ML20129B679
| ML20129B679 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 07/11/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507290231 | |
| Download: ML20129B679 (74) | |
Text
P3 S-UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:
DAVIS-BESSE INCIDENT (INTERVIEW AND MEETING)
(CLOSED)
SFRCS Actuated Equipment and Operations.
(Continued from July 10, 1985.)
LOCATION: OAK HARBOR, OHIO Pages 1 - 72 DATE: July 11, 1985 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS Official Reporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, D. C., 20001 (202) 347-3700 8507290231 850711 PDR ADOCK 05000346 T PDR
Joe Wal 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COfif11SSION I
3 ------
4 T!!URSDAY , JULY ll, 1985 5 ------
6 7 MEETING BETUEEN TIIE NRC FACT-FINDING TEAft AND TOLEDO EDISON 8 ON 9 SFRCS ACTUATED EQUIPMENT AND OPERATIONS 10 (Continued from July 10, 1985.)
II NRC FACT-FINDING f1Ef1BERS PRESENT:
12 J. T. BEARD
) 13 14 TOLEDO EDISON MEMBERS PRESENT:
15 SUSIIIL JAIN l l
16 LARRY STALTER 17 I:ENT YARGER l
18 l
l 19 l
20 i
21 l
22 l
23 24 ederal Reporters, Inc.
25
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'#1-1-SueWalshi PR
--.OCEEDINGS---------
2 (9: 22 a.m.)
< 3 MR.' BEARD: -Okay. This is a continuation of 4 the previous meeting the Fact Finding Team has- had for 5 the purpose of discussing the design and operation of the 6 steam feed and reactor control system here at Davis Besse.
7 As'I remember -- correct me if I'm wrong, -
8 .Sushil.---there are two' topics that we need to wrap up on.
9 One is the overall logic diagram for the reactor control 10 system that I gave you --
Il MR. JAIN: Right.
12 MR. BEARD: -- on Monday or Tuesday, whenever it 13 was. The second area is a continuation of our discussions k
14 on some of the equipment that is actuated by the reactor 15 control system.
16 MR. JAIN: Right.
17 MR. BEARD: I'think we~ covered one of those 18 pieces of. ' equipment, and'we had like three that we wanted 19 to cover.- And I think we are in the middle of the second 20 one. I 21 MR._JAIN: Correct. -l l
22 MR.' BEARD: Something like that.
23 MR. JAIN: Right.
,4 Y4 - 24 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now,'if you have no particular
- Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 preference, what.mygpreference is, because I-think it's the
s 3 ,
jl-2-SueWalsh 1 far' more important of the two topics we need to address,
.2 is +I aould prefer that we talk about the overall' logic )
1
+ 3 diagram for.the1 system, and then put- the actuated equipment 4 second,fif that's okay with you.
5 MR. JAIN: Okay. We have reviewed.the package 6 that you gave us the other day.
'7 .MR . BEARD: -You mean the cartoons?
8 MR. JAIN: Yes. Overall the logic diagram there-9 looks;very good,,but what'I would do here would be maybergo 10 page by:page.-. I see you have.aLdifferent package than I 11 do.
12 .MR.; BEARD: I probably do. I.think what I have 13 is a copy'that is not'as complete.as the one you areftalking.
O 14 about. I.may have that.one.
. 15 The copy that you have is~the one that we handed 16 out at the earlier meeting which.I think is the same with 17 the exception that that package included the tables of :the
!3 1 equipment being actuated.
19 MR. JAIN: ' Right.
20 MR. BEARD: And --
21 MR.-JAIN:L I. haver--
1
- 22 MR. BEARD: Okay. That'might be; easier than my 23 . finding -- I've got so.much' stuff.here it's difficult to kacp 24 track of it.
' Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. JAIN: I'think the overall' logic diagrams.look l
a ,
4 j
& __ _.n __ .. . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _
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- 1-3-SueWalsh pretty good. 1I think a'significant input that'I had was 2 on the tables here. And maybe it will be -- it's your 3 preference, do.you want to go item ~by item-or maybe should 4 I just give-you a copy?
5 MR. BEARD: Can you describe the general nature 6 of the corrections that we would need to make?- And then we 7 could just exchange a copy. That might be more efficient 8 than trying to copy them down as you read'them.
9 MR. JAIN: Okay. The general nature of the input 10 here was that the list of actuated equipment here was not 11 compl'e te . And I have made. corrections here to' make the list 12 , complete as we think the SFRCS works.
13 MR. BEARD: Okay. So you are saying that to be h
14 correct, we need to add some more items?
15 MR. JAIN: That's'one part of the input.
16 MR. BEARD: .Okay.
17 MR. JAIN: The other are the typos, which I won't 18 go through. s 19 MR. BEARD: . Yeah.
20 MR. JAIN: The third one is from the third column 21 relating to MS-106A.
22 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute. Are you on Page l' or 23 Page.2of.this list?
4 24 MR. JAIN: Page 1.
Ace-Federal Repmters,- Inc.
.25 .MR. BEARD: And third column?
^
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_ . _ - _____:. -_---____--_____:.-.______-_.__-__2_____ -
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- 1-4-SueWalshi .
MR'. ?JAIM: Third column-on'the right here, loss 2 of four RCPs only.
3 ;MR. BEARD: Yes.
4 MR. JAIN: Okay. It says check closed. It should 5 be AF-3869; and'then it has MS-106A, Number 2 main steam to 6 AFBT-1.
7 MR. BEARD: Yes.
8 MR. JAIN: There is an asterisk there --
9 MR. BEARD: Yes.
10 MR. JAIN: -- and the asterisk I believe belongs at 11 the next page, at the -end of the next page where it says: If 12 open at the time of the trip valve must be manually closed.
13 MR. BEARD: Oh, I see. It is on the;second page,'
6 14 but we need to draw attention to that. Is that what-you.are 15 saying?
16 MR. JAIN: That's not my problem. I'm not -- my 17 problem is that the loss cff four RCPs, trip of the SFRCS does 18 not send a close signal to MS-106A.
19 That may have been your intent when you made the
-20 note, but by. the token of -- I thought this list was intended 21 to mean all the automatically actuated valve on a given para-
.22 meter, if you will. And this particular valve will not get a 23 close signal because it's under the check close column; .t i will 24 not get a close signal for a loss of Lfour RCPs.
Aca-Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. BEARD: .-Okay. You raised a general question ~I I
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _s _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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ill-5-SueWalshi would likE'to ask you about. Ea'ch ' of these columns starts 2 out, like 'if you look at the first column with a category l- 3 marked . " Check Close" and then af ter a number of items it's 4 marked " Check Open" and then the third category, " Check Trip.
{ 5 RMR . JAIN: Right.
6 MR. BEARD: Okay. By " Check Close" . and that kind 7 of language, do they really mean it gets a close signal?
8 MR. JAIN: That's'what I assumed. I don't know 9 where this table is from but that's what I assumed you meant 10 when you give us this table.
11 MR. BEARD: Well, let me ask the question a 12 different way. Forget where the table is from; I know where .
- 13 it's from . From your un'derstanding of the way the system ,
14 is designed and operates, should a more proper title be these signals to this column get -- I mean, excuse me, equipment 15 16 in this first column where it's marked " Check Closed" really 17 get a closed signal from the SFRCS system?
18 MR. JAIN: Correct.
19 MR. STALTER: Yes.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay. So, I think that the term 21 " check" is unnecessary.and may be confusing.
22 MR. JAIN: Yeah. I think it may be from a 23 procedure, like ATOG or something.
24 MR. BEARD: But having taken care of that general Ace-Fede of Reporters, Inc.
25 question, let me come back to the specific one' that.you raise l
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- #1-6-SueWals11
- with regard to this third column-under the loss of the reactor
'2 coolant pumps. ~ MS-106A does not get~a' closed signal?
3 MR. JAIN: Correct.
4 MR. BEARD: So, this really should not be there?
$ 5 _MR. JAIN: That was- my intent.
, 6 MR. BEARD: Okay. So that's really an item-that 7 is different from the_first category where we needed to add 8 items; this item should probably should be taken off.
,_ .9 MR. JAIN: And if you take that off, you might want
'10 to take-the note off, too;
~
11 MR. BEARD: .Is that the only place the note applies?
12 MR. JAIN: That's the only place where --
13 'MR. BEARD: On the second page, there is a similar o
i 14 entry for MS-107A.
Z 15 MR. JAIN: That applies there, too.
2 16 MR. BEARD: It applies - - the - note does, but should 17 that item really be deleted?
18 -MR. JAIN: Correct. The comment applies there, 19 too.
, 20 MR. BEARD:- Okay. So, in that case we'can also 21 delete the footnote.
22 MR. JAIN: Correct..
23 MR. BEARD: _Okay. All right. Did you have any 24 items of a different nature other than those two?
I . Ace-Fedorol paporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. JAIN: Okay; Let me -- I'think I did:have -- I J
t a
4 4 8
.#1-7-SueWalshi don' t know if. you wish to make this. clarification or not, 2 but this table to me, at least, is confusing as far as 3 . understanding actuated equipment response, because of the 4 overriding actions.as to which valve would go where.
l 5 Por example, MS-lC6, 106A, 107, 107A will go 1
+
6 closed if you had low pressure in both generators.
I don't 7 know if that's totally evident from here. Maybe you will 8 take some time to find that out from here.
9 MR. BEARD: --Let me see if I understand you. You 10 are saying that like, for example, on Page 1, the first 11 column says: Steam line 1 low pressure (overriding action) ,
12 and so they are saying that certain valves will open and 13 certain things get tripped?
14 MR. JAIN: Correct.
15 _ MR. BEARD: And one of the items says, under 16- check open, or actually I guess we are calling it open now, 17 and.that's 106A would get an open signal.
18 And I think your comment is saying that that's 19 true if that's the only actuation?
20 MR. JAIN: Right.
21 MR. BEARD: But if you have both channels low 22 , pressure, then this.is not true?
23 MR.^JAIN: Correct.
24 MR. BEARD: Okay.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: Or' the 'other generator is also bad, then
_. _ .-_ _ --. . . .__ -- -. _ -. = _ _ _ _ _ _ ._______
4 9
t
- 1-8-SueWalshi this will also.get closed.
2 'MR. BEARD: That's what I'm trying to say, too.
- 3 So-this is true some of the time but not all the time?
4 MR. JAIN: Correct.
- 5 MR. BEARD
- -I certainly agree with you that-it's e
6 confusing. How would you suggest that we could clarify this, 7 or did you give any thought to'that matter?
4 1
o 8 MR. JAIN: Yeah. The table that I do like is a:
9 matrix format of all the SFRCS-actuated equipment that we 10 made back in 1977. I could give you a copy of that.
11 'To me, that has been the best source of under-12 standing which valve will'go where.
13 MR. BEARD: A matrix?
14 MR. JAIN: Correct.
15 MR. BEARD:- Is this matrix included in any official 16 Company documents such-as Systems Procedures or-Emergency 17 Procedures anyplace, or is this not included?
18 MR. JAIN: It was included. And I think that was 19 the only. place it.was includdd was the September '77 LER,
'O 20 September 24, 1977 event at Davis-Besse' LER.-
21 .MR. BEARD: If you think that your matrix is a 22 better way to convey the way the system operates, and are 23 willing to give me a copy, I certainly would like ba consider 24 using it. Because the whole intent is for me, as a member of Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 this' Team,.to. understand how this system is designed and E
10
!#1-9-SueWalshi . operates. ~And, then secondarily to write a report so that 2 other people'can. understand it.
3 MR. JAIN: Uh-huh.
4 MR. B EARD': - And if your matrix is a better way and i 5 eliminates confusion, I certainly would like to consider it.
- 6 MR. JAIN
- You realize that it could be personal' 7 preferences. For some people, this~is-better; for some 8 people, that=could be better.
9 MR. BEARD: My preference is whichever. is the
- 10 clearest. And so I would like to accept your offer to give 11 me a copy.of that.
12 MR. JAIN: Okay. I will do-that when we take a 13 break.
f 14 MR.. BEARD: All.right. When that document is
- 15 received, I would like that entered as one of the exhibits 16 so that the record will be complete that this is what we 17 received.
4
.18 (The document referred to is I 19 marked as Exhibit 1 and-submitted 20 for the record, not. attached herein.)
21 MR. BEARD: 'Okay. Let me ask you a general 4
22 question. You said earlie'r that the kinds of changes that 23 need to be made to this set of tables is that a number of 24 items need to be added to be complete.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: Right.
_ }
/- . - - ' .A, -,,z 4 , - ,, -- c. -
r- 1 11'
- 1-10-SueWalsh MR. BEARD: It looks like two of them need to be 2 deleted.
3 MR. JAIN: Right.
4 MR. BEARD: Can you give me a feel for, like the 5 number of changes that we are talking about to make this thing 6 correct? 'You know, are' we talking onesies, twosies, twenty, 7 a hundred?
8 MR. JAIN: I would make about ten changes on Page 9 1 and maybe five or six on Page 2. Somehow the other, Page 10 l'and Page 2, were different.
'11 MR. BEARD: Okay. So, something on the order of 12 fifteen changes?
13 MR. JAIN: Right.
14 MR. BEARD: Okay. And I guess if I looked at the 15 table here, just roughly eyeballing it, there is probably, 16 would you say, twenty items on a page, twenty-five items on 17 a page?
18 MR. JAIN: It's hard for me to --
19 MR. BEARD: Roughly.- I don't want to count ther, l' 20 but I'm just saying, you know, that if I just look at the 21 first page of this table there is -something on the order of, 22 say, twenty-five or thirty-five items. .So, the two pages -- '
23 .I mean, the total that-is on this when it was. handed.to you, 1
24 let's say, . there is thirty ! items on each page; that is sixty Ace-Federtl Reporters, Inc.
25 items.
-( .a ,
s 12
- 1-ll-SueWalsh MR. JAIN: Okay.-
2 MR. BEARD: And then'we'were saying-a minute ago, 3 to make it correct we need,to correct something on the order 4 of<fifteer changes.
5 MR. JAIN: Correct.
6 MR. BEARD: Okay.
7 MR. JAIN: Disregarding the typos.
8 .
MR. BEARD: Yeah._ The' typing leaves a bit to be 9 ~ desired.
10 MR. STALTER: Is'there any need to continue with 11 your table if you are not going to use it, if you are going to 12 use the table we supply you?
13 MR. BEARD: What I would prefer to do is receive 14 from you folks your mark-up of this table so that I can know-15 where this really needs to be corrected.
16 MR. STALTER: Okay.
17 MR. BEARD: But, in terms of what I will probably put in-the Team's report it's most likely. going to be the
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18 -
19 matrix that Sushil' suggested.- But obviously I haven't made 20 -a final decision on that. I won't until I look at it.-
21 But that's the way I would like to leave it if-l 22 that's.okay with you..
23 - MR. JAIN: Sure.
24 .MR. STALTER:
Okay.
Ace-Fedwal hportws, Inc. <
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25 MR. BEARD: .;If that's the case, have'we covered O
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- 1-12-SueWalsh at least in a general way 'the kinds of things that you are 2 gcing to give us a copy of that covers the specifics?
3 - MR. JAIN: Yeah, I think so.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay. So if we can arrange to get that
-5 Xeroxed'somehow we can --
6 MR. JAIN: May I take my comment back on the note 7 here.
8 MR.-BEARD: The asterisk, you mean?
9 MR. JAIN: Yes.
10 MR. BEARD: You found another valve that it really 11 applies to?
12 MR. JAIN: Yes.
13 MR. BEARD: That's on the second page ir. the middle 14 column,-MS-1077 15 MR.,JAIN: Right. And I have a correction there.
16 MR. STALTER: 107A.
17 MR. BEARD: 107A?
18 MR. STALTER: Yes.
19 MR. JAIN: And I have a correction there, too, be-cause the low-high level of RPT trips' don't close the valve,
~
20 21 only the low pressure closes the-valve.
22 MR. BEARD: So,.that the --
23 MR. JAIN:- The middle column is for.three trips.
24 MR. BEARD:' Yec. I see that that's the way .the i Ace-Federol Reporters, Inc.
~25 column is labeled; .And'what you are saying is as far as 5
4
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- 1-13-Suewald MS-107A goes, which is only listed once under that column, 2 it --
3 MR. JAIN: Right.
4 MR. BEARD: -- doesn't apply to the three things 5 that the column is titled for?
J 6 MR. JAIN: Right.
7 MR. BEARD: It only applies to one of them?
8 MR. JAIN: Yes. And if you say-in parenthesis
~9 'there, only on' steam line tow pressure, then you don't 10 need the asterisk.
- 11 MR. BEARD
- So, we can still take out the 12 asterisk footnote -- :
13 MR. JAIN: Yes.
', 14 MR. BEARD: -- and by adding that parenthetically 15 we.will have it correct?
16 MR. JAIN: Yes.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay. Anything else you happen to 18 remember?
19 MR. JAIN: I think that is it.
20 ,
. MR. BEARD: Okay.
21 MR. JAIN: This is okay.
22 MR. BEARD: . Yeah, I. j ust did that for the con-
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'23 venience of the reader,- that when he reads all these tables 24 and it says, for example,'MS-375 main' steam drain gets a Ace-Federol Reporters, Inc. '
o 25 closed signal, that.he,would have some better understanding i : ,
_ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ . _ _ . _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ _i_u __[ i m ____.___.___1._____ ___n_______.2._____.._
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1 1 15
'#1-14-SueWalsR Lif there was a cartoon there'he could refer to.
2 MR. JAIN: But those valves don't show --
3 MR. BEARD: I know. I-know. -But the majority 4 of-the ones that are related to.this event are.
5 But I would intend that'the= Team report would have 6 some drawing similar to this for the convenience of the read-7 er, maybe not this drawing. Okay.
8 MR. JAIN: If you were using this, I would sug-9 _ gest you show the motor operator. .
10
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MR. BEARD: Oh, j eah, yeah. This was for pre-II paratory. Okay.
12 Where do we want to go here.
13 MR. JAIN: I am on 3, that's okay.
. I I
14 MR. BEARD: Okay. Figure 3,'that's the one that 15 shows the buffers and logics.
10 MR.-JAIN: Right.
17 MR. BEARD: Okay. All right. For the record 18 I will point out, this is the figure that I drew up to try 19 and convey in some simplified way. the way the reactor con-20 . trol system would respond to steam generator low level in-21 puts.
22 MR. JAIN: Right. . I .will go through the . inputs-
-23 here one by one. ;
24 MR. BEARD: Fine.
Ace-Federal Itoporters, Inc.
. 25 , MR. JAIN: On the left side here where we show a
- _ _1
16
- 1-15-SueWalsd the steam generator level instrumentation. cabinets --
2 MR. BEARD: Yeah.
3 MR. JAIN: '---- just a suggestion there. We are 4 showing the low level bistables but the logic also has a 5 high level bistable.
0 MR. BEARD: That's correct.
7 ;MR. JAIN: And.it's an Or situation.
8 MR. BEARD: So, if I wanted to portray on this 9 figure high level also, I would.want to do that?
'10 MR. JAIN: Right.
II MR. BEARD: I'm not sure for the purpose of 12 covering this event that it's necessary.
13 MT. JAIN: That'.s why I'said it was a suggestion.
I4 MR. BEARD: Right.
15 NR.-JAIN: If you want to include it, that's I0 fine.
END #1 17 Simons flws 18 19 21
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1 Sim 2-1 I The gate one slash two immediately following I 2
the cyclic -- the steam generator level instrumentation 3
cabinet, it 1s just a different terminology I guess. We 4
people here, the way it is drawn here, we consider that 5 as an "and" gate.
0 MR. STALTER: This is drawn as an "and" gate.
7 MR. YARGER: Yes.
8 MR. JAIN: It is one out of two.
9
. MR. STALTER: Which would make it an "or" gate.
O MR. BEARD: I know. Unfortunately, the drawing 11 that I used I recognize this really serves an "or" function.
12 But the' drawing that your plant seems to use, E-18 to be 13 specific, shows'it in the graphical form of an "and" gate l with a one cut of two written into this box.
MR. JAIN: It is not an "and" gate that is 16
- shown. It is just a box that is shown.
1 MR. BEARB:- Oh, just a box.
. MR. JAIN: It is not an "and" gate that is shown.
i 19
. MR. BEARD: Maybe for clarity's sake it would i
20 be better to.just show that as an "or" gate.
21 MR. JAIN: Yes, that would be better.
22 MR. BEARD: Okay. I think for this being a 23 tutorial ~ type system description, I think we can take that
' 24 u,u %,, w, liberty for the sake of clarity.
25 MR.-JAIN: Okay. Going towards the right here, i
18 t-Sim'2-2
~
1 I couldn't(rea'd the word. ;I presume it is manual actuation.
2 MR. BEARD: :Up here at the top?
o 3 MR. JAIN: Yes.
4 MR. BEARD: There are three of them I guess, or 5 four of.them.that come in from the top.
The first one was
-6 intended to be manual actuation.
7 MR. JAIN: Well you look at E-18, I presume it 8 was labeled as manual actuation mainly because of the label.
9 in here called manual initiation.
10 MR. BEARD: Yes.
11 MR. JAIN: Indeed, the signal here is a reverse
- 12 differential pressure signal.
13 MR. BEARD: That manual input is a ~ reverse 14 differential?
15 MR. JAIN: In fact, really, the' signal that'goes 16 through this one out of two logic is in fact a reverse 17 differential pressure input. The manual is a supplement, if 18 you will.
19 MR. BEARD: So let me take my copy and show 20 this. This really -- is it this whole section-right here?
21' MR. JAIN: Right.
22 MR. BEARD:t All right. This really is ---
23 MR. JAIN: ----is the reverse differential l 24 Pressure.-
AceFederal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. BEARD: ' Reverse DP. i e
-4
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19-
,Sim.2-3 1 MR.'JAIN: Right. -
2 MR. BEARD: Is.this the one.that gives you the 3 feedline break protection?
4 MR. JAIN: . Correct.
5 MR. BEARD: All right. This is the feed or 6 steam minus feed or whatever.
7 MR. JAIN: Right.
- 8 MR. BEARD: Because that is the only place on 9 E-18 that I'found a manual input.
10 MR. JAIN: I frankly don't know where that is.
11 MR. BEARD: I found the diagram difficult because, 12 you know, in this event there was a situation where the 13 operator pushed some manual inputs, and I'was trying to _
ja understand just from the logics where did that signal come 15 in and therefore what did it cause to change states, et cetera, 16 and I couldn't find it.
17 MR. JAIN: Yes. If you wish, we have drawings 18 here.which show those manual actuation switches and how they 19 factor in.
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20 MR. BEARD: Why don't we go ahead and just jump 21 off, since we are on this subject, and get to that, or at
- 22 least get a copy.
23 You said you had a copy of that?
i
_24 MR. JAIN: Of the drawings?-
Ac3 Federal Reporters, Inc.
- o 25 )!R. . BEARD
- Yes. Why don't we just make a note
20 .
f k Sim 2-4 1 as to what drawing it is and make it part of the record 2 that we received whatever.it is.
4 3 MR. STALTER: E-65-B.
4 MR. JAIN:- I don't know if I have them here.
5 (Pause.)
6 Okay, E-65-B, and there are several sheets that v show several manual actuation switches.
1 8 .MR. BEARD: Manual actuation inputs.
9 MR. JAIN: Correct.
10 'MR. BEARD: Okay. Do you have a copy there that 11 we can have?
12 MR. JAIN: Yes.
6 13 MR. BEARD: Do you have one or two? I don't know I' 14 what you have got. I think the way'that we have been working 15 that two is preferable.
16 Okay. Let the record show that we received two 17 copics of this drawing E-65-B.
! 18 Enough on that subject. We will look at those 19 later.
20 MR.-JAIN: Now the same I believe should apply.
21 to this manual actuation input.
2'j MR. BEARD: At the bottom of the page on my 23 cartoon.
24 MR. JAIN: At the lower right?-
, Ace-Federal Reporters. Inc.
-4 25 MR. BEARD: ,
-Yes, because that.was developed from j i
'l
21 Sim 2-5' I the-same reasoning going back to what.we just talked about.
2 MR. JAIN: Correct.
3 MR. BEARD:- So that is the differential. And 4 since that is not relevant, I may either just ' delete it from 5 this cartoon entirely.---
6 MR. JAIN: If you wish.
7 MR. BEARR So that is the steam feed DP. Okay.
8 MR. JAIN: Now' going forward on the right, the 9 "or"' gate that follows, the first "or" gate, I didn't see 10 any input mentioned on that dot.
'll MR. BEARD: - Mine was not labeled. Do you happen 12 to know what that was?
13 MR. JAIN: Yes. It will be steam generator 14 2 (1) low pressure and not blocked.
15 MR.' BEARD: I thought that that was the third one.
16 see.a little further right where it says steam generator 17 low pressure and then:there'is a "not" gate, this one.
18 MR. JAIN: Right, and that will be steam generator 19 one low pressure and not' blocked.
20 MR. BEARD: Oh, I see. I am with you now. So 21 the one that I.have labeled as steam generator-low pressure 22 1;(2) and the other will be the other input just' upstream of 23 that. Okay. Yes, that is a' good clarification.
24 MR..JAIN: I believe-that that is all that I have Ace-Fedwal Reportws, Inc.
4' 25 on that. ,
t
22
- Sim 2-6 y MR. BEARD: So this with these corrections would 2
be reasonably accurate then?
e 3 MR. JAIN: Correct.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay. Good. That is what we want.
MR. JAIN: Next I go to the ---
5 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute. We skipped over one 6
7 other item, but before we leave this level cartoon, let's 8
turn back for a minute and show this little cartoon that 9 really is a diagram of what is inside the box that was 10 labeled steam generator level instrumentation cabinet. I y don't know that we have discussed that.
- 12 MR. JAIN: We didn't discuss that.
13 MR. BEARD: Could we just touch on that before 34 we get away from the level side of the system?
i MR. JAIN: Okay. Ken, would you like to
) 15 16 laborate?
- j7 MR. YARGER Well, how accurate do you want to 18 be?
j9 MR. BEARD: I-want to show the kind of level of q.
20 detail that'is depicted here. In other words, I want to 21 show- --~I would like to convey that it is a current loop 22 type of trancmitter out there some place, there is a power 23 supply, there is a test operate input and then I go into 24 s me module that contains amplifiers and bistables.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. YARGER: All right. To make it more a
, 23 t
Sim 2-7' -1 representative, you should probably put a resistor showing h' 2 that there bistables are voltaged by curved bistables.
3 MR. STALTER: And there is a dropping resistor
- 4 on the input to the -- -
5 MR. BEARD: Yes. It was associated actually 6 on the drawing with the operate test switch where it is 7 physically shown on the schmatic.
- 8 MR. YARGERr Right.
9 MR. BEARD: oSo how about if I just put it -- I l 10 guess should it be downstream of that switch? Do you remember, ,
11 Ken?
1 12 MR. YARGER: Downstream of that switch so that 13 when you throw it into test you can still use the same 14 resistor.
15 MR. BEARD: Fine. I will make that correction.
16 That is a good one. Thank you. I think, except for a few 17 electrical engineers, nobody would have noticed that, but 18 I would like to be accurate.
19 MR. JAIN: The other possible thing would be 20 that the bistables, the low and the high bistables are 21 a composite unit.
22 MR. BEARD: That is correct., so this really is 23 a low /high dual bistable.
1 24 MR. JAIN: Right. <
Ace-Federol Reporters, Inc.
4 25 MR. BEARD:- Let me ask you, while we are on this
- ---__-2. ._ _ . . - - - . . . - . . . - . . . . - - _ - _ _ . - - _ . - . . - _ - - - - . - -
a 24
-Sim 2-8 1 subject -- excuse me, I don't want to interrupt you any more 2 than necessary. Would that be all-the changes you have got?
+' 3 MR. JAIN: Yes, all the ---
.4 MR. YARGER: Do you want to reflect your high 5 trip bistable.as the contact output from high and low or in
.6 series of one another.
.7 MR. BEARD: Oh, they are?
8 MR. YARGER: Yes, sir.
9 MR. BEARD: In that-case, I do want to show it.
10 Earlier that was not the case,-and I.probably would have 11 neglected to show it since it'may not be relevant to the 12 event. In other words, I was trying-to show just.a cartoon 13 related to how the low steam generator level causes the 14 -reactor control system to respond. But if they are~in series, 15 I guess -- okay.
16 And I take it that it is in the shelf position 17 .de-energized?
18 MR. YARGER: Correct.
19 MR. BEARD: Both of those contacts would be 20 normally open for high a.nd low bistables?-
21 MR. YARCER: In the-shelf condition, they are 22 normally closed.
23 - MR. BEARD: Normally closed.
24 MR. - YARGER:- They are fail safe relay.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
- 25 MR. BEARD: I thought that the plant normal. inputs-
+ 1 4- r v ., f
25 Sim 2-9 i to the SFRCS were closed contacts and on trip they opened.
2 MR. YARGER: I am sorry. That is right. I was 3 thinking of something else.
4 MR. BEARDF Okay. Juul if these are fail-safe, 5 then they would have to be normally open contacts.
6 MR. YARGER: Right.
7 MR. STALTER: They have got to be open.
.. 8 MR. BEARD: If they are in series they had better.
9 I guess if you wanted to closed ones, like on enunciators they 10 are normally the other way, you know, so-you put them in 11 Parallel for multiple inputs. So one is high and one is low.
12 Damn, I don't remember it that way..
13 MR. JAIN: Do we have drawings?
14 MR. YARGERn For what?
15 MR. BEARD: Ken, let me ask you. I didn't bring 16 my copy of that particular drawing in with me this morning.
17 It is back at the motel. My' memory is -- and I don't like 18 to do this in a transcribed meeting, but I think it is 19 important to do it.
~
20 (Mr. Beard goes to the blackboard and proceeds 21 .to draw a diagram.)
l 22 What I am trying to do is redraw some of this, 23 and I have gotten up to.the resistor that completes the 24 current. loop.- Now my understanding of the way that schematic I Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. '
_4 25 is,.if I'can remember it'righg, it looks like this.
- A
4 26 f
2-10 i I go into a box that I will refer to loosely 2 as the'high bistable, and sitting over on-the cartoon is a .
3 low bistable,-and if I remember right, the way it is wired 4 is I have one input straight into the high level bistable, and ,
.j 5 then wired in parallel with that I go over and drive a 6 low-level bistable.
7 Then over on the right side of the drawings', if 8 I remember it right, I have got some configurations that show 9 terminal strips coming out and it typically would have, if 10 I remember this right, about four contacts on each one of 11 'them.
12 And, if I remember right, these are labeled like 13 this is the low output and this is the high output, and then 14 you have like enunciator outputs and computer outputs and 15 other kinds of things.
16 But if I-remember right, these on the drawing
- 17. were shown separately. Now it may be that downstream of-that 18 particular cabinet they are joined and then put in series, 19 or it may be that I am not remembering it.right. That is
~
20 why I wondered.
21 MR. YARGER: They are a series in the-steam i
i 22 generator-level cabinets, if I remember. correctly.
l l 23 MR. BEARD:' Oka(.
24 MR. STALTER: But..the drawing you are looking at hFederal Reporters, Inc.
4 25 is the bistable output,..right?l
[
w-
~~
27
. BEARD: No. I have got two drawings. 1 Sim.2-ll 1
~
2 have gpt one of the cabinet, and the one of the cabinet is
~
the one that looks like'.a bridge, table. You know, it has 3
4 this kind of stuff. Do you remember what I am talking about, 5
Ken? l 6 MR. YARGER: Yes.
7 MR. BEARD: With all the connections on each 8 of the bistables?
9 MR. YARGER: , Yes ,: sir.
~
10 MR. BEARD: 'Okay. And you have that garbage all 11 over the place.
12 Then the output'from that, which happened to be, 13 if I remember right, terminal number script little "X" and
' ~
34 script'"Z" or something.
15 MR. YARGER: Small "z".
16 . MR.' BEARD: Small "z". Those were the-low-level.
37 outputs, and I was thinking that they were wired straight to 18 terminals, and the h'igh and. low, I didn't remember it as being 19 a series.-
20 MR. YARGER: Yes, sir, they are.
.23 MR. BEARD: Okay, fine. Let's'just let--it go 22 ifithat is the way it'is, and I will change the cartoon 23 accordingly.
24 MR. STALTER: ,Do you think it is a question of AoFWwol R9erters, lac .
.- 25 where.they are put in series before they get to this terminal
.[
r +
v, <
l=
28 Sim2-12 1 strip;or after?
2 MR. BEARD: The only question I-had is -- and 3 this is a level of detail we probably shouldn't even be into, 4 but if they are wired in series within that domain that we 5 are referring to, the steam generator level instrument cabinets, 6 ILwould like-to show them in series on this particular page 7 we are looking at at the moment.
. 8 If they, on the other hand, are wired.in series 9 outside of that cabinet, I will show it on a different page.
10 Now' electrically it.makes no difference. It 11 makes zero difference.
12 MR. YARGER:: What you are looking at is consoli-13 dated control storing. In order to see the series, you know, 14 thatLeontact would be on the field side and-the connection in 15 the background.
end.Sim 16 "
Joe fols 17 18 19 20 21
.22 23 24 AOFederal Reporters, Inc.
s 25
~ -
'3-1-Joe Wal 29' 1 MR. BEARD: In other words you are saying if I go from here, that it is probably going to jump
~
2 3 - between these twor r ight there, and then the outputs go out 4 like that?-
5 - MR. YARGER: Yes, sir. ,
>6 MR. BEARD: That resolves in my mind, okay, 7 why I missed it. That;makes sense.
>:- 8 So, if I wantbd to do this right, I'could 9 come up here and show another bistable, you know, and come 10 ' out with the same tfype of context, and I,think' what I will 11
' do' is try to show that field wiring by' . putting a jumper 12
, right on this page, and then' you show :the two lines going 13 out.
14 That ought to be clear to everybody, as well 15 as accurate.
16 Okay. What I intend to do, Larry, is this:
17 I will;try to reproduce what we had on the chalk board.
18 In other words, these two bistable units, you know, 6-N,
-19 889, or whatever the hell the number was, I believe have
- 33 parallel-inputs -- have separate outputs, and then by virture 21 of the jumper at the output terminals, then the outputs are 22 put in series as far as any downstream electrical contentions 23 go.
24 MR. YARGCR: Yes, sir.
Acc> Federal Reporters, Inc.
- e. 25 MR. BEARD: So, this is something like this
3-2-Joe Wal' 30 1 is what I.would propose.
-2 MR. YARGER: Do you want to also show the .
. '3 indicator on - there as being only off the low level bistable?
, 4 MR. BEARD: The indicator being only off the f
5 low level bistable.
6 MR. STALTER: , Andlog output.
i
~7 MR. BEARD: Well', ' I guess right now, just by
. =. 8 default, I did show it that way, because there is. an innut 9 marked meter adjust, and maybe I can come off with that 10 with something that' just says meter, you~ kriow, .
s
[ 11 Is that it?
4 +
12 MR. JAIN:
Yes.
13 MR. BEARD: You are happy with this now? With 14 those changes, is that correct?
] 15 MR. YARGER: That is correct.
16 MR. BEARD: Good. Okay. The next one we are 17 going to be getting into is the more interesting one, I think, l
t.
18 which is the low pressure thing for which I.had drawn-up two l
- 19 cartoons, and that is a fairly complicated one.
, 20 Would this be an appropriate time. to take like 21 - a two minute -- five minute recess. !
i l 22 I don't want to do it in the middle of a i
23 discussion. I can see ' that this next -discussion goes on for
(
- l 24 half an' hour, maybe,.you know.
hFederal Reporters, Inc 25 MR. JAIN: Okay.
3-3-Joe Wal 31 1 MR. BEARD: If that suits you, why don't we take 2 about a two minute recess.
3 (Short recess taken.)
4 MR. BEARD: Why don' t we continue then af ter 5 that little recess, and Sushil, did you want to make a comment 6 with regard to this matrix that we talked about earlier?
7 MR. JAIN: Okay. The matrix about the SFRCS
. 8 actuated equipment, SP System procedure 1105.16 --
9 MR. BEARD: That .11, is that the Rev number?
10 MR. JAIN: Yes. .11 is the Rev. number. And 11 this essentially outlines all the equipment that is actuated 12 by the SFRCS under a different parameters.
13 MR. BEARD: For the record, could you identify --
14 is that listed as an enclosure, or a figure number, or a table 15 number, or something so that we can refer to it?
16 MR. JAIN: It is listed as Enclosure 2 to that 17 SP.
18 MR. BEARD: Okay. So, this is the matrix that 19 you would refer me to?
20 MR. JAIN: Correct.
21 MR. BEARD: And I think you said earlier that 22 for clarity purposes you would get a copy later?
23 MR. JAIN: Yes.
24 MR. BEARD:
AoFederal Reporters, Inc.
Okay, thank you. While we are on that 25 subject, let me bring up another related matter, and that is j
l O
a i
1
{J-4-Joe Wal 3 32 j 1 that on the actuation tables -that we passed out the other 2 morning, that you had these comments on.
3 MR. JAIN: Right.
4 MR. BEARD: There were a number of types of l I
5 comments , and one, of course, was obviously some typo 1 6 corrections . A number of additions and a couple of deletions.
7 MR. JAIN: Righ t .
. 8 MR. BEARD: I think it is important to notice --
9 because I am a little disturbed by it, is that neglecting 10 the typos for a minute, okay, the source that that table was 11 typed from -- I could be wrong, but where I got that source 12 is the Plant Emergency Procedures.
13 MR. JAIN: I believe I have seen dhat similar 14 table in the ATOG procedure.
15 MR. BEARD: Now, it is one thing to say that I 16 had the wrong information for underst a n ding it for the purpose 17 of writing a system-description.
18 It is a dif ferent matter to say that the 19 emergency procedures that the operators might use in control 20 room late on Sunday night, or early hours, have the wrong 21 list also.
22 That is a whole different ball game.
23 MR. JAIN: I would not like to comment on that.
24 I had thought that the ATOG Emergency Procedure Table was Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 complete.
L
, _ . .. . .. . . ~ ._. _ .- - . __ .
,;3-5-Joe.Wal 33 1 ~ MR. BEARD: Well, what I am trying to convey 2 .is I -believe that that is the list that this was typed from, 3 so that obviously there- can be errors of the typo-type 4 nature, .but a significant number of additions and a few 5 deletions'seems to suggest~ rather strongly that that list 4
l _- 6 ought to be re-looked at for completeness or accuracy, or 7 whateve r. ,
i 1
. 8 I don' t know what we would do with - that other i o .
9 .than, you know,: we are both making, notes that..that is the i
10 case. What was that,'EP-1202 point something or --
} '
1 , -
l 11 MR. JAIN: 1202:01'.
- l k
- , -12 MR. BEARD
- . 1202.01, okay. All right. With 13 those few items -- do we have any other items before we took 14 the break that we needed to wrap up on before we go forward? !
l, 15 You were going to make some copies of that 16 particular one that is marked up, we are going to.make that.
- 17 at the end, when we get through. Are there any drawings? '
i 18 I guess not. Okay. So, we are ready to go into 1
- 19 this cartoon that deals with the low pressure side of the [~
20 steam feed rupture control system, and I want to call to your '
21 attention, and you have probably already noticed it, that I !
i j 22 chose to draw the cartoon for Actuation Channel No. 2, and
! 23 the Logic Channel tio. 2 that is within that actuation channel.
24 AoFederol Reporters, Inc.
And the reason for it is because I understand 25 that' is one of the inputs that the inadvertent actuation would f
3 T
L3-6-Joe Wal 34 1 have caused to operate. Okay?
2 MR. JAIN: I did not have any significant
. 3 corrections to the Logic diagram drawn here except for some 4 clarifications which may be because I couldn' t see very well 5 as to what they were.
6 MR. BEARD: Is my handwriting that bad? Oh, yeah.
7 If you are talking about like those outputs where it says
. ~8 Number 2 not low, Number 1 low, Number 2 not low, Number 1 9 low, Number 2 low, Number 1 not low.
10 MR. JAIN: So, I think -- well, the first one is 11 2, the second one is 1.
12 MR. BEARD: Let me start up at the top. So that 13 the record is clear, the very top line coming out of the 1 out 14 of 4 gate, is either steam generator low pressure, and that 15 causes 4, the system output, to light up.
16 MR. JAIN: Correct.
17 MR. BEARD: The next one down says steam generator 18 No. 2, low pressure. That is the one apparently that would trip 19 on the initial depressurization of steam line break upstream 20 of the MSIVs.
21 All right. The next one down, I believe, is 22 the combinational output, which is No. 2, not low pressure, 23 but -- or and -- Number 1, with low pressure.
24 MR. JAIN: Correct.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. BEARD: The next one would be No. 2 not low,
. -.- - - . .. . . - . - .- . .. = _- _ . . .
1 ..
3-7-Joe Wal. ~
35 4
1 .No. 1, low.
i' 2 MR..JAIN: Correct.
I. '3 -
MR. BEARD: And then the last one here would 4 lbe No. 2 low, No. 1 not' low.
5 J
MR. JAIN:' Corre ct .
p .6 MR. BEARD: That would correct it.
7 MR. JAIN:' And.if.you wish -- this is No. 1
. 8 . , low. } (Pointing. ). '
9
, MR. BEARD: Down at the . bott.pm, that would be 10 e
i right. That might bo . a worthwhile ~ addition to point that
'II
.out.
3 I2 f, So, the basic logic seems to be reasonable.
13 MR. JAIN: Correct..
! I4 MR. BEARD: Okay.
15 MR. JAIM: I did want to clarify though that i -
.16 under RCS 60-B, the list of equipment in the parenthesis I7 l
i
-- the very first one is the main feed water control valve.
', 18 Nhich I think is obvious if you go through the list, but I9
{ just for clarification purposes --
i.
l 20 MR. BEARD: I think -- the main title says 21
- isolate main feedwater non-essential valves, and then 1
22 parenthentically I'have listed the main contro'l valve for 23 f No. I steam generator, and then on No. 2 steam generator
!, 24 you get the main control valve block valve, and you get the
- Aca.d. col hporwi, lac.
25
.startup control valve.
l.__-._
3-8-Joe Wal 36 1 MR. JAIN: Now I was just suggesting to add 2 MSW in front of the control. Just to highlight for the
. 3 main feed control, and then we also have the No. 2, 4 The valve number just below the No. 2 block, 5 I believe it is 779.
6 MR . BEARD : 779? l 7 MR. JAIN: Yes.
. 8 MR. BEARD : Okay. Instead of 799.
9 MR. JAIN: Correct.
10 MR. BEARD : Okay. Are there any other --
11 There are some^ interesting subtleties like you are talking 12 about Kent, that the MSIV, MS100 comes off a different 13 system output than MS 101. They don't come off the same 14 outputs for the S PARCE (Frecus ) system. One comes off 15 RCS 102, and the other one comes off RCS 602.
16 MR. JAIN: One other clarification I wanted to 17 add, if I may, was for the RCS 302 output, and in addition 18 to actuation of the MS 107, 3872, 599, and closure of 3871, 19 this output also sends an inhibit close signal to 599 or
~
20 608. In this case, it would be 599.
21 MR. BCARD: Wait a minute. Let's see how I 22 would like to word that.
23 Are you saying a close inhibit to, is that what 24 you are saying?
Ace-Federal Reporters, .nc.
25 Close inhibit to -- and where do they send it to7
3-9-Joe Wal 37 1 MR. JAIN: For Logic Channel 2, it will be AF 6, 2 -- excuse me, AF 599.
g 3 MR. BEARD: Okay. So, with that correction, 4- three types of output coming out of RCS 302? I have some 5 start signals, some stop signals, and this one we will call 6 close inhibit? !
7 MR. JAIN: Righ t .
. 8 MR. BEARD: Okay. That helps me understand that 9 valve story we were talking about the other day.
10 All right.
Il MR. JAIN: The other thing I think I failed to 12 do, and I don't know if you wish to do that, is to show the 13 low pressure lock of the high level trip.
\
14 MR. DEARD: Low pressure block of the high 15 level? ,
16 MR. JAIN: I don't know if you are interested in 17 that, but what we have is a blocking of the high icvol trip 18 once the steam generator pressure has gone down below 650.
19 The same block button that you use to block the 20 low pressure trip also blocks the high level trip.
21 MR. BEARD: Well, during the course of an event, 22 would you expect an operator to use that?
23 MR. JAIN: No.
24 MR. BEARD: Okay.
AcoFederal Reportees, Irw.
25 MR. JAIN: That block button would normally be 1
1
r-3-10 . Toe Wal 38 1 used during a control cool down.
2 MR. BEARD: Would it be used during the cool down, o 3 or when you go into something like wet layup?
4 MR. STALTER: Normal plant shutdown.
5 MR. JAIN: Normal plant shutdown when the steam 6 generator is below 650 to prevent actuation of SPARSE they 7 would block the low pressure trip, and blocning the low pressure
. 8 trip also blocks the high level trip.
9 MR. BEARD: Okay, I see what you mean. You are 10 right. You have to hit the low pressure one for the normal 11 shutdown process, but you really don't need to block the high 12 level --
13 MR. STALTER: Yes, you do, because you end up 14 refilling the steam generator to a high level.
End 3. 15 SueWal fois, 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 her.d.ral seporters, fx.
- 25 I
39
- 4-1-SueWalsh) MR. JAIN: That's down the line.
2 MR. BEARD: But that's only in wet layup that 3 you fill it up, right?
4 MR. STALTER: Yes.
5 MR. BEARD: So if you were just coming to cold 6 shutdown and plan on restarting it in a couple of days, you 7 would never need to redo that, would you?
I 8 MR. JAIN: Yes, if you don't go below 290 degrees 9 I believe. You won't have to block the high level trip but 10 you would because the low pressure block also blocks that.
11 MR. B EARD: So, what you are saying is that you 12 get the function although you may not need it?
. That's what 13 I'm trying to understand.
14 MR. JAIN: Right.
15 MR. STALTER: Right.
16 MR. BEARD: If you were to show that -- I didn't 17 review the logics to try to include that, but it might be 18 worthwhile, like you are suggesting, to cay where on this 19 cartoon does that signal come from, and then show it an an 20 arrow going of f the page, nay a block of high level trip.
21 MR. JAIN: Yeah. But I noticed that the other 22 day, and I was trying to find supporting documentn and 23 unfortunately I haven't found them yet.
24 u m.,atn.po,.n,tu.
MR. DFARD: Well, if we don't have an nany reference 25 why don't we decide we probably won't need to show that, becaun a
40
,#4-2-SueWalsh that really would not involve this event?
2 MR. JAIN: Right.
3 MR. BEARD: Good. Okay, so with those few cor-3 4 rections you are happy that this is accurate?
5 MR. JAIN: Correct.
6 MR. BEARD: All right. Now, the next tage was --
7 MR. JAIN: One clarification, if you might want
. 8 to show it to make it simple for a reader would be to combine 9 the output of these two And Gates, because 302 and 902 are 10 essentially the same functions.
jj MR. BEARD: This is correct. If you will notice --
12 MR. JAIN: I think you did somewhere also.
13 MR. BEARD: I did it some other places on the 34 level one.
15 MR. JAIN: Just below this you did that.
16 MR. BEARD: Right.
j7 MR. JAIN: 402 and 802.
jg MR. BEARD: But the difference in that if one j9 wants to consider single failures, okay, and that'n not 20 really part of this review, if you look at the way 402 and 21 802 are configured, you can say: Okay, I can wipe out both 22 f those by postulating the upstream And Gator in contrast, 23 the 302 and 902 I have to recognize there are two And caten.
24 So, unless I want to talk about some common u.- r.a.,. n.pon.,i, w.
i 25 phenomena that'n a littic better denign. That'n all.
41
- 4-3-SueWalsh1 MR. JAIN: Yeah, I agree.
2 MR. DEARD: So, I thought why not tell it the way 3 3 it is. I think that amount of detail, most readers will be 4 able to follow without getting too confused.
5 Okay. Last page finally is the one having to do 6 with the initiate bypass and block logic. And I'm not certain 7 that I'm terribly interested in it other than in the event the 8, operators did use this feature.
9 MR. JAIN: The block feature?
10 MR. DEAlkD: That's my understanding. Do you 11 remember it dif ferently, Larry?
12 MR. JAIN: lie used the manual actuation on low 13 pressure but not to my knowledge that low pressure block.
\
14 MR. DEARD: lie suro did. Well, let me say it 15 differently, okay.
16 We have been told by the people that were in the 17 control room, the operators, particularly the Assistant Shift 18 Supervisor, who I guess wan Steve Fcanol, that when the loola-19 tion valven betwoon the atoam generatorn and the aux foodwater 20 did not automatically roopen like they nhould, then they tried 21 the manual roopen and that didn't work, and then the quy run i
22 around, ho hit thin initiato bypann and block circuit, thoy 23 ntill didn't reopen.
11 0 como back and tried manual again, and 24 it ntill didn't reopon.
w r J.,a e,p.,,.ri, =.
25 At that timo, they ntarted nonding people out to work
(
4
__.______.______.__._____..____._______.______________.__.__.______.._____._.____._______.__________.__.____.___________a
42
- 4-4-SueWalsh1 on the valve. But it has been told to us repeatedly that 2
in the effort to recover from those valves that would not
. 3 reopen that this feature was used.
And that's the only reason this page is even in 5
this package.
O MR. JAIN: I just didn't know.
7 MR. BEARD: Okay. It's no big deal. Okay. Did
. 8 you have any corrections an that page?
9
. MR. JAIN: Just some clarifications. The -- in 10 tha middle of the page, the output of the two out of two 11
- gate it says pressure high.
I MR. BEARD: Yeah.
I 13 MR. JAIN: I would have thought it meant pressure low.
15 MR. BEARD: Let me explain to you how I think it 16 works.
MR. JAIN: Okay.
, MR. IICARD: Then, if I'm wrong thin point will 19 como out. My underntanding in, nuppone that. one of tho 20 various channoin has tripped that nignify low prennuro II coming in, then on the previoun pago whoro it nayn ono out 22 of four all of thone thinqn will kick of f. Okay.
23 At tho namo timo, I will provide that ano out of 24
- u. w.,. n.po,, .. k four nignal into thin pago coming in horn at the top whorn 25 it nayn f rom the one out of four low pronnure logie.
43
- 4-5-Suewalsh; I would then push a button or turn a switch or 2 whatever it is marked initiate bypass. It's over on the left, 3 that input on my carteca.
4 And then what would happen is, if the pressure 5 really has, by two separate sensors, not the one that said 6 low pressure but if two separate ones says: Wait, the pres-7 sure really is higher, at least acceptably high, then maybe 8 I would consider the first signal spurious and want to block 9 it.
10 13ut if that pressure really is high then it comes 11 to that two out of two logic, goes into an And Gate where it 12 combines with the initiate bypass circuit and goes over 13 through another gato and ends up giving you the light,that 14 says: Okay, now I've got permission to block because you've 15 got one input or more inputs that say low but I've got two 16 hard ones that say it's high or okay. So, the light comes 17 on, sayst Permission to block.
18 So, then the next thing the guy doen in having 19 roccived that light he pushon the button marked " block" and 20 then it goes thrcugh the varioun gaten hero and you and up 21 getting the light that nayn " block." That nignal han gono 22 through.
23 And then a parallot output of that in to take and 24 go back to thron placon that offect that blocking function.
A o r.a.,. s.p.,*, sae.
. 25 And that'n my undorntanding.
44
- 4-6-SueWalshi MR. JAIN: The understanding is totally correct.
2 But it was confusing to me; the high term there implied that 3 the generator pressure was actually way high up.
4 MR. BEARD: Okay.
5 MR. JAIN: The intent here was you can only block 6 a low pressure if the pressure is within 650 and 600 psi.
1 7 600 psi being the trip setpoint.
. 8 If the pressure drops below 600 you cannot 9 physically block.
10 MR. BEARD: Okay. Let me see if I can -- you are 11 saying that as you bring the plant down, is this the one you i
12l use for normal cooldown?
13 MR. JAIN: Yes.
14 MR. D EARD: Okay. An you bring the plant down, 15 if you don't block it you are going to get actuation at 6007 16 MR. STALTER: Right.
17 MR. DEARD: So around 650 --
18 MR. STALTER: You get permission to block.
0 19 MR. DEARD: Don't you have to initiate? Don't 20 you havo to punh the button to initiato bypass to got the 21 porninnion to block light?
22 MR. STALTI:R: I don't think no.
23 MR. JAIN: I don't think no.
S . t.4.,. e.p. . .. k 24 MR . Ill:ARD: All right. Lot'n lot that detail 90 for
. 25 a minuto. So, tho notpoint horn in really 6507
45
- 4-7-SueWalsh MR. JAIN: Correct.
2 MR. BEARD: Or, is it --
3 MR. JAIN: Well, the actual set -- we deal in 4
t erms of 650. The actual setpoint -- !
5 MR. BEARD:
I mean it's in that ballpark?
6 MR. JAIN: It's --
7 MR. YARGER: 612 is the trip. 658 I think is
. 8l the block permit.
9
, MR. DEARD: All right. Let's call that 660 just 10 for talking purposes. So, what this really means is not II that the pressure is abnormally high --
I2 MR. JAIN: Right.
i.
13} MR. HEARD: -- which is what I think you were I4 concerned about. But it's really that it means it is high 15 enough to block?
17 MR. DFARD: The dooflickey, and what this also 18 does for you more than that in I believe that if the pres-19 sure should have been blocked and then it returnn, I think 20 you will got an automatic unblocking?
2I MR. JAIN: Correct.
22 MR. HEARD: And that'n the na fety related anpect 23 of thin whole circuit?
24 u> rW.d sep.,, <i, M MR. JAIN: That'n truo.
25 MR. HI:ARD: In the automatic unblocking?
46
2 MR. BEARD: Right. And I think that lattle two
. 3 out of two box is where you get all of that?
4 MR. JAIN: Correct.
5 MR. BEARD: And --
6 MR. YARGER: It only takes -- you've got to have both of them to block but only one to release the 7
. 8 block.
9 MR. BEARD: That's what I mean. So that if you --
10 having been blocked and for some reason, either pressure 11 channel senses you are above 660 then you will get automatic 12 clearing of that block or auto-unblocking is another way to 13 say the same thing.
14 MR. YARGER: You are only showing one channel, 15 right?
l 16 MR. BEARD: Yeah. This is logic channel 2.
17 Now, what happens -- how they got combined downstream may be 18 a different story, but as far as this logic channel goes --
19 MR. YARGER: I think maybe we are saying the 20 same thing. We've got to receive. You have both prourure 21 switchen below 650 to give you a block permissive. It 22 only takes --
23 MR. DEARD: It'n below?
24 MR. YARGER: Well, 650.
A c ted.,et a , porters, let 25 MR. HEARD: I know, but I was thinking it was on
47
- 4-9-SueWalsN the high side. Really, what you want to say is this two out 2 of two block means that there is less than 650, whatever the
- 3 number is that you want to use, but you get an output of 4 that two out of two box when both are low.
5 All right.
d 6 Mn. YARGER: Both --
7 MR. BEARD: So, in your sense you are absolutely
. 8 correct. This really, to be more precise, should say pres-9 sure is low and by that, both below 650.
10 MR. JAIN: Correct.
11 MR. BEARD: Okay. It's not high. All right.
12 Okay. Now, this particular part of the E-18 drawing in 13 very complicated in the sense that whoever layed it out on 14 the page did not do anybody any favors. I mean, it's hard 15 to follow through.
16 MR. JAIN: It is.
17 MR. DEARD: And that's one reason why I want to
- 18 try to see if I could trace it through and get all the 19 blocks in there and get them in the right places and then i .
20 figuro out, once it's layed out on the paper decent, how 21 the thing really workn.
22 MR.JAIN: In fact, when I showed thin to comebody 23 the pornon said this in much botter than what wo have, tho 24 drawing.
A,. r.d.e.s e p ,,.n, :=
i . 25 MR. Ill:AllD It'n cany for mo to underntand. I had
48
- 4-10-SueWalsh a hell of a time with that thing that is on the E-18. .And 2 what this does for you, among other things, is separates it 3 out and by -- I deliberately layed it out on the page, so 4 that the order in which things occur is in the way people 5 normally read in the United States of America; that is, they 6 start at the top and go to the bottom, not right to left and 7 up and down, things like that.
. 8 So that for me that's the only way that I would ever 9 draw it, you know. But, at any rate, with those corrections --
10 MR. JAIN: One more clarifying thing.
11 MR. BEARD: Good.
12 MR. JAIN: Decause these pressure switches relate 13 to channel 2, I think we should mention in the title of this I
! 14 this is logic channel 2.
15 MR. DEARD: Okay. Well, this is intended to be a 16 continuation of the previous drawing.
, 17 MR. JAIN: As long as that's cicar.
18 MR. DEARD: Maybe we should add that junt to 19 make sure that that's cicar to everybody. Okay.
20 Anything cise?
21 MR. JAIN: No.
22 MR. DEARD: Okay. Now, if you will -- nome time 23 when we take a break if you will makt> a Xerox of yourn no 24 that I will havo all of thone notun on it, I will be just I m:> w.e n.po,,,,,, :=.
, 25 tickled pink.
49
- 4-ll-SueWalqh MR. JAIN: Yeah. I was going to have someone 2 copy these.
. 3 MR. BEARD: Yeah, Just walk out if you are going 4 to have somebody do that.
5 (Pause.)
6 Okay. Are you ready? Let me ask you, Sushil, are I l
7 we now at the point where we have covered the basic logics
. 8 and that item is finished, so that now we should go to the 9 actuated equipment discussion?
10 MR. JAIN: Yes. As you -- I believe yesterday 11 that you wanted to look at the CCC logic drawings.
12 MR. BEARD: Yes.
13 MR. JAIN: Do you have copics of that?
14 MR. DEARD: I don't want to spend a great deal of 15 l time here in this meeting with a lot of peopic, but I would 16 just like to understand what drawings we are talking about so 17 that later I will be abic to follow through them, if that 18 could be done.
19 MR. STALTER: I believe we gave you copien of 20 these when we went to Dothesda. They are included in that 21 roll of drawings that we delivered there.
22 MR. DEARD: Let me sec. Let me just read theno 23 things off no that we can renolve that problem. It nayu 24 Consolidated Controlu Drawing. 8, an in Sierra, 6, Nancy, Ao w,1 a.p.<, =.
, 25 295. A couple of pagen of that. Thin looks like a necond
50
- 4-12-SueWalst copy of the same drawing. All right. Here is an S-9-N27.
2 It says Sheet 2 of 2 and 1 of 2. There is one copy of that.
, 3 And here looks like a second copy of that.
4 At any rate, as I s'oe.it,-you have given me two 5 copies of two drawings.
6 MR. STALTER:- Uh-huh.
7 MR. BEARD: And one is a logic diagram it appears
. 8 from the look-see at it, and the other one is more-of' tables 1
9 and numbers, although Page 1 of that has a lot of inter-e i 10 connections on it.
(
I 3 11 Yeah. Now, what would you call this . type of
}
- 12 drawing?
h l 13 MR. YARGER: Signal flow diagram.
l 14 MR. BEARD: Okay. Signal flow. This is not what
! 15 you call a connecting diagram or something of that nature?
16 (Mr. Yarger nodded in the negative.)
1 17 A wiring diagram, I guess, is the term-I was
! 18 thinking of.
i
- 19 MR. STALTER
- One thing is that we have not up a 20 .little demonstration board where we can change the inputs l
-t 21 and Icok at the outputs.
l 22 MR. BEARD: You mean, like a model?
23 MR. STALTER: Yeah.
I 24 MR. JAIN: A' test model.
! Ace r dwel w i, lac.
l , 25 MR. STALTER: We actually flip the input switches t
I i
4
_ _ _ _ - _ _ - - . ~ . . . , , . . . _ - - -_
?
51
}#4-13-SueWalsh and'you can look at what the outputs are, and it demonstrates
!' 2 readily what happens on this drawing, or what this drawing i
i - L3 is doing for.you, if you are interested in looking at.
- j. 4 MR. BEARD: I think it's nice that you have a
'I 5 system, but unfortunately with the press of business I'm 6 probably not going' to be able to take advantage of seeing i
! 7 it this trip. ;
i - 8 Okay. Now, Kent, could you.tell me just in a !
4 9 few sentences, how would you characterize these drawings?
l 10 One is obviously -- the one I was trying to call a wiring -
I 11 diagram, you call signal flow.
!, 12 Ilow would you characterize the other one? Just :
a l 13 the actual detail logic components'that implemented the !
4 .
14 E-18 drawing?
2 ;
15 MR. YARGER: That would be correct. >-
i 16 MR. BEARD: I don't want to put words in your I'
17 mouth. Don't misunderstand'me.
I i
1 18 MR. YARGER: That's the' logic drawing that the 19 E-18 is representative of.
20 MR. BEARD: Okay. Just out of curiosity, do you i
! 21 know which drawing originally way back when came first? l 22 MR. JAIN ' I.think the E-18 drawing came first.
?
23 MR. BEARD: Okay. So there was a general logic l 24 in terms of Or Gates and And Gates and one out of fours and
. Ac.1dedagenwi, W. ,
l .: 25 things of that nature. And from that, someone developed 1 ,
l
-________.____-.m_____._m_.__.._.__m___
1 52
- 4-14-Suewalsh .this detailed design. logic?
2 MR. JAIN: Right.
, 3 MR. STALTER: I'm guessing, but I would assume d' that this is part of the big package _that went out,_the E-18 5 was then,and the' logic drawings:~were developed by CCC to 6 implement this.
7 _MR. BEARD: Okay.
. 8 MR. STALTER: And they.were bound together.
END #14 9 Sim*ons flws 10 11
.12 13 14 15 16 17 e
18 19 go . - .
21 ,
22 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
l . 25 1
5 3
.. .,- .- .n- . . _ . . . - . - , -
,. , , ~ . .
. . 53.
MR. BEARD: Does he know we have had a lot of fSim5-1 1 2 trouble over the years on logic diagrams versus schematics 4
s
!- 3 of-real design. drawings of which came first?
~
4 MR. STALTER: Yes. Sometimes if a system exists 5 ahead of time, you will make a logic diagram.
6 EMR. BEARDF I think some of the original
- 7 designs at some plants never had logic diagrams.. They went
. 8 from.I think an idea straight to the detailed design and
! 9 then later there was a desire to have logics. l f t I 10 MR. STALTER: And then you develop them
= v 11 backwards.
l I 12 MR. BEARD: And sometimes they' agree with the 4
i-drawings and sometimes t hoy don't, you know.
) 13 14 All right. This should be very helpful.
l 15 Remember, we had this discussion when we talked i
l 16 before, Ken, about there were apparently some details, and j- 17 I don't remember now what they were, but there were some l
j 18 details that were not obvious from the E-18 logic drawing l 1
19 that may be more obvious on this logic diagram from CCC.
20 Do you remember any of those that we brought' f
l 21 up that maybe we need to discuss rather than'just trying
- 22 to review it at night?. f
?
l 23 MR. YARGER: Well,.one of them wasJin reference i j . 24 to.599608. ,
j Ace-Federof floporters, Inc.
25 MR. JAIN: . What this logic module wil1~show l.
I
+
54 Sim-5-2' .I you is just one logic module, you know, and it will not :
2 show.the actual functioning of contacts or something in
. 3 - the other channel.
4 MR. BEARD: ~But this signal flow diagram-would 5 show the inputs.and outputs to the logic board, right?
i 6 MR. YARGER : The signal flow diagram shows you 7 from input to outputs or I think it is channels one_and
- 8 three? -
9 MR. BEARD: I didn't even look to see which one 10 it is. Wait a minute. I was reading from S-9 and 27, the
' II signal flow diagram. Note No. 1.-says "This drawing-i I2 illustrates cabinet No. 1, 1/3 and A-1/A-2. Cabinet No. 2 1
13 is 2/4 and B-1 and B-2."
Id i So apparently this is' typical of actuation j.
j 15 channel 1.
I0 MR. YARGER: That is correct.
17 MR. BEARB: 1 Oh, I know what-it,was. The other l
18 day we were' talking aboutLthe outputs of the-logic. diagram 19 E-18, that. notation that says " System Outputs" and then-
- 20 within:the block it will say RCS-602, for example. -And-i
-21 we were discussing that maybe.602'doesn't represent a -
22 discrete relay'and it'is symbolic to represent something 23 else maybe,'or it is a famil'y of relays. I think that is-24 the area where'this came up, didn't it?
i- . Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
j - 2.5 j T MR. YAR'GER: I~think like RCS-602 is Bechtel's-f-
9 U. -
g7 p. -t 7 V' *' 'W' ~ ~ " ' " ' *
~
s e 55 Sim 5-3 1 representation of the relay, and our representation would 2 be-K-602.
. 3 MR. BEARD: Okay. So where it says 602, does 4
~
'that represent a single relay or a family of relays, like
{ 5 602-A, B,-C, D, and E?
I 6 MR. YARGER: I couldn't tell you that. I don't
.7 know how Bechtel does theirs.
- .8 . MR. BEARD: Because the reason I am curious is j 1
9 because some-of these tables that I have seen of actuated 10 equipment,-for example, the.E-19 I believe_is the drawing i
~
11 that lists the actuated equipment will say that for' valve 12 599 it is actuated by RCS-602-F, and I just make that example
- 13 up.
~ 14 MR. YARGER: That would be the residual relay 15 designation.
16 MR. BEARB :' Is the "F" a relay-or a contact?
' ~
17 MR. YARGER: It_is a relay.
f 18 MR. BEARD: So that subsequential letter is 19 a whole relay and not a contact?
20 ' MR. YARGERP That is right.
2I 'MR.'JAIN: So what we are saying then is that 22 'the'600 output could drive a whole set of relays, A, B, C,
- 23 D,-EIand~F in each channel.- ;
24 MR. BEARD: -Right.
~
Ace-Federol Reporters, Inc. '
. 25 - MR..YARGER:' But yourdon't say tit.is a 600. output, 4
,+. -s,[' , y , ,- - J-,, - ,- -+y re,-- - , = , . , , , , - c p.,,~. y g - ,,--e,
. _ . . _ _ ._.._ . . . _= . - . _ . . . _ _- _
56 Sim 5-4 MR. BEARBr If.tl. lobk:.on E' -
18'ahd it says' j
RCS-602, I should interpret that -- nr I am asking -- I
, 2 ;
1 should interpret that as being all the 602 relays A, B,C,
. .3 ,
-4 D and E or'however-many it is,,would be actuated where it.says 602?
5 MR. YARGE's R Not necessarily. Do you have 6
i sheet 2 of.that drawing?
7 MR. BEARD: Sheet 2, yes.
.. 8
- 9 (Pause.)
10 MR. YARGER: Underneath the DCM.
j- jj MR. BEARD: Yes.
t MR. YARGERP Starting at the top,-this 101-A ---
$ 12 j 13 MR. BEARBr You are in this middle: column here?
I j4 MR. YARGER: Yes, MR. BEARD: You have got a table with flag f 15 16 number channel one, two, three and four.
i i.
] j7 MR. YARGER: Right.. Those are the actual i-18 relay designations that Toledo Edison uses.-
l
{ 19 MR. BEARDi Which is~the E-18 nomenclature and-20 -which is the actual field installation number?
l . 21 MR. JAIN: What Kent is saying is that the i
22 600 output on the E-18 would be these, like 601-A and -
a 601-B and 601-C, D, E and F and then 602 and 603 and 604.
23 l
24 ' -.- MR.. BEARD: Let me!see if I,can say it a z Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. ~
. 25 different'way and see if'I understand this;-
3 A-g-. p- 9=g--w. =Jyyn~=-49-+ w- +y g -tye-y+ M h Mw.- 9y,-*7n- g- reyc ,ey mw e,p y w-. wg g.wg*wg--1 e&MT wy.-y psi.t- ,
y-m.-.rpy g y m ee e e- g yq-P+Ww 4 ter "w wy--,y-me -gy -
-57 If I look down here under the column marked
~
1 2 " Channel 1" and I come to a thing that says 601-A, all right,
. 3 'and then if I go to the left to the column marked " Flag" 4 it says 116. Now does that mean that 601-A on-E-18 5 corresponds to the relay, and if I .cg> to the rack it is
~
6 marked No. 116?
7 MR. YARGERP No.
- 8 MR. BEARD: I guess I still don' t. understand 9 it. I am-sorry.
10 MR. YARGER: The flag, all right, is the line 11 number.
12 MR. BEARD: Just for the purposes of the tables?
13 MR. YARGER: Right.
14 MR. BEARD: Oh,'okay.
15 MR. YARGER: The' Channel-1, those relays say 16 601-A. That is PECO's relay designation- ---
17 MR. BEARDr- Right.
18 MR. YARGER: --- and you look over_on the 19 outputs relay column and you will see K-13-1.
20 MR. BEARD: .Yes.
21 MR. YARGER: That.is consolidated controls 22 _ designation for the 601-A relay.
23 MR. BEARDF Okay.- Lot me see if.I can mark a
24 this up.so,.t' hat'I will be-able to follow this'Jat least Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
. 25 an hour after we leave here.
t 58
.Sim.5-6 .1 Let me just take, .for example the one you.
~
2 -mentioned, 601. At Flag No. Il6,-601-A--- and correct
.. 3 me if I.say this wrong now -- if I would use that example 4 and now mark'it, what'I think you said, at the item number 5 in the. table which is Flag 116, there is 601-A.
6 MR. YARGER: Correct.
7 MR. BEARD: And you are saying that is whose 4
. 8 designation?
9 MR. YARGER: TECO's designation, Toledo 10 Edison's.
1
- 11 MR. BEARD: Okay. And does that-also corres-
, 12 pond to the E-18 type of numbering system?
- 13 MR. YARGER:r Yes, i
14 M R' . JAIN: Yes. ,
i 15 MR. BEARD:' Okay. So that is the company 16 and E-18, those two agree? ,
17 'MR. YARGER:~ Right.
i .
l 18 MR. BEARD: Okay,.got it. Now if I continue 19 along in that same row, I'get over here to where it l
l 20 says . output signal ' rela'ys , I K-13-1, for example. '
l l
21 MR. YARGER: Correct.
.22 MR. BEARD:- And.you are saying that that 23 is the nomenclature for the CCC drawings?
24 MR.'YARGER: That is correct.
' ' keFedwal Ryahrs, lac )
- i. . 25 MR. BEARD: Well, I am glad to see that there l
l L
11 59 Sim 5-7 is a cross reference. I really am.
- MR. YARGER: And you will see like 61-A, B and 2
3 3 l
MR. BEARD: Yes.
4 MR. YARGER: All right. They all come off the
! relay driver board and blockctoithe. slot 4.
6 MR. BEARD: Wait a minute. Block to slot 4 7
1
- 9
- 8 MR. YARGER: Yes.
9
)
MR. BEARD: Okay. This is the relay driver board?
10 gj MR. YARGER: That is the relay driver, yes.
MR. STALTER:' But all of that is driven by 601 12 1 gi , isn't it? I don't understand the 601 logic. What 13 f- j4 I am saying is that if-601 actuates over here, it is all.the 601 relays, right?.
15 MR. JAIN: This one here would drive several ---
16 j7 MR. BEARD: Why don't we have the record show
- that we will take a brief pause.
18 i 1
l j9 . (Pause while the parties hold- a discussion
> ~~ among themselves.) -
20 MR. BEARD: . Let's go-back on the record.
. 21
~
Why don't we do this.
22 _
- Kent, could you summarize the result of the 23
! .1
~
24 discussions that you folks have had during that brief pause Ace-Fedorol Reporters, Inc.
. 2.5 and tell me how I should interpret this table on this
. . - , . , _ . . . , - - , ,. - . - , ..--..m..-. ., . . - _ - . - . , . - . , . . _ , , , _ . - , - - - - - - . _ , - - - . . . . - - . .--,.,-s
60 5 l1 table on this drawing S-9N27, page 2? I We made the determination that on
~
2 MR. YARGER: ]
l
, 3 a given input signal that would control the 601 relays, that
-4 it would control all of the 600 series relays within that 5 given channel.
6 MR. JAIN: .In other words, the 600 output'on 7 E-18 would drive all of the relay driver boards on the
. 8 601 in that channel.
9 MR. YARGER:= That is right.
10 MR. BEARD: Let me see if I can say that. On 11 .E-18 where they reference something called system output 12 RCS-601 ---
13 (Mr. Rossi asked Mr. Beard if he could take 14 a short braak.)
15 MR. BEARD: .Yes. Give me a second.
16 Where drawing E-18 has an output called RCS-601, I
t 17 .and I understand RCS stands for rupture control syst.pm 18 anyway. All it is is the output-of the SFRCS. That 19 conceptually could be viewed =as,-- that output is made up 20 ofwhateverrelaydriversboa(ds'arenecessarytodrive 21 a family of relays, 601'A, B, C, D through whatever is 22 appropriate. Is that a fair statement?
23 MR. YARGER: Yes,. sir.- )
24 MR BEARD: =Very good.
heFederal Reporters, Inc. ,
. 25 Now the only remaining question is over on the
. __ . . __ 1 .. .. . . _ _ . - . . . _ - _ _ . _ .__ . _ - - _ . _. _ _ _ _ . .
61 r
fLSim5-9 1 right side of that table where it says output signal relays,
]
2 and you said these were.the consolidated nomenclature
] 4. 3 system?
- 4 MR. YARGER
- Yes, sir.
1 I 5 MR. BEARD: Does that mean that if I go to 6 another drawing, a consolidated drawing, and it says_ relay 1
7 K-13-1, that if I then go to the plant and look for relay 1
. 8 K-13-1, I really should want to look for one that has a 4
9 label that says K-601-A?
j 10 MR. YARGER: No, sir. In the SFRCS cabinet j itself they will be labeled with Consolidated Control's 11' 12 numbers on the relay panel. The relay status lights will
-13 carry Toledo Edison's relay designations.
14 MR. BEARD: - Okay. So if it.is within the 15 physical walls of the cabinet, like if I look for a number 16 stenciled on a-chassis some place for a relay, I would find 17 written there K-13-17
! 18 MR. YARGER: That-is right.
1 19 MR. BEARD :- But'the associated-indicator light
,' 20 on the outside of the cabinet, the outside~ surface of 1
~
21 : the cabinet would be labeled K-601-A?
l .
22 LMR."YARGERp Yes,' sir, i ~
MR. BEARD: So all'this table really does is
[
23 i .
! 24 it tells us-what driver boards arefinvolved and the two
. AceFederol Reporters, Inc.
i . 25 different nomenclature systems for one varmit/ like one I
L
. . . ~ . - - - _ .- ~ . . . . . . _ ~ - . - - - - _ _ . .. . .,
+
62 i.
Sim 5-10 1 relay. ;
2 MR. YARGER: Yes,' sir.
3 MR. BEARD: .Very good. Okay. With that, I
(
4 think I will'be able to figure'this thing out back at the .
l 5 ranch tonight.
6 Is there anything else that you think we should 7 talk about?
. 8 MR. JAIN: Is there a way to tell, Kent, how 9 these 13's and 12's go to like this logic type -- this
! 10 CCC logic module? ,
11 MR. STALTER: If you look at the second page 12 of it, I-think it tells you.
2 13 MR. YARGER: These output numbers here?
14 MR. JAIN: Do these numbers correspond to the 15 relays?
! 1 J
l 16 MR. YARGER: No. These output numbers follow 17 here.
18 MR. STALTER: -The flags?
19 MR. BEARD: If you look.on page 2lof S9N27 where l* 20 it shows the signal flow, if.you will. But it does show i
21 the' interconnections from the logic ~ module through the 22 (relay. drivers through cabl'ing.over to the various relays, e
- 23 which I assume that is the part that is within the cabinet -
J 2
24 we spoke about a minute ago, and it Shows it driving an
, Ac.-rw . d % m a m ,inc '
. 25 assortment of relays like, for example, the one we happen
, , ., ..,_ . 2 _ . - . . . . _ , _ _ - _ _ , , , - . . , _ . , _ _ _ . _ _ _ , , , . . _ _ - . _ _ , . _ _ _ _ _ , _ . _ _ _ . _ _ , . . _ _ _ _ _ . . _ .
.. . . . . . . . . . - . . - . - ~ . . .-. . - -. - . . . . .-
b 63'-
" ~
l to be 'looking a t now, K7-A2 up to ' K14-A2. 'So that-family 2 of relays and that designation I believe should be the 1.
jc . 3 second half of this table we have been talking about.
4 MR. YARGER: Yes.
I 5 MR. BEARDF Wonderful. Okay. Got it.
6 Since someone asked me to come out of the room ,
9 7 for another matter,'I guess I will have to ask that we !
l i
8 take another brief recess.
l--
W 9 (Recess taken.)
i end Sim 10 l
i 11 i
12 I 13
. i 14 ;
i 1
i 15 1
16
, 17 i '18 -
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22 23 1
e 24 r i ActFederal Reporters, Inc. >
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~6-1-Joe.Wal 64 1 MR. BEARD: We will continue then with our 1 .
2 discussion on the S FARCE, and I guess we should say that
, 3 Mr. Jain has provided us; two copies of his copy of the
! 4 cartoons we; passed out the other day that have his comments 5 on them, so we will get the benefit of those details.
L +
j 6 And, did you want to say.anything about the c
! 7 ' actuation list?
j .. 8 MR. JAIN: I:just wanted to clear the record the t p
l ,
9 the list in the Davis-Besse Emergency Procedure has been i
10 reviewed and no significant errors ' found in relation to what l
) II the actual S FARCE --
12 MR. BEARD: And it does appear to me that i 13 looking at the corrections you put on it, things that were Ii I4 left,off, I remember some of them being on the original, 15 so I think the errors that we have could be largely typing 16 errors, omissions, rather than some misspelled words.
]
1 17 MR. JAIN: That is what it looks like.
l 18 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, letL me tell you what i*
i 19 the schedule looks like. At quarter to twelve we are going 20 to start a different meeting _ on a different subject, 'so i
I 21 we have got thirteen minutes to wrap up this discussion, t
i 22 and I think that we can finish it, and there is only one 23 area that I think is crucial that I would like to under-j 24 stand, and' then go from there.
- Acer.d.r.s n.por,ws, lac.
l .- 25 What I would likn to do -- I think we are at
. _. . - . . - _ . - . - ~.- - - - - _. . . . ... -
- 6-2-Jon Wal
. 65 1 -the logical end of this previous discussion.
i..
i 2 If we can spend this amount of time, Sushil,
, 3 on tlle close inhibit circuits associated with valves AF-608 '
i i 4 and AF-599, I think - can that be covered in like 15 5 . minutes?
i 6 MR. JAIN: We will try.
. 7 MR. BEARD: Here we go, here we go. !!cre is
. 8 one -- it 'is the original, I don' t know where the copies 9 are, but this is a simplified version that we had of AF-608.
t 4
10 MR. JAIN: I think we had modified this to i
t 11 show the ceiling contacts. I i 12 MR. BEARD: Yes, that is correct, but this is 13 the original of what we started with, Maybe we can use this t
{'
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~
l 14 to explain these close inhibit, I think, is the term you 15 used, contacts in the closing loop which are K-303B and ,
16 K-301B. .
17 MR. JAIN: Correct.
j 18 MR. BEARD: That is the area I want to talk I 19 about. And I think what would be the most helpful to me l .
- 20 is to ask if the relay which is shown open, the relay 21 contacts shown open, do we know if that is truly a normally 22 open contact when the relay is in the shelf condition, or
, 23 whether it is in some other --
, 24 MR. YARGER: Shelf condition.
i Asw-d egwo-s lac ,
- . 25 MR. BEARD
- This is shelf condition?
l l
l l t
6-3-Jo3 Wal 66 1 MR. YARGER: (Nods affirmatively.)
2 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, when on E-18, I get
. 3 an actuation mark K-303, or RCS 303, would that mean that 4 this relay becomes energized or de-energized, or do we 5 know?
6 MR. YARGER: De-energized.
7 MR. BEARD: It would be de-energized. So that
. 8 when the functions like they are listed at the bottom of the 9 page show actuated, like example for K303, does this item 10 -- in other words , assuming these conditions that are listed, Il like for example No. 1 steam generator not low pressure, 12 and low level on either steam generator, or Number 2 steam 13 generator low pressure; in other words, for those conditions s -
14 this contact will become de-energized, and therefore it 15 would be open as shown on the drawing?
16 Is that what you said?
17 MR. YARGER: D is de-energized by low steam 18 generator 1, 2 pressure.
19 MR. DEARD: Okay. So, that is one of the 20 conditions we have listed. So that suggests that it is 21 de-energized for the conditions that correspond to RCS 3037 22 MR. YARGER: (No response.)
23 MR. BEARD: Would you agree with what I said 24 or disagree?
AceFederal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. YARGER:
I am sorry. I didn't catch it.
6-4-Joe Wal 67 1 MR. BEARD: I think you read off your table 2 over there is that K-303 is de-energized for low steam
, 3 generator level?
4 MR. YARGER: Pressure.
5 MR. BEARD: Low steam generator pressure.
6 Fm. YARGER: And level, and Delta-P.
7 MR. BEARD : Okay. Well, the only parts I am
. 8 really interested in right now are pressure and levels.
9 So, for the conditions that I have shown right 10 here, those are the conditions in which this contact would 11 be shown, and- the circuit would be open.
12 MR. YARGER: Yes.
13 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, let me see if I can i
14 walk through this. If that is the case, and that says 15 under the conditions shown at the bottom of the table, for 16 K203, that contact would become tripped, and hence closed, 17 -- this is a normally closed contact -- and to get the valve 18 to close, I also have to be not inhibited, which means I 19 cannot have the conditions that would cause K303 to bc 20 de-energized to open the circuit; it has got to be 21 energized.
22 This is -- really, to make it close, I have 23 to have K303 and K301 not trip. It means I have to have o
24 the opposite of what is shown at the bottom of the page Ace-FWeral Reporters, Inc.
. 25 for the trip conditions.
._ _ m.__. . . . __ ._ __. _ _ _ . _ _ . _ _ _ . _ _ _ .
6-5-Joe'Wel~ 68 1 HR. YARGER: Yes. What really happens, and I
~
2 think we proved diat yesterday, was if you got 301 -- or
. 3 303B tripped, and a low steam generator 1, 1 trip comes 4 ,in, it resets the 301 relay.
5 MR. BEARD: I think what you said -- let me 6 see if I can say it right -- if you had -- say that again?
7 MR. YARGER: 301B and 303B relays are tripped, T
. 8 on 1, 2 steam generator are low level, and then a 1, 1 ,
9 low steam pressure comes in, you would de-energize the !
i 10 201C and re-energize the 301 and B relays. ;
11 MR. BEARD: De-energize -- .
12 MR. YARGER: And 302. i 13 HR. BEARD: You would trip 203 and_cause 303 14 to close, so that you would then get closing action of the 15 MOV. Okay. Good. >
16 And then for K303, not tripped. That is the L
17 same as not of listed trip conditions. i 18 Okay. 'And then the outputs of this circuit !
t I9 would suggest, since they are parallel' paths, would be that +
. e 20 . Logic Channel 3 and Logic Channel I both have to be in that [
21 condition, so that is the And function in combination with 22 the dual closing coils.
L 23 MR. YARGER: That's right. l i
24 MR. BEARD: Okay. Now, in general can you-tell Ac.Jwww n, *n, he. !
, 25 me when.you would want to use this close inhibit? I know I [
i i
?
5
6-6-Joe Wal 69 1 can go through and work all these combinations, you know, 2 --
t 3 MR. YARGER': If you have a low level in 4 Steam Generator No. 1, and steam pressure then went close --
5 went low in No. 1, you would want to close the aux feedwater 6 block valve.
7 MR. BEARD: Okay.
. 8 MR. YARGER: Isolate the steam generator.
9 MR. BEARD: So, what you are saying is that 10 -- I guess all I am trying to understand is why do I need 11 close inhibit circuits, or why would one want close inhibit 12 circuits if the things up here that would just cause the 13 direct closing action are only low pressures.
14 In other words, the two contacts say that 15 generator has low pressure. Isn't that sufficient?
16 MR. YARGER: Well, for some reason they seem 17 to inhibit the closing of it unless you did have a low 18 steam pressure in that steam generator.
19 MR. BEARD: Because what I was trying to get 20 to is it seems like you have logic that doubles up and over-21 laps itself.
22 You got a signal that if you ignore the inhibit 23 function for a moment, it says the only time it is going to e
24 close is if you have low pressure, and then you have another Ace-Federal Reporters, Irw.
. 25 thing that says I will inhibit closing unless I have low l
6-7-Jo] Wal 70 1 pressure.
2 okay? So, it just seems like it is unnecessary t 3 logic.
4 MR. YARGER: It is redundant.
5 MR. JAIN: We are having Bechtel look at the 6 logic on this drawing to make sure why he did it that way, 7 and whether it is adequate at the present time.
. 8 MR. BCARD: So, this might come out of there.
9 MR. STALTER: We are really not sure why thin 10 is the way it is. We know that there was an SRN written, 11 that it, a System Revision Notice, early in the game that 12 added L*nis, these closing circuits in here, and we don't 13 know the reason behind that yet.
14 MR. BEARD: But I think the bottom line in die 15 one minute we have Icft is that, to the extent we understand 16 it, is the overall intent is to not operate the close 17 of that valve unless there really is low pressure on that 18 generator.
19 !!R. YARGER: That's right.
20 !!R. BEARD: I think I reasonably well understan<
21 it. thless there is some point you want to bring up that 22 you think that I need to know about.
23 MR. JAIN: We might have to clarify some of thi:
24 later once we have some more information. 1 Ac. f wnat e.pr+m. lac.
. 25 MR. BUARD: Good. Okay. I think this has been l t
6-8-Joo Wal 71 1 a very fruitful discussion. It has been interrupted several 2 times, but obviously that is the way business happens.
. 3 But I feel like at this point I have what I 4 would call a decent understanding of the way the system is 5 designed and in a way I should expect it to operate.
6 And, therefore, with that understanding, I 7 can look at this event and say: Did it operate the way
. 8 we would have expected, or did it operate differently, or 9 did something come in and confuse things, or whatever.
10 Okay? I certainly want to thank you for the 11 time you spent looking at these cartoons that I drew, 12 checked the accuracy of them.
13 MR. JAIN: I think it was a good exercise for L
14 us. What is the schedule for this af ternoon?
[
15 MR. DEARD: As far as I know, we have a 16 meeting in about one minuto in here on a dif ferent 17 subject, and then no other meetings scheduled this 18 afternoon.
19 MR. JAIN: When would you want to discuss 20 the other equipment?
21 MR. DEARD: I think that we have probably gone 22 far enough. I know that I have looked at the FGIV, I 23 have a good understanding of it. I have looked at the o
24 MOVs that we talked about, and the only one that was really AreF.deral Reporters, IM.
. 25 complicated is this one that has the close inhibit feature.
6-9-Wal, Joe 72 1 The rest of them are straight forward.
2 So, I am not sure that it is necessary to do
. 3 that. I think we can stop.
4 That is not to say there would never be a 1
5 question, but I don't think we have to sit down in a l 6 transcribed meeting and discuss it, okay?
7 I would like to say that we are finished.
. 8 (Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the meeting
, 9 concluded, this same day.)
10 * * ** * * * * ** *
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13 L
I4 15 16 17 18 e
19 20 21 22 23 24 ke rederas n porsm k.
. 25 l
L.
T CERTIFICATE T P t'% R:D : .;5 l
t :
3 This is to certify that the attached procoe:'.ings before the
, 4 $XXXXXXXX22XEXX NRC FACT FINDING TEAM.
3 In the matter of: DAVIS-BESSE INCIDENT Date of Proceeding: July 11, 1985 Place of Proceeding: Oak liarbor, Ohio B
Were held as herein appears, and that this is the original 8
transedpt for de Fle of de codssh.
10
- !!YRTLE !!. WALSI! GARRETT J. WATAII. JR.
Official Reporter - Typed Official Reporter - Typed 12 y ((D Y.ff) h J
~ W * *.
Officiadfeporter-Si Of fl ial Reporter - Sigt. ature IS 16 17 MARY SIftONS la Official Reporter - Typed 19 20 g4_ J,,,g g
'OfficipReporter-Signature 22 23 24 23
! TAYLOE ASSOCIATE 5 REGISTERED PNOFCSSION AL REPORTER 5 NORFOLK, VIRGINIA l