ML20128N564

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Transcript of Interview of Jt Hanze on 820701 Re Allegations.Pp 1-17
ML20128N564
Person / Time
Site: Palo Verde  Arizona Public Service icon.png
Issue date: 07/01/1982
From: Hanze J
BECHTEL GROUP, INC.
To:
Shared Package
ML20079P594 List:
References
FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030324
Download: ML20128N564 (18)
v • d • e


Text

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. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 5

In the matter of:

. Interview of: John T. Hanze

Docket No.

i 1

'l - 17 -

Pages:

. Location:

L' ' Date: July 1, 1982.

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TAYLOE ASSOCIATES l Court Reporters 8506030324 831110 PDR FOIA 1625 I Street. N.W. Suite 1004 BERNADEB3-A-9 PDR Wahington. D.C. 20006 *

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.--UNITED: STATES-OF AMERICA

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',; Interview of John:T. Hanze L. :8 .

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July'1, 1982 ,

12 Palo: Verde. Nuclear Station? '

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Investi'gators: E. J'. Power x

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Owen Shacklet'on 4-

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'* 12-151 _P ._R._ O .C _E _E' _D _I _N _G -

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- .. 2' INVbSTIGATOR: This is an interview of Mr. John T.

[' 3, - Hanze. -Mr;'Hanze.is a_ level 2-QC engineer, employed by the

?4. 'Bechtel Power Corporation,.at the Palo Verde Nuclear-

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.<.- y, 5t ' Gen'erating(yStation. g, gg fA-6 1 'This;$nterview.is1 . taking place on July l', 1982',

.s t L l7 a'nd'th'e" interview beg'an at 9120 a.m. Present'to' conduct this'intervie,w fromr.the 33; ,  ;~. _; +~

_ Nuclear Regulatory Commission

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[9' 'is Mr. E. J. Power, Investigator, and myself, Owen T.

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i  : Hackletbn', Investigator. . Both,of us are assigned'to

. Region'5, in Walnut. Creek, California', of the U. S. Nuclear

- 12 iRegulatory Commission.

_ 13 ' Prior-to. recording-this. interview, I explained F' , - 14 to Mr'. Hanze the Federal statutes'that apply to persons; -

15 ~ giving testimony to'the-Fe'deral Government under oath, and-16 Mr..Hanze agreed to give us testimony under' oath, and was .

.17 placed under oath by rae.-

e' 18 - Mr. Hanze, do you have objection to us tape

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19 recording this interviaw?

20 MR. HANZE: 'No, I do_not.

4

~21 -

' INVESTIGATOR: Allsright, thank you. John, what

, 22 ' :If ank going to do is go over a-list of concerns that have 1

23 been given to us, and get your comments. What your

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24- experience andLobservations have' been since you have been j f- '

)N 25 1 working here at Palo Verde. Could you tell us presently b

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?

____1__________.___.______.____.___________[.___________.__

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- ~- ~3 12-16'-1 what your' assignment is. Are you working on terminations,

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[ )2: or> cable' pulling?

-L MR. HANZE: Cable: pulling and terminations.

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'n i - -Both ~ of them?

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5 .MR. HANZE: Ba'sically.I'have been working --

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((INVESTIGAbR:J(Knockatdoor) 3 ,

Come in.

i~ f cf7,MR. HANZE,:T I:-work terminations i.;j,Cable pulling.

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8 you know, when.I have'the time. Basically,~it is cable-

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10 INVESTIGATOR: John,'in working on. terminations,1 i

11 ' have you worked then with: termination parts?'

12 . MR .' ~ HANZE: (inaudible) .

.. i 13 INVESTIGATOR: John,_do you know -- have you- -

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. 14 observed,-' heard::or.-in any way gained knowledge that the' O - .

i 15 ' wiremen,.the e.lectricians, the craft people, have been told:

,  : ?.( 16 . by--anyone'tofsign'a termination card'for work they did not' 17 perform?

18 .MR. HANZE: I-have not.

i- 19 INVESTIGATOR: Gene, do you'have any questions 20 in that li'ne?

n 21 INVESTIGATOR: Are you aware of any new 22- .

termination cards prepared in the. event'that one-was lost 23 - or misplaced, and so'.forth, and you went back-to the' l .

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' 24 - craftsman (inaudible).

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25 .MR. HANZE: .No, I have no personal knowledge.

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^ INVESTIGATOR: Do you feel, from your. observations .

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N< w 27 fin working.:with the wiremen, that they are not. intimidated- '

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' N,o,anot the ones I.have worked with.

~ a f p Ly A,, ; 'g., . f: , y ,1 y - 5 ' INVESTIGATOR: Do they appear to you.in.yourL ~

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'o'bAerva.tions;thah they havenh adequa.te . time:to-perform their.

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wt 4 g jp.;g .4. t 73. , y. ; g , .tr 5- - '8: MR..HANZE: Yes, .they do.

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, -9. INVESTIGATOR: How would1you classify.the qualityj

- 110 - '~of: work that youlare seeing-the/ electricians perform?'

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11 MR.'HANZE: ~I feel.it isagood qualityT. work.- The-

-onesIfhave1 worked withthave;done their job.well.

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J'i ' {13T INVESTIGATOR: John,1since you have been on: ^

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-board:here, have you ever' observed or heard of in a Cla'ss Q~

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Lcabling being-damaged.either by~ welding slag-lor in'anyJ.other

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=.16 ; lway,7 and then be'ing repaired ;witilout - QC' being :present , = or.

ithe-proper. documentation bei'ng'pr'epared?

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. < 18  ;MR. HANZE: No, I' haven't.

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, -INVESTIGATOR: Any.other method of damage.

,j 20; Have' you observed or witnessed the repair of any cable flike

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' " 21 ~ .that. ClassLQ-cable. .

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23 . -

INVESTIGATOR: John, what is~your knowledge,of.

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24. splicingEof' Class Q cable. If a wireman came to;you and 50g e 25- said he-.had to.' splice some Class Q cable, what would be l'-

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.12 -18 Lt.. your;' response?:

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, And.where-do you get this' 5'- direction.e from,+, John?

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7 J.! !J INVESTIGATOR: 'In other words,'what you.are E 8 - telling the Commission is that you have written procedures 9 --

.a. 10' s MR. HANZE: 'I-have written procedures that says 11

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a class-Q' cable will no't be spliced.

12 INVESTIGATOR:' Have you. ever: heard of a' situation l} .

13/ here at Unit 1, specifically_in a manhole outside-of-the

. 14 . spray pond _where a wireman-has been directed by his

15 - . supervision to splace. Class Q cable?

1 16 -

MR. HANZE: I have no-knowledge of that.

17 INVESTIGATOR: John,:in working-out on the I 18 site and in the observations and experience that you have 18

, had, 'have you come across any ' situations,- or know of any y 20 -

situations, where cables have been properly terminated, 21' and then brought off by QC, signed off by the c' raft,

- 221 and-thenithey come back later and find it'has been de- -1

.'l 23' terminated, and it may not be connected, or it may have been l 24 re-terminated, but not done in as neat of a fashion as

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'it was-originally performed?

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6 12-191 MR. HANZE: Will you shut that thing off for 2 a minutes.

3 INVESTIGATOR: Sure. (Tape recorder stopped) 4 INVESTIGA' TOR: .While we were off tape, Mr.

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l 5 Hanze requested that.I clarify my question, and in 6

summary his response is that he has no firsthand knowledge, 7

having witnessed any determinations beig made by anyone 8

other than urmar proper documentation and proper procedure.

9 Is that correct, Mr.~Hanze?

10 MR. HANZE: That is right. Right.

11 INVESTIGATOR: John, we have an allegation 12 concerning the type of insulating material used on some

(]) 13 of the termingtions, and I am afraid probably it happened 14 prior to your coming on board, because you came on board 15 in August of 1981. But there was a period of time which 16 we have established by fact, that they were using -- the 17 electricians were using a material called Scotch Fill 2200 18 on the terminations, and it was found that this material, 19 due to the high temperatures that we have out here in the M

desert, in Palo Verde, that this material was melting and 21 secreting'its fluids down onto the cabling. '

22 And then they changed approximately a year ago 23 to a material called 130C. Are you familiar with what 24 I am talking about?

U MR. HANZE: No. Here again, basically -- I have 1 <

12-20 1 heard of it, but I am not basically familiar with it.

O 2 INVESTIGATOR: John, you car:e on board here as 3

3 an older person compared to a lot of the young men that 4 are here, an'd have a lot of' years of experience in d

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5 construction work. Ilowever , this was your first quality 6 control-type position,, is that correct?

7 MR. !!ANZE : That is correct.

8 N

INVESTIGATOR: Will you tell us what type of -

j 9 training you were given when you came aboard in August of 10 1981? 1 11 MR. IIANZE: I was taken through by George Palmara, J

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12 and given training for approximately six weeks in. race ways. p 8

O 13 And I was taken over by cable pull, and worked under Bill y s

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Burdick for approximately six weeks in cable pull.

15 INVESTIGATOR: Did you have a period of time I 16 4

where you were given documentation procedures to study? l 17 MR. IIANZE: Yes. During this period, we basically [

i 18 worked mornings in'the field, and afternoons we would work I 19 i

in the office meeting (inaudible) procedures, j 20 INVESTIGATOR: In your opinion, did you feel 21 4 that by the time you were released to work on your own that -

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22 you had been adequately trained?

23 i MR. IIANZE : I basically feel I was adequately { i 24 trained in my job.  ?

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INVESTIGATOR: Did you have any kind of seminars, i

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8 12-211 or meetings, or updating, or refresher courses, or anything O 2 of that nature that you got on board?

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MR. HANZE: Yeah, we have had updating on like 4 DCPs, SWPs , a .id start-up work.

l 5 -INVESTIGATOR: John, would you explain. A lot 6 ofipeople. don't understand what DCP stands for?

7 MR. HANZE: Design change procedures.

8 INVESTIGATOR: And the other you gave us?

9 MR. HANZE: Start up work permit.

10 INVESTIGATOR: That SWP is start-up work permit.

11 John, you have been out in the field for approximately a 12 year here. Do you feel that you, as an inspector, are 13 able to operate freely without any intimidation from the 14 crafts or from the craft management?

15 MR. IRNZE: Yes.

16 INVESTIGATOR: You have no -- you have suffered 17 no bad experiences when you have tried to enforce -- I don't 18 know if you have ever hung any red tags.

19 MR. HANZE: None.

20 1NVESTIGATOR: You feel your relationship, then,

.1 with the crafts has been satisfactory?

a2 MR. HANZE: I do.

23 INVESTIGATOR: ' John, have you participated in 24 any hapotic (phonetic) testing?

MR. HANZE: No, I have not.

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e 3121221" . INVESTIGATOR: Have you observed or heard of.

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([ _ 2) Hapotic'~ testing;whereiit has.been1 conducted:in excess on-23- Jane: individual cable?'

MR.:HANZE: No', ._ I ' have not.

4 5 -

. INVESTIGATOR: What_is-_your* understanding, Joh'n?

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6 Have lyou ;hadlany training-in. hapoting,-; or- what is required?

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7 -MR. HANZE: -I.'have: read procedures. I don't; -4 M

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like I basically (said
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q 9 pullingesince the say.I went;in the field.. .I just really

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10 haven't had a chance to get back to some of this~ stuff.

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,  : 12 fpr;  : INVESTIGATOR:0 Well, the important thing'is you

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.--- if you' got into it, you would know where to go toLlook j; v-

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l 9, 15 MR. HANZE: Yes.

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16  : INVESTIGATOR: Okay. John,.in cableapulling, l

17 '- back in what you are more familiar with,'because you are .

P L 118 [ working with it daily, do you know of.any circumstances ~

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' u 19 'where cables nave been damaged either by the. dropping of.

.20. :a_ welding slag or byrany.other_possible accident, and the-121 reables have been repaired ~in place without QC.being-

' 22 - . advised, or engineering being advised, or proper _documenta-f'

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1) ution being prepared?

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MR. HANZE: No, I do not.

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25f INVESTIGATOR: What normally happens, John, when.

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interest is=in the quality,. safety-related cable. . hha,t . . -

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3 ;happens,: Jolin, cwhen a cable ~.is.-damaged. What is.the proper-4 ~ procedure?- _

5
MR. IIANZE: TheVproper procedure is writing-

, 6'- an NCR.against the cable,~and have itltaken out.

v- 7, EINVESTIGATOR: Are you authorized as a'QC

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inspector,fcan'you write an.NCR?-

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fMis6HANZE: '1 "certainly ; can ' .

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. INVESTIGATOR:

And on_your non-performance v: .,

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7 -report,:if'you were to write i one and it is found not to be<

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legitiimatie,; sis tit ;still^ maintained .as a record here on I.

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th'is site?

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'MR . IIANZE : Yes.

J5 INVESTIGATOR: So you are telling me that every, 16- 'NCR, then, becomes a'. matter of documentation for.the 17 construction record, t

18 MR. HANZE: Right. '

19

INVESTIGATO% We are going to stop just for a

'# ' minute here..while I change tapes.

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21 12-B This is a continuation of the interview of Mr.

22'

-Hanze.

23 John ~, have you ever been involved.in the; quality 24 f'Iv -

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control inspection, where the men -- the crafts are using conduit,iand_they are coming into some. type of a junction I.

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11 12-24 1 box, or a control panel, where the conduit has some kind 2 of a slip joint with threads, and they use an 0-Ring, and 3- the O-Ring is to give the: fitting water-tight integrity.

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4 Have you been involved in.any installations like that?

5 MR. HANZE: (Inaudible)'

6 INVESTIGATOR: The next issue I want to address, 7 John, is the situation where we have core drilling,.which 8' is frequently done in a plant like this where they have to' 9 make new penetrations.

10 MR. HANZE: I.have no experience in core drillings.

11 INVESTIGATOR: Do you know of any. situation where 12 there has'been core drilling, and they have accidentally 13 ' damaged the conduit?

s _

14 MR. HANZE: No, I have no knowledge of that.

15 INVESTIGATOR: Where.they have drilled into the i

16 wall, and hit conduit.

17 MR..HANZE: No.

18 INVESTIGATOR: Wasn't there one --

19 INVESTIGATOR: (Inaudible) received information 20 that you might have possibly observed something that 21 occurred'down on the main steam building.

22 MR. HANZE: I don't know who said that, but no,,

M I have no knowledge of --

24 INVESTIGATOR: It would be the 74 foot or the s

25 100 foot elevation.

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Nf' ' 2. . INVESTIGATOR: ;Right.

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3: MR.-HANZE: In'which unit?

, i INVESTIGATOR: Unit 1.

5 . INVESTIGATOR: There was a conduit 1that was hit 6l jby -- .

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MR.-HANZE: 'Now, I'have. pulled.a lot of cable

'8 in~there. '

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19 INVESTIGATOR: s 'No, you weren't involved'in it.-

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10 You:were_!just present.; ',

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11 MR. HANZE: Present at the time? No, not to

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D _13 . standing there, nobody said anything to me at the time, J

so-I have no knowledge of it. I don't_ remember ever:

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- 15) - anybody_ ever . core drillirig at- the time we were' down there.

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16- INVESTIGATOR: This would haveapproximately.

17. six or seven months ago.-

- 18 MR. HANZE: We were pulling down:on the' main 19 ' ' steam'then, at Unit 1. But as farTas me being there at i

< - 20 the-time that it happened --

21- ,

. INVESTIGATOR: We don't mean-when it happened.

22 You.just learned of it. It was in the. basement, between

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23 the-containment and~the turbine building.

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p; 24 MR. HANZE: 'No, I have no knowledge.

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25 INVESTIGATOR: Why I am<asking;you about this-s T

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i is that we.have a'n' allegation, John, about some damaged

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conduit, Jand we .are tirying- tof find 'it, and'the people, I

. 6 ?3T Ithe names.that'we have been able.to~ pick,up by investigation,

[4 -:we have.not.yet been able.to identify'it.:  ; Do y'ou know

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.of'any-el.ectrician by thelname'of.'JerryLStuart?

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J.MR. .HANZE: 'I have no knowled .

g e of a Jerry-- Stuart'. :

, 1 70- ' INVESTIGATOR: Bill Williams?

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8 -INVESTIGATOR: Bob' Lunk?

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-MR. HANZE:

2 No.

13 INVESTIGATOR: Okay. Those: names are not (v. .

~ 14 ' familiarL to you.- Okay.

'E :15 MR. HANZE:

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I con'.t know where they1got my name. , ,

. 116' INVESTIGATOR: During'this period.of time that.

4

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117 .you werel observing thel cable pull, which crew was doing

. 18 the. cable pulling at-this'. time?

19 MR. HANZE: Bob Horn was the lead. .. James Anglin, 20 I believe his name is,.was the foreman., He was.the cable' 21 pulling foreman. Like.I said, most of.my work was in f i

22 J

. cable pulling.

23 - INVESTIGATOR: Do'you know whether or not M_ ' 24

-(inaudible) is still around?

  • N)' 25 :

J MR. HANZE: I understood -- now this has been four 1

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u- .12-27i:1! _ months ago',{I think,.or five --:I understood.they went to v s s>

t-2 '2 23. .I dont icnow if.they;arestill down there orEnot. '

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Si Like I say, I am out-in this field'most of the 4 time'andJI don't have time'to roam;around.

5 - INVESTIGATOR: ~ John, have'you' worked in Onit 2 61 at" any :. time. -

75 '

MR.lHANZEi I'am working. Unit 2 right now.

  • '8- f,I .;haveybaen 7 work i..w cin Unit;-2 since the latter part of A a .3.

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What; elevations have;you 11' ' worked ~in primarily?gcAllaover?-

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12 . , MR. HANZE: I.just finished the_same pull that;

.V 13 you were referring;to that I was on in the main steam in'

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14 . Unit.1. A'pproximately;between sixty and seventy thousand

< ~ 15 - feet'of~ cable.

~16 4 INVESTIGATOR: John, the-next concern I want.-

17 .toLaddress,.and-I am not asking you-if you have_ firsthand'

~18' ' knowledge,-but have you heard of it; we have been told"

-that down in the-lower elevations in that area there has

{19 J 20 - .been some problems in the working-relationship between

'21 the' craf t and some of their foremen, and also between sonie

~

22 of tho' craft' and some of the QC inspectors. Arid what' is.

23 allegedly being done, is you have these (inaudible) brackets

' . jg . 24 ' lthat.: support the cable trays and=also support the piping.

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_ 25 Do-you know what I.am talking'about?

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.,. 12i-28L [1) fMR.LHANZE: ^ Yeah.s -

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, INVESTIGATOR: ' I. haven't been'down there, but..I am e ', .,

You

~

3'  : told.these unit struts are. welded to embedded; plates.

1 .4 - thave probably seenL-them as.you walked;around. .

'5^ MR. HANZE: Yeah. "

J6. The c allegation::is that-_because

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i V ; J :? F INVESTIGATOR:i

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7~ -ofnthe;anomositys.that-has_builtuup between-som'e of these.-

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grotips ,Ethat~some; of thel.craf tsmen are - disengaging some' 'of '

'9' . thel uniditrtitis hndi pNting them 'on in a . fashion that :is lnot'the'way they-were designed-after they have been. bought-

, s lo 11- 6ff,by QC.

c. 12. '

And the reason being: is - to get the_'QC inspectors - ,

. y 113 a firedi:lorlthe foreman in trouble.- Have!you.: heard!of any-

^14 '

' stories like this? , ,

'15 : . MR. HANZEi No', I havent heard anything like.

16- 'that. They probably wouldn't'say'anything'to'me, because..

+ ,

17 -I would probably jump all over ' them. LikeI said, I 1 ave -

~

'18,

no Anowledge of that.

~ ' '

519

~

-INVESTIGATOR: You by chance don't happen to

'know.a-Richard Hamlin, do you?.

- 20 I i

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21- MR'. HANZE: Richard who?

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, . 22 J INVESTIGATOR: Richard -- it looks-like

, :q s k ,, . 23 - H-a-m-o.-1-i'-n . <

i-No..

. ~_ 3 24 'MR. HANZE:

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, ( , 25' , INVESTIGATOR: Someone told us they tho'ught you P'

sa

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- 16 Il'2-291, 1. '

might have T been aware --

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..%# 2'  ;MR..HANZE: "Like-I said,"~I may.have been in the

,, ' I (building at the time:when:it happened,.I' don't.know.- But' s4 L whether :I was1actually ~ at the' level .where :it happened - -

'54 I: don't know, does;it give"the level there? 'I.~wa's,up'and -

,m ;ty 7 .

y ,. 4 I6 .do'wid fromi.tlie dbo.ttomi flooriof ~ that place'. to the - top floor,

~Imayjhaves been'ini:the; building ~at the time,butlIlh' ave so;I 7=

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_' 8- no ' knowledge of .. (inaudibl'e) .

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"g- vte. i m INV'ESk'IGATOR:'. = Th$ l'ast -issue I want"to' address v '10: John'is.one that we'facelall~'over the United' States,fand .

~ -

s it;.is:a--big problem, andJit has nothing to do with

, 11 12 ' construction'directly, but.it is'the use of controlled j.a

' drugs,on1 site, and the allegation,is~that the'use'of

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13

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14 "cirugs outt here is ; exceedingly high. Have you, in the year 15 .you; have 'been on 'sihe, have you' observed theLuse of- >

16.: ' Marijuana or any of the other well?known drugs like-hashish-17 ---

'18 MR._HANZE: I will.be, honest with you:and say..I

- 19 - have heard about"it, but I have not seen'it.

207 INVESTIGATOR: -No one has approached.you.to' sell. i 21- 'you anything?

p. .

22 ~ .MR. HANZE: No way.

- 23 INVESTIGATOR: Have you smelled Marijuana' smoke-

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24 t in the work areas.

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MR. HANZE: I have not.

25 . ,

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-;12-30' 1- . INVESTIGATOR: IGene, ~ I . have no further questi~ons. -

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N/ :~ ,

221 MR. HANZE:.. J 'To-tell:you theJtruth,.I: don't'know. . _

. s 13 (if I would knoweit if'I~sm'elled it. -

!4- INVESTIGATOR: ' ' Most of;these. drugs are used by- .

-teenagers up to-about-age'. thirty.' ?By that-time the monkey.

~

-o, 5- - - -

i6 }would"seem to learn theirEle'ssonjguick. ,

John,'.in. summary,'h'ow would you characterize

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- 7,' J

,u 3 -the. work you-have-observed goingfon here in'Palo_' Verde.. <

9 MR.:HANZE: 'The work that I have observed; I

. .- I 10-  ; feel, _. is. -up- to - qua'lity._ standards . -

,' .' 11 - INVESTIGATOR: John,.we_thank;you very.much

, s 12 : .for your-patiencedin bearing with.us and: assisting us in. ,

ltryingitb: resolve. issues thatz-have been given to us,:and 4

[). w. .

- - S .-'

[13 - _

2

- 14 - we will' bring'thisiinterview to a close.:

a- .

p 15 - The time!is-now,approximately 9:48 a .m: and .

-l16 ' the datie is Julycl', 1982.

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