ML20071P883

Comments on Governors Plan Prepared by Ny State Disaster Commission.Evacuation of Wheelchair & Bedridden Patients & Shelter for 1,200 Mentally Retarded Patients Overlooked

ML20071P883
Person / Time
Site:	Indian Point
Issue date:	06/06/1983
From:	Fleisher Z WEST BRANCH CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION
To:	Ahearne J, Gilinsky V, Palladino N NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
References
ISSUANCES-SP, NUDOCS 8306080200
Download: ML20071P883 (16)

Text

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BRANCH COi3ERVATION ASSOCIATION

? " 'r r, 443 BUENA VISTKROAD

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NEW CITY N Y 10956 June.g,u.83 19

/, d, : g Commissioner Nunzio Palladino, Chairman Commissioner Victor Gilinsky Commissioner John F. Ahearne Docket No. 50-247-SP Commissioner Thomas M. Roberts 50-286-SP Commissioner James K. Asselstine Dear Commissioner We lost one of our County Legislators last week and yes-terday the County Attorney passed away. It is very possible that Mr. Herbert Reisman has not had time to review the

" Governor's Plan" which is the compensating plan dated May 27, 1983 put forth by the New York State Disaster Prepared-ness-Commission.

Therefore, I am submitting some of a cri-tique several of us have put together.

4 At the time we cross examined Mr. Donald Davidoff, in charge of New York State Radiological preparedness under the Com-mission with such responsibilities, he was evasive and we found he had many holes in his testimony. Especially as regards quantification. No one has ever been able to say how many buses would be needed to fulfill the Rockland plan sent us by the utilities, nor the number of volunteers who would be needed in a best or worst case.

Mr. Davidoff did-not know what type of plan the Helen Hayes #

-hospital had to move its wheelchair and bedridden patients, it i a rehabilitation hospital for New York State.

Nor could he explain what measures would be taken for the 1200 patients in the Letchworth Developmental Center (mentally retarded).

L We-had interveiws with the people in charge there and Mr.

Norman Szymanski stated.there could be no sheltering in the i

basements due to their condition.

However, he refused to testify at-the ASLB hearings without a subpoena because he is a State employee.

The same goes for Dr. John Lindsay, the head of Helen Hayes hospital.

We decided not to press'these two fine gentlemen who are doing such good work.

We are sorry now that we did not albeit we i

so stated before the court.

We don't enjoy forcing our good citizens.

Had we then realized how important their testi-many might be we should have made other efforts to get it.

There is no plan for fast removal of their patients. We urge you t o find out just what is the plan by speaking to them, not to the proponents of this new plan.

YTR 11344: 15-11345: 16, 11415: 17h1416:6 8306080200 830606 PDR ADOCK 05000247 m O

PDR L

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f.

Mr.Szymanski'splannecessitatesmovinghil3291entsa f

great distance and it would be most difficult.

If you. read the mission statements in the new State plan you l

will note that thos,e listed under Section II rely heavily on j

the Division of State Police, subsections A, B, C,D, E, G, H, J and M.

Surely some explanation of how the officers would be transported, how many helicopters are available, how many l

they seat, etc. should be in somebody's work papers. If not, l

then we need to know how it can be assumed that there are methods of getting enough State police to help.

There are not many stationed in Rockland County and Mr. Phil Schmer stated he would expect help from them also, so that if two counties were involved there could be an even larger require-ment for personnel from the State Police including Orange.

Similarly we note the Office of Mental Health, subsections of II, G, H, K and N we question.

During both the 1982 and i

1983 drills Rockland Psychiatric Hospital, under the direc-tion of Chief Grante of the Security Department was supposed to exercise the decontamination of people and buses.

West Branch had observers at both drills and the effort was not

.even minimal.

This year the pool wasn't even set up. We wonder how many personnel they could muster.E The State RERG should be asked to spell out their conclusions that personnel can be mustered.

We left with you a chart from the telephone book showing the map and the exchanges by zone designation which can give you an idea where some of the personnel whose phone numbers are listed may have to travel from.

Other first three digit numbers do not appear ~on the chart so must be further away.

We.wont reiterate our arguments against the choice of shel-tering. Our providers state that people will % elf evacuate."*

We find the brochure page 20 odius. Since it is an annual booklet we know the claim to have saved 20 million barrels of oil is twice the figure it should be, with #3 unit down 14 months. As well as the claim of 20 years of service. #3 went on line in 1976, #2 in 1973, #1 fitfully before them and down for years. We don't like the propaganda.+

Section III, H. 6 does not provide for any traffic control on route 9W north of route 210.

It would be very important to provide road blocks on 9W at each feeder road to provent people from going northward toward the plants.

Has the State added up the number of traffic control points where at least one officer is needed? Will he have on him a radio that he can use to communicate to the substation should he need assistance?

s

• TR 11355:: 16-11359: 1.

t TR 11332:20-11335: 24

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Regrettably this letter continues -

j Pages III-22 and 23 show an incorrect 1980 population, l

short by 17%.

Too bad we have to be ever vigilant but j

it is not our fault if the State persists in quoting through this substitute plan the Parsons, Brinkerhoff errors.

The l

State is aware that the population in Rockland County as per the 1980-census is 109,000 in the EPZ, not 92,993. We cannot i

understand why it persists in using the lower, 1970 figure.

i l

17% is not an inconsequential amcunt.

Rockland County's L

draft plan uses the figure of 108,000 in the EPZ.

j Of the,four counties surrounding Indian Point Rockland has two-special geographical problems unique to it.

Its EPZ is 2/5ths its total population and about half its geographic Westchester's EPZ has but 1/7 of its total popuhtion area.

and far more resources outside the EPZ from which to draw.

More publicly owned buses, more personnel not involved in transporting their families and therefore more possible out-t side-the-EPZ assistance.

Additionally, Rockland is,in effect, an island with the Hudson River to the east and mountains surrounding it on all other compass points, resulting in i

a far more difficult road network for evacuation purposes.

The dependence on the use of helicopters is generally safe but there are times of the year when the weather grounds them.

It seems too risky to depend for monitoring teams on their helicopter travel from Brookhaven,as per page I-4 Page II-1, section II,A. " Initially an executive of Helen Hayes Hospital will assume this responsibility..." Our EOC has not been visited by such person and it should be estab-lished that such an important function is preempted, if it I

will be, by a person familliar with the operation of the Rockland County E00.

Attached newspaper clipping answers the quantification problem tyically. Plan asks for four telephone operators from Rockland Psychiatric and they advise they don't even l

have four, let alone are able to lend four.

The TR references inserted in this letter refer to the ASLB hearing transcripts.

Other conflicts can be foudn by comparing the transcript of the Citizens Advisory Committee meeting of May 16 which Mr.

Reisman submitted to you on May 26.

Sincerely, Z. S. Fleisher xc: H. Reisman, E. Thorsen Secretary

--, -3

THE JOURNAL-NEWS, SUNDAY, JUNE, 5,1983 INDIAN: POINT C Continued from Al facilities cited an apparent Catch-22.

"We're right in the middle," said' Norman Szymanski, associate director at Letchworth. "Who's going to be here in the way of-staff to care for these t hworth has enough ehibes on' hand to trans2 port rpproximately half.of its 1,600 severely disabled patients, he said. An evacuation would be extremely difficult, Szymanski added, since one-fifth of the total are bedridden or restricted to wheelchairs. His facili-ty will cooperate with Rockland as it develops new plans, he said, but it is obligated to participate in the l

tnterim state plan, as well as protect its staff and patients.

Terrie Goldstein, public relatioris director at Rock-land Psychiatric Center, knew little about Cuomo's

- plan. "They're still working on it in Albany. This hasn't been presented to us...It's just a plan, not a formal document." -

~

Under the plan, four of the. centets telephone cperators would be dispatched to Pomona..Yet Ms.

Goldstein said, "I am not sure that this is feasible. We T

(

do.not have four telephone operators on (any) one shift."'

l And Val Brown, community liaison ariministrator' tt Eden Hayes, said, "You guys get (information) up there faster than we get it down here." She said all she knew for certain was that the hospital's chief,

executive officer, Dr. Robert Lindsay, would fill in for the chairman of' the state Disaster Preparedness

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Cuomo's plan, Dr. Lindsay would " assign missions and

d.. SC rings one up' Commission until he arrived from Albany. Under tasks, direct courses of action which control the' operation whatever the emergency, inform the public, T

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and provide. resource continuity for.the response.

G wa wI E Gw IwV

.effortwithin Rockl.and County.".

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NEW YORK (AP) - Except for some areas of m..

4 Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and Rockland counties, New York Telephone Co. service in the downstate area so far this year has been generally satisfactory, the Public Service Commission says.

Commission chairman Paul L. Gioia said Monday that 22 of the 44 central offices in Nassau County averaged more than 6.2 trouble reports per 100 telephones and called this "an unsatisfactory level."

. He added that only five troubles per 100 telephones were reported there in the first quarter of 1982.

As for Suffolk County, Giota said 10 of the 38 central offices had unsatisfactory levels of trouble, D compared with three in the first quarter of last year.

]* inan said,13 central offices out of 56 showed unsatis-In Westchester and Rockland counties, the chair-p factory levels of trouble reports in one or more months during 1983's first quarter. He added:

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" Staff reviews indicated that laxity.in central office maintenance routines had ::ontributed to the Q unsatsifactory level of trouble reports."

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L 11244

/

1 Q.

I want to discuss the subject. Do you 2

feel that we are, in Rockland, or even in 2

Westchester, in substantial compliance with each 4

of the planning standards with respect to those 5

that. apply to the disabled?

6 A.(Witness Davidoff)

Yes.

7 Q.

Have you read the testimony of, is it 8

Mr. Kaminsky7 9

A.(Witness Davido f f)

I am not familiar I know who he is by organizational role in 10 with 11 the county. I am not familiar with his testimony.

12 Q.

Have you spoken to Mrs. Northrop in e

13 nockland County, social services?

14 A.(Witness Davidoff)

No.

15 Q.

Have you spoken'to !!a l e n Hayes 16 Hospital, in Rockland County?

17 A.(Witness Davidof f)

Yes.

18 Q.

What is their plan for moving the 19 disablad?

20 A.(Witness Davidof f)

I am advised by the 21 chief administrator of Helen Hayes Hospital, Dr.

22 Lindsay, that his~ staff has been fully trained in 23 relation to this plan, that he has adequate means 24 at his disposal to move patients when and if that 25 becomes necessary, and that if he needs additional TAYLOE ASSOCIATES

11345-1 resources he will contact nis direct liaison

.l 2

person who is. located under our state compensating 3

measures at thc Rockland Coun y e m. o r g e n c y centar.

4 Q.

Has he any letters of agreement with 5

any busses?

i 6

A.(Witness Davidoff)

I have no knowledge 7

of that.

8 Q.

Is that the plan for Uclen Hayes 9

Hospital that you just described?

10 A.(Witness Davidof f)

I paraparased it s

11 very briefly, but yes.

12 Q.

How could they. move 200 wheel chair

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13 patients, when we do not have that many wheel 14 chair busses? Have.you made any check of that?

15 A.(Witness Davidoff)

No. I believe Dr.

16 Lindsay.

17 Q.

So do I.

18 Page 13, please. Your next to last 19 sentence says, "After thorough review the 20 transportation i

21 A.(Witness Davidoff)

Page 13?

22 Q.

I am sorry. Page 9.

I did say page 13, 23 didn't I?

24 A.(Witness Davido f f)

Yes. I have located r*-

g 25 the sentence.

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55 9 #.

1 Q.

The'y are not looking for radiological

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plans hf 2

A.

(Witness Davidoff) They are not at my D,. 3; 5E?. 4 request.

fI. 5 Q.

There are documents between you and 6

they?

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7 A.

(Witness Davidoff) Yes.

NE

. 8 Q.

You don't know what the status of hf 9

their survey and their endeavor is at this point?

N.

l SL 10 MR. CZAJA: It misstates the witness' Y:

14 11 testimony.

He just testified as to what his EY y 12 understanding of their efforts were.

I object.

Eg:, 13 MR. KAPLAN: I don't believe that's D

{ 14 the case.

Then if it is, the witness will say the

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15 same thing.

i-I 16 JUDGE GLEASON: Was is the case?

17 THE WITNESS:

(Witness Davido f f) What r

18 I intended to say that every hospital, nursing g

19 home and health-related facility within the 13 20 mile Emergency Planning Zone had been contacted 21 sometime between March of l'982 and March of 198.3, 22 alerting them to their existing responsibilities 23 and calling those responsibilities to their 24 attention and asking for a response from the 25 facilities.

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Q.

Do you know what responses have come

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A.

(Witness Davidoff) No.

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f3 4

Q.

Therefore, obviously you don't kn'w

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5 whether the responses are adequate?

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6 A.

(Witness Davidoff) That's correct.

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7 Q.-

Let me ask you a question about a j iih 8

different subject.

You are familiar with the t e rm

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ing e s't i o n pathway, I assume?

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.IjR'i 10 A.

(Witness Davido f f) Yes.

11 Q.

That's the 50 mile zone?

12 A.

(Witness Davido f f) Generally speaking, 13 50 miles.

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14 Q.

New York City is within that 50 mile in 15 zone, can we agree to it?

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16 A.

(Witness Davido f f) I think at least

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17 parts of it are.

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,' li ti lo Q.

A'1most all.

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19 Mr. Czech, do you know who L e o n a rd i M s.

in k 20 Solan is?

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21-A.

(Witness Czech) Yes.

sn j!; ;E WIFl 22 Q.

Dr. Davidoff, I assume you know him?

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33 A.

(Witness Davidoff) Yes.

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34 4

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Q.

I guess you are both doctors?

1 25 A.

(Witness Davidoff) Just two misters.

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4

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A-----

T 11355 1

County, and I want to know if he has read their l

j 2

testimony.

3 He said only one. And therefore I i

l 4

vant to ask if he would accept that the other 5

three also do not agree with his statement.

6 JUDGE GLEASON:

Well, I don't know 7

how he can accept that without reading their 8

testimony.

l 9

MS. F L E I S il E R :

Well, before the 10 Public Service Commission we have a zinger that i

11 gets around those problems.

l l

12 JUDGE CLEASON:-

Well, we don't have 1 - c=:-

s -

13 very many zingers here.

l 14 Q.

Would you turn to page 147

(

15 A.(Witness David o f f)

Tha t's where 'I am.

i l

16 Q.

Oh, I am sorry. Page 16?

17 A.

(Witness Dav idof f)

Yes.

18 Q.

The very last line on 16, which then 19 dose on to 17, says, 'The State of New York has l

20 not made a specific study of the sheltering 21 capacity of the EP3."

l 22 Who would you expect to make such a l

23 study in order to determine whether or not 24 sheltering would be adequate for the public in the 4-l 25 EP27 a' A I L O E As5VGIATES

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11355-1-

A.(Witness Davidoff)

I wouldn't expect e

2 anyone to wake a survey, as such.

3 C.

isn't this a terribly i=portant thing, 4

whether or not to shelter?

5 A.(Witness Davidoff)

The kind of building 6

is a factor in sheltering decisions, yes.

7 Q.

Why, then, would you assume that 8

there are enough dwellings, without making a study 9

of it?

10 A.(Witness Davidof f)

I'd like to defer 11 further questions about sheltering to Mr. Czech.

I 12 Is that all right with you?

I

'h 13 Q.-

sure 14 A.

(Witness Czech)

I think'tne key to 15 this question is what are we talking about in 16 terms of shelters. I gather from your question 17 that you are talking about a hardened facility l

18 similar to the Civil Defense type of shelters that I

19 would provide protection 20 Q.

I am sorry, sir, no. In parlance, l

21 generally, I believe in this room, when we have 22 been talking about it, une sheltering has meant l

l 23 going into the basement of a priva te home or into l

24 the center hall of an institution, or crowding

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25 away from tne windows.

j.

TAYLOE ASSOCIATES

11357 1

A.(Nitness Czech)

It still sounds like a 2

civil defense shelter.

3 The type of shelter we are talking 4

about will protect the people from the elements, 5

but also will minimize the air exchange. It's true 6

that if you go into the basement, if you have one, 7

or into the central part, that whatever radiation 8

would be external to the house, that it would 9

provide additional protection.

10 But the main part in the radiological 11 cmergency of this type is to minimi=c the air 12 exchange. The people in the.EPt have a dwelling to 13 live in, and typically in the northeast, because

{]

/

14 of the climate, we do have homes that are air 15 tight, so there is some protection just because 16 it's too expensive to heat unless you have an air 17 tight residence or dwelling.

18 Q.

There are two exhibits, one I would

[

19 ask if you are familiar with because it comes from 20 a' ASHRA book, and that is a pretty standard thing, 21 where they state a change of air in the home tal es 22 place one and a half changes every hour or more.

23 Are you taking that into consideration in your 24 answer about the air tightness of the house?

L s

25 MR. FEINBERG:

Your Honor, I believe TAILOE A5dOCIATt3

l 11353-1 the witness should be shone the book.

2 MS. FLEISHER:

I will ask another 3

question.

4 Q.

Do you know the ACHRA standard which 5

describe-how often an air change takes place in a 6

typical frame house?

7 A.

No. I am not familiar with that. I am a

familiar with a couple of discussions with the 9

environmental protection industry about shelters, 10 and that is one that talks about air excnanges and 11 types of considerations one would have te consider 12 whether shelters or evacuation might be the

(];

13 protective action o f choice.

14 Q.

Sir, you were the one who said 15 something about the air change or tightness of the 16 house. Right?

17 A.(Witness Czech)

Correct.

~

18 Q.

I would expect, then, that you know 19 what type of air change to expect when you 20 recommend shelter.

21 And also may I ask you do you know 22 what type of house is generally the type that 23 exist in Rockland County and ~4estchester?

24 A.(Witness C=ech)

I don't have specific T_'

s 25 information as to the types, just in general for 11359 1

two enw+wooe+ ena tha voz a nmro + e TAXLOU AbovGiATh6

6/

11332 I

do you have a 1

Q.

Will you turn to r

2 booklet with you?

3 A.(Witndss Davidoff)

Pardon?

t 4

Q.

Do you have a booklet with you?

7 think we do not.

5 A.(Witness Davidoff) 6 Q.

Right now I am talking about the 7

later one, which has now been called UCS. It would i

8 be WBCA number 1,

and there is another one this 9

is a UCS NYPIRG number. It was evidently 10 introduced sometime.

11 A.

(Witness Davidof f)

Excuse me. Th'e 12 one that was handed to us is numbered 4.

( )

13 Q.

Yes. But it has been introduced into 14 the record as~UCS NYPIRG 14. Well, tha t's my 15 number on mine.

16 A.

(Witness Davidof f)

All right.

l 17 Q.

I don't think it's that important. I

'18 am asking you to turn to page 20?

l l

19 A.(Witness Davido f f)

Yes.

20 Q.

Has Indian Point number 3 been shut i

21 for almost a year now?

1 l

i 22 A.(Witness Davidoff)

I don't know.

I I

23 Q.

When it says in the second paragraph,

[

24 "By using nuclear energy," and so forth. in l

u' u

25 considering that one of the two plants is down, l

i

11333-1 you said you don't.know, I have to get around that V'

L ""

2.

somehow. Will you take it, subject to check, that 3

Indian Point h'a s not been on line, and therefore 4

number 3,

and that number 2,

indeed, has been on 5

line some parts of 1982 and 1983?

6 JUDGE PARIS:

Ms. Fleisher, we are 7

l o.s t. What page are you on?

8 MS. FLEISHER:

20.

9 JUDGE GLEASON: Chank you, Ms.

10 Fleisher-11 Q.

Mr. Davidoff, will you take it

~12 subject to check that Indian Point is closed now?

f 13 A.(Witness Davidoff)

I will check. It's 14 none of my business.

15 Q.

Isn't it your business to be accurate i

I 16 in the literature that is put out?

17 A.(Witness Davidoff)

Yes.

l 18 Q.

All right.

19 Isn't it your business to know, i

l 20 t'herefore, that if half the amount of oil you l

21 proposed to save is not being saved, that you 22 should so state?

23 A.(Witness Davidof f)

Absolutely.

24 Q.

Well, it says in this booklet, and I s

25 am asking you to address it, the 20 million TAYLOE ASSOCIATES

O 11334 1

barrels of oil'being saved each year.

/",

2 Now, I want to ask you, if one out of l

3 two of these f'airly equally sized stations is not t

t 4

operating, are you saving 20 million barrels?

-5 A.(Witness Davidoff)

It could very well i

6 be. I know that the public information staff who i

'7 was part of our' group checked this entire document, 8

advised me that the document is accurate. If not, 9

we would not have signed off on it.

10 Q.

Are-you stating, then, that 20 11 million barrels is an accurate number?

12 A.

To the best of our knowledge, it is.

1

-()

13 Q.

Now I ask you another question, then.

14 Will-you answer why this information is in this i-15 booklet at all?

16 A.(Witness David o f f)

It is optional, in 17 my judgment. We did not object to its inclusion.

t 18 Q.

Does it help people to evacuate from 19 their homes?

20 A.(Witness Davidoff)

No.

21 Q.

Would one hope to make a booklet as l

22 short and concise as possible, and concentrate i

23 only on helping people?

24 MR. FEINBERG:

Objection. The booklet l

%~

y 25 is designed to do more than help people evacuate.

l TAYLOE ASSOCIATES

11335-1 Q.

Emergency Planning and You.

j' S 2

JUDGE GLEASON:

Let the witness

~ ~

3 respond.

4 A.

(Witness Davidof f)

Conciseness, in 5

and of itself, is not necessarily a virtue.

6 Q.

Thank you. It is right now, though, 7

'in our answers.

8 On the back of it it says Four County 9

Nuclear Safety Committee. May I ask you why it 10 doesn't say Three County Nuclear Safety Committee?

11 A.(Witness Davidoff)

To the best of my 12 knowledge, the safety committee, which was a loose

(

13 confederation of the four counties, still exists.

L 14 Q.

Haven't you read some of the 15.

resolutions that.have been entered into this case 16 as evidence by Mr. Thorsen from the Rockland 17 County Legislature, particularly, I believe, it's l

18 number 320, May 15, but I may not be correct, in l

19 which it states that Rockland County is not a part, 20 shall not be a part, of that?

21 A.(Witness Davidoff)

I did not know that.

22' Q.

How many of these booklets have been l

23 printed?

j L

24 A.(Witness David o f f)

I do not know.

A 4

25 Q.

Have they been distributed all TAYLOE ASSOCIATES