ML20205C780
| ML20205C780 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 08/06/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-341 ML, NUDOCS 8608130269 | |
| Download: ML20205C780 (200) | |
Text
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OR G NA_
1O UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-346-ML TOLEDO EDISON COMPANY, et al.
(Davis-Besse Nuclear Power Station) l D -
LOCATION: SANDUSKY, OHIO PAGES: 260 - 509 l
DATE: WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 6, 1986
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D AG-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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Ow w 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (202)347-3700
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1 1 Ul! I T E D STATES OF A l4 E R I C /, i i
- l . U C L E /1 R Ts E G U L A T C f. ) C0hhISSIOh a L E f- O it E ThE ATOHIC SAFETY A i4 D LICENSING GOARD l
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- I S IN THE liATTER OF: :
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6 TOLEDO EDISON CO., ET AL. : DOCKET M U I/.5 E R i
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7 ( D A \ I S -:; E S S E NUCLEAR P C U E f. STATICN): ,
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-X f L SANDUSKY HIGH SCHOOL i RCOM 300 l
- 10 2130 HAYES AVENUE
- SANDUSKY, OHIO 31 i
U E D !s E S D A Y , AUGUST 6, 1966 l
1; l ThE HEARING Ih THE A E G V E -E !, T I T L E D MATTER l 11 .
C o h V E h E L. AT 6: 30 /, . l . .
i- 14 LEFORE:
I ,
JUDGE i.E L E t; F. HOYT, C H/ IR MAN 16 JUDGE d. R. KLINE
! ATutIC SAFETY Ai4 0 L I C E l. S I N G UCARD l 'i U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIGN U A S H l.1 G T C M , D.C. 20555 i
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1 A P P E /. R A N C E S :
2 D U _S E U S L E _9 E_L IC E U S EE.2.__.lO LER.9_EklS 9 U _C R2 -
3 JAY E. SILBERG, ESQ.
l DAVID .i . A . LEUIS, E S t, .
4 ShAL, P I T Ti'.A N , POTTS & TROUSRIDGE 1L00 F. S l R f_ E T , h.W.
5 WASHII:GTON, D.C. 20036 ,
l 6 PRESENT.
TED ti Y E R S , DIRECTOR OF L I C E l; S I N G ,. TOLEDO l 7 EDISON CO.
i KENNETH l. A U E R , LEGAL DEPARThENT, TOLECO O EDISON CO. l 5 O li_L E b6 LE_kE _lb L_5161E _.RE _RLilO ,
L E AR _ LLIE RVEL R J1 :
10 A L Tli C N Y J. CELELREZZE, JR., ES(.
11 ATTCRNEY GENERAL OF OHIO 12 EY JACK A. VAN KLEY, ES(. '
S li A R O N 5IGLER, E S C; .
13 ASSISTANT ATTORNEYS GENERAL STATE OFFICE TOUER 14 30 EAST DRCAD STREET, 17TH FLOOn C O L U i.C U S , OHIO 43215 15 LY ELLARD LYMCH, ES( ..
10 ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL I O.D.N.R., DIVISION OF WILDLIFE I 17 FOUNTAIN S(UARE, BUILDING C )
COLUI,005, GHIO 43224 lE i .O h _ RE U 6 L E _ Rf _IU E_19 LE D R_C R6 LillR U _ E P R 15 5 6 Ei_ E b E E C- 1 :
LG YEnhY LODGE, ESC. l TOLEDO, OnIO l 1.1
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( 9 U_kEL AL E_uE_LR&_6 L R _IU.E _C G L; S U B E RE l l
cc LE6C.UE_ RE_OblL: l i
l 23 GENE \IEVE COOK I ARNOLD GLEISSEC l c <. vCROTHY AUSTIN l l CLEVELAND, OHIO b
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262 1 C _ DJi _ I_ E _ b _. I _1 2
hlI L. ti b 5 CBESE CSRES 52 6E 3 (VAN KLEY/SIGLER) (LOCGE) ( S I L E E P. G )
l t, i LASILK 264/279/281/426 270/272 5 h E i< D E li D G R F 265/435 i H Ei! C R C h 280/281/285 279 270/272 6 290/423/433 ,
~/ J/CKSON 338 381 hdTt4ir,1NCYOl.363 368 L E Et,N E T T 412/414 is k I D E l 4 413/421 5 U A L L /, C E 420/423/429 433/435 10 t L /ti; D 434 400/402 TILL 348 11 L I n h El, A hl. 355 SUIh 269/271
]2 R d C B Ld S. REDLllCL 31;60 13 V i t! !; L E Y / S I G L L T, SILEERG JUDGE K L llJ E 1/ 2 r. E T 'i E R I N G T O N 386 382 h E !! L il G l; 333 15 D is fiC l Gil P S E 16 UA\IC C I T L I t, e l ~/ LY l '. . . L u c C E. 437 LY h ,. S I L L E r; G 440 ll ulhEGI CBOEh REDinRCI lb RUSSELL l., LItilEK 20 Li F. i! . LGDLE 454 496 BY l '. F . S 1 L L E E,G 464 T.1 DlGECT CBD.fE li[klCECI SfGB915 22 R 0 G E is L I N ! *ili/,h 2; SY I;R . SILLEKG 498 BY i;,, V Aie KLEY 500 ,
24 EY U.i, . LOCGE 502 l i
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A 263 1
BKhlalIS b MG ER f; E C_E I V E L1 STATE OF O li 1 G E 's . D 300 l
3 STATd O t- GhlC cX. G 322
! S.O.S. EX. 1 370 I I-l E L AlrlG S. R&DE l 6 DICECT T E S T Il60N Y OF CA\ID blTLIN 439 D . i,E C T T E 5 'l l i,0 t; Y OF f. U S S E L L li . L I l ,6 E F. 459
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3 JUDGE H 0 Y T :- -
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i 4 HEARING TO ORDER. LET THE. RECORD REFLECT THAT -~ THE
.S~ HEARING BEGAN YESTERDAY ND CONTINUES THIS 2
l 6 MORNING,-AND ALL THE PARTIES'TO THE HEARING ARE
$ 7' PRESENT IN THE HEARING' ROOM'. ;
i l 6 TO THE PANEL- I WILL ADDRESS THESE. ,
j 9 REMARKS. YESTERDAY = MORNING 1IN.THE.BEGINNING OF 4
I
) 10 THIS HEARING, YOU TOOK AN OATH HERE: WITHLME.. IL !
l 11 WILL REMIND YOU, L A D I-E S AND GENTLEMEN, ~enAT~YOU i
j 12 ARE STILL UNDER THAT OATH. *
()
f
'13 VERY WELL. AT THE TERMINATION 10F. ,
! 14 YESTERDAY'S HEARINGS, I.BELIEVE WE WERE READY. FOR
!' 4 15 THE EXAMINATION BY THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE I
~ 16 STATE OF OHIO AND O T H E R. ' I N T E R V E N O R S .
i.
I 17 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO- P I C K THAT UP, SIR.
I 16 I BELIEVE YOU WERE Q U E S T. I O N I N G , J M I S S E SIGLER.. I b j 19 THINK WE ENDED WITH GROUNDHOGS. I t .
j 20 - - -
} 21 CROSS-EXAMINATION. l 22 BY MS. SIGLER: .
I 4
{ 23 Q. I GUESS WE CAN STARTnWITH GROUNDHOGS -
1 i- < .
! 24 TODAY. MISS WASILK, I JUST ,.H A V E 10 N E ' L A S T. QUESTION jb J
- 25 ABOUT GROUNDHOGS. 4 -I F
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.._.-.__..)_,,_._-_., , _ _., _ ,.._ _2.,_.,;-, . - . . _ . , . - - , . . . . _ , _ , . . . . . - -
265 1 ISN'T IT TRUE THAT A BURROWING ANIMAL.
2 SUCH AS GR0llNDHOGS ARE QUITE COMMON AT THE SITE?
3 A. (MS. SCOTT-WASILK) YES, THEY ARE.
4 Q. MR. HERDENDORF, YOU STATED IN YOUR S TESTIMONY THAT PARTICULAR GRASSES OR VEGETATION 6 COVER HAD BEEN CHOSEN FOR THE TOP OF THE BURIAL 7 CELLS, AND THEY HAD BEEN RECOMMENDED BY THE U.S.
8 DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
9 A. (MR. HERDENFORF) THAT'S CORRECT.
10 Q. THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DOESN'T 11 SITE LANDFILLS, DOES IT?
12 A. THEY DO NOT WHAT?
13 Q. SITE LANDFILLS.
14 A. I hAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE IS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE S0ll CONSERVATION SERVICE 16 IN OAK HARBOR, AND IN THAT CONVERSATION THEY 17 AGREED TO DESIGN AN APPROPRIATE COVER FOR THIS 18 PARTICULAR LANDFILL AND TO SUBMIT A DESIGN.
19 Q. THEY DON'T ISSUE PERMITS FOR LANDFILLS, 20 DO THEY?
21 A. NOT TO NY KNOWLEDGE.
22 Q. OKAY. THEN THE VEGETATIVE COVER IS NOT A 23 RECOMMENDATION FROM AN AGENCY THAT SITES 24 LANDFILLS; CORRECT?
2S A. THAT'S CORRECT.
266 1 Q. YOU ALSO MENTIONED VELOCITIES OR RUN-OFF 2 SPEEDS.
3 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
4 Q. AND WHAT WOULD YOU -- WHAT ARE THE 5 VELOCITIES OR RUN-OFF SPEEDS? WHAT DID YOU 6 CALCULATE THEM TO BE FOR THIS SITE?
7 A. I DID NOT MAKE CALCULATIONS FOR THIS 8 SITE.
9 0. THEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE?
10 A. I FEEL THAT THE VELOCITIES WOULD BE QUITE 11 M i ll I M A L HERE; PRIMARILY SLACK WATER AREA. THE 12 REASON FOR THAT BEING THE FACT THAT THE ROUTE 2, j 13 UNDER MOST CONDITIONS, EVEN THE 1972 FLOOD PERIOD, 14 DOES NOT FLOOD. THAT MEANS THERE WOULD BE NO 15 CONTINUOUS FLOW THROUGH THE SITE SO THAT WE WOULD 16 HAVE FAIRLY BACK UATER AREA, SLACK WATER AREA, 50 17 THAT THE FLOWS !! O U L D PRobABLY BE IN THE RANGE OF, 18 OH, I -- WELL, LESS THAN A FOOT PERCENT.
19 Q. OKAY. BUT YOU DIDN'T REALLY CALCULATE 20 THIS. THIS IS JUST A GUESS ON YOUR PART?
21 A. NO. IT'S A JUDGNENT.
22 Q. A JUDGMENT. ALL RIGHT.
23 ISN'T IT TRUE THAT NO MATTER WHAT 24 PRECAUTIONS ARE TAKEN THAT CLAY AND TOPSOIL WILL
)
25 EVENTUALLY ERODE 7
267 1 MR. SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. WHAT DO <
2 YOU MEAN BY " EVENTUALLY"? ARE WE TALKING GEOLOGIC 3 IONS OR --
4 MS. SIGLER: I MEAN EVENTUALLY 3 WILL ERODE JUST OVER TIME.
6 THE WITNESS: OVER TIME TWO 7 PROCESSES CAN HAPPEN. EITHER IT CAN ERODE OR CAN 6 ACCRETE.
9 MR. SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. COULD 10 YOU DEFINE WHAT ACCRETE MEANS FOR THE UNINITIATED?
11 JUDGE H0YT: WHY DON'T YOU PICK 12 UP SOME OF THOSE ON YOUR REDIRECT, MR. SILBERG.
7x 13 MR. SILBERG: THANK YOU.
14 8Y MS. SIGLER:
15 Q. WELL, DOESN'T THE REGULARITY AND THE 16 FREQUENCY OF THE FLOODING INDICATE THAT THERE WILL 17 BE EROSION IN THIS SITE OVER TIME THE WAY IT'S 18 DESIGNED?
19 A. IF I CAN GO BACK TO MY EARLIER STATEMENT 20 0F TWO PROCESSES LIKELY OCCURRING DURING A 21 FLOOCING EVENT, THE TWO PROCESSES COULD BE EITHER 22 EROSION OR ACCRETION, OR SEDIMENTATION'S ANOTHER 23 WAY TO THINK OF ACCRETION. THESE WATERS WILL BE T' 24 CARRYING FAIR AMOUNT OF SEDIMENT IN THEM. THEY'RE 25 VERY MUDDY IF YOU 06 SERVE THAT SITE DURING A FLOOD
268 1 PERIOD. THIS BEING A SLACK WATER AREA, AFTER THE 2 FLOODING EVENT, THAT SEDIMENT IS OFTEN LEFT 3 BEHIND, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE CAN BE A BUILDUP OF 4 MATERIAL IS ANOTHER POSSIBILITY.
S Q. BUT EROSION IS A POSSIBILITY?
6 A. CORRECT.
7 MS. SIGLER: WE HAVE NO MORE 8 QUESTIONS.
)
JUDGE HOYT: MR. LODGE, YOU HAVE 10 BEEN PRINCIPALLY THE EXAMINER FOR THE OTHER 11 INTERVENORS HERE. DO YOU HAVE ANY --
12 MR. LODGE: WE HAVE NO I I 13 QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR, 14 JUDGE H0YT: THEN UE'LL CONTINUE 15 WITH THE NEXT QUESTION.
16 MR. VAN KLEY: YOUR HONOR, 17 YESTERDAY WE HAD SOME AREAS OF INFORMATION THAT 18 THE WITNESS PROMISED TO GET US. YOU THINK NOW 19 MIGHT BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO GO INTO THAT?
20 JUDGE H0YT: YES, I THINK YOU'RE 21 CORRECT. THIS MAY BE A GOOD TIME TO DO THAT.
22 MR. SILBERG, SINCE THOSE QUESTIONS WERE 23 DIRECTED TO MOST OF THE --
MANY OF THE MEMBERS OF 24 THE FANEL, PERHAPS IF YOU COULD FOCUS IN BY ASKING 2S THE QUESTIONS DIRECTING THE INDIVIDUAL TO THE
269 1 AREAS OF INTEREST WHICH WERE PRESENTED YESTERDAY.
2 MR. SILBERG: CERTAINLY. THANK 3 YOU, JUDGE.
4 - - -
5 EXAMINATION 6 8Y MR. SILBERG:
7 Q. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS 8 CONCERNING A POND WHICH IS LOCATED TO THE WEST OF 9 ThE TWO CELL --
WHICH IS LOCATED TO THE WEST OF 10 THE TWO CELL BURIAL UNIT. IF ONE LOOKS AT FIGURE 11 1-1 0F LICENSEE'S PREPARED TESTIMONY. MR. SWIM, 12 HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO DETERMINE WHEN THAT POND WAS ig) s 13 CONSTRUCTED AND HOW IT CAME INTO EXISTENCE?
14 A. (MR. SWIM) YES, I HAVE.
15 Q. COULD YOU PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION FOR 16 US?
17 A. YES. THE POND TO THE WEST WAS A BORROW 18 FIT, AND IT WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM DECEMBER 6, 1970 19 TO D E C Elib E R 12Th, 1978.
20 Q. AND HOW DEEP IS IT?
21 A. THE LOWEST ELEVATION IN THE PIT IS 567.
22 Q. THAT'S I.G.L.D.
23 A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
3 f~'s 24 Q. MS. WASILK, IN YOUR ROLE AS HEAD OF THE 25 ENVIRONf1 ENTAL MONITORING PORTION OF THE TOLEDO
270 1 EDISON NUCLEAR MISSION, HAVE YOU OR YOUR PEOPLE 2 OBSERVED ANY VARIATION IN THE WATER LEVELS IN 3 THOSE PONDS?
4 A. (MS. WASILK) THE VARIATIONS IN THE WATER 5 LEVELS OF THE POND THAT WE HAVE TYPICALLY SEEN
]
6 OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS ARE FLUCTUATIONS AROUND 7 A PLUS OR MINUS A HALF-A-FOOT.
8 JUDGE H0YT: WOULD YOU SPEAK UP 9 JUST A LITTLE LOUDER PLEASE AND DIRECTLY TO THESE 10 MICROPHONES?
11 MS. SCOTT-WASILK: DO YOU WANT ME TO 12 REPEAT WHAT I JUST SAID?
'[ 13 JUDGE H0YT: I WANT YOU TO 14 REPEAT THE FIGURE, THE LAST FIGURE YOU GAVE.
15 THE WITNESS: PLUS OR MINUS 16 HALF-A-FOOT.
17 JUDGE H0YT: HALF-A-FOOT. THANK 16 YOU.
19 6Y MR. SILDERG:
20 0. OKAY. MR. HENDRON, BASED ON THE 21 INFORMATION PROVIDED BY MR. SWIM AND MS. WASILK, 22 COULD YOU GIVE US YOUR OPINION, YOUR JUDGMENT, AS 23 TO WHETHER THAT POND COMMUNICATES WITH THE BEDROCK
'f r1 l
2 t. AQUIFER?
25 A. ( f1 R . liEtJDRON) MY OPINION IS THAT THAT
i s
271 1 POND DOES NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THE BEDROCK 2 AQUIFER.
2 3 Q. WHAT DO YOU BASE THAT OPINION ON? 4 4 A. IT'S BASED ON OPINION. --
THE 0 PINION IS
< 5- BASED ON THE BOTTOM ELEVATION OF ELEVATION.567,
~6 WHICH IS A B O U.T SEVEN FEET ABOVE THE BEDROCK 7 SURFACE AT THAT POINT. THE SEVEN FEET 0F_ SOILS
) 8 SHOULD BE, WELL, ADEQUATE TOEWITHSTAND THE UPLIFT-9 PRESSURES IN THE BEDROCK WATER AT THAT POINT. 50-i j 10 I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY DIRECT COMMUNICATION i
11 BY EXCAVATION, NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS' 1 <
12 COMMUNICATION RESULTING FROM UPLIFT.AND RUPTURE OF
() 13 THE SOIL BY THE WATER PRESSURE IN THE-ROCK.-
14 Q. THANK YOU.
! 15 THERE WERE A SERIES OF QUESTIONS' ASKED J
1
- 16 WITH REGARD TO THE DEAERAT-ING POND WHICH .I S 17 LOCATED AT THE SAME LOCATION WHERE THE SINGLE 18 CELL, BURIAL CELL, WOULD BE LOCATED. l
) 19 MR. SWIM, COULD YOU TELL ME WHEN THAT
, p 20 POND WAS CONSTRUCTED AND HOW IT CAME INTO l
. 21 EXISTENCE?
i 22 A. (MR. SWIM) IT WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1978.
)
23 Q. AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
i 24 A. FOR THE PURPOSE MR. HENDRON STATED ,
7 25 YESTERDAY.
i I
27?
1 Q. AND HOW DEEP IS THAT POND?
2 A. THE LOWEST ELEVATION OF THAT POND IS 3 569.S GLID.
4 Q. OKAY. MISS WASILK, WHAT VARIATIONS HAVE 5 YOU OR YOUR STAFF NOTED IN THE ELEVATION OF THE 6 WATER IN THAT POND?
7 A. (MS. SCOTT-WASILK) THE ELEVATIONS ARE 8 S I t4 I L A R L Y FLUCTUATING AROUND PLUS OR MINUS A 9 HALF-A-FOOT.
10 Q. MR. HENDRON, BASED ON THIS INFORMATION, 11 COULD YOU GIVE US YOUR JUDGMENT AS TO WHETHER THIS 12 POND COMMUNICATES WITH THE BEDROCK AQUIFER?
13 A. (MR. HENDRON) SIMILARLY, MY JUDGMENT ON 14 THIS POND IS IT DOES NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THE 15 DEDROCK AQUIFER.
16 Q. A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS WERE ASKED WITH 17 REGARD TO MONITORING WELLS. FIRST, WE WERE NOT lb ABLE IN THE PERIOD AVAIL /.BLE TO COME UP WITH A 19 LIST OR A MAP OF ALL THE MONITORING UELLS THAT ARE 20 ON ThE SITE. THERE ARE NO MONITORING WELLS THAT 21 ARE CURRENTLY -- OPERATING CURRENTLY, BEING 22 MONITORED ON A REGULAR BASIS AT THE SITE.
23 MR. HENDRON, COULD YOU PROVIDE FOR US THE
/~'s 24 C0lSTRUCTION PROCESS, HOW THOSE MONITORING WELLS (s_
25 ON THE SITE WERE CONSTRUCTED?
.I
273 1 A. THE f10NITORING WELLS THAT WE'RE TALKING 2 ABOUT WERE ALL INSTALLED AND SCREENED IN THE 3 BEDROCK AQUIFER EENEATH THE SITE. THEY WERE 4 TYPICALLY DRILLED ti l T H AIR ROTARY DRILLING S TECHNIQUES.
6 THE WELL CASING WAS INSTALLED FROM THE 7 BOTTOM OF THE PARTICULAR 50REHOLE. THE SCREEN 8 PORTION E X T E ti D E D TO WITHIN ABOUT TWO FEET OF THE 9 BEDROCK SOIL CONTACT. THERE WAS A SILICA SAND 10 MATERIAL PLACED IN THE ANNULAR SPACE BETWEEN THE 11 WELL SCREEN AND THE BORE HOLE TO ABOUT THE TOP OF 12 THE SCREEN PORTION. A FOUR-FOOT SEAL THEN WAS xm
( ) 13 PROVIDED FROH THE TOP OF THE SILICA SAND UP INTO 14 THE SOIL DEPOSITS. THE SEAL WAS BASICALLY A 15 BENTONITE RICH MIXTURE OF CLAY SOIL AND THE 16 BENTONITE, AND THEN THE SPACE AGOVE THAT WAS 17 FILLED WITH THE NATIVE SOILS.
lb C. WHAT TYPE OF CASING WAS USEC IN THOSE 19 WELLS? .
20 A. TYPICALLY WE USED THREE-INCH DIANETER PVC 21 CASANG.
22 Q. TO DATE WHAT IS THE NEAREST HONITORING 23 WELL LOCATION THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED?
r^ 24 A. THERE IS A MONITOR WELL --
I BELIEVE THE 25 fl U H B E P, IS MW4 --
THAT'S LOCATED IN THE NAVARRE
274 1 MARSH DIKE AT A D I S T A tl C E OF ABOUT SEVERAL HUNDRED 2 FEET FRON THE SITE AREA WE'RE LOOKING AT.
3 JUDGE H0YT: CAN WE DETERMINE, 4 MR. SILBERG, IF THAT IS EAST OR WEST OF THAT S BURIAL SITE?
6 MR. SILDERG: YES. THAT IS EAST 7 ON FIGURE l-1. THE DIKE WOULD BE ALONG THE b RIGHT-HAND PORTION OF THE WATER --
THE DRAINAGE 9 DITCH THAT HAS THE IDENTIFYING ARROW PROPERTY 10 LINE. AND I BELIEVE THE MONITORING WELL IS 11 LOCATED SOMEWHERE NEAR THE PLACE WHERE THAT 12 DRAINAGE DITCH TAKES A TURN TO THE RIGHT, TURN TO I 13 THE EAST.
14 JUDGE H0YT: DOES THAT IDENTIFY 15 IT FOR YOU?
16 MR. VAN KLEY: YES. THAT LEADS TO 17 A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS.
16 JUDGE H0YT: I'M GOING TO GIVE 19 YOU THAT OPPGRTUNITY, BUT FIRST I WANT MR. SILBERG 20 TO ANSWER ALL THOSE QUESTIONS THAT WERE LEFT 21 HANGIHG YESTERDAY.
22 MR. VAN KLEY: SURE.
23 JUDGE H0YT: I WANT TO SEE IF (
,- 'S 24 HE*S FINISHED. MR. SILBERG7 l
25 fir . SILBERG: I THINK THOSE ARE
~
275 1 ALL THE QUESTIONS.
2 WAIT. I'M SORRY.
3 JUDGE H0YT: BEFORE WE BEGIN 4 TODAY'S CUESTIONING ON THE NEXT SERIES, WHY DON'T S YOU COVER THE CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU WOULD 6 LIKE TO DO ON THOSE PARTICULAR RESPONSES.
7 MR. VAN KLEY: YEAH, I'LL BE HAPPY 8 TO.
9 JUDGE H0YT: YOU'LL HAVE THAT 10 SAME OPPORTUNITY, MR. LODGE.
11 MR. VAN KLEY: THERE IS ONE OTHER 12 AREA THAT WE ASKED THEM ACOUT YESTERDAY THAT I f l 13 THINK THEY WERE GOING TO GIVE US INFORMATION ON 4
14 TCDAY, buT I CAN FINISH THE CROSS ON THIS FIRST.
15 IT'S A DIFFERENT AREA.
16 dUDGE H0YT: WHAT AREA WAS LEFT 17 OUT THIS M O R N I t!G ?
18 MR. VAN KLEY: MR. HENDRON STATED 19 HE WAS GOING TO GET SOME INFORMATION ON LAND 20 FILLINGS FOR TODAY.
21 MR. SILUERG: I'M SORRY. THAT'S 22 CORRECT.
23 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU 7'N 24 HAVE THAT AVAILACLE AS WELL, MR. SILBERG?
(
25 MR. S I L E, E R G : I DON'T KNOW.
276 1 WE'LL HAVE TO ASK MR. HENDRON.
2 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT, MR.
3 HENDRON. UE'LL GET TO YOU IN JUST A tiOMENT.
4 BY MR. SILBERG:
5 O. THERE WERE CUESTIONS ASKED ABOUT THE 6 CARLYSS, LOUISIANA HAZARDOUS WASTE SITE AND 7 UHETHER YOU Ki1 E W OF ANY CTHER HAZARDOUS WASTE 8 SITES THAT WERE LOCATED IN 100-YEAR FLOODPLAINS.
9 MR. SILBERG: WAS IT SOLID WASTE 10 OR HAZARDOUS WASTE, 14 R . VAN KLEY?
11 I4 R . VAN KLEY: IT WAS SOLID WASTE.
12 bY MR. SILDERG:
( ) 13 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION?
14 A. ( tiR . HENDRON) WELL, I THINK IF I COULD 15 MAKE A COMMENT, I THOUGHT WE WERE LOOKING FOR 16 EITHER SOLID OR HAZARDOUS WASTE, ANY LANDFILLS IN 17 THE 100-YEAR FLOODPLAIN. THE CARLYSS SITE THAT I 10 14ENTIONED YESTERDAY WAS, IN FACT, A HAZARDOUS 15 WASTE AND IS A HAZARDOUS WASTE SITE.
20 ti R . VAN KLEY: THE HAZARDOUS WASTE 21 IS A SOLID WASTE, 50 YOU'RE RIGHT, IT DOES INCLUDE 22 HAZARDOUS WASTE.
23 THE WITNESS: (MR. HENDRON) 24 OKAY. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WASN'T OVERSTEPPING 25 ThE SCOPE OF THE OtJESTION HERE. WE HAD A VERY
~
277 1 8RIEF TIME TO GET SOME INFORMATION TOGETHER, AND I 2 CAN PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION GIVEN A LITTLE MORE 3 TIME ON TWO SITES. ONE IS CARLYSS, AND THE OTHER 4 IS THE PORT ARTHUR SITE, PORT ARTHUR, TEXAS SITE.
5 THE INFORMATION THAT I WAS ABLE TO GET IN
{
6 THE TIME SINCE Y E S T E P. D A Y IS THAT BOTH OF THESE 7 SITES HAD DIKES BUILT AROUND THEM TO PROTECT THE 8 SITE AGAINST THE 100-YEAR FLOOD, SO THE ORIGINAL 9 SITE GRADES WERE BELOW THE 100-YEAR FLOOD. I WAS 10 NOT ABLE TO DETERMINE IN THE TIME SINCE YESTERDAY {
11 WHETHER OR NOT THE ORIGINAL SITE GRADES ARE UITHIN 12 THE TEN-YEAR FLOODPLAIN. WE -
I HAVE SOME PEOPLE
'jm
) 13 WORKING ON THAT PROBLEM RIGHT NOW TO TRY AND SEE 14 IF WE CAN COME UP WITH AN ANSWER SOMETIME TODAY, 15 BUT I WAS NOT ABLE TO GET AN ANSWER THAT I FEEL 16 COhFORTABLE WITH UP TILL NOW. ;
17 FURTHER ON THAT, JUDGE H0YT, THE 100-YEAR -
16 FLOOD AT PORT ARTHUR IS ELEVATION PLUS 12. IT'S A 19 COASTAL PLAIN AREA. THE SITE GRADES ARE ABOUT 20 ELEVATION SIX. 50 THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL CIKE 21 THAT WAS BUILT THERE, AND I WOULD SUBMIT THAT THE 22 CONDITIONS ARE --
MAY BE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'RE 23 LOOKING AT AT DAVIS-BESSE.
f'] 24 JUDGE H0YT: I WONDER IF THAT I
25 ISN'T SUFFICIENT INFORMATION. I DON'T WANT TO
278 1 PURSUE THIS TO THE ULTIMATE UNLESS YOU CAN GIVE ME 2 SOME BASIS UFON WHICH YOU FEdL IT'S NECESSARY.
3 MR. VAN KLEY: I DO HAVE A FEW 4 QUESTIONS AEOUT THE LANDFILLS, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY S NECESSITY FOR HIM GOING BACK AND GETTING MORE 6 INFORMATION.
7 JUDGE H0YT: YES, I'M INCLINED b TO AGREE WITH YOU, COUNSELOR. I THINK THAT WOULD 9 BE A SUFFICIENT RESPONSE TO THAT, AND I THINK THAT 10 DOES COMPLETE ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE LEFT 11 HANGING FROM YESTERDAY.
12 MR. VAN KLEY: ALL RIGHT.
I 13 JUDGE H0YT: IS THAT CORRECT, OR 14 DO YOU RECALL ANY OTHERS? I DON'T.
15 MR. VAN KLEY: I RECALL A QUESTION 16 ABOUT THE ELEVATION OF THE WATER IN THE MONITORING 17 WELLS, BUT I GUESS I KIND OF TAKE IT THAT YOU 18 DON'T HAVE THOSE.
15 MR. SILLERG: I CAN ASK, YOU 20 KNOW, THE WITNESSES TO PUT THAT ONTO THE RECORD, 21 UUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT I N F O P. M A T I O N .
22 JUDGE H0YT: IF HE CAN FIND THE 23 WELLS, I WOULD DOUBT WE COULD GET ANY FURTHER 24 INFORMATION ON IT.
t 25 NR. SILDERG: NOW, IT'S POSSIDLE
279
.c 1 THAT ONE COULD GO 6ACK HISTuRICALLY AND DIG OUT 2 THE INFORMATION WHEN THOSE WELLS WERE BEING 3 MONITORED, BUT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT 4 OVERNIGHT.
5 JUDGE H0YT: ARE YOU CURRENTLY 6 MONITORING THIS NW4 WELL?
7 MR, SILBERG: NO.
8 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT.
5 MR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. I'LL START 10 UITH MY CROSS-EXAMINATION, IF IT PLEASES YOUR 11 HONOR.
12 JUDGE H0YT: THAT WOULD BE ON cm
( ) 13 QUESTIGN NUMBER --
14 NR. VAN KLEY: WELL, 15 CROSS-EXAMINATION ON THE NEW ITEMS THAT WERE 16 6ROUGHT I is .
17 JUDGE H0YT: YES. OH, I'M 18 SORRY. YOU'RE CORRECT. WE WILL COMPLETE THAT 19 FIRST. YOU'RE RIGHT. GO AHEAC.
20 - - -
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION 22 GY Mk. V A ll KLEY:
23 Q. ALL RIGHT. I'LL START WITH THE POND TO 24 THE LEFT OF THE TWO CELL AREA. I GUESS MAYBE 25 MS, WASILK WOULD DE THE PERSON TO ANSWER THIS
280 1 QUESTION, AND THAT IS: HOW DEEP IS THE WATER IN k.- 2 THE POND TO THE LEFT OF THE TWO CELL AREA? l 3 A. (MS. SCOTT-WASILK) IF YOU'LL GIVE ME A 4 MINUTE, I CAN CALCULATE IT. l 5 Q. ALL RIGHT.
6 WHILE SHE'S CALCULATING THAT, WHY DON'T 7 WE JUST GO ON TO MR. HENDRON HERE FOR A MINUTE AND 6 ASK MR. HENDRON: DG YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT
)
9 WELL, DO YOU KNOW HOW THE POND ELEVATIONS --
THE 10 WATER LEVELS IN THE POND ELEVATIONS HAVE BEEN 11 MEASURED? ARE THESE CASUAL OBSERVATIONS, OR /sP,E 12 THEY ACTUALLY MEASURED AT REGULAR FREQUENCY?
A f ) 13 A. THEY ARE OBSERVATIONS OF THE WATER LEVEL 14 IN THE POND.
15 Q. ALL RIGHT. 50 THAT SOHEONE WHO WOULD 16 HAPPEN TO GO PAST AND SEE THE POND WOULD NOTICE 17 h0W HIGH IT WAS?
lb A. THAT'S CORRECT.
1S C: . MR. HENDRON, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY M 0 ti l T O R 20 WELLS ON THE SITE THAT ARE BOTTOMED IN THE GLACIAL 21 MATERIALS AT THE SITE?
22 hR. SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. ARE WE 23 TALKING ABOUT NCNITORING WELLS THAT ARE CURRENTLY 24 OPERATING?
25 MR. V A t4 KLEY: NO. I'M TALKING
4 281 t
i
- 1 ABOUT ANY MONITOR WELLS THAT HAVE18EEN INSTALLED.
2 A. (MR. HENDRON) IN-THE GLACIAL SOIL l
{ 3 DEPOSITS?
I ,
j 4 .Q. YES, AS OPPOSED TO THE BEDROCK.
1 i S A. NONE .THAT I'M AWARE OF.
l 6 Q. MS. WASILK, 00 YOU HAVE'THE ANSWER TO- t i
} 7 THAT QUESTION NOW7 i .
l 8 A. (MS, SCOTT-WASILK) IT'S APPROXIMATELY l- . .. ,
j 9 FIVE FEET AT THE1 MAXIMUM' DEPTH.
i 10 Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW THE DEPTH OF THE l
11 DEWATERING POND?
l ,
3
- 12 A. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY THREE FEET AT- ITS 2 1
! 13 MAXIMUM DEPTH.
i
) 14 Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME MOVE ON TO MR.'HENDRON r
! 15 AGAIN, AND LET ME ASK YOU A 'FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT l
! 16 THE TWO SITES THAT YOU HAVE DISCUSSED.TODAY.
j 5 4
17 LET'S START WITH THE PORT. ARTHUR SITE. WHAT KIND
) 18 OF A FACILITY IS THE PORT ARTHUR SITE?
19 A. (MR. HENDRON) THAT'S A HAZARDOUS WASTE l
l 20 FACILITY.
i i 21 Q. IS IT A LAND BURIAL SITE? 3
]
l 22 A. YES, IT 15. '
i I
l 24 A. BASICALLY L'ANDFILL CELLS.
i i 25 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHETHER. ;
^
l .
t
282
~
1 THESE LANDFILL CELLS HAVE BEEN ELOODED SINCE THE
/ I N S TA L L A T I 0 f1 0F THE HAEARDOUS WASTE FACILITY?
_ 2 3 A. I DON'T HAVE INFORMATION ON THAT, NO.
4 Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION 5 AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS PARTICULAR LANDFILL HAS 6 RESULTED IN CONTAMINATION OF GkOUNDWATER OR 7 SURFACE WATER?
8 A. NONE THAT I'M AWARE OF, NO.
9 0. ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE 16 CARLYSS SITE FOR A lil N U T E . YOU'RE AWARE, OF 11 COURSE, THAT IN 1960 THE CARLYSS SITE WAS FLOODED?
12 A. THAT WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME. I WAS NOT AT f
{N) ,
13 THE SITE AT THE TIME.
14 Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU AWARE OF A LARGE FISH 15 KILL THAT OCCURRED WHEN WATER FROM THE SITE WAS 16 PUMPED INTO AN A0dOINING BAYOU AFTER A FLOOD IN 17 THE 1960'S?
18 A. NO, I'M NOT.
19 Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU AWARE OF 20 C 0 f: T A M I N A T I O N IN G R O U i: D W A T E R MCNITORIllG WELLS 21 0FF-SITE OR A WELL O F F -S I T E WHICM HAS DETECTED 22 FHENYLS?
23 MN. SILDELG: EXCUSE ME. I'M gN, 24 GOING TO OBdECT TO THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING. I
\ ,'
25 JUST --
I DON'T SEE A tl Y RELEVANCE TO A HAZ/RDOUS
283 1 WASTE SITE IN LOUISIANA WITH DIFFERENT KINDS OF 2 WASTES AND DIFFERENT CONDITIONS TO THIS 3 PROCEEDING. I SIMPLY DON'T KNOW WHERE UE'RE 4 GOING.
S MR. VAN KLEY: WELL, IF I COULD, 6 YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT MR. HENDRON HAS BEEN 7 ARGUING, Ok, AT THE VERY LEAST, I F.P L Y I N G THAT THIS 6 SITE HAS BEEN LOCATED IN A FLOODPLAIN, AND 9 THEREFORE, SITES OF THIS NATURE CAN BE LOCATED IN 10 FLOODPLAINS CONSISTENT WITH THE PROTECTION OF THE 11 HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE LIVING NEARBY.
12 MR. SILBERG: THAT WAS IN
() 13 RESPONSE TO A CUESTION FROM YOU. IT HAS NOTHING 14 TO DO WITH THIS PROCEEDING.
15 dUDGE HOYT: COUNSELOR, CAN WE 16 LIMIT IT DOWN TO --
I THINK YOU'VE EXPLORED IT 17 ABOUT AS FAR AS WE CAN GET.
18 MR. VAN KLEY: YEAH. THAT WAS MY 19 LAST (UESTION, YOUR HONOR.
20 JUDGE H0YT: WELL, THEN, WE 21 DON'T REALLY HAVE AN ISSUE, DO WE?
22 MR. VAN KLEY: RIGHT.
23 JUDGE H0YT: BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT w 24 GOING TO ASX ANY MORE QUESTIONS IN THAT AREA.
/
25 f tR . VAN KLEY: NO, I'M NOT.
.. . - . _ - - . - . ~ . _ _ . -
_. _ ~.
~
3-
"g. 7 1 . ;-j -284:
y
,. , 1 ,
'h- S. _. .s_
1 i
JUDGE H O Y.T :~
/
> -I.THINKt THAT
, - r t
- 1. . O
~2~ ANSUERS IT. I WOULD[LIKE TO MOVE O'N A S QUICKLY-AS .
73 PO SIBLE.
/ '
- 4 MR., VAN KLEY: THAT COMPLETES MY 4
( S QUESTIONING ON- THE_ ADDITIONAL I tells ~n TH A T WERE- -
6 BROUGHT.UP 1'H I S MORNING.- -
'l- 7 7 . dVDGE HOYT: . VER Y . W E L L . . NOW WE ,
I -
() .
6 CAN BEGIN.
, 9 < 0,O E S THAT.ALSO INCLUD$ YOURS, M R .. LODGEM' ,
, 10 MR. LODGE: YES.
a.
11 JUDGE HOYT: VERY.WELL. THEN
- l}
l 12 YOU CAk BEGIN WITH THE NEXT-QUESTION FROM THE -
13 DIRECT TESTIMONY OF YESTERDAY, h M E N E V'E R' YOU'RE-1 :, .
14 READY.
, e .
./ . .
MR. VAN KLEY:'
15 IF MY' CALCULATIONS
- . 'q -
16 ARE CORRECT, YOUR HONOR, I- THINK WE?RE.ON -QUESTION [
- t l 17 6 NOW. - "
YES,-WE ' DUST MADE
~
16 JUDGE H O Y T :t '
i 19 THAT DETERMINATION ALSO.
20- / MR. VAN KLEY: I*M-GOING TO.. DIRECT f
21 MY QUESTIONS FOR NUMB.ER 6 TO MR. HENDRON,' W H O . D I D ', .
] 22 I GUESS,- ALL ~ OF THE TESTIFYING U N D E R ' Q U E S T I 'O N J6 . .
23 - - - /
G 24 CROS'S-EXAMINATION
, O e 25 BY M R .' VAN KLE Y :' y .- j
. .i p ,
._____._d_'_..--._,.....,_-.
- . - . - - , . . - . ,i..-,,,,,--._- _ , , . _ , ~ - - , - , - . . , , - , ,,r.. ,
285 1 Q. MR. HENDRON, YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN 2 ENGINEERING; IS THAT CORRECT?
3 A. (MR. HENDRON) I'M A GEOTECHNICAL 4 ENGINEER, THAT'S CORRECT.
5 Q. YOU ARE NOT A HYDROGEOLOGIST; IS THAT 6 CORRECT?
7 A. I HAVE COURSE WORK AND SIGNIFICANT 8 EXPERIENCE IN GROUNDWATER HYDROGEOLOGY, BUT I'M A 9 GEOTECHNICAL ENGINEER.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT. 50 THE ANSWER IS, NO, YOU ARE 11 NOT A HYDROGEOLOGIST?
12 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
( ,) 13 Q. IN FACT, YOU'RE NOT EVEN A GEOLOGISir ARE 14 , YOU?
15 A. A GEOTECHNICAL ENGINEERING IS WELL 16 VERSED, WELL TRAINED IN GEOLOGY. I --
17 Q. AGAIN, THE ANSWER IS N0?
18 MR. SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. COULD 19 WE LET THE WITNESS FINISH ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS?
20 MR. VAN KLEY: IF HE WOULD ANSWER 21 MY QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF GOING ON A TANGENT, IT 22 WOULD BE FINE, BUT HE'S NOT ANSWERING THE 23 QUESTIONS.
,- 24 JUDGE H0YT: COUNSELOR, I'LL
~
25 MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.
e t
4 286 !
l .- BY MR.~ VAN KLEY:
i .
l d 2 Q. ALL~RIGHT. LET'ME'ASK YOU THE 0,U E S T I O N "-
3 AGAIN.
I 4 YOU ARE NOT A GEOLOGIST; IS.THAT C O R R E C T 7 '.
i
! 5 A. I ~ AM A GEOTECHNICAL ENGINEER, SO I AM NOT- ,
6 A GEOLOGIST.
7 Q. .ALL RIGHT. THANK-YOU.
f 8 ARE YOU FAMILIAR'WITH THE; GROUNDWATER S INFORMATION CENTER LIBRARY? .
5 10 MR. 5ILBERG: I'M SORRY.- 'WHAT !
J i 11 WAS --
s
, 12 BY MR. VAN KLEY:
13 Q. YES. THE. GROUNDWATER 'I N F O R M A T I O N 2 C E N.T E R -
t 14 L I B R A R Y ', ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH TH AT?' r 15 A. I AM NOT. I I
16 Q. LET ME MOVE INTO A FEW' QUESTIONS ABOUT. .
i
-l 17 THE BEDROCK. I BELIEVE YOU'VE-TESTIFIED.ABOUT THE /
l 18 BEDROCK. U 4 .:
19 A. I HAVE. -
1 20 Q. 'THE BEDROCK IN THE AREA O'F ' T'H E J BURIAL i
21 SITE IS ~ VERY HIGHLY FRACTURED, :I S.- TH A T _T R U E ? ,
! 22 A. THAT'S TRUE.-
23 Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WATER M O V E S. -E A S I L'Y-4 THROUGH VERY~ HIGHLY-FRACTURED: BEDROCK; . I S N ' T ' T H'A T .
- 25 CORRECT?
.., ,.....,...-,..,_.m.- .
- , ~ . _ , __..._s -,
287 1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
2 C. IN FACT, LARGE AMOUNTS OF UATER MOVES
{
3 EASILY THROUGH FRACTURED BEDROCK; IS THAT CORRECT?
4 A. WELL, YOU REALLY HAVE TO DEFINE WHAT YOU S MEAN BY "LARGE AMOUNTS OF WATER." "LARGE" IS A 6 SUBJECTIVE TERh, AND I CON'T MEAN TO BE 7 ARGUMENTATIVE, BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE TYPES OF 8 PERMEABILITIES THAT WE LOOK FOR IN A HAZARDOUS 9 UASTE PROJECT, THIS ROCK IS VERY HIGHLY PERMEABLE, 10 AND IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT, THEN THE 11 TERM "LARGE" IS APPLICABLE.
12 Q. I THINK THAT WILL DO.
( ) 13 ONCE WATER GETS INTO A VERY HIGHLY 14 FRACTURED BEDROCK, THE MOVEMENT OF THAT WATER 1S THROUGH THE BEDROCK IS OFTENTIMES UNPREDICTABLE; 16 ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
17 A. IN A BEDROCK FORMATION SUCH AS THE ONE WE 10 HAVE AT THE SITE, IT IS HIGHLY FRACTURED, AND THE 19 FRACTURE SPACES ARE A FEW INCHES TO A FEW FEET 20 APART, SO IN THE MASS, THE liO VE M E N T OF GROUNDWATER 21 THROUGh THAT SORT OF FORMATION REALLY IS FAIRLY 22 PR$DICTABLE.
23 Q. IF I RECALL, YOU HAVE PREDICTED THAT ANY 24 WATER IN THE BEDROCK UNDER THE BURIAL SITE WILL 25 COME OUT SOMEUHERE IN THE LAKE, AS I RECALL, IN
288 1 THE --
THE BEDROCK OUTCROPSr I THINK YOU CALLED 2 IT; IS THAT RIGHT?
3 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
4 Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE 5 " BEDROCK OUTCROPS"? IS THAT THE SAME THING AS THE 6 REEFS IN THE LAKE?
7 A. YES. THESE ARE THE AREAS WHERE BEDROCK 8 OUTCROPS IS ON THE BOTT0fi 0F THE LAKE WITH LIMITED 9 SEDIMENT OVER THE TOP OF IT.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT. THE REEFS IN LAKE ERIE ARE 11 PRIME UALLEYE SPAWNING AREAS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
12 A. UELL, SPEAKING AS A WALLEYE FISHERMAN, I I ,j 13 WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. I'M NOT A BIOLOGIST.
14 Q. YOU'D SAY, THOUGH, THAT IT'S COMMON 15 KN0 FLEDGE THAT THAT IS THE CASE?
16 A. I WOULD THINK 'S O , YES.
17 Q. ALL RIGHT. SO ANY CONTAMINATION ThAT 16 OCCURRED IN THE BEDROCK UNDER THE BURIAL SITE 19 UOULD COME UP -
COME OUT IN THESE REEFS; IS THAT 20 CORRECT?
21 A. THAT'S NOT CORRECT.
22 Q. OKAY. UHY DO YOU SAY THAT IS NOT 23 CORRECT?
^'
24 A. WELL, YOU KNOW, YOUR HYPOTHETICAL IS THAT 25 THERE WILL BE POLLUTIOt LEAVING A SITE AND GETTING
- , i
~
289:
l ~I N THE BEDROCK, AND I WOULD AGREE TO-ANSWER-THAT
_ (~~)
/- -2 H Y P O T H E T I Cs.L QUESTION THAT THE' GRADIENT O'F . FLOW IN .
3 THAT BEDROCK IS VERY LOW. THE VELOCITY'OF-FLOW IN 4 THE BEDROCK IS IN THE ORDER OF TEN FEET PER YEAR,-
5 AND WE'RE GOING TO MONITOR -THIS SITE. SHOULD.--
6' UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES THAT I QUITE FRANKLY CAN.'T .
-7 CONCEIVE RIGHT NOW, BUT SHOULD CONTAMINANTS GET IN r
8 THE BEDROCK BY SOME MEANS, THEY WOULD BE DETECTED, 1
9 AND THE RATE OF FLOWo0F THE. GROUNDWATER IS SO SLOW 10 THAT THIS IS THE TYPE '0 F SITU TION WHERE CLEAN-UPS 11 ARE --
ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL.
12 Q. 50 YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT IF THE
() 13 CONTAMINATION OCCURS, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO INTERCEPT 14 'I T BEFORE IT HITS THE LAKE. .I S THAT WHATEYOU'RE 15 TELLING ME?
16 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
17 Q. AND YOU'RE ALSO ASSUMING THAT YOU'LL'GE' 18 ABLE TO FIND THE C,0NTAMINATION ONCE IT.GETS. I N'T O '
19 THE FRACTURED BEDROCK. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE 20 TELLING ME?
h 21 A.- THAT'S CORRECT. ,
22 Q. DO YOU K N O W . ' W H A T . T_ H E -- -- ' W E L L ,. FIRST OF 23 ALL, DO YOU KNOW WiiAT.A PIEZ0 METRIC LEVEL-- IS?
p 24 A. .WELL, Y E S'.
\j 25 Q. ALL-RIGHT. D0 YOU;KNOW'WHAT'~THE
_ (.
__.._ __ . ~ . _ _ , . . .
a
~
i <'
PIEZ0 METRIC L E V E L' I S FOR THE BURIALLSITE?
~
1 ,
f)
' ib/ ,2 A. WELL, I. ASSUME Y.OU'RE TALKING ABOUT-3 PIEZ0 METRIC-LEVEL IN THE-BEDROCK.- ;
j 4 Q. CORRECT.
5 A. OKAY. Y E S., I HAVE G O.T AN APPROXIMATION l.
l 6 - OF THAT'.
L
~
7 Q. ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T Y00 TELL U S '.W H AT
, 8 -THE APPROXIMATION IS. . '
9 A. THE PIEZ0 METRIC LEVEL, OR, AS I PREFER'TO I 10 CALL ITr POTENTIOMETRIC-LEVEL AT~THE - - WITHIN THE SITE THAT'S'BEING CONSIDERED IS'ABOUT, ELEVATION
~
- 11 12 571 OR 572.
1
- 13 -Q. SO THAT IS O N L Y - A B 'O U Ti T W O FEET BELOW1THE 14 SURFACE OF THE GROUND; IS .THAT RIGHT?~
i ..
4 15 A. YEAH. THE GROUND SURFACE IS 575, S O:
I 16 SPECIFICALLY IT'S THREE-'TO FOUR FEET BELOW THE.
i 17 GROUND SURFACE.
16 'Q. ACTUALLY THE GROUND SURFACE -IS ABOUT.574 -
- 19 AND A HALF, ISN'T IT?
20 A. OKAY.
21 Q. 50 IT'S ABOUT TWO-AND-A_-HALF' FEET BELOW.
f 22 THE SURFACE. -
23 A. YEAH. '
I 24 Q. WHY DON'T YOU.TELLLME THE --
WHA.TEVER 25 INVESTIGATIONS YOU HAVE'DONE ON'THE' GLACIAL TILL=
t* f 9 e%- t-v -~
w e y*, 9* we - -
e~e-e9 m e -ten -
S--e*ry ee-Wv- + 9e- --P -*
- t "t sr "P>~F+ 4----?e**
m -- ,
291 1 OR THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSITS AT THE BURIAL 2 SITE.
3 A. THERE WERE FIVE SORINGS DONE BY BOWSER 4 AND WARNER. I BELIEVE THOSE BORING LOGS WERE 5 SUBMITTED. THE SAMPLES WERE TAKEN, CLASSIFIED.
6 SOME RELATIVELY CRUDE WATER LEVEL MEASUREMENTS 7 WERE MADE IN THE BEDROCK, AND INDEX PROPERTY 8 TESTING WAS DONE ON THE SAMPLES RETRIEVED AS WELL 9 AS FIVE PERMEABILITY TESTS PERFORMED ON 10 UNDISTURBED SAMPLES OF BOTH THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE 11 AND TILL DEPOSIT.
12 IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE RECENTLY HAD SOME
(, 13 SPECIFIC GRAVITY MEASUREMENTS MADE OF THE 14 GLACIOLACUSTRINE AND TILL DEPOSIT SAMPLES.
15 Q. WHAT WAS THE THIRD THING THAT YOU SAID 16 AGAIN, THE ONE AFTER THE CRUDE MEASUREMENTS OF THE 17 BEDROCK ELEVATION?
]
18 A. I BELIEVE I INDICATED THAT THERE WERE 19 PERMEABILITY TESTS PERFORMED, INDEX PROPERTY 20 TESTS, WHICH ARE WATER CONTENT, LIQUID AND PLASTIC 21 LIMIT TESTING, AND GRADIATION TESTING OF THESE 22 SOILS. AND I MENTIONED THAT WE DID SOME SPECIFIC 23 GRAVITY TESTING ON BOTH DEPOSITS.
24 C. ALL RIGHT. ARE THESE THE TESTS THAT ARE 25 REFLECTED IN TABLE 6-l?
2S2 1 A. YES.
? Q. AlL R IC HT . ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE l
3 MENTIONED ARE REFLECTED IN TA6LE 6-l?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. SO ALL THE TESTING THAT YOU HAVE JUST 6 DISCUSSED WAS DONE ON THE FIVE BORINGS THAT YOU'VE 7 REFERRED TO?
8 A. YEAH. I USED --
I USED THOSE BORINGS AS 9 A BASIS TO FORM THIS TABLE.
]
10 Q. AND THAT'S THE LIMIT OF THE INVESTIGATION ll YOU'VE DONE ON THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSIT IN THE 12 GLACIAL TILL AT THE SITE?
I J 13 A. WITHIN THE CURIAL SITE ITSELF, YES. I 14 EELIEVE THAT WAS THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR QUESTION.
15 Q. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU PERSONALLY TAKE THESE 16 60 RINGS?
17 A. No, I DICN*T.
18 Q. WHO DID?
19 A. AS I INDICATED, THE BORINGS WERE DONE BY 20 THE FIRM OF BOWSER-WARNER OUT OF TOLEDO.
21 Q. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THE BORINGS WERE 22 TAKEN?
23 A. NO, I W A S f; ' T .
24 Q. DO YOU KNOW THE METHOD BY WHICH THEY WERE N m- '
25 TAKEN?
2S3 1 A. I BELIEVE THE METHOD IS INDICATED TO SOME 2 EXTENT ON THE BORING LOG, AND I DID DISCUSS THIS 3 WITH ONE OF THE ENGINEERS AT BOWSER AND WARNER, 4 AND, YES, I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE METHOD THAT WAS 5 USED.
6 Q. ALL RIGHT. I THINK IT MIGHT BE EASIER IF 7
7 I WOULD GIVE YOU A COPY OF THE BORING LOGS SO THAT 8 YOU'D HAVE SOMETHING TO REFER TO.
9 JUDGE H0YT: COUNSELOR, DO YOU 10 INTEND TO INTRODUCE THESE BORING LOGS?
11 MR. VAh KLEY: YES.
12 JUDGE H0YT: YOU HAVE MARKED IT IL ,-
13 THEN.
14 MR. VAN KLEY: YES, I HAVE MARKED 15 IT.
16 dUDGE H0YT: THANK YOU.
17 BY MR. VAN KLEY:
18 0. THESE BORING LOGS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS 19 STATE OF OHIO EXHIBIT D.
20 WOULD YOU REFER TO THOSE BORING LOGS, 21 PLEASE, AND TELL ME THE METHOD OF SAMPLING?
22 A. OKAY. THE METHOD OF SAMPLING IS SHOWN 23 UNDER THE SAMPLE NUMBER TYPE, AND THESE SAMPLES 24 WERE TAKEN WITH A SPLIT BARREL SAMPLE, OR IT'S L'
25 TYPICALLY ALSO REFERRED TO AS A SPLIT SPOON
2S4 1 SAMPLE.
2 (. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE SPLIT 3 SPOON METHOD OF SAMPLING, PLEASE?
4 A. A SPLIT SPOON METHOD OF SAMPLING, IT'S A S STANDARD A.S.T.M. SAMPLER. A.S.T.M. IS THE 6 AMERICAN SOCIETY OF TESTING MATERIALS. IT HAS A 7 TWO-INCH OUTER DIAMETER AND A ONE-AND-THREE-EIGHTS U INCH INNER DIAMETER. IT'S A THICK-WALLED SAMPLER.
9 THE SAMPLER IS PUT DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE 10 BOREHGLE AND IS DRIVEN WITH A 140-POUND HAMMER 11 DROPPING 30 INCHES.
12 DURING THE PROCESS, THE NUMBER OF BLOWS
( 13 RECUIRED TO DRIVE THE SAMPLE EACH SIX INCHES IS 14 RECORDED, AFTER THIS IS DONE, ThE SAMPLER IS 5 PULLED FROM THE HOLE WITH THE S0ll SAMPLE WITHIN 16 ThE SAMPLER. SCREWED CONNECTIONS ON SOTH ENDS ARE 17 TAKEN OFF, LEAVING A CYLINDRICAL BARRE.L THAT IS 16 SPLIT IN TWO. IT'S SPLIT IN HALF. THIS BARREL IS 19 THEN OPEN, AND THE SAMPLE IS TAKEN FROM THAT --
20 FROM ThAT SPLIT BARREL.
21 Q. THESE ARE NOT CONTINUOUS SAMPLES, ARE 22 THEY?
23 A. IN THIS BOREHOLE, NO. THEY DID NOT TAKE 7 ,
24 CONTINUGUS SAMPLES.
25 O. THEY D I DN 'T TAKE CONTINUOUS SAMPLES IN 1 - -
2S5 l ANY OF THE BOREHOLES, DID THEY?
2 A. NO, THEY DID NOT.
3 Q. YOU'VE INDICATED THAT THE SAMPLER IS 4 DRIVEN DOWN 6Y HAhMER; WAS THAT RIGHT?
5 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
6 Q. IN DRIVING DOUN THE SAMPLER IN THIS 7 METHOD, IT IS POSSIBLE TO DISTURB THE SOIL AS IT
& IS SEING DRIVEN DOWN; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
9 A. WELL, BY DEFINITION, THIS SAMPLE --
THIS 10 SAMPLER TAKES DISTURBED SAMPLES OF SCIL, DISTURBED 11 IN THE SENSE OF STRENGTH, DISTURBED IN THE SENSE 12 0F PERMEABILITY, AND DISTURBED IN THE SENSE OF
) 13 COMPRESSIBILITY CHARACTERISTICS, BUT IT TAKES WHAT v
14 WE PREFER TO CALL THE TACK SAMPLE IN TERMS OF THE 15 STRAT0 GRAPHIC PRESENTATION OF SOIL THAT IT GETS UP 16 IN THE BARREL.
17 O. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY DISTURBANCE IN THE 18 TERMS OF COMPRESSIBILITY?
IS A. WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT THE SOIL THAT COMES 20 UP INTO THE SAMPLER IS EITHER MORE COMPRESSIBLE OR 21 LESS COMPRESSIBLE THAN THE SOIL IN THE GROUND. IN 22 THE INSTANCE OF VERY STIFF CLAYS SUCH AS THOSE WE 23 HAVE TO SITE, I WOULD EXPECT THAT THE SOIL IAMPLER g 24 YOU GET IS MORE COMPRESSIBLE THAN THAT THAT YOU 25 GET IN THE GROUND.
1
. -= -. _ . . - ~ . .
k 2S6
'l Q '. ' HOW DOES THE COMPRESSION-OCCUR?'
fx k-) 2 A. I'M NOT SURE -I UNDERSTAND THE' QUESTION.
3 Q. OKAY. WHAT IS IT-ABOUT THE TAKING 0F A
~4 SAMPLE USING THIS METHOD T H'A T C A.U S E S THE INCREASE 5 OR DECREASE IN COMPRESSIBILITY?
6 A. WELL, I SAID THIS IS A. THICK-WALLEDL
-7 ' SAMPLE OR A THICK-WALLED SAMPLER, AND-THE THICK i
WALL CAUSES STRESSES IN THE' SOIL THAT DIST'URS 8
t 9 THE -- DISTURB THE SOIL.
t 10 Q. IT DISTURBS -TH E ' S O I L ? -
i
+
11 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
12 Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT CAUSES THE- INCREASEgDR, 13 -I GUESS, THE CHANGE IN PERMEABILITY:USING-THIS 14 SAMPLING METHOD?
15 A. THE DISTURBANCE CAUSED ~BY THE-STRESSES 4
16 IN --
DURING THE SAMPLING.
17 Q. I'M SORRY. I. DIDN'T CATCH THAT.
18 A. AGAIN, IT'S JUST SIMPLY --
THE BASE 19 REASON IS BECAUSE OF THE HIGH STRESSES CAUSED B Y:
20 THE SAMPLER IN THE SOIL.
21 Q. THIS IS A STRESS;.FROM THE-HAMMEREPOUNDING <
f 22. UOWN?
YEAH, THE STRESS AS~THE SAMPLERS 24 DRIVEN IN THE GROUND.
25 Q. JUST-BY LOOKING'AT'THE'SE. BORING LOGS,'YO'U 1
2p7 1 CAN'T TELL, CAN YOU, WHETHER THE SAND FOUND IN 2 THESE BCRING LOGS IS LAYERED OR FOUND IN FISSURES 3 OR JOINTS, CAN YOU?
4 A. WELL, THE WAY THAT THE DESCRIPTION IS 5 GIVEN HERE --
THERE IS A STANDARD METHOD FOR SOIL 6 CLASSIFICATION. AGAIN, IT'S AN A.S.T.M. STANDARD.
7 AND WHEN YOU SEE THE INDICATIONS, THE SAND AND 8 GRAVELS AS THEY OCCUR IN THIS DESCRIPTIONr WHAT IT 9 MEANS IS THAT THE SAND, GRAVEL, DO NOT OCCUR IN 10 LENSES AND LAYERS, THEY OCCUR IN THE MATRIX OF THE 11 SOIL.
12 Q. ISN'T IT THE CASE THAT WHEN A BORING LOG 13 IS FILLED OUT USING THIS METHOD, THAT THE PERSON 14 FILLING CUT THE LOG WAS MERELY NOTING THE PRESENCE IS OF SAND OR CLAY AND NOT NOTING WHETHER THE SAND OR 16 CLAY WAS INTERMIXED OR WAS CONTAINED IN FISSURES 17 OR JOINTS?
lE A. WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT QUESTION?
19 Q. SURE.
20 MR. VAN KLEY: CAN WE HAVE THE 21 REPORTER REPEAT IT, PLEASE?
22 (CUESTION READ BY THE REPORTER.)
23 A. NO, THAT'S NOT THE CASE AT ALL. WHEN --
r 24 GEOTECHNICAL ENGINEERS, GEOLOGISTS, OR ANYONE ELSE 25 IN THE FIELD OF LOG SAMPLES SUCH AS THIS, WHEN
298 LENSES 'OR' LAYERS OF SOIL OCCUR, THE- STANDARD
' ~
1-
{s. 2 PRACTICE IS TO NOTE THAT.'NO THE-BORING LOG.
~
- 3. JUDGE H0YT: C O'U N S E L O R , I WONDER:
4 IF.WE ARE NOT GETTING INTO.THIS A LITTLE ~ BIT
- 5. " DEEPER THAN PERHAPS WE SHOULD- AT THIS' POINT. '
8 .
6 SINCE YOU-ARE APPARENTLY GOING TO HAVEETO HAVELA.
7 SPONSORING WITNESS FOR THIS LATER ON, IT-WOULD 8- APPEAR TO ME.TO BE THAT SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS
} 9 MAY BE BETTER ADDRESSED TO THAT I N D I VI.DU AL .
10 MR. VAN KLEY: YEAH. WELL, THESE.
i 11 ARE BORING LOGS WHICH WERE DONE BY THE LICENSEE-S 12 FOR PURPOSES OF BEING THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE
{) 13 TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN HERE TODAY, SO'I ASSUME-
- 14 THAT MR. SILBERG WOULD GLADLY STIPULATE TO THEIR 15 ADMISSION.
16 dUDGE H0YT: WELL,- I CAN'T 17 ASSUME THAT. WE WILL HAVE TO FIRST. DETERMINE, .ARE-18 YOU GOING TO STIPULATE THESE L OG S- lI N , MR. SILDERG7-19 MR. SILBERG: I DON'T HAVE ANY 20 OBJECTION TO THEIR COMING IN.
21 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT. THEN WE -
22 UILL HAVE ANOTHER WITNESS ON.THIS.
I 23 MR. VAN KLEY: WE.WILL HAVE 1
24 ANOTHER WITNESS DISCUSSING.THESE. LOGS DURING'OUR i
25 CASE. ,
299 1 JUDGE H0YT: WELL, THAT WASN'T 2 MY QUESTION.
3 MY QUESTION WAS: YOU WON'T HAVE ANOTHER 4 SPONSORING WITNESS FOR THIS EXHIBIT.
{
{
6 dUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. GO 7 AHEAD.
8 I THINK WE BETTER GET THAT STIPULATION ON 9 THE RECORD AT SOME POINT BEFORE YOU COMPLETE THE 10 EXAMINATION.
11 MR. VAN KLEY: WOULD YOU LIKE TO 12 DO IT NOW?
( , 13 UUDGE H0YT: I THINK THAT MAY BE 14 A GOOD IDEA.
15 MR. SILBERG: IF MR. VAN KLEY 16 WANTS TO t10 V E THOSE EXHIBITS INTO EVIDENCE --
17 JUDGE H0YT: BY STIPULATION?
18 MR. SILBERG: --
BY STIPULATION, 19 THAT'S ACCEPTABLE TO TOLEDO EDISON.
20 JUDGE HOYT: DO WE HAVE ANY 21 OBJECTIONS F R 0 f. ANY OF THE OTHER INTERVENORS HERE?
22 MR. LODGE: NONE.
23 JUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. WE WILL g~' 24 ACCEPT THE EXHIBIT D FOR IDENTIFICATION, STATE OF
, x_.-
25 OHIO EXHIBIT D.
,= -. . ... . - . . -
- 300~ -
1 - _ -.
- 2. .THEREUPON, STATE OF OHIO EXHIBIT D WAS -
t i
3 RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.
4 <
F MR. VAN KLEY: THANK Y O U r- YOUR' i
6 HONOR. '
7 8Y MR. VAN KLEY:
l f 8 Q. -MR. HENDRON, IF YOU'WOULD LOOK AT'THE i -
i~ .
9 THIRD BORING L O G ,. BORING LOG NUMBER THREE,-I WOULD-4 f 10 LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR' ATTENTION TO THE WATER '
I i
-11 OBSERVATIONS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. .'
i 12 A. OKAY.
() 13 Q .. ACCORDING TO THIS LOG, WATER WAS F'l R S T.
~
14 ' DISCOVERED AT 5.5 FEET DOWN FROM THE SURFACE;. II S -
i 15 .THAT CORRECT? ^
j 16 A. THAT'S CORRECT. l 17 Q. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU'D-GO TO BORING' LOG- -
i 1
18 NUMBER FIVE, THE SAME SPOT, EAT-THIS BORING (LOG, I
19 THE WATER WAS INITIALLY-FOUND AT 8.5 F E E:T ; IS THAT i-I 20 CORRECT? !
! i
- 21 A. THAT- IS CORRECT. "
l 22- Q. WAS ANY PERMEABILITY-TESTING'- DONE' ON THE' j -23 BURIAL SITE ITSELF? IN-0THER WORDS, IN SITU:
24 PERMEABILITY TESTING?
, 25 A.- NONE THAT I'M AWARE OF.
1
. . , _ . . . . . _ . . . _ . , . - . _ . _ . .- . . . _ _ . _ . - . _ _ . _ _ . . . .. _ ..-. . . ~ _ _ . - - ._,. . _ . . . . . . . - - .
301 }
l Q. HOW WAS THIS TABLE 6.1 COMPILED? IS THAT 2 JUST --
HOW DID YOU AVERAGE OUT OR SUMMARIZE THE 3 FIVE BORING LOGS TO GET THIS TABLE?
4 A. WELL, THE THICKNESS RANGE THAT I SHOW l
5 THERE IS MY INTERPRETATION OF THE DEPTH TO THE 6 CONTACT BETWEEN THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE AND GLACIAL 7 TILL DEPOSITS FROM THESE BORING LOGS. THE INDEX S PROPERTY TEST THAT I SHOW ARE SUMMARIZATIONS OF 9 THE DATA THAT I HAD FROM THE LABORATORY TESTING OF 10 SAMPLES TAKEN FROM THESE bOREHOLES AS WELL AS THE 11 UNIT WEIGHTS AND PERMEAB,ILITY TEST RESULTS.
12 Q. THE PARAMETERS WHICH YOU LIST U f: D E R
( ,' 13 PROPERTY, FOR EXAMPLE, THICKNESS RANGE AND LIQUID 14 LIMIT AND PLASTIC LIMIT AND 50 FORTh, THOSE ARE 15 PROPERTIES WHICH YOU HAVE --
WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN 16 USING IN YOUR PREVIOUS PROJECTS, I WOULD ASSUME, 17 WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTING BUILDINGS ON A 18 PROPERTY; IS THAT CORRECT?
19 A. WELL, THE RESULTS I SHOW HERE ARE FROM --
20 ARE FROM THE RESULTS OF TESTS DONE IN SAMPLES FROM 21 THESE BORINGS, AND AS I'VE INDICATEDr THEY DO
{
22 AGREE VERY WELL WITH THE TYPICAL PROPERTIES WE 23 FOUND AROUND THE SITE.
^
24 Q. UH-HUH. YOU HAVE CONSIDERABLE EXPERIENCE 25 WITH CONSTP.UCTION ACTIVITIES; IS THAT RIGHT7
302 1 A. YES, I D0.
2 Q. ALL RIGHT. AND THESE ARE THE TYPES OF l
PARAMETERS THAT YOU LOOK FOR IN PROPERTY WHEN YOU 3
4 DETERMINE UHETHER OR NOT TO PUT A BUILDING ON A 5 SITE, FOR EXAMPLE?
6 A. AMONG OTHER THINGS, YES.
7 Q. IN ANOTHER SPOT IN YOUR TESTIMONY, YCU 8 HAVE INDICATED, I BELIEVE, THAT THE GLACIAL TILL 9 AND THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSIT AT THE BURIAL 10 SITE ARE PARTIALLY SATURATED. DO YOU REMEMBER 11 THAT TESTIMONY?
12 A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
g,
() 13 Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME --
WHAT DID YOU MEAN 14 BY " PARTIALLY SATURATED"?
15 A. WE TOOK THE RESULTS OF THE DENSITY 16 TESTING AS WELL AS THE RESULTS OF THE SPECIFIC 17 GRAVITY TESTING AND WATER CONTENT TESTING THAT WAS 16 DONE ON THE PERMEABILITY TEST SPECIMENS THEMSELVES 19 AND USED THAT TO THEORETICALLY CALCULATE A DEGREE 20 0F SATURATION WHICH IS A --
WhICH IS A 21 SPECIFICALLY DEFINED TERM FOR SOILS.
22 Q. SG YOU DIC FIND WATER IN THE SOIL THAT I
23 YOU WERE TESTING?
24 A. OHr YEAH. I MEAN, THE WATER CONTENT THAT 25 WE REPORT FOR THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSIT IS 24
303 1 PERCENT, AND THAT WATER CONTENT VERY SIMPLY'IS THE 2 WEIGHT OF WATER IN THE SOIL DIVIDED GY THE WEIGHT 3 0F SOLIDS OF SOIL. SO WITH RESPECT TO THIS WEIGHT 4 0F SOLIDS OF SGIL, THERE'S 24 PERCENT WATER IN THE 5 GLACIOLACUSTRINE DEPOSIT. '. gl 6 Q. LATER IN YOUR TESTIMONY. UNDER QUESTION 7 8, I BELIEVE IT IS --
IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT, 8 IT'S PAGE 52 -
YOU'VE INDICATLD THAT THE 9 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE AND GLACIAL TILL DEPOSITS ARE 10 UNSATURATED. DO YOU SEE THAT SPOT IN YOUR 11 TESTINGNY?
12 A. WELL, THE TERM " UNSATURATED" AND lh 13 " PARTIALLY SATURATED" AS TESTIMONY ARE ONE AND THE 14 SAME.
15 Q. ALL RIGHT. I THINK I'LL GET INTO THAT A 16 LITTLE LIT LATER UNDER QUESTION 8. SINCE I THINK 17 THAT'S MORE APPROPR I A TE UNDER QUESTION 8, I'LL 16 FOLLOW THAT UP LATER, 19 LET'S GET BACK FOR A MINUTE TO THE 20 GEOLOGY OF THE AREA AS PERTAINING TO THE SOILS.
21 YOU'VE INDICATED THAT YOU HAVE LOOKED AT 22 OTHER ITEMS OF INFORMATION TO FORMULATE YOUR 23 OPINIONS CONCERNING THE SOILS IN THE AREA; IS THAT 24 RIGHT?
25 A. THE SOILS IN THE AREA, "THE AREA" MEANING
j
.304 1 THE' BURIAL SITE AREA.
2' Q. YES. I BELIEVE YOU'VE INDICATED THAT~
3 THERE ARE ITEMS THAT H A VE INFORMATION YOU'VE 4 LOOKED AT THAT M A.Y NOT BE ITEMS FROM THE BURIAL. a 5 SITE ITSELF BUT AREAS CLOSEBY?
6 A. .T H A T ' S CORRECT.
'7 Q. WOULD YOU TELL US'WHAT~THOSE ITEMS O F-6 INFORMATION ARE? >
9 A. WELL, THE LARGE BODY OF DATA E X I S T S ; F R O f4 10 ALL THE SOILS WORK AND.ALL THE GEOLOGICAL-WORK AND 11 HYDROGE0 LOGICAL WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE AT THE PLANT 12 SITE SINCE 1968r AND OUR FIRM, AND MYSELF,, IN
() 13 PARTICULAR, HAVE BEEN INVOLVED W'ITH THIS SITE 14 SINCE THAT TIME. I RELIED HEAVILY ON GOING.BACK 15 TO THOSE DATA, REVIEWING THOSE DATA IN LIGHT'0F?
- 16. THE' PROJECT THAT WE'RE UNDERTAKING AT THE BURIAL 17 SITE.
16 IN ADDITION TOETHAT,-THERE WAS A WEALTH 1
19 0F DATA THAT WAS AVAILABLE FROM THE CONSTRUCTION 20 0F UNITS ONE, AND I WAS INVOLVED VERY HEAVILY IN
- 21 THE CONSTRUCTION UNIT ONE. I WENT BACK AND I TOOK 22 A LOOK AT OUR RECORDS AND OUR FILES WHERE.THOSE -
23 DATA EXISTED. .
<'N 24 Q. 50 THE DATA FROM OTHER AREAS AT THE k-
) 25 DAVIS-BESSE STATION WHICH'YOU'VE' RELIED ON CONSIST
l 305
{
1 0F DATA WHICH WERE --
WHICH WAS OBTAINED FOR 2 PURPOSES OF DETERMINING THE ACCEPTABILITY OF THIS 3 SITE FOR CONSTRUCTION; IS THAT CORRECT 7 4 A. THE DATA WERE ORIGINALLY OBTAINED FOR 5 THAT PURPOSE, YES.
6 Q. I BELIEVE IT'S ON PAGE 45 WHICH YOU 7 HAVE --
ON WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN US THE OUTLINE OF b THE DATA YOU LOOKED AT. WOULD YOU LOOK UNDER 9 QUESTION A6-3 OR IN CRA-3. YOU'LL NOTE THAT YOU 10 TALK ABOUT HUNDREDS OF BORINGS, TEST PITS, PROBES, 11 PUMP TESTS, AND OTHER DIRECT FIELDS TEST. WERE 12 ANY OF THESE TESTS IN SITU PERMEABILITY TESTS?
( j 13 A. OF THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE --
14 Q. YES.
15 A. --
AND TILL DEPOSITS, I PRESUME.
16 Q. RIGHT.
17 A. NONE OF THE DATA WERE SPECIFIC INFLOW 18 PERMEABILITY TESTS, BUT WHAT I DID IS I WENT BACK IS AND TOOK A LOOK AT ALL THE DATA WE HAD ON THE 20 PERFORMANCE OF EXCAVATIONS IN THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE 21 AND TILL DEPOSIT TO LOOK FOR FIELD EVIDENCE AND 22 FIELD DEHAVIOR IN THESE DEPOSITS THAT WOULD 23 SUGGEST HIGH PERMEABILITY, AND "HIGH PERMEABILITY" 24 IN THIS CASE WOULD MEAN PERMEABILITY IN EXCESS OF 25 THE TEN TO THE MINUS SIX OR TEN TO THE MINUS SEVEN
306 1 THAT WE BELIEVE WE HAVE IN THIS DEPOSIT. THAT 2 TYPE OF DATA IS PROBABLY THE BEST TYPE OF FIELD 3 MEASURE OF PERMEABILITY THAT YOU CAN HAVE. 50 4 WHILE WE DIDN'T HAVE SPECIFIC DATA ON INFIELD 5 PERMEABILITY OF THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE AND TILL 6 DEPOSIT, I WENT BACK AND REWORKED DATA WE HAD TO 7 COME UP WITH MY OWN PRESENT-DAY ASSESSMENT OF b INFIELD PERMEABILITY BEHAVIOR.
9 Q. WHAT DATA WAS IT THAT YOU LOOKED AT?
10 A. WELL, WE HAD CONSTRUCTION PHOTOGRAPHS 11 OVER TIME. WE HAD DEWATERING RECORDS FROM THE 12 ROCK AS WELL AS DEWATERING INFORMATION FROM THE
(-
( ,
) 13 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE TILL DEPOSITS. BUT PRIMARILY 14 06SERVATIOPS MADE OVER LONG PERIODS OF TIME OF 15 BEHAVIOR, FLOW oEHAVIOR IN THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE 16 TILL DEPOSIT.
17 Q. WHAT DID THE PHOTOS SHOU YOU, IF 18 ANYTHING, ABOUT THE PERMEABILITY OF THE GROUND?
19 A. WELL, I THINK I'VE INDICATED IN MY 20 TESTIMONY THAT WE DID NOT OBSERVE FLOW THROUGH 21 EITHER THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE OR THE TILL DEPOSIT IN 22 ANY OF THE EXCAVATIONS WE MADE AROUND THE SITE.
23 Q. TELL ME ABOUT THE DEWATERING RECORDS.
,'~' 24 WHAT DID THEY SHOW YOU?
('
25 A. MOST OF THE DEUATERING RECORDS WERE
~
1307 1
1 ACTUALLY BEDROCK DEWATERING. THE10NLY DEWATERING f')\
A-2 RECORDS THAT WE HAD FOR THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE~AND c.
3 TILL DEPOSIT WERE THE PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE AND. c i
4 THE REPORTS WE HAD FROM THE PEOPLE THAT WERE IN 5 THE FIELD THAT, IN FACT, THERE WAS AN ABSENCE OF 4 .
6 FLOW OF WATER IN THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE AND'TIL'l ,
i .
, 7- DEPOSITS.
i .
8 Q. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY 9 DEWATERING RECORDS THAT ACTUALLY SHOW A LACK OF~
10 FLOW THROUGH THE TILL?
11 A. WELL, THE PROBLEM.WE HAVE WITH THAT 12 DEPOSIT IS THE RECORDS WE'HAVE CLEARLY SHOW THAT 13 THERE WAS NO FLOW. THAT DATA IS AS . VALID A 'S IF'WE t 14 HAD FLOW RECORDS THAT SAY WE HAD ONE GALLON'A .
15 MINUTE OR TEN GALLONS A MINUTE-OR 50 GALLONS-A$ -
i 16 MINUTE.
17 SO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A' NUMBER THAT 18 SAYS WE DON'T HAVE A DATA SHEET.,WHERE W E. SENT-19- SONEBODY OUT TO MAKE A DATA SHEETLT' HAT SAYS 7ERO, 2
20 BUT WE'HAVE OBSERVATIONS OF PEOPLE INCLUDING 21 MYSELF, MANY OBSERVATIONS, THAT SAY-AND THAT 22 CONFIRM OVER LONG- PERIODS OF T I M E . .T H E R E. IS NO FLOW L '
23 OBSERVED THROUGH THE EXCAVATIONS WE MADE'AT e
I
, 24 DAVIS-BESSE.
- 25. -Q.
J ALL.RIGHT. SO WHAT IT-REALLY COMES:DOWN
. ~ . . _ . . , _ . . . . . - . , _ . _ . - - , _ . . _- , , , _ _ , _ - . . . . . . -- , . . , - , - . -
308 1 TO, THEN, SO FAR AS YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE
')
2 INFORMATION GBTAINED DURING THE CONSTRUCTION 3 PERIOD, YOU HAVE BASED YOUR OPINION THAT THERE'S 4 NO FLOW THROUGH THE GLACIAL TILL OR THE 5 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSITS SOLELY UPON OBSERVATION 6 0F THE FUEL PERSONNEL AT THE SITE?
7 A. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT, YES.
8 0. WHAT TIME OF THE YEAR WAS THE 9 CONSTRUCTION INFORMATION ODTAINED?
10 A. WELL, WE STARTED CONSTRUCTION IN APRIL 11 1970, AND THE CONSTRUCTION WENT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
12 SOME OF THESE EXCAVATIONS WERE OPEN THROUGH 13 SEVERAL SEASONAL --
THROUGH SEVERAL SEASONS. MOST 14 NOTABLY, I GUESS, WOULD DE THE UNIT ONE EXCAVATION 15 IN MY MIND.
10 16 (. DID CONSTRUCTION TAKE PLACE DURING THE 17 SPRINGTIME?
16 A. WELLr WE STARTED IN APRIL OF 1970, 50, 19 YES.
20 (. DID IT OCCUR DURING ALL SEASONS OF THE 21 YEAR?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. ON PAGE 42 YOU HAVE REFERRED TO
^; 24 RELATIVELY HOMOGENEOUS PLASTIC SILTY CLAY. DO YOU q;'
25 SEE THAT?
303 1 A. YES.
2 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "RELATIVELY"?
3 A. WELL, THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE CLAY IS, BY 4 DEFINITION, LAMINATED. IT'S GOT A WHAT WE CALL 5 VARVENE IN IT, AND VARVES ARE LAYERS OF LAMINA.
6 AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASS, THE "RELATIVELY 7 HOMOGENEOUS" IS REALLY WITH RESPECT TO THE 8 PRESENCE OF THE LAMINA OR THE VARVENE DEPOSIT.
9 Q. WOULD ANY OF THOSE LAMINATED STRUCTURES 10 EE SAND LAYERS?
11 A. WE DIDN'T --
WE DIDN'T OBSERVE SAND 12 LAYERS AT THE SITE, AND I'D LIKE TO QUALIFY 1 HAT I 13 TO THE EXTENT THAT I'M NOT SAYING IT'S ZERO. I'M 14 SAYING WHEN WE LOOK AT THE MASS OF SOIL FOR THE 15 TYPES OF DETERMINATIONS WE HAVE TO MAKE, WE 16 CHARACTERIZE -- IN THOSE TERMS, WE CHARACTERIZE 17 THE DEPOSIT AS HAVING VERYr VERY INFREQUENT, IF 18 THEY'RE THERE, SAND LAYERS OR LENSES.
19 Q. 50 YOU DID OBSERVE INFREQUENT SAND 20 LAYERS?
21 A. I THINK I WOULD CHARACTERIZE IT AS VERY 22 INFREQUENT.
23 Q. AND THIS WAS OBSERVED DURING THE 24 CONSTRUCTION PERIOD?
25 A. WELL, WE --
I DON'T RECALL CSSERVING THEN
/
310
'l DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PERIOD, GUT WE WENT TO AN 2 AREA CLOSE TO THE SITE RECENTLY, AND THERE UAS AN 3 OPEN EXCAVATION OF BOTH THE TILL "AND THE 4 GLACIOLAGUSTRItU DEPOSIT, AND ALONG A 5 THOUSAND-FOOT-LONG EXCAVATION THROUGH THE GLACICLACUSTfHfit AND THE GLAC!AL'TILL, I THINK WE
~
6 7 OBSERVED ONE SAND LAYER THAT WAS ABOUT TWO OR 6 THREE CENTIMETERS THICK AND MAYBE FIVE OR TEN FEET 9 LONG.
10 Q. WHEN T H E , C,0 N S.J R U C T I O N WAS GOING ON, ISN'T 11 IT TRUE THAT THE HOLES WERE MADE WITH EARTHMOVING 12 EQUIPMENT?
I s
, 13 A. YES.
14 Q. %'L R'I G H T . AND EARTHMOVItsG EQUIPMENT HAS 15 A WAY OF SMEARfNG THE SYDES'OF T62 EXCAVATION; 16 ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
17 A. WELL, 7 ME'AN, I --
I HATE TO AGREE WITH 18 THAT STATEMENT A5 A WHOLE CCCAUSE. IN FACT, WITH 19 RESPECT TO GROUNCUATER FLOW, NO. WHILE THE SMEAR 20 ZONE MAY BE A FEW If4_CttES OR A FEW MILLIMETERS, 21 REALLY, DEEP IN THE EGINNIMG, OVER THE LONG 22 PERI D CF TIMd, THIF IS INCdNSEQUENTIAL IF, IN 23 FACT, T hlf. E ' S WATER IN THAT' FORMATION.
'3 24 ,Q., BUT IN THE CASE OF ThE CONSTRUCTION, THE 25 SANDS HAD ALREADY BEEN DEWATERED; ISN'T THAT
-L
o 311 1 CORRECT?
2 A. COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?
3 Q. YES. WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION IS GOING ON, 4 THE EXCAVATION DURING THE CONSTRUCTION IS GOING 5 ON, ISN'T IT.TRUE THAT THE SITE IS BEING 6 DEWATERED?
7 A. THE BEDROCK WAS DEWATERED, YES.
8 Q. DOESN'T THAT ALSO DEWATER THE 9 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSITS AND THE GLACIAL TILL?
10 A. NOT AS TIGHT AS THOSE FORMATIONS WERE, 11 NO.
12 Q. ALL RIGHT. SC YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT THE 13 FORMATIONS WERE TIGHT, AND THEREFORE, THEY WERE 14 NOT BEING DEWATERED; IS THAT RIGHT?
15 A. WELL, I'M NOT ASSUMING THAT. WE HAD 16 SEVERAL BORR0W EXCAVATIONS OPEN AT THE TIME THAT 17 DID NOT GO THROUGH TO THE BEDROCK. AND LET'S 18 ASSUME YCUR HYPOTHETICAL IS CORRECT, THAT THERE IS IS A S Y S T Eli OF WHATEVER JOINTS OR FRACTURES OR 20 PERMEABLE STRUCTURES IN THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE AND 21 TILL DEPOSIT THAT WOULD REACT TO BEDROCK 22 DEWATERING. WE HAD SEVERAL EXCAVATIONS WITHIN THE 23 AREA OF INFLUENCE OF THE DEWATERING OPERATION IN
~
'1 24 THE BEDROCK AND FOUND NO MEASURABLE FLUCTUATIONS 25 IN WATER LEVELS OF THESE PONDS BY BEDROCK
I'
- e 312 1 DEWATERING. .
2 Q. WHICH PONDS'ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
i 3 A. WELL, THE9E WERE SEVERAL BORROW AREAS 4 DEVELOPED ON THE SITE TO CREATE THE SWITCH-YARD 5 FILL AND THE NAIN-PLANT FILL, ANDiTHESE WERE WELL 6 WITHIN THE INFLUENCE Od THE BEDROCK DEWATERING r- *
'i SYSTEM. '
/
8 Q. WERE THEY WITHIN THE WELL ZONE OR OUTSIDE 9 THE WELL ZONE?
10 A. I'M SORRY. I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND 11 ,THAT Q ESTION.
12 Q., ISN'T IT TRUE THAT WHEN YOU DEWATER AN
/ 13 AREA.r[YOU SURROUND THE AREA WITH WELLS?
14 A. THAT'S WHAT WE DT D IN THIS CASE, YES.
?
15 Q. OKAY. WOULD THESE BORROW PITS BE WITHIN 16 THAT SURROUNDED AREA OR OUTSIDE OF IT?
17 A. THEY WERE OUTSIDE THE SURROUNDING AREA OF 18 THE WELLS, AND'THE RADIUS OF INFLUENCE FELL 19 OUlSIDE THE WELLS, EXTENDEO ONE MILE BEYOND THE 20 PERIMETER OF THE WELLS', AND THESE BORROW AREAS 21 WERE WELL WITHIN THAT ONE-MILE AREA WHERE BEDROCK 1
22 WATER WAS INFLUENCED BY THE DEWATERING SYSTEM. /
23 0. HOW FAR AWAY WERE THEY?
/~x 24 A. I'D SAY THEY WERE WITHIN TWO TO 3,000 25' FEET.
o 313 1 Q. FOR THE MONITOR WELL --
OR FOR THE 2 DEWATERING WELLS TO AFFECT THE LEVEL IN THE POND, 3 ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THE WATER FROH THE POND WOULD 4 HAVE TO MIGRATE HORIZONTALLY TO THE DEWATERING 5 WELLS?
6 A. WELL, IT WOULD HAVE TO NIGRATE 7 HORIZONTALLY, IF, IN FACT, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS 8 THE VERTICAL PERMEABILITY IS VERY LOW, AND IN THE 9 EVENT THAT IT WOULD MIGRATE HORIZONTALLY, WE WOULD 10 HAVE SEEN IT COME OUT IN THE FACES OF OUR 11 EXCAVATIONS NEAR THE DEWATERING SYSTEM, WHICH WE 12 DID NOT SEE.
lh 13 THE CTHER WAY THAT IT COULD MIGRATE IS 14 MORE --
MORE TO THE POINT --
WOULD BE IS IF WE HAD ,
15 PERMEABLE VERTICAL STRUCTURES IN EITHER THE 16 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE OR GLACIAL TILL. IT WOULD 17 MIGRATE VERTICALLY TO THE BEDROCK AND THEN MIGRATE 18 HORIZONTALLY INTO THE BEDROCK TOWARDS THE 19 DEWATERING WELLS.
20 Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WERE OBTAINING WATER ll 21 OUT OF THE BEDROCK; IS THAT RIGHT?
22 A. OH, 'Y E A H .
23 Q. SO IF THE WATER FROM THE GLACIAL TILL 24 WERE VERTICALLY GOING INTO THE BEDROCK AND THEN 25 GOING FROM THE BED --
THROUGH THE BEDROCK TO THE I
i
l DEUATERING WELLS, YOU UGULD NOT NOTICE ANY 2 D I F F E R Eli C E LETWEEN THAT SITUATION AND THE 3 SITUATION UHERE YOU'RE GETTING THE WATER F R O tt THE 4 BEDROCK ORIGINALLY; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
5 A. WELL, NO, EXCEPT THE POND WATER LEVELS IN f
6 THE BORROh AREAS WOULD HAVE REACTED TO THAT 7 S I T U A T I C li .
6 Q. THAT'S A S S U t4 I N G THAT THOSE PONDS ARE 9 LOCATED OVER A VERTICAL J O I t: T ; IS THAT RIGHT?
10 A. UELL, THESE PONDS WERE SEVERAL TENS OF 11 ACRES IN SIZE, AND I WOULD ASSUME IF THERE WERE 12 VERTICAL JOINTS THAT WERE PERMEAELE PRESENT, h 13 STATISTICALLY S P E A K I t! G , I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO 14 HAVE OCCURRED IN THE PONDS THAT WE CREATED IN THE 15 BORROW OPERATION.
16 Q. ON PAGE 44 YOU REFER TO OPEN JOINTS, 17 FISSURES AND SAND STRATA. SEE THAT?
18 A. IS ThlS IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH, THREE 15 LINES UP? l 20 C. . OKAY. I'M SORRY. IT SAYS "N0 SYSTEMATIC 21 OPEN JOINTS, FISSURES, SAND STRATA, OR OTHER 22 NON-UNIFORMITIES."
23 A. YEAH, THAT'S THE WAY I READ IT.
24 Q. ALL RIGHT. WHY DID YOU PUT THE WORD 25 " SYSTEMATIC" INTO THAT SENTENCE?
--c-7_ ,
315- -
- 1. A'. WELL, T H E P,E
- S 'T W O -- THERE.'S-REALLY,TWO O-- . 2 WORDS IN THERE: ONE IS " SYSTEMATIC" AND ONE IS
~
3 "0 PEN." THESE ARE.THE' TWO.:P AR AME T ER S THAT WE LOOK. ,
4 'FOR IN ANY G E O L O G I C M A T.E R I A L' THAT WE'RE 5 CONSIDERING TO MAKE A DE C IS I ON ON' WHETHER:;0R :NOT-6 IT IS FEASIBLE TO USE.THIS 'ORMATION F FOR WASTE 7 DI.SPOSAL OR. WASTE-MANAGEMENT -- WAST'E CONTAINMENT, 8 LET'S SAY. ANDflF WEoFIND A SYSTEMATIC '-- IF WE 9 FIND SYSTEMATIC OPEN dOINTS, THEN OBVIOUSLY.'THE 10 FORMATION COULD B E ' P E R M E A B L- E , AND.WE I N V E S T I G A T;E ' -
~
11 ACCORDINGLY.
3 12 AT THE~ DAVIS-BESSE SITE, OUR OBSERVATIONS-
)
13 AND OUR JUDGMENT ~IS WE HAVE ~ FOUND NO~ SYSTEMATIC' i
14 SYSTEMS THAT. COULD BE PATHWAYS IN EITHERIO'F THESE '
1 15 DEPOSITS. ,
t -
16 Q. ALL RIGHT. THE FACT THAT YOU MAYLNOT' 4
17 HAVE FOUND ANY SYSTEMATIC PATTERNS OF'THESE j
~
18 FORMATIONS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THA'T E T H E R Ey A R E :. .
19 NOT~-- THAT YOU DID NOT FIND ~ RANDOM. JOINTS AND. ,
20 SAND STRATA AND SO FORTH; IS THAT RIGHT? < * '
21 A. NO. WE FOUND ---IF- YOU WILL, THELTERM '
22 " RANDOM" IS FIND. WE FOUND JOINTS,-WE FOUND ;
1
,, 23 FISSURES,-AND WE FOUND VERY, VERY' INFREQUENT' i
- l. 3- 24 I N D I C A T-I O N S OF THE.-SAND STRATA.
25 Q. YOU DIDN'T DO ANY IN SITU PERMEABILITY T
l
' - _ _ _ _ . - . . . - , _ ., , ,~ -, , - _ .- __ . . . . . .
_.y . -
= L316 '
F
, - 1. TESTING ON.ANY.OF'THESE' FISSURES O R .d O I N T'S' T H'A T:
1 C'.
Ib - 2 YOU FOUND,;THOUGH; IS -TH AT LCO RRE CT ?:
) 3 A .- W E L'L , .AGAIN, I WANT TO RELATE.SOME i
4' EXPERIENCE-WE HAD IN THEl EXCAVATION'THAT WE a
. 5 V.ISITED RECENTLY NEAR' THE SITE, AND IT'S WITHIN A
- 6 HALF A MILE OF THE SITE. THE' BOTTOM;OFHTHE.
- 7. EXCAVATION W A S' NEAR EL E VAT I ON o S6 0. ;I N AN AREA: WHERE 8 WE EXPECT-THE BEDROCK TO BE MAYBE -THREE OR FOUR i '
I S FEET BELOW THAT. THE 'E X C'A V A T I O N W'E-- W E R E LOOKING 10^ AT WAS IN THE TILL DEPOSIT.
11 WE COULD SEE THE JOINTS't.ND' FISSURES T' HAT 4
12 WE FOUND THROUGHOUT THE TILL DEPOSIT,'AND THERE j 13 WAS ABOUT A.13-FOOT -- 12-FOOT PRESSUR'E HEAD OF i
! 14 WATER FROM THE BEDROCK ON THE-BASE'OF2 _THE TILLIN 15 THAT EXCAVATION, AND WE- FOUND THAT THESE.dOINTS' f ,
16 'A N'D FI'SSURES THAT WE WERELOOKING AT.WERE, IN- _
f 17 FACT, VERY TIGHT. WE COULD OBSERVE NO FLOW, i
i 16 WHICH, IN OUR CURIE TEST, 'I F YOU:WIL'L, WOULD
~
19 SUPPORT'THE IDEA THAT THE. PE'RMEABILITY OF THE- TILL f 20 IS IN THE ORDER OF TEN TOLTHE'MINUS SEVEN_OR 50- ' .i l
21 CENTIMETERS PER S E C.O N D .
i 2 '2 Q..
50 THE ANSWER TO.THAT IS, NO, YOU DIDINOT. ,
23 DO IN SITU PERPEABILITY TESTS: ON'THESE JOINTS-A'D;- N
, 24 FISSURES; IS THAT RIGHT? ,
- 25 A. ONLY'AS I DESCRIBED-THE CRUDE MEASUREMENT-i
-m.-m -e m , e-e- ,,,-.,..,.a,--i- 3,,---w.e e-e.-.,w,es ,e..--.,_.,.--e w, ,p. .g s-;- ,,+~m--,,~
_ , q y. .w..- y-*- p
317 1 WE MADE IN THAT EXCAVATION.
2 Q. HAVE TREES EVER GROWN ON THE LANDFILL 3 SITE?
4 A. HISTORICALLY, I THINK THE RECORD IS VERY S CLEAR THAT THEY HAVE.
6 G. WAS IT VERY HEAVILY WOODED HISTORICALLY?
7 A. THE SOIL CONSERVATION SERVICE FOR OTTOWA 6 COUNTY WOULD SUGGEST THAT, YES, IT WAS AT ONE 9 TIME, I THINK, VERY HEAVILY FORESTED.
10 Q. DO YOU KNOW UHAT KIND OF TREES ARE 11 EXPECTED TO GROU IN THAT AREA?
12 A, WELL, I'M NOT A BIOLOGIST. I A li FROM THE yy j 13 MIDWEST, AND I WOULD SUSPECT -- BASED ON THAT 14 EXPERIENCE, I WCULD SUSPECT THAT WE'RE TALKING 15 OAKS AND MAPLES AND THAT SORT OF THING.
16 Q. HOW DEEP DO THE ROOTS OF THE TREES 17 PENETRATE INTO THE GROUND?
16 A. I WOULD DEFER THAT QUESTION TO A BETTER 19 QUALIFIED PERSON.
20 Q. WOULD YOU SAY AS A MATTER OF COMMON SENSE 21 THAT IT WOULD GO D O W ,', AT LEAST TEN FEET?
22 A. IT WOULD NOT --
IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE tt E .
23 IN FACT, WE HAVE SOME EVIDENCE OF HAIR ROOTS,
,"', 24 VERY, VERY SMALL, TINY ROOTS THAT EXTEND 25 ESSENTIALLY THROUGH THE TILL DEPOSIT.
318 1 0. 50 IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TU HAVE TREE ROOTS 2 GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE TILL DEPOSIT 7 3 A. NOW YOU'RE TALKING THROUGH THIS TILL 4 DEPOSIT OR THROUGH A TILL DEPOSIT?
5 Q. A TILL DEPOSIT.
6 A. WELL, I CON'T THINK THAT APPLIES TO A 7 TILL DEPOSIT DECAUSE SOME OF THESE TILL DEPOSITS 8 ARE 60 OR 70 FEET THICK, AND I UGULD DE VERY S SURPRISED TO SEE ROOT STRUCTURES GO THAT DEEP.
10 THROUGH THIS TILL DEPOSIT WHICH IS --
LET'S JUST 11 CALL IT 15, 20 FEET, THAT, YOU KNOW, 10 FEET 12 WOULDN'T SURFRISE ME, 15 FEET PROSABLY WOULDN'T 13 SURPRISE ME.
14 0 ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IN 5 0 l'. E 15 0F THE AREAS OF THE AMERICAN MIDWLST THE DEPOSITS 16 OF CLAY GR SILTY TILL AND GLACIOLACUSTRINE CLAY 17 HAVE N E T W O.' ".S JF H A I R L I t; E FRACTURES?
12 16 A. YEAH. I THINK THE LITERATURE CONTAINS A 19 LOT OF EXAMPLES WHERE AT LEAST IT'S BEEN ALLEGED, 20 A t4 D I T H I N !: CERTAINLY THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE I 21 WOULD AGREE THAT THESE SYSTEMS ARE PRESENT.
22 0. YEAH. ThESE F R /s C T U R E S , THESE HAIRLINE 23 FRACTURES, ARE COMMONLY CALLED THE FISSURES OR 24
~
J0lhTS; IS ThAT RIGHT?
25 A. YEAH, THE TERM IS TYPICALLY
. 313 1 INTERCHANGEAELE.
2 Q. AND THESE FRACTURES AdE PREDOf;INANTLY 3 VERTICAL; IS THAT RIGHT?
4 A. THE --
YEAH, THE ONES OF MOST INTEREST TO 5 THE WASTE C O N T A I N f4 E N T DISCUSSION ARE VERTICAL.
6 THERE'S TYPICALLY A COUPLE OF SETS OF FRACTURES; 7 ONE VERTICAL, AND THERE'S ANOTHER SET THAT IS 6 HC. IZONTAL.
9 Q. IN THE CASE OF THE FIVE SORINGS THAT WERE 10 TAKEN AT THE BURIAL SITE, CAN YOU TELL ME WHETHER 11 THE BORINGS WENT STRAIGHT DOWN OR hMETHER THEY 12 UERE ANGLED?
i
( 13 A. THESE 6OREHOLES WENT STRAIGHT.
14 Q. NOU, IN CASES WHERE THERE ARE FRACTURES 15 IN THE TILL GR THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE CLAY, THESE 15 FRACTURES C Aff PROVIDE PATHWAYS FOR UATER THROUGH 17 THE TILL OR CLAY; ISh'T THAT CORRECT?
10 A. I'M SORRY. I MISSED A CRITICAL PART OF 19 THAT (: U C TION. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT READ 26 AGAIN.
21 Q. I'LL SE HAPPY TO REPHRASE IT.
22 IN THE FRACTURES WHICH WE HAVE JUST BEEN 23 D I S C U S S Ii4 G , THE HAIRLINE FRACTURES WHICH GO
^
24 THROUGH THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE CLAY OR SILTY TILL, 25 ThEY C 0 fiNO N L Y PROVIDE PATHUAYS FOR WATER THROUGH w
o 320 1 THE TILL OR GLACIOLACUSTRIi.E DEPOSITS; IS THAT 2 CORRECT?
3 A. WELL, IT UAS THE WORD " COMMONLY" THAT 4 CONCERNS ME. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE USE OF THE 5 TERM " COMMONLY" IN THAT RESPECT.
6 I WOULD CERTAINLY NOT TESTIFY THAT THEY 7 NEVER PROVIDE PATHWAYS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S 6 C O M ti O N L Y .
9 THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE LUCK AT IN 10 EVERY TILL DLPOSIT --
WELL, EVERY DEPOSIT WE GET 11 INVOLVED UITH, BUT PARTICULARLY THE TILL DEPOSITS 12 A tl D THE GLACIOLACUSTRIf1E DEPOSIT, WE LOOK VERY 13 CAREFULLY AT THOSE DEPOSITS FOR THAT POSSIBILITY.
14 Q. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU WOULD THEN AGREE THAT 15 THESE FRACTURES CAN PROVIDE PATHWAYS FOR WATER?
16 A. THEY CERTAINLY CAN, YES.
17 C; . ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE --
THAT THE SOIL 16 AT THE BURIAL SITE CONTAINS CRACKS IN THE GROUND 15 AT T ii E PRESENT TIME?
20 A. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SURFACE --
SURFACE 21 CRACKING?
22 Q. ,
YES, I A fl .
23 A. I LOULD EE SURPRISED IF IT DIDN'T, YES.
24 O. I THINK I WILL SHOW YOU AN EXHiv1T HERE.
']
25 THIS IS AN EXCERPT TAKEN F R 0 t1 THE DAVIS-BESSE 1
321 1 CERTIFICATE APPLICATION TO THE STATE OF OHIO. I'M 2 GOING TO SHOW YOU THIS AND ASK YOU WhETHER YOU'VE 3 LOOKED AT THIS.
4 JUDGE H0YT: I'M SORRY. I CON'T 5 UNDERSTAND. IS THIS THE PERMIT THAT DAVIS-EESSE 6 MUST ObTAIL FROM THE STATE FOR THIS SITE?
7 HR. VAN KLEY: NO, IT'S NOT, YOUR 0 HONGR. ThIS UAS AN APPLICATION UNICH UAS 9 SU6MITTED BY DAVIS-BESSE TO THE STATE OF OHIO BACK 10 IN -- I THINK IT WAS lL70, 1972 --
IN UHICH THEY 11 DESCRIBED THE GEOLOGY OF THE AREA TO THE STATE OF 12 OHIO FOR PURPOSES OF GETTING A LICENSE FOR THE 13 SITING OF UNITS TUO AND THREE, AND THE REASON THAT 14 I'M GOING TO SHOU M F. . HENDR0t! THIS EXCERPT IS 15 BECAUSE IT CONTAINS REFERENCES TO THE FISSURES IN 16 THE AREA. I'M GOING TO ASK HIN UhETHER HE HAS 17 LOOKED AT THIS APPLICATION IN PREPARATION FOR HIS lb TESTIMGNY ON THIS --
THIS NATTER.
19 JUDGE H0YT: ANY OBJECTION?
20 MR. SILDERG: NO.
21 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT.
22 PROCEED.
23 MR. VAh KLEY: ALL RIGHT. THIS 24 EXHIBIT IS B E l f!G MARKED STATE OF OHIO EXHIEIT NO.
25 7 FOR IDENTIFICATION.
I
I l . 322 l
l l 1 MR. S I L E E P. G : ARE WE SWITCHIf4G lO 2 FROM LETTERS TO NUMBERS?
3 MR. V /t N KLEY: I'M SORRY. IT l
l' 4 SHOULL BE G.
5 - - -
l 6 THEREUPON, STATE OF OHIO EXhlSIT G WAS 7 MARKED FOR PURPOSES CF IDENTIFICATION.
L - _ _
S JUDGE H0YT: WHAT HAPPENED TO E?
10 MR. VAN KLEY: E AND F HAVE 11 ALREADY BEEN tiARKED ON OTHER D O C U tie N T S THAT WILL 12 BE USED IN A COUPLE OF --
13 JUDGE HOYT: BUT tie HAVE NOT 14 SEEN E AND F.
15 MR. VAN KLEY: RIGHT.
16 JUDGE HOYT: DO YOU HAVE THE 17 ORIGINAL OF THIS DOCUMENT IN THE HEARING ROOM?
16 MR. VAN KLEY: I DON'T HAVE A 19 COMPLETE URIGINAL -
IT'S LIKE T il A T T il I C K 2U (INDICATING) -- WITH t;E . WE CAN SUBMIT IT FOR THE 21 RECORD LATER ON IF YOU SO DESIRE.
22 JUDGE HOYT: t10 . I JUST WANT TO 23 CE SURE THAT WE hAVE THE RIGHT PAGES FROM THAT 24 D O C U tie L T . I DON'T LIKE TO TAKE THIS IN UNLESS WE 2C KNOW THAT IT WAS, IN FACT, IN THE ORIGINAL.
. 323 1 MR. VAN KLEY: UH-HUH.
G '
t UUDGE HOYT: BUT I HAVE YOUR 3 ASSURANCE OF THAT, DO I NOT?
4 NR. VAN KLEY: YES, YOU DO. IF S YOU UANT US TO SUBMIT A FULL COPY OF IT LATER ON, 6 UE'LL SE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
7 JUDGE HOYT: I THINK UNLESS YOU 8 HAVE AN OBUECTION, MR. SILBERG, OR THERE'S 9 06UECTION FROM ANY OF THE OTHER INTERVENORS, THAT 10 REPRESENTATION SHOULD DE SUFFICIENT.
11 NR. SILBERG: THAT'S FINE. UE 12 HAVEN'T CHECKED THIS, BUT I'N ASSUMING THIS IS A
() 13 COPY OF A DOCUMENT IDENTIFIED.
14 UUDGE HOYT: WELL, WE HAVE THE 15 REPRESENTATION OF COUNSEL. IF YOU UANT TO GET 16 II TO THE ACCURACY OF IT, WE'LL HAVE TO GET THE 17 ORIGINAL.
10 PROCEED.
1S hR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. THANK YOU, 20 YOUR HONOR.
21 BY MR. VAN KLEY:
22 Q. MR. hENbRON, I'D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR 23 ATTENTION TO THE EOTTOM OF PAGE 13 ON 2-6-17.
24 IT'S THE LAST SENTENCE ON THAT PAGE, WHICH READS, 25 "THE G L A C I O L A C U S T r11 N E DEPOSIT CONSISTS OF A STIFF
324 1 FISSURED GRAY AND BROWil SILTY CLAY." HAVE YOU 2 SEEh THIS STATEMENT SEFORE?
3 A. HELL, I'VE f4 0 T SEEN THIS APPLICATIOil, DUT 4 I HAVE SEEN THIS CHARACTERIZATION OF THE 5 GLACI0 LACUSTRINE DEPOSIT, YES.
6 Q. YOU HAVE SEEN THIS CHARACTERIZATION OF 7 THE GLACIOLACUSTRINE DEPOSIT AT THE DAVIS-BESSE C SITE?
9 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT. I*D ALSO LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR 11 ATTENTION TO THE PAGE IN WHICH THE PREVIOUS 12 S E N T El!C E ENDED, WHICH IS 1302-B-18r TOWARDS THE
,y 13 L O T T 0 fi 0F THE PAGE, WHERE IT STATES, "THE TILL lh '
l '. DEPOSIT CONSISTS OF A HARD FISSURE GRAY TC BROWN 15 SILTY S A t4 D CLAY WITH GENERALLY LESS THAN TEN 16 P E R C E f4 T GRAVEL." I WOULD A S S U tie FROM YOUR 17 PREVIOUS ANSWER THAT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT 16 STATEMENT EITHER?
15 A. I'h SGRRY. THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN IT?
20 Q. YES.
El A. UELL, AGAIN, AS IT APPLIES TO THIS 22 PARTICULAR PEhblT, NO, I H A V E t4 ' T , BUT I'VE SEEt 23 THE NATERIAL CHARACTERIZED AS THIS S T AT E tie N T .
') 24 Q. OKAY. lHANK YOU.
25 I Ah NOW GCING TO HAND YOU TWO EXNIBITS
1 325 1 UHICH HAVE BEEN MARKED AS STATE OF OHIO EXHIBITS E 2 AND F. (
3 JUST TO GIVE THIS 5 0 t'. E CONTEXT -
A t! D WE 4 UILL HAVE A WITNESS SPONSORING THESE TUO EXHIBITS 5 LATER ON --
THESE ARE INFRARED AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS.
6 EXHIBIT E WAS TAKEN ON J U f4 E 2, 1962. EXHIBIT F l
7 UAS TAKEN ON NOVEMBER 11, 1950. AND AS I STATED, 6 UE WILL HAVE A UITNESS SPONSORING THESE EXHIBITS 9 LATER O l; .
10 JUDGE HOYT: AND YOU'LL HAVE THE 11 ADDITIONAL COPIES NECESSARY FOR THIS RECORD.
12 MR. VAN KLEY: YES, UE WILL, YOUR
/,
13 HONOR, 14 JUDGE HCYT: VERY WELL.
15 bY MR. VAN KLEY:
l ti 0. I 'll FIRST GOING TO hAVE YOU LOOK AT STATE 17 0F CHIO EXHIblT E MARKED FOR IDEf!TIFICATION.
16 YOU'LL NOTICE THAT WE HAVE A PLASTIC LAM --
A 19 PLASTIC COVER OVER THE TOP OF THIS MAP UHICH HAS 20 SOME BLACK L Ii! E S t.A R K E D ON IT. WOULD YOU PLEASE 21 LOOK AT THE MAP UNDER THE LOCATION OF THE BLACK 22 LINES AND TELL ME LHElHER YOU f:0TICE ANY BLACK 23 LINES I fl THE PHOTOGRAPH ITSELF.
m 24 JUDGE h0YT: CAN I SUGGEST THAT i
7 t 25 ONE OF YOU GENTLEMEN THAT IS S I T T I t! G NEXT TO Y tl E l
l 1
. 326 ;
I 1 WITNESS THERE THAT'S TESTIFYING GIVE tt R . SILBERG A
( 2 SEAT.
3 hR. SILBERG: NO, I CAN STAND l
l 4 OVER HIS SHOULDER.
l l S JUDGE HOYT: CAN YOU SEE ENCUGH? j 6 MR. SIL6 ERG: YES. 1 i
l 7 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT.
i j 8 THE WITNESS: (MR. HENDRON)
\ '
9 YOU'RE ASKING THE (UESTION: DO I SEE EVIDENCE OF 10 DARK AREAS ON THE PHOTOGRAPH UNDERNEATH ALL OF l 11 THESE LINEAMENTS?
12 BY l '. R . VAN KLEY:
13 0, . UNDER /sL L OR ANY OF THEM.
14 A. WELL, I THINK FOR THE MOST PART, YEAH, 15 THE LINEAliENTS ARE DRAWN UNDER AREAS OF THE 16 . SURFACE THAT SHOW DARK AREAS. THE ONLY EXCEPTION J7 THAT I SEE IS ThAT THERE IS AN I D E il T I F I C A T I 0 t:
18 TO --
I LELIEVE LIN. IS AN ABOREVIATIO!1 FOR 19 LINEAMENT OR LINEAR. LINEAMENT B, WHICH IS A l
{ 20 DASHED LINE, I HAVE A LITTLE TOUGH TIME S E E I fig WHY
, t 21 THAT WAS DRAUN CtJ THIS PHOTOGRAPH.
22 0. ALL RIGHT. BUT OTHER T H A tl THE DASH LINE l 23 ThAT IS IDENTIFIED LIN. A OR b, YOU DO SEE AREAS 24 OF BLACK L IllE S ON THE PHOTOGRAPH ITSELF? -
l 25 JUDGE H0YT: COUNSELOR, LET'S DE f 1
l 1
N_ -
, 327 1 CAREFUL WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING. DIRECT THE QUESTION 2 TO THE REPORTER SO SHE C A ti HEAR YOU. SHE'S HAVING 3 A LITTLE TROUSLE H E A R I t!G .
4 A. AS I SAID, FOR THE NOST PART --
THERE'S S ONE THAT'S A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS IN --
h0T 6 SUSPICIOUS IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD, I GUESS, 7 BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY DREU THE L I t:E A M E N T 8 IN AN AREA --
I CON'T KNOW HOW TO IDENTIFY THIS S AREA. IT'S A Y -SH A P E D LINEAMENT ON THE WESTERN 10 EDGE OF THE PhCTOCRAPH.
11 SY MR. \AN KLEY:
1 2- O. ALL RIGHT. BUT OTHER THAN THOSE TWO
?
13 EXCEPTIONS YOU'VE NOTED, YOU DO SEE AREAS OF DARK 14 LINES ON THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH ITSELF?
15 A. FOR THE t:0 S T PART, YES.
16 Q. ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL THE COMMISSION 17 AND THE PEOPLE ThAT ARE WATCHING HERE WHAT, IN lb YCUR OPINION, COULD THOSE BLACK LINES ON THE IS A E R I /. L PHOTOGRAPH EE?
20 A. WE'VE 06 SERVED THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, IN 21 FACT, OR UE'VE OCSERVED THESE LINEAMENTS AT THE 22 SITE AS PART OF GUR EXTENSIVE GEOLOGIC 23 INVESTICATION, AND UE*VE ATTRIBUTED THESE TO --
,'^ '
24 ThE TERh, I BELIEVE, IS PHANTOM DRAINAGE, AND THE 25 SURFACE AND THE P H A tl T OM CRAINAGE, UE BELIEVE, IS
o 323 1 CAUSED BY THE MAYBE SMALL A f4 0 U N T S OF SOLUTION IN 4
, 2 THE BEDROCK. WE'VE USED T H E t4 AT THIS SITE TO 3 REALLY LOOK FOR AREAS IN THE POWER BLOCK AREA AND 4 OTHER AREAS WE'RE BUILDING THINGS TO HAKE A FIRST b DETERMINATION WHETHEP. OR fl 0 T WE THINK WE HAVE A 6 LOW, HIGH OR NE DI Uti POTENTIAL FOR BEDROCK 7 SOLUTION.
8 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN bY THE TERM "EEDROCK S S O L U T I Oi!" ?
10 A. WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY IS AWARE THAT ONE 11 0F THE FOUNDATION DESIGN P R O B L E t4 5 THAT HAD TO EE 12 DONE AT THIS SITE IS THIS --
IS LIMESTONE.
13 L I tie S T O N E IS SOLUTION SUSCEPTIBLE, AND THIS IS ONE 14 0F THE KEY ELEMENTS IN ALL THE GEOLOGIC 15 INVESTIGATIONS THAT H A .3 BEEN DONE AT THIS SITE, IS 16 THIS SOLUTION SUSCEPTIBILITY, AS WELL AS THE 17 SPECIFIC SOLUTION OF THE BEDROCK IN B U I L D I t-! G lb AREAS.
1S LE'VE USEC Th!S APPROACH TO I D E tJ T I F Y 20 AREAS THAT WE FEEL HAVE A HIGHER PROBABILITY OF 21 CONTAINING SCLUTION ACTIVITY. WE'VE (10 T ALWAYS 22 FOUND IN AREAS WHERE WE SEE THESE L I N E /, t4 E tl T S --
OY 23 THE WAY, UE hAVE f OT ALWAYS FOUND SOLUTION IN THE i
O; 24 DECROCK, BUT IT'S D i: E OF THE INDIRECT t4 E A S U R E S OR 25 INDIRECT METHODS WE'VE USED TO MAKE A FIRST CUT AT
323 1 WHETHER UE THINK THERE IS A PROCLEM THERE.
2 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY " SOLUTION"? WHAT IS 3 SOLUTIGhi 4 A. AS THE TERM SUGGESTS, IT'S THE --
IT'S 5 THE CONVERSION OF THE LIMESTONE INTO A S O L U /,6 L E 6 PRODUCT IN THE WEATHERING OF THE LIMESTONE.
7 Q. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIMESTONE THAT'S IN 8 THE LEDROCK OR SOMETHING ABOVE THE EEDROCK7 9 A. NO, LIMESTONE IN THE BEDROCK.
10 0. LET NE HAND YOU WHAT'S BEEN i; A R K E D AS 11 EXHIBIT F AND ASK YOU TO NAKE THE SAME 12 OSSERVATIONS FOR EXHIBIT F?
() 13 JUDGE H0YT: DO YOU HAVE A 14 SECOND SET OF THOSE /. \ A I L A B L E ?
15 NR. VAN KLEY: WE HAVE A SECOND
.L 6 SET WITHOUT iHE L A h l l; A T E D MARKINGS ON IT, IF T H /.T 17 WOULD bE HELPFUL. OTHERWISE, WE'LL JUST LET YOU l 16 LOOK AT THAT AS SOON AS hE'RE DONE.
19 JUDGE KLINE: YEAH, I THINK I'D 20 EATHEE LOOK AT THAT.
21 JUDGE h0YT: YEAH.
14 ;
22 hR. SILBERG: MR. VAN KLEY, YOU !
23 SAID THAT EXHIBIT F UAS ALSO AN INFRARED l
24 PHOTOGRAPH.
O 25 MR. VAN KLEY: I'M SORRY. IT'S A l
330 1 BLACK AND WHITE COLOR --
BLACK AND WHITE. LET ME 2 TRf THAT AGAIN.
3 THE WITNESS: YEAH, BECAUSE THERE 4 IS A SIG DIFFERENCE.
5 MR. VAN KLEY: IT'S A BLACK AND 6 WHITE PHOTO. I'M S O P,R Y . THE FIRST ONE, EXHIBIT 7 Ee WAS I N F F,A R E C . THE SECONC ONE'S BLACK AND L WHITE.
S JUDGE H0YT: AND THE SECOND ONE 10 IS EXHIBIT F.
11 THE KITNESS: THE SECOND ONE IS 12 THE 1550 PHOTOGRAPH.
15 MR. VAN KLEY: THAT IS CORRECT.
14 THE U I Til E S S : OKAY. WELL --
15 dUDGE hoYT: IT SHOULD BE MARKED 16 ON THE COTTOM. BE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ONE.
17 ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT-HAND CORNER.
lb THE WITNESS: YEAH. THANK YOU.
lb LELL, WHILE I WILL FREELY ADMIT TO THE 20 FORUM THAT MY EXPERTISE IN AERIAL AIR PHOTO 21 ANALYSIS IS LIMITEDr I WOULC SUBNIT THAT LOOKING 22 AT LINEAMENTS DRAWN ON I.R. PHOTOGRAPHS WHICH ARE 23 SPECIFICALLY FLOWN TO LOOK FOR WET /sR E A S , DARK 24 AREAS, AND T H E !! USING THE SAME THING ON JUST A O 25 PLAIN BLACK ANL WHITE STEREO PAIR.
1 IS REALLY KIND e 2 IT APPLES AND ORANGES TO SOME 3 L I t11 T A T I ON , I WOULD SAY T f.
4 I SUSPECT IS S I f1I L A R TO Th 5 THE I . it . O!! EXHTUIT E IS C 6 AT ALL PRESENT ON THE BLAC
< 7 IT'S -- IT'S A LITTLE DIFF 8 Q. THAT'S BECAUSE El 9 DON'T SHOW THE LINEAMEt1TS 10 ISN'T THAT THE CASEI 11 /t . UELL, THAT COULDf 12 CASE. AfiD AS FAR AS THE L 13 DRAUti, A G A l fi , THE DASH lib 14 SEE THEM clE R E . I JUST --
15 THINK UH/T YOU'VE S H O h i, CC I
16 DLACK AND WHITE P H O T O G R /s P I' 1
17 I D O f1
- T KNOW UHAT l' 10 TIME OR ANYTHING, So IT CC l' 19 THERE IS V E 'R Y LIMITED EVIC 20 LINEARS IN THE CELL AREAS.
23 21 SO I'VE GCT A --
2- 22 THE LINEARS THAT ARE S H G U t<
23 23 PHOTOGRAPH, AND I'VE GOT A 2 'I 24 L i llE A R S Of4 T f! E INFRARED P I-25 25 I D E ls T I F I E D .
1 331
- 1 IT IS REALLY KIND OF LIKE COMPARING
~ 2 APPLES AND ORANGES TO SOME EXTENT. BUT TO THAT 3 L I tt I T AT I ON , I WOULD SAY THAT THE LINEAMENT A WHICH 4 I SUSPECT IS SIMILAR TO THE LINEAMENT A SHOWN ON 5 THE I.R. Oil EXHIBIT E IS CERTAINLY NOT AS CLEAR IF
(
6 AT ALL PRESENT ON THE BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOGRAPH.
7 IT'S --
IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT DO SEE.
E Q. THAT'S BECAUSE ELACK AND WHITE PHOTOS 9 DON'T SHOW THE LINEAMENTS AS W t: L L AS INFRARED; 10 ISN'T THAT THE CASE?
11 A. BELL, THAT COULD DE --
THAT COULD BE THE 12 CASE. A tl D AS FAR AS THE LINEAMENTS THAT YOU'VE
( ) 13 DRAUN, A G A l ti , THE DASH LINEAMENTS, I REALLY DON'T 14 SEE THEM HERE. I JUST --
I D 0 14 ' T SEE THEM. I 15 THINK W H /, T YOU'VE SHOWi4 COULD BE CULTURAL ON THIS 16 DLACK AND WHITE PHOTOGRAPH.
17 I D 0 tl ' T KNOW WHAT WAS IN FIELD AT THE lb TIME OR ANYTHING, 50 IT COULD BE CULTURAL, AND 19 THERE IS VERY LIMITED EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND OF 20 LINEARS IN THE CELL AREAS.
21 50 I'VE GCT A -
I'VE GOT A PR00LEM WITH 22 THE LINEARS THAT ARE SHOWi; ON THE BLACK AND WHITE 23 PHOTOGRAPH, AND I'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH THOSE 24 LINEARS ON THE INFRARED PHOTOGRAPH THAT I'VE QJ 25 IDENTIFIED.
332 1 MR. VAN KLEY: I HAVE NO FURTHER 2 OUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
3 JUDGE N0YT: VERY WELL. hE'LL l 4 MOVE TO THE OTHER INTERVENORS. MR. LODGE?
5 MR. LODGE: WE HAVE NO 6 OUESTIONS.
't MR. SILBERG: COULD WE TAKE A 8 BREAK SHORTLY?
9 JUDGE H0YT: UE'RE GOING TO TAKE 10 A SHORT BREAK, A B O,U T TEN MINUTES.
11 (RECESS TAKEN.)
12 JUDGE H0YT: THE HEARING WILL
( 13 COME TO ORDER. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT ALL 14 THE PARTIES TO THE HEARING WHO WERE PRESENT WHEN lb THE HEARING RECESSED ARE AGAIN PRESENT. THE ONLY 16 WITNESS NOT YET RETURNED HAS BEEN DR. LINNEMAN, 17 AND WE WILL NOTE HIS PRESENCE ON THE RECORD WHEN 16 HE COMES IN.
19 AGAIN, GENTLEMEN, I WILL REMING YOU THAT 20 YOU ARE ALL STILL UNDER OATH, IN CASE YOU MAY HAVE 21 FORGOTTEN THAT YOU TOOK THAT YESTERDAY.
22 DEFORE WE PROCEED ANY FURTHER WITH THE 23 STATE OF CHIO'S (: U E S T I O N S , DR. KLINE HAS A FEW
( 24 CONCEhNIfG THAT PARTICULAR AREA THAT YOU COVERED 25 IN YOUR RECENT CROSS-EXthlN/sTION, COUf15ELOR. 50
333 1 AT THIS TIME, LE'RE GOING TO ASK THESE OUESTIONS, 2 ALTh0 UGH WE USUALL) BAIT TILL EVERYONE HAS 3 FINISHED. UE WANT TO HAVE SOME CLARIFICATION 4 hERE.
5 DR. KLINE.
6 - - -
7 EXAMINAT10ti 8 LY JUDGE KLINE:
S 0. COULD YOU DEFINE, FIRST OF ALL, THE TERM 10 " VUG"?
11 A. ( l '. R . HENDRON) THE TERM " VUG" --
AND THIS 12 IS PRGbADLY 110 T GOING TO BE STRAIGHT GUT OF A 13 GLOSSARY 0F GE0LOCIC TERMS --
IS Ah CCCURRENCE IN 14 THE LEDROCK, AND IT'S TYPICALLY A ELLIPTICAL OR 15 CIRCULAR CLOSEL F 0 R F. , SMALL SHAPE WIThIN THE ROCK.
16 THEY CAN CE ISOLATED, OR THEY CAN DE 17 I N T E R C O N!! E C T E C . EUT IT'S A TERii THAT WE USE TC 16 DESCRIBE A Ch/MACTER, A SMALL C L O S E - F O R t' T H I ri G \!E 15 SEE IN THE BECRCCK.
20 (: . OKAY. I 'll H A V I ts G TROUBLE Ut:DERSTANDING 21 THE RELATIONSHIP E E T U E E t! THE POTENTI0 METRIC 22 PRESSURE IN THE bEDRCCK OR ThE ARTESIAN PRESSURE 23 AND THE POSSIBLE CIRECTION OF FLOW OF MATERIAL, 24 AND IT --
ThAT MIGhT CONTAMINATE THE G P. 0 U t: D il / T E R .
25 IT STRUCK ME THAT IF THERE WERE FISSURES
(-_. . _ . _ - _ _ . . - _ - - _ . .- - - - _ --.. . ._ - __. _-._ _-.- - - - _ - - - - _ - _ . .
~
l .
334 t 1 OR PATHWAYS OF FLOW IN THE --
I ll THE O V E R L Y I tJ G k
I 2 TILL ThAT C O M t6 U N I C A T E D blTh THE SEDROCK, THEN l 3 THOSE FISSURES WOULD BE FILLED WITH ARTESIAN 4 HATER, WOULD THEY NOT?
h 5 A. WELL, WE'VE MADE A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE 6 DETERMINATION OF WHICH WAY THE GRADIENT IS IN
} 7 THESE TILL DEPOSITS. GRADIENT IS A DIRECTION OF PLOW OF WATER.
U Ai4D I EELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO GET '
l S INTO THIS IN THE U F C o ti l N G LINE OF QUESTIONS, AND '
i 10 WE MAY i; O T , BUT IN S U t4 M A R Y , OUR DETERMINATION IS l 11 THAT THE GRADIENT OF FLOW IN THAT AREA IS FROM THE ,
12 BEDROCK UP INTO THE GLACIAL SOIL DEPOSITS, 50 13 THAT, IN FACT, YOUR CONTENTION IS EXACTLY CORRECT; !
14 THE DIRECTION OF FLOW IS UPWARD IN THAT AREA AND 15 NOT DOWNWARD. l 16 Q. WELL, WHEN WE SPEAK OF GPADIENT AND ANY f l '/ ARTESIAN PRESSURE, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING OF JUST lb GRAVITATIONAL GRADIENT, I SUPPOSE, BUT GIVEN ThAT 19 THERE'S PhESSURE IN THE EEDROCK, WOULDN'T IT GE 20 60RE CORRECT TO SPEAK OF A PRESSURE GRADIENT?
21 A. WELL, I'LL SPEAK IN GENERIC TERMS. THE ,
22 FACT THAT YOU GET ARTESIAN PRESSURE IN THE BEDROCK e
23 DOESN'T NECESSARILY llEAN THAT YOU GET FLOW FROM 24 THE bEEkOCK UP IhTC THE SOIL.
25 IN CASES WHERE --
LET'S JUST PRESUhE VERY e -- ----,--------sw--e ,-_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
.. _- _ _ _ . _ _ _ % , , , , , .,;c-,.m
335 15 1 QUICKLY THAT UE'VE GOT 100 FEET OF GLACIAL TILL ON 2 TOP OF THE BELROCK NEXT TO LAKE LRIE WHICH WE HAVE
/
3 IN THE LAKE MICHIGAN SIDE. TYPICALLY WHAT WE FIND 4 THEt; IS THAT THE GRADIENT IS FROM THE SOIL 5 DEPOSITS DOWN IN THE DEDROCK SECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE 6 SUCH A HIGH SOIL DEPOSIT IN THE AREA. HERE UE'VE 7 GOT 20 FEET OF THE GLACIAL SOIL UNSATURATED 6 SITTING ON TOP THE GEDROCK THAT HAS ABOUT 15 5 FEET --
AND THAT'S 110 T RIGHT --
I ' ti GOING TO SAY 10 13 FEET OF A R T E S I Al; HEAD ON IT, AND G I V E il THOSE 11 CONDITIONS, PLUS OTHERS THAT ARE CRITICAL, BUT 12 THGSE C 0 ti D I T I O N S , UE FIND THAT LE HAVE A SLIGHT
(-m l 13 UPLARD GRADIENT OF FLOW INTO THE SOIL DEPOSIT AT 14 THIS SITE.
15 (, OKAY. WELL, I GUESS WHAT I'M HAVING 16 TROUBLE SEEING IS HOW MATERIAL CAN FLOW OR COULD 17 FLOL IN THE LELROCK WATER FROM LAND TO LAKE IF THE lb PRESSURE S E E l '. S TO BE OPPOSITE; THAT IS, THE 19 PRESSURE SEEMS TO bE UPEARD OR, YOU KNGU, IT S E E t;S 20 TO ME ThAT WE HAVE TO FOSTULATE S0liETHING F L O U I f!G 21 AGAINST A PRESSURE.
22 A. THE SULSTANCE OF OUR T E S T I M 0 fl Y , WHICH 23 WE'hE f10 T THROUGH WITH YET --
THE SUBSTANCE OF OUR O 24 T E S T i t.O N Y IS THAT T li E R E LILL CE NC RELEASE F R 0fl i )
2b ThIS CELL INTO THE LEDROCK, triD IT'S --
336 1 HYDR 0 GEOLOGICALLY, IT*S NOT POSSIBLE, AND
'Q 2 PRACTICALLY, THE SOIL DEPOSITS ARE SO TIGHT THAT 3 THE FLOW WILL JUST NEVER OCCUR.
4 Q. OKAY. GOING TO CHIO EXHIBIT D, I NOTICE 5 IN S O f4 E OF THE CORINGS ON THE LITTLE BLOCK ON THE 6 B O T T O ti LADELED "UATER ODEERVATIONS," THERE APPEARS 7 TO BE WATER IN S 0 t4 E OF THE SORINGS. COULD YOU 0 INTERPRET W H /s T THE WATER OBSERVATIONS ?!E A N , FOR 9 E X A t4 P L E , IN LOG BORING N U f4 E E R THREE OR --
AND 10 FOUR, FOR THAT f4ATTER.
11 A. OKAY. IN LOG BORINGS N U t4 B E R THREE AND 12 N U t4 D E R FIVE, THE STATE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE em
) 13 FACT THAT WATER UAS HIT AT F I V E - A N D - A - H /s L F FEET 14 AND E I G H T - A ti D - A -H A L F FEET DELOW GROUND SURFACE, 15 AND IN THESE TWO INSTANCES, OUR INTERPRETATION OF 16 THE kl A T E R T H /s T WAS HIT WAS PROBABLY OBSERVED ON 17 THE AUGERS T H E f4 S E L V E S . IT WAS A SMALL A t4 0 U N T OF 16 UATER, A t; D IT WAS WATER THAT WAS BASICALLY 19 ISOLATED WATER TRAPPED IN THE F O R ii A T I O li IN A VERY 20 ISOLATED SECTION OF THE GL,ACIOLACUSTRINE FORMATION 21 DOUN f4 EAR THE CONTACT WITH THE TILL DEPOSIT, AMD 22 WE S0hETIMES F I t; D T H /s T THERE'S S t ', A L L AMOUNTS OF 23 C 0 tim U N I C A T I O N OR --
EXCUSE ME --
SMALL AMOUNTS OF 24 ACCUMULATION THAT OCCUR AT THESE C 0 i1 T A C T S IN
/]
L' 25 DEPOSITS.
I
, .s 337 1 , ,I N . A L L T H E~~ B O P. E H O L E S Y O L/ FIND EVIDENCE OF G y .
j ',r 2 WATEP:f WhEN .7 H E B O R CIV0 % C. G E T QOWN NEAR THE ROCK,
,i+.<~
'i .ANC THE I N .r T A N C E OF'WA[ER/IN iHAT CASE 15 VERY
.4_ H E A VY ' F L O \i CF t! A T E R r 'WHEN, IN FACT, THE BOTTOM OF
~
5 THE 80RCHOLE FENETRATES 7,H R O U G H T H F. VERY TIGH1 6 G L A C I A'L SOIL DEPOSITS AND I N TE R C E P T S -T HE WATER AND
/ *, / -
7 THE V E f, Y PEU.kEABLE OL'DLOCK. -
s ..
8 JUbGE K L I LI : - , [ ,,
O K'A Y . THAT'S ALL 9 THE '.( U E S T I O N S I HAVE. .
10 JUbbE HOYT: i '6 r. . L' I N N E M A N N HAS j,
11 RETURf;ED SO THAT WE CAN HA VE i OU BEGIN YOUR 12 CROSS-EXAMIWATION NOW Ud . T10E OTHER QUESTIONS, AND 13 I CELIEVE YGUlWILL,EEGIN WITH QUESTION fl V M B E P, 7.
14 MR. VAN KLEY: 'OKAY. YOUR HONOR, 15 I THINK WE WERE GOING TO GO T O t, R . JACKSON FIRST 16 UECAUSE HE hAD A PROLLEM,=AS T! ELL AS MR. L I N f1 E N A N .
17 JUDGE HOYT: YES, YOU'RE 16 COMRECT.
19 tiR . VAh KLEY: THAT WOULD BE 20 (;UESTION NO. 9, SG WE'LL S T A R T . U I ~i.H OUESTION 9.
21 JUDGE H0YT: _ ALL RIGHT. THANK 22 YOU.
23 '
24 CROSS-EXAMINATION 25 bY MR. VAN KLEY:
s b
338 1 Q. MR. J A C K S 0il , YOU TALKED ABOUT SOME WORK
'~> 2 THAT YOUR MONITORING GROUP DID. WGULD YOU EXPLAIN 3 WHC WAS IN THAT MONITORING GROUP AND WHAT WORK 4 THAT MONITORING GROUP DID?
5 A. (DR. JACKSON) THE MONITORING GROUP WAS 6 MADE UP OF A GROUP OF FACULTY MEMBERS AT THE 7 BOWLING GREEN STATE UNIVERSITY WITH PROFESSIOf:AL 0 EXPERTISE IN SEVERAL AREAS OF EIOLOGY, GEOLOGY --
S I'M SORRY. NOT GEOLOGY --
VARIOUS AREAS OF 10 LIOLOGY AND METEOROLOGY.
11 Q. HOW MANY MEllB E R S PARTICIPATED IN THE 12 STUDY OF THE DAVIS-CESSE SITE?
.) 13 A. THERE LOULD HAVE DEEN, I BELIEVE, SIX 1 /. F A C U '_ T Y MEMBERS. THE FIELD WORK UAS D 0 il E IN PART 15 BY STUDENTS WITH PARTICULAR EXPERTISE OR 16 EXPERIENCE IN SELECTED AREAS WORKING UNDER THE 17 DIRECTION OF THESE RELATED FACULTY MEMBERS.
lb (. 'LET ME ASK YOU, IN THE AREA Of OSSERVING 19 UIRD LIFE AT DAVIS-6 ESSE, HOW MANY OF THOSE 20 MEMBERS PARTICIPATED IN THAT ASPECT OF THE STUDY?
21 A. THERE WERE TWO FACULTY MEMBERS INVOLVED.
22 (. AND LHAT ARE THEIR BACKGROUNDS?
23 A. I WAS ONE OF THOSE, AS WELL AS DR. S T E V E ll f3 24 BESSE OF ThE UNIVERSITY FACULTY WHO IS
(-
25 SPECIFICALLY TRAI!4ED IN MAMMALOGY AND ORNITHOLOGY.
I
~ ^
~ -
? ;
s 333 1 Q. , ARE YOU A TRAINED O Ril I T H O L O G I S 1 YOURSELF?
2 A. YES.
3 C. ALL RIGHT. ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS DID i 4 VISIT THE DAVIS-BESSE SITE FOR PURPOSES OF S OBSERVING LIRD LIFE?
6 A. ARE YOU T A L K I t!G AEOUT ME PERSONALLY OR 7 OUR TEAM?
?
8 ( . YOU AND I It .' LESSE.
S A. THEY WOULD BE IN TERMS OF DOZENS OF 10 VISITS.
11 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO ON THESE VISITS?
12 A. h0VLD DEPEND ON THE PARTICULAR PURPOSE OF l 13 THE VISIT. SOME UCULD BE TO SURVEY ThE GENERAL 14 SITUATION Pfi LATIVE TO OBSERVATIONS OR EXPERIMENTS 15 THAT WERE U llD E R W A Y . IN SOME CASES IT WOULD DE TO 16 TAKE OESERVATIONS. SOME CASES IT WOULD BE TO 17 TRAIN OR h0RK UITH 06 SERVERS PARTICIPATING IN THE 16 PROGRAM. 6E A VARIETY OF F UtJ C T I ON S .
19 Q. ON HCW MANY OCCASIONS DID YOU AND NR.
20 BESSE VISIT NAVARRE MARSH ITSELF TO OBSERVE THE 21 BIRD LIFE ThERE?
22 A. OUR PATTERN $N TERMS OF OBSERVATIONS OF 23 BIRD LIFE CONSISTED OF SURVEYE WHICH WERE DONE 24 DURING LACH QUARTER OF THE YEAR. TWO OR THREE i
F 25 CIACUITS WERE MADE OF THE DAVIS-BESSE PROPERTY
e 340 1 PRItiCIPALLY INVOLVED ALONG THE BEACH ROAD AND THEN y-d 2 A CIRCUIT BACK A R O U f; D THE MARSH AREA ITSELF.
3 THESE OBSERVATIONS OF BIRD LIFE WERE MADE 4 DURING THE SUMMER THE SPRIl2G AND FALL PERIODS AND 5 THE WINTER, AND IN SOME CASES HE AfJ D I MIGHT DE G INVOLVED. IN OTHER CASES WOULD BE A STUDENT TEAM 7 THAT WAS l i: V O L V E D .
8 Q. HOW MANY TOTAL VISITS WERE THERE TO 9 NAVARRE MARSH TO OBSERVE THE BIRD LIFE?
10 A. WE WERE COING WORX DURING THIS PROJECT 11 BETWEEN IS72 AND 1980, AND THERE WERE CIRCUITS 12 tiA D E FOR THE OBSERVATION OF BIRD SPECIES MADE EACH
,23 (j 13 (UARTER, AND NORMALLY TWO TO THREE CIRCUITS WERE 14 MADE FOR EACh DATA BASE, SOMETIMES MORE. THESE 15 WERE --
ALL OF THIS WAS D 0 ll E IN ADDITION TO THE 16 0 6 S E R V A T I 0 tJ S ts A D E SPECIFICALLY AT THE COOLING 17 TOWER.
16 Q. ALL RIGHT.
15 A. SC THAT I WOULD NOT --
WITHOUT BEING ABLE 20 TO GO --
WITHOUT GOING BACK TO ORIGINAL DATA 21 SHEETS BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF 22 THE NUMBER OF TIMES THAT PERSONNEL WERE AT THE 23 SITE. ,
gS 24 0 ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU VISITED THE SITE V'
25 EACH OF THE YEARS FROM '72 TO '607
c 341
.~.
1 A. ARE YOU SAYING PERSONALLY?
(
'w ) 2 Q. YEAH, YCU OR MR. DESSE.
3 A. YES.
4 Q. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU VISITEC-THE SITE 5 D U R I tJG EACH OF THOSE YEARS. YOU DID TWO OR THREE 6 CIRCUITS EACh C;UARTER OF EACh YEAR?
7 A. OUR TEAM WAS INVOLVED IN THAT PROJECT, b YES.
9 0 h M Ei! YOU REFER TO OBSERVATIONS MADE AT 10 THE COOLING TOWER, I ASSUME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 11 BIRDS hMICH HAVE FLOWN INTO THE COOLING TOWER AND 12 KILLED THEMSELVES?
i 13 A. fHAT IS CORRECT.
% 'i 14 Q. ALL RIGHT. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DOING 15 THE O B S ER V A T I OtJ S 7 DID YOU DRIVE OR DIC YOU WALA?
16 A. tiO S T OF THE TIME IT WAS A WALKING TOUR.
17 THIS WAS THE BASIS ON WHICh OUR STANDARD OR 16 REGULAR ASSESSMENTS OF BIRD SPECIES PRESENT WERE 19 MADE. THERE UERE ADDITIONAL TIMES ON WHICH WE DID 20 DRIVE, AND CASUAL OBSERVAYIONS OF PRESENCE OR l
} 21 ABSENCE OF A GIVEN SPECIES t/.I G H T HAVE BEEN NADE.
22 Q. WHAT TIME OF THE DAY DID YOU ORDINARILY 23 DO YOUR BIRD DESERVATIONS?
g^') 24 A. USUALLY THIS OCCURRED IN THE MORNING, BUT C/
25 THERE hAS SOME VARIATION IN THIS, DEPENDING ON /s
f
) -
342 t
1 VARIETY OF CIRCUMSTANCES, SO THAT OTHER TIMES OF
(' '\ I
~) 2 THE DAY OCCURRED AS LELL.
3 Q. WHEN YOU OR MR. BESSE WENT IN THE l
l 4 MORNING, HOW EARLY IN THE tiO R N I t1G DID YOU f
5 ORDINARILY GET TO ThE NAVARRE MARSH AND START YOUR 6 OESERVATIONS?
7 A. AGAIN, IT WOULD DEPEND ON CIRCUMSTANCES, 8 I N C L U D I t1G S E A S O tJ . SOMETIMES THEY B E G A t; AS EARLY 9 AS 7:00. USUALLY THEY WERE 0:00 OR 9:00 IN THE 10 MORNING EEFORE THEY EEGAN.
11 Q. D U R I t4 G YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU MADE SOME 12 OBSERVATIONS CONCERNING BIRD LIFE AT THE
(,-)s 13 DAVIS-bESSE SITE, IF I RECALL. FIRST OF ALL, ON 14 PAGE 56 YOU REFER TO THE KING RAIL. NOW, ARE YOU 15 AWARE THAT --
WELL, LET ME JUST BACK UP A MINUTE.
16 APPARENTLY YOU UERE PARTICIPATING IN THE 17 DIRD CENSUS THAT WAS COING ON BACK If4 THE 1970*5; 18 IS THAT RIGhT?
19 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
20 0. OKAY. THE DATA WHICH YOU GATHERED FORMED 21 THE BASIS FOR THE INFORMATION ON BIRD LIFE AT THE 22 SITE WHICH WAS SUBMITTED BY TOLEDO E D I S O t4 TO 23 VARIOUS AGENCIES FOR O B T A I N Il4 G PERMITS- IS THAT
/~] 24 RIGHT?
,LJ 25 A. I ASSUME IT WAS. I'M NOT FANILIAR WITH
343 1 THE SPECIFIC SU6 MISSIONS THAT WERE MADE.
7-
?
Ka' 2 Q. ALL RIGhT. ARE YOU AWARE THAT IN THE 3 FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT FOR THIS SITE 4 THAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATENENT STATES S THAT THERE IS A GOOD POTENTIAL FOR THE OCCURRENCE 6 OF THE KING RAIL AT THE DAVIS-SESSE SITE?
7 A. IT'S A MARSH AREA IN WHICH HABITAT FOR 6 THE KING RAIL IS PRESENT.
9 Q. 50 YOU UOULD AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT 10 THEU?
- 11 A. YES.
12 Q. ALL RIGHT. AND THE KING RAIL IS A VERY
,s (s ,/
) 13 SECRETIVE BIRD; IS THAT CORRECT?
14 A. ThAT IS CORRECT.
15 Q. 50 CHANCES ARE THAT IF YOU'RE OBSERVING 16 ihE hARShr CHANCES ARE YOU WGULD NOT SEE THAT 17 blRD?
18 A. THAT IS VERY LIKELY.
1S Q. ALL RIGHT. 50 FAR AS THE KIRTLAND'S 20 LARBLER AND THE PEREGRINE FALCON GO, OF COURSE, 21 THOSE ARE NOT BREEDING BIRDS FOR THAT AREA; IS 22 THAT CORRECT?
23 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
7 /~] 24 Q. ALL RIGHT. BUT THIS AREA IS A POTENTIAL 25 MIGRATION PATH FOR BOTH THOSE BIRDS?
344 1 A. IT IS A POTENTIAL PATH, THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. WhAT IS THE FEEDING RANGE OF A BALD 3 EAGLE?
4 A. WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF MANY 5 MILES. I HAVE SEEN BALD EAGLES WHICH I PRESUME TO 6 BE FROh THE POPULATION ALONG THE LAKE ERIE SHORE 7 VERY CLOSE TO BOWLING GREEN, WHICH IS GOING TO BE b A DISTANCE OF l. 0 blLES OR SO.
9 Q. 50 YOU WOULD CERTAINLY -- WELL, I BETTER 10 EACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND ASK YOU --
OF COURSE.
11 THERE ARE BALD EAGLES NESTJNG AT THE OTTAWA 12 blLDLIFE REFUGE; IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A THERE ARE EALD EAGLES NESTING IN A NUMBER 14 OF AREAS ALONG THE LAKE ERIE SHORE.
15 O. THERE ARE, WHAT, SEVEN OR EIGHT NESTS UP 16 THERE?
li A. I'M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT NUMBER THIS 16 YEAR.
19 Q. CERTAINLY NAVARRE MARSH IS WITHIN THE 20 FEEDING RANGE FROM ONE OR MORE OF THESE NESTS; IS 21 THAT CORRECT?
22 A. YES.
23 0. ALL RIGHT. LET hE ASK YOU JUST A
(' ; 24 QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT THE ENDANGERED PLANTS hMICH s _-
25 YOU HAVE REFERRED TO IN YOUR TESTIMONY. WHAT TIME
345 1 0F ThE l EAR DID --
WERE THE OBSERVATIONS OF 2 E N D Al4 G E R E D OR THREATENED PLANTS MADE?
3 A. UHICH 06SERVATIONS ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
4 Q. WELL, LET'S JUST TALK GENERALLY FOR --
AT S FIRST, IF WE CAN, CAN YOU GENERALLY TELL US HOW 3 6 M A i4 Y T I M E 'o THE SITE WAS VISITED FOR OCSERVAT10ti 0F 7 THE THREATENED OR ENDANGERED PLANTS?
( b A. I THINK UE NEEC TO DISTIllGUISH THE KINDS 17 5 0F OBSERVATIONS WhICH WERE t<. A D E . IF YOU ARE i
10 REFERRING TO THE STUDIES t! H I C H WERE DONE DURING 11 19 -- BETWEEN THE 1972-1500 PERIOD, THERE WERE TWO i
12 DISTINCT PHASES OF THIS.
13 OUR M 0 lJ I T O R I N G PROGRAl4 RELATIVE TO PLANT 14 C O N t4 U N I T I E S ti A S D E S I Gt'E D SPECIFICALLY TO QUANTIFY 15 THESE COMhUNITIES AND TC hEASURE CHANGES IN THESE 16 CONMUNITIES RELATIVE TO Ef:VIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS.
17 THESE C0t4MUNITIES WERE MAPPED. THESE COMMUNITIES 10 WERE STUDIED IN A STANDARD MANNER THAT A PLANT r
15 ECGLOGIST WOULD D0. OU/sDRANTS WERE RUN ON SEEDING l
20 RATES APPARENTLY, AND SO ON. THIS WAS A STUDY 21 THAT RAN CVER THE COURSE OF NEARLY A DECADE i
- x2 EXAMINING THE CHANGES IN SOME HALF-A-DOZEN 23 DIFFERENT SELECTED PLANT COMMUNITIES ON THE
}
l f' , 24 DAVIS-CESSE SITE.
l .,
l 25 C. ALL RIGHT. LET ME T P, Y TO GET MORE l
346 1 SPECIFIC NOW AND ASK YOU SO FAR AS YGUR
- 2. DETERMINATIONS AS 10 WHICH ENDANGERED OR 3 THREATENED PLANTS WERE ON THE DAVIE-CESSE SITE, 4 EHAT TIMES OF YEAR hERE THOSE OBSERVATIONS MADE?
5 A. I'N STILL NOT CERTAIN UHAT CBSERVATIONS 6 YOU ARE MAKING REFERENCE TO AT THIS POINT.
7 Q. ALL RIGHT. LOOK AT PAGE 55 OF YGUR b TESTIMONY, PLEASE, AND YOU REFERRED TO SOME 9 INVESTIGATIONS THERE. WHEN UERE THOSE INVEST --
10 kHAT TIME OF THE YEAR UERE THOSE INVESTIGATIONS 11 DONE?
12 A. ALL RIGHT. THIS WAS A STUDY UhlCH WAS A 13 NASTERS THESIS BY MY GRADUATE STUDENT AT BOWLING 14 GREEN UHO UAS STUDYING THE OCCURRENCE OF PLANT 15 SPECIES AT THE DAVIS-BESSE SITE, AND THIS STUDY 16 ENCOilFASSED THE ENTIRE GROWING SEASON, AND IT WAS 17 A STUDENT WHO WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE lb CUANTITATIVE STUDIES OF THESE SELECTED PLANT IS COMMUNITIES WE WERE STUDYING IN GREAT DETAIL.
20 IN NONE OF THE PLANT COMMUNITIES THAT WE 21 STUDIED WAS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES FOUND. IT WAS 22 DURING hlS SURVEY 0F THE LARCER AREAS, THAT IS ALL 23 OF THE AREAS OF THE DAVIS-BESSE SITEr THAT A
' ~'
24 SPECIES WHICh S U E S E C, U E N T L Y WAS D E T E R iil N E D TO BE q-25 ENDANGERED WAS FOUND.
347 !
l 1
1 Q. DID THIS INVESTIGATION INCLUDE N A V A R R F. l 9 2 MARSH?
i 3 A. NO. IT VAS A TERRESTRIAL STUDY.
4 Q. ALL RIGHT. THE ENTIRE GROWING SEASON 5 REFERS T0 hHAT MONTHS OF THE YEAR?
1 6 A. HE STARTED IN THE SPRING --
I WOULD HAVE 7 TO L O O r. SPECIFICALLY AT THE THESIS --
MAY OR J Ul: E r 6 AND CONTINUED INTO THE FALL, SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
9 MR. VAN KLEY: NO FURTHER 10 (UESTIONSr YOUR HONOR.
11 JUDGE H0YT: hR. LCDGE?
12 MR. LCDGE: YES, YOUR HONOR. I 13 hAVE A FEU QUL'STIONS FOR DR. TILL.
14 MR. SILBERG: ARE WE GOING TO --
15 MR. LODGE: WE'RE STILL ON NO.
16 9.
17 hR. SILBERG: -- DO ALL OF 16 QUESTION NO. S OR JUST DR. JACKSON?
19 MR. VAN KLEY: WE MIGHT AS UELL DC 20 ALL OF (UESTION 9. I'VE FINISHED ALL MY OUESTIONS 21 ON IT.
l 22 JUDGE H0YT: YOU HAVE FINISHED 23 ALL YOUR CUESTIONS ON 9?
MR.
i O 24 25 VAN KLEY:
JUDGE H0YT:
YES.
WELL, LET'S JUST l
i l_______
348 1 TAKE EVERYTHING ON QUESTION 9 AT THIS TIME --
2 HR. SILBERG: FINE.
3 JUDGE H0YT: --
AND WRAP THAT 4 ONE UP. ALL RIGHT, NR. LODGE.
5 - - -
6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. LODGE:
6 Q. DOCTOR, Oh PAGE 57 YOU NAKE THE STATEMENT 9 THAT EVEN IF ALL THE WASTE WERE DEPOSITED IN THE 10 LAKE AT ONCE, THE RADIONUCLIDE CONCENTRATIONS 11 WOULD BE WELL BELOW THE M A X I 'lU M PERMISSIBLE 12 CONCENTRATICNS FOR WATER IN PART 20 OF THE N.R.C.
(, 13 REGS. DO YOU RECALL THAT STATEMENT?
14 A. (DR. TILL) YES.
15 Q. FIRST OF ALLr WHEN YOU MADE THAT 16 STATEMENT, DIC YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE PROPOSED 17 RULES THAT THE N.R.C. HAS PROMULGATED?
16 A. THE NEW PART?
19 Q. YES.
20 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
21 Q. WHEN YOU NADE THAT STATEMENT, DID YOU IN 22 ANY WAY INCORPORATE ANY ANALYSES OF RADIOACTIVE --
23 OTHER RADIATION DISCHARGES INTO THE WATER FROM r~'s 24 DAVIS-EESSE?
N,]
25 A. NO.
349 1 Q. MAY I ASSUME, THEN, THAT YOU ALSO DID NOT 2 TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY PERhlSSIBLE ONGOING 3 RADIATION DISCHARGES FROM FERMI?
4 MR. SILBERG: OBJECTION. OUTSIDE 5 THE SCOPE OF ThIS HEARING.
6 MR. LODGE: IT'S THE S A f4 E LAKE, 7 YOUR HONCR.
U NR. SILBERC: YES, BUT WE'RE 9 TALKING AbOUT A DIFFERENT NUCLEAR POWER PLANT 10 OPERATED GY A DIFFERENT UTILITY IN A DIFFERENT 11 PART -- IN A DIFFERENT STATE.
12 JUDGE H0YT: WHAT'S THE
( j 13 RELEVANCE OF THE QUESTION, MR. LODGE?
14 MR. LODGE: ThAT, IN EFFECTr 15 ThE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION DOES LICENSE 16 hUCLEAR P0bER P L A f; T S TO EMIT CERTAIN LOW LEVELS OF 17 RADIATION. I'M T R Y I t!G TO FIND OUT IF THE lb STATENENT THAT DR. TILL MADE WAS MADE ISOLATED 15 FROM ANY CONSIDERATION OF THE PRESENCE OF 20 RADIATION IN LAKE ERIE WATER. IN OTHER WORDSe DID 21 HE MAKE A S T A T E t1 E N T THAT IF THE WASTE WERE DUMPED 22 COMPLETELY INTO THE LAKER WCULD IT BE CUMULATIVELY 23 AFFECTIVE OR INAFFECTIVE TO WILDLIFE IN THE LAKE?
- 24 JUDGE H0YT: AND YOUR OBJECTION, J
e b . e
350 1 MR. SILBERG: NOT IF HE ASKS 2 THE --
THE EFFECT OF UHATEVER MIGHT BE RELEASED ON 3 TOP OF WHAT'S ALREADY IN THE LAKE, BUT NOT IF UE 4 GET INTO F E R ti l .
5 dUDGE h0YT: INTO FERMI.
6 MR. SILBERG: YEAH. I WOULD 7 OBJECT TC QUESTICi!S THAT GET INTO ANOTHER NUCLEAR 8 PCUER PLANT. -
9 JUDGE HOYT: WITH THAT 10 LIMITATION, MR. LODGE, CAN YOU REPHRASE YOUR 11 O U E S 'l I O N ?
12 MR. LODGE: NC, I'M NOT SURE I Iv ) 13 CAN.
14 SY MR. LODGE:
15 O. DOCT0k, DID YOU OETAIN ANY DATA FROM ANY 16 SOURCE I I: RENDERING YCUR TESTIh0NY CONCERNING THE 17 PRESENCE OF RADIATION IN LAKE ERIE? .
lE A. SURE. LET ME --
LET ME TRY TO ANSEER 15 THAT. I DON'T Kl. J W IF IT WILL SPECIFICALLY ANSWER 20 YCUR (UESTION, GUT I THINK IT MAY PUT THIS AMOUNT 21 0F ACTIVITY THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH INTO SOME KIND 22 0F PERSPECTIVE.
23 IF YOU CONSIDER THE LEVELS OF, SAY, 24 C E S I U M - 13 '/ THAT CURRENTLY ARE PRESENT IN THE LAKE, 7/~^)
Q,/
25 AND I'VE USED SOME RCUGH FIGURES, BUT WE'RE
351 1 TALKING ABOUT CN THE ORDER OF HUNDREDS OF CURIES 2 OR, SAY A 100 CURIES OF CESIUM-137, TOTAL A M O U t!T 10 3 OF ACTIVITY PRESENT IN LAKE ERIE.
4 STRONTIUM-90, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN 5 ORDER OF MAGNITUDE GREATER. AND LOOK AT ANOTHER 6 NATURAL --
OR A NATURALLY OCCURRING RADIONUCLIDE 7 LIKE POTASSIUM-40, A f; D IF YOU CONSIDER THE TOTAL U AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY OF POTASSIUM-40 IN LAKE ERIE, 9 UE'RE TALKING ROUGHLY IN THE ORDER OF HUNDREDS OF 10 THOUSANDS OF CURIES OF K-40.
11 SO TO PUT THIS AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY IN 12 PERSPECTIVE, IF YOU DUMP IT INTO THE LAKE, IT'S
) 13 INSIGNIFICANT.
14 NOW, HOW YOU WOULD COMPARE THAT WITH 15 SPECIFIC EMISSIONS FROM NUCLEAR FACILITIES, I 16 REALLY DON'T KNGW DECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE 17 EMISSIONS ARE, AND I DIDN'T LOOK AT THEM.
16 (;. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, AS LONG AS IT IS IS DILUTED, THEN THE POLLUTION SOLUTION IS ACHIEVED; 20 IS THAT RIGHT?
21 A. YOU CAN SAY THAT Til AT ' S TRUE, SURE, 22 LECAUSE IT WOULD EVENTUALLY BECOME DILUTED, YES.
23 Q. AND IN MAKING YOUR ASSUMPTION, UERE YOU
'~- 24 REFERRING TO ALL OF THE CELLS BEING FULL AND ALL 25 CF THEN BEING DISCHARGED INTO THE LAKE?
352 1 A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. IN WHAT, AFPROXIMATELY 20 OR 25 YEARS?
3 A. ANY TIME YOU WANT TO.
4 Q. bHAT DATA --
WHAT IS THE DATE OF THE DATA 5 THAT YOU DID EXAMINE ON THE LEVELS OF RADIATION IN 6 LAKE ERIE APPROXIMATELY?
7 A. I WOULD SAY IT'S LATE '70*S.
L Q. 50 IT PREDATES --
S A. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DATE OF THE 10 PUBLICATIONS.
11 Q. IT PREDATES, FOR INSTANCE, THE CHERNC6LE 12 DISASTER; CORRECT.
( ) 13 A. ThAT'S A CORRECT STATEMEtiT, YES.
14 JUDGE H0YT: JUST A MOMENT, SIR.
15 MR. LODGE, I'M GOING TO CAUTION YOU ONCE 16 AGAIN ON THIS. THIS MATTER IS DEALING WITH THE 17 DAVIS-DESSE PLANT.
10 MR. LODGE: I UNDERSTAND.
19 JUDGE H0YT: il E ARE NOT 20 CONCERNED WITH NUCLEAR INCIDENTS IN OTHER PARTS OF 21 THIS COUNTRY OR OF THE WORLD.
22 MR. LODGE: I UNDERSTAND THAT.
23 JUDGE H0YT: VERY WELL. 50
/O 24 WE'LL RESTRICT YOUR QUESTI0li.
/ '
/
</
25 MR. LODGE: I UNDE,RSTAND THAT.
i 353 1 JUDGE HOYT: VERY UELL. THANK 2 YOU.
3 i'. R . LODGE: I BELIEVE, YOUR 4 HONOR, IT IS WELL-KNOWN THERE WAS RADIATION --
5 dUDGE HOYT: MR. LODGE, I JUST 6 CAUTIONED YOU. WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH THAT 7 MATTER. WE'RE DEALING WITH THE DAVIS-BESSE PLANT
\
i 6 ONLY.
S hR. LODGE: PLEASE NOTE MY 10 EXCEPTION TO YOUR RULING.
11 UUCGE HOYT: VERY WELL.
12 NOW, IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL ANSWER,
> fq ,-) 13 SIRr YOU MAY GIVE IT.
14 THE WITNESS: NO, I DON'T, YOUR 15 HONOR.
)
16 dUDGE HOYT: ALL RIGHT.
l 17 6Y MR. LODGE:
i j lb O. hMEN YOU ASSUME DISCHARGE INTO THE LAKE, 19 DID YOU ASSUME THAT THE MATERIAL WOULD REMAIN f
I GUESS I'M CURIOUS AS TO 21 UHETHER YOU ASSUMED THAT THE MATTER WOULD BECOME 1
1
'2 DISSOLVED IN THE WATER.
23 A. ACTUALLY, TO SATISFY MY OWN MIND THAT f~ 24 THIS AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY WOULD PRESENT NO HAZARD TO N,)3
! 25 AOUATIC BIOTA, I JUST MADE A ROUGH CALCULATION
4 354
! 1 TAKING THIS ACTIVITY AND DUMPING IT I N'T O A FEW 2 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER AS A DILUTION. THE DOSES 3 THAT I CALCULATE EVEN IN THAT VERY. VERY 4 CONSERVATIVE METHOD ARE EXTREMELY LOW.
5 MR. LODGE: NOTHING FURTHER.
6 JUDGE H0YT: OKAY. COUNSELOR, t / WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD WITH YOUR NEXT b OUESTION, ANC I THINK YOU WERE GOING TO GET INTO i
! S ONE OF THE WITNESSES THAT --
10 hR. VAN KLEY: YES, I BELIEVE l
! 11 MR. LINNEMANN HAS A PROCLEM WITH TIME CONSTRAINTS 12 AS WELL.
! ! 13 JUDGE H0YT: YES, IF YOU CAN 14 COVER HIS 0.UESTIONS, THAT WAY HE CAN GO.
15 MR. VAN KLEY: MR. L I tJ N E M A N N , YOU 16 WERE INVOLVED WITH QUESTI0fl 16? WERE THERE ANY 17 OTHERS SESIDES 16?
l 1L hk. L I N t. E M A N N : I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
I 1S MR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, 20 THE STATE IS NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON 21 16, SO UE CAN GO DIRECTLY TO MR. LODGE IF YOU SO l 22 DESIRE.
j 23 JUCGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT. LET ME I
['s 24 DETERMINE IF ANY OF THE OTHER REPRESENTATIVES HAVE
( )
x_ -
25 ANY QUESTIONS ON NUhBER 16 FOR DR. LINNEMANN.
f I
)
1 - _ _ _ _ _ _
1 DID YOU HAVE ANY, MR. LODGE?
2 MR. LCDGE: YES, I DO.
3 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT. PLEASE 4 PROCEED.
5 NR. LODGE: THANK YOU.
6 - - -
7 CROSS-EXAMIt4ATION 8 BY MR. LODGE:
S Q. DOCTOR, THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE REFERENCE 10 IN YOUR T E S T I ttO N Y TO THE BEIR III STUDY; IS THAT 11 CORRECT' 12 A. (DR. LINNEMANN) THAT'S CORRECT.
, cs
( ) 13 0. WHAT IS THAT, PLEASE?
(' '
14 A. CIOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF IONIZING RADIATIOi!,
15 AND IT'S THE THIRD STUDY THAT THE NATIONAL ACADEMY 16 0F SCIEhCES hAD C 0 ii D U C T E D ON THOSE EVENTS.
17 Q. AND IT WAS PUBLISHED APPROXIMATELY WHEN?
18 A. 1562, I BELIEVE.
19 Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE REPORT OF THE 20 INNERAGENCY TASK FORCE ON THE HEALTH EFFECTS OF 21 I ON I Z I t!G RADIATION PUBLISHED SY THE U.S.
22 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION AND WELFARE, NOW 23 H.H.S.?
n 24 A. I KAS FANILIAR WITH IT YEARS AGO WHEN IT 7
q ,,'
25 CAME OLT, YES.
356 1 0. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT AS BEING A 2 LENGTHY E I G HT-VO L UfiE STUDY?
3 A. YES, I AM.
4 C. DO'YOU RECALL OR WOULD YOU ACCEPT THAT 5 THERE IS A S T A T Eli E N T ON PAGE 32 OF THE MAIN VOLUME 6 OF THAT STUDY SAYING THAT DOSES IN THE POINT 7 TWO -- TWO-TENTHS TO 20 REM RANGE APPEAR TO O INCREASE THE RISK OF CHILDHOOD CANCER?
9 MR. SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. IF 10 THERE'S SUCH A DOCUMENT, COULD YOU SHOW IT TO THE 11 WITNESS SINCE HE SAID --
12 dUDGE HOYT: DO YOU HAVE THAT
, c, v
j 13 AVAILABLE, MR. LODGE?
14 MR. LOCGE: NC, I DO NOT.
lS NR. SILEERG: I BELIEVE THE 16 DOCTOR SAID HE HAD SEEN IT A LONG TIME AGO. I'M 17 NOT SURE THAT T H A T S A --
16 NR. LODGE: HE SAID hE WAS 19 FAMILIAR WITH IT SOME TIME AGO.
20 THE WIThESS: I WOULD LIKE -
21 COULD I READ OR SEE WHAT YOU'RE READING FROM?
22 MR. LODGE: I JUST HAVE SOME 23 NOTES HERE, SIR.
, '^'i s
24 JUDGE HOYT: MR. LODGE, IF YOU
's_f#
25 DON'T HAVE THE FULL DOCUMENT, I'M RELUCTANT TO
357 1 PERMIT A OUESTION ON IT WHEN THE WITNESS IS ASKED 2 TO TAKE SONETHING OUT OF "0NTEXT, EVEN MORE 3 CIEFICULT FROM YOUR NOTES. IF YOU HAVE AT LEAST A 4 FAGE OF THE FULL TEXT FROM WHICH THAT WAS TAKEN, S THAT WOULD BE ONE THING. IT MAY HAVE AN EFFECT ON 19 6 IT.
7 hR. LODGE: YOUR HONOR, I E APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING IT. h0 WEVER, I WOULD 9 NOTE THAT IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE FOR THIS 10 HEARING, IT INDICATED THAT GENERALLY DATA AND 11 MATERIAL FROM GENERALLY AVAILABLE PUBLICATIONS MAY 12 BE CITED RATHER THAN FURNISHED. I DON'T HAVE IT
) 13 WITH ME.
14 dUDGE HOYT: l' E L L , V!E*RE NOT 15 TALKING ABOUT --
I THINK THE NOTICE GOES TO THE 16 EFFECT WHAT WE WOULD DO AS FAR AS PUTTING THEM IN 17 THE RECORD IS CONCERNED, BUT YOU ARE 16 CROSS-EXAMINING A WITNESS, AND I THINK T H /$ T ' S A 19 LITTLE DIFFERENT SITUATION. LET ME PHRASE THAT 20 bETTER. I THINK IT IS A MUCH LARGER AND MUCH MORE 21 DIFFERENT SITUATION.
22 MR. SILBERG: IF I COULC MAKE A 23 SUGGESTION, IF MR. LODGE COULD JUST SIMPLY ASK
/~ 24 WHETHER THE WITNESS AGREES OR DISAGREES WITH A 25 PARTICULAR STATEMENT AND THEN LET IT GO FROM
358 1 THERE.
2 Mk. LODGE: FINE.
3 JUCGE H0YT: ASSUMING THAT THAT 4 STATEMENT IS ACCURATELY QUOTED, AND THE WITNESS 5 \.ILL HAVE TO DO THAT.
6 MR. SILBERG: WELL, REGARDLESS OF 7 THE SOURCE OF THE STATEMENTr THAT SOURCE IS REALLY 6 IRRELEVANT.
S BY MR. LODGE:
1C Q. DOCTCRr DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THE 11 STATEMENT THAT DOSES IN THE TWO-TENTHS TO 20 REM l
12 RANGE APPEAR TO INCREASE THE R '. S K OF CHILDHOOD 13 CANCER?
14 A. I ThINK THE TWO-TENTHS IS PROBABLY LOW.
15 THE STUDIES THAT REFER TO CHILDHOOD CANCER ALK IN 16 IN T E R P.S OF ABOUT 2,000 MILLIREM OR TWC REM AND 17 ABOVE, AND THESE STUDIES UERE DONE WITH X-RAYS OR 16 DONE ON PREGNANT LOMEN UHO HAD RECEIVED X-RAYS.
19 0. NOU, DOCTOR, AT, I BELIEVER PAGES 68 AND 20 f* S OF YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU TALK ABOUT THE LINEAR 21 NO-THRESHOLD HYPOTHESIS AS BEING CONSERVATIVE. IS 22 THAT A FAIR STATEhENT?
23 A. ThAT IS.
24 (. ARE YOU AWARE OF STUDIES CR SCIENTIFIC
)
m 25 OPINION UHICH HOLDS THAT THE LINEAR NO-THRESHOLD
359 1 HYPOTHESIS IS ACTUALLY MORE OF A CENTER OR 2 fiAINSTREAM VIEW?
3 A. IT IS FOR NEUTRONS. I'M AWARE OF STUDIES 4 FOR NEUTRONS WHICH H A VE A MUCH HIGHER BIOLOGICAL 5 EFFECT FACTOR, 6UT FOR X-RAYS OR GAMMA FHOTONS, 6 THE L illE A R NO-THRESHOLD HYPOTHESIS APPEARS TO BE 7 THE MobT CJNSERVATIVE.
8 Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT THE STUDY QUOTEC, THE 9 BEIR STUDY, GENERALLY CONCLUDED THAT THE BEST 10 E S T I t'i A T E AVAILABLE WAS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE 11 LINEAR NO-THRESHOLD HYPOTHESIS?
12 MR. SILBERG: I'M SCRRY. COULD I
) 13 HAVE A C L A R I F I C A T l U N 't THE BEST ESTIMATE OF WHAT?
14 MR. LODGE: OF THE EFFECTS OF 15 LOW-LEVEL RADIATION.
16 BY MR. LODGE:
17 Q. DO YOU RECALL READING ON THAT SUBJECT?
16 A. I DON'T RECALL THAT SPECIFICALLY IN THAT 19 STUDY. I KNOW ThAT STUDY WAS DONE SOMETIME IN THE 20 '70'S, BUT SINCE THEN SOME OTHER STUDIES, THE ONE 21 THAT I (UOTEL, THE NATIONAL A C A D EliY OF SCIENCES, 22 THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF RADIATION 23 PROTECTION, THE UNITED NATIONS COMMITTEE ON
,~, 24 RADIATION EFFECTS, HAvE ALL REVIEUED THIS MATERIAL
!' /
25 AliD IN hUCH GREATER DETAIL THAN THAT LABOSSI l
l
360 1 (PHONETIC) C 01tM I T T E E --
THAT'S UHAT THAT IS --
2 HAVE DONE, AND I BELIEVE THAT AS YOU LOOK AT THIS 3 MATERIAL, YOU'LL FIND THAT THE CONSENSUS IS THAT 4 THE LINEAR NO-THRESHOLD HYPOTHESIS IS THE NOST 5 CONSERVATIVE FOR THE AREAS OF EFFECTS WHERE WE 6 hAVE NO DATA.
7 0. WASN'T BEIR III IN DRAFT FORM IN 1979?
6 A. I T H I ll K THEY WERE JUST BEGINNING TO MEET.
5 I BELIEVE THAT THEY REALLY --
THE FIRST DRAFT WAS 10 ABOUT 19EG OR *El.
11 JUCGE HOYT: DOCTORr WHEN YOU 12 COMPLETE YOUR TESTIMONY, WOULD YOU SE SURE TO GIVE p.
[v) 13 THE SPELLINGS OF ALL THESE DOCUMENTS TO THE 14 REPORTER?
15 ! MIGHT ASK THAT THE OTHER WITNESSES WHO 16 HAVE USED A LOT OF TECHNICAL T E P. M S , WOULD YOU ALSO 17 CO THAT?
16 CY MR. LODGE:
15 C. DOCTOR, DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT S OtiE 20 PERCENTAGE OF CANCER DEATHS ARE CAUSED OR I t! D U C E D 21 BY LOW-LEVEL BACKGROUf,D RADIATION?
22 t '. R . SILBERG: EXCUSE ME. COULD l 23 UE HAVE A DEFINITION OF " LOW-LEVEL"?
7 24 BY MR. LODGE:
%d' j 25 O. LELL, STRIKE " LOW-LEVEL."
9 361 1 DOCTOR, WHAT'S BACKGROUND RADIATION TO 2 YOU?
3 A. AS IN WHAT? IN TERMS OF NUMBERS OR 4 QUALITATIVE OR QUANTITATIVE?
5 Q. ECTH.
6 A. BACKGROUND OR NATURAL BACKGROUND 7 RADIATION IS GENERALLY A SUM OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT L OR TOTAL SOURCES OF RADIATION THAT WE RECEIVE AS A S NATURAL PART OF OUR ENVIRONMENT.
10 Q. DO YOU A C K N O ti L E D G E THAT ANY FATALITIES, 11 ANY -- CAN YOU CUANTIFY ANY FATALITIES PER YEAR 12 EEING CAUSED 6Y CANCERS FROM LACKGROUND RADIATION?
) 13 A. NO, I CANNOT. AND MANY STUDIES HAVE SEEN 14 ATTEMPTED AT THIS, AND IF YOU REFER TO THE BEIR 15 COMMITTEE, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE EVEN MADE THE 16 STATEMENT THAT IT IS UNLIKELY THAT WE WILL EVER BE 17 ABLE TO DETERMINE EFFECTS OF RADIATION AS LOW AS 18 L A C KG R O U t:D EECAUSE THE EFFECTS, IF THEY ARE 19 PRESENT, ARE JUST TOO SMALL TO DETECT.
20 C. YOU'RE AWARE OF STUDIES, H O ti E V E R , THAT DO 21 ATTRIBUTE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF DEATH 3 TO 22 B A C K G R O Ul;D RADIATION; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 A. THESE, MR. LODGE, ARE NOT REALLY STUDIES.
, )
24 THESF ARE A S S U lip T I O N S THAT PEOPLE --
THAT YOU MAKE
'w 25 AS SCIENTISTS, L' H E h YOU'RE DEALING IN AN AREA
362 1 WHERE THERE ARE NO FACTS, YOU -- YOU LOOK AT IT
\' '
2 FROM A THEORETICAL POINT OF VIEb AND MAKE SOME l 3 A S S U M P T I Oi15 , AND IF STATEMENTS --
AND PEOPLE H A '. E 4 COME UP WITH, "WELL, IE THERE UERE EFFECTS, THEN 5 JNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, WE SHOULD SEE THOSE 6 E F F E C T S . '- I MEAN, THOSE EFFECTS WOULD BE SOME 7 NUhBER. BUT THE TRUE FACT IS THAT NODODYr NOBODY b HAS ANY HARD DATA THAT SHOWS RADIATION LEVELS OF S BACKGROUND THAT SHOUS EFFECTS IN THE POPULATION.
10 Q. 50 YOU'RE NOT PROFESSIONALLY DENYING THE 11 POSSIBILITY?
20 12 A. OH, I UON'T DENY ANY SCIENTIFIC (j 13 POSSIBILITY, GUT THE FACT IS WE DON'T HAVE FACTS 14 ON IT.
15 MR. LODGE: NOTHING FURTHER.
o 16 JUDGE HOYT: THANK YOU.
17 YOU FOLKS READY TO GO WITH THE NEXT 16 00ESTION?
lb MR. VAN KLEY: YES. I BELIEVE THE 20 LAST WITNESS FOR TOLEDO EDISON THAT HAS A PROBLEM 21 UITH TIME CONSTRAINTS IS MR. HETHERINGTON; IS THAT 22 CORRECT?
23 THE UITNESS: YES.
f') 24 MR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. YOU L.,)
25 TESTIFIED FOR QUESTICNS 16 AND 19?
i 363 1
1 THE WITNESS: YES.
2 MR. VAN KLEY: ANY OTHERS?
3 THE WITNESS: NO.
4 AR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. I GUESS WE 5 WILL PROCEED WITH 18 AND 19 THEN, YOUR HON 0s.
6 dUDGE H0YT: YES, PLEASE.
i 7 MR. VAN KLEY: OKAY. MISS SIGLER t
L WILL DO THF CROSS-EXAMINATION FOR THE STATE.
- s. - - -
10 CROSS-EXAMINATION 11 BY MS. 5IGLER:
12 Q. MR. HETHERINGTON, YOU'RE THE MARKETING
(. ,) 13 MANAGER FOR EPICOR?
i 14 A. (MR. HETHERINGTON) YES, I AM. .
15 O. AND THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY AWARE THAT THERE 16 IS A MANUFACTURER'S WARNING THAT APPEARS ON THESE 17 RESINS TO THE EFFECT THAT IF IT'S INGESTED, THAT 10 V0HITING SHOULD BE INCUCEC?
1S A. WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHICH PARTICULAR I 20 SAFETY CATA SHEET YOU LOOK AT. I HAVE SEVERAL i
21 HERE IF YOU'D LIKE TO LOOK AT T f' E t1 THAT DO NOT 2
22 STATE THAT AT ALL.
23 0. OKAY. FOR --
! , r') 24 A. I HAVE THE SHEETS FROM DOW CHEMICAL
( /
25 COMPANY, AND SOME FROM ROHM AND HAAS ARE THE TWO
364 1 mad 7R MAMUFACTURERS IN THE UNITED STATES.
2 Q. SONE MANUFACTURERS THEN 00 SUGGEST 3 N OM I T I t,G IN THE CASE IT'S INGESTED?
4 A. WELL, LET'S SAY SOME OF THE DATA SHEETS S FROM RCHM AND HAAS DO INDICATE THIS, BUT I THINK 6 THEY'RE A FEW YEARS OLD PROBABLY.
7 Q. 50 --
0 A. IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THESE OTHER SHEETS, 9 I HAVE THEM RIGHT HERE.
10 Q. IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF RESIN THEN?
11 A. I WOULD SAY THAT THE RESIN ITSELF IS 12 BEING USED IN DRUGS THAT ARE ON THE MARKET AND HAS 13 BEEN USED 5INCE ABOUT 1948, AND I WOULD SAY THERE 14 IS VERY LITTLE OUESTION ABOUT T0XICITY, BUT I 15 THINK SOME OF THE PEOPLE WORKING IN REGULATIONS 16 TRYING TC TAKE A VERY, VERY CAUTIOUS APPROACH AND 17 DUST AUTOMATICALLY STUCK THAT IN THERE.
16 Q. WELL, DRUGS ON THE MARKET AREN'T ALWAYS 19 PRO \ED SAFE, ARE THEY?
20 A. WELL, SINCE 1946, IT'S A LONG TIME.
21 Q. WELL, WHEN YOU STATE THAT THE RESINS THAT I 22 ARE EMPLOYED IH THE DEMER --
DEMIN --
IN THE l 1
23 SYSTEM. j t
f ')
24 A. thAT TYPE SYSTEM? l l
25 Q. IN THE --
I ' ti GOING TO TRY THAT AGAIN --
! )
I l
365 1 DEMINERALIZER -- ARE BOTH INERT AND NONTOXIC; IS
)
--/ 2 THAT WHAT YOU STATE?
~
3 A. YES. YESr THEY ARE.
4 Q. WELL, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THEN BEING 5 NONTOXIC- OHLY BEFORE THEY'VE ATTRACTED THE 6 IMPURITIES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
7 A. WELL, YES, IF YOU WERE TREATING A CHROMIC 6 ACID PLATING SOLUTION WITH THOSE RESINS, THEY 9 DEFINITELY WOULD BE TOXIC.
10 (. ALL RIGHT. EUT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THEM 11 BEFORE THEY COLLECT THEIR IMPURITIES?
12 A. YES. I THINK IN YOUR DISCUSSION THAT YOU
'u -
) 13 HAVE TO SAY EXACTLY WHICH IMPURITIES BECAUSE WE 14 CAN REALLY BRING IT DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, THE IS TOXICITY OF THE PARTICULAR MATERIAL YOU'RE TALKING 16 ABOUT. ,
17 Q. EUT YOUR STATEMENT RELATING TO THEM BEING 18 NONTOXIC WAS IN AIR PURE FORM?
15 , . -l E L L ,
IN THE AMNONIUM f- C R M , YOU K b. O W ,
20 THEY'RE NONTOXIC. I HAVE THAT DATA HERE, TOO.
21 Q. OKAY. YOU STATED, TOO, THAT THE WASTE 22 FROH THE SETTLING PONDS WOULD BE SOLIDIFIED BY 23 WHAT YOU CALL CEMENT KILN DUST?
, "'3 24 A. YES.
I w,!
25 Q. AND WHAT'S THE CHEMISTRY OF THIS KILN
if S
. 366 L .
- 1. DOST? '
M
, (d J.
2 .A. THAT*S-BASICALLY CALCIUM OXIDE, LAND IN i
T'H E FIELD THERE IS A G R E A T: D E~A L' OF WORK.THAT'Sx 3
4 BEEN DONE FOR QUITE SOME TIME ON S O L' I D I F Y I N G ~ :W A S T E '
'5 WIT'H CEMENT OR CEMENT DUST.
j 6 Q. WELL, ARE YOU AWARE 1 0 F. TESTS THATfMAVE.
4 7 B~E E N DONE TO SEE' IF IT REACTS WITH THIS PARTICULAR >
8 UASTE?
9 MR. SILBERG:. I'M SORRY. COULDj l
} 10 UE HAVE --
WHAT IS --
I 1.1 MS. SIGLER: THE' WASTE::THAT'S- ,
12 GOING TO BE BURIED AT THE SITE.
13 MR. SILBERG: 'YOU'RE' TALKING
^
14 j ABOUT THE REACTION BETWEEN CEMENT KILN DUST _AND' ]
i 15 THIS WASTE? ,
4 - ,
! 16 MS. SIGLER: RIGHT.
I- 17 MR. 5ILBERG: T H A'N K 'Y O U . _
i ,
18
~ '
BY MS. SIGLER:
f
- IS Q. ARE YOU AWAREs OF ANY TESTS?'
i l 20 A. I HAVE SEEN OTHER: PEOPLE C AR R Y: OUT I' . .
' ~
21 SOLIDIFICATION WORK WITH. CEMENT. NOW, '
'I- {H A VE 'N O T .
22 SEEN ANY. THING DONE HERE EXCEPT SOME? TESTS THAT' s
23 WERE CARRIED OUTcWITHIN T H E- LAST DAY'OR TWO. BUT 24
!C l
25 SINCE :I T-IS CALCIUM OXIDE, I ~ WOULD..THINK I T;-W O UL D ~
RELATE-QUI-TE WELL TO'THE.OTHER ;W OR K T_H AT1 H A S. -B E E N.
l i
~
l ,
7-
_ .. 2 . .s-
367 1 DONE.
2 Q. BUT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANY SPECIFIC TESTS?
3 A. JUST SMALL TESTS THAT WERE CARRIED OUT 4 WHILE I WAS HERE DURING THE PAST TWO OR THREE 5 DAYS.
6 Q. WHAT TESTS ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
7 A. THOSE WHICH WERE CARRIED OUT IN A GLASS 6 BEAKER BASICALLY DEMONSTRATING THE SOLIDIFICATION 9 WITH THE CEMENT DUST AND THE SLUDGE.
10 Q. WhO CARRIED THESE OUT?
11 A. WELL, THESE WERE CARRIED OUT --
12 DR. BENNETT CARRIED THESE OUT.
?
13 Q. CAN YOU TELL NE WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS 14 BETWEEN CEhENT AND CEMENT KILN DUST?
15 A. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT'S A MATTER OF 16 PARTICLE SIZE. THE CEMENT DUST IS A SMALLER 17 PARTICLE SIZE THAN WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER AS 18 STANDARD CEMENT.
15 G. IS IT PERMEABLE, THE KILN DUST?
20 A. ONCE IT SETS, IT WILL BE NO MORE 21 PERMEABLE THAN THE REGULAR CEMENT.
22 Q. WILL IT --
HOW MUCH WILL IT INCREASE THE 23 VOLUME OF THE WASTE?
']
~
24 A. THAT I CAN'T A i! S W E R . I REALLY DON'T 25 KNOW.
368 1 C. DOES IT REACT IF IT SITS IN WATER? DO 2 YOU ANOW THAT?
3 A. NO. I AM QUITE CERTAIN EPPERT (PHONETIC) 4 HAS CARRIED OUT STUDIES ON THE LEACHABILITY OF 1
5 WASTE THAT HAS BEEN SOLIDIFIED WITH CEMENT, AND 6 THEY DO MEET THEIR REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS 7 LEACHABILITY.
S Q. IS THIS THE SAME CENENT KILN DUST THAT'S 9 USED BY THE CHEMICAL WASTE MANAGEMENT SITE, THE 10 OHIO LIQUID DISPOSAL 7 DO YOU KNOW THAT?
11 A. I DO NOT KNOW THAT, NO.
12 HS. SIGLER: I DON'T HAVE ANY
,/m.
! ) 13 MORE QUESTIONS.
14 Mk. LODGE: I HAVE SEVERAL.
15 JUDGE H0YT: VERY WELL.
16 PROCEED, MR. LODGE.
li MR. LODGE: THANK YOU.
10 - - -
19 CROSS-EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. LODGE:
21 Q. DOCTOR, YOU NADE REFERENCE ON PAGE 102 0F 22 THE TESTIN0NY TC QUESTRAN?
23 A. YES.
/ ~'; 24 Q. DID YOU CON 5 ULT THE 1966 P_ b y.S I.C J A M E _ Q E S K
~~
25 BEEERENCE IN MAKING YOUR STATEMENTS?
369
,~
1 A. I HAVE THE U.S. PHARMACOPEIAr ALSO THE
')
-- 2 INFORMATION SHEET FROM MEAD JOHNSON ON CUESTRAN IF 3 YOU'D LIKE TO LOOK AT IT.
4 Q. I'D LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT THE 1966 P.D.R.
5 AND I'M TOLD THAT MY WITNESS HERE WOULD LIKE TO 6 SEE YOUR DOCUMENTS.
7 MR. LODGE: HOW SHALL WE MARK 8 THESE, YOUR HONOR?
9 JUDGE H0YT: UELL, COUNSEL, WHAT 10 DO YOU HAVE? .
11 MR. LODGE: VHAT I HAVE IS 12 ABOUT A THREE-PAGE EXCERPT FROM THE P.D.R.
,s (j 13 MR. SILBERG: DO YOU HAVE COPIES?
14 JUDGE liO Y T : DO YOU HAVE A COPY 15 FOR COUNSEL AND THEN THREE COPIES FOR THE RECORD?
16 MR. LODGE: PARDON ME?
17 JUDGE H0YT: DO YOU HAVE THREE 16 COFIES FOR THE RECORD?
19 MR. LODGE: I WILL HAVE THREE 20 COPIES.
21 JUDGE H0YT: Do YOU INTEND TO 22 INTRODUCE THIS OR ARE YOU GOING TO USE IT?
23 MR. LCDGE: I'M GOING TO USE
' ' 24 IT. ;
25 dUDGE H0YT: IF YOU DON'T INTEND
370 1 TO INTRODUCE THIS, THEN DO YOU HAVE A COPY FOR US D' 2 HERE?
3 liR . LODGE: YES.
4 JUDGE H0YT: THANK YOU. IF YOU 5 DON'T INTEND TO INTRODUCE IT --
6 11 R . LODGE: I DO INTEND TO 7 INTRODUCE IT.
8 JUDGE H0YT: I EEG YOUR PARDON.
S WELL, THEN, I'LL NEED THE THREE COPIES.
10 NR. LODGE: HOW SHALL WE MARK 11 IT, THOUGH?
12 JUDGE HOYT: IT'S YOUR EXHIBIT, (m) p 13 SIR. WHAT SYSTEM DO YOU WANT TO USE ON YOUR 14 NUMBERING?
15 MR. LODGE: HOW ABOUT --
I 16 THINK WE WILL CALL THIS S.O.S., SAVE OUR~ STATE --
17 JUDGE H0YT: SAVE OUR STATE --
16 MR. LODGE: --
EXHIBIT 1. IS 15 THERE ANY PROBLEM WITh MY USE OF 17 20 JUDGE H0YT: NO, AS LONG AS WE 21 HAVE THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE ORGANIZATION.
22 - - -
23 THEREUPON, S.O.S. EXHIBIT NO. 1 WAS
,e'-] 24 MARKED FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION.
1 w/
25 - - -
371 1 MR. LODGE: ALL RIGHT. AND I i ) 1
' ~/ 2 DO HAVE THE ORIGINAL PHYSICIANS' DESK REFERENCE 3 HERE FOR REVIEU IF YOU NEED IT, MR. SILBERG.
4 JUDGE H0YT: THIS IS TAKEN FROM 5 THE Eb1ELEl A U S I_D_EEK_8 EEE E EMEE . I i
6 MR. LODGE: YES, 1986.
7 JUDGE H0YT: ALL RIGHT.
6 EY MR. LODGE:
9 C, . SIR, I SHOW YOU bHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS 10 S.O.S. EXHIBIT 1.
11 JUDGE H0YT: MR. LODGE, YOU'RE 12 GOING TO HAVE TO TURN SO THAT THE REPORTER CAN
,/m I
) 13 HEAR YOU AS YOU QUESTION THE WITNESS.
14 MR. LODGE: ALL RIGHT.
15 JUDGE H0YT: hR. LODGE, LET'S 16 CONTRIBUTE THIS COPY TO THE PROBLEM. I'D RATHER 17 COUNSEL HA\d A COPY AVAILABLE TO HIM. MR.
10 SILBERG, HERE IS'A COPY.
19 T+ Y MR. LODGE:
20 Q. MR. HETHERINGTON, YOU INDICATED THAT 21 C,UESTRAN IS A DRUG DESIGNE0 TO INHIBIT THE 22 FORMATION OF CHOLESTEROL?
23 A. YES.
'N 24 Q. IN THIS EXHIBIT I'M SHOWING YOU, IT
(~ /
25 INDICATES THAT GUESTRAN REEIN A D S O R B S. AND COMBINES
372 1 WITH THE BILE ACIDS IN THE INTESTINE. DO YOU SEE
'v 2 THAT REFERENCE?
3 A. YES, I DO.
4 Q. IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT THE PREVENTION 5 0F FORMATION OF CHOLESTEROL?
6 A. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE WAY IT 7 PREVENTS THE FORMATION, IT ACTUALLY REMOVES THE G BILE ACIDS THAT ARE NECESSARY FOR THE FORMATION OF 9 CHOLESTEROL.
10 C. IN THE MANUFACTURER'S LITERATURE THAT ll YOU'VE SHOWN ME, IT ALSO INDICATES, DOES IT N0i, 12 THAT, AND I QUOTE, " CHOLESTEROL IS PROSAELY THE g
(
1 13 SOLE PRECURSOR OF EILE ACIDS." ISN'T THAT 14 CONSISTENT WITH THE P.D.R. DISCUSSION 7 15 A. OFFHAND IT SEEMS TO BE. I WILL ASK --
16 REALLY, I THOUGHT THE PURPOSE REALLY WAS --
FIRST 17 0F ALL, LET ME SAY, I'M NOT A DOCTOR OF MEDICINE.
16 I THOUGHT THE WHOLE PURPOSE WAS THE 19 TOXICITY OF THE RESIN, IF ANY, AND THE FACT THAT 20 IT HAS BEEN APPROVED AND HAS BEEN SOLD AND 21 T0XICITY S T 'J D I E S HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT, THAT THIS 22 ESTABLISHE3 THE POINT THAT IT WAS NONT0XI',.
23 Q. OKAY. N O li , YOU CORRECTED YOUR TESTIMONY
,/ 's, 24 50 FAR AS DOSAGE WAS CONCERNED, CORRECT, TO 54
',/
25 GRAMS --
373 1 A. RIGHT, UH-HUH.
'/ 2 Q. -- PER DAY?
3 DO YOU FIND A SECTION IN THE EXHIBIT I'M 4 SHOUING YOU THAT IS ENTITLED " CARCINOGENESIS, 5 MUTAGENESIS AND IMPAIRMENT OF FERTILITY."?
6 JUDGE H0YT: I'D LIKE THE RECORD 7 TO REFLECT, MR. LODGE, THAT THE EXHIBIT THAT S YOU'RE SHOWING HIM IS 5.0.S. 1.
5 MR. LODGE: YES, THE S.O.S. 1, 10 CORRECT.
11 Q. DO YOU FIND THAT SECTION, SIR?
12 A. DCWN HERE, YES.
n
(,I 13 C; . LOULD YOU TAKE A it0 MENT TO READ THAT 14 SECTION?
15 HAVE YOU HAD AN GPPORTUNITY?
16 A. I JUST GLANCED OVER IT, YES.
17 Q. DON'T YOU FIND IN THERE THAT THE P.D.R.
18 INDICATION IS THAT IN THE DEVELOPMENT THAT --
THAT IS RATS HAVE DEVELOPED INTESTINAL T Ult 0 R S F R 0tt DOSAGES 20 0F QUESTRAN; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
21 A. YES, IT II.D I C A T E S --
YEAH, IT DOES SAY 22 THERE HAS BEEN 5 0 t1E REPORTED CASES.
23 Q. OF CANCERS; CORRECT?
24 A. OF T U tiO R S IN RATS, YES.
)
25 Q. AND 6ASED UPON THAT INFORMATION, DO YOU
374 1 STILL ADHERE TO YOUR CONCLUSION THAT THE RESIN IS, i~
2 THEREFORE, NOT ONLY INERT BUT ALSO NONT0XIC7 3 A. YES. FROM THE INFORMATION I COLLECTED 4 THROUGH THE YEARS, I WOULD SAY, YES, IT IS USED IN 5 MANY OTHER PREPARATIONS THAT ARE ON THE MARKET AND 6 HAVE BEEN ON THE MARKET FOR A LONG TIME. THERE 7 ARE t.LSO COUGH MEDICINES WHICH USE THE RESIN AS A.
6 TIME RELEASE CARRIER THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A 2
9 GOOD NANY YEARS.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT. ALSO IN THE SAME EXHIBIT, 11 S.O.S. NUMBER 1, IN THAT COLUMN, WOULD YOU TAKE A 12 NOMENT THERE? THERE'S REFERENCE THERE TO A (7,) 13 SEVEN-YEAR STUDY.
14 A. RIGHT DOWN HERE?
15 Q. DOCTOR, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TC. REVIEW 16 ONE LAST PORTION OF THAT DEFINITION OR THAT 17 DISCUSSIONr THAT BEING (INDICATING).
16 (PAUSE.)
15 C. . DOCTOR, DO YOU FIND IN THAT PHYSICIANS' 20 DESK REFERENCE E X H I f. I T THAT THERE IS A STUDY CITED 21 ALSO THAT INDICATES THAT THERE WAS A HIGHER THAN 22 USUAL INCIDENCE FROA QUESTRA' PRESCRIBED PATIENTS 1
23 OF ALIMENTARY CANCERS?
^') 24 A. IT DOES INDICATE THERE WERE SOME 25 REPORTED, YEAH. l
~
"*375
- l .Q. -
50.I REPEAT MY QUESTION: DO YOU S T I L.L
.r -
k ? 2
~
STAND BY: YOUR'~ STATEMENT.THAT-QUESTRAN AS A RESIN 3 :I S NONT0XIC?
4 A. IT'S STILL ON THE: MARKET AND IT'S BEEN O N-5 THE MARKET FOR TdN-YEARS, AND I'M CERTAINLYLNOT-IN 6 THE'POS'ITION.TO SAY THAT IT'S --
ACTUALLY THERE'S 7 ANOTHER. NOTE H E R E .W;.I C H SAYS --
THE- NUMBERS-ARE'SO ' '
8 ~SMALL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO DRAW ANY. CONCLUSION FROM i
9 THAT STUDY, 50 --
10 hR.; LODGE: YOUR HONOR, MAY I _ ,
11 JUST HAVE A MOMENT, PLEASE?. ,
12 JUDGE HOYT: YES.
() 13 MR. VAN KLEY: YOUR HONOR, IF WE 14 ARE AT A LITTLE BREAK-HERE WHILE WE'RE WAITING FOR '
15 .SOME MORE Q U E S T I 'O N 'S , ONE'0F THE EXHIBITS THAT-YOU 16 ASKED US TO BRING IN' YESTERDAY,.WE HAVE,'IF YOU
- i ;
17 DUST WANT TO LOOK AT THOSE WHILE WE-HA,VE THIS 18 PAUSE.
N f
19- JUDGE H0YT: IS THAT THE' LETTER l' 20 FROM THE N.R.C.?
i 21 MR. VAN KLEY: FROM N.R.C.
- 22 JUDGE H0YT
- YES,'WE.WOULD L'I K E -
23 F'O R YOU.TO DISTRIBUTE THAT. AS SOON AS MR.. LODGE 24 IS FINISHED WITH HIS LINE OF- QUESTIONING, WE WILL
~
25 . RECESS FOR LONCH. I'LL1GO OFFDTHE RECORD ~JUST ONE~
i o 7,n, , wv. , -.. , .a ,iy,, -~.ry-- - - - - - 3, ,-+g , ,
. , , - - , , , .,.t-y -e r .-w-
376 1 MOMENT HERE.
2 (OFF THE RECORD.)
3 JUDGE HOYT: UE'LL GO BACK ON 4 THE RECORD.
5 BY NR. LODGE:
6 Q. DOCTOR, WITH REFERENCE TO YOUR TESTIMONY 7 ON PAGE 103, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT 8 THAT R E G El'E R AT I O N OF RESIh5 CAN OCCUR UITH LOWER 9 COMCENTRATIONS OF IONS IN GROUNDWATER OVER A 10 LONGER TIME PERIOD THAN WHAT YOU INDICATE?
11 A. WITH A LOWER CGNCENTRATION?
12 Q. YES.
,/~\
! 13 A. DEPENDS TO WHAT DEGREE OF REGENERATION 14 YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. AND, OF COURSE, IF IT IS 15 SETTING IN WATER, STILL WATER, YOU'RE GOING TO 16 HAVE AN EQUILIBRIUM SITUATION, AND THE DEGREE OF 17 CONVERSION OR ELUSICfl UILL BE GREATLY REDUCED.
18 Q. EUT IT WILL STILL OCCUR, ISN'T THAT 15 CORRECT? IS ThAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
20 A. PROBABLY A VERY MINIMAL EXTENT IF THE i 21 CONCENTRATION OF IONS GUTSIDE THE RESIN IS LOW.
I 22 ALCO, THAT'S ASSUMING THAT THE RESIN IS CLEAN, THE l
23 RESIN PARTICLE, IT'S NOT ENCRUSTED IN ANY WAY.
I
'^') 24 Q. NOW, YOUR TOMATO PATCH EXAMPLE.
25 A. YES.
377 1 Q. WAS YOUR PURPOSE IN APPLYING RESINS --
' ~/ 2 ANONG OTHER THINGS, I'M SURE IT '.! A S TO LOOSEN THE 3 SOIL AND THINGS LIKE ThAT; IS THAT CORRECT?
4 A. NO, NOT REALLY.
5 Q. WHAT WAS IT?
6 A. THERE'S MANY FAPERS WRITTEN BY THE 7 JAPANESE BACK IN THE '40'S, EARLY '50'S, IN WHICH 8 THEY WERE LOOKING AT ION-EXCHANGE RESINS AS A 9 SYNTHETIC SOIL, AND IT WAS INTERESTING. I HAD 10 ACCESS TO RESIN, AND I PUT IN A TOMATO PATCH, AND 11 JUST TO SEE WHAT EFFECT IT MIGHT HAVE REALLY.
12 Q. DIC YOU USE IT OR AT LEAST EXANINE IT IN y-~3
(
w./
) 13 LIGHT OF THE RESIN'S ABILITY TO POSSIBLY INHIBIT 14 BURN FR0h FERTILIZER?
15 A. NO, I REALLY DIDN'T. I PUT IT IN THE 16 GROUNDr AND REALLY, TO BE VERY HONEST, I WATCHED 17 IT FOR A YEAR OR 50 AND JUST KIND OF FORGOT ABOUT 16 IT. EvT EVERY YEAR WHEN I DIG THE GROUND UP, I 19 NOIICE THE RESIN PARTICLES ARE THERE, THE SEADS, 20 AND I'VE PICKED THESE UP AND EXAMINEC THEM, AND I 21 COULC SEE NO SIGN OF THE RESIN DEGRADING.
22 Q. COULDN'T YOU ENCOUNTER A 5ITUATION WHERE 23 THE PRESENCE GF FERTILIZER OR OTHER NATURALLY
, O, 24 OCCURRING MINERALS THAT ARE TO BE FOUND IN (v !
25 FERTILIZER COULD ACTUALLY SUBSTITUTE THEMSELVES, I P
378 1 GUESS, 10NICALLY FOR RADIATION?
2 A. SUBSTITUTE THENSELVES --
3 Q. FOR RADIOACTIVE PARTICLES THAT MIGHT BE 4 60NDED TO THE --
5 A. YOU MEAN RADICACTIVE IONS?
6 Q. YES.
7 A. BASICALLY OR --
ALL RIGHT. IF THE RESIN 6 PARTICLE IS, AND I EMPHASIZE, AGAIN, CLEAN, S BECAUSE IF THERE'S PRECIPITATION ON THE SURFACE OF 10 THE PARTICLE, IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO INHIBIT THE 11 DIFFUSION OF IONS INTO THE EXCHANGE SITES, BUT IF 12 IT IS CLEANr THERE IS A SUFFICIENT CONCENTRATION
,3 (y 13 ON THE OUTSIDE, YES, THERE COULD BE SONE EXCHANGE.
14 MR. LODGE: UE HAVE NOTHING 15 FURTHER.
16 dUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. WE'LL 17 RECESS NOW FOR LUNCH, AND EVERYONE WILL RETURN FOR 16 THE AFTERNGON SESSION AT 1:30.
19 (LUNCH RECESS.)
20 - - -
1 21 2
22 6 EI E B. U QR N S E S S 19 U 23 - - -
g; 24 JUDGE H0YT: THE HEARING LILL
(-
25 C 0 fiE TO ORDER. ALL THE PARTIES TO THE HEARING UNO
379 1
)
1 UERE PRESENT UHEN THE HEARING ADJOURNED AT ThF l 2 LUNCH RECESS ARE AGAlf4 PRESENT.
3 GENTLEMEN, I UILL REMIND YOU, AGAIN, THAT 4 YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH, AND I BELIEVE YOU HA\E l 5 ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION YOU UANTED TO ASK, 50 <
l 6 LET'S PROCEED.
\
7 MR. LODOE: YES THERE'S ONE 8 HOUSEKEEPING MATTER THAT I UOULD LIKE TO 9 SUESTITUTE AN U N /s D U L T E R A T E D COPY OF THE 10 PHYSICIANS' DESK REFERENCE EXHIBIT A5 5.0.S.
11 EXHIEIT 3.
12 JUDGE h0YT: YES, I THINK THAT'S i 13 A GOOD SUGGESTION. THERE WAS SOME UNDERLYING 14 ERRORS ON THAT ONE, A!J L WE WOULD LIKE TO GET CLEAM 15 COPIES. ,
I i
l ti NR. LODGE: I WILL BE GIVING l 17 THAT TO THE COURT REPORTER. I \l 0 U L D LIKE TO ASK lb THE PANEL GENER/LLY ONE QUESTION /sN D THEN DIRECT IS QUESTIONS TO MR. HENDRON. l l
20 - - - I I
21 BY MR. LODGE: l l
22 in Y GENERAL C'UESTION: IS THERE GOING TO I 23 BE CALCIUM OR CALCIUtl IONS PRESENT IN THE CEMENT 24 KILN DUST, DOES ANYBODY KNOW?
O 25 A. (MR. HENDRON) THE ANSUER IS YES l
l l
l l
L_ . _ .
380 1 Q. f tR . HENDRON, BASED UPON YOUR TESTIMONY, 2 DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT CALCIUM I O!! S LOULD BE 3 PRESENT IN OR UITH THE RESINS?
4 A. YES, IN A LOW CONCENTRATION.
5 Q. WILL THE RESERVE CAPACITY OF THE RESINS 6 BE SATURATED BY CALCIUM IONS OR B E C 0f1E SATURATED?
7 A. LET'S LOOK FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT IF e THE RESIN, AS I SAIC EARLIER, IS ENCRUSTED, WHICH 9 OFTEN HAPPENS BECAUSE ON, SAY, A POLISHING 10 PRCVISION, YOU PICK UP A T R E M E f; D O U S AMOUNT OF IRON 11 ON THE RESIN, AND WHEN THE I Ps 0 N GOES I f1 T O THE --
12 WITH THE SLUDGE, THE PH IS VERY hlGH AND YOU 13 PRECIPITAlE THE IRON AND THE MATRIX OF THE RESIN; 14 AND W h Eti THIS HAPPENS, THE RESIN GASICALLY IS 15 UNACLE TO ALLOU THE IONS TO DEFUSE THROUGH.
16 LHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE RESIN IS l '/ RELATIVELY I ll E R T . NOU THE RESIN IS CLEAN AND 16 ThERE IS NO INCRUSTATION ARGUND THERE.
19 YES, CALCIUM WILL DE PICKED UP ON 20 EXCHANGE GROUPS ON THE RESIN.
21 Q. IF THE RESIN IS HOLDIUG CESIUM-137, FOR 22 INSTANCE, ISN'T THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT Tli AT 23 WOULD BE DISPLACED BY THE CALCIUM 7 24 /.. IF THE PARTICLE IS CLEAN AND NOT 25 ENCRUSTED, THERE IS THAT POSSIBILITY. ALTHOUGH,
381 1 CESIUM IS HELD MORE TIGHTLY THAN POTASSIUM, i 2 SCDIUM, A t',ti O N I U M IONS.
I j 3 Q. BUT YOU DO A C K N 0 ll L E D G E THERE Vl I L L EE A l 4 POSSIBILITY THAT SONE OF THE RADI0 ACTIVE ELEMENTS
)
j 5 COULD EE LEACHEC OUT, ORr AT LEAST, N051LIZED bY f
f 6 THE PRESENCE OF C/iLCIUM IONS?
I, 7 A. IN A CLEAN RESIN PARTICLE, YES, f
i i
E Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA --
TAKING THE SLUDGE 9 C O N T E t. T INTO ACCOUNT --
DO YOU HA\E ANY IDEA WHAT i
10 PERCENTAGE OF THE RESINS WOULD BE CLEAN, IN YOUR i
11 D E F I N I T I O N 'i
} 12 A. I \40ULD THINK CONING FROM A CONDENSATE l ym
- 1 13 POLISHING, THAT VERY LITTLE IS CLEAN, BECAUSE THEY
- u.
14 r> I C K UP IRON A t; C O T l!E R t'.E T A L L I C OXIDES, A tJ C THESE 15 LILL PRECIPITATE AT THE HIGHER PH, AND THEY WILL l 16 ACTUALLY PRECIPITATE IN THE 16 ATRIX OF RESINS.
i i 17 Q. I GELIEVE, t< R . HENDRON, THERE WAS
! 18 REFERENCE HERE TODAY TO E N I ti E T O K . IS THAT IN THE IS blKINI ISLANDSi 20 A. NOT bY t, E . I BELIEVE THAT \i A S ttA D E BY 21 DR. JACKSON. DR. JACKSON --
21 Q. DOCTOR, ARE YOU A V! /' R E OF ANY USE OF 23 FERTILIZER RICH IN POTASSIUM TO DISPLACE THE
[ f~] 24 CESIUt; IN TiiE LIKINI ISLANDS?
{ s 25 A. (l;R . JACKSGN) THERE HAVE BEEN A N U I',b E R OF u-_. -- - -._.--_ ~ - - - - -._--- -._..- _ _
382 1 EXPERIMENTS CONDUCTED BOTH AT Ell I W E T O K AND BIKINI 2 ISLANDS RELATIVE TO T l; E REHABILITATION OF T ii E 3 CORRELATE SOILS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL DECADES.
l 4 NR. LODGE: NOTHING FURTHER.
S WE'LL MOVE INTO THE NEXT LINE OF QUESTIONING.
6 HR. SILBERG: IF UE MIGHTr 7 SECAUSE OF MR. HETHERINGTON'S SCHEDULE, I'M C UOfiDERING IF I MIGHT ASK A FEU LIMITED REDIRECT S QUESTIONS AT THIS TIMF SO UE VI O U L D BE ABLE TO LET i
10 HR. hEThERINGTON GO WHEN HE NEEDS TO.
I 11 JUDGE H0YT: AT THE END OF THE 12 DAY. ANY OEJECTION F R 0 fi THE INTERVENORS AS TO 13 THAT LINE OF PRESENTATION?
14 HR. VAN KLEY: NO, YOUR H Oi! C R .
15 - - -
16 REDIRECT EXtMINATION li BY MR. SILBERG:
l lb Q. MR. HEThERINGTON, YOU INDICATED IN 19 RESPONSE TO A QUESTION BY MS. SIGLER THAT, I
( 20 BELIEVE, THAT ROHM & HAAS, ONE OF THE 21 M A N U I- A C T U R E R S OF THE RESINS USED AT DAVIS-LESSE, l 22 UAS A KARNING ON ITS MANUFACTURER'S SAFETY I
I i 23 I N F O R M /iT I G!. --
24 A. (MR. h E T H E R I N G T0 f;) SAFETY DATA SHEET.
I 25 Q. --
S A l- b T Y DATA S Fi E E T ON INDUCING V O M I T i t;G i ,
l l 383 I
l 1 IN THE EVENT THAT THESE RESINS WERE ItGESTED. 1 1
0 2 FIRST OF ALL, ARE THERE OTHER MATEPIAL l 3 DATA SAFETY SHEETS FROM R O H t, & HAAS FOR SIMILAR 4 EESINS THAT CO NOT INCLUDE THAT UARNING?
5 A. YESr THERE IS. I HAVE COPIES OF THESE 1
6 HERE.
1 7 0. hAVE YOU TALKED TO R O H is & HAAS ABOUT WHY G THAT WARNING UAS INCLUDED ON ONE OF THEIR DATA 9 SHEETS?
lb A. YES, I SPOKE TO NR. BUTT (PHONETIC), NHC L
11 HEADS UP THERE PHARNACEUTICAL AND SPECIAL 12 APPLICATIONS GROUP, AND POINTED OUT THAT T H /, T 13 S T A T E tlE N T WAS ON THE SAFETY DATA SHEET, AND HE 14 COULDN'T UNDERSTAND UHY IT W/S THERE, EITHER. AND
- 15 HE'S CHECKING WITH THE REGULATIONS GROUP, WHICH IS 16 A GROUP THAT PREPARES THESE SAFETY DATA SHEETS. I 17 H A V E t! ' T GOTTEN A f; ANSWER BACK FROM HIM YET.
lt G. LUT YOUR Ut:DERSTANDING IS FROM THE 19 TECHNICAL PERSONNEL IH C H /s R G E OF P H A R M A C E U T I C /s L S ,
20 THAT THEY D I D l! ' T Ut:DERSTANC THAT THAT U A R t; I N G UAS 21 NEEDEU?
22 A. THAT PARTICULAR S T A T E M E l: T WAS IN THERE.
23 I /.L S O HAVE THE SHEETS FROM DOW CHEMICAL 4 24 COMPANY, LHICh IS EXACTLY THE SAME MATERIAL, A t, D !
j 25 AS A MATTER OF FACT, THESE 14 A T E R I A L S UERE MADE a
. - - , , - . . . . _ .-.._,-___--.-.._..,..-...-..---.....__,%,..._,...,c-.---.__..,..-.-. - - . - ..--, . - --,.~,--,--. . - - - - - .
l 384 3 1 UNDER THE SAME PATENTS, BASICALLY, AND THE DCW l l
2 SHEETS DO NOT INDICATE, OR GIVE ANY SUCh '
3 STATEMENT.
4 C: . YOU ALSO i:ENTIONED BRIEFLY THAT IN S ADDITION TO THE SMALL TEST THAT WAS RECENTLY 6 CONDUCTED ON SOLIDIFYING ThESE RESINS, THAT THERE 7 IS OTHER EXPERIMENTS IN THE INDUSTRY O ri 1
1 3 SOLIDIFYING RESINS WITh CEMENT OR CEiENT K I L f, l 9 DUST. COULD YOU COMMENT ON Th4T?
)
10 A. YES. ACTUALLY, MANY OF THE PLANTS DO I 11 SOLIDIFY AT HIGHER LEVEL RADI0 ACTIVE WASTE t- O R 12 SHIPhENT AND FOR CURIAL. I BELIEVE THE NRC HAS 13 REGULATIONS STATING UHEN SOLIDIFICATION NUST BE 14 CARRIED OUT.
1S Q. SO IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING T H /s T THAT 16 SOLIDIFICATION WITH CEMENT OR CEMENT KILM DOST IS l '/ A S T A t, D A R D INDUSTRY PRACTICE?
13 A. IT IS DONE C;U I T E OFTEN. I GUESS PRObAblY
\
l 19 ALMOST EVERY DAY IN THE FIELD AT OTHER PLANTS.
20 0. THERE UAS ALSO THE DISCUSSION O i! WHETHER 21 ELUSION OF THE RADICISOTOFES F R o ti ThE RESINS NIGHT 22 TAKE PLACE.
23 KILL THE SOLIDIFICATION OF THE RESINS IN 24 THE CEMENT KILN DUST HAVE A!J Y IMPACT ON THE l 25 CLEANNESS O f- THOSE kESINS AND WHETHER ELUSION i.
I___ - -_ . .- . - . . - - _ .__. . . - . . _ _ _ .- --
385 i
1 COULD OCCUR?
2 A. WHEN THE RESINS ARE SOLIDIFIED IN CEMENT, 1
3 ELUSION REALLY C t tJN O T TAKE PLACE. THEY ARE 4 I tui O B I L I Z E D , AND THIS IS ONE REASCN FOR l l
5 SOLIDIFICATIGN.
6 Q. SINILARLY, THERE hERE CUESTIONS WITH l l
7 REGARD TO THE PRESENCE, THE EFFECT THAT 8 FERTILIZER, IF IT WERE PRESENT, MIGHT HAVE?
S' A. UELL, ACTUALLY I THINK SPECIFIC M E N T I 0 t; 10 UAS NADE OF POTASSIUM. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE 11 SELECTIVITY COEFFICIENT, THE COEFFICIENTS FOR THE l
12 RESINS, ThE HIGHER THE NUMBERr THE GREATER THE 13 AFFINITY OF THE IRON FOR THE RESIN. AND CESIUM 14 HAS A SELECTIVITY COEFFICIENT OF 2.7, UHEREAS i
15 PCTASSIUM IS LOUER AT 2.5. 50 REALLY YOU UCULD 16 NOT EXFECT POTASSIUM TO DE VERY EFFECTIVE IN 17 D I S PL AC I t!G CESIUM.
1E Q. ThERE WAS ALSO A DISCUSSION GN THE EFFECT l
1S THAT CALCIUM IONS MIGHT HAVE FOR ELUSION TO TAKE j 20 PLACE.
1 21 IS IT NECCSS/RY THAT THE CALCIUM MAS TO l t
22 DE IN SOLUTION?
l 23 A. YESr IT IS. )
24 Q. OKAY. AND WOULD YOU --
( 25 A. ACTUALLY, THE RESINS KILL CNLY EXCHANGE l I l 1
l
i 386 1 l
( l IONS, AND IONS WILL REALLY ONLY TRULY EXIST, i
2 BASICALLY, AND SE ABLE TO CIFFUSE IN SOLUTION.
I l
I 3 O. WOULD YOU EXPECT C A L C I U f4 OR OTHER SIMILAR r
l I
1
- 4 MATERIAL TO GE IN SOLUTION IN THE WASTE EURIAL l l
l S CELLS?
l 6 A. I LOULC BELIEVE THAT TEE CON C El:T R AT I ON OF l
THERE WOULD bE SOME THERE, 7 CALCIUM WOULD BE LOU.
O LUT I GELIEVE IT WOULD BE OUITE LOh.
S tiR . SILBERG: I HAVE NO FURTHER 10 QUESTIONS.
4 11 JUDUE HOYT: VERY WELL. NOU, j
! 12 ARE YOU READY, COUNSEL, TO PICK UF?
I 13 MR. VAH KLEY: LE hAVE A FEh 14 (UESTIONS ON RECROSSe IE WE COULD ASK,
- 1 l
15 JUDGE MOYT: LIMITED O l: L Y TO j 16 THOSE MATTERS THAT WERE DISCLOSED ON REDIRECT.
17 MR. VAN KLE): RIGHT. )
i
)
10 - - - I l 1S RECRCSS-EXAMINATION EU LY ES. SIGLER:
l l
i l 21 (;. 5IRr COULD YOU PREDICT WhAT AFFECT THE l
)
l 22 RESINS WOULD hAVE IF THEY WERE INGESTED BY \lATER l
23 FALL, DO YOU HA\E ANY IDEA?
l 24 A. (MR. hETHERINGTON) P A R D 0 fi?
l 25 Q. IF THESE RESINS L E F, E INGESTED bY WATER l
l l
387
- 1 FALL?
2 MR. SILDERG: CLARIFICATION. ARE 3 WE TALKING ABOUT THE RESINS THEMSELVES AS OPPOSED 4 TO THE RADI0 ACTIVITY ON THE RESINS?
5 h5. SIGLER: BOTH.
d 6 ThE LIThESS: NO. ACTUALLY, I 7 REALLY DON'T. THE ONLY THING I CAN SAY IS I HAVE e UEEN HEADING CHEM ABSTRACTS EVERY TWO WEEKS. THEY i 9 PUT OUT AN EXCHANGE ON ION EXPERIENCE, AND I HAVE 4
10 f. E A D IT FOR YEARS, AND I H /1. V E f1 E V E R SEEN ANYTHING 11 TO SAY YES OR i! O AS TO WHAT THE EFFECT MIGHT BE.
)
- 12 BY MS. 5IGLEk-4 13 0. YOU ALSO M E i
- T I O N E D THAT SOLICIFICATION J
l< WITH CEMENT KILh DUST IS VERY COMMON IN THE i
15 IliD U S TR Y?
i 16 A. SGLIDIEICATICfi UITh CEMENT IS C O Mf4 G N .
17 O. NOT CEMENT K Ill: DUST?
16 A. ACTUALLY, IT IS DONE A tl D DESCRIBED IN THE IS LITERATURE AS CEMENT. THE KILN DUST, AS I I
20 UNDERSTAND, IS JUST A SMALLER PARTICLE SIZE OF j 21 CEMENT. THE COMPOSITIGN IS THE SAME.
22 0. DO YGU KNOW THE COMPOSITION OF THE KILN 23 DUST?
i 24 A. NC, I ThINK I WOULD hA\E TO DEFER.
25 0. THEN YOU DON'T K f! O W IF CEMENT AND i
- - . . ~ . . . , . ,, , , - , _ - . _,----,-, _ . .
.,,,,,.,.y, ,, ,__..._.,____,_.-.m._.,,.~v,_. , _ . . . , - , , _ , - , _ _ _ _ , , _ , . . ~ . . , _ _ - - - - , _ _ . _ , _ . . , . . . _
388 1 CEMENTIT1005 KILN DUST ARE IDENTICAL?
2 A. FRCh LHAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED, I BELIEVE i
3 THE DIFFERENCE IS IN PARTICLE SIZE.
4 Q. hHEN YOU'RE TALKING AECUT COMMON MIXING 5 UITH CEMENTITIOUS, THAT'S COMMON IN THE NUCLEAR 1 6 INDUSTRY?
7 A. YES, IT IS.
6 Q. YOU ARE NOT C O M h o ll IN SOLIDIFYING VlA T E R S TREATMENT -- I MEAN, TREATMENT SLUDGE?
10 A. NOT THAT I KNOU OF. IT IS DONE MOSTLY f
11 ti l T h RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS IN PART OF THE BURIAL le GROUNDS,AND CERTAINLY THEY CC SOLIDIFY.
13 Q. AND THESE NATERIALS ARE SHIPPED TO l! 14 L I C E l4 S E C BURIAL GROUNDS?
l 15 A. YES.
16 0. THESE ARE N0T 6URIED IN FLOODPLAlliS, ARE i l '/ THEY?
l .
1L A. N C 'l ThAT I KNOW OF.
1 l it G. \/ H E N YOU ARE TALKING ASOUT THE S O L U T I Cli ,
j 20 THE lilXING 0F hATERIAL5 WITH THE C E t;E N T I T I O U S , ARE 21 WE TALKitaG AboUT t101' SOLID IS THIS? HOW SOLID IS 22 THE RESULTING NATERIAL SUCSTANCE?
97 A. IT'S OUITE SOLID. I HAVE WATCHED THIS l
I' O 24 25 CARRIED OUT, AhD IT'S VERY HARD.
O. HERE AGAIM, UE'RE REFERRING TO CEMENT AND l
l
(
E.__ _ . _ _._ _ _._ _ - . _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ . _ _ ___ _ _ _
l 4 383
! 1 NOT CEMENT KILN DUST? !
l j 2 A. WELL, YES, THAT'S TRUE.
i 3 MS. SIGLER: I HAVE NO FURTHER I
4 OUESTIONS. THAN;; YOU.
! 5 dUDGE H0YT: VERY HELL. ARE YOU 6 READY WITH YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATIGN OF THE DIRECT f 7 TESTIMONY THAT UAS GIVEH YESTERDAY, AND WILL YOU l
l 6 TELL US WhICH () U E S T I O N YOU ARE G O l l1 G TO START i
9 WITH?
j 10 NR. VAN KLEY: WE F I ts I S H E D WITH I
j 11 C,U E S T I O N 6 ON THE NATURAL ORDER OF T H I t'G S . UE 12 cl A V E UC (UESTIONS ON CUEST10tl 7 EECAUSE IT IS 13 PRETTY ti U C H RELATED TO 6. 50 WE UAVE FINISHED ALL 14 THE (UESTIONS OF 6 AND 7 FOR THE STATE.
i
{
lE MR. LODGE: WE ARE IN AGREEMENT
- , 16 blTH THAT ILTERPRETATION.
17 JUDGE HOYT: YOU HAVE NONE, li 10 EITHEir AND NO OTHER I N T E R V E t4 0 R . VERY WELL.
15 MR. VAN KLEY: 50 WE WILL MOVE TO 4
20 CUESTION L, A I; b ThE CROSS-EX/MINATION UILL EE OF 2.1 PR. hENDRCNr AGAIN.
22 NR. SILDERC: EXCUSE ME. COULD 23 WE HAVE A SHORT DISCUSSION --
IT CAN DE OFF THE 24 RECORD --
ON SCHEDULES.
25 JUDGE H0YT: VERY WELL. I THINK
f I
l 3so I
y 1 WE SHOULD GO OFF THE RECORD ON THAT ONE.
l x - - -
f 3 (RECESS TAKEN)
( < - - -
I J 5 dUDGE HOYT: DURItG THE l
6 OFF-THE-RECORD TIME THAT THIS HEARING HAS BEEN I l!
l 7 RECESS, THERE MAS BEEN A CONFERENCE A M G t! G THE D COUNSEL FOR ALL OF THE --
ALL REPRESENT /sTIVES -
! il THE PARTIES HERE AND THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, AND 1
10 ThERE HAS LEEN AN AGREEMENT At40t4G THESE l 11 REPRESENTATIVES AND COUNSEL OF THE ORDER OF THE l
l 12 WITNESSES THAT WILL LE PRESENTED FOR THE REST OF ,
1 l
0 13 THe o^v. 1" "Or suae w " i c " o r2 e 1"^r 'e^ves us l 14 UITh LEACING OFF TJ O U .
15 MR. V A ll KLEY: IT WOULD EE f
f 16 C. U E S 1 10 t! L, MR. hENDRON.
I 17 JUDGE HOYT: ALL RIGHT. VERY f
f 16 WELL.
1 15 - - -
(
20 C R O S S - E X A tl It: A T I O N ,
l 21 BY NR. V Af4 KLEY:
22 Q. MR. HENDRON, IF YGU UOULD GO TO YOUR l
23 TESTIMONY UNDER QUESTION 8, I WANT TO ASK YOU A 24 FEW (UESTIOt;S ABOUT THAT. QUESTION 0 C O t4 C E R N S THE l 25 GROUtlDWATER TAELE.
I 3Si i i
l 1 NOW, OF COURSE YOU ARE AWARE THAT
@ 2 ESSENTIALLY ALL EARTH OR NATLRIALS HA\E PORES OR l 3 SPACES IN T H E ti; IS THAT RIGHT?
l 4 A. ( 14 R . HENDRON) THAT'S CORRECT. i l
S n. AND IT IS THESE PORES AND SPACES ThAT CAN 1 1
6 bE FILLED WITH WATER, IS THAT RIGHT? I I
7 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
6 Q. bHEN ALL THESE PORES --
IF YOU HAVE A 9 LOCATIOf1 IN THE SOIL WHERE ALL THE PORES ARE 10 FILLED UITH WATER, THAT IS K t: O W l; /S 6EING 11 SATURATED; IS THAT CORRECT?
12 A. ThAT'S C0RRECT. THE SPECIFIC DEFINITION 13 0F SATURATION IS UHEN THE VOLUME OF WATER IS E (: U A L 14 TO THE VO L U t.E OF VOID SPACES IN THE SOIL f4 A S S .
15 Q. ALL RIGHT. SO THE D E F I N I T I C t! 0F l t, dAIUKAlION, AS YOU HAVE DEEN USING IT IN THIS 17 TESTIN0hY, REFERS TO SOIL IM UHICH THE PORES ARE lb 100 PERCENT FULL GF WATER?
1S A. THAT'S THE DEFINITICN OF THE TERM l
1 20 SATURATED, CORRECT.
21 Q. ALL RIGHT. THE T E R f; " WATER TAELE" IN 1
l 22 ITSELF IS NOT A T E R ti THAT'S APPLICAGLE TO C ON F IllE D )
l 23 AQUIFERS, IS IT? .
24 A. NO, IT ISh'T.
l 25 Q. IT'S APPLICACLE TO U N C 0 tlF I N E D AOUIFERS?
I r
I 3S2 1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
l 2 (. WCULD YOU AGREE WITH NE THAT THE WATER i
3 TABLE IN THE SOIL , FLUCTUATES WITH THE WETNESS OF
] 4 THE SCIL?
] 5 /s . GENERICALLY SPEAKING, YES, I WC'ULD AGREE i
i 6 WITH THAT. i I,
i Q. AND THIS WETNESS CAli LE CAUSED LY
, O PRECIPITATION AND FLOODING; IS THAT CORRECT?
I 9 A. IT COULD BE, YES. l i
j 10 Q. ARE YOU TESTIFYING THAT THE SOIL AT THE i
11 BURIAL SITE IS NOT 5ATURATED?
12 A. AS I INDICATED IN MY TESTIMONY, 13 CALCULATIOl;S OF DEGREE OF SATURATIOt;, LASEL ON THE 1
14 It4 F O R M A T I O il THAT WE GOT FROM THE SITE, WOULD i 15 INDICATE THAT THE UPPER GLACI0 LACUSTRINE A ll D TILL '
1 l
4 16 DEPOSIT OR PARTIALLY SATURATED.
i 1
17 0 PARTIALLY SATURATED AS TO COfiPLETELY l :
l lb SATURATED? '
i l
[ 19 A. T M /s T ' S CORRECT. j 2U Q. CERTAlf:LY IT IS flO T YOUR T E S T I MOf4 Y , IS l 21 IT, THAT THE SOIL AT THE BURIAL SITE IS NEVER j l l 22 SATURATED?
1 l 23 A. WELL, I THINK THE SOIL AT THE BURIAL SITL 1
1
! 24 IN THE UPPER FEW INCHES TO FOOT OR SO CERTAINLY IS 25 SATURATED D U F,I I; G THE SPRING W H E li UE GET RAINFALL
)
! I i
0 353 1 IN THE AREA. AND THAT'S CCtSISTENT WITH THE SOIL l
2 C 0 t; S E R V A T I O N SERVICE DEFINITIOi! 0F THE ZONE OF 3 SATURATION IN THIS Soll.
4 C. YOU LEFERRED TO S o t '. E CALCULATIONS. A t1 D I 5 DELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED AGOUT THOSE CALCULATIONS AND 6 THE TESTIN0NY AS CONTAINED ON PAGE 52.
7 WOULD YOU TELL NE WHAT THOSE CALCULATIONS O ARE?
i S A. t. E L L , 1 DIC A SET OF CALCUL/TIONS WHERE I 10 DETERMINED THE D E C !. E E OF SATURATION OF THE 11 UNDISTRUEED TULE SANPLES THAT WERE TAKEN IN THE 12 BOREh0LES BY BOWSER-BORNER.
13 lHESE CALCULATIONS ARE b. A D E USING 14 BASICALLY THREE PARANETERS THAT WERE AVAILABLE IL F.Ch ThE DATA. ONE PARAMETER IS THE WATER l 16 C O N T El, T . ANOTHER PARAMETER IS THE DRY DENSITY OF 1
l '
t 17 50ll. A i. D lHE OTHER PARAMETER THAT ilE MEASURED l
( 16 UAS THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY OF THE SOLIDS OF THE IS SCIL.
'l
! 20 0. ALL klGHT. 50 THESE ARE THE SAME FIVE I'
21 L U R I t'G S THAL UE WERE D I S C U S S I t)G DURING YOUR 22 TESTIMONY U t L. E R (: U E S T I O N 6; IS THAT RIGHT? '
l 23 A. Tii A T ' S CORRECT.
)
- 1. 4 ThESE ARE SOILS THESE ARE SAhPLES OF O
i -
2s SUIL ThAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE GROUND TO THE '
l I
)
354 i '
t 1 LA60RATORY?
2 A. THAT'S RIGHT.
l l 3 Q. UhAT KIUD 0F SOIL IS IT THAY'S ON THE i
4 BURIAL SITE --
CAN YOU GIVE ME A CLASSIFICATION?
5 A. UELL, THE T Vl 0 50IL DEPOSITS TO THE SITE ,
6 T ri A T I HAVE INCICATED IN ThE TESTIMONY, THE UPPER
'/ NOST IS THE GLACI0 LACUSTRINE SOILS /. N D THE LOWER
. U UNIT IS GLACIAL TILL.
l 9 Q. WhAT I'M REFERRING TO IS A t'O R E SPECIFIC .
10 f l A t '. E , FOR EXANPLE, TOLEDO SILKY CLAY IS A TYPE OF 11 T E R t'. Th/T IS CFTEN USEC?
12 A. EXCUSE ME. THAT COMES OUT OF THE SOIL 13 CONSERVATIOf; SURrICIAL S G I. L MAPPING OF THE AREA,
, 14 AND THE PRIMARY S0ll IN THE BURIAL SITE IS THE 15 TCLEDO SERIES SOILS.
16 ( . AND THAT TYPE OF SOIL IS li E L L -K N O W N AS A 17 Soll TliA T IS SATURATED AT CERTAIN SEASONS OF THE 10 'i E A R , IS Til A T CORRECT?
15 A. UELL, I T H I N 1: IF YOU LOOK IN THE, AGAIN, 20 SOIL C ON S E n V A T I 0f! SERVICE M A t: U /s L , IT ICENTIFIES l
21 IHAT THE S E A S O f: A L li ! G H WATER TABLE IS AT OR NEAR 22 THE GROUND SURFACE, /' N D IT'S CALLEC A PERCHED 23 bATER TAELE, \hICh WCULL INDICATE THAT IT WCULD BE
- 24. VERY SEASGNAL.
i 25 (, S0 lie TIMES OF ThE YEAR ARE ObVIOUSLY NORE
---,.,----.-,----,-,.-.---..e,
355 1 UET THAN O Tii E R S ?
2 A. TMtT*5 CORRECT. l l
3 C. IT'S THE WET PERIODS OF THE YEAR D U R I t!G ,
1 4 U H I C li YOU WILL HA\E THE GPEATER S/TURATION AT THE l
5 SITE?
6 A. OF THE SURFACE SOILS OF THE SITE, YES.
l 7 0. LERE THERE A i! Y --
DO YOU KNOU UHAT A l
0 TENSIONETER IS? i S A. YES.
10 (, LERE /hY T E i! S I O lie T E R S INSTALLED IN TEST S
11 hCLES AT THE SITE TO D E T E Rill h E THE,GROUNDUATER 12 F L C V' ?
13 A. NG, THERE WEREN'T.
14 JUCGE H0YT: SPELL THAT FOR THE 15 REPOR1ER.
16 hh. V A iN KLEY: YEAH, SULE.
l '/ T-E-N-S-I-0-h-E-T-E-R-S, lb EY hh. \/ A N KLEY:
l !. ( . hCh LIC YCU GC ABOUT DETERMINING 26 GkOUNLUATER FLOU IF YOU DID NOT INSTALL A l; Y 21 T E li S I Ol;E T E ., S i 22 A. UE LOCKED AT THE DEFINITION CF 23 G R O U i! D V. A l E R TALLE IN THE STATE REGS F o r. SOLID 24 HASTE Abb LE TRIED f0 C0i4 FORM LITH THOSE STATE 25 REGS TO DETERMII;E THE TOP OF THE E0NE OF l
1 i
- l f
3S6 1
1 SATURATION I t' THE PROFILE.
- 2 C; . ARE YOU ALARE OF A STATEt4ENT IN THE FINAL
.l 1
\
3 ENV I R ONf;ENT AL STATEMENT FOR THE DAVIS-BESSE i 4 NUCLEAR POWER STATION, MARCH, 1973, WHICH STATES 5 AS FOLLOUS: AND I WILL LET YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO
, \
t., LOOK /, T THIS IF YOU SO DESIRE.
l
~/ QUOTING FROM PAGE 2-20 OF THAT
! S ENVIRONhENTAL STATEMENT IT STATES, "AT THE SITE ,
- I 9 THE GROUNDUATER TABLE ELEVATION FOLLOWS THE LAKE )
] 10 LEVELS. IT IS USUALLY A FEU FEET HIGHER THAN THE 4
l 11 LAKER AND WhEN THE LAKE RISES SEVERAL FEET DURING I
)
t
) 12 STORMS, THE GFOUNOWATER TABLE ELEVATION WILL RISE
! 13 C OliM EN S UR AT E LY "
1 14 DO YOU WISH TO LOOK AT THE ENVIRONiiENTAL 15 S T A T E f4 E N T DEFORE YOU ANSUER THE OUESTION?
16 A. YEAH, I T H I ll K S0. OKAY.
1 17 Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO
{
3L REVIL\ ThE STATEEENT?
)
j 15 A. YES, I hAVE.
l 20 (. HAVE YOU SEEN THAT B E r: O R E TODAY?
21 A. I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT; f
22 UUT THEhE'S A REFEREllCE TO THE PSAR AMENDMENT, ANL I
j 23 I HAVE S E Ei! THAT DOCUMENT, AS I RECALL. THE 24 00CUMENT LATEr LY THE UAY, OF THE PSAR ANENDMENT )
tS IS 1569, 50 IT'S DATED. .
I l l
1
\
l l
3S7 1 Q. WHAT IS THE PSAR AMENDMENT --
MAYBE YOU 2 CAN PCINT OUT LHERE YOU SEE THAT?
3 A. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. DID YOU ASK UhAT 4 PSAR AMENDMENT --
THAT'S THE PRELIMINARY SAFETY 5 ANALYSI$ REPORT ANEhDMENT.
6 r. AND YOU hAVE SEEN THAT PARTICULAR 7 D O C U M E l; T ?
L A. I DELIEVE I HAVE, YEAH. WE HAVE ALL THE
, f. PSAR Ih OUR FILES.
10 (. DOES THAT COCUMENT CONTAIN A SIMILAR 11 STATEMENT TO THIS STATEMENT?
12 A. I EELIEVE IT DOES.
13 C. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATIOfl ,
14 FOR LhY THIS STATEMENT APPEARS I !! THE i
15 E N V I R Oil M E N T A L STATEMENT OR THE PSAR DOCUMENT? .
i l ti A. WELL, I PRESUF.E THAT ThERE'S SCNE 17 REOUIREhENT I f; ThE ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT TO DISCUSS
)
10 G n 0 0 f. D W A T E R CONDITICNS; A f; D THIS IS AN IfiPORTANT 1S P AR A!;E T ER IN ThE G R OUf!Dh AT ER CONDITIONS IN T ii E I Eu SITE.
21 C. . WOULD YOU h0T DISACPEE WITH THIS 22 S T A T El;E N T THAT'S IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL STATEMENT 7 23 A. I THIhK, COIF 4G LACK TO 19 ti S , I THINK THAT 1
24 THAT S T A T E M Ell T WAS CORREC . iHL LAKE LEVEL WAS 25 CERTAlhlY hCT DOING LHAT IT HAS EEEN DOING IN THE
358 1 LAST FEU YEARS.
2 WHEN I LOOK AT THAT S T A T E ta.E N T IN LIGHT OF j
3 TOCAY'S VERY hlGH LAKE LEVEL, WHAT I FIND IS THAT 4 THE MONITOR UELL-WATER LEVELS --
AND WE LOOKED AT 5 FOUR OF THEN FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS HEARING --
6 ThE li O N I T O R WELL-WATER LEVELS THAT WERE NEASURED 7 Ih THE BEDROCK ARE ACTUALLY C,UITE, QUITE CELOW THE l
c EXISTING LAKE LEVEL; 50 I D 0 tl ' T BELIEVE THAT THI5 i
9 STATENENT IS NECESSARILY REFLECTIVE OF TODAY'S
- 10 blGH LAKE LEVEL.
I 11 0. I LOULD IRE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO 12 ONE h0RE SENTENCE PUT INTO THIS ENVIRONMENTAL O 13 S1^1etteNT.
14 IF YOU WOULD LOCK ON PAGE 2-31, ON THE lb TOP O r- THE PAGE, FIRST PARAGRAPH, THERE IS A 16 STATEt1ENT, "EOME COTTAGERS ALONG THE LAKE OCTAIN 17 THEIR DRINKII:G WATER FROM SHALLOU BEACH WELLS IN lb THE LAKE SANDS AND S 0 tie SCUTH OF T li E SITE TRUCK IN
- 19 WATER FRON CENTRAL CISTERhS."
20 DO YOU SEE THAT SENTENCE?
21 A. YES, I D0.
22 Q. DO YOU ti A \ E ANY DISAGREENENT WITH THAT 23 SENTENCE?
2 t. A. f. 0 , I THlhK THAT'S A FACTUAL S T A T E N E ll T .
2 25 tiR . VAN KLEY: THANK YOU. I HAVE 1
l
l 3S9 1
> i l
( l NO FURTHER (; U E S T I O N S , YOUR H Cll C R . j l 2 dbDGE HCYT: MR. LODGE? I l
t '. R . LODGE: ONE 140 MENT.
- 4 NOThING.
5 dUDGE HCYT: VERY UELL. WE'VE 6 COVERED QUESTION 0. AND YOUR NEXT AREA 0F
'/ ('UESTIONS UILL eE ON UHICh ONEi l
l b f: R . VAN KLEY: 10.
5 JULGE H0YT: VERY WELL. UE'LL 10 RFFER NOW TO (UESTION 10, S T A R T I t.!G AT PAGE G3 Ch I
l 4
11 ThE DIRECT T E S T Il;G N Y . '
l l
I 12 (,U E S T I O li 10 DEALS WITH THE CUESTION THAT i 1
13 UAS PRESENTED DEAllhG WITH THE TOTAL R A D I O fiU C L I D E 14 I N V ti l. T O R Y OF THE BURIAL SITE AFTER 30 YEARS OF l
l 1S O P E.! A T I G t, UNDER EXPECTEL LEVFIS OF R E S I t!
l l l ti C 0 N T A h l ii A T I O N . I I
l '/ Pik. VAN KLEY: UE'LL hAVE f.O lb CUESTIONS ON (UESTICN 10. I l
15 dUCGE hCYT: ALL i, I G H T . Mk.
1 j 2L LOCGEi <
21 ia h . LODGE: YOUF H M' O P , YOU APE i 22 O U T -S P E A K i l:G ME. MAY I JUST HAVE A bRIEF SECOND.
I l l
L3 JUCGE hC)T: S U F; E . PAGE 63 IS 24 Ul6 E R E THE DIRECT STARTED.
I 25 - - -
I l
-l 1
400 l 1
1 C R O S S - E X A M I tl A T 1014 l 2 BY NR. LODGE:
1 3 r. hR. BL/ND, I JUST hAVE A COUPLE OF
]
l 4 (; U E S T I O N S . ON PAGE G3, YOU INDICATE THAT l l
0 t-OLLOkING LECONNISSIONIlG OF THE DAVIS-BESSE SITE, 6 CESIUM-137 WILL DE ESSENTIALLY THE ONLY R E M A I N I t:G ,
I 7 R A D I C l1 U C L I D E .
l b L h E li YOU MALE THAT STATENENT, YOU REFER l
,i S TO R A C I OilU C L I D E OF THE P R E S Els T INVENTORY ABOUT
- 10 HALF THE LEVEL. U llA T Ab0UT THE OTHER CELLS THAT ,
I I 11 A .' E PROJECTED TO EE EUILT?
{
)
12 A. THIS R E S P 0 fl S E WAS Ih f. E S P O N S E TO THE l
13 (UESTION OF Uti A T IS THE PRESENT INVENTORY OF 14 R A D I C N U C L I ts 2 S IN 1hE CELL AND b A S It4 5 . THAT ONLY i i l
l 15 ADDRESSFS CUPkENTLY PhAT IS I !! THE S AG i t; .
)
i 16 C. T H E t, E t , 'r DID YOU GO C ti TO TALK ACOUT WHAT !
i 17 LOULD EL P R E S E t,T F O L L O W I t:G DECOMMISSION OF l lb DAVIS-GESSEi .,
)
l lb A. Th0SE ARE SUESE(UENT ( U E S T I 0 ti S . .
IN
)
l \
20 RESPONSE TO A D D I T I o t .' A L . '
! I
- 21 F. GN PAGE 64, YOU I I; D I C A T E D ,
22 " CONSERVATIVELY A S S UtiE D THAT LEVELS OF ACTIVITY IN I
l 23 t- U T U k E is ti S I h b A T CliE S b!LL C 0 ti T I N U E AT P fl E V I O U S L Y ll I 6
)
f O 24
- i. b N E A S L F. E t LEVELS."
15 THAT S it4 P L Y AN A S S U tiP 1 I O f: THAT YOU l
l l
l
401 1 DECIDED TO NAKE, OR IS THAT SASED UPON A r! Y l
L INTERNAL STUDIES OR DATA THAT TCLELO EDISCN t; A Y l 3 HAVE AS TO WHAT THEY ANTICIPATE? )
4 A. IT'S LASED ON THE FACT THAT THE NEASURED v
\
l 5 LEVELS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCHARGED TO THE BASIN TO 6 COVER A PERIOD OF TIhb LHERE THERE E/S A STEAh l
\
7 GENERATOR TUBE LEAK, SO IT IS BASED O f: ACTUAL l
l 1
( b FACTUAL DATA THAT hE HA\E OF MEASUREMENTS. I
! l 5 SO IF I \l E R E GOING TO PRCdECT UHAT WOULD ,
- 10 ti AP P E h Ih ThE FUTURE, THIS R E P R E S E!! T S A VERY GOOD )
1 i
l 11 CATA 6ASE TO START FROM FOR THIS ESTIMATION.
)
j 12 4 I S is ' T IT A FACT THAT THERE IS A HIGH l l
13 PkobABILITY THAT LILL EE LARbER, GREATER, MGRE 14 F R E ( U Ei;T STEAM TUCE LEAKS AS A FLANT, SUCH AS 15 DAVIS-bESSE, I'.0 V E S TOUARD MIDDLE AGEi 16 A. T H /, T DOESN'T hEALLY IMPACT THE /, S S E S S i.E N T l 17 OF UHAT IS YOUR EEST ESTIMATE BECAUSE THE EEST I lt ESTIlATE IS LASED UPON THE ACTUAL ObSERVATIOi! CF A !
l !> TU6E LEAK. 50 EVEN IF UE DID HAVE ONES IN THE i i EU FUTURE, THE) ARE L O U t. L E D DY THE GNES THAT WAS 21 EXPERIENCdD I ll THE PAST.
22 it k . LOLLE: N O T H i t,G FURTHER. !
23 JUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. ALL e4 i; I G h T .
2b hh. VAN K l i. ) : bE WILL h0VE ON TC l
i
l
( 402 i i l 1
1 (UESTION ll, I E E L I E V E..
l I
O 2 JUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. AND I I
THAT STARTS IN DIRECT TESTIMONY ON PAGE 67 AND )
4 DEALS LITH E S T It4 A i 5 f: DOSE TO Al! INDIVICUAL 1
S S T A N D I f; G O f; THE COVERED fSASIN D R E D G I t;G S AFTER 30
)
l 6 YEARS CF OPERATION AND EXPECTED LEVELS OF RESIN
)
7 C O N T A f'i l N A T I C N .
I b MR. VAN KLEY: kl E HASE NC FURTHER l
L (UESTIONS ON ll, EITHEP.. l 1
l 10 JUCGE HCYT: VERY BELL. f4 R . '
i 11 LOCGE?
12 - - -
i 15 CROSS-EXAhINATIOh l t. bY hh. LCDGE:
a 15 C. UGULD YOU EXPLAIN, li k . EL/ND, YOUR 16 ESTINATE OF 7,000, .007, I/. R E t4 5 PER YEAR TO A
- 17 PERS0h STANCING CN A WASTE CELL RELATIVE TO T it E i
lb . 0 0 '/ I Q E ll S PER h00R THAT APPEARED IN THE FEDERAL l
i 1S iEGISTER N0TICE?
i 20 I ThlNK TbAT WAS SEVEN-TENTHS CF A H R Eli l l 21 F R OI. A 1;U N D R E D HOURS OF EXPOSURE?
22 tk. bILDERG: COULL YOU IDENTIFY 21 U llE R E IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE THAT APPEARS?
l 24 ThE L I T t; E S S : I LGULD LIKE TC 2b LOOK AT Th/T, PLEASE. I I '
l l
403 )
l l
1 14 R . LODGE: IT'S THE LAST )
2 NUMLER IN THE LOWER fs I G h T - H A N D CORNER Oi TABLE 1 l
3 IN THAT OCTOLER ETH FEDERAL REGISTER. I HAVE IT 4 IF YOU --
! THE tlITNESS: PLEASE REPEAT THE )
6 (UESTI0tl, UHAT COMPARISON YOU UANT.
I 7 LY ti k . LOCGE: l 1
6 q. You HA\E --
YOU'VE GIVEN AN E S T I t' A T E IN ,
I S YOUR TESTINONY OF .007 MREMS PER YEAR EXPOSURE TO 16 A F t. R S c h STANDING ON A UASTE CELL, A i, D IN THE 11 FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE, YOU ESSEijTIALLY GAVE WMAl l
12 I FACTORED DOWN TO .007 MREMS PER h0UR EXPOSURE. !
13 C / t1 YOU RECONCILE THAT APPARENT s
14 D I S C R E P A N C Y 't l 16 ii h . 5ILLERG: I WOULC OCdECT TO l
I 16 THE (.U E S T I Ot; THAT IS RAISED. THE FEDERAL REGISTER i
17 DOES t,01 C G l;l A I A .007 i4 U t4 L E R , AND ALSO THE FEDERAL I
lb LEGISTER IS NOT THIb WITNESS'S Al; A L Y S I S , DUl THE l
l 15 i
i nLC STAFP'S ANALYSIS. '
I
'O I: R . LODGE: I'LL REPHR/SE. l l l j el JLLLE hCYT: I ThlNK, MR. LOLGE, l
l 2 '-
. YOU 5HOULD REPHRASE BECAUSE WHAT IS IN THE FEDERAL l 23 hEGIb1LR b/S THE C 0 l:t,I S S 1 0 h ' b D E T E R l;l f4 A T I O N 24 SULhlTTc0 TO bY $TArr.
- I 2L oY i '. R . LODGE
1 l
l l
l 1- - . . - - _ . _ . . ._ _ - - _ . _ . . _ .- --
404 l 1 0. YOU SEE THAT TADLE, AND I ASSUNE YOU HAVE 2 SEEh IT PRIOR TC ThIS DATE; IS THAT ACCURATE?
3 A. YES. i
- 4 Q. ALD YOU \<ILL liOTE THAT IN TEE FOOTNOTES l
5 TO ThAT TABLE 1 THAT APPEARS IN THE FEDERAL 6 REGISTER I.CTICE GF OCTOLER STH, 1565, T h /i T IN THE 7 L O 1.' E R RIGHT-HAND CORNER THAT T H E r,E IS A TOTAL 6 A N A U /. L COSE I.R E f; OF .7, CORRECT?
j S A. ThAT IS CORRECT.
10 0 AND YGU UILL NCTE THAT THERE IS A i
J 11 FOOTNOTE TO ThAT fAULE THAT INDICATES THAT IT IS 1
12 bASEL U P O t: Ah ASSUMPTION OF AN EXPOSURE OF 100 i 15 h00RS PER YEAR, CORkECTV l
14 A. ThAT IS CURRECT.
15 O. A t. D IF YCU DIVIDE 100 INTO Tli A T .7r DO 10 YOU ti C T A R f, I \ E AT .007?
17 A. CORRECT.
lb t. ALL RivhT. AhD DOES 1 HAT LOT APPEAR TO lb i.E A D I S C R E P Al'. C Y OR A VARIANCE OF Y:UR TEST!h0NY?
'O A. NOT AT ALL. YOU HA\E TO LOOK AT THE 21 f!TLE OP THE table IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE 12 \,HICh IS T li E ESTikATtD DOSES OF Ah t h D I V I D L' A L F R 0li 23 S T A N C' I N G AUC\L ThE U t- C O V E R E D UASINS.
<. 4 11, LELPUNEE TO THE L O / R L' ' S (cU E S T I O f1 W/S 25 'rI H A T 15 Al, E S T i tiA I E D DOSE TO AN thDIVIDUAL
._ _A.~..--..__.x_-x .
405 4
j l STANDING O il THE COVERED BASIN DREDGES.
f 2 Q. SG W E /1 T YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT C A P P I f1 G IT !
3 UGULD REDUCE ThE EXPOSUREY l 4 A. YES. I l
5 C. ThE A i 4 S .. E R ThAT YOU GIVE Off PAGE 67, .007 6 liR E h 5 PER YEAR --
PARDON ME --
I UCULD LIKE TO l
7 R E P h n A S ti .
i a GN PAGE 67, UF COURSE YOU GAVE THAT 7,000 1
9 l'. R E i n PER YEAR E X P O S U P. E . ON PAGE 75, YOU GIVE AN
- 16 ESTIhATE Or .02 l'.R E M S PER YEAR LALIATION EXPOSURE I
11 TO A P E R $ 0 f; S T A N D i f4G ON THE SURIAL SITE.
12 C A F. YOU EXPLAIN THAT CISCREPANCY?
l 13 A. WHAT UAS YOUR REFERENCE FOR THAT PAGEi 14 (. iS, AND 1T'S ANSWER 14-1.
,l 15 A. Tiik .L: M R E t;?
( 16 ( . ids, .0 --
j li A. ThE .6L liR Eli I5 2. T I tt E S THE .007, A t; L l l
10 THAT IS ThE BASES ThAT UE USED TO DO THE UPPER 1
1 ll L O U l:L .
l 20 tik. LCDbE: i G Tli ll;C FURTHER.
1 23 JULGE HOYT: VERY WELL. YOU MAY )
22 i'GOCEED LITH THE NEXT C U E S T I C i! S .
(
?S t ' i! . VAN KLEY: THE NEXT ONE IS I
/4 t, U t;L t: R .1 2 . LE L O I; ' T HAVE ANY (UESTION Ch fi u t E E R i l
2b 12.
l 1
l 406 l
1 JUDGE H0YT: MR. LODGE, DO YOU i 2. i; A V E ANY?
l l 3 ilR . LODGE: CNE N 0 l4 E ti T , YCUR i
, 4 HON 0k.
i j b l!R . LODGE: t,0 (UESTIONS.
i l 6 tl R . VAN KLEY: NO OUESTIONS O t! 13, j 'e EITHER.
L J U t: L E h0)T: VdRY HELL.
l !
! MK. LODGE: WE HAVE No i I l ll (g U E S T I O r, 5 c t' 13, EITHER.
]
11 li R . SAN KLEY: WE HAVE NO l li (a b E S T I O B S Ct; 14.
1 1 13 JULoE t. G 1 T : VERY WELL.
j 14 fin . LODGE: NOR DO LE.
i 7 I l
i 16 hk. VAh KLEY: UE H/VE HC J
I l t; rUESTIONS Ot; lb.
- i i I l ~/ JULGL t; O Y l' VERY WELL. !
i i
l 16 FR. LODGE: HOR 00 WE. <
! l !< hk. V /- l, KLLY: SPEEDING f. l G H T j
1 1 20 /.L O N C , NO (UESTICtS G l'. 16.
i .1 t>R. L0LUE: LE HAVE A FEV!.
l l 2. JULGL H0Y1: O i! 16, T ii A T ' S i ;. 3 DEAL!hb LITH ThE TOTAL ESTIMATEC UHOLL 60DY DOSE l l 26 E f,U l k /.L El4 f FOR AN I t a D I V I L U /s L , lhE FOOD I t!G E S T 10h 1 l !. b FATEL/Y, ThAT COULD RESULT P R 0tt T H li FINAL Oh I l
l l
a-_ _ __. - _._-. - _
I i 407 i l
l j' 1 30-YEAR I N V E t; T O R Y OF R A D I OriU C L I C E S .
)
2 OY MR. LODGE:
1 1
3 (. li k . D L /,N D , ON P A. G E EC, Iti YOUR ANSWEk TO, 4 YOUR RESPONSE ?! U liC E R E D 16-4, YOU ASSUMED THAT THE l l
q 5 t- L E S H OF GEESE WOULD A C C U t4 U L A T E R A D I O f!U C L I D E 6 C O N C E i; T R /.T 10 ti LCUAL TO THE CONCENTRATI0ii IN THE i
i VEGETATIOI.,
7 I
? I l
l L IS ThAT A \ALID ASSUf4PTION TO BE t4 A K I N G Y ;
I l i b A. (Nh. 6 L / l, D ) NO, IT'S REALLY NGT, IT'S '
10 REALLY Als G V E R -C O N S E R V A T I S t. . !
! l J
11 O. It: UHAT R E S P E C T 'i )
! 12 A. IN LESPECT THAT T ii E --
ACTUALL) T li E '
l 12 UFTAKE OF FOi!L /ND ThE C ot!C Ei!T R A T I O N LOULD 1
f 14 ACTU/.LLY BE LESS Tli/ t. THE CONCENTRATI0ft IN THE l
l lb VEGETATION, AND /LSO ThE CLEARING TIME OP 16 R A L I 0 fiU C L I U S S e n Cli PUhl IS h/THER (; U I C K , Abb SUCh 17 THAT THE CLEARANCE FROM T li E DIOLOGICAL SYSTEh 10 k,' O U L D E V r. l; GFEAiLY RELUCE THE R E S U L T A l; T 11 C Oll C E H T R A T I C h 5 . I 20 C. ARE 10U /1/RE OF ANY S C I El:T I F I C i !
21 LITERATUkb Tl. A T Il! C I C A T E S TH/T b10 LOG 1 CAL t
i 22 C O N C E ti T R A T I O i, DF R A D I O i; U C L I D E S OCCURS AT E/ Cli STEP l I 25 OF THE FOOD CH A II: OF T ill: D10 LOGICAL Cit A I !! ?
4 .
24 A. I COh'T U t: D E R S T / l! D YOUR (UESilOh, i i
j 2S 0. ISN'T THERE ANY SCIEtJTIFIC LITERATURE i
t
- . . _ . . , p - - ,. ,,---,-_n-_ - , _ _ _ - - - - ._,_r-,__ _,_,n _,,--c,-_ _.m. , - - , , , , __n_e- - , , - - - - - , - .
408 i
i
- 1 THAT SUGGESTS THAT RADIONUCLIDES ACTUALLY
- e. CO.SENTRATE IN FLESH?
3 A. ThERE IS. ThERE IS SCIENTIFIC DATA, AND 4 STUDIES NAVE BEEN DONE THAT INDICATE EXACTLY \lH A T l
1 L 1 JUST SAID; THAT ThE ACTUAL A C C Ul;U L A T I C H It. THE ]
l 6 FCUL IS LESS THAN THE ACTIVITY IN THE FOOD, ANC f 7 THAT IN T E k t.S OF RESULTANT FLESH C ON C El;T R A T I G M , <
l4 I
E AND PARTICULARLY FOR WATER FOUL bECAUSE OF ThE b CLEARAhCE TIhts, T li E RESULTANT C o t; C C f.T R / T I O N S ARE i
10 E V E l. LESS.
1 11 C. hAVE YOU AEAD ANY STUD!hS C 0 N C E n t; I l1 G THE j
! i j 12 I t;G E S T 10:2 or GRASS EY CATTLE AND ThE CONCENTRAT10l. !
i 13 UF RAEI0h0CLIDES T H /s l LOULL OCCUR l ts TiiE I R F L E S H 't ,
14 A. YES. hXCUSE NE -- NO, lh THE FLESH OF i
lb 'l.E i CATTLE, LC, I hAVE t. 0 T .
I 36 r. YOU AHL UNAWARE OF /' N Y LITERATURE Tli A T l '/ S L' G G E S l S Tht1 ThERL IS A COhSTANT FACTOR /ND A lb CO:iCENTRATIon Or RADIOFUCLICES IN ANIMAL PLESN7 j lt A. I K f; U L C t- l; 6 STUDIES. I HA\E NOT l
'O
. uhVILLED thy STUDIES Til AT DIRECTLY RELATE TO !
! l 1 C otJ C L U T R A T I U f, Ih CATTLL F t. L S H . i i
j 22 r. h0h ALOUT t- I S h Y ARL Y 0 l' AWARE OF ANY I 23 STUIIEb L l*C L I b 1 11. 0 ThAT 5 1 E C l' T i b t - L G cot.CEN1RA110H
! 7. 4 Ih tLEbh UF F I S hi )
I 2b A. I' h E l. E I. A \ L b L I f; A LLT 01- STUU1bS lii A T l 1
409 1 HAVE BEEN DONE TO ESTABLISH S0-CALLED BIOLOGICAL l l
l 9 2. A C C U t', U L /1 I O N FACTORS R E L A T I f4 G THE col;CEfTRATION OF l l
3 RADIONUCLICES It! UATEF. TO THE RESULTANT FISH FLESH l
4 CONCEt.TRATION.
l S (, t. h / T PACTORS ARE YOU ALARE OFi l
l l e I 6 A. TYPICALLY, THE FACYORS ARE IN THE ORDER l
- I
! l 7 or TEN LAY i . l is, US TWO TO TEN CAY l'.I h u f FOUR.
l i
L C. I l, LAY TERh57 i l
L A. IN lEkNS 1 HAT THE FISH C o l C E N T R A T I O f, 15 16 ROUGHLY A PACTOR OF A H U f4 D R E D TO A THOUS /NDTU Ok l 11 SC LESS Th/n THE U /.T E R C 0i' C d N T R A T 10 N .
L i l
$ 12 0. hAVE 'r 0 U READ ANY LITERATURE bY W. H.
1.:i C h A T H AI. , 44 . L. FISHEL OR h. vi . G P A i, T i 1 A. NOT TG li Y RECOLLECT 10N.
)
) 15 (. hAVE Y0U E E/ D OF A l. Y STU[lES THAT MAY l 4
l 16 HAVL L E Li: PUBLISHED OR P Ci R F O R N E L bY THE RESEARCh j l '/ L/DLh/TokY OF L i' I C f. C/ k D I DE ON FRESHWAlLE ;
1 1 ,;
l lb U l 0 - A C C U t, U L A T I L *. F / C T O E S 't '
1 !
i t 11 A. I L C u l f. LIAE 10 1.LVIEW A PIECE OF DATA, 1 l I i i 20 le I C e t t. 0 , FlhSTi i i
I i il 0 A l t. LIGHT, j i
l l 42 A. I LOULL LIKE TO CL/LIFY A PRLVIOUS 1
23 L f A l b t'. E h i /, U D l; L S 5 ti U LECAUSE I L II N '1 EXACTLY l
l :.4 UlLERSithL Y000 L o r n i L t ( I U f. S , AND 1 APPHECIATL i
j 2L Y O U l: of I f: 0 I i; b 1hIL CUT.
)
i t - _ _ - _ - - _ . _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ - . _ _ -_ _ _ _ _ _ _
- 410 i
1 THERE ARE THOSE A C C U t! U L A T I Oil FACTORS Tl: A T I l
2 DO RESULT IN ThE FISH CONCENTrtATION HIGHER T H A r. ,
l 3 THE LATER CONCENTRATION, 'i E S . l l
4 (' . AND DO YOU KN05 \!f: A T THE L I T I- R A T U R E 5 INDICATES THE FACTORS MAY GE7 l l I 6 A. THERE'S A WIDE VARIATION Ih eHE DATA.
I l
'i ThE DATA ThAT LE USL FOR THIS Ai4 A L Y S I S ARE T A R I f4G l l
6 t- R O l; REG GUIDE 3.10E. I 9 0 I ll LAY TERMS, t!H A T IS T H A T 't 1 l
1 30 A. lLAT IS THE NRC'S NETh0D FOR EVALUATING l 11 R O U T II. E RELEASES OF RADICACTIVE MATERIAL FROM 12 NUCLEAR F O L E i, FL/ HTS.
13 ( .. DO YGL KNCL V h E T h h ri RACICl4 UCLICES CAN l.
I 14 CONCENTRATE IN FISL UP TO A FACTOR OF 500 GR EVEN i
15 G F. E A T E f 't 10 A. YES. l ii A T HAS LEEN If4CLUDED I ll GUR DOSE i 17 /NAliSIS.
Jo ( . r2 A r. t 01, tE, IN tl h / T 't 4
lb A. IN T it E DOSE ANALYSES.
i l 'O ( . FOR YOUT TESTIMONY, YCU N E A l . 't !
i !
- ,1 A. YLb.
I l /2 (. . ARE YOU T A l l:! N G AHOUT FAGES 01 Al; D L27 l 23 A. YES.
> <i hh. L O L (, E t LOTHING FURTHEh.
25 T h f l.K 10U. l i
i
- - , - - - - - _ -- - _ - - - - - . - , . - - _ . - - . - -- - ,,-.-- - - . ~ ---- - -- -
- . . - . , . . - , ~ _ - . . - - - - . -
, l
< 411 !
l i
1 JUDGE H0YT: MR. LODGE, I V!CNDER l G 2 IF YOU COULD GET A CLEAN COPY OF THIS PAR 1ICULAR l
i a CHART. )
i l
! 4 DO YOU EAAT TO INCLUDE THIS IN ThE L ht: CORD, OR DO YOU W A tl T TC JUST REFER TO IT AS A
- ]
6 TACLE AhD CITb LhERE THE TABLE CAhE F R 0 ti BECAUSE l l
7 ThIS HAS A GREAT MANY hANDURITTEN NOTES CN IT THAT U 1 SIMPLY U G U L L> h0T WANT TO PUT IN THIS RECORD. I 9 t ', R . LCDGE: ThANK YOU. THAT'S -
10 KINL OF LORK PR0LUCT, YOUR HONCR. I DID REFER THE i
11 WITNESS TO TAGLE 5.2 F R 0 t; THE PERRY NUCLEAR PLANT i
i i
! 12 tILAL EN VI R ONf;ENT AL STATEtiENT LATED IS74 --
APRIL, I 13 IS74.
- 14 JUDGE h0YT
- VERY UELL. THIS l
- lb WILL NOT LE INCLUDED, THE COPY THAT YOU SHOWED THE l 16 LIThESS, IT WILL tl 01 UE INCLUDED IN THIS RECORD.
1 i
- 17 /UD THE WITNESS' TESTIMOLY WILL REFLECT THAT HE j L l lt UNLY USLD THE t U l;t: LkS, NOT ANY OF THE HAi!DWRITTEh I
I 19 I H F 0 k t4 A T I O N CONTAlllED THEREOh.
I l 2U HR. LOCGE: CORRECT.
I I
l
.1 JUDGE H0YT: I THINK WE SHOULD
.2 ALSG PkCUAblY --
THIS IS AS GOOD A POINT AS ANY TO 23 i!OTE IN THE RECORD Tli A T DR. JACKSON HAS NOT DEEN t 24 ATTENDING 1HIS LAS1 SESSION O f- THE HEARING T ii l s 2S A F F E kN O Cl; BEC/USE HE WAS EXCUSED FOR PURPOSES OF t
\
t '412 l l l l
1 PREPARING T E S T I N O t; Y FOR T O tiO R R C W .
)
O I'
2 MR. SILBERG: HE*S P R E P A R ItJ G fC l l
3 LEAVE FOR EUROPE TOMORROU. j 4 dUDGE HOYT: THAT bASN'T TO GO 1
5 O il THE RECCRD. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU READY?
ti hS. SIGLER: LE HAVE SOME 4
l 7 (UESTIONS FOR Dk. BENNETT.
O JULGE HOYT: Oh WHICh O f; E 7 i
L IK S . SIGLER: N U ti B E i' 17.
10 - - -
l 11 CR055-EXAMINATION
( 12 SY MS. SIGLEh:
4 13 Q. DR. E E f; N E T T , YOU TESTIFIED --
CAN YOU i
14 HEAR f.Ei '
l 15 A. (DR. B E h t; E T T ) fOT WELL, MA'Ah.
16 O. YOU TESTIFIED SAMPLES WERE T A K Ei; OF THE
! 17 C O fc T El: T S OF THE SETTLING LASIN E C T TOfiS , CORRECT?
i 16 A. YES, MA'AM.
! l l lE C. A i,0 WHC TOOK THESE SAMPLES.
I 20 A. Ui; DER fE R . DRICEN'S D I R E C T I Oil .
[ 21 C. . U l'C E R 22 A. -- f;R . LRIDEN'S D I R E CT I Oi. .
, 23 (. Iih . i. L I D E L ' S SUPERV1SION, DIRECTIOft, )
l l 2 d. OKAY. j
! l 2b ilhEN WERE THESE SAMPLES T A K El. ; DO YOU )
l I
\
l 413 l 1 R E M El;B E R ?
O 2 A. NL, I DO NOT.
l' 3 Q. MR. BRIDEN? l 4 A. (MR. E R I D E !4 ) I D O t: ' T RECALL THE DATE. ,
5 THE S Atie L E S 'r/ E R E LACELED. WE COULD FIND THAT. )
l 6 (..
IT LAS JUST GNE DATE? YOU ONLY TOOK 7 SAMPLES ON ONE DATE?
- U A. ThAT'S CCRRECT.
i 9 C. HOh MANY SAMPLES WERE TAKEN7 )
l 10 A. UNE SAMPLE. l I
ll Q. SIhPLY ONE S AliP L E 7 DO YOU FEEL THIS IS A )
12 R E 3 fi E S E N T A T I V E S A t4 P L E ?
13 A. Ih THE CONTEXT THAT THE L /, K E ERIE UATER 14 IS RELATIVELY -- t ri D THE WATER TREAThENT PROCESS lb i.T 'l H E eL/NT hAS NOT VARIED OVER THE YEARSr I l )
16 UOULO CE SURPRISED TO SEE A VARIATION IN THE l
! 17 C O li T E i; T S IN THE SELECTION CF ThE C O TTOtt OF THAT )
lb P 0 tJ D .
1 i ik (J . LhERE bERE THEY TAKEN IL THE POND? i l
l 20 A. (Dk. EEUhETT) MR. E R I D E t'?
l
. 21 A. ( I4 R . 6PIDEN) WhERE THE SLUDGE IS a 2 .' COHCENTRATED.
1 J
23 (; . THE LEST E fi D ?
i 2. A. (MR. U R I D Ei:) , YES. l l
25 (s . h0L ARE THE SAhELES TAKEN?
i
414 1 A. THESE SAMPLES UERE T/ KEN IN A DIP-TYPE O 2 S Al.P L E . TO COLLECT ONE, IT TAKES AFOUT LITERALLY 3 THREE OR FOUR DIPS OVER THE RANGE TO F Il L UP A 4 500-CC COTTLE.
5 (; . WhAT (! A S THE CONSISTENCY OF THE SAMPLED 4
6 f4 A T E R I A L ?
e A. IT'S A VERY, VERY LOOSE SLUCCE.
a Q. IT WAS (q U I T E UET, THEN?
E A. IT'S WET, YES, AND D E C A i; T THE VATER OFF 10 0F IT SO YOU END UP WITH THAT UMICH CELLS OUT, BUT 11 IT STILL C 0 ll T A I N S A LCT OF WATER.
1, i
12 Cf . UOULD YOU SAY IT WAS DILUTED, T H E ti ?
13 A. YES, IT IS.
14 Q. YCU STATEL THAT THE SETTLING BASIN --
l t
lb THIS IS DR. d E t; h E T T A G A l f; ?
16 A. (DA. L E N t; E T T ) YES, el A ' A M .
17 c: . YOU STATED THAT THE SETTLII:G BASIN lE u G T10 f 5 L. E .t E i4 0 T HAZ/RDOUS UASTE; IS ThAT CORRECT?
15 A. THAT'S CORRECT, MA'Ah.
i kV r. ISN'T IT 1RUL T H /s T U f: L E R U. S. EPA j 21 R ii G U L A T I O N S AND I UILL REFER YOU TO YOUR TABLE 12 l '/ - 1 , WHICH I GUESS JUST FOLLOUS PAGE S E. OF THE l
23 TESTIHCNY --
^- '" "' ^ ' ^ '~' -
O
'~
l 25 ( .. ISN'T A R S E i; I C A LISTED hAZ/RLOUS L /s S T E
)
- l l
l
415 1 CONSTITUENT UNDER --
J 2 A. fHE TEST MADE UNDER WHICH DE TE R f;I N A T I Ci' S 1 ;
I 3 WERE MADE EY E. P. TCXICITY TESTS, AND IF YOU UILL 4 LOOK AT fAGE --
ARE YOU LOOKING AT PAGE 2?
- 5 Q. THAT'S NOT MY (UESTION. I'M ASKING
- IS 0 ARSENIC A HAZARDOUS WASTE CONSTITUENT?
I 7 A. I CAN'T (UOTE T il E DETAILS.
l l
b (: . A fi E YOU /d/ A R E THAT BARIUM IS A -
DO YOU '
l S Kr. 0 W THAT ARSENIC
. IS A N/ZARDOUS WASTE 10 CONSTITUENT?
I 11 A. YES. )
12 1
(. IS E A R I U ti /4 HAZARD W4STE CONSTITUENT?
13 A. IT C f i; LE li A Z A R D O U S AND, INDEEDr THE E.
14 P. TCXICITY TEST GIVES US L It: I T S Of! E A R I Ut", I li IT 15 0. IS CHROMIUh A HAZARDOUS WASlE J
, 10 C O ti b T I T U E k T ?
l 17 A. THE E. e. T0XICITY TEST ALSO LISTS lb C H R 0ti l Uit ,
l! f. IS LEAC7 l
20 A. S A i, E A t4 S W E R .
I 21 ( .. 15 AICKEL / hAZtRDOUS HASTE C 0 i! S T I T U E N T ?
22 A. IT'S NOT LISTED IN T ii E E. P. T0XICITY 23 TEST. l l
( 24 C. I# SILVER A hAZ/RDOUS U /. S T E CONSTITUENT?
I 2b A. I '. IS LISTED.
)
l i
416 1
i l
j 1 C. IS C H L O R 0 F O R ti A HAZARDOUS WASTE l 2 CONSTITUENT?
l \
l 3 A. IT'S NOT IN THE E. P. T0XICITY TEST.
l
- 4 0. ARE YOU CERTAIN? -
l 5 A. NOT YET. THE NEW REVISIONS f4 A Y HAVE IT, l l
l C CUT -- i 7 0. . IS IT LISTED; DO YOU K t: O U ?
L A. lor IN ThE CURRENT REGULATIONS ON E. P.
5 T0XICITY.
l lb ( , Of4 PAGS 5 -
A i: D I'M GOING TO HAVE 11 in0UBLE \.1 T h THIS -- 1 ' ll GOING TO APOLOGIZE' AHEAD 12 0F T I P. E . WHAT ALLUT BIS (2-ETHYLEHEXYL) 13 PHTHALATLY 14 A. rHTHALATE IS CLOSER TO IT, h A ' A li .
1:2 SLUDGE H0YT: SPELL THAT ONE FOR 16 THE REPORTER.
17 ThE WITiLSS: IT'5 1U F-h-T-H-A-L-A-T-E. THE PREF 1X !S 61S, B-I-5, AND 15 I ThlNK COUfSEL IS REFERRING TO (2-ETHYLHEXYL),
20 t-T-h-Y-L-H-E-X-Y-L.
. 21 (, IS THAT A hAZrRDOUS WASTE CONSTITUENT 7 l
22 A. IT'S A PRIORITY POLLUTAhT.
i 23 ( . LhAT AUGUT --
AND I ASK YOUh 24 li.b u LG EN C h --
DI-N-00TYL PHTHALATEY THAT IS D-I I I 26 UASH 1. L-U-T-Y-L P -l; -T -H - A - L - A -T - E .
l i
l l
_ c-,_ - - -- e N__. 'O ~
417 1
l 1
1 A. IT IS ALSO A PRIORITY POLLUTANT. )
I l l e Q. YCU STATE THAT THE U/TER TREATMENT SLULGE l
l l 3 IS FAIRLY TYPICAL OF THAT PRODUCED BY A TYPICAL l
i
( 4 H U t:I C I P A L LtTER TREATMENT FACILITY; IS THAT l
j 5 CORRECl:
6 A. YES, MA'AM.
I j 7 C, . AND YOU ALEC MENTIONED ITS SIMILARITY OF b ITS S L U D G L- TO THE CITY OF TOLEDO AND THE CITY OF i
i 3 OREGON; IS THAT CORRECT?
4 10 A. YES.
- 11 (. DO TOU K N O Vi IF THE CITY OF OREGON'S i!ATER 12 T R E A T h El:T SLUDGE IS LEING DISPOSED OF IN A 13 FLOODPLAIN?
l 14 A. I CC NLT.
i 1:0 1: . DO YOU KNOW IF THE LATER IS DISPOSED IN A I
16 FLOODPLAINi 1
17 A. I C A i! TELL YOU THE CITY OF TCLEDO IS l
i lb U S I f; G ONE OF FOUR LAGOONS TO DISPOSE OF THEIR l
l 1L kATER TREATMENT S L U L; G E . THEY ARE IN CLOSE l 5-20 PROXIhlTY TC DUCK CREEK OR OTTER CREEK. I All fl O T l
l 21 S U F F I C I F. h T AUTHORITY TO SAY UHETHER ThAT'S l
- 22 DISPOSAL.
23 ( ,. T i. A T ' S NOT DISPOSAL, THAT'S /s L AG O Of:?
l 24 A. I't. NOT G O l t:G TO ARGUE tilth YOU. IF YOU 25 eUT 1HE SLULGE INTO IT, IT'S UP TO YOU.
\
i
-,,-,,rw,_~m,,,,---v--ew,w---,- - - - - , , - , , , w _ --,-,-wr ,v,,m-
/
- r. .
1 A.
IT IS ALSO 2
O. A 4~17 YOU PRIORITY 3 STATE P O L L U T A l; .T IS THAT THE FAIRLY U/TER 4 TYPICAL OF il U t; I C I P A L THAT TRE/TFENT 5 WATER PRODU CED S L L:C G E bY A ,
CORRECT? TREATMENT TYPIC /L t 6 FACILITY; IS A. THAT 7
YES, i MA'AM. 't Q.
AhD i 6 YOU ITS ALSC SLUDGE TO NENTIONED ITS 9 THE OREGON; CITY IS OF TOLEDO AND SIMIL/RITY OF iO \
10 THAT ;
A. CORRECT? ThE (
CITY OF 11 YES. I' $
0 ,
DC 100 y' m 12 KNOK IF TR E A TN Et!T THE CITY OF 13 SLUDGE IS h*
PLOODPLAIN? BEING O R E G Cl: ' S 1( DISPOSED OF UATER Rt A. Ih A I DC lb NOT.
O.
DO YOU 16 KNOU IF FL OO D P L A I t; ? TH E 17 UATER IS f' A.
I C A t; DISPOSEC II; A 16 TELL U S I t4 G YOU ONE OF THE 15 FOUR CITY OF it W
ATER LAGOONS TCLEDO IS TO 20 TREATMENT DISPOSE OF A PROXIhlTY TO SLUDGE. THEIR THEY ARE 21 DUCK IN l' CREEK OR CLCSE 22 SUFFICIENT OTTER g AUTHORITY TO CREEK.
DISPOSAL. SA Y I AN ti C T 23 WHETHER 'fU
(,
THAT'S 24 ThAT'S NOT J A.
I 'M DISPOSAL, 25 NOT G O I t;G THAT'S A ,, HOM-PUT TO THE LAGCON?
SLUDGE ARGUE WITH .
1 INTO IT, IT'S YOU. IF 100 UP TO YOU.
n - .--
418 l
l 1 Q. THAT'S THE SAME SCRT OF SETTLING BASIN l z ThAT'S ECUIVALENT THAT TOLEDO EDISON U A!J T S TO l
3 DREDGE; IS THAT CORRECTi l l'
4 A. PARDON?
5 (. WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHERE TOLEDO 6 IS PUTTING THEIR SLUDGE, THE LAGOON IS S I t4 I L A R TO 7 ThE SETTLING BASINS T ri AT YOU W A f2 T TO DREDGE AND 6 oURY ON-SITE; IS THAT CORRECT?
9 A. NC, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE 10 CITY IS DOING, WhICH IS SENDING IN A WATER 11 TREATMENT SLUDGE OUT TO A LAGOON S I f4 I L A R TO THE 12 BASIh IN WhlCH TULEDO EDISON ti O W HAS ThEIR SLUDGE 13 NATERIAL.
14 RATHER THAN E X C A V A T I fig THAT AND 15 RE-6URYING THATr THE C O M itO N PRACTICE IS TO LET 16 THAT L A G O O i! FILL UP. AND UHEN IT IS FULL OF 17 SLUDGE, AND THEN TO CLOSE IT E N T 0 f1B O ,
lb E -u - T M - b -0 , PLACE.
li Q. I S ti ' T IT TRUE THAT THAT SLUDGE IS 20 ACTUALLY B E ll2G LAND APPLIED?
21 A. IT IS NOT.
22 MS, SIGLER: THANK YOU. I HAVE 23 NG FURTHER QUESTIONS.
24 JUDGE hCYT: WE'LL NGVE Off TO 25 lb, N 0 lJ .
d 419 I
fik . LODGE: FOR lHE RECORD,
- 1 i
j l
l 2 THERE \; E R E LG (UESTIONS F F. O I . THE NCU-STATE l
3 INTERVENORS.
4 JUDGE UCYT: I BEG YOUR PARDON.
5 I DID SKIP C V E fi YOU.
6 MS. SIGLER: YOUR HONGRr I THINK l j
'/ tie HAVE ADDRESSED (UESTIONS 10 AND 19.
l
\
b hk. SILLEkG: DID NR. LODGE? l l
b JUDGE HOYT: NO. MR. LODGE DID i 10 i4 0T hAVE iNY CUESTIONS, AND I SKIPPEC GVER HIb AND l l
11 HE REMINDED '4 E , AND I AGREEC t/ I T M HIM THAT I HAD. '
l le L C '.i , il E ' k E INTO 10 Ol' 15, Mk. LODGE.
l 13 I4 R . LOLGE: JUST Oi! E MOMENT, !
14 YOUR HCNGR. j l
15 JUDGE HCYT: ALL F. I G H T . I l l
16 EELIEVE \;E TREATED THIS P R IllC I P AL L Y BEFORE LUNCU; l 'i DID LE NOT? l J! l lL l. R . VAh KLEY: 10 AND 19, YES.
1S MR. LODGE: YOU ARE RIGHT, AND J
20 \; E HAVE f; 0 FURTHER ( U t S T I C i.S
, GN IT.
21 JUDGE HOYT: TFAT LEAVES 0NLY 22 QUESTION 20.
! 23 tis SIGLEk: 1E HAVE A FEW i
24 (UESTIONS ON CUESTION 20.
1 2S JUDGE HCYT: PROCEEC.
l l
I l _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _
420 1 _ _ _
E CROSS-EXANINATIOh 3 6Y NS. SIGLER:
s (: . t: R . U /. L L A C E , YOU STATED IN YOUR T E S T I I;G N Y
{
} 5 THAT THESE CURIAL CELLS ARE G O l i.G TO EE SEALED.
6 WhAT DO YOU I4 E A N BY " SEALED"?
7 A. ( t;R . WALLACE) THEY ARE GOING TG BE DUILT s ACCORDING TO PL/N.
9 0. IS lHAT SEALED OR CAPPEL --
IS THERE A 10 DISTINCTICt LETWEEN THE TUO TERMS?
11 /. THEY LILL LE LUILT ACCORDING TO PLAN.
12 C. WhICH MEANS, WMAT? SEALING, AS IS 13 G Ei. E R A L L 'r Th00GHT OF, IS t.O R E OF A GF'AhhATICALLY 14 CLOSEE Uf;I T SEALED OFF F R o li T ri E ENVIRONhENT. IS 15 ThIS --
16 t, . IT'S JUST THAT YOU fi A VE USED --
17 A. IF 10U UILL liA K E REFEREiSCE TO PAGE 22, 16 TUC PAGES EEYGhD ThAT, LE WILL BE bUILDIhG IN 19 ACCCRCANCE W I T fi ThAT PLAN.
20 <. LhEh YOU REFEkLING TO SEALING, YOU'RE 21 REFERRING TO COVERING IT WITH CLAY AND SOIL; IS 22 ThAT CORRECT?
23 A. LE'LL BE BUILDING IT ACCORDING TO THE 26 PLAh, 20 C: . ThANK YGU. YOU ALSO SAY THAT THE i
l l
l 421 1 S E T T L I ta G LASINS ARE GOlhG TO bE DELATERED.
l z COULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT Fi GCd S S ?
l 1
3 A. ThL TOP P O R T I CI,' OF THE WATER LILL BE i'
4 LECANTEE DOUi4 TO A LEVEL UhERE UE CAH START TO i
S SUCK IT UUT.
6 C. HOL UILL YOU D E C Al4 T IT DOWN?
~/ A. eRGBABLY UITH A F UjiP .
b (. LHERE KILL THIS UATER F L O l'. THE W A T E R I t',G 1
S PROCESSING -- WHERE MILL IT BE DISPOSED OFi 10 A. I THINK I'LL DEFER THAT TO CAVE?
4 11 A. ( tik . B R I D El<) UHEN A PCND IS DEUATERED, 12 T ii E SLUTH SETTLIlsG EASIN, IT WILL LE PUMPED OVER 13 TO THE NORTH PCND. WHEN THAT POND REACHES A
- t i 14 SFdCIFIEC LEVEL, IT'S P U tiP E L OUT I i; T O THE STATION j 15 DISCHARGE. THIS UATER IS NOT RADIOACTIVE.
i 16 (, 50 YCU ARE SAYING THIS LATER WILL GO TO l '/ LAKE ERIEi 1b A. THAT'S C 0 k .. E C T ; IT DOES ANYLAY.
l l 15 0 IS THERE f f; Y TESTING CONE ON THE WATER i
1 20 t; E P O R E IT IS L I S C h /. R G E D INTO ThE LAKE?
l 21 A. THE EPA R E (:U I R E S US TO TAKE S A f4 P L E S THERE a
- 22. O i, A PERIODIC f> A S I S r YES.
23 0. HOW REGULAR DC YOU TAKE SAhPLES?
\ -
- 2. 4 A. I BELIEVE THOSE /,R E LEEKLY S A l'.P L E S FOR 25 LIKE SUSPENDED SOLIDS AND PH, OTHER C H E i'. I C A L l
l i
- ~ . _ . _ - . - . - , . . - , , - . . . . , . . . . , , . - - , . - . , , - - . - - .
1 l
1 422 l 1 P A R AtiE T E R S .
2 <<. ALSC, li R . bALLLCE, YCU REFER TO ThE l
1 3 SOLICIFICATICN OF THE b' A S T d . THE C E M E i; T KILN DUST. !
I s 1, 0 W r THIS I$ fj C T C EliE N T , IS IT? )
l s
5 A. WHAT IS NOT C Eii E N T ? '
1 i
- 6 C. C El.E N T KILL UUST AND C E tie t. T ARE NOT THE )
1 1
i SAME T H I t'! G ; IS ThAT CORRECT? '
l t A. CEMEhT KILN DUST ANC C e l4 E N T ARE i! O T THE
]
S SAME?
10 C.
1 CORRECT.
I 11 A. I ThCUGHT hE UERE T A L K I t,G AECUT LIhE KILN !
12 CUST.
13 C. UE W :'R E T A L K I f,G ACOUT E, U R Y I I. G THE \!A S T E 1
14'. OR li l X I I;C IT UITh CEMEhT KILN DUST?
I 15 A. IT i. A S LCT L Il.E K I L t; DUST? IT UAS l
l 16 CENEtTi l
l '/ (. IS IT LIME KILN DUST -
bHAT ARE t;E lb MIXING ThIS UITH?
)
lb A. IT'S KILh DUST FRON THE CElEhT O P E R AT I Oi! .
i 20 Q. THIS IS NOT CEhENT THAT YOU ARE fi l X I h G IT
- 21 WITh T h E t.?
, 1 22 n, thAT'S CORRECT.
1 23 Q. hoi DID YOU K N O L! H C h' SOLID THIS NATERIAL '
- 24 LILL bhi l
25 hR. SILDERG: I 'l' SORRY. THIS l
423 1 MATEF.IAL, IS THAT ThE E il D PRODUCT?
2 NS. SIGLEk: THE EhL PROCUCT ;
3 UNEH IT'S MIXED WITH THE CEMENT KILN DUST? I 1
4 ThE WIThESS: IT WILL EE AS 5 DESCRJLED YESTERDAY, LIKE A DRY CLAY, CLAY-TYPE 6 f. A T E R I A L .
't LY NS. SIGLER:
L 0 IS 1HIS A POROUS t.A T E P I A L ?
5 A. (MR. WALLACE) I UILL HAVE TO DEFER TO 10 S OI.E L O D Y ELSE Cf; THE PANEL AS TO UNETHER YOU CALL 11 IT PCROUS? l 1
12 A. (DR. h E ts. O R C is ) COULD I PROVIDE AN ANSUER l 13 TO THAT (; U E S T I O N .
14 LE HAVE USED THIS PROCESS IN OTHER ,
1 15 PLACES, AND I T H I i! !'. UE HAVE TESTIFIED CEFORE IN l
16 ThIS HEARING T H /. T THE RESULTING MASS IS A I
'16 17 ( O N S I S T L h C 'r OF A VERY STIFF TO A HARC CLAY AND HAS lb THE P E :s l . E A d I L I T Y PROPERTIES SIMILAR TO A VERY ,
1
! IL STIrF TG A HARD CLAY.
i )
20 (: LATER, THEN, CAN PASS THROUGH THIS
)
1 21 NATERIAL; IS THAT CORRECT? l 1
l 22 A. (Cr. HENDRON) BELL, UATER C All PASS
)
l
.3 j ThROUGH IT AS IF IT h /. C A P E k t.E AD I L I T Y IN THE l '
1
(
24 ORDER T E t, TO THE MINUS SIX OP S E V E t; CENTIMETERS I l
l 25 eER SECONo. ,
i \
l I
l 424 I
l 1 Q. LUT IT CAN PASS THROUGH, CCRRECT?
l 2 A. \lE L L , UATER CAL FASS THROUGh AhYTHIt;G 3 UITH A F li4 ITE P E k t;E A L I L I T Y .
l 4 (. YOU'LL A G F. E E r ThENr ThAT P U T T I t; G t;ATER I I; t
I 5 CCNTACT WITh THIS MATERIAL CAh PRODUCE A LEACHAGEr l i
l i 6 RIGhT?
I ~/ A.. UUk EXPERIEt;CE WITh THE hATERIAL IS THAT i 6 Olv C E bE LUILD A CELLr AS UE ARE P R O P O S I t. G TO SUILD '
i d T i.A T '.. I T i l I N A NATTER OF VERY SHORTLYr AND I'M IU S A Y I i;G SHORTLYr li; T E R t4 5 0F MON Tl;S r THERE IS NO l l
11 UATER ThAT PASSES THROUGH IT.
12 ThIS i,ATERIAL CEMENTITIGUS REACTION OF 13 THIS li /s T E F4 I A L ACTUALLY RESULTS IN A LONLING OF 14 UATEn k H I Cli IS HEEDED TO AFFECT THE REACTIONr THE 15 C E i'.E h T I T I C U S L E /, C T I C ta . YOU I; E E D UATER IN THAT t
l 16 xEACTIGN TO f. A K c THE CEMENTITIOUS REACTION GO TO l ~/ C O li P L E T I C E , SG THE h / T E l: IN THE THING IS LOTH l t; PHYSICALLY AhD CHEMICALLY UCUND.
l l
16 (. i; h / T k.CULD OCCUE IF WATER IS PUT IN THE 20 C E L L' AFTER THIS BONDING, THIS D O N D I I; G OCCURS?
l 21 A. UELL, A G / I ld , IT'S A HYPOThETICALr ANL I l
l 22 LANT TG MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T ANSUER A QUESTION l
23 ThAT GIVES US THE V.RONG IMPRESSION. IT'S A 24 HYPOTHETICAL ~6 H A T YOU HAVE A FLAT SURPACE OF ThIS 25 NATERIAL /. h D T h El. YOU PUT !.'A T E R CN TCP OF IT, I
l l
425 .
I 1 TAKE ITi 2 (. Ok SOMEhok IT BECChES SATURATED IN UATER? l 2 A. THE UATER LOULD NOT MOVE THROUGH THIS 4 NATERIAL AT ANY MEASURABLE RATE. YOU COULD )
I j 5 CALCULATE A R /. T E OF MOVEMENT; CUT THE WAY WE LOOK i
I 6 AT THIS, IT'S A CALCULABLE CUANTITY BUT REALLY fi G T l
7 A'NEASURALLE QUANTITY. i l
b C. HCU IS ThE UNIFORMITY OF THIS PRODUCTr b THIS NIX, ASSUP,ED?
I lb A. LELL, hE*LL liA V E A FORMAL SFECIFICATION
)
11 WRITTEN FOR THE FULL PROCESS, AND CERTAINLY, i
12 I P, C L U C I h G THE NIFING SPECIFICATION LILL EE URITTEN 13 SUCH THAT, IT WILL BE A MIX D E S I G l; MUCH LIKE THAT 14 0F CONCRETE. i i
15 WE'LL hAVE 10 UEIGHT AND MEASURE OF THE 16 SLUDGEr AND UE'LL ADD A CERTAlf; WEIGHT AND tiEASURE
) 17 OF THE K I L t. DUST.
i ll (. h0L IS IT hlXEL; Do YOU KNOW?
19 A. TYPICALLY, UE LUILD A PAD OF EITHER SOIL '
l 20 GR SONE MATERIAL hARD THAT bE CAN MIX IT O f; r PUT )
l 21 THE SLUDGE IN THE PIT, AND IF THERE'S A LARGE 22 GUANTITY, EHICh THIS I S ti ' T , UE FRE(UENTLY MIX IT 23 U S I t:G BULLDOZERS. SMALLER (UkNTITIES UE MIX USING ;
I 24 A BACKh0E LUCKET.
25 JUCGE I;C Y T : A WHAT?
I
I 1
l -
426 l
l I 1 THE WITNESS: A SACKHOE BUCKET.
l l
2 JUDGE HOYT: I BELIE \'E VERY NANY 3 OF THESE QUESTIONS UERE RESPCNDED TO BEFORE.
4 h5. 5IGLER: THAT WAS hY LAST S C: UESTICN.
6 JUCGE hOYT: INCLUEING (UESTION
'i 20' E i, S . SIGLER: NOT (UESTION 20.
- 9 JUST ON THE CEMENT KILN DUST.
1 16 dbLGE hCYT: LET hE MAKE NCTE OF ,
\
11 TNIS LITH YOU. OUESTIOf' huhBER 20 DEALT WITH THE I
12 .' A! ' C E E F N T [ l' P I N G CPEEATION FOR i. A P K I t' C GF ThE
^ 9 12 BURIAL SITEr /ND THE RECORD K E E P I t'G OF THE SURIAL ,
14 SITE. AND SO IF YOUR C;UESTIONS ARE DIRECTED TO 1S ANY Or ih0SE AREAS, THAT'S FINE, BUT WE ARE NOT I
, I l 16 GOlhG TG TAKE ANY (UESTIONS ON OThER NATTERS THAT )
l '/ HAVE E: E E N COVERED ELSEUHERE.
ll LY AS. SIGLER: )
1 li Q. MS. hASILK, YOU STATED IN YOUR TESTIMONY 20 ThAT THE LICENSEE INTENUS TO NONITOR THE I 21 GROUNLLATER AhD COh0UCT PERIODIC INSPECTIONS OF l
22 THE CELLS, AND THESE INSPECTIONS WILL BE GOVERNED 23 oY bRITTEN PROCEDURES ~i 2 /_ A. ( 11 5 . W AS IL K) NO, ThEY ARE NCT. AND ThE 25 PRIMARY REASON FOR NOT HAVING THOSE URITTEN
427
, 1 PROCEDUkES IS THAT LE DO NOT hAVE A l. APPRGVED 2 PERMIT TO INSTALL AND -
! 5 Q. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THIS LASTE
, ? c.; U F I A L SITE AFTER DECOMMISSIOf;ING CF THE PLANT?
l S A. SPECIFICALLY, V! H A T ARE YOU REFERRI!G TC? -
6 C. YGUR I I; S P E C T I O N S , YOUR t'.O N I T O R I N G .
1 7 A. 1/ H A T WILL HAPPEN AT D E C O Miil S S I GN I tJ G ? THE i L 4.C h l T O M I N G CR LhATEVER IS GOING TO HAPPEt, IS GCING i !
9 TG o r_ PART OF THE DECOMNISSIONIhG THAT THE NRC IS 10 COING TO O\ERSEE, AND LE UILL COMPLY LITH THAT.
ll R. AND AFTER THE PLANT IS DECOMtilSSIONED, IS i 12 T i; E R E G0ING TG LE AN UWATTENDED LANDFILL HERE?
I 13 A. WE ARE G O I t: G TO COMPLY WITH THE NRC 14 R E F U I R EliE N T S AFTER L E C O bh l S S I Oli l N G , WHATEVER THEY
. 15 ARE. I DON'T KNCU WhAT THE NRC IS GOING TO 16 nECUIRE.
17 G. HOU LONG LILL THESE RESINS LE CONTAINED ll li4 T i; E L /, lid F I L L t 15 A. ThE RESINS ARE G0 LNG TO EE CONTAINED 114 20 T H 'd LANDFILL FOR AN I N D E F I l4 I T E PERIOD OF TIME.
i
! 21 AGAIN, I t- THE i4 R C FEELS THAT AT ThE TIME 22 OF D E C O tim I S S I Ci; I N G , O f; ANY TIME AFTER THAT I
d 23 A i> D I T I O i . A L NEASURES hAVE TO bE TAKEN, ThEY ARE 24 E N P O.'E R E D TO Rd(UIRE US TO TAKE THOSE NEASURES IF 25 i~ h E Y FEEL ThERE IS SCt'E ELEMENT OF RISK.
1 4
. . - . _ _ , . . ~ . . , _ , . . , . . _ , - _ .
428 i
1 0. ARE YOU OR IS ANYONE ELSE ON THE PANEL i
2 AWARE OF ThE PRONISE THAT LAS l. A L E IN 1970 THAT NC 3 SOLIC UASTE WCULD GE 6URIED 0 11 THIS SITE, ON THE 4 UA\lS-CESSE SITE?
- 5 A. IS THIS --
YOU ARE REFLECTING /, C,U C T E ?
6 0 1576, bHEN THE LICENSIfjG AND CONSTRUCTION i P E R iil T S LERE --
THERE WERE HEARINGS HELL --
A 14 E b YOU AUARE OF THE PR0hISE THAT UAS flA D E SY TOLEDC E ECISON THAT TNERE b0ULD BE NO EURIAL 0F SCLIC 10 WASTE ON Ti!E DAVIS-BESSE SITE?
11 11 A. YOU'RE REFERhluG TC THE QUOTE, I ASSUf.E?
12 O.
s YES, I Ah:
13 A. ThAT l, R . CELE 11REZZE -
ThAT IS AN
- 14. ACCURATE CUOTE FROM THAT H E A R I f!G .
15 h5. SIGLER: ThANK YOU. I EAVE y
16 NO FURTHER C,UESTIONS.
17 JUDGE hCYT: 1. R . LODGE?
4 11; t '. R . LOLGE: A FEW.
lS bY P. R . LOCGE:
20 .(. .-R.
. U /. L L A C E , I UCULC LIKE TO GET A V I S U /s l i
21 IDEA NERE OF THE TRUCKS THAT LILL BE TRANSPORTING 22 ThE N A T E F. I A L E k cli THE SEVEN PONDS TO THE PITS THAT
- 23 WE TALKED ASOUT Ik YOUR T E S T I t.O N Y .
14 JULGE hOYT: MR. LCDGE, LET ME l 25 STOP YOU RIGHT AT THAT POINT AMD R E ic.I N D YOU THAT l
l
4 I
429 1 ThE SUSJECT I4ATTER OF QUESTI0l; N U tiG E R 20 IS THE 2 GURIAL SITE N Ai1 AG E N E f;T D U F,I N G CPERATIOl4, FOR I
l 3 11A R K I I;G THE BURIAL SITE, AND FOR RECORD K E E P I t; G AT l
4 THE LURIAL SITE.
5 c. k . LCDGE: THAT'S CGkRECT.
l 6 dUDGE HOYT: AND YOUR CUESTIONS 7 UILL tE LIMITEL 10 THOSE AREAS.
C I;R . LODGE: I UNCERSTAND. HIS S T E S T It< O N Y C G t; T A l ls S REFEREf.CE --
10 JULGE HOYT: I WANTED TO REMINC .
11 YOU GF T ii A T .
12 EY NR. LUDCE:
13 C. LILL THE TRUCKS BE ENGAGEC Ih hEMOVIhG 14 f fs Y LATER THAT IS STANDING IN THE PREPARED BURIAL I 15 SITE BEFORE ThEY ACTUALLY START TRANSPORTING THE 16 LASTE?
17 A. (hR. WALLACE) NO, THE TRUCKS WILL NCT BE i
lE USED AS PUMPS TO P U t4 P OUT THE BURIAL SITE. UE 15 LILL USE REGULfk PUMPS FOR THAT. l i
20 I; ,s . LOCGE: WE HAVE TO LIVE l 21 UITH ThE ANSUEk; 0 0 f, ' T WE. I ASKED YOU THE URONG l
l 22 CUEST104.. j l
- e. a i.u. SIL6 ERG: BOT YOU GCT THE l l
l 24 RIGHT ANSUER. )
1 1
<. 5 dUDGE HCYT: I TRIEDr MR. LCDGE.
l
! l 1
1 430 1 BY ti R . LODGE:
l l
/ Q. WILL ThE t,ATERIAL THAT IS DISPOSED OF AT l
3 THE SURIAL SITE HAVE HIGH C Oi4 C E N T R A T I O tJ S OF \l A T E R ?
l 4 LILL IT E S S t: N T I A L L Y LE DREDGED OUT OF THE P Gli L S 1
l 5 AND TAKEN GVER TO TiiE aURIAL SITEr OR WILL UATER l
l 6 t, E REMOVED AT SOME STAGE?
I ~/ .. l. 0 , IT WILL liO T BE DREDGED.
l L Q. WhAT UILL t. G T BE DREEGEC?
1 5 A. I DON *T Kr. C U . UHAT --
f 1
{ lb ( .. S Cl' E i, A T E R I A L UILL bE VACUUNEC I l< T O T li E i
11 TkUCKS?
f le A .- T H is T IS TRUE. l l9 13 C. \i l L L THAT BE THE I4IXTURE OF SLUDGE AND I l f 14 L/TER ThAT hAS L E Ei- CISCUSSED EARLIER?
i l 15 A. THE TRUCK HAS NO WAY OF DISCERt.ING VHAT l
16 IT'S SUCKIh6 UF.
l 17 (: . SC IT LILL? THE /,i, S U E R IS YES?
l 1
l lL A. \!ILL DC UHAT? l l lb C. IT LILL C O r. T A l ti UATER, CORRECT.
20 A. C L k k .d C T .
21 C. \l I L L THE U /. T E R EE REMOVED BY SGhE PROCESS i l
22 AT THE DISFCSAL SITE?
23 A. SAhE FROCESS ThAT ThE SL UL GE V: I L L LE 24 R i l4 C V E D FRoh ThE TRUCK.
- 5 Q. OKAY. WILL THE U A T E r, l SUESErUENTLY LE l
l
431 1 R E tq u V E D , SAYr F R Oli THE LEACHAGE COLLECTION LAYER 2 If4 T ii E PITSi 3 A. NO, IT WILL DE NIXED.
4 Q. h0W UILL THE CEMENT K I L i! CUST BE hlXED S I ll T O THIS SCUPi 6 t . it . SILLEKG: I GELIEVE MR.
'i h Ei4 D R O h --
l 1
b THE WITNESS: WE JUST CO\ERED ,
9 T H A l' r I THOUGHT- THE N I X I tJ G PROCESS.
10 eY N il . LODGE:
11 C. . LUT IT WILL S I ts P L Y BE MIXED INTO THIS 12 COMPOUND OR ThlS SLURRY; IS ThAT CORRECT?
13 A. THAT*5 CORRECT. !
l 14 Q. UILL THE CREUS THAT ARE ACTUALLY HANDLING l 15 THE DISPOSAt. I I; T O THE PITS EE WEARING l \
16 P. A D I C P R O T E C T I V E GEAi; IS ThAT ItJ YOUR i
l '/ C O N T E l'.P L A T I O t. ?
! lb A. 14 0 . l r 1 10 (. ThEY t. I L L NOT. DICN'T THE FEDERAL l
20 REGISTER i; O T I C E AND I ASSUtlE TOLEDO EDISON'S j 21 .lEFKESENTATIOh TO THE NRC lis D I C A T E D THAT THEY 22 LCULL bhi j k 23 An. SILCERC: COULL YOU REFER TC I
24 A SPECIFIC LOCATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER )
25 NOTICE? -
l l
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l 432 1
1 MR. LODGE: IF YOU U0ULD GIVE 2 ME EACK l. Y G C f 0 5 E li STH I40TICEr I UOULD BE HAPPY l
3 10.
i e LY ..i k . LODGE:
5 (; . ON PAGE /_12 OF THAT OCTCCER L' T H , 1S65, C FEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE, AT THE END OF THE THIRD
. 7 C O L UtiN . IT SAYS. "COSES TO UCRKERS FRCh EXPOSURE
'l 1 L DU R I I:G THE DISPOSAL OPERATIONS UILL DE LIMITED 6 'r 4
- 1G CFh 10."
i 10 IS IT Y O u r. TESTIMONY, ThEN, THAT DOES LOT l
l 31 C Oh T EllP L A TE ANY REQUIREliENT ThAT DISPOSAL WORKERS, l
l 12 hk. LALLACEr LCULL CE ti E A K I N G F, A D I C A C T I V E O 13 PROTECTIVE GEAR?
l
! lo A. (NR. CLAnL) I LOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THAT l
lb (UESTION, IF I MIGHT, PLEASE. I C A I. RESPCND TO l
(
l 16 ThAT.
i l '/ IN A N 't ACTIVITY CCNCUCTED AT ThE j lE DAVIS-cESSE S I T ei , THE LICENSEE AND T OI. E DO EDISCN 15 IS oOUND bY ThE REGULATIONS OF 10 CFR 20. THE 1,
26 LEVEL OF ACTIVITIES INVOLVED HERE ARE SO LOU THAT 1
J
, L.1 ThE R E (: U I R E h E N T OF PROTECTIVE CLOTHING FOR 22 RADIOLOGICAL PAOTECTION PURPOSES IS NOT WARRANTED.
i 23 h0hEVuk, YOU A L O '., r THIS, EtALUATING THE t
24 SITUATIO! AT THE TIhE, I'h SURE CEklAIN PROTECTIVE i
25 C L CT h li.G UGULL LE RE(UIRED TO hERELY PROTECT GUTER l
__.-- -- - __-- - - ___ _..__ . __-.- _.- - --_.--... - --- - _ - ~.
1 l
- 433 l l
l i
l G A R l4 E N T S ; DUT FROh A RADIOLOGICAL STANDPOINT, NO.
l 2 THAT UCULD t. C T DE RE(UIREL. l l
\
3 O. T H AI.K YOU.
i
( 4 MK. EALLACE, WILL THE EACKHOE --
OR t. A Y L E 5 Nk. HENDRON'S TESTIMOMY UILL DE NECESSARY HERE --
4 6 L. I L L THE LACKh0E, F R C l'. EIThER CF YOUr UhlCh MIXES
, 1 7 UITH THE KILN DUST WITH ThE SLUDGE S T /.N D IN THE l l
b tOTTON OF THE DISPOSAL CELL AS IT IS AT bORKS? )
l i 9 A. (MR. HENDRON) I5 THE OUESTION TO NE? IS 10 ThE b C T T Ol; SCLID ENOUGh FOR IT TO STAhD Oh. 1 11 Q. NY (UESTION IS:
I 12 A. IS THAT WhERE IT LILL B E 's 13 0. YES.
14 >
. YES. THAT IS PROE/ELY WHERE IT WILL BE.
.)
15 C: . DO YOU ANTICIPATE P R O B L E l4 5 IN HARMING, i
! 16 UAhAGING THE L I t; E R S ?
1 1 17 n. UELLr I t.OULD DEFEn TO hk. U /.L L A C E ON 16 THISr / li C I ThlNK --
I REALIZE WE MAVE SAID THE i
J l 19 h0LE DETAILED IS INCLUDED IN THE D O C U t4 E is T SO FARr ,
j 20 BUT THERE IS A P L Ais . l
) 21 A. (MR. W /.L L A C E ) LE ARE GCI.G TO USE THE 1
! 22 SANE WIDE-TIRED ECUIPhENT TO PLACE THE MATERIAL l 23 !
THAT WE UCULD BE USING IN A tIXING SITUATION. ThE l 1
24 SAME r,I N D OF LOADS WOULD BE TRANSFERRED TO THE 25 BASE OF THE CELL.
i
434 :
l l
1 UE'LL PUT A PROTECTIVE LAYER GVER THE TOP 2 OF T M /s T CELL. THE PROTECTIVE LAYER LILL E. E A I l
3 TRAFFICKASLE SORT OF MATERIAL, SANDY MATERIAL OR 4 SOMETHII?G LIKE THAT, OR, Ih FACT, WE HAVE I
i 5 DISCUSSED THE POSSIEILITY OF PUTTING /s CONCRETE 6 ti U D 11 A T DOWN IN THE AREA WHERE WE INITIALLY START l 1
'i THE MIX.
6 (, IS IT YOUR CONTEMPLATION THAT ThE V A C U U tc.
9 SUCKING THE MATERIALS FROM THE HOLDING PONDS AND 10 iRANSFERING INTO THE PITS LGULD TAKE A FERIOD OF 11 DAYS, CR D0 YOU FIGURE IT WILL TAKE A LCNGEP 12 FERIOb Or TINE THAh ThAT?
O 13 A. (MR. ELAND) ADOUT TUO DAYS.
14 (; . THAT'S FROh START TO FINISH IN TERNS OF l t.
FILLING ONE CELL, RIGHT?
4 16 A. YES.
17 C. THEN IT WCULD SE CAFPED I M t4 E D I A T E L Y ?
i 16 A. 'lH A T ' S
, II;hE D I A T E ? l l
I 15 ( . UELL, HCL SCGN LCULD IT BE CAPPED?
)
, 20 A. LE WOULD START TO CAP IT JUST LIKE WE l l
21 UCULD EE EUILDING THE SIDES. I IMAGINE WE WOULD 1
22 HAVE IT CAPPED LITHIN A WEEK. l 23 Q. Fach STAhT TO FINISH, WE'RE TALKIhG ABOUT 24 /N EIGHT OR f. I N E - D A Y PROCESS?
\
l j 26 A. ExCh START TO FINISH OF '. HAT? l f
i l I i l
l
- 435 I l
1 g 1 C. FRON S T A R T I t'G TO FILL THE PIT UNTIL THE
- e. COMPLETICl, CF THE CAPPING C P E i; A T I O i! . 1 l
! 3 A. T li A T ' S APPROXIMATELY COkRECT. -
1 4 0 DO I UNDERSTAi:D THERE WCULD BE A TUO-DAY 5 UINDCU D U R I t!G UHICH TIME THE CAPPING UOULD --
THE 5 CAP LCULL NCT bE P R E S E i. T , RIGHT? '
'/ A. ( t' K . UALLACE) THE CAP UON'T bE P R E S E i-; T L U l4 T I L LE PUT IT OE.
9 O. 50 EXPOSURE TO RAIN AND POSSISLE OVERFLOW lG COULD OCCUF D U R I t!G THE TUO-DAY FILLTIME; IS ThAT l
31 CORRECT?
I 12 A. TRUE.
- O 13 A. ( l ', R . h E N D E l: C O R F ) COULD I PROVIDE AN 14 ANSUERr THAT IS THE (UESTION OF OVERTOPPihG 6Y 15 RAINFALL.
16 WE'VE GOT ABOUT /s ONE-FOOT FREEBOARD IN 17 THAT CELL R I GiiT NOh, UHICH WOULD ACCONMODATE, lb THEORETICALLY, A 12-INCH RAlt; D U P. I i; G THE ONE OR 15- TWO DAYS. AND ON TOP OF THATr THE REAL l
20 OPERATIONAL PLAl. FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS UCULD i l
21 PRCVIDE FOn SOME SORT OF bERN OR DIKING UP Oil TOP l
22 OF IT TO ASSURE OURSELVES THAT UE'VE GOT PLENTY OF ;
! 23 FREELOARD TO ti A N D L E ANY RAIN THAT UOULD OCCUR.
I !
24 Thl5 IS A TYPICAL PkOCLEM IN HASTE l
1 1
1 25 M A!! AG E t1E N T fYPES OF THINGS \lhERE YOU ARE l
i
\
l 1
436 I
O 1 2
P U T T I t;G --
YOU'RE PUTTING WASTE YOU GET UP is E /, R THE TOP, YOU HA\E TO PRO \lCE IN A CELL. CUCE IN l
3 ThAT PLAN A iiEANS T0 PRdVENT THIS OVERTOPPINCr Al; D l l
4 ThAT LILL LE DOhE.
l 5 nR. LObGE: NGThlNG FURTHEP i l 6 dUDGE HOYT: VERY WELL. THAT
't CohPLETES ALL GF THE CROSS-EXAMINATI0l; C !1 T h f.
E CIRECT PRESENTATION Or THE LICEt4SEE.
5/ ARE LE REALY TO h0VE INTO THE NEXT AREA?
10 l '. a . VAN KLEY: YESr WE ARE, YOUR l 11 h Gt: G L .
12 UULGE hGiT: LE'LL DO ThAT RIGH1 l
- O 13 A t- T E i, UE H A VE ALGUT /, FIVE-MINUTE RECESS.
i
)
14 1. R . V A i, LLEY- T h E k E- L E R E A COUPLE l 15 OF H O U S E K E E P I f"(. Tlill.G S . j 1
16 dULGE ti G i T . LE'LL CATCH T H Eli )
1 17 RIGsT A F T L i; UE RECdSS.
i lb - - -
10 (RtCESS TAKEN) 20 - - -
el JUCGE HOYT: FOR THE MONENT, WE 22 LILL DIShlSS TriE P Al.L L Fi?Oh ThEIR ASSIONED SEATS.
1 2 LET THE RECORD REFLECT ThAT ALL T h ii i
l l 24 PAhTid5 TO ThE hEARIhb hA\d AL A l f4 TAKEh THElk l l
25 PLACE IN THE lie AR II.G ROOM thD THEY --
THE WITNESS l
l
i l 437 li 1 YOU HAVE CALLED, MR. LODGE? ,
2 e. R . LOLC E: DR. G I T L I t4 .
- 3 _ _ _
l 4 CAVIC GITLIN i
5 1.' A S CALLED AS A WITNESS AND, HAVING BEEN FIRST 6 CULY S U O R i; , TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
)
- / CIRECT E X A lt li. A T I O f4 L L1 hR. L O L' G E
(- '
i DR. GITLIhr PLEASE STATE YOUR FULL i;AME t
- 10 F O .< THE ;4 E C O R D ?
i 11 A. DAVID GITLIN.
12 Q. ANL 'lH
. AT IS 't O U f' OCCUPATIGli On i
13 FRCrESSICh?
14 A. I'M A PHYSICIAN FRACTICIf1G ALLERGY I ts
- l lb rAlkVith PARK.
} l ti (: . IS 'I l i A T IN THE STATE OF OHIO?
I 17 A. YES.
l IL C. . h0h LOhG hAVE YOU BEEN LICEi! SED TO SO l
r 15 FRACTICE7
}
l 2. 0 A. SIhCE 3SS4.
5
- 21 (. WhAT ARE YOUR --
- i. EAT IS YOUR EDUCATIONAL I
f 22 CACLGNOUND, SIR?
i 23 A. I hAVL A C A C C A L /s U R E A T E DEGREE l il PHYSICS i 24 FROM C Ci; Y . MEDICAL SCHOOL WAS IN LUCELNE, I
2b SUITZERLAhL, At D FOUL YEARS OF T R A l ti l N G IN i
I t
438 1 ALLEkGY, PSYCHIATRY AND I N T E F. N A L NEDICINE.
, 2 C, . W h t,T STATES ARE YOU LICENSED TO PRACTICE 7 3 A. OHIO, C Of'NE CT I CU T /ND NEW YORK STATE.
4 ( , 00 YOU HAVE ANY D A C K G ri O U N D OR CREDENTIALS 5 IN PU6LIC SERVICE OR PUSLIC INFORMATIOt47 i O A. I'VE SEEh CONSUL TE D tiY VARIOUS 7 C O tit,U N I T I E S , STATE LEGISLATORS AND U.S.
i L C O N G R E S S lJ.E i, G t, EN\IROHNENTAL MATTERS.
5 O. hAVE YOU UEEN PRACTICING AS A PHYSICIAN 10 C0hTIhUOUSLY SINCE 1954?
l 11 A. YES.
12 C. I i,0ULD LIkE TG SHob YOU /s D O C U t', E N T THAT i
O 10 hAS t- R E V I O U S L Y SE SUPPLIED TO THE PARTIES, AND ASK 1
14 IF YOU CAh IDENTIFY ThAT, PLE/,SE? l lb A. YESr THAT'S MY TESTIh0NY FOR TODAY'S i I 16 tie E T I t:G . 1 I
i l '/ L. . A ts L THAT LAS PROVIDED Ih JUNE, 1 5. 0 6 ; IS 1 1
lb THAT CORRECT? .
l l
l! A. YES, ThAT'S RIGHT. 1 1
i i
i 20 t ', R . LODGE: YOUR HONORr AT THIS I 21 POINT, I bCULD RECUEST --
I DOh'T KNOW IF THAT l
22 NEEDS TO 6E HARKED AS AN EXhlEIT, BUT I UOULD LIKE 23 TO hAVE THAT STANC AS iik . --
DR. CITLIN'S DIRECT 24 EXAMI:!ATION T E S T II;ON : AND BE 60UND INTO THE RECORD I
25 ii I T H O U T THE NECESSITY OF READING IT.
l l
439 1 JUDGE H0YT: VERY WELL. Vi E ' L L 2 TAKE IT ANL HAVE IT B O U is D l i4 T O THE TRANSCRIPT AT l
3 THIS FOINT. IT WILL NOT HAVE TO bE MARKED AS Ah 4 EXHIBIT.
'l 5 (THE D O C U l4 E is T FOLLOUS: )
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11 12 13 !
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15 '
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23 26 l
l 25 l
l
g Tectimony to be presented to the United States of America !
, . . Nuclear Regulatory Commission before Helen F. Hoyt Administrative
-~
Judge on June 25, 1986 at Sandusky High School, Sandusky, Ohio By: David Gitlin, M.D. Westgate Medical Building, Fairview Park, Ohio 44126 i I am a practicing physician in Fairview Park, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland. I have an undergraduate degree in physics from CCNY and four years of residency in internal medicine and allergy. I am chief of the allergy section of Fairview General Hospital and have been active in proyiding testimony and expertise at various levels of government. As an allergist I have experience and theoretical knowledge of the noxious effects of environmental pollution on human health. I am therefor presenting testimony as a witness for the intervenors S.O.S. and Consumers League.
All parties are agreed that the sludge to be buried on the grounds of the plant will be radioactive with the radionuclides
] of uranium and/or plutonium decay.
Nor can there be any denial that such radionuclides will be leached into Lake Erie by action of rain and run-off.
Under such circumstances the radionuclides in question will inevitably contaminate the food and water of the millions of people living downstream.
Many of these radionuclides have half-lives of years and
- decades. This means that if the NRC finds after operation of this project that it has made a mistake it will be unable to correct the contamination that will have already occured.
It is hard to understand how the NRC could have approved this project in the first place. Nuclear waste has occupied
, j-} research for the past thirty years with as yet no satisfactory
(/ solution both as regards the containers to be used and the location for the containers.
-- -y-. .m - - - . - ,--. _ , - - -
(2)
.I It is therefor bewildering to learn that it could be considered s permissible to merely dig a shallow trench and dump radioactive A ss) sludge in it.
The fact that the sludge might be considered low level waste should not be an excuse for such irresponsible carelessness because there is no such thing as safe low level waste.
All Tionizing radiation of whatever source inevitably results in an aliquot cost in increased cancer and birth defects. This applies to background radiation as well as medical x-rays.
In the case of background adiation, we have to endure it because no protection is possit_e. In the case of medical radiation, exposure is associated Jith consent of the patient and a compensation in improved defense against disease.
But in the case of the proposed disposal of radioactive sludge there s is no necessity or public consent er benefit.
There is only Uhe inevitable toll in death and disease that will needlessly result.
The NRC should rescind its approval of the proposed sludge disposal project.
/-~
- f. c:,
O - T
-g.
l I
440 l
\
l l
l 1 JUDGE HOYT: DO YOU SUBMIT THE '
2 UITNESS FOR C R O S S - E X A l'. I N /, T I O N t, 0 5: , MR. LODGE? ;
3 14 R . LODGE: FIf4E. THANK YOU.
4 I hAVE NC F U ft T h E R (UESTICNS.
5 JUCGE HGYT: VERY Vl E L L . tR.
6 SIGLER --
I 'll SORRY, ! i ft . SILEERG.
j - - -
I b C R O S S - E X A l'.I N A T I O N S BY MR. SILBERC:
lb C.
s DR. GITLINr HAVE YOU EVER PUBLISHED Al Y l 11 ARTICLES IN TECHNICAL OR SCIENTIFIC J O U Rf' A L S ON 12 1.ADIATION CR kADIATION HEALTH? l 13 A. 1Or I HAVEN'T.
14 C. HA\E YOU E V E f1 PERFORMED ANY 15 EPIDERMALOG1 CAL STUDIES ON THE EFFECTS OF 16 RALIATIOl;?
17 A. lOTHING PU6LI$ HEC.
10 Q. HAVE YOU EVER PERFORMED ANY STUDIES ON 15 kADIATION HEALTH EFFECTS?
20 A. N O T H I t:G PUBLISHED. l l
.l C, . hAVE YOU E\ER PERFORMED UNPUELISHED l 1
22 STUDIESi l l
l 23 A. YES, I hAVE.
i 24 C; . 00 YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE S OtiE OF THCSE, l
2S PLEASE7 t
1 l
I' i l
U___.___-___.__-__-- - - - - - _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ~ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ~ - - - - - - ~ - - * ~ ~ - ' ' ~ - - - -
l l 441 j l
1 A. YES. I HAVE PREPARED REPORTS FOR NYSELF
' 1 2 AND FELLOh CITIZENS INTERESTED Ih E N V I R O N i'. E ti T /. L l l \
l 3 t/. A T T E R S CONNECTED W I Tli RACIATIOt4.
e C. DID THOSE STUDIES INCLUDE ANY ORIGINAL 313 I
h RESEARCH ON YOUk FART?
C A. 14 0 . IT WAS CONCLUSIOt; CF UCRKS IN THE i i j i FIELD, AND I4 Y CONCLUSION AS TO ThE CANGERS OF I
L kADIATION.
l l
9 (: . I SEE. ARE YOU FAhlLIAR V. I T H THE j 4
j
- 10 fATIONAL ACADEaY OF SCIENCES COMMITTEE ON THc j 11 LIOLOGICAL EFFECTS CF I G N 1 7. I N G RACIATION?
I i
l 12 A. YESr I Ah.
- O 13 (. IS ThAT GENERALLY C Oi4 S I D E R E D TO LE A 14 REPUTABLE GROUP?
15 A. IT IS A REPUTALLE GROUP, EUT THEIR 16 C O H C L U S I O tI S HAVE DEEN DISPUTED BY SOME.
17 Q. LUT ThEY REPRESENT, UOULD YOU /,6 h E E , THE 10 MAJORITY VIEW, SHALL WE SAY, O t4 THE EFFECTS OF l
ll RADIATIOt47 i
20 A. ThE hAJCRITY VIEW, OF COURSE, IS
- - /^
El C O N T A h l fi A T E D BY CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. '
/
c2 Q. DOES IT REPkESENT The AAJORITY VIEU?
! 23 A. I DON'T T h I t;K A CENSUS HAS EVER G E Eli 24 TAKEN.
j.
25 Q. I SEE. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ASKED TO SERVE e
.-_m-,,, - - . - - - _ _ , - . _ _ , - - - - - - - - - - - - . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - , . - - . - - - - - - -
]q
{e f
4(2 .I 1
"1 ONfANY COMMITTEES OF THE NAT10N'AL ACADEMY ~OF _
!- 2 ' SCIENCE?
I
, i
.i '3 A. NO. 1 i
,i l
4 Q. HAVE.YOU EV5R BEEN' ASKED TO SERVE ON.ANY. ]
l I~ 5 > COMMITTEES CONNECTED W I.T H THE-UNITED NATIONS' l
!~ 6' SCIENTIFIC CONMITTEE ON.THE EFFECTS.OF T0XIC l
7 RADIATION 7
{
^
8 A. NO, I HAVEN'T. -
f- 'S Q. IS THAT ALSO RECOGNIZED AS A REPUTABLE' ~
l .
10 ORGANIZATION?
'l 11 A. IT IS RECOGNIZED, BUT ITS CONCLUSIONS ARE' .
12 DISPUTED.
'O 13 Q. WHAT ABOUT THE CONCLUSIONS-OF~THE EPA, f- 14 ARE THEIR CONCLUSIONS ALSO DISPUTED? . l t i
~l
- .t S A. I, MYSELF, All NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THEIR. .
{
la 16 CONCLUSIONS.
l 17 Q '. HAVE YOU READ THE TESTIMONY THAT IS ,
l
(. 16' PRE'SENTED BY DR. LINNEMAN?
j 19 A. NO, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH'HIS TESTIMONY.
20 Q .- HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK ON -- HAVE YOU lf -
21 .EVER PEkFORMED ANY INDEPENDENT DOSE CALCULATIONS? 4 22 A. . NO, .I HAVEN'T.
23 l Q, HAVE YOU EVER -- ARE YOU~A GEOLOGIST GR 24 HYDROLOGIST?
- n. ..
- i. L A. N 0 ,. 1'M NOT.
(*
l . 7 l J -'-
\>
4'43 I 1 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY TRAINING IN THOSE AREAS?
2 A. YES, I STUCIED COURSES IN ThAT IN 3 COLLEGE.
4 Q. I SEE. HAVE YOU EkER ATTEMPTED TO S PERFORM ANY PATHWAY ANALYSES?
6 A. NO, I HAVEN'T.
7 Q. HAVE Y O L'- EVER PERFORMED ANY TESTS ON THE ~
b LEACHABILITY OF MATERIALS, SUCH AS THOSE I!' V O L VE D 5 IN THIS PROCEEDING?
10 A. NO PERSONAL TESTS, NO.
(
ll Q. I SEE. hAVE YOU EVER PERFORisED ANY: i i
12 RESEARCH ON THE LEACHABILITY OF Th0SE KIhDS OF 13 hATERIALS?
14 A. NO, I HAVE PERFORlqED NO PERSONAL 15 RESEARCH.
16 C. ARE YOU STATING T H /. T THE R A DI OtJ U C L I D E S 17 THAT ARE INVOLVED I .4 THE RESINS INCLUDE URANIUM ll AND P L U TO N I Ulii 15 A. NO. THEY INCLUDE THE DISINTEGRATIOH 20 PRODUCTS OF UR AN I Ut; AND PLUTONIUt,?
21 0. WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH CETWEEN NUCLEAR 22 FISSION AND RADIOACTIVE DECAY?
23 A. IN NUCLEAR FISSION, ThERE IS A MAN-MADE 24 DECOMPOSITION BY IJEUTROM D O fib AR DME N T OF URANIUM OR 25 P L U T O N I U t/. INTO S F.A L L E R /. T O M S REL'(ASIhG ENERGY IN
444 1 THE PROCESS; AND RADIOACTIVE DECAY IS SFONTANEOUS 2 A i! D TAKES t.UCh L0 TIGER.
l 3 C. . WE'RE T A L K l iw G Ab0UT RADICACTIVE CECAY? I, 4 A. UE'RE TALKING ALOUT NUCLEAR FISSION.
S Q. YOUR TESTIh0NY, WHEN IT TALKS AEGUT C
6 URANIUh. AND/OR PLUTCNIUN DECAY, IS IhCORRECT?
7 A. IT'S I; O T IrCORRECT. IT IS THE SAME
( C PRUCUCT.
L (; . I SEE. YOU HA\E JUST INDICATEL Til AT YOU l
( 1G DON'T HAVE ANY FARTICULAP EXPERTISE I li THE l
11 LEAChABILITY OF THE t.ATERIALS WE'AE TALKIhG ABOUT 12 NERE?
O li A. YCLR (.L E S T I Ol; \, A S WHEThER I DIE ANY WORK 14 ON LEACHING PERSONALLY. THAT DOESN'T hEAN I DON 'T I
t lb HAVE ANY EXPERTISE.
(
I 16 (. I SEL. HAVE YOU EVER REVIEWED AhY 17 LITERATURE ON THE LEACHABILITY OF RESINS, SUCH AS lb THOSE INVOLVED HERE?
i l t' A. IT IS ngl -
YOU NEAN, HAVE I STUDIED THE 20 LITERATURE Ois THE (UESTION?
21 Q. YES.
f 22 A. HELL, IT IS i.0 T iiECESSARY TL LE 50 23 T E Clin I C AL . ALL ONE hAS TO KhCW IS THAT IF IT 24 RAIUS AND GOES COWhhlLL, IT'S G G IliG TO TAKE THE 2S REACTIVITY WITH IT.
l l 445 l
l 1 Q. IT DOESN'T MATTER THE FOf M THE l 2 R A D I O /s CTI\lTY IS IN OR THE NATURE OF THE I
i 3 PRODUCTION THAT --
l 4 A. IT IS NOT IN A CONTAINER, AND RESINS ARE S FAMOUS FOR ELUSION AND RELEASING ThE PRODUCTS THAT 6 THEY H /. V E TEMPORA,RILY STORED ON THEIR SURFACE.
7 Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR, IN ANY CASE, WHICH U HESIHS HAVE BEEN CChbINED WITh CENEhT KILN DUST 9 THAT HAVE POLLUTED MATERIALS THAT HAVE DEEN . STORED 10 ON THEN?
l 11 A. LE'RE T A L K I I. G AUGUT RADICACTIVE ISOTOPES.
12 Q. YCU DIDN'T HEAR THE T E S T IllON Y ABOUT 13 !
hlXING THE SLUDGE AND THE R E S I I; S LITH CEMENT KILN 14 DUST 7 l l
ib A. I DID HEAR T li E T E S T I AO fi Y , YES.
l ti C. DO YOU ADVISE YOUR PATIENTS THAT THEY l
17 SHOULD A\OID ALL --
ALL THE DOSES THAT THE) CAN P I lb AVOID FROM R A D I A T I O f' ? l 19 A. YES, AS A FOLICY, IT'S A VERY GOOD ONE.
1 l \
20 0. I SEE. WHAT KIND OF A HOUSE DO YOU LIVE I l l
l 21 Ih? UHAT IS THE HOUSE SUILT GUT OF? l 22 A. PLASTER 60ARD. IT HAS BRICK FACING.
\
l 23 (; . ARE YOU FAMILIAR V: I T h THE RADIATICil l 24 CONTENT OF BRICK?
l l 25 A. IT DEPENDS F R Oli UHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY l
l l
446 l
1 IT'S P. A i; U F A C T U R E D .
l 2 Q. HAVE YOU EVER T ti r T E D ThE BRICK IN YOUR '
3 hCUSE? l e A. LGr I HAVEN'T. l 5 Q. IS IT 'r O U R GENERAL UNDERSTANDING THAT l
l l
! 6 6 RICK V.CULD HAVE --
WOULD EE MORE RADICACTIVE T H A i; l 7 UOODi I
L A. YES, ThAT'S TRUE.
1 S Q. YGU HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ALOUT SWITCHING TO l
l 10 A LCOD HOUSE NAThER THAN A ERICK HOUSE?
11 A. WELL, I HAVE. I'M F AflI L I AR WITh THE FACT 12 T i. A T ThE CRICK NAS t,0 R E RADIATION ThAN U C O E' , EUT O 13 THE A t4 0 U N T IN URICK T li A T IS C Ol4 T AtlI f4 A T E D 6Y I
j 14 L R A f. I U ti IS NOT THAT SIGNIFICAhT.
15 Q. BUT BRICK DOES HAVE MORE RADIATION T!i AN 16 UOODY l
l 17 A. IT LCES.
It C. EC YOU ARE GETTING A GREATER DOSE NOU IS THAN IF YOU HAD Ch0SEN TO LIVE It1 A WOOD HOUSE?
20 A. ThAT'S CORRECT.
14 21 (. . DO YOU ADVISE PEOPLE NOT TO FLY IN
( 22 AIRPLANES?
l 23 A. NO, I DON'T.
24 t' .
YOU ARE ALARE THAT ONE TENDS TO GET A 2s DOSE OF RADIATION WHEN ONE GOES UP A50VE THE l
1 i
1 1
447 I l
I g i EARTH'S SURFACE IT IS GREATER --
2 A. IT UCULL EE A FACTOR Ifi ThE CREW, BUT NOT '
3 THE OCCASIONAL PASSEL:GER.
4 C. ThEY DO iGT GET ANY IllCREASEL EXPCSURE; i 5 A. THEY DC, YES. j
.j C (. YCU D O ll ' T ACVISE TE El; I; O T TC TAKE THAT !
- 7 FLIGHT bECAUSE THEY GET INCREASED EXPOSURE?
L A. THE DIFFERENCE BETUEEN A PASSENGER IN AN 9 AIRPLANE AND SONEONE WHO IS PASSIVELY EXPOSED bY ,
l j 10 re A C I A T I O r, BY SCAEONE ELSE IS THAT THE PASSENGER IS I
11 DOlf4G IT VO L UtiT AR I L Y AFTER H A V I ll G DONE HIS CWh l 12 COST LENEFIT ANAL 1 SIS --
13 (. I'M JUST A S K l i!G WHETHER YOU ADVISE 14 PEOPLE --
r 15 c. k . LOLGE: OEJECTIOf;. LET THE I 16 WITNESS ANSUEP THE CUESTION.
l 17 LY l'. R . SILBERG:
I I
16 Q. PLEASE C C f T I f: U E .
, 15- A. IF S O M E Oi, E \0LUNTARILY EXPOSED HIMSELF TO i 26 A SMALL Ah0UNT OF RADIATION OF WhICH HE IS AWARE El SECAUSE OF HIS Chri DESIRE bASEL 01; hlS G u t; COST j 22 d EllE F I T ANALYSISr THAT'S ONE ThlNG; EUT IF THAT l 1 i 23 SANE P E R S Gt! IS PASSIVELY EXPOSEb TO A I.UCH GREATER 24 AMOUNT OF R A C I AT I Of2 THAT IS ENDAt:GERED TO H I V. SY 25 S O M E O f; E ELSE CY THE THIRD PARTY'S SENEFIT, THAT'S 1
m I
448 1
l 4
1 ANOTHER T h l f;G .
2 (, DO YOU ADVISE PEOPLE NOT TC EXPOSE 5 THEt4SELVES TO THAf INCREASE IN R A C I AT I Ot:?
4 A. NO, I CON'T, I I N F O R tJ. T H El. , h 0 'i; E V E R , OF 5 THE FACTS.
6 0 DO YOU I N F O R ia PEOPLE, ALL OF YOUR 7 P A T I E!!T S , OF THE RADIATION EXPOSURE THEY GET I ti L rLYING AN /, I R P L / N E i 1: A. il h E i. IT IS APPROPRIATE, IF ThEY ASK.
1G Q. Lh N IS THAT?
i 11 A. RARELY.
1 li (. LUT YOU DON *T ThINK IT*S IMPORTANT ENOUGh 13 TO ADVISE THEti E V E t2 IF THEY CON'T ASKi 14 A. THAT'E lkUE.
15 Q. ARE YOU r A i4 I L I A R THAT PEOPLE LIVING IN 1
16 CIFedRENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHO RECEIVE l
.! 17 DIFFERENT Al.O U N T S OF E A C K G r; O U N b RADIATION? l 1
l i, A. YES, THAT'S CCRRECT.
I I
li (.. AND IS ChIO ThE HIGHEST OR THE LOWEST l !
i
{ 10 LEVEL OF A 6ACKGROUND LEVEL OF RADIATION IN THE '
I J El COUhTRY ThAf YGU ARE AWARE OFi 22 A. NO.
23 ( _. T h E R t- ARE AREAS ThAT ARE LOLER?
2 e2 A. THE LCLER YOU GET TOhARCS SEA LEVEL THE i
25 LOWER E AC KG R O U t,D kADIATION.
I
l l
449 )
l i
1 Q. DO YOU KHOU WHAT THE CIFFERENCE IS?
1 A. THE DIFFEREt:CE CAN BE CONSIDERABLE.
3 C. YOU HAVEN'T THOUGHT IT IMPORTANT ENOUGh
^ TG hO\E TO AN AREA, TC SEA LEVEL 7 l 5 A. THE SAME CONNENTS APPLY.
6 C. . NO, I *ii ASKING ABOUT YOU?
7 A. YOU l.E A N , hAVE I DECIDED TO GO TO SEA E LEVEL? l is C. RIGHT.
10 A. ll E L L , ThERE ARE SO MANY OTHER FACTORS I 11 II. VO L VE D THAT I HAVEN'T GCNE TO SEA LEVEL.
12 r: . THERE'S A CGh5IDERAELE DIFFERENCE IN 1
, 13 6ACAGRCUND R A D I A T I Cl; .
l
. 14 A. THAT'S A \ O L U t!T A R Y DECISION GN hY PART. i t
l 15 Q. I'h ASKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN l
16 R A D I A T I Cl; LEVELS. CAN YOU OUANTIFY ABOUT HOW l'll C h s
17 ADDITIONAL RADIATION YOU GET LIVING IN CLEVELAND lb VERSUS LIVING Ih --
LOULD IT BE 30 MREM PER YEARr i t '
l l lb A. IT M I GliT LE THAT MUCU. l l
20 q. COULL> YGU TELL NE LhAT THE DIFFERENCE IS l
21 IN BACKGROUND RADIATION IF ONE UERE TO MOVE FROh i
22 SAY CLEVtLAhD TO D E l, V E R , COLCRADO? !
I 23 A. IT LOULD bL 1:UCh HIGHER I I; DENVER.
j
\
24 U. A h G T l! E R HUNDRED hkEh PERHAPS? l I
25 A. PERHAPS.
l
.--.._,----53,-,':'_._-_-..-.-.-
l l
450 1 ,
1 Q. hAVE YOU EVER ADVISED PEOPLE ThAT ThEY l E SMCULON'T tOVE TO PLACE LIKE D E ii V E R , COLCRADO?
l l ,
3 A. YES, I ADVISED A PHYSICIAr. WHC WAS NOVING 4 TO ThE D E N V E !' AREA t.; C U T ThE INCREASE IN 5 RADIATION. HE WAS AWARE OF THAT, SUT SAID HE
]
6 L A t. T E D TO bE NEAR HIS CHILDREN.
7 Q. ThAT UASN'T VERY IMPORTANT TO blM?
b A. APPARENTLY IT WAS LESS I t' P O R T A i; T THAt! l S B E l f!G NEAR HIS CHILDREN.
10 L_ . b E l f46 hERE RATHER THAN SEA LEVEL IS NORE l
1 11 IMPORTANT THAta SAVING 3D fREhS?
l l
12 A THAT'S TRUE. '
O 13 (. YOU EAVEN'T DONE ANY DOSE CALCULATICNS AS 4
14 TO HOU NUCH RADIATION EXPOSURE ONE MIGHT RECEIVE 15 F R Of. ThE LASTE STORED, THAT ARE PROPOSED TO bE 16 STORED AT DAVI5-EESSE SITE, HAVE YOU?
l 17 A. UELL, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT KINE OP J
16 RADIATION --
19 (,. I'n ASKING IF YOU DID Af.Y DOSE 20 CALCULATICNS?
l 21 A. NO, I HAVEN'T, h0.
22 Q. 'r O U DON'T HAVE ANY BASIS ON WHICH TO 23 CHALLENGE ThE i. U t'.G E R S THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED AND 24 THE TESTIh0NY2 i
l l l 26 A. I CERTAINLY DO DECAUSE THE -
THE AMOUNT l
l l
l l
t
! 451 l
l l
t 1 OF CURIES THAT ARE INVOLVED CAN BE CONSIDERADLE IN ,
l 2 ThIS AIND OF G P E R A T I OlJ .
i !
3 0. AND UHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF CURIES '
< INVOLVED? I I
. 5 A. IT COULD DE AS f.UCH AS S OR 10 CURIES i i
l 6 L!ITHIN A NATTER OF A F E li YEARS OR LESS.
~i C; . 50 Oh t, HAT DO YOU 5ASE THAT7 THE a T E S T I t4 0 N Y OF A NUl.B ER OF 8.5 MILLICURIES?
i A. I SASE IT Oh REPORTS ThAT HAVE CONE ;
10 THROUGH ON UHAT THIS KIND OF OPERATIOf: WOULD 11 EHTAIL AND THE AhCUNT OF CURIES THAT DAVIS-BESSE'S 4
li IS ALREADY ALLOWED TO DISCHARGE IN10 ThE LAKE.
O 13 0. LCULC Th0SE CURIES hAVE Ai. Y T H I N G TO DO l
14 WITH THE CURIES THAT t, R E IN THE SOLID WASTE? ,
l 15 A. IT HAY LE OF THE SAiE ORDER OF N A G ri l T U D E .
16 C. YOU ARE NOT A k/ A R E OF ANY STUDIES THAT 17 UOULL I I. D I C A T E THAT OR PROCESSES T H /, T WOULD ALLOU ll THATi l l 15 A. I t- THELE UERE SUCh STUDIES DONE BY THE '
i 1 20 CAVIS-bESSE PLANT, I WOULD DISCOUNT T H E I '. THAT TOO l I
21 hANY RIMES LE HAVE bEEN h l S II; F O K h E D .
22 0. ANY STUDIES THAT DISAGREE WITH YOUR 23 C ol; C L U S I Oi, UCULD LE LIASED EECAUSE OF 24 C ON F L I C T -OF -I N T E R E S T OR THINGS LIKE ThAT7 l
2b A. I DON'T HAVE A MONETARY l
452 I l
l 1 C 0 l; F L I C T -O F - I t; T E R E S T r UHEREAS THE PEOPLE WORKING )
2 FOR CAVIS-cESSE DO.
. 3 (. A t4 Y C N E ThAT GETS PAID F0h THEIR Al. A L Y S I S 4 HAS TO BE k R G t. G 't I
5 A. Ii E EAY NOT LE h P. C N G , EUT HE MAY BE 6 blASED. !
l 7 Q. ARE 100 LIASEL U H E l; YOU GIVE tEDICAL i
8 OPINIONS TO YCUR PATIENTSi 9 A. IT IS IN THEIR INTEREST AND MINE TO GIVE 10 THEL. THE CORRECT INFORMATION. I CAN BE ACCUSED OF 15 11 MALPMACTICE, i+ U T DAVIS-LESSE IS I ts h U i; E .
12 C. YOU hAVE STUDIED THE LEGAL BASIS 7 O
13 A. I LCh'T hA\E TO. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT NG 14 hUCLEAR P G i, E R P L A t4 T HAS HAD TO STAND TRIAL FOR ITS lb LIES AND E\ASIGN.
16 ( . YCU KNCL THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE READ ALL I
} 17 THE LITERATURE EVERYUHERE 1h THE WORLD?
10 /, . ALL I hAD TO DO LY ASSELSTlhE --
ANYUAYr
.i l it IN THE NEU YORK TIMESr I GELIEVE IT UAS HAY GTH OF 20 THIS YEAkr hlS T E S T I h 01: Y 'A5 ..
EXTENSIVELY QUOTED IN i 21 kiH I C l; HE SAID ThAT THERE'S TOO MUCh M I S N A N / G El.E N T 1
, 1 22 AND INCONFETELCE I I; THE tl A Y THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY 25 HAS HANLLED THE N U C L E A L . P O E E li PLANTS UNICh 24 ThEASELVES hAVE LEEN CUILlY OF h l S hAli AG El:E N T . 1 25 O. 50 UE MIGhT AGREE Tl; A T THE NRC 15 SUbdECT l
I L_ . . _ .-. .- _ ._. _ __ . __ _ _ -_ _ o
l 1
453 l
1 l
1 TO MISliANAGEhENT; BUT HAVE YOU STUDIED THE 2 OPERATI0ti CF THIS OR ANY GTHER PLANT TO D E T E R t',I fi E 3 HOW THE SOLID WASTE PROCESS 11IGHT bE AFFECTED BY l l
4 THIS ALLEGED INDUSTRY TREND? I 5 A. k. E L L , IF ONE KNOWS THAT THERE IS j o I N C G N P E T E li C E O li THE PART OF OPERATORS AND
~/ MISN/.NAGEhENT bY M Ai. AG E M EN T , YOU CAN ASSUME THERE I
O IS GOING TO EE 5 0 lie PROELEN A L 0 t. G THE WAY AS THERE '
l l
9 ALLAYS HAS b E El .
l 1C (; . YGU ASSUME R A D L A.S T E TREATMENT CENTER?
I 11 A. IT LOULD EVIDEATLY APPLYr YES.
12 li k . SILbEkG: I HAVE NO FURTHER
. O 13 r, U E S T I C N S .
14 JUDGE h0YT: ANY REDIRECT?
lb MR. LODGE: I HAVE NO REDIRECT, 16 YOUh h C i10 R ,
17 JULGE HCYT: THANK YOU, DOCTOR.
lb Mk. LUDGE: DOCTOR, PLEASE i
I l
19 LEA \E ThE ORIGINAL GF YOUR T E S T I h 0 fi Y WITH THE l l
20 COURT REPORTER..
l l 21 ER. LOLGE: AT THIS TIME WE l
22 LOULD CALL E P, . PUSSELL ts I M L E i. .
23 J U l. b E I,0 Y T : EUSSELL N. LIMLER.
O 24 - -- -
l 25 RUSSELL N. E I M i3 E R I
i l
l 454 1 UAS CALLED AS A WITNESS ANDe HAVING EEEN FIRST l 2 DULY SWORN, b /. S EXAhlNEC AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
I l
. 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION I l
4 oY hu. LCDGE:
I i 5 Q. i; R . LIABER, PLEASE STATE YOU FULL NAhE
(
i 6 FOR THE RECORD.
7 A. RUSSELL tiOkROL blMEER, b-I-M-B-E-R. I 1
b O. WhAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION OR PROFESSION, 9 SIR?
i 1L A. I 'ii A Ch El.I S T .
I 11 O. NCW, I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU WHAT HAS i '
le rREVIOUSLY 6ELN PRG\IDED TO THE PARTIES, BUT NOT O
13 THROUGH THE T E S T I tq 0 N Y P R E F I L I t:G PROCESS, A l. D ASK i
l i 14 IF 'r O U C Ali IDENTIFY THAT FOR ts E , PLEASE?
15 A. YES. THAT IS MY RESUME AS PREPARED FOR 1
l
, 16 MY EMPLOYER RECEhTLY. '
17 Q. At!C' J
IT IS ENTITLED CIRRICULUM VITAE 7 j lb A. YES.
j lb L. AND I hA\E MARKED IT S.O.S. EXHIBIT 2.
20 IN COliNECTION UITh YOUR PROFESSION -
ARE 'r O U I 21 FRESEhTLY EMPLOYECr SIR 7 1
22 A. YES.
I 25 C, . AND FOR b liO t, DO YOU 1rl O R K ?
24 A. I 's O R K FOR RICERCA, I N C O Ps P O R A T E D AS A
- .5 C H E til S T .
l t .. . - . . - - - - - . . - - _ . _ - - - - - - - - _ _ . - . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - . - - . - - - - - - - - - - - - ~
l 455 l l
l 1 C. Uli A T DO YCU DO AS A PROrESSIONAL CHEtt I S T?
2 A. I Ah / RESEARCh CHEMIST UCRKILG PRIMARILY 3 UITH PESTICIDES. FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, NY 4 E t>P L O YliE N T HAS b E El; PRIMARILY CONCERNED WITH 5 lilNIMIZING THE CONCENTRATIONS OF POLYCHLORGNATED ti O IPHEhYLS AND DICXINS IN OUR PRODUCTS.
l 7 C. ALL TOLD, k. h A T IS THE DURATION OF YOUR L CAREER AS A ChEhIST, PLEASE?
l 9 A. I HAVE GEEN EMPLOYED BY THE SAME EMPLOYEk 10 ALThCUGH U i; D E R FOUR DIFFEREET CORPORATE NAMES, FOR 11- THE PAST 54 YEARS.
12 (; . AhD Its THE COURSE OF CAREER, HAVE YOU l I.
l I
13 bEEh IhVOLVED DIRECTLY OR JOINTLY, S l i;G L E L Y OR
)
14 JOlhTLY, IN ThE P A T E l. T I N G OF ANY CHEMICALS 7 \
l la A. YES. I HAVE 25 U.S. PATENTS TO HY 16 CREDIT. THREE OF THEM TEAT HAVE G E El; PRACTICED l
! 17 blTH CONNELCIAL VALUE. i l
10 C. i. G P , YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY PREFILED YOUR 19 -
TESTIMONY O t: JUNE 13, 1965; IS THAT CORRECTi 20 a. YES.
i 21 f. . AhD IT IS hY UNDERSTANCliJG THAT YOU UISH 1
l 22 TO uEAD ONLY l' PORTICH OF THAT FOR THE RECORD, BUT l 23 S ubi. I T THL LEST AS IT STANDS FGk THE RECORD AND TC
{ 24 MAKE A ci IE F ADDIFIONAL ADDENDUN; IS THAT CORRECT 7
)
- 25 A. YES. l i
i k ,
i i
! 456 j
i l
1 Q. WILL )OU PLEASE DO SC?
2 A. ThALK YOU. "I Al, AL M.S. RESEAKCH 3 CHEMIST UITH l i O F. S T H A fi 35-YEARS EXPERIENCE IG THE
)
e ChEhlCAL INUUbTRY, I h C L U E I t.G 00RK WITH ION i e i 5 E X C h A t: G E R t S I t! S A l4 D W I Tli RADIOISOTOPE LADELED i
6 PESTICILES AND ThEIR NIGRATI0il blTh GROUNDUATER.
7 AS A PART-TIME V O L Uf! T E E R WORKING UITH LAKE COUNTY j i COVERNNENT SINCE 1573r A i. D CRIEFLY AS A PAID i
4 S CONSULTANT TO PRC VORHEES, I MELPED WRITE THE L /s K E 5
i lL COUITY HADIATIOh ENERGENCY P L Al; FOR RESPONSE TO
, 11 ACCIDENTS AT THE PERR) NUCLEAR PCUER PLANT.
Il "I h A \'E ALSO bEth T Fi A I N E u AS L/ L ICLOG I C AL 1
O 13 0FFICER TO AID THE COUNTY HEALTH DISTRICT I fi SUCh i
j 14 t; E S P UI. S E .
It "I CLill hY O b l. liGNE AT 10471 PROUTY j 16 ROAD, PAINESVILLE, OHIO, 44077 I t' 1S53. hob IT IS 1
1 17 LIThlh THE T E l; i. I L E EVACUATIOh Z o ll E OF THE P ii r, R Y l
1L tiUCLEAR POLER PLANT, WHICil IS OPERATED GY ThE l
j 19 CLEVELAht- E L E C T r. I C ILLUNILATING COhPANY, OR I
20 PERhAPS I Sh00LD SAY C.E.I. C.E.I. EAS T il E 4
l El hAJCRITY C L h E li AhD CO-LICENSEE OF DA\IS-LESSER i
22 E V E f; L ti F O R E IT d o lliE L TOLEDO EDISCN TO FORM
(
! 23 C El. T E R I G k .
! 24 "AhY ON-SITE LASTE DISPOSAL ALLOWEL AT i.
i j 25 DAVIS-LESSE SEEMS LIKELY AT PERRY. I, OR A MEhLEL f
\
L _.
~-- - - _ - ---- ..- - - - - - - - - - _ . __ _ - - - _ _ _ - - - . -
)
i I
457 l
}
i
- 1 Or NY F Alil L Y NAY DIE F R 0ti RADICACTIVE FOLLUTI0N I
. FRCN vA\IS-cESSE OR PERNY bECAUSE OUR H G U S E li G L O l I
i 3 UATER C Ol' E 5 F R Oi. THROUGH PAINESVILLE UATER CITY 4 S Y S T El. F R 0 ts L /. K E E i. I E . This bATER IS ALSO USE0 C li i 5 OUR LfhGE VEGETAGLE GARDEN. I ti ADDITICI:, UE EAT C 6 F I SI. AT LEAST 0 f. C E A L E h t. AND l 'i A U Y 0F ThEN CottE e
'i APPR0 VAL Or Th1S RADUASTE SITL F i. 0 H L /. K E LRIE.
L \ CULL Ii.C R E / S E RACICACTIVE cot.TAhlNATION Oe CUR b FOLD.
1L " / P P P. L V A L OF TOLLDO EDIS0h'b D U tiF MAY
,f Il hAVd ITS ItA X I N U n I I. e /, C T Ih THE FikST LECADE A F T E F.
I le li 15 S Cii L L U L E i. TO CL R E L F.A S E L, PGE Uhf.ESTRICTLD
! la USL, e n i. h A P S THlhTY TO FIFTY YEAR $ FROM f: 0 U . I UO
! 14 hCT L / l. T /hY0NL II. J U R L 0 GR KILLEL EY ,
j16
)b L ADI U/ CT I \ I T Y , rise OR T0XIC hAZ/RL5 FRCt 16 LAVIS-LESSL'S GADIOACTIVE RESINS.
l 'i " G El. L R / T i b i. S YET U I.0 0 N N C /. h t. G T POSSIblY i
lb S r E A i. HERE lofAY. LE UANT TO PASS ON A I;0 R L j lb LIVALLE L 0 i; L U TO T h Eli . b t' A $ t. JUbCE hoYT TO l 26 R E 5 C l h is ThL 1
04!-S 1 1. WASTL DIbFOSAL e E Rill T A ti D / O k ;
l 21 ThL / U \ A t4 C . /,e r u G \ A L LF ktLLASE 0F ThL DUttF SITE 21 F t r. UNRLSTRIClEL USE Al ThE T l i.l. OF 23 u L C L l.a. l b b ! L t. l i L . (hl L I C d L L E. E L l. A Y SAY THE 2 t. L i b i ; ( ~ /. l . D - A - h /, L F i. l L L I C U k l E S IN A FIVk-YEAH I
- . b /, C C U I, b l /1 10 t. OF Tli l 5 L/STE ~~"
\
458 i
j 1 MR. SILGERG: EXCUSE hE?
, L ThE UITNESS: I ' ii SKIFFING A l
i 3 COUFLE PORTIONS hERE. "THE LICENSEES MAY SAY T li h i
j 4 E I G h T - A N C H A L F hlLLICURIES Ai; D A Fl\E-YEAR i
S A C C Uli U L A T I O f. OF THIS LASTE IS ONLY 8.5 T h 0 U S f.l: D T H S l 6 U r- A CURIE, LUT /. CURIE IS AN E N C R I.0 U S , I .i R A T 1 0 t.A L i
! ~/ U i; I T ; 37 UILLION NUCLEAR DISINTEGRATION 5 PER i
) L b l C G i; U . ThE N E ). S.I. S Y S T Ei. OF M E A S U R E l;E l: T FAVCkS l
- /- N0i E RATIONAL U ti ! T , THE BECCUEREL, Wh!CH IS GNE I
l 'L b l S il.T E L i A T I U r, FEk SEC0ND.
1
{ 11 "THE U.S MILLICURIES ESTIMATED TO BE IN l
12 EACh FIFTh Y E i. R O f E L G I t4 G IS ECLAL TU Ll5 MILLIOi:
!O i 13 bECrUERELS U ti l C H IS 315 li l L L I 0li '0NIZINC i
- l li ,, A D I A T I O l S , Gd 1.15 MILLION F 0 l b t. T I A L L Y C Ai! C E R lb C A U S li:C LULLETS F E i' SECOND. )
i 10 "IT ShCULL T A i;E N il. E T E b i; t.ILLION (4 A C H I N E
}
17 G U .i S F I b 11. 6 1,000 ROUNDS A h i t:U T E TO SH00T AS I
l 3L rAbl. f, . b hlLLICURIES LCES FieESENT A SERIOUS l I la lie A L T H I;AZARD FOR / L Ui.6 T i lie .
i l .O "THL FINAL Eli\ I R O N hE N T A L S T A Y u t4 E N T i
al C O N S T I: U C T I O N SAYS (NY ACCIDENT UITN LOU LEVEL l .: /
D R Ul.hl b i! A S T E ).00LD NOT UL EXPECTLD TO RESULT IN I j LL G IGh ! P I C Ait f L X P 0 b u .",L O t- P E R S L TIN E L . TNAT'S AT PAGE e4 i-L, SELYIUN i.L.J.
it " i ~ C \, , TGLLLC LDIS0h APPEARS TO LE 1
1
.n--...-.,_._ _ _ - - - --- - -
Y
! l 459 l l
l I
i
- 1 CONTRADICTING ITSELF BY REQUESTING P ERtil S S I ON TO )
i I 2 AVOID C R U tK t . I . , 6 ThE hASTEr ANC TO D U ts P IT ONSITE TO 3 MINIMIZP EXPOSURES TO THEIR PERSONNEL. THIS SEEMS l 1
4 TO DE AN A D P. I S S I 0 t. T li A T E.5 MILLICURIES CAN HURT I 5 PEOPLE. THE RECUEST SHOULD I4 0 T UE G R /. N T E D . '
6 " f!U C L E AR LCRKERS ARE EXPECTED TO TOLERATE 7 tic R E EXPUSURE THAN UTHEx PEOPLE. DESIDESr THEY l L SHOULL LL LETTER I N F o n i.E D t, t, L E C,U I P P E D TO h l fi l li l Z E S LOTH THE INTENSITY AND DURATIOt! OF THEIR 10 EXFOSURES." .
l 11 A li D T h EI. , I LOULD RE(UEST THAT THE 12 COMPLETE STATEMEilT SE INCORPORATED INTO ThE RECORL i 13 AS ThCUGH I hAC READ IT ALL. I JUST FELT FOR l
14 THOSE UHO WILL NOT RECEIVE COPIES, I SHOULD kEAD 1L S Ol.E OF THE l.C R E E I G t ' I t; I C A N T PORTIONS.
16 t i i; . LODGE: THAT IS OUR l
17 REfUEST.
, Il JULLE hOYT: VERY WELL. UE LILL l
4
( lb 0 1ND T !! E S T A T EliEf4 f INTO THE RECORD AT THIS POINT 1
i 20 AS IF IT HAL L E Ei4 HEAD. HOUEkER, LET l.E CORLECT 1 l
21 ONE T H I f:b . YOU ti A Y PROVICE COPIES GF THIS
- l. ;
l 22 T E S T I ti O N Y IF YOU Ulbh TO AivY MEl1LERS OF THE PUBLIC t
e3 Thal /RE li E k L .
l 24 (ThE L O C U l'.E i. T FGLLChE: )
l 25 l
i
-. _ - _m .a-_j . - _ _ . . . . m -_ ,m _ _ _ .- . _ . _ - . _ _ . __ m _ . _ ___________
~ "
- ( F 1 l l l l Testimony of R. M. Bimber, Chemist, June 13,1986 j prepared for the Davis-Eesse Onsite Radwaste Disposal Hearing,
! U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Docket No. 50-346-ML, Atomic Safety Licensing Board Panel No. 86-525-01-ML Testimony of R. M. Bimber:
i My timely, written request to participate in this hearing was j rejected. I thank the other intervenors for giving me this chance to testify. I will respond to most of the twenty concerns j in Judge Hoyt's Order of May 29th, but first I should tell you
)
who I am, and why I'm here.
1 j .I am an MS research chemist with more than thirty-five years experience in the chemical industry, including work with ion
- exchange resins, and with radioisotope labelled pesticides, and
(
their migration with groundwater. A a part time volunteer working with Lake County government since 1973, and briefly as a paid j consultant to PRC Voorhees, I helped write the Lake County i Radiation Emergency Plan for response to accidents at the Perry Nuclear Power Plant. I have also been trained as Radiological Officer to aid tne County Health District in such response.
1
- I built my own home at 10471 Prouty Road, Painesville, Ohio 44077, i in 1953. Now it is within the ten mile evacuation zone of the
! Perry Nuclear Power Plant, which is operated by the Cleveland
! Electric Illuminating Company. CEI was the majority owner and co-licensee of Davis-Eesse, even before it joined Toledo Edison to l
] form Centerior. Any onsite waste disposal allowed at Davis-Besse !
3 j seems likely at Perry.
l I, or a member of my family, may die from radioactive pollution from Davi s-Besse , or Perry, because our household water comes through the Painesville City system from Lake Erie. This water is
} also used on our large vegetable garden. In addition, we eat fish at least once a week, and many of them come from Lake Erie.
Approval of this radweste site would increase radioactive I contamination of our food.
l Approval of Toledo Edison's dump may have its maximum impact in 1 the first decade after it is scheduled to be released for l unrestricted use, perhaps thirty to fifty years from now. I do
] not want anyone injured or killed by radioactivity, fire, or toxic ha:ards from Davis-Besse's radioactive resins. Generations yet i unborn cannot possibly speak here today. We want to pass on a more l liveable world to them. ;
t 1 We ask Judge Hoyt to rescind the onsite waste disposal permit, and/or the advance approval of release of the dumpsite for unrestricted use at the time of decommissioning.
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i J
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R Judge Hoyt's twenty concerns and our responses follow:
- 1. What final locaticn on the Davis-Besse site has been selected for waste burial?
We wish to introduce the Final Environmental Statement related to the Construction of Davi s-Besse (USAEC, 1973) into the Hearing File. On pages 3-24 and 3-26, Section 3.4.3 says all solid radioactive wastes will be packaged and shipped offsite for burial. Doesn't this represent a pledge by the licensees and the NRC that sclid radioective wastes will be handled that way?
It seems clear to us that no onsite burial should be permitted.
Davis-Besse is already allowed to dump 30C0 times as much, ie,
') 5 Curies / year, of radioisotopes similar to those in the resins we are concerned with, directly into Lake Erie (FES-construction, N page 3-21). Now it wants to change the conditions of its h construction permit, so it can dump solid radioactive waste near F the Plant, and contaminate Lake Erie even more.
The Licensees may say the 8.5 millicuries in a five year f accumulation of this waste is only 8.5 thousandths of a Curie.
But a Curie is an enormous, irrational units 37 billion nuclear disintegrations per second! The new SI system of measurement favors a more rational unit, the Becquerel, which is one disintegration per second. The 8.5 mil 11 curies estimated to be
[^}
(_ '
in which each 5th year is dredging is equal to 315 million ionizing radiations, 315 million Becquerels, or 315 million potentially cancer-causing bullets, per second. It would take 19 million machine guns firing 1000 rounds a minute to shoot as fast!
8.5 millicuries does present a serious health hazard, for a long time.
The FES-construction says any accident with low-level drummed waste would not be expected to result in significant exposure of personnel (page 7-9, Section 7.2.3). Now Toledo Edison appears to be contradicting itself by requesting permission to avoid drumming the waste, and to dump it onsite to minimize exposures to their personnel. This seems to be an admission that 8.5 f millicuries can hurt people! The request should not be granted.
Nuclear workers are expected to tolerate more exposure than other people. Besides, they should be better informed and equipped to minimi:e both the intensity and duration of their exposures.
2.-9. represent information the licensees should have been required to provide before the NRC acted on their request. I'll comment on the 5th, then skip to the 10ta.
- 5. What soil erosion from storms has been actually observed at or near the site?
fS We believe the words "from storms" unduly limit this question,
( / and respectfully request that Judge Hoyt consider deleting them.
Gradual erosion from wind, water, frost heaving, or whatever,
3:
i j
() should be cause for concern.
reveal the Also, erosion history future because ion exchange resins are smooth round particles, less dense than soil, and subject to frost heaving if not buried below the frostline depth.
may not generally They are more l
. easily eroded than normal soil.
1 10. & 11. appear to be asking for an estimate of the most probable values, corresponding to the maximum values sought in
! similar questions 13 & 14. We believe only the maximums have j regulatory significance, so have combined our responses.
I
- 12. What criteria will be used to decide whether resins will be i buried on site or transported to a licensed burial site in the l event that resins become contaminated at higher than expected i levels?
l 1 We congratulate the Judge for recogni:ing that a license without limits is a farce! There must be some contamination level, above
] which the resir.s must be packaged and stored for offsite disposal. l j No such limit has been set. But, " Dilution is not the solution to
) pollution," even though Davis-Besse has taken this approach in
- the settling basins. Perhaps 8.5 mil 11 curies and 34000 cubic feet ;
I should be applied as individual l i mi ts , to minimi:e the volume of waste. That is, there should be three limits: a maximum amount of radioactivity to be contained in a given volume, total activity, and total volume.
}
O 13. What is the upper limit of radionuclide inventory which could exist on site after 30 years under the above criteria?
L 4
L j Since the Permit has already been granted, the NRC should be j telling the Polluter, not asking! Based on the Federal Register j of Oct. 9, 1985, a limit of B.5 mil 11 curies should be stated in the Permit. The actual inventory may exceed any limit in the
! permit because of undetected excursions, errors in sampling or I measurement, or judgement, plus equipment failures, etc. And j employees may deliberately exceed limits to benefit their employer j because it is what their boss wants, or seems to want. (Remember
- the example of overpriced aircraft turbine blades at TRW?) No i more than a specified amount of error, p e r h a p s 2 5'/. , should be I
tolerated. Limits were imposed on both the volume and the -
of sandblasting wastes to be buried at the Oconee '
f acti vi ty j Nuclear Plant, as described in the Oct. 23, 1985 Federal !
j Register, 50 FR 43043-5. Limits are needed here.
1 j lt is hard to estimate the volume, and to determine the -
J radioactivity of a sludge which is not uniform over the bottom j of a settling basi n. Also, the first accumulation of resins may ,
! not be typical. The plant has operated sporadically, far below l design, so resins have accumulated slowly, giving more time for t i radioactive decay and leaching from the settling basins. More j r~g stress corrosion is likely as the reactor ages under neutron
- g_ ,/ bombardment. Judge Hoyt might ask whether the Licensee accepts 7 j the volume and activity in the Oct. 9, 1985 Federal Register as l 1
)
Y limits on its Fermit (50 Fr 41265-7). If not, any higher limits they agree to should be used to estimate radiation exposures, and lll to reconsider the Permit.
14 What is the estimated upper limit of dose to the whole body for an individual standing on the burial site that could exist after 30 years under the above criteria'.
Perhaps the part of the Question after the word " individual" should be replaced by, "from the dump after it is released for other use?". The number of periodic buri al s envisioned is not an exact number, nor is the time of closure. If the dump were to be promptly released for unreutricted use, it might be excavated, regraded, or disturbed in other ways which could effect exposures.
It seems necessary to assume no excavation of the site to estimate the dose limit. Deed restrictions to prevent this do not appear to have been considered. Nor does deeper earth cover over the last buriali it might reduce the upper limit of dose, and reduce the time interval required before other use, considerably.
If the land may be released, for unrestricted use, it becomes necessary to consider the possibility of peoplo sleeping on the ground, perhaps even digging a " foxhole" for warmth in cold weather. The duration of such exposures might amount to half-time for three months per year for Scoutleaders, for example.
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('
The largest exposures might occur to people living in a home built in the most recent waste, with regrading to unknowingly manimi:e the radiation exposure. These poor souls might also drink and bathe in well water from a shallow well, and eat home-grown produce and fish caught nearby. In this case, It might be necessary to conrider the radioactivity in the total thickness of the waste, not just the top 10 centimeters, and full time, 0766 hour0.00887 days <br />0.213 hours <br />0.00127 weeks <br />2.91463e-4 months <br /> per year exposures, not just the 100 hours0.00116 days <br />0.0278 hours <br />1.653439e-4 weeks <br />3.805e-5 months <br /> per year considered by the Licensee (Table 1 of 50 FR 41266, Oct. 9, 1985).
The estimate in the Federal Register Notice was a gross underestimate, for many reasons, which I will explain The radioactivity in more than a 10 centimeter (4") thiciness of waste should be used in estimating the cose, for several reasons:
a) All the isotopes in Table I of the Federal Register notice emit highly penetrating gamma radiation.
b) Ion exchange and groundwater movement may concentrate radioisotopes on the surface.*
c) The maximum thickness of the batches of wastes does not appear to be on record. When acted for this data, Richard Crouse, Vice President, Nuclear, of Toledo Edison, gave the minimum thickness as 2 to 5 feet, and said any thickness over one foot would not increase exposures (letter Serial No. 1065, dated July 30, 7y 1984, at Attachment 1, page 3, fourth paragraph, line l
(- 4). That is not true, because gamma radiation is very penetrating, and because of migration of radioisotopes l
i
dI to the surface, which will be explained shortly.
O d) There does nct appear to be anything wastes being buried in a deep hole, to prevent the and subsequent burials placed on top of each preceding one, --like a stack of pancakes. Could there be any other reason for so thin a covering over each burial?
- "b" may require explanation: The June 1986 National Geographic.
pages 818-822 and 833, tells of using potassium fertili:ers or seawater to displace radioactive cesium from Bikini Atoll.
Similarly, fertilizer used to establish turf or minerals in groundwater moving through the Davi s-Eesse Dump can displace cesium. During dry periods, water can be drawn from great depths, evaporated, and the -assorted radioisotopes- left behind as dust. The process is known as efflorescence. It can apply to all the radioisotcpes on the resin. The most familiar example may be deposits on masonry. It has been known to move water soluble degradation products of pesticides from depths below four feet to the surface, and leave normally crystalline materials as fine dust. At the Davis-Besse Dump, this could greatly increase the radiation ha:ard, and also present a lung hazard, both of which seem tc have been overlooked.)
Since the nuclear industry likes to make any errors in the direction of increased safety, we should assume all the activity in a five foot (possible minimum) or greater thickness of waste is g' concentrated at the surface, as loose dust which might be inhaled
(_ ]/ by children playing in the dirt on this (soon to be) unrestricted area.
If the site is ever to be released for unrestricted use, exposures of 100 hours0.00116 days <br />0.0278 hours <br />1.653439e-4 weeks <br />3.805e-5 months <br /> / year are ridiculous! Full time is 8766 hours0.101 days <br />2.435 hours <br />0.0145 weeks <br />0.00334 months <br /> / year.
It may be of some interest that the USEPA has assumed authorities will maintain active institutional control of even low-level radioactive waste disposal sites for 100 years after their closure; see 48 FR 39563, August 31, 1983. Unless there are deed restrictions on the site, --- for example, to prevent subdivision, excavation, or residential use, full time radiation exposures of 8766 hr/yr should be assured.
The Licensee's estimate cf 8.5 mil 11 curies, and the resulting exposures may be low, but merely correcting two of their assumptions shows the exposures would be unacceptable. Their estimated annual dose of 0.7 millirem should be multiplied by 15.2 to allow for the greater thickness of waste (5 feet is 152 cm, not 10 cm), and by 87.66 to allow for full time exposure, instead of Just 100 hours0.00116 days <br />0.0278 hours <br />1.653439e-4 weeks <br />3.805e-5 months <br /> per year. This corrects the estimated exposures to 933 millirems / year. The Licensees claimed to have met an acceptance criteria of 1 mr/yr. They cannot even meet the 25 mr/yr limit for the entire r adioactive waste management incustry (Federal Register for 9/19/85, which cites 40 CFR 191.03). Any
,s, thought of unrestricted use of the Dump, without a preliminary f}
radiation survey, should be squelched'
6 15.-19. These are good questic9s, which the Licensee should have llh been asked before the permit was granted. We suggest following related questions which Judge Hoyt may want to ask:
the a) Does the supposedly nonradioactive, major portion of the waste going into the settling basins contain small enough amounts of toxic heavy metals to pass tne USEPA "EP Toxicity Test" (46 FR 35247, July 7, 1981)? (The licensees could be evading USEPA requirements by mixing it with a waste regulated by another agency.)
b) Are the resins, or other components of the total waste, flammable? (The resins are usually modified polystyrenes, and may present a serious, unrealized fire hazard if not mixed with incombustible material.)
- 20. Describe the Licensees plans for site management during operation, for marking the burial site, and for recordkeeping at the burial site.
We believe it is desirable to impose deed restrictions on the dump site. We suggest it should not be subdivided, excavated, or used for residential purposes unless it is first surveyed for residual radiation and cleared by the appropriate health authorities. Such a survey might confirm the expected leaching away from the site.
It might also reveal problems in the form of unexpected kinds or
(\_
)
amounts of radioisotopes; NRC is considering adding 500 more radicisotopes to those it already regulates (51 FR 1119, January 9, 1986).
We remind the Judge that the FES-Construction says the applicant will have to comply with whatever regulations are in effect at the time of decommissioning (page 8-10, Section 8.3.1). The NRC was in error when it granted permission for release of the dump site for unrestricted future use (50 FR 41267, column 1, paragraph (1)).
We do not believe the Licensees requested such permission, or would have expected to receive it, if they had.
The NRC recently renewed its request for the USEPA to take the lead in the area of developing guidelines for unrestricted release and possible use of lands, facilities, equipment and materials having residual contamination (NRC News Release 86-27, dated March 14, 1986). EPA is preparing to assume jurisdiction; see 51FR14558, item 2690 (April 21, 1986).
M w/. O !
Russell M. Bimber cc Charles Barth, Esquire l Docketing & Service Branch l Jay E. Silberg, PC
/~ State of Ohio (N)
~
Toledo Coalition Western Reserve Alliance i
l
i 460 ,
l l
l l
1 1 I '. R . LODGE: YOUR HONOR, HE MAD l 2 OhE SUPPLEhENTAL SERIES CF CONhENTS hE V/NTED TO 3 fi A K E .
4 ThE 1. I T i. E S S : AS A RESULT OF i S YESTERDAY'S HEARl!<C, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THE 6 F O L L 0 t! I N G :
- i. 7 h it . 5ILbERG: IS THIS IN THE l
b f. A T U R E OF REBUTTAL TESTIh0NY, OR MORE DIRECT?
JUCGE h0Yi: I D o ll ' T KN0h, I 10 h A V El; ' T SEEN IT. l
)
11 Hk. SIL5 ERG: I h A t El' ' T EIThER. l i
li JULGE HOYT: LET'S Go OFF THE i
13 R E C Ott L A L O I , E iN T HEhE.
14 - - -
a lb (Of-F THE R E C 0 R Er . )
i 16 - - - l i
17 JUbbE liG Y T : I THINE Til l S IS l 16 RE6UTTAL T E S T I M 0i; Y . l f !
l 15 i-; k . SILbERG: IF IT IS, I HAVE NG 1
{ 20 ObdECTICL TO IT C 0i; 1 h G I l! Nob OECAUSE THE WITNESS 1
21 IS 1.E R E . )
I
! 2 ." UULGE hGYT: li E ' S N0T G O ! !? G TO i I
! 23 LEAVE. )
I l
- . /, h i; . LGCGE: hE h Cl> ' T bE '
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25 AVAILAULL T C f.O K R O W , Th0LGh.
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461 1 MR. SILUERG: HE WILL DE AROUND 2 THE REST OF TOLAY.
3 tl U D G E HOYT: U H /; T UAS YOUR 4 CONNENT? SHOULD THIS BE ON THE RECORD?
i 5 hR. VAN KLEY: IT LOESN'T REALLY 6 MATTER. IT'S /, P R O C E D U R /.L MATTER.
'/ JUCGE h0YT: DDRING ThE OFF l
6 RECORC TIME I E X A l4 I N E D THE TESTINCNY T I. A T THE l
i iITNESS W A ti T S TO DIVE AT THIS T I tc c , IN ADDITION TG l 10 HIS PREFILED TESTINONY. YOU HAVE A CONMENT?
I 11 e;R. V A fi KLEY: YES, I DO. I T H I li K 12 Ii FR0btblY SHOULD DE RAISEL hERE SINCE UE HAVE A 13 5IhlLAh S I T U /, T I O re U I T l; I; R . LIMCEk, ;
14 T ii E R E ARE CERTAIN tiATTERS, OF CCUESE, l I
l 15 L t : E i-; TCLELO E C I S 0t; ' S PREFILEO T E S T it4 G N Y AhD THEY 16 RECEIVE O U i,5 , THEHE ARE T ii l te G S IN Til A T DIRECT 17 T E S T I I-^.C N Y hhlCh AkE NCT 'A N T I C I P A T E li DY T li E
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1 4
lb FRJFILtD T E S T I I.Ci; Y b i; I C H CROSS IN T il E MAIL. In <
I
. JS OTHER LCRLb, AS S0CE A5 V: E hAVE RECEIVED TOLEDO 1 '
l I
l 26 E C I S O F. ' S t' REFILED TESTIMONY --
l i
- /l JUDGE hCYT
- YOU N E A t' YOU hAVE
) 22 TESTIMGNY U T fi E R Tiit-l' UHAT UAS CONTAINED IN T il E i i !
23 enEtILEE T d S T Ililt; Y IN Tii E S E LLUF L O Ul.L --
I l
2, t.n. VAN KLEY WhAi I'i, LEALING TO I
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25 15: UE HASE HEAhD TOLEDO EDISCN'S T E S T I t.Gli Y IN l i
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462 1
1 DIRECT, THEIR DIRECT T E S T i t.Cli Y . A l; D THERE Akb i
E HATTERS IN THAT LIRECT T E S T I f4 0 t: Y LUICh L E: R E i. 0 T l 3 ADDRESSED I i; OUR DIRECT T E S T I h 0 ii Y LECAUSE WE DID l
4 f: C T SEE EEFORE WE FILED OURS.
5 JUDGE H0YT: THAT'S REASON TO j 6 Pno\IDE AN GPPORTUt41TY FOR REBUTTAL.
7 I : il . V Aid KLEY: I h Al; T E D TO MAKE 1
j L SURE lHAT LAS GRAY. !
l
! 9 dUL6E t01T: C l! E S WE HAKE A i 10 i( U L i l: C, THAT'S IT. i 11 h tt . VAh KLEY: 50 UE bCULD EE ALLE 12 TO, ' h E l'
,. LE DO OUR DinECT T E S T I F,C t,Y , WE WILL LE i 13 AoLE TO --
l 1( dC0GE liC Y T : PROCEDURALLY, I 4
15 UON'T SEE THAT iCU hAVE A P R OL L Eti , COUNSLLOR.
16 hd. V t. h KLEY: T H Ai. K YOU. '
(
i 17 JUDGE h0YT: /LL RIGHT. MR.
t 1b alhbER, IF YGU ARE GCING TO ti E ABSEhT AhD TH1S IS i
j 15 RELUTTAL T E S T ! 1. O N Y G I V E t; l l .' RESPONSE TO THE l I j l
20 'l L S i l l,0 N Y YOU h l A i< D FRoh ThE PANEL OF \lITNESSES O ti '
i 21 D I R E C I' E ;; A M If? A T I O N OF THE L I C Ei; S E E --
I 22 THL UIThESS: RICHT. l 1
l 23 JLOGL hoYT: \EuY UELL, PROCEED. l r
l
.: 6 T 1. E LIThEES: 1 A G l: E L ThAT A
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2b POLYNLRIC SlRUCTURE OF THE R E S i l4 5 15 VERY
. ~ . - . .
l ;
i 463 I
T I
I i 1 RESISTANT TO D E G R A D A T I ol: . THIS SUGGESTS THEIR I i
- . IONS E X C h A t4 G L CAFALILITY hlLL PERSIST I ti THE l17
- 5 E t;\ I R Cl;E E N T POR A LCNG T I tie LIKE DICXIh. LE 4 A R E ts 'T S U;& E Uti AT THOSE ION E X C H / t:G E EFFECTS NAY EE
( t l L buT THE POR ARTICLE CN ( U E S T R /. N SUGGESTS TH/T IT
! 6 HAY Ii. C L U D E IhDUCTION OF CANCER IN EUNANS.
1 l l
i IT iS /s POLYhUCLEAh AROLATIC HYDROCAREON i
I '
C / i. D EXPECTED TO LE VEkY PERSISTENT IN THE r
9 EhVIRONNEhT LIKE P.C.L.'S AND DIOXIN. ;
1
) 10 I RECOMMEND INCINERATION TC LESTROY TiiE J i
) !
l 11 R E S li; S A t, L> 1 H E F. E b Y AVGIb THE POSSIBLE FUTURE 12 L I A L I L I T 't WhlCh h /s S PLAGUED THE CHLORINATED O 13 U R C /. N I C Cl;E N I C A L IhDUSThi. THE UTILITY'S LtCK 0F l I l
- -r I j ]4 F C i! E S I G H T IN D I L U T I I
- G THE R E G I f! UITH ,
i i
! 1 :; h Ol: - C 0 h l U S T I L L E LATEklAL HAS NADE TI: I S DIFFICULT !
IU CUT LOT I li P O S S I L L E . I li A V E hAD A GUIDED TOUR OP ,
i g
j 17 0 0 L' C h E t ,1 C A L ' $ M I L L A t; D PLAhT ALCUT T E t; YEARS /s G C l .
lb Llil L E l iiE Y WERE DULLLOZIhG UP SEVERAL INCHES OF
( l i h
l J! T0P$oll e n Li. IANY ACKES AND I I; C I N L L A l I N G IT, AND ,
1 20 NERE I (UOTE, "JECAUSE OF A PRCi>LEN kLLATED TL i l
/3 t' k C C U C i l 0 h LF C h l 0 K I h A T E (; ehEtiLLE." l l
- f. 2 (THEY CoVIOUSLY I.E Ali T " D I C T. I I : " . ) S i t; C E -
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!. 3 i t . t: 't LEhl Ghl LP Tl E bCRLL'L l i /s d (; n F R L C U C E }: S, C i )
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L4 245 U I CliL O R AL PliEN C L , THE NOST C O h h C ri t> R E C U k S O L or -
- .5 THE LLHST LF lhE LIDX1hS. I l
1 1
I l
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' '- 464
, 1 MAYoE ThE WASTE S iiO U L D LE PLACED IN i , ,
2 C ol:T A I G E R S Als D RETRIEVEALLE STORAGE TO ALLOL '
$ r /
3 RADIOACTIVE DECAY /ND THEN ll1C i tie R A T E IT. THIS i
"- 4 El DS NY T E S T I h 0 t; Y .
L. !
j b hk. LOCGE: I hA\E I. 0 F U R T il E R l 6 DIRECT.
a I .i 7 UULbE hCYT: DO YOU HA\u ANY
. O C R O S S - E X A l '. I N A T I G N , l ', R . SILBERG? ,
i I
]
- . hh. SILbERG: A LIT 1LE blT.
i 10 - - -
l
]
11 CRCSS-EX/MINAT1Ch li LY I.a. SILLEkG: I i
) ,
33 (. ARE iuU EliP L 0 Y E L FULL-TIME bY --
I HATE 14 fu blSPRONOU!.CE IT --
C I C L A C /.?
1
' ' ' $. L A. RICERCA. IT IS ThE L A T ill SPELLING FOR 16 THE W L i; D R E S E /.k cli , n!CERCA.
l 17 Q. ARE YOU LhPLOYED l- U L L - T I I<. E i i
i .
' lb A. YES, I A li , FOR T li E PAST 34 YEALS.
IL t. I v. f b CUhlOUS b lit T h E h A i, Y OF THE 20' Ci!E si! C AL L Tl! A T YOU hAVL RECEIVED OR J O I N 'll. Y 21 c: tCEIVEL PATEhTS FOR HA\E bEEN TESTED FOR T ill: l H i !
ze CARCINGLENIC --
.l 23 /.. I LOULD E X F ti C T 'l ll A T S 0 lif. G I- T h t: h HAVL i 24 ti L L i .
p b b-: . L L U L l> YLU EXPECT T l. A T S 0 tie OF T h Eli M I G it T I,p '
- 1. . _ - - _ , _ . _ . - - _ . _ . . . _ , . - - .
_ . _ . , . . _ _ _ . , . _ _ . - . _ _ . . . _ _ _ . . . _ - , . _ _ _-_.- . - --- -_._. -_. ~__ -
465 1 HAVE PROVED TO BE CARSINOGEhlC7 2 A. QUITE P O S ,S I B L Y .
3 Q. DID YOU R E C OtlM EtI D THAT THOSE CHEMICALS 4 NOT BE l; A N U F A C T U R E D BECAUSE OF THAT?
5 A. I DON'T KNOU OF ANY SPECIFIC CNES THAT 6 UERE TESTED AND F O U l< D TC GE C A R C I h 0 G E tJ I C . I' F I
'/ UERE ALARE THAT Ai; Y OF THEM WERE, I CERTAINLY 8 WOULD R E C O I:l;E N D ThAT THEY i; O T BE NANUFACTURED.
9 I LOULL LIKE TO ADD AT ThlS POINT THE 10 PRODUCTS I hAVE t.' E E N UCRKING ON TO REMONE 11 PCLYChLORINATED BIPHENYLS A fs D DIOXIN CONTAIN SUCN l 12 Sl' A L L LEVELS THAT AT THE TIhE LE EEG/N THEIR 13 M Ai!U F A C T U R E i: E COULD ONLY DETECT THOSE M A T E!: I A L S 14 DOWh TO A E, C U T THE PART PER r4 I L L '. L 5 '/ E L . THUS, AT 15 THE TIME WE CEGAN ThE liANUFACTURE, THEY DIC NOT i 16 CONTAli! DETECTABLE LEVELS OF THESE liATERIALS.
li ty O U , bE CAN DETECT THEM BELOU THE PARTS PER l
16 EILLILE\EL ANC'LE DO SEE SMALL Al;O U NT S . .
I ls Q. HAVE YOU HADE ANY ATTEMPT TO FIND OUT )
l 10 bHETHER Ats) OF THESE MATERIALS AS TESTEC HAVE BEEN ,
i 1
21 S H C U i! TO bE CARCINOGENICY )
1 22 A. I i; E L I E V E THE POLYCHLGEINATED is I P H E N Y L S l l
23 UNICH OCCUH BOTH HERE AND IN TRANSFOAhER FLUILS l
24 AND ThE LIOXINS ARE REGARCED CERTAINLY AT LEAST l
)
25 SUSPECT. l
.. I d
. _ - . . , - ~ v
46G I
I 1 O. I'M R E r E R R I tJ G TO YOUh CHEMICALS.
2 A. i; Y SPECIFIC LIST OF PATENTS?
3 Q. RIGHT.
4 A. I SEE AT LEAST O I. E LHICH IS A SUSPECT I
S C A R C It! C G E N . IT IS HCT COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED.
6 I bOULD EXPECT THAT SEVERAL OF THESE OTHERS ARE 7 CARCINOGENS, ALTHOUGH I A tJ. NOT AMARE OF THEIR E\Ek l
b h A V I I; G DEEN TESTED. THEY ARE USED ONLY AS S CHEMICAL INTERMEDIATES.
10 (, 1 SEE. CUT ThEY ARE USED -
4
)
11 A. S O l' E OF THEM ARE USED C O Mi4 E R C I A L L Y . )
12 (c~ . WHEN YOU WERE B E I!!G TRAINED AS A O 11 LADIOLOGICAL OFFICERr TO UHAT LEVELS OF RADLOGICAL 14 EXFOSURE --
LHAT WERE THE KINDS OF LEVELS OF 15 RADIOLOGICAL EXPUSURE WERE YOU E E I t:G TRAINED TO 16 DEAL LITH?
17 A. WELL, THIS LAS THE STANDARD OHIO DIS / STER 16 OHIO SEkVICE COURSE. IT'S INCLUDED ON PAGE 2 OF 19 NY CURRICULUI. VITAE. THE LEVELS OF EXFOSURE THAT 20 WE HAD USED HAVE UEEN VERY SMALL. IT WAS 21 PRIhARILY A CASE OF CLASSROOM THEORY Ai4 D THEN 22 SEARCHING OUT A50UT TWO DOZEN SOURCE 5 ThAT WERE 23 CONCEALED AROUND THE RGON AND THEN IN AN OUTDCOR 24 LIMITEL /WEA.
25 ti. WHAT UERE THE LEVELS OF R A D I AT I Ot:
I 1
I 467 I
l 1 INVOLVED WITh THOSE SOURCES?
l l 2 A. IT UOULD HAVE BEEN UP TO, AT LEAST 500 3 TIMES DACKGROUND FOR SOME OF THE h0TTER SAMPLES, l
4 EUT WE NEVER SPENT t,UCH TIME IN CLOSE Pk0XIMITY TO L
5 ThEM.
l 6
l 6 Q. 50C TIMES BACKGRCUND tiLULD bE ABOUT HOW 7 MANY AREhS? i l
l C A. TEAT LOULD LE ONLY ABOUT S h R Ef.S AN MOUR.
l 9 Q. 500 TIMES, 500 MREh PEi !!O U R ? l l
10 A.. Y E Al; , Of;E ONE-HUNDREDTH IS NORMALLY l l
11 <EGARDED AS LACKGROUND. l 12 ( .. ALL RIGHT. SC IF YOU SPENT 12 NIhUTES O 13 AROUND CNE OF THOSE SOURCESr YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEh l
14 AN EXPOSURE OF AECUT 1 N R E M '. I 15 A. YES.
16 Q. AND THAT DOSE IS C O M P A ll A B L E TO THE DOSE 17 iHAT ONE UGULD GET STANDIIG Off TOP OF A UASTE i 16 LURIAL CELL F0k A YEAR --
24 HOURS A DAY, 365 DAYS !
lb A YEAR? j l
20 A. ACCORDIhG TO THE CALCULATIONS bE HAVE i l
21 H E tsR D JUST THE OTHER DAY, T ii E CELL WOULD GIVE A l l
22 MUCh LOWER EXF050RE. WE EXPECTEC THE EXPOSURES 23 INNOLVED WITH ThIS TRAINING REALIZING OUR PURPGSE I
l 24 UAS kERY SIGNIFICAhT. l l
l 25 Q. YOU DIDN'T EXPECT THAT YOU WCULD RECEIVE l
N_._____-__-___ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I 1
468 ;
i
)
O 1 2
ANY HEALTH EFFECTS FROM THAT EXPOSURE?
A. ThERE IS A L O L, PROL/ B IL IT Y ThAT I MIGHT.
)
3 LOT, AGAIN, IT'S A RISK t. E TAKE AS PEOPLE HAVE TO l
l l & cE ABLE TO TO h0NITCR FOR ThESE THINGS.
l 5 C. ThE LEVELS OF EXPOSURE THAT ARE PROVIDED l 6 FCR, ThAT ARE PRO \IDED IN THE STATE OF OHIO, AhC l l
l l
7 THE LAKE COUNTY E i4 E R G E N C Y PLAN FOR RECUIRING 0 EVACUATION CF PEOPLE AT LARGE, i! HAT ARE THOSE l )
l l b LEVELS, ARE YOU FAMILIAR? l l
( 10 A. YES, hEASONABL) S0. IT'S BASED UPON ThE 1
11 D O C U I.. E N T EPA 520/175001, AND I AM PARTICULARLY le IWTEkESTED IN APPENDIX C OF THAT DOCUhEhT, lihlCH f 12 t/ A S TO HAVE EEEh PROVIDED THE TECHNICAL f
i 14 JUSTIFICATION FOR THE NUMERICAL VALUES OF TtAT
[ 1 1
l i
l lb PROTECTED -- I l l 16 C. I C O il ' T hEAN TO INTERRUPT, EUT WHAT ARE l 1 17 THE LEVELS IN THE LAKE COUNTY AND THE STATE OF lb LHIOi I
! 1S A. 5 REiS.
5,000 MREMS. l 20 Q. YOU HAVE HAD NO T R A ll: I N G AS A MEDICAL 21 DOCTGR, I TAKE IT? '
1 22 A. NO. j l
25 (. YGU ARE NCT A HEALTH PHYSICIST, ARE YOU?
24 A. NL.
25 C; . hA\E YOU --
l 1
l l
l 469 l l
l 1 A. I'VE CCNSIDERED JOINII;G T :- ;EALTh
< PHYSICS SOCIETY, EUT I !; E V E R LAVE.
3 0. 50 HAVE I, GUT I NEVER HAVE EITHER.
4 hAVE YOU EVER PERFORMED /s ti Y COSE 5 C /. L C U L A T I O N S WITH RESPECT TO POSS16LE RELEASES l l
1 6 t- R C h ThE GURIAL FACILITY WE'RE T A L E l i, G /COUT HERE i
7 ThAT YOU MIGHT RECEIVE IN PAINESVILLE? i i
b A. NC, I hate t, C T . THEY UCULC bE NINISCULE, 1
9 V/NISHING, SMALL FROh DAVIS-BESSE TO THE l 10 PAINESVILLE, OHIO, AREA, LUT SINCE THE S /. t . E l
11 C O M P /. t. Y IS Ii: V C L VE C UITh 50TH PLANTS --
32 L. LET'S STICK UITh DAVIS-LESSE?
O 13 A. OKAY.
14 C. 50 /,liy INCREASE IN RADIOACTIVITY DUE TO lb UATER OR FISH OR OTHER KIND OF I t: G E S T I O N THAT
- 16 11 I G H T RESULT F R Oi. THIS RADUASTE SITE LCULD DE I
l '/ VANISHING, SNALL. IS THAT H C 'a YOU MIGHT WANT 1b TC --
l JL A. YES.
20 (. IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT TOLEDO 21 EDISON UOULD hAVE TO OBTAIN PERMISSION F R O ti THE 22 t! U C L E A R rs EGULATORY C G i.i/.I S S I G N BEFORE IT COULD 23 DE COHiil S S I ON ThE D A V I S -E E S S E PLANT /.N D ITS SITEY 24 A. IT IS is Y UNDERSTANDIAG FRON R E /s D I N G THE l
2 :; OCTOEER 9TH, 'E5 FEDERAL xEGISTER THAT THE NRC HAS
470 !
l 1 ALREADY G I V Ei; PETMISSION FOR UliRESTRICTEC USE OF l
e IHIS SITE /S SGCN AS IT IS DEC0hhlSSIChED. I '
3 DISAGREE STRONGLY UITH THAT.
i l
4 (. AS SCON AS WHAT IS DEC0hhISSIChEC?
i
{
i S A. AS S00:4 AS DAVIS-SESSE IS DEC0hhlSSIONED. l
- G I ThlhK IT IS THE THIRD OF ThE ThREE PAGES OF THAT .
l
'l FEDERAL REGISTE' l
t (. USUALLY REFERRING TO ThE SENTENCE AT THE 9 TIME OF DEC0hnISSIONING OF THE NEU -
THE LAND C ri j 1
10 kHICh ThE SLUEGE IS DISPUSEE IS CAPA6LE O t- EEING I 11 RELEASED F 0 F, UNRESTRICTED USE?
l 12 A. YES.
13 (. YOU T h l h :- THAT ALLOWS TOLEDO EDISCN 14 UITh0UT ANY FURTHER REGULATORY APPROVAL TO G P Eis 15 THIS SITE UP FOR UNRESTRICTED USE?
1 15 A. IT CERTAINLY IMPLIES THAT. I bGULv i l
17 EXPECT T h /,T /. N Y REASchACLE PERSON WOULO INSIST ON l
1L RADIATICl; SUuVEY OF T ii E SITE BEFORE IT IS SC l 1
15 nELEASED.
20 C. ARE YOU ALARE OF ANY FACILITY LHICH HAS l l
21 LEEN D E c ol us I S S I O N E f; Tii A T HAS R A D I AT I Oli ON ITr THAT l l
22 IS LICEtSED CY THE t; U C L E A R REGULATORY COMMISSION 23 Tli A T HAS BEEM RELEASED FOR UNRESTRICTED USE 24 LITH 0UT A RADIATION SURNEY? l l
, .! L A. I Ah NOT A U /t R E OF ANY SPECIFIC SITE i
471 l
O 1 L I C E h S t- D 6Y THE NRC THAT HAS EVER GEEN RELEASED.
Nk. LCDGE: YOUR !;0 h 0 R , I \,CULD l
3 hAVE TO 06dECT AT THIS TIME. THIS GOES INTO THE l
4 ISSUL OF OTHER NUCLEAR INSTALLATIONS, AND I S bELIEVE THAT THIS PARTICULAR SET OF INTERVENCRS )
6 i! A S FCKECLOSED EkOh CUESTIONIf;G C T li E R i INSTALLATIONS THIS A G E N I t: G .
6 dUCGE ii O Y T : THAT'S RIGHT.
b V. k . SILEERG: \! E
- R E TALKING A60LT 10 ThE PRACTICE OF ThE t; R C ANL NOT OTHER INSULATIONS.
13 JUDGE HOYT: LET ME hAVE THE 12 (s UESTIGli b /, C K .
13 hR. SILCERG: LET hE R E P H l! A S E IT.
12 JUDGE UGYT: I'LL LET YOU
, lb C E P h l. A S E IT, Ahl IF I'h NCT SATISFIED, I'h STILL 16 G O I f; C TO GO cACK.
d 17 r. Y hh. 5ILBELC:
ll ( . ARE YOU ALARE OF AhY INDICATION THAT THE l ie NRC WOULO RELEASE A SITE F o r< UtRESTRI-CTED USE 20 i.ITh0LT A hALIATICI, SURVEY?
21 A. I ThINK. I i
' I 22 sir. LODGE: OBJECTIOl. CALLS '
23 FOR SPECULATION AhD SAME PRIOR OB J E CT I Gl] . l 24 JUCGE hOYT: '. E L L , I THIhK THE 25 CUESTION IS AIMED TOWARD THE DE C OMM I S S I Ct; 0F THIS l
i
d 472 1
1 SITE. I THINK ThAT'S THE Wh0LE ThENE GF THE l l
2 (UESTIOfir hn. --
3 i4 i4 . L O f.G E : CUT, YOUR H Oli C R --
)
i I
4 JUDGE HOYT: MA. LODGE, \! H A T IS 5 (OUR CTHER OBdFCTIOh1 l I
i 6 li k . LCDGE: THAT IT CALLS FOR '
1 7 THE F I T is E S S TO SPECULATE AS TG WHAT THE ilUCLEAR 6 LECULATORY C O hb l S S I Ofi PRACTICE /4 D REGUL/ TION UILL is bE IN 2,010 Ok 2,015.
10 JUDGE hOYT: hR. LODGE, AFTER l
31 TWO L ;s Y S IN THIS HEARING ROOM, US HAVE HAD A CREAT I 12 NANY b r' E C L L A T I O li S r A h O i! G UhlCh THIS IS ONLY ONE.
15 Ek, LODGE: THIS IS TRUE.
14 JULGE h0YT: AND THIS IS 15 C R G S S - E X A!4 I N A T I O h r AND IT'S PRETTY BROAD. I'h 16 GOING TC PERMIT ThE (. U E S T I O N . I BELIEVE MR.
li S I L b E it G -- A L Oli E N T AGO YOU DIDN'T LIMIT THE l
16 UITNESS TO THE --
IN HIS RESPONSE TO NAKE IT 19 APPLICABLE ONLY TO DAVIS-bESSE.
( 20 tiR, SILbERG: THAT*S CORRECT.
l l 21 JUDGE HOYT: THEN I SHALL 22 CAUTION YOU TO HAKE YOUR CUESTIONS CIRECTED TOUARD 23 DAVIS-BESSE ONLY.
24 Mk. SILbERC: CAN I HAVE THE 25 (UESTION REREAD? IS THE LAST QUESTION AN
i
)
473 I
l l 1 ACCEPTABLE (UESTION?
l 2 I'LL TAKE IT AS AN ACCEPTABLE CUESTION 3 UNDER THE VERY UROAD CROSS-EXAMINATION Tli A T ' S EEEN 4 GIVEN hERE.
5 NR. SILLERG: DO YOU WANT TO READ C THE LAST CUESTION? ,
I E (THEREUPCN, THE REPORTER READ BACK THE 4
l L LAST CUESTION.) l
, 10 - - -
1 11 JUDGE UCYT: LE ARE G O I I!G TO 12 LIMIT THAT RESPONSE TO JUST DAVIS-bESSE.
O 13 ThE U I Tii E 5 5 : I THINK THE OCTCLER l 1
i l 14 ISTH FEDERAL REGISTER PROVIDES AN INDICATION THAT 15 IT l.I G hT BE RELEASED UITHOUT A!! Y S U Cli SURVEY.
16 SY NR. SILCERG:
,19 17 G. ARE YOU FAhlLIAR L' I T H THE NRC'S PROPOSED 1
l 16 LEGULATIONS ON D E C O l-iM I S S I O N I h G NUCLEAR POWER 15 PL/NTS?
1 20 A. NO, I AM i, C T , EUT I AM ALARE THAT THE EPA
]
21 IS P R O P O S I I:G TO REGULATE DE C ONtlI S S I ON I NG OF AREAS 1
l 22 WhICH HAVE FORhERLY LEEN LICENSED BY THE NhC. IT ;
23 IS JUSr GETTING Ili T O THAT AREA. I l
24 Q. UERE THOSE --
WOULL THOSE EPA REGUL/TIONS j l
26 R E C;U I R E A RADIATION SURVEY BEFORE AN AREA UAS I l
1
7.-
L. s I
<L ,
, j L , 474 ] ,
i , j i
i
-1 RELEASED .FOR UNRESTRICTED USE? ,
2 A. I CON'T BELIE.VE T H E.Y HAVE DEEN FORMULATED l 1
3 YETr BUT I WOULD EXPECT THEM T0-REQUIRE A S U R V E Y- .]
l l
! 4 WHICH I WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH. i l
l.
f- ,
5 Q. LET ME SHOW YOU FEDERAL' REGISTER N o.T I C E. l
! )
~6 OF MONDAY, FEBRUARY llTH, 1585.
f 7 A. . I THINK I HAVE THIS.
l 8 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THESE AS THE.NRC'S. RULES S FOR DECOMMISSIONING NUCLEAR POWER PLANT?
i ll 10 A. I HAVEN'T STUDIED THAT. I THOUGHT YOU i:
11 UERE GOING.TO~ SHOW ME THE EPA'S REGULATORY AGENDA )
\
l f 12 blTH IT. '
ie r 13 Q. LET NE READ'FROh T H-E PROPOSED'NRC RULE
-)
i
'i 14 THAT WE HAVE bEEN REFERRING TO.AND ASK IF'YOU- l l
15 UOULD AGREE -THAT THIS IS WHAT THE RULE --
PROPOSED i- -
]
l 16 RULE SAYS. APPLICATIONS JFOR- TERMINATION'OF l
[ 17 L-ICENSES. DOES IT NOT REQUIRE TH'AT A PROF 0 SED.
J l
i 16 DECOMMISSIONING PLAN MUST-INCLUDE'A DESCRIPTION OF "
19 THE PLANNED FINAL RADIATION SUR'VElY?
I 20 A. YES. 'l 1
f' -21 Q. WOULD THAT__ INDICATE TO YOU THAT THE!-NRC -
22
~
WOULD BE PLANNING T O ~ R E O U I R E ' R A D I A T I ON' SURVEYS
[
]
23 BEFORE SITES ARE RELEASED ON R E S T R I C T E D-- O S E ?.
l
~
. 24 A. FIRST, THAT WOULD I N D I C A T E. - T O ME^THAT THE
!- 25 SENTENCE YOU READ ~ FROM..THE OCTOBER -.9TH' REGISTER 'l ;
. 475 i
1 DIDN'T i:ELONGr ANC S E C Cf. D L Y r IT liGULD INDICATE 2 ThEY LOULD lCT RELEASE THE SITE UITHCUT A l
3 RADIATION SUR\EY.
4 Q. YOU /s R E F A M I L I A it LITH ThE U t; I T GF 1
5 MEASUREMENT, THE K I L O llE T E R ; ARE YOU liO T ?
6 A. YES.
) (. ThAT'S, IN IHE N E T ri l C SYSTEN AT LEASTr A l 6 USEFUL t.E A S U R E M El; T TO HAVE?
l A. YES.
10 C. IT'S A R A T I O l; A L t,EASURING DEVICE?
11 A. YES.
12 0. YOU ARE ALSO t- A h l L I A f, WITH THE 13 hE A S U R E tie N T OF THE M I L L I f4 E T E R ; ARE YOU NOT? !
i l
14 A. YES.
4s 15 6. A i4 D THAT'S ALSO A RATIONAL UNIT GF '
i i
16 tie A S U I E i6 E N T ?
li A. YES, ll t, . THE FACT THAT GUE OF THGSE IS A hlLLION 19 TIMES DIGGER THAN THE OTHER DOESN'T l; A k t THE I I
20 L A R G E i; GNE IRRATIOhAL, DOES IT?
21 A. IT'S fiUCH EASIER TO t;GVE A D E C I t'. A L POIN1 l
22 T h /,N 10 EULTIPLY SchETHING LIKE 37 f; I L L I O N . l l
23 (. WhAT IS THE ANSLEk TO MY GUESTIGN? IS 24 ThE FACT ThAT THE hlLLIhEhER IS A hlLLIGN TIMES l 25 SMALLER THAN THE KILOMETER NAKE THE KILOMETEfl AN l
l
- _ _ . _ . _ _ _ _ __ _ - . - . _ _ - - , . . _ _ , , _ . . . . _ _ . - - ~ , , , - _ , - _ , . _ _ _ , , .
476 l l
1 IRRATIONAL UNIT OF MEASUREMENT?
2 A. i40 , I LOULD SAY IT DOES li C T .
3 Q. AND SO YOU WOULD SAY THE SAME T H I I, G W I T li l
4 CURIES AND LEC( UERELS? ,
I b A. h0, I WOULD NOT. IF THE NULTIFLIER UERE l
6 S l i4 P L Y ONE FOLLOLED BY ZERO, I MIGhT AGREE WITH i YOU, LUT IT IS NGT THAT SIMPLE. IT'S tiO R E l 6 COMPLEX.
3 f. , I SEE. YGU HAVE TO NULTIPLY 6Y 350 10 ti l L L I Oli INSTEAD OF GNE MILLION?
11 A. iiG r i; O T 550. UE'RE TALKING ABOUT 37 l I
12 blLLIGN AS THE FACTOk.
13 Q. ii C b i . /s h Y 6 L C (:U E R E L S /. R E THERE IN A 14 til L L I C U R I E .
15 A. ThAT TAKES A LITTLE LhlLE TO FIGURE.
- 3J GO l l
- G IiORE SIMPLY FROM THE CURIE TO THE DECQUEREL, 17 A CULIE IS 37 6ILLION GEC(UERELS.
lb Q. I SEE. DUT YOU COULD MULTIPLY THOSE CUT lb AND GET Fi Oti C f! E NUkUER TC ANOTHER, COULD YOU NCT?
I 20 A. YES.
21 ( . YOU ARE NGT ALLEGING THAT EACH OF THESE 22 31b I Gt4 I Z I I:G RADIATIONS CAUSE CANCER, ARE YOU?
)
23 A. I: 0 . I DELIEVE EACh GNE HAS THE 24 POTENTIAL, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY UILL ii E V E P STRIKE 4
25 A POTENTIAL V I C T I ld .
l l
l
., 477 1 Q. I SEE. THAT REALLY IS THE VAST MAJCRITY; l 2 ISN'T IT?
l l
3 A. YES.
4 O. YOU UGULD AGREE WITH THE GENERAL DOSE l
l 5 RESPONSE N UliB E R S THAT HAVE BEEN AGREED TO BY THE 6 UNITED NATIONS SCIENTIFIC C Olih l T T E E AND Tl!E
'/ NATIONAL ACADENY OF SCIENCE AND THE EPA AND THE E NRC
! A. THE h E. C DOESN'T AGREE WITH THE LINEAR 10 DOSE RESPONSE. IF, FOR EXANPLE, ONE LOOKS AT WASH 11 1,400 APPENDIX 6, THERE IS A CASE WhERE THE NRC 12 S H C'4 5 A SEMI LOG PLOT OF DOSE VERSUS EFFECT 13 i: E L A T I N G TO LD-b6'S AND THE AMOUNT OF NEDICAL
! i 14 TREATNENT GIVEN. THEY SHOW THAT AS BEING A LII; EAR lb RESPONSE DOUh TO ABOUT TEN PERCENT DEATHS AND THEN l-16 THEY HAVE IT GREAKING DOUN TO GIVJ LESS EFFECT PER i 1
- 17 LNIT OF RADIATION THAH OhE UCULD PREDICT FROh /s 10 STRAIGHT-LINE PROJECTION.
1S C. AT VERY LOW LEVEL.5, YCU WCULD GET EVEN i
l 20 FEU HEALTH EFFECTS?
l 21 A. THE NRC PREDICTS FEUER THAN THE LItEAR 22 RESPONSE. I UOULO AGREE WITH THE LINEAR EFFECT
( 23 TO --
24 Q. hAVE YOU TRIED TO C A L C U I. A T E hob MANY 25 HEALTH EFFECTS ONE MIGHT EXPECT APPLYING THE l
l
1 l
478 1 l
1 LINEAR HYPOTHESIS WITh THE KINDS O i- DOSES LE'RE 2 TALKING / E, G U T h E l, E ?
3 A. YES, I hA\E DONE S G P.E . I HA\E T A K E li S C t '. E l
4 GRAPH 5 Sh0LN CY EPA U H E ;1 E THEY USE 300 RENS AT THE i l
L L D-50 LEVEL. 200, T H E 'r SAY, WOULL GIVE ACOUT 15 6 PERCENT DEATHS WIThlM GG DAYS. THIS IS A l
/ SYlihETRICAL RELATIOHLhlP. IF YOU GO ON UP TO 400, 6 THEY PREDICT Lb PERCENT DEATHS.
9 Q. U l: A T bOULD THEY GET FROh GNE h R E t.?
10 A. ThlS EPA T H I fi G GIVES US SORT OF AN 11 S-CURVE. ON ThE L O'. E R END AT 100 ERENS, THEY ARE 20 12 P R E D I C T I t.G ThU PERCENT DEATHS WIThlN 60 DAYS. IF 13 FROM THAT P O I I. T YOU EX1HAPOLATE IN A L I N E /\ R 4
14 FASHION DOLN TOLAkL ZERO DOSES, YOU UILL F I f1 D IT 16 UGULD PREDICT SOME 200 E V El;T U A L CANCER DEATHS FROh I
16 A ci; E -R E M EXPOSURE. THIS IS NOT VERY FAR F R C f-; THE l
17 156 THAT CNE OP YOUR WITNESSES TOLD US THE OTHER lL CAY.
i lb t, . I ' .4 SGRRY. YOU SAID A 100 NREM DOSE 2C UOULD CAUSE 20 PEhCENT IiORTALITY IN 60 DAYS?
21 A. kC, ia 0 , h6, N0. 200 (1 REMS UAS SAID TO 22 CAUSE 15 PERCENT. 100 RENS, THEY PREDICTED WOULD 73 CAUSE --
24 . 100 RENS OR I.R Eh?
25 A. EXCUSE ME, 100 RENS.
t - .____.-. _._ --_.,- . . . . -
479 1 C. T N Al4 K YOU, 2 A. DIC I SAY MREM? ALL GF t, Y U t. I T S hErE a
3 SHOULD HAVE CEEN IN REMr I LELIEVE.
1 I
4 C. LHAT UGULD CNE hREN PRODUCE?
I 1
5 A. I UGULD ALh0ST HAVE TO DO MY CALCULATIONS 6 ON A LITTLE PAPER hERE. I ls THE ONE CASE, UE'RE 7 TALKIt: L FATALITIES O C C U R P,I N G U I1 H Ii: 60 DAYS. THIS U IS AN ACUTE DOSE DELIVEREC UITHIN A SHORT T II;E .
i
4 1
10 f, . WE'RE NCT TALKING ALOUT ACUTE DOSES IN A 11 SHCRT T I fiE ,
12 A. LUT IT IS INTERESTIhG TO NE THAT ONE CAli 13 TAKE THE LOWER END OF THIS, THE TWO PERCENT FROf1 14 100 RENS. IF YOU GC D O U f; THEN TO 1 R E t, , YOU LOULD i
! 15 PROJECT .01 PERCENT DEATHS. .02 PERCENT, I i
l 16 dELIEVE YOU LILL FINE IS 200 OUT OF A t.I L L I O t; .
l 17 (1 AllD UhAT UGULD IT BE AT G li E MREM.
i l
lb C N E -T h 0 U S A h D T li S OF A REh?
lb A. THAT WOULL GE CNE ONE-Th0USANDTHS OF l i 20 THAT. YGU EGULL LE PREDICTING ChlY TLC TENTHS OF i i
i 21 A DEATH IN A MILLI 0h OR TUO DEATHS I t! 10 MILLIOh.
22 (. ThAT h0ULL ASSUt4E YOU ECULC EXFOSE HOW t 23 MANY PE0PLE TO ThAT ONE l'. R E t . ? I t
2d /.. BELL, THIS kEFRESEt.TS 50RT OF A 25 PR0bALILITY. IF YOU EXPOSE ONE INDIVIDUALr YOU i
i
480 1 C A l; STILL HAVE A PROSABILITY OF TUC IN 10 H I L L I Ot; .
2 (. SO THE PROLALILITY OF C t. E t, E E N IS THAT 5 ThERE WOULUN'T BE ANY, RIGHT?
4 A. U ti L E S S YOU HAVE LARGE NUh6ERS OF j 5 INDIVILUALS EXPOSED. !
6 C. BUT YOU LCULD EXCEPT YOU 1,0ULL hAVE LARGE l
1 i ? NUhCERS OF Ili D I V I D U A L S WhO UOULD RECEIVE A c O N E -H L El. DOSE FRCN ThE BURIAL CELLS? l S A. NO.
I l 10 Q. DO )OU KNCU WhERE THE FROST LINE IS It4 )
11 Ohlti l
i 12 A. IT'S blGULY VARIAELE I I. WETTER AREAS. I 12 WOULD I M A G I I; E IT'S FAR CLOSER TO ThE SURFACE.
l 14 A R C U t: 0 hY hLhE G \'E R IN PAINESVILLE, ThEY RE(UIRE ;
1 lb THAT YOU I N S T /. L L WATER LINES FOUR FEET DEEP, !
16 ALTh00GH F.C S T PEOPLE SEEH TC FEEL THE FRCST L I t! E 17 IS CLOSER TO THE SURFACE THAN THATr PERhAPS RARELY ,
1L oELOL ACCUT 30 I t. C h E S .
I
- 15. (_ . A t> D LASED O i! WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD ON THE I 20 CESIGN OF THE WASTE BURIAL CELLS, THE RESINS WOULD
' i 21 dE NORE THAN 20 IhChES BELOW THE SURFACE; WCULDN'T 22 THEY.
l E3 s . MCSi OF THE b/Y, YES, LUT THE FACT THA: '
l 1
24 WE'4E T A L K I tsG ALOUT AN ELENATED STRUCTURE W ii l C h I J
l
- 2. 5 'l 0 U L D PERhAPS CATCH A LCT OF BREEZES, IT MIGHT '
l I
481 1 TEND TO DRY OUT IN ITS UPPERh0ST PORTION WITH THE 2 LOU HUMICITY IN THE WINTER AT kOST FEARS, I LGULD 3 EXPECT, FAR GEEPER.
4 C. YOU HA\EN'T TRIED TO FIGURE CUT WHAT ThAT 5 LOULD SE, H A V ti YOU?
ti A. NO, I HAVEN'T.
i 7 0. DO YCU HAVE ANY REASON TO C H A L L E tiG E Tl!E L VOLUME E S T II: A T E S OR THE ACTIVITY ESTINATES OF THE i
L RESINS CGNTAINED IN TABLE 10-1 OF THE LICENSEE'S 10 T E S T I liO I! Y i 11 A. IS THAT THE SAME AS BAS SHOUN IN THE 1
I 12 FdLERAL REGISTER.
13 C. LO. I'n TALKING ABOUT LICENSEE *S 14 T E S T I l4 0 N Y .
15 A. I HAVEN'T STUDIED THAT. I LID NGT FEEL 16 ANY CP, EAT REASON TO CUESTION IT. I WAS A LITTLE l 17 v IT FUZZLEE THAT IT CAhE OUT SAYING ONLY 4.4 M R EI;S 16 GF RESIM hAS EVEP SENT TO THE SETTLING 5ASIN.
lb (. DO UE SEht M R E t;S OF RESIh? YOU JUST SAID i 20 UE SENT 4.4 MREMS OF RESIN. IS THAT HCU LE 21 MEASURE -
22 A. NC, NC. 4.4 MILLICURIES. THE FEDERAL 22 REGISTER NOTICE 1: A U SFOKEN OF 8.5 hiLLICURIES
- 2. 4 b E ll4 0 PRESENT Ih ThE SETTLING LASIN AT Ti; AT TIME, l
25 GR AT THE TIME Tl: A T INFORMATION WAS PREPAREDr AND i
I l
l .
i l 482 1 N G '.J WE A il E L E I fig TOLD THAT OtLY HALF THAT I,U C H WAS 2 EVER S E tJ T 10 THE SETTLING E A S I t; S . I b /, S SchELHAT l
3 PUZZLED OVER THE REASOfi FOR THAT DIFFERENCE. !
s l 4 * . YOU L I L t; ' T uGTHER TO TRY TO F I ts D GUT Ok l l
5 YOU CIDN'T THINK IT U/S IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO FIND 6 OUf L H 'i ThAT LIFFERENCE WAS?
7 A. I
- ii i; O T SURE. AT ONE TIME I KNOW WE HAD 1
L SONE NCTES WRITTEh C O W l; FREPARED TO ASK S U Cli ts l S (UESTION, bUT WE NAY HAVE DELETED THAT IN THE 10 INTEREST OF S P E E L; I i1 G THE HEARING.
l l i
11 Q. I SEE. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO i l
11 CHALLENGE THE ACTIVITY L I l'. I T S r I TAKE IT, IN ThAT l
l 13 table?
14 A. NO.
15 dUEGE i;G Y T : YOU ARE REFERRING i
16 TO THE TAELE IN 10-1?
l 17 THE WITNESS: I HAVEN'T STUDIED i
lb THAT TAELE ENOUGH TO EITHER SUPPORT OR QUESTION 15 ITS CONTENTS.
l l
20 EY t ~. R . SILbERG:
2.1 (. OKAY. 50 UHEN YOU SAY IT'S hARD TC 22 E S T Ili A T E THE V C.L U M E AND DETERMINE THE 23 nADIGACT1VITY OF THE RESIh5, YOU ARE SPEAKING 24 GENERALLY AND NOT C H A L L E f:G I t; G OUR SPECIFIC 25 NEASUREMENTSe I TAKE IT?
l 1
, . . . . . -- - - .- _ _ .- . - .. - - - - . _ -._ .=
l l
l l
483 l
l 1 A. I
2 ALL. I hAD ASSUMEL OR IC IN ALLY THAT.YOU NIGHT DE i 3 TRYING TO ESTIMATE AN ACCUNULATED VOLUME OF I
4 S E D I lie l4 T WHICH UGULD BE V E ii Y MUCH MORE DIFFICULT 1
i 5 THAN KNOUING HOW I '. U C h BATCHES OF CONFINED VOLUMES 6 OF hESIGS YOU HAD DISCHARGEC.
7 C. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYBODY WHL SLEEPS Ih
- 6 h0LES IN THE G R O U t< D OUT IN THE N O F, T H E R N , OHIO 4
S AREt?
10 A. I DIC MYSELF OUT AT CAhF STATE WANDEES 1
11 (PHOhETICl LITH A GROUP OF BOY SCOUTS.
12 Q. YOU CID IT FOR THREE MONTHS OUT OF A t
< 12 Y E A r. ?
14 /. . I C I Dt; ' T ; EUT THERE LERE PEOPLE OUT Tl! E R E 15 ThAT DID STAY OUT THERE ALL S Uti M E R , AND IT WAS 16 COMMOM PRACTICE F0F ThE BOYS TO DIG THE HCLE AND l '/ SLEEP ThERE.
lb (; . AhD YOU T H I ; F: THAT IT'S LIKELY TO HAFPENi ls A. IF IT IS F. E L E A S E D FOR TOTALLY 20 Ul:R E S T R I Ci d D USER bE NAVE TO CONSIDER ALY EVENT.
21 C. CEGAP.DLESS OF HOU LIKELY THAT MIGHT DET 22 !. . YES, INITIALLY THE RESINS UELE h0T 1
21 PROPOSED TO BE SOLICIFIED. NOWr THAT YOU ARE I
24 PRUPOSIab TG TREAT THE L/STES AS YOU ARE, IT h00LD 2S DE 11 U C H M O ., E LIKELY TNAT /riYONE UOULD DIG A h0LE i
l
484 1
1 INTO TiiE R E S II; Etu.
4 2 (; . i;LCh LtSS LIKELY?
2 A. I'. U C l ; LESS LIKELY. I TilINK THE COMPAt;Y'S 4 P F. O P O S /. L S i. A D LEEN VASTLY IiiPROVED FR 0fi THE
\
5 OCTOCER UTH FLLERAL REGISTER DESCRIPTIOh.
6 C. ALE YOU F Al.I L I AR LITH UATER f,U A L I T Y IN f
'/ THIS AREn, PEOPLE UHO HAVE TRIED To DhlLL LELLS, L MCUSES T H /. T /.R E I. EAR --
ALLbTIVELY NE/R ThE PLANT t
S S I T E '.
10 A. is G T L A \ I S - U E S S t. A i' E A . I CONSIDER t:Y S E L F 11 SOMEUhAT OF Al. EXPERT IN li Y O W i! H G i-iE AREA BECAUSE 12 I (K A I N T /, I t; E L A ;D G P E R /.T E C ll Y GbN WELL FOR YEARSr e 13 AND I W A n t;E D Y li E COUt T Y SANITARY E r1 G I N E E R I f:G THAT 14 hh k/S G C l i.G TO L R A I;. A COUPLE D O 2 E t! UELLS LHICh I
lb hE PROCEEDED TO DO. iT COST THE COUNTY EASILY i ld h /,L F A l.I L L I Ot; LOLL /RS ThAT THEY COULL HAVE 17 /. V O I L c L .
ll L. YOU /. R E NOT WGRRIEC AECUT YOUR UELLS lb L E ll:G C C t!T Alill! A T E Di 20 A. !; G T 4. N Y h 6 R c . I hAVE P A li; E S V I L L E CITY 21 LATER.
22 (. I'h T A L K l i; G
- t. S O U T ThE EURIAL?
22 A. IT IS t-i Y ORIf; KING UATER THAT C 0 ti E S 24 ThROUGh THE PAINESVILLE CITY SYSTEh THAT IS 25 C Gt;T A t;I N A T E U .
485 1 Q. U h E ti YCU SPECULATE ThAT S O t;E ALLEGED POOk 2 SOULS t,16 h T Li: I I; K A te i. E /.T h E I?. WELL LATER FROM A 3 ShALLOU WELLr YOU HAVE NO CASIS FOR CONCLUDING 4 Tl; AT THERE ARE SUCh UELLS IN ThlS AREA?
5 A. I i. A S THINKING IN TERMS OF Uf! RESTRICTED Li USE /.F T E R L E C O I,h l S S I c h .
't G. LOULD ThAT LECESSARILY CUAFbE THE LATER b fUALITY:
i A. I L C U.L D EXPECT AT LEAS 1 I I; THE AREA OF IU THE fiC S T RECENTLY DISPOSED RESIN THERE WCULD STILL 11 LE C L U E C T I G l. A L L E (UALITIES CF RADIATION IF THE 12 FERSON LERE TO CIG THEIR hcl.E IN THE MIDELE OF IT
@ 15 G V e l. C O N S T R U C T li.G ThEIR DRINKIhG LATER LELL Ih THE l e. iIDLLE OF IT.
Ib O. IF THE LOCAL U /.T E R i; A D VERY HIGH hYDRCGEN 16 SULFIDE CONTENT RIGHT NCUi l '/ A. Th/T CAh LE TREATEE. YOU CAN CXIDE IT IL LITH hYLLLGEh SULFIDE TG ELIMINATE ThE TASTE AND f 39 OGOR LY T ii E A T I i. 6 IT LITH A LITTLE SGDIUl'.
2C hYPOChLORITE OR C /. L C I U ti . THEY ARE COTH COMl4GN 4
5.1 UATER TR EATi.E N T Cl.El. I C A L S . E V E f; SEARS E ROEBUCK 22 UILL SELL YCU A METERING P uliP TO h /s il D L E Tli l 5 23 P n G L .; S S rOn YGUR l i O h ii .
22 i: . Ib /,l. Y u 0 D Y CGING ThAT 1 14 THE LELLS THAT 25 MIGHT DE NEAR Th!S P L A f; T i
486 1 A. I D 0 f.
- T KHCU ABOUT hCAR ThlS PLANT, DUT I 2 t' E k S 0 i; A L L Y K i; 0 W /. h I N ic I V I C U A L OVER I I. ThE 3 CLEVLLAND AREA bHO IS U S I fl G SUCh A SYSTEh.
4 t, . LUT 'r C U D0h'T kh0L OF ANY UELLS THAT ARE S NCAk ThIS PLANTi
- 6 A l'M l.0 T F A t..I L I A R LITH Tii I S AREA.
7 y. YOU L G l. ' T E V E f; Lh0L IF THERE ARE SUCH o EELLS?
9 A. i4 C , I LON'T.
10 ( ..
YOU CRITICIZE A DOSE CALCULATICN IN THE 11 FECERAL R E G I S 'I E R LAST OCTOBER SECAUSE THE 12 k A t; I G A C T I V I T Y --
YOU ARGUE IN i,C R E T H /, t. T E l; 4 13 C EN T I t.E T E R S e THE TOP T E t; CENTIl.ETERS Sit O UL D CE 14 USEE?
lb A. YES.
16 (. ulC YGU i:E AR THE T E S T I t.O N Y TODAY?
17 A. YESr UE ARE fi O U C ON S I D E R Ilic A TOTALLY 10 L I t- F E R E N T $ET UP thEREbY ThERE WILL LE AT LEAST A 19 C C U P L i- OF FEET OF CLAY OVER THE TOP GF THE 4
20 DISPOSED . L S II. S e /s f. C ThE R E S I.i S LILL EE DELETED e
21 UITh THE C E l' E N T KILN DUST WE NAVE HEARD ABOUT.
22 Q. I 'ii T A L K I I. G ADOUT COSE C A L C U L AT I Ol: 5.
2 J, A. Th15 RELATES TO DOSE C.i L C U L A T I G li S . IT 4 Z/ P K O V I L t. S bhlELLING. ThE FECERAL REGISTER 26 t N N C U N C Lli E t:T OF GCTCCLR STh LAST YEAR A S S UI'.E D AN
487 1 INDIVICUAL UERE TO S T / I; D CN TiiE UNCCVERED RESINS 2 A li C THEY ALLOLEC FOR THE r,ADIATION EXPOSURE COhlNG 3 ONLY FROM THE TOP TEN CENTIMETERS OF ThE WASTur 4 ThAT IS ABOUT ThE TCP FOUR INCHES OF ThE LASTE.
S LE'VE NOU fiEARD THE WASTE IS TO EE J E I G t.T - A U L - A -(U A R T E R FEET LEEPr E' i' INCHES. THAT'S
/ A FAF LREATER DEPTH OF R E S Ils AND SINCE ALL OF T ii E L 5 RALIOISOTOPES LISTED IN ThAT FEDEkAL 9 REGISTRATICN EMIT GAMtiA RADIATION, I THINK IT IS 16 Il.P O R T Ah i iO C O U f:T hChE THAN THE TOP 21, 25 I N C ri E S 11 OF THc R E S I;; IN C A L C U L A T I !; G THE DCSE.
e le v. ull YOU h E /.R THE EXPLANATICf; OF THE DOSE 12 CALCULATION PROCECURE THAT WAS USED AND THE 14 T E S T IliG N Y ekESEi;TED?
1S A. UELLr I lie A R D A DESCRIPTION OF /,
16 C Ci.P U T E R . WELLr As LANE OF A C O lip U T E R PROGRAM AND l ~/ A V E i; Y CVERSIhPLIFIED DESCRIPTION ThAT IT IS 10 SUerGSELLY C O ti S I U t h liiG THE DEPTH OF THE ENTIRE lb xESIN LED AhD ALSO Tii A T IT IS NCU C O N S I D E R I t;G THE 26 E ls T I R E FULL-TIht EXPOSURE i: A T H E R THAN JUST 100 21 HOUd5 P E i. YEAR LIKE THE ORIGIhAL FEDERAL REGISTER 22 hAL L C l. E .
21 G. SC --
.4' A. LU) ThEY STILL COME OUT WITh hUCh LOWER 2S N UI' D E R S , AND I DON'T UNDERST/,ND HOU IT CAN DE SC
488 1 NUCH LCUER. I CAN UtiDERSTAND THE SHIELDIt:G 2
BENEFIT THEY hAVE GAINED TAKING CARE OF ThE 3 CIFFERENCE IN THE DEPTH OF THE RESINr LUT I DON'T 4 ta E L I E V E THE SHIELDING LOULD i> E GREAT E N C U G li f, C CN S I D E R I t:G ThAT THIS INVCLVES A LOT OF GAMMA (5
>< A D I A T I O f . TO ACCOUNT FOR THE TIME DIFFERENCE.
7 Q. YOU'RE UCT A --
0 A. I hA\EN'T DONE DOSE CALCULATIONS. I L
boULD All.C S T LAVE TO DEPEND ON ACTUAL RADIATICN 10 SUkVEY OF A CONPLETED CELL W I T li t;Y LEVEL OF 2
11 EXPERTISE TO t> E AblE TG ESTIhATE A HAZARD HERE.
12 0. SO YOU UOULDN'T UANT TO SET YOUF LEVEL OF G 13 EXPERTISE AS A C /. I N S T THE LEVEL CF EXPERTISE OF THE 14 WITNESSES WHO TALKED AEOUT DOSE CALCULATIONS HEREi 13 A. I CAN SEE WhAT APPEAL:S TO bE FAULTS IN 16 THEIR NETHOL OF CALCULATION AS IT WAS DONE I f! THE 17 PEDERAL REGISTER.
10 (. LNGSE iETh0C OF C A L C U L / T I O l .' U /. S THAT?
15 A. Til A T U /. S SUPPOSEDLY THE ts R C ' S 10 CALCUL/)IGN. I L C l. ' T K i-; O W LHEThER IT U/S Tile I R 21 ORIGINAL CALCULATIOff OR UHETHER THEY MERELY e2 R U t! L E R S T /. f . P E C SOMETHING THAT UAS S U E f;I T T E D TO 21 THEM.
24 (. YGU DON'T E V E l; K t-: C U LEGSE CALCULATICN IT 25 UAS?
489 1 A. l;O , I D L I. ' T .
2 Q. YOU (;U C T E A L dl19 261_ __ GE OS [:.6E !j lC ARTICLE 3 1HICH TALKS POTASSIUM FERTILIZERS?
4 A. YES, I HAVE A COPY OF T H /. T ISSUE OF S Li&ll.Q u A_L _.Rij CSR A ttil.C. HERE IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT. I 6 LA\E IT TCO.
'i Q. I'N L C i. D E L I N G IF YGU t.I G H T GET IT AhD '
b HELP l.E CUT A LITTLE DIT? .
5 A. SURE IT'S STICKING OUT ON TOP HERE.
10 Q. AS I READ THAT ARTICLE, THE PEOPLE I I; 11 G I L I i, I ISLANL 1l E R E U S I t. G POTASSIUh FERTILIZERS TO 12 blOCX ThE U P T /, K E OF C E S I Uli I i4 T O FOOD CROPS; IS 9 13 Th/T C O Ri4 E C T ?
14 A. IT IS NY LiCERSTANDING ThAT THE POTASSIUM 15 UA5 USEC TO DISPLACE THE CESIUM FROM THE SOIL TG 16 INCREASE ITS LATER SCLUBILITY JUST LIKE IT HIGHT l 'i LE LISPLACED F R O i, AN I O!; E Y. C l! A i! G E EY FERTILIZERS.
'L I THILE ThlS IS A VEhY COhEAAAULE ALALOGY, 19 r L Tl;C U G li MOST OTHER T h l !!G S IN ThIS ARTICLE, SIHCE 20 IT RELATES TC A L E A P ol:S TEST AREA \!LEEE THE 21 E .N V I R O N ii E N T tl A S SO LADLY C O ti T A M I is A T E D , MAY NOT LE 22 VERY e E R T I h Et. T 6 0 ThIS DISCUSSICl;.
23 Q. D O E S l; ' T IT SAY ON PAGE Ell CUOTING A zi LALREhCE L I V E kl,G R E I .J L I V I D U A L , " t; C \. \' E ARE LOOKING 25 AT PGSSILLE EEt;EDIAL AREAS SUCH AS blOCKIfG THE
. - . _ . _ . A - -
4SO 1 UPTAKE OF CESIUN I li T O THE CROPS bY R E I4 0 V I ti G S 0l4 E 2 OF THE SOIL. IT IS POSSISLE TO C0 ThE FIRST T H Ii! G 3 ROBINSON i: E L I E V E S BY A P P L Y I t;G FERTILIZET: T0 THE 4 G R O U l E. AT oIKILI."
b 00ESN'T ThAT INDICATE THAT THAT UCULD 6 KtEP C E S I U ti FROM ENTERING THE FOOD CROP?
't A. It IT D I S P L /, C E S THE C E S I Ul'. F R Of. Tf;E SGIL 6 A i4 0 THE SOIL IS UASHED AUAY. IT IS NO L 0 t; G E F.
S A VA I L AL L E TO EE TAKEt. UP CY THE C fi O P S G F. 0 L l; CM 10 THAT SOIL.
11 +
. IS l h E F. E A l4 Y T ii l N G I i, T ri l S A F, T I C L E THAT 12 I i. D I C A T E S TNAT'S UI. A T IS H A P P E N I ; . G ','
13 A. T h E F. E IS l.ENTIGN AGAIN LATER IN THE 14 AxTICLE OF THE USE OF PDTASSIUM, /, h D MY IMPRESSION le r .10 h t.EAnING lHE /. i: T I C L E THAT THEY UERE 16 ESSENTIALLY C/ US ING THE r.ELEASE AND F L U S H I I.G AUAY l ~/ OF THE C E S I b t<..
1L JUL6E NOYI: D0 YOU HAVE A 19 C U E S T I Oi:?
20 uY hR. SILLEhG:
21 0: . LET t.E CALL Y 0 U F. ATTElJTION TO THE L O T T o f '.
22 OF b23 0F Ti.E ARTICLE. D O E SI: ' T IT STATE THERE 23 TNAT hYP0 FERTILIZER I. A Y FURThER LLOCK ThE (PTAKE 24 0F itADI0 ACTIVITY?
15 A. ThAT IS UhAT IT SAYS. ELOCKING ThE
491 i .
4-1 UPTAKE CAh BE ACCoiqPLISHED IN MANY hAYSr TliC U G H .
2 1 01; EXCHANGE C A P ts C I T Y IS A C GI.M O N L Y MEASURED '
3 PROPERTY OF SOILS, ESPECIALLY TOP SOILS.
4 THEhEFORE, YOU CAN ACHIEVE THE EFFECT OF B L O C K li4 G S THE UPTAKE CY D I S P L A C I t;G A MATERIAL A t4 C U li E f; THEY 6 TALK AEOUT SALT L A T Eli IRRIGATION, THEY ALE IN 7 EFFECT SCLUSOLIZING ThE C E S I Uli AND F l. U S H I !; G IT L /- W A Y Id THE IRhlG/ TION L A T E f, .
5 O. Uc D0N'T HAVE A SALT UATER It! LAKE E !? I E r, 10 00 LE?
11 A. RELATIVELY LITTLE.
12 C.
e 13 AWD Lt'RE NOT PLANNING TO USE POTASSIUM FERTILIZERS GL THE LURIAL SITESr ARE bE?
1/ A. THE C O M iiO N FERTILIZERS WhlCh MIGHT BE 15 USED IF ANY FERTILIZER IS APPLIED UCULD NCRMALLY 16 DE tilGH I., N I T R O G E t; , POTASSIUM A t! D PHOSPHOROUS. '
17 THOSE /C L THE ThRtk i.,A J O R GUES.
10 C; . YCU LOOKED AT THE TESTINCNY THAT LE hAVE il SbbhlTTED I s; T G T 1. I S Pk0CEELIhG;t /
20 A. I hAVE LOOKED AT IT. I SEE SOMEThlh6- .
21 AUGUT ESTAullShihG -- I LO I,01 RECALL ANY SPELIFIC 22 L Ei;i l Gh i t'L OF FERTILI?ING TO ACCGMPLISH ThAT -,
23 r> U E P O S E -- oUT I L C U L f; GET IN A i,/id C R I T Y OF CASES 24 UHEN t' E O P L E APPLY SONE SCRT OF GRAS $ SEEDr THEY 25 UEU/LLY /, P P L Y FERTILIZER UITh IT. THE STATE
p ,
492 2 >
, . 1 hlGHUAY DEFARTMENT NORMALLY APPLIES FERTILIZER
.i UITH GRASS SEED.
'.3 C, . ARE 100 F,\hlLIAR LITH THE S T A T E N E N 'l , IF I 4 C /.i. F I t, D IT, S T A T EliE N T I f; TESTIMOhY THAT SAYS T ii A T l
S FEETILIZER, O f, PAGE -
TOLEDO EDISOU UILL NOT USE
'A FEhTILII.Eh Ch THE CUkIAL STRUCTURL7
's A. THAT NIGHT POSSIBLY DE IN RESPONSE TO ThE v
- - L FACT THAT i C' U li A D ti Y TESTIh0NY L Ol1 G E. E F O R E YOURS L, 1 ; /. D TO LE S U L t. I T T E C , YES.
10 C. Tli A T LOULD R E 11G V E YOUR CCNCEkU, I TAKE 11 IT?
3 '.< A. YES, SULE.
d-a ( ..
ThE CONCEPT OF E F I- L O R E S C E h T S EMICH YOU 14, TALK AL(UT ON P/GE SO G r- YOUR T E S T I M 0!! Y I ASSUME d
1D iOULD AFFLY TC A f, Y uALICIS0TCPES LhlCH UOULD lE I I; 16 ThE SOIL?
l 'i A. ANY thIch t=.I G H T CE IN THE SCIL S O L U T I O!; .
i lb IF THEY A!i t- dOUND TC /s R E S II: PARTICLE, THEY ARE lb, I; 0 T A \ /s I L A i, L L TO l.ICRATE AS THE GROUNDbATER l' A S j 20 ' P A S S I f,0 .
21 C. SO IN f.6 h h/ L SCIL UNERE YOU DON'T HAVE 22 RESILS, YOU LOULD EXPECT THE RADIOISOTOPES TO RISE 23 iG THE SULFACE?
b h $ h g g k '+ g $ h 25 EXCH/ FGE CAPACITY, So IT EILL TEND TC RETARD THIS.
/'
493 l
l 1 IT LOULD DEPEND ON H o li N U Cli IS Ih SOIL SOLUTION.
l l
! 2 (. T h /,T '.< C U L D /sL S 0 APPLY Ih THE LUEIAL SITE, i
3 TOO?
l j s A. YES.
S Q. 50 E h E i'. YOU TALE AEOU n n S O ti i< 'r , bE'RE NUT l
6 REALLY TALKING Jis O U T S O Ic.E T H I N G THAT'S VERY
(
j 7 ELEVANT TO DURIAL SITE, A k E . l! E l '
i C A. RELATI\ELY NEWLY PLACED I; A S CN R Y TENDS TC S hAVE A LOT CF SCLUBLE ALKALINE t;ATERIALS IN IT i
10 Wh l C!; HIGHT TEND TG -fl o u I L I Z E THE RADIOACTIVITY IN i
11 A ?!E L L Y PLACEC CELL.
l .c L. AkE LE PLAhNING TO USE I; A S u l. fi Y OUT THERE?
\
, 13 A. CEMENT KILN DUST MAKES THIS WHOLE I;ASONRY l t: A BLCCK OF t.A S O fif. Y . I SHOULDN'T SAY f3 A S O N R Y . '
i e 15 IT'S bEEN LIKENED TO A h /.R D CLAY. IT ISN'T LIKE 16 COhCRETE.
I 17 L; . IT'S NOT NASONRY THEN. THE R/ DIC ACT I VE l
\
ld BASTE DISPGSAL SITES Ti. A T THE U.S. EPA MAS ISSUED l
i li n E G U L /.T I 0 h 5 C U N C E R N It. G INSTITUTIOiett CONTRC*L THAT 2U YOU tl E D T I C iu 01.: PAGE Sr ARE ThosE '.! A S T E SITES l
21 INTENDEL TO C O h T A ll. M O lt h OR LESS THIN E.5 i i l l
22 M I L L I C U it I E S OF LADIATION, RADIOACTIVE hATERIAL OR I
l j
.13 LHATEVER ThE f. b l.L E R b /. S i l
i 24 A. THAT WAS PAGE E? I l
2L Q. YEAH. l l
l
) l
. _ - - - _ - _ _ _ _ _ - - - - - _ -_.._ _. _ _ _ _. _ _ ., _ _ _ . _ a
l 494 l
l 1 A. t40ST RADUASTE DISPOSAL SITES PRESUMABLY 2 DISF0SE GF FAR M O P. E T h Al; L.5 til L L I O:: CURIES.
3 Q. Wi ' R E T /1 L K I N G ALOUT SITES TUAT EOULD DEAL i
4 1.ITh hUCH h0RE nADIATIOli T H Ais THIS INVOLVED.
I i 5 A. I D u r; ' Y btLIEVE l h ti AliO U N T OF R A D I A T I Oli l l
, G LAS D E F l i4 E D . I ThINK IT tJUST U S E E: THE TERti l 7 RADI0 ACTIVE 1; A S T E DISPOSAL SITES IN A GENERIC L F A S H I Ot: .
5 Q. YOU W O U L D ia ' T ANTICIPATE THAT THOSE 10 REGULATIONS WERE INTENDED TO APPLY TO THE ON-SITE I 11 UURIAL LE hAVE HERE, ALE YOU?
12 A. UULESS OR UNTIL S O F.E T h I t,G IS D E F I I; E D 1
r 13 ABOUT L I t41 T I N G ThE SCOPE 0F THOSE REGULATIOhS, I .
l 14 UGULD EXPECT THEY UOULD APPLY? I DON'T bELIEVE !
I 1, THEY 1. A V E LEEN EELL-ENOUGH DEFINED YET TO PUT ANY t l 16 L I h l T ii T I O N CN THE ACTIVITY CELOU WhICH THEY MIGHT
, 17 FCT APPLY. 1 i 1 1
il 0. 50 YOU THINK THE EPA'S REGUL/TIOh5 O ts , l 15 ARE THESE LCL-LEVEL RADIOACTIVE UASTE BURIAL SITES 20 GR HIGH LEVEL? l I
21 A. I C O l'; ' T BELIEVE IT IS DEFINED. I THINK 22 IT MERELY SAYS R /\ D I G A C T I V I T Y LASTE DISPOSAL SITES, 23 OR EXCUSE i,E -- T H E 'r D0 l,E N T I C id . AS I HAVE SAID I I.
24 THE S T A T E t4 E N T , THE WORDIhG THERE IS EVEN LOW LEVEL l
25 RADIOACTIVE UASTE E: I S F O S A L SITES. 5 0fiE PEOPLE l
l l
495 i
1 kEFER TO ThESE RESINS AS VERY LOU RATHER THAN LOW 2 50 lHIS NIGHT bE STILL LESS ACTIVE CATEGCRY UHICH 3 NIGHT ESCAPE THEIR P U it V I E U . IT DEPENDS O t: U H El; 4 THEY DEFIhE.
I 5 (; . IOU UUN*1 KNGU HOW EPA D E F 1 f; E S IT?
1 6 A. hO.
'i (; . iGU'RE FANILIAR LITH ThE LOW LEVEL AT 1
O B A F,N W E L L AND HAhFORDr UASHILGTOi,?
j S A. I KNOB T h /,T SUCh SITES EXIST. I'N NOT l 10 SURE OF ANY LGW LEVEL AT HANFORD. I THINK OF l
11 HANFURD AS A VERY HIGh LEVEL SITE.
l' Q. THERE ARE LOU LEVEL SITES THAT NANDLE f 13 C Olu.E R C I A L LASTE?
l? A. GH, YES.
15 C: . Al.D YOUR U l: D E R S T A N D I N G IS'THAT'S WhAT EPA ,
1 16 NAD IN HIND LHEN T iiE Y ISSUED THOSE REGULATIONS 7 17 A. I LGULD EXPECT TO, YES.
I 18 Q. AND THOSE TYPES OF FACILITIES UOULD 15 COVER -- WOULf DE EXPECTED TC RECEIVE FAR GREATER
! 20 (UAliTITIES OF RADIGACTIVITY THAN THE SITE OUT 4
j 21 hEKE; IS ThAT CORRECT?
i 22 A. YES.
f
'3 .
MR. SILbEht: I LON'T HA\E ANY i 24 OTHER (. U E S T I L L S .
i 25 JUDGE hOYT: DO YOU HAVE ANY 4
t_ . .
t- , .
q
[J -
4S6 1 l
1 1 RED'IRECT, MR. LODGE?
\ n - --
! 3 REDIRECT. EXAMINATION t
i I
- 4 SY MR. LODGE
- -l l
5 0. MR. BIMDER, 'ARE YOU AWAR OF~ANY_U.S.
l
( 6- ENVIRONMENTAL PRdTECTION T E S T I.HG : FOR-CARCINOGENICS 7 ON ANY OF ThE CHEMICALS T H A.T ' Y O U HAVE PATENTEDLORI l
[ -
'l j 8 BEEN INVOLVED IN. PATENTING? ?
j 9 A. I'N NOT AWARE OF ANY GOVERNMENTAL TESTING. j j- d 10 T0XICITY OF ANY OF THESE' PRODUCTS THAT I.HAVE _!
J
.11 . PATENTED. I WOULD EXPECT.THAT SOME H A S B'E E t4 : D O N.E' y
12 ON AT LEAST A CHLORINATED: DESIGN WHICH IS INCLUDED'
~
l
. .. .. Y i 13 IN ONE OF NY PATENTS-WE S O L'D' .T O ' D O W : C H E M I C /5 L . i i - ;
14 SINCE'THEY USE 'I T ON A VER .LARGE SCALE, .I WOULD l l 15 EXPECT S0hE-FEDERAL T t: S T I N G i H A S _B E E N. R E Q U I_ R.E D .
I l
, 16 MR. LODGE: -IlHAVE N.OTHING l l
17 FURTHER.
1E JUDGE H0YT:. V E R Y ' W E L' L . - THANK-l 19 Y O U'. ONE MOMENT. T H A N KL - Y O U , ~ S I R . I THINK-THAT '
20 WE ARE GETTING T0 BARDS ThE: HOUR THAT I.-WOULD.LIKE l
)_ 21 TO CLO!- OUT THIS SESSION.
[ ,
e2 M R .- SILBERG: JUDGE,_ I F .I' M I G H T', '
23 WE HAD A FEU M O R E' ' I T E M S THAT.I_WOULD LIKELTO GET I
24- DR. LINNEMANN --
THAT .I: W O U .L D ' : L I K E TO.GET. F R' O M' ' D R . .
r 25 i
\
LINNEMANN AND-THEN I 'COULD A S K ~ T H A T fi E - B E _ EXCUSED. >
l l
4S7 i
1 JUDGE HOYT: DR. LINNEMANi; A f. D
[ 2 thO ELSE IS GCING TC BE hGT hERE T O l'.G R R O U 't l
3 Mk. SILBERG: I T H I!; K EVERYONE
[
I i
4 ELSE IS TAKEh CARE CF. )
l i 5 dUDGE HOYT: VERY UELL. DR.
i 6 JACKSGN LILL LE lie R E . UE'LL GC CFF THE RECORD O !: E 7 N G iih W T HERE.
b - - -
i S (OFF THE RECORD.)
.i 10 - - -
11 JUCGE HOYT: DURING THE OFF THE 32 h E C O R L- TIME, I LISCUSSEL LITH COUfSEL FOR THE 13 STATE OF Oh10 AND FOR THE LICENSEE AGOUT CERTAIN l
14 EXHIBITS Abb ThE AVAIL /CILITY, MADE AVAILABLE TO ;
IS COUNSEL FOR THE STATE OF OHIO THE COPY OF THE 16 TRANSCRIPT SC ThAT ThEY ii A Y LAVE IT EEFORE ,
l '/ E X A tu l N A T I C l! CR THE RECESS THIS EVENING. NO OTHER 10 FURThER i. A T T E R UAS DISCUSSED. VERY LELL. MR.
1 19 L I N N Ei4 A Ni, YOU ARE STILL UNDER THE SANE GATH ThAT l 26 'r O U TOCK SEVcRAL DAYS AGO. '
21 THE UITNESS: OKAY.
l 22 - - -
l 23 (UITHESS PREtIOUSLY SWORN.)
24 - - -
l 25 l
498
- 1 f. C G E F L I N N E M /.l
- N , N.D. '
l 2 U i- L A ll F U L /. G E , h/\ING B E E t, FRESI005LY S U C F, , U /. S 3 EXAhlNEC AND TESTIFIcD AS FOLLOWS:
1 4 R E D I r, E C T EX/MINATION l
l 5 bY M ic . SILLERG:
l C C. DR. L I i;i. E h /. h N r YESTERDAY O h' 7 CROSS-EXAMIi;ATIGN, t: rt . bRIDEN \l A S ASKED A OUESTIGL E WhETHER IN 5 0t.E PARTS OF TNE COUNTkY GRANITE b/S I
b CGNSIDERED TO bE A VEhY HAhMFUL i2 A T E R I A L LECAUSE i
10 0F ITS \ E it Y hlGH i; A T E OF ENISSIONS. I THINK THAT 11 R E F E R Eii C E !l A S TO RADON EMISSIOiv5.
. 12 1lCULD YOU CALE TO C L im c t: T ON T h /. T 13 STATENEATr FLEASE?
. 14 /x . I i. L U L D N ' T CHARACTERIZE GRANITE OR ,
15 NATURAL oACLGROUND RADIATION OR RADON AS A VERY 16 h /.Z A it D O U S l.A T E P. I A L . ThlE TYPE OF RADIOACTIVITY 17 HfS aEEN A PART OF OUR NATURAL BACKGROUilD S Ili C E i
il THE tlChLD LAS cVOLVELr SOME FOUR EILLION YEARS lb /GO. /ND I ThINK IT'S bEEN, IT'S LEEN I ll THE LAST l 20 FEW i.b il T H S C C t;E TO THE hEDIA A T T E lit I G li ALOUT 21 RADCN; bli I THIIK UE NEED 1C AWAIT HORE STUDIES i 22 C i. THIS.
L 23 THE STUDIES TO DATE ON RADON AND HEALTH 24 EFFECTS hA\h LEEf EITLER NEGATIVE GR I N C O f. C L U S I V E .
I 25 THE EPA, I U N D E R S T /= N D , IS GOING TO EE A LARGE
499 l 1 STUDY ON h lGli RADON AREAS IN tiA I N E r GUT I THINK IT l
l 2 UCULD eE IhAPPRCPkIATE TO LEAVE WITH ThIS bCARD OL 3 LITH THE PUBLIC'S M I ti D THAT RADON IS A SERICUS l
4 H E /. L T h LAZ/RC. I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS.
l 5 O. . OKAY. ALSO t;R . BRIDEN k; A S A S K E .D A 6 (UESTICU AS TO i.hETHER
. IN ThE PAST PEOPLE WHO HA\E 7 LEEl U E' /s R I ! ' G kl A T C H I I; C WITH RADIUM I L L Util N A T t D I
( b DIALS H /. L DEVELOPEC SKIN C A I. C E R /S A RESULT.
l 1
r WILL YOU C O M f'. E N T ON THAT OUESTIONr i l l 10 PLEASE? t 11 A. YES. I hAVE i;EVER SEEN NCR MAVE I EVER l
l l '.
. H E / ,1 b OF A SKIN CANCER AS A RESULT OF THE RADIUh 15 UATCh GR L E A x I ts G A RALIUM L AT Cli DIAL.
14 0. UCULD YOU EXPECTr IS THERE ANY REASON TO l 15 EXPECT ThAT SUCh S K I I; C Ai, C E R S l; I G il T OCCUR?
l i
16 A. I: 0 , T lie R E WOULON'T BE. S K li! CANCERS l
l 17 LENERALLY DEVdLOP AFTER VERY. VERY H I G li DOSES OF lb R A D I A T 10i. . EIThER H I G i: 5IfGLE EXPOSURES IN THE l
l! n U t.L k E D S TO T H C U S /, N L S OF LAL OR V E l; Y 7 VERYr HIGH
'O Th00 SAULS A li D T H O U S A N t: S OF R /, D CHRONIC EXPOSURE I
1 l .1 o v e r. r c s i, b . n t, L I U n 1,ATCh DIALS LO is 0 T PUT GUT t 22 THAT DOSF RATt.
.. 4 r. L . $ILLEkC: I hAVE N0 OThER I
24 OUESTIOflS.
l 25 dULLE h0YY: VERY il E L L .
I f
1 - _ - - - - - - - - - - _
I
- 500 1 fl R . VAN KLEY
- THANK YGU, YOUR 1 i HONCR.
i 3 - - -
l l
( R E C R C S S -E X A ti l l: A T 1014 1 I
l j S cY AR. V Ai; KLEY:
6 C; . I;n . L li? N E h A h h , YOU OLtICUSLY HAVEN'T !
l
)
{ 7 HEARD OF EVERY CASE GF RADIOACTIVITY, RADIOACTIVE l l
l
- L CAUSEC CANCER TM/T HAS EVER CCCURREC, liAVE YOU? l 1/ A. HO, EUT I AM VERY F AllI L i AR UITH THE 10 LITEKATURE lCKLCUIDE Ih THIS.
I 11 0: . 50 ARE D E P Ei!D I N G ON LITERATURE FOR YOUR I
12 0 E S E R V A T I O t; S ? l l 13 A. UELL, CERTAINLY, OR MY O u i! OCSERVATIONS. 1 l
14 0. AND JUST bECAUSE IT l; I G H T NOT BE !
j Ib P U 6 L I bl.E D D C E S t, ' T i,E A N IT i. A b i: ' T OCCURREL, DOES i
l 16 IT?
I 17 A. I T h I i, K Th/T'S TRUE; BUT Ot; THE OTHER j
1 lE HAND, THAT WOULD LE 50 UNUSUAL THAT I
- t-', SURE IT
) l i; LCULU bE P U b L I S ll E E . l t 1 1 -
26 ( ,. L t- T hE /s 3 K YCU ACCUT RADOU, ARE YOU l 5 ,
l l 21 STATING TNA1 RALGN IS NOT HARMFUL?
2 l
l 22 /.. I'.. SAYIhG ThtT T li E EbIDENCE TO DATE I5 1 23 THAT IT IS NOT, I ThlhK AS UAS PUT BY YOURSELF, 4
24 ii k . C O U f; S E L OL , A SEh1005 H E /. L T h 1 ; /. 2 /, R L . I'ti
- i ; S A Y I t;C ThAT'S NOT. AT LEAST THE EVIDENCE TO DATE
]
i 1
l 1 1
i I
l 501 l i
i )
1 1 DOESN'T SUPPORT THAT.
l 2 C. Uh/ T K I t, t OF RADIATION IS El.I T T E D THROUGh 3 RADON. IS IT A GAliMA OR BETA GR ALPHA?
f 4 A. IT'S ALPHAr EETA AND GAhhA.
i l b O. AND THE I;OST HARMFUL OF THOSE ARE kl H I C h ?
6 /.. BELL, IT LEPENDS UPON THE TARGET TISSUE.
1 i 7 IN THt RADON, PARTICULARLYr THdIR ftCST CONCERN IS l
l 6 THE /. L P i . A .
S (. ALL THAT'S E. E C A U S E IT'S THE MOST j 10 P E N E T R A T I l:G 7 l l
I ,
i 11 A. NL. LECAUSE IT'S THE LEASE PENETRAT'NGr '
I le BUT THE TISSUE Ili V C L V E D IS ALSO EASILY PENETRACLE.
13 t.. I Uht.ERSTAbb. NCL, YOU hA\E I I; D I C A T E D f lt THAT THERE ARE STUDIES GOING CN IN MAINE i
l lb CGNCERNIiG L A C O I: ; IS T ii A T CokRECTi '
l 16 A. I UNDERSTAND ThE. EPA IS G O I t'G TO CONLUCT t
'l l 17 STUEIES.
l i
lb ( . /4 hE T' h L L E A 5 0l; THEY /s R E C ul, L U C T I N G Th0SE l
i l 19 STUDIES IS LECAUSE THAT THE LEVELS OF LADON l
LC chlTTaL Aib b E li.u FO Ut.L I fi PEOPLE'S h 01. E S ; IS THAT i
i il COaRECTi l
l 11 A. 's n / Y b 1. I L h T .
I I
i 23 E. f l. D T r. E EPA IS VEhY, OLV10USLYr \ E.; Y F
24 C O h C d hic E L AdOUT Th0SE Lt\ELS OF i. F L, O h r IS THAT 2b CCRRECT?
i
i
\
l 501 l
i 1 D O E S t! ' T SUPPCRT T ri A T . '
l i
i 2 C. th/T KIhU OF R A C I A T I CI: IS Efil T T E D THRCUGH ]
[ 3 RADCN. IS IT A GAliNA OR BETA OR /s L P h /W l
e A. IT'S ALPhAr LETA AND CthhA.
S q. AND THE fl0ST fi ARM F UL OF THOSE ARE WHICH7 l 6 A. LELL, IT L E P E i4 D S UPON THE TARGET TISSUE.
i i 7 IN Thi RADON, PARTICULARLYr THElk i;OST CONCEkN IS 1
- e THE Alt h A .
l l
! L (, . A I. C it; A T ' S CECAUSE IT'S THE F.O S T '
10 P E rs E T i. A T l lE G ?
i l 11 A. t; t e LEC/USE IT'S THE L E/ S E PENETRATING, I
l 12 CUT TliE TISSUE II; V O L VE D IS ALSO EASILY PENETR/ULE.
I 13 (.. . I U f,t E R S T A i4 L . NLWr YGU h /s \ E II; D I C A T E D 14 ThAT THERE ARE STUDIES GOING C f' Ih M A l t; E IS C G ii C E R U ll G RALON; IS Til AT CURRECTi 36 A. I U ti D E R S T A N D ThE. EPA IS G o l l! G TO CONDUCT ,
I 17 S T U Il l E S . '
lb (. /s i, L ThL 1, d A S C l . YliE Y ARL COh0UCTING Th0SE i
19 STUDIES IS t. E C A U S E ThAT Ti.E LEVELS OF RA00N LG chlITcl A T, E u t 14. 6 FOUf.L IN PEOPLE'b h0hES; IS T l! /. T 11 C o d .; L C T i l
- 22. A. Th/T'S ;,1 C h T . '
l i
23 (: . /LU ihE EPA IS V E i, Y , OLV10USLY, \ E .; Y 24 C Ui; C E h N E l. ALOUT Th0Sh LEVELL OF E A l'O h , IS THAT
- 2. :, CORRECT?
1 1
! 502 l
- 1 l
l l
1 A. YESr AS THEY SHOULD BE.
! 2 (: . ArE YO' A li A R E OF ThE R /. L 0 t; C 0 h T A M il4 AT E D i.
2 H0hES IN SOUThEAS1 Oh107 '
i i
i
,i 4 A. NOT PARTICULAR GHIO. I Ah I t. ,
I l }
S F E N N S Y L V /. N I A .
( )
l i
6 Q. bUT YOU ARE A b t F. E T H /1. T THE FRCELENS WITH i
'/ R A 0 0 f; ARE OCCURRING IN O T H E i1 PARTS OF THE COUNTRYi l
j L A. YES. l i
j 9 4 AND ThAT THAT HAS LEEh A NATTER OF
! IC C O N C E !!r; To THE U.S. EPA AS WELLr IS ThAT RIGhTi 4
! 11 A. YES. I DELIEVE IT 15.
I ,
I 12 h ,( . VAN RLEY: I HAVE NO FURTHER 1
13 QUESTIONS. ,
?
14 JULGE HCYT: NR. LLOYD?
15 - - -
]
i l 16 CROSS-EY,AMIDAT10h .
)
i j 17 l5 Y hn. L O C t: E:
i 1
i! lL C.. ARE 'I C U /. \. A R E OF ANY D I A 0 f; O S E S OF CANCER l 1 i I
l l 19 OR RELATED ILLNESSESS OF UORKERS If! U R Al! I U N MINES i
'; 20 IN THE SOUThhEST? ,
I f 11 A. I Al.. AhL THAT'S, O f- COURSE, U H E fi E THE j l .
! 21. C 0i4 C E R N FOR RADON EMANATES. THE PRCOLEM, t ', R . l l
l 23 LCDLE, \.' I T h LOING C A ll C E R STUDIES ON RACOh, AhD I
24 PARTICULARLY l IN M il: E R S , IS ThERE ARE MANY '
l l 2S Cone 0uNLino FACTcRS.
1 l
l ,
L_ 1
1 503 I
l l
1 IN THE MINES YOU ARE D E A L I ti G WITh THREE l 2 POTELTIAL C A L C I N CC E t;I C AGENTS --
R A DO T:, i4 0 S i OF i
l l
3 THESE PEOPLE, A LAkGE MAJORITY SMOKE, AND UITH i 4 FUEL FUAES FRGh THE ls A C h i l; F P Y USED IN [.! M E S , SC 1
2 S IT'S LEEN DIFFICULT TO SORT THOSE THREE. THERE 6 I S ti ' s nuY C;UESTIOh THAT ALL THREE PL/Y A RCLE.
f '/ IT'S A (UESTION OF HCU t;U C H DCES RADON PLAY A U ROLE.
! $ Q. A i; E I ASSUME THAT YGU ARE ALSO ALARE OF j 10 THE DISCOVERY OF U R f N I U t4 TAILINGS SEING USED IN
! .:.1 FOUtLATIONS Ih GP.ANC J U Ti C T I O N , COLORACO /s 14 U t ,5 E R
{ 12 O t- Y E A fs S AtGi
! 12 A. I Ah.
l j 14 C. LITH THE i;i,0 W L E L G E OF THAT AS WELL AS
! 15 R A D 0i: USAGE IN CONSTRUCTION PRACTICES IN i
l l 16 P Elit.S Y L V A h 1 A A li C OTHER PARTS OF THE C O U t. T R Y , YOU j 17 STILL D O rd ' T C Cf; S I D E R --
UhAT IS YOU T H I l; K RADON IS i
[ lb $ 1 M P L 's A l. OVER L L O). f. PULLIC CONCERisi l
15 A. I DON'T SAY IT'S OVER BLOWN. ALL I ' ti l
l 20 S A Y l i. G IS Tii AT I Thl1K WE 11EED TO GET NORE 21 C 0i! C R E T E DATA C E R T A l l!L Y BEFORE UE INDICATE THAT IT 12 IS A SEh10US OR NAJOR HEALTH li A Z /. R C AND PEOPLE
!. 5 SPEhD li U G E , L /, R G E SUES OF H0llE Y O li H C ,4 E S TO TRY TO 24 E L I t.I h A T E ThE AADON P i,0 L L E N .
25 Q. DO YOU KNOW THAT THC STATE OF NEW JERSEY
504 )
l l 1
1 IS EXCAVATING AROUND T li E LASEMENTS AND FOUNDATIONS )
2 0F liOMES IL NEh dEREE) t> E C A U E E GF RALON PROELEMS? i l
3 A. I DO LN C l! THAT, YES.
. e O. A t. L It. L I G li T GF Tii A T , YGU STILL CC NOT l l
< b ThlNK .THAT IT IS YET TIME TO BE CONCERNED I I: A
]
6 P U is L I C NE/.LTH S Eli S E ACOUT THE EFFECTS OF RAD 0b7 i
l 7 A. I T li l N K YCU ARE MISSING THE POINT. I .
- l i
L LELIE\E UE S l;6 U L D EE CONCExhEU, LUT I ONLY WANTEL l t i 1
9 TO CORRECT A POINT THAT IT IS NOT A MAJOR li E A L T h a
l 10 LAZARD AT ThlS POIhT. I 1
l 11 t,R. LCDGE: THALK YOU. I 1; A \ E
]
1
- 12 t; 0 T ri l l: G FURTHER.
13 JUEGE hoYT: VERY HELL. ALL 14 RIGHT. I T H I t.K DM. LINNEMAMi; UILL LEAVE l' S TODAY, l 15 AS I UhbEkSTANL IT. CAN HE BE EXCUEE07 l 16 t;R . t I L L E f: G : YES, PLEASE.
1 17 JUDGE I;0 Y T : DR. LINNENANT., YOU
(
l 10 C /. h LE EXCUSED AND TLANK YOU. IT'S All;0 S T 5:00 l
i 19 O' CLOCK AND bE C Ali ACdOUkN LOW /.F T E R YOU HAVE l 20 TAKEN CARE OF THE EXHIBIT.
El NR. LOLGE: Y O U P. h0NCR, I ALSG 22 HAVE /. COUPLE OF SMALL HOUSEKEEPING fi A T T E i' S , T00.
23 JULGE bcyT: 1. E ' L L TAKE T H E l>; UP l i i I
24 RIGHT NOL.
i 2S MR. VAN KLEi: YOUR E0h0R,
. l
- _= - - - - . - . . _ - _-- . _ . _ - _ . -- - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ - _ - - _ _
1 l
I
? EXEIDIT C TO TAKE b /.C K UITH HIh AND TG LOCATE THE
)
3 PLACES U P O t. \l H I C H THE L/NDFILL CELLS '. ' I L L LE l 4
I 4 PLACEC. AND HE hAS DONE THnT Anu Ii h /4 5 N C t; S M A fi K E D .
6 hk. SILbERC, WOULD 'r O U JUST STIPULATE TO l
7 THE LOCATIGNS O t- THESE Oh ThIS, ON THIS EXHIBIT i 1
6 1ATHEL ThAh HAVING A blTNESS COhE CACK A fi D TALK S- ABOUT THIS.
l
! 10 Nk. SILLERG: il E C 0 G tJ I Z I N G THAT
, l l
. 11 THOSE ARE APPRGXIMATE A l; C NOT SURVEYED L O C A T I Of2 5 ,
I i 1
(
12 oCT THLEE APPROXIHATELY ARE THE C0kRECT LOCATIONS '
I
)
! 13 FOR THE ThaEE oURIAL CELLS. I I
\
l 14 JULGE H0YT: HOU COES THAT I
i 15 D I F t- E R F R Oli T l; E D ii E THAT UAS IN THE T E S T I M 0!i Y 7 i
{ 36 nk. SILLERG: IT'S A CIFFEREUT e
i l l '/ T. A P .
i ?
- lL UULCE h0YT: LIFFEkEh1 ThAN THE r 13 SITE --
t I
I
- 2. 0 iin , blLbEkC
- A D I F F E R E l, Y SITE i
I ,,1 hAr t> n U V I D E L LY E ii . \ /.l; RLEY.
i i
i 22 J U [. 0 L LCYT I HA\EN'T S E Ei. IT.
1 i
23 l.k. V A r. LLEY: THE CIFFERENCE.
, Y O UI, f. 01. C R , l ', IT C 0 lie S F L Cl; A CERTIFICATE l n Af eu C AT Ich rea rAvis-eeSSE tad sHCwS Sone OF Tse i
j
506 1
1 FROPOSEC LOCATIO.NS F C i; THE UhlT T il O / i; D THREE l ? C G i: S T :i U C T I C ;' l h /. T L/S GCING TG CCCUR, SC IT FAS i.
- 3 ADD 11IGN/L .
ITEl',S OF INFORMAT10N.
l 4 douvE h o 'r i : b I Tli THE l
l 5 S T I P U L A T I Ot. THAT F. i? . SILLERC HAS INDICATED, Tii A T ' S l
l 6 AGREEALLE TO- YOUi i ? hs. V A!4 KLEY: ThAT IS A G F. E E / L L E I
t
{ L TO NE.
l r VULUE i.0 Y 1 : THEN LE 1: l L L /; C C E P T 1
4 4
10 Tli A T . YOU C/h h0VE T h /. T INTO E V I D E N C :i AT ThE l
l 11 A F e n b e rt I A T E 1 li.c T H E t; .
i
- 1/ I,u. \Ah !; L L )
- ALL k l Gl;T .
f J .: d U: LE i.C Y i I LELIEVE 'r O U A P. E
'l f
j 14 G O I t: 0 TG I,U V E ALL 100R EXHILITS INTO E V i L ii N C E AT
! Jo iliE S Al.t i ll.L IS LtAT I U is L E R S T / i. b YOU TO SAY f
i
) 36 Y E S T E f. D A Y .
i 17 4
. 1; k . VAN KLEY: i E /= h . WL CAN MO\E l
l IL THE A llil b S I Li; 0- C U F. EXhlLITS INTO EVIDENCE AT THE 10 L N i~ UF T ii E Y O L E l~ 0 L L I S Gl. ' S C /. S E l ii Cil l E F , L I T I. T il E
?. 0 EXCEP4 10 ti OF ThL L t. L S 1hAl LL*nE UOING To b F.
l
]
21 /, U T ri E h 1 I C A T l i4 C LUFSELVES L /, T L R ti.
1
( 2? dbDGE HCY1: UE*LL TAKE /LL Gr l
i l 23 ThE LXFILIlb A t 1 t i. 100 l. A \ L C ol'.P L lil E D Y 0 U ic CASE l id e
i u Cu,,.
m . vAm cu>. TuAT m1u L e rice.
l 1
I
(
507 l
3 1 JULGE hGYT: ALL h I Gi!T . V; E hAVE !
t 2 A I, EVdNIhG S E S S I O.. .
i VERY S h o r, T h/TTEhS.
3 in k . LOLGE:
4 SEVERAL THINGS. tiU t.b E R Cl4 L , I \!OULD LIKE TO i 5 I I; D I C A T E Th/T IT IS t ,1 I iz T Ei: T I O N TO LAIVE ANY
! 1 i 6 PURTHER A P P E AR / tic E Iil P R O C E E D I t:b S r UhlCU 1;E A N S J
, i 1 t i /. T I i; C U L L LIRE TL t.G \ E ThE S.0.5. EXIILITS l
L N/RRED 1 A ls D 2 INTO E k I D E li C E IF THE COMMISS10h i 1 i i
's; I L L ACCEPT T i. E ti AT THIS TINE. A i,0 THEN I WOULD
}
! 10 LINE TO Go OFP TUL R E C O F. D TO DISCUSS T )l C HATTERS.
I I j 11 JULCE hOYT: LET NE IU(.UIRE OF 1
j 12 YLU. D i t> YOU LUuhlT ThCSE COPIES, THOSh COPIE5i 1
4 j ll i.h. LOCbE: I LID 1. 0 T . I LOULL a
} 14 LE l '. O R E T H / !: MAPPY TL P P. O V I D E THEN bY HAIL \lHICh i
] 1 :, LAN LE L Oi,E 10 l'. L is f 0 L. . T C t:C h k C \. . I CAh FRCVICE 16 THEh IN ThE I.A I L T o le.O R R O U .
l )) J U L G L- h0YT: Y0U t i'. E t. L T GCING 1
lb TO I L C U i< P 0 h t. T i- ThEi; l i4 T O ThL i,E C U R L't
]
I 3L ..a. LGLuE. IS THERE A COPIER
\
I
,. O l i /. L L Y . I DID SUohlT 1 R I P L I C /. T L COP 1ES.
t
,I 21 JULGL i>L Y T : I'VE t. L \ E P. LEEN 1 14
) 24 S A l;L U S I' Y i= E P U n t .
. I C / t< ' T TELL YCU -- I 'I; SURL I
Lc ThlL t. L i li c.i, CO Ll:t t L C Ai. lELL YOU. DO 10U k i-: C U t.h.
i j ': 4; L'i! Cl.i i
1 i
<L ti u . L0 bbl: U r- LILL t3 h / E l. E TO )
4
, , - - ~ . ~ ~ ~ . _ , - , - - - - - - - ..------~-,------------~---------w,~~-,-------n- ~ , - , + - - - -
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! 508 l
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- 21 CISCUSS TUO QUICK l.ATTERS. l l
22 JULLE I.G Y T : ALL RIGhT. UF LILL 4
1 1 23 LO OFr ThE RECORD.
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7 DISCUSSED A! D THE F I L I I;G OF URIEFS WILL LE 30 DAYS l I
b P50h ThE FERIGC YET TO BE D E T E R M I l. E D .
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' 11 LE S A T U ii b A Y THE 6 Tli OF S E P T E tie E R..
12 JUDGE h0YT- THEN UE'LL NAKE IT
- 13 rRILAY Ti;E ETH. YOU S H O U L Cil ' T hAVE TEMPTED ME.
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14 bE LCULL CC POk AGi D A Y IN A CASE LIKE THAT.
j la VERY LELL. i.E WILL A D d O U R t! U t! T I L 7:00 l 4
16 0'CLCCK Th15 E V E l: I N G . UE'LL CLLSE Th15 RECORD FOR I I !
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( 2
, I f LE, KENDRA E. JOHNSTON AND CYNTHIA d. )
l l 4 NEFF, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTEkS A ti D I
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! G HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING IS A TRUE AND i l
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{ L U t4 I T E D STATLS OF AhERICA 1.UCLEAR REGULATORY :
! l t J j 9 C Ol! M I S S I O N ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING DOARD, ON l i
l i 10 WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 6, 11: L 6 , AS REPOklEC BY US IN '
k 11 STENOTYPE AND TRANSCRICED BY US OR UNDER OUR l 4
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12 SUPER \lSION. I 4
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KENDRA W L .-.
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! 16 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE STATE OF O li l O l l/
l hY C O ht;I S S I Oi; EXFIRES: JULY 13, l i, 0 ~i j 10 19 i
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? 21 CYN HIA J. NCFF, R . P . F. .
j NCTARY PUBLIC I; AND FOR O'
THE STATE OF 0111 0 l E3 NY C O t.h l S S 1 0 ?-: E X E Ii: E S ? NC\ EMBER L, 1906 i
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Davis-Besse Nuclear Power Station
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I LOG OF BORING NO.
LAND BURIAL SITE--0 AVIS-BESSE NUCLEAR POWER STATION--0AK HARBOR, OHI0 -
sontwo LocAfiot As snown on boring location plan DATESTAATeo; 4-15-86 -
sunF Act EttvArion -- DATE condet 7to: 4-15-86 s,aavv ossemirrio o, uar8mean, eawse e6om e a i eto m 40 4 S aaert e e ' One ( ,87 CA fvP. 04 P r.e g a napt e m IC Q a g a g C.
Topsoil 0.0' --
.. 5, ._
4 7 S ti f f brown and gray clay , some s t i t 1A 1.0- 2.5 13 trace of sand, toist --
- 1' 2A 4.0- 5.5 4- 6-10 16 --
~
6.0' '
=.
Very stif f brown and gray clay, some 3A 6.5- 8.0 6 9 16 _g E F isilt, some sand, race of gravel, --=
' { (moist
!!0 l(Becomes hard at 7.5') 4A 9.0-10.5 8-14-20 24
, ' 11.09 '
p lHard gray s il t , some sand, some clay' 11.5-13.0 10-16-34
," trace of gravel, molst SA l 50
" l D' (With rock fragments at 15.0') , 6A 14.0-15.5 18-24-76 ! '.00 10 O
7A 16.5-17.0 100/2" ! 1:0+
_- k,xenorea itrestnne 1 urn
-- . Auger refusal and bottom of boring at 17.0' i i
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- ' NOTE
- Baring backftlled with cement 4 bentonite grout, r~ \
l l l I usv oo. HoIlow Auger vsAram OestavAflomst fvPe SAAIPt8A:
1 None -
r e c . cia BK/CR None CourketsONoerta e l
so**o: 39680 ..., ..... 0.5 ,,,,15.6 ,. ,,,,,,, ,,,,
,,,, 80W5ER - MORNEA
- Taken in augers.
1 9,p
LOG OF BORING NO. 2 LAND BURIAL SITE--0 AVIS-BESSE NUCLEAR POWER STATION--0AX HARBOR, OHIO soniNo Location: As shown on boring location plan DATE TAnTEo: 4-15-86 _
suMF ACE ELEVATION: -- DATE COMPLETEO: 4-16-86 s,..,v. os.cawrion o, warensat i sawte sto= esa =, . ee sa t om
o e sawte . o
eves ospew s.wssa comemee. .
- 0. 0 ' i To ps o i l 1.5' i
, Sti f f brown and gray clay and sil t, 1A 1.0- 2.5 4 9 14 jtraceofsand, moist ,
i !
5' ! LC 4 0- 6.0 12"
- L.- e.0,l 2A 6.0- 7.5 5- 7-11 18 .
l !
l "
' very s ti f f brown and gray c1'aj silt, some sand, trace of graveI,some 3A 9.0-10.5 5-11-15 26 7g, jmotst m h 37 '3o
_ l" /ery stiff gray clay, some silt, 2C 11.5-13.0 20" g g .1 some sand, trace of gravel, moist P
Ward gray clay and silt and sand, 4A 14.0-15.5 55-39-61 ,
100 E rices of gravel and rock fragments' 16.5-17.0 100/5" 4
~
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SA ,
'. 0 0 +
aestnered limestone, wet l l ,
~ I au ger refusal at 18.5' -
B o t t om c f bo r i ng a t 18. 5 ' ,
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NOTE Boring backfilled with cementtbentonl1te grout.
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wet e Hol1ow Augers warsa ossenvationes tves sAnarsen:
...v..t oser. None i . p g , , g oo.,
l f eca.sec" BK/CR couets fio= o f None-- --
-a . .r ..re. - e ik u .. e-et.....
39630 53.5 0.55
,,,, 80WSER - MORNER _
_a
LOG OF BORING NO. 3 LAND BURIAL SITE--DAVIS-BESSE NUCLEAR POWER STATION--0AX HARBOR, OHIO soRING LOCATtoN As shown on boring location plan DATE sTAATeo: 4-16-86 surf Act ELEVATION: DATEcoMPLETEO: 4-16-86 s...,v oescRimon oc mis AsAt . e
.64*. a "=f,.ty
.ves osava s.uessa coa.a.c.
0.0lTopsoil 1.01
- Very stiff brown and gray clay, some 1A 1.0- 2.5 6- 6-11 17
! silt, trace of sand, moist IC 3.0- 5.0 24" 5.0' 2A 5.0- 6.5 12-15-20 35
_ fardbrownclay,somesilt, some sand, trace of gravel, moist
_ j 3A 6.5- 8.0 9-12-19 31 l
d' 10.5 2C 9.0-10.5 18"
_ Yery hard gray clay, some silt, some sand, trace of gravel with rock 4A '0.5-12.0 1
11-22-28 50 i _ 13.3'Tragments, moist
[ Very nard gray clay and silt and p~ . sand, traces of gravel and rock l 5A 14.0-15.5 29-75 100 16.5'If"i9**"E5'
- ISE I Weatherea iimestone, wet 6A 16.5-17.0 100/1" 100+
I-~ (Auger refusal at 17.0') !
F- Bottom of coring at 17.0' F- i L- !
p- -
F ! NOTE: Boring bac kfilled wi th :ementabenton ite grout. l l !
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ustwoo- Hollow Auger WArem oe84 AVArto8se f rPe SA4.Pt4R:
...,..t ...,5. S ' 516. 5 ' ( hea y v ) x .s., woo
C"*'*"
BK/CR ,,,,,,,,,,, 4,a'* ,.
3ge80 o . . . . . . . . E .4.s_. < . .t......
J'Yaken in augers.
!!!-3
T LOG OF 80 RING NO. 4 LAND BURIAL SITE--DAVIS-BESSE NUCLEAR POWER STATION--0AX HAR80R, OHIO sonimo Loc 4 Tion: As shown on boring location plan DATE STARTED: 4-16-86 surf ACE ELEV ATION: OATE COMPLETED: 4*16-06 sema,vu 048' AIFTIC88 Of 44ArEn8AL SAmePtd stone P.m - as' st ow aso e t aaseg g e" oN ist
,vPt 04PTM Saw'LGA Com. aom
. c.
3.0'!Toosoil
- 1. 0 ' t
{
, ! 5ti f f brown and gray clay, some silt, IA 1.0- 2.5 3- 4-10 14 p
r ltraceofsand,t.oist i
L 5.0'Il 2A 4.0- 5.5 5-10-17 27 l Very sti f f brown and gray clay, some ;
~
! sard , sore s i l t , trace of gravel, r ~
i moist IC 6.5- 8.5 24" g l
7g, l 3A 9.0-10.5 11-19-27 46 L
~'2'0" '
4A 11.5-13.0 12-19-38 57 nar,e gray cl ay , some silt, some sand, 2C 13.5-14.0 4" trace of gravel, moist 75',5.3 .
,1
..lth a some varves at 15.0,)
SA 14.0-15.5 26-43-57/3" 100+
-- aeatnered ;1mestone, wet Auger 6A '6.5-17.5
. 78-100/4" ;30+
re fusal at 17. 5 ')
- Bo ttom o f bor ing a t 17.5' I
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_ NOTE Bor I nq bac k f 11 l ed ai th cementhbentor ite grout.
1 usv oo "o11cw Augers wArea oesenvanoese two euesen:
''''"" * ^~ " ' " ' ' * "
r ec> .cian BK/CR 3 COWpt. ?sO*e OE PTM e.
- m e0 ....M
..... g ..54 _ - ... .. ,...
,,,, DOWSEA - MORNER
- Takeri i n augers.
5 I LOG OF SCRING NO.
I LAND SURIAL SITE--0 AVIS-BESSE NUCLEAR POWER STATION--0AX HAR8OR, OHIO
. g,g g7, As shown on boring location plan DATEsTAntto. 4-17-86 OATE COnePtETEO:
4-17-86 sunF ACE ELEVATIOm o
. . 19 oescai m on os uAtans n e ,w 6e e6 owe ne a w etomo
,,o. . s aws e e o= ,ev om eves osava eauesea comemee.
0.0'!(FILL) Toosoil, some crushed stone l.0*l 1A 1.0- 2.0 30-70 100
~
2.0' '(FILL) Very dense crushed stone and Mstityclay _
I(FILL) Stiff b-own and gray clay and 4.0 silt, some sand (possible fill).
1C 4.0- 6.0 12"
- ist Stiff brown and gray clay, some silt, 2A 6.0- 7.5 4 9 15 *
- 8.0'l trace of sand, moist g
lery s ti f f brown cl ay , some sand, 2C 8.5-10.5 24"
_10' some silt, trace of gravel, moist il O' 3A 10.5-12.0 11-15-20 35 ra rd g ray c l ay , some s il t , some sand, trace of gravel, moist p (witn cobbles from 11-11.5')
, pitn some rock fra nts at 12.0') 4A 14.0-15.5 20-33-67/2" 100+
,'q'.s.3,, , (Becomes sandy st 14 ,)
- ae s tP.e red 't?estone
- Auger refusal at 16.5')
scttomof boring at 16.5' l
r I r--
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l P i f
I NOTE. Boring backfilled with cement. bentonite grout.
l f
wa r oo. sol 1ow Augers wAvea oesenvarions tyresAamessa:
'=ivias oest= 8. 5 ' ( um) x .. , s , , ,,o.,
,,, ,,, g g cowserio= osava e.
'08 "O 38680 ose'- .e ve a 24. 7 5 .e 4.5' e. e,e6e,vues
,,,, SOWSER - MORNEA
- Taken in augers. ,,,,g
- -E The Toledo Edison
- pany
. Davis-Besse Certificate A;;11 ation g backfill. These include the borated water storage tank, electric -
_' manholes, diesel oil stcrase tank, and the service water piping manhcles, d In all cases, the factor-of-safety of ultimate bearing capacity to maximum contact stress was greater than five. These data are included in Table 1302 3 I
3ased On the gra:fation of the backfill material (crushi.d granular
- g) J material Or glacial till) and placement criteria, Categ:ry : backfill 1
.c vill not underge differential conso'idatien or liquefaction under j
the effects Of the vibratory notions of the safe shutdev5 earthquake.
Ocnsequent'y, there 10 no potential for these earthquake-induced 5
phenctens to cauce instabi'ity of the Categor/- : backfill beneath lh the foundati:ns of the station.
Excavation and Backfill J Plan and pr files cf structural backfill are presented in Figure 1302-I!-19, 7 4
Structural backfill in the station area vill consist of granular material Obtained fr:m off-site quarries and/or reccepactci Cacial L till from terrow excavations. "
~
Ctructural backfill is to be placed in icose lift thicknesses ranging fr:m 12 ir.. in large work areas to 6 in. in stall verk areas.
Structural tackfill is te be compacte
powdert the chlonde salt of a banc anion exchange resin, a creased bleeding tende due to hypeprothmmbinemia cholesterol lowenng agent, is intended for oral admiaen- 8oeisted mth Vitamin de6ciency Ris m!! maus n-tion Cholestyramine resan is quite hydrophthc. but maoluble spond promptly to parenteral Vitamin K iand recurrences 4 in water The cholestyramine rumn in QUEb7RAN is not can be prewntad by oral aAmia>=tration of Vitamin K Re-duction of serum or red cell folate has baen reported over e ,[ ,hj, absorbed from the &sustive tract N:ne grams of ...
QUESTRAN Preder contain 4 grams of anhydrous long tenn = Amin =tratma of QLMN Supplementation .
cholestyramine resin Itis represented by the fouomns mth folic acid should be considered in these cassa There is a pommbibty that prolonged use of QUESTRAN.
gructura.l
=
formula. - since it is a chlonde form of anson enchange resin may p e-duce hyperchionmic acidosis. This woot cepecially be true
...-CM %-==CM a=== Ca6g% in younger and smaller patients whe% the relative dosage may be higher.
QUESTRAN may produce or woreer -nieting constipe-taonL DonagT abouId be reduced o' tha ' -cd in such cusa Fecalimpactico and aggravation of b , noids may occur.
Every effort shoolbe made to avert a m constipstaan and
-C Na-C" - ** C3'2 'M 8
its inhemnt problems in those patient. = .b chzucauy symp-
-e tomatic mronary artery disease.
Representation of structure of main pulymene groups This product contains FD&C YeDow 5 <taatratine)whneh his product contains the foUowmg inactrie mgmbents- may cause allergiotype reactwas n:duding bronchial acacia, citnc acid. II)&C Yellow Na 5 (tartrannen, FD&C asthma) in certain susceptiW indeala Although the Yellow Na 6, navor (natural anhrtificiaD, polyearbate 80, overall incidence of FD&C Yellow No e tartrariner senatie-propylene glycol alginata, and sacrosa. ity in the general population is low, it in frequently seen in Clinical Pharmacology: Cholesterol is probably the sole patients who also have aspirin hyperaer.sitivity.
precursor of bile acadt During normal d.gestaan, bue ends information for Penentsc Inform your phya nan if you are are scented into the intestinal A major portaan of the bile pregnant or plan to become pregnant or are breast feeding acids is absorbed from the intestinal tract and returned to Dnnk plenty of fluids and mix each Sgram &se c(
the liver via the enterchepatic circulation Only very small QUESTRAN Powder in at least 2 to 6 ounces of fluid before amounta of bde acids an found in normal serum- tding.
QUESTRAN resin adsorbs and ccanb:nas mth the bde acida Laboretory Testec Serum cholestero! levels abc dd be deter-in the intestine to form an insoluble cornpies whach a ex- mined fnquently during the 6rst few ex,r.ths of therapy and cretad in the faces This results in a partial removal of bde penodically thereafter. Serum trig!y;ende leve:s shouir be G acids fiem the enterchepntic circulation by preventing their absorption.
m increased fecalloss of bde acide due to QUESTRAN ad-muustration leads to an increased omdation of cholesterol to measund perindnHy to detect whether signifacant chansen have occurred.
orug In%,ettonse QUHTTRAN may delay or reduce the absorption ofconcomitant oral medication such as phenylbr bde acids, a decrease m beta liporrotetn or low density lipo- tasona, warfarta, chloror hiande facidie), as well as tetrary-protein plaama levels and a decrease in serum harol cline, penicilha G, phenobartutal, thyroid and thyroxirw levels Although in man QUESTRAN (cholestyrema resuu preparatione and digitalis W discontinuance cn' produces an increase in hepatic synthems of cholesterol. QUESTRAN tcholestyramme remn' could per a hazard to plasma cholesterol levels fall health if a potentially toxic drug such as d.gitalis has been la patients with partial bC' obstruction,the reduction of titrated to a maintenance level while the patient was serum bde acid levels by QLesnd reducme excess bue taking QUETRAN.
acids deposited in the dermal tarue mth resultant decrease Because cholentyramine binds bue meida, QUESTRAN may in prurttua. interfere mth normal fat digwtion and absorption and thus Indications and Usage D QUE!rrRAN is indacntad as may prevent absorption of fat soluble viramina such as A D adjunctive therapy to diet for the rufean of elevated and K. When QUE!rrRAN is given for long periods of tune, serum cholesterolin patients with hypertholester- concomitant supplementation with water miamhle (or paren-olemia (elevated low density hpoprotein L] cholesteroD teral) form of vitamina A and D abould be considerno who do not respond adequately to diet QUE!rTRAN may be SLNCE Qut#TR A*I MAY BLND (7tHER DRUGS GIVEN useful to lower LDL cholestarol in pataents who also have CONCURRENTLY. PATIENTS SHOUIE TAKE (7THER hypertnglycendemia, but it is not indicated where hypertr> DRUGS AT LEAST ONE HOUR BEFORE OR 4-6 HOURS glyceridemia is the abnormality of most concern- AFTER QUESTR AN iOR AT AS GREAT AN INTERVAL AS In a large, placebo <ontrollad. multi <hnic study, the IJtC POSSIBLE)10 AVOIDIMPEDLNG THEIR ABSORPTION.
CPPI*, hypercholesterolemic subjecta treated with QUES- Csreinocenoem. Mutageme6s ans Impelrment e8 Fort key:In TRAN had significant reductions in total and low 4ensity studies conducted in rats in which cholestpamine rean was Lpoprotein cholesteroliLDLCL Over the arven-year study used as a tool to investigate the role of vanous intastinal period the QUESTRAN group expenenced a 19% reduction factors, such me fat, bue salta and microbial flors. in the de-in the combined rate of coronary heart disease death plus welcpment of intestinal tumore miuced by potent cartunc>
non-fatal myocardial infarction (cumulatave incidences of gena, the incidence of such tumore was observed to be greater 7% Questran and 8 6% placebot h sibycts included in in cholastyramine resin treated rats than in control ratet the study were middle-aged men (age 3M9) with serum cho- N nlevance of this laboratory obnervation from studies in Iseterol levels above 265 mg/d! and no previous history of rats to the clinical use of QUESTRAN is not known. In the heart disease It is not clear to = Nit extent thee findings can LRC4 PPT study referred to above, the total incide nee of be extrapolated to other segments of the by./ ' " -
- fatal and non-fatal neoplasms was similar in both treatment mic population not studia:L grousn When the many different catagonse of tumore are Dietary therapy speci5c for the type of hyperLpoproteine- examined, vanous alimentary system cancers were same-aus is the initial treatment of choice N== body weght what more prevalent in the cholastyramine group N small may be an important factor and calonc reatnctaan for weight numbers and the muftiple catagones prevent conclusions normabataan should be addressed pnar to dmg thnespy in from being drawn. However, in view of the fact that cholas-the overweght h use of drugs abound be canadered only tyramine resin is confined to the GI tract and not absorbed, when reasonable attempts have been made to obta:n sats- and in light of the animal experimenta referred to above, 8 factory resulta mth non<1 rug methoda If the 4a-a ult >
mately is to use drugs, the pataant should be instructed that thas does not reduce the importance of adhunns to dist-
- 2) QUESTRAN is indwated for the rehof of pruntus asoct-ated mth partial biliary obstructaan, QUESITAN has been further follow-up of the LRCCPPT partacipanta is planned for causeepselfic mortality and cancer morbuhty.
pregnancy- Since QUESTRAN is not absorbed systemi-cally, it is not expseted to cause fetal harm when mAm:nne-tered during pregnancy in recommended damassa There a a, shown to have a vanable effect on serum cholanteral in thee however, no adequate and well controlled studass in pree-patienta Patients eth prunary bdaary carrhose may exhalnt nant women and the known interference nth absorptaon of an elevated cholesterol as part of their A- fat soluble viramina may be det.:ucental even in the pressnee Contraindicationes QL M 4 is contrauMad in of supplementataan.
patients eth catcplete baiary obstruction where bde is not Nuro6ng Motherer Coution abound be esernead when secreted into the intastina and in those imiividi,als who have QUESTRAN is administered to a nuretag mother. N pan.
PDR % @ Alwrys R mc ; o%yV i con: ult revisions pg g y /[
ble lack of proper vitamm almomtmo decnbad h now of RtDUcTioN IN cMOttSTEROL nancy" section may have en affect on aurmag ,o REoucto= m CORONARY HEART Pometric Usa As expmecco in infants and g DISEASE RISK
. 'cle S itad, a precucal damage sche 6de has not base Total Sd Reductaan In calcularmg pe6atne damage,44 4 mg of ar.h Cholesterol m CHD Rak
(, C k [ / { tyramme resa are contained in 100 ans of N effects of long term drug ad=Wtaa e og No.
439 496 Lowenng 44%
11 5 %
10 9 %
261%
effect in "d"a* lowend chotseterol levels a 39 3 %
g patients, are unknow1L 965 19 0 %
g ( [k} Adverse Reactions N most = man adven 12put Raeserch Clinxa Coronary Pnmary Pre constipetaout When used as a cholesterol Rasulta @ Reduction m Intidence of Coronary preaspamme factore for most complaints d (ID N Relatenslup of R,ducuan m M h- high done and inenesed age (more than so yes, Curonary Heart Ikasene to Cholesterol towenos instances of conscpataan are toind, trarment, eng C4 =ry.m 4 g g 251 351 474-fM - h-with conwntional therapy Soan patente reges d.crea.s in dosage o, decontmonon of %.
Imm Frequent Adverse Ranctaons Abdonunal essa fistulence, nausea,venutms.6arrben hhg 3 m6gestive feelms and stanterrhea. bleedmg tusememl to hypoprothrombmemia (Vitamin K defloanryt et denenm)
Vitamin A tone case of night bhndness reportet auth l y-ciascies, byperchloremic scadoms m chilime, og ,
rash and irntataan of the sk2n. tongue and persmugg One tan month old baby with biliary strina had og tion prieumed to be due to QUESTRAN V .
l rista) after thrw days =dmmatistion c(9 g*sas 44 developed acute mtastma! serais and dmL Occamonal calcond m-r.arial has been observed la ary trea, includ:ng calcification of the gall bladdmL taants to whorn cholentyramme renn has been pum
+
ever,this may be a man 2fantation of the hver drug related One patient experwnced biliary colic on each of mona on which he toc 4 QUESTRAN. One patent as acute abdominal symptom complex was fened as
~*
pasty mass" in the transverse colon on t+sy-Other events (not necommanly drug-related) repsend ep taents takmg QUESTRAN include:
Gastrointast.nal-Glencial bleedmg. black sisuk rhoidal blandmg. bleeding from known duodenal skuh&
phassa. hiccupa. ulcer attack, sour tasta, pancam8sk 88 pain. 6vertacuhtm 0 Hematologie-Decnesed prothrombtn tien, suuW anemia.
Hypereenativity-Urticana, asthma, wheetag. shusess8 breatit Musculoakeletal Rad ache, muscle and joint puma 888 tis.
Neurologic-Headache, anxiety, vertigo, dissman tinnatus, syncope, drowsiness, femoral nerve pan.
sa Eye-Uweita Renal-Hematuria, dysuna, burnt odor to ur1am Miscellaneous-Weight loma, weight gain, incremeld ewollen glanda, edema, dental bleedag Overdammes Overdosage of QUISTRAN has m8 g reported should overocange occur, how.wr.tf= d88 taal harm would te obstructaan of the gastrom ne location of such potential obstructaan, the structaan, and the presence or absence of nor1nal 38 .
would deternum trestment Daense and AA==hw ation: ne does is one packet or one scoopful 19 grams of Powder centain 4 grams of anhydrous cholist one to six times daily. Dcance may be ad;ustad as j, meet the patient's nesda.
QUESTR AN ehautd not be taken in its dry form QUESTRAN Powder wtth weier er other W Ingesting See Properetten instructionsL Proporstics N color of Qt.HTRAN 4 remin) may vary somewhat from batet to batch. 88 i ation does not af'ect the performance c(tbs
, the contents of one packst or one led i QUEST 1 TAN in a giam or cup. Add 2-6 ounce the non carbonated beverage of your chaus -r
, uniform commstancy.
QUESTRAN may also be mixed mth lughly M l pulpy fruits mth a high moisture content such s' or crushed pineapple How Sapphea QUISTRAN is available in 91 gram packets sad in me contammg 3~8 grams of QUESTRAN Powder contain 4 grasm 8' ;
cholestyramme resta.
- NDC 008~48041 Cartons d 50 packets NDC 008728G06 Cans 3"8 gm Chatent Studies N NDI has concluded a 1 dom 2an. doublettind placeboantrousd studf* 8 rummarer chnus on the effect oflower: rig plass8 on corot.ary beart 6ssese 4CHD) risk ithe ruk 8I nary death or non fatal myocar6al mfM lesterol was lowered by a combinataoa of a tarol4cwenns dast and QUESTRAN The dos
- tionship between the amount of QUESTRAN the lowenne of total plasma cholsterol, and th' CHD nok is -rmarised below- _ _ _ _ _ _ _, __
t ibh bD 1914 [ b Pe LEV 5PHEr Winthrop-Broort-Cont.
I Dusteested tn Wi nthndesse Dmsar c( 9terLr4 D us Inc gjuminum carbonata Magnesum hydronde should not be 1 h*a Ytfri hT 100lf- eneed M KAYmLATE N came d paw mM Descr-Manufamw rman ca eetrure has been reported m a pauent mth chrenic hypwal 1
mW cemta of rena; raJure who was gwen KAYEXAIATE mth magnemum hydronde as lamst;ve Aao, the mmujtaneous II ora! admmistratwo of KAYEXALATE with nonaNorhable y"? = M6onde n~ cat on4onatmg antac da and !arauves may reduce the rw inoproeoreaol hydroJNonde tab 6ets a a potaan2am exchange capability
, SIT 5 '/ Precauuons: Caution e advtaed when KAYEXALATE
, e admmistered to patients who cannot tolerate even a small Each tan co . K mg or 15 apte o' hydre .ncrease m sodium lands se nevm congest;se heart faJure,
, chlop6*fsped'5 d tegr ..gbase cons / ohactme sevm hypertecaton, or marked edemai In such instanas maalGr.r modiurn sod: - 'tsa! fit. /rg per tah a* compensatory restrutaan of sodaum intake frum other antaoradant stard ta1
'9 sou-ces may be tn6catad
, How T*uppbed/
' / If consupatwo ocrurs, pauents should be treated with norb-ISUPRE1 GadSSE N 1 - %ttle ,/ mi from to to I mL of 70 percent syrup every two hours or N' ' ~ #W / as needed to produce one or two watery stools dady1, a mee ISU ' GIDSSE315 mg trate o' '" '-
wre whach also reduces any tendency to focal impactwo Q yy Adverse Reacuonat KAYEXALATE may cause stee degne of gastric trntation Amorem:a, nausea womatmg. and const2patwo may accur espectally if h2gh daens are given.
KAYEX ALATE - B Alm hnokalemia. hypocalamta. and signdicant so6am beend o' oodium po'ysr vreae suMonate USP retention may occur Octaa3nally d2arrhee develoss 1.arge I.
dames .a elderly tndmduals may cause feml impaction 'see Cation-Enchange Rasm Precautens: Dus effect may be obvtatad through usage 4 the ream m enemas as desenbed under Dconge and Admin.
trat;on bteetma: obstructaan due to concreuons d alu-Desertpuon h drag u a bgh' brnwr. tc b-ewt fme4 m num hydrosioe, w hen used tn ;ombmauon w th pound powdeme fortr of auderr polvswrene sdfona.e a KAYROTE. has Wen mported cauor*+mchange res r prepared tr the m6urr phase w.it at Damage and Administratus Suspenamon of tbs drug ap te 1 . The y PMW W not stond WOM M hours content u appremma'f a IT mg '41 mEq pe gran of th, N average dady adult dame of the reatn a 15 g tc 60 g Tbs drug is best pmvided by admmistering 15 g 'approatmately 4 letel Act3on As LM nsz paance along 19 mtestme or a re teaspoons M KAYEXALATE. one to four times dady One ta.ned m tM cuor aher admmat-anor by enema tu no gram f KAYEXALATE contams 41 mEq of soeum, one -
de mns an pa-i.a' y re.ee< and a , repiacec bs pouu. icvel teaspoon contams appronmately 3.5 g of sm mru For tw m w pr tha a-bor occun LT. the kF+ KAYEXALATE and 15 mEq of so6um ' A heapir.g teaspoon m tesune .h.cr enc-ete. potaar, urr sons te a g-eater 04 " may contain as mucb .s 10 g to 17 g of KAYEXALATE.
than doce tN srr.a! triecr e The e&enO o' this p-xvne a brand of so6um pc,1ystyrene sulfonate > Smco the un me hrratec and anpmedar s vanable !! cornmonly app on' e%ency d so6um-potassium excharp noms is apprcx2 mates th, orde of 13 pe ver.t but the rar4e u en tam tha- mateiy 13 percent. about une third a( the rmn's actual so derm,t:ye m6ce. M esec~@ balance must be clearty mor-6m mntent a betng debvered to the body nond Indicataon KAYEXALATE e m6cated fo the tnatment in amaller chudren and infants lower desce abould be en ploved by usms as a gude a rate of 1 mEq of potassium per
, ce effecuve k=ering of se-urr. potamurr Fam d &nn as b h fw huon mth KATTXALATI may take boars u days, tnetmen. Each dose should be given as a suspension m a small quan.
uty of water or. for greater pelatabahty. in syrup N mtt thm dna6 mmne may be mauhent tc rap da correc.
severe bvperka,em.a amonated with statee of rap.c unsw amount of fluad asaaily ranges from m mL to 100 mL de-breakdowt ieg bu-ns and rena: fadare or hyperaakmaa er pendag oc use dame, or may be atmph determined by allow marked as tc consutute a medica: emergency Therefon mg 3 mL tc 4 mL per gram of ream Sorktol rnay be admins other derm21.ve messarea mcludmg 6a!vsa should alwan te ed 2 order to combat mnsupauen be considered and may be imperative N resta may be mtroduced mto the stomach through a Senous pota.w a deficieno car, accur fu piasuc tube ancL if destnd. mixed mth a 6et appropnate for KAYEXALATE the-sps N efice' mus be ea ef.Jh cor a patent m cenal faJuce trobed N rumm may also k gwen. although mth less effectm cact 24by hourfreq.:.rt perdereurr Stncepotas:urr mt-aceUda detetninataons patassur- withtde[ resWta n an enema conmatmg 'or adWta d 30 g to 'O g ev eienes e not m!ws.n reflected ey sen.m potamm newh the cry sa bours Each dar is adm.niste ed as a warta emulsion nevei at wbcb treatment mtr KAYEXALATE abould be m -
d d gm Me e m 6sconttrued inust be dete-mmM mdmdualh for enct pe tien- Important side it maair4 tha dete mmataw an the sorNtol N emaision should be agitated gently durmg as pauer::i chnica: con 6uer and electroca-diag-ar Earh -trataon N enema anould be reta.nad as long as pnese cimica' signs of severe brpvaalerran include a patterr. or W and Wed h a cleansmg mma.
trntabm confuamr, and deisyd though' Prmum Ee % h an W &anning mma. a d Wge mae hnch car 6ar aphicalh severe hypokalemia e ofter asoc.atec 3 rubber tube is maerted tnto the ectum for a istance of mtr a lengthened QT tr, ten a moerang flatten.r4 w to about Y cm. mth the up weU mto the sigmoid colm, and version of the T = ave and prommen 1l wovce Alat car 6a: taped in place N ream a then suspended in the approprv arrhythmian may occur such as p emat ru e atrA noda. anc ase amount of aquemas vehicle at body temperature and in.
,,ntnedar contract.ons and supraventncWar and ventru traduced by gravity whde the particles are kept ta suspen ular tachyca d.as N tong efMe of dgta'u en Lheh k een by stirnng N suspenson is flushed mth 50 ml or 100 be exaggerated Ma ked bvpokalemia car: ak be mar.ifestec smL of f'uad. foUowing which the tube a clamped and ieft in bs severe muscle weakneen at times extentr4 mu frank place If back leslage occurs. the h.ps are elevated oc ptilows paralysm er a knee < hest pimation a taken temporartly A somewhat I.ake aF catior,+ change nums KAYEXALATI end kl theker suspenaaon may be used. but care should be taken tal:) selective (fo potaa6.um m ite netmna and ama. that oc paste a formed. because the latter has a gvvatly re-amar:ta of other catora such ac magnesnarr and calce Amordagh patiente heed endange sur' ace and wW k paruuW d'arme d car alar be last dann6 tnetment recemng KAiEXALATE ahoald be mentond fm al appb cabw eiectrofvte datMancee System.c alkakste has beer mgmond de for seveW h J possMe h the & a rey'rted a8 ter cauor4xchange restru mere adsmh trrtgated mth nonai6um containmg solutaan at brdy ten oralty m combmauer. mtr nonabsorbable cataor donatmg pera re e order to remove the maar Two quarts of % stung aetacade and immat ves suct as magms:arr hydroxio, ane sol not may be necessarv N ret rns are drained con-y- b a Y w mm N .ntensity and durauon of therapy depend upon the as-Continued or' r'est Pe9* my ,ng .,na, g gg,,g,;,,,
EAYEXALATE. brand of su6am polystyrene sulfonate.
rms pruct croemerior was effserrve as o' Dowmber 1 should not be heated fa to do ao may alter the exchange ress on triese and erher products of W etf* rop 8r'o" propertans of the esta Laboratories asetaded eformarmor mer be setsmed oc a gow Supplied Jar of 1 pound .453 6 p current esars by direct mourry to ffie Profrassons' Service s8DC 00h10*%1 Deperrmeat 90 Port Aworiue how Yorst M 900f 8 (2 4 gw24' 0072626
/
e
% s 4-moumum vrmE V
Phy 28,1986 Russell M. Bimber 10471 Proaty Road Painesville, Ohio 44077 216/352-1680 Moticn:
(bilege or University Degree Date Western Reserve University M.S. CMmistry 1962 Anticch College B.S. Chemistry 1952 r
Professional Societies:
A mrican Chemical Society Division of Orcgnic Chemistry Division of In3astrial & Ergineering Chmistry Division of Enviromental Chemistry Board Cmmittee on Chemical Disasters (1%9-1976)
(We helped establish CN)
Steering a:>3 Program Cmmittees for the first Central Regional ACS Meeting (1966-l%81 1981 Award for Outstanding Contributions to Chmistry
(?betheastern Ohio Secticn, AG)
Amrican Association for the Advancement of Science k Teork B@erierce:
Cbspany Title _ Day
, SIE Biotech/Ricerca Research Associate 1930-Present
_ Diaxn3 S5mmrock Sr. Res ch Chemist 1 % 0-1980 Diavn3 Shamrock Research C5emist 1952-1959 Sta5ent Co-oo, 6 mas each; e National Cash Register Pacer Coating Technician 1951-1952 GliS$en Comany Medicinal Chemist 1950-1951 Merck & Company Microbiolcqy "'echnician 1949-1950
9 Curricultn Vitae Page 2 Cbncurrent Part-Time Professicnal Irwolvement:
Consultant to Lake County Disaster Service Agency since 1974, and to PRC Engineering, Inc. in 1982, helping plan responses to major leaks of radioactive material fran the Perry Nuclear Power Plant.
Consultant to the Lake County Health B3ard and Contractor with Penn Central to redace the hazard of caustic soda residues from a train Serailment in 1969.
Specialized Training:
(burse Iccation Date Organic Chmistry University of Florida 1984 0 Radiation & nitoring for Energency Response (Ohio DSA 16 hr course)
Geauga County 1984 Chemical Engineering Research Center 1981 for Chemists A and B Level Management Research Center 1981 Developnent Programs (1978) !
l Strategy of Experimentation Willoughby, Ohio 1979 I (Du Pont) )
l Ec:romics for Chenists Research Center 1978 1 1
High Performance Liquid Research Center 1978 Chraratography (Waters) i i
Atcruic Absorption Research Center 1977 Spectroscow Basic Liquid Research Center 1977 Chrcrnatography C-13 wt for Cleveland, Ohio 1976 Organic Chemists Econcrnics of Research Center 1976 Chemical Processes l
l i
Curricultn Vitae Page 3 PLblicaticns and Papers Presented at Meetirgs:
Bimber, Zercher, "The Incortance of Namenclature in Chmical Transprtation Emergencies", pressted by Bimber at the National AG Meeting, Chicacp, August 29, 1973.
Bimber, " Preparation of Arcnatic Acid Chlorides by Chlorination of AlccMls",
presented at the Gorcbn Conference on Oroanic Reactions and ProTsses,1967, and the Central Regional ACS Meetino, Akron,1968.
Bluestone, Bimber, Berkey, and May3el, " Chlorinated Derivatives of Butadiene Sulfone and Diels-Alder Reactions of 3,4-Dichlorothiophene-1,1-dioxide", J.
Org. Chem. g, 346 (1961). Presented 6/ Bimber at the National AG Meeting, Cleveland, April 14, 1%0.
O. S. Patents ty & Bisber, et al:
Patent No. 9tbject (b-Irwentors 4,570,021* Preparation of Ketones R. Cryberg (frcn 2 ketones) 4,528,400* Premration of Ketones R. Cryberg (fram ketone and acid) 4,286,091 Antihypertensive Pyridazinanes R. Buchman M. DePcnpei L. Pcwers I 3,887,657 PhospForarnitthioate Esters R. Battershell J. Bungs 3,766,195 Polychlorodicartor/pfridines P. Schuldt 3,652,637 All Vapr Phasa Synthesis of -
Chlorinated Arcnatic Nitriles 3,637,716 Polychlorocartorfp/ridines P. Schuldt 3,549,762 2,6-OicyanotrichlorooyT idine -
3,522,291 1,2,2,2-Tetrachloroethyl Esters -
3,325,503** Polychloro >bno and -
Dicyarco,Tidines 3,171,778 Biocidal Trithiane Derivatives F. Slezak
8 Curriculum Vitae Page 4 3,140,246 Arcmatic Acid Chlorides -
3,136,782 Halothianaphthene-1,1-dioxides H. Bluestone 3,130,199 Methanothianachthene Ccmpounds H. Bluestone I. Ibsen 3,110,739 1,3-Cvelohexad ienes -
3,101,377 Sulfone Derivatives of H. Bluestone Mercaptohaloethylenes 3,066,149 1,3,5 'Trithianes F. Slezak 3,028,421 PolyhalotetrahydrophthslaTic - I Acids 3,001,860 Imida2clines for -
Controlling Pests 0 3,000,894 Chloral Derivatives of Aminogairolines 2,994,637 Amirocyridine Fungicides -
2,981,739 oC- Haloaldehyde Addocts -
of Ethylenethioureas 2,975,186 Haloalkylolamiropyridines -
1,973,366 Derivatives of -
Ox(thi)azolidin(thilones 2,958,624 1,4-Diformyl-2,5-dimethyl Piperazine -
'Ihe correstording British Patents, Nos. 1,591,538-540, have been licensed to the victor Wolfe Ccnpany (England)
- Sold to Dow hs .nsibilities:
r 8 My duties inclu3e maintaining an awareness of scientific activities elsewhere and making specific proposals for research; also c>ndocting and/or directing follow-through on approved or assigned projects on time, within iudget, and reporting results, conclusions, and recxmendations.
8 Curricultn Vitae Page 5 Accm plishments-Decanil Was first at Diamord to tse arroxidation to mnvert m-xylene atoo-isophth l nitrile (Research Rep'>rt 1243) and first to chlorinate IPN to Damnil .
chlorination promsses for Damnil. Occasionally serve as anardinternal mnsult Designed, operated, and supervised cxnpaunds at up to three 1b/hr. operation of chlorination systems which produc meet EPA registration requirements. Prepared radiocarbon-labelled Daconil to help Deonstrated chlorination of micxidation process vapors to Daconil (U. S. Patent 3,652,637). , etc.
Conceived Daconil. and denonstrated an extraction process for removing rom P0l's f
_Oilorocyanopyridines Used the armexidation and chlorination technology developed for D prepare rovel chlorocyanopfridines (U. S. Patent aconil to 3,325,503).
make Tortbn herbicide. Patent Department that Dow tad begun In 1%7, told the one of our pate using mp3unds to Dow first licensed apply U. for a4,336,384.
S. Patent patent on their Tordon process,mtil 1981, according tothen bought ou l pgt l
i Eno u o P' Ph PRI ETAR Y MM^1AMN
_1hiofanan Insecticide eliminating the msnbrane and close spacing 3 497 430 trf
, , of electrodes.Imp Inproved yields of pinacolone frcn electrochemical pinacol by flash distillation of the electrolyte from sulfuric acid (Research Report 1605) .
I Co-discovered a novel route to pinacolone.
I with pivalic acid was scaled up to 60 kg pinacolone/hr.This catalytic reaction of acetone extended to Ireparation of other ketones, and patented. The process was
Curricultyn Vitae Page 5 l
t W1istments: l Deconil Was first at Diamorr3 to lee 5TOxidation to CDnvert m-xylene to isophthalo-nitrile (Research Report 1243) and first to chlorinate IPN to Daconil.
Occasionally serve as an internal consultant on our armercial amoxidation aw3 chlorination crocesses for Damnil. Designed, operated, and supervised operation of chlorination systems which produced 500 lb of Daconil and related i orgounds at up to three lb/hr. Prepared radiocarb3n-labelled Daconil to help I meet EPA registration regairenents.
l Deronstrated citlorination of avoxidation process vapors to Daconil, etc.
(U. S. Patent 3,652,637).
Conceived and demonstrated an extraction process for remcning PG's fran Damnil.
9 011orocyanopyridines Used the armoxidation and chlorination technology developed for Daconil to prepare novel chlorocyaropyridines (O. S. Patent 3,325,503). In 1%7, told the Patent Denartment that Dow red begun using one of our patented compaunds to make Tor 6n herbicide. Dow first licensed, tMn bought our patent, tut didn't apply for a patent on their Tortn process tntil 1981, according to D. S. Patent 4,336,384.
C 4 ML WlO t\[ O V 190 PRI ETA R } INRRa1eraA ,
I
%iofanon Insecticide l
Inproved the electrochemical pinaml process of U. S. Patent 3,497,430 by eliminating the mirnbrane and close spacing of electrodes. )
Inproved yields of pinacolone fran electroc5emical pinacol t7f flash distillation of the electrolyte fran sulfuric acid (Research Rep 3rt 1605) . 1
{
Co-disc 3vered a revel route to pinamlone. %is catalytic reaction of acetone with pivalic acid was scaled up to 60 kg pinacolone/hr. The process was exterv3ed to preparation of other ketones, and patented.
. . i t
S '
Curricultrn vitae Page 6 l
l Demonstrated the feasibility of ligaid phase marochlorination of pirarlone; it repla d the va;or phase Iro ss then in use.
Miscellaneous Aided startup of Semi-Wrks prodoction of Nopcocide 170 Slimicide (DS-649) and served as an internal consultant daring production, i Helped develop a process for chlorinating ethylene dichloride to tetrachloro-ethanes (Research Report 1521) . Helped produce 20,000 lb of this trichlor-ethylene precursor at Semi-Wrks.
Demonstrated substitution of ethane for the note costly ethylene in oxyhydro- I chlorination to chlorinated ethanes (Research Re; ort 1549) .
Discovered a Irocess for preparing arcrnatic acid chlorides i:otentially useful for low HG Dacthal (Research Report 1082) . It was never cxxamercialized for this purpose, tut it was used in preparing our first ton of Deconil.
Inproved the final steo of the Rcwtate herbicide process by reacting Ihenyl isocyanate with dimethylcyrrolidine in water instead of hectane.
Imroved the diimide redxtions used to prepare candidate pesticides sxh as DS-39264 by incremental aMition of a more soluble catalyst [Cu(%c) instead of CuSO,1, reducing hydrazine usage by a factor of ten. %e reacti were also made safer by substituting air for oxygen.
Prepred over 400 novel DS com;otrids which were screened for possible utility.
Assisted preparation of test gantities (0.1-20 kg) of nanerous candidate products.
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Sigrature 8