ML20129B049
| ML20129B049 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/17/1985 |
| From: | Burns C, Klein M, Meleg J, Morrison B TOLEDO EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290049 | |
| Download: ML20129B049 (151) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:- 1 1 BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE 2 0F Til E NUCLSAR REGULATORY CodMISSION 3 4 Re: S Davis-Bossa avent : 6 o t' June 9, 1935 : 7 3 - - - - - 9 INTERVIEW OF 10 C il R I S BURNS, JPFF M I; L E G , MARK KLEIN, 000 MORRISON 11 - - - - - 12 Interview or CildIS BURNS, JEFF MELEG, 5j - 13 MARK KLSIN and BGB MORRISON by the Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission Psct Finding I'a a n Force, 15 taken before me, Nicholas A. Marrone, s Rogistered 16 Protossioatl Reporter and N o t .s r y Public in snd for 17 tne Stati of Ohio, at Conterence Room 210, 16 Divio-Bossa Nuc1csr Plant, 0sx li s r b o r , Onio, on 19 Mond2y, Juna 17, 1935, c o m .n a n c i n g st 9:10 o' clock 20 a.m. 21 - - - - - 22 23 24 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 0507290049 050617 PDH ADOCK 05000346 T ppig
2 1 APPEARANCSS: 2 3 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commiscion 4 4340 East West liighwsy 5 usth>nds, Maryland 20d14 6 By Mr. Stephan uurns, 1 7 6 On bohalt of the C o ia m i s s i o n . 9 10 11 MEMDBRS OF Tit E TCAM: 12 m
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-> 13 dayne Linning 14 Larry uull
.5 J. T. Board lo Ernie aosat 17 13 19 ALSO PRdSBNTI 20 21 Ken .tiuer (TSD/ Logs 1 Servicas) 22 23 - - - - -
24 ACS FEDMRAL R U P O R T E R 'l INC. (202) 347-3700
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,_ 1 Monday Morning Session 2 June 17, 1935 3 9:10 o' clock a.m.
I l 4 _ _ _ _ _ r j 5 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we start with each 6 of you, and each of you tell us wha t your position 7 is now with Toledo Edison snd give us a little bit 8 of background on how long have you bean with the 9 company and so forth. And we will start with you, 10 Chris Burns. i l 11 CHRIS BURNS: OK4y. I started here in l 12 October of '92, and I am now an equipment operator, 13 E01. 14 MR. BEARD: Is sol is top or the ranks of 15 EOs? 16 CHRIS BURNS: I t's in the middio. It's AO, i 17 801, 802 and E03. 18 MR. ROSSI: Off the record. 19 (Discussion nold off the record.) 20 MR. ROSSI: B2ck on the record. 21 Whilo we were otf the record, tho 22 question wss esised as whether sny ot you wanted 23 Louis Simon particularly to sit in on the intervi2w, (} 24 and the record should show that the answor was ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 w _ ____ -__ _ __ __ _ ___ _ --____-__ _____ __.
4 7.~ 1 basically that you didn't care one way or the other, f u 2 so no is not sitting in. 3 The other question we nead to ask is nave 4 you asked Kan Mauer to be here? 5 BOB MORRISON: Yes, sir. 6 MR. ROSSI: Okay. You have. a sked him to 7 be here. 8 MR. BEARD: Could I ask a question? 9 STEPHEN BURNS: That was affirmativo. 10 Mr. Klein, you want Mr. Mauer to be here? 11 MARK KLEIN: Yes. 12 STEPHEN BURNS: And Mr. Meleg, you want (m ( m) 13 him to be and here? 14 JEFF MELEG: Yes. 15 STEPHEN BURNS: Chris, you want him to 16 be here? 17 CHRIS BURNS: Yos. 18 MR. BEARD: I want to know what kind of 19 position ha holds witn tne company. Is he an 20 engineer or licansing fellow or attorney? What is 21 his position? 22 MR. MAUER: I am currently working 23 between two areas, the environment department and 24 the legal services department. And I am not a (~J'l x ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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, _ , 1 licensed attorney; however I am representing the
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'J' 2 legal services department today since J. Silberg is 3 in Toledo as yet.
4 MR. BEARD: I see. Are you hera to 5 represent the company or here to represent thase 6 individuals? 7 MR. MAUER: I am representing Toledo 8 Edison and these individuals, if they so cnoose. 9 MR. BEARD: Have they indicated they 10 would like for you to represent them? 11 MR. MAUER: I think they just did that, 12 yes, sir. (D (J 13 MR. BEARD: Is my understanding -- 14 MR. ROSSI: They just answered that 15 quastion, I believe. Are you satisfied witn t .4 e 16 snswer to that question, Steve. 17 STEPHEN BURNS: I think tha record will 18 show they each indicated yes. 19 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So we were to the 20 point where Chris Burns had indicatad that he was 21 now an E01, equipment operator, and that you had 22 joined Toledo Edison in October of 1982. Do you 23 have any more to add to your background? 24 CHRIS BURNS: Before that, I was in the {} ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
B e r I. 1 Navy.for not quite seven years. {
.Y 2 MR. ROSSI:. Okay. Jeff-Meleg?
3 .~J E FF MELEG: Yes. 4 -MR..ROSSI: Why don't you go through the 1 5 same thing.- When did you join Toledo Edison and- ! 6 what is your position with the company now?
.7 JEFF MELEG: May 18th, 1982, is when I 8 first joined Toledo Edison, and I ' a m. also an 9 equipment operator one.- And I also was in the Navy 10 for six years as an operator, nuclear operator, and-11 I nave worked extensively with Babcock and Wilcox 12 in inservice' inspection, and I'have been a QAQC I 13 weld inspector'at the WPPS plant.and an operator 14 for Carolina Power and Light.
15 M R .- ROSSI: Were you ac tually -employed by 16 Babcock and Wilcox at one time? 17 JEFF MELEG: - Y e s .' 18 MR. BEARD: You say Carolina Power and 19 ' Light you were an operator. . You mean liconsed --
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20 JEFF MELEG: An auxiliaries opera tor 21 there'also.
-22 MR. BEARD: Okay.
23 MR. ROSSI:' ~ Mark Klein, could.you toll us 24 the same.information. ACE-FEDERAL' REPORTERS'INC. (202) 347-3700'
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( I 1 MARK'KLEIN: I started work October 20th,
~O- 19SO,-for Toledo Edison.
2 .I had six years Navy 3 -experience. Equipment operator three. 4 MR. ROSSI: That is a higher seniority 5 position? 6 MARK KLEIN: Right. It's called a. fully
'7 qualifiad. equipment operator, safety operator.
;j 8 BOB MORRISON: Bob Morrison, and I work, 9 I have been here nine years.and I'm a senior 10 equipment operator.
~ 11 MR. ROSSI: Senior equipment operator.
12 MR. BEARD: Is ~that EO37 13 BOB MORRISON: It's one step-ahead of. 14 that. 15 MR. BEARD: EO4? 16 BOB MORRISON: They don't call it that. 17 MR. BEARD: A sanior EO. 18 Can I ask a question Chris brougnt up. 19 -Can you run-through the way these go in ascending
'20 order? 'You start out as an AO I believe you said.
21 CHRIS BURNS: .Right. 22 MR. BBARD:. And then you.become'an EOl . - 23 CHRIS BURNS: Uh-huh. 24 'MR.-BEARD: And then you go on'up to'E03. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 O
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8 y_g 1 CHRIS-BURNS: Well, there is an OE2. ;
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2 MR. BEARD: I mean you go through 2 and 4 3 then 37 4 CHRIS BURNS: Yeah. 5 MR. BEARD: And.is-the'next' step,a. senior 6 EO? 7 BOB ~MORRISON: Yeah. s 8 MR. BEARD: Okay.. 9 MR. ROSSI: Let us know if you ~ can't hear 10 anybody. Everybody'should be' reminded to_ speak up i i - 11 fairly loudly so that he can hear. l -12 'MR. BEARD: Yes,-sir. ( 13 BOB MORRISON: ' Coul'd'I_say something off 14 the record? 15 MR.'ROSSI: Le t's go off the record. 16 .(Discussion-held of f . ~the . record. )
'17 MR. ROSSI: Let's'go back on the record.
18 While we were off t h eL 'r e c o r d , there was.a l , 19 general 1 discussion of the fact that-the i 20 classifications of' equipment opera tors '~hav a 'c h a n g e d .
- 21 over the years'and some of'these> positions, people 22 'would not be promoted >intoothem any longer, but the 23 ones that were already holding them remained. Is
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24 {}- that'a-fair cha ra c te r'iza tion . -- ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS ~ INC. , (202) 347-3700
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. l 1 BOB MORRISON: Yes,~ sir. .O 2 MR. ROSSI:~ -- of what was said, Bob I
3 Morrison? ' < 4 BOB MORRISON: Yes, sir. 5 =MR. BEARD:. Were you exNavy also? 1 ~ 6 BOB MORRISON:. No,. sir. 4 7 MR. ROSSI:- Go ahead, Larry. 8 MR. BELL: Do squipment operators work in 9 the auxiliary building and tne turbine building? 4 10 BOB MORRISON: Depends on what level 11 . equipment operator you a r.e . 12 CHRIS-BURNS:- AO to E01 works in the ! l 13 turbine building, EO2 and E03 and senior equipment
- 14 operator work in the auxiliary --
t-4 j 15 MR. BELL: So Mr. Burns,--you worked - 16 'primarily in the turbine building? t 17 CHRIS. BURNS: Correct. l 4' l 18 MR. BELL: And you other three gentlemen -- , 19 JEFF MELEG: Chris and I work in the , 20< turbine building, and these two work in the 21 auxiliary building. 1 22 MR. BELL: Tnat's' simpler.for me. I can 23 keep i t straight. BOB-MORRISON: j} 24 I also'~ work in the turbine AC3 FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700' ,
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2 MR. BELL: Okay. 3 MR.-BEARD: ' But at least during this -- j 4 BOB MORRISON: But they work there
. 5 exclusively.
., 6 MR. ROSSI: So it's Mark Klain and Bob
'7 Morrison that work in the aux building plus-the i .
8 turbine building? 9 BOB MORRISON: Right. f 10 MR. BEARD: Maybe we can go through a 11 little bit further in terms of just a brief skim 12 off-the top with what. activities were done in the 13 turbine building that rela ted ' to the event, and it 14 may be tha t we can reduce the burden on thesa ; 1 r 15 gentleman. l 16 MR. ROSSI: Okay. What activities.during i 17 tne event were done in the turbine building? r 18 MR. BEARD: Just in general.- 5 L 19 JEFF MELEG: Related.to me? i I 20 MR. BEARD: Just related to each of'you l' 21 related to this avant 'tha t. Sunday morning? 22 JEFF MELEG: Okay. Well,.I was on top of
- 23 tha turbina taking my turbine readings whenever the
.i {) 24 trip occurred. And just prior to the in te rmedia ta ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. i 3 (202) 347-3700 4 -
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- 1 stop valves going shut, I heard a loud like squealing bl 2 noise, and I thought it was like a turbine blads or 3 something.
4 So I went over to investigate. Batore I 5 got two steps, all four valves slammad shut and I 6 wont, Okay, we tripped. 7 So than that's when I precaedad to the 8 control room. 9 MR. ROSSI: And after you got to the 10 control room, woro you than dischargad to do other 11 things associa ted witn the avent? 12 JEPP MELEG: Yes. After -- you know, 13 they were trying to figure out whst happened 14 initially, so normally on a trip, the equipment 15 ope ra tors just go to tha control room in the standby 16 mode waiting for tnam to say go out and check this, 17 go out and do that, go out and do this. 18 Tha t's what I was doing up thero, I was 19 waiting for them to datormina what they wanted ma 20 to do or what they wantad me to chocx. 21 MR. ROSSI: And what was tha general 22 nature of the things that you did during the event? 23 JEFF MELEG: Okay. Basically I was 24 obsarving tnam trying to got the aux feedpumps { i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
12 1 started. Brian -- T ,1 (_) 2 MR. ROSSI: From what, did you go to the 3 auxiliary foodwator pump? 4 JEFF MELEG: Not yet. Becausa he was 5 suppoead to be able to start tnose from tha control I 6 room. So he was saying, Wow, I can't get any steam 7 I can't get them running, so Rick Walleman came 6 around and said, Go down to the aux feedpump room 9 and sao what tne problem is. 10 So at this timo I didn't know why wa 11 woran't getting stsam, so 50 million things wore 12 going through my head. What can I chacK, what can (~\ () 13 I see, what can I remember to go down and got those 14 pumps started. 15 And that's when you came in? 16 CHRIS SURNS: I was already there. 17 JEFF MELEG: You woro already there. And 18 he's the only one that had a sat of keys checkad 19 out to him becaus2 the aux feedpump room is locked. 20 So Chris and I started going down to unlock the aux 21 feed pump room. 22 MR. ROSSI: Wore you the first to be j 23 dispstchad from the control room? So Chris Burns i {} 24 and Jeff Muleg were the first of tha four of you to ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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13 1 leave the control room to go to the aux feodwater 2 pump. rooms? 3 JEFF MELEG: Tna t's right. 4 MR. BEARD: Maybe it would be worthwnile l 5 to gat the. general flavor.of where the other two I i 6 gentleman were assigned or sent. Not all the i
"7 background, but where was the paramount part of
[ 8 what your assignment was during the event. Do you ? i -9 .want to do that, Ernie? 10 MR. ROSSI: Yeah. Please. i 11 MARK KLEIN: Well, I was in tha kitchen }
- l. 12 at the time. I came into the control room to watch
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13 what was happening, and the first-thing thst was 14 done, I was sant down to the aux building to unisolate 15 :10 23. ! 16 MR. BEARD: MU 23 is a makeup valve? I 17 MARK KLEIN: Yas. And than after I had { 18 done - tha t, I went back up to,the control room and i !' 19 simost immedia tely I was called ovar to the i i
. 20 supervisor's office, given s lock valve key, sont 4
21 down to aux toad to unisolate to AFW 599 and 608. 22 MR. BEARD: Okay. 23 MR. ROSSI: Was anybody else involved in 24 oponing the AF-599 and 600? {} ! ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS I t4 C . 1 (202) 347-3700
14 l MARK KLEIN: Well, I was down there opening 5,_~ ) 2 the first valve -- 3 MR. ROSSI: I mean at the valves. 4 MARK KLEIN: Right. Bob Morrison showed 5 up as I was opening them, working on the valves. 6 MR. ROSSI: So tna two of you together 7 were involved in that -- 8 MARK KLEIN: Moro or lass. 9 MR, ROSSI: -- exercise? 10 MR. LANNING: How would you describe the 11 mood in the control room before you were dispatched? 12 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute, Wayne. Lot ma n k,, 13 finish with this last gentleman as to what his 14 primary -- was your involvement, Bob, primarily 15 with AF 599 and 608, or did you have other 16 assignments during tne avont? 17 BOB MORRISON: I was in the aux building 18 at tha time of tho trip at the rad waste pansl, and 19 I stayed there until directed by the assistant 20 shift supervisor to go to the aux boilor to start 21 that. 22 I went over thare, began the procedure to 23 starting the aux boiler, and Mr. Patton came in; I ["; 24 turned it over to him. \J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
% 15 1 I was redirected to go to AF 599 and 608 (v 2 until Mr. Klein op<3ned those. From there I was 1
3 directed to go to the aux feedpumps to get those 4 operating. 5 MR. BEARD: So you were involved with the 6 aux boiler, the fead valves 599 and 608, and also 7 on tne aux teed pumps and pump turbines? 8 BOB MORRISON: Among other things, yas. 9 MR. BEARD: Thank you. Excuse me for 10 interrupting. 11 MR. ROSSI: I wonder with AF 599 and AF 12 608, and let -- tha t's just you two gantloman there (% (_) 13 were involved in thosa oparations.- And let them 14 tell us what they did to get thosa valvas open. 15 MR. BEARD: Do you want to hit Wayn3's 16 question first? 17 MR. LANNING: Could I got 3 -- . 18 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you go ahead with 19 your question. 20 MR. LANNING: Before you were dispatched 21 to the various parts of the plant, you were 22 observing wh.st was going on in th3 control room for 23 some period of time. How would you describe what 24 was going on and what urgency or what'the tona of ( ']) ACE FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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,~ 1 voice was, or just how would you explain to me what l
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%s) 2 was happening in the control room?
3 JEFF MELEG: Wall, generally thoro would 4 be a standard high levol of awaranoss among 5 overybody. It wasn't, you Know, losing it or 6 getting upset, but it was a high lavel of intensity 7 for wsnting to find out why things wore happening. 8 And overybody was looking at everything 9 trying to figure it out and talk to each other and 10 say, you know, I'm not g2tting any staam here. Why 11 not? Chsck this, check that. Whst's wrong with 12 this, vnat happsnad there? You know. So it was -- ('3.) 13 it went generally the way a regular trip would go. 14 MR. LANNING: You have b2on involved in 15 prior trips then? 16 JEFF MELEG: Yeah. Not only here at 17 Davis-Besse but otnar plicas too. It's just about 18 tne same, you Know, where svaryone has stepped up 1 19 their level ot inxiaty somewha t. 20 CHRIS BURNS: I had just finished my 21 resdings and want in the kitchan to gat a cup ot 22 coffee, and I hosrd, you know, the trip commencing 23 2nd some of the things that were going on. {} 24 So I went out into the control room to ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
17 1 tell them I was available if they needed, you know, 2 to dispatch somsbody anywhere in the plant. And I 3 stood by until they told me where to go. 4 And it saamed to me tha t t.n o way they-5 vere conversing with each other, they would repeat 6 back things that tney did, and it was similar to 7 like when I was on tha submarine in the military, 8 it was, you know, they tried to keep things in 9 order and tried to keep the assistant shift 10 supervisor well informod of everything they did so 11 no would xnow. Tna t's wha t it looked like to me, 12 becsuse I nad baan in that position before in tne
) 13 military.
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Do you two then, each 15 of you, could you just describe briefly the 16 atmosphere in tha control room and what you 17 observed? I guess a couple of you may not have -- 18 some ot you weren't even in the control room au the 19 time, but describe, you know, what you know about 20 the general atmosphere. 21 MARK KLEIN: Well, whon I was standing 22 thers -- 23 MR. ROSSI: There being? () 24 MARK KLEIN: I was standing in front of ACE FEDERAL REPORTBRS INC. l (202) 347-3700
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- 18 1 the PSat/TSat panel, right by thst. And I was (
2 watching the r3 actor operators. Brian Young was
'3 over with the feodwater, Rick Walleman was over on 4 the primary side of the panel, and Steve Feasol was l
5 behind the desk reading the procedure. And they 6 were calling out differont s ta tuses, conditions of t 7 the plant and things they were trying to do or what l 8 they were doing or not doing. ! 9 And overybody seemed a little bit excited l l 10 becsuse things were going on, but asemed to know , i l 11 what th3y were doing, as far as I could tell. And 12 they svnt me -- than they sent me out to do the 13 jobs eney needed done. l 14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Bob? 15 BOB MORRISON: I wasn't in the control l 16 room. 17 MR. ROSSI: You weren' t in the control 1 1 18 room. 19 MR. BEARD: May I ask another general l 20 question? i ! 21 MR. ROSSI: Sure. l l l 22 MR. DEARD: I'm trying to understtnd 23 bottor your bsckgrounds oxay? When you come in as 1 (} 24 an auxiliary operator and than growing through the ACE PBDBRAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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19 1 ranks of various grades of equipment oparator, do 2 you go through a training or check-out process 3 where you checked out on certain systems and you
- 4 get your card signed off for that one, so to speak?
j 5 CHRIS BURNS: Yes, sir. l 1 6 JEPP MELEG: Uh-nuh. 7 MR. BEIRD: Could you tell me, each of 8 you, whether or not you are signed ott, so to spask, I . : 9 on tne aux feedwater system? 10 CHRIS BURNS: Yes, sir. I am.
.. JEEP MELEGI Yes.
12 MARK KLEIN: Y3s. (') (s ' 13 BOB MORRISON: Yes. 14 MR. BEARD: Evorybody is signad otf on 15 sux feed water. Tnank you, i 16 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we return to Mark l 17 Klein and Bob Morrison, you were the ones enat went 18 to AP 599 and AP 608. And why don't you just start 19 and tell us -- start back with where you were at 20 the 'timo you were dispatched to there and w n s't you 21 did when you got there. I 22 And tor that, why don' t wo s ta r t with Bob 23 Morrison. Why don't you start and tell us where 24 you were and what you had to do to get to the
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20 g_ 1 valves, and we are particularly interested in what ; il O 2 you can remember about the need tor keys, t. n e need 3 to go through key lock doors, and where you needed 4 keys, wno had the keys. So just tell us what you 5 remamber. 6 BOB MORRISON: Oxay. I s ta r ted at the 7 boiler. And I was pagad by -- I don't remember now, 8 I think it was the assistant shift supervisor to go 9 to 599 and 608 and opan them. l l l 10 And as I moved toward them through the l l 11 turbine building and the auxiliary building, I knew l l 12 that they wera locked valves, thay could not be 13 operatad manually without a key, and that concarned i l 14 me. l l 15 I wasn't suro what I was going to find 16 wnon I got down there. I was hoping thst with this l 17 call, that he would meet me there with the keya, l l 18 becausa the kays are administrative 1y controlled so 19 only a Davis-Besse TBS suporvisor can handle those 20 keys. They can not be issuad to anybody else. 21 Thore are numerous locked doors between 22 where I was .i n d the vslves themselves that I h .s d to 23 got through. That concerned me also, because I did () 24 not have a set of keys with me. They are not - ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
21 o 1 2 issued normally. need them basis. They are only issued on an as you l 1 3 I-had s' plastic card to get through the ; 4 card readers, but tnose have been known to snap and I 5 fail. 6 MR. ROSSI: What do you mean by snap and 7 tail?- ' d BOB MORRISON: Break. , 9 MR. ROSSI: Thank you. 10 ' BOB'MORRISON: If'they wero-to break, I , 11 would not be allovad access into that area then. i 12 Those would remain locked. ; O 13 MR. BEARD: Excuse me. I'm contused on a 14 point, Bob. Are you saying there were numerous 15 lockad doors, and you are talking about keys. Are 16 there some doors you have to go through that you 17 would need-the key for as a backup to your card i 18 possibly failing? ; 19 BOB MORRISON: Yes. 20 MR. BEARD: Or are there doors you need a i, f 21 key regardless.of the card or'indepsndent of t r.e 22 card? , 23 BOB MORRISON: In this particular case
< f j } 24 there were no doors that did not have a card reader ACE PEDERAL-REPORTERS INC.
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1 on them. -There wara two doors I had to go through d 2 that had card readers on. Either one of those , 3 doors,'if my card had failed, I.would not hava 4 acessa to'unem. 5 HR. ROSSI: '
'And you did not have the key i
6 to go through the door had that occurred? 7 BOB MORRISON: No. So trusting 8 . Providence, I headad for the room hoping that I , 9 would meet him there with a key to the valva. If 10 not,.I would have nad to go bacx to_the control : 11 room and sign out one of these keys, one of the ( 12 keys for the doors. I still wouldn't have been ( 13 able to get a lock valve key. 14 I wsnt straight there, ,I didn't have any f f 15 trouble with the doors that time. When I got there, ; i 16 Mr. Klein was there-with a lock valve key. lie had [ l 17 been issued a lock valve Roy. [ i 18 HR. ROSSI: Okay. So he was already 3 \{ -
- l
- 19 there when you got to-the valves, and you got to [
1 s {- 20 one of the valvas first, I guess? f 21 BOB MORRISON: Yes. No. 4 penetration ;
- 22 was AF 599. We went'to tha t valve first becsuna i
23 that was the closest'from where I was, so logic ! 2
,() 24 dicta ted I hasd for that one first.
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23 g 1 MR. ROSSIt Okay. Why don' t wa switch b 2 over to Mr. Klein there. And wny don't you i 3 describe where you were and describe ths sequance l l 4 that you took up to the point where you mut Mr.
< 5 Morrison.
6 MARK KLSIN: OKay. Tne suporvisor told 7 me to come up with him over to his ott:ico. Ho ! l 8 opened the lock valve cabinst and/or the cabinet 9 with the kays in it, handed me a lock valve xcy and 10 asid, I authorize you to take this xay, go down and 11 :nsnually open AP 599 and A r 6 0 'l . 12 So I reposted that bacn to him. And I 13 went through the doors down to No. 4 mechanical 14 penetration room and unlocked AY 599. And then na 15 showed up. I ti MR. ROSSIt Did you also have to go 17 througn doors that wore controlled by Key carda to ; 18 get there? i 19 MARK KLEIN: Right. I had to leave the 20 control room, I had to go into tne RACA and I had 21 to go to No. 4. 22 MH. ROSSI Did you have keys to go 23 through those doors had your card reader ttiled? Q O 24 MARK KLBIN: ti o , I didn't. ACE PEDERAL REL80RTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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- 1 MR. ROSSI: So if your card reader card {
xJ nad tailed, one of you would have had to go back to 2 , 3 the control room to get a Key or you couldn't have i i l 4 procuadod to the valvss: is that correct? l ! 5 MARK KLEIN: Correct. Except I wouldn't l l 6 have boon able to gat back into tno control room j 7 eitner, not it my card was broke. l l l 3 BOS MORRISON: Neitner one of us could. [
> MARK KLEIN: I would nava to call to have i 10 s o:a a b od y let us in so I could nave a kay.
11 MR. ROSSI: Oxay. j 12 MR. OSARD: Along this lino et getting . (_/ l f') 13 sccess, yesterday when we had a plant tour, it 14 anaamd as though we wont tnrougn a rad control ! 15 point. Is that -- am I remembering rignt? You l 16 would go through a rad control point to gut to 17 these pan-atration roomo? i 18 acu MORRISON: Yes, Jir. l 19 MR. DEARD OKay. You Colka, as an 20, 20 you were traveling in a ditterant situstion than wo 21 were as visitors, but could you give me some Cool 22 tur what your obligations or responsibilitias on a 2J norm:al basis or during this emer9ency were with () 24 respect to this rad control point? ACE t#CDitRAL RCPORTERS INC. (20J) J47-J700
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.s 1 BOB MORRISON: We would hava to do all I
(v) 2 the same things you did. 3 MR. BEARD: Does that maan sign in, got 4 badgas? 5 Boa MORRIsoN: Wo already nava the 6 permanent badges issued at the ga tshous e. You l l 7 picked up a baten -- 1 I 8 MR. BCARD: Had a TLD? l
) DOB MORRISON: Those are issuad at the i
- 10 ga tahouse to us.
I 11 MR. ROSSI: Rather than loading him, why 12 don't you just tell us what you had to do on the 13 day of the event to gat past thare. l 14 MR. BSARD: Thank you. t 15 uou MORRISON: The first thing wo do at 16 turnover befora wa taso the duty is to maat in that i 17 area and sign into that area, so we are already 19 logged into that aras so we can move through that 19 area without delay. 20 MR. BCARD: I soc. l 21 DOB MORRISON: But I m>an, we still have l l 22 to meet the same requirements and we had to go i i 23 through the same procedure you did. l l
/~) 24 MR. ROSSI: But not on your way down
- l
~# ACE FEDERAL REPORTSRS INC.
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26 1 there. At the time you were headed there -- p
\ j 2 BOB MORRISON: Exactly.
3 MR. ROSSI: -- you were previously 4 authorized and had done whatever was requirad to go 5 past that control point? 6 BOB MORRISON: Right. 7 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Fina. 8 MR. BEARD: The point I was trying to got 9 to, there was no delay at that point oither? 10 BOB MORRISON: No. 11 MR. BEARD: Okay. 12 MR. ROSSI: OKay. Now -- I'm sorry,
' 13 Larry.
b,m 14 MR. BELL: Can you call the guards if 15 your card was to fail and could they not opon tne 16 door for you? 17 BOB MORRISON: Yes, sir. You could call 18 the guards. It's casior to go got the key. 19 MR. BELL: It takes longer to call a 20 guard and have him opan that door from tne CAS than 21 it is to go back up and gat a kay? i 22 MR. ROSSI: Somebody wants to speak. Go 23 2 head. 24 C l! R I S BURNS: We are not sure where the (~h ' i
\1 ACE F3DSRAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
27 1 guards come from. So I'm not sure if thay come r (m,_) 2 from PPF or -- 3 MR. BELL: Tney can't open this door 4 remotely? 5 CHRIS BURNS: No, not that I know ot. 6 BOB MORRISON: If that's in s a t a g ua ;;d s 7 information, we are not aware of it. We have never 8 sean it before. 9 CHRIS BURNS: They have never dons it for 10 me. 11 MR. BEARD: So the guard has got to find 12 the door sad than use his Roy. 13 ('}
%j CHRIS BURNS: As far as I know.
14 00B MORRISON: If you want to go that 15 route, if you wanted to secure the guard. 16 MR. BELL: Okay. That's fine. I found 17 out what I need to know. l 18 MR. ROSSI: So I think that Bob Morrison 19 and Mark Klein have now met at AF 599, and Mark, I 20 think you aaid that by the tima Bob arrived, you 21 had unlocked the valvo. 22 MARK KLEIN: Right. 23 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you just proceed 24 and tell us what the two of you did. Did the two b)
'w/ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
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29 1 Then when I turned the nand wnsel back in, ; () 2 I heard the motor start. It wsnt opens all I had l j ' 3 to do was loca the hand wheel back up and proceeded i i 4 to tha other valve. ! 5 MR. ROSSI: So the laver returns to its j i i 6 normal position wnen you let up on it? ,
! 7 MARK KLEIN: No. No, it didn't, not whan f l 8 I let up on it. Jut when the motor toon over, it j 4
l 9 apparently picked that up. The nand whael didn't ! 10 . turn or snything when the motor was opening the ! 4
; 11 valve. ,
12 MR. ROSSI The hand wheel did not turn l' 13 when the motor was opening the valvo? [} 14 MARK KLEIN: No, it didn't. 15 Ma. ROSSI: But you heard it -- 16 MARK KLEIN: I heard it moving, than 1 i
, 17 saw ens atom rising.
{ 10 And at that point then, both of you 19 proctodad to the other valve? 1 20 MARK KLEIN: Rignt. 21 MR. DEARDr I would like to understand a 22 little more sbout this clutch lever, and I i s 23 understand that when the lever is down, is there 24 then at t h.s t point both manuit control and it can ! Acc FEDERAL RDPORTERS INC. { (202) 347-3700 i
i 30 1 respond to say autoestic externsi signala? Or I() ( 2 3 what's the situstion on that? MARK KLBIN I'm not exsctly oure how it 4 works inside. l l
$ MR. UCARD I'm just thinning tros an l
6 operator's point og view, it you have got tnst l 7 levar pulled down, hsys you got the only control of i i o that valve with tne hand wnsel or are tnote other l 9 things that control that v11va? 10 MARA KLEIN I'm pretty suro I was the 11 only one that had control of it. bactuse it wasn't 12 untti I was roletsing it that I heard the motor == j 13 tnat I heard the motor turn the V11ve. 14 MR. USARD You celossad tne clutch? l 15 MARK KLEINI I did not reloase the clutch. l 16 I was not holding an to the hand whos1 to open it. 17 I don't nnow whether I had control or not. The lo hand wh491 wasn't turning, so I assume it wasn't l 'J engaged with the v11ve at the time. 20 MR. HMARD Did you hear noisen? 21 MARK KLu!N 1 hated a little bit of a 22 rattling noise insiJo. I thinn it was just the 2J iotor starting up and engsging with the valve at 24 the point where it ongsgas with the valve. ACC F8DERAL H8 PORT 6RS INC. (202) J47-J700
i 31 1 Ma. ucARoi oo you nave say idea or do l 0 2 you ramamber any reison or do you hava iny t J oxplanation to to why ths valva should start l 4 turning on its own? l i 5 tt A R K KLCIN: Pron what I was thinking at 6 the ti.no was chit Enore 'fas -- I was under tha l I 7 1:np r a s a t o n thay had toryuod out trying to open. 3 And I was under tno impression thit tne awitch
) ra sag a j id once I opened tha valve to a certain 10 point and toon ov4r.
l 11 3R. uCARD: So are you Asying tnst thoto , 12 was sont previous T a t s ain ti c o r :r. s n u a l aignal from j Q 13 thi control room -- l 14 MARK K L C I ti Right. Thors was an opJn l T 15 sign 1 to thu valvu. [ i to MR. uP.ARD: Tnann you. j t 17 MR. 40J01 Okay. 30 now -- I l IJ MR. L A titi !!4 G I 1100 wanted to add dumething [ 13 to tnis. j i 20 000 MORRID0!ls the valve opa ta ted l r 21 noens11y. tno n o t o 's w? heard was tna tingers trom I 22 the hand whool disonpging whan th2 motor turns on, , 23 i t -- if you have got it in manual, it will Aich 1* i J4 out. That's wnit disangsgas thi clutcn. i O ACC PCDEMAL REPORTadd itic. i (202) 347-3700
r-J2 1 I'm sure they can show you an example
/
2 over thare. You can put them into manual, but you 3 can't override the motor. And then you take tha 4 hand whael and take up any slack and put pressuro 5 on it. 6 In this case, once you broke it free from 7 the seat a little bit, I'm sure wha t happenad was d the torque switch mated again and the motor sta rted 9 and it Kicked tne fingers, the manual tingers out, 10 and it will override the clutch and it will push 11 tni clutch back up. 12 And without somo kind of a -- you can't 13 hold it down. You don't nave enough strength to 14 hold down on the handle. You don't have enough 15 leveraga to hold it into manual to ovorride the 16 motor. The motor will kick it out. 17 MR. BEARD: So if you wanted to do IB something on the valve, on that valve as an 19 operstor, you would have to find -- for your own 20 saiety, you would have to find some way to disable 21 that motor action that could come trom some other 22 signal, souldn't you? How would you do that it you 23 went down there to do somothing in a repair action 24 so somebody at a different pisce in the plant ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (~') (202) 347-3700 .
JJ 1 didn't cause that motor to take off whila you got 2 your fingers in it?
~) %)
3 BOB MORRISON: I don't know the situation. 4 If you are going to work on a valve, they open a l 5 breaker and safety tag it out. 6 MR. BEARD: Okay. I 7 BOB MORRISON: And if you were operating j 8 at the time and somebody sent a signal sad got an 9 automatic signal to change directions on your takeovor , 1 10 all it does is disengage the clutch and it doesn't 11 turn, so you couldn't get your tingers caught, or I ! 12 if you are into a position with a wrench on it, it l ! 13 wouldn' t turn against the wrench. 14 MR. ROSSI: So the two of you now have 15 599 or it's -prima rily Ma rk Klein, I guess, had 599 16 assentially working by tne tima you got tnere; is i 1 17 that correct, Bob? 18 BOB MORRISON: I got down there in time 19 to see it put pressure against the hand wheel, then 20 I heard the motor start. You can't really hear the 21 motor s tart; you could hear it s ta rt because of the 22 clutch disengaging. The fingers ware interfering,-- 23 the fingers were becoming disengaged. 24 So I s tayed there with him; you know, hl> ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
+
J4
. I watch'ed it open, it only took a1second, to make 2 sure if it had stalled out again and he needed help l
. 3 opening it manually, because the thing is 177 turns 4 from shut to-open. It's a long-winded valve and 5 it's ~really tough to get to. It's really difficult 6 to operate in manual. I stayed with him. Besides 7 -he had the key. 4 8 MR. ROSSI: Did you stay and watch it 9 until it was all the way open? 10 B O B' MORRISON: Yes, sir. ! 11 MR. ROSSI: Until it was a'll the way 12 opsned you stood and watched it. How.hard was it i 13 to turn the hand whos1 when you first had to turn 14 it? Just' describe as best you cdn in your own 15 words and compare it to ather tnings.you have done, 16 if you.like? 17 MARK KLEIN: It was about f as hard as any 18 valva that's shut against some kind of pressure. 19 It wasn't -- it didn't act like it was' stuck or . 20 anything. It was'just tight. l 2:1 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So now you rhan 22 . proceeded to the other valve, AF.608?
.23 MARK KLEIN: 1Right..
=24 MR. ROSSI: The-two of-you together1went
$() ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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3d 1 to AF 60S? r - 2 BOB MORRISON: Yes. h 3 MR. ROSSI: Could you as best you can 4 describe how far away 608 is from-599 and whether-5 it's on the-same level or not? 6 -MARK KLEIN: It's on the same level. 7 It's just down the hallway a good forty or fifty 8 feet I would say down to the next door, to number i 9 three mechanical penetration room. You have to go 10 through a card reader to get into there. 4 11 MR. ROSSI: You needed another-card 12 reader at this point to get to the other valve? 13 MARK KLEIN: Then when we were in transit 14 there, they paged me over the phone. Since I had . 15 the lock key, he answer it tor-me.- Then tha guard 16 came and said we alarmed a door. 17 Sometimes if you don't hold the door shut 13 or if you don't shut it in time or you don't push 19 the bypass button on leaving the rooms so you don't 20 have to usa the card, you_can_use'the bypass button
.21 and it just. releases the alarm,fand.if you" don't 22 push that before_you open the-door, if you are in a 23 . hurry and do it at the same time _and you are not 24 close enough, you get.an' alarm.. And the guard was
-[) ACE; FEDERAL REPORTERSfINC.
N' (202)-347-3700
.l l
3o 1 .trying to question us. r . 2 MR. ROSSI: Where was the guard? Was he {
- 3 there at the door at tnis t i ai e ?
4 MARK KLEIN: Right.
~5 MR. ROSSI: 'He was there, and ho 6 - questioned you. Go ahead and describa that?
7 MARK KLEIN: Well, na told us that we got 8 the alarm. We said, Yes, we know. We are doing 9 something important now. l 10 And so he didn't detain us any more. 11 Just took down -- hu knew who we were and just took 1 12 down information. He told us larer ne wrote a { 13 report on it. 14 MR. ROSSI: Okay.- Fina. So continue. 15 You both -- 16 MARK KLEIN: .He answered the phone for { 17 the page for me. He answered the phone, and we 18 went into the room. He. answered: the' phone and I 19 went rignt to the valve and unlocked ~ it and started I 20 opening -- it reacted the exact same way as'599. 2:1 .MR. ROSSI: YouLstood there and watched , -22 it open all the way? 23 ._ M A R K KLEIN: Right._ And then after it 24 _was opanad all the way,-I watened the. stem rise all
-( ) ACE FEDERAL: REPORTERS INC.-
(202) 347-3700-
- -- --r - -- - ,w- , wm-,t. ,-re ,,-,-e, , - + ew,----,- ---.+,4
i 37 1 the way and I watched the open lights coma on. ,.~s 2 MR. ROSSI: Are tnere local opan lights i a v 3 there to tell you that the val.ve is all tha way 4 opan? 5 MARK KLEIN: Yes. 6 BOB MOERISON: There is also opan push 7 buttons, but they are also locked up. 8 MR. ROSSI: Did you have tne kays for 9 thosa? 10 BOB MORRISON: They would nave be3n tne 11 same key that you taxe the chain off. 12 MR. BEARD: What was tne nature of the 13 page you answered? s (~'J \- 14 BOB MORRISON: That was the one they 15 d ire c te d me to the aux feedpump room. 16 MR. ROSSI: So you were called and asked 17 to go to the aux feedpump room at this point in 18 time? 19 BOB MORRISON: Y'e s . 20 MR. ROSSI: After you had finished with 21 6 'J 8 7 22 BOB MORRISON: Right. 23 MR. ROSSI: They said after you are done 24 with 608, go to ths aux feedwater pump room, or did [J' ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 m
i 36 1 they tell you to.go right then? 2 BOB'MORRISON: I don't recall. I don't 3 recall. 4 MR. .ROSSI: Okay. 5 BOB MORRISON: I remember I wouldn't have 6 left 608 until I knew it was open. 3 7 MR. ROSSI: Fine. But both of you'were S there, you' watched 608 open, and then tell us where 9 you went after that? 10 BOB MORRISON: Came out of the room, and i 11 that's whan we met the guard. He.was responding to 12 the door alarm. He just mentioned we had failed
, 13 one of.the doors.- And then the next night ne told j.
14 me he wrote a SIR, a security incident report. 15 MR. ROSSI: Okay.- Lot ma clarify one ; 16 thing. You did not meet the guard'on tne-way to 17 valve 608, you met.the guard from 608?' , 18 BOB MORRISON: I am p r'e t ty sure -- 19 MARK KLEIN:- That was wnen we were
~20 leaving No. 4.
e 21 BOB MORRISON:. I think No. 4 is when we-i- 22 violated the-alarm'and he was -- 23 MARK KLEIN: And he'was in the hallway. ' BOB MORRISON: recollect it on.the way 24 -I ()-- ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS-INC. i (202) 347-3700
. .- . - _ , _ , . , .- . - . . . . , _ - - - . ~ . . . . - - - , . . - - , , . .. ., .
39 1 out. f 2 MR. ROSSI: And you recollect it on the O-- 3 way in? 4 MARK KLEIN: I recollect it between the 5 'two valves. 1 6 MR. ROSSI: Okay. I'm sure that is 7 something that can be sorted out from the guard if i 8 we really need to know. 9 BOB MORRISON: I would like to make a $ 10 point. He.didn't detain us. I
- 11 MARK KLEIN
- He didn't.
{ 12 BOB MORRISON: There wasn't any delay j 13 there. i' O-- 14 MR. BEARD: Could I ask a question at , 15 this point? It seemed line -at this point, you j . 16 fellows have both been dispatched from your i 17 respective areas and you-have-gono to these two i 18 . valves that were important to the event, and you 19 .got them open. You were beginning to leave and, 20 like you'said, Bob, you were being sent on to the
-21 aux feed room?
.22 BOB MORRISON: Uh-huh. -!
23 MR. BEARD: Could you givs us some feel-24 for'the total time ' involved from the time you were ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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, . _ _ _ . . , - - . _ - _ _ - . , ~. _
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t Q) Q U .l 40 1 dispatched to the-point both valves were open and
'2 to what axtent you were, say, running or really ;
3 hustling or wera you walxing? Can you give us some 4 fcel for that part of it? 5 BOB MORRISON: There was no delay. I was 5 moving as quickly as I could with the idea tha t_ I 7 didn't want to snap that badge because that was my
; 8 only ticket through tha t plant. As a sanior
< 9 equipmant operator, if I snap that badge, I might 10 as well have gone home. 11 I was moving as quickly as.I could, with 1 12 the knowledge if I run into one of those seismic 13 restraints they hava all over the building, I would 14 have laid there until day shift, until they could 15 have assembled the First Aid team.
- i. 16 I was moving as quickly as I could, with 17 all due knowledge of what could happen with the
, 18' consequences. We were on'a dead run whan we'could
. ,,vn i
19 down tha hallways where there is some room and 20 .through tne areas, the opsnings we ran as fast as 21 we could. But it was with--- you know, we tried to
~2 2 use as much prudence as we can.
r 23 MR. BEARD: Could you give me a sort of
-24 feel for time? I realize.if-you are running, it's i
() ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
41 1 hard to judge it. But do you have any feel for 2 what time was involved? One minuta, tan minutes, g~)3
\_ !
3 anything like that? 4 BOB MORRISON: From my first card at tha 5 rad waste panel, I moved to the boiler, and from 6 there I moved to both valves and down the aux 7 feedpump room, and I did tnat all in eight minutes. 8 MR. BEARD: You did that all in eight 9 minutes? 10 MR. ROSSI: Do you hava some way of 11 knowing it was aight minutas? 12 BOB MORRISON: I requested I see tha door 13 alarms, because I had to checx in. Whan the (l
' 14 incident started, when it tripped, I was in No. 1 15 ECCS room, and I would have bean loggad into that 16 area. From there I went directly to the rad waste 17 panel which is on that same elevation, and we a few 18 months ago, gees, actually it's been out a couple 19 of years, but they clarified a spacial order that 20 says we are not supposed to be in the control room 21 normally and we are not supposed to report to the 22 control room unless you are es11ed to tne control 23 room. So we are supposed to stay at our station.
24 Well, tha t's where I went for two reasons. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. I)
\- (202) 347-3700
4 m 1 Well, ona,-b3cause of the special-order; anothar 2 was'that at that rad waste panel, that was my area - 3 that nights.that was my area or zone of 4 responsibility. 5 I.also had communications down there, 4
-6 ' telephone and Gaitronics. Anywhere else in the 7 _ plant, there is places in the plant where it gets 8 noisy enough .it's difficult to hear, so there was .
! 9 no sense in leaving that area. And because that I lo was my zone,-I felt if they wera going to need me, j 11 it would be down in that area. L 12 So when I heard the first page to go to 4 13 the aux boiler,.that was ra the r an odd request. We f i 14 don't-normally need the aux boiler. I believe it 15 was'about six minutes into the transient. We don't 1 16 normally need the aux boilur that soon after a trip. : i
~ ! 17 Usua11y it's --
if you get.it up a couple hours 18 after-the trip, you are doing good. So all the way 19 to the -- and besides, I didn't' understand why I 1 20 was being sent to the aux boiler. I'didn't 21 questionnit; I-just headed for the aux boiler, but i= -22 I was in the .- oppo s ite building. 23 -But it was ---it took me a while to get 24 to the aux boiler. And on the way over there, I (). ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
43 1 realized that something had to be out of n o r .n a l . I O bl 2 didn't Know wha t yet, but than whan I got the call 3 from the -- when I was at tno aux boiler and I got 4 tne call to opan 599 and dod, I Knew tnis wasn't a 5 normal transient. So at that tima I was on a dead a 6 run than for tna rest of the avening. i 7 MR. BEARD: Could I follow that ona point?
-3 JOB MORRISON: Sura.
3 !!R . BEARD: This is a question I already 10 plannad to ask. What was it that gave you the 11 porcaption that this was not a routine situation? 12 Was it becausa norne and bells were going off in 13 tha plant, or was it bccausa of the tona of voica
-( )
14 or did the operator that pnonad you say the' plant 15 and turned itself into soft brown peanut butter and 15 wa are in trouble? How is it you b e c a .n o aware tnat 17 this is not a routina situation? 18 BOB MORRISON: Thare is no indications 19 through tha plant of anything that's happening in 20 Ona control room other than noises, and tnat tar 21 down in the building we couldn't haar the Main 22 staam Isolation valvas go closad, I couldn't hear 23 tna safaties lifting, but I could hear a trip..
, 24 Thore is a datinita thud whan it turnad arcand. I k
ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. 1 (202) 347-3700 l 1
44 1 And for the first six m i n u trs s , I sat down ( s) w 2 at the rad waste panel, I didn't think anything was 3 abnormal, althougn I had no communication with the 4 control room. I didn't expect any. Normally you 5 don' t really need anybody axcept just to clean up 6 aoma of the, you Know, mayDa you start blanKating 7 steam or tne aux boiler latar on or soma of the 3 tnings later on in tno transiant, a normal
, 9 transient.
10 Like I said the first indication I had 11 wnan something wasn't normal was tne request I 12 start the boiler. Thora wasn't a great daal of 13 urgency, but it was I didn't question it; I just (]) -- 14 headed for it. i 15 And on the way over thara, I raalized 16 they must nave lost main staam. I raslizad it 17 wasn't a normal transient, but I still didn't -- I
, 13 nad no idea thare was going to de-anytning raal 19 serious. It was just an. odd request. v 20 So I got to Ono aux boiler, sad than-whan 21 I got the call to open 599 and 608, I Knew things l 22 weren't going real well, but I didn't Know -- I 23 didn't know any further than that. I just Knaw it
. '24 wasn' t a normal transient. Tne satsty aystams ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
)
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46 i 1 push 2d the button at the aux bollar, and to gas fm 2 there probably didn't tsxc a rai n u t a and a nalt, 3 maybe a minute from where I was at th2 rad wasta 4 panol, and than to get back to 399 ind 600, liso I 5 said, I didn't hava any trouble with tha csed 6 readers and tna guards didn't detain me. aut tnara 4 7 was always tnat potantial I can be delayed 22sily 8 with a broK2n badga or wh2tevar. 4 9 So I was able to mova througn tna 10 building tairly cTay that night, but thare was 11 always a potantial of gatting stopad somewhore. 12 MR. ROSSI: Is une oight minutos from tne 4 () 13 aux boilar to 599, is that the aight minutes -- 14 BOB MORRISON: No. It would probably be 15 a minuto from tha rad waste panel to the aux boiler, 16 probaoly another minuto back to 599, and th2n 17 thirty seconda down to 603, and then anothat minuta 18 back to tne aux faadpump room. Some delay in 13 between as ws watched the valvos open. 20 MR. BEARD: So-tne timas, fou would h2ve l 21 giv2n the traval times, not tho times you would ; 22 stay at tne valva noping it -- just roughly -- 23 BOB MORRISON: Yeah.
- ~ 24 MR. BEARD
- --
that's travol time?
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ACE PEDE,RAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
i 47 1 MR. ROSSI: Do you now know wny you were O kJ 2 sent to the aux boiler? 'J
. ha t was the reason you 3 were sant there?
i 4 BOB MORRISON: As it turn 0d out, I don' t 5 believo wo used it, but tne main staam isolstionu 6 going shut, wnica I understand tnay shouldn' t have, ! 7 we lost our main steam to auxiliary steam, 2nd d that's how wo maintain our vacuum, and tna t's now 9 wo maintain our stoam s a ;21 s . 10 And I felt that it was just a pru'J ant -- 11 Oney wanted to maintain tha vacuum. I don't t 12 believe they were looking ah2ad to snutting down or () 13 going to Mode 5 or anything. I think they talt, 14 maybe somebody telt tnoy could got ths MSIVs opan 15 again, get somo kind of control with main stoam. I 16 don't Know. I didn't really look at that. It was 17 just a request. j 13 MR. ROSSI: Le t's go bacK to whora you 19 were both at auxiliary feedwater valve 60d, sad 20 start thara and than tell us wnero you went from 21 there? 22 MARK KLSIN: I want bsck up to tha l'<N I i 23' control room in case unoy n22 dad me tor anything 24 else. And while I wts up thare, I noticed they
,O v
ACS FSDDRAL RSPORTSRS INC. (202) 347-3700
. ,, _ ,_.m-. ,c <
4d 1 were having problems g e '. t i n g the aux teedpumps to /T 'wl 2 run. So I want down to tne aux faadpump room to 3 saa if they needad any help there. 4 MR. BEARD: Wore you diractad down thera 5- by an individual? 6 MARK KLEIN: I just want down there on my 7 osn. 8 MR. ROSSI: And again to go back to the 9 control room and down to tne auxiliary taed water 10 pump room, you had another saries of Kay cards? 11 MARK KLSIN: Just th? control room doors. 12 MR. ROSSI: Just the control room doors? () 13 MARK KLEIN: Right. The aux tardpump 14 room has a lock on it. It was unlocked at the time 15 th2y were down there. 16 MR. ROSSI: Tharc ware already peoplo in 17 ene aux toadwater pump room unan you got tnere? 18 MARK KLEIN: Right. 19 MR. ROSSI: Who was thare when you got 20 there? 21 MARK KLEIN: Jett Patton -- or Jef f M0 leg, 22 Chris auras was thero, and I baliave Bob Morrison 23 was th?ra.
- 24 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Bob, why don't you V
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 4
49 1 tell us wnat you did aftar you lott valve 60d? (3 lI 2 BOB MORRISON: I went straignt to tnc aux 3 feadpump room again Knowing I needod a xey to gat 4 in there, but hopefully thase paople in tnat part 5 of tna plant would have Keys it they nad tna keys 6 assigned to them that night. 7 When I got there, tnoy were already 8 thara. The hatch was open and I want downstairs, 9 and thay already nad the one water tight door open 10 to No. I taedpump. That is the turtnaat one. So 11 it was already opened up, but -- 12 MR. ROSSI: dno do you remember baing ( 13 thare whan you got there? 14 BOB MORRISON: Just thase two, Mr. Meleg 15 and Mr. aurns. 16 MR. ROSSI: OKay. So first wa-had the 17 thraa of you in tne auxilliry faadwater pump rooms, 18 and than eventually all four of you got tners? 19 BOB MORRISON: Mr. Passal snowed up than 20 also. 21 MR. ROSSI: And Mr. Feasel showed up? 22 30B MORRISON: Yes. Ha come dosn to 23 start up tho start feadpump. 7 24 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Now m3ybo is a good O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
~ 50 1- time to go back to these two and lat t h:3 m tall us p} k- 2 wnare they start and what they did to get tne 3 auxiliary teedwatar pump room -- is thst -- wny 4 don't you start and tell us wnero you were at the 5 start.and what you did to got there and cell us 6 about noys and ney card doors and problems you nad 4 7 in getting tnare? 8 CHRIS BURNS: I was in the Kitchan right 9 benind tno control room getting a cup of coffae, 4 10 and I heard tha trip. So I mada myself available 11 to nam to send ma wnerover they wanted. 12 So we wasn't in thera very long, the 13 lights come on for the aux f7edpump turbines, (]) 14 overspeed trip. I saw tnst and I Anaw then that 15 sinca that was part -- that was in my zone araa, 16 that I would probably bo sant there. 7 17 And Mr. Ws112 man dispatchad me to the aux 13 feedpump room. H3 was standing right next to ma, 19 so wa tooK off' tor the aux ta2ipump room. I 20 STEPHEN BURNS: By na, you are reforring 21 to Jeff'Meleg? 22 CHRIS BURNS: Yeah. From tna control 23 room to tne aux foodpump room, you only n9ad ona 24 Key because there is a breakar door. It you are in ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 1
a
, 51 1 ene control room you can got out without a Kay card, To 2 but One aux fosdpump room does nava a sliding i
3 grating door and there is a look a ttacned to it. 4 .i R . ROSSI: It's a padlock? 5 CHRIS BURNS: It's a padlock, and tho 6 only way in charo is with a Aoy. 7 MR. ROSSI: Did you have that key with a you at tha time? 9 CHRIS CURNS: Yes, I had the kay with 20, 10 becausa norually on my readings -- I have to take 11 reasings -- scvaral readings ara behind locxad i 12 doors with just locks on them. So I usually, if I () 13 nava enis part of tha zone, I check out a sat or 14 Reys at the beginning of tna unitt. 15 MR. ROSSI: So the two of you procaeded 16 nors or lass together to tno auxiliary taadwater 17 pump room. 13 CHRIS BURNS: Wa woro mayba ten fest 19 apart at tne most, tad that was going down tn2 20 stairs. 21 MR. ROSSI: And could you give us sort or 22 a description of lixa how many stairways you have 23 to go down? I maan, what you can romambor and the r j 24 procuas of getting to tha auxiliary faedwatar pump l L ACE FEDERAL REPORTSRS INC. L (202) 347-3700 l r
52 1 rooms? 2 CURIS BURNS: We were on the 623 lavol. 3 Tnat's tno control room. , 4 MR. BELL: Which is how many floors abov2 5 ground leval? 6 CHRIS BURNS: Three floors. So w3 went i 7 down tnrae flignts of stairs to get down to the 535 8 level. We ran to the aux faadpump room.
- 9 By this time I had tossad him the kafs 10 becausa he was way in front, tan foot in tront of
! 11 me. I tigurad by One time he got tha door unlockad, 12 becausa you hava to slide it opan, no could have it 13 opened by the time I got there. (]) 14 MR. ROSSI: So you tossad tha kays to him? 15 Clia l S BURNS: Y3s. And he had tha door j 16 opsn and was in the process or sliding it bacx when 17 I jumpad on top of it ind halpad him push it back. 13 That left me in front, and I walxed down the stairs .l 19 into tha aux toadpump room. And no was at arm's 20 longth bonind me. g 21 MR. BELL: Did you walx or did you us2 ! 22 the handrails to jump and slid??
- 23 CHRIS BURNS
- I used the handrails, and 24 those st3ps wera Kind of short thoto. I didn't O ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
53 1 want to slida becausa there are things that will (. 2 catch your nands on tna way, and I have got them 3 caught beforo. 4 So I want down quickly, but there is a 5 place where it turns and you nave to taxa your nand 6 oft th3 rail because there is no rail there. 7 STEPHEN BUaNS: rnoce staps are almost 3 the inclina of a stapladder, a ren' t they? 9 CHRIS BURNS: Pretty close. 10 MR. ROSSI: But you can go down them 11 frontwards; you didn't hava to turn around? You 12 want down frontwards? () 13 CliR I S BURNS: Yes, sir. 14 MR. ROSSI: Describe however you want to 15 give a clavor or wnat the stsps sere like. Go 16 ahead and tall us what you think of tno steps. 17 OfiRIS BURNS: I thinx tnit -- 18 STEPHEN BURNS: The other Mr. Burns? 13 OllRIS dORNS: -- tne other Mr. Burns 20 describad it properly. If you don' t get on a s t -a p , 21 you can slip vary aasily. 22 So I got down to tha bottom of tne 23 stairway, and No. I aux toadpump la benind s door 24 witn a big nand whaal on it; it's an alarm door. I ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 u--_-_-.-__-___________
f 54 1 wont to it and opened it, becausa Mr. Malog was
,) 2 right behind me. He could go to No. 2, which no 3 would not have to open a door. Wa would have to 4 op2n a door anyway to get to No. 1. So I opened 5 ene door.
6 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Now, did each or you 7 go to a different pump tnen at this point? 8 CHRIS BURNS: Yes, sir. 9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. And Mr. Burns, you 10 went to -- 11 CHRIS BURNS: No. 1. 12 MR. ROSSI: No. 1 pump. And Mr. Melag, {} 13 you want to No. 2 pump? 14 JEFF MELEG: No. 2. 15 Ma. ROSSI: Mayba de ought to switch over 16 to Mr. Moleg. Do you have anything you want to add 17 to tn? description of the two of you going to the 18 auxiliary fn2dpump rooms, ditficultias you had or 19 datails you remembor or any of that kind of thing? 20 JEFF MELEG: Okay. I romember wh2n Chris 21 and I was first dispatch 2d from the control roco 22 that I didn't Know what I was going to tind in tne 23 aux feodpump room. I just didn't know. And liK2 I
, 24 said earliar, tnat the print of the aux te2d system i)
V ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
55 1 came to my nead, and I was trying to rigure out why (.u) 2 we woran't getting steam down thera or wnat was the 3 problem. 4 So as we are making hasta getting out et 5 the control room, while I was tahing the st2ps 5 thras or four at a tima -- I guess I'm a littic 7 thinner than Chris so I can move tastar. He had a tna keys at the time, so as I was going down.tha 9 staps, ne said, :I s r a , taxe thasa, and he tnrew me 10 tna keys. And then I hauled ass and got down thara 11 and unlocked it. 12 Lixe he said, he was just a foot anead of () 13 me as we ware going down nera. Instantly you 14 could tall whether the aux feedpump tripped 15 throttle valve is tripp2d or not. 16 MR. ROSSI: You were tha ona who actually 17 opan:d tne door to the auxiliary feadwater pump 18 room, waren't you, Mr. Meleg? 19 JEFF ASLEG: Right, with his Kays. So 20 that was the first thing. 21 Now, whan I left tno control room, I was 22 undar the impression they didn't Know why we were 23 not'gotting steam. So in order-to Kaap the control cs 24 room informed -- and this is something that ma and I 1 A> ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
^
T& w --M
i 56 1 Rick Wallaman and Brian Young just do. Wh2novar I l 2 go out and I sac acmathing, I alwsys call bacx 3 i.a m a d i a t a l y . That way thay know, becausa I didn't 4 know if they were dispatening poople all ov2r tha 5 place looking for gramlins. I didn' t xnow. 6 So since I saw the trip throttle valva 7 was trippod, right otf the bat I said, It's not S gatting any staam because of this. So I undid taa 9 little lock wire. 10 MR. ROSSI: This is aux feadpump now -- 11 JEFF MELEG: No. 2. Tners is a lock wiro 12 on the nand wn221 -- not a lock, but a locx wira --
/~i 13 and I undid the littla latch on it ind latcnod it Q
14 back up whila Chris was getting the water-tight 15 door open. 15 MR. BEARD: Were you not awara of when 17 you latt tna control room that tn2 p u:a p nad trippad? 13 You thought it was a loss of steam situation? 19 JEFF MSLEG: It was a loss of staam other 20 than a trip. I didn' t Know that, and I didn' t Know 21 if tno control room Knew it trippad. So I wantad 22 to go call thom immadiately as soon as I got it 23 relatched to tell t h a .n rignt off tha bst, Hay, it's 7, 24 tha tripped throttl? valva, su if you want to sand
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ACE FSDSRAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
57 1 some people down haro or do whatavar, this is tha (~ 'T k> 2 problem. 3 MR. ROSSI: But batora you did that, you 4 latchad the trip tnrattia valva. 5 JEFF MELEG: Okay. I undid the lock wire 6 and you have to move tne nsad wnoel in tha 7 counter-clockwisc direction -- or tha clocxwisa 3 direction and your latching m2chanism will como up 9 and it will r: latch with the barchan from the trip 10 macninism. So wh2n I did that, I still wasn' t 11 getting any steam. It still wasn't opan yet. 12 So Onen I stopped for somo r2ason or 13 othar and Chris nad already gotten the No. 1 (v~) 14 faadpump rotating about fiftaan hundred, two 4 15 thousand rpm? 16 CliRIS BURNS: No. 17 JEFF MELEG: It wasn' t that tast yat? Id CliRI S SURNS: It wasn't ro ta ting at all 19 at that tima. 20 JEFF MELEG: That must have bean a little 21 cit latur. 22 But I tried calling on the phone to tall 23 the control room. That was my first concern; that
- 7. 24 way they would know .wns t's going on down nare.
U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
58 1 W211, tna phona wasn't working. It was 2 cutting in and out, and as I was trying to atrain -- 3 the cord is only this long, and I was pulling it -- 4 MR. ROSSI: Did you use tha phone tha t's 5 like a normal pnona or did you usa a naadset? 6 Which did you uaa? 7 JEFF MELdG: No, a regular phone. The 8 phon 3 that was attachJd -- 9 MR. ROSSI: Tha ragul1r nandphone? l 10 JEFF MELEG: And it was cutting in and 11 out and I was -- they were saying, say again, go 12 mgsin, say again, what are you doing, what are you 13 doing? Tncy ware cutting.in and out and the j (]) 14 communications was real bad. And I wantad them to j 15 know that tn? trip throttle valva was trippad. 16 Well, by this tima, Bob Morrison was 17 there, and him and Steva Faasol were looking at the 18 trip throttle v31ve. And Steva said, Well, tne
- 19. valve isn't open yet. So tnen tusy took it back 20 tna otnar way, and it openad tne stam of the valva.
21 So I wss on tha phone while they were 22 physically opening the valve. 23 MR. BEARD: 'Can you explain something to 24- me. Wnen you -- atter you had broken tnis seal ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
59 1 wire and then you cranked down ca it and reengaged (^s k- 2 tha long shatt rod you are talking about, at that 3 point, should tha trip valve have coopensd? 4 JEFF MELEG: No. That was just r312tching 5 eno moenanism. Then you hav: to taxe tha nand 6 wna91 in the other dir3ction. 7 MR. BEARD: And then open the valva? d JEFF MELEG: To opon the stem, to open 9 the seat. 10 MR. BEARD: Then you snould nava tiow? 11 JEFF .4 E L E G : You should nav9 steam then 12 up to tha govarnor. MR. BEARD: Had you raopenad it? (]) 13 14 JEFF MELEG: Not much. 15 MR. aEARD: W ha t I'm trying to understand J 15 is was the reason that you couldn' t get it to work 17 bacause of s o.n o maltunction in tne trip mechanism 18 or becaus2 it hadn' t bean raopened yet, or what was 19 it that S tave Fossal_saamad to be conveying to you? 20 JEFF MELEG: That tha valva' position on 21 the stam, you can only sae about maybe an inch or
- 22. about three-inches on the stam $nd the lighting is l 23 very poor. And it's hard to, you Know,;with all m 24 the things going on, to notice a movement of two ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
60 1 17ches down in tha darx section of tha valva. So ( )
%d 2 Steve was the one that pi:K0d inat up.
3 CHRIS BURNS: I don't 2ven thinx it moves 4 two incnas. I'm not suro, but it doesn't move very 5 muen. 6 JEFF MELEG: It doasn't move vary far. 7 CliR IS BURNS: The valve itself. 3 MR. BEARD: das that becausa of soma 9 malfunction or because you hadn't turned it open 10 anougn? What was tha causa of that, as far as you 11 are swara? 12 JEFF MELEG: As far as I Know, I really {} 13 don't remember whethar the valve trippad again or 14 whether I didn't open it far'enough, because I know 15 those aux taadpumps rotate at a very high spaad and 16 it was going in the bacx of my mind that wa were-17 naving proclams with things pulling hangers out of 18 tha wall, and I Kn?w we nad a lot of pressure in 19 tha st:am ganerators and I was really kind or leary 20 about blasting that turbins with a big chunk of 21 staam. 22 So I really am not that familiar with 23 operating the valve manually under this type of'
~s 24 condition.
^N) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
61 1 MR. BEARD: I und a rs ta nd. i L/ 2 JSFP MELEC: So I was 12ary. 3 Cil R I S BURNS: Wa don' t normally oporata 4 the turbine with tna trip throttla v21ve. 5 JEFF MELEG: Yeah, with tha trip throttle 6 valve. So I was trying to ba sare about it, 7 becausa if there was sometning I did not know about 8 the valva, I didn't want to go anaad and blast it 9 with nina hundred pounds of steam. 10 So this all occurred in a very snort 11 period or time by the time Steve and Bob got back 12 down there and I was still trying to communicate ID L.) 13 with the control room. It was cutting in and out 14 and it was a very frustrating thing to try to do. 15 MR. BEARD: So at this point then, Steve 16 F e a s'3 1 and maybe some others indica ted, Bob 17 Morrison hare indicated the valva h a d n .' t raopenad.
- 13. Tnan wnat did you do? You say you twisted it by 19 handi 20 JEFF MELEG: Thay did. And now I guass 21- Marx came down and ne was just line standing by 22 looking around and seeing if he could notice 23 anytning to whero he could nelp.
,- 24 MR. BEARD: Thank you, t.
v
)
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS I !1 C . (202) 347-3700 f
62 1 MR. ROSSI: Now, why don't we go back to
,fq .
UJ 2 you, and describe wnat you did with auxiliary 3 foodwatar pump one. I thinx we left you at the 4 door to the room?
$ CHRIS BURNS: I opanad the door and want 6 in the room, and I noticed that the trip throttle 7 valve had t r i p p >a d . So I took the lock wire orf, 8 the same thing ne did, and rasat it. When it went ,
9 to the ooen position on tn2 trip throttle valve, it 10 took it until it stoppad. And I figured tne trip 11 throttle valva was opan. I looked at the rpm 12 indication, and it indicated zero and I heard no
; 13 steam noisa.
('J 14 MR. ROSSI: Let me go bacx_a minute. The 15 tirst thing you did was you had to crank the valve 16 all the way closad; is that correct? 17 CHRIS BURNS: Right. 18 MR. ROSSI: The hand whsel to the closad 19 position, and than it is supposad to latch. And 20 than you turn it back again? 21 CHRIS BURNS: I nad trouble with tne 22 latch staying latchod. 23 MR. ROSSI: So you wars at the closed
-s 24 position and tried to latch it, and you had trouble N ..) \
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS IdC. j (202) 347-3700 ] l l J
63 1- getting it latchad. Go ahead and describe it. (~) kJ 2 CHRIS BURNS: I had to manually nold the 3 latch while opening the valvo. I hold the latch to 4 maxe sure it would connact because the latch is 5 only - it's got a vary small surface space tor it 6 to latch.
-7 JEFF MELEG: Quarter inch. ,
a CHRIS SURNS: Quarter inch or less. And 9 you know, I wanted to maKe sure it was going to be l 10 latched. And whan I first reset it, it just didn't 11 catch on it. 12 So I held it, and then I opened it up as 13 far as it would go, and nothing happenad to the (~)h u 14 turbins, and no rpms, no steam noisas, no anything. 13 So I looked at tne turbine, looked at tha 15 governor, it had oil in it, so I proceeded to go to 17 No. 2 with him, because I didn't really suspect 18 what else to do at that point. The turbina 19 throttl3 valvo had been relatchad, and I had no 20 control over the governor system. The control room 21 has control over it. 22 MR. ROSSI: Now, there is a speed
~23 indicator there, and tha t's what you lookad at?
24 CHRIS BURNS: Yes. And it indicated zero i I ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 1 e
64 1 rpas at the time. ,h 2 MR. ROSSI: But when you left it, tne 3 valva was opened, it w1s latchad and no speed.
'4 CHRIS BURNS: I thins the valva was open.
5 Wh2n you open tnoso trip throttle valvos, it's got 6 some turns on it before it actually raises tha 7 valvo up ott tn3 seat. And I toox it up until it S stopped. 9 ?!R . ROSSI: At what point or it you Know, 10 does that rovert to being capable of being 11 controlled from tha control room? 12 CHRIS BURNS: That trip throttle valvo 13 isn't controlled from the control room. (]) 14 MR. ROSSI: It isn' t? 15 CHRIS BURNS: No. 16 MR. ROSSI: So you have to opan it -- it 17 would normally sit open? 18 CHRIS BURNS: Correct, and latched. 19 MR. ROSSI: It'does not move to control 20 the speed. Tnst's done with something elsa? 21 CHRIS BURNS: Right. Tha t's done witn 22 One governor valve. 23 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 24 MR. BELL: Havo althar of you two O \._ / ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
1' ( C y & 'f{ h ' 65 1 gentleman had to perform this evolution or was this
. ,Q A/ 2 the first time you had ever reset and opened tnat 3 trip throttle valve?
4 CHRIS BURNS: No. I can remember I hava 5 done it once before, but I was assisting another 6 opsrator when he performed tne ST. 7 MR. BELL: Mr. Meleg, is that true tor
'd you?
9 JEFF MELEG: I have Ecsat it and latched 10 it, but not under these type of conditions, full 11 live steam conditions. 12 MR. BELL: So prrt of the surveillance () 13- test involves manual operation of this trip 14 throttle valve? 15 CHRIS BURNS: Correct. 16 dR. SELL: And from what you two 17 gentlemen tcc telling me, you performed thio 18 surva111ance test before you and -- 19 JEFF MELEG: With no DP across the valve. 20 MP. BELL: I undarstand. 21 CHRIS BURNS: I have assisted another 22 operator that was parforming tha ST. 23 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So Mr. Burns than, you
, 24 procaedad from auxiliary feedpump one to aux V, g ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 N- _
.l 66 4
1 feedpump two. And go ahead and describe what you l
.' O- !
2 did thare?
, 3 CHRIS BURNS: I went to No. 2, and Mr. ,
4 Meleg-had-just finishad rasetting it. We looked
'S and we had no steam pressure or there was no rpm.
6 indications. I heard no sound of any s team. You
'7 -can tall if.there is any steam, and we had no 1
( 8 indication of this. 1 9 .He went to the phone. I was looking at 1 .l'O the turbine itself and oil levels. And just 11 soconds later, Bob Morrison come running down the 12 stairs, and right behind him'was Mr. Faasel. O 13 And Mr.'Feasel proceeded to sbart up the 14 startup feedpump. I'm.not clear on what ha.did ! , 15 exactly or what was going on.: But I do remember 16 him coming over to us or to Jeff, I think, to toll ) 17 him to'tell:the control room they had flow from the 18 -startup1faedpump. ! 19 And then'Mr. Morrison was checking'out i l 20 the No. 2, and you can ask him what he did from j 21 then on. ? 22 MR. ROSSI: Okay. , i
'23 CHRIS BURNS: And than I assisted'him and j ()- 24 Mr. Passel'on tha auxLfeedpumps..
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202)L347-3700 ; I _x._ , - , _ . . . _ . . . , _ . . _. . _. . . . . . . . , . - , , , _ . , -,
r-67 1 MR. BEARD: Can I get a point of 2 clarification here? It seemed like tnat what you 3 are'saying, Chris,'is that when you want down the 4 room, you and Jeff were the first two guys there, 5 and he was on the phone. You were working on aux 6 feedpump two, and I believe you had it up and 7 running? 8 CHRIS BURNS: No. It was not running 9 while just us two were in there as far as, you know, 10 .as far as I could see, 11 MR. BEARD: OXay. But at some point Mr. 12 Feasel arrived. CHRIS BURNS: Right. 13 14 MR. BEARD: And at-some point lator he 15 informed the control room that I. guess tha t startup 16 pump was available or running or something of that
- 17 effect?
? 18 CHRIS BURNS: Yes. 19 MR. BEARD: So I.guass they would start 20 Li t up in the controlfroom. But at any rato, I'm i 4 21 trying to get in. perspective time wise whether his l 4 22 call back'to ths. control room with regard to the 23 startup. pump was beforo or about-the samo time or h 24 after.your efforts lon No. 2 seemed'to.get it up? ! ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 i i L
68 J 1 Can you tell me, before or after or about tha same? 2 MR.LBELL: . Excuse me. I thougnt you werc 1 r 3 working on.No. I feedpump? f 4 CHRIS BURNS: I was. And wnen I reset- ! 5 the trip throttle valve on No. 1, I didn't get any j. j 6 rpm indication, I went over to No. 2. i 7 MR. BEARD: -I soe. All right. 8 =CHRIS BURNS: He had already reset that. [ 4 i 9 MR. LANNING: Let me ask the question j 10 simply: Was the s ta r tu p teadwater pump tne first
.11 pump to be running in comparison to the two 12 auxiliary feodwater pumps?
i ! 13 OHRIS BURNS: I think so. j 14 MR. LANNING: You don' t know' tor-sure? I i 15 mean, if the pump is running in that room --- l 16 CHRIS BURNS: You know, you can haar it. 4 1 17 I heard it start. 18 MR. ROSSI: You;did hear it. start? f 19 CHRIS BURNS: I heard'it start. I think1-- l '20 let me think for a minute. I think at that tima I 21 neard it s tart, and I' wa s concernad about No. 2
-22 auxiliary f e edwa ter . pump beca use' Mr. Fessel right j 23 next1to me'said, No, tha t's the s ta r tup. f eedpump,
~i O - 24 6 =>= - it va be a =a oa io- - ra ar a v-ACS-FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
69 g ~3 1 just boon starting up No. 2 at tha time. Becauso, A,) 2 you Know, I was concerned that something was going 3 on that wasn't supposed to be. 4 He said tha t's No. 2 -- he said, Tha t's 5 the electric fire pump starting or the electric 6 feadpump starting, the startup foadpump. 7 MR. ROSSI: But when you left the 8 auxiliary feedwater pump No. 1, there was no epm on 9 it when you went to 2? 10 CHRIS BURNS: No. It wasn't running. 11 MR. ROSSI: I would like to hear now 12 somebody else -- does anybody else have a question?> 13 Why don't we haar from Bob Morrison on 14 what you did with auxiliary taadwater pump two. 15 That's'the first pump that you became involved with 16 whan you want into the auxiliary feedwater pump 17 room; is that correct? 18 BOB MORRISON: yes, sir. j 19 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Tell us what you did 20 whan you got there. 21 BOB MORRISON: They worun't running. 22 MR. ROSSI: They weren't running. 23 Neither of tham were running?
) 24 BOB MORRISON: No, sir.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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70 1 MR. ROSSI: How do you know that ona ,s k_) 2 wasn't running? Did you look yoursolt o r -- 3 BOB MORRISON: I believo you just had 4 coma back from tnat room. You turned around and 5 said No. 1 ha dn' t been running and No. 2, you could 6 see the speed was zero. 7 MR. ROSSI: So your knowledge from No. 1 8 was based on what ne told you. 9 STEPHEN BURNS: What Mr. Burns just told 10 us? 11 MR. ROSSI: What Mr. Burns just told us? 12 CHRIS BURNS: Also if you are down there 13 and they start one of the pumps, you can tell (} 14 protty much when it is running. 15 BOB MORRISON: It will have stoam coming
.16 out the drains, and if it just startad out, you 17 will have moistura out of the sentinal valvos and 18 there would be noise through the steamlinsa.
19 MR. ROSSI: So you had independent 20 knowledge of noise and that Kind ot thing to make a 21 judgment that neither pump was running? 22 BOB MORRISON: It was too quiet in there 23 to be comfortsble. 24 MR. BELL: Nons of the three woro running? ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
71 1 BOB MORRISON: None of the three were O V 2 running. 3 MR. ROSSI: Go ahsad and describs what 4 you did when you got to pump two? 5 BOB t10RRISON: That was the closest pump, 6 so I went to that pump. And it was relatened, but ' 7 the valva, the trip throttle valve wasn't open, as 8 I remember it. And I think Mr. Faasal pointed tnat 9 out. 10 I moved around the back of the pump to 11 verify tnat -- to get a bottar view of the valve to 12 maxe sure that was the problem. And then wo went { '} 13 to open on tne vsive, 2nd because of tne DP, the 14 governor valve was wide opon, so tno DP was all 15 across the trip throttle valve and it was very 16 difficult to open. As a matter of fact, I used a 17 valve wranch on it. And we brougnt the spaad up 18 with that. 19 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So you used a valve 20 wrench on the auxiliary foodwater pump two, trip 21 tnrottle valva, and it was -- 22 BOB MORRISON: Rignt. 23 MR. ROSSI: Tell us as much as you can ,_ 24 how hard it was to open. I mean, you had to uss a ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
72 1 valve wrench. Can one person open it or with a lot /") (> 2 of force -- l 3 BOB MORRISON: Just one. Tners was more 4 force than -- I mignt have baan able to opan it by 5 hand, but you wouldn't have baon able to control it; 6 it would nave bean uncomfortable. And the valve 7 wrench was right thoro, so I used that. 3 MR. ROSSI: The valve wrench was in tha 9 room? 10 BOB MORRISON: Yes, sir. 11 MR. ROSSI: So you oponed it up, and what 12 did you observo from then on? Did you loox at the () 13 sprod? We could bring th3 speed 14 BOB MORRISON: 15 up. Thsn it came up rapidly in spaod, and I didn't 16 need to open the valva very far to got it up to 17 full speed, la I want to the Gaitronics. They had 19 trouble with ths Gaitronics communicating with the 20 control room. I was talking to Brian Young in tha 21 control room. The Gaitronics began cutting out. 22 MR. ROSSI: This was the phona you would 23 use like a tolophone, not line s hea d s e t? 24 BOB MORRISON: Exactly. We don't have b) x. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
73 1 headsets down there. We have very few in tha plant. (J) N 2 As a matter of tact, wh3n they run a surveillance 3 and thay require a haadset, we hava to find one, 4 and tnan you have to find one tnat operatas and you 5 have to get it down there. 6 So it's not available in the room, and I 7 don' t advocato it being available in the room. 8 It's a pain in the ass. 9 MR. ROSSI: So it wasn't there. There 10 was no headsot? 11 BOB MORRISON: Exactly. They don't 12 believe in having tham lay out in the plant. () 13 MR. ROSSI: So you want to the phona, the 14 Gaitronics, and you had trouble communicating. Go 15 ahead. 16 BOB MORRISON: Prom my position at the 17 Gaitronics, I could see tne spied indicator. By 18 this time, I don't remember whether it was Mr. 19 Moleg or Mr. Burns at the trip throttle valve at . 20 the wrench, then they could control the speed. 21 MR. ROSSI: What were they controlling 22 the speed using? 23 BOB MORRISON: The trip throttle valva. 24 MR. ROSSI: The trip throttle valvo, the
) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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74 1 same one you had to latch and open -- BOB MORRISON: The same one I had to open (~]
%d 2
3 it, yes, sir. 4 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 5 BOB MORRISON: The turbina was running, 6 and I knaw from the sounds in the room that wo were 7 pushing water somawhare, but I didn't know how much 8 and I didn't want to overtill tne generators. 1
- 9 So I got -- I did get through to Brian, 10 askad him how ws were doing. Ile indicated that wo 11 were putting water in the generator, but ho 12 couldn't get control with the governor at this timo.
13 I could saa tha governor from where I was 14 standing at the'Gaitronics, and I could see that 15 the governor was winding back, that it was on high 16 speed stop. It taxas a number of seconds, I 17 believo sixty or seventy seconds, to go from high 18 speed stop to low spaad stop, and it wss all the 19 way cranked out to the high speed stop. 20 So I told Mr. Young to continue 21 decreasing the spaed and see it we could take over 22 control with an auto assential. So he did, and we 23 lot it wind down and wind down, and finally I soon 24 the epma in the pump drop off. So I knew the () ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
75 1 control valve than had control of tha steam flow 2 through the turbino. (J3 3 So I asked whichevor person was on the 4 trip throttle valvo at the time to aae ~if they 5 could open the valvo. You could spin it open then 6 bocause it has got no DP scross it. It spins opun 7 to the full opan, it takes a limit switch and thsy 6 got an indication in the control room it is full. 1
- 9 But at that time, Mr. Young had control 10 of it in manual in tha control room, and no run tha 11 speed up and down a little bit to verify that the 12 govornor appeared to be working, had control of the 1
13 turbino. So ho took it up to its normal rpm, and I O 14 believe he put it in suto essential. 15 And from what I understand, tnen the rest 16 of the avsning, that pump workad okay. 17 MR. ROSSI: So once you got auxiliary 18 teadwster pump two rasat and you actually opaned 19 the trip throttle valve with the pipe wrench and 20 you want through the communications with the 21 control room, it didn't subsequently trip again or 22 any of thst sort of tning, there was some problama 23 in getting control of it, but you don't remember it 24 tripping again? r ( )) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 l
m 76 1 BOB MORRISON: Not that one. 2 MR. BEARD: Could I follow up on that {} 3 point? From the time that you got flow from No. 2 4 aux feedwater pump, do you remember roughly how 5 long you were in the area such that if it were to 6 have trippad, you would have been thero, or would 7 you have already left? 8 BOB MORRISON: I stayad there for anothar 9 I would gussa tan minutas more. 10 MR. BEARD: I was just trying to got a 11 faal, if the pump trippod say savan or eight 12 minutes after you got it running, woro you in tha 13 a r u .s or were you tinishad up and gona? O 14 CHRIS BURNS: I was there the whole time, 15 ac was there tna whole time. Mr. Peasel left wnan 16 they startod. I'm not sure when he left. 17 BOB MORRISON: I believe I lett after the la starter feedpump. 19 CHRIS SURNS: I was there. 20 MR. BEARD: Do any of you remember the 21 No. 2 faidpump tripping? 22 MR. ROSSI: No. 2, after you got it 23 running and you opsnad the trip throttle valve with 24 the wrench, do you remember it tripping again? O (j ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
7 .. 1 77 l 1 MR. BEARD: Maybo triping is a poor word. l 2 Just the thing shutting down, for whataver resson? 3 CHRIS BURNS: Okay. 4 J8FF MSLEG: I don't rumsmber No. 2 doing 5 it. 6 CHRIS BURNS: I don't aither. But whon 7 thay do trip or after it's running and it trips, 8 there is a long coast down time for the turbine to 9 slow down, and you got plenty of time to rosat the 10 trip throttle valve and take the governor control 11 and taxe it bsck up. 12 MR. BEARD: But you don't -- I prasumo 13 trom what you are saying, correct me if I'm wrong,
}
14 you don't remambor having that occur or your having 15 dona tha t? 16 CHRIS BURNS: No, I don' t. 17 MR. BEARD: Go ahead, Larry. 18 MR. BELL: If it had tripp2d, you would 19 nave had to repea t your actions of spinning the 20 trip tnrottle vsive closad and relatching it? 21 CHRIS BURNS: Right. 22 MR. BELL: So that spinning the trip 23 throttle valve closed .i .1 d relatching it was only 24 performed initially whan you got down to the room? I) ACB FSDERAL RSPORTBRS INC. (202) 347-3700 m
73 1 CHRIS BURNS: Right. - i 2 JEFF MELEG: I did that, yeah. ' {a") 3 CHRIS BURNS: I never touchad No. 2's. 4 MR. ROSSI: So atter No. 2 got tnrougn 5 its initial, initial phasa of getting startod, from 6 your xnowledge, and you were enero for somo period 7 of time, at least some of you, you don't recall 8 tnam having any more trouble with pump two? 9 CHRIS BURNS: No. 10 JEFF MELEG: No. 11 MR. ROSSI: Why don't wu go back now, and 12 wnst napponad with pump ons now? We lett pump one 13 with I think Mr. Burns. You laft pump one after O 14 having istened it and looking at'tno speed, and it 15 wasn't running and you wont to pump two. . 16 Now, what next occurred with pump one 17 after two was -- 18 JEFF MELEG: As far as I can remambar, 19 Bob and Steve wore on No. 2 and I was trying to got 20 in touch with the control room. So after I did, 21 after a period of timo, than I wint over to No. 1 22 pump, and I noticed it was zero epm and I noticed 23 that the little governor motor was spinning, but 24 there was nothing -- it wasn't moving. () ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
\
79 . I 1 So I Knsw from past experienca that that (') is 2 particular governor is diftarent than the one on , 3 No. 2 and they were having troublas with the slip 4 disk, the clutch, and that has plaguad tnat 5 particular pump for a while. , 6 So I said, Wow, it's spinning on its 7 clutch. So I callad the control r o o:n again and I 8 said, Well, the clutch must be slipping again 9 becaus2 you are not getting any control over it and 10 it was just spinning on its own, which nas happaned 11 before. 12 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 13 JEFF MELEG: So that's what I did. O 14 MR. ROSSI: Keep going. 15 JEFF MELEG: Tha t's what I noticed. And 16 then I w9nt back and es11ed the control room. Woll, 17 in the m2antime, tney nad gottan that wrench over 18 to No. 1 aux feodpump trip throttle valva. 19 MR. ROSSI: They being. 20 JEFF MELEG: They being Chris -- 21 Cli R I S BURNS: No. 22 JEFF MELEG Who was the first one? 23 CHRIS BURNS: I stayed with No. 2. 24 JEFF MELEG Bob did, Bob Morrison put () ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
80 1 the wrench on tha No. 1 trip throttle valvo. i /~T
\/ 2 MR. ROSSI: Is tnst corroct, Boo? You l
l 3 went to No. I with tha wrench? 4 BOB MORRISON: As soon as he got done 5 with No. 2, I proceedod over to No. 1. 6 JEFF MELEG: And I tried to manually 7 without a wrench just to touch it, and it falt like t 8 it was already open to me. And nere again, I don't ! 9 like to put an oversmount of torque on any valve, i 10 eitner shutting it or op3ning i t, because it's just l 11 not a good' thing to do. You could wreck the valve I 12 or it could pop or tnero is a lot of things that I (} 13 can happan. l 14 So then no put a little bit more umph on i 15 it tnan I would do, and then it came opon with a i 16 little bit of speed on it. i ! 17 MR. ROSSI: Maybe you ougnt to bo tno one, ' l t la aob, to tell us what you did with punp ont and 19 dancribo wnst you observad and what you did? l 20 Boa MORRISON: I romambor having -- I 21 rocollect the first time I scan it it was t r ,i p p 2 d , 22 it w1s not latched. And I don't u n d e r s t.2 n d that l i l 23 trom wnst Mr. Burns sayn. I don't know what l 24 happened in between, but snyway I remember having l ACE FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 l
81 1 to reset it and having troublo with it latching. A
~
- 2 I balieve you have gona down and' looked 3 at it.
4 MR. BEARD: We hava seen it. 5 MR. ROSSI: .v o have sean it. 6 BOB MORRISON: Normally when it trips and 4 7 you run the valve hand wheel down, it automatically
- 8 latchas. Woll, that evening, it didn't. I have 9 saan that bafore and I hava seon wnere we have had f
10 to hold it in the resat positica and then open the l .1 vslva, and that puts prosaurs on that contact point i 12 and it will stay thera then. 13 I'm not suco in retrospect, I never did (]) j 14 look at the tappat, but it may have been out of
- 15 position. I wsan't concerned 2 bout that. I was 16 just concerned about getting tha valve open again.
17 I remember opening it up and I did havo l la to usa thi wrench on that one. It wss very 19 difficult. Aftar it took p
.. the alsck, it was very 20 difficult to opon it. And. I remembar there was a 21 problem trying to hold that thing.
22 MR. ROSSI: S rs it was unistched when you , ) 23 got'over thoro, and you had trouble gatting it
- es 24 relatched and Kaaping it latched?
(_) ACE P E D C A A I, RCPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
d2 i 1 BOB MORRISON: Exactly, because thero is , 2 a spring that pulls it back out into the trip 3 position, and I had to overcome tha spring and hold 4 it in tne rosat position and than open the valvo. 5 And the valve is hard to open because there is a DP 6 across the valvo. 7 I remember bringing up the turbino spood 8 and not getting very far. From my position on the 9 valva, the front panel of the spead indicator is 10 parallol to me so I couldn't sas wnst tne spaad was,
- 11 but it soomed rather low and it tripped on me.
12 And the valve want shut again. It goes 13 shut with quite a bit of force and it scares you (} l 14 because it could slap down. If you caught your 15 finger or somsthing, it could taxe the and of your j 16 ginger off if you got in betwoan any of those pinch 17 points. l la So I remember I had to rasat it again a 19 second time and relatch it and bring it back up. 20 And we brought it up to the normal spead, and wo
- 21 wore gotting'tlow into ths generator.
22 And I'm sorry I don't remember more i 23 clearly what happoned, but I don't rimamber why wo , 24 didn't try harder to put it on governor control. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
83 1 We just brought it up and held it in manual at the f% ls) 2 spaad we wantad. 3 MR. ROSSI: This is with the trip 4 throttle valve you are using? 5 BOB MORRISON: Trip throttle valve. 6 MR. ROSSI: You brought it up and 7 controlled tno speed with it? 8 BOB MORRISON: It was very simple, onca 9 we got it in the area where they were getting the 10 flow they wanted and once it got settled out, it 11 was very easy to changa the flow, because you only 12 had to mova ths valve a little bit. You did nave () 13 to use the wrench by bumping it an eighth of an 14 inch or so, you could move it adaquatoly. 15 MR ROSSI: Did you usa a mater in doing 16 that control.or instructions from the control room? 17 BOB MORRISON: From the control room, by 18 listaning tn it and by looking at tha spead. And 19 than the control room said that was enough, they 20 woro getting adequate amount of water, and than 21 thay took over. And from the rest of tha morning 22 than we controlled it manually. 23 MR. ROSSI: From there? 24 BOB MORRISON: From there at the valvs. O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
. ~_ , .
..,. . . . . _ . . . . . ~ . - . .
7 ? ! 84 [ l JEFF MELEG: Chris and I did that. 2 MR. ROSSI: In controlling it manually, 3 somebody-was communicating I assume, you with the 4 control room, and giving you. instructions from.the ,[ 5 phone: is that correct? i j 6 JEFF MELEG: Yeah.
! 7 LBOB MORRISON: Right.
t 8 JEFF MELEG: I was on tne phone-and Chris i [ 9 was on the valve, and then he said, Woll, turn it 1 [' 10 up a little bit, give me.a little more,. slow it up, 11 speed it up. I would say, Up a little bit, a ' 4 j 12 little bit m o r e ,-- u p . It was between me on the U-13 phona and the person that was on the valve. ( 14 B03 MORRISON: The person on the valve 15 was initially me. l ; 4 16 MR. ROSSI: Initially it was -- a {. 17 BOB MORRISON: InitiallyHit was me, Bob l,
- la Morrison, and after wo made sure it was settled out.
4 i 19 and they wero -- they had water level indication in
~
- 20 the generator or whatever,Ethsy were satisfied in ,
> 21 the control room that everything l'ooked good, then
.22 we could set it at the flow rate wu had established 23 on the pump, than I felt that.it was best for me to {i 1 24 return or go back to the control room and find out
.O { - AC E FEDERAL REPORTBRS INC. 4 (202) 347-3700 ,
85 1 it I was needed somewhere also in tha plant. ('~
\ 2 Everytning seemed to be settlad out in that room, 3 at least semi-normal.
4 So I turned ovar the control of it to Mr.
. 5 Burns, and Mr. Meleg romained on tne phona than tor, 6 ,I don't know --
7 JEFF MELEG: Two hours. 8 MR. BEARD: Two hours? 9 JEFF MELEG: Yeah, Chris and I. 10 MR. ROSSI: So the two of you together 11 for a period of two hours controlled the spaad of 12 that pump locally with instructions from the () 13 control room? 14 JEFF MELEG: Tha t's correct. 15 C il R I S BURNS: Correct. 16 MR. BEARD: And could you, Mr. Maleg, 17 just xind of give us some details about problems la you had with the phone and so forth, it any? 19 JEFF MELEG: Yosh. It was cutting on and 20 off. And you would wiggle the little wire going 21 into the box, and I was trying to find the placa 22 where I could hold it that way and could huse tnam 23 without br3 axing up the conversstion. s 24 And it was also difficult because the
\~] ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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86 1 cord was only about this long and it's not long
/~
(N l 2 anough to -- 3 STEPHEN BURNS: About how long? 4 JEFF MELEG: It was about -- 5 STEPHEN BURNS: Three feet? 6 JEFF MELEG: -- three or four feet and it 7 wa sn' t long enough for me to stick my head around 8 to look at the No. 1 auxiliary feedpump and tell 9 Chris where I could actually look at him with his 10 nands on the valve. I would have to lixo go like 11 this and say up a little bit or down a little bit 12 or whatavar like tntt. And it kept cutting on and ("T 13 off raally badly. s/ 14 MR. BEARD: Would you say that -- I'm 15 asking you for a judgment and you may choose not to 16 answer. Would you say that the cutting in and out 17 hampered your otforts or impedad them to any 18 significant degree? 19 JEFF MELEG: It'-- 20 MR. BEARD: Or was it just a pain? 21 JEFF MELEG: It definitsly raisad the 22 amoant of frustration since we didn't hava a lot to 2a go on in the first place, and communication betwaen
~
24 the aux foadpump and control room was absolutely (-,) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 i
i L 87 ;
.1 paranount. And when this wasn't happening, I
- 1. -
2 didn't know if he was telling me something during i c 3 the cutout periods that I would need to Know. l 1
- 4 MR. BEARD
- Okay. I have a second 5 question. You'mentionsed that the two of you folks
? 6 . stayed down there for~ the rest'of the avsnt, and I l 7 think you saAd something like two hours. r 8 JEFF-MELEG: Yeah. ! 9 CHRIS BURNS: It was mayb-3 a little , I 10 longer. l l 11 MR. BEAR 9: But* roughly two hours; okay? } l 12 Do you remember any or did you have any experience ; t
.(} 13 with that pump oither tripping or being shut down
[ 14 in the neighborhood of thraa to five minutes after l 15 you got flow established or after maybe Mr. 4 i ; 1 16 Morrison actually got it catablished, but do you ' i 17 remember anything tripping or significant speed i j 18 reduction in the time frame of three to five ; 19 minutes after that? 4 4 20 JEFF'MELEG: For some reason, I do-i L { 21 > remember only being able to get fifteen hundrad or 22 two thousand rpm.out'of it. I ( 6 > c 23 CHRIS BURNS: Which one? , gg - 24 JEFF MELEG: No. 1 aux feedpump, and it , i l O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 , V
~ _ - _ . _ . _ , . - . - - . _
. _ . _ . __ ,.-. . ~ . . . , _ _ , ~ . _ . _ . , _ . _ . _ _ . . _ . . _ _
88 1 nad something to do with like we thought tha valve
,O kJ' 2 was already op2nad because it was so hard to move.
3 And here again, not wanting to put an extra numan 4 amount of strength on it for fear of damaging,or, 5 you know, having it break apart just due to 6 something wa were doing with a valve wrench. 7 MR. BEARD: If you have a hard time turning 8 tne valva, does that indicate that there is a 9 strong DP across the valve? 10 JEFF MILEG: It could indicata thare is a 11 strong DP, could have been a scorched shaft, 12 something stuck under the seat. There could be a f^) 13 myriad of problems, wha t makes a valve hard to a 14 operate. 15 MR. BEARD: I'm trying to understand 1 16 hetter why you think tne valve is in some open 17 position. 18 JEFF MELEG: Because of the resistance it 19 gave after we had gottan steam flow. 20 MR. BEARD: How did you know? 21 JEFF MELEG: Because it was indicating 22 about fifteen hundred, two thousand rpm. 23 STEPHEN BURNS: About now far away from 7 24 Mr. Burns were you when you wore on the phone?
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(202) 347-3*/00
89 1 JEFF MELEG: Eight fact. kyJ 2 STEPHEN BURNS: Was it easy to understand 3 each other? 4 JEFF MELEG: Yeah. WO used hand signals. 5 MR. ROSSI: Was tners a lot -- you used 6 hand signals? 7 CHRIS BURNS: Yes. I positioned myself -- 8 this is after both pumps were running and everybody 9 had left but me and him were in tha room. I 10 positioned myself near the No. 1 trip throttle 11 valve and had the wrench and leaned so I could sua 12 nim in the No. 2 room, and he would go like this if () 13 he wanted it raised. 14 MR. BEARD: Tha t's a thumbs up signal? 15 CHRIS BURNS: Or down, raisod or like 16 this to stop. 17 MR. BEARD: Is that customary practice 18 for an environment where the pumps are running and 19 making some noiss I presume to use the thumbs up or 20 down signal, or is this unusual? 21 JEFF MELEG: Standard hand signals. 22 CHRIS BURNS: He's right, it's standard. 23 It's kind of standard. I Know what he meant. We c 24 don't normally do this for any of our pumps. (3) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 L --
w 90
~1 MR. BEARD: That's what I'm saying.
1
/~ 2 CHRIS BURNS: We. don't have them in i b'.
3 manual control. 4 MR. BEARD: Under normal conditions, the 5 noise levol in the room wouldn't be such that it 6 would require you to use hand signals? 7 CHRIS BURNS: Well, normally they should 8 be under the governor control from the control room 9 and we would be just down there watching, you Know, 10 checking bearing l e v e l ,' oil levels and stuff like 11 that, and confirm that tha governor would take it 12 up and down. 13 MR. BEARD: Larry, you had a quastion, I j 14 think? Why don't you ask your question. 15 MR. BELL: If-I understand you correctly, 16 the phone is in.theLNo. 21 turbine room and he had-17 to use his hand signals beca'use the cord w o u l d n' ' t 18 . reach the'No. 1 turbine room to you. He was in the 19 No. 2 turbine room givi'ng you hand signals in the 20 No. 1. turbine room?_ 21 JEFF,MELEG: Correct.
~
22 MR. -BEARD: I have one short question'to l-23 Mr. Morrison. As you are bringing this speed up on
- 24 No. 2 auxiliary feedwaterLpump-turbine, did1you ACE FEDERAL R'EPORTERS INC..
(202)o347-'3700
--_---._.,-._.-s.___ ._,
91 1 notice-that the startup feedpump started or was
.2 that pump already running as you were bringing the
- N'N )
3 speed up? 4 BOB MORRISON: It shows that it started 5 while I was doing it, but I have no awareness or 6 that. I never even heard that. . i !' 7 MR. BEARD: It's acceptable not to , i 8 remember. i 9 BOB MORRISON: Yeah. l 10 CHRIS BURNS: We were kind of -- 11 BOB MORRISON: I understand. 12 CHRIS BURNS: We were kind of-concerned 13 that the aux feedpumps themselvas -- and Mr. Feasel 14 was handling the startup feodpump trying to get it 15 up, and I do remember him coming over and Jeff 1 J 16 happened to be on tne phone at the time and him 17 telling them that they have flow, and I can't ! 18 remember exactly how much flow it was, but it was , 19 :that they did have flow. And I can't remember if
. 20 No. 2 was running.at the time or if he was resetting 21 it or.what-was happening to No. 2.
22 MR. ROSSI: Was '.t h e r e a moderate amount 23 of noise down there? I mean, could youJhave i 24 c'omm unica ted - ve rba lly1o r - wa s 'the re so much noise
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92 1 that that was almost~-- 1
'2 JEFF MELEG: The start feedpump makes
, 3 quite a bit of noise and vibration and racnet. 4 MR. ROSSI: Tne two of you were working 5 together to control the speed 'of No. 1 pump. To 6 what extent did you have or communicate vorbally -- 7 CHRIS BURNS: I know those rooms with all 8 three pumps running, there is quite a bit of. noise 9 and you normally wear earplugs in that area. And I , 10 didn't have a chance to, you know, get them. There 11 is some down there, so afterwards I had put them in. 12 After we got the pumps running, the flow 13 establisned and everything settled out, I did put 14 . earplugs in because the noise was-too-loud. 15 MR. ROSSI: So you were essentially 16 almost totally limited-to communicating by nand 17 signals rather than verbally because of the noise 18 levels in the room? 19 CHRIS BURNS: Correct. 20 MR. ROSSI: It would not have:really been l 21 feasible for you to communicate verbally.. I 22 :JEFF MELEG: . Correct. Screaming and l 23 shouting,'you couldn't do that. 24 MR. BEARD: ~Let,mc~make sure,-I asked a ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 e _
93 1 question a little'while ago and I'm not sure I 2 understood what the. answer was, aven though you may (~) V 3 have given it. I asked if you remember anything 4 about the No. 1 aux feedpump when you are 5 controlling manually with the hand signals and
'6 whatnot. Do you remember anything of it tripping 5
- 7 or shutting down in the time frame of three to five i
8 minutes after Mr. Morrison nere got it up? 9 CHRIS. BURNS:. No. I didn't reset it 10 again.- 11 JEFF MELEG: And-all I noticed was the 12 limited rpm. level. 13 MR. BEARD: As far as you are aware, tha 5 14 . pump pretty much ran straignt and normal with the. s 15 adjustments you made as a result of the control i 16 room l directions? 17 JEFF MELEG: From what I can recall,'yes.
'18 MR. ROSSI: I' wonder if this is-a good 19 time-for us to take a break'to.just. rest for~a
. 20
- littla bit.
21 STEPHEN BURNS: .I would like to ask a
- 22 couple questions, but I.want to back up before you
~
23 .got into that room. I'm backiup on top of the
. 24 grate before you moved it open.
() . ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC; (202) 347-3700 g e7 .w,wy9 A., 9-.- - - . .e > y-. m g-
4 I 94 . -1 As I recall, you say you had.to opan that :
-2 grate with a key. Correct?
}
.3 CHRIS BURNS: Correct.
b 4 JEFF MELEG: On a padlock 5 STEPHEN BURNS: On a padlock. And that 6 -grate, that hatch, as you . call it, is an open grate. , 7 You could see on through down to the ladder that 8 you are going to go down. j .9 CHRIS BURNS: Correct. 10 STEPHEN BURNS: Is'that correct? 11 JEFF MELEG: There is louvers and stuff
, 12 like that. It's not just.like looking through an 13 open grating, but'you can see through. Light will O 14 come through it.
15 STEPHEN BURNS: My question is if for j. 16 some reason, could you have possibly.droppad the
~
17 key down there? I understand you didn't drop'it, i 18 but is it-possible.to have dropped the key down 19 through the grate? i 20 JEFF MELEG: It's attached.to a ring, and i 21 the. ring : morel than likely--would-not have slid'into 22 tneLgrating;
~2 3 S T E P H E N'- B U R N S :~ JAbout'howfbig is the ring 24 in' diameter? ,
ACE FEDERAL 1 REPORTERS I N C '. . I (202) 347-3700' 4 i
95 1 JEFF MELEG: Inch and a half, inch and a (v~} 2 half in diameter. 3 STEPHEN BURNS: Have you over dropped a 4 Kay down through there? 5 CHRIS BURNS: No. q 6 STEPHEN BURNS: Do you Know of anyone 7 else who has dropped a key down there? 8 JEFF MELEG: No. 9 CHRIS BURNS: No 10 STEPHEN BURNS: But you think it is 11 possible a key could fall through that grate? 12 JEFF MELEG: Anything is possible. 13 MR. ROSSI: We can do a test of that, I t 14 taxe the key and test it. 15 CHRIS BURNS: You know, there are places 16 where, you Know, if you drop something in there, 17 you can just reach down between the gra tes and pull 18 it out. But tnere might be open placas in there 19 too. I don't know offhand. 20 MR. ROSSI: B,u t in any avent, if you had 21 fallen or dropped the key or lost the key or 22 whatever on the way, there would have bean anothar 23 series of delays while somebod'y came with another 24 Ray?
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1 96 ' 1 JEFF MELEG: ' Yeah. ] r '2 'CHRIS BURNS: Correct. i q O] - i 3 JEFF MELEG: Definitely. I 4 CHRIS BURNS: There is no way to get that i . 5 padlock open. It's one of those safety padlocks. 6 JEFF MELEG: Super big ones. 7 MR. BEARD: Ernie, were you suggesting we 8 taneJaifive or ten minute break and como back? 9 MR. ROSSI: Yes. 10 MR. BEARD: I wonder if-we are basically.
- q. 11 at the end anyway?
12 MR. ROSSI: Wa can determine that at the j 13 break. , 14 , Why don't we take a break and we can 15 discuss where'we go f r.o'm here, whe thor we are done 16 or not. 17 (Thereupon, a recess was taken.) 18 - - - - -.
- j. 19 MR. ROSSI: We are back on the record.
20 Let's see. W e _ h'a d gotten to tne point i 21 where the auxiliaryffeedwater pump one was being ' ~ 12 2 essentially manually controllad by Mr. Burns and 23 Mr. Meleg working together with instructions from , 24 .the-control room, and you were there~ for'a couple
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I ll 97 ;
)
1 ot hours or more --
~~
cT \s' 2 CHRIS BURNS: Right. l 3 MR. ROSSI: -- controlling that pump
~
4 manually with the trip tnrottle valvo. Is thst tha 5 same one that you used in relatching the overspeed 6 trip? 7 JEFF MELEG: Correct. 8 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't we turn it 9 ovar to others who may have additional questions. 10 Go ahead, Larry, do you have any? 11 MR. BELL: Yeah. I was confused about 12 your s ta tem 2 nt , Mr. Meleg. You said that you were 13 on the turbina taxing readings and as soon 3 .9 you r k_n) 14 heard tne plant trip, you were dispatched to tne 15 control room. You dispatched yourself to the 16 control room? .. 17 JEFF MELEG: Right. 18 MR. BELL: To provido assistance. 19 JEFF MELEG: Stand by. 20 MR. BELL: But Mr. Morrison, you said 21 that there are memos telling you not to do that? 22 BOB MORRISON: Yes. I have it -- 23 MR. BELL: I'm not so sure I want to see 24 the memo because then it will have to -- g ) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 447-3700
t ~ l I 93 !
-'l ,
MR..ROSSI: I think enough.has been said l i7 , 2 - we nsad to have tne memo in the record now. So 3 let's mark the mamo and'put it in-the record. 4 BOB MORRISON: I happened to make you a 5 copy. 6 MR. BEARD: This would,be marked as 7 ' Exhibit 1. 8 STEPHEN BURNS: And what is it? 9 ' BOB MORRISON: It's a Genaric Guidance 10 Memorandum POL-20 dated April 2nd, 1985. It used < 11 to be.Known as Standing Order 27 and it's been out i *
- 12 for a couple of years, and then just recently they
, .13 combined all the standing orders and special orders i 14 and a couple other supurfluous ordwrs under this 15 generic guidance-program. Tha t's when they redated , 7 16 it. t 17 MR. BELL: Was -the purpose of.this to 18 minimize bull sassions'that take place in the { 19 control room and to insure thatEthe EOs are out in 1 20 the plant making their tours? - i- I j .21 BOB MORRISON: Came-out of the lessons i'
'22 learned in:Three Mile Island. Tha t's what it'was i 23 ba s e d L o n .--
f 24 MR. ROSSI: My:und'arstanding-from youDwas, * ' C) L . Ace esoeRAL Re,ORTeRS 1Nc. (202)~347-3700 e 4-t
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99 1 Mr. Meleg, your normal instructions were on a trip ,'~'; 2 you went to the control room. 'J 3 JEFF MELEG: Uh-huh. 4 MR. ROSSI: Does this order here apply to 5 you or just to -- 6 JEFF MELEG: As far as I am concerned 7 about this order, it was fbr like minimizing tne EOs 3 and everybody from congregateing in the control 9 room and possibly distracting the Ros due to , lo bullshit sessions or whatever so we would be out in 11 the plant or in the study room or som2whore elae 12 other than congregateing in th2 control room. 13 But during the time of a trip, I am going C')
\.s 14 to go to the control room to see what's going on 15 and be dispatched, because I know the pnonas and 16 everything, sometimes they work, sometimes th2y 17 don't. You could get misdirected through the 18 phones. So I want to be there and look at the 19 guy's face sad have nim tell me face to face.
20 MR. BEARD: Had your supervisor directed
'21 you to do tnis or'is this sometning you tael you 22 nead to do?
23 JEFF MELEG: That is what we always did 24 and I didn't think this order was refarable in the em (_) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
100 1 trip condition. (~ ') 2 MR. BEARD: To clarify for my own tj 3 understanding, I'm not sure you understand, we are 4 not hero to investigate any possible wrongdoing 5 with regard to this guidanco. That's not the thing 6 we were looking for. 7 JEFF MELEG: I understand. 8 MR. BEARD: Someone elsa may later; I 9 don't Know. But I don't even want to talk 10 personally about it. 11 MR. BELL: I think I have my questions 12 answered. 13 MR. ROSSI: Does anybody else nave (<m) 14 anything else to say about tne standing order? You 15 understood the standing order to mean in your casa 16 that you should just wait there? 17 BOB MORRISON: Yes. 18 MR. ROSSI: And you understood you should 19 return to the control room, or at lesst you had 20 that option of returning to the control room for 21 instructions? 22 JEFF MELEG: Un-huh. 23 MR. ROSSI: Each of you believe you wore 24 replying to the intent of this standing order with
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101 1 what you did. We have the standing order. 77 2 Doas anybody want to ask any more ,V 3 questions on that? JT, do you hava anything? 4 MR. BEARD: On the standing order or 5 anything? 6 MR. ROSSI: Yes. 7 MR. BEARD: I don't think. 8 MR. ROSSI: Any additional questions you 9 want to asx? 10 MR. BEARD: I only hava the general 11 question I asked everybody we interviewed. That's 12 the and of the show as far as I know. 13 MR. ROSSI: Do you have anything more on [b' 14 actions that were taken during the event? 15 MR. LANNING: No. 16 MR. BEARD: Do you want ue to go with 17 that general one I always asx? 18 MR. ROSSI: Go ahead. 19 MR. BEARD: Everybody we intervi3wed, we 20 always sort of wrapped it up by saying we asked you 21 folks to tell us things and we asked you a lot of 22 questions. And I would like to personally, I would 23 like to give you folks an opportunity -- and you 24 can ask your legal representative to l e'a v e or stay n (j ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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hra brw 102 1 as you choose. 2 But is there anything that you think we ' t
) ..
I 3 o,u g n t to know in terms of reviewing facts of this 4 event or indirectly about the plant, maybe morale 5 conditions or anything elsa that you think would be
~6 useful for us'to know or you would like to unload 7 or wnatever7 But I would like to give you an 8 opportunity to speak at will, whatever "will"-is.
9 JEFF MELEG: Yeah, I would probably like 10 to add a little bit to this. I am in no way a 11 disgruntled employee, but I have. bean at other 12 power plants before and I am very observant when it 13 comes to taxing care of equipment because that's i 14 where I work. 15 -I have chosen to freeze myself~ a t Sol, 16 whereas Bob has chosan'not to go on RO. I'm i 17 staying at EOl, and it seems like whenever you [ 18 write a-work request or you see a valve that's leaking I 19 or an indication that isn't correct or if you have 20 a high vibration trip in for weeks and'weaks at a 21 ' time -- not trip, but a.high' vibration ~ indication 22 like on a main feedpump, it just doesn't seem to 23 get taken care of in a timely manner. I think 24 'thrae or four weeks is more than enough to take ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 J g - - ---
, . .. . - _ . . ~. . -. _ . . . -. .
J 103 1 careLof things like that.
~2 And prior to.this trip, I was working 3 with the.No. 1 main feedpump,-the one that tripped 4 initially, and I'had started it and stopped it and ,
t 5 s ta r t a d . i' t and stoppad it for different testing and 6 different probes they would hook up-to the machine i 7 and sverything that they would start it and run it 8 up, and they would come up with a different reason t 9 why it tripped. 10 The first time ~it was an orifice was 11 : causing some sort of.a hydraulic surge and that was 12 giving you the thrust bearing water tread, and then i j.
'13 we started it up again and it trippad again and he t
14 said, Now it's.one of the standby. oil pumps you 15 nave to keep it on or else itlwill trip, and.that i 16 didn't work. Then the last time we exorcised the i 17 problem out of the pump. 18 MR. BEARD: These "they's" are -- who are 19 you talning about, your engineering people? 20 JEFF MELEG: Yeah, whoever' communicates 21 betwaan us and engineering, whoever is.doing the
-22 test. We really aren't involved with it that much.
23 .. I t '. s f r o m what I o v e rhea r.. I was;just the ope ra tor. 24 And prior.to the-feedpump being placed in' () ACE ~ FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
l l 104 l l
.1 standby, the-next day is when they put it on the' '
I 2 line. . I went up and talkad to Stave Feasel and I i
- &' 'N 3 said, Steve, man, this feedpump, it'A going to trip i
4 again, you know that. I.said, Hoy -- I went and !- 5 told him that. He was satisfied with their reasoning' l 6 of putting it back on the line, and I couldn't 7 understand it. But then I'm only an EOl and I do 8 what I'm told. I really don't have to understand f' i 9 it. I 10 MR. BEARD: Let me make sure I understand 11 what you are telling us here, Jeff. _Are you saying 12 that based on your experience at other nuclear 13 ' plants and other places, tha t it's your perception I 14 that the maintenance'is slower here than other t 15 - placas you'have been?. , 16 JEFF MELEG: It's the degradation of the i 17 maintenance. If_you let little sump pumps go bad . 18 and then you let little bigger things go bad for a 19 time,'by the time you look at it, the whole. plant ~ i, 20 is in a state 1of decay that just gets worse and 21 worse and worse. 22 And that's what.I have noticedHis you
,/
, 23 ~ could start out taxing care of everything, but.then
'24 when a big thing.comes up, you-lat.the little
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105 s 1 things slide, and the little~ things tand to pile up ( . 2 benind you and you naver do get them tixed.
~3 MR. BEARD: Do you find there is a 4 difference between the equipment that is not safety 5 required for' tach specifications and those pieces 6 of equipment.that are required?
7 JEFF MELEG: As far as maintanance upkeep 8 on them'? 9 MR. BEARD: Do you perceive any obvious 10 dis'tinctions? l 11 JEFF MELEG: They do taxe more care with .; 12 getting the safety.related systems acceptable and 13 operable.
- O 14 MR. ROSSI: What involvement do you have 15 like when you find a problem with a piece of 16 equipment, what do you.do.in telling people about y
. 17 .that problom'so that it eventually gets taken care , 18 of? 19 JEFF MELEG: Generate.a work ~ request.. 20 MR. ROSSI: You personally can gene ra te a I
'21 work request?' ,
22 JEFF MELEG: Yes.- And once it gets added 4 ... 1 ! ~ 23 to the DBMMS system, it goes ~ on from there. -And I J 24 don't know where it goes on from there, the time ( ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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106 - 1 - f rame ~or wha t's important, how they consider it to
' /T 2 tix this and not this. I don't understand how they : -Q 3 make that decision.
l 4 MR. BEARD: What was the system? You 5 - said when it gets -- 6 ' MARK KLEIN: DBMMS system, Davis-Besse 7 maintenance management system. 8 MR. BEARD:' Davis-Bessa maintenance
; 9 management system. Okay, thank you.
~
10 MR. ROSSI: Wayne,' did you have a f 11 question, or was it the same question? , 12 MR. LANNING: Same' question. I l 13 MR. ROSSI:. 'Do others of you have O 14 . comments on your general perceptions o .' maintenance-1 15 of the equipment and repairing equipment that you
- 16 would like to make? I g a' t h e r not.
17 okay._ In any event, no one is making any ] la more s ta temen ts. 19 Go ahead,-Jr, do ~ you have further 20 que s ti on s? 21 MR. BEARD: No._ I just wanted to throw
- . 22 it.open to you fellows in'tne_ sense of ifiyou had j 23 anything you would like for us to know,.I wanted t 24 . you to1have that_oppertunity. _
i ( ' ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. , i (202)-347-3700 .. J
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I 107 l l 1 And I guess I hear the one comment that r~ 2 Jetf providad us, and I guess I see tha t no one is N.)T l, 3 wanting to make another comment at tnis time; is 4 that the way it is? 5 BOB MORRISON: Well, I would lika to say 6 that during that trip, as a senior equipmant 7 operator, I felt that I was -- there is a potential 8 for me to be held up at getting to any of these 9 areas by all the locked doors and alarm points 10 where I nad to use a card reader. 11 The potential for breaking that card, the 12 tact that I'm not issuad Kays, that I don't have a 13 full sat of Keys to do anything tha t's potantial on [' 14 my job, that it I do naad keys I havo to go up and 15 sign them out, tnat I don't really undarstand. 16 I can agra3 with tne intent of our 17 administrative controls of our locked valves, but 18 the effect of that is tnat it disallows.me from 19 operating those valves. If they strictly adhored 20 to those procedur3s, I don't think that key should 21 nave be issued for AF 599 and 608. That would have 22 required the TBSo, Mr. Fessel or Mr. Layman, to 23 leave the control room and meet one of us down 24 there at tne valve, which I think would nave bacn - O) (, ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 h
108 1 terribly time consuming and. wasteful. 2 It worked out best the way it did I think Q(~~' 3 only because in effect we violatad our procodure. 4 I see that a lot of the regulations you people come 5 up-with get between me and my job, doing my job'as 6 a safety equipmont operator. I see that a lot of 7 pumps lixe this assential equipmant, tney are 8 locked up, they are locked into a position and they 9 are locked into a room tnat disallows me options 10 tor operating it normally. 11 MR. BEARD: Do you have any particular 12 system in mind? 13 BOB MORRISON: The aux f3adpump, I can't O 14 gat into that room because I'm not issuad a Key. I 15 wouldn't have had that key normally. Tha t's a 16 special key to a padlocx, and I wouldn't have had 17 it other than go up and got it. 18 Once I got to it, they had seal wirad the 19 valva shut, and there was other valvas in that line 20 that are locked that we didn't happan to naad that 21 night. 22 The startup feedpump which became 23 important, tnat was the first source of water that 24 we had, that valva is adminis tra tively locked up
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109 i i and/the-suctions and1 discharges of it are locked. 1 2 'Mr. Faasel?took over that, and he was abla to bring " 3 enat back into sorvice. If I had had to do it, I - f 4 wouldn't have had the key, and I wasn't allowad the 5 key. l {
'6 MR. ROSSI: -Which key.would you need?
7 BOB MORRISON: The lock valva kay. 8 MR. ROSSI: Okay. You would have needed 9 that forEtno startup pump also? i 10 BOB MORRISON: Along'with the kay to get 11 into the room of the startup feedpump. And I i-l 12 wouldn't have either-one of them. And th one I'm 4 l 13 not administratively allowad to have, and I'm a 14 senior aquipment ope ra to r. I can't get through my 1 15 plant and I can't get to my equipment and.I c a'n ' t ~ 16 operate it wnen I do get to'it. .And I see that all 17 coming from~the NRC. ld MR. BEARD: Bob, let me ask you something
; 19 so I'm clear I'm understanding what you are telling 1.
l 20 mo; okay? Are you telling me if you had had more 1 . { 21 keys issued to you, that.than as a sanior aquipment. 22 operator you could have bean more usaful in the ' j 23 plant during routine ~ everyday situations, and hance 24 . things like'not wasting time, but particularly
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110 ]! ' 1 ;during this : event, are'you-telling me that you 4 2 could nave baan provided some assistance wnich i [} 3 would' have Kort people from having to leave the f 4 control room? Is that the thrust of what you are _ 5 saying to me? I'm trying ta'get to what's tne 6 bottom line. 7 7 BOB MORRISON: I cartainly don't want any i. 8 more Rays issued to me. I don't want Keys issued ; )
- 9 / to me. I don't want to stop 3L tno door to unlock [
- 10 it.
! 11 I thinK a-lot of these doors tnst are I l 12 opsnad with'a card raader, I think thay can bo [ i 13 unlocked;'loava.the card thero for accountability
- ()
i 14 and put in an audio alarm over the door. 15 I'm not-in security. I figure if thay.
~
16 can't'stop them at the g a t e' , they are not going to 4, j 17 stop~ them at the valve, as far as I am concerned. I 18 But from an operator's standpoint, I see f f 19 I am locked out of.a lot of areas, and I can sea in
- 20 an emergency my; options.are very limitad. You know, i r - 21 I don't want all these keys to drag around; they 22 justIbacom'e'a burden of dragging these kays around. i
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23 JeFF M e L'e G : There is'a nigh level' of. - i 24 failure on these cards. f
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111 1 MR. BEARD: There is a h i,g h level of (v ') 2 failure on thase-cards? 3 JEFF MELEG: High level. 4 MR. ROSSI: They braak? 5 JEFF MELEG: They break. 6 CHRIS BURNS: Mine is brono right now, Jr 7 it's cracked. 8 MR. BEARD: Yesterday we took a plant 9 tour and we were givan visitor cards. 10 CHRIS BURNS: They are similar to thosa. 11 MR. BEARD: And I personally experienced 12 a lot of difficulty in getting it in-and out of 13 t h e. r e .
.O ~
14 JEFF MELEG: They bond. 15 MARK KLEIN: Sometimes thay snap. 16 MR. BEATD: It was very tight. But what 17 I did not appreciate or understand or know was 18 wnathar or not my particular card happonad to be 19 tight because maybe it's a visitor's badge or 20 something. And are you saying -- what are you 21 saying about them? 22 CHRIS BURNS: I would say that is typical 23 of all cards, the ones I have had. 24 JEFF MELEG: Different card readers are e (m',) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 l l l
112 1 aither easy to put in or they are hard. It just 2 depends, and you can't remamber which is which, and I (~} s., 3 you uso the same amount of force and you say, 4 Oh-oh, and it snaps. 5 MARK KLEIN: Sometimes it doesn't read 6 tne card and you have to wiggle it around, or you 7 might have ona door your card doasn't work on, it 8 works on all the rest of the doors, and they can't 9 explain it until you get a now card. - 10 MR. BEARD: Is it your porcaption that 11 it's the particular card readers devices thst are 12 involvad that mayba nead to be adjusted or opanad a 13 little wider or card readers in general? O 14 I moan, obviously as an operator I would 15 imagine that every operator or EO or any other kind 16 of operator in tna plant would like to hava no card 17 keys in tha building and no locked doors so you can la do the job easier. But I'm trying to understand if 19 your comment is related to that general situation 20 or whether it's these particular card readers? 21 JEFF MELEG: It's hard to tall, becauso 22 it changes from lixe day to day, ditferent cards, 23 different people. My card may not be able to work, 24 but his would in one particular door. So I don't
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Obst>1uG } f%<4 W 113 1 Know- wha t the problem is with them. 2 All I know is that the security system V, T 3 computer goes down quite a bit, and they do snap 4 off tne cards quite a bit. And I haven't been able 5 to determine why it's like that, whether it's the 6 system, whether it naeds an adjustment inside. 7 Like you said, I don't know enougn about it to 8 determine the problam, but the symptom is it's 9 difficult to get a r o u n'd , at best. 10 MR. BEARD: Jeff, you are the person -- I 11 believe in affect tha only person here that has 12 worked specifically at another commercial nuclear 13 power plant. Did they have card readers at the LJ 14 plants you were a t? 15 JEFF MELEG: Not the Kind we have here. 16 We had tne Kind wnere you nold your badge up 17 against an infrared scannar, you hold it up to the 18 outside of it and it would scan it and it would 19 unlock door. 20 MR. BEARD: It wasn't a physical 21 insertion? 22 JEFF MELEG: No. 23 MR. ROSSI: Were those more reliable or 24 did you have problems with those also? I i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
114 1 JEFF MELEG: Those saemed to be quite
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reliable. !
/ ') 2
(/ 3 MR. ROSSI: Could each of you tell us 4 anything in tha ar33 of NRC regulations, NRC 5 procedures or plant procedures that you fool 6 interferad with what you had to do for the safety 7 of the plant 4urina this event? 8 You, I thinK, Mr. Morrison, had started L 9 with a number of thos3 items, but I would like to 10 naar from each of you anything you have in that 11 araa, regulations, procedures, things that you even 12 parceive as being NRC raquirements even it you 13 don' t know whether they are or aren't, that may I )
'[ 14 nave in your opinion intorfered with keeping the
-s 15 plant safe during this event?
s,
'N s 16 Doca somebody want to start? You can go 17 through in series.
18 CHRIS BURNS: I will start. I agrea with 19 Mr. Morrison about the locKad valvas and lock valve 20 Key. There is nobody in this room that is allowed 21 to have it in their possossion and we are tne ones 22 that actually have to open the valves and shut them. 23 I maan, it's kind of, you know, you got 24 to them and if they are locked up, there is nothing (~s () ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
115 j l (~'l 1 you can do. I mean, it's got a chain and padlock , %J l 2 on it. 3 MR. LANNING: But has there been any 4 avent where you needed to get to the equipmant but 5 could not and had to go to the control room to get. 6 the key? 7 CHRIS BURNS: In an emergency situation 8 like we just had or normal situation? 9 MR. LANNING: .A normal situation in the 10 sense if you could have gottan to the piece of 11 equipment sooner, you may have been able to protect _ 12 the equipment better or insure that it didn't 13 suffer some. sort of damage. 14 JEFF MELEG: Not in this particular 15 incident. 16 CHRIS BURNS: This is the first situation 17 witn 599 and 608 I have experience with. Other 18 times it's -- 19 MR. ROSSI: Do you believe if you hadn' t 20 had the locks and card readers, it would have made 21 a significant difference in the amount of time that 22 it took to get to the valves and make them work? I 23 mean, did that delay you a significant amount or r^N (,) 24 was'it just the potential that it could have ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
116
; s 1 . delayed you? ,
sl ~ 2 BOB MORRISON: I think in this case it 3 did notLdelay us, but'it-was because Mr. Klein was
-4 ' issued a lock valve key. That's not normal. The
. 5 card readers did work. 6 JEFF MELEG: Tha t's not normal either. 7 MR. ROSSI: Say that louder, because I 8 think tha t's -- these are all important issues. 9 You'know, welwant.to learn what we-can from you 10 -people-that were involved in the event and where 11 you think there are NRC regulations, procedures or J' 12 even perceptions.of things required by.the NRC that () 13 interfered with keeping tne, plant-safe during this 14 Levent, I would like to hear them. i i 15 JEFF MELEG:- Like wha t Bob was saying,- in 1 , 16 this particular incident and the way-things went, I 17 don't think that we were hampered by the locks o r-18 the keys. .Not in this particular incident. 1 19 But.on other pieces of- equipmentf and i 20 'other doors and cooms, I have run across it whore I
; -21 would need to get in-to a particular_ place -- a 22 ' good one is the batteryjroom, the low voltage-23 switch gear room. That door is' locked to the s
24 batteries, and if there was anything going wrong ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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117 1 inside the room, the key doesn't work on the lock.
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2 I nave writtan it on work requests; it still sticks 3 and jams and you_have to jimmy it, which isn't 4 right. 5 Which doesn't hava anything to do with 6 tne fncident we have, but if tnere would nave bean 7 a fire in the battery room, that could have been 3 another incident that we couldn't get in the room. 9 MR. ROSSI: And nad one of your Key cards 10 broken during this event, d?ponding on wnich of you 11 and when it occurred, it would have been a key 12 problem; I mean, it could have been a significant 7\ (_) 13 problem? 14 CHRIS BURNS: Not in my case it wouldn't 15 have bean. I only had to go through one door, the 16 control room door. 17 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 18 CHRIS BURNS: And that has a crash bar 19 and you can crash it from the inside. 20 MR. LANNING: Somebody had a key to ths 21 doors. 22 MARK KLEIN: He had a key to the aux 23 feedpump room. 24 CHRIS BURNS: And that went smoothly. (~') l ACE FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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pp 118 1 MARK KLEIN: He doesn't necessarily nave l 2 that. T ha t ' s a set of' keys-_we sign out. .Some of 3 us need on.our rounds to open certain doors _that
-4 are.. locked to taxe readings. There is no real 5 . guidance; you1have to sign-it out in the front of 6 .the -- in. fact, .I. don't sign the keys out until I 7 need to use them.
8 He may'have_been.a long ways from the
~
9 control room. According to that-memorandum, he
. 10 ~ might--have boen.a.long ways ~ and had to go up 11 through.the control' room _ doors, get the key from i 12 the snift supervisor.to' unlock the_ cabinet, then 13 taxe the'Reys'out, .and than go down'to the aux
{} 14 feedpump room.. Lucxily_he was in.the control room 15 a n'd he had tne keys on his. person.. I 16 MR.-BEARD: Are.you saying if you were 17 icsued some. adequate provision-so you.couldlget
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18 anyplace in-the plant you.needed-to for unusual , i 1 19 s i tua tio ns.,. be it' card kays,. door.Reys, valve keys,. 20 He t cetera, that you think_that-would.have made a 21 significant improvement to the safety;of the pla n t? 22 :Is.that what you'are saying? 123 BOB'MORRISON: Yeah. 24 _CHRIS' BURNS: .Ye. t. r s olu te ly . f];
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-1 BOB'MORRISON: I. don't think it would ,
2 have ' changed'this particular incident. It wouldn't 5 r
-3 have changed this particular incident.
.4 1MR.-BEARD: But you are faced with the !
~
5 possibility-it could go. sour? 6 BOBJMORRISON: Yes,-all the time.
'7 -CHRIS BURNS: Yes. But if Jeff would 8 have' broke the key.off in that lock or dropped it 9 .or broken the key for ~the aux feedpump room --
10 BOB-MORRISON:, Nobody would have got in r, - 11 'there.. 12 CHRIS BURNS: -- we wouldn' t : have gotten 13 . i;n :. u n t i l we would go up.to the control room and got {[ 14 another~ set'of. keys. 15 MR. ROSSI: Breaking.the key-off, then 16 .-aven another. xey wouldn' t have.workod. You would 17 .have had,to cut the lock. Dropping _'the -koy, that
,, 18 -i s going back to the control room ~ and getting 19 another one'fand coming back?-
^ 20 CHRIS BURNS:. -Correct.
- 21 MR. BEARD: -Let me pursua that a step 22 further.. If1you'got to some cardireader and i
- ;23 , snapped a card.off,'would it-be the most i i
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24 -expeditiousething for7you to go.to the control room, l .j 'I ). : ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS
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120 1 or can you get to a plant intercom pnoaa someplace 2 and have tham send somebody down with another. card, . 3 or what would be the best thing to do? What would 4 be the appropriate follow up_ action for that event? , ii 5 CHRIS BURNS: Under normal conditions, I 6 would call one of the guards or call tne'CAS and 7 tell:them my card is broken. They would sand the 8 guard, and they would try to get me a card as soon 9 _as ~ possible and I would just have to tag along with 10 somebody else'that had one. j l 11 MR. BEARD: W ha t about abnormal events-12 like say'a plant trip? Would that still be the 1 13 course of action you think would be appropriate? O- 14 CHRIS BURNS: No. It would-be the factL i 4 15 that I ~ would have to find a_way to=get into the 16 control room to get a set of kays in order for me
- 17 to get-through the door.
18 MR. BEARD: Wha t I'm trying to get to on , i- , 19 the thing is would you either go to'tha control i 20 room or phone up, say, Hey, I got a problem here, 21 send ~somebodyEto help me?~ l 22 JEFF_MELEG: _ You physically have to go up. . 23 CHRIS BURNS: You havalto go up and get-24 . the_ keys. And _-those keys"- < ! ()( ACE FEDERAL' REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 1 1 1
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4 121 1 BOB MORRISON: I think-it would depend
/ 2 wnere you-are at.
3 CHRIS BURNS: Yeah. If you are already -- f '4 BOB.MORRISON: If no's in the turbine 5 building and has to get to the control room lock 6 door,' than there is a Gaitronics outside the 7 control room 1and you can have somebody open the 8 door and lot nim in. 9 .If'you were'in another area of the plant , 10 where you are locked into it, .you have to violate 11 all the card readers going out. You know, it would P 12 all depend on the' situation. s 13 MR. BEARD: There is another point that I 14 want to follow right along this same line, I hope.
~
15 When we had cur tour yesterday,.-I hava forgotten 16 the' gentleman's name that was our guide, ne suggested 17 at one tima there was a crash bar and'that it ~would 18 have-been possible'and it is likely whoever the 19 equipment operatorLwas1axiting that area could very i 20 well have used the-- c ra s h bar, t a k a r. - t h e hit on.the 21 computer alarm for security and gone'on, because - 3 22 .you were In.a, quoto, quasi-emergency situation.
, '23 CHRIS BURNS: Correct.
24 MR.~ BEARD:- Did'that ever take' place F ()' ' 7 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 J b
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4 122
'l .during this event?
2 BOB MORRISON: There is some areas -- no, i f /e% lQ) . l3 not in my experisnee. 4 -JEFF MELEG: There is only one crash bar 5 and that's loaving the control' room; I mean, the 6 one we-were involved with, s 7 MARK-KLEIN: Leaving the araa is the-t
'8 crash bar.- .Getting into them, there is no crash I
.9 bar.
10 MR. BEARD: I was thinking -- it may not 11 have baen a good examplo. Lst.me make up one
'12 hypothetically. Suppose.you had_made it to AF 599
'13 -and you were going to exit th e a r e a and hotfoot it
. 14 over to 608,-maybe tha t's a situation where because
- 15 you.have got a next action tha t's important, .that 16 you would hit the crash bar.-
E i 17 But-I'm really. leading up-to -- tne wnole 18 issue-is .t h a ': are.you aware of any plant provisions i l 19 or proceduros'where-during a plant ame rg e ncy 'tha t' i 12 0 soms not'ification-can be given to'secur.ity that l l ~ 21 they. sort of basically unlock the plant for you? 1 4- ! 22 -BOB MORRISON:- No.. 23 Cli R IS BURNS:- No. l
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s l , 24 BOB MORRISON: I'm'not.awarelof it. j() ACE' FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.- L
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1 MR. BEARD: Is there.. capability of that 2 sort of emergency response? i 3 JEFF MELEG: Not that I'm aware of. 4 MARK-KLEIN: The guard said the reason he 5 didn't stop us and talk about it was because-ha 6 could see: things were going on and th.t we were 7 busy,~but we weren't awara.of any provision for 8 that~or anything.
'9 BOB MORRISON: -Along tha same line, to 10 get into RACA, you card into the RACA.
11 MR. BEARD: Thats' radiation control area 12 point? 13 MARK KLEIN: Where you sign in and card O 14 in, I had to card in that-night. :To go into those
' 15 rooms, I had to card-in to each one of the rooms.
16 On=the onas with-the crash bars on the way out, I'm 17 not quite sure -- I could have crashed th2m to get
-18 out.of the room and'I could hava.got into the naxt ,
19 room. However if I had crashed that_ door coming 20 out of RACA where thare-is'a card reader or i f: I
~ 21 violated any'of.the doors-with a key whero there is-
~
22 a card readsr, then for. accountability for the 23 security computer, it. puts 1me in a different area 24 than Izactually am in, and then from there'on the !
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124 1 computer is confused and my._ card will not work in t- 2 any_ subsequent areas.: 3 3 :JEFF-MELEG: :That's correct. J 4 -MARK KLEIN: If you crash it, it still 5 chas you on_being on tne otner side of tne door ana ,
- 6 it won't let 'y o u . o u t .
4 7 MR. BEARD: That sets you up for the kill. r
'8 MR. ROSSI:- So if you had to use the 9 crash bar, once you use the first crash bar, that have-boon perhaps -- and perhaps.you don' t
~
10 would 11 know for sure, but perhaps'that_would have kapt you a. 12 f rom ' going .throug h ' a ny other doorgaven with your ( 13 ' card reader working? , i 14 BOB MORRISON: No. You remsmber when~you i j 15 went~down to-penetration = rooms, you went to AF'599 16 and 608,_and on the way out there was'a c r'a s h bar 17 and a black-button? Those doors aran't like-that. 18 You can' crash-that-door and it wouldn' t af f ect the
- 19 -computer. You can 9 3 t ;in '.th e next one. -
20 MR. . BEARD:. Is that if you hit.the' black i 21
' button?
- 22 BOB MORRISON
- LHit.the button or'not.
23 _The' computer-knows'when you went in 't h e room. They, E /'% 24 use'those' rooms.for accountability._ t Those are thc= D. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202)~347-3700 4
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1 125 1 ones I contend should be open. They can leave it
,7 \_) .
2 there for accountability, but in an emergancy, I 3 should be able to get through that door. 1 4 However, when I was leaving RACA whero 5 there is a crash bar thera, but there is also a j l 6 card reader. If I had not used that card reader 1 7 and crashed that door, I won't have been abl? to S get back into RACA coming back. 9 MARK KLEIN: Or the control room. 10 MR. BEARD: So it sounds as though what : 11 you are saying, there is some variability on thasa 12 dooru. (-) 13 JEFF MELEG: They can set up tha doors in 14 different ways. 15 MR. BEARD: And you have got to know your 16 plant and which doors you can treat certain ways 17 and other ways. 18 30B MORRISON: It becomes automatic.
'19 Lixe the control room doors have card readers on 20 both sides. You'have to use both of them. On the 21 penetration room, you have card readars on one side, 22 and on the_way out you use tha black button to 23 unlock the door or bypass the alarm.
() 24 But the control room door, if you ! ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. ' (202) 347-3700 1 l 1
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=1 tailgate,.thay.use that term, if you went in witn 2 someone else, Mr. Klein opened-tne door and I run j 3 in behind him and not use a card reader, then I 4 wouldn't-be-logged into that area and if there was 5 a card reader..come along, it would have failed.
-6 JEFF MELEG: Give an errcr.
l
- j. 7 -BOB MORRISON: If I crashed it, I would 8 have to stop,' call' security, tell them where I was, f 9 wait for them.to reinitialize the computer and put 10 me in.the right area before-my card would have 11 worked again.
~ 12 MR. BEARD: What sort of time would that () '13 involve? 14 ~ BO B MORRISON: In an amergancy, I _ don ' t-15 know. 'Normally it takes minu tes, five minutes. 16 JEFF MELEG: Five-minutes, depending on 17 .how busy CAS is. 18 MR. ROSSI: Let me ask you this. The 19 card reader computers or computer, I'm not sure 20 which,itLis, . w h tu t happens_when it just has a 21 malfunction in it?
-22 . B O B LM O R R I S O N': - Then the'y send out all the 23 guards and they'go to all the differont areas and:
24 thep ' set there with a. note pad and take your-name ACE FEDERALTREPORTERS INC.
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A . 127 > 1 down, your serial number - .your employee number 2 and.-the time.you entered the araa and log you out. l-3 MR. BEARD:, Then you have a guard there. 4 How do;you get through the door?
- j. 5 BOB MORRISON: They unlock it, just prop i 6 it open. ;
7 MR. ROSSI: What would nava happened that i i S nignt'if tnat had happened? Suppose as part of the 9 avent'you had another malfunction in the card raading
'10 c o m p u t. e r ?
3 11 BOB MORRISON: You could have just thrown
~
i 12 your card away. ,
'() 13 MARK.KLEIN: We would all.have to get
) 14 keys. 1, 15 BOB MORRISON: We wouldL have all had to 3 16 make our way back to.the control room and get a set i
~17 of keys. .And not everybody-gets-the same set of i ! 18 ' Keys. And the kcys I was assigned to that night'in a
19 zone four wouldn' t have' worked on the turbine building
.20 Laida. I couldn't.have got into the aux ~teedpump V
21 room anyway. i s j- . I believe when you go up the shift 'I j -22 i 23 supervisor'.s -of fice, there is a Key cabinet, and
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24 when-_you open it up, there-is a metal band and I l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. I (202) 347-3700. i
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E 128 , d .1 " think there,is six-rings of keys. I think ring six
/N . ...
is the NRC inspector's= keys, and I .believe they i js) =2 3 . giva'him a master set. The shift supervisor, admin
- 4 - assistants get a master set.
'5 Evorybody else.gets a fistful of Keys of
! 6 which better-than half of them you don't evan use, 7 lbut.you get.this fistful of keys and they work in 8 selective doors around the plant, depending on what 9 _ zone you are assigned to. I LlO MR. ROSSI: How do you know which Key
-11 worksrin which door?
! 12 BOB MORRISON: You try them all. ; I 13 CHRIS BURNS: Until you get used to them. ; ] I 14 JEFF MELEG: Memorizo the numbers on keys 4 t 15 for the door, i 16 MR. ' BEARD: . I-guess I'm - let me asx you l 17 if I am'getting the right feel here.- I am getting-, .
- 18 the perception this Ray business is. impeding you in
- 19 : doing your. job maybe on an everyday basis, but more 4
i 20 i.aportantly.it has a strong potential for impeding i [ 21 your ._ jobs-which may atfect safety? , 22 JEFF MELEG: 'I-think'it could be a weak I' 23 . point. r 24 BOB MORRISON: I-feel tha t.'
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129 1 MR. BEARD: Let me go back to, it my () 2 understanding is clear on that, Ernie's question 3 earlier: Do you have any other areas you would 4 like to speak to us about of where your p e.r c a p t i o n 5 even of an NRC regulation or requirement is 6 intertering with sa t o ty , as you know it? 7 MR. ROSSI: Do you have any comments on 8 the offects on morale or taamwork or anything like 9 that that you perceiva are affected by NRC 10 regulations, requiromants or, you know, that you 11 even perceive are affected by those things? 12 JSFF MELEG: I think there is a 13 skiddiness, lika whenavar an NRC inspector is ('/ w
)
14 around. Liko, get out of the control room, NRC is 15 coming in_here. Get out of the control room. Go 16 maka yourself scarec, do your readings, but don't 17 interface. Don't let him see ma becausa they might . 18 think I don't look professional enough to be in the 19 control room or operating something. They are 20 really concernad with-how we look. 21 STEPHEN BURNS: Who is they? 22 JEFF MELEG: Anybody from management all 23 the way down. They coma in, liks if we are sitting 24 in the control room after turnover, the say NRC is (__) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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130 ; 1 on their way up, get out of there. Only the ROs ; / % (_) 2 are supposed to be in there. 3 MR. BEARD: Let me understand your 4 comment. It's your perception someone would like 5 you to appear more professional or is it the fact 6 that possibly you can be taking a break and having 7 coffee up there aftar working yourself to death for 8 four hours and that happans to be when NRt comes 9 along.and it appears you are loitering? Which ara 10 you trying to convey to me? 11 JEFF MELEG: Just your general 12 appaarance. If you are up and on the line and ("T 13 producing, there isn' t a lot to do out watch what (_) 14 you are doing, take your readings and Keap your 15 eyes and ears open. Other than that, you go up to 16 the control room, find out wnat's going on, do STs 17 and pts. 18 MR. BEARD: Your physical appearance is 19 what you are trying to convay? 20 JEFF MELEG: In my personal case. 21 MR. ROSSI: Anything else along these 22 same lines? 23 MR. BEARD: ll a d thers been any labor 24 problems that are worth mentioning? (3 '^# ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
131 1 JEFF MELEG: Not as far as the plant ()
,m 2 activity goes. I'm fully contident of the 3 operators we have out there. I have a lot of 4 respect for all the people we work witn. We worked 5 a lot of years in nuclear power, so everybody is 6 really competent. I faal very comfortable being 7 with our group of operators.
3 MR. BEARD: Are you telling me that while 9 there may ba some labor or contract questions in 10 the air, that that in your opinion would have no 11 offect on plant oporations? 12 JEFF MELEG: Not as far as I am concernad. ('] 13 I haven't noticed it.
%j
, 14 MR. ROSSI: Anybody nave any other 15 questions? 16 MR. BEARD: Yeah, there is one minor one. 17 Are you awars of any situations whare equipment nas 18 been damaged that may appear to have been done 19 deliberately which would be important to discuss? 20 Any of you? 21 CHRIS BURNS: No, not at all. . 1 22 BOB MORRISON: I don' t know of sny i 23 personslly. There was some rumor a couple of we3ks l l
,, 24 ago, they called tne FBI or something. But I don't A_/ ACE FEDERAL RE,ORTERS P INC. l l
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132 1 have any firsthand knowledga of any of tha t.
- ) 2 STEPHEN BURNS
- . Has anyone from the
!: 3 company' told you to.say anything particularly to us ; 4
~
4 during this intorview? I ^ 5 BOB MORRISON: Only to be discrete, to be --
! 6 I don't mean discrete. To bo; straightforward and 7 honest about.tha whole thing.
t' 8 JEFF MELEG: To tell the truth ]~ 9 -STEPHEN BURNS: Did any operators, Mr. 10 Young, Mr. Walleman, Mr. Feasol, Mr. Lehman, tell j 11 you ~ to say anything? 12 BOB ~MORRISON: No.' . , 4 4 13 JEFF MELEG: Not at all. t
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14 . CHRIS - BURNS : - ~ Told us to tell you about ! 15 everything, whatevar you want to know. 4 $ 16 MR. BEARD: What about legal counsol? 4 l 17 CHRIS BURNS:: Tha t's exactly what legal 3 ! '18 counsel told us. f l , o 19 "MR . BEARD: What about the union? l l 20 CHRIS BURNS: The ' labor union hasn't l-21 talked to us. I don' t even know what's going on i 22 ~ myself. l 23 MR. BEARD: .I'm trying to -- l 24 BOB MORRI' SON: Mr. Young, he's our union ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. i '(202) 347-3700 l i
133 t 1 re pre sen ta tive , and even he hasn' t said anything. l
- () 2 MR. ROSSI
- Okay.. !
3 MR. BEARD: Anything else you wanted to j 4 say to.us or is that it? Have we covered the - j
; 5 waterfront? Was there anything else you. wanted to t
i
-6 say, or'are we. finished?
7 BOB MORRISON: I think.you did bring up 8 the point.about.the.how doos the NRC affect plant 9 operations, whether it's safe or not. Tha way I 10 perceive it is you are all-powerful, you all have 11 the hammers: , you tell us ~ where we go. When you say ! 12 shit, we don't say how much: we squat. i 13 CHRIS BURN 3: Or what color. 14 ' BOB MORRISON: I don't'know if you people 15 dictated that letter, but-the effect -- 16 MR. BEARD: The letter, you are referring 17 to -- i 18 BOB MORRISON: The generic guidance 19 procedure-or.any other item,. guidance or ope ra ting 20 procedure. I~maan, as an equipment operstor,'all I 21 see is as it comes down to.me. -I don't1 know where
' 22 - it originates, but I'm sure that it must all --
the
)..
23 ball must get' started either in Bethasda or Region 24 III, and I see the company make tremendous efforts f
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134 1 to meet any guidelinas or anything -- . ('3 (_/ 2 JEFF MELEG: To comply to the letter. 3 ; BOB MORRISON: Yeah, to comply to the 4 letter. I have never seen them try to mova a r o u,n d 5 any issue or, Well, we will do this instead and 6 that will satisfy them, or we won't tell them that; 7 they will.never know about it. 8 But I soon the- running scarod and I sas 9 myself running scared. I am more uncomfortable in 10 this room this morning than I was in the aux 11 feedpump room Sunday morning, and I had the whole 12 plant on top of ma Sunday morning. 13 MR. BEARD: Why are you uncomfortable? {~)T u 14 W ha t's the worse thing that can happen as a result 15 of this interview? Could you lose your4 joo? 16 BOB MORRISON: No, not for this interview. 17 MR. BEARD: Why are you so uncomfortabla? 13 BOB MORRISON: Woll, maybe I could losa 19 my job. Maybe I could bccause of what the Blado 20 says, because of what the paper says, because of 21 what comas out of the hearings and i t gets out to 22 the general public. And public opinion is so 23 against nuclear, we may and up shutting it down, we 24 end up shooting oursolves in our foot. Rather than (D ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
rs 1 135 - ~1 2 helping'the plant with a commission like this, it f I 2 ;might go against us. 3 .I'm not sure in what vain, but you had to 4 follow the publicity on Tnrse Milo Island. But it 5 wouldn't be because of anything I said here today. 6 It would. jus t be tha t Mr. Williams says, That's it, 7 no more nuclear power. This is not cost effective. 8 MR. BEARD: You are referring to a , 9 general cutback of people, is that what you are i 10 talking about, that could result from some general , 11 situation -- 12 BOB MORRISON: Yoah. The commission, you - 13 might make a recommendation that said, This place 14 should never go back on the lins'again, and tha t's 15 it. Whore am I as an equipment operator? That's' t
. 16 about the last thing-you are going to need in a
> 17 cold iron situation. Ne are all out thera on the is
- road then. I sea that.
19 And I.ses -- my brother-in-law callad me r 20 from San-Frsncisco the other night 2 .1 d asked my i j-21 wife WasfI okay, they neard'it on the news, the .i 22 p l a n t', there was a= big thing at Davis-Besse, wha t's l l'
- 23 ' going,on out there,.and'I think we all had that.
24 Your parents talked to you; tney call up, this is .a ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 9 t . L_./-- . - - - - - - - - - - . . - - - - - - - - . _ _ - - - . . . - - - - . . . . - ~ - . . - - . - . . - .
136 1 big deal. (y) ( 2 And here we are, by turnover Sunday 3 morning, there the plant was going to cold iron, 4 stable with no equipment damago,'really haven' t I 5 don' t balievo dastroyad anything, we tasted some 6 theorums, but -- you know, we nad our problems, but 7 it wasn't anything really significant. But gees, 8 look how the public is all aware of it, or maybe 9 it's my pcrception, because they sie it in the 10 paper. 11 But we get a lot of negative press 12 releases. We hear about our Con 9:assparson Marcy 13 Kaptur going to push for a congressional committeo (~}
'a 14 to invastigata this. I can seo tnis boing the 15 first stop --
maybo I'm being paranoid. You must 16 liva with this all the time? 17 JEFF MELEG: It could snowball. ld CHRIS BURNS: I was home watening the 19 news Friday night or Saturday nignt, and th3y said 20 that the wnole incidant was due to operator error. 21 JEFF MELEG: Pushed the wrong. buttons. 22 CHRIS BURNS: And this is what tn3 NRC 23 said. And I believe it was you that they interviewod 24 or one of you they inviewed, and you never said p) s ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
137 1 anything like that at all. And I don't know -- I
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(,_) 2 know how TV gets their news; you Know, they cut 3 things up and thay print what they want. They 4 don' t print exactly what was said or anything else. 5 JEFF MELEG: I still don't taal 6 comfortable around NRC inspectors at tha plant, 7 becausa you never know wha t's going on in their 8 mind. They mignt sac you do'something, you thinK, 9 Was I horo, did I do right? You're raal sxiddish. 10 They don't como to you; they talk to your 11 supervisor. He wasn't ovan there and he don' t know, 12 and then all of th9 sudden a directive comes down 13 from the NRC. n%) 14 MR. BEARD: tia s anything explained to you 15 botore this interview this morning with regard to -- 16 lat's say, a hypothetical situation -- whara it 17 turnad out in the interviaw that maybe you had dona 18 something contrary to the requirements somoplace, 19 was anything discussed about that? 4 20 BOB MORRISON: No. 21 CHRIS BURNS: No. 22 MR. BEARD: Was anything explainad to you 23 about the purpose of this mooting?
- , 24 JEFF MELEG
- It's fact-finding.
\>' ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 l l
138 1 CHRIS BURNS: Fa c t- finding . The company (*3 (/ 2 lawyer and Bill O'Connor explained to us what all 3 this was and that you are just hora -- l 4 BOB MORRISON: They ancouragad us to tell 5 you everything wo knaw because tnat was tna fastest 6 way we could get overything claarad up and got back 1 . l 7 on line. l l 8 MR. BEARD: Let ma go back to som3 thing I l 9 you said aarlier, if I can. The impact ot NRC l ! 10 requiromants and the company's response to that, is t i 11 it your perception that basically everything that l l 12 your company does is pretty much a direct result of r% 13 mandatas from NRC or is it possible that the 14 company has a general manda te and than the company 15 ovarreacts and therefore tna directives tnat como 16 to you as individuals are strongar than the NRC 17 really nsoda, or vnataver? 18 JEFF MELEG: Tha t's a possibility. I 19 don't know how the machinery works upstairs. 20 CHRIS BURNS: This is what -- we don't 21 know really which ones come from NRC. 22 MR. DEARD: I guass I'm trying to ask for 23 your impression. Do you beliava that svarything 24 that you get tha t you don' t like an a directiva or b ~ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
r 139 1 it may appear to be unnecessary or ridiculous la an (3 ( ) 2 NRC mandata, or do you perceive it as some of this 3 is your company's reaction to NRC requirements? 4 BOB MORRISON: Wall, I certAinly don't 5 sea any of it being ridiculous, but a lot of it is 6 frustrating in my job. 7 And I also know from reading some of the 3 moaos that come througn, line on requirad reading 9 to the foremen and that, that you don' t 10 specifically issue a directive unless somothing 11 line the othar night happened and you say go to 12 Mods 5 sad stay thero. Basically it's guidelinas {} 13 and the company puts it into their own words. 14 MARK KLEIN: I've had the impression it 15 was more or less like commitments. The way I 16 understood it, it was like somotning would be wrong 17 or something wouldn't be working right and the 18 company will say, Well, we will do this to tix it, 19 and then NRC says, Tha t's good, and than you make 20 that requiramant and than tha company has to do it. 21 'EFF MELEG: From then on. 22 MARK KLEIN: From than on. It saams to 23 me like you can't taxe away the requiremonts. 24 JEFF MELEG: Line thaca is no feedback. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
r- .. i i 140 ! 1 Like, after a directive or a commitmant is mada, (^T 2 there is no toedback ganaratad ta use whather this (_/ 3 really does, in fact, make-things botter. Once it 4 ,is in the law or the rules, tha t's it forever, 5 whether it's good, bad or indifferent. 6 MARK KLEIN: Everything scams to kaap adding 7 up and adding up, more paporwork. 8 MR. BEARD: Would it be moro a ppropria te 9 for the NRC to como back and suggest relaxation 10 from prior commitments or would it be appropriate 11 that the company go to the government and say, We 12 nave baan doing this tor a period of timo. Here is 13 our present situstion and we think it's appropriate 14 to qusch -- 15 JEFF MELEG: Howavar it works. 16 MARK KLEIN: You ougnt to detinitely got 17 together. 10 JEFF M E L'E G : I'm under tha im p r e s s i o't 19 there is not a wholo lot of communication betw2cn 20 the NRC and wha t's actually going down out hera. 21 MR. BEARD: At the plant? 22 JEFF MELEG: Yeah. 23 MARK.KLEIN: It saams like -- I got the 24 impression at first the NRC is supposed to be helping ACE FSDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
141 1 the company, and than I start to got the impression T s ,/ 2 they are like a policing agency trying to find 3 errors and trying to find things wrong instead of 4 guidance. So it makas us Kind of nervous about the 5 NRC. 6 JEFF MELEG: It seems like they like to 7 attack symptoms inst 3ad of tha actual root of the 8 problems. They take care of symptoms, but you 9 anould taKe care of the problum. I don't tninx a 9 10 lot of that occurs. 11 MR. BEARD: Thero is ons last question I 12 would like to pursua and than I will stop. I will 13 try again to stop. Is it your parception these { 14 requirements or commitmants or whatnot coma out of 15 high levol discussions between the NRC headquarters 16 or tna regional administrator to your high lovel 17 corporate peoplo or coma out of your plant 18 ..n a n a g o m a n t through tha ragion, or is it the 19 residents that worn nere? 20 JEFF M E L L: G : I don't Know how the 21 machinary works. 22 MR. BEARD: Okay. 23 CHRIS BURNS: I don't hava any idea. I 24 xnow what my shitt supervisor and the assistant ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
142 1 that works with us say, but you know, they are I 2 .saying here is what 's i handad down. 3 MR. BEARD: Okay. 4 CHRIS BURNS: There is usually somebody's 5 signature -- lixe on that one, most of them have 6 signatures like J. P. Williams, Chairman of the 7 Board, and~ stuff like that, people I don't even see, 8 only when thay como in the plsnt. And when they_do, 9 I make myself scarce. 10 MR. ROSSI: Larry, you had some questions. 11 MR. BELL: No, sir. 12 MR. ROSSI: Anybody else have any-13 questions? 14 BOB MORRISON: I would like to alaborate 15 on:one thing. Whan we were down in the aux 16 fradpump and using tha hand signals, we use them 17 real often, like in STs. We don't'use them in that 18 particular room. We use them really often. That 19 wasn't invanted that morning. 20 When you are running a pump room with STs, 21 you might be stationed at'ths flow gauge and the 22 other guy is at the throttle. valve, and you tell 23 him to bump it'up or bump it down a little bit. 24 EVerybody is familiar with it. O ACE FEDERAL REPORTEPS INC. (202) 347-3700
143 1 Other than that, I can't think of Q 2 anything. 3 MR. ROSSI: Let me ask you a genoral 4 question about the interview. Do you think that 5 this was a good interview from the standpoint of 6 fact finding, or how did you -- what is your 7 comment on jQst the way_tho interview wont? 8 JEFF MELEG: I think at this point there 9 is practically nothing we could add to what has 10 already bosn takan down in data and interviews. 11 MR. BEARD: I think Ernie is asking more 12 about the conduct of the interview. Have we been 13 too hard you you or too lax? How did the intorview (] uj 14 go? 15 CHRIS BURNS: I think it went very well. 16 JEFF MELEG: I think it was okay. 17 CHRIS BURNS: I'm not sa nervous as when 18 I first came in. I tnought that the conduct was 19 very good. I don't have any problems with talking 20 to you. 21 MR. DEARD: If someone said that we had 22 been brutsi on you during this interview, would you 23 have agreed with that? 24 CHRIS BURNS: No. C') (s ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS.INC. (202) 347-3700
144 1 BOB MORRISON: I would montion they did (~~ l
'( 2 have a Washington attorney with them and a guy 3 taking a deposition down ovar hora.
4 MR. BSARD: That makas evan me narvous. 5 BOB MORRISON: This guy doesn't evan grin. 6 MR. ROSSI: Unless somebody has something 7 else to say, why don't we and the interview then. 8 So tne interview is endad. 9 _ _ _ _ _ 10 Theraupon, the intarview was 11 concludsd at 11:48 o' clock a.m. 12 - - - - _ l' 13 ( 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (q~ ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
145 1 L 2 CERTIFICATE 3 1, Nicholas Marrone, a Registared 4 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for 5 One State of Ohio, do hareby certify that I took 5 the aforementionad interviaw, and that tha 7 foregoing transcript of such procaadings is a full, 3 true and correct transcript of my stanotypy notas 9 as so taKen. 10 I do further cortify that I was called 11 there in tns capacity of a Ragistarad Profascional 12 Reporter, and am not otherwise inter 2sted in this 13 procacding.
,' ] + /
14 IN WITNESS Wil E R EO F , I have neraunto set 15 my nand and affixad my saal of office at Columbus, 16 Ohio, on this Il day of ) u, _
, 1985.
17 la _LkA h, h , _ g3 NICHOLAS A. MARRONC, Registarad 19 Professional Reporter, Notary Public in and tor the S ta te of Ohio. 20 21 My Commission expires November 1, 1937. 22 23 24 b ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
[ dN,gCOMPANY MEMO-'AZOtJM * ,e g April 2, 1985 All Davis-Besse Station Personnel '. . 95
, SU?, JECT Se. eve Quennoz ,
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ib a Centrol Room Access .
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[ TI, ' , - CENERIC CUIDANCE MEMORANDUM. POL-20'
- ~.k' Oneon was of thethe subject lessonsoflearned Control from'the Three Mile Island incident in March,1979, Room Access.
i Any time a number of people gather' in one, a,rea, a person's ab.111ty to concentrate is reduced. . A' particular example of,thisjs.lthe to its: ==m11. size. Control Room Area which is subject to very q11ck overcrowding due . ,- roomslin the~ Control Room _ Area are also small.In' the' same vane, the Shif t S is the area inside the double doors opened by the card reader.. The total area'being addresse In the paat, , the Control, Room Reactor Operators have eixperienced distractions
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which can interfere with their ability to fully carry out- the job responsibilities. , Mainly, these distractions come in the- form.of. visits to the Control Room by Station
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personnel
. alls madewho have no by Station job-related reas~ons for being there, and by unnecessary phone personnel.
safety, it is absolutely necessary that the_ Reactor Operators be as free distractions as possible so they can fully concentrate .on performing their duties' . m This such is asespeelully unit trips or critical partialwhen load the plant'is going through unplanned transients., -?,; runbacks. , __ With this in mind, the following A-guidelines are established concerning visits and phone calls to the Control Room: - 1. Enter the Control Room ONLT if you~have SPECITIC JOB-RELATED~ business there. Af ter; entering the Control, Room ; state your business' to the Reactor Operator andicarry out your function'as' timely as possible.
.what .'you set out to do,; promptly leave the Coctrol Room.When you have finished .
It'is not necessary to, notify or(Shif
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the Reactor. Office. t Supervisor's Operator wheh entering the Cabinet Room, Computer Room, .
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'e'ntry into the restricted _ zoned _in_the_ Control Room.The Reactor Operator 2;imas This zon's is clearly marked by'a stripe in the carpeting. Minimize the time spent in this zone as much as pcissible
..a_
' and leave 1:mmediately upon request from the Reactor Operator.
2..'Calliche Control Room,only when direct communica' tion with the Reactor Operator istecessary to the. performance o'f .one's job. PerFrming a Surveillance Test which involves the. RO:f{a'. good' example - Anl unnecessary call. would be one in . which direct communication'is.,not necessary. to the performance of one's job. I;dl_ing_and asking for plant'_ status' informatioi is a good example of ' this. Plant status information can -be obtained' from.other sources, such as the status board in the PPF and the PM Notes. - e _ 1 -
f
, (Control Room Accato * '
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- 3. In the event of an unerpected unit trip or transient. only personnel necessary to analyze and gain control of the event should enter the Control Room. All other personnel shall leave imediately and not return unless requested. In . .
general, a few individuals who hold key positions,should gather initial details .' and then leave the Control Room to'put into motion whatever actions are necessary.;', 4 Training and Testing 'Shif t personnel should no'ti., congregate in the Control Room -* s c and as much as possible, non-licensed personnel'should turnover at their work ' stations. - ' - ' ' .. -' * ~
- 5. The Shif t Supervisor's office should be entered ONLY BY SINGLE INDIVIDUALS nec-4 essary to gain permission tofstart work.or to obtain. safety tags. This indi-vidual must be knowledgeable 'on the work that is to be performed.
The licensed operators on shif t must help police personnel-in the Control Room.
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deviat1ons,.from these guidelines should have the on-duty Shif t Supervisor's con- \ y-
. curre'ncey., Everyone has to ' exercise some judgement in complying with these guidelines.
Obvious violations of~these guidelines have occurred in'the past. As a result. .the . Shif t Supervisors, Assistant Shif t: Supervisors, and Reactor Operators have been told to enforce these guidelines to the .best .of their ability and with, the proper discre-tion and tact. Therefore, all Station personnel should cooperate and work with.theso individuals to make the guidelines work.' We wish very much NOT to enact a stricter policy. ' Please help the entire Station by/ a'dhering to these guidelines. iy following these guidelines, Station personnel vi.ll be helping to assure that the
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leactor Operators do their jobs better and 'that the Station is operated in the cafest manner possible. .
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