ML20086T746
| ML20086T746 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 06/02/1995 |
| From: | GEORGIA POWER CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| OLA-3-A-044, OLA-3-A-44, NUDOCS 9508030143 | |
| Download: ML20086T746 (31) | |
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l DOCKETED GPC EXIUM GREENE EX. B
% . J1.14 A10:05 1 TAPE 287. PAGE 13. LYNE la THROUGH Pact 75. LTWE 5 2 JUNE 29, 1990 -
3 0FFICE OF SECRETARY !
4 Tynan: Hey Curtis. What? I wish I was. YNQIddWre EaWICE l 5 (on phone that cover letter to the site area emergendh4 pod '
6 w/ Horton) in your hand; right? You got any comments, problems j 7 with it? I think corporate kind of wants to blame it 8 on us, if there's anything wrong. What I'm doing is 9 the PRS telephone poll before the five o' clock meeting 10 because this can't wait until 5 o' clock. Okay, the 11 last half of the first paragraph. Mm-ham. Okay, the 12 first half you disagree with.
13 14 Tynan: (inaudible) 15 16 (Comment: Can hear ALM in background saying "this is 17 18 Hairston's material false statement.") !
19 Tynant Right.
20 21 Frederick: You can't count 18 starts afte'r the event, in a row 22 without problems.
23 24 Tynan: You know what, I think, (inaudible) George Fredericks '
25 sent me a thing. Allen, that -- 1 26 27 Frederick: I didn't give anybody any words.
28 29 Jynan: No, he didn't.
30 31 Frederick: (inaudible) ;
32 33 Tynan: Hey, George, did you come up with these words? [i.e.,
34 "these discrepancies can be attributed to ;
35 ...) "
36 l i
37 Frederick: Mr. Hairston (inaudible) 38 39 Tynan: Mr. Horton?
40 41 Horton: (inaudible) 42 43 Tynan: Well, I think what Mr. Fredericks is saying is that Mr. ;
44 Hairston come up with the last sentence in the first 45 l paragraph. ;
46 1 47 Frederick: I just think that, my understanding from Harry Majors '
48 is that Hairston may have wrote the last sentence 49 himself.
50 ]
51 Tynan: He disagreed with it. \
52 !
i 53 Horton: Then I withdraw my comments.
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1 Frederick Why? If it's the truth, it's the truth.
2 3 Horton: I think it's wrong, but I certainly think I'm sure 4 Hairston knows more than I do. '
5 6 Frederick: What's wrong, Mike, because I think you got it fron our 7 audit report.
8 9 Norton: Well, what was wrong with our diesel start 10 recordkeeping practices?
11 '
12 Frederick: Okay. Let me give it to you in a nutshell, okay. On 13 the days --
14 15 Horton We're doing it the same way we've always done it. ;
16 17 Frederick: No, no. Wait a minute. Let me just tell you what the 18 --
19 20 Horton: Do I need to change my program?
21 22 Frederick: Probably. Let me tell you the facts, okay. You ready?
23 24 Horton: Tell me what's wrong. ;
25 26 Frederick: Your log was out of date the day we wrote the LER.
27 2a Horton: Oh, okay.
29 .
30 Mosbaught That's irrelevant. !
31 32 Horton: If that's the justification, I'll buy that.
33 34 Frederick: Well, it's true. !
35 36 Horton: Is that the root cause here? l 37 '
38 Frederick: That's part of it. i 39 '
40 Hosbaugh: That's irrelevant. It wasn't even used. -
41 '
42 Frederick: It could have been used. ,
43 44 Mosbaught )
It wasn't used. 1 45 '
46 Frederick: It could have been used.
47 48 Mosbaught It doesn't matter.
49 50 Horton: That's why I keep getting comments about updating the 51 log today.
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4 1 Mosbaugh: It doesn't matter if it wasn't used. I 2
3 Frederick: Yes, it can be. !
4 l 5 Horton: I understand now.
6 l 7 Frederick: I can't hear you. Allen was talking to me. !
8 '
9 Norton: several people kept asking me how often I update the 10 log and have I updated it today and when an I going to 11 get off my buns and update it and things like this, and '
12 I've.always wondered where they were coming from with 3 13 those comments. Now I know. ,
14 15 Frederick: Was that before today or after? Was that before today 16 or today? !
17 18 Horton: No, before today, long before today.
19 1
20 Frederick Okay. He only got my results today, so those comments ;
21 were generated for some other reason. l 22 23 24 Horton: Okay. But it's your opinion that the reason we gave the NRC erroneous data was because the people that 25 gathered the data used the log and assumed it was up to 1 26 date and it wasn't?
27 !
28 Frederick: No, that's not true. The reason we gave the NRC 29 . erroneous data is because we had no log available to i 30 use. The last time the log was updated before we wrote 31 the LER was March the 16th, which was before the event.
32 33 Horton: Right.
34 35 Frederick: So there was --
36 37 Horton: It's the same issue. A timely updating is the same 38 issue.
39 40 Frederick: Well, but what I'm saying is they didn't use an 41 erroneous log. There was no log to use for that 42 period.
43 44 Hortons Right, because it hadn't been recorded yet.
45 46 Frederick: That's right. That's a different statement than what 47 you're saying.
48 49 Mosbaugh: George, thst's not true, okay.
50 !
51 Frederick: It is true. The log is not up to date, Allen. It's not 52 up to date right now.
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1 Mosbaught I'm not going to argue with you on that, okay.
2 3 Frederick: I'm not arguing.
4 5 Mosbaugh: I was a participant on these conversations, and I know 6 and understand why the error was made,.and this is not 7 why.
8 9 Frederick: I didn't say why.the error was made. I haven't said
'10 why the error was made.... My audit. . . Hey, Mike.--
11 12 Mosbaugh: I'm referring to what's written down here.
13 14 Frederick: Hey, Mike.
15 16 Horton: I'm listening.
17 18 Frederick: The audit report does not say why we made an error. i 19 The audit report says what the conditions were that j 20 existed when we wrote the LER. As a matter of fact, 21 the audit report says that several of the start pages i 22 that have to be forwarded to the engineer were still 23 being processed by Operations and had been processed !
24 for 24 days and still hadn't been sent to them yet., So j 25 I don't know how anybody counted them because nobody i 26 knew where they were.. '
27 l
28 Mosbaught Nobody counted them from your log, Mike. I 29 . 1 30 Frederick: Mobody counted them (inaudible).
31- l l
32 Mosbaugh: The problem is not that they counted them from your log <
33 Dr they didn't count them from your log. The problem I 34 is that the people that counted them from the source . ,
35 records that they counted them from either counted then :
36 wrong or made mistakes in counting them or weren't 37 careful in their counting or whatever.
38 ,
39 Norton: That was my understanding.
40 41 Mosbaugh: That is the cause of the event. ;
42 '
43 Frederick: Yeah, but, Mike -- !
44 45 Horton: I'll go with the flow here.. I won't resist. ;
46 -
47 Frederick: Hey, Mike, if the log had been up to date, they i 48 wouldn't have had to go to those sheets of paper.
49 l 50 Horton: I don't disagree. I 51- ,
4 L
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b 1 Frederick: Okay. That's all the audit report says. The log '
2 wasn't -- there was no log to go to.
3 4 Mosbaught George, I'm not disputing your report and whether it 5 was up to date. And obviously it wasn't up to date and 6 there was a big lag, and a lot of people have 7 responsibility for that.
8 9 Horton: Everything you're saying, George, is true.
10 il Mosbaugh: But what we're talking about now is the letter we're '
12 going to submit to the NRC.
13 14 Horton: But it's irrelevant.
15 16 Frederick: I don't think it's irrelevant.
17 18 Mosbaugh: We talking about a letter we're going to send to the 19 NRC.
20 21 Frederick I think, Mike, we're unwilling to face the truth if we 22 don't say that the fact that we didn't do our 23 recordkeeping right probably caused us to make the 24 mistake.
25 26 Mosbaugh: That's not true.
27 28 Horton: If that were true, I have no problen. whatsoever with 29 . saying that and going off and fixing it, but that was 30 just not my understanding.
31 32 Frederick: Well, I --
33 34 Horton: I thought adequate research went into this and it was 35 just poorly done.
36 37 Mosbaugh: You're correct, Mike.
38 39 Frederick: Well, Niko --
40 41 Horton: But that's alright. I don't have a major heartburn 42 with this, but --
43 44 Frederick: Hey, Mike --
45 46 Horton: What?
47 48 Frederick: I would say right now that basically --
49 50 Horton: Go ahead.
51 5
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1 Frederick I would say that:the people who are drawing the '
2 conclusion on the root cause right now are doing it 3 from the facts they've been presented. And the facts 4
are that the diesel start sheets from-14980 and 13145 5 were in routing someplace...They hadn't been processed.
6 The Shift Supervisor's log is not an accurate record of 7 what happened. .And the diesel start logs were not l 8
9 updated until five days after we cubmitted the L[ER) -- ~
as a matter of fact, it wasn't --
10 11 Voices (inaudible) 12 13 Frederick: They weren't updated until 13 days after we submitted.
14 the LER.
15 16 Horton: I understand.
17 18 Frederick: So if you take all those things in total, that's a 19 significant burden on the person trying to come up with-20 the number of starts. so now what you got.to do is 21 draw your root cause from all of that.
22 23 Mosbaught George, I used those same source documents and came up I 24 with an accurate record without auch difficulty..
25 26 Frederick: You're exceptional Allen [ laughing).
27 28 Mosbaugh Well, there's other information. If we send this in 29 . the way it is, we may well be submitting additional 30 false information.
31 32 Frederick Mike -- There's nothing falso in there. I would 33 recommend what you do is get on the phone real quick 34 with Harry Majors and, you know, discuss with him where 35 their conclusions are coming from. I think the major 36 contibuting -- my personal opinion is the contributing 37 factors were the sloppy processing from the control 38 room to your engineers, okay. It took something like 39 24 days to get several of those sheets to them. And 40 the other one was the fact that the log had never been 41 updated. As a matter of fact, Mike, as of this 42 morning, the 1A diesel log has not been updated since 43 May the 2nd. That was as of this morning.
44 45 Norton Okay. That, that doesn't bother me. I mean, it would 46 be nice to have it up to date to the minute, but --
47 48 Frederick Well, it's missing about probably about 10 valid starts 49 or valid tests and one valid failure.
50 6
1 Mosbaught- If this root cause is true, then we shouldn't be 2 submitting it because his log is not up to date for 3 this'information, if this is the root cause.
4-5 [ inaudible) 6 7 Horton: If there's a need to have the log updated because a people may run up and look at it, then I need to go fix 10 9 that. But previously we report off the logs as for-certain intervals or certain events and we. generally 11 just update it for those purposes.- If there are other-12 purposes, then I need to go fix.that, which I can do.
13 I don't disagree, but I think we're introducing a new- ,
1 14 variable that's not part of the program currently, and 15 I don't consider that necessarily a problem. It's just 16 an enhancement we need to go make to the program.
17 18 Frederick: I don't think we're talking about a program right now, 1
19 Mike. I think that we're talking about is Mr. Nairston ~ ;
20 trying to explain why we made a mistake. l 21 ;
22 Norton: I understand that, but the program in question is'the-23 methodology of getting the log updated.
24 1
25 Frederick: Yeah. I 26 1
27 Horton: Whatever, I don't see that as a material false 28 i statement Carolyn.
29 .
30 Tynan: Okay.
31 32 Horton: I disagree with it personally, but I'm not interested !
33 in arguing about it right now.
34 35 Tynan Okay. I'm going to pass that on to Tom.
36 j 37 Horton:
38 I'm assuming though that there's a corresponding 39 corrective action required. For example, George, an I ,
going to get AFR?
40 41 Frederick: No, we couT.an't find where you were not in compliance 42 with your procedure.
43 44 Horton: Make a suggested recommendation?
45 l 46 Frederick: Yeah. We recommended we change the way we do business 47 48 or either that your procedure have more specific guidance in it.
49 50 Horton: Okay.
51 Well, there's your corrective action then.
52 Bottom line is let's send it.
7-
4 l
1 Tynan: I'm going to pass that on to Tom.
2 3 Horton: Tell him I loved it.
4 5 Mosbaugh: I just loved it.
6 7 Tynan: You'd be the only one. Okay, thanks, Mike, and I guess 8 five o' clock is still on.
9 10 Horton: Bye.
11 12 Tynan: All right.
13 14 Tynan Let me call Tom. Ya'll should be in here too.
15 15 Mosbaught We're digging a deeper hole.
17 18 (Comment: dialing tones) 19 20 Tynan: Ester, I need to talk to Tom.
21 22 Dixon: Hold on. He's on another line, Carolyn. Hold on.
23 24 Tynan: Okay.
25 26 Mosbaugh: I mean, this is not falso but you attribute it to 27 something false.
28 29 .Tynan Is that the only problem, Allen, that last line?
30 31 Mosbaugh: It's the only thing that's false.
32 33 Tynant what's false?
34 35 Mosbaugh: It says the discrepancy is attributed to these causes, 36 okay, and I would contend that those are really not the 37 causes. Now, it may be true that we're attributing to 38 those things that are wrong, okay, and I'm not sure if 39 that's false or not. Is it wrong when you say you 40 attribute it to something that is wrong? i 41 42 (Comment: Starting here, the transcript may be hard to 43 follow because Tynan is having a conversation with 44 Dixon and then Greene while at the same time Mosbaugh 45 argues with Frederick.)
46 )
47 Tynan: Yeah?
48 49 Dixon: He's talking to Bill Shipman. Let me get him to call 50 you right back.
51 52 Frederick: opinion's not fact. i 8
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l 1 Mosbaugh I think I would have to be a lawyer to determine that.
2 All I'm saying is that if you were involved you would 3 know. . .
4 5 Greene Hello?
6 7 Tynan Say, Tom?
l s l
9 Greene: Yes, ma'am.
10 11 voices (inaudible) 12 13 Frederick: It's true.
14 15 Tynan I've got Allen Mosbaugh and Tom Webb and George 16 Fredericks in here. I just got off the phone with Mike 17 Horton. {
18 19 Frederick: The person that had to come up with a number had no 20 data to go to. He did it by the seat of his pants.
21 22 Greenes (inaudible) 23 24 Tynant There is a concern on the last line of the first.
25 paragraph.
26 27 Frederick: Why did he do it by the seat of his pants? He was 28 forced to. Why was he forced to? The logs were not 29 . available. Records were not available. The records 30 weren't in the vault; ops still had them.
31 32 Greene: The number of (inaudible).
33 34 35 Mosbaugh: You didn't listen to what I said.
36 Frederick: I did too. I've been listening to the whole thing.
37 38 Tynan: That's not the one.
39 40 Frederick: I'm the guy that put comments in the PRB minutes the 41 time we tried to write it wrong the last time and you 42 rewrote it for me. It was still wrong.
43 44 Mosbaugh: It was not wrong when I rewrote it.
45 46 Tynan: Okay, so the first part of that sentence is 47 48 (inaudible).
49 Frederick: The note I got is.
50 51 Mosbaugh: What note have you got?
52 9 i
- _ - _ _ _ - - - --_ _ - -________ . L
. . ~ . . . -, -.
1 . .
1 Frederick: I've got an updated copy of the LER.
2 3 Tynan: (inaudible) there seems to be a little problem with ;
4 that. >
5 6 Greene: where are you at now?
7 s Tynan: In my office.
9 10 Greene: In your office,.okay. Do I need to walk over there?
11 12 voice: Well, I mean, they can talk to you right now in here.
13 14 Greene: Okay, go ahead.
15 16 (comment: All parties are now involved in the same 17 conversation.)
18 19 Tynan: okay, George and Allen. I think Allen may have some 20 other questions.
21
- 22 Greene: All right.
23 24 Mosbaugh: I guess, Tom, you know, the thing that seems rather.
25 funny to me about this is that the PRB approved the 26 revision to that LER on the 8th of May, and that 27 revision approved on the 8th of May was correct then 28 and remains correct now. And all of what we've done 29 . has not changed anything. And now we're going to send 30 a letter forward that, you know, it's probably -- most 31 of what's in this cover letter is probably true, and 32 the new basis that's being presented in the LER is i 33 probably true too. But then what was in the rev.
34 approved by the PRB on the 8th of May was also true.
35 36 Greene Mm-ham.
37 38 Mosbaugh: And I think some explanation is owed for all that. In 39 addition, this particular cover letter assigns a --
40 attributes a reason to the errors, and whereas that 41 statement may be correct, it is certainly not complete 42 as to the cause of our making these mistakes and s 43 providing inaccurate information.
44 45 Greene: Mm-ham.
46 47 Mosbaugh: we can send a half-truth out, but, you know, it seems 48 to me at this point we ought to be coming clean.
49 50 Greene: How would you change the letter? (pause) 51 10
1 Mosbaugh: Pell, it would seem to me that somebody ought to !
2 3
explain the truth relative to.the mistakes.
- 4 Greene
- !
5 George, have you gone through how you arrived at these numbers with them? '
6 7 Frederick: Is this Tom Greene?
- 8. i 9 Greenes Yes.
10 11' Frederick: Okay. I didn't recognise your voice on the speaker.
12 You sound different.
13 14 ~ Greene: I got here at five this morning.
i 15 !
16 Frederick 17 Yeah, me too. The problem -- what Allen is talking 18 about is where someone down at corporate has looked at 19 the audit report and made a decision on attributing a root cause to why we made the mistake. That's what --
20 21 Greener Na-ham.
22
- 23 Frederick: And Allen feels that that's not a true statement or 24 it's not completely true. I don't know what Allen's 25 talking about.
26 seans.
I don't know what other root cause he Allen's going to have to tell you what it is.
27 28 I don't know what root cause we're talking about otherwise.
29 .
30 Greenes Ma-ham.
31 Have you explained to his exactly how you 32 arrived at the 10 and 12, George?
33 Frederick: Yeah. That's not an issue.
1 34 35 Greene: Okay.
36 I
37 Frederick: Tom Webb is here with as and he's gone over the same 3s !
39 numbers from his own records. He agrees with those numbers. j 40 i 41 Mosbaugh:
42-You know, Tom, the revision approved by the PRS on the l 43 8th of May stated that the completion, in that ,
l 44 particular meeting, stated that.the completion of the l 45 comprehensive test program, that the program was over 46 just prior to doing the -- and the comprehensive test l 47 program as referenced in the LER was a comprehensive )
48 test program testing the controls and logic. So that ;
49 test program completed just prior to doing the 50 undervoltage test, and that was the definition that the-51 PRS agreed to when it approved that revision and indeed 52 that notation is reflected in the revision of 5/8.
Now, this goes ahead and assumes a different basis for
'i 11 j
1 that point, and that's fine. We all can assume l 2 different bases, but I don't know why we're changing j 3 our bases. l 4
i 5 Greenes Ma-ham. ;
6 .
1 7 Frederick: Hey, Tom? l 8 i 9 Greenes Yes. i 10 !
11 Frederick: The reason the first successful surveillance test was I 12 picked was because it removes any-fussiness on whether I 13 it was a valid start attempt and whether.it was.
~14 successful. And if you use the criteria that Allen is-15 talking about, I believe you gain two starts. That 16 still doesn't --
i 17 18 Mosbaught Nobody's trying to gain or lose starts here. I'm just 19 saying that -- l 20 ,
21 Frederick: I have --
22 23 Mosbaugh: Just a second. This brings into question,.you know, 24 whether or not we had a definition of the and of the 25 -test program. And all I'm saying is the PRB on the 8th 26 of May established the definition for that.
27 28 Greenes Why don't ya'll come on over to skip's office and let's 29 . talk about it.
30 31 Frederick: Sure.
32 33 Greens: I don't think we can do.it over the phone. See ya'll 34 in a few minutes.
35 36 Frederick: You're there right now?
37 38 Greenes I'm in Skip's office, now.
39 40 Frederick: Okay.
41 42 Greene: All right. Bye.
43 44 12 l
1
.s 1 TAPE is7 ' SIDE 2 2
3 Voices (inaudible) 4 5 Voice: (inaudible) the log (inaudible).
6 7 Frederick: There were no logs is (inaudible 3.
8-9 Williams: When I say logs I'm talking about the supervisor's log 10 or (inaudible) logs.
11 12 Voice: It's (inaudible). You can't --
13 14 Voice: What I'm saying is we're not missing that log 15 (inaudible).
16 17 Frederick: I couldn't agree (inaudible).
18 19 Voice: What we (inaudible). Err on the side of conservatism.
20 21 V'oice: (inaudible). . . . Jimmy Paul Cash and George Bockhold 22 got information. They used the logs from the control 23 room. . .
24 25 Voice: (inaudible) the log.
26 27 Voice: Well, (inaudible).
28 29 _ Voice: Can I borrow (inaudible)?
30 31 Voice: (inaudible) 32 33 (pause in tape) 34 35 Voice: I guess (inaudible) the core (inaudible)..
36 37 Voice: (inaudible) 38
.39 Voice: As I was saying (inaudible) divided by (inaudible).
40 41 Voice: (inaudible) 42 43 Greene: I don't like speaker phones.
44 45 Voice: I don't either.
46 47 Greene: They cut in and out on you and you can't (inaudible).
48 49 Greene: okay.
50 13
O
. i l' voice: Let me interrupt before you start. Did you understand 2 that we're supposed to get (inaudible) back to Ken 3 Mecoy immediately if not sooner on this?
4 5 Voice: Well, (inaudible). I can tell you that right now, 6
7 Greene Really? (inaudible) If Ken is expecting this to go to 8
9 the PRS at five (inaudible) at five. It can't wait till five.
10 11 Webb: That was the phone call.
12 13 Voice: It can't wait till five.
14 15 Voice: This is a phone call. (inaudible) the PRB.
16 17 Voice: Okay. Now, (inaudible) about the letter (inaudible).
18 19 Voice (inaudible) 20 21 V'oice: Just the substance.
22 23 Voice: Right.
24 25 Voice Let's do that.
26 27 Greene: What's the concern about that statement in the letter 2 28 (inaudible)?
29 . i 30 Voices (inaudible) 31 1 32 Mosbaugh: Well, what you're trying to do is, you know, somebody l 33 else is going to have to answer for changing everything 34 all around to a new basis. I mean, first we're going 35 to a basis of valid versus any old start which was all I 36 of our other documents. Then we're going to go to a 37 new basis of where we count the starting of the !
38 comprehensive, the completion of the comprehensive test 39 program, okay. So we've established two new bases, and 40 we said, okay, with these two new bases, these are the '
41 start numbers now, okay. Now, if somebody wants to '
42 establish new bases, fine, and those numbers for those 43 new bases, I will assume somebody's done a review and 44 those are correct. You know, I think that in itself is 45 questionable establishing these new bases, especially 46 when previous revisions exist that use the old bases 47 and compared apples to apples instead of apples to !
48 oranges. But, r,otwithstanding all that, the last 49 sentence then goes and draws a conclusion as to why the 50 error was 3ade.
51 52 Greene: Ma-ham.
s 14 i
I l
1 Mosbaugh: And it says the error was made because of diesel start 2 recordkeeping practices and the definition of'the end 3 of the test program. Well, I say that is not true, and 4' I participated in the calls and the discussion and the 5 PRB meetings and so forth, in preparation of the LER.
6 I assume this error is gnly referencing why the error 7 was made in the LER. I don't'know.
8 9' Greene This information is also (inaudible) -- these numbers 11 0 are also (inaudible).
11 12 Mosbaugh: No, not these numbers. .The only thir.g that's gone in 13 the LER is valid start numbers.
14-15 Voices (inaudible) 16 17 Mosbaugh: No.
18
'19 Webb: The LER is (inaudible).
20 .
21 Mosbaught The 10 and 12 are not going in the LER.
22 23 Greenes what makes you think that?
24 25 Mosbaugh: Because I've seen the approved LER.
26 27 Voice: (inaudible) 28 29 .Mosbaugh: The PRB approved the LER at the last PRB meeting.
30 31 Greene: What did the PRB approve yesterday?
- 32. (inaudible) 33 odom: It changed five times in the last (inaudible).
34 35 Mosbaugh: Well, somebody else is changing the PRB other than --
36 the LER, other than the PRB.
37 38 Greenes This is what the PRS looked at yesterday.- I have this 39 (inaudible).
40 41 Mosbaught oh, the LER's been changed by corporate again? okay.
42 43 Webb: (inaudible) changed that and (inaudible) the cover 44 letter, yes, but the LER itself, no.
45 46 Greenes These numbers, this makes no sense to me to write a 47 letter like this when the LER hasn't got the numbers in 45 it because they're updating the LER. What I believe is 49 (inaudible) the updated LER and for you to have numbers 50 like this and then can't use them, they won't 51 (inaudible). Whatever is sent will most likely end up 52 in the LER. I certainly would never send this letter 15 l
j
F
.- t t
.e-i 1 off, attach the LER, and then have a letter. I believe !
2 we're talking about numbers that we'll see in.the LER.
3 I'll be glad to put clarify (inaudible).
4 5 Mosbaugh Well, the basis in the LER is different, Tom. The LER~ 4 6 states valid starts through today's date. This letter ;
-7 states successful starts, not valid starts, through ,
8 April 19th, so you have totally different bases. !
.9 Jr 10 Webb: Yes, the letter was making a correction from the first j 11 LER, but the LER itself is updated to the current time '
12 or approximatly the current time. So they are talking '
13 apples and oranges here. (inaudible) put those numbers 14 in there. '
15
{
16 Greene: Well, I think the whole argument comes down to are you 17 implying that the previous work was some way in error?
18 And what I think I hear you saying is may changed 19 around a little bit (inaudible).
We all know how to
, 20 . count. We are counted correctly and (inaudible). ,
21
- - 22 Mosbaught No, we did not count correctly, and that's basically my- !
i 23 bottom line when you start to talk about the cause for '
- 24 the LER being submitted with incorrect information in-
- 25 it. I believe that that -- if I were to state the 26 cause of that, is due to personnel error, carelessness, ,
27 and negligence. Those are pretty strong words, but !
25 that's what I think happened. I 29 .
- 30 Greenes That's how we go through 19 and 11.and got what? Which '
i 31 number are you referring to?
32 l 33 Mosbaugh The original revision of the LER. i i 34 l 35 Greenes That's the one that was done on May 8th? ,
- 36
, 37 Mosbaugh: No, that was the one that was submitted on the 19th of.
, 38 April. ;
!. 39 '
l 40 Greene: That's the original version of the LER.
l 41 j~ 42 Mosbaugh: That's the only one that's false. I mean, that's the 4 43 only LTA that's false. It's the only LER we've 44 submitted.
4
!. 45
- 46 Webb: The original version (inaudible) the PRB approved on j 47 May the 14th or May the 8th, excuse me.
1 48 ;
, 49 Greene: We said no failure occurred in any of these tests. If I
! 50 change that last line, have I said something wrong in
- 51 the rest of the letter?
j- 52 16
.o.
s
.1 -Mosbaugh: I think the rest of the -- ;
2 3 Voice: (inaudible) i 4'
5 Frederick: In the course of our audit, we found that on the date 6 we submitted the LER, the diesel start log had not been ;
7 updated since March the 15th (inaudible) we subsitted l 8 the LER on April the 19th. The diesel logs were not !
9 updated until May the 2nd, so when we submitted the 3 10 LER, there were no diesel, none of these starts were in !
11 the log. There were no diesel logs to go to.
12.
13 Mosbaugh: When he's saying the diesel log, he means the 14 engineering diesel log. So it was not available and
'15 was not used. i 16 17 Frederick: The second thing we found was that some of the diesel l 18 start sheets (inaudible) surveillance (inaudible) -
19 diesel starts (inaudible). Some of those had been in l 20 process for up to 24 days in the control room before 21 being sent to the engineers, not to the engineer until i 22 April the 24th, which is five days after we sent the ;
23 LER. It hadn't even been proces>&d.
24 t 25 Greenes So that makes (inaudible).
26 27 Frederick: So it was a significant processing problem with the 28 sheets (inaudible) out of the control room. There was 29 . no diesel log to look at and (inaudible) the ,
30 supervisor's log you counting significant (inaudible) 31 was significant omission. So the person who was tasked '
32 with trying to develop the numbers of starts 33 (inaudible). I don't know where they were located, t 34 There was no need for the (inaudible). I don't know I 35 how you can know you had a complete set if you had a j 36 whole stack of them laying in front of you. :
37 (Inaudible) what the audit documented was what the !
38 situation was, (inaudible) person was, (inaudible).
39 Corporate is attributing.the error made to those same .
40 problems.
41 42 Mosbaugh: The log was not available and was not used to compile
- 43 the information. That's the facts. ;
44 ;
45, Frederick: I agree with him. It wasn't. l 46 ;
47 Greene: Okay, so let's forget the fact that we're talking about ;
48 the log and let's go back to the statement. (Reading) l 49 "The discrepancy was attributed to diesel start !
50 recordkeeping practices." All right, the recordkeeping !
51 we're referring to se is not just the log, but the fact )
52 that we wrote things down, the information was !
t 17
+
- ; ,, -- ,-, . . ~ - - - - . - . - _ . - - . . . -. - - . - - _ _
l 1 incomplete; that we had a method of reporting, even 2 though it's not part of the log, it was (inaudible).
3 4
And then we start to (inaudible).
5 Mosbaugh: We didn't use that. You know, Tom, this information 6 started with Jimmy Paul Cash.
7 8 Greene: Ma-hmm.
9 10 Mosbaugh: Okay. So you ask yourself why did Jimmy Paul Cash make 11 a mistake? I mean, If you want to ask yourself why the 12 error was made, that's where the error started. And 13 the arror propagated through Tom and NSAC (inaudible) 14 because they assumed that information was correct, and 15 then just added on to it for extra days. Is that not 16 correct?
17 18 Odont That's nel correct. We went through and we personally 19 took the control room logs and everything else and 20 tried to verify the (inaudible).
21 22 Mosbaugh: That v.-s after, that was after, that was after 23 questas.4s relative to the accuracy of the data were 24 brought up.
25 26 Webb Right. We didn't put numbers in (inaudible).
27 28 Mosbaugh: Prior to that, you merely extended on Jimmy Paul Cash's 29 . information. Then questions were brought up as to the 30 accuracy of the data, and you went out and did a review 31 of the log.
32 33 Webb: That's not true.
34 35 Mosbaugh: Well, if any of it isn't true, let me know.
36 37 Webb: When we originally drafted the LER, we didn't put those 38 numbers in there at all. Corporate came back and 39 wanted to put numbers in, so in the last day or two 40 before the LER was ready to go to the NRC, we started ,
41 scrambling trying to find numbers that we could rely 42 on. We went through the control room logs and started 43 to add up ths (inaudible) .
44 45 Frederick: Any reason we didn't use the engineering log?
46 47 Mosbaugh: It wasn't available. It wasn't complete and it wasn't 48 available. There was nothing in it.
49 ,
50 Voice: It wasn't a usable source.
51 52 Mosbaugh: There was nothing in it. ;
18
1 Odom: Usually more accurate and (inaudible) started up.
2 3 Greene: Ma-ham.
4 5 odom: We couldn't tell in a lot of cases what was going on.
6 The control room (inaudible).
7 8 Greener Based on that, why is the statement incorrect then that 9 the discrepancy was attributed to diesel start 10 recordkeeping practices? If we don't send the stuff to 11 the engineering people in a timely fashion, don't you 12 think we've got a poor practice?
13 14 odom: I can tell you from the past that in doing diesel 15 Special Reports we always had a hard time getting the 16 material.
17 18 Greene: I think that's all we're trying to say in this letter 19 is they're not blaming the log per se. They're saying 20 our practice of keeping the log up, but (inaudible) 21 records (inaudible) log. It's the way we keep our 22 records. (Phone ringing.) The definition of the end 23 of test program. Tell me the definition of, we used on 24 May 8th and (inaudible).
25 26 Mosbaugh: The LER states numerous sensor and logic testing was 27 performed prior . . . after . . . subsequent to the 28 completion of the comprehensive test program.
29 .
30 Voices (inaudible) 31 32 Mosbaugh: It's in reference to logic, control logic testing.
33 34 Voice: Harry's holding.
35 36 Greene: Harry, here I as with a unit down and you hand me this 37 hot potato.
38 39 Voice: Is (inaudible) reasons (inaudible)?
40 41 Greene: Where did the last line....I'm going to put you on 42 speaker. You have to understand you're right in the 43 middle of a heated argument, so you just let the water 44 roll off your back.
45 ,
46 Majors: This is (inaudible).
47 l 1
48 Greene: Okay. l 49 50 Majors: All right.
51 19
. . . . . - . ~ _ . - -- ._ . . - .- . - .~.. -- . . .-
g ;. . i 16 , i i
l
~
1 Greene: This is the author of the letter. Is that a fair 2 statement, Harry,-that you're the author of this 3- letter? '
4 .
5 Majors: -I will accept it, but I'll. reserve the right to make a !
6 disclaimer at a later point.
7
-e . Greener Let me see if I can establish some facts here.
8 ,
- 10. Majors: All right.
11 t 12 Greene: All right. Number one, the information that is in this 13 ~ letter, " Loss of off-site Power Leads _to site Area 14
- Emergency" is to be a cover letter to the LER? ';
15 16 Majors: That's right. -
17 '
18 19 Greene: That's the same information that is also being put into the LER?
20 ,
21 Majors: The only thing 'that changed in the LER Jince the FRS !
22 saw it last is we changed that number of starts from 11 !
23 to 12 because ^.he, when they did the QA audit report, '
24 they found another valid test that hadn't been checked 25 in the column there. ,
26 -t 27 Greene All right. So the 11 and 16 is-now 12 and 167
'2s i 29 ; Majors: That's right. !
30 31 Greene: All right. 'So this letter then -- okay. Okay, that's ,
32 a fact. Let's see if I understand it based on that.
33 34 Majors: Okay, now, I can explain further, if you want me to.. :
35 36 Greene:
Go ahead.
37 38 Majors: Okay. The audit report, if you look at Page 3 of the 39 audit report where it talks about the number of'
- 40. successful starts subsequent to the completion of the ;
41 test program. ,
42 43 Greene: Yes.
44 45 Majors: Okay. What we were trying to do is be consistent with l 46 the audit report with the letter.
47 i 48 Greene: Okay.
49 50 Majors: So what we're trying to do to the LER is change it to i 51 not mention the number of starts subsequent to the test ,
52 program. :
20 t
JT
, - . - - = - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . . . . . . _ _ . - ._ ., .,.,,..~___o . . . , , , , ,,n , , , , , , _, ._
m 7
1 Greene: Okay. We're going to let the LER-talk about valid 2 starts, and we're going to let the cover letter talk 3 about successful starts subsequent to the test program?
4 5 Majors: Right. In other words, the letter is going to 6 basically address the question of the problem with the 7 previous LER.
8 9- Greene Okay. The number of successful starts included in the 10 original LER included some of the starts that were part 11 of the test program.
12 13 Majors: Right. Now, that's a Ken McCoy additional sentence 14 that has been blessed by George [Nairston). So 15 obviously if there's a problem wath it, George would 16 want to know about it.
17 18 Greene: Sure. The discrepancy is attributed to diesel start 19 recordkeeping practices. What did you mean by that?
20 .
21 Majors: Okay. That's another George and Ken McCoy designed 22 sentence, and they're referring there to this audit 23 report, trying to summarise ... I'm trying to find ...
24 the thing the section of, especially in the audit-25 report where it says no specific cause for the.orror in 26 the LER, a number of 18 starts was identified other 27 than it (inaudible) appears this probles existed when 28 the LER was prepared, based on the review of the log no 29 .
entries were made in the Unit i diesel log between 30 March 15th (inaudible). It says "there is no single 31 sottree document readily available for determining the 32 results of diesel starts."
33 34 Greene Let me ask you something. The word discrepancy implies 35 that there was mistakes and errors made previously.
36 The only thing that I believe everybody agreed to is 37 that the original LER had some mistakes in it.
38 39 Majors: Right.
40 41 Greene: The LERs written after that were based on how do you 42 want to count these things.
43 44 Majors: That's right.
45 46 Greene All right. So why don't you say instead of 47 discrepancy, why don't you just say the difference, 48 meaning you're talking about what's in this letter 49 versus what's in the LER.
50 51 Majors: I don't have any problem with that, and I don't think 52 they will either.
21
E .
1 Greene: "The difference is attributed to the diesel start 2 recordkeeping practices..."
3 4 Majors: Right. I don't think anybody will have any problems 5' with that.
6 7 Greene: "
...and the definition at the end of the test program."
8 That's how you explain the difference in the LER and ,
9 what's in this letter?' -
10 -
11 Majors: Yes.
12
- 13 Greene
- All right. We're all standing behind what's in the 14 LER, the 11 and the 16.
15 16 Majors: Right. We had the QA report, we counted off, and show '
17 exactly what we're saying, 12 and 16.
18 19 Greenes The 12 and 16, okay. But we used the engineering log 20 for that number, didn't we?
21 22 Majors: That's right. We used the engineering log. If you ,
23 turn over to Page 4 of the audit reporti Section 5.
24 25 Greenes Mm-ham.
26 27 Majors: It says -- it discusses the fact that they go to the >
28 engineering log and then it talks about the fact that "
29 . there have been additional tests performed according to 30 procedure 14980, diesel generator operability test, 31 that were done since the last time that the engineer's 32 log was updated, these tests have been done. If you 33 add those to the ones on the engineering log, you come i 34 up with 16 and 12. l 35 i 36 Greene: Right. '
37 38 Majors: And that's how I came up with 16 and 12.
39 40 Greene: But that's based on the engineering log that we keep?
41 42 Majors: That's based on the engineering log that we keep which 43 was last updated on -- I'm not sure -- 5/2 or something 44 like that, plus the additional successful completion of 45 tests according to that procedure, since the last time 46 the log was updated. l 47 i 4s Greene: Okay. Allen, can you ... you know, basically what 49 we're saying here is that the LER was indeed accurate.
50 so --
51 22 t
_ ~ -_
g ..
1 Mosbaught I haven't contested that the new LER is inaccurate or 2 accurate. I haven't looked at the data. I-don't know 3 that it is inaccurate. You've just changed to apples 4 and oranges.
5 l 6 Majors: That's right. He's right about that.
7 8 Greens: Yeah.
9 10 Majors: What we've done is because we have so much difficulty 11 discussing and getting our, hands around the number of 12 starts subsequent to the test program, particular if 13 you try to count the number of starts subsequent-to the 14 15 test program and prior to our submittal of the original LER -- it really gets more difficult there because we 16 don't have a good -- you know, you can argue whether 17 something is a successful start or not. So that's why 18 we chose to go with the valid starts. You can now tie 19 it down to the Reg Guide 108 definition and that sort 20 .
of thing.
21 22 Mosbaugh: But, you know, with what Tom just said about the 23 difference, you know, that makes the end of that 24 sentence read better, but it makes the beginning of 25 that sentence read in a funny way as far as I'm 26 concerned. "The difference is attributed to diesel 27 start recordkeeping pr:atices."
28 29 . Majors: Yeah. !
30 31 Mosbaugh: We didn't change our recordkeeping practices.
1 l
32 l 33 Majors: George personally zerood in on those words.
34 !
j 35 Greene: Well, what he's saying is we haven't changed our 36 recordkeeping practices.
37 38 Majors: Right.
39 40 Mosbaugh: We didn't get different numbers because we changed our 41 recordkeeping practices. We got different numbers 42 because we failed to accurately count in the beginning 43 as compared to now.
44 45 Majors: Right. And what the QA audit report says is that part 46 of that was apparently due to the fact that, you know, 47 you do tests but you keep separate logs, different 48 kinds of logs for different kinds of tests, and you 49 collect data sheets and they're transferred over to the 50 diesel generator log. So a person that went out and 51 tried to count, you know, could have been misled by 52 counting from the wrong log or a combination of logs.
23
a
.1 .
NJ -
1_ ime way they worded it was that there's no single 2 source document -- that's [ reading from the audit 3 report) "therefore, no single source document was 4 readily available for determining the results of the
-5 diesel start attempts following the site Area Emergency 6 and. prior to the submittal of the LER." It also is 7 that there is the " confusion about the specific point 8 at which the test program was completed". And they 9 start that paragraph out by saying "no specific cause 10 for the error in the LER in the LER-number of 18 starts 11 was identified." So this sentence is consistent with 12 the QA audit report, and that's what they were trying 13- to attempt because they anticipate that. the QA audit l 14 report will have to be explained to the NRC. They want _
15 to make sure this letter, you know, (inaudible).
16 17 Mosbaugh: I got - -
18 19 Greene I've got to step out of the room for a minute. I 20 .
[ Comment: Greene apparently leaves the room.) !
21 1 22 Mosbaugh: I've got one other comment about the letter, Harry. In l 23 the second sentence you state that this letter is l 24 explaining the discrepancies in two different '
25 documents, yet you do not proceed to explain the 26 difference in the second document. You only address 27 the difference in one document.
28 29 . Majors: Yeah. Originally the letter did not refer to the April 30 9th letter, but George was afraid that if we didn't 31 mention the Apral 9th letter, the NRC aight interpret '
32 it as trying to avoid discussing it. And we think we !
33 can defend the April the 9th letter, but we don't want 34 the NRC to think we're trying to avoid discussing it. :
35 36 Mosbaught Well, I'll read it again. "This revision is necessary 37 to clarify the information about the diesel starts in 38 the letter and the LER." 'And then it only proceeds to 39 clarify the infocmation as stated and referred to in 40 the LER.
41 42 Majors: That's right.
43 44 Webb: (inaudible) letter makes the same statement about the j 45 number of starts.
46 47 Mosbaught No. The errors in counting in the original -- in the 48 COA response letter are different errors than the ;
49 errors that were made in counting that went into the 50 LER.
51 ,
24
- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ ---- + -- - - -
a - -
e s
1 Majors: Yeah, I'm not sure that I would say that there were 2 errors in the April the 9th letter.
3 4 Mosbaught Why would that be?
5 6 Majors: Because the April the 9th letter was based on George 7 Bockhold's presentation. In George Bockhold's 8 presentation he identified each individual start, and 9 so on that basis I think you can say that the letter on 10 April the 9th was consistent with what he had in slidas 11 in terms of numbers of starts anyway.
12 13 Mosbaugh: Yeah, I think it's probably consistent, but I think 14 it's also false.
15 16 Greene: It seems to me its reasonable to leave the last line in 17 there to say the difference is attributed to the diesel 18 start recordkeeping practices and the definition of the 19 and of test program, and it's referring to the original 20 LER, not the revised LER, not any of the updated LER's 21 but it makes specific reference to the original LER.
22 23 Majors: Right.
24 25 Greene:
26 There is a difference between what the attached LER 27 that we're going to give to them (inaudible), what this 28 letter has, and what the original one had. And you 29 have to explain thet difference. And it seems to me
. these are acceptable ways to explain that difference.
30 31 Some of these should not have been counted. We made 32 log entries that didn't take the adequate information, 33 or we went from information that was probably a poor way to get (inaudible), and the bottom line was we 34 ended up with a false count.
35 36 Majors: Right. I don't have any problem with changing 37 discrepancy to differonce.
38 39 Greene I really fee
- like we've got to put something in here 40 41 that's usable. (inaudible) l 42 Greene: Let's change the word to difference, and let me find 43 out if any of the other PRB members have a problem with 44 it.
i 45 46 Majors: l' Okay.
47 )
48 Greene:
49 Wa did this by phone poll because I couldn't get everybody together.
50 51 Majors: Okay.
52 25
. l 1 Greene: I had to have a PRB at five o' clock to get the plant 2 started up.
3
- 4 Majors: Yeah.
5 6 Greene And we we got (inaudible) a phone call. So I'll get 7 back to you in a few minutes and let you know.
8 9 Majors: Okay.
10 11 Greenes Thank you.
12 13 Majors: All right. You'll get back to se or you're going to 14 call Een McCoy?
15 16 Greens: Tell me your extension. l 17 18 Majors: My extension is 7079.
19 20 Greenes I'm going to get back to you.
21 22 Majors: Okay.
23 24 Greene: All right.
25 26 Majors: All right.
27 28 Greenes You go talk to Ken and see if he's got any problems 29 . with that word, if you would.
30 31 Majors: I will in the meantime.
32 33 Greenes Thank you.
34 ;
35 Majors: Okay.
36 37 Greene: Good bye.
38 '
39 Voices (inaudible) 40 41 Greene Allen I don't know any -- you know, I wasn't involved 42 in the original LER and I don't know all the sources.
43 I do know that we have revised the LER several times.
44 Most PRB members are getting tired of looking at *his 45 (inaudible) the LER. We need to go ahead and just 46 decide what we're going to submit. And that the 47 original LER, everybody agrees, has some problems with 48 it. This is as reasonable a way of explaining how the 49 differences are that I can think of.
50 You have to admit ;
that. '
51 52 Mosbaugh: It's incoeplete.
1 26 I
I l
I i
1 Greener Tell me how you would change the letter then.
2 3 Mosbaugh: We said this was going to explain the April 9th letter. '
4 This doesn't explain the April 9th letter at all.
5 6 Greene: All right.
7 8 Mosbaught This only explains references to the comprehensive test 2 9 program. The April 9th letter doesn't use any words '
10 like comprehensive test program. So how did we make 11 that mistake? ,
12 13 Webb: That April 9th letter also referred to 18 starts, 14 without problems or failures.
15 16 Mosbaugh: Yeah, from the time of the event. How was that false?
17 Why was that false? -
18 19 Webb Because there wasn't 18 starts with no problems or 20 . failures. There were starts with problems on that 21 basis.
22 23 Mosbaught Well, okay, is that because we counted starts that were 24 included in the test program? No. It's a different 25 reason.
26 27 Webbt I don't know where the 18 came from either, but I know 28 that 18 --
29 .
30 Mosbaught It came from George's presentation.
31 32 Webb: We argued and arped over it until this time of day on 33 April 19th and finally corporate said we believe what 34 we said on April 15 okay, we're going to put that in 35 the LER.
36 37 Mosbaught You're correct. That is what George Bockhold said.
38 39 Webbs (inaudible.) Now we have two letters, dit LER letter 40 on April 19th and the April 9th letter which are both 41 wrong.
42 43 Trederick: (inaudible) that paragraph.
44 45 Webb I agree.
46 47 Frederick: And that is on that date that letter was wrong and we 48 49 still didn't have documents (inaudible).
50 Mosbaught Well, sure, but is that the cause?
51 27 ;
i i
i
__i
.l 1 Frederick: Most likely. If you gave a person (inaudible) the odds 2 are (inaudible). ;
3 ,
4 Greener You think if we had kept the engineering log up like we l 5 should have, we wouldn't have this probles?
6 7 . Mosbaugh: Yes. Certainly. Definitely. i 8 !
9 Greenes What do you think the cause was? !
10 11 Mosbaught The information was all available, okay. i 12 l 13 Odon: You say the information was available, then how does it >
14 fit that the (inaudible) was it easily ...?
15 16 Mosbaugh: I don't know. You know, you're trying to ask me to 17 state why somebody else made mistakes, okay, and I 18 don't know how to do that. I took the same set of 19 information and got right numbers.
20 . ;
21 Frederick: Well, two weeks ago (inaudible). .
22 23 Mosbaught George, I understand that. I understand that, okay, '
24 but I took source data. I took the s[hift) .
25 S[upervisor's] log, I took the control log, and I took 26 the data sheets filled out for the machine operation, l 27 and I got a right set of -- I got right numbers.
28 ;
29 -Frederick: Well -- J 30 31 Mosbaugh: In addition, those right numbers were put into an LER 32 revision over six weeks ago. In addition, we defined 33 in that revision what the comprehensive test program 34 was, and it was perfectly clear, but we didn't submit 35 that LER. That leads me to wonder what's going on.
36 i 37 Greene: I think I've got the information I need. I've got to l 38 find out what the (inaudible). I appreciate ya'll's l 39 time. Rick, you got a minute?
40 41 odom: sure.
42 43 Voices (inaudible) 44 45 (ALM walking). (Break in taping.)
46 47 Webb And so after about two or three weeks I call up and 48 said, " Hey, you guys working that thing or what are you 49 doing with this?" He says, "I don't know. I'll find 50 out" and Amy Streetman (inaudible). She calls back and 51 says, "I found it. ;t was put up on a shelf. It 52 wasn't being looted at."
28
y re-1 Mosbaugh: . Why didn't we submit that? Why didn't.we jump on that?
2 3 Webb And then it started again three weeks ago.
4 5 Mosbaught So why didn't we jump on that one?
6 7 Webb Well we did. They they started to (inaudible).
8 9 Mosbaugh: No. No. I know.
10 11 Webb: They worked on it for a week or two and then they sent 12 something back here, "How do ya'll like this,".and we 13 said, "That's fine," and they sent it back again with 14 more major changes. And we said this is going to have 15 to go to the PRS.
16 17 Mosbaught Then why did they want a complete rewrite?
18 19 Webb: That was kind of strange too. I was wondering where 20 , that was coming from.
21 22 Mosbaugh: There's more than one thing strange (inaudible).
23 24 Webb: Instead of just fixing the one error, "We want to.get a 25 complete rewrite." We went, " Huh? What? Why?"
26 27 Frederick: That was part of our (inaudible) wanted it updated for i 28 all the corrective action.
29 .
30 Webb: I heard that was Hairston's mandate.
31 32 Voices (inaudible) 33 34 Webb: Yeah. I heard that from a couple of people.
35 36 Frederick: (inaudible) changed their mind on that.
37 38 Webb: Well, they didn't exactly change their mind because we 39 did update the information that was in there 40 originally. We didn't add in the information we said 41 we were going to.
42 43 Frederick: But I understood the reason we did that was because 44 it's taking so long to correct the original LER that we 45 felt if we're going to do that, we (inaudikle) 46 47 Webb: I know we couldn't, on the original we send that we'll 48 send the complete update in five months.
49 50 Frederick: Yeah.
51 29 l
1 l
.. l
)
1 Webb And here we are halfway through the five months and now '
2 we're going to change plans and do something else. I 3 thought that was kind of weird.
-4 5 Frederick: That was because of an identified error in the LER.
6 7 Webb: (inaudible) -
8 9 Frederick: I guess we waited long enough to correct the error that i 10 they decided we'd better go (inaudible). !
11 12 Webb But we were right in the middle of all the action. We 13 (inaudible). These are all done; here's what we did.
14 15 Fredericks (inaudible) 16 '
17 Webb: We're still in the middle of everything now. It~is 18 real strange how they handled this at the Corporate 19 level. I don't know why.
20 .
21 Frederick: Well, there were at least two revs of that thing today 22 that I know of, that I don't believe ever crossed 23 anybody's desk. !
24 25 Mosbaught Let me ask you about one other thing. When was 26 Hairston going to sign the revision?
27 28 Fredericks He's got to sign it before twelve o' clock because !
29 .
(inaudible) 30 31 Mosbaugh: No, no, no, the revision that we processed on the 8th '
32 of May.
33 34 Frederick: I don't know, (inaudible) 35 36 Webb: I called all the past couple of week and said where's >
37 that. Oh, its in the office up on a shelf. It's not 38 being looked at. So we've got to get it going again.
39 (inaudible) That's real stratge because I can't recall 40 when that's happened before (inaudible).
41 6 42 Voice: What?
43 44 Webb That we sent them up to them and it just got dropped. ,
45 46 Mosbaugh Ma-ham.
47 48 Voice: This happened before, but very (inaudible). ;
49 50 Mosbaught Especially one like this. !
51 30
1 Voices (inaudible) especially when it's had so much attention
- 2 (inaudible).
3 4 Mosbaught (inaudible) 5 '
6 Frederick: I recall sitting in the war room the night of the event 7 recommending that we keep a detailed log of everything 8 we do, then we can reconstruct it. And it worked for +
9 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> and they decided that -- somebody decided it's 10 too cumbersome, too much work. And I do see many of 11 these events, when they get big and take more than 24 12 hours, you don't keep a record, you are doomed for 13 diaster. Because "who shot John" becomes more of an 14 issue than what really happened. You just continually 15 spin your wheels on what you did and who said what and 16 what was the real test that was performed; what were 17 the pertibations put on the system and under what 18 conditions was it done, and everybody forgets. People 19 get tired and they don't have notes.
20 21 Webb: (inaudible) get tired.
22 23 Voice: (inaudible) 24 25 Voice: Yeah.
26 27 voices (inaudible) 28 29 Nosbaugh: one LER 30 31 Voice: (inaudible) 32 33 voice: (inaudible) 34 !
35 l 36 '
37 38
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