ML20125E240

Transcript of 921211 Dcnpp,Units 1 & 2 Public Meeting (Construction Period Recovery) in San Luis Obispo,Ca. Pp 352-406

ML20125E240
Person / Time
Site:	Diablo Canyon
Issue date:	12/11/1992
From:	Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel
To:
References
CON-#492-13482 OLA-2, NUDOCS 9212160265
Download: ML20125E240 (55)

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.O OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS geg}g. U.S. Nuc1 ear Regulatory Commission Atomic Safety and Licensing Board

Title:

oiasto Canyon Nuc1 ear Power Plant, Units 1 and 2 Public Meeting (Construction Period Recovery)

Docket No. 50-275-OLA-2 50-323-OLA-2 ASLBP No. 92-669-03-OLA-2

.O LOCATION: San Luis Obispo, California DATE: Friday, December 11, 1992 PAGES: 352 - 406 ANN MM & MIATES, LTD.

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352-1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ,

2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4 ----------------x 5 In the Matter of:  :

6 DIABLO CANYON NUCLEAR POWER  : Docket Nos. 50-275-OLA-2 7 PLANT, UNITS 1 AND 2 PUBLIC  : 50-323-OLA-2 8 MEETING  : ASLBP ho. 92-669-03-OLA-2 9 (Construction Period Recovery)  :

10 ----------------x 11 12 City Hall, 990 Palm 13 San Luis Obispo, California 14 15 Friday, December 11, 1992 16 17 The above-entitled matter came on for public 18 hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m.

19 20 BEFORE:

21 JERRY R. KLINE

-22 FREDERICK J. silon 23- CHARLES BECHHOEFER 24 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGES 25 O ANN -RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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353 1 APPEARANCES:

2 3 On Behalf of Pacific Gas and Electric Company, the 4 Licensect 5

6 DAVID REPKA, Es. quire 7 RICIIARD IDCKE, Esquire B Cl!RIS WARllER, Esquire -

9 10 on Behalf of the conmission Staff:

11 i

12 ANN HODGDON 13 ARLENE A. JORGENSEN, Esquire 14 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 15 Office of General Counsel 16 Washington, D.C. 20555 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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354 1 MEMBERS OF Tile PUBLIC 2

3 CAR SALZGEBER, Pismo Beach 4 MARCEL MARTIN, San Luis Obispo 5 DARRYL PilILIPS, San Luis Obispo 6 FRED FRAliK, Atascadero 7 JACQUELINE Wi!EELER, San Luis Obispo B TED liALL, San Luis Obispo -

9 ANDREW MOYNA, Building Trades Council of San

'O Luis Obispo 11 ELIZABETil JESSBERG, San Luis Obispo <

12 DOUG CllAPNAN, Ontario, Canada 13 CAROL CHOPATl!IK, San Luis Obispo 14 JOE O'DONNELL, San Luis Obispo 15 BILL SIEVERS, San Luis Obispo 16 TERRI BOTIIWELL, San Luis Obispo 17 IIARVEY WASSERMAN, Greenpeace 18 19 20-21 22 23 24 25 Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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i 355 1- INDEX O 2 Page 3 GAR SALZGEBER, Pismo Beach 356 4 MARCEL MARTIN, San Luis Obispo 361 5 DARRYL PIIILIPS, San Luis Obispo 364 6 FRED FRANK, Atascadero 367

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7 JACQUELINE WilEELER, San Luis Obispo 374 ,

8 TED liALL, San Luis Obispo 380 9 ANDREW MOYNA, Building Trades Council of San 10 Luis Obispo 383-11 ELIZABETl! JESSBERG, San Luis ObAspo 386 12 DOUG CilAPMAN, Ontario, Canada 387 13 CAROL CllOPATilIK, San Luis Obispo 391 14 JOE O'DONNELL, San Luis Obispo 393 15 BILL SIEVERS, San Luis Obispo 398 16 TERRI BOTIIWELL, San Luis Obispo 399 17 DARRRYL PHILIPS 399 18  !!ARVEY WASSERMAN, Greenpeace 4L 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 O ^"" ai'ev

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356 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 (9:05 a.m.)

3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Good morning, ladies and ,

4 gentlemen.

5 We are back on the record for continuation of the 6 limited appearance session that started last night. At that 7 time, there were a number of people here who said they would l l

8 be willing to come back today. Certainly I don't see all of l 1

9 them, but I think rather than call out names, we will just 10 start with persons who wish to make a statement who are in 11 the audience.

12 We have one additional name that was given to us, 13 but I guess we will just go in any order. Anyone who wishes 14 to make a statement, let us know, and get up and make a 15 statement. .

16 Is there anyone here who desires to make a 17 statement?

18 MR. SALZGEBER: My name is Gar Salzgeber. I live l 19 in Pismo Beach.

l 20 I was still writing this, and I don't speak too 21 well spontancously, so I will read some of this, and then '

22 try to make some sense at the end where I never really 23 finished.

24 I am a retired California State Park Ranger. My-j 25 assignment was at Pismo Dune State Vehicular Recreation Area l

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357 1 where I was the supervising ranger. .: had twelve rangers 2 undr me and five dispatchers.

3 Plumo Duno State Vehicular Recreation Area is 4 known in the State Park system as the heaviest law 5 enforcement state park in California. I was there for 16 6 years, and part of my responsibilities, I feel, relate to 1

7 probably the Diablo Canyon operation. I feel that Diablo i 8 Canyon is just a bigger burehucratic brother that has taught l 9 us a lot about our own personal operation.

10 If I were to put a philosophy into effect about 11 how we did things, and I strongly suspect how Diablo does 12 it, the philosophy in the short phrase would be, what the 13 public doesn't know can't hurt us.

14 curing my first five years at Pismo Dune State 15 Vehicular Roc er.tlon Area, we were considered to be a war 16 zone. Almost 9 ezy day we had major incidents. It was 17 extremely crar, . At least once a month a pedestrian would 18 get run over by either a drunk driver,-or occasionally 19 people that were run over by people in dune buggies who 20 laughed at the victim, and just said, " Tough luck, you are l 21 in the wrong place at the wrong time."

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l 22 It was real crazy, and my job was to not get a lot 23 of this out to the public because we felt if the local 24 public knew what was happening, they would be highly 25 motivated to want to close us down.

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358 1 I was motivated by my superiors when I made press O 2 releases, and they would occasionally critique some of the 3 comments I made, and I learned that there were some things I 4 just didn't discuss.

5 I feel there is one major difference between the 6 operation at Diablo Canyon and Pismo Duno State Vehicular 7 Recreation Area. The difference is that we knew that in the 8 operation of Pismo Dunes, our budget would catch up to us, 9 and we would eventually have the manpower and the equipment 10 to do that job.

11 I retired, as I mentioned, because I felt I had 12 met all my challenges and goals, and I really got bored, and 13 I feel that I have other things to contribute.

14 I don't feel that Diablo Canyon can ever meet 15 these challenges or goals. Th3y were designed 20 or 30 16 years ago, and I don't feel that the designs were able to 17 keep up with the modern times, and current information that 18 we have.

19 I had an experience with Diablo Canyon. I found 20 that -- I had a direct experience with the operation of the 21 plant in dispatch, one of the things that really scared us, 22 we had to have an evacuation plan, along with other public 23 agencies in the state, and the thing that scared us it, that 24 frequently we had, on a major holiday weekend, we would have 25 five to ten thousand vehicles leaving our beach. We had two Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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359 1 exit points, and it would take three hours to get these O 2 vehicles off the beach in a random order as they wanted to 3 go when the traffic is relatively decreased, just like an 4 L.A. traffic jam, you want to go out there when the traffic 5 is least heavy. So these people would go out at times when 6 it was least heavy, but even there we had three to four 7 hours of bumper to bumper traffic leaving our beach after a 8 holiday weekend.

9 The thing that really scared us was, what is going 10 to happen if we have to get these people off the beach 11 really fast, and they get word of what is really going down.

12 It would be very similar to perhaps a movie theater that 13 gets caught on fire, and then you have the major stampede at 14 the door where people stomp each other into the ground, only 15 this is much heavier because we are talking about anything 16 from motorcycles up to 33-foot motor homes.

17 There is another problem that I was exposed to, 18 which is, I was really disenchanted with the system, and 19 that was that vo were given a handy-talkie that was a direct 20 communications with the command center of the sheriff's 21 office. It was a California Highway Patrol handy-talkie. I 22 had that when we first came up with an evacuation plan. It 23 sat in our dispatch office, and for two years we would 24 occasionally try to test it. We never got an answer on the 25 other line.

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360 1 We said, "Well, obv!ously, they are on the other 2 frequency, and tiiey don't monitor this one." There was 3 never any testing provision made to find out if it worked or 7 4 not. Finally, a local highway patrolman stopped la the 5 office, and it really bothered me, and I thought about this 6 handy-talkie, and I asked him to just go out in the field 7 and call un back when he gets to the different locations, 8 and find out what our range was.

9 We found our range was one mile, and it went from 10 our main office at Pismo Dunes to approximately the theater 11 in the middle of town at Pismo Beach that is currently 12 closed right now. The range had to go through Avila Beach, 13 over those mountains, to the sheriff's communication center 14 to be effective, and it was even effective. ,

15 At that point, I tried to get a different radio or 16 exchange this radio. Nobody really cared, nobody wanted to 17 listen to it, they just sort of put it off. It took me two la years to get rid of this radio, give it back to CHP, and 19 currently I retired this last-Summer, and we never had a 20 replerement to that point.

21 I don't know what kind of communications that they 22 have planned for ns in case the regular channels breakdown, 23 but it was not working, and nobody really cared. That is 24 something that concerns me about this evacuation plan, that 25 it is off the hot burner, and people in the system, just Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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361 1 doesn't care any more. They are saying, " Don't bug me, I O 2 have other things to do," and the evacuation plan is still, 3 I fhsl, a real disaster.

4 Thank you.

5 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Thank you.

6 As I mentioned earlier, at the moment, at least, 7 we are not calling people from any list, but we would like 8 neople who wish to make a statement to do so. There were a 9 number of people who signed up yesterday, and who said they 10 would be back, but I am not sure about any of the people 11 here.

12 Feel free, if you wish, to make your statement 13 right now.

() 14 15 MS. MARCEL:

retired teacher, 67 years old.

My name is Marcel Martin. I am a Usually people do not l 16 believe it, but it is true.

17 I am a docent in the museums. I am also a docent 18 at the Jack House where I should be putting up the 19 decorations. I could not stay late last night because of my 20 age because I was tired, exhausted, actually because I 21 danced too much on the plaza to celebrate.

22 Seriously, I was invited to go to Diablo Canyon as l

23 a docent of the museum. The museum has about 150 docents 24 with only one ranger, if I may say so, and a half. I mean 25 with a part-time ranger for one day-and-a-half during the Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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362 1 week.

2 Invited to Diablo Canyon, I was greeted by a young 3 biologist who had studied at Cal Poly, and who said that she 4 had been against Diablo Canyon in the past. We did not see 5 what we were promised to see, the tido pools which are-6 mentioned so much when the children visit Diablo Canyon, for 7 security reasons that I do not understand, maybe some 8 scientist will explain, we were not allowed to see the tide ,

9 pools. We were promised also many sea mammals that we did 10 not see, with the exception of a few otters.

11 My point is, why is it that the children have to 12 be taken to Diablo Canyon, exposed -- I do not know if they 13 are exposed to the radiation, I do not doubt the scientists, 14 but I cannot demonstrate that. What I can very well 15 demonstrate is to use their own words on the green sheet, i

16 the propaganda that thay put in the brains of those little 17 ones, fourth grado, fifth grade, and the propaganda would 18 not happen if the children would be taken to park and 19 recreation at Montana de Oro, at cayucos on the strand of 20 Morro Bay where I have seen much more marine life in nature 21 with beautiful background of their own houses, or the city 22 of Morro Bay, not the plant of Diablo Canyon.

23 Since we saw half of what had been promised to us, 24 there was time for other things, and this is the other thing 25 that I wanted to mention. There was time for the biologist ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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1 to put in our brains of adults the fact that whatever was  !

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([]) 2 tried in the Carrizo Plain was completely inefficient. You ,

3 see, I am not a scientist, but you know what was tried in 4 the Carrizo Plain, it is solar energy, completely -

5 inefficient. This is what she tried to demonstrate and to 6 prove to all the adults who were there. Please, sir, you 7 can imagine how it works on the minds of the little ones.

8 I will conclude with something that changes a

, 9 little bit the subject. Five years ago, when I came, I know 30 about the danger of those nuclear plants, the one that I had 11 anon in France where I was born, they look beautiful, but 12 they are very dangerous.

13 But also, I lived near the Savannah Fiver in 14 Georgia. I did not know even the name of the fault when I-

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15 was invited to attend the hearings five years ago at Avila-16 Beach, however, I knew that there was a fault. All that I 17 know was that I had been given a very beautiful but very 18 expensive calendar, the calendar of PG&E giving the 19 direction of an evacuation that everybody has already 20 demonstrated that it is not adequate. So I have returned 21 the calendars that I have received in great numbers in my 22 mailbox to PG&E. I do not accept their programs. I do not -

23 accept their calendars. i 24 However, I accept, and I have accepted the bulb 25 that a young lady by the name Jane, that is all I.know, has ,

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364 1 been passing to seniors. That I accept because that in for

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? caving the consumption of power. I wish they would 3 concentrate on better programs.

4 Thank you very much.

5 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Thank you.

6 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT Question, how do I get my 7 name on the list?

8 JUDGE DECHHoEFER: Well, you are on it, if you 9 want to make your statement.

10 MR. PHILIPS: My name in Darryl Philips. I am a 11 little out of breath because I walked kind of fast to get 12 here, but I am a local. I was born in the area, and raised 13 in the area. I own an electronic engineering firm, and I 14 also took part in the protest in 1980 and '81.

15 But, unlike many of these people, I took the 16 trouble to go out and work for PG&E at Diablo Canyon for a 17 while because I wanted to see for myself if the plant was 18 being run safely, if it was being run cleanly, and in my 19 opinion, after working there on three occasions, after 20 working in the Formed Trails Exclusion Program, after 21 working around the spent fuel pool, after working around the 22 reactor cavity area, after serving with the dosimetry 23 equipment che areas in the RCA, and doing nuclear q' 24 decontamination, my opinion after all these things is that 25 the plant is being run well. It is clean. I have not found G ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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365 1 any excessive levels of contamination that we need to be O 2 cencerned about or dealt with, 3 In fact, my worst case of contamination name not 4 from working in the RCA in the plant, but from working in a 5 concrete building here in town. That day I just so happened 6 to come in for a dosimetry on the last day of my job, did 7 not work in tne plant, and they scanned my body, and found 8 out that I was contaminated with radon. So that _

9 contamination exceeded anything that I had picked up inside 10 the plant.

11 If anything, from working in the plant, I found 12 that the most common form of contamination that the workers 13 get stopped with when they leave the radiologically 14 controlled area is radon from the concrete building, and not 15 contaminates from the nuclear process. So, up to this 16 point, I am very pleased.

17 As I have said, I have used the survey equipment, 18 and I have not detected any appreciable levels of radiation 19 outside of the RCA. I have walked down areas doing tool 20 control, and have seen the construction. I have seen the 21 repair work that is going on inside the plant, and I am 22 please with the way it is going on. I think that LIcimately 23 the decision on whether to extend the license of the plant 24 or not is an engineering issue based on such issues as 25 embrittlement with the steel in the reactor, and things like O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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366 1

1 this.

2 Based on those issues, I believe that the license j 3 of the plant should be extended because the operation of the 4 plant was delayed, and because of that, the steel has not 5 embrittled up to the point that would be expected at thic i

6 time, i 7 So my opinion is that the plant is safe, the plant 8 is clean, and the license should be extended. For all of 9 those who feel that I may have a vested interest in this, 10 let me tell you that my engineering firm is currently 11 working on a design for a power invertor for a solar system.

12 I have a vested interest in solar energy. I stand to make a ,

13 lot of money from solar energy, but my current opinion is 14 that solar energy is not right yet as a viable replacement

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15 for nuclear power for several reasons.

16 One in that we are still dependent on the lead 17 acid battery as a primary form of power storage; and, two, 18 the efficiency of solar cells at t'ais time on a commercial 19 market was only 7 to 10, maybe 12 percent, if you want to

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20 shell out a lot of bucks for it, but that kind of efficiency 21 and dependency on lead acid batteries does not make solar 22 energy right yet. .I feel that nuclear energy produced at 23 Diablo Canyon is still a viaolo solution for our current 24 needs.

25 Thank you.

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367 1 JUDGE DECHHOEFER: Thank you.

O 2 Any other person in the audience who wishes to 3 make a statement?

4 MR. FRANK: My name is Fred Frank. I live in the 5 City of Atascadero, and I was born in the City of 6 Atascadero. I would like to thank you for your patience in 7 attending this. Yesterday was a long day, and you showed 8 remarkable endurance. I don't think I showed the same.

9 I would, however, want to address some of the 10 comments that were made previously by the engineer, and I 11 don't profess to be an engineer, but I think the perspective 12 that he reflected is rather narrow. Perhaps, also, even 13 your perspective in terms of the way you store energy is 14 rather narrow, because Diablo Canyon itself is required to-15 store energy in the Helms Pump Storage Capacity, and it is 16 certainly more efficient than lead acid batteries. That is 17 an aside.

18 My wife wanted to testify as well today, but vie 19 have a business in Atascadero, and she had to stay there. I 20 would like to convey some of the words that she would like 21 to have said. She has worked to develop a sustained energy 22 system on our tree farm, and we have'a solar house, and we 23 would like to pursuo energy independence ourselves, and she 24 wanted me to suggest that she would like to see PG&E Work 25 toward a sustainable energy future, and rather.than granting ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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368 1 an extension of the license at this time, she would like to 2 see the NRC work with PG&E to ensure an effective transition 3 from nuclear power to sustainable energy sources.

4 I would like to go on to my statement, and I am l

5 speaking as a retired fire chief. I was the State County 6 Fire Chief in San Luis Obispo from 1982 to 1988. I spent 32 7 years responding to and planning for major fire emergencies.

8 I was deeply involved in the planning and development of the 9 Fire Emergency Responso Plan for Diablo Canyon. I was 10 involved with the Emergency Response Preparedness Plan, and 11 I would have to say that the people I worked with on the 12 ground were very cooperative and professional. I would have 13 liked to have said the management were equally cooperative.

O 14 15 I would like to talk about three major issues, technology, emergency response and planning, and the 16 extension of the license.

17 I am a technology buff myself, and I am not 18 intimidated by new technology. I think that we are going to 19 be required to take advantage of technology in the future in 20 order to pursue a more sustainable energy source. I am 21 afraid that Diablo Canyon represents technology taken to its 22 . extreme.

23 The plant itself has been retrofitted on numerous 24 occasions. It is very difficult to walk through the plant .

25 for the retrofit for seismic safety which, evidently, has l

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369 1 been redesigned about three times. It makes difficult 2 conditions for emergency response within the plant. There 3 are many, many concerns I had as a fire chief in responding 4 to the plant. We had standard operating procedures, and 5 there were accidents. They were euphemistically called 6 " unusual events." We responded to several fires in the 7 plant, some of which could have developed into serious 8 problems.

9 The SOPS were not always followed rigorously, and 10 despite the professional competence of the people involved, 11 we didn't have exactly the level of response from management 12 that I would have preferred.

13 Just to give you an example of the changes, the 14 redundancies and the changes in the methods of building fire 15 protection, I was quite concerned when I came down here in 16 1982 because I had read about Browns-Ferry and the problems, 17 the fire burning in the main conduits that controlled the --

18 that actually contained all the conduits for the mechanisms, 19 and sensors within the plant.

20 The fire burned 11 Browns-Ferry for seven hours 21 out of control, and it was only by some remarkable ingenuity

! 22 on the part of the operators that they were able to control 23 the plant because they had no idea what was going on in that

24 reactor core because al! the sensors had been burned, and l

'S all the supply of power to the recoolant system had been Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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370 1 destroyed by this fire that had been burning out of control 2 for seven hours.

3 I was told on many occasions that we would never 4 have any problem like that at Diablo Canyon because we had 5 thermolag and, of course, there would be no problem. I am 6 sure thermolag is much better than styrofoam which was used 7 at Browns-Ferry but, again, we are looking at a relatively 8 nerrow perspective in terms of the engineering.

9 I am not a fire protection engineer, but I do 10 recognize that there are some serious concerns with regard 11 to emergency response at Diablo Canyon, and there have been 12 accidents. It is an extremely complex huge facility with 13 redundancy on top of redundancy. Most of these redundancies

( 14 are for safety concerns, but often, if you put redundancy on 15 top of redundancy on top of redundancy, you make the system 16 so complex that it is very difficult to manage in an 17 emergency situation.

18 I am afraid that we have gotten ourselves to the 19 point where we really have n technology that has overrun our 20 capabilities for management.

21 I would like to speak to the issue of emergency 22 response and planning now. We are involved very deeply in 23 the development of the emergency response plan, and we went 24 through a number of exercises. The scenarios that were 25- provided by the NRC vere diligently followed, and every Q ANN RILEY_ & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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371 1 exercise van considered to be a success.

2 However, these scenarios were, in some way, 3 superficial, since it is very costly to operate or run an 4 emergency scenario with a depth necessary to really test its 5 capabilities. It was done basically tabletop, and there 6 were a few field observeru in place, but it was never real.ly 7 tested under true emergency conditions, and conditions that 8 would prevail during a natural emergency. The real problem ,

9 was the lack of ground up communications. During the four 10 or five exercises I participated in, I was very concerned 11 that the system would break down under actual emergency 12 conditions.

13 Since I have had experience in a namber of major 14 emergencies, the only thing that you can really say for sure 15 in dealing with a major emergency is that Murphy's Law will 16 apply. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong. The buses you 17 were going to use for evacuation at the time of the 18 emergency will not have batteries because they were in for 19 maintenance, and on and on and on. If you don't have a 20 system that tracks that, and brings that information back to 21 the decisionmaking people managing the' emergency, tha system 22 will break down, and I expect that that is what will happen 23 if, indeed, there is a major emergency.

24 I am not so arrogant as to think that we can 25 manage a plant of that complexity in a situation that is Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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1 fraught with risk. We do live in a state where we have 2 seismic problems, whether it be the Hasgri or the San 3 Andreas or an unknown fault that has not been discovered 4 yet, we do have earthquakes and the plant is vulnerable for 5 many reasons, not necessarily the reactor itself, but there 6 are certainly a lot of subsidiary systems essential to the 7 operation of that plant that could be affected by an 8 carthquake. I personally am glad I am not going to be 9 involved in the management of that incident.

10 Hy final comment on the extension. I think it is 11 totally premature to be considering the extension of the 12 operating permit at this time. We ought to wait until such 13 time as we have better information on what has actually 14 taken place out there. There is more just embrittlement of l 15 the reactor vessels to be concerned with, and I think it is 16 absolutely premature at this point, with a limited amount of 17 information as to the operating capabilities of that plant, 18 to make a decision. -

19 I think also, as was mentioned-last night by many 20 of the people who testified in favor of the extension, that 21 San Luis Obispo is dependent economically on.that plant. It 22 is very true. There are thousands of people employed out 23 there, and largely they are professional people, they are 24 well paid, and they are doing a good job.

25 However, this plant is eventually going to be Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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373 1 shutdown one way or another. I suspect it will be shutdown 2 because it is uneconomic to operate when the maintenance 3 problems become greater as the plant ages.

4 I think the NRC should be working with PG&E to be 5 planning the transition and moving towards a sustainable 6 energy future with PG&E, and ensuring that when this 7 transition occurs that employees will not be displaced, and 8 if they are displaced, they are trained and moved into an 9 area that they would be capable of handling in a sustainable 10 energy mode.

11 We also are very dependent upon Diablo for taxes 12 in this county, and I think that that kind of complicates 13 and clouds the decisionmaking perspective on the part of 14 local government because we are so dependent upon this tax 15 base. That tax base is going to disappear anyway because 16 the depreciation schedule that is being used is 17 inappropriate, and it is gradually disappearing.

18 There should be something done to ensure that 19 there is a method to sustain the services necessary that are ,

20 going to be required to service that plant in perpetuity, it 21 appears, or I don't know how they are going to decommission 22 or what they are going to do with that plant when it is 23 shutdown, but it is going to require services as far as the 24 eye can see, and it is not going go be paying for itself.

25 I think the NRC has a responsibility to the local Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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-s 1 government to ensure that there is a smooth transition, and vb 2 there is some compensation and offset to local governoont 3 when the plant no longer generates the revenue, yet still 4 requires constant vigilance.

5 I would like you to postpone making this decision 6 until you have more informatic.n.

7 Thank you.

8 JUDGE BECllllOEFER: Thank you.

9 MS. WilEELER: My name is Jacqueline Wheeler. I am 10 a 14 year resident of San Luis Obispo, and a member of San 11 Luis Obispo Mothers for Peace, and

• local vocational 12 counsellor.

13 Before I begin my remarks, I would like to thank O 14 the members of the Board for their coming to San Luis O

15 Obispo, for their cordiality yesterday in hearing all sides 16 of the issue. I understand you were here quite late last 17 night, I couldn't attend, but I am sure you were as 18 respectful to those people speaking last night as you were 19 to us yesterday.

20 Before I begin, I would just like to say that many 21 years ago, about six, I think, was the last time, the 22 Mothers for Peace presented what they call -- when we had 23 the stockholders meetings in San Francisco, we would present 24 issues that we wanted the shareholders of the company to 25 consider, and in order to be a party to that, you had to Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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375 1 actually own PG&E stock.

O 2 They changed the rules. At the beginning, you 3 only had to own two shares of stock. I believe they changed 4 the rules -- not PG&E, but the SEC -- and now you have to 5 own about a thousand shares.

6 Anyway, I wanted to thank PG&E because I think 7 those two sharon of stock was probably the best investment I 8 ever made. I still own them, and profits are so high 9 because of the operation of Diablo Canyon that I have made a 10 little money on my two shares. ,

11 But I wonder at what expense that profit has been 12 made for the shareholders of the company. Yes, PG&E has 13 operated this plant at near capacity for the numbers of 14 years it has been in operation, but scientific evidence will 15 show that that increases the aging process of the plant.

16 We are already talking about a plant that was 17 mostly constructed in the late 1960s, and has been 18 retrofitted many times so that many parts of that plant are, 19 in fact, approaching 25 years in age.

20 The fact that the plant operates at such a high 21 capacity factor, in fact, increases the likelihood of l 22 embrittlement, and earlier opportunity than in some plants 23 where the capacity factor is lower.

l 24 Those of us who are residents here in this area 25 question the safety factor of the rate decision that awards 1

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376 1 PG&E profits based on the electricity produced. It is hard 2 to get excited when they say in our local paper that PG&E 3 just set a new record for being downed shorter than they 4 were last time. The refueling took even less time than last 5 time.

6 Great for them, they get to make more profits for 7 the shareholders, and my two shares become more profitable, 8 but at what cost to the safety and the implications of how 9 long this plant can be safely operated in this community.

10 This Boara, as I understand it, is charged with 11 deciding whether any of the eleven contentions presented to 12 you by the Mothers for Peace are worthy of a hearing. I 13 believe that all eleven are worthy of further conaideration.

() 14 15 After all, this is not just a mere formality, as PG&E would have you believe, they are asking, in fact, for 13 to 15 16 years more operations in this area. That means 13 to 15 17 more years of storing spent fuel at a site wnich no one in r 18 this world would have chosen for a permanent watte site.

19 After all, as you have been told by numerous speakers, it is 20 very close to an active earthquake fault, i

21 We are also talking about 12 to 15 more years of 22 exposing the residents of this community to the possibility 23 of an accident. That means that we have to rely on an l

l 24 Emergency Evacuation Plan, which while it has been passed by 25 our local county and other officials, it has been challenged Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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l 377 1 numerous times by both this group and others as being O 2 inadequate.

3 I don't know how much of an opportunity you have 4 had to see our city and our county while you have been here.

5 I know you had a tour, or have a tour planned later on this 6 morning at the plant. You will notice a very long road that 7 takes you from our one highway to the plant. It is a seven 8 mile road. You have to realize there are thousands of 9 people that work 't Diablo, and thousands more who live in 10 the community of Avila Beach. How will those people get 11 evacuated?

12 How will the people get evacuated in Los Osos?  ;

.l 13 When we have a big heavy Winter rain, there are

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14 only two exits out of the city of Los Osos, which is about 15 12,000 people. When there is a heavy Winter rain, normally 16 Twin Bridges, one of the exits, is closed, which means all 17 the people from Los Osos to evacuate have to come into the 18 City of San Luis Obispo, and then on to 101, which is our .

19 major highway.

• 20 So, again, the Emergency Evacuation plan has never 21 been adequate to meet the needs of the population, and we l .

22 are talking about a population how extending into the year 23 2020 and beyond. Everybody knows who reads the paper that i 24 the California population growth is expanding.every day. _

l L 25 This area is ripe for expansion. That means that the ANN RILEY-& ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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378 1 population 25 years from now is going to be quite a bit O 2 bigger than-it is now. There are no plans to build another i'

3 major highway through this area. Therefore, the Emergency 4 Evacuation Plan becomes even less effective as our 5 population grows.

1 6 We also are a community with many elderly people. l 7 As our population ages, we will have more problems trying to 8 deal with those people in an emergency evacuation situation.

9 As I thought about this last night after leaving 10 here, I wondered about a government that would be so clever, 11 and a regulatory body, such as the NRC, thai. vould be so .

12 clever as to remove from public consideration the most 13 important issue that faces us in this matter, and that is 14 spent fuel.

l 15 It is so easy for PG&E to say to us, "Well, it is ,

16 not our responsibility. It is the Federal government's.

17 They said they will take the fuel and, by golly, we believe 18 them." I have been involved in this issue for 13 years, and 19 there has been very little progress made towards-any l

20 permanent repository for this spent fuel. We, on our. side, 21 call it a waste dump. .They call it a spent fuel storage 22 facility.

23 You can talk.about Yucca Mountain all you want, 24 but there is nothing happening permanently in Yucca _

25 Mountain, and the Senators and the Governor of Nevada plan l

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379 1 to fight vigorously any attempt to establish a permanent O 2 waste facility at Yucca Mountain.

3 Even if they did, we have such a backload of spent 4 fuel all over this nation, there is not enough capacity at 5 Yucca Mountain to take what we already have in storage, let 6 alor.e to add 10, 20, 30 mores of spent fuel from this plant 7 and plants around this country.

8 So I realize that that issue is not one that this 9 Board can debate, but it is certainly one that the NRC 10 should take some responsibility for. It is not PG&E's fault 11 that they have no place to send the fuel. We understand 12 that, but they also can't use that as an excuse for saying, il 13 "Let's go ahead and run the plant for another 13 to 15 14 years, because we know the government is going to take that

[)

15 fuel off our hands."

16 It is not going anywhere. It is going to sit on 17 that site forever, and that is what we as a group, and we as 18 a community are trying to impress upon you as a Board, that 19 there are many significant health and safety factors-that 20 are important, and that-deserve a hearing.

21 We have evidence that we would like to submit to a 22 full hearing to prove our case, and I believe that we have 23 the right to that hearing.

24 I thank you so much for your attention.

i 25 [ Applause.]

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380 1 JUDGE BECill10EFER: Thank you. l O 2 Are there any people who wish to make a speech?

3 MR. IIALL: I would like to make several comments.

4 Good morning, gentlemen. I am Ted llall. I am a 5 resident of this county, I live in the five cities area. I 6 have been in the five cities area since 1974. I raised four 7 children there. I still have one living at home, and I have 8 a son and a daughter-in-law and a grandson that live in San a

9 Luis Obispo, so I certainly have concerns about any nuclear 10 radiation that might be released in this area.

11 Obviously, I still live in the five cities area, 12 so my concerns must be somewhat satisfied regarding Diablo 13 Canyon, and they are. I have worked at Diablo Canyon in the 14 past, and I started the first time working there in 1975.

15 Of course, there was no radiation involved at that time, 16 other than, of course, the radon from concrete. There was 17 considerable construction stil] to be done on that plant at 18 that time, and I wondered if I might be considering moving 19 out of the area because of concerns about radiation once 20 that plant went on-line.

21 Through the years, my concerns have definitely 22 been dispelled. I have worked as a craftsman, as a foreman, 23 and as a general toreman in the process of dealing with the 24 engineering, the redundancy of checking on the engineering, 25 the quality control procedures for checking that the work ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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381 1 packages were properly put together, that the proper 9 2 materials and proper procedures were used for installing 3 systems, and I have also been well informed, as all people i

4 working on that site have been, of the possibility for

, 5 accesaing tne NRC if you have any concerns about how that 6 work is being dcne, and that it can be done anonymously, as 7 everyone knows, so you have no real need to be in fear of 8 retaliation. _

9 llaving been a construction wor}'9r many years, I 10 know that construction workeru o not necessarily succumb to

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11 retaliation anyway, but let n .ay this a?ar 12 perspective that I have heard of the NRC lackey 13 of PG&E and the utilities and the power ( ..any out there 14 cc sinly is not the perspective that the people working on 15 that job have. There is a very sincere understanding that 16 the NRC is there to document and to deal with any 17 infractions, any shortcomings, any disregard for the methods 1" and the quality of insta.13ation, and work, and operation 19 there.

20 I just wish that the NRC could enforce coffee 21 breaks for us out there, because believe me, if you get a 22 hold of the NRC, things get checked out. I have seen jobs 23 be red tagged until issues were resolved, if there were 24 shortcomings. If paperwork was not in order, or there was a 25 concern about that sort of thing, they definitely check it g ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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382 1 out. There is no question about it. It gets resolved, and 2 it gets resolved accurately and appropriately.

3 I have gained considerable confidence in the 4 safety of that plant as a result of my years out there. I 5 would also like to speak for the thousands of workere that I 6 have worked alongside out there to say that what I am 7 expressing here is common to most of the workers that work 8 there.

9 In discussions, we have talked about these issues, 10 and we have reflected on the constraints on the 11 installations, and the work out there regarding quality, and 12 we feel very confident in it.

13 C guess it has been a little disturbing to hear 14 comments made chat vould itidicate that workers would

)

15 sacrifice their lives, the lives of their families, their 16 concerns about radiation for their families and their

.s 17 children just for jobs. I don't know of anybody that I have 18 ever worked with that would be willing to do that.

'9 Most of uhe people that I have worked with that zu work there at Diablo Canyon are not working at Diablo Canyon 21 now. 1 am personally not working there. I don't have a job 22 to gain by being here, and making these comments. I merely 23 wanted to come and be able to give comments that are 24 reflective of most of the people that I work with, many who 25 have never been at Diablo Canyon, many pecple who I O ^"" ai'ev S ^ssoci^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 .

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383 1 associate with in the community that I have not seen at 2 these hearings, that felt that the confidence in the plant 3 is such that they didn't feel the need to be here. They are.

4 very confident living and carrying out their lives in this 5 area.

6 I would just support the licensing of this plant 7 to truly reflect the actual years of operation that was the 8 original intent of the operating license.

9 I thank you very much for this opportunity to 10 speak.

11 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Thank you.

12 Any people who haven't made statements previously-13 and wish to do so, we will lead off with those people.

14 MR. MOYNA: Good morning, gentlemen. I am Andrew

{}

15 Moyna with the Building Trades Council of San Luis Obispo.

16 I am an elected representative for Diablo Canyon workers.

17 My remarks this morning will address several of 18 the eleven contentions made by the intervenors as they 19 relate to the building trades workforce employed at the 20 Canyon, My remarks are in no special order.

21 There were any number of questions, the first of 22 which that struck me was the availability of trained,

23. qualified, certified, et cetera, workers into the future tc-24 sustain the qu: 11ty maintenance program. I will tell.you 25 that the international unions are over one century old in

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. 1 this country, that the local building trades charter are a 2- half a century old. We are in the business of providing 3 skilled manpower to the construction industry, whether it be 4 the construction of universities, hospitals, highways or 5 power plants. We are here, we are going to be here ad 6 infinitum.

7 The maintenance program has had a considerable 8 exposure here. I am going to tell you that after 25 years 9 in the construction industry, including the nuclear Navy, 10 that I have never witnessed a more comprehensive program 11 anywhere. The levels of quality assurance and quality 12 control are incredible, and I am not aware of any nuclear 13 related maintenance effort that has ever not gone to 14 successful completion at that plant, or at-any plant. It is 15 a foregone conclusion that those efforts must be successful 16 in order to operate.

17 Questions of material control and. material 18 handling are, as this other gentleman described, the Foreign 19 Materials Exclusion Zone is something that if you work in 20 the industry you must experience. Where you approach an RCA 21 work area and are obliged to literally check in every item 22 of equipment, material, compounds, whatever it may be, it is 23 checked in, upon completion _of the work, it is checked out.

24 The contention that untrained, not certified 25 personnel are working on QA or QC related work, this is

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385 1 nonsense. It is not happening. You cannot gain access to 2 the RCA unless you are fully trained,. fully qualified, fully 3 certified. The key card is the only thing that enables'you  ;

4 to access a radiologically controlled area. The issuance of 5 that key card is predicated on training, qualifications, and 6 certification, and it is routinely checked at multiple 7 levels of access. So untrained people are not doing QA or l l

8 QC related work. It just isn't happening.  ;

9 Fitness for duty, I have a personal statement that 10 I want to make in regards to fitness for duty, which is the 11 drug screening program. That come.ent would be that the 12 general population should be obliged to the same standards 13 of conduct that the workers at Diablo Canyon are. This, and

, 14 all other communities would be much safer places to live if 15 they were.

16 Age degradation, this concept does not exist 17 anywhere else in any construction industry that I am aware 18 of, and if we simply look at the material controls measures 19 of housing, packaging, those exposure questions are negated.

20 It is just not a valid argument here or anywhere else in the 21 industry.

22 Based on performance of the plant which, indeed, 23 qualifies it as a Category I plant, we have every confidence 24 in the hardware, the procedures, the operation, and the 25 personnel, theirs and ours, now and into the future.

O ^"" ai'ev & ^ssoci^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293 3950

386 7- 1 I want to thank you for the time. Please come and 2 visit the plant, you are going to be amazed.

3 MS. JESSBERG: Hello, my name is Elizabeth 4 Jessberg, and I am a resident of this county for ten years.

5 I guess I would like to talk about what happened 6 with my family in terms of radiation related cancer. My 7 mother was in the English Navy, and she was radiated in 8 Cairo, Egypt, in 1942. As a result of that, we hmre had 9 four immediate cases of cancer all resulting in death, 10 leukemia, bone cancer, brain cancer, and breast cancer, and 11 I firmly believe that this is a result of what happened to 12 my mother due to radiation that happened to her. Just, I 13 feel that is something that I have investigated myself, and 14 I know that that has a lot of credence.

15 In terms of Diablo Canyon, I feel like the place, 16 from the start, has been a very unnecessary type of 17 situation because all these people have brought up all this 18 information for years now. I have a lot of -- 1 don't know 19 what to say. I don't want to get emotional about this, but 20 I feel like there are enough people that are bringing to the 21 attention of the Board some of the flagrant wrongs that have 22 been done here.

23 Also, I am going to break my anonymity, I am a 24 member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I was recently in Fort 25 Worth, Texas, and ':here was a guy in the meeting who was on O

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,s 1 the lam from Diablo Canyon because he was wanted by the

( ')

'- 2 police for several drunk driving charges, and he had skipped 3 town.

4 I think a lot of people out at Diablo have drug 5 problems. I am .mt sure if this gentleman is aware of it, 6 but I have lived with people who have worked at Diablo 7 Ca nyor. , lots of cocaine, lots of alcohol Tbuse. It is a 8 very stressful job, and people take it out in various ways.

9 I have two-and-a-half years sobriety, I haven't had a drink 10 since I started the progrem, and I have heard a lot of 11 different stories about people from Diablo Canyon.

12 I would just like to bring that to your attention 13 that I think that we need to postpone a decision, and I have 14 to go to school right now, so I have to leave, but thank you 15 for coming here, and I hope you enjoy your stay.

16 [ Applause.]

17 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Are there further people who 18 wish to make a statement who have not yet made a statement?

19 MR. CHAPMAN: My name is Doug Chapman.

20 Interestingly enough, last evening a gentleman, 21 when he was speaking, made a comment that a lot of the 22 people who were in attendance last night were not from this 23 area, as if that makes a lot of difference. We all know 24 that pollution knows no boundaries.

25 The only reason I am here is, my car broke down on Q ANN RILEY & _ ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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388 !

1 the highway. I am a lawyer from Canada. I worked for the O. 2 Ontario _ government for five years prosecuting polluters, and 3 after that I worked for Energy Probe in their Ontario Hydro 4 Demand / Supply Hearing, which was a hearing to determine the 5 future of the electrical needs for the Province of Ontario 6 for 25 years.

7 At the outset of that hearing, it was the plan of 8 the utility then to build two new nuclear power plants to 9 add to the three that are already there. After one year of 10 that hearing, it became so obvious that nuclear wasn't the 11 way to go, that they completely abandaned their plans to 12 build two nuclear power plants and, in fact, they are 13 considering closing down the plants they have now. Canada 14 has no place to put their radioactive waste either.

15 Finally, I would like to bring to your attention 16 an article in the Epw Yorker magazine, the most recent 17 issue, December 7th, 1992, at page 86, which is an article 18 concerning the high cancer rates at a school in Fresno,

19 California, called the Slater School, and the article makes 20 it quite clear that in the case of this serious incident 21 that PG&E was less than forthright in providing information l

22 to the public.

23- So you are dealing with a utility who has been, in

24 the paqt, not forthright, and I respectfully _ submit that l

l 25 given that this particular nuclear power plant is situated i

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389 1 in a place that can be subjected to earthquakes, and a:Jo 2 resulting tidal waves, that this plant should not continue 3 to operate unless there is a' full and complete public-4 hearing with intervenors, and proper intervenor funding to 5 allow cross-examination, and an opportunity to obtain 6 documents.

7 I submit that nuclear power plants are disasters 8 waiting to happen, and in particular in an area like this 9 that is subject to earthquakes.

10 Thank you.

11 (Applause.]

12 MS. CHOPATHIK: Good morning, gentlemen. I am 13 Carol Chopathik. I have lived in this area for 13 years. I 14 didn't plan to speak this morning, I just planned to come 15 and listen to what other people had to say, but it is a very 16 emotional issue.

17 I grew up in the atomic city, Oak Ridge, 18 Tennessee. I have been around nuclear all my life. I have 19 friends whose fathers did not live a full life because they.

20 got more than the safe dose of radiation at their jobs. -I-21 realize that this is 25 years later, and I realize that the  ;

22 standards have come up.

23 I am not here to judge the workmen at Diablo 24 Canyon. I believe that the majority of those. people do 25 their job to the best of'their ability and as competently as:

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l 390 1 possible. What frightens me is that we have no control over

-O 2 nature, and we all-know that spent waste does not go away.

3 Twenty-five thousand years, come on. I have 4 children. I hope to have grandchildren, and I hope to live 5 to see my great grandchildren, and this is not the place for 6 nuclear. We sit on a fault. It has been spoken of. You 7 have heard this time and again. You knew this before this 8 plant was okayed, and it was okayed anyway.

9 We are tired of corporate who think that money is 10 more important than life. It seems to me that more women 11 are against nuclear because women are the bearers of life, 12 and in this age we arc the ones that raise the children, 13 often without any help from men.

14 I am not surprised that you men don't understand 15 the human factor involved here, and that you don't consider 16 the fact of nature, because you are part of a corporate 17 situation, and always money is more important than life.

18 I hope that you will open your eyes and see that 19 life is all that matters. It is bad enough we have this 20 plant for the length of time that we do.

21 I don't see a problem with out of the area people 22 coming down here last night either, because actually none of 23 us benefit from this nuclear plant,1do we, the energy 24 doesn't stay here. So this is an insue for the whole state.

25- This is an issue for the whole nation. I hope you will take Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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391 1 that into consideration.

O 2 Thank you for being here. Thank you for allowing 3 me to speak.

4 (App'ause.)

1 MR. O'DONNELL: Good morning, gentlemen. My name 6 is Joe O'Donnell. I am a local resident. I am a chemistry 7 student, and I also work for a local utility here in San 8 Luis obispo.

9 Back in the '40s, when the building I resided in 10 was built, I wasn't around, so I don't know if PG&E was 11 around then, but the local power company offered the owners 12 of the building an incentive of decreased electricity rates 13 to lustall only electrical capabilities and no natural gas.

14 Of course, the owners said, " Wow, that is great,"

15 so they did it. Well, that short-sightedness costs a one 16 bedroom apartment tenant over $100 dol'ars a month to live 17 in now, end to retrofit it to natural gas to heat the 18 buildi':S would be an astronomical cost.

19 I, like Carol Jo here, don't want to fight PG&E.

20 I know many of the employees, I know they do a good job. My 21 concern is the radioactivity. It is way beyond the scope 22 that we know how to deal with. Many scientists have stated 23 that -- and these are men who have incredible intellectual 24 capabilities, they have questioned whether we-know what to 25 do with the wastes.

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392 1 I am worried about what is going to happen after 7-

• "/ 2 you and I and the memory of us are gone, and we have these 3 nuclear wastes just sitting and waiting. To this day, we 4 cannot control chemical dumps with just normal chemicals.

5 If we start dumping radioactivity, what is going to happen 6 to that. Is PG&E going to guarantee me that my great great 7 great grandchildren won't become mutated? They can't do 8 that. They can't guarantee that they are going to have the __

9 fundinj to clean up something like that.

10 To produce radioactive waste is insanity. It is 11 killing people. The background radiation levels of this 12 earth are rising. It is known to cause cancer. It is known 13 to cause mutations, birth defects, and many other diseases.

14 Lives are priceless. The billions of dollars that went in 15 to build Diablo Canyon are not worth the lives that it is

( 16 going to cost in the long run.

17 I urge you please, on behalf of myself and all the 18 young people that trust you to ensure them a safe future, 19 have a hearing, listen to the people, try to ensure 20 everybody a safe future. There are alternatives to nuclear 21 power. The waste is what is going to kill.

22 Thank you.

23 [ Applause.)

24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Is there anyone else, otherwise 25 you may get up and add to your statement, your previous O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.

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393 1 statement.

O 2 MR. SIEVERS: Excuse my hoarse voice. My name is 3 Bill Sievers, and I am a resident of San Luis Obispo now for 4 19-and-a-half years.

5 My experience with welding goes back over 25 6 years, and I have a lot of knowledge of that, and I know w

7 from experience with the Alaska Pipeline, and heavy pressure 8 vessels that the thicker you make things, the more -

9 susceptible they are to fractures from heat changes.

10 As far as I understand, the reactor is six inches 11 of stainless covered by 12 inches of carbon steel which 12 makes a total thickness of roughly 18 inches. The steam 13 generator is somewhat less in thickness, from my 14 understanding, and I apologize if my information is 15 incorrect, but I know that when you go through a lot of 16 heat / cooling cycles, there are things that happen in the 17 internal structure of the metal. When you have a.real high 18 temperature on the interior, it takes a while to pass 19 through to the exterior. Also, when it cools, it takes a 20 while to migrate, and when you get that change of 21 temperature differentiation, it is more susceptible to 22 cracking.

23 I was just. arious of what kind of X-tays have 24 been done on the reactor and the steam generators since it 25 has been in operation, or does everyone expect that it is.

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-394 1 just going to last without checking periodically?

2 I know.it probably would be very expensive to take 3 it apart,'and take everything out, and remove all that 4 radioactive material, and drain all the coolant, and put it 5 somewhere to do a test like that, so it is probably not 6- going to be done. That is what my concern is. l 7 Beyond that, what I really wrote last night is 8 what I would like to go through now, the worry instilled in 9 most Americans over the last 30 years has been, will we have 10 enough energy for our needs. If we use more than our ,

11 sustainable renewable energy supply, we are in an energy 12 deficient situation. The current method by which we: buy and 13 sell energy is predominantly this method, a very bad 14 position to be in since it cannot be sustained.

15 our energy policies are, unfortunately, controlled 16 and maalp'11ated by questionable political and big money 17 entities, and an example of a similar abuse is our U.S.

18 economy and our outrageous deficit abuse.

19 Another far more serious is worldwide 20 environmental deficit abuse caused by mankind. One example-21 being accelerated radiation exposure. Soon to be Ex-22 President Bush has misplaced priorities, all deficit abuses

-23 should be our nost important problems to tackle, not the.

24 contrived war on drugs.

25 Quick-bucks lifestyles are' damaging the world, and

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.395 1 benefit only a limited few. We are' borrowing on the future 2 technically, morally, and spiritually. We do not have the 1 right, and must ultimately pay, the cost being the future 4 our descendants, the incarceration and extinction of many ,

5 other plant and animal life forms, this modern age has some 6 benefits, but it is Kiana Scotsi, Life Out of Balance.

7 Paraphrasing the Bible, "Go out and subdue the earth. Be 8 fruitful and multiply. Lat *bere be Light." All those 9 phrases, I am sure you all recognize.

10 Nowhere does the Bible say, plunder the earth's 11 riches, pollute the skies, land, river and oceans, reproduce 12 until judgment day; or make the entire earth glow.

13 We take from the earth every day, 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day, 14 even on Christmas and Super 3 owl Sunday, we leave a gigantic

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15 energy deficit.

16 Biblically, people need rest every seven days.

17 The earth's soil needs rest every seven years. The sun does 18 not need rest. It has been there-for us consistently. When 19 we will realize the sun's power that helped develcp us to

-20 this modern age should be allowed to save us.

21 Historically, solar has proven to be reasonably

, 22 safe. We would not be here if that wasn't true. Presently, 23 solar power's real power is suppressed by those who 24 subscribe to quick money gains and short-sighted views.

25 Solar in the future can provide a well balanced environmera.

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O1 2 What is the most important aspect of living on earth, making money, which I think is a selfish' view, or living a better 3 balanced world?

4 The question of proximity to nuclear facilities is 5 moot. Everywhere on earth is becoming incressingly unsafe .

6 to life as we know it. Anywhere can be downwind or 7 downstream or down current. We are polluting our oceans day 8 by day. Every day additional tons of radiatian are released 9 routinely from nuclear power plants worldwide, rapidly 10 changing the world's environment. Continuing this trend is 11 short-sighted.

12 Unfortunately currently debatable, but ultimately 13 destructive to the environment as we know it, the U.S.

14 should be an initiator and an admirable example for others 15 to not make the same mistakes we have, and are currently 16 making. Human rights around the world are becoming more 17 recognized, widespread and accepted. We must be a leader in 18 use, distribution, sustainability and efficiency of energy 19 and power, solar must be a significant portion.

20 Our weather as we know it would be nonexistent 21 without solar energy. We would be nonexistent without solar 22 energy. If anyone wants a head start for the future of us 23 all,-listen up,_ solar thermal energy conversion, wind energy 24 conversion, tidal energy conversion, solar electric, 25 hydrogen economies, methane collection, plus many others are O ^"" ai'ev a Assoc'^Tes. 'ta-Court Reporterc 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950-

1 397 1 attainable now, if the political and money people would just O 2 open their_ eyes and take a serious look.

3 The sun is out there every day. See the light and 4 make use of it. As Mr. Spock would probably say, "It is the 5 only logical choice." Is the U.S. going to become a second 6 rate competitor in energy use and production, is the fantasy 7 of nuclear energy going to be perpetuated still longer?

- U.S. automakers and economists still can't believe i

9 they goofed up. How could such a thing happen?

10 It is simple, they turned on the high beams while 11 driving the Mercedes in the fog. They were blinded by the 12 fancy technology. It is time for a serious reevaluation (.'

13 our path as humans.

14 Doesn't the Bible say, " Money is the root of all 15 evil, and the earth will be destroyed by fire." Diablo, as -

16 we all know, is a perfect place for a-plant capable of 17 melting to Hades. Take a stand for the future, recommend 18 nuclear facilities worldwide be replaced with sane renewable 19 energy sources as quickly as possible. Say, wouldn't that 20 generate quite a few jobs as well as sustainabic power for 21 the future.

22 Please research any aspects of what I have briefly 23 mentioned to you, and I hope your hands are more reliable 24 than Allstate, although they did cover the $770 million 25 underestimated costs from Andrew.

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398 1 As well know, nuke plant insurance is unavailable, 2 as far as I know. No one will touch it. The odds in Las 3 Vegas, Atlantic City, the Lotto, even Ed McMahon gives-you a 4 chance to win, why can governments rig the game and say we 5 must all play, is that some new form of democracy I have 6 never heard of yet?

7 It is a rigged game, and there are no winners. It 8 is like playing Russian Roulette, it is not a game you want 9 to play for very long, and it is time to change to a 10 winnable game. I hope the honorable members of the NRC and 11 PG&E will give thoughtful consideration to the earth and all 12 its inhabitants.

13 Thank you very much, and happy holidays.

14 [ Applause.] I 15 MS. BOTHWELL: My name is Terri Bothwell, and I 16 live in San Luis Obispo, and excuse ny grumbling voice as J

17 well.

18 I look at you men, and I hope that you are wise 19 enough to see that nuclear power does not have a positive 20 future. I am not a public speaker, and I am not very 21 articulate, so I have written down just five points that I 22 want to bring to your attention -- nuclear waste, 23 catastrophic potantial, alternative energies, short-24 sightedness, and energy versus death.

25 [ Applause.]

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399 1 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Why don't you supplement your 2 statement?

3 MR. PHILIPS: My name is Darryl Philips. I spoke 4 earlier. I am resident of San Luis and a homeowner here.

5 Some people have raised some questions concerning 6 such issues as thermolag, and I have heard of things that 7 have been done at the plant concerning these issues.

8 Thermolag was examined and brought into conformity-with 9 specifications in Unit 1 during the last maintenance outage 10 there, and those areas where it was not safe it was removed.

11 As far as concerns about the reactor vessel, i do 12 know that in the last maintenance outage that PG&F went to 13 the expense of having the core.of tne reactor pulled up and

() 14 15 examined by underwater cameras, so they are examining those kinds of issues. I don't know precisely what they did, but 16 I do know that they did bring it up. I wasn't working in 17 that area, but I do know that they brought it up and ld examined it thoroughly.

19 As far as evacuation from Diablo Canyon is 20 concerned, there is more than one exit. There are two 21 official, and then there'ic a third exit that I know about, 22 but people cannot only leave through the seven mile road 23 down through Avila Beach, they can also evacuate North into 24 Montana de Oro, and a group that I was with last time was-25 one of the groups that was supposed to go North through O ^"" ai'ev ^ ^ssoc'ATes' 'te-CCJd Reponers 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950

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1 Montana de Oro.

0 2 As far as sr ' ;ypes concerning our concern as l

l 3 men for our children, " hough this is not relevant to 4 relicensing of Diablo, I should say that I supported two 5 teenage brothers while putting myself through engineering 6 school because my mother ran off on them, and I think that 7 we men also care for our children, and love them also. I 8 don't think that our testimony on behalf of Diablo Canyon 9 should be disqualified on the basis of claims for any lack 10 of concern for the future.

11 MR. WASSERMAN: My name is Harvey Wasserman. I am 12 the Senior Advisor to Greenpeace. I spoke last night.

13 I will be brief this morning, and I appreciate

/ } 14 your indulgence to speak again. The reason I want to speak 15 this morning is, I spoke with Robert Pollard of the Union of 16 Concerned Scientists this morning. We think Robert Pollard 17 will make an excellent commissioner on the Nuclear 18 Regulatory Commission, stranger things have happened, and we 19 look forward to his pre unce on the Board.

20 He faxed me this morning another event 21 notification, Event No. 24695, seismic trip clips were not 22 installed on the reactor trip breakers at Diablo Canyon Unit t

23 3. They have been missing for several weeks. The licensee l 24 has informed the resident inspector. We are glad to hear 25 that, but the reality is, there continues to be an on-going

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l 401 1 stream of incidents that call into question the ability of 2 PG&E to operate this plant.

3 I recall a moment on August 2, 1991, where I 4 testified in front of Congressman Kostmayer's committee on 5 the Yankee Rowe case. I actually had the honor of sitting I 6 next to Chairman Selin.

7 I saw Chairman Selin in that hearing agree with 8 Congressman Kostmayer that Yankee Rowe would not reopen if 9 the NRC staff found sufficient concern with the 10 cmbrittlement question to not reopen the plant as a result 11 of safety questions, and we were delighted to find that the 12 NRC staff did agree with Robert Pollard's contentions and, 13 as you well know, the Chairman then did agree to shutdown 14 Yankee Rowe, and Yankee Rowe is shut permanently.

15 We hope that similar leeway will come from your l

16 erstwhile Board of Judges on this particular issue of Diablo 17 Canyon here, and I am sure you understand, as people 18 concerned with the legalities, that although most of the 19 testimony has been to whether or not Diablo Canyon should 20 continue to operate, what we are really asking for here is a 21 hearing.

22 We have been in a situation, I think you heva seen 23 the tremendous support for the Mothers for Peace in this 24 community, and we have heard from a number of people who-are 25 supporters of continued operation at Diablo that they are iO ^"" aev ^ ^SSoci^Tes' 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950

h 402 1 grateful to the Mothers for Peace for having raised these O 2 issues over the years.

3 We hope that you will understand that, first of 4 all, this case has great generic ramifications for future 5 complex undertakings. I am not a lawyer, and I haven't read 6 your decision on Vermont Yankee. I am sure it is quite 7 fair, but we are at an extreme disadvantage here. The 8 Mothers for Peace are not lawyers, they have not had the - - - -

9 financial acceas capability to come up with the kinds of 10 legal resources that PG&E has had, and that the NRC has 11 provided on the opposite side of the case.

12 One of our major concerns at Greenpeace, and the 13 other major environmental organizations is that dangerous 14 precedent could be set, essentially through the backdoor, on 15 plant life extension through the use of this recapture idea.

16 As you know, of course, Yankee Rowe has been withdrawn from 17 the plant life extension.

18 There was talk of using Monticello as a lead case 19 in plant life extension, but since Northern States Power is 20 up to its neck with the dry cask issue at Prairie Island, it 21 doesn't look like that is going to happen.

22 What we are concerned about here is that generic 23 law, or at Acast precedent that will be cited in future 24 recapture and plant life extension cases may be made here 25 without adequate resources to counteract the immense O ^"" ai'ev & Associ^Tes' 'ta-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950

l 403 1 resources that have been put up against us.

2 So we want to emphasize, please, that what we are 3 asking for is a hearing, and that if you choose to exclude a 4 significant number, or all of the contentions that have been 5 made by the Mothers for Peace, you may be setting very 6 dangerous precedent which will be referred to in future 7 cases on this recapture issue and, by connection, 8 unfortunate connection, on plant life extension.

9 So we hope that you will look back on the good 10 work that Chairman Selin did at Yankee Rowe, and be 11 flexible, take into account the lack of resources, compare 12 the resources that have been available to the Mothers for 13 Peace, and please be very aware that excluding contentions 14 at this stage of the litigation may set a very dangerous

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15 generic precedent for future recapture cases and for plant 16 life extension cases.

17 I am sure you are well aware of that, but I wanted 18 to emphasize that because this is more than just a single 19 case involving a single nuclear plant here. You have the 20 power, as you stated at the very top of the hearings, among 21 other things because you are the Judge, of course, but also 22 because there is such limited precedent to pretty much act 23 at your discretion.

24 There isn't much precedent in this kind of case, l

25 and what you do here will have tremendous ramifications over l

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404 1 the coming decades in terms of the recapture and plant life l O 2 extensions.

i 3 So we hope you will grant, first of all, the 4 fervent desires of this community, of which I think you have 5 seen the tip of the iceberg, but also the immense personal 6 credibility that has been garnered over the years by the 7 Mothers for Peace, which has_been hampered in these 8 proceedings by a lack of the necessary resources to 9 counteract the very formidable resources put up by the !UTC 10 staff and PG&E. So please think of that as you make these 11 deliberations.

12 Thank you very much.

13 (Applause,)

( 14 MR. SALZGEBER: May I make a comment alno?

15 JUDGE dECHHOEFER: Yes. We were going to close up 16 because it doesn't appear that there are any new people.

17 You may make one very short comment.

18 MR. SALZGEBER: It is about two minutes, probably.

19 Gar Salzgeber, and I am a retired Supervisory Ranger of 20 Pismo Dune Vehicular Recreational Area.

21 As a professional law enforcement administrator, I 22 was given two VIP tours to the Diablo plant.- I feel -- and 23 both times -- the first time I was completely overwhelmed, 24 and impressed wit', the information they gave me. The second 25 time, I left with the feeling that I was given a major dose O ^"" aev * ^Ssoci^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950

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1 of propaganda that had all the appearances of a razzle-2 dazzle smoke and mirrors show. I have to believe that on 3 daily basis the PG&E administrators are giving their 4 employees this type of information every day to keep them 5 highly encouraged to support the plant and the program. I 6 think they are doing an excellent job of that.

7 I am still very concerned about some of the little 8 chinks in the program. When we were developing some of the 9 cmergency operations, or the evacuation plan, there were-10 many times, in fact, I talked to Mr. Floyd, the ex-fire 11 chief, and there were many times when we felt that we had 12 additional inputs in the Emergency Operation Plan or the 13 Evacuation Plan, but we were afraid to pursue them because 14 our careers are in jeopardy.

15 Diablo provides an excellent tax base for the 16 county, and we are highly encouraged by county officials to 17 support that program. I wonder how many other 18 administrators in this county have other information that 19 they would like to input in the program, but they are afraid 20 tb follow it up because their own careers are in jeopardy.

21 Thank you.

22 JUDGE BECHHoEFER: Thank you very much.

23 With that, I think we will cloce the session, and 24' the Board-and the parties have been invited to go.on a site 25 tour. I guess all those arrangements are made.

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406 1 With that, we thank you all for appearing, and

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? participating, and with that we will close the session.

3 [Whereupon, at 10:30 a.n., the hearing was 4 closed.]

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