ML20128N407
| ML20128N407 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/28/1982 |
| From: | Sandoval J BECHTEL GROUP, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20079P594 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030266 | |
| Download: ML20128N407 (15) | |
Text
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34c) b g g 1982 INTERVIEW OF JOE G. SANDOVAL Case No.:
5-82-009 Transcript of tape recorded interview of:
Joe G. SANDOVAL Date of Interview:
June 28, 1982 Interviewers:
Eugene J. POWER and Owen C. SHACKLETON'Jr..
Investigators assigned to Region V, U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Purpose of Interview:
To obtain SANDOVAL's responses to allegations made by Robert D. GUNDERSON Jr., electrician, who fomerly worked on Unit-1, PVNGS, in one of the electrical termination crews-Location of Interview:
NRC Resident Inspector's Office in the Arizona Public Service Construction at the PVNGS Conditions of Interview:
Interview was' conducted with SANDOVAL under oath l
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INTERVIEW WITH SAhTOVAL June 28, 1982 SHACKLETON:
This is an interview with Mr. Joe G. SANDOVAL, Mr. SANDOVAL is a Foreman, Electrical, presently working for Bechtel Power Corporation at the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating S tation. This interview is taking place on June 28, 1982, and the time now is approximately 9:47 a.m.
Present to conduct this interview from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission is Mr. Eugene J. POWER and myself, Owen C. SHACKLETON.
Mr. POWER and myself are Investigators from Region V of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Co= mission.
Mr. SANDOVAL, do'we have your permission to conduct this interview on tape?
SANDOVAL:
Yes.
SKACKLETON:
Mr. SANDOVAL, I understand that you would like to have a copy of the transcript of this tape, is that correct?
SAhTOVAL:
Yes.
SEACKLETON:
0.K.
We will provide that to you as soon as our girls get it typed and we will mail it to your home. Now Joe, I vant to proceed on with our questioning and our questioning is based on,a list of allegations that were given to us, and the first one concerned the termination cards that your men complete after they connect cabling, which we refer to as terminations, and what we are trying to find out in this regald is the practices that are being followed by foremen and management in getting these cards filled out, and specifically the problem area that has been identified to us is when, through one way or another, a card gets lost and the work has been done, and what do you do then? What is the normal procedure that you follow?
SANDOVAL:
When the termination is done, the card is sent in and they lose it.
Sometimes we will find a card and other times we...
_ SHACKLETON:
The way I understand what happens, Joe, maybe to refresh your memory, is when a card is lost at engineering, as I understand, it comes up with another card and asks to get it fi}1ed out or gives it to the foreman.
SAMDOVAL:
Well, yes, but that is right, and then we go on and check
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l termination, you know, and if it is made according to the card, we check the terminations if anything is with the card, I believe, sign it off by him.
SHACKLETON:
You say we - now how do you handle that yourself? What do you do?
SANDOVAL:
What I do, they give me the card and then I will assign one of the men to it. -This card was lost and I was going to find its location to see that the termination that has been done is the same as the card and if it is, sign off.-
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
Now when you ask him to check the work and see if it has been done, according to what has been indicated on the card and sign'it off, now he signs what, his name?
SANDOVAL:
Yes, but another thing - with the new card - since we
.take a tool with us with a number on it, sometimes we.will cut the lugs, reterminate, so we can have a tool number on thi's new card.
SHACKLETON:
0.K., so what you are saying is that when they go back and take a look at it and if'the work has already been completed, you are cutting it loose again and taking the crimping tool that the workman has and he recrimps it and then when he signs the card, he puts his name, his badge number, and his crimping tool number.-
SANDOVAL:
Right. So there are tides that if we don't use a tool at all, we got a number that we just check the termination if it's done according to that card and it's in a workman-like manner, we dot a number.
When we don't use a tool at all, which is...
1 SHACKLETON:
You have a codg number, don't you?
l POWER:
What number is that?
l SANDOVAL:
B-9999.
POWER:
From whom do you receive new cards?
SANDOVAL:
Well, from our supervisor, from oar superintendent, I mean, and then they go over to'our General Foreman and our General Foreman...
POWER:
Who aye the individuals' names, now who are they? Who is your superintendent?
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.. SANDOVAL:
Reggie JOHNSON is the Superintendent and Hector NUNEZ is our General Foreman '...
' POWER:
How do you decide what electrician is going to go look at the previously installed termination?
SANDOVAL:
Well, whoever is available at the time. Sometimes everybody is out in the field and I keep my cards there on the table and the first guy that comes along, I will just hand him the card...
POWER:
How many termination cards have you got that would have to be done over?
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SANDOVAL:
Not too many.
POWER:
How many is not too many?
SHACKLETON:
What would you guess? Just a guess.
By your experience.
POWER:
Do you get one a day, four a month...
~SANDOVAL:
Maybe offhand I would say maybe half a dozen a week p
maybe, maybe there are weeks when we don't~get any.
POWER:
How do you know they are new cards from previously done.
work?
i SANDOVAL:
Well, because if we don t, there are times when we get a new card, any card, and'we will go out and find the termination already done.
So what we do, like I said, we shape it up, or if we have to, we cut them off and...
POWER:
So, in other words, from the card you can't make a determination - it's just like any other.
SANDOVAL:
Right.
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i POWER:
0.K.,
so someone has to go look at it?
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh. Check it out.
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POWER:
Have you ever had situations where you give it to an electrician to look at and he declined to perform the work?
s SANDOVAL:
No.
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POWER:
Has anyone ever given a card back to you saying, "I don't l
want to sign the card - that is absolute."?
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SANDOVAL:
Well now.-sometimes he will say that this is already done l,
' (unintelligible) like you have 'done it.
You checked it out and it's in accordance with the card (unintelligible).
r-POWER:-
Has anyone ever refused to?
SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
We have sworn testimony of other individuals that you l_
have asked the individual to fill out the card and he has l
declined to do it.
You can't recall any situation like' that?
SANDOVAL:
Well, I mean,' like I say, he will say, well I can do it.
But you checked it out, didn't you? Yes. And it's in accordance with the card? Yeah. Just go ahead and sign i
it off because we have to send the signed card in.
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POWER:
Yeah right, but have you ever had anyone that, even th'ough they checked it out, did not want to sign the card?
' SANDOVAL:
Not confused completely, no.
Like I say, he will say, no, no, but I say well you have to, I mean-you checked it out.
POWER:
Is that acc'erding to procedure; do you have a procedure requirement for putting out cards for work that have been
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completed'and terminated and then the card is lost?
SANDOVAL:
Well, yeah, because like I said we have got...
POWER:
No... are there written instructions relative'to that?
SANDOVAL:
No, no.
POWER:
But you have never had an individual give you back a card L.
and basically refuse to sign it?
SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Everyone generally goes along with it?
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- SANDOVAL:
Yeah, uh-huh.
POWER:
To the best of your knowledge'then, there is nothing
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vrong with that system?
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SANDOVAL:
No.
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See, the problem that arises, some people have said that
'there is_ falsification.of these records and that is the reason we are asking the questionsaof a lot of people like E
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yourself, trying to find out what they. mean or if there is validity-in what they-are saying. You see,'what happens,.
Joe. is.somebody did the work say on one termination'and then.somehow,' for reasons've don't know, the card got lost.
and now another card comes to you and you go check it and the work is done, and then you ask the workman, an electrician, to look at it and he looks-at it, and you i
.tell him to sign it off now he didn't cut it.
What we
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' are getting to is-a situation, what. I am asking of you, is '
where th'ay don't cut it and use their own crimping tool but just look at it, and. then sign it off, have you ever
' asked them to do.fhat?
SANDOVAL:
Like.I said, he checked it out and didn't use his tool on t
it.
Some other individual-did it in a nica manner and-he'll put this tool number like B-9999...
SHACKLETON:
-0.K., but would you use that tool number or code number l'
when there was a crimping tool used by someone else - see
'8 one guy did it...
SANDOVAL:
Yeah...
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SEACKLETON:
... and we don't know who now 'cause time has past on and l
the card is lost. Now, you have's second man come and look at it.
SANDOVAL -
But like I said, we usually ask him to go ahead and cut it, reterminate, and then, and then,'use his tool.
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SEACKLETON:
Have you had occasions where that has occurred that you know of?
SANDOVAL:
No, not even if you are not supposed to put a crimping tool number on it if he didn't terminate it, you know.
SKACKLETON:
0.K., Gene, do I understand correctly.
What I understand Joe saying is even though it had been crimped by another tool...
- POWER:
They just use the number B-9999.
SHACKLETON:
Is that correct Joe, am I understanding you right? -
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
SKACKLETON:
But there was a crimping tool used at one time?
0.K.,
and I think one of the problems, Joe, that we are finding out is that you have no procedure to handle when a card is lost. There is nothing in writing. There is no procedure to handle it when it has been lost, and so different I
foremen have done things in different ways...
SAND 0 VAL:
Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON:
... to try and handle this situation and this is where I think some of these allegations are coming.
POWER:
In reference to that, have you indicated that no one has ever, you know, declined not to do it? Are you aware of it ever occurring to any other foreman or Superintendent or General Foreman that someone did not want to do it -
right -
Y SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Have you ever heard of anyone being threatened or pressured into it or they are going to lose their job?
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SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Are you aware of any situation where individuals,
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although they have executed termination cards, the new termination cards, they were actually doing them under protest?
SANDOVAL:
~No.
POWER:
Are you' aware of any termination card that has ever been given to an electrician that was already signed by a name and they were told to go look at the work? The card is already completed...
r SANDOVAL:',
-Uh-huh.
POWER:
... but they were sent back to'look at it anyway?
SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Are you aware of any entries of false signatures on the card?
SANDOVAL:
No.
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t SHACKLETON:
Where someone has written another man's name...
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"-SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
0.K., have you ever been' directed by your management,.
either from your General Foreman or from your Superintendent to have ydur men sign off termination cards for work they didn't perform?
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SANDOVAL:
No; o
SRACKLETON:
You never have?
-SANDOVAL:
No.
L POWER:
I have one more question.. When you get some of the new cards for work previously done, is there any research - I l
understand you now have a record available... (tape runs
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out) l-POWER:
(Continuing on next tape)... now to practica... just to l
make p.. you do~now?
SANDOVAL:
- Yes, i
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N POWER:
You do now?
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- SANDOVAL:
Yes.
, POWER:
Do.you go back to the research, that book when you...
SANDOVAL:
Yeah.
i POWER:
Now, why don't you extract that information and put it on the new card and somewhere indicate on the card someone has gone out and checked the work that was previously
' installed by whoever was here at the time?
SANDOVAL:
(No response is heard on tape)
POWER:
I's.not saying that is the way to do it, I am just asking
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why it's not done that way so the original crimping tool and the name of the original installer.is not used - any
, reason, do you know?
SANDOVAL:
No.
Like I say, we don't get too many cards like that and when I do, I go back and try to see who done it.
POWER:
Who did it? You give it back to them?
i SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh, yeah. Because it's easier because they know just where it is and they always know time (unintelligible) and blueprint (unintelligible).
It doesn't take long.
i POWER:
You've got the tape going?
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SRACKLETON:
Yeah.
It's working. Joe, we will go on with this list.
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Have you, in your experience here, ever witnessed any l
splicing of cables that have been damaged without getting l
engineering or QC' involved?'
SAND 0 VAL:'
No.
j SEACKLETON:
And your. response is no?
. SANDOVAL:
Say that again, now. Come again.
SHACKLETON:
Have you ever witnessed, uh, any splicing of cables l
without QC or engineering being involved? What I am l
talking about, Joe, is we have an allegation with some cables that were damaged by welding slag dropping down on the w[ng a new cable, the allegation is that some type of elding tray and rather than pulling the cable and runn repair kit was used and the damaged cable was repaired at l'
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.- that point and QC wasn't advised, engineering wasn't called in, and no paperwork was made up.
SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
You know of no incidents like that?
SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
Allright. Have you or your men had any problems with -
i after you put - you make a termination and.it has been bought off and then your men come back maybe to work in
.j the area again later and find the termination,has been determinated by someone and may not have been put back properly or may not have been reterminated?
SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
No problems with'startup taking apart your terminations, then?
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SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
0.E.
We have an allegation relating to the insulating i
materials that are used and we understand that you used, l
up until approximately a year ago, a material called Scotch Field 22007 I
SANDOVAL:
Yeah.
j SHACKLETON:
And then, uh, an order came out to discontinue using that l
and use 130 C.
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON:
Did you have a retro-fit program at that time, Joe? Did you have to go back and have your men re-do the work that had been done with the Scotch Field 22007' SANDOVAL:
Well, there was, uh, some that the heat, you know, well... I don't know...
l SHACKLETON:
... cause the material to run?
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
I remember some.
We'had some at the water treatment plant that we had to re-do on account of that.
That,is about all - only once I ever remember that we had to re-do with new tape.
POWER:
Did you ever supervise the high-voltage termination crew?
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SANDOVAL:
No, no.
POWER:
No?
0.K.
This is not directly yours then?
SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Yeah.
What crew do you have specifically?
SEACKLETON:
Just a termination crew?
SANDOVAL:
Yeah.
On small terminations mostly.
Once in a while, we get a QC termination, I mean, nuclear related, but very seldom and motors - low voltage motors.
POWER:
Basically none safety-related.
SANDOVAL:
Yeah, yeah, mostly.
SHACKLETON:
Joe, we have an allegation concerning when your men run a... connect a field cable with a two-bolt lug on it and they have to tie it into some type of connection - maybe a packerhead on a notor - it's only got a one-bolt and the allegation was that what has been going on out here in many cases is that two-bolt lugs have been fastened to a one-bolt lug and a bolt is being placed through the second hole to make it look like it's a two-bolt connection.
"-SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
Do you know of anything'like that?
SANDOVAL:
No..
8 SHACKLETON:
Allright.
POWER:
But you wouldn't normally get involved with that anyway, right? That would normally be a high-voltage termination?
SANDOVAL:
Well, uh, like we say, we have done motors 350,000 but they are not nuclear related, you know, and we have used a lot of lugs before but I have never seen anything like that done.
SHACKLETON:
(Pause) Joe, I think with 38 years of experience, and of course I realize that on nucle'ar projects you have closer controls on quality probably than anything else, that you have pver worked on, uh, do you feel that your quality I
control inspectors here are able to do their job without any problems from construction supervision?
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SANDOVAL:
Yeah, I believe they can.
Yeah.
SHACKLETON:
Do you feel that in line with the same questioning that construction is not overriding quality control people?
You are shaking your head no, is that right?
SANDOVAL:
Right.
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
The tape cannot see you.
That is the reason why I repeated it.
SANDOVAL:
What do you mean by overriding?
SHACKLETON:
Well, what I am talking about, we have an allegation where a QC inspector hung a red tag...
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON:
... and he thought he had a valid reason to put that red red tag up there and stop the work until there was some corrective action taken, and in the particular case, reportedly the foreman came along and told him to get it the hell off there and the young fellow was not going to fight with an old experienced foreman, so he took it off even though he didn't really feel it was right.
SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
Are your people involved in high potting? Doing some his,h pot testing?
'SANDOVAL:
Uh, no.-
SHACKLETON:
We have an allegation that there has been some excessive high potting on some cables and the reason the concern l
was made was that we have been told the Anaconda cable -
l that Anaconda has specifications with the cable that says that they only guarantee the cable for one high pot test.
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON:
and we have an allegation that there haven't been good records maintained of the high potting and in some i
instances, there has been high potting two and three times or more on the same cable.
Have you ever observed anything like that?
s SANDOVAL:
No, I haven't.
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SHACKLETON:
(Pause) The'next area, Joe, concerns the use of "O" rings, and bear with my ignorance because I don't know the proper terminology, but I understand that conduit, when it is run down and it comes into a control panel or motor control center or some type of a junction box, that they have a fitting that is on the end of the conduit that is threaded so that it bolts down and they have a washer
.they call an "O" ring that goes in there to make it water tight.
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
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SHACKLETON:
Do your people work with anything like that?
SANDOVAL:
No.
I haven't bedn involved with that at all.
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
Now we have an allegation that there was a period of time when Unit 1, for about six months - I guess in this past year when they didn't have any "O" rings. For some reason there weren't any, and the men were told to go ahead and run the piping anyway, and it was done without the use of "0" rings.
SANDOVAL:
No, I have no knowledge of that because I was never involved in that.
SHACKLETON:
The next area concerns where the men sometimes have to make a core drilling through a wall to run a conduit and reportedly, in some cases, when they have done the drilling, they have hit the conduit, existing conduit, and have done damage to it and then it has to be repaired.
SANDOVAL:
Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON:
Are you aware of any circumstances like that?
SANDOVAL:
No.
POWER:
Do you know who does their core drilling?
SANDOVAL:
Some company.
I see their trucks around. They do the core drilling.
I don't POWER:
Who is that, do you know offhand?
SANDOVAL:
No, I don't.
I have seen some trucks here but I never paid f.ny attention who the company is.
SHACKLETON:
Joe, if this did occur, and you got damaged conduit, then
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o who has the responsibility to fix it?
Is the repair work done by one of your crews or one of Bechtel's crews or...
SANDOVAL:
Well, something like that.
I never heard of a pipe being cut by a core drill, but in case - well if it's encased in concrete, I guess they would have to break the concrete and repair the pipe. I mean, if there are wires in there, you know...
SHACKLETON:
Would that be done by the wire =en.
Is that the craft that would do the repair work?
SANDOVAL:
The pipe, yeah. But like I say, I have never heard of a...
POWER:
Never heard of it?
SANDOVAL:
... of a core drill drilling into one of the pipes.
SRACKLETON:
I think that, Gene, that question ak+c using pigtails.
that's resolved. There is a procedure to cover that.
POWER:
0.K.
SRACKLETON:
Have you ever worked over in Unit 27 SANDOVAL:
Uh, the first five months I worked here I worked in
~~
Unit 2 - well that - no, terminating, no.
I was helpin'g a welder.
SEACKLETON:
0.K.
Well, let me - You might know something about this next allegation.
The allegation we have relates to uni-strut brackets that are used for supporting cable trays for piping and the allegation is that over in Unit 2, there have been some problems between foremen and.
some of the crafts, including the wiremen and as the story is told to us, they put their uni-strut up that goes into an imbed, it is velded to an imbed plate and when a QC inspector buys it off, he has got some kind of a die that he strikes apparently with a hammer I would assume and puts his identification mark into the imbed plate and that shows to anybody that looks at it that-it has been bought off by QC, The story we are getting is that because of the hard feelings that have built up with some of tha foremen and crafts and QC, that some of the craftsmen have gone over.and have changed some of the uni-struts after they are bought off and re-welded them in a fashion that t
makes'them in violation of their design to get either the QC inspector in trouble or the foremen.
Have you ever heard of any stories like this?
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SANDOVAL:
No, I haven't.
SHACl3.ETON :
0.K.
In the last area, Joe, I want to cover, is the use of controlled drugs on site, and what I am talking about-is that we have had allegations that there is an excessive amount of. narcotics used on the site, primarily marijuana, and also cocaine and some of the amphetamines like~" black beauties" and hashish. Have you observed any of this drug traffic on the site?
SANDOVAL:.
Sure have.
SHACKLETON:
'Have you smelled the marijuana smok's in areas where you have worked?
SANDOVAL:
Yes, I have. Maybe in the last two years that I have been here, maybe once or twice.
SHACl3.ETON:
From your observations, do you consider it a big problem here on the site?
SANDOVAL:
No.
SHACKLETON:
Have you ever been approached by anyone to sell drugs to you?-
SANDOVAL:
No, no.
SHACKLETON:
Gene, do-you have any questions?
P0k'ER:
No.
SHACKLETON:
Joe, we appreciate your cooperation and we will bring this interview to a close..The time is now 10:15 in the morning of June 28, 1982.
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