ML032890672
| ML032890672 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Davis Besse  |
| Issue date: | 09/10/2003 |
| From: | NRC/RGN-III |
| To: | |
| References | |
| Download: ML032890672 (37) | |
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1 1
2 3 PUBLIC MEETING 4
Between U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 0350 Panel 5 and FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Company 6
7 Meeting held on Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 7:00 p.m. at Oak Harbor High School, Oak Harbor, 8 Ohio, taken by me, Marlene S. Lewis, Stenotype Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of 9 Ohio.
10 11 -----
12 13 PANEL MEMBERS PRESENT:
14 U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 15 John (Jack Grobe), Chairman for 0350 Panel 16 Davis-Besse facility 17 David Passehl, Project Engineer, NRC, Region III 18 William Ruland, Vice Chairman, MC IMC 0350 Panel 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
2 1 MR. PASSEHL: Okay, welcome. We 2 want to get started. Welcome to members of the 3 public for coming to our meeting this evening.
4 Im Dave Passehl, the Project Engineer at the 5 NRC Region III office. I work for Christine Lipa, 6 who is in charge of the Inspection Program for 7 Davis-Besse. She cant be here tonight due to other 8 commitments.
9 We had a business meeting during the day 10 today, and the purpose of tonights meeting is to 11 inform members of the public what we discussed during 12 the business meeting and also to give you an 13 opportunity to ask questions and for us to hear 14 comments.
15 Before we get started, I want to mention 16 theres copies of the August edition of the monthly 17 newsletter and copies of slides from todays meeting 18 in the foyer. The newsletter provides background 19 information, discusses current findings and NRC 20 activities. One correction to the newsletter, it 21 states that the next 0350 public meeting, two p.m.
22 meeting, will be held here. Thats incorrect. It 23 will be held at Camp Perry on October 7th.
24 Also in the foyer, theres public meeting 25 feedback forms which we use to get feedback from MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
3 1 people to learn about aspects of the meeting that we 2 can improve on.
3 Were having the meeting transcribed today by 4 Marlene Lewis, and shell maintain a record of the 5 meeting, and a transcription will be available on our 6 web page usually in about three to four weeks.
7 What Id like to do is start off with some 8 introductions for the NRC folks that are here. To my 9 left is Jack Grobe --
10 MR. GROBE: (Indicating).
11 MR. PASSEHL: -- Senior Manager in 12 the NRC Region III office in Lisle, Illinois, and 13 hes the Chairman of the Davis-Besse oversight panel.
14 To his left is Bill Ruland. Hes a Senior 15 Manager, and hes the Vice Chairman of the Oversight 16 Panel. Bills position is Director, Project 17 Director at III in a division of Licensing Project 18 Management. Is Jon here?
19 MR. GROBE: (Indicating).
20 MR. PASSEHL: Jon Hopkins.
21 MR. HOPKINS: (Indicating).
22 MR. PASSEHL: Hes NRR Project 23 Manager for the Davis-Besse facility.
24 And we have Jan Strasma --
25 MR. STRASMA: (Indicating).
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
4 1 MR. PASSEHL: -- our Region III 2 Public Affairs Officer here tonight.
3 MR. GROBE: And Roland, 4 (indicating).
5 MR. PASSEHL: Oh, Im sorry, and 6 Roland Lickus --
7 MR. LICKUS: (Indicating).
8 MR. PASSEHL: -- our State and 9 Government Liaison Affairs Officer from the Region is 10 also here.
11 Okay, Bill Ruland will present a summary of 12 what was discussed during the business portion of the 13 meeting, and then well go ahead and turn it over to 14 hear comments and answer questions.
15 MR. GROBE: Did you introduce 16 Monica?
17 MR. RULAND: Yeah, introduce 18 Monica.
19 MR. PASSEHL: Im sorry, I wanted to 20 introduce Monica Salter-Williams. Shes the third 21 Resident Inspector at Davis-Besse. Most plants in 22 the country have two Resident Inspectors; 23 Davis-Besse, because of a lot of work were doing and 24 the oversight of the plant, we have a third Resident 25 Inspector and -- did you want to talk a little bit MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
5 1 about her background?
2 MR. GROBE: Sure. Ill tell you a 3 little bit about Monica. As Dave indicated, we now 4 have three fully qualified Resident Inspectors at 5 Davis-Besse. She was selected for this job a couple 6 of months ago and just reported on Monday. She and 7 her husband and five-year-old daughter are currently 8 in temporary quarters, but will shortly be moving 9 into a home in the area, and Monica comes to us from 10 our Region I office, which is in Philadelphia, 11 Pennsylvania. Shes got a Bachelors degree in 12 chemistry from an esteemed university in Georgia, and 13 then sought a Masters degree in Nuclear Engineering 14 from Pennsylvania State University, was an engineer 15 at the Three Mile Island plant in Pennsylvania for a 16 couple of years and then took a job as an engineer 17 with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in Region I 18 and received her training and qualification in Region 19 I, and they were upset to let her go, but we posted 20 our third resident slot, and Monica applied, and is 21 an outstanding candidate. Were really glad to have 22 her on our team at Davis-Besse, so she and Chris 23 Thomas and -- my goodness, Jack Rutkowski, are the 24 three Residents at the site, that theyre there every 25 day inspecting the activities at Davis-Besse.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
6 1 Bill, why dont you summarize the afternoon 2 meeting a little bit?
3 MR. RULAND: Okay, thank you, Jack.
4 Initially, Dave Passehl started our meeting off and 5 we discussed the last meeting discussions basically.
6 We reviewed significant NRC activities that 7 had gone on this past month. We closed two restart 8 checklist items; one on the emergency sump in 9 containment and a license amendment of high and low 10 pressure injection system where certain surveillance 11 requirements were relocated to the updated safety 12 analysis report.
13 We also discussed a CAL update. We 14 mentioned also that we did two exit interviews on the 15 Corrective Action Team inspections and the System 16 Health Inspections. Those internal exit meetings 17 were conducted yesterday, and after regional 18 management and 0350 panel reviews the results of 19 those exits, the reports will be issued and whatever 20 action that were going to need to take, if any, will 21 come out of that.
22 In addition, we listed some upcoming NRC 23 activities. As you might be aware, the licensee, 24 FENOC, is pressurizing their reactor coolant system, 25 and we have an upper -- upper under vessel head MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
7 1 inspection planned. We have a planned public 2 meeting October 1st in the regional office in Lisle 3 on safety culture. The -- our inspection for 4 following up on what FENOC is doing on incomplete and 5 inaccurate documents, that will be going -- well 6 probably do that inspection starting the end of this 7 month, and were also making plans for the Restart 8 Assessment Team Inspection, and so we basically 9 listed those upcoming NRC activities.
10 FENOC, Lew Myers, listed a number of things 11 that theyre planning on doing to make sure that, 12 among other things -- well, excuse me for a second.
13 What theyre doing, they described the plant response 14 to the loss of the transmission grid. In that 15 response, they stated that all equipment operated as 16 designed.
17 Later on in the meeting we found out that the 18 containment air coolers, apparently, there might have 19 been some anomalies associated with the containment 20 air coolers, and that was also discussed later in the 21 meeting.
22 We discussed -- the licensee discussed their 23 NOP test, the Normal Operating Pressure Test 24 preparations, and people, plant and processes that 25 theyre going to examine during this test.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
8 1 They discussed their expectations for people 2 and division and management responsibilities. They 3 discussed their inspection teams, that theyve 4 trained those inspection teams for this NOP test.
5 They have over a thousand visual inspections planned.
6 They -- and they continued to discuss their 7 plans for both contingencies and post-maintenance and 8 modifications testing associated with that test.
9 Theres a number of things they listed that 10 the NOP test is to accomplish. Its to test safety 11 equipment with a focus on important -- important 12 components. Theyre going to examine -- theyre 13 going to use cameras stationed underneath the reactor 14 vessel to monitor for leakage, and theyre going to 15 specifically monitor, like I said, over a thousand 16 components, or a thousand items, including the 17 reactor coolant pump seals in the reactor vessel 18 head.
19 In addition, they gave a list of what they 20 believe were accomplishments that they have had 21 throughout this outage in this long shutdown, and 22 basically listed mostly hardware corrections and 23 additions that theyve made to increase margin during 24 the shutdown.
25 They discussed several technical issues with MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
9 1 us. The first one was the HPI pumps where they said 2 that the final qualification testing started 3 basically today, will go on for 21 days.
4 In addition, they finalized the design in the 5 sump, or the debris that this -- the pumps are going 6 to have to pump in containment, and as a result of 7 our learning that, were planning to have a meeting 8 with them to discuss the results of what their design 9 is and their testing. That meeting will be planned 10 for headquarters, but it has not yet been scheduled.
11 Jim Powers also discussed the electrical 12 distribution system, the activities theyve done, 13 that their analysis is complete and that the first 14 mode 4 and 3 Mods were done and the second mode 3 15 and 4 Mods have been at least identified.
16 They further stated that contrary to some 17 previous indications, no license amendment was going 18 to be required for the second mode -- Mode 3 and 4.
19 They also discussed the containment air 20 coolers and the damage that the valves assemblies had 21 incurred as a result of the loss of offsite power 22 that happened at -- well, I think that all of you 23 know that it happened, so we discussed that and that 24 probably got the most lively exchange that we had, 25 trying to understand, you know, exactly what the MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
10 1 licensee, FENOC, was going to do going forward. I 2 dont think we -- we didnt get any real big issues 3 associated with that, but just an increased 4 understanding of where FENOC was headed on that.
5 Rick Dame discussed the Operational Readiness 6 Assessment Plan, and he pointed out, as we knew that 7 this was part of the restart checklist. Theyre 8 going to do a number of assessments during this NOP 9 test during these upcoming seven days.
10 In addition, if -- and those assessments are 11 basically focused on examining what operators and 12 plant management and staff, how they respond to 13 emerging issues, how they handle the plant 14 evolutions, and we also learned that if they dont 15 have enough evolutions, dont have enough emerging 16 issues, they plan on conducting exercises to test the 17 plant and test plant management of how they deal with 18 those issues. We also discussed how theyre going 19 to manage those -- manage those exercises to minimize 20 any potential negative impact on the actual 21 operations of the plant.
22 Along those lines, they also discussed that 23 the -- theyre going to have a number of assessments, 24 several assessment teams, one an internal assessment 25 team with FENOC folks, both line management, people MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
11 1 from Perry, Beaver Valley.
2 In addition, they were going to have external 3 independent assessors on site during that week in 4 addition to quality assurance, the quality assessment 5 organization was also -- all these three groups are 6 going to be performing assessments of the approach to 7 and the conduct of the NOP test.
8 During that -- after that particular 9 presentation on the NOP test, Jack remarked that it 10 sounded like they had a solid plan.
11 Steve Loehlein discussed the QA Oversight and 12 what theyre doing both to examine the corrective 13 action review, the corrective action review theyre 14 doing, and discussed how they plan on doing 15 assessment of restart activities.
16 Finally, Lew Myers discussed the actions that 17 he believed his company was putting in place to 18 anchor long-term improvements and a number of things 19 he listed was the new organization, improvements in 20 the safety margin that have been made by equipment 21 addition or reconditioning, new objectives and 22 measures that have been established, improvements in 23 personal performance and several other -- several 24 other items, and thats basically my summary of what 25 happened at the meeting.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
12 1 MR. GROBE: Okay, very good.
2 Thanks, Bill. At this point wed like to open it up 3 to any questions or comments. I know that its 4 sometimes difficult to keep a broad perspective on 5 whats going on, so were eager to help you 6 understand whats going on from the standpoint of the 7 NRC oversight at Davis-Besse, as well as clarify for 8 you activities that are going on that the utility has 9 underway and respond to any concerns or questions you 10 have, so, please, come forward, sign your name and 11 ask us your question. Who has a question?
12 MR. DUSSEL: (Indicating).
13 MR. GROBE: Yes, sir.
14 MR. DUSSEL: Maybe you could touch 15 base on --
16 MR. GROBE: Why dont you come up 17 to the microphone, tell us your name, and sign in, 18 and then go ahead.
19 MR. DUSSEL: My name is Tim Dussel.
20 Im a local citizen, and I would like to know if 21 theres been any information brought out on how 22 FirstEnergy is coming with the outside consultants 23 that theyve hired to see how the safety culture is 24 coming? Theres been very little said on any of 25 that, and that was supposed to have been like an MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
13 1 independent group that came in that was supposed to 2 be looking at how things were going.
3 MR. GROBE: Yeah, thats an 4 excellent question. FirstEnergy conducted both 5 internal and external assessments of safety culture, 6 and theyre continuing to conduct internal 7 assessments as they continue to address areas of 8 weakness. The external assessment was conducted 9 under Dr. Sonia Haber, which weve -- shes appeared 10 at some of our meetings and provided insights into 11 what she is doing. The results of her assessment 12 are available publicly. Theyre on our Web site.
13 If you dont have access, wed be glad to get you a 14 copy of that report if youre interested. She 15 identified several areas of strength and several 16 opportunities for continued improvement at 17 FirstEnergy, and theyre proceeding with their 18 management human performance improvement plan to 19 address issues that they have identified as well as 20 issues that Dr. Habers team identified. We have a 21 public meeting scheduled for October 1st, and I 22 appreciate you asking this question because it gives 23 me an opportunity to share with you that we dont 24 like having meetings away from the immediate vicinity 25 of the plant here, at the high school or over at Camp MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
14 1 Perry, because it makes it more difficult for you 2 folks to get involved in those meetings. So what we 3 would do is we put together both a telephone as well 4 as a video teleconferencing link and free of 5 charge -- free to you, you can dial in and be 6 connected to that meeting and listen to the business 7 portion of the meeting if youre interested and also 8 participate in the question and answer session 9 afterwards, and thats been very effective for past 10 meetings that weve had to conduct either in Chicago, 11 the Region III office, or in Washington at the 12 headquarters offices, so those meetings that were 13 going to be conducting outside of the immediate area 14 here, well have those kinds of access via the 15 telephone link if youre unable to travel to the 16 Windy City or down to our nations Capitol, but Dr.
17 Habers report is complete. Its publicly available 18 and FirstEnergy is addressing those issues, and they 19 will be discussing not only the actions theyve taken 20 to date, and the assessments theyre doing to date, 21 also the assessments theyre going to continue to do 22 between now and the time they request restart, but 23 also their long-term improvement initiatives in 24 safety culture and their long-term plans for 25 assessing those improvements, and by long-term, I MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
15 1 mean over the next several years, including how 2 theyre going to share the results of those 3 assessments publicly, so thats the purpose of the 4 October 1st meeting. Its a continuing dialogue of 5 the dialogue weve been having over several of our 6 meetings in the safety culture area. Todays 7 presentation, this afternoon, the last section of 8 that presentation -- and Im not sure, were there 9 additional copies of the licensees slides out on the 10 table?
11 MS. KELLER: Yes.
12 MR. GROBE: There were?
13 MS. KELLER: Yes.
14 MR. GROBE: If there are, its the 15 last four or five pages of their presentation.
16 Theyre kind of an indicator of those activities that 17 they have done. As Bill articulated, Lew described 18 actions that theyve taken to anchor -- the 19 phraseology he used was to anchor the improvements 20 going forward and allow continued improvement so you 21 can get a snapshot of the kinds of things were going 22 to be talking about in much more detail on October 23 1st.
24 MR. DUSSEL: Also, I read an 25 article and have heard on the news and other things, MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
16 1 the 1986 incident where, I forget what the amount 2 FirstEnergy was fined, but it was dropped by almost 3 50% because FirstEnergy was doing such a good job on 4 their corrosion program, and here we are 14 years 5 later, same circumstance basically. Id like to 6 know what the NRC, how they feel they handled the 86 7 and what they plan on doing with this incident as far 8 as fines or people being held accountable.
9 MR. GROBE: Right.
10 MR. DUSSEL: It seems like we 11 should learn from history, and I dont think someone 12 is doing a real good job of it.
13 MR. GROBE: The situation that 14 occurred in the mid 80s didnt have anything to do 15 with boric acid corrosion, and there was a protracted 16 shutdown of the plant, and the plant restarted after 17 that, but the -- the area that you started asking 18 questions about is really what I view as the area 19 that will ensure that there is no recurrence of this 20 kind of a situation.
21 The NRC oversight panel for Davis-Besse has 22 two responsibilities. One is to define what is 23 necessary prior to restart, to evaluate the 24 licensees accomplishments of those activities that 25 are required and to share all that information MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
17 1 publicly.
2 In addition to that, were responsible prior 3 to recommending restart of the plant -- the panel 4 doesnt actually approve restart, we make a 5 recommendation to our bosses, Jim Caldwell in Region 6 III and Jim Dyer in NRR and Bill Travers, who is the 7 head of the Agency and the final decision rests will 8 Jim Caldwell, on the advice of Jim Dyer and Bill 9 Travers, but the other half of our responsibility is 10 to assess not only will the plant be able to restart 11 safely, but will it be able to operate into the 12 future safely, and the key to that is the management 13 human performance area, and that is establishing the 14 right expectations of the standards in the safety 15 culture area as well as management organizational 16 effectiveness, setting clear expectations for staff 17 and holding people accountable to those.
18 With respect to the past, the boric acid 19 corrosion with the reactor head -- excuse me, the 20 Company did comprehensive investigation of that and 21 took a large number of personal actions including 22 terminations and demotions and reassignments of those 23 people who they believe didnt meet their 24 expectations.
25 The NRC likewise has an investigation ongoing MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
18 1 looking into those issues. No enforcement action 2 will likely be taken until the completion of all 3 those investigative activities we have underway.
4 Our office of investigation has regular briefing, the 5 oversight panel as well as Senior Management with the 6 Region in headquarters on their progress on the 7 investigation. And as that investigation evolves, if 8 it appears that theres a need for immediate 9 enforcement action, we would take that. Otherwise, 10 well wait until the completion of that investigation 11 before enforcement action will be taken.
12 MR. DUSSEL: Well, like I say, its 13 been well over a year since all this took place, and 14 I dont understand -- I realize you want to change 15 the rules and have different inspections and you have 16 oversight committees and all this, but all the stuff 17 that was put in place before any of this happened, 18 all the checks and balances, I still am completely 19 amazed at how this could happen. Im totally 20 amazed, and I dont care how many more rules and how 21 much more paperwork you make, thats not going to 22 change anything if no one is held responsible and no 23 one is doing their job. That really bothers me, and 24 I dont see anything thats really being changed on 25 that. I see a lot of different ideas, different MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
19 1 rules and different titles and different 2 classifications, but nothings really has been 3 addressed on how this all took place to begin with.
4 It amazes me because there was so many checks and 5 balances that was put in place before and how did 6 this all take place?
7 MR. GROBE: Im not sure I have 8 articulated it clearly enough, but the Company has 9 taken action which resulted in termination or 10 separation of a number of individuals ranging from 11 front level engineers up through vice presidents, 12 and, in addition to that, theres a number of 13 additional individuals who were given opportunities 14 for other jobs at other locations or were demoted or 15 were counselled, so there are individuals at the 16 plant that have been held accountable by FirstEnergy, 17 and they have discussed that during these public 18 meetings. In addition to that, once we complete our 19 investigations we will hold FirstEnergy, and as 20 appropriate, individuals accountable pursuant to our 21 enforcement action.
22 MR. DUSSEL: Well, I just think it 23 would be nice if the public was informed more of what 24 was going on. Like I say, its been well over a year 25 since this has all taken place, and it just seems MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
20 1 like you just keep having more meetings and more 2 meetings, and it will all slide off the back burner 3 sooner or later.
4 MR. GROBE: Okay, appreciate your 5 comments. While the next person is approaching the 6 podium, Id just like to share a perspective with 7 you, and I would appreciate if you have a different 8 perspective that you share it either personally today 9 or you can certainly fill out a feedback form, you 10 dont even have to put a stamp on it, well receive 11 it, just drop it in the mail.
12 I have been involved in five plant recoveries 13 and restart efforts over my career, and this activity 14 has been conducted with an unprecedented amount of 15 public access to information. We publish a monthly 16 newsletter that we bring to the meeting here. We 17 also send it to Congress. We send it to State and 18 local officials and all of your media outlets, 19 newspapers and radios and things of that. We also 20 make it available on the Web site, and I think were 21 in our 13th issue this month. Theres just a 22 compendium of information in there that talks about 23 all of these subjects as well as many others.
24 In addition to that, weve conducted -- if 25 you total public meetings, briefings of State, MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
21 1 Federal and local officials, nearly a hundred 2 meetings to keep people informed on whats going on.
3 I meet with your County Administrator, and usually 4 several of your County board members on a monthly 5 basis to talk through whats going on, receive their 6 perspective and theyre able to ask me questions.
7 We meet with the State of Ohio on a quarterly 8 basis. Weve briefed the Governor. I meet with the 9 staff of your Federal elected officials, 10 representatives and the senators in Washington on a 11 regular basis, so we have attempted to be as 12 transparent as we can and provide as much public 13 information as we can, and if there is other ways 14 that we can provide -- can be more effective in 15 providing information, were all ears, because thats 16 why were here, so I look forward to any additional 17 comments on how we can do better in that regard.
18 Who would like to ask a question?
19 MR. KHAN: (Indicating).
20 MR. GROBE: Come on forward.
21 MR. KHAN: Just going back. If I 22 can just follow-up --
23 MR. GROBE: Could you tell us your 24 name and sign in, please?
25 MR. KHAN: Yes, its Ashar Khan.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
22 1 Just following up on that, when is your 2 investigation likely to be -- to get some report on 3 it, just going back to the previous guys -- the 4 critical time is coming for the start up. Can I just 5 ask, where is the investigation reporting in terms of 6 its readiness?
7 MR. GROBE: Investigations are a 8 lot like fine wine. Theyre not ready until they 9 are ready. The investigations have been ongoing for 10 quite awhile. It was initiated, I believe, last 11 April -- not last April, April of 2000 2002, and there has 12 been an extraordinary amount of evidence evaluated 13 and reviewed. The investigation is in its final 14 stages. I cant project when it will be completed, 15 but what I can tell you is that the Oversight Panel 16 has received regular briefings from the 17 investigators. The folks that are working for the 18 Oversight Panel, accomplishing reviews and activities 19 for us have been reviewing the evidence and receiving 20 briefings from the investigative team to ensure that 21 if there is any immediate safety issues that are 22 evolving from that investigation, that they will be 23 addressed before restart.
24 With respect to public access to the 25 investigation, the NRC doesnt have the authority to MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
23 1 prosecute individuals. We have a relationship with 2 the Department of Justice, so before anything can be 3 released publicly, the process would have to go 4 through its entire set of paces, which would include 5 completion of the investigation. If there is any 6 indication of wrongdoing, deliberate or willful 7 violations of our requirements, it has criminal 8 sanctions as well as civil sanctions associated with 9 them, so an individual could be held criminally 10 responsible for acts of deliberate violation 11 requirements. Our Office of Investigation has a 12 relationship with the Department of Justice. If that 13 were the case, if that was the conclusion of the 14 investigation, they would brief the Department of 15 Justice, the Department of Justice would evaluate the 16 case and determine whether its appropriate to 17 proceed to a Grand Jury. Because, Im sure you can 18 appreciate -- because of all of that, the release of 19 any information is completely inappropriate, and so 20 what -- the message you need to take away from this 21 is that we are actively engaged in evaluating the 22 ongoing investigation and the information theyre 23 developing, and if there is anything relevant to the 24 safe restart of this plant, we will address that 25 prior to the restart of the plant.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
24 1 MR. KHAN: I guess just judging 2 from your tone and the way you answered the question, 3 youve already taken, you know, changes in management 4 and terminating people and everything and from where 5 the investigation report might be in terms of, you 6 know, the data gathering and assessment, I think, 7 there is -- it seems like there is nothing in the 8 investigation report, it seems like til this present 9 time, which would be in any way be more harmful or in 10 any way stop the process of the restart, otherwise 11 you would have addressed it with current management.
12 MR. GROBE: I think what you need 13 to appreciate is that before we would make a restart 14 decision, those issues, if they exist, would be 15 addressed. I dont want you to draw any conclusions 16 from what Im saying because thats not appropriate.
17 Prior to any kind of restart decision, which isnt 18 happening today or tomorrow or next week, these 19 issues will be appropriately addressed if there are 20 any.
21 MR. KHAN: Second, if I can go to 22 your safety culture test, and we appreciate the NRC 23 being focused on it, but I wanted to get a view, 24 cause safety culture, you know, I guess the method 25 and methodology being inculcated in towards the MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
25 1 workers and management can only be witnessed as seen 2 over a period of time to assess whether it is working 3 or not, and as these reports just came out about, 4 what was it, two months ago or three months ago when 5 the independent assessment report came out in May, if 6 Im right, May or June time period, what is the 7 thesis or what is the working analysis by you guys?
8 What period do you have to observe that those things 9 have been inculcated within the work force and 10 management and it is working in a manner that you 11 would feel comfortable with and -- because its 12 basically a timing issue, the way I look at it, 13 because observations and timing of each particular 14 worker is really appreciated. If we can get a little 15 bit more feedback from you guys as to what time frame 16 you look at. You must have time frame to look over 17 assessment and observations.
18 MR. GROBE: Its an excellent 19 question. The NRC does not have any requirements, 20 any direct requirements, that address safety culture.
21 We have performance expectations that we expect our 22 licensees to meet. Some of those performance 23 expectations include not retaliating against 24 individuals for raising concerns. We have a 25 specific requirement in that area. Theres other MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
26 1 requirements in our regulations that address the need 2 for an effective Corrective Action Program.
3 In addition, the Commission has established 4 some policy statements with respect to safety 5 culture, but we dont have an inspection program per 6 se on safety culture. The way the NRC has 7 approached regulatory oversight of nuclear power 8 plants in the United States is what we call 9 performance based. We look at the safety of the 10 plant, and then if theres a significant performance 11 deficiency in the safety of the plant we make sure 12 that the root causes of that issue are addressed and 13 ensure that significant issues dont recur, and 14 thats what this panel is all about. What happened 15 at Davis-Besse is very rare in the nuclear industry 16 in the United States, and this is -- in the last five 17 years, this is the only plant that has gotten into a 18 situation where it has needed an oversight panel of 19 this nature, so the first assessment -- youve asked 20 a number of really good questions, the first 21 assessment that was done was completed, I believe, 22 was in August of 2002. That assessment in that 23 particular area of safety culture has been repeated 24 and corrective actions were initiated. Youre 25 absolutely right, cultural issues take time to MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
27 1 change, and that same assessment approach was 2 repeated in the spring of this year, and this was all 3 reported in our public meetings, and you can find it 4 on the Web site, and there were significant 5 improvements in all areas of that specific activity.
6 In addition to that, the external safety 7 culture assessment was conducted in February of this 8 year, so that was about seven months ago, and that 9 was after the Company had initiated -- they have a 10 return to service plan, they call it a return to 11 service plan which has seven building blocks. One 12 of those building blocks is management human 13 performance, so it was clear from the Companys 14 perspective right at the beginning that they had some 15 management organizational problems and they had some 16 human performance problems both at the employee 17 level, the supervisor level and management level.
18 Theyve -- that was part of their building blocks and 19 return to service plan right from the start, and they 20 performed a number of root cause assessments, so this 21 has been an ongoing activity for the better part of 22 probably 15 or 16 months. I do not expect that this 23 is going to be a -- whats commonly referred to in a 24 business vernacular as a high performing organization 25 at the time of restart. Our standard is that its MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
28 1 good enough that we believe it will operate safely, 2 but we also believe that there will need to be 3 continuing improvements after restart in this area to 4 ensure -- you used the word inculcate, thats a good 5 word. Lew Myers used the word anchored changes, and 6 thats also another good word, but the goal is to 7 ensure that these issues are addressed and not only 8 addressed at the time of restart, but continuing on 9 in the future, so theres two parts of the meeting on 10 October 1st. The first part is dealing with 11 activities that have occurred in the past, their 12 assessments in the past and what theyre planning on 13 doing prior to requesting a restart authorization 14 from us, and then going in the future, what they plan 15 on doing continuing into the future, how theyre 16 going to assess activities going into the future, 17 using inside assessments on their quality assurance 18 organization, as well as external assessments, and 19 then how theyre going to communicate those 20 assessments and their progress publicly. The panel 21 will stay in existence long after restart and will 22 continue to monitor performance in areas just like 23 this one and will continue to have public meetings to 24 discuss this. That was kind of a long-winded 25 answer. Did I --
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
29 1 MR. KHAN: So I guess what Im 2 getting is that there have been improvements made, 3 seems like those improvements are satisfactory. You 4 expect to continue to monitor safety culture even 5 after the start date going forward?
6 MR. GROBE: Yeah, and you took 7 that a little further I think than what I said. We 8 have an inspection team thats ongoing right now.
9 We call it our management human performance 10 inspection, and it includes experts from our 11 headquarters office in safety culture, as well as 12 safety conscious work environment.
13 In addition, they are experts from outside 14 the industry who have years of experience of 15 successful operation of nuclear power plants, as well 16 as specific experience in recovering plants that had 17 safety culture problems. These are two retired 18 senior executives from the nuclear industry that are 19 experts in this area. That inspection team is 20 ongoing, and we have not yet concluded that they have 21 made sufficient progress, so thats -- at the October 22 1 meeting were going to receive FirstEnergys 23 assessment of where they think they are and that 24 inspection will continue beyond October 1.
25 MR. KHAN: So these two MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
30 1 individuals, they wouldnt be there at the October 2 1st meeting, will they, to present any of their 3 analysis --
4 MR. GROBE: No.
5 MR. KHAN: -- or when can we 6 expect --
7 MR. GROBE: No, we will not be 8 discussing inspection results at that meeting.
9 Thats a meeting for FirstEnergy to tell us what they 10 think.
11 MR. KHAN: Okay.
12 MR. GROBE: And for us to question 13 them.
14 MR. KHAN: When can we get some 15 views from those two guys that you mentioned?
16 MR. GROBE: Well, its not just 17 those two guys. Let me give you a little more 18 detail. I mean, they are two very important people 19 cause they give the inspection team breath and depth 20 of experience. We have an individual from our 21 Office of Research who has a Ph.D. in Industrial 22 Psychology and has about 25 years of experience in 23 the safety culture area.
24 We have two other individuals from the Office 25 of Nuclear Reactor Regulation who are experts in MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
31 1 human performance and in organizational 2 effectiveness.
3 In addition, we have an individual from the 4 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation who has both NRC 5 and industry experience in safety conscious work 6 environment, and shes back with us again, and shes 7 on this team. The team is being led by the Senior 8 Engineer from our Region III office who has 30 years 9 of experience in nuclear plant operations and 10 regulatory oversight.
11 In addition to that, these two individuals 12 broaden the team with the industry executive 13 experience, so I dont want you to look at this as a 14 two person inspection.
15 MR. KHAN: Okay.
16 MR. GROBE: Its a very broad and 17 balanced inspection team with a wealth of experience.
18 I anticipate that well be having a public dialogue 19 on the results of that inspection when its 20 completed, and that will be prior to restart.
21 MR. KHAN: Okay. So that we 22 should expect sometime in October?
23 MR. GROBE: No, you should expect 24 it before restart.
25 MR. KHAN: Before restart.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
32 1 Okay. I appreciate that.
2 MR. GROBE: Thank you. You folks 3 are asking excellent questions. I know there is 4 another question out there.
5 (BRIEF PAUSE).
6 Let me make a couple of comments about some 7 upcoming activities that Bill highlighted but just 8 reinforce those. We have talked a lot about safety 9 culture tonight, and we have that meeting on October 10 1st. Youre certainly welcome to participate in that 11 meeting by telephone or in person. Chicago is a 12 lovely place.
13 The -- in addition to that, Bill mentioned 14 that we had exit meetings on two very important 15 inspections; one is the System Health inspection.
16 Thats looking at the equipment, the hardware in the 17 plant, and the other one was the Corrective Action 18 Team inspection, thats looking at the effectiveness 19 of the Corrective Action Program. We already 20 inspected the improvements that the Company was 21 making to their Corrective Action Program and 22 concluded that those improvements on paper looked 23 fine. This inspection team -- just to give you a 24 sense, it was 10 inspectors, well over 200 years of 25 experience, assessing this kind of an area of nuclear MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
33 1 plant operations. Their goal was to look at the 2 implementation and effectiveness of the Corrective 3 Action Program. Those exits -- we call it an exit, 4 thats the end of the inspection when the inspectors 5 give a final debrief of the utility on their 6 inspection findings. Those findings are 7 pre-decisional. They need to be reviewed, as Bill 8 indicated, by Regional Management, as well as 9 reviewed by the panel. I anticipate a public 10 meeting sometime in the next several weeks to discuss 11 the results of those two inspections.
12 In addition, the high pressure injection 13 pumps are a very unique problem that Davis-Besse has, 14 and theyve developed some solutions to that problem.
15 Theyre far enough along in those solutions to have 16 an effective meeting with us, and were planning a 17 public meeting to specifically discuss the details of 18 that rather unique equipment problem and how theyre 19 solving it, and we have an assessment ongoing in that 20 area also.
21 In that regard, weve had people from the 22 office that Bill works in to Alabama, the test 23 facility, where theyre testing the high pressure 24 injection pump and the modications set pump, as well 25 as an engineer and engineering supervisor from the MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
34 1 organization that Bill works for in the Washington 2 area, to the licensees contracted engineering firm 3 thats evaluating the design of those high pressure 4 injection pumps, and, so far, those evaluations are 5 going forward without any significant issues being 6 identified, but thats an activity thats also 7 ongoing, and we plan to have more trips to Alabama to 8 witness this testing as its going on over the next 9 several weeks, so theres a lot of things happening.
10 Its an exciting time.
11 Who else has questions?
12 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE).
13 (BRIEF PAUSE).
14 Well, we will be up here after the meeting, 15 and if you want to come up and ask us a question 16 personally, thats fine. We also have the feedback 17 forms in the outside vestibule here, which, if you 18 want to jot us a note, thats a freebee, just take a 19 few minutes, write us a note.
20 In addition to that, we have our monthly 21 newsletter which has some egregiously bad information 22 in it. The next public meeting is October 7th at 23 2:00 and 7:00, but its not at Oak Harbor like the 24 newsletter says. Its at Camp Perry, so join us next 25 month at Camp Perry.
MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
35 1 Also in that newsletter are included the 2 phone number and E-mail address for our Public 3 Affairs Officer, Jan Strasma, and his assistant, Vika 4 Mitlyng, and they always have access to me and the 5 staff in Region III in NRR if they cant answer your 6 question, so you have a lot of opportunities to gain 7 additional information and get your questions 8 answered if youre not one of those that likes to 9 come forward to the podium, so, with that, our last 10 call for questions.
11 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE).
12 Thank you very much for coming out this 13 evening, and, like I said, well be here for awhile 14 if you have any questions.
15 16 17 THEREUPON, the meeting was adjourned.
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900
36 1 CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF OHIO )
) ss.
3 COUNTY OF HURON )
4 I, Marlene S. Lewis, Stenotype Reporter and 5 Notary Public within and for the State aforesaid, duly commissioned and qualified, do hereby certify 6 that the foregoing, consisting of 35 pages, was taken by me in stenotype and was reduced to writing by me 7 by means of Computer-Aided Transcription; that the foregoing is a true and complete transcript of the 8 proceedings held in that room on the 10th day of September, 2003 before the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory 9 Commission.
I also further certify that I was present in 10 the room during all of the proceedings.
11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 12 and seal of office at Wakeman, Ohio this day of
, 2003.
13 14 15 Marlene S. Lewis Notary Public 16 3922 Court Road Wakeman, OH 44889 17 My commission expires 4/29/04 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MARLENE S. LEWIS & ASSOC. REPORTERS (419) 929-0505 (888) 799-3900