ML20128N170
| ML20128N170 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/29/1982 |
| From: | Nunez H BECHTEL GROUP, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20079P594 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8506030190 | |
| Download: ML20128N170 (45) | |
Text
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s INTERVIEW OF NUNEZ
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Case No.:
5-82-009 Transcript of tape Hector R. NUNEZ recorded interview of:
General Foreman-Ele'ctrical Bechtel Power Corporation Date'of Interview:
June 29, 1982 Interviewers:
Eugene J. POWER and Owen C. SHACKLETON Jr.,
Investigators, NRC Purpose of Interview:
To obtain NUNEZ's responses to allegations made by Robert D. GUNDERSON Jr.,' Electrician, who formerly worked from April'1980 to March 1982 on Unit 1, PVNGS, in'one of the t.
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electrical termination crews under NUNEZ's rFcr ; J,71^
supervision.
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, 1,ocation of Interview:
NRC Resident Inspector's Office, Ji i Construction Building, PVNGS
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Conditions of Interview:
Interview was conducted'with NUNEZ under
, oath.
4 8506030190 831110 PDR FOIA BERNABEB3-A-9 PDR
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' INTERVIEW OF NUNEZ SHACKLETON:
... interview of Mr. Hector NUNEZ, first name is spelled "H" as in " Henry" E-C-T-0-R, no middle initial, and the
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1ast name is spelled "N" as in " Nancy", "U" as in " uncle",
.. "N" as ' in " Nancy", "E" as in " easy", "Z" as in " zebra."
Mr. NUNEZ is a General Foreman for the Bechtel Power Corporation in the electrical field presently assigned to the Palo. Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona.
Present to conduct this interview from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission is Mr. E. J. POWER and myself, Owen C. SHACKLETON. Mr. POWER and myself are investigators for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission._
assigned'to Region V in Walnut Creek, California. This -
interview began at 8:30 a.m. on June 29, 1982, at which time I advised Mr. NUNEZ that his appearance he're was Y
i voluntary and he.could leave at any time. Mr. NUNEZ l
agreed to conduct this interview and was placed under oath by me.
I advised Mr. NUNEZ of the laws that are applicable for a person testifying under oath. Mr. NUNEZ, e
do I ha've your permission to tape record this interview?
E+l Yes, sir.
NUNEZ:
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SHACKLETON:
And also, Mr. NUNEZ, you requested a copy of the transcript of this interview, is that correct?
l' NUNEZ:
Yes, sir.
j SHACKLETON:
I will see that the_ Commission provides to you a copy of r
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2 the transcript which will be typewritten in our office and then mailed directly to your home. And now we will begin the ' interview. Gene, do you want to start, please?.
NUNEZ:
Excuse me...
SHAC}1ETON:
Uh-huh?
NUNEZ:
....an initial. I do have a...
SHACKLETON:
Oh, you do.have an initial?.0.K. '.We got it off the
- l payroll and it showed no middle initial.
NUNEZ:
"R".
I SEACKLETON:
Middle initial is "R".
Thank you.
y.
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POWER:
0.K.
What are the procedural requirements for E
preparing termination cards here on the site?
NUNEZ:
Would you repeat that again, sir?
I POWER:.
Yeah. What are your procedural requirements? Do fou.have s
a written procedure for presaring termination cards?
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- NUNEZ:
I don't prepare the cards, it says...
POWER:
No, what I meant... Bechtel does.
7 NUSEZ:
Yeah, there is a procedure that at this time I am not familiar with the work line procedure that ti.ey have.
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- POWER:
Do you get involved with the termination cards?
NUNEZ:
Yes, sir I do.
Only from the standpoint of terminating,
the conductors.
POWER:
What does this involvement entail? What part do you play.
in this. operation?- You know, the termination card when it comes out of this corputerized system through engineering to yourself and...
NUNEZ:
It comes to me, to the superintendant, Reggie JOHNSON. At that time, we read the card as to the location, equipment, cable number, termination numbers and proceed as instructed in the card.
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POWER:
0.K.
And you disseminate that to various foremen under 5 I'
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N JEZ:
Yes, sir.
POWER:
How many, how many foremen do you have?
E NUNEZ:
At,this time, I have three'. foremen.
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W-POWER:
How many, how many did you have, say, six months ago?
NUNEZ:.
Possibly a1x foremen I believe.
1 POWER:
Rad a reduction?
NUNEZ:
A reduction in force.
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Uh... On Unit 1, what would be your estimate of the' number of termination cards prepared? Any idea?'
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NUNEZ:
No idea.
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POWER:
Several thousand?
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e NUNEZ:
Yes, sir. In the thousands.
POWER:
What happens when.there is either a lost, misplaced ;
j damaged, or otherwise unavailable termination card? Have you ever been faced with that problem?
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NUNEZ:
The only area that I sa aware of at.this time that I recollect is that a tool box was stolen in the field, c,r - '
a possibly removed from the work area of *.the electrician.
There was a few cards in it, possibly six. I am.not surE r
of ti e number but... and that's the only ones that I knok
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of that have been actually lo'st in the field.
Engineering has come back to Reggie JOHNSON saying that the cards are i
mot available in the cabinets I guess that they have, whateve'r system they use, and they. issue out a new card to i
reterminate.
4
- 1s POWER:.
That's not a normal recurring basis when they come back to
.s engineering?
NUNEZ:
Would you repeat that again?
l POWER:
Yeah.
Is that just that one instance or is that a normal i
requirement or a normal commitment where engineering comes l
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to Retgie JOHNSON and says we have s6me...
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- NUNEZ: -
I was speaking of a particular case that I knew of the tool box that had been misplaced or...
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POWER:
When, when did that, occur? Do you recall? Roughly?
~ NUNEZ:
You could probably find out through the....
. POWER:
A year ago? Six months ago?
J' NUNEZ:
I would say roughly a year aso. And those card' were s
reissued through engineering for retermination. The cards had not been terminated yet.
POWER:
Allright. That was before the fact, then? If the
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card... if you issued the cards to subordinate foremen
'and then,'of course, they their crews, how do they come
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t back? From the original electrician? Can you reverse the;'
t process and tell me how they get back through you?
NUNEZ:
- As I said before, the cards are issued to me...
I POWER:
Right.
h' NUNEE:
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through supervision, uh, I assign the cards to a
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different foreman, either by the billing or the work areas w.
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and we go together and look the situation over in most i
iy cases, uh, what's required, what's necessary to do the job, uh, he in turn gives to the wireman. and explains to him whatever conversation we might have had on it and the wireman goes out in the field and tries to terminate it to the best of his ability, to the design of the card, any
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proble6s he will either flag it or log it into the side of I
the card, come back in explaining to the foreman when he
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cannot do that particul.tr termination, and the forsman brings it to me and we try to resolve it in the field the best've can, uh, sometimes it might mean equipment or scaffolding in the way that needs to be removed; it doesn't have to be an. engineering problem.
Other times, we have to go through engineering and define terminal points and give us a better location as to where the indication of the card is in reference to the termination.
3 POWER:
0.K.
And as either the work is completed or its disposition, what happens to the completed termination card?
NUNEZ:
As the work 1:' completed, the wireman brings it to the i
. foreman, the foreman logs it in a notebook that we've more7 or less made our own logging system. He'.uses a pink color-
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for a problem card, a green color for a completed card,. 3 p
without any problems. That goes back into Reggie JOHNSON!
He goes back into the system back to engissering. Where it goes frem there, I don't know.
POWER:
How lon's have you been ut1lizing this, I understand a book for a, to track...
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NUNEZ:
Almost since the day that it started...
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a POWER:
Oh.
NUNEZ:
We started finding out that we were having to trace our work and had no way of really. finding out who did it POWER:
Yeah /
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7 NUNEZ:
... or, so we determined that it would be a problem in i
the future, so we decided to have some means of keeping track...
POWER:
But, yeah.
Other than that one instance that you related,
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let's say approximately a year ago, or whatever, has there been any other situations where engineering has prepared l
or made duplicate cards and sent them to the field for whatever reason, for... to show that the documentation gets back into their computerized system?
NUNEZ:
Yes, sir.
They have.
POWER:
What circumstances, then?
NUNEZ:
Uh, they found it determincted or that'.somebody other
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than our effort, either they claimed it was a lost card or j
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a misplaced card...
POWER:
Teah... shat happens in a situation like that? There's a lost or misplaced card for work previously completed?
NUNEZ:
b.
I issue the work back out to the foreman.
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-POWER:
0.K.
And you get the cards again from engineering?
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f NUNEZ:
Uh-hub.
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POWER:
From Reggie to you?
, NUNEZ:
Right.
s POWER:
0.K.
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g NUNEZ:
... and back up to the foreman.
I instruct the foreman to have a wireman go out and look the situation over, to aee if we can analyze why it is it has to be ~ reworked, whether it's fault of the wireman or fault of engineering" or whatever, and the cases that has to be resigned or documented by-the wireman, he's supposed to cut the lugs off that are terminated, re-lug it, enter his new tool number in it, date it, and cut basically a new card, a new I'
~ termination system.
POWER:
A new termination. Other than those situations where it's reworked, and I'm not interested in those, I'm primarily interested...
NUNEZ:
I didn't hear that, sir.
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-POWER:
I'm not interested in the re-work ones.
I'm interested 3 in those where the work was satisfactorily completed on 7 primarily class Q cable, now. Have you ever had a situation where the individual vent out'and determined that it's already been terminated properly. Then, then i
what happens? Then the,w1 reman goes out and looks at it?
NUNEZ:
They're' supposed to reterminate the wire.
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POWER:
They're supposed to?
NUNEZ:
They're supposed to reterminate wire.
POWER:
Is that in writing?
NUNEZ:
No, tfie instructions go from me throu'gh the foreman to reterminate the wire.
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9 POWER:
Orally?
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NUNEZ:
Yes, sir.
POWER:
In all cases?
NUNEZ:
I would.say that in all cases, yes'.
Because it must have been misinterpretation between me and the foreman 3'
back to the wireman that they're supposed to look at it, reterminate, use new lugs...
POWER:
Are there any, uh, written instructions or procedures as to what a wireman or electrician can do in these situations for these lost / misplaced cards?
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NUNEZ:
Not to my knowledge.
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i POWER:
Not to mine either.
I just want to make sure we don't
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misunderstand the situation.
(Pause)
What instructions do you receive when you get the cards from Reggie JOHNSON on... in such instances when they are lost or misplaced?
What do'es Reggie say to you?
+ ?m NUNEZ:
Be...
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Does he give yot, any specific instructions relative to POWER:
lost / misplaced cards?
.NUNEZ:
To go check this card out and reterminate it.
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- POWER:
Is that.what he generally says...
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NUNEZ:-
That's what he generally says. He.says that it's besu
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lost.
Go find out what happened to it... you know...
j POWER:
Have there been any situations in.which you~have directly-given instructions to a foreman or an electrician to
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complete the card without looking at the work?
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NUNEZ:
Complete a card without looking at itt i:
POWER:
Right.
In other words, sign a new termination card l
and give it back to the foremen or yourself and go back into the system.
i NUNEZ:
I can't recall that ever... I've always asked them to look the work over.
t POWER:'
You can't recall.
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'h'UNEZ:
No.
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'Cause we have testimony,to the effect that you have, in POWER:
fact, made those statements to electricians that you weren't really interested in them looking at the work.-
They wanted a card signed anil forget about looking at it.
g Have there been any situations where an electrician could g
infer from your conversation that that's what you wanted?
1 NUNEZ:
Possibly it may have been his work that he had done t
within a-few days or whatuver...
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. POWER:
No.
I'm not referring... I'm talking about work that he didn't initially do.
You know, fo'r foremen I mean if
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an individual goes back out and looks at his own work, 6
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.11 that doesn't give.ma heartburn at all. That, that's like did you paint this wall? And you come back tomorrow and you say yeah, that's the same wall I painted.
I'm not verried about that situation.
I'm talking about a situation where the electrician did not do the initial work.and has been asked to sign.a termination card for i
work that he did not complete.
NUNEZ:
No, sir.
POWER:
Have there ever been any situations...
NUNEZ:
Not that I can recall at this time, sir.
SHACKLETON:
We have...
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NUNEZ:
We usually try to get the work to the best of the j;
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. logging system we have is, is reasonably traceable to the.
individual that originally did the work unless he's not
- here, he has been terminated.
POWER:
How, how frequently do you receive lost or misplaced...
L how frequently do you receive new cards for lost or misplaced termination cards? How often does it occur?
NUNEZ:
It isn't very often.
I...
t m-POWER:
How many in a week would you estimate? As an average?
NUNEZ:.
We go weeks without anything at all.
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i POWER:
Two at the most? Say five a month? How many in the last year have you... your estimate, really?
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- NUNEZ:
I, I have no positive knowledge to this fact...
POWER:
0.K.
Would you say 50 in*the last year?
I'm just trying-to get a figure for a problem if a problem exists, and I'n very much interested in what you believe.to be the total
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amount that NUNEZ:
Fifty is way too high, I believe.
POWER:
Wey to high? Under 50 then?
NUNEZ:
I think that POWER:
More than 10 but less than 40?
.Y NUNEZ:
Strictly as a guess I say in that range ~.-
POWER:
Can you put it any closer? The reason I am asking for a I guess, we have other individuals that are making allegations and they are giving us certain figures and I'm just trying to make a determination of how many cards that are going back through this system, and we're really attempting to make an evaluation of a technical problem 4
that...
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NUNEZ:
I understand.
POWER:
... electrical engineer.
I'm not trying to tie you down to 31, and then say oh, we found 32. That's not the point at all.
I'm trying to get an. understanding of the situation.
s NUNEZ:
I think less (unintelligible) 10 to 40.
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' POWER:
Ten to 407 'Then over the last couple of years, you l
wouldn't expect more than_a hundred cards?
_ NUhT.Z:
'As a loss, re-work, duplicate?
POWER:
Yeah,~ yeah.
NUNEZ:
I would say upper 30.
POWER: -
That would'be high side?
NUNEZ:
Plus or minus.
SEACELETON:-
See, Hector. The Safety Licensing Board, they want to
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- know how big the problem is,,and that's what we're tryingl to astrow down. - In this case, as I understand it, uh, Reggie JOHNSON ~1s the first person to receive notification r
t or get a new card to replace a card that is lost...
NUNEZ:
Yes, sir.
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SHACKLETON:
... and then because you're the number 1 nan, he gives it to you because the foreman'all report to you.
NUNE.7.:
Right. And then I issue it to the foreman with the
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-instructions and usually we try to get it back to the particular individual'that originally did the work and, in most cases, we can tell because the same cable number will be on the new card...
POWER:
Teah.
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14 NUNEZ:
... traceable to the notebook tha't he have out there and we, and...
t POWER:
Who, who reviews that book to determine if 'the individual that initially performed the work is available and he
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'wasn't terminated or transferred or...?
NUNEZ:
That's in the foremen's shed.
I'm,.I'm... it's
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available to me and the foreman or anybody that...-
POWER:
Yeah, but no, what I'm saying do, do the foremen actually go back to the book if they end up with some new cards
...?
NUNEZ:
Well, yeah.
I, I'm with him in most cases where we have -
a new card done.
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c POWER:
How can you identify new duplicate termination cards?
. 5-How do you know it's a new card? _.
I NUNEZ:
I've been instructed in most cases that it's a duplicate card.
POWER:
0.K.
Then there's nothing.on the card that identifies it f
as a duplicate.
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NUNEZ:
There's nothing.
F0WER:
When these go back to the foreman, have there been any situation... or the electrician... have there been any situation where you have directly provided a card to an electrician to prepare a new termination card? Over, say, the fast six months? Without going through a foreman, you know, an electrician walks in, whichever, Jones or Smith, 9
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'15 and you hand him a new card and say I'd like you to fill out a new termination card. Have there been any situations like that?
NUNEZ:
One that is lost, you mean?
POWER:
Yeah.'
Right. A duplicate, yeah, I'm talking about a lost / misplaced; the work is done and he is not the-electrician that performed the work.
NUNEZ:
I cannot recall that incident ever happening.
. POWER:
In the situation where the cards are, again, lost, misplaced or for whatever reason the termination card is prepared, in all cases what general reasons have you given either to the foreman ~.or tha electrician for a new card?
What do you tell them? I just want t6 make sure that no F
misunderstanding... you just related it... I'm just t
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asking you to repeat the same answer.
NUNEZ:
When the...
8 POWER:
Yeah, what reason do you give when you give them the duplicate cards? What do you tell them to do?
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J' NUNEZ:-
The superintendent informs me that it is a lost card
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or... (unintelligible)
~ POWER:
Right.
NUNEZ:
... and that's usually what I*tell the foreman.
s POWER:
0.K.
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~ NUNEZ:
We need to...
8 POWER:
To go out and look at the termination...
~~
NUNEZ:
Yeah.
POWER:
Are there any situations where an electrician, other than the one that performed the work, looked at the work, leonsidered it good, and did not reterminate it, andJjust signed the card? -
NUNEZ:
I have no specific way of knowing that, actually because I'm not with him when he's terminating.
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. POWER:
No, I'm just trying ter; determine whether or not there
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have been any situations where' you have 'gone with him.or, '
you made a comment s.fter he came back, it looked allright{'
and I just signed the card. We're getting other U
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indications of individuals that are going out looking at cards... they're signing ::t because they say they're receiving these types of instructions.
That is what I'm interested in determining.
Where are these instructions coming from?
NUNEZ:
When they get a lost card
...?
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POWER:
Correct.
NUNEZ:
... to go out in the field...
POWER:
Correct.
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NUNEZ:
... and usually the foreman will go with him, they look the termination over'and everything, you know, that's it, and they are instructed to re-lug it, look the work ever, see what it looks like, you know, and if it's acceptable,
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he'll...
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SHACKLETON:
0.K.
The other area that we wanted to talk about, uh, Hector, was splicing of Class-Q cables. Have you ever directed anyone under your supervision to splice Class Q cable (7 i
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38 NUNEZ:
I don't believe that we're allowed to splice Class Q cables, and I don't think that I've 'ever instructed anybody to make the splices, Class Q cables. Between the... unless it was an (unintelligible) to the end, you know, splicing it through a terminal (unintelligible) i SEACKLETON:
How about in the...
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NUNEZ:
(Unintelligible) l SHACILETON:
... in a manhole, down on the manhole? Up by the spray ponds?
NUNET:
I think they pulled a new cable in there and, uh...
SHACELETON:
But prior, Hector, prior to pulling a new cable, did you -
direct someone to splice. cable?
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~1tDNEZ:
I'm trying to recollect my thoughts on that particular incident.
SHACILETON:
Do you intow the incident I'm relating to?
k NUNEZ:
I believe you're talking about the manhole right outside eS spray pond next to a wood patrol center?
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SHACKLE;UN:
I'm... that sounds the way it was described to me...
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NUNEZ:
I would have to look at the blueprint or something of the area. At the time, uh, there!s a possibly that we were going to terminate a splice rather in that manhole and, uh, this went back to Reggie JOHNSON and he looked into it a
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.c.J 39 (unintelligible). Erigineer Al BOYCE have maybe been the engineer. I'm not for sure...
SEACILETON:
Al BOYCE7 NUNEZ:
Yeah., I'm not for sure whether he was the engineer or not, he comes to my mind. That could be the wrong person.
you know.
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POWER:
But the engineer... engineering went back and decided against it...
NUNEZ:
Yes, sir.
POWER:
... and they repulled the cable?
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NUNEZ:
Uh-huh.
70WER:
Do you recall when this occurred? Month and year, roughly?
I NUNEZ:
Oh, I'd say either plus,or minus a year.
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SHACKLETON:
And tha.t was for Unit 1, right?
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NUNEZ:
Teah, it was.
SHACKLETON:
Was the splice actually made?
l-Ft'NEZ:
I don't believe it was.
t SHACKLETON:
The epble was too short, or what was the problem?
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,.s 40 Why... why, why did... why was the idea of using a splice considered, what was the reason?
NUNEZ:
I would have to get back with my foreman, Richard KEITH, and...
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
,t.
NUNEZ:
... He's... handles most of my manho'.e problems and relate to him. Un, I don't think tha splice was ever
.made, to the best of my knowledge.
POWER:
Who do you personally havet KEITH, uh, SANDGVAL...
SHACKLETON:
CRANE...
n POWER:
Joe CRANET
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WUNEZ:
CRANE, uh-huh. Yeah.
He would be a closer associated Person to that splice.
POWER:
Yeah.
NUNEZ:
... if he was directed by me to splice, it was because g:.
that information came through the superintendent, you
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know, and they looking at the whole situation and finding s,
out...
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y POWER:
So in effect then, that would have been procedurally the right thing to do or would engineering have decided that p
was correct for you to pass those instructions on?
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-NUNEZ:
I don't... whether that engineer was aware of that that splice (unintelligible)...
POWER:
Oh, no.
What'I'm... what I'm saying, is to the best of your recollection, what you were doing in accordance with your. procedures and your design and your blueprints...
NUNEZ:
Oh, yeah.
I was...
POWER:
... and engineering... Right...
NUNEZ:
I was doing what I thought was, uh, a normal operation, you know...
POWER:
Teah.
p NUNEZ:
...Weweren'ttryingtohideordoanythingyouknow.fc:.
' -TOWER:
Yeah.
NUNEZ:
... I thought it was the procedure to do.
We, uh, come to this' place that, uh, (unintelligible) maybe the cable wasn'.t long enough, you know, so they have*that (unintelligible) you know,' nobody was trying to hide i
i something or... there's just no procedure I think due to the knowledge of not splicing Class Q cable that was questionable and I don't think that a splice was ever made or attempted to be made in that manner.
I think that was questionable right from... like I said, it, uh, you could talk to foreman Richard KEITH, I think he would give you more definite input into that.
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op 42 SHACKLETON:
Allright, thank you.
The next area, Hector, is, is the relationship of JOHNSON, yourself, and the three foreman, with QC inspectors. Do you feel that the QC inspectorg that are inspecting the work done by the wiremen that they era able to operate freely and independent without any
. intimidation from, uh, supervision over the wiremen?
NUNEZ:
Woulc you repeat that, now?
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
Do you feel.that the QC inspectors that inspect the work being performed by your men...
NUNEZ:
Right.
SHACKLETON:
... are able to operate freely and independent without, any Lntimidation from, uh., supervision over the wirement 6
NUNEZ:
You mean pressurizing them to go ahead and accept it.
or...
SHACKLETON:
Right.
I NUNEZ:
... is that what you're talking about?
SHACKLETON:
Right.
- p. -
NUNEZ:
They operate on their own.
We don't, you know, we give checks to it, it's good, we take the back end, say, the QC people did not accept for whatever reasons it may be...
SHACKLETON:
You feel then, you're saying to me that you feel they have their proper independence?
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,_.o-43 NUNEZ:
Oh, yes.
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
Fine. Hector, you've got a lot of years of experience and you've been on this project now for almost six years, six years this coming month. Do you have, from your observations, any ideas or concerns that you feel, in your field that you're working on out here, should...
that the... the Commission should look at? Do you feel anything... everything is allright, or do you feel 'there are some areas that should be inspected more closely?
NUNEZ:
Other than what we have discussed here today, I thought that the job was, well, satisfactory and installed in an electrical manner except for the documentation...
SEACKLETON:
Allright.
NUNEZ:
... that I've been made aware of today.
I-SHACKLETON:
0.K.
I don't have any other questions and Hector,,I appreciate your sitting here and going through this, I know it's not pleasant NUNIZ:
No, it's not.
SRACKLEION:
... but it's, uh, it's important that we get everything out in the open, because we're not headhunting, we're trying to find do we have a problem, how big is it, and then management will take corrective action so that we don't repeat it on other units, 'cause we still have Unic 2 and 3 to go.
Uh, at this eine, Hector, do you have Sny additional things you would'like to say?
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NUNEZ:
No, not at this time.
(Unintelligible)
PonTER:
Don't you want to get a. statement later on?
SEAClG.ETON:
Yes, I think we should.
Uh, at this time, we'll bring this interview to a close and the time is nov 9:33 a.m.
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