ML20129B127

Transcript of 850615 Joint Interview of L Simon & SM Quennoz in Oak Harbor,Oh Re 850609 Event.Pp 1-78

ML20129B127
Person / Time
Site:	Davis Besse
Issue date:	06/15/1985
From:	Quennoz S, Simon L TOLEDO EDISON CO.
To:
Shared Package
ML20129B131	List: ML20129B127 ML20129B141
References
NUDOCS 8507290083
Download: ML20129B127 (85)

Text

{{#Wiki_filter:_ 60 - 3 '/ (o 1 1 BEFORE THE FACT FINDING TASK FORCE (--k- / 2 OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COe1 MISSION 3 4 Re: 5 Davis-Basse event 6 of June 9, 1985 7 3 9 JOINT INTERVIEW OF 10 LOUIS SIMON AND STEPHEN M. QUENNOZ 11 12 Joint Interview of LOUIS SIMON and ,r-( ; 13 STSPHEN M. QUENNOZ by the Nuclear Regulatory 14 Commission Fact Finding Task Force, taken before 15 me, Nicholas A. Marrone, a Registerad Professional 16 Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of 17 Ohio, at the Site Emergeny Oparations Center, 18 Davis-Besse Nuclear Plant, Oak Harbor, Ohio,'on 19 Saturday, June 15, 1935, commancing at 9:15 o' clock 20 a.m. 21 22 23 8507290083 850615 PDR ADOCK 05000346 T PDR 24 gm ( ~j RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

2 1 PRESENT: 2 3 MEMBERS OF THE TEAM: 4 Nayne Lanning Larry Bell 5 J. T. Beard Ernie Rossi 6 s 7 ALSO PRESENT: a Mary o'Reilly (TED/ Staff Attorn4y) 9 Stephen Burns (NRC/OELD) 10 11 12 U,, 13 14 15 j 16 17 18 19 20 21 l 22 23 24 i t_3. RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I l !~

3 1 Saturday Morning Session '~ 2 Juno 15, 1985 3 9:15 o' clock 3.m. 4 5 MR. ROSSI: We are cn the record th2n. 6 What we arc going to be doing is talking 7 with Louis Simon and Steve Quennoz, and we will S start by l a t.t in g aach of them tell us wnat thair 9 position is with Toledo Edison. 10 Louis, why don't you begin first. 11 MR. BEARD: Do wa want to identify, Mary 12 is in the room upon somebody'c request? ( }) 13 MR. BURNS: Why don't tney each identity 14 themselves rirst.. 15 MR. SIMON: ' Louis Simon. I'm opcrations 16 suparvisor. 17 MR. QUENNOZ: Steve Quennoz, plant 18 manager. 19 MR. BURNS: Mr. Simon, nave you asked 20 someona to attend this interview with you tnis 21 morning? 22 MR. SIMON: Not directly, no. I mentioned 23 to Stevo if he was here I might want him to sat in. 24' MR. BURNS: Is Miss O'Reilly.hara at your ,e3 L) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION t

4 1 request? ~Y 2 MR. SIMON: Yes-3 MR. BURNS: Mr. Quennoz, is Miss O'Reilly 4 here at your request? 5 MR. QUENNOZ: Yes. 6 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't we bsgin by 7 wnich of you was the first one to get to tne oito? 8 MR. SIMON: I was. 9 MR. ROSSI: .iny don't you tell us then 10 first when you first neard about tno event and than 11 tell us what you did after you heard about it, what 12 you were told about it whan you first found out? t() 13 MR. SIMON: I was called by Bill O'Connor 14 at I think it was about quarter till two in the 15 morning. It might nave been five or ten of, I'm 16 not sure. And I had just gotten into bed. And so 17 I got dressad and drove in. 18 When Bill talked to me, he said: We have 19 had a trip, they'have had a failure of aux 20 f e e dwa te r. They are on PORV HPI cooling. Get in 21 right away. And he nung up. 22 MR. BEARD: He said they were on PORV 23 cooling? 24 MR. SIMON: Yas. <s I \\ V RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I l

5 1 So I drove in. Wnen I got near the plant, rN ( '~' 2 around the cornar, fairly near the plant, I could 3 ses some pretty good steam plumes coming out of the 4 roof, and when I got in the parxing lot,-I was sure 5 they nad steam generator heat ramoval and that aux 6 feedpumps were running. Exhaust was coming out the 7 normal port outside the building. 8 And wnen I arrived in the gate, the 9 guards informed me that I was to call the shift 10 supervisor immediately. So in tne gatehouse, the 11 PPF, I paged Teddy Lehman. 12 MR. BELL: About wnat time are we talking r~') 13 now, 2:00 or t ss 14 MR. SIMON: Quarter after maybe. I'm not 15 sure of the exact time. I badged in, but I didn't 16 checx when it was. 17 MR. BELL: Tha t's fine. Please continue. 18 MR. SIMON: I talked to Teddy Lehman. 19 MR. ROSSI: This is by phone now? 20 MR. SIMON: On the Gaitronix from the PPF. 21 He said that he wanted to declare an 22 unusual event. And I said, Yeah, that sounds fine 23 to me.- I'm coming right up. Anf I believe that's 4 all the conversation was, 2 fy i / RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION s

6 1 I then proceeded into the plant. As I 2 was wTlking, just batore I got into the plant, I 3 noticed the 235 pound header reliet valve litt, and 4 it was a little unusual; it looked like a cannon shot. 5 I could see there was a lot of water in the steam. 6 MR. ROSSI: Tha t's a reliet valve -- 7 MR. SIMON: From an auxiliary steam 8 header. And there was a lot of wa te r came with tha 9 initial lift. 10 When I walked into the plant on the 585 11 olevation, there was water running down the wall 12 near tne stationary receivers, and I coald haar () 13 noise but I figured that was water coming out of 14 the discharge reliet vents on tne 235 header. 15 MR. BEARD: You said you antered the 16 plant on the 585 level? 17 MR. SIMON: Yes, ground level. la-MR. BEARD: Just generally what equipment 19 is in that area, so you can get me orientod? 20 MR. SIMON: Turbine basement, but not the 21 lower elevations of the basement. It's ground 22 levol. The main steamlines are above, the main 23 compressors are.thero, stairwell leading up to the 24 control room. 3 N) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

7 j 1 1 I went up toward the control room. And em i \\) 2 I'm trying to think. I met an o p e r<1 t o r. I think 3 it was Bob Morrison, but I'm not sura. And I asked to isol3to the dasuperheat water on the 4 him if 5 235 pound r e d u c i r.g station and bypass. And I 6 didn't stop, I just Kapt going and went on into the 7 control room. 8 Wnen I arrived in the control room, Teady 9 Lanman was tnere. The STA, Ted Lang was there. 10 Brian Young was at the secondary panel. 11 MR. ROSSI: What was the STA's name again? 12 MR. SIMON: Ped Lang. () 13 MR. BEARD: L-a-n-g? 14 MR. QUENNOZ: Correct. 15 MR. ROSSI: Sorry for the interruption. 16 Go ahead. 17 MR. SIMON: Rick Walleman was at the 18 primary panel. 19 I want to the secondary panel area and 20 noted the steam generator levels. I can't swear to 21 where they wers. Tney were were about 50 inches in 22 both generators. 23 Brian Young was standing naar the aux t' 24 teedpump controls. I walked up to him and asked es ks) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

8 -1 and looked, did he have both aux teedpumps. Both -s I 2 aux feedpumps wore running. ~ 3 Brian informed me that he had no control 4 of No. 1 aux fee-pump. ti e said the equipment 5 operators are in the room controlling it on tne 6 trip tnrottle valve. The No. 2 pump appeared to be 7 at full speed. No. 1 pump was somewnat lower. I'm 8 not sure where it was exactly. 9 Brian also I believe at that time told me 10 that ne was feeding-No. 1 staam generator with the 11 startup teedpump. I did look down and saw a demand 12 on the startup fead valve for No. 1 steam generator. p) 13 I glanced at the startup feedpump. Pressures ( 14 appeared normal, somawnere around 900 or 1000 15 pounds. I'm not sure. 16 MR. BEARD: So at tnis time then 17 basically when you arrived, all the aux feedpumps 18 were running and startup was still running? 19 MR. SIMON: Yes. 20 I walked over to Rick Walleman and l 21 glanced at the RSC narrow range pressure chart and 22 noted -t nad gone as high as twenty-tour hundred i 23 pounds and as low as near the bottom of the scale, 24 1750, in tnat ballpark. es!vI RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

9 1 I asnod I thinx it was at that time a \\# 2 general qu?stion to the room: what was the highest 3 anyone saw our reactor coolant system temparature. 4 And arian Young I believe said 590. I believe Tcd 5 Lehman said 590. 6 MR. LANNING: Excuse me. Is this a 7 parameter tnat is recorded on a trend recorder? d MR. SIMON: Yes, it is. I noted in that I was looking at a lot of indications. 9 time frame 10 I can't remember exact orders et things. I also 11 asned what was tne lowast anyone had seen steam 12 generator levels, and I got an answer, I believe, () 13 of about ten inches. 14 MR. ROSSI: About ten inches? 15 MR. SIMON: About ton inches. I also 16 asked what was tne lowest steam pressure we got to 17 on either generator. And someone told me 960. 18 MR. BEARD: How do those numbers compara 19 with trigger points for emergency procedures? . 20 MR. SIMON: I guess I wasn't even 21 thinxing in those terms at tne time. 22 MR. BEARD: Fine. 23 MR. SIMON: I was thinking, I wanted to 24 _Know if they indeed had dried out the ganarators, 7s i i w) RUNFOLA-& ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

10 1 if tney had to repressurize a dry generator, and of ?'M i f 2 course now hot the reactor coolant system had 3 gotten. The trigger points I nave looked at racently 4 so I Know what they are, but I don't know if I was 5 oven tninking of that at the time. 6 MR. BEARD: That's fine. 7 MR. S II! O N : I then wa1xed around the bacK 8 of the panel and checked the Quench Tank pressure, 9 and it was at 50 pounds. Normal is 25. 10 MR. BEARD: Any particular reason for 11 checking the Quanch Tank? 12 MR. SIMON: Well, I nad been informed on () 13 the pnona they were on PORV HPI cooling. And when came in the parxing lot, 14 I came in and saw steam 15 I.Knas they nad st aam' ge nera tor cooling, and I was 16 trying to determine how bad things had gotten 17 befora I arrived. 18 And if the PORV had bean used axcessively 19 or very much at all, I would expect the Quench Tank 20 rupturo disk to have blown and to not have prescura 21 'i n the Quench Tanx. Unan I saw pressure'in the 22 Quench Tanx, I was pretty much convinced they 23 hadn't stayed on tne PORY for any length of-time. ~ 24 I balievo I also moted.the Quench Tank c) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATSS (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

11 1 cire pump was in lock out. p., \\~l 2 MR. BEARD: Thanx you. 3 MR. ROSSI: How about Quenen Tank level? 4 Is there a Quenen Tank level measurament? i 5 MR. SIMON: Yes, thero is. I glanced at 6 that also. I think it was around nine and a half, 7 almost ton foot. I think ton toot is full scale. 8 It wasn't pegged out, but it was a little hignor 9 than normal. But normal is eight or nino foot, so it was high, but it wasn't awful high or 10 it's 11 anytning. 12 I came back around the panal and I think (') 13 at tha t time asked Rick Walleman if ho had nald tne 14 PORV open. There is a lock position for going to 15 PORV cooling whare you would lock-it in tha open 16 position. He said no. 17 I can't even remamber exactly. I do 13 believe I lookad at the valves and it was closed. 19 Then I looked at the block and I think it was open, 20 but I can't I'm not positive. 21 Pressure at that tima,,I'm not even 22 positive where it was, but I thinx it was eighteen 23 hundred or two thousand pounds, something like that. 24 I wasn't too concarned witn it from what I saw. It RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED. TRANSCRIPTION t

12 1 wasn't jumping around and it was in somawhat of a (,-m' -) 2 normal range. 3 I looked at the TSat mator, and I believe 4 it was over a hundred degroes, but I'm not positive. 5 I wasn't concern 2d with whatever valuo I saw on it. 6 I guess I felt at that time th2t they had 7 not gono to PORV cooling and guessed that the PORV 8 probably had lifted because the Quench Tanx 9 pressure is normally xapt at 25 and it was at 50. 10 I can't remember exactly what I did next. 11 I did shortly thereafter get into a discussion with 12 Teddy Lehman on unusual event. I beliave he () 13 approached me and said he wanted to write down a 14 message to put on the tapo measure for declaring an 15 unusual event.- 16 MR. BEARD: Excuse me,' Louis. Maybe this 17 is a good place to do it. Would.it be a fair 18 summary to say when you arrived in the control room 19. tnat your initial activities was one of scanning 20 key paramaters and indicators to sort of assess the 21 ovarall situation of the plant, where tney might 22 hava been and where they were now? -23 MR. SIMON: .res. And I rather quicKly 24 concluded they wero okay now, and I think I was in -~ k_) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 l COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION 1

13 i 1 my mind trying to determino also how bad things had kJ 2 gotten. 3 MR. ROSSI: Let me ass anotner question 4 related to the plant status. Anat was the status, 5 if you looxed at it,'of the high pressure injection -6 at that point in time? 7 MR. SIMON: I don't oslieve' I looxed at 8 it. The pressure as I recall was high enough that 9 it would not be pumping into tne system, and I 10 don't snow it the pumps were running or not. 11 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Go ahead on your 12 discussion of the emergency classification. (') 13 MR. LANNING: .I have a question along 14 these lines. Did you consult any of the trend 15 recorder charts during this appraisal of what sind t 16 of transient _tno plant had experienced? ) 17 MR. SIMON: No, I did not. 18 MR. BEARD: Tre trend recorders ~you are 19 referring to are difierent from strip charts? 20 MR. LANNING: Tney are the same. 21 MR. SIMON: I may hava looked at one or 22 two of enem, but I don't recall it. 23 MR. BSARD: I think you mentioned, Louis, 24 that you did loox.at;the recorder trace for reactor w) ? RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

14 1 coolant system pressure, and you saw tne highest I,,) 's 2 valua had been this and tha lowest value you saw 3 was that. So apparently tnero was some looking at 4 strip charts. 5 MR. SIMON: Yes. Yeah, there was. 6 Teddy Lehman was sitting at the desk and 4 7 writing and, as I said, he wanted to write a 8 message for the tape machine for declaring an 9 unusual avent. And he said something about it may have been before that even I 10 somewhers 11 .was told that Bill O'Connor was on his way in and 12 Steve Quennoz was coming ir. (m) 13 The STA was also standing by tne desk, 14 and the emergency plan was out. And I Know I 15 thumbed through some of the EALs for derermining 16 the classification; I didn't spend much time at 17 that, maybe fifteen seconds I guess, and Teddy 13 Lenman said we are not into anything in thoro right 19 now. 20 I did undar I believe what was loss of 21 plant functions or a tab similarly named to that e 22 see the s ta temen t of complete loss of main and aux 23 feedwater in site emergency. I mentioned that to 24 noth 'r e d Lang, the STA, and Ted Lehman, that looxs k_.) RUNFOLA &' ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

15 1 liKe we were in a sita emergency. And Ted said, .,r) 'J 2 Yeah, out we got it bacK and now we are not. 3 And again he said, There is nothing in 4 there that we are in rignt now, but tnat he wanted 5 to declare an unusual event. 6 And I said, Yes, I definitely want to get 7 some people in nere. I want to get some tech 8 section people to delog the plant computer, and I 9 guess wo agreed at tha t time that we should go 10 ahead and get the unusual event declared. 11 MR. BURNS: That was Ted Lenman or Ted 12 Lang?. -f) 13 MR. SIMON: Both. v 14 MR. BURNS: Both, okay. 15 Ma. SIMON: I don't remember exactly what 16 input Ted Lang had at the time. 17 MR. BEARD: Louis, I get the feeling that 18 when you nad gone through the proc 3ss of trying to 19 determine what classification to put on, I get the 20 f2eling of two things. One was tne thing you were 21 looxing at was more where the plant was at the -22 moment, nor where it.had been? 23 MR. SIMON: Yes. 24 MR. BEARD: And the second thing was you (,I RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

16 1 seemed to be focusing more on using that as a ~ \\/ 2 vehicle to get you support people, such as people 3 to run through tha vent recorders and things of 4 this na ture, to assist you in where you would go 5 frcm hara. 6 MR. SIMON: Yes. .I also reslized that 7 the amergency plan is, you Know, a requirement in 8. itself, and the notifications are an important part 9 or that plan. 10 MR. BEARD: I understand. I unde rs ta nd. 11 I guess tha t's where I was getting to is that the 12 primary thing was not the notification as much as () 13 support for the plant as I see w ha t you are saying. 14 MR. SIMON: Yes. 15 MR. BEARD: ~ Okay. 16 MR. SIMON: And even if we saw nothing in 17 the plan for the conditions the plant was in at the 18 moment you know, I definitely at least wanted to '9 have an unusual event fdr notification and get some 20 support in. 21 MR. BEARD: Was there any consid. ration 22 given in determining this to getting something 23 moving in anticipation of the possibility'that a 24 situation could degrade again or further or 7m., V RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

17 1 somatning? iO ~J 2 MR. SIMON: I am sure that was in the 3 back of my mind. I didn't say anything or it at 4 the tima. 5 MR. BURNS: If you had declared it at a 6 nignor level than an unusual event, what more would 7 you nave nad to do? 8 MR. SIMON: Basically notning mors, 9 really, for the shift sup or I, tne notiticstion. well, I guess there wouldn' t 10 The admin assistant 11 bo anything more. I guesp the message would oe 12 sligntly different and it would be more support. ( ) 13 MR. BEARD: Would enere be another option % j' 14 in preparing the message of saying we have been in 15 a site emergency situation, we are not tnera now, 16 but presently we are nere? Would that thought have 17 crassed anybody's minds tha t you are aware? 18 MR. SIMON: I didn't believe we wanted to 19 do that. I thougnt that would just contuso people 20 and say when you declare it, you are in tais or in 21 that, and that's a key thing in the plan. And 22 there is a lot with site being a couple levels 23 higher than an unusual event. Basically r.n unusual 24 event is oftan noted as notification only, although L ) RUNFOLA S. ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

,. ~. ) 18 1 on'a.tapa you can ask for a specific help trom 2 sections. 1 m E 3 MR. BEARD: I see. 4-MR. SIMON:' Or anything you want. You 5 .can nave the TSC and the ECC. man if you so desire, 6 even thoug h -i t's an unusual. But if you go higher

7 than an unusual, you will also man all-of the 8

Econters Dincluding the off site support. MR. BEARD: So are you telling me ifzyou

9 10 had r, a d e ~ a massage that said we have been in'a site 11 emergency classitication bu't' nollonger there, that 12'

this - would through.some proceduros. requirement for

]{} 13 1 wha te v e r invoke the'necessary. manning of;.tne - teen '14 support center and various functions-like this 15 which may-not be 'appropria te a t this time? i 4 16 MR. SIMON: I thinK.t ha t ' s " t r u e. I thinK 1 h 17 a message to that effect sayingwe,are in an t i .18 unusual event but we usod'to be inr a' site would ~ ~ 19 just muddy up the waters, and rasponse-people would 20-say, Wel1, what in theLholliarefwe supposed-'to do?- 21- _Are we supposed to_ man allnthese;c' enters or not? 22 ' MR. ' BE ARD : - :Right. - 23 .MR.. SIMON:' iAnd in' the.ba ck' Lo t my mind, I-1, i. ~ Bill T O '. Co nno r, a nd S te v'a 2 Oue nn oz 24 also.knewLthat RUN POL A' : & !AS'SOCI AT Ess '( 614 ) 44 5-84 7 71 ' COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION-i ~ II U g. ,e

19 1 would oa in shortly, and that I would dump it on f~h kJ 2 Onem and ask for any claritication. We could 3 always upgrade if we felt that was nocessary. 4 MR. BURNS: So your de ci sion to call it 5 ~an unusual event -- to maxe suro I understand it eas based on your conclusion at Lnc 6 correctly 7 time the transient was essentially over or tnat the 8 plant had s ta bili ze d and you wera no longer in the 9 situation in whien you would otherwise have callad 10-a site emergency? 11 MR. GIMON: Yos. And I.also was not 12 convinced I hadn't been thera,.and I nad asked a ( )- 13 few key questions. It was apparent that, yes, 14i indeed tney had lost feedwater and tney must have 15 regained it in a fairly short time I thougnt, and 16 that was from the parameters that they were t0lling 17 me. So it was an entry into the sita conditions 18 for a brief time. I wasn't sura how.long that time 19 period was, and it was obvious they hadn't damaged 20 any fuel, they-nadn't damaged the reactor coolant '21 system. And a site'to me is a fairly *high 22 declaration that you nave eituor damagad something 23 or it is imminant that you will, and I felt we 24 probably hadn't reacnod those conditions. e~s ( } v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION 4

20 1 To me the steam generators may have lost ks' 2 teed, but from what I heard, the prussure nadn't 3 decayed off to wnere, you Know, they were dry or 4 anytning or-I would consider them dry. So to me it 5 wasn't even clear if the site would have been tno 6 proper classification. 7 I know that, you Know, the EALS have 8 short words, and that's good. But I tigured we 9 could iron that out when Steve and Bill came in and 10 tnat we wanted to at least, because it was a 11 serious event, a failure or safety systems, we.did 12 want to get some people in to loon the plant over. [w)/ 13 And of course there is a potential for losing it 14 again, although things looked fairly good from 15 where wa were with the startup feedpump and one aux 16 pump was running. Althougn it was crippled, they 17 said they had local control of it. And the other 18 one was operating. The c on ta inme n t nadn't been 19 sevarely contamina ted from PORV operation. 20 The plant I wouldn't, you know -- was 21 . fairly stable. I don't know if I answered your 22 question. I think I got ott on a tangent. 23 MR. BURNS: I think you did. 24 MR. ROSSI: Yean. ,3 ) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

21 1 MR. BEARD: I had one along the s a tt e lino. (~. \\ l' 2 Whan you are considering the options ot 3 classifications, it seems to me you are saying you 4 were forward looking instaad ot looxing back is a 5 big message I'm getting. 6 And by declaring an unusual event, one at 7 the Key things I heard you say was it could always 8 be upgraded if other management paople or later in 9 time you decidad that it naodsd a more nigher 10 classification. 11 MR. SIMON: Yes 12 MR. BEARD: The question I'm ge t ti ng to f')N 13 though is with regard to the cla ssifica tion, each e 14 cla ssifica tion involves notification of somo sort. 15 was there any thought given that you are aware of, 16 eitner yourself or others, to if we oeclare a 17 higner classification, that either this would be undul y 18 alarmist to some of the people that would ba 19 notified or tnat particularly the notifications of 20 the NRC could have some adverso rapercussions on 21 .your plant situation or reputa tion or anything of 22 that nature? 23 MR. SIMON: No, I don't think tha t was in 24 my. mind. I wanted to follow what was in the im/ RUNFOLA'& ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

22 1 procedure. You know, I haven't memorized all the ,m ks 2 E A L s,- there is a lot of tham, and if you want to 3 make the classification appropriate for the 4 conditions you are in. And whetner tnat involvas 5 notification of.all off site supports and manning 6 of stations or not is to me immaterial. 7 MR. BEARD: Okay. 8 MR. ROSSI: Waro there any discussions 9 while you were in the control room over the BNS or 10 red pnone line tnat you are aware of? 11 MR. SIMON: Yes. Ted Lang, when I was 12 discussing the classification with Ted Lehman, Ted () 13 Lang did say some words like I had already told the 14 NRC we had declared an unusual event. I don't Know 15 exactly wnat time. I think subsequent to that I 16 hava seen wnare it was 02:12 or something, but I'm 17 not positive of that time. But he had on tne red 18 phone told the NRC we had declared an unusual event. 19 MR. ROSSI: And tnat was -- do you know 20 whether that was tne first call to the NRC and that 21 included 22 MR. SIMON: I assumed that was. 23 MR. ROSSI: Okay. I don't know whether 24 do you have any additional knowledge about calls m 3 t RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-a477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

23 1 over the red phone now after the event from 's 2 discussions you have had or deoriefings or 3 MR. SIMON: No, no other. 4 MR. ROSSI: OKay. 5 MR. BELL: During this pariod of time, 6 plant conditions are such that you do not meet any 7 of tha emergency action levels in your procedure? 3 MR. SIMON: That is wnat I was told by 9 Ted Lenman. I did take a look througn some of the 10 EALs myselt and flipped tnrough them. Like I say, 11 I did find the one that said loss of all foodwater 12 in sita emergoney. But I did not see any that ( }) 13 would describe any event from the exact conditions 14 we were in. 15 MR. BELL: So your d3claration of an 16 unusual event is made.or is going to be made to get 17 you some additional management help at the plant 18 site? 19 MR. SIMON: Yes. 20 MR. BELL: And does tnat ca tch us back up 21 to the point where wo were beforo we got on this 22 aiscussion? 23 MR. BEARD: I think so. I have one last 24 question and I will be ready'to go on. I think 3 O RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION I

.._____..m.. 1 24 z l' that's.what you are-lookingtat. [, 2 To understand'the perspective that you l - 3 are in, Louis, at this point in time,'-in' arriving j 4 . at the plant, having surveyed the control room generalffeel tor what the 5 indicators'and ge'tting a i 6 ovorall situation is, wou'ld it be correct to say I: 7 tn'st -- or lot' me do i t another way. 8 Would you discuss witn us to:what extent f ' 9-time.was a factor.in the things you were doing and ) 10 the decisions you.were making, s uc h ~.a s event 11 classification in the' context of you'had thi s.. tning t - 12 to work on, thenago on to anotner one, and other () 13 things. . I'm sure there.are a number ~of. people 1 j 14 coming: to you with questions. 15 MR. SIMON: Yes. 'Ted Lehman.nad quickly-l 16 requested me to calleimmediately from/hne-guardi l 17 house to(givel nim'some" support on this: classification, and-I-knew t ha t 't ha t -. w a s foremost-18 19' in his mind. . A n d._ w h e n I~tirst came-in.tne control ~ ~ 20 room, I j ust went to-:looking'at plantkparameters r 21 -and.didn't provideoany; support or help toihim 22 liamediately for tne first couple-or.few minutos. [ 23 And I Know tnat he was? concerned-and wanted. ~

o

- :24 tot get'his notifications made totm xe sure no was RUNFOLAL& ASSOCIATES.(614)445'-8477-L COMPUTERIZSD TRANSCRIPTIONS 4 r t M { b -{ Twe qv-' -g m=y*i{ y y y aa -.u.--as -g-WA-..e g y-9 y 4*A w ,c.-9--u-g-i m lpN g y, 4 e bg 4sy -4 g.' m si ye9 .-q'

25 1 following procedures. And when I noticed in the ,in 2 .EALa and there was possibly some question of a site, 3 even though I felt for the plant conditions there 4 was nothing and we should at least declare an 5 unusual event, I knew that was timaly, that wa needed 6 to go.anead and get it. '7 1 also, like I say, in the bacx of my 8 mind thougnt I would run this by Steve and Bill 9 when they got in, whetner we indeed should have s 10 daclared a site and that, if wa indeed should have 11 been in a site, you xnow, tnen by taking a long 12 time to declare an unusual event was, you Know, not () 13 appropriate. And also Ted Lang had said tnat he 14 had told tna NRC already that we nad declared an 15 unusual event. So I wanted to get the. process 16 going quickly to get the notitications made. 17 MR. BEARD: dere there other pressures on 18 you in the sense there were other things besides 19 the classification notifications to do, other 20 things in tna plant and in tnat sense tnat you were 21 under any -- did you fool you were under any time 22 conste:ints to address that issue so you could then 23 go on to other issues in thu plant? 24 MR. SIMON: Not a great d3al. I was es i \\ ~) RUNFOLA 4 ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

rf 26 1 concerned with the s ta tus of the aux feodpumps. I (3 5 2 was concerned with making sure we had, you know, 3 control of the situation. 4 It appeared they did. They did have 5 operators in the rooms. They had mentioned in this 6 time frame tnat they had overspeed trips of both 7 aux feedpumps. Tha t's a very unusual condition 8 which I have never seen. Under those conditions, 9 I'm not sure if that could renappan or the 10 possibility at losing it again. 11 You know, timo was on our side with the 12 decay heat. I did want to get back to the plant, () 13 but obviously getting the unusual event, it was 14 important getting that daclared and go ahead. 15 MR. BEARD: That's all I have in this 16 area. 17 MR. LANNING: Was it your understanding 18 tnat une type of the event that you declare is 19 based on the prevailing conditions at the time you 20 consult the EALs? 21 MR. SIMON: I guess in ganeral I would 22 say tnat's true. I would think if you nad missed 23 one, if you had subsequently going through the.EALs 24 discovered one tha t you-were definitely in tha t's gm L] RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION c-_

r-27 1 in black and whita, that you may want to daclare ,r x i ) 2 Onat. 3 I guess it wasn't completely cicar in my 4 . mind. Most of tnem don't tix thamselves, it they 5 are a large LOCA or a bad steam generator tube leak 6 or somatning like that. You would most of the time 7 stay in tnat condition and not got out of it again 8 in rapid manner. I guess I hadn't really thought 9 about it much before. 10 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't you continue 11 tnen with wnat nappened nuxt. 12 MR. ROSSI: I thinx we were to the point mV) 13 wnero you nad some discussions over tno emergency ( 14 action levels,.and that's whera you ware. So if 15 you want to continue on from tnere. 16 MR. SIMON: Ted Lehman bagan writing down 17 a message on the unusual uvent declaration, and I la looxed over his shoulder, and I can't even remember 4 19 exactly what the words on it wera. I s ta r te d 20 chiming in that I wanted toch esccion support, and 21 I do not Know if he wrote that down on tne message, 22 but shortly the messace want to the admin assistant 23 to get stuck in the machina and to proceed with tne 24 radio paging of the Key personnel. 73 () RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

28 1 And I think at that time I went bacK to \\J 2 talking to the ROs and looking at point paramaters, 3 the bast I can remamber. 4 MR. ROSSI: I wonder if this is a good had anyone else arrived yet? 5 point to 6 MR. SIMON: No, but I belicve it was very 7 shortly atter thtt tnat Bill O'Connor arrived. I 8 would guess that ne was maybe ten minutes behind me, 9 but I'm not sure of the time frame. 10 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Maybe you ougnt to 11 continue on your discussion of anything.else that ~ 12 you did or happened up until Mr. Quennoz arrived. (]) 13 And you can discuss that in general terms it it 14 wasn't anything specitic of significance, but 15 tha t's fine. 16 MR. SIMON: I cannot rememoer exactly. I 17 Knew that in scanning the panels, I noticed tne la exciter field breaker was still closed, and tno 19 generator breaxers were open. I looked at 20 electrical distribution; didn't see anything elsa 21 abnormal. I knew they had lost vacuum. 22 I looked at the exhaust nood temperatures. 23 There was a fairly significant ditterence between 24 the two exhaust hoods on the condenser.on the low es (s) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATUS (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

29 1 pressure turbines. Number A was up to about two 's# 2 nundred degrees. I was a little concerned witn 3 that. 4 MR. ROSSI: That's the exhaust? 5 MR. SIMON: Of the low pressure turbines 6 in the condensers. 7 I also Kind of concluded from my 8 = indica tions that they had not completed that 9 portion of the post-trip procedure, and some time 10 in that time frame I got a copy out and went 11 through and started performing tnose actions myself. 12-lt gave me a chance to look at things in (' ) 13 a little more d e tail, and I was in the bacx or my 14 mind a little concerned with the not exhaust hood 15 temperature and I thought possibly going through 16 that procedure, isolating some valves and things, 17 might help tna t condition. 13 So I do remember that I went through and 19 performed several of those actions m selt in the 20 secondary drains mostly and MSRs and somo of tne 21 steps in the procedure. 22 I also did discuss the plant situation 23 with Bill O'Connor when ha arrivad. I don't 24 remember the details of tha t conversa tion.- I es (v) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED. TRANSCRIPTION

30 1 belicve I discussed PORY range HPI cooling. O' ks 2' Soma time in that tima tramo, Steve 3 Feasel arrived in the control room. He nadn' t been 4 there before whan I arrived, and I can't remember 5 exactly my conversations with nim. 6 MR. BURNS: Where had he come trom? Do 7 you know where he had come from? a MR. SIMON: No, I do not. I heard in 9 this time framo that ne had gone to get the startup 10 Isadpump on and he had been in the room with the 11 equipment operators on the aux feedpump turbines. 12 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Has Steve Quennoz () 13 arrived yet? 14 MR. SIMON: I do not remember whan Stevo 15 arrivod. 16 MR. BBARD: Steve did arrive. 17 MR. SIMON: Yes. 18 M R'. ROSSI: But you don't remember 19 anytning else of significance until he arrived then 20 maybe there is 21 MR. LANNING: Who was it that told you on 22 the telaphone tha t you were on PORV cooling? 23 MR. SIMON: Bill O'Connor. 24 MR. BELL: When Bill arrivod, did you try f,) (v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION m_..

l 31 1 t: get a clarification on what he had told you on ,m i i N' 2 the phone? 3 MR. SIMON: Yes. I did discuss PORV 4 cooling with him. He had told me that he had been 5 informed they had lost all feedwater and that they I think thay said iney wore o were attampting 7. attempting to get it back. 8 He said that ne had given them one minute 9 on tna telephone to either have feedwater back or 10 go to PORV cooling. I also discussed that somewhat 11 with Teddy Lehman, and he said right after I hung 12 up with Bill, they started to get some faedwatar () 13 bacx. And s u b s e qu e tt t they got aux feedwater back, 14 startup and at least one aux teedpump. 15 MR. BELL: Dr. Rossi, may I ask this 16 gentloman tnree or four questions betore we 17 conclude our interview with him? 18 MR. ROSSI: Sure. I think JT has some 19 too. 20 MR. BEARD: I have only one. 21 MR. BELL: Louis, how long havo you bsan 22 worxing at Davis-Besse? 23 MR. SIMON: 1973 or '2. I ca n ' t ramambor 24 exactly. We wars in tne classroom stuft for ,SL) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATCS'(614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRAt4SCRIPTION

32 1 initial code licensing trsining prior to coming to (') '/ 2 the site. I also wont to observation training.at 3 Palisades and several weexs or months at the B & W 4 simulator. 5 MR. BELL: In short you arc one of the 6 original coda license operators? 7 MR. BEARD: First crew? 8 MR. SIMON: I was the first shift 9 sup3rvisar for the initial startup. 10 MR. BELL: My second question has to do 11 with some technical information we will need to 12 perform our rcview of the hard data. Wnen you '() 13 first got to the plant, tners was no vacuum in the 14 condenser? 15 MR. SIMON: Tha t's correct. 16 MR. BELL: The reactor was trippad? 17 NR. SIMON: Yes. 18 MR. BELL: And the steam generators were 19 at normal pressure for that condition. 20 MR. SIMON: Yes. 21 MR. BELL: Which w o u l-d be somewhere in 22 the neighbornood of ton hundred and ten pounds? 23 MR. SIMON: Yes. I'm not sure the exact 24 pressure they nad in them, but I believe they were (_3 7 ) RUNFOLA &' ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

j 33 i 1 around a thousand pounds. ,'J 2 MR. BELL: And that pressure would be -- 3 would be controlled witn tha atmospheric vents? 4 MR. SIMON: Yes. 5 MR. BELL: And that atmospheric vant 6 control signal ccmas from tna integrated control 7 system? 8 MR. SIMON: Yes. I don't know for suro 9 if they nad them in manual. 10 MR. BELL: My final question has to do 11 witn tha exciter tield breaker. If the turbino 12 trips, the gensrator output braakers open and the () 13 exciter field breakar should also open? 14 MR. SIMON: The generator field bre2Kar would automatically open and the operator would 16 open tne exciter fiold breaker _trom the all directs 17 to put the excitation on tne exciter. la MR. QUENNOZ: That's corract. It snould the generator field breaxar 19 open to protect 20 should open to protect'the generator from 21 overexcitation. 22 MR. BELL: So you have two separate 23 breakers. One of them supplies the e xcita tion 24 control from tnc excitor to the generator, and the 73N) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

34 1 exciter field breaker control controls the exciter () \\"' 2 tield? 3 MR. QUENNOZ: They.havo 900 hundred RPM. 4 They have to make sure that's open so they don't 5 overexcita the generator field on coast'down. 6 MR. ROSSI: It's not normally done -7 automatically. It's a procedural thing only? 8 MR. QUENNOZ: For the exciter. Tho 9 genarator is. If the turbine trips without the 10 generator trip, then you will nave the generator 11 output breakers.open and the generator field 12 breaker will also open automatically, and then at () 13 some point in timo in the procedure they would go 14 to open axcitsr. 15 MR. BELL: This exciter ticld breaker 16 boing closed is an abnormal situation for this 17 particular plant status. It's an ope ra tion action 13 that shnuld have occurred, but had not. occurred at 19 this point in time. 20 MR. SIMON: Yes. I would say that io 21 trua. It should have been done by then, although I 22 realize they were busy. 23 MR. BELL: I do too. 24 MR. BEARD: Could you give us some feal, gSL) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION /L

1 35 1 Louis, as to the significance of tnat step not A i 2 having been taken yet? 3 MR. SIMON: No, I don't Know. I'm not 4 positive what that would do to the excitor. 5 MR. BEARD: I maan, is this of major 6 significance or minor significance? 7 MR. SIMON: Minor to me at the time. 8 MR. ROSSI: When you say minor, are you 9 saying with respect to sa f e ty or -- 10 MR. SIMON: Equipment. 11 MR. ROSSI: Give us its significance with 12 respect to safety and then give us its signiticance ()_ 13 with respect to equipment damage associated witn 14 the gene ra tor. 15 MR. SIMON: I did not consider it's 16 naving any safety significance. Probably equipment 17 damage or degradation. 13 MR. BEARD: Okay. Have you finished your 19 question, sir? 20 MR. BELL: I have one more question. 21 Tnis 235 pound rellet valve that was lifting when 22 you first came into the plant site, that's a relief 23 valva on the suxiliary staam system? 24 Md. SIMON: Yes. fs (_ RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

36 1 MR. BELL: Now, the aux steam systam is ,o k 2 supplied from the main steam system? 3 MR. SIMON: Yes. 4 MR. BELL: Which had no pressure? 5 MR. SIMON: Right. 6 MR. BELL: But this, you theorized that 7 this pressure was coming from the dasuperneating 8 water and lifting this valve. 9 MR. SIMON: No. I tneorize that they had 10 fired.the auxiliary boiler and brought it up to 11 pressure when tne MSIVs closed, no steam, no loads, 12 Onat tne boiler pres ':na was probably causing tho (]) 13 reliof to litt. 14 MR. QUENNOZ: The auxiliary syatem steam 15 can ne supplied by either main steam or tne boiler. 16 MR. BELL: I understand. Ona final 17 question and then i will turn it over to JT. Have la you ever had a history at this plant of having any 19 water hammers occur in the secondary system when 20 you lost pumps such as the main teedpumps, small 21 loaxa depressurize the pipe and the hot water 22 flashs? 23 MR. SIMON: No. Not directly that I know 24 of. I have had reports trom people that there was gm N.] RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

37 1 steamlines jumping on the MSRs post-trip. I don't /~') \\/ 2 know it tna t's true or not. And Cnat's there 3 have been problems rarely on the main steam system. 4 When tirst starting a plant haatup and drawing 5 vacuum on steam generators, I have noted tnera was 6 occasionally some water hammer on the main 7 steamlinos. 8 MR. BELL: I'm more interested in the 4 9 main feedwater system. I have a real question in 10 my mind concerning the tact that the high pressure 11 hca tar section of piping between the startup 12 feedpump discharge and the feed bypass inlat valve, () 13 if you nad any flashing in tnat ares, tnen it would 14 taxa a while tor that startup teedpump to collapse 15 tnat void and to actually start teeding tha steam 16 generators. 17 And the purpose of my question is to try 18 to aid us in determining the first source ot feed 19 to No. 1 steam generator, whetner tnere was really 20 the startup foodpump or the auxiiisry teadwater 21 pump. And.I realize you came in late so l 22 MR.-SIMON: I probably can't answer tnat. 23 There nsve on rare occasions been some water hammer 24 in the feedwater lines to thu steam generators U,3 RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZSD TRANSCRIPTION

38 1 usually when first establisning feed. !^\\> 2 MR. BELL: All right, sir. .3 MR. LANNING: How about water hammers in 4 the auxiliary toedwater sys tam? 5 MR. SIMON: Other than recently in the 6 last few months, there hasn't been a nistory ot any 7 problems in that area. 8 It's not uncommon due to the design of 9 the steamlines to tna aux feedpumps for the aux 10 feedpumps to get some slugs of water tnrough them. 11 I didn't considor this real significant until 12 recently-when they found some piping hanger damago () 13 I believo on the steamlines to tna aux feedpumps. 14 MR. ROSSI: By recent, you maan -- 15 MR. SIMON: This cycle, since January. 16 MR. ROSSI: Not since this event, but 17 prior to tnis event. 13 MR. SIMON: Right. 19 MR. ROSSI: Stava? 20 MR. Q U E N!!O Z : I want to comment on that I'm trying to-tigura out 21 aux feedwator. We had 22 if that would even ba credible because what 23 happened was you had a turbine trip and tho main 24 steam or the main turbine stop valves, control a RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

i 39 1 valves and sat valves all closed. And the stop (") >\\' 2 valves themselves are very fast acting; the; aro 3 just within a second. 4 So you stop steam to your extraction 5 points. And you would have some steam in the 6 cross-over, cross-around piping that was runing that fee' pump. We nad a teadpump No. 2 tna t was running d 7 d for a prolonged period of time. 9 MR. SIMON: Pour or fivs minutes. 10 MR. QUENNDO: You would havo a hard time 11 MR. BELL: But where was it discnarging? 12 MR. QUENNOZ: The feedpump? () 13 MR. BELL: Ysah, just through its racirc 14 valves? Because tne isolation valves was closed by 15 nis low pressure manual actuation, weren't thay? 16 MR. SIMON: Not for the first five 17 minutea. 18 MR. QUENNOZ: You have got that later on 19 too. So you have subcool wa ta r. 20 Md. BELL: So you have coolad that 21 section down? 22 MR. QUSNNOZ: With no steam from the 23 extraction. 24 MR. BELL: With the running main foadpump. O RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

i 40 ~ for clarification, I should say l Maybe I should 2 the No. 2 main teadpump. 3 MR. QUENNOZ: Uh-hun. 4 MR. LANNING: I want to go bacK to the 5 water nammers in the aux teedwater system to maka 6 sure I understand tne significance of these watar 7 hammers. Is it acceptable that you hava slugs of 8 water going to the turbino or tno pump? 9 MR. S I M O ;J : I think it's inevitable with 10 the design of tne system in there some water is to 11 be expected. And as I understand it, the Terry 12 Turbine vendor says that some is acceptable, and we (]) 13 have had a nistory or operation over the years 14 where we have used aux f eodwa te r and the aux 15 feedpump turbines have been pretty rollable. 16 I can r e.n e m b e r a tew years ago wnere 17 people have said thay have seen when the system lid before they nad changad the exhaust lines to 18 off 19 their present location, they used to go straignt up 20 in the air oft tna turbine building, and there 21 would be guys see water off of those exhaust when 22 the pumps lid ott. 23 So to me it's not. unusual for them to get 24 slugs of water along steam runs of cold piping gs() RUN?OLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

41 1 between the isolation valves and the turbines. 'fh \\ 2 i4 R. QUENNO3: !4 a y b e I can put it in 3 perspectiva a little bit. We are in the process ot 4 working witn enginecting and also the region is 5 involved with analysis of the steam piping to the 6 aux feedpumps. 7 We had made some changes in the 1984 3 retuoling outage to improvu aux faedwatar 9 reliability, and we had subsequently found that 10 nangers had been removed from their mounting. And 11 during this investigation we nad triad to find tha 12 root cause, and we are still in une process or tasting () 13 a test program. But the damaga tnat we had found 14 wo traced back to about threa major causes or three 15 major concerns, I should ssy. 16 Wa had modified the steam supply valve 17 logics to the aux teadpumps to navo botn, all tour la of tnem opon on actuation. And tnat was to improve 19 their rallability auch that they could get a source 20 of steam tnat would annance tua availability of tna 21-auxiliary faadwater pumps. 22 This caused some problems witn actually 23 having thoso cross-over piping, as we call it, tne i l 24 steam supplies opan to the toadpump, and wo nave ( 1 RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

42 il soma balief that parh,aps that long run of piping, \\^ 2 that cross-over piping was allowing excessive 3 condensation of thac steam as it cama in. As Louis 4 montioned, tne cold oiping, not staam, you are 5 going to get soma condensation, and that was 6 causing excessive stress on the piping. 7 .t e also had some concern pernaps tnat the 3 testing of tna aux teedpumps prior to s ta r tup wnan 9 a source of nign pr3ssure staam is not available, 10 that.that was causing problems. But sinca tne 11 auxiliary boilar uses saturated steam, and wa nad 12 noticad when we had tasted, it you open up the () 13 source of steam, the supply valve, whien is a gate 14 valvo, that you ware getting some nammering ettects. 15 And then we also had some concern that Wa 16 identitied, traced back to analyses _t h a t during our 17 montnly surveillance testing, we were testing some la pressure switches wnich nad caused actuations of 19 the cross-over piping valves wnich would admit 20 staam to them, pernaps allow tnat steam to condenso 21 and than on a suosequent actuation cause them to 22 water. 23 We made those modifications. We changed 24 the logic back to its original form where it only fs ( ) 2 . v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i m

43 1 actuates on a normal actuation trom its own steam 2 generator, which is a real straight run ot pipe, 3 snort run of pipe. 4 We orovida procedural guidance in our 5 procedures tnat wnen we ara testing on low pressura 6 steam, we crack that throttla valve such to emit 7 steam at a very low rate, which would eliminate tna a water nammer problam. And also we modified the 9 monthly survaillance test wnen we test those we would ~10 pressure switenes tnat we would not 11 test tne. pressure switenes electronically and not 12 necessarily actuate the valve itselt, enat we () 13 actuate One valve enougn on other testing of ASME 14 Section XI 4.0.5 on the tecnnical.specitications to 15 insure that we got tna proper actuation or the 4 16 valve, it's wired up correctly. We made those 17 changes. la Subsequently we only nsd, we had one 19 nanger problem that I know or, but atter every 20 actuation, after overy test, we require quality 21 assurance and our nuclear facility engineering 22 department to waix down the steamlines detecting 23 damage. I think tha t's wnat Louis is talxing about. 24 MR. BELL: Is there any possibility that bv RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

44 -l water in this section of main. steam supply to tne b ^s 2 aux teedwater pump turbines could cause an aux 3 feedpump turbine overspead? 4 MR. SIMON: I would not expact that. 5 MR. QUENNOZ: I think it anytning, we 6 nave sean that the turbina labors under that. The 7 vendor itself tests the turbine under a water it will pump water. 8 condition. It will nandle 9 I mean, it will nandle water slugs. 10 The problem with the auxiliary feed 11 system is not the turbine; it will taKo anytning 12 you can give it. It's the piping tnat is tno weak (]) 13 point in tna system. 14 MR. LANNING: How about the valves? What 15 effect would these wa tar nammars have on the valves? 16 MR. QUENNOZ: Let ma clarity tnat. It's 17 not even tne piping. I t's the hangers on the 18 piping that are tno weak point in the system. 19 l1 R. LANNING: How about the valves in tna 20 system? These are the steam emission valvas we are 21 talking about. 22 MR. QUENNOZ: Uh-huh. 23 MR. LANNING: Wnat effect could water 24 hammers havo on these valvos? 7, (_) RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

45 1 MR. SIMON: I wouldn't expect any wa te r ,x I 's 2 at the valve. The valve is nine hundred or a 3 thousand pounds steam pressure on its supply side 4 and no pressure on its downstream side. There are 5 traps, little drain spots and staam traps on tne 6 nigh pressure side. 7. MR. QUENNOZ: I thing what dayne is 8 getting at maybe is a good' point. Tnose valves 9 tnat Louis is saying is when you first-have an 10 actuation, tnose valves shouldn't see water-you 11 Know, they will get open in tnat pariod ot time. 12 Now, if they go closed and subsequently () 13

actuate, I' don't know.

That has to be answered. 14 !!owever, wa do have testing which we checked the 15 steam traps on those valves undar the concern that 16 Louis had, that maybe the steam traps are not 17 operaolo and they were allowing water to build up 18 in some of tne low points of the piping, and we 19 have subsequently tnrough testing found out where 20 we actually drained tha water out, we were only 21 getting about a small amount of water. So the 22 traps are functional and tnoy have boon worning. 23 Engineering has looxed over tnat section 24 at cross-over piping, and I tnink they have come to g-L-) RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

i 46 1 th3 ccnclusion that the trap locations are adequate, .G kJ 2 but we could put more in; that there is potential 3 places where we could put additional traps to 4 eliminate any concerns or tnat sort. 5 The water itsolt rapidly moves down that 6 pipe as' pressure builds up and pressurizes that 7 pipe. S team comes down and starts collapsing and 8 has a difficult time because of the condensation 9 building up pressure. But once it builds up that 10 pressure, than it should push that watcr through 11 the system. 12 MR. LANNING: We are talking about valves () 13 numbers 106 and 107 now? 14 MR. QUENNOZ: 107-A and 106-A. 15 MR. BSARD: Are we tinisned with the 16 water nammer question? I don't want to interrupt. 17 Louis, botorc we got to I guess what will 13 be sort of a joint interview with you and Steve, I 19 would 11xe to have a little bit botter unde rs ta nding 20 of the way the procodures are implomonted. 21 When you get out of the immediate actions 22 and into the ones where you actually open the 23 procoduce and do the other stops, as a gonoral 24 question, in a general situation at Davis-Desse, RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERlZED TRANSCRIPTION

L 47 1 _ would that situation be the type wn2re one rm ) 'k/ 2 individual in a control room nas the procedure out 3 going through the words and whatnot to make sure 4 all the steps -- nothing is forgotten? 5 MR. SIMON: Yes. 6 MR. BEARD: Would that be one whera ha is 7 sort of reading and calling out the step and 8 expects a responsa trom one the aparators in tne 9 control room? 10 MR. SIMON: Yes. 11 MR. BEARD: Tha t's ganerally the way it 12 is dona? ,(] 13 MR. SIMON: Yes. ATOG is taicly new to 14 us. Actually it was implementad tor this startup 15 for this cycle, December, Janutry 16 MR. BEARD: But all the operators are 17 trained on tnat? ld MR. SIMON: tnis yaar. 19 Tnere was a lot of previous training. -We 20 did a lot of special training last summer wnsn tne 21 snifts went the licensed shifts went to 22 Lynchburg on tne slaulator. There was extensive 23 training on the simulator using tne ATOG proceduros m 24 and ironing out tnoir use, and there was additional ~J RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRAN3CRIPTION l h Y

43 g3 1 training in tha training ouilding. Thera is a.nockup L)- 2 control board, pictures, and it looks fairly 3 realistic altnough it nas no it's not a 4 simulator; it's just a model, and actually going 5 through transients on a c o ta pu te r tape showing 6 pressure /tumperature displays witn the Operating 7 shitts parforming their normal functions, dry runs 3 which they wouldn' t know what was on the tape, but 9 tney say, hora, you are at normal oparating 10 conditions and now you see these parameters all 11 changing and you can guess tne reactor trippad, you 12 -could see if you are into an overcooling / overheating 13 event, and cctually the assistant snitt sup using 14 tha procedures calling out to the reactor operators, 15 tnen walking around the board performing tneir 16 functions, we did all that last summor. 17 And I thinK the uso of the ATOG, evan la thougn it's a big change, was well lined by the 13 operators. And the trips we nave had this year, I 20 hear the oparators say that they use ~ the ATOG and 21 telt comtor ta ble with it. 22 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, the actions that 23 the assistant shift super would be'Say calling out () 24 from t tr e procedural document would include I would RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATE 3 (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

49 1 suppose -- and I'm asxing really -- some actions 7v ( 2 that were to oc taken that are follow-up actions 3 after tna immediato actions arc done? 4 MR. SIMON: Yes. 5 MR. BEARD: And some ot the other things 6 would be contirmatory or veritication in naturo. 7 So you have ganarally thosa two type tnings? 8 MR. SIMON: Ysa. 9 .4 R. BEARD: .Okay. Now, laaving the 10 general situation aside, let ma return now to the 11 event. If I remember what you said was that at 12 some point in the middle of the time betwaen when O\\J 13 you arrived and when Stavo arrived roughly in the 14 middla, Mr. Peasel returned to One control room and 15 had some discussion about apparontly he had been 16 down to work on tne startup pump? 17 MR. SIMON: Yes. 13 MR. BEARD: Okay. I think you said also 19 tnat when you arrived in tha control room, did you 20 notice tha t tha ATOG emergoney procedures ware laid 21 out and open? 22 MR. SIMON: Yes. 23 MR. BEARD: Okay. I'm trying to I) 24 understand whether the need to send an individual s-RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION 1

50 1 out at the. control room to do some action resulted (]/ \\_ 2 in a temporary interruption or the execution or 3 implementation of that procedura because or the way 4 it is normally. carried out, if one person called 5 .ou t and otner people' respond. Can you give me any 6 diract information or what your teolings are on 7 this matter? 8 MR. SIMON: Yes. Tne SRO in tne control 9 room, rules that we have nad for a year or so, 10 require an SRO in the aroa, and that in a transient 11 event, the shift supervisor is charged witn ataying 12 in the control room, that is his station, and 13 maintaining an overview. And I cannot toresee a 14 case where both senior licenses would leave tna 15 area. 16 I thinx we are adequately covered witn 17 supervision ror tne ovorall view of tno plant ind ld direction of the Ros with eith9r senior licens3, 19 cither the assistant snitt sup or tne shitt sup, 20 and normally the snitt sup would be the one that 21, would not leave the control room. 22 And I assums that Toddy Lehman was also 23 looxing at the procedures and that I Know he was on () 24 the phona to Bill O'Connor and I'm sure ne used the RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION l -p, y-t rv---- +-.v-- -w y9 +- --,y-7 y -m-p- --%e

51 ,r 3 - 1 procedures, and I think that adequate overview and ) 2 supervision was present. I don't s3e the 3 procedures were put aside and not used for a period 4 of time. 5 I know I think the conditions they were 6 at, tha t Teddy Lehman Knew where he was_and knew 7 what he was going to have to do next it tnings 8 turther degraded. I believe he was on top or the 9 situation, knew wnere he-was at in the procedures. 10 That's all. 11 MR. BEARD: I'm not trying to explore the 12 neod tor more peoplc and whether you ara adequately O '/ 13 manned. I'm only trying to understand what 14 nappenad during this event, that's all. 15 MR. SIMON: Yes. 16 MR. BEARD: And wnen you came into the 17 control room, you said you noticed tne procedures 18 were lying open I assume on a table top or a bench 3 19 or whatever. Was tnere someone thoro raading tnam 20 or doing tno function tha t you described earlier 21 would be tha normal way that things are implemented? 22 MR. SIMON: Yos. I believa tne STA and 23 tne shift supervisor were both tharo.with tne h 24 procadures open. v RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

t 52 rx 1 MR. BEARD: No, I mean, excuse ma,

Louis,

!j ' 2 I'm saying was tnera an individual enere calling 3 out the various steps and trying to get tne 4 response from tne operators? I 5 MR. SIMON: Not at tnc tima I arrived. l l 6 MR. BEARD: Onay. So tnat whetnar you l l l 7 would associato ary significance to it or not is a 8 separate question. The process et calling out tuo l 9 etaps and getting One actions or the confirmatory 10 responso from tne o p -a r a t o r s was not going on at il tnat timo you arrived? 12 MR. SIMON: Not at the tima. 7 \\ [~J \\ k-13 MR. BELL: But since auxiliary feedwater 14 was in sarvice and tne steam generator levela woro 15 normal and the plant nad returned to the stable 16 condition 17 MR. BEARD: No. 18 MR. BELL: -- would you bo in tna ATOG 19 procedures .a n y longer? 20 MR. SIMON: It's just tne back sections 21 tnat tell you to perform t n.2 post-trip procedure, 22 which I subsequently was perrorming. 23 MR. BELL: So we aro out at tno overnaating () 24 section of ATOG and into the post-trip recovery t RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (G14)445-d477 COMPUTERI4ED TRANSCRIPTION

53 /~s 1 section of ATOG. v) i 2 MR. BEARD: When you arrived. 3 MR. SIMON: Yes. 4 MR. ROSSI: Lct's saa. We go on to Stevo 5 now. 6 MR. BEARD: Aro we going to go into a 7 separata joint interview at tnis point? 3 MR. ROSSI: As tar as I was concerned wa 9 wara always in a joint interview. Steve nadn't 10 arrived yet so ne naan't had too much to say about 11 what was going on before he arrived. 12 MR. QUENNOZ: I wanted to make sure Louis O 13 MR. ROSSI: Why don't wa naar from Steve ~ 14 now on wnen you neard about it and wnen you arrivod. 15 MR. LANNING: I navo an administrativo 16 issue w2 can resolve. Can we go ott tne record? 17 (Thorcupon, a brief rocess was taken.) la 13 MR. ROSSI: Back on tha racord. Steva 20 Quonnoz is going to tell us when he first haard 21 about the event and wnat ha did trom then on and 22 wnat no obsarved at the plant. 23 MR. LANNING: Bofore that, hs is going to () 24 toll us now long you havo baon at the plant and RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATSS (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

54 1 your background, experience and education? 7- %s 2 MR. QUENNOZ: I have Daan a t' tno plant 3 for seven years. 4 I got out of the Navy and came to Toludo they call it 5 Edison. I was the technical 6 tecnnical superintandent now was my first position. 7 I was the assistant station superintendent for 9 operations, and than the last it hasn't been a year 9 yet I have baan plant managar. 10 MR. BEARD: What was your experiance with 11 regard to licensing as an operator or senior? 12 MR. QUENNOZ: I have a senior op e ra to r 's .]' 13 license. 14 MR. BSARD: How long navo you hsd it? 15 MR. QUENNOZ: Since 1981. 16 MR. USARD: 1981. Wore you an RO before 17 that or an instant sanior? 18 MR. QUENN0Z: Instant SRO. 19 14 R. ROSSI: Onay. You tirat hoard about 20 the avant how, about when? 21 MR. QUENNOZ: I got a call it was betwecn + 22 1:30 and 2:00 in the morning. I can't remember the 23 exact time. nih o n you gat thosa csllo, you Know () 24 it's from the plant. RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATE 3 (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED T R A t4 S C R I P T I O t1 1 .-...c

l 55 1 In general, people are pretty sneepish: gy v 2 eney are apologetic that the plant tripped or 3 something. This time Bill got on, said, Quannoz, 4 we got problems. We are in troubla. id e had a 5 plant trip, we have lost main feodwater and wa nave i 6 lost aux toodwater. 7 And it was just a state of unbelief or 8 disoeliet. I couldn't quito believe it had 9 happened. I asked him, I said, Well, 10 Bill said 11 what is the subcooling margin? It c said, wa got 12 plenty of succooling margin. O 13 wnat about steam generator levels? !!e 14 said, We have got steam ganorator levels. But tne 15 plant I think at that time ne said the plant is 16 starting to heat up, realizing that tne trip would 17 taxe pressuro tamparaturas down tor i period of 13 tima. 19 one thing he did say, ha said and I 20 apologize, Mary ne said, Quenno4, tney are 21 scared snit 10ss. He said, I'm on the phone and I can naar tnam yelling in the 22 they are just 23 background. () 24 And at that point in timo, tha t's what RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

56 fm 1 got ma concerned. I said, aill, gat bacx on tha b 2 pnone. Get tnem in tna procedure. Make sure tney 3 ara going in tha right direction. Whatavar you do, 4 if you navo to stay on tne phone, get tnam in 5 thare. 6 And no didn't say PORV ii P I cooling. !!e -7 said, We are not on it yet, but I have g i v ia n them 3 I told them to, if you don't get aux teadwator back 3 right away, got on it. And but I can remember I 10 said, Get tnam in the procodure, calm them down and 11 got them going in tna right direction, stay on tho 12 phone, got enem going in the right direction. O i 13 And than he said, Well, wncro tra you 14 going to bo? We may need to make some heavy-woight 15 decisions pretty soon. 16 I said, I will stay right here. I will 17 got drossed and I will wait ror your call. 18 Woll, I got addrassed: I nad time for 19 that. I looked in tha emergency plan; it was a 20 sito emergoney. 21 I got called back, and I don't know what 22 time it was; I'm trying to tigure-th2t out. It was 23 either probsbly shortly atter 2:00 oc shortly () 24 baforo 2:00 he said he would call back. And na RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

~ 57 'q l said we got the startup pump on, we nava got tna .%/ 2 aux feedpump, one of the aux teedpumps on, wo aro 3 beinging the other ona up. 4 I said, Do you Know wnst happenod? And 5 no said, We had an SFRCS. Ho said, The MSIV snut, 6 tus operators wanted to get aux faadpumps on, and 7 they had prassed una wrong outtons. 8 I said, Wall, did tnwy get tnem noy 9 get them back? And I thinx ha said, althougn I 10 naven' t really contirmed this, tnat ho went to 11 initial oypass and got tnam back on. 12 I asned nim what the plant was doing. fle O 1J says. It's cooling down. Ile says, We navo got it 14 it's going back to normal paramotors. 15 I talked to him about tne emergency-plan, 16 and we both agreed we woron't in snytning right now; 17 we waro in a site emergoncy. I don't tnink I l 18 don't tnink I can racount who said what, out tno I 19 conversation went along tha linas, Wnat are wo l l 20 going to do aoout tnto, becausa we don't have a 21 situation wo are in, and'yet vs ware in a site 22 omargency and it's not covorod. And I think wa 23 both agesed we have got to approach it logically. ! (^>) 24 And we talked about oubcooling margin, we \\ RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-0477 COMPUTCRIZED TRANSCRIP' TION

SS 1 talked about tna tuel DNBR, departuro tram nuclear 2 boiling considerations. We nad adequate tiow at 3 all times, reactor coolant system flow, we nad 4 presaure, we did not navo excoasivo temperatura. 5 I remember nim saying,. gee wniz, we only 6 got ten degrees above normal. Bill said we didn' t 7 nave any abnormal radiation alarms, tnere was no S relosso in progress. We w-a n t through the tnrea 9 barriors as far as the tuel, the RCS and the j 10 contsinment, and enore was a discussion at soma i 11 point in time on exactly wnat BAL we are in. And I 12 thinx both ot us were very hesitant to overlook 13 that sito amargency. i 14 MR. BELL: But neither one et you are at 15 tna plant. l 16 MR. QUENN0Z: Neither one of us aro At 17 the plant. da nad said, Look, what nelp do tney la need? Do they really need people trying to 19 calculste ott sito deses. Do wa need people to bu 20 preparing tor avacuation of the public or something 21 of that sort? i 22 And it really convinced us wnst was nooded J. 23 right now was to got the tucnnical ocction in and l () 24 work through tho 2nalysis, po s t-tr i p analysis. We RUNFOLA r ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTSRIZED TRANSCRIPTION i I

l 59 l' needed to get maintenance in to work on some or 2 these problems. 3 de left it that Bill wanted to got in, 4 the same witn with me; I wanted to get in the plant. ha said that no had told Toddy Lenman 5 We left 6 tnat tnings ware settling down, look at the EALs 7 and use his best judgmant. !!c told Tod na called 8 Louis, and Louis was coming in, and both nimselt 9 and mysalf were on the way in and to use his best I got into the car and 10 judgment. And we got 11 cama on in. 12 MR. LANNING: What did you know about the 13 transient tnat tne stamm g e nera tors nave undargone? 14 In other words, at tnis time, did'you Know that all 15 the inventory in eno s team generator nad been 16 depleted or not? 17 MR. QUENNOZ: On the second the first 18 call we nad, we nad invuntory. On the second call, 19 I assume we were we nad' built up trom that point 20 on. 21 Now, I know the ATOG procedure c2lls for 22 st.irtup faedpump. I'm really not suro it we 23 discussed generator lovels. I Onink we said that () 24 wi.navor got below tan incnoa, which was what we RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERI4SD TR ANSCRIP PION

50 rw 1 consider a dry steam generator, that or nina \\ 2 nundred and sixty pounds. 3 MR. LANNING: So at this time it's your 4 understanding tnat the staam generatora nad not 5 gono dry?. 6 MR. QUENNOZ: I'm pratty sure na said 7 eney never got below ten inenos. 3 MR. BEARD: I guess trom your own 9 nnowledge ot tne plant portormanco and oxperience, 10 Steve, you Know it they lost main teod and aux toud, 11 levels are going to coma down. And the question ot 4 12 whatnar it drias out or not depends on how soon 13 they get tna pumps bicx. 14 MR. QUENNOZ: Cxactly. 15 MR. BEARD: So you knew trom your own 16 tninxing whethat we discussed it or not you were 17 losing level and I guess you may have presumed they 18 turned it around betore they dried it out. In tnat 19 Cno sind of thing you are telling us? 20 MR. QUENN0Z: Tns t's tno xind ot thing-i 21 wnero I nite to say tnat exactly, since you ato 22 kind of putting words in my mouth. 23 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you let nim say it () 24 the wsy ha ought to any it. t RUN!'OLA & ASSOCIATCS (614)445-0417 COMPUTERIZHD TRANSCRIPTION i

t 61 rw 1 MR. QUENN0Z: That is the way I was (-) 2 ninKing at tne time. de really were trying to resolv a 3 whether wa should cover our butt by declaring that 4 site amergency, and I think we -5 MR. BELL: Excuse mc. What do you mean 6 by tha:7 7 MR. QUENN0Z: Well, we both 3 MR. BELL: From a regulatory point at 9 view or from s necessity point of view to taKo care 10 or the plant? i 11 MR. Q U E N t4 0 Z : We nad resolved in Our mind 12 we did not need it for a regulatory point at view, 13 but we were in a gray arsa as far as we did have 14 one ano wa didn't want to go around trying to Juat i 15 overloon that tact, and it was a consideration in 16 my mind. de had resolved previously that wa nad 17 anough people going out to support tha plant and wa ld wera going to gat more people a r. d tnat tnero was 19 not a need for analysis.i n d assessment and all the 20 agencies. 21 MR. USLL: I think you answerad my 22 question. Would you continue, pleas). i 23 MR. ROSSI: Lat's Joa. You worc on tno () 24 phone still talAing with Bill O'Connor. ( RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (6L4)445-6477 j COMPUTERI4ED TRANSCRIPTION (

62 1 MR. QUSNN0Z: With uill. 2 MR. ROSSI: Wnen did you terminate tn2 3 pnone call and why don't you just procaed to when 4 you went to tne plant? 5 MR. QUENN0Z: Oxay. Attar thst I got to 6 the plant. I was later than u111 and Louts. 7 on, no, sait a minuta. Excuse ma. I I live tarther sw2y tnan uill. uill 8 cold uill 9 is closer, and I told him to call Tarry Murray 10 bacsuae I know no could b c;s t me in and I Knuw that 11 no was on una pnone and nad all tno details. 12 I said, P12*sa call Tarry, givs him a 0 13 ststus raport, and I'll go in. I got in the car, 14 and I gat going. I neaded gas. I turned around, 15 got gas, esmo on in. So I was later tnan tne rest 16 ot tnam. 17 MR. uSLL: Let ma interrupt you at one la point. .i e havv already apologiacd Lor Mary in 19 giving tha appraissl of how the oporators waro acting. 20 How did you teel at tnia timo? Were you a180 very 21 nervous? Did it shaxe you up? 22 Md. QUENt02: .h l l, yeah, it shook me up. 23 But I don't tnink I was naarly as nervous as tho l () 24 operators we o. I nad enough timo to recollact on RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTBRIZED TRANSCRIPTION

.=. 4 63 1 exactly wha t ene SALs ware, what some or the otnar 4 2 requirements, wnat tnay would be going enrough as 3 tar as thu other proceduro. I think Bill and I 4 both knew we had to go on with m2Koup li P I cooling. 5 We wanted to get thom in the right direction. 6 MR. BEARD: Was gatting them in T L 7 procedura, Steve, was that in effort to assure tne 8 appropriata satoty sctions wars LAKan, although i 9 tha t's of coursa critical. But I get the 10 impression what you are thinking was more along tnu 11 line of calming down the opera tors and getting them j 12 in a modo tna t's more otractive to doing tha rignt O 13 tning as much as it was to maxe sure tha right 14 procadures wuro dona? 15 MR. QUENNOZ: Both. But it turns out on 16 the nsat pnono call, uill said, li e y, thuy woro in 4 I r 17 and tney wore going. !!o said, Thay pretty wall nad la ths situation under control at s11 timas, and 19 subsequent analysis shows that they wcre neading in ~20 the right direction. Tnat was tha p+rception inst 21 he got over tno phone. 22 Md. BELL It was mora of the excitamont 23 at tho moment than really being nervous. Tnay waru (]) 24 portorming in a protosalonal mannar in your opinion? RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATUS (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

~ f 64 rw 1 MR. QUENNOZ: From what we sua of the - U 2 their actions post-trip, I thinx they portormed in 3 a commandable tasnion and I think they damonstratad l 4 they woro 11 ways going in the right diraction. 5 That was tne thing I got out or it, that they Knew 6 where tha plant was and they were proceeding in 1 7 tnat direction. Tnat when they did nsve. problems, 3 they recogn14ed tncm, took Action to correct it, 9 and got right back on track. And in tha t case, you 10 Know, I'm pcesonally very proud at tna operatora. 11-I thinx wo sll are. 12 !1 R. BEARD: Stove, in vias ot time, let 13 ma intterupt the normal aoquonce and cover i i 14 .sometning in a minute. One of the things I would 1 15 lixo to cover and we are on some timo cons train ts 16 is the post-trip review process and procedura that 17 you nave here at your plant and to what axtent you 4 13 navo completed tna implomontation at that for this 19 particular avant. 6f n a t I would like to suggest is I 20 could wa anter into the record, it it is already 4 21 with you, a copy at ena procedure and tnun apend 22 about ono minuta tulling us roughly now far along i 23 you are at this point in timo on that and tnan a () 24 return. I would ling to 99t that in before we R U :4 P O L A & ASSOCIATBS (014)145-3477 L COMPUTERIZBD TRANSC54IPT10N

65 ,- ~g 1 finisn tua interview. V 2 MR. QUENNOZ: I'm not sure it I have got 3 it, if they made a copy or it and brougnt it in. 4 MR. BSARD: Tha t's tino. Ort tne top of 5 your naad, sbout wnero you are. Are you nalfway 6 tnrougn, 90 porcent, 10 percant? Do you nave a 7 feel tor that? 8 MR. ROSSI: Lot me go bacx just a minuta, 9 Detore you snowar that. I wondor LL befors you 10 answer whore you are, could you give us a brief 11 summary about wnat your precedura requir:3s witn 12 respact to post-trip revi3w and wnat kind ot O k-13 documentation is required by it and then toll us 14 where you are. 15 MR. BEARD: That would oa tine. 10 MR. QUENNOZ: W911, we had an addendum to 17 our tri p recovery procedure that actually we had 18 prior to the ATWS/Sslam i n c i d er n t. It roaLly was an 19 ettort to mmxe sure tnat wo didn't start up witn 20 having tne trip properly analyzad. 21 da occause of tnat with Salem beefod that 22 up to includo a much more tnorough review of it, 23 but basically what it uncompasods is the STA wfl1 (( ) 24 review the post-trip d 's t a and try

• o Ldontify RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)446-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

66 1 anomalios in the plant performance, and na will 2 also, as is prompted by a number of questions on 3 plant parameters, it would be he insures satety 4 limits were not exceeded or technical 5 specifications were not excoeded. 6 And assically it's a structured review 7 process, fairly simplo, but it gets nim to the 8 point where there is no unreviewed safety questions 9 in tnat particular trip. And if necessary, if he a 10 sees anomalies wnich he's not satiatied with, it 11 bucas a problem on up to other people, such as tne 12 station review board. And there are sign-ofts on 13 it ror management and by the snitt supurvisor that, 14 you Know, tno STA unat thay navo completed their I 15 reviews. 16 Now, we also have a program tha t's 17 incorporation with B & W: it's called transient 13 assessment plan. Tne owners or the particular 19 reactors participate in that program and they 20 prepare a report, a very detailed report of every 21 trip or ovant, ot interest to othur u& W utilities. 6 22 And it is a practice to navo the parsonnel trom tno 23 tech section, predominantly Stan datch, Jim Marley () 24 or Jacque Lingunfalter come in and raviow tna data. RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 l COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

67 g3 1 We hava a computer, a data icquisition V 2 display computar which will log data over a 3 twenty-four hour period, and what they do is como 4 in, get it printed out. He has a graphical plotter 5 display that eney can get plots out so we can 6 analyze the data, and they will coma in and grab 7 wnat we call eno sequence of events, post-trip 8 review, and also the alarm typer and they will go 9 tnrougn it in detail. 10 MR. ROSSI: Let me stop you just a minuta. 11 The Sequanca of events, thit's a computer printout? 12 MR. QUENNOZ: Tha t's a nigh speed O 13 computar printout by our MODCOMP that nas what wo 14 call some very salacted SOS points. It is down to 15 tne millisacond logging rango. And it will log the 16 actuation at all your major satoty systems suen as 17 your RCS and your ARTS, SFRCS and SFAS so you can 18 reconstruct it. 19 i1R. ROSSI: Then you montioned 2 post-trip 20 review? 21 MR. QUENNOZ: Post-trip review. 22 MR. ROSSI: That's the analyais tha t's 23 dona by the STA people or is that a computer () 24 printout also? l RUNPOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION i

i Gd i 1 MR. QUENNOZ: No, sir. That's a subroutins 2 that prints out tittren minutes betore tha accident 3 tha event that trips the Sequence Of Evants, and 4 also I think thirty minutes atterwards. And it 5 logs them in up to tittoen-second intervals. And 6 what it does is it supplies you with a cnronology 7 of plant parameters prior to and atter they trip to 8 aid your analysis. 9 Tha t's what wo used to have per our 10 process computer, and we would actually have 11 students or enginearing plot out choaa. Subsequantly 12 we havo got another computer system that int 2racts O 13 with process computars, it has fiberoptic 14 connections and it's in this building here and it 15 will log several hundred parameters for subsequent 16 printouts. I forget vnat the logging interval is, 17 but I think it's down to the second on the DADS 18 system. But it will also plot out those parametera 19 pretty quickly so we can hava a batter analysis at 20 the trip. 21 MR. ROSSI: And then you mentioned the 22 data acquisition? 23 MR. QUENNOZ: Tha t's the DADS that we () 24 call it, tne data acquisition display syntom. RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

69 1 MR. ROSSI: And tha t's a third essentially (e g -) 2 computer printout Kind of -- 3 MR. QUENNOZ: Exactly. 4 MR. ROSSI: -- tha tnird ona. The three 5' are Seque9.co of Events, the post-trip raview and 6 the data acquisition? 7 MR. QUdNNOZ: And display gratts and da ta. 3 MR. BSARD: Steve, can I ask a point ot 9 claritication? These po s t-tr i p reviews printout 1 10 you roterred to, would that be printed on the same 11 page as with tha. alarm printer, line the Sequence 12 Of Events is? 4 13 MR. QUENNOZ: No. The alarm, the alarm 14 printar will printout on a typer that we nave in 15 ene control room proper. And the CRT w'll flag the 16 post-trip review and the Sequence Of Evants wnen 17 they are ready. And tho oparitor will have them 18 print it out on wnat we call a enain printer in the 19 computer room. Tncy will print those out. 20 MR. BEARD: Let ma ask a question of th) 21 team. It a v a we requestad or have we received a copy 22 of that particular printout? 23 MR. BELL: I don't tnink so. ,s , ( j' 24 MR. BEARD: I don't think-we have been r s RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

70 ,e'] 1 awara that tha t was the type of thing wa should \\._/ 2 have asked tor. And it may be, Steve, we nave not 3 asxed for it, and I would like to do so at this 4 time. 5 MR. QUENNOZ: OK:2y. 6 MR. SIMON: I was told you did nava it. 7 I nad the originals. We nad copies all over, but 8 MR. BELL: ll o w many pagas are in this 9 documant7 10 MR. SIMON: The post-trip raview is 11 fairly thics. 12 MR. BELL: It would be thirty pages? 13 MR. SIMON: Or more. 14 MR. ROSSI: That may oa tne one that you 15 and I were looking at yesterday. ,16 MR. BELL: It has red writing on it po s t-tri p 17 review, Saguence Of Evonts. Sequence Of Events is 18 a single page. 19 MR. BEARD: We got a computer printout, -20 out I was under the impression it was the DADS 21 printout. 22 MR. BELL: It looKs more of an alarm listing 23 than it does a post-trip raview, tne document wo .rm 'q) 24 have. l RUNFOLA.& ASSOCIATES (614)44S-3477 i COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

71 1 MR. QUENNOZ: If you have got one on a (g 1 2 little short picco of paper eight 2nd a half by 3 elevan 4 MR. ROSSI: I thinx ratnce than talk 5 about tnat rignt now -- 6 MR. BURNS: Sort that out later. 7 MR. ROSSI: Tna t's a sir.ple thing to do. 8 Why don't wa let him tell us whether 9 we are going to want to intarrupt this interview 10 and go on the plant tour nere in a minute. But 11 betore wo do that, could you answer two questions I 12 guess. 13 First question is for this kind of evant, 14 does tnat trigger a spacial kind of a post-trip 15 analysis according to your procedure? Clearly you 16 are doing a special Kind, but according ;o your 17 procedura, does this Kind of an event triggar a 18 special type of review? 19 MR. QUENNOZ: They are at ena point right 20 now wnore they can't sign off the unreviewed safety 21 question issues, so they are at all stop. Thoy 22 will have to get, realizing now we have a major 23 effort underway by our paoplo to provide action rm () 24 plans for correct.to action, they have just RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

72 1 deferred that knowing we are not going to os starting g 2 up in the near futuro. 3 But normally in a normal situation, if 4 they get to a point which is arter tnay cascribe 5 tne avant and the detail that they feel adequato, 6 and it comes down to the point where Oncy nsve to 7 sign oft, the shift's technical advisor and the 3 shifts supervisor have to sign oft two major 9 questions they navo got to the root cause, and that 10 there is no sataty limits exceeded. 11 It they can't sign that orf, then that 12 kicks it out of tnair hands and it is into the line G 13 management of the station to davelop whatever 14 process-as are necessary to satisty them so tnoy can 15 get tnat signature. 16 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Tha t's in your 17 proceduro, tnat it gets bumped up if they.can not 13 sign off tna unresolved safety issues?- 19 MR. QUENNOZ: Yes. 20 MR. BELL: One snort question. Seems 21 lixe the event can be dividad into several areas. 22 First, for somo unknown taason, No. 1 main foedpump 23 was lost. But you still nad No. 2 main teadpump? (m) 24 -MR. QUENNOZ: Tna t's correct. t RUNFOLA &' ASSOCIATES-( 614)145-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

73 - em, 1 MR. BELL: At that point in the transient, fG' 2 the plant would nave bcen axpected to behave 3 normally. Don't let me put worda in your mouth. 4 P12ase interject if I'm incorrect. 5 MR. QUENNOZ: That's true. 6 MR. BELL: The second occurrenca, tor 7 some unknown reason the Main Steam Isolation Valves 8 closed? 9 MR. QUENNOZ: Un-huh. 10 MR. BELL: Now we are into a loss of 11 normal main to feedwater. Had that not occurred, 12 the plant would still be in a normal transiont? O 13 MR. QUENNOZ: Uh-huh. 14 MR. BELL: So really the initiating avent 15 tnat caused.this abnormal transient was the 16 closures or the Main Steam Isolation Valves? 17 MR. QUENNOZ: Uh-huh. 18 MR. BELL: Tne third thing, nad tnose 19 Main Steam Isolation Valves eitner gentleman may 20 respond. Had those Main S taam Isolation Valves not 21 closed, the personnel error of pushing tne wrong 22 buttons would not hava occurred? 23 MR. SIMON: Tha t's correct. rm 4) 24 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Wny don't you just RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-d477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

74 1 give us a brief statomont or how far along you are gq V 2 in the post-trip analysis, and tnen I would suggast 3 we terminate. 4 MR. BEARD: Betore you do that, could you 5 describe tne two documents that ara on tne tabic so 6 they can.be properly entered? 7 MR. QUENNOZ: Yes. One is PP, wnien is 8 plant procedure 1102.03 called trip racovery. 9 MR. BEARD: Could that be identified as 10 Exnibit 1 for this intarview. 11 MR. QUENNOZ: And the next down is an 12 informal document called the p o s t-t r i p review ('> 13 guidelinas, and it is internal to tno technical 14 section wnien providas them guidance on how to 15 properly review a reactor trip. 16 MR. BEARD: Could that be marked as 17 exhibit two? And I would likc to Just say that the 18 information you presented us doas not include any 19 results of this procedure for this evant; is that 20 correct? 21 MR. QUENNOZ: Tha t's correct. 22 MR. BEARD: Okay. Excuse me for 23 interrupting. (J 24 MR. ROSSI: Why don't you just give us a ~ RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION L_

75 3 1 very briet statement on now tar I'm not even sJ 2 sure this is worthwhila, getting a statenent on now 3 far along they are. You Know, it's suen a 4 complicated event, why don't we just wait and talk 5 to~ him about it. 6 MR. BEARD: Let me asx a specific 7 question tnat would focus on it. I would presume 8 the proceduro you descrioed, the STA would do most 9 of the work, and it would includo his development 10 or a daquence Of Events and otner things of that 11 manner and then there would be soma assassment made 12 trom tnat. Have you gotton to the part wnore ne's (3 \\# 13 developed some Sequence Of Events and then you aro 14 at tne point where they maxe a datermination on tne i 15 safaty question and they are at a stoppage tnero? 16 Can you give us soma f o ss i as to what nas happened? 17 MR. QUENN0Z: .d e l l, once it's out of the 13 STA's nands, once he says there is a safety concern 19 I thinx is a batter word for it, it is turned over 20 to the e ta tion at that point in tima, realizing 21 that STA is on a r o t a t. i o n. He's out of the picture 22 except for just, you Know, just interviewing him as 23 tar as that. The s ta tion now is working actually. () 24 It's out of the STA's hands and it' e in the RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES (614)445-8477 COMPUTERIZ8D TRANSCRIPTION

76 1 station's hands, and we are in tha procass of cx(j - 2 developing action planning teams and assigning 3 leadars. 4 And I thinx I did tha initial part of 5 that, of identifying the concerns we want to 6 address, who the people are and who nas lead 7 responsibility. And those individuals are working 8 with their engineering counterparts, witn their 9 station counterparts, bringing in consultants and 10 the vendors and also architecr enginears and our 11 NSSS vendor. ' 12 MR. BEARD: I think I Know wnara you aro 13 at the moment, Stave. It wa raview this procedure 14 and we get to the point tnero is a requirement to 15 maxe a determination with regard to tne ssfoty 16 question concernad, would it be reasonabis to say 17 that's tne point whard you are in tnis procedure? 13 MR. QUENNOZ: Correct. 19 MR. ROSSI: Okay. What we will we 20 ware at the point in terms of talking about tne 21 avant and wnat Stavo Quennoz did at tha time of the 22 event. We were basically at the point wnero you 23 were haadod to the site. I don't thinx you had [v) 24 gotten to tno sito in the interview as yet. RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATES ( 614 ) 4 4 5-d 17 7 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

77 g3 1 So wnat we will do is stop now and wa Q 2 will just nava to come bacK latar and talk to you 3 about tho events that occurred attar you got to tha 4 site, and then we will be.ta1 King to you scout a 5 number ot things that have to do with p o s t-tr i p 5 6 reviews and I'm sura numcrous othat things with 7 respect to the plant status .t h a t occurrod in the 8 days after the evant. 'de will come Dick. i 9. MR. BEARD: I would like -- 10 MR. ROSSI: Let's just terminate the 11 interview. 12 O 13 Inereupon, the interview was 14 concluded at 11:05 o'clocx 2.m. 15 16 17 .i 18 19 20 21 22 23 G k_) 24 RUNFOLA & ASSOCIATSS (614)445-6477 COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION

i 78 L 1 CERTIFICATE O r 1 2 I, Nicholas Marrone, i Registarad i 1 3 Professional Reporter and Notary Puolic in and tor I ) 4 tne State at Ohio, do hereby certify that I took 5 tna atoromantioned interview and that tne toragoing 6 transcript of such proceedings la a tull, trua and i I 7 correct transcript of my stenotypy notas as so d taAan. \\ I 9 I do further certify that I was callad I 10 t n e r '2 in tha capacicy of a Registerad Protassional l 11 Reportar, and am not otherwise intcreated in this I 12 proceeding. O 13 IN WITNESS dil E R E O F, I have hareunto set 14 my hand and atrixad my saal of office at Columbus, 15 Ohio, on this f ~ day at 7%p 1985. 16 h 17 M N I CliO L AS A. M A R R Oi4 3, R :gista rad 13 Protassional Reporter, Notary Public in and for tne State of Onia. 19 20 My C o m.n i s s i o n expiras Novaabar 1, 1387. 21 22 1 l l 23 l h 24 RU:l FOL A 5 ASSOCIATES (614)445-3477 C O :i P U T E R I 4 B D TRANdCRIPTION}}