ML20127P551
| ML20127P551 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/17/1982 |
| From: | Aguayo P BECHTEL GROUP, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML17215B062 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8505240023 | |
| Download: ML20127P551 (36) | |
Text
Q1u.a&
~
s A, mu v.y Gv n
,.o UNITED STATES OF AMERICA VAUGHN INDEX # 43 i
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION APPEAL APPENDIX i 323 In the matter of:
Interview of Philip A. Aguayo Docket No.
I - I7 Location:
Pages:
. Date:
June 17, 1982 k.
TAYLOE ASSOCIATES Court Reporters 16251 Street. N.W. Suite 1004 Washington. D.C. 20006 g 52 g 3 841024 BERNABEB3-A-9 pyg
p-
.~ :
-e-1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
.3
'4 6
6 7
Interview of Philip A.
Aguayo 8~
9 l
10 June 17, 1982 Palo Verde Nuclear Station 11 12 13 14 Investigators:
E. J.
Power 15 O. C.
Shackleton 16 17~
i 18 19 20 21 '
22 23.
24 25 w-we v
2 1
P_
R ' O, C - E_
E, '
D, I
N G_
S, 2
" INVESTIGATOR:
This is an interview of Mr. Philip 3
A. Aguayo.
Mr. Aguayo is an electrician,-working for the 4-
.Bechtel Power Corporation at Unit No.'1, the Palo Verde 5
Nuclear Generating Station.
6 Present to conduct this interview from the Nuclear 7-Regulatory Commission is E. J.
Power, and O. C.
Shackleton, 8
investigators for Region V.
9 Mr. Aguayo, do we have your permission to. log this 10 interview on tape?
11-MR. AGUAYO:
Yes,-sir.
12 -
INVESTIGATOR:
And as I understand it, Phil, you 13 would like to have a copy of the transcript from this tape.
14 Is that correct?
15..
MR. AGUAYO:
Yes, sir.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
The Commission will furnish 17 it to you.
I'll mail it to your home.
And be patient with 18' us in time; it will be a few weeks.
19 MR. AGUAYO:
Okay.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay, Phil.
What I want to do is 21 go through this list of allegations and find out whether or lu not you had any similar experience or know anything about 8
.them or can enlighten us in any way.
24 INVESTIGATOR:
Before you get started, how long
.have you been in high voltage termination?
l
3
_ e.-
d-1 MR. AGUAYO:
Oh, since September.
When I turned 2
out of the apprenticeship, th'ey asked me if I wanted to go.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
So September '81 to date.
4 MR.-AGUAYO:
1st of September, some time --
5 INVESTIGATOR:
High voltage'since September 1981.
6 MR. AGUAYO:
Okay.
7 INVESTIGATOR:
The first thing I want to talk about 8
is cable. termination cards.
And what I want to know, Phil, 8
if at any time you ever been aske'd to sign a termination card 10 for work that you did not perform.
11-MR. AGUAYO:
Okay, yes, but the way they do that, 12 they give you the card, and you go check it out.
~ 13 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
14 MR. AGUAYO:
You make sure you're satisfied with 15 it; if not, you redo it yourself, you know.
16
~ INVESTIGATOR:
What do you write on'the card, t-17 Phil?
18 MR. AGUAYO:
You put your name down.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
And you put your status number?
20 MR. AGUAYO:
Yes, you put'your number in there.
I 21 INVESTIGATOR:
How about the crimping tool?
22 MR. AGUAYO:
Well, sometimes -- if you redo it you put your tool down.
Other times -- I guess sometimes 23
[
you would put your number down, your tool number down --
24 i
25 INVESTIGATOR: Even though it wasn't the crimping
4 1
tool'that was used.
How many times can you recall you've been asked to 2
3 do this?
4 MR. AGUAYO:
Maybe four or five times.
5 INVESTIGATOR:
And can you recall, Phil,'did you cut the terminations and redo it, or did you accept the work?
6 7
MR. AGUAYO:
Most times I'd accept it; it would be a
right.
You would check it -- there's a little course out here t
you unscrew the wire and check it out, make sure it was done 9
10 the way you would do it, and you just go ahead and land it.
11 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
And who were you working for 12 when you were asked to do this?
Who is your foreman?
Who 13 directed you or asked you to do it?
14 MR. AGUAYO:
It was -- I guess it would be Ted 15 Bryce, would be my foreman now.
16 INVESTIGATOR:
Ted Bryce?
Is he still on board?
17 MR. AGUAYO:
No, he went with startup, and they 18 -
laid off startup; they laid him off.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
Does he work out of your local in 20 Phoenix?
21 MR. AGUAYO:
Yea.
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
So we could find him if we 23 needed to' talk to him.
Does he live in the Phoenix area?
24 MR. AGUAYO:
Yes.
25 INVESTIGATOR:
When you do a (inaudibic) like that
5 1
where you accept the other workman's work, what'do you do with 2
the -- I don't know what you call them -- the little silver
~
~
3 tag for the identification of the --
4 MR. AG.UAYO:
tags?
-5 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes, right.
6' MR. AGUAYO:
Well,'sometimes they'll give you a card 7
and'it might have a possum (?) tag; that one already has a 8
possum tag'on it. You just verify it.
9 INVESTIGATOR:
What do you do; just throw away the 10 other one, too?
Do they go back with the card?
11 MR. AGUAYO:
Just send them in with the card.
12 (Simultaneous discussion. )
' 13 INVESTIGATOR:
When you were working on that crew 14 -
for Bryce or for any other crew you've been on since you've 15 been out h'ere, were some of the other electricians also asked 16 to fill out termination cards for work they didn't do?
17 MR. AGUAYO:
I don't know; I would imagine so.
18
-I mean, as many cards as they had, sometimes you'd have to 19 back and check their work, whatever.
20 INVESTIGATOR:
Phil, when Bryc'e asked you to go 21 check the work and sign the card, do you know did he refer to 22 "his foreman's log to.see who had done the work before?
Do 23 you know, had the craftsmen who had originally done the work, 24 were they.gone or what was the story? Do you remember?
26 MR. AGUAYO:
Well, sometimes they would, the card
I 1
would already be signed and everything,.also, you know, and 2
they'd say go check it out.
So, I don't really know what 3
to do --
4 INVESTIGATOR:
Whose signature?
5 MR. AGUAYO:
Oh, some of the guys, some of the 6
electricians.
7 INVESTIGATOR:
Did you sign it again, then, or 8
initial it, or in any way make a mark on the form?
9 MR. AGUAYO:
No.
If it was done right, you just 10 turned it in.
You see, sometimes they'd give you the blank 11 ones as the one that you would (inaudible) put your own 12 signa.ture on.
13 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, the ones that hav,e already 14 been signed, do you know on the back side, were they bought
.15
- off by QC7 16 MR. AGUAYO:
QC only -- colored cables, QC cables.
17 INVESTIGATOR:
Are you talking about non-safety 18 related?
19 MR. AGUAYO:
Well, I imagine it was black.
I mean, N
I really don't remember.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
See, our prime interest -- I want M
to know about it all, but our prime interest is in safety-23 related.
Because we're concerned'with the health and safety 24 of the public.
And you can have some of those black cables 25 that may fail, and it may cause the plant to shut down, but L-
7 N
1 it isn't going to endanger the lives of either employees or 2
the public.
That's where'our concern is.
3 MR. AGUAYO:. I would say black cables, because 1
4 QC cables, we're'real strict on rules.
5 INVESTIGATOR:
When you got some of these, was ther e 6
any pressure to have anybody sign them? In reference to --
7.
MR. AGUAYO:
'No, they just handed them out.
To go 8
check it out.
9 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
10 Next issue, -- any further question's, Gene?
11 Next issue is, relates to improper splicing of 12 quality class, safety-related cable.
Have you ever observed 13 l or heard or_know of any safety-related Q class cable, as you 14 fellows refer to it, that was spliced without documentation 15 or QC being involved?
16 MR. AGUAYO:
No.
17 INVESTIGATOR:
What I'm relating to Phil, the 18 situation is a specific case that's given to us is a case 19 where a cable was damaged by a welder, where burning slag M
was dropping on cables that weren't properly covered by a 21 welding blanket.
Burned their covering, and there was 22 damage done to the, cable.
And rather than de-terminate, 23 pull the cable and replace it, a heat shrink kit was used 24 and to cover it up, the cable was pushed underneath other 2
cables so it couldn't be seen.
You ever hear of anything I
L
l 8
1 like that?
2 MR. AGUAYO:
I never. heard of that.
3 INVESTIGATOR:
The other, next issue is problems 4..
concerning Startup not following de-termination procedures.
5 And,what we're talking about here, we have testimony that 6
fellows have done terminations, they've been' bought off by 7
QC, later they've returned to the area to do some other work 8
and see that their terminations have been de-terminated and 9
either been re-terminated or left without being reconnected.
10 Have you ever had any experience in that way?
11 MR. AGUAYO:
I haven't.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you heard of it?
13 MR. AGUAYO:
No, I haven't heard of it.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
Now, see, you've been here since --
15 one and a half years.
That covers a period of time -- the next 16 issue is on improper insulation of high voltage terminations.
17 What I'm talking about here is the use of some of these 18 materials you guys use to make the terminations like Scotch 18 Fill.
And I understand that approximately a year ago, two years ago, they were using this material, some of the 20 21 terminations, and found that it bled because of the intense 22 desert heat out here.
So they've used'another material.
23 They use 130 C to wrap.
Is that what you're using now?
24 MR. AGUAYO:
Well, I really don't see -
.those 25 little specs on different motors and different areas, and
9-I when they give you a card like on the motor over here, you 2
check out these specs.
You use different things and sometimes 3
you know, like a year ago or something, you could use such and such; and then ov.ernight they say you can't use tha't no more, 4
5 we're using this.
6 INVESTIGATOR:
So whatever your current specs are, 7
yes.
8 LMR. AGUAYO:
(Inaudible) update -- isn't good 9
enough.
.10 INVESTIGATOR:
Phil, the next issue is concern 11 by some people where you do terminations like onto an electric 12 motor.
Have you done any of those?
13 MR. AGUAYO:
Right.
14 INVESTIGATOR:
And I'm talking primarily about 15 safety-class motors; not smaller ones, but the larger motors 16
.that are involved in class Q systems, where you may have on 17 the picker head a one lug bolt connection off the motor, and 18 on your field cable you've got a two-bolt lug.
Do you follow 19 me on that?
20 MR. AGUAYO:
Yes.
21 INVESTIGATOR:
When you go to connect them, have 22 you done any of those?
23 MR. AGUAYO:
If I remember correctly, everything 24 7.ve done, they match right up.
25 INVESTIGATOR:
So you never had a two to a one?
[
~
.10
^l gg
.c l
1 MR. AGUAYO:
I don't think you can do that. 'I'm~
-pretty _ sure they came out and said- (inaudible).
2 u
i 3
INVESTIGATOR:- Next issue is getting your opinion 4
and observations on the QC inspectors that~ work with you 5
-people lto inspect your' work.
From your observations, do 6
they;do-an adequate job?
'7 MR. AGUAYO:
More than adequate.
You make a
'8 mistake,'they're going to find out about it.
g_
9-INVESTIGATOR:
You feel.that they're well enough ICL trained that they know what they're doing; you're satisfied?
11 MR. AGUAYO:
They do a real good job.
12 INVESTIGATOR:
Good.
Now, the other part of that 13
-is that we've got an allegation th'at some of thes,e people are 14 intimidated by foremen or superintendents of construction-15
'to where they're afraid to enforce _what they think they y
16-should do, like hang a red tag and have a foreman!come.along 17 and tell them to take the damn thing off.
And the guy does 18 it because he's intimidated.by it.
19 Have you ever observed'or known_of that to'take 20 place?
21 MR. AGUAYO:
No.
(Inaudible).
l Et INVESTIGATOR:
Do you feel,'then, that QC operates-23 freely as quality control without being subject to obstruction:
24 MR. AGUAYO:
Right.
Yes, I do.
1' 25 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you done any high pot testing?
i
_11 o
1 MR. AGUAYO:
I actually haven't.
I've been 2
on it, but as far.as hooking up all those things, I 3
haven't.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you ever heard or observed l
5 excessive high potting of a cable?
We understand, again as 6
.I explained to you, Gene and I are not electricians or l
electrical engineers, but we underst'and from the alleger that i, 7
8 Anaconda, in their specs for their cable states they can only 9
high pot test it once.
If the~y do iti over once, then the --
'dh-10 -
(End of recording, side B.)
11 12 e
13 14 15 16 l'I 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
12
.A.Agu;yo 7joyl 1-INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
Have you ever' worked on 2
an installation"where you have conduit that comes down to a prom tp.6 3
metal cabinet where you terminate, maybe some kind of 4
control cabinet, and you are using conduit and you have 5-O rings where you have a fitting that has threads and that 6
tightens down so you have water-tight integrity?
7 MR. AGUAYOU:
I would imagine so because there --
-8 (inaudible).
9 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
Have you ever worked on 10 them yourself?
11 MR. AGUAYOU:
I would say yes.
I mean I don't 12 know --
13 INVESTIGATOR:
Have you always -- can you, 14 recall have you always had O rings available when you 15 -
needed them?
16 MR. AGUAYOU: Well, we don't ins. tall them very 17 often.
The guys that run the pipe do that.
18 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
So you've never done'it 19 yourself.
20 MR. AGUAYOU: Well, I ran pipe out here before.
21 and I have installed them.
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Wel]. tf'.e allegation was that there 2
was a period of time here t<* :.>out six months-in which-24 Bechtel didn't have O rings avatlable and the men were told
'I
~
n..
13-7-2 1
to go ahead and do the piping without them, which they did.
2 MR. AGUAYOU:
$verytime I was on piping we always
.3 had them available.
4 The last area I want to talk to you about has 5
nothing to do with electrical but it's a problem that we' face
.6
.in the country today in many walks of life in. many places, 7
and that's the use of controlled drugs on the site.
We have 8
been given'information relating to the use and sale on this 9
site of marijuana, hashish, am'phetamines, cocaine.
10 Have you observed or know of this type of traffic 11
'on the site?
12 MR. AGUAYOU:
I've heard of it, you know, but 13 INVESTIGATOR:
Are there any particular areas in 14 the plant whereon pot has been smoked?
15 MR. AGUAYOU:
The only place I've seen might be 16 on the parking lot.
About three years ago when the thing was 17 going big we had a lot of people out there smoking pot.
You 18 could smell it.
That's one thing.
I've never been around 19 anybody that's done that because I wouldn' t even work with 20 somebody like that, you know.
Endanger you, endanger somebody 21 else.
22 INVESTIGATOR:
Well, it's a real concern that we u
have fo'r everybody, the public in particular, you know.
All 24 diey have to know is that we have a drug problem out here in 25 addition to all the other allegations, and we're in for a I
r
. - ~. _ _ ~ _.
.t.--
I4 7-3 g
1 sit-in, and curtailing it, getting it out of here because not 2
only drngs, but alcohol, because if a guy is inebriated, he i
3 could-hurt somebody, hurt himself, and he isn't going to do 4'
his work very well, and if he's working on safety-related 5
work, nobody wants that, no one would want a surgeon or a 6
dentist to be crocked when they're working cn1 them.
7 MR. AGUAYOU:
That's true.
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Okay. The only other question I 9
have,.Phil: Is there anything that you have observed here at 10 the plant that you feel the Nuclear ' Regulatory Commission 11 should give it some special attention?
12 MR. AGUAYOU:
The only thing I'd like to see, like, 13 when they get Unit 1 going, some monitors out here, you know.
14 I don't know how they're going to do it once they get Unit 1
~
15 ~
on the line, but --
16 INVESTIGATOR:
They put monitors all over --
17 SMR. AGUAYOU:
For'my own safety, I would like to 18 have a monitor availabl.e whenever I want to walk around here.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
They have monitors all around for 20 miles, on zones.
It's all zoned off. And they have monitors 21 on all the --
22 INVESTIGATOR:
It's as far out as 10 miles?
23 INVESTIGATOR:
Yes.
l.
l l
24 INVESTIGATOR: We've got different people'in our 25 region.
'i
^
~.
- 15 -
g l'
INVESTIGATOR:
They're health physicists.
I'm not-2 a health physicist.
-I'm a physical security invest'igator 3
type,. then we've got engineers, nuclear engineers, mechanical 4
Jand whatever.. Anyway, the health physics end of the house.
5-does do that.
Startup_ takes a long time. They really 16 coul'dn't-have a problem -- they could have, I'm not trying 7.
to belittle.the situation.
It could be serious. But.because-8 of the t'ests they go through -- they have a gradual one that's
~
9 called a power ascension.
It's like turning on a water-
' 10 -
faucet.
You t_ urn it on a little bit and it will only be 11 a little-bit.
Well, if you're working in the area and it's 12 a little bit, _ you can' t get wet, okay?
Then they start to 13 turn it on a little more.
They go 10 percent, 20 percent, 14 50 percent, and then they're allowed to go up accordingly 15 so far.
16 Now, this goes over a period of at least,--minimum-17 probably six months to a year before they ever reach a' point-18 where they start producing power to sell, and during that l_
19 period of time they have to meet certain. criteria in all the i
l_
20 testing.
So it is a controlled' situation.
It is well tested..
{
21 If you have a question, make sure you ask at any i.
22
' time, and don' t forget there 's three NRC on the site all the -
23 time right now.
There are three engineers, two of which 24 are startup engineers.
That's where their field is.
They 25 might -- if you've question a question or concern, please ask r
L l'
b-
r: - ~-
'_7_3
-16 1
them.
2-MR..AGUAYOU:
I'would-like to know before they 3
start, you know,'on anything.
4 INVESTIGATOR:
They are required to blast.
5 MR. AGUAYOU: I would like to be informed about 6
what they are going to be having out there because, you know, 7
supposed to work safely, you know. I'm kind of --
8 INVESTIGATOR:
Most everybody is.
That's why we're 9
here.. If somebody else feels maybe, hey -. well, if they 10 believe an electrical installation is improper, and if
- 11 somebody has a question, if they get it to the NRC, I
~
12 guarantee you somebody is going to come and look at it to 13 make that determination.
Now, whether or not you believe 14 the NRC, that's another problem, but I guarantee you we will 15 get the best that we have available to go to the nth degree 16 to determine whether or not it's a valid concern.
If the 17 allegation is true, we will get it changed or corrected or 18 we'll shut them down.
19 INVESTIGATOR:
Not only that, but we have a very 20 expensive mobile laboratory, and they come here periodically 21 and run tests on the systems in the plant and make sure M
that they. are at proper levels and so on.
There's a lot of-23 checks, and it's all available to the public to know*about.
24 Is there anything further before you get going?
25 MR. AGUAYOU:
No.
4.'
~ e e
7-6fjoy 1
Are.you aware of or have knowledge of any
-situation where in drilling-the cores they have damaged 2
3 (inaudible word) in the concrete walls?
Have you ever 4
heard anything?
5 MR. AGUAY U:
Drilling through concrete?
INVESTIGATOR:_
Yes.-
While they are drilling core 6
7 samples, you know, they (' inaudible) in the process and damage 8
the --
9 MR. AGUAYOU:
No, I've never heard of that.
10 ~
INVESTIGATOR:
Okay.
??e will termin' ate this 11 interview at this time, and it is approximately 10 minutes 12 -
after 3:00.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
^~
f F
y,a
- 3
(
~ -
VAUGHN INDEX # 43 APPEAL APPENDIX #323 JUN 171982 INTERVIEW OF PHILIP A. AGUAYO Case No.:
5-8'2-00,9 Transcript of tape recorded interview of:
Philip A. AGUAYO Date of Interview:-
June-17, 1982 Interviewers:
Eugene J. POWFI and' Oven C. SHACKLETON Jr.,
Investigators assigned to Region V, U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Purpose of Interview:
To obtain AGUAYO's responses to allegations made by Robert D. GUNDERSON Jr., electrician, who formerly worked on Unit-1, PVNGS, in one of the electrical termination crews with AGUAYO Location of Interview:
Bechtel Management trailer at Unit-li PVNGS Conditions of Interview:
Interview was conducted with AGUAYO under oath 1
b
/
s; i
G-66
~
~'i*
- -e
<..--_mm.,
C.
C 5-INTERVIEW WITH AGUAYO SHACKLETON:
This is an interview of Mr. Philip A. AGUAYO.
Mr. AGUAYO is <an electrician working.for the Bechtel Power Corporation at Unit fl at Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station.
Present to conduct this interview from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is E. J. POWER and O. C.
SHACKLETON, investigators from Region V.
Mr. AGUAYO, do we have your permission to log this interview on tape?
AGUAYO:-
Yes, sir.
SRACKLETON:
And, as I understand it Phil, you would like to have a copy of the, uh, transcript from this tape, is that correct?
AGUAYO:
Tes, sir.
i j
SHACKLETON:
'O.K.
The Commission will furnish it to you and I'll mail it to your home and be patient with us in time; it will be a few weeks.
I AGUAYO:
0.K.
4 SHACKLETON:
0.K.
Phil, what I want-to do is go through this list of al' legations and find out whether or not you had any similar experience or know anything about them or can enlighten us in any way.
i r
POWER:
Yeah... bef ore you get started... how long have you f~-
been op high-voltage termination?
t l
I E
C C
AGUAYO:
Oh, since September. When I turned out of the apprenticeship, they asked me if I wanted...
... wanted to go...
POWER:
AGUAYO:
Yeah..
POWER:
0.K.
So, September '81 to date?
AGUAYO:
Yeah. First of September of some time...
SRACKLETON:
High-voltage since September 1981.
AGUAYO:
0.K.
SRACKLETON:
The first thing I want to talk about is cable termination cards, and what I want to know, Phil, if at any time you have ever been asked to sign a termination card for work that you did not perform?
AGUAYO:
0.K., uh, yes, but the way they do that, they give you the card and you go check it out, you know, you make sure you're satisfied with it, if not, you redo it yourself, you know...
SHACKLETON:
0.K.
AGUAYO:
So you...
SHACKLETON:
Then what do you write on'the card, Phil?
AGUAYO:
You pgg your name down.
SRACKLETON:
And you put your badge number?
i.
g-(.
3 4
AGUAYO:
-Yeah, you put your number and then they...
And how about the crimping tool?
SHACKLETON:
Well, sometimes, uh, if you, if you redo it, you put your AGUAYO:
tool down, other times, uh, I guess sometimes they.would put your number down, your tool number down...
Even though it wasn't the crimping tool that was used?
SHACKLETON:
AGUAYO:
Yeah.
How many times can you recall that you've been asked-to SHACKLETON:
do this?
AGUAYO:
Maybe four or five times.
And can you recall, Phil, did you cut the terminations SHACKLETON:
and redo it or did~you accept the work?
it would be I'd say most of the times you'd accept it, AGUAYO:
... while you right, you know, you, you would check it would go to the little course out here and you would.
unscrew the wire and check it out, make sure it was done the way you would do it and you just go ahead and land it.
And who were you working for when you were asked SHACKLETON:
0.K.
to do this? Who was your foreman? Who directed you or asked to you do it?
L I guess it would be Ted BRYCE, would be my foreman then.
AGUAYO:
e i
SRACKLETON:
Ted BRYCE?
i L
f 7
'w't-m+-
C C
4 5
AGUAYO:
Yeah.
SHACKLETON:
Is he still on board?
AGUAYO:
Uh, he w... no, he went with, uh, start-up, when they laid.off start-up, they laid him off.
SHACKLETON:
Does he work out of your local in Phoenix?
AGUAYO:
Yeah.
SRACKLETON:
0.K.
So we could find him if we needed to talk to
~
him...
AGUAYO:
Yeah, pretty sure.
SHACKLETON:
Does he live in the Phoenix area?
AGUAYO:
Yeah.
POWER:
When you do a, a termination like that and accept the other workman's thing, what do you do with the little, uh, I don't know what you call them, the little silver tags for the identification number?
AGUAYO:
Possum tags'?
T POWER:
Yeah, right.
AGUAYO:
Well, sometimes see they'll give you a card and they might have a possum tag and that one already has a possum tag onsit...
POWER:
Right.
e+--
4 -,-
~,e.
g
...rw..m-,
n,
p.
en,,_
~w, n,
a-
,g~~-
(.
(-
(*,.
5 AGUAYO:
... you know, you just verify it.
POWER:
Yeah, yeah.
What do you do, just throw away the other ones, then?.Do they go back with the cards?
AGUAYO:
You just send them:in with the cards.
POWER:
Yeah.
O.K.
SHACKLETON:
When you were working on that crew for BRYCE.or'for any other crew you've been on since you've been out here, were some of the other electricians also asked to fill out ternination cards for work they didn't do?
AGUAYO:
I don't know.
I would imagine so, you know I mean...
SHACKLETON:
You never...
AGUAYO:
... as many cards as they had, it was... sometimes you'd have to go back and check the work, whatever.
SRACKLETON:
Phil, when, when, uh, BRYCE asked you to, to go check the work, and, uh, sign the card, do you know that he referred to his forman's los to see who had done the work before, do you know where... had the cr'aftsman who had originally done the work, were they gone or what was the story, do you remember?
AGUAYO:
Well, sometimes there would... the card would already be signed and everything, also, y,ou know, as they would go say check it out, so, uh, I, I don't really know there what the deal was.
j POWER:
With whose signature?
~
I L_
(
6 AGUAYO:
Uh, some other guy, some other electrician.
SRACKLETON:
Did you sign it again, or initial it or anyway make a mark on the form?'
AGUAYO:
No, if it was done right, you would just turn it in, see, sometimes they give you the. blank ~ones, the one that you would go and fill out POWER:
Yeah, right.
Put your own signature on it.
SHACKLETON:
Well, the ones that had already been signed, do you know on the back side, were they bought off by QC? Did you...
do you recall
...?
AGUAYO:
See QC only deals with the colored. cables...
SRACKLETON:
Uh-huh.
AGUAYO:
QC cables, so you...
SRACKLETON:
Are you talking about non safety-related?
~
POWER:
Black.
AGUAYO:
Oh, I'd imagine it was black. I mean I really don't remember.
SRACKLETON:
See, our prime interest
. I want to know about it all,
but our prime interest is in safety-related, because we're concerned with the health and safety of the public and you can have some of those black cables that may fail and it nay cause the plant to shutdown but it isn't going to l
4
,, - -,. ~ - - - -,, - - - -,
r-,---
ee-,.
n,
,,a
,-,,,-----,----------y-m - -
--a
(
c-7 endanger the lives of either employees or.the public, and that's where our concern is.
AGUAYO:
I would say, black cables 'cause with your QC cables, you know, they're really strict on those.
POWER:
When you got some of these, was there any pressure to have anybody sign them in reference to your...
AGUAYO:
No, they just hand it, just hand it out and. they go check it out.
POWER:
Yeah, O.K.
SHACKLETON:
The next issue, any further questions, Gene? The next issue is, uh, in relation to the improper splicing of.
quality class safety-related cable. Have you ever.
observed or heard or know of any safety-related Q class cables, you fellows refer to it, that was spliced without documentation or QC being involved?
AGUAYO:
No.
SEACKLETON:
What I cm relating to, Phil, is situations, specific cases given to us... excuse me'...
it is the, uh, a case where a cabic was damaged by, by a welder who had burned slight burn slag dropping on cables that weren't properly covered by a welding blanket, burned their covering and then there was damage done to the cable, and rather than, than determinate, pull the cable and replace it, a heat shrink tube and a kit'was used and covered up, cables pushed underneath other cables so it couldn't be seen.
f
~
Did you ever hear of anything like that?
-~
e---
f.
8 AGUAYO:
I've never heard of that.
'SHACKLETON:
- 0.K.
AGUAYO:
Even seen that.
SKACKLETON:
The other, uh, next issue is problems concerning, uh,
- start-up not following determination procedures, and what we're talking ab'out here we have testimony that fellows have done terminations, they've been bought off by QC, later'they returned to the area to do some other work and see that their terminations have'been determinated and either been reterminated or left without being reconnected. Have you ever had any experience in that way?
AGUAYO:
I haven't.
SHACKLETON:
Have you heard of it?
AGUAYO:
No, I haven't heard of anything.
'SRACKLETON:
0.K.
Now, see you've been here since, uh, only 1-1/2
- years, uh, you'll cover a period of time... the next issue is on improper installation of high voltage termination and what I'm talking about here is the use of some of these materials you guys use t'o make the terminations like Scotchfill, and I un,derstand that approximately a year ago, two years ago, they were using this material on some of the terminations and found that it bled because of the intense desert heat out here, and g -
so they've 6 sed another material. They use 130-C.
It's a wrap.
Is that what you're using now?
e O
e
- b
c c
9 AGUAYO:
Oh, I don't
... I really don't... see, we have all these little specs on different motors and different areas, and when they give you a card like on the motor over here, you check out your specs, you know, 'cause you, you use dif ferent things and sometimes, you know, like a year ago or something and you'd be using such and such and if they'd say no, no we're not using that no more, we're using this, so uh...
So, whatever the current specs are, yeah.
POWER:
... and then we're updating them so that is, that isn't AGUAYO:
good enough, we're gonna use this now.
PO*JER:
Yeah.
O.K.
Phil, the next issue is concerned by some people where SHACKLETON:
you do terminations like onto an electrical motor, have you done any of those?
AGUAYO:
Right.
And I'm talking primarily about safety class motor, not, SHACKLETON:
uh, smaller ones but the larger motors that are involved in Class Q systems where you may have on the peckerhead a one-lug bolt connection off the motor and on your field cable you've got a two-bolt lug. Do you follow me allright?
AGUAYO:
Yeah.
SRACKLETON:
When'you...
(
Two-bolt.
AGUAYO:
j i
l
(
(
^.
~
10 SHACKLETON:
... when you go to connect them, have you done any of-
-those?'
AGUAYO:
Uh, if I remember cor'rectly, everything I've done they match.right up.
~.
SEACKLETON:
'So you've never had a two to a one?
~
AGUAYO:
No, I don't'think you can do that.
s-SEACKLETON:
0.K.
n AGUAY0r -
I'm pretty sure they came out and said we couldn't use that.
1 SEACKLETON:
The next issue is getting your opinion and observations on your QC inspectors that work with you people to. inspect your work.
From your observations, do... are... do they do an adequate job?
'AGUAYO:
Hore than adequate.
See, if you make a mistake they're going to find out about it.
SHACKLETON:
Do you feel that they. they are well enough trained that t
j they know what they're doing? Do you feel satisfied?
j AGUAYO:
Right. They do a real good job.
(
SEACKLETON:
Good. Now the other part of that is that we've had an allegation that some of these people are intimidated by l
foremen and superintendents in construction to where they'rt, they're afraid to enforce what they think they l,
should do, like hang a red tag and then have a foreman l
come along and tell them to take the damn thing off and 1
l y--
....,.m.,e-m--
,+-,,-<--.------.y-,---p--w*++-,----w-,-
w-
- -, + +-, - - * - -
v-+~**
w-~*+
=P-e m
- =-----+-'---w'---c-' ' - - - - - -
=
11 the guy does it because he's intimidated by,it.
Have you ever observed or know of that to take place?
AGUAYO:
Never.
They'-re king pin out here, you know, they're (unintelligible) main man.
SRACKLETON:
Do you feel then, that QC operates freely as quality control without being subject to construction?
~ AGUAYO:
Right.
Yes, I do.
SHACKLETON:
Have you done any high pot testing?
AGUAYO:
I actually have, I've been foreman on it, but as far as hooking up all the things, I haven't.
SRACKLETON:
Have you ever heard or observed excessive high potting on' the cable? We understand, again as I explain to you, Gene 1
and I are not electricians or electrical engineers, but we understand from the alleg... from the alleger that i
Anaconda, in their specs for their cable, states they can only high pot test it once. If you,do it over once i
that (end of tape)
SRACKLETON:
Phil, have you ever worked on, uh, the installation where j
you, you have conduit that comes down to a metal cabinet where you terminate maybe'some kind of a control cabinet, when you're using conduit and you have 0-rings where you l
got a fitting that, that has threads and it tightens down so that you have water-tight integrity?
AGUAYO:
Uh, I'd imagine so,cause they're all over out there.
l l
I
.m.
(
(
.~',
=..
12 SEACKLETON:
Yeah. Have you ever worked on them yourself?
~
AGUAYO:
I would say yes, I mean, I don ' t know...
SHACKLETON:
Have you always, can you recall, have you always had
_0-rings available when you needed them?
AGUAYO:
Well, we don't install them, but the guys that run the pipe do.
SRACKLETON:
- Yeah, 0.K.1 So you've never done it yourself.
Well, I, I've ran pipe out here before...
AGUAYO:
SHACKLETON:
Yeah.
AGUAYO:
... and I have intalled them.
SHACKLETON:
Well, the allegation was that there was a period of time here for about six months in which Bechtel didn't have 0-rings available and the men were told.o go ahead and do t
the piping without them, which~they did.
P AGUAYO:
~Every time I was on piping we always had them available.
-SHACKLETON:.
The last area, Phil, I want to talk to you about has nothing to do with electrical, but it's a problem that we face in the country today and in many walks of life and many places and that's the use of controlled drugs on the site and we've been given information relating to the use of and sale on this site of marijuana, hashish,
'ampheramines, uh, cocaine. Have you observed or know of this type of traffic on the site?
~ -.. mm
_~
(
{
's-
- 13 AGUAYO:
I've heard of it, you know, but uh...
SRACKLETON:
Is there any particular areas in the plant where a lot of
< pot has been. smoked?
.AGUAYO:
The only place I would say about that would be-out in the parking lot. You know, like prior about three years ago, you know, when the thing was going big you had a lot of people out there smoking pot.
You could small it, you know.
SEACKI.ETON:
Uh-huh.
'AGUAYO:
... that's one thing... I've never been around anybody that's done that 'cause I wouldn't even work with somebody like that, you know, it can endanger you and endanger somebody else.
1 SEACKLETON:
Well, that's a real concern that we have, for the...
everybody, the public in particularly.
All they have to know if that we've got a drug problem out here in addition to all the other allegations and we're interested in, ia curtailing it, getting it out of here because not only_
drugs, but alcohol.
If a guy is inebriated, uh, he could hurt somebody, hurt himself and he isn't going to do his work very well. And if he's working on safety-related work, uh, no one wants that, no one would want a surgeon l
or a dentist to be crocked when they're at work now.
AGUAYO:
That's true.
SRACKLETON:
0.K. J... the only other question I have, Phil. Is there anything that you've observed here at the plant that 4
f
, -,, -. -. -...,.. - _... _ - _..... _.. _. _. ~. _ _. - _.., - -, -.. - -., - -
F-
{
I 14 p
you feel that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission should give it some special attention?
AGUAYO:
The only thing I'd lik,e to see,.like when they get Unit 1 going, some monitors out there. You know, I don't know how they're going to do it once they get Unit 1 on the line,'but...
SKACKLETON:
They put monitors all over the countryside.
AGUAYO:
for my own safety, you know, I'd like to have a monitor available whenever I wanted to walk around here.
SEACKLETON:
They have, they have monitors all around for miles...
.AGUAYO:
But let me...
SHACKLEION:
... and, and on zones, it's all zcned off. And they have, they have monitors on all the, uh...
POWER:
As far out as ten miles from the site.
SEACKLETON:
Teah.
POWER:
... they go out quite a distance... I bet... we've got different people in our region (unintelligible).
SEACKLETON:
We're not health physicists... they're health physicists...
POWER:
Yes, I'm not a health physicist, I'm a physical security inves41 gator type, and we've got engineers, nuclear i
engineers, mechanical and all that, whatever... anyway,
/
l I
l l
[
C C
15 the health physics side of the house does do that, uh, start-up takes a long time, uh, they really couldn't have a problem, they could have,1. I'm not trying to belittle It could be serious, but because of the the situation.
tests that they go through, they have a gradual, what is called a power ascension.
They're... it's like turning on a water faucet, you turn it on a little bit and there's going to be a little drip. Well, if you were working in the area and it's a little drip you can't get wet O.K.
and then they start turning it on a little more, they go 10%, 20%, 50%, and then they are allowed to go up accordingly so far. Now this goes over a. period of at
.least a minimum of probably six months to.a year before.
they ever reach a point where they start producing power to sell and during this period of time they have to meet certain criteria, in all the testing so it is a controlled situation, it is well tested. But when you have a question, yeah, make sure you ask anytime and don't forget' they're... there's three NRC onsite all the time, right Two of which are start-up now. They're three engineers.
if engineers, that's where their deal is and they might, you've got a question or concern, you know, please ask them...
I would like to know before th'ey start Unit 1 or ACUATO:
'anything...
SRACKLETON:
They have... they're required to...
r I would like to be informed about what they are going to AGUAYO:
be having out here.
s POkTR:
Yeah.
4 e
,___-a
(~
16 AGUAYO:
Cause, you know, I, you know, you're supposed to work
~
safely, you know, I'm kinda...
SMACKLETON:
Uh, most everybody is.
That's why we're here.
POWER:
Maybe.somebody else will say... Well, maybe they, well, they believe an electrical installation is improper and if somebody has a question and they get to the NRC, I guarantee you somebody is going to come and look at it and make that determination. Now whether or not you believe the NRC that's another problem, bu"t I guarantee you we will get the best that we have available that we can get to go to the 9th d'egree to determine whether or not it's a valid concern, you know, the allegation is true, if correctable, change or correct it or we'll, um, shut it down, it's that simple...
SEACKLETON:
Not only that, we have a very expensive mobile laboratory and they have come here periodically and run tests on, on the systems in the plant and make sure that PO'n'IR:
see if they relate to...
SHACKLETON:
... that that they're at proper levels and so on.
There's a lot of checks and it's all available to the public to, to know about.
AGUAYO:
- Yeah, i
SEACKLETON:
Is there any thing further you...
l POVER:
Yeah,pI got one before you get going.
AGUAYO:
No, that's about i
^
i
(
.e
(
17 PO'a'ER :
... Uh, are you aware of or have knowledge of any situation where, in drilling cores, they have damaged conduit in concrete walls? Have you ever heard anything of this natu.re?
AGUAYO:
Damaged your concrete?
POWER:
Yeah.
While they're drilling core samples, you know, they get conduit in the process and damage it.
AGUAYO:
Oh.
No, I never heard of anything like that.
SF.ACKLETON :
0.K.
We'll terminate, uh, this interview at this time and it's approximately ten minutes after three.
(end of tape) e 6