ML20155H911
| ML20155H911 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Rancho Seco, 05000000 |
| Issue date: | 01/06/1986 |
| From: | Jackie Jones SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20155H523 | List: |
| References | |
| RTR-NUREG-1195 NUDOCS 8605160456 | |
| Download: ML20155H911 (14) | |
Text
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O UN11ED STATES
] NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO:
INTERVIEW WITH JEFF JONES O
LOCATION:
HERALD, CALIFORNIA PAGES:
1 - 12 DATE:
MONDAY, JANUARY 6, 1986 I
II I I
I I
l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
O l
j OfficialReporters 444 North CapitolStreet i
8605160456 860306 Washington, D.C. 20001 ADOCK 0500 2
(202)347-3700 j
gDR NATIONWIDE COVERACE
I BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
3 4
In the Matter of:
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5 INCIDENT INSPECTION TEAM
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RANCHO SECO
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6
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7 8
9 10 INTERVIEW WITH JEFF JONES 11 12 MONDAY, JANUARY 6, 1986 13 14 15 16 RANCHO SECO NUCLEAR GENERATING STATION 17 14440 TWIN CITIES ROAD 18 HERALD, CALIFORNIA 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 YELEPHONE (916) 972 8394
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
HENRY BAILEY RON EATON 4
Nuclear Regulatory Cc=miccion Washington, DC SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT 6
JEFF JONES 7
JOHN McCOLLIGAN Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station 8
Unit No. 1 14440 Twin Cities Road 9
Herald, California 10 11 12 13
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14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 15 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
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2 Ino-2 MR. EATON:
Okay.
This is a meeting of 3
January 6, 1986, eleven o' clock, and it will be an 4
interview of Jeff Jones of SMUD, with regard to the human 5
factors issues that have been identified by the licensee.
6 For the purpose of this meeting, I'd like to 7
make sure we introduce everybody.
I'm Ron Eaton, with 8
the IIT team.
9 MR. BAILEY:
And I'm Henry Bailey with the IIT.
10 MR. McCOLLIGAN:
John McColligan, SMUD.
11 MR. JONE:
Jeff Jones, SMUD.
12 MR. EATON:
Okay.
The purpose of this 13 particular meeting, as I said, was to take a look at the 14 human factors issue.
We'd requested of the licensee 15 yesterday, in a meeting with Dan Whitney, that we be 16 provided with what he identified as, I believe, 26 issues 17 that are under review, currently, by the licensee.
18 Do you have a copy of that list, or could we --
19 MR. JONES:
I have a draft of what we have 20 found.
We're in the process of putting together the final 2;
report on it.
12 MR. EATON:
Okay.
Could you basically describe 23 the issues in the draft, and --
24 MR. JONES:
Each one of the paragraphs is a 15 Jifferent -- what we consider a different item.
And we
("%
a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER OMlVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE l916) S73 9994
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grouped those according to generic problems, such as 2
control room work space, communications, annunciator 3
warning systems, controls, visual displays, labels and 4
location aids, process computers, and a layout control 5
display integration issues, and other items that didn't 6
fall under -- into those other categories.
7 Basically, we have recently completed a control a
room design review, and you'll see some of these numbers 9
in parentheses.
Like the first one is GN-0-0324, under to control room space, the first paragraph.
11 That was our human factors evaluation --
12 observation that was generating during this year and a 13 half study, that identified this problem in particular.
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14 And so what we did was try to -- went through, 15 interviewed the oeprators, AO's, CO's, EO's, STA, 16 together, and came up with this list of problems, or items 17 that they felt were of concern during the recent is transient.
19 And then, we took those, compared those against J
20 the ones, the problems that we had identified during the 21 control room design review, and tried to indicate on this, 22 in this report, the ones that are -- here's a problem that 23 the operators identified, and here's a reference to what 24 we're recommending to be fixed.
i 25 This report is not complete, we don't have --
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all we have in a reference.
We don't have the item that
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2 we are going to fix about it.
We just tried to identify 3
the items that need to be addressed further.
4 MR. EATON:
That's interesting.
It seems to me, 5
just right at the first blush, that the majority of the 6
human factors considerations that you're looking at here 7
are, for the most part, control room.
8 And they don't deal with some,of the issues --
theimportantperipheralissuesthahtspecificallydealt 9
10 with non-licensed operator action outside the plant.
11 For instanct, valve indication, knowledge and 12 training of the valves that had to be closed, you know, 13 different ways of closing those valves.
14 MR. JO:iES:
That's under " controls" on page'two.
15 MR. EATON:
Is it?
16 MR. JONES:
Yeah.
We -- that was the purpose of 17 getting the EO's and AO's together with the rest of the i
la shift, was that we realized that there were a lot of 19 Problems and human factors outside of the control room.
I 20 And the only ones that we -- the control room 21 design review, which was where nll of our human factors 22 expertise has been until now, that was the reason we only 23 identified the ones that we had found prior to this.
24 But we did find, on that specific one, we 25 realized that the -- specifically, I guess, was the f(
PETERG SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATl0N 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORN1195525 TELERHONE (916) 972 5594
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aux feedwater valves they thought was closed, but did 1
2 not -- but did not --
3 MR. EATON:
Didn't realize it wasn't, really --
4 MR. JONES:
-- realize it wasn't.
5 MR. EATON:
Yeah.
6 MR. JONES:
And this explanation, because we did 7
go into specifically this one, was a lot -- we did go into 8
more detail, because the human factors engineer that we 9
have working with us did actually go down with one of the 10 shift supervisors to look at these valves.
11 And her indication was that it did look like it 12 was closed.
There was a mark there where the pointer 13 would go to, where they stopped.
And from all indication 14 that.they had there, it looked like to them, like it was 15 relosed.
16 And so what we're recommending is that we 17 just -- that we add the label that has re-labeled the 18 manual valves, so that that position is very obvious, that 19 they're all marked the same way.
Not just a little 20 screwdriver mark, but with a non-removable --
21 MR. BAILEY:
Wait a minute.
You say the manual 22 valve was closed?
13 MR. JONES:
These were --
24 MR. EATON:
Manual override on the --
25 O
1 i
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 9594
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I MR. JONE:
They were manually controlled --
U 2
they're not manual valves.
They're --
3 MR. BAILEY:
Oh, okay.
4 MR. EATON:
Okay.
5 MR. McCOLLIGAN:
He's talking the control valve.
6 MR. JONES:
Yeah.
7 MR. McCOLLIGAN:
And the handwheel operator on 8
the --
9 MR-JONES:
And the stem on that, the pointer on 10 it, has a mark where the first operator stopped.
11 MR. BAILEY:
And the human factor, the 12 individual, said that it looked like to them it was closed 13 off, so --
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14 MR. JONES:
Yes.
Based upon --
15 MR. BAILEY:
This was a valve that was on 16 80 percent closed --
17 MR. JONES:
Yes.
18 MR. BAILEY:
-- at one time.
19 MR. JONES:
Yes.
20 MR. EATON:
Okay.
This -- obviously, I haven't 21 had a chance to read this.
I guess one of the things is 22 this doesn't include your recommendations, is that 23 correct?
24 MR. JONES:
That's true.
25 MR. EATON:
Okay.
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 973-3894
8 1
MR. JONES:
Not totally.
This one does, in this t
2 specific instance, ew recommended that labels be added, 3
which we're recommending that they be black on a 4
fluorescent background, so that you can see them at night.
5 And in dark areas, because that's another 6
problems of the lighting.
It's -- you can see things, and 7
get to them, but when you're looking at it, trying to 8
determing whether the thing's closed or not, a fluorescent 9
label, a fluorescent background, would be a big benefit.
10 And then have it marked "open" or " closed" and 11 have a mark on that label, so that there is no confusion.
12 MR. EATON:
I'm not so sure on that B valve, 13 that being able to see it is even --
14 MR. BAILEY:
Even getting around to see --
15 MR. EATON:
Yeah.
16 MR. BAILEY:
-- it, I have a problem, 17 MR. EATON:
You've got to hop over a railing 18 there, and get on the other side of the valve, to really 19 get a decent look on the B valve.
But that's an issue 20 we'll lcok at separately.
21 I think we really need time to take a look at 22 the o:.es you've looked at, and see how c16se these come to 23 the mark on the items that we see that are important.
24 Also, if you already have specific 25 recommendations on some of these, I think we would like to f%
v PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATIDN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8394
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see how far you've gone on that area, too.
2 MR. JONES:
that will be coming later on this 3
week, when we pull out the HEO's.
4 MR. BAILEY:
HEO's?
5 MR. JONES:
Human engineering observations.
6 MR. EATON:
Okay.
Well, seeing as this is the 7
first shot we have at the list, I feel I want to sit down 8
and take a good, in-depth look at this, and see how 9
complete I feel it is, and see if, in the areas of, for 10 instance, controls, I feel you've identified all the 11 concerns.
12 So I guess at this point, I'm more interested in 13 doing a little study on what the utility's come up with.
14 Can you think of anything specific, Henry, that 15 you want to --
16 MR. BAILEY:
No.
I don't -- not until we look 17 at it, I don't think so.
13 MR. EATON:
Jeff, let me ask you, with regards 19 to your plan of action on this thing, as this is on the
~
~
20 action list.
21 What criteria, guidelines, have you been 22 provided?
To what depth of detail are you going into?
23 Have you been given guidelines?
24 MR. JONES:
Not per se.
What we're doing is 25 doing -- we still have this team together we've done the U,n PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER QRIVE, SUITE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
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control room design review with, and I'm using that team 1
2 to analyze this transient.
In addition --
3 MR. EATON:
Okay, I'm sorry.
Have you been 4
guidelines on how to go about analyzing?
5 MR. JONES:
We are analyzing the same way, with 6
the same guidelines and criteria that we did the control 7
room with.
Which was, we submitted a program plan about 3
two years ago to the NRC.
And listed our human factors guidelines.
30 We have a criteria report that we have issued, si and we are basically doing this transient review the same 12 way that we did the control room design review.
33 MR. EATON:
Okay.
I'm not familiar with the 14 control room design review that you did do, or what the 15 criteria was or anything like that.
The only --
16 MR. JONES:
Two books, if you want to read them.
17 (Laughter.)
18 MR. EATON:
Well, I'm certainly --
19 MR. BAILEY:
What schedule are you working in?
20 MR. JONES:
The report, we're trying to get out 21 this week to management.
MR. BAILEY:
With --
22 MR. JONES:
This report.
gg MR. BAILEY:
Just with this.
24 MR. JONES:
Which will --
25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95535
, TELEPHONE (916) 973-8994
11 1
MR. BAILEY:
Without conclusions.
2 MR. JONES:
Well, no.
This will indicate our 3
first -- here's what the problem is, and here's what we're 4
recommending to be done --
5 MR. BAILEY:
Okay.
6 MR. JONES:
-- to fix it.
7 MR. SAILEY:
This week, then.
8 MR. EATON:
Yeah.
It's a short-term item on the 9
action list.
10 As far as the action list goes, John, am I led 11 to believe that only the ones that have the asterisks on 12 them will receive the type of detail that was given in the 13 general guidelines that were earlier approved by --
14 MR. McCOLLIGAN:
That's correct.
15 MR. EATON:
And this one, at this point, you 16 don't feel the human factors issue fall in that category 17 for that depth of -
18 MR. JONES:
That's right.
19 MR. EATON:
-- review?
20 MR. JONES:
That's right.
21 MR. EATON:
Okay.
Again, I guess at this point, 22 I think I want to take a look at what you've done in this 23 area, and see how this coincides with our thoughts on it, 24 or doesn't coincide with our thoughts on it.
25 And I'd like to get back with you after we've b
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l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTC. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8594 0
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had that opportunity, perhaps either later today, or early 2
tomorrow.
3 At what point do you feel you'll have your 4
conclusions and recommendations?
5 MR. JONES:
Should be by the end of the week.
6 Hopefully before then.
7 MR. EATON:
Well, I hope not to be here by the 8
end of the week.
But, okay.
I don't see any point in 9
going any further until we know where they're coming from.
10 MR. BAILEY:
Um-hmm.
11 MR. EATON:
We'll bounce it against our 12 thoughts.
13 MR. BAILEY:
Well, we can get a copy of these if
(
we're not h'ere, sure.
14 15 MR. EATON:
Oh, no.
That's right.
I'm sure we 16 can get a copy of your --
17 MR. JONES:
It will be --
18 MR. EATON:
And it will be forwarded to us, and 19 we can take a better look at it then.
20 Okay.
Do you have anything else, do we have 21 anything else?
l 12 Okay.
I think we can go off the record.
This 23 concludes the interview.
24 (Thereupon the interview was concluded at 11:17 25 a.m.)
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l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A SACRAMENTD. CAL 8FORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 973-3394
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CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2
I, Ramona Wilson Gordon, an Electronic Reporter, 3
do hereby certify:
4 That I am a disinterested person herein; that 5
the foregoing Nuclear Regulatory Commission interview was 6
recorded by me and thereafter transcribed into 7
typewriting.
8 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 9
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in 10 any way interested in the outcome of said hearing.
If IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 12 this 6th day of January, 1986.
II s
t 14
- M ML b
)
RAMQNA'WILSCiN GORDOR j
~
15 Official Reporter 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ilO l
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594