ML20129B181
| ML20129B181 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/21/1985 |
| From: | Oconnor W, Quennoz S TOLEDO EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290100 | |
| Download: ML20129B181 (59) | |
Text
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1 UEFORE rii E FACT F i t4 D i t4 G T A d li FORCE 2
OF T il E NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISS10t4 3
4 Re:
5 Davia-ucune event 6
of Juno 9,
1905 7
8 9
INTERVIEW OF S T E Pil E N QUENNOZ AND WILLIAM O'CONNOR 10 11 Interview of Stephen Quenno.: and William 12 O'Connor by the Nuclear Regula tory Commtaaion Fa c t l
13 Finding Task Force, ta ku n before me, Celuate C.
- Dawley, a Hog is te red Proteaulonal Reportur and 15 Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio, at thu l t)
Sito Emergony Ope ra tions Contur, Davia-Boasu 14 u e l e a r 17 Plant, Oak lia rbo r, Ohio, on Friday, June 21,
- 1985, la commancing at 9:00 o' clock a.m.
19 20 21 M E M B C l( S OF Til E TEAM:
22 J.
T.
Board 2J Crnie Roasi 24
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!! R. ROSS1:
Wha t wo are going to do la 2
continue the intorviews with Stevo Quonnoa and Bill 3
O'Connor.
4 Wo had talkod to both of you previously 5
but not toge the r, and wo had indicated at tha t timo 6
we wanted to continue the interview la te r on.
7 We now are going to interview thu two of a
you togother, becauso you are both membora ot 9
management that arrived at the site sometimo either 10 during or very soon a f ter the ovent, and tirat of 11 all, why don't each of you indicate whether you have i
12 aaked anyono olso to be in the room at the timo, O
12
=e citic tiv ar- "itaer 11-i 14 MR. O'CONNOR:
Yea, wu have raquested i
15 Mr. Witheroll be prenont during this te s timony, ao 10 thst he could provido counsel if required.
17 MR. QUENNOZ:
1 concur.
10 MR. ROSSI:
Both of you have aukod tha t.
19 Wha t we have decided to do in talking with you thiu 2d tim. is tha t wo prutty much covorod in our previoun 21 interview, uvorything up to the point where you 22 alther woro on your way to thu nito or had arrived 23 at the oito.
24 So what I would like to do is start with
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1 bill O'Connor and, Bill, why don't you just describe O
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what you observed and what you did aftar you arrived 3
at the site.
We are going to try to retrain from 4
any questions and let you just continue that until 5
the plant is at a steady s ta to, stable, aate 6
condition, and if you didn't arrive until after tha t 7
then maybo wo will have to proceed in a little e
different way and then we will have some questions 9
about wha t occurred after the plant was at a s tea dy 10 s ta to, stablo condition.
11 MR.
BBARD:
I think tha t's a good approach, 12 and maybe just to sort of got us in the swing of
()
13 thingu we can start with I thinA wo had gotton 14 to the point where, Bill, you had arrived and then 15 we had gotten to the point where Steve had arrived.
i 16 It would be useful for ma if we could placo those 17 points in timo and go right in where both'of you la were there.
19 HR. ROSSI:
Le t 's start with Bill.
20 MR. O'CONNOR:
I believe in the last 21 interviuw I had already discussed when I arrived on 22 site and the fact that I had received a turnover and 23 all that.
Do you want ma to go over that a g a i n 't 24 MR.
BEARD:
If you would just tell me the ACC FUDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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point in' time just to remind me.
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2 MR. O'CONNOR:
I arrived at U2:46.
That 3
is the exact time that I arrived.
I guosa I am not 4
sure, do you want me to go over that again in the S
control room?
6 MR. BEARD:
I don't thinK that is 7
necessary. I just want to get a transition between 8
the interview we had'several days ago and sort of 9
use tha t as a transition point.
If I could get from 10 Steve the clock time wnun he arrived, then we can go 11 from when you were both there.
12 MR. O'CONNOR:
03:13 Steve arrived, off
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13 the computer printout, J:13.
%/
14 MR.
ROSSI:
uill, describe in general what 15 the plant conditions-were when you got there.
16 MR. O'CONNOR:
When I arrived in the 17 control room, the plant was essentially s ta ble.
We 13 had normal posttrip tempe ra ture a nd pressure 19 conditions.
The startup feedpump was running on the 20 Number 1 steam gene ra tor in parallel with the Number 21 1 auxiliary feedpump.
The Number 2 auxiliary feed 22 pump was running, providing f eedwa ter to the Number 23 2 steam genera tor.
24 Levels were at a ppro xima te ly' 50 inches, to
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the bust of my recollection, reacror coolant system r
lN-2 pressure was essentially in its normal postshutdown 3
condition.
I don't remember the exact value, but 4
they had a bubble in the pressurizer and were under 5
normal hea te r spray control.
6 Louie Simon, the opera tions supervisor, 7
was in the process of comple ting the no titica tions 8
for the unusual event, which they had declared just i
9 a few minutes before I arrived in the control room.
10 ti e was working with the a dminis tra tive assistant 11 over the exact message that was going out over.the 12 recorder.
.I')
13 When I camo into the control room, I asked V
14 Louie to go over tne conditions with me and we 15 basically just walked around the control room and 16 discussed, you know, where everything was, kind of 17 wha t I just told you except in more detail.
18 We went through each panel where we were, 19 looked at the indications.
li e explained to me that 20 the Number 1 auxiliary feedpump was being controlled 21 from the room ~ locally on the trip throttle valve 22 control and tha t the s ta r tup feedpump was running in 23 parallel with it to the Number 1 steam generator.
24 The status-of the Number 2 aux feedpump fs( )
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,was that they were controlling it in manual from the 2
control room which.is normal after a trip.
We put j
3 it in-manual control so tha t you don't get level 4
oscilla tion since the controller tends to control i
5 ove r abou t 'a nine-inch band up and down.
6 We went over the rest of the plant'in.its I
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s ta tus tha t they;wero having problems -ge t ting the 8
main turbine onto. turning gear.
Some of the other i
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9 things tha t we re going on.
Then Louie i n f o rmu'd me 1
4.
the one 10 that thefsource range counters were~ not 4
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- wa s ' technica lly. decla red-inope ra ble prior fto the I
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. trip and tha t the other-one had not come on scale 13 properly and that they had emergency bora ted: f or a l'4 period of time and tha t the shutdown margin
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1-15
' indica ted tha t ' eve ry thing wa s -sa tisf a c toryla nd that
-16 they had stopped from1the eme rgency -bora tion.
17 Righ t a f ter. the1 message was taped _'for the
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. re co rde r. '-- we ll', ~ he askad me D whe the r f S te ve wa s on n
'19 his.way in,-.and I said'yes, but he.probablyfwouldn?t-
-20 be here for~another half an hour. just due-to
-'I 21 know he lives in'Perrysburg,' Ohio,,andEitLjust ta ke s
'22 him longer to -ge t in than it1does me,;and'h'e said, 7
23 "Shouid we wa i t. f or him for the message," Land I-said, l.~
.24 "No, put the' message.o u t ' t ha t - yo u ' ha v e. re c o r de d a t.
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1 this time and if we need to change anything, we can 2
la te r on,"
but I said it sounded appropria te to me.
3 You read the message that they put on the ta pe 4
recorder.
5 At that time the a dminis tra tive a ssis tan t 6
was putting the message out and paging the key 7
response individuals for the unusual event.
I then 8
went to the control room desk and.had the got the 9
phone list out for the~ technical engineer, the 10 ma'intenance engineer, the chemist, and health 1'
11 physicist, and w h e n'.^t h e a dmin. a ssis ta n t finished the t
'12
' paging, which only ta ke s ^a couple of seconds to key
( )
'1J in the' radio 1pager, I had her ge t Jack Lingenfelter 14
'on the phone.
Tha t was1at 3:00.
He is tne 15 technical, superintendent, and I said I ne_eded Jack l
16 to come-in and, a t lea s t,.
S ta n Ba tch' a nd somebody to 17
. d e l'o g the; computer'to s ta rt going over-the transient 18 da ta from,the: text section since they-can'delog at 19
'one-se cond in te rva ls a nd a c tua lly see where the ul l'
l!O plant went through the t r a n s i e n t,' you know,'we had
-21 the control room,stripocharts, but.we ~ always call-in
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22 a posttripl review team on any: shutdown"immediately, i -
23
'and'Stan.and: Jack'and usually like-Jim Arly or-
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.someone:will'ccme in.
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1 That evening Jack, Stan, and Joyce L p% -
2 Lingenfelter came in immediately.
At five minutes 3
after three I called Don Lee, the maintenance j
4 supe rin tenden t, 'a nd I told him tha t I needed at 5
least two'or three of each of the maintenance 6
specialties to show up.
7 in other words, I wanted at least two d
or three more INC mechanics, two or three more
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mechanical maintenance, two'or three more 10 electricians,xbecause of some'of the problems we
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11 were having like getting'the-main turbine ~on gear; 12 and a--few of the other things' tha t we re going on, I
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13 J us t' wan ted a t lea s t-eig h t, ' ten, or twelve extra-14 maintenance personnel on site in addition to the 15 normal nightshift.
16 I called Dave Bryden, the chemist and 17 health phyaicsEsuperintendent, and told him tha t I
'18 wan ted a t least-one ma nagemen t 'a nd seve ra l testers
.19 to'come in duo to-the fact tha t ; wo-would be wanting 20 additional reactor: cool' ant samplesjand-boron samples 7
- 21 along -wi th ' the.. seconda ry.
22 After.a trip we.have = to (sample -~ qui te T23 frequent 1'y to ' ma ke l s'u re tha t. the. s team gene ra tor
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1 Just one te s te r on site, it is fine for normal
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2 ope ra tion with normal sampling, but everything tha t 3
you have to do posttrip, it is too much for one 4
person.
not me, i had the.
5 Then at 3:20 I called all the dayshift ope ra tors 6
admin assistant call 7
anu told them to come in at four in the morning, 8
which ~is four hours early.
In other words, the 9
normal eight-to-four dayshift, I told them to come
'10
.in a t 4:00. or as soon as-they could thereafter,-just 4
11 to have an e x tra. ope ra tion shif t on site since the 12 nightshift had just been through a,
you know, pretty
' (}
zl3 big. event and we needed-somo_ extra people.
J 1
14 Tha t essentially was a l l' tha t I wanted as 15 far as additional support a t' tha t time, was to bring 16
. t ha t n um b'e r of people'in, and tha t would, you know, 17 make me fool comf or table, if you will, w i t h' the
'18 extra support that.I needed.
i 19 MR. ROSSI:
- I ; g a t h e r " a t' this point you had
(
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20 comple te'd your preliminary; efforts to follow up to
.21 Lbegin the followup of the7 event and bcing-additional i
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. people in and itha t kind. of thing?
23
'HR.
O'CONNOR-Yes..
t' is a good point 1for
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24
'MR. -ROSSI:'
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us to switch over to Steve.
Let me ask you one 7k 2
question.
I notice you are using notes today.
I J
assume tha t the times and t ha t kind or thing that 4
you are giving us, tha t during the last week or two 5
you have now had a chance to review logs and that 6
sort of thing, so tha t the times are relatively 7
accura te and based on not just your memory, but a 8
review of logs and events and t ha t sort of thing; is 9
that correct?
10 MR.
O'CONNOR:
These are the same notes I 11 was using during the first couple o'f interviews, and 12 you have a copy of those. These are the ones the
[mi 13 administrative a ssis ta n t was just jotting down in s.J 14 the control room and you guys have a copy of these.
15 MR.
ROSSI:
Oh, okay, fine.
16 MR. -BEARD:
Can we just make it a ma t te r 17 of record tha t some people are speaking to ta lly from 18 memory, some people have one page of notes, some 19 people have volumes.
20 MR.
ROSSI:
Tha t is kind of important in 21 terms of.us figuring out la te r on wha t is memory and 22
. what is a little more reliable in terms of things 23 tha t you have looked at.
24 Steve, why don't you first tell us about 7,U ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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any notes and things t ha t you are using so we will k-2 have a feel for that.
3 MR. QUENNOZ:
I would like to mention that 4
I am using the same set of notes that Bill had that S
was put down by the adminis tra tive a s sis ta n t, the 6
shift supervisor, in control at the time of the 7
event and there has been a lot of things t ha t have 8
happened in this week and tha t it would be very 9
difficult for me to recount these events without 10 some use of notes at this point in time.
11 MR.
ROSSI:
Why don't you tell us 12 basically the same level of de ta il about when you
(}
13 arrived and what you found and up to about the same 14 point in time as wha t Bill did, and then I think we 15 are going to switch from the event to some other 16 subjects.
-17 MR. QUENHOZ:
All right.
As Bill 18 mentioned, I got there at around half past three, 19 went in the control room, talked to Bill.
20 Bill discussed efforts he made of getting 21 personnel in.
I looked at the ope ra tor s ; they were 22 well collected, discharging their duties in a 23 professional manner.
It was ca lm..
24 I walked around the control _ room, looked 7,)
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at the equipment.
There was, if my memory serves me f.
2 right, emergency bora tion on at the time.
I 3
questioned.that and they discussed why they were 4
doing it.and why 1 a'n d 2 was off.
5 We had problems with putting the turbine 6
on turning gear, and we also had problems with 7
control room ve ntila tion shutting oft due to a 8
spiking ra dia tion detector tha t monitors the s ta tion 9
ventilation system.
10 Mr. Crouse was in the. control room and 4
[
11 Louie 1 Simon was in the control. room.
A t ~ tha t point i
12 in time I believe they ha d' t he 's ta r tup feedpump
()
13 supplying both steam ge ne ra tors and both a u x i l i~a r y 4
14 feedpumps were backed off.
11 talked to.cach j_
15 individual opera tor as much as I could to not 16 distract him ye t' ge t information on the event.
I
'17 guess I spent muc'h.of the time looking through the 18
'a la rm = type r, trying to_ resolve in myfmind some of 19 the thing s 'tha t ha d ' ha ppene'd.
20 I instructed the STA to follow me around.
I 21
-I: was wanting t o -. s t a r t making up a log of a nomalie s 22 tha t ha ppe ne d during.the. event.
As I performed my
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23
-review and -talked; with the. ope ra tors, I instructed t
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- him to write items down.we would have to'look a t' or
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MR. WITil G R E L L :
Steve, wha t is an STA?
3 MR. QUENNOZ:
.4 is a member of the crew, the operating shift, on a 5
daily basis and he is available there for analysis 6
of tha' event.
I talked'to h'i m briefly also.
f 7
.I think that is my. impression of wha t i
I 8
. happened that morning.
The plant was in a'
s ta blu 9
. condition.
The MSIB's were shut and we were looking 10 long-term to re e s ta blis h vacuum.
^
11 MR. ROSSI:
I would like.to switch now i
12 do'you have any specific questions on wha t thuy have e
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'13 told us about their actions following the event?
4 14 MR.
BEARD:
Not following the. event.
I 3
15 would like.to go back a t one poin t and ask one-16 question on their actions prior to a rriving a t the 17 site.
I don't know the a ppropria te i
18 MR. ROSSI:
Now-is
- a. good time to finish
-19 with the event, and I am proposing to switch over to 20 questions of maintenance and surveillance. testing 21
.and tha t sort of-stuff.
1-22 MR.
BEARD:.
l'will' throw out the question 23 a n d -cl e t either one.of you' answer as you feel 24
- a ppropria te,- bu t? I nwou'ld : li ke to understand a little
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better the thoughts with regard to the need or 2
desires to go to feed-and-bleed type of core cooling 3
or PORV cooling as you call it here.
4 We have heard some informatinn that being 5
close, maybe if we don't get in quiet, we are going maybe that was a form of direction, 6
to go to it 7
but what I am interested in at this point is what 8
are the key pa rame ters of the plant tha t you u
considered that would trigger such a' decision point?
10 I am sa ying these things like time, is it 11 things like T ave or wha t goes into your minds i n' 12 terms of maxing tha t kind of decision as an
()
1J engineering manager as I am generally-cla ssif ying 14 you here?
15 id a. O'CONNOR:
It would probably be better 16 for me to start the response'to that since I was on 17 the telephone with the shift supervisor through tha t la portion of the event.
19 when I called Ted back, as I indica ted in 20 the first discussions on the second phone call which 21 was, I don't remember the exact time here, but it 1
22 was something like 1:46 to 1:48. time frame in the 23 morning, which was ten to tifteen minutes into it, I
l 24 got the plant conditions from Ted, not everything,
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but the fact that T avo at that time wa s somewhere
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2 around 585 degroos, somewhere in that ballpark, I 3
don't remember the exact number.
4 lie had told me that he had the steam 5
isola tions to the auxiliary foodpumps open, that ho 6
was opening S99 and 608, that he was opening the 7
f oedwa te r isola tion valves for the s ta r tup foodpump, 8
and he had indica tions of feed flow from the s ta r tu p 9
foodpump although it was not much at that time, and 10 t se aux feedpump was starting.
11 1 said, as wo discussed before, I said 12 tha t if wo don't roo s ta blis h tha t in'one minute, and
()
13 gave him a one-minuto time framo from there, tha t we 14 would go to PORV cooling.
15 Based on what I was hearing in the 16 background, the discussions tha t were going on and 17 talking to Tod, I was confident at that point tha t 18 f eedwa te r would uo back on within litorally seconda 19 by the he would say things like "I
have got 20 indica ted flow on No.
1.
I havo got indica ted flow 21 on No.
2.
Prosaure is decreasing in the steam 22 gene ra tor," as the flow was coming on and I said, 23 "If you don't have s ta ble flow on both pumps within 24
-a minute t ha t I want to go - to PORV cooling."
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MR.
BEARD:
You are saying you had an
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-2 indication from Ted tha t you did have some tiow on 3
startup foodpump?
4 MR. O'CONNOR:
Yes.
5 MR.
BEARD:
Your direction or comments 6
were related to getting good stable flow on the two 7
aux feedpumps?
8 MR. O'CONNOR:
Yes, I said I wanted flow 9
established to both steam gene ra tors and if we 10 didn't have flow to both steam g ene ra to rs, tha t we 11 would go to PORV cooling.
Now, if he had the 12 startup pump to No.
I and the aux to the No.
2, that
()
13 is fine, but the words I was hearing was tha t both 14 aux feedpumps were rolling and coming up at tha t 15 time when I gave him the one minute to go to PORV 16 cooling, plus T ave was not what I considered 17 excessively high at tha t instant.
In other words he 18 told me that subcooling margin was adequate, T ave 19 was somewhere between 580 and 590 when I was talking 20 to him at this point, maybe 587, I don't remember 21 the exact number.
- 22 lie said it wa s heating up though.
lie said 23 he still had good steam gene ra tor pressure.
I 24 didn't get an exact number from him, but he said he fs i
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had good steam gene ra tor pressure.
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2 What tha t means, having been an 1
operator, when you look at that gauge it is a zero s
4 to 1,200-pound gauge in the control room and up the 5
scale two-thirds to three-fourths, somewhere in that 6
range, is-good steam gene ra tor pressure.
1
~ 7 I mean it isn't: like you-are reading it 8
down to a one-pound increment.
Thora are 50-pound 4) blocks on the gauge and ho said, "I
have got good i
-10
. steam generator pressure."
He said, "I
still have g
11 level i n d i c a t e d,L" so.1 was. confident that we still 4
12
-had s tea m in the 's team gene ra tors.
In the back of
()
13 my mind I knew, h o'w e v e r, that they probably waren't d
14 removing _much heat at this point,.but I was 15 confident tha t aux f oedwa ter and startup f eedwa te r i
i 16 were imminent.
They would be back in. moments..
I:
17 MR.
BEARD:
Wha t sort of time-frame was
{
18 this?
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l19 flR. ~ 0 ' C O N H O R :,
About ' ten to twulve minutes, i
r 120 f rom'.the best of.my recollection, when.I ca lle d ;.him i
21 back.-
F 22 MR. ROSSI:
About ton to twelve'minutos 4
23 into-th-incident.
24 MR. O'CONNOR:
It wa s a bou t 1:45'when I'
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-1 called him back,-l'46, somewhere in that time frame, 3
2 maybe 1:48.
3 MR.
BEARD:
Bill, are you using it as sort 4
of a T zero clock on this time l
5 MR. O'CONNOR:-
Yes.
The trip would have 6
been~ at 1:35,-the official time, and it was like ten
+
4 7
to fifteen minutes.when I called-back on the second 7
8 call.
' Tha t is after I'had called Louie-and Steve on 9
the initial call.
J-j 10 MR. ROSSI:
Do you-have a record in your 11 notes or.from the adminis tra tive a ssis ta n t on when i
12 t ha t second call j ()
13 MR. O'CONNOR:
No.
The only reason I know 14 tha t is about the right time frame is looking back-15 at when the -- these particular valves that Louie 16 was saying.over-the phone'came-open on the alarm 17 typer, I know it had to-be in tha t 1:45 to 1:50 time i
i 18
- frame.because he was saying=599 is coming open, 608 3
19 is coming open, 106 open, 107 open.
I wa s 'li s te n ing 20
. to the conversations, you know.
21 In other words,-he1had the phone up _ to his 22 ear jus t talking to the ope ra tors, no t to me, and-I
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23
- was getting all the indica tions -coming. open, so I 24 was getting a' warm f e e 'l i n g a t -tha t point that s
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f oedwa te r was coming right back on.
2 He would be saying things like, "I
have 3
some flow on-No.
1.
No. 2 aux feedpump is running,"
4 so like I say, I had not a good feeling, but I was 5
feeling better that f eedwa te r wa s coming back, but 6
we weren't he si ta ting not to go to PORV cooling.
I a
[
7 want to make that point.
We would have'gone'to PORV 4
8 cooling.
We were not ruling it out for'any reason.
9 MR. BEARD:
'Let me see if I can. follow up
- 10 in tha t general area.
You mentionedlat this time T-11 avw wa s somewhere'around 580 to-590.
Wha t. is the 12 normal posttrip. type of-T ave for. loss'of main
()
13 feeopump to the turnace?
~
14 MR. O'CONNOR: A normal postrip_T ave with 15 everything' normal in-the plant would be around 557 16 degrees.
With the loss of feedwater not removing 17 heat, the plant of course is going 'to s ta r t~ hea ting i-18 up,fand with.feedwater totally gone,' the plant would 19 have!been hotter'than=this--it we h a d -. l o s t it'
~
' 20 initially and the main feedpump-hadn't-done any
[
21
' cooling, but we had some cooling 1 initially t h a' t took t
22 us down to almost our normal.posttrip conditions.
J 2'3 In.other words, what I.am saying is-if the 24 reactor trip occurred and all f ee dwa te r-s toppe d-ACE FEDERALiREPORTERS'INC.
l (202) 347-3700 l-l t
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immediately on the reactor trip, we would have been (J
2 up over 600 degrees by our analysis and we weren't 3
at that point yet.
I knew we were heating up, but 1 4
also knew that feedwater was coming back right at 5
tha t moment.
6 MR. QUENUOZ:
The normal response would be 7
a dynamic one.
It would go up to the PORV and then O
scoot its way over to the saturation curve assuming 9
you had loss of f eedwa te r.
10 MR. BEARD:-
A normal response for what 11 kind of a plant condition't 12 itR. O'CONUOR:
For a total loss of
[.,]
13 feedwater.
14 MR. QUENHOZ:
You asked for a to ta l loss 15 of feed.
16 MR. BEARD:
1 was really thinking maybe 17 I mi ss ta te d it.
I was really thinking of a total la loss of main feed, not.a total loss of main and 19 auxiliary feed.-
20 MR. O'CONNOR:
Okay, I was interpreting it 21 to be a total loss of feedwater.
22 MR.
BEARD:
Let me asK the other question.
23 Wha t would be in your estimate typical T ave ~ number 24 for a loss of main feed, but everything else pre t ty
,sU ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700 T
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-1 much working as it would?
2 MR. O'CONNOR:
Assuming tha t the loss of 3
main f eedwa te r wa s the initia ting transient also, l
4 wha t would happen is the reactor coolant system 5
would heat up, trip on high reactor coolant pressure 6
at 2300-pounds, then come back down, T!! and TC would 7
come toge ther a nd a pproa ch ' the. norma l posttrip box, 8
assuming tha t the a uxilia ry feedpump s ta r te d t..
9 normally on the steamfued rupture control isola tion, i
10 so it would come right-into its normal posttrip 11 condition of 557' degrees o r - s o.'-
12 MR.. BEARD:
Okay, so that the tempe ra ture
} ()
13 would go below the normal posttrip steady value ~ and 14 then~ return'to~some number like 5577 15 MR. O'CONNOR:
Yes, sir, t h a t ' s. c o r r e c t.'
[
16 MR. QUENNOZ:
I think that was basically
~
17 to-your tempe ra ture corresponding to the sa tura tion i
18' pressure of your steam gene ra tors, plus a-few i'
19 degrees for thermal driving head.
i
- 20 MR. BEARD:
One o f ',the reasons for asking 21 numbers is not'to pin you'down,-but theJnumbers that i
' 22 are specific tofyour facility are a little different.
- 23 than some of thezother numbers for other B.and W
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4 as-2 So if for a loss of main f e e dwa te r y
3 situation, typical number a few minutes into it 4
would be 557, and you are up a t 500 to 590, you are
.5 like 30 degrees ahead of it, higher, but you are 6
within or below the value you would expect for 7
comple te loss of both main and auxiilary feed?
1
[
-8 MR.
O' CONN 0R:
Yes, sir.
I 9
MR.
BEARD:
Now, what is the-significanco 10 in your mind of being: JO degrees above the normal 11 posttrip value for loss of main feed in terms-of i
. 12 saturation and swells tha t go on, pressurizer levels
(])
13 a n d,' you k n'o w, benchmark things you. carry'around in
' 14 your head, what is the significance'of that 30
~
i 15 degrees?
16 MR. O'CONNOR: _The-significance of that 17 thirty degrees is knowing tha t on a trip we 4
la
~ typically add some' water to the pressurizer on-the 19 trip recovery, and the swell.of the system would 20 ha ve ~ta ke n the pressurizer back up to-its normal 21 operating level.
22 In;other wordu,-the plant normally:
~
23 ope ra te s at 532 degrees and we were two to three O'
- 24 deg ree s. a bove - tha t- -whe n I' ha d. the callback.
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pressurizer level.would be somewhat above the f
2 200-inch' mark depending on how much water they added, i
f, 3
but.it-should not be solid or any thing like that at 4
this point.
JW e s h o u l d.. s t i l l have a good steam t
5 bubble, should be ;.a ble to spray.
I 6
MR. QUENNOZ:
Maybe I 'can -a nswe r a little 7
bit on that.
There is a thumb rule that'the i
8 operators use, t ha t-. t he re is one degree of reactor 9
coolant average temperature'will c h a.;g e a.
I 10 pressurizer-level-by five' inches, so if you had=a-no l
!11 make up to y o u r-r e a c t o ri c o o l'a n t system a s. a - r e s u l t-i 12 of the trip and'came back to 590.' degrees, that is
()
13 approxima te'lyf eig h t degrees above your normal which would be-five-eighths or 40 j
14 tempe ra ture,:
-15 inches a d.d i t i o n a l pressurizer; level, assuming-your l
16
. normal-level is 200 inches, your pressurizer level l'
17 should bed 240 inches.
18 MM.-BEARD:
Along'this same_line of the l
L 19 key' things tha tL you considered in terms of-going to-
-20 PORY cooling:
i
~
(
21
~_
M R..s RO S S I~:.
Letime_.ask.a question here on i.
(22 wha t 'spe ci fica lly doe s '.the procedure:say about when i
~
'23
.you_go t o l. P O R V i c o o l i n g ?
l l
l.
24 MR. O '.C O N N O R :.
The procedure L a ta tes if you-1O I
-ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS.INC..
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have a total loss of main and auxiliary f eedwa te r, O'
2 you willigo to PORV cooling, and it gives some details on the right side of the page where they 3
4 define what the loss is and that is steam generator 5
level less than eight inches, steam ge ne ra tor 6
pressure less than 960 and decreasing is the 7
definition'--
8 MR.-QUENNOZ:
Both~ steam gene ra to rs are 9
dry.
.10 MR. BEARD:
I was just following up 4
11 Steve's comment t ha t, I think he said tha t the 4
12 condition is that both steam genera tors are dried
(])'
~ 13 ou t, -a nd L I ' was f ollowing up by.saying:then I 14 unde rstan 1 tha t these pressures and. level numbers I-15 that you quote in the procedure would be then the 16
- definition of wha t. cons ti tu tes dried out steam il7
.ge ne ra tors,. I ta ke i t7 18 MR. QUENNOZ:
.Yes, sir.
19 MR. O'CONNOR:
That is the pure definition t
t 1
20 of a dried ou t ' s team ge ne ra tor.
4 121 MR.'ROSSI:
Do you in terpre t tha t 22 procedure asemeaning.when you get'those points from t
' both 23 the control _ room indicators-or recorders for 24 steam gene ra tors l-tha t a s quickly'as possible PORV-ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS-INC.
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-cooling should be e s ta bli s he d, or is there some
. (3 ib) 2 procedural thing tha t modifies it depending on
'3 whether you a re abou t to get feedback or not?
4 MR. O'CONNOR:
In the pure sense of the 4
S definition for any procedure you have to do wha t i t 6
tells you, but operators are allowed to take actions 7
and there are e x tenua ting circumstances in all 4
8
' procedures.
In other words, there is no need to 9
jump right up and open the FORV and s ta r t both 10 makeup pumps if you know f eedwa ter is now going in 11 the steam gene ra tors.
.There is no need to give 12 yourself a loss-of-coolant accident for no reason.
'()
13 The - ope ra tor discretion does come.into play in all 14 emergency procedures.
15 It is impossible to write a procedure to
+
16 cover every single circumstance, and i t would be i.
17 foolish to ever make tha t requirement,,because then 18 wha t you will have.is a bunch of ope ra tors standing.
19 in the control room with their hands in their. pocket
.20 blindly'following a-procedure, so there'has to be 21 some la titude given to the opera tors knowing-that he 22
' has plant conditions that are going on that-he knows
'23 for the time and for the. specific incident and, in 24
. this-case for^an_ example, the ope ra tors were ACS FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
.(202) 347-3700 t
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confident that f eodwa te r was being re-established s/
2 momentarily and they knew tha t as soon as that i
3 feedpump s ta r ted that stear ge ne ra tor pressures
-4 would fall right off, cooling would be 5
re-established immedia tely.
6 They also knew the seriousness of this 7
event, and we have been well~ trained on this y
8 particular event in our. annual simulator training, i
9 and they know time frames for rees ta blis hing PORV t
10 cooling.
11
'MR.
~B6ARD:
They know time framos?
1 tha t ' i f you 12 MR. O'CONNOR: Yes, t he y. :know 4
l ( )'
-1 3 let~that system cook up and hea t. up to sa tura tion l
14 and then you s ta r t your cooling, odds are-you might i
15 not recover i t <wi th only PORY cooling, but t ha t.
16 typically takes 20 to 30 minutes-without f eedwa te r,
17 which they were only' oight to ton minutes into it at 18 this point.
19 MR. QUENNOZ:
I would like 'to preface tha t i
l 20 tha t ia with_only makeup !!PI cooling.
If at any l.
21 time-you ge t. back _the _ electric s ta r tup pump, you are t
l 22
. assured tha t you will adequa tely cool the core, id any, time'you would got back either auxiliary 123 r
L e
I 24
-feedwa te r pumps, then t ha' t would be sufficient.
You-o:
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would have'no possibility of core uncovery.
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f1R. BEARD:
You mentioned a minute ago thu 3
ope ra tors arekvery familiar wi th this. type of plant 4
4 transient and know the time frames t ha t you gave us, 5
numbers like 15.to 201 minutes, 15 to 30, what did i
6 that presume?
i-7 MR. O'CONNOR:
I'will backup and say it 8
over again for the time frames.
The ' ope ra tors know 9
based on their training and study of this particular s
10 Tevent for loss of ' toedwa te r tha t the longer you wait,
- 11 the worse it is in that if.you are wi thou t - f eodwa te r
- 12 for 20 to 30 minutes and then do not regain-j
()'
13 f ee dwa te r 'b'u t ' o nly - g e t makeup PORV cooling, tha t the i
14 core may not be-protected for tha t period :a f te r t ha t.
15
,They are also well aware tha t if l you ge t 'a ny l
- 16 f eedwa te r back, whetherTit be just'the s ta r tup pump 17 alone, in conjunction with t'he-PORV cooling or
, 18 auxiliary f ee dwa te r pump, tha t. the re' -is-a bs olu tel y.
~
19 no prob 1em that every analyzed event is within the 20 bounds of t ha t pa r ticula r analysis.
In other words, 21 the core will always.be.in good s ha pe.
22 So putting yourself-in their frame ofJmind 23
'and mine on the phone, xnowing weiare only ten t
24 minutes ~into thefloss of feedwater and knowing
. ACE' FEDERAL' REPORTERS INC.
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f e u dwa' te r is imminent, there was'no need to ini tia te p
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2 PORV cooling right a t tha t moment.
. ll o w e v e r, we also 2
put the rule on it, or 1 did on the phone, and Ted f
4 was going to do it anyhow, tha t if iie didn't have r
5 flow within another minute, that Poav cooling would-6 have been established.
'There is a bsolutely. no 4
7 question tha t-that would have'been.done.-
8 MR.
BEARD:
My personal assessment is both.-
9 of you gentlemen. a re ve ry sharp engineers, and I 10 read between the~ lines of w ha t you say is tha t you
- 11 are very f amilia r wi th the' plant transient analysis,
.12 and it seems to me, based on - o the rfin f orma tion tha t
(]).
. 13 your people hava presented to us, tha t the operators 14 as well as you'have a. f ee l - t ha t..t he magic. point
'15 seems.to be we need.to get 450 gallons feed from 16 comoplace within 30. minutes.
Would.you agree with.
17 that or disagree w i t h' ' t ha t ?
a 18
.R.
O ' C O N*- J R :.
I would agree tha t we need M
19 to-get f eedwa te r within that 30-minute time frame a
d 20 MR. BEARD:-
Maybe no t tha t number.
J 21 EMR. O'CONNOR:.-- but 30 minutes.might not-
-22
-be the-exact number.
-The anelysis uses 30 minutes, 23 but they are also trained that get tha t ba ck ~ a s soon
~
l 24 a s1you can. -
In o ther 'words, don ' t. si t there with ACS FEDERAL REPORTERS-INC.
(202) 347-3700 l
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your hands in your pockets for 30 minutes and then O
2 say okay, we will s ta r t the startup feedpump now.
3 t4 R. BSARD:
What I am trying to 4
unde r s ta nd, Bill, is simply tha t 1 think you and the 5
operators knew you were something like twelve 6
minutes into this scenario.
You had an outside 7
analysia number of 30 minutes, so you wanted to be 8
moving quickly, but it is not like somotning one you hadn't crossed over the magic 9
minute into it 10 threshhold is wha t I am trying to ask you, is tha t 11 the kind of feeling you had?
12 MR.
O'COdNOR:
Yes, we had not crossed 13 that threshhold into "Oh, my goodnous, we are in
()
14 trouble now."
Thuro is utill, if you can call it a 15 comfortable feeling, they still felt confident tha t 16 reestablishing teedwa te r right now, everything is 17 going to be just Line and it is not necessary to go 18 to PORV cooling in tha t first eight or ten or twelve 19 minutes.
20 MR.
BBARD:
Le t me let that particular 21 part drop for a minute and go on to the other aspect 2 2 of PORV cooling.
Did Te3 tell you anything about 2 3 his perception of the need for PORV cooling or 24 whether the licensed operator in the control room ACB FEDERAL REPORTERS lHC.
(202) 347-3700
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1 who was running the secondary side had recomm'nded e
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t ha t he felt-it was time for PORV cooling?
4 J
MR. O'CONNOR:
I do not recall any i
'4 recommendations from the no on the phone at the time.
5 MR.
BEARD:
Did Ted say anything about-6 w ha t his assessment was as far as the need to go
't o i
7 PORV cooling in the sense of should we do it now or 8
should we wait a minute?
}
l 9
HR. O'CONNOR:
Ted implied to me tha t we 10 were getting f eedwa te r back momenta rily and we 11
' discussed PORV cooling on the phone and that 18.'when
~
12 the one-minute rule came oat of my mou th : and. i t ~ wa s
.()
13 "You have one more minute, if not,; go to PORV i
14 cooling."
i 15 MR.
BE ARD -
What about the consideration 16 of your emergency. procedures which'say if both steam 17 genera tors are dried out'go to-PORY1 cooling?
Wha t
=
d 18 degree diu you consider tha t 'in makingLthe1one-19 minute decision?x i
'20 MR. O'CONNOR -
I was' convinced the-steam 21
'g e n e ra t o r s were not less than'tlyen960 and less than 22 eight inches based on.what Ted' told me when I asked 23
'him what -
- w he n. he gave me the plant conditions, 24 he said, "I.have good s team genera tor pre ssure. "'
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MR.
BEARD:
For both generators?
(.
2 MR.'O'CONNOR: Yes, which to me means ho 3
has got p'ressure in the 900 to 1,000 range.
When e
4 you are looking at the metet, 3 tan't like he is 5
sitting there saying, "I
have got 907 or 943," but 6
an operator ha s a feel for his motors and he looks 7
down and he sees tha t needle up at this point on a 8
scale t ha t is this wide, tha t is good steam 9
genera tor pressure.
10 MR.
BEARD:
Obviously as we have e r. c l i e r 11 noted, the traces of the event, and aa we have noted,
~
12 you had a chance to look at those i. ow, I presume you
.( }
13 have; is that correct?
14 MR. O'CONNOR:
Yes, sir.
15 M ;R. BEARD:
The tra ce s show both steam 16 ge nera tors were in the condition of satisfying the 17
. criteria for both being dried out for some period of 18 minutes, maybe it is three m i r. u t e s, maybe it is five 19 minutes, but some period of minutes, not for ten 20 seconds.
21 Now, in retrospect, and you'may. choose not 22 to answer this and I would not be offended, but in 23 retrospect do'you think you should have been 24 required or you'should have mide the decision or s.
Nj-ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-3700
7
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'l that your procedures require'd you to enter PORV 2
cooling?
~
3 MR. O'CONNOR:
Not being in the control 4
room with me watching the me te rs, I prefer not to 5
answer the question.
6 MR.
BEARD:
Tha t-is. fine, Bill.
That is a 7
perfectly acceptable answer to me.
u Steve, would you-care to commont on tha t 9
same question?
10 MR. Q U E,N N O Z :
The same comment.
11 MR.
BEARD:
I have no further questions.
12 MR. ROSSI:
I would like-to' switch over to 5( )
13 some other issues just on general.organiza tion of-
"14' the plan t. s ta f f a nd that kind'of thing.
j
- 15 Steve,.1:think this is best addressed to 16 you first.
Could you tell us how:the-maintenance-17 organiza tion is at-this plant,'whether tha t 'is under
'f'o r t h, '.'a n d how the 18 you, under someone else, and so 19 organiza tion and engineering support-for
~
20 troubleshooting is at the plant?
. 2 '1 M R '. QUENNOZ:=
The maintenance. department l
' 22 is under the plant manage r a t Da v i s-'Be s se.
The l
l 23
. main tenance -supe rin tenden t ~ reports directly to me.
l 24
-He ha s a,to tal of. tour s ta f f s and<five different
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- shops which report to him.
ti e has a mechanical 2
s ta f f, he-has an electrical staft, he has an J
ins t rume n ta tion and control staff, and he has a 4
maintenance planning group.
In the shops he ha s a
),
5 pipe shop, a well shop, a repair shop, an 6
ins trumen ta tion - and control shop, a n d 'a station 4.
7 services shop.
8 MR. ROSSI:
When there are problems with 9
' equipment a t the ~ plant, how are they normally 10 identified and brought-to the a t ten tion of the 11 ma in te na n ce 1 su pe rvi so r or maintenanceggroups?
'l'2 MR. QUENNOZ:
!n general, the ope ra tors 13 are the. main-source of i n p u t s ~, > n o t.. t h e complete 4
14 source, but as the. opera tors ma ke :- t h e i r r o u n d s,- they 15 identify equipment problems which~theyfdocument.on a
~
~1 6 work request.
~
17 These-work r e q u e s t's.: a reis u b m i t te d to, in 4
the sh'if' supervisor, and
~18 the case of' ope ra tcra,
t'o~
t 19
.thon they are electronically entered.
They are 20 submitted.ficatito the' shift supervisor..
Then'we 21 have an operations coordina tor, who-receive s the 22 output every; morning-from the-shift) supervisor, Land 23 he reviews'those-for their completeness and to make f
-24
- sure 'they a re 7nor duplica tes,. and i the_y Da re ? en te red
.) _
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electronically-on our Davis-Besse maintenanco y
2
-management system.
The maintenance staff will then J
turn thoso work requests into - ma in tena nce work 4
orders.
They ta ke basically a request for repair or 5
calibra tion or replacement of mecnanical equipment i~
6 or electronic ins trumen ta tion, turn it into a 7
maintenance work order which is a structured work 8
~ procedure.
t-9 MR. ROSSI:
If during this oh, let me
~ 10 ask one question before I go to that.
Nonlicensed
-11 equipment opera torsf also identify problems.with 4
12 equipment?
( )'
~13 MR.-QUENNOZ:
Yes, sir.
whether the 14 MR. ROSSI:-
Who decides 1.
t 15 maintenance problems that a 'r e f ound a re such that
-16 they-are~actually1 design problems-or more basic-17 equipment problems tha t.. t hey ca n ' t -j us t solve by 18
. repairing equipment or replacing'it with identical i19 equipment?
Who ma ke s t ha t' ki nd of decision?
l 20 MR. QUENNOZ:
Well,.they-just. continue 21 going on with the. process.
When tha t pa r ticula r-2'2
~ s ta f f T enginee r, main tenance ' ata f f engineer, he uses-23 the CRT to find outwhich"new' work requests'are 24 writtenlaga' inst his system.
ACE PEDERAL.
REPORTERS'INC.
(202) 347-3700' L'
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1 Each engineer on the maintenance s ta f f is
'l
'2 assigned one or more systems for which he i s the 3
expert on, and he receives training on those t'
4 particular systems.
He_is the. focal point tor tha t 5
pa r ticula r sys tem.
He is responsible to ensure that
'6 the procedures associated with tha t system are 7
current _ and he 'is responsible for the final
-3 implemen ta tion of any modifications t ha t are made to
-9 tha t system.by our engineering.and facility 10 modi fica tion department.
i-11 MR. ROSSI:
Are the engineering and 12
- facility moditication/ department, is tha t under the
- (-)
s 13 plan t"ma nage r. also?
'14 MR.-QUENN0Z:
No, sir that is under 4
-15 difterent organiza tions outside the s ta tion under
'16 the. engineering director for the engineering 17 depa r tmen t a nd under the nuclea r ~- proj e cts director 18 forithe facility modifications.
But basically he is 19
. the focal p,o i n t ; he isfan' expert.on the system.
'20 MR. ROSSI:
"He" beingfthe-maintenance t
~
21
- sta f f engineer?
22
.MR.-QUENNOZ:
Ma i~n te na n ce s ta f f-enginee r.
- 23 MR.. ROSSI:
.He is underLthe plant manager?
f24
.M R..QUENNOZ:
He is'under the plant.
)-
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- - l manager.
He will prepare a work package based upon 12
. wha t is written in the work request.
Often it J
requires him'to go out to look at the equipment, to 4
personally inspect-it and determine wha t is needed.
5 He_may-have to_ ta lk with people in the shop about 6
problems they ha ve : had with that piece of_ equipment.
t 7
-He perhaps would-have.to go to the vendor if he did s -
8
_not ha ve -' the expertise 'i n hand for the repairs of 9
tha t equipment.
.10 He essentially builds up a package tha t 11
-specifies tag-out requirements, the procedures to.be 12 used, travelers to be a t tached to the-work order,
[]--
~
13 such as ' tagging and welding permits and things of 14 that sort.
He builds up a ~ package for the proper 2
15 repair of that particular piece of equipment.
16 He then submits tha t l produc t tv the 17 maintenance planning group' which properly plans 18 tha t. equipmen t so' tha t it_can be conducted 19 efficiently on line.
We are also instituting in 20
~ July?a priori tiza tion effort tha tLwill, when it-goes 21
'through tha t ope ra tions engineer,=he will assign a 22 priority'to it based upon ope ra tions input on how-
'2 b important that pa r tic ula r request.w'ill be, and i t-I
[.
uses eight different' factors.--
24 Y
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MR. ROSSI:
That is not'in place now?
2 MR. QUENNOZ:
No, it is not in place now.
--3 MR. ROSSI:
Something new on.the 4
priorities?
5 MR. QUSNNOZ:
One of our PEP items.
It 6
'will serve to prioritize.the repair of equipment, 7
and there are three different ca tegories, and.the 8
first-two are really outside of.the prioritiza tion
~9
-because they are such a high priority that they-are 10 not; scheduled, but all-the repair work tha t will be 11 scheduled starting in Julyowill be done according to 12 the priorities assigned-by the ope ra tions - depa r tmen t.
()
'13 MR. ROSSI:
How,has that been done in the 14 past?
15 MR. QUENNOZ:
It has been'done in the past f
16 and will'also continue to be done under the new 17 system, but~~it has been done with ~ biweekly meetings 18 of the maintenance' planning group.
.The re' a re weekly
.19 mee tings,.twice-weekly mee tings, tha t will'have all 20 of the maintenance planners, represen ta tives from-21 ope ra tions a nd 'QC.
They will'meut toge the r 22 generally all-morning to develop the work packages 23 t h a t t.a r e. g'o i n g ; t o be released to ~ the~ shops 11n the-24 next few days.
Every-day we have a meeting.
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MR.
ROSSI:
That includes ope ra tions?
/s (J
2 MR. QUENNOZ:
Ope ra tion s input.
1 3
MR.
ROSSI:
Who usually a t te nds those 4
meetings from the opera tions side?
5 MR. QUENNOZ:
A person like Louie Simon or i
6 Vern Opfer and Jerry Lannon.
They are all former 7
shift supervisors who hold or have held senior 8
reactor operators license, very knowledgeable of 9
plant systems, and they provide the prioritiza tion 10 and the operations input so that the work ooing done j
l 11 is adequate to support safe operation of the plant.
12 HR.
ROSS1:
Who decides things like j
(}
13 preventive ma in te na n ce and testing of equipment to 14 ensure tha t it is ope ra ting properly in surveillance 15 testing?
What group.does that?
16 MR. QUENNOZ:
Surveillance testing is 17 MR.
ROSSI:
I am talking more on la surveillance testing more than just wha t. is required 19 by the technical specifications, but any testing
~
20 tha t is done over and above the technical 21 specifications to make sure tha t the ope ra tion of
.22 the equipment in kept up to proper level.
23 MR. gugNuGZ:-
We are under standardized 24 toch specs so we have a very ela bora te surveillance L,i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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~1 test program.
We have a person assigned to tha t 2
2 called surveillance te s t.
engineer.
.11 e is required l
3 to ensure the proper-scheduling of the surveillance 4
te s ts.
I S
We run a very la rge -numbe r of-te sts in tho i
'6 area, in the neighborhood.of ten thousand, in excess i
7
- of ten.thousand tests during the year.
There is a t
[.
8 review proc'ess associated ~ with a surveillance test l-9 programt which I think would be similar to what other 10 plants have.
11 MR. ROSSI:
This is 411,now really 12
- directod at'the toch' spec ~ requirements?
13 MR. Q U h N N O 7. 3 Tha t's a l'1 directed-in the.
I i
14 tech-spec requirements.
Thure a re acceptance 15 critoria with each test to ensure that the equipment l
16 is operable in accordance-with the technical 17 spe cifica tions.
18 They reco1ve a subsequent review by the 19 cognizan t enginee r, > tha t de signa ted 'e nginee r who is 4
20 a systems e x p e r t.'
There is also-another program e
t-21 called a performance. test ~ program.
Tha t i~s resident 22 in the~ technical section which is also a part of tue 23 s ta tion.
.They have' a' s ta tion - perf ormance group numb'er of' performance tests.on 24 which-runs a l
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-1 equipmen t 'wi thin the plant to ensure t ha t it is 2
running to optimal performance.
It covers pumps, s
3 pump performance, heat exchangers.
4 MR. ROSSI:
This: is.over and above wha t is 5
required by the te chnica l'~spe ci f ica tions?
6 MR. QUENNOZ:
Yes, sir, ove r ' a nd.a bove 7
them.
There is also a number of wha t we call 8
periodic,teste which are not surveillance tests, but 9
look identical to a surveillance test, tha t we run 10 tha t is scheduled concurrent with the surveillance 11 test program.
These performance tests will cover.
12 all your turbine testing, other important pieces of
. ()
. equipment'throughout the plant.
It is not a 13
_14 performance test aa such, the theoretical 15 calcula tion of pe r f orma n ce,- but actually tests that
-16 are required or recommended by the vendor to 3
J7 properly check out the equipment.
18 MR. ROSSI:-
Now, all of tha t, I gather, is 19 also under the plant manager.and not usa d e r the 20 engineering director?
21 MR. QUENNOZ:
Yes, sir, tha t -is correct.
22 in addition to that program we"have a PM Program and
+
23
'tha t is inherent in the Davis-Besse maintenance.
24 management. program.
Those~ PMs which
' ~are identified
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by'those cognizant engineers, the frequency of which l
2 is determined by the engineer utilizing vendor-3 supplied instruction manuals.
These PMs are L
4
' electronically scheduled.
If it is a monthly PM, 5
the computer system will generate that particular p
6 maintenance workLorder, it is the same one each time, 7
on a monthly basis.
That will be used by the 8
planner-in the snop to conduct tha t preventive 9
maintenance, so.there is a PM Program, periodic i
10 tests, surveillance. tests, and performance tests.
11 MR.: BEARD:-
Ernie, could I interrupt?-
12 MR.
ROSSI:
Sure.
i.
! ()
'13 MR.
BEARD In this area of your va rious n.
14 programs of testing, have you as a ~ plant manager.or i
15 has the plant ma na_g e r prior to your coming on the~
16 scene specifically asked one of these groups tha t 17
.are under your control' to review the' licensing basis 18 o f.. t he plant FSAR to d e t e r m'i n e that your testing is.
19 adequa te to demonstrate that the equipment can 20 perform in all the various plant conditions, modes, 21 and things like this that are described in your 22 licensing documents?.
23 MR.-QUENNOZ:
We'are in the process in the 24 PSPfprogram of: developing a0 con figura tion management
,q L) '-
ACE PhuBRAL-REPORTERS INC.
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program itself, which part of which will be to get a
%)
2 handle on the design basis of the facility.
We J
recognize we have problems in this a rea and we are 4
no different from any plant in the nation in that 5
respect.
I somewhat feel that we are ahead of most 6
plants because it has been identified to us by the 7
NRC and by our own people and we have made a 8
preliminary effort, but we are in the process of 9
making a very structured effort.
We have for the 10 PEP program e s ta blis he d a USAR review committee of 11 very senior people within the company who are doing 12 a system-by-system review of the USAR who flag the
[)
13 design basis requirements and also to identify v
14 where the USAR specifically describes procedural 15 requirements so that they won't get changed, and 16 this commi t te e has been very formative and 17 innova tive in developing the third guidelines and 18 thuy have on a trial basis completed a review of the 19 high-pressure injection system.
So we'are on our 20 way.
We have had concerns in this area and we are 21 addressing them.
22 MR.
BEARD:
I gather from wha t you say, 23 Steve, tha t this PEP prog ra m, PEP 24 MR. QUENNOZ:
Performance enhancement g
V ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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program.
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2 MR.
BBARD:
This is something tha t has 3
been initiateu relatively recently, within the last 4
year, something like tha t?
5 MR. QUENNoz:
I would want to say two 6
years old.
It is a regula tory improvement program.
7 One of the main reasons why it was instituted was to 8
improve our performance based upon the region's 9
assessment of our operations.
10 MR.
DEARD:
I ga ther from your earlier 11 comment that this committoo has completed at least 12 some initial phase of their work on the high-
[)
13 pressure injection system.
Have they completed a
U 14 similar initial phase of work on any other plant 15 systems?
16 MR. Q U E N tl O Z :
No, they will do each of 17 those in a uories again.
18 MR.
BEARD:
I am just trying to got a fool 19 for where they were.
Tha t is all.
20 MR. ROSSI:
Do you have anything more you 21 want to add on this subject?
Unless do you, I 22 think I am ready to bring it to a close.
If you 23 have anything more tha t you think is portinent on 24 this ma i n te na nce or ma in tenance engineering pq G
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1 interface, you know, why don't you add it?
I don't v
2 know tha t ' I have any more specific questions.
i 3
MR. QUENNOZ:
Wo do have processes which l
4 will help us flag design problems, maintenance 5
problems.
W e' do have a nuclear reliability group l
6 who reviews.the MWO, MPRDS, call it a checklist tha t i
7 supplies inputs to the NPRES system, and they are
~
8 also charged with reviewing plant ope ra tions with 4
i
.9 re spe c t. to re li~a bili ty o f the components, identify
.i i
10 po te n tia l design problems.
We have a good con tac t i
11
.with engineering.
t 12 Wo-writo facility change requests, which
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13 is-our vehicle to implement or reques t, design I
14 changes, modifications facility.
L a
15 MR. ROSSI:
this L nuclea r'. ro lla bili ty group, l
16 that is.under the plan t manage r again?
[
17
~MR.
QUENNOZ:
No, sir.
Tha t is under the
{
l 18 right n o w.. i t is-under the engineering, nuclear 19 engineering director.-
j'
~ 20 MR. ROSSI:
.Is tha t undor f tho is tha t
[
21 what you called the engineering ~ director before?
22 MR. QUENH0Z:
Yes.
r i
l.
- 23 MR. ROSSI:
So the. nuclear rollability reviews'tho'NPRDS: system and revi'ews.pla n t
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ope ra tions for design changes is under the O
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engineering director?
3 MR. QUSNNOZ:
We also have a nuclear 4
safety department which gets involved in identifying S
problems in the plant that involve nuclear safety, 6
and they typically champion problems tha t may be of 7
a design nature.
8 HR. ROSSI:
This nuclear sa f e ty group is 9
again under the engineering director or under the 10
. plant manager?
11 MR. QUENNOZ:
The nuclear sa f e ty group i
12 reports to the nuclear licensing'and sa f e ty director.
(')'
13 MR.
ROSSI:
Now is he under the u
14 engineering directcr or plant manager or is he t
15 MR. QUENNOZ:
He is his own director, at 16 the director level.
17 MR.
BEARD:
Did you have anything more you 18 wanted to add on this subject of design or 19 maintenance?
20 MR. QUENNOZ:
Yes, I would like to say 21 when they do submit f a cili ty change requests, there 22 are design review meetings which help identify where 23 the s ta tion is coming trom, help determine wha t the 24 possible solutions could be, and help identify 7-(_/
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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whether it is a ma in tenance problem or a true design b-2 problem.
3 MR. DEAdD:
I have two. general questions 1 4
would like to close out-with.
These are not 5
specitically related to the event, and I think tha t
~
~ it is a ppropria te to-ask Bill.
6 maybe i
j 7
Bill, the ope ra tors a nd the shift supers c
8 and things like this report-directly or indirectly.
I 9
to you?
' 10 MR. O ' C O N il O R :
Yes, sir.
11 MR.
BEARD:
We are doing a'tactfinding for 1
12 this event at Davis-Besse in a more structured way
- O 23 ta a
- aev "o
e i = ca e==t-o=
or t"-
v tae t 14 we doing this is we a re' using?a _cour t repor te r.
I 15 would be very intorested in.your comments reflecting 10 your personal' opinion and the opinions of other-i f
17 operators you have talked with and-whatnot as'to i
l,.
18
- whether or not the presence of a court' reporter has 19 significantly hampered the exchange of inf orma tion,
~
20
-ha s been basicallyineutral, oc has improved either e
' 21 the ' quality or.quantitycot the.-in f orma tion tha t wo 1
=2 2 have been a ble to ' ob ta in' in.this effort.
23
.MR.
.W I T il E R E L L For the record, I. d o n '. t j-24 thinR that either of you have had an opportunity.to f','
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l review your transcripts yet, right?
So there may be s
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some' question as to the accuracy of the transcript 3
after they have an opportunity to read it.
4 4
MR.
BEARD:
Right, I was thinking more of 5
the intangible effect on the people, Bill, your 6
operators.
7 MR. O'CONNOR:
My personal opinion, it has 8
not significantly at "3cted any inf orma tion exchange 9
from me in the one operator session tha t I witnessed 10 with Steve Feasel on his initial one, I do not feel 11 tha t it significantly ha mpe re d his in f orma tion 12 exchange, and in talking to the other ope ra to rs,. 1 I\\
13 get the same feeling.
O 14 However, I do fool that it did put some 15 undue stress upon them tha t if we were all just 16 sitting in a room talking, tha t they wouldn' t have 17 had that extra little feeling on their insides tha t 18 there was some level of stress above wha t is normal.
19 In other words, had you come in and set us all in a 20 room and discussed the incident with the exact same 21 questions tha t you gave without the repo r te r, I feel 22 tha t they would have felt a little more at ease than 23 with a court reporter present.
24 MR.
BEARD 1 guuss I don't want to go
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ACE FEDERAh HEPORTERS INC.
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.into it, but the same question I guess could be
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2 asked =about the presence of attorneys, legal counsel.
-3 I know I personally was surprised to arrive here and 4
find the attorneys to greet us for your.ompany.
I 5
guess tha t is the nature of the situation we are in.
6 Going on from there, the last question I 7
would like to throw out is tha t for each'of you, is a
there anything that you feel tha t we ought to'know 9
in terms of determining.the facts and causes of this 10 event tha t you would like to share with us or 11 anything else t ha t maybe is-no t. rela ted to that, 12 maybe more general, that you would like to tell us?
{)
13
~ 1 'have always asked.that at the end'of-every 14 interview..
If you'would prefer to ask.the a t torneys 15 to be absent, we ca n _a rrange' tha t, if tha t is your 16 preference.
17 MR. O'CONNOR:
The only thing I would ~1ike 18 to reemphasize is tha t I know a lot of people that 1
19 are not maybe technically c ompe ten t' o r wha teve r wili
. 20 get to see these ta pe s and the entire report, and a 21 lot of people in Washington, such as !!ouse1of 22 Represen ta tive s people and senators, may not i
23 unde rs ta nd the full impact of all these proceedings 24 and discussions, and I would just ha te to see the s
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pendulum start swinging to require rigorous ope ra tor C'1 k/
2 procedural requirements such tha t there is no 3
latitude for the ope ra tors.
4 I brought this up a few minutes ago, and 1 5
feel strongly about it, tha t we would do more damage 6
to nuclear power or put in extra faults by having 7
that tone coue out of this, that the ope ra tors d
didn't exactly follow their procedures, and had they 9
done tha t, everything would have been all be t te r.
10 These are complex units.
There is no one 11 procedure tha t can be written for every case.
I 12 will s ta nd our reactor trip procedure, our EP 120201,
(])
13 against anybody's in the industry.
I am confident 14 t ha t it will solve the problems tha t would occur in 15 our s ta tion under all the events, and I am confident 16 that the operators will follow that procedure and wo 17 won't do core damage.
But I think that that could 18 get squashed, if you will, if people feel operators 19 didn' t - f ollow their job and they are suddenly told 20 to blindly follow everything and don't think.
21 M R.- ROSSI:
Did the operators have 22 procedures telling them wha t to do when they went to 23 the a ux ilia ry f eedwa te r pump rooms. a nd when they 24 went to the valves and when they put the s ta r tup 7,
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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feedpump in' service, or was tha t primarily trainingt
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.2 MR. O'CONNORt:
That was primarily training.
1 3
They know how to start the auxiliary Icedpumps.
I 4
4 They know.how to - s ta r t a pump.
3 They may have had a s ta r tup feedpump 6
checklist with them, I don't know, but I know tha t 7
all.ot the what we call fully qualified equipment 8
operators can go down and reset trip throttle valvon J
9 on startup feedpumps and open motor opera ted valves 1
10 m nually.
They demons tra ted tha t they did it in a 1
11 very'short period of time and I feel should.be 12 commendod over those actions.-
'I am.not sure whether
()
13 you g o t' a chance to walk through where they were in 4
14 thar eriod of time, but, you know, to try and
]
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.a te those efforts, their training played a key 16 role in this.
They knew wha t to'do.
They knew i
- 17 where to go without having to be told step br step I
18 to go down push the lever down, handcrank the valvo 19 open.
They know that.
They know where.the valve 2
20 was.
Tha t should be pointed out.
i e
1 21 MR. BEARD:
We havo re traced pre tty muc h-22 the steps, and I a ppre cia te wha t ~ you are saying.
2J Stevo, did you-have comments or wa s k
t 4
24 tha t the end of your comments?
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MR. O'CONNOR:
Yes, sir.
ry.
2 MR. QUENNOZ:
I had one comment, because 3
I know that there has been some concern over the 4
notification process, the fact tha t we were in a 5
site emergency and did not declare i t.
The shitt 6
. supervisor and the ope ra ting shift was busy with the 7
plant.
8 in fact, they were in our procedure which 9
requires them to ta ke actions to place the plant in.
10 a sate condition and then look in the EAL, emergency 11 action levels.
I Know tha t the NRC is struggling 12 with the concept ot the shitt engineer, and I I^)
13 think I hope tha t you can see from the sctions of U
14 the opera tors tha t they are well qualified and they 15 have the necessary knowledge and expurience to 16 handle problems, and if there is some concern about 17 adding additional personnel on shift to handle some 18 of these problems, I certainly hope they do it in 19 the right manner by adding additional senior reactor
{
20 ope ra tors to the shifts.
21 MR. DEARD:
Wha t purpose would the senior I
22
. reactor operator servo, or are you saying in 23 contrast to shift engineers?
24 MR. QUENNOZ:
In contrast to adding, say, f-L.i ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
(202) 347-J700
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an additional emergency planning individual who (D
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2 would be assigned to review the EAL and make sure 3
th9 no ti fica tion is made irrespective of plant 4
ope ra tion problems.
You can see tha t thero are a S
number of responsibilities that they have, as far as 6
getting into their procedures and making the 7
emergency plan u ts ti f i ca tion.
Somebody standing back 8
and supervising, somebody handling the maintenance
')
people tha t are coming in and want to help, you just 10 can't let them run off without direction, and there 11 has got to be a senior level person tha t is also 12 providing interface with corpo ra te management and
( );
13 all 'those responsibilities a re assumud by the shift 14 supervisor, and my concern is tha t if we do add 1S additional people, tha t they be the right type, they 16 be senior reactor ope ra tors.
17 MR. BEARD:
Thank you.
Tha t is a good 18 obse rva tion.
19 MR. ROSSI:
1 think we are finished then.
20 MR. BEARD:
I would like to thank both of 21 you for a good interview.
22 MR. ROSSI:
Thank you very much, we 23 a pprecia te talking with you.
24 7,
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L._j' ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS INC.
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CERTIFICATE I
~
l 2
L I,
celeste C.
Da wle y, a Registered t
3 Professional Re po r te r a nd N o'ta ry Public in and for 4
the S ta te of Ohio, do hereby cor,tify tha t I took the 5
proceedings and thatEthe foregoing transcript of j
6 such proceedings is a full, true and correct 7
transcript of my atenotypy notes as so taken.
8 I do further certify tha t - 1 was called 9
there in the capacity of a Court Reporter, and am i
10 not-otherwise interested in'this proceeding.
11
.IN-WITNESS WHEREOF, I' have hereunto s e t-my
+
12
- hand and affixed my seal of office at Columbus, Ohio, 13 on this Sk day'of h
1985.
'Q 0
14 15 CELESTE C.
DAWLEY, RPR'g id
-16 Notary,Public in a nd f oW 'the S ta te of O h i o.'
17 s
la My Commission. expires August 2S,.1987.,
19 c
20 21 i
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I'
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i-DIRECTIONS'FOR MAKING CORRECTIONS If you have any corrections that you wish to make on your transcript, please do so on the following page in the following fashion:
Indicate the page of the correction, I
the line number, and then the change to be made and the reason for making i
the change.
Date and sign all correc-tion pages that correspond with your i
transcript.
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