ML20155H774
| ML20155H774 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Rancho Seco, 05000000 |
| Issue date: | 12/31/1985 |
| From: | Coward G, Whitney D AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
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| References | |
| RTR-NUREG-1195 NUDOCS 8605160400 | |
| Download: ML20155H774 (128) | |
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UNITED STATES -
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 9
IN THE MA' ITER OF: DOCK 5h'NO:
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EXAMINATION OF DANIEL D. WHITNEY '
and GEOItGE COWARD - e t
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I.OCATION: HERALD, CALIFORNIA PAGES: 1 - 116 DATE: TUESDAY, DECEMBER 31, 1985
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r ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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OfficialRepuh.rs 444 North Capit61 Street Washington, D.C. 2(@l 860S160400 860306 (202) 347-3700' PDR ADOCK 05000312 '
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NADONWIDE COVEnACE
1 !
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.3 1 BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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( 2 I 3 In the Matter of. f 4
)
5 AUG11ENTED INSPECTION TEAM )
RANCHO SECO )
6 )
7 8
9 Examination of:
10 DANIEL D. WHITNEY g3 GECRGE COWARD 12 December 31, 1985 13 O 14 b RANCHO SECO 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION
' 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE SulTE A BACRAM NTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-3594 M-T -WMYW DE M %OA**Ohf * -MM F e - _
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APPEARANCES y
Al Chaffee, Nuclear Regulatory Comission J.T. Beard, Nuclear Regulatory Comission 3
Gordon Edison, Nuclear Regulatory Comission 4
Ron Eaton, Huclear Regulatory Comission 6
Henry. Baile'y, Huclear Regulatory Comission n -
Fred Hebdon, Nuclear Regulary Comission 7
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9 10 11 12 13 p
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3 CHAFFEE: Okay. This is December 31, and this is 4 a meeting with Dan Whitney to go over the guidelines that are 5 going to be used for troubleshooting various pieces of 6 equipment that are on the quarantine list. And in addition, 7 we will, from this meeting, intend to further di'scuss the 8 quarantine list itself.
9 At this time, I'm going to quickly -- for the 10 quarantine list we have some things that we just determined 11 do not need to be on the list. First, steamheaders do not 12 have to be on the list. The rad monitor which was never on 13 it does not need to be on the list. The waste gas header 14 compressor'does not need to be on the list, although we would 15 still like to understand what happened to it.
16 And at this point we would be interested in --
17 oh, question, was the A HPI pump running at the time when they la shut the water storage tank supply to the makeup pump?
19 UHITNEY: I have asked that question to the people 20 putting together the sequence of events and we will just have 21 to wait until they get back with the answer. So I do not know 22 the answer at this point.
23 CHAFFEE: Okay, then at this time currently we 24 agree with your quarantine list with the addition of the 25 sister valve to FMS063, the other train which we agreed to A
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- b. 2 WHITNEY: Yes. The valve number for that is 3 FWS064.
4 CHAFFEE: Okay. And the addition of -- let me put 5 it in a different context. On your action plan you have a 6 description of the scope of the ICS system and it says from 7 the C+J/F power supplies, inverters, and through ICS power 8 distribution. Question, does that include the lc Inverter?
9 WHITNEY: Yes, that C is in fact the 1C inverter.
10 And then we have also -- I've included item i) on the list 11 which is vital distribution Bus 1Cl and its related loads.
12 That would be inclusive of the vital C inverter. Why don't 13 I hand you this which is the updated action list from es 14 today's meeting. And I think it includes the things you're U 15 looking at.
16 CHMTEE: Suggest we all pitch the old cne.
17 UHITNEY: That's the last page there.
18 BEARD: 1Cl is a sub-Bus for vital Bus 1C?
19 WHITNEY: It's real name is lCl.
20 BEARD: Oh, I see. So you're saying the Bus itself 21 or you're saying the Bus and its associated inverter. Is 22 that what you mean?
23 WHITNEY: Well it's meant to be everything 24 associated with 1C1 and its loads. 1C1 is the Bus, there's 25 an associated battery and an inverter.
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3 1 BEARD: So this item includes the battery and I 2 inverter. Okay.
3 EDISON: What kinds of things would be loads?
4 WHITNEY: In that situation there the A, B,C, and 5 D Buses are basically the power supplies for the four 6 reactor protection systems to channels -- independent channels 7 and some of those are also used by the safety features 8 actuation system. That's it. There's very little load on 9 those. It's primarily those reactor protection systems and 10 those are primarily instrumentation systems. So their total 11 loading is relatively low.
12 CHAFFEE: Do you by chance have an extra copy of 13 this with you?
14 WHITNEY: I don't think I do.
'~') 15 EDISON: We have to be a little careful of what we 16 say here. If you say "and related loads" and it's all this 17 other equipment, you know, if we come down to wanting to 18 write reports on all this other stuff, we better --
19 CHAFFEE: Can I ask somebody in the group to not 20 write on one of these and that's the one we'll put in --
21 BEARD: I've already written on mine.
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22 EATON: Me, too, but mine is --
23 CHAFFEE: Just hold on. If you want to just hold 24 on to it then what we'll do is at the end we'll -- or the 25 other way we can do it is if everybody wants to write on O
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their's, we need to get one copy to put into the record is 2 what it boils down to.
3 What we usually end up needing is a copy for 4 everyone here plus a clean copy for the record.
5 WHITNEY: I thought I had them.
6 CHAFFEE: Okay. In.looking at the quarantine list 7 Item a) agree, Item b) agree, c) --
8 BEARD: What page are you on?
9 CHAFFEE: Six.
10 UHITNEY: Six.
11 CHAFFEE: Just running through the list, a), b), c),
12 d), e), f) , -- okay, f) is intended to be a scoping. I 13 don't -- can we talk about this one? What does it mean?
14 WHITNEY: Yes. In fact in talking about f) you 15 really need to also talk about h), i) , and j) items on the 16 next page.
17 CHAFFEE: Okay. Let's talk about them as a group.
18 WHITNEY: The reason-being h) and i) are the power 19 supplies which provide the power to the e), f) , and j) Buses.
20 CHAFFEE: Okay.
21 WHITNEY: And those two items back there, the h) 22 and the 1) item, the Buses 2Cl and 2Dl, those are 480 volt 23 AC 3 phase Buses. And in this situation we're taking off a 24 single phase and bringing it into these particular loads to 25 serve the j), e) and f) loads.
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5 1 BEARD: Which one serves j), e) and f)? The h)
'd 2 or the i) item?
I WHITNEY: You have two supplies. You can pick it 4 either from h) or i). There's an automatic transfer involved.
5 BEARD: Bu't these are for only e), f) and j) ?
6 WHITNEY: Well, e), f) and j) get their power from 7 either the item h) or item i) power supply.
8 BEARD: I understand.
9 WHITNEY: The c) power supply talked about in 10 item f) is the vital distribution Bus lCl which is noted as 11 item j) on the second page.
12 BEARD: Okay. I understand you now. Thank you.
13 COWARD: I have a question. Do you want us to 14 go back that far into this power supply thing?
15 BEARD: Well I think where we'are is that the 16 question was brought up I think yesterday and when we had 17 a meeting on this general subject of scoping this thing to 18 the right level where everybody could agree to. We could go 19 'out a 100 yards or narrow it down to where we are. And I 20 think we agreed last night that we would like to hear what 21 your company proposes.
22 If we can find that agreeable then that's it. So 23 we're looking at your proposal. And I take it for granted 24 that if you put it on the list that's what you want.
25 WHITNEY: Well, let me tell you what I've done.
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n I've put it on the list so that we can preserve the existing
(,) 2 condition.
3 BEARD: Oh, I see.
4 WHITNEY: And with the intent being to focus it 5 down to something that's much narrower.
6 BEARD: Okay.
7 UHITNEY: At this point let me give you an update 8
as to where we are, recognizing that this is preliminary and 9
we do not have a written presentation on this. But what we 10 have done is to take a look at what supplies the ICS.
11 I have a single simplified schematic here of the 12 power supplies for the ICS.
This is looking at the DC power 13 and what you have there is a supply that is selected by an ;
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(*) auctioneer from either the C or what is called the J Bus. And 15 based simply on voltage, one of those or the other will r 16 predominate. !
Each of those supplies goes through a trip !
17 I' switch noted as S1 or S2 and from there each of those goes [
18 to a half power supply, be it plus or minus.
19 Those power supplies then go through the auctioneer f
20 and show up on Buses which are 24 volt plus/24 volt minus I y
21 Buses. The ICS then is driven by those two Buses directly. i 12 i So you have redundancy up to the point of the L 25 power supplies to that Bus.
Now here's the situation. The --
t' 24 g oing back you have the 1Cl power supply which is our vital 25 power coming from the C reactor protection system channel. l O i PETERS SHoRTHANo REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTD, CALIFORN8A 95535
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That Bus is provided with an over/under voltage annunciation,
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d 2 a number of other typical monitoring devices.
3 In the precursors to this event we have no indicatior 4
that that power supply was in jeopardy or lost or having any 5 problems.
There were no annunciators that came in on that 6 power supply. Had that power supply failed, we would have !
7 expected to see tilat associated reactor protection system 8 channel trip. We did not have that trip. We would have seen 9
the safety features actuation system associated channel trip, 10 we did not see that.
11 So what I'm saying is we have nothing telling us 12 that there was any problem with the C power supply. Looking 13 through here, the way this thing is built, if one or the other O 14 of those two power supplies is available then the ICS is 15 fully powered. I 16 Now we go through the J and when we go through 17 that side, again we have the numerous other loads on the
- 13 J Bus and we have no indication that the .J supply was at 19 knytime unavailable. Had it been unavailable, of course, we 20 should have expected to go right back on to the C. If in 21 fact it had been the autioneered high and was actually t t.
22 carrying the loads. i 23 That determination as to where the auctioneer 6
24 was set and the like we don't know yet because we haven't 25 been able to go through and take the modules out and check o l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A
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8 I the calibrations. Although as part of the normal operator l'~l V 2 walk-around they do monitor the voltage on those Buses. And 3 we know that the J Bus was carrying about 116 volts of its 4 normal rated 118 volts. So while the voltage is lower than 5 the set point on there, it's certainly adequate to carry it.
6 It's my understanding that the alarms come in on 7 that power supply at 108 volts and the trip is supposed to be 8 set at 105 volts. That trip would be the trip of the circuit-9 breaker on a loss of power.
10 So what I'm telling you is it looks like we have no 11 reason to suspect the power supplies coming in from either the 12 C side or from the J side.
13 CHAFFEE: At the time of the event was power being --
14 do you know which one of those power supplies was supplying v
15 power to the --
16 WHITNEY: There's no real way to tell that other 17 than a comparison of the voltages that were on those buses 18 and I am not familiar with how much detail we have on those 19 two. I know the operators monitor those on their shift 20 walk-around.
21 CHAFFEE: The ABT is upstream of those two, is 22 that right?
23 WHITNEY: Unfortunately I didn't -- this sketch 24 doesn't show it. The ABT is actually in parallel with what 25 we're looking at here.
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9 1 BEARD: It's unrelated.
2 CHAFFEE: That's right. I'm sorry. The ABT 3 supplies 115 volt separate --
4 WHITNEY: To those components of the ICS and it 5 gets its power upstream of the Sl-S2 switches so it gets it 6 right off the top of the page here and it goes off over 7 through the ABT.
8 CHAFFEE: I see. I understand,.
9 WHITNEY:. The ABT as an indicator is an 10 interesting device because it is normally set with agreen 11 light to the C power supply. And it was monitored through 12 the event and after the event and it stayed on the C power 13 supply all the time, which is the preferred one by our
, 14 procedures. So it did not lose C and try to transfer to 15 the J for example.
16 EATON: Had it lost C and transferred to the J, 17 if you had gotten power back to the C would it have gone 18 back. Is it source preferred?
19 WHITNEY: No, it is not. No. It requires a 20 manual operation to put it back onto the C.
21 EATON: Okay. You also said in the process of 22 monitoring the plant that there was a 116 volts on the J 23 side?
24 WHITNEY: Yes.
25 EATON: Did they also monitor what was available O
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10 1 on the other side? What was the difference?
2 WHITNEY: I don't have that information. I 3 believe we have it, it's just that I don't have it right now.
4 EATON: Because if this was 114 then you would 5 think it would be off the J side, wouldn't you?
6 UHITNEY: I think because of the relatively light 7 loading on the C, I would imagine that its voltage would be 8 higher. ,
9 BEARD: I think that that's totally irrelevant.
10 The reason I say that is the power supplies that produce the 11 plus and minus 24 volts normally get 118 volt input. The 12 idea is.and I would be totally flabbergasted to find it is 13 anything other.than this, is that with 118 volts, plus or 14 minus 10%, it gives its fixed outpu't.
15 So if one input to a power supply was 119 and the 16 other one is 114, because the power supply is intended to 17 accept that varying input and produce a constant output, the 18 input voltage, as long as it is within 5 or 10%, is totally 19 irrelevant.
20 WHITNEY: Well that's why we have the alarm set 21 at 108 and the trip set at 105.
22 BEARD: You might want to look at your specs and 23 see if it's 10%. Because if it is 10%, the 105 may be a 24 little -- you might want to tweak that a bit. But that's 25 another story.
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WHITNEY: These are things that we expect will 2
come out when we get into the actual investigation of the 3
power supply and the power monitor and that part of it.
4 BEARD: I understand.
5 WHITNEY: What I'm trying to develop for you is 6
the logic that I would like to apply to limiting the scope 7 of the investigation. There was another report, you were 8
aware of I believe, that the watch commander called and said 9 that they had lost power. There was also a report that the 10 security computer had lost its power. I have some information 11 on that.
12 The security computer had lost its power or had h 18 been down approximately 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> at the time of the event.
14 There are two security computers. The one had been down. We a f 15 have no reason to believe its problems had anything to do 16 with the event itself, the powering of it or what have you. ,
17 EDISON: Was there repair work going on on it or i.
18 anything like that? i 19 Wi!ITNEY: I --
20 BAILEY: Excuse me. Can we go off the record . r 21 a minute. {
k 22 (Off the record.) '
28 WilITNEY: The security computer had been down about i 24 a day and was returned to service later on the 26th by '
25 re-booting.
What was done in the meantime and the like I O k PETERE SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMEmicAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFORN6A 95888 TELFPNONE (916) 973*SG94
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1 do not know. I don't think it's pertinent to this. It was 2
clearly not a failure coincident with the power loss and that 3 was the question.
l 4 BEARD: So the information we had earlier was 5
bum dope but I understand the thing was out significantly 6 before the event. It wasn't restored until after the event, 7 therefore probably doesn't relate.
8 WilITNEY: We have no reason to believe it had 9 anything to do with ' '.e transient -- the electrical transient.
10 BEARD: Okay.
11 WHITNEY: The other concern, which was the report 12 of loss -- a short period loss of lighting. We are trying 13 to get people who actual 1y witnessed it to find out what p 14 caused that or how long its duration was actually. Coincident V
15 with a trip, some of the loads in the plant are being 16 l carried by auxiliary transformers and those swap back over 17 to the startup transformers.
l A momentary blip, a darkening 18 and lightening is very noticeable when those loads do switch 19 on lighting.
20 These in particular loads were in fact on the 21 auxiliary transformer at that time so they should have seen 22 that kind of an intermittent operation. But that's typically 23 far less than a second that that occurs. So we are working i
i 24 an finding out how long that outage was and trying to tie it 25 down better with respect to when the trip occurred. But again, i
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2 that as the precursor to the ICS failure event.
3 CHAFFEE: Let me ask a different question. Let's 4
assume for the moment that somehow it was associated with 5 the computer and stuff, even if that was the case I can't 6 think of any reason why you couldn't have two islands. I 7 mean have the computer as one thing for quarantine and still 8 narrow this thing down.
9 WHITNEY: Exactly, unless we're talking about 10 some kind of a low voltage or a ground fault or a spike of 11 some type which appears on one of these major Buses and then 12 propagates on through and in that fashion could cause a 13 failure of the power monitor, for example. Because if there 14 is any fault out there on the J or its associated power
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15 supplies, it should not make any difference to the ICS 16 because we have no indication that the C was ever lost.
17 BAILEY: Do we have any SCR controllers here in 18 that circuit anywhere?
19 DEARD: Not on this circuit. There are some 20 upstream in the inverter.
21 CHAFFEE: I have another question. What is the 12 most likely cause of this thing. Do you have any ideas?
23 WHITNEY: Well it's far too early to do that. It 24 would be tempting to say the problem had to have occurred 25 in the power monitor but you know that's more wishful thinking (3
NJ PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE, EUlTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 98525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
14 1 than anything else. We may have a condition here which we U 2 will not be able to duplicate. You know there is one thing 3 which has changed irrespective of our quarantine is the 4 ambient temperature in the control room area where the devices 5 work. And we don't know that maybe that didn't in some way 6 cause an IC someplace to cough and here we are.
7 EDISON: It's happened, what, three or four times 8 in the last week or so or week and a half?
9 WHITNEY: There are reports that the annunciater, 10 control room annunciater, which gives you ICS power failure 11 alarm and actually it's ICS HNI power failure alarm. There 12 are several devices that are annunciated through that one 13 window. Would momentarily come in and then immediately clear.
(Off the record.)
{} 14 15 BEARD: Okay. Dan, you've been making the argument 16 that it's probably not upstream of the components that are 17 shown on this cartoon here which start with the 1C Bus and 18 the 1J Bus. I believe there is technical reasonable 19 ' assurance that given the redundancy in this design, there's 20 not very likely at all that it's upstream of those Buses.
21 I would be willing to concede, rather than go 12 through another hours worth of discussion that if you want 25 to scope this thing to the breaker on the C Bus and the 24 breaker on the J Bus downward that that would be a reasonable 25 cut for defining the scope of the ICS power supply at this
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PETERE SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (996) 973 3394
15 1 time. Of course it carries with it the caveat that that if 2 you find nothing that rather than just say it's a no-never 3 mind we can't find, there would be some investigation 4 subsequently of upstream considerations.
5 The worse situation that you can get into, as 6 we've explained repeatedly at Davis-Besse, is to have a 7 major event and not be able to determine the root causes.
8 That's significant.
9 WHITNEY: And we are no more comfortable with that 10 than you.
11 BEARD: I understand. But that would be the 12 reason why you don't write it off, you look further.
13 CHAFFEE: It's not your intent to write it off, 14 correct?
15 WHITNEY: Absolutely not. Because we have been 16 burned by this and we fully expect to find the reason for 17 it.
18 BEARD: But I would be willing.to just accept your 19 proposal to define the scope as the breaker on the 1C and 20 lJ Buses downward.
21 WHITNEY: Okay. I certainly support that. We 22 have the breaker numbers. The one for the C Bus is 23 actually 1Cl29 and what I will do is I will revise the 24 quarantine equipment list to that level of detail and take 25 these other items off of here so that it is clear to all of A
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16 1 us what breakers we're talking about.
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's 2 CHAFFEE: Okay. So h), 1), and j) would be 3 replaced with --
4 WHITNEY: f), h), i), and j) will all get reworked 5 so that it's clear what we're talking about here.
6 BEARD: In fact, h) , 1), and j) would be deleted?
7 WHITNEY: h) and i) would be deleted and j) I'll 8 have to get you the right definition for that. f) is not 9 sufficient in itself. It needs to be replaced with some 10 specific breaker numbers and that kind of information.
11 CHAFFEE: Okay. And for the record, the action 12 list we're using is dated 12/31/85, time 1200 and we'll put 13 a copy of that attached to the transcript, the best way to 14 do it.
Q'u 15 BEARD: You can do it either way you prefer.
16 CHAFFEE: Okay. Let's put it in the documentation 17 we've been collecting.
18 Okay. So that takes care of the scoping of the
, 19 ICS system. The next thing we have is the makeup pumproom.
20 We will at present or we will leave it as it is currently 21 defined and readdress it when we have an answer back on 22 the A-HPI pump.
23 WHITNEY: To recognize that, since the last time 24 we have spoken about the makeup pumproom and its 25 quarantining, I have revised the definition here to allow V'
PETERB BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, GUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPNONE (916) 973 3394
17 I work on equipment not related to the makeup pump. What 73
('-) 2 that means is we have things like the spent fuel pool filter 3 located in that room. There is other appparatus in there 4
which we need to do work on.
5 CHAFFEE: I have no problem with that.
0 EDISON: It's not clear to me what your quarantine --
7 you're on g) here?
8 UHITNEY: Yes.
9 EDISON: You have makeup pumproom and P-236 is 10 the pump?
II WHITNEY: Yes, it is.
12 EDISON: But not including electrical supply, okay 13 for decon of the room and work on equipment not related to 14 makeup pump.
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15 CHAFFEE: Let me ask a question. We're basically 16 interested in the makeup pump itself. Do we have a need 17 to --
38 BEARD: Let me -- I know what your concern is. What 19 are you trying to accomplish by quarantining the room?
20 WHITNEY: That was the early request from your 21 people that we quarantine the room.
18 BEARD: Is that related to the release of 23 radioactive water through the breaker --
24 WHITNEY: I have no idea what it was related to.
25 CHAFFEE: No, I think it -- I don't know who made O
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18 1 the request or whomever it was. I think the concept of that g
2 time was they were just thinking let's quarantine the whole 3 room off because the makeup pump is in there. I'm thinking 4 now I'm trying to narrow it to exactly what we're interested 5 in.
6 BEARD: I'd like to suggest that it be scoped down 7 to the first valve upstream and downstream of the pump.
8 Just to those mechanical compounds. I mean I'm throwing 9 that out on the table as a suggestion. I expect some 10 discussion.
11 EDISON: Yeah and that we come back and revisit 12 it as soon as we know --
18 CHAFFEE: I think that would be appropriate. The 14 only thing I would think is a caveat on that is that would Ci 15 be appropriate for quarantine. The only thing that'-- we 16 have looked at the pictures that exist. I guess my one 17 thought is, I don't know, do we have an interest in how the 18 debris was distributed or had that stuff already been 19 " relocated?
20 BEARD: I don't.
21 WHITNEY: I can't answer whether or not it has 22 been relocated but I believe that it has.
CHAFFEE: Okay. Let's do just that. Let's just 28 24 focus between those two valves.
25 EATON: Are you talking about the first valve O
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19 1 upstream and downstream of the pump that is remotely operated.
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-' 2 I don'.t know if there's --
3 WHITNEY: No, normally -- I would interpret that 4 as manual isolation valves.
5 BEARD: Because that's what you're going to have 6 to close in order to do this work, right?
7 WlIITNEY: I'm sorry?
8 BEARD: To do this work you're going to have to 9 close those valves if you haven't already, take the pump out, 10 put in a new one, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And I think 11 that's an appropriato interface.
12 CllAFFEE: Okay. So why don't we do that then.
13 COUARD: What is your interest in the pump itself,
(~') 14 I mean we know what happened to it.
V 15 BEARD: Well I think that the interest stems or 16 is highly dependent upon the use of the A-IIPI pump. In other 17 words we don't know at this time and he is looking into it 18 for us, as to whether or not the suction valve for the A-HPI 19 was turned off also and it could have suffered some abuse.
20 EDISON: While the pump was running.
21 BEARD: Right, while the pump was running. And 22 we don't know that. That's an unresolved matter. And 23 until we know that, we want this pump kept on the list so '
24 that we can have a better handle on it. Now once we determine 25 the A-HPI pump was really turned off before its suctions were O
/
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMENICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BAcNAMENTO. cALaromNIA essas TELEPHONE (996) 972 5894
20 I all closed, then maybe this item will come off the list 2 entirely. But we had talked about that in an earlier meeting.
3 It's not really the pump itself the reason this is on here.
4 COWARD: Okay.
5 CHAFFEE: It's the thought that maybe it would 6 provide some information as to the-A-HPI -- previously I 7 thought the previous sequence of events made it clear it 8 was off but the new one doesn't so now I --
9 WHITNEY: Well, it's missing entirely on the new 10 one.
11 CHAFFEE: It's missing so now I don't know --
12 WHITNEY: We've got to get that fixed.
! 13 CHAFFEE: So we've agreed then that we will narrow
] 14 the quarantine relative to the makeup from just the makeup 15 pump suction and discharge, suction and discharge manual 16 valve.
17 COWARD: Why don't you put the valve numbers in 18 there Dan.
19 WHITNEY: Yes, I will.
20 EDISON: I have to open something else'up here.
I 21 CHAFFEE: Okay.
22 EDISON: I'm sorry. In your August feedwater lines,
- 28 you tried to close the discharge control valves, couldn't l
24 do it. Went to the isolation valves, stuck. Are there any 25 other isolation valves in those lines of the same vintage l
O l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN AlvER DRIVE. SulTE A SACNAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95888 TELEPHONE (914) 978 8894 L
21 l l
1 that have been locked open since the time of memorial that O
V 2 you might want to close and you couldn't de-stuck?
3 WHITNEY: I can't answer that question directly 4 but you have to realize that manual isolation valves are not 5 something that normally fails open. Those are typically 6 opened and you cycle relatively frequently during outages as 7 we put the plant into various different conditions, for l 8 instance, during refuelings.
9 EDISON: Well it depends on how many valves you 10 have got in the line. You can have a line and it will have 11 a lot of different valves in it and you always pick these 12 two to isolate the thing.
13 WHITNEY: Well in the case of the aux feedwater 14 those are the only ones -- there are very few valves in the
(
15 aux feedwater system.
16 BEARD: This is not something you would want to 17 talk about in quarantine discussion in any case, is it?
l 18 EDISON: No, you wouldn't have to quarantine it 19 but you would want to possibly investigate it.
20 CHAFFEE: I think the concept is --
21 BEARD: Possible item for the action list maybe.
22 EDISON: It may be generic to that valve. I mean
! 23 they may have several valves in there, been there for ten 24 years locked open and they isolate with these and they're f
25 just sitting there.
l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVEM DRIVE. SulTE A SACNAMENTO. CALWORNIA 96055 TELEPHONE (916) 975 36894
, . . _ . . - -_m . - . . . . . . . .
22 1 BEARD: You know there might be another approach O
\> 2 that we could take that might accomplish the same thing but 3 at stages. We've got the valve that misbehaved on the list.
4 We've got its redundant valve in the other train on the list.
5 And if the redundant valve is found to have the same disease 6 as the first one, whatever that is, then we can look broader.
7 But if it's found to be clean, quote unquote, then maybe 8 that says okay, maybe we don't have to look at it. And 9 certainly not as a restart item. But the condition of the 10 results of the second valve to me would be a big tipoff as 11 to how far you want to go.
12 WHITNEY: Well, even the finding as to what the 13 problem in the first valve was.
(} 14 ci!AFFEE: All these valves we're talking about, are 15 these all safety related?
16 EDISON: They are a safety system.
17 COWARD: The valve itself would be a class 1 valve 18 if you will because it is in a Class 1 system.
19 BAILEY: Pressure boundaries.
20 DEARD: Not functional but boundary.
21 CIIAFFEE: Are all these valves in a maintenance 22 program? Preventive maintenance?
23 COWARD: We don't have a routine to take manual 24 valves apart routinely.
25 CilAFFEE: But I mean are they routinely cycled or PETENs SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 98535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 ee94
23 1 are --
O
'V 2 WHITNEY: There's no exercising program for 3 manual isolation valves.
4 EATON: Is there a history of them being cycled 5 as a result of other maintenance?
6 WHITNEY: Yes.
7 EATON: So you might know if one.was cycled more 8 than the other?
9 COWARD:: That would be difficult to find --
10 WHITNEY: Yeah, that would be --
11 COWARD: You know, ten years of clearance tags in 12 order to beiable to find a recycled valve.
13 EATON: If you take a look at those valves, the p
v 14 reserve fittings on the yokes where the stems go through, is 15 there a program in place to do routine lubrication that would 16 pick those up as a result of them having circ fittings? '
17 COWARD: Probably not, we don't typically go 18 through and grease the valves. Only if the operators report 19 that they have a problem turning the valve or it's turning 20 hard that we do that, otherwise you run the risk of pumping 21 too much grease in and that sort of thing. So we typically 22 don't go through and grease them on a routine basis.
28 EATON: I'm just looking for ways of, you know, --
24 CHAFFEE: One of the thoughts we're dealing with 25 nere is whether or not this valve is unique or somehow was O
V PETERS SHoRTHANo REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894
24
- 1 an indicator of other problems that might exist.' And I guess 2 the thought is that recognizing that as a possible expansion 3 it would be prudent at this. point to think of what things 4 might be good to do at this point to make sure there isn't 5 any information that could be useful at this point is lost.
6 I don't know if you're going -- if you plan on 7 doing any activities in that system or if the operators could 8 be sensitized that if they do find any valves that -- I 9 guess it's difficult to do there, you know, difficult to 10 Operate but somehow we want to capture --
11 WHITNEY: We hear that from them all the time and 12 so we respond to those immediately.
13 CHAFFEE: I'm thinking from this point on. If q 14 they are going to go up there and do stuff it would be -- .
b/
15 BAILEY: We seem to be getting off of the quarantine, 16 I guess that's --
17 CHAFFEE: The concept is we wanted to find --
18 COWARD: In all the years we've operated this plant, 19 'to the best of my knowledge this is the first time we have 20 ever had a manual valve we couldn't close.
21 CHAFFEE: Is that right, okay.
22 COWARD: I've been here since 1970 and that's 23 before the plant ever came on line.
24 CHAFFEE: Okay. Well then shall we move on to --
25 BEARD: I guess we're up to Item k) and k) through O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVC. SulTE A E*ACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 98535 T'ELEPHONE (916) 973 8894 L, . . . . _ . . . . - . . . . . . . _ .
25 1 the end are all pegging steam control valves and relief 2 valves.
I CHAFFEE: Right. I think what we would like to 4 do is go through a discussion of what we can do to narrow 5 this-list or if we do need to have the entire list.
6 EDISON: I guess I'm a little ignorant in this 7 area but how did this come up. Somehow I missed this during 8 the event. You think you may have had a heater relief valve 9 lift.
10 WHITNEY: We have -- let me recamp for you what's 11 happened. In the last two trips we've had here,-both times 12 the pegging steam relief valves on the 4A feedwater heater 13 lifted. And in the first time they were a significant,,
14 contribution to a small overcooling as a result of the fact (U'T 15 we did this at 15% power with almost no decay heat and there 16 was very little energy. And so there was a short cooldown 17 as a result.
18 So from the control room you can hear relief valves 19 on the turbine deck area, which is not far from the door, 20 if they do open. And immediately following the trip the 21 operators reported that they did hear a noise like a relief 22 valve lifting on the turbine deck. And at that point the 23 operator, as I now understand it, put the pegging steam 24 controls from automatic into a manual mode, which basically 25 changed - would close those supplies to the heaters and that
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26 I then eliminated-the noise.
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2 EDISON: Isolated those valves. [
3 UHITNEY: Yeah. Well, yeah, isolated.' Shut them.
4 COWARD: He isolated the main steam supply to those
't 5 lines I think. -
6 WHITNEY: Well I've asked that question and the 7 answer did not come back that way. So I was surprised. I 8 thought he would have simply isolated all pegging steam 9 which is a ningle valve and it's one push. But that's not 10 what they're telling me that he did.
11 EDISON: So what did'hA do. What is he telling 12 you he did?
13 Wi1ITNEY: He put them from an automatic mode, 14 which is to control temperature in the feedwater, into a V(~T 15 manual mode which the operator than positions them whereever 16 he wants them.
17 EDISON: And then he just closed them.
18 WHITNEY: Well he put them in manual and that 19 did close them until the operator would take control of 20 the individual valves. It changed their state.
21 So that was the end of'it. He knew at the time he 1 -
12 knew at-the time he did that he had an overcooling in progress 23 and.since these had previously contributed to overcooling, 24 he wanted to get rid of that as a potential complication to 25 the overcooling.
(
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORWTION 3433 AMCR CAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 9&S75 TELEPHONE (916) 972=S894
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27 1 EDISON: And you have narrowed it down to these 2 fourth and second point specific valves as possible --
3 WHITNEY: Well pegging stcam is only supplied to 4 the fourth and second point heaters. And there is an A and 5 a B train. And each of those heaters has a supply control 6 valve to it. So what we have here is a complete list of all 7 of the valves that either supply or relieve pegging steam from a those heaters.
9 Now quite frankly we went through a quite elaborate to demonstration program af ter th e last trip which demonstrated 11 to our satisfaction that the fourth point heater reliefs 12 do not open. That their set points now are sufficiently low 13 that no transient conditions would cause those valves to
,3 14 open. The releaser is set sufficiently high over them.
V 15 The investigation at the present time is pointing .
16 toward the possibility that maybe a second point relief was 17 open, which may.have been entirely appropriate given the 18 fact that it's also relieving steam coming from the main 19 turbine, which is just tripped and is bottled up in there.
20 So that would be an appropriate thing.
21 There was a subsequent report that steam was seen 22 venting out of the drain hole on the above seat drains from 23 the fourth and third point heaters. That is not unusual 24 b ecause those are all piped into a common blowdown header 25 as is the second point. So if the second point had relieved D
b PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SUITE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 5394
28 I it would have filled that header with steam, that steam (4 '
2 would have risen to the top and would have come out those i t 3 turbine building vent holes. So that would explain the whole 4 thing, it would say it's a normal occurrence and we should 5 not be concerned about it here.
6 The reason why it might be interesting is that 7 we had this pegging steam problem on two previous trips. We 8 think we have completely resolved the pegging steam as a ;
9 problem but if we have not, then that would be an issue that 10 would be interesting. And I do not think that it in any '
11 way complicated or compounded or contributed to this event 12 that we're studying now. But in any case it would suggest 13 that we had not been satisfactorily able to resolve the G 14 problem off the last trip.
O 4
c 15 CHAFFEE: But even if it had occurred it wouldn't 16 have provided no significant contribution to the cooldown?
17 WHITNEY: No.
P 18 BAILEY: The previous pegging steam problem was 19 'n i the fourth point heater I believe?
20 COWARD:- Yes.
21 WHITNEY: It was on the fourth point and we 22 demonstrated again that by the performance of those valves 23 the.nnelves that -- what had happened on the fourth point 24 quite frankly was that those control valves had an overshoot 25 characteristic. They went to their subpoint okay but -- well i
PETERS SHORTHANo REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3594
29 I they both overshot but only one of them overshot -- one
\. 2 overshot about 20% of its set point. The other one overshot 3 about 5 to 10%. The 20% valve went up high enough that it 4 got the low set point tolerance of the relief valve.
5 BEARD: Then when you take into account the blowdown 6 of the relief valve --
7 WHITNEY: It would sit there --
8 BEARD: If it gets low enough it would sit there.
9 WHITNEY: And the pegging steam controller then 10 was just glad to provide all the steam that the relief valve 11 could handle. So that's how you got into that and we now 12 nave the set points so far apart that the overshoot can not 13 take it to there. It would take an actual failure of the
(~T 14 valve to cause that to occur.
V 15 BEARD: Dan, I think in view of the relationship 16 of these items, k) on down,to the event or I should say the 17 lack of a relationship, I would suggest that you put them on 18 your action plan along with other items that you would like 19 to investigate but not on the quarantine list.
20 WHITNEY: That's what we would prefer to do also.
21 BEARD: If the team is agreeable with that that's 22 my suggestion.
23 EASTOH: I don't see that it caused the event.
24 BEARD: How about you Henry.
25 BAILEY: Yeah, I can go along with that.
l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION l 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE SulTE A EACRAMENTO CALWDRNIA 95535 I
TELEPMQNE (916) 972 5594
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30 1 CHAFFEE: Okay. I'm kind of torn. Do definitely 2 put it on the action list. I know the reasons for wanting to 3 follow up on it.
4 COWARD: Beyond just a terminology thing, where 5 it says pegging steam pressure relief valves, those valves 6 are shell side release and they are not pegging steam release.
7 So in case somebody gets --
8 WHITNEY: Yeah.
9 COWARD: They are in fact shell side relief 10 valve. So we should be identifying them on here that 11 pegging steam pressure relief because they're not pegging 12 steam relief valves.
13 WHITNEY: On the fourth point heater there's 14 actually two reliefs on the fourth point heater. One of them 15 sits on top of the chamber where the pegging steam comes 16 in. And the other one sits on the shell.
17 COWARD: But they are both shell side reliefs.
18 WHITNEY: They are both shell side reliefs.
19 COWARD: The third point has no pegging steam and 20 it's identified as a pegging ~ steam pressure relief valve.
21 BEARD: Well you can correct the terminology when 22 you advise them.
. 23 EATON: Yeah, if we agree it's going on the 24 action list.
25 COWARD: But this is going into the record is why --
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
31 1 BEARD: Good point. I forgot about the record.
13 .
V 2 EATON: Let's explore that a little further. It 3 looks like you have some concern. y I
4 CHAFFEE: No, as long as it is true that this -
5 didn't have -- as long as the licensing can state that even 6 if one of these things lifted it had no impact on the cooldown 7 rate, I can understand the rational for not being on the 8 quarantine list. And you are prepared to say that, right.
9 WHITNEY: I did say that.
10 CHAFFEE: Okay. But I do know that because there 13 has been several previous problems, even if it lifts a 12 little bit, the Region is interested because we have this 13 litany of --
p 14 BEARD: That was my only concern.
( CHAFFEE: And I know that we're going to want to 15 16 understand how --
17 EATON: Well it did contribute to an earlier one.
13 CHAFFEE: See they did an operational functional 19 test after the last event and if this thing has a problem, 20 we want to know why that operational tost didn't -- because 21 that is a learning experience, to try to figure out why.
22 COWARD: That was limited to the 4A heater both 23 times. It did not effect second point heaters and the 4B 24 were not involved in that, in either occasion.
25 EATON: One quick question on this. The action of A
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32 1 the operators to make those close, was that taken as a result (m
2 of EAO57 3 WHITNEY: That is a step that is in EOS later on.
4 It's fairly far down the list of valves. In the cor.:3truction 5 of that list of valves, I don't -- that are to be closed 6 for purposes of eliminating an overcooling by isolating the 7 steam generators, I would have to go back there and look at a those,by function to determine whether or not that is a 9 prioritized list. But this isolation valve does come off of to that list. So what happened in the previous times when they 11 ran EOS, when they had this with the pegging steam problem, 12 they recognized that the noise was there and that this was 13 the appropriate action and jumped ahead on the list and closed 14 the valve and that, of course, solved the problem.
15 A little bit different than we would typically 16 like to go through in all of the symptom oriented procedure 17 but when you recognize what-the likely cause of the event, 13 it's better to do it that way.
Okay.
19 CHAFEE: George, one more. Can you go 20 through and tell me what the terminology error was in this.
21 COWARD: It says pegging steam pressure relief 22 valve on all of those for --
23 BEARD: Actually a shell.
24 COWARD: They are actually a shell side relief on 25 the heater itself. They are not pegging steam release valves.
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 ,
TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
33
, I CHAFFEE: I see. Okay. So the first items in
[V )
2 here are the pegging steam control valves and --
3 COWARD: That terminology is correct.
4 CHAFFEE: Then the second one is all the shell 5 release that if they relieve would relieve pegging steam?
6 COWARD: And the third point says pegging steam 7 pressure relief valve and the third point does not even have 8 pegging steam going to the third point heater.
9 CHAFFEE: Oh , I see.
10 COWARD: There is no pegging steam to that heater.
11 Either one of them.
12 CHAFFEE: But what is true is that --
13 COWARD: They do have a relief valve. The relief 14 valve number is correct. It's the third point heater relief 15 valve.
16 CHAFFEE: These are relief valves, they don't 17 have those temperature sensor things that they do on the --
18 COWARD: No, they do not.
19 CHAFFEE: Okay. We've agreed then that we will 20 take out all these pegging steam control valves and what are 21 in fact --
22 EDISON: From k) down.
23 BEARD: From k) down.
24 CHAFFEE: Okay. k) down to v), off the quarantine 25 list. And that the trouble in this area will, whatever its PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPilONC (916) 972 5394
34 1 term will continue on the action list.
k s 2 EDISON: Presume you will advise the Region, you 3 know, of your progress and what you find and so forth.
4 COWARD: Well I guess what you're --
5 CHAFFEE: Let me address that. The team will 6 do their thing. In addition with the team going out and 7 looking into the various things associated with the transient, 8 the Region will also be having some discussions relative to, 9 activities for starting the plant up. In the process of 10 doing those discussions, we will also get into this.
11 WHITNEY: As I would envision it here, from our 12 side, we would like to do much like what we have done with 13 you in the past. In other words, we write up a report which
/~'T 14 goes through and talks about all of these'different events U
15 and then leads to a conclusion as to the significance of each 16 of them and reports what we found and what we plan to do.
17 And in that fashion, resolve each and every one of these 18 issues. And there is many, many more then what really show 19 'up even on just the action list because other questions 20 get asked and become interesting.
O 21 We take and do an investigation and determine 22 whether or not that was contributory. And some of that 23 information needs to be passed on just so you have a 24 complete picture of the entire event.
25 EATON: It seems to me the interest in these PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. butte A BACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
35 1 really goes back to the previous transient, two months or O 2 so eso waere vou hea --
3 WHITNEY: We had a problem with them, we took 4 corrective action. We had a problem with them again --
5 CHAFFEE: Time out. We're running out of tape.
6 (Thereupon a recess was held to 7 change tape.)
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36 1 MR. EDISON: It goes back to the previous case so,
<~
(,), 2 you know, just a short letter to the region talking about this 3 that this came up again and how you resolved it and so forth.
4 I think that would satisfy it.
5 MR. WHITNEY: That's the kind of thing that we had 6 in mind.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: For the record, let me just run back g through what we've agreed to to make sure that we all 9 understand. Okay. Item A, which is PSV-20544, main steam 10 co-relief is on the quarantine list. Item B, FV-20527, which 33 is the aux feedwater control valve, is on the quarantine 12 list. Flow valve 20528-B, auxiliary feedwater control valve is on the quarantine list. FWS-063 and FWS-064, which are 33 14 the manual isolation valves for the A and B auxiliary r3 V feedwater systems are on the list.
15 16 The ICS system, from the breakers from the C and J 17 power stpplies through the ICS system is on the quarantine 3g list. The makeup pump, P-236 from the suction, from the 39
'first manual suction to the first manual discharge valve are 20 on the quarantine list. And that's it.
21 Is everybody agreed? Okay.
22 At this point what we'd like to do is talk about gg the scope of the program to go out and deal with this 24 equipment that's on the quarantine list. And so basically 25 what we're talking about is we're talking about a program
.]
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORNn0N 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594 k .
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i 1 which is going to trouble shoot valves, trouble shoot a pump l pb 2 failure, and trouble shoot a control system, the integrated 3 control system. And in looking at this program we're using 4 as a guide Appendix B to the Davis-Besse new reg.
5 And licensee provided in the meeting yesterday, 6 a memo and some examples of past trouble shooting practices 7 and a memo that provides the game plan for trouble shooting 8 activities during this event not only focused on items that 9 are on the quarantine list but basically all the equipment 10 that they have chosen to include within this program that's 11 on their action list, is that correct?
12 MR. WHITNEY: That is correct.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: So what we want to do at this point p 14 is go through and discuss this Appendix B and those items V
15 that we have questions with regard to the document that 16 the licensee gave. The document that the licensee gave is 17 brief, but it's brief because the licensee has within his 18 programs I guess as many '.tems. And we're going to.see if 19 we can understand that. So I guess what we'll do is we'll 20 start off and I think the easiest way to approach it would 21 be -- well, I'll start running down through these and 22 J. T. will come and talk as I need help.
23 The first one is -- well, first, do you have a 24 copy of this?
25 MR. WHITNEY: You're talking about the Davis-Besse?
5 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 l
TELEPHONE (916) 972-5894
rev ._
38 1 Yes, I do.
( 2 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
3 MR. WHITNEY: Unless you've got a spare one I 4 can mark up.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: I might. No, sorry, I don't.
6 MR. WHITNEY: Thank you.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. The first item in the the a first paragraph, specifically the second and last sentence.
9 I'm going to recharacterize it and say the following. We 10 think it's very important that the people that develop the 3; action plans, the trouble shooting and particularly the 12 trouble shooting activities to determine what the root cause y3 was for each of the failures, that that plan has either been 14 developed by or has been approved by somebody who has the 15 engineering and design knowledge that would be knowlegeable 16 of all the various features associated with that particular 17 piece of equipment. What was used at Davis-Besse, as I is understand, was a lead person in the group was a person who 19
- had that kind of engineering / design knowledge. Somebody 20 who was an engineer. Somebody perhaps who designed it or 21 is in the vendors group.
22 Exactly what the form of it is isn't as -
23 important as that type of overview and approval or involve-24 ment is there. Basically the concern is to make sure that 25 when they develop the thing they have full knowledge of all (vD PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (996) 972 5594
39 i the various aspects of the system. Does that characterize
('] 2 it about right, J. T.?
3 MR. BEARD: I think you did admirably.
4 MR. BAILEY: Rancho Seco's memo says that the 5 minimum reaction plan will be approved by Dan Whitney prior 6 to any work being started. Is that --
7, MR. BEARD: No, that's not the concept at all, g Henry.
9 MR. BAILEY: That's not the concept.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: No, because I don't think Dan would yy say he's an expert in every system that's been worked on.
MR. WHITNEY: You won't catch me at that onc.
y, MR. BEARD: I think the intent here was that you g might have an action plan to be developed that involved a bow.
k g You might have an action plan to be developed that involves 16 some electronics equipment. You might have an action plan 97 to be developed that involved a mechanical thing like a y, diesel generator.
19 All right, the engineer incharge of that development 20 should have either himself or have as a consultant to him 21 knowledge about the design considerations that went into y that equipment as well as maintenance and other considerations .
MR. WHITNEY: Let me tell you before we get too far 24 into the discussion how we are in fact putting this requirement 25 into effect.
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40 1 MR. BEARD: Good. I think that's the question
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2 that's really on the table.
3 MR. WHITNEY: In each of our action items, they 4 are assigned to an engineer and four cognizants. If ymi'll 5 notice on our action list, there are names on that action 6 list as to who those people are. In almost all cases those 7 people are the div'ision supervisor. Those people, I 8 believe, without exception, are engineers. Yes. And those 9 people have working for them usually a number of other 10 engineers that at the level that we referred to as a plant 11 engineer, those people typically will be, from a salary 12 standpoint, a senior engineer or at least an associate 13 engineer. They will have typically five to ten years or
- 14 more of experience; in most cases most of that experience
[#
15 is right here at Rancho Seco.
16 They are working b areas in which they have 17 worked in the majority of their time here and in our case 18 we utilize these people very heavily, not only for the 19 maintenance of the equipment under that function's 20 responsibility, but also for design modifications to it and 21 as a result of the significant amount of modifications that 22 have been going on in the last few years, these people have 23 been heavily involved in performing design engineering 24 functions or review of engineering designs that are proposed 25 modifications that affect the equipment for which they are bT V
AETERs SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPMDNE (9Hb) 973 8894
b 41 1 responsible. So these people have an extensive amount of 2 actual hands-on experience from the design and operating 3 basis of that equipment.
4 When I asked for one of these action plans, that 5 is the kind of person who is developing it.
6 Now, the purpose for putting my signature on the 7 action plans has been to insure that within that action plan 8 they have content that meets the program entry requirements 9 that we're putting in place here. And unfortunately a lot 10 of times these folks, because of the extensive knowledge 11 that they have, tend to be working on the minute details of what they do as important and essential parts. And they 12 13 need to have a broader perspective. That is something that r1 14 I do not get easily from the person responsible for the
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15 design of that system. And that's why I feel like I need to 16 be involved to insure that we get enough information out of 17 the effort to meet all of the potential interest that other 18 people might have in what they find.
19 So to that end I haven't had to change the 20 technical quality of what's there. Only the breadth of the 21 kinds of information that they provide.
22 MR. CHAFFEE: Let's take a specific case,ICS system, 23 Do you intend to have a vendor representative involved in 24 the development of the program?
25 MR. WHITNEY: We have a vendor representative f%
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m 42 1 involved, has been involved for the last four days in g
V 2 developing what kinds of things we should be looking at.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: Are you satisfied that that vendor 4 representative has a depth of knowledge and background to 5 provide the best input that you can have?
6 MR. WHITNEY: We asked B&W for their best ICS man 7 who could help us with the power supply program. And I am 8 confident that we have that.
9 MR. EDISON: Wait, before you go on, was the 10 scope of that investigation the kind that would look into 11 whether the redundancy and separation is adequate on the ICS 12 system and whether the design needs to be changed from the 13 design point of view?
14 MR. COWARD: We intend to address that as a q
J 15 separate issue. As far as design changes we need to make, 16 we're going to look at that also. We are looking at that.
17 MR. WHITNEY: The scope of this ICS design or 18 investigation right now is a trouble-shooting, fact-finding 19
- design. And if we find that there's a very simple problem 20 out there and that was the whole thing, then we need to take _ ._
21 a look at just exactly why did that simple single 22 failure exist and allow us to lose both redundant power 23 supplies and carry that on. And now I think you're talking 24 about a design issue which possibly is outside the scope of what we would ask one of our plant engineers to do. He 25
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( 2 go to our engineering department and tell them, look, we've 3 got a problem here with redundancy or whatever the situation 4 is, and ask them to propose and develop the necessary 5 modifications to make that system meet the reliability 6 standards that we expect of it.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, for these valve problems --
8 MR. EDISON: You don't plan to get them in it 9 initially.
10 MR. WHITNEY: Right now I don't have any reason 11 to believe that there's a problem with our redundancy.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, the trouble shooting function 13 at this point is to find the cause.
,77 14 MR. EDISON: The trouble shooting is, yeah.
1 N~/
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Right. That's what we're talking 16 about.
17 MR. WHITNEY: We're only talking trouble shooting 18 here as I see it.
19 MR. BEARD: Yeah, I agree.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Isn't that correct? We're trying 21 to focus on getting --
22 MR. EDISON: This is not the corrective action, 23 that's correct.
24 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. So the next question is to 25 find the root cause of these valve problems. Is your intent n
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMER 6CAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
9 44 1 here to use vendor representatives who are imported or do 2 you feel that your people on site have the adequate, the 3 requird amount of knowledge to do that on their own?
4 MR. WHITNEY: I have no reason to question our 5 internal knowledge on how to work on these valves, or how 6 to investigate their performance. Part of that is a 7 multi-disciplinary approach because these valves receive 8 control signals from the ICS and we have to investigate as 9 to whether or not they performed as we would have expected 10 them to, with the demand signals that they were seeing.
11 And the ICS people would be the ones that would handle that 12 part of it.
13 In a similar fashion, the, actual mechanical
- 14 performance of the valves, the hand jacks and that type of
/,
15 thing, is again within the capability of our engineers.
16 If our engineers do not feel comfortable with that or 17 there's a question that is not readily answerable with the 18 vendor manuals and the experience and procedures we already 19 'have in place, then they will be contacting the various 20 representatives from the vendors. But at this point no one 21 has suggested or recommended that we would call in a vendor 22 rep, for example on the auxiliary feedwater control valves.
23 We have no reason to suggest that we need to do that at this 24 point.
25 MR EATON: But your action plan will clearly
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RfVER DRIVE. BUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5394
45 1 indicate -- well, when they write up that action plan and l')
's / 2 present it to you, would it say that would be an option if 3 needed? Is diat it or is it just an assumption that that is 4 part of the process?
5 MR. WHITNEY: The action plan defines for us a 6 trouble-shooting scheme that we're going to go into. And 7 it includes a discussion of potential actions and the idea 8 there is we want to have an idea of what it is we're looking 9 for so that there is some targeted approach to the overall 10 effort they're doing when they actually start to work on 11 equipment.
12 The part that determines whether or not we need 13 the vendor involved or whether or not we need to change 14 the scope of the investigation is as we go through it if 7x L-] we develop information that says, look, we're headed the 15 16 wrong way, then we'll have to revise either the action plan 17 or duadetailed maintenance instruction which is actually 18 accomplishing the trouble-shooting and fact-finding.
19 MR. EATON: So that would come under the report of 20 as-found condition requried for taking corrective action.
21 MR. WHITNEY: Yes.
12 MR. EATON: Okay.
23 MR. WHITNEY: That way we've made sure we don't 24 lose that information.
25 MR. BEARD: When do you anticipate the action plan
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U 46 1 for the ICS to be?
2 MR. WHITNEY: They tell me it's in the typewriter 3 today. Typically on these I'm bouncing every one of them 4 back thefirst time around.
MR. EDISON: The aux feed valves, control valves, 5
6 are you including the position indication for manual control 7 on that at all?
MR. WHITNEY: Oh, boy. I don't have the action 8
9 plan yet. I have the --
MR. EDISON: And one of the questions you have to 10 yy answer is why 'did the first operator only get it 60. percent closed or whatever.
12 yy MR. WHITNEY: It's intended that this be a comprehensive trouble-shooting effort. And certainly 14 O 15 p sition indication is part of that.
As I have presently drafted the action plans, I 16 also have the sign-off on there for NRC review. And the y7 gg purpose there is, as far as I view it, is to make sure that
'from the scope of the program that we have developed, it 19 would then be one that you would agree that that scope is 20 appropriate to achieve what we say is the target of that 21 22 particular action plan.
MR. BEARD: We've already discussed the concept 23 f th NRC approval.
24 MR. EATON: Yeah, because you just said review 25 r
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47 1 herg but your plan says approval. And I guess we're of the 2 opinion that's inappropriate for us to approve, but certainly 3 to review and comment on when it comes under the approved --
4 well, but that's -- we haven't gotten to that.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: That's okay. That is our position.
6 We want to review an comment on them only.
7 MR. EATON: Yeah, not approve.
8 MR. CHAFFEE: That's fine.
9 MR. COWARD: What's the mechanism have that's going 10 to work? Is that going to be one of you folks here or is that.
11 going to be a local resident? How is that?
12 MR. BEARD: It's the team.
13 MR. COWARD: It's the team review.
fs 14 MR. BEARD: Well, we did atDavis-Besse -- I don't V know whether you even want to hear it. Do you want to hear 15 16 what we did at Davis-Besse?
17 MR. CHAFFEE: Yeah, go ahead.
18 MR. BEARD: When we spent a lot of up-front time 19 developing this general set of guidelines, the idea was is 20 that we were reasonably confident that any action plans 21 developed in accordance with those guidelines, that we 12 probably would have no problem with it in terms of generic 23 or systemic question. So that when we got the action plans 24 we looked at them just real quickly to see if they followed 25 the guidelines. And secondly we looked to see if the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. SulTE A
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V 48 1 technical content was appropriate for the device being (qj 2 considered. And we had some comments. We usually threw 3 those out and the utility came back and said, "We agree with 4 that and we'll incorporate it." Or, "We disagree with that 5 and here's why." And we reached a resolution on those 6 items. And at the end of the hour everything was agreed to 7 and the utility went off and did their thing.
3 MR. WHITNEY: And I think that's the way we 9 envision this thing working also.
10 MR. BEARD: I think that the instant investigation 33 team as it will be reconstituted will not want to be in the 12 position of actually giving any sort of approval.
33 MR. WHITNEY: You realize this was a proposal of 14 how we lay this thing out and we're not asking you to 15 approve it them. In fact we would prefer that it be a 16 review. The only question we really have is the one 17 George already mentioned, which is how is it that we want to 13 go through this process. I have a number of those action 19 ' Pl ans that are getting very close to implementation if you 20 will. So we need to start moving ahead on some of these.
21 MR. EDISON: The sooner you can get them to us 22 the happier we'll be.
23 MR. COWARD: Do you folks want to see any of the 24 actual work that's going on or will that be just as you--
25 at your convenience if you will? Once we have the action PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTC A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
F 49 y plan in hand, we can go off and do what that action plan says.
y MR. BEARD: Well, what they did at Davis-Besse, and I'm not sure exactly how this team will end up, was that 3
4 the region, okay, independent of the team, the region laid the requirement on that before the work starts that the regi n be notified, the resident officer, the inspector 6
representing the region, of what work was to be done at what 7
time, with sufficient advance notice so that he could bring to bear whatever resources the region might choose to do an 9
g appropriate inspection and overview in their normal sense of doing business. So the region provided that overview.
yy Now, clearly there's some items that are of high interest to the team that we would out of just normal g
g courtesy like to be aware of so that if we chose to we could V g go look at it. ICS for example.
MR. COWARD- That's obviously the prime interest 16 g over everybody.
MR. BEARD: Yeah, I think so. In general it's a y,
n rmal inspection that the region would provide. It's the 19 way it was done at Davis-Besse.
MR. COWARD: The normal mode.
MR. EDISON: One thing you-might start thinking about if you haven't already, and that's whether there's any kind of testing that might be needed prior to restart.
That is if you change a piece of equipment, you know, what 3
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50 1 kind of test are you going to do of that.
Q 2 MR. WHITNEY: Well, as a part of our normal course 3 of doing work, that work request involves a description of 4 the problem. The engineering disposition of how we're --
5 what we're going to do to that problem. And included with 6 that is a requirement for inspection and testing. And that 7 has to be specified on each work request. In some cases 8 there was no testing required and no inspection is required.
9 It's not the usual case.
10 So we would expect that's encompassed within the 11 program already. Sometimes we have to do a fairly elaborate 12 test. An integrated test. And it'll actually go to the 13 extent of writing a detailed test procedure to do that.
14 It just depends on the nature of what you're working on.
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Let's go off the record a second.
16 (Off the record.)
17 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, on the record.
18 I would propose that we continue on from this 19 ' engineering - . What I understand is that you have made 20 yourself a vendor available for the ICS trouble-shooting.
21 You intend to use the internal expertise within your own 22 organization for the valves at this time. And what he had 23 asked was what's your intention with regard to the pump.
24 Do you intend to get vendor assistance there or do you 25 intend to handle it yourself?
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V 51 1 MR. WHITNEY: As far as I know at this point, the Q)
N_ 2 pump will be torn down with on-site expertise. And 3 depending upon the findings at that point I think we have 4 usually on pumps called in the vendor and get him to start 5 making recommendations as far as whether you repair, replace, 6 or how you go about the repair. You should be aware that 7 we have a complete set of rotating elements and associated 8 seals and bearings for that pump if that were deemed to be 9 appropriate. And if it was simply just a remove-and-replace 10 of those components, probably you would not need the vendor.
11 But we have done work on these pumps before and we have 12 involved vendors.
13 MR. BEARD: Doesn't this particular pump have f3 14 problems with casing or something like that?
V 15 MR. WHITNEY: I haven't heard that.
16 MR. BEARD: I thought some of the photographs 17 showed some cracks and I thought --
13 MR. EDISON: Okay, we've been getting a lot of 19 questLons about that pump and there are people a thousand miles from here who don't know what's going on who are
~ '
20 21 worried that you've got a pump that's blown to smithereens 12 all over and that at somewhere in some other plant that 23 pump could blow next to another one and damage other 24 equipment and they don't know what's going on.
25 So could we somehow get a real description of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFD9NIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
52 ;
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1 just what happened to the pump and the status of the
( 2 casings?
3 MR. WHITNEY: Now that it's off the quarantine 4 list more or less, or we've focused on it we do part of 5 that.
6 MR. COWARD: Basically the pump responded as you 7 would expect it to respond. A pump of that design when you 8 shut the water off.
9 MR. EDISON: Well, I don't know what happens to it 10 except that it fails, okay?
11 MR. COWARD: It's a 6,000 RPM; I think it's a 12 nine-stage Byron-Jackson pump; has a shutoff head of over 13 3,000 pounds, very close tolerances. And we had one during 14 the startup program 11 years ago before we went loaded core,
~O 15 as a matter of fact, wire fell down inside of a cabinet and 16 started one without any water on it. And Byron--Jackson 17 will also tell you 30 seconds without~ water,the pump is 18 gone. This one ran longer than that. Looking at the 19 ' picture, we probably broke the shaft. . Well, the pump 20 seized up. The motor continued to run; it didn't trip the 21 motor out. It went down on amps about a third of normal 22 running amps. That's what we're talking about, this one.
23 This one did.
24 MR. EDISON: Well, we'd like to know if the 25 casing is intact or if you could use the casing again.
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(_ 2 until we get it apart. It may be weld-repairable; it may 3 be scrap. We don't know at this point. It is intact.
4 MR. EDISON: It is intact.
5 MR. COWARD: The casing is all --
6 WITNESS: The casing is all there. The parts 7 that were laying around the room basically was the seals.
8 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, I'd like to focus our 9 discussions back on the various criteria in this --
10 MR. BEARD: Are we on the record or off the 11 record?
12 MR. CHAFFEE: Yes, we're on the record.
13 MR. BEARD: I lost track there for a minute 14 with the interruption we had.
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, now, the next thing we had 16 in here, we understand you're going to review maintenance 17 and surveillance test history and use that as part of your 18 activities for the trouble-shooting. That's correct, right?
, 19 MR. WHITNEY: Yes, that's what we're doing.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Let's see. The~next one we had a 21 quesdon on was a change , analysis. We won't explain what 12 was mean't by that. What I understand is that sometimes 23 it's beneficial when you go to develop your trouble-shooting 14 to go back and look at what modifications have been made 25 to the system. Sometimes in reviewing those modifications
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
P - 1 54 1 it gave us sometinsight into the kind of causes that might 1
(] 2 be anticipated and therefore help' focus on trouble-shooting 3 activities. And I guess it's our belief that we don't see
, 4 how fou -- whether or not you intend to include that type 5 of review in developing your troublo-shooting analysis.
6 And I guess I'd ask if you could explain to us whether you 7 are or aren't or -- .
g MR. EDISON: Your Item 1 in your letter says s,,
9 you're gong t'o analyze known operational data for conditions 10 pri r to the transient. 'And I think what,we're saying is y, we want that interval prior to the transient to go all the 12 way back to the last successful operation.
yg MR. CHAFFEE: Operational data, what we'.re . talking 14 about-I. think is de' sign changes.
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MR. WHITNEY: Let's recognize first of all that 15 16 the onl'y^ failure that really seems to have occurred here 17 with respect'to the fact that the ICS got its power turned jg off, and the ICS had been in continuous and successful 19 operation up until the moment that that occurred. And 20 we had recently done maintenance on the ICS but not the ICS 21 p wer supplies. And indications since .he day of the trip 22 are that again the system is standing there operating without 23 any problems.
24 lui. EDISON: How about the aux feed control valves 25 failure and tha isolation valve failure to close manually?
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PETCRS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
M ss y MR. WHITNEY: Okay, those valves had been operated p
.i).- 2 several times recently and have not been modified or had any 3
heavy maintenance done on them so, you know, going back in 4 history looking for modifications that may have affected those, it doesn't look like it would be really fruitful in 5
that area. But I don't think that we need to really labor 6
about that. I think we've really covered it because we will 7
g be looking at the maintenance history on each of these
, devices. We have a very elaborate maintenance tracking 10 pr gram that allows us to find everything that was done to yy a piece of equipment including such things as modifications.
And that's part of this overall review of the maintenance and surveillance history of that device, to make sure what y,
has in fact happened. If there is anything to be gleaned g
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y, out of that that would lead us in an avenue'of investigation, we expect to pick it up in that process.
16 y7 MR. BEARD: So I guess a summary of what I y,
think I heard you say is that the concept of a change y, analysis is intended to be included in your item or reviewing the maintenance and information operational data that's in 20 g your letter.
g MR. WHITNEY: Yes, it is. -
MR. BEARD: Thank you.
p MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
MR. COWARD: I'd like to get a little better 25 i
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N 56 1 definition of what you folks interpret change analysis to 2 be now. I don't interpret that to say that we go back since 3 1974 and look at everything that's been done to the ICS.
4 That's not what you're saying.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: No, you go back to what would be 6 determined to be an appropriate time period.
7 MR. COWARD: Or if in a trouble-shooting event 8 you find, say, this was a problem, then you go back and say 9 have we ever modified that or haie we ever done anything, 10 that was tne way I kind of interpreted that.
33 MR. BEARD: Well, you've got consider physical 12 modifications, set point specs, changes, procedural modifications that, for example, say I now operate the 13 equipment slightly differently. And the example that I use
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15 is one that I was told many years ago by an air force pilot.
Maybe this will be helpful. At least I hope so. If you 16 17 kick the rudder to the right, the next thing you know 13 you're in a hard tailspin. Probably your best bet is to put the rudder back. In other words, make your last change, 19 20 undo it. That concept is go back and look and see what your 21 changes are or have been and make an assessment if there 22 have been any, and how they may or may not have contributed 23 to the problem. A set points adjustment on the power supply monitor could be one, if those have ever been checked, you 24 25 know. Maybe it's the fact they haven't been checked is
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pv 57 1 a significant item.
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() 2 We're saying: Go back and look for the change 3 if it may have contributed.
4 MR. WHITNEY: Well, that's a part of the 5 development of this entire maintenance history, so we do 6 have a comprehensive look at how the device --
7 MR. EDISON: Yeah, but it's a specialized look.
3 MR. BEARD: In a lot of people's plants, the 9 maintenance is separate from design changes and operational 10 Procedure changes and set point spec changes. And that's 13 the reason this here is a separate item.
12 MR. WHITNE*I: Okay. In our situation all of the 13 work done on any end item is collected under that end item.
14 MR BEARD: I think we've covered that one. .
G MR. EDISON: But we will take a look at procedural 15 16 history changes.
17 MR. CHAFFEE: Can I --
13 WITNESS: In maintenance procedures we would not 19 be going back looking for a change in maintenance procedures.
20 MR. COWARD: Unless we're doing something different 21 than we -- for instance, if you were calibrating the power 22 monitor. And we'd done it differently two years ago than 23 today, that would show up. Looking at our calibration 24 records and notes, you know, we shifted to a different 25 Procedure. And those areas where we think that that O
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w 58 1 would contribute, we have a way to go back and get that O
V 2 information, go back and review the procedure and say: And 3 why are we calibrating it this way today? What have we been 4 doing for the last ten years? And we can go back in history 5 and see where that was. If that makes sense.
6 MR. BEARD: I think we've covered that one 7 adequately.
8 .
MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, the next one here it talks 9 about devebping primary and alternate hypotheses for root 10 causes of the problem. You are doing that?
yi MR. BEARD: I have questions in that area when 12 y u get through. Go ahead and get your answer.
yg MR. WHITNEY: Well, ours is to develop a probable
$ 14 root cause. And when you look at examples of what the (d fellows are developing in their action plans, you'll notice 15 16 in there that they include a variety of things that they are -- have identified as potential root causes. We 17 yg haven't gone to the point of identifying them as primary
' and alternate hypotheses. You know, those are fairly 19 20 sophisticated approaches where what you're really doing is 21 y u're looking to potential failure modes on this particular
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22 end device.
But what we're trying to accomplish is to find the 23 root cause. We did not want to restrict them to only a 24 25 primary and an alternate or in any other way limit the O
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w-59 1 investigations. So I think we have done that in this I
%s 2 simplified statement that you will develop a probable root 3 cause of the problem. And pursue that. If it turns out not 4 to give you a solution, then you've got to go back and 5 develop a new one. It's -- in the past when we've put 6 bis program into effect, we have been very concerned that 7 we would come up with a finding that there was no root 8 cause for a particular event. And that has been basically 9 understood by most of our people as to that is not an 10 acceptable finding. And you've got to keep cycling through 11 this exercise until you develop a plausible root cause.
12 MR. BEARD: Let me see if I can give you a 13 response on that. First off, the terms " primary" and 14 " alternate" hypothesis were intended to mean nothing more 15 than what you just described. A semantics difference 16 between potential root cause and primary hypothesis, just 17 a different term. No difference meant.
18 The thing that we were thinking about was that 19 after going through all this background review, one should 20 say okay, based on this review and our experience with 21 equipment, like your engineers have had all this experience, 22 my most likely best-educated guess is this: A. But on the 23 other hand it could be B or C. They're just not as likely.
24 The reason for having B and C there is because you want to 25 make certain that when you test A you're not destroying O
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w 60 1 information for B and C. And the name of the game in the
/
k)m 2 whole trouble-shooting is to really test those hypotheses 3 to confirm or rule out those as the root cause. And so 4 I'm a little bit concerned if I look on the last page of 5 the document you gave us yesterday where ya2 give a famat 6 for your action plan that I would think that what you would 7 have is a description of the issue, the potential root 8 cause, and then an outline of hov you're going to test to 9 prove or disprove those root causes. And the concept of 10 going straight toward corrective actions I think is very, 11 very inappropriate. Misleading. So my suggestion would 12 be you have on your guidance that you give to your people 13 a place for them to write down what they believe are the
/"% 14 potential root causes and delete the part that says the O likely corrective action, since that's very misleading.
15 16 MR. COWARD: You don't want to discuss likely 17 corrective action at all?
18 MR. BEARD: I think it's premature.
19 MR. COWARD: Well, I mean --
~
20 MR. BEARD: I think it's premature to discuss 21 corrective actions before you've done the trouble-shooting.
22 MR. WHITNEY: I think we're talking semantics here.
23 Because that was intended to be -- to identify these potentia:
24 root causes that you were going to try to seek out. That's 25 certainly not well-worded. I can agree with you there.
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T5' 61 1 MR. COWARD: Oh, I see what you're saying. This O
k- 2 was intended to get all the alternates.
3 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, that's the idea was to come 4 up with some way of accounting for those. You know, if it's 5 the valve stem broke or if it's that the motor didn't 6 operate, those are two things we're going to look at.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Oh, I see. Okay. So a description 8 of issues, I understand that. This discussion of corrective 9 actions is intended to be a discussion of root causes, both 10 primary and alternate.
11 MR. BEARD: Well, let me give you an example of 12 what I'm trying to say. You gave us a piece of paper 13 yesterday which you said might serve as an example to
/~ 14 illustrate how these tnings are used. And I've got one here
(_)N 15 dated December 30th, Action Item List 11, Baker. And under 16 a discussion of likely corrective actions there are four 17 items and one says rebuild the hand jack mechanism, repair 18 or replace parts. To me that is very inappropriate for a 19 trouble shooting plan.
20 MR. WHITNEY: As far as a corrective action?
21 MR. BEARD: That's right.
12 MR. CHAFEE: Well, yeah, not that the correctivo 23 action is something you have to consider but right now 24 the problem is to figure out what went wrong. Obviously 25 you've got to figure it out then you want to fix it.
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7 62 1
But right now we're trying to focus on finding out what it
(" .
d 2 is.
3 MR. BEARD: You're creating a mind .-- you're 4 running the potential of creating a mind set that I think 5 could be'very adverse to the entire process.
6 MR. COWARD: My question was should we put in a 7 step ahead of that that says identify potential root' causes 3 or whatever. Possible root causes. And then the next 9 one is discussion of corrective actions.
10 MR. BEARD: My suggestion is in your action plan, 3j and this isn't very specific and I don't like to do this.
12 But on your form that you've got here you've got description of the issue after you identify the equipment, saying this 13 is basically what went wrong. And then you could summarize p 14 g5 all of your background material by just saying potential 16 root causes as the next entry. In other words it would be a 17 new entry as potential root causes or whatever term you'd gg like to use. And then follow it up by an outline of how gg
- you're going to prove or disprove those things, those 20 root causes.
MR. EDISON: An excellent example of this is the 21 22 ICS where tfiere are a number of avenues --
MR. BEARD: And then the last part that goes along 23 with that is to delete this category that says discussion of 24 likely corrective actions. That's my suggestion.
25 O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALerORNIA 96525 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
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W 63 1 MR. COWARD: Why would you delete that as being
() 2 the final item on your action plan?
3 MR. BEARD: Because the action plan, as far as 4 this team is concerned, goes up to the point that you've 5 identified the root cause, you've discussed it with the 6 NRC, and you reach the point that there's agreement, yes, 7 this is likely to be the root cause. It does not extend 3 to corrective actions.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: However, I understand your point.
10 Your action plan intends to go from now that we've got our 33 problem, this is what it is, but this is what we're going to 12 fix, and then we're all done.
33 MR. COWARD: Right.
14 MR. CHAFFEE: Your use, your action plan is this
('s)
'# has been developed from the fact that you want to find it 15 16 and fix it. And what we're saying is we want to find out 17 what the problem was. And then I think what they're 13 probably saying, as far as what you do to fix it, that will 19 tend, a lot of that will be outside of the group. So I think 20 what Ik hearing is, if you want to have corrective action 21 in here, I don't think that that is necessarily inappropriate.
22 It's just that the team is not going to be that interested 23 in that. Since the way it's formated, I don't know the 24 Problem in there. As far as review and comment, we're only 25 going to be interested in the stuff up to but not including D.
V PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEf* HONE (916) 973 3394
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64 corrective actions, although if it's there we 'll probably 1
take a look at it.
(m") 2 MR. COWARD: We've been mislead by previous S
investigations, Al, but there's been a lot of interest in 4
what is your corrective action.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: The region will be doing that.
6 MR. COWARD: So on previous times we had rolled 7
that in there in the program.
8 MR. BEARD: Yod haven't had an event where you 9 .
had an instant investigation come to your plan.
10 MR. COWARD: You're right. I hope we don't have 11 another one.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: I have a proposal here. I think IS that what we can do is we can meet the needs of the team, can meet the needs of the licensee and we can meet the 15 needs of the region by having all the stuff in the same 16 document and by simply recognizing that for the team's 17 purposes, their interest is with stuff down to but not 18 really including corrective action. If you want to have 19 corrective action there also, that would also be very 20 valuable to the region because they would be interested in 21 the entire document. Plus the fact that the entire document 22
-- it is one document so it could be utilized for the 2S convenience of the licensee as well. Do you have any 24 problems with that?
25 MR. BEARD: I guess my point was is to have the
/~~T U
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w 65 1 people even considering the corrective actions before they 13
(_/ 2 determine the root cause. In other words, it could be on 3 the form, but to fill that after you determine the root 4 cause. I just think it creates a mind set that's adverse 5 to the whole process.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: Can I suggest that you're jumping 7 to die conclusion based on the ease of the corrective 8 actions.
9 MR. BEARD: That's right. And I've see this 10 at other utilities. I'm not criticizing you folks. I'm 11 just trying to give you the benefit of my experience around 12 the nation.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Maybe what you could do is --
14 - MR. COWARD: It sounds like we need to break it
(~)
\/
15 up into -- even in our work request system, into two 16 work requests. We have a trouble-shooting action plan and 17 then we stop and close out the work requests and then we 18 write another one to go fix it.
19 MR. BEARD: That comes up later in discussion of 20 th Davis-Besse --
21 MR. CHAFFEE: In fact, if you do just exactly that, 22 that would be consistent with --
23 MR. WHITNEY: I don't have any trouble with doing 24 that.
25 MR. COWARD: That's for all the quarantine equipment O
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D 66 1 is what we're talking about.
2 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, I don't have any trouble with 3 doing that. That's a very logical approach and it does 4 insure that you separate the trouble-shooting and the repairs.
5 MR. COWARD: Let's do that. Let's --
6 MR. EDISON: And the responsibility of this team, 7 correct me if I'm wrong, now, guys, is only connected with 8 the trouble-shooting.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: Yeah, but I think more importantly is 10 what J. T.'s getting to, is that -- the fact that it helps
)) make sure that it's clear in the people's mind. Right now 12 the problem is let's find the problem. Then we'll focus on 13 th work orders and stuff to fix it later. That's separating 3, 14 de concept of having the ef fort of finding the problem being 15 clouded with, well, how hard is it to fix or what does it 16 involve or why are we worrying about that, let's find the 17 problem first.
18 MR. BEARD: And mother aspect, while we're on 19 *this, comes up a little later in the document but while 20 we're on it you may find, I think the team will find, that 21 it might not be prudent to proceed with the corrective 12 actions until there is general agreement as to root cause.
23 For example -- I'll make up a hypothetical case -- you do 24 some trouble shootingon equipment X. You think the problem 25 is Y. NRC looks at that and says we don't agree with that n
A PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A BACRAMENTO CALilr0RNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3894
afL J 67 1 at all. We think it's something else or we think something 2 else needs to be investigated because of other experiences 3 we've had at other plants. Or we have serious questions 4 about it. If the corrective action is already in process 5 that makes it very, very dif ficult to go back and do somethinc ,
6 okay?
7 MR. COWARD: We'll split it up in two pieces.
8 We'll write --
9 MR. BEARD: The point is, I don't think you want 10 to go ahead with the corrective action until --
11 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, you're bringing up another 12 issue. And that is tha the team would request that when you 13 believe you have determined the root cause that we team
'^ '
14 -- that you come and discuss what that root cause is with .
15 the team so that they can understand that and give you any 16 comments that they have relative to it.
17 MR. EDISONS: We're not going to comment on the 18 corrective actions.
19 MR. COWARD: That's why I asked the question 20 earlier as to what was your involvement once we had our 21 action plan developed. We're out there taking it apart and 12 we say, gee, this is broke. You know. And then you just 23 stop and sit there. You know, that was why, what was going 24 to be NRC's involvement.
25 MR. EDISON: When you get to corrective actionc s e PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5394
h2 68 1 there's going to be the region. And for those NRR's involved k- 2 with design reviews, SER's, et cetera, they will be 3 responsible for reviewing and approving corrective actions 4 and restart. Not this team.
5 MR. COWARD: So we pass the ball here when we get 6 to the -- then the ball passes to another group.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: What's going to happen is that the 8 region is going to be involved. And then as far as the 9 corrective action --
10 MR. COWARD: Well, let's just do it in two 31 separate pieces of paper. That's a red light / green light 12 for us.
13 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, have I got a clear understanding
'~'S 14 here of ele right terminology. Because is the team going to 15 actually approve the results of the trouble-shooting?
16 MR. BEARD: We're going to review it.
17 MR. COWARD: You're going to review the plan 18 before we go out to do it. You're going to review the 19 'results after we've done the trouble shooting.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Right. So for example --
21 MR. COWARD: You're going to review the trouble-12 shooting plan and the results of the trouble-shooting.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: When you believe you have determined 24 ele cause of the loss of ICS power, the team will want to hear 25 what that root cause is and why it is the root cause.
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P 69 s
1 MR. COWARD: How do you want to handle that? Do O)
( 2 you want us to --
3 MR. CHAFFEE: The best thing is to have a meeting.
4 MR. COWARD: Well, do we want to have a written 5 piece of paper we hand out, have you folks sign your name on 6 something?
7 MR. BEARD: Yeah, let's shift over, I think. I 3 would suggest to the end. Let's go to the end of this thing.
9 So that we can talk about this thing.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: You mean go to the end of the --
)) MR. BEARD: Yeah. Let me tell you what we did 12 for Davis-Besse, which I think is the point of departure.
13 We can modify that to make it appropriate to your plant and 14 your event. But what we did at Davis-Besse is we said the n'
15 end product of this trouble-shooting activity is to be an 16 engineering report, a written report starting out the first 17 couple items. Here's what went wrong, here's what I believe is to be the root cause that we've determined. And the rest 19 of that is supporting information to justify that this is the 20 root cause and the only root cause. You might find two, but 21 there's nothing more out there at this point. That engineer-12 ing report would"be reviewed and go from there. But because 23 it takes time between when you make the determination and 24 when you write it up so to speak, and because the NRC 25 desires not to be in your critical path any more than (9
\.)
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'b) 70 1 absolutely necessary, we built in an expediency step which 2 says after you've made the determination but you haven't 3 necessarily written it up, come let us know, typically the 4 next day, we'll call a meeting and let you discuss it, 5 present it verbally, and assuming there are no big rough 6 spots, go ahead with the corrective actions.
7 Okay, but it's good to recognize up front that 8 this is a very formal root cause determination process 9 that's being invoked. Because of the nature of the event.
10 And the end result is to be an engineering report saying 11 here's what's wrong and here's what caused it.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: In fact, if the cause turns out 13 to be very simple, the report can be very --
14 MR. BEARD: The report will be simple.
')
15 MR. CHAFFEE: -- very simple and brief.
16 MR. BEARD: Sure. It doesn't mean you have to 17 write a Ph.D. trieste on the subject.
13 MR. EDISON: You may wish to combine sorae of those 19 *into one report.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, we're talking about the 21 quarantine list right now. Which is basically valves, a 22 pump and a -- and the ICS system.
23 MR. EDISON: For example, 5028 and 5027. I'm sorry ,
24 0528 and 0527 aux feed valve. You may not want to send in a 25 separate report on each one. You may as well have one report. Part A is Valve 1, Part B is Valve 2, depending on 7-)
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71 I report. Part A is Valve 1, Part B is Valve 2, depending on I,,,1
\>- 2 the timing.
3 MR. BEARD: I'm speaking on a functional / conceptual 4 level now. I'm not talking about the administrative, 5 combining them under different reports and things of that 6 nature.
7 (Off the record.)
8 MR. BEARD: We're back on. But do you understand 9 the beginning and the end of this thing? And with that in 10 mind, I think that's why, you know, this has --it's desireable 11 to be in a certain format so to set you up into the next 12 step and it just flows.
13 MR. COWARD: I think you need two pieces of paper, 14 Dan. Change this over to be the trouble-shooting plan.
(~}
ws 15 MR. WHITNEY: I have no problem with that.
16 We'll put something up that will do that for you, and I think 17 it will be expedient for all of us. So - .
18 MR. BEARD: I mean we really put a tremendous 19 amout of effort at Besse-Davis to try to make an efficient 20 but desireable program.
21 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, we've already -- I guess we're 22 on Page B2, Item 1, which says that all action plans for 23 trouble shooting investigative work shall be reviewed with 24 NRC personnel prior to implementation. We've already talked 25 about that. And that's been agreed upon. It says that all O
\_/
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72 1 maintenance work orders related to the event shall be
- 2 handled as nuclear safety-related. Well, let me rephase 3 that. What we're saying here is all items that are on the 4 quarantine list, all the activities associated with that will 5 be handled under controls that are in place for nuclear 6 safety-related equipment. And yesterday we talked about that 7 and you said that that was your approach.
8 MR. COWARD: Well, that's what the memo said.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: Right.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: It says that QC will be involved.
11 MR. BEARD: Well, QC being involved doesn't l 12 specify the same level of involvement you would for safety-13 related equipment. And a lot of times in plants you have
(~T 14 failures, malfunctions of non-safety-related equipment LJ 15 such as a control system. And the normal involvement of QC 16 is not the level that you want for this event. That was the 17 intent here.
18 MR. COWARD: The words that went out to the people 19 ' were treated that way in the last two events.
20 MR. BEARD: Well, maybe we just need to clarify.
21 MR. WHITNEY: I think it's just a matter of saying 22 it in their words because we're doing it that way.
23 MR. COWARD: Okay.
24 MR. EDISON: If you agree to do it that way, --
25 MR. COWARD: That's exactly what our intent was, O
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7 73 1 and that was the way we treated the last two.
2 MR. WHITNEY: In fact, the people doing the work 3 are way ahead of us already. They're -- that's the degree 4 that they're working to right now. So it's not -- it's 5 just a matter of putting the words in here so that you 6 feel comfortable with it.
7 MR. COWARD: I guess, Dan, what I suggest we do 8 when we get all done is put together another clarifying memo 9 if you will, that supplements this thing.
10 MR. WHITNEY: What I would prefer to do is to 11 revise the memo of the 28th and put in there -- do it that 12 way and it keeps it consistent.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, the next one we've already 14 talked about is trouble shooting repair shall be accomplished
(~}
\.J 15 in separate maintenance work orders. We've already talked 16 about that. And you said that you agreed to do that.
17 Okay, do we need to talk about 4? No, we've alread: r 18 talked about that.
19 MR. BEARD: Number 6 we might want to talk about.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: ~ Ok'ay, and it says that, okay, in-21 sure that only current drawings and control vendor manuals 12 are used. Okay. How do you insure that that happens?
23 MR. WHITNEY: Okay, the way we've done that is 24 after repeated revisions to our overall site document 25 controls program we have, I think, been successful in getting O
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T 74 1 the drawings on site to be only current drawings and likewise 2 the procedures that are used in the control room and in the 3 various or in the vendor manuals for example in the various 4 functional shops in that part of the operation. Those are 5 all controlled and we have it that way. Everybody knows 6 if you have a drawing that's not freshoff the microfilm 7 it is not a valid, useful drawing. So that's the way we a control the stuf f.
9 Now, there's always that outside chance that you 10 would have an old drawing. But people know that they are 13 supposed to be using current drawings, just like as we make 12 this statement we have gone to great lengths to remove all 33 acces to non-controlled drawings and manuals. So we have administrative processes in place that stand frequent and p 14 15 repeated audits, that we have control of our documentation.
16 And that's what I would like to rely on.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay, the concern at Besse-Davis 13 was a little bit different than that. I think what you've 19 ' described is fine.
20 We wrote after Salem Atlas event a generic letter 21 8328 that talked about vendor-utility relationships and 22 keeping things up to date and this, that and the other.
23 Unfortunately we have had the same experience at some plants, 24 even today, or as of this year. There are still utilities 25 that may be using " vendor instructions that are not the most PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CAUFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
7 75 1 recent. As far as for what the vendor has issued. Not the O 2 moet recent von ve receivea. 8ut there's eti11 e see in 3 there for.some reason. The system hasn't been up and 4 running long enough to have reasonable assurance that it 5 is in fact true. I would think that as far as these 6 items are concerned, and the few items that are on your 7 action plan, that you could do some very simple, quick check a to make sure that your latest field change instructions 9 you received from the vendor are in fact the most current 10 ones and there's not a gap. It could be done simply with a It couple of phone calls and that puts the whole matter to 12 rest.
33 MR. WHITNEY: Well, we have already involved the 14 ICS, a vendor representative there. Of course, he's not 15 the manufacturer's vendor. It's a B&W man and not a 16 component manufacturer. But he has that broad overview 17 of what the configuration of the ICS should be.
13 MR. BEARD: Let me go on further. In our experience 19 with utilities around the nation, we've had situations where 20 the vendor representative was on site and he didn't even 21 have the right up-to-date stuf f. It's a very important step.
22 But I think it can be resolved with a phone call.
25 MR. COWARD: How do you cover that if the vendor 24 rep doesn't know what's the latest up-to-date?
25 MR. BEARD: What we usually do is we take PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 .
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is we take enforcement action against the utility for their rN l) s 2 lack of --
3 MR. COWARD: How do we deal with that? The vendor 4 rep says that --
5 MR. EATON: Ask him to certify. Ask him to sign 6 his name to something.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: The bottom line is to do everything 8 you can to make sure that you've got the right stuff.
9 MR. BEARD: It's a tough problem here. It really 10 is. It's a tough problem when a vendor rep comes in and 11 he's got out-of-date information. That's tough to work.
12 MR. COWARD: That's the reason you call the guy 13 is because he's supposed to come with the latest drawings 14 and the latest information. That's what we pay him for.
15 MR. BEARD: I know, but all I'm trying to relate 16 to you is that evenin 1985 those things are happening.
17 And we have to be careful.
18 MR. COWARD: I don't see that's a big issue.
19 MR. WHIDEN: I don't either. I'm just concerned 20 about th degree of assurance that we have. How do we go 21 about getting that assurance?
12 MR. COWARD: How do we get a certified piece of 23 paper? I don't think you can get that from anybody.
24 MR. BEARD: I don't think you need the piece of 25 paper right now. I think that if you make the phone calls
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77 1 and you call up your vendor and you say we're here on this n
(_) 2 phone call to confirm that the information we have is in 3 fact the most recent, and go down through the lists of what 4 you have, and he says, yes, that's the most recent.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: Let me give you an example.
6 MR. BEARD: Just write yourself a little memo to 7 follow. We did this on this day to clarify or reconfirm 3 that we had the most recent stuff. End of story.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: Let me give you an example of these 10 valves. Let's say that you revamped your program and you 31 went through and verified that that particular manual is 12 correct as of three months ago. And they may be in the 33 process of issuing something else. It turns out to be 34 prudent to give them a call and find that out. That might f3 O give you some information you didn't know about.
15 16 MR. WHITNEY: If I go back to what you say here 17 in Davis-Besse, it says assure that only current drawings is and confirmed vendor manuals are used. And that is not say 19 anything about going back to the vendor and assuring that 20 you've got the most current up-to-date thingthat he's cooking 21 up.
22 MR. BEARD: That's why, that's one of the reasons 23 why I'm on this team. To let you know more about the 24 intent instead of literally the words.
25 MR. CHAFFEE: I think all I'm interested in is O
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78 1 simply that you have a program in place that makes sure n
(_) 2 you use the most current drawings, the most current vendor 3 manuals. And to the extent you know your program, if your 4 review, your office or whatever happened to be not very 5 recent, that it would be -- that there is the potential that 6 there in some information out there that would be valuable 7 to the activity, that you would consider the possibility of 3 contacting people involved and make sure you have anything 9 that's current and up-to-date.
10 MR. WHITNEY: Well, consider the possibility is 13 a whole lot different than assure. I'm not trying to be 12 argumentative. I'm just trying to decide, how do we 13 satisfy you that we've done that? How do we even satisfy 14 ourselves? Because you know, for instance with the ICS, O~ there are literally hundreds and hundreds of components in 15 16 there that go back, you know -- I don't know if you saw them 17 or not but the ICS manuals themselves are a foot-and-a-half la long. And it's on both sides of every page and there's a 19 lot of fine print. You know, there's a lot of people 20 who participate in that.
21 MR. CHAFFEE: How about reasonable assurance?
22 MR. WHITNEY: We think we have that. We have 23 controlled manuals. And we only use the controlled manuals 24 for these kinds of uses. And we have a program where we 25 continuously update those manuals. In fact, you can go to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A SACRAMENTD, CALIFORNIA 95555 TELEPHONE (9f O 973 3394
79 1 to the I&C shop and look and right in the front section of 2 that are all the changes coming out, you know, they're 3 current, right up-to-date. So --
4 MR. BEARD: I think there's the secret to it.
5 Go back to your list that says here is the most recent 6 change we've got. Okay. And it could have been something 7 issued in 1981 you got something from B&W. Call up B&W 8 and say look, the last thing we got's this thing. Is that 9 in fact the last thing? And he says yes. End of story.
10 MR. COWARD: Dan's point is, how far -- to what 11 component part of the ICS do you take that? You know, do you 12 take that all the way down to the guy that made the module 13 or do you go back to B&W who sold us the whole gear and say 14 this is what we have --
0 15 MR. BEARD: No, go back to your vendor, B&W.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: I'll tell you what the problem is.
17 The subcomponents are provided by a variety of groups, and 18 the vendor, he may not -- does he have a record of 19 everything that's been changed since --
20 MR. COWARD: Not necessarily.
21 MR. WHITNEY: In fact it's just the other way around, 22 Like some of these ICS modules have been out of production 23 for years. And you know, all of the controls on that.
24 MR. BEARD: But I think we're making a mountain 25 out of a mole hill because the hundreds of modules that are
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- TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394 l
80 1 in the ICS are not the subject of your trouble-shooting
()
r 2 investigation.
3 MR. WHITNEY: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: And let's hope they're not. ,
5 The subject that you're trouble-shooting deals 6 with the power supplies and the power supply monitor.
7 That's your primary focus, I believe. So you're talking g about four copies of one box and one copy of a second box.
9 Now, where's the problem?
10 MR. COWARD: Unless you get into a subcomponent yy within the power monitor box.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: I think the way to handle this thing y3 is when you get into developing a thing, to focus on the
<s 14 Specifics.
s t .
- MR. COWARD: Maybe you're right. Maybe we're 15 16 reading you wrong, J. T.
37 MR. BEARD: I hope so.
ig MR. COWARD: Not that we're fighting. We want the y, 'most up-to-date information, obviously, to do the job.
20 There isn't any question about that. But we've also called 21 up vendors and he says, in vials for instance. We tried to put together a good vial catalog. And he called up the 22 vendor and he says, well, if you send me $500 I'll go back 23 24 in all my microfilm and I'll find out if you got the latest 25 drawing. Or give me 500 man hours and I'll got do it.
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITC A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95535
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81 1 Otherwise he says I may or may not have the latest n
U 2 information, but I won't know for a month.
3 MR. WHITNEY: And then we've got an example like 4 we hired the vendor for our turbine to come in and overhaul 5 the turbine trip module because it's a very critical component 6 and he retains all of the vendor drawings on that. So we 7 hired him and had him come in and do it and he used the 3 wrong drawings. He didn't use the current drawings.
9 You know, we had no way to QA that because we didn't have 10 the drawings either.
11 MR. EATON: Did you alert him in advance? I mean 12 did you alert him to your concern about this issue?
13 MR. WHITNEY: That was the only reason he was p 14 hired because he was the one.
15 MR. EATON: I know, but you might point out 16 to him or even show him a copy of --
17 MR. WHITNEY: Well, if they find out that this is la going into this forum for this purpose, they'll be real 19 quiet.
20 MR. COWARD: We want to meet your requirements, 21 J. T., but we're searching for how do we do that and satisfy 22 the team.
23 MR. BEARD: The only guidance that I can give you 24 is the reasonable effort is to make the phone call to the 25 first level. The first level is B&W. And say, you know, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATlDN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
, y <
82
%J 1 here's what we got. Can you tell us just by looking at 2 your record if this is the last revision. And, you know, 3 one-level check. ,
4 MR.. COWARD: We got that for the ICS, it's B&W; 5 for the aux.feedwater control valves, I think those are 6 Fisher, I'm not sure. ,And then we've got a main steam 7 and stresser. So we don'_t have that many valves. That 3 many components. Okay. We'll do what we can to meet;your 9 -- meet the intent of the thing.
10 MR. BEARD: I think that j sut the fact that we've 33 had to discuss it this long, you probably had a lot more in 12 mind than what was intended originally.
33 MR. WHITNEY: That's the part that gives us 3 14 concern. Because, you know, when we take these words and (D
15 try to interpret them and at the same time document that 16 we lived up to the letter of the commitment, we see this 17 as a very involved program in addition to what we already 18 consider to be a very; involved and adequate program.
39 MR. CHAFFEE: Maybe a way to approach this thing 20 is to when yoa get into it just simply make an evaluation 21 using reasonableness in terms of, yoa know -- 1 guess you're
~
22 right, it's difficult to put it in focus.
23 MR. EDISON: You know you can't be satisfied 24 using old drawings and uncontrolled manuals.
25 MR. COWARD: All of our manuals in the shops are PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORAT10N 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
83 I controlled and all of our drawings in the shops are controllect.
U, 2 MR. CHAFFEE: But you know what, actually, if 3 getting into this thing there is a situation where some of 4 these components do have very old drawings, maybe that's 5 something, maybe that is part of the problem. That maybe 6 some of the stuff isn't being controlled in terms of support.
7 MR. WHITNEY: It's not being supported is the 8 situation. This plant is now old enough that a lot of this 9 equipment is no longer in manufacture. And you think it's 10 bad after a ten-year-old plant, when we get to be 30 11 years old it's going to be even more of a challenge.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: What I'm saying is, maybe it's 13 important to have that pointed out. You know --
(} 14 MR. BEARD: If it's a dead item, you know, out-of-15 production item, I don't get upset that -- because the 16 normal process what you described I think is very good one, 17 that you got the most recent one; it's just the most 18 recent one is very old.
19 MR. COWARD: That's right.
20 MR. BEARD: It's just the current ones that --
21 MR. WHITNEY: That's the ICS. It's been out of 22 production for at least five years.
23 MR. COWARD: The drawings on those --
24 MR. WHITNEY: We can't even get them to make a 25 replacement module to the old design because there's not O
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l 84 1 enough demand for that sort of thing.
2 MR. COWARD: Well, we'll see what we can do with 3 that issue. I think we've got it pretty well covered.
4 MR. BEARD: I think the next one.was ten, wasn't 5 it?
6 MR. CHAFFEE: I've got 7 down here, which is:
7 Consider the need for vendor representatives. We've a already talked about that. And part of your effort here 9 is to do just that, to consider the need for vendor 10 representation.
33 The next one says maintenance workers must 12 clearly document the scope and effect of the desired 33 object of the investigation activity. Your-plan talks about
(] 14 that.
MR. BEARD: Let me mention, their desired objective 15 16 is to prove or disprove the potential root causes.
17 ALJ: Okay, and then -- okay, it says the is sequence of activity needs to be documented and the 19 ' maintenance work order or procedure specified in the 20' maintenance program. The sequence can be determined prior 21 to the activity date performed. Find that sequence and 22 provide a check-off for each step.
23 How -- to what amount of detail do you require 24 these kind of maintenance work orders, steps and --
25 MR. WHITNEY: That's a many-headed question. A (3
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
85 1 work request is basically one sheet of paper and it's got
('-] 2 several major sections on it. One is a description of the 3 problem; the next one is the engineering disposition 4 which would include the inspection requirements and testing 5 requirements. And then followed up with that is the --
6 (Off the record for 10-minute recess.)
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Back on the record. So we were 8 talking about Item 8, which was that the maintenance work 9 orders must clearly document the scope of equipment. And 10 we had just -- and you had --
11 MR. EDISON: J. T. had already mentioned the 12 desired objective and you were reading the middle of 9 13 at the time we went off.
14' MR. BEARD:- You had asked how they handled that.
,}
(
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. So then we have 9 as the 16 sequence of activities needs to be documented and the 17 maintenance work order or procedures specified h the 13 maintenance workorder. The sequence can be determined prior 19 to the activity performed . Find that sequence and provide 20 a check-off for each step. If the desired sequennce cannot 21 be determined-prior to the activity, as a minimum, define 12 the fundamental sequence to be taken and document each step, 23 the specific step as it is performed.
24 Is that the methodology that -- did you guys 25 conform to that? Is that what you intend to do?
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86 1 1 MR. WHITNEY: That was step 107 2 MR. CHAFFEE: 9.
3 MR. BEARD: Step 9. ,
4 MR. WHITNEY: Here's the way our work request and 5 work program goes. 'As I started to describe earlier, we 6 have a work request, and on that work request is a 7 description of the task to be performed, followed by a s description of the engineering disposition which is basically 9 the method that he wants to use, the procedure, the test, 10 the inspection, hold points, whatever has to happen in 11 accomplishing that work. Then that's followed by a 12 corrective action step which relates wliat they did, what parts they used and what findings they may have had.
13 14 Now, most often in the types of things we're 15 talking about here, the scope of the effort is so much 16 greater that you can't put it on that one piece of paper.
17 And for that purpose we have developed a document called 13 the maintenance instruction. And this is something that .
' 19 can be used to elaborate on maintenance events. In
! 20 some cases we've used those for fairly complex- evolutions --- -
21 like reworking of a pump or, you know, some many-stepped 22 effort which would'not already have-in place or be better 23 served by a standard procedure.
24 For the trouble-shooting like we're doing here, 25 the maintenance instruction is the appropriate technique.
O ,
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRtVE. SutTE A SACRAMENTO. cal.lFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973-5394 c.n -
87 1 And what they will then do is develop what is in essence (m)s 2 a procedure that steps them through the -- what they want 3 to accomplish to meet particular goals. And in that way 4 we can structure the work to collect the information 5 necessary for each of the targeted objectives of the 6 investigation. So that's a detailed document.
7 Now, I do not envision that you need to have that a review or approval type of input on that. That is the 9 technique, though, that we would use to accomplish the 10 action plan.
11 MR. BEARD: I think that the essence of this 12 Item Number 9 here is -- I think it is our intent that 13 we're concerned concerned about items being done in sequence 14 to the extent it's important to be done in sequence.
('S
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15 And so it would seem to me that you could have some motherhooc 16 statement that you could put at the top that says that the 17 following maintenance instructions shall be followed in la order unless it becomes impractical, at which time you halt 19 and reconvene your group and go from there.
20 MR. WHITNEY: Well, we have an administrative 21 procedure that describes the use of maintenance instruction.
22 And it sets up the bounds of how it's to be used and what 23 kind of approvals it has to have and its intent and scope.
24 That's in essence what it does accomplish.
25 MR. BEARD: Oh, so you got that in your O
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88 1
administrative controls and maintenance instruction.
!g 2 MR. COWARD: That's right. A special procedure 3 for maintenance instruction tells you what the limits, say, 4 they cannot replace a procedure to rebuild a makeup pump.
5 You can't use a maintenance instruction for that. And for 6 trouble-shooting it says -- and it's got a form, you fill 7 it out. It gets signed by senior engineers.
3 MR. BEARD: And it provides that the steps are to 9 be done in sequence, too?
10 MR. WHITNEY: Well, he defines the sequence that 13 they are to be done in and for instance, we recently did 12 th ICS tuning program and much of that was done under that 33 kind of process. It was a repetitive process going through 14 the certain steps and then when they got the certain ones 15 concluded they could go on to others. The program allows 16 itself to be flexible enough to admit to change, meaning 17 that if they get partway through a process and determine 13 that there's something that they should amend, in other 19 'words they want to look at a device that they did not 20 anticipate being interesting now it suddenly becomes 21 interesting, there's a process for them to add that to the 22 maintenance instruction. The beauty of it is it causes them 25 to sit down set out in a step-by-step fashion before they i
24 begin to do the work, a description of what it is that they 25 are going to do.
!O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CDRPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5894
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89 1 MR. BEARD: I think this is beautiful, because 2 the whole essence of the question was: We like this concept.
3 Tell us how you guys do it. And you've done it. I think 4 that's the end of the discussion.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
6 MR. EDISON: Just one interjection. A light bulb 7 just went on. We recently had an ICS tuning program. Has 8 it crossed your mind that the tuner may have severed a 9 string when it was tuning?
10 MR. COWARD: It had, but the tuning program, quite 11 frankly, was the interface of how the plant response that was 12 setting gains on the various modules and things of that 13 nature. It was not going in and modifying modules and f.- .- 14 things of that nature. It was basically adjusting.
15 MR. WHITNEY: It was getting the dynamics of the 16 response of the valves and the feed pumps and that kind of 17 thing to be in balance.
18 MR. COWARD: As a matter of fact it was very 1
19 successful because when we came up on Christmas Day, the 20 operator said they had never seen this plant escalate power 21 as smoothly as it did on Christmas. Very, very smooth.
22 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, let's talk about the next 23 item, which is document on the maintenance work under all 24 as-found conditions. Basically our comment there was we 25 think that the guidance that's given in here in terms of the O
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90 1 detail and ideas of type of information would represent G
V 2 information of interest when pu're documenting the as-found 3 condition. You should consider the type of guidance you 4 want to make sure your people have in mind when they go 5 to the effot of identifying the as-found condition. For 6 example, the valves out there. When they identify the 7 as-found condition they should be very specific. There's --
3 when we went out and looked at them we saw -- you could see 9 where paint had been scraped and stuff. There's a lot of 10 -- you could see how the thing would sag. The manual 11 operator. So a concept was that maybe you had in your 12 existing programs -- we think it's important to help define 13 clearly to people, you know, the amount of detail that you 14 want in terms of description of the as-found condition.
15 MR. COWARD: Maybe for this particular instance, 16 since we are totally separating trouble shooting from the 17 corrective action, we set out to make that a little more is specific in this particular case.
19 MR. BEARD: Let me ask you while we're on this:
20 On the form that you gave us as an example, beginning of 21 the second page, it says, " Report of as-found conditions 22 is required before taking corrective action." What was 25 the extent of -- it seems like on this example you get a 24 yes or no answer?
25 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, because some of these items O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPMONE (916) 973-5594 r..... .._ _.,. . _ _ . _ - ... ._ _. .j
91 1 that we are applying this program to would not require a o
(j 2 formal report. In other words, we were using a one-work-3 request-approach.
4 MR. BEARD: Yeah?
5 MR. WHITNEY: We could do our trouble-shooting on 6 the first part of the work request and if we get confirmatory 7 that yes, that is the right approach to be following, the g right path; you've identified the right root cause, proceed 9 directly into the corrective action on it.
10 Now, this was meant to identify those that you were 33 interested in compared -- and wanted to have review on, 12 opportunities on before we proceeded into corrective action, g3 MR. BEARD: But if you get to this point in 14 the process, if you get to this point in the process you've already done your trouble-shooting, right?
15 16 MR. WHITNEY: This was intended to be at the end 17 of trouble-shooting before you go into the corrective action gg phase.
39 MR. BEARD: But recognize that the as-found that 20 we're talking about is at the very beginning of trouble-21 shooting. In other words, before you start your trouble-22 shooting, you walk up to the equipment or you do sort of a 23 section of it --
24 MR. WHITNEY: No, it doesn't work quite that way.
25 MR. BEARD: No, I'm telling you what we wanted.
O PETERS SHDRTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, EUITE A SACRAMENTD, CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3594
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92 y MR. WHITNEY: But understand that when you do
() 2 work, not all work that you do allows you to fully 3 understand the as-found condition when you approach the 4 device. For instance, when we take apart that manual 5 valve, the as-found condition is it sits there and looks 6 just like a perfectly fine valve. And as we start to then 7 disassemble it, you know, we're well into the operation g and we're still in the -- we're finding things as we go.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay, but the intent of this Item 10 Number 10 as far as the way we used it at Davis-Besse was yy different. That's the point I'm trying to convey to you.
MR. CHAFFEE: Well, let's take the valve for 12 13 example. In the case of one of those valves, one of the s 34 things you can do in the determining the as-found condit' ion d is go out and look at the exterior valve, which there are 15 16 indications of how much force the guy put on.
37 MR. HEBDON: Look at the shaft. It's all ig corroded.
MR. CHAFFEE: For the check valve, I mean the 19 20 gate valve -- for the gate valve, when you go out and move 21 into a visual inspection of that you'll notice that the 22 yoke of the packing is caulked. That to us would be 23 something significant that you would identify as an as-14 found condition.
25 The one valve, I think it's the A-train, when you (9
d PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER ORtVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
93 1 go out and look at that you can specifically see that the
( 2 manual overruled is drooping. You can see the amount of 3 force the guy did by the fact that the paint is scraped.
4 Okay, you can also -- part of the visual inspection I think 5
would consist of taking pictures of the thing, in terms of 6 showing how -- that's the kind of thing we had in mind.
7 Now,you're right, as you then get into it, you g might start taking it apart and when you get a certain part 9 apart you'll find another as-found condition. Something is 10 broken. Again, that would want to be documented. That's yy the --
MR. WHITNEY: Yeah. No, I understand the 12 y3 difference of those initial conditions, are actually a
-y4 description of a part of the problem. That's the way I was doing it. So, like when we send people out to check 15 sub points, you know, we go out and they do it, they set 16 37 up their instruments and they measure the as-found set point y, on the device and record that and then proceed on into the
-- actually the calibration. And at that point they may 19 20 very well discover another finding which has to be then considered in the overall approach.
21 We will beef that up and I don't see any problem 22 basically in encompassing the same type of things as 23 24 what Davis-Besse did.
25 MR. BEARD: That same item number spills over to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
94 1 the next page. Let's go on to Number 11, I guess.
(m) 2 Number 11 was intended that as you go down through 3 this trouble-shooting plan you developed and something comes 4 up that was not anticipated, as it frequently does, that 5 rather than making field changes to the procedures and going 6 off on an unprepared path that the work would be stopped 7 long enough to reconvene to people who wrote the procedure 8 and decide where to go next.
9 MR. WHITNEY: Okay, under our maintenance 10 instruction program --
11 MR. BEARD: Your admin procedures associated with 12 maintenance instructions.
13 MR. WHITNEY: -- we require -- we allow them to 14 make changes, but they have to go back to the beginning
(_s 15 to get approval of those changes before incorporating them 16 into the process. So in other words you may be the 17 associate engineer out in the field accomplishing this is particular procedure. And you get to a point that you need 19 'to revise the procedure because of some finding. You go 20 ahead and you make those revisions and thenyou must go back 21 to the supervisor and approve that thing originally and get 12 an approval to proceed. So in essence it's like starting 13 over.
24 MR. BEARD: Fine. So that's covered in your 15 administrative procedures associated with maintenance
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95 1 instructions.
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( 2 MR. WHITNEY: Yes, it is.
3 MR. BEARD: That's fine.
4 MR. EDISON: And the action item lead guy is the 5 guy who would approve the change?
6 MR. WHITNEY: In this case we're talking -- yes.
7 The originator of the procedure who approved it in the first 8 place, and --
9 MR. EDISON: No, I'm talking about the responsible 10 guy on the. action list.
yy MR. WHITNEY: In many cases, he would be the guy 12 who approved that. In some cases I've approved them. It yg takes two approvals. You can't just be the guy who cooked 14 it up and also approve it. It gets review approvsl by a*
15 higher authority.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: I guess one of my questions I have 37 is that -- let's say they get in and they find out that yg something else is of interest. So they want to go marching 19 down there so they change the procedure to pursue that.
20 The guys that wrote the procedure, like you said before, 21 are very narrow in their focus. And there was a need, because 22 they do a good job with that, there's also some general 23 administrative things that have to be considered that you 24 were taking care of. If the guy that was narrow in his 25 focus was the one that approved the changes, yet it didn't i 4
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96 1 get a review by you who took in account the other stuff, then U, 2 that review process might not include all the various 3 concepts of people if they were all interested in being 4 included in the changes.
5 MR. WHITNEY: Well, these changes that they are 6 allowed to make are only allowed as long as they do not 7 change the intent or the purpose of the investigation that 8 they are doing. So -- and our people are quite practiced 9 in determining whether or not they have exceeded the bounds 10 of the purpose and the scope that they were given. So if 11 there's any error to me to be made, they make it in the 12 direction of going back and getting the additional approvals 13 rather than taking the chance that, well, this is probably within
<^ 14 the scope of what was intended. So the real bottom line 15 on that is that any time these people are interfacing with 16 operations, operations typically is, a supervisor in 17 particular is extremely skeptical of all changes. And he 18 puts a very jaundiced eye on any such things.
19 And so if they're working with equipment in the 20 plant that's associated with operations, there's another 21 review of it that keeps them focused on the intent and 22 purpose of the approved procedure.
23 MR. BEARD: I'm happy.
24 Going on down, the next one that I want to talk 25 about is Number 14. Did you have one before that?
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. butte A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973-8994
97 1 MR. CHAFFEE: 13 says part of doing any repairs, 2 you have to have all the investigation documented as 3 complete. That's your intent?
4 MR. BEARD: I think we've sort of talked all 5 around this one. You're saying you've got to separate this 6 and make it a two-step process.
7 MR. COWARD: Yes. All of the stuff on the a quarantine list will be a two-step process.
9 MR. WHITNEY: I think that that pretty well gets 10 around. That is being a problem. By process you have 11 eliminated repairs from the --
12 MR. HEBDON: So the repairs won't start until 13 it's taken off the quarantine list?
14 MR. BEARD: Until they come back to the team and
(^}
v 15 discuss what they determine to be the root cause.
16 MR. HEBDON: Okay.
17 MR. BEARD: And we've had an opportunity to 18 consider that.
19 MR. WHITNEY: And then if it's agreed that that is 20 plausible that the corrective act' ion would be appropriate to 21 proceed then we do that.
22 MR. BEARD: I guess we're over to Number 14.
23 Let me tell you the intent of that one. The intent was 24 01at the nuclear facility engineering and quality engineering 25 groups at this particular facility had agreed that they woulcl O
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l 1 not give their approval for any equipment that was to be b
v 2 shipped off site until the NRC had been made aware and had 3 given their approval for those engineering departments.
4 The idea behind it was, suppose you find a broken widget 5 someplace. The NRC would like to reserve the opportunity 6 of having that taken to an independent lab someplace if it 7 was a super critical item. It may not apply in this case a but the concept was we want to make sure that it's done 9 right and not sent off someplace before we're even aware 10 that it's gone. And it's at the proper controls and that's it why the second part of it is the term Q-listed type purchase 12 order. I assume you have a similar type situation which 13 basically says it will be done with all tender loving care, r~'s 14 Class 1 piece of equipment, in the shop that it's going to.
O 15 You know.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: In this case it might come down to 17 the power monitor. I don't know what you're going to find 13 but maybe you'll have to send somebody to research.
19 MR. BEARD: Like Bailey-Meter.
20 But the intent was that nothing went off-site 21 to NRC was involved in that decision. And I guess the 22 question I've got is how do you folks provide for that kind 23 of a concept?
24 MR. COWARD: Well, in this particular case with 25 the two work requests, if it -- if we did all the trouble PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING c0RPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 973 5594
99 i shooting here on site, we wouldn't need to do the corrective O 2 ection to the go1ne of 1eevine the site.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, not necessarily, though.
4 You might do your trouble shooting activity and get to the 5 Point where you recognize -- you don't know what's wrong 6 with this thing. Or no, this thing needs to be done by an 7 outside organization that has additional facilities.
g ,
MR. HEBDON: Lube oil samples on the makeup pump 9 or something like that.
MR. BEARD: You might decide it's on this printed 10 yy circuit board, but if you follow the shop manuals it says don't attempt any repairs in the field. Send it back to 12 yg the factory. And you might very well come to that. -We p y4 know it's in this box, on this one board. But we're not g ing to trouble you to that degree here. It goes back 15 16 to Bailey and we'll have them do that for us.
37 MR. COWARD: Well, that's not a one-person decision yg if that's what you're looking for. If we make that 19 decision there are approvals, you know, on the bi-level 20 that's requited to ship that off to get it --
4 21 MR. BEARD: Granted, George, but --
22 MR. COWARD: You folks want to be involved in this?
MR. BEARD: Yes. My question is, how will your 23 24 Program provide for the kinds of things described as the 25 intent of Number 14?
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100 1 MR. COWARD: You want to be only involved in
/ \
')
s 2 trouble-shooting efforts; if it's repair efforts then the 3 ball shifts to another court.
4 MR. BEARD: That's right.
5 MR. COWARD: Okay. Now, lets just address that 6 that if there is anything to be shipped off site or trouble-7 shooting or analysis to determine group cause, then this a team will be notified.
9 MR. HEBDON: Basically, I think what it comes down 10 to is anything that is to be shipped off site that's still 33 in the quarantine list.
12 MR. WHITNEY: I think what it really boils down 33 to is to state that we have -- are going to be developing
~
. 14 action plans for truble shooting all this equipment. And 15 y u folks have a review of those action plans. And if that 16 action plan suggests that this device should be going off 17 -- it's going to be -- right now we don't envision any of 18 those, okay? So we approve the plan. If we change the 39 ' scope and say this device needs to go off, I see that to be 20 a vervision to the plan. And & tat again cycles it back to 21 your review. So I think that's the way to handle it.
22 MR. BEARD: All right, if you add a sentence g3 that just describes that, because that's the mechanism, 24 so that it'll take care of things going off site, I think 25 that will suffice.
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l w PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE BulTE A SAC 1EAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972-3394
101 1 MR. EDISON: Ask them to notify him. You or you m -
h 2 or somebody that's got control.
3 MR. COWARD: Well, any revisions to the action plan, 4 what Dan was saying, would come back to him, I think.
5 MR. WHITNEY: That's right. And if I revised 6 any of the action plans on the Q list, then it's going to 7 come back through here. So I think we will handle it in 8 that way and that would be a very effective tool for ,
9 controlling it.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, now another aspect of this 11 thing is it says the use of Q purchase order process to 12 obtain these approvals. What I think they're applying there 13 is that if you do send something off site, the concept was
,q 14 to insure that what the people off site do is consistent LJ with all this game playing we're talking about. That they're 15 16 going to provide the same type of product that can --
17 MR. COWARD: In this case that's a given, because 13 we wouldn't send it to anybody's shop unless we went with 19 it to witness it or we were, you know, very comfortable 20 that they knew what they were doing with it.
21 MR. BEARD: All we're saying, George, is that we 22 got the document last night, and it's not obvious that that 23 was your intent.
24 MR. COWARD: Other controls would make that happen.
25 You would not address them by memo absolutely. That's true.
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102 l
1 Is it my understanding that once you folks have 2 bought in that we have found the root cause and we're ready 3 to move to the fix-it phase, that it then comes off the 4 quarantine list?
5 MR. BEARD: .That's the way we did it at Davis-Besse .
6 The new leader has arrived, you understand, with the --
7 MR. COWARD: .That's why I was asking the question 8 in his presence.
9 MR. HEBDON: No, that seems to make sense. That 10 seems like a logical demarcation point. Our concern is the yy root cause; the repair is obviously up to you.
Now, needless to say, in the course of repairing 12 y, it if you find something that is totally different than what 14 they had envisioned or what they had thought in the course O y$ of trouble-shooting, then we'd like to go back and revisit the subj ect.
16 j7 MR. WHITNEY: That's why we captured that data.
yg in the process of doing that. So we have some traceable way to go back to where we should have gone.
19 MR. EDISON: After we get off 15 here, we'll get 20 around to this engineering report.
21 22 MR. BEARD: We've already discussed that. I don't see that we need to discuss it again.
13 24 MR. EDISON: They're going to submit it, right?
25 And are we going to ask our staff to evaluate it?
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103 1 I mean headquarter staff, I don't mean the team staff.
O ss 2 MR. BEARD: I think a lot of it depends on timing.
3 Now, at Davis-Besse there was a lot of equipment involved 4 and a long time involved between the event and the 5 determination of the root cause for the last piece of 6 equipment. And it was decided by senior management folks 7 that the team per se would be considered their job done 8 and that review of the root cause report would be done by 9 the normal line organization. But I think that was largely 10 dominated by timing.
11 MR. HEBDON: That was timing. That was more a 12 matter of wanting to get the report out and not sit on the 13 report any longer.
/"N 14 MR. BEARD: Yeah. I can envision that it's U possible that all this could be done in the next three weeks 15 16 and the team would do bat. It depends on the complexity 17 of the problem. I can envision if it stretches out months, 18 maybe one item, that last item, could be reviewed by 19 somebody on the staff rather than the team. So I really 20 can't give you a definite answer. It could go either way.
21 MR. EDISON: Are you suggesting that this equipment 12 should come off the quarantine list and the corrective 23 actions begin before the engineering report on the root 24 cause has been evaluated?
25 MR. BEARD: My personal opinion is that no PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTD. CAL 8FORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
104 1 corrective action should start until the NRC has agreed that 2 root cause is identified.
3 MR. HEBDON: And that's done when the engineering 4 report is done.
5 MR. BEARD: Well, it could be done by the team 6 and the result -- or as a result of a presentation. Part of 7 the report being written. We had some discussion about this 8 earlier that --
9 MR. HEBDON: Okay.
10 MR. BEARD: The difference between when you know 11 the answer and when you've got the full report written.
12 It could be done taht way. But the point is, the NRC's had 13 an opportunity to have the information presented to them 14 either in written or verbal form or a combination, you know 15 with notes and handouts and cartoons and whatnot. But 16 you got the information, you review it. You make the 17 conscious decision, we agree with it or we have problems 13 with it.
19 MR. EDISON: But there's a potential problem there 20 and that is that if we do that and we go through the l 21 presentation and we agree they got through, start corrective l
22 action, they submit an engineering report back to head-l 23 quarters and we get new people involved back there evaluating 24 this report and they start asking different questions, and l
! 25 maybe that guy is not satisfied.
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105 1 MR. BEARD: That's an administrative internal NRC r\ problem that we'll have to address amongst ourselves.
b 2 3 MR. EDISON: That's right.
4 MR. BEARD: But the point is, the leader of the 5 IIT has given a release of equipment, that equipment's 6 released, period.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Also, I assume what you'll do is 3 you'll sit down and in each case-by-case point you'll have 9 a discussion to decide how best it would be handled and 10 you'll probably caucus also with people outside of the yy team to get some input from them on how they feel about it.
12 So it's a full-front effort.
33 MR. " BEARD: But I would like to reemphasize 14 for the record that clearly everything that you've done em U 15 has been geared toward avoiding to the maximum extent 16 .possible any holdup in the licensee's activities because of 17 NRC reviews. We do not like to be in their critical path 3g and hold them up.
i 19 (Brief recess.)
i 20 MR. BEARD: Okay, did we finish 14? I believe we did.
l 21 22 MR. CHAFFEE: Yes. We were on 15. -
l 23 MR. BEARD: 15. Dan, this is an item we discussed 24 a little bit last night, this concept of traceability. I 25 think we explained it fairly completely last night. Do you I
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATluN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A
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106 1 have any questions? Or do we need to go over that again?
~O V- 2 MR. CHAFFEE: I'd like to talk about it a little bit, 3 As far as this traceability goes, I think the concept that we 4 have in mind is that one would be able to, from the 5 documentedrecords, understand what happened to the piece of 6 equipment once you start the trouble-shooting effort which
'7 would include, if you decided to send it to a vendor there 8 would be some documentation addressing how, you know, what 9- controls were going to be included, what's the vendor and 10- I guess basically something that shows this litany as it's 11 processing through the various activities associated with 12 it.
13 MR. WHITNEY: My answer to that is I believe that 14 the maintenance instruction work request process that we have 15 in place will accomplish that for you. As an example, if we 16 get to the point that we decide to take one of those gate 17 valves apart and rebuild it, it will end up with either 18 maintenance instruction or a procedure which will cause us 19 to pull out the old components and put in the new 20 components. And we'll document each step along the way.
21 Included in there will be the hold points for 22 inspection by a quality control group to insure in fact 23 that we do the right dimensions and put the right components
, 24 in in the right order.
25 So that gives us that kind of traceability. If a i-
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107 l l
1 device is to be sent out for analysis or for calibration,
() 2 it will also go out under an appropriate procedure and I 3 can't promise you exactly what the name and the nature of 4 that one is going to be. I can assure you it would be 5 equal to or greater in its scope and detail than what it would 6 be to stay on site for its own effort.
7 And as George already mentioned to you, there's a 8 very good chance that we would also be sending an inspector 9 or an engineer with that component to wherever it is going 10 to go to physically witness and participate in whatever yy is going to happen to it.
12 So I believe we have in place the administrative yy process necessary to guarantee that we have traceability in terms of how to document our findings, that the findings fs j4 15 were done in a sequential order; that those findings lead 16 directly to the conclusion as to what the root cause was, 17 and that we would be able to defend any actions taken along yg the way.
19 MR. BEARD: Is your process of maintenance 20 instructions--- let-me capture my thought again.
21 Suppose you have a maintenance instruction. It c
22 says to tear down a valve. All right, and in the process 23 of that you tear it down and you find a broken widget inside.
24 All right, you decide then to ship it off and get the 25 widget replaced and come back. Does your maintenance us PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A
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108 1 instruction, the first one, get closed down at the point o
2 you determine it has to go off site or is there traceability 3 in the sense that it will be closed out by saying: Determined 4 to ship it off site; see document umpti-frats?
5 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah. Like we discussed earlier, 6 if the action plan envisioned doing all of this work under 7 a work request, maintenance instruction on site, that would 8 be the scope of the program. If we change the scope of the 9 program to involve sending this device off site, we will 10 change the action plan and we will once again cycle that 11 through you so that you get an opportunity to comment on it 12 and what we're intending to do. If you don't agree with the 13 amount of detail we have in otrprocedure for letting that go 14 off-site, then we would expect to hear that from you at that 15 time.
16 MR. BEARD: Well, I'm just saying suppose we were 17 reviewing it. Would your program have involved the kind of 18 leaving the trail behind?.
19 MR. WHITNEY: See, in order to change a maintenance 20 instruction under which I'm doing this kind of detailed 21 investigation, I have to cycle that back through the 22 approval process to make that change.
23 MR. BEARD: So you don't close out one maintenance 24 instruction and start another one --
25 MR. WHITNEY: I may.
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109 1 MR. BEARD: -- without tying the two together?
k/ 2 MR. WHITNEY: It may be inappropriate to continue 3 working under the existing one because the scope has changed 4 so much that we do in fact close that. Typically when that 5 is done die work request that closed that out will cause 6 preparation of a new work request that restates the new 7 problem.
.8 MR. BEARD: So you have the traceability --
9 MR. WHITNEY: Then you trace --
10 MR. COWARD: We never throw one away. If we 11 go partway down one we keep it and --
12 MR. BEARD: No, I mean if one takes a maintenance 13 instruction a year from now and reads down through the end 14 of it and it gets closed out but the problem doesn't seem
(' }
15 to be totally resolved, would there be something at the end 16 that says a new recorder is being generated and given a 17 number so that you'd then know where the next point in the 18 system is?
19 MR. WHITNEY: If that one is -- yes.
20 MR. COWARD: Typically that's true.
21 MR. BEARD: That's all I want to know.
12 MR. COWARD: We many times will get to a point 23 and we'll close out our work requests and we'll say: See 24 work request so-and-so, and we'll- jump into another one 25 and continue the program on.
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110 1 MR. WHITNEY: And the reason is, the scope of the
( 2 effort has changed. It's inappropriate to continue to do 3 that kind of work under the-- of that one work request.
4 MR. BEARD: I'E content with that.
5 _
MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, there's one last item: The 6 NRC should be advised as soon as practical of plans and 7 schedules for corrective action prior to the work being 3 performed. I think that we've agreed that that's going to 9 happen.
10 MR., BEARD: That's the engineering report and the ij verbal presentation that we talked about earlier.
12 MR. COWARD: Wait a minute. This is corrective 13 action now. 4 MR WHITNEY: I think there is a problem'w'ith the O
G' 14 15 word " work," what does that mean?
16 MR. COWARD: Yeah, the last one's corrective action ,
~
17 That's for the region to be able to -- we would tell them 13 when we're going to pick something odce we've cleared it off 19 ' the quarantine list. _
20 R. BEARD: Are you talking about the sentence that 21 says. Ehe J.4.C should be advised as soon as practical of plans, 22 schedules for corrective action?
23 MR. COWARD: Right.
24 MR. WHITNEY: Prior to wo rk being performed.
25 MR. BEARD: Okay. The intent there was something O
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111 )
l 1 we've already discussed, but I'll repeat it. At Davis-Besse, n
Sm) 2 once the root cause was determined, this ceam no longer had 3 a direct involvement. And the oversight of any repairs or 4 corrective action fell back to the region in the normal 5 frame of mind. But the region ins!sted that before you start 6 that work, because it's related to the event, they had to 7 be given advance notice typically at least a few hours if 8 not 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> so that they could arrange to have the 9 appropriate inspection people here at their option to 10 monitor.that corrective action to the extent they may choose 11 to do so.
12 MR. COWARD: That's what we discussed earlier 13 and that was what Al's request that we would honor that.
14 MR. CHAFFEE: What Id like you to do in that
.(]
s_/
15 regard is make sure the resident inspector is aware of your 16 plans and schedues for doing corrective action. When I get 17 back to the region we will sit down and talk about how we Is want to -- what we do want to inspect and observe relative 19 to be corrective action.
20 MR. WHITNEY: Al, to elaborate on that, the 21 existing process that has been followed is that the 12 resident inspector normally attends our 8:15 meeting each 13 morning where the day's work plan is settled and discussed.
24 And he's provided with copies of that work plan that tells 25 all the things that are going on. And so he is kept
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE EUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8594
112 1 apprised of the status of work in the plant and how it's
( 2 changing from time to time. And through that mechanism, 3- he is. And I would prefer not to elevate that to this 4 level here where it implies something other than that -
5 if it turns out that that doesn't seem to be satisfactory; 6 then we can address another process by which we could do it.
7 But I think the es:isting relationships between the g resident and the plant staff is sufficient in that area.
9 MR. COWARD: We've gone through that in' the 10 October and the December 5th thing that, you know, we kept gy your people informed, and what they wanted to see they got to see, without this team being involved. So I think that 12 g3 we've got that, and that base is covered pretty well. >
14 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay,,so that's understood then. '
15 MR. COWARD: And you understand where the game 16 plans are.
17 By the way, on this quarantine list, our scheduling gg people to process all the work requests, have this 39 quarantine. lists and they will not process the work request.
l- 20 That's another check point to say nobody's going to work 21 n it. Because they have the quarantine lists and if a l 22 workaequest shows up they stop it right there. So that's 28 another check point to make sure that nothing happens.
24 MR. BEARD: I think we've gone all the way through 25 the document and you have explained to us how you're going PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CDRPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95825 i
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113 I to provide the concepts that are in the Davis-Besse program.
V( D 2 Your plan.
3 The final thing, I guess, is that we have agreed 4 to a number of modifications to your memo or your program 5 in written form or unwritten form. Am I correct to 6 envision that you'll be revising your memo and the 7 attachements, et cetera, and we will get that in a day or 8 so?
9 MR. COWARD: Yes.
10 MR. BEARD: Or whatever the appropriate time is.
11 MR. WHITNEY: We'd like to have the leeway of 12 Producing that sometime during the day on Thursday. And 13 I should be able to get it for you late Thursday or early pv 14 Friday at the latest.
15 MR. BEARD: That's great. I'm just saying that I 16 should expect a revision.
17 MR. CHAFFEE: Oh, yes. We'll be able to look at 18 that and see how it compares --
19 MR. WHITNEY: And if it does not meet your needs 20 we would be more than willing to discuss those with you and 21 clarify as necessary, so that it finally comes down to 22 something we can use.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I think if it characterizes 24 what we've just discussed, --
25 MR. WHITNEY: There's still interpretation and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATIDN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, EUITE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFDRNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972-9894
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114 1 there's still --
r' s MR. CHAFFEE: That's right.
2 3 MR. WHITNEY: -- the actual written word that has 4 to be agreed to. And I would prefer we leave that option 5 open if it's necessary.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, are there any more questions 7 or comments before we go off record?
g MR. WHITNEY: Yes. Not on that subject, but we 9
had discussed earlier in the sequence of events the status 10 f the A high-pressure injection pump.
yy MR. BEARD: Can I interrupt? Before we get away fr m that, there is something. On the thing, the last page 12 jg of the Davis-Besse thing is ma-ked D-5 is a rather ..aportant item. It says a fact-finding team has stated that p 14 notwithstanding any of these action plans, et cetera, our 15 16 approvals, our reviews, our comments, the three points here, I would like to read them. If required for safety in 17 jg your judgment you should proceed and not wait for us.
MR. COWARD: You already have that in a 39 20 confirmatory action letter that Region 5 --
MR. BEARD: Surveillance requirements for tech-spec 21 should be satisfied. And if you have to use any of those 22 23 features we'd of course like to become aware of it as soon 24 as practical.
MR. COWARD: Yeah, we already understood that.
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115 1 MR. BEARD: I thought it was understood but it's O
U 2 amazing, sometimes it gets mixed up.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, Dan, you had something about 4 the HPI pump?
MR. WHITNEY: Yes, I do. If you could get your 5
6 sequence of events out, --
7 MR. EDISON: It's the one dated 12/30/857 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, the only one we have. We g
threw our other ones away.
9 And go to the 4:28 moment. It's my understanding 10 yy that we will be revising to show at 4:28:50 the A 12 high-pressure injection pump was shut down. Now this y, precedes closure of the suction valve from the BWST, which occurred several minutes later.
O 14 O
MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. With that we will --
15 MR. BEARD: I would suggest that at that point 16 37 we delete-the makeup pump on the quarantine list,because gg it did not contribute materially to the transient that the 19 P l ant went thorugh.
MR. CHAFFEE: Any disagreements? Comments?
20 21 MR. EATON: It'll have the data source for that 22 entry.
23 MR. COWARD: With that kind of a time frame it's bviously IDADS printout. To get it down to.
[ 24 MR. WHITNEY: It may not have been on an IDADS 25 I
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116 1 printout as such. It may have been from the -- they got the flow from the various pumps and that kind of thing.
h 2 3 It may be just a matter of checking the time when the flow 4 went off and they shut it down. I do not know what the 5
source of that was but we'll put all of that in the sequence 6 of events.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, and with that -- let's see.
g With that change, let me just run through our quarantine 9 list one more time. Quarantine list consists of the 10 main steam code safety, PSV-20544, A and B auxiliary fuel 33 control valves, flow control valves 20528 and 20527.
12 The manual gate valve FWS-063 and 064. .The ICS system 33 downstream from the C and J power breakers. And that's --
14 that's it.
O Item J, was that to be. deleted or C# 15 MR. BEARD:
16 revised? I was --
MR. WHITNEY: J is included back up there yy jg under the F item. I was going to revise F to make it 19 correct with breaker numbers and everything, so all of the 20 ICS power supply information will be contained within F.
MR. CHAFFEE: Okay, did we miss anything? Any 21 That's our quarantine list then. Okay.
22 disagreements?
23 At that point I'd like to conclude the meeting.
24 MR. BEARD: I second that motion.
25 (Thereupon the session was concluded.)
i
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117 g
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, RAMONA UILSON GORDON, an Electronic Reporter
('v) do hereby certify:
3 That I an a disinterested person herein; that the 4
foregoing Nuclear Regulatory Commission interview was recorded and thereafter transcribed by me into typewriting.
I.further certify that I am not of counsel or 7
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in 8
any way interested in the outcome of said hearing.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 2nd day of January, 1986.
12 13
[ / M ./
i (C/?X. COL hh C7(. (, '
RAMONA UILSON GORDON /
16 Official Reporter 17 18 19 20 - -
21 22 23 24 25 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. EUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALWORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5894 1
LEGEND: SU = St:rtup R:: quired '
LT = Leng Tcra STATUS DATE 12-31-85 PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 1 of 8 ST = Short Term - ACTION LIST - (
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No./NCR/ COMMENTS ETC.
- 1. Post Trip Report (AP.28) J. Field ST TR No. 75 Grant Simons a) TAP Team Investigation R. Colombo SU Entry Briefing 1000/12-28-85 Horn and Winks of B+W.
b) Sequence of Events R. Wichert SU Complete Will be revised as necessary c) Aux FW System Initiation G. Paptzun SU Complete Response Report
- 2. Root Cause Analysis a) Report S. Crunk ST Held up by ICS equipment quarantine b) Human Factors Review J. Jones ST Investigation underway 3.* Determine Cause/ Corrective N. Brock Action for ICS Power failure.
a) ICS equipment investigation SU Action plan being developed b) Power distribution SU Action plan being developed investigation c) ICS Troubleshooting SU WR 109621 No reoccurences recorded e O G
LEGEND: SU = Sttrtup R: quired LT = Long Term STATUS DATE 12-31-85 '
- PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 2 of 8 ST = .Short Tem - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No'./NCR/ COPt4ENTS ETC.
d) Repairs / Mods SU e) Loss of ICS Procedure ST Include ATOG Review f) Engineering review of V. Lewis ST proposed ICS Mods:
- 1. BTU Limits
- 2. RCS Flow Noise
- 3. WR Recorder Alams 4.* MU Pump (P-236) failure a) Repair / replace R. Lawrence LT Most rebuild parts in stock. Action plan by 1/1.
b) Cause R. Lawrence SU c) Revise SPs .for running J. Field SI Action plan by 12/31 w/o MU Pump d) Effect of SFV-25003 J. Field ST Action plan by 12/31 closure ,
Include review of effects on A-DHR and A-HPI Pumps.
~
e G G
LEGEND: SU n St rtup Required LT u L ng T;rm STATUS DATE 12-31-85
- PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER.26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 3 of 8 ST = Short Term - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No./NCR/ COMMENTS ETC.
- 5. Radiation Monitor R-15001 a) Repair M. Price SU Complete WR107890 Mechanical Work Complete WR107891 (Replaced Seals) b) Design evaluation V. Lewis SU Cause of failure known. To complete action plan and closure report.
- 6. RCS Overcooling a) Tech Spec review R. Colombo SU Completed, Reportable, will calculate 12/31 Cooldown Rate b) Analysis / evaluation J. Field SU
- 1. B+W Calculations SU Initial eval- Yessel okay for 32 EFPY.
uation Complete Additional Info by 1/1
- 2. NSAC Calculations SU Work to begin by I/3/86
- 3. Report SU 1
e 9 9
LEGEND: SU o Startup R; quired LT = Long Tcrm STATUS DATE 12-31-85 4 PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 4 of 8 ST = Short Tem - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSI8ILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No./NCR/ COMMENTS ETC.
- 7. Health Physics a) Health Physics Aspects / F. Kellie SU To be Obtained Relief Valve Radiological Evaluation , Complete ',y Durations 12/31 b) '1. Flooding / Filling of J. Field SU Action plan being developed Waste Gas Header / including makeup tank Surge Tank overfill investigation
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- 2. Waste Gas Compressor R. Lawrence SU Repair WR 107918 Repair Unde may c) Usefulness of RJR-013 V. Lewis ST
- 8. Emergency Plan a) EP Activation Analysis R. Dieterich SU Adequacy of data to NRC and counties.
b) TSC Fire Sprinkler V. Lewis SU NCR Actuation
- 9. Training a) Lessons Learned F. Thompson ST
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LEGEND: SU = Startup Required LT = Long T ra PE = Power Escalation STATUS DATE 12-31-85 DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 5 of 8 ST = Short Tern - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS
- WR No./NCR/ COPf4ENTS ETC.
- 10. Operational Review B. Ford SU a) Procedure Adequacy -
b) Comunications
'c ) Operator Performance . .
d) local / Manual Valve Operations
- 11. System Response Items a, c, and d - action plans being developed a)* Aux Steam, PSV-36012A J. Field SU Analyze IDADS data b)* Aux FW, FV-20527, FV-20528 J. Field SU Action Plan FWS-063 WR107855/856 Transient Operation Submitted Transient Operation c)* Main Steam, PSV-20544 J. Field SU Did valve open / blowdown d) RCP Seal Injection Flow J. Field SU Review for Transient effects o) DHP Lo Oil in Chicken R. Lawrence Feeders SU Investigate report f) Pegging Steam J. Field SU Reviewing for source of indication
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LEGEND: SU = Startup Required LT a Long T:;rm STATUS DATE 12-31-85 PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 6 of 8 ST = Short Term - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE -STATUS '
WR No./NCR/ COMMENTS ETC.
- 12. Quarantined Equipment List
- c) PSV-20544, Main Steam Code Relief b) FV-20527, A-AFW Control Valve c) FY-20528, 8-AFW Control Valve d) FWS-063 .A-AFW Manual Isolation Valve
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e) FWS-064, 8-AFW Manual Isolation Valve f) ICS, from C+J/E+F Power Supplies, Inverters, and through ICS Power Distribution g) MU Pump Room and P-236, not including electrical supply OK for Radiological Decon of room and work on equipment not related to makeup pump.
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- LEGEND: SU = Startup Required '
LT o Long Tarm PE = Power Escalation STATUS DATE 12-31-85 c DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME NA = Not Applicable 1200 ST = Short Ters Page 7 of 8
- ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No./NCR/ CDMMENTS ETC.
- 12. h) 480V 2C1 MCC and all related loads
- 1) 480V 201 MCC and related loads j) Vital Distribution Bus 1C1 and related loads k) PV-32454 B-4th Point Htr Pegging Steam Control Valve
- 1) PV-32455, A-(th Point Htr Pegging Steam Control Valve c) PV-32244, B-2nd Point Htr Pegging Steam Control Valve n) PV-32245, A-2nd Point Htr Pegging Steam s Control Valve c) PSV-32225, A-2nd Pt Htr Pegging Steam Pressure -
Relief Valve e O O
LEGEND: SU u Startup R; quired ~
LT = Long Tcra STATUS DATE 12-31-85 i PE = Power Escalation DECEMBER 26, 1985 TRANSIENT TIME 1200 NA = Not Applicable Page 8 of 8 J
ST = Short Teru - ACTION LIST -
- Troubleshooting / Repair Guidelines Per GAC 85-1001 Apply DESCRIPTION RESPONSIBILITY SCHEDULE STATUS WR No./NCR/ C0ffiENTS ETC.
- 12. p) PSV-32226 B PeggingSfeam-2ndPtHtr Pressure Relief Valve q) PSV-32327, A-3rd Pt Htr Pegging Steam Pressure Relief Valve r) PSV-32326, B-3rd Pt Htr Pegging Steam Pressure Relief Valve .
s) PSV-32455, A-4th Pt Htr Pegging Steam Pressure Relief Valve t) PSV-32456, B-4th Pt Htr Pegging Steam Pressure Relief Valve u) PSV-32457, A-4th Pt Htr Pressure Relief Valve v) PSV-32458, B-4th Pt Htr Pressure Relief Valve e
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