ML20210Q162
| ML20210Q162 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Millstone  |
| Issue date: | 07/31/1997 |
| From: | NRC |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20210Q161 | List: |
| References | |
| CON-NRC-1193 NUDOCS 9708280180 | |
| Download: ML20210Q162 (33) | |
Text
Of11cialTranscript of Proceedings NUCLEAlt itEGULATO'ItY COMMISSION
Title:
Public Meeting Cliilling EITect Docket Number: (not assigned)
Location: Rockville, Maryland Date: luly 31,1997 Work Order No.: NRC-1193 Pages 1-31 NEAL 11. Gl OSS AND CO.,INC.
Court Iteporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue,N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)234 4433 g M_ ? r l
b i t I d i s .-
D DO 05 0 245 T PDR Enclosure 3
l 1 1 Ul11TED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 +++++
4 PUBLIC MEETING S CIIILLING EFFECT 6 +++++
7 TMURSDAY 8 JULY 31, 1997 9 +++++
10 ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND 11 +++++
12 The meeting was held at One White Flint North, 13 Conference Room 12-D11,11555 Rockville Pike, at 2 : 30 p.m. ,
14 William Travers, Director, Special Projects Of fice, Of fice 15 of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
16 PANEL:
17 WILLIAM TRAVERS, Director, NRR/SPO 18 SAM COLLINS, Director, NRR 19 PilIL McKEE, NRR/SPO 20 llELEN PASTIS, NRR/SPO 21 WAYNE LANNING, NRR/SPO 22 GENE IMBRO, NRR/SPO 23 JIM LicGERMAN, Director, OE 24 JACK GOLDBERG, OGC 25 MICilAEL RAFKY, OGC O
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2 l
1 ATTEMDELt!
2 BitUCE D. KEllYON,1111ECO 3 JAKE TilAYER, NNECO 4 PATRICIA LOPTUS, NNECO 5
6 7
8 9
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3 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-8 q
Q 2 MR. TRAVERS: My name is Bill Travers, and I'm 3 the Director of NRC Special Projects Office in the Office 4 of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, and I have a few 5 introductory remarks to make about this meeting, it's 6 purpose and so forth, but I thought maybe we ought to 7 introduce ourselves very quickly.
8 I will mention, though, for the sake of people 9 who are attending this meeting, that we are transcribing 10 this meeting and an official record will be made for 11 anybody who is interested in reading what is said today.
12 MR. COLLINS: Good afternoon. My name is Sam 13 Collins, and I'm the Director of the Office of Nuclear O.
O 14 D.eactor Regulation.
15 MR. TRAVERS I thought we'd just introduce the 16 people at the table.
17 MR. GOLDBERGt I'm Jack Goldberg, the Deputy 18 Assistant General Counsel for Enforcement.
19 MR. LieGERMAN I'm Jim LieGerman, the Director 20 of the Office of Enforcement.
21 HR. RAFKY: I'm Michael Rafky, an attorney in 22 the General Counsel's Office.
23 MS. LOFTUS: Pat Lof tus, Director of Regulatory 24 Affairs.
,q 25 MR. THAYER: Jake Thayer, I'm the Officer in O
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?
I charge of Nuclear Engineering Support, NNEU.
O V 2 MR. KE11YO!1: Bruce Kenyon, President and Chief 3 Executive Officer of Northeast Nuclear.
4 MS. PASTIS: I'm llelen Pastis, Project Manager 5 for Employee Concerns.
6 MR. IMBRO: Gene Imbro, Deputy Director of 7 ICADP oversight.
8 MR. LANNING: I'm Wayne Lanning, Deputy 9 Director for Inspectionn.
10 MR. McKEE: Phil McKee, Deputy Director for 11 Licensing.
12 MR. TRAVERS: With that, let me begin. On July 13 23, 1997, Northeast Nuclear took formal disciplinary action 14 against 22 employees and indicated that the action resulted 15 from the performance of these employces while associated 16 with the Millstone Training Department.
17 Following this action, the NRC received 18 allegations from workers at Millstone who believed that the 19 particular disciplinary actions were not appropriate and 20 will it have the effect of discouraging workers from 21 ralaing safety concerns. The NRC is obviously concerned 22 about those allegations and the implication of potential 23 chilling effect to the workforce at Millstone.
24 As you are aware, the establishment and p 25 maintenance of a safety-conscious work environment, an (v)
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5 1 environment where employees feel free to raise safety O concerns to their management and to the liRC without fear of Q 2 3 retaliation, is important to the 11RC.
4 At Hillstone, historically, establishment of 5 this kind of environment has been a significant issue. In 6 fact, as a result of past problems in this and related 7 areas, the llRC issued on October 24, 1996, an order which 8 required the establishment of an independent organization 9 to oversee and help flRC evaluate 110's progress in improving 10 its safety environment and its handling of employee safety 11 concerns.
12 In a recent meeting, the independent oversight 13 organization, Little liarbor Consultants, reported to the 14 11RC that recent workforce surveys indicated an improving 15 trend in the workers' sense of the safety-conscious work 16 environment at Millstone.
17 The allegations which had been raised since 18 your July 23, 1997 disciplinary actions, however, raise 19 questions about the potential chilling effect to the 20 workforce.
21 It's important to emphasize that we appreciate 22 the need for NNECO to make legitimate nondiscriminatory 23 employment decisions. We recognize that persons who have 24 engaged in protected activities are not immune from 25 legitimate disciplinary action. Ilowever, in .1.ight of the
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6 I past significance of these issues and the current concerns ln (j 2 being raised by members of your workforce, the 11RC needs 3 today to understand what actions til1ECO has taken or plans 4 to take to minimize the potential chilling effect of your 5 recent disciplinary action.
6 In the longer-term, lusues relating to employee 7 safety concerns will continue te be evaluated by the Little e 8 !! arbor Corporation and the llRC, and are important elements 9 of our restart assessment for the Millstone units.
10 Accordingly, this meeting is not designed to 11 focus on the details or the merits of why 1111ECO took the 12 disciplinary action, so we would ask that you r2ther focus 13 your remarks on what actions you are taking to address the o
V 14 possibility of these actions creating a chilling effect 15 with the workforce. And with that, unless Sam would make 16 a few comments, I will open it up for tiortheast 11uclear.
17 HR. COLLIllS t I appreciate your effort to come 18 here on short-term. I think it is an important issue 19 outlined in our July 28 letter. I think Bill has done a 20 good job of articulating the background and why we are 21 here. And, again, I think it's important that we keep a 22 narrow focus on the greater goal rather than the internal 23 business of 11U. And with that, I think, I look forward to 24 hearing the substance of jour meeting.
n 25 I would ask -- this is a process question -- I
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7 1 have an obligation with the Chairman at around four p
g 2 o' clock, so if we are still continuing at 3:30 or so, 3 perhaps we could take a break and then come back for the 4 continuation of the meeting. That would serve my purposes, 5 if that's all right with you.
6 MR. KENYON: Certainly.
7 MR. COLLINS: Thank you.
8 HR. KENYON: Certainly, we recognize the 9 importance of having and maintaining a safety-conscious 10 work environment. As already was indicated, on July 23 we 11 found it necessary to take some significant disciplinary 12 action af fecting 22 individuals in or previously associated 13 with the training organization.
14 I think where I'd like to start -- and some of 15 this clearly is obvious -- but anytime senior management 16 takes fairly significant and fairly visible disciplinary 17 action, there are inevitable issues and concerns.
18 On the one hand, a key issue for us --
19 certainly not the only issue -- but a key issue for us was 20 management's need to set and enforce high standards.
21 I think for those of you who have been at 22 Millstone and interacted with management and our employees, 23 you are aware that ve have seven success objectives that we 24 really feel are fundamental to the recovery of the l 25 Millstone units, and the very first one on that list is m
I
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8 1 high standards and clear accountabilities. And that has --
2 as with the other success objectivos, that has boon an 3 issue at Hillstone.
4 Thus, when facts are uncovered which 5 demonstrato a substantial departure from necessary 6 standards, we have a responsibility to take appropriato 7 action. That's what wo did, and I cortainly understand 8 that today's mooting is not really to got into the basis of 9 the disciplinary actions taken. So that's what we have on 10 one hand.
11 On the other hand, taking disciplinary action, 12 however well justified, can evoxo a variety of reactions.
13 Employoos can look at it and say, well, it really wasn't 14 f air, or you're punishing good people, or you're looking at 15 the past versus today's standards, concerns that thoro 16 might be retallation against one or more individuals, you 17 know, what's the next shoo, is there more coming. And, 18 frankly, in -- and what's taking place at Millstone, wo 19 have those reactione, and others. And, certainly, we 20 recognize that at least some of those reactions can croato 21 . a chilling offect.
22 I think what compounds the situation for us is 23 that the Millstono site has a history of this being a 24 ditficult issue and, thus, thoro really is a 25 hypersensitivity in even what I would call " normal" NEAL lt. GitOSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRillERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 actions. And I think this is somewhat more than normal, 2 but a normal action can evoke a lot of concern.
3 With that as just a general background and
. 4 having concluded that disciplinary action was necessary, ;
l 5 we, the leadership team, viewed that we had a number of l 1
- 6 challenges.
7 The first challenge was to determine the 8 appropriate discipline in response to the facts developed 9 through the investigation -- and I'm not going to talk ,
10 about the basis for the discipline, but I at least want to 11 share with you a little bit concerning process.
12 A substanti .1 portion of the investigation and
. 13 the assembly of the results was done by outside counsel, so
- 14 done very independently.
15 The findings were directly presented to me, i 16 with most of the Millstone of ficers present along weigh 17 human resources and legal representation. It ultimately 18 took three meetings to deliberate, deliberate again, and 19 then deliberate again, as to are we really striking the ;
. 20 right balance regarding the discipline being taken. So my 4
21 point here is that we did give this matter very, very 22 careful consideration over a series of meetings. And I 23 made the final-decisions. That rests with me. So, that 24 was one challenge.
25 Now, having- arrived at the decisions, our O
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10 1 second challenge, recognizing the likelihood that at least n
(j 2 some would not correctly understand the actions being taken 3 and those could perceive a chilling effect. We clearly 4 wanted to communicate the need for disciplinary actions as 5 effectively as possible.
6 How, we have a handout that amplifies on some 7 of the material that I'm about to share with you -- go 8 ahead and circulate that around, Pat. Once you get it, what 9 you will see is that in Table 1 -- and there are two pages 10 to Table 1 --
we have a compilation of communication 11 actions taken associated with announcing the disciplinary 12 action and some follow-up.
13 And those communications are divided into
,m 14 several categories. One category is site, where we were 15 endeavoring to communicate to the broad majority of the 16 site population, certain communications are directed at 17 oversight, and training recognizing the special 18 sensitivities in these organizations, and there were 19 certain communications directed at one or more units 20 because employees wanted to talk some more.
21 The intent of these communications -- and 22 you'll see by the two pages in the table that there have 23 been quite a number -- the intent of these communications 24 was to emphasize, first of all, our commitments to high q 25 standards and clear accountabilities; remind them of the V
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1 success objectivos that we've laid out -- and this is just 2 essential to sr.anagement -- re-establishing the integrity of 3 how Hillstone operates.
4 The second objective in the communications was 5 to generally describo the seriousness of the findings 6 loading to the disciplinary actions. Obviously, what we 7 were trying to do there is to strike an appropriate balance 8 betwoon individual privacy concerns and the need to 9 communicato to our oroployees as to why those acticna were 10 taken. We also made it clear that this set of disciplinary 11 actions was event-driven as opposed to some desire by 12 management to go back in the past and rummage around and 13 just generally find problems. I mean, that's not what wo 14 were about. We had a specific event that we were 15 responding to.
16 And certainly a portion of the communications 17 woro directed toward answering questions and concerns. So, 10 that was our second challengo, to do a lot of 19 communicating.
20 The third challongo -- and this really goes to 21 the fact that in spite of our judgement as to the 22 appropriatonosa of the disciplinary actions, and in spite 23 of our considerable ef f orts to suf ficiently communicate the 24 rationale for our actions -- the third challenge was to 25 recognize that there is likely some chilling offeet in at
\.)
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1 12 1 least portions of the Millstone work environment, and that 2 we need to take further appropriate actions to address that 1
3 situation. )
4 Now, we've divided our actions into several l 4
5 steps, and these are recognized in the handout, Table 2.
, 6 The first step -- and this is really an ongoing effort -- 1 7 but the first step is to better identify the extent of the 8 chilling effect and the specific causes of concerns, I 9 mean, it's one thing to generally say, okay, disciplinary 10 action took place but, okay, inside that, what aru the 11 specifics of what it is that you're worried about that's 12 driving your thinking.
13 So, in that regard, there are three actions in
- b 14 progress. One is that management continues to solicit 15 input regarding concerns through various meetings and one-16 on-one discussions. In other words, management is 17 continuing to interact with the workforce, have employees 18 ask questions, have employees express concerns, and we're 19 gathering that information.
20 Second is our ECP investigators are actively 21 soliciting input. We're not talking about sitting in the 22 office waiting for the phone call, we're talking about 23 going into certain areas of the workforce, interacting with 24 employees, asking questions -- how are you doir.g, what are f
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1 feedback, particu.1.arly in the areas of oversight and 2 training.
3 The third point is our Employee Concerns e
4 Oversight Panel, ECOP, as a parallel and ongoing effort to 5 determine the extent of a chilling environment and the 6 causes. So, through various mechanisms, we are endeavoring 7 to understand what is it the employees are really worried 8 about.
9 How, the second step -- and those run a little 10 bit in parallel. The first step is to gather information 11 as to just what's happening and what are the concerns, and ,
12 then the second step is to address those concerns.
13 Now, thus far, we have identified two principal
'V 14 issues as to what the employees are worried about. I'm not 15 saying this is all, but there's definitely a peak on these 16 two. One is the assertion by et least some of the 17 individuals disciplined that while not necessarily 18 contesting the facts of what I would characterize as the 19 " wrongdoing", they are expressing concern that they didn't 20 have a auf ficient opportunity to tell the whole story. And 21 what's really meant by that is, you know, they went through 22 a process. They were asked a lot of questions by those 23 doing the investigation, and they responded to those 24 questions, but now they are thinking about, well, there are l 25 some additional things I could have said, not so much to l
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14 I change the fact that there was a serious miss in terms of ;
2 meeting standards, but to talk about mitigating 3 circumstances -- you know, how hard was I working, or what ,
4 kind of pressure was I under, how much time did I have --
5 you know, whatever they want to say regarding mitigating ,
6 circumstances.
- 7 Our response to that particular assertion -- I i
8 didn't get a chance to tell the whole story -- is that we 9 are going to bring in a third party -- not the individuals 10 who did the initial investigation, but a separate third 11 party -- to provide an independent means for them to 12 express whatever additional information they think 13 management didn't know, or should have known -- and -
14 certainly we will consider any new information developed.
15 Now, there's obviously no promise here that 16 whatever they say would necessarily result in a change in 17 disciplinary action, but if there's that much of a concern 18 as to whether or not they got a fair hearing through the 19 investigative process, we'll be happy to provide a further 20 opportunity. We'll take whatever information is presented.
21 We'll ask ourselves-whether or not that would cause us to 22 conclude anything different had we known it at the time we 23 made the. decision -- or maybe we already knew it -- but 24- we'll certainly take that information into consideration 25 and see whether or not that results in any adjustment in NEAL R. GROS 8 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1823 RilODE IS!AND AVE., N.W.
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l 15 f
1 the disciplinary action taken. So, that's one key issue, 2 and that's particularly among the training individuals.
3 MR. COLLINS: Druce, can I ask a question here, 4 if it's appropriate?
5 MR. KENYON: Yes.
6 MR. COLLINS: Is that true for both your 7 supervisory and your, I would assumo, bargaining unit 0 eligible people?
9 MR. KENYON: They are not bargaining unit, but 10 it's to everyone disciplined.
11 MR, COLLINS: Everyone disciplined. So it's 12 universal.
13 MR. KENYON: It's universal. Anyone who was 14 disciplined and who wants to avail himself of this 15 additional step to alleviate the concern that maybe 16 management didn't know all it needed to know, we're going 17 to provide that opportunity, and then deal with the 18 results.
19 MR. COLLINS: And it's voluntary.
20 MR. KENYON: It's voluntary, absolutely.
21 MR. TRAVERS: And this is something that's 22 being made known to the workforce in general?
23 MR. KENYON: I think there are a few people 24 that know it now, but we --
it has not been broadly g 25 communicated yet, we are about to do that. I mean, this is O
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16 1 a decision that I reached just in the last couple of days.
2 So, we are about to -- and, frankly, what we're going to do 3 -- I mean, we may do some communication before thio, but 4 one of the items in Table 1 was one of our all-hands I
j 5 meetings, and just so it's clear to everybody, all-hands 1 4
6 really means fitting about 10 percent of the population'at 7 Millstone into the cafeteria and we talk to them. We did l 8 an all-hands meeting the day that we announced it and we 9 talked about it. I think we need to do another one, you
. 10 know, just based on the amount of churning that's going on.
11 So, we will have another all-hands meeting early next week,
-12 and we will certainly talk about these actions then. We ,
13 may have talked about them before, but we will definitely 14 talk about those actions then, r 15 Now, the second of the two issues that are 16 surfacing is that at least some of the discipline taken was 17 a retallation against one or more individuals. And our 18 response to this is that the same independent means that we 19 established for that first acr. ton -- in other words, 20 somebody who was not part of the initial investigation, 21 somebody that's independent of the company -- you know, 22 that same whoever-it-is because we haven't picked exactly 23 who is going to do it yet, we want to do that fairly 24 quickly, but I can't tell you today who is going to do it -
25 - that same individual -- we're going to give individual or O
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l 17 1 group, whatever it turns out to be -- we're going to give 2 that person a second task, and that second task is to have 3 a presentation fron the outside group that developed the 4 initial information that management acted on. And I want -
5 -
because there is this concern that maybe the 6 investigation information was somehow manipulated before it 7 got to me and that led to a decision that wasn't an 8 appropriate decision if I had had access to the straight 9 facts -- we're going to ask that that same independent 10 party look at the initial set of facts that were developed, 11 look at the disciplinary decisions that were made, and 12 reach an independent judgment as to whether there's a 13 reasonable relationship between the two.
14 How, it's our belief that based on the two 15 principal issues that we know so f ar, that should go a long 16 way toward addressing the concerns.
17 Certainly, as we continue to gather more 18 inf ormation, if we learn of other signi ficant concerns, we 19 will ondeavor, put thi ough communications or whatever, 20 address those concerns.
21 MR. LioGERMAN: Mr. l(enyon, are you planning to 22 have this second independent group also consider any 23 mitigating information or whatever additional information 24 the disciplined employee may be providing under your first 25 approach?
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1 HR. KENYON: I think that the -- the answer I 2 think is no, but I want to be absolutely sure I understand 3 the question and that you understand my response. Evun 4 though I'm having the same independernt investigator look at 5 two difforent things, one was let's get any relevant 6 additional information. But to deal with the specific issue 7 of were the disciplinary actions taken a reasonable 8' response to the information presented to management, I've 9 got to limit what the person does to look at that initial 10 set of information that was presented to us.
11 Now, I don't have any problem if, when we get 12 this other information and if we conclude we ought to 13 adjust anything, or even if we don't -- I mean, I don't .
14 have any problem with that person saying, well, what you're 15 doing with the additional information is reasonable or not 16 reasonable, but the tuo -- I'm trying to focus on the two 17 specific issues, and I think this apprnnoh allows me to 18 focus on the two specific issues.
19 MR. COLLINS: If I understand correctly, Bruce, 20 your object is to come in and independently overview the 21 decisionmaking process that was used to come to the initial 22 decision?
23 MR. KENYON Yes.- In other words, what was the 24 information presented, and nere are the decisions taken, 25 and is there a reasonable relationship between the two.
l
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1 Now, that's more looking at each end but, frankly, I do 2 want the person to look at the process that took us from 3 here to here because -- I mean, I think there were -- as I l 4 said, we had three mootings. The officers were present.
5 The others that I indicated woro present. And I think it 6 would be very appropriate for whoever does the 7 investigation to interview folks who were in those mootings 8 and be very comfortable that it was a reasonable and fair 9 process as well as the outcome actions.
10 MR. LieGERMAN: But that is being based on the 11 information the first outsido law firm gathered in the 12 first place to based your decisions on.
13 MR. KENYON: Yes.
'v 14 MR. LieGERMAN: And now you're going to give 15 the individuals disciplined an opportunity to provide 16 whatever additional information, for whatever reason wasn't 17 provided earlier, and if that's relevant to the decision 10 being made, it seems that if you're having the second group 19 give you greater assurance that what you did was right, or 20 convince the workers that what you did was right, it seems 21 that they might as well consider any additional information 22 just to complete the process. That's your choice, 23 obviously.
24 MR. KENYON: That's fine in terms of whate' :r 25 the ultimate result is, but T want to make sure that they
(
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l 20 1 answer the narrow question, which is --
because the i 2 assertion here is somehow the investigative findings were 3 manipulated by the time they got to me, that I went off and 4 concluded X, where if those findings hadn't somehow been 5 biased or distorted or whatever I wouldn't have concluded 6 that. That's what's rumbling around. '
7 I want to be very sure that that specific 8 question gets disposition. But certainly, however we come 9 out, I'm not adverse to the third party overviewing the 10 ultimate result, which may or may not be c. hanged, but if we 11 get meaningful additional information, we'll certainly 12 consider it.
13 How, the third step in this effort --
I've 14 talked abcut assessing the situation. I've talked about 15 responding to specific issues. The third general step is 16 that we want to continue our efforts to reinforce and 17 communicate our management principles and expectations.
18 And ever since wo've been here, we have been talking about 19 the importance of employees bringing forward concerns, that 20 that's what a healthy organization is all about, that's the 21 only way that this organization can, in a credible way, 22 present itself as ready for-restart and go on.
! 23 So, at almost every employee meeting I have, i
24 we've worked that into the conversation somehow. And I 25 think that the results that Little Harbor presented not O
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21 l
1 that long ago, what's the overall safety conscious work p]
2 environment today versus what it was a year ago, I think 3 that that shows significant progrest. . Nevertheless, our 4 third step is to continue our efforts to reinforce and 5 communicate those mossages.
6 As a fourth step -- and this is more in the 7 realm of lessons learned -- we want to look at what wo have 8 done since concluding what the disciplinary actions were in 9 terms of how we communicated and so forth, and just see if 10 there's anything in that that we could have done better.
11 I mean, I'd like to think we'll never have to do this again 12 but, you know, you never know, so let's see what we can 13 learn.
o 14 MR. COLLINS: Would you explain that point 15 again -- I'm sorry.
16 MR. KENYON: It's looking at we, as a 17 management team -- or ultimate?.y me -- reached a decision 18 on the disciplinary action. From that point in time, wo 19 went forward and we did a lot of communicating, and let's 20 critique those communications.
21 MR. COLLINS: That's the lessons learned, and 22 you go from there.
23 MR. KENYON: That's right. So those are the 24 four steps that we're pursuing. In terms of my f3 25 presentation to you, I'd like to just wrap up uith some b
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l 22 1 observations.
2 I think we all recognize that the issue of 3 employee concerns has been a significant issue at the 4 H111 stone station. As I said at the outset, I strongly 5 support the need for very viable and well done, safety 6 conscious work effort. I think we have made significant 7 progress. I made reference, to the Little liarbor data, and 8 their measurement of the 1,resence of the chilling effect a 9 year ago versus today was a drop -- on a scale of 1-to-5 10 was a drop from 3.1 to 1.8, so almost cut in half. There's 11 still more we can do, obviously, but I think we've made a 12 lot of progress.
13 Our PII cultural survey showed improvement of O
b 14 11 percent. I think that's a good improvement. We'd like 15 to do more. And since underneath all of this is the issue 16 of leadership, we were quito gratified to see a 21 percent 17 improvement in our leadership assessment scores between 18 when we first arrived to now, and scores in all categories 19 are good.
20 Now, a significant improvement in averages --
21 which is what this is -- whether you look at the Little 22 liarbor data or you look at the PII survey or you look at 23 the leadership assessment, averages have come up nicely.
24 I think where we're really focusing now, or 25 starting to focus, is not so much on the average but on the U
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I 23 1 pockets. I think we have pockets -- little climates, if n
2 you will -- within the overall Hillstone climate, whern the f]
3 safety conscious work ethic is not as strong as it needs to 4 be, and that ultimately probably goes to questions of 5 leadership and, to some extent, questions of history, but 6 using the leadership assessment which takes things all the 7 way down to individuals, using the PII survey which drills 8 things down to fairly small organizations, using what we 9 get out of the ECP program which -- you know, when you 10 start getting a number of concerns coming out of a 11 particular area, that tells you something. And we also 12 hope to have in the not too distant future, some data out 13 of Little liarbor as to where they think there might be O
V 14 problems. And, thus, our desire here is to triangulata --
15 it's more than three --
but triangulate all this and 16 understand where we've got pockets of concerns, and that 17 will allow us to focus on local leadership, and that will 18 allow us to make some decisions on whether that leadership 19 has what it takes, can do what it needs to do with 20 appropriated coaching, or we really don't have the right 21 person in the job.
22 What I'm now describing are actions that we 23 were intending to take anyway but, as a final comment, we 24 take these chilling effect concerns very seriously. Our p 25 belief is we want not only to take correct actions, but to V
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24 1 have those actions correctly perceived. And we intend to 2 aggressively address the concerns that follow on with this 3 particular event.
4 We have a lead officer from the perspective of 5 a safety conscious work environment, the executive sponsor 6 is Mike Brothers and, thus, the various actions we are 7 taking which go across the organization will be coordinated 8 under Mike. But we recognize this is a very important 9 issue. We're responding to the specific concerns that wo 10 can spot so far, and we will continue to work hard on it 11 because we absolutely believe the disciplinary action we 12 took was necessary and appropriate, but we certainly 13 recognize that it can be misperceived.
14 MR. LieGERMAN: Do your employees know that 15 these ndditional reviews are being conducted?
16 HR. KENYON: Not yet. They will in a few days.
17 MR. LloGERMAN: Decause chilling effect is 18 dealing with perception. Perceptions are everything. And 19 that's the challenge, to convince people that what you did 20 was the right thing to do.
21 MR. KENYON: And that's why we're taking those 22 two specific -- I mean, here are the two dominant what I 23 would characterize as "misperceptions", and let's 24 aggressively respond to both of those. Let's have it 25 independently looked at. And to the extent we identify O
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i 25 1 other things that we'll need to work on in terms of how 2 employees are perceiving things -- because I absolutely 3 agree, perception is the issue.
4 MR. TRAVERS: In that regard, how would you 5 expect the results of these independent assessments, 6 including additional information provided possibly by those 7 individuals af fected and, secondly, in this independent 8 review that certainly you will examine the first instance 9 management decision and perhaps include an assessment of 10 any additional information to look at the ultimate 11 management decision. How would you expect and to what 12 extent would that information and the results of those 13 evaluations be made available to the workforce, or at least i
14 characterized --
15 MR. KENYON: Well, let me break it down. First 16 of all, we want to make it very clear up front that this is 17 what we're doing. Then the next thing is -- you know, one 18 aspect of it is the opportunity for employees to provide 19 additional information. I mean, we can certainly let the 20 workforce know that that's been accomplished. ;
21 We will ultimately let the workforce know that 22 that did or did not result in any change in our 23 disciplinary action.
24 In terms of the linkage between the initial 25 facts as developed by the outside investigators and our t
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26 1 disciplinary actions, we certainly will let the workforce 2 know that the independent review looked at that and here's 3 what they concluded. So we will do at least that.
4 MR. LANNING: I just want to understand your 5 disciplinary process. Doesn't your current process for 5, administering disciplinary action have an interaction
) between employee and management prior to taking i
8 I disciplinary action?
5- MR. KENYON: The standard process does. This 10 was not a standard approach. Now, we can argue whett.or or 11 not it should have fit or it could have fit, but the normal 12 disciplinary situation is management concludes -- you know, 1
13 immediate management concludes something isn't right and 14 talks to the employee, and the employee cats a chaace to 15 '
say whatever the empiciee wants to say, and then management 16 concludes that this is the appropriate discipline.
17 Well, this was investigations done by outside 10 counsol on some fairly serious matters, and it really --
19 the information came in at a relatively high level in the 20 organi3ation. It was fairly sensitive. So, this was 21 something that didn't fit very well the normal mold.
22 MR. LANNING: To what extent did you consider 23 the potential for chilling effect prior to taking an 24 action?
s 25 MR. KENYON: We absolute 2y considered it,
(
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27 1 Wayne, and -- but I will also say that we felt we nad to 2 take things in two steps. In other words, we had to -- we 3 had to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror after we F
4 made the disciplinary decisions, and conclude that what we 5 had done was fair and right. And what's fair and right 6 should no be driven by the fact it's going to cause you 7 some perception problems. I mean, I just am not willing to 8 significantly bias the results because it will be b 9 misperceived. That's just who I am and my sense of 10 standard.
[.s 11 So, we focused --
in the decisionmaking 12 process, we focused on what's fair and right.
) 13 Subsequently, we absolutely realized that this would cause 14 perception issues and, thus, the second challenge that I 15 laid out was, how do we communicate this in the most 16 effective way. And we endeavored to do that. Having done 17 that, not everybody's happy.
18 MR. LANNING: But that process took place prior 19 to the announcement?
20 MR. KENYON: Absolutely.
21 MR. LANNING: You went through this process of 22 how you're going to communicate, the steps you're going to 23 take subsequent to the announcemen .
2' MR, COLLINS: The dates on the table show that, 25 to the extent that I understand how the dates come together.
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28 1- MR. KENYON - Exactly. Now, just to make sure 2 I'm being responsive to your question, Wayne, Table 1 -- we 3 pretty much kr.ew Table 1. Now, there are a couple of 4 -meetings on Table 1 where, after the initial cnnouncement, 5 an' employee group said, please-come talk to'us. We went 6 and talked to them. I mean, that's on Table 1.
7 The two actions that I'm talking about in 8 response to the concerns were not actions agreed to prior 9 to the initial announcement becaune they really are driven 10 by the fact that, okay, in listening to the workforce, not 11 everyone is sufficiently convinced. So, okay, we've got
- 12 that input, we're going to add these actions.
I 13 MR. LieGERMAN: Since this meeting is being 14 transcribed, could you just explain the last sentence on 15 the first page of your handout in respect to your i
16 descriptions of what you're planning to do.
17 MR. KENYON: Well, the Table of completed i
- 18 Actions or Facts, the Planned Actions are actions that I
19 we're planning to do. I mean, I['m not actually sure what 20 the subtlety is here.
21 MS. LOFTUS: And, basically, we're going to be 22 sharing the results of those as well as any other number of 23 things that we're doing, as part of our safety conscious 24 work environment and employee concerns plan, as we meet 25 with the Resource Assessment Panel periodically, and with l O
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29 1 others.
2 .' MR. TRAVERS: I don't want to speak for you 3 but, typically, in correspondence that we receive frora 4 Northeast, we get from them a very careful identification 5 of things which they consider commitments in the licensing 6 sense, and it's something that -- with other licensees we 7 certainly share your concerns. Keeping commitment tracking 8 easily identifiable for both licenseea and NRC. But I 9 would expect that we're going to have another opportunity -
10 - and tell me if I'm wrong -- if something changes in your 1
11 thinking, to become av re of that relatively quickly.
12 MR. KENYON: Yes.
13 MR. COLLINS: I think, just while we're r
14 waiting, this is one area -- just to respond a little bit 15 to Jim's question -- where we're truly in a performance 16 based mode. We're going to measure the results of what you 17 do more so than what it takes for you to get there, just 18 more of a business decision in this regard.
19 MR. KENYON: I understand.
20 MR. TRAVERS: I think for the purpose of this 21 meeting we wanted to, in the very near-term, come to an-22 understanding or your activities, where you're at, what's 23 you're planning to do. As I indicated in my opening 24 remarks, it's our expectation that ef forts that we already q 25 have underway -- that you have underway and which we have N)
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1 30' '
1 underway . to assess .them,. including offorts under - our
^
2 . current order, are going to be the principal mechanisms for 3 assessing improvements which you need to make in your 4 programs in terms of safety conscious environment, in terms 5 of how the company deals with employees who raise concerns',
< 6 and the concarns themselves.
- 7. So, I think this has been useful as a near-term 8 opportunity really to identify what your activities are and
~
9 what are planned, but in the longer-term we have underway 10 a more enveloping assessment of your activities already in l 11' place, and I expect we'll continue to rely on that 4
- 12 principally.In our assessment.
13 MR. KENYON: Understocd.
[ 14 MR. COLLINS: I think just to close out, Bruce, 15 so the message is clear, just to be sure that we're 16 communicating well, that the Agency, by conducting this 17 meeting, has sent a message to you that this is important, 18 and we have elevated the stature beyond-perhaps what we
, 19 would-typically do for other stations. There's a reason 20 for that. You know that we do a lot of history here. The 21 fact that we're talking about I think is a sign of where
'22 you are in your efforts to gain cmployee confidence, and 23 .the way you're reacting to it vill certainly be measured by
- 24 your own staff, and it will.be important not only in your 25 short-term effort, but in your long-term efforts, in moving b
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31 1 people along to where you want them to be. So, to that 2 extent, I think that there are, outside of this meeting, 3 certainly continuing actions that I'm sure that you will 4 focus on and we'll measure the results in the future.
5 P.R. KENYON: I understand the need for the 6 meeting, and I want to be sure that I've been clear. I 7 mean, we have recognized this as probably one of our 8 toughest issues, and also recognize it as an extremely 9 important issue. I mean, we're talking about changing the 10 culture, changing how things are done at Millstone. So, 11 whether we had had this meeting or not, this is a very 12 important item on our radar. But we're happy to have the 13 meeting and share with you what ue're doing as these events O 14 unfold.
15 MR. TRAVERS: Okay. Before I close, I'll ask 16 if any NRC members have any further questions.
17 (No response.)
18 Hearing none, thank you for coming. That 19 concludes the meeting.
20 (Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the meeting was 21 concluded.)
22 23 24 25
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O CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: PUBLIC MEETING Decket Number: N/A Place of Proceeding: ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
1 ?
h)
~
i vlb 4 W 44L e "fHYLL7,S YOdNG,/ /j Official Repobter Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.
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