ML20127P537
| ML20127P537 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/17/1982 |
| From: | Kenard G, Kennard G AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML17215B062 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8505240018 | |
| Download: ML20127P537 (19) | |
Text
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VAUGHN INDEX $ 44 o
APPEAL APPENDIX # 336 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the matter of:
Interview of George A. Kennard Docket No.
I ~ IO Location:
Pages:
. Date:
June 17, 1982 p
TAYLOE ASSOCIATES Court Reporters 8C8 8],,-((["Q00' g52gg941024 BER NABE83-A-9 PDR (202) 29M950
c t6sA-dh.
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION' 2
3 4
e 5'
6 7
Interview of George A. Kennard 18 9
10 II June 17,'1982 Palo Verde Nuclear Station 12 13 14 Investigators:
E. J.
Power O. C.
Shackleton 16 17 18
-19 21 22
%I 24 u
2 I
EESSEEE1EEE 2
INVESTIGATOR: 'This is an interview of Mr. George 3
A. Kennard.
Mr. Kennard is an electrician presently ~ working 4
for Bechtel Power Corporation, assigned to Unit 1, Palo Verde
_5 Nuclear Generating. Station.
s Present to conduct this interview for the Nuclear 6
c.
7 Regulatory Commission is E. J. Power and myself, O. C. Shackle" 8
. ton, investigators. assigned from Region V.
9 Mr. Kennard, do we have your permission to tape 10 record this interview?
11 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
Thank you.
'/ -
13 I
George, I'm going to go down this list and the first thing that we have to discuss with you is use of cable 14 15 termination cards.
And we have some allegations of alleged 16 improper use.
Have you ever been asked to sign a termination 17 card for work that you did not-perform?
18 MR. KENNARD:
I think once or twice.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
Can you give us what the circumstanc :
1 M
were?
3 21 MR. KENNARD:
Yes, I think a
foreman came around and said that they,had lost a card, and wanted that -- we knew 22 23 it was terminated -- that he wanted electrician's signatures.
24 INVESTIGATOR:
Do you remember what kind of a syste u 25 we're talking about?
Whether it was a safety-related system?
h
3 f
MR. KENNARD:
I don't remember for sure.
It seems 1
2 like it was black wired.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
Do you know what building you were 4
in?
Where you were in the plant.
5 NR. KENNARD:
Seem like it was out of'this, so 6
five or six, I don't remember which one.
High voltage.
7 INVESTIGATOR:
And who was the foreman, George?
i 8
Do you remember?
I 9
MR. KENNARD:
Rich Keith.
10 INVESTIGATOR:
And you felt there were two occasions 11 that this happened?
12 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I'm not sure.
I know at least 13
' once.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Can you remember a period 6f time, I
i 15 I approximately how long ago was it?
16 MR. KENNARD:
Well, it's been some time.
Say maybe 17 a year.
Maybe a little more.
.18 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
And did you sign the card 19 then?
20 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
Now, on that termination card that n
you signed was your crimp tool number used or wes the number 23 used of the guy who had done the termination?
24 MR. KENNARD:
Well all he wanted, as I remember, 25 was signature.
In other words, the foremen don' t sign that
4 e'
o 1
as doing the termination.
2 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, the crimp tool number goes 3
on there; is that correct?
4 MR. KENNARD: Yes.
5' INVESTIGITOR:
Do you remember what crimping. tool 6
number was used on it?
7 MR. KENNARD:
No, sir, I don't.
8
.INVESTIG.ATOR:
Was there anyone else present when 9
you were -- were you asked or directed to do this?
10 MR. KENNARD:
I was asked.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
Was anyone else present that 12 you can recall?
13 MR. KENNARD:
No.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you go out, actually physically-l 15 and look At the terminations?
16 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I remember at that time where 17 it was.
And possibly I had done it the first time, I don't 18 know.
But I was positive.
When he asked me, I did recognize 19 that he said he needed an electrician's signature.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
-- this was something that you had 21 previously done yourself?
22 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
Well, I'm not positive of that, 23 but I think it was, yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR:
(Inaudible).
Okay.
25 INVESTIGATOR:
Was Keith the one that asked you to k.
5 1
' sign the card?-
2 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
Approximately what time?' Year, 4
year and a half?
5 MR. KENNARD:
Well, like I say I don't remember
~
6 exactly.
We've been on this quite a while.,
7 INVESTIGATOR:
George, I understand the foremen 8
keep a log book on the termination cards.
9 MR. KENNARD: Yes.
10 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever seen that log book?
11 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
12 INVEST'IGATOR:
You know what I'm referring to here 13 MR. KENNARD :
Yes.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Did Keith have that log book, do 15 you remember, when he talked to you?
Was he referring to-it 16 when he called you over?
17' MR. KENNARD :
I don't kno*..* that he did.
All I-18 remember is he needed this card signed.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
You don't feel there was any 21 pressure, or --
.22 MR. KENNARD :
No, I don't feel like there-was, M
because like I say I think that I did the original.
24 (Inaudible).
So I think that's the reason.he asked me.
M INVESTIGATOR:
So it's not'a common occurrence?
6 1
MR. KENNARD:
No.
2 INVESTIGATOR: 'Are you aware of anyone else that's 3
been asked under similar circumstances?
4 MR. KENNARD:
No.
You know, that's pretty much of 5
.an individual thing; they -- you know, if they need something 6
like"that, they just come and ask you, you know.
And it's not 7
an everyday occurrence, by any means.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
We appreciate the fact that cards 9
get lost; that's not the point.
But we were interested in 10 under what circumstances you or anybody else had been asked 11 '
and did in fact sign a card under those circumstances.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
In this case, though, the card 13 really wasn't lost, was it?
14 MR. KENNARD:
It was misplaced, or it got lost in 15 the engineering, o r --
16 INVESTIGATOR:
It was a duplicate card?
17 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
18 INVESTIGATOR:
(Inaudible) previously completed.
19 VOICE:
Yes.
M INVESTIGATOR:
Then it's really'a question to him.
21 George, the next thing was the allegation that any 22 improper splicing of quality class safety related cables, 23 and what we're talking about here is a situation where a 24
. failure with some overhead welding, the welding trade, some-25 body didn't put a welding blanket over the tray;- hot slag came
V I
down and reportedly burnt the covering on the cable.
And 2
rather than de-terminate'it, pull it and replace it, someone 3
allegedly took a short cut and heat shrink kit and made a 4
visual repair and pulled the cable down into the pile on the 5
tray so it wasn't' visible.
6 Have you ever known of anything like that to take 7
place?
MR. KENNARD:
I haven't.
I ha.ven't encountered tha 8
Whenever we get in there -- I say "we" the termination guys 10 get in there, we only have a QC guy there, right looking down II your neck.
INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever been required to
'~
I3
'l splice quality control cables?
4 I4 3
MR. KENNARD:
No.
Butt splice?
4
'15 4
1; INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, I don't mean at a termination llh point, but somewhere in a tray or in a.run.
17 MR. KENNARD :
No.
INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
MR. KENNARD:
The only splices that we've made are 20 on little solenoid valves.
You know, those small, 16, 14 wire.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
Bear with Gene and I because 22 we're not electricians.
INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, we're --
j 24
~
INVESTIGATOR:
We don't know your craft.
- I may I
25 ask you some things that are a little bit ~(inaudible) so you'1]
h j
8 I
have to understand.
2 Gene, do you h' ave any questions on splicing?
3 Another allegation we had is concerning when you 4
fellows make a termination and everything goes fine, it gets 5
bought off, and you go off on another assignment somewhere 6
but later come back to the same~ area and you find the termina-7 tion you'd done had been de-terminated maybe by Startup and 8
then either wasn't. re-terminated or was not done too neatly 9
when it was re-terminated.
Have you ever had any problems I
10 in that area?
11 MR. KENNARD:
No, I can't say I have.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
I've forgotten now, are you working
-13 with the high voltage, or --?
14 MR. KENNARD:
I've been in high voltage most of I
15 the time.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
(Inaudible).
How long.
17 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I'd say probably three years 18 out here.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
In the period that you've been here, 20 quite a long time, so you'll probably recall there was a 21 period of time for insulation material that you guys are 22 using a material called Scotch Fill.
23 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR:
And we understand that it turned M
out not to be satisf actory inasmuch as under the intense heat i
j 9
1 of the desert climate it was melting and you were getting 2-runoff (inaudible) and then you changed and went to 130 C.
3 MR. KENNARD:
That's correct.
I
'4-INVESTIGATOR:
Do you recall that?
5 MR.~KENNARD:
Yes.
6 INVESTIGATOR:
Were you involved.in any of the 7
retrofit?
Did you go back and retrofit --
l l
8 MR. KENNARD:
Yes, I was on at least two or three 9
of those.
10 INVESTIGATOR:
And you're'using 130 C now, is that 11 correct?
12 MR. KENNARD: That's correct.
13 INVESTIGATOR:
The next issue, George, relates to 14 a situation like where you're -- we're to connect a field 15 cable to a motor, and the motor on the pecker-head has got 16 a single bolt lug and your field cable's got a two-bolt lug, 17 '
have you had any connections you've had to make up_like that?
18 MR. KENNARD:
I've had a few of those, yes.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
And then how did you do them, l
20 George?
21 MR. KENNARD:
Well,atthedirectionoftheforeman!
~
22 he went and checked to see what we were supposed to do and 23 what we had'to do, and there were a few times when we did cut 24 a lug off to make the connection or put an extra bolt in the i
25 lug to fill the hole.
That didn't happen very often.
j i
-l l
10-
+
I 1
INVESTIGATOR:
Was that all done under one foreman, 2
or was that other foremen'?
Do you remember?
3 MR. KENNARD:
Well, most of the high voltage has t
4 been under the one foreman, until the last--
.5 INVESTIGATOR:- 14ho would that be?'
6 MR. KENNARD:
That would be Rich Keith.
7 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, when you cut the lug, isn't 8
that a violation of your procedure?
9 MR. KENNARD:
Well normally it is, but sometimes
~
10 you may have to do that for the size of the pecker-head or 11 the fit of the kit, you know, that you get, the motor kit, 12 especially on the Q class cable.
13 INVESTIGATOR:
When you cut a lug, say you cut --
14 I guess you would cut through a field cable?
Or would it vary, 1
15 If'the field cable has got a two-bolt lug and the pecker-head'
~
16 has a one-bolt lug, where would you normally cut from, then?
17 MR. KENNARD:
Well, we didn' t every try to cut 1,
~
i 18 them.
I mean, there probably were a few cases that we did.
!=
19 I. don't know exactly -- I couldn't take you out and show you l 20 on that right now.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
What I want to ask you is when you 22 cut one, so that you've only got one lug left, am I right --?
23 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR:
-- is there a particular amount of 25 metal that you have no leave?
i l
11 1
MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
We have to leave a certain 2'
amount,'as much as on the sides, and a little more.
I don't 3
remember the exact measurement, but you have-to leave at 4
least as much --
5 INVESTIGATOR:
-- on the top -- as there-is on the 6
top as on the bottom --
7 INVESTIGATOR:
-- on either side?
8 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
9 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
The next question -- pardon 10 me.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Before you go on, in reference to 12 all those, to the best of your knowledge was this all done in 13 accordance with procedures and the requirements of (inaudible) ?
14 MR. KENNARD:
Yes, sir.
i 15 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you had any situations such as 16
-- in nonconformance;'there was an NCR. written, the engineer 17 looked at it and (inaudible).
- To the best of your knowledge.
18 MR. KENNARD:
Let's see.
Well, there was one QC 19 fella that didn't like the one lug of the small wire going on l
-- see, we had four coming in.
And maybe we had a small M
lug on the motor.
So he didn't like that,first thing.
But 21 22 I think they ended up saying that's what they wanted.
23 INVESTIGATOR:
So in that case he questioned the 24
~
. installation --
25 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
6 I
o
U
-12 1
INVESTIGATOR -- he got a disposition from the-QC 2-side of engineering --
3 MR. KENNARD:
That's right.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
When did this approximately occur?
5 MR. KENNdRD:
I would say this was maybe a year ago-6 INVESTIGATOR:
Do you recall the OC's name?
7 MR. KENNARD:
I'll think of it in just a second.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Did he write an NCR
--?
I 9
MR. KENNARD:
Yes, he put a red tag on it and --
10 INVESTIGATOR:
Could his'name have been Broyhill?
11
~ Ken Broyhill?
12 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
Kevin.
Kevin Broyhill.
l 13 INVESTIGATOR:
Was the end result 1 satisfactory to 14
.the best of your knowledge to everybody involved?
15 MR. KENNARD:
I think it went on through and they 16 used the or.e hole, and then put a bolt in the other hole.
17 '
INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
18 MR. KENNARD:
As I remember.
19
' INVESTIGATOR:
While we're talking about QC 20 inspectors, George, from your observation in all these 30 21 years that you've been lurking in the crowd, do you feel that 22
'the QC inspectors that are working with you. fellows are 23 adequately trained and are doing an adequate job?
24 INVESTIGATOR: Now this doesn't mean they have to 25 be an electrician.
Because a QC inspector is to perform a L
13 1
check-type function.
Is he adequately performing a function?
2 MR. KENNARD:
I would say yes, that they are.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
You.say it-with some reservations.
4 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I think that some of them, when 5
they first got in here really didn't know anything, and that 6
possibly they learned something from us out in the field.
'7 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, they should.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Because they all start someplace.
9 MR. KENNARD:
Right.
10 INVESTIGATOR: Particularly the younger folks.
11 '
MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
But I think that especially 12 now-they are.doing a good job on checking whatever work --
13 INVESTIGATOR:
Right.
Now the other p, art of that 14 -
question is to the best-of your knowledge, they -- nothing 15 has ever been installed that, QC didn't perform adequately, 16 an adequate check on it?
17 MR. KENNARD:
No, I would have to say that it's-o-
le all been checked and see to use the right materials and the 19 right tools and all that.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
They were very specific.
21 MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
~
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Next part of the question on these 23 QC people, do you feel that the OC people that work with you, 24 and the crews that you work with out there are able to work I
freely without any intimidation by the construction supervisio-25 N
14 c.
i e.
il
.or'the crafts?
?-
2 MR.-KENNARD:
Yes, they seem to know what-they can 3
tell you and not; they have their own boss and that's who~they
- 4 really go by.
5-INVESTIGATOR:
What'I'm getting at is situations
'6
-where they may hang red tags, the QC inspector, for some 7
reason that he feels should be hung,'and there should be no 8
further work'done on that cable.
And a foreman from construc-9-
-tion comes along and says, Get*the damn tags off there, it's 11L all right; and the'QC --
~11 MR. KENNARD:
- Well, I' don't think they would listen 12
.to him at that point.
They are d6ing what they understand is-13
.the proper-procedure, and they really don't care what that 14.
foreman says, you know; they go ahead and do their thing.-
15
-INVESTIGATOR:
George,.have you participated in 16 -
some.high pot testing and __ ring?
17I MR. KENNARD:
'Yes, I have.
18 :
INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
We have allegations that-there 19 are some cables that have been high pot tested several times.
20 Either because of-the lack of coordination between construction 21 and Startup or maybe for some other reasons.
Have you ever 22 observed and know of any excessive high pot testing?
1B
_ MR. KENNARD:
Well, the only high pot.that I.know 24 -
of is what-we did after we would terminate cables, and then 25 run a high pot -- you know, a meger and a high pot test on tha t f
I '* '
~
l e #
7 15 g.
1 L (inaudible)...ButEnow if'som4 thing was done at'a later-date, 2
' I wouldn '- t. --
'3 INVESTI' GATOR: Be familiar with that.
~
4 INVESTIGATOR:
We have an allegation concerning 5
'O rings.
And what it amounts to is-a concern that there.was 61 an installation in the control building at the 100 foot
-7 elevation. Have-you ever worked down there?
'8' MR. KENNARD:
Yes.
I worked in control lines.
9' INVESTIGATOR:. What I'm talNing about, to the 10 best.of my understanding is that apparently we.were. talking-11 about. conduit-that is coming down and it's terminating into 12 some' kind of a con' trol panel, and where it enters the panel 13 they've.got a-slip fitting with threads and an O ring that is 1[
-compressed to give it a watertight fitting.
Have you done
'15 any of those?
16-MR. KENNARD:
Well, I haven't really done that,
' 17 but.I've seen a lot.
Most of them I've seen have the O rings
- 18 on.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
The allegation was that there was 20 a period of time that I'm asking you whether or not you may 21 recall this because you were here; that Bechtel didn't have 22 enough O rings.
And there was alleged 19 a period of time for 23 about six months that the guys were. told to go_ ahead and 24 install the pipe in, even though they didn't have the. O rings?
25 MR. KENNARD:
I didn't do hardly any pipe.
p-16 1
I worked on trays some, (inaudible), and then I got termina-2 tions.
But I didn't get involved in running a lot of small 3
pipe.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
Have you ever heard any 5
discussion amongst the journeymen about not having O rings 6
available when they needed them?
7 MR. KENNARD:
No, I haven't.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
We have another allegation concernin:
9 when they do a core drilling, to make a penetration and the 10 guys doing the_ drilling inadvertently drilled'into some 11 conduit.
Have you ever heard of or seen that problem?
12 MR. KENNARD:
I have not seen that.
13 INVESTIGATOR:
Along with that, George, you've 14 been here so long, maybe he knows those two guys we're trying-15 to find.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
Oh.
Yes.
Do you know Jim Williams?
17 Have you ever heard of an electrician, Jim Williams?
18 MR. KENNARD:
No.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
Jerry Stewart?
20 MR. KENNARD:
I don't know him.
. 21 INVESTIGATOR:
Or maybe another guy -- this guy 22 might be -- Mike Os, tad.
Is he the (inaudible)?
23 MR. KENNARD:
Osted?
-24 INVESTIGATOR:
Or Oswald?
25 MR. KENNARD:
Yes, Mike Oswald.
He was a wire l
17 1
pulling foreman or general foreman.
2 INVESTIGATOR:
Wait a minute, though.
There's a 3
Mike Osgood.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, that's a different --
5 (Simultaneous discussion.)
6 INVESTIGATOR:
Oswald?
7 MR. KENNARD:
Yes, there was a Mike'Oswald.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Is he still around?
9 MR. KENNARD:
I think he's down on 2 or 3 now.
10 I think he's a foreman down there.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Wire pullers.
Would they have taken 12
-(inaudible) damaged conduit in the wall?
To your knowledge.
13 I realize it's out of your area.
14 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I doubt that.
I imagine it 15 would be in the piping or the piping crews.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
The last item to discuss 17' with you, George, has nothing.directly to do with electrical, 18 but a concern that a lot of people have that we face all over 19 the country, and that's the amount of use of controlled drugs L
- M on site.
I'm talking about pot, hashish, cocaine-or ampheta-21 mines.
Have you come across anybody using any of these drugs 22 or smelled pot when you've been workin'?
g 23 MR. KENNARD:
That's not my cup of tea, but I 24 think you could find it around here if you wanted to..
M INVESTIGATOR:
You think it's a big problem; is it-N._
+.. - -
18 j
1 bigger than -- how are you evaluated as a concern as your 2.
experience at other places.you work?
3
- MR. KENNARD:
Well, now, I haven't really seen any 4
or seen somebody selling it, or anything else.
But I am 5
aware that you could buy it.
6 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever smelled pot in areas 7
where you were working?
8 MR. KENNARD:
Well, I think I have once or'twice.
9 I was up in the control room or,right underneath, you know, 10 there's a lot of. vent holes.
11 -
. INVESTIGATOR:
And it's coming up from the cable 12 tray area --
13 MR. KENNARD:
A couple of guys would say, Well, you 14 know what that is.
Now that's been a while back.
15 INVESTIGATOR:
Was'that on a day watch, a day shift?
16 MR.-KENNARD:
Yes.
17 INVESTIGATOR:
And you say it's a way back.
18 MR. KENNARD:
I'd say six, eight, nine, ten months.
.DidnB 19 (Change tape side. )
20 21 22-23 24
.