ML20155H726
| ML20155H726 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Rancho Seco, 05000000 |
| Issue date: | 12/30/1985 |
| From: | Jenks D, Peterson M SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20155H523 | List: |
| References | |
| RTR-NUREG-1195 NUDOCS 8605160374 | |
| Download: ML20155H726 (49) | |
Text
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O Uh11Eu STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ,
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IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
EXAMINATION OF MIKE PETERSON and DOUG JENKS 1
l LOCATION: HERALD, CALIFORNIA PAGES: 1 - 47 DATE: MONDAY, DECEMBER 30, 1985 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
O Offici.11 Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 8605160374 860306 (202)347-3700 PDR ADOCK 05000312 S PDR NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
V I BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
3 4 In the Matter of: )
)
5 AUGMENTATION INSPECTION TEAM )
RANCHO SECO )
6 )
1 8
9 10 EXAMINATION OF MIKE PETERSON 11 AND DOUG JENKS 12 13 MONDAY, DECEMBER 30,- 1985 14 15 16 17 RANCHO SECO NUCLEP.R POWER PLANT 18 14440 TWIN CITIES ROAD 19 HERALD, CALIFORNIA 21 II 23 24 25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A
. SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPNDNC (916) 972 3394
2 (3 1 APPEARANCES 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 GORDON EDISON RON EATON 4 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, DC 5
SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT 6
RON COLOMBO 7 Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station Unit No. 1 8 14440 Twin Cities Road Herald, California 9
10 11 12 ,
13 14 Is 16 17 18
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 94 2 5594
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MR. EDISON: This is Gordon Edison and Ron Eaton 3 from NRC, and we're interviewing Mike Peterson and 4 Doug Jenks a second time on December the 30th.
5 And what we want to do again, our objectives are.
6 trying to factfind and figure out exactly what the 7 sequence of events has been on this event.
3 And I want to ask you some specific questions 9 about your activities in the tank farm, in trying to 10 close, manually close auxiliary feedwater valves.
ti And let me begin -- well, we interviewed you 12 yesterday, not yesterday, but either yesterday or the day 13 before, previously. And you, to the best of your 14 recollection, told us the way you recall the events.
15 And we' ve been getting more information on flows 16 and things like that f rom auxiliary feedwater, and we' re 17 still trying to understand exactly how it went.
13 Now, let me begin with you, Mike --
19 MR. PETERSON: Um-hmm.
20 MR. EDISON: When we talked with you earlier, 21 you indicated -- and feel free to, you know, I know you 22 haven' t had a chance to look at these transcripts yet, but 23 your comment was, you went first to B valve --
24 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
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4
/7 1 MR. EDISON: -- in the aux feed system, to V
2 isolate that valve, the control valve that was open, 3 that's controlled by ICS.
4 And I said in our interview, I said, "When you 5 got to B, it was completely closed?" And you said, 6 "Looking back on it, yes, I think it was." Correct me, 7 you know, if you don' t think that's -- and I said, "Do you 8 think it was fully closed?" I repeat myself. You said, 9 "Yes."
10 I said, "Okay, this is the aux feed control 11 valve in B train, ICS control." And then at one point, 12 "They wanted the valve closed," you said, "T ha t ' s 13 correct." And I said, "That's the one, when you got 1+ there, it was closed." And you said, "Yes."
15 And then I said, "As best as you could tell,"
16 and you said, "Well, I didn' t tell it right away, but I 17 can tell looking back on it." And then your comment was, 18 "When I left, I knew it was closed."
19 And I said, "You did it manually with a 20 handwheel, with a cheater, or how did you - " and you 21 said, "They have a handwheel, and it's a real short span, 22 the valve is a real short span, so you don' t have to turn 23 forever."
24 Okay. So when we talked the other day, your 25 m
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3894
5 1 feeling was that when you got to that B valve, it was 2 closed --
3 MR. PETERSON: Well --
4 MR. EDISON: And when you tried to move it, it 5 wouldn' t move much.
6 MR. PETERSON: Well, maybe what I was doing was 7 thinking more than I was -- I have a little trouble 8 remembering if I looked at the stem position or not.
9 Actually, if you had asked me this ten minutes 10 after I got off shift, I would have said, I closed that 11 valva --
12 MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
13 MR. PETERSON: -- all by myself. And I was the 14 only one who ever closed it.
15 MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
16 MR. PETERSON: Two days later in a meeting, he 17 says he closed the B valve, and I knew he got there before 13 I did, in that area. And he said he'd closed the B valves l
l 19 first. .
20 And I said, "You did?" Because I thought I had 21 closed it.
l 22 MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
23 MR. PETERSON: So looking back on it, I thought, 24 well, maybe, when I got to this thing -- it wasn' t in the 25 neutral position entirely.
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6 1 MR. EDISON: You mean when you got there?
2 MR. PETERSON: Yes, that's correct. It was 3 closer towards the closed position, but it was in between 4 closed and neutral.
5 And in my training with the valve, I know to 6 always leave it in the neutral position.
7 MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
t MR. PETERSON: I thought maybe the valve might 9 not work properly, if it wasn't in the neutral position 10 first.
11 MR. EDISON: Neutral is for ICS control.
12 MR. PETERSON: No. Neutral is for the manual 13 control of the valve. Understand?
14 MR. EATON: So in neutral, you' re neither. open 15 nor closed.
16 MR. PETERSON: You could be in any position.
17 MR. EATON: From a gagging standpoint, let me 18 repeat that --
19 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
20 MR. ED7 SON: But you don' t have a --
21 MR. EATON: From a gagging standpoint, you're in 22 a neutral plane --
23 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
24 MR. EATON: -- that's neither partially open, 25 Partially closed, so --
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7
,q 1 MR. PETERSON: And it was rtot gagged closed on V
2 that gauge.
3 MR. EATOli: Okay. When you --
4 MR. EDISON: But you say from your training, you 5 know to leave it in the neutral positien.
6 MR. PETERSON: Yeah. If I was to be doing a 7 valve lineup or something like that. That's one of the 8 things that I look at.
9 MR. EDISON: You'd leave it in the neutral 10 Position?
11 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
12 MR. EDISON: But then the ICS couldn' t control:
13 i t --
14 MR. PETERSON: The ICS will control it.
15 MR. EATON: Will control it. See, the point 16 being, in the neutral position, you' re talking about a gag
, 17 that's neither gagged open nor gagged shut.
18 So in the neutral position, it totally -- it 19 leaves the valve unencumbered from a gagging standpoint, 20 and it's free to complete work on air signals.
21 MR. EDISON: Okay.
22 MR. PETERSON: Now --
23 MR. EATON: Is that right?
24 MR. PETERSON: That's correct. And after this 25 happened, a couple hours later, when I'm off shift, I PETERS SHORTH AND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5894
8 y think I can look back and see that valve stem position V
2 30 to 40 percent open. However, I'm not real confident 3 with it. I was not at thic time, and I'm still not real 4 confident.
5 But af ter talking with him, I thought, well, 6 maybe I was, in my haste, I thought I closed that valved
. 7 and maybe it was in fact already closed. So that's why I 8 said the things to you. After looking at this graph, I
, can see it's possible that maybe both of us closed.
10 In my logic, I said, we both couldn' t have yy closed the valve. And I was fairly confident that he beat 12 me to it. That's why I said I probably didn' t close the 93 valve.
Q y4 But when I left, I knew that it was closed.
15 Whether I closed it or he closed it, or both of us closed it, IC-y7 MR. EDISON: Okay. Now, looking at our diagram 18 here --
19
. N: Um- h .
20 MR. EDISON: The B valve, the B train, is with the circles on it.
p MR. PETERSON: Okay.
I g MR. EDISON: And it looked like to me, about 22 minutes or so, or three.
3 l
. ON: After four?
25
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9 1 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
2 MR. PETERSON: Okay.
3 MR. EDISON: That there was a valve closure 4 there, at least partially. Would you think that was you, 5 Doug?
6 MR. JENKS: I would imagine so. It would have 7 been about that time. Because when I was notified by 8 Rick Wolfe to go out and close the aux feedwater valves, I 9 was there at that valve within two minutes --
10 MR. EDISON: Okay.
11 MR. JENKS: -- from the time he told me. And I 12 was cranking on it, and I would say I had it closed, 13 probably within two to three minutes --
14 MR. EDISON: Okay.
15 MR. JENKS: --
from the time that I got there.
16 MR. EDISON: And then I noticed the flow comes 17 back up a little when the A valve was closed off, and 13 that's probably just flow redistribution, is my guess.
19 And then it comes back down again on the A valve 20 when open again.
21 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
22 MR. EDISON: Or when the flow went up again. So 23 that's probably -- then about 4:33 or four, it looks like 24 B valve was closed further.
25 MR. PETERSON: Okay.
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10 1 MR. EDISON: Would you guess that might have 2 been you, then, coming in behind him?
3 MR. PETERSON: There is a way to tell, if 4 everyone's going to be confused about this. And I tried 5 to check it out with security today.
6 MR. EDISON: Uh-huh.
7 MR. PETERSON: I was going to try to find out if a they had any record of when I carded in through two 9 different zones, which I carded in and out, and if he did 10 the same thing --
11 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
12 MR. PETERSON: They couldn' t give ne those 13 records at that time, because they didn't know where they 14 were. They think they're in this building.
15 MR. EDISON: But those will have times on them, 16 huh?
17 MR. JEN KS : Um-hmm.
13 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
19 MR. JEN KS : Yeah.
20 MR. PETERSON: And that would give me a rough 21 idea, if this thing is accurate to the real time, and so 22 is their card reader, it would give you a pretty rough 23 idea of where I fitted into this position.
24 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
25 MR. EDISON: Okay. Now, as I recall, when the O
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11 1 event started, Mike, you were initially sent to the 2 turbine deck.
3 MR. PETERSON: Well, I was told to come to the 4 control room. And I did a few things before I did that.
5 MR. EDISON: Okay, you went to the control --
6 MR. PETERSON: Then I went to the turbine bypass 7 valves.
3 MR. EDISON: Then you went to the turbine bypass 9 valves.
.10 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
11 MR. EDISON: So how long did you spend in the 12 control room, before you went to the turbine bypass 13 valves?
14 MR. PETERSON: A few seconds.
15 MR. EDISON: A few seconds.
16 MR. PETERSON: Five seconds.
17 MR. EDISON: Okay. In the control room.
13 MR. PETERSON: Yeah. I walked in, they told me 19 to get down to the turbine bypass valves, isolate them.
20 MR. EDISON: Okay. So you went down there and 21 you worked on those. And that took you five minutes, ten 22 minutes?
g3 MR. PETERSON: Ten. - -
24 MR. EDISON: A good ten minutes.
25 MR. PETERSON: Maybe more.
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12 1 MR. EDISON: Okay. That takes us to about 4:25 b.A 2 or even 4:30.
3 MR. PETERSON: Well, I spent a good five minutes 4 from the time the trip actually occurred, until the time I 5 got to the control room, because I did the diesel 6 generators and polisher panel, and the fire alarm panel.
7 And then climbing three flights of stairs.
8 MR. EDISON: Okay. So by the time you --
9 MR. PETERSON: So maybe it could be --
10 MR. EDISON: -
got to the B valve --
11 MR. PETERSON: -- 4: 35, right around there. It 12 could be very well into that.
13 MR. EDISON: Okay. So that may be you getting 14 to the valve --
15 MR. PETERSON: Closing it again, or further.
16 MR. EDISON: Okay, now, when we talked before, 17 Mike -- let's see.
13 MR. EATON: While he's looking for what he wants 19 to get, I just want to talk about those valves for a i
20 minute. I fully understand the gag aspect of it.
1 21 What kind of valves are those, other than the 22 fact that they're air-operated? Globe, gate?
23 MR. PETERSON: I suupose it's a gate valve, I'm i
l 24 not sure, though.
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25 MR. JENKS: I am not positive, but I think it is O
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13 1 probably a globe, bq 2 MR. EATON: Would you --
3 MR. JENKS: Because it is used for throttling 4 purposes.
5 MR. EATON: Okay.
6 MR. GENKS: And the globe is better for 7 throttling, especially under high-pressure conditions, 8 than the gate.
9 MR. EATON: I would tend to agree with you --
10 MR. JENKS: Because the gate will tend to 11 chatter.
12 MR. PETERSON: That's the way it ought to be --
13 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
14 MR. EATON: When you think about it, yeah.
15 Okay, so I tend to think that it's a globe valve as 16 Opposed to a gate valve, which is used for isolation.
17 For instance, the ones downstream, the ones that 13 you tried to gag, like the zero-zero or the zero-six-three 19 Valve --
20 MR. PETERSON: Six-three --
21 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
i 22 MR. PETERSON: -- correct, yes.
23 MR. EATON: I would think that's a gate valve.
l 24 MR. PETERSON: Yes.
l 25 MR. EATON: If you look at that valve, let's say b) v l
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14 1 you look at the 063 valve. Can you tell me by looking at 2 it, whether or not it's a gate valve or globe valve?
3 MR. JENKS: From the outside, it would be hard 4 to tell, because there's a lot of insulation over the 5 valve, covering the shape of the body.
6 MR. EATON: Okay.
7 MR. JENKS: If you can see the shape of the
. 8 body, it's easy to tell.
9 MR. EATON: Okay.
10 MR. JENKS: But with all of the lagging and so 11 on around it, which is quite large, with all the 12 insulation under it, it's harder to tell. Although I 13 believe it is a gate valve.
O i. R. EATON: Okay.
15 MR. JENKS: We usually use gate valves as 16 isolation valves. They'r'e not designed for throttling 17 purposes, just open or closed.
18 MR. EATON: Straight isolation, okay.
19 MR. JENKS: Right.
20 MR. EATON: Or full flow.
21 MR. JEN KS : Um-hmm.
22 MR. EATON: Weren' t you 'the one that tried to 23 shut the 0637 - - -
24 MR. JENKS: Yes. I tried to shut the 063.
25 MR. EATON: Okay. Could you tell whether or not l
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15 1 there was a lot of flow going through it by noise or N'3 J
2 vibration or feeling, anything --
3 MR. JENKS: Well, there was a lot of noise in 4 the area at the time --
5 MR. EATON: Okay.
6 MR. JENKS: And things, also with the steam also 7 blowing off f rom the Terry turbine, that makes a lot of 8 noise out there, too.
9 MR. EATON: Yeah, okay.
10 MR. JENKS: And so, from that, I couldn'.t tell, yg N ow --
12 MR. EATON: Did you think about what type of ig valve it was, when you were trying to close it?
14 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
15 MR. EATON: Okay. Did you think it was a gate 16 valve when you were trying to close it?
17 MR. JENKS: Yeah, um-hmm.
18 MR. EATON: If there was a lot of flow, whether 39 or not the valve was binding for other reasons, would you 20 be surprised if it took you a long time to close it, or an 21 excessive amount of force to close it --
22 MR. JENKS: Well, I would expect -- with a lot f fl w through the valve with_the high pressures, in 23 excess of 1,000 pounds, it would be a hard' valve to close, 24 25 yes.
A V
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16 1
MR. EATON: Okay. and you base that on the fact 2 of the valve construction, as opposed to -- I mean, by 3 virtue it's a gate valve, would be harder to close than a 4 globe valve? Would you make that distinction?
5 MR. JENKS: Perhaps only towards the end.
6 Actually, towards the beginning, when you' re first 4
7 starting, it shouldn' t have been that much stress on it, 8 really. .
9 MR. EATON: Okay. That brings up the next --
10 MR. JENKS: Shouldn' t be that hard to start.
Il MR. EATON: That's a good point. Because that 12 brings up the next point.
15 MR. JENKS: Because the first couple of turns, O i4 you're not reducine f1ew, but very nee 11eib1e.
15 MR. EATON: Okay. So then if you looked at a 16 plat of a curve with valve travel --
17 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
18 MR. EATON: -- with relationship to flow, you 19 would not expect to see -- is it a linear curve?
l 20 MR. JENKS: No.
l 21 MR. EATON: Okay.
22 MR. JENKS: No, it is not.
25 MR. EATON: Okay, all right..
l 24 MR. EDISON: Doug, now, when I talked with you l
25 yesterday, whichever it was, the day before --
4 i
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- 17 1 MR. JENKS: Yes, it was yesterday, Sunday.
2 MR. EDISON: You made the following comment when 3 we were talking about this timing of trying to close the 4 valves.
5 You said -- I guess you had been working on the 6 A valve, and then you went to the isolation valve, the
-7 FWS --
8 MR. JENKS: Correct. After I checked with the 9 control room.
10 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
11 MR. JENKS: I told them that the A feedwater
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12 valve had popped back open after I had it almost closed.
13 MR. EDISON: Right.
14 MR. JENKS: And I was told to go to the manual 15 isolation valve.
16 MR. EDISON: Right. And so you went there, and 17 you couldn' t crack that one open either --
18 MR. JENKS: Yeah. I had a small cheater at 19 first --
20 MR. EDISON: And you called the control room --
21 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
22 MR. EDISON: And just about that time was when 23- they said, wait- a minute, go back and undo them. Right?
f 24 MR. JENKS: Right.
25
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18 1 MR. EDISON: Okay. And you had a comment here 2 that said, 3 "Although before I could undo 4 them, I met liike Peterson. And they'd 5 gotten ahold of him, perhaps a minute 6 or so ahead of me.
7 "And he had just gotten through.
3 I met him coming down the stairs, he 9 had just got through un-isolating 10 the B, although something strange.
11 "I had talked to him later, and he 12 said that when he got to the B, it was 13 open."
14 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm. That's what I had thought 15 he had said, yeah.
16 MR. EDISON: And so that's what's conf using me.
17 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
18 MR. EDISON: You thought he told you it was open 19 when he got to the B --
20 MR. JENKS: Well, he said that he'd closed it 21 again.
22 MR. EDISON: Yeah. But when I'd talked with l 23 you, you thought it was closed when you got there, l
24 MR. PETERSON: No, I made the deduction that it 25 must have been closed there. Like I said earlier in this O
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19 1 conversation, I think, right after this happened, I 2 thought I closed the valve. No strings attached.
3 MR. EDISON: You were able to move it, though --
4 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
5 MR. EDISON: The B valve. The first valve you 6 worked on --
7 MR. PETERSON: That's correct.
3 MR. EDISON: You were able to move it. But you 9 didn' t have to turn it very f ar. Is that --
10 MR. PETERSON: Well, you don' t have to turn 13 those too far anyway. And I --
12 MR. EDISON: When you say "too far," how many 33 turns would you say --
0 14 *a ezrzason= on, aoa'e xao -
15 MR. EDISON: Full open to full close.
16 MR. PETERSON: Three or four, I'm just guessing 17 right now. But it seemed like it was about the normal is amount of turns from the neutral position to gag it 19 closed.
20 MR. EDISON: See, what I'm wondering here is, if 21 Doug closed it maybe 60 percent of the flow, not
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22 necessarily the valve distance --
23 MR. PETERSON: Um-hmm.
24 MR. EDISON: You know, I don' t think this thing 25 is linear. I suspect that if you close a valve half-way, O
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20 p
v I that you' ve still got almost f ull flow, is what I suspect.
2 So you might have closed the valve 80 percent of 3 the way or something, or even 90, and still had 40 percent 4 of the flow, okay.
5 And then you come along, or you know, even maybe 6 90, there's only ten per. int left to close, to bring all 7 the rest of the flow down, because it's really screaming 8 through that last little opening. And so if you just turn 9 it a little ways, you don' t move the valve much, but you 10 really make the flow drop a lot, the last little bit.
11 And I'm trying, I'm wondering if, when you came 12 to the valve, and you thought it was already closed, and 13 so maybe it was 90 percent c1'osed, or 85, you know, almost O i4 c1osed --
, 15 MR. PETERSON: But I didn' t necessarily think it 16 was closed. I don' t know if you' re getting my point here.
17 MR. EDISON: Okay.
18 MR. PETERSON: I didn' t. When I went there at 19 that time, I did not think the valve was closed.
20 MR. EDISON: You didn't.
21 MR. PETERSON: That's why -- I would have lef t 22 in a minute, a second, if I thought it was closed.
23 MR. EDISON: Okay, but later --
24 MR. PETERSON: That's why I jumped on it.
25 MR. EDISON: -- you talked with Doug --
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21's 1 MR. PETERSON: Um-hmm, that's right.
2 MR. EDISON: And he told you that he'd closed 3 it.
4 MR. PETERSON: So I thought, well, maybe I was 5 wro'ng, then. Maybe I came up to a valve that was already 6 closed, und in my haste to get it to this neutral position 7 and then gag it back real quick --
8 MR. EDISON: Okay.
9 MR. PETERSON: -- that I didn' t do it any good.
10 But I might have. I didn' t hear the extreme flow on B 11 that I did on A.
12 MR. EDISON: Okay. -
13 MR. JENKS: If I might make a point, the thing O i4 ie eieo, when xike wee eoins to the B ve1ve, he wee .
15 expecting to see it open. Because he didn' t know that I 16 had been there.
17 MR. EDISON: Okay, okay. And now, when you 18 closed it, it's possible that you closed that valve like 19 90 percent or something --
20 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
21 MR. EDISON: Or even 95, and thought it was I .
22 closed.
23 MR. JENKS: Because as I cranked it, I saw the 24 stem go all the way down, and the handle would not turn 25 any more.
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22 1 MR. EDISON: And it wouldn' t turn.
2 MR. JENKS : It stopped. It was going nice and 4 1
l 3 smooth, it was firm, but it was smooth. And then it just 4 stopped, and it wouldn' t go any more.
5 MR. PETERSON: Isn' t it also possible that that 6 valve came back open when he was closing A?
7 MR. EDISON: Well, we sure would like to know 8 that.
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. EDISON: It's possible --
11 MR. JENKS: That's something that I had thought 12 about also.
13 MR. EDISON: It's possible, but it doesn' t show O i4 og on the f1ow, you see --
15 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
16 MR. EDISON: The flow diagram off the computer 17 here shows that it was never -- it doesn' t look like the 18 flow was ever shut off on B. On the first --
19 MR. JEN KS : Yeah.
20 MR. EDISON: You know, on the first try.
21 MR. PETERSON: Uh-huh.
22 MR. JENKS : Uh-huh. -
23 MR. EDISON: No.w, maybe the computer couldn't 24 keep up with it, and maybe that thing spiked all the way 25 down and right back up real quickly --
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23 ,
1 I MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
2 MR. EDISON: There's always that possibility, 3 too. But it looks like, and if you knock the flow down 60, 4 70 percent, down to about 30 or 40 percent of its flow, 5 that's most of the valve travel probably.
6 So I think that kind of explains, you know --
7 the reason I was concerned, because there seemed to be a 8 conflict. When we talked the other day, you thought that 9 the B valve was closed when you first got there, or you 10 mentioned it was.
11 MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
12 MR. EDISON: And Mike said he thought that you 18 thought it had been opened, and then you had to close it.
-O i. MR. >ETERSON= Yeah.
15 MR. EDISON: And it looks like maybe it's some 16 of both, okay.
17 MR. PETERSON: Well, in my mind, I pictured a 18 stem position, but then I tried to convince myself, I 19 think, that I never looked at the stem position.
'~ ~
' 20 Because I thought, how could I possibly have saw 21 (sic) it at 40 percent, if he had already closed it.
22 MR. EDISON: Yeah. But you don' t remember it 23 moving much. The handwheel. Did you use a handwheel or 24 cheater?
l 15 O
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24 p 1 MR. PETERSON: A normal amount -- my hands. A 4
y 2 normal amount.
3 MR. EDISON: A normal amount.
4 MR. PETERSON: The normal amount that it would 5 take to close that, I felt like that that's about what I 6 turned it.
7 MR. EDISON: Somehwere --
8 MR. EATON: This is after you had already said 9 you had closed it.
10 MR. JENKS: Yes.
11 MR.-EATON: Thinking about that valve popping 12 open on yoa --
13 ,
MR. JENKS: Okay, now this -- it was the A that i
O i6 goggea egen, not the -
15 MR. EDISON: How many turns do you think it 16 takes to close the valve from full open to full closed, 17 Doug?
18 MR. JENKS: You know, this is the first time I 19 had actually cranked on this valve. This is not a valve
- 20 that we normally go out and practice on.
21 MR. EDISON: Well, let me ask you, before you 22 answer, are the A and B valves the same?
25 MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
24 MR. JENKS: Visually, they're the same, yeah.
25 They're supposed to the same type valves.
O l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973*S894
, , - . - . , - _ - - - , - - - .,,.--.------w, --- n - - , - - - - - - . - - - - - - - - - - -
25 1 MR. EDISON: Same manufacturer, same size, okay.
- 2 MR. JENKS
- Same structure.
3 MR. EDISON: Now, roughly how many turns do you 4 feel it takes, from full open to full closed?
5 MR. JENKS: From what I was cranking, and f rom 6 what I remember doing --
7 MR. EDISON: Ballpark, you know. You dori' t have 8 to be precise.
9 MR. JENKS: It seemed to me it would be about 15 10 to 20 revolutions of the handwheel.
11 MR. PETERSON: Whoo. See now, I would have 12 guessed four or five.
13 MR. JENKS: That's what I was ' thinking.
O i. *a. so 80== vou ou1a aeve sue ea tour or 15 five.
16 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
17 MR. PETERSON: So I don' t know.
18 MR. EDISON: And is that based on previous 19 experience --
20 MR. PETERSON: Um-hmm. -- -
21 MR. EDISON: Or based on that night's 22 experience ~f 23 MR. PETERSON: Well, I knew it didn' t. take too._ . .
24 long before it got there. I knew that it wasn' t going to 25 be a ten-minute valve.
!O 1
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- , - - - - . - - , . . - -, - - -- , . , . - - - - - - - - - , , - - - - , - - - - ~ - - - - -
26 1
MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
O 2 MR. PETERSON: And when I closed it down, maybe 3 five turns, I could be wrong, all right. This is not one 4 of the things I'm positive about.
5 When I closed it down, I felt that I'd gone 6 through the stem travel of that.
7 MR. EDISON: Okay.
8 MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
9 MR. JENKS: And from my part, I could be 10 exaggerating on the number of turns, possibly --
11 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
12 MR. JENKS: Because each time, I'd only get 13 maybe a sixth or a quarter of a turn, and each time --
O '4 aa >z'sasoa: ota vou use cae ter o= >>
15 MR. JENKS: On B, I did not use a cheater, no.
16 MR. PETERSON: That's the one we' re talking 17 about right now --
18 MR. EDISON: Yes.
19 MR. JENKS: Yes. I did not use a cheater on 20 that.
21 MR. PETERSON: And it took you 15 turns, though.
22 MR. EDISON: So you might have turned it 15 25 turns --
24 MR. JENKS: Possibly, yeah. It may not have 25 been that many, but it seemed like it.
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (996) 973 3394~
-_. __. l-
27 p 1 MR. EDISON: And got it down to 40 percent flow G'
2 or something, and then you turned it the last four or five 3 turns --
4 MR. PETERSON: Uh-huh.
5 MR. JENKS: Uh-huh.
6 MR. EDISON: -- and finished it off.
7 MR. PETERSON: It's possible. We could go out 8 there and stroke.the valve, and see how long it takes.
9 That might help a little, too --
10 MR. EDISON: We don' t want to do that right now.
11 (Laughter.)
12 MR. PETERSON: I know, yeah.
13 MR. EDISON: These valves are going to be on a O i4 freeze 11et for e 11ttie whi1e-15 MR. PETERSON: Sure.
16 MR. JENKS: Uh-huh.
17 MR. EDISON: Now then, you went to the A valve,
- 18 Doug.
19 MR. JENKS: Then I went to the A side. Right, I 20 had to run down the stairs, around the fence, around the 21 CST, then up on the platform to the A valve.
22 MR. EDISON: You went to the A valve -- let's 23 see. Here is some comment we had, and now we're talking 24 about A valve, I guess.
25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPNoNE (9ts) s7s eas4
- ~ , - - ---
1 Can you go off the record, I'm looking for 2 something here.
3 (Thereupon a discussion was held off the 4 record.)
5 MR. EDISON: When you got the A valve, and it 6 progressively got harder to turn --
7 MR. JENKS: Correct.
8 MR. EDISON: -- by hand --
9 MR. JENKS : Yes.
10 MR. EDISON: And you went about half-way, I l
11 guess, or -- roughly, about --
12 MR. JENKS: About half-way of the stem travel.
13 MR. EDISON: Which is like --
0 14 . MR. JENKS:
~
There was about, oh, two to two and 15 a half inches of valve stem that are visible, up, that I 16 could see had come up.
17 MR. EDISON: Okay.
18 MR. JENKS: And I had gotten that about half-way 19 down --
20 MR. EDISON: And you guess that was maybe ten 21 turns or so?
22 MR. JENKS: It may have been that much, but it i
23 may not have. I could only turn this about one-sixth of a 24 turn, each time I'd get ahold of the valve.
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29
,q 1 MR. EDISON: But this is before you had the V
2 cheater.
3 MR. JENKS: This was before I had the cheater.
4 MR. EDISON: Okay.
5 MR. JENKS: And then I ran to the CST and got a 6 small cheater off of the makeup valve there --
7 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
3 MR. JENKS: And came back, and --
9 MR. EDISON: How long did that take? To go to 10 the --
11 MR. JENKS: I'd say less than a minute.
12 MR. EDISON: Less than a minute to go get the 13 cheater and get back.
14 MR. JENKS: It's a minute and back, yes.
15 MR. EDISON: A minute over and a minute back?
16 MR. JENKS: Right. Total, I ran all the way. I 17 ran over and a ran back.
18 MR. EDISON: Okay. This is on A.
19 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
20 MR. PETERSON: It could be right here.
23 MR. EDISON: A way to fix the time would be a l 22 Point in that little blurb down there --
23 MR._JENKS: Yeah.
24 MR. EDISON: -- about 28 minutes, 27 minutes --
25 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO, CAL 8FORNIA 95825 TELEPNDNE (916) 972 8894
30 1 MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
O ' 2 MR. EDISON: And so you might have been down at 3 90 percent closed, or 95 percent closed --
4 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
5 MR. EDISON: And you got that cheater, came 6 back, and put that thing on. Now, how far did you take it 7 with the cheater?
8 MR. JENKS : I moved it about two more 9 revolutions of the handle.
10 MR. EDISON: Um-hmm.
11 MR. JENKS: Of the handwheel.
12 MR. EDISON: Okay.
13 MR. JENKS: And I had, well, it looked to be O i4 bout a te to rive-ete nts iaca or te ue vet-15 MR. EDISON: Okay.
~
16 MR. JENKS: That was the uncorroded portion of 17 the stem.
18 MR. EDISON: Uh-huh, 19 MR. JENKS: That was the portion that is usually 20 down in the valve bottom --
21 MR. EDISON: You had the cheater on it --
l 22 MR. JENKS: Yes.
23 MR. EDISON: -- when that thing let go and give l 24 the wham.
25 MR. JENKS: It went pop, yeah. Went wham.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95R25 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5394
31 q 1 MR. EDISON: Okay.
V 2 MR. JENKS: And that's when I got off and called 3 the control room.
4 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
5 MR. JENKS: I looked at it -- after it went 6 wham, I backed up and looked at it, to see if anything was 7 going to be leaking. I almost expected the thing to fly 3 apart.
9 MR. EDISON: Okay, now, did you still have your 10 cheater on it, working on it, when it went?
11 MR. JENKS: Yeah. I was hanging onto it when it 12 went.
13 MR. EDISON: Okay.
14 MR. JENKS: It want bang. And then I backed off 15 and looked at it.
16 MR. EDISON: How long do you suppose you had 4
17 that cheater on it, entire -- after you went to the CST, 18 got the cheater, came back, how long were you cheating 19 on it?
20 (Laughter . )
21 MR. EATON: Poor choice of words.
22 MR. JENKS: I Nas cranking on it with the 23 cheater for --
24 MR. EDISON: Several minutes?
25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95335 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
32 g 1 MR. JENKS: No. Perhaps a minute, minute and a V
2 half.
3 MR. EDISON: Okay.
4 MR. JENKS: I was trying to go as fast as I 5 could, because I knew it was important to get the valve 6 closed. So I was trying to hurry.
7 I was putting as much force into it as I could, 8 to get the valve closed. The handwheels on these are 9 vertical, rather than horizontal, the way many of the 10 other valves are.
11 MR. EDISON: Uh-huh.
12 MR. PETERSON: They're horizontal, not vertical.
13 MR. EDISON: Now, if you look at the --
O i4 an 3="xs= *ae a a aee12 15 MR. PETERSON: (Indicating) Goes like this, 16 right?
17 MR. JENKS: (Indicating) Oh, yeah. The face of 18 the wheel is vertical.
t 19 MR. PETERSON: Right. Oh, okay.
l 20 MR. JENKS: The face of the wheel is vertical.
I 21 MR. PETERSON: (Indicating) Shaf t of the
~
22 handle --
23 MR. EATON: Yeah. Because, see, he was making 24 comments to go like this. So I assumed it was a --
25 MR. PETERSON: Correct.
O t
'%Y PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATauN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE EulTE A SACRAMCNTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
33 1 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
'v 2 MR. EATON: -- vertical --
3 MR. JENKS: (Indicating) Yeah, like this. With 4 one foot up on a --
5 MR. EATON: I mean, the handwheel vertical.
6 MR. JENKS: -- steel beam behind it.
7 MR. EDISON: Doug, if you'd look at this 8 chart --
9 MR. JENK5: Yes.
10 MR. EDISON: And look at the A, with the boxes 11 on it --
12 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
13 MR. EDISON: It looks like you' re closing it O i4 ao a, ox r-15 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm, right.
16 MR. EDISON: Around 26 minutes, 27 minutes 17 there.
13 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
19 MR. EDISON: You get it down there about, it 20 looks like about point one flow.
21 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
22 MR. EDISON: And there's a little plateau there, 23 looks like it's a half a minute or something.
l 24 MR. JENKS : Um-hmm.
25 MR. EDISON: And maybe that's you running over l O l
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SUITE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
34 g 1 to get the cheater and coming back.
L I 2 MR. JENKS : Um-hmm. j 3 fir. EDISON: Then applying the cheater, and it 4 looks like it takes it right down to zero. And then it 5 jumps right back up.
6 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
7 MR. EDISON: Not too far, though, and then holds a there for about a couple of minutes, and then lets go, 9 bang. Looks like it flew wide open just suddenly there at 10 30 minutes, 4:30.
11 Is there a shear pin or something like that in 12 those valves that could have sheared --
13 MR. JENKS: I don' t know.
14 MR. EDISON: Youu don' t know how that is --
15 MR. PETERSON: You' d have to ask --
16 MR. JENKS: The mechanics would be the one to 17 ask on that.
13 MR. PETERSON: Sounds logical, but --
19 MR. JENKS : As to what could do it.
20 MR. EDISON: Looks like it went down to zero 21 flow, and then jumped back up to some minor flow, and held 22 there. Like something had happened right, you know, the 23 moment you got it down to zero flow --
24 MR. JEN KS : Um-hmm.
25 MR. EDISON: Like something had happened.
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 4MERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5894
35 1 Jumped up and held there for a couple of minutes and then 2 let go.
3 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
4 MR. EDISON: Like something had slipped there, 5 or -- I don' t know. But it appears that for that moment, 6 those two minutes or three minutes there, you had it 7 closed --
8 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
9 MR. EDISON: -- before it banged open. That 10 explains the chart here.
11 And the interesting thing is, then, it 12 apparently didn' t damage the valve too much, because when 13 ICS came on, they were able to close it.
14 MR. JENKS: Um-hmm.
15 MR. EATON: Well, wait a second. ICS -- you're 16 dealing with this the manual, the gearing and all that 17 kind of stuff --
13 MR. PETERSON: Correct.
19 MR. EATON: ICS works independent of that.
20 MR. PETERSON: Independent of that, yes. ,
21 MR. EATON: If there's a shear pin there, then 22 all that tells me, unless I'm incorrect,-if there is a 23 shear pin, it's probably related to the bubble gears. and 24 gearing of the manual override, which renders that aspect 25 of it totally inoperative, but in doing that, allows O
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36 1 automatic or air actuation, because there's no manual 2 engagement as a result of the shear pin.
3 MR. PETERSON: It would seem like you wouldn' t i
4 have that force any more on the handwheel, if you sheared 5 it.
6 MR EATON: Yeah, well --
7 MR. PETERSON: There was extreme force still.
8 MR. EATON: Unless the shear pin, in doing that, i
9 prevented any movement whatsoever. In other words, it 10 hurt those gears, it disengaged it somehow -- well, you 11 know, this is such speculation --
12 MR. PETERSON: Yeah.
33 MR. EATON: The real thing to do is take a look 14 at the tech manual.
15 MR. EDISON: But the valve inside the pipe 16 Probably wasn' t damaged, because it was able to close off t7 flow later with ICS.
18 MR. JENKS: Yeah.
19 MR. PETERSON: This is where I have a problem
- ~
yo right here, after it pops open with this graph and what 9
4 21 you're suggesting is, as I got over to the A, and I think
! 22 Doug -- well, I guess af ter you popped, you didn' t mess
- 23 with it anymore.
24 But when I got over to A, again, I find this 25 neutral not in the proper position, and I'm wondering O
l j PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTD. LAUFORNIA .5555
. m. D ~ . < , , 5 > ,, . . ..
37 1 what's going on. Because I still haven' t seen Doug yet.
2 MR. JENKS: Right. Because at this time he 3 didn' t know where I had gone to any of the valves.
4 MR. PETERSON: So at this point, I start to 5 crank --
6 MR. EDISON: You'd find neutral in closed.
7 MR. PETERSON: I find it in between neutral and g closed --
9 MR. EDISON: In between.
10 MR. PETERSON: -- again, closer to --
33 MR. EDISON: _W hich is where he moved it to work 12 on it with the cheater.
33 MR. PETERSON: Closer to neutral --
14 MR. JENKS : Right.
15 MR. PETERSON: -- actually, though. And I start 16 to crank down on this thing, and I don' t get f ar at all.
17 And I got this resistance again. However --
18 MR. EDISON: You did start to crank down on it?
g9 MR. PETERSON: Yes. And that's why I see a 20 straight path here. They haven' t got ICS back, because I 21 hear the flow through there.
22 And if they' ve got ICS back, unless it took them 23 a while to get over there --
24 MR. EDISON: Which straight path are you talking 25 about?
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38 1 MR. PETERSON: The straight path at the top 2 of A.
3 MR. EDISON: Well now, you see it wasn' t 4 straight there. That's off-scale. And the recorder only 5 goes up that far, and then it just goes --
i 6 MR. PETERSON: Okay, but it may be --
7 MR. EDISON: -- along. So it went much higher 3 ,than that.
9 MR. PETERSON: It may be off-scale, but one jo would think that I could have brought it down on-scale 13 with the crank and what I was doing with it.
12 MR. EDISON: Were you moving it?
- 13 MR. PETERSON
- I was getting it a ways, and then
- 14 you could hear the flow get worse and worse, and I'm 15 really leaning into it.
16 And I had a cheater up there with me, and I put 17 it on there, but I didn' t give it much torque at all.
18 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
19 MR. PETERSON: Because I could tell someting was 20 going wrong here, you know. And at that point, I tried to 21 set a thing with the manual auto on the side that we 22 talked about.
23 .MR. EDISON: Well, if the scale went higher, we 24 might have seen some movement or --
25 MR. PETERSON: Maybe.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER ORIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 .
TELEPHONE (916) 972 8894 e r- .--. . , ~ , - , - , . - ..,.,,.-,,-,,----.,-.-....-_--.--,._,.--,,,--,n.-.,,,,_...,_,--,,,,_n-. - . . - . . _ , - - - - - - - , , , . , - - . - - - -- ,
39 1 MR. EDISON: --
or maybe a flow from what you
'-O 2 were doing.
3 MR. PETERSON: Maybe it wasn' t affecting it 4 at all.
5 MR. EDISON: When this says off-scale, let me 6 ask John --
7 MR. COLOMBO: Ron.
g MR. EDISON: Ron Colombo, who happens to be 9 here. This is the computer that's cutting off here, is 10 that right?
yy MR. COLOMBO: The computer inputs do not. read -
12 higher than that, although the flow could be a lot higher.
33 but the signal at the output of the computer, that's O 34 maximum. So yeah, the flow indeed, and reality could be 15 much higher.
16 MR. EDISON: Would there be any indication of 17 that flow on a strip chart or a recorder or anywhere? Not i
is necessarily in the computer, that we could look and see g, how the flow actually behaved in that range?
20 MR. COLOMBO: We'd have to go in and look at the 21 raw data.
22 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
y MR. COLOMBO: We might be able to retrieve some __
24 raw data.
25 MR. EDISON: Okay.
l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A EACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
40 1 MR. COLOMBO: Yeah.
O 2 MR. EDISON: We might want to do that. And then 3 I think I begin to understand now this graph.
4 And then, it looks like at about 18 minutes, 5 4:18 or so, when both trains spiked downwards to about 6 40.4 in the flow, that's probably where the SFAS valves 7 were closed, and you had an initial shutoff of aux feed, a until those valves were closed. ,
9 And then, of course, the flow redistributed 10 right back over through the ICS valves and shot right back 11 up again.
12 MR. PETERSON: Yeah. It was suggested that 13 there was a power switchover or something - .I don' t O i4 ==aer== =a-15 MR. EDISON: I think that's the timing. Is that 16 about 4:18? I think that's on the --
17 MR. PETERSON: That could be SFAS, yes.
13 MR. EDISON: Let's see. What does our statement 19 of events currently say for the SFAS closing? 4:17.
20 MR. PETERSON: Yeah, I guess A could be real 21 high, because that is so much flow. It may be well off of 22 that chart. And you might see a whole bunch of --
23 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
i 24 MR. PETERSON: -- variations up there during 25 that period.
I
(
l v
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. EUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894 L
41 y MR. EDISON: But there before 4:20, where you V have the spike downwards of both trains. I suspect that's the SFAS --
3 MR. PETERSON: Sure.
4 MR. EDISON: -- valves going closed. And it would take a little bit of time for the flow to redistribute f rom the SFAS line back over to the ICS line.
MR. PETERSON: Well, something else you might want to check out is, did the pumps ever shut off, in between when they started and then it got SFAS? No?
MR. COLOMBO: Not that I know of.
11 MR. PETERSON: Okay.
MR. EDISON: Well, I think when you get an SFAS signal, the motor of the pump trips off --
MR. PETERSON: That's what I was thinking there --
16 17 MR. EDISON: -- and then it comes back on. But that was earlier on, that was right after the trip.
MR. PETERSON: Okay.
MR. EDISON: And so when you' ve got the SFAS --
11 you've already got the SFAS, as this curve is rising there, as the flow's going up. And then the reason it spikes down is because they shut it off. I think they closed that 'SFAS valve of f, those two SFAS valves of f.
24 25 m
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42 g 1 Okay. I guess I'm about through asking b 2 questions, unless you have any further enes, Ron.
3 MR. EATON: Nope. Looks good by me.
4 MR. EDISON: Do any of you three people want to 5 add anything, or have any thoughts --
6 MR. COLOMBO: Well, since I'm asked. One other 7 thing that complicates the operation of this is, the a Bailey valves are air-operated valves.
9 With a loss of ICS, you've got air going to 10 those valves, telling those valves to open. Because a 11 loss of ICS, I imagine, is going to mid-position, so 12 you've got air going to those valves telling them to open.
33 These gentlemen are trying to close the valve 34 with air going on it --
15 MR. PETERSON: Against --
16 MR. COLOMBO: -- and they're fighting the air 17 also. So you leave a valve, go away, come back, who knows 13 where that valve is, because the air is still underneath 19 that, trying to tell it to go to mid-position.
20 MR. EDISON: I see. Is that air from an 21 accumulator, or is that from a compressor that's working?
22 MR. COLOMBO: It's f rom both. Those valves do gg have accumulators on them. Am I wrong?
24 MR. PETERSON: I'm not sure.
- l 25 MR. COLOMBO
- I think they do have accumulators i
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3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A DACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95555 TELEPHONE (914) 973 8894
43 1 on them, two tanks, I think, somewheres down below. -
v 2 MR. JENKS: In any case, they're on --
3 MR. COLOMBO: Yeah.
4 MR. JENKS: --
instrument air, which was still 5 active. And --
g MR. EDISON: And you' re trying to go against the 7 air with --
3 MR. COLOMBO: Right. So you think you might 9 have it pretty well snug, where you know, you're
! 10 compressing the air down in that lower diaphragm --
33 MR. EDISON: Yeah.
12 MR. COLOMBO: Go away, and another guy comes g3 back there, and who knows where, it might be even up, 14 because it could lift it up against this mechanical -- and 15 you're still fighting two forces.
16 MR. EDISON: Or the mechanical could be slipping 17 or ratcheting, gg MR. COLOMBO: It's still trying to push the i, valve up all the time.
20 MR. PETERSON: Okay. That --
21 MR. COLOMBO: That is also another complicating
~
22 factor in what we're trying to look at here.
23 MR. EDISON: I think it's more of a clarifying 24 factor than a complicating factor, to help us understand 25 what's going on.
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i 44 1 MR. EATON: Instrument air is what, 100 pounds?
O 2 MR. PETERSON: Well, it probably reduced down 5 to --
4 MR. COLOMBO: Thirty?
5 MR. PETERSON: Fifteen, maybe.
g MR. EDISON: I think this is an important point.
7 Because what this is telling us, in an event of this kind 8 in any plant, where that ICS is out of power, and the air 9 is trying to make those valves open, it's going to be very go difficult to manually close them.
- 3 MR. EATON
- Wait a second.
12 MR. EDISON: Because you' re fighting the air.
33 MR. EATON: Wait a second. It's reduced f rom O 34 ab ut a hundred pounds from the discharge of the 15 instrument air compressors or whatever, down to about 15 16 pounds top rate to operate these valves?
37 MR. PETERSON: No. I take that back now. I'm gg probably thinking of the control. But it's got to be g9 reduced down, I would think.
1 20 MR. EATON: To about what, do you think?
21 MR. COLOMBO: I think to around 30 pounds or so.
22 MR. PETERSON: About 30 pounds through the instruments to the inlet, and then --
25 24 MR. EATON: Okay.
l 25 O
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45 1 MR. PETERSON: --
the amount of air pressure 2 that is given --
3 MR. COLOMBO: Is proportional.
4 MR. PETERSON: Or that is put out to the output, 5 right, is proportional to how much the valve is going to 6 be open.
7 MR. EATON: Okay, I roger that. That makes a sense to me. Now, I guess what I really don' t know, and 9 none of us seem to know is --
10 MR. PETERSON: Exactly, g3 MR. EATON: -- what is the interrelationship 12 between the automatic and the manual gagging?
g3 When you start to gag that, and move it from one
() 34 position to the other, when you first start moving the 15 gagging device, does that go easily until you come in 16 contact with .omething that actually starts the valve 17 movement?
13 In other words, is it easy to start turning the 19 gag until you get to a certain part where you' re actually 20 coming in contact with the valve at whatever position it's 21 in?
22 MR. PETERSON: On B , I didn' t f eel 'that. Did 23 you, Doug?
24 MR. JENKS: Now, as I recall, it was -- from the 25 start, it was firm. And even the first turn, I got some O
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46 1 movement out of the valve stems.
2 MR. PETERSON: (Indicating) It's kind of a 3 clickety-clickety-click-click-click-click-click and just 4 kind of keeps -- you feel kind of a little thing like that 5 all the way down.
6 And I felt a firm end to it. Just stopped like 7 that. And I --
A d 3 MR. JENKS: Yeah. When I closed it down, it was 9 firm, and it didn' t want to go any more. And the valve 10 stem was --
33 MR. EDISONs. Okay.
12 MR. JENKS: The polished portion on the valve 33 stem, which is normally down, was down all the way.
O i4 aa >=rmasoa: ^ oP9o a eo ^ a re 1 sot 15 this, you know, it wanted to fight me back. Understand, 16 pressure --
17 MR. EATON: Yeah.
33 MR. PETERSON: --
fighting back against me.
39 MR. EATON: It would be very interesting to see 20 the valve construction on this, on the interface between i
21 this --
12 MR. EDISON: This could have generic -
23 implications for trying to manually close the valves again 24 Pneumatic --
25 MR. EATON: Is there any way that you can bleed
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)
47 i
n I the air pressure off, or isolate the air pressure from the U 2 valve, prior to trying to do a manual --
3 MR. PETERSON: You certainly could isolate it --
4 MR. JENKS: It can be --
5 MR. PETERSON: I even think I thought about that 6 on the B, as I was running up, but I didn' t seem to have a 7 lot of problem with that. I didn't even think about it 3 on --
9 MR. EATON: That's not part of your training, to 10 isolate the air, or take the -- okay.
gg MR. EDISON: I have no further questions.
12 MR. EATON: I have no further questions, either.
33 Thank you very much for --
34 MR. PETERSON: Thank you.
15 MR. EDISON: We're off the record now.
16 (Thereupon the interview was concluded.)
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 n)
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48 A 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER U 2 I, Ramona Wilson Gordon, an Electronic Reporter, 3 do hereby certify:
4 That I am a disinterested person herein; that 5 the foregoing Nuclear Regulatory Commission interview was 6 recorded and thereafter transcribed by me into 7 typewriting.
8 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 9 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in 10 any way interested in the outcome of said hearing.
11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 12 this 30th day of December, 1985.
13 14
'RAMONA WTLS5R 1 $R.X)N -
15 Official Repor er 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 O
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