ML20128N441
| ML20128N441 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/17/1982 |
| From: | Schuh J BECHTEL GROUP, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20079P594 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030275 | |
| Download: ML20128N441 (17) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
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Interview of John H. Schuh 1
Docket No.
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Location:
Pages:
Date:
June 17, 1982 d
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TAYLOE ASSOCIATES Court neponen 1625 I Street S.W. Sc;te 1004
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INITED STATES OF AMERICA l
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I
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6 7
Interview of John II. Schuh 8
9 10 June 17, 1982 Palo Verde Nuclear Station 11 12
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13 s,s -
14 Investigators:.
E.
J.
Power 15 Owen Shackleton 16 17 18 19 20 21
- 22 23 24 N.
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I EE9EEEEIEEE 2
INVESTIGATOR:
This is an interview of Mr. John 3
H.
Schuh, last name is spelled S-c-h-u-h.
Mr. Schuh is an 4
Electrician presently working for Bechtel Power Corporation 5
at Unit No.
1, the Palo Verde Nuclear Generation Station.
6 Present to conduct this interview from the NRC 7
is E.
J.
Power and myself, O. C. Shackleton, Investigators 8
assigned from Region V.
8 Mr. Schuh, do we have your permission to tape 10 record this interview?
11 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, you do.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
Thank you.
13 (Pause. )
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I
I i
'7 y
1 (Speakers off mikes, inaudible.)
2 INVESTIGATOR:
John, the next issue is splicing 3
a quality class safety-related cable.
We have an allegation 4
that some cable that was damaged by welding slag or hadn't been covered by a. welding blanket, and rather than de-terminad 5:
6 it and pull it, a shrink tube kit was used and the damaged 7
area wac covered up; other cables were pulled over so it 8
couldn't be seen, and they went on about'their business.-
9 Have'you ever known any situation like that?
10 MR. SCHUH:
This has not happened to.my knowledge..
11-Now let me tell you this, -- (inaudible) I'd say a year in
' 12 that round -- you know, it could have happened before my time; 13 I cou-ldn't tell you.
Not to my knowledge'and not since I've~
14 been on the crew.
15 INVESTIGATOR:
You (inaudible) basically?
16 MR. SCHUH:
Yes.
I come from a terminating crew, 17 Joe Sandival's to the high voltage.
18 INVESTIGATOR: ' Can you splice a quality class?
- 19
..MR. SCHUH:
Yes,f I can.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
I mean, are you authorized on'the-21' site to do it?
I didn't mean from your technical performancec 22 but if it's required, procedurally can.you splice a quality 23 class cable?
Or what would be the circumstances in which you ' (inaudible).
Under what circumstances.'can you do --
24 25 MR. SCHUH:
As far as terminations on --
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8 1'
INVESTIGATOR:-
Not terminations;.a' splice.now.
.2' f
MR. SCHUH:5 -No, no you can't..
That, I've never:
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3
-done.it~and I've heard'that-they don't.do it.
4:
-INVESTIGATOR:- That's what I'm interested iri.
2 5
MR. SCHUH:
Okay..
6 Don't try to stump me',-because I --
7:
INVESTIGATOR:
Oh, no, no, no.
'We're not --
8-(Simultaneous discussion.)
1 9
INVESTIGATOR:
Any question that you1 don'tfunder-10
' stand; we're not electricians, we're investigators.
We're.
y 111 inot attempting to put you in a position to say Hey, you justi
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'12 (inaudible).
I want to make'sure that you understand ~the 13 iguestion so that we understand your answer.
-14 MR. SCHUH:
Okay, what I know of, I've never done
.15 one and.I've-heard that they don.'t.
So we'll put'itHthat way.
- 16,
' INVESTIGATOR:.Do you know whether orinot.that's
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17 procedurally wrong;=where it's in writing ~that you don't splid 18 '
n.
19 MR. SCHUH:
No.
I.couldn't state my.viewfon thati 20 INVESTIGATOR:
You've never had' access toLthe a
.21' procedures --
22
-MR.
SCHUH: 'Right.
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INVE'STIGATOR: ' John,-the last subject has to 24
'do.with following cable de-termination procedures.
We have 25 '
.allegationsithat some of.the men'doing terminations ~have done m
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_ the-termination and they just bought off by QC, and they go 2
off to do some other work and then eventually.they get_back im 3
.the same area to do some work and they find the terminations 4
that they've done before have been de-terminated by.somebody 5
and been re-terminated and maybe done not as neatly as had 6-been done originally by the craft, and may not even be'done 7
properly.
And there's no documentation nor was there any QC 8
involved.
9-And the allegation we have is it's being done by 10 Startup.
Have you had-any experiences like that?
11 MR. SCHUH:
I haven't actually seen, but there was 12
- an instance that came up -- I couldn't tell you how far back 13 that Startup had done something like that through human y
14 error.
One thing through.the other, steps weren't taken but y
15 they were -- I know they jumped cn1 it and they corrected 100 16 percent, you know, what it should have been and jumped on 17 Startup for doing it..Like I said, this is, you know, we're-
'18
_all human, and something like that's going to come up through 19 all these years of terminating.
20 INVESTIGATOR: What we're really concerned about, 21 is it a continuing problem?
22 MR. SCHUH:
No.
- U INVESTIGATOR:
You haven't had that experience.
24 MR. SCHUH:
No.
I can definitely say no.
25 INVESTIGATOR:
The next subject matter addresses
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-the use of a' type of: insulation material'used'on'high voltage 2 -
' terminations, Land what-I'm referring to is that we have infor-3-
'mation that'in effect that there was a problem'here'for a
'4
. hile, they were using a product' called Scotch Fill.
And' w
5 because of the high temperatures that we experience out here 6
in the desert. climate, the stuff was melting, and a lot of it
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.was running out of the terminations.
And so they changed and 8
went to 130 C.
Is that --
~ 9 MRi SCHUH:
Yes, this did happen.
And to my 10
' knowledge, I think they took and went over every* single one 11 of them joints, or anything that was made up of that,'and-12 I know I've done a lot; re-wrapped and took off the stuff.
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And so that would be up to engineering, depending if it was 14
' fulfilled as far as -- covered the whole job, I am sure it.
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was.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you do some of the retrofit on-17 safety-related?
18' MR. SCHUH:
No.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
The next-issue, John, relates to-
'8 a situation where -- (end of recording side).
6'sideA:
21' MR. SCHUH:
-- at first, but now the engineers e
22 were' letting us use a spacer bolt in there as far as making 23 it up (inaudible).
24 INVESTIGATOR:
What do you do now, specifically?
5 You used'to put a bolt --
2
e 11
'l MR. SCHUH:
Well, now they're letting us do that.
2 Before it was just one hole without a (inaudible).
3 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you wrap it then, or what?
4 MR. SCHUH:
Yes.
Yes, we went through the wrap 5
with specs and the tape and so forth, put on a motor kit.
6 It depends on what kit they want you to use and what circum-7 stances are involved.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
The next question relates to 9
QC inspectors.
In your opinion, the QC people that come and 10 inspect your work, John, do you feel they are doing an 11 adequate job, that they appear to be adequately trained?
12 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, I do.
I feel that they are 13 adequately trained, but I also feel that in every, form of 14 life, whether you go priests, electricians, you people, you've 15 got better and you've got worse.
And that's all I'll say 16 on that.
17 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you have skillful people on 18 that?
19 INVESTIGATOR:
But overall, basically they're 20 doing an adequate job as far as the check on --
21 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, as far as -- yes, I feel that way.
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever had any experience, 23 John, where you've observed or heard of where QC inspectors 24 have been intimidated by construction management; foremen, 25 GFs, superintendent where an example would be where a QC
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felt that something should be red tagged and a foreman tells 2
- him not to hang it, and so h'e doesn't.
3' MR.-SCHUH: No,,that's not --
4 4
INVESTIGATOR:
Why I'm asking you, do you feel
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5 QC is allowed to,do their job freely here?
'6 MR. SCHUH:
Carries their suthority?
7 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
8~
MR. SCHUH:
Yes, I do.
9 INVESTIGATOR:
Have.you done any high pot testing?~
10 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, I have.
11
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INVESTIGATOR:
One of the problems that has been 12 brought to-our attention is that some of the lines have been 13 high potted more than one time.
Have you ever seen any 14 excessive high pot testing?
15 MR..'CHUH:
That I have ever done; no, and to my S
16 knowledge, I feel I haven't seen-one over twice that has 17 been done.
If something comes up, like if_we have a direct 18 line from'the panel and you've got to label (inaudible)-come 19 up and hook your line up, something like that; well of course 20 you're going to have to shut the baby down and start it over 21 again, but that's about what I'm talking about as far as 22 having:to be done more than once.
INVESTIGATOR:
John, do you have any installations 24-where you brought -- I guess it has'to be through a conduit; 25 a termination into a box where you use O rings; you know they-
r 13 1
have a fitting at the_ top, and have an O' ring
, to 2
give it integrity from water?
3:
- MR. SCHUH:
Right.
OZ terminators?
.I.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
I don't know.what they call them.
5 MR.JSCHUH:
Uh-huh.
6 INVESTIGATOR:
You've done some of those?
7
.MR. SCHUH:
I've done one.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
8 MR. SCHUH:
I got on the crew a little later,'they M'
were doing quite a bit of them.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you always had the o rings you 12 needed, or -- you only did one.
Did you.have an O ring'for 13 that--one occasion?
- 14 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, we did.
15 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you ever hear any discussion IO amongst the craftsmen that-there were times when--they didn't 17 have O-rings?
18 MR. SCHUH:
No.
I always thought that it was --
U-we had to take'one out one~ time in a turbine; they had to saw it :in half and-different things like that. -They had it -- due 21' to th'e Three Mile-Island change, they had to take this~ baby 22 out.
We had-to saw that in half and as far as moisture fil1~
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-or anything else, I was very impressed the way that, you know, 1
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device functioned.
Very impressive.
2 INVESTIGATOR:
The allegation was that there was l
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a period of-about six months when there were no'O rings-2 available-and.some installations'-- they were told to' keep on 3'
. going.
And we're trying to find out of that's true.
4}
MR. SCHUH:
Not that I know of.
-5 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever observed or heard of 6~
a situation where they're doing core drilling to make a'pene-7 Ltration'in the wall to-run another pipe, conduit or cable, 8
and they've hit an existing conduit and done damage to it?'
9'
. MR. SCHUH:
No, I haven't.
10
_ INVESTIGATOR:
And the last item,' John, is not
~ 11 having anything to do directly with your craft, but with a 12 problem that we' face all over'in the country, and that is y
13 your opinion or observations or knowledge of the uselof 14 controlled drugs on the-site.
What I'm. talking aboutLspecifi-15 cally is.use of marijuana, amphetamines, hashish, cocaine.
16
.We know we've got.it here because we' ave had substantial 17 information given.to us,.but we're trying to determine how 18 big a problem we have.
Have you observed it or known of it, 19 '
or --?
20' MR. SCHUll:
I would say like you.
I would'say 21
.it's probably out here, but I haven't seen none of it.
The 22' use of it -- you know,-I never deal with the stuff and I 23 don't.sce anybody in the crews or anything else.
But-that's 24 not saying it's not here.
25 INVESTIGATOR:
I understand.
Have'you smelled pot A
f?
15
-w-1 smoke when you'were working, or --
2 MR. SCHUH:
Yea, you'll pick up f'umes of it.
It's 3-not at other -- the job has slacked down, you don't ever see p.
4 it anymore, you know.-
But yes, I think it's. apparent that 5
it's out here.
6' INVESTIGATOR:
John,-is there any situation out 7
here or hardware or procedure relating to safety-related 8
equipment that you think that our Commission, the NRC, ought
'9 to give attention to that you feel is not being. properly 10 addressed?
11~
MR. SCHUH:
No, I really don't.
I feel the 12 people have the time and time to get the material and.the
{
13
' men'have the time to put it in, and I think everything is 14 pretty qualified work'here, and it. runs pretty smooth.
15 -
INVESTIGATOR:
You've answered my next question.
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16
.Apparently you feel satisfied with the work you've observed?-
17 MR. SCHUH:
I do.
You know, I' don't -- you give a 18 man a certain amount of time, and you have the check by 19-engineering staff, you have the check by-QC; I don't'see 20 really.any fault in it, you know, as far as poor craftsman-21 1 ship putting it in.
I don't see how -- because if'somebody 22 sees a-bad-run of pipe,'usually the.next day ~somebody is out 23 straightening it up even if it's nothing to do with' safety
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24 or anything, just to keep the crafts.
You know, we're having I
25 '
.a hard time battling non-union now, and I'm sure I feel like
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~a hundred others of us; all's.we got is our qualification l'
2 to show, you know, and our skilled labor.
That's the way h
3 I-feel.
- - 4 INVESTIGATOR:
Gene, do you have any additional y
5
- questions?
6~
INVESTIGATOR:
Nope'. I just want to know if you
~~
7-know a couple guys.
Do you know a Mike Ostad -- is it Mike
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8 Ostad?
- 9 INVESTIGATOR:
Mike Ostaff?
10 INVESTIGATOR:
That may be.
I don't know if 11 that's the. correct pronunciation.
12 MR. SCHUH:
He might be a -- if'it's who I'm
- 13
-thinking of, he'.s a wire pour foreman.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
A wire. pour foreman?
15 MR. SCHUH:
Yes, now I think his name's Oswalt.-
- 16
-INVESTIGATOR:
Oswalt?
17 MR. SCHUH:
Yea, now I might be, you know --
18 INVESTIGATOR:
No, that's all right.
19.
MR. SCHUH:
There's a ton of guys out there.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
I think there are 900-some 21 electricians.
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, there's a slew of them out there.
. 23 How about a Jim Williams?
24 MR. SCHUH:
No, I don't.
25 '
INVESTIGATOR:
Jerry Stewart.
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MR. SCHUH:
No',.I don't'know.
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- INVESTIGATOR:,
Okay.
I '11. term'inate..this in'terview 'now, and-we thank 3
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--you vary much, John.
The time-isinow:approkimately 12:53 p.m.
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