ML20155H798
| ML20155H798 | |
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|---|---|
| Site: | Rancho Seco, 05000000 |
| Issue date: | 12/31/1985 |
| From: | Whitney D AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
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// c2 O UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
EXAMINATION OF DAN WHITNEY LOCATION: HERALD, CALIFORNIA PAGES: 1 - 52 DATE: TUESDAY, DECEMBER 31, 1985 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
1 ial Reporters l 444 rth CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (20233 3700 l SeR'228eM 88888812 S PDR NATIONWIDE COVERACE
r 1
1 BUFORE THE 11UCLEAR REGULATORY COIRilSSIOli 2
3 4 In the Matter of: )
)
5 AUGMEliTED IHSPECTIO11 TEAM )
RAliCHO SECO )
6 )
)
7 8 .
9 10 11 12 EXAMIllATI0li 0F DAli 1TtIITiiEY 13 34 TUESDAY, DECEMBER 31, 1905 15 16 gy RAi1CHO SECO 'clUCLEAR POUER PLAllT gg 14440 TUIII CITIES ROAD 39 HERALD, CALIFORdIA 20 21
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22 23 24 25 O
PETERE BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MIVER DMIVE, SulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 ,
TELEPNONE (916) 973*5594
2 1
APPEARANCES 2 Al Chaffee, Nuclear Regulatory Commission 3 J. T. Beard, Nuclear Regulatory Commission 4 Gordon Edison, Nuclear Regulatory Commission 5 Ron Eaton, Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 Henry Bailey, Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7 Dan Whitney, Witness 8
9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 15 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 O
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 98525 TELEPHONE (996) 972*SS94
3 1 PR_OCEEDINGS
,~
V 2 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. It is December 31st. We are 3 here to talk to Dan Whitney about an update to the sequence 4 of events that was provided to the team late last night.
5 The sequence of events is dated 12-30-85, 1200 hours0.0139 days <br />0.333 hours <br />0.00198 weeks <br />4.566e-4 months <br />. It 6 is entitled as Rad-0. And this particular sequence of events 7 is more detailed, more narrative than the previous one.
8 And at this point, Dan, if you would, let's walk 9 through this and basically address any comments that we 10 may have relative to the sequence of events.
It I think at first here--I've read through it myself.
12 There are only a few changes. I think maybe what we ought 13 to do is just run through it here and address any comments.
p V
14 And if you are aware of any particular changes from the 15 last one, I'd appreciate it if you would bring those out.
16 MR. BEARD: Could I ask you a format question, 17 before we get started here?
18 MR. CHAFFEE: Sure, go right ahead.
19 MR. BEARD: The preliminary rough draft Grant 20 had given us the day before had a format wherein you start 21 out with initial plant conditions, transient initiator and 22 then went on to other items.
23 I notice that format appears to have been abandonecl 24 in the more final version of this product. Was there any 25 Particular reason for doing that?
PETERS, SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 9715894
4 1 MR. WHITNEY: Not that I'm aware of. We had 7
V 2 a number of people working on developing this sequence of 3 events that you have here. It's our intent to make that 4 a comprehensive sequence of events. And if you feel like 5 there is some missing information or what-have-you, we can 6 put that in. We were attempting to be responsive to the 7 need, to identify not only the time and sequence of the 8 event of the various events themselves and provide descrip-9 tions of that, but also the reference to the souce of it.
10 This has been revised to incorporate a lot of additional 11 information. I think that's probably why you see it as 12 a change in the format.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. The source information is 14 really very good.
15 MR. BEARD: I think that's great. That's commend-16 able.
17 MR. CHAFFEE: And then the narrative in here 18 is also excellent.
19 MR. BEARD: I'd like to suggest that you consider---
20 I guess we're going to get this more or less on a daily 21 update basis.
22 MR. WHITNEY: I guess it's going to be-- We're 23 intending to update it whenever we have significant reasons 24 to update. I don't know that daily is appropriate; but 25 certainly we will have formal updates as information needs f}
J PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPoRATlDN 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE BUITE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPNONE (936) 972 5594
5 I to be added.
(-) 2 MR. CHAFFEE: If there are no changes, for example, 3 tomorrow morning and if it just so states--
4 MR. WHITNEY: We would definitely know, no problem 5 there.
6 MR. BEARD: I was just saying that you go through 7 the next iteration, it may be convenient to go back and 8 pick up this concept of addressing the initial plant 9 conditions and the transient initiator before you get an 10 overall plant response. That's a convenience, not a 11 necessity.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: The other comment we had, it would la be helpful to us in those cases where something abnormal 14 occurs to have a mechanism for highlighting those things 15 that are expected in those that are not.
16 MR. WHITNEY: We have attempted to do that in 17 the narrative. And if you find shortcomings there, if you 18 will please let me know where those are, where they raise 19 those kinds of ques,tions in your mind--
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
21 MR. WHITNEY: --we will take action to clear 22 those up.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. One question we had was, 24 it wasn't clear to us whether or not we suspected the makeup 25 tank level would overflow or not during this event.
n PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTIND CORPORATION 3433 AMERICA *4 RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
6 1 MR. BEARD: Makeup tank?
2 MR. CHAFFEE: Right. In this report, it does 3 address in the sequence here, that the makeup tank level 4 I guess overfilled.
5 MR. WHITNEY: Yes.
2 6 MR. CHAFFEE: At this point, I'm assuming that 7 is not what you would have expected, but I don't know that 8 for a fact.
9 MR. WHITNEY: We know why that occurred. And 10 when I commented on the original last version of this, as 11 it went to typing, that was one of the actions that I gave 12 the people putting this togethere, is to elaborate on that 13 point.
14 For your own information, the reason that the 15 makeup tank overfilled was due to the concern on the part
- 16 of the operators that with the re-circulation path for all 17 of the makeup HPI pumps closed on the safety features, which 13 is a normal occurrence, when things had quieted down a little 19
- bit, one of the early actions they took was to re-establish
~ ~
20 that recirculation flow.
21 Unfortunately, at that time, the makeup out of 22 the tank isolation valve to those pumps was still closed.
18 So this.put the recirculation water back in the makeup tank 24 and allowed it to overfill.
33 MR. CHAFFEE: I see. If that valve had been O
PETERB BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A
.SACNAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973-5894
7 1 opened, the recirculation wouldn't have had this effect.
l}
(_/ 2 MR. WHITNEY: It would have been, in fact, 3 recirculation.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: I see.
5 MR. WHITNEY: As it was, it was accumulation 6 in the makeup tank.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: I understand.
3 MR. WHITNEY: And it was because of the operator's 9 action to re-establish that flow for the purpose of pump 10 Protection, he knew he had plenty of makeup water going 13 into the reactor coolant system. So he had no need for 12 that to be isolated. And he re-established that, but he 33 did not, in fact, get recirculation because of the closed 14 isolation valve.
O 15 MR. BEARD: Let me give you another example that 16 might help. On the second page of your write-up, at the 17 time, 4:00, 14 minutes and 48 seconds, there's an entry is that reads " makeup tank level decreasing rapidly", followed 19 by the sentence indicating what the operator did about it.
20 A simple mark such as an asterisk to indicate 21 whether the rapid decrease in makeup tank level was some-22 thing expected or unexpected versus what one would normally 23 expect plant response to be would be a great help.
24 MR. WHITNEY: I think the easy way to do that 25 is to put the reason for that into that first sentence.
Od PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN river ORIVE, SutTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894
8 1 MR. CHAFFEE: That would be fine.
! 2 MR. WHITNEY: Makeup tank level decreasing rapidly 3 as a result of two pumps taking suction off of one tank.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: And as a result of engineering 5 safety features actuation.
6 MR. WHITNEY: No, it had not actuated at this 7 point.
8 MR. CHAFFEE: I see. That's because they started 9 the B pump.
10 MR. WHITNEY: Yes.
)) MR. CHAFFEE: And they started it because of 12 their concern--
33 MR. WHITNEY: No. The B pump was on the BWST, 14 so it was open.
'~~'
15 MR. CHAFFEE: I see.
16 MR. BEARD: Is there a problem with some simple 17 way of identifying either word such as "this was expected" 13 or "this was not expected" or an asterisk or some way that 19 would clearly identify unambiguously this was expected or 20 unexpected? Would there be a problem with that?
21 MR. WHITNEY: No. We can do that. It's--we've 22 got to come up with a consistent and convenient way to do 23 that, sure.
24 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. But I also agree with you, 25 Dan, we can do this--whatever this asterisk symbol is, but A
U PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. BulTE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95825
- TELEPHONE (916) 973 8594
9 1 I would also like the narrative in your views.
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2 MR. BEARD: I like the narrative also.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: The narrative is very valuable 4 in understanding the transient help.
5 MR. BEARD: Yes, it is.
6 MR. WHITNEY: It's important that we put that 7 narrative in, we feel, so that people do come away with 8 an understanding of exactly what was going on and the reasons 9 for the different things; because those impacted and the 10 subsequent actions taken by the operators, based upon their 11 interpretation of what they were saying.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: I agree.
la Another item in here, on page 3, time 4:16, plus f] 14 or minus one, I assume plus or minusr is an error.
v 15 MR. WHITNEY: No. The plus or minus is plus 16 or minus one minute. See, that's an operator personal state-17 ment. We don't know for sure.
18 MR. CHAFFEE: Oh, I see.
19 The comment is "the operator secured pegging 20 steam", the question is why.
21 MR. WHITNEY: That's another one I've already 22 marked for our people to develop the narrative to go with 18 that.
24 MR. CHAFFEE: The other question I had in reading 25 through it was--
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. EUITE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (pl6) 973 8894
10 1 MR. WHITNEY: I can tell you why, if you want, q'
's/ 2 but that will be in the next revision.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, go ahead. '
4 MR. WHITNEY: Okay. The reason for that, on 5 the--very early in this event, within the first minute or 6 so, the operators recognized that they have an overcooling.
7 At the same time, there was a loud noise heard from the 8 control room that would indicate a relief valve open on 9 the turbine deck.
10 We have had that happen on previous trips and 11 it's been the reliet valve on one of the feedwater heaters, 12 which is being supplied with pegging steam post-trip for 13 the purpose of feedwater heating. And rather than go through
/~T 14 the exercise of running out there, find out which one it L) '
15 is and go to the appropriate point and isolate it, the operators 16 felt comfortable in securing the automatic pegging steam 17 feature.
13 And so they went to a manual pegging steam control 19 ' and the noise stopped. Well, it was done for the purpose 20 of bottling up the secondary plant to prevent an overcooling.
21 They were looking-- They knew they had an over-12 cooling initiation. This was one of the potential reasons 23 why you could have an overcooling, hnd it was part of their 24 overall program of closing back on all--isolating all the
?
25 steam ' generators.
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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (tH6) 973 3594 i
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11 1 MR. CHAFFEE: One question though, by going through
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(,j 2 all that dialog, you are not saying that you know for sure 3 you did lift one of these relief; but that--
4 MR. WHITNEY: We have an investigation going 5 on with that right now. We think~we have identified where--
6 which relief it was, but we have to go ahead and continue 7 the investigation to prove that to ourselves. That's in 8 progress. That's the kind of information though we would 9 expect to amend and put into the sequence as we go forward.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: Do you have any thoughts on--I 11 guess one of the thoughts that's hammering across my mind 12 is we'll need to discuss rational relative to that relief 13 valve being on the quarantine list or not, the reasons why
-s 14 it would impact, it would or wouldn't have on the event 15 type thing and.how it's going to be handled. So I want 16 to add that as a question for--
17 Is it the fourth or fifth point heather?
18 MR. WHITNEY: The pegging steam supplies only 19 the second point and fourth point heaters. In fact, right 20 now, our investigation is leaning toward a third point heater 21 relief valve and not a fourth point heater relief valve, 22 wh'ich wou'ld say it had nothing to do with pegging steam.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: I see.
24 MR. EATON: Is it possible, during the sequence 25 of events descriptions and what-have-you to have you tag
- lkJ3 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 973 8894
l 12 1 some of the operator actions to the procedures that they r's O 2 were using in trying to. mitigate'the incident? For instance, 3 it says, operstor trips both made feed pumps. I can show 4 you, you know, on five where you should have done that.
5 Is that the source of his doing that?
6 MR. WHITNEY: We discussed that at that step.
7 He actually would trip those pumps in accordance with EO.2.
8 MR. EATON: '
Okay. Emergency procedure EO.2.
9 And that was as a result of-- .
10 MR. WHITNEY: That's his-initial verification 11 of post-trip conditdons.
12 MR. EATON: Okay. What step in EO'.2 was he using 13 there?
7's 14 MR. WHITNEY: I think it was step four, but I'm U
15 not sure. I don't have one here with me.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: It says, "The operators trip 17 main feed pumps for step four of emergency procedure 6302, 13 page 2, bottom."
19 The comment is, if there is an applicable step, 20 it sounds like you've got them all in here. .11 there happens 21 to be any 'that aren't--
- 22 MR. WHITNEY: I wouldn't say we have all of them, 23 but it's been our intent to put that kind of information 24 here. And if there are areas in here where you feel unclear 25 about that, let me know and we can add that in.
(v PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A h5ACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 955:5 TELCPHONE (916) 972-3894 i
13 1 MR. BEARD: There was one area. I'm not sure (s.)
2 if I can find it again this morning, but we glanced at it 3 last night. We got this late last night.
4 It was at the point where the reactor coolant 5 pump was tripped. Let me see if I can find that hight quick.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: I know what we're talking of. We 7 would be interested in having it in the sequence of events 8 when you went below, I believe 500 degrees. That may be 9 in here. And then I understand there was a time period 10 when you theN secured a reactor coolant pump at about 490 11 degrees. I think it tends to allude to the reason and the 12 rational for securing that pump having to do with the reactor 13 vessel lift.
/~T 14 MR. WHITNEY: No, core lift,' not vessel lift.
V 15 MR. CHAFFEE: I'm sorry, core lift. Okay. Is 16 that what you are alluding to?
17 MR. BEARD: Yeah, it had to do-- The reason 18 it came to mind was that in some of the preliminary informa-19 tion that we had previously, I believe it said the reactor 20 operator secured more of the reactor coolant pumps per procedure.
21 Okay. Now, it has words that don't refer to a procedure 22 but they just say " reactor coolant pump was secured" something 25 to the effect, in view of core lift requirements.
24 MR. WHITNEY: That's the purpose of the procedure, 25 is to prevent core lifts.
(D L)
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE. EUlTC A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA e5e25 TELEpNoNC (sis) s72-eas4 6 ,. ..
14 1 MR. BEARD: I understand that. But the key thing V 2 in my mind was if I understand it correctly, and I'm not 3 sure that I do, what happened was, all four pumps were running, 4 a senior type of individual came back into the control, 5 doing some outside activities and noticed that the plant 6 was below 500 degrees and all four were running. And then 7 according to what he said, hey, you guys don't forget, if 8 you need to get one of those pumps up. And I think at the 9 time they were at 490. I don't know how long they had been 10 at 490, but the end result was, I believe, your company 11 has initiated an investigation or analysis or whatever of 12 core lift considerations, because there was a period of 13 time when you were below the 500 degrees and all four pumps p 14 were running. So that that explanation of yeah, if you O
15 had had more time and been a calmer sort of situation, you 16 would have turned the pump off earlier, but in this case, 17 it didn't get turned off till 490, doesn't really come through.
18 MR. WHITNEY: Well--
19 MR. BEARD: Do you see what I'm grying to get 20 at here?
21 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah. I certainly do. You're 22 absolutely right, we are investigating that. We have asked 23 B&W to do the calculation of the actual core of lift forces 24 as a funtion of the conditions that existed here, because 25 we did, in fact, operate that pump to a lower temperature m
l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMCRICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8594 L
15 1 than what the procedure calls for. So it's--it's part of 2 the analysis that they are doing on the cooldown.
i 3 So as we get that information, we'll stick it 4 in here.
. 5 MR. CHAFFEE: Page 5, time 4:28, it says " Manually
[ 6 stopped reactor coolant pump C per core lift requirements."
1 7 That's the one we're talking about.
3 . MR. WHITNEY: Yeah.
9 MR. BEARD: I guess what I was interested in *
.10 was a clear way of going back through this long and detailed 11 sequence of events, which I like, but it's saying, okay, 12 here is a questioned area that we need to pursue. That, 13- it would seem to'me, to be considered right now as a perfectly D normal and expected sort of thing, so we don't have any 14 .
d 15 questions in that area. And this is~why this mark of an 16 asterisk or something like that would be very useful. It
. 17 identifies those areas that you're pursuing or investigating 13 or whaEever word you want to use. That's all. ,
gg MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Aree we ready to go onto 20 another question?
, 23 MR. WHITNEY: As far as I'm concerned, yes.
l 33 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. The next questiin I have
- 23. is back on page 6, we're talking about, let's see here, 24 let's get it straight, 4:35, makeup tank level is high.
25 So they. shut the four quarter storage tank section valve.
2 PETERS BHORTHAND F'EPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTD, CAUFDRNIA 955s5 .
l TELEPMowE (sts) 97s-SSo4
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16 1 And at that point, there is no water available for the d 2 A~-HPI pump and the makeup pump. The question I have and 3 I couldn't find it in the sequence, but at what time-- First 4 off, was the A-HPI pump was it secured, at that time, or 5 was it running?
6 MR. WHITNEY: I believe it is secured later on.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Secured after the removed the water 8 source to both pumps? That's my question. I'm not clear 9 as to the impact--I know what the impact was in the makeup 10 pump, but I'm unclear as to what it's impact on the A-HPI 11 pump was.
12 MR. WHITNEY: I thought we had that here.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: But that's the question.
14 MR. WHITNEY: I don't see see it though, you're 15 right. So I'll have to find out.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: So that raised a question in my 17 mind as to whether or not that pump is running.
13 MR. WHITNEY: The pump was running, at that time, 19 ' for a while. We'll have to add that in here.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, if it is true that it was 21 running at the time water was secured to both pumps, then 22 the follow-up question I have is, was there any damage to 23 that A-HPI pump? Is it on your list? Or woald you have 24 expected that?
25 MR. WHITNEY: There is no damage to the pump PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A BACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-9994
17 1 and there is a reason why there is not. Right now it escapes 2 me as to what that is. We've looked at it.
3 MR. BAILEY: I believe I asked that question 4 earlier. The explanation I got at the time was you come 5 out of the BWST and you branch off into two different--
6 two lines in the valve. And only the line going to the 7 makeup pump is the one that got closed rather than the other 8 valve.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: See I-- Maybe I'm wrong, but we 10 looked at the drawings and my understanding was that the 11 A-HPI pump and the makeup pump have a suction and that suction 12 line is such that one source of water from the makeup tank 13 and the other one is from this valve they shut, whereas 14 the BHPI pump has a separate water source.
15 MR. BAILEY: Yeah.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: So when they secured--as long as 17 they had that one open, both the A and the makeup pump had 18 water supply. As soon as they secured that, then it removed 19 water to both pumps. Now, I may be wrong but that's--that's 20 why I have the question. It may be. Anyway that's the 21 question and I don't know the answer.
12 MR. WHITNEY: I understand the question. It 13 has to be added in here. I just can't give you the right 24 answer part right now.
25 MR. BEARD: I have a comment on just below that O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A ^
BACRAMES8TO, CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3594
l 18 1 page, I think, on that same page, time entry 0440, is when 2 the ICS power was restored, and it goes on to tell how they 3 did that.
4 It seems to me that something that was very 5 significant in the event was that when the power was restored 6 a number of significant valves went to the 100 percent open 7 position, as a consequence of just being repowered.
8 MR. WHITNEY: No. The demands for those valves 9 went to 100 percent.
10 MR. BEARD: Okay. And I assume that the valves 11 at least started toward that direction also.
12 MR. WHITNEY: They may or may not have, as acted 13 upon by the entire ICS control system; because in some cases
(')
LJ 14 while it would go there, the valve itself would not travel 15 because you still had the high steam generator level, for 16 example, which was overriding the immediate open--auto 17 OPen signal.
~
13 'MR. BEARD: Okay. But I guess what I would like 19 *to do is since we're trying to understand--
20 MR. CHAFFEE: We need a discussion of what the 21 valves did, why not, just what you're basically telling 22 us.
23 MR. BEARD: Yeah. It's to make it clear that 24 upon restoration of power to the ICS that at least the demand 25 for certain important valves went to 100 percent and that's O
d PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. Sul1E A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
19 I why the operators, of course, started closing down on it g
2 manually.
3 MR. WHITNEY: At one time we had that in here, 4 let me see if it's here now.
5 MR. BEARD: It may be, but I missed it.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: I can't see it in here.
7 MR. WHITNEY: I don't see it in here, we'll get 8 ic.
9 MR. CHAFFEE: Oh a question, in here it talks 10 about steam generators. It talks about the fact that they--
11 here we go, page 6, first entry--the A-OTSG is full up to 12 the top of the steam shroud and begins to spill water in 13 the steam annulus. We're not clear on the impact of that.
(] 14 When it spells water in the steam annulus, at that point, V
15 do you have the potential of getting water into the steam 16 lines?
17 MR. WHITNEY: That's when you begin to put water 18 into the steam lines.
19 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I don't kow how much-- We 20 looked at it, and I gueso you could figure out by the flow 21 rates that were going to the generator and stuff, how much 22 water got in there.
23 Are you undertaking an analysis of the impact 24 it had on the main steam lines? Is that one of your action 25 items?
(3
\,.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RtVER ORIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTO, CALtFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3594
20 I MR. WHITNEY: We're moving in that direction.
g V 2 Right now, we're trying to decide just exactly how much I
water got into those lines and when.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
5 MR. WHITNEY: And we know we did not fill those 6 lines. It looks like the A got some water in it, but how 7 much has yet to be decided.
8 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
9 MR. BEARD: Wouuld it be appropriate to do, as 10 part of your more-quickly initiated events, to have some 11 knowledgeable people do a walk down in that steam line to 12 see if there's oeen any damage?
13 MR. WHITNEY: That has already been done.
p 14 MR. BEARD: Did they find any damage?
U 15 MR. WHITNEY: None.
16 MR. BEARD: That's certainly good news.
17 MR. WHITNEY: No. It's not unexpected. I mean, 18 we--we've had those lines completely filled with water and 19 they've done no damage to them. So it's not unusual.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: I don't know if we want to get~
21 into all the details in that, but I guess, would you have 22 blocked the springs or whatever when you fill them with 23 water? Do you do anything special when you fill with water?
24 MR. WHITNEY: The hydro requirement is that you 25 pin the hangers before you fill them with water. That, 13 V
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, BulTE A BACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TCLEPHONE (916) 972 5594
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21 I of course, was not done in this event; but we have had them
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'- 2 full of water and not had them pinned and it has not done 3 any damage to the hangers or to the piping.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I understand.
5 Okay. At this point, because I understand you 6 have a meeting at 9:00, unless there is any other specific 7 questions, I think we've talked some generalities and some 8 specific questions, I would propose that we now shift to 9 a discussion of the quarantine list.
10 MR. BEARD: I have one question, a very general 11 question. I think that the sequence event number one is 12 a very good product, but I thought that some places down la through here referred to attached plots of things like OTSG
/') 14 pressure versus ticae. Okay. And I think it refers to various
\/
15 of those.
16 It would be very helpful, since we received a 17 number of different plots, to have furnished to us with 18 this, the specific plots that you intended to have attached 19 to the sequence of events.
20 MR. WHITNEY: Okay. We need to talk about that, 21 probably. The plots certainly lead to a better understanding 22 of the entire event. And we intend to make those available.'
23 MR. EDISON: I suggest we take the reference 24 to them out of here.
25 MR. WHITNEY: That's what I was really going (d
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTD, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 9994 u
I I
22 ;
i l
I to suggest that we do. l
/m V 2 MR. EDISON: This is supposed to be a sequence 3 not get thicker and thicker and thicker.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: I think that's fine if you take 5 the reference out. The only thing I would like is throughout 6 the transient there are certain times in the transient when 7 it's important to know what the temperature and pressure 8 are. And in many cases, you have them in there.
9 I guess we have to review it here some more our-10 selves, but it is important where it is appropriate to show 13 that type of data, so you get a feeling where the plant 12 is at various times. Some of it is in here.
33 For example, I would be interested in when 14 pressurizer level would have been at its absolute lowest.
15 I know you talked about when it went off scale and when 16 it came back on scale.
17 It would be of interest, let's see, at what time jg you had the--we hiive the minimum temperature and the pressure j, 'at that time. I would also like--it would be important 20 for us to have in here, when you had the maximum peak pressur e 21 after you had started the re-pressurization. I don't know 22 if it was implied at that lowest temperature happened to 23 be the highest pressure or not. But it's possible that 24 you reached a higher pressure after you started heating 25 back up again. And I don't know.
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23 1 Any other particular key parameters of interest?
U 2 MR. BEARD: I'd just like to say that I think 3 the graphs ought to be maybe not patched but with the package 4 that describes the event 5 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah. We definitely intend to 6 do that.
7 MR. CHAFFEE: Any other questions?
8 Let's go on then to the quarantine list. Current 1:7 9 your action plan has a list of quarantine items. I've just 10 sort of written down here some items that are potential 11 possible items. What I would like to do is focus the 12 discussion--first I'll run through the ones that are common 13 to both lists and then talk about the differences.
14 At this point, those are--that we have on our
-(G~)
15 list that aren't on yours, at this point, I'm not saying 16 they have to be on the list. I want a discussion to under-17 stand why they're not, and then reach a conclusion. Okay?
13 So first off, you have PSV-20544 on the list.
19 We have--we think that's fine. At this point, I'm not exactl;r 20 clear as to the significance of that particular item on 21 the quarantine list. And I understand right up above it 22 is some question as to whether or not operated properly.
23 I would be interested in a little more detail 24 as to why there's a question as to its proper operation.
25 MR. WHITNEY: In the previous trip that we had, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, EUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
24 1
that particular valve indicated that it may have lifted im Q 2 earlier and blew down further than what it should have.
3 It continued to simmer for some period of time after we 4 completed the other trip. It closed, didn't cause the cool-5 down or anything like that, but it was a problem.
6 So we went out and did an in-place calibration 7 on its set point; found it off of its set point, readjusted 8 it, lifted it like five more times and it worked fine. And 9 so we were satisfied that the valve, in fact, was operable.
10 Here we have an indication that once again it 11 did not perform as it should have, in other words, it lifted 12 early. That meant to us that it's a problem valve and we're 13 going to have to do something about it.
. p. 14 MR. CHAFFEE: I agree that should be on the quaran tin @
\_)
15 list. Any disagreements?
16 MR. WHITNEY: I do not believe though that we 17 have any indication that this valve contributed to the cool-18 down significantly or in any way impacted the outcome of 19 ' the event; but there's a message here that that valve needs 20 to be worked on.
21 MR. BEARD: If you're finished with that, I'd 22 like to ask an administrative question.
23 This action plan that you folks have developed, 24 as I see it, is a living document--
25 MR. WHITNEY: Oh, yeah.
(3
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25 I MR. BEARD: --being revised from time to time.
\_/ 2 It's not clear to me that we have the most current one or 3 which one you're talking from and which one that Al's talking 4 from. Maybe we ought to go ahead and establish for the 5 record what is the current one, so we can make sure we're 6 all playing on the same piano.
7 MR. WHITNEY: That's a good question. I thought 8 I brought the current one with me. But I don't see that 9 I have it here now. I'm working from an old one tco.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: Yeah. The one I'm working from 11 is December 27th, '85, 1400.
12 MR. BEARD: I think there's one dated the 30th 13 is the reason I asked the question.
p 14 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah, there's a 30th version out.
U 15 I guess what happened is I signed it and sent it to copying 16 this morning, so we could use for the 9:00 o' clock meeting, 17 that's where it's at.
18 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. What I would propose is, 19 we get the updated sequence of events, if there is one, 20 the night before we have this meeting, so we can review 21 it and have questions to ask; and that, at the same t:.me 22 we review the updated action plan for the same reason. That 23 way we'll both have a document that we're talking to at 24 the meeting. If we get it the night before, we can take 25 a look at it.
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A
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26 1
Anybody have a problem with that or any comments?
r~'s V 2 MR. BEARD: Would that be a problem for you?
3 MR. WHITNEY: No. We have them ready late in 4 the day anyways.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Let's see. The next item 6 that's on here, two items that's on your list are the flow 7 control valves for the A and B auxiliary feedwater systems.
8 And we agree that those need to be on the list.
9 The next valve you have is the manual gate valve.
10 MR. EDISON: Where are you, Al?
11 MR. CHAFFEE: I'm on page 4 of 4.
12 MR. EATON: Page 4.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: 4 of 4.
p 14 MR. BEARD: Item 12. It depends a little bit d 15 on which version you're looking at too.
16 MR. EATON: I'm using the same version that you 17 have there.
18 MR. EDISON: It should be 12 (d) .
19 MR. WHITNEY: That's right.
20 MR. CHAFFEE: 12-27-85. What's the date on yours?
21 You could have it on the last page. It should be handwritten .
22 MR. EDISON: Okay. Are you giving us the whole 23 thing as the quarantine list or--
24 MR. WHITNEY: No.
25 MR. EDISON: --or just certain pieces of it?
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27 1 MR. CHAFFEE: No. The copies I have, item 12
~h (O 2 is quarantine equipment list.
3 MR. EDISON: I don't have an item 12.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I do.
5 For the record, the items that we're agreeing 6 to, as I understand it, will appear in your action plan 7 under the title of Quarantine Equipment List. Is that right, 3 Dan?
9 MR. BAILEY: What is item 12?
10 MR. EATON: Item 12 is quarantine equipment list.
yy What has happened, here is the one before it got handmarked 12 up. I have that without the 12 on it. I had one that was 33 handed out later that was marked up with the same information,
- p. 34 what date and--it's got the same date and time on it.
(
15 MR. EDISON: Two members of the team have not 16 received the information.
17 MR. BEARD: Three.
13 MR. EDISON: Three members of the team have not 19 received the information.
20 MR. BEARD: I think there's enough mixup here.
21 We can go on with the meeting, of course, but I think that 22 we need to make clear that we all need to be having the 23 same up-to-date copies and maybe destroy or mark obsolete 24 all the previous versions. This is a major source of con-25 fusion.
/%
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8894
28 1 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I understand the problem
,~
2 and the licensee has agreed to a mechanism and will correct 3 it. I would recommend we go on. And if you want, we can 4 write down these items.
5 So far what we've agreed is that the code safety 6 there was a question on would be in the list, the two flow 7 control valves that the operators had difficulty operator 8 the AUX feedwater system are the list, the gate, valve was--
9 they could not move, FWS-063, is on the list. I will come 10 back to that. They also have on the list the ICS system 11 from the C&J/F power supply inverters and through the ICS 12 power distribution.
13 On that one, I understand--I understand there
/m 14 is some question as to the scope of the quarantining of d
15 that equipment. We need to reach an understanding of the 16 boundaries that you've established.
17 I would propose that after we run through the 18 items that are currently on your list we come back and discus s 19 ' that one more fully.
20 MP.. WHITNEY: I agree to that.
21 MR. CHAFFEE: The next item is the makeup pump 22 room and P-236.
23 MR. EDISON: What's P-236?
24 MR. CHAFFEE: That's.the makeup pump. Not 25 including electrical supply, okay for radiological decon
[')
'v PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5394
29 1 of the room. At this point, I have no problem with that 2 item as described. Any disagreements?
3 MR. EDISON: Yes.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay.
5 MR. EDISON: I'm not sure what that had to do 6 with this event. That is, we know that the operator shut 7 off the water supply to the pump. You would expect the 8 pump to blow up like it did. And it's not--it's not under-9 stood. If it happened at another plant that wasn't having 10 an ICS event, I don't think we'd quarantine. I don't think 11 it has anything to do with this event. I think it is just 12 an unfortunate operator mistake. He shut off the water 13 supply, the pump blew up and they ought to go deal with 14 that the way you would normally deal with a pump that failed 15 with a shut off water supply; unless there's some--unless 16 you have some thought that some how the ICS did this or 17 there is something unexplained or we don't understand.
18 MR. BAILEY: I agree with Gordon.
19 MR. EDISON: But to turn off a water supply of 20 a pump and losing a pump, I'd--
21 MR. BAILEY: I'd be amazed if it didn't fail.
22 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Let me state a couple of 23 ideas. At this point in our meeting, I have a question 24 as to whether or not the A-HPI pump was undergoing some 25 of the same impact as the makeup pump. If it turns out PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPMQNE (916) 972 5594 ,
30 1 that that pump was not running or was not subject to the m
)
. / 2 same mechanism, I tend to agree with you. If there is a 3 possibility of being subjected to the same thing, I would 4 be interested in finding out a better analysis of, I guess, 5 the destruction of the pump as a mechanism of trying to 6 understand the potential damage to A-HPI pump.
7 MR. BEARD: I would suggest that we adopt the 8 position of keeping it on the list temporarily, for another 9 day or two, and see how it goes.
10 MR. EDISON: Okay.
11 MR. CHAFFEE: .In Fact, relative to the licensee's 12 action, my impression, they intend to treat this thing with 13 the same controls, whether it's on the list or not.
A 14 MR. EDISON: Yes. Well, I think they should'.
U.
15 MR. WHITNEY: In effect, that's what we are doing.
16 We are developing a troubleshooting plan, if you are to 17 call it that, which will cover the teardown and inspection 18 of'that pump. Once weve completed that, we will determine 19 'whether the pump is to be replaced or repaired. So as we're
~ ~
20 going through those steps, irrespective of whether or not 21 it's on the quarantine list, the only problem with the quaran--
22 tine list is that it basically slows us down in the sense 23 that there's a lot more inertia to get moving in order to 24 get to work on the pump.
25 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Are you at the point where Ov PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8894
31 1 your game plan is finalized for work on this pump?
/o V) 2 MR. WHITNEY: No. No. I have not approved the 3 action plan for that pump yet.
4 MR. CHAFFEE: Do you have an anticipated schedule 5 for when--
6 MR. WHITNEY: I'm expecting to see the first 7 draft of that plan today for my review and comment.
8 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I understand.
9 I would propose, at this point, we leave it on 10 the list until we can complete the arguments for why it 11 shouldn't be on the list.
12 MR. EDISON: No problem.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. So basically we've agreed n 14 on your existing list. We now need to discuss the scope V
15 of the ICS system, then we need to--
16 MR. EDISON: I still wanted to go back to the 17 isolation valve 063. Is there a companion isolation valve 13 in 'the other train?
19 MR. CHAFFEE: That was on my list of additional 20 items. Do you want to go to additional items?
21 'R. EDISON:
M I thought you said we agreed on 22 a list.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: No. I said, we'd agree that the 24 items that are on their list are a minimum set of what we 25 want on the list. I have two things left to do. One is O
O PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
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32 1 to go talk about additional items and the other one was
('M
(_) 2 to talk about the scope of the ICS.
3 MR. BEARD: I'd like to just get the list itself 4 complete and then come back and rescope the ICS.
5 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I think at this point, because 6 of your need to leave, we will--let's go talk about additiona:.
7 items and propose those and then we will have to get back 8 together. I don't think we will have enough time to talk 9 about all of them. Then through the ICS one, let's try 10 to get back and spend what time we can discussing that, yy to make sure we have a good understanding of the current 12 boundary.
yg Okay. The additional items that I've identified -
~) 34 we have identified as possible candida,tes, first is the (V .
15 companion B water system valve to 063. Because of the fact 16 they couldn't budge that valve, the question is in our mind j7 whe'ther or not th'e valve would have the same condition.
18 It's also pcrticularly germane because it turned out, 19
- interestingly enough, at San ofre, when they had the problem l 20 f the check valves, when they went to the train, they found 21 t'he exact same conditions.
22 Do you have any problem with that?
23 MR. WHITNEY: No. That's something we would 24 do anyway. We probably will go find the valve operates 1
25 and, you know, there's not much more you can do to it, other i
l l
PERE.RS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION
! 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95525 TELEPMQNE (916) 973-3394
33 I than tear it apart to find out why.
- 2 MR. BEARD: I guess, if all agreeing, then 3 tomorrow morning's list of an update of items on the quarantine 4 would include that valve listed.
5 MR. WHITNEY: Exactly.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. The next item I have on 7 here, I guess we need some dialog, because of our discussion 8 we just had, relative to the steam headers. It's not clear 9 to me, what would be the impact and import of putting the 10 steam headers on the quarantine list. Is there anything?
11 I don't know, what does it mean if we do that? I guess 12 the concern would be as to whether or not the water getting 13 to steam headers any negative impact. Now, you've already
(~'s 14 told us that you don't anticipate there being any problem, V
15 but I guess because of the fact that they did get possibly 16 some water in the steam header, I guess it's--
17 MR. WHITNEY: Let me propose this, we're not 18 going to be doing any significant maintenance or modifications 19 to the steam headers.anyway. We are doing an investigation 20 as to the quantity, amount and consequence of the water l 21 which did get into those and we treat that on the action -
l
, 12 list as one of the items of investigation. It's not a i
23 mechanical investigation, in the sense that you tear the 24 things down, but rather it's an analytical evaluation of
- 25 what took place.
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l PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORNMON 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-9994 L
34 1 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Let me ask a question of 2 J.T. When you have this kind of a situation associated 3 with a piece of equipment, how did you handle that administra--
4 tively, was that on the quarantine list?
5 MR. BEARD: At Davis-Besse, we had a similar 6 situation where we had to go out and walk down some equipment 7 to determine potential damage and do some analysis of it.
3 And we just, for control purposes and to make sure that 9 it got "all the tender loving care" that you'd like to have 30 it, which is what I think you're planning anyway. We admin-33 istratively carried it on the list.
12 MR. CHAFFEE: So it's to clarify it, I guess 33 is what it is.
14 MR. WHITNEY: Well, that's what I'm saying, we O 15 are doing that by carrying it on the action list rather 16 than carrying it on a quarantine list, which is a sub-com-17 Ponent of the action list.
ig MR. BEARD: I think the point I would like to 39 *make is your action list has a lot of things that are aimed 20 at getting the plant ready for restart that are both not 21 safety related and not event related. In other words, they.
22 are just other items you need to do, I understand. I think, 23 for our purposes, it would be very helpful if we used your 24 document'that had a very clear demarcation as to which items l.
l 25 the NRC was interested in. That's the only reason for having l
l l
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35 1 it on there.
. /m b 2 MR. WHITNEY: Yeah. We don't have very much 3 on that action list which is not event related. The restart 4 part is, with respect to the status of the trip report and 5 root cause report and some of things. But other than that, 6 any routeine maintenance items, surveillances necessary 7 to restart and things like that are not on the action list.
8 MR. BEARD: Well, I guess you annotated at the 9 top of your action list with an asterisk suggesting trouble-10 shooting / repair guidelines apply.
11 MR. WHITNEY: Yes.
12 MR. BEARD: And I think that that's the concept 13 that we're thinking of for the main steam line.
14 MR. WHITNE'Y : That's exactly where I would put Ow 15 it.
16 MR. BEARD: Yeah. And maybe that's the way to 17 do it, so that this asterisk can be used to denote the way 18 you're going to ake care of it and the fact that this is 19 an item of iterest to the NRC.
20 MR. EDISON: When we make up a quarantine list, 21 when we have this list of items, what does that mean? That.
22 is, do those items have to be treated specially? Is there 23 a lot of paperwork generated?
24 MR. CHAFFEE: No. The maindifference is it means 25 that we get into the process of understanding--first, it O
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36 1 means we're very interested in them, two, it means that (3
(_) 2 we get into the process of having a review and comment on 3 that process.
4 We're running out of time--
5 MR. EDISON: And the licensee has to prepare 6 a root cause report and write a corrective action report?
7 MR. CHAFFEE: No. The basic difference is there's 8 some generic guidelines associated with--that we will agree 9 upon with the licensee that need to be follow work for items 10 that are on the quarantine list. What we need to agree 11 to, and that was one of the reasons we were going to have 12 the meeting, may end up being something above and beyond 13 from what they may be 'for some of the other equipment. So g3 34 they may decide they'll just tak'e it and apply generically, V
15 I d'n't o know.
16 What we're trying to do is very clearly in the 17 record, formalize the acceptability of the program that's 13 going to be done for those items that are of specific interes :
I 19 ' to the team. That's what we're trying to do.
20 MR. BEARD: We can always back down from it later.
l 21 MR. BAILEY: You had an item on the list, and 22 your interest wasn't quite as high or there was only an 23 interest in one part of it. Then when the action list comes l 24 through, you can just review that part that you are l
l 25 particularly interested innot review the whole thing.
1 0
, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN AlVER DRIVE. SulTE A.
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37 7,
1 MR. EDISON: .I'm just trying to figure out whether N-,]
2 when we put an item on the list we're going to wind up 3 generating a whole lot of work and paperwork for you that 4 may--
5 MR. CHAFFEE: My approach--
6 MR. EDISON: Maybe it's something of marginal 7 interest--and also for us. Is that the case?
- 8 MR. CHAFFEE: Well, I think in the case of the 9 steam headers, my approach would be, put it on the list, 10 put an annotation that would just simply say that being 11 on the quarantine list is not--will not inhibit the current 12 engineering analysis that's going on, which then will have 13 no impact on their activities, except it's identified on tO 14 the list and it's recognized that we therefore have a keen U
15 interest, and that they won't do any actual, physical work 16 to the system, okay, until we've reviewed probably the analys:.s 17 and may recognize that they want to do something and we'll 18 review any kl.nd of activity which would then transpire from 19 that point.
20 MR. EDISON: I don't know if you realize it--
21 MR. BAILEY: Well, there's--
22 MR. EDISON: --but in the Davis-Besse event, 23 when these various items got on the list, eventually weeks--
24 many weeks later, the licensee is submitting large investigat:.on ,
25 root-cause engineering reports. We had to designate reviewern PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN MlVER DRIVE. SulTE A SACRAMENTD CALIFORNIA 95325 -
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38 1 at NRR to sit down and review these reports and write up 2 SER's. And when it got to a very involved thing. So--
3 if we have a very marginal thing, something that is not 4 of interest to us, we don't want to get into that whole 5 thing.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: We can take things off the list 7 and maybe the steam header thing will be something we will 8 take off the list.
9 MR. BAILEY: Well, even an analysis has a 10 potential trap in it, in that they might go off and do some 11 analysis and we might decide later that that's not really 12 the way we would like to see the analysis done. So that i
13 could be a problem there too.
(~') 14 MR. BEARD: Well, I think the point is that we M
15 are interested in, number one, having the licensee do what 16 he's already planned on doing, making sure he does it, 17 anaylzing the condition of having water in the steam lines.
18 And so we're saying it's the engineering analysis of the 19 ' overfill of steam generators and spilling into the steam 20 lines. That's the point we are interested in.
21 MR. BAILEY: Then you've got -
22 MR. EDISON: I have no problem with this and 23 I'm not focusing on the steam lines--
24 MR. CHAFFEE: I understand--
25 MR EDISON: What I'm focusing on is items on h e i
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CDRPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972 8594
39 1 the quarantine list generate--can generate a great deal O 2 ef worx for beth gerties en1ess we ere--
3 MR. CHAFFEE: So we need to be alert--
4 MR. EDISON: --really serious about them, we 5 have to be careful of that.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I understand what you're 7 saying.
3 MR. WHITNEY: In the case of the main steam lines, 9 this should not be a casual determination--
10 MR. EDISON: That's right.
13 MR. WHITNEY: --because those steam lines are 12 very large, very long and there's an awful lot of equipment y3 connected to them. If they're under quarantine, I would 14' define that to certainly mean the first off isolation valve c)s, t
15 off of those lines, which is an enormous amount of piping.
16 It. al'so restricts us from doing any kind of routine maintean-17 ance in terms of calibration of controllers and just the 13 normal wear and tear type maintenance that you would expect 19 to do. It will prevent us from doing that. It will be 20 a very difficult thing for us to do, such things as how l
21 do we lay 'them up and'when do we lay them up. Then we are 22 going to have to come to you and get approvals to do such 23 simple things as that. It will probably prevent us from
- 24 completing the cooldown of the plant.
25 MR. BEARD: I would suggest for that item--
/
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l l 1 MR. CHAFFEE: Isn't the plant copled down right
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\l 2 now?
3 MR. WHITNEY: No, not really. We're still running 4 the secondary plant. We haven't broke back in. And when 5 we do that, we'll lay up the steam lines, which means we'll 6 pin them and fill them with water. And so you're preventing 7 us from moving into those kinds of conditions if you do a that.
9 Right now, we have no reports of water hammer, 10 we have no reports of damage. We have done a walk down 11 of them and those lines are not suspect. And I would argue 12 that they need not be on the quarantine list and we would 13 provide to you all of the information necessary to support that determ'ination.
{) 14 MR. BAILEY: Maybe we should get more information 15 _
16 before~we make the final d'ecision.
17 MR. CIIAFFEE: Off the record.
13 (Discusgion off the record.)
MR. CHAFFEE:
19 We ought to go back on the record 20 to say all that.
21 Okay. The question is whether,or not the steam 12 headers should be on the quarantine list. !7e are requesting 23 that no activities occur on the steam hea'ders that could
~
24 impact on the loss of information, in terms of the as-found 25 condition. We will initiate a dialog between NRR and a 13 G
PETERS SHoRTHANo REPDHTING CORPORATION 3433 MMERICAN RtVER DRIVE, EW8TE A SACRAMENTD, CALIFORNIA 95325 TELEPHONE (916) 972-8994 e l
41 1 iicensee representative, to discuss the need for having
2 this thing formally put on the quarantine list.
3 MR. WHITNEY: Is it the feeling of the team here 4 that they should be on the list?
5 MR. CHAFFEE: At this point, I don't know. I 6 want to find out from NRR if there's anything that we're 7 unaware of that would make it clear the need for them to 8 be on the list and for the quarantine to exist for some 9 period of time. I want to make sure that we aren't over-10 looking something.
11 My belief is, at this point, based on what people 12 here say, that it doesn't appear as though they need to 13 be, but we need to verify that.
14 MR. BEARD: I think the main concern is that (A../
the activities that you might pursue, you said something 15 f
16 about calibrating equipment that's attached to the steam 17 lines, you said something about putting the plant in wet 18 layup. If we can be assured that those kinds of actions 19 would not in any way cause a loss of information, that we 20 would like to look at later--for example, suppose somebody decides to do some non-destructive examinations. That 21 22 information wouldn't be lost through those activities, I'd 23 say, do not put it on the list. Now, if, on the other hand, 24 there's some hazard that we don't have the expertise 25 potentially to recognize, we just want to make sure we're bw/
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42 1 not overlooking it, that's all.
2 MR. CHAFFEE: Because you have a meeting you 3 have to go to at 9:00, I would propose that I run--at least 4 list the additional items that we have questions on and 5 then we need to decide on a time when we can meet again 6 and further evaluate them.
7 The other questionable items I have is, the heater 8 relief valves, the feedwater heater relief valves that may 9 or may not have actuated, since there is some belief that 4
10 they may have lifted. We have had previous problems at 11 this plant with those lifting due to paying steam. Basically ,
12 at this point, the question is in my mind as to whether 13 or not they should go on that.
I' 14 I'm open to a discussion. I can think that there 15 Probably are some rationals for not, but we need to discuss 4
16 that.
17 MR. EDISON: Are they on the action list? Are 13 y'ou looking into those valves?
19 MR. WHITNEY: We are looking into the event, 20 the report that there was a iell'ef Talve that lifted. As 21 I told you earlier, right now the speculation is that there-22 was not the pegging steam related relief valves. It was 23 another relief valve. The only supply of steam that other 24 one would have would have been the high pressure steam bottle <1 25 up in the turbine following the trip, which would be an
. O PETERS SHoRTHANo REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SUITE A
. SACRAMENTD, CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 973 3394
43 1 appropriate reason for it to lift and would have nothing O
(s 2 to do with anything we're interested in.
3 MR. EDISON: I have the same comment on that 4 as I had on the steam lines, that there's something to be 5 preserved for some reason, preserve it, quarantine it. You 6 know, you lifted a relief valve--
7 MR. BAILEY: Wait a minute. The set points on a the makeup, pegging steam controller and the relief valve 9 set poir.t obviously would be the two things.
10 MR. EDISON: What you care about is whether they 11 are right or not. Suppose they were off and the thing 12 lifted.
13 MR. WHITNEY: In any case, our normal work procedure in all of that equipment out there is that if a technician Q
V 14 15 is dispatched to work on that, he will do an as found 16 calibration, and we will recover the information that says 17 what the set point was. So that's always a part of any is work that is 'done. I don't think we would be losing any 39 data even if we didn't have it on the action list.
20 MR. BEARD: But 1.s it appears, it's not currently 21 on your action list.
22 MR. WHITNEY: No.
23 MR. CHAFFEE: I would like to propose, when we 24 meet again, we discuss this and you give us all of your 25 arguments for why this should not be on the quarantine list.
bv PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. EUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972 3394
'l 44 1 The only other item we have here is this IC U 2 inverter--
4 MR. CHAFFEE: --lC inverter, and I will defer 5 to J.T. to describe it.
6 MR. BEARD: The concern that's in my mind is 7 that there is a scenario, I believe, where inverters can 8 perform through current limiters and things like this to 9 where there's a voltage spike on, say, the input and output.
10 The thing will go into current limit mode for some inverters 11 and also fold over the voltage. And if it folds over the 12 voltage, it could very well be, for loss of ICS and the actio'n of the power monitor was, in fact, proper, given
~
13 3 14 the voltage that was coming into it. And at this plant,'
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15 apparently, we're hearing more about voltage spikes. We 16 heard the other day that there was a loss of lighting in 17 a certain area, the lights dim momentarily.
18 I heard yesterday, for the first time, about 19 ' loss of security computer and various other things around.
20 I'm ha'ing v a general concern the reason the ICS power was 21 loss may not have been due to the power monitors or the 22 ICS but was, in fact, due to some transient that caused 23 the inverters to behave in some fold-over mode which in 24 turn caused the power monitors to do what we wanted them 25 to do.
nV i PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. SulTE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95825 TELEPHONE (916) 972-5594
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45 1 So for that reason, I'd like to have some trouble-
'(/ 2 shooting plan developed to look how these converters respond, 3 if they have this voltage fold-over capability, et cetera, 4 et cetera. And I do not intend that the inverters would 5 be quarantined in the sense you don't use them. That's 6 not the intent at all. But there wold be some systematic 7 look at the inverters to see if that was really, in fact, 8 the problem.
9 MR. EDISON: So you don't propose putting them 10 on the quarantine list but you're asking them to do some 11 investigation.
12 MR. BEARD: I want them done under the trouble-13 shooting and guidelines that we're talking about but I don't 14 itned that the operation of the inverters would be affected.
(v~}
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Can we agree to that?
16 MR. BEARD: That's one inverter we're talking 17 about, by the way.
18 MR. WHITNEY: That's much like the program we've 19 already outlined for them anyways.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay.
21 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Last time--
12 MR. WHITNEY: So you're saying it's not on the 23 quarantine list, but it needs--
24 MR. EDISON: Put it on your action list.
25 MR. WHITNEY: --it's on the action list.
O_}
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1 46 1 MR. BEARD: Put it on your action list, and define ,
O V 2 in some way or other, the concern that I just expressed.
3 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. I've also got on here waist 4 gat header compressor. I understand that thing failed.
5 I don't know if it failed because of overflow on the makeup 6 tank or not, but I have--I have--I've been getting that 7 impression.
8 MR. WHITNEY: Now, that's the first I've heard 9 about the waist gat compressor failing.
10 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Let me phrase that as a 11 question. I had been told that it had failed. Is that 12 true or not.
13 MR. WHITNEY: The only thing that I know that 14 took place down there was the waste gas sur'e tank from 15 which the compressor takes its suction had water in it.
16 Now, there's a level control system on that tank and it's 17 not inappropriate for water to be in that tank. If that 13 were to occur, I believe the waist gat compressor is locked 19 out. I have not heard anyone say anything about a failure 20 of that waist ~ gat compressor.
21 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. At this time then, that's 22 Probably the answer for why it shouldn't be on there. Let 23 me ask you--
24 MR. BEARD: Because I think our interviews have 25 indicated that the tank overflowed and there was water into
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47 1 the compressor.
O 2 MR. BAILEY: Alonzo mentioned that--
3 MR. BEARD: A.J.
4 MR. BAILEY: A.J. mentioned that there was both 5 smoke. And I asked Ron Colombo or at least one of the 6 interviews of Ron Colombo was sittin on, he seemed to have 7 some specific knowledge on the compressor. He said that
- t 8 the oil had been changed in the compressor and the compressor 9 had been re-run and it was, in fact, operational, as I 10 understood Ron. So whether or not it smoked or not, it 11 appeared to be operational, at this time is what I understood 4
12 him to say.
13 MR. BEARD: Maybe what we want is--
l14 MR. CHAFFEE: Let me ask a different question 15 then, can you pleast have somebody bring us up to date on 16 all the information that's known relative to this thing?
17 MR. WHITNEY: The waist gat compressor?
18 MR. CHAFFEE: Yes. And then the following question 19 is, what was the impact of the makeup tank overflowing, 20 did it in fact overflow, what impact did it have on anything.
21 MR. BAILEY: So that would be data that would
- 22. already have been 16st on waist gat compressor.
23 MR. BEARD: Maybe.
24 MR. WHITNEY: We felt like that's just like the 25 makeup pump, it's really external to the entire event. Those O
PETERS BHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SUITE A SACRAMENTO. CALIFORNIA 95835 TELEPHONE (916) 973-5894
48 1 are consequences of other things. We will note what took n
d 2 place, you know, all this work has been done under a work 3 request and that kind of thing. There wasn't any reason 4 to consider that that was a precursor or in any way jeopardized 5 the response of the plant.
6 MR. BEARD: What we did at Davis Besse was sort 7 of flush'it out in the sense that this was a complicanting 8 ingredient on the event, but not require the tremendous 9 degree of troubleshooting that we would for an action plan 10 item or quarantine item. But I think the most important i
11 thing is like what Al's already suggested, we need to get 12 up to date as to what did happen..
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Now, at this point. if we--
14 MR. EDISON: Same thing on the rad-- .
15 MR. CHAFFEE: Monitor?
16 MR. EDISON: --rad monitor.
17 MR. CHAFFEE: We need an update on-- We need 13 to obtain an understanding of exactly what occurred relative 19 ' to the radiation monitor.
20 MR. EDISON: We still don't know if you burned 21 the pump out or--
22 MR. WHITNEY: We burned the seals out of the 23 pump.
24 MR. EDISON: Burned the seals out of the pump.
25 MR. CHAFFEE: And that was due to?
(
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE, SUITE A SACR 1MENTO. CALWORNIA 95825 TELEPMDNE (916) 972 3394
49 1 MR. WHITNEY: Running with no flow.
t
\"')' 2 MR. CHAFFEE: And the reason it ran with no flow 3 was due to--
4 MR. WHITNEY: Safety features isolated the reactor 5 building and there was no flow path.
6 MR. CHAFFEE: And that was as per design?
7 MR. WHITNEY: As per design. It's been recognized 8 in the past and engineering has determined not to fix it 9 pending complete replacement of the rad monitor at the next 10 outage with a new design for the whole system.
11 MR. BAILEY: That's what I was going to ask.
4 12 MR. CHAFFEE: That answers that question. You're 13 now up to date.
/ 14 MR. EATON: 'No reason to quarantine it then.
C]
15 MR. WHITNEY: It was fixed the same day and put 16 back in service. It's just got a little, tiny roots blower 17 type compressor on the thing, a little positive displacement 18 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Then we will not put it 19- on the list. I guess I would request, however, that all 20 the information you just proposed-- You must have it written 21 up in a work--maintenance work order or something. I would' 22 like to get a c6py of that maintenance--
23 MR. BAILEY: There may be a lesson to be learned 24 here.
25 MR. E3ISON: We need--they need to write down O
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER DRIVE. BUITE A SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 972 9894
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l 50 1
the basis for not putting it on the list.
) 2 MR. BAILEY: There may be a lesson to be learned 3 here.
It seemed to me a little strange if we had a design I 4
where we close a section off to the pump and this--is this 5 under consideration for change?
6 MR. WHITNEY: That's why we're changing it. This ;
7 goes way back to 1970 and the original design basis for 8
the plant and the changing requirements for hydrogen 9 monitors and different things that were in existence at 10 that time and the fact that there was a--if I remember right, 11 there was no class-one pump you could get for this kind 12 of service. So we ended up with a class-two pump or an 13 industrial grade pump in there and had to put class-one
,o 14 things around it to take it out of service in the event
('#)
15 of a loca. And so you couldn't do both at once. It's way 16 over design, it's their own kind of application for this 17 type of a device. But it works.
~
13 MR. BAILEY: I guess my interest here is more 19 1 generic flexibility, if anyone else out there has the same 20 situation.
21 MR. WHITNEY: I doubt if anybody ever did.
22 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. At this point, again, because 23 I of your need to go to this next meeting, I would propose
{
24 tilat we postpone until we meet again to talk about the scope 25 of the ICS system. And at this point, we need to decide
~
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51 I upon when you can meet next to talk about the scoping of
_s d' 2 the ICS and deal with whichever of these other questions 3 we have in order to finalize the current scope of the 4 quarantine list and to talk about the generic guidelines 5 associated with the activities on the quarantine list.
6 Do you have any proposals on when--
7 MR. WHITNEY: 11:00?
8 MR. CHAFFEE: Any problems?
9 MR. EATON: If I can get through badging.
10 MR. BEARD: Two of us have to go through your 11 badging process. I, for one, want to be involved in the 12 discussion of generic guidelines.
13 MR. CHAFFEE: Okay. Why don't-- 11:30?
14 MR. EDISON: Our call can't take place until
[v^)
15 about 10:00. We can try it, but it's going to be lunchtime.
16 MR. CHAFFEE: What time do you--how about if 17 we do it at-- I would recommend that we try and do it at is 1:00, because there may be some delays and I would prefer 19 to shoot for 1:00 and make sure everybody is here.
~
20 MR. EDISON: Another thing I would suggest is 21 that the licensee have a representative who can talk about 22 the steam headers in on the call, so that the guys back 23 there ask questions about, you say you walked it down, did 24 you look at this or, you know, what did you do about that, 25 what'does it look like?
PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION 3433 AMERICAN RIVER ORIVE, SulTE A BACRAMENTD. CALIFORNIA 95535 TELEPHONE (916) 972 5594
L 52 1
MR.. CHAFFEE: 1:00 we'll have a meeting to talk 2 about this stuff. On the steam header thing, we will get 3 on it and raise--find out when an RR is available to talk.
4 If you would have somebody give me a call to tell me who 5 the person is, what his availability is, we will arrange 6 for that discussion to occur.
7 MR. WHITNEY: Where will we call you? Do you 8 have a number or something or here that you're using?
9 MR. EDISON: Are you going to make the call from 10 the trailer?
11 MR. BEARD: How about that conference room that 12 they toks us to use here?
13 MR. EATON: You can be paged anyway.
14 MR. CHAFFEE: Just have them get--pass the informa--
f)s w
15 tion to Pat Bell at the resident office.
16 Okay. At this point, unless there's any comments, 17 I'd like to conclude the meeting.
13 MR. BEARDi I just have one thing, are you going to get us copies of the current action plan?
19 20 MR. WHITNEY: Whenever we meet again.
21 MR. BEARD: Okay. Fine.
- 33 MR. CHAFFEE: Thank you.
23 Off the record.
24 (Thereupon, the hearing completed at 9:18 a.m.)
25 --ooooo--
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53 7 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I
N 2 1, liillicent R. Borgarding, an Electronic Reporter, 3 do hereby certify:
4 That I am a disinterested person herein; that 5 the foregoing Nuclear Regulatory Commission interview was 6 recorded and thereafter transcribed by me into 7 typewriting.
a I further certify that I am not of counsel or 9 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in jo any uay interested in the cutcome of said hearing.
jj IU UITJESS UHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 12 this 2nd day of January, 1936.
13 .
V 4 14 / '
MILLICER R. BORG g dG Transcriber 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 II 23 24 25
/Q v
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