ML20129B051
| ML20129B051 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/18/1985 |
| From: | Lang T TOLEDO EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290053 | |
| Download: ML20129B051 (64) | |
Text
.- .- ,,
1 ,
- BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE 2
OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i 3 * *
- 4 Re:
5 Davis-Besse event :
of June 9,.1985 :
7 INTERVIEW OF TED LANG 8
I Interview of Ted Lang by the Nuclear Regulatory ,
10 Commission Fact Finding Task Force, taken before me, Kim ;
. 11 E. Snyder, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 1
- 2 Public in and for the State of Ohio, at the Site Emergency [
t 13 Operations Center, Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak Harbor, !
Ohio, on Tuesday, June 18, 1985, commencing at 9:26 o' clock l a.m. i
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.BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE l
2 OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 ***
4 Re:
5 Davis-Besse event' :
of June 9, 1985 :
7 INTERVIEW OF TED LANG 8
9 Interview of Ted Lang by the Nuclear Regulatory 10
. Commission Fact Finding Task Force, taken before me, Kim 11 E. .Snyder, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary
- 2 Public in and for the State of Ohio, at the Site Emergency 13 Operations Center, Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak Harbor, Ohio, on Tuesday, June 18, 1985,' commencing at 9
- 26 o' clock a.m. j
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BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE I 2 OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION l c 3 ***
! 4 Re:
' Davis-Besse event : I 5
of June 9, 1985 :
- 7
- '
INTERVIEW OF TED LANG l 8 l -
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Interview of Ted Lang by the Nuclear Regulatory i 10 Commission Fact Finding Task Force, taken before me, Kim !
- ~ !
i 11 E. Snyder, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary ,
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12 Public in and for the State of Ohio, at the Site Emergency l
13 Operations Center, Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak Harbor, ;
14 Ohio, on Tuesday, June 18, 1985, commencing'at 9:26 o' clock 1 a.m. ;
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Tuesday Morning Session i
- 2 June 18, 1985 3 9
- 26 o' clock a.m.
4 5 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go on the record, and we 6 are going to be interviewing Ted Lang this morning who is the 7 STA, which is dhe Shif t Technical Advisor, during the 8 June 9 event. l 9 And, first of all, Ted, let me ask you, you r I
10 have asked for someone to be present during your interview? l l
11 MR. LANG: He sort of volunteered for it.
I 12 l It is fine with me. I' don't mind.
13 MR. ROSSI: So David Lewis, who is an attorney, 14 is here with Ted Lang at your recuest or at least with l 15 your permission? t 16 MR. LANG: Right. i 17 MR. ROSSI: Ted, why don't you start out 18 by telling us what your position is and a little bit i 19 about your background, you know, how long you have 20 been with the company and that.
21 MR. LANG: Well, I am shift technical i i
l 22 advisor, like you said. I_ have been with the 23 . company, let's see, I started in August of 19 81. I I .
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1 Tuesday Morning Session t
-2 June 18, 1985 3 9:26 o' clock a.m.
4 5 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go on the record, and we 6 are going. to be interviewing Ted Lang this morning who is the r
7 STA, which is the Shif t Technical Advisor, during the ,
8 June 9 event. ;
t 9 And, first of all, Ted, let me ask you, you - l F j 1 1 ,
10 have asked for someone to be present during- your intersfiew? l i i !
11' MR. LANG: He sort of volunteered for it. [ i 12 It is fine with me. I don't mind.
13 MR. ROSSI: ~ So David Lewis, who is ar. a0torney, I
i 14 is here with Ted Lang 'at your recuest or at leas l[ with l 15 your permission? k
- 16 MR. LANG: Right. [ i 17 MR. ROSSI: Ted, why don't you sf/ art out
- 18 by telling us what your position .is and a -little bit i 19 about your background, you know, how long you have t
20 been- with the company and that.
21 MR. LANG: Well, I am. shift technical 22 advisor, like you said. I . have been with the' l
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23 company, let's see, I, started in. August of 1981. I -; s
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3 1 Tuesday Morning Session 2 June 18, 1985 3 9:26 o' clock a.m.
4 5 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go on the record, and we 6 are going to be interviewing Ted Lang this morning who is the 7 STA, which is the Shift Technical Advisor, during the 8 June 9 event.
, 9 And, first of all, Ted, let me ask you, you 10 have asked for someone to be present during your interview?
11 MR. LANG: He sort of volunteered for it. l 12 It is fine with me. I don't mind.
13 MR. ROSSI: So David Lewis, who is an attornev, l
14 is here with Ted Lang at your request or at least with j 15 your permission? i 16 MR. LANG: Right. i 17 MR. ROSSI: Ted, why don't you start out j 18 by telling us what your position is and a little bit l
19 about your background, you know, how long vou have '
l 20 been with the company and that. l 21 MR. LANG: Well, I am shift technical ;
22 advisor, like you said. I have been with the 23 . company, let's see, I started in August of 19 81.
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1 1
BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE 2
OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 * *
- 4 Re:
Davis-Besse event :
5 of June 9, 1985 :
7 INTERVIEW OF TED LANG 8
9 Interview of Ted Lang by the Nuclear Regulatory 10 Commission Fact Finding Task Force, taken before me, Kim 11 E. Snyder, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary i
12 Public in and for the State of Ohio, at the Site Emergency j i
13 Operations Center, Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak Harbor,
/
{
Ohio, on Tuesday, June 18, 1985, commencing at 9:26 o' clock a.m.
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24 eral Reporters, Inc.
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2 1 APPEARANCES:
(~)
q,1 2
3 Shaw, Pittman, Potts & Trowbridge 4 1800 M Street, N.W.
5 Washington, D.C.
6 By Mr. David Lewis, 7
8 On behalf of Mr. Lang.
9 10 11 MEMBERS OF THE TEAM:
12 Ernie Rossi
\s 13 dayne Lanning 14.
15 16 17 la 19 20-21 22 23
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'- RUNFOLA &. ASSOCIATES 1(614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
i 3
t 1 Tuesday Morning Session 2 June 18, 1985 3 9:26 o' clock a.m.
4 5 MR. ROSSI: Why don' t we go on the record, and we 6 are going to be interviewing Ted Lang this morning who. is the 7 STA, which is the Shif t Technical Advisor, during the 8 June 9 event.
9 And, first of all, Ted, let me ask you, you !
l 10 have asked for someone to be present during your interview?
11 MR. LANG: He sort of volunteered for it. I i
12 It is fine with me. I don't mind. j l
J 13 MR. ROSSI: So David Lewis, who is an attornev, f 14 is here with Ted Lang at your reauest or at least with 15 your permission? !
16 MR. LANG: Right. ;
i 17 MR. ROSSI: Ted, why don't you start out i 18 by telling us what your position is and a little bit i 19 about your background, you know, how long you have i
20 been with the company and that.
21 MR. LANG: Well, I am shift technical ;
I 22 advisor, like you said. I have been with the j 23 company, let's see, I started in August of 19 81. I :
i I
24 6 Rnoners, ltw.
25
4 4
1- started out.in tho' operation section as an engineer
(.
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2 there and then went-into training tor STA and began
- 3. as an.STA in January of'this year.
~4 ' MR. ROSSI: Do you have a reactor 5 operators license --
6 MR. LANG: No. .
7 MR. ROSSI: You are trained just as an STA 8 then?
9 MR. LANG: I have a maste'r's and 10 bacnelor's in mechanical engineering from Onio S ta te.
11- MR. ROSSI: Master's and bachelor's?
12 MR. LANG: Yes.
i MR. ROSSI: . Why don't you tell us- just
.{} 13, --
14 start and tell us what' happened after you came on l 15 shift on June 9.
1 16 First of all, what time did you como on 17- shift?
.18 MR. LANNING:' When did you become an STA?- ,
i 19- MR. LANG: I started on the job January of t'h i s year t'o w a r d s . t h e end.
~
20 21 M R . ; ROSSI': -Well, start and tell us, you 22 came on shift on' June 9 at what time?
- 23 MR. LANG: .It would have been'on the'8tn,
- 24 Saturday' morning. .We'run- --
it.is.a 24~ hour' shift 1 O RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I' .
-a -~ ,. , -.- ,.. - - - .
5 1 going from rougnly 8:00 o' clock in the morning to A_J 2 8:00 o' clock the following morning.
3 MR. ROSSI: 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> shift. 8:00 o' clock.
4 MR. LANG: Saturday morning the 8th.
5 MR. ROSSI: To 8:00 o' clock Sunday morning.
'6 Tnat would be the normal shift?
7 MR. LANG: Right.
8 MR. ROSSI: So you came on at 8:00 o' clock
- 9. on Sa turday morning. And are you in the control 10 room during the entire time or --
11 MR. LANG: No. We are to spend some time 12 in the control room keeping abreast of plant
{} 13 conditions.
14 And then per the administrative procedure 15 that governs us, we are supposed to sleep as much as 16 is required in order to maintain alertness if 17 anytning should happen and remain on site, be able 18 to respond to the control room within ten minutes of 19 a list of ditterent events like trips and things 20 like that.
21 MR. ROSSI: Where do you sleep when you 22 are on site?
23 MR. LANG: There is sort of a little
_ 24 apartment room in.this building. .
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RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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6 1 MR. ROSSI: So'you sleep in an apartment 2 building'or' apartment like --
apartment type room?
3 MR. LANG: .A room in this building, yeah.
4 It's-got a bath and bed and TV and stuff.
-5 MR. ROSSI: And could you just give a 6 general teeling for how far -- where the-room that
, 7 you aleep -- well, first of all, let me go to the
- 8. question enat may save us some of the other 9 questioning.
10 At around' midnight or prior to the events.
. 11 where were you?.
J 12 MR. LANG: I was asleep.-
{} 13 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don' t you tell us 14 tnen about how far the room that you were sleeping 15 in is from tne control' room roughly. .Or. ---
16 MR. LANG: Well, it is in this building on 17 the north' side of it and then there i s .. t h a t gate,.
18 you know, that runs between the'two parking' lots 19 they have locked up at nignt.
20 We parx on the plant side of that and then 21 just.go straight out the access road.into the plant.
22 I would guess somewhere around a half mile or 23' quarter of a mile. I never really measured it.
24 MR. LANNING: This building is'not really RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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7 1 on the s ta tion site; is it?
,7 (sl 2 MR. LANG: It is considered to be. It is 3 not in the protected area, but it is still the site.
4 MR. ROSSI: What is the name of this 5 building? Is it an administrative building?
6 MR. LANG: We always call it DBAB, D-b-a-b, 7 Davis-Besse Administration Building.
8 MR. ROSSI: DBAB building, and it is 9 outside the protected area.
10 Okay. Why don't you then start with when 11 you tirst found out that anything in the way of an 12 event was going on. You were sleeping at the time
(~] 13 and proceed from there.
rj 14 MR. LANNING: Before we get into that, I 15 would like to better understand what the 16 responsibilities are of an STA and what part of this 17 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> are you expected to be doing something 18 besides sleeping, I guess.
19 MR. LANG: Okay. There isn't -- during 20 the 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> part of the shift there isn't really 21 exact guidelines as to how much you are supposed to 22 sleep or not.
23 I guess that's between the supervisor and
,_ 24 the person. The idea though is to, you know, like I
~
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i 1 said, to spend assmuch time as you need to xeep :
2 abreast of. plant conditions.
g 3 In other parts of the time we might be
- 41 over a t 'the plant in the office there working on 4
5- reviewing LER's.or SOER's, different documents,
- [6 sometimes1are responding to them or justEreviewing. ;
t 4
7' So there is some outside duties that just !
t S ha ve -' to - do : wi th ' da y- to-da y operations of the plant.
9 A n d .- t h e n if we should be called to the control room,
_10 then we are-to serve.as sort of an-extra' set of. eyes 11
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- on things.
121 Rather tnan gettin'g~ involved with the fine" f 13 details of any event, we are' supposed to s tand 'ba ck 14 and.get anL overall view and make Aure that nothing
-15 major-is, overlooked.
l 16 MR.-LANNING: Organizationally who is your 17 supervisor?
l J 18 MR.~LANG:
. Frank-Swanger.
i 19 MR. LANNING: What position-1 120- .MR.~LANG: .
He1follows.-- well s - there.is.
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j 21 Bill O'Connor;that=is the' operations superintendent i i
j- 22 and then Frank Swanger. answers-to him.. [
23 'MR.-LANNING: I am sorry.
- 24 MR.;LANG
- . FranknSwanger. answers to Bill i RUMFOLA &1 ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477~ l
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. 9 1 O'Connor, who is the operations superintendent.
So'ha is the assistant 2 -MR. LANNING:.
3 operation --
4 MR. LANG: No, he is the shitt technical i
5 advisor supervisor.
6' ~MR. LANNING: Go ahead.
7 MR. ROSSI: Well, now that Wayne has, asked 8 some questions like that, let me asx another u
9 question.
10 On Saturday at'8:00 o' clock you came on 11 shift at 8:00 o' clock i n the: morning. Could you 12- sort or generally 1 describe in just very generally
}
.{} 13 what'you did on-Saturday ~ prior to coming here for i 14 rest into this building.
i 15 What sort of? things dit!' you do during your 16 shift u p -.- u n t i l the time of the event?
4 17 MR.'LANG: I don't. remember exactlyjwhat I
. 18 was working on that day;because..the event sort of i .
~
19 obliterated any memory.ot that-type or thing.-
20 MR. R O S S'I : 'What do.you. remember, were you. ,
. 21- in the control room for a part of ten time Saturday?
,, . 22 MR. LANG: Oh, yeah. Well, during tur'n-t 23 overs-we have to.be'there, 8:00 o' clock and 4:00
, 24 o' clock turnovers. -
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10 1 MR. LANNING: These are snitt turnovers?
f 2 MR. LANG: Right. And tnen usually 3 following that I will go over to the control room 4 and review the reactor operator's log, things line 5 tnat, talk to them a little bit and see if anything 6 unusual is going on that they are aware of and it 7 anything special is going on or if they need a lot 8 of some typing worn done or something, I can do that.
9 There wasn't anytning like that that day.
10 It was extremely quiet. In tact, I thinK we Kind of 11 commented on now still everything was.
12 MR. ROSSI: The plant was at steady state 13 all tnrough tnat day?
{J3 14 MR. LANG: Yes, normally on the weekend we 15 nave some load reduction for tne load dispatener, i 16 and we were staying at 90 percent all weekend.
17 MR. ROSSI: Can you remember anything else 18 unusual about the operation in the plant between the 19 time you came on snitt and the event?
20 MR. LANG: I could looK back at tne notes 21 that we Keep through the day, but I don't remember 22 anytning unusual at all.
23 I xnow enat on number one main feed pump 24 we had a wnole lot of ins trumenta tion hooked up and
(~)
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 j COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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11
- 1 that type of thing, but.that wasn't really unusual.
,1
. (.~ 2 M R .' ROSSI: Okay. We have been told. We
- 3. won't goEinto that again.
4 Why don't we go then to when you first
< -5 lea rne d .- tha t there was a. problem and how you learned L
- 6 about it. ..
4 -7 MR.-LANG: Okay. Well,-I was asleep, like I I.said, and the' phone rang I thinx aroundf1':40, 1:40, 8
i:
9 1 : 4 2,7 s omewhe re -- in : the re . It'was Ted Lehman who 10- called me.
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11 He'was-the'.sh'ift. supervisor, and it was a r
- 12 pretty brief call. And he just said we are down, 13 ge t 'over- he re .- That was it.
1
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, 14 And I started to leave.y As I ~was: heading
- 15- out the door, the pnone rang.again. The-
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16 administrative:assistanti wa s .ca lling 'too.
17 MR; ROSSI: So youithen ~left to go?
, ' 18 MR. LANG:. To - the- control . room.:
- 19 ,MR.-ROSSI: And,did you walkytherefor run? t 4
2O( MR.-LANG: No, drive.; ;
. 21. MR.tROSSI: . Drive,.okay.
i.
22 MR.l LANG: I think I went~through, pretty l 23' quick because'justEfrom'the urgency: _ i n -- T e d ' s voice t
l 24 it sounded like maybe-itfwas a little:more than "
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s/ 2 Tha t's kind.of conjecture there though.
'3 When I went out the doors there weren't 4 any safeties lifting at the ' time , which I thought 5 was a little unusual, but you don't know, maybe it
~
6 just got ca11ed a little late oecause you really-7 can't hear anything of the plant down in that room 8 tha t's got a few walls between outside.
9 As I more or less rushed in one safety 10 just kind of' lifted briefly and then I could see lli some exhaust coming out of the aux feed pump exhaust,
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12' but it wasn't a full run exhaust. It was just a few r'\ 13 puffs and wisps.
V 14 MR. ROSSI: Then you had to go through tne 15 security to get into the plant,itself?
16 MR. LANG: Yeah. Normal security a little 17 bit et delay,,of course, at the explosives sniffer 18 and.then through theimetal detector.
19- I yelled at the guards to get me my badge 20 as I was going through'those, and there really 21 wasn't any delay.to speak or.
22 MR..ROSSI: Then you went directly to the 23 control room then?
24 'MR.. LANG: Yeah. I-think I may have O ..UNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
13
'1 violated our no running policy.
pm.
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So you got to the
~
3 control room. Tnat was the first place you went
.. 4 when'you got to the plant after-going'through 5 security.
6_ And why. don't you tell us now what the 7- status of the plant, as-boat ~you remember'it, was 8 when you got to the control room.
9~ MR. LANG: When I got up to the control 10 room, we were already'into the loss of-feed water, 11 the ~ main and aux feed water. I don't know exsetly, 12 you know, where into the whole thing I~went in.
.{} 13 I.would guess somewhere around eight or 14 ten' minutes into the event because it would have 15 been probably-five minutes or so until he called and 16 it would have taken another five or so to gut over 17 there.
18 MR. ROSSI: And can you Kind of describe 19 what was going on in the control room at that point 20 in time?-
21- MR. LANG: Ted Lehman was standing next to 22 arian Young who was trying to get the -- he was at 23 t h e --p i s t o l grips on the aux feed pumps trying to get 24 them to respond, which they weren' t.
O RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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E 14
'l Let's see now, I forget the guy at the
. f-s A_) 2 primary panel. I have f orgotten his name now. It 3 has slipped me.
4 MR.'ROSSI: Rick Walleman.
5 MR. LANG: Yeah. He was at the primary
, 6 panel paying attention to that. The ATOG procedura 7 was laying -- I don't Know if we call it ATOG 4
8 anymore, EP 1202.01.
, 9 MR. ROSSI: Wha t's the number again?
10 <
MR. LANG: 1202.01. i i
11 MR. ROSSI: W a s -' o p e n e d . ,
12 MR. LANG: It was in the supplementary _
{) 13 action section, and I don't remember exactly where 14 in-there.
- 15 MR. ROSSI: Where was it loca te d?
16 MR. LANG: OnLthe reactor operator's desk.
17 M R ._ ROSSI: And was someone using it at 18 the time or reading from it?
19 MR. LANG: It was-open, as best I could 20 tell, at the time to the section it should have been 21 opened to and to I ---.whether or not they might have 22 come to a particular step and'then were a t tending to
- 23 it, but nobody was standing'next to it reading it 24 wnen I-walxed in.
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.. :L MR. LANNING: Was the assistant shitt (m,) 2 supervisor in the control room when you arrived?
3 MR. LANG: You are talking about Steve 4
4 Feasal?
5 MR. LANNING: Yes.
6 MR. LANG: He was running back and forth, 7 basically -- well, not necessarily running, but you 8 know what I mean between the control room and the 9 cabinet room.
10 There were lots of anunciators on. I' 11 couldn't begin to name all.of them, but'some of them 12 were the SFRCS enunciatros.- And since.they were
{} 13 working on aux feed pumps obviourly we._ ha d SPRCS 14 actuation.
15 And trom what I heard afterwards I think 16 what he was doing was running back and forth trying 17 to reset'the SFRCS lodging.
18 MR. ROSSI: 'All right. And then do you 19 Know who made the first telephone call'to NRC 20 headquarters, was that you or was that - .had that
~
21 been done by the time you got there?
22 MR. LANG: 'The NRC may.have been contacted 23 first'by anybody immediately on the trip. I don't 24 Know whether that was done. That.would have been-RUNFOLA~ & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION P
_W-_ _ _ _ _ _ .A '
16 1 before I was there.
.. 2- As far as specific-information about the 3 feed pumps, them tripping, tna t type of thing, that 4 wss me.
5 MR. ROSSI: At about what point did you do 6 that?
7 MR. LANG: It was just shortly after tne 8 first aux feed pumps -- well, after both trains came 9 bacx. They came back pretty close together.
10 MR. LANNING: Were you requested to make 11 this.pnone call or is this part of your normal 12 responsibilities?
(~'3 13 MR. LANG: Tha t's kind of a transition. I v
14 should say it is kind of a suspended transition 15 right'now. In the past and currently, it is the 16 shift supervisor's responsibility to see that those 17 things are done.
18 This cali would have been made for 19 information, you know, about the specitic cause of 20 the event which would nave been, you know, putting 21 this into the emergency plan.
22 Declaring-something under the emergency 23 plan will be according to our current, I don't Know --
., 24 well, our current plan for the future, the STA's
('~' )
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
17 1 Will be giving or being-the interim EDO. Right now
( 2 we are not.because we'are not fully trained on it.
.3 MR. ROSSI: But the first call that you 4
4 made to the NRC_atter'you got there --
5 MR. LANG: You asked me whether or not I 6 was told to do it. I think I asked Ted Lehman if he
'7 wanted'me to call, and he said yes. -I believe 8 tha t's~ the way ~it-went.
i-
! 9 MR. ROSSI: And I think you indicated that i
j 10 at the time of your call, both aux feed trains were
~ 111 back?
12 MR. LANG: At the time when I called the 13 NRC, yeah.
)
14 MR. ROSSI: 'That was the first time you
] 15 called the NRC.
16 MR. LANG: Right.
j -17 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't you just j 18. pro'ceed with what you observed after you got into
-19 the control room.
20 When'you got there you indicated that they 21 were without.both main and aux feed, and that S teve 4 22. Feasal was' going between the' control room and the 1'
23 cabinet room to take actions of some sort.
.I i 24 What-else did you observe then?
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1 18 1- MR. LANG: I was trying to, at the time, m.
k.) 2 still when I first entered the control room like you 3 are. talking about and even just before and shortly 4- atter I first called the NRC trying to really decide 5 on where the plant was completely in its status.
6 when I called tne NRC I think we were 7- pretty well stable by.then, but prior to that, I was S just, you Know, looking at RCS temperature and 9 pressure and noti.ced that there wasn't any aux teed 10 11ow and'that type of thing.
11 Since the procedure was still sitting on 12 the desk, I went.to that a-couple of times to check
{} 13- to see 11 there was anything else, any other section 14 we'should be in.
15 I turned over, I .think it was --
I forget 16 the exact heading of it, the lack of heat transfer 17 check, I turned over to that. And it said to 18 initiate HPI like everybody'was kind of anticipating, 19 I guess.
20 By the time I got~there though, Feasal nad'
- 21 already'gone over to start.one of the ~ pumps.
22 MR. ROSSI: By going over you mean?
23 MR. LANG: To the back panel and manually 7
24 s ta r ting it ra the r than waiting any longer on it.
_RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
A 19 1 MR. ROSSI: S ta r ting one of which pumps?
. .s .
s 2 MR. LANG: One of the HPI pumps.
3 MR. ROSSI: So he started an llP I pum).
4 Was this before he lett the control room or --
5 M R ._; L A N G : Well, again, he was kind of in 6 transit between the two. And exactly when he was 7 there and when' he wasn't, I don't know. It would 8- have enanged every 30 seconda probably or by the L
9 minute anyway exactly where he was at any time.
10 MR. LANNING: When did he pnysically leave 11 the control room meaning he went through a door?
12 MR. LANG: I don't Know tnat no ever left 13 in tha t respect. I consider the control room to be
{}
14 the area inL tront of the panels and..tne' cabinet room
- 15 not part ot'the control room althougn te c h n ica l~1y I 16 don't Know..
1 7. M R .' LANNING: Tha t's ' wha t I thougnt.. -
18 MR. ROSSI: So-you don't recall' nim 19 actually- leaving the --_that entire control room to 20 go out into the plant?
21 MR. LANG: I don't~ remember him doing-that.
22 I thinX I heard'later on that he did, but my =
23 observations weren't really geared to watching what d
- H 24 Feasal was doing.
^ (v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES ~ (61'4)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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20 1- MR. ROSSI: Do you recall about roughly 2 how long it was after you got into the control room 3 before theyfnad aux feed water bacx to the steam
/
n ',
-4 genera tors 'in one or both, roughly?
S' MR. LANG: I would say, again, I wa sn' t 6 timing it or anytning, but in five minutes or less, 7: I would say.
d MR. LANNING: Atter you --
9 _
MR..LANG: _It is hard to judge time when 10 you-are in that state though.
z Everybody has kind'of
'll got their adrenalin moving and tive minutes plus'or 12 minus a-hundred percent roughly.
( -
13 MR. LANNING: .Was the start-up feed water 14 pump running at the time you arrived at the control
- 15 room?
16 MR. LANG: From the conversation that I 17 overheard, .I never1specifically-looxed'at'it myself l 18 enat I remember, but I believe -- I know I heard
' 19 them talxing about it.so.I Knew it was being 20 attended to.
21- And I thinx it came on just7s little bit 22 atter'I"got-.there, maybe a1 minute.or so, but tha t ~ I 23 am-not that much aware of.. -Start-up feed pump l2 4 doesn't nave all that,much-flow and you want to get O .RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES-(614)445-8477 2
COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION m2 .-.m-2
21 1 it on, of course, to give you whatever it can, but
(^)x
\. 2 since I heard some discussion on it, I Knew it was 3 being ta ken care of.
4 MR. ROSSI: During the timo of between 5 when you got into the control room and when you 6 considered that the plant was in reasonably steady 7 state, sate condition, can you just describe wha t 8 you observed about the use of the ATOG procedures or 9 any other procedures.
- 10 How were they used? Did somebody read
( 11 from them? Did somebody have a check list or now 12 were they used?
l l
l (~)
%J 13 MR. LANG: From what I saw, there wa sn' t j l
14 any tormal use of it aside from it being open to tne i I
l 15 right section.
16 MR. ROSSI: The right section being which 17 section?
18 MR. LANG: Well, it was the supplementary 19 actions and --
20 MR. ROSSI: To reactor trip?
21 MR. LANG: It was right about at the point 22 where it would refer you to go to lack of heat 23 transfer section.
, 24 So there was a step that asks you it you
( )
~
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
22 1 had an SFRCS initiation and if you --
I don't q
w.) 2 remember exactly how the steps go, but shortly after 3 that if you don't have feed wa te r , it reters you 4 over to lack of heat transfer.
5 MR. ROSSI: So you didn't observe anyone 6 calling out trom it or reading from it --
7 MR. LANG: No.
8 MR. ROSSI: Would your description of what 9 was going on.being primarily the reliance on 10 training and knowledge of equipment rather_than use 11 of procedures?
12 MR. LANG: Well, tha t's kind of hard to
(~j 13 say because they are intertwined together. The L.:
14 training and use of equipment is also, training on 15 the procedures so it wouldn't surprise me at all for 16 somebody to - . tha t 's thoroughly-trained, shift 17 supervisor or assistant to not even need to have the 18 boox-opened at all and yet still be able to recite 19 or follow through step by step-exactly.what it says 20 to do.
21 Most of the actions are pretty much 22 dic ta ted by common sense anyway and the only thing 23~ that you really need it for-is to Key you in so you 7,
24 don't torget something. And from what I could see, t )
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
, - , , . - . . . - . . . . . . . . . . = _ , .
F 23 1 everything was done.
( -
2 Tha t's sort of one ot the STA dutics too
- 3. is'to looK at the procedure, where the plant is and 4 try.to make sure t ha t' that is being followed along 4
5 with.
6- Like I said, although I didn't see anybody.
7 reading the procedure, they did seem to be following
- d. it.
9 MR. LANNING: Did the shift supervisor ask 10 for your assistance any time during this transient?
11 MR. LANG: He never asked mefor anything that I recall. Steve Feasal asxed me_once to get-
{} 13 out the emergency plan,-and I was starting to get a 14 little uncomtortable myself even-in tne first taw 15 minutes, the tow minutes I.was there before we had 16 aux toed'back.
17 So I did go over and took'out the 18 emergency plan a n'd looked in;that as.to what 19 classification we would be i n .-
=20 MR. LANNING: Wha t did you dotermine?
21 MR. LANG: At the moment I-picked up the ,
22- book, it would have beenLa site area emergency. under 23 the loss of main and aux feed-pumps. It is"in loss 24 of. shutdown function or something.
!-f'
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24 ,
1 MR. LANNING: And did.you tell the O( /. - 2 a s sis ta n t 'shi t t supervisor of your findings?
3 .R.
M LANG: I told him and Steve Feasal
- 4 also looxed down at the boox and saw the
- 5. cla ssifica tion. And we both more or less told him
'6' at tne s a m e' time.
7 Within,a few seconds, within a minute
}8 before or after of when we told him, we got back the 9 aux feed pumps. And so at that point then we really I
'10 weren't.even in'the. emergency plan that I Know of 11 any-more.
'12 MR. LANNING: When youf. arrived in.the 13- control room, were-any of the equipment operators or
{)
14- auxiliary operators in the control. room?
15 MR. LANG: 1 don't remember. I ca n' t 16' picture'anybody aside from_the ~ pe ople ! .tha t I
-17 mentioned, but they could have'been, you know, .
'18 leaving.or coming in for information or~ orders or ,
19 something and I probably wouldn't have1 noticed them.
20 MR. LANNING: Have you been- on shift when 21' there has been a reactor trip.previously'?
i 22 MR. .LANG: This was the first one for me.
23 MR. ROSSI: This was the'first time you 1 i
24 have.beenLin the control room for a reactor trip? ,
i: /~).
RUNFOLA & ? ASSOCIATES'(614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION i
s
25 l' MR. LANG: Yes.
[ -2 MR. ROSSI: Is that for training or tor 3- actually being on. shift?
4 MR.'LANG: I have been here before during 5 trips.
=6 MR. ROSSI: In the control room.
.7 MR. LANG: But this was the first time 8 that I was on duty.
.9 MR. ROSSI: But you have been in'the i
L 10 control room at otner times for reactor trip?
11 MR. LANG: I have never been in the 12 control-room at the time.'ot the trip. In fact, I 13 still' haven't been.
{}
14 MR. ROSSI: You-weren't there for this one.
t
- 15 either.-
16 MR.,LANG: But I have been in the plant 17 and then in the control room very shortly atterwarda t h
, 18 before. ,
19 MR. LANNING: Can you briefly describe the 20 type of tra ining ' tha t is provided for STA's.
21 MR. LANG:- If I could get out the training 22 book, I could-go through'a whole lot of detail, but 23 basically.we have classes'usually given'by,.at least 24 when I took it, they were givan by_outside
.r)
~'
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION f.
4 p n - --.
t 26 1 organizations like General Physics or Nationals or.
-2 different organizations.
. 3 The classes covered things.lixe reactor 4 theory, thermal sciences. There was some plant 5 specifics. planning ~ training.
6 We have to taxe or we had to taxe checx 7 outs on the system similar to the reactor operator 8- check outs with the< exception that ours weren't 9 quite.as' detailed on locations of various tnings 10 throughout the plant because the intention is that-11 we are going to1be in:the control room all~the time 12- so if we Know'where a particular MCC is or something
{} 13 it.really isn' t that significant-although most of-us 14 tried'to know that-anyway.
15 MR. ROSSI1 .Did you -- you made a 16 telephone call after, I .think you said, atter the 17 auxiliary teed water pumps were bacx to the NRC.
18 Did you make.any other telephone calls 19 over.the red phone during or.after the event?
20 MR. LANG: Yeah, I-spoke to the NRC. 'I am 1
21 not sure now how many calls I made. I made either 22- two or three calls.
23 MR. ROSSI: Over what Kind or a time trame?
24 MR. LANG: Less than an hour, probably O^ RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
27 1 over about a halt hour time frame, r^w
'L) 2 MR. ROSSI: What were the purposes of 3 tnose calls?
4 MR. LANG: The first time I called I spoke
-5 to -- wha t was n1s name Dennis MarXnburgy.
6 MR. ROSSI: Don, Don Marksburgy.
7 MR. LANG: Okay. The first time I called 8 I called simply to inform him of our status, that we 9 had tripped and tha t we had had-a loss of all feed 10 pumps. And I told him that and that we appeared to 11 be stable at the time.
12 lie also asked me some other questions that t
(~') 13 I answered as best I could although some of them he v
14 aaxed I didn' t know and other ones I could answer.
15 And I don't remember exactly wha t the contents of 16 that was. I think he probably asked about steam
- 17. generator lovels and tnings like that.
18 MR. ROSSI: By tnat time, wha t's the 19 s ta tt:s of the steam generators levels trom what you 20 can remember at the time.
21 MR. LANG: I don't remember how many 22 inches they were at. Simply that they were at least.
23 on the -- showing on the start-up range meters and 24 that RCS pressure was coming back into where it t,,T,
~
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
28 1 should be and LTF was dropping.
,m,
\_) 2 MR. ROSSI: And then other calla that you 3 mas e just can you give us a general feeling toe what 4 you told or as muen as you can remember what you 5 told him.
6 MR. LANG: One thing he asked me for, he 7 asked me for tne initial cause of the trip. Tnat, I 8 didn' t know at the time.
9 He also wanted to know what classitication 10 we were making. And since I wasn't EDO, it wasn' t 11 really up to ma to make a classification.
12 So when I called back, I called nim back
(^') 13 both to give him more inf orma tion and to tell him 14 what classitication we are calling in.
15 I spent a fair amount of time talking --
16 well, less than a minute but during that it is a 17 fair amount of time talking to Teddy Lehman trying 18 to get some type of emergency declared.
19 I know Steve Feasal kind of wanted to get 20 the TSC man. We both -- everybody Knew tha t we were 21 out of the site area emergency, but tnen, like I 22 said, we weren't really in any specitic part of'tne 23 emergency plan.
, 24 Maybe if SFRCS was inoperable, we could
) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
29 1 hit into an unusual event under that. We didn' t
(~)
.(> 2 Know it it was inoperable at the time or it it is 3 now.
4 So-there wa sn' t any particular reason to 5 be in the emergency plan, and tha t made a little
( 6 confusion as to:-what it should be.
7 Plus the fact that Ted Lehman, who would 8 have to declare what the emergency was, was still i
9- busy. operating.the plant and. making sure that it was --
f
~ 10 that we weren't going to lose another aux feed pump
- 11. or anything like that.
12 MR. LANNING: So, in your opinion, you l
{} 13 thought it was someone else's responsibility to f 14 inform.the NRC of the type of event?~
15 MR. LANG: As things were, I thinx 16 organiza tiona lly it probably is tne shift l 17 supervisor's responsibility, but he can delegata l
18 that to somebody else.
- 19 So when I asked'him if-he wanted me to 20 call the NRC and he said y e s ', .tha t 's a delegation.
t 21- From then'on it was my responsibility to notify them.
! 22 MR. LANNING: But when_you talked to the ,
l
\
l 23 NRC, did you know, had>you~ consulted the emergency 24 plan at this-time?
, RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
) COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I
, I
t 30
'l MR. LANG: Yes.
I ^T k.) 2 MR. LANNING: So you know that you had 3 been in an area site emergency?
I 4 MR. LANG: Yeah, I told him that had we 5 declared it at the time --
6 MR. ROSSI: You told him being?
7 MR. LANG: Don Marksburgy.
8 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
9 MR. LANG: I told him that we would have 10 been in a site area emergency nad we a c tiva ted the 11 plan immediately but that at that time it didn't 12 apply any more and that we were calling it -- well,
{} 13 in a l a t e 'r call -- well, tnis was -- it was the same 14 call that I talked about the site a re a .. e m e rg e n cy ,
15 but it was after the first call.
16 I told him that we were calling it an 17 unusual event just based on shitt supervisor's I
18 discretion tnat we didn't feel that the plant was 19 totally -- well, it wasn't as safe as what it would .
\
20 normally be. j I
21 They were controlling one of the aux feed i 22 pumps on the trip throttle valve locally, and the 23 other one the pistol grips weron't working right.
_ 24 So between all of that, still everybody was kind ot RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
, . .. . .. . . . .. . ~ . . . . .. - . . . . . - - . . - - . .. . . ...
..t-31 1 uncomfortable. So we wanted to give some
<- )~ -
2 notifications out.
i i 3 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So is there anything 4- elseLthat you remember about calls with the NRC that.
i' 5 you were involved in?
i 6 >
MR. LANG: After I told them that we-were 4
7 declaring the unusual event, I.didn't have any
- 8 reason any'more to talk to the NRC.
- 9 Shortly before I-told the-NRC that,- I I . .
-10 called the sheritt and made sure that some of the
} 11 other actions in the: emergoncy plan were a ttended to j 12 for unusual event.
e 13 MR. ROSSI: Let me ask you a question l f}s_
i 14, about the start-up feed wa ter pump,.and I am not-
< 15 sure.whether you ' would s know, :and tell me it you
^
l 16 don't know for sure, but doDyou_know whether the:
l 17 '. start-up feed water. pump can be used w i t h L o u t --- - o t t la site power. -Ca 4 lt beLloaded on a diesel, do you '
i 19 happen to know?
4-j 20 MR. LANG: It ~ cap se, but'it is not' direct.
21' I t . i s n '.t essentially powered so you have to back 4
f, 22 feed a-nonessential bust from an essential.-
4
~
4 23 MR..ROSSI: Are there' procedures, do 'you t
i . . 4 24 know, for:doing tha t? .
). '
- RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 i -
COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION ,
4
! /
? -
4 32 1 MR. LANG: Yeah, yean, there are. I can't
. (~)
\_/ 2 remember the number ofthand.
3 MR. ROSSI: Do you nave any more on this 4 part before we go on, Wayne?
5 MR. LANNING: Are part of your 6 responsibilities preparing a post trip report?
7 MR. LANG: There is a post trip review 8 sheet that is to be filled out by the STA and the 9 snitt supervisor, mostly the STA, and tha t's in the --
10 well, it is in the trip recovery-procedure.
11 MR. LANNING: What does that sheet 12 encompass?
f 13 MR. LANG: It asks about conditions prior
("_/}
x 14 to the trip, what the cause of the trip was. It 1
15 asxa, nas a list of some various safety equipment, 16 wants to Know whether they have actuated SFAS, SPRCS, 17 did the PORV lift, different things lixe that.
18 And then it also requires an STA and a 19 shift supervisor's signature that there aren't any 20 safety concerns tha t would prevent re s ta r t , and it 21 also aaxa if any safety limits were exceeded.
22 MR. ROSSI: Did you and the shift 23 supervisor _begin to prepare tnat on June 9 or --
, . 24 MR. LANG: Yes, it was hours afterwards k'
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
1-33 1 though. Finished it up probably around close to 2 8:00 in the morning. We did not sign the no sa f e ty 3 concerns _section obviously.
4 MR. ROSSI: What happens when that can't 5 be signed by.you?
. 6 '~ MR. LANG: If that.can't be signed, then J7 it" requires a safety. review board. review before the 8 plant.can be~ restarted.
9 MR. LANNING: .What safety concerns did you 10 identify-during this event at this time?
11 MR. LANG: Well, first of all, even though 12 main feed pumps aren't Q equipment --
13 MR. LANNING: What is Q equipment?
(])
14 MR. LANG: I don't know exactly what it 15 stands for, quality or something likejthat, it is a 16 safety related equipment.
17 Even though the main feed. pump isn't that, la I tninx you-could consider it to be s'saraty concern 19 since it requires a back up'to operate since'it 20- doesn' t. work.
121 Tha t's. kind of a borderline call one way 22 or the other. 'Obviously the aux feed pumps fail-to --
23 well,-they did sta rt, but they didn't.xeep. running 24' and even if one of them nadn't started and Kept-
~O RUNFOLA-& ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 g COMPUTERIZED: TRANSCRIPTION -
i aa
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+
34 1 running-that would have b e. . n a safety concern and (A_)- 2 with both- it obviously is.
3 Wesalso didn' t have the source range NI's 4 rating. That ~ would be a safety concern.
i 5 It11s-hard to remember. There are so many 6 things that failed on us.
7 MR. ROSSI: Did you list all of the sa f e ty --
8 all~the. safety concerns'that you couldLidentify, did h 9 you provide a list of the safety concerns when you 10 tilled that out or did you just get to the point 11 where you would --
]
12 MR. LANG: I am having a hard time i
i (Q- 13 remembering-right now exactly everything that la on
- \J 14 the form. The signatures for theLsafety concerns is 15 just are there any and it you sign ~ it, then it means 16 that everything was fine.
I 17 A lot of these concerns-though do come out 18 in the other sections I thinx not-under that j 19' specific ~ question though.
20 MR. ROSSI: So you' don't recall or ever 21 remember providing an actual initial list 1st the i
4 22 safety concerns. It is more a matter tha t you get 23 to this one-point ~and you can't sign att that there 24 aren't any because there are,some, but you don't~
O RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES-(614)445-8477 COMPUTRRIZED TRANSCRIPTION
35 1 have to give a real list of them.
m
() 2 MR. LANG: Right.
3 MR. LANNING: We probably ought to get a 4 copy of that sheet. We have it. Oxay.
5 MR. LANG:~ There is a little bit on there 6 that at the time we weren't aware of exactly what 7 caused different things so some of the information 8 that I filled out on there later on proved not to be 9 quite correct like the cause of the main teed 10 tripping turned out to be a loss of speed signal as 11 tar as anybody Knows now which wasn't known at the 12 time at all.
(~} 13 MR. LANNING: When did you become aware v
14 that the PORY had actuated during the event?
15 MR. LANG: I was aware that it actuated 16 shortly atter I was in the control room. A number 17 of -- on the order at minutes while I was trying to 18 acquaint myself with what was going on.
19 You could see it on the RC pressure trace 20 that pressure was running up --
I thinx the recorder 21 was showing 2300 instead of 2400 PSI, but it would 22 go up to that and drop down and come back up and 23 that in itselt et en if you didn't see tne valve 24 lifting tells you that it was.
O
~
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION 1
, 36 1~ As far as its sticking open, I wasn't 2 aware tha t it stuck'open until long after everytning
(
'3 had ended.
41 'MR. ROSSI: Long after being while you 5 were-still on snitt or atter you analyzed data later
(
- 6. on?.
7 MR. LANG: After analyzing da ta later on.
t 8 MR. ROSSI: So even.at the end of your. !
9 shift you weren't aware that the PORY --
10' MR. LANG: -- had stuck, no.
t
, nli MR. ROSSI: To.what extent after an event
- 12 11xe tnis and after-you go off shift are you 1 1
() 13 involved in the post. trip: analysis? Do you get 14 involved in that then'or does that go to other
~
f 15 groups to.do?
16 MR. LANG: I guess it would be possible i 17 that we could 11 we were re'qu e s te d to, but I wasn' t a t~ a ll .
18 19
- MR. ROSSI
- .So you were not really at all ,
I q
20 involved in the. analysis of'this event after you 21 went oft shift 7 22 MR. LANG: Well, we had a little meeting, t 23 not -- I don't know if I would call'it a little 24 meeting or not, but anyway it was about 9:00 o' clock.
- f3 '
. s_/ .
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37
- 1 Most of the snitt supervisors, well, Teddy Lehman,
/^>
(_) 2 Steve Feasal, Brian Young _and I think Rick Walleman 3 was there too and Jacque Lingenfelter and Steve 4 Quinnoz and Bill O'Connor and me.
5 A few other people were in a meeting and 6 we were talking about what nad happened, and we had 7 the sequence of events print-out and the alarm typer
'8 print-out and all those things. And we were going 9 through it at that time, and that lasted for maybe 10 an hour and a half, two nours.
11 MR. ROSSI: That was on Sunday morning.
12 MR. LANG: Yes, over about 10:00. Tnat
/~ 13 was tne last I have talked about it otticially until Lj) 14 now.
15 MR. LANNING: Does your trainAng include 16 the use of the safety perimeter display system
-17 during an event?
18 MR. LANG: We have had-some training on 19 that. However, since it hardly ever works, it 20 doesn't really mean all that much.
21 MR. LANNING: I am not.sure I heard your 22 answer.
23 MR. LANG: Well, it usually doesn' t 7
24 operate during a trip. It dumps, and you don't have e i kM RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
e 38 '
1 any display any more.
3 MR. LANG: Yes.
I 4 MR. ROSSI: So after trips,-it usually I
5 isn't available for use?
6 MR. LANG: Right. Which is Kind ot an 7 ironic thing since tha t's what i t was put in for 8 particularly in addition.---well, i t helps for heat >
I- ups and stuff.
9
^
!- 10 We usually have'a curve up for that, but I! ' ~. . 11 it would be nice to h a v e . i t . o p e r a ti n,g post; trip and
, 12 g i~v e an awtully concise picture of wha t's going on.
l
{) 13 MR. ROSSI:' Do-you know why it would'not' ,
! 14 work atter trip?
i 15 MR. LANG: I don' t have any' idea. I am l 16 not involved in'that. All I can figure when the.
J.
17 perimeters are enanging faster, it is quicker than i 18 the computer can handle it, and it dumps or j 19 something. I don't haveothe slightest idea.
20 MR. LANNING: How do you Know'that it 21 doesn' t normally operate after a reactor trip?
j 22 MR.-LANG: I have never seenLit operate
. 23 after.a reactor trip, and I have always heard 24 complaints tha t it doesn't.
.O-RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES' (614)445-8477 j COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION s
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s' 39 1; MR. ROSSI: But'you have been at the plant
-r. .
( ! 2 .. and gotten into the control room fairly soon after 3 other' reactor trips because at one point in time you 4 said this-was1really your first reactor trip on duty.
5 But-you have been in the control room in the times
'6- after other reactor trips.and observed it not 7 working?
8 MR. LANG: .Yes. I can' t remember excatly 9 when. It doesn't.have a high reputation for
_10 reliability though. That particular thing doesn't.
11 It could be. pointed out also thougn, of 12 course, it:is not something that anyone should rely 1
() 13 on anyway.
14 11 you have see a particular point on i
15 there tnat the ' plant ~is supposed to_be at, you 16 should look at the safety graduated instruments and 17 verity that, indeed, you are at tha t temperature and
, - 18 pressure or flow, whatever you-are looking at .
19 because just standard computer reliability things l
, 20 can'treeze up and sometimes it will sit at some 21 particular point, and you will think it is current, .
I 22 but actually it was a half hour ago or something 23~ like that.
4 l 24 So it is not something that any operator
- .q U
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-f 4
.____.-___m_ _ _ _ _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . . . _ ____.____-______.-__._________m_. _ . _ . _ _ . - _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ . _ _ . . _ _ ._______.___.m- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . . . _ .
40 1 really relies on. And as far as I know, they just
()- 2 sort of noticed that it wasn't working after things 3 end.
4 Now, it it was something reliable, I 5 suppose they could use it.
6 MR. ROSSI: You don't have any more.
7 MR. LANNING: I have no more.
8 MR. ROSSI: I don't have any more.
9 MR. LANNING: Prior to the interview, were 10 you advised by the company as to how you should 11 participate in this interview?
12 MR. LANG: Not at all except for just a
(* 13 tow minutes with the lawyer here. lie didn't tell me Q) 14 really anything specifically aside from just, you 15 know, tell the truth or whatever.
16 I Kind of expected maybe to have a little 17 coaching or something, but there.wasn't any.
18 MR. ROSSI: Let me just make sure.
19 MR. LANG: I don't have any reason to 20 expect it. It just seemed like it is an important 21 enough thing that somebody would --
22 MR. LANNING: Have you discussed with 23 anyone else who had been interviewed --
24 MR. LANG: No.
OJ RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
41 1 MR. ROSSI: I gatner that from what you
(_) 2 nad said that since your review of the event on ene 3 Sunday morning tollowing tne event that you nad not 4 really taken part in any subsequent evaluations et 5 the event or --
6 MR. LANG: In the way you are asking that, 7 tha t's right. I nad one phone call from somebody in 8 licensing that just wanted to know what I told the 9 NRC when I talked to them on the phone. That's the 10 only thing I have had to do witn it since.
11 MR. ROSSI: lla v e you discussed tne event 12 much with other people that were on snitt with you
/ 13 at the timo?
(
14 MR. LANG: I haven't discussed it at all 15 with any or tnem. I have witn a few other people, 16 but I haven't -- just haven' t had that mucn -- I 17 don' t think I have seen Steve Fossal or Walleman or la Young since then or it I have, it was pretty brief 19 and --
20 MR. ROSSI: Have you been back on snitt 21 since then?
22 MR. LANG: Well, today, for instance, 23 would be a duty day for me and so I am the STA, but 24 we haven't --
we are not required unless we are in RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
/ COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
42 1 above Mode 5.
.(( )s 2 So we are here, but it is more for just 3 scheduling and that type of thing. It is not a 4 required position any more so I am on duty now but, 5 you know, it really doesn't matter.
6 MR. ROSSI: Anything oise, Wayne? Okay.
7 Why don't we conclude the interview then and that's 8 it.
9 (Discussion held off the record.)
10 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we go back on the 11 record now.
12 I just wanted to say a few things about 13 what wo are trying to do. We are intecosted in
}
14 collecting all of the factual information about wnat 15 occurred during the evont and anytning that can be 16 of value in learning things that were useful during 17 the ovent and how they were used.
18 So we are very interested in how 19 procedures were used, how training played a part in 20 the event, how equipment was used in the event.
21 And one of the questions, I guess, that we 22 didn't ask and while we are off the record, there 23 was a brief discussion that spurred us going back on 24 to the record for further discussion, but we are RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
.. .. . ...m _ . - __ . _ ,. ._ _ . _ . _ ._- _ . ~
43 I
'l interested in comments that you observed where NRC
- ( 2 requirements or procedures or plant procedures or
.s 3 requirements, in your opinion, interfered with i
4 maintaining the parety of the plant.
5 T ha t's the best way to put it. So if you 6 have anything you want to say on tnings that you i 7 observed during this event or during other times i
8 that you have-been an STA where proceduras, j 9 requirements, emergency plans, telephone calls to i
10 the N R C ,' where any ot that-in your perception
< 11 in te rte re s with maintaining the safety of the plant, 12 why don't you just tell us however you want to tell i
/
{) 13 us and we will probably ask a few questions about
, 14 what you are telling. So go ahead.
} -1 5 MR. LANG: Well,.the major point is. simply' ;
e 16 that the emergency plan is initially implemented int i
17 the shift supervisor. And the shitt supervisor has 18 asLhis primary responsibility stabilizing the plant.
19 After he is done with that and he is i 20 confident that-it'doesn't require his a t ten tion a ny' 21 more, then he is supposed to go to the emergency 22 plan and make notifications, i thinx reserve order i
23- of'what I said, and in order for him to do -- well,
, 24 he has to be confident first.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
/
f
44 1 That in some cases can lead to a 7"x
(-) 2 substantial delay in implementing the emergency plan.
3 In_this case, I think it was probably just as well 4 that it was delayed. If we had declared a site area 5 emergency right away and then halfway through the 6 notifications been out ot it, that would have been, 7 you Know -- it wouldn' t have done any good, and it 8 could have caused some more concern than turned out 9 to be necessary.
10 In general the worse the event the more 11 occupied the snitt supervisor is going to be, the 12 longer it is going to take to get into the emergency
/~N 13 plan. Tha t's the way I see it.
V 14 MR. ROSSI: You said the shift 15 supervisor's primary ettort is being directed to tne 16 plant safety?
17 MR. LANG: Certainly. If he wanted to la neglect the plant and go to tne emergency plan, you 19 xnow, maybe tne plant would get away and you would 20 have even a worse event than you started with.
21 So the first responsibility is to mane 22 sure that things don't get any worse than they are 23 and that they get back to normal. And an emergency 24 plan needs to be under somebody else's control, at O
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
45 1 least as I see it.
r 's (s) 2 MR. ROSSI: Do you nave any other comments 3 of a similar nature or from other work that you havo 4 done at the site where NRC procedures or 5 requirements or even things that you perceive as 6 having been initiated by the NRC interfere with the 7 safe operation of the plant even aside from this a event or during this event in particular?
9 MR. LANG: I can't really see anything 10 regarding this event. The only other tnings are 11 just general type things, and I don't know wnether 12 it is the NRC or the company itself that gets us 13 into it.
)
14 It seems like sometimes equipment winds up 15 being kind or obsolete or something before it gets 16 approved. You don't get state of the art tecnnelogy 17 because it is proven even though we all know it is 18 reliable.
19 Tha t's something tar removed from this 20 case, but I guess you have to go through those 21 approvals so that you are sure that it has some 22 safety point or level or but sometimes that's an 23 interference just in the design.
, 24 MR. LANNING: It during the event a site RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 f COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
46 1 emergency had been declared, what would have
(~%
(,) 2 occurred?
3 MR. LANG: Well, that's pure speculation.
4 You mean as far as who would have handled what?
5 MR. LANNING: What was supposed to have 6 occurred or what is the plan when there is a site 7 emergency declared?
8 MR. LANG: Well, that would require 9 activation of our support services here, the 10 technical support center, the operations support 11 center, emergency control conter, all of thoso.
12 There would be more notifications to go.
(] 13 out than wnat there were, and I don't remember V
14 exactly wnst tney are, but in the -- there is a 15 check list in the site area emergency procedure tait 16 you just follow through. And it tells you wno to 17 call and what to do.
18 MR. ROSSI: And who does that calling --
19 MR. LANG: Well, tna t's the emergency duty 20 officer.
21 MR. ROSSI: The emergency --
22 MR. LANG: And that would be the shitt 23 supervisor.
24 MR. ROSSI: So the shift supervisor and RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION l
i I
47 1 the emergency duty ofticer are the same people?
/~~'N
() _ 2 MR. LANG: Init1 ally. He is called 3 intorim EDO, fills in as an EDO until the regular 4 EDO can get on site, which could be -- nowever long 5 it toon him to drive in.
6 MR. ROSSI: The regular EDO tor this ovent 7 would have been --
8 . MR. LANG: I don't Know. There are a 9 number of them it might have been.
10 MR. ROSSI: They are on call people?
11- MR. LANG: Yes, I tnink they carry a 12 beeper tnat wnen we startup the paging system, they have to call in and there is a list as to who is on
{'} 13 14 duty at any time.
15 MR. ROSSI: So had you declared a site 16 area emergency, the shift cupervisor would nave been 17 additional notifications aN that time?
18 MR. LANG: He would have done or directed 19 additional notifications to be done and then once 20 the regular EDO arrived, then we would be -- he 21 would turnover to tha t EDO what had happened and 22 then that EDO trom then on would control the 23 emergency plan.
~
,_ 24 The problem though is in the transition
('" )
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[ COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
48 1 between, you Know, getting into the plant initially 2 to know he has to do tnese things, to make these and 3 until the other EDO gets here.
4 MR. ROSSI: And tha t's tne shitt 5 supervisor?
6 MR. LANG: Who is ultimately responsible 7 for seeing tnat it is done.
8 MR.-ROSSI: Do you have anything else that 9 you want to tell us or comments tha t you want to 10 make? Problems that you have observed?
11 MR. LANG: Well, just in respect to the 12 same tning we are talking about, since the shift
(
)
13 supervisor wasn't able to handle the emergency plan, 14 I, myselt, was spending some time on it and that 15 Kopt me trom watening the plant as much as I really 16 wanted to.
17 I think I saw all that I needed to, but it la was Kind of one eye on the procedure and one eye on 19 the plant. And it was a diversion of attention that 20 I really didn't enjoy.
21 MR. ROSSI: Anything else?
22 MR. LANG: Not that I can think of.
23 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Then we will and the 24 second part of the interview now.
k 'l RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERlZED TRANSCRIPTION
49 !
1 - - - - -
'w ) 2 Thereupon, the interview was j l
3 concluded at 10:29 o' clock a.m.
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50 1 CERTIFICATE
(~/ 2 I, Kim E. Snydor, a Rogistered 3 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for 4 the S ta te of Ohio, do heroby certity tnat I took the 5 interview of Tod Lang and that the foregoing 6 transcript of such proceedings is a full, true and 7 correct transcript ot my stonotypy notes as so taken.
8 I do further certify that I was called 9 there in the capacity ot a Registered Professional 10 Reporter, and am not otherwise interested in this 11 proceeding.
12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
(~'; 13 hand and attixed my seal of ottice at Columbus, onio, 14 on this day ot b l/Lp , 1985.
15 .
16
~
)/] Y K I t/[ . S N Y D E R/, Reg /stered 17 P r o.t e s s io na l Reporter, Notary Public in and tor the State of Ohio.
18 19 My Commission expires January 12, 1989.
20 21 I 22 23
,~
24 RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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6(miss Instructions for Checking Out Transcripts .
- 1. Transcripts of individual interviews are to be checked out only by the individual who was interviewed (as identified on the first page of the transcript). In the case of joint interviews, each person who was jointly interviewed may examine that transcript.
- 2. Transcripts of meetings between Toledo Edison and NRC personnel may be checked out by either NRC or Toledo Edison personnel.
- 3. Keep a sign-out sheet for the transcripts. Log in the time checked out and the t.tme returned for each transcript, the title of the transcript (for example, " Smith Interview,""6-15-85 Meeting"), and the person who checked the transcript out.
- 4. Ask for identification of persons checking out the transcript, particularly for persons wishing to see the individual interviews.
- 5. Provide a copy of the general guidelines " Review and Availability of Transcripts" which includes instructions for making corrections on transcripts. Also provide a correction sheet and additional sheets as requested.
- 6. Collect any correction sheets and make sure they are signed. Give the correction sheets to Wayne Lanning.
- 7. Do not permit photo-copying or retention of the transcript until authorized by the NRC Fact Finding Team. As indicated in the general instructions, individuals may make notes and may have the assistance of other persons in reviewing the transcripts.
I i
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