ML20127P663
| ML20127P663 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palo Verde  |
| Issue date: | 06/28/1982 |
| From: | Sandoval J AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML17215B062 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-83-161, FOIA-83-A-9 NUDOCS 8505240047 | |
| Download: ML20127P663 (37) | |
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. z'v . w . , G-UNITED STATES OF. AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION VAUGHN INDEX i 48 APPEAL APPENDIX i 344 In the matter of:
Interview of Joe G. Sandoval
~
Docket No.
I - 2I Location: Pages:
June 28, 1982 Date:
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TAYLOE ASSOCIATES C"" R ' "'"
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-1' UNITED STATES'OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
. 4 ,
6 6-
- 7 8- .
9
=10 Interview of Joe G. Sandoval 11 12
-13 o ,
14 1
15-16 June 28, 1982 Palo Verde Nudlear li Generating Station 18-19
'20 L21' Investigators: E.J. Power Owen C. Shackleton 22 23 24
- l-25 - -
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, . . .. i
.I 2
7.s 3-j oy2 1 P R O_ C_ E E D_ I'N_ G S_
- 2 INVESTIGATOR: This is an interview of Mr. Joe G.
3 Sandoval. The last name is spelled S-a-n-d-o-v-a-l. Mr.
4' Sandoval is a foreman, electrical, presently-working for 5 Bechtel Power Corporation at the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating 6 Station.
7 This interview is taking place on June 28, 1982, 8- and the time now is approximately 9:47 a.m. .
i 9 Present to conduct this interview from the U.S.
10 Nuclear Regulatory Commission is Mr. E.J. Power and myself, 11 Owen C. Shackleton. Mr. Power and myself are investigators 12
- from Region V, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
\ .
13 Mr. Sandeval, do we have your permission to. l
. I 14 conduct this interview on tape?
15 . MR. SANDOVAL: Yes. ,
l 16 INVESTIGATOR: And Mr. Sandoval, I understand that 17 l you would like to have a copy 'of the transcript of this tape;-
18 is that correct? .
19 l MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
M 'i INVESTIGATOR: Okay. We will provide that to you
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i 21 as soon as our girls get it typed and will mail it to your 22 home.
23 Now.Joa, I want to proceed on with our questioning, 24 I and our questi,ning is based on a list of allegations
- that have t
M been given to us, and the first one concerned the termination ff I
,, 3 1 cards that your men complete after they connect cabling, 2 which we refer to as terminations. And what we are trying to-3 find out in this regard is the practices that are being
. 4 followed by for.emen and management in getting these cards 5 filled out; and specifically the problem area that has been 6 identified to us is when in one way or another a card gets 7 lost and the work has been done, and what do you do then?
8 What's the normal procedure to follow?
9 MR. SANDOVAL: On a termination that's done, the
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10 card's sent in and they lose it. Sometimes they will find 11 the card, and other times ... .
12 INVESTIGATOR: The way I understand what happens,
'. 13 Joe, maybe to refresh your memory, is when a card is lost in 14 engineering, as I understand it, they come'up with another-15 card and' asks'to get it filled out, or gives it to the foreman 16 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, yes, that's right, and then 17 we go out and check the termination, you know, and if it is 18 made according to the card, we. check the ternination, the 19 card (inaudible) sign that off right there.
M INVESTIGATOR: You say "we."' Novi, how do you 21 handle that yourself? What do you do?
22 MR. SANDOVAL: What I do is they give me the card.
2 and then I'll assign one of the men and tell them this card 24 was lost and=now we should go find that location, see that 25 the termination that has been done is the same as this
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4 1 card, and'i" it is, sign off.
- 2. INVESTIGATOR: Okay. Now, when you ask him to-3 check the work and see it has been done according to what is
-4 indicated on the card and sign it off, now, he-signs what, his
'5 name?'
6 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes. But another thing. With a 7 new card,'since -- we take a tool with us with a number on 8 it. Sometimes we will cut (inaudible) reterminate so we 9 can have a tool number on this new card.
10 INVESTIGATOR: Okay. Soth'at you're saying is that 11 when they go back and take a look at it, if the work has 12 I already been completed, you are cutting it use again and.
'13 taking the crimping tool that that workman has and he recrimps 14 it, and then when he signs the card, he puts his name, .his
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15 badge number and his cri: ping tool number.
16 MR. SANDOVAL: Right. (Inaudible) we've got a num-17 ber that we check the termination and it's done according to 18 that card and in a workmanlike manner, we use our number --
19 when we don't use the tool at all.
M INVESTIGATOR: You have a code number, don't 21 you?
22 INVESTIGATOR: What number is that'?
Z3 MR. SANDOVAL: B-9999.
24 INVLSTIGATOR: Prom whom do you receive this new 25 card (inaudible).
l
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1 MR. SANDOVAL: From our supervisor, our superin-
- 2 tendent (inaudible) and then they go up to our general 3 foreman and --
- 4 -INVESTIGATOR: (inaudible) individual (inaudible).
5 MR. SANDOVAL: Right.
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6 INVESTIGATOR: Now, who are they? Who is your 7' superintendent?
8 MR. SANDOVAL: Ed' Johnson is the superintendent,
-9 ; and Hector Numbias (?) is our general foreman.
I .
~ 10 i INVESTIGATOR: How do you decide what electrician l-11 l[is'goingtogolookatapreviouslyinstalledtermination?
l 12 ;
MR. SANDOVAL: Well, whoever is available at the i
t 13 time. Sometimes everybody is out in the field and I'll-put 14 my cards there on my table, and the first guy that comes-li '
15 along, I'll just hand him the card.
llb 16 -' INVESTIGATOR: How many termination cards have you I
- 8 17 l done, that would have to be done over how iny --
l 18 INVESTIGATOR: Yes, just a guess.
19 INVESTIGATOR: Do you get one a week or four a N . month?
.I 21 MR. SANDOVAL: Maybe half a dozen a week, maybe,
- l-22 'jmaybethere'sweeksthatyoudon'tgetany.
il
<f 23 , INVESTIGATOR: How do you know (inaudible) card e4 24 '; for previously done work?
t 20 p ..R. SANDOVAL: Well, because if we don't -- there's i
s I
o 'h o
6 1
times when you get a new card, any card, and we'll go out and 2 find a termination already done. So (inaudible).
3' INVESTIGATOR: So in other words, from the card
- 4 you can't make a determination. It's just like any other --
5 MR. SANDOVAL: Right. . Yeah.
6 INVESTIGATOR: Someone has to go,look at it.
7 MR. SANDOVAL: Check it out.
8 INVESTIGATOR: Have you ever had a situation where 9 you've given it to an electrician to look at and he declines 10 to perform the work?
11 i MR. SANDOVAL: No.
12 INVESTIGATOR: Has anyone ever given a card back 13 to you and said, I don't want.to sign this card? .
14 MR. SANDOVAL: Sometimes he'll say, well', this i
- 15 L already (inaudible). He checks it out, and if it's according 16 to what's on the card. (inaudible) 17 INVESTICATOR: And has anyone ever refused to do 18 that?
19 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
20 INVESTIGATOR: We have sworn testimony from other 3
21 individuals that (inaudible) an individual to fill out a card 22 in that manner and he has declined to'do it. You can't:
23 recall any situation -- .
24 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, I mean, like I say,,he'll l'
say, well, I didn't de it; but he checks it out (inaudible) 25 I
l.
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- ... 7 1 sign it off (inaudible).
2 INVESTIGATOR: Yeah, right. But you ever'had any-L 3~ one, even.though he has checked it out, not want to sign the
. 14 card?
5 MR. SANDOVAL: Not refuse completely, no. Like
'6 I saf, he'll say no, and (inaudible) I mean he checked it-7 out.
8 INVESTIGATOR: Is that according to procedure, to 9 be able to (inaudible) for work that'was'(inaudible) and 10 the card was lost?
~ 11 MR. SANDOVAL: Yeah, because, like I said, --
12 INVESTIGATOR: No, are there written instructions.
13 MR. SANDOVAL: (Inaudible) , ru).
I'4 l INVESTIGATOR: But you've never had an individual 15' give you back a card and basically refuse to --
-16 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
17 INVESTIGATOR: Everyone goes along with (inaudible) 18 To the best of your knowledge, there is nothing wrong with 19 that.
20 _ q MR. SANDOVAL: "o.
I' 21 ~ INVESTIGATOR: See, the problem that arises is n that some people have said that.there is falsification in 23 these records, and that's the reason we are asking auestions 24 l of people like 1 ourself, trying to find out what they (inaudi-J.
See, what happens, Joe, is somebody did t-he work, say, 25 lblo).
i t
I I
[-
.,, . - g 1 on one termination, and then somehow, for reasons that we
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2 don't know, the card got lost. And now another card comes to 3 you and you go_ check it and the work is done. And then you 4- ask the workman, an electrician, to look at it, and he looks 5 at it and you tell him to sign it off.
6 Now, he didn't cut it. What we'are getting to is 7~ the situation, wha 6 I'm asking you, where they don't cut it 8 and use the.r own crimping tool, but just look at it and. sign 9 it off. Have you ever asked-them to do that?
10 MR. SANDOVAL: Like I said, he checked it out, 11 (inaudible) and then he'll put this tool number, like B-9999.
12 INVESTIGATOR: Okay. But would you use that tool 13 number, that code number when there was a crimping tool used 14 I by someone else? See, one guy did it, and'we don't know who;
'15 now because time has passed on and the card is lost, and now 16 , you have a second man come and look at it.
I 17 MR. SANDOVAL: As I said, we usually ask him to 18 go ahead and cut it and.reterminate and then-(inaudible).
.19 INVESTIGATOR: What I'm asking, Joe, are there 20 some occasions that have occurred when they haven't cut it and 21 they have signed it off?
22 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
23 II;VESTIGATOR: There are occasions like th'.st. See, 24 ) that's the problem where this allegation comes fron, because i
25
{ technically -- now, you know because of 38 years, you know ll 9:
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E- -
9 4
1 your work, undoubtedly, or you wouldn't be a foreman here.
2_ But from the standpoint of'the public, you see, they looklat 3 .that and they'll say, well, this man signed it off, he didn't
, 4 do the work, may,be he looked at it and it looked all right, 5 now he puts his name and his badge number, and now he puts 6 his crimping tool number, and it really wasn't his crimping 7 tool.
8 'MR . SANDOVAL: See, this B-9999 is not a crimping 9 tool..
i 10 i INVESTIGATOR: Yes, but what I'm getting at, do
. 11 you have occasions where it has been crimped by someone and 12 now we don't know who and we don't know what that number was?
13 We have had allegations that what some of the men are doing 14 ~ is they are putting their name and their badge number and 15 e their crimping tool number, but that wasn't the crimping tool 16 that was used.
17 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
18 INVESTIGATOR: Have you'had occasions where that 19 has occurred that you're aware of?
20 MR. SANDOVAL: No, you're not supposed to put a 21 crimping tool number on a -- if he didn't terminate it.
22 INVESTIGATOR: Okay. Gene, do I understand 23 correctly -- what I understand Joe saying is even though it 24 has been crimped by another tool --
25 INVESTIGATOR: They just use B-9999 on'it.
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1 l INVESTIGATOR- Isthat c.orrect, Joe? . kn I under-21 -standing you right? But there was a crimping' tool used-at 3 one time:
-4 MR.~SANDOVAL: Yes.
5 NNVESTIGATOR: Okay. And I think one of the 6 problems, Joe, that we're fighting is you have no procedure 7 to handle when a card is lost. There is nothing in' writing.
8 There is no procedure 4 to handle when it has been l'ost.
- g -So different foremen have done things in-different ways to 10 .try a'nd' handle the situation, and this is where I'think some
,11 - Lof these allegations are coming.
12 INVESTIGATOR: In reference to'that, you indicated 13 that no one has'ever declined not to do it. Are you aware
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14 l offany other foreman or scperintendent or general foreman
.15 that someone did not want to write --
16 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
17 INVESTIGATOR: Have you ever heard of'anyone being-18 threatened or pressured to.do it or they're. going to lose.
19 their job?
20' MR. SANDOVAL: No.
i .
21- INVESTIGATOR: Are you aware of any situation's
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-22 'where individuals, although they have executed the termination J23 -card, the new termination card, they are actually doir.g.it
.24- under protest? .
25 MR. S ANDOV.'.L : No.
.)
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11 7:3-joyll Trpe 8'fols.- 3 Are you aware of any termination that's ever been 2 given.to an electrician that was already signed by a name 3 and they were told to go look at the work? The card is already
- 4 completed, but they were sent back to look at it anyway.
5 MR.'SANDOVAL: No. '
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6 INVESTIGATOR: Are you aware of any (inaudible) of 7- false signature on.a card?
8 INVESTIGATOR: Where someone has written another 9 man's name.
10 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
11 l INVESTIGATOR: Have you ever been directed by your 12 management, either from your general foreman or from your 13 superintendent, to have your men sign off termination cards 14 for work they didn't perform?
15 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
16 INVESTIGATOR: You never have. .
17 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
18 INVESTIGATOR: I did have one more question. When 19 you get some of the new cards for work previously done, i.s 20 there any research? I understand vou now have a record
~21 available of --
continued 22 (Tape ends) on-tape 3 23
- 24 25 !
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. Srg1 12 4 l .
1
! INVESTIGATOR: --now to practice?
l 2- l MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
l r-3 INVESTIGATOR: You do now?
-4 l MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
l 5 INVESTIGATOR: Do you go back to the Research 6 li staff, though, when you're -- .
7 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes --
ll 1
8 INVESTIGATOR: -- when you're back again?
9 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
'3
.I 10 l
INVESTIGATOR: Well, why don't you extract that 11 '! information and put it on a new card and somewhere indicate on h .
12 the card that (inaudible) how upset-you were to (inaudible).
13 I am not saying that is the way to do ,it. I am 14 just asking why it is not done that way, from the original 15 crimping tool and name of the original installer is not 16 used.
17 ,
Can you (inaudible) ?
19 MR. SANDOVAL: No. (Inaudible) Like I say, we 19 don't get too many cards like that and when I do, I go back I
20 and try to see (inaudible) --
21 INVESTIGATOR: And give it back to them?
22 MR. SANDOVAL: Yeah. Because it's easier and they.
t 23 , . know just what it is and they they don't lose no time going 24 through a (inaudible). -
25 INVESTIGATOR: Yeah.
~8tg2 13
- 1. INVESTIGATOR: You got the tape going?
2 INVESTIGATOR: Yeah, it's working, it's working.
3 INVESTIGATOR: Joe, you are on this list and have
, 4 you in your experience here ever witnessed any splicing of 5 cables that have been damaged without getting engineering or 6 QC involved?
7 Your. response is no?
8 - !!R . SANDOVAL: Say it again, come again?
9 INVESTIGATOR: Have you ever witnessed any splicing
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"- 10 of cable without GC or engineering being involved?
l What I am talking about, Joe, is we have an allega-11 l-12 tion with some cables that were damaged by welding sliding,-
13 dropping down in the welding tray? And rather than pulling 14 the cable around, a new cable, the allegation is that some 15 type of repair kit was used and the damaged cable was repaired 16 at that point and QC wasn't advised, engineering wasn't called 17' in, and no paperwork was made up.
18 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
19 INVESTIGATOR: You know of no incidents like that?
I 21 l INVESTIGATOR: All right.
22 Have you,or your men had any problems with, after 23 you have put -- ycu make a termination and it's been bought 24 off, and then your men come back later, work in the area again
- 25 I and find the termination's been reterminated by someone l later, 1
'8rg3i .
14 1 and'then not been-put back properly or may not have been re-2- ' termina ted ? -
.3 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
4 INVESTIGATOR: No problems with startup taking apart 5 your terminations, then?
-6 ,
MR. SANDOVAL: No.
7 INVESTIGATOR: Okay.
8 We have an allegation here relating to the insula-I g j ting materials that were used and we understand that you used I
10 up until approximately a year ago a material called Scotch 11 Fill', 2200?
12 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes.
I 13 INVESTIGATOR: And then an order came out,to dis-bl 14 p continue using it and use 130-C --
15 MR. SANDOVAL: Uh-huh. -
16 INVESTIGATOR: Did you have rectal fit program at 17 that time, Joe? Did you have to go back and have your men 18 redo the work that had been done on the Scotch Fill 2200?
19 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, there was some the heat, you I -
20 i know, will -- ah -- I don't know --
21 INVESTIGATOR: Cause the material to run?
22 . MR. SANDOVAL: I remember some, we had some over 23 at the water treatment plant that we had to redo on accc-ant of 24 . that. That's a lot;o'f (inaudible). I remember that we.had 25 -the redo the (inaudible).
l-
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'8rg4 1 15 1 INVESTIGATOR: Did you ever supervise the high-2- I voltage termination crew? s
?
3 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
, 4 INVESTIGATOR: No?
I' 5 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
6 ,
I?NESTIGATOR: No, okay. Not directly or --
7 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
8 IPNESTIGATOR: Yeah.
9 INVESTIGATOR: What crew do you have specifically?
l I
- 10 It's just a termination ~ crew?
1 11 I
MR. SANDOVAL: Yeah, small termination mostly.
l l
12 l Once in a while we, you know, QC termination'-- I mean f
13 . nuclear-related but very seldom 14 i; IINESTIGATOR: So you are on a basically non --
I -
15 I MR. SANDOVAL: Yeah.
16 ;; IINESTIGATOR: -- safety-related?
17 l MR. SANDOVAL: Yeah, mostly.
i 18 INVESTIGATOR: Joe, we had an allegation 'concerning whbn 19 I one cf "our ren'Kould rud a, connect a fi'eldcable with a two-bolt I
20 :l lug unit' and .they have to tie it into some tyne of connection, 21 , maybe a titickcr' he ad bn a Pretor and its sonebody, got a one-h n .
22 bolt lug and the a1 legation is th9t vhats heeri chi 6g 'on there in manu M c' ases is a twc-lolt lu is tein, Tastencd to a one-bolt lug and a ll il bolt's being placed throuch the second hole to make it look 24 li 25 like it was a two-bolt cor.nection?
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.I li N i l_ .
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-1. MR. SANDOVAL: No.
2 INVESTIGATOR: Do you know of anything like that?
3 MR. SANDOVAL: No.
4 INVESTIGATOR: All right.
5 But you wouldn't normally get involved in anything 6 like that (inaudible)? .
7 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, like you say we run (inaudible) 8 350,000 but they are not nuclear-related, you'*know, and we 9 have these (inaudible) I never seen anything like that done.
10 _ INVESTIGATOR: Okay.
11 INVESTIGATOR: Joe, with 38 years of experience, i
12 t and of course I realize that on nuclear projects you have t
'13 . closer control on qualite probably than anything else that you 1, ,
IL .
14 y have ever worked oc. -- do yta feel that the quality control 1
15 l inspectors here are able to do their ich without any problems
-li 16 l from construction suoervision?
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17 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes, I believe (inaudible).
18 INVESTIGATOR: Do you feel that in line with the 19 l Same questioning, that construction is not overriding quality 20 g control people?
f 21 INVESTIGATOR: R u are shaking your head "no,"'is II 22 ;; that right?
l 23
- MR. SAMDcVI.L : Uh-hmmn, .
l 24 INVESTIG; TOP: Okay. The tape can't see you.
25 ( Lin ug h te r . )
d 14 h
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srsi . i i 17 1 MR. SANDOVAL: Overriding? What do you mean by 2 overriding?
3 INVESTIGATOR: What I am talking about, we have an
. 4 allegation where a QC inspector hung a. red tag --
5 MR. SANDOVAL: Uhh-hmm.
6 INVESTIGATOR: And he thought he had a valid reason 7 to put that-red tag up there and stop the work until there 8 was some corrective action taken. In the particular case 9 reportedly the foreman came along and told him to get it the 10 j hell off of there and the young fellow ~wasn't goi'ng to fight l
11 i with an old experienced foreman so he took it off even though t
12 he didn't really feel it was right.
13 .
Are your people involved in high potting--high 14 pot testin;?
15 sir . SANDOVAL: No.
l 16 INVESTIGATOR: Okay.
l, We have an allegation that there 17 , INVESTIGATOR:
18 has been some excessive high potting on some cables and the 19 i reason the concern was made was that we have been told the I
20 .
Anaconda cable, that Anaconda has specifications with the
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21 L cable and says that they only guarantee the cable for cne f
22 ! high pot test and we h, ave an allegation that there haven't 23 ,, toen goo? records maintained on the high notting and in some l
24 j'instancesthere has been high potting (inaudible).
23 li :byc fo.: ecer observed anything like that?
P 4
Brg7*
18 1 MR. SANDOVAL: ~ I haven ' t.
2 . INTERVIEWER: The next area, Joe, concerns use of 3 0 rings-and bear in'nind this 'cause I don't k,.now the proper 4 terminology but I understand that conduits -- run down and it
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5 comes into a control panel or motor control center or some
~6 type of a junction box, that they have a fitting that is on 7' 1 the end of the conduit,' threaded so that it bolts down and 8 they'have a washer (inaudible).
9 MR. SANDOVAL: -- repair the pipes kind of thing.
10 . Don't you it contained there, you know? ;
11 INTERVIEWER: Would that be done by the wireman?
12- Is that the craft ~that would do the repair work?
13 ,i MR. SANDOVAL.: ':c . -
Pipe, yeah. But like I said ll 14 -I never' heard of a core frilling in one of the pipes.
1 15 . INTERVIEWER: I-think that that questions about -
I.
16 l using the (inaudible), that's a result. The procedures cover.
I 17 that. ,
16 INTERVIEWER: IIave you ever worked over in Unit 27.
.19 MR. SANDOVAL: The first time was I worked there, 20 I worked.in Unit 2, well, not terminating, no I was helping a 21 l; weidcr.
I 22 INTERVIEUER: Okry, let me -- You night know sone-23 j thing about this next a'. 3 e aa t.len. .
.m hnve relates that you have, struck 24 - The a ll ega t i o:.
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25 j' bracl:ets tha t are uhed # - '- rporting a cable tray --
- [e ql 11 9
11 m.
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19-
-1 MR. SANDOVAL: Uhh-hmm.
2 INTERVIEMER: -- or piping --
3 MR. SANDOVAL: Umm-hmm.
4 INTERVIEWER: -- and the a,llegation is that over 5 in Unit 2 have been some problems between foreman and some 6 of the. crafts including the wiremen and the story is told to 7' us they put their units strips up, it goes into an embed, 8 as well as to an emb,ed plate and when QC inspector buys it g off he has got some kind of a dye that he strikes apparently 10 with a hammer I vould assume --
11 . MR. SANDOVAL: Umn-hmm.
12 K INTERVIEWER: -- and puts his mark, his identifica-13 ; tion mark into the enhed plate and that shows anybody v.'ho 14
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locks at it that i t has been bought off by OC.
15 ' The story ,e are getting is that because of the
.16 hard feelings that haJe built up with some of the foremen l
17 i and crafts and OC that they -- some of the craftsman had gone i
18 over thcre, have changed some of the unit strips after they 19 h have been bought eff.and reweld them in a fashion that makes f
3). I, them in - f olation cf r.1eir design --
21 'j MR. S'.Z O' :.: Umm-hmm.
I 22 INTERVIE*ER: -- to get either the OC inspector in
! 23 . trouble or the fore.Sn.
I 24 Iiave you u'cer heard any stories like this?
.25 j,i .M R . F N .. W ' : No. I haven't.
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. BrgDI e . !. -20 1 1- l INTERVIEWER: _Okay, i
I' '.mnt to cover is the use
, 4 2 l- In the last area, Joe, l- .
-3 t 'of' ce ntre: drugs on site. What J ara talking about is we have'
- 4. had' allegations-that:there is an' excessive' amount of narcotics 5 _being used here on.the site, primarily marijuana --
- 6) MR. SAND' OVAL: Umm-hmm. ,
'7 INTERVIEWER: -- but also cocaine, some of the 8 anphetanines like black beauties and hashish. *
.1 -
l 9 ,
dave you observed any of this' drug traffic on the 1
1 10 i site?
1 t
11 ! MR. SANDOVAL: 1Perhaps.
I 12 l
,_ INTERVIE' R: !! ave -you smelled marijuana smoke in 113 the r.rets ,here you worked? .
I
- : :.". . SA::D% AL: es, I have, mache in the. lase two 15 years tha- I-have been here maybe once or twice. .
I
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16 ! INTERVIENEP: Trem your observations, do you con-1 17 ' sider'it a big problem here on the site?
~ 18 ?lR. SANDOVAL: No.
i 19 i
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever been approached by any-11 0
20 a one that .= ells drugs?
a!
9
- '.R . SA!;D0";L: ?;o .
- 21. .i e
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2 The time is now 10:15 in the morning of June 28th, Enf Interview.3 1982.
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_. , c, VA10 GEN INDEX 4 48
- APPEAL APPENDIX # 344 INTERVIEW OF JOE G. SANDOVAL & gg1982
' Case No.: 5-82-009 Transcript of tape recordedinterviewof: Joe G. SANDOVAL Date of Interview: June 28, 1982 Interviewers: Eugene J. POWER and Owen C. SHACKLETON Jr..
Investigators assigned to Region V. U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Purrese of Interview: To obtain SANDOVAL's responses to allegations made by Robert D. GUNDERSON Jr. , electrician, who formerly worked on Unit-1, PVNGS, in one of the electrical termination crews Location of Interview: NRC Resident Inspector's Office in the Arizona Public Service Construction at the PVNGS -
Conditions of Interview: Interview was conducted with SANDOVAL under oath 9
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INTERVIEW WITH SANDOVAL ,
June 28, 1982 SHACKLETON: This is an interview with Mr. Joe G. SANDOVAL.
Mr.'SANDOVAL is a Foreman, Electrical, presently working for Bechtel Power Corporation at the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station. This interview is taking plac~e on June 28, 1982, and the time now is approximately 9:47 a.m.
Present to conduct this interview from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission is Mr. Eugene J. POWER and myself, Owen C. SHACKLETON. Mr. POWER and'myself are Investigatcrs from Region V of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Mr. SANDOVAL, do'we have your permission to conduct this interview on tape?
SANDOVAL: Yes.
SHACKLETON: Mr. SANDOVAL, I understand that you would like to have a copy of the transcript of this tape, is that correct?
SANDOVAL: Yes.
[ ,
i SEACKLETON: 0.K. We will provide that to you as soon as our girls get it typed and we will = ail it to your home. Now Joe, I want to proceed on with our questioning and our questioning is based on.a list of allegations that were ,
- given to us, and the first one concerned the termination cards that your men complete after they connect cabling, which we refer to as terminations, and what we are trying to find out in this regafd is the practices that are being followed by foremen and management in getting these cards filled out, and specifically the problem area that has been identified to us is when, through one way or another, a card gets 1ost and the work has been done, and what do
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you do then? What is the normal' procedure that you follow?
! SANDOVAL: When the termination is done, the card is sent in and they lose it. Sometimes we will find a card and other times we ...
SEACKLETON: The way I understand what happens, Joe, maybe to refresh your memory, is when a card is' lost at engineering, as I understand, it comes up with another card and asks to get ,
j it fi} led out or gives it to the foreman.
'SANDOVAL: Well, yes, but that is right, and then we go on and check
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termination, you know, and if it is made according to the '
card, we check the terminations if anything is with the card, I believe, sign it off by him.
You say we - now how do you bandle that yourself? What SEACKLETON:
do you do?
SANDOVAL: What ,I do, they give me the card and then I will assign one of the men to it. This card was lost and I was going to find its location to see that the termination that has been donc is the same as the card and if it is, sign off.
SHACKLETON: 0.K. Now when you ask him to check the work and see if it has been done, according to what has been indicated on the card and sign'it off, now he signs what, his name?
SANDOVAL: Yes, but another thing - with the new card - since we take a ecol with us with a number on it, sometimes we will cut the lugs, reterminate, so we can have a tool number on this new card.
SEACKLETON: 0.K.,'so what you are saying is that when they go back and take a look at it and if*the work has already been completed, you are cutting it loose again and taking the crimping tool that the workman has and he recrimps it and then when he signs the card, he puts his name, his badge >
number, and his crimping tool number.
SANDOVAL: Right. So there are times that if we don't use a tool at all, we got a number that we just check the termination if it's done according to that card and it's in a workman-like manner, we dot a number. When we don't use a -
tool at all, which is ....
SEACKLETON: You have a code number, don't you?
l POWER: What number is that?
l l SASDOVAL: B-9999.
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l PO'aT2: ,
Frem whom do you receive new cards?
l SANDOVAL: Well, from our supervisor, from our superintendent, I mean, and then they go over to our General Foreman and our General Foreman ...
PO'a'ER : Who aye the individuals' names, now who are they? Who is your superintendent?
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SANDOVAL: Reggie JOHNSON is the Superintendent and Hector NUNEZ is ,
-our General Foreman '...
POWER:' How do you decide what electrician is going to go look at the previously installed termination?
SANDOVAL: Well, whoever is available at the time. . Sometimes everybody is out in the field and I keep my cards.there on the table and the first guy that comes along, I will just hand him the card ...
POWER: How many termination cards have you got that would have to be done over?
SANDOVAL: Not too many.
POWER: How many is not too many?
"SHACKLETON: What would you guess? Just a guess. By your experience.
, POWER: Do you get one a day, four a month ...
SANDOVAL: Maybe offhand I would say maybe half a dozen a week maybe, maybe there are weeks when we don't get any. .
- POWER
- How do you know they are new cards from previously done -
- work?
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. SANDOVAL: Well, because if we don t, there are times when we get a new card, any card, and we will go out and find the t -
termination already done. So what we do, like I said, we shape it up, or if we have to, we cut them off and ...
l POWER: So, in other words, from the card you can't make a determination - it's just .like any other.
i SANDOVAL: Right.
POWER: 5.K.,sosomeonehastogolookatit?
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh. Check it out.
POWER: Have you ever had situations where you give.it to an ~
electrician to look at and he declined to perform the work?
d SANDOVAL: No. ,
- POWER: Has anyone ever given a card back to you saying, "I don't vant to sign the card - that is absolute."?
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SANDOVAL: Well now, sometimes he will say that this is already done ,
(unintelligible) like you have done it. You checked it out and it's in accordance with the card (unintelligible).
POWER: Ras anyone ever refused to?
SANDOVAL: No.
POWER: We have sworn testimony of other individuals that you have asked the individual to fill out the' card and be has declined to do it. You can't recall any situation like that?
SANDOVAL: Well, I mean, like I say, he will say, well I can do it.
But you checked it out, didn't you? Yes. And it's in accordance with the card? Yeah. Just go ahead and sign it off because we have to send the signed card in. ,
POWEF.: Yeah right, but have you ever had anyone that, even though they checked it out, did not want to sign the card?
SANDOVAL: Not confused completely, no. Like I say, he will say,__
no, no, but I say well you have to, I mein you checked it out.
Is that according to procedure; do you have a pretedure POWER:
requirement for putting out cards for work that have been
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completed and terminated and then the card is lost?
SASDOVAL: Well, yeah, because like I said we have got ...
No ... are there written instructions relative to that?
I POWER:
SANDOVAL: No, no.
l POWER: But you have never had an individual give you back a card and basically refuse to sign it?
l SANDOVAL: No.
l PCWIR: Everyone generally goes along with it?
, SANDOVAL: Yeah, uh-huh.
j PCWER: To the best of your knowledge then, there is nothing l
wrong with that system?
s SANDOVAL: No.
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r C C SHACKLETON: See, the problem that arises, some people have said that ~
there is falsifica, tion of these records and that is the reason we are asking the questions of a lot of people like yourself, trying to find out what they mean or if there is validity in what they are saying. You see, what happens, Joe, is somebody did the work say on one termination and then somehow, for reasons we don't know, the card got lost and now another card'comes to you and you go check it and the work is done, and then you ask the workman, an electrician, to look at it and he looks at it, and you
.tell him to sign it off - now he didn't cut it. What we are getting to is a situation, what I am asking of you, is where they don't cut it and use their own crimping tool but just look at it, and then sign it off, .have you ever asked them to do that?
SANDOVAL: Like I said, he checked it out and didn't use his tool on it. Some other individual did it in a nice manner and he'll put this tool number like B-9999 ...
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SHACKLETON: 0.K., but would you use that tool number or code number when there was a crimping tool used by someone else - see one guy did it ...
SANDO7AL: Yeah ... .
SHACKLETON: ... and we don't know who nov 'cause time has past on and
-- the card is lost. Now, you have a second man come and .
look at it.
SANDOVAL: But like I said, we usually ask him to go ahead and cut it, reterminate, and then, and then, use his tool.
SHACK 1ETON: What I am asking, Joe, are there some occasions that have occurred when they haven't cut it and they have signed it off?
SANDOVAL: Yes.
SEACKLETON: There are occasions like that? See, that is the problem where this allegation comes from because technically - now you know because of 38 years, you know your work, undoubtedly, or you wouldn't be a foreman here - but from the standpoint of the public, you see, they look'at that and they will say well, this man signed it of f - he didn't de the work, he didn't ... caybe he looked at it, it .
looke,d allright ... now he puts his name and his badge number and now he puts his crimping tool number and it really wasn't his crimping tool.
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SANDOVAL: But see, this B-9999 is not a crimping tool. .
SEACKLETON: Yeah,-but do you ... what I am getting at ... do you have occasions where it has been crimped by someone and now we don'-t know who and we. don't know what that number was. We have got allegations that what some of the men are doing is'that they are puttfug their name and their badge number and their crimping tooi number, but that wasn't the crimping- tool that was used.
1 SANDOVAL: No, no.
SKACKLETON: Have you ha'd occasions where that has occurred that you
+ know of? . -
SANDOVAL: No, not even if you are not supposed to put a crimping tool number on it if he didn't terminate'it, you know.
SEACKLETON: 0.K., Gene, do I understand correctly. What I understand Joe saying is even though it had been crimped by another
- tool ...
POWER: They just use the number B-9999.
SEACKLETON: Is that correct, Joe, am I understanding you right?
SAND 0VAh.: ITn-huh.
SHACKLETON: but there was a crimping tool used at one time? O.K.,
and I think one of the problems, Joe, that we are finding out is that you have no procedure to handle when a card is , ,
lost. There is nothing in writing. There is no procedure to handle it when it has been lost, and so different foremen have done things in different ways ...
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh.
SEACKLETON: ... to try and handle this situation and this is where I think some of these a?}2gations are coming.
POWER: In reference to that, have you indicated that no one hac ever, you know, declined not to do it? Are you aware of
'- it ever occurring to any other foreman or Superintendent or General Foreman that someone did not want to do it -
right -
SAN'DOVAL: No. ,
g, . POWER: Have you ever heard of anyone being threatened or ,
' pressured into'it or they are going to lose their job?
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SANDOVAL: No. .
P0k'ER: Are you aware of any situation where individuals, although they have executed termination cards, the new termination cards, they were actually doing them under protest?
SANDOVAL: No.
s .
POk'ER: Are you aware of any termination card that has ever been
, given to an electrician that was already signed by a name and they were told to go look at the work? The card is already completed ...
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SANDONAL: Uh-huh. ~ ' '
P0kTR: ... but they were sent back to look at it anyway?
SANDOVAL: No.
P0kTR:, Are you aware of any entries of f alse signatures on the card?.
SANDOVAL: No. .
SHACKLETON: k*nere someone has written another man's name ...
-SANDOVAL: No. ,
SHACKLETON: 0.K., have you ever been directed by your management, either frem your General Fore =an or from your Superintendent to have yciur =en sign off termination cards for work they didn't perform?
SANDOVAL: No.
SHACKLETON: You never have?
SANDOVAL: No.
PO*aTR: I have one more questien. Vnen you get some of the new ccrds for work previously done, is there any research - I understand you now have a' record available ... (tape runs ou t)
Pok'ER: (Continuing on next tape) ... now to practice ... just to .
make 3.. you do now?
SANDOVAL: Yes.
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POWER: You'do now? .
SANDOVAL': Yes.
POWER: Do you go back to the.research,'that book when you ...
'SANDOVAL: Yeah.
POWER: Now, why don't you extract that information and put it on the new card and somewhere indicate on the card someone has gone out and checked the work that was previously installed by whoever was here at the time?
SANDOVAL: (No response is heard on tape)
POWER: I'm not saying that is the way to do it, I am just asking '
why it's not done that way so the original crimping t'ool-
- and the name of the original installer is not used - any reason, do you know?
SANDOVAL: ' No. Like I say, we don't get too many cards like that
, and when I do, I go back and try to see who done it.
POWIR: Who did it? You give it back to them?
.SANDG7AL: Uh-huh, yeah. Because it's easier because they know just where it is and they always know time (unintelligible) and blueprint (unintelligible). It doesn't take long.
e POWER: You've got the tape going?
SRACKLETON: Yeah. It's working. Joe, we vill go on with this list.
Have you, in your experience here, ever witnessed any splicing of cables that have been damaged without getting engineering or QC' involved?
f SANDOVAL: No.
SRACKLETON: And your response is no?
i SASDOVAL: Say that again, now. Cc=e again.
SRACKLETON: , Have you ever witnessed, uh, any splicing of cables without QC or engineering being involved? What I am talking about, Joe, is we have an allegation with some cables that were damaged by welding slag dropping down on the welding tray and rather than pulling the cable and running a new cabic, the allegation is that some type of repair kit was used and the danaged cable was repaired at l
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that point and QC wasn't advised, engineering wasn't ,
called in,-and no paperwork was made up.
SANDOVAL: No.
SRACKLETON: You know of no incidents like that?
SANDOVAL: No.
SHACKLETON: Allright. Have you or your men had any problems with -
.after you put - you make a termination and it has been bought off and then your men come back maybe to work in the area again later and find the termination has been determinated by someone and may not have been put back properly or may not have been reterminated?
SANDOVAL: No.
SHACKLETON: .No problems with startup taking apart your terminations, then?
SANDOVAL: No.
SEACKLETON: 0.K. We have an allegation relating to the insulating ,
materials that are used and we understand that you used, up until apprer.imately a year ago, a material called' Scotch Field 2200? -
SANDOVAL: Yeah.
SEACKLETON: And then, uh, an order came out to discontinue using that and use 130 C. .,-
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh.
SRACKLETON: Did you have a retro-fit program at that time, Joe? Did -
you have to go back and have your men re-do the work that had been done with the Scotch Field 22007 SANDOVAL: Well, there was, uh, some that the heat, you know, well ... I don't know ...
SHACKLETON: ... cause the material to run?
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh. I remember some. We'had some ct the water treatment plant that we had to re-do on account of that. -
That ,is about all - only once I ever recenber that we had to re-do with new tape. .
P0i'ER: Did you ever supervise the high-voltage terminatien crew?
SANDOVAL: No, no.
POWER: No? 0.K. This is not directly yours then?
SANDOVAL:. No. -
POWER: Yeah. What crew do you have specifically?
SEACKLETON: Just a termination crew?-
SANDOVAL: Yeah. On small terminations mostly. Once in a while, we get a QC ternination, I mean, nuclear related, but very seldom and motors low voltage motors.
POWER: Basically none safety-related.
SANDOVAL: Yeah, yeah, mostly..
SRACKLETON: Joe, we have an allegation concerning when your men run a ... connect a field cable with a two-bolt lug on it and they have to tie it into some type of connection - maybe a peckerhead on a motor - it's only got a one-bolt and the allegation was that what .has been going on out here in many cases is that two-bolt lugs have been fastened to a one-bolt lug and a bolt is being placed through the second hole to make it look like it's a two-bolt connection.
-$ANDOVAL: No. .
SHACKLETON: Do you know of anything like that?
SANDOVAL: No..
SHACKLETON: Allright.
POWER: But you wouldn't normally get involved with that anyway, right? That would nornally be a high-voltage termination?
SANDOVAL: Well, uh, like we say, we have done motors 350,000 but they are not nuclear related, you know, and we have used a lot of lugs before but I have never seen anything like ,
that done.
SHACKLETON: (Pause) Joe, 1 think.with 38 years of experience, and of course I realize that on nuclear projects you have closer controls on quality probably than anything else, that you have pver worked on, uh, do you feel that your quality control inspectors here are able to do their job without
. any problems from construction supervision?
[.. t c 11-SANDOVAL: Yeah, I believe they can. Yeah. .
SKACKLETON: . Do you feel _ that in line with the same questioning that constrsction is not overriding qua ity l control people?
You are shaking your head no, is that right?
'SANDOVAL: Right.
SKACKLETON: 0.K. The tape cannot see you. That is the reason why I repeated it.
SANDOVAL: What do you mean by overriding?
SEACKLETON: Well, what I am talking about, .we have an allegation where a QC inspector hudg a red tag ...
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON: ... and he thought he had a valid reason to put that red red tag up there and stop the work until there was some corrective action taken, and in the particular case, reportedly the foreman came along and told him to get it the hell off there and the young fellow was not going to fight with an old experienced foreman, so he took it off even though he didn't really feel it was right. .
SANDOVAL: No.
SRACKLETON: Are your people involved in high potting? Doing some -
high pot testing?' .
! SANDOVAL:. Uh, no.
SHACKLETON: We have an allegation that there has been some excessive high potting on some cables and the reason the concern was made was that we have'been. cold the Anaconda cable -
that Anaconda has specifications with the cable that says that they only guarantee the cable for one high pot test.
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh.
SKACKLETON: ... and we have an allegction that there haven't been
[ good records maintained of the high porting and in some l:
instances, there has been high potting two and three times or more on the same cable. Have you ever observed anything like that? .
s SANDOVAL: No, I haven't.
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.t C C SHACKLETON: (Pause) The next area, Joe, concerns the use of '
"O" rings, and bear with my ignorance because I don't know the proper terminology, but I understand that conduit.
- when it is run down and it comes into a control panel or motor control center ,or some type of a junction box, that '
they have a fitting that is on the end of the conduit that is threaded so that it bolts down and they have a washer they call an "O" ring that goes in there to make it water '
tight.
SANDOVAL: Uh-huh.
SHACKLETON: Do your people work with anything like that?
SANDOVAL: No. -I haven't bedn involved with that at all.
SHACKLETON: 0.K. Now we have an allegation that there was a period ~
of time when Unit 1, for about six months - I guess in this past year when they didn't have any "0" rings. For some reason there weren't any, and the men were told to go ahead and run the piping anyway, and it was done without the use of "O" rings.
SANDOVAL: No, I have no knowledge of that because I was never involved in that.
SHACKLETON: The next area concerns where the men sometimes have to
-- make a core drilling through a wall to run a conduit and reportedly, in some cases, when they have done the drilling, they have hit the conduit, existing conduit, and have done da= age to it and then it has to be repaired. ,
S/200 VAL: -Uh-huh.
-SHACKLETON: Are you aware of any circumstances like that?
SANDOVAL: No.
P C'a'ER : Do you know who does their core drilling?
SA'00 VAL: Some company. I see their trucks around. They do the core drilling. I don't ...
POL'ER: Who is that, do you know offhand?
S/2 0 VAL: No, I don't. I have seen some trucks here but I never paid f.ny attention who the conpany is.
. SHACKLETON: Joe, if this did occur, and you got damaged conduit, then 1
... c c who has the responsibility to fix it? Is the repair work '
'done by one of your crews or one of Bechtel's crews or ...
SANDOVAL: Well, something like that. I never heard of a pipe being cut by a cor.e drill, but in case - well if it's encased.in concrete, I guess they would have to break the concrete and~ repair the pipe, I~mean, if there are wires in there, you know ...
SHACKLETON: Would that be done by the wiremen. Is that the craft that would do the repair work?
SANDOVAL: The pipe, yeah. But like I say, I have never heard of a ... ,
POWER: Never heard of it?
SANDOVAL: ... of a core c* rill drilling into one of the pipes.
SHACKLETON: I think that, Gene, that question about using pigtails,
' that's resolved. There is a procedure to cover that.
POWER: 0.K.
SHACKLEION: Have you ever worked over in Unit 2? .
SANDOVAL: Uh, the first five months I worked here I worked in
- Unit 2 - well that - no. terminating, no. I was helping a ,
welder.
SHACKLETON: 0.K. Well, let me - You might know something about this next allegation. The allegation we have relates to uni-strut brackets that are used for supporting cable trays for piping and the allegation is that over in Unit 2, there have been some problems between foremen and some of the' crafts,. including the wiremen and as the story is told to us, they put their uni-strut up that goes into an imbed, it is welded to an imbed plate and when a QC ihspector buys it off, he has got some kind of a die that he strikes apparently with a hammer I would assume and puts his identification mark into the Lebed place and that shows to anybody that looks at it that it has been bought off by QC. The story we are getting is that because of the hard feelings that have built up with some of the foremen and crafts and QC, that some of the craftsmen have gone over and have changed some of the uni-struts after
- they are bought off and re-welded them in a fashion that makes'them in violation of their design to get either the QC inspector in trouble or the foremen. Have you ever heard of any stories like this?
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14 SANDOVAL': No, I haven't.. ,
.iHACKLETON: 0.K. In the last area, Joe, I want to cover, is the use I -
of controlled drugs on site, and what I am talking about is that we have had allegations' that there is an excessive amount of narcotics used on the site, primarily marijuana, and also cocaine and some of the amphetamines like " black beauties" and hashish. Have you observed any of this drug traffic on the site?
SANDOVAL: Sure have.
SRACKLETON: Have you smelled the~ marijuana smoke in areas where you have worked? ,
SANDOVAL: Yes, I have. Maybe in the last two years that I have been here, maybe once or twice. ,
. SEACKLETON: Fres your observations, do you consider it a big problem here on the site?
SANDOVAL: No.
l SKACKLETON: Have you ever been approached by anyone to sell drugs to you?
SANDOVAL: No, no.
SEACKLETON: Gene, do you have any questions?
P0k'ER: No. .
SRACKLETON: Joe, we appreciate your cooperation and we 'will bring this interview to a close. The time is now 10:15 in the morning of June 28, 1982.
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