ML20129B618
| ML20129B618 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/21/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20129B622 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290215 | |
| Download: ML20129B618 (196) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:_ 1 1 BEFORE T t! E FACT FINDING TASK FORCE 2 OF T ii E NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 - _ _ _ - 4 Re: : S Davis-Bosso event : 6 of June 9, 198S : i - - - - - i 8 P R 0 C E E D I N G S 9 _ _ _ _ _ l 10 Proceedings before tho Nuclear Regulatory 11 Commission Fact Finding Task Force in regard to the l 12 aforementioned event, hold at Conferenco Hoom 2 0 ') , t [~sl 13 Davis-uesso Nucluar Plant, Oak li a r b o r , Ohio, 14 commencing on Friday, June 21, 1985, at 10:30 1S o' clock a.m. le _ _ _ _ _ 17 l l l lu 13 20 21 22 24 8507290215 PDR 850621 ADOCK 05000346 26 T PDR ACE FEDURAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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2 1 PRESENT: 2 3 J. T. Board Donnis Moiainec 4 E. Rossi Jim 110110 5 Walt Rogors tla s o u n d Bajestani 6 Bob Peters Art Charbonneau 7 Nick Jackiw Phil tiildebrandt 8 John Wood Larry Bell 9 Steve Wideman Wayne Laning 10 Bernie Beyer Wayne shafer 11 Erdal Caba Bill Hawles 12 Jim Long Mr. Miller 13 La rry Grime Sushil Jain (]) 14 Stan Ba tc h Walt Rogers 15 Terry Murray 16 4 17 ld 19 20
'21 22 23 -s. . 24
_] ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202)-347-3700
i 3 1 Friday Morning Session \ 2 June 21 1985 3 10:30 o' clock a.m. 4 - - - - - 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 - - - - - 7 MR. ROSSI: If everybody is ready, why 8 don't we begin the meeting, and 1 guess this meeting 9 was a s ke d for by Toledo Edison, 4 nd maybe I'll let 10 you tell us wha t the meeting is about rather than me 11 try to tell you wha t I think it is about. 12 MR. WOOD: This meeting was requested f1 wJ 13 in response to our previous discussions on the 14 guidelines whereby when we have information rela ting 15 to a root cause identification, it was agreed wo 16 would come together and discuss the results of the
'7 1 troubleshooting and the identification of the root 18 cause with the fact finding teau as_soon as 19 practical. This is the time tha t wa s chosen to 20 meet tha t criteria.
21 So at this time we wanted to bring the 22 lead people who have reviewed the situation with the 23 auxiliary f eedwa te r valves AF 599 and AF 608 and 24 have them present their results to the fact finding %.J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
4 1 team tor tnoir review. Al 2 MR. BEARD: We had a meeting to discuss 3 tha t action plan. We offered our comments, I think, 4 then you went back and revised your action plan, and S so are we here now to ta l k about the results of tha t 6 revised a c tion plan? 7 MR. WOOD: Not to talk about the action 8 plans, but the results of performing against the 9 action plans, of the revised plans. . 10 MR. BEARD: Do we have copies of the 11 revised action plan? 12 MR. LANING: I don't know. () 13 MR. ROSSI: I think we have a s ke d for that 14 a number of times. I don't know whether we have 15 gotten them. We do want the revised action plans 16 for our records. If we don't have them, we ought to 17 get them fairly promptly after they develop, but i 18 do not want to delay this meeting while we go find 19 out whether overybody has got the revised action 20 plan. Why don't you proceed to tell us wha t you 21 found out about the problem with S99 and 608. 22 MR. WOOD: Jim Long, the lead person on 23 this action plan, will be presenting the results. ,y , 24 MR. flBLLE: Recognizing tha t they may not L) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
I S 1 have the action plan, it might be helptui to review 2 the step of the action plan as you define the 3 results. 4 MR. LONG: In accordance with Rev 1 or my 5 action plan that was pre pa re d in accordance with our 6 guidelines to follow in troubleshooting, we went 7 down -- the first day we went down and troubleshot C AP 608, and tha t troubleshooting effort was observed 9 by both myself and Masoud Bajustani, and we had two 10 members from the NRC region staff, we had two QC 11 inspectors, and we had both repre sen ta tive s from the 12 electrical and pipe shop maintenanco and, in () 13 accordance with our action plan,-the first item was, 14 it said, "Before beginning troubleshooting work 15 document the as-found condition of the valves. 16 Limit those conditions which can be recorded without 17 changing conditions, that is such things as valvo 18 position, general condition, and environmental 19 conditions." 20 The results of our inspection indicated 21 tha t we could find no abnormal conditions. The 22 valves a ppea red in good shape. The i valves waru well 23 lubricated. We didn't find any missing or broken fs 24 pa r ts , 'a nd this condition was both documented on the kJ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) J47-3700 r e w w
6 1 MWO, maintenance ~ work order, and we also took
\/ 2 photographs of the valves themselves.
3 The second step of the action plan said 4 tha t the torque switch settings were changed for AF 5 599 and 600 under FCR 3439, and these settings were 6 supposed to be a 1.5 open, 1.0 closed, and these 7 settings should be verified. 8 At this time we opened the cover of the 9 mo tor-ope ra tud valve. Again we took a pho tog ra ph of 10 the inside of the operator. We verified tha t those 11 se ttings were in tact 1.5 open and 1.0 closud. We 12 proceeded to make a de ta iled visual inspection of ( r]) 13 the i n te rna ls , and again we found nothing abnormal, 14 no wires broke, nothing disconnected, no broken or 15 missing parts. 16 The third stop was to -- it said that the 17 stem thrust load should be measured to verify the 18 thrust ca lcula tion. MOVATS, mo tor-ope ra ted valve 19 analysis and test system, should be used to measure 20 the valve stem thrust, time of control switch 21 actuation and dynamic motor current. 22 At that time we did, in fact, connect the 23 .MOVATS equipment to -- we s ta r ted with AF 608. We
,S 24 proceeded to cycle valve from an open to a closed k./
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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N. v x \ j 1 position to develop a s'i g na t u r e , and we found out i O 2 on the first run tha t we utill had the SFRCS open
'3 signal applied to the valve. So when.the valve went t
'4 shut the first-time, it immedia te ly reopened. He
- S de te rmined- f rom tha t we were not getting a good l 6 signa ture , so we' opened a slide link in the 7 connection box to deac tiva te the open circuit so 4
'8 that we could, in fact, shut the valve to get a good-i' 9 sea ting torque, i
Just a point
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.10 MR. BEARD: Excuse me, Jim.
11 of clarification. You said you found tha t you still 1 ~
; 12 had the SFRCS closed or open signal? o
() 1 ! 13 M R .. LONG:. SPRCS'open_ signal. 4 14 MR. BEARD: Open s i g' n a l . You were 15 a t tempting to close the valve? a 16 MR.'LONG: Yes, so tha t -when we closud the 17 valve from the local switch, as ~soon as the, valve i reached its. closed pos'i tion .t he SFRCS told it to
'18 '
19 open, so it immediately turned around and.came open. 20 Wo . de te rmined from.that that we we re no t ge tting a s 21 good seating. thrust into_the se a t ,. so-we opened.a ~ 22 slide link: to' deactivate tha t open circuit. 23 .We then cycled _the valve several.timus
=
24 kwhile we.took-and recorded the s tem thrust ACE FEDERALEREPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 , S - v' _ . . . - . - , _ . . _ . _ , _ . _ _ . - ~ . - - . , - . , , ~ . , . _ . , _ . . . . .
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P 8 1 measurements, the actual switch positions and then 2 after we concluded, took those signatures, then the 3 next step was to verity-the magnetic brake. . 4 Step four says tha t AF 599 and 608 are ! J l '5 fast feud o pe ra t o r's . A magnetic b ra ke is provided 1 i 6 to oppose the motor inertia after the power is
- a. +
7 removed from the motor. The brake and motors'were r 8 replaced.during the last refueling ou ta ge . These
. i 9 brakes should be checked for proper ope ra tion.
4 lo Okay, again we .did.a visual inspection of ' 4 ill . the brake, and we c o u'I d find nothing abnormal with 12 ' the bra ke , and-then.during-the ope ra tion of'the s jl (])
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.13 signa tures we verified that t he ' b ra ke s were, in 14 fact, picking up and dropping out as1 required.
i- s j' 15 MR. ROSSI: I assume you have records of 16 all tha t you are telling us? 17 MR. LONG: Y e s', all this. inf orma tion is 18 - recorded-on the maintenance work. orders. 19 The next1 step then wa s . to a c tua lly verify : 20 by our. procedure the number of handwheel' turns t h a t-
! 21 the byhass con ta c t for tho' torque switch was.setalt, I-j 22 since this was one of our hypotheses t ha t we thought 23 tha t we : mig h t :-ha ve had a mi sa dj us te d switch.- The i '24 next step was to. verify the number 1of turns on the-
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9 1 handwheel of the valve trom the fully closed
'kJ 2 position to limit switch contact 33/AC bypass for J the torque switch contact 33/to, which is the torque 4 open switch.
5 At that time we did, in fact, with the 6 valve in the tully closed position, we recorded the 7 number of handwheel turns that it took for this 8 con ta c t to actually open. Tha t in f orma tion was 9 again recorded on the maintenance work order. 10 And then the next step says -- 11 MR. BEARD: Excuse me, Jim, I fall to 12 perceive whether or not that was a normal number or [)) r 11 3 an unusual number. 14 MR. LONG: The results that we found from 15 that was that it was not correct. 16 MR. BEARD: It was a correct number? 17 MR. LONG: Not a correct number. 18 MR. BEARD: Could you give us_some feel 19 for maybe what it should have been and wha t you 20 found so we have a feel for how-- was it slightly 21 off or way out or wha t? 22 MR. LONG: If it.is okay, wha t I would I 23 like to do is go through wha t we did first, then I l l g- 24 will give you our conclusions.
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10 1 MR. LANING: I would like to understand () 2 which limit switch. This is the limit switch 3 setting, what I would call the hammer blow motion ot 4 the motor operator? 5 MR. LONG: Yes, in the open diruction you 6 have a torque switch contact tha t would open to 7 deenergize the motor while the valve was in the open 8 position. This torque switch con ta c t is bypassed ' 9 for a certain amount of valve travel to allow the 10 valve to unseat. W ha t we were verifying is where 11 that con ta c t actually opened in relation to the 12 number of turns on the valve handwheel. 13 The other thing we were concerned about 14 was that the torque switch might have had a preload 15 on it when it was in s ta lle d. 16 So one of the steps was to, with the valve 17 in the .u i d - p o s i t i o n , which means the spring pack in 18 the valve is relaxed, we verify that the torque 19 switch was not preloaded, and again doing a visual 20 inspection we verified that the spring pack was not 21 .preloaded, torque switch was not preloaded. 22 Now, the next step was to have been a 23 visual -- verify by visual inspection tha c the 24 spring-pack model number was correct, and this step n i \" ACE PED 8HAL R8 PORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
11 1 was to remove the spring pack cartridga, disasuomble ((,~) 2 it, .and verify that it had the correct number of 3 washers and that they were the right thickness and 4 tha t the preload on the spring pack was in fact 5 correct. 6 At this time we stopped our inve s tiga tion 7 a't the request of Ned Shoals, Region III. His 8 concern was t ha t we did not want to change any of 9 the as-found conditions until a dotermination was 10 made as to whether we wa n ted to do any further hot 11 testing of the valve, so we did not do step seven of 12 our action plan at this time. 13 Now, the results of our inspection 14 indicated from the MOVATS signatures was that in 4 15 both valves the bypass con ta c t opened too early in 16 the stroke to allow the valve to unsea t before the 17 torque switch took it out. Based on a review of our 18 procedures and past work orders, the root cause tha t 19 we have de te rmined is to be improper maintenance 20 personnel actions and basically the complexity of 21 the limit switch setting procedure. We de te rmined 22 tha t the procedure itself is hard to read and_that 23 it would have been very easy for a maintenance man 24 to misin terpre t the procedure thereby setting the s ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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- 12 1 switch wrong.
)- 2 HR. BEARD: Are you saying it is a 3 difficult procedure?
4 MR. LONG: Yes, it is. The procedure 5 itself is not difficult. It is difficult to 6 interpret if.you don't read every step of the ! I 7 procedure.
'8 MR. BEARD: Difficult in an editorial i ,9 ' sense.
j l'O MR. LONG: In an editorial sense. 4 l -11 MR. BEARD: Did you make your 12 de termina tion . or look at the adequacy of it, 13 assuming you get over the hurdle of u nde rs ta nding it, 14 was it a ccura te or correct?
- 15 HR. LONG
- One of the-corrective actions
! 16 that we areEgoing t o' - ta ke is looking into whether or ! 17 not we feel that the present 2.5 percent and five la -percent opening for our gate v a l v e s' is adequa te, i 19 MR. ROSS13 Did you in the process of the- , 20 work t ha t you have dono d'e te rmi n e whe ther you had 21 ever tested the ability to open this valve a f ter it ; 22 had buen t o ta -11 y clos'ed_for'a period of time? ;By: 23 totally closed,EI mean the'SFRCS system is designed i 3 24 to-close the - va lve f o r e sonae eve n ts, andnthen the
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13 1 valve would have to reopen. Has that over been (m_) 2 tested or had it been tested after the last time 3 that this bypass switch was adjusted? 4 MR. LONG: The last previous testing tha t 5 was performed on both of these valves was December 6 31, 1984, which was the postmaintenance testing tha t 7 was dono after the refueling outage. At tha t time 8 both valves successfully passed a survoillance test. 9 lt should be noted that that surveillance test is 10 done in mode five, which means tha t the plant is 11 basically cold and deprosaurized. 12 MR. ROSSI: W ha t does the surveillance 13 test consist of? Does it consist of actually 14 closing the valve, sea ting it, and then reopening 15 i t, or a quick cycle where it doesn't fully sea t? 16 MR. LONG: The surveillance test tells us 17 to ini tia te an SPRCS trip to shut ce r ta in va lve s in 18 the system, and in conjunction with tha t it also 19 says stroke and time AP 600 and then in another 20 section AF 599. 21 MR. BEARD: The stroxo time you measure, 22 is it on the closed cycle or both? 23 MR. LONG: l' hey stroke time both cycles 24 and they are recorded and listed in the valvo logs. A L) ACS FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 g < v v s
-- ._ _.. .. _. . . - _ . , .___ ._.-_... -,.m- ____,.___m-_
i 14 ! 1 MR. BEARD: Closed and open? ' i () -2 MR. LONG:- ' Closed and open. i J MR. ROSSI: Do they' seat on the closed l 4 cycle,- fully sea t? l 5 MR. LONG: Tha t is s till a question I have
. 6 to look into. From reading the ST, it appears that '
7 they do in fact seat. If it is tested with the 8 SFRCS initiation. Now, if i t is manual initiation ! . 9 with a push-button, there is a question of whether ; I L 10 or not the valve fully seats before it turns around- ! -7 11 and~ starts its open stroke. > 1 12 MR.-ROSSI: You did cycle the valve all
-13 - thu way. closed,- fully sea ted- i t, and then reopened f
)
l 14 it before you started to look' a t. the se t ting s ^- on - [ 1 15 these switches; is that correct? 7 t 16 MR. LONG: Yes. j 17 MR. ROSSI: And it worked? t 1 18 - MR.:LONG: Yes. i 4 - 19 MR. WOll LD : The key thing on this is 1 20 . r e a'll y -- appears to'be the differential pressare l j 21 across the' valve. Surveillance testing is n o rma l ly ~ 22 done with no differential pressure. 'I t -mig h t . sea t i i 23 f or , a <long . time, but without-the differential ,
, 24 pressure, you are.not going to ge t' a realistic te s t. .
( ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. , (202) 347-3700 t i r .. I H enn,. vhy1 y'W-l C --W$ 7 N v *J.v- 7 &'vw Ty'r ^*e -r- v' WWm7 T T f -1F FFF'-%&T-m"m _=_m.i-
t 1b 1 -It might be a' good timo .a t this point to relato some
- i. (f 2 weaknesses in~the normally required testing in those f l 3 types of valves. We envoko Section 11 of the ASME- ;
i 4 code, American Society of Mechanical Engineers code, j 5 Section 11, tha t is the normally envoked
- 6 surveillance test requirement, and Toledo Edison 7 would bo fully in compliance'with all survoillance 8 test requirements if they meet that code test, codo 9 testing requirements.
10 The weaknesses, I have got-three f 11 weaknesses where the problems'with this valvo c o u'I d ].' j 12 be overlooked in the code requirements. First of-13 - all, the code considers the sa f e ty-re la ted function {A e 4 14 of the valve first. In this case.the safety-related I 15 function is to close, i t j 16 MR. ROSSI: Well, why isn't.there-a f ~17 s a f e t y- r e l'a t e d function for it to opon, because my i
~18 understanding is. tha t the SPHCS-system for a steam
! 19 line breax-or a feed line break would normally close l 20 ~ the valves,all the way, and then.when pressure: in ; 1 21 tho steam gonorator recovers,-one of the valves 22 would reopen, one to the good s tea m 'ge ne ra to r . How ' ! 23 was the conclusion a r rive d a t- 't h a t the sa f e ty-rela ted 24 function.isfonly to close the valve?-
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lo 1 MR. W O ti L D : Okay. You get into q_) 2 complica ted evalua tions. This is one of the 3 problems with applying Section 11 of the code. In
'4 order to arrive at a maintenance requirement in the 5 valve, the fellow at the utility has to decide what 6 the safety function is, and a Aot of timas there is 7 the weakness right there.
8 MR. ROSSI: But the utility decides tha t 9 and in this caso they decided the safety function 10 was only to close it? 11 MR. W o i! L D : It is normally opened, so 12 it is passive according to the code in the open 13 direction, so no open stroke is re uired to be 14 tested, according to the code. 15 MR. ROSS1: Does the code take into 16 account the fact that there is t:si s one mode where 17 it closus and then has to reopen, or is that, I mean, 18 is tha t specifically addreseed by the code or is 19 that a judgment made by whoever determines wha t the 20 sa f e ty-rela ted function of the valve is? 21 MR. Woli L D : If Toledo Edison decides that 22 it is not required to stroke open, then there is no 23 code requirement to test tha t condition. 24 MR. ROSSI: But a utility could decide, I
,O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS I t4 C .
(202) 347-3700
17 1 assumo, under the code that there is a () 2 safety-related function for the valve to close and J another safety-rolated function for it to opon? . 4 MR. W 0 ti L D : They could make that 5 dotormination. 6 MR. ROSSI: For many valvos, I assume that 7 would be the correct in te rpre ta tion. 8 MR. Woll L D : Yes. 9 MR. Sil A I P E R : Didn't you say in December 10 of 1984 that you tested the stroke time tor both 11 open and closed on those valves? 12 MR. LONG: Yes, they did. 13 Md. S ti A 1 P E R : lia s tha t always been_a 14 practice? 15 MR. LONG: Yos. 16 MR. W O ll L D : They are ta ki n g the stroko 17 timos, but thu code does not require that. I am 18 pointing out somo weaknesses in the code test 19 requirements in what they woro required-to do in 20 tarms of a surveillance test and they are doing moro. 21 than is required in some sonnes and loss than 22 required in another senso. 23 MR. ROSSI: The codo requires them to test 24 it for the sa f e ty-rela te d function, and my point is [) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
_ =.. _ .~. _ . _. - _ __ . .__ ___ .. .__ _ __,_ _. _ _.--._,. . _ . . _ _. _ a 18 I 1 that the re wa s a sa f e ty-re la ted function that the j i () .2 valve open after it has been closed, as well as t 3 with it closed, and they ma y have missed that f -4 sa f e ty-rela ted function. Somebody may have t 5 minin te rpre ted what the sa f e ty-rela ted function is, ; 6 but tha t is indeed a sa f e ty-re la te d function of this t
- 7 valve, I believe.
l 8 MR. W o l! L D : I don't think so in terms of i 9 the way it would have been e valua ted before this i
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-10 event. I don't think there is any doubt that you l
1 f b 11 want it.to be open now but inadvertent ope ra tor I i [I 12 error in misa positions the. valve is-not considered i 4 i la in determining whether there is a safety-requirement l 14 to move it back. l 1 15 MR. ROSSI: Let me go back to_that point 4 , l 16 again because it was my un de r s ta nding t ha t for a } 17 steam line feedline' break, that what would happen;is i 18 that_both valves would go closed during the f E ' 19 'depressuriza tion , phase for a steam-line feedline 2 20 break, that they both being closed and-then the r 21 valve for the good steam-generator would then reopen 22 when the pressure recovered. 4 .
. 23 MR. DEARD: Mr. O'Connor1 explained to us '
24 wha t he thought the performance of the system is ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. i I (202) 347-3700 . b
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19 1 supposed to be. () 2 MR. WouLD: Is that right? 3 MR. ROSSI: Someone told us tha t in a i 4 mee ting this week. Do people disagree that is the J 5 way if works or not? 6 MR. W O i! L D : It was my impression only the i
- 7 valve to the faulted steam generator would close, d that is my impression.
9 MR. BEARD: May I make a suggestion to 10 either Ernio or Mr. Murray if he is still available 11 wu ask Mr. O'Connor to come back to possibly clarity 12 this, or some other technical expert, get an m 13 un de rs ta nding of the ways these valves are supposed 14 to work or the way you want them to workt 15 tiR . BELL: I thought the steam line break, 16 and tha t is the easiest one to talk about, would 17 reduce reactor coolant system temperature and both 18 steam gene ra tor pressures would drop below your load 19 pressure set point. 20 MR. ROSSI: Because of drop in the 21 tempe ra ture or because of some other reason? 22 MR. B8LL: Because of the drop of the 23 . tompe ra tu re in the reactor coolant system. The 24 faulted staam gene ra tor pressure drops because of O 5J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-370u v , . - - -
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20 1 the brea k .- But t ha t is a cool down again on tho
..y q ,) 2 reactor coolant system, so that the impact steam a generator pressure will also drop, and I thought 4 both steam gene ra tors would drop down below your low 5 pressure set point and we would get closure of 600 6 and 599.
7 When the main steam isolation valvos close, 3 then the faulted s tea m generator is isolated or 9 boils dry, and the intact steam generator 10 pressurizes above 612, I think as your set point, 11 and is allowed food; is tha t a correct assumption on 12 my part? 13 MR. MURRAY: Lo t's get the export. C)3 14 MR. ROSS1: There is a question of whether 15 in my mind whether the sa te ty-re '.a te d function in my 16 mind was properly de te rmined or whether there was, 17 there is a problem with the code in that it doesn't 18 ta ke into account inadvertent closure. 4 19 Wu can sort that out whether your expert 1 20 gets here or not, we can sort that out whether your 21 export gets here or not. So I don't know tha t we 22 need to discusa it here. Why don't you go a hea d 23 with other weaknessos. 24 MR. Woll L D : Two others, second one, the D (j ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-a700
~ ~ ~ . 21 1 code does not require closure stroko and opening g) t ,
2 during the survoillance testing against a Delta P. 3 MR. BEARD: Are you saying the codo will 4 be satisfied it it was done with the lino voided or S cold or any other way? 6 MR. WOHLD: Cold, not, basically they look 7 for standard conditions if possible. Thoro is no o requirement to have a Delta P across the valve. 9 okay. 10 11 R . LANING: 1s this your in terpre ta tion 11 of the code, or are there specific s ta tomon ts in the 12 code to this offect? IJ MR. WOHLD: Tha code simply says if it 14 required a stroke, you stroke it, timo the stroke, 15 compare tha t stroke to a previous stroke, and if 16 there is a stroke time increase, then it is 17 de g ra d in g you know that. If it is degrading, it
.18 should degrado under passive conditions as well as 19 Delta P conditions, and you would de te c t there is a 20 problem occurring and.go in and fix it.
21 MR. ROSSI: The code is really directed, I 22 gather, at checking the valve motor rather than the 23 torque switchos and the bypass switch settings and 24 that kind of thing; is tha t a tair s ta temen t? ' Is it fw ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
22 1 really directed at testing the combina tion? (m_) 2 MR. WOHLD: I would like to quoto the code, J but I don't have it with me. It is basically to 4 look at the valvo itself with the operator and to bo 5 able to a ssure that it is roady to perform its 6 function when it is asked, and you do this by 7 looking for degradation in the stroke time. 3 Tha t gets to the third weaknosa, however. 9 This valve is, being a motor ope ra ted valve, ' lo essentially works a cons ta n t speed. When the load 11 changes, the motor current changes, and the speed 12 changes almost impe rc e p ta bly . 13 You have, wha t, three percont, fivo 14 porcent slip before it is going to reach its maximum 15 torque. So the basic promise of the code in 16 detecting stroke time changes is not valid in 17 determining degradation of the va lve or the ability 18 to patiorm its function. 19 MR. BEARD: Are you saying, Pete, tha t the 20 code specifies some acceptanco critoria cola ted to 21 speed versus should aave been cola ted to current; is 22 tha t wha t you are saying? 23 MR. WOHLD: Doesn't mention current, 24 basically talks about the speed of the valve stroke. O kl ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
l l 23 l l 1 MR. BEARD: You are suggesting be t te r ; (% (_) 2 criteria would be current? 3 MR. WOll L D : Current, whatever, tha t la not 4 something I can say wha t it should be. What it is 5 is inadequate to de te rmine the deg ra da tion t ha t will 6 simply result in increased motor currents. 7 I have dor.e in-service test program 8 eva lua tions at a number of utilities, and I have 9 asked this question of every utility I have gonu to. 10 They basically say tha t they really never have 11 identified degrada tion based on stroke time 12 increases. 13 The thing either strokes in its designed (^)
\J 14 time or it doesn't stroke at all.
15 MR. BEARD: So the requirement in the ASME 16 code is stroke time, which rela te s to speed? 1 17 MR. WOHLD: It is looking for stroke time le changes. So if you add these factors together, the 19 stroke timing, the surveillance requirements under 20 the ASME code for these two valves were not adequa te 21 to de tec t the deg rada tions in the valve se tup -tha t 22 were existing for some time. 23 MR. ROSSI: You have concluded tha t tno 24 bypass switch setting was incorrect? ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
24 1 HR. WOHLD: Yes. 2 MR. ROSSI: Based on measurements of the 3 number of turns and so forth. But prior to 4 determining that, you cycled the valve and it worked S properly? 6 MR. LONG: Yes. 7 MR. ROSS1: How do you know that the a oypass setting is the correct setting? Is there 9 some ca lcula tion tha t tells you that that is the 10 correct setting when you ta ke in to a ccoun t the fact 11 that the valve will have differential pressure 12 across it when it has to open or may have 13 ' differential pressure? 14 MR. LONG: The torque switch setting we 15 e s ta blis h for each valve is based on the ca lcula te d 16 thrust required to move t ha t valve against its 17 designed Delta P. 18 MR. ROSSI: The designed Delta P that 19 this valve -- tha t was used for this valve would 20 include or b racke t at least the Delta P tha t existed 21 during this event, ha s somebody checked tha t? 22 MR. LONG: Yes. The valve was designed to 23 ope ra te against a full 1050 paid. 24 HR. ROSSI In the direction tha t it O, \# ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
)
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s 1 25 1 existed during this event, or I mean in that i () 2 direction, because it may be tha t the differential r 3 ' pressure being in one direction has a different , 4 effect than it being the other direction, so my 5 question is does the designud Delta P tha t the valve i 6 was designed for both in direction and magnitude , j 7 bracke t what existed for this e ve n t? ,
) 8 MR. W O ll L D : It is not a directional valve, ;
I j 9 to my knowledge, simple ga te valve. ) 10 MR. ROSSI: It doesn't' matter which I i 11 direction? - j -12 MR. Woll L D : Not to my knowledge. 1
- 13 MR. LONG
- I don't know if that
.i . 14 calculation takes that in to accoun t. I { 15 MR. GRIME:' lia s the vendor qualified his
)
16 s ta teme n t of that DP tha t would indica te i ts . C
; 17 directional? '
l 18 MR. W O ll L D : Tha t usually wouldn' t be 19 specified. L 3 20 MR. GRIME: Implying, as_you said, tha t it 21 is a nondirectional? 4 i 22 MR. DAJESTANI: We are not. 23 - M IL. ROSSI: .For this gate valve ~then 'the 24 :DP really should apply, regardless of which way-it ACE.PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 ( s _ . . . . . . . _ . - . _ . . _ - - , . . . _ . - . . . . _ _ . _ , . _._ , _ . - _ ~ . . . . ~ . _ _ , . _ _ _ . - _ .
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26 l 1 is, a'n d you believe the torque calcula tion wa s 'done () 2 with tha t kind of DP across it and so forth. 3 Then why.does the bypass se tting , why is 4 it a de qua te , I guess, when there is no DP across the i 5 valve and inadequa te when there is the DP7 That is
. 6 the. bypass setting, not the torque.
7 MR. LONG: The torque switch, the bypass l- '8 setting tripped at the same place regardless1of l l 9 whether DP.cHr no DP. j , 10 Now the point.comes tha t Itho' e xis ting 4 11 setting on the torque switch in'the non t ra n sie n t 12 - condition still supplied enough thrust to operate 1 13 the valve against a zero or a small DP condition, 14 Leven with-the improperly adjusted limit-switch 15 setting. , 16 The 1 1/2 open setting'on a torque switch l 17 was supplied encagh thrust to the 'v a l v e to unseat it
'la without' turning it off, without the DP' condition 19 .during the transient, it is apparent we ha d aRDP ]
20 across the .va lue ,1 tha t when the torque switch was 21 placed in the circuit, a t ~ this time.we..needed.more 22 thrust than wa s. a va ila ble a t 'tha t time to 1 unsea t the i 23 valve. 24 MR. ROSSI: I unde rs ta nd. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
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-27
'l MR. USARD: I am not sure I u nde r s ta nd the f
-2 -answer to your question. Wasn't your question --
- -3 MR. ROSSI
- ' The answer to the question was i -4 thereHis a certain torque. Let me give it back to 5 you, see if you agree.
'6 There is a ce r tain torque when you open i 7 the v a'1 v e with no DP across it, and the torque , 3 required to open it with no DP is less than the e i
9 torque required when there is a DP. 1 j 10 So even though the bypass switch works 11 ~imprope rly and ope ra te s too quickly when you are ' i j 12 trying to open the valve, when you are opening it ,
- . 13 with no DP across i t ,- after the bypass' switch 14 ope ra te s , there is still the torque. required to open 15 . the valve'is below the torque switch setting. T h a t .- -
16 is what you are saying? i- ' 17 MR. LONG: That is correct. Tha t is why , la we didn't pick it up on.the surveillance testing. 19 MR. ROSSI: .I t was done with no DP.
'20 MR. BEARD: The torque switch setting, had 21 it been proper, would have been inadequa te for the
!. 22 a pplica tion like-this eve n t? g- 23 MR..LONG:. The torque switch setting was 24 -. a de qua te .- .Whereiwe pla ce d, ,the torque. switch into ) l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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26 1 the circuit was inaduquate. The setting on the
,cs -( ,)
2 bypass was inadequate. 3 HR. ROSSI: I don't know where you were in 4 your pre sen ta ti on , but why don't you continue. 5 MR. LONG: From our traces on the MOVATS 6 signature, we determined that on AF 600 the torque 7 switch was placed in a circuit before the valve had 8 cleared its seat by some amount. 9 This was without a DP. So if you use the 10 hypothesis tha t there was a UP across this valve, 11 then it would have made the situation even worse. 12 It would have probably never cleared the sea t. 13 On AF 599 we found a gross misadjustment. (]
%) \
14 The bypass on that opened before the valve even had f 15 a chance to start to leave its seat. 1 16 MR. ROSSI: The valve would'still open l 17 with no DP across it? 18 MR. LONG: It did in fact open every time 19 with no DP. 20 MR. LANING: The torque switch setting 21 does not encompass wha t I call a nammer blow portion 22 of the valve movement, is tha t correct? 23 MR. LONG: C'ac t in correct. 24 MR. LANih3 . my limit switch setting, p ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
( ,_ _ _ - f .. 29 f [ 1 the bypass setting, is incorrect such that it puts () 2 my torquo switch into the circuit before the valve 3 is unsea ted, tha t is an excessive torque and the 4 limit switch would engage and stop the valve 5 movement? 6 MR. ROSSI: The torque switch would engage 7 and stop the valve movement. 8 MR. MILLER: The limit switch is supposed 9 to bypass the torque switch until it is off the seat. 10 The torque switch is never intended to be able to 11 lift the valve off the seat, because you c l o's e the 12 valve and stop the closed motion with the torque 3 13 switch in closing it.
.)
14 So you close it tightly, and but when you 15 get the valve closed, now we closed it with no. Delta 16 P. To open it with a Delta P you have to bypass the i l 1 17 torque switch setting. It won't open unless you j 1 16 bypass the torque switch setting when you are i l 19 opening it. 20 MR. BAJESTAN1: Torque switch setting l l 21 calculations, again we assumed we are going to l l 22 bypass the torque switch setting for that period of 23 tha t many turns. 24 MR. BEARD: Jim, can I go back and make ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
. . . . .~ - - . . ~ . _ . . .
30 1 s ure' I' unde rs ta nd what you said? I think I heard ,
) 2 you say.that the-torque switch bypass setting on 599 3 was" grossly misadjusted? -
4 MR. LONG: Yes.
, 5 MR. DEARD: What had you said 60B?
, 6 .MR. LONG:- It was misadjusted. It is kind 7 of hard to describe. On 608 the valve had cleared 8 .the sea t' or was in the-process of clearing the seat,
. . t 9 and'it was still, the thrus t wa s still on the down
;10 slope heading toward running. load'when the switch Ill a c tua te d. On AF 599 the swi tch a'c tua ted before the 12 valve even hit-its peak to unseat.the valve.
13 MR. ROSSI: Walt, do you have comments or 14 questions-what they are saying, or ~anybody else from
-15 Region III? We have asked a. lot of' questions.
16 MR. ROGERS: The licensee is eventually ,
- j. -17 going to expiain this thing. The bottom line i s-18 bo th . valve s a re going to go closed, one on the good 19 genera tor ' is. going to go open on a large steam line
-20 break.
21 MR. ROSSI:. You.believe that is'the way,. 22 for a large steam line break, both valves would
'23 close?
1 l 24 MR. ROGBRS:' Yes. , ' ' - ACE. FEDERAL; REPORTERS INC. 1 (202) 347-3700 ] a i
-. . - . , . , - . . -, ., - , . -~ . .- . . -I
J1 1 MR. LONG: There is a point that. requires ,s () 2 those valves to go closed and one of them to go open, 3 and regardless, the safety tunction of the valves is 4 to go closed and at some point go open. 5 MR. ROSSI: It only takes one break 6 loca tion , then it is a required safety tunction. 7 MR. ROGERS: I don't think it ma tte rs 8 where it is. 9 MR. BEARD: Does the licensee concur with 10 the s ta temen t? 11 MR. ROGERS: 599 608 will go closed given 12 the scenario in the break at one point in time one 13 of those valves would come open. (3 %) 14 MR. MILLER: It depends where the break is. 15 If the break is down near the main turbine on a 16 large break, they probably both will close, but 11 17 the break is inside the con ta inme n t on one steam 18 gene ra tor , you will probably only close one of them. 19 MR. ROSSI: out in de te rmining required 20 safety functions.for the valve, it only takes one 21 break loca tion where tha t is wha t happens, and then 22 it is a required f'u n c t i o n of the valve?- 23 MR. MILLER: One break location could 24 close both of them if the break were down near the (3 V) ACE FEDERAL REPoltTERS INC. i (202) 347-3700 l l
_. g. . _ _ . . . .- .- . . _ . . ..
...c. .. . . . . _ _ . ~ . . ___. ._ -_ . . -
i J2 i 1 main turbine in-the.turbineLbuilding. i 2 MR. MURRAY: The critical point is is 1-i 3 there a= case then after either one of'them closes 4 that tha t same valve'could be called upon to open
- , i 5 again? ,
! 6 .MR. MILLER: Y e s .' < 7 MR. MURRAY: T ha t is th'e. critical thing, ? 4 8 could , be' ca lled~~ upon to open a f ter it closed. , 9 MR. ROSSI: The significance of tha t 4 j J10 'a'n swe r - re a lly is that the ' sa f e ty function of the i- 11 -valve' includes both:its ability to close and its i 12 a bili ty- to ~roopen?
- 13 MR. MILLER: Exactly-right.
14 MR. WOHLD: I should ma ke a point, 15 regardless of w ha t . a l1~'.the outcome of this is, the 16 testing.under the ASME code is not in compliance 17 with the code for several reasons. 'This 'is all 18 going to h .:s v e to be re-e va lua ted" by the~1icensee in 19 the testing of these two valves brought into 20 . compliance'with the code. 21 MR. ROSSI: There are other problems'that ! l
- 1. . 22 the!way they have been testing them.in the past-has l i
23 not. complied with the code?
- 24 MR. WOHLD
- -Thuy are o n-- a refueling cycle ACE FEDERAL 1 REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 f' i I
. , . . __ . . -. _ x . .. ._ ._.;- . . _ . . , . ..-s - . _ , _ _ .i
J3 1 frequency for testing per.their program right now. f) 2 The code requires quarterly testing, and based on J what we have said here, , additionally, an open safety a 4 requirement and a closed' safety requirement exists, t ) and they had only identified o n .. direction a s a 1 6 ' safety requirement. t' 7 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Testing bot.: directions, 8 it is important tha t ' tha t is on the record. 9 MR. WOHLD: If they a re in full compliance 10 with the code, they would.not have de te c te d this 11 problem anyway.
. 12 MR. ROSSI: Tha t is a n . impor ta n t point,
! 13 because of the lack of the roquirement to te s t with 14 a DP across the valve. 4 15 MR. ROSSI: But had the bypass switch been i 16 - set correctly, .I mean, a si f a r a s we know now, and 17 that can'be verified later, I g u e s s , tur 's ome sort of la a test, -ca lcula tions and all' tha t sh'ould have been
-19 enough to have resulted ina.the bypass switch being
- 20 correctly set, as far as we know?
21 MR. LONG: Yes. i
- 22 MR. BELL: Is there not a section of'the
'; 23 - code tha t allows the valves to be tested in a cold 24 shutdown period if testing during the: ope ra tion i
.- ACE PEDERAL' REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
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'l . would result in a cyclic or unnecessary thermal
( )- . stresses on the plant, and I would assume you would
-2 3 have submitted a request to defer these valves until j 4 cold shouldfdown testing because yoh didn't want to 4
5 feed ~1nto the J a ux feed nozzles tha t' powe r? 6 MR.'CADA: On the: forward flow direction ' 7 :the re . wa s a relief request, so-we did not have to do ; 8 a forward flow test check on'the check valves in 9 tha t -line. to defer testing-of that line to cold-4 10 -shutdown f or .tha t rea son. . 11 MR. BELL: Wa s - t he re a similar request made for'603.and 599, not rofueling perio's, but to
~
d
~
- 12 ;
-13 cold shutdown periods?
- - O--
14 HR. CABA: T ha t, wa s not made. On tha t 15 _ question of re f ueling , . we _ ha ve cu r ren tly been under 4 b 16 a process of to ta l'ly f reviewing our. valve prog ra m , 17 ASME valve program, with our engineering department
- 18 and our c on s u l ta n t s to just review the s ta tus ,
t 19 because currently our valve program, per our valve 20 program we had just been. testing':and refueling. -
- We were reviewing a 1'1 of the-valves in the
~
21 4 22 sa f e ty, _sys te ms for, just to doubleLcheck.to see how ?
- 23 we were tes ting a nd' the adequacy of the tests, and 24 we had picked up that for those~ valves tha t they -o- ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. "
(202) 347-3700 4 4 w
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i , J5 4 1 should be,cpossibly they should be te s ted quarterly. (f 2 There were.-other questions <as far as, tech . 3 specs isolating the valves, if we coulo do that 4 quarterly, but tha t was picked up in tha t tne valve . S should be tested in both directions was also picked , , 6 7up. . 7 We have not at tnis point comple ted our , J 8 review. the were in the process of modifying our 9 ASME valve program,- submi t ted Jeovision and the 10 c ha n g e procedures. This was something just going on i
- 11 a t t h a t ._ t i m e . - l l
12 ' MR . BELL: Since.you have f'ound_a , 2 . . 13 -defective procedure, .i f I may use tha t term, that 14 a f f ects all=other sa f e ty rela ted valves in,the un i t? . 15 MR. LONG: Yes, it does. 7 16 MR._ BELL: I: guess tha t is a Region III i .; 17 response. i 18 MR. Sil AIF E R : Part of their corrective.
. i i 19 action proposal. ,
~; 20 MR. BELL: Your corrective action i 21 proposals w i l'1 include not only actions on 608:and l ; l 22 599, but all_the o ther sa f e ty mo tor Jopera ted valves q
- 1. l l- >2 3 'in unit to ensure tha t ' those bypass' switches are now I l
24 . set correctly?. q ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS.1NC. l (202).347-3700 l 1
. ~. .:-. a: , - .- ,:- -, - - - , - - ,, .--, . , - - - - , . - - - , , . - . .
36 1 MR. LONG: Yes. () 2 MR. WOOD: In all of our corrective action 3 we are be looking at generic implica tion, whether 4 tha t 11s all nuclear or some'other set motor ope ra ted S valves or some other set. 6 MR. BEARD: John, maybe I am the only one 7 in the room this way, but I am a bit confused with 8 regard to w ha t the conclusions of Toledo edison are 9 as a result of this action plan and what the 10 conclusions are that the NRC may have. 11 MR. ROSSI: I think that is probably 12 premature. I think we are still in the process of eg 13 discussing i t. Why don't we explore the questions O 14 on what they have done so far. 15 MR. BEARD: Before we conclude this 16 meeting, I ask tha t we summarize, I would like to 17 see someone from the utility summarize what the 18 utilities' conclusions are, and then if we desire, l '> we can address the NRC's conclusions. 20 MR. ROSSI: I think we are a' ways from 21 that yet. You sont somebody down to set this bypass 22 switch, and he does that, I assume, by himself, 23 according to a procedure, and then he closes up 24 wha teve r and it is supposedly set. (~~\ L' ' Ace FeueRAL reporters INc. (202) 347-3700
. ~ . , , .. , ..~ . ,- ~, - -. - . - - . . .. - . . . - . -
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- 1 la 'the re some wa y a f te r it:ia set for I
(- 2 verifying tha t - i t has been set correctly, either in
- 3 the.circuitries or any other reasonable test t ha t 4 could be done?
1 5 .MR.=LONG: There is'now. Now- tha t we have
.6 ~ seen-the ' capability of the MOVATS, we do now havo a ,
7 capability of-checking where tha t switch really is. i 8 Up until now we depended on our post
-9 maintenance testing to'tell us whether-we had the
.10 r ig h t' or wrong, or basically a go, no go.
11 MR. ROSSI: What did--- the post 12 ma in te na nce touting would only include the cycling 13 of the-valve? t \ 14 -MR..LONG: Correct. 15 MR. ROSSI: What does the now -me thod . ! 16 consist of? i 17 MR. LONG: Something we 'ha ve n' t developed 18 yet. We a re ~ awa re n tha t after we' set the-switch, we 19 ca n. ta ke a, signature'and' verify tha t~ the -swi tch is , 20 .in fact set where it should be, tha t it is in fact
- j. JUL set far enough during the valve s troke ' tha t it would 22 callow the torque s'w i tc h to be bypassed and provent 23 tho valve from torquing out.
1 24 MR. ROSSI: Tha t is a test tha t could be i
' b/p)-
ACE FEDERAL-REPORTERS INC. (202),347-3700 t f ( i.-
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.1 performed independent of the guy that goes down ~and
} '() 2 sets it? You could send a guy down every -- I am f 3 not suggesting that you'do this this way, you could 4 sond another guy down every month to check;it, and. I 5 he could-tell whether it ~was set properly or not? 6 MR. LONG: Once those switches are set, { i 7 unless you have a failure in the valve, they a re not , p 8 going to change position. , 9 The only time tha t switch position would 10 be changed is in a case where when we relube the 11 opera tor,. we disassemble it, the-switches come out. I 12 When they are put'back in, we may'have to reset the i 13 position of the switch-because of taking the gears ;
- . 14 out and putting everything back together.
15 At tha t time the switch is roset and now
-16 under our, wha t we think we may be doing is we would l
17 probably now ta ke every time t ha t we reset t ha t 18 switch, we would ta ke a new signature to verify tha t 19 -the switch is in fact set ~ correctly, but it is not , 4 20 something tha t you would have to do as a normai, go i 21 down every month and check. It it is not e xpe c te d 22 it would over change.
- 23 MR. ROSSI
- What is involved in doing the l l
24 signature check? Do~you have to ta ke covers'off the
- '()
~
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l i 39 , i 1 switch or what oxactly do you have to do to do tha t ! ( 2 sig na ture check, to check tha t the bypass switch is 3 set correctly? 4 MR. LONG: If I could, I would like Mr. 5 Charbonneau to explain his process. 6 MR. CHARBONNEAU: For your check, you 7 could do it at the motor control setup by just 8 taking motor current on the MOVATS system and switch 9 a c tua tion. That would be the simple way to do it. 10 MR. ROSSI: llo w do'you check the proper 11 setting of the bypass?
; 12 MR. CilARBONNEAU: Can I put something o n' 13 the board, I think it will explain all this 14 unseating and the bypass switches and everything 15 else.
'T 16 HR. RUSSI: You can. The only problem 17 with the board is if you can explain it clearly so lu we can get it on the transcript. You are from 19 MOVATS? 20 MR. Cil AR BO!!N E AU : Yes. I want to show you 21 a typical thrust signature that we get. This is a 22 ga te valve. Now, the thrust is in this direction. 23 An increase in our signature in tha t direction is an 24 increase in load from this pa r ticula r point. 4 (~)
\- ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
. - ~ . . ~ ~ . . . .... . .. . . . . . . , --,.~-- - - ~... - - - -
I 4u 1 Okay. What thisfis telling us is 'tha t the
- i. 2 . ope ra to r turned the switch to open the valve here. ,
i 3 The spring pack, what we are measuring, its motion, 4 . was compressed 11n the.other direct' ion. 5 So the first thing tha t happens when the 4 i 6 motor turns on, the spring pack relaxis. It is now l 5 7 relaxed. From here to here the dogs on.the worm j- 8 J gear and the s ta nd up , i t l ha n. to rota te 160 degrous, a 9 re-engage .pa r t of the atom nut-to. drive the stem i n , 1 i 10 ithe other direction. 3 i 11 _So right here the' dogs engage and you get l l j . 12 the so' called hammer blow, just like trying to open 1 13 up a~ stuck door. The s tem s ta r ts - to move. l 14 Typically in a valve such as 599 and 608, thure is a , i .{
; 15 clevace (phonetic) in here.
I , 16 The stem will come down into here. You i 17 see there la a gap in here. So what happens is the l . 18 stem, once we have got the stem moving, the load
. -19 comes down , _ a nd it la moving along-very nicely u n t i l -'
20 this. engages. i 21 This is where the-problem was with 599 and i j_ 22 608.. We s ta r ted to pull the disk out of the seat. I j . 23 once it cleared the seat, the load goes down to so- . ' 1 l ~24 called running load. l ' 1 ; ! ACB FBDERAL RUPORTERS I t4 C . (202) 347-3700' - I i i 4
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41
-1 Superimposed on this is switches.
q is ,/ 2 MR. ROSSI: This is current tha t you aro 3 plotting up? 4 fl R . Cll A R B O N N E A U : Thrust, we are a c t u a ?. l y 5 measuring the motion of the opring pack. O MR. ROSSI: Thore is an instrument down at 7 the valve? 8 MR. CllARuoNNEAU: This is mou.ted right on 9 the valvo. It is a temporary ins tall a tion , okay. 10 Now, le t's take a look at switchou. Take 11 f our alliga tor clips, hook them to the terminals, 1 12 guess you have an example, of the limit switches. 13 MR. ROSSI: Let me go back to the thrust {a] 14 curve again. I had thought somebody had said tha t 15 this whole thing would be done at the motor control 16 contor. 17 MR. Cil AR BO N N E AU : I just said t ha t. I 18 was going to get from here to the motor control 19 center. This is -- the base line signatures are 20 dono, what we call baso line signatures are dono at 21 the ope ra tor itself, at the valve. This la what wo
-22 did for this investigation. The owitchoa now, 23 higher is what wo saw.
24 This is the swi tch a c tua tion signal, this e ks) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 e
~
42-1 . drop right here tells us_that the closed to open
. ()l 2 torque switch bypass. switch is just open.
3 This one tells us ~ that the open limit l 4 -switch has'just opened. Now, .these are ta ke n 5 s imul ta ne ou sly; on the screan, and we can line this i 6 up to-tell us'that tha t - bypa s s swi tch ' opened before 7 the valve unsea ted, . and the load under this-f a condition, which was shutdown cold c o n'd i t i o n , was ; a
- 9 not-high enough to trip the torque switch. With the
] 10 Delta P you will probably get something tha t ' looks
.i < a 11 like'this.
I ! 12 And this magnitude now-in the scenario 1 j 13 that we are postulating with the high Delta P , i 14 tripped the torque switch. ,
, 15 Now, we also take motor current, and then 1
16 we will show you the motor current looks like this. i
- 17 It is an increase in rush running, and this motor ,
. 18 current is slower than the MOVATS thrust that hits 19 you a t tho.value.
- 20 It is not as sensitive, but you will.see t
i* 21 .this, so what we are saying when we say, periodically 22 you could go to the motor control cen ter wha teve r. j 23 frequency you have, these terminal connections are j 24 in thu motor control center normally. ,
' O ACB FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. ;_ (202) _ 347-3700 ,
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43 1 This power lead is in the motor control (Oj 2 contor, so you could check to make ouro your swi tc h 3 is set properly. That switch is supposed to bo out 4 hero. It cannot open botore the valvo is fully 5 un sea ted. o MR. ROSS1: I have a-general understanding 7 of the technique now in wha t you are saying. 8 MR. BEARD: Lot me clarify. When you drew 9 this up on the board, were you drawing it in a way 10 you found it for thoso particular valves and then 11 pointing out for proper adjustment the position tha t 12 the limit switch should ope ra te and the load current 13 should have this little peak in really should be
-)
14 further o u t? 15 MR. Cil ARBONN E AU : Abuolu te ly. 16 MR. LONG: In rela tion to tha t top curvo 17 we found tha t AF 60d, the switch opened close to the 10 bottom of tha t down alopo, on this aide of the peak. 19 On AF 599 the uwitch opened on the left 20 side of the peak before the valve oven had'a chanco r 21 to reach its peak. 22 MR. ROSSI: I understand the general 23 techniquo. Now, wha t elao did you have you wanted 24 to say? O \/ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) J47-3700
44 1 HR. LONG: In addition, on AP 599, when we () 2 were installing the MOVATS equipment, we recognized 3 that tho'shouldor nut that holds the spring pack in .
- 4 . place had been installed backwards.
.S This had no effect on whether or not the 6 v a l'v'e would have.. opened or closed, it was just an ,
i ; l -7 _ obse rva tion :tha t - we noted it wa s somothing different i S that is not supposed to be there. The shoulder nut 4 j 9 was installed in'a backwards position.
! 10 Again, based on the results of the HOVATS , ?
l11 da ta a nd ' ba sed on our manually verifying the l- 12 position of the switch, the actual results of the 13 valvo not opening was due to the closed to open -j 14 torque switch bypass con ta c t opening prior to the j .15 valvo nunsea ting , and the root of cause of that would 16 have been the opera tors' improperly setting the f ~ 17 switch, combined with the problem tha t wo have that L l - i i 18 our procedure la bulky, and .it would be quite i 1 j' 19 possible f or a man to misinterpret it. i- 20 MR. SHAIPER: Did you say that shoulder 1-t' 21 nut was installed ba ck wa rds , bo th . va lve s? ' 22 MR. LONG: Just 599.-
; 23 MR. ROSSI: Whero do you stand at this i , 24 poin t? You have not corrected any of the' problems.
ACS PSOERAL REPORTERS INC. j, (202) 347-3700 l
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Au 1 it is sitting there this way a t this point, or havo (O (j 2 you readjusted the bypass or -- 3 MR..LONG: As I said before, Mr. Sho11 4 said he did not want us to go any farther until it 5 was dotormined whether or not either the fact 6 finding team or Region III or somebody made a 7 decision whether they wanted us to tout thu valvos S in the as found c o n d i' t i o n with the plant hot or some 9 other testing requirements without changing the as 10 found condition. 11 MR. ROSSI: Without input from either 12 Region III or our tea m , w ha t would you propose to dot q- 13 tt R . LONG: On those two valvoa our C/ 14 proposed correctivo action was to, one, pull the 15 spring packs out, mako ouro tha t they are assembled 16 correctly. Two, to not the bypassoa accordingly. . 17 one of the proposala we are go to make, wo la are going to change our procoduce, draw up to 2.5 19 and five percent of hand wheeled turna and change 20 tha t to ten percent for all valvos. 21 We teol this is in line with, trom wha t 1 22 have ta lk o d to other utilition, this la in line with 23 other industry practicos with other utilition of 1 ! 24 autting those a s ta nda rd ton percent on all valves. (m
')
\ ACE PEDURAL REPORfERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
46 1 This would give us additional margin to make auro () 2 the valvo is clear of its ava t. J MR. ROSSI: You are proposing to do thia 4 before you would run any kind of test to verify tha t - 5 you could make the valvo do what it did in the ovent, 6 make it not open again under similar ci rc ums ta nce s?
? MR. LONG: Again, from our ca lcula tions, 8 we are certain that la wha t the problem is. Now, if 9 it in de te rmined by either Toledo Edloon or the NRC 10 that they would like to suo us try to e s ta bli s h as 11 close as we can possibly wha t the conditions were at 12 the timo and leave the valvo in the as found IJ condition and tako another trace, and than to provo I
O 14 that, act the valve correctly, e s ta bli s h the same 15 test condition and take another trace, tha t i n 16 something tha t I guess is going to have to be i 17 decided. ld MR. BEARD: Can 1 ask you what youe 19 technical export here, the consultant, has adviaed 20 you with regard to the donirability of tha t kind of 21 thing? 22 MR. LONG: Our conclusions are if we act 23 the switches correctly, balance the torque switch, 24 make auro the apring pack la i n s ta lled correctly, wu
ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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47 1 are certain that the valvos will operato as designed [j q 2 without any additional testing. 3 MR. ROSSI: Assuming you resot it all and 4 then now without trying to reproduce the conditionu 5 at cost without the work, would you proposo to test 6 it after you go hot under similar conoitions or not? 7 MR. WOOD: I think tha t gets into the 7 8 correctivo action tha t we are not really prepared at 9 this ttmo to elabora te to what extent we are going 10 to apply these causes into a correctivo action 11 program, tha t is something t ha t we nood to yet talk 12 about within Toledo Edison and propose wha t that 13 correctivo action will be for this c i rcums ta nce . A 14 MR. ROSSI: At some point we are going to 15 want to break and caucus among the NRC people. i lo Do you navo anything oise that you want to 17 s ta te uofore we take a break and discuss what you 18 told us, or do any of the NRC peoplo have any moro 19 questions? 20 MR. S !! A I F E R : The laat time thoso switches 21 were uet, did you dotermine if the same individual 22 set both of them, or was it two different 23 individuals? 24 MR. LONG: Two different individuals. (^) s- ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
4U 1 MR. LANING: Does the torque switch (') 2 setting include the torque required to chango the 3 valvo direction in mid stroko? 4 MR. BAJESTAN1: Wha t was the question 5 again? 6 MR. LANING: It is my understanding that 7 this valvo can change direction during mid stroko. 8 MR. BAJESTAN1: It can't. 9 MR. LANING: Neithur of thoso-valves can? 10 MR. BAJESTAN1: If you look at the control 11 circuit, it cannot change its position. 12 MR. WOHLD: I would like to suggest pG 13 another idea tha t has not been brought up on tho 14 root cause, and that is standard limit switch 15 setting r e c omato n da t i o n by a contractor hired by 16 Toleuo Edison, Torrey Pines, recommended a fivo 17 percent bypass for this particular valvo. I think l'u this valve in tour inches and above. 19 MR. LONG: Four inchos and above is fivo 20 percent, loss than four inches, 2.5 porcent. 21 MR. WOHLD: For this valvo it was f1vo 22 parcont-of stem travel, which calcula ted out to be 23 approximatcly nine turno. The actual number of 1 24 turns, correct me if I am wrong, was approxima tely (m k') I ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
49
'l eight. So they were one turn oft out of nino turns
) 2 in terms of setting this torque switch.
J MR. ROSSI: You mean sotting the bypass i 4 switch 7 one turn out of nino turns in error in S sotting the bypass switch, on -- 6 MR. WOHLD: On AF 608. T ha t is too close.
.7 rhere is a certain amount of judgment in de te rmin ing a whether utem travol has begun or not. There is 9 variation in this clevaco pin travel and so forth, 10 and not enough margin in tha t tive percent sotting 11 to assure that this bypass switch was going to work 12 properly.
13 MR. MURRAY: Jim said we want to use ton 14 percent ra the r than five porcent. 15 MR. WoHLD: I believe you have learned 16 five percent is coally not adequatu. What I am 17 saying as part of the root cause here is tha t Torrey 18 Pines number. 19 When you got ten percent off on a hand. 20 wheel adjustment, tha t is too close to call, and 1 21 think that is part of the root cause. 22 MR. BAJESTANI Tha t is not a calculated 23 valuo. This is just general practico. All the 24 other utilities, they use anywhere betwoon throw to (% \- ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) J47-3700
'U J
1 eight percent. () 2 MR. ROSSI: Where would the calcula ted 3 number have been? 4 MR. BAJESTAN1: For the torque switch. 5 For the limit switch there is no calculated. 6 MR. W O ll L D : It la pretty much standard 7 industry p ra c tice to select somothing reasonable u t ha t other people seem to be using, and in this caso 9 they selectud five percent, and it just doesn't 10 really g ua ra n tee that you are going to have an 11 a c ce p ta ble valvo. 12 da. ROSs1: on these valvoa using the 13 signaturo technique, wha t would the number of turna 14 have been for the autting of the b y p a s s 't 15 Mh. LONG: Based on the MOVATS 16 recommenda tion, their recommendation was to add an 17 additional eight turns to our existing procedure, la which would have in fact placed it at ten percont. 19 MR. BEARD: They recommended you go from 20 nine to 177 21 MR. BAJESTAN1 To 17 turns. 22 MR. BBARD: Tha t wpuid give you ten 23 percent. 24 MR. LONG: In addition, part of our action O
\"' ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
b l. 1 plan was also to do, reverify our engineering r
- - ( ,yf 2 calc ula tions , verify that we did in fact have the .
4 3 right operator, right sizo motor, tha t it was 4 developing the correct thrust, and the MOVATS S signa ture indica ted those calculations were correct, 6 we do have the right size ope ra tor , right size motor, 7 and it is delivoring the required thrust for those. t 8 valves. 9 MR. BEARD: Could someone show me whoro is 10 ton porcent and where tive percent would have fallen? 11 MR. BAJESTANI:- Fivo porcent t ha t wo have 12 right now without the Delta P on 599, no, BOB, Live 13 porcont is right here. (Indica ting ) . O 14 MR. BEARD: Five percent is right thoro, i IS just at the recovery point of the thrust with no DP't 16 MR. BAJESTAN1: Right. 17 MR. BEARD: Whore would ten porcent then 1 AB be? 19 MR. BAJESTAN1: Normal running, right hero. i 20 MR. BEARD: The reason I asked tho 21 question was, I wa s trying to understand the 22 question whether or not the thrust with significant 2J DP across it is within the ten porcent. l 24 In other words, have you looked at tha t f'J
\
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 l
i 52 1 part of i t? In other words, there is a dotted lino (O _j 2 the gentleman drew to show wha t he believed the 3 thrust would go to wi th the DP, and it shows that 4 4 the thrust is significantly highur and signiticantly 5 longer. 6 And I am trying to ask the question, have 7 we done, have you folka done the ca lcula tions or 8 wha tove r is involved to make sure t ha t the, that 9 signature is well within the ten percent number? 10 HR. BAJESEANI: There-is no calculation to 11 come up with that ten porcent. The only way we can 12 do it again if we actually have the Delta P acronu 13 the valvo, opo ra te the valvo, and taAo the signature
)
14 switch. 15 HR. BEARD: Why would you boliove ton
, 16 porcent la a proper sotting if you haven't dono tha t?
17 HR. CHARBONNEAU: usoud on our experience.
- la Your question is well ta ke n. No one, as far as I am 19 aware of, has over done any test to show how wide 20 does that peak got. It is going to depend on how 21 much Delta P you have, how ha rd you nea ted it the 22 laat timo.
23 That is why everybody han an HOV, no many 24 va ria blo s as to where does tha t thing drop down. O ACE FEDEdAh REPORTERS INC. (202) J47-3700
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! 'l MR. ROSSI: . I can understand why the peak. () 2 gets higher. Tell me why the peak gets wider? Is 3 : that because when~you have the DP across it, you l i i l 4 ~actually change some of the dimensions as to when 5 the thing unseats? i 4 , 3 6 MR. CilARBONNEAU ' No, I t hi nk . w ha't it is,
'7 as Pete pointed out, this is essen tially a constant.
i
- j. a speed AC motor. It is running at a constant speed.
- 9 In ' reality, wha t is happening during the loading i i
! 10 condition on the valvo, the s tem speed changes and
} j 11 'it slows down. The higher the load, the olower thu 1 I 12 stem. l i i a 13 The portion of the motor, now, the motor ! - i ! 14 was trying to give all of its motion to the stem. I 1 15 Why did the stem chango speed? ' j 16 The reason is because part of the i ' 17 ro ta tional input'from the motor is going to thu stem, , 18 but now a portion of'it is being ta ke n up in motion t' I j -19 of the spring pack. Oncu you got to the loaded i 1 20 ' condition and a stabilized loaded. condition, now all - i ! 21 the ro ta tional force'goes back. , i : l~ 22 Tha t is why the unseating ta ke s 'longo r , 23 depending on the load. uccause you a re going to j 24 have to' compress the spring pack more, which'means ACE PEDURAL' REPORTERS INC. 1 (202) 347-3700
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. 54
.1 you are going to-tako more time to u n s e a t ,. move that
() 2 - same distance out of the sea t. , f J MR.-DEARD: Going back to your experienco ; i [ 4 on the ten percent setting number, has 1t been your 5 - experience.with this particular;valvo with DPs of i 6 the magnitudos we ~have been talking about here this, t 7 morning,.that the: torque,is going to be well within ! 8 the ton'porcent'or right-near it, or what has been "9 the experience? 2 - 10 MR. CHARBONNEAU: We have tested some thing - 11 like 1,200 valvos, and I will bot tha t maybe '20 of 12 them have been under-flow and pressure conditions. I 13 Most of our testing is to obtain a i 14 mechanical and electrical EKG of the valve and,what 1 i 15 have you, but under those limited numuors of tests, a ' { 16 we feel f airly 'confiden t' tha t the 16.is correct. t 17 However, wo have ta ken. the posi tion .tha t tha t is i . . j id based on our experience. i 4 19 HR. BEARD: You fool confident that wha t? e ?
; 20 MR.'CHARBONNEAU: That is sufficient 1
21 - b y pa s s'. 22 MR. DEARD: Ten percent value? i , i 23 MR. BEARD: If you use a hard number liko 24 ton percent, overy valve is ditfotont, every gap is i 7 O ACE PEDERAL REPORTBR8 INC. ' , (202)'347-3700 i-
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55 1 going to be diffurent. G(j 2 it would be my opinion that 99 times out 3 of 100 the ten percent is going to cover it. 4 MR. BEARD: I recognize you peoplo make l 5 valvos and have dono this testing on valves for not 6 only the nuclear industry but other industries? 7 MR. CilARBONNEAU: We are not that old yet. 8 We aro just getting into i t.
'9 MR. BEARD: In view of the significance of 10 this thing being misset, as a ppa re n tly was found i
l 11 here, would it ue desiraulo to throw in some margin ? 12 to provide assurance that you aru not going to find ! 13 out two years down the road as a result of somo _(] , (_/ 14 other event it ought to bo 20 turns instead of 17 15 turns? 16 MR. Cil A R B0!4 r4 E AU : Absolutely, I agreo. 17 MR. RusSI: Another approach would be if i l 18 you had the test, you could then de te rmine whether
- 19 you did or didn't have margin and where you were if l
( 20 you ran the test with UP. l l l 21 I mean, if you testod it with DP, then you 22 could set it with margin and you know o xa c tly what 23 you had. l 24 MR. S il A 1 F E R : Sounds to mo like you are i th ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS I ti C . , (202) 347-3700 l
t b6 1 saying essentially tha t we have a generic problem O 2 here and that there may be other plans for those () l 3 switches set nonconse rva tively. I 4 MR. BEARD: I think tha t is beyond the 5 scope of this pa rticula r mee ting. 6 Maybe we could handle tha t in ten minutes 7 oriso. 8 MR. ROSSI: Le t's keep -- I wa n t .a ll the 9 people -- I want you to finish what you have got to 10 say, and I wa n t the NRC people to ask wha teve r 11 questions they have, and then we will.take a break 12 and caucus. 13 MR. LONG: Ideally, probably the best 14 thing,to do would be to' set this valve up, do a 15 signature'on it with its-design condition and 16 wha te ve r Delta P that it could be called to act upon.
'17 ,However, I think we will find tha t in most, 18 .in a lot of-cases tha t is just going to~be 19 ' physically impossible to do, tha t we a re. no t going 20 to be able to es ta blish 'the plant condition to 21 _ sub' ject that valve to the designed'DP'and. cycle it.
22 MR. BEARD: Are you-suggesting the need 23 f or.. lab tes ting versus-using the plan t .as your-
~
24 laboratory? ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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(202) 347'-3700 e
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57 1 MR. LONG: I think wu have to depend on
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( ,/ 2 similar engineering calculations to say, yes, this 3 ope ra tor is sized correctly, and then o s ta blis hing 4 some reasonable number t ha t we think will be 5 sufficient on the bypass, you know. 6 MR. ROSSI: Can you run the test for these 7 particular valves? Is tha t a leasible test to do 8 and a safe way on the plant? 9 MR. MURRAY: I am not sure we can answer 10 that right now. 11 HR. LONG: I am trying to develop 12 something to see if we could. So for I neven't. eg 13 Ma. BEARD: Wha t I have heard in here this b 14 morning, it applies not only to this valve, but 15 other valves in your plant and beyond. 16 The biggest thing I am hearing is there is 17 not a pa t answer, so to speak, for each valvo, that 18 you have to investigate and do the engineering 19 analysis and engineering tests, something like that, 20 to get the right values. - 21 Am I mi sunde rs ta nding tha t or 22 understanding tha t" properly? l 23 MR. LONG: I think we have the engineering i 24 values'. I think the question now is picking a point l I)
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. { (202) 347-3700 l
58 1 to set our bypass tha t we feel will cover basically 7 () 2 everything. J In other words, right now Torrey Pines has 4 given us a procedure tha t says for gate valvea less S than four inches you set this bypass at 2.5 percent 6 of the full hand wheel turns. For torque valves 7 g rea te r than four inches, set that value at five 8 percent. 9 MR. BEAdD: Today you are saying ten 10 percent. 11 MR. LONG: From our experience we are now 12 thinking tha t may not be a dequa tu , and we are going rm 13 to change t ha t , double tha t requirement on the U 14 bigger ones, and it is a factor of tour on the smalle - 15 ones. 16 M R .' ROSSI: Walt, you said you had a large 17 number of questions. Why don't you ask some 18 que c tions. 19 MR. ROGERS: I will try to do this ra the r 20 quickly. I think I know the answer to the first one. 21 I want to verify. 22 When you s ta r tud testing, the valve went
- 23 closed then came back open. Why?
24 MR. LONG: The SFRCS still was setup r's ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
a
'9 1 normal. It was telling the valvo, it should bo in
() 2 the open position. Tha t is the normal position of J those valvos. 4 MR. ROGERS: What a c tiva ted the SFRCS? 5 MR. LONG: That is its normal position. 6 Without an SFRCS a c tua tion, the valves were in 7 normal condition, and the normal condition for thoso a valvos, they are normally closed contacts in thu 9 open circuit tolling those valves they are supposed 10 to be open. 11 MR. HOGERS: The shoulder nut you found 12 put in backwards in this case didn't affect the gm la operability of the valvo. The shoulder nut, could 14 it affect the operablility or the valvo if you put 15 these shoulder nuts in improperly? 16 MR. LONG: You. In this case, the way thu 17 anoulder nut was put in, it was physically 18 impossible to set the sot scrow that holds the 19 collar in place. 20 The result of tha t could be through use 21 and vibra tion , this shoulder nut could have backed 22 itself out to where now the spring pack could move 23 in its housing. 24 Results of that would mean that in tho / \ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
60 1 closed direction ene valvo could torque out before () 2 it ever reached its designed torque set point. 3 MR. ROGERS: Do your ma in tenance people 4 know that, t ha t were doing the work on the valve? 5 la what you all talked about today, the torque 6 switch settings and all this about the bypass, have 7 your peoplu been trained on this and understand the 8 significance a ssocia te d with these settings? 9 MR. LONG: I would say yes, the operators 10 have gone or maintenance people have gone through 11 the basic Limi Torque training classes we have had 12 up here. 13 This procedure that we are using now, the e-) J 14 2.5 and five percent is a recent procedure that we 15 have put in a f te r we had the Torrey Pines study dono, 16 and like I said, we have recognized tha t it is a 17 bulky procedure, and it would be very easy for a man 18 to miss a step if he didn't read it carefully. 19 MR. ROGERS: Thu one valve that had some 20 gross misadjustment, I bolieve is wnat you all said, 21 I thought you showed a double hammer blow up here, 22 double thrust. I think when you are supposed to be 23 doing this, you are supposed to ta ke the year train 24 tee th up. p 'd ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
- . - _ _ - - - - _ - . . . ,_._ , . _ . . _ _ m . m_ . -- _ .m _. . . _ . _ .___a i
01 1 MR. LONG: Yes. (f- 2 MR. ROGERS: Is it possible they didn't 3 take the gear train teeth up when they set i t? I 4 MR. LONG: That is wha t I think happened.
~
j 5 -Like Itsaid, the way the procedure is written, tells . 6 you to ta ke ' the backlash up, drop down two or threo 7 paragraphs, then'it says continue an additional five a : percent. 9 It.would be very-easy for the-man to jump 10 down,-see five. percent, and in fact open the valve a 11 : total of nine and a half. turns in full shut ra ther 12 than the nine and a h'a l f turns a f ter he had ta ke n 13 the ba ck' la's h up, a nd - t ha t is w ha t ' we' found. 14 MR. ROGERS: Wha t - you f ound corrola tes the s.- 15 backlash was not taken up? ! 16 MR. LONG: Yes. l l - 17 MR. ROGERS :: Are you all sa tisfied tha t 18 the valve, it.issthe DP tha t; is causing _this problem i
- f. 19 could cause i t to bypassfsatup;-it'hcs nothing to do
. - 20 with the-hot condition of the-valve or the cold 21 condition ofEthe valve? 22 MR.=LONG: Ass um'i n g . t ha t there was no 23 leakage, the - va l'v e s where they a ro loca ted - inia 1
^
me c'ha nica l -pe ne t ra t1on' room . a nd wi t h a a ta tic no
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u2 1 flow condition through the normal aux feed system, I r'~ ~ (N) 2 would assume tha t those valves would normally be at 3 the ambient. temperature ot the mechanical 4 pene tra tion room. So they would normally not be 5 very hot. 6 If we are pos tula ting we did have some 7 back leaking, then it is conceivable those valves 8 were closer to steam g e ne ra tor tempe ra tu. o at the 9 time of the transient, and then when the auxiliary 10 feed system went off, we could have gotten cold 11 water through from the opposite direction. 12 MR. ROGERS: 'Ta l k i n g about back leakage on es. 13 check valve? (_). ' 14 MR. LONG: Or possibly backup through the 15 steam generator recirc sys tem. 16 MR. ROGERS: Do you all have any 17 in te rpre ta tion or anything like tha t tha t let you 16 know about that back leakage? 19 MR. LONG: No. 20 MR. ROGERS: ASME code testing, is what 21 you all were doing for testing, trom what you are 22 saying, do you all agree ASME code and the tech spec 23 operability tasting, I mean surveillance requirement, 24 was not sufficient to assure operablility ot AF 608 (-~) ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
+
r b3 i 1 and AF 5997 1 U()- 2 MR. LONG: Even had we been doing that 3 Ltesting. quarterly,.it probably would not. have [! 4 ' indica ted this problem. Even if we.had done the i i 5 ' test every quarter ra the r than refueling, it i' 6 'probably would not have shown that we luul this . 1 g 7 3 problem. l 8 'HR. ROGERS:- Doing the surveillance'
- 9 requirements, tech specs,-and ASME code was'still 10 no t - su f f icien t . to1 a s sure' ope ra bili ty?
11 MR. LONG: I would say that is-true.
. 12 MR. BEYER: By definition, operability is 13 determined.by the tes ting , to say it is inadequato -
14 for inoperability.- l l 15 MR. ROSSI: Tha t is a legal problem.- i 16 . operability'to me means thervalve will do everything 17 it has to do under the ~ conditions it has to ope ra te. 18 Tha t is the technical definition.of operability. 19 The legal definition may be something~else.
. 20 The technical definition can.only be tha t; the valve
'21 will perform all the' functions it is expected to 22 perform under the conditions it is expected to-do 23 that.
- 2 <4 HR. BEYER: With tha t de finition I agree I
iO ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS'INC. (202) 347-3700 I . . . . . - g . . ., -g ,,n ii ,i- i,,,,, ,. .,
. . . - . . . , -. . ~ - . - - -. - . . . .- ,-.
k b4 L 1 wi th Jim's - response. . .(}, ~2 MR. BEARD: We have been through tha t with 3 different people. The s ta nda rd answer is tha t the 4 successful completion of all the required
~
5 surveillance tests'is a necessary pa r t of 6 - ope ra bili ty , but it is no t, suf ficien t.
- 7 If your vendor sends you a letter and 8 informs you of some reason that says these valves
'9 may not work properly,.those valves could De 10 considered to be inoperable even though they
, 11 ' considered to pass the test, because of new 12 - in f orma tion ~ or in f orma tion similar to.what we ~may 5 13 have heard this morning, could cause you'to have to 14 - to declare them inoperable. . 15 MR. LONG: In addition to your answer 16 there, we did test these-valves ~at 15:15 the 17 - a f ternoon of the transient with the plant hot. They 18 did stroke. They passed their cycle times correctly. 19 So whether the plant is hot or cold, the. 20 . testing the valve unde r a s ta tic conditionf didn't, 21 . still didn't show it up. 22 MR. ROGERS: That ia ~important to ; 4 23 - understand your raasoning why-you'think it is DP. i
'24 tur last question is are you 411~under an approved ~
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700'
. . . -. .-. . _ . . . . . . - _ . _ . . _. . . . . ~ . _ _ -
us 1 IST test program, correct?
-s
(_) 2 MR. LONG: Yes. 3 MR. ROGERS: And AF 599 and 606, you did 4 not have relief from that testing requirement at the S time of this transient, is that correct? 6 MR. LONG: Our approved valvo program, our 7 in-service testing program -- 8 MR. CHARBONNEAU: The approved in-service 9 testing for the valve program on those two valves 10 did not require a quarterly test. 11 MR. ROGERS: That was approved, relief 12 request, right, as you all read the code right now, 13 you believe you need a relief request to test those v 14 valves in the methodology in which you were testing; 15 is that a safe assumption? 16 MR. CABA: To go, yes, if it is not
. 17 practical, to do it a l te rna tive to what the code 18 says, you need a relief request.-
'19 MR. ROGERS: ~ I think I got all my 20 questions.
21 MR. BEARD: I don't want anybody to take 22 this.the wrong wa y . I think we are talking here 23 about a root cause determination that has 24 significant implications for other valves at your G (J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) J47-3700
, . - . . , , . . . .. . -. . . - -. ~ . - - - .
bb 1 plant and1maybe beyond, and.I am saying that a lot (} 2 of'these results are based on advice from a
-3 consultant, MOVATS, and-I am wondering in view of' i
.4 the'aignificance-of the. conclusions ~ you have told us
! ;S 'a bou t'- toda y , part of your p r(s g r a m , Mr. Wood, would
-6 include discussing this finding or this-test method, 7 significant, or wha teve r wi th the people who ,
8 designed it, which I guess would be Limi' Torque, to t 4 9 see if they would concur in e i~ t h e r the testing 2 10 methods or results or things of this nature before 11 people end up with temp ta tion to go out and march 12 into war. i
~ '
! 13 > I am asking some sort of confirmation from i i ) ' 14 ' therpeople who designed it. l' 5 MR. WOOD: Ce r ta inly' we recognize the f 16 ' overall implica tions. Tha t is part1 of the reason wo 17 can't sit at this time and tell you what our. 18 corrective action.will be. We would need first to j 19 verify:aa you are - indicating how confident we are ot 20 this information before we go-and do.,some t hing of-2.1 -- such a large-scale nature.
; 22 MR. BSARD: I ta ke it you will bo
- 23 discussing this with Limi Torque to confirm these 24 things. ' , f%- ) l (_) ACE FEDERAL - REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 y we ,- + - - - , . , *,,-e :2. .w#-- --,4c, ,,v. , - - - . - , , , , . , ,
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-1 MR. BAJESTANI
. --(~) 2 Torque about one of the problems MOVATS brought up,
.t 3 . which wa s limit torque switch, and Limi Torque l 4 . claims _that when they sent us the Limi Torque 5 actuator, tha t the torque switch is balanced when it-i 6 comes, and there is a discrepancy between MOVATS 4 '
7 saying-it is'not necessarily that is true. Limi
! 8 Torque'is saying when they ship their equipment, .the I
9 torque swi tch .is balanced. 4 10 MR. BEARD: Tha t was some' years ago. l 11 MR.'BAJESTANI: Recently. 12 .MR. BEARD: It was-shipped some years ago?
- q- l' 3 MR. BA,iESTANI Yes.
%J 14 MR. ROGERS: Limit.corque aays z whenethey
- .15 "leove t h e' -f a c to ry ,. the thing-is b a'la n c e d .
16 MR. BAJESTANI: . Yes, sir. ' 17 MR. ROGERS: MOVATS'has found in cases it i
-18 is not balanced or has found occasions it is not 4
19 . balanced. . 20 .When you took i t a pa r t,: was it ba' lanced or I 21 not1 balanced?- 22 MR. BAJESTANI': According to MOVATS, it l 23 wasn't balanced. :
. l 24 MR. ROGERS:' When you ~ took'it apart, was
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ou 1 it ~ balanced or unbalanced? , . () 2 MR. LONG: When we did the visual 3 inspection, AF 608 visual inspection, it was 4 difficult, we could not notice any preload on the 5 torque switch. e 6 -on AF 599, the ' f a ce - pla te .o f the t.o r q u e i 7 switch did have a slight canter to it, indicating d :that i t wa s imbalanced. 9 MR. ROGERS': MOVATS was right.
~10 MR. LONG: Yes.
11 MR. CHARBONNEAU: .Since this is going into i p 12 a public record,'l would like to clarify one thing. l - 13 110 VATS never s ta ted tha t the. torque switches are 14 typically shipped'from Limi Torque-unbalanced. j 15 our position is we don't know whether they 16 are balanced or not. Did you get all of t ha t? 17 MR. ROSSI: Now, I would like to ask the a 18 last question before we caucus, and the la s t 19 question before we caucus is directed to Toledo 20 Edison, and that is wha t do you expect from this. '
-21 meeting?
s j . 22 MR., PETERS: Can'we discuss that after the !~ l 23 . caucus? l 24 'MR. ROSSl: We were going to discuss your ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700 w'
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\ 09 1 e xpe c ta tions during our caucus. Maybe if you want n
(j 2 to. 3 MR. HURRAY: One thing, we were with this 4 meeting trying to accomplish bringing to you the 5 information we had found regarding cause of problem, 6 as we have talked here. 7 We started to get off onto what corrective 8 . action was going to be. We are not yet ready to 9 talk about corrective action. 10 We need to take the da ta and develop the 11 corrective action. I am not sure we were trying to 12 do anything in this meeting other than bring to you gg 13 the information that we committed to bring to you. k) 14 HR. ROSSI: Why don't we caucus then. 15 (Shortbreak) 16 17 10 19 20 21 22 24 24 pJ s- ACC FUDERAL REPORTERS INC. (202) 347-3700
J r 70 l l 1 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we begin. We had l
!'"# 2 some discussions amongst ourselves in Region III and 3 we are uncomfortable about several things, and the 4 iirst one is xind of an easy one. We think you 5 ought to go and discuss what you think the root 6 cause is with LimiTorque and see do they agree with 7 that or do they have a problem that they think you 8 havan't found i t, you know, t ha t kind of thing? I 9 would assume tha t isb't very hard to do? Have you 10 done that yet?
11 MR. LONG: No, we ha ve n ' t. 12 MR. ROSSI: We would like to know the (~)s ( 13 results of that when you do it. 14 The other problem is in looking at some 15 sketches we drew on the board in the other room, we 16 are a little concerned about how much you Know about 17 exactly how you got the DP across the valve during 18 the time that you were trying to open i t, because it 19 appears that there is a check valve in the line on 20 one side and that the suxiliary feedpump came up to 21 the hign speed and tripped and you had the steam 22 generator pressure on the other side. Have you 23 looked at that as to exactly how you got tne DP, r3 24 what caused it, and what effect that the pump coming N.) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
71 1 up to speed was and that kind of thing? Have you o
.2 done that kind of analysis of _the piping layout, or 3 have you jumped to the conclusion that there must
~
4 have been a DP? l 1 5 MR. LONG: I tried to go through the 6 scenario trying to decide what was happening'with
-7 the.feedpump. From what I saw, I couldn't come up i 8 with a conclusion exactly what caused the DP.
9 MR. ROSSI: If you get a DP, you have to i 10 nave a leak at least in one of the check valves; is 11 that true? i 12 MR. LONG: Yes, either in the check valve
! r^s
( ,) 13 or in the steam generator recirc line. 14 MR. ROSSI: I guess the bottom line of l 15 tnat is you haven't been able-to reproduce the 16 failure at all in either valves? ' 17 MR."LONG: Correct. 18 MR. ROSSI: It would a ppea r ._ to us you 19 ought to look at doing a teJt where you can 20 reproduce the failure and in.some informal 21 discussions that we had, that looked like there 22 ought to be ways to-do a test that don't involve l 23 taking the plant apart:or anything. There ought to
- 24 be ways of pressurizing the_ lines between two valves ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
! (202) 347-3700 l g y ,i- -w--yr- w- w w-L *-
72 1 and between the eneck valve and a valve and actually g/ i '" 2 having a DP there and doing a before and after test 3 to show that both valves fail with DP and when you 4 change the setting on the bypass switches that they 5 don't fail. I mean, that is the way it looks to us. 6 Now, did anybody else have any comments? 7 MR. BEARD: Do you have-any response? 8 MR. MURRAY: I would like to think about 9 what you said before we respond. 10 MR. ROSSI: You haven't been able to 11 reproduce the failure and whether you had a DP or 12 not depends on a lot of assumptions and there is (% () 13 just an uneasy feeling that maybe that isn't the 14 problem. Let me put it a different way, we would 15 have a lot easier feeling in our minds if you could 16 put a DP across the valve and you got the failure 17 again and without the DP you don't get a failure and 18 then with the DP and bypass switch adjusted, you 19 don't get a failure. We would leave, 1 guess, those 20 details up to you as to what you can and can't do 21 a r. d whuthor that is not- possible to do. I assume 22 you understand our uneasiness of not being able to 23 reproduce the failure. 24 MR. BEARD: I think that to understand ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
73 1 where we are coming from maybe it is important to (~ )
# recognize that in tnis event it appeared that there 2
3 were either two independent failures or common modo 4 failure of these two valves which would have had the 5 result of loss of safety-function auxiliary
- 6. feedwater system and, therefore, it is, I think, 7 important both from your viewpoint and ours to have 8 as good a possible understanding and confirmation 9 that we Know the root cause and you Know the root 10 cause because loss of safety function is an 11 important item.
12 MR. LONG: I made the statement earlier s
) 13 that these valves had a normally open signal from 14 SFRCS and Mr. Miller clarified that for ma saying 15 that they had an open signal but it wasn't a normal 16 signal. It was a signal because we had a loss of 17 all tour reactor coolant pumps.
18 MR. BEARD: That is because that was the 19 plant condition at the time you did the tests? 20 MR. LONG: Yes. 21 MR. ROSSI: We would like to hea r wha t you 22 decido on thic, because I think we have given you 23 our concerns and we would like to hear back from you l fs 24 after you nave thought about it. O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. l (202) 347-3700
l 74 1 MR. BEARD: I assume on this and other
/ ) i
' 2 items, this is the first meeting we have had where )
I 3 you folks have como and told us the results of your 4 troubleshooting effort and you have identified the
,5 root cause. I assume at some point you will come 6 out with a report that we will receive with all that 7 information in it.
8 MR. MURRAY: That is true. Do you want to 9 take five minutes and talk amongst oursolves and 10 then get back? 11 MR. ROSSI: You may want to spend more 12 than tivo minutes taking a look at what is involved () 13 in this because, you know -- that is up to you, if 14 you want to take five minutes and come back, that is 15 fine, or we can breax up for this meeting and meet 16 later in the afternoon. 17 MR. WOOD: I think we should break up and 18 meet later. 19 MR. RAWLES: We do have another action 20 plan, tne one handed out on the trip throttle valve. 21 MR. BEYER: We said today would be 22 acceptable for comments if you have comments. 23 MR. ROSSI: We had two more things, I
,.e'3 24 think, that Bill and I talked about scheduled for N!
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)-347-3700
75 1 today. Now, we may have this one scheduled also.
~
2 We were going to talk about the trip throttle valve 3 at some point this afternoon. 4 The other thing we wanted to do is at 4:00 5 this afternoon we wanted to have another meeting on 6 the. sequence of events to get an update on anything 7 that has been learned on the sequence of events 2 during the time that we have been here that might 9 affect the accuracy of the sequence of events that 10 we gave you a couple days ago, our first produced l 11 sequence of events. We also had a few questions 12 which I am going to try to get to Bill an hour or so l /~'s j (_j 13 before that meeting, but we wanted to get a good 14 last dump of what has been learned before we leave. I 15 MR. BEARD: Make sure when we leave 16 tonight that the quarantine list that we all are l 17 working from is the same document and is up to date. I 18 MR. GRIME: What about the SFitCS plan? 19 MR. ROSSI: You had better give us the 20 SFRCS plan to taxe back to Washington with us. I 21 don't think tha t one will be quicx. 22 MR. BEARD: You mean in terms of a meeting 23 to discuss it? S 24 MR. ROSSI: That one I think it is not b ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
76 1 feasible to do this afternoon. That is not going to
,c, 'd 2 be a one-hour review.
3 MR. BEARD: If it is available it would be 4 certainly to your advantage and ours to givo it to 5 us as early as you can. 6 MR. GRIME: Would that be applicable to 7 any of the action plans? 8 MR. BEARD: I think so, but if it is 9 finished and ready to be presented this afternoon, 10 then maybe we can get copies rather than wait and 11 get them three days from now or something like that. 12 MR. ROSSI: Now, the other thing, () 13 obviously, we are going bacx to Washington tomorrow, 14 so on Monday we will reconvene with people in 15 Washington to see where we stand and let them know 16 what we - are doing and where we go from here. We 17 nave had a number of conference calls with it, but I 18 am sure on Monday _ people will get a better 19 unde rs ta nding of what we have been doing and action 20 plans and how we have been handling them and all of 21 that. We are going to have to decide. I think the 22 question is when we come back aoout whether -- 23 MR. MURRAY: Until you come back can we N 24 send to you actions plans and get back from you (d ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
77 1 comments on them so that we can continue making / ')
'# 2 progress toward our troubleshooting effort?
3 MR. ROSSI: Certainly, I think you 4 definitely want to send them to us and we will 5 definitely try to figure out some arrangements so 6 that we can respond in some reasonably prompt way. 7' MR. BEARD: Details of logistics of 8 whetner it is sent by phone or some other mechanism 9 may be yet to be discussed or whatever, but we 10 certainly intend to give you a prompt response. 11 MR. ROSSI: It may be we fly back on 12 Tuesday, that is one possibility. Maybe your people (','j\ 13 are asked to fly there, that is another possibility. , 14 MR. MURRAY: Ta1 King about the schedule 15 for the rest of the attornoon, let me propose one. 16 I am trying to get the nuclear mission staff 17 together for a staff meeting at 2:00, and I need to 18 have some time with Region III and would like to 19 senedule that for 3:00 and then back with you for 20 aequence ot ovents and wrap up on this APW 608, 599 21 thing at the same time. 22 MR. ROSSI: That sounds good. The only 23 other thing, if we could fit it in thare, might be r3 24 tho action plan on the auxiliary feedwater -- soll, O ACB FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
78 1 the overspeed I don't think they have given us one,
'~' 2 the overspeed trip. If we could work that in and we 3 could worx the sequence of events in this afternoon, 4 that would be good. Whatever you want to talx about 5 on this 608, 599.
6 MR. MURRAY: Three items on the agenda for 7 a 4:00 meeting. 8 MR. ROSSI: We will be here again like we 9 were last time. 10 MR. BEARD: The reason we would like to 11 get that in is just so we are assured we are not in 12 your critical path and we are not holding you up. (b q,) 13 If we are not holding you up, that is a different 14 matter. 15 MR. MURRAY: The completion of these 16 action plans is the critical path for us. We have 17 got to get them produced and get them in to you and 18 get your comments. That is very definitely a part l 19 of our path. Anybody having problems with that 20 proposed schedule? l ! 21 MR. ROSSI: Sequence of events, you want 22 to meet at 4:00 to try to do all this after 4:007 I l 23 mean, we nave got the overspeed trip throttle valve l rx 24 action plan, we might be able to talk about earlier U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 l
79 1 sometime. ('# I 2 MR. MURRAY: Are you going to be in a 3 position to tsik on that one? It is 3:15 to 3:30. 4 I need you in the 3:00 meeting. We can split up. 5 We can have a Region III meeting going on. 6 MR. SHAIFER: I don't see us taking an 7 hour tor our briefing. Okay. 8 MR. MURRAY: Maybe we can get what has to 9 be done today between now and 2:00 to allow us to-10 get started as early as 3:00 on these other things. 11 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we try to get bacx 12 together at 3:007 () 13 MR. MURRAY: Or a little thereafter. 14 MR. ROSSI: Scheduling since we have been 15 here has been flexible. We will talk about the 16 overspeed trip that we didn' t talk about yesterday 17 and then at 4:00 we will tain about the sequence of 18 events and you can give us some quick feedback on 19 what we just told you on 608. Then between now and 20 3:00 or earlier, we ought to try to get whatever 21 guidance we can to you for the 4:00 meeting, 22 questions that we would like your best answers on on 23 the. sequence of events. The thing on sequence of 24 events is just going to have to be what you Know at ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
80 1 this point and notjanything that ought to take a 73
~
2 long time. 3 Just make sure that whoever knows the 4- latest on the sequence ot events is there and tells 5 us where they have found new information that signt > 6 reflect on the accuracy of our sequence of events,
; 7 and I -will try to.get Bill some specific questions 8 tha t -.we have got, and if you have got answers to ,
9 them, fine. If you don't have answers to them, that
- 10 is fine too, because, you know, we are just trying to get as much information as we can.
12 MR. BEARD: The items that I nave noted, () 13 - the-majority of'the questions are what is the best 14 available information at this point in time on a
-15 given matter.
16 MR. ROSSI: On the sequence of events? 17 MR. BEARD: On the sequence of events. 18 Just' to maXe sure when we leave here, we have as 19 much up to date as we can get. ! 20 -MR. ROSSI: Some indication what you are 21 basing that on, certain computer printout.you might' 22 have so we can verify that. Tha t is a best effort 23 thing. . This=is going to go on for a while. I am l 24 sure things-will be found on a new sequence of
- ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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l ': events. -t g. T 2 MR. RAWLES: It is a matter-of getting 3' questions'sent back to them so they can answer them. 4 MR. ROSSI: Can we adjourn this one and !s 5 meet at 3:00 . or'soon enereafter? .
.(Snort Ibreak.)
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82 1 MR. ROSSI: This meeting is on the action 7-~ , t :
'"' 2 plan for the auxiliary feedwater pump turbine 3 overspeed trip throttle valve problem. Let me start.
4 Well, I have got just one question, really, 5 and that is the question on the very last page where 6 you talk about tests to open the valve against full 7 steam generator pressure and making an adjustment 8 for manufacturer's instructions to make sure that 9 that can be opened with a normal force applied. My
.10 question is has tha t kind of test and adjustment 11 ever been'made before on the auxiliary teedwater 12 pump turbines?
r'S (,j 13 MR. HOLDEBRANDT: We are unaware if tne 14 test has been made before. No records show that it 15 nas been mado. 16 MR. ROSSI: No records show it has been 17 made. I just wanted to get a feel for the kind of 18 things that were routinely done with this. It 19 appears this is not something routinely done. 20 J . T .' , I thinx, has some comments and 21 questions. 22 MR. BEARD: I would like to ask a general 23 . ques tion a t the front and that is I would be (~) 24 interested to know to what extent or what type of
't )
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
. . -. ~ . . . .~ , . . . . . ~ .
t P s 83 1 vendor notices have you received from the Terry :
- O'.. s 2 turbine ~. folks or'other related vendors related to
-.3 2
the trip' throttle-valve.-and to what. extent do they
- 4 relate-to this issue?- ,
5 -MR. HILDEBRANDT:- I am unaware that any u 6' 'have come to this' company. It is not addressed in i
- .77 theEreport and we:should perhaps.ask tnat question. ,.
8 It was not addressed here. If it.had been looked i-9 into in-the preparation report, I think it would 10 have been addressed here. 1 1 -' .MR. BEARD: I guess the reason for 12- bringing up the question-is the" obvious lesson that h : 13 we have' learned that ~ there.may be vendor notices JL <4 .that-you'may not have received, but that is'the only 15- reason. . 16 MR. .ROSSI: _. Terry turbine is going to be j 17' L~nvolved i in this plan and also in the work that goes 1.
- 18 _ with this plan, right, you are helping?
'1 9 MR. HILDEBRANDT Yos, sir, that is
. 2 Cf correct.
21 MR.. BEARDS. I had a second comment that I , 2'2 will:get~ to. - .In the back of the. action, plan when 23 . you get :-tof the : specific . table listing"the: de tails of 24 Ethe action plan, on-the second-page', step No. 3 says ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202).347-3700 4 > b
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84 l 1 that you plan on performing an exercise of the
overspeed trip linkage for aux feedpump turbine 2
I 3 No. 1 and No. 2. My question is do we run a risk { f 4 here of this exercise impacting potential causes or 5 making things go away as we nave with other 6 equipment in reactor plants around the country? 7 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Your question is -- let 8 me rephrase it to make sure I understand your 9 question -- that in doing so would remove any 10 evidence of what might have been the problem; is 11 tnat what you are asking? 12 MR. BEARD: I don't thinx it is in the
- rx
(_) 13 context of removing or destroying evidence. Let me , 14 give you an example. The particular piece of , 15- equipment I have in mind is the reactor trip breakers. 16 We know trom experience that after the device has 17 been exercised once or twice, possibly just in 1 18 removal.from its cubicle, that its performance 1 19: thereafter is substantially atfacted. 1 20 I am trying to understand here, since you l U 21 say " exercise," I guess I should say to what extent 22 has that been considered in light of upsetting what 23 you may want to be trying to find? ( 's 24 MR. HILDEBRANDT: _The intent-here is to go L) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 m . . . . . . . . . . , .
85
-1 through and see w h a t' is the condition of the t ) ~'
2 overspeed trip linkage, in the process of doing so, 3 we may maxe it moro easily movable, in fact. The ST 4 that is called out here does that periodically, as 5 you infer from the paragraph. on a judgment we 6 would like to understand how it is working before ) l 7 using it for subsequent operation of the turbine to 8 make auro that the overspeed trip is working 9- correctly and in the process of getting to that 10 point, understand what appears to have been any 11 problem with that overspeed trip linkage by the 12 investigation. rN j () 13 MR. BEARD: I guess it may be that the 1 14 nature of the boast here is such that hopefully it 15 may be sufficiently different from previous 16 experience with other pieces of equipment that this 1 17 may not be a problem, but I did have a question in l l 18 this area. I 19 MR. HILDEBRANDT: It is an exposed 20 mecnanical piece of equipment, fairly straight 21 forward, intends to go in and look, examine, 22 determine whether_there appears to be parts 23 incorrectly dimensioned, bowed, whatever the problem g3 24 may be, but then to restore it, ensure it is good L.) ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. p (202) 347-3700
/
/
86 1 before we go on to running of the turbine, as was 2 discussed in the other action plan, to maxo sure 3 this is indeed operable. 4 MR. BEARD: It just occurs to me that, I 5 don't mean at this moment it occurs to me, but I had 6 considered that tho overspeed trip mechanism is one 7 of those that you hope won' t be needed, won't be 8 used, so it would sit hopefully in a stagnant 9 condition most of the time and then be called upon 10 to operate, so that initial thrust part of it may be 11 of concern, but I guess that is more of a concern 12 with regard to the overspeed trip itself of those b, 13 two pieces of equipment rather than what you have 14 identitied as you broke this program up. Roally in 15 tnis action plan I guess you are trying to address 16 the area, the problems in relatening it, and the 17 difficulty of turning the trip throttle valve la afterwards or in the process to relatch it. 19 Maybe my comment would be better 20 considered in the context of the overspeed trip than 21 in this particular area, but I throw it out so if it 22 is worth anything you can consider it. If it is not 23 worth anything, then you can dispose of it.
~x 24 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Make sure we don't lose ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
(202) 347-3700
87 1 that information.
, ># 2- MR. BEARD: Look into the matter.
3 MR. ROSSI: Do you have anything more? 4 MR. BEARD: Those are the only two 5 comments that I think ought to be presented at this 6 time.
'7 MR. ROSSI: Wayne, do you have a n y t hi;;g ?
8 MR. SHAIFER: Yes, I have a couple of J 9 ' comments. On page 5 where you are talking about the i 10 maintenance and surveillance / testing history, I note 4 11 on_the surveillance conducted on 5, 21, 23, and 6, I 12 guess-I have the same basic question. You say very n i ,) 13 specifically that no problems were reported with i 14- either the. linkage or valve opening. 15 Similarily, on 5, 23 you say no problem 16 with linkage relatch or valve opening. Were there 17- any problems reported at all? 18 MR. HILDEBRANDT: No, sir. What you
-19 see here is basically a reiteration of what the 20 maintenance worx' order. states, and we can only s ta te 21 - wha t - the maintenance work' order states. There is no-
< 22 other information available. In some cases it 23 doesn't address both~ questions.
(j 24 MR. SHAIFER: If you1go to the next one'on
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88 1 page 6,~you state categorically no problems were
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2- ~ reported,-but I saw that and I went back to see the 3 same surveillance effort, you were very specific as 4 to what kind of problems were not reported. That is
-5 why I asked the-question.-
6 MR. HILDEBRANDT: No problems were 7 reported at all. Yes, sir, I understand your 8 question.
'9 MR. ROSSI: I think I heard you say tho ,
10 words you have ~down here are essentially the same 11 words that were-written on the maintenance work 12 order. () '13 MR. HILDEBRANDT: It is only repeating 14 what is_there. Nothing else is really available. 15 MR. ROSSI: Whoever wrote the words there 16 may have seen the same thing'each time and just ; , 17 worded it different each time?. 18 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Yes. 19 MR. ROSSI: So there is nothing more 20 implied in the difference of wording than that is 21 all that was there and_that is the way. it was worded 22- on the maintenance work order? 23 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Yes.
.24 MR. BEARD: ' Did you attempt to try to talk ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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I. 21. to the. people who did this maintenance? . !.. h, '. 2 MR. HILDEBRANDT: I believe Mr. Gradomski 3- did. 4 4 MR. BEARD:, Your research did include more ,
;5. . than just reading'the work orders? .
t 6 MR. HILDEBRANDT: Yes, sir. i-7 MR. SHAIFER:. If we can go on. to page 7 l l 8- under the-hypotheses, although'there have been no l . j'. >9 reported ~ problems 'associa ted -with relatching of the l 1 : 10 overspeed. trip device during regularly scheduled
. 11 testing, personnel involved in the ~ evolutions:had-12 noticed some difficulty.~ ' could you explain a little
(): 13 be tter L wha t 'tha t. dif ticulty is? 14 MR. HILDEBRANDT:: A discussion-appears to 15 . be one of more along'theilines of what was -run n into
-16 ' during .the. transient,l tha t 'it. Jim ~ dif ficult 17' ~occasionallyfto,reseatzthe? latch. You need to put ,
i 18; some English,behindLit, it.you will,-to:getlthe 19 latch to take. 'It-is a.large mechanical device that 20 is. spring ~1oaded. Nonproblems~1n the sense that it 21 does'not<worx,.but difficult in the sense that 1 f
- - 22 ocassionally it is difficult to relatch i t, - tha t is, t .
I 1!3 'it.is[ difficult to overcome the spring force to ' i , relatch it. It is a very general statement. 24 That
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2 MR. ROSSI: Tha t was based primarily on 3 . discussions with people rather than written? 4 MR. HILDEBRANDT Tha t was my 5 understanding. That was passed on to me by 6 Mr. Gradomski. 7 MR. BEARD: ~ Do-we want to gonoff-the 8- record? I wanted to raise the question if you 9 . wanted to go off the record. I guess we don' t , so. 10- Wayne, you,are going on? 11 MR. SHAIFER:- Yes, I am going on. I
- 12 don't have
- any more questions. Pete, do you have
-O 13 anv7 14 MR. WOHLD: If I read it'right, they are 15 apparently going to do a test with the full pressure?
16 MR. ROSSI: Test and an adjustment, as I 17 understand it. More than just a test if you are , 18 going to adjust it.so that it rela tively takes 19 normal types of valve forces-to open it up and you 20 don't need a valve wrench. ' 21 MR. HILDEBRANDT: .Yes, sir. The 22 adjustment apparently is of limited capability. You 23 can adjust it to provide'less opening force required 24 on the throttle trip valve. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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r t 91 1 MR.;WOHLD:. Is this another potential 2' generic: item? You said very few incidences have 3 occurred where they have tried to reset the trip and
'4 throttle valve withithe full steam pressure? j
-5 MR. HILDEBRANDT At this plant the <
l 6 surveillance requirements, that is the testing that
-7 is done on'these are done at low pressure, 200-plus 1 I
S pounds, I don't remember the exact pressure, between 9 200 and 330 pounds, and they;have not done it ;
'l 10' against a. thousand or 900-pound type number. I l
11 don't'know how that applies to other plants. 12 MR. ROSSI: Well, this one appears to have 1 () 13
~
low generic applica tions because it does indicate 14 that they are adjusting things in accordance with 15 the manufacturer's instructions, so what is going on , 16 at other plants to a large extent would depend.on 17 the preventive maintenance programs and so forth. , 18 Preventive maintenance-in general may be a generi; 19 problem, but aside from that.I don't see it as one. 20 Anything else? Okay I guess we don' t have 21 any more comments on this one. 22 MR. BEARD: Can I ask you a question? Is 23 this an appropriate time to bring up the question 24 about the quarantine list, or should we do that {)} ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 2
92
'l separately?
. 2- MR.-ROSSI: Bring it up. What is the 3 question?
- 4. MR. BEARDS. We have received in the last
.5 hour, I guess it is Rev 4 of your quarantine list or 6 you call,it.the equipment freeze list, and on the
.7 first'page of that right below item No. 11 there is 8 a change barJin the left-margin marked change three.
9 It appears there is nothing in that space and-it i 10 leads me to believe something was deleted, and I 11 would lixe to-understand what was deleted. 12 MR. ROSSI: I know what it was. That had () 13 been discussed with me. 14 MR. WIDEMAN: What happened was it was 15 partly my fault tor not reviewing it a little more 16 closely, was we-had initially put the steam traps in 17 the drains for the turbine bypass valve neader as a 18 sepa ra te -item, then we moved it under, I believe it 19 'is item 7, and it didn' t get deleted oft, so Rev 3 20 deleted those off of there and we left the blank 21 there. 22 MR. BEARD: I see. I just wanted to make 23 sure I understood. 1' 24 MR. ROSSI: I assume tha t these revisions, ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) J47-3700
' 93 1 you have records of them all? If somebody nad a -S'DC '
2- question of what did you.do between Rev 2 and Rev 3 ' 3- six months from now, you could go back to your tiles - 4- 'a n d tind ~ tha t; is that correct? 5 MR. WIDEMAN: That is correct. 6 ~- MR. BEARD: It was an administrative 7- correction? ; i S MR. WIDEMAN: -Y e s . I 9 MR. ROSSI: _Okay, then this meeting is I 10 finished for right now. 4 j 11 (Short break.) 9 12 . O 13 14 , 15 t i 16 17 L 1 j 18
! 19 i
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f 94
- 1. MR. ROSSI 'What we are going to do now i s O
2 just find out whether.there is any new information 3 .from any analyses or ovaluations or anything else 4 4 that anybody has found out during the two weeks that 1 5 we have.been up here-on the sequence of events with i
.6 respect to.anything that might affect the accuracy l l
7 of the-NRC sequence.of. events that was sont out on 8 ~ June 19th, I guess.: 1 t 9 MR. BEARD: .What we called our Rev 1, that ! l. 10 is the date' of the event. The date of the document i 11 is Rev-1, 8:30 a .m. ,- J une 19th, 1985 as written in 12 the handwriting there.
, () 13 MR. ROSSI: Maybe the.best thing to do.is 14 can you just tell us for starters whether you know i
15 of anytning new that.has developed that affects the-16 sequence of events? 17- MR. SHAIFER: Would you'tell me what date 18 of your suquence of events is, what_rev? i
- 19 MR. ROSSI
- The licensee sequence of
- 20 events?
l 21 MR. SHAIFER: Yes. 22 MR. ROSSI: What is the latest one you have 23 written? 24 MR. BATCH: We have'not updated our ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)-347-3700 i
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95 1 sequence of events from the time'of Rev O, June 14,
.p.,
2 1985. 2 3 MR. . BEARD: ~They had.a sequence of events , 4 I think on the same day, did you not, or maybe it d ,
. 5 5 was the day before?. The. day before. They had one 6 dated June: 18.
t
! 7 MR. SHAIFER: I don' t have it. That is 8 why-I asked the question.
6 i 9 MR. BEARD: .My memory is they had one 10 dated June 18th a t '12 :00 or something thereabouts, i ~ i 11 That was one that we=were handed'just' prior to going '
. 12 into the meeting wherein we discussed our sequence
() 13 of events. We walked into the meeting with Rev 0 14 and basically came out of the meeting and i , 15- deliberated-the comments and we created Rev 1 of 16 ours. 17 MR. BATCH: I did have several comments on I 18 .the Rev 1 NRC sequence of events tha t we have here. 19 .I guess it"is page 4, at the top of the.pages where ' 20 the time is 1:53:22. We had maae the comment the 21 last time, 1.think-most of it got incorporated there. e 22 There is.just a little confusion.where the last i 23 added sentence should be added to, the pump would 1 24 not control from the control room. Tha t really ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ! (202) 347-3700
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f 96 1 - should stay at the 1:53:22 time trame and should not s h' 2' be moved to the 2:01 time frame. I don't.know it it i' . 3' is clear where that iis supposed to go.
~4 MR. ROSSI: No, it is not clear as a 5 matter of fact the way it is written here, would
- 1. ,
16 have moved that to 2:01. You are saying tne pump i- 7 would not control from the control room on a stay 4 8 with the 1:53;22 time? 9 MR. BATCH: That is correct. 4 I 10' MR. ROSSI: We will probably reword that l 11 to,say something like the pump could not be 12 controlled from the control room, so that is really ; t () 7 13- correct; right? , 14 MR. BATCH: Right. , 15 Page 5, we made this comment the last time. 16 I am not sure it we didn't maxe our. point clear or ! 17 it you decided not to in-orporate it, but in the , i 4 18 middio ot the page under the additional i 1
. 19 complications, the third item where it talks about 1
20 the desuperheating spray, that is only one possible i 21- explanation there. I don't think that has been 1 22 confirmod at all. This comes out a little too 23 positively.
- g 24 MR. BEARD
- Now, recognize that when wo 1 d '
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97 1 wrote this this was the only explanation that your
~
2 company had come forward witn, not anything else. 3 In a meeting the morning of the 19th, I believe it 4 was on the subject of the action plan related to the 5 turbine bypass valve failure, that we got into a 6 discussion and at that time it came to light 7 essentially on the heals of the issuance of this 8 document that the more plausible or more lixely 9 thing was something else and we have not revised our 10 document since then. 11 MR. BATCH: Wnen we reviewed the Roy O of 12 this, we just ouggested you add the words "it is ' (): 13 possible." 14 MR. ROSSI: Is it still even possible that 15 it is tne desuperheating spray? 16 MR. WOOD: The first sentence is still 17 correct. It is the conclusion then that is drawn by la the second sentence that can't be supported.
~19 MR. ROSSI: Aren't we pretty sure now that 20 the desuperheating spray was not *no cause of the 21 water hammer?
22 MR. WOOD: We are reasonably sure -- 23 MR. BEARD: That that is not the cause? gS 24 MR. WOOD: -- but since we have not O ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
90 1 pinpointed what the cause is, it is difticult tor us n s i 2 to say absolutely it would not be this. 3 MR. BEARD: I thinK we are trying to put 4 down what is the best shot at this time, and I 5 remember at the meeting that you were referring to 6 earlier it was suggested that we add after the 7 second sentence, "it is believed." We took that 8 comment under advisement. We decided the 9 preliminary nature of this thing said that by 10 definition that this is our best shot at this time,' 11 so it can be changed without notice, immediate 12 change. We did not tind it necessary to add the () 13 words "it is believed" in the second sentence. We 14 did consider tne comment. 15 MR. ROSSI: Probably what we ought to do 16 at this point in time would be to just delete the 17 part about the desuperheating spray, or we can say la the desuperneating spray allowed water into the main . 19 steam piping also when vacuum was restored and the 20 MSIV opened, tnere was water hammer damage to the , 21 turbine bypaso valve. We understand now more about 22 the fact tha t the desuperheating spray is not nearly 4 23 as likely now to have caused that damage as we 24 originally thought. Okay. Anything more? ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ! (202) 347-3700 l
^
, 99 J
~ 1 MR. BATCH: Not on the sequence of events ;
.'# b 2 Rev 1. We did get a copy of your questions just l 3 prior to this meeting. I can go through and try to ,
- 4. summarize what our responses are on that. The first 5 one --
1
'6 MR. BEARD: Hold on just a second. Let me 7 catch-up. I have got to get my piece of paper 8- arranged here.
9 MR. ROSSI Why don't you go ahead. The
~ 10 first one was the general question, have you learned 4
11 anything new that affects our sequence of events. I 12 MR. BATCH: In general wo cound no new () 13 significant items in the transient analysis that 14 have not been put forward. Each of these individual i
, 15 items have found out some significant things, what i
16 they believe the root causes may be in some of those
! 17 analyses, but as far as the plant transient and its 18 analysis, we have found no new significant items.
19 I would like to go through these other ! L 20 items, and I think partHof the problem is on some i 21 of these additional items is that you have not yet 22 received tne plans for things like the startup - 23 teedwater valve. You have not seen wha t Toledo i 24 Edison's plan is for that yet. That is where some ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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l 100 1 ot your questions are. [) i 2 You have questions on what is the latest 3 information on the operation of the startup teedpump 4 control valve SP7A. We Know that both s ta rtup 5 feedwater valves SP7A and SP7B did operate correctly 6 during the transient. Both position indication we 7 have and aux teedwater flow indication is available 8 showing bocn thoso valves did operate. The 9 confusion that was with the operators was tne result 10 of a burned out light bulb enat was in the reset 11 iight on the reset for SP7A. Not knowing if the 12 reset was granted to him, ne did not Know right away () 13 he had control of that valvo. 14 MR. BEARD: If the light were functioning 15 properly, but did not come on, would enat be 16 indicative that ne had not regained control? 17 MR. BATCH Right. 18 MR. BEARD: So the indication, albeit 19 burned out bulb, was no had not regained control and 20 therefore the valve would be presumed to be staying 21 in tne closed position? 22 HR.-BATCH He did not believe he had 23 control ot the valve. Right, that is not really a r3 24 position indication. The reset is only wnether or (
%,)
ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
i 101 ; 1 not the'SFRCS signal was reset. m 2 MR. BEARD: But the SFRCS signal would 3 have closed it. 4 MR. BATCH: Would have left it closed, 5 tnat is correct. 6 MR. BEARD: Therefore, if he nadn't 7 regained it, he would be-very reasonable in 8 assuming that it had remained in a closed position? 9 MR. BATCH 3 That is correct. 10 MR. ROSSI: I da not sure I understand now. , 11 He had a burned out light bulb on the reset valve 12 SP7A. Did that mean he did not try to open SP7A as () 13 a result of that, or are you saying he opened SP7A 14 but didn' t think he had opened it? 15 MR. BATCH: I am not sure if it was the 16 same operator that pushed the reset button, the 17 light that didn't come on that opened the valve in i 18 the front, but the valve was opened in the front
- 19 using the chrome switches.
20 MR. ROSSI: Oxay, so SP7A was opened and 21 you verified that trom the sequence of events 22 printout or-the alarm printout, one of those? 23 MR. D AT Cil The DADS data does show both
<3 24 tiow and valve position showing both startup
)
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 h
102 1 feedwater valves did respond. (D
'"' 2 MR. ROSSI: And you had flaw to both steam 3 generators from the startup feedwater pump.
4 MR. D A T C il : That is correct. 5 MR. ROSSI: Did the flow going to steam 6 generator.No. 2 occur prior to or after the 7 auxiliary food flow occurred to steam generator 27 8 MR. BATCH: We had startup flow indicating 9 a't approximately 1:51:30 to the steam generators. 1 10 MR. ROSSI: 51:307 11 MR. BATCil Yes, approximately that. At 12 about 1:51124, I believe, was the exact time. () 13 MR. ROSSI: Say it again. 14 MR. B AT Cit : 1:51 24, and at 1:53319 we had 15 our auxiliary feedwater flow start to show, so it 16 was definitely before the auxiliary feodwater flow. 17 MR. BEARD: Is this time that you just 18 gave us -- is it Stan? 19 MR. BATCH: Yes. 20 MR. BEARD: -- the 1:51124, is that the 21 time the startup feedwater flow went to the first of 22 the two steam generators or went to both or what is 23 tha t? 24 MR. B AT Cil They both went right within a ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
103 1 few-seconds there. -1:51:30, in that neignborhood f} - 2 they did both have flow. It is on your DADS 3 printout that you do have showing that both. It is 4 computer. points F878-and F879. l
.5 MR. ROSSI: So the times that you are 6 giving us are the times corresponding to the alarm 7 printout?
8 MR. DATCH No, I am giving you off the 9 DADS printout now. l 10 MR. ROSSI: This is DADS printout time? ! 11 MR. BATCH Right. l 12 MR. BEARD: Is there a clear and obvious () '13
~
indication on the DADS numerical printout that flow 14 was achieved in the No. 2 steam generator as it was 15 in No. 17 16 MR. BATCH: There was a slight amount of 17 flow snown. I~ don't believe that to be instrument 18 error. I believe that is actually showing a flow. 19 MR. BEARD: I was thinking more in line of 20 for a period of time there was some value maybe 21 approximating zero and it went to some value rather 22 than it was just bobbling along at relatively the
- 23- same'value throughout.
24 MR. BATCH That is correct. It did ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
. .c i 104
. 11 definitely indicate above what was the zero (- 2 - indication. 3 MR. BEARD: For both of them? < 4 MR. BATCH: Right, and we did get flow and d 5 valve positions and we even show steam generators
; 6 repressurizing at this time. There definitely was !. .7 water going in. '
j 8 'MR. ROSSI: Now, let me just be sure I o j 9 understand. The startup flow chen was the first . l 10' flow .to both of the steam-generators.
! -11 MR. BATCH That is correct.
l 12 MR. ROSSI: Not auxiliary flow? I () 13 MR. BATCH: That is correct. 14 I think we_ jumped a he a d ,- did the extra i 15' ones on that page, items three and four with your z , i 16 questions. 17 MR. ROSSI: You didn't address No. 2. I i 18 don't know whether you know anything about No. 2 or f 19 not. , i j 20~ MR. BATCH 2 No. 2, it is a little bit, you i { 21 know .tne sequence of events when the MSIV went ,
- R2 2 closed. I guess what you really are asting here is i
23 any hypotheses we have for why they went closed; is ^ 24 that' correct? ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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! ~1' MR. ROSSI: Yes, and 11 it is a very soft ' I
- ~2 hypotheses we can save it for troubleshooting.. !
1 L ll MR. JAIN: We have a preliminary action l l 4~ plan' prepared for it.- We have the soft hypotheses
- -5 right now.- I would suggest, though, tha t . we defer. -
1 i '6 the detailed discussion on'it until' tne final action { 7 plan.is submitted. [ 18 .MR. ROSSI -Le t's just skip 2 then. I i 9 don't think we even'need to talk about 2. l 10 MR. JAIN: We could give you the 1-11 hypotheses that we have now. ' 12 MR. ROSSI I guess some of us would like ] , , l i () 13 to hear. j 14 MR. BEARD: We would be receptive'to j ~ r j 15 hearing'your soft hypothesis. 1 16 MR.-JAIN: As Stan said, we have the SFRCS i i j 17 trip a t 1:35:31 and the alarm'typer shows that full i 1 l , 18 trip stayed for about three seconds. There is a two- ) j 19 second time delay, off delay,.if you will, so that ' 4 i ,' 20 the alarm then comes on. It stays at least for two 1 21 seconds, so the typer, when it said it stsyed for J 22 three seconds,'it could really have in actuality 4 l 23 stayed.for one second.- With that premise there, you i
- - 24 c"ould say that'the alarm was there only for a second
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l 106 l 1 or less. t'h,
\~/ 2 MR. ROSSI: You mean the real full trip 3 signal was there tor one second or less?
i 4 l MR. JAIN: Correct. The other hypothesis 5 there is that tnere were half-channel trips 6 occurring within the SPRCS fluctuation channels, and 7 if you postulate a strategical timing of those halt 8 trips coming along, you could potentially say that 9 you did have a-full SFRCS trip. 10 The full SPRCS trip is further supported 11 by reseat of the turbino trip alarm which came in 12 from the SFRCS, although the turbine was tripped () 13 before, but we got an SPRCS turbine trip alarm which 14 only comes when you have a tull trip, and the 15 contact says that the alarm comes on only when you 16 have a full trip of the SPRCS. 17 The other indication, of course, was la coming out of the SFRCS full trip alarm and also the 19 level trip alarm that came on. 20 MR. BEARD: You said there was a level 21 trip alarm? 22 MR. JAIN: Let me check that to be sure. 23 Excuse me, it was not a level trip. I was thinning 24 about the ARTS trip, Q777 is the computer point ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
_ . - - _ . - - . - . _. - . ._. . . . - ._. .~.-. . 107 1 'which comes on. This is the ARTS trip.
/~T~# 2 MR. BEARD: You are saying the ARTS trip 3 -- came in which is suggestive of what?
t. -{ , 4 MR. JAIN: The SFRCS also trips the ARTS, 5 but there are three parameters-of the SFRCS tha t
~
6 trip the ARTS and a. full trip oi ARTS coming in 7 auggestedithat we had a tuli trip of the SFRCS. 8 MR. BEARD: Are-you.saying that based on . 9 these indications of what had occurred, what is your i 10 conclusion with regard to the trip or partial' trip 11 or no trip or the SFRCS?, i 12 MR. JAIN: Let me get into that. So we () 13 are'taining about a momentary SFRCS full trip. The , 4 14 postulation we have tor the cause of it is the
- 15 spikes or the output of the level strength, steam 16 generator level strength, that feed the-SFRCS. We ;
l 17 have seen spurious half trips in the past when we I
- 18 have had turbine trips. We also have had da ta that i 19 a and W sent us from THIl from turbine trips wnich I
- 20 suggested that the level - transmitter or the level i
21 strength outputs could swing as much as about 70 to
'22 80 inches on a turbine trip, so given a startup l 23 level that we had of about-60 or 70 inches, before ,
t 24 the initiation of the transient, one or more of the
.O ACE FEDERAL. REPORTERS, INC.
(202) 347-3700
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108 1 level transmitters could have seen such a spike l resulting in a momentary trip signal to the SFRCS. 2 3 There have been several things tnat have happened to 4 support that. I would not like to go into those 5 just to save time, but that is the postulation on 6 spurious full trip, if you will, of tne SFRCS. 7 The question than comes, why did the MSIVs 8 only remain closed? wny didn't all of the SFRCS 9 actual equipesnt actuate? The hypothesis there is 10 tne MSIVs contain solenoid valves and have a typical 11 logic. They also have air-operated pilot valves or 12 air operated relays, if you want to es11 them. The () 13 postulation there is that the trip was so fast and 14 very, very momentary that the seal-in circuit did 15 seal in for the MSIVs to go closed, but a similar 16 situation for the startup control valves which are 17 of the same logic, selenoid valve operated, but 18 don't have the air-operated pilot valves or air-19 operated relays, did not seal in there. 20 MR. BEARD: Could you repeat that last 21 sentence about the seal-ins where the MSIVs 22 apparently did, but the anal-ins for what did not?. 23 MR. JAIN: For the otartup control valves 7S 24 which have a similar selenoid-operated logic did not LJ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
109 1 seal in. That is why we did not see the startup \d 2 control valves going closed. 3 MR. BEARD: They have a similar solenoid 4 tning? 5 MR. JAIN: Right, it was a five solenoid 6 valve and similar actuation channel arrangement. 7 MR. BEARD: But they did not? 8 MR. JAIN: Correct. 9 MR. ROSSI: These level transmitter spines, 10 are those what you call noise spikes that occurred 11 on the turbine trip, or are they actual fluctuations 12 in the lovel caused by the tripping of the turbine? rm I ,) 13 MR. JAIN: I would say it could be a noise 14 spike. The level doesn't actually move down. 15 MR. B A T C ll : Caution on the word " noise." 16 Noise is -- an electronic signal type noise like a 17 bad tilter. It is not noise that is a problem with 18 the vibration of the electronic signal coming out 19 of that. It appears it may be due to -- this is 20 hypothosis -- an actual shock wave that passes 21 through the steam generator that throws the 22 differential pressure transmitter into an 23 oscillatory condition. r3 24 MR. BEARD: It may actually be responding (J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 1 i
110 1 to some real phenomena in the steam generator in
/D I ;
\' .2 terms of DP7 3 MR. JAIN: Responding to a phenonena 4 within the steam generator in rolation to the level 5 transmitter has sensed that the DP being sensed by 6 Li t . 7 MR. BEARD: So it is something in the 8 DP taps as compared to, say, electronic in the 9 transmitter from there on out? 10 MR. JAIN: Correct. 11 MR. BEARD: So it is in the phenomenon. 12 Well, I guess we were really trying to get () 13 to your item No. 2. Are you leading us up to that, 14 you tnink that the rupture control system actuated 15 at least sufficient to cause the MSIVs; is that the 16 bottom line? 17 MR. JAIN: Tha t is our postulation at the la present time. 19 MR. BEARD: So that is your, quote, soft 20 nypothesis? 21 MR. JAIN: Yes. 22 MR. BEARD: Thank you. I think we will be 23 getting into that much more detailed in another (m, 24 meeting, but I am glad to hear your soft hypothesis. ] U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 l l l
l 111 1 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we just go on to the r'N
'2 questions here and tell us what.you can. I guess 3 .the1next one I thinK'you have already answered; 4 right? Actual conditions regarding feed flow to
- 5 steam generator'No. 2 via the startup teadpump?
6 MR. BATCH: ~Is there anything different 7 .than the question on the-first page? 8 MR. ROSSI: No. I think the operators' 9 indications regarding SP7A, I think you answered 10 that.. So the first two were already answared. , 11 MR. BATCH: And'I think to a certain 12 extent No. 4-has at least been addressed. Maybe we I) 13 could elaborate a little bit more about now long you 14 thinK the actuation signal was present. You 15 mentioned something about there is a two-second time ' 16 delay. , 17 MR. JAIN: Yes. 1 ] 18 MR. BEARD:. And why some seal-in circuits 19 apparently functioned and others did not. Maybe we , 20 can. leave it as what you have said. It is up to you i 21- folks. 22 MR. JAIN: I think it would be wise to
- .23 defer the detailed discussion as to what scaled in i 24 and what may have been the sequence of which half ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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i 112 I channel tripping and what channels overlapping each
- 2 other to a later date.
3 MR.. BEARD: OXay, so we will defer that 4' right now. { f 5 No. 7 on this particular list is -- I am 7 6 curious about what is the best available information 1 7 at this point in time with regard to the performance 8 of the PORY on its third lift,-and in conjunction 9 with that, did anytning else take place at precisely 10 this time? 11 MR. BATCH: I hadn' t read your question 12 the.way you had just placed it. I didn't know you
'( ) 13 wanted an update on what we have found on the PORV.
l l
'14 MR. BEARD: That.was the whole purpose of j 15 the meeting.
16 MR. ROSSI: The purpose.of the meeting-t 17 really was'not to get into the troubleshooting and 18 results of the troubleshooting on the PORV or on any i 19' other equipment, but just the sequence of events. 1 20 The question as I interpreted it was was ther I 21 anything else in the sequence of events happening at 22 precisely'the same. time as the third lift of the 23 .PORV7
- 24. 'MR.-BEARD: -We are.looking at it'from the
. ACE PEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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I 113 , 1 context of we are looking at the traces, in this
\'
2 case, of reactor coolant system pressure and trying f 3 to understand why the traces went in certain 4 directions or had certain shapes, and we are just 5 saying that the last time we heard from you you said 6 that the PORV apparently did not perform as you 7 would like for it to, and what we are saying is that 8 still the best information or is there some update 9 you can give us or is there some other factor that 10 came into play that caused the trace to do what it 11 did, or where are we? 12 MR. BATCH: I think the best information
/~
(_) 13 is what you already hav,e on here on your sequence of 14 events for PORY actuations and resetting and what 15 the operator did are absolutely correct. There is 16 no new information there. 17 MR. BEARD: Was there anything else taking 18 place at'that time tha t could have contributed to 19 the pressure decrease that the trace shows? 20 MR. BATCH: No, wnen the steam generators f 21 are dry, they are essentially dry at this point in 22 time, so that if you are not talking about the 1 23 secondary conditions affecting the plant, T ave was 24 still heating up and that RCS pressure dropped and, (~)
%J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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114 l 1 your question 8 there was aLrictly due to the PORV (' ') - 2 operation. 3 MR. BEARD: I was trying to write down the 4 second part of No. 7 and now you are going on to 5 No. 8. No. 8 is wha t? 6 MR. BATCH: No. 8 asked for the cause of 7 the RCS pressure fall between 1:51;18 to 1:51;42 8 which is the third lift of the PORV. It is tied 9 directly into your No. 7 question. 10 MR. LANNING: Would you confirm my 11 analysis of the quench tank data. It is my belief 12 the PORV was open until the block valve was closed. (3 () 13 MR. BATCH: As far as we know that is true 14 also, we have flow indication detectors on there 15 that didn't show the flow stopping until the block 16 valve was closed. 17 Arc we done w'ith 7 and 8 then to your 18 satisfaction? 19 MR. BEARD: I think so. Now we are on 20 No. 9, the steam generator No. 1 traco. 21 MR. BATCH: The steam generator No. 1 22 pressure between 1:47;30 and 1:50, tnis is a point 23 in time where we are running with essentially a
^
24 steam genera tor with no established water level. (m)3 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700 l l
. ~ . ..
115 i 1 The atmospheric vent valve had closed at 1:48:01 and k'. we had no feedwater into the steam generator for it 2 3 to restore any pressure. 4 -M R . BEARD: At 1:48:0l? So it closed 30 i 5 seconds ~after the point of interest in this question. 6 MR. BEARD: Right. So that atmospheric 7 vent valve was at least'due to the first 29 seconds V 8 of the pressure drop tnat you are asking there. Is 9 there some particular interest in that point there? 10 MR. BEARD: 'No, I am saying tha t the-curva 11 in this region that we described with the time marks
~12 has a shape'to it, and I am trying to ask questions
() 13 as to'what is the best available information as to 14 what caused that shape, tha t's all. Very simple. t 15 MR. BATCH: The closure of the a tmos phe ric 16 vent-valve ~is what caused it to restore slightly. 17 'The dry steam generator caused it not to restore
, 18 completely into pressure.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay. 9 20 MR. ROSSI: C,a n you help me with the 21 inflexion point? 22 fMR. BATCH: The inflexion point is when 23 the a tmos phe ri c vent valve closed.
~
24 MR. LANNING: How about 1:49, 'right on the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
, ,e , , - -
116 1 line? (x,_ 2 MR. BATCH: Pressure is just dropping off 3 slightly after it'has been restored. We are not 4 talking about a big change in pressure. We are 5- trying to understand why each little line changes 6 'inflexions. I am not sure that we can attach a
- 7- significant implication to that.
8 MR. BEARD: Just a slope change instead of [9 rate changes at-that point. 10 MR. BATCH: Possibly. 11' M R' . BEARD: The next question is the same ; i 12 type of question. .What happened at the sharp change () 13 in-the shape of the curve between approximately 1:50 14 and 1:51:17. I guess there is a-sharp fall in the 15- curve. 16 MR. BATCH: The operator manually opened 17 the atmospheric vent valve and we have an indication 18 -open at 1:50:13 and~he had opened it from our 19~ discussions'with him in anticipation of the startup 20 feedpump coming on ~ and not wanting to repressurize -- 21 -the main steam. safety valves again. So the operator i
! 22 manually opened tha t and that is what lowered the i'
-23 pressure a t' thatstime. The other thing that was 24 . o pe ra ting at that time'was' that we had the auxiliary ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. -
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_~_ _ 117 1 feedpump on. It should have been drawing steam out I) 2 of there also. 3- We have a steam generator which is not 4 producing any steam and a slight opening on the 5 atmospheric vent valve would cause the pressure to 6 drop in the auxiliary feedpump. Without generating 7 steam we are not cooling off the primary system here 8 substantially.~ 9 MR. BEARD: I guess at this point I was 10 under'the impression th'a t the two aux feedwater s 11 . pumps were tripped and therefore I presumed that 12 they would'not be drawing steam. () 13 MR.. BATCH: One auxiliary feedpump was 14 running at-something like 2,000 RPMs here at -- I 15 don't have the exact. time, it is right around 1:50, , 16 .I am sure it was running.- ; i 17 MR.-BBARD: Yes. I believe . tha t is No. 1. 18 MR. ROSSI: So No. I would be coming from 19 steam genera tor No. 1, I-guess, at this point, or is 20 it. coming from both? ! i 21 MR. MURRAY: -- reset the low pressure l l 22 logic it should be lined up,'No. 1 pump being fed {< 23 from No. 1 generator. l i 24 MR. ROSSI: I thought we were told by one ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. l (202) 347-3700 l 1 l
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a
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118 , 1. .of the' operators or somebody at some point in time f~ 2 .that:towards the end of this event it was my 3 understanding all four of those steam valves were
'4 open. ,
$ 5 MR. MURRAY ' Sughil was just trained. r 6 :MR. ' B ATCH : The atmospheric vent valve 3 D " 7 -- that the operator.had open was the main contr1butor , ! 8 to the-drop in pressure at this time, to answer your 9 question. 10 MR. BEARD: I guess maybe it would be ' 4 11; inappropriate-to ask whether.or notJthat is what you i , 11 2 wanted him to do or not, so I will defer that. 1 () 13' I guess No. 11 then maybe has already been , 14 ' covered, but I was hoping when I wrote No. 11 to say 3 71 5 what is the best available. sequence with regard'to
- 16 the operation of the atmospheric dumps or i
i 17 atmospheric values both in automatic and manual 1 18 .throughoutlthe whole thing. Maybe we have already
'19 covered that sufficiently.
20 -MR. BATCH: If you have some more 21
-questions, I.can show .you what:we have on that
~22L informationwise. If1you.take a look at-the plots 23- and when the alarm.-typer.shows the atmospheric valve .
- 24 as being closed or not closed, it pretty much
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119 1 -matches up with the inflexion points that are shown N . u_) 2 for'the steam generator pressure traces. 3 MR. BEARD: Maybe you could help me just
-4 one tidbit. You mentioned a sharp fall in steam 5 gene ra tor No. l's pressure following about the time 6 of 1:50 was due to the atmospheric dumps being 7 opened or one dump being opened. If you have it .
8 right there inifront of you, can you tell me when 9 that dump was closed? , 10 MR. BATCH: It was closed at ~1:51:23 -- a 11 that is not right. That is not the time, that is 12 when the feedpump was turnad on. We didn't get a () 13 ' full close. indication on that valve until 1:58:28.
'14 We don' t really have when you go to throttle'it, but 15 it wasn't returned to fully closed to 1:58:28.
16 MR. BEARD: That is quite long into the 17 event. In fact, I guess you are into the 18 overcooling phase. Okay. 19 I guess that-is the end of the questions I s 20 have. 21- MR. ROSSI:- Does anybody else ---Walt, do 22 you:have-any questions on sequences of events, or-23 do you have anything to add.that you have learned 24 recently on the sequence of ovents?
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L: 120 1 MR. ~ ROGERS: No, I don't think so. ex
~ ' : '2 MR. ROSSI: Wayno?
, 3 MR. SHAIFER: I have nothing. 4 4 MR. LANNING: I -would like for us to 5 discuss the steam generator pressure for steam l- 6 generator No. 2 at approximately time 1:46.
< 7. MR. BATCH: It appears that is right on
- 8. the line'there. That?that is the main steam safety 9 valve ressating and pressure is turning around after .,
10 the main steam safety valve reseated. You can't be 11 positive for sure on these traces what every i 12 inflexion point is. I think we can get carried away () 13 -trying~ to give you sn absolute story for every time
'14 the line' turns around. That trace i s typical of a 15 main steam safety valve reseating-and the pressure 16 going back up.
s 17 MR. LANNING: At li46? 18 MR. BATCH: That is right where that line
'19 is, 1:46.
20 MR. LANNING: I understand that. I am i.
' 21. really fascinated with:the curve after that. ;
22 MR. BATCH: Pressure is restoring up to 23 what looks lik's 1:47:32 area, coming back after the 24 safety is reset.. ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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121
-1 MR. BEARD: Wayne, is your question why is
~2 -the shape of -tha t curva ture digterent from the t'# o 3 previous lifts?
-4 MR. LANNING: Yes.
5- MR.-BATCH: The other thing that is a 6' littleJ tricky now, is we are talking about steam 7 gene ra tors getting very low in level. They_are 8- essentially not steaming at all. Any leaking or 9: valves that_are not sealed tight can take that steam 10 generator down.and-it won't repressurize the way you
- 11: would expect it to do when :Lt still had' water level.
- 12. .The repressurization-should be getting slower and
() 13- harder to do each time a s - the level goes down. A
- 14 dry steam generator and-safaty that is just 15 weakening can draw _your. pressure down or keep it ,
16 from going back up. 17 MR. LANNING: Can you continue.along that 18 curve a little' bit? 2 11 9 MR. . BATCH: The atmospheric vent value
~
'20 wasn't; opened until about.1:53:58 which is quite a i bit beyond_th'at.
21 I - I :22 MR. LANNING: Let's back . up" prior.to'1:49 or right a t 1:49.
~
'23-l
~
' q (s - 24 -- M R . BATCH: I. don't have anything marked ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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122 l
'l on this-trace:for'that point in time as the
{O r 2 e xpla na tion.- -Theasteam generator is dry. It can't
-3 maintain its' pressure and there is no way to Keep ,
4; the pressure! restored in that steam generator. This j 5 .didn' t go veryflow in pressure. It was pretty well s
-6 bottled- up. This is just the bottled up indication ;
! 7 ofLthat steam generator. 8 .MR. ROGERS: Just listening to this, I do 4 9- have one question. When the-secondary, safety is 4 11 0 lifted and through'the process did litt, did you see i l 11 a. phenomena where the set-points for the safety i 1 12 appeared to. trend' downward-in pressure when they () 13' openfup? ' I i 14- MR. BATCH:- Actually they alliseemed to 15 reseat fairly close. , i' ! 16 -MR._MURRAY: =Did . the open pressure,f. pop-i j -17 pressure, change with' subsequent pumps? . i
- i. 18 MR. BATCH The peaks are all very close.
19:- If you assume that is a safety valve' lifting, they '
- -
- 20 are all'.very close. . I would not'be surprised that a
- t
, 21 safety. valve'on subsequent lifts lifted-at a. lower t 22l . pressure. f 23- MR.-ROGERS: That isra possible phenomena l 724. -that you would ' e xpect 'to . see ,- tha t the set point i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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L 123 1 would decrease in pressure in subsequent pop. I 2 MR. BATCH: I would not be surprised if
-3 that occurred. Looking at No. 1 it looks like the 4 third pop.is slightly lower, maybe 30 pounds or so.
5 On the No. 2 side they are almost perfectly
,. 6 consistent.
-7 MR. ROGERS: Thank you.
8 MR. LANNING: What time on the alarm - 9 printout do you have the switchover from the 10 condensate storage tank to the service water system? 11 MR. BATCH: That was at the 1:58 area? 12 MR. LANNING: Yes. 1 () 13 MR. BATCH: I have to look on the alarm 14 typer. It will taxe me a few minutes if you want me 25 to look it up now. 16 MR. LANNING: I cannot tell from the alarm 17 printout whether that is the time the valve started 18 to close or started to transfer or the transfer nad 19- taken place. 20 MR. BATCH: The only alarm we have tells 21 that one of two-pressure switches has made. It is 22 not a positive indication that the transfer has 23 occurred.
- e. 24 MR. ROSSI: Do you know that the valves --
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. e (202) 347-3700
124 1 the valves did move? 2 MR. BATCH: The valves did move. The 3 operator said that they did move back. I can tell 4 you wnen that alarm came in, but I guess I can' t 5 actually read you out on the alarm typer tnat tnat 6 verifies by itself that the valves did swap. The 7 oporators did say that they had to swap them back, a so it did-definitely move. 9 MR. LANNING: I think that answers my 10 question. 11 MR. BATCH: Okay. 12 MR. WOHLD: Is it appropriato to ask about () 13 the steam generator _ chemistry, if that was looked at? 14 MR. BEARD:- Try and focus on the sequence 15 of events right now. 16 MR. LANNING: I would like to go bacK to 17 the alarm printout. In the very beginning around 18 0:25, 0:39, the first entry is Z840, data point, 19 where it talxs to the RPS, SFAS, or SFRCS cabinet 20 door. 21 MR. BATCH: Okay. 22 MR. LANNING: Thoso entries on the alarm 23 printout, are they indicating that the door is being e- 24 opened and closed? (x) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
125 1 MR. BATCH: There is an open and a normal. t < ~ An open indicates a door was open and a normal 2 3 indicates they all are closed. 4 MR. LANNING: Is Z8340 for one particular 5 cabinet? 6 MR. BATCH: No, for all the RPS, SFAS, or 7 SPRCS cabinets. < 8 MR.-JAIN: Any one of those. 9 MR. LANING: All rignt. So I really can't 10 tell.from this printout which cabinet door or doors 11 are being opened? 12 MR. BATCH: I can speculate for you that () 13 the operator is doing his survoillance test at 14 this point in time. He will go into the tour RPS 15 cabinets one channel at a time, and into each SPRCS 16 cabinet one channel at a time and that is what is 17 making these come in and out, in and out. 18 MR. ROSSI: During the event? 19 MR. BATCH: No, it was botore the event. 20 MR. MURRAY: The first hour of the shift, 21 shift surveillance test. 22 MR. BEARD: What time are we talking j 23 aboat? l (q 24. MR. LANNING: This is right at shift l 'v/ ) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. l (202) 347-3700 l l
126 1 change at 0:39.
'(mi'/ Is 39 the minutes, 39 minutes 2 MR. BEARD:
3 after midnight? 4 MR. BATCH: Yes. 5 MR. BEARD: This is like an hour before 6 the trip? 7 MR. BATCH: Yes. 8 MR. LANNING: When he is doing those 9 surveillance testing, is it unusual to open and 10 close the doors as frequently as tne alarm printout 11 shows at 0:457 12 MR. BATCH: Sach cabinet door has two sets () 13 of doors and ne has got to go through mach RPS 14 caoinet and through the SPRCS cabinets. He will get 15 a minimum of -- I loox at these times here, normal, 16 open. I don't thinx there is anything terribly 17 abnormal about enat, no. I would have to review it la in detail to see now fast they came in and out there. 19 There are quite a few on tnere. He has to go 20 through quite a few cabinet doors. 21 MR. ROSSI: He is taxing readings in this? 22 He is opening them up and reading meters or 23 instruments; is tnat what no is doing? 3 24 MR. BATCH: A combination of just (%.) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
127 1 verifying the bistable lights are lit and some of r~
!: ( .
2 these zones are a very quick observation that the l 3 two lights are lit and this side and half of that 4- door,'and then you open up the other door which 5 tells him if it.is. Yes, they are getting two 6 readings on that and make a' couple checkmarks
.7 verifying that some of the lights on there, that the ,
1 8- bistables are not tripped on the RPS cabinets though. 9 These guys do this.every shift.and they are very 10 quicr. at11t. 1 11 MR. ROSSI: Do they log that on a sheet?- 12 MR. BATCH: ST S099 -- surveillance-test ([} 13 he is comple ting - a t - tha't - time . , 14 MR.-ROSSIsi Do they give a time with that 4 15 log? W ha t I am asking'is is there another log sheet 16 that shows_that they'did this kind of stuff to match
- 17 up with the alarm printer? l 18 MR. BATCH
- Not every time he opens the 19 door. There would be a time when he completed the .
1
- 20- test he entered in the log and-signed it off in 21 front of the data sheet.
22 MR. ROSSI: At least there.would be some , 23 comparison one could make if they wanted? ; g- 24 MR. BATCH Right. O) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ! (202) 347-3700 i a Y
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. 128 1 MR. LANNING: My last question is, would g
'd 2 you try to explain the time differences between the 3 alarm printout times and the DADS time and tell me 4 what the time difference is between the two sets of 5 data? 6 MR. BATCH: There are two sets of 7 computers here. There is the station computer which 8- is the mod comp computer and has its own internal 9 clock. There is the computer downstairs that is 10 part of the DADS, and try as they may it seems like 11 they just can't xeep them clocks aligned perfectly. 12 When tne system would go down or whatever and the () 13 clock comes back up, there are slightly difforent 14 times. They keep them very closely lined up and 15 there was approximately a six-second difference 16 between the time you will see like on the alarm 17 typor, which is trom the station computer, and the 18 DADS system, which would be the plots and the 19 detailed printouts, of six seconds. So, I am trying 20 to thinx which way that was right now. I will have 21 to go back and loox again. 22 MR. ROSSI: But that is going to be a six-23 second shift that is constant all the way through 24 the sequence? (^/ 3 N_ ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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129 ?
.. 1 MR. BATCH: Yes, the one ~ computer clocx 2 nas a six-second ditierence trom the other computer ,
l 3 clock, so even though~the' data is coming across, it i i 4 will put' a'six-second difference in the time. ! 5 when you are looking at the plots and the i 1: : i 6 DADS data, those are consistent. It is just when i-7 you go to the alarm typer you want to be aware that 8' .there is a six-second difference between when the r a a 9' alarm came-in and the plots and the DA'DS information. ; i 10 MR. BEARD:- Sometimes six. seconds may be 11 1 significant it we are.trying ~ to figure out from-the i
- 12 shape of these curves _what has happened.
4 () 13' MR. BATCH: That is correct. 14 MR. ROSSI: You need to remember that the , r 15 six seconds'is there and part of-yoursdata reduction.
- b l
~_ 16 'MR. BATCH: .T h a t ' ~s right.
1 4 17 MR. BEARD: Not only: that, but in wnich 18 direction. Like if we are looking at a particular . 19- thing like, .say the lift of a safety or atmospheric 1 20 vent or something, to try to explain a particular f 21 . change of curvatureoon here, six seconds is big time. , i 22 MR. LANING: I think the DADS data are six j , - . " ; 23 seconds behind the. alarm printout data. ( 24 MR. BATCH: Okay. I just didn't resomber-j ~ ACE f;EDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202): 347-3700 I ', 1
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7 1 130 , n _ l 1 at that moment. 2 MR. ROSSI: ~ Did you verify it? I 3 MR. JAIN: Yes. 4 MR. ROSSI: You remember it so it is a i i
- 5- verification that he' has it.right.
6 MR. BATCH: You can look at the DADS data 1-
.7 and'see. exactly when'the information starts changing <
4 i 8 on there, compare that to the alarm typer time-and-I ! 9 that will -- for the ' reactor trip. 10 MR. BEARDS. You recognize just for the i 11' record when we made up.tho' sequence of events, we l~2 . were told that that was.probably-most accurate? f () 13 MR. B'A T C H : The. sequence of events
'14 printout.goes to the nearest ten milliseconds or so
- 15 in accuracy, so1within the s ta tion computer it is 16 .the most' accura te ' indica tion 'of the order that tne i 17 events occurred. I i
l 18. MR. ROSSI: The sequence of events in the , 19 DADS, they don' t. have the six-second delay or shift 20 between them; they are lined up?
- 21 MR. BATCH: No, that is act correct. The 22 sequence of event-is a product of the station
- 23 ~ computer so.it has
- the station corputer clock time
^ A 24 on it. I 'O ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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e 131 i 2 1.- MR. BEARD: So that is the same computer 2 that drives the alarm printer? ; t L . -3 MR. BATCH: .That is . correct. l 4 MR. ROSSI:- It is shifted also by the six 5 seconds from DADS?
+
6 MR. BEARD:- In other words, it is a fair i f -7 s ta teme n t to say the DADS printout ot the data
- 8 follows everything else by six seconds?
'9 MR. BATCH:. R i g h t '.
) 10 MR. BEARD: But of the two tha t it follows, i i { 11 the more - accurate is tne-sequence of events printer. 12 MR.1 BATCH: The alarm typer can be off by 4 h 13 as much as a second or so,,but the sequence or 14 ' events points are separate points that come into the 15 computer that are accurate to about the nearest ten i . I 16 milliseconds. Those give you a very exact sequence i r 17 that the items occurred in.
- 18. They.are both timed from the time clock in- [
l - 19 the station computer so those times will match and b 20 will match-the alarms, i
.21 MR. BEARD: .As I started to say when the, 22 tape can-out over nere, when we made up our sequence 23 .ofLevents, we used the sequence of events recorder ;
1 . 24 as the most precise _ time we believed to be available j
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132 1 to'us. Is that sti11' correct?
# 2 MR. BATCH: That is correct.
3 MR. BEARD: And then when we entered 4 things'in our sequence of events we went to the 5- alarm. print as the second most accurate. Is that
; 6 still correct?
7 MR. BATCH: Most accurato meaning most 8 accurate to the actual 24-hour clocx? I don't know, 9 but the sequence of events is-good to the nearest ; 10- ten' milliseconds. The alarm typer may be off by a 11 second. :The Valadine printout is one second data, 12 so actually tne alarms and the DADS or Valadine, () 13 whichever you,would line to ce ll it, are essentially ~ , 14 equal in accuracy as far as plus or minus a second, , 15 but their clocks in the computers were set for six ! 16 seconds offset. Now-accuracy is talking about , 17 something different. , 18- MR. BEARD: I understand. Do you know of 19 any reason why we should revise the sequence of l 20 events we got to account for this offset? ! '21 MR. . BATCH: Most of your-times that you 22 have provided on your sequence of events first from , i 23 the alarm typer and the sequence of events, you
.gs 24 didn' t give us. times based on how you read the , \. )
i' ACE! FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. I l- (202) 347-3700 i l
133 1 Valadine, I don't think, so I don' t think you have 2 problems on that. I will loox at that again just to 3 maxe sure. I will give you comments if I see a 4 problem. I think you are accurate in your 5 description of sequence of events. 6 MR. BEARD: My general understanding is we 7 are now in agreement that the inf orma tion in this 8 meeting is tne best available at this time as far as 9 you to1xs go and we go, and that is it. 10 MR. MURRAY: Yes. 11 MR. LANNING: The comparison of the-12 primary system pressure and pressurizer level at
^
((,^) 13 time 1:47:32 on the DADS. 14 MR. BATCH: 1:47:32? 15 MR. LANNING: Yes. The level is going 16 down, the pressure is going up, and the averago 17 temperature is continuing to increase. 18 MR. BATCH: The general trend of the level 19 is for that whole time frama is up. We are getting 20 up to where very high in pressure in lovel and the 21 PORY is -- well, there is one other thing. It is a 22 temperature compensated level that you have tnere.
.23 We are putting in the cold water from the hot lake f3 24 into tne lovel sensing temperature detector and it L.)
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134 1 is sensing the water as if it was all now the colder
# 2 water, and that could be an ettact that is that very 3 slight bump down that you are seeing at that point 4 in time, and it may be due to the te mpe ra ture 5 compensation effect. The pressurized level is 6 increasing at this point in time, from increasing T 7 ave, though. That may be a slight bump that you are 8 soeing and it may be due to tne temperature 9 compensation.
10 MR. LANNING: The bump being the decrease 11 in lovel? 12 MR. BATCH: Right. (/ )s 13 MR. BEARD: So it is a phenomena ot the 14 instrumentation, and this particular reason doesn' t 15 represent what the level is actually doing? 16 MR. BATCH: The PORV actually does lift 17 there also toward tne end of tnat down cycle, which 18 could throw your level indication off also. That 19 level indication may not be completely accura te once 20 you start depressurizing the top of the steam bubble. 21 we are getting up to wnere this tempera ture 22 indication isn't a perfect indication of what actual 23 pressurizer level is. rg 24 MR. ROSSI: Anybody have anything more? V ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
135 1 MR. RAWLES: On Page 4, in the NRC 2- sequence of events, the team sequen e of events, 3 time 01:51:42, pressurizer PORY block valve was 4 started closod by the operator. I guess enat is a 5 limit switen indication? 6 MR. ROSSI: That was information, as I 7 recall, that was given to us in the previous meeting. 8 MR. BATCH: That is all you Know, is tha t 9 it started to close, 10 MR. BEARD: We-had it previously that it 11 was closed, and in the last meeting when ws went 12 into the meeting with Rev O, I believe it was Stan i 13 that pointed out the actual data point of the othor 14 computer is when it starts closed, not that it was 15 closed completely. 16 MR. RAWLES: It is the not open limit 17 switch? 18 MR. BEARD: Right, that is my 19 interpretation of what Stan said. 20 MR. RAWLES: When I lcoK at the acJustic 21 monitor, it indicates no flow at 1:51:49 which is 22 seven seconds later. 23 MR. BEARD: That ta correct. f3 24 MR. BATCH: That is your best indication i (,) ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. l (202) 347-3700 i
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136 i f 1 that the-valve is now closed. 4 2' MR. BEARD: One of the valves is closed. i 3 MR. RAWLES: Somothing is closed.
~4 MR. BATCH: Something is closed.
1 5 MR. RAWLES: How long does it-take the 6 block valve to stroke closed? -
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7 MR. BATCH: I don' t Know that I have that , 8 number here. t 9 MR. RAWLES: _ Is it greater that seven' s I lo- seconds?J j 11 -MR., BATCH: I don' t nave that number here. j 1 12 MR. ROSSI: That infan important' point, I (
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-13 think. That is a value that somebody ought to know, 14 because that is important in telling whether the 15 .PORV. closed before or.after or,'you know, the block
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16 valve closed. I mean'if you tind out it takes 20
'17 seconds to close the' block valve, very clearly.the 18 PORV may;have closed slowly, but it would have ;
19 closed. , l- 20. MR. B E A R D :': .I assume when we made this 21 thing upLthat the block valve stroke time was ; 22' approximately that.shown.between the difference l l 23- between the PORY block valve' starting closed and the 24 . acoustic monitor flow -- f ACE FEDERAL' REPORTERS, INC. l- (202) 347-3700 E i b
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137 . 1 I was saying as the tape ran out again,
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2 the assumption that I made here is tnat regardless 3 of-what nappens -- of i course the flow appears to ,
- 4. have stopped, but weItalked about some other valves 5 that had stroke. times of lixe nine seconds and with ,
{ 6 that in' mind it seemed like'the seven-second number 7 was not unreasonable.and that is not in the sequence 8 of events, but my personal assumption was that 9 wouldn' t be an unrea'sonable' number. I wouldn't be
. 10 surprised by i t. I
- 11. MR. RAWLES: I-don't Know what the stroke 12 time is.
() 13' MR. MURRAY: >We can find out.
- 14. MR. ROSSI: Anybody have anytning else? >
i , - 15 Let's go off the record then. 16 c
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138 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I, Celoste C. Dawley, a Registered 3 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and tor 4 the S ta to of Ohio, do hereby certify that I took tha 5 proceedings and that the foregoing transcript of 6 such proceedings is a full, true and correct 7 transcript of my stenotypy notes as so taxen. 8 I do furtner certify that I was called 9 there in tne capacity of a Court Reporter, and am 10 not otherwise interested in this proceeding. 11 IN WITNESS W il E R EO F , I nave hereunto set my 12 nand and affixed my seal of office at Columbus, Ohio, i 13 on this <Q s , 1985. oay of _ 67 d 14 15 Qxh o d)) , __ CELESTE C. DAWLEY, RP Rg 16 Notary Public in and W. the State et Ohio. 17 18 My Commission expires August 25, 1987. 19 20 21 22 23 I l k ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202) 347-3700
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