ML20128M945

Transcript of Interview of RA Deakins on 820701 Re Allegations.Pp 1-17

ML20128M945
Person / Time
Site:	Palo Verde
Issue date:	07/01/1982
From:	Deakins R BECHTEL GROUP, INC.
To:
Shared Package
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References
FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030125
Download: ML20128M945 (18)

Text

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.. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

3. A NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION -

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In the matter of:

Interview of Richard A. Deakins Docket No.

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Date:

July-1, 1982.

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8506030125 831110 PDR FOIA s.

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BERNABE83-A-9 PDR l-.

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TAYLOE ASSOCIATES t.

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Court Reporters 1625 I Street, N.W. Suite 1004 Washington, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-3950

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^ fUNITED STATESfOF. AMERICA c( ' -

. NUCLEAR REGULATORY--COMMISSION'

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. Interview of Richard'A.'Deakins ~

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July 1,.1982-,

It' Palo Verde. Nuclear-Station o--

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JInvestigat' ors:,

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~2l INVESTIGATOR:.This is an'~ interview.of Mr.

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o, 1 Richard 'A~.y.- Deakins, s ar$d the last nameJis spelled "D."

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< s-a 4i cin David, e-a-k-i-n-s^.

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.. M r.. D e akins.is. employed'as a QC eingineer

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6" Lin'the' electrical-field;as a. level 2 for the Bechtel s < -

g Power: Corporation, at the.Palo Verde' Nuclear Generating

7 81 Station.

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9 Presentito conduct th'is' interview from the

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10. S. Nuclear: Regulatory Commission is"Mr.

E..J.

Power,

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~II an. Investigator,'.andfmyself,SOwen-Shackleton,..also an lc

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- Investigator.- Both of us. assigned to Region 5 of..thej L

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-U.=S.;NucleaERegulatory-CommissioninWalnutLCrhek,-

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California.

15-Prior-toctape recordingithisiinterview, IL

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-.advisedTMr.' Deakins.ofLapplicableJ1aw to'giving testimony-

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under oath,.and h'e agreed to,.and'was'plac'efuhder oath,'

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.'by mei

Mr.' Dedkins,~do we h've1your permission to-19 '

a f tape.' record,:t'his iinterview?

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JMR. DEAKINS:

Yes.-

22 INVESTIGATOR:

You said most ofIyour' work is..

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..andlone of the all'egationsLthat involvbdjin(terminationsI,[&

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' we 'arelinvesticjating: had;to do with terminations and l

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primarily in theEuse bf' termination cards.

And you work.'

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with termination cards, I take it.

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2 MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) 3 INVESTIGATOR:

Rich, have you ever known of, 4

observed, or heard, or in any manner gained some knowledge

'5 or rumor that any of the craft people, the wiremen,.have 6

ever been directed'~to sign a termination card for work 7

they did not perform?

8 MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) 9

. INVESTIGATOR:

Can you give us background data 10 on it?

i

-11 MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) and lost the card, 12 and the man wasn't available at the time, the man who 13 actually did the work, so the foreman signed the card.

14 INVESTIGATOR:

Can you' remember the particular 15 individuals that were involved?

Who was the foreman?

16 MR. DEAKINS:

Mr. Pete Anzoa.

17 INVESTIGATOR:

Pete Anzoa?

Is he still on site?

18 MR. DEAKINS:

Yes, sir.

19 INVESTIGATOR:

And he is working in electrical.

M MR. DEAKINS:

Yes.

21 INVESTIGATOR:

And he signed for a craftsman 22 who is no longer on the site?

23

MR. DEAKINS:

-If;I remember right, it was. work 24 I had' inspected.

M INVESTIGATOR:

Work you had inspected.

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Right.-

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'TINVESTIGATOR:.And was.the workffound"to be.

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satisfactiory?

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. INVESTIGATOR: 2When yourinspect.this type of

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termination,Lwhen the-guy'isn't present'; what do you-do,'

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Rich, tolmake sure.that it.is' correct?:

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Wellj that depends'on what the~

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.'(inaudible).

I check 4to'make sure'everything.is' tight.-

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.IJcheck on the crimps.

INVESTIGAT' R':-

Is this safetyLrelated-Q cable.

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~MRh DEAKINS:. Q cables.

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INVESTIGATOR:l SoLit(was safety-related-cable.

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-Can'you.rememberrspecifically where it-was.

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. MR. - DEAKINS :. -(Inaudible)

INVESTIGATOR:- Well, it.was._in Unit 1.-

4 16 MR[DEAKINS:.Yes.

17,

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18 !

I'NVESTIGATOR :

Was it" going into a panel,_ori 419.:

Jwas -- -you sa'id it' was multiple connections.

20:

?MR. DEAKINS:.One cable (inaudible).

i21

' INVESTIGATOR:

Do-you.recalljwhen it occurred..

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- It was at least six ;mont-hs ago..

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MR. DEAKINS:

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INVESTIGATORt" Last year.some. time?

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[ MR..DEAKINS :' Yes.

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Do you remember anyone else

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"thati niight have been present?;

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'2-What I am trying to do, Rich, is;we have'a 3

problem lto resolve in;these situations, and we-may.have

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'4 to go-back, and I don't know what' action may'have to be

5' done, but?we.have'others -.whether or not we are going-6.

to have to 'de--terminate them and..reterminate them, I f on't know?what they.are going to do.

So',

it is important, 74 d

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<if we can, to try and find the location.

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. Was there anyone else present-that you' can 10 [

remember?

-11 LMR. DEAKINS:

No.

It was just something.-- they

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~ knew they had' lost the card, and I:took the new. cards.

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.x f around.and. inspected the~ work.

13

. 14 ~

INVESTIGATOR:

Do you remember who the 2

15 electrician.was?

16-MR. DEAKINS:

No, '(inaudible).'

17 INVESTIGATOR:.

I~ understand thati.. If we 'can -

18 possibly reconstruct ~it --

' 19 MR: DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) 20 INVESTIGATOR:

Did~you follow the same procedures' 21' f'or a termination-that has to be reinspected?

? T 'MR. DEAKINS:- Yes..

Make sure=everything'is 22 r*

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',, dINVESk'IGATOR: ' iWhat does the. electrician do-A 7'}-

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u The;= electrician is now gone --

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MR. DEAKINS:

In some cases they recrimp it.-

2 INVESTIGATOR:

Is this the only one --

3 MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) 4 INVESTIGATOR:

In some situations they perform 5-.

almost'like a QT.

They look at it and say they-didn't 6

do it, it looks good and there is no problem to reterminate

-7 it and they go ahead and sign (inaudible).

8 MR. DEAKINS:

Yeah.

9-INVESTIGATOR:

In those cases, do they then 10 use their own crimp tools (inaudible).

11 MR. DEAKINS: ~They would use our crimp tools 12 (inaudible).

7 i

13 INVESTIGATOR:

What is your estimate offthe m

14 total. number over the period of,-say, the last year, of 15 new termination cards being reissued, where the termination 16

_was previously inspected and signed off.

Do you have any 17 feel for that?

'18 MR. DEAKINS:

Six. (inaudible).

19 INVESTIGATOR:

That is total for the whole 20 project (inaudible).

7..

21 MR. DEAKINS:

Yes, as far as I know.

f 22 TINVESTIGATOR:

I am trying to get your evaluation.

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We are trying to get an idea of t

j 24 how many we are' talking about, because we know roughly 25 we have forty-four.:th'ousand terminations, according to

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.Bechtiel, and'approximately six thousand are Class Q.

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2 And,the allegation is.that there is: falsification 3

!of documentation,. and there is no procedure. t'o cover the :

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how to handle a reissuance of the termination Z

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.So, Teach foreman is tak'ing-itJupon'-himself, and.

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Jun'derstandably so,. of what.to do.

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'Now, in this casetyou said:that:Pete an'd Bill'

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9 MR. DEAKINS:.

Card.

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. INVESTIGATOR:

And he signed.his.name, do.you

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MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) The card'would be.

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-handed--to me, and I would'go back out and-check-the. work

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INVESTIGATOR:

--On that particular o'ne,.-did~he

.16 '

determinate it-or just leave it as'it'was?

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MR. DEAKINS:

I can't.really say for sure.

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If~there is something special, I have to be-

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there..

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<20-INVESTIGATOR:

Whenido you'have to witness a

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' termination?

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7 MR." DEAKINS : kAll of our. power..(inaudible).

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Anything that is

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(Inaudible)

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That.is right.

Aslafmatter-of b

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INVESTIGATOR:.How do you-normally receive.

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From whom do you~ receive it?.

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MR.:DEAKINS:. -(Inaudible) 8.

. INVESTIGATOR:

Director"of' engineering?

9

.MR. DEAKINS:

Yeah.

10 INVESTIGATdR: 'Have you ever been present when

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ssomeJof the craftsmen have been given a,'new termination-.

-12 card and directed to go out (ina'udible).

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Yeah.

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INVESTIGATOR:

Under what-circumstances, or-

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whet type of-directions,-or-instructions, were given to them?

16.

'MR. DEAKINSi Notice ~the' work,was-done, but.th'ey?

.didn't.have anything to'back it up, so u they -_went. out and '-

171 18.

cut;it out, and redid the work.

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' INVESTIGATOR:- -(Inaudible)

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- 20 INVESTIGATOR: -Have.you been,present when these

'21 conversations have.,tak'en place?.

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I'6hink on'one occasion, m

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24 one,jto.either redo it,"or-to go out and look at it.

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Go'out and rework it.

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Rework it.

So the inference qd

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In-reference to any others, are you aware.of any situations.

'4

.where.they;just pulled and signed the card, and not ix

'5' necessarily go out and'look at'.it?

6 MR.:DEAKINS: No.

s 7-INVESTIGATOR:

Are you aware, of. any : situation

.8 where there:would have been undue pressure from a. foreman,_

9

. general forman,'.or the. superintendent where, again, sign

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.the card, and not necessarily'go out and check the' work.

-.11 '

MR. DEAKINS:

No.

- N INVESTIGATOR:

Rick, havefyou~ever witnessed

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13 or, heard of any splicing of Clas's 0 cables.shere QC.was N

1 14 not'o'fficially called in.and proper documentation wasn't ll

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2 16 MR. DEAKINS:

In splicing?-

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Yes.

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' 18

~MR.

DEAKINS:

We: don't'/doisplices.

19 INVESTIGATOR:

You don't'do splices of Class Q r.

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-cable.

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You are talkin'g about (inaudible).

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Yes.

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-Well,'we.have an allegation thati

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this occurred, and it was. damage ~that was allegedly done-w k

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'by. welding slag, where somebody probably hadn't used-a 1

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' welding blanket, and it' fell down'on the cables:and.did'-

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.some damage,:and someLkits'were useds-to' repair it, and the

\\4 cables were covered up, and the QC wasn't involved,

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.5 engineering wasn'.t involved,'and no documentation'was 6--

made~of it.

7 You'have never' heard any such' stories?

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MR.-DEAKINS: No.

'9

- INVESTIGATOli:

As you are out there working, 10

.-have,you ever'come-across a situation, Rick, where you 11-

-find --where' work has been bought off, terminations.

12 And you come back, and maybe you have to run.

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another c'able into that area, and find the lines have been m

!< determinated,,and sometimes.left unconnected or been 15.

ret'erminated, and there wasn't any' documentation asto 16

'who did it?

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DEAKINS:

(Inaudible).

18 :-

INVESTIGATOR:

And what is - the'. assumption 'made

'19 by who wa's the-responsible' party?

'N MR. DEAKINS:

In many cases we- (inaudible).

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_ l INVESTIGATOR:f.,Do~you consider this to'be a 4

22 big l problem? ;Does it happen frequently?

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'MR. DEAKINS:

'No t now. (Inaudible).

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'You wrote what -- how many NCRs?

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Four or five.

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Six_ months.

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Six-months period.

The~ situation-

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lyou~. consider now as better?

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'MR DEAKINSi Definitely.:

6-INNESTIGATOR':' You see, one:of-the-allegations m.

we had=fr'cm~some of the people that work here, there was 7

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-a' time apparently where it was quite a problem, mand they.'

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- were finding,' according to ltheir testimony, from time to

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. time they would. find lines had been taken down, some of

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11, themihadn't'been put back.as neatly, and bundles had been-12 -

.. broken, and-'so on, and there was ---no one would own up

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to it.

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MR.-DEAKINS:

'(Inaudible).

I'can't= guess.

t i5 I'NVESTIGATOR:

.I am going to repeat.

Because a

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you. are speaking quitel low,, and we -may-not be able to!

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-pick [it up..Mr.-Deakinse said that'-- again, would you.

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MR.-sDEAKINS :, < (Inaudible) _ We have documentation 20

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21 that'shows (inaudible).

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. INVESTIGATOR:.. Gene,-_do you have any questions

-- 23 2in'that area?'

24.

INVESTIGATOR:

In reference to the (Inaudible)'.

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..You are satisfied with the disposition of that.

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Oh.,1 yeah,'I work with them.

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[3-l work E (ina'udib'l' ).

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((Inaudible)

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. INVESTIGATOR: ' Rich,1during theiperiod;of. time-Ul_

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--/approximately.a y'e'ar ago, the'best,I can'; place it -,

M they had some~ problems.here with some of.the insulating:.

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materials. -Bear with ourLignorance.

Gene and I, we'are 9-'

dot really..' acquainted'with:the. craft-that..you are watching-c 110 -

.every' day. ' As s.I ~ understand f they did useia' material called'

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-Scotch Fill:2200,:which.was some-type of a com' pound made:-

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That: was; ~(inaudible).

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INVESTIGATOR:

Okay. 'As Ifunderstan'd..it, this

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stuff,..they.found.because of' the'Edesert heat here, would f

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. start toimelt and-it wasn't a' satisfactory insulating 17 7mst'erial.;'7 So,9appr ximately; a. year ago. they changed, to!

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,130.C. ' Do,they_have'a retro-fit program to go back and:

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.-. MR. DEAKINS:

Yes.-

In' fact ' (inaudible) ~.

Went

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back out;and reworked the' entire (inaudible).

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INVESTIGATOR:

And this new materia 1-now works rw 240 out'okay, this.130.C?.-

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DEAKINS:

(Inaudible).

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<1" INVESTIGATOR:'.-When you'came on l$oard, Rich,

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'what. kind'of1 training-were you'given?-

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~MR.. DEAKINS:. When I first came aboard I'was.

4 working:with} procurement..

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. INVESTIGATOR:- Procurement?- And then you~came

.6 overito QC.- ' What I am referring'to,'when you came to OC,

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. hat. kind.of.QC training ldid they give you?

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w Ed MR. DEAKINS:

Generally, we would go out with 9

ca mansin the' field first, andlsee what work'was going 10 along.. We also had classes. < (Inaudible),

ill INVESTIGATOR: ;How many weeks or days -- what

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was theilength'or. period of time that you were given

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l training on-the job,'in: classroom, and reading procedures.

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s14 befor'e'you were turned' loose to' work by~yourself?

15

.MR.-DEAKINS:

Electrical, about~two months.s s

16

,INVESTIGATdR:. D'o you--feel that the? training g-117 lyo.u} received'was ' adequate?.

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~ MR '. DEAKINS:.Not in all cases,-but (inaudible)..

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INVESTIGATOR: " Generally speaking'.=

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- VMR.-DEAKINS

., Generally speaking..

20

. 21 ~

INVESTIGATOR:

Do you have any' type of classes.

22

.that are given since the original training to' keep yousup-

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23 to date, or --

24,

MR..DEAKINS:

They have (inaudible) that come

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- 25 Tout once in-a while.

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1-INVESTIGATOR:

Gene, do you have any questions 7.

?IN' 2-

oncthe training?.

3

, INVESTIGATOR:

No.

4 INVESTIGATOR:

One of1the allegations was that-5

~you people'aren't properly trained.-[ Rich, do younhave-L6~

'any' problems in offu'tively doing your~ job from construct' ion--

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-' personnel,.both management or the crafts -- what I am

'8'

- getting-'at, are you intimidated or'can you operate freely..

4:

. 9.

MR. DEAKINS:

I operate freely.

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10 INVESTIGATOR: ~Have you ever had any,. problems 11"

?with people trying to: intimidate you?-

(12 l MR. DEAKINS:

Not intimidate.

Lack of f

13I cooperation, y

j-

. INVESTIGATOR:

-JustTthe-general work experiencec 14 '

15

.!durin'g. thd ' day.

i 16c MR. DEAKINS:

Personal (inaudible),

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as.. /.: 2

_, ;INVESTIGATdRiHave you_been.-involved in hapotic?'

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ff.jDEAKINSi[ Yes.:

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19 INVESTIGATOR:

From.your, observations, Rich,-have

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you witnessed or heahd of-any excessive-hapoting to a' cable?

2

' 20 -

21 MR. 'DEAKINS ':

Just one motor;that failed-

_ 22 -

-(inaudible).. And' we pulled thati motor out.

23 c INVESTIGATOR: What do'you mean by excessive-24 yN hapoting'on tha't' motor?

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MR.'DEAKINS':

I understand they (i.naudible) the-V 2

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~l' motor'four,or five-times.-

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'2' INVESTIGATOR: -Was.thatLa: safety-related. motor?

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.MR.

DEAKINS: Yeah.

Reactor cooling' pump.-

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4 INVESTIGATOR

Reactor: cooling pump.

-5 MR. : DEAKI'NS:

Yes.

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6 INVESTIGATOR: ~ And thatiwas in Unit 17-

-7; MR.-DEAKINS:

Yes.

8~

INVESTIGATOR:

Isn't there more than one pump.

9 MR. DEAKINS: ~ Four.

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'10 INVESTIGATOR:

Do you. remember which pump [by 11 Tdesignation?-

t 12-

'MR.

DEAKINS:

I can visualize where it is L ocated, but I don't know the number.

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14

. INVESTIGATOR:.How long'ago was this, Rich?

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~MR. DEAKINS:

.A out-'s x mont s ago.-

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INVESTIGATOR:

Were there NCRs written on.it?

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p MR.'DEAKINS:

That is my' understanding.

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. INVESTIGATOR: ;Do you know who wrote the:NCR?

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3 p(Inaudible) 19 MR.. DEAKINS:

l 2 T{y' 20 INVESTIGATOR:

Is a'QC present for.all hapoticing?

~ 21 MR. DEAKINS:

(Inaudible) 22-INVESTIGATOR:

Everything we are interested'in 4

23 Jin Class Q type.

We. live with it all the time, and that 24 is all~we think about, and sometimes we forget to-tell (y

, )

25 other' people.

The reason for that, if no one has'ever

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explained it to you, it isn't that we aren't concerned about 2

everything in the plant, but because of the magnitude of 3

one of these plants, the only thing the NRC is concerned 4

about directly, our prime interest is safety-related 5_

equipment.

6 Because you can have a failure of a turbine, 7

in the turbine building, and it might shut the plant down

~

8 and it won't produce electricity.

But there is no danger 9

to the health and safety of the public.

The systems we 10

'are concerned about is there may be a release of radiation 11 of some kind, or some form, in the atmosphere that could 12 endanger the health of the people in the plant or the 13 neighboring' countryside.

14 If someone tells us about something that is not 15 right in the turbine building, of course we report it to 16 the client, because' naturally they want to correct.it, 17 and we don'tlwant'to have'anybody have any more problems

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18 than --

19 MR. DEAKINS: I see.

20 INVESTIGATOR: Now, the other subject I want 21 to talk about is use of O-Ring, and what I am talking about 22 is, as I understand it, where a conduit is run and it may 23 come into some form of junction box, and they use O-Ring 24 where they have a screw-down fitting in order to give it s

a water tight integrity.

Have you worked -- or had to do

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x1 anycQC:on thatjtype of-thing?.

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I.- do notd ~ get involved with the 2Q

. 2 MR. DEAKINS

730 0-Rings.

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-INVESTIGATOR:

The allegation'is.there was a a:

if-

.5:

periodof. time - -within about:a year ago -- for-six. months

.6i

there1was. aEshortage of O-Rings,- and'they were t,old...to go i

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. ahead'andIrun~;the piping withoutait.

Is that familiar tci

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c your, memory.:Jat+alli 9.

MR. 'DEAKINS:,Not a at -all.

10 1 INVESTIGA OR:

At t-his time I am going t' o': stop-

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