ML20199H695

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Partially Withheld Transcript of 850502 Telcon Re Feedback Interview W/Alleger.Pp 1-15.Supporting Documentation Encl
ML20199H695
Person / Time
Site: 05000000, Comanche Peak
Issue date: 05/02/1985
From:
NRC - COMANCHE PEAK PROJECT (TECHNICAL REVIEW TEAM)
To:
Shared Package
ML17198A302 List: ... further results
References
FOIA-85-299, FOIA-85-59, FOIA-86-A-18 NUDOCS 8607030425
Download: ML20199H695 (17)
v • d • e


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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA i

2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

4 COMANCHE PEAK TECHNICAL. REVIEW TEAM 5

FEEDBACK INTERVIEW 6

i i

7 4

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

8 Suite 402

}

444 North Capitol Street, N.E.

9 Washington, D. C.

10 Thursday, May 2, 1985 II The telephone interview cc:::menced at 10 :03 a.m.,

12 Chet Poslunsy presiding.

13 PRESENT:

Id

' Interviewee 15,!

CHET POSLUSNY 16 ('!

ERNIE THOMPSON SHOU HOU I

NRC T.achnical Review Team 17 f i

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MR. POSLUSNY:

We will start here.

For the 3

record, this is an interview ofI for the i

4 purpose of providing feedback regarding the technical 3

5 review team assessment of certain concerns raised about

~

6 the Comanche Peak facility.

Present at this interview are I

7 myself, Chet Poslusny of the technical review team; Ern i.e l

8 Thompson, also of the team; and Tao Shou Hou; and we are 9

talking to,C;.R w hag.

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P 10 As agreed, this interview is being transcribed 11 and a copy will be provided to you,(dKyyr'GQ In i

-t 12 addition, we will be providing a copy of our SER, safety 13 evaluation report, which will include this item'that we 14 are going to discuss today.

We will send you a copy of 15 that also.

16 We would like to start a discussion of the i

17 technical concerns.

Mr. Thompson will begin.

18 MR. THOMPSON:

Let me first of all be sure that 19 we have characterined your allegation correctly As

,Q 20 we understand it, your allegation was that an improper 21 weld design was used to attach Cadweld sleeves to 2-inch s

22 thick A588 steel plate details on steam line penetration 23 assemblies of the reactor containment building.

I believe l

24 y,our assertion was that the. steel plate details used were 25 susceptible to laminar tearing when tensile-loaded in the s

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1 thickness direction.

This is a condition which you felt 2

would result if Cadweld sleeves were welded to A388 steel 3

plates.

Is that correct 4

Partly.

5 MR. THOMPSON:

If it is'not correct, would you 6

clarify.

7

' The fact that when the members 8

came to the job site, they were already showing signs of 4

r 9

laminar tearing at the welded joints of the members 10 th ems elv es, not in the Cadweld sleeve area.

We had cracks 11 from 2 to 3 inches long -- I don't know how deep in the 12 welded areas -- but in the members themselves, showing 13 that this seal, whether it is 588 or not, is definitely 14 susceptible to laminar tearing.

15 MR. THOMPSON:

Are you now talking about th e 16 material of which the penetration sleeve assembly itself 17 was made?

18

' WiNW Yes, sir.

19 MR. THOMPSON:

Because that threw us off a 20 little bit.

There was no A588 steel specified for the 21 penetration sleeve assembly itself.

There were specified i

22 two other materials, I believe.

That is A516, grade 70 t

23 and ASME SA 537, class 2, and then an SA 533, grade 6.

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24 The reinforcing plate was SA 537, class 2.

So you are l

I 25 saying then that these materials which were part of this

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1 penetration sleeve proper showed laminations?

2 Yes, sir.

t; 3

MR. THOMPSON:

Did you say that these had 4

already been repaired prior to receipt or that you had to

. i 1

l 5

repair them after receipt?

6 They were repaired at th e job site, 7

af ter-it was dete= mined that if the members were remade or i

N 8

remanufactured, if would cause a job delay of at least six 9

months.

10 MR. THOMPSON:

Were these repairs in the gussets 11 themselves or in the pipe section?

12 In th e gus s et.=

th' ems elv e s.

13 MR. THOMPSON:

There are some standing gussets.

14 I think they were not too high, maybe 2 or 3 inches high.

15 Does that sound about right for the gussets?

16 I am not sure what you are 17 referring to as " gussets."

18 MR. THOMPSON:

If the penetration sleeve itself i

1 1

19 is a pipe, correct?

J 20 No, sir.

Not what I am talking i

21 about.

We must be talking about two different things.

22 This is not a pipe.

This is a rectangular member or a i

23 square member, it is made out of 2-inch plate fabricated l

24 up.

It is an I-beam-like section which makes a perf ect J

1 25 square with a square hole through the middle.

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1 MR. HOU:

I think you may think that A588 steel 2

plate is part of the penetration assembly,, is that right?

I do not remember exactly.

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4 MR. HOU:

But your concern is about the e

4 5

integrity of the plate, th e 2-inch plate?

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_The 2-inch plate used, regardless 6

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of what material it is.

Because it is definitely

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susceptible to laminar tearing, as was demonstrated by the 4

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laminar tears in the plate when it was received at th e job 1

I 10 site.

.j 11 MR. HOU:

You think the plate is used for the 12 containment penetration?

1 s

i 13 m'.a F=7-..y Pardon me?

2 14 MR. HOU:

You think that the plate is part of a 15 penetration assembly?

16 ff;Os2 ~Mog Yes, sir.

It is a part of this l

j i

17 plate assembly.

That is what was repaired, this 2-inch i

18 plate assembly, 19 MR. THOMPSON:

Did you say these were I-beams?

4 6. N $

They'd be fabricated pieces out of 20

}

21 2-inch plate that form more or less an I-beam.

i 22 MR. THOMPSON:

You said they were a square I

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,d 23 member when they are through with it?

24 It forms a square box.

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25 MR. HOU:

I think Mr. Thompson is trying to tR'I M.

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1 explain to you that if the plate itself is not a part of t

subject te 2

the penetration assembly and also the plate is I

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compression, you will not cause the concern of the laminar

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tearing.

5 The mechanism I'm talking about 1

6 had Cadweld sleeves that were to accept number 18 rebar i

i 7

attached to it top and bottom.

The welded tubes, the very 8

outside of the member and therefore any stress applied in 9

tension would be through the Z direction.

I cannot 10 believe that a force inside the containment building I

11 itself would not put pressure in a tension direction.

j 12 MR. THOMPSON:

I am confused now.

What you are Jl 13 talking about is not what we were looking at.

4 14 Q)g$geq Q*fg I do not have a set of plans, 15 obviously.

You should have.

It is a square member that 16 was f abricated up out of 2-inch plate.

It is a not a i

17 member that the main steam line goes through, but it is 18 the member that the number 18 rebars are Attached to.

19 MR. HOU:

I can explain to you, one, th e 20

, penetration sleeve actually is a pipe type, the pipe shape.

21 These are 2-inch plate is not the penetration.

They are i

22 not welded to or is part of the penetration assembly.

23 This plate is actually the anchor plate.

You 24 attach the rebar to it.

The rebar goes through the hole i

25 and then there is a Cadweld sleeve, but that is after you 1

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1 weld, and that weld is a weld that is just temporary to 2

hold the rebar in position before putting the Cadweld.

3 After that, you pour the concrete.

This is subject to 4

compression because 'the rebar, the end is through the hole; 5

the compressing force would not cause laminar tearing 6

effect through the plate.

7 MR. THOMPSON:

not talking about that.

He 8

is talking about something we haven't looked at.

9 MR. HOU: /

concerned about the effects to 10 the penetration cf the integrity of the plate itself, 11 subject to laminar tearing.

12 MR. THOWPSON:

Not the hardware we looked at.

I 13

_alking about something different.

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ruw.cra Yes, sir.

16 MR. THOMPSON:

That square structure, was that --

17 since you said Cadweld sleeves and bars were welded top 18 and bottom,, it must have been encased in concrete.

19 Yes, sir.

20 MR. THOMPSON:

These are associated with the i

21 - main steam line penetrations?

22 -

That is correct.

23 MR. THOMPSON:

Is this part of a pipe, by any 1

9 24 chance?

25 Sir, it has been a long time since A9

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1 I was th er e.

It is hard for me to remember all the 2

terminology.

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3 MR.-HOU:

This is for tension on the rebar, is 1

3 4

that correct?

5 I didn't understand you.

6 MR. HOU:

This is for tension on the rebar.

7 Yes, sir.

~

8 MR. HOU:

But this is anchor plate.

9 MR. THOMPSON:

It can't be

.g-gsaidit is a 10 square member.

11 N'

M3 3 this square member -- we are having t

12 a little difference of opinion here.

We did find an A588 13 material which was used as an anchor plate to the ends of 14 rebar,. and these anchor plates were anywhere from 12 15 inches square to somewhat larger.

They varied in size.

16 It was just a single piece of plate with a hole cut in the 17 middle.

It was slipped over the rebar and a Cadweld i

se then the Cadweld joint was sleeve was gack-welded ~ to it, 18 19 made.

Those were what they call anchors for the ends of 20 rebar, which were not attached to the penetration 21 assemblies.

These were later encased in concrete.

Is 22 that what you are referring to?

23 Encased in concrete?

I am not 24 sure if we are talking about the'same member or not.

25 MR. THOMPSON:

These plates had no welding on.

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1 They were square pieces of material.

When I say "no 2

welding," I mean they were not made of several members 3

welded together.

9 4

This is a fabricated member mad e 5

out of several pieces of plate.

6 MR. THOMPSON:

Do you have a drawing that you 7

could reference for us?

8 No.

It is made out of about 12 9

pieces of plate.

10 MR. THOMPSON:

12 pieces, boy.

Where the welds were made holding 11 e

12 the member together is where it started tearing, coming 13, apart.

14 MR. THOMPSON:

Were these welds do you know 15 whether the welds were either all fillet welds or 16 primarily fillet weld or groove welds?

lh The welds at the assembly itself 18 are full penetration welds.

They were made in such a 19 manner that they pulled on the plate in the Z direction, 20 and that is what started pulling it apart.

That is what 21 showed the tendency to laminar tearing.

22 MR. THOMPSON:

Do you happen to know who 23 fabricated that' structure?

Was that fabricated by an

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24 outside vendor?

i 25 It was fabricated by an outside m;, c.

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2 4

. No, sir, I do not.

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MR. THOMPSON:

At this moment I have no further questions to ask[ [

~ I don't know what 6

to look at now.

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7

.We did not look at this type of a structure at all.

-ti 8

MR. POSLUSNY:

Would it be helpful -- how would 4

9 you be able to find it without any further information?

10 MR. THOMPSON:

All I can do is look for 11 something else that.is associated with the main steam 12 penetration assembly what is not a square structure.

. _;5F Let me.tell you that it is about a 13 14 3-foot square.

The plate itself is an I-shaped member.

15 It is about 6 to 8 inches wide, as I remember.

16 MR. THOMPSON:

Through and up and over?

17 J

fYes, sir.

They started up, are i

18 penetrated, and they continued on up.

This member is made I

19 to connect ^ where those bars are cut.

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20 MR. THOMPSON:

Was this associated perhaps. with l

8 21 the George Washington bridge?

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.i 22 that?

I 23 No, sir.

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24 MR. THOMPSON:

Then we will forget that.

I'm 25 trying to get th e structure.

I don't know where it is e

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located.

I don't know where it is.

2 MR. HOU:

According to the drawing, all those 3

penetrations appear to be pipe-shaped.

We are going to 4

look more.

If we are not able to find any ' penetration l.

5

' assembly and a square plate with it, then maybe th e square 6

plate is not used for the penetration.

We --

7 I know it was for penetration.

8 MR. HOU:

You know that the square plate is for 9

the penetration?

gd..jd.a,m;Ne[ Yes,

sir.

I saw it.

10 c

11 MR. HOU:

How do we know this?

How do we know 12 it is not a square plate but used for attaching the rebar?

13' If not, is for the penetration.

Also, the material appear 14 to be th e same materials you called as A588.

So at this 15 moment I feel maybe to yourself, the square plate is for 16, the penetration, but maybe it is just for attachment of rebar 17 at the anchor plate.

18 These anchor plates, there is no concern.

That

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19 was the subject of compression instead of tension.

,M7 No.

This was attached to number 20 i.

'?

21 18 rebar at the top, and 3 inches further down on the -- 3

..f 22 feet, pardon me, further down on the assembly, number 18 1

23 rebar were attached to the bottom of this fabricated i

f 24 member.

25 MR. HOU:

In that case, that means very likely 1

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1 this one is at the anchor of the rebar, so is not for i-l 2

penetration.

Is anchor plate for rebar.

+

3 MR. THOMPSON:

There is just one thing I am

-1 4

still confused on on this structure you are describing.

~ ~i i

5 You said it was both -a square assembly, built like a 6

square about 3 feet square out of maybe a dozen pieces of P

7 plate, but you also mentinned it was an I-shaped member.

8 Did you mean that you had built-up sections of I-beams 9

that were welded together in the form of a square, or do 10 you mean that when the square was completed, if you look ed 11 at th e cross section of it, it was an I-beam?

12 No, sir, it is more or less an 13 I-beam section built up into the form of a square.

14' MR. THOMPSON:

If I took this square and sliced

- 15 through one side of the square and looked at that cut edge, 16 is that the I-beam shape looking at the cut edge?

17 The I-beam shape 'would be if you 18 made a horizontal cut through the member and looked at the 19 end section.

20 MR. THOMPSON:

Okay.

So it sounds to me like 21 you are describing something that was fabricated by 22 welding into I-beam shapes, and then the I-beam sections 4

l 23 were welded to form a square.

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24 Yes, sir.

l 25 MR. THOMPSON:

And you said the I-beam sections i

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were about 6 inches wide,.I believe?

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I said as I remember.

I 3

MR. THOMPSON:

Right.

Okay.

Let's see if I had 4

i l

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4 any other questions.

t 5

Lid you see the piping through these, or were l

6 these just being installed before the pipes were there?

They were being installed before 7

r 8

the pipes were there.

9 MR. THOMPSON:

I see.

Okay.

^

10 They were just starting up with 4..

11 the containment wall when thes e were installed.

12, MR. THOMPSON:

So this goes through the 13 containment wall, then?

14 g!&h5GMM Yes, sir.

15 MR. THOMPSON:

And by " containment wall" we are 16

. talking the concrete structure?

17 Y es, sir.

18 MR. THOMPSON:

You said they are 3 feet in 4

19 diameter.

I don'.t' suppose you knew the size of the pipe j

20 that was supposed to go through them?

21 No, sir, I don't.

l, 22 MR. THOMP SOtJ :

Okay.

I can't help any further.

>l 23 Those are all the questions I have.

i 24 MR. POSLUSNY:

There is no.value in talking-25 about our findings.

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MR. THOMPSON:

No.

talking about a piece 2

of hardware we haven't even found.

-1

{

3 (Discussion off the record. )

4 MR. POSLUSNY:

we are going to have.

1 i

5 to check this out.

We will have to get back with you in l

6 the future.

7 If I can be of any more help to 8

you in describing it, I will say it is on the west side of 9

the containment building.

It goes from the containment 10 building to the turbine building.

11 MR. THOMPSON:

Okay.

This went. from the west 12 side of the containment building to the turbine building.

13 Do you know whether that is unit 1 or unit 2?

h g.Q fg g It was the first unit built, 14 15 whichever one that is.

16 MR. THOMPSON:

Turbine build'ing of unit 1.

All

~

- right.

That might help us a little further.

17 1

18 MR. POSLUSNY:

Just in case we need to do this, 19 would you be available to show it to us on the site?

20 Yes, sir.

21 MR. POSLUSNY:

Okay.

So you wouldn't have a 22 problem with doing that?

j' 23 No, sir.

cl 24 MR. POSLUSNY:

I want to thank you for your time.

25 As I said, we will look into this an'd get back to you and N

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1 appreciate your help in clarifying this.

I would like to ij 2

go off the record right now.

3 (Discussion of f the record. )

1 l

4 MR. POSLUSNY:

Thank you very much.

Thank you

1 5

for your time.

6 (Whereupon, at 10:17 a.m.,

the interview was i.

7 concluded.)

8 9

10 11 12 i

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e CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER

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i This is to. certify that the attached proceedings before t

i the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMP.ISSION in the 1

i matter od:

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+

f a

NAME OF PROCEIDING: COMANCIIE PEAK TECHNICAL REVIEW TEA!i FEEDBACK INTERVIEW OF l

1 TELTPHONE CONFERENCE CALL DOCKI"' NO. :

4 1

PLACI:

WASHINGTON, D.

C.

DATI:

THURSDAY, MAY 2, 1385 1

s were-held as ka-=d-appears, and that this is the criginal-I, transcript thereof fc:

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    1. 'e of the United States Nuclear

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Regulatory Cv-dssicn.

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Rebecca E.

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i Official Reporter Ace-Eederal Reporters, Inc.

Reporter's Affiliatien l

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