ML20155H841
| ML20155H841 | |
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|---|---|
| Site: | Rancho Seco, 05000000 |
| Issue date: | 01/04/1986 |
| From: | Brock N SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT |
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Text
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- O UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
INTERVIEW WITH NORM BROCK, I& C MAINTENANCE SUPERINTENDENT LOCATION: HERALD, CALIFORNIA PAGES: 1 - 42 DATE: SATURDAY, JANUARY 4, 1986 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North CapitolStreet 860S160435 860306 2 0 75 DR ADOCK 0500 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
, 3 BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
3 4 In the Matter of: )
)
5 INTERVIEW WITH NORM BROCK, )
I&C MAINTENANCE SUPERINTEN- )
6 DENT )
__)
S 9
10 11 12 IS SATURDAY, JANUARY 4, 1986 O
15 RANCHO SECO NUCLEAR GENERATING STATION 16 14440' TWIN CITIES ROAD 17 HERALD, CALIFORNIA 18 19 20 21 22 28 24 25 O 1 PETER 5 EHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 972+3594
2 1
APPEARANCES b
v 2 NUCLEAR _ REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 J. T. BEARD ANDY HON 4 CHRIS'MYERS 5 SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT 6 NORM BROCK DAN WHITNEY 7
8 9
10 11 12 13
(] 14 15 16 17 IS 19 n 20 21 II 3
24 25 i
PETERE SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 973-8994 L.
3 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 MR. BEARD: This is a meeting with Norm Brock, 3 who is the I&C engineering supervisor here at the plant.
The purpose of the meeting is to investigate a little further 5 two different areas relating to the ICS. Let me see if 6 I can characterize it, then we can decide which one we can 7 go into first.
8 The first area that I can think of is the initiation 9 of the AUX feedwater that apparently occurred, because of 10 the main feedwater speed runback.
11 The second area is the apparent failure of scale 12 of some indicators in the control room, specifically the 13 main feedwater flow recorder, I believe it was that was 14 highlighted. It may have affected the indicator for that 15 parameter, also, I'm not sure.
16 Now, before we get started, because there's been 17 some confusion, the level of detail that I would like to 13 be able to get to is that we can get an ICS type block 19 diagram or some sort of block diagram and, say, okay, the 20 signal goes from A to point C. In the meantime, it goes 21 through point B. Point B happens to be under ICS control 22 or power or something; and because B went out, the signal 23 never got to C. That kind of level of detail.
24 But I would like to be able to go to drawings, at 25 some point and be able to piece together that chain and, A
V PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594 i
4 1 you know.
O 2 MR. BROCK: Okay. You don't have--I didn't give 3 you a set of all the NNI drawings. It's not here. The 4 21 series is the ICS. But there will be parts of that total 5 feedwater thing that won't be in there. It will say it 6 comes from another said drawing.
7 MR. BEARD: All right.
8 MR. BROCK: Can we talk about that one first?
9 MR. BEARD: Which one are you talking about?
10 MR. BROCK: The feedwater flow indication.
11 MR. BEARD: Sure. Whatever is more comfortable 12 to you.
33 MR. BROCK: In that case, the signal that's record-
/'] 14 ed is the signal out of the ICS after it's been modified.
V 15 I will talk talk just about what it is first. It's a signal 16 that'the ICS thinks is feedwater flow.
17 MR. BEARD: But is it compensated at this point?
13 MR. BROCK: It's compensated, yes.
19 MR. BEARD: And the temperature-- It's already 20 been compensated?
21 MR. BROCK: Temperature compensated before it
~
22 gets to the ICS.
23 MR. BEARD: Okay.
24 MR. BROCK: But it comes in there from two places.
25 It comes from startup flow transmitter and from the main PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894 I i
5 1 feed flow transmitter. And those two are actually viewed
~J 2 in different flows. The startup reads that just through 3 the startup loop, which goes around the main feedwater valve 4 and the block valve, and the main one, of course, reads 5 the entire flow down the big pipe.
6 So the main feed flow, at low, low leves is like 7 any flow transmitter that uses--because of the square root 8 effect, the squared effect isn't very accurate at low flows.
9 MR. BEARD: I see.
10 MR. BROCK: And they tend--they want to be able 11 to use the startup signal at low flows because it's further 12 up on scale. And so it's brought--both of those flows are 13 brought into the ICS on--210177, I think.
, 14 MR. BEARD: 77? -
}
15 MR. BROCK: Yeah. There--both of those flows 16 are brought in, the startup flow and the main flow. And 17 with this combination of modules, they do several things, Is they add a little time delay, which basically is a filter.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay. Let me interrupt you. I hate 20 to have to do this, but for the sake of the transcript,
- 21 they don't know how to record noddings too well.
22 MR. BROCK: Okay.
23 MR. BEARD: Can you identify those modules in 24 any way?
15 MR. BROCK: Okay. That module is identified O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (1H&) 973 3394 L_
6 1 by cabinet 4, row 8, module 7, module 8, and module 10.
2 And that--
3 MR. BEARD: Okay.
4 MR. BROCK: --those two flows are operated upon 5 and then sent off to do the things they do in the ICS.
6 MR. BEARD: In the control part, right.
7 MR. BROCK: Right. And they' re also sent back -
8 out to be recorded.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay. That's the part that we were 10 tripping over, is that we ccaldn't see the place where it 11 went out. It looked as though it was going to a recorder.
12 MR. BROCK: This will get back-- This is back 13 to NNI, where it says right here, the secondary plant con-14 trol, 150770, and you haven't got that drawing over here.
15 MR. BEARD: I see. So--
16 MR. BROCK: I'll see that you get that drawing.
17 MR. BEARD: --we were thinking it went to some la other control. And really on those other drawings--
19 MR. BROCK: That's.the NNI.
20 MR. BEARD: Yeah. --drawings we'd find.out that's 21 where the recorder hangs.
22 MR. BROCK: Yeah.
23 MR. BEARD: Okay. That's where we were tripping 24 up.
25 MR. BROCK: Anyway, what this does, in effect, O
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORAT10N 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE, SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
7 1 it does what I said. The ICS wants as good a flow as it d 2 can get over the full range of flow. So these transfer 3 relays down here transfer on main block valve--
4 MR. BEARD: Uh-huh.
5 MR. BROCK: --actuation.
4 MR. BEARD: Uh-huh.
7 MR. BROCK: The block valves close at low flows 3 and opens when you get up on the main valve.
9 MR. BEARD: The block one closes like when they 10 start up at 80 percent or something.
11 MR. BROCK: In order to make that essentially 12 a bumpless transfer--
13 MR. BEARD: Uh-huh.
p 14 MR. BROCK: --there's a little bit of interval C/
15 control in it. That's what that's all about. A little 16 time delay just for filtering, if you will, so that the 17 signal is recorded in a smoother fashion.
13 MR. BEARD: Okay. So--
19 MR. BROCK: What you have on the panometers is 20 these two signals out here, you've got the compensated--
21 temperature compensated close, but you've got--remember 22 you've got main and startup.
33 MR. BEARD: Right.
24 MR. BROCK: Those are both on the--
25 MR. BEARD: Separate.
O PETERB SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A
, SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 972 8894
8 m
1 MR. BROCK: Yeah.
2 MR. BEARD: Okay. So for control purposes, they 3 come in and sort of combine these things.
! 4 MR. BROCK: And then they--
5 MR. BEARD: And make it a smooth thing, and then 6 they record it.
7 MR. BROCK: Then they record that.
8 MR. HON: Then the panometers before--
9 MR. BROCK: The panometers is these things.
10 MR. HON: Yes.
11 MR. BROCK: It's a main and a startup, separate.
12 MR. HON: Okay. And that's before the ICS. So la they will be affected by the ICS failure.
O 14 MR. BROCK:. That's right.
V 15 MR. BEARD: Okay. So I guess what it amounts 16 to is the recorder is really an ICS control signal that 17 relates to main feedwater'but isn't exactly main feedwater--
18 its like some minor adjustments.
19 MR. BROCK: It's main feedwater that has been 20 filtered a litile bit. And when you're up in the--with 21 hh'e--when you're up with the block valve open--
22 'MR. BEARD: Yas.
23 MR. BROCK: -
.t is truly main feedwater you're 24 reading.
25 MR. BEARD: Except for some little time delay?
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RivCR ORivE. butte A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95335
- TELEPHONE (916) 973 5394
9 1 MR. BROCK: Except for our filtering, yes.
2 MR. BEARD: So it's essentially the same.
3 MR. BROCK: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: Very close to it.
5 MR. BROCK: Yeah.
6 MR. BEARD: I could certainly understand, for ,
7 all practical purposes--
8 MR. BROCK: It's not really a demand signal.
9 It's a flow--
10 MR. BEARD: Yes.
13 MR. BROCK: --that's been conditioned.
12 MR. BEARD: Right. But you would expect it to 13 be a little bit different from the ones that are on the 14 meters anyway? ,
15 MR. BROCK: Could be at low flows, particularly, gg MR. MYERS: Is it still consistent, Norm, that 17 on loss of ICS power to the little bit of control massaging 33 that goes on with those signals, that a loss of the power 3, will generate a 50-percent flow signal?
20 MR. BEARD: We really haven't gotten to that 21 point, and that is it goes through these three modules.
. 33 What's the output of those modules, when you lose power 28 f10W*
34 MR. BROCK: The output of that module right there, 25 which goes out to there will fail to zero volts, on a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 94335 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
- __ - - - - . , ....__... ~ . , . _ ,.._.,.....,..._.,e
10 1 loss of ICS power. And that--
2 MR. BEARD: And that module you're referring 3 to is what, 4A10?
4 MR. BROCK: 4A10, yes. '
5 MR. HON: The range of the outflow of the module 6 is from a minus 10 to plus 109-7 MR. BROCK: Yes.
8 MR. HON: -normally.
9 MR. "iOCK: I--I didn't look that up or anything, 10 that's from memory; but it's yes, minus or plus 10.
11 MR. BEARD: That's what I would expect it to 12 be. So that the loss of the 24 volts to make those modules 13 work is what caused the signal output to go to =ero.
{ 14 MR. BROCK: Right.
15 MR. BEARD: Which is mid scale.
16 MR. BROCK: Zero volts, which is mid scale or 17 50 percent flow.
~
18 MR. BEARD: And I assume that this minus to plus 19 10 signal then goes through some other things in the NNI 20 system, so that zero volt just carries through whatever 21 those manipulations are.
22 MR. BROCK: I think that goes directly to a 23 recorder.
24 MR. BEARD: Is the recorder itself minus 10/plus 25 10?
O V
PETERB SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMENICAN RIVEN Delve. SulTE A BACNAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95555 TELEPHONE (914) 973 8894
11 1 MR. BROCK: Yes.
O V 2 MR. BEARD: I was thinking some of your meters 3 probably are too.
4 MR. BROCK: Yes. The ones we call RY's--
5 MR. BEARD: Yes.
6 MR. BROCK: --Baily RY's are minus 10/plus 10, 7 although you can get them in different things; but that's 8 what we use.
9 MR. BEARD: Yes.
10 MR. BROCK: You pull them out--pull them out, 11 disconnect them, they read mid scale.
12 MR. BEARD: So do you understand this phenonanum 18 now Chris, to the point where, you know, we don't have to--
(3 14 we're all in agreement on the technical aspects of it.
%)
15 MR. MYERS: Yes.
16 MR. BEARD: We're all in agreement on the 17 technical aspects of it. Are you happy, Andy?
18 MR. HON: Yes.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, let me go to something 20 on the same subject, just a little bit less chasing the 21 drawings around.
Okay.
22 MR. BROCK:
23 MR. BEARD: The end result of this seems to be 24 that if the operator looks on his control board, he's going 25 to find a meter that says zero main feed flow, because, O
PETERS EHoRTHANo REPORTING CoMPoRATioN 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. BulTC A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3894
12 1 in fact the main feed flow has gone to zero. And he's going b 2 to find a recorder that says mid scale or, I think the number 3 they're batting around is like three and a half million 4 pounds an hour.
5 MR. BROCK: Mid scale ones.
6 MR. BEARD: Yeah. And so this has the potential 7 maybe for confusing this fellow, because he has suffered 8 a loss of ICS power and he's been trained, I believe, that 9 on loss of ICS power things tend to go to the mid scale 10 position. He may really believe that he's got mid scale 11 value for the main feed flow or at least, at a minimum, 12 he's got conflicting inputs to his thinking process.
13 MR. BROCK: Well, I think he at least knows that 14 his valves went to mid positions--
15 MR. BEARD: Right, 16 MR. BROCK: --and his feed pumps run back and 17 he may not know the condition of what his actual feed flow 13 is, you know. He--he's also trained to look at more than 19 one instrument, as we discussed--
20 MR. BEARD: Sure.
21 MR. BROCK: --previously.
22 You're right. He's got two indications of feed 23 flow on the panel that are reading different things. One 24 o'f them has failed and the other one hasn't.
25 MR. BEARD: Okay. And I think given the general b
V PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, sulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95335 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3894
13 1 nature of this particular transient that things all over O
V 2 the plant were going to mid scale.
3 MR. BROCK: A lot of things.
4 MR. BEARD: In the haste of battle, as it were, 5 I think it would have been very reasonable for him to assume 6 he probably had a substantial amount of flow, you know, 7 three or four million pounds.an hour.
8 MR. BROCK: But what do you suspect his-- If--
if he drew that conclusion--you know, we're speculating 9
10 beyond where I really want to speculate--if he did, I think 11 all he would do is trip the feed pumps, which he already 12 did and did by procedure anyway, if I remember right.
13 MR. BEARD: Well, the thing that I'm getting 14 at is, in the sequence of the events that we've seen and 15 studied and analyzed up the kazoo, it appears that the main 16 feedwater flow actually was terminated at the time the reactor 17 ' ripped.
t Okay? You know, we can go back to whether--
13 MR. BROCK: Yeah.
19 MR'. BEARD: --that's actually precisely right 20 .or not; but sometime around--
21 MR. BROCK: Shortly thereafter.
22 MR. BEARD: Yeah. And that--
23 MR. WHITNEY: Actually it should have at the 24 head of the trip, because that's what led to the trip was 25 the under towing.
f U
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5994
14 1 MR. BROCK: What it reduced, certainly; but after 2 you tripped it--
3 MR. WHITNEY: It continued to reduce down to 4 minimum.
5 MR. BEARD: All right. But the point was that 6 the interviews that we've had with the operators repeatedly, 7 not just one operator, the whole flock, has said that they 8 believe they had an overcooling situation, they believed 9 that they had doublefeeding going on, they had main feed 10 pumping in, they believed they had AUX feed pumping in.
11 And they were--that's why they ended up tripping the main 12 feed pump, as well as sending people out to close down the 13 AUX feedwater valves.
14 But it's clear in my mind that the operators 15 believed they had main feed at the time they tripped the 16 pumps--okay--based on what they told us.
17 ' MR. BROCK: Okay. I hadn't--
18 MR '. BEARD: Okay. Now, how.much you want to 19 relate what their belief was to these indicator is another 20 story.
21 MR. BROCK: This isn't one of their prime sources 22 of main feedwater flow indication is--because it shows
~
25 trends. ~
24 MR. BEARD: You said it is a prime source?
25 MR. BROCK: Yes, a prime source.
O PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMEmicAN MlvEm DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 98535 TELEPHONE (914) 973 8594
15 1 MR. BEARD: I believe it is, because when I was V 2 operating, I always went to a recorder any time I had a 3 chance.
4 MR. BROCK: Yeah, I would too.
5 MR. BEARD: Yeah. And you know, it could have 6 contributed to the confusion. Now, in my own mind, this 7 particular one is not of great significance in this event, 8 because the operator was trying to reduce main feed flow 9 anyway. He did end up tripping the pumps. But it's just 10 that the feed flow was already tripped, so it was in the 11 right direction. Okay? In other words, it was already 12 tripped before he knew it was tripped, so to speak.
13 But I could envision or maybe one could
_] 14 hypothesize different scenarios where he wanted to get flow 15 and had an indication that there already was mid scale flow 16 and he would be deceived in a non-conservative way. Do 17 you see what I'm getting at hypothetically?
13 MR. BROCK: Hypothetically, that's probably possib:.e .
19 MR. BEARD: Yeah. That's part of it.
20 Now, the other question that would come up', you 21 know, bearing that kind of a concern in mind, is do we have
~
22 a good handle on what other indicators may have similar 23 interface with.the ICS that were affected by this loss.
24 And one of them came up in the sequence of events happened 25 to be pressurizer level, because there was a long discertatio n PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN R4VER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95555 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894
16 1
about some channels having temperature compensation and 2
some not, like the one that goes into the Bailey is a.compen-3 sated channel and the one that goes into IDADS is not 4 compensated. So there was some discussion about temperature 5 compensation. And since it was a temperature compensation 6 that was originally believed to be this one--
7 MR. BROCK: I'm not aware of any tie between 8 that and the ICS.
9 MR. BEARD: I didn't suspect so.
10 MR. BROCK: And I'm also not aware of any other 11 signals that are similarly treated in the ICS.
12 MR. BEARD: Let me ask you this question, if 15 you were to ask one of your engineers to go through the 14 ICS drawings and look for these interfaces where recorders 15 and meters come off and then chase them back upstream to 16 see if they were manipulated by ICS modules, how much of 17 an effort would that amount to? Is that a couple hours 18 or couple days?
19 MR. BROCK: It's more than a couple hours, but 20 probably less than a couple of days, probably bracketed, 21 I would guess, with that. I think--I think that's one thing 22 that we could do without any great harm.
25 MR. BEARD: You mentioned-- Before we get on 24 to the second subject--
25 MR. BROCK: We do have, I believe, an item in PETERS SHoRTHANo REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERicAN MlVER DRIVE. SulTE A
. sAcnAwEuro, c4uromwir esess vEi.EpwowE (sis) ovs see4 -
17 1 1
our troubleshooting plan that you're going to see, that O
\/ 2 says one step in there trips ICS power.
3 MR. BEARD: This is the ICS troubleshooting plan?
4 MR. BROCK: Yes. Which you will see.
5 MR. BEARD: Yes.
4 MR. BROCK: That refers to checking operator 7 indications at the point that we do trip that power to look 8 at control room indications. And that's a double check 9 on the review that you--
10 MR. BEARD: Good.
11 MR. BROCK: --just mentioned.
12 MR. BEARD: That sounds like a very worthwhile, la you know, the proof of the pudding is in the taste.
./~S 14 MR. BROC,K: We've thought of it in that respect.
O 15 MR. BEARD: You mentioned earlier that, I guess la the explanation of why when we were going over the drawings 17 we tripped over our sneaker strings was because in these is other Erawings--how much trouble would it be to get us a 19 set of the NNI drawings?
^
20 MR. BROCK: Not a great bit of trouble, just 21 more big stack of the same things. And I'll get them for 23 you, if you'd like to have them.
23 MR. BEARD: I would like to have them.
24 MR. BROCK: Fine.
25 MR. HON: Especially the recorder.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING cDRPORATION 3433 AMERICAN AlvEN ORIVE. SulTE A SACNAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 96538 .
TELEPHONE (916) 973+SSM
i 18 1 MR. BROCK: No. What he's talking about is the C\
(_/ 2 drawings like this. They look just like these--
3 MR. BEARD: Yes.
4 MR. BROCK: --that show all of the steams with 5 transmitters, all the way through the indicators and the 6 NNI system.
7 MR. BEARD: Hopefully if we have that set--
8 MR. BROCK: You could tie the two together.
9 MR. BEARD: --we could tie the two together and 10 find any indicator, where it goes and where it interfaces 11 with the ICS and so forth.
12 MR. BROCK: Right.
IS MR. BEARD: If it's not a great deal of trouble, rx 14 I would like to have it.
V 15 MR. BROCK: All right.
16 MR. BEARD: I guess, at this point, do you fellows 17 have any more questions on this?
18 MR. MYERS : Only one. Would the operators tend 19 to have known the source of the strip chart signal, that 20 it wasn't necessarily a--just a temperature compensated 21 feedwater indication but was a signal coming out of the 22 ICS?
13 MR. BROCK: I don't know. That's the real truth.
24 I think that very well could have been mentioned in some 25 operator training, I don't know; but, Jesus, I don't know O
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN river drive. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95555 TELEPHONE (914) 973*S894
19 1 that I would remember all of that kind of detail. I didn't O
V 2 remember it. I remembered that that was different. That 3 that circuit was different. I remembered that what was 4 recorded wasn't exactly the same as what was down there, 5 but I had to go back there and look at the drawing to remem-6 ber how it was. Can't remember it all. I'm sure they can't 7 either.
8 MR. BEARD: Yeah. You know, back several years 9 ago, when the plant started having a noticeable amount of 10 NNI, we issued like bulletin 7927. Part of that effort it was to have identified for the operators what he would lose 12 and what he wouldn't lose under certain conditions, so he 13 could know what he was to believe and what not to believe.
p 14 It may have come out in that, I dont know.
V 15 MR. BROCK: Our approach to that was how identifica- !
16 tion to the operator, what he had lost and then procedures 17 that told him exactly what instruments to use in the event 13 of those losses.
19 MR. BEARD: Yeah. I'm not splitting hairs with 20 you on that.
Il MR. DROCK: It's a little different than what--
22 we didn't go to each individual instrument and say this 23 is powered from that power supply--
24 MR. BEARD: Sure.
gg MR. BROCK: --NNIX-1.
(V3 PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMCRICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A NACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 98535 TELEPHONE (916) 973.e394
-- _ . - - - - - ~ ._.,
20 j 1 MR. BEARD: I understand. Okay.
'/ 2 If everybody is through, then I suggest we go 3 onto the second subject, which was the initiation of AUX 4 feedwater. Let me make an introductory comment on that 5 subject.
6 I realize from my general knowledge of the way 7 the ICS works that the normal control for the speed of the 8 pump comes off the delta differential pressure across the 9 feedwater regulating valves, the famous 35 pounds of super 10 heat kind of thing. Okay.
11 I'm aware also that to smooth out the transition 12 that for large changes of demand on feedwater flow, to have 13 an anticipatory or feed forward signal that goes over on
~
(~) 14 iarge demand increases and adjusts the speed in anticipation LJ 15 of the DP change. So that if the ICS was up and running 16 and hypothetically the guy just cranks the demand from 75 17 percent to 50 percent, I realize this kicker will come into 18 speed and run it back.
19 Now, the part about this story that I'm having 20 trouble understanding is, here we had lost power; but 21 apparently we've got the same phenomena as if the ICS were 12 still functioning properly with power.
23 MR. BROCK: Well, I think that's--
24 HR. BEARD: And I guess I'm trying to understand 25 whether the thing is in the process of dying and it's the O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 98835 TELEPHONE (916) 973.GS94
21 1 last gasping breath or what. I
'!3 2
(/ MR. BROCK: No. The control of-- The output 3 from the ICS is a voltage to what we call our Lovejob feed 4 pump control circuit.
5 MR. BEARD: And it's a zero or minus--
6 MR. BROCK: It's a--
7 MR. BEARD: --minus 10 to plus 10?
8 MR. BROCK: No. That's arranged differently.
9 It's arranged zero to plus five volts or some other number; 10 so that when you fail, you actually do get a zero demand 11 to the other system, to the Lovejoy system. And a zero 12 demand to the Lovejoy system just tells it to run back to 13 some pre-determined minimum speed.
MR. BEARD: Go to minimum speed.
(o) 14 15 MR. BROCK: And so that's how--that's why that 16 one did what it did.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay. So it wasn't that we had this--
18 MR. BROCK: There was no kicker coming back.
19 MR. BEARD: --fail to zero.
20 MR. BROCK: There was no demand running down.
21 There was just a zero output signal, which to the Lovejoy 22 system, which was still running--no, not really still running, 23 Part of it was powered down. Part of it was powered down 24 also. But--
~
25 MR. BEARD: Part of the Lovejoy system?
%)
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATlDN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. butte A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPNONE (916) 973-5894
1 22 1
MR. BROCK: Yeah. The Lovejoy is designed so 2
that if it loses its input signal to zero, it runs the pump I at minimum speed.
4 MR. BEARD: So basically some of what I think 5 I. heard you say is that the--the interface between the ICS 6
and the pump controls, per se, is not the minus 10, zero 7 to plus ten--
8 MR. BROCK: That's right, it's not.
9 MR. BEARD: --but it's the zero to plus something, 10 like plus five.
11 MR. BROCK: Right. And the number that's there 12 is the number that's scaled to give us an upper limit on--
la on pump speed, so that we don't allow that system to run c 14 the pum to overspeed trip.
's 15 MR. BEARD: Right. All right. That explains 16 it. So it's not the kicker circuit that comes in--
17 MR. BROCK: No.
18 MR. BEARD: --it's just strictly the loss of 19 power. Okay.
20 I had a thought and it just blew away.
21 Oh, you said that the Lovejoy itself experienced 22 some degree of loss of power, it was powered down.
23 MR. BROCK: The portion--one portion of the Lovejo) 24 and the ramp circuit generator, it's a fairly complex system.
25 If you'd like here in the next few days, we'll make sure O
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_ ._~ . _ _ .
23 1 you get a chance to see that and understand that. Part (3
t/ 2 of it is powered from the -from ICS power, so that it is--
3 it would be lost. Then there is a current loop between 4 that whole portion and the part that's downstairs. And 5 that current loop failure would just cause it to go minimum 6 speed.
7 MR. BEARD: Okay. So that--
8 MR. BROCK: I haven't dug those drawings out.
9 MR. BEARD: Oh, I'm not--
10 MR. BROCK: As I recollect, the part upstairs 11 is powered from ICS. I think we made that change after 12 we installed it. And the part downstairs is powered, DC 13 power with an inverter, from some battery back--I don't 14 think it's the same as maybe-- I've got to look that up, 15 to be honest. I didn't bring drawings that would show that.
16 MR. BEARD: That's all right. I was looking 17 for just a general understanding anyway, at this point.
18 MR. BROCK: It was not the kicker circuit. You 19 truly did get a signal within the Lovejoy system, really, 20 that said the thing should go to minimum speed.
21 MR. BEARD: You really would have had the same 22 end result, whether it was in the Lovejoy circuit or the 23 ICS, the way it's scaled.
24 MR. BROCK: Yes, right.
25 MR. BEARD: So the--
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e ~
24 1 MR. BROCK: A failure of a module, for instance,
/~'
())
2 that caused it to go to zero without a power failure would 3 do the same thing--
4 MR. BEARDi Right.
5 MR. BROCK: --it would drive it to the minimum 6 . speed.
7 MR. BEARD: I heard some scuttlebut that'you've 8 made some recent modification with regard to power to--
9 I guess you got a Lovejoy unit for each of the main feed 10 pumps. And apparently the operators experienced the situation 11 where, I guess, one time they were bringing the plant down 12 and they couldn't get it to driv'e below minimum speed or
,13 srcaething of this nature.
J14 MR. BROCK: Now, that's not--
p(/
15 MRe BEARD: One mod had it on and one didn't 16 or something. It was very confusing, and I was wondering--
17 MR. BROCK: Okay.
Is MR. BEARD: --if you could help me.
19 MR. BROCK: I will explain that one to you.
20 You don't want the Lovejoy to be-able to-drive 21 it below minimum speed, be,cause there are critical speeds 22 on the pump'down there. So you don't want to be able to )
23 drive it down to something less than 2500 RPM's, because 24 you don't want it to set at one of these critical speeds 25 from a vibration standpoint. But you want to be able to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95825 TEL'EF' HONE (916) 972=5594
,# - m. _ . . , ,_ _ . _ . .
25 1
bring it up in a slow mode, so that you don't take a cold It] 2 feed pump and run it up real fast. So the Lovejoy control 3 circuit is designed with a ramp control. And it's a very, 4 very slow ramp voltage that ramps the thing up.
5 MR. BEARD: From zero up through the minimum?
6 MR. BROCK: From =ero up through--and it's got 7 two or three ramp speeds, so that you can ramp it up very, 8 very slow, get close to the--to the criticals and go to 9 a faster ramp, but through the criticals, and go back to 10 a slow ramp, continue the ramp up, until you get up in the 11 range where it swaps over and controls off of the foot from 12 the ICS.
13 The operators were trying to use that ramp, becaus e 14 it will ramp down off of them. To ramp it down below 15 minimum speed-- And one of them would and one wouldn't, 16 because of differences in the internal modules that are 17 in the Lovejoy system. But in reality, I think the instruc-
~
18 tions that finally came out to the operators were to follow 19 the procedure that says come to minimum speed and trip the 20 pump anyway. Because you really don't want them to ramp e
21 back down through those minimum speeds.
22 So there was a lot of confusion on that whole V
23 issue, but there is a difference between the two modules.
24 That difference is explained and there is a abnormal tag 25 that de' scribed that abnormal difference. And they changed C)
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26 1 some wiring to account for that different module. And the (3
V 2 thing--the difference is, it's almost identical to the 3 difference between a 721 system and an 820 system. One 4 of the modules has an internal power supply and the other 5 one doesn't.
6 MR. BEARD: .I see.
7 MR. BROCK: And so the module was put in there.
8 They knew a replacement module has to be powered from another 9 module which provides its power. So we had to go change 10 the wiring.
11 MR. BEARD: So instead of replacing it with-- -
12 it would accept 115, you had to go someplace and the the 13 247
^ 14 MR. BROCK: 24 or whatever. I think it was 12.
b 15 But I don't remember what the-- That was the change and 16 that was what made the two circuits different complicated 17 by the story of not being able to ramp it down below minimum 18 speed, when you didn't really want to ramp them down below 19 minimum speed anyway.
20 MR. BEARD: Right.
21 So that means that I guess on loss of ICS power, 22 which is where I guess you're getting that 12 or 24 volts 23 from--
24 MR. BROCK: No. That one comes from--let me double-25 check my memory. That is powered from the supply down below.
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27 1 That exists whether or not you have ICS power.
2 MR. BEARD: Okay. Fine.
3 MR. HON: So what we're saying is that modifica-4 tion did not result in increased load on the ICS power 5 supply.
6 MR. BROCK: Right. No, that's an internal--
7 that's internal to the Lovejoy cabinets that are downstairs.
8 Those are powered from those inverters that up on the wall--
9 MR. BEARD: Uh-huh.
10 MR. BROCK: -that come off of a separate bus.
11 MR. BEARD: Okay. I think I have a working know-ledge--obviously not the details, but a working knowledge
~
12 13 generally of what you described.
N 14 MR. BROCK: It's not complex. And if you want (G
15 the details when we sit down either here or, you know, with 16 the people that know more--I have engineers who know more 17 about these circuits than I do.and follow them daily. We 13 can get you more information, however you want to do it.
19 MR. BEARD: Okay.
20 MR. BROCK: The reason those guys haven't talked 21 to you today, is those are the same guys that are over there 22 writing the action plan.
23 MR. BEARD: That's the reason we tried not to 24 bother you yesterday and this morning, thought you were 25 Pretty busy.
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28 1 There's something I still have a little trouble v 2 getting the handle on, and it wasn't one of the two topics 3 that I mentioned earlier but maybe one you or Dan, one, 4 can help me understand.
5 The operators thought that they had main feed 6 flow up, that's the reason they tripped the pumps. But 7 in fact, later reports indicate the flow actually had gone 8 to zero about the time of trip, reactor trip.
9 Do we know--maybe you know the answer--why that to occurred? My initial reaction was because the speed went 13 back so far and so fast that it couldn't pump against the 12 head of the steam generator any more. And I'm not sure 33 that's right thinking at all.
14 MR. WHITNEY: Well, th'at's what our analysis 0^ shows it was. We have IDADS data on pump speed--
15 16 MR. BEARD: Yeah.
17 MR. WHITNEY: --it correlates very nicely with 18 the loss of ICS power as showing the rapid ramp down to 39 pump minimum speed.
20 MR. BEARD: Uh-huh.
21 MR. WHITNEY: And we mentioned earlier, we've 22 got some recent test data that we ran at the lower speeds 23 on those pumps for the purpose of determining the dis-24 charge head as a function of that lower speed. And we have 25 every reason to believe that those things were backed off, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3594
29 1
p they were not delivering the water to the steam generators.
2 MR. BROCK: We ran some tests, as Dan said, to 3 specifically prove to ourselves that at minimum speed the 4 pump discharge pressure would be low enough to not feed 5 and to pick up the pressure switches that actuate AUX 6 feedwater.
7 MR. BEARD: That they would pick them up?
8 MR. BROCK: Yes.
9 MR. WHITNEY: Okay.
10 MR. BROCK: That's a very flat curve down there, 11 but we got some pretty good test data on that here.
12 MR. BEARD: So I guess--let me see if I can say 15 it and make sure I've got it right. Initially you had high n 14' pressure in the reactor cooling system, which had low pressure b
15 in the steam generator, cause you had your ADV's and turbine 16 bypass valves open.
17 MR. WHITNEY: Now, let's step back just a second.
18 We're running along a steady state, and the initia]
19 thing that happened is ICS, quote, went away, and valves 20 opened which caused a new load to exist on the secondary 21 Plant. And as a reult, the control valves for the turbines 22 are still out there working. Their job is to maintain a 25 constant air pressure. So as the ADV's and the bypass valves 24 come open, the turbine unloads to compensate. So nothing 25 changes as far as steam header pressure is concerned, for n
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i l
30 1
1 all intents and purposes. Total reactor load stays constant. !
(3
'V 2 It's just shifted from the turbine to the nut valves.
3 MR. BEARD: Right. Header pressure would remain 4 the same.
5 MR. WHITNEY: Yes. That has not changed. But 6 what is changing is we're backing off water flow at a rather 7 rapid rate. So what's now going to happen is steam generator 8 level drops a little and you are no longer removing as much 9 heat from the primary system as you were. And consequently, 10 the primary system pressure goes up. That's what picked 11 up a high pressure trip on the reactor and shoved the reactor 12 down. And now you've turned off the heat, you've shifted 13 your loads and no longer are you feeding the steam generators, pJ 14 you're still demanding from the steam generators. So at 15 that point was when we had initiated auxiliary feedwater, 16 because the back--
17 MR. BEARD: Right.
18 MR WHITNEY: --main pumps off, it started the 19 auxiliary feedwater. Those valves were already opened.
20 And we immediately start removing more heat than there is 21 available to be removed and consequently the undercooling 22 starts. .
23 So initially, we have this short duration over--
24 undercooling, followed by the overcooling.
~
25 MR. BEARD: Right. I understand that. Now, O
PETERS sHDRTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5994
31 1 I was curious about the part--I hadn't stopped to think 2 about it. You're right. I'll call it the turbine control 3 system as part of the ICS is maintaining steam side, if 4 I can, is maintaining--trying to maintain a constant header 5 pressure. Now, on reactor trip I guess it still tends to 6 maintain a constant header pressure, but I think it goes 7 to a higher set point.
8 MR. WHITNEY: On trip, we trip the turbine--
9 MR. BEARD: Yes.
10 MR. WHITNEY: --and when that happens you close 13 the throttle valves--
12 MR. BEARD: On the turbine.
33 MR. WHITNEY: --on the turbine. The thing that 14 shifts is you then shift the control point on the dump valves.-*
15 What is it, 25 to 75--25 pounds higher?
16 MR. BROCK: Yeah.
17 MR. BEARD: But the way the--
13 MR. BROCK: The ICS functions to control header 19 Pressure is through the turbine valves. Now, that's done
-20 - with a pulsar.
23 MR. BEARD: Yes...
22 MR. BROCK: So figure ICS power didn't do anything 23 to the valves. They've been put in a certain position by 24 the last time the pulsars had moved them.
25 MR. BEARD: They just stayed there.
i O _
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32 1
MR. BROCK: And that pulsar just stops, you lose O 2 power. So they stayed in whatever position they were in.
3 They weren't trying to maintain pressure. And in fact you'll 4 see, I think, the header pressure probably started down 5 prior to the trip.
6 MR. BEARD: Yeah.
7 MR. BROCK: Because the dumps--
8 MR. BEARD: ADV's and dumps.
9 MR. BROCK: Yeah, right. --come open.
10 MR. BEARD: Right.
11 MR. BROCK: And the turbine, it's probably losing 12 a few megawatts because the header pressure come down but 13 the valves are just happy, they're sitting there.
14 MR. BEARD: Okay.
15 MR. BROCK: Nothing's moving them.
16 MR. BEARD: Okay. So they--prior to the trip, 17 what you readdy had was-- We were trying to do a balance 18 just to get a handle on the magnitude of what we're talking o.
19 'about. And I think that we estimated the two ADV's were 20 probably worth 15 percent power or something like that.
21 The tui-bine bypass valves open may have been worth another 22 15 percent or some number like that. So you've got the 23 equivalent steam flow of maybe 30 percent reactor power 24 going out those two ports.
25 Now, that means that initially the steam removal I
O I
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( TELEPHONE (916) 973-8594 b
o 33 I from the steam generators, if the turbine valves stayed 2 stopped is 30 percent higher than normal for that power 3 level and you're also running back your feed. So you've 4 got extra steam flow and low feed. So you're really in 5 a compounded situation.
6 But now, that's what causes the real rapid heat 7 up of the primary. And you can go out on high pressure.
I Now, that I understand. Now, as soon as you trip the reactor 9 your set ponts on steam pressure control are all pumped 10 up. And I think the way the set points are set up so that 11 your ADV and your bump valves will try to maintain header 12 pressure a little higher.
13 MR. WHITNEY: You've got one problem. Remember--
14 MR. BEARD: It wasn't working.
(a]
15 MR. WHITNEY: --what you're talking about comes 16 from the ICS.
17 MR. BEARD: Right, wasn't working.
18 MR. WHITNEY: And those valves were already open.
19 They were not controlling. They were--
20 MR. BEARD: They were just failed to an open 21 position.
22 ' MR. WHITNEY: They were at some position past--
23 MR. BROCK: High--
24 MR. BEARD: Yeah.
t 25 MR. WHITNEY: So in that situation, you don't i
w/
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34 1 know what you've got. And that's one of the reasons why
\> 2 we don't suspect that there was a whole lot of code safeties 3 lifting, like you would normally think.
4 MR. BROCK: I think the number is probably less 5 than 30 per thinking, okay.
6 MR. BEARD: I think it's 20.
7 MR. BROCK: So they're just sitting there partly 8 opened. So you've still got some--some cooling.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay.
10 MR. BROCK: But code safeties are waiting to 11 do the rest of it when you come up high enough pressure 12 to get down.
13 All of that part looks pretty straight forward.
{} 14 MR. BEARD: Okay. Is there any doubt with regard to the positioning of the AUX feedwater valves that are 15 16 controlled by the ICS? I mean, we've had some discussions 17 about it. You know, we keep going over this thing and making 13 sure we thoroughly understand it. And maybe it would be 19 helpful if I just went through what our current thinking 20 is. 'If I make a mistake, you can grap me.
21 MR. BROCK: Okay.
12 MR. BEARD: It seems to me that when you go below 23 this, I guess it's 850 pound set point on the main feed 24 pump,that two things happen, one is you start up the AUX 25 feed pumps, and you enable--assuming the system is working
(
l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594 t
35 1 now--you enable the ICS control--flow control valves to
()
' 2 respond and they, in turn, would, because they are now 3 enabled, try to maintain level at low level limit's. And 4 for the level in the generator at the time,-they probably 5 would not have even opened. But because of loss of power, 6 the EDP converter went south and you basically got a 50 7 percent deamnd. Okay. The EDP converter didn't go south, 3 I mean, it's through that box--
9 MR. BROCK: It did what it was designed to do.
10 MR. BEARD: Yeah. And so that right off you 11 had 50 percent opening and 50 percent demand on those valves.
12 And that's why you got AUX feedwater in, when you wouldn't 13 have.
(~} 14 Because one of the things we were toying around v
15 with was this idea of if you lose ICS, you go to the trip, 16 which you will invariably do, puts you into an overcooling 17 situation. Do you really want to design such that it com-13 pounds it with AUX feedwater.
19 MR. BROCK: No. I think the answer is no.
20 MR. BEARD: That's my thinking too. And that's 21 the reason we got into this thing, well, would the valves 22 have really opened-- And we have to keep Laaring in mind 25 that what'the system would have done with ICS power on and 24 what it did with loss of ICS power, really two separate 25 things.
(~1 s/
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TELEPNONE (916) 973 3394
36 1 MR. BROCK: I don't see anything wrong with your
.b,. 2 thinking, I just want to clarify a couple of points.
3 The ICS control valves are biased to a hard off.
4 MR. BEARD: Normally.
5 MR.. BROCK: Normally. They've got a minus 10 6 volt bias that sets them off. And when you get below 850 7 pounds and you decide to--on both pumps, and you enable 8 that circuit, you switch it over to a controller which is 9 kind of strange by some standards, so when you run into 10 it, I want you to understand it. It's a circuit that is 11 all inter-road control, and it is totally satisfied as long 12 as the startup level is within 30 plus or minus six inches, 13 but just sets there with no error, because of the way the 14 funI: tion generator in that circuit works. And only when O 15 the level goes outside of that did it generate an error 16 and try to move those valves from whatever position they're 17 in. So they can be satisfied totally closed or totally 13 open or whatever.
, 19 MR. BEARD: Yeah. That's why I was thinking 20 if the system was working initially and'you had high level 2j in the generator--by "high" I mean well above low-level 22 limits--
23 MR. BROCK: They sit there--
24 MR. BEARD: --they sit there staying closed.
25 And then, if the level fass, when it gets down to 30 minus b
4 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN river DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973=SS94
37 I something, then they'll start opening up, modulate and holding
. /,i 2 at 30.
3 MR. BROCK: No. They don't really do that. That's 4 what I want to make sure you understand.
5 MR. BEARD: They'11 go on/off between 24 and 6 36.
7 MR. BROCK: They go on and off outside of 24 8 to 36, so that it will--as a control system, it will be 9 satisfied at something slightly larger than 36 and slightly 10 smaller than 24.
11 MR. BEARD: I think you said that backwards.
12 MR. WHITNEY: No. He said it right. There's 13 a dead span between 24 and 36 inches in which nothing will
(] 14 15 happen.
MR. BEARD: That's right. So they will be 16 satisfied with anything less than 36 and more than 24. And 17 he said it the other way around.
18 MR. BROCK: No. They will satify--with changing 19 conditions in the steam generator, they will satisfy them-20 selves and maintain a valve position that maintains level
~
21 at a position that's either slightly below the 24-volt set 22 point or slightly above the 36-inch set point--inch not 23 volts, because of the nature of that control. It's kind 24 of strange. It has caused a lot of people a lot of soul 25 searching to understand that. But it turns out, if I remembe::,
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN mlVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (996) 973 8894
38 1 if you're in a situation where you're requiring less and im 2 less feedwater because you've got less deamdn, and so you're 3 actually reducing your denands for feedwater in the steam 4 generator I'm talking about, the level will run slightly 5 below 24 volts, not 24 inches. Okay?
6 MR. BEARD: Yeah.
7 MR. BROCK: And it was controlled along slightly a below that. And then, if you require--if you're requiring 9 more and more, it will control that. If you now require to less and less, the level will drift up to the top side and 33 control--any time it gets outside of 36, it will move it 12 back d'own.
33 MR. BEARD: Now, it's clear. The lightbulb came
(] 14 n.
MR. BROCK: That satisfies itself and it will 15 16 run along at one of those two levels or maybe bounce back 17 and f' ort'h between them. But typically it runs at either
~
is the 36 plus a little bit--
19 ME. BEARD: Yes.
20 MR. BROCK: --or the 24 minus a little bit.
21 MR. BEARD: I'see.
22 MR. BROCK: We run into that, you understand.
23 MR. BEARD: I remember that. I remember going 24 through, the first time I got acquainted with ICS. That 25 is a wierd one.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CDRPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973 5594
39 1 MR. BROCK: It's wierd and it bothers a lot of b
v 2 people.
3 MR. BEARD: Yes. A minute ago, when I said the 4 light came on, my memory woke up.
5 MR. BROCK: Okay.
6 MR. BEARD: All right. I think I've probably 7 gone as far as I can go right now. Do you have any questions 8 at all Andy?
9 MR. HON: No.
10 MR. BEARD: Chris?
11 MR. MYERS: No.
12 MR. BEARD: Okay.
13 MR. BROCK: I hope that by-- Dan, I hope tonight
(] 1'4 sometime, at the end of the day, tonight, this thing is ready for review--
15 16 MR. BEARD: By the :this" you mean--
17 MR. BROCK: --maybe by tomorrow, it's ready for is review over here.
19 MR. BEARD: The ICS troubleshooting plans is 20 the "it" you're talking about.
i .
l 21 MR. BROCK: . Yeah.
I 22 MR. WHITNEY: ~ I was going to suggest that as 33 a part of this meeting we'd give you a status on that. We 24 had earlier today spoken that it was very likely we intended 25 to get you that today. It now looks like we'll probably O
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40 1
,,_ have that for you at or very soon after the 8:00 gathering 2
in the morning.
3 In a similar fashion, I intend to have for you 4 our comments on your sequence of events development either
.5 or at the time of the completion of tomorrow morning's 6 meeting.
7 So I apologize for not having those two documents 8 to you today, but we've put in quite an effort, and I just 9 haven't been able to turn them out.
10 MR. BEARD: I understand. We've likewise been 11 putting in quite an effort. It's amazing the things that 12 we trip up on, like--we've got things that are in the 13 computer but we can't get them to print out for one reason
( 14 or another.
15 MR. WHITNEY: Out of your computer, I hope?
16 MR. BEARD: No. This is alittle personal com-17 puter.
18 MR. BROCK: Oh.
19 MR. BEARD: It is ours, in the sense it belongs 20 to the resident inspector's office.
21 MR. WHITNEY: -I thought it was only the utilitics 22 that had those problems.
- 23 MR. 53EARD: Well, there's a learning curve for 24 the young ladies that are operating the machine.
25 MR. WHITNEY: I see, okay.
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41 1 MR. BEARD: I notice there's a box over in the
("N
\- 2 corner of the room.
3 MR. WHITNEY: Oh, yeah, In fact, Norm, why don't 4 you describe that.
5 NR. BROCK: Okay. What you have over there is 6 per your request, a set of ICS instruction manuals that 7 you can put as part of the permanent record and have. What 3 you've got there is a set made as a copy of our library 9 master copy. It's marked " uncontrolled copies" because 10 we don't intend to control them, once you have them.
33 MR. BEARD: It was controlled up till today.
12 MR. BROCK: It was controlled up until we ran 33 the copies of the master in the library. But I would like
( 's 34 to have is the set that you have'back as soon as you V
'15 officially accept these. As I told you earlier the drawings 16 in there are reduced. If you've got a magnifying glass, 17 you can read them. I suggest you use the M-2101 series 33 nstead.
19 MR. BEARD: Well, even in my instant trifocals 20 I stopped doing that now; but I certainly appreciate what
~
( 21 you're talking about.
22 The three volumes of the ICS manual that we had gg on loan I've not been carrying back and forth just simply 24 because of their weight. They're in the hotel room. So r
25 I can bring those in tomorrow morning.
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42 1 MR. BROCK: Okay. No sweat.
2 I'd just like to get our distrubuted~ copies back 3 to their normal place.
4 MR. BEARD: Sure. Sure. That's the reason why 5 I wanted to get one that I felt I had the liberty to mark 6 on and things of that nature.
7 MR. BROCK: This is yours.
8 MR. BEARD: Okay.
9 MR. BROCK: One thing you might do for me, as 10 you review this thing and we're in a constant mode of updat-11 ing drawings, if you run across even nits, I'd appreciate 12 you letting me know about it.
13 MR. BEARD: Do you want to know one now?
O
%)
14 MR. BROCK: I know one but you can tell me one.
15 MR. BEARD: Okay.
16 MR. BROCK: Maybe it's the same one.
17 MR. BEARD: Since that's a nit, why don't we 13 declare the meeting to be adjourned and we can correct this
~
19 little typo type error on the drawing separately.
~
20 (Thereupon, at 4:25, the meeting adjourned.)
21 --o0o--
22 23 24 25 l
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43 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER s 2 I, Robert Gordon, an Electronic Reporter, 3 do hereby certify:
4 That I am a disinterested person herein; that "5 the foregoing Nuclear Regulatory Commission interview was 6 recorded and thereafter transcribed by me into 7 typewriting.
8 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 9 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in 10 any way interested in the outcome of said hearing.
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 12 this 6th day of' January, 1986.
13 14 !{ $ ,
ROBERT GORDON 15 Official Reporter 16 17 18 19 20 - -- -
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V PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SutTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 9*/2-3394
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