ML20129B084
| ML20129B084 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 06/14/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290067 | |
| Download: ML20129B084 (113) | |
Text
,
m 60 - 3 4(e 1
1 BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE
.2 OF THE NULCEAR' REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 RE:
~
5 Davis-Bosse event t
6 of June 9,
1985 7-8
.P R O C E E D 1 N G S 9
10 Proceedings before the. Nuclear Regulatory 11 Commission Fact Finding. Task Force in regard to the
'12
-atorementioned event,. held at the Davis-Besse 13
'Nulcear Plant, Oak Harbor, Ohio, commencing on 14
-Friday, June 14, 1985, at 2:53 o' clock p.m.
15 3
16' 17 18
.19 20
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21 22 23 8507290067 850614 PDR ADOCK 05000346 T
PDR RUNFOLA'&-ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
- COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
.)
2 1
PRESENT:
.-^)
LJ 2
Wayne D.
Shafer (NRC-RIII) 3 Stephen G.
Burns (NRC OELD) 4 Ted J.
Myers (TED-Nuclear Safety and 5
Licensing Director) 6 William C.
Rowles (TED) 7 Terry D.
Murray (TED-Assistant Vice-President 8
of Nuclear Operations) 9 John K.
Wood (TED-Fac. Engrg. Gen. Supr.)
10 Steve G.
Wideman (TED-Senior Licensing 11 Specialist) 12 I.
Nick JacKiw (NRC-RIII) 13 Lstry A.
Grime (TED-Nuclear Safety Manger) 14 Dennis Mominee (TED-QA Superivsor) 15 Dernard R.
Beyer (TED-Nuclear Projects 16 Director) 17 James Helle (TED-Director of Nuclear Facility 18 Engineering) 19 James W.
Long (TED-Electrical Maintenance) 20 Masoud Bajestani (TED-Nuclear Facility 21 Engineer) 22 Wayne D.
Lanning (NRC) 23 T.
Larry Bell (US NRC).
[vb 24 Ernie Rossi (US NRC)
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l-PRESENT
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J.
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Beard (NRC) r
~3 Neal Bonner (TED-Lead Electrical Maintenance 4
- Supply Eingineer) 5 Don Kosloff (NRC-RIII) 6 7
8 9
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R U N F O L A 4-ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED ~ TRANSCRIPTION
4 1
INDEX
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'2 Exnibit No.
-Page No.
I 1
guidelines 6
i L
.3 1.
action plans 41
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t 6
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18 19
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2 P R O C E E D I N G S 3
4 MR. ROSSI:
We are on the record then.
I 5
understand that tne licensee has asked for this 6
meeting to talk about some of the equipment that's 7
on the quarantine list and their plan for starting 8
to work on that equipment in such a way that we know 9
what the as-found condition is and systematically 10 work-towards finding out what the root cause of any 11 problems are with tha t equipment.
12 So at that point at-this point let me turn (3
kJ 13 it over to Toledo Edison to begin the discussion.
14 MR. WOOD:
Okay.
What we had intended to f
15 cover in this setting was to talk generically about 16 our approach that we were using for trouble shooting 17 and performin~g investigative actions and then go 18 through the first item that we wish to get 19 concurrence on, that being the analysia'of valves AF 20 599 and 608.
21 So at this point I will pass around a 22 handout which goes through guidelines tha t we are 23 establishing for our people.
rn( )
24 Jim Helle will discuss the guidelines and RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
~_...
4 6
I give you our basic approach as to how we are dealing 2
with these items, and it may be well at this time to 3
go around the room and just introduce the people 4
that we'have prenant so tha t you will know what 5
their activities are in the organization.
6 MR.
BURNS:
Could we have a copy of the 7
handout for the reporter.
And will you mark that as 8
Exnibit 1 and include it in the back of the 9
transcript.
10 11 Thereupon, Exhibit No. 1 12 was marked for purposes 13 or identification.
J d
14 15 MR.
BEARD:
What was.the gentleman's name 16.
you-said would be speaking.
17 MR. WOOD:
Jim Helle, H-e-1-1-e.
t 18' MR. H2LLE:
John, did you want to go 19 through the introduction before I proceed..
20 MR. WOOD:
I think that would be 21 appropriate.
I will start.
22 John Wood,=facilityLengineering; general 23 supervisor.
{)
24 MR. WIDEMAN:
Steve Wideman, senior k
RUNFOLA.& ASSOCIATES (614)445'-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION y
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licensing specialist.
,f-
-2 MR. JACKIW:
Nick Jackiw, NRC Region III.
3 MR. GRIME:
Larry Grime, nuclear safety 4
manager.
5 MR. MOMINEE:
Dennis Mominee, QA 6
supervisor.
7 MR. BEYER:
Bernie-Bayer, nuclear projects 8
director.
9 MR. HELLE:
Jim Helle,. director of nuclear 10 facility engineering.
11 MR.-LONG:
Jim Long, electrica'l 12 maintenanco.
O 13 MR.
BAJESTANI:
Masoud Bajestani, 14 electrical and-control' system engineering downtown.
15 MR. ROSSI:
'NRC team leader.
16 MR. BEARD:
I am J.
T.
Beard, and I am on 17 the NRC Fact Finding Team.
18 MR. SHAFER:
Wayne Shafer, Region III.
19
.MR.
BURNS:
Steve Burns, :I am an attorney 20 in NRC office of the executive-legal director.
21 MR. ROWLES:
- Bill Rowles, assistant to 22 the vice-president nuclear.
23 MR. MYERS:
Ted Myers, safety and
(
24-licensing director.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION
~
8 1
MR. MURRAY:
Terry Murray, assistant 2
vice-president nuclear operations.
3 MR. HELLE:
Okay.
I will proceed.
As we 4
foresee it to develop our approach to developing the i
5 action plans and performing the investigative worx 6
to define the root causes for the various problems 7
that we had with our systems and equipment here, we 8
very quickly realized there is a special nature to 9
. this work.
10
'I t is a little-extraordinary because of fil the large number of pieces of equipment found, and' 12 it is very clear that we have got to be careful in O
kJ 13 preserving. evidence relating to equipment failures 14 and then proceeding in a very logical manner.
15 We felt it was necessary to supplemant our 16 normal maintenance work order program, which is the 17 major program that we are going to be using for 18-conducting-work'in the field on equipment.
19-It will be AD 1844 for your reference, but 20 in this generic-letter or this guidance memo tha t 21
.has been written on the subject of guidelines for 22 trouble shooting and ~ performing investigative worx 23 it2s been directed to all of the action item lead
.( )
24 individuals, these-are people who have been assigned
~
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
9 1
specific responsibilities for analyzing problems in csb 2
specific areas by John Wood, who is our project 3
manager for this entire analytical program and 4
recovery.
5 Some of the things that we try to cover in 6
here ist first or all, we stated tnat our work will 7
be covered by MWO's.
8 Any time plant people or any other people 9
go out into the plant begin to work with equipment, 10 it is going to be covered by an MWO, under the 11 administrative procedures and provisions identified 12 in tha t procedure in addition to this guidance es
(
)
13 memorandum.
14 In addition we nave identified as one of 15 the provisions nere is that we are going to handle 16 those MWO's for inspections and investigative work 17 as nuclear safety rela ted whetner they are or are 18 not, which means that if we are looking at turbine 19 bypass valied, whica I believe is not nuclear safety 20 related, we would still employ those same type of 21 controls.
22 The other thing that's unique in this 23 situation here is tnat we have established a lead
()
24 individual who may be a person in engineering and-RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i
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because he has corporate responsibility for j
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resolving the plans, we want to put him in a special 3
position of control as we proceed with the 4
investigative work.
5 So you will see that the provisions of 6
this letter identify that in developing the 7
maintenance work orders and proceeding with the work, 8
the lead in
---the assigned lead individual is 9
contacted when work proceeds, when-something is 10' discovered and there is a hold point established at 11 any point in time.we~ feel we have discovered 12 something tnat may explain or,is out of the ordinary.
('~>)
13 We want to very clearly document the 14 as-found condition.
Tha t's one of the first 15' elements of this program.
And itt is' included 11n 16 nere.
17 We do not want to lose'any-relevant 18 information by not carefully planning, documenting 19
.the sequence and:the-obseevations throughout the 20
. investigative worx.
21 I believe tnat tha t's really'the full 2 2 --
essence.
Again, in supplemental instruction to our 23 normal maintenance work order procedure it puts our
.()
24 lead assigned' responsible individual ~in a key
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1 position in terms of all'the work out there.
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It documents the as-found condition, and 3
it places a hold in a continuing review by.our lead.
4 individual at any particular time something is l
5 discovered and then we evaluate the discovered 6
information,-and we may want to regroup and 7
reconsider the action plans that we have developed 8'
up.to that point in time to discover that 9
information.
10 Now tha t's the general.
Tha t's the 11-general philosophy.
You will see that there.is a 12 series of steps in here that identify more 13 specifically each of the provisions of this gu'idanco 14 memorandum, but I think they essentially capture and 15 further define what I have outlined as being a 16 general philosophy.
17 Now, I could possibly go over.each of the i
18
' items if that would be something that.you would want-e 19-for the record-or I would stand to address any l
20 questions that might come up.
21 MR.-BEARD:
Well, I think that, Jim, the 22 obvious thing to me is you just handed us this piece 23 of paper, and it is three pages long, and we haven't
()
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24' had a chance to read it'yet.
RUliFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
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l' It seems to me you are either going to 1
2 have to give us a little time to read it and digest 3
it or you may choose to speak about what it says in 4
more detail.
5 MR. HELLE:
Okay.
Why don't I go.through
~
6 it.
The guidance memo is two pages.
I want to 7
speak to that.
I' don't know what got-attached to 8
page number three.
It is equipment. freeze.
4 9
MR. WOOD It is equipment freeze list.
10 MR. HELLE:
The guidance memorandum is l
11
.really the two sheet memo.
i 3
12 Again, the essence' of the memo, I just 13 simply lead.into'it and ~ say that we.f eel' ~ tha t it is 14 very important to proceed in a' methodical and 15 reasonable way in this fact finding effort'and to 16 avoid any loss of information or the destruction of 17
. relevant information w e. h a v e' -outlined the following 18~
steps to be implemented.
4 4
19 The first.one, all MWO?s relating to the l
6-9 trip shall be. handled as nuclear' safety related.
20 2 11
.Second' point,. trouble. shooting and repair
'22
.shall be' accomplished on' separate MWO's.
I 23
_MR.-BEARD:
.The repair would be,.in other
_( )'
24 words, : wha t you are saying is that the' trouble.
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work order and then there would be a separate' work L
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order"for any readjustments or corrective actions?
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MR. II E L L S :
That's correct.
We would 5
write ~the maintenance work order to'do the
'6 investigative. trouble shooting worn and then the
-7.
follow on, any follow on work after that point in
.ti time would be addressed by a separate item.
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9 MR. BEARD:
I assume that along that line f~
10-the corrective actions-would 'come.back to us in 11 terms of.some information as to what you think the
- 12
. cause was and corrective actions 13
'MR.
HELLE:
Well.
{-
14 1MR. BEARD:'
In-otherJwords,.I am.trying to
[
13 get into the area at what time: would the;second work-16'
' order f or-the corrective : actions be initiated and
- 17 work on that start.
I 18 MR. HELLE:
It would certainly be after F
- 19:
the. investigative work is concluded." 1All of the r
20 work, letz me say it'that way, all of the work is 2
21
. covered.by the action plans, which are going to be, i
22
' submitted, andLas.long as we are proceeding.with.
i _that. action. plan and you~ approve-it,: we are-going to
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24' proceed with that work.
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incorporated, you Know, initially in the plana you 3
look at.
So.once we discover something that leads
'4 to repair or corrective actions, there will be 5
another recycle of an action plan or.a work plan to 6
address that problem.
7 MR. MYERS:
For concurrence.
8 MR. ROSSI:
You are going to_give us an 9
action plan for each piece of work on each component.
'10 MR. HELLE:
That's'the way we were 11 proceeding right now.
Today we are going to 12 conclude this general session by giving you_a 13 specific action plan relating to the_ auxiliary feed 14 AF 599 and 608.
15 It will identify.very specifically what we
~
16 planned to do_in terms of the investigative work.-
17 Now, if at any point in time we discover'something, 18 it goes on hold and then we begin to-digest that 19 information.
Any time we are outside of what we 20 preplan, _ we will regroup-and redevelop that.
i 21 MR. BEARD:
I guess part of my concern lI 22 was trying to getf at was I think that the' fact 23 finding team does not=want to.necessarily~ approve
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24 all the corrective actions because ouricharter is RUNFOLA &' ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
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.and determine.then I think that before you proceed
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6 with corrective: actions be they only' readjustments i
'7 that we would like to haar back what you found-as a 4
8 root cause before some' corrective action t a'K e s place.
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MR. HELLE: _
I believe.tha t's incorporated 10 in our program right now because again we plan only i
.1 11 to" proceed to the extent that our action-plans that 12 we n e g o tia te. wi th' you are approved.
That's where we
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investigative point, to trouble shoot.
15 MR. BEARD:
. I f tha t'sEyour. intent) I can 16 accept that.
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17 MR. SHAFER:
We are; going to get a copy.of a
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.18 the action plan,.and I take it that's: going to be.my 19 officiai'nutificatiod.that.fou intend to do~certain
[20 work a c ti vi tie s ;. i s. tha't'
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21 MR. WOOD: : W e l'1, it would'be a? result =of a V
'2 2 -
~musting such.es this where we would concur that-we (s
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would go out and d'o work.: ;We would-then be; t
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preparing MWO's which~woul'd then be the-formal J
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release in the field as all of our work is so you
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will be aware as a result of a meeting' such as this 3
that we plan on doing that work, and we can plug you 4
in to that cycle in any shape that you desire.
-5.
MR. SHAFER:
I need to have adequate 6
notification, and I guess we have to maybe sit down 7
and caucus just what work activities you feel and we 8
feel are appropriate to monitor.
5F MR. ROSSI:
I agree that thwre may be a 10 point after we have gone through this'where we will 11 need to caucus amongst ourselves to decide, you know, i
12 like whether we want to -be-- involved in approving 13 each separate stage or what because'Lt sounds like 14 what you have got now is y o u r
- e. after t:h e trouble 15-shooting you are going to come bact ~ to us and I 16 don't.know that we want to-be in the position of 4
17 approving the next step.
18 I mean, we want to make sure that1we have 13
.a plan where we get the root cause and find'out'what 20 was wrong without being involved in aach and every 2 11 step, I believe.
22 MR. SHAFER:
This, indeed, this identifies 23-the activities tha t -~ the lead individuals will take,
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b't~if I were-a leadfindividual,.I would fee 1 free 24-u
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2 maintenance work activitios and, in fact, I would 3
even feel free to ship things.on site as long as I
'4 had the facility engineer and quality engineering 5
approval, and I don't think that's what we are 6
looking for.
7 MR. HELLE:
Wayne, this here only covers 8
tne trouble shooting and-investigative.
It doesn't 9
include any corrective action or repair.
10 I think'this will become clear as wa are 11 able to present to you one of.the action plans.
You 12 will see how far we plan to. carry the work in that 13'
' action plan, and it is not where you are concerned i
14 about.
15 MR. SHAFER:
You said shut up very nicely.
16 MR. HELLE:
I didn't say that.
I think it 17 will-evolve for you though, and you will see that 18 you-will be plugged in, and this is not a license
- 19 for the responsible individual to do anything more 20 than trouble shoot and then find something and hold
-21 right~there if it explains the problem that we have t
'22 and he is documenting.this all along so it has been
'23 made perfectly clear co us that we feel tha t's the l]
.24 way you want it to operate.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION-
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You wanted to look at the action plans,
~d 2
the approach that we are going to take to this and 3
when we present that to you, I think that you will 4
see that we are pretty tightly controlled in terms 5
of the way we are proceeding with the work.
6 MR. SHAFER:
Why don't we go on.
7 MR. MYERS:
One caution as we go through 8
this, our understanding is we have to agree in 9
whichever manner we come up with, after this example 10 I think is a good time, how that complies with the 11 requirements of the confirmatory action letter, 12 which does tie the team into concurrence with
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13 corrective actions.
14 So however I heard what you said, and it 15 may require some square peg round hole fitting here 16 to actually come up with what ~ we have agreed with 17 the region to produce or maybe we can modify that.
18 MR.
BEARD:
Recognize we are at an 19 interface here, Ted, and we have to caucus amongst 20 ourselves, but my personal opinion is that we don't 21 want, as a team, to approve any specific corrective 22 actions as much as we want no corrective actions-23 taking place until we have had presented to us what rb I
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1 into a situation with a limitorque valve where M
2 people think here is the problem, and they go out 3
and adjust it before we agree and.probably would 4
want some follow-up investigation maybe confirmatory
.5 nature to-make sure that we can agree that that was 6
the cause.
7 That was the only thing I thinK this team 8
is interested in and once you get beyond that I 9
think the~ approval of specific corrective actions is l
i 10 primarily-the responsibility of Region III.
11 MR. MYERS:
1 understand your concerns; 12 however, we do have have on the-books certain words 13 that we must either have to change or comply with.
l 14 MR. SHAPER:
I realize that, and I just i
i 15 want to make very sure that we are all communicating 16 because I am a little upset that your chief 1
17-
. executive officer has complained that we are 18 impeding your maintenance repair work-effort.
.19 I don't believe tha t's true.-
And-I want
-20 to make'certain that we minimize the impact-that are 21
.might have in your trying to achieve some of these 22 maintenance work activities.
23 MR. HELLE:
Should I carry-on here.
I l ()
24 think we are in agreement with you.
l RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 l-COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
20 1
MR. WOOD:
Do you'want to wait for Ernie.
~
2 MR.
BEARD:
No, I think we can go ahead.
3 MR. HELLE:
Okay.
The third point, MWO's 4
are to be approved by the action item-lead 5
individual and reviewed by QC prior to 6
implementation.
7 It is the lead individual's responsibility 8
to assure that the investigative actions are 9
~ appropriate, sufficient and.well defined.
1
~10 Point number four 11 MR. SHAFER:
.Did you scratch a sentence
- 12 '
out of there?
O 13 MR. HELLE:
No, the copy of the MWO's go 14 to Dennis Mominee.
I was_just trying to capture the j
'15 essence of that ~ r'ight there.
4 16 MR. BEARD:
Are you-finisned with number 17 three?
18 MR. HELLE:
Right.
19 MR. BEARD:
It seems.to me a very 20 important aspect of the investigation is not covered f
21 by the words in this particular paragraph, _and that 22 is the lead individual's responsibilities.
23 This is his charter statement, so to. speak.
()
24 At least I read it as being a charter s ta temen t.
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~1 is not only important-that-he designs investigative 4
21 actions that are a ppropria te, sufficient and well 3
defined.
I think it is equally important that those
-4 actions are-well developed and the findings are well 5
~ developed.
6 MR. IIELLE:
Okay.
.I think, again, as you 7
see our action plans that we are giving to the lead 8
individuals, I mean, that are being developed and j
9 his instruction to follow on ~where the rest of these 10 steps, tnat will'all be-well developed.
Everything
.11 will be well planned and documented in the course of i
12 that.
's 13.
MR. WOOD:
I think there are ~ other s o v e r a'l 14 points that alluded to documen ta tion.
Maybe if I 15 could if I could go-through all of them, I thinx 16 you will capture the documentation element of here
- 17 that evolves from the steps and then possibly come 18 back'and' address the questions..
19 MR. HELLE:
Toint_ numb)r four, only tnose 20 MWO's approved ~ by the action item lead-individual 21 and QCymay be worked on any of the frozan systems 22 identitied on the a tta cited lis t.
Okay.
Tna t's 23 where the attached list came from.
( )._
i 24 Point numberEfive, assure that only i
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l' current' drawings and controlled vendor-manuals are 2'. : used for the work.
3 Point number six, consider the need for 1
4 vendor represen ta tives.
Vendor representatives 5
should be used to a s s i's t in' trouble shooting 11
\\
'6 appropriate expertise'is not available in nouse.
7 The reps will need to be given specific 8
guidance for what they are and are not to do.
9 Vendor _ representatives must follow the guidelines o f.
~
this memorandum.
10 l-l
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Point number seven, the MWO must clearly e
12 documsnt tne' scope, affected equipment, and the i
13 desired objective of the investigative activity.
t 14 MR. BEARD:
Sounds like you are.right, i
~get furtherlinto - this,.some of the 15 that when we
.16 ~
points we raised are coming.
17 MR. HELLE:
Point number eight, the
^
18 sequence of activities need to be ~ documented on the 19i MWO-or procedures'apecifiedlin the MWO.
If the t
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' sequence cannot.be determined prior _to the activity-4 1
'21
-being' performed, define'the sequence'and provide a 22.
check.off for eacn step.;
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1 define the fundamental sequence to be taken and 2
document each step as it is performed.
3 MR. WOOD:
Jim, I thinX you inserted a not t
4
'in the second sentence that is not here.
5 MR. ROSSI:
It may,have found its way on 6
to the transcript.
7-MR. WOOD:
And it is not intended to be 8
there either.
9 MR. BEARD:
How about if~you reread.
10 MR.'ROSSI:
Read'_ number eight again.
~11
'MR.
HELLE:
I'll reread eight.
The 12 sequence of activities needs to be documented..on the 13 MWO or procedures specified in the MWO..
If the
. 14 sequence can be determined prior to the activity 15' being performed,- define tha tL sequence and provide a
' 16 check off for each step.
. 17 If the' desired sequence cannot be:
18 determined previous to the activity, gas a minimum, l
- 19.
define the fundamental sequence to be taken and 20
- document-each specific step as it is performed.
I 21 Point number nine, document on'the MWO all.
22 as-found conditions.
Visual inspect and document t
23 any missing, loose or damaged components, note
.( )
24
' positions (open, closed, up, down, et cetera)
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abnormal ordinary environmental conditions, 2
operation of cooling devices, water leaks, oil leaks, 3
loose fittings, cracks, evidence of overheating or 4
wa te r damage, cleanliness, bent tubing, fluid levels, 5
et cetera.
1 6
Describe the overall condition or 7
appearance.
Whenever possible use photographs to 8
document the as-found. conditions.
When considered 9
necessary,-retain a sample of fluids or their.
l 10 residue for further analysis.
11 MR. BEARD On this item that you just
-12 read, J i m,'- it sounds like i tcis _ a long list there.of:
)
i 13' note positions, et cetera, et cetera,'but it seems:
1 l-i
'14 like.it is oriented in the mechanical area, -highly
.15-in the seenanical area, and its thrust-of it.
j 2
[
'16 It.seems toine that you; would 1want to -add.
i 17 in here tne kinds of_ things that.would be i
l 18 appropriate-to electronics types of7 feed such as i
19 feed steam rupture system'where I ~believe you would' 20-want to document those settings that of things,- 'for 21
~ example, if a knob is set to a certain fourth count-l 22 on-it or whatever, set p'oints and adjustments 1and J
23 th'ing s 'of that nature and-other electronica related-i ()
2 4 --
items _rather than the mechanical items.
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1 MR.
ROSSI:
That would be primarily out of U
2 tolerance adjustments.
3 MR.
BEARD:
What I had in mind, maybe you 4
are saying other things, I am saying 11 you go to an 5
. electronic cabinat that has Knobs on the front of it 6
tnat nas scales, that type of an as-found adjustment 7
is not well described in the present version of 8
number nine.
9 And I am saying that I think you would 10 want to amend that number nine to suggest to the 11 lead individuals that knob setting, et cetera, et 12 cetera, in other words, items tha t would be (h
\\>
13 appropriate for ins trumen ta tion and control and 14 safety related electronic equipment.
15 MR. HELLS:
Switches on and off, 16 indicating I think you are right.
The people 17 that were sitting around developing this were 18 primarily mechanical engineering people so you see 19 that flavor.
20 MR. ROSSI:
Even your valves that you want 21 to work on or trouble shoot first are going-to have 22 torque switches and limit switches and that Kind of 23 tning and tha t could very well be in a key in the
()
24 issue so that really needs to go on here as an RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION f
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ad'endum.
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MR. MYERS:
Could I propose in tront of et 3
cetera, switch settings,-instrument settings,
-4 anything else?
5 MR. WOOD:
Set points.
i
)
6:
MR. GRIME:
Set points.
l 7
MR.
BEARD:-
I thinx that adequately 4
8 addresses the point I raised.
'I guess the paper 9
amended with those few words.
10' MR. HSLLE:
I think we can agree to that.
11 Oxay.
i 12
' Point number ten, when discrepancies are.
4 13 noted during the investigation, stop-worx and notify
'14 the: action item lead individual.
Document the 15 deficiency.
The lead individual must sign off on e
le the discrepancy prior to continuing the L
17 investigation.
i 18 Item number eleven, document the results i
19 of tne investigation on the MWO.
I 20 Number twelve, prior to restarting any
-21 excuse me.
I want.to start _12.over.
22
' Prior to starting any repair activities 23 the action' item lead individual must document that 4
(-
24 all investigations have been-properly completed.
~
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'l MR. BEARD:
I think this is the point that
.G the point I~ raised. earlier that I 2
we addressed 3
think it should be replied very clear to the lead 4
individuals) some of whom may not be in this room, I however you choose.to put'the words 5
. presume, that 6
but ba sically. tha t you as an' organization would not 7-. allow, convey to him through this document that he 8'
is notJallowed to improve it until after t h'i s team 9,
.has_had some opportunity for' concurrence a'c ti o n in
'etermination of root cause.
d 10 the I
'll.
M R.- WOOD:
I think it is always our 12 intention to bring-the lead individuals in with tne lo 13 action plan so/they will have that direct interface i
14 to fall ~back'on also.
l 15 MR. BEARD:-
I think you are probably r i~g h t.
16 I~was just thinking it would'be best i f -1't'. w e r e put 17 right here.
18 MR. ROSSI:
We need to.talt about'what our
-19 : -involvement and. going back and; concurring in any.of' 20
'this is, who does tha t, the region,.the ' team ' or wha t..
21'
- That is'somethi,ng we will have to caucus on at some 22 time.
23-MR. MYERS:
If we could,.probably the b e s t.-
l()_
24 thing. toLsay.with action item lead'-individuals;will
.RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATESf(614)445-8477-COMPUTERIZED ~ TRANSCRIPTION
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1
.need concurrence from TED's management and blank.
i.
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.2 MR.' BEARD:
If you leave NRC, then it is 3
sufficiently ambiguous that it doesn' t define the 4
region or-5 MR. ROSSI:
That again we need to caucus 6
on that.
'7 MR. WIDEMAN:
Wo.can probably put that in 8
this-guidance,-however,-the CAL says the 9'
investigative team.so that would~need-to be-cleared 10 up, you Know.
And I know, Wayne, we will.have to 11
' talk about'that later on.,
Maybe a clarification.
.12 MR. HELLE:1 I think that'is intended, lixe 0.
13 I said before,-by our program.
And I think that 14 will-become. evident as we go through the. case that 15 we are-showing here.
- 16 Point number 13, no equipment is to'be 17.
' shipped o f f~~ s i t e without prior approval of the
~
~
18 nuclea r--- f a cili ty. engine e ring ' a nd qua'lity engineering.
r 19-Use of Q purchase. order process to obtain-these 20'
. approvals.
21
' Note, ~inmall' cases-applicable procedure-
~
22 must beifollowed.
The requirements of this e
23 Laemorandum:must be= communicated to craft personnel.
h.
' 2 4" to avo'id;any confusion-or misunderstandingaduring
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('T 1-this investigative period.
' L) 2 Tha t 's basically the full guidance 3:
memorandum and then the. attachment being the freeze 4
list of equipment to'which we believe these provisions 5
apply.
-6 MR. ROSSI:
N o w',
this particular document
'7 here-is.only for trouble chooting and not for repair?
-8 MR. HELLE:
Tha t's right.
9 MR. ROSSI:
The subject is guidelines to 10 follow when trouble shooting or performing f
f 11 investigative actions.
12 MR.-HELLE:
Tha t's right.
Investigative I
)
13 work.
14 MR. ROSSI:
And even if trouble shooting 15 may involve'the shipment of equipment off-site?
16 MR. HELLE:
Yes.
17 MR. ROSSI:
Is there anything in here that.
18 involving the replacement the replacement of any 19
. broken parts orEdefective equipment or any. thing like 20 tha t11s not covered by'this.
Tha t's right.
22 MR. ROSSI:
This is only tof find out what 23 the problem-is and not to replace anything.
([ ]
24' MR. HELLE:.
Tha t's right.
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So.none of the equipment, any
]
2 equipment here would either be' shipped off site for 3
. trouble shooting and it is not going to disappear I
4 anyplace or anything line tha t.
.It will be
- 5.. maintained even after what they find out what the
-6.
problem is whether'it goes to-a vendor or whatever.
7 MR. HELLE:
I:believe that to be - true.
(- MR. ROSSI:
Tha t's a very'important point.
9
- WeLdon't-want any equipment?that is removed or replaced at the site, we don't
- 10 replaced from the
.11
. want anyfdefective equipment to be retained.
Tha t's 12 a very clear-issue.
13 MR. HELLE:
I think maybe this memo could i
14-
~be addended.:to-include that provision that any
].
15 equipment that'needs further invescigation off site 16.
tna t. we maintain tracea bility and we maintain that equipment or maintain those parts.
, 17:
18 MR. S H A'F E R :
That ties very close'because
' 19-I-was-going to ask you wha t mechanism do you have in 20.
place nere.
Are you1 setting. up a holding pen.
+
21 somewhere.such. tha t, 'you know, properly-identified 22 in that location;the team will know enough to go i-23: - there;if they want to look.at,.a specific part.that O
- 24 reitea a cit 'i-9o1 2 to he hieged oit or whatever.
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'i 1-I think that might be useful to' describe that here.
2 So the parts a re n' t laying all over.the place.
3 to 1
3-MR. HELLE:
If we_ included. provisions t'
.4 preserve and' Keep the failed equipment here or off 15 site tha t - would address your concern, we.have it i
[
- 6:
available for inspection or somebody to l o o k J a 't it.
7 MR. ROSSI :
You need to Keep it and have a 8
record of exactly:where.it c'a m e f r o m'.
9 MR. BEARD:
Track records.
f J
10 MR. ROSSI:'
Like-when you are worxing on' i
11
.va lv e 5991'and 608, if you have the same brotan part 4
jl2 from both of.those valves, we would want a record as i
i 13 to_which of the;two broken parts-came'from valve 599
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and which from:608.
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15-MR.:WOODr.
We'want'to maintain full' i
.16.
traceability.
I 17-MR. BEARD:
.I think also-along the same 1
18 line let'me give you a different example.
Suppose-4
.it worescomerto pass. you were: to replace an assembly
' 19-
- 20. :with-a governor.with-a new-governor.
I' think that (i
. 21
- 'ILthinkowe want that governor: kept here so1that
~ 22 Lif;.the commission.'should choose to -- if you were
{
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.1 independent la bora tory ' tha t that option would not be
'2 closed out.
3 MR. ROSSI:
Tha t's an important point.
4 MR.
BEARD:
So.that any failed item that 5
is. replaced either on site or oft site should not be 6
discarded even it it is an oil tilter to be used as 7
an absurd example.
Save the old oil filter.
-8 MR. SHAFER:
'I think it is very important 4
9 too that if you do replace. failed parts with new 10 parts, the new part is' suspect until such a time as
'll.
your analysis establishes that there is no 12-relationship between the old part and what you just 13
-put in there.
.14 MR. MYERS:
Let me recommend at the end ot 15 13 we. add the sentence individual equipment 16 traceability of.off site actions and equipment 17 return-is required.
18 MR. BEARD:
What do you mean by -- you-are 19 talking about on tne off site shipments,. yeah.
20 MR. ' HELLE:
I think it is.a broader things.
21 Ted.
.It certainly applies chere,.but it also.
22 applies to anything we don't ship off.
I
'23
'MR.
BEARD:
We may.need a'new item'to
)~
24 retaining-the components or parts with it.-
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MR. MYERS:
For on site.
2-MR. BEARD:
For anyplaco.
i 3
MR.'. GRIME:
There is going to have to be a 4
similar guideline for the repair phrase that would 5
- address in detail those issues of re ta i n i ng those 6
tailed' components no ma tte r how minor they might be.
_7
- MR. BEARD
If you get in the electronic 8
instead of-valve and pipe you may choose to trace
,4 9
this thing down to.a printed circumstance cut board 10 in a cabinet someplace.
11 And the normal repair actions I have seen 12 at a lot ot nuclear facilitiesago on-the board would O
13 be replaced, a new board put in its: place and the 14 defective board or presumed defective board may go 15 in the trash can because of its price, and what we 16 are saying that should.not occur in this situation.
17 MR. ROSSI:
Any replaced. parts we want 18 retained and marxed and labeled so tha t if we' choose 19' we can have an independent assessment'of the failure 20 mode.
21 MR. WOOD:
Do you have~some words that we 22.
can adapt, Jim?
23 MR. HELLE:
Well, I added:an11 tem 14.
I A4_j 24 captured a tow. thoughts and have to do some word RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION g
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engineering, but here are the thoughts.
L -)
2 Keep all tailed equipment, full 3
traceability, extra inf orma tion where it came from, 4
you know, where it originated, keep for further 5
examination and do not discard any pieces or parts.
6 So I am saying I think we can capture that 7
in a statement called 14, and I see everybody 8
shaking their head on Edison side anyway t ha t we can 9
certainly accommodate that requirement.
10 MR. BEARD:
I think those words are 11 generally acceptable.
Certainly for the benefit of 12 the transcript they are acceptable.
The intent is 13 hero.
14 MR. SHAPER:
Let me ask some logistics.
15 How many lead individuals are there?
16 MR. HELL. :
John, do you want to speak to 17 tha t?
18 MR. SHAFER:
You have a list somewhere 19 IN's I was going to get a list from someone but 20 maybe one of the staff members got it.
21 MR. WOOD:
There is approximately eight to 22 ten and some of them have more than one item that 23 they are working on.
This deals with equipment on
()
24 the freeze list.
We have other' lead individuals for RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
1 --
35
-1 some analytical work that won' t be necessarily.
2 subjected to this hardware oriented. investigation i
3 action.
4 MR. SHAFER:
How many-would be in the 5
field-at any one time?
Do you have a feel for that?
15 MR. WOOD:
I an assuming eight to ten ~of
.7 tnem.could be in the field at the same time.
I 1
8 don't know that we have limited ourselves to our i
9 capabilities to go out:and work X number of these 7
'10 things simultaneously..
i 11 MR. SHAFER:
_ Well, what's bothering me a 12 flittle bit.
Do gou intend to work around the. clock?
13 MR. WOOD:
' Terry, maybe you could better 14 address that.
15 MR. MURRAY:
.We must ge t' approval to go, 16 we are going to. work extended-hours.,
I won't say we 17 are going to work around the clock.
18 MR. BEARD:
Does your maintenance
-19 organization normally work single shift?
?
' 'Normally it is' single' shift.
20 MR. MURRAY:
~~
21 We have' skeleton coverage on the back shifts but i
22 normally the major; jobs are a single shift now-23 because of the ~ outage here and:once we'get our plans
()
24 work'ed out and-get your approval, we are going'to do RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION I
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1 some reshifting offresources, but I still don't.
2 think we will go around the clock.
J 3
MR.JMYERS:
Your concern is schedule for 4
coverage.
5 MR. SHAFER:
Yeah, because the first 6
assign valves 599 and 608.
I assume you are going 7
to have two teams working on the same time.
8 MR. LONG:
No, tha t's incorrect.
9 MR. SHAFER:
When you have a mechanical P
10 team looking at the body of a valve and an 11 electrical team looking at the electrical.
12 MR. LONG:
No, the intent is to worX one
\\-
^13 valvs.at.a -time, start to:Cinish.
l 14 MR.-SHAFER:
As a team you would have a 15-group of people tha t 'would ~ do all: of the work?
1 6' MR. 'LONG:
Yes.-
i 17 MR. HELLE:
We need to get the action plan 18 for-the valve on the table to really.look at the 19 overall process that we wanted to use here for 20 getting your condition questions with our proposed 21
. action.
22 MR. BEARD:
I have another general 23 question on the same line before the specific case.
I ' ()
24 Of the eight to ten lead individuals to wha t. extent RUNFOLA'& ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i
37
,e-)
1 can you tell us that these are engineers who would V
2 be knowledgeable of the design considerations that 3
are involved in the equipment?
4 MR. HELLE:
That's the reason they were 5
picked basically because they did have John, I 6
just passed you my list down there.
Maybe you 7
should address that or pass that list back down to 8
me.
9 It looks to me like we have got about 20 10 people, and the people that have been identified as 11 lead individuals to address the problems have been 12 picked because of their knowledge in the problem
\\
13 area and for the engineering people, you know, they 14 would be our lead people, senior level lead people 15 typically if we have that type of an individual 16 assigned to the problem.
17 The most knowledgeable person that we 18 would have in engineer or I would say in the 19 s ta tion for the station items they have picked the 20 people who are most knowledgeable.,
21 Now, not everybody that is assigned lead 22 responsibility is an engineering person or has an 23 engineering background, but looking at the list here, em l
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)
24 I would say for those items tnat have Key engineer RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
33 gS 1
questions at stake tnere are engineering people L.)
2 assigned to them.
3 The majority of these people are engineers.
4 Looking at the list most of them are engineering 5
people with few qualms, about 20 or them.
6 MR. BEARD:
I guess my concern is focused 7
on people, whether they are engineers or technicians 8
I could care less, but people who are familiar with 9
the design considerations that went into a 10 particular component's electronic racx, valve, 11 widget, wnatever it is, that they have specific 12 Knowledge of tne design considerations.
(3 13 And I appreciate where you are coming from, 14 Jim, you tried to select the most Kn'owledgeable 15 people within your corporation, but this interfaces 16 the question with regard to the use of vendors.
17 Those are the, typically, the la manufacturers and the designers.
And we have 19 lesened through some experience utilities actually 20 learned the l e n o o'n.
no were just around the 21 peripheral of it, but it is very, very important 22 that when investigative activities are undertaken 23 that Knowledge of the design considerations be a I ))
24 part of that team.
\\_
l RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
=.
39 1
And you may have to, for example, if you j
2 do the steam feed rupture control system if your 3
engineers are not very familiar with the design 4
cons'ide ra tions, it may be ultimate to go to 5
consolidate controls or get~somebody up front maybe 6
even i t, consideration of the maintenance work order 7
seems to be the focal point of this focal document 8
-in outlining tne investigative.offort.
I-9 MR. WOOD I think that, in fact, is being 10 done.
For instance, on main feed pump turbines and 11 control, we have G E that we are talking to.
We 12 have consultants that are working with our people in 13 sddition to G E.
j 14 And I think we really can't summarize our 15 whole effort and expertise level by taking tnem as a 16 group.
We are really going to have to break them 17 downcalmost item by item and explain the expertise l
18 that.we have applied and the type ~of program that-we i
.19 have laid out for each individual item.
f 20 But we share, I think, your thoughts and 21 intents here, and we nave tried to' apply that 22 rationale to our assignments.
And where necessary l
23 we have augmented or own capabilities by bringing in
+
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24 either vendor reps or outside third-party RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
40 rm 1
consultants to help us.
Q,)
2 MR.
BEARD:
Recognize vendor rap, there 3
are vendor reps and vendor reps.
Some of the vendor 4
reps are well experienced superior technicians and 5
mechanics and have no engineering background, and I 6
am trying to focus on engineering, knowledge ot the 7
engineering design aspects of the equipment.
I will 8
stop at that point.
9 MR. ROSSI:
Let me ask a question.
Do you you want release today to just trouble shoot 10 want 11 599 and 608?
12 MR. WOOD:
Based on an action plan.
[)
\\'
13 MR. ROSSI:
We have been through this 14 general thing on trouble shooting, which I assume is 15 going to apply to all the equipment on tne list, and 16 now you are prepared to talk about the specifics of 17 599 and 608.
18 Let me suggest that we go ahead and start 19 talning about tha t plan for 599 and 608, and then at 20 some point here we ought to decide where we ought to 21 break and caucus amongst ourselves and try to 22 identif y wha t issues we need to talk with you about 23 and what things we are concerned about and then r( )j 24 reconvene because I don't think we can -- we RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-6477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
1 41 l
l
-1 certainly can't resolve all the issues in the I
2
' meeting between us.
3 We are going to-have to caucus at.some 4
4
'poin t and probably the'best place is after we look i
5' at the specific plan.
6 MR. WOOD:
Our intentions were to go 7
through the1 guidelines to.give you our thought
};
{'
8 process that we were'trying to apply to-activities
-9 before we actually talked any specifica.
10.
MR. ROSSI:
Right.
I think we have done i
).
11 that.
I.think we need to come back to this after we i
12 caucus'and after we loon at this, but we are ready l
'13 to go on.
Y
,14 LMR. WOOD:
If there are any extras, I 4
[
15 would like'one.
{
16 MR. ROSSI:
We need;this marked as --
i i
17 MR. BURNS:
de will mark that as Exhibit 2 18 to this meeting transcript.
,19 4,
20-Thereupon, Exhibit No. 2 i
r 21 was marxed for purposes 1
i 22 of iden tif ica tion.
23 l
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24 MR. WOOD:
I guess I would like Bernie i f RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES.(614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
..i.
42 1
Bayer.to kind or describe the layout of the action 0-2 plan.
3 And Bernie is heading up the efforts to 4
collect'and consolidate-these action plans.
And 5
then.we would have Jim Long and Masoud Bajestani 6
discuss the details of the action plan with the team 7
members.
8 MR. BURNS:
Make sure she knows what we 9
are referring to, i t is the exhibit is entitled 10 auxiliary teedwater' system valve problem analysis.
11 AF 599 and 608.
12 MR. BEYER:
In a very simple ~ approach we 13 wanted to basically collect data, analyze the 14 conditions that existed, get all the information 15 that we could and then in uomo logical-fashion
. 16 determine from the information we had from equipment 17 history what possible hypothesis we might have la relative to the causes of the problems.
19 And we go through these plans tha t's
- 20 basically what you see then is collection of the 21 data, development of hypothesus and then development 22 of a plan to either prove or disprove the hypotheses, 23 to hone in on a given root cause or more than one
()
24 root causes if that happens to be the' case.
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MR. BEARD:
Tha t's basically the outline 2
for each of these specific plans?
3 MR.
BEYER:
That would be the outline that 4
you~would see for each plan that we would present.
5 MR.
BEARD:
Okay.
One nuclear power plant, 6
a different one from this one, they learned another 7
lesson and that is as I read this you are talking
.8 about through the change analysis you will develop a i,
9 hypothesis which I would envision is the most likely l
10
.cause: ot the problem.
11 MR. GRIME:
Plural.
Hypotheses at this 12 point.
- i. ]
13 MR. BEARD:
I think it is impor ta n t that 14 you also plan for and anticipate to taxe adequate 15 precautions that neither the most likely cause or 16 causes but the last one you would have ever.
i 17 suspected really is-the cause and be carotul to la introduce steps that would be in design to prevent l
19 destroying evidence that that was the cause.
20 MR. BCYER:
I think tha t sounded. nice.
21 MR. ROSSI:
Why don't we look at what they 22 have here and see if tnere are specific changes that 23 need to be made to it because tha t's kind of a
(])
24 general comment.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION e,.
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44 1
MR. BEARD:
Yes, it is a general comment.
e
.g s
(
2-MR. MYERS:
Our plant not here was?
The 3
name of that power plant-so we could get our people 4
in touch-with their people.
,5 MR. BEARD:
Well, I don' t talk about other 6
utilities in front of a specific one, but there was 7
a1 plant in Colorado.
8 MR. BEYER:
I think the additional 9
information that came with this handout basically is 10 specific to the particular action plan.
And I will l
11 let Jim Long taxe it from there.
I 12 MR. GRIME:
I think as ta r as your point, 13 Mr. Beard, we can point out enat one of the main
.14~. purposes in getting the people to document their l
15 nypotheses and several of them was just for your i
16 reason so that in looking at the total potential and i
17 in the instructions to them and developing the l
18 subsequent questioned actions for just that purpose.
19
'Even though I would like to jump right in 20 there and test my number one hypotheses, number 2 ]L tnroe here is not: going to be able to test it if I 22 do~it that way so that they can es tablish the proper l
23 total tests sequence to test.all of the various
()
24 hypotheses as.far as what might have concerned with RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
45 rm 1
that particular component.
(_)
2 MR.
BEARD:
My comment is very general in 3
that you may want to amund that particular page for 4
in future otner people developing tha t's got to be 5
part of their program plan.
That's all.
6 You may have very well have done an 7
outstanding job with this item on this particular 8
thing.
9 MR. GRIME:
That was in the general 10 instructions that was given to the group.
11 MR. LONG:
Well, my responsibility is to 12 determine why the auxiliary f eedwa ter valves 599 and n
13 608 did not reopen during the incident that occurred.
14, Now, those valves are both normally locked 15
.open valves.
They were both open prior to the 16 incident because of the improper initiation of SPRCS 17 both those valves went shut.
18 MR. S il A P E R When you say locked open 19 valves, how is it locked open?
20 MR. LONG:
The valve hand wheel has a 21 chain with a padlock to prevent someone from 22 inadvertently shutting it.
The local hand s ta tions 23 also have covered with padlocks on them to keep
((~%)
24 someone RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i
46 1
MR. S!! A F ER :
It is local controls that are
(^)
(_.s 2
locked open.
3 MR. LONG:
Yes, local controls.
4 MR. ROSSI:
The remote ones are not.
5 MR. LONG:
The ones from the control room 6
are unlocked.
7 MR. ROSSI:
Either manual or automa tic 8
from control.
9 MR. LONG:
During the improper initiation 10 of SFRCS those valves were shut, the error 11 discovered, and SFAS reset.
12 Those valves did not automatically reopen
(^)
\\- '
13 even thougn they had a algnal telling them to open.
14 At that point, operators were dispatched to the 15 valves.
16 And in my discussion with the operators 17 tney infocmed me that he put the valve, this is each, 18 he said the same on both valves he put the valve in 19 manual, he started to turn t r.e hand wheel in the 20 open direction.
And it was hard to move.
21 And he said he went about half a turn and 22 then he went back towards the closed direction.
lie 23 was going to try and give it a hammer blow.
Ele went
()
24 in the open direction again still stop, closed RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-6477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
..m 47 l'
direction again.
2 At that time he heard a rattling sound in l -
3 the' operator and the valve opened electrically.
- Now, i
4 prior to this incident the last time or the last 5
time the< maintenance was done on these valves was 3
6 during the 1984' refueling outage.
7 We went in and on both of these valves we i
j S
replaced the brake and the motor as part of our l
9 env i ronme n ta l qualitication program.
1 i
)
10 AF-599 was also completely disassembled, i
11 relubricated, some worn parts replaced in it and j
i 12 reinstalled.
()
l 13 Both of these valves were successfully i
14 tested per ST 506401, which is the containment valve i
15 post maintenance test, ST.
16 The changes that I saw from the time that 17 they were successfully tested the last time and this 18 incident is that when they were te s te d during the I
19 outage the plant was shutdown, cool down, 4
20 depressurized so the valves were tested cold witnout 21 any additional pressure.
22' And during,the incident,.from the i'
23 information that I have gathered, they could have i)()
-24 exhibited a opening against at least the maximum DP 1
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.1-of -1,0 50 pounds.
Not knowing the exact pressure I
,f S M
2 am going to assume they had the maximum DP across 3
them.
4 MR. BELL:
Are these valves tested per 5
ASME Section 11 per stroke times are measured?
6 MR. LONG:
Yes, they are.
MR. BELL Have you looked at that 7
a docume n ta tion to see if stroke time is periodically 9
increased on a periodic basis?
10-MR. LONG:
Yes, the stroke time has not 11 changed.
In fact, subsequently to this at 15:15 on 12 6-9 after they performed ST 507102, which is the 13 stroxe time on these valves, and they successfully 14 passed their stroke time test so the valves have 15 been successtui strokes since the incident.
16 MR. ROSSI
'Since the incident.
17 MR. LONG:
That was prior to the CAL being 18 placed against the plant.
19 MR. BEARD:
If we get a list of the j
20 activities conducted of a trouble shooting repair 2
21 nature.batore the freeze over, tha t would be an item i
22 on that list?
i 23 MR. LONG:
Yes, sir.
< ()
24 MR. WOOD Yes.
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1 MR. ROSSI:
Was that done under the plan ks) 2 with wha t condition?
3 MR. LONG:
That the plant was in mode 3,
4 steam under pressure with approximately 850 pounds 5
at the time those valves were stroked.
6 MR. SHAPER:
How many pounds?
7 MR. LONG:
850.
8 MR. JACKIW Did you say that the torque 9
setting was recently changed?
10 MR. LONG:
The torque switch setting was 11 changed in March of 1984.
We had an FCR that we 12 pertormed.
O" 13 Based on the Torry pin study we changed 14 the torque switch setting trom I am not sure, but 15 it is now 1.5 open, 1.0 closed.
16 The MWO's that I nad pulled out the da ta 17 indicates that that is what the torque switch 18, settings were found as prior to the maintenance, and 19 tha t's what they were left at.
20 Now, based on that information, okay, we 21 developed a hypotheses or the different things that 22 could cause a limitorque to torque out, oxay.
23 How, the indication of the ope ra tors from
()
24 what they told me I am going to have to assume right RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
50 1
now that the torque switch stopped the valve on
.b, -m 2
opening.
So the question is now wnat caused the 3
torque switen to function.
4 Now, there are several things that can be 5
we can'go under.
Now, on the snect here that lista 6
the hypotneses some of the things t na t we looked at 7
was that the bypass, tne torque switch bypass 8
contact could have been improperly adjusted when the 9
maintenance was done meaning that it takes a certain 10 number, a certain percentage ot valve travel before 11 you put the torque switch in the circuit just 12 because of the valve unseating capabilities.
13 So that is one hypotheses that could have 14 caused the valve to torque out.
15 And as you can see from the action plan 16 items three and five, okay, two of the tnings that 17 we are going to do to either prove or disprove that 18 is that, one, we are going to be bringing MOVATS 19 Incorporated in to provide us a signature of these 20 valves under a stroke condition and from that 21 information their print-out will tell us whether or 22 not the switch is opening too early in the stroke to 23 unseat the valve.
()
24 In addition to that, we will using our RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
'l 51 1
procedure again we will manually open the valve and
)
2 verify where the limit-switch contact is actually J
E 3
opening and compare thit to the MOVATS da ta and see 4
if we have a ~ discrepancy in that procedure.
5 Another tning that could 6
MR. BAJESTANI:
Tno first item I want to 7
mention that the first thing is we want to see if 8
the limit switch is set improperly.
Tha t's what we 1
9 are talking about.
10 MR. LONG:
Well, I might mention that the i
11 first thing we are going to do before we get any of 12 this is that we are going to do a visual inspection 13 of the valve to see-it we can see any,.you know, I'
14 anything that'might be obvious without tearing it 15 apart.
16 And then once we get the switch cover open, o
17 we will check.the as-found torque switch setting to j
18 verify that it is, in fact, set at one and one and a 19 half.
Tha t's wha t number two is improper torque 20 switch setting.
i 4
21 That is'just going to be a visual 22 inspection to see, in fact, that it is set at one, i
23 one and a half as we think it is.
()
24 Another thing that could cause the valve RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
^
COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
52 g-1 to torque out is either the wrong spring pack or an (s
2
. improperly adjusted spring pack, oxay.
3 Now, again, the MOVATS da ta will tell us 4
somewnat whether or not the valve is torquing out or 5
delivering the required thrust and whether the 6
torque switch is opening prematurely or whether or 7
not the one and a half setting on the torque switch 8
is sufficient to overcome the required thrust when 9
the valve is opening.
10 MR. SHAPER:
You can't tell now what 11 spring pack is in there.
You don't Know?
12 MR. LONG:
The only way you can tell is by r~s 13 looRing at the-torque switch calibration plate.
It 14 will tell you what is supposed to be in there.
15 without physically going in there and 16 taking the spring pack out, take it apart, count the 17 thickness and the number of washers and the preload, 18 tha t's the only way you can tell what spring pack is 19 in the operator.
20 MR. SHAFER:
There is no number on it?
21 MR.
LONG:
No, no part on the spring packs.
22 Each limitorque on the limit switch has a torque 23 switch calibra tion plate and on that strictly has a
()
24 number in thousands which tells you the thickness of RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
53 1
1
- the ring, Bellville springs and a number telling you 2
the number of springs.
j-3 You have to go to Limitorque and give them 4
ene operator serial number, and they can tell you 5
the number of springs, the thickness and the pre-6 load on that spring pack.
7 MR. LANNING:
May I ask you a question.
i a
8 Is the control circuitry for this valve such that 9
the. valve can change position during aid stroxe7 Do 10 you understand my question?
11 MR. LONG:
I see what you are saying.
If i
12 the control circuit operated properly, the valve O
13 should seal in until it opens all the.way up.
14 When it opens up,'if when it is shut it 15 sh9uld have torqued out.
When it torqued out, the i
16 contacts in the control circuit then would have 17 aligned the open circuit and if it had an automatic 18 signal to open, it should have opened back up.
i 19 When they rest SFAS, the valve should have 20 had a valve to open.
l 21 MR. MYERS:
The' answer is it goes to l
22 complete stroxe before it allows another signal.
4 23 MR. BAJESTANI You can't change the
()
24 position if you-look at the control circuits.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
' COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION.
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54
. r-1 MR. LANNING:
Cannot.
x_-
2 MR.
BAJESTANI:
Cannot.
3 MR.
LONG:
Assuming no equipment 4
maltunctioned, the circuit is designed to complete 5
the stroxe before it goes the other way.
6 MR. ROSSI:
Does this valve get 7
periodically cycled when the plant is running?
8 MR. LONG:
Yes, there is a-quarterly valvo I don't remember the number now, but 9
test ST 10 thare is an ST that periodically strokes these 11 valves to test their timing quality.
12 MR. BELL:
The same test you said that was O '
13 performed Sunday, right?
14 MR. LONG:
I believe so.
had that test 15 MR. ROSSI:
And that's 16 been pertormed since the last time you went up to 17 temperature and prosaure I guess 18 MR.
LONG:
When I checked the log today, 19 the last stroke time I saw listed in the log was the 20 December '84 timing test, which was the post 21 maintenance testing for the outage.
22 MR. ROSSI:
That was done cold?
23 MR. LONG:
Yes.
(
)
24 MR. ROSSI:
And the valve normally RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
55
.r]
1 operates with pressure on. hot and pressure on one v
2 side in the pipe or what?
3 MR. LONG:
The valve is a normally open 4
valva; therefore, it doesn't normally see the time 5
requirements in the open direction, okay.
There is 6
no time requirement to close the valve.
7 MR. ROSSI:
I #:nde rs ta nd that, but what is 8
the normal condition temperature pressure of the 9
salve when the plant is operating?
Like what would 10 it have been, I guess, before the event on last 11 Sunday?
12 MR. LONG:
Whatever steam air pressure is,
(^N
' '1 IJ 350 pounds.
14 MR. ROSSI:
And the last time it was 15 tes ted cold without pressure and on Sunday it would 16 have been not, I assume, hot and pressurized?
17 MR. LONG:
Right.
18 MR. ROSSI:
So it would have been at the 19 sa tu ra tion tempera ture to the steam in the steam 20 g en e ra tor basically.
21 MR. S il A P E R :
Just out of curiosity, is it 22 ditticult to check that at hot conditions?
23 MR. LONG:
The time?
n( )
24 MR. S t! A F E R :
The stroke on those valves.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
+
i 56 J
-1 MR. LONG:
No, it shouldn't be.
1 I
l l
2 MR. ROSSI:.
Why had it not been checked 3'
hot since last December?
i 4
MR.-LONG:
I would have to' check, but I-j 5
i don' t think it is~ required to.
.I thinx that valve 6
is listed as la month refueling test check, and I am l
7-not sure.11.it has another ST that requires it any 8
frequently than - tha t or not.-
l 9
MR. ROSSI:
The only requirement may be
. [
10 tha t you test ~ s troxe tes t it cold every 18.montns?-
I 11-MR. SHAPER:
It is required to be operable 12 at full pressure tempera ture.
It seems to be. a l'3
' conflict.
14 MR. BEARD:
-When you are - referring to.the-
~
~
.15 18 month testing,'are y'ou ' tElking abou t1 the pla n t's' 16_
technical specs requirements?
t 17 MR. LONG:
Yes.
j_
18 MR. BEARD:.Are-there.any, additional.such 19.
as the ASME code?
20 MR. LONG: -Iwould have to say..I.am not'
~
4 l
I i-2 15
's u r e. :
I don't xnow a t:- this - time.
g 22 MR. BEARDS.
For valvesLofothis typeifnot' 23-this specific one, would you.-. expect that-the'ASME l
l h.
. 24-code'would-require-testing. in-addition:to an.18 RUNFOLA_.&-ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 t
COMPUTERIZED; TRANSCRIPTION
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57 1
month test?
2 MR. LONG:
Yos.
There are certain valves 3
now, as an example, the aux feedwater monthly test, 4
'there are certain valves listed there that are 5
strokes as part of the lining up the aux t eedwa te r 6
and verifying that it, in fact, feeds the generators.
7 As far as these two valves what I could 8
find was that they were listed under ST 507102, the 9
18 month refueling test, and then when I tested them 10 during the outage, ST 506401.
11 MR. BEARD:
But'you didn't find I
12 guess you are referring to some cross reference the O
13 utility has a component versus the required testing 14 items?
15 MR. LONG:
Yes.
16 MR. BEARD:
You didn't find any. reference
-17 to some test procedure that would be the ASME typo
'18 quarterly test?
19 MR. WIDEMAN:
'I think-we would have to-go 20-to our code people and determine whether that valve 21 MR. ROSSI:
Let_me say something.
I think 22 that1this is kind of deviating from the direct 23 discussion that we are here for.
)
24 But at some point while~we are here doing RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION; i
+
+
w
~.
58 1
our fact finding we are going to want to want you to 2
look and see wha t you did with these valves in terme --
3.
' w h'a t your test requirements are and when'the la s't
~
i 4
time tha t you tested them was for sure and then talk 5
to whoever does that looking about.both the test 6
requirements and when they were last testing so that i
7 we will know~for sure when the last time they were l'
8 tested was during-refueling with the. thing cold.and 9
it's never been tested since then with the steam 4
~
i 10 generators hot and pressurized because that is go'ing to.need, I thinA, in -our -f act l'1 something we are 12 finding that nas,.you know, an. obvious, I think, 13 implication on perhaps the problem that may:have 14 occurred with these valves beyond what.you actually
.15 find in terms of torque.
16 MR. WIDEMAN:
I think Tre would probably
~ 17 chave.to go to our valveLinspectionsprogram and look, 18 and we can determine that.
I l9-MR. ROSSI:
I think tha t's probably
.20 something tha t-we arei going to want to generally T
21 explore on~the equipment that malfunctioned on
~
j '
22
-Sun' day is we are-going to-want to talk about what 23_
a re your normal tes t. requirementsif orHth'a t: equipment,
(,J 24 what tests were last done~and then'one o f - the.. thing s l
?
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1 that our fact finding team ought to do is maxe some
\\/
do some fact finding on what we find.
2 3
And the kinds of things I think that we 4
are going to want to know for sure is where valves 5
or other equipment that had to perform on Sunday 6
under certain set of conditions, do they ever get 7
tested under those same set of conditions because I 8
thinx tha t's a pertinent issue for our fact finding 9
team.
10 MR. BEARD:
It may turn out, for example, 11 that the testing that's specified might be desirable 12 to be improved wnen possible situation that could h')
13 arise would be that the specifica could be changed 14 to-Just read tested every so often under hot normal 15 plant conditions, for example.
16 And if tha t's what we learn out of_this, 17 tnen Davis-Besse folks benefit and the rest of the 18 world can benefit of the lessons learned in those 19 transient.
And tha t's one of the reasons we 20-ultimately do these things.
21 MR. ROSSI:
These valves are normally open 22 during operation.
They have to be open to perform 23 their safety function, and it may very well be that
()
24 people somewhere along the line decided there isn' t RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
60
.fm 1
any reason to stroke these things because you aren't N) 2 going to nave to close them and reopen them and 3
along comes the air, and tha t's exactly what they 4
had to do.
5 MR. WIDEMAN:
So the team is aware, we 6
recently had an inspection on our pump and valve 7
program where tney came in and inspected the program.
8 And there was one violation that only dealt with a 9
trending.
10 MR. ROSSI:
Again, we are collecting tacts 11-on wnat you actually did independent and what you 12 were required to do also.
13 And I suppose at some point somebody is 14 going to look at the comparison of those, but what 15 we want to do is find the fact, what were you 16 required'to do, what did you actually do and is what 17 you actually did appropriate for making sure tne 18 equipment will work.
Tha t's our fact finding.
19 MR. SHAFER:
Steve, what you had to say 20 about what the team findings were maybe 21 appropriately on the record; however, and I think in 22 all honestness in order to set the record straight, 23 yes, the team identitied tha t they have an excellent
<^
(,3, 24 program over here;-however, they are having problems RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
-.~
61
.1 implementing that program..
2 MR.
BEARD:
I have a difterent question if 3
I could, Jim.
It seems like in reading the 4
documents tha t you prepared here that this valve, 5
like maybe some other valves, has undergone a number 6
of changes in the last refueling outage.
7 For example, I. notice down here that the 8
brake and the motors were replaced.
i.
9 MR. LONG:
Yes.
10 MR.
BEARD:
In your review.of the 11
. maintenance history, surveillance, et cetera, did 12 you have rind tha t before these valves were declared O
13 operable that post = maintenance testing was conducted 14-that would-verify tnat all.these changes.would have 15 been thoroughly checked out?
16 MR. LONG:
Yes, sir,'we.did.
17 MR.
BEARD:
Second question was with 18 regard to the general guidance that Bernie suggested t
19
-earlier orswas. discussing earlier, you-are to 1
20 conduct a review ~of recent maintenance history, and 21 I 'am assume you are talking about also including-22
~ surveillance 'a c tion' ;tes ting ?
4 23 MR. LONG:
Yes..
Let me clarify that.
I
()
24 went~ and chocked the valve' leg 'today to see what
~
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ST's have been done on the valves recently and 2
whether or not the timos have either gotten longer 3
or shorter.
4 And I lixe-I said, the last ST I saw l
5 lis te d in the valve log for that was the one prior 6
to this incident was in December of
'84.
7 MR. ROSSI:
So we are pretty sure the last 6
time the valve was' tested,after, after you did a 9
number of things to it last refueling and it was 10 only tested cold.
11 MR.
LONG:'
R i g h t.-
And then it was tested 12
- hot after tna incident at 15:15.
13 MR. ROSSI:-
But not not after the 14 maintenance was done only cold.
15 MR. LONG:-
As far as I can tell, yes.
16 MR.
BEARD:
I guess I was wondering on 17 this item number two page maintenance history or the 18 points I was trying to'get to would you prepare some 19 sort of a very, very brief summary _of what kind of 20 problems had previous problems had been, for 21 example, in four case it may be that you had torque s
22 switch problems chronically on a particular valve 23 for a number of years or the last three times that (f
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to be a torque problem or that the valve has never L./
2 had a torque problem, et cetera or something of that 3
that would tend to say.this is a supporting thing as 4
to why I believe this is the most.likely cause, et 5
cetera, et. cetera.
6 Had'you int 3nded to do something of that i.
7
. nature?
8 HR. LONG:- - No, I ha d n ' t,- but it probably
^
9 would be worthwhile looking it.
11 0 MR. ROSSI:
At dome. point inDtime, and I 11 am not sure when that point is, we are going to have 12 to break and. caucus and decide exactly 7what we want O
- 13 c o' d o to these, documents and we are happy-with them.
14 MR. SHAFER:
How about now?
15 MR.
BEARD:
I'would like to ask one more
~
16 question then I ~ would be-at 'that point.
j-4 17 In this developing of~yourfhypotheses, we 18
-certainly don't disagree with 1what you are ~ saying is 19 the most.likely cause going back to.the earlier
. point'doing things that-might disrupt.our cause, 20 21 would.it be helpful to' identify other possible causes-in order-to have-some' feel for what steps 22'
'i.
avoided?
23 should be-l~ ( )I 24 MR. LONG:
I'think we did-that in our RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED. TRANSCRIPTION' 9
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detailed analysis of what we plan to do.
I think we
-~
systematically that 2
looked into that to take a 3
we would not disturb anything that could have caused 4
it.
l 5
MR. WOOD:
This first memo here, I think, 6
lists the hypotheses that he would be 7
MR. BEARD:
I am lost for a real good 8
example.
Let me makeup something sort of 9
hypothetical, okay.
-10 Suppose'you think the torque switches but 11 there is another widget in there that in some cases
^'a 12 co'uld lead to the same symptoms.
It would seem like
~
- cause, 13 if you identiried that widget as a possible 14 then you could be setup in the thinking mode and the 15 procedure writing mode to not only do what-you _think 16 is the most 11xely-cause in the system and orderly 17 but Keyed in certain things you want to stay away 18 from.
19 I am not_ arguing that what you have done 20 is not systematic and orderly and this, that and the
'2 '1 '
other.-
I am trying to? focus in on possibility --
22 like I s a ild, I don't have'aEgood example to give you 23 on inventory.
().
24 MR. LONG:
I think we tried to look at RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
~.
. ~..
65 1
t h a' t when we developed-that into looking what could 2
.have caused it, and'I think I tried to look at all 4
3 the possible causes that they could be internal to
)
4 the valve that might be causing it.
5 I think one tning is that from my talking they are convinced that their 6
'with MOVATS is'that 7
system.will be able to tell us whether or not there
{
8 is a[ problem internal to the operator other than 9
what we' suspect, i e ', ' a broken gear tooth, a bent
- 10 stem,.something~ internally. operable that they have 11 the expertise right now.that they can pretty.much 12 pinpoint' things-down'to tha t - point.
13 MR. BEARD:
Did someone may caucus?
14-
'MR. ROSSI:
Before we do.that I want'to.
t 15 see-whereLwe'are-here.
We-nave-this first document 16 Jon guidelines to' follow when ~ trouble. shooting.and 17:
performin'g~
investigative a c tions,, a nd tha t's going
- 18.. tio a pply 'to - a ll of.the. equipment that_we are going.
[
19.
.to.beltalkingfabout.
' 20 MR. ~MURRAY:
Thatis a generic document to 21
. apply to all the.troublecahootingshooting p'la n s.
4 22
'MR.
ROSSIs.
~And the-second. document'you 23-.gave us.is.a trouble shooting'only not affixing.but
( )$
24' trouble shooting only,for the two valves.
.RUNFOLA ~ & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
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1 MR. MURRAY:
For the total of those two L.)
2 valves.
One of the specific plans that fits under 3
the generic document.
4 MR. ROSSI:
And what you want from us 5
today is agreement to go ott and do the trouble 6
shooting, just tho trouble shooting, and tind out 7
what caused the problem.
8 And then when you find out what caused the 9
problem, you intend to come back and tell us that 10 tha t's what you believed caused it and tell us why 11 you thinx that caused it and then you are proposing 12 or you are intending at that point to get inferences 13 to proceed to fix tne part.
14 Is that what you -- so if you go off and 15 find out that the limit switch isn't adjusted 16 properly, then you will come back to us and get 17 concurrence that that was the problem and then you 18 will go adjust it?
19 MR. WOOD:
That's right.
20 MR. BEYER:
I don't think tha t's quite 21 what we had in mind specifically.
Our thought on 22 this plan was that we had identified several 23 potential causes, and we had an ticipa ted that the (m
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would determine if an adjustment was needed.
k-)
i' 2
If it was out of adjustment, wo would 3
adjust and maybe proceed to verify the other items 4
as well.
5 MR. ROSSI:
So if you are going to make 6
adjustments if it is adjustments only you would make 7
the adjustments and then test it to show tnat that 8
involved the problem and adjustment was done right, 9
and you wouldn't come back to us to get concurrence.
10 MR.
BEYER:
Where wo identified in the 11 plan that it mignt be one of soveral possible causes, 12 we would continue to pursue to the point where we 13 would check each of those causes without coming back 14 to you.
Tha t's wnat we nad in mind.
15 MR. ROSSI:
I see in here a step that says 16 that you are going to the motor horsepower 17 calculations in order to de te rmine if the motor is 18 capable of providing enough torque.
'19 If you were to do that and find out that 20 tne motor norsepower wa sn' t enough, then tna t's a 21 case where you would come bacK to us and tell us 22 that and tnen you would go enange the torque.
23 MR. BEYER:
. Absolutely.
(o) 24 MR. ROSSI:
As part of-trouble shooting if RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
4 68 gx 1
it is an adjustment problem, you would proceed to V
2 fix the adjustment.
If it is 3
MR.
BEYER:
Yes.
4 MR. ROSSI:
If it is a change, repair or 5
modification, those are the cases where you intend 6
to come back and get our concurrence.
7 MR. BEYER:
That's a claritication we want 8
from you.
9 MR. ROSSI:
If you find a flat out broken 10.
part tnat needs to be repaired, what would you 11 intend to do then, come to us first or replace it?
12 MR.
BEYER:
We are prepared to do whatever p,
\\#
13 you ask.
We were looking for some clarification on 14 just wnat type of activities you wanted us to come 15 to you before we proceeded.
In light of the CAL and 16 ene words there, we wanted to msKe sure.
17 MR. ROSSI:
I understand.
I am trying to 18 "igure out wnat it is that we need to decide when we 19 nied to go caucus, and we need a confirmatory action 20 letc9r.
21 MR. MURRAY:
In general what we had said 22 there in the boiler plate document is that wnat we 23 are proposing here is the trouble anooting and that
().
24 we would come back and in a separate interview for RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
69 1
.the corrective action.
)
2 Now, Bernie:ia giving a slight variation 3
on tnat when talking about maxing an adjustment 4
because you start getting into i
5 MR. ROSSI:
It is h'ard to distinguish 6
between trouble shooting and fixing when the problem 7
is the_ adjustment of the limit switch.
I don' t know i
8 where trouble shooting stops an fixingd s ta r ts.
I F
9 guess tuit's what we need to caucus about.
[
10 MR. MURRAY:
We would carefully document 4
11 tnose.tnings.
12 MR. SHAFER:'
I think tha t's why I i:
13
- mentioned, in; fact, if you are going.to replace a
(
14 part -tha t tna t part is-suspect until you have l
15.
identified the root cause of';the failure.
And that-i 16 calla for control.
Okay.
j 17 MR. LONG:
Obviously, if I' find the same j,
- 18 part broxen.in both valves, to me tha t's an 19
- engineering problem we need to resolve two valves-20 that ope ra te the same way.
l 21
~ MR. WOOD:'
Wo.are: certainly open to any 22 suggestions you may have to do this more effectively
~ 23 because we-are learning this interface as well as i ()I 24 you are.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 1
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1 MR. ROSSI:
What wo want to find a most 2
expeditious way to let you go on about your business 3
without losing the information.
Tha t's what we want 4
to do.
5 We want to know the root cause, but we 6
don't want~to hold you up any more than we have to 7.
to get it.
8 Did you have any other documents?
This is 9
the main thing you wanted to talk about'today.
10 MR. WOOD:
Tha t's it.
11 MR. BELL:
This hypothetical adjustment,
{
12 if that adjustment was required to restore the valve
()
13
.to operate, then.once the adjustment was made you 14 would look for additional problems with the valve.
15
.MR.
BEYER:
If we have identified several 1
16 hypotheses, we would continue to check each one.
17 MR. ROSSI:
Every one in here.
j 18
.R.
BEYER:
Yes.
M i
19 MR. BELL:
To ensure that there was 20 nothing else wrong with the valve torque adjustment.
21 MR.
BEYER:
That we have identified.
4 22 That's:why I-wasn't trying to run off'or'suggest 23 that we would run'off without getting your 4
- f. :( ).
24 concurrence.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES.(614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION w
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i 71 1
I just wanted you ~to understand that q
2 tha t's what we had in mind, and if you desire to
{
i 3
more checks, we are certainly willing to --
5 4
MR. ROSSI:
I don't think we know,' hopefully 5'
we will after we caucus.
We don't know the right i
6 way to do this any more than you do, and we are 7
certainly going for the most expeditious way to do
)
8 it correctly.
And tha t's wha t we ~ are doing s o --
s 1
l 9
MR. BEARD:
I think in another meeting-I i
-10 told,the story about'the; weekend that ~
folks n'a d '
you i
11 the-transient here we were on standby for of going L
t j
12 to'another B.and W plant for'wnich turned out to be
()
13 related to an adjustment or may.have been related to
!.j:
14
- an adjustment.
15 And the situation'was that'the licensee i
I j
'16-
- checked the other five of nis. breakers, made
?
l.
17 readjustments and then the vendor came in and said 18 you didn't measure.it right_let alone-adjust it I
19 right_and now it was unclear as to whether that t
20 licensee had one bad breaxer.or all breakers bad.
' 21 ~
-And tha,t' s 'a serious loss _' of :inf orma tion s.
?
i 22
- and_I just caution you that experience tella me
+
l l
.23 adjustments probably should not be made except to-i [)
- (
24 ene extent that it is essential.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 t
COMPUTERIZ8D TRANSCRIPTION i
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MR. ROSSI:
We need to discuss tha t.
This V
2 is where I am coming trom.
3 MR. LANNING:
I have one last question 4
before we recess.
5 When do you expect to have tne next action 6
plans available to discuss with the team?
7 MR. MURRAY:
As soon as we finish with 8
this one.
9 MR. BEYER:
Based upon your acceptance or 10 concurrence with this, we would expect to have more 11 available tomorrow.
12 MR. ROSSI:
We have to decide from the 13 standpoint of naving somebody here to take the 14 transcript.
You are going to want to talk with us 15 tomorrow.
We already have somebody coming tomorrow 16 all day.
17 MR. BEARD:
Tomorrow being Saturday.
The i
18 next question is are we likely to have a meeting on 19 Sunday because if we are going to have a meeting on 20 Sunday for this purpose, we will want to maxe 21 arrangements to have somebody come to do the 22 transcript on Sunday.
23 MR. BEYER:
I would say we are likely to
(^8
,)
24 have a need for a meeting on Sunday as well.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION l
73 r~'
1 MR. ROSSI:
You should arrange to have Y)s 2
somebody come tor a transcript on Sunday.
3 If you don't use them all day wa will nave 4
them come, and they will be here.
5 MR. BEYER:
We may be able to have a 6
better appreciation for tha t tomorrov.
7 MR. ROSSI:
As of now, we need to plan for 8
Sunday.
9 MR. BEYER:
Are we going to reconvene this 10 afternoon?
11 MR. ROSSI:
Yes, we are going to caucus 12 until we are prepared to come back and meet.
And
,m 13 rignt now we are going to take a racess so I think 14 wo are off the record.
15 MR. JACKIW:
One more question.
When do 16 you tninK we are_ going to start on these two valves?
17 MR. LONG:
If I get concurrence to start 18 the action plan, I will nave the MWO's ready in the 19 system Monday.
20 Art Charbanneaux from MOVATS, as far as I 21 Know, is going to be here Monday to discuss wha t we 22 are going to do, and his team will be here Tuesday 23 ready to test Tuesday.
rm
()
24 MR. ROSSI:
One thing that maybe needs to RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
.\\
74 1-be;added to one of these things is a requirement 2
that NRC Region III be informed about the schedule 3
of doing this stuff because you want the option at 4
least of naving somebody there'when it is done.
5 MR. BEARD:
I think tha t's 6-MR. ROSSI:
So that really needs to be in 7
there.
8 MR.
BEYER:
You would say that needs to be 9
addressed in each action plan or part of our 10 guideline?
11 MR. ROSSI:
I think the generic guidance 12 is wnere it ought to go, but it.ought to be an item j
13 in the generic item that NRC Region III.needs to 14 Know in-advance ~ o f.
the. schedule of tne worn so that-15 a decision can be mado about whether they want 16 somebody present when it is done.
17 MR. BEARD:
In other words, you have 18 establioned the schedule, and I think it would.be 19 appropriatt for you to advise Region III.
20 MR. ROSSI:
You may want to thinx about 21 how tofword some of the changes.while we'are 22 caucusing.
i 23 It might be good if you were to thinx
~
()
24 about writing the words out on things that have come
- RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477-L COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I
75 1
up ~here that may require changes.
And then if you l
2 have those ready for.us when we come back from the 3
caucus, that part will go quickly, and we can 4
perhaps get this resolved.
5 Off the record for a recess.
6 (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
l 7
MR. ROSSI:
Are we ready to go on the 8
record.
9 okay.
He within the NRC have met and 1
10 talxed about the two documents that you gave us for 11-our consideration, and we have come to the 12 conclusion that we would like -to see some 13 modifications in the document tha t's referred to as 14 guidelines to follow when trouble shooting and 15 performing investigative actions into the root 16 causes surrounding tho 6-9-85 reactor trip.
17 And in a-couple or minutes J.
T.
Beard is 18 going to go through those specific items with you in 19 some detail.
20 Once we have agreed on the modifications 4
o 21 to'the generic guidelines document,.then we would 22 lixe to make sure that the action plan for the 9
23 auxiliary f oedwater system valve problem analysis is-
. {Y 24
. modified'as necessary to be consistent with the RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)4'45-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
76 1
generic guidelines.
2 After we have come to an agreement on the
~3 guidelines document, we don't_ feel that it is going 4
-to be appropriate for us to approve each action plan i
5 for each-component tha t you are going to work on.
6 We don't want to go through a formal 7
approval thing, but what we would like to do is we 8
would like to see each of these action plans and 9
'have them presented to us in a meeting lixe this so 10 that we will have a chance to comment on them betore 11 you go oft to actually begin the action plan work..
12 I guess at this point we will let J.
T.
i 13.
Beard go through the specific changes that we have 14 for your generic guidelines and then we will go from 15 there.
16 You had a question.
}
17 MR. MURRAY:
Question on the s ta temen t you 18-just made, _you want to get us to modify our 19 quidelines and then if we use those appropriately,
-20
.there won' t be a need for approval of each l
21 individual action plan,.but you do want-us to 22
.present the action plans 23 MR. ROSSI:
- Before you start to do them,
()
I 24 yeah.
'RUNFOLA E ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 2
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COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i
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-1 MR. MYERS:
For comments.
8 2
MR. ROSSI:
For comment and discussion in 3
the meeting, but we aren't going to have a formal 4
sign off approval on it.
5 MR. MURRAY:
No formal sign off, okay.
4 6
MR.:ROSSI:
- But we do want to saa them and 7
have them discussed in a meeting before you do begin 1
8-the work.
Okay.
9
- Now, J.
T.
is going to run through the i
10 modifica tions-that we wou'ld _like to see in the 11 guidelines, and we will see if you have any problems l'
12 with those.
! ()
. 13 MR. BEARD:
Okay.
Let me go through-these 14 improvements to.your general guidelines as a series and then once~ I have covered all of tnem, then, i f 16_
you desire, we can come back and talk about_tne whys
. 17 and wherefores of the changes that.we feel are 18 appropriate.
19 MR. ROSSI:
J.
T.,'can you talk' a little y
20 louder.
s 21 MR. SEARD:
Is that agreeable.to everybody?
j 22 MR.
HELLE:- Sounds' good.
I 23_
MR. BEARD:
We would'like to have
.we
.( )
24 believe ituis necessary that there be a new item one-RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION r
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on the guidelines as an insert not as a replacement l
2 but as an additional item but up front which would 3
read something like what I will now read:
It says 4
for each item on the quarantine list an action plan 5
will be developed which provides the basis for the 6
maintenance work order, MWO.
7 Tne personnel developing the action plan 8
snall nave xnowledge of the design considerations of 9
- the specific item being considered, vendor 10 engineering support, design engineering, we are 11 referring nere to not maintenance engineering, will 12 be utilized as necessary to accomplish this r~S
~
13 requirement.
14 We think it is also important tna t's 15 the end of that new item one.
16 We tnink it is also important to incorporate 17 into this guidelines document another piece of paper 18 which you presented to us a few minutes ago as 19 actually part or what you had labeled the auxiliary 20 feedwater valve problem analysis valve numbers AF 21 599 and 608.
22 The first page of this, page 1 of 1,
which 23 I believe Bernie discussed before Jim Long started
('N, 24 talxing, the first page has items such as numoer one, RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION t
79 r~w 1
collect and analyze information; number two, review L) 2 maintenance, et cetera, et cetera.
3 Tnat first page we think is a very generic 4
document that needs to be as part of a general 5
guidance for all of them.
It is n ci t, in our view, 6
unique to this one problem.
7 MR. BEYER:
Tna t's a proper perception.
8 MR. BEARD:
We thinK it ougnt to be 9
officially retyped and put in the thing.
Okay.
10 Now, along with that there are certain, 11 cnanges we feel are necessary on that page.
Item 12 numoer two of tha t document of the six steps you J
13 nave got should read words something to the effect 14 ot:
Review maintenance and surveillances/ testing 15 history.
Develop a summary to support item number 16 four below.
17 Tnat would be the end of changed item two 18 or step two on that page.
19 MR. MYERS:
A summary of the maintenance 20 nistory?
21 MR. BEARD:
Right.
In other words, the 22 individual who goes out and review the maintenance 23 and testing and whatnot should write a paragraph or (m) 24 something and say what does he conclude.
v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
_-_.-4 80 1
MR.-MYERS:
A summary of that review.
2~
MR. BEARD:-
You understand.
I 3
OkTy.
In item number four should be i
4 revised to read something like:
Based on tne above, 5
develop primary and alternative hypotheses for the 6
root cause of the failure.
i 7
Item number five~after the words that say-8 develop a plan for testing the hypotheses and then j
9 the parenthesis we be'lieve the' sentence needs to be i
10 amended by adding:
Which'would include specific j
11 considerations-that provides armurances that the 4
12 lesser lixely. hypotheses remain te s ta ble.
13 After,that we believe there needs to be an j
14 additional. sentence something lixo:
The plan for 15 testing hypotheses should, to the extent practicable, conditions similar~to those l
16 be performed under the 17 which existed during the June 9,
1985 event.
18 Now, obviously our intent here is to there is a lot i
19 =
simula te to the extent you-could 4
20 of instances on the practical aspect.
4 21 Line,.for example, we discussed earlier F
22 testing under hot conditions versus cold conditions.
f 23 And tha t's the kind of thing we have in. mind here.
()
24' MR. ROSSI:
But it doesn't mean that they RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
('
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1 can heat the plant up.
\\_/
2 MR.
BEARD:
There is no release on the 3
restart of the plant.
4 MR. MYERS:
To the extent practicable.
5 MR.
BEARD:
I think tha t's the. standard 6
pnraseology.
7 MR. WIDEMAN:
So you are saying that even 8
if, I am, even if ASME code I don't know if it says 9
cold testing or something like that, if the 10 requirements are for those conditions, you still what the plant, 11 11 wants us to test it in the 12 possiblo, the pla n t's 'condi tion.
13 MR. BEARD:
The in te n t of this Kind of 14-language is to try to supplement where it may become 15 necessary the existing ASME codes or whatever codes 16 may be applicable but to try and test the things in 17 as close to its service condition as practicable.
18 MR. ROSSI:
See, some of your problema may 19 have occurred only when the plant is hot.
We talked 20 about the packet that the test of these valves was 21 done cold, which maybe we have.to do for code 22 reasons and so forth, but that may not ensure tnat 23 they will work when they have to work.
(,.)
24 And so you ought to give thought to RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
82 1
testing this stuff, testing your hypotheses under
)
2 the conditions t ha t are closest to the way the 3
equipment would have to work.
4 MR.
BEARD:
I am not through going through 5
the changes if you want to get through those rather 6
than get into a lot of discussion because I want to 7
finish.
8 Going back to the main document now which 9
would have this page added into it.
In item number 10 nine, we had already identified that there needed to 11 be some additional language to address the type of 12 as-found conditions tnat would be appropria te to (3
k' 13 electronics equipment and other types.
You may 14 already have adequate words.
15 I believe also that previously we had 16 discussions and item number 14 a new item which 17 generally dealt with the retention, preservation and 18 identification of any components that were replaced, 19 et cetera.
20 MR. HELLE:
Yes.
21-MR. BEARD:
We have an additional new item, 22
'I guess we cuold call it number 15, which would say 23 tha t as soon as the schedule for the corrective (o) 24 actions for an item is e s ta blis hed, the NRC will be RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
83 a
1 advised.
k/
2 And the NRC that we are referring to here 3
may take the form of the resident inspector, the 4
regional staft or us as is convenient.
5 MR.
BEYER:
Tha t's basically a rephrasing of what you 6
MR.
BEARD:
7 had suggested earlier to inform the NRC Region III d
of the schedule of the work.
9 I think it is an implementation of that 10 document.
You may want to look ce t it and see if 11 that is the optimum position for that item to be 12 numbered, but the thought is clear.
('3' 13 OKay.
Then we think there is an 14 additional item, another additional item, that needs 15 to be added.
16 Logically in order maybe it comes before 17 the one we just heard, but nonetheless an additional 18
_ item says the NRC shall be notified once the 19 determination of the root causo of'the malfunction /
20 failure has been made..
21 The root cause including supporting 22 information or justification for the identification 23 of the root cause shall be presented to the fact
(, )
24 finding team as soon as practicable.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
84 1
Now, what this says in effect is when you 2
know'the root cause, we want to be advised.
Okay.
3 We.found the smoking gun, so to speak, and that 4
could be through the-resident or regional staff who 5
will contact us or like we. discussed earlier.
We 6
know what-it is.
7 The second part of this item says as soon 8
as practicablo, which may be the next day or take 9
other format, we would like to have some sort of a o
10 presentation such as in a, meeting like this or the 11-results of your trouble shooting process, what root 12 cause you tound, why you believe that to bo the root
. fk' 13
'cause er causes, et ce te ra so that we can learn'from 14 your experience.
15 And we would anticipate that as your 16 normal process probably already involves there would 17 be some documentation of tho'results of your efforts 4
18.
and that we eventually would probablyLlike.to see 4
.19 the-written report that goes with that, but 20 basically we are saying we would -like to have 21' notification that you found it and then followed as 22 soon as practicable by some discussion as to how'you 23 arrived-that conclus' ion.
lh
'24-MR. ROSSI:
Thatts really.the' key bottom
,RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477-(
COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
.-(
I
~
85 1
line ofEwhat you are going to be doing here.
You y^).
\\_
1 2
are going to have to do the worx.
We can't rollow 3
you around and see what you are doing and watch over 4
your shoulder 'at all times and that kind.of thing, 5
but'the bottom line is you have got to work towards 6'
identifying the root cause and being able to justify
.7-that you Know-what it is.
8
.And all the rest of_this stuft is to-make 4.-
9
_sure that you don't lose the information along the 10
' road that you are going to need to get to tha t 11 bottom line.
12 MR. BEARD:
Okay.
I think another thing 13 that is important to realize is that what we are 14
'trying to do nere is to have the fact finding team 1
15 tnat's been setup by the EDO to be involved in the 16 process of determining the root cause and be 17 informed or what the results are but at-an 18 appropriate level.-
. 19 We do not.want to be regulatory wise 20 involved in the de ta ils every minute, every hour of 21 your trouble shooting process and be involved in 22 every minuto,.every detail of the approval.
23 And.we would like to avoid holding up any i ()
24
' plan-activities to the' extent practical consistent RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION t -
e.,.,
m - = -
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. ~ ~. _.
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=
t 86
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1 to-the chart Mr. Wood gave us.
V 2
We think this is an appropriate. text;that 3
we have laid out for you what we decerived for you 4
'of approving the generic document, of all' reaction 5
plans and in turn. maintenance work orders.and then r
- 6:
' coming back and letting us know what the results are.
7 Let us provide the NRC will.have.to know 8'
through the. notification ~to observe various parts 9.
and. phases of the activity.
And I think tha t's the c
i 10 way'you would want it also.
11 MR. WIDEMAN:-
Who.would you expect would
)
give-the-concurrence on the proposed corrective 12 N-13 action?.
14-MR. BEARD:
What/ proposed corrective 15 action?
i 16 MR. WIDEMAN:
LThe CAL says the team will
' 17_
give. concurrence.
~
18 MR. ROSSI:
. Region ~III'needs to' address 19 w ha t ought to-be done with the CAL.
f 20.
MR. BEARD:
Before1you get to the subject 21 of the CAL, there-is another subject tha t's Ebeen
{
22 raised.
23 It has'been my experience, and I am sure
()[
24 you have too,.that in1certain ca se s.whe re' ;equipme n't -
t f
.RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477
['
' COMPUTERIZED'TRANSCR%PTION
.h L
i',
87
(~S 1
has malfunctioned that you can go back in and sj 2
trouble shoot it.
You can perform surveillance 3
tests, which are not a good device for trouble 4
shooting, but nonetheless that could be a part of 5
your trouble shooting phase, but the end result is 6
you cannot duplicate the tailure.
7 It is either intermittent, gone away or 8
tor.whatever reasons.
Now, for thosa kinds of 9
situations it seems to us that the burden of doing 10 an ernest, indepth investigatory type trouble 11 shooting process is clearly on you folks and would 12 not expect you to say I ran one little test, don' t p
'd 13 find anything and tha t's the end of tha t.
14 We don't think tha t will happen.
But 15 there are be will those cases you can't get there 16 trom from here.
If those cases are, you havo really 17 not identified a root cause.
In those cases, you 18 would expect according to the guidelines that we 19 have identified to you that we think are necessary, 20 we would expect you to come back, present us your 21 process, what you found, why you think you are in 22 the situation you are in and what you. propose to do 23 from there.
<m 1
)
24
.Tha t's just sort of a minor caveat, if you RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
88 fx 1
will, that goes with explaining what you found as a
%-)
2 root cause.
3 Any questions on what we have outlined 4
here before we go to the CAL?
5 MR.
BEYER:
I was not able to write all 6
that down.
Can we 7
MR. BEARD:
Well, you folks are Keeping a a
tape recording of this meeting.
9 MR. ROSSI:
J.
T.,
I think we need to find 10 a way to give them a copy of what we have here 11 marked up so that we can read ~off of it because 12 MR. MYERS:
Or maybe the option would be
'd 13 we type what we think we neard 14 MR. ROSSI:
Probably the best tning to de 15 is give you something enat is marxed up and you can 16 type it.
17 MR. MURRAY:
We would love to have that.
18 MR.
ROSSI:
We will just have to do that 19 and give it to them before we leave.
20 MR.
BEARD:
I think speaking personally 21 here that since there is a tape recording and you 22 people nave the secretarial support to do it that 23 you have everything that you need to proceed, and t's
(,)
24 you recognize tna t you are not waiting for us for RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION l
_. ~
t l'
89 1
some more specific written instructions than what we
- .to-2
.have given to you over tha tape recorder.
3 MR. MYERS:
Could we then have a 4
clarification between you two individuals.
s 5-MR. BEARD:
I am just saying I don't want 6
-you'to come back and sayfwe'are at work stoppage i
7 because you didn't give us a piece of paper.
T 8
MR. MYERS:
I'want to know if ww will'get 4
9 sometning marked _up or not.
10 MR.~ ROSSI:
We1will mark-it up so it can 11 be clearly read.
We may need-a clean copy of your 12 guidelines thing.-
O-13 MR. BURNS:
Do:you want to go off the 14 record tor a-minute?
i 15 MR. ROSSI:
Off.the record.
l 16 (Discussion. held off the record.)
j 17 MR. ROSSI:
Le t's ;go back on the' record 18 then.
We have agreed that: what.We will do to get
.t 19 the-changes to the guidelines to follow when trouble 20 shooting'willbe that the licensee:will get"them 21 from their record of the meeting rather ~ than for.us 22.
to give them a'msekup.
~23' O k a y '. -
Le t's 'see, aru we to the
()
24 confirmatory action letter! discussion now?
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
-. l
90 g-1 MR. MYERS:
I have one question.
de will
(_/
2 probably where it says-notify the NRC, we will 3
probably add a sentence in there because these are 4
guidelines to our people, this communication will be 5
coordinated through and identify an individual in 6
our organization just because it is specifically 7
written to our people and tnat would make sure that 8
the one person who Knows whether it is Region III, 9
the resident or the fact finding team would only 10 have to be one person ratner than the action leaders 11 as nours transpire througn the day or something like 12 that so that would be clear on how our people would
()'
13 notify you.
Is there any objection to that?
14 MR. ROSSI:
Tha t's fine, and J.
T.
did 15 indicate he tried to give you some words that may 16 need some smootning.
It may be desirable so you do 17 have some flexibility as-to the thought that we 18 wanted to get in tnere, but I think the words are 19 pretty good as they are.
So I nope that you don't 20 do too muen word smoothin'g and w ha t you do doesn't 21 cnange the thought significantly.
22 Do you have any problems with anything you j
23 heard at this poin t?
, ()
24 MR. MURRAY:
No, I don't think so.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
91 ej 1
MR.
BSYER:
Sounds good to me.
s.J 2
MR. ROSSI:
we are going to be here all 3
day tomorrow interviewing people so we will be 4
available tomorrow to talk to you about any problema 5
with this tnat you have.
6 Now I guess the next question is the 7
confirmatory action letter.
And, Wayno, do wo need wnether this is an 8
to talk about whether it needs 9
in te rpre ta tion of the confirmatory action letter or 10 whether clarification is in order and how to do that 11 and if we need to caucus to talk about that because 12 maybe we didn't talk about that enough before we O'
13 camo in here feel free to go back and caucus for a 14 few minutes.
15 MR. SHAFER:
We can certainly make every 16 offort to, if, in fact, it is written such that it 17 cannot be interpreted to do just what you propose, 18 then we will cortain make an oftort to try to get it 19 revised to meet that proposal that you have just 20 given.
21 MR. ROSSI:
That might be the smoothest 22 way to do it because that way overybody will feel 23 most comfortable that we are being consistent, but
(,n) 24 and again if you want to caucus and talk about this RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
92 f-1 some more
/
2 MR. SHAFER:
Well, we certainly have to 3
sit down and think out the lettering.
And we can do 4
that and get it changed.
It doesn't involve this 5
meeting, oxay.
G I would say though that you probably would 7
not see it before Monday understanding now that your 8
first job is not scheduled until Tuesday; is tnat 9
correct?
10 MR. WOOD:
Correct..
11 MR. ROSSI:
So tha t would not hold you up.
12 MR. MURRAY:
Wait a-minute.
The job that f
13 we ask about here was not going to get started until 14 Tuesday, but I don't know how these other action 15 plans are going to proceed.
16 If we get this thing ironed out and get 17 your approval tomorrow on some action plans, wo 18 could be going on Monday,or late Sunday or something 19 like that.
20 MR. ROSSI:
-Something else just occurred 21 to me when we came into the room wnat was going to 22 be dono was you were going to proceed with the 23 action plans and then there.was perhaps going to be (m) 24 a hold point when you came to us.to teJ1 us what the v
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
93 1
corrective. actions were.
.2 Where we are now is I guess tnese action
-3 plans could be begun for the1most part, and you 4
probably aren't going to face this problem of having 5
any' consistency with the confirmatory action. letter 6
until you got to the part of the trouble shooting.
7 So I would assume that schedule wise there 8
. probably isn't going to be a problem. or a t leas t 11 9
there-is nobody knows of a specific one yet.
10 MR. MURRAY:
That's true.
s 11 MR. MYERS:
I could interpret the last i
12 thing which specifically ta lks' a bout proposed 13 corrective actions so that We have time to if you r
. 14
- want'to reword it, tine, but we could operate under 15 the way we are talking about here until that rewording 16 or clarification is provided.
17 MR. ROSSI:
Because you aren' t Lgoing to 18
- get.to the corrective action part, strictly speaking, 19 until after the trouble shooting.
20 MR. MURRAY:
Have to do some trouble 4
i 21 shooting-first.'
22 MR. ROSSI:
So schedule wise it doesn't, 23 seem tc'be a problem so it might be a good idea to 4
()
24 talk about revising the confirmatory letter-so RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERJZBD TRANSCRIPTION y
w
,+e r
m-e
94 (m
1 evorybody knows what it is we have done, g
kJ MR.
BURNS:
Just to make it clear we are 2
3 talking about a confirmatory action letter issued on 4
June 10 by Region III by Mr. Keppler.
5 MR. ROSSI:
Now, is there anything else 6
that we need to talk about this.attornoon or tnis 7
evening as the case may be7 8
MR. MURRAY:
Bernie, Jim, do you havo 9
other things that we need to resolve?
10 MR. BEYER:
I am not sure that we nave yet 11 addressed the subject that was brought up earlier 12 about whether we could make an adjustment without O-13 turther concurrence by the team.
14 MR. ROSSI:
Well, see, the wording that we 15 now have in your generic guidelines is intended to 16 cover this because what we nave said is that the NRC 17 shall be notified once the termination of the root 18 cause of the malfunction failure has been made.
19 The root cause including supporting 20 justification for the identification of the root 21 cause shall be presented to the FFT as soon as i
22 practicable.
l one ot the reasons that it
]
23 So what we
()
24 took us so long while we caucused was we recognized I
RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION m
l 95 4
1 tne difficulty of drawing a fine line between l
(
2 trouble snooting and correctivo action.
3 So the key point again is where you do 4
anytning maxe sure you Know what the as-found and 5
record what the as-tound conditions are if you make 6
any of those adjustmenta, and we are not trying to 7
and you don't have to come bacx to us to get 8
approval each time you do an adjustment.
That's 9
just not practical.
4 10 MR. BBYER:
I think I understand.
11 MR. MYERS:
Bernia, does that also addreau i
12 if there is a significant change for some strange
(^d) 13 reason in our action plan for trouble shooting?
14 MR. BEYER:
I would expect tnat it we had 15 a significant change in the action plan, that we 16 would appraise the team before we made that chango 17 and go down a dittorent path.
18 MR. ROSSI:
For the one that you showed us 19 today, and I will poll the team members and maxe 20 sure they agree with this, that one we recognize you 21 are going to have to make some changes to bring it 22 into alignment with the guidelines, but we do not 23 need to see it again before you begin trouble
()
24 shooting.
We are all agreed on that.
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
96 r3 1
MR.
BELL:
Certainly.
O 2
MR. BEfER:
Is it also correct to 3
understand that once we change the guidelines to 4
meet the suggestions that you offer the comments you 5
offered, taen the guidelines also don't have to have 6
-any turther 7
MR. ROSSI:
Well, we would like to seo 8
them and, you know, I don't know that we need to 9
approve them again, but ue want to see them.
10 And we would like to see them soon so that 11 if we have a problem with them, we can resolve it 12 betore you get much further.
13 MR. MYERS:
We will have those typed and 14 bercre they are actually signed.
notore it is 15 actually signed we will check with you to make sure 16 ue picked up all the terminology correctly.
17 MR. II E L L E :
I think we would like to do 18 that tomorrow, right away in the morning.
19 MR. ROSSI:
We will be here tomorrow so 20 tha t won't be a problem.
That will solve that 21 problem.
22 MR. ROSSI:
Are we ready to adjourn?
23 MR. WOOD:
I think there is one morc point
(-)
24 that we should put on the record is that we have RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION
1 97 r-1 added a piece of equipment to the freeze list that b]
2 is different than when we developed, I guess it was, 3
two days ago.
And that is MS 106 is now put on the 4
equipment treeze list.
5 MR. BEARD:
MS 106, maintain steam valve 6
og some sort.
7 MR.
BELL:
Tha t's the steam supply to the 8
auxiliary food pump.
9 MR. WOOD:
Tha t's cor re c t.
10 MR.
BEARD:
I thinx
- t would be worthwhile 11 worn we have a piece of paper with a time and date 12 saying this is our agraod upon list.
O 13 MR. BURNS:
Was that on your list, I may 14 misremember, the first memo you gave us apparently 15 a t ta ched to it was a list.
Is that MS 106 on that 16 list thoro?
17 MR. WOOD:
No, it is not.
It is something 18 that was in the review ot the alarm points and 19 checking of the valve operation times it was noted 20 that that valvo instead of going to a full open 21 position before it turnod around and went closed by 22 tne time points it indicated that it did not go to 23 the full open but it turned around in mid stroxo and f) 24 went to the closed position.
I a
l RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 l
COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION L
r 98 1
MR. MYERS:
We think time wise it looks s
2 like 3
MR. kOSSI:
Okay.
We will add it to the 4
list tnen and, J.
T.,
did you want to maxe a comment 5
about 6
MR. BEARD:
I was just thinking that 7
procedurially attached to the documents you gave us a
today, your generic guidelines that we had so much 9
discussion about it attached to tnat is an equipment 10 freeze list, I guess it is called, with a dato and 11 time on it.
12 It seems to me that for tracking purposes O
k#
13 it might be appropriate to add some place on this 14 page that this item nas now been added to the list 15 and revise the date and time at the top and then 16 roissue that and that continues to be our worxing 17 understanding.
18 MR. WOOD:
We will do.that.
19 MR. WIDEMAN:
We will taxe tha t action and 20 revise this.
21 MR. WOOD:
And provide you that at the 22 same time that we rodo the guidelines.
23 T ha t's all I have.
r'
(,%
7 24 MR. MORRAY:
Anybody else, anything?
RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZBD TRANSCRIPTIOtt 6
99 1
MR. ROSSI:
Okay.
We are finished then.
2 3
Thereupon, the proceedings were 4
concluded at 6:40 o' clock p.m.
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 la 19 20 21 22 23 O
24 RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION a
_.j
a
- ~
r I
100 I
i
-1 CERTIFICATE O
l 2
I, Kim E.
Snyder, a Registered l
l I
3 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for
\\
4 the State of Ohio, do hereby certify-that I took'the 5
proceedings and.tnat the toregoing transcript of j
?
{
6 such proceedings is a full, true and correct i
i
{
7 transcript of my stenotypy notes as so taken.
l' 8
I do further certify that I was called t
l 9
there-in'the capacity of a Registered Professional
{
4 10 Reporter, and am not otherwise intecented in this i
l 11 proceeding.
l I
12 IN WITNESS ~ WHEREOF, I have nereunto set my
)
13 hand and artixed my seal of ottice at Columbus, Ohio, 14 on this
/9 day.ofd 1/L/,
, 1985..
15 16 g/. S N Y D ER,' R e g $b te r e d
}
KIM j'
17
, Professional Reporter, Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio.
{
-18 19 My Commission expires-January 12,.1989.
i 20 21 l
22 i
l 23 l
! ()
24 RUNFOLA A ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 l
COMPUTERIZED' TRANSCRIPTION i
DIRECTIONS FOR MAKING CORRECTIONS If you have any corrections that you wish to make on your transcript, please do so on the following page in the following fashion:
Indicate the page of the correction, the line number, and then the change to be made and the reason for making the change.
Date and sign all correc-tion pages that correspond with your transcript.
O I
i
?
l 1
i l
e 4
Page Line Correction or chanqe and reason therefor l
l l
- ~
j s
i V
p i
V l
l l
l lee l
l Page No.
DATE SIGNATURE
DATE g
INTRAiCOMPANY MEk40RANDUM ED r 2Va2 b-*,ID June 13. 1985 TJ Action Item Lead Individuals FA M John Wood
$U2JE CT Guidelines to Follow when Trouble Shooting or Performing Investigative Actions into the Root Causes Surrounding the 6/9/85 Reactor Trip It is very important that the performance of our investigations do not in any way result in the loss of any information due to disturbances of components or systems. Investigations need to be conducted in a logical, well thought-out and documented manner. To avoid the loss of information and to assure the capture of reliable information, the following guide-lines in addition to the requirements of AD 1844.00 need to be addressed and followed when initiating and implementing an WO.
1)
All W0s relating to the 6/9/85 trip investigation shall be handled as NSR.
2)
Trouble shooting and repair shall be accomplished on separate W0s.
3)
MW0s are to be approved by the Actiori Item Lead individual and reviewed by QC prior to their implementation. Copies of W0s, when approved by the Action Item Lead Individual, shall be forwarded to D.
J. Mominee (Stop 3070). It is the Lead Individual's responsibility to assure that the investigative actions are appropriate, suf ficient, and well defined.
4)
Only those W0s approved by the Action Item Lead Individual and QC may be worked on any of the " frozen systems" identified on the attached list.
5)
Assure that only current drawings and controlled vendor manuals are used.
6)
Consider the need for vendor representatives. Vendor representatives should be used to assist in troubleshooting if appropriate expertise is not available in house. The reps will need to be given specific guidance for what they are and are not to do.
Vendor representatives must follow the guidelint.s of this memorandum.
7)
The WO must clearly document the scope, af fected equipment, and the desired objective of the investigative activity.
l 8)
The sequence of activity needs to be documented on the WO or proce-dures specified in the WO.
If the sequence can be determined prior to the activity being performed, define that sequence and provide a check off for each step.
If the desired sequence cannot be deter-mined previous to the activity, as a minimum define the fundamental sequence to be taken and document each specific step as it is perfomed.
\\
1
/
/
9)
Document on the NWO all as found conditions. Visual inspect and document any missing, loose or damaged components, note positions j
(open, closed, up, down, etc.) abnormal ordinary environmental conditions, operation of cooling devices, water leaks, oil leaks, 4
loose fittings, cracks, evidence of overheating or water damage, cleanliness, bent tubing, fluid levels, etc. Describe the overall condition or appearance. Whenever possible, use photographs to document as found conditions. When considered necessary, retain a sample of fluids or their residue for further analysis, i
- 10) When discrepancies are noted during the investigation, stop work and notify the Action Item Lead Individual. Document the deficiency.
The Lead individual must sign off on the discrepancy prior to contin-uing the investigation.
- 11) Document the results of the investigation on the NWO.
l
- 12) Prior to starting any repair activities the Action item Lead Individ-ual must document that all investigations have been properly completed.
4
- 13) No equipment is to be shipped off site without prior approval of Nuclear Facility Engineering and Quality Engineering. Use the "Q" purchase order process to obtain these approvals.
NOTE:
In all cases, applicable procedure must be followed. The requirements of this memorandum must be communicated to craft i
personnel to avoid any confusion or misunderstandings during i
this investigative period.
JKW/DJM Attachment da d/6 P
I i
i e
b
=
I L_
,6/12/85 f
4:/)0' PM EQUIPMENT FREEZE
$s The following list of items )(the licensee's proposal for continued quarantine:
1.
MFP's Turbine and Controls, 2.
STRCS and associated instrument chanaels 3.
AuxFeed Pump Turbines and Controls 4.
MSIVs including controls - Actuating Circuits, Pneumatic supplies l
5.
S/U Feed Valve SP-7A - and controls 6.
Source Range instrument channels 7.
Turbine Bypass Valve SP-13A2 - Any other components for which there is found an indication of water hammer damage i
i 8.
PORY & Controls and Actuation system 1,
9.
- 10. AF 599 & 608 valves, Actuators and Controls f
This item was released by the Fact-Finding Team:
4 j
1.
SFDS I
This item was added by the Fact-Finding Team:
1.
SW Valve and Controls on AFW alternate supply J
i I
It is agreed that no work will be done in the proximity of, or on, this equipment.
ggfMg l
The licensee agreed to complete a valkdown of the Main Steam System by appropriate personnel to identify any additional damage that may have been caused by water ha m r.
4 The Fact-Finding Team stated that 1
(a) If required for safety, work shall proceed.
(b) Surveillance Requirements of the Technical Specifications i
should be satisfied.
(c) The team should be advised of any actions taken in the two r
areas above.
, per W age c
o CAdlS!W lo^)
y DS n
QM
D E
5 5
T 8
8 1
Y EE
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6 6
A L 1_P tc E
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5
_PH J EE 8
8 A
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P RA 4
4 AD 1
1 2-
_D T
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a E
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6 Eu A 5 u
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8 8
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A A 3
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INTR COhiPANY MEMORAND 'M'
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June 14, 1985 l
To J. K. Wood ng M.[Bajestani
[f J.
SUSJE CT Hypothesis for failure of SG 2 A W Isolation Valve 599 and SG 1 A N Isolation Valve 608
}
Based on the information received during the transient, it appears that both valves torqued out when opening. There are several conditions that could l
causethevalvestotorqueout:i
~~
1.
Improperly adjusted to ue switch bypass contact (this hypothesis covered by Action Item;3 &f5).-
2.
Impropertorqueswitchsetting(thi$hypothesiscoveredbyAction Item 2).
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3.
Wrongorimproperlyadjhstedspring' pack (thishypothesiscovered by Action Item 7).
4.
Failure of motor brake to release when energized (this hypothesis covered by Action Item 4).
.a -
5.
Improper torque switch setting calculations (this hypothesis covered by Action Items 8-11).
6._... Improper torque switch installation (this hypothesis covered by Action Item 6).
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4 1.
AF 599 and 608 are normally locked open valves and were open prior to the transient. During the transient, both valves went shut because of the improper initiation of SFRCS. After the error was corrected and SFRCS was reset, both valves failed to reopen automatically. Operators were sent to manually open the valves;according to the operator, the valves were placed in manual and the handwheel turned in the open direction. The handwheel was hard to turn and was only moved 4 1/2 turn in the open direction. The handwheel was then turned in the close directione 1/2 turn. This was repeated a second time and when turned in the close dir-ection, a rattling noise came from the valve operator and the valve opened.
The actual DP seen by these valves at the time they were attempting to open is unknown but they designed to open against a 1050 psid. At 1515 on 6/9/85, both valves were cycled satisfactorily within their required stroke time per ST 5071.02. At that time S/G pressure was 850 psig.
2.
During the 1984 refueling outage, both valves had the motors and brakes replaced per FCR 83-067.
In addition. AF 599 was disassembled, relubri-cated, all bearings replaced and reassembled. Both valves were cycled per ST 5064.01 (Ctat. Iso. Valve post Maint. test) and the resslts were satisfactory.
3.
When the valves were tested during the 1984 outage, the plant was in Mode 5. therefore, the valves were cold and no differential pressure across them. During the 6/9/85 transient, the valves were hot and a differential pressure existed across the valve disc.
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---________.m-i r
O ACTDON PLAN PLAN NUMBE A PAGE
i sPEciric oe;EctivE To determine the root cause of motor operated valves AF'599 and 608 failure to open.
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l-STEy PRIME ASSKINED START TARGET
' DATE I
8 peutesER RFSPOceSistLITY TO DATE DATE COMPLETED F
1 Before beginning troubleshooting work. docusent the as-found J. Long condition of the valves (limit to those conditions which can I
be recorded without changing conditions - i.e.. valve position.
general condition. environmental conditions).I 2
The torque switch settings were changed for MF 599 and 608 J. Long under FCR 84-039 (1.5 open and 1.0 closed). These settings
~~
should be verified.
3 The stem thrust load should be measured to verify the thrust J. Long calculation. MOVATS (Motor Operated Valve Analysis & Test s
System) should be used to measure valve stem thrust. time of control switch actuation, and dynamic motor current).
4 MV 599 and 608 are fast speed operators. A magnetic brake J. Long~
is provided to oppose the notor inertia after the power is removed from the motor. The brake and motors were replaced
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).
ACTION PLAN PLAN NUMSE R PAGE.
. TlTLE oATE RE PA RE o PREP y
AFW SYSTBE VALVg PROBtJBt ANALTSIS (AF 599 and 608) 6/_14/85 L_pajgegeni_'
scEcicec concrevE To determine the root cause of motor operated valves AF 599 and 606 failure to open.
STEP PRIME ASSIGNED START TARGET
' DATE
- ACT90N STEPS founesEn RFSFONSlalLITY TO DATE DATE COMPLETED 4
laat refueling outage. These brakes _should be checked for proper operation.
5 Verify number of turns on the handwheel of the valve from J. Lona fully closed position the limit switch contret 33/AC bypass the torque switch contact 33/TO.
6 With valve in midposition (spring pack relaxed) verify that'the J. Long torque switch is not preloaded.
7 Verify by visual inspectionI the spring pack model number.
J. Long.
t.
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If the heavy spring number 60-600-0068-1 is used - no i
problem. However, if light spring number 60-600-0062-1 is used, the' torque switch should prevent valve opening.
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ACTION PLAN PLAN NUMBE R PAGE sure 12 3
o' 3 TITLE oATE PREPARED PREPARED sy A W SYSTEM VALVE PROBLEM ANALYSIS (AF 599 and 608) 6/14/85 M. Bajestani SPECIFIC osJECTIVE To determine the root cause of motor operated valves AF 599 and 608 failure to open.
STEP NUMBER A TION STEPS PRIME ASSIGNED START TARGET DA RFSPONSIBILITY TO DATE DATE COMPLETED C8 Motor horse power calculations should be, performed in order J. Long to determine if the motor is capable of providing m gh torque.
c9 Actuator size should be checked to determine if it is capable J. Long of operating against a 1050 psi differential pressure.
010 Tortional stem stress and tensile stress should be checked J. Long to verify that these stresses do not exceed the ASME design allowable values.
011 To.que dial setting,s should be estaolished by opening and J. Long closingpositionsbasedontheextremestesAoperationloads expected d'uring the hot and pressurized condition.
I NOTE:
Follow guidelines for troubleshooting / investigative work.
55deps~8-11 are not dependent on Steps 1-7 and can be performed in any order.
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