ML20128M894
| ML20128M894 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 07/14/1982 |
| From: | Baker W BECHTEL GROUP, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20079P594 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030111 | |
| Download: ML20128M894 (31) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
' : v NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the' matter of:
. Inter. view-of William M. Baker Docket No.
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Location:
Pages:
Date:
July 14, 1982 8506030111 831110 PDR FOIA DERNADE83-A-9 PDR TAYLOE ASSOCIATES Court Reporters 1625 i Street, N.W. Suite 1004 Washinston. D.C. 20006 (202) 29).3990
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'8-Interview of William M.' Baker O
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INVESTIGATOR:, This is July.the=14th',.1982, abd-
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- 3
>it'sfan interview 1of William M. Baker, B-a-k-e-r, Palo Verde 2 v 4'
' Nuclear Generation Station.-
i
-5 And Mr. Bak'er,,do we have your permission to tape <
r 16' this conversation?
,7
.MR.
BAKER:
Ye's. -
9' 8
INVESTIGATOR:
I'd like to get some. basic adminis z
9' trative information.
What'is your date of birth?
10 MR. BAKER:
March 30th,
'37.
1k -
INVESTIGATOR:
And your'present7 residence?
/ 12 -
'MR. BAKER:"'8248 West ~Whitton --
I 13 INVESTIGATOR:
Whitman?
Di \\a}
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-14 MR. BAKER:
Whitton.:
W-h-i-t-t-o-n. Phoenik.
' 15
- INVESTIGATOR: Do you know:the zip code there?
'16 MR. BAKER:
85033.
17 INVESTIGATOR:.And your home phone?-
1 18 '
MR. BAKER:.- 849-3319..
19 INVESTIGATOR:
-And your present job title?
20 MR. BAKER:
Journeyman wireman.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
And your employer is Bechtel?
22 '
MR. BAKER:
Bechtel.
23 INVESTIGATOR:
How long have you been with Bechtel?
.y 24 MR. BAKER:
This last time would be about a year.
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-I had' worked for them before, after I'left Western
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About_a' year?
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MR. BAKER:
Yes.
Lasti March.
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- INVESTIGATOR:
March to present?
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s When'did^youcleave Western (inaudible)?
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~ MR. BAKER:
In~ March..
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'6 l INVESTIGATOR: ~-HowDlong were you with Western 7-(inaudible) ?
,8 MR.JBAKER:'
'A year.
9'
/ INVESTIGATOR:
This is Lou
, and.
.10 (inaudible).
t 11
- INVESTIGAT'OR:
Mr. Baker.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
He's the resident NRC engineer.here.
?
/'
13 INVESTIGATOR:
I know'you from your picture in the
.14 paper.
)
15 VOICE:
Oh, yes.
(Inaudible)..
I
.,g 16 INVESTIGATOR:. And your position with Bechtel is 17 ~
what?
18 MR.' BAKER:
I.was a foreman.
19 INVESTIGATOR:- And you were with them basically 20 '
what, from the end'of 1979 to March of '817 21
-(Inaudible.)
e, 22 INVESTIGATOR:. And how' about before that (inaudible l?-
23 MR.-BAKER:
Well, I was employed in town.
Corbin 24 '
Service.
s INVESTIGATOR:,Okay.
How about nuclear jobs; how
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' - MR.. BAKER:. Well,.IILworked at San /Ohofrelabout e h [,
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- INVESTIGATOR: How(long wereLyou-there?
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-i MR. BAKER: 1;Ab'out four' months --
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[INi/ESTIGATOR: - Any records!,--
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.L 7i MR. L BAKER:
Yes.-
8-
, INVESTIGATOR:
Who did:you' work for there?,,
.8 MR. -- BAKER:
Bechtel', (inaudible).
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- 10
-INVESTIGATORi Te11 me the year you (inaudible)..-
3111 MR. BAKER:. I went' in fin 1950'. startedC(inaudible).
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' 12 :
. INVESTIGATOR:
Well, what:we wouldilike to' discuss:
7
'13 w
lprimarily-is yourrknowledge of and association withLan 14 individual by the name of Jerry' Wright.'.(?).
(Unclear) -
q 15
-y assume by the period of time that'you.went to-s H
16 work'with the Western Charlie Wright was then
' 17
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already employed?
He was there when I worked'4S(inaudible) l
-18 MR.' BAKER:
! 18 f.
He'.d'been there'about a week or.two weeks'.
y c
INVESTIGATOR:
So you basically (inaudible) about?
Y 21 the same time?
W
.22 MR. BAKER:. Yes.
c 23 INVESTIGATOR:
And what was his position during-4 the period a time you were there?
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, MR., sBAKER:r.Hefoperated the machine.-
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INVESTIGATOR:
What was the total number of people 2
that were present at that time?
3 MR. BAKER:
There was three employees and one
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4 supervisor, and yourself, Ladd, Terry who is 5
now a supervisor and - (inaudible).
~
6 INVESTIGATOR:
Did they have any other electricians ?
7 MR. BAKER:
Well, a couple had worked there before 8
I got there, but they quit.
(Inaudible).
It stayed that 9
way for quite a while and then we would hire on and off, when
.10 we needed somebody to fill in (inaudible).
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Could you very briefly describe what 12 your responsibilities will do (inaudible)?
~
( ]
13 MR. BAKER:
Well, I was a working foreman, and I 14 worked right with Terry; him and I got all the hookups and 15 all the thermocouples, the works; and then when we got it 16 ready then we would fill (inaudible) Charlie Wright (inaudible) 17 was ready to run.
18 INVESTIGATOR:
Now,'you may not be aware of, our 19 primary purpose in life as a governmental agency is specifi-20 cally related to quality class safety systems.
The other 21 stuff, although we have a concern for it, legally it's not 22 the responsibility of NRC.
So primarily we're interested in 23 your associations and Charlie
's -- safety related.
24 MR. BAKER: Yes.
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25
' INVESTIGATOR:
During the period of time that you i
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, when did-Charlie Wright i.t
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- start havingiproblems?
3
~ MR. BAKER:
Well,7 you mean his statement that..he 'made that he was having problems with the --
5' INVESTIGATOR:
-- stress ---
^
6 MR. BAKER:
Well, there~was -- I never knew that-
'7
'heLwas having^any great problems, as far-as that goes.
~But.I 8
' don't-know of any time that (inau'dible)Lmake that statement 9L
'to the supervisor about something being wrong.
'e 10 LINVESTIGATOR:
Basically,.mn I safe to assume :that 11 jduring the period of a year and a half, approximately, Bill, 12 he was terminated that he never voiced any concerns about --
- ( j.
13 MR.. BAKER:
Not that I ever heard.
Not anything-v 14 wrong with the operation, as far as I know.
15 INVESTIGATOR:
Do you-recall when Charlie was m
16 terminated?
17 MR. BAKER:
Well, I think I had just quit before 18.
Charlie was terminated.
He was terminated a little, a couple 19 weeks before (inaudible).
20
-INVESTIGATOR:
So then somewhere around April of
-21 last year (inaudible) you-quit on your own?
22 MR. BAKER:
I quit on my own.
23
~ Okay.
The last few months that l
INVESTIGATOR:
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you associated with Charlie, late December to the. period of i
V-timethatyobleft, didyou-eherhearanycommentsrelative E
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Well, any' operator, you.know -- and s
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' then we. had..to straighteri up the problem if there is any 4-
' problem,;;iff:it's not r'unning correctly; is we h' ave to find 4
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There would be times-
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,that';aJthermocouple'would;come' loose,lsomething'like~that and 1
17
.we'd have.to'go check it.
(Inaudible).
_8
- INVESTIGATOR: ' Okay,'yes,.that's'in electrical --
(inaudible)'.
8-
. 10 VOICE:
~I'm talking.about that that~ Charlie was 11~
specifically~ responsible for.
.12 VO' ICE: -In the area-(inaudible) the machine wasn'.t 1
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c]a 13 operating correctly, and you couldn't get it.fixeEl, and --
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14
. VOICE:
No. :
(Inaudible.)'
They weren't'.used 15 unless.they were working correctly.
I. don't know of any time
- 16
.that' charlie -
he'might have had'a' kind of'(inaudible) with 17 hisloperation, but'-I don't know of'any< problem'he had.there.
~
18 INVESTIGATOR:- Did you have any supervisory' 19 responsibility for Charlie?
~
MR. BAKER:
No, I did not.
i 21 INVESTIGATOR:
Related crafts'--
22 (Simultaneous discussion. )
23 INVESTIGATOR:
You worked directly for the superin-
.24.
tendant?
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25 v.,AKER:
Yes.
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,s 1-INVESTIGATORx And that would be Steve Bell?
2 MR. BAKER.
Steve Bell, yes.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
Did St.cyn Bell ever mention anything 4
to you about Charlie being unhappy or complaining about, the 5
equipment was operating improperly or anything like that?
6 MR. EAKER:
Well, at the time Charlie would take, 7
maybe sonnthing wrong, but actually there was nothing wrong.
8 But as far as, Steve didn't say anything to me about it.
9 You know, if the (inaudible) machines were running were --
10 when they were checked out, if there was something wrong --
11 (inaudible).
But I don ' t know of any time that --. Steve didn' t 12 say anything to me about it, there being anything wrong with 13 the equipment.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Under normal circumstances, on an
- 16..
average, how did the normal workday progress?
Can you give 16 me some indication as to where you were located as far as 17 to -- do you work right with Charlie Wright, or was he at 18 one location and you at another, and did the electriciann do 19 their thing -- how much actual contact did --
20 MR. BAKER:
Well, we were in contact all day long, 21 pretty much.
We were in constant contact --
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Intermittently during this, time?
23 MR. BAKER:
Yes, we were. So that if anything did 24 go wrong with,it, we'd get right on it.
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25 INVESTIGATOR:
But I understand, based upon where i
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his counsel might be located, he wouldn't necessarily be 2
observing you working on, say, putting in a thermocouple, or 3
whatever.-
4 MR. BAKER:
You mean, was he right with us?
5 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, right with you most of the day.
6 MR. BAKER:
No,Ehe would be at this machine, and 7
we were --
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, was it safe to assume that 9
he would. perform his functions by himself rather than --
10 MR. BAKER:
Yes.
His portion of it.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
When did you first become knowledge-12 able of Charlie Wright's concern over, or allegations if you
~')
13 want to call them that, concerning the manner in which Western 14 had conducted the thermocoupling (inaudible).
15 When did you first become aware of that?
16 MR. ENKER:
What do you mean, in the latter part 17 of the --?
.18 INVESTIGATOR: No, whenever --
19 MR. BAKER:
(Inaudible).
Well, --
20 INVESTIGATOR:
What I want to know is when did you 21 first hear that Charlie Wright didn't like the way you were 22 say putting in thermocouples, or your attempting --
M MR. BAKER:
Well, I didn't hear -- he didn't tell 24 mejhe didn't like'the way I was putting them on.
s M
INVESTIGATOR:
When did you first become knowledgeable 4
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(inaudible)?'
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MR. BAKER:-
Well,-I' don't know.
Really, I d'on't 3
knovi
,4 INVESTIGATOR:- You've indicated that' Charlie never.
5, made a._ comment to you.
When did you first learn --
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'MR. ' BAKER:
Oh. -
-(Simul'aneous discussion.).
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.MR. BAKER:
(Inaudible.). That's when I first' --
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/9 that's what I'was-trying,to ---
10 -
INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
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MR'. BAKER:
That's when I first'found out that we-
'12 Lweren't supposed to be'~doing it right.
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13' INVESTIGATOR:
And that's'this year, then,.that --i
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)MR. BAKER:
Riglit.
y INVESTIGATOR:
And tha't would have ended' shortly.
c a.
(
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. inaudible) -- that_was.in May}27th, 1982. -So:
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16 :
,after'your c
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'18 MR. BAKER: -- I wasn't aware ofLanything until that
.19
' time; ~ that's when L-I (inaudible).
20' INVESTIGATOR:
Did you voluntarily --;
w.
' 21 -
"M R. BAKER:
I' volunteered, yes.
W
' 22 INVESTIGATOR: 'Did any management executives on-
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23 ;
.theusite, Bechtel, CAPS, attempt to force you:to go down --
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- (Inaudible.)
MR.' BAKER:
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' INVESTIGATOR: ' Strictly on your own?f
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1 MR._ BAKER: _ Strictly on my own.
I'came home from
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. work thatD evening and '(inaudible) paper (inaudible)..
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2 3
INVESTIGATOR:
And why specifically did.you.
4
_the newspaper?
~
L 5-MR. BAKER:
Well, I wanted to clarify our part of 6
it,ithat we weren't involved.
(Inaudible).
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INVESTIGATOR:'What specifically do you recall that-r
~
8
_ charges were incorrect?
'92 MR.' BAKER: 'Well, that statements had been made
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10:
that it~could'be' cheated on and'that the hookups and what 11 have'you were, you know -- (inaudible) the whole article --
12 (inaudible).
N-
. 13 INVESTIGATOR:
But you did make reference to that b
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- 14 article when you provided
-information-to the newspapers?
ac
, 15-MR. BAKER:
Yes.
)
16 ~
INVESTIGATOR:
You were apparently angry that 3
17 Charlie'had --
18 MR. BAKER:
I.was.
19 L
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'tions.
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21 MR. BAKER:
Yes, I was..
-I learned that I had been c
M named,.but it was not in the newspaper.
After I got the
(inaudible),; newspaper _ (inaudible).
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Had'been used?
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-Yes.-
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-1 INVESTIGATOR:
In the, in your newspaper. article 7 - 7 L/ ~ :
there's a comment to the effect-that Wright made the statement that'an electrician figured how to "fix" the test,~and that's 3.
4' in~ quotes; -he said just let.(inaud'ible) tilat 'are as much as 5
20 percent under required strength.
Did you object to that-6-
comment?.
7-MR. BAKER:.- Yes, I did - -
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Why?-
i9 MR. BAKER:
It wasn't true.
To all my knowledge,.
10 there was nothing done ill'egally or in any manner.
11
~ INVESTIGATOR:
And part of this comment;.they.
12
. quote you -- and newspapers are not necessarily (inaudible)'--
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13 -
MR. BAKER:
'No.
v 14 '
INVESTIGATOR:
They quote you'as saying, "I don.'t f15 know of any time this could have happened.
Everything was
~
16
- monitored constantly, and fixing the test would have.been very
'17l difficult." '
Let me take the first part of-it.
You don't 18.
know how this could have' happened.
Is there a manner in i9 which you feel that an ele'ctrician could bypass the' normal-20 company monitoring system?
21'
. MR. BAKER:
No, I don't myself.
I mean, I --
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- (inaudible) there is a way,-I don't know.
23
-INVESTIGATOR: - Okay.
The rest of that comment
<& A 24 is,that "Everything was monitored constr.ntly, and fixing the u
25 '
testrwould ave'been!vbry-diff$. cult."
Is that a-true statement? ~ i 4
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MR. BAKER':
That is a true statement.
I_ agree
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' with' (inaudible) to'tell you the: truth.
(Inaudible) he was
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3 constantly working with us.
4~
INVESTIGATOR:
Who,was-that-Bill?.
'5 MR. BAKER:
Donaldson,LJohn'Donaldson.
t 6-INVESTIGATOR:-
(Inaudible).
7-MR. BAKER:. He's' a -(inaudible).
18-INVESTIGATOR: How'often would Jack be'out'there 8-watching the operhtion?
10 "MR.
BAKER:
He's pretty much (inaudible).
11 And everything.that we run, Jack was checking it out.
.12 l
(. Inaudible. )
(
13
- INVESTIGATOR:
He would.look at thermocouple' 14-
. install'ations'?
15' MR. BAKER:
He checked' installation, the whole 16'
, works -- he.took.the leaders, monitored the. recording - -
-17 (inaudible) -- at the well andTat.the machine to make sure.
.18 that it was operating properly.
You would get the right 18 '
- reading.on the wire, what have you.
(Inaudible) not'to 20
.much resistance,Eso'forth.
4 -
INVESTIGATOR:
Did heIdo that on a daily basis?
22 MR. - - BAKER:
Not on every one of'them, no.
But.we-
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.- w hadto;--<wefchecked the. machine every so often.
That was 23.
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' INVESTIGATOR:
How closely did he monitor your-2
. activities when (inaudible) ?
'3 MR.: BAKER:
He was under pretty constant (inaudible).
4 (Simultaneous discussion. )
5 INVESTIGATOR:
And how about your QC representative ?
6 MR. BAKER:
They were -- well, (inaudible).
7 INVESTIGATOR:
Did they always meet all of their 8
required (inaudible)?
9 MR. BAKER:
(Inaudible.)
10 INVESTIGATOR:
Who did you normally have out of 11 QC? -Any specific individual?
Or did it vary?
12 MR. BAKER:
It varied.
I don't remember the man's 13 name.
It's.been quite a while since we worked on that.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you ever get any feeling at all 15 of maybe QC was not doing an adequate job?
16 MR. BAKER:
No.
From everything that I could see, 17 and as much as I knew about it, and I.believe I knew quite
~
18 a bit about it, that everything was going according to the 19 specifications.
(Inaudible.)
20 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you recall an individual by 21
' the name of Tiny Tim?
22 MR. BAKER:
Yes.
Tiny worked for a while (inaud-23 '
ible)'..
24 INVESTIGATOR:
'You recall Tiny's correct and
)
25 full name?
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.MR. - BAKER:' Oh,. heck'..
No, I. can' t' remember tliat.
1.
7
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.2 LINVESTIGATORj
.'Is-it William Compson?
- 31 MR.= BAKER:
'Yes.
I believe that's it.
41
' INVESTIGATOR:.What period of time was he employed?
-5.
,MR.
BAKER:
'Well, he came there a little.while
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- left, and'he was th'ere 1(inau' ible).'.He-must have d
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. been therb -about, Jabout. a imonth or so -before I lef t.
8 INVESTI' GATOR:
So then the first part of 1981 he.
19 fleft in. March, 1981?c
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MR. BAKER:
I'left.in' March..
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-INVESTIGATORi uSo he could have come-in' January ---
12 -
MR. BAKERi January, --
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- 13 '
_ INVESTIGATOR:
And you say he' remained'on after
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14 you'--
l 15 MR. BAKER:
He-wasithere after I left, and he
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16 wasclaid'off.
- 17
- INVESTIGATOR
Are you knowledgeable of,any)situa-18'
-tion in which-there was a conversation between Tiny Tim,
[
'18,
_dreve1 Bell,and. Terry y concerning '(inaudible) thermo-
~
. couples..
. 21 MR.' BAKER: 'The statement that was made-in that news.
t 4
1
_. paper;[butI. don'tknowwhathadhappened.(inaudible).
22 v-4
.Iftherewassuch'aconv'eYsation, 23 I -- (inaudible).
e 24 1 INVEhiTIGATdRS :
t
.,y
-Of,the individuals that were.
Jinvolved, -would there.be _.any reason why any of.thoseilirectly l.
g a -:
n, a
.A 16 l-
~
4
~.
111 Linvolved wouldhin.factiattempt t'o bypass the normal. manner' 3_Ic '
z2-
~in'which thermocouples were hooked up?
u MR. BAKER:
(Inaudible.')
3 4
24 INVESTIGATOR:
Would any of'the individuals
~
5.
pers'onally gain -.(inaudible).
6 MR. BAKER:. Wouldn't~ gain:anything; I don't know
~
7 why?they would do it.-
<8
' INVESTIGATOR:
(Ina'udible)-under-the contractual.
t obligation J(inaudible) ~.
9
. - 10
- MR.. BAKER:- By per inch and.(inaudible).,
'll-
- INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, right.
Is ther'Lany reason'fo'r them.to delay the' work; 112 e
13 would'they make additional money?
j 14'
-MR.-BAKER:.. No.
'No,-they would.not._
w 15 INVESTIGATOR:
Would'they in fact lose money?-
16:
MR'.
BAKER:
Well', there,---
-17 INVESTIGATOR: ' Based'upon'what you know.
18 MR.. BAKER:'
They've got to do'-so many' inches a day, 19 you know, and (inaudible).
1
,a
'M INVESTIGATOR:'
So.in reference to the conversation
, 3 21
.that apparently appeared,in.the newspaper article,-you have 22
- no perscinal knowledge ( as
- to what --
p
+-
,es 1
23
. MR., BAKER:
No (inaudible).
^I
.i i
INVESTIGATOR:
-- ever ekisted,.or --
' 24
- f-~s
. Q,];
M-
- [,""[M'RljBAKER
- "!T' don'trememberanythinglikethat.
3
y
.;, r d
1-
.-(Simu'ltaneou's discussion. )
.S( -.)
- v
~ '
2
-VOICE:
Your --
z
.N 3'
VOICE: 'Go ahead.
4 INVESTIGATdR:. From your knowledge o'f Tiny Tim, 5-
'he'had been involved-in any attempts to gimmy up --
'l 6-
~MR.
BAKER:. No.
t
' 7-INVESTIGATOR:
-- thermocouples?
"~
No, no.
I don't'believe that' type of 8'
'MR.
BAKER:
4 8-person would try sceaething ~like that.
He worked with Perry;
~ 10 most of the time at that time,-because I.was -- well, I was.a
~
11 working 5 foreman,'but I.was doing.other things, and' helped them.
-12 But'he was working right with him.
Terry, at that, time.
~
,a w()-
,13
'And he (inatidible).
~You-figure. Tiny was an expert i
14~
INVESTIGATOR:
v 15 '
wireman, as~an electrician?
f 16
.MR.
BAKER:
Well, I don'_t really know that much L:
^
' 17 '
about him;.I mean,-he done'what-Terry was -
Terry was the
>18
-experienced one working with him.
.So.he worked.right along 19 with Terry.-
20 INVESTIGATOR:
Terry would call the shots..
+
1 21 Let me read a comment to you.
If someone said, 22 involv$$ with-[inaudiEle)f "I inow how to wire thermocouples
^"
(
1 5
'y 23 to.give-you.a; reading-when you_ lose your thermocouple and thermocouple" would that make any sense to you?
L 24 j-):
the spare?
JV a,.
25 -
a $MR.? BAKER:
(Inaudible).
w E
a y
' 18 --
INVESTIGATOR:
Let me read it'again to you:
1 w
f'/
bc 2
"I.know'how~to wire the-thermocouples to give.you'a reading.'
u
. hen youllose your. thermocouple and you~1'ose;the spare w
- 3 4'
, thermocouple" -- ' could you 'do that as - (inaudible) ?
~
w
.5
. MR. 5 BAKER: ;If.you' hooked it up to.one of;the other 6
- thermocouples,iit would-read th'at. number.
And I-don't1know wh at--
7-INVESTIGATOR:
If:you lose <the one you're --
.: 8 (Simultaneous discussion.)
9
. INVESTIGATOR:
-- and you lose thIe. spare, is'there 10 any-mhnner in which you can-wire'the thermocouple to give t
11 you-a reading?' Would that'--
3 12
. MR. BAKER: The only way -- you could hook it up s
13 '
to~ the otherr area, c but -- I mean one' of the other thermocouple
['b -
s-
[us/L 14 :
-- but you wouldn't get the right reading, so:it would show
.15 up.
16-INVESTIGATOR:
In other words,;you'd11ose the one --
17.
MR.llNKER: LThe operator would know it. 'So you:
18
'couldn't-(inaudible) it past.-
That's just --
~
'19 INVESTIGATOR: 'So-basically that's --
20:
MR.. BAKER:
It would show up signed number, you'know, --
INVESTkGATOR:,'So,that (inaudible) doesn't really M
,g M
mean 'anything --
5 4
24 MR. BAKER:
No, it doesn't.
Because when.that f).
~ ~ -
.4 e
c
(,j M.
-temperature climbs,-you can tell how they're climbing, and l~
7 =-
7 319;
.i 3whatiarea'the: thermocouple'is located;in.
So it 's,very! --- I 1
..-s>.
2'
.: can ' t see. thatia person could :get ~. away.with 'it..
INVESTIGATOR:
Did you have'any respons'ibility',
'3 i
-4 1
4 or can-you yourself1evaluatecthe thermocouple charts that; 5'
are prepared -(inaudible)- hookup?.
'C-MR.(BAKER:
Well,'I could g a machin'e,'you know; Lwe<had beenLaround1it that'much'; we'could actually.run th'e:
i
'7-8
- machine ourselves' So we know the rate-of climb: and' the.
9:
' descent, when it was coming.backfdown.
L 10 -
INVESTIGATOR:
Where would you getethe parameters,-
J11?
where'.would you get the area of how-much you can allow -- a
~
12 1 rate of climb or.--
7) 13
-MR.
BAKER:
It!s on.the specifications:on your
/ W'.
~
Your-rate of climb'--
- 14 '
~ heet.-
s INVESTIGATORi Where is thath located?
15 '
~
.b N
- 16 VOICE:' On'your normal daily' operations
- 7
'17 VOICE:
.It's on y.our' daily sheet.
18 VOICE:
(Inaudible).
.19 INVESTIGATOR:
I realize:you've been away ---
20 MR. BAKER: 'Yes.
Well, actually, you know, I-21 didn't.get.in early in the morning.
I was doing my' work,
~
22 and just' maki'ng 'sure that' the stuf f was operating.
t.
We pretty much, you know, k'new what 23 24
%h.
was' going.on -- we,-,,_.
- (j :
..s 25 INVESTIGATOR:'
With that specification sheet
x-s; 4
ai
',2 0
' 1'. ~..'which'IJthink is' called the CIP,<would that be kept'at the if 't V
2.-
console?
-3'
-MR.. BAKER:
~Yes, it's kept;at the console.--But - -
4 fand.the QC man'wouid come around.and-check it.
15 INVESTIGATOR: 'An'd as far as'the operation of the 6
.thermocouples, you feel that you are knowledgeable enough to 7'
-interpret the --
8-MR. BAKER:
Charts.
9 INVESTIGATOR:
-- printout'or the charts?.
10 MR. BAKER:
Oh,-yes.
~
' 11 INVESTIGATOR:.When a thermocouple ~ starts acting:up
~
12 -
(inaudible), or it might be paralleled, or 'another one
(~]
- 13'
. substituted for -- you'think'you can see'that on the. chart.
V; if
-MR. ; BAKER:
We were knowledgeable ~enough on:that
. 15 to know what -
how the pipe heated in.the different areas, 16
- you know, as they '.(inaudible)...The' bottom would react.dif-17 ferent from the top,.the sides, et cetera.
~
18 INVESTIGATOR:
What's the specific purpose -- I'm 18 not an engineer -- but what's the specific. purpose-for putting s
20
.thermocouples on a large pipe; putting one.above and one below..
21 What's?theTpurpose*of',that?
~.
1 vm>
- ,,f
,o
~
MR. BAKER:
Well, you have -- like if we were AU
.t.
..23 heahing None would;havel--/of. course, we'd have them in A
' dif ferent --- } side ['spotj (inaudible) -- depending on the (inaud-24 Qf
- ible).
But say we had one on' top -- we'd have one located
.25
=
b
af:
21 J. gig
- 1-.
.here and one on that side. of the. well.
Because'there is a
~
4-y/
2' difference ~in.the heating ;.of the bottom, the heating of the
-3
-top;because.the heat. rises, an'd you get your. (inaudible)
?
'4 ~
the. top of.the pipe.
5
. INVESTIGATOR:
Who makes-the determination of-
~
6.
location?-
'7' MR.' BAKER:.
It's, (inaudible) ~by diagram.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, then, you!d strictly follow --
9
.MR.-BAKER:
Right.
.10 INVESTIGATOR: But what's:the overall purpose o'f 11
'h'eatin'g up-the pipe?
12 MR. BAKER:- Well it's to relieve'the stress'on the H.
- f') ~
13' wells ~.
And they. (inaudible).
.a 14 INVESTIGATOR:. If - you don 't (inaudible) correctly 115 -.
- or by the time element, whatloccurs in those pipe's?.
.16 MR. BAKER:
Well, it could ruin it.
It could ruin T17 the well if it wasn't done properly.
18 -
INVESTIGATOR:
So how important is~it,'for instance 19.
to'have (inaudible) -- how important is that as far'as 20 (inaudible).
I
' MR'. l BAKER:] It'sivery important (inaudible) 21
.~ n,,;
i
>+.
- c' 22 specifications. 7 Same thing (inaudible).
5 (Simultaneous discus ~sion.)
. 23 4
24 INVESTIGA'IOR:f Wh'atifs: so important about cool-down s
/
w 1
h
c.
N' 22 M
1 MR.- BAKER':
You can't. cool.it too fast, because it E [ 'i.
\\U
- 2 would'possibly crack (inaudible)' because of the surge of the i3
- coolant, you have to cool it to"certain degrees at certain'
~
4
' times.
4
[5-
-INVESTIGATOR:'
Do you have any feel for.how much 6
effect that would have on the strength of the-well,-' percentage
'7.
wise?
~
8
.MR.
BAKER: -Well,Lthis is like (inaudible) if 9'
you cool"it too fas't,~ it cracks, that's the way.I understand 10 i t'..
11
-INVESTIGATOR:
'Who makes the determination?
s I, understand the~~ firs't comment that--when they reach.suchLand L
~
12 :
J("'U,
"13 L such -- decreasin'g ofTthe heat (inaudible) that\\when you
. x,/
- 14 -
reach (inaudible) a degree, you cas just turnLthe -machine -
- 15 -
away and walk away (inaudible) good-sized _ pipe.
Who.makes 16 '
that decision?
l 17 MR~.
BAKER:
Well, it -- who-determines ---
18 -
INVESTIGAl TOR:
Who says you can turn off the-19
~
, machine and go? - Is that'done ---
'W VOICE:. Turn-off the machine, can't you? --
+
21' E(Simultaneous-discussion.)
~
~ 22 MR. BAKERi > Well, Steve --- the operator ' does.
a 4
(Inaudible).
But if there's any decision (inaudible).
n s
?,'i :L;s
,1 5
24.
INVESTIGATOR:
Well, I've heard the comment that
-~
MF
-certain pipe,.many' times _'somewhere around 600,>it doesn't
-.:n
/
r
.~
23-I.',
f 1-really'make that muchJdifference (inaudible).
- r ~ ',
,2 J
- MR.' ' BAKER
(Inaudible) certain feet,~1certain-
~
- - 3
- (inaudible ).
- 4~
~ INVESTIGATOR:- How di~d (inaudible).
5-MR.' BAKER:
Within a certain time frame.
6
- INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
As a general rule, how'did:--
7
'or' generalization,Lhow-did Donaldson and Tiny Tim,.
8.
and; Bunting'get along with Charlie Wright?1 What was the.
9' relation' ship _? ;
10 MR. BNKER:
Everybody got along.as farLas I'can see.
-11
' INVESTIGATOR:
.A' friendly type ~ environment?
~ '
12 MR. BAKER:
Yes.
j g
13 INVESTIGATOR:-lWas there any animosity between one, j w../,
14 ~
. individual ~-- one pipefitter (inaudible) an electrician,- a 1
15 -
pipe fit,te r,' two supervisors -
- (inaudible).
Any indications g-16
.'(inaudible).
117 MR. BAKER-No.
(Inaudible).
18 (Simultaneous discussion. )
'i 19 INVESTIGATOR:
Was'there any' evidence of argument.
15 -
betwe.en any of the individuals?.
c y.;,
1:J.
. 21 -
'MRY BAKER:
ho
~
We,got along as' far as I was
~
22 '
. concerned ~
- f. '!
- 1 a'
~
M l' INVESTIGATOR:
Was theregjcking --
s 24
- jy MR. BAKER:
Yes.
tg
'M INVESTIGATOR:
Horseplay?
f
f 24 1
MR. BAKER:
We always~ joked around --
2 INVESTIGATOR:
There was no indication that Charlie 3
who was upset about it?
4-MR. BAKER:
Oh, wel1, Charlie would get upset very
~
5 easily, of course -- getting upset; but that was just' Charlie' s 6
nature.
I don't '(inaudible) say, but he just -- it was his 7
attitude.
He got upset very easy.
There were a lot of times 8
he'd say, there's something wrong with that or 9
thermocouple;'we'd go check it. check it out; come back, tell 10 him it was all right.
But this is, you know -- of course, 11 sitting there by the machine all day, I can understand.
12.
(Inaudible).
/
13 INVESTIGATOR:
What were some instances where 14 he would become upset?
What would upset him?
Say a 15 thermocouple.
Are there any other situations?
16 MR. BAKER:
Well, sometimes say we didn't get 17 hooked up when we wanted to, and claimed we were going to 18 have to work over; he'd get a little upset about having to 19 work over; (inaudible).
INVESTIGATgR:
Didn't he care to work overtime?
20 21 MR. BAKER: Well, sometimes he liked it; sometimes-22 he-didn't.
23 INVESTIGATOR:
Did he ever extend his work --
24
_ (~]
(inaudible) overtime?
(Inaudible).
L_,/
MR. BAKER:
Did he do that?
}'
s 4,
~
25
't
- 1 INV5STIGATOR:
.Yes. -
d>J
- 2
)MR. BAKER:
No, I don't,believe he'wa's.
He
,r F 3' Joperated the machine, and we.could all go by what-(inaudible).
24 INVESTIGATOR:
So basically,'if I read-what you're-5 saying correctlp, that he'did.what~he was supposed to do; did 6..
.an adequate job, and performedihis normal functions.-
~
'7.
MR. BAKER:
He performed his -- he'did'tNe work.
'8-INVESTIGATOR:
In reference to his association with 9
'other people, was he_the bruht of a lot of a' lot'of jokes 10 i(inaudible). -
- 11.
MR. BAKER:
Jokes?
12 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
['Y 13 '
' MR. BAKER:
(Inaudible). ):
14
- INVESTIGATOR
- Was'there much joking. directed at-15
- _him,
. Charlie Wright.
16 MR. BAKER:. Oh,'well, sometimes you know you' laugh
.e L. > ~
17.
at somebody; get a'little'--
~
18
. INVESTIGATOR: - O h',' n o.
I meant other than. normal 19 '
work! relationships.
Was C'harlie-more the brunt of-the~ jokes 20 tha'n say ahy s o6her; member} of th'e ~ crew?
s
,r, i
21-MR.. BAKER:
Well,.we joked a lot of times-about 2
e c,
.c 22 Charlie not wanting ho' work, 'cir' something, you know --
23-(inaudible).
3 24 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever heard any comments
- [~3) v.
LM relative to Joe K
.?
(End of Side A.)
u
N
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>1; 3-No,.'I don't.
,l,5 b 32 -
A INTERVIEWER: :Did.you ever hear anything?~
_. [
'3:
- MR'. L BAKER
We.didn't-talk that.way becau'se
~
~~
? INTERVIEWER:
Did-you ever hear anything,to:the-1;,
4.:
15:
effect1that anyEoftlthe electricians said we know how-to wire-1
~; y
- 6:
around!.the;thernoccuples? ' Donaldson might have been present-
_ e
~
s 17 durin.g such 'a conversatiion ! and said: L don' t want to hearEthat 8
and' walked awayp~.which~..would' have' led someone to believe, 9_
isuch as Tony Wright,Sthatt ou were.trying to bypass certain'--
n j
10 Ohip t.might have been a: joke,.s'omebody i
, MR. (BAKER: -
- dropping an joke _or,something'-like;that'but.that wouldn't ill
~
?
t
- 12 1have'.been a jok'e because it --
nobody would try it.
[.
13 INTERVIEWER:'But(you are not personally. aware of y
!14
anything - ^
15
' MR. - BAKER:. No', J I 'minot.
- ?;:..
16 INTERVIEWER:;.If.-it did. occur.you'are saying it=
17.
.wouldThavelbgen strictly a. joke?;
~
_18 -
MR.. ; BAKER:
Yes.
.y J
19
' INTERVIEWER:
In regarditio relationships'between N
20 J individuals,Jdo you recall any cases when.there might have i
~,
.[;
i l. :
i 2
"~,y w.
11 -
' been 'some evidence that charlie,- you know you said he would e'
is there any' indica :
E 22 -
get-mad, allittle upset once in~a while, y-9 23 tion-he might have: held a' grudge against anybody?
~
..,A.
MR.~ BAKER:. !Well, if he did I don't think he would 24 3
u
' 26 use it-in his job.
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'.INTERVIEWE16 /I guess'wh'at'IIamLleading to, Jim,
~
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- r --
^
i.l y 2:
ris whati?geally. prompted' Charlie to make-those accusation's in-J "
A s.
.the newspaper?:
3
(
4
' Would that have been because he had _a grudge w
s 51 aga'instisomebody?
- .e f6
_ 'i.MR.
BAKER:
Yes, I think he was a little mad at-
~
i
~
- 7l
- Bechtel and I.'think he.was a little-mad at? Bell for layin.g s
8) him'off.
why he did.it.
J
.g1
! INTERVIEWER:
Nowfyoui,weren't employed at the t
10 :
time'he was laid off?-
t.
-W
- 11.
~
MR.. ' BAKER : - No,.I:wasn't.
INTERVIEWER: Would you'have any feel for why-he
'12 s
7"Y
- 0 l's -
' may have been laid ~off?
c
%/.
14 ~
MR. BAKER:-Yes, I-do.'
-He -- Charlie was~ awful 15 funny!"
If he' wanted to run-a. pipe, he'd run one.
He g
16 just (inaudible).
That was his' main reason that-CharlietgotG e
c
- 17
-laid.off; He'd come in_in';the morning and oh,Emaybe we were
. longer than he thought we should becto.hooksit up and,-maybe 19 -
- 10:00, something 'like that, ' and he'd ' turn around' and go home.
'l
~
ro ci
.20 INTERVIEWER:
He got paid for it anyway, I under'-
21' stand.
I don't know why --
22 MR.~ BAKER:
Yes,.. I'said tha t more than once, we 4
23 did, but --
24.
INTERVIEWER:
How frequently did that occur, or
[
3 1
' s.f 26' a situatio.n like that where he --
y
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a
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. 4 4-
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28 15rg3 1
.MR.
BAKER:
Every so often he'd come in and turn 2
.around and. leave early. Now that was my understanding and 3
Steve's attitude towardEit, ' that that was the reason why he 4
was laid off and.as far as'an operator, he was a good operator 5
I believe that's what got him laid off.
6 INTERVIEWER:
Did this occur over a fairly long 7
period of time?
8 MR. BAKER: No.
(Inaudible.)
He could have. fired 9
him but didn't fire him, he. laid him off.
10 INTERVIEWER:
Do you have any feel for why he didn' t 11 take this guy?
12 MR. BAKER:
No, unless it's just Steve's nature.
13 He-hated to fire anybody.
a 14 INTERVIEWER:
What is your opinion of' Steve Bell?
15 MR. BAKER: 'I like Steve very much.
16 INTERVIEWER:
Is'he hard to get along with?
17 MR. BAKER:
No. He wasn't hard at all to get along 18 with as far as I was concerned and if we ever had any differ-19 ences, we could talk-it out.
2 INTERVIEWER:
I guess he was your direct supervisor ?
s 21 MR. BAKER: Yes.
22 If I had anything concerning union then I could 2
go to Steve and talk things out and work it out.
There was
~
24 no problem there.
We got along very good.
25 INTERVIEWER: 'In reference to Charlie, the only i'
- L J
s-x
my 4
.- g % _ _
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1 M
l15rg4[
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,assumptionitliath (inaudible)) Charlie possibly>hadla-motive '
j iMT '
i'
$(inaudi ble). - That's thelway I: bee'it.
~
b
'.b 3
-3.
-You neve'r discussediit1with Charlic?L You h'd'no-a v
.4' 4 direct ~ knowledge of howiCharlie. felt?
3 5$
JMR.. BAKER:
Well', like I said, Charliefdrank'.ailot.
,u..
' INTERVIEWER: LYeah,'but after he"was terminated --
1 16-r N
7,
- MR. BAKER: '.I'didn't see him'after-he sas-terminated.
s 8-
-That's the first I4 heard offhim when he wrote that' article.
t
)
I-
..a_
, 9
~ INTERVIEWER:
.Do.you know:whether or.not he ever 110
, attempted to bring any1ofLthese concerns to the attention of' 11 -
-Bechtel orLAPS prior?to the'~ situation?
' 12 MR. ~ BAKER:
I don't know any time:when'~he carried --
[]'
13-
' approached Steve --
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14' INTERVIEWER: Steve or~Bechtel'or APS'or anybody or 4
15 :
the nuclear inspector onsite,.do you.know whether he ever 16 voiced his' concerns?L 17.
.MR.
BAKER: 'Not sure.
. 18 ~
INTERVIEWER: ~ Have you ever been asked:any. comments,
19 evaluations?
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20~
INTERVIEWER: 'Previously, say,a year.ago, did' 21' Janybody'come around and.ask anybody to. talk to Charlie?-
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..22
.Are you'avare of any situation at any' period of
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23 time that you'were with (inaudible) stress where you have, or
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any of'the recordkeeping or any of the docu.
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mentation or any of the work ever performed that could be
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MR. BAKER:
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' INTERVIEWER: 'That's it.
- We'll let'you go.
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All;righti;yes.
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INTERVIEWER: '.We hope.we' haven't kept.you toolmuch 1
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i 13 MR.. BAKER: 1I just.didn't want to make too many.
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- 14
- statements about C'harlie.
,. 15 -
(Simultaneous ~ conversation. )
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16 INTERVIEWER: -Thefinterview'was concluded at e.
~End.
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17 0835 hours0.00966 days <br />0.232 hours <br />0.00138 weeks <br />3.177175e-4 months <br />.
1" Interview.- -.
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