ML20129B154
| ML20129B154 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/13/1985 |
| From: | Young B TOLEDO EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290091 | |
| Download: ML20129B154 (161) | |
Text
. . - . . . . . . . . _ - - _ - . . - _.._- - .- . . . - --.
'- G O- } f r
1 1 BEFORE THE PACT FINDING TASK FORCE i- 2. OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ,
3 _ _ _ _ _
4 s
j 5 Re:
.6' Davis-Besse event :
7 of June 9, 1985 :
8 i 9 - - - - -
10 INTERVIEW OF BRIAN YOUNG f.
11 - - - - -
f
! 12 Interview of BRIAN YOUNG by the Nuclear ,
h - 13' Regulatory = Commission Fact Finding Task Force,
- j. 14 taKen-'before me,' Nicholas A'. Ma rrone ,- a Registered I t
. .15 Prof essional Reporter and Notary Public in and for !
j 16 the State of Ohio, a t- the Site Emergeny Operations
! .17 JCenter, Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak H a r b'o r ,
i
~
18 Ohio,.on.Tnursday, June.~13,-1985,- commencing at 19 ' 9:10 o' clock a.m.
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21-22
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8507290091 B50613 PDR ADOCK 05000346 24 T PDR
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2 1 APPEARANCES:
\' 2 3 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 4 Otfice of the Executive Legal Diractor 5 Washington, D.C. 20555 6 By Mr. Stevo Burns, 7
3 On behalf of the Commission.
9 10 11 MEMBERS OF THE TEAM:
12 Wayne Lanning
('; 13 Larry Bell 14 J. T. Beard 15 Ercie Rossi 16 l 'i la ALSO PRESENT:
19 Louis Simon 20 21 - - - - -
22 23
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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l 3 1 Thursday Morning session ,
2 June 13, 1995 t
'3 9:10 o' clock a.m.
4 - - - - -
'S MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go on the record v.
I 6 now.
- 7 This is going to be a discussion with i~
8 Bhian Young. And Brian, why don' t you start out by k-
'9 telling us what your position is in the company.
i j' 10' MR. YOUNG: My position in the company is i
. 11 reactor-._ operator on Ted Lehman's' shift.
12 MR. BURNS: Brian, did you asK somebody 4
'( ) 13 to accompany you today during'this interview?
- 14 .MR. YOUNG
- Yes, I did. !
~
I 15 MR. BURNS: Would you tell us who that is?
~
16 MR. YOUNG: : Louis Simon. He's an 17 operation supervisor.
18 MR. ROSSI:- Maybe we ought to go'around
.19 -the. room and make it clear who ism nere for the
- 20 ' record. Brian Young, of course, is here. Louis 21- . Simon.is. hare.- .I'm'Ernie'Rossi. .
4
{ 22 EMR. BEARD: TJ . T. Beard.
23 .MR. BELL: Larry-Bell.
24 MR. BURNS: Steve Burns.
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9 4
[ l MR. LANNING: And Wayne Lanning.
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Brian, you. indicated
~
3- you are a reactor operator on Ted Lehman's shift?
, 4 MR.' YOUNG: Tha t's correct.
l 5 -MR. BELL: Mr. Young, yesterday I got the 6 impression.there are two reactor operators for cach 7 shift,-one operator takes' care of the reactor and '
8 its associated auxiliaries, the other operator 9 takes care of the secondary plant?-
10 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
l 11 MR. BELL: Which_of those
. 12 responsibilities do you hold on Mr.-Lehman's shitt?
() 13 MR. . YOUNG:
Presently I hold the 14 secondary side.
- 15 MR. BELL
- You.are1the secondary side 16 ope ra tor?
)
17: MR. YOUNG: Yes. Which 's-feedwater.
i 4
18 MR. BELL: Fino, sir.
I 19 MR. BEARD: Do you operate on-that system 20 pretty much every snift'orEdoes it_ rotate bet'een w 21 you and the other operators?
i 22 MR. YOUNG: Rignt now.it's just-primarily 1
- z 23 myself on.the secondary side.
j : ; -24 MR. BEARD: . Have you opera ted as the ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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reactor' side operator?
-1
[- 2 MR. YOUNG: Yes, I nava. l i
i 3 MR. BEARD: li ow long has it been since
-.4 roughly the last time you did that?
- 5' ~MR. YOUNG: Frobably'two. months. ,
I '6 MR.- BEARD: Two months, okay. Thank you.
-7 MR. YOUNG: We do share the 8 responsibilities, though, of the antire plant.
9 MR. BEARD: I. understand that. I-was
- 10 -just trying to understand just more of the way your i - .
11 shift operates, that's all.
. 12 MR. LANNING: - Why don't you go ahead and
(])- 13 tell us how long you ha'v e ' b a e n with t h'o _ c o m p a n y and 14 that sort of information?
15 MR. YOUNG: I ha ve ' been-1 with the company 16 for five years. B ee n --a reactor operator f o r- a" 17 _little over two years.
,- 18 MR. ROSSI: Okay. You came on shift at-i ~19 ' what' time on June 9th?
. 20 MR. YOUNG: Midnight.. .
21 MR.. ROSSI: At midnight. What we have 4
22 - done with the other-people:that'we have--interviewed J
- 23 .isljust ask them to'tell us what they observed
<24 between the. time theyfcame on shift and the time,of
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'l the event. And why don't you do that first.
. 2 MR. BEARD: We are trying to get a 3 background of what the initial conditions ot the 4 plant were as you camo on the shift, like equipment
'5 that was out of service, equipment tha t was working
^
6 normally. Just the gonaral plant status. ,
, 7 MR. YOUNG: General plant - sta tus, we were f
8 at 90 percent power, everything was pretty much 9 normal. I can't remember any outstanding equipment-10 that we had inoperable at that time.
I -11 There was no testing going on at that 12 time either, no particular testing being done by l
() 13 any other shift.
14 MR. BEARD: Was there.any< equipment that 15 was in some special ca tegory where it was aligned.
16 in an unusual way for-some reason?
~
17 MR. YOUNG: No. 2 main'feedpump was in manual at'that time, No. 1 being in-auto.
18 19 MR.. BEARD: Okay. Tnis isJa; matter of 20 clarification.- I think you covered [it, _but.Ifwould e 21 like-to just.be sure. -Do you remember whether or-22 not tne high pressure safety. injection systems were 23 operable and available at the time youlcame'on 24 ~ shift?
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1- MR. YOUNG: Yes, they were.
I -
2 MR. BEARD: So.they were totally !
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I functional as far as you remember?
3 1 4 MR. YOUNG:- Yes.
4 -5 MR.-BEARD: 'Okay.
- i. 6 MR. BELL: Do you people perform an l
]
7 emergency core cooling alignment check every shift?
8 MR. YOUNG: Okay. No, we don't. I do s
- i. 9 personally review the entire boards, making sure 4
' 10 .all the valves:are in tne proper position.
11 MR .' . ROSS I :
Both primary and secondary -1
- f. .
12 parts of the plant?' j l () ~ 13 MR. YOUNG: -Yes. j 14 MR. BELL: So you wouldLlook at . things '
l 15 like HPI pump hand switches to make sure they are 1
16 not in pull'to lock and you w o'u l d maxe sure the
- 3
, 18 MR. YOUNG: .Yes.
i
. 19. MR. BELL: And you_did that this night i
-20 also? ;
- h. 21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
~
22 MR. BELL: Okay, sir.
. 23 MR.-ROSSI: Is there anything else you fg 24. can.ramember between'/the time.youfcame on shift and L._/ >
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'- 2 unusual?
3 MR. YOUNG: Other than the unusual shift 4 STs.
6 MR. YOUNG: Daily ins trumen t checxs.
'7 MR. BEARD: Instrument checks, okay.
3 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don' t we go to the 9 event thon. Can you tell us what you remember 10 about tne start of the event and what you remember 11 of the sequence of events.
12 MR. BEARD: When you start, Brian, could g
q s) 13 you start with where you were physically in the 14 control room at the time sometning unusual -- at 15 tne onset of whatever it was. I mean, just your 16 physical location.
17 MR. YOUNG: At that time, I was in a 18 kitchen just right off the control room at that 19 time. The other operator was in the control room.
20 I had stepped out to get something to est.
21 And at that time I heard a winding down 22 noise of a turbine or pump of soma sort, and I 23 assumed that it was a main feedpump. I had heard
- 24 that noise before. And so I ran out in the control v
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-1 : room'at the same time the other operator called me r ; %
i ' 2 out.
4 3 MR. BEARD: So it was the winding down 1
4 noise that brought you to.more immediate attention i 5 of the plant conditions as contrasted, say, an 6 unseater sounding?
I 7 MR. YOUNG: Pardon?
8 MR. BEARD: As contrasted -- in'other 9' words, the thing that got your attention from what 1-j 10 I haar you saying-is the other operator'didn't call 11 you and say, ' Hey, Brian, get in here, we have got i-12 something, you didn' t have an indication, an i
() 13 enunciator sounded 'tha t ' called 'your attention to it.
14 The thing that called your attention.was a' winding 15 down sound of something.
- 16 MR. YOUNG:. Yes.
17 MR.'ROSSI: Okay. .So youfwent into the 18 control area. And why don't you just-proceed from 19 .there and tell us what'you remember ~doing and i 20 seeing. If you remember enunciators'that may nave 21 come on or been on, then tell us that too from what i
22 you remember.
l
[ 23 MR. YOUNG: The other ~ RO was standing on 7s 24 the primary side. I had seen tha t he already.had
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- l. hit the spray valve. I did look up and see the
(~"1 2 main feedpump run back in progress alarm.
f 3 I went over -- proceeded over to the No.
4 2 main feedpump and started opening that pump up in 5 order to increase feedwater flow out of that pump.
6 MR. BEARD: Pumping it up means speeding 4 7 up the turbine?
8 MR. YOUNG: Yes. We have a pistol grip.
3 J
9 -MR. BELL: There are two ways to put'No.
10 2' main feedpump in wha t we would consider manual.
-11 One - of them is to place the ICS hand automatic 12 sta tion f or that feedpump in manual, 'a n d t h e -- o t h e r
. 1
() 13 one is to have the turbine contro'l in manual.
~
Now, 14 which one of those stations were --
15 MR. YOUNG: Turbine control s ta tion. It-16 was already in that mode.
17 MR. BELL:- The teedwater pumps controllor 18 from the ICS was in automatic?
19 MR. YOUNG: HN o . It was not.
'20 MR. BELL: It'was in_ manual also? _
l 21 MR. YOUNG: Correct. .No.-1 wasLin auto.
1
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22 11R . ROSSI: Okay ~-
23 MR.' BEARD: I'm a bit confused. Larry, ,
'24 maybe you can help me. On_this quostion you just ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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11 1 raised, are you saying.thatlboth the pump and i ts
)~ 2 associated turbine'were~in manual, neither one was l'
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'3 under control of I C S-- t o r No. 2, and I guess the 4 .
4 normal' control tonflow . part would be on.the 5 ' discharge valve?
'6 MR. BSLL: Your ICS feedwater-demand .
i 7 signal was controlling the both main facd reg 8 valveu plus the speed of No. 1 main feedpump. -Is 9 that:not correct? ,
10: MR. YOUNG: That-is correct.
11- M R . 'B E A R D': Okay. But both of those' 12 control functions, the reg-valve and the speed for I
t
() 13 t h'i s _ p u m p , were in manual?
I - 14 MR. YOUNG:. N o .- .That is not' correct.
15 MR. BEARD: I'm'trying to.~ understand what 1 ~
16 really was happening here?
17 MR. YOUNG: The rog valves are totally 18 separate from theifeedwater pump control' logic. '
l 19 Both zpumps discha rge. into a common'neader, and they 20 go through the'feedwater heaters and t h e n 't o '.t h e i
21 feedwater reg valves; oxay? It was the pumps ~ that ,
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' 22 we had, No. l'being in auto and No. 2 being'in hand 23- - at mat'ched speeds.
- 24 MR. BEARD: So the valve-you had manual O -ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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3 MR. YOUNG: No. Just the speed.
4 MR. BEARD: Just the speed.
. 5 MR. YOUNG: Just the speed of the pamp to 6 increase discharge capacity.
7 MR. BEARD: Okay. And the valve then, 8 the foedwater reg valvo was under wha t Kind of- ,
1 9 control?
12 and MR. BELL: Maybe I can c.'ea r that up >
~
{) 13 . correct me if I'm wrong, please. Tnere are six 14 manual automatic stations for the feedwater section 15 of'the ICS Loop A and Loop' B feedwater^ flow demands,
- 16. and those stations were automatic and those og 17 stations compare Faedwater' demand.with flow and
_18' send signals'to No. 2 main fee'dpump.which has i ts i 19 own nand automatic s ta tion No. 2 startup-valvo, 20 wnien was in automatic, .and No. 2 mainffeed. reg.
4 21 valve, which was also in automatic.
22 On the No. 1 loop side.we woul'd have Loop i-i 23 A or-Loop No. 1 feedwater demand _in automatic, the
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'2 4 ~ startup. valve for.tha A sido in automatic, the main
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l w 1 2 1-feedwater. pump turbine in automatic; is that
!- 3 correct?
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4 MR. YOUNG: That would ---that is correct.
T 5 MR. BELL: Okay.
'6 MR. BEARDi I don't mean to'bulabor this, 1
F 7 I just got confused myself and I thought wo better 8 get it clarified before we go-further.- Thank-you.
9 MR. YOUNG: No'problom.
I 10 MR. BELL: So,now we are setting with a i 11 N o. ~1 f eedwa te r pump turbine winding down, tha t's i 12 No. 1 feedwater pump turbine, and you are in the -
. i process of increasing No. 2 teedwater pump turbine j
(]) 13 14 speed?
-i 15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
i 16 .MR. BELL:. That teedwa ter pumpLdrivos' l 17 both the booster'feedpump and the main teedpump?
~
b '18 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Turbines directly- ,
- 19
' connected to both.
l 20 MR. BEARD: Okay.
21' MR. ROSSI: Why don't you just. proceed- 7
~
22 then with what happened next,-you know,'from your s
23 - observations a nd _ wha t ' a c tions' .you took?
, s 24 MR. YOUNG:. .Woll, at that time, the i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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I levels were coming down from the steam generators.
2 The reactor was running back. I heard the other l- -3 operator 1saying that the reactor.'was running back ;
4 at'a g 'o o d rate.
i 'S At that time, I noticed tha t the delta Ps 6' were at zero and still proceeding up with the 7 pump --
1
'8 MR. BEARD: Which delta P are you '
i
, 9 reforring to? j 1
10 .MR. YOUNG: The delta P across the valves.
i . .
l l 11' MR. BEARD: These are tne reg valves for l
I 12. the feedwateriline?
4
,(]) 13 MR. YOUNG: The feedwater valves.
i 15 now?
i 16 MR. YOUNG: Yes, for both lines.
i l- 17 MR. YOUNG: And at that' time I heard the ii
- i. 18 turbine trip or, excuse-me, the-reactor trip. And 19 we proceeded to carry out-our.immediate actions. "
20 We carried them out, continued bumping up the pump t
'. ;21 trying-to maintain a proper'di'senarge header -- +
- 22 excuse me, proper discharge nead~on the pump to 4 .
f 123 insure flow, f eedwa ter flow to the' steam generators.
12 4 MR. BELL: One question, pleaso?- ,
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15 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
2 MR. JELL: It this delta P across the 3 valve is zero, does that maan to you that steam 4 generator pressures and feed header pressures are 5 equal?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
7 MR. BELL: Isn't it possible that 8 teodwater pressura can be slightly lower than steam 9 genarator pressure in this case? Those valves are 10 wide open, we are trying to put a lot of flow 11 through there, but won't we get a large prosaure 12 drop across those valves or get some prassure drop 13 across tnose valves so we can actually have a caso 14 where feedwater pressure is lower than steam 15 generator pressure? Is that possible?
16 MR. YOUNG: I don't think at that time 17 that's physically possible and still maintain a 18 flow.
19 MR. BELL: You did indicate flow to both 20 steam generators at this time?
21 MR. YOUNG: I had flow on the main 22 feedpump at that time. I saw tne valves were open.
l 23 I had almost seven and a half million pounds per 73 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> flow on that one pump.
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16 1 MR. ROSSI: That's No. 2 pump?
g
'- 2 MR. YOUNG: Before --
yes. Before it 3 tripped -- or excuse me, bafore the reactor tripped.
4 MR. BELL: The reason I ask that question, 5 there is an SFRCS actuation under steam g e ne ra to r 6 pressure grea ter than feed pressure by 177 pounds?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. BELL: But in your opinion, thore is 9 not a situation that would cause that actuation at 10 this timo?
11 MR. YOUNG: No, thera was not.
'12 MR. BELL: All right, sir.
[^)
w, 13 MR. BEARD: Let me ask a more direct 14 question. When you say somathing, Brian, that says 15 DP across the reg valva is zero --
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: --
what's the significance of 18 the connotation of that being zero?
19 MR. YOUNG: That basically that one side 20 is equal to tne othar.
21 MR. BEARD: Okay. It doesn't -- I mean, 22 you didn't intend it to convey with that anything 23 with regard to what the flow was?
, 24 MR. YOUNG: That's correct.
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l 1 MR. BEARD: It was just the pressures l 1 N 2 were' balanced?
3 MR. YOUNG: That is correct. Tns way the i
I
! 4 logic works for ICS to control is tnat it maintains 5 44 pounds delta P across the reg valves and that 6 would indicato'that valves had some sort of control i
4 7 over your, flow in level. That would ba an 8 indication to me that I was being successful. ,
i l
9 MR. BEARD: If you nad soma DP i 10 approximating 40 pounds? ,
[
l 11 MR. YOUNG: Yes. 'Well, just some DP.
i q
12 MR. BEARD: Yeah, all right. But you 4
. .()
13 were saying that you had zero DP?
14 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
i 15 MR.. BEARD: .Okay.
16 MR. YOUNG: Which told me at that time 4 17 that I was lacxing in feedwater flow.
18 MR. BEARD: You needed to catch up?
i l
19 MR. YOUNG:' Yes.
{
- 20 MR. LANNING: Were you able to. determine r 21 at this time that the.No. 1 main feedwater pump had '
22 . tripped?
i- 23 MR. YOUNG: Yes.- I did see the red light
}
l 24 trip lignt..
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1 MR. LANNING: Can you tell me what that
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2 light tells you? !
,_ s 3 MR. YOUNG: That all stop valves are i
4 closed.
t Are you able to datormine
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f 5 MR. LANNING:
j j 6 why they were closed? ;
I i
. 7 MR. YOUNG: No.
t l' 8 MR. LANNING: You'just have a signal that [
i j 9 tells you that, what is it, the steam emission i
, '10 valves are closed to the: turbine?
i
+
. lil MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 MR. LANNING: 'Okay.
() 13- MR. BEARD: You said you heard the l 14 reactor trip. I don't think you meant to. imply --
15 the reactor doesn't m a'k e noise when it trips,'does l' 16 'it? l 17 MR. YOUNG: That's correct. It was in i
l 18 conjunction with the turbine tripping. ;
4 i:
19 MR. BEARD: I think what you were saying, ,
l 20 you-heard an enunciator or.s'omething-indicative - of
-21
~
the reactor trip? ,
4 22 MR. YOUNG: .No. .The turbine-tripping.and i
i l 23 the~ reactor tripping almost~ simultaneously-is what '
4 . .
! 24 I haard,'and it was the control valvos on the ACE FEDERAL. REPORTERS INC. ,
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. f) k' 2 MR. BEARD: On the reactor trip, do you 3 remember wnat condition caused tne trip?
4 MR. YOUNG: Not at that particular moment.
5 It was not until later that I learned.
6 MR. BEARD: Probably if you are oporating 7 on the secondary side, it's not very important to 8 you.
9 MR. YOUNG: It would bo important to me 10 what causOd the trip. But not at that time could I 11 determine it.
12 MR. BEARD: Fine.
() 13 MR. BELL: Brian, at this timo did you 14 near the main steam safety valves lift?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
4 16 MR. BELL: Did you anortly after the trip,
. 17 did you hear those valves rescat? Did the noise 18 from the safety valves stop?
19 MR. YOUNG: It was not until like one or 20 two minutes they were blowing that they reseated 21 and then reopened.
22 MR. ROSSI: They reseated and reopened?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yos, some of them.
gs 24 MR. ROSSI: Okay. And is that something
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l' that you would have expected to happen for them to 2 reopen also?
'; 3 MR. YOUNG: Yes. They basically had l
, 4 control of the header.
i 5 MR. BEARD: Okay. . The. lifting of the 6 safeties is pretty much normal for the plant at 4
7 that time. That is not an unexpected event. .
8 MR. YOUNG: No.
9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. . Why' don't'you proceed 10 then with your-description.
11 MR. YOUNG: Okay. I was trying to
- _ 12 ~ ma'intain adequate discharge pressure on the 13 . remaining' main feedpump. ~ Everything was going as
-( ) -
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14 expected for the post-trip responses, steam l
- 15 generator levels were boiling down, I was watching i 16 .tha t. Tney should have went'down to,the low level L
i .
17 limits. . Startup valves.were starting to.open.
I 18 Then I noticed that my.No.'2 main teedpump was
'19 -decreasing in ' speed.
20 MR. BEARD: No. 2 was decreasing?
- ~
21L MR. YOUNG: Yes. .My remaining one.
22 MR. BEARD: Do you have any idea why that 23' .wa s happening?
24- MR. IOUNG:' At that time, I--figured'that O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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!!1 1 I had no steam pressure, for some reason I lost it. !
3-)
/ 2 MR. BEARD: Do you remember -- I guess I t
3 .have to be careful in saying that. There is a 4 'ditteronce betwean wnat was going through your mind 5 at the time you were going through the event and 6 what'you may have become aware of subsequently.
7 MR. YOUNG: No. At that time --
8 MR. BEARD: What I'm trying to ask in s9 this question, at the time you were going through 10 it, what was your thinking?
11 MR. YOUNG: My thinking was that my main 12 feedpump was going away. There is some reason why; ,
13 i
(]) I lost it. And the most apparant reason was that I 14 had lost pressure because I still had a green light i
, 15 that it was roset.
16 MR. BEARD: A green light that what was 1
17 reset?
f 18 MR. YOUNG: That the turbine was reset-as i
19 well as the stop' valves being open..
- 20 MR. BEARD
- The turbine being the feed i 21 pumps turbine?.
'22 MR. YOUNG: Right.-
s 23 MR. BEARD: Did you have any-idea or did
- 24 you take time to pursue why you had this. apparent ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS .INC.
- (202)L347-3700 l
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! 1 loss of steam?
m4
'- ' 2' MR. YOUNG: Yes, I did.
q 3 MR. BEARD: What did you come up with?
'- '4 MR. YOUNG: MSIVs wero closed.
- 5 MR. BEARD: Okay.
6- MR. ROSSI: Let me go back just one 7 minute to something you said. The startup feed
- 8 valves, you observed both of them to start to open; l 9' -is that correct?
10' MR. YOUNG: Yes.
b 11 MR. BELL: I want<some clarification on f
l 12 that point. I was under the impression that as I-l ;(]) 13 . escalated' power,-I r e a c h e d .-'a point.wnere the 14 startup. feed reg. valves'would send a: signal to.open
. -15 .the main feed block _ valve, and then.I would control +
l ,
16 -feedwater flow-with the' main' feed block valve..
I 17 MR. YOl1G: Tnat is-correct.
!- 18 MR. BELL: However,. the startup feed reg ,
19 valves' modulate to a, hundred. percent open, don' t a
'20 they,-as I continue.my power e s ca'la t io n ?
21 MR. YOUNG: I'm sorry,,I'm not catching 4
122 where you are --
- f. 23 MR. BEARD: You are' talking'on'a' plant
- 4 24 ls ta r tup now.-
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23 1 MR. BELL: Let's start at zero percent l )
2 power. Let's start before we even take the reactor 3 critical. Let's say the feedwater valves are 4 moderating to hold me on low level limits. As I 5 escalate power, thosa valves have to open further 6 to maintain steam generator on low level limits.
7 As I take the reactor critical, roll the 8 feedpump, place that in service, that valve 9 continues to open to hold me on low level limits 10 until it reaches about 80 parcent. Is that'not 11 correct?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
() 13 MR. BELL: And than at tne 80 percent 14 position, that startup feed reg valve sends a 15 signal to open the main food block valve and now 16 I'm controlling feedwater flow with two valves, the 17 startup valve and the main feed reg valve?
18 MR. YOUNG: Correct.
19 MR. BELL: And I would remain in that 20 condition all the way up to 100 parcent power, 21 wouldn't I? What sends the signal to start that 22 startup valve?
23 .MR. YOUNG: The startup valve or --
-s 24 MR. BELL: The startup-valve.
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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t 24 1 MR. YOUNG: There is an RPR circuit.
2 MR. BELL: That's right. That rapid
'. 3 ' feedwater reduction shuts that on this plant. ,
42 ,,
MR. BEARD: Tha t's : unique to this plant SL as far as you'know? ~
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
27- MR. ROSSI: So tne rapid ~feedwater:
8 . reduction signal would have closed-the startup foed
'9 v a l v e, and la ter- you observed both of them to open 10 for both steam generators, which is,tne normal 4
11 thing that should have, happened?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
13 'M R . BELL: But.that.startupfteed regL
{f 14 valve is only closed to a' target position, rignt?--
5 15 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Of 'approximately 15 ,
P . .
16' . percent open.
'17 MR. BELL: _It's coming:back;to.me.' slowly.
18 MR. BEARD: I would like tojgo back to
- 19 the 'pa r t'. where your No. 2'feedpump was; winding down.-
20 -You surmised'you w e r e - l e f '. n g steam. You.fi'nd out
. '21. the -. MS IV s 1 we re closa" I-22 MR. YOUNG. .Y=o.-
, -23 MR.JBBARD: 'At1that time didjyou choose -
1 24 to ' pursue whyfthe MSIVaiwere' closed?
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. 25 1 MR. YOUNG: No.,
/3 sd 2 MR. BEARD: You just stopped right there 3 'in terms of you found'out why the pump was coasting E 4 -down,.now-you went on toido otnar things?
5- MR. YOUNG: .Well, I tried to-determine ,
6' why the MSIVs were closed by looking up to sac-if 7 . there was an SFRCS actuation, which there was none.
8 MR. BEARD: So you did pursue the cause 19 of the MSIV_-closure to.some extent?_
10 -MR. YOUNG: Yes, the most apparent one.
11 MR. BEARD: Right. What'was-your feeling
-12 tnen about the closure of the MSIVs in 'the context
. 13 ' of is this normal'or a complication on the event-'or 14 how did you fool about tha t?
-15 MR. YOUNG: It was not normal.
- 16' MR. ROSSI: Had it~ occurred at'this plant 17 - before during reactor-trips? I mean,~was it 2
18 - something: that rarely occurred, never occurred or i
19 - occurred occasionally at the ' plant?
20 MR.' YOUNG: It. happened one other time 1:
2 21 that I know of for s u r e ^..
22 MR. ROSSI: It happened one other timo -
23 that/you-know o f ?'.
24 MR.-YbONG: Yes.
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4 26
'l MR. ROSSI: .With the SFRCS not actuating A
kJ 2 them in'that' case also?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: Do you remember roughly the 5 time frame of'when this. previous I'll call 1t
.6 spurious closure occurred? I mean, are you talking 7 a'few weeks ago or a few years ago or --
8 MR.' YOUNG:
- No. I_do not remember exactly 9 which trip it was.
- 10 MR. BEARD: I was just;trying to get- a
- 11 feel whether it was recent-or a long time ago?
12 MR. YOUNG: I believe it was recent, but O
~
1's ' co=1a a== v tor re-14~ MR. BEARD: I don't intend to pin ^you 3
l'5 down. I'm just trying to: understand tne context, 16 tha t's all..
- 17 So I guess we are at the point where you 18 -are: losing No. 2 main. feed, you found out the
-19 reason foruit:1 the MSIVs were closod. And I guess 20l :where do we go~from there?
21 "
MR. YOUNG: Okay. At this time I saw i
~
22 ~that my steam generator levels ware still boiling- ,
23 down. 'ILheard the main steam safeties lifting, I
+
j j, 24 asked-permission to trip SFRCS on the lower limits
' ()
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r 27 4~ 1 from the shift supervisor.
2 MR. BEARD: Why would you want to do that?
3 MR. YOUNG: Maintain as much inventory of r.
~4 my. steam generators as possible. I would boil it 5 down to the _ SFRCS' trip.- ;
6 MR. BEARD: All right. So are you saying --
7 'well, let me back up and ask it this way. I guess 8 lI needLto-ask a' sequence of two or three_ questions '
9 to1get..it in perspective.
- l l
10 Suppose you-had done nothing, okay, what j
11 would the automatic features ot;tne' plant nad led .
1 j 12 .you to in'this situation?
I
- 13 MR.' YOUNG: Trip me-on low lovel limits.
])
14 MR.-ROSSI: On low level. limits? ,
15 MR. YOUNG: Excuse me.- On low level.-
16 MR. BEARD: Steam generator low level?
17 MR. YOUNG:- Yes.
i 18 _MR. BEARD: And that would'Ecause'an -
i=
'- 19 -actuation of --
- ~
20 MR., YOUNG: - What I was intending to, of a
21 SPRCS.
i .-
So if-;you had done nothing, 22 MR. . BEARD: .
23 the water would boil off.a little further, you get.
24 to-a' low le vel se t poi r.t , and you'get an automatic
- ..O' ACE FEDERAL. REPORTERS: INC.
(202) 347-3700 .
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28 1 actuation that would do certain things.
"' 2 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
3 MR. BEARD: And if I understand you, what 4 _you are saying is if tnat's inevitable to conserve 5 inventory, go ahead and actuate it manually. Is 6 that what you are thinking?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR._ ROSSI: Why don't you go ahead then.
~9 You asked permission to trip the SFRCS on low level.
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Go ahead.
12 MR. YOUNG: My shitt supervisor gave me e
(x) w 13 permission, I went around and tripped them on low 14 level limits or, excuse me, low level.
15 MR. BEARD: Okay. To do tnis physically, 16 'what kind of activities -- are you talking about
_17 grabbing a pistol switen?
18 MR. YOUNG: You have to-run around the 19 back of your feedwater station and trip it. There 20 is a suries --
21 MR. BEARD: Physically is it turning a 22 pistol-type switch?
23 MR. YOUNG: Two trip buttons.
24 MR. BEARD: Two push
- buttons.
7 Q,)
A C E' FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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29 1 MR. ROSSI: A total of two buttons you p
'd 2 pushed?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. ROSSI: You tripped SFRCS I think you 5 said?
6 MR. YOUNG: On low level.
7 MR. ROSSI: On low lovel. By pushing two 8 buttons?
9 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
10 MR. BEARD: As far as you know, your 11 anticipatory actions on level actuation, low steam 12 generator level actuation was indeed before any I') 13 automatic actuations had occurred?
C/
14 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
15 MR. BEARD: Either partial or total?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: As far as you know, I mean?
18 MR. YOUNG: As far as I know. I did not 19 have any alarms.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay.
21 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
22 MR. BEARD: I guass then we go --
you had 23 to leave your immediate location, go around from fs 24 the main console to the vertical board to do that,
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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1 30
, . . ~1 and I guess you did w h'a t , you returned back to your 2;
c' -
-2 -normal -- to where you had been?
2 3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: Oxay. Then what happens?
5 MR . : YOUNG: 'I went over'to the aux feed 6- station.
4 7 MR. BELL: Are you able to see steam j 8 generator-levels trom__this SFRCS manual initiation 9 pansl?
10 MR. YOUNG: No, I'm not. s
- 11 MR. BELL: So you-have to manually 12 : in'i t ia t e the system on a back pa ne 1~, and then come
() 13 around-to the desk section of the panel ~to' observe.
14 that this-system.is actuated properly and'is filling-r
! 15 the steam generators?
- 16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. LANNING: What indication:do you have
~
-18 on-the front panel that you.have actuated-or the 19 SFRCS1has a ctua ted?
F 20 MR.: YOUNG: I have they were commonly 21 referred to as segrega tion valves wnich line up the l 22 aux.' feed-pumps to either one selected steam t-
- 23 . generator or to-. separate steam generators. Those i ., 24 position in'dications on those valves.
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31 1 MR. LANNING: So you have to physically
' 'T k> 2 look at the valva alignments for the aux feadwater 3 system?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
5 MR. LANNING: Are there any enuncia tor 6 lights on any of the panels tha t .says you have got 7 a full trip of tno SFRCS?
8 MR. YOUNG:- Yes, there is. There is an 9 enunciator panel for that and then an snunciator 10 alarm that says SFRCS, full actuation.
11 MR. BEARD: Are you finished, Wayne?
12 MR. LANNING: Do you recall whether or
() 13 not you looked to sae if that enunciator light was 14 lit?
15 MR. YOUNG: No, not at that time.
16 MR. LANNING: This is the same light that 17 you would have looked at in the beginning to see if 18 you had an SFRCS actuation?
19 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
20 MR. LANNING: Is that correct?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. LANNING: Okay.
23 MR. ROSSI: Okay, now.
24 MR. BEARD: I want to follow up on
(-
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 i
, . . ._. .. _ . . - - . ~ - - . . . . . - .
4 32 1
1 Wayne's thought. The way that you would tell that
' J- 2 . your actuation had.been successful would be to look 3 at the feedwater valves in terms of was each 4 - auxiliary feedwater' pump lined up to its as socia te d l 5 ' generator.or some criss-cross fashion to the 6 opposite steam generator? ,
1 7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. BEARD: Where are those indications 9 physically located in the control room?
! - 10 MR. YOUNG: Right next to the aux ,
11 foedwater station.
p 12 MR. BEARD: So they would not ba on the j) 13 _ panel wnere you had done the' actuation?
i . .
i 14 MR. YOUNG: Tha t's correct. 4 j 15 MR. BEARD: Is-it your normal custom to ,
!- l 16 use tnose valvo indicators to tell_you that the i
[ 17 actuation was successful or had gone properly or i
13 whatever,.I mean, 'is this a normal thing or is this 4 .
- '19 - something ~ unique, just one night? That's'all I'm 20 trying to .
- unde rs tand?
21- MR. YOUNG: It's a good determination,
~2 2 method of determination.that you do have valves I
23 ; physically lined _up. .
- - 24 MR. BEARD: Okay. You had used-this i
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33 1 before, I ta ke it?-
(^D 2 MR. YOUNG: No. This was my first SFRCS 3' actuation.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay. ll a d you beon trained, 5 nad your training included the information, this 6 was a good way to tell if the aux feedwater was 7 running properly?
8 MR. YOUNG: This was one ot the methods 9 of dotermining whether aux teadwater was lined up 10 properly.
11 MR. BEARD: Okay.
12 MR. YOUNG: As well as watching the pumps.
13 MR. BEARD: Your reason for doing this,
[a) 14 I'm just trying to understand, was not because ot 15 prior experience with other actuations, more as I 16 tnink you are explaining it to us, this was one of 17 the ways you could tell it based on your training?
18 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay.
20 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Let me ask a question.
21 I thought I heard you say that this was the first 22 time you manually initiated SFRCS?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Manually as well as 24 being on the foodwater side of the plant or t7
,)
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
34 1 secondary side of the plant during an SFRCS n
f i
\> 2 actuation.
3 MR. ROSSI: Oh, okay. It was the first 4 time you had baan on tne secondary side of tne 5 plant during an SFRCS actuation, and the first timo o you nad personally manually actuatad the SFRCS.
7 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
O MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go back to --
9 why don't we let him go through at least a part of 10 this sequence starting from when he went to tne 11 panel and actuated the SFRCS without any 12 interruptions, just so we can got a little bit 13 further.
k'~JT 14 MR. BELL: hay I get one quick quastion 15 cleared up?
16 MR. ROSSI: Go ahead.
17 MR. BELL: Are you able to see a u xilia ry 18 feedwater flow indications from the back panel or 19 do you again have to return to the desk section to 20 observe auxiliary feedwater flows?
21 MR. YOUNG: You have to return to tns 22 dasx section to do it.
23 MR. BELL: After you looked at those 73 24 segregation valva lights, did you tnen glanca at ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 l
< 35 4
1- .the auxiliary feudwater flow matars?
-I )- 2 MR. YOUNG: Sogregation Vtivas had not 3 started to move at that time.
i 4 MR. BELL: .But those under a low level 4
i -5 actuation wouldn't reposition anyhow, would they?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes, tney would. They were 4
7 all four normally closed.
28 MR. BELL: Did you glance at the 9- ' auxiliary feodwater flow indication at this time?
I 10 MR. YOUNG: No, I was glancing at the
]
l j 11 turbine speed at this time.
l 12 MR.-BELL: Okay, sir. Thank.you, Dr.
n 13 Rossi.
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why' don' t .you -- lut's i
j 15 go back to you went back and you, manually. actuated i
16 tha SFRCS and you said on. low level?
f 17 .MR. YOUNG: Yes.
i 18 'MR. ROSSI: Why don't you proceed from i
19 there as to what'you did, even'though it may be a l
20 repeat sin,ce we had so many interruptions.
1-I 21 '
MR. YOUNG: At this timo I looxed at the ,
.22 's eg r e g a tio n valvss; I saw no motion at that time.
23 '-I.would expect some shortly.
1 l- .24 "I started to look -- well, I went to look l
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36 1- at the turbine speed of b'o t h aux feed pumps which
- 2 are side'by sida. I. watched No. 1 pump como up to 3 speed, ~ cycle down about a thousand rpm, and proceed ;
t
.And I looked up 4 upKin' speed and die off, to say.
! '5 and saw Aux Feedwater Pump 1 trip.
i- .6 -At that same moment, No. 2 light was l -
7 coming on, enunciator-light, and then I looked down v
- ' 8 at the No. 2' Aux Feedwater Pump and it was
? '
- 9. approximately fiftcen hundred-rpm and decreasing.
i 10 Thun-at that.timo, tne'shitt supervisor l 11 said that'the segregation valves were wrong, tney 1
- 12 were not lining 1up right. I lookod at the back i
i 13 panel to see what I had actually if I had
(])
14 actually tripped it on low levels, and saw that the 15 low pressures'were depressed at~that time.
1~ 16 I told him about it. He went around tho i
t 17 panel, turned-the. trips off, retripped it on low i
j 18 level.
1 19 MR. BEARD: I1take it that the 20 segregation of tne cross-over valves in the aux ,
21 feed, tha t's something that is unique to the low
! , 22 pressure actuation, that would be unexpectad for a i
23 low level actuation? Is.that'what you aro saying?
l 24 MR.' YOUNG: Yes. t ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
-(202) 347-3700' 4
a 6
37 1 MR. BELL: You statad you saw No. 1
<^s
- 2 auxiliary teedwater pump turbino speed up, enen the 3 speed droppod, and then the speed returned. Are 4 you describing a normal event thero? Is tnat 5 normal? Does the turbine start up with a governor 6 valve position probably wide open, the speed comes 7 up very rapidly, than the governor gains control of 8 the pump and restores its pump speed, and then 9 escalates pump speed to setpoint. Is that a 10 correct observation on my part or is that abnormal?
11 MR. YOUNG: Okay. The governor is wide 12 open at that time. It demands tha t it be wide open
() 13 because the turbine is not at speed. The 14 indication tnat I saw is characteristic of that 15 startup or, excuse me, aux teed upstarting. And I 16 had boon down in the room, and tha t is not apparent 17 down in the room as far as noise goos.
18 MR. BELL: But it is, the turbine s ta r ts 19 with than governor wide open and then as it 20 escalates-in speed, the governor control tanos over, 21 catches speed, if I may usa that phrase, and then 22 escalates speed up to sotpoint?
23 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
24 MR. BEARD: I guess the bottom lino of ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
'38 1 what I'm hearing you say,: Brian, is that the ,
2 -behavior of the speed is typical of wha t. you expect 3 and didn' t indica te anything abnormal prior to 4 tripping-out?
'5 MR. YOUNG: .That is correct.
6 MR. BEARD: All right.
7 MR. ROSSI: Was that for both pumps now .
.8 or:just the one?.
9 MR. YOUNG: Just the No. 1.
10 MR. ROSSI: Just the No. 1.
1 1" MR. YOUNG: No. 2 has a different 12 ~ governor.
]). 13 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
{.
14 MR. BELL: Did No. 2 auxiliary-teedwater
- 15 pump turbine behave as. expected during the early.
, 16 parts of this transient?
, 17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
1 i
i 18 MR. BELL: Did you maxe-similar
=
4
'19 observations of that pump speed?
l l 20 MR. YOUNG: No. Not - it's not the samo
}
21 characteristics as No. 1.
22 MR. BELL: Thank you..
i
- 23 MR. YOUNG
- No. 2 is a much slower >
l
- 24 responding. But tne indication is not always-what I
() ACE FEDERAL' REPORTERS INC. '
(202)'347-37'00 I
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39 1 is happening.
(D
\~# 2 MR. BELL: Would you elaborate on that a 3 little bit?
4 MR. YOUNG: That is to say that 5 indication may not respond as-tast in the control 6 room as what is actually happening.
7 MR. BELL: Did you actually see Mr.
8 Lehman push those low lovel actuation push buttons?
9 MR. YOUNG: I saw him turn the low 10 pressures oft and I saw him pusn the low level 11 actuations.
12 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you proceed to 13 describe what happened then and wnat you did, what f))
u 14 you observed and what you did?
15 MR. YOUNG: Okay. Wha t I did at enis 16 tima was --
let's see. Okay. I said that we had 17 no aux feed pumps available; tney had tripped. At 18 that time, wo dispatched two operators to the aux 19 teadpump room.
20 MR. ROSSI: What were those? Those are --
21 MR. YOUNG: Equipment operators.
22 MR. ROSSI: Equipment operators. Go 23 anead, i 24 MR. YOUNG: Okay. At tnat time, Steve l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
- (202) 347-3700 4
l 40 1 Foasel was going through the EP. At that time I 2 saw nim sitting back at the table -- or at the desk, 3 I should say. He was also doing verification. He 4 also got up and did a verification at tnat time at 5 aux feedwater 311gnment. He did note that 600 and 6 599 were closed.
7 He then tried to open them. They would 8 not respond. He did say that he was going to go 9 try initial block or, excuse me, I can't think of 10 the correct termination. We never use it. Excuse 11 me.
12 Do you know what the correct termination,
() 13 when you go to initiato block --
14 MR. SIMON: Initial bypass is tha normal 15 terminology.
16 MR. YOUNG: Initial bypass. It was as I 17 saw it an attempt to clear the logic of the 18 inadvertant low pressure trip.
19 MR. BELL: Is this initial block requirad 20 during a plant cool down to prevent unnecassary 21 actuation at the SFRCS system on the low steam 22 generator pressuro?
23 MR. YOUNG: No. We havs separate 24 controls for that.
O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 4
41 1 MR. BEARD: Is this initial block or reset '
f^)%
\- 2 tho Kind of thing you normally do prior to a plant 3 startup to sort of initialize the whole system tor 4 a startup?
5 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
6 MR. BELL: Are thoro any anunciators in 7 the control room that would allow you to Know this 8 initial block nad been parformed?
9 MR. YOUNG: No.
10 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So you saw Stevo 11 Feasel go and initiate the initial bypass, which 12 was an a t temp t to clear the logic of the
() 13 inadvartent low pressure a c t u a t i o.n . I think tha t's 14 what you said.
, 15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you proceed.
17 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Then at that time, Tod 18 Lohman or Steve Passal cama back around, tried to 19 open 608 and 599 again, and they would not.
20 MR. BEARD: Tnose are at the main control 21 board?
22 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
23 MR. BELL: Can you give us an a pproxima te 73 24 time betwoon the pushing of the buttons and when N ,/
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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42 1 Mr. Feasel attempted to initial block the SPRCS A
2 systom?
3 MR. YOUNG: No. Evarything was moving so
, 4 tast, I was trying to watch the accondary side at 5 that time also. My indication, I did have -- did
- 6 notico tnat I still nad main steam sa t o tles lifting.
7 MR. BELL: I imagine things ara protty 8 nectic in the control now. You are sitting with no l
9 teedwater available to eitner steam generator, if I 10 undarstand your s ta tomen t correctly?
11 MR. YOUNG: Tha t's correct.
12 MR. BEr .: How do you feel about tnat?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: How do I teol about it?
14 MR. BELL: Doca that make you nervous or --
15 MR. YOUNG: At that timo I had no timo to 16 fool about it. I was just moving too tast.
17 MR. BELL: So you ware in automatic and 18 you wure trying to got feedwstor back to steam 19 generators any way you could.
20 MR. YOUNG: Yoo.
21 MR. ROSSI: OKay. Why don't you continue.
22 Tuo last thing I nad on the event was S tevo Fossel 23 had tried to open 608 and 599 again, and they would l
24 not opon?
ss ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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43 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
O 2 MR. ROSSI: OKay.
3 MR. YOUNG: At that time I also was 4 taking. stops to place the aux taodwater controls in 5 manual and insure they waro run up on the nign 6 speed stops, the governors. Inis was just in casu 7 tnat the auto essential had driven them down in an 8 attempt to control the overspeed.
9 Than at that time Steve Fossal also said 10 he was going to go out and get us a startup 11 feedpump available. At that time I askad the other 12 RO to go in tno back and roset SP7A and B.
() 13 MR. BEARD: SP7A and B, those are the 14 startup main toedwater rug valves?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yos, that's correct.
16 MR. BEARD: The s ta r tu p teedwater reg 4 17 valves.
i 18 MR. YOUNG: Tha t's correct.
19 MR. BEARD: Is there some reset behind --
20 I'm trying to understand why you have to go behind 21 the panel to reset something.
22 MR. YOUNG: There is reset buttons in the 23 back of the control room to block -- that~ allows us 24 to opon them during an SFRCS.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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44 1 MR. BEARD: I sea. Because of the SFRCS, 2 they would have been closod and you are trying to 3 reopen to establish a path f0r soma feed?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
5 MR. BEARD: I guess that would be related 6 to tha startup pump no said he went out to align 7 for you?
8 MR. YOUNG: Yos, I was preparing a 9 toedwater path at this tima.
10 MR. BEARD: Thoso are the same two valvas 11 you nad observed earlier in tna transient as opening 12 at somo point; is that correct?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. And then they waro 15 closed because of the SPRCS actustion and now you 16 wont to roset them?
4 17 MR. YOUNG: No. The other operator.
- la MR. ROSSI
- The other opurator went to 19 roset them?
20 MR. YOUNG: I was at tho aux toad pump 4
21 governors.
22 MR. LANNING: Whare are valvos number 599 23 and 6007 !
24 MR. YOUNG: They are on the back panel.
ACE FEDERAL RBPORTERS INC.
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45 l 1 MR. LANNING: No. In what system are 2 they in?
3 MR. YOUNG: They are in the SFAS system, 4 on the SFA3 panel, excuse me.
5 MR. LANNING: But what system in the 6 plant are these valves located in?
7 MR. YOUNG: Aux faodwater.
8 MR. LANNING: Aux feedwater systam?
9 MR. YOUNG: Those ara the main isolations.
10 MR. LANNING: Can you explain a little 11 bit more, physically where are they locatad with 12 regards to the pumps?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: With regards to the pumps, 14 they are locatad in a separate building called the 15 aux building.
16 MR. YOUNG: Aro they the discharge of the 17 pumps or auctions out of the pumps?
! 18 MR. YOUNG: They are discharge.
i 19 MR. LANNING: They are normally closed?
20 MR. YOUNG: They are normally open.
21 MR. LANNING: Normally opon?
22 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
23 MR. LANNING: When the sux toodwater 7- 24 system initiated, are these two of tho valvos that
\v ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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46 1 you would normally check to see if you nave got a I 'i 2 flow patn established?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
w 4 MR. LANNING: And wnen the aux taedwater 5 system is startad, do you normally verity that tiow 6 path?
7 MR. YOUNG: That's one at tne things that 3 Stevu Feasal was doing.
3 MR. LANNING: Steve was doing?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. LANNING: Okay. Is that because it 12 was on ene primary sido panel of the control room m.
) 13 or --
14 MR. YOUNG: It was on the back panol.
15 MR. LANNING: It was on tne back panol?
16 MR. YOUNG: Behind the desk panel of the 17 contral room.
13 MR. BEARD: The vertical panal.
19 MR. LANNING: Okay. I guess I'm getting 20 a littlo contused here. I would nave thought you 21 would havo veritied these valves were opunad as 22 part of having _ctuated the aux toedwater system?
23 MR. YOUNG: No. I was still ct t ths 24 turbino or aux toedwater turbine control stations.
I )
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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47 1 MR. LANNING: Okay. So when the aux
(~
\- 2 feodwater system started, initia ted , did you verify 3 the flow psth was established?
4 MR. YOUNG: No. Those are normally opon 5 valves. Those are impossible for me to see from my 6 location on the panel. I didn't take time out to 7 look at them because I assumed they were open at 8 that time. It did not ma tter a t first because ot 9 those turbines tripping.
10 MR. LANNING: Are there othar valvos on 11 the discharge sido of the pump that are normally 12 closed?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: No. Excuse me. Yes, there 14 is. Those are the segregation valves.
15 - MR. LANNING: Okay. In other words, they 16 have to open in order to deliver omorgency 17 tosdwater?
18 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
19 MR. LANNING: Okay. Now, who would check 20 to see if those valvos n2d oponed on initiation of 21 aux feedwater system?
22 MR. YOUNG: I would. They were right 23 next to the aux feodwater control station.
.p r 24 MR. YOUNG: Okay.
L.J ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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48 1 MR. BEARD: When you actuated the aux r~^
tj 2 foedwater, I guess I understand you to say you were 3 worried more about getting the turbine up to speed, 4 controlling the turbine side, and maybe less about 5 the water side of the system?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes. You can always 7 reestablish --
8 MR. BEARD: But do you have nearby you 9 something that indicates, regardless of valve 10 positions, do you have something nearby that 11 indicates whether or not the flow was occurring?
12 MR. YOUNG: There are flow meters right
() 13 next to the speed meters.
14 MR. BEARD: So they were nearby whero you 15 were?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: Did you happen to notice 18 those things?
19 MR. YOUNG: No, not at that time.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay.
21 MR. BELL: Let's see it I got the 22 sequence of events correct. Someone has baen 23 dispatched to reset the feedpump turbines by now, 24 aux foodpump turbinos?
O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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49 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
,n
(
2 MR. BELL: And you are in the process ot 3 running the speed signal up to maximum with the 4 manual control switch for thoso auxiliary teedpump 5 turbinos?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
7 MR. BELL: Now if I latch that turbine, 8 that governor valve is going to be. fully open, and j 9 you would expect when the turbine is rosat that its 10 speed would go to a maximum volume and give you a 11 large amount of tlow into the steam generators?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
() 13 MR. BEARD: Would it be your expectation 14 that as soon as the overapeed trip device was resot, 15 then you would nave atoam flow and hence APW flow?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay.
18 MR. LANNING: What was the reison the 19 pumps tripped? Wore you able to determine that 20 from the control panols?
21 MR. YOUNG: No.
22 MR. LANNING: ll o w would you determino 23 that? How was tnat determinod?
r3 24 MR. YOUNG: Th3 overspoed trip, I could
()
ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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50 1 not determino the reason. I could only determine (O
\J 2 tnat they actually did.
3 MR. LANNING: !! o w do you do that?
4 MR. YOUNG: Enunciator lights.
5 MR. LANNING: It says aux feedwater pump 6 one tripped?
7 MR. YOUNG: Overspeed trip.
'8 MR. LANNING: Overspoed trip, okay. Can 9 you raset that trip from the control room?
10 MR. YOUNG: No.
11 MR. ROSSI: Now, at this point in time, 12 you had aux toadwiter pump No. 1 overspeed trip and
() 13 aux foodwater pump No. 2 overspeed trip by this 14 point?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. ROSSI: So you had both of those 17 enunciators?
13 MR. BEARD: And you had peoplo going in 19 all directions trying to get you some feod?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 Mk. BEARD: Can I taxe you to the next 22 point of what -- who was successful first or how 23 would you know tha t somebody out there trying to 73 24 help you get some food, who got tnere first?
L.)
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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51 1 MR. YOUNG: First thing that would happen
,o
' ') 2 was that AF-599 and 608 wore openad. At that timo 3 I did not know who had been dispa tched. I know 4 somebody was. ?nen what came av2ilablo next was 5 the startup foodpump.
6 MR. BEARD: The startup feedpump, what 7 happened on it?
8 MR. YOUNG: Well, that was basically the 9 next step I was getting to. After the operator I 10 sent back to SP7A and B reset those valves and came 11 around tront, I asned him to reset tne atmospheric 12 vont valves which requires placing them in the hand.
I
([ } 13 1 flipped one into nand.
14 I nad lot go one of the throttic 15 governors. At that time I didn't feel I mot the 16 time requirements for running the governors up to 17 the nigh speed stop. I brought my knee up using it 18 to hold the governor on the other contro11ar to the 19 increased ponition, and flipped the No. 1 side into 20 hand.
21 MR. BEARD: You waru pretty busy thon?
22 MR. YOUNG: Yae, trying to re es ta blis h 23 making sure my turbinos were at the nigh speud
,f 3 24 stops and a flow path available for the startup
(_)
ACE PSDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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52 1 feedpump.
\' 2 MR. BEARD: Oxay. Now, what was your 3 first indication that one of thesa various pumps 4 was either running or was available for start or 5 whatever?
6 MR. YOUNG: Well, my tirst indication was 7 tne call from Steve Feasel. -Ha.had tne startup 8 toedpump available.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay. You had no indication 10 tnat he aux teed pump folks had gotten you flow 11 through any of thosa directions?
12 MR. YOUNG: That is correct. I observed
() 13 while I was standing thore no speed on the 14 indicators.
15 MR. BEARD: Okay. So he called and told 16 you the system was available. And I assume by that 17 you mean the various valves had been repositioned 18 so that the pump was now available for starting 19 purposes?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. BEARD: And that start would normally 22 take place where?-
23 MR. YOUNG: From the control room.
-s 24 MR. BEARD: OKay.
! )
U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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53 1 MR. BELL: Why did you want the I,,
- b/ 2 atmospheric vents roset?
3 MR. YOUNG: Why? It was an operable or 4 opportune tima. The otner RO was at the back panel 5 nearer them, and I dacided at that time rather tnan 6 at another tima wnen no might be needed on the 7 primary sido to have him open them or reset them 8 for my control.
9 MR. BEARD: So it was convaniont.
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. BELL: Now, when those valves reset 12 and you shifted to ICS -- do they have an ICS
,~~.
(j 13 station?
14 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
15 MR. BELL: And wnen you shifted that ICS 16 station to hand, would you not have a demand signal 17 there to call for tnose valves to be open?
18 MR. YOUNG: As long as I had the manual 19 rheostat, basically is what it is, valve to zero, 20 there would be no demand once I tlipped them into 21 hand.
22 MR. BELL: And you dialed this rneostat 23 to zero before you flipped them to hand?
g-- 24 MR. YOUNG: 'No. It's standard to leavo
()
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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54 1 them that way.
o 2 MR. BELL: So the valves did come ' pa n .
3 when the SFRCS s i g n .n l was rasat?
4 MR. YOUNG: No. 2, I was successful 5 before he had punened auto on the valvos wnich 6 would roset them. No. 1, I did observo it did come 7 open.
8 MR. BEARD: You used the manual loaders 9 the Baily system provides you are talking about tor 10 the hand operation?
11 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 MR. BEARD: Okay. It has a little thumb
() 13 wheel I think below it that has a mater that 14 indicates a valve pasition typically and a little 15 thumb knob you can ad3ust the manual setpoint with.
16 MR. YOUNG: No. It has a small meter, 17 zero to hundred percent, with a eneostat Knob type.
18 MR. SEARD: Knob. Lixe a volume control 19 on your radio.
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Le t's sea. At ono 22 point you had said that auxiliary teedwater valves 23 599 and 608 were opened?
~s 24 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
/,
1
\
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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55 1 MR. ROSSI: And you observed that from C/ 2 tne --
3 MR. YOUNG: No, I was told that they were 4 opea.
5 MR. ROSSI: That you were told they were 6 open by someone in the control room or by --
7 MR. YOUNG: Shift supervisor.
8 MR. ROSSI: So he told you they were open 9 and then you were told again I guess that the 10 startup feedwater pump was available, and that was 11 by communications'with Steve Feasel?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
() 13 MR. ROSSI: Oxay. Then why don't you 14 proceed.
15 MR. BELL: Getting back to Mr. Lanning's 16 point, even with the 599 and 608 open, there are 17 still valvas closed on the discharge of the 18 auxiliary f ee dwa ter pump tnat would prevent those 19 pumps --
20 MR. YOUNG: No. Tne segregation valves 21 nad rapositioned. I noted that.
22 MR. BELL: Okay.
23 MR. YOUNG: They were lined up in --
,s 24 MR. BEARD: Why -- did the segregation
. l)
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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56 l
l 1 valves r-3 position automatically?
2 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
3 MR. BEARD: What automatic condition 4 would cause those to reposition versus staying in l
5 whatever position they were?
6 MR. YOUNG: SFRCS a c tua tion of low lovel I
7 that we manually put in there.
8 MR.-BEARD: OKay. So that if the system 9 had been configured in I'll call it the cross-over 10 configura tion .wne re. tne feedpump feeds the opposite 11 generator, that on-low level actuation of the .
12 Rupture Control System, those cross-over valve 1 13 would.be realigned so the aux feed would feed their
( ).
I- 14 associated generators? .
h 15 MR. YOUNG: As long'as the low pressure
, 16 . trips were cleared.
17 MR. BEARD: As long as --
that was the
- 18 only tning?-
19 M R'. YOUNG: Yes.
h 20' MR.: LANNING: Did you start-feeding with 21 the startup faedwater pump immediately.after.you 22 wereLtold it"was available?
l 223 MR.. YOUNG: -Well, before I was told it
!~
1 . .
j .% 24 Lwas.available,: I'ran -- I had'taken both the
~
- .? '
' ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS ~INC.-
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r I m m.. . .__
57 1 startup valves and ran the valves open to the crack o
2 point. I am very familiar with the crack point on 3 demand meter. Then at that time when I had 4 accomplished this, Steve Feasel gave me a call and 5 stated the teedpump was available.
6 MR. BEARD: So the valves were ott their 7 seats? Is that what you mean by the cracx point?
8 MR. YOUNG: They were just below or Just 9 at the point or cracking open.
10 MR. BEARD: I see.
11 MR. ROSSI: Now, that was the demand to 12 the valves, not the actual position; is that t 13 correct?
14 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
15 MR. ROSSI: I mean, you had demanded them 16 to the cracked position with a signal?
17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
18 MR. ROSSI: But what did you know at that 19 point in time about the actual position of the 20 valves?
21 MR. YOUNG: Nothing at all.
22 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
23 MR. YOUNG: I also -- whon the RO that 7.- 24 reset them came back around the panel, he said he V
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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58
.1- 'could not get Channel 4 to reset by an indication
("
ks) 2 ' light in the back of the control room.
-3 MR. BEARD: This is Channel 4 of what?
4 MR. YOUNG: SFRCS.
i
~5 MR. BEARD: Is there any name or any ;
I' 6 descriptive you-can help me understand what Channol 7 ,4 means?
8- MR. YOUNG: T h e' r e is four parameter 9' channels in SFRCS with-two actuation channels. Two
- 10 parameter channels feed each actuation channel.
i . .
-11 Ma. BEARD: All right.
- ' 12' MR.-YOUNG
- Is'that'enough?
l
-() ~ 13' MR. BEARD: Which one woul'd be No. 4?
j.
14 MR. YOUNG: It.would be for the No. 2 I 15 side.
i' 16 MR. . BEARD:. Of what-parameter?-
17 MR.. YOUNG: Of.the actuation channels.
I 18 MR. BEARD: I'm thinking, are wa talking 7
19 about-a leve'l cnannel.or pressure channel?
20 MR.-YOUNG: What I mean by parameter!
' 21 channel ~is that.thore: is --;each-. parameter channel
[-
, 22 monitors level, pressuro, feedwater deltaLP or, 23 excuse me, check valve delta.P for the feedwater l
i .
24 and;RCPs.
LACE FEDERAL REPORTERS'INC.
.(202) 347-3700
. - . _ . .. . ,.- - . - , , , _ _ . _ - - - . , --,.,m,,_ .
._ .m _. . _ _ m. _ . . . . . . _ . - _ __ _._ _._ __ _ . -
59 1 M R . -T ?. A R D : So all four of those
-'- 2 - diffaront parameters are brought together in a 1 3 family?
- 4- MR. YOUNG: Yes.
5 MR. BEARD': And then a trip of either --
6 - any one of those.four constitutes something?
t 7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
1
) 8 MR. BEARD: And you are saying the forth .
9 of those families could not be reset?
j .
10 MR. YOUNG: No. Not of the -- what I am 11 saying is tha t the startup valves require two 12 cnannels:to be trippod, two' parameter channels to
~13 be-tripped for both of them to go closed; oxay?
.({)
14 Then-if you cannot reset the solenoids: for-one.of l
i-15 .-tnose tour signals, which is.what we assumed, tnen 16 tha t cha nnel woul'd Jno t be'blocke'd.
17 'MR. BEARD: Or r e se t?
1 18 -MR. YOUNG: Yes.
f 19 MR. BEARD: Not cleared?
4 20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
-21 MR.. BEARD: -So'does this represent that' 22' previously you had two of these four I?ll call them !
6 123 - families oriparameter' channels in a trip , mode that 4 24 -made-kind of a classical two out of.four logic, and
- O.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
- ~ (202)-347-3700 ,
y y ,*r e ,e -t-- + , ,,,+-,..~-4 y * -y---*e-v-
L , ,
60 l 1 that's what happened?
'2 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
3 MR., BEARD: And in'the resotting/ clearing i
I 4 ' effort, at'lcast three of.them were cleared but 5 there'was one that remained.in aEtrip mode?
I 6 MR. YOUNG:- Yes.
! 7 MR. BEARD: And this would mean you would 8 be left then with,one out of four. tripped. Now,
'9 would that cause any actuation or.is'that like a
- 10. . half trip?
11 MR. YOUNG: That's a half. trip'still.
- 12' MR. BEARD
- But you would be able to do-I e'verything you wanted to do?
(]) 13 14 MR.-YOUNG:' Yes.
t j 15 .MR. ROSSI: Including opening both of.the 16 startup. valves?. I - m e s'n , tnatishould not normally i
l 17 prevent you from opening the.startup valve, 'the i 18- fact that Channel 4 of1SFRCS'nad not reset?
19 MR. YOUNG: T'ha t is correct.
4 ..
-20 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
! 21' MR. YOUNG:' .I opened upiboth'startup-1
. 22 5 valves at that time ' to the crack points, as I.was 23 stating.- That way I could use-either, valve when -
, . 24 the.startup pump b e c a m o 1 a v a i la bl e' . _Then~I started-ACE' FEDERAL REPORTERS I N C '.
( 20 2 )' 347-3700 !
f
., _ -m . - _ _ . . . , ,__.__a. a., . .. s ...u,_., - - _ . .
1 61 1 the startup feedpump and immediately graubed the B
'/
'- 2 startup valve, SP7B.
3 MR. BELL: That feeds which steam 4 generator?
5 MR. YOUNG: No. 1. At that time I also G had a call from tno people that I nad at tne aux 7 feedpump. We -- he was resetting No. 1. They 3 opened up the valve, and at that time it only came 9 up to twenty-two nundred rpm.
10 MR. BELL: Is twenty-two hundred rpm a 11 sufficiant speed to cause steam generator tead?
12 MR. YOUNG: No, it isn't.
()
13 MR. BELL: I have got one more -- okay.
14 Go ahead, please.
15 Now you have got the startup pump on and 16 you have got SP7B open?
17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
18 MR. BELL: Now, what's your s ta tus? Have 19 you got feedwater flow established to the steam 20 generators?
21 MB. YOUNG: Yes, I co.
22 MR. BELL: Mcw and when was the main 23 fcedwater isolation valve on taat side opaaod?
,y 24 Beesuse if tha t valve is closed, you don't have
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62 1 foodwater flow.
\~# 2 MR. YOUNG: That is corruct. I nad asked 3 Ted Lehman to block and open tne mains.
4 MR. BELL: During what period of time?
5 MR. YOUNG: During the time that Rick 6 Walleman was in the back control room.
7 MR. BELL: Rick who?
8 MR. YOUNG: He's the otner RO.
9 MR. BELL: But this was before you 10 received the call from Steve telling you that he 11 nad the startup faodpump available?
12 MR. YOUNG: That is correct. I had
() 13 reestablished the flow path.
14 MR. BEARD: Which included reopening the 15 asIVs.
16 MR. BELL: The main feedwater isolation 17 valves?
la MR. YOUNG: No, main feedwater isolation.
19 When I did tell "ad Lehmaa to open the main 20 feedwater isolatione, that the block valves ware 21 closed, which are for the main feedwater control 22 valves.
23 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So now you atartod up l
3 24 the startup feedpump and ycu have SP7B open and you N.J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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63 1 now noted that auxiliary feedwater pump No. 1 camo k 2 up only to tw e n ty-two hundred rpm.
3 MR. BEARD: What's nominal tull propar 4 speed tor that?
5 MR. YOUNG: Thirty-six hundrod.
6 MR. BEARD: Thirty-six hundred. So it 7 was two-tnirds of the way up?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Wny don' t you proceed.
10 MR. YOUNG: I also no te d at this time 11 that No. 1 steam generator pressuro was dropping 12 ott rapidly. Just before I had raceived a call
() 13 from Jeff Meleg, it had dialed in a slight demand 14 open on the No. 1 atmospheric vent valve to provont 15 from lifting the safeties once the steam generator 16 pressure was reestablished in the No. 1.
17 When I noted that the steam generator 18 pressure was dropping ratner rapidly and unexpected, 19 I reclosed the atmospheric vent valve.
20 MR. BELL: Is No. 1 steam genera tor 21 pressure dropping _because you got the atmospheric 22 vent-valve open or because the No. 1 steam 23 generator is dry?
24 MR. YOUNG: I could not make that b
u-ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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64 1 de te rmina tion , whether it was'the feedwater I was
~
2 pumping in was quenching the st'eam or whether it l-4 .3 was because I had the atmospheric vent valve open i
4 at that time. I could not make'that determination 5- other than-'Inwas losing pressure and I had to stop 4
6 my leaks somewhere. And-I- chose the atmospheric i:
7 vent valve by reclosing that.
8 MR.- ROSS I:. What happened to the steam i- 9 ganerator. pressure when~you reclosed it?
10 MR. YOUNG: I -- n o t i c e d that -- I- took the 11 time.out at that time to pi'ckEup the phone to Jeff 12 Meleg and saw the turbine come up to speed to-
- twenty-two hundred_ rpm, .then I looked back and saw
(]) 13 i
14 it-was. coming back up.-
~
15 MR. ROSSI: The pressure was coming back
.l 16 up?
17- MR. YOUNG: -Yes.
'18 MR. ROSSI: A f' t e r the. auxiliary'foodwater
-19 pump- No. 1-came back up to twenty-two hundred rpm?
i 20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
i e 21 MR. ROSSI: ' Let's see. The ~ No. 1 22 _ auxiliary f eedwa ter pump' feeds t h'e No. 1 s tea m 23 cgenerator; is that.right?
24 MR. YOUNG: _Yes.
ACEEFEDERAL' REPORTERS INC.
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65 4
'l MR. ROSSI: But valve SP78 also feeds the iL -
2 No. 1-steam generator?
3 'MR. YOUNG: Yes.
- 4 MR. ROSSI
- Okay. So both the first 5 auxiliary feedwater pump that came up to speed and 4 6 the first startup fuedwater pump valve that got l 7 opened both went to the No. 1 steam generator?
I 8 MR.' YOUNG:- Yes.
9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. What did you' observe
} 10 at about this-time about auxiliary feedwater pump 11 No. 27 ,
1 12 MR. Y O U N G': I had no flow on it..
() 13 MR. ROSSI: You had no flow.. '
- 14 MR.' YOUNG
- It only =had six hundred
!~
15 pounds discharge pressure-which I was aware of had --
i-l.
16 was not-~enough pressure to push any'watar-.in. ,I t !
~
17 was-at that time I K n e'w I had 850 pounds pressure 18 in the: steam generator, . and that's when.I decidad
, 19 to reshut-the atmospheric vent.valvo.
'20 Then once-I had saw.that the steam
! 21 pressure.was returning, I'took the aux f eedwa te r -
-22 governor in hand,.Eselected auto essential and tried 23 to give control of it to the automa tic feeder or '
, . - 24 the1 governor'.
f' : ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS!INC. ~
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66 1 MR. BEARD: Which aux faedpump are you
- 2 talking about now?
3 MR. YOUNG: No. 1.
4 MR. BEARD: There were people down there 5 working on that reset?
6 II R . YOUNG: They had reset it at that 7 time.
8 MR. BEARD: But I mean, were there peopla 9 still in tnat room working on that pump or that 10 turbine trying to get you back on line?
11 MR. YOUNG: That I do not know.
12 MR. ROSSI: Well, at this point --
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Excuse me. Let me clarify 14 what I was saying. I was on the phone with the EO 15 that was down there talking to him about tnat pump.
16 There was two other COs in the startup faedpump 17 tnat I knew of or, excuse me, the aux feedpump room 18 that I knew of. f. s to what they ware doing, I do 19 not know.
20 MR. BEARD: But in any event, you were in 21 direct communications with some et the workers that 22 were at that end of the game trying to get you on 23 line. And I guess the two of you agreed or decided f~ 24 to put this in auto essential?
k ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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67 1 MR. YOUNG: I dacided on my own.
' 'I)
s' 2 MR. BEARD: And you told thom tha t?
3 MR. YOUNG: No. That had no bearing to 4 them at all how I was trying to get the spead to 5 increase.
6 MR. BEARD: Okay.
7 MR. YOUNG: Then I saw no response. I 3 put it back on the manual, went to increase on the 9 manual control, still no response.
10 I asked the equipment operator if he saw 11 any motion in the governor motor. He said he did 12 and it was just turning.
13 I tnen said, Did you see any movement in
-( )
14 'ne governor itself?
. And he said no.
15 And I asked him -- at that point I know I 16 was not going to be successful in getting that pump 17 going. I said, Do anything you can to get the 18 speed increased.
19 MA. EOSSI: It uas still at this point in 20 time at around twenty-two hundred rpm; is tnat 21 correct?
22 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
l l
23 MR. BELL: Can you give us an astimation i
gm 24 of that pump's discharge pressure?
! (-)
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68 1 MR. YOUNG: Approximately six hundred
^
/ '3 I kJ 2 pounds.
3 MR. BELL: I thought you said that was 4 No. 27 5 MR. YOUNG: No. 1.
6 MR. BELL: No. 1 auxiliary faedpump is at 7 twe n ty- two hundred rpm and six hundred pounds 8 discharge pressure?
9 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
10 MR. BEARD: That's what I rememoor he 11 said.
12 MR. BURNS: You were speaxing on tne I)
V 13 phona to Jeff Maleg?
14 -MR. YOUNG: Yes.
15 MR. BELL: That's who the equipment 16 operator down there was?
17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
18 MR. B E A11 D : And your final instructions I 19 guess to them ware, Do whatever you can to got me 20 some spead on that thing?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. BEARD: And then at that time did you 23 terminate tne conversation, I mean, lixe hang up g 24 the phone?
%,)
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69 l 1 MR. YOUNG: No.
't f'J
2 MR. BSARD: Okay.
3 MR. YOUNG: Then another equipment 4 operator came on the lina saying that tney were 5 resetting No. 2, that one cama up to speed and 6 tripped.
7 MR. BEARD: Tripped?
8 MR. YOUNG: It just tripped on it. As to 9 the reason why, I do not know. I didn't get much 10 speed.
11 MR. BEARD: So there was clearing of the 12 No. 2 initial overspeed trip and then that allowed
() 13 steam to tiow into tne turbine and come up to do 14 wha te v a r it was. And something caused a second 15 trip?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: And you are not concerned 13 rignt now witn the cause of that second trip, but 19 it did trip tna second time?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes. The same time I noted 21 that No. I had tripped a second timo.
22 MR. BEARD: Oh, I see. No. I had tripped?
23 MR. YOUNG: No. 2 had tripped a second
- 24 time and No. 1 had tripped a second time.
\s)
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70 1 MR. BEARD: Now, No. 1, it I ramember
'~' 2 back on that one, tha t's the one that we lett at 3 twenty-two hundred rpm and around six nundred and 4 some pounds and your folks down there ware trying 5 to gut you some speed?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
7 MR. BEARD: Is there any sort of trip 8 that you would have expected to come in or do you 9 think that second trip may have baen associated to
~
10 their efforts to try to gat you some speed, or do 11 you have any feel?
. 12 MR. YOUNG: I could make no datermination
() 13 on that.
14 MR. BEARD: So now both of them havo 15 tripped a second time?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay.
18 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't you proceed.
19 Do you hava a question 7 20 MR. BELL: Yes, sir.
21 MR. BEARD: Ho's being polite when he has 22 a question instead of just spoaxing out lixo I do.
23 MR. BELL: The initial enuncia tors on 73 24 both No. 1 and No. 2 auxiliary foedwater pump U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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71 1 turbines told you those turbinas had trippod on
'-) 2 overspeed.
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BELL: When they relatched the 5 turbinos, would tha t enunciator clear?
6 MR. YOUNG: It should have. I did not 7 note it.
8 MR. BELL: So it it hadn't been cleared 9 and those teedpump turbines nad tripped again on 10 overspeed, then without the alarm being cleared, 11 you would have no information as to wnat caused 12 tnat pump to trip the second time?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
14 MR. BEARD: If it ware overspoed again.
15 MR.-BELL: If-it were overspeed again.
16 MR. BEARD: If it wers on a different 17 condition, I would suspect the new onunciator would 18 have come in; right?
19 MR. YOUNG: There is no other condition 20 tnat would trip that. pump.
21 MR. BEARD: That's the only enunciator 22 that you havo o r. that trip?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
rm 24 MR. BELL: That was going to be my next U
ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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72 1 question. Tha only automatic trip on that pump is 2 turbine overspoed?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. ROSSI: So presumably both auxiliary 5 feedwater pump No. 2 and auxiliary feedwater pump 6 No. 1 at this time had tripped again on overspeed?
7 MR. YOUNG: I could not make that 8 determination.
9 MR. ROSSI: They just tripped?
10 MR. YOUNC: Yes.
11 MR. ROSSI: You don't Know what tripped 12 them. They had tripped?
13 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
(])
14 MR. ROSSI: How did you know they nad 15 tripped? What was your information?
16 MR. YOUNG: No speed. The noise from the 17 room was -- indicated turbine speed was decreasing.
18 MR. BEARD: There are otner trips, but 19 it's just the overspeed is the one that is 20 onunciated in the control room?
21 MR. YOUNG: There is a low suction 22 prassure that closes a valve.
23 MR. BEARD: But I mean, there are other
.s 24 aignals or conditions tnat cause that pump to trip?
7
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73 1 MR. YOUNG: No.
2 MR. BEARD: So the only t r i p., automatic 3 trip is the overspeed?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
5 MR. ROSSI: Okay. But in any svent, you 6 observed -- you had said that both of tnese pumps 7 had tripped, and that observation was based on your
'8 observation of the pump speeds which you could see 9 on meters?
10 MR. YOUNG: As well as noise.
11 MR. ROSSI: As well as what you heard in 12 terms of the noise.
1 rs
( ) 13 MR. BELL: Two points of clarification.
14 The noise tha t you are talking about is a noise 15 that you are hearing over the telephone?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BELL: The second point, this No. 2 la auxiliary feedwater pump-turbine is the same pump 19 turbine that ycu used your knee to increase its.
20 speeds?
21 (1R . YOUNG: No.
22 MR. BELL: Is that the No. 17 23 MR. YOUNG: No. 1.
7s \ 24 MR. BELL: But it is still in manual with
%)
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74
- 1 its hand control switch run up to maximum?
i - ;I 2 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
3 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't you proceed.
6 feed pump, but at t h i r ty- s'i x hun' dred rpm,.again the
- 7. pump tripped. The rpm started to die off.
4 i 8 MR. ROSSI: This is.a third time now of 9 auxiliary feedwater' pump No. 1.
1
'10 MR. YOUNG: 1, yes. I also saw by the
- 11 alarms that I had a' low ~ pressure or a low suction 4
. 12 pressure transfer of norma'l suction to service
- 13 w a t e r .'
4 14' MR. BEARD: This is essentially in~
15 conjunction or at the same. time that you got the 16_ third trip?
3 17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
la MR. BEARD: Okay.
(' 13 MR. BELL: Wha t's the s ta tus of the No. 2 ,
20 - auxiliary-feedwater pump right now? Is it still
- 21' tripped?
j 22 MR. YOUNG: Yes. At that time, I watched i
l 23 the. suction valves open,,I asked Ted Lehman to-
{.fg- c 24 close the service water valve once it opened ---or
- 'd
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-
- 1 excuse me, I had asked Ted'Lehman to close the
_b\ -, 2 service watar valve, but then I changed my mind so t 3 that I could wait for the normal suction to insure 4 tha t would stay open.
5 I reopened the normal suction. Once it ,
- 6 was opened, I said i t was okay, and no-closed the 7 service water suction.
8 MR. ROSSI: Now, at'this point in time, i
9 you have feed from the startup feedwater pump --
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. ROSSI: --
to the No. 1 steam 1- _
- 12 generator. And how did you know you had tiow from t
13 the startup f ee dwa ter pump to~the No. I steam
(])
I 14 generator?
i
~
15 MR. YOUNG: ' By discharge-' pressure of the 1
16 pump. The water was going somewhere and when I had i- 17 's ta r te d , I' observed discharge pressure come up-
~18~ rather slowly and then I'was running out ~the pump i
19 at the time.-
l 20 During that.whole time I didn't have-time i
.I 21 to readjust pressure,'but it was ~ sitting at about .
l- '22 eight;hundred-pounds' discharge' pressure when normal-i p =23 Ldischarge pressure is eleven'hundred~on recire and.
i-4 i j , 24 nine hundred ' maximum flow.
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76 1 MR..ROSSI: So eight hundred is what you I
w 2 would expect assuming it was actually delivering 3 flow.to the' steam generator?
4 4 , MR. YOUNG: Nine hundred would be the 5 maximum I.would want. But eight hundred was what I 6 -nad.
7 MR. BEARD: So you deduced from that 8 pressure indication the. punips were running out; it J l
9- was pumping for all it's. worth. Also;your break 10 flow.--
11- MR. YOUNG: Also I knew I had some flow 12; because pressure was also regained.
- f. ( ) 13 MR. BELL: During this period of time, 14 that feedwater system has been setting over there
.15 with, what, four hundred degree water in it?
16 ,
MR. YOUNG:. Yes.
f 17 MR. BELL: Is there any possibility there
!. 18 was some flashing in the f eedwa ter piping in thosa 19 high pressure haaters up to the teed reg valves?
4 20 MR. YOUNG: ' Flashing? I-could not tell 21 you'tnat!for sure. I would have no wa y t o . -in'dic a te
'22 that. I would hear water hammering once-I. started-
.23 that"startup feedpump-and started-feeding the steam-24 genera' tor, but-I.'did not hear anything.
, ACE ~ FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. -
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77 1 MR. BELL: But if that pump was k' '
2 collapsing steam in the piping, wouldn't it taka a 3 whila for its discnarge pressure to build up?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes, it would.
5 MR. BELL: But you have no indication 6 that was taxing place?
7 MR. YOUNG: That is corract. I had no 8 sure way.
9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't you continuo.
10 The last thing I beliove I had was that auxiliary 11 taedwater pump No. 1 had tripped a third time?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
ID
- s u
13 MR. ROSSI: Okay. And auxiliary 14 teedwater pump No. 2 I guess at that point is still 15 tripped?
16 MR. YOUNG: Tripped.
17 MR. ROSSI: Trip meaning you obsarved the 13 speed was zero?
19 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
20 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Wny don't you go ahead.
21 MR. YOUNG: Than at that time, tne 22 equipment operator came back on the line that was 23 working on No. 2 pump, and I saw tne speed coming
,- m 24 up and he says --
we were talking at that time, V
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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1 78 1 started feeding No. 1 or, excuse me, No. 2 steam
'd
' 2 generator. I saw flow come up and then at tne sams 3 time we started getting No. 1 back.
4 MR. BEARD: So the first of the aux feed 5 pumps tha: was able to get up to speed and start 6 causing water flow was No. 27 7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. BEARD: And you ascortained that 9 because you saw it flow, and I assume you saw the 10 proper speed-indications?
11 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 Ma. ROSSI: What did this speed como up
() 13 to, do you remember?
14 MR. YOUNG: Thirty-seven hundred rpm.
15 MR. BSARD: Okay. And then immodlataly 16 or shortly thereafter then you saw some indications 17 on No. l?
18 MR. YOUNG: I don't know^the exact timo 19 trame. Everything was moving pretty fast.
20 MR. BEARD: The next thing was No. 17 21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. BEARD: And what kind-of indication 23 did you got on No. l?
-s 24 MR. YOUNG: Increasing spood. Flow I did G'
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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4 79 i'
~
- 1. not'observs at tnat timo as I l o o'k e d over to l.
2 observe steam generator levels.
r-3 MR. ROSSI: flow far up did the auxiliary .
1 4 feedwater pump No. 1 speed come at tnis time?
5 MR. YOUNG: I saw it was-going greater l 6 than three thousand rpm, and'I looked away to ~ tho 7 levels, I looked at No. 2. I saw it'at that time ,
l 3 go above fifty and'still_. increased. ,
3 4
9 MR. BEARD: Is this the level in steam i'
10 gonerator No. l?
fil MR. YOUNG: 2.
t Was increased and gone above' 12 MR.-BEARD:
i 13 fifty inches?
14 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
~
15 MR. BEARD: Okay.
16 MR. BELL: We had been feeding No. 1 17 steam generator-for a few seconds at least by now.
l-18 Do you have any level- indica tion in. No. 1 steam ,
i' 19 generator?..
20 .MR. YOUNG: -
No. I didn't obse r ve' a ny 21 detectible increase in stoam generator' level until 22 we got'.the auxi f eedpump going.
i .
~
23 MR. BELL:- 'Even with..the startup toodpump b
24 running and the SF7B?
p c v ACELFEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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I 80 1 MR. YOUNG: B.
MR. BELL: Open.
~
2 3 MR. YOUNG: SP7B opan.
4 MR. BELL: SP7B opan. .You still waren't 5 able.to establish a level.in steam generator No. 17 P
6- MR. YOUNG: No. I wouldn't really expect
~7 it f or a little whilo.
S' MR. ROSSI:5 :What was the level. reading in 19 the: No..l' steam generator when you.were using-only 10' the 'startup feedpump? '
~
- 11 MR. YOUNG: Ton-inches.' No. 2'was' reading 12 twelve inches.:
3 j- 13 MR. BEARD: I don' t want to break your 14- train of thought, but a thought occurred to me I 15; .nced to get off-my mind before I forget it. You 16- had indica ted a fow. minutes agoLwith r e g a r d - t'o a
~1 7 different thought'that.thalpressurefin at least ono 18 ao f the steam generators was around eight hundred 19 . fifty?
' '20 MR. Y,0 U N G : That wasfduring the time that
<I had: just started the-startup.feedpump.
- 22 MR. BEARD:' Okay;- ~ And ~ you: had indicated 23 'j ust -now tha t the levels were-on the order'of ten 124 -inches? -
-(O-
' ACE FEDERAL' REPORTERS INC..
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81 1- MR. YOUNG: Yes.
.f. Was that level about the same 12 MR.' BEARD:
i-3 as what it was;at.the. time you had the oight 4 hundred fifty?
5 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
- .6 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, what I'm trying
- 7. to getD t'o is_the condition of the steam g ene ra to r i l8 .being at that pressure and temperature or pressuro
+
9 .and level, have'you reached some trigger point in s
1 0 'some procedureDthat says-you ought to do something
- 11~ special?
' l'2 . MR. YOUNG: That does constitute a dry
({) l'3 ~ steam generator as well as an: overheating'avant.
14- MR.' BEARD: _ Overheating?
- 15 MR.. YOUNG: -Yes.
16L MR.:B$ARD: Okay.' So.you! have reached 4
- 17 some triggor point,'if I can use'that term, and t
- 18 .having. reached-that trigger point,'what would the i 19' tr a'i n i n g or-plant-procedures-cause you to do; naving
. [20. reached tha t . 't rig g e r point?
- '21 MR. . YOUNG
- Tha t woul'd be to go on li P I t
22 / makeup PORV' cooling.
l' '
[' .23 ' M R'. ;B E A R D :
. . Makeup PORV cooling?' '
, 24- .- M R . YOUNG:1 Yes.
A).
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82 1 MR. BEARD: This is where you are feeding
(
2 with the HPI and releasing through the PORV?
3 MR. YOUNG: Makeup pumps, HPI through the 4 PORV.
5 MR. BEARD: All right. Is this form of 6 cooling the same as what could be called feed and 7 bleed?
8 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay. Was this action 10 initiating tha t mode performed?
11 MR. YOUNG: No. Some time before I had --
12 I was able to obtain the startup feedpump -- this
() 13 was something I forgot to mention was tha t I was 14 watching my indication and I had noted the Th, 15 which is a me te r right above the aux feedwater 16 station, had read 590, and had made the 17 recommendation to the shitt sup that we go on tnat 18 type of the feed and bleed cooling that you are 19 referring to.
'20 MR. BEARD: Let me see if I understand 21 what you just said. Tne Th meters in proximity to 22 where you were working, it read 590, and based on 23 that.you made a recommendation to do wha t? I'm g- 24 just asxing you to repeat what you said.
-L; ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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83 1 MR. YOUNG:- I had made the recommendation j'N
-d- '2- that we go on PORV cooling or feed and bleed --
i *
'3 MR. BEARD: Feed'and bleed?
4 MR. YOUNG: --
as you refer to it. I had
[ ;5 also noted that steam pressures were on a slight s
16 decrease.
d
+
7' MR._ BEARD:. What was the result of -- w n o' 8 did you_make-the recommendation to?
I '9 MR. YOUNG: A shift supervisor. '
~
10 MR. BEARD: Ted --
s 11 MR. YOUNG: 'Ted Lehman.
- 12 MR. BEARD: Ted Lehman.- What was his I
13 reac't ion-to your recommendation?
14 MR._ YOUNG:' _I' 'no te d he was on.the: phone t-15
-to Bill O'Connor. He had~said the same --
he had 16 repeated what'I said --
'1 7 MR. BEARD:- To you?
f 18 MR. YOUNG: --
to Bill O'Connor.and= hung-i.
19 up.the phone. Then it was at that' time that I got 20; on- the: phone -- that I .g o t on the phone:with Steve e
v 21 .Feasel,.which was at the same time I was. working ,
12 2 with the startup. valves. I had --_those~,could ba J
'23 heldLopen while I was.looking.at-this indication.
24 M R .o BEARD: . 'Right. j 1
~ ' '
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84 1 MR. YOUNG: And that was at that time wa
J 2 got the startup feedpump going.
3 MR. BEARD: Okay. Before the startup 4 teedpump came up, had you received an answer to 5 your recommendation to go on feed and bleed?
6 MR. YOUNG: No. At that point when I 7 started with Steve Feasol I got too busy to hear 8 anytning.
9 MR. BEARD: I can understand you were 10 busy. I guess about the time that you would have 11 entered feed and bleed, you got the startup pump 12 running?
f) v 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
14 MR. BEARD: Do.you know if that feed and 15 bleed option was considered again after that? For 16 example, did you recommend it or did someone 17 suggest it?
18 -MR. YOUNG: No, I didn't. At the timo 19 the thougnt left my mind.
20 MR. BEARD: The thought left your mind 21 because you nad gotten some feca.
22 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
23 MR. BEARD: Do you tael like the amount 73 24 of feed or the source of the feed or the food rates Y-]
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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85 i
'l or whatever would constitute an alternate, an 1; .
~ '
2 acceptable' alternate to the feed and bleed mode or 3 a better.way to.go, or what was your thinking?
i 4 MR. YOUNG: At'that time the thought left ,
5 my mind, I was reacting too much.because I had to 6 .g e t to the aux'feedpumps. That was.of primary 1
. 7 concern - at that time. I was assuming 1that Ted- ,
8 Lehman was discussing it or whatever he was doing 9 ovor;there, they~ ware ~taking care of that.
10 M R .1 BEARD: I; see. - .And your first 1 - 11 : priority was the. aux feedpumps?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
13 See, I'had anothe_r question.
(]) MR. ROSSI:
! 14 I had asked earlier about the levolDin the No. 1
'15 steam generator when-it1was being fed with the t
$ 16 s ta r. tup. f e edwa te r pump, and'I believeLyou said it j
i 17 was-about1 ton inches?
4
! 18 MR. YOUNG:. Yes.
And just ! stayed at about ten i 19 MR. ROSSI:
I 20 ? inches)during the. time you were teoding.with'the ,
i '
- 21 .startup -f eedwa ter. pump? - .
! . 22 MR. YOUNG:- Yes.. '
i
' What about the steam
- 23 MR. ROSSI:
j
~
24 generator, pressure'during that-time for the No. l l- ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
i (202) 347-3700 1-
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.1 - steam gene ra tor?'
- 2 MR. YOUNG:- It initially dropped, and ,
3 tha t's when I closed the atmospheric vent valve and i 4 I notad that -- I.did some other activities, and 5 - than-I noted that-it was increasing.again. So I 6 had itland I also noted discharge pressure was at
- 7. e'ight hundred pounds. So I assumed that water wrs I 3 flowing in,. robuilding'the pressure.
9 MR. BELL: I need some teaching probably 1
10' on-that point. You had.a steam generator pressure ,
- 11 that was in excess of eight.hundred-pounds?
f 12 MR. YOUNG: .Yes.
13 MR. BELL: You hadLthe ma'in feeder
([
14 isolation valve on No. 1 steam generator ~on. You 15 had SP7B open, but your startup feedwater pump was {
1
+
i 16 only' putting out'eight hundred pounds ~ pressure.
- 17 -How can you. feed a steam generator tha t's oight.
j L18- hundred fifty pounds witn a f eedpump . tha t's only 19- ;
putting out eight hundred pounds?
20 MR. YOUNG: Well, at that time, I made .
'l 21 . tne assumption that.that was happening.
j 22' MR. BELL:- But how could that happon?
i.
23 Did.you have any other_ indications? Did the, i g 24 startup f e e'd w a t e r flow transmitter tell'you you
- ~ '
i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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67 1 were fooding the steam generator?
r
'> 2 MR. YOUNG: It's not anough tiow to 3 indicate on the startup flows.
4 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute. Let me see if 5 I understand Larry's question. I think Lscry is 6 saying that what are your memorias of tne pressures 7 were such enat it would appear to us that maybe 8 pressure and suction flow was not occurring. Let 9 me go back to wherc you thought you ware at tha 10 tima.
11 Was it your belief, rightly or wrongly or 12 accurate or inaccurate, that the pressura, 13 dischargo pressure being run out the value
(])
14 approximated the pressure in the steam generator 15 and therefore you thought you were in run out and 16 had a large flow?
17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
la MR. BEARD: In other words, that's where 19 .you ware, because I think Larry is asking you a 20 question of could tnat have been rho right or an 21 optimum conclusion, but nonotneless tha t's wheru 22 you wero?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
,g 24 MR. BELL: But the steam generator is in UI ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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'88 1 tne naighborhood of eight hundred fitty pounds;
%d 2 right?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BELL: And the pump dischargo 5 pressure is in tna neighborhood of eight hundred 6 pounds.
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
3 MR. ROSSI: And it's a motor driven 9 startup feedpump?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
11 MR. ROSSI: And what did you know about 12 the valvo position, I guess it's SP7B?
Ii v 13 MR. YOUNG: 7B. That it was 14 a pproxima tely 20 percent open.
15 MR. ROSSI: You had a position indicator 16 or demand?
17 MR. YOUNG: Demand indication.
18 MR. ROSSI: The demand was it was 20 19 parcent open?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
22 MR. YOUNG: I also did note that pressure 23 did increase on the pump.
gs 24 MR. ROSSI: Prosaure incraased on the U) r ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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89 1 pump?
D.
S- 2 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
3 MR. ROSSI: And how about in the steam 4 generator, it was --
5 MR. YOUNG: It was dropping.
6 MR. ROSSI: Still the steam generator was 7 dropping?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes. I couldn't tell you 9 what it dropped to. Things wore moving too tast 10 for me to make a good dotormination. I had to 11 assuma that at enat time.
12 Then lator on I, when I saw the stoam n
() 13 generator pressure come back up, I did not Know the 14 pressure, the exact pressure, but I did know it was 15 above nine hundrad pounds on tne discharge of the 16 pump lator on.
17 MR. ROSSI: On the startup foedwater pump?
13 MR. YOUNG: Yoc. I was also --
I telt at 19 that timo also that I was -- I didn't nave a valve 20 up far enough open to startup SP78 open tar snough, 21 but then my concentration went back to the aux teed 22 pumps which I tnought was a more protitable 23 prospect.
24 MR. BEARD: Were you finished with your u)
ACS FSDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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90 j 1 question?
(~'i
\~# Yes, I think I finished.
2 MR. ROSSI:
3 MR. BEARD: With the --
tnis electric 4 startup pump, with the conditions that you saw at 5 certain speeds, certain prassure, certain various 6 tnings, what sort of flow rate would you expect 7 that flow pump to be?
8 MR. YOUNG: Initially it was probably --
9 normal flow is 350 gpm. It was possibly in excess 10 of four nundred.
11 MR. BEARD: Per run out conditions or 12 what we perceive t$ o be run out conditions?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
14 MR. BEARD: All right. With four hundred 15 gpm, forgetting this situation -- let me ask a 16 hypothetical. On the once-through steam generator,
\
17 with four nundred and some gpm of flow, starting 18 from a dried-out condition, how rapidly would you 19 cxpect the level to increase?
20 MR. YOUNG: Not very fast. It would 21 flash to steam once it hit the generator.
22 MR. BEARD: Tha t's right. You have a hot 23 generator, so it would flash.
7, 24 MR. ROSSI: The pressure of the steam C ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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91 1 generator during this time, I mean, this is now in t' N
< 1 N' 2 the steam generator, was it going up?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
4 MR. ROSSI: The time after you started 5 the startup feedwater pump, the pressure in the 6 steam generator was increasing?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. ROSSI: And prior to starting the 9 startup feedwater pump it was decreasing?
10 MR. YOUNG: I couldn't tell you that. I 11 don't know.
12 MR. BEARD: We are getting into a lot of rm
() 13 details and I realize that we are asking you to 14 recall a tremendous amount of information. It's 15 almost overwhelming, the things liko what came 16 first, was it up, down, numerical values.
17 And I think it's fair and it should be on 18 the record that Mr. Young is hare sposking without 19 notes; this is totally from recall. And I think 20 that's important to noto.
21 I think you are doing what I considor to 22 be a suporb job of recall, and I just want to lot 23 you know and put you at easo. I think tnat's good.
24 MR. YOUNG: Thann you.
()
7-
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92 1 MR. BSARD: We are really trying to 2 understand, t ha t's all.
3 MR. YOUNG: No. I realize that I'm 4 coming trom memory, and I do torget to mention 5 things and then I get it out of the sequence of 6 events.
7 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Lot's sco. I'm not 8 sure where we are. Maybe you ought to tell us 9 where you think you were in your description and 10 then go on from there of the event, or start at 11 some point you thinx you have gotton up to in your 12 description and tnen go on. Maybe that's tho
() 13 easiost thing to do.
14 MR. YOUNG: Oxay. I had made -- I had 15 been successful in getting back No. 2 with the help 16 of the EOs, of course, cetting the aux feed pump 17 back that was feeding, I noted both rpm and tiow.
18 No. 1, with the help of the EOs, I was successful 19 in getting that oack up.
20 MR. BEARD: Excuse me, No. 2 a u,x 21 feedwater flow would glow into what ganarator?
22 HR. YOUNG: No. 2.
23 MR. BEARD: And which startup valve would g, 24 be involved?
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93 1 MR. YOUNG: That would be SP7A.
(D k/ MR. ESARD: OKay.
2 3 MR. YOJNG: Then I noted rpm on No. 1.
4 Then I went over to the startup ringos on steam 5 generator level. I noted tnat it was at coming up 6 to fifty inches, and went on through.
7 MR. ROSSI: That's the No. 2 steam 8 generator now?
'9 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
10 MR. LANNING: Which scale on the steam 11 generator are you reading this ott ot?
12 MR. YOUNG: Startup rango.
13
(]) MR. LANNING: Thank you.
14 MR. YOUNG: I than took the manual 15 controller on the No. 2 aux toedpump and tried to 16 decrease the speed. I got no responso out of it.
17 I tried auto essential again. I went back to 18 manual, then I hit increase again, no responso.
19 At that timo I told the EOs to throttle 20 back on'No. 2's trip throttle valve.
21 . MR. BEARD: So that what I hear you 22 describing is your EOs have bean successful in 23 getting you up to speed and gotting some flow, but s 24 they didn't have control of the si tua tio n ; it was a
(-)
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94 1 wido open avont?
2 MR. YOUNG: They didn't. At that point, 3 I didn't think I nseded thom to control spood with 4 the trip throttle valve.
5 MR. BEARD: Right.
6 MR. YOUNG: I assumed I would have 7 . governor control.
6 MR. BEARD: I'm confused on a point. Wa 9 were just talking a minute ago about with the 10 electric foodpump putting out ca tha ordar et four 11 hundred gpm it would flash when it would nit the 12 generator and would hit increased pressure?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
14 MR. BEARD: And I thinX you are telling 15 me when No. 2 Aux Feedwatar Pump was_ coming up, it 16 appeared you ware saying you rapidly roso to fitty 17 inchas on tna startup range, and at which point you 18 started to cut back on it somewhat. Is this a more 19 rapid rise than what we had on the startup pump?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Because at that time it 21 had a p p r o x 1.a a t e l y 1100 gpm.
22 MR. ROSSI: That's the tiow rate of the 23 auxiliary f eodwa ter pumps is 1100 gpm. Is that a 24 r.o r m a l kind of auxiliary flow rato from thosa?
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95 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
(m
\- 2 MR. BEARD: Is that Irom one or a total 3 from the two?
4 MR. YOUNG: That's from one.
5 MR. BEARD: Okay.
6 MR. BELL: And the flow rate into No. 1 7 steam generator from the No. 1 auxiliary foedwater 3 pump is what valua?
9 MR. YOUNG: I did not -- or it should be 10 approximately tne same; they are identical pumps.
11 But I did not Know the value at that time.
12 MR. BELL: But the pump is in service?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Ysa.
14 MR. BELL: And is toeding the steam 15 generatora 16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. ROSSI: And wnat's happoning to the Id level now in staam ganarator No. l?
19 MR. YOUNG: I n o ted it was still below 20 fifty inches when I took -- I had the EOs taxo 21 manual control.
22 MR. ROSSI: Of the No. 1 now?
23 MR. YOUNG: Of the No. 2.
24 MR. ROSSI: Of the No. 2?
[-)
(-
ACE PSDSRAL REPORTPRS INC.
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1
96 1 MR. YOUNG: That was with the trip
\
2 throttle valve.
3 MR. BEARD: When you got the two aux feed 4 pumps running, did you experience any difficulty 5 witn the s ta rtup valva associatad with the No. 2 6 steam generator?
7 MR. YOUNG: No. I didn' t even try that 8 ona.
9 MR. BEARD: If I remambar the numbar, it 10 was SP7A?
11 MR. YOUNG: I didn't try that one other 12 than opening it up to the crack point.
() 13 MR. BEARD: The cracX point baing just
- 14 roady to litt otf the seat?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. BEARC: So whero was tua No. 1 and 17 No. 2 aux Locdwater delivoring their flow to?
18 MR. YOUNG: Bach to their own steam ,
19 generators, No. 1 and No. 2.
20 MR. BEARD: Oh, wait a minuto.
21 MR. ROSSI: They don't go tnrough the
, 22 startup.
i 23 MR. BEARD: Tha t's right. They go 24 through the sacarate ring. So if there waro s 7-
'LJ l
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i
97 1 problem with the startup valve, you hadn' t attempted O 2 to use it anyway?
3 MR. YOUNG: Right.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay.
5 MR. ROSSI: So I think you ware at the 6 point where you nad told on EO to taso manual 7 control of tho trip tnrottle valvo on the No. 2 3 auxiliary t a e dwa te r pump?
9 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
10 MR. ROSSI: Okay. And that was becauso 11 you wara up I guasa abova citty inches lovel in tne 12 No. 2 steam generator on tne startup range?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yos. I noted that when I 14 looxad back a second time, that the icvel was 15 increasing above savonty-tive and tha t's whon I 16 decided tnat tne EOs snould taxa manual control 17 down thoro.
18 MR. LANNING: You could not control it 19 trom your work ctstion?
20 MR. YOUNG: No.
21 MR. BEARD: I balieva I haard you say a 22 while ago you tried auto canential, you tried 23 m a r. u a l ; you couldn't got oitner to worx. So you 24 told the guy to do it down there locally?
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98 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
()'
'~ 2 MR. BELL: And you're throttling the 3 trip and throttle valve for the No. 2 auxiliary 4 feadwater pump turbine which taeds the No. 2 OTSG?
5 MR. young: Yes, tha t's correct.
6 MR. BEARD: That's No. 2 you waro having 7 that trouble with, and you gavo them local control.
3 Wnst about the No. 1 aux foodpump? Did you havo 9 control problems thera?
10 MR. YOUNG: I did not even try it. I did 11 not want to take the chance of -- I hoard them over 12 there mentioning that they woro having trouble,
- () 13 they were going to go on ll P I or piggyback of tne i 14 HPI to holp maintain steam -- pressurizar lovel.
15 MR. ucARD: You said you haard they were 16 planning to do that or hoard they had dona that?
17 MR. YOUNG: I had hoard they had planned ld on it. The other RO had directed I thinK it was 19 St2ve Poasol to do it. I don't remembar any of the 20 ovents over there tnat were going on. I did know 21 thJy waro having troubles maintaining presouro.
a 22 MR. BEARD: Yes.
23 MR. YOUNG: So at that time I neglocted
,q 24 ovon trying No. 1 on the manual. I said that I YJ ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
99 1 asked him to take the No. 1 trip throttle valva K 2 and --
I 3 MR. ROSSI: You mean the No. 2?
4 MR. YOUNG: No. 1. No. 2 was already 5 tnrottled back at that time.
6 MR. ROSSI: So the E0 was succasaful i n 7 throttling back on the No. 2 aux toedwater pump S wnen you asked him to do it.
9 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
10 MR. ROSSI: And tuon go anoad.
11 MR. YOUNG: Then I asked nim to throttle 12 back on No. 1. I'm not trying it because I didn't 4
() 13 thinK I would have the tima to run the governor 14 down and catch it, because it doca tane a tow or a 15 couple of seconds to catch it. And I also nad 16 trouble with it beforenand running at twenty-two 17 nundred rpm.
la MR. BULL: Brian, wha t's causing tnis 19 reduction in RCS pressure and pressurizer l e vri l ?
20 MR. YOUNG: What is causing it?
21 MR. BELL: Yos.
22 MR. YOUNG: My rapid overcooling by 23 nitting tne steam generators with aux toodw-ster.
gm 24 MR. DEARD: So you felt that the control QN ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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100 1 of the steam generators was what nas affected the 2 primary system?
3 ,
MR. YOUNG: Yos.
4 MR. BEARD: Were tners any other 5 conditions that you heard mentioned or were aware 6 of that could nave caused the primary systam to 7 have loval or pressure problems?
8 MR. YOUNG: No. I was not aware of them 9 at that time.
10 MR. BELL: Now, wo have feedwater flow 11 astablished to both steam generators. I imagino 12 things are less hectic now than earlior?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes. I was trying to 14 communicate with tha EOs, trying to maintain speed 15 so that I did not got tnwm too low in speed that I 16 couldn't bring them up fast enough to maintain 17 levsl.
13 MR. BELL: But your lovels are 19 satistactory in the normal expected rango for aux 20 foodwater control?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes, at tha t tima.
22 MR. BELL: And subcooling margin, is it 23 oxay at tnis pariod of time? Have you glancod at 24 that or can you see that from whero you are?
(
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101 1 MR. YOUNG: That is directly b3 hind ma.
2 MR. BELL: So you would navo to turn 3 around to look at subcool margin?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
5 MR. LANNING: Is the aux teed pump in 6 service now?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes. I did close, onco I did 3 got both pumps throttled b2ck locally, coordinating 9 with the EOs, I did close 7A and B.
10 MR. BELL: So it's in service, but with 11 7A and 7B closed, it's only pumping water through 12 its recirculation path?
13 i
I
(]) MR. O'CONNOR: Yes.
14 MR. BELL: Did you nappen to observe the 15 discnargo pressure on the startup pump at this time?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes. I started out about I 17 think it was about 950 on the dischargo, and then 18 went on up after I had closeo the valvos.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay. And the reason you 20 closed those valves, because you had boon overfooding, 21 you are trying to maintain a levol and you go back 22 to your customary aux food systems and try to 2J control it with 3 startup?
rm 24 MR. YOUNG: W rt i l , at tnst time it was
( ).
%d ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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, 102 1 post-trip s ta r tup teedpump, and I knew it didn't 7%
'l 2 have enough capacity to romove the K heat. I also t
3 telt it would simplify things to get it out or tne 4 way.
5 MR. BEARD: I see. You montionod that, 6 backtracking just a bit, the level in I guess No. 2 7 steam generator wont through titty incnes and was 3 increasing. Ths t's whan you told thom to throttle 9 back.
i 10 MR. YOUNG: No. That's when I tried to 11 taxe manual control.
12 MR. BEARD: You tried to do it, okay. Do
() 13 you remember the maximum level we got to batore 14 turn around, roughly?
15 MR. YOUNG: No.
16 MR. BEARD: Or just ballparking it?
17 MR. YOUNG: No. When I asked them to 18 take manual control down thore, I asked thom, I 19 looked back and saw it was about a little bit 20 greater than soventy-fivo inchas.
21 MR. BEARD: And seventy-tivo is where you 22 ended up holding it, or did you bring it down to 23 titty?
24 MR. YOUNG: I brought it back down to ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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103 1 fifty, which is where wa are supposed to maintain
't'~N
' s'; 2 level.
3 MR. BEARD: Tha t's on No. 2. On No. 1, 4 did that level go nigher than you wsntad it initially 5 and than have to bring it back?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Because I was trying to 7 work with No. 2 at that time.
8 MR. BEARD: I understand. But it did go 9 high also?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yas. But not very much.
11 MR. BEARD: Just slightly overshoot tnen?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
() 13 MR. ROSSI: And by overshoot, you mean a 14 little bit over fifty?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. ROSSI: In Stoam Generator 1.
17 MR. YOUNG: Yos. That's the reason I had 18 them take that rather than attempt again to tako 19 the manual control.
20 MR. BEARD: So at this point, both steam 21 generators are roughly fifty, the startup electric 22 pump is valved off, the control of both aux food 23 pumps is owing dono locally by the EOs; is that 24 correct?
(/
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS I tic .
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104 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
f m,
- 2 MR. BEARD: So you are pretty steady now 3 in terms of the K heat removal mode?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes. It's at that time that 5 I alected to try to put number --
use No. 2 aux 6 feed's. governor and try to take manual control to 7 simplify things down there and reliove a man for 8 other things. I took a governor and decreased it 9 until it eventually took control.
10 It worked and I had them open up the
- 11 valve and release the guy from down thera, and I 12 had manual control.
13 MR. BEARD: Is that the normal mode of
[])
14 control you would have used?
15 MR.,
YOUNG: Pardon?
16 MR. BEARD: The manual control on tne 17 main control board you wars using, is that what la normally, not in tnis situation, out in otner 19 post-trip situations, is that the way you normally 20 would havo used it?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. BEARD: ThJre wasn't anything speciiti 23 about the way you were controlling the level?
. 24 MR. YOUNG: I still don't see wha t you ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
',- -w
105 1 are trying to get at.
O Y 2 MR. BELL: In other words, it I gat an 3 SPRCS actuation on low OTSG level, it would 4 normally be in auto essential?
5 MR. YOUNG: That's correct.
6 MR. BELL: To feed the steam generacors 7 up to some pradetarmined level. Then wnat would 3 happen?
9 MR. YOUNG: Yos. Then, as long as 10 everything worked rignt, than you would taxa manual 11 control at that time. That would be a dacision you 12 would make in coordination with the shift
() 13 supervisor to taka manual control to vent -- well, 14 the way the specific rulo reads is tha t you aro 15 allowed to take manual control of the aux feedpump 16 governor to prevent RCS presaure swings.
17 MR. BELL: Okay. But starting those 18 feedpumps up attor they tripped on overspeed, that 19 would normally be done with the switen in auto 4
20 assenti 1. In other words, it's a little abnormal 21 to be controlling that speed in manual to stoam 22 g e n e r=1 t o r levels loss than the auxiliary teodwater 23 pump control sotpoint.
24 Yes.
n v
MR. YOUNG:
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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106 1 MR. DEARD: But you nad been through a
^
(~s') 2 situation whera tha pumps had failed, tripped out?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: And you had peopla down there 5 trying to get you back on lino, and I will assume 6 for the moment this afterwards resulted in 7 subsequent trips or restart atforts ended up in 3 trips and, as all part of that recovery getting you 9 back on line, everything was done in manual, wa s n' t 10 it?
11 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 MR. BEARD: It's just that you really
() 13 never got into the automatic fill up to a certain 14 level and then take manual control because of the 15 failures you were expariencing?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: I mean, tha trips on the off 18 speed pumps?
19 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay. So that while the 21 condition you had been through was unusual from a 22 normal situation, it would not have baan unoxpectad 23 or unusual considaring you had theso trips and had e3l 24 people down there trying to get you back on line?
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107 1 MR. YOUNG: That is correct.
im
( )
\' 2 MR. BEARD: I understand. Thank you.
3 MR. ROSSI: Okay. What happened atter 4 this then?
5 MR. YOUNG: It was at that tims we were 6 prett/ much stable. I started talking to tuo other 7 peow '. o in the room.
S I noted that Louis Simon had showed up, 9 and s1 etly thereafter Bill O'Connor. At that 10 point in tima I was'still maintaining steam 11 ganers:or lovels and pressurizar or, excuse me, 12 a oam generator prosaure by use of the atmosphoric O ta > "' eetve -
14 MR. BEARD: So your duty station was 15 pretty mucn under control and you ware basically 16 keeping it that way7 17 Ma. YOUNG: Yes.
18 MR. BEARD: Wero you awaro of any other 19 problems at the plant with malfunctioning equipment 20 or plant conditions whero that ststion hadn't 21 gottan as well recovered as you had or were there 22 any things --
23 MR. YOUNG: The only thing on the prim.3ry g3 24 side, wh3n I had gotten evarytning protty much L.)
ACE PSDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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103 1 stabilized, gotten everything under control, I c,
t 4
\' 2 could take time out to really concentrate what was 3 going on on the primary side. That was pretty much 4 under control.
5 Then Steve Feasol was going through tne 6 trip recovery procedure and vacuum was rather --
7 how do I put it to make sure it's correct --
8 absolute inches of vacuum was high. And we broke --
9 MR. BELL: You were losing condenser 10 vacuum?
I 11 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 MR. BEARD: OKay. Following up on the
\
()
es 13 same question I had before, did the'other operator --
14 what was nis name? I have forgotten it.-
15 MR. YOUNG:- Rick Walleman.
16 MR. BEARD: Rick. Did'ne mention to you 17 he nad experienced any difficulties on the primary 18 side?
19 MR. YOUNG: No, not at'tnat time. He 20 was -- he said that everything was pretty much 21 .under control. Pressurizer level was high, 280, 22 and tnat pressure was coming back, was being 23 restored.
24 ~Other than that, I had no indication from 7.
( ')
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~. . . -. .- .. . - . . . - - ~.-- _. ._.. -
F 109 1 nim or anybody else tha t anything aise was wrong.
4
-- 2 MR. BEARD: Okay. And'the last question 3 in this series is tha t as far as you were aware --
- - 4 I think you . indica ted earlier you heard people
'5 . planning to piggyback the LPI and HPI. Were you 6 aware of whether they actually used the system in 7 th'at. mode'or whether'it was being used in that mode i 4 8 o r - w h a' t were you aware of?
9 MR. YOUNG: I did note that the low flow
. 10 . enunciators were on.
.11: MR. BEARD:' Low flow? P 12 MR. YOUNG: Yes. For fl P I .
O 13 "a- 88^ao= oxev-l'4 MR. YOUNG: Which are normally'out when i
15 't h e pump is'off-and come onlwhen the. pump is started.
4 16 Other'than that, I-didn't Know'too much about that,
-17 - what-they'had done on that side.
I -
J 18 MR. BEARD: I guess.there.is an As far as you are aware, there is 19 additionalcone. i
'20 - no-us'efof the-lf eed and bleed mode of co' cling?
i-
'21 MR. YOUNG:- That.is correct.
22 MR. BEARD:- .Okay. -
I
- 23. - MR.. BELL: . .How'long.a time period.has k 7 -24 passed since you-came.out of the~ kitchen into the
- ' }~J L .
. ACE ~ FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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7
== Y -w -W'.+ rm-g a yv 1-- t y- e -9 9-,,g y f f .- n.+.v- e vp - 9
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110 1 control room and now you ara stable? !!ow long did g
J 2 it seem like to you?
3 MR. YOUNG: Seemad like ton years.
4 MR. BELL: I know you probably looked at 5 the sequence of events and you xnow it's roughly, 6 what, twenty minu te s or something. But did it seem 7 liKe it was a lot longer or a lot shorter?
S MR. YOUNG: When I toox time out to 9 tigure out how much time had passed, I would say 10 roughly nalf nour, forty-five minuces. But I still 11 didn't note the clock.
12 MR. BELL: I Know. You get wrapped up
() 13 with the plant and time goes by.
14 MR. SEARD: Wnan you are having tun.
15 I guess we pretty much covered the event, 16 haven't we, Rick 7 17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
18 MR. BEARD: Or Brian, I'm sorry.
19 Looking back on the event, old you have 20 any general feelings as to wnst you nad 'caon 21 'through in the last ten years, as you put it? I 22 mean, 'how did you feel? Had you been through a lot 23 of excitement or a near tragedy or a pretty good es 24 drill? Just how did you feel about what had b ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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111 1 happen 3d?
\d 2 MR. YOUNG: How did I feel? I telt 3 lika -- I had been through some otnar tripa, you 4 know. I fcit nervous, hyper that like I wanted to 5 jump and grab something. I'm trying to recall all 6 the feelings. I just felt that I had just been 7 through like you would feel in an accident.
8 MR. BEARD: You are referring to like an 9 automobile accident?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes, an automobile accidont.
11 Notning serious, where you just hit a car; that 12 your car is messed up and'another person's car is
(/,) 13 messed up, and you felt just snaxen up a little bit.
14 MR. BEARD: But nobody was killed as a 15 result of tne accident?
16 MR. YOUNG: No parsonal injury, nobody 17 was hurt. It's Just that you had done damage to 18 your car and anotner person's car. It is that type 19 of fealing.
20 MR. BELL: Did these events remind you of 21 any other situations that you nave read about or 22 been trained on?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes. -An overhaating avant.
g-) 24 MR. LANNING: Have any otner similar
'n l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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l 112 1 events occur at Davis-Besse?
2 MR. YOUNG: No. That was the first time 3 an event lixe that had really nappened.
4 MR. LANNING: How about an event 5 involving a dried-out steam generator?
6 MR. YOUNG: That I wasn't involved in 7 other than the cool down portion of it. But I S didn' t saa too much of the indication.
9 MR. LANNING: Were you briefod on that 10 event?
11 MR. YOUNG: Yes, I was informed of it.
12 But through my own personal training, it nas some
() 13 similarities but not a lot.
14 MR. LANNING: But I'm trying to gat how 15 you were brieted about it. Was it during a training 16 course you wars told about this event?
17 MR. YOUNG: No. I actually talked to the 18 operators involvad. There was also a TAP report 19 put out on it.
20 MR. LANNING: What is a TAP report?
21 MR. YOUNG: Transient analysis program, I 22 believe tha t's what it is.
23 MR. BEARD: Is tnis something put out by f ~s 24 8 & W?
N.' ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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113 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
'/ 2 MR. BELL: This event you are talking 3 about, I think Wayne and you are talsing about two 4 separate events. Are you talking about tuo 1977 5 event here?
6 MR. YOUNG: Year and a halt ago I believe.
7 MR. BELL: Okay. That's right.
8 MR. YOUNG: It was in Marcn of 'd4.
9 MR. LANNING: T ha t's the one. fla d you 10 experienced previous trips of tna auxiliary 11 f eedwa ter pumps on overspcod?
12 MR. YOUNG: No.
(, ~) 13 MR. LANNING: This was the first one you 14 had to daal with?
15 MR. YOUNG: Myself personally, .yos.
16 MR. BEARD: There nave been others?
17 MR. YOUNG: No.
18 MR.. BEARD: I was trying to understand.
19 You said the first one you nava experienced. Arc 20 you aware that the plant has experienced other 21 trips of the aux feodwater on overspeed?
22 MR. YOUNG: No.
23 MR. LANNING: Are there actions that you l
7 24 must complete at the panel bercre tnis overspeed V
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114 I 1 trip can bo reset locally?
i i 2 MR. YOUNGi No.
e-3 MR. LANNING: No. Wnen there are 4 problems.with equipment on theisecondary sido, do :
5 .you initiato the work -reques t?
T 6- MR. YOUNG: Yes.. But not just myself.
7 A l l-- t h e operators can i n i t i a' t e a work request.
- 8 MR. LANNING
- : ~ What has boen your 9 ' experience with:getting thoso work. requests 10 completed?.
-11 MR. YOUNG: My, experience?.
It depends on 4
12 'the priority of the wor'k request.
() 13. M R .' ROSSI: Do you give a priority of a '
14 work request when you make one or does somebody 15 else assign the prio ri ty --to it?
16 MR. YOUNG: My foreman does or shift i !
~17 supervisor.-
- 18 MR. ROSS'I:. Your~ shift' supervisor" assigns
! 11 9 the priority of work requests?
20 M R . - Y O U N G':'- Yes.- ..
- 21- MR. LANNING
- Does your name go on-that 22 Lwork reques t ' a s ha'ving reque s ted 'i t?
i
~
123 MR. YOUNG:' ,Yes. ,
^
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115 1 done recently?
(~'i
'J 2 MR. YOUNG: Recently? Within the last 3 month, probably twenty.
4 MR. LANNING: Is that about an averaga 5 number per month, twenty?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
7 MR. LANNING: How many of those twenty a would you guesstimate have been acted on by 9 maintenance or whomevar is necessary to fultill 10 that work request?
11 MR. YOUNG: That would be hard to say.
12 ti R . LANNING: Let me ask --
,- m a
, ) 13 MR. YOUNG: I get no real response on 14 whan I turn work requests in. I may' gat out of a 15 hundred that I write, 5 parcent or five or them 16 have been returned from the enginaer, 17 acknowledgment of some sort.
18 MR. ROSSI: What happens to the other 957 19 Are they carried out or do they decide not to do 20 them or --
21 MR. YOUNG: That I do not know fully. It
-22 may be they are working on FCRs for tnam.
- 23. MR. BEARD: FCR would be what?
I 7~s 24 MR. YOUNG: Field change request.
N/
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116 1 MR. BEARD: That's like a design change?
lC 10 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Work is in progress 3 still, engineer neglected to turn an answer on it.
~4 MR. LANNING: Do you recall sny specific 5' . problems tnat you had identified in the plant that 6 have come back to mind subsequent to your '
i e
f7 submitting the work request and you have asked 8 yourself, Hey, I put a work request in, wny naan't i
9 Li t been down? i
, 10 -MR. YOUNG: No, not offhand I can't ~ think i
11- of any.
~
I 12 MR. LANNING: O k a y .-. [
!( 13 MR. ROSSI: Well, the 5 percent tnat you 14 get back results on work request, you get the worKL
?
15 request' back . indica ting the disposition'of it or -
4
-16 what they have done or what?'
t i 17 MR. YOUNG: Yes.- Whether there has been 18 - anEFCR issued, or they will say this MWO number has 19 been written on it, some MWO, maintenance work 20 order with a number behind it, they are. working ~on 21 it,=so I can track it.if I c h o o s e J t'o .
- 2 2J MR. BEARD: So'that of the 5 percent 23 roughly you1 hear back on, the-nearback may only 24 . mean, Okay, we have assigned a priority and wa have ACE FEDERAL' REPORTERS-INC.
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1' l j.
11'7 1 told the people to go' work on it as contrasted to l
) 2 the work tha t's complete?
}i 3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
- 4 MR. BEARD
- Okay. While Wayne is looking
+
5 for his next question, let me ask you a different 6 one. I was particularly intrigued with --
maybe
+
7 intrigued is a poor choice of words. I was ,
i i 8 particularly interested in the description of'the 9- activities you went through to this event.
10 You were very busy.. You were-trying to ,
11 do a number of important tnings simultaneously 12 and I think at one point, I nave forgotten both manipul tions, you had both hands-busy _ and you
'( ) 13
- 14. -actually.had litted up your' knee to'use it on one 15 of-the controls. I think.it was on the governor?
16 MR. YOUNG:- No. 1 aux fee'd-governor 17 . pistol grip.
18 MR. BEARD:. I'mLmentioning this in point 19 of view on-reflection, 'do you think the event ~or 20~ 'you,would have been substantially assisted or nsaded-21' an additional = person in there like-yourself for 22 assistance? I don't mean -tha t' it jus t would have 23 been nice. -To do'it rignt, you ougnt to have had 24 another man?
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I 118 l
- 1. MR. YOUNG: For that ovent, yes.
2 MR. BEARD: For this particular event?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: I realize overybody wno was 5 at the site at that moment was vary busy.
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
7 MR. BELL: Can you see the SPDS display 8 from your sta tion?
9 MR. YOUNG: It was behind me at that time.
10 Along with the TSat meters.
11 MR. BELL: Was it working?
12 MR. YOUNG: The SPDS, one monitor was not (m working at all, the other monitor had gsrbage on it.
() 13 14 MR. BELL: Would those two monitors have 15 helped you during the event had they been operable?
16 MR. YOUNG: I believe for myself, tnings 17 were happening too-fast for me to use them la effectively. I could not tell you if it would have 19 been even any help to Ted Lehman or the.othar RO.
20 MR. BEARD: That would be speculation on 21 your part at any rate?
22 MR. YOUNG: Yus, it would.
23 MR. ROSSI: Could-we go off the record a f 24 minute?
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119 1 (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
,\
%] 2 - - - - -
3 4
~5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 i
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
,c. 24
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l 120 ' ;
1 Thursday Afternoon Session f
1-June 13, 1985 2
3 12:30 o' clock p.m.
4 - - - - -
5 MR. LANNING: I would like to discuss 6 what alternate approacnes were available to you to 7 restore feedwater of any kind. For example, could.
8 you have; performed any actions to recover the main 9 feedwater' pumps?
, 10. MR. YOUNG: Yes, there was. At that time, 11 'there was an operator that I knew of that was down 12 at the boiler getting that brought up to pressure. ,
() -13 We could nave lined up aux steam to our main pumps 14 'at that time if the aux steam pumps efforts failed.
15 I nad b'a e n considering that~ and I was' going to 16 :suggest that if those' aux feedpumps did fail and we 17 could not-get-them'to s tay on line.. ;
18 MR. .ROSSI: What sort of t'i m e frame.would 19 tnat nave taken?
20 MR. YOUNG: Once=the boiler was on up . to
- 21 ' pressure.
l . 22 MR. ROSSI: Well, including getting the l.
23 boiler up.to pressura, I guess, after you actually. t l
24 ;sent somebody-there toEstart that whole process,.
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121
- 1. roughly what time would it have' taxon?
(%
^w/ I cannot give you -- I nadn't 2 MR. YOUNG:.
3 been able to look at the header pressure of the aux 4 steam system, which I did not know at that time, to 5 give you a botter estimata, but apparently tne guy 6 at the boiler was working on it. But as to how.far ;
7 it was up, I could not tell you, and the fact tnat 8 to get the feedpump on itself would have only taken 9 a matter of_ opening up two~ valves.
10 MR. LANNING: After the auxiliary boiler --
'll MR. YOUNG: No, my mistake. I forgot, we 12- .had lost 1 vacuum at that time. It'would have been
'() 13 . considerable timo.- My m'i s t a k e . Tne fact we had 14 lost = vacuum, .to regain. vacuum you would nava nad-15 gone through quito an evolution,-and there would 16 .have.been considerable. time frame.
17 MR. BELL: You are' talking in excess of
~18 one hour probably, a ren t you?-
~19 MR. YOUNG: Y e s '.
, '20 MR. BEARD: :That was based,.in other
,21 words, if-Isunderstand the way you are' putting it, 22 ifiwe talked about the time from which the aux z23 boilor~is ready to wnen you could.put_the_ main feed 24 on, i t t. w o u l d '. h a v e_' b e e n ' a' v e r y brief period of time, ACE FEDERAL-REPORTERS INC.
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122 1 I gather, if vacuun was still available. But p
\- 2 because tne decision had been made to break vacuum 3 and therefore it was no longer available, tnere 4 would be some assessment --
5 MR. YOUNG: Thors are still other options 6 with the main feedpumps. We can reset tnem without 7 vacuum. .. o still had circ water flow available to 8 cool tha condensor. It would have been quite an 9 effort and would have been quita an evolution to do 10 it that way and would have been taking a cnance, 11 but ' hat was also possible if we deemed it 12 necessary.
() 13 MR. BEARD: Do you navs a feel for what 14 sort of time wculd have been involved in that sort 15 of approach?
16 MR. YOUNG: It was just a matter of me 17 hitting a button to block tha vacuum trip and la resetting the turbine and opening up the or the 19 local operator opening up tne steam supply once the 20 boiler was available.
21 MR. BEARD: So you are still talning a 22 few minutes after the boiler was availabic?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes. That would be a s 24 decision made not by me, though.
\
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123 ,
$- 1 MR. BEARD: I' understand.
2 MR. ROSSI: The boiler, is unis s o m re t n i n g 3 that was -- I mean, could you give us a little mora i 4 description of the boiler? Like wnat was its-I 5 status before the event ever started,.or do you
! 6 . know?
v.
I 7 MR. . YOUNG: The sta tus of it was it was
'8- being banked at that time.
9 MR. ROSSI: Before the event? s 10 MR. YOUNG:. .Yes. That there was quite a
.11 few controls'and gauges down there not operable.
I i
12 It would have made-it very difticult ~ to operate, s.
() 13 but it wasLstill operable.
14 MR. BEARD:. .So in this!particular i
! 15 situation, it would have taken a little time to-get i
i.i 16 the boiler-up? ;
I cannot~make tha t -estima tion 17 MR. YOUNG:
i i
- 18 with anyLRind of -- how'do you.put it? To be sure ,
I.
I 19 that it was an a ccura te .e s tima te , I cannot.make l 20 that.
t
! 21 MR. BEARD: .I d o n '. t ' t h i n k we'are.trying 22 - to-pin you down forLan= accurate' estimate, Brian..
.I
! 23 .think we are'trying'to get some feel $. Are we talking 24 a f ew- minutes , - are we talking something an' hour;or I -
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124 1 longer?
tm l
(d
' 2 MR. YOUNG: I couldn't avon tell you that, 3 because I did not Know the extent of the other 4 service.
5 MR. BELL: When you regain vacuum, did 6 you usa-the auxiliary turbine to seal the turbine 7 and driva the air ejectors?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
9 MR. BELL: So it was fired then?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. BEARD: But the vacuum was not 12 regained for many hours afterwards.
() 13 MR. BELL: I realiza that, but that means 14 to me tnat the auxiliary boiler was capabla of 15 being used.
16 MR. ROSSI: What's the source of fuel for 17 the aux boilcr?
18 MR. YOUNG: It's the tuel oil.
19 MR. ROSSI: Fuel oil?
20 MR. YOUNG: Another case in point was tha 21 aux boilar was brought on -- brought up, and I 22 don't know --
I can't remember what time frama it 23 was brought up. I beliave it was after we had
-3 24 stabilized. But wa didn't have enough loads at I N.)
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125 1 that time to maintain it on the header because wa
, - ,I s' didn't nave the personnel there available at the 2
3 time, because the aux feedpump was running down 4 there and then nave One personnel available to put 5 vacuum back in service.
6 MR. LANNING: Is it. practical to nave 7 opened the Main Steam Isolation Valves?
8 MR. YOUNG: Practical? At that tima?
9 You could have opened up tho MSIVs.
10 MR. LANNING: That would navo given steam 11 motive powar to the main foodwater pumps.
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes. I hava got to make sure
()
/%
13 I thinx of all the possibilities.
14 MR. ROSSI: Let me point one thing out.
15 At the time we are talking whero-they didn' t have 16 any food to the steam ganerators, they.were very 17 near to empty anyway. So, you know, opening up the 18 main steamline isolation valvos may not nave gotton 19 you the main feedwater pumps back if tna steam 20 generators were essentially empty at that point.
i 21 MR. YOUNG: But another case in point, it 22 taxes over a half nour to equalize pressure around 23 them.
, s. 24 MR. LANNING: Tha t's what I was getting
()
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126 1 at. So really it would have taken at least a half p
/ 2 an hour to open those MSIVs if tacre was adoquato 3 steam available to drive the pumps?
4 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
5 MR. BEARD: Brian, in the follow-up after 6 the avent, did you become aware of any subsequent 7 damage to other plant equipment turther down the 8 road?
9 MR. YOUNG: I believe what you are trying 10 to get at is the turbine bypass valves; correct?
11 Thare was a water slug that hit that. We heard it 12 quite well when we opened up the MSIVs.
13 MR. BEARD: Do you recall tha time frame?
(G) 14 MR. YOUNG: That was a f ter we had 15 established vacuum. I would say that occurred 16 right about 7:00 -- 6:30, 7:00 in the morning.
17 MR. BEARD: 6:30 or 7:00. So you are 18 talking about five hours or mora after tna stirt of 19 the event?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. ROSSI: But you did haar this water 22 slug when you opened the MSIVs?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
ry 24 MR. BEARD: Does the effect of the damaga
()
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127 1: to that valve, did that have any bearing on the ,
~
2 safet'y of the plant at that point in time? l 3 MR. YOUNG: No. The only thing that 4 happened was the atmospheric vent valve had reopened.
5 MR. BEARD: Because of the failure?
~6- MR. YOUNG: Yes. ,
7 MR. BEARD: Okay. So the atmospheric 8 dump; popped one more. time. I'm just trying to get
~
9 - frqm an operator's perspective somo assessment'of 10~ - tne significance o'f that. failure. I get ~ t h e' teeling
- 11 maybe~it happened, yes, there's going to be plant ;
12 damage, yes, it's going to nave to~ be repaired, but
[ l() ~ 13 ' from.a s a'f e ty viewpoint it: might not be very 14 signi fican t?
15 MR.; YOUNG: No._ It was not very i -!
~
l 16 significant becausa of the fact that.the i
' 17 atmospheric ~ vent valve did' respond'and it was i la quickly. caught.- It had just popped 1and I took
. , a
'19 'm a n u a ll- control of-it and brought header pressure 20 down. l I
2 1~ M'R . BEARD:- If you.. exclude . just for a f 22 - moment this' turbine bypass valve we just' spoke of,
! 2 3~ would you characterize.the.rost of the cool down= ,
a 124 . process -- i~n other words,.that would be the tirst E
L lO.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.. [
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128 1 half hour or so into the event for the next say six
,O
\~/ 2 to eight hours -- as relatively normal?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay.
5 MR. YOUNG: It wss.
6 MR. BEARD: So the event was basically 7 over thirty minutes or an hour into it?
8 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay. I believe or it's my 10 understanding tnat the B & W owners group, all the 11 owners, got togather and developed wha t's called 12 ATOG, Anticipated Transient, what is it, Operators
( 13 Guidance?
14 MR. BELL: Operational.
15 MR. BEARD: Operational Guidance, and 15 after tnat generic guidance was developed, your 17 company developed procedures which would be 18 appropriata for local impleme n ta ti on at this 19 particular plant. Are you f amilia r with what I'm 20 referring to?
22 MR. dEARD: That's.your numbar for it?
23 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
24 MR. BEARD: If I. refer to it as the ATOP (s)
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129 1 or ATOG, would that be what you are talking about?
2 MR. YOUNG: Emergency procedure would be 3 adequate.
4 MR. BEARD: I understand you only have 5 one emergency procedure at this plant?
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
7 MR. BEARD: Is that the red book we saw, 8 like a three-ring binder tnat was two to throo 9 incnes tnick?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
11 MR. BEARD: Okay. Because I did see one
, 12 around here, and I just wanted to state for tha
() 13 record it's one proceduro, but it's still two.or 14 three inches thick. -It's a looseleaf binder?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. BEARD: So it's voluminous.
17 MR. BURNS: I think the number may be 18 1202.01?
19 MR. YOUNG: 1202.01.
20 MR. BEARD: 1202.01, right.
21 In your assessment with these proceduras 22 in mind, would you feel like tha t the control room 23 staff, not just you, but the other operator, in
,r 3 24 other words, the way tne control room was run, t \
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i 130 1 would you say that that was in line with the p
\' 2 procedures, or do you have any idaa of any 3 deviations, no matter how significant or major 4 deviations? I'm just trying to got an assessment.
5 MR. YOUNG: Okay. The proceduce when it 6 was originally brought out during the initial steps 7 or initial phasos of the transient, it was -- we 8 were going through the supplementary actions, you 9 xnow. It was in my opinion a very good aid, 10 because once we got to the overheating transient 11 part of it, we ware able to -- right at that point 12 is when wo started to get into trouble and realized
() 13 that something was amiss.
14 MR. BEARD: Could you give me an example?
15 I'm not sure what you are you referring to.
16 MR. YOUNG: Like not rignt away we woro 17 able to determine that the MSIVs went closed or we 18 nad no -- we had no reason to believo that the MSIVs 19 went closed until the pump speed s ta rted 20 decreasing --
21 MR. BEARD: Okay.
22 MR. YOUNG:- --
then on the No. 2 main 23 feedpump.
73 24 At that time is when we got into tho
()
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131 1 overheating t ra n sie n t aspect of it, and we want .
ps.,
kl 2 right to it.
3 MR. BEARD: Right to the emergency 4 procedure, you mean?
5 MR. YOUNG: In the emargency procedura.
6 There has a direction to a section at overnaating.
7 MR. BEARD: Right.
3 MR. YOUNG: Bacause when Steve Fcasel had 9 stoppad at tnat point, tha t's when ha started doing 10 otner things, and then we wont bacK to tnat step.
11 And we did have that occurring becausa we had both 12 aux feedpumps tripped, and we want to that section rm.
q) 13 and determined tha t 601 I think it is or whatever 14 section it is to determine if you have availability 15 of main feader or aux feed.
16 MR. BEARD: So I guess I hear you saying 17 a couple things. One is the procedura as a 18 document was very useful, and I think I.near you 19 saying that generally the procedure was followed?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. BEARD: Okay. I'm concerned -- and 22 the reason for bringing up tnis line of questioning 23 is with regard to the feed and bleed modo of es s 24 . cooling, as to --
I guess I should say th9
(
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132 1 proceduro doas include or does specify cartain
,\
( l
2 plant conditions for wnich wnan you reach those 3 trigger values, as I said earlier, the procadures 4 would direct you to enter tne teed and blood moda?
5 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
6 MR. BEARD: So that we understand. Okay.
7 But during this event that did not occur.
8 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
9 MR. BEARD: You did not enter tnat. I'm 10 trying to come to grips with why. And one of the 11 possibilities is for the condition the plant was in, 12 mayba that was not the a p p r o p r i'a t o way. to go; okay?
() 13 That's a possibility. But I'm trying to understand 14 why it didn't happan.
15 MR. YOUNG: I guess it would be best put 16 by saying that we are right at the point of going 17 on HPI PORV cooling. Like I had statad earliar, 1 18 nad told Tod Lehman tnat we better be ready to go 13 on HPI PORV cooling. Th was up to 590.
20 And then it was at that time the startup 21 fasdpump became available and we started fooding it 22 . with startup f1edwa ter for the No. I steam 23 generator. At that point, I had to start working 7s 24 with the aux feedpumps, and-so I was not able to k]
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133 1 say whether, you know, what decisions ware made on
/q kJ 2 rne primary side at that point.
'3 MR. BSARD: Oxay. Well, the dacision to 4 start that toad and bloed, as I call it, or manoup 5 PORY made as it's baan callad, that would nave been 6 made by the snitt supervisor at any rate. This was 7 not a decision that an operator would maxa on his 8 own?
9 MR. YOUNG: That would not be my decision.
10 MR. BSARD: Okay. Help me undarstand 11 your procedures a little bit. If you are in a 12 position wnere you have reacned trigger values, as
(_) 13' -I called them, you should do certain actions in 14 your procedures, but you basically nave an 15 alternative or alternate arises, which in this case 16 would be tne operation of tne electric startup 17 feedpump. From a procedural viawpoint, does that 18 allow you not to comply or trom a procedural 19 viawpoint does the procedure say you ought to go 20 anead and comply with what the procedures say?
21 MR. YOUNG: I believe it says to my best 22 knowledge that if aux f eedwa te r is not attained, 23 then you only have startup feedwater, you would 24 nave to go on PORV cooling, HPI PORV cooling.
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134 1 MR. BEARD: Are you saying tnat the
2 proceduras say even with tne startup pump running, 3 you would still be -- the procedures would direct 4 you toward the PORY cooling?
5 MR. YOUNG: I can't stato that for a fact.
6 MR. BEARD: I'm not, you Know --
we are 7 just talking about your memory or it, which may bo 8 wrong. It could be inaccurate, uut your memory is 9 even with that pump running, procedures would have 10 directed you to it?
11 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
12 3R. BEARD: Do you remember the general (qj 13 things that are in that emergency proceduro? For 14 example, the going to the feed and bleed mode, as I 15 call it, general major enaracteristics et your 16 emsegency procedure, lot me just datine it that way 17 for a moment.
18 MR. YOUNG: Excuse me? Could'you repeat 19 tnat?
20 MR. BEARD: On this amorgency procedure, 21 the ATOG typo considerations, the entry to the feed 22 and blood mode is what I would characterize or 23 choose to charactorize right now au the major part 73 24 of the emergency procadures. That would be a major
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135 1 activity, a significant activity?
( l
'/ 2 MR. YOUNG: A significant activity, yes.
3 MR. dEARD: OKay. Do you remember any 4 other significant activitias that are in the 5 emergency procedures tna t for one reason or another 6 did not occur, maybe because of alternatives or the 7 uniqueness of tne plant situation, but the general 3 thrust of the question is was there anything else, 9 a comparable level of activity that it was decided 10 not to do or didn' t occur?
11 MR. YOUNG: I can't think of any orfnand.
12 MR. BEARD: Okay. So if that's the case,
[) 13 then would it be a reasonable summary than to say v
14 the ATOG-typa procedures wore genarally complied 15 with? And I'm not concerned about minor daviations, 16 but generally complied with with the one possible 17 question about the feed and bleed or PORV mode of 18 cooling? Would that be a fair summary? I'm just 19 saying tha t's a question area. I'm not saying 20 that's wrong or right. I'm saying tha t's tho 21 question area?
22 MR. YOUNG: Sea, now, again, I cannot 23 second guess what occurred there, f3 24 MR. BEARD: I'm not asking you to N)
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136 1 second guess. I'm saying you are a reactor
, ,)
'~> 2 operator, you have experience behind you, you have 3 training behind you, and you Know this plant and 4 you know what happened during this event?
5 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
6 MR. BEARD: I'm just asking for an 7 overall assessment as to would you agree that a 8 proper assessment might be that the'ATOG-type 9 , emergency procedures would be generally followed 10 with the ono question area of tha feed and bleed 11 mode of cooling?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
( j'
~
13 MR. BEARD: I'm not asking d e ta 12. s at all.
14 MR. YOUNG: But there is also -- there 15 was a hard determination on how close you were to 16 that step.
17 MR. BEARD: This is related to feed and 18 bleed?
19 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
20 MR. BEARD: Yes.
21 MR. YOUNG: To that trigger spot.
22 HR. BEARD: I'm not.trying to pin you 23 down at all. I'm trying to set that there is one em 24 area we may want to explore more, but there are not
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.e, , 137 4
- 1. Otner; areas?
-2 MR. YOUNG: That is correct..
L 1
- =3 MR. BEARD: Thank you very'much.
4 MR. BELL: -You= stated [that Steve was reading t' ,
{ 5 this. procedure to you?
.6 MR. YOUNG: Yes. ,
t 7' MR. BJRNS: IThat's Steve Feassl?
8 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
9 -
MR. BELL: .Yes,. excuse me.
S. ..
il(T MR. BEARD: ,
That was :the supplementa ry 4
!.11 - -actions, I belihve..
3 12 MR .. ' BELL : OrLwas he using the flow chart
, 13. that'is in~the back of the supplementary actions?
7 14 MR. YOUNG:' I-did not-turn around to-look.- ,
15 All'I heard was his. Voice calling out steps, and I.
t i 16 answered yes or'~no.ifithey were on my side of the J
< 17 cboard; or if I-heardino answer, I'gave an answer
- la f o r,. the o the r. . side . l
~
19 MR. ' B E L L :- .And as'a r3sult.ofJusing-these-l 20 supplementary. actions, you were directed to the.
2 1' overheating. tab' offthe procedure t h'a t ' s1. n u m b e r e d 122 EP 1202.017-
'23 -
11R . ' YOUNG : Yes.. ,
24 . MR.' BELL:- .When-you got . to that ta b ,. you.
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138 1 took appropriate actions as outlined in that
' 2 section?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BELL: With tne one possible 5 exception that JT.-- one possible question araa 6 that JT has brougnt up?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. BELL: OKay. Thank you very much.
'9 MR. LANNING: Since the accident at Three 10 Mile Island, do.you xnow of any changas that nave 11 been made to tne aux feedwater system hare at 12 Davis-Bessa?
IV J 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes. There has been an 14 attempt to aliminate as many valves as possible 15 tnat are closed between the aux teadpumps steam 16 side and feedwater side. They opened.up a pump 17 discharge valve tha t's directly on the discharge of 18 the pump.- They made that an opon valve instead of 19 an auto open valve at twenty-eight hundred rpm.
20 MR. BELL: Is tnis 599 or 608?
21 MR. YOUNG: No, it is not.
. 22 MR. LANNING: I t's anothJr valve?.-
23 MR. YOUNG: No.
f.s 24 MR. LANNING: Go ahead.
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139 1 MR. YOUNG: Any other changes to the aux
( ,1
s' 2 feedwater? Otner than when I came to the company, 3 that's the only other change I have -- o' have 4 really any knowledge of.
5 MR. LANNING: In other words, they havu 6 changed the design of the aux f eedwa tar systam to 7 reduce the number of valves that must open to 8 actuata aux feedwater system?
9 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Tna t's tna only thing I 10 as aware ot. As I said, I came there in '30, fivo 11 years ago. And what they did bafore that or up to 12 probably a year that I was there I would not have
( ) 13 beon aware of.
14 MR. L A N .4 I N G : OKay.
15 MR. BEARD: Are you througn with that 16 topic, Wayne?
17 I would like to follow up on'the same 18 subject of TMI improvements. Are you familiar 19 generally with the types of improvements that wara 20 implemen te d at most of the plants for TMI-type 21 fixes, such things as the sa tura tion meters?
22 MR. YOUNG: TSat metars, yes. And what 23 do you call them, at our plant the SPDS system.
es 24 MR. BEARD: There were a number of them; k
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140 l' right? As a rasult of this event, do you remember
()%~' 2 anything that was particularly helpful of those 3 improvements?
4 Let me give you an example of what I am 5 saying. Maybe it's tne otner operator instead at 6 you, but maybe you found tne TSat metar was very 7 handy and very useful and that made the situation 8 go botter? That's the kind of thing I'm asKing 9 about.
10 MR. YOUNG: For myself, it was not very 11 handy to use for myselt. For the other oporators, 12 it I was standing ovar there, it would have been
() 13 very nelpful knowing, not having to plot out on s 14 saturation curve exactly whera I was on it.
15 MR. BEARD: I didn't mean to focus you on 16 that particular improvement. I'm saying of the 17 TMI-type improvements, do you remember .snything 18 that was a TMI-type improvement you found useful, 19 made things go better or easier for you?
20 MR. YOUNG: I'm trying to thinx of all 21 the TMI improvements that I Know ot. Other than 22 the ATOG procedure, I cannot say that the post-TMI 23 improvements that I am aware of were of any graater f%
24 advantage or any advantage to.me.
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141 1 MR. BEARD: Were there any that you can
/^\
\J 2 remember tnat were a particular danger or made it 3 more awkward?
4 MR. YOUNG: No.
5 MR. BEARD: Okay. I have to admit tha t's 6 a tough' question because you have to scan in your
-7 mind what were all tha TMI improvements and tha t's S not a small chore; it's a difficult question.
9 But one of the things tnat I remember as 10 a TMI improvement was upgrades in tne operator's 11 training, particularly with regard to transients.
12 And I'm wondering if -- you went through that kind
( ) 13 ot training, didn't you, transient drills, casualty 14 drills, whatever you want to call them?
15 MR. YOUNG: I was post-TMI trained.
16 MR. BEARD: So you went through them?
17 MR. YOUNG: I went through them. And I 18 was not aware et any difference from preTMI, so I 19 could not make a judgment on that.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay. What I'm trying to 21 focus on or get toward is in your casualty drills 22 on the simulator -- did you have training or 23 complete loss of feedwater transients?
es 24 'MR. YOUNG: Yes, I did.
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142-
-l MR. BEARD: You went through some of (m
\- 2 those?
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay. Did you find that 5 going through that training assisted you in this 6 particular ovent?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes, I did feel it was very 8 helpful that the simulator itself -- but tharo 9 is a lot of things that could have baan of greater 10 advantage I teel if we had a more plant spacific 11 simulator.
12 MR. BEARD: You went tnrough at Lyncnburg?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yos.
14 MR. BEARD: Okay. In tnis particular 15 event, just in a general sense, how would you 16 compare or contrast.the event you went through here 17 at tnis plant with the loss of teedwater transients la casualty drills you went through.in'the Lynchburg 19 simulator?' Woro they quite similar, generally the 20 sama but a lot of ditferencos, or just not similar 21 at all? Or how would you characterize that?
22 MR. YOUNG: Okay. As far as actual 23 equipment, working'with an aux feed pump of our eS 24 type, it was not very usetul. Even tripping an N.)
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143 1 SFRCS system is not, you know -- I had absolutely k# 2 no training or simulated training on that.
3 MR. BEARD: Your SFRCS system is 4 significantly different from the one simulator in 5 terms of the buttons you would use and indications 6 it provides and things of that natura?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes. But as far as actually 8 seeing with the indications and being able to --
9 the way I approach it is to think it through as to 10 what would happen at our --
at Davis-Basse. It was 11 very helpful being able to soe things move and ba 12 able to picture in my mind what would bo happening
[)'
w 13 with our equipment at each particular step.
14 MR. BEARD: OKay. So it was helpful?
15 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
16 MR. BEARD: . Do you think that tho
-17 transient that you folks just went through was very 18 closely simula ted in your training or it was quite 19 different?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes, it was very closely 21 simulated.
22 MR. BEARD: Okay. With regard to the 23 total number of failures that the plant experienced 24 or malfunctions of equipmont, depending on who does 7-)s
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144 1 the counting, one could come up that you had a
~
( 'I 2 transient initiator and maybe tourteen or fifteen 3 complicating occurrences, such as the tripping of 4 both aux teedpumps, you Know. Did you ever have 5 casualty training with that number or maltunctions 6 involved, a number greater than ten?
7 MR. YOUNG: I could not tell you and be 8 positive of an answer like that. At the simulator, 9 they put multiple tailuras on you at times as well 10 as single failures.
11 MR. dBARD: Woro there multiple failures 12 usually in the two or three tailure category or 13 were they like a dozon?
(( )
14 MR. YOUNG: I could not tell you. My 15 memory would not be able to recall that.
16 MR. B E ARD :- So it sounds like in summary 17 along the line at TMI improvements as it relates to 18 this event, some of the things like the SPDS would 19 probably nat have been of great value in the hasto 20 of the things coming down, I think you said oarlier?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. BEARD: Some of them were not in your 23 jurisdiction. It sounds lixo what you are saying,
, 24 the training on transients was probably halptul?
( ,}
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145 1 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
. ,e \
t !
's 2 MR. BEARD: Okay.
3 MR. LANNING: Do the operators stay with 4 the same shift? How long hava you been with Ted
'S Lehman's shift?
6 MR. YOUNG: I have always b3on on that 7 shift since I came with the company. I was not 8 always under the sama foreman, but basically the 9 same shift.
10 MR. LANNING: Now, now many operators are 11 on this shift?
12 MR. YOUNG: Total ot ninc or, excuse me,
(( ) 13 yeah, nine operators.
14 MR. LANNING: Now, has most of those nine 15 operators bean on this shift since you have?
16 MR. YOUNG: I think the least sanior man 17 is tnroo years.
18 MR. LANNING: My question is has this --
19 have thase nine people been togather as a group for 20 a long period of time?
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
22 MR. LANNING: At least three years you 23 are saying?
7- 24 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
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146 1 MR. LANNING' Aro you guys pretty f)
's > successful at maintaining the unit on line?
2_
3 MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir. Oursolves, yas.
4 MR. LANNING: Has there been much 5 opportunity or has thera been many reactor trips on 6 your shitt?
7 MR. YOUNG: No, not very many on our 8 snitt. I nave been involved in ono trip on another 9 shift and only three on our shift.
10 MR. LANNING: So in tivo years, this
, 11 shift nas experienced only tour reactor trips?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes, f')
v 13 MR. ROSSI: Let me see. You said you had 14 been involved on one trip on anotner shift and
! 15 tnree'on this shitt.
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. ROSSI: So this shift has been 18 involved in tnree.
19 MR. YOUNG: Three actually.
20 MR. LANNING: But it's the same people?
21 MR. YOUNG: No. We ware split. Wo were 22 not really split, but there was lixo two operators 23 from my shift working on another shift to cover fw 24 manning because of people being ott for vacation.
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147 1 MR. LANNING: OKay.
c')
2 MR. ROSSI: Tha t's tha forth trip I think 3 he was talking about.
4 MR. YOUNG: ,In actuality, my shift alono 5 nas only been involved in three trips.
6 MR. ROSSI: Over what time period?
7 MR. YOUNG: Five years. But during that a fiva years, I was in training for a year and a half.
9 MR. L A t4 N I N G : So how .n a n ', trips nave you 10 gone through that you havo been s ta tioned at the 11 secondary panal?
12 MR. YOUNG: That was my tirst one.
() 13 MR. L A N t41NG : First one, okay.
14 MR. ROSSI: li o w many -- you had nina 15 oporators on your shift?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. ROSSI: Wera all nine of those in the 13 control room on -- during this evont?
19 MR. YOUNG: No.
20 MR. ROSSI: lio w many of them were in the 21 control room on this avent?
22 MR. YOUNG: Immodiately at the start ot 23 the events, all tour senior liconses and three of gs 24 tha equipment operators.
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148 1 MR. BELL: Excusa me. I didn't hear.
x- 2 All four?
3 MR. YOUNG: Licensees.
4 MR. ROSSI: And that includes the shift 5 supervisor. So there were four licenses and three 6 equipmant oparators at the start of the evont?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. ROSSI: And were there -- where are 9 the other two out of the ninc?
10 MR. YOUNG: That I do not Know. I didn't 11 know at that time. I do know tney were only a
. 12 phona call away on the Gaitronics.
() 13 IIR . ROSSI: Both of them?
14 MR. BURNS: They were the two other 15 equipment oparators?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yus.
17 MR. ROSSI: The other two, the two other 18 squipment operators, then they toon part in actions i
19 associstod with the ovent?
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
21 MR. ROSSI: Otf the racord.
22 (Discussion held off the record.)
23 MR. ROSSI: Back on the record.
24 MR. BEARD: ll o w about if I ask .ny last 7-l V l ACE FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. '
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149 1 question, Brian? For this particular question, if (r) v 2 you choose to havo your supervisor leave the room, 3 we can ask him to, I'm sure. I just have a general 4 qucation.
5 Is there anything about this event or 6 about your shift or anytning that occurrad th3t you 7 would like to tell us of any nature whatsoever? It 8 could be from equipment problama, poople problems, 9 morala problems, anything that you think you would 10 like for us to know. If it would mane you teel 11 more comfortablo, I'm sure --
12 MR. SIMON: I can leav2.
() 13 MR. YOUNG: No, that's fino.
14 As far as our shirt goes, I thinn the 15 oquipment operators did the best job I have over 16 soon a group or equipmont operators do. Their 17 speed at doing tnese things was unbeliovable, la Stavo Foasol, he did a superb job. It 19 was through his afterts alone that we got the 20 s ta r tup toedpump available so quickly.
21 Tod Lohman, he was very helpful. 160 mido 22 good decisions, ne mado quick and propar decisions.
23 tie aidud in ovorview also.
24 Rick Walleman, the other equipment
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150 1 operator or, excuse ma, the other RO did an l')
\~' ~2 excellent job. He knew axactly what to do and no 3 did it right.
4 Through the transient, everybody 5 performed beautifully togetner. You Know, not to 6 toot my own norn, but it was like clockwork.
7 As far as moralo goes on the sbitt, I 8 don' t think it was all that great, but ;ha t would 9 be my own personal opinion.
10 MR. ROSSI: Could you tell %s --
11 MR. YOUNG: I could not make a statement 12 for tne wnolo plant, just for myself.
() 13 MR. BEARD: Is there anything besides the 14 morale aspects? I thinx that thore are a lot of 15 indications-that people who were on snitt this 16 night really did a lot of good things fast and 17 overybody was really going at it. Tha t's my own 18 personal vicw. Do you want to add something?
19 Tna t's what I was going to say.
20 MR. YOUNG: Yean. I think also with 21 Louis Simon snowing up so quickly afterwards, with 22 Bill O'Connor coming, it was great they showed up 23 so quickly, because they really nolped in eftorts 7-4 24 of getting the vacuum back and getting to a more
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151 1 stable, secure position at the plant.
()
\' 2 Steve Quonnoz showed up as well as Dicx 3 Crouse did. I think their ettorts were.vory 4 commendable.
5 MR. LANNING: Would you care to elaborate 6 on the potential morale problem? Is it just 7 specific to the shitt or is it plant wido or to 8 what extent and what's the primary reason?
9 MR. YOUNG: Plant morale? It would be my 10 own personal opinion, nobody's else to state this.
11 MR. LANNING: Tha t's fino.
12 MR. yo0NG: I w :'. i n k it was low.
() 13 MR. LANNING: Why do you thinx it was low?
14 MR. YOUNG: We are having hard times with 15 negotiations in tha contracts. I don't think that J
16 tact of the morale being low streets anybody's 17 abilities nor their willingness to do a job right.
18 I think that ovarybody that works there 19 are very professional. Thay know they have got a 20 Job to do, they do it honaatly and they do it 21 correct. The fact that n3gotiations are going 22 poorly between the company and the union, I don't 23 think they allow that to affect their job.
fs 24 To point out a case in point, you know,
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152 1 at one point they had First Aid brigade volunteer 3 A
"J 2 resign trom that position. When we had an injury 3 on-site, that didn't slow them down from being 4 thero. They still did their job, ano they did a 5 good job.
6 MR. ROSSI: The morale being low, is that 7 sometning that has occurred, lixa, recently? Could 3 you give a tima frame over wnich the low morale may 9 have existed, or is it lower now tnan it was a year 10 ago? Would you characterize that in some way?
11 MR. YOUNG: I would just say that it is 12 lower than it was a year ago.
() 13 MR. ROSSI: Lower tnan it was a year ago.
14 Ilo w about the general quality of 15 maintenanca work at the plant, maintenance worx 16 orders and keeping equipment in good repair? Could 17 you make any comments on your teelings on tnat?
18 MR. YOUNG:
Maintenance work orders, I do 19 not deal directly in those. Tne only thing i know 20 as far as maintenance work orders coming tnrough is 21 that the person that has it assigned to them shown 22 who writes it, reviews it, he sends them over to mu 23 to tell me what exactly they are doing. Tnat's tne 24 only involvement I hava in that procosa.
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153 1 And then I give --
I let tham know it's 2 okay or I'll say, Wait, let me discuss it with the 3 shift supervisor. That's the only thing I have 4 involvement in.
5 As far as equipment goes, there are somo 6 systems that do lack maintenance, but tha t's 7 because they are always doing maintenance on other
- 8 systems tnat may incur PMs, calibrations, otner 9 things.
i 10 MR. BEARD: Do you feel there are enough 11 maintenance people here to get the job dono in a 12 timely manner?
() 13 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
14 MR. ROSSI: You do feel there art enough?
15 Is that what you said?
16 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: Do you fo+1 they are used in 18 the priority that you foal as an operator is th?
19 appropriata priority?
20 - MR. YOUNG: I don't think I hsvo a right 21 to say that because I do not xnow all the details 22 that go on.
23 f1R . BEARD: Wall, I appreciate where you 24 are c c.n i n g from, Brian. I am only suxing for your ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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1 154 1 personal view as an RO, bacausa ycu are the l I
'~/ 2 individual that would report troubles on tne 3 reactor systems. .
4 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
5 Ma. BEARD: And maintenanco people do a 6 lot of things trom repair actions for equipmunt 7 that's under your technical specitications or d repair actions tor other equipmant tnan's not under 9 technical specifications but still important to the 10 plant availability or whatever, equipment that is 11 nica to have fixed but no problem if it doesn't get 12 fixad right away, to things such as painting tne O 13 *1=or-14 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
15 MR. BEARD: And I guass I was trying to 16 solicit from you some ganaral assassment as a 17 reactor operator, your training and experience, do 13 you fael, it the company has enough ot them, that 19 tney are putting them to work on the right priority 20 in a sonsa, or are they out painting the hatches, 21 so to speak?
22 MR. YOUNG: I would say that they are not 23 using them as etfoctively, trom my point of view
/,q 24 only, as they could.
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155 1 MR. BEARD: This is your personal opinion, O
kJ 2 right. We are not asking you to judge tne company.
3 As a reactor operator, tha t's all.
4 MR. YOUNG: I only see a few of tno 5 de tails . And trom my point, from tnat viewpoint, I 6 can only say that they don't use tnem as 7 effectively as they can, t
8 MR. BEARD: 0Kay. Was thers anytning 9 clso you would like to tell us or you falt like we 10 needed to Know in terms of understanding what 11 happened during this transient or why it happenod?
12 MR. YOUNG: I think we pretty well went 13 througn a lot.
1
(])
14 MR. BEARD: Do you have any feelings on 15 tna actuation en tne low pressure, the Rupturo i
16 Control System, as to what tnat means in terms at 17 wny it happaned o r -- do you nave any comments you 13 would lixe to mako on that araa?
19 MR. YOUNG: Wny it happened? I knew what i 20 I winted to trip it on. I discussed it witn Ted Otner than-unfamiliarity with
-21 Lehman beforenand.
22 actually tripping those buttons, and duo to the 23 fact that tnero is otnoc -- there nave already baan 24 pointed out control room design orrors assoc 13tud
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166 1 with the fact they are so low on the panol and they
,g s l 2 navo such little lettaring.
3 I Knew what I wanted to trip it on, but 4 it just didn' t happen. And even a f ter I had 5 tripped it on tha wrong paramotor, I even thought 6 after tnat that I nad done it right until tnings 7 waran't looxing right, then right away we corrected 8 it. But it was alraady too late; tha pumps nad 9 already tripped.
10 MR. BEARD: Would you characterize it as, 11 wnat I might call it, just a pisin honest mistaxe?
12 MR. YOUNG: Yes. There was no intention
() 13 of tripping it on anything a l s :a but low lavel. Our 14 procedures stata that it you manually trip SFRCS, ,
15 it will be tripped on low levels. And as far as 16 affacting the foodwater, it had a baaring on 599 17 and 608, but as far as the aux feedpumps tripping, 13 I don't think it had a b23 ring at a11.
19 MR. BEARD: I moant, Brian, by the 20 question, what I meant was there was no -- it was 21 an honest error in the sanso there is an array of 22 buttons there to bo pushod, you went there knowing 23 which parameter you wanted it actuated on, you g~ 24 happened to nit a button vary similar to it and V
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157 1 very close in proximity, but you waron't lixo in a f
' 2 set-up situation tnat caused you to make tnat 3 mistake otner than things were hippaning pretty 4 fast at the plant, it was in the heat of battia, so 5 to speak, et cetara, et cetera, and it was just a 6 plain honast mistake?
7 MR. YOUNG: Yes.
8 MR. BEARD: Okay.
9 MR. ROSSI: Anybody have anything else?
10 MR. BURNS: I just want to asK a couple 11 questions. Brisn, in preparing for this interview, 12 did you discuss this intarview with anyone?
13 MR. YOUNG: Discuss this interview?
s
- 14 MR. BURNS
- Yoan, discuss what's going on 15 in this interviaw with anyone prior to the interview?
16 MR. YOUNG: I don't follow your train of 17 thought hare.
la MR. BURNS: Botore being interviewed, did 19 you discuss the interview or wnat would be happening 20 or what you should say with anyone?
21 MR. YOUNG: No.
22 MR. BURNS: For example, from the company 23 or --
- 24 MR. YOUNG: Other than I was told to bo
%J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
158 1 honest and, you know, try to do the best of your S
'- 2 knowledge to recall all the ovants and it you don't 3 know something, say you don't know. It was just be 4 truthful. That was the only thing laid to me.
5 MR. BURNS: Thanks.
6 MR. ROSSI: Anybody else nave anything?
7 MR. BEARD: I just would like to thank 8 Brian. I think he has be<an here for --
it's 1:25 9 now, we started this oxorcisa at 9:00 in the 10 morning, and no has been through a lot after 11 working an all-night shitt. And I thank you.
12 MR. ROSSI: Off the record now.
13 - - - - -
i 14 Thereupon, the interview was 15 concluded at 1:25 o' clock p.m.
16 - - - - -
l 17 3
18 19 20 21
- 22 23 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 l
l
159 1
,O
'J 2 CERTIFICATE 3 I, Nicholas Marrona, a Registured 4 Protessional Reporter and Notary Public in and for 5 ene State of Ohio, do horooy certity tnat 1 tooK 6 the atorementioned interview and that the forogoing 7 transcript of such proceedings is a tuli, true and 8 correct transcript of my stenotypy notes as ao 9 taken.
10 I do further cortify that I was called 11 there in the capacity of a Registered Professional 12 Roporter, and am not otherwise interested in this 13 proceeding.
(])
14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have horounto set 15 my hand and affixed my seal of ottice at Columbus, L __ Ly7 , day of _mjtaaxy,_
16 Ohio, on tnis , 1985.
17 ,
18 _ 'M __
NICHOLAS A. MARAONE, Registorod 19 Protessional Reporter, Notary Public in and for the Stato of Ohio.
20 21 My Commission axpires November 1, 1987.
22 I
l 23 l
,c 24 J
ACE PEDERAL RCPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
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