ML20129B822
| ML20129B822 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 07/09/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290267 | |
| Download: ML20129B822 (71) | |
Text
PML l
O UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: _
DAVIS BESSE IllCIDEi1T (IllTERVIEW 8 f1EETil1G)
(CLOSED)
S FARCS Operations and Action Plan to Trouble Shoot the 6-9-85 Anomalies.
LOCATION: UAK HARBOR, OH PAGES: 1 - 69 DATE: July 9, 1985 l
l l
O ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, D.C. 20001 0507290 PDR A g $j80 346 (202)347-3700 PDR T NAUCNWIDE COVERACE L
.c __
1 -2 Sim-lb4' I UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 '
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 -__
ITUESDAY, JULY 9,1985 6 ---
7 8 ' MEETING BETWEEN THE NRC FACT-FINDING TEAM AND TOLEDO EDISON 9 ON 10 SFRCS OPERATION AND ACTION PLAN TO
~II TROUBLE SHOOT TIIE 6-9-85 ANOMALIES 12 13 ___
14 15 NRC' FACT-FINDING MEMBERS PRESENT:-
16 ERNEST h0SSI
-17 J. T. BEARD LARRY BELL 1 18 OTHER NRC MEMBERS PRESEN'n 19
-MR. CHOULES, NRC, Region III 20 .M8,. HELLE, NRC, REGION III TOLEDO EDISON MEMBERS PRESENT:
21 MR. GRIME 22 MR. JAIN' MR.,STALTER
.23 MR..'MOMINEE ,
MR. IIELLE" 24 MS. MacDONALD' Ac) Federal Reporters, lac.
25 ALSO PRESENT:
1 4 ,
y . ,
(
L.
I l-1-Wal, Jo 3 i
1 P R O,g g g D I E g S (9:30 a.m.)
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay. I guess we are ready 3 to begin, and this is going to be a meeting to dis cuss 4 the operation and design of the steam and feedwater rupture 5 control system, and as a preliminary thing we have passed 6 around some sketches and diagrams of the system operation, 7 and these have been prepared primarily by J. T. Beard from 8 information that has been provided to us from earlier 9 meetings up here, and what we want to do is discuss these j l
10 to make sure that we understand as much as possible about 11 the operation of the steam and feedwater rupture control j 12 system.
13 So, with that, J. T., do you want to begin with j 14 your specific questions?
15 MR. DEARD: Well, what I would like to do is 16 if we could just have sort of a discussion about it, and I !
I 17 don' t have a lot of specific questions, but what I would 18 like to do, I realize the rupture control system is a very i 19 complex logic system; extremely complex. ,
20 I went through it one time -- went through the j 21 logic diagrams and thought I understood it and made some 22 simplo drawings from it, and from that I wrote a system 23 description on it, and found out later I had made some 24 mistakes. l Aa FMw3 Rworters tn '
25 So, I went through it a nocond time and came L
1-2-Wali e 4 1 up with a different set of simplified charts which is the 2 package that we handed out.
3 And It seems like that since we had to be 4 coming out here anyway, dhat it was a very worthwhile thing 5 to make sure that our understanding of the way the system 6 is designed and functions is technically accurate.
7 So, that is the main thing I would like to e accomplish, and it may be that what we will need to do is 9 take these sketches, have you folks compare them against to the logic diagrams, and what I would really like to do is 11 get some concurrence from you folks that these are technically 12 -accurate.
13 MR. JAIN: You are not looking for the --
14 MR. BEARD: Sir.
15 MR. JAIN: You are not looking for that
- I 16 output at this meeting right now. Go back and compare it --
I-7 MR., BEARD: I would like to get it as close
'18 as we can.
19 MR. JAIN: Okay. '
20 MR. BEARD: In other words, if we have to lay 21 out a drawing and say does this box match that box, then 22 maybe that is what we need to do.
23 I had envisioned more of a working meeting, 24 not an administrative-type meeting.
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25 And then, I think we had indicated to Bill Rolls
- l-3-W31 5 1 that af ter we feel like we have established a common 2 understanding of the technical design and operation then 3 if we wanted to discuss a little about the action plan 4 associated with the steam feed rupture control system, then 5 we could do that, and we previously indicated that we didn' t 6 think we had any comments that would force changes in the 7 document.
8 So, it would be more of an understanding of the 9 problems that may have been experienced during the event 10 as contrasted to the place where we might want to talk about Il change s .
12 'oes anybody have any questions before we start 13 piling throu . this?
l 14 (No response.) l 15 MR. !!ELLE: J. T., would it be appropriate I
16 for you to kind of explain and lead the people through what 17 you have here, and maybe you can get some early feedback l l
18 if they do agree with what you have on here, and make it the 19 working session you worked out.
20 MR. DEAllD That is what I would prefer, is f
\
21 the technique which I use frequently, is if I can feedback l 22 to you the way I think it is designed and operates, if you 23 people would be nico enough to correct me if I make a 24 mistake, then I get a positive feedback, in that sense, Am FWad Reorprs,1w.
25 rather than you telling me again how it operates.
1-4-Wal 6 1 One of the reasons that these cartoons were 2
developed is that not only is the system complex, but the 3 -- for the purposes of our team report, we need a simplier 4 versions, and also for our own understanding.
5 okay. The first picture here, labeled 6 Figure 1, is a sort of pictorial schematic representation 7 that I got from some of the material you had given earlier, 8 which shows the two actuation channels, each of which 9 consisting of two logic channels, and the most important 10 thing that comes out of this is that the concept of a full 11 trip, or full actuation of one channel, would be at the 12 output which is where two logic channels have tripped and 13 gone through some And Logic -type configuration, and then 14 to an output.
15 That would be what I think is a full trip. i i
I 16 And then the partial trip would be when you are upstream of 17 the And gate, and one logic channel has tripped, but the ,
f 18 other has not. !
l 19 MR. JAIN: We call it a half trip. I 20 MR. BEARD: Italf trip. j 21 MR. ROSSI: Now, when you are talking about 22 redundancy and separation and that kind of thing, I gather 23 that your separation is between the two actuation logics, 24 is that correct?
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25 MR. JAIN: There is also a separation betvoen
l-5-Wal 7 1 the two logic halfs of an actuation channel.
2 MR. ROSSI: So the wiring and that sort of 3 thing is actually separated -- I mean, a physical separation 4 as well as electrical separation between the logic channels?
5 MR. JAIN: Within the cabinet.
6 MR. ROSSI: Within the cabinet. Okay.
7 MR. BEARD : Along that same line, each of these 8 logic channels receive certain types of signal inputs. Was 9 it intended that those signals be separated from each other?
10 Electrically separate?
11 MR. JAIN: Channel inputs to the logic channels.
12 MR. ROSSI: Let me say something. Everybody 13 is going to have to make a special effort to speak up, 14 because I know that the people that are taking the record 15 are having difficultyhearing,sopleasespeakupasclearlyl 16 as you can so that they can hear you.
l 17 If you have a problem hearing anything, just l 18 interrupt. Okay. Go ahead. l i
19 MR. BEARD: Okay. Another point that I think ;
l 20 should be made clear on this first cartoon is that the And i 21 configuration, where the two logic channels are joined j 22 together to make an actuation channel, I believe is done with 23 field wiring at the actuated equipment, and not really a 24 part of that cabinet called the S-Sparse?
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: That is correct.
f 1-6-WJ1 8 f 1 MR. BEARD: While we are on it, it is 2 convenient, we had indicated to Bill Rolls that we wanted 3 to look at three specific pieces of actuated equipment. IIe 4 said he was going to have somebody prepared with drawings, 5 and prepared to discuss that.
6 MR. JAIN: I have those drawings here.
7 MR . BEARD : I don't want to go into it right 8 this minute, but that is so that we can understand how this 9 And function really works.
10 f tR. BELL: This relay actuation that is local 11 here, is that component actuation? Those relays actuate 12 components?
13 MR. JAIN: Yes. These relays have contacts 14 wired out into the field for a particular -- for example, 15 an MOV.
16 MR. BELL: So we really have an output here 17 then?
18 MR. JAIN: Right. Correct. l 19 MR. BELL: This output that is shown at the 1 20 bottom of the End Gate.
21 MR. JAIN: That is the actual actuation.
22 MR. BELL: This cabinet should end up here.
23 MR. BEARD: Correct me if I am wrong --
24 MR. STALTER This cabinet should end up here, sa vedoc Reponen. enc.
25 MR. JAIN: Right.
l W31 9 e
1 MR. STALTER: And this should be taken outside 2 the cabinet.
3 MR. DEARD: That is why I tried to show with 4 the dotted line that the And function is made up of field 5 wiring, it is not part of the cabinet.
6 MR. ROSSI: Now, on your logic channels, the 7 inputs into the logic channel are completely redundant. Are 8 those logic channels all identical to one another, or are 9 there differences between logic channels 1, 2, 3, and 4?
10 MR. JAIN: The logic modules, per se, are 11 identical. Tne things that are dif ferent are the actual 12 equipment.
13 For example, we have some equipment which are 14 actuated at half trip. A separation exists and the 15 channelization exists where half a channel -- an actuation 16 in Channel 1, for example, will trip the associated half 17 channel equipment in loop 1.
18 Similarly, a half channel in loop -- in 19 actuation channel 2 would actuate the associated trip in 20 loop 2.
21 MR. ROSSI: Now, is that equipment where that 22 is done safety-related equipment also?
23 MR. JAIN: Only half trip equipment that we have 24 is the atmospheric vent valves, the MSIV bypass valves, and Am-Fede,el Reporters, Inc.
25 also the main steam line warm up drain lines.
L_
1-8-W21 10 1 MR. BEARD: Okay. There is a table that is the 2 next page, which probably is covering that very subject, too.
3 Maybe we should turn to that.
4 The next two pages in the handout are sheets 1 5 and 2 of Tables we obtained f rom you folks, which we believe 6 to be the outputs of these things.
7 Page 1 is for actuation channel number 1, and 8 page 2 is actuation channel number 2, and I call your 9 attention on page 2, in the third column on the right half, 10 there is an entry called half-trip. Okay?
11 Now, I don' t know whether there is a typo in 12 that half-trip word should be on the first page also. I think 13 that is correct. That that was a typo.
14 So, there are half-trip outputs from both 15 actuation channels.
16 And they seem to go to -- on three dif ferent 17 parameters, and they actuated it locks like four dif ferent i
18 pieces of equipment, which was what we were talking about 19 a second ago. See where we are?
20 What was the fourth piece?
21 MR. JAIN: The blow down^ lines, which is listed 22 as MS Gil and 603 on the other page.
23 MR. ROSSI: Now, where these things are 24 indicated as being actuated by half-trips, it seems to me Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 that it should indicate which logic channel does that. Isn't
i 11 l-9-WOl I that another piece of information --
2 MR. BEARD: That is one of the things I wanted 3 to make sure we understood.
4 As I understand it, either logic channel within 5 an actuation channel can cause this to happen?
6 MR. JAIN: Exactly.
7 MR. BEARD: So it is an 'or' situation?
8 MR. JAIN: It is an 'or' for a full trip it is 9 an, 'and.'
10 MR. BELL : So on page 1, this wo'11d be 1 or 37 il MR. JAIN: That is correct.
12 End 1. 13 SW fols.
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ace-FederO Reporters, Inc.
25
12
- 2-1-SueWalshi MR. BELL: And on Page 2 it would be two or four?
2 MR. JAIN: Correct.
3 MR. BEARD: And the rest of the outputs are Ands?
4 MR. STALTER: I don't know how you are going to 5 handle that on this diagram on the front, because there are 6 some Ors coming out of here.
7 MR. BEARD: WeII, I hoped to have some text 8 material that will point that the majority of the outputs are 9 Anded at the end but there are a few exceptions which is the i
10 area we are talking about now and -- l II MR. STALTER: Right.
12 MR. BEARD: -- maybe not clutter up the figure.
13 One of the things that I noticed and that I wanted Id to ask you about is that in these two tables, if you look at 15 Table Number 1, for example, it appears to me that the vast l 16 majority of the output signals from actuation of Channel 1 are I7 associated with reactor coolant loop Number 1, Steam Loop 18 Number 1, Eor example, in the middle column there it says l
39 "MSIV BYPASS 1, MS DRAIN, MSIV #1, MSIV #2." Now, the MSIVs !
l, 20 is one area that is unique from the point I was making. i k
2I But the vast majority of this equipment seems to 22 be related to Loop 1. So, actuation channel outputs seem --
23 seem to be oriented toward Loop 1; similarly, actuation of 24 Channel 2 outputs are oriented toward Loop 2.
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25 MR. JAIN: Okay. The only difference are in terms
13 4
62-2-SueWalsh 1 of th'e MSIV is the startup control valve.
2 MR. BEARD: The only differences are MSIV and 3 startup control' valve?
4 MR. JAIN: Let me take -- there is another dirferenc a ,
5 as'for.the'feedwater control valves.
6 MR. BEARD: So, that's unique. The MSIVs are 7 unique. And where on the table is the other one you are 8 talking about?
9 ;MR. JAIN: SP-6A. I think it is labeled wrong there.
10 It should be' main-feedwater control valve'.
I II MR. BEARD: SP-6A is the startup valve. Are you 12 on Page 1 or 27 13 MR.'JAIN: Page 1.
Id MR. STALTER: SP-6A is the main feedwater --
i 15 MR. BEARD: This says main feedwater block valve.
16 MR. JAIN: There is something wrong with this j
17 ' table here. SP-6A on the very lef t should be main feedwater
]
. 18 control valve.
I' MR. STALTER: Right. On the left. The center 20 column is correct.
2I MR. JAIN: The center column is okay.
22 MR. BELL: In summary then steam isolation and ,
23 feed isolation are redundant.
24 MR. JAIN: We have single failure protection, Am+mes nowwn, w. ;
25
.different channels closing, isolating feedwater lines as well f
, . , . , . , , _ - , - . , . - - , ,n, - a ,, -, ,,,a ,a nn , ,
I 14
- 2-3-SueWalsh) as main steam lines.
2 MR. BELL: That's what I was asking. The main feed-3 water receives Channel 1 and 2 signals and main steam isolation 4 receives Channel 1 and 2. l 5 MR. JAIN: You might want to qualify that some-6 w hat, because not all the valves on the foodwater would get 7 isolated,would.get signals from both channels. For example, 8 the main feedwater block valve on Number 1 loop would get 9 signal only from Channel 1.
10 MR. BELL: Okay.
11 MR. BEARD: Would that be Valve FW-780 that's the 12 main feedwater block valve?
13 MR. TAIN: Correct.
14 MR. BEARD: I think there is a typo there. It 15 should be an "M" instead of an "N" --
l I6 MR. JAIN: Okay.
17 MR. BEARD: -- in the first column there. And it 18 looks to be correct in the other one.
19 Well, it looks like Channel 1 gets the main feed-20 water block valve and control valve and startup valve; that's 21 the three valves for isolation. What I was thinking is, we 22 mentioned that actuation of Channel I seems to get the start-23 up control valve --
24 MR. JAIN: Right.
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29 MR. BEARD: -- the main feodwater block and main
I 15
- 2-4-SueWalsh I feedwater control.
2 MR. JAIN: Correct.
'3
5 MR. BEARD: No, it -- the control valve is for 6 the alternate loop, the opposite loop. In other words, 7 actuation of Channel 1 will get the main control valve and
- 8 its. associated loop but the block valve in the opposite loop.
9 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So that --
10 MR. BEARD: Is that correct?
11 MR. JAIN: The control valve'--
i 12 MR. BEARD: I got it backwards.
13 MR. JAIN: The control valve is the one that is 14 getting signals'from the opposite channel. !
15 MR. BEARD: Right.-
I' MR. JAIN: Everything else for_ the feedwater side 17 is from the respective channel, the respective loop.
18 MR.-ROSSI: Okay. And that's the way you meet I'
the signal failure criterien for feedwater isolation?
- MR. JATN: Correct.
2I MR. ROSSI: _Either the block valve closing or 22 the control valve closing isolates feedwater, and that's true.
- 23 The' block : valve.will isolate _ the startup feed flow also.
24 MR. BEARD: No, I don't think that's correct.
m asponm, Inc.
25 I think the' block valve'is_within the loop-for the main control
16 i
- 2-5-SueWalshi valve and not common to both.
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Then, how do you get the single 3 failure for isolation for closing the startup valve?
4 MR. JAIN: The startup valve is closed by both 3 channels, 1 and 2.
6 MR. ROSSI: But there is only one valve there.
7 MR. JAIN: That is correct.
8 MR. ROSSI: And what if it fails to close, then 9 what's the backup to that?
10 MR. JAIN: -Well, you still have the other generator II that would be isolated.
II MR. BEARD: Is it part of the safety function for 13 the plant design that for some accident or accidents that Id you have to isolate both steam generators, at least temporarily 15 if not permanently?
E MR. JAIN: We only -- to answer that question, no.
II The -- you would only want to isolate one generator at a 18 time given a main steamline break from that accident.
O So, you' don't need to isolate both generators at 20 a time for a design basis. accident.
21 MR. BEARD: Not even temporarily?
22 MR. JAIN: I don' t recall of any Chapter 15 analysis, 23 which requires isolation of both generators.
24 MR. ROSSI: I think you worded the question to get Ase seene nepo,=., inc.
25 I-think the answer is correct, that you've only
.tlutt answer.
l 17
- 2-6-SueWalsh 1 got to isolate one steam generator for any break. But your 2 real question that you are asking I believe that you want to 3 know the answer to is, aren't there steamline breaks in 4 various-locations which will temporarily result in the isola-5 tion of both steam generators until the good steam generator 6 pressure recovers.
7 MR. JAIN: Yes, that is correct.
8 MR. ROSSI: And --
9 MR. JAIN: It's plausible that that would occur.
10 MR. ROSSI: And that's how you get them both II isolated. Going back to one steam generator that has a 12 problem, let's assume I got a steamline break in one of the 13 two steam generators, I want to isolate the feedwater to I4 that steam generator.
15 I
MR. JAIN: Correct.
30
, MR. ROSSI: Okay. And that requires closing the 17 startup control valve --
l 2
14B MR.- JAIN:- Correct.
M MR. ROSSI: -- closing the main feedwater control 20 valve --
21 MR. JAIN: Right.
- 27 MR. ROSSI: -- - closing the block valve .
-23 MR. JAIN: Correct.
24 MR. ROSSI: And what now is the redundancy to As.4 esses nope,es,.. lac.
25 the closure of the startup valve?
+
18
- 2-7-SueWalsh 1 MR. BELL: There is another valve that it's closed 2 signal, and that's the main feedwater stop valve.
3 MR. JAIN: That's the thing that I was going to 4 look at here. Feedwater 601 and 612 are the ones that are 5 closed. I don't see that in here for some reason.
6 MR. BEARD: Well, where should they be?
7 MR. JAIN: Feedwater 601 -- I don't remember the 8 numbers right, but one is Loop 1 and the other is Loop 2 and 9 they are all channelized.
10 MR. BEARD: Feedwater 601 and what?
II MR. JAIN: Okay. 601 appears to be the main feed-12 water stop valve, Number 2, which is listed on Sheet 2 of 2 13 here. Somehow it's not listed on -- in the first page.
14 MR. BEARD: It should be -- all right, what's the 15 one that should be on the first page?
I I6 MR. JAIN: Feedwater 612. !
17 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Now, that's a very important ;
i 18 point in meeting single failure for isolation of feedwater.
I9 I assume that this stop valve -- correct me if I'm wrong -- l 20 gets the closure signal fron one actuation signal --
21 MR. JAIN: That's correct.
22 MR. ROSSI: -- and the control valves, both the 23 startup feedwater control valve and the main feedwater control 24 yalve, get an actuation signal from the other actuations?
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
MR. JAIN: That's correct. The startup feed getting
19
- 2-8-SueWalsh1 from both in this case.
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
3 MR. BELL: Okay. So, the main feedwater block 4 and the main feedwater control valve, if we are talking about
$ Number 1 steam generator, would get a signal from which channel 6 now?
7 MR. JAIN: Okay. Let me write that down here.
8 Okay.. The startup control valve will be one or two. Okay.
9 The control valve goes to the opposite channel.
10 MR. BELL: So, that would be, in my case, where
- 11 I've got Number 1-0TSG that would be Number 2 --
12 MR. JAIN: The block valve.will be Number 1 and the 13 stop valve will be 1.
14 MR. BELL: Okay. So, now if we had a failure -- if 15 we had a problem in Number 1-OTSG, it's the ruptured steam 16 generator --
17 MR. JAIN: Correct.
18 MR. BELL: -- and let's assume that Channel 2 II S PARCE fails to function, then Number 1-OTSG would<be isolated 20 by the closure of the stop valve --
2I MR. JAIN: That's one, right.
22 MR. BELL: -- by the closure of the startup valve 23 from Channel 1 --
24 MR. JAIN: Correct.
AmW Repo,ws, Inc.
25 MR. BELL: -- and by the closure of the main feed
20 l62-9-SueWalsh 1~ block' valve from Channel 1.
2 MR. JAIN: Correct. >
3 MR. BELL: Okay. Let's take the same steam 4 generator with - a failure of S FARCE Channel 1 now -- !
5 MR. JAIN: Uh-h uh' .
6 ' MR.-BELL: -- and.the way the steam generator is 7 isolated. in this case is the closure of the startup valve --
8 MR. JAIN: Uh-huh.
9 MR. BELL: -- and the closure of the control valve.
10 ' MR. JAIN: Correct.
11 MR. ROSSI:- Now, both of your actuation channels 12 will' detect that steam generator Number 1 in this case has 13 ' had a break?
14 MR.'JAIN: -If.you had a generator with low pressure
- 15 condition it would go --
1 16 MR. ROSSI: -To both actuation channels?
17 MR. JAIN:. Well, at'a level or pressure transmitters I ' I8 T which are channelized, 'okay, channel -- for: example, steam .'
l' l:
-generator 1, ifEit had low pressure all the core' channel
- 20
~ pressure transmitters or pressure-switches are going to. send 21 the trip signals,. meaning-that all four channels on that 22 generator are. going toitrip on low pressure.
- 23 So,~to' answer that question; both actuation -
I
. 24 channels-will sense that trip signal.
> Ae+mww memwn. im:. t
- 1. -
25 MR..ROSSI:' Okay. Now, from that; description.-- and 1
I 4
w- e <v-v e t'-m' +*w't = e~e-+ r > +- vw e %,-- -~'e-~ m+m* w-*e---
21
- 2-10-SueWalsh let me ask both Larry and J.T. , from that description, assum-2 ing it's correct, it sounds like the single failure criterion 3
is met on the feedwater end with a single failure.
' MR . : BEARD: Feedwater isolation.
MR. ROSSI: Or for isolation. So, regardless of 6
which steam' generator I have a break in I will isolate feed-7 water to that steam generator redundantly.
MR. BELL: If you take credit for control grade 9 .
equipment.
10 MR. ROSSI: Thecontrolgradeequipmentbeingthe--l 11 MR. BELL: The startup control valve and the 12 feed drain ~ valve. Those are control-grade equipment. Those 13 aren't safety grade pieces of equipment.
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. What about the block valve?
15 Is it safety grade?
16 MR. JAIN: The 601 and 612.are safety grade.
17 MR. ROSSI: They~are the only two, and that's one 18 per loop?
-MR. BELL: 'The stop valve is safety grade but 20 not the block valve.
21 MR. JAIN: That's what I mean, 601 and 612.
22 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
23 MR. BELL: But don't you call that the stop valve 24
- %, i,,c, -not the block valve?
- 25 i MR. JAIN: Right. They.use different. terminology.
. 22
' #2-ll-SueWalshi MR. STALTER: The main feedwater block valve 2 that isolates the control valve is not safety grade.
3 MR. BEARD: Okay. So that out of these four valves 4
4 that we have been talking about, there are three of them that are 5 not safety grade and one that is?
6 MR. JAIN: That's correct.
[END #2 7
!Simons flws-8 1 9 10 11 12 12 M
15 16 17 le s
20 4 21 22 23 24 Aeronamn neoenen, sec.
25
23 Sim 3-1 MR. BEARD: But the four all do get various signals.
1 2 MR. ROSSI: And there is enough redundancy there to 3 meet the signals ---
4 MR. BEARD: It sounds like from what they are 5 saying that that is probably the case.
6 The point that I really wanted to make was that it 7 seems like that maybe feedwater -- well, I guess the point 8 that I wanted to make is that if you just look at the table, 9 it appears as though the vast preponderance of the actuated 10 equipment associated with actuation channel one is related 11 to loop one and vice versa.
12 . MR. ROSSI But they do have this cross-over where 13 it is required to do things redundantly.
14 MR..JAIN: Cross-overs'again would be associated 15 with loop one equipment. For example 106-A is a cross-pver 16 valve that is associated with the FBT-1, which is loop one 17 obviously. So it will be actuated by channel one.
18 MR. ROSSI: Okay. While we are on this single 19 failure thing of valves, unless somebody has some more 20 questions on the feedwater valves in isolation, I would like 21 to clear.steamline isolation.
22 MR. BEARD: Yes, let's go to the main steam system.
23 We have done the main feed and let's go to the main steam.
24 MR. ROSSI: Now in the main steam system, assuming
, ' Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 again, I have a break, a steamline break, can you explain f
L_
'24 l
Sinf3-2' l1 what is. required for the isolation of the good steam-generator 2 from the break and how you meet single failure and redundancy 3 for that?
4 MR. JAIN: The familiar equipment to be isolated 5 on the1 steam side is~obviously the MSIV, including the 6 atmospheric vent . valve, the-MSIV by-pass valve, the main 7 steamline drain valve and the steam generator blow-down valves, 8 MR. ROSSI:,-And'that is all for the good steam 9 generator now~that you have to do that regularly?
10 MR.. JAIN:s Nell, under low-pressure condition, le t ' s 11 say steam generator one has a low-pressure condition, it will (isolate that particular .s' eam generatorfby -- _let me break 12 t 13 this up a little bit. Isolation occurs on both loops, main
's team ' isola tio/ ,n-occurs on b"oth'- loops.
14 Isolation of aux feed-15 water occurs -cn1 the loop which is bad.
16 MR. ROSSI= Okay. Tell us about the steamlines 17 first.
18 MR. JAIN:~ Okay. So_for a low-steam pressure 19 condition on'No. 1 generator, for example, you would isolate 20 both MSIVs, you -would isolate all the other atmospheric vent:
4 21 valves, the MSIV by-pass' valve, the main steamline drain valven 22 and the blow-down valves.
- 23 MR. ROSSI: For both-steam generators?
24 MR.'JA1N: Both steam generators.
Ac) Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
- 3
- . r 25
. - i
- Sim'3-3[ j MR 'JAIN
- -Mainly because you have'got four 2
. channel pressure switches,..which are sensing the same low-1-
3 pressure condition:and transmitting it to both actuation 4 counts. LThat-is the: isolation en the steam side. Now it does . other. kinds: of.. things for the aux feedwater side, t 5
1UR. BEARD:- This system is very complex, and I
. 6
.can't. handle; jumping from system to system.
' ~
We are talking
-7 about main . steam, . and let's >-just stay e there.
8 9
Let me see if I can tell you whatJI think I heard.
10 I:think I. heard you'sayfthat if either steam generator has qi ' low pressure, fit is. sensed by each of the'four? logic channels j '. .. . , , - ,
4 12 cand the-outputs'of-the various actuation channels are-such l.
i' -13 thatlyou will(get.MSIV;closurecon both steam generators,
- 14 vent valve closure andrallzthe other things.
15 What about the turbine trip valves, the stop._ valves?
i 16 MR. JAIN:- SFRCS1also sends a~ turbine trip signal j7 .on a low-pressure condition.
1
- 18 MR. BEARD: Now are the turbine. trip valves down--
P
~
19 . stream of a header that connects the steam generators or 'are 20 -they=in line? .
21 MR. JAIN: They are. connected together.
22' MR. BEARD:; But if-I" traced out one steam--loop, I
~ '23 'would.got throughifrom say OTSG No. 1, fits MSIV, thentcome-4 _
. 24 .to a header;and.then ---
- Acc>F.d.rst m.por,.<s,' lac.
'.25 MR.J.STALTER: "
Well, you would come to a-stop valve,
~
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26 Sim 3-4; El the turbine stop valve first.
. 2 MR. JAIN: 'Two stop. valves.
, -3 MR. BEARD: -Well, that is what I am trying to 3
-4 understand, is the header ---
5 1 MR'. STALTER: And then the header and then the 6 Leontrol valves.
9
.7 MR. BEARD- So I would get a turbine stop and
~
13 then a header.
9 ' MR . STALTER:- The turbine stop valves are activated.
10 . in MSIV, theni the: header and then they are connected together
^
11 and' then ---
12 MR. BELI.: - At the turbine steam chest.
13 [MR..STALTER:' Right',- and~then it goes through the 14 control-valves, the turbine control. valves.
15 MR. JAIN: One thing we missed there is the NRV.
16 MR. STALTER:. Yes, there'is a non-return valve in 17 there, too.
18 . MR. ROSSI! ,Where is the none-return valve located 19 with respect to the MSIV?
20 MR. JAIN: LD ownst'eam r of the~MSIV and' upstream of th e 21 stop valves.
1 22 MR. BEARD: Now is the non-return. valve a check
~23 valve.or is.it an operating valve?
24 MR. STALTER: A check valve.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
. 25 MR. BEARD: It-is just a. check valve. It doesn't
27 Sim 3 :.1 really have any actuation other than the pressure?
2 - MR. STALTER: Right.
3 MR. BEARD: On the diagram there was a little
- 4 bonnet shown on it like-it was air. operated.
-5 MR. JAIN: It is air operated for startup purposes,
'6 but you might want . to hold it. open, the steam flow is not 7 enough to keep it open'.'
! 8 EMR.-BEARD: .Okay. But as far as we are concerned.
9 for isolation purposes', it is just a simple check valve?
10 MR. JAIN: Just a check valve.
11 , , __ MR. STALTER: .Right, justia check valve.
4 12 MR. BEARD: Now as I understand it, you were saying 13 that- each' actuation channsi- will c' lose the MSIVs and turbine 14 stops; is.that correct?
15 MR. JAIN: Correct.
16 MR. BEARD: Now what in your accident analysis is 17 taken credit for to give you single failure type valve
- 18 . protection for-main steam' isolation?
19 MR. JAIN: I don't know the --~
20 'MR. ROSSI: Well,-let me go back and clarify a 21 -point because there is something that was said that I don't 22 understand. /
23' Did.you say;that either actuation channel one or 24 ' actuation channel'2, either one of them would close both Ace-Fedwol Reportws, Inc.
25 MSIVs?
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4s 28
'Sim3-6 { MR. JAIN: Correct.
2 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Now are we'in agreement that that 3 really occurs? -
4 MR. BEARD: No.
5 MR. ROSSI: Okay. Why don't one of you straighten 6 that .out before you go any furttier.
.7 MR. BEARD: 'bne'of the reasons that we asked, and
~
8 ' remember earlier I said we want to talk about, we selected L9 three pieces, and one'of.them was tho'MSIVs. My understanding ,
10 and I will just throw that out' add get it all {out on the table
.~, .
11 .too,.is th'at as'lar a's.the steam fbed rupture' control system l'2 -goes, and.there'is..a separate part.for the safety' feature's 13 actuation side, but as far as thb: rupture control system, 14 there-are three solenoids involved for each MSIV, and that 15 all three:have to be de-energized-in order to have the valve
.16 go closed, and'that the signals to those solenoids are.a 17 mixture.between actuation channel A and., actuation channel B 11 8 in all cases.
19 MR. JAIN:4 ;I think that is true, but I don't recall 20 _if'that ---
.21 MR.fBEARD:. If'tha't :is the case, it would appear.-
~
n 22 .that if all~three-have to be de-energized, and the three 23 ' signals driving'those solenoids are a mixture ---
L l24 MR. JAIN: 'Let.me-clarify that-somewhat. There
[ Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
~
25 are1three solenoids, and we call then C, D and.E solenoids.
.im._-. A
. .. + .
N
, 29
- - J Sim 3-- 7,_. .j MR. BEARD: C, D'and E solenoids?
~
2 MR. JAIN: -Right. These are part of five, which 3 are A, B,~C, D and E. C andED are coupled together.
4 MR.' BEARD: Coupled how,Lelectrically or pneu-i 5 maticallyfor how?- l 6 MRJAIN:.
. They work in unison. I don't know how 7 exactly they are coupled. .,
, 8
.MR. STALTER:e I.am not sure, but^they do work I
~
9 together.
5 .
10 - - - MR. BEARD:
An.either.of then? ,
{j MR. STALTER: lThey jus t" act as one. ' If one trips, 12 the other" trip's..
t' s l i 13 MR. BEARD: All right. They act as one. We can 14 get into the details 11ater, butfI am trying the gist of it, J-
- j$ which is-that.there are three'but C and D act-as one?
4 16 MR. JAIN: Correc t .-
j 17 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now=go on.
1 . -
- 18 MR.-JAIN: So" essentially you have got'two sets, 19 if you will, ?C-D and'E, two pairs. ,
4 20 MR. BEARD: .So you end'up.with C-D and E?
1
-gj .MR.:JAIN:: Right.
4 22 MR. BEARD: Now my understanding is, andII am not 23 sure-how it relates to the'C-D and.E_part, but up to three
- 2.1 solenoids, there are signals from both A & B actuation
_ AoFabol %wom, Inc ,
25 channels involved, and because of that', and that is the v
4 w
i ,
30
~
L3-8 1 reason we are. here < today, my understanding was that it would 2 require the trip of actuation channel A and the trip of 3 actuation' channel B to cause either MSIV to close.
4 MR. JAIN: That is not true. We could go through 5 the drawings.and make sure.that that is not the case.
6 MR.- BEARD:. Well, that is a separate thing that we 7 .had on t~ne agenda-later. So why don't we just.stop at that 8 point, that'.there is"this misunderstanding that we need 9 to get clarified.
~
10 MR. ROSSIs I Your statement isithat either actuation 11 channel A or actuation channel B will close both.MSIVs on 12 / low steam gerierator dressure in either steam generator?
13 MR. JAIN: Right.
14 MR..ROSSI: Okay.- And that we can verify from 15 ' drawings later.
16 .MR. BEARD: Is it that either will close both?
17 MR.-JAIN: .Any actuation channel, either one or 18 two,.will close both MSIVs.
19 MR.' BEARD: We can come bcck to.that later.
20 MR. STALTER: We proved that in surveillance 21 testing.
22 MR. JAIN: Yes.
-23 MR. ROSSI: I beg your pardon. Could you speak 24 up?
Ac} Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. STALTER:
~
We proved that in surveillance
31 Sim 3-9L 1 testing that' that happened.
1! MR. JAIN: That.is the way they are designed.
3 MR. BEARD: Okay. Why don' t we just put that on 4 the table and accept the. statement for the time being and 5 we can come-back to the details of it later, if that is all 6 right with everybody.
17 At any rate, getting back.to the cartoons, and 8 these other' questions are: going to come up later, I think we 9 ha've probably.said.enough;about th'e two charts'heae or tables 10 about- what the actuation' signals 'are. The third page s.was 11 just for convenience ---
'12 MR. JAIN: .Could I just interrupt for a second?
13 MR. BEARD: Sure.
~
14 MR. JAIN: I have no assurance right now that this
~
15 ' table is complete or correct.because I see lots of typos here 16 and I would like to take the time to go through it with a 17 tfine. tooth comb.
-18 MR. BEARD: Fine. I would appreciate that, and 19 maybe you can get that done sometime before we Icave. I 20 don' t know whether 'it is. today or whenever, but as soon 21 as' practical so that we can really make sure that our 22 understanding is correct.
-23 The third _page, or_the next page after that was a 24 simple sketch showing the aux feedwater_ trains, the stean I
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 ~ side and the water sides,-just for convenience-in reading
ll 32 Sim 3-10 1 the table, and that is not really, I don't think, a part 2 of the discusion.
3 The next page is where we start'to get into a 4 little more detail, and it shows that the interface between 5 the sensing instrument channels and the output relays going
~
6 to the actuated equipment.is depicted, and there is a buffer 7 on the input side and a relay driver type buffer apparently 8 on the output side. And apparently the point here is to 9 provide isolation between a 48 volt system on the input and 10 a 48 volt system on the output with a 15 volt logic system 11 in between.
12 Now if you go back and look at on this cartoon 13 these. input buffers, and I assume that this represents like 14 a typical logic channel, or at least that is what I was led 15 to believe, and the various inputs feed into -- well, there 16 are four signals coming into each -- four types of signals 17 coming into each logic, and the buffers there are actually, 18 as I understand it, some number of buffers are physically 19 on a printed circuit board, and then there are multipe printed 20 circuit boards or multiple modules, if you will.
21 MR. JAIN: I am afraid I can't answer that.
22 MR. STALTER: (Nodding affirmatively.)
23 MR. BEARD: I see there is somebody nodding their 24 head yes.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. STALTER: Yes.
. . _ __ ~ . _ _ . __
4 33
- - Sim 3-11.j 'MR. BEARD
- - My understanding is that if you look.
.2 at thefschematic' drawings, the electrical elementaries, or
. J3~ .
whatever.you want.to call them, that the signal ground common 4 between .theNe buffers are tied together so that within one
.5 logic channel'the signal. grounds on the input buffers I 6 believe1are tied together on'likeJthe 48 volt side, the input 7 side.
8 ..
'Therefore, if that-is true, one would say they
=are not ' totally independent. electrically a'nd/therefore might-
~
9 <
. ~ .
10 .be-susceptible to power supply ~ fluctuations such as'have been 4
11 exPeriencedon.thesafety[$eaturesactuationsystemhereat 12 Jthis plant.u I don' t know to what degree that is the case, 13 -but certainly allJ the necessary ingredients seem to be there.
end Sim 14
' Joe fols 15 16 17 18 19 20 11 22 i
23 y m .-,. im 25 4
i-
l j 4-1-Wal, Joe 34 1 MR. JAIN: One thing you have to keep in mind 2 here, one of these channels is an AC channel. Another half 3 of the actuation channel, AC.
4 MR. BEARD: Right. I am talking about within 5 one logic channel now. I am not talking between logic 6 channels within an actuation channel.
7 MR. JAIN: You can verify it with the drawings.
8 MR. BEARD: I have looked at the drawings, and 9 I believe that is the case. Of course, the purpose of this 10 meeting is to make sure my understanding is technically 11 accurate, so I would like to ask you to do that.
12 MR. ROSSI: I would like to call a short 13 break.
14 MR. BEARD: It is time for a cup of coffee 15 anyway.
16 MR. ROSSI: Why don' t we break for a few 17 minutes.
18 (Short recess taken.) l 19 MR. ROSSI: Why don't we begin again, and 20 J. T., why don't you continue with your questions.
21 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, we can move on to the 22 more interesting aspects of this I think, and let me see if 23 I can characterize the remaining pages in this document. I 24 think there are four of them.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 What I have done at this point in the set of
35 2-W21, J.
]' . ""
I cartoons is to try to focus on the two parts that are 3
.2 related event, n'mely a actuation of the system on steam J
3 generator. low level, and there are two pages associated 4 with that'.
5 And the second part is actuation on low 6 pressure, and there are two pages on that. Now, what I 7 would like to do,.just in terms of overview, is just generally 8 describe these four pages and then we will get into it to some 9 extent.
10 The next page that we get to is the one that 11 shows the inputs from the various steam generator signals on 12 low level. It goes through level instrumentation cabinet and 13 then goes to the output relays and causes certain things to 14 be done. That is a logic diagram, with or gates and in 15 gates and what not, but at the beginning of that there is 16 this thing called the steam generator instrumentation cabinet, 17 and the next page is, I believe, to be a very simple version 18 of what that amounts to, okay?
19 In other words, that is what is just in that 20 sub-component, if you will.
21 MR. JAIN: I would like to clarify here on 22 I these.two pages, that reference is made here only to the
.23 low-level bisfables. You also have high level ~bisfables.
'24 MR. BEARD: I understand that. But they were
- nesmenri, sac.
25 not -involved in this . event, 'therefore I did not focus on them.
L.
t 4-3-Wal,:J.;
36 I MR. JAIN: Okay. What I was alluding to 2 was that they are the same bisfable units contained in one.
3 So the signal' rarely comes out --
4 MR. BEARD: It is a high/ low bisfable rather 5 than a low.
6 1HG JAIN: Correct.
7 MR. BEARD: Okay. Just a quick overview of the 8 last two pages. The next to the last page is a logic-type.
9 diagram ' showing the various pressure inputs and the logic 10 and in the relay-type outputs, and the particular channel 11 that I chose to -do is Logic ~ Channel 2, . which is the first
.12 channel'of Actuation Channel No. 2.
13 Now, one of the reasons for doing this was 14 .when the operator pushed the button, I believe he actuated 15 'this particular logic channel, okay? And we can get into 16 'that. fit is just that there were four of them to pick from, 17 and I just picked that one.
-18 It should be typical of any of the-four, 19 basically, but --
20 MR. JAIN: ' Can 'I clarify that now, or maybe
'21 later?
- 22 MR. BEARD
- Well, hold on for_just a half'a
{. 23 second.- And then the fourth page is an accessory or l .
. r
( 24 Amfederal Reporters, Inc.
auxiliary function related to low -pressure, which . is the 25 ' initiate bypass and block circuitry as I understand it. .
h
l
[ 4-4-Wal,' J. .
37 P
1 ' S o ', just in summary you have got a logic 2 diagram for level, one for pressure, and a couple auxiliaries.
3 Okay? Now,'you wanted to clarify something, 4 didn't'you?~
5 MR. JAIN:- I was going-to mention something 6 about -- you said manual actuation?
7 MR. BEARD: Yes.
'8 MR. JAIN: If you were making reference to the 9 manual actuation that he made-by pushing two buttons, by
-10 pushing those two buttons what he did was to trip Actuation
~11 Channel 1 on steam generato 1 on low pressure, and also
.12 Actuation Channel 2, on steam generator 2 on low pressure.
13 MR. - BEARD : And I believe that is. Logic Channel 14 No. 2.
15 MR. JAIN: I am not clear when you say that is 16 Logic Channel 2.
17 MR. BEARD: Forget what he did on the first i 18 column of the buttons for a moment.
1 19 MR. JAIN: Okay.
2 20 MR. BEARD: Talk about the one in the second 21 column. That is Actuation Channel 2.
~
~22 MR. JAIN: Right.
i 23 MR. BEARD: He pushed the uppermost button in 24 that ~ column of buttons.
, Ac was nepormes, Inc.
! 25 'MR. JAIN: 'Right..
4-5-Wal,.J. 38 1 MR. BEARD: My ' understanding is that simulates 2 .a . manual input for telling that Logic Channel that steam 3 generator 2 has low pressure.
4 MR. JAIN: Telling that Actuation Channel.
5 MR. BEARD: Telling that actuation channel 6 that steam generator 2 has low pressure.
7 MR. JAIN: Correct.
8 MR. BEARD: And those manual input contacts 9 would provide that type of information into Logic Channel 2 10 and; Logic Channel 4.
11 12 MR.'JAIN: Correct.
13 MR. BEARD: So, Logic Channel 2 was primarily 14 involved in this event. That is why I picked it -- it was 15 -- so was four.
16 MR. JAIN: Two and four.
17 MR. BEARD: Yes, but at any rate -- okay.
18 I guess what we would like to do is go through the cartoon 19 here and see if this agrees with your understanding of the 20 way the logics work, and I am back on the first of two 21 pages associated with level, and it shows inputs-from level 22 transmitters, and it gives-various numbers associated with 23 ~ steam generator 1 and number 2, and I don' t know how you l '24 gentlemen perfer to do this, but what I would really like to j 4..wm n pwnn. inc.
25 do is at some point through some process, find out if this t ,
M [
, :4-6-Wal,1J. '
L1 diagram is a reasonable simplification of the way the logic
~
2 in the system works.
3 How would you suggest we do that?
4 MR. JAIN: I would like to take the time to '
5 .sitLdown, maybe alone or maybe with you, and go over our 6 .own drawings to make sure that it is reflected correctly here 7 rather than' sitting in a bigger group.
8 'MR. .ROSSI: I think to do that, that one thing 9 that ought to be -done is that they ought to be given some
. 10 . time to look at it.
11 MR. BEARD: That is fine, that is fine. No 12 problem.
13 MR. ROSSI: - And then when they think that they
' 14 are ready to talk about it, we could reconvene and they could 15 tell us -what their results are. '
l i
16 MR. BEARD: I would just call your attention 17 that this particular cartoon was develop ~ed from Bechtel 18 - Drawing E as in Echo 19.
19 MR. JAIN: E-18.
! 20 MR. BEARD: All right. E-18. I think that is
.21 the.one I used.
.22 Now, let me turn to the second page, having:to l
23 do .with L level . As _ I understand - the system, basically you r
' 24 have . a level transmitter which has the power supply for the
- . Am-Fadoral Reporters, Inc.
25 .
loop. Operate test inputs. And then you have a bisfables i
. . _.m.. . . , . , _ . . . . _ . . . , _ . , . . . ,, . ,,-. , , ,
, !4 ,7-Wal,:J. '40
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! :1 device which will get you at least low level 1 actuation, which 2 consists basically of an amplifier with various input
- 3 adjustments.
4 After the amplifier is a . test trip input, and 5 .then it goes into a normal bias where your trip set point is 6 adjusted, and the outputs are contact of a relay, which when 7 the plant.is normal this contact is closed. This is my 8 understanding.
9 When. there is something abnormal on level, this
-10 contact would open and that constitutes the trip input to the 11 S Farce System.
12 Now, my question is: Back over on the- lef t, 13 this level transmitter that is the input, I was unable- to 14
' determine whether this is a startup range level, operate 15 level, or full range level, or something that is not indicated 16 in the control room whatsoever, and it may be of the same 17 range, okay?
18 MR. JAIN: Le t me - ]UT , SB 9A6 through 9A9 are
-19 the startup range level transmitters that' feed the SFRCS for 20 Steam Generator No. 2.
21
]UT SB 9B6 through 9B9 are the startup ran3 '
22 level t'ransmitters that feed the SFRCS for Steam Generator 1.
23 -They are not indicated in the control room.
24 As.4aswas Reponm, Inc.
MR. BEARD: Not indicated in the control room.
25 MR. JAIN: They are indicated on ' the SGLIC, tdu3
--g g y- T- g i>Vm yF e- , tM- '--? = - '+
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4-8-Wnl, J. 41 t
I steam generator level instrumentation cabinets.
2 MR. BEARD: So, if you go into the control room 3
where it says startup range level, that is from a different 4 but similar transmitter?
5 MR. JAIN: They are from a different model of 6 the same Company's transmitter. Rosemont 1153 that is 7 indicated in the control room, which is Rosemont 1152 that 8 is fed into the SFRCS.
9
.There is also a difference in the calibration 10 ranges of the two. The ones in the control room being zero II to 250 inches, and ones for the SFRCS zero to 388 inches.
12 MR. BEARD: Now, I take the startup range is 13 hot calibrated? Calibrated for hot operating conditions?
I4 MR. STALTER: It is calibrated cold, so it is 15 compensated for hot operating conditions.
16 MR. BEARD: And I guess the set point -- is 17 this where the 26 and a half inches is set for it?
18 MR. JAIN: 9A6,.9A9 --
19 MR. BEARD: The problem I had was lack of 20 information. I didn't have anything that correlated between 21 level transmitter designations, something that would tell me 22 what ranga it is. And the meter back where the racks are 23 indicated zero to four hundred inches, and that just added 24 confusion to the problem. That is why I wanted to get it Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 clarified.
- 4'-9-Wal, J. _42 1 MR. BELL: Only those level transmitters that
~
2 ' supply inputs to the integrated come closest, and are 3 displayed in the main control room?
5 MR. BELL: Yes.
6 MR. JAIN: These --
7 MR. BELL: No. I say in' the control room you 8 have startup level and operating range level and full range 9 level.
10 Only the startup range level and the operating.
11 range level that are displayed in the control room, those are
. 12 the same transmitters that feed the ICS, is that correct? ,
13 MR. JAIN: I didn' t think the startup range 14 indicated in.the control room fed the ICS.
15 MR. . BELL: I told you on low level limits.
16 MR. JAIN: Is that the same one?
17 MR. BELL: No S Farce level instrumentation is 18 available in the main control room.
19 ME. JAIN: That is correct.
20 1MR. STALTER: The level indication is not 1
21 available in the control room.
- 22 MR. BEARD: Again, you will notice at the 23 bottom of the cartoon there is some lists, hopefully more 24 correct, of the -references from which I derived the i ww noo,wn, inc.
25 simplification.
l f
4 _- , - . , - . . . . ._ , . . - - , - .-- . - _ . . - . .
4-10-Wal 43 I
1 Okay. Now, the most interesting one is the 2 logic cartoon for the pressure. Again, I guess the 3 thing I am interested in is some review to determine the i
4 accuracy of this thing, but go back to your earlier statement 5 about the manual actuation, this being Logic Channel 2, you 6 can see over on the left it gets pressure inputs from Steam 7 Generator 2 and Steam Generator 1,'and my assumption is that 8 with the particular button you pushed, this being Actuation 9 Channel 2, Steam Generator 2 low pressure, it basically had 10 the same effect as these two pressure switches tripping low.
11 They are at the top left of this cartoon.
12 Because it would not have effected the input for Steam 13 Generator No. 1 for this actuation channel, correct?
14 Now, that would also mean that in terms of 15 outputs over here, there really -- all the ones that are 16 grouped at the very top right, there is a set of four of 17 them there, and those would all be tripped or actuated 18 because one or the other of the steam generators has low 19 pressure.
20 The middle one there, RCS 202, would be 21 actuated because the manual input did say No. 2 was low.
22 MR. JAIN: Yes.
23 MR. BEARD: The next two, 302 and 902, would 24 not be actuated, because they say that No. 1 is low. And Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 the lower two, RCS 402 and 802, would have been actuated
t f-4-11-Wnl,J. 44 N -$ *
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MR. JAIN: That appears to be correct, t - 3 although I would lik.e to 'have the time to go through it.
4 MR. BEARD: I understand. I just wanted to 5 make sure that generally: that is the kind of way I see it.
6 Okay? Now, what I did -- this may not be in 7 the consolidated form on your drawings, but I tried to shoe 8 that for example if I look at the output labeled RCS 402, 9 there is a verbal description which says start the Number 2 10 aux. feed pump, to -- and'by that I mean to feed -- OTSG No. 1.
11 And the thing I have added is in parenthesis 12 below that, it says open, and gives a valve number.
13 So, I don't think you have got that all on one 14 consolidated list, but I try to show it here.
15 And that is where -- I want to make sure we 16 are right.
17 The point this leaves us at I think right now, 18 is I would like to use this diagram, and presume it is 19 accurate for a moment, if I'may, and say let me postulate 20 . a situation, ar.d I would like to understand how we meet 21 single failure criteria with Freka System with regard to 22 this , okay.
23 Now , the basic thing I would like ' to postulate
~24 . has.to do'with, say, this Logic Channel No. 2 is one of them Asefede,el Repo,sers, Inc.
25 that is actuated; and.like in the event, it was indicated m
6
1 4212-Joe W$1 45 I that steam generator .No. 2 really has the low pressure, 2 not No. 1, and I would like to understand how you get aux 3 feed water to the good steam generator if you assume a 4 single failure in Actuation Channel No. A,-the alternate, 5 Lor opposite, actuation channel.
6 And in~particular, the outputs I guess would 7 . correspond to like RCS-301. If you take RCS 301, I believe,
-8 is the nomenclature for --
9 . MR. JAIN: Channel 1.
10 MR. BEARD: -- Channel 1. And assume that 301, 11 and I guess 303 would correspond to that, wouldn't it, 1 12 something there or upstream of it, is the single failure.
13 So that function doesn't occur,-okay? Now, how can we get 14 flow from aux feed water into the good steam generator?
15 MR. JAIN: Well,-you have got two paths to the 16 steam generator from the aux feed water, initially. One is 17 the respective discharge valve, and the other is the cross-18 over discharge valve.
1 19 MR. ROSSI: There is a sketch. And you have 20 marked this as an exhibit, this handout?
21 REPORTER: :I don't know about the-other reporters, 22 whetherLthey accepted it as an exhibit. Do you wish it 23 accepted now?
24 MR. ROSSI: Just make sure it has been.
Am-Federd Reporwrs, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: You want to hypothesize --
l 1
41 13-Wal,;J. -
1 MR.~ BEARD: You want to hypothesize that steam i 2 generator No. 2 is bad, or broken, if you will, and I want
'3 to hypothesize single failure in the steam feed rupture 4 control system actuation train A, or Channel A, and in 5 . particular a single. failure that would be associated with the 6 outputs labeled RCS-301 and 303.
7 So, basically, that that function doesn' t 8 occur, okay? The point is, that as a single failure, and 9 then show how we can get aux feed water.
10 MR. JAIN: Okay. You realize that is somewhat 11 dif ferent from what actually happened?
12 MR. BEARD: Yes.
13 . MR. JAIN: Okay. Let's say steam generator 14 No. 2 is bad, which means that you will have an Actuation 15 Channel 1 and Actuation Channel 2 on steam generator No. 2, t
16 which will say that that generator is bad. I 17 MR. BEARD: What will be the immediate response 18 to the two actuation channels. What valves would close or 19 open, or whatever?
20 MR. JAIN: Okay.- Feed water would be isolated.
21 : Main steam line would be isolated. That will be the 22 _immediate action.
23 MR. BEARD: 'When you say feed water, do you mean 24 to include main and auxiliary feed water?
, Am-FederJJ Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: Main.
9 a- < ,.--, - ,,n e -
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47 4-14-Joa'W.
1 MR. - BEARD: Will auxiliary feed water be 2 isolated?
-- 3 MR. JA.IN : While that is happening, the 4 auxiliary feed pumps would~be getting started. In this
.5 case, MS 107 -- excuse me. MS 106 is going to open, and 6 also MS'107 A.is going to open, which will start both 7 aux feed pump turbines.
8 At the'same time, NS 107 will receive a-close 2
9 signal, and MS 106 -- excuse me, MS 107 A will receive a 10 close signal.
11 MR. - BEARD : .So that this - alignment. would give 12 you! steam from the first steam generator to both turbines, 13 both aux feed turbines?
14 MR.'JAIN: Correct.
15 MR. BEARD: And it would isolate both aux 16 feed turbines from steam generator .No. 27 17 MR..JAIN: Did I mention the wrong valves here.
t 18 Let me.
19 MR. BELL: Yeah, I think you did. At first you
- 20 said MS 106 would open supply No. 1 turbine, and 107 A would 21 open supply No. 2 turbine.
. 22 MR. JAIN: Correct.
23 MR.-BELL:~ You said that first. But in -- and 24 . I . hope' that is right, because that is how I understood it, Ao..r.en:s n.ponwi, one.
25 and 107.will close, and 106 A will receive a close signal.
l T
1
- > , + - . - . -e,. , , , - -..-.: ,e-- ~ ,4 ,y, ,wn, --,..p.g, - ,,-,,..y-n.
4-15-Wal, J. 48 I MR. JAIN: Correct.
2 MR. BELL: All right. It is normally shut 3 anyhow.
4 MR. JAIN: Yes. But it will receive a close 5 signal.
6 MR. BELL: All right. Now I am squared away.
7 Thank you.
8 MR HELLE: Now, is that all correct with the 9 single failure that has been postulated?
10 MR. BEARD: Now, what will happen with the II initial signal that says one of the steam generators is l
12 bad? l 13 MR. JAIN: Okay. 3870 is going to open. 608 14 is going to receive an open signal, although it is open.
15 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute. This is where the 16 crux of the question comes in. I 17 Initially, will the logic send an open signal 18 to 608 or a close signal? In the first instant? l 19 MR. JAIN: If you only had low pressure condition' 20 in No. 2 generator, 608 would receive an open signal. l l
i 21 MR. BEARD: I believe that is not -- let me say 22 that differently. My understanding of the system design 23 does not agree with that.
24 My understanding is that there is a one out of Am-FMer:3 Rmorters,1w. i 25 four logic, and there is also one that says -- well, my
i 4-16-Wal, J. 49 l 1 understanding is different.
2 I thought that 608 would get a close signal.
3 MR. JAIN: No. 2 low pressure?
4 MR. BEARD: For the case I hypothesized.
5 MR. ROSSI: Was No. 2 had low steam line pressure.
6 That was what you hypothesized. Do you still believe 608 7 gets a closed signal?
8 MR. JAIN: With nothing happening on No. l?
9 MR. BEARD: That is what I want to talk about.
10 MR. JAIN: I believe it would receive an 11 open signal. We could verify that with the drawings. ;
12 MR. BEARD: That, I think, is very important.
13 Like I said, I think we need to let you look at it and see, 14 because if the situation turns out that initially 608 and/or i
15 599 get a close signal, and then subsequently they get an .
16 open signal -- one of them would get an open signal, then i i
l'7 the scenario might be quite different from a different 18 scenario. ,
19 I like that profound statement, that if it is '
20 different, it is different.
21 MR. ROSSI: Even aside from the fact that 608 22 may not go closed if I have low steam line pressure on the 23 steam generator No. 2, there is another question and that 24 is is there not steam line break location which early in the Aca-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 transient would result in low steam line pressure to both
i 4il7--Wal h .' . 50
- l . (1 . steam. generators?
'2 ' MR. JAIN: -
~.Yes.
-3 'MR.'ROSSI: From which 608 and-599 were both 4 closed,.and'then one.'of those-two has'to open.
EndJ4.. 25
.Su;W fols.
.j
- 7 8
9
'10 11 12 13 14
-15
.16 17 18 19
.20 21
' 22 23 24 A m n perwee, inc.
25 i
L
51
- 5-1-SueWalsh MR. BEARD: I guess that's really where I am coming 2 from.
3 MR. ROSSI: And that's the question that we have 4 asked a couple of times. I guess our understanding at this 5 point in time is still that there is a steam line break 6 location somewhere in the piping gear where both 608 and 599 7 will get closed signals because both steam generators will 8 have low pressure.
9 And then one of those steam generators will recover 10 in pressure and either 608 or 599 at that point is expected to 11 be open.
l l
12 MR. JAIN: Correct. l l
13 MR. BEARD: And that's where I'm coming from. i 14 MR. ROSSI: And that's the case that I think we 15 are concerned about. And right now I guess we don't under- j 16 stand -- at least, I don't understand -- whether -- how you 17 meet the single failure criterion for that case. '
18 MR. JAIN: Oh. Is the question that do we or 19 do we not send an open signal; or, is the question how do we l
20 meet the single failure if the valve fails to open? l 21 MR. BEARD: Well, I'm -- let me break it up into 22 little parts. I think Ernie has provided a good clarifica-23 tion of where I'm coming from. And I probably should have ,
24 included that in the hypothesis, because the break location Ace Feder'3 Reporters, Inc.
25 that I'm concerned about I think will cause both the generators I
l 52 l45-2-SueWalsh.1 to' initially go low. . And that was the basis why I was asking 2 about what's the immediate response for the steam feed rupture j 3 control system, because I think. that because the initial low 4 pressure, 608 and.599, will go low, or go closed.
5 MR '. JAIN: Uh-huh.
6 MR. BEARD: Okay. And then the pressure on the 7 good steam generator will recover and with that physical 8 scenario and the single failure that we were talking about, 9 I would like to understand how we get aux feedwater into 10 the good generator.
Il MR. JAIN: Okay.
12 MR. BEARD:. And the central point obviously is 13 what happens in this Valve 608.
14 MR. JAIN: Yeah. Okay. The fivet part of that 15 is that -- and I guess I have to verify that further is 16 that it does receive an open signal. That's-the first part.
17 Now --
18 MR. BEARD: But don't forget that the crux of the I'
concern is that 608 initially would get a closed signal and 20 then subsequently get an open signal.
21 MR. JAIN: Correct.
22 MR. BEARD: So, if you want to verify something, 23 .I would think it might be, does it really get a closed signal 24 initially.
wes res n.po,wr , Inc.
25 Yeah.
MR. ROSSI: I think that's a very important
53
'#5-3-SueWalsh I point that ought to be checked, because we've been told I 2 think in a couple of earlier meetings that that is the case, 3 there is steam line break location where you will get closed 4 signals on both 608 and 599. And one or the other is going 5 to be expected to be open.
6 And if that understanding is correct, we ought to 7 hear arguments as to why it's incorrect. Because that's what 8 we believe --
9 MR. JAIN: Yeah. I don't think anybody here is 10 saying that's incorrect.
1 l
11 MR.ROSSI: -- right now. okay.
l 12 MR. BEARD: No. But I think what I do hear is 13 that you want to check it out.
14 MR. JAIN: I do want to check out the question 15 that you were asking, or you were suggesting, that was not !
16 correct, that if the valve does get an open signal on the i
17 low pressure condition on the opposite generator. l 18 MR. BEARD: Well, let me state the question again.
i 19 When you were going through the scenario of what happens in ,
i 20 response to the low pressure condition that was postulated 21 you went through the steam side of the valves and said what l
22 they would do.
23 Then you went to the water side valves and you 24 said that 3870 would get an open signal, and then you said Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 that 608 would get an open signal.
r 54
- 5-4-SueWalsh 1 MR. JAIN: Right.
2 MR. BEARD: At that time, I stopped --
3 MR. JAIN: Correct.
4 MR. BEARD: -- and said: No, my understanding is --
5 and I will inject -- for certain break locations that 608 will 6 initially get a closed signal and then subsequently get an 7 open signal.
8 MR. JAIN: I agree with you. I was going through 9 a mechanistic steam line break where only Number 2 is going 10 back and nothing else is happening to Number 1.
11 In that case, AF-608, assuming it never went closed, 12 would have received an open signal.
13 MR. BEARD: Well, the case that I would like to 14 hypothesize is the one where because of the break location 15 both generators initially depressurize and then the good one l
16 would repressurize -- f i
17 MR. JAIN: Uh-huh. l 18 MR. BEARD: But if you agree, why don't we.just 19 continue with the discussion and say that 608 initially gets i 20 a closed signal. I believe that you already said that 3870 21 gets an open signal.
22 MR. JAIN: We are paraphrasing here that both 23 generators, at least for awhile, are going below 600 psi which 24 is the set point. Then I would have to change some of the Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 valve lineup on the other side, too.
[
55
- 5-5-SueWalsh 1 MR. BEARD: Okay.
2 MR. JAIN: Do you want to do that?
3 MR. BEARD: Sure. Whatever you think -- I'm trying 4 to understand how the system is designed and works.
5 MR. JAIN: It's a complex kind of scenario and lots 6 of valves have to move from this position to that and then re-7 position once the pressure recovers.
8 MR. BEARD: And I think some of these valves that 9 have to move from one position to another also failed during 10 this event we are looking into, so that's important.
II MR. JAIPI: Okay. Let's go back then and say that 12 you have a break in the Number 2 line which depressurizes l 13 both generators for awhile. Let's just talk that for awhile.
Id In that case, let's see -- all the valves on the 15 steam inlet side to the turbine would receive a closed signal.
16 And that's 106, 107, 1 0 6 .'. , 107-A. All four will receive a 37 closed signal. The MSIVs will be closed, the feedwater line l 18 will be isolated, the main feedwater line.
39 On the discharge, 3869, 3870, 3871, 3872 will all '
f 20 be closed. 599, 608, they will be closed. Now, this is !
I 21 assuming an instantaneous -- a low pressure condition which 22 occurs at the same instant in both generators. Okay.
23 Once, let's say Number 1 recovers back to 600 psig 24 within -- or, say half a minute, that will tell the SFRCS Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 that it has got a good generator which is Number 1. What that
56
.#5-6-SueWalsh I will do is start --
2 MR. STALTER: Where is your postulated break that 3 is causing this low pressure in both steam generators?
4 MR. ROSSI: Well, I will tell you one that I think 5 des right now, and that's the one down near the turbine --
6 MR. STALTER: Okay. Now, if you are doing that, 7 as soon as you close the MSIVs we recover pressure in both 8 steam generators, not just one.
9 So, you were postulating only one recovery but as 10 soon as you close the MSIVs both would recover, thus your i
11 postulated break location. I I2 MR. BEARD: What about if it's an upstream break?
13 Well, let me back up and tell you where we are coming from.
14 The first day we were here, Bill O'Connor explained 15 how the system worked to us. And he said the way to under- l 16 stand it is to postulate a break at a certain location and I7 then see how the system responds.
13 MR. STALTER: Right.
19 MR. BEARD: And the example he picked, I believe, l i
20 was an upstream break which resulted in one steam generator !
l 21 with a break in it. Both steam generators, ae said, initially 22 depressurized; then, subsequent to the closure of the MSIV 23 the good one would repressurize but the bad one would remain 24
' low pressure.
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 That's what we were told. i l
.. , ,. . . . . - . . _ . - _ _ . . _ ~. . -- -
57
' #5-7-SueWalshl HMR. ROSSI: Yeah, let's take a break at the i
}-
2 ' outlet -of one, of the one steam generators at full power.
i 3 Okay.
4 MR. BEARD: So, what we are really saying is an 5 upstream break on Number 2.
6 MR. ROSSI: Yeah.
7 MR. JAIN: Upstream on the MSIV.
! 8 MR. STALTER: Upstream on the MSIV.
9 MR. ROSSI: Yeah, on Number 2 and I'm at full 10 power. So the turbine is still at power.
II j MR. BEARD: Because for the upstream break, Number i
12 2 steam generator will not recover, correct?
I3 MR. STALTER: That's correct.
Id MR.-BEARD: Okay.
15 MR. CHOULES: I'm not sure what would happen if
.16 this would depressurize the turbine.
I I7 MR. ROSSI: I had thought, J.T., that you had 18 - checked the FSAR yesterday on what is shown in there for one i l' of the breaks, and didn't you find one where it went down to 20 2507 I mean, that's the' easiest thing if there is one in 21 the FSAR tnat shows both steam generators going low on 22 j pressure. Then, you know, that's --
23 MR. BEARD: I believe that in your Chapter 15 i
24 analysis, Section 15.4, there is a postulated main steam line
- Aew n porwei,Inc.
25 break that causes both steam generators to go very low in
.. . ~ . . . . . - . . _ . _ _ _ . . . _ _ . - -_ _ . _
58
- 5-8-SueWalsh i pressure, far below the 600 pound set points, something on the 2 order of 250 pounds and then I think that maybe one of them 3 recovers and the other one does not.
4 And that's the kind of situation that we are try-5 ing to hypothesize here. In other words, we -- do you under-6 stand where we are coming from?
7 MR. JAIN: Correct.
8 MR. STALTER: Okay.
9 MR. CHOULES: It seems to me to get the break you 10 are talking about it has got to be. downstream the MSIVs. l l
11 MR. ROSSI: No. I think the one upstream of the l 12 MSIVs where the turbine -- you know, if you have a break up- !
t 13 stream of the MSIV in one steam generator then you lose all 14 the flow to the turbine from that one -- l 15 MR. JAIN: And you also have the MRVs that -- l 16 MR. ROSSI: Then, the other steam generator I 17 believe tries to keep the turbine load up -- ,
18 MR. STALTER: Right. f 19 MR. ROSSI: -- for a number of seconds until the l 20 trip signal is going.
21 MR. BEARD: Yeah. This is the way Mr. O'Connor 22 explained it to us, and this is why we are trying to understand 23 that situation better.
24 MR. ROSSI: I think somebody has gone to get the Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 PSAR.
59
- 5-9-SueWalshi MR. BEARD: Okay.
2 MR. JAIN: So, we are talking about an instantaneous 3 low pressure condition occurring at the same time in both 4 generators; nothing feeds nothing. Everything is isolated 5 unless the pressure recovers.
6 Let's say pressure recovers in Number 1 generator, 7 okay, when the pressure recovers in Number 1 generator it is 8 going to tell theS FARCE that actuation of Channel 1 and 9
actuation of Channel 2 on Number 1 generator are okay, they l 10 aren't tripped on low pressure anymore. You've got two !
I actuation channels on that generator telling the S FARCE that l 1
12 7.m okay. l 13 What that's going to do is, if you want to go I#
through the valves here --
15 l MR. BEARD: Yeah, this is the crucial part of the i 16 scenario.
I7 MR. JAIN: Okay. It is going to -- actuation of I
18 Channel 1 is going to open MS-106 and actuation of Channel 2 f
is goi.ng to open MS-107-A which is going to start aux feed 20 from Turbine Number 1 as well as Number 2.
21 On the feedwater side, actuation of Channel 1 is 22 cping to open AF-3870 and actuation of Channel 2 is going to 23 open AF-3871.
wm n.,o,,,,,, ,
MR. DEARD: Okay.
25 MR. JAIN: So, you've got two paths leading down to L
60
- 5-10-SueWalshi AF-608.
2 MR. BEARD: Right. Now, what happens on 608 3 with the hypothesized single failure that I described?
4 MR. JAIN: The hypothesized single failure of 5 301,303.
6 MR. BEARD: The reason I picked those is obviously 7 that's the output of the frequent system that tells 608 8 to reopen.
9 MR. JAIN: Yeah. I needed to -- I think you are 10 right. I will have to go look at the drawing. I think that --
11 MR. BEARD: Hell, let me refer you back to the j 12 cartoon that I've got on the simplified low pressure. And 13 granted this is subject to verification.
34 But, if you will notico 301 which is the counter-15 part to 302, vice-versa, my information is that that's the l
16 one that provides the signal to open valve 608. And if !
17 that's taken as a failure, 608 never reopens. ;
1 18 MR. JAIN: I believe there are two signals going 19 to it, and that's why we have two starters on that valve. '
20 MR. BEARD: Okay. That's the part we need to under-21 stand.
22 MR. JAIN: We had to put two starters on that 23 basically for single failure restoration, and that's why I 24 want to look at the --
Am Federal Reporters, lac, 25 MR. ROSSI: Is it worthwhile to take a recess now
61
- 5-ll-SueWalshi while you people talk a few minutes on this?
l '
2 MR. JAIN: That's the problem.
3 MR. BEARD: We think that's an area we are in-4 terested in. We are interested in the MSIVs, a valve like i
! 5 608 or 599. And I think we also asked about one other l 6 actuated' piece of equipment.
1
. 7 But I think you understand what we are trying to 1
, 8 learn.
l 9 MR. JAIN: Yeah.
10 MR. BEARD: Ernie, at this point I think we have 1 11 described the cartoons that I sketched up here, and I think
}
- 12 we have probably gone as far as we ought to go -- could go i
i 13 productively as a group -- and I think they understand things.
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay. So, what I would suggest is i
15 that we meet again on this after you have had a chance to j 16 look at what we've said and look at his drawings. And maybe i
j 17 we can do that later this afternoon and try to hold that to
- 18 just telling us, you know, what you found and whether therc HP is any misunderstanding on our part on what the system does.
i 20 MR. BEARD: Now, . there was another piece of this i :
21 meeting where we were going to look at some actuated equip-22 ment, and maybe the best thing to do-in terms of efficiency i
i 23 is if you have those drawings that we can have -- and I mean
! M copies that we can keep, I don't want to get into that game j Assesores neemm, sne.
25 again, but maybe while you are doing your checking we could be i i
l
..n. . -. - , . -w--r-n.,--,---- - - - - - . - -------.-n, - - , , - , - ,,~-,-,----r--.-,<,-,--n,,,,--n, n~- ---~-~~,v-
1 62 It5-12-SueWalshi looking at that and doing a little more of our own thinking. ,
2 That way, when we do get to that discussion it will go very
- a
/' 3 quickly.
4 MR. JAIN: Sounds good.
5 MR. BEARD: ~And, then I guess --
6 MR. GRIME: The action plan as well.
7 MR. BEARD: Did we want to comment on the action 8 plan?
9 MR. ROSSI: I think we ought to discuss that.
10 MR. BEARD: Why don't we defer that until we re-Il convene?
12 MR. ROSSI: Yeah. Now, I think we are to a point 13 where we can finish this meeting and then we can talk about 14 our schedule and what happens next.
15 So, let's complete this one. We will go off the le record now.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay. [
18 (The meeting was recessed at 11:00 a.m., to HP reconvene at 3:10 p.m., this same-day.) ,
20 21 22 23 24 Aeressem mese,m,e,Inc.
25
L 10-2-Wal, J. 63-6 1 (3:10 p.m.)
2 MR. ROSSI: We 'are on the record now.
.3 bm. BEARD: The stenographer said he is going 4 to carry this as a continuation of this morning's meeting, 5 which is' really - apply to the questions we were raising 6 in this~ morning meeting on the steam feed rupture control system.
-7 8 MR. ROSSI: Okay, that is fine.
9 MR. BEARD: So administratively, it will be 10 bound as part of that meeting.
.11 MR. ROSSI: Okay. The other meetings are being 12 bound separately, is that correct?
'13 REPORTER: (Nods affirmatively.)
14 MR. ROSSI: Okay, . that is good.
15 MR. ' BEARD: Okay. I guess the question that 16 . was on the table was that we had postulated a scenario wherein, 17 _ the isolation valve between the steam generators and the r
18 auxiliary feed water, AF 599608, initially were closed by 19 the initial low pressure transient, and a steam line break 20 accident at some location.
21 And then we postulated a single . failure in the 22 steam feed rupture control system, on the opposite train, 23 on the train associated with .the good steam generator, and 24 asked the question: Would that isolation valve get a signal
- 4..Fas i n.po,we., one.
j 25 to reopen?
f-l
h ~10-3-Wnl,:J. -64 1 Is that a ' clear statement of the question?
2 MR.'JAIN:~ Yes.-
3 MR. BEARD: Okay.
4 MR. JAIN: Now, the answer is that we have looked 5 at the USAR analysis, and we have found the scenario to be 6 an actual' scenario- as outlined in the USAR.
.7 But we are presently looking at why that 8 situation is there.
9 tm. BEARD: Okay. Let me interrupt you for a 10 minute.
11 USAR is the Updated Safety Analysis Report for 12 the' facility?
13 End 10. 34 SunW fois.
15 16 17
~18 19 20 21 22 23
'24 Asm-Federd Reportees, Inc.
25
l 65
!#11-1-SueWalsH MR. JAIN: Correct.
2 MR. BEARD: Okay.
3 MR. JAIN: So, we don't have a specific answer as 4 to why do we or don't we meet the single failure criteria.
5 MR. BEARD: Let me ask a more specific question.
l i
6 As far as the signals that come out of the frequent system, 7 the steam feed rupture control system, would a signal go or 8 not go to reopen that valve under that postulated single !
9 failure?
10 MR. JAIN: The signal will go for the valve to i II open.
I2 MR. BEARD: It will get a signal to open?
13 MR. JAIN: Yes.
I4 MR. BEARD: Even with the failure of the output relay 15 30l?
16 MR. JAIN: Oh, excuse me.
17 MR. BEARD: With the single failure, I'm talking 18 about.
I9 MR. JAIN: No, it won't.
20 MR. BEARD: So, for certain single failures within ;
2I the SFRCS, the valve would not get a signal?
22 MR. JAIN: Correct.
l 23 MR. STALTER: There are a number of single failures 24 that could occur.
Ace-Federal Repo,ters, Inc.
25 MR. BEARD: Right. I realize there is more than
. . . . - . . ~ ~-. .- - . . . _ ~ . _ . . . . --
i 66
!#11-2-SueWalshi T
one that could end.up in'the same place.
2 MR. STALTER: Right. The result being that the
- I 3 valve would not go open if the single failure occurred.
4 MR. BEARD: You wouldn't get a single to open.
5 .See, there is a separate question of whether the valve -
) 6 itself could fail.
7 What I'm trying to do is for the moment look at 8 what signals would go to the valve.
9 MR. STALTER: There is a signal failure you could
{
10 have on the steam feedwater rupture control system that 1
II
- could cause it not to go open.- There are failures in the !
i I2 : steam that controls that valve which.could cause it not to !
I3 go open. !
Id MR. BEARD: Okay. All right.- So then I guess I
- 15 the answer to-the question we had-this morning was, yes, I
I6 you could get in some undesirable situation that through l
i I7 some of those failure mechanisms, and the real question is 18 is that acceptable or not acceptable.
I'
! Is that what you are saying?
t l:
20 MR. STALTER: That's correct.
2I MR. ROSSI: While we are discussing the issue, j 22 it indicated that you have also -- and we checked this 23 morning the USAR and there is one of the figures in there i
' 24
> An-reseres neoenere,Inc.
that indicates the pressure in both steam generators goes q 25 down to 250 psi =-- I think they are a little different -- but i
k 67 i
- 11-3-SueWals) why don't -- could we state which figure it is so that'we
! 2
'will have.that in the record?
i
' -MR. JAIN: Figure 15.4.4-7 of the Davis-Besse 3
4 USAR.
MR. BEARD: Okay. You said you found this as l
. 5 I
6 n3 f the scenarios in' Chapter 15. Is there a paragraph j or section number you could refer us to?
7 g MR. JAIN: I think there are several paragraphs
- q. 9 in there that --
10 MR. BEARD: Okay.
[ 11 MR.JAIN: -- talk about the whole scenario. l' 12 MR. BEARD: Okay. Are they.all in Section 15.4?
4 I i 13 MR. JAIN: Correct. l l -
l 14 MR. BEARD: Okay. So, I guess _where we stand, Ernie,(
i at least:as I see it is there are some single failures that f 15 l '
i i 16 are undesirable. And I presume that Toledo Edison is launch- !
4 I I j 17 i ng an investigation into where they want to go from.here or l 18 doing something; I' don't know what it is. .
19 MR. ROSSI:. Well, we just want to collect the l
1 i '
i 20 .information on this. .
- 21 Now, the other one, you had' a question on the MSIVs.I
- 22 Is that one now resolved between you and Toledo Edison?
23 MR. BEARD: We've had some other discussions and i, 24 maybe the best way to handle it is, why don't you tell us what
! A.4.s=w neo nw., sac.
i 25 the answer is if you know just simple, you know, without i
68
'lll-4-SueWalshl dragging out a whole bunch of drawings and see if that agrees 2 with what I've heard. And then we will say it's resolved.
3 MR. ROSSI: Okay.
'4 MR. BEARD: If you have an answer.
5 MR. ROSSI: You have rechecked on the MSIV closure 6 signals as to whether one logic channel will close both of l
7 them?
8 MR. JAIN: I haven't gone back to relook at the 9 drawings. Iwasthinkingthatmaybewewillsitdowntogetherf I i 10 and do that. We could go back and look at it separately, i
II either way.
l I2 MR. BEARD: All right. .So, I guess that question 1
13 is not totally resolved.
f I4 MR. ROSSI: Okay. We were told in the previous 15 meeting with Bill O'Connor that he also believes that one 16 actuation channel closes both valves.
i 37 MR. JAIN:
Correct. ,
- 18 MR.-ROSSI
- That either of the two actuation 19 channels, and that's your belief also. And I think the two .
i 20 of you could meet off the record and just demonstrate that.
21 If it turns out to be something else, then we 22 will come back and discuss it with the stenographer. But if f
23
, ige s just a matter of looking at the drawing, let's just leave i
it at that.
< Am-Fede,el Reporte,s, Inc.
25
] MR. BEARD: I think also it was suggested, Ernie, 4
1
-69
- 11-5-SueWalsk that maybe basically on.a one-on-one situation that we could 2 look at the two simplified logic diagrams against their
-3 . logic drawings, the-former.ones, and discuss that off the 4 record.
.5 MR.-ROSSI: Okay.
6 MR. BEARD: If there were any substantial changes, ,
7 we could talk about it on the record if that were decided to
'8 be necessary. , c
+
9 MR.-ROSSI: 'Okay. And those logic diagrams'are 10 part of the exhibits?
-11 MR. BEARD: In.the. previous record.
I f
12 MR. ROSSI: Right.- Is there anything else we need [
t 13 to talk about here?
14 MR. BEARD: I think that's.it. . Did you remember -
15 anything else that we need to talk about?
j 16 MR. STALTER: No, we didn't. l l
17 MR. ROSSI: Okay. l i
18 MR. JAIN: -When would you like to do that?
19 MR. ROSSI: Let's.end this meeting-now at this ! -
l 1
20 point. I think we are done.with this one.
21 (The meeting-is adjourned at 3:17 p.m., Tuesday, 22 July 9th, 1985.)
23 END fil 24 Anw neenwises,Inc.
25 >
i l
_ , . - .. ....__._,.,x.. - - . . , . _ . . , ... .- - , _ ._ , - ,_ _,,, , ,.__ __ , .,_,..-,_,.m, . , , _ . . . , , , , , _ , . _ - _ . _ . - . - ,
.. -. - . .- .. - .- - - . . ~ . . -
CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED ST5TES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: DAVIS BESSE INCIDENT i (Interview & Meeting)
(CLOSED)
DOCKET NO.: --
PLACE: OAK HARBOR, Oli DATE: -TUESDAY,' JULY 9, 1985 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
- ( s i g t ) 7M_ , _ , ,%,, , .
e
/./. //s!fc.2/c , (sigt
- M * ,
l (Typed) MYNTLE H. WALSil
^ * ^ "' *
- l. .
Official Reporter ACE Federal Reporters Official Reporter Reporter's Affiliation ACE Federal Reporters (sigt) % #D (Typed) MARY .WMONS Official Reporter ACE Federal Reporter
- _ _ _ l_ _
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