ML20125E259
| ML20125E259 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Diablo Canyon  |
| Issue date: | 12/10/1992 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#492-13497 OLA-2, NUDOCS 9212160273 | |
| Download: ML20125E259 (137) | |
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0RIGLNA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIFT OF PROCEEDINGS geng.
~
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Co:=21ssion Atotile Safety and Licensing Board
Title:
Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, Units 1 and 2 Public Meeting (Construction Period Recovery)
Docket No. so-275-ou-2 !
50-323-OLA-2 ASLBP No. 92-669-03-OLA-2 O
MN San Luis Obispo, California Thursdzay, Decerber 10, 1192
~
DATE: pm 218 - 351 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, EID.
O- 1612 K St N.W, Suite 300
~LUUL,.) hWgton, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 9212160273 921210 I PDR ADOCK 05000275 ' \[f 'I T PDH +
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218 ,
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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\~e 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 5 In the Matter of: : Docket Nos. 50-275-OLA-2 6 DIABLO CANYON NUCLEAR POWER : 5 0-3 2 3 -O LA-2 7 PLANT, UNITS 1 AND 2 PUBLIC :ASLDP No. 92-669-03-OLA-2 8 MEETING :
9 (Construction Period Recovery) :
l l 10 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x ,
11 12 City Hall 990 Palm 13 San Luis Obispo, California-l 14 [
15 Thursday, December 10, 1992 16 l
17 The above-entitled matter came on for public 18 hearing, pursuant to netice, at'7.:00 p.m.
19 20 BEFORE:
21 JERRY R. XLINE 22 FREDERICK J. SHON 23 CHARLEG BECHHOEFER l 24 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGES l 25 '
lQ ANN HILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd. '
l Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 l
ll L-
......<.y 219 1 APPEARANCES:
2 3 On Behalf of Pacific Gas and Electric Company, the 4 Licensee:
5 6 DAVID REPKA, Esn. lire 7 RICHARD IMCKE, Esquire B CHRIS WARNER, Esquire -
9 10 On Behalf of the Ccamission Staff:
11 12 ANN HODGDON 13 ARLENE A. JORGENSEN, Esquire 14 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 15 Office of General Counsel 16 Washington, D.C. 20555 17 -
18
.17 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Q'" Court Reporters
/ 1812 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 J
220 1 MEM'$Ex5 r 01' "'HE PUBLIC
-( ,-)
b' ' 2
{
3 CORDNER GIBSON, San Luis Obispo j 4 JUDITH EVERED, Santa Barbara 5 ERIC GREENING, Life on Plent Earth, Atascadero 6 DOUG OTIS, Paso Robles 7 WALTER SCHROEDER, Citizens for Adequate Energy 8 JUSTIN GRUNEWALD, Morro Bay 9 BRUCE CAMPBELL, Los Angeles 10 RITA COMP, Arroyo Grande 11 BILL GERST, Paso Robles 12 HARVEY WASSERMAN, Greenpeace 13 JIM GALL, San Luis Obispo 14 RANDY DAVIS, San Luis Obispo v
15 FRANK SHEAHAN, San Luis Obispo 16 EILEEN CAVALIER, San Luis Obispo 17 WILLIAM MILLER, Santa Margarita 18 LIONEL D. JOHNSTON, San Luis Obispo l' FRED FRANK, Atascadero 20 PATRICIA FRANK, Atascadero 21 ERIC DOVER, M.D., San Luis Obispo
, 22 CRAIG KNOX, Los Osos 23 LISEN BONNIER, Los Osos Valley 24 PAT VEESART, San Luis Obinpo 25 Q' ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Re,0crters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 2000G (202) 293 3950
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ = _
221 1 MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC [ Continued):
- l 3 BETTY VanGORDER, San Luis Obispo County Red Cross 4 SID C. STOLPER, San Luis Obispo Plumbers and 5 Steamfitters Union 6 KATHY DePERI, Mothers for Peace 7 CHRISTOPHER CONSTANCE, San D.lis Obispo 8 JASON SCHARA, Greenpeace -
9 RICHIE RAY WALKER, San Luis Obispo 10 MIKE MOWREY, San Luis Obispo 11 ISSAC HORTON, Los Osos 12 PETE EVANS, San Luis Obispo s
33 KIMBERLY MacGREGOR, Los Angeles O 14 RICHARD KRAMZDORF, San Luis Obispo d 15 BARBARA ROSE, Atascadero 16 SHEIIA BAKER, San Luis Obispo s
17 STACEY A. HART, Santa Barbara 18 MYRRH SHAW, Santa Barbara 19- CORALIE McMILLAN, San Luis Cbispo 20 BRETT DORAN, Los Angeles, Greenpeace 21 JOHN VESNOVER, San Luis Obispo 22 JILL FRANDSEN, Santa Barbara 23- RUSSELL RAPPA, Santa Barbara 24 JIM MERKEL, San Luis Obispo 25
_(] ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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222
--. 1 MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC (Continued):
~L/ 2-3 LARRY BROSS, Oceano 4 BILL DENNEEN, Nipomo 5 MARTIN BRAUN, Morro Bay 6 RON RIGUER, San Luis Obispo 7 CHARLES ALLEN, San Luis Obiripo 8 NEAL REYNOLDS, L3s Angeles i--
9 GAR SALZGEBER, Pismo Beach 10 SAUL GOLDBERG, San Luis Obispo 11 SANDI SIGURDSON, San Luis Obispo 12 RAYE FLEMING 13 BARBARA SCHAEFFER
'\ 14 DON HAMILTON (O 15 LARRY GA'RWIN 16 FRANKLIN WAKEFIELD 17 JOHN BECCIA 18 SHEIIA WYNNE 19 20 21 22 23 24
', 25 C ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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p 223 1 INDEX
-2 3 CORDNER GIBSON, San Luis Obispo 229 4 JUDITH EVERED, Santa Barbara 231 5 ERIC GREENIFG, Life on Plant Earth, Atascadero 234 6 DOUG OTIS, Paso Robles 237 7 WALTER SCHROEDER, Citizens for Adequate Energy 239 8 JUSTIN GRUNEWAL.D, Morro Bay 241 -
9 BRUCE CAMPDELL, Los Angeles 242 10 RITA COMP, Arroyo Grande 246 11 BILL GERST, Paso Robles 248 3 12 liARVEY WASSERMAN, Greenpeace 252 13 JIM GALL, San Luis Obispo 260 O
. (,f 14 RANDY DAVIS, San Luis Obispo 261 j
15 FRANK SHEAHAN, San Luis Obispo 264 16 EILEEN CAVALIER, San Luis Obispo 265 17 WILLIAM MILLER, Santa Margarita 267 18 LIONEL D. JOHNSTON, San Luis Obispo 270 19 ERIC DOVER, M.D., San Luis Obispo 274 20 CRAIG IGIOX, Los Osos 279 21 LISEN DONNIER, Los OSoG Val. ley 200 .j 22 PAT VEESART, San Luis Obispo .281 23 BETTY VanGORDER, San Luis Obispo County Red Cross 283 24 SID C. STOLPER, San Luis Obispo Plumbers and 25 Steamfitters Union 284 Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd, Court Reporters 4 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 l
l l
224 1 I N D E X (Continued]
() ,
3 KATHY DePERI, Mothers for Peace 286 4 CHRISTOPl!ER CONSTANCE, San Luis Obispo 289 5 JASON SCHARA, Greenpeace 289 6 RICilIE RAY WALKER, San Luis Obispo 290 7 MIKE MOWREY, San Luis Obispo 297 8 ISSAC HORTON, Los Osos 301 9 PETE EVANS, San Luis Obispo 302 10 KIMBERLY MacGREGOR, Los Angeles 303 11 RICHARD KRAMZDORF, San Luis Obispo 306 12 BARBARA ROSE, Atascadero 312 13 SHEILA BAKER, San Luis Obispo 314
,]
, 14 STACEY A. HART, Santa Barbara 314 G'
y 15 MYR:31 SHAW, Santa Barbara 316 16 CORALIE McMILLAN, San Luis Obispo 318 17 BRETT DORAN, Los Angeles, Greenpeace 320 18 JOHN VESNOVER, San Luis Obispo 323 19 JILL FRANDSEN, Santa Barbara 327 20' RUSSELL'RAPPA, Santa Barbara 329
', 21 JIM MERKEL, San Luis Obispo 330 4
22 LARRY .BROSS, Oceano 335
'. 23 BILL DENNEEN, Nipono 338 24 MARTIN BRAUN, Morro Bay 339 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
f]
Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 l
(202) 293-3950
225 1 I N D E X (Continued]
O' 2 3 RON RIGUER, San Luis Obispo 342 4 CHARLES ALLEN, San Luis Obispo 344 5 NEAL REYNOLDS, Los Angeles 351 6
7 a _
9 10 11 12 13
/ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 y 25 O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters 1012 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
226 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 [7:19 p.m.]
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Good evening, ladies and 4 gentlemen.
5 We are here this evening to hear statements from 6 members of the public concerning the application that is 7 before us, which, in essence, would extend the operating 8 life of the operative license of the Diablo Canyon Nuclear 9 Power Plants froi hetween twelve and fifteen years to 10 conform the plant with the practice of the NRC of issuing 11 licenses for a full forty years, and the original Diablo 12 Canyon Licenses were measured from the time of the 13 construction permits, so they were twelve to fifteen years 14 shorter than they otherwise would be.
[}
15 We have been holding a prehearing conference all 16 day concerning various issues that the Mothers for Peace 17 have sought to raise. Now we are going to listen to 18 statements by members of the public. While these statements 19 are not evidence, as such, we may ask the parties to take 20 certain things into account that are not vtherwise, or have 21 not otherwise been considered or raised by the parties 22 themselves.
23 There are quite a few people here. Normally we 24 limit our oral statements to about five minutes a piece, and 25 we would urge people to keep their statements within that O ^"" ai'ev a ^ssoci^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
227 1 limit or less, if possible, because there are quite a few.
2 We do plan to come back at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow in the same 3 place here to hear further statements to the extent that-we 4 don't finish tonight. The building management wants us to 5 get out of here by no later than 9:30, and I don't know what 6 the general practice is, but we don't think we should stay 7 much later than that tonight. We scheduled it until nine 8 o' clock, but we could perhaps run a few minutes late.
9 With that, we have a number of lists of people, 10 and I will probably go from list to list --
11 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Excuse me, I don't know if 12 you were told, but the person in charge of the building said 13 we can stay until at least midnight, if you were willing.
14 [ Applause.]
}
j 15 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: I rise on a point of proper 16 procedure. Many of us have come from quite a distance out 17 of town, and there are some people from Los Angeles, et 18 cetera, and some of us will not be able to be here tomorrow.
19 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I would ask those people to 20 identify themselves, and we certainly will call upon them 21 early on this evening.
22 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: I wonder if that is fair to 23 the local people, or what do the people want to do?
24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: We thought we would mix up the i
25 groups of people, but certainly people who would not be able Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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1 228 1 to.come back tomorrow morning, I think, should be given a 2 chance tonight. As I say, we did not expect as many people i
3 to show up.
4 [ Applause.]
5 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: We would like to hear you all.
6 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: As I say, you are the one 7 who will make that decision, but the person in charge of the ,
8 building that I spoke to before said he would be willing to 9 stay until at lecst midnight, if the chair was willing to 10 stay until then.
11 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: We may stay a little later than 12 we had planned, but we are not sure how late. We have been 13 going kind of all day ourselves, and we will have another
~'i 14 session tomorrow, but we would like to hear-from people who (G
15 really can't come back tomorrow morning.
16 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Can we pass around a sheet 17 for the people who are outside who haven't been able to 18 sign-up?
19 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I can start another sheet. We 20 will start another sheet.
21 To try to get some sort of order, we will call the 22 first person on the list who wrote in first, and that would 23 be Mr. Cordner Gibson, is he here?
24 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: What about the out-of-25 towners, what is our procedure, Judge?
'Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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'(202) 293-3950
229 1 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I thought that the first person s
2 on the first list that came in ought to be heard first, for 3 whatever that is worth.
4 I don't know who this person is, I don't even know 5 whether he is out of town or in town.
6 MR. GIBSON: My name is hard to pronounce, I am 7 sure. C-o-r-d-n-e-r, Cordner Gibson. Is that the name you 8 have on the list?
9 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Yes.
10 MR. GIBSON: We are all set.
11 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Proceed with your statement.
12 MR. GIBSON: The Mothers for Peace and those other.
13 organizations that are against nuclear power are protesting 14 again, as you can see. We know what their issues are, we-15 heard them eight years before Diablo was licensed. We have 16 heard them over and over. The facts are that the operation 17 was delayed for fifteen years primarily because of the 18 protests of the Mothers for Peace and the other anti-19 nuclear organizations.
20 [ Applause.]
21 MR. GIBSON: The issues they bring again are not 22 new. It is a safe plant that is being safely operated. The 23 ratepayers deserve to have Diablo operate for the full forty 24 years.
25 To assure the plant is operated safely, a Diablo Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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i l
230 1 Canyon Independent Safety Committee was established as an O 2 oversight committee. They have held seven meetings in San 3 Luis obispo. Unfortunately, the Mothers for Peace have 4 elected not to attend those meetings, but I certainly would 5 urge their participation.
6 This committee has made some changes in the 7 plants, and feel that the plant is operating in a very safe 8 manner. In fact, as you already know, I am sure, the .+
9 Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Senior Managers have placed 10 the Diablo Canyon in the top four of the safest plants in 11 the United States.
12 I don't understand really why these groups are so 13 anti-nuclear. While they are still fighting with PG&E, the 14 plant is well-maintained, it receives a tune-up overy 15 eighteen months, just like your car, all parts are checked, 16 complete maintenance is done, and whatever needs replacing 17 is replaced. . Instead of fighting all the time with PG&E, I 18 wish these groups would put some energy into working with 19 PG&E to support other energy efficient ways to generate 20 electricity.
21 Closing the plant down is not a viable answer, it 22 would be a major negative economic impact on San Luis obispo 23 County. It would be a loss of some job opportunities, a 24 thousand people work at that plant regularly, and when they 25 are refueling, they have 3,000-jobs and 3,000 people. The Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
l 231 (p
'-)
1 major loss would be as a tax resource. Property and related ;
2 taxes amount to some $60 million that this plant produces, 3 and San Luis Obispo County receives 25 percent of the taxes -
4 collected. If this plant were to close, it would certainly 5 be a catastrophic loss to this county.
6 Our CAE Chapter, Citizens for Adequate Energy,-
7 supposes PG&E's request that the Diablo Canyon operating 8 license expiration dates be changed for Unit 1 from April 9 23rd, 2008, to September 22, 2021, and Unit 2 from December 10 9, 2010, to April 26, 2025.
11 Thank you.
12 JUDGE BECHHoEFER: The next person I will call --
13 not everybody is listed where they are from on the list
() 14 15 here, but Judith Evered from Santa Barbara.
enough out of town to count?
Is that far 16 Step up and make your statement.
17 MS. EVERED: I am Judith Evered from Santa 18 Barbara.
19 Of course, a nuclear power plant is a little more 20 complicated than an automobile, and I would really strongly 21 urge the panel to decide on a full hearing regarding the 22 licensing of Diablo Canyon because the latest U.S.
23 Geological Survey has shown that the earthquake fault near 24 the plant is a lot more dangerous than previously thought.
25 That it is a thrust fault and not a slip-shift one. On that C' ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
232 1 basis, I think the plant should be fully reinvestigated. q 0' 2 The fact, too, that they waste management and 3 disposal has not been perfected, that it has not been 4 finally settled that it can go to Nevada, nobody wants it.
5 In 1957, there was a terrible accident in Russia, 6 and nobody really knows what happened except that it was at 7 a waste disposal place because they kept doubling it up and 8 it overheated, so the storage on-site is not a good idea.
9 It doubles the danger, and that connected, too, with the 10 earthquake fault is a very frightening thing to a lot of 11 people in this area and all the way down to Los Angeles and 12 up to San Francisco.
13 The controversy over the thermolag has not been i 14 settled, and I think the HRC concerns over that matter s
15 should be shared with the public as well as the solutions.
16 We need to know, and this is one more important reason why 17 this should not be the last hearing.
18 Many improvements were made because of the 19 protesters in 1980 and '81. I was part of that protest, and 20 I was told by workers at the plant that because of the 21 protest the plant was made much more safe, that shaky wells 22 were found and corrected. Therefore, I-strongly urge _that-l 23 you do investigative work on things like the poisons that 24 have been put into the ocean, the mercury, whether it is in 25 the food chain that people are eating now, whether the Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
233 1 arsenic and cadmium, and the other ocean dumping has harmed O- 2 the nealife there, and also whether the heat from the plant 3 is ruining the marine life. We need to know these thinge.
4 The other thing is that around the plants in the S East, like Shippingport and Mill Hill, there is an increase 6 of cancer the closer to the plant you get. So we need those 7 figures in this area. We need to know if cancer has 8 increased closer to the plant or further away.
9 So there is a new climate of openness coming with 10 the new Administration, arad I think that would suit very 11 well this process whereby everything is shared with the 12 public, PG&E, NRC and the public get together for consensus, 13 and to sort out the problems, because economically it will 14 be more feasible to know what you are going to do with the 15 plant when it finishes, to count that cost in with the cost 16 of the electricity now. It is not cheap power. It is 17 really expensive.
18 I think that with all these pojnts, you are bound 19 to get satisfaction for the common good to have a proper 20 hearing.
21 Thank you.
22 (Applause.]
23 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: We were trying to figure out 24 which ones were out of town, and which ones weren't.
25 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: If the person called on to Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
~ T L
--234 1 speak is local and can come back tomorrow, that person my_
2 pass..
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER:- Let's try that.
4 The next one is Eric Greening.
5 [. Applause.)
6 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Could you call three names 7 at once, so that we could kind of move it along a little 8 faster? +
9 MR. GREENING: I would suggest that because of the 10 size of the room, it gives other people time to get lined up j 11 behind the podium, actually get through the crowd and out 12 here.
]
13 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I will call Eric, and then I 14 will call Doug Otis, and then 7 will call Tom Maxwell.
15 This is sort of arbitrary, but I am taking off of
'4 16 different lists that filed at different timen, so those are "
17 the next three.
u 18 MR. GREENING: I am Eric Greening of Life on 19 Planet Earth in Atascadero. .
20 I would like to speak to the lothers contention on 21 emergency planning and earthquake concerns, and add my owa 22 concerns that you probably-haven't heard. .,
23 It is my-contention, based on new information, 24 that the continued operation of Diablo Canyon will'make any 25 earthquak'e in this area far more lethal than it needs to be, ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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!' 235 I recommend g) s U
i even if no radiation escapes from the plant.
2 thut you read an article by Stewart Brand ir. the Autumn 3990 3 issue of The_.Mhqlp Eqr.th_ Tiny.if24, it is called Learning frou 4 the Earthquake. That is the 1990 Autumn 1990 issue of The 5 B.g.lg fa;j;h_J1pview.
6 He happened to be in the Mission District of San 7 Francisco at the time of the Loma Praeda Earthquake, and 8 participated in the rescue effort to save people trapped in 4
9 collapsed buildings. What he learned was that for the first 10 hour er two after the quake emergency response is largely in 11 the hands of neighborhood residents, and that as police, i 12 fire and paramedic services arrive in the area, they don't 13 so much take charge as supplement with their expertise and 14 equipment the citizen response that has already organiz6d.
G] 15 lie also learned to assume that any collapsed 16 building had living people trapped in it, people who could 17 he rescued if citizens made the effort to search, and 18 citizens did make the effort. The competence and caring of 19 neight ors makes for truly a heartwarming story. The 1 20 response of the citizens of West Oakland was even more 21 heartwarming as they collected tools and went to the rescue, 22 not of neighbors, but of people who just happened to be 23 passing through on the freeway that blighted their 24 neighborhood.
25 These are stories unlikely to be repeated here as O ^"" ai'ev & ^ssoci^Tes, 'te-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 l (202) 293-3950 l
236 w 1 long as Diablo Canyon operates. In the event of a major
\~ 2 carthquake, the fear of radiation is likely to override 3 life-saving neighborliness, whether the sirens are going or j 4 not, whether radiation releases are reported as occurring, 5 possible, or nonexistent, citizens here know that radiation 6 is invisible, and they are used to deception and false i
7 reassurance. How many people vill LAnger to search for l
l 8 trapped neighbors when the first thought on everyone's mind 9 will be evacuation.
10 Of course, if evacuation is ordcred in the 11 aftermath of an earthquake, whether based on escaping 12 radiation or only the possibility thereof, that evacuation 23 will have a serious price in deaths, to the extent that 14 citizens and public nafety personnel are diverted from
(
15 searching for the trapped.
16 Another concern about evacuation, current plans 17 are premised on the assumption that most people have private 18 cars at their disposal. For the early decades of the 21st 19 century, that assumption cannot be'made. One reason is 20 demographic, elders are likely to make up a much larger 21 percentage of the population than they do at present, and 22 many elders give up driving.
23 Another reason has to do with the mandates of the {
24 Clean Air Plan, as well as the various economic and 25 ccological trends that are likely, by the next century, to O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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237 1 have brought about a modal shift from the private car toward 2 walking, bicycling atui public transit. Such a shift will 3 nave lives from auto accidents and respiratory problems, but 4 how many lives will it cost if an evacuation is necessary 5 and many citizens are unable to evacuate themselves.
6 For these_ reasons, and given that our 7 understanding of the geological underpinning of California 8 has been undergoing rapid evolution cvery since the Coalinga.
9 Quake surprised everyone by occurring on a fault that shows 10 no surface manifestation, given that previously unknown 11 faults are still being discovered even in such well examined 12 areas as downtown Los Angeles, given that our understanding 13 of the behavior of known faults is also changing rapidly, 14 given that we cannot anticipate the geological knowledge UN 15 that will be available after the turn of the century, it is 16 extremely premature to lock in a time extension that could 17 endanger our descendants.
18 Thank you.
19 [ Applause.]
20 MR. CTIS: Hello. My name is Doug Otis. I am an 21 L.A. dropout and a San Luis Obispo dropin.
22 I spent about three years working as the head of 23 engineering in a disk drive company, and I_ learned a' lot 24 about shelf life of components. I am speaking to the idea l- 25 that components do fall even by sitting on the shelf. We i
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238 1 have soon a lot of metal mass nigration in electronic l 2 components, acrowed terbinal oloctrolysis of dissimilar 3 metals, metal cryctallization.
., one classic exarcple is, we became ambitious and l 5 ordered a vaut quantity of diskn. Wo stored them in a Class l l
6 100 Clean Room. The air in it was temperature controlled l l
? and humidity controlled, and we found that our failure rate 8 was ( ntermined by the point of purchase, not by the 9 operating tino of the disks.
10 We also disccvered that microproccusors failed at 11 almost a preset interval, which indicated it didn't really l 12 matter how long the processor was used, simply it mattered 13 how long had it boon since it was mado. ,
14 Owing to the fact that there is a set limit in the 15 'icense th:* ays at 40 years you want to stop granting 16 operating pt to, it says that there in-a predetermined 17 point in time where it is no longer safe to continue 18 operating without reevalut.'ng the operation conditions of 19 the plant.
20 I would suggest that a serious consideration 21 should be made as to the shelf life of these components, and 22 that a seriour engineering undertaking be made to make sure 23 that the falhro rates of those components don't increase 24 toward the end of this operation period.
25 We have seen that airplanes fail with simultaneous O ^"" ai'ev a Associates Court Reporters ta-1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300
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239 1 engine failuros towards the end ofl their service life, which 2 indicates that the risks are not a constart that every year 3 la not the same as the first.
4 In talking to another point, I talked to PG&E 5 about a year-and-a-half ago. I spoke to a follow named Joe 6 Ionucci at their research and development, and asked him 7 what other rosearch are they doing on alternative energies, 8 and specifically asked him about solar-thermal. He uaid 9 that they waren't interested in that. It wasn't a sexy 10 technology, and ho likened it to kissing his sintor.
11 I talked to Sandia National Laboratories and I 12 have information from the California Energy Commission that 13 shows that those technologios today will provide energy at 14 less cost than we are now paying Diablo.
15 Effectively, by continuing ruclear power, you are 16 preventing tnese new technologies from being ht,rn.
17 originally, your need or your service to the United States -
18 was to bring an infant technology into heing, but I think 19 really now your job is to put it to bed and allow these new 20 technologies to occur.
21 (Applause.)
22 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Mr. Moxwell, who I mentioned 23 carlier, is he here, Tom Maxwell?
l 24 [Ho response.)
25 JUDGE BEClllioEFER: Walter Schroeder, and after you
-(] ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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240 1 the next one I will call will be Justin Grunewald, so he can O 2 prepare to come up after yod. .
3 MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Chairman, my name is Walter P.
4 Schroeder, Coordinator for the Citizens for Adequate Energy, 5 a local organization of 335 dues paying members.
6 centlemen, three points are presented for your 7 consideration. Eleven hundred Diablo Canyon power plant 8 employees live in San Luis obispo County, their families are 9 here, they are part of this community. They caro about San 10 Luis obispo County. They are as committed to keeping the 11 plant safe as all the rest of us. Many of these people are 12 known to me, and they are the best in their fields, highly ,
13 trained, highly educated, and highly committed. I trust 14 them to keep the plant in a safe operating condition, and to 15 know, if conditions need repair, then fix them. If highly 16 competent employees are not enough, the NRC has two 17 responsible experus on-site to see that Diablo Canyon is 18 operated safely.
19 The second point, the NRC is a function of the 20 United States Government. The NRC is required to know the 21 problems and make judgments on the behalf of all of us.
22 "afety is number one in those judgments. The NRC has vast 23 resources at its disposal to make sound decisions. The NRC 24 has an excellent record for being responsible to our 25 society.
O ^"" ai'ev & ^ssoci^Tes. 'id-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293 3950
241 1 The third point, the NitC has authorized more than 2 50 nuclear power plants in the United States to extend the 3 maturity of their operating licenses with no fuss. Diablo i 4 canyon, with its t m v,4 n'. ting record, deserves the 5 authorization to operate Unit 1 until September 22, 2021, 6 and Unit 2 until April 26, 2025, to equal the original 40 -
7 year licensing period.
t 8 Our group, the Citizens for Adequate Energy, 9 supporta PGIE's requent to extend the license.
10 Thank you for this opportunity to upoak.
11 (Applause.]
12 MR. G1,4NEWALD: Hi there. My name is.7ustin 13 Grunewald. I am a high school student in Morro Bay.
14 As a high school student, I don't really have an 15 credentials for this except that I have been wearing a gas 16 mauk all day, and I can say it is not pleasant. I don't 17 vant to have to do it for the rest of my life, and I have 18 two little brothers, and I don't want to see them doing it '
19 for the rest of their lives.
20 Also, I have been going to seminars the last 21 couple of nights, and most of the information I have here 22 comes from one of those seminars where a woman named Jan ,
23 Kirsch spoke from Physicians for Social Responsibility, und 24 I think I could say that she was the fastest speaker I have #
25 ever heard in my life, right on top of everything.
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242 1 Everything she said was an incrediblo joke, or all the 2 questions, none of them seemed to phane her, and she took 3 one look at the figures for the amount of radiation 4 routinely released from Diablo Canyon, and what she said 5 isn't fit to say here, but afterwards she spent about five 6 minutes leaning back in her chair shaking her head, just 7 numb.
8 I can't imagine anything but shutting Diablo down 9 for really truly being responsible to the people of this 10 area, but I think that the one question that comes to my 11 mind when I see the fact that they are trying to extend the 12 liconoe 15 years without even having a hearing is, what 13 happened to democracy.
14 I would like to close on another of Jan Kirsch's 15 wonderful words, and that is "No more radiation without 16 representation."
17 Thank you, e
18 (Applause.)
19 JUDGE '3EClil!OEFER: Next I will call on Druce 20 campbell, and fo:ilowing that I will call on somebody called 21 Rita Comp, so we can be prepared.
22 MR. CAMP'3 ELL: My name is Bruce Campbell from Los .
23 Angeles.
24 Probably a number of you have noticed an upsurge 25 in seismic activity in california lately, have you, and, in Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd, Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
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I 243 1 fact, on the whole Pacific Rim.
O 2 Anyway, let's go back to October 15th, 1979, there 3 was an earthquake in Imperial Valley, I think it was about a 4 6.6 quake, and it had unusual readings of vertical ground 5 acceleration and a seismic focusing effect such that the 5 Nuclear Regulatory Commission decided to have hearings of 7 the Atomic Safety and Licensing Appeals Board at the Vets i 8 Memorial Building, and some of us camped out at those 9 proceedings, and caught every word of theln.
10 Even though it was somewhat of a stacked 11 proceeding with the per> nuclear witnesses having like six or ,
12 seven witness, and a couple of the intervenors, including 13 Dr. Brune of San Diego, but also Drs. Luko and Trifunak of 14 the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, they testified 15 that if there was a similar seismic focusing effect at 16 Diablo Canyon and a 7.5 quake a few miles offshore that 17 there 's no way they could testify that the reactors could 18 withstand the shock.
19 So they go through the procedure of allegedly 20 listening to us, and then, a month before the seismic 21 decision was issued by the ASLAD, Chairman Salzman got 22 appointed to a Federal Judgeship by Ronald Reagan, not 23 exactly an anti-nuclear president.
24 I contend that that hearing was stacked, and that 25 there was a scaadalous decision coming out of it because, if O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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244 1 Chairman Salzman was unbiased before, which I doubt, he 2 certainly wasn't unbiased once Reagan appointed him. So, 3 thus, those are two great reasons for a thorough seismic 4 investigation now, and a shutdown in the meantimn.
5 Also, because the construction began so long ago, 6 of course, with faulty design, and contractors cutting 7 corners, and things, it was virtually antiquated by the time 8 they began operating, so, obviously, this dream of assuming 9 moderate to major seismic activity and the perfect machine 10 is obviously ridiculous.
11 Also, Westinghouse, I have an article here on 12 their major problems up at the Trojan nuke in Oregon, and 13 they had a recent radioactive steam leak, and the NRC even 14 granted them a waiver to operate with too many leaky steam 15 generator tubes because there was a ballot measure to shut l
16 it down up tl. ore, and they didn't want to. Then they acted-17 like, we will phase it out by '96, like that was a 18 compromise, but they are operating virtually illegally. ,
19 Westinghouse steam generator problems are 20 inherent, how can you know what will - the.y should be j 21 checked immediately. How can you conclude how the steam 22 generators will be in the year 2007, or 2020. It is p
l 23 preposterous.
24 Then also, Diablo rates are arranged so that PG E i l
25 will koop running it, keep running it, even if they should -
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245 I shut it down for a problem, so the rates should be
'O 2 reshuffled so that PC&E considers safety first.
3 obviously, it is the Atomic Safety and Licensing I
4 Board, and they consider licensing. I think safety is sort 5 of in the backpocket, if that. The;' are promoting the :
r 6 industry.
7 Also, remember the Sandia Lab study back in '82 of 8 the reactor accident consequences, a computer simulated 9 study, and they refused tc release the worst case reactor 10 accident consequences, but Congressman Markey in 11 Massachusetts got a hold of them, and this is pretty close 12 to them. For Diablo, I believe it said that in a worst case 13 accident with the worst care of weather patterns that 13,500 14 people could die in the first year, about 16,000 or 18,000
(
15 eventual cancer deaths, ar.d I believe it is $152 to $158 16 billion in property /.amago.
17 If people act like they are concerned about a 18 thousand people out at the nuke, you are not concerned about 19 them, they are gettir.g poisoned, and their genetic future.
20 It is strange that San Luis County is ccnstructing, in the 21 five cities area, the most downwind you can get from the .
22 nuke.
23 For all these reasons, Diablo Canyon should be 24 closed now, have immediate seismic investigation, and don't l 25 even consider a ridiculous extension. Like, if they granted l
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246 1 all these extensions with no fuss, obviously it is a stacked O 2 deck, they are not considering -- there are not generic 1
l 3 reactors in this country, they are all individuals, and, t 1
4 obviously, they could careless about any individual reactor, j i
5 they just want to help that industry out. l, 6 So let's shut Diablo Canyon down now and have an 7 immediate seismic investigation.
8 Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
10 MS. COMP: Good evening. I am Rita Comp. I am a 11 retired teacher, and a grandmother, and a freelance writer.
12 I would like to show the people who have inquired 13 about getting the cancer statistics for tricounties. This
() 14 15 is the booklet. You may all call the Cancer Tumor Registry tomorrow, if you wish. Here is the phone number: 805) 681-16 5136.
17 This is the cancer rate for a three-year period:
18 Lung cancer, which is the highest rate of all cancers that l 19 we have experienced in San Luis Obispo County, CTR Report '
I .
20 indicates SLO County lung cancer had dropped by 16 cases 21 from 170 cases reported in 1988. That is 30 percent above 22 the State average in 1988. It dropped to 154 cases in 1989.
23 The lung cancer preliminary report for 1990 reveals another increase of 13 cases.
i 24 This news brought little assurance to 25 residents hoping for a consistent substantial drop since the O ^"" si'ev ^ ^SSoci^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 y,e w- -W---
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247 1 1988 data disclosed tricounties region leading the State 2 with the highest lung and breast cancer rates. We are the 3 downwind tricounties of San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara and 4 Ventura.
5 Dr. Jan Kirsch had this to say last night: "I 6 would like to invite pC&E, the missing members of our 7 debate, to make the rounds of my clinic so that they can get 8 a gut feeling of what they are creating, and to answer the 9 question, is the tradeoff of cancer worth the power which is 10 quito expensive, the electric power."
11 She also said, when handed a sheet of paper that 12 had the information in 1990 when seven Curies of radiation 13 were released within a three-month period, she said, " Holy
( 14 shit, that is a lot of radiation." I bet you have heard
)
15 worse at Diablo. I know in the classroom I have heard 16 worse. This is of holy emphasis, and I hope that it is 17 heard soundly throughout the tricounties region.
18 We are seeing our friends die. I have lost-a 19 friend from lung cancer last year, and there are three now 20 near death. I have talked with a woman at the Nazarene 21 Church in San Luis Obispo who said, "We are getting afraid 22 to look at each other, nearly all of us have cancer and we 23 are wondering who is going to be next."
24 We-are talking about murdering people. You are 25 murdering our young children. I have taught these children Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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248 1 many years, and I don't believe that we fully understand 2 what a human being is. A child is a multidimensional 3 powerhouse of abilition and talents, not to be exploited and 4 destroyed by nadmen, and what you do to our sacred planet S earth you must know will return to you.
6 Do you think all of this is happening unwatched 7 and unrecorded. Even USA Today had an-article on Say Hello 8 To Your Guardian. There are guardian angels changing tires 0 for people and making beds for them. The angels are around, 10 my triends, and they know what is coming down.
11 Please, I implore you to rethink this. IISA Today 12 had not gone bunkers. There is also an excellent program on 13 Saturday night called Miracles and other Wonders, they are p
a 14 happening all over this nation. Let us tune into this, and 15 thank the Goddess that they are returning.
16 I am sorry. I do not wish to take more of your 17 valuable time. I love you, Goddess.
18 (Applause.)
19 JUDGE LECill10EFER: Next will be John Donovan and 20 after that Bill Gerst.
21 MR. GERST: My name is Bill Gerst. I am from the 22 Paso Robles area, Alhambra and Pacifica. I am a farmer. I 23 use PG&E power, and Canada, once and a while, when it goes 24 out.
l 25 Irregardless, I give the Mothers for Peace credit i f'}
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249 1 for their works that they have dono in the past, and they v 2 have done some good, and I will never deny that a bit, and 3 anybody else in this room.
4 But we have to have power, and PG&E has been able 5 to supply it with the Diablo plant. Thank goodness it has 6 been there these last few years that have been dry as far as 7 urban waters are concerned coming out of the dams in the 8 Sierras and such. If it had not been for Diablo, I forget 9 what the pc.rcentage is that they do supply with Diablo, but 10 it is a high percentage with regard to the plant.
11 Actually, we do have a need for water, and the 12 only way we are going to get it is through the dams and, of 13 course, if the dans don't provide power, like they haven't 14 been for a few years, we are going to have to rely upon 15 nuclear power, or something that is clean such as it is.
16 I realiza what the people are saying behind me, 17 and their concerns, and I give them their full due, but for 18 now let's get the extension of this-thing going so that wo 19 can keep the power going. We don't have any more big dams 20 that are going to go into the system, that is for sure, 21 because they are not going to be allowed to go on to the 22 waters any more, probably.
23 So, thank you gentlemen. I am glad you came to 24 San Luis Obispo to give us an opportunity to speak.
25 [ Applause.]
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250 1 JUDGE BEClillOEFER: Frank Drake, and then after 2 that a liarvey Wasserman.
3 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: I am reading a prepared 4 statement by Frank Drake, who is retired from PG&E, and was 5 also the San Luis Obispo City Chamber of Commerce Citizen of 6 the Year last year. Mr. Drake apologizes for not being able 7 to be here, but he is on a community service project in 8 Morro Bay.
9 Members of the Board, please consider the 10 contributions made by Pacific Gas and Electric and its 11 employees to the well-being of this community. Please note 12 that PGLE has been a good neighbor in every sense of the 13 word. Be aware of the positive values which PG&E has 14 enhanced in San Luis Obispo and the neighboring areas.
15 Pacific Gas and Electric has been a leadar in funding for a 36 multitude of worthwhile organizations and causes, both 17 directly by corporate donations, and indirectly by 18 supporting the efforts of its employees to better the >
19 community.
20 To my knowledge, organizations such as United Way, 21 llotline, llospice, Special Olympics, AdCare, the San Luis 22 Obispo Children's Museum, Achievement flouse, the Women's 23 Shelter and Rape Crisis, only to name a few, have been major 24 beneficiaries of PG&E and its employees, and the schools.
25 There are those in the community that have Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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251 1 expressed that the company's offorts to do good are O 2 motivated by guilt, or are cheap attempts to buy goodwill.
3 If this were the case, the simple action of throwing some 4 dollars at a token number of community needo would suffice.
5 Instead, PG&E and its employees have actively sought
- 6 participation in every positive aspect of community life.
7 Among the instances that I can cito in which PG&E 8 and its employees have responded to acute community needs is 9 the flighlight organization. liighlight provides the 10 community with 24-hour telephone crisis intervention, 11 information and referral, senior services, and acts as an 12 afterhours answering service for many crisis agencies.
13 Highlight's principal source of revenue, as we all 14 know, in through the Highlight Bowl-a-thon, which bowlers 15 obtain pledged amounts from friends and associates based on 16 their bowling scores. PG&E is a major source of support in 17 this fundraising effort. Management, employees, and other 18 workers give freely of their time and money to this event 19 which, by the way, has raised over a quarter of a million 20 dollars in the last two years.
21 Pacific Gas and Electric and its employees have l
22 been making contributions to the United Way campaign. PG&E, l
23 itself, funds such as activities as the San Luis Obispo
{
24 Symphony and other community betterment activities, such as 25 the children's Museum, i
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L 252 1 Hany PG&E employeen use vacation days to assist at 2 the annual Special Olympics meet which has close to 500 3 special participants. The employees are permanent 4 fundraisers for the ba becue which raises over $8,000 5 annually. We have stresso.i the contributions of the PG&E 6 employees, those-who, of their own freewill, assist in-7 bettering the conditions in this community, but not for the 8 company. Corporate policy supporting employees' causes is -
9 shown by gifts of supplemental aide such as donating 10 computers, and In many cases seed funding, and underwriting 11 for nonprofit organizations and agencies.
12 Please bear in mind that these contributions have 13 been made by the shareholdec, not by the ratepayers. It has 14 been a privilege for Lc ,2 acknowledge PG&E'n community 15 services based on my personal knowledge and observation, and 16 to assure you of the sincerity and the officacy of PG&E 17 actions. S 7
18 Thank you very much.
19 (Applause.)
20 JUDGE BECill10EFER: Mr. Wasserman.
21 MR. WASSERMAN: I am Harvey Wasserman.
22 [ Applause.]
1 23 MR. WASSERMAN: I am-the Senior Advisor to the 24 Greenpeace Nuclear Power Campaign. Greenpeace, nationally, 25 has more than 1.4 million ciues paying members, more than 4
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253 l 1 million worldwide. I have been working on nuclear power 2 issuen sinco 1973. That is almost 20 years, and I have four 3 children and I am speaking on behalf of them.
4 First of all, I want to compliment on the three 5 Judgea here with all sincerity. I have been working on this 6 issue for 20 years, and I have never seen a panel of judges 7 behavo more responsibly, more respectfully, either to 8 intervonors or to the public, from the Nuclear Regulatory f
9 Commission or from the Atomic Energy Commission, and wo 10 thank you for your courtesy, and we trust that will 11 translate into a proper judgment on the 3ssue at hand.
12 I also want to compliment the PG&E lawyers, you 13 are very slick, and I certainly you are paid by the 14 shareholders, and not the ratepayers.
15 I also want to say a word, I don't engage in 16 personal attacks, but I am deeply disturbed by the presence 17 of attorneys and other staff from the Nuclear Regulatory 18 Commission's staff arguing in favor of Pacific Gas and 19 Electric here. This is unconscionable that you are here 20 acting as an advocate for the utility on taxpayer money.
, 21 The Nuclear Regulatory Commission, from the very 22 start, has acted as an advocate for the titilities that they 23 arc supposed to regulate. It is unconscionable, and 24 particularly some of your attitudes towards the intervenors 25 on a personal level today, which I watched during the Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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l 254 1 hearings, was absolutely unacceptable.
2 We have a new Administration in Washington, and 3 hopefully we will successfully be able to go after some of 4 your jobs in the future, because you have no right being 5 here, acting like that towards citizen intervenors who pay 6 your salaries to regulate the utility that you have come 7 here to advocate for. That is not acceptable behavior in a 8 democratic society.
9 Today I listened to most of the testimony in the 10 afternoon. I heard, among other things, on the legal side Il that the PG&E lawyers continually refer to the remedy that 12 we would have in the future, or allegedly have in the future 13 of a 2.206 process. I think everyone here should be well 14 aware that the 2.206 process, which is essentially the 15 temporary restraining order process under the Atomic Energy 16 Act within the NLC process is, we have, as citizens, 17 citizens groups, have filed more than 80 2.205s over the 18 course of its existence, as far as we know. We did a survey 19 not long ago, it was about 86, but I think more have been 20 filed, and I think you are all well aware, those of you who 21 are familiar with NRC processes, how many of those 2.206s 22 have actually been granted. To my knowledge, it is none.
23 You may know one or two. I have never heard of a 2.206 24 being granted.
25 Until 2.206s start being granted, I don't think it O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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255 1 is admissible that any judicial panel can count the 2.206 as 2 a viable remedy for any challenge to NRC regulatica or 3 procedure. The 2.206, basically, to coin a phrase, is a 4 joke. We have no recourse within the NRC process, if the 5 2.206 is our last court of hearing. So I hope that, in your 6 deliberations, you will not count the 2.206 as a viable 7 process because it is not.
8 There are also innumerable technical questions 9 that have yet to be answered about the current operation of 10 Diablo Canyon, let alone the future operation. We have 11 operated for a number of years under the presumptions under 12 the license, the operating license, that thermolag, which is 13 in upwards of 80 plants in this country, was a workable fire 14 protection system. This plant was licensed with the idea 15 that thermolag would work, or something of its equivalent 16 would work.
17 Now, all of a sudden, we have this new invention 18 called Fire Patrols, where staff of the plant is essentially 19 running around with fire extinguishers watching for fires.
20 We heard today, as admitted by the PG&E staff, that they ,
21 missed some of these patrols. Is this reassuring?
22 How many of these issues -- when will the 23 thermolag issue be satisfactorily resolved, and will it come l 24 into play in the future extension of this license, are we 25 looking at another few decades of PG&E staff running around Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters l l
1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 i
"mi _ mm.Amm2. 2 .a __m M.. aA% - s. .b & a -+ed= . --e'= - . - J 256 1 Diablo Canyon with fire extinguishers?
2 How much is allocated for running shoes in the 3 PG&E budget?
4 This is not a viable fire protection system, and 5 it is certainly not allowable under the license, and should 6 not be allowed in the future, and certainly should not be 7 allowed as a -- really, with the failure cf thermolag, all 8 those plants with thermolag in them should be shutdown under 9 the technicalities of the licensing procedures, and 10 certainly no plant with thermolag should be granted a 11 license extension.
12 We also have had new information come out just in 13 recent months on the evacuation situation. We know that the 14 Turkey Point, the second best named nuclear plant in the
}
15 country, the plant in South Florida, was hit directly by 16 Hurricane Andrew. We understand -- I have been down there.
17 I have done a view of the place there, there is absolutely 18 positively no possibility that the Turkey Point area 19 downwinders could have been evacuated in the midst of the 20 hurricane.
21 As you are probably aware, the Federal Emergency 22 Management Agency asked that the reopening of Turkey Point 23 be delayed until the evacuation plan could be restudied in 24 the wake of the hurricane, and the hurricane was_different l 25 rom the potential earthquake here in that there was warning, l
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257 1 and they were able, almost, they didn't quite make it, to O 2 get the plant down into hot shutdown before the hurricane 3 actually hit.
4 As you are well aware, we would have no such 5 warning here, and I urge you very strongly to look very 6 closely at what happened at Turkey Point, look at the FEMA 7 documents, look at the evacuation planning before the 8 hurricane in relation to after it, and see how that relates 9 to Diablo Canyon because we have had an incident now of a 10 major natural disaster hitting a nuclear power plant, and 11 the evidence is not reassuring in terms of evacuation.
12 We also now, to get down to the real business 13 here, we are seeing a utility company asking prematurely for O 14 a license extension deep into the next century, and they U
15 have come up with this phrase " recapture,*' they want to 16 recapture the years that we in the anti-nuclear movement 17 allegedly cost them by forcing them to look at the safety 18 issues of this plant.
19 One thing I would like to ask, and you should 20 certainly consider it in your deliberations, are they also 21 trying to recapture the year that they lost because they 22 built this plant with blueprints that they read wrong?
23 [ Applause.)
24 MR. WASSERMAN: As you will recall, just prior to 25 the opening of this nuclear power plant in the early '80s,
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258 1 someone discovered that they had read the blueprints wrong, !
I 2 and it took them a year or more to figure out what to do -
3 about it. Is this part of the recapture, are we to blame 4 for their loss of e. year because they couldn't read their ,
5 own blueprints, and certainly are we to be reassured by the 6 fact that they built this plant with an inability to read 7 these blue prints.
8 We also know that these plants, the Westinghouse 9 plants, are suffering serious problems with steam 10 generators. We haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, and 11 we are going to be finding out more and more about these 12 breakdowns. As we also know, plants that have been 13 approaching 20 years of age, in other words, half as long, 14 operating half as long as they want to operate Diablo 15 Canyon, are now shutting down pretty much of their own 16 volition, or their own accord because they are not holding 17 up to the stresses of radiation exposure over the long-18 term.
19 I cite you the Trojan Plant in Oregon, whose 20 owners, the other PG&E, Portland Gas and Electric, have not 21 admitted that they will shut before 1996. Fort St. Vrain in I
22 Colorado, which is caused through a different manufacturer, 23 but it has shutdown. San Onofre Unit 1, which went down by 24 the own volition of its owners last month, within the last 25 couple of weeks, and, of course, Yankee Rowe, which was the l
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259 1 flagship of the plant life extension process, and has been O 2 shut now by accord of the NRC staff, I might add, a welcome 3 exception to the general rule, because of the embrittlement 4 factor. How much of this is going to come into play as 5 Diablo Canyon approaches the critical 20-year operation i 6 point. Hopefully it won't get that far, but if it does, let 7 alone the 40-year.
0 Finally, we also have the question of need, and 9 what PG&E in its arrogance is saying here is that deep into 10 the future there will be no replacement for nuclear power 11 and for Diablo Canyon. I suggest strongly that you look at 12 the developments in Sacramento. This article from the L2a 13 haceles Tingg about S. David Freeman, and I actually have 14 one coming out in the Los Anceles Times Syndicate as well.
15 The reality is that Diablo Canyon, right now, in 16 1992, is obsolete technology. It is technology that doesn't 17 pay.
18 (Applause.]
19 MR. WASSERMAN: In terms of need, there is no 20 justification based on increased efficiency and conservation 21 technologies which are coming in at one to three cents a 22 kilowatt hour, much, much cheaper than they can operate 23 Diablo Canyon, even without capitalization costs.
24 Renewable energy sources such as wind, tidal, 25 geothermal, photovoltaic and power tower technologies, among ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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260 1 others, are also coming in much cheaper, certainly wind and 2 all the others, I am sure, will follow. What PG&E is saying 3 is that no matter how cheap it gets to generate electricity 4 from other sources, we are going to stick with this nuclear 5 plant, and you are stuck with it.
6 So, in conclusion, basically, thank you for being 7 so courteous. It is a welcome relief. Hopefully it signals 8 a new age at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I hope you 9 will go back to the staff and remind them of who you really 10 work for.
11 Thank you for coming, Judges, we appreciate it, 12 and please shut this plant as soon as possible.
13 (Applause.)
14 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I will call next Jim Gall, and 15 then Randy Davis after that.
16 MR. GALL: Well, it is a pleasure to talk to all 17 of you. I would like to say a few nice things about PG&E, 18 and I just left the YMCA and there is about 22 kids playing 19 basketball on a court right now because of PG&E. There is 20 an exhibit at the Children's Museum because of PG&E.
21 I live on Terrace Hill, and there is a hill right 22 now defaced, I think, because of some of you out hare that 23 put "No Nukes" on a hill that defaces the hills of San Luis 24 obispo.
25 I really want to kind of also congratulate the O ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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261 1 Mothers for Peace, and the people that made nuclear power 2 safer than it would have been other than your commitments, 3 but also I want to encourage you to maybe do more. If you 4 could take some of your energy and put it into kids, and 5 senior citizens, and the mentally retarded more than you are 6 doing tonight against PG&E, it would be appreciated.
7 MR. DAVIS: My name in Randy Davis. I live at 8 1534 Osso Stroot. I am a native of this county, and there 9 are not too many of us around here.
10 I find the discussions about the good PR work that i 11 PG&E does to be ludicrous at best. We don't send our 12 children out and whore them when our families are having 13 trouble making ends meet. It is not the responsibility of
() 14 15 PG&E to prop up the economy around here.
First of all, I would like to comment on the 16 statements released by the council for Energy Awareness 17 which Rita had spoken about earlier. The article is 18 entitled The Gender Gap Men, Women and Nuclear Energy.
19 This article posits that women are biased against the 20 nuclear industry because of their deeply held distrust of 21 science and technology. Evidently, this is because they are 22 not supposed to be able to follow the arguments that are i
i 23 presented.
! 24 I believe that women's supposed distrust of 25 science and technology may be rooted in the fact that women Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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262 1 have a much closer connection to life and death than any 2 number of PG&E's scientists and engineern have ever had. We 3 here in this community are fortunate to count the Mothers 4 for Peace and Kathy DePori among our numbers.
5 [ Applause.)
6 MR. DAVIS: I havun't seen a woman on these NRC ;
7 panels for a while, but I have to applaud the presence of 8 your three female -- it is obvious that NRC and PG&E have no 9 morals, just good PR.
10 In light of the recent report released by the 11 Cancer Tumor Registry which shows that the tricounties area 12 downwind of Diablo Nuclear Power Plant leads the State and 13 the nation with new highs in leukemia and mortality rates, I
() 14 15 believe that your panel has no choice but to deny the license extension. Instead, they should begin an 16 investigation in how it is that PG&E spawn has put our 17 central coast on the map, unfortunately as a leukemia 18 hotbed. The NRC, by their actions up to this point in time, 19 anyway, share in this guilt.
20 I wish you could move beyond the legal jargon and 21 look at the reality, the bottom line is that there is no 22 safe way to dispose of all this waste, yet PG&E asks us to 23 continue to generate this waste which is going to poison our 24 earth for all our children to follow.
25 Evidently, you men do not live here, you don't O
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i 263 1 play your golf at Diablo, and maybe you are not golfers, you
(~')
\' 2 don't need to worry about your kids, or their kids, getting 3 more than a suntan at Avila or Pirates cove or Pismo Beach.
4 This should not be a qucation of extending a 5 license, it should be a question of protecting the people 6 from the cancer causing precipitant that rains down upon 7 them. The people are more important than the profit margin .
8 of a corporation.
9 [ Applause.)
10 MR. DAVIS: We have seen great changes in the 11 world about us as of late, and this issue give you, the NRC -
12 panel, and opportunity to help lead America in a responsible 13 future. We, the public, must not be made to pay for PG&E's 34 building from reversed plans, or lying even to this day 15 about the Hasgri Fault, or any of the other design errors.
16 Other criminale don't get extra time to abuse us once we 17 find the error of their ways, why should we allow PG&E to do 19 no.
19 I ask you to play your part in leading our country 20 into a new age where we become responsible, where morals and 21 common sense prevail over public relations and corporate l
22 greed.
23 If, by chance, you abrogate your responsibility to 24 the innocent public, I propose that you also forego your l.
l 25 salaries, which I believe are probably paid by us, the t
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264 1 people. I propose what you do is, you let PG&E give you 2 what you need to survivo.
3 We ask you to protect us from that,-and lead us 4 into a new future. What is happening out there is a sin, 5 and it is unpardc>nable acts of violence against all the 6 poison and its offacts on future generations.
7 Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 JUDGE BEClil10EFER: Frank Sheahan next, and then 10 Eileen Cavalier, if I am pronouncing it right.
11 MR. SilEAllAN: llello, my name is Frank Sheahan, and 12 for the past 20 years I have lived in San Luis Obispo. In 13 fact, I live about a half a mile from here. Not in Los 14 Angeles, and not anywhere else, and I must be in the 15 minority because I do feel safe. I have raised a family 16 here, and I intend to live here for the rest of my life, and 17 I am not threatened by what is going on.
18 I do think that hearings such as this are
+
19 necessary in order to ensure safety, but I have worked and 20 seen and interacted with the PG&E people, and I have seen 21 their dedication and their professionalism, and their 22 concern for themselves, for their families, for their 23 neighbors, and everyone else that they are associated with, 24 and I really believe in their sincerity.
25 I will be very brief. I own KVEC Radio, which is Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
265 1 a news talk station which is charged with being the 2 emergency broadcast system for San Luis Obispo County. For 3 those of you that are unaware, that isn't something that we 4 receive compensation for. In fact, it is an honor and a 5 privilege that we take very seriously in being responsible 6 to notify the community of any danger, particularly as it 7 pertains to Diablo Canyon.
8 We do tests periodically, and during the course of 9 the testo in working with the PG&E personnel, and with the 10 County Emergency System personnel, it is incredible to me 11 the concern that they have towards ensuring that every 12 possible avenue is addressed, and that is what leads me to 13 believe that we are correct in extending, or at least
() 14 15 proposing the extension of this Canyon, and this power plant.
16 I understand it has been judged to be in the top 17 four safest in the country, and I believe in the people, and 18 I think that is what we have here, the people, and I will 19 say again, I feel safe.
20 Thank you very much.
21 (Applause.)
22 JUDGE BECHHoEFER: I called Eileen Cavalier, and 23 after that a William Miller.
24 MS. CAVALIER: Good evening, my name is Eileen 25 Cavalier, and I welcome the opportunity to be able to stand Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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i 266 7-~g i up and say in public that I want to have the opportunity to N_) 2 have a hearing about the continued operation of Diablo l
1 3 Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. I opposed the opening of the 4 power plant, and the things that I have heard since it has 5 been opened have only increased my concerns about living in 6 a community with a nuclear power plant this close.
7 I have been active in this community. I have 8 served on city advisory boards. I have helped start 9 different organizations that are currently operating in the 10 commr'ity, and I have an investment in living here, as I 11 think that there are a lot of people here that do.
12 one of my major concerns is about some of the 13 increasing evidence about what happens with low-level 14 radiation concerning our health. My understanding is that w
15 there is new evidence that shows that continued doses of 36 low-level radiation, such as those that are released at a 17 nuclear power plant, pose more of a health risk than does a 18 high sudden dose, not in too high doses, obviously, but in 19 terms of the continued wear'on membranes and tissues, and 20 this comes from the Dr. Jan who spoke, who is a member of 21 Physicians for Social Responsibility on current research 22 that is being done 23 I don't want to take up any more time, but I would 24 like this to be reviewed seriously in the consideration of 25 continuing the operation of the plant.
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267 g-- ; 1 Thank you.
- 2 (Applause.]
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: William Miller.
4 MR. MILLER: My name is William Miller, and I am a 5 resident of Santa Marr.arita.
6 I have spoken in front of this group -- excuse me 7 for being out of breath, I just came back from putting away 8 the PA equipment, we had a real nice rally down the street 9 just a little bit earlier.
10 (Applause.]
11 MR. MILLER: I work in the broadcast industry in 12 San Luis Obispo and have since 1980. 1 wrote a good portion 13 of the Emergency Broadcast System Plan as is now implemented -
14 for San Luis Obispo County, and I speak at some peril to 15 myself here, and would like to preface this by saying that 16 the people in the County Office of Emergency Services have 17 done the best they can with the Emergency Broadcast System.
18 But, that being said, we do not now and have not 19 had a completed Emergency Broadcast System Plan since I 20 began working on the Emergency Broadcast System Plan in 21 approximately 1782. The Emergency Broadcast System Plan is 22 a key element U4 our evacuation plan here for manmade 23 potential hazard, as well as natural disasters.
4 I_have spoken in front of the NRC before, I have 25 spoken in front of Rusty Arias with the State Legislature Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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268 1 when they examined earthquake preparedness after the Ioma O 2 Praeda Earthquake. For the record, I will give my phone- !
l 3 number and address, and I have in the pest, and it seems 4 ironic to me that being involved in the Emergency Broadcast l l
5 System Plan, as I have, that I have failed to get on any 6 mailing list for the County Office of Emergency Services, l
7 and the NRC nor Rusty Arias, nor anybody has called me to 8 ask to look into any of the complaints that I have about the 9 Emergency Broadcast Plan.
10 The County has contacted me, and we have met 11 briefly, and I have asked to be included in on-going 12 meetings on Emergency Broadcast System planning, and have 13 not yet received any notification of any on-going nectings, t
14 The broadcast industry is such that there is no
[
15 money to be found in broadcast budgets to take care of l
16 emergency planning. PG&E has introduced a modicum of money 17 that has gone for auch things as a backup generators, and 18 other kinds of equipment that broadcast facilities find as a 19 luxury, but a generator in place does not constitute a plan.
20 As an example, the common program control source 21 has been changed. It used to be KVEC shared with KSLY. I 22 understand through the grapevine that the common program 23 control source, number one, the most important EVS Station, 24
- hat status has been e. warded to another station without any 25 official notification.
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269 1 There are many other holes in the emergency 2 broadcast plan. There has been some work accomplished, but 3 it is like a chain, unless you have overy link in place, you 4 do not have an Emergency Broadcast System. If you do not 5 have an Emergency Broadcast System, the whole evacuation 6 plan falls apart.
7 So with all due respect to those emergency 8 planners that have been working on it, with all due respect 9 to the broadcast industry, there is no money in the 10 broadcast industry, there is no compliance in the broadcast 11 industry.
12 My phone number is (805) 438-5600. My address is 13 P.O. Box 14244, San Luis Obispo 93406. The name again is 14 William Miller, and I will be pleasantly surprised if
[
15 anybody is interested in this and wants to follow through.
16 Thank you.
17 [ Applause.)
18 JUDGE SHON: Are there still some people who 19 cannot possibly come back tomorrow who have signed'up on the 20 sheet here?
21 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
22 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: We can stay all night 23 tonight. We work hard.all day, just as you gentlemen do.
24 We can stay all night. I would like to spe-%.
25 (Applause.)
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270 js 1 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT! Just go through the list.
2 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: I was the fourth on the 3 list and I have not been called.
4 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Pardon?
5 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: I was the fourth on the 6 original list, and I have not been called yet.
7 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Well, I don't know which list 8 is the original, and which isn't. There were several lists 9 simultanaously.
10 MR. JOHNSTON: I was after William Miller on the 11 list when I signed my name up, so I will talk right now, and 12 you guys look at the list.
13 If you can't figure out how to list people in 14 order, how are you going to make this decision about Diablo j}
15 Canyon.
16 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I tried to make it convenient 17 to sign-up.
18 Are you Mr. Johnston.
19 MR. JOHNSTON: I am Johnston, I am, and I am from 20 San Luis Obispo.
21 I would just like to say, in my background, I 22 spent 25 years working as a heavy construction worker, as an 23 ironworker in Arizona, Nevada and California. I worked at 24 Diablo a couple of times. I worked at the Helms Project, a 25 compenion project four times. Big buildings, bridges, dams O ^"" ai'ev a ^SSoci^Tes' 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
271 1 and power plants, that is mostly what we did. '
2 When I was working out there, you know, they had 3 already put the thing together without taking into account 4 that the Hasgri earthquake fault was there, or that it 5 really needed to withstand more than a magnitude 6.5 6 earthquake, or something like that. It is pretty obvious to 7 anybody now that that is pretty low. Those things are 8 happening all over the place. We live on the edge of a 9 tectonic plate. It is moving. It is rock-and-roll out 10 chere, baby.
11 I don't want to fault PG&E. I think they were ,
12 really kind of shoved into this, and stuff, and they are 13 just trying to make the best out of it. The truth of the l-14 fact is that other technologies have come along, and really 15 have replaced the need for so much power consumption. It is 16 kind of like the buggy whip industry in 1900, those guya 17 just did not want to give up manufacturing buggy whips, but 18 people had cars, and how are you going to keep them down on 19 the farm after they have seen Paris, right.
l 20 So I think Diablo is kind of stuck in that 21 situation. The world is changing real fast in technology.
22 The problems that nuclear power plants have are becoming 23 increasingly apparent, and also the nature of natural 24 destruction is becoming pretty more obvious. I see a couple 25 of bad scenarios for Diablo, having worked there for months, l
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-3 and walked on the beaches, and stuff._ one is a big tidal 2 wave. There is plenty of geologic evidence that 80 and 90 3 foot tidal waves have been common place, and one of them 4 took out Crencent City, California, right after the 1964 5 Good Friday Earthquake up in Alaska. That was a 6.8. That 6 is not that big. It doesn't have to be that big. It is the 7 nature of how the carth moves that causes seritus damage.
8 The freeway in Oakland, you know, was foolproof.
9 Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, and'it 10 just happened to be just the right distance from the Zianti 11 Earthquake, and the harmonics just destroyed it. Other 12 freeways in San Francisco of a very similar design were 13 angled at a different direction and escaped it.
14 Basically, we don't know. We don't really know.
15 When I was working there, it was obvious to me that PG&E 16 wasn't sure what they were doing because we would build '
17 something, we would get a big wall built, and it would be 18 all finished and everything, they would come along and red 19 tag it, and three days later we would be taking the whole 20 thing apart, and say redesign. We would put it all back
. 21 together and change one or two little things, and it would 22 be like that for a while. Sometimes we would change-things 23 two, three times, four times.
24 The Helms Project, they designed a rock collar, a 25 thousand foot shaft that completely collapsed under the O
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273 1 floor. Many people were killed in that, seven guys got 2 killed, and that is just the nature of fallible human 3 engineering. I don't mean to impute any bad motive on any 4 of the parts of pG&E or the engineers, or anything like 5 that, but it is big huge complicated machine sitting out 6 there, far beyond the capacity of any real -- technology is ;
7 not perfect, and humans aren't perfect, and it is just 8 sitting in a real bad place.
9 I don't think that you .thould think about 10 extending the license at this time. It seems to mo a little 11 odd, the timing, why would they come now, so far ahead of 12 time, asking for an extension of this license. I think
.13 probably what you guys should do is say, "Look, this is 14 something that is going to affect the next 10,000 15 generations," my grandkids, and their grandkids, and I think 16 you should put off a decision on this.
17 Go back, there is a new Administration coming in, 18 there is a whole new wave of new technology, energy saving 19 screw in fluorescent light bulbs, and refrigerators that use 20 20 percent of the energy that the old ones used, why not 21 give this stuff a chance.
22 Basically, it-means more work for Americans.
23 Diablo is a big centralized power structure. It is subject 24 to sudden destruction by a natural catastrophe, or sabotage.
25 We need to go to a decentralized energy system that draws ANN HILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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l 274- ,j its energy from many_different points so that if there is a
~O k/ 2 catastrophe in one place, everything still keeps working.
3 I thank you for your time, and all I can do is ;
4 urge you to go back to Washington and say, "We are not 5 capable of making this decision now because we don't know 6 enough. Let's wait two or three years and see what 7 happens."
8 Thank you. ,
9 { Applause.]
10 JUDGE'BECHHOEFER: Fred Frank and Patricia Frank, 11 both of whom are from out of town.
12 MR. FRANK: I could defer until tomorrow morning, 13 and let some of the people'from out of town go forward.
14 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: I thought from your address you 15 vere from out of town. I am sorry.
16 Eric Dover.
- 17 DR.- DOVER:
Dear members of the NRC,
my name is 18 Dr. Eric Dover. I am a physician here in ban Luis Obispo.
19 I am speaking out against the extension of Diablo Canyon 20 Nuclear Power Plant's operation license at this time or any 21 time in the future.
22 This nuclear facility should_be shutdown as_ ,
23 scheduled or sooner. There are.a-number of reasons for 24 this, most of which have_been succinctly outlined in the 25 Mothers for Paace; petition. -I know a lot of people weren't ANN RILEY & - ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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. 1 familiar with thut, they weren't here this afternoon. I 2 would like to just go over a few of those very quickly.
3 Number one, PG&E lacks a sufficiently effective 4 and comprehensive surveillance and maintenance program as 5 noted by the NRC itself.
a 6 Number two, some of PG&E's employees have not 7 proven themselves skilled, reliable, or motivated.enough to a protect public safety. This includes incorrectly performed u 9 calibrations, missed fire watches, and numerous other 10 incidents deemed by investigators to be secondary to 11 personal error. These have all been noted by the NRC.
12 Number three, PG&E has not-taken adequate measures 13 to detect the presence of fraudulently certified components, 14 nor have they demonstrated the capability of preventing the 15 acquisition and use of such counterfeit parts in the future.
16 The NRC }; nows this is a widespread and prevalent problem 17 throughout the nuciear industry and that Diablo is not 18 exempt.
19 Number four, there is little information on the 20 effect of age related degradation of systems, structures, 21 and components to extend PG&E's operation license. As 22 components age, the probability of an accident increases. ,
23 Number five, thermolag material, a supposed fire 24 barrier is, in fact, a rigid combustible material that, in 25 the event of an earthquake, could shear wires it surrounds,-
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276 1 thus causing a fire and burning with it. I 2 The areas using this material are patrolled 3 hourly, but some areas are not accessible to humans and are, l 4 therefore, surveyed by smoke and fire sensors, and 5 sprinklers. As noted by the NRC, fire patrols have boen-6 missed, sprinkler systems have been inoperabic at times, and 7 fire doors have been purposely disabled by pliers and tape.
8 For a nuclear reactor, thic safety system is a joke. The 9 thermolag should be removed and replaced, or the reactor -
10 shutdown.
11 Number six, PG&E's inability to properly store and 12 handle hazardous and radioactive materials, this includes 13 improper labelling, handling and storage as noted by the 14 NRC.
15 Number seven, there are unsolved problems of 16 radioactive waste storage. Yucca Mountain is the only site 17 being considered, and on July 29th, 1992, there was an 18 earthquake of magnitude 7.0 approximately. The mountain 19 sita upon a large aquifer. The State of Nevada is fighting 20 the use of this area as a radioactive waste storage site, or 21 dump, as I like to call it. The storage capacity of this 22 site is only 70,000 tons. Yet, with the current licenses, 23 there will be 75,000 tons of nuclear vaste needing storage.-
24 The Federal government states it is not legally obligated-to 25 take this nuclear power _ plant waste in 1998, as it was O ^"" ai'ev ^ ^ssoci^Tes. 'ta-Coud Reponers 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (200) 293-3950
277 1 previously thought. Diablo Canyon is quickly becoming a
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\/ ) 2 nuclear waste disposal site, 3 Number eight, PG&E's emergency preparedness 4 program is inadequate as demonstrated by the August 22, 5 1991, exercise conducted by FEMA which cited numerous areas 6 needing correction. On2 example is that PGLE has no plans 7 that adequately address road blockage in the event of an 8 earthquake. Road blockage problems were seen at Turkey 9 Point during Hurricane Andrew, at least they had prior 10 notification of the hurricane and could shutdown the 11 reactor. We won't even have that luxury in the event of an 12 earthquake.
13 We havc opened up a Pandora's Box with nuclear
/~' 14 energy. Uranium mines leached toxins into our environment.
(.)) 15 Nuclear reactors release toxins while operating, and the 16 result in " spent fuel" is a storage nightmare. We don't 1
17 want a nuclear waste depot in our backyard.
We don't want a 18 nuclear disaster in our backyard either.
19 Whatever man makes " foolproof" eventually unravels 20 and shows our shortcomings. Look at Three Mile Island, 21 Chernobyl, the Russian nuclear submarine sunk off the North 22 European Coast, and the near meltdown one month ago in Japan 23 only stopped by the lasts backup system.
24 As outline above, Diablo and any nuclear reactor 25 on this earth are ticking timebombs. If you examine the Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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278 1 facts, there is no way you can legally or morally think of 1 2 extending PG&E's operating license at this time.
3 We are tired of the Federal government forcing 4 nuclear power down our throats. Let our communities decide 5 without the influence of PG&E's propaganda machine what we 6 want in our country.
7 obviously your jobs are dependent up on the 8- continuation of nuclear power, so you should not bo the ones 9 making these decisions fcr us. We are the ones who should 10 be making these decisions.
11 [ Applause.]
12 DR. DOVER: You are allowing tha creation of the 13 'most destructive pollutant we have ever known. All it takes 14 19 one spec to kill a human, and it lasts for over 10,000 15 years. All this because we refuse to conserve and choose to 16 waste. Please, don't make me worry an additional fifteen 17_ years about having to treat the sick and dying of a nuclear 18 debacle.
19 This gentleman over here does not' live in this 20 area, you do not live in this area. This gentleman is a 21 paid gun for PG&E. When he leaves here, he doesn't give a 22 damn what happens to this area. He goes back to'his-area 23 where-there are no nuclear power plants, he-is not concerned 24 .aboutnevan-what PG&E cares about, all he is concerned about-25 is what goes'into his pocket. he is a lawyer, and his only ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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279 1 concern la money.
2 This lady over here is a lawyer, and she doesn't 3- care-about'us. She-is sleeping through the testimonies. I 4 have seen her. She gets up here and she puts down the 5 Mothers for Peace. She isn't for us. She 12 for PG&E.
6 I hope that you gentlemen can that this all into 7 account. I know that I sound as if I am just flying off the 8 handle, but, unfortunately, I have a very heavy background 9 in biological and physical sciences, so I do have some 10 understanding of what is going on here, and I know that what 11 you are doing is, you are killing us.
12 Thank you.
13 [ Applause.]
14 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Craig Knox. 1
)
15 KR. KNOX: I liked what Eric said 16 I came up here two years ago, moved upwind and 17 bought a house. It doesn't mean I am safe, it means I won't 18 consistently get radiation, perhaps. I think the thing that 19 bothers me most of all about nuclear power is trying to get 20 rid of the waste. We have started off in this Manhattan 21 Project of energy consumption and. production without an end.
22 There is no way to get rid of the waste.
23 Yucca Flats has a volcano near it that was ;
24 originally considered to have gone off 200,000 years ago.
25 Now they have revised it. They think it erupted less than Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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l i-280 1 20,000 years ago. This earth is not predictable. Yet, we
.g 2 light light bulbs with a plant that absolutely needs 3 predictability in order to not annihilate thousands of 4 people now and in the future.
5 I am just really angry. It is so stupid.
6 (Applause.)
7 JUDS.E BECHHOEFER: Pat Veesart?
8 Lisen Bonnier.
9 HS. BONNIER: Good evening. My name is Lisen a
10 Bonnier and I am a farmer in Los Osos Valley. More 11 specifically, I an an organic f anner.
12 My teacher is Mother Nature, and I am her student, 13 and it feels like I just enrolled in kindergar':en. I am N 14 here to speak on behalf of my teacher, since sne cannot
(
(
15 personally be here inside San Luis Oraispo City Hall, and I 16 an also here to speak on b' half of all the unborn seeds, not 17 only Mother Nature's unborn seeds in the soil, but also the 18 unborn seeds of generations to conn.
19 Since we all were born, we have been playing ,
20 different gamea with different tools. We played with .
21 blocks, A-B-C blocks, and we tried to stack them all 22 together as high as we can, and there was a thrill with 23 that. We tried to see how high we could get before they all 24 collapsed. Then ve played with Logo, and we tried to see 25 how many piecc.s we could fit together in one piece before it O ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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1 281 1 all crumbled. We also played with decks of cards, and we 2 built houses of cards trying to stack as many tiers as 3 possible. It is the thrill of one more tier, always the 4 challenging game, just one more.
5 This particular game we have here is called 6 Diablo, a nuclear power game, and the thrill in this game is 7 called greed. The building blocks in this game is the years 8- of operation that have alraady gone by.- I am asking you now 9 how many more years of greed until everything is lost?
10 How many more building blocks do we dare to add on 11 an already shaky foundation?
12 Mankind has once again started a game, a nuclear 13 power game, which we don't know where the finishing line 14 lays, but we can here, today, set a finishing line.
[ -
15 On behalf of Mother Nature, and all the unborn 16 seeds, we humbly request not to grant an extension of 17 Diablo, a nuclear power plant, please.
18 Mi VEESART: My name is Pat Veesart. I am a-
~19 general contractor here in San Luis Obispo County. I want-20 to thank you sincerely for the opportunity to. speak here 21 today. It is a pleasant relief to be treated as well as we 22 have been treated by you folks. I hope you will really 23 1) sten to the concerns of this community.
24 I am here today because I am very concerned about 25 the extension of PG&E's license for the Diablo Canyon Q ANN RiLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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.- . 1 Nuclear Power Plant. My concern is based on the long
- t >
2 history of this power plant, and the incredible string of 3- blunders, incompetencies, coverups, and outright lies that 4 have led to the people of this county having to live with a 5 nuclear power plant and waste dump in our backyard. We 6 didn't want this power plant, and we made that very clear in 7 the yearc leading up to its licensing.
8 Please don't underestimate the people of this 9 county. Some of the people before you today spearheaded an 10 opposition to Diablo Canyon that sent shivers of fear 11 throughout the entire nuclear industry.
12 For many years, the Mothers for Peace have brought 13 to light many specific safety concerns, earthquake faults, 14 waste storage, inadequate design, and an evacuation plan
)
15 that is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads 16 it.
17 The Mothers have raised these issues time and tima ,
18 again, now PG&E wants to extend its license. From what I 19 have read, nuclear power plants start experience more 20 problems and failures towards the end of their lives, the 21 Humboldt Plant is a perfect example of this. If these 22 plants are not shutdown until area residents are exposed to 23 repeated doses of low-level radiation. I, for one, don't-24 wish to have my children,-and perhaps grandchildren exposed 25 .to this hazard.
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283 ;
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, 1 Given the history of this plant, and the obvious 2 concern expressed by the community, I believe you owe it to '
3 the citizens of San Luis obispo County to conduct an in-4 depth hearing to determine if the plant's license should be -
5 extended. As a citizen of this community, I feel that the 6 Mothers for Peace best represent my interests and the 7 interests of the community. I hope they will be allowed to S represent us at a thorough in-depth hearing.
9 Please listen to us. We are human beings, not 10 statistics. Put yourselves in our place, imagine your own 11 children and grandchildren dying in the leukemia ward while 12 PG&E profits soar.
13 The nuclear power industry is a dinosaur doomed to-14 extinction, please don't doom us to extinction in the
)
15 interim.
16 Thank you.
17 [ Applause.)
18 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Betty VanGorder, and after her 19 Sid Stolper.
20 MS, VanGORDER: I am Betty VanGorder. I am with 21 the San Luis Obispo Chapter of the American Red Cross.
22 The Red Cross' role in disaster is to act as the 23 agency which operates congregate care centers providing 24 emergency food and a place to stay in the event of a 25 disaster.
O V
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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284 1 For the past eleven years, the San Luis Obispo 2 County Chapter of the American Red Cross has participated in 3 a county-wide emergency response training exercise in 4 conjunction with the Nuclear Power Evacuation Plan.
5 This training opportunity for our chcpter, whet her 6 it is a full scale or a tabletop exercise, gives us the 7 opportunity to provide our volunteers with training. Each 8 year improvements are incorporated into our emergency 9 response plan.
10 This yearly training ex, ands our capacity to 11 provide disaster assistance to the County of San Luis 12 Obispo. It also gives the Red Cross the opportunity to 13 interact with other agencies in the cities and counties as 14 part of the county-wide response to disaster.
)
15 Thank you.
16 [ Applause.]
17 MR. STOLPER: Good evening, gentlemen. My name is 18 Sid Stolper, and I am here as a representative of the 19 Plumbers and Steamfitters of San Luis Obispo County.
20 Ten years ago, before I became the manager for the 21 Plumbers and Steamfitters Union here in this county, I was 22 fortunate enough to be able to work ten years at Diablo 23 Canyon on the project and saw first hand the craftsmanship 24 and the expertise that went into building it.
25 I don't believe that the license was issued for ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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285 1 forty years from the day that they first started to draft O-2 the license. I think it should have been issued as it was 3 called for, to be issued upon the completion of the plant 4 for operation. In our particular classification of people 5 that work at the plant, we, during the outage periods, have 6 some 250-300 steamfitters and welders that participate in 7 on-going maintenance, valve maintenance, I&C technician 8 checks, and other things that are very critical to the -
9 operation at Diablo.
10 We spend locally, with our own training funds, 11 tremendous amounts of money for training to the individuals 12 we sent to the plant for the expertise that we are asked to 13 provide. Yearly, we send all the instructors from our 14 training program to the University of Michigan for a five-15 year accredited program for teaching of the training of 16 steamfitters and welders and instrumentation technicians.
17 We don't take this lightly, and we also live here.
18 I am a 25-year resident of San Luis. I am proud to be 19 associated with the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant.
20 Earlier today, I happened to join with many fellow 21 San Luis Obispoians that involve themselves in an economic 22 forecast for San Luis Obispo for 1993, It became very, very 23 evident for us all, as we thumbed through the pages, the 24 tremendous positive impact that PG&E and Diablo Canyon 25 brings to San Luis Obispo County.
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286 1 We believe that they have been good neighbors. We 2 think they have been foremost and forthright with all that 3 they have done with the NRC. We stand by the work that we 4 have done there, and we think that you ought to continue the 5 license for the forty-year duration that it was intended to 6 be.
7 Thank you.
8 [ Applause.)
9 JUDGE BECHHoEFER: Kathy DePerl.
10 (Applause.]
11 MS. DePERI: Thank you.
12 I don't know what to say after that. I think 13 people are clapping because I represent a lot of people 14 here, and the way a lot of people feel. I was an 15 environmental educator who was fired for refusing to take 16 children to a nuclear power plant because I believe it is an 17 unsafe place for children, as well as an unsafe place for 18 the community.
19 There are a number of issues that I feel the NRC 20 needs to really look at before they grant pG&E an extension, 21 a 15-year extension on their license. There are a lot of 22 kids in this community., and I disagree with the County l
23 Schools who fired me because they thought that the 24 educational benefits outweighed the safety issues.
25 I think there are some really serious concerns
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1 that we have in this community, or there wouldn't be people 7-
-' 2 here tonight speaking, not attempting to keep you up all 3 night, but they want to be heard becauoe they have some real 4 serious concerns.
5 My concerns are that nuclear power plants 6 routinely emit radiation. New studies have come out saying 7 that the lower levels are harmful. People can't argue that 8 background radiation, and the radiation that we get from the 9 background radiation is just normal. Every little bit extra 10 we get harms us, and kids, as well as adults, don't need 11 that.
12 We have no adequate evacuation plan in this 13 county. It is a joke, and it was seen at Turkey Point when
, 14 communication was lost for over an hour that evacuation was 15 a fallacy, when there is a natural disaster on top of a 16 nuclear disaster, it would be outrageous to try to get 17 people out of here, if anyone is going to try to help 18 anyone.
19 They lost the radiation monitoring equipment, it 20 was wiped out. They lost the sirens. There were no 21 emergency sirens that went off. We are talking, if that 22 happened here,-how are people going to even know if there is 23 an emergency.
24 There are also a lot of other concerns. There are 25 spent fuel rods that are sitting out there two-and-a-half Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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- 1 miles from an earthquake fault. There was a coverup on the l 2 Hasgri Fault years ago, and the NRC should know about that.
3 Anytime somebody brings it up, it is just shuffled and 4 things don't come out in the reports.
5 I definitely think that you ought to be doing some 6 studies on health effects on the people around here. What 7 is usually said is, "We don't need to do health studies 8 because we are not releasing anything that is harmful to 9 anyone." Well, I think it is time that the pecple don't 10 believe that anymore. The NRC has lied to the people too 11 many times.
12 (Applause.]
13 MS. DePERI: We can create a lot of other jobs for
/N 14 the community, and there have been a lot of studies done on N._]
15 a lot of other cleaner energies, cleaner renewables that 16 PG&E should be looking into. They can make just as much 17 money off of clean renewables as they can destroying our 18 planet.
19 So I would just like to ask that the NRC seriously 20 take our considerations and not grant PG&E a 15-year 21 extension.
22 Thank you.
23 [ Applause.]
24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Randy Davis.
25 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: We have already heard from C') ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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l 289 1 him.
o2 MR. CONSTANCE:
~
I have a question and I have to 3 leave. My name is Christopher Constance and I am a student 4 inLthis area. '
S I don't drive a car because I think it is quite a 6 waste of energy, needless to say it is bad for breathing, 7 and there are things that are even worse than that in the 8 air around this area.
9 In the process of getting a license to drive an 10 automobile in this State, you get a license for four years, 11 and you have to go back and renew that license after that 12 four-year period has come.
13 I question to myself, how many people, if I were 14 absolutely insane, could I kill with one car before I ran 15 into a wall or got shot by a police officer, and then I l 16 think about Diablo Canyon, and they are giving them 17 extensions to go until one-fourth of the next century is 18 over, and I can't understand how 15 more years can be 19 granted when we can't even get a license for more than four, 20 which is hardly deadly other than the fact that it is using ,
1 21 all of our oxygen.
22 So I-ask you, how can you grant this?
23 (Applause.]
24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Jason Schara.
25 MR. SCHARA: My name is Jason Schara, and I work
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290 1 with Greenpeace.
O' . 2 We came out here last Thursday to help. I think 3 our job is pretty much to make people aware of what is going 4 on, and I think that we talked to about 10,000 people since 5 last Thursday by canvasing, going door-to-door, and letting 6 people know what is going on, and I would say about 50 7 percent of the people didn't even know these hearings were 8 going on.
9 It just seems to me, how can PG&E do this without 10 making the public aware. You should like put it on TV or 11 something like that so that people can come. A lot of 12 people can't get out of their homes, so I think that 13 everyone of these people speaking is representing about 100 14 to 500 people that weren't able to make it. So I think you 15 should keep that in consideration as well.
16 That is about it.
17 [ Applause.]
18 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Richie Ray Walker, and Mike 19 Mowrey.
20 MR. WALKER: My name is Richie Ray Walker, and I 21 come to you people not only as a biologist, a person that 22 has taught biology for 12 years, but a person that has also 23 studied geology.
! 24 All of you know about the Hasgri Fault,_and how I
25 close it is to Diablo Canyon. The PG&E enginee 'nd the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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291 1 NRC, it seems, a lot of people in the know knew about'that 0 2 fault and that fault line long before the plant was built, 3 but they went ahead and they built the plant anyway. The 4 total cost of the plant was around $8 billion.
5 I don't mean to sound pessimistic, and there are a .
6 lot people out here that would like to shut that plant down.
7 I, myself, would like to shut that plant down. But, as a 8 matter of economics, that is only wishful thinking and 9 fantasy. I don't think it will ever happen. I think the 10 license probably will be extended, so I am going to say my 11 piece anyway, and what I know about earthquakes and 12 earthquake faults.
13 All of you saw back in 1989, in October, the San 14 Francisco Earthquake. That earthquake was about 7.3 to 7.5.
15 It literally devastated the marina area. I was up there, 16 and I saw the damage that it did in San Francisco. I love 17 that city and, as far as I am concerned, it is probably the.
18 best city, the most cosmopolitan city, other than New York, 19 in the United States, and I have been all over this country.
20 Also, too, I want to mention the freeway, the 21 double-decker freeway thing that was built, the overpass 22 thing that crumbled like a cookie. That thing was-built in 23 1955, and it was determined then that it was earthquake 24 proof, and that it would never fail. As all of you saw live 25 over CNN News, and all the TV stations, that overpass, the Q- ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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292 f-1 freeway thing, crumbled like a cookio. Sixty-three people
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2 were killed outright. One poor soul lived for about a week, 3 a longshoreman, and he finally expired after about a week.
4 So, as you well know, there are two types of 5 earthquakes. There is the thrust fault, and then there is 6 the slip fault, and the slip fault is not the most dangerous 7 one. The thrust fault is the one that hit San Francisco, 8 and literally devastated it in nothing flat. --
9 The particular fault plates that we have out here 10 off of Avila Beach and Diablo Canyon, in the beginning were 11 known as slip plates, or slip faults, and now it is believed 12 that it could be a thrust fault, which would be devastating 13 if we had a 7.5 or even an 8.0 Richter reading here in this 14 area with that type of thrust fault. So it would literally
)
15 crack that reactor out of Diablo Canyon like a walnut.
16 As you well know, Mr. Wasserman over here, and the 17 other speaker, I didn't quite get his name, made some very 18 good comments, and points that, if there was an emergency 19 situation here in this area, pandemonium would break out.
20 There is no evacuation plan. It is ludicrous, it is a joke, 21 and so hence forth you would have a situation where panic 22 would take over, all rhyme and reason would go right down 23 the poop shoot, and we would have a real problem in this 24 city and county.
25 Also, too, I would like to mention a steamfitter O ^"" aev & ^SSoci^TES. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 ,
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293 1 that I met about two years ago down at Avila-Beach Hot 2 Springs. We were sitting in the hot pool discussing Diablo 3 Canyon. So I asked this steamfitter out there, "What is 4 happening out there?"
5 He said, "You wouldn't believe it."
6 I said, "Well, tell me, tell me."
7 He said, "Well, there are a lot of things that go 8 out there that never make the paper."
9 I said, "Oh, really?"
10 He said, "Yes."
11 "Well, tell me one."
12 He said, "Well, the other day, we had a massive 13 build-up in one of our pipes that evacuate the water from 14 the reactors, and it is dumped into that holding area. It
)
15 is a back-flush type of thing, and the water goes down this 16 pipe, so they were releasing these valves, and pumping this 17 water down this pipe when this fellow was watching _this 18 gauge, and the gauge kept building higher and higher and 19 higher pressure.
20 "So the foreman came along and started screaming 21 and hollering.and going crazy, and said, shut it off. .So 22 they shut the thing off. He said, take the pipe apart. So 23 when they took the pipe apart, guess what they found inside 24 the pipe? They found the packing-inside the pipe had never 25 been removed."
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294 1 So when some of the people como up here from the 2 PG&E and talk about the quality and the quality control that 3 goes on out there at the PG&E plant, this is just one 4 example of many examples that never make the paper, and if 5 this pipe would have blown up because of the pressure being 6 built up in that pipe, you would have had a lot of 7 radioactive water all over that plant, contaminating 8 workers, and it doesn't take too nuch radiation, and that 9 much concentration to kill a person.
10 I think the lethal dosage of radiation is around
.1 what, 500 rads, or something like that. You don't have to 12 get soaked too much with radiation to build up a certain 13 amount of radiation where it will kill you, and kill you 14 outright, if not a lingering illness for several months 15 before you do expire.
16 So that is one example. I wish he could have 17 given me more, but that was the most present one that he 18 gave me in working out there at that plant.
19 What I would like you people to consider, from the 20 NRC, and I hope you are listening to all the speakers, and I 21 hope you are thinking, as you are listening, with this plant 22 wanting an extension on their license, and with all the 23 problems that have already happened out there at that plant, 24 many of the problems, of course, never make the press. They
- 9. 5 have a good 1R system out there, and this fellow -- I don't Q ANN RILEY & A?OOCIATES, Ltd.
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- 1 recall his name now, but he was a PR spokesman for PG&E --
2 whenever there was a radiation leak, or radiation went out 3 into space, he would always : Jay, "Well, there is no danger.
4 It is a minimal amount." How do we know?
5 Where is the evidence, where is the proponderance 6 of evidence, where is the evidence that shows the public 7 that these amounts of radiation really are minimal?
U I don't think they are. As we have been told here 9 by various speakers about the dangers of low-level 10 radiation, I think that is apparent in the dangers that are 11 already here among us, right here in this city and county.
12 As I am speaking now, maybe there is low-level 13 radiation being released out there in the atmosphere, and
/~'i 14 what is going to happen?
V 15 Well, we are going to be the end result of that 16 radiation, and that is going to be bad news.
17 One other thing I would like to mention, with all 18 the earthquakes happening in this state, I have flown over 19 the San Bernadino Mountains, I have also looked out of the 20 window of the airplane, and you can see the folds of the San
, 21 Bernadino Mountains, and that only indicates to me that the l
22 pressure is building more and more in the San Bernadino
, 23 Mountain area of a tremendous carthquake that is going ic '
24 happen right there in that San Bernadino Valley, in that l
t 25 area, and if it is big enough, it is going to trigger the l
l .
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. . . _ _ . _ . _ - - . _ _ _ - _ _ - ~ _ . - _-_ . _ . _ . _ _ . . _ . _ _ - _ _ . _ . _
296 1 San Andreas Fault, which is the biggest fault and the 2 longest fault in the State of California. It goes all the 3 way from Ensenada, Mexico, and it goes all the way up the 4 coast, and veers over to the San Joaquin Valley. It goes 5 underneath Bakersfj eld, and continues North, and goes under 6 San Francisco, and then winds up on the other side of 7 Vallejo, and it is a long fault. It is about an 800 mile 8 fault, thereabouts.
9 With all these hundreds of fault lines all over 10 Ca11forn.ia, plus the Hasgri Fault that is only a little less 11 than three miles close to the plant, probably two miles to 12 the plant, there are some very things going on and to 33 consider with the extension of this license to D.ablo
( 14 Canyon.
15 To close this little speech, I would like to m y 16_ that even the NRC admitted about three years ago in our 17 paper, which isn't the greatest paper in the world, The 18 Telectram Tribung, there are over 2,000 violations out at 19 Diablo Canyon.- What I want to know is, with all the se ;
20 violations that they knew, the 2,000 violations, how many of l 21 those 2,000 violations were corrected?
22 I don't know-that,-I don't know how many i 23 violations out there at Diablo Canyon that were corrected 24 Maybe only 100 were corrected, so there is no evidence thete 25 either. ;
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297 1 So there are a lot of unanswered questions. There O 2 are a lot of things to be considered, and I think that you 3 people from the NRC, in listening to all these fine 4 speakers, and the patience of the three Judges up here, 5 should do some very heavy thinking, some soul searching, and 6 not grant this license.
7 Thank you very much.
8 (Applause.)
9 JUDGE DECHHOEFER: Mr. Howery. ,
10 MR. HOWERY: Yes.
11 JUDGE BECHHOEFERt And Bill Horton after that.
12 MR. M0WERY: Thank you.
l 13 My name in Mike Mowery, and I am a resident of San
() 14 15 Luis Obispo County and have been for the last 36 years.
am currently Business Manager for the Electricians Union in I
16 San Luis Obispo County, and I thank you also for the 17 opportunity to come before you and share my thoughts on the 18 extension of the license for Diablo canyon.
19 First off, I am kind of amazed at what I have witnossed here.
20 I think the Federal government could reduce l
21 its budget if they would just sell tickets to a show like 22 this. Although many of the people that are here are not 23 residents of this county, and I would like to point that 24 out, and many of the people that I represent cannot be here, o
25 and that is wh:,' I am here representing them.
^"" aev 5 ^Ssoo'^TES d-O Coun Reponers 1612. K, Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293 3950
1 298 1 We have over 200 electricians in my local union, V 2 and most of them have all porked at Diablo canyon. I have 3 worked on Diablo canyon both in the construction cycle, and 4 also after it was on-line, and I don't know where all the 5 misperceptions come with the nuclear power plant at Diablo 6 Canyon because what I have experienced is not what I am 7 hearing here from the people that are opposed to extending 8 the license.
9 The previous speaker, I would like to address 10 something that he brought up about the rags being in the 11 pipe. That incident did happen, but it was not at Diablo 12 canyon. That incident happened at another power plant, and 13 the pipefitter that he was talking to must have been a non-14 union pipofitter because that plant where this situation 15 happened was a fossil fuel plant.
16 But needless to say, I think there has been a lot 17 of misinformation presented here tonight. There has been 18 various occurrences at Diablo Canyon where the NRC has i 19 written up PG&E. Some of those instances might be where a 20 construction worker, or a plant employee walks through a 21 secured door and does not go back and clear through 22 properly. Incidents like that are written up at the power 23 plant, and the people that have worked there for some 24 pe"iods of time know tae constraints, the requirements, the 25 procedures that they are under, and the quality control.
/7 O
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299 1 Also, I believe that most of the contentions that ;
2 the Mothers for Peace are presenting are not in the -- well, 3 they don't hold the validity that they should to preclude 4 the plant from not being granted an extension of its 5 license. I think most of the points that they have 6 raised --
7 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Nuclear waste.
8 MR. HOWERY: Nuclear waste.
9 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Cancer.
10 MR. HoWERY: I am not an expert on these, but I 11 can tell you that PG&E has addressed each and everyone of 12 these inaues.
13 The nuclear waste is being stored on site at the 14 current time. I am not here to debate you people. I am
)
15 here to speak my piece just like I gave you tolerance to 16 speak yours. So, in a free society, I would like to have 17 the opportunity.
18 I do appreciate what the Mothers for Peace have 19 raised in the past. In the past, they have brought concerns 20 and changes to the nuclear power plant that I think were for 21 the betterment of all involved. Nevertheless, what we are 22 talking about here today, and this is'a hearing in a public 23 forum, is extending the license, and I believe that the i- 24 proof is in tbo pudding. The power plant has performed 25 extremely well. PG&E continues to upgrade the facilities, Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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300 l 1 and ensure that the quality is there, and the safety is O 2 there.
3 I would be a fool to raise my family in this 4 county and continue to live here if I seriously thought that i
5 Diablo Canyon was going to take my life, or slowly take my l 6 children's lives. I think those in the audience, if they )
7 are as convinced as they say that they area, that Diablo a Canyon is going to create a situation and jeopardize their 9 lives and thcir children's lives, then I don't know why the 10 live here in close proximity to it.
11 The last point that I would like to make is that 12 there is quite a few people here, but I don't believe that 13 this is representation of what this community represents, i
14 and I think PG&E has been given the support of the 15 community, and I don't think this is something where we put l
16 this to the vote of the people, but we put it into the hands 17 of people that regulate the nuclear power industry.
18 One other point, if those people have so many l
19 alternatives that are viable, I would encourage them to get .
20 into the utility business, and go for it, and make their '
21 profits.
22 Thank you. ,
i 23 [ Applause.]
- l. 24 MR. HORTON: Excuse me. I just want to say a 25 couple of words. I will take about a minute.
l lC l
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l 301 1 My name is Issac Horton. I am a resident. I live 2 in los Osos.
l
, 3 JUDGE BECHilOEFER: Are you the Bili Horton who is '
4 on the list?
l 5 MR. IloRTON: No, but what I have to say will only 6 take a few moments. I 7 JUDGE DECH110EFER: Well, I had called Bill Horton, 8 too, so if he is around.
9 MR. HORTON: If you would let we apeak right now, 10 it will take two seconds.
11 Dasically, what I want to say is, it is the 12 Christmas season. We are enjoying the spirit of giving, and 13 I would like to ask you one question, when you go and you 14 share your meal, or whatever, with your family and your 15 grandchildren and children, and what do you think of when .
16 you are being with your family, and all that love, and you 17 are sharing?
18 You should think of that just like you think of ,
19 our community because we are your family, and we really care 20 about the rest of the community, and we want to place values 21 in our children that have a foundation of love, and we think 22 that one life, just one life --
23 This lady who came to speak about all the peoplo 24 that she has met with cancer,-and you could tell that she 25' feels it from her heart, that when somebody dies because of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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302 1 just some radiation, it doesn't matter if it is creating the 2 energy that we need, if we can create it in another way, it ,
3 doesn't matter. One life is more valuable.
4 If you think that I am being a hypocrite because I 5 use PG&E's energy, well then screw you because I will 6 boycott PG&E and I will become totally self-sufficient, if 7 that is what it takes. I don't care if I have to go live in 8 the hills.
9 Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 JUDGE BECHi!OEFER: Is Bill llorton here, the other 12 llorton?
13 [No response.) '
14 JUDGE BECl!!!OEFER: Is Saul Goldberg?
15 [No response.)
16 JUDGE BECllllOEFER: Pete Evans?
17 MR. EVANS: llello, my name is Pete Evans.
18 I would like to comment on a few things that 19 earlier on were commented on, and have been getting picked 20 up, and that is the evacuation plan.
21 Fortunately, the NRC, I think that the Mothers',
22 and other people's insistence came up with the regulations 23 that no plant can be licensed without an adequate evacuation 24 plan, As you have heard, what we have received as a result l 25 of that is some sort of a joke, and I would like to go over
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303 1 a few specifics.
2 One of the specifics of our plan for those of us 3 who have pets is to put your pots in the middle of the 4 house, and leave them three days worth of food, and then 5 evacuate your family and plan to be gone for five days.
6 That is one bit of information that doesn't quite work out.
7 Another thing is for parents to abandon their 8 children and get out knowing that they can count on the 9 school district, and the police, and fire and other people 10 to get their children out from the schools and so on.
11 As a pet lover, I wouldn't comply with the first 12 part, and I have yet to meet any parents who would comply 13 with the second part about leaving their children to someone 14 else to get out of the community if there is a problem.
15 These are two of many problems with the evacuation 1G plan, and the evacuation plan is one giant problem amongst 17 many problems with this plant that we have had here. The 18 concerns and worries of all kinds of citizens here, I think, i
19 are valid, and I really feel it is premature to consider 20 extending the license at this time.
21 There was some sort of analogy made earlier about l 22 a driver's license, but that was more about the lethal i
23 nature of the plant versus a car, but it would be silly for 24 any of us to apply to extend our driver's license two years 25 into a four-year period, so why do that with this plant?
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304 1 Perhaps IM I: needs to do some planning for the 2 future, or whatever, I don' t know. Mr. Walker brought up a 3 bunch of points, and I was just left with the thought, this 4 whole period, this wholo -- what has it boon sinco this has 5 boon a major issue, since about 873 or '74, and somewhat of 6 an issue beforo that. The average citizen here has had to 7 just live on hopo, just rely on hope that overything will be 8 okay. We are the government, trust us. That is really not 9 good enough for us, and that is what caused the blockade, i
10 and lots of support for the Mothers and other groups, and I 11 don't think you should ask us to live on hope, or perhaps 12 your best judgment, you people that live in Pittsburgh, or 13 Miami, or wherever.
14 The plant is operating, it is already a poisoned 15 picco of real estato that probably can't be used for any 16 other purpose for who knows how many years, but to extend 17 that at this point is just ludicrous, and it just soums very 18 childish and not a wise thing to do.
19 So, with the coming now administration, I think 20 you should go home and say, "We don't know enough yet, and 21 we are going to have to study this in light of new 22 political, and legal, and safety developments, and give this
- i. 23 much more consideration."
l 24 Thank you, l
2S (Applause.]
l l
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Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
305 1 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Kimberly MacGregor.
O 2 MS. MacGREGOR: My name is Kimberly, and I have 3 como up from Los Angeles to give Saul some support.
4 We wouldn't be up here if they didn't call us.
5 They wouldn't have called us if they didn't want it. They 6 don't want it, and that is something you should take into 7 consideration.
8 There are a lot of human beings in here that have 9 hearts, care about the future, care about the unborn babies, 10 and they don't want this around. .
11 If you produce energy, that is great. Energy is 12 good, yes. But if you produce energy that produces a toxic 13 waste, who are you harming?
14 The toxic wastes have a lifespan longer than 15 anybody in this whole room, unless you are immortal, so why 16 not produce an energy that produces no toxic waste. Come 17 on, you guys, solar energy, you have the Sun. The Sun has 18 been sitting there for millions of years. You can use it.
19 That is natural resources.
20 Wind is another way. You have the birds, they fly 21 into it. So what, put a little chainlink fence up around l 22 them, and then the birds won't fly'into it. That is not 23 producing any waste that is going to kill-us off. It is not 24 going to make our babies come out dead or deformed. It is l 25 not going to make the toxic waste which you think you bury l
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306 1 under the ground, and you forget about it, and it leaks in 4 2 our water, and then we all die slowly. I mean it is ;
3 something to think about.
4 I have been to a lot of doors this week, and l
5 people will say, "Well, we don't know enough information, we l 6 can't support your cause." I don't believe you guys have '
7 enough information, just like the people at the door are 8 telling me, "We don't have enough information, we need to 9 research it more." That is what I think you guys need to 10 do, research it more.
11 There are other alternatives out there, and it is 12 time to change.
13 Thank you.
14 [ Applause.]
(
15 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Richard Kramzdorf.
16 (Applause.)
17 MR. KRAMZDORF: Thank you.
18 I am Richard Framzdorf, 160 Graves in San Luis 19 Obispo.
20 The old statement, it feels like deja vu all over 21 again. The first time I appeared at one of these sessions 22 was somewhere in the late 1970s-. It was over at Madonna 23 Inn, and I remember at that time being told, "The people who 24 wanted to speak line up_at one of two microphones." We were 25 given three minutes, and at the end of each person's speech, O ^"" 'ev ^ ^SSoc'^TeS '
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l 307 1 one of the panel members said, "Thank you very much. Next 2 2 person please. Thank you very much. Next person please.
3 Thank you very much. Next person please."
4 I must admit, based on that experience and a lot i 5 of other experiences that have occurred, I had written some 6 statements which would have been in rather a different- )
7 direction than I intend to go.
8 After having spoken to the people who were with i 9 you during the day, and hearing their statements as well as 10 watching you this evening, as a couple of other people have 11 said, I truly wish to thank you.. This is not the kind of 12 response that I thought that we would bo getting, people 13 genuinely listening.
14 (Applause.)
15 MR. KRANZDORF: As I understand from this 16 afternoon, the Mothers got legal standing, which was 17 certainly something which -- it was the first barrior, if 18 you will, and I would like to thank you for that.
19 I would hope that in looking at your different 20 issues, and making yot- recommendations, that you would ask 21 for an environmental 1;. pact statement, which is long 22 overdue. I would hope that you would look to certain of the 23 seismic issues, data V",ich is being provided daily, and I 24 would like to focus juut for a couple of minutes.
l i
25 When I was involved in this some years ago, my l
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308 ,
1 particular interest was the emergency plan, and different 2 facets of it, and some of what I am going to say in old, but 3 some of it is very, very now.
4 When you take, as I understand you are going to be 5 taking a trip down to Diablo tomorrow, sometime in the late 6 morning /carly af terrioon, comething like that, I would like -
7 to recommend, on your way down, as you zip down 101, and 8 then you take the Avila Road, I guess, that as you get to 9 Avila, rather than just zipping on to the plant, whoever is 10 driving you, you say, " Wait a minute, can we please turn 11 into Avila itself, into the town of Avila." It is a small 12 town. It is the closest downwind town to the plant, and I 13 wculd urge you to look at the structures there. Look at 14 them in two ways. Look at them in terma of the sheltering 15 if, indeed -- let me go back a step.
l 16 There is basically one road out of the town of 17 Avila, one road. There is a backway, which is a dirt road, 18 et cetera, but essentially there is one road. So 19 evacuation, in the event of an earthquake, or whatever else, 20 would be very questionable.
21 I would, therefore, urge you to go into the town, 22 take a five-ten minutes drive around the town and look at 23 the structures in two regards. One, in terms of the 24 protection that they would offer in the event of a problem 25 at Diablo, and, secondly, in the event of an earthquake, and Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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1
309 m 1 look at, again, the kinds of structures. I think it is well U 2 worth your taking the few minutes to do that.
3 In talking about sheltering, for years we have 4 talked. This goes back long ago, the people have no idea, 5 in the event of a problem in the event of an evacuation 6 because of an earthquake or whatever, and that being 7 possible, they have no idea, to this day, whero, what kinds 8 of buildings, where they can gc, for a sheltering option, and 9 yet we talk about the emergency plan being something which 10 is up to speed.
11 Some of the points that Eric Greening made 12 earlier, I think, are very well taken. I hadn't thought 13 about that, in terms of the emergency plan, in terms of the 14 composition changing over the years. When you are looking 15 for new evidence, not old material, looking to the future in 16 terms of the Clean Air Plan, in terms of the modal shift 17 that has been going on in terms of different kinds of 18 vehicles, in terms of an aging population, all of that is 19 new materia) and should be looked at. The emergency plan is 20 woefully inadequate focusing on the next 15 years, let alone 21 if you are going to go beyond that, or you are being asked 22 to go beyond that for the 12 to 15 years following that.
23 I am a professor of political science over at cal 24 Poly. I teach in the international relations area, one of 25 the courses that I teach is called The Politics of Global
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310 1 Survival, and we look at both nuclear issues and also 2 environmental issues.
3 one of the things which has been very clear over 4 the past several years, and I am not a climatologist, but 5 one reads the World Wat&h material, and one reads the World 6 Resources Institute material, and it is that we are in a 7 period of, for reasons that aren't entire clear, whether 8 they are carthquakes, or whether they are typhoons, or 9 whether they are tidal waves, or whatever, there is an 10 exponential increase in these kinds of events, none of which '
11 has been factored into the events coming up, or to the years 12 during which this extension would take place.
13 So I would urge you to look at not only local 14 conditions, but also global conditions. There were comments 15 carlier about Turkey Point. There was a comment about tidal 16 waves. These are not apparently just happenstance events, 17 they are increasing in frequency, and should be factored 18 into your consideration of the extension which is being 19 proposed.
20 I think, in closing -- well, one very, very brief 21 point. The reporter for the TT was here for an hour, and I 22 saw her leave. There was a person from one of the radio 23 stations, he left. This is a critical event. I would have 24 hoped that this would have been carried by local radio, not 25 only for the few people that are here, but the thousands O ^"" ni'ev & Associates. 'ta.
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l 311 1 that would have had an opportunity to actually listen, blow-2 by-blow, to the events today.
3 It is really important and I think that it has 4 been a disservice that this has not been made available to 5 the general public beyond those that are actually here.
6 Thank you very much for remaining here, and I 7 would hope that the radio stations would have been willing 8 to carry this as well.
9 [ Applause.)
10 MR. KP3MZDORF: I think what I would ask in 11 conclusion, I don't knew what your procedure is. I know you 12 will come to your own recommendations when you leave. I 13 know you are not making them here. I would hope that those 14 recommendations will be made public before they actually --
15 let me phrase it this way, I would hope we would not find 16 out simply from the llRC. I would hope that your 17 recommendations would be mado public as they are transmitted 18 up the line rather than we wait for the final decision to be 19 made without anyone knowing. I don't know what your 20 procedure is. It is a request that I think the people of
+
21 San Luis Obispo would like to make to you.
22 There is a new wind blowing in Washington, D.C. --
23 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Our Board will render 6 l 24 decision. Our decision will be made, and subject to review, l
L 25 of course, but it will be made.
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312 1 MR. KRAMZDORF But it will be made public before 2 the review is --
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: It will be mado public when we 4 make it, and that will be it, and then it is subject to 5 appeal.
6 MR. KRAMZDORF: That's great. I didn't know the 7 procedure, that it will be mado public before it goes on to 8 the next stage.
9 JUDGE BECH110EFER: This is routine.
10 MR. KRAMZDORF: There is a now wind blowing in 11 Washington. The twelve years of the NRC going its own 12 route, of the legislative branch going its own ro'Ite, of 13 one-stop licensing going its own route, I think there is a l 14 new wind blowing, and I would hope you would listen, or be a 15 part of this new wind.
16 Again, I appreciate your coming here. I 17 appreciate your listening to us, and responding to us, and 18 we look forward to your recommendations.
19 Thank you very much.
20 [ Applause.)
21 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Barbara Rose.
22 MS. ROSE: 11011o. My name is Barbara Rose. I 23 want to thank you for extending your meeting tonight so that 24 people can be heard.
25 [ Applause.]
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313 1 MS. ROSE: I just have a few brief comments to O 2 make. Eighteen years ago, when this plant was initially 3 being built, there were a lot of things we didn't know.
4 Some of the things we didn't know were the things we know 5 now about the liasgri Fault. We didn't know that we wouldn't 6 have a place to put the waste, and that we would have to 7 double up on the amount of waste that is stored on-site.
8 We didn't know that lung and breast cancer rates 9 would soar in this county. We didn't know of the 10 difficulties we would have with developing an emergency plan 11 for this county. We didn't know tnat one of the units would 12 be built backwards and have to be redesigned.
13 We are talking about extending this license after 14 an additional 18 years. What will we learn in this next 18 15 years, why are we even considering it at this time?
16 I think that if the plant has the wonderful safety 17 record that it appears to have, let's let it go and see how 18 we fool in 18 years, but why extend it at this time. It 19 doesn't make sense.
20 Thank you.
21 (Applause.)
l 22 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Ray Fleming?
23 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: He is out in the hall.
24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Sheila Baker, too.
25 Why don't you speak now, and then we will get Ray O ^"" aev & ^ssoci^Tes' 'id-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 i Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
1 314 1 later.
2 MS. BAKER: Thank you. Thank you for being here, 3 and thank you for being so nice.
4 I would like to ask that someone from Santa 5 Barbara that has driven up today, and that has to move 1
6 tomorrow, has to drive back tomorrow speak on my behalf, and l 7 I would love to come back tomorrow and speak.
8 Thank you.
9 [ Applause.)
10 JUDGE BECHHoEFER: Who was the person from Santa 11 Barbara?
12 MS. HART: I am. My name is Stacey Hart, and this 13 is my daughter. I have been a mom for six months, and I am 14 really enjoying it.
15 I think you guys have gotten a lot of facts 16 tonight. I like to read books a lot, and there are a couple 17 of things I have read in books lately that I thought I would 18 share with you.
19 In the World Watch, in 1992, the first article in 20 the series of articles that have been taken from the World 21 Watch Journal is about nuclear waste, and the first thing 22 they say in that article is that it is the major problem 23 that we have on this planet today, finding a place to put 24 this stuff, and knowing how we are going to make sure that 25 it doesn't leach into our watertable over the next l
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315 1 millennia, and how we are going to ensure that political 2 changes, like we have seen in Russia in the last couple of 3 years, aren't going to mean a more unstable way of taking 4 care of it.
5 Another thing I read was by a woman named Joanna 6 Massey. She came up with a good idea. She said, "Let's 7 make it a spiritual thing where we will actually have kind 8 of a priesthood of people that will be charged with taking 9 care of nuclear waste," and that blow me away that it is 10 such a long amount of time that we would have to create some ,
11 sort of a religion to take care of it.
12 Another person came up with an idea that we make 13 keychains with little bits of nuclear waste in it, and gave 14 them to everybody, and then they could_just lose their keys.
15 It is ridiculous. Nuclear waste, there is nothing 16 we can do with it. We could maybe jettison it into space, 17 maybe we could get NASA to work on it. We can't do anything 18 about extending or creating more nuclear power plants until 19 we figure out what we are going to do with this problem.
20 Another book I have been reading lately is by Al 21 Gore, Earth in the Balante, and even he says that we have to 22 deal with this problem.
23 So, no, let's not extend this nuclear power plant, 24 it is stupid.
25 Another book I read,-Everythina I Needed to Know I C ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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316 1 Learned in Kindgrc:arteD, and one of the things that guy says 2 is, " Clean up after your own mess." I am going to teach my 3 daughter how to say that. I am going to teach my daughter .
4 to cican up after her own mess. You know something, I 5 really hope when she is an adult and she looks at me and she 6 says something about me bringing her into the world, I hopo 7 it is "Thank you" instead of "Why?"
8 (Applause.)
9 JUDGE BECill!OEFER: Coralie McMillan.
10 MS. !! ART: I was going to ask you if my friend 11 Myrrh can speak to you. She came up with me, and she has 12 also got a child.
13 MS. McMILLAN: She can go ahead of me.
14 (Applause.)
15 JUDGE DECHilOEFER: Okay.
16 You go next, though.
17 MS, SilAW: Thank you.
18 My name is Myrrh Shaw, and I am proud to say that 19 my son Gordon was born in our solar powered home.
20 (Applause.]
21 MS. SIIAW: Right now, we are working on upgrading 22 our solar system, and that brings me to the thought of the 23 solar industry in general. When Jimmy Carter was in office, 24 there were tax breaks for families and businesses who were 25 willing to install solar power systems in their homes, and O ^"" nev a ^ssoci^Tes. 'ta-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 i (202) 293-3950 1
317 !
I he, as an example, installed solar hot water heaters in the O 2 White House. Reagan came in, took the heaters down, and 3 cancelled the program. l 4 For that reason, solar technology has limited 5 funding, limited availability, and is actuelly expensive to 6 install and to upkeep and improve. So I would like to see 7 some of our energy dollars redirected into the solar 8 industry. These jobs as Diablo that we are talking about 9 that are so precious could be rechanneled into solar 10 technology, solar installation, solar repair, the designing 11 of 12 volt appliances at an affordable cost that could be 12 run on solar power.
33 I would also like to say that I was an exchange 14 student in Europe the year of the Chernobyl accident, and I 15 saw the response, and I saw the ramifications, and I saw the 16 food market come tumbling down when certain food products 17 were no longer marketable.
18 I am wondering why the jobs at Chernobyl or the 19 jobs at Diablo are more important than the jobs of the 20 Bavarian dairy farmers whose milk was no longer sellable, or j 21 the Turkish fig growers whose figs were no longer acceptable 22 on the market.
f 23 We are a family of organic farmers, and we put all
- 24 of our workforce into raising food that is sustainably
! 25 grown, and safe for the population to eat. No one is going ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
-Q Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293 3950
318 1 to buy it if it is contaminated with nuclear waste, so there O 2 goes our job. Why is my job less important than anyone 3 else's?
4 (Applause.]
5 MS. SHAW: Thirdly and lastly, I want to comment 6 on the build up of radiation in milk. These Bavarian dairy 7 farmers were not only hit with a high fallout level, but the 8 way milk is produced, radiation tends to accumulate in it at 9 a relatively high rate.
10 I am nursing my con, and I feel good about the 11 milk that I feed him. I don't want to be grimacing and 12 afraid every time it is time for him to eat. I want to be 13 able to feed him safe food, too.
14 [ Applause.)
15 MS. McMILLAN: Coralie McMillan. I just wanted to 16 make a few points.
17 First of all, I want to say that the young people 18 don't want this. It seems to be the old people that want 19 this, the before World War II crowd. That is why I am glad 20 we have a new president because, hopefully, these young 4
21 people will make a difference because not only are you going 22 to inherit a debt, you are going to have to find a place for 23 this nuclear waste, and that is the question.
24 This person mentioned that we are giving erroneous 25 information. I want to know, do we have to store nuclear
-O ^"" ai'ev S ^SSoci^Tes' 'td-Court Reporters -
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319 1 waste for 3,000 or 10,000 years. You guys are all the 2 experts, what is it, do you know?
3 JUDGE KLINE: We are going to respond by answering 4 that we are not going to answer technical questions. We are 5 here to listen to you, and we will not answer.
6 MS. McMILLAN: If it was a short time, I could 7 understand, but if you are making these decisions, maybe you 8 should know, because King Tut was 3,000 years ago, and if we 9 have to store this for 3,000 years, and we don't even have a 10 place yet, PG&E is planning, they have to plan, this is 11 something that should be planned. It doesn't make sense to 12 me.
13 But I do think that we should all know so that we
( 14 don't have erroneous information how long this has to be 15 stored because it is these young people that are going to 16 have to do it, and we need a place for it.
17 Another thing I wanted to mention was that PG&E, I 18 heard, was treated quite well this morning, and PG&E is 19 always treated quite well. Diablo is a cash cow for PG&E.
20 They are making a lot of money, and I am paying a lot of 21 money to PG&E, we all are.
22 My concern really is that this whole nuclear 23 power, it is a dead man's dream. These people in PG&E who 24 wanted it and fought for it, they are dead now. They are 25 gone, and we don't have to fulfill their dreams anymore, and Q ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
320 l 1 I think it is sad that we don't just shutdown this plant d 2 tomorrow until something is done about the nuclear waste.
3 If you can't even take care of chemical waste, 4 these chemical dumps, if you can't even control them, how 5 are you going to ever control a radioactive dump, it is just 6 mindboggling.
7 But I want to say that Greenpeace, you are my I
8 heroes, and I have a lot of faith in the young. )
9 (Applause.)
10 JUDGE BECilllOEFER: We have a Sandi Sigurdson.
11 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: She left.
12 JUDGE BECill!OEFER: Larry Wampler? !
13 [No response.)
14 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Kathy Uram?
15 (No response.)
16 MR. DORAN: Is it okay if I go, I am from Los 17 Angeles?
18 My name is Brett Doran, I am on the list.
19 JUDGE BECHilOEFER: Are you on one of these lists 20 or not?
21 MR. DORAN: Yes, I am on one of the lists. My 22 name is Brett Doran. I am from Los Angeles.
23 I just want to say that the fact that we are even 24 having this hearing is kind of insane to me, it is kind of 25 like a bad dream. But the reality is, wo are having it, and O ^"" ai'ev & Associ^Tes. 'ta-Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
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321 l l
the reality is that radiation kills people. There is plenty
()
1 l l
2 of documentation to prove it. According to Harvey 3 Wasserman, more people in the United States have been killed 4 by radiation than were killed in Hiroshima.
5 There are all kinds of issues that we are dealing 6 with here. Maybe I am not from San Luis Obispo, but the 7 radiation released from this plant probably occasionally 8 finds its way to Los Angeles, and it is always possible that 9 it could find a way into my lung. I could have an alpha 10 particle cause cancer in my own lung.
11 I think PG&E also has to claim responsibility for 12 the people that die in the uranium mines. Uranium is 13 necessary to power the plant. In my home state of Arizona, 14 I know Navaho indians have died in those plants, and uranium
{}
15 mines also have to be vented of radon gas, and the EPA has 16 admitted that radon gas is deadly. We are putting radon gas 17 into our environment. That is insane.
18 I work for Greenpeace, and I go door to door, and 19 people tell me that I am radical all the time, but I think 20 putting radiation into the air is pretty radical. I don't 21 think what I do, talking to people and trying to protect the 22 environment is very radical.
23 (Applause.]
24 MR. DORAN: We also live with the possibility of-25 meltdown here. I don't know if a moltdown is going to occur O ^"" ai'ev $ ^SSoci^Tes. d.
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322 1 or not, but it would be a good way to put this town on the O 2 map. I can just see it now, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, 3 San Luis Obispo Diablo.
4 I know it provides a lot of jobs and everything, 5 and I know a lot of people here want the extension, but we 6 can be more creative. I am tired of this argument of jobs 7 versus the environment. We can be a 'Att)e nore creative, I 8 think, and I think we are capable of a lot more. We can 9 produce energy that doesn't produce pollution, especially 10 pollution that is going to be around for 10,000 years.
11 It is only logical, putting this kind of poison in 12 the air, it is crazy. I know a lot of praople make a lot of 13 money on it. I think, maybe, if you are making money on it, 14 and you think that it is okay to Pill people, then you
{
15 should reevaluate your own point of view.
16 There may be transition periods, but a luS .,f 17 people just got fired from rM like that, and I don't think l 18 the president really care / He makes safety arguments 19 cometimes, but I don't really think he cared. He wiped out y 20 alternatives that we did have, along with his predecessor 21 Ronald Reagan.
22 Hopefully, we can be creative and stop putting 23 this poison in the air, and hopefully we can do it together.
24 Hopefully we don't have to be at each other's throats.
25 I would like to thank the Judges for letting
] ANN RILEY & AeSOCIATES, Ltd.
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323 1 everyone speak, and I encourage you to reevaluate why there
(
\/ 2 is even an NRC. I don't O. ink there should be an NRC. We 3 nood a nuclear free future tamorrow, not in ten years, not 4 in 25 years.
5 Thank you.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. VESNOVER: Excuse me. My name is John 8 Vesnover, and I have to be in Los Angeles tomor: o irning 9 at six o' clock, and I am on the list and I woulG like to 10 speak, if I may.
11 I am a long-time San Luis Obispo County resident.
12 I live and I work in this county, along with my wife and 13 three children. I think San Luis Obispo County is a
T 14 beautiful and a wonderful place to live.in. I hope it (U 15 always remains that way. I hope also that I can possibly i
16 afford to live and work and retire here someday, and as well 17 see my children grow up in this county.
18 I stand here tonight in support of FG&E's request 19 to extend their license. I understand that you have legal 20 and safety concerns that you are primarily concerned with, 21 however, I would hope that in your wisdom you would consider 22 a couple of items that I would like you to consider in this 23 big picture.
24 One of them is the economic reality of the 25 situation in our county, and, secondly, and I hope this O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Coud Reponers 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 VVashington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
324 1 doesn't draw too many boos, but I believe the moral O 2 responsibility that we have to continue and develop and 3 refine our nuclear industry.
4 I would like to explain this, maybe, if I could in 5 three minutes. First, on the economic reality, in a recent
, 6 Row Times magazine article that I read, pG&E drew a lot of 7 criticism for making profits. As a businessperson, I 8 shudder when I hear this kind of talk. We only need to look 9 to our auto industry to see what happens when businesses 10 cannot make a profit. People lose their jobs, and their 11 standard of living is diminished. It is very important, 12 therefore, to continue this path.
13 Forgive me, I am a little tired. I am 'Jaa'ng my 14 place here. Pacific Gas and Electric Company not only
)
15 provides a lot of employment and good paying jobs in our J
16 area, but they also give back to the community in which they 17 operate. I am on the Board of Directors of a newly formed 18 math-science-technology foundation in our county. It is a 19 group composed of teachers, parents, administrators who are 20 trying to change the fact that American students are now 21 ranked second to last in the industrialized nations of the 22 world. So I believe that PG&E is a good neighbor, and I E' would like to see them stick around for a while.
24 Now the moral question, there is a lot of talk 25 about this word " risk" and personally, I submit to you
] ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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325 o 1 2
tonight, that I am a little more afraid to drive in the streets of Los Angeles, or, for that matter, drive on any-3 streets or any roads in this country for the fear of a drunk 4 driver on the road. I am more afraid of walking in a room 5 with a lot of second-hand smoke, and I am more afraid and I 6 feel the greatest risk of the fact knowing that our children 7 are subjected to drugs every day.
8 Here is the moral connection, we don't live in e 9 bubble, and we don't live in a vacuum. The nuclear genie is 10 out of the lantern. Even if we were to stop every nuclear 11 power plant in the United States today, the fact of the 12 mattet is that the rest of the world will continue to use 13 and develop nuclear power.
14 I, for one, do not want to see a company by the
[}
15 name of the Moscow Cooperative Pacific Gas and Electric 16 Company be in charge of nuclear power, and I believe that we 17 have a moral responsibility to lead the field in nuclear i 18 energy, and to show the world the proper way to do it, and t l
l 19 along with organizations like the Mothers for Peace, and all 20 the other fine groups that have good intentjons here 21 tonight, to set the star.dards for nuclear power, just l
22 because the people in Russia demonstrated to us that they do i 23 not do a good job, as has been evidenced in Chernobyl.
24 If you want to switch back to the economic side of 25 things for 3 minute, I believe if we continue to shackle our Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006
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326 1 nuclear indartry, if we don't do it, the Japanese will do 2 it, and 30 years s' rom now -- I am not a Nintendo family, but 3 if you notice for the families that-are Nintendo families, 4 Nintendos never go on sale -- I believe 30 years from now, 5 if we continue to shackle our industry, the Japanese will be 6 selling nuclear technology back to us again.
7 In conclusion, I hope that you consider all the 8 matters, the legal, the safety, as well as the economic 9 benefits, and what I perceive as the moral obligation that 10 we have and fit this all in your big picture.
11 I had the pleasure of viewing Aladdin _this weekend 12 with my children, and in that movie Robin Williams does a 13 terrific job as playing the genie who came out of the
( 14 lantern. I believe that is analogous to the nuclear 15 industry today. The nuclear genie is out of the bottle, and 16 Robin Williams, depending on who was in control at the time, 17 was either a good genie or a bad genie, and that is what I 18 believe our responsibility is here.
19 I hope the United States never loses its edge, and 20 its lead in nuclear technology for our good and that of all 21 the earth.
22 Thank you very much.
23 [ Applause.]
i 24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: At the moment, we would like to i
! 25 take about a five minute break. We have been running about I
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ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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,, 1 three hours, and we will be back shortly.
(V) 2 [Brief recess.)
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Back on the record.
4 Is Jill Franson hero?
5 After Jill, Russell Rappa, and then after that Jim 6 Merkel. These were all people who said they couldn't come 7 back tomorrow and bad to leave.
8 MS. FnaNSO'i: Hello. My name is Jill Franson, and m 9 I live right now in the Santa Barbara area. I have been 10 working for several years with people on the Navaho 11 Reservation in Northern Arizona, and have been understanding 12 from them that the uranium mining there went on for about a 13 hundred years, and there is still open uranium tailings 14 blowing in the area, a high rate of lung disease, 15 tuberculosis, and birth defects, and the cycle of death that 16 started from uranium mining is continuing today with the use 17 of ttis uranium and plutonium for power in the nuclear power 18 indust ry .
19 The use of uranium and plutonium, the atoms being 20 split and harnessed for energy is not necessary. We have 21 other means of producing energy that do not depend upon the 22 nuclear explosion. We do not need to continue using fossil 23 fuels. We have solar, wind, turbine. So there is a whole 24 cycle of things that will continue to kill us unless we stop 25 and make a serious judgment look at where we are right now.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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(202) 293-3950 ]
328 1 The future looks to be a little bit more b
\- 2 promising, the people in my generation, a lot of people have 3 more hope and more inspiration, a positive outlook that we 4 can make a difference.
S The ozone layer is getting larger. There is more 6 of a problem with pollution. Our food is being irradiated.
7 There is a serious issue about what is going to happen with 0 the fate of the earth, and the nuclear power industry is 9 part of an old way that needs to be turned over, and needs 10 to be seriously looked at for the probleins of the wasts, and 11 where arc we going to put it, for the problems of what is 12 going to happen if there is an earthquake in this area.
13 The nuclear testing that goes on heats up the
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l i 14 earth, and the electromagnetic field, and the earth is not
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15 able to absorb this energy, and so it causes more volcanos 16 and more earthquakes. So, in this way, it makes it even 17 more dangerous to continue having the power plant located in 18 this area on this earthquake fault.
l l 19 The tax dollars that come from the people that.
20 work all the time go to the' government, and the government i
21 makes the decisions on where the subsidies and where the i
L 22 grants go for helping our society grow. In light of the 23- recent Administration-changes with the Clinton and Bush 24 changing office, there has to be more of a comprehensive 25 look at our future, and more of u-priority put upon the i
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329 .
1 survival, and a priority put upon finding a way for the 2 future generations to continue to live without polluted 3 water, and without polluted air, and without having to worry 4 about if nuclear energy is going to destroy us in an 5 earthquake, or if the uranium tailings are going to continue 6 blowing.
7 I would really urge the people that work at PG&E 8 to really consider, in looking at what their jobs are, and 9 find a way to talk to the people in Mothers for Peace, and 10 really get the whole issues put together, and talk to each 11 other, and find a way to meet the needs of all the 12 community, and the energy needs of our future without havi.ng 13 to depend upon something that is very shaky at best, and 14 will probably kills us in the long .run.
q 15 Thank you.
16 (Applause.]
17 MR. RAPPA: Hello. My name is Russ Rappa. I am 18 from Santa Barbara.
19 I would like to explain in this speech, I have a 20 brain tumor. I have had four strokes from it. .It is not 21 fun. I was given sixteen to twenty months to live in 1980, 22 New Year's Eve.
23 The best scenario I hear in favor of the nuclear 24 power plant, this one or any one, but this one in 25 particular, the best scenario, a perfectly good plant is
/~'T ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
k# Coud Reponers 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
330 1 still on a fault, and it still emits radiation. It still O 2 produces is enough to have a build up of radioactive vaste.
3 That is the best scenario, and it is no good. It must stop 4 as soon as possible.
5 I heard a man speak out of fear. Fear that the 6 Japanese will have a better toy than us. Sacrifices must be 7 made now. We Americans have to make sacrifices. Wouldn't 8 you give up your extra, your second and your third TV, if 9 you knew it would keep your children alive. How much energy 10 do we have to spend to feel good about ourselves? Make some 11 sluple sacrifices so that we can have health children, not 12 dying children.
13 Two women spoke of babies up here, and I heard l
14 them both. I was very proud of what they had to say. one
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v 15 was my woman and my child. I never thought I would have 16 that almost ten years ago when I was told I only had sixteen 17 to twenty months to live. Much of what I did to get well 18 had to do with getting back to nature.
19 Thank you.
20 [ Applause.]
21 MR. MERKEL: Hello. My name is Jim Merkel. I 22 live in San Luis Obispo, 392 Pismo Street, and I would like 23 to ask the Judges and the NRC not to grant the license 24 extension and, in fact, to shut Diablo down now.
25 I grew up next to the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters i 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293 3950
331 1 on Long Island,._and was in high school,-15,000 people went
'O-_ 2 to the beaches and protested, and they never opened the-3 plant. It was completely built, and my understanding is it 4 was sold for one dollar, and it was more economical for them 5 to do that than to even start it up and operate it. So I 6 believe that the economics of Diablo is not realistic 7 either.
8 Also, I think it is every undemocratic to be 9 submitted to the low-level radiation without consent. The 10 aging problems of the nuclear power plants are serious 11 concerns, and they haven't been studied because the nuclear 12 plants have not been around long enough to study the aging 13 problems.
14 Also, I would like to just as a question for the 15 Judges to try to find the answer to this, it is'to find out 7
16 what kind of health data was taken before the plant ever 17 came into operation, comprehensive, very comprehensive 18 health data of all the people living in the area before the 19 plant went on line, so that then we could compare 20 afterwards, d
21 I don't think this data was ever taken, and .in the l
22 kind of serious study that we would need to really-23 understand the kind of health effects that it is having. I 24 just can't even believe that a plant like this could get 25 running, and PG&E could be so irresponsible not to -- it is O
v ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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332 ,
1_ not PG&E, I mean the NRC to allow this to happen.
O 2 I went to PG&E's Alternative Energy Research 3 Facility, and I have been an electrical engineer for twelve 4 years, and they are dabbling with 20-year old technology 5 there. They have what they call a green energy mix, which 6 is very brown.
7 When I asked them if they would consider allowing 8 the citizens to choose their own energy choice, and even 9 pay, if solar costs more, the people will pay you whatever 10 that amount is, and they will pay, and you can choose. You 11 would have on your bill a little list, and you check the 12 box, and you pay the rate for which energy you want to pay 13 for. The response was that they didn't think they could 14 supply enough energy, even if the peoplo paid for it. That
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i 15 just didn't make sense to me.
16 So I don't really think they are working too hard 17 on alternatives. I called them to do an energy audit, and 18 they did bring me out fluorescent light bulbs, and they were 19 very polite, and very nice people, but_I also worked on 20 Earth Day 1990, '91 and '92 here,, and PG&E was very hot to 21 participate. After hours and hours and hours of just 22 arguing over letting them even show their face around, we 23 allowed them to be in the Earth Day Fair. The next day in 24 the Iglearam TrihMDg they proclaimed to be a green company 25 endorsed by the Earth Day Coalition in the paper. This is ANN R1 LEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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333 1 1 the kind of thing that we were warning the newcomers to town
< O- 2 that this is what would happen, but we gave them a chance l
3 and they blew it right away.
4 So people who go around for PG&E painting a happy 5 face on a toxic waste dump, it is really unconscionable, and 6 I. don't mean anything directly to them, but I can't 7 understand how they could do their job.
8 This plant was built on sacred Chumash grounds, 9 and I have been there with the Chumash people, and their 10 ancestors -- I held the elder Chumash woman say today that '
11 their ancestors who were buried there, and their bones were 12 torn up when that plant was put there, they had been there 13 for over 10,000 years. Ne other native people have been in 14 one area, same people, same families, for 10,000 years, 15 anywhere in the world, and here these people were. Their 16 ancestors have more power than that plant will ever generate 17 in its lifetime, the power of those ancestors that are la there, and that is the kind of healing that will come about, 19 hopefully, when that plant closes down, the native people 20 are going to have to heal the earth.
21 So when PG&E runs their propaganda, and they have 22 the smiling faces as they show the children filing on to 23 buses on an cyacuation plan that I get in the mail on 24 colored glossy paper, it is getting recycled now, it just-25 really makes me sad, and I can't understand how grown-ups-ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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334 1 can do things like this. It is very irresponsible.
2 I know it is hard for the people, the unions, it 3 is hard to bite the hand that feeds you, so they come here 4 and they speak in favor of it. I worked in the defense 5 industry, and I now call it the offense industry, and I 6 worked in it for six years, and I don't do it anymore, when 7 I was in there, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, 8 so I understand what people feel, that they don't feel they 9 are doing anything wrong. But now I look back, and I felt I 10 did a real injustice to the world to take money from the 11 taxpayers to build weapons that will help kill people.
12 So, in the same way, I would ask the union people 13 to think about job security. They think that they will have
/~% 14 thousands of years to be watching over these containment 15 things, and the guys from the electrical union will have 16 thousands of years of jobs, but the survival, we are talking 17 about geologic time that these containers are going-to have 18 to be watched, not just their own lifespans, and their 19 children's. I don't think anyone can understand what 20 geological time is unless they really stop and think about 21 it, d
22 One other last point is the jobs that would be 23 generated from renewable energies would far exceed these 24 high paying jobs that PG&E people.get paid right now, and it 25 could produce far more jobs through renewables. So,-I think ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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J 335 1 we have a lot of options, and shouldn't continue this plant 2 any longer than today.
3 (Applause.)
4 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Barbara Schaeffer?
S AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: She left.
6 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Stacey Hart?
7 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Stacey spoke already.
8 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Don Hamilton?
9 (No response.)
10 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Larry Garwin?
11 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: He is out in the hallway.
12 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Charles Allen?
13 We vill hear Hr. Garwin, if he is there.
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.14 Char.les Allen?
15 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: He left.
16 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Franklin Wakefield?
17 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: He left.
18 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: John Deccia?
19 [No response.]
20 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Larry Bross?
21 MR. BROSS: Thank you.,
22 I put my time in the service. I am a retired 23 teacher. I taught for 30 years in Palo Alto.. I came down 24 here to retire, but I never did retire. I am banging nails, l
25 and enjoy it. I love the central coast. You guys ought to
["] ANN Ri!.EY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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336 1 spend some time here.
2 I guess the way to start, I think what I am is a 3 witness. I bought a piece of property here 25 years ago in 4 Oceano. I asked this gentleman if he knew where oceano was, 5 it is downwind from Diablo. It is right on the beach. It 6 is a beautiful beach, San Luis Obispo Bay is beautiful.
7 Eighteen years ago when the battle was being 8 fought, and I also fought battles in Vietnam, I came down 9 here. I had this piece of property, a little cabin, and I 10 knew it was happening, and it is kind of interesting. I say 11 I am a witness, and I would much rather speak to you people, 12 if you don't mind. I say I am a witness because I was 13 involved in the protest, and it was a strange protest 14 because in the Vietnam protest, we just got out on the 15 streets, and laid our bodies on the streets. Here in San 16 Luis Obispo County, Mothers for Peace, we had training. If 17 you recal=1, those of you who were here, there had to be this 18 peaceful type training before you could be involved in the 19 protest, and we informed the cops -- pardon me, I use the 20 word " cops," I am from Brooklyn.
21 We informed the cops, different from the Vietnam 22 protest, when we were going to have a protest. I am from-23 Brooklyn, I disagreed. I said, "We are going to lose tho' 24 war." Jackson Browne who ---you kids know Jackson Browne 25 better than I do -- Jackson Browne wanted to come down with'
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ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
Court Reporters 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202)-293-3950
337 1 a contingent of people from L.A., from San Francisco and
!n) v 2 hold massive demonstrations, '60s like. The people of San 3 Luis Obispo County didn't want to do that. We lost the war.
4 I got kind of thrown out of the protest.
5 I ask you, if you were trying to build the plant 6 today with this kind of consciousness you have heard around 7 here, and I am kind of really proud cf these people, if you 8 were trying to build this plant, do y ou think you would get 9 to first base?
10 Now you are trying to build a plant for 14 more -
11 years, and I think what I should say to you is, beware, just 12 beware, because you are going to see '60s type of protests.
13 No more peaceful demonstrations.
T 14 [ Applause.)
(O 15 MR. BROSS: The pcople from Bakersfield come down 36 here on Memorial Day, 30,000 people come out on the beach, 17 and now they have restricted it. The State has come in, and 18 they have restricted it.
19 We could bring, we hope, people out on the beach 20 and protest. I mean lay our bodies down. That is the only 21 way we are going to stop you. We know it. That is the only 22 way, because you are here to license this thing, and I will 23 warn you, don't do it. Like this doctor said, just don't do 24 it.
25 [ Applause.]
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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338 1 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Bill Denneen?
O 2 MR. DENNEEN: My name is Bill Denneen. I come 3 from Nipoco, and I would like to go back 25 years ago. I 4 was living in Santa Maria, which is downwind from Diablo, 5 and I was asked to be on a program talking about nuclear 6 power. My field is biology.
7 I am not going to talk tonight about biology, I am 8 going to talk about geology, because the other speaker on 9 the program in Santa Maria 25 years ago was Ralph Verona. I 10 didn't know much about geology. I was going to be the 11 second speaker. My subject was biology. I am not going to 12 talk about that.
13 Anyway, he talked about the Edna Fault, which is 14 five miles from the plant. He talked about the San Andreas f]
V 15 Fault. He talked about the Anacimento Fault. He talked 16 about the Los Osos Fault, the Murray Ocean Fractured Zone, 17 and other things. I didn't quite understand what he was 18 talking about, and he said, "Right off shore" -- he took his 19 charts out, and he said, "There is a fault off the 20 shoreline." I remember reading in the paper that said, 21 "PG&E says no fault offshore."
22 I told him, I said, "Something is wrong, either 23 Ralph is wrong, or PG&E is wrong." That is 25 years ago.
24 PG&E was wrong. They should pay for their mistake by 25 closing that plant when their time is up. They made the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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339 g- 1 mistake. They reversed the blueprints. They made the
- 2 mistake. They should not have an extension of time.
3 I am short. I think that is it.
4 (Applause.) .
5 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Martin Braun.
6 MR. BRAUN: My name is Martin Braun. I am here at 7 first just to be a witness, and see what was going on, and 8 see if Cal Poly would be out here with the students, and 9 unfortunately, going through finals, I can see that they 10 wouldn't be, 11 I live out in Morro Bay, and am a student at Cal 12 Poly, and actually I am pretty shocked by how San Luis 13 Obispo actually came out here, and some other people came P
14 out here, and actually coming against Diablo. I think it is 15 wonderful.
16 Being from the bay area, I grew up in-the bay 17 area, and I am kind of used to all of that, and I have never 18 been involved with it. Actually, what is getting me 19 involved now is this woman that told me, she is older, she 20 -and I had a very good discussion about the environment, and 21 she said, "I am too old. I can't talk. They are not going 22 to listen to me, it is up to you guys, the young ones."
23 I said, "Wcll, that is kind of lame. You know, 24 you still have a choice, you still can do it."
i 25 She said, "Yes, but you are stronger than I am, go
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340 1 for it." I thought about this a lot, and so I started get-2 more jnvolved. I thought.back, being brought up in the bay 3 area, I would like to go out fishing. You ought to try it, 4 and I saw something that was really alarming, a big industry 5 pumping crap into the bay, San Pablo Bay.
It used to be you could catch fish like crazy, 6
7 stripped bass, and now you pull out fish that have wholes in 8 them and looked deformed. If you look in any of the 9 regulatories there, you can't pull fish out. If you are 10 pregnant, you can't eat a fish. All right, you women, don't 11 eat fish. Why, because it is filled with mercury.
12 This kind of frightens me because this keeps going 13 on. People in South America, what are they doing, ,
() 14 15 extracting gold or using mercury to contaminate people down there. Now the hot item is rainforests. Well, the United 16 States happens to be the biggest consumer of natural 17 resources, including the stuff to_ pump Diablo and keep it 18 going. What are we doing?
19 I look at all of us, right, and I take a look at 20 people here that are thinking long-term, long-term. I take 21 a look at people over here that are thinking short-term, big 22 business, lawyers, no conscience, no. conscience. It is 23 money now, money in pocket, reaching in your pocket and 24 grabbing keys and grabbing money. It is paying off.
25 I studied computer science at Cal Poly. I was ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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341 1 with the aeronautics robotics competition. We competed over 2 in Georgia Tech and tied for second place. They said, you 3 can't do it. You can't have something that will fly in the 4 air, be able to pick up a puck, and to be able to go to the 5 other side and drop it. They said you couldn't even get the 6 thing off the ground. We got it off the ground. It 7 crashed. Others crashed. But later on we got it there, we 8 picked up the puck, and we got it, and dropped it.
9 People looked at us and said, it is unbelievable.
10 You spent six months on this project. I spent three nights 11 and days, no sleep. We drove -- my wife, sitting right over 12 there -- she and I drove from here to Atlanta, Georgia, in 13 54 hours6.25e-4 days <br />0.015 hours <br />8.928571e-5 weeks <br />2.0547e-5 months <br />.
14 If this energy was put into solar and other
(
15 resources instead of day care centers, or bomb systems and 16 all these other things, we could go somewhere. But this is 17 a signal to me. I learned this in business when I got an 18 A.A. from Santa Rosa Junior College of Business, in a basic 19 business class. This is marketing, advertisement, an 20 advertisement to say, "We are a good neighbor, and we help 21 out the community."
22 If you were a really good neighbor, and you 23 thought that you wanted to promote something else other than 24 Diabl o, why not pump money into able minds, students that 25 are thriving to go to Australia Solar Competition, computer O ^NN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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I 342 -,
1 scientists that want to program, engineers. We just closed O 2 our EE. We need help. Why don't you help us instead of 3 this fake advertisement. There is another opportunity.
4 That is all I have to say, and please have a 5 conscience.
6 [ Applause.]
7 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Sheila Wynne?
8 [No response.]
9 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: John Beccia?
10 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: John and Sheila aren't 11 here.
12 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: How many here in the room wish 13 to make statements, I am going down various lists, and I am j 14 not sure I see you, so why don't you come up and identify 15 yourself.
16 MR. RIGUER: Thank you.
i 17 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Are you on one of these-lists?
18 MR. RIGUER: I should be. My name is Ron Riguer, 19 arid I live in San Luis Obispo, and I work at Cal _ Poly. I am 20 sorry, I wouldn't be able to come back tomorrow.
21 Someone said earlier the statement about-corporate
, 22 civic responsibility was irrelevant, and I don't know about 23 that. It is important to me, and I guess you will decide
, 24 for yourselves, but I do have such a statement to make.
25 I am manager of an arts program at Cal Poly,:and I O ^"" ai'ev ^ ^SSoci^Tes' 'ta-Coud RepOders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
343 1 come here tonight to offer you a brief glimpse, a person g3 2 glimpse of the measure of community involvement and support 3 that is practiced by the local PG&E division.
4 First while, I note full well that donations to 5 the arts are not at the top of their priority list 6 necessarily. My program has certainly been a beneficiary of 7 PG&E's support, as have others. PG&E was our first 8 corporate supporter when our program really needed it and 9 was in its infancy, and they sustained that involvement 10 through the years.
11 It has been my experience more often than not that 12 when PG&E decides to support a community agency or project 13 that they weigh in with more than just the cash, that they
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14 offer facilities and other resources, and that their staff 15 contributed effort and expertise often both on company time 16 and off, and it is this quiet behind the scenes activity 17 that, at least to me, is often more vitally important to the 18 project success than the cash.
19 Beyond support for the arts, I have recently been 20 involved with PG&E on two other projects, first, as 21 president of one of the two local Rotary Clubs, I worked 22 with PG&E's Public Affairs Department on the sponsorship or 23 cosponsorship of two or three candidate forums prior to the 24 recent elections. The support that they put into it was 25 great from my perspective, and there was substantial O ^"" ai'ev & ^ssoci^Tes. 'ta-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
344 1 community benefit as a result.
2 Finally, and my remarks are brief, in part because 3 I am mostly adding to what Frank Drake had to offer earlier, 4 I was a coordinating Committee member for a community-wide 5 forum for not-for-profit agencios conducted last month, and 6 while PG&E did make a significant financial commitment to 7 this project, their staff also put in a heck of a lot of 8 time, and over a two-day period a very large number of local 9 service organizations, not-for-profit agencies, their staffs 10 and volunteers learned how to collaborate together to make 11 this a better community.
12 In fact, based on my personal experience, I 13 believe that PG&E's design for community involvement is one
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14 that promotes cooperation in dealing with community issues, 15 and taking advantage of community opportunities, and I 16 commend them for this commitment.
17 Thank you.
18 [ Applause.]
19 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Is there anyone else-who wishes 20 to speak?
21 MR. ALLEN: My name is Charlie Allen. I heard 22 that you called me, but I was out in the hallway.
23 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Okay..
24 MR. ALLEN: I just wanted to say, long after 25 everyone in this room is dead, the waste from Diablo Canyon Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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345 l
l 1 will still be a problem to deal with, and now I hear that O' 2 the nuclear industry is trying to say that in 50 years 3 nuclear waste is going to be a valuable commodity. I really 4 doubt that, and I think that is kind of a sick way to pass 5 this on, and act as if we are leaving a gift to our children 6 when we are actually leaving them a tremendous pain in the 7 butt.
8 I also heard a lot of people come up here and talk 9 about the intelligent, and the hardworking, and the skilled 10 craftsmen who work at Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, and 11 that is true. There is a lot of very talented people who 12 work out there, but the truth of the matter is that nuclear 13 power cannot be made safe. It produces this waste that will 14 last for generations. There is no way we can ensure its 15 safety.
16 one of the things I was looking at before I came 17 up here was, I was thinking about times in history when 18 people thought things were one way only to find out later 19 that they weren't how they thought they werc. Just 20 recently, we had the collapse of the Soviet Union, and a lot 21 of experts in America paid for by our government were caught 22 by surprise. They didn't know this was coming.
23 There are always surprises, always new things 24 coming up. In geology we are finding out new things all the 25 time. Just last week, I heard the found two new faults O ^"" ai'ev & Associ^Tes. 'id-Coud Repoders 1612 K. Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D. C. 20006 I (202) 293-3950
346 I
<~ 1 underneath the City of Los Angeles. There are things going
- 2 on that we don't know, and I don't want to hear from a PG&E 3 spokesman, " Oops, we didn't know that was going to happen."
4 PG&E made a lot of mistakes in building the Diablo Canyon 5 Nuclear Power Plant. They shouldn't be rewarded for those 6 mistakes and given extra time.
7 I can remember my first job. I worked at a 8 hardware store, and when I was working there as one of my 9 first jobs, I was doing refunds, and the manager came up to 10 me, and he said, "You know, remember that the customer is 11 always right."
12 I am a ratepayer of PG&E, and I am a customer, and 13 I don't want to pay for nuclear power. That is simple. I 14 don't care if it is safe, I don't care if you believe (V~'h 15 everything else. I don't want to do it. I don't want to 16 pay for it. I want to pay for something else.
17 The future that I want to leave for my son is a 18 future with renewable energy sources, with compact 19 fluorescent light bulbs, and ultra efficient refrigerators, 20 and solar hot water heaters, things that are not going to 21 pose a real danger to him.
22 Thank you very much.
23 [ Applause.]
24 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Are there others in the 25 audience who wish to make statements of the people here now?
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347 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, may I have an additional 40.
2 seconds?
3 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Yes.
4 MR. CAMPBELL: This is still Bruce Campbell from 5 Los Angeles.
6 Most of you probably remember back in the Fa)1 of 7 1981 during the large direct action when the engineer came 8 forward with the news about the switched blueprints for 9 seismic reinforcement in the auxiliary cooling system, and 10 that delayed the project for a while.
11 After that, the government accountability project 12 came out to be assistance to whistleblowing workers, and I 13 believe the figure, at one point, was-105 workers came 14 forward with sworn testimony about 3,000 problems at the 15 Diablo facility, but, of course, at that point there had 16 been at least $4.6 billion spent on it by the time it fired 17 up, so, obviously, the billions would steamroll over even 18 105 workers, and 3,000 sworn problems at the plant.
19 Anyway, those 3,000 sworn problems, of which I am 20 sure there are a lot more sworn problems, and plenty of 21 unsworn problems that have been swept under the rug. The 22 carpet needs to be removed, and examine those problems.
23 Thank you.
24 [ Applause.)
25 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Hello, my name is Greg. I p# ANN RlLEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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348 1 am with Greenpeace L.A.
2 Do you gentlemen know what a mass murderer.is, 3 like Christopher Columbus or Hitler?
4 PG&E is that, they are mass murderers. Plutonium 5 has a half-life of 25,000 years. It stays poisonous for 6 250,000 years. My generation has to take care of it. Why?
7 Can you answer that question, please, can you 8 honestly answer that question?
9 Can you honestly go to sleep at night knowing you 10 did something write?
11 I am with a nonviolent group, but sometimes I 12 swear I could quit Greenpeace and go after you guys. Mother 13 Earth is crying, she is asking for herself, and we are 14 poisoning her. How can you sleep with yourself at night?
[}
15 Do any of you have any children, would you take 16 them to Diablo, inside?
17 Anybody who would take their kids into Diablo is 18 stupid, in my book. Little kids, brainwashing them.
19 I was in the Marine Corps., I did my time. That 20 .was the biggest mistake of my life, but it showed me what 21 the government really cares'about us. ' San onofre is right.
22 next to Camp Pendleton. If that goes into meltdown,_all 23 those Marines are wiped out.
24 From being in the Marine Corps., from being in 25 Saudi Arabia, I have parasites in my blood system now.
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,f g i Thanks a lot government.
' 2 You guys work for the government, my taxpaying 3 money, why don't you help us instead of helping them, 4 helping their wallets. There are a lot of us that aren't 5 going to stay nonviolent.
6 Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: It appears to us that people 9 who have requested statement opportunities, do you wish to 10 make one?
11 Did you previously make one?
12 MS. BAKER: I passed on to the Santa Monica 13 people.
14 JUDGE DECHHOEFER: Why don't you make yours, and
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15 then we will be back in the morning to hear further ones.
16 MS. BAKER: Thank you.
17 I am Sheila Baker, and thank you for ellowing me 18 to speak tonight. What I would have said earlier, some 19 people have touched on. I got interested in indigenous 20 issues a couple of years ago, and-learned about the uranium 21 cycle from the Navajo point of view, how it' feels to be j22 involved with family that-has worked in the uranium mines, 23 and that has experienced leukemias and lung cancers from 24 working in those strip mit.as, and that a lot of the men are 25 now passed on at the-Navajo Reservation from working in Q ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, Ltd.
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350 1 those mines. This la the material that ultimately goes to 2 PG&E.
3 Also, PG&E, as it was mentioned earlier, is 4 sitting on the site of very, very special burial grounds.
5 People who have been in this county for 10,000 years. I 6 believe that 10 hundred centuries, long before you and I, so 7 the ancestors of the present day Chumash are buried under 8 the site of PG6E.
9 Then we come to the end product. What do we do ;
.. with the low-level radiation that is in Ward Valley and on 11 the Mojave Reservation?
12 There are a lot of really fine activists that are 13 fighting the proposal to put low-level radiation on that 14 reservation. There are a lot of Indian activists that are 15 fighting it. There are spiritual runners who are running on 16 a regular basis, and that means to call the spirits in a 17 good way that would keep this away, and to allow this not to 18 happen, not to have the products from PG&E to go to the 19 Hojave Desert on an Indian reservation, because people don't 20 want it. There is no place to go with this.
21 I thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Could we have one more from 24 Los Angelsa speak before you go back on the list?
25 JUDGE BECHHOEFER: Okay.
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351 1 MR. REYNOLDSt Thank you very much for giving no 4
2 the chance before I go back to L.A. I am Neal Reynolds from 3 L.A. You can tell, at my ago, I used to be a science 4 fiction fan. I used to think atomic energy was really 5 great. They didn't tell us about the wasto, and I fool just 6 the problem of what to do with the wasto, this is the very l 7 important thing.
8 Comments have been 1.; ado about peoplo like myself 9 and my friends from Los Angeles, like, hoy, what are we 10 doing here, it should be just the people of the county, but 11 we are on this carth. Wherever there is a moltdown, 12 wherever there is an atomic accident, it is going to affect 13 me in Los Angeles, or whorever, it is going to affect 14 overybody, to a lessor event than if I am right hero, but it 15 is still is going to affect everybody. So the safoty of a 16 reactor in Japan is my concern just as much as the safoty of 17 the reactor here. That is the main point.
18 So I do thank you for the time.
19 (Applause.)
20 JUDGE DECHHoEFER: With that, we will adjourn for 21 the evening. We will be back at nine o' clock for further 22 statements 23 (Whereupon, at 10:55 p.m., the public hearing was 24 recessed to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., Friday, December 11, 25 1992.]
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I REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE :
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This is to certify that the attached proceed-ings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter oft NAME OF PROCEEDING: Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, et al. '
DOCKET NUMBER: 50-275-OLA-2, et al. .
PLACE OF PROCEEDING: San Luis Obispo, California were held as herein appears, and that thi is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission ,
taken by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting i by me or under the direction of the court report-ing company, and_that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
O ennsd
! aS Official Reporter Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
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