ML20099L369

Intervenor Exhibit I-MOSBA-4A,consisting of Transcript Re Intervenor Exhibit 4 Tape 99,dtd 900508,TR 43-53

ML20099L369
Person / Time
Site:	Vogtle
Issue date:	10/06/1995
From:	AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED
To:
References
CON-#495-17231 OLA-3-I-MOSB-4A, NUDOCS 9512210319
Download: ML20099L369 (9)

Text

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSloh

-)

"C

(

/

DocketNo. SCH24/425-oLA-3

. EXHIBIT No. -tf -4 4 _

q In the matter of Georola power Co et al.. Voatie Ur$n 1 & ?

O Statt O Applicant [igniervonor O other O identif*d delved O Rejected gh rwe to/i/W nenop Witness kb h

4h INT. EXH.

TAPE 99 M 7 @ OCT 20 P5 :08 5-8-90 TR. 43-53 g y pp - -rq rc I don' t know what you're talking aboutD.W ' "

VOICE:

VOICE:

You mean like lie?

MOSBAUGH:

Yes.

VOICE:

Are you serious?

About what?

VOICE:

Well, the PRB just reapproved the LER --

HORTON:

Wait a minute.

You were there.

MOSBAUGH:

They reapproved the LER on the site area emergency

which, as it went in originally, is materially false.

It took credit for more diesel starts than actually occurred.

And the letter that they sent in earlier did the same

thing, though in a

different manner.

[ phone rings)

HOETCN:

Horton.

MOSEAU3H:

George knows about that?

HORTCN:

Yes, sir.

FROSFIELD:

I don't know.

You know, we started talking about this kind of problem fighting the NRC.

You know, how far back, a year ago maybe, with, you know, before block valve testing or safety valve testing, how many issues were there where we just fought and fought and fought and fought MOSSAUGH:

And we lost on every one.

FR!SFIELD:

We ended up getting violations on all but one.

VOICE:

Yes.

VR;SFIELD:

And we continued to fight with the NRC through the IIT because our attitude was get these guys out of here as soon as possible.

[ Simultaneous conversation.)

FRCSFIELD:

{ Inaudible) and George told them to their face we want you all cut of here.

VOICE:

Yeah, you might have heard that from me.

That's 9512210319 951006 DR ADOCK 05000424 PDR

I 1

i something I've been trying to get to the bottom of for quite some time.

[ Inaudible).

MANSFIELD:

I just thought that was totally [ inaudible].

VOICE:

UV Trip permissive previously [ inaudible) before the design change.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

[ Simultaneous conversation].

VOICE:

But you know what?

These guys didn't fight with the NRC on Unit 2 start-up.

You did what the hell they wanted.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible) before they even came back and asked you to [ inaudible].

MANSFIELD:

[ Inaudible) the attitude is we're not going to get our license if we don't do what they want.

Now we've got our license and we're fighting.

VOICE:

Yeah, they don't want to get it to the point where we need to keep our license.

VOICE:

They basically just about took our license after this event and we didn't revert back to the old ways we should have.

PARTON:

Where's the crystal ball A1.

Where's all this lead you to?

What's going to happen [ inaudible).

VOICE:

[ inaudible) non-emergency [ inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

I think it can lead where you indicated--new management.

That would mainly be new general manager, maybe assistant general manager.

It could lead to --

VOICE:

Before the diesel breaker ever closed --

MOSBAUGH:

-- Hairston using this as an excuse to impose more of the Farley organization.

VOICE:

We could end up with a VP on site.

MOSBAUGH:

No, no.

I don't see that.

I don't see that, see, because that would be contrary to SONOPCO.

They wouldn't do that here because --

VOICE:

Beckham, is Beckham a [ inaudible] Hatch? i

]

V

-- then they'd have to do it there.

MOSBAUGH:

VOICE:

No.

VOICE:

He's not.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

He was.

I mean he -- it's him and McCoy and --

VOICE:

Yeah.

But VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

They wouldn' t bring a VP on site but they No.

VOICE:

Like I might change out plant manager [ inaudible).

say, depending on -- I don't know Hairston enough to say.

VOICE:

I've never seen [ inaudible).

I've never heard him talk, I've never heard that he was here.

MOSBAUGH:

No, no.

He's never here.

He never comes here.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible] third start [ inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

I personally don't trust him.

I've had a number of dealings with him and I guess I can say I don't trust him and I don't like him.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

[ Inaudible) possibly a UV --

MOSBAUGH:

You know, I started telling him about problems we were having in the department, you know, with losing the talent, you know, and the engineers getting treated like dirt and he told me I had a performance problem.

VOICE:

So it was your problem.

MOSBAUGH:

Yeah.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

He said it sounds to me like you've got a

performance problem.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible). J

.6 MOSBAUGH:

I mean, I've seen that tactic before in certain managements, certain --

VOICE:

[ Inaudible) just concerned that operations did not have --

Almost corrupt management.

MOSBAUGH:

a good understanding of all of [ inaudible).

VOICE:

and legitimate turn quality problems problems into performance problems so that they can' That try to MOSBAUGH:

And then deal with them in the discipline arena.There are ways to do there are ways to do that.

that.

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

Exactly.

That's the new fix.

Well this means

[ inaudible).

Unless we can do VOICE:.

something out of it, it doesn't mean anything.

You got to go do something.

MOSBAUGH:

[ Inaudible) their comments [ inaudible).

VOICE:

Maybe that's the plan, but VOICE:

MOSBAUGH:

I don't know.

I think, you know, McCoy needs to work on it a whole lot more.

level of detail of understanding of how

[ Inaudible)

VOICE:

the diesel [ inaudible).

needs to understand it a whole lot more.

I He he can have an MOSBAUGH:

don't believe there's any way that understanding, you know, of it, you know, from talking to George or from a meeting like that.

He's going to have to talk to individuals.

VOICE:

MOSBAUGH:

Yeah.

He's got to get down to a --

I'll go talk to him.

VOICE:

Now, I

-- forum where people will talk, you know.

left the meeting and Indira Kochery just out of the MOSBAUGH:

blue said something like "everybody knows what the p oblem is and, you know, but nobody's going to say - - -

2 it in there," you know.

VOICE:

Of course they're not.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible) problem is.

VOICE:

What I'd like to do --

MOSBAUGH:

She talked about the closed society.

Other people referred to it as the clique.

VOICE:

That absolutely is [ inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

That's exactly what she said.

She said "everybody i

knows that exists," you know.

VOICE:

They still have that

[ inaudible).

They're not happy [ inaudible).

VOICE:

So clique or whatever you call it, it's not a big deal with me, it's just how we generally do things.

You know, it's just like Williams talked about before.

Because of NRC, we buck anyway, it seems like it.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

VOICE:

Every recommendation that they give us, we fight.

The first answer -- the first thing out of our mouth was [ inaudible).

VOICE:

We just need to, even if we are right, we don't have to roll over and [ inaudible) work...

[ Simultaneous conversation).

MANSFIELD:

We have an attitude that bringing this plant down is the absolute worst thing that could happen.

Okay?

And it's not the worst thing that can happen.

You know --

MOSBAUGH:

Bringing it down for ten years is --

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

40 years is the worst thing that can happen.

MOSBAUGH:

MANSFIELD:

The worst thing that can happen is that you don't operate it safely and you injure people.

GREENE:

Use the stock market theory here, the less profit

[ inaudible).

i 4

MANSFIELD:

We refuse to accept that we're going to have to bring this plant down now and then because of problems or because of regulatory issues.

We do --

I

mean, we go to extremes with tech spec interpretation to keep this plant running and we've done it for years.

I mean, we've always done it.

We've always done it.

And the NRC's not stupid.

PARTON:

You know, we're kind of like the card players that makes up the rules as he goes along [ inaudible).

VOICE:

Yeah.

I

mean, that's a

good point to make

[ inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

[ Inaudible) I mean --

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

MOSBAUGH:

[ Inaudible) I mean this game turkeys out of place.

VOICE:

Yeah.

[ Simultaneous conversation).

Oh well, I know that's what I said yesterday but that's not what that means.

I didn't really mean to [ inaudible) evaluation.

That would be ' quite bad.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

GREENE:

If that's what you feel, that's what you ought to say.

VOICE:

I just think we

[ inaudible) your people

[ inaudible).

Not that we're doing things that are quite underhanded, sleazy or anything like that.

VOICE:

No.

VOICE:

[ Inaudible).

MANSFIELD:

Tom we're not, we're not saying this because we're uninformed, either.

We get, we get into the heart of these issues.

GREENE:

I know.

MANSFIELD:

And we're well schooled on how the plant does things.

And from what these guys have said McCoy said the NRC said, I don't disagree with anything they've said.

e 4

GREENE:

Got a question for you.

You got enough nerve at 3:30 to say it?

MANSFIELD:

No, I'm not going to say it in front of the people that are going to -- that are going to --

.MANSFIELD:

-- in front of the clique.

I'll tell you what.

I told Al [ inaudible? maybe you're I don't know when you (Tom) walked up, but what they need to do is take people aside individually.

Maybe McCoy one-on-one with folks, where they can be open and not fear retribution.

I mean, I'd gladly tell somebody, but if I start saying these things in front of certain people, you know, my future may be limited here.

[ Inaudible] you would swear up and down it couldn't be, just like the NRC says when you go to talk to them about something.

You can't control that.

HORTON:

[ Inaudible] You all got this worked out?

VOICE:

Huh?

HORTON:

You all got this worked out now?

VOICE:

No.

'GREENE:

We're re-doing the world.

[ Inaudible).

PARTON:

It's off of my chest.

I'm sure you will figure out the appropriate way to handle this, Mike.

VOICE:

You're just too cocky.

That's all there is to it.

GREENE:

Cavalier.

VOICE:

{ Inaudible).

VOICE:

Cavalier, what does that mean?

VOICE:

Are you going to keep --

GREENE:

That's a person from Virginia.

VOICE:

Are you going to keep my commitment there or what are you going to do with it?

l VOICE:

Arrogant.

VOICE:

We are that.

i MANSFIELD:

Do you disagree with anything you heard?

1 -

- V GREENE:

(Inaudible]

No.

VOICE:

Where are we headed to from here?

HORTON:

You don't disagree with anything you've heard?

GREENE:

The discussions.

Well, 3 :30 we're supposed to meet ou guys weren't in there.

You with (inaudible).

v were in there --

MANSFIELD:

Were we supposed to have gone to that?

I thought -

VOICE:

No.

GREENE:

Was 3 :30 af ter [ inaudible).

VOICE:

Three-thirty is yours.

GREENE:

Well, really Ken's the one that's opened the floor up and I think what he's looking for is feedback.

He heard some things this morning I think that shocked him, definitely concerned him more than shocked him.

VOICE:

Really?

VOICE:

Yeah.

VOICE:

What did he hear?

VOICE:

Hallman was a little more honest than you guys

[ inaudible] here.

GREENE:

He just said in my department, he says it's not what you know, it's not what the problem was, it's who is at fault, that seems to be the answer around here.

And that got under Ken's skin.

I mean, he 2

didn't get mad or anything, but he [ inaudible].

He i

didn't know who was doing it, he didn't know names.

But I think that that stuck with him.

I would be surprised if he said something about it in the next session.

VOICE:

What -- is there an incident or incidents that he's speaking of?

VOICE:

Hallman's case?

VOICE:

Yeah.

VOICE:

He didn't say. l i

1

4 GREENE:

I don't know.

l if your l

MANSFIELD:

He's right, though. If.you're in this department is part of this clique.

3 4

t i

GREENE:

How big is this clique you're talking about?

i VOICE:

[ Inaudible),

i 1

MOSBAUGH:

Tom, you just came out of operations and you don't i

know who is in the clique?

i GREENE:

No.

I was over in training.

Then I was in outage management.

And they're not in that clique.

4 4

l 2

[wilsonpe) M:\\FENLANT:,\\WFDOCS\\TLF\\ TAPE 99.512 05/16/95 3:36pm i

+

t s

4 i '

4 i

5-j i

h j-k d

+

i l

i I

i I

f

}.

l

.f T

..y

.. _ _ _