ML20214L017
| ML20214L017 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Limerick  |
| Issue date: | 08/18/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-503 OL, NUDOCS 8608250026 | |
| Download: ML20214L017 (128) | |
Text
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ORIGINAL' Uh11EU STATES o/ NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-352 OL 50-353 OL PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY (Limerick Generating Station, Units 1 and 2)
O LOCATION: PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA PAGES: 21170 - 21291 l
DATE: MONDAY, AUGUST 18, 1986 1 I ll sb>
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ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OffiaalReporters 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (202)347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERACE
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, UNITED' STATES OF AMERICA 2' . NUCLEAR REGULATORY. COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING' BOARD
- - -.- - - -x In the Matter of: :
5 : ~ Docket No. 50-352 OL
' PHILADELPHIA' ELECTRIC COMPANY : ~50-353'OL-6 .
(Limerick Generating Station,- :
7 Units 1 and.2) :
8 ' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 9
Old Customs Courtroom 10 United States Customs. House Room 300 Second and Chestnut Streets 11 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 12 Monday, August 18, . 1986 14 The hearing in the above-entitled matter convened at
-15 11:30 a.m.
16 BEFORE:
17
- JUDGE HELEN F. HOYT, Chairman 10 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 19 Washington, D. C.
l 20 JUDGE RICHARD F. COLE, Member Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 21 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
- Washington, D. C.
. 22 i JUDGE JERRY HARBOUR, Member
( 23 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
' 24 O 25
-- continued --
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! ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. '
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-21171
_ , _ , . APPEARANCES:
2 o On behalf of Philadelphia Electric Company:
'3 ROBERT M. RADER, ESQ.
4 TROY B. CONNER,.JR., ESQ.
Conner & Wetterhahn, P.C.
1747 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
5 Washington, D. C. 20006 6 On behalf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:
RALPH J. HIPPERT 8 Deputy Director, Plans & Preparedness MARK GOODWIN 9 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency 10 Room B-151 Transportation & Safety Building 11 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania On behalf of Limerick Ecology Action:
2
(~) MAUREEN MULLIGAN x- 13 Limerick Ecology Action
- Box 761 14 Pottstown, Pennsylvania 15 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Staff
16 BENJAMIN H. VOGLER, ESQ.
17 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
, Office of General Counsel Washington, D. C. 20555 8
On behalf of FEMA:
19 RICK Z. KINNARD 20 JAMES ASHER 21 22 23 24 i
i (1) 25 i
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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__ q q E I E N_ T_ E 2 WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS EXAM 3 Vicent Boyer, Robert Bradshaw 4
and 5
Roberta Kankus(Resumed) by Mr. Conner 21184 6
by Mr. Stone 21191 by Mr. Goodwin 21217 7
by Judge Cole 21222 by Judge Hoyt 21223-g by Judge Cole 21226 by Judge Hoyt 21227
.9 Lindley Bigelow 10 and Timothy R. S. Campbell (Resumed) 11 by Mr. Conner 21229 by Mr. Stone 21233 12 by Mr. Goodwin 21251 by Judge Hoyt 21262
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\. 13 Ralph J. Hippert(Resumed) 14 by Mr. Goodwin 21266 by Mr. Conner 21268 15 by Mr. Stone 21269 16 James R. Asher and 7
Richard S. Kinard(Resumed) by Mr. Hirsch 21278 18 by Mr. Stone 21280 by Judge Cole 21286 19 20 LAY-IN - TESTIMONY OF ROBERTS AND DOCUMENT FROM KANKUS TO DISTRIBUTION, 8/4/86, Follows Page 21189.
21 LAY-IN - TESTIMONY OF HIPPERT AND PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS, Follows Page 21265.
22 LAY-IN - PREFILLED TESTIMONY OF ASHER AND KINARD, Follows Page 21279.
23 EEELEIIE 24 NUMBER-DESCRIPTION IDENTIFIED RECEIVED O 25 Exhibit LEA E Document to Boyer from 21262 l Campbell, 12/28/84 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347 3700 Nationwide Coverase 800 336 6646
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l ,P,R O C E E D I,N,G S 2 JUDGE HOYT: Let the. hearing come to order. In 3 opening the proceedings today,.I have a-brief background 4 review of the events leading up to this hearing.
5 On May 7, 1986, the Appeal Board in ALAB 836 6 remanded a portionaof this Board's third partial initial 7 decision on the issue of the school bus driver availability 8 for the Spring-Ford and Owen J. Roberts School. Districts.
9 The Appeal Board concluded-that there was not adequate 10 support in the record, insofar as the Spring-Ford and Owen 11 J.-Roberts School Districts are concerned, that there is-a 12 reasonable assurance that sufficient number of bus drivers
() 13 are willing to respond to an emergency at Limerick.
14 By our order of May 22,.1986, we established 15 this procedure for the licensee to submit a proposal for 16 the resolution of the remanded issue within 20 days from 17 the service date of the order.
18 By requiring the licensee to submit a proposal, 19 the board recognized the principle, familiar to all, that 20 the licensee has the burden of going forward with the 21 evidence and, indeed, has the burden of proof assigned to 22 it by the regulation of this Commission.
23 A proposal was submitted by the licensee but 24 found by LEA, the Intervenor and sponsor of the contention 25 questioning the issue of sufficient school bus drivers, to ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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9 1 .beiinadequate.
2- ByLa telephone conference call'on July 17, 1986, 3: -memorialized by a_ Board: order of. July 21, 1986, a schedule
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4 was established for resolution, issuing.a hearing;Ldates 5 ;for prefiled testimony to be submitted simultaneously by 6 the' parties, was to be filed before.th'is-hearing was:
established.
8 A further telephone. conference call, located at 9 -transcript 21,158 through 21,169 in the transcripts.of this 10 proceeding;on August. 14,'1986, the licensee was required-.to -
11 make available the list of 200 drivers and other documents 12 _ requested by LEA dealing:with the identification of these-d) 13 PECO volunteer drivers. The 200 names given to LEA since-
- 14 August 14 had previously been identified in the larger 15 group of 570 driver forms of PECO employees who had 16 indicated a willingness to drive a bus during an emergency 17 at Limerick.
18 These 570 driver forms were submitted earlier 19 and are in the hands of all the parties.
t-
- . 20 We remind the parties that the hearing today is 21 rather short and we will proceed without interruption, 1
, 22 providing brief rest periods during this session.
23 Cooperation in having witnesses and documents available 24 when needed will be helpful. Any documents submitted will i
25 be in three, I repeat, three copies and no document will be 4
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1 : marked-as'an exhibit for-ident'ification unless-in three 2 copies.
3' No:documentionce-marked as an exhibit will be '
-4. removed from the custody and control'of-the reporter.
5 .At the conclusion of the hearing, the reporter ,
6 willibe given an opportu'nity-to ensure that all copies are~
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7 available for.the record before-the record is closed.
~
8 Mr. Conner, are you ready to proceed for the 9 Applicant?
L~ 10 MR. CONNER: We are'indeed.
- 11 JUDGE.HOYT
- Very well.'
, 12 MR. CONNER: I would preliminarily.like-to ask -
() 13 Mr. Rader to describe what was done in response to the 14 discovery requests that were the subject'of the prehearing 15 conference call last Thursday, August 14, that you have 16 just-alluded to.
1: 17 JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Mr. Rader?
l '18 MR. RADER: .Your Honor, you will recall at the 1
19 time of the conference call, in response to the subpoena-f a
20 request, the licensee agreed voluntarily to provide LEA 1-
- 21 with a copy of the volunteer sheets for the 200 volunteers.-
22 We provided those Friday afternoon. Pursuant to that i- 23 agreement we will now provide to the Board members and the i
[;
24 other parties the sheets of the 200 volunteer employees.
25 At the time of the Thursday conference call we
-( )
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I also' agreed to provide any documents relating to the 2 solicitation of those volunteers in the form of memos to 3 their supervisors or the employees themselves. We searched 4 our files and discovered three pertinent 1 documents which we 5 will'now also provide'to the Board and parties.
6 In addition, there is one matter of a problem in
- 7 duplication we had on Friday; when we submitted the 200 8 names to LEA, we submitted two duplicates, maybe, of 9 Mr. Parish. We are now supplementing and we will provide 10 it to LEA at this time.
11 JUDGE HOYT: What's the nature of those three 12 documents that you found since the conference call on
( )- 13 August 14th, Mr. Rader?
14 MR. RADER: These are memoranda from various 15 people at PE headquarters to the various department heads 16 in the field who are the supervisors of the volunteers.
17 JUDGE HOYT: That's in response to one of the 18 requests that LEA had made in their submission on-this 19 point?
20 MR. RADER: That's correct. It's in response to 21 the first request.
22 JUDGE HOYT: Have you submitted those to LEA as 23 yet?
24 MR. RADER: We are doing that at this time. We 25 do not intend to offer any of these documents as licensee
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2- . JUDGE HOYT: .Very well._ The. transcript:of the.
3 conference call-.on August 14thlis-here on-the desk. My ll -recollection, reading thel transcript, is the--remarks of 5 Mr. Rader_~are consistent with what is: occurring-now.
6 MR.- CONNER: If the Board please,~we would ask 7 -our panel =to_take.the witness table to start.:
8 As stated earlier, Mr. Boyer.and:Mr. Bradshaw1 i 9 were our intended witnesses for this limited remanded Lissue,-
10 but in response.to LEA's desire expressed in its letter of.
1 11 August llth, we would also have Ms.'Kankus~ join the' panel, 12 so whatever LEA has in mind can be developed all at once.
() 13 Following that, we have requested the presence 14 of the responsible county officials from Montgomery and 15 Chester County, Messrs. Bigelow and Campbell, respectively.
16 Following the Applicants panel we would propose to-call 17 them, either as a panel or individually, we don't care, 18 whatever is more expeditious, to simply ask them as to the l- 19 position of each county on the proposed solution that we
(
20 have for the remanded issue.
- _ 21 JUDGE HOYT
- That has not yet been filed as any 1
i 22 prefiled testimony, Mr. Conner.
l 23 MR. CONNER: No, sir -- no, ma'am.
l 24 MR. STONE: Your Honor, LEA would object to that l
l 25 insofar as we didn't have prefiled testimony for those (1
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1 witnesses and didn't have any idea they would be here today.
2 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, you haven't any prefiled 3 testimony at all. I think this is the case of the -- I-4 believe you do have two witnesses. iou have not. filed any-.
5 prefiled testimony. If you are going to object to this 6' direct testimony,.then I think the' Applicant would very 7 probably object to your witnesses later.
8 I think we have somewhat of a trade-off here.
9 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, I would like 10 to --
11 JUDGE HOYT: Wait just a minute, Mr. Conner.
12 MR. STONE: My only response to that, then,
() 13 would be that we did at least give the name of the 14 subpoenas we intended to subpoena before the weekend and at 15 least gave the parties a chance -- and those witnesses will 16 appear Friday. My objection stands. The Applicant will 17 have to do what he wants to.
18 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, I'm going to require you 19 to have your prefiled testimony then. You have pretty much 20 of a trade-off here, Mr. Stone. This intervening time here 21 has given a broad opportunity for the LEA people to perfect 22 their case, and so far we have seen nothing that you intend 23 to present as your case-in-chief.
24 The only witnesses that Mr. Conner mentioned 25 this morning that had not testified -- that had not been O
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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l identified specifically in this-case, for this particular 2 proceeding, is Mr. Bigelow and Mr. Campbell from the two 3- counties, both of whom, I'm sure-you are well aware of what 4 they are, if they have properly prepared, and know exactly 5 what they are going to say anyway.
6 I- wonder if you aren't- being a little overly 7 cautious, in perhaps using your' objection unadvisedly.
8 MR.-STONE: Depending on the schedule.of these.
9 gentlemen, I would certainly be prepared to cross-examine 10 them on Friday. We could move along today. That's the 11 proposal I would make. If they were planning to come in 12 anyway on Friday, we could handle that then.
n
) 13 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Conner, what testimony did you 14 intend to offer through these witnesses, Campbell and 15 Bigelow?
16- MR. CONNER: If the Board please, I would like 17 the record to reflect in view of Mr. Stone's somewhat 18 astonishing comments, we identified at the prehearing 19 conference --
20 JUDGE HOYT: On which date?
21 MR. CONNER: July 17, 1986.
22 JUDGE HOYT: What page?
23 MR. CONNER: There are several pages. But 24 referring specifically to the two county witnesses on 25 21,126, in particular, we noted the fact that we had ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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'Q l subpoenaed Mr. Bigelow --
- 2 JUDGE HOYT: Let me have a moment to read that, 3 Mr. Conner.
4 MR. CONNER: Surely.
5 JUDGE.HOYT: Mr. Goodwin, do you or-Mr. Hippert 6 intend to call either of these two witnesses, specifically-7 Mr. Campbell?
8 MR. GOODWIN: No, your Honor.
9 JUDGE HOYT: Very well. You retain the position
.10 you took, then, in the prehearing conference on July 17th, 11 that Mr. Hippert would be your only witness and you have 12 already prefiled his testimony.
4
.() 13 Mr. Stone, would you like to read what was said 14 at that conference?
4 15 MR. STONE: I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
16 MR. CONNER: May I give him the additional 17 references, then? ,
18 JUDGE HOYT: Yes.
19 MR. CONNER: In that particular part, it goes on 20 for a page and then the state -- I had noted that 21 Mr. Bigelow had been subpoenaed by us and we would probably 22 do that. I anticipated that Mr. Campbell would again be 23 part of the state's panel. When he was not so identified, 24 at 21,156, I then noted the need that we might have to call 25 Mr. Campbell, since the state had not done so. And as in 1
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1 the past in this proceeding, at no time was_a county 2 official-subpoenaed to appear in this proceeding ever given 3 or required to have prefiled testimony, all of which is LEA 4 -- LEA is charged with knowledge. Whether Mr.-Stone 5 happens to know it or not, I can't tell.- Apparently he 6 hasn't read the transcript. However, Ms. Mulligan and 7 their attorney, Mr. Elliott, were on the telephone call on 8 July 17th.
9 JUDGE HOYT: The record of the conference call 10 recognizes that. Mr. Stone, let me also point out to you 11 page 21,156. I'll let you see that. I believe Mr. Conner 12 did identify Mr. Campbell at that point.
(g j 13 MR. CONNER: We also referred to Mr. Campbell at 14 the initial reference of 21,126, also.
15 JUDGE HOYT: Yes. I have shown that reference 16 to Mr. Stone.
17 MR. STONE: Well, your Honor, since it seems one 18 way or another these two witnesses will appear, I do 19 question whether a subpoena -- and I don't know this -- has 20 been actually issued to both gentlemen.
21 JUDGE HOYT: If the gentlemen volunteered to 22 come in, Mr. Stone, there's no necessity.
23 MR. STONE: I believe the reference here was to 24 talk about subpoenas. But in any event, I just want to 25 make the point that I do believe the prefiled testimony for ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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V' 1 .somebody who appears voluntarily in that sense --
2 JUDGE HOYT: Again, Mr. Stone, that is something 3 -that we have not filed, any prefiled testimony. Please 4 return the copy.
5 There was also a reference Judge Harbour 6 mentioned on 21,157, if you haven't looked at that as well, 7 Mr. Stone.
8 MR. STONE: Your Honor, things stand as they are.
9 JUDGE HOYT: If that's your objection, it's
-10 overruled. Let's proceed.
11 Mr. Conner, I'm going to caution you, though, if 12 any matter is brought up that has not been discussed and
() 13 requires some possible opportunity for these witnesses to 14 be cross-examined on, the next session of this proceeding, 15 which will be on Friday, I'm going to give LEA an 16 opportunity.
17 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, are you 18 referring to Mr. Campbell and Mr. Bigelow?
19 JUDGE HOYT: Yes, that's correct. They have no 20 prefiled testimony.
21 MR. CONNER: Nor have they before and they are 22 both I.ere today and I would hope you could accommodate them, 23 but we will do whatever the Board orders.
24 JUDGE HOYT: We'll see how the testimony goes.
25 If the cross-oxamination of the direct examination and the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 -- subsequent cross-examination disclose matters that need to 2 be further looked into that would not have been available 3 to the Intervenor prior to this. hearing, then they will be 4 given an opportunity to examine on those specific points.
5 MR. CONNER: I would also note for the record 6 that I do.not anticipate any testimony from either of the 7 two county-witnesses that was'not already referred to in 8 the original proposals.that were originally submitted, but 9 of course have no longer any significance in the proceeding.
10 The proposals as such, the substance --
11 JUDGE HOYT: Whatever that is, we'll see how 12 that goes, Mr. Conner, without working any prejudice on any
() 13 party to this proceeding.
14 Call your panel, Mr. Boyer and Mr. Bradshaw --
15 MR. CONNOR: Bradshaw and Ms. Kankus.
16 We will restate that Ms. Kankus is merely a part 17 of the panel for the purpose of the LEA business. I would 18 note that I think all of the witnesses are already sworn.
19 JUDGE HOYT: I don't believe Ms. Kankus has been 20 sworn. My best recollection is she was not.
21 Did you testify before?
22 MS. KANKUS: For on-site hearings, yes.
23 MR. CONNER: On April 23 and 25, 1984 she 24 testified.
25 JUDGE HOYT It has been so long ago.
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1 Ms. Kankus and gentlemen, you had previously taken an oath 2 in this proceeding. I will remind you that the oath that
'3 you took to tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the ,
4 truth before is in effect here and it is in full force and 5 effect.
6 Whereupon, 7 VINCENT BOYER, 8 ROBERT BRADSHAW 9 and 10 ROBERTA KANKUS 11 were resumed as witnesses and, having been previously 12 sworn, were examined and testified as follows:
(i U
13 CROSS-EXAMINATION
-14 BY MR. CONNOR:
(
15 0 Mr. Boyer, are you the same Vincent S. Boyer who 16 previously testified in this proceeding?
17 A (Boyer) I am.
18 0 Mr. Bradshaw, are you the same Robert Bradshaw 19 who previously testified in this proceeding?
20 A (Bradshaw) I am.
21 0 Since your testimony most recently, has there 22 been any chanqo in the nature of ycur professional 23 qualifications?
24 A (Bradshaw) Yes, sir. In my case there is one 25 change with regard to the official name of our corporation, tOv ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 which has changed from Energy Consultants to.Snyder P.C.
2 Management Planning-and Services.
3 0 Ms. Kankus, for the record, are you the same 4 Roberta Kankus who testified in this proceeding'on April'23 5 to 25, 1984?
6 A (Kankus) Yes, I am.
7 0 Mr. Boyer and Mr. Bradshaw, did you prepare the 8 document captioned, " Testimony Relating to Romand Hearing 9 on Availability of Bus-Drivers for Owen J. Roberts and 10 Spring-Ford School Districts" in this proceeding?
l 11 A (Boyer) We did.
12 A (Bradshaw) We did.
() 13 0 Are there any updates or corrections to be made 14 in this testimony?
15 A (Boyer) Yes. Page 5, paragraph 12. We have i
16 updated the information included therein.
17 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, we will do as 18 we had indicated earlier. The scheduling things are moving 19 factors. We said we would update it at the hearing. We 20 have a substitute paragraph 12, which we can provide the 21 Board and parties. Or we can make the changes orally, 22 whichever is more convenient.
23 JUDGE HOYT: How extensive are the changes, 24 Mr. Conner?
l 25 MR. CONNER: The changes 1, 2, 3, 4 -- numbers
/~T l
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l and breaks down one training session into two parts.
2 JUDGE HOYT: Let's do it on the forms, 3 Mr. Conner.
4 MR. CONNER: Okay.
5 BY MR. CONNOR:
6 O Mr. Boyer, would you then go th-cugh paragraph 7 12 and indicate the abanges?
8 A (Boyer) Yes. Paragraph 12, the first line, I 9 will read and indicate the changes.
10 "The schedule for training and testing is as 11 follows: two groups totaling" -- strike "about 60" and 12 substitute "54 volunteers " - " completed training, August
() 13 8, 1986; two other groups totaling" -- strike "about 60" 14 and substitute "47." Strike "will"; make " complete" 15 " completed " - " completed training." Strike "by" and 16 substitute "on August 16, 1986." Strike the rest of that 17 sentence, which reads presently, "and the remainder 18 totaling about 90 will complete training by August 22, 19 1986" and substitute "four other groups totaling 66 will 20 complete training in August 1986 and the remainder, 21 totaling 33, will complete training in September 1986."
22 The remainder of that sentence remains the same, 23 " subject to possible unavailability due to illness or other 24 reason."
25 The next sentence, " driver testing sessions" (3
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1 remains as it is. Strike "have been scheduled with" and 2 substitute "were conducted by-the." " State Police" remains.
3 Strike "for" and substitute "on August 11." Strike "18 and 4 25th, 1986" and substitute "and 23 volunteers were issued 5 class 4 licenses."
6 Strike the next sentence, which reads, "Any 7 volunteers who are unable to complete training as 8 prescribed will be trained in a follow-up session beginning 9 August 25, 1986," and substitute, "49 volunteers are 10 scheduled for driver testing on August 18, 1986."
11 Strike the last sentence which reads, "A 12 follow-up testing session has been scheduled for September.
-( ) 13 8, 1986" and substitute, " Driver testing will continue into 14 September as classroom training is completed."
l 15 Now, if you would like, I will reread the 16 corrected paragraph.
17 JUDGE HOYT: I think we have it, Mr. Boyer --
18 JUDGE HARBOUR: I want to make sure I have it.
19 Would you do that, sir.
20 WITNESS BOYER: "The schedule for training and 21 testing is as follows: two groups totaling 54 volunteers 22 completed training August 8, 1986; two other groups 23 totaling 47 completed training on August 15, 1986; four 24 other groups totaling 66 will complete training in August 25 1986 and the remainder, totaling 33, will complete training (1)
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1 in September of 1986, subject to possible unavailability
-2 due to illness or other reason. Driver-testing sessions 3 were condu'cted by the State Police on August 11, 1986, and 4 23 volunteers were issued class 4 licenses. 49 volunteers 5 are scheduled for driver testing on August 18, 1986.
6 Driver testing will continue into September, as classroom 7 training is completed.
8 BY MR. CONNOR:
9 0 Mr. Boyer, is there a change in paragraph 13?
10 A (Boyer) Yes, there's one change in paragraph 13-11 on the next to the last-line. The sentence starts with, 12 "40 are regularly stationed." Substitute "55"'for "40."
() 13 Making the sentence read, "55 are regularly scheduled at 14 Berwyn, and therefore would be immediately available."
15 0 I think you said " scheduled" instead of
-16 " stationed" in that sentence?
17 A Correct is " stationed." "55 are regularly 18 stationed at Berwyn." Pardon me.
19 0 Are there any other changes or corrections to 20 the testimony?
21 A No.
22 0 To you and to Mr. Bradshaw, is your testimony 23 true as corrected?
24 A (Boyer) Yes.
25 A (Bradshaw) Yes.
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() 1 MR. CONNER: We would offer the testimony of the 2 ,
applicant in this proceeding and request it be bound 3 physically in the transcript at this point as if read.
4 JUDGE HOYT: Any objections? The transcript 5 will be -- the testimony on the remanded hearing on 6 availability of drivers for the Spring-Ford School. District, 7 testimony of panel Boyer and Bradshaw, as corrected by the 8 reporter from the transcribed notes, will be inserted in 9 the record at this point.
10 (The document'follows:)
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f 2301 Market Stroot ..
O August 4, 1986 7
FROM: R. A. Kankus
<- TO: Distr'ibution .
SUBJECTS, Volunteer Bus Driver Mobilization Times To prepare testimony due to the Atomic Safety Licensing ,
Board for Limerick Generating Station on August 11, 1986, coditional information regarding individual volunteer's mobilization times to the respective county staging areas is n0eded. The forms listing individuals for whom we need information is attached. Please complete these and return by telecopier (841-5163) by 2:00 p.m., August 4, 1986.
Et Additionally, volunteers should be scheduled to attend '!
physicals and classes in order of lowest response time priority. [
Volunteers who can respond in several minutes to Berwyn or Exxon i i services, Inc. (Lionville) are especially important to schedule o soon as possible.
If you have any questions, please contact me at X-5432 -
or Keith Ashley at X-6835.
kl Director k e? l Emergency Preparedness Section :
cca V. S. Boyer '
R. H. Logue E. J. Cullen RAK/cmb .
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Employing Officers Designee (s) -
G. C. Miller Stan Johnson [
District Superintendent - ,
. South District 8 1
b W. C. Detwiler Jerry McNally 1 Division Superintendent - Ralph Bozarth .
Main Line Division Bill Lutz E. L. Dold Donald Hoy General Superintendent -
Transportation Division f
A. S.'Uhler John Naugle Superintendent -
Delaware Division O W. P. Rohlfing Don Buchheim ;
District Superintendent - Eileen Beaver .:
North District W
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- 7tvices, Inc. in Lionville (north of Exton on Rt. 100) from 7:30 !
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O UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Before the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board In the Matter of )
)
Philadelphia Electric Company ) Docket Nos. 50-352
') 50-353 (Limerick Generating Station, )
Units 1 and 2) )
TESTIMONY RELATING TO REMAND HEARING ON AVAILABILITY OF BUS DRIVERS FOR OWEN J. ROBERTS AND SPRING-FORD SCHOOL DISTRICTS Panel - Vincent S. Boyer and Robert Bradshaw
- 1. This testimony pertains to the decision of the Atomic Safety and Licensing Appeal Board in Philadelphia Electric Company (Limerick Generating Station, Units 1 and
- 2) , ALAB-836, 23 NRC 479, 522 (1986), insofar as that decision required further findings by the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board on remand of " reasonable assurance of the availability of an adequate number of bus drivers to evacuate students in the Spring-Ford and Owen J. Roberts School Districts."
- 2. Plans to evacuate these two school districts are two aspects of the overall efforts by Commonwealth, county and local officials, as isted by licensee Philadelphia Electric Company (" Licensee") and its consultants, to maintain adequate emergency planning and preparedness for O the 'i ericx ce=er ti=9 steti = < 'i ericx-) -
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- 3. Since . the close of the record relating to the offsite emergency planning phase of the-proceeding, Licensee has continued to cooperate with- Commonwealth, county and local officials in developirg additional emergency response resources for all aspects of planning and preparedness.
These efforts have included the enlistment of' Licensee's empl'oyees who have stated a willingness to participate- as
- volunteers in implementing various aspects of the offsite plans.
- 4. Following the Appeal Board's remand as to whether an adequate
- number of drivers would be available for -the Spring-Ford and Owen J. Roberts School Districts, -the
. Licensee's representatives discussed how to resolve the h remanded issue with the responsible county and Commonwealth officials. At a meeting on June 5, 1986 with Licensee's c
representatives, Timothy R. S. Campbell, Director of the Chester County Department of Emergency Services, and A.
Lindley Bigelow, Coordinator of the Montgomery County Office of Emergency Preparedness, determined that an immediate
, solution would be for volunteer Licensee employees to qualify and act as drivers until the counties have obtained drivers from other sources. Mr. Campbell decided that the 1
designated marshalling center for volunteers to drive buses for Chester County would be in the Exton area at the Exxon Systems facility in Lionville. Mr. Bigelow decided that the designated marshalling center for Montgomery County would be i
t- the Licensee's Berwyn Transportation Center. The matter was i
l
_ - _ . . _ .- - . . _ _ - _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ , . _ . . . . ~ . .
then - discussed : with Ralph J.
] Hippert, Director of Plans' &
Preparedness, Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency, who agreed to the proposal as an immediate solution.
- 5. In Pennsylvania, a Class 4 driver's _ license is required for operation of a school bus. There are three prerequisites for obtaining a Pennsylvania Class 4 license:
(1) possession of a Class 4 learner's permit which requires passing a physical examination; (2) classroom' and vehicle training; and (3) passing a driver's examination administered by the State Police.
- 6. In order to determi,ne' the number of employees who potentially might wish to volunteer to drive school buses in
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the event of an emergency, Licensee then collated a list of volunteer employees -who could respond to bus marshalling centers within a reasonable period.
- 7. As a result of-its survey, Licensee determined, as of the time of its response to the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board on the remanded bus driver issue on June 16, 1986, that 570 of its employees in reasonable proximity to the marshalling centers have volunteered to take the steps necessary to obtain a Pennsylvania bus driver's license and to drive buses as may be necessary in the event requested by the Chester County Department of Emergency Services or the Montgomery County Office of Emergency Preparedness to implement their respective emergency plans.
- 8. Each volunteer was asked to execute a volunteer O sheet. The supervisors of the volunteers were asked to l
._4-estimate-how long it would take the. volunteers to reach:the
)
marshalling ~ centers based upon their - knowledge of .their personnel's work locations.
9 '. Based' upon Licensee's desire to resolve the remanded bus driver issue without the need for further
. hearings,. Licensee proposed by stipulation to make - the 570-identified employee volunteers available to Chester and Montgomery.- Counties as needed :under their plans.- After intervenor Limerick Ecology Action . rejected the proposed stipulation, however, Licensee began to prepare .for the hearing and conferred with the - Commonwealth, counties and-Federal Emergency Management Agency to reassess .the number -
of volunteers actually needed. Based- upon this reevaluation, the responsible planning agencies determined that a total.of 200 employee volunteers, to be used by.both Montgomery-and Chester County, would be more than sufficient to meet any anticipated need for the - Owen J. Roberts and Spring-Ford School Districts. -A list:of the names of.the remaining volunteer employees is being maintained on file sc that in the event they may be needed as replacements for l those already trained, they can be made available.
- 10. Licensee has coordinated its bus driver . employee efforts with the Chester Cou,nty Department of Emergency Services and the Montgomery County Office of Emergency Preparedness. Both counties have agreed to the program for r the use of Licensee's employee volunteers to receive driver O
l
4 training and ' respond in the event of a radiological
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emergency at Limerick.
- 11. Initially, training was provided by the Chester County Intermediate Unit, which is a regional governmental cooperative that provides services to local school districts. Licensee and vendor employees received training as instructors which qualifies them to teach other volunteers. Training of 21 instructors began July 15, 1986, and was completed July 23, 1986. Thereafter, these instructors will teach other volunteers in groups of approximately thirty. The State Police will then conduct Class 4 driver tests at Berwyn. The training of all volunteers will include the same training offered for O drivers for e11 schoo1 districts end schoot aus eroviders.
(See Appl. Exh. E-64, Training Module for Bus Drivers.)
- 12. The schedule for training and testing is as SH follows: two groups totaling aLvur-CO volunteers completed NS L ot 00-training August 8, 1986; two other groups totali h .w bw =nd th r m$6vps %lf om lete training M Au st 15 1986 w2-1 a m; s J W: +m x . nu& aining- by ?gn et 2' 1nd= %
l u e %*=te4ety- abous<^Ct wwili i. %complete -
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i to unavailaba.lity
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reason. Driver testing sessions ha,o cchedulc' V*bbg Q g,q t
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Lei.k h31986 the State Police fm Au ust 11- '? nf E Any ,
, M gtolunteers CN W.A 5c, Q u Q. ht M set h, M A 3 L SWd l gh : sra nnabla to_ 16{c trd M ng Ys vk k A!l*h W g pro _CribGd. Q 8 icir-beginning-Auhust--25, h bg bV t$_ air-d ir4s T D } w\ @ = =bs a
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- 13. Since the 200 volunteers could be used for either (v~}
Chester or Montgomery County, Licensee has developed estimates of the time required for the volunteers to report to both Exxon and Berwyn. Licensee has determined that 55 could reach Exxon in 30 minutes or less; an additional 111 within 30 to 60 minutes and 34 more within 60 to 90 minutes.
For Berwyn, 148 would be available in 30 minutes or less; an 27 within 30 to 60 minutes and 25 within 90 additiona(My Y -4;ws minutes. Ptrety g are regularly stationed at Berwyn and would therefore be immediately available.
- 14. Licensee has committed to Montgomery and Chester Counties that it will make its bus driver employee volun-teers available under the arrangements discussed above until
) provision is made by the responsibile planning authorities for bus driver personnel from other sources. Accordingly, Licensee's arrangements will remain in full force and effect until notification that Licensee's employee volunteers are
! no longer required.
- 15. In my capacity as an employee and officer of the Philadelphia Electric Company, I have had extensive experi-ence with our employees. I am confident that if an employee has stated that he will participate in an emergency response by driving a bus in the event that school evacuation is required, he will do so.
- 16. Based on the foregoing, there will be far more than enough volunteer bus drivers to provide support to the Chester County and Montgomery County emergency planning l
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agencies as needed for the Owen J.-Roberts and Spring-Ford School Districts in the event regularly assigned drivers fail to respond.
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the Matter of )
)
Philadelphia Electric Company ) Docket Nos. 50-352
) 50-353 (Limerick Generating Station, )
Units 1 and 2) )
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I hereby certify that copies of " Testimony Relating to Remand Hearing on Availability of Bus Drivers for Owen J.
Roberts and Spring-Ford School Districts" dated August' 8, 1986 in the captioned matter have been served upon the following by deposit in the United States mail this 8th day of August, 1986:
- Helen F. Hoyt, Esq. Atomic Safety and Licensing g-) Chairperson Appeal Panel
(_,, Atomic Safety and U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Licensing Board Commission U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Washington, D.C. 20555 Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 Docketing and Service Section
- Dr. Richard F. Cole U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Atomic Safety and Commission Licensing Board Washington, D.C. 20555 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
- Benjamin H. Vogler, Jr. Esq.
Washington, D.C. 20555 Counsel for NRC Staff Office of the General
- Dr. Jerry Harbour Counsel Atomic Safety and U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Licensing Board Commission U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Washington, D.C. 20555 Commission Washington, D.C. 20555
- Federal Express l
J fS Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel Angus Love, Esq.
107 East Main Street U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Norristown, PA 19401 Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 Robert J. Sugarman, Esq.
Sugarman, Denworth &
Philadelphia Electric Company Hellegers ATTN: Edward G. Bauer, Jr. 16th Floor, Center Plaza Vice President & 101 North Broad Street General Counsel Philadelphia, PA 19107 2301 Market Street Philadelphia, PA 19101 John L. Patten, Director Pennsylvania Emergency Mr. Frank R. Romano Management Agency 61 Forest Avenue Room B-151 Ambler, Pennsylvania 19002 Transportation and Safety Building Mr. Robert L. Anthony Harrisburg, PA 17120 Friends of the Earth in the Delaware Valley Kathryn S. Lewis, Esq.
106 Vernon Lane, Box 186 City of Philadelphia Moylan, PA 19065 Municipal Services Bldg.
15th and JFK Blvd.
- Charles W. Elliott, Esq. Philadelphia, PA 19107 325 N. 10th Street Easton, PA 18064 Spence W. Perry, Esq.
(*]- General Counsel
- Maureen Mulligan Federal Emergency Limerick Ecology Action Management Agency P.O. Box 761 500 C Street, S.W.
762 Queen Street Room 840 Pottstown, PA 19464 Washington, DC 20472 Mark L. Goodwin, Esq. Thomas Gerusky, Director Philadelphia Emergency Bureau of Radiation l Management Agency Protection
! P. O. Box 3321 Department of Environmental l Harrisburg, PA 17105-3321 Resources l 5th Floor l Jay M. Gutierrez, Esq. Fulton Bank Bldg.
l U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Third and Locust Streets
! Commission Harrisburg, PA 17120 631 Park Avenue King of Prussia, PA 19406 l
O
- Federal Express
/
9 gx James Wiggins _ William A. Welliver, Ed.D.
(_) Senior Resident Inspector Superintendent U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Spring-Ford Area School Commission District P.O. Box 47 199 Bechtel Road
'Sanatoga, PA 19464 Collegeville, PA 19426 Ralph Hippert Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency B151 - Transportation and Safety Building Harrisburg, PA 17120 Theodore G. Otto, Esq.
Department of Corrections Office of Chief Counsel P.O. Box 598 Lisburn Road Camp Hill, PA 17011 Timothy R.S. Campbell, Esq.
Director Department of Emergency Services 14 East Biddle S6reet
() West Chester, PA 19380 i A. Lindley Bigelow Coordinator of Emergency Preparedness Montgomery County i
'50 Eagleville Road Eagleville, PA 19403 l Roy C. Claypool, Ed.D.
District Superintendent Owen J. Roberts School District Administration Building R.D. 1 Pottstown, PA 19464 l
- /
Robert M. Rader
- Federal Express
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1 MR. CONNOR: The panel is now available for i
2 cross-examination.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Before you begin that examination, 4 let me make a couple of corrections that I should have made 5 earlier. We have new Staff counsel for the NRC here. Sir, 6 would you introduce yourself?
7 MR. VOGLER: Your Honor,-I'm Ben-Vogler, counsel 8 for the NRC Staff.
9 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you, Mr. Vogler. .Mr. Hirsch 10 is still with the FEMA, I take it?
11 MR. HIRSCH: Yes, your Honor.
12 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Goodwin has replaced Mr. Firkin
() 13 as far as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is concerned, 14 and Mr. Hippert is the other representative here.
15 The only LEA person not participating that has 16 normally, regularly been involved in this is Ms. Simpson 17 and Ms. Sullivan and Mr. Stone have replaced Ms. Simpson.
. 18 Very well.
19 MS. MULLIGAN: For the record, it's Mulligan.
20 JUDGE HOYT: I beg your pardon, Ms. Mulligan.
21 What did I say?
22 MS. MULLIGAN: Sullivan?
23 JUDGE HOYT: Well, it's Irish.
24 MS. MULLIGAN: I'll accept that.
l 25 JUDGE HOYT: I'm sorry, though.
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1 MS.-MULLIGAN: That's all right.
2 MR. STONE: May I begin?
3 JUDGE HOYT: Yes, please.
4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. STONE:
6 0 Just with reference to this paragraph 12 and the 7 various changes that have just been made by Mr. Boyer, you 8 just testified, then, that a training session -- actually a 9 testing session will be held today. Is that correct?
10 A (Boyer) Yes. '
11 0 Can we get the results of that session in the 12 next hearing so that we can be up to date on that?
(} 13 A Oh, yes. We may even have it by the end of 14 today. At least those who have taken the examination.
15 0 -Okay. Thank you.
16 I'm just going to ask the preliminary questions i 17 that we had wantad Mr. Boyer and Ms. Kankus for. Is it 18 correct -- and I'll ask both of you that your names are on 19 the volunteer survey forms -- that your PECO employees 20 returned forms volunteering to drive buses?
21 A Will you repeat that question? I don't get it.
22 If you are asking whether our names are on the forms, my 23 name is on the form and the forms are returned to my office 24 and directed to Ms. Kankus' office.
25 0 And Ms. Kankus, was your name also on the form?
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l 'A (Kankus) Yes, it was.
2 0 Thank you.
3 You had given us, this afternoon, a -- three 4 documents relating to_the solicitations of volunteers. Had 5 you not?
6 A (Boyer) Yes.
-7 0 Is there any other written material that you are 8 -aware of connected with the solicitation of these 9 volunteers or follow-up to their response?'
-10 A No. Most of it was done by telephone because of 11 the limited-time frame we had and the necessity to
- 12 communicate rapidly with these people. There were -- these
, ( )- 13 are the only documents that fit the request. There were 14 some to the medical department relating to physical exams, 15 but that did not fit the request.
16- 0 Did you personally have phone calls with the 17 various immediate supervisors of these employees?
18 A I have talked individually to some of the 19 supervisors and to a supervisor in the transmission and 20 distribution department, under which these people and the 21 supervisors who are listed report.
I 22 In addition, Ms. Kankus has had direct 23 communication with these people.
24 0 Do you recollect off the top of your head some 25 of these supervisors to whom you have spoken?
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1 LA Yes. They are listed in the second or third 2 page: Bill Welliver, is the one listed last; Ed Dold or 3 his representative, Bob Melvin, wh'o-is not listed there but-
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4 happens to report to Mr. Dold; Bill Detwiler,.and some 5 others who aren't listed here are the ones I specifically 6 spoke to.
7 0 Without asking about any specific conversation, 8 what was the essence of what you communicated to them in 9 your first contact following your notification that this 10 proceeding could possibly occur?
11 A It was mainly related to the scheduling. You 12 can appreciate that obtaining a number of people to go into
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13 classes for 2-1/2 days and then come back for -- to take a
[ 14 driver test the following week with the scheduling of our 15 normal work activities and with vacations in the summer 16 season, represented a difficult scheduling problem for the 17 company in each of thess divisions. So it was a method --
18 it was a conversation -- conversations were carried out 19 about the availability of people and scheduling them into 20 classes, so that we could get as many through the process 21 as possible by the end of August.
22 0 What was the reason that you as an officer of 23 the company gave that these volunteer bus drivers had to be 24 shifted and trained?
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( 25 MR. CONNER: I ooject to that, your Honor. It lO ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 - seems to me it's irrelevant. It was done. Why it was done 2' is irrelevant to any issue here.
3- JUDGE HOYT: We'll see where he's going with the 4 question. I'll overrule your objection. Proceed..
5 WITNESS BOYER: The hearing Board ordered --
6 whatever the number is --
7 JUDGE HOYT: 836.
8 WITNESS BOYER: Had indicated that there was a 9 question regarding the availability of bus drivers totaling a
10 53. We therefore instituted a prograra to obtain volunteers 11 from the company to take -- to fulfill the availability of 12 bus driver problem and so that's how we got involved in it.
() 13 BY MR. STONE:
14 0 Were you involved in the decision to reduce the 15 number of bus drivers you were offering from around 570.to 16 200?
17 A (Boyer) I initiated it.
18 0 What was your reason for it, sir?
19 A Well, the 570 was definitely an overkill. The 20 570 resulted from the number of responses we had obtained i-21 by a certain date and time when conversations were being 22 carried on and we were soliciting a stipulation from LEA to 23 resolve this matter. At that time we also felt that a 24 class 3 driver's license, which these trainees possessed,
- 25 for the most part, would be adequate, since the state of Lo l
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1 Pennsylvania rules and regulations say that a class 3 2 driver's license is adequate 1to drive a bus, school bus, if 3 the school bus sign is covered up and the_ fuse is-taken out 4 of the flasher light.
-5~ When, in conversation with the counties, it was 6 determined that they would -- they desired class 4 licenses 7 for people who would drive the bus, even in-this emergency, 8 and that it would be necessary-for us to process people to-9 obtain a class'4 license, we talked about a realistic 10 number of people, and in conversation with the county --
11 counties, Lin Bigelow and the other representatives, and 12 with the state, we determined that a ratio of 3:1 or-4:1 i 13 would be an adequate number. This came up to approximately
( [)
14 156 to 212, so I said how about 200? And they-agreed that 15 that was an adequate number.- We therefore settled on that 16 number.
17 0 In tnose discussions were there any other.
I i 18 concerns of the county that you either did or did not I.
j 19 address?
l 20 A No.
I f 21 MR. CONNER: Objection.
I
! 22 JUDGE HOYT: What's --
l i 23 MR. CONNOR: The witness already answered the 24 question.
l 25 MR. STONE: Your Honor, I meant to ask were l
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l~ there any other concerns of any other nature in those 2 discussions.
3 JUDGE HOYT: All right. You can answer that 4 question'.
5- WITNESS BOYER: No.
6 MR. STONE: Thank you.
7 BY MR. STONE:
8 0 With reference -- just at the end of this 9 paragraph 12 and the various changes -- are you concerned-10 at all that the number of drivers being trained by any 11 given date, that is likely to change?
12 A State that again?
. I( ,) . 13 0 Yes.
14 A Am I concerned that th6 numbers change?
15 0 Yes. For instance, the first change was from-60 16 volunteers having been anticipated to complete it to 54; 17 there's a second change from 60 to 47. And so forth. Is 18 that a concern to you?
19 MR. CONNER: We object to the form of the 20 question because it was misstated. His testimony was 21 prepared prior to any of the dates given in there.
22 Mr. Stone said 60, and the language in the original 23 testimony was "about 60" and "about 47" - "about 60" the 24 other time. The correction, of course, reflects what in 25 fact occurred.
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1 JUDGE HOYT: I think, Mr. Conner, your objection 2 is to the inartful way the question was asked rather than 3 any substantive objection. The objection-is overruled.
4 WITNESS BOYER: Absolutely not. With the-
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5 scheduling problems which I enumerated a few moments ago 6 . relative to scheduling people and carrying on cur company 7 business and scheduling it around vacations of the 8 individuals, all of which -- or some aspects of that, of 9 which -- were not know.; at the time we prepared th,e 10 testimony. So we distributed or allocated the number to be-11 trained fairly uniformly through the. training program. We .
12 expected to get all done by the end of August, originally.
()' 13 That has turned out to not quite be the case. We'll have 14 three quarters or more by the end of August, perhaps maybe*
15 up to 180. But we will have a few residuals who are on 16 vacation that can't receive their training and be examined 17 until the first week in September. So it's really just 18 taking into account the reality of the situation. There 19 are no marked changes in these numbers.
20 We have had, as of last week we had 101 people 21 go through the training course, which is more than half.
22 So we are well on our way. We have another 20-some this 23 morning in class. We'll have another 20-some additional 24 ones starting Wednesday.
25 So, by the end of this week we'll have another ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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\ l 1 45 or 50 through the training course.
2 Q Do you know when school starts at the 3 Spring-Ford School District?
4 A I would expect it would be around Labor Day but 5 I don't have the exact dates.
6 Q And it is your intent to have completed the 7 training and qualification of the 200 drivers by that point?
8 A We may not have the 200 by the 1st of September 9 or the 2nd of September. It may be by the first week in 10 September or even the second week in September, possibly.
11
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But we'll have an adequate number for the conditions.
12 Q Do you have a figure, you know, based on the
() 13 changes to date, do you have,a figure in mind as to who 14 will definitely be trained by the first week in September?
15 Trained and qualified?
16 A We'll have more.than a ratio of 3:1, which would 17 be 156, 159.
18 Q With respect to those drivers ho might fail the 19 State Police exam, do you have plans for them?
20 A Why, they cars retake.the examination. There 21 were two people failed the first examination and one didn't 22 come to an absolute complete stop at a stop sign. So he 23 will retake the exam.
24 O Ms. Kankus, I understand that you have been 25 involved with the receipt of these forms and I guess the
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h; I collation-and presentation in some form that the company 2 'can useLfor its planning l purposes; is that correct?
3 A' (Kankus) That's correct.
4 0 Can:I just ask how that physically is done?'-Do 5' you have'these names on a computer, for example?
6 A. Yes, we do.
~7' O Can I ask why-it was that in response-to our 8- request for these names we were provided with 200 of the 9 raw- forms -and not the computer. generated list, which -
10- certainly would have been more convenient for everyone 11 concerned.
12 MR. CONNER: Objection, your Honor. That1was -
13 what was agreed to in the conference call.
()~
.14 JUDGE HOYT: It seems to'me that's correct, l 15 Mr. Stone. We were talking about names, that was.the l 16' particular format that'was agreed to by Mr. Vogler. Do you l- 17 have any different recollection of that?-
l 18 MR. VOGLER: Staff recollects we-talked about i 19 the forms.
( 20 JUDGE HOYT: That's correct.
[
21 MR. VOGLER: And not the computer printout.
L l' 22 JUDGE HOYT: As a matter of fact, I think
[
23 computer-generated information is the first -- this morning i 24 is the first we have had that particular information 25 presented.
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- q l Mr. Stone, Ms. Mulligan participated in that 2 conference call. If you have any doubts about what was in 13 it, I think you should check with your representative first 4 -- with your co-representative.
5 MR. STONE: I do believe there was a specific 6 request in our filing of August 10, 1986, that concerns 7 subpoenas and scheduling, for certain materials.
8 JUDGE HOYT: Do you want to point out to'me 9 where?
10 MR. STONE: I don't believe the pages are
-11 paginated, but essentially the third page --
12 JUDGE HOYT: No, they are not.
/^T 13 MR. STONE: The second page of the Cobbler (f
14 letter; and, I guess back on the first page ---we just 15 requested the updated 200-name list including residence and 16 locations -- I'm reading here from number 2 --
17 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, you must read it in an 18 articulate enough manner that'the reporter can get it.
19 MR. STONE: The updated 200-name list including
.20 residents and work location of those workers that PECO now
! 21 maintains will be trained and available to drive school 22 buses by the start of school in September and, again,
[ 23 request 3 was the current list of PECO municipal volunteers, l
l 24 including volunteer fire and other emergency personnel.
25 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, the PECO municipal l
l (1
s 1
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- 2 personnel, is not the sameLlist.you1have-been given now'..
3 That is- an entirely different document. This particular L 4 -- list'of 200' names are for the bus driver volunteersfonly. i 5- MR. STONE:- If it please your Honor,,let'me back
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i' 6- .up1and maybe we can get past this.
'7 JUDGE:HOYT: It's your question. Do you want-to
- 8 withdraw the question?
9 MR. STONE: I withdraw the question, your Honor. ,
10 JUDGE HOYT: Very well,Llet's proceed, then.
t 11 BY-MR. STONE:
12 O Ms. Kankus, my purpose here:is,-do youLhave a
, j(][ 13' way of telling in your function, by comparing whatever lists
~
i 14 .you maintain'of--these:200 driver volunteers and any other 15 list you may maintain.of the municipal volunteers, of 16 whetherLor not the same people are being called upon to be 3
i 17 .doing double duty?
- _ 18 A (Kankus) Yes, we do. As the-forms came'in wo i'
19 reviewed them'against the present revisions of municipal 20 plans to determine whether anybody's name on our volunteer
- 21 lists was already on those lists.
I 22 O And is it your position, then, that any 23 municipal volunteer that PECO has had volunteer would be 24 listed in municipal plans? Or are there other municipal 25 volunteers that you have coordinated that would not be s_-
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\I l 'actually listed?
2 A The municipal volunteers that PECO has provided 3 '
che municipalities are' listed in the municipal plans.
4 0 And then do you have any way of telling, again
.5 from your records, you know, computer or-not, what workers 6 -may have other emergency responsibilities outside the 7 emergency planning zone? For example, volunteer firemen, 8 ambulance drivers or RCs.
9 MR. CONNER: We object to this as going beyond 10 the limited issues here. I don't see that it's relevant to 11 the individual's responding to a potential school 12 evacuation situation, if they have some general duties
- ()- 13 outside the EPZ. Apparently we are talking about some 14 second emergency or something like that. There's no 15 foundation for this question or assumption.
16 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Conner, are you saying that 17 these workers, these volunteer workers or these bus driver 18 volunteers may have PECO responsibilities for emergencies, 19 power lines being down.
20 MR. CONNER: They would obviously have PECO 21 responsibilities since they are all employees. But the 22 question seems to relate to some duplication of 23 commitment --
24 JUDGE HOYT: That's already been asked and 25 answered by Ms. Kankus. She says there are no other o)
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'l- municipal responsibilities. -That's all'there is,-isn't.
2 there?
3 MR. CONNER: That's why I was objecting._.This 4 'seems to.be. going off into some.other quaarant off 5 unrelated.---
6 JUDGE.HOYT: :Let me see_if we.canTdetermine, 7 with Mr. Stone, what:it is you are trying to get,-Mr. Stone.
[
8 MR.-STONE: Simply, your Honor, I'm concerned 1
9 that these 200 volunteers not be counted upon for any other 1
10 emergency services function, whether that 'be within-the EPZ
~
11 municipalities or,_and this is the question-I just asked --
12 outside of the emergency planning-zone, such as RCs.or
( 13- ambulance or volunteer fire.
p 14 Obviously if the applicant had that information, 15 that certain numbers of these volunteers --
16 JUDGE HOYT: Let's see if Ms. Kankus can answer 17 the-question. Do you understand what the point is,.
18 Ms. Kankus? If you do, maybe you better tell me also.
19 WITNESS KANKUS: I think I do. PECO does not 20 maintain in their employee files whether an employee 21 belongs to an RC or fire company. That's not something
! 22. -that you would keep in a company file, so we would have no 23 way of knowing through our files whether people have those ;
1 24 responsibilities. l l
i 25 Furthermore, since we are looking at these j fs 0J \
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V) 1 people providing bus driver services during the time that 2 school is in session, which'is also during the time at 3 which they are at work,-it is not PECO policy to release 4 people to fight fires in their home townships from their 5 jobs, short of them taking leave time. So we would not 6 necessarily consider that within our public files.
7 BY MR. STONE:
8 O And in a nuclear emergency, such as Limerick,
, 9 would these volunteer' firemen or ambulance drivers or 10 whoever have, according to your knowledge, any emergency-
- 11. function within the Limerick emergency plan.
-12 MR. CONNER: It has been asked and answered.
() 13 -JUDGE HOYT: Ju3t a moment. Ms. Kankus, would 14 you please bring this microphone closer to your face. We 15 are having a little problem up here,.trying to hear you. I
- 16. think it is simply because these mikes are, apparently, i
17 aimed at the room rather than towards us up here and we are 18 not hearing you very well. If you have the question -- let 19 me hear what your. objection is, Mr. Conner.
20 MR. CONNER: Merely pointed out that it had been 21 asked and answered.
22 JUDGE HOYT: Well, whatever value that 23 duplication will have, we are about to have it, then.
24 Answer the question.
25 WITNESS KANKUS: I think I need the question O
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1 specified. I'm not sure which bus drivers you are 2 referring to.
3 BY MR. STONE:
4 0 Let me get this as' clear as possible. You had 5 said that you had no records of whether or not any of these 6 200 drivers might have other volunteer obligations outside 7 the emergency planning zone, such as' volunteer fire 8 department or ambulance; is that correct?'
9 A (Kankus) That's correct.
10 0 And I believe that the point has just.been made 11 that, you know, in a regular emergency it is not com;; ny 12 policy to release individuals from work to fulfill those
() 13 regular volunteer obligations. Is that correct?
14 A That's correct. We would presume that those 15 fire companies or ambulances staff as if those people would 16 not be available.
17 0 And my question is, then, in a nuclear emergency 18 at Limerick, do you know whether those individuals who may 19 have these obligations would be counted upon by the 20 counties or state to fulfill emergency obligations outside 21 the emergency planning zone?
22 A I'm not --
23 JUDGE HOYT: Just a moment, Ms. Kankus.
24 MR. CONNER: I have two objections to that.
25 It's related to outside the emergency planning zone. I gs U
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1 don't understand how that'would worktin the context of'the
, 2 EPZ. And the witness has already answered.what the 3 . responsibilities would be within the EPZ.
4 JUDGE HOYT: Mr.' Stone, I think Mr. Conner's-
~5 objection may be a valid one, in that that has been asked 6 and answered, so far as records of the company are 7 maintained and the testimony of the witness has been, that 8 they-do not maintain that.
9 Also, the testimony is that those names -- that i
10- is,'the names of the volunteer bus drivers - do not also'
- 11 appear in any of the municipal plans, which are the 12 municipal plans for the radiological emergency at Limerick.
() 13 Now, what other consideration do you want'to 14 direct your question-toward? I'll ask'that you be as 15 specific as possible and let me hear the question. The 16 witness will hold the answer until we hear what it is that 17 Mr. Stone wants to inquire into.
L 18 MR. STONE: Would it be company policy to 19 release, you know, workers to fulfill volunteer obligations 20 other than driving a bus or other than municipal volunteer, 21 during nuclear emergency at Limerick?
22 WITNESS KANKUS: I think Mr. Boyer has that 23 better in terms of company policy.
24 MR. STONE: That will be fine.
l 25 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Boyer, can you answer that?
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1 WITNESS BOYER: Well, for those in the emergency 2 planning zone, I would expect that they would be released, 3 be able to be released, and we would recommend that the 4 supervisors give due consideration to releasing them.
5 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Boyer, I'm not certain whether 6 Mr. Stone's question may not leave a problem on the-record 7 here. That is not including, though, the 200 bus drivers 8 who have volunteered for specific school bus driver duty, 9 is it?
10 WITNESS BOYER: No. They are basically _-- many 11 -- the majority of them are outside the zone and would not 12 be involved. If they would be involved in their own
=() 13 locality and could potentially receive some call requesting 14 their support in an emergency, we would, again, give due 15 consideration to the release of that person depending on 16 the company conditions at the time.
17 However, the number that you are talking about l
18 that could potentially have any involvement like that could 19 be numbered on your hand and, in other words, five or less i
l 20 out of the 200 I would expect, and therefore is more than 21 adequately covered by the ratio of 4:1.
22 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Boyer, the reason it's so few 23 is because the selection of those names, if I recall some 24 of the testimony in this -- in some of the prefiled --
25 prehearing conferences that we've had, is that these O
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_1 drivers ~were: selected.from outside?~
2 WITNESS BOYER: The majority of..them are;from-3 .outside. Those inside are not presently. involved in any.
4 other-duties. .Those'that'are outside, our past history.
5 indicates'that there have been'no-calls or -- I'm not aware -
6 of any calls that have been received-for any' specific- ,
7 ' people in emergencies outside.
8 JUDGE.HOYT:- All'right. 'Thank you.
- 9 BY MR.-STONE:
10 0 Mr. Boyer,.in all sincerity, wouldn't it.be at 11 least a good idea to find out from these individuals i
12 ; -whether. or not they were being counted upon for some other_
13 emergency planning role, and include that in your. planning:
l-
[([
! 14 here.
15 MR. CONNER: We object to the question. It's
, . 1 15 argumentative and assumes that this isn't already.being 17 done, which it may be.
I' 18 JUDGE HOYT: Overruled, Mr. Conner.
L 19 WITNESS BRADSHAW: If I may speak-to Mr. Stone's 20 question?
! 21 MR. STONE: I would like Mr. Boyer to answer 22 first and then if you want to add something --
23 WITNESS BRADSHAW: Mr. Boyer will answer that 1
j 24 question since he has been involved in the training program 25 and covered that matter in the training sessions.
([1 L
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h27874;0 -21209 LBRT:
e LOi 1: ' WITNESS BOYER: To the extent volunteer names-2' - appear in plans we have--reviewed.those plans,-against-
- 3 Philadelphia. Electric's~ list.to make~sure there'are'no 4 ' conflicts in-responsibilities.- In addition,Ein the-5- training the bus' drivers'are going through,.we~givecan 6 overview.and discuss various off-site responsibilities.with, 7 them. To this date with over -- a little overE 100 people-
- 8~ going through, w e haveLnot encountered one student in-those 9 classes who has-had another responsibility.
10 To speak to.your question of apparent 1y' 11 simultaneous emergencies, Philadelphia Electric's providing 12 these volunteers, to the extent'that there are simultaneous
'( ) 13' emergencies, that would be an operational decision by the 14 counties and municipalities involved, perhaps involving
- 15 mutual aid assistance.
16 BY MR. STONE:
17 0 Again, again, Mr. Bradshaw, since'I haven't 18 -asked you, do you have any records or knowledge of which of -
- 19 these bus driver volunteers may be regular volunteer i
20 firemen or emergency ambulance personnel or other Red Cross f.
21 volunteers or something in their private lives, separate l
22 from --
e
! 23 A (Bradshaw) To the extent that those names on I
24 those lists are available, we have reviewed them and found l
- 25 two or three names in the list of 570 that had overlapping lO L
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1 : responsibilities. They were eliminated from the list of 2 200.
3 0 And, again, just to be' clear now, these 4 overlapping responsibilities were-with respect to the 5 municipal plans that -- for emergency planning rone?
- 6. A- In the instances that we discovered that-7 overlapped, it was in municipal plans, yes.
8 0 So is it fair to say that your response doesn't 9 indicate that you have found overlapping-responsibilities 10 with just regular volunteer firemen, ambulance personnel or 11 medical volunteers?
12 A To the extent that information is available to
')
( 13 14 us, we have not discovered such.
0 Do you have that information for each of these 15 200 volunteers?
16 A obviously not for the entire list, no.
17 0 Do you have it for any of the 200 volunteers?
L 18 A As I said, we discussed this with these 11 9 particular individuals in the training program and have not 20 found a problem with that.
21 0 Did you ask the question if they were volunteer l
l 22 firemen or ambulance drivers or Red Cross personnel?
23 A Yes. It is discussed.
24 0 Did you ask the specific question?
25 A Yes.
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1- MR. CONNER: .I object. EThis is' badgering the-2 witness and grinding the same stuff over and over.
3 JUDGE HOYT: ~ It's coming very close to it, 4 Mr. Stone. I'm going to overrule your question and sustain 5 the objection, and I ask'you to move into the next area. .I 6 think the same question has been answered.at least-three 7 times to my knowledge.
8 MR. STONE: Okay.
9 BY MR. STONE:
10 0 One other area, then, a related area here. With 11 respect to any emergency function that these people would 12 do during a Philadelphia Electric emergency, you-know,
() 13 power outages, gas problems or so forth, have you-worked 14 out a way that these employees would not be kept from-15 performing a volunteer bus driver duty?
16 A (Boyer) Well, that's really why you have 200, 17 for the need of 53. If there was a local emergency such as 18 a storm in one area at the time this call came in, there 19 could be five, 10, or 15 people that you would want to 20 delay or would not be able to respond immediately. But we 21 feel that we have adequate numbers to fulfill the 22 requirements.
23 0 With respect, then, to your prefiled written 24 testimony, I would like to know, in reference to paragraph 25 7 on page 3, if, when you solicited the original 570 n
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l employees, did you get any refusals to-volunteer?
2 :A Well, people that didn't volunteer would not 3 have filled a form, but lir. Bradshaw says in talking with 4 the supervisors there were some indication.that-people 5 didn't want to volunteer.
6 I've talked with some of those -- some other-7 people, not that -- the ones in.the early-group, but they 8 had some concern about the timing of the training program, 9 whether the case was that we needed to complete the 10 training program by September 1st, and some of them wanted 11 to take vacation and wouldn't be able to do it, so they 4 12 said they were going to withdraw from the program.
13 Another one I heard, that they were going to be
[v' )
14 required to evacuate Graterford prisoners and we 15 straightened that out and said that wasn't a requirement.
. 16 So there were some personal reasons why people either might 17 not have volunteered or been concerned about the volunteer 18 program.
19 But we have a full 200 and we have many more 20 waiting to get on the list if we need them. We plan on 21 continuing our program until we get to about 220, so that 22 we will have a reserve available to fill in as people get 23 transferred or retire or something like that.
24 0 Mr. Bradshaw, with respect to the total list of 25 570, had those additional 370 or so individuals, you know, l
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l been checked out insofar as, first'of all, conflicting 2 emergency responsibilities within the emergency-plan.
.3 MR. CONNER: I would object to that as 4 ' irrelevant. We are dealing with 200 and whether it is or 5 isn't checked out has nothing to do with this.
6 JUDGE HOYT: I'll sustain that objection, 7 Mr. Stone. We have moved beyond the point where the 570 8 list is in the operation.
9 MR. STONE: Our only argument there would be, 10 your Honor, insofar as they are relying-upon this 370 as 11 some sort of a reserve pool, it makes it less necessary to l
12 worry about any individual driver in the 200 list, which
() 13 just came up in Mr. Boyer's answer. I just wanted'to 14 clarify what had been done.
15 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, there is no testimony 16 about the 370 -- your question has been objected to and the 17 objection has been sustained.
18 BY MR. STONE:
19 0 I'll ask anybody on the panel who knows, in 20 selecting this initial 200-name list, was any attempt made 21 to prioritize those individuals who work in proximity to 22 either the Berwyn or the Lionville, Marshland Center?
23 A (Boyer) Yes.
24 0 Can I ask anybody who knows, how was that done?
l 25 A Well, we selected as many volunteers as a
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I reasonable from Berwyn, since these people would be right 2 there. That is.why the change was made, on page 6, where
-3 the number went from 40 to 55, are regularly stationed at.
4 Berwyn.
5- 0 And then with respect -- again I'll ask anyone-6 who knows --'with respect, then, to the other'370
.7 individuals, is it fair to say that many of them work at 8 another location rather than Berwyn or --
9 MR. CONNOR: Objection.- Irrelevant.
10 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, I believe-they are 11 testifying that that 370 no longer was a consideration.
12 That they had been excluded for some other. reasons, too. I
() 13 can't recall exactly the terminology.
14 The objection is sustained, Mr. Stone.
15 BY MR. STONE:
(
16 0- With respect to the times indicated in paragraph 17 13 on page 6, is it -- and I'll ask Mr. Boyer -- is it your 18 position that those volunteers who would have to travel 90 19 minutes or 60 to 90 minutes to reach this area would still 20 be adequate to protect the schoolchildren they might have 21 to transport?
22 A (Boyer) Yes. We feel that is a limited time in 23 which it would be desirable to get the drivers available.
24 0 Specifically referring to those drivers that 25 might fall in the category of 60 to 90 minutes, as you have O
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.1 them indicated here, do you feel that is an adequate time 2 ' frame that would still allow them to. respond promptly to 3 drive these schoolchildren, should they have to?
4 A Well,-they would be-able to take care of the 5' last buses. You would note that there are only five of 6 those 200 that are in that time zone.
- 7. O A little farther up though, for Exxon, doesn't-8 it say, paragraph 13, that there are 34 --
9 A 34 to Exxon, yes.
10 0 Now, what provisions have you made to get'these 11 drivers to an actual bus, then, at that point. Once they 12 have arrived at the Marshland Center, what do you plan on
() 13 happening next?
14 A This would1be coordinated with the county _
15 planners to transport the people from Berwyn or Exxon to 16 the desired location where the school buses are.
- 17 O_ In that planning, as far as you know, has any 18 consideration been made of-the possibility that these 19 drivers who would normally have these buses may have them 20 at their homes or place of work? Mr. Boyer and then 21 Mr. Bradshaw.
22 A He's more familiar with the details of that.
l l
23 0 Okay. Mr. Bradshaw?
24 A (Bradshaw) Yes, this has been discussed with the 25 counties. It is not the case that bus drivers take buses L(2) t i
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27874.0 21216 BRT p) i 1 home. In Owen J. Roberts we are aware that some drivers 2 take them home. At this time we are responding to a need 3 for drivers, not buses, from Owen J. Roberts. We were 4 assuming that Mr. Claypooloor Dr. Claypool is taking this
- 5. into consideration. We are providing drivers to Exxon and 6 then it will be an operational matter for Mr. Campbell to 7 arrange for the buses.
8 0 Do you agree with Mr. Boyer that as far as you 9 are concerned, as far as the company is concerned, your 10 offer of assistance and your responsibility would then end 11 when these bus drivers reach the Marshland -- Exxon or 12 Berwyn? Again, I was asking Mr. Boyer.
I)
V 13 MR. CONNER: I object to that question as being 14 somewhat unintelligible as to what responsibility ends? I 15 don't know that the -- if the witness understands he can
, 16 answer. I certainly do not.
17 JUDGE HOYT: Let's see if he can answer the 18 question. Which witness is going to answer?
19 MR. STONE: Mr. Boyer, as a matter of company 20 policy and is proposing this solution --
21 WITNESS BOYER: Well, Mr. Bradshaw has had more 22 conversation with the counties regarding this detail, and I 23 would suggest he answer it.
24 BY MR. STONE:
25 0 I believe he did. But, again, with respect to O
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%/ 'l company policy, would you-have any objection to.the company 2 making sure that this next stage of these bus volunteers
'3 . performing their role be done?
4 A (Kankus) vest are provided I as county 5 management workers. If the county requested us to get the 6 county to help them get to the staging areas, I'm sure we 7 would accommodate them, but there are county emergency 8 managers. We-are providing'them in that-capacity.
9 0 Mr. Boyer, do you agree with that?
10 A Yes.
11 MR. STONE: I believe that's all, your Honor.
12 JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Mr. Goodwin, do you 13 have any questions?
-v(')
14 MR. GOODWIN: Just a few' questions,'your Honor.
15 JUDGE HOYT: Very well, please. proceed.
16 CROSS-EXAMINATION
-17 BY MR. GOODWIN:
18 0 Mr. Boyer, do you feel confident that by the end 19 of September 1986 that you will have a full pool of 200 20 drivers to be available to be used by the counties?
H21 A (Boyer) Absolutely. Even before then. By 22 mid-September.
23 0 Have you, in your discussions with your 24 volunteers, come up with any time span or period that they 25 would be volunteers? Say they volunteered for two, three, (2)
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1 1 four years, six months, anything like that?
2 A No, the understanding is they volunteer until 3 there is some other mechanism provided to relieve the need 4 for them, which may or-may not occur.
5 O So, is it your answer, then, that basically it's 6 an indefinite period?
7 A That would be the best way to describe it, yes.
8 O Are your volunteers aware that there are certain 9 requirements in receiving this class 4 license that they 10 have it renewed periodically and that they take physicals 11 periodically?
12 A Yes.
~s_-
(~') 13 0 Have they all agreed that they will do this when 14 the time comes up?
15 A None have indicated that they would not. I 16 can't specifically state whether that -- maybe Mr. Bradshaw 17 can, whether the question was put that way to them. It was 18 -- they were informed that there was a requirement for 19 renewal of physicals periodically, and I even mentioned 20 that when I talked with them and I have addressed every 21 class at the start of the class, with the 120 that have 22 gone through so far, and got no questions with regard to 23 that.
24 0 Let me just ask a similar question to 25 Mr. Bradshaw, then, maybe.
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'l I'm particularly interested in knowing whether 2 or not you have talked to the volunteers and made 'them 3 ' aware of the requirement that every four years they!have to 4 retake the basic examination, which is a total of 10 hours1.157407e-4 days <br />0.00278 hours <br />1.653439e-5 weeks <br />3.805e-6 months <br />, 5 altogethar. Are they aware of this?
6 A (Bradshaw) I can't unequivocally say that that 7 is specifically discussed, although the requirements of a 8 class 4 license were discussed, I'm not sure they went into 9 maintenance of that. I would add, though that Philadelphia 10 Electric has committed to maintaining a list of 200 people.
11 So if for some reason someone became ineligible from that 12 list, the company has committed to make drivers available 13 from the remaining volunteers to maintain a 200 number.
( })
14 O Right. I understand that. But my question was 15 more to the basic knowledge that these volunteers have at 16 the start of where they actually get into the training, 17 that they would have to go through the basic testing over 18 again in four years?
19 A (Boyer) Well, I saw some material, training 20 material on the desk there this morning that had the 21 requirements for a class 4 license, and I remember seeing 22 something about requalification. This is distributed to 23 each of the drivers, and I specifically mentioned in the --
24 in my presentation to them that there was a requirement for 25 reexamination at some periodic basis. I didn't realize O
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- /7 1- whether it was three years or four years, but something 2 like that, and had no concern raised by.any of the-3 employees.
4 :0 You had mentioned, Mr. Boyer, you intend to keep 5 a' reserve of about 20' volunteers in hand in case some of 6 the present 200 would-leave or retire or be~ transferred.
7 Would you intend to continue updating that 8 reserve, too, if need be?
9 A Yes. I would say we would fluctuate the total 10 number somewhere between 205 and 220. If we get down to 11 205, we'll go out and solicit some more and train some more 12 so we have assurance that we are always~ going to have 20G.
() 13 0 Mr. Boyer, I would like to draw your attention 14 to paragraph 14 in your prefiled testimony. I'llEjust give 15 you a second to read it and then I have one question about 16 that paragraph.
17 A Right.
18 0 In that paragraph you basically state that you 19 intend to keep these bus driver volunteers available for e
- 20 county use as long 23 it is needed. What I'm interested in i
21 is, if you could give me a little more explanation as to 22 what was meant by the second half of the first sentence, 23 which -- in which you said: "The arrangements discussed 24 above will be remaining in effect until provision is made 25 by the responsible planning authorities for bus driver 1
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l' personnel from other sources."
2 :Could you explain.that?
3 A Yes.- There has been some indication from FEMA',
4 .I believe, andifrom others, that this isia temporary 1 5 arrangement, t. hat theyfexpect, for the lonc term they-6 expect'other-arrangements'to be worked out. That is what I 7 'was referring ,there. That this,.at this point Lin time, 8 is not expected to be the permanent 40-year solution.
9 However, in discussing this with the men I said:
10 This will be in effect until something else takes its place, 11 whether it's soon or never.remaias to be seen.
12 0 And as of right now, this date-here, today, you-
- () 13 are not' aware of any other planning going on in particular 14 at the county level to handle this situation?
15 A I can't respond to that. I'm not aware of any.
16 0 Mr. Bradshaw?
17 A (Bradshaw).Yes. I can respond to that. In 18 addition to some of the options that were discussed in 19 Mr. Hippert's testimony, we hava talked-with Mr. Campbell 20 about the possibility of searching additional potential i 21 sources of drivers, such as fire company personnel not i
22 otherwise tasked in the plans who would have afclass 3 or 23 class 4 license.
24 0 So it's your understanding in discussions with 25 the counties that they do plan to initiate some action and
()
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(_)_ 1 try to do a survey or come up with some sort of method that 2 may be able to come up'with an-alternate source of bus 3 drivers?
4 A That's correct.
5 ' MR. GOODWIN: No1other questions, your Honor.
6 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Hirsch?
7 MR. HIRSCH: I have no questions, your Honor.
8 JUDGE HOYT: Staff?
9 MR. VOGLER: Your Honor, the Staff has no 10 questions.
11 EXAMINATION 12 BY JUDGE COLE:
.( 13 0 Just one or two questions, gentlemen.
14 I believe, Mr. Bradshaw, you made reference to 15 'the Custard Bus Company and that the buses are not taken to 16 the homes of the drivers; is that correct, sir? ,
17 A (Bradshaw) That's correct.
18 0 Where are the buses kept?
19 A At their two terminals.
20 0 And I take it that is not the case for the Gross 21 Bus Company; is that correct, sir?
22 A That's correct.
23 O Do you happen to know what fraction of the buses 24 are taken home or are they all taken home?
25 A I don't have the exact number, but based on some O
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27874.0 21223 BRT lm, l 1 previous-discussions my staff has-had with their i 2 transportation people and this data maybe a year or two old, 3 it's.approximately, or can be up to'30 of-the 43. buses.
4 0 All right, sir. Do you have-any-knowledge of --
5 as to how come Campbell is going to address-this 6 operational matter? This might be a better question to ask 7 directly to.Mr. Campbell, but do you have any knowledge of 8 how that problem is going to be resolved?
9 A No, I do not.
10 JUDGE COLE: All right. I'll just save that 11 question for Mr. Campbell. Thank you.
12 ~ JUDGE HOYT: Give me one moment, please.
(~y 13 EXAMINATION
\~J 14 BY JUDGE HOYT:
15 0- Just one brief question. Mr. Boyer, who will 16 maintain the list and be responsible for the updating of it, 17 from time to time? And by "the list," I'm speaking of the 18 volunteer bus drivers?
19 A (Bo'rer) Our emergancy planning division under 20 Roberta Kankus would maintain that list and would initiate 21 actions to ottain additional drivers when the number 22 dropped down to 105 and so forth.
23 0 Ms. Kankus, let me ask you. Do you have any 24 idea of how you would conduct your periodic reviews, and if 25 so, what would be the frequency of those periodic reviews O
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.Q' 1 of the bus volunteer transportation lists?
2 A (Kankus) We'd do it in a manner similar.in-which 3 we use for on-site emergency planning' workers now, which is 4 my stiff routinely maintains the list, .goes out and makes 3 phone calls to check with employment officers and to check 6 with workers, whether they continue to be available in 7 their capacity. We have not established a frequency at 8 this point, but normally volunteer lists for off-site 9 emergency plans are updated on an annual basis. We would 10 probably do it in that cycle.
11 0 Will you be plugged in to the personnel 12 department of Philadelphia Electric in order to determine
() 13 when someone dies, retires or otherwise leaves the 14 employment of the company?
15 A Yes.
16 0 You will be advised of that?
17 A We are presently plugged into that in putting 18 together this whole list.
19 0 I have one question of you, Mr. Bradshaw, and I 20 can't find the reference in the prefiled testimony, so let 21 ne see if I can take it off the top of my head. I might 22 have an inartful recollection, and then perhaps you can 23 clear it up for me.
24 These bus drivers that are assigned to each of 25 the individual buses by the two companies involved, assign O
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l these buses to the drivers,'do'they not?
2 A (Bradshaw) I.really don't -- to the best of my 3 knowledge I'm not aware of specific bus assignments.
4 0 Then how is it that these buses get.taken home 5 from time to time? Is that some sort of. prearrangement 6 . with the company?
7 A Between the driver and school district. I
.8 believe it goes to the logistics of the bus driver's 9 residence and its. proximity to his assignment. It may be 10 more convenient for him to take it home rather.than bring 11 it back to the garage.
12 0 I see. Then you have these drivers dropping
() 13 these buses at some known point? Or is this an unknown 14 point? Or is it predetermined where it is they may take 15 that bus to? For example, their own home.
16 A It is a predetermined arrangement between the 17 driver and the transportation coordinator for the school 18 district.
- 19 0 Well ar- these buses owned by the school 20 district or owned by the company?
21 A They are leased by the school district from the 22 Gross Bus Company.
23 0 Are the drivers company employees or bus company 24 employees or are they employees of the school district?
25 A That I don't know.
A U
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/3-() 1 O Who would know that?
2 A Dr. Claypool.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Thank you.
4 EXAMINATION 5 BY JUDGE COLE:
6 O Just one question I forgot to ask. How will you 7 communicate with these volunteer drivers when an emergency 8 arises to advise them that they should begin their duties?
9 A (Boyer) From Limerick, where the determination 10 of the classification of the event would initiate, the 11 information would be transmitted to our system operator, a 12 post which is manned 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day.
13 He would communicate to the counties the need 14 for the bus drivers and would communicate to the 15 supervisors, through a call list, of the volunteers. The 16 supervisors in each area would have a list of the 17 volunteers. They would then, by radio communication,,
18 contact the crews or, if it happened to be assigned to .a 19 crew which did not have a radio, would dispatch a vehicle 20 to obtain the volunteer and bring him back to Berwyn.
21 In radio dispatch, the vehicles would be 22 directed to proceed to Berwyn, in other words in the most 23 expeditious manner, and the time estimates which these 24 supervisors made take all this into account. In other 25 words, the supervisors of the volunteers made the time O
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27874.0 21227 BRT 1 estimates to get the people to Berwyn. So they are 2 realistic time estimates.
3 0 All right, sir. How about the Exxon location, 4 the same situation?
5 A Yes. They would be directed to either Berwyn or 6 Exxon. Some are a little longer since some might come to 7 Berwyn and be transported to Exxon.
8 JUDGE COLE: All right, sir, thank you.
9 EXAMINATION 10 BY JUDGE HOYT:
11 0 Mr. Boyer, I think we are all very realistic 12 here, once a solution is apparently selected it works. It 13 may have been labeled temporary, but by usage and time it 14 becomes very, very permanent. Are you prepared to assume 15 that responsibility, that is PECO or Philadelphia Electric, 16 prepared to assume that responsibility ad infinitum?
l 17 A (Boyer) Absolutely.
18 JUDGE HOYT: Do you have any redirect, 19 Mr. Conner? We did it a little differently this time, in 20 that we asked our questions from the bench. However, if 21 you wish to have any redirect, you certainly may, 22 MR. CONNER: The new approach is very efficient.
I 23 We have no questions.
- 24 JUDGE HOYT
- Very well, is there any necessity 25 of this panel being retained? Does anyone object to their i
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27874.0 21228 BRT 1 being dismissed. It doesn't mean you have to leave us, but 2 the panel is excused.
3 WITNESS BOYER: Thank you.
c 4 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you, Mr. Boyer, Mr. Bradshaw, i
5 Ms. Kankus.
6 He will recess for annroximately 10 minutes.
t 7 (Witnesses excused.)
8 (Recess.)
9 Whereupon, 10 LINDLEY BIGELOW 11 and 12 TIMOTHY R.S. CAMPBELL 13 were resumed as witnesses and, having been previously 14 sworn, were examined and testified as follows:
15 JUDGE HOYT: The hearing will come to order, and 16 all parties to the hearing who were present when the 17 hearing recessed are again present. Mr. Conner.
18 MR. CONNER: I would like Mr. Campbell and-i
- 19 Mr. Bigelow.
i
- 20 JUDGE HOYT
- Mr. Conner, I wonder if in the l 21 presentation ot these witnesses it would not be better to 22 take each of the testimony by county, complete that before 23 you go on to the next county. Where there is an overlap l
24 there, it would have to be up for grabs, whichever is the l
25 appropriate party.
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27874.0 21229 BRT k- 1 MR. CONNER: Very well. The questions are the 2 same.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Welcome, gentlemen. I would remind 4 you that you had taken an oath here in the hearings a 5 substantial time ago, however, you are still under that 6 oath. You will recall that you did take it.
7 All right, Mr. Conner, if you'll proceed, please.
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. CONNOR:
10 0 Mr. Campbell, are you the same Timothy R.
11 Campbell, Emergency Services, County of Chester, who 12 testified previously in this proceeding on January 23 and
, 13 24, 1985?
14 A (Campbell) Yes, I am.
15 0 And your qualifications are already in the 16 record?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 Mr. Campbell, are you familiar with the document 19 we have referred to in this hearing as ALAB-836, the i 20 decision by the Appeal Board of the Nuclear Regulatory 21 Commission dated May 7, 1986?
, 22 A Yes, I am.
I 23 0 As a result of this decision, have you had l, 24 occasion to meet with representatives of the Philadelphia 25 Electric Company and Pennsylvania Emergency Management l CE) 1 i
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i 27874.0 21230 BRT O 1 Agency, as to the provision for drivers for the Spring-Ford 2 and Owen J. Roberts School Districts?
3 A I met on a number of occasions with 4 representatives of electric company consultants in 5 Montgomery County. I had telephone conversations with 6 representatives of the Pennsylvania Emergency Management.
7 0 With regard to the remanded issues, can you 8 state the result of these meetings?
9 A Yes. After discussion with Philadelphia 10 Electric Company, they volunteered to create a pool of 11 drivers to be made available by the company for use within 12 the counties as emergency management volunteers, both in
() 13 Limerick and non-Limerick-related emergencies. These 14 drivers were to be trained as and certified as Pennsylvania 15 class school bus-qualified drivers, and the company offered 1
16 to act as coordinator for the mobilization of those 17 employees.
18 O Are you familiar with the testimony of 19 Mr. Vincent S. Boyer and Robert Bradshaw, provided in 20 written form to this proceeding, and the questions that
! 21 they responded to in the hearing room this morning?
22 A I was present in the hearing room this morning.
23 I briefly reviewed the testimony when I received it from 24 the service list.
- 25 0 Are you satisfied with the solution proposed by
)
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i 3 A Provided they follow through with what they have 4 committed to.
5 JUDGE HARBOUR: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear the 6 answer?
7 WITNESS CAMPBELL: Provided they follow through i 8 with what they committed to perform.
9 BY MR. CONNOR:
10 0 Did you discuss the solution with PEMA?
11 A Yes, I had a number of conversations with 12 Mr. Ralph Terry.
(} .13 0 ,
Mr. Bigelow, are you the same Lindley Bigelow,
! 14 Director of Emergency Preparedness for Montgomery County 15 who testified previously in this proceeding on December 3 16 and 4, 1984?
17 A (Campbell) Yes, sir, I am.
18 0 Are you familiar with the document we referred 19 to as ALAB-836, as far as the remanded issues on bus driver 20 availability is concerned?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 And as a result of this decision on this i 23 remanded issue, have you had occasion to meet with 24 representatives of the Philadelphia Electric Company and 25 PEMA?
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- A 27874.0 21232 BRT O 1 A Sir, we met with the utility, the consultants 2 -and the other county coordinator. I have also had 3 conversations with people from PEMA.
- 4 0 By "the other county coordinator" you mean 5 Mr. Campbell?
6 A That's correct.
7- 0 Would you state briefly what the result of these 8 meetings were, in the context of the remanded issue?
9 A Well, similar to the statement made just now by 10 Mr. Campbell, and that is, the utility said they would get l 11 volunteers. They came up with a number of. individuals who 12 would be willing as volunteers to drive the buses and then
() 13 they went further than that to bring them down into the 14 training category so they would become fully qualified 15 drivers with class 4 Pennsylvania licenses and go through 16 the annual physical requirement of that licensing program.
f 17 0 Did you discuss -- you have heard and seen the 18 testimony given by the Philadelphia Electric Company in i
19 this proceeding on this issue?
l 20 A Yes, sir.
j 21 0 Are you satisfied with the solution proposed 22 therein?
23 A- Yes, sir.
t 24 0 Have you discussed the solution with PEMA?
25 A I have had conversations with PEMA over the (2)
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27874.0 21233 BRT 1 telephone; yes, sir.
2 MR. CONNER: We have no further questions and 3 .would tender the gentlemen for cross.
1 4 JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Mr.-Stone, or i
5 Ms. Mulligan, whoever is doing the cross-examination for LEA.
6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. STONE:
- 8 0 Mr. Campbell, we heard testimony this afternoon i 9 about the potential problem in these PECO volunteers i 10 reaching the 30 or so buses that Owen J. Roberts bus 11 drivers apparently routinely take home with them. Have you 12 heard that testimony?
() 13 MR. CONNER: We object to the form of this 14 question which relates to buses as distinguished from 15 drivers, and do not believe that is within the scope of the 16 remanded issue and therefore irrelevant to this proceeding.
17 JUDGE HOYT: Well, doesn't he talk about the i
18 buses being taken home by the drivers?
19 MR. CONNER: Not volunteer drivers. He's 20 apparently talking about the drivers employed by the Gross 21 Bus Company?
l 22 JUDGE HOYT: Do you want to distinguish between l 23 the bus drivers assigned by the company -- I think, i
24 Mr. Stone, Mr. Conner's objection went to the fact that we l
i 25 have two classes of drivers here and he just wanted to
()
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27874.0 21234
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1 distinguish.
2 BY MR._CONNOR:
3 0 With respect, then, to the 30 buses, apparently i
i 4 routinely taken home by the regular school district bus 5 drivers, my question goes to: Do you have any concerns 6 about how the PECO volunteer bus drivers who have reported
$ 7 to a staging area would reach their buses?
8 MR. CONNER: Your Honor, we seriously object to l 9 this. We see it as an effort to enlarge the issues.
l 10 The remanded issue deals only with making up the 11 indicated lack of drivers. Not of buses.
12 JUDGE HOYT I understand the objection, l
4-() 13 Mr. Conner. Mr. Stone, you have really got two things you 14 have got into your question there. The drivers that take f 15 those buses home are the assigned drivers. Testimony here
! 16 has been from the PECO panel that they intended to take 17 their bus drivers to a specific location, one for each of j 18 the two counties that's involved.
19 Now, I'm not quite sure whether you are trying l.
20 to make -- where you are trying to hook them up together j 21 but I think there is a confusion there that I think really
) 22 makes it an unanswerable question. So, try it again, if 23 you will.
24 BY MR. STONE:
1 25 0 Mr. Campbell, what plans do you have, then, for
()
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-27874.0 21235 BRT 1 ensuring that the PECO volunteer bus drivers reach the 2 buses of the Owen J. Roberts School District which 3 apparently are routinely taken home by.the normal school 4 district bus drivers?
5 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, I have to 6 object on two grounds. The same one, that this remanded 7 issue does not deal with the availability of buses. I also 8 object to the premise that if there were an unmet need for 9 buses at the Owen J. Roberts School District, that they 10 would necessarily be ones that were somewhere else. This 11 would be an unmet need that the county would supply under 12 its normal procedures. The question is irrelevant to the
() 13 remanded issue.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Let me see, Mr. Stone, if I can get 15 what you're driving at within the limits that we are i
16 dealing with here.
17 Mr. Campbell, Mr. Bigelow, the testimony that i 18 you have heard here today is simply drivers of some of the i
i 19 buses -- there has been testimony as many as 30 -- are
( 20 employed by the bus companies, at least assigned to those 21 buses by the bus company that owns the vehicle itself --
i f 22 take those buses home with them so that the bus may not be 23 back at the company owning the bus, that is, the terminal.
24 The testimony has also been that the drivers who j 25 are volunteer bus drivers, to be supplied by PECO, will be
'()
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b 1 delivered to a central location in each of your two 2 counties concerning each of your two bus drivers.
3 I think what Mr. Stone wants to know is how are 4 you going to get them from the company to the house where 5 the bus may be located?
6 Mr. Stone, is that what you are getting at?
7 MR. STONE: Yes, your Honor.
8 JUDGE HOYT: Let's take Mr. Campbell first and 9 then Mr. Bigelow.
10 WITNESS CAMPBELL: Basically we don't intend to 11 get them to those buses. The situation is that when 12 Dr. Claypool calls us, he will inform us that he has at his 13 central site a number of buses, that he has a number of
( })
14 drivers.
15 If there is a difference between the two, we 16 will supply the difference from the staging area at Exxon.
17 If he requires additional buses, they will be so similarly 18 delivered from the staging area.
19 BY MR. STONE:
20 0 Is it your testimony that -- strike that.
21 What is your relationship, as the county 22 coordinator, to the school district in terms of this 23 emergency planning? Are you, in fact, over the school 24 district in these matters? Or does the school district 25 have a separate responsibility that the school O
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27874.0 21237 BRT O 1 superintendent would be responsible for?
2 A (Campbell) I can only give you my opinion, but 3 it is that under Pennsylvania's law, the county is a point 4 of contact to which municipalities and other sub-county 5 agencies that have emergency planning obligations turn to 6 for unmet needs. By law, in Pennsylvania, it is a county 7 obligation to coordinate the response of municipalities 8 when a disaster affects two or more municipalities. It is 9 our responsibility to support disaster response when the 10 disaster affects one municipality and cannot be handled 11 within the resources of that municipality. I do not see us 12 as being over the school district. We are in support of
() 13 the school district operation.
14 0 Do you see this solution proposed today and 15 testified to today by the Applicant's panel as a permanent 16 solution or as something in between the present situation 17 and the permanent solution?
18 A Mr. Stone, emergency planning is a dynamic thing.
19 Solutions are neither permanent nor temporary. They are 20 solutions that work the day they are put into effect, that 21 is, the day when the incident happens.
22 What may be a permanent solution yesterday may 23 be, by changes of personnel and whatever, a temporary 24 solution today and an unworkable one the day after. This 25 is one tool, I repeat, one tool of many, that we will use O
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1 to neet the unmet needs of municipalities and school 2 districts in Chester County.
3 I cannot say if someone dies tomorrow on PECO's 4 list that that reduces the usability of the system or not.
5 I see it as one tool. I do not use the term " permanent,"
6 "short-term" or "long-term"; I use one of many solutions.
7 0 Is this the most efficient solution that you 8 could presently devise to remedy this bus driver lack?
9 A Not wanting to refer to previous testimony, but 10 I will, I believe Mr. Bradshaw mentioned we have initiated 11 a survey of fire department personnel who are not tasked in 12 the radiological emergency response plan to determine
() 13 whether there are additional school bus-qualified drivers 14 or heavy equipment-qualified drivers among those people.
15 We will continue to look for those solutions that give us 16 the most tactical options. Since I can't predict the 17 circumstance under which the incident will happen --
18 0 Why do you feel the need to look to other 19 solutions?
20 A Because I can't predict the future in which the 21 incident will occur. Therefore I want as many tools as 22 possible at my option at that time.
23 0 With respect to that, is it your professional 24 opinion that there is any advantage to having a list of 200 25 potential bus driver volunteers as opposed to the original C)
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r 27874.0 21239 BRT 1 list of 570?
2 A I don't understand your question.
i 3 0 Well, with respect to the change from the 570 l 4 list, which was part of the Applicant's original l 5 stipulation, to the present situation where there are 200 i
6 or so, do you see any advantage in that change? Or would
} 7 you have preferred a larger number, if it's possible?
l 8 A Obviously, since I'm looking for more drivers, l 9 I'm looking for more drivers, Mr. Stone. The more drivers 10 the better the chance.
1 1
- 11 The 200 in my opinion gives us a reliable factor 12 but, sure, I'd like 1000, I'd like 10,000. The more people 13 involved the easier and quicker I can get response.
! 14 0 Were you part of the decision to reduce the i
15 number from 570 to 2007 16 A I was consulted. I was not part of the decision.
! 17 0 Just going back to this idea that, you know, the 1
18 most efficient solution to this bus driver shortage -- do 19 you have a time frame in mind during which you would 20 accomplish achieving the other option you just testified to? ;
j 21 A obviously, since the need will exist for the j 22 duration of the life of the plant, we want to do it as soon i
23 as possible. The plant is operating. There is a potential l 24 for accident.
1 j 25 Practically speaking, just as it takes time to i 4
O
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27874.0 21240 BRT V,/~T 1 survey PECO volunteers, it takes time to survey fire 2 departments. It depends on the amount of time we can 3 devote to that mission.
4 0 Can you give us a prediction as to when you 5 might be able to implement that?
6 A Since I cannot predict hurricanos nor hazardous 7 materials incidents nor other things which might divert us 8 from that particular mission, no.
9 0 Let me ask you two questions. First, one 10 relating to the past. In retrospect, seeing where we are 11 today, where there has been a finding that there was a 12 shortage of bus drivers during the past school year for the
() 13 L&J. And Springbrook School Districts, is that a concern 14 how, as an emergency planner for the county, that in some 15 respect, at least, the most efficient optimum plan wasn't 16 in place during that time?
17 MR. CONNER: I would object to the form of the 18 question. I assume this is a reference to the ALAB as 19 distinguished from some other finding. But it is not clear 20 from the question.
21 MR. STONE: I would clarify that. Yes, I'm 22 referring to the Appeals Board ruling and at least which 23 states, as everyone knows, that there is a doubt as to the 24 reasonable assurance for at least the past school year, 25 which would fall between the original decision and that --
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4 2 MR. CONNER: We object to the argumentative form 3 of the question, because no responsible agency like FEMA or 4 PEMA so found. It's argumentative to say that the finding 5 by the Appeal Board necessarily encompasses t
6 responsibilities of those other agencies.
7 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, where in the ALAB 8 decision do you find the particular problem you are dealing 9 with?
l 10 MR. STONE: It will take me a minute. I'll find 11 it.
12 JUDGE HOYT Take your time.
() 13 MR. STONE: I refer first to the bottom i 14 paragraph of page 69 of the ALAB decision and then in 15 conjunction with that --
16 JUDGE HOYT: Is that in the footnotes or in the l
17 text?
1 18 MR. STONE: I'm sorry, the bottom paragraph of 19 the text. Then in conjunction with that I would refer 20 everyone to the top of page 72, which is a conclusion.
21 Really my question is simply that, in view of 22 this finding, and I was careful to say there was some 23 vitiation or whatever of reasonable assurance, was 24 Mr. Campbell concerned as a plant professional that the 1
l 25 most efficient plan wasn't in effect in the last school i
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l year. The next question would follow on that, I would ask 2 about the future.
3 JUDGE HOYT: I don't understand what your 4 question is in asking, as far as this decision of the 5 Appeal Board, is in May. There hasn't been any school year 6 since this finding was made, Mr. Stone.
7 MR. STONE: Your Honor, I was talking to the 8 intervening school year. I was talking between this Board's 9 initial finding, partial initial decision, third partial 10 initial decision, and the ALAB, which remanded the issue 11 back down to us here today.
12 Maybe if I ask -- I'll temporarily withdraw the
() 13 question and ask the second question first.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Let's try that and see where we get 15 with that now.
16 BY MR. STONE:
17 O Mr. Campbell, would you be concerned that the 18 most efficient plan wasn't in effect if, in fact, an 19 adequate number of these volunteer bus drivers were not 20 trained and qualified by the start of the school year this 21 September.
22 MR. CONNER: We have to object to the form of 23 the question, again, because it's still apparently premised 24 on the ALAB, but the question doesn't say so.
25 JUDGE HOYT: All right, Mr. Stone. I'm going to O
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1 sustain the objection. For the simple reason that the plan 2 that was in effect, if there was a plan in effect during 3 the time that the plant went on line and the time at which 4 the ALAB decision was issued, was the only plan available.
5 Whether or not it was efficient is of no consequence to 6 this hearing. We are dating this hearing from the finding 7 of the Appeal Board on May 7th that there had been an 8 insufficient basis upon which to make the reasonable 9 assurance finding and we are hearing that particular issue 10 here and that's all we are hearing.
11 What plan was in existence for the school 12 interval is not a matter before this Board today.
13 So that the objection is sustained and you may
(~)T
\_
14 move on.
15 BY MR. STONE:
16 0 With respect, then, to the upcoming school year, 17 would it be important to you, in your emergency planning 18 responsibilities, that this additional supply of potential 19 volunteer bus drivers be effectively in place by the start 20 of the school year this fall?
21 A (Campbell) It would be helpful. I believe that 22 we have other resources that could be used if they were not 23 in place. But it would be helpful. It's one more tool, as 24 I said earlier.
25 0 I just want to clarify the process, then, which oo ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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I would involve Dr. Claypool calling you with a notification 2 of lack of bus drivers or buses, as you testified. Could 3 you just run through that and give us an indication of the 4 logistics on that?
5 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, the question is bus 6 driver volunteers. We are not concerned in this hearing 7 here with the availability of buses. It's only the bus 8 driver issue that is before us.
9 Do you gentlemen understand that? Very well.
10 WITNESS CAMPBELL: It's hard to answer this 11 question without addressing the issue of buses, however.
12 JUDGE HOYT: Well, try it, Mr. Campbell. If you
() 13 can't do it, you can't do it, and we'll simply have to do 14 what you can do with it plugging buses into it.
15 WITNESS CAMPBELL: It is my understanding that 16 Dr. Claypool will order the location of all available buses 17 that he can muster at the central school campus at the 18 alert notification. At that point he will determine i
19 whether or not he has sufficient drivers for the number of 20 buses assembled there and will ask us for the balance.
l 21 JUDGE COLE: Both buses and drivers?
22 WITNESS CAMPBELL: Since I'm supposed to talk r
i 23 only about drivers, this is only about drivers, sir.
l 24 BY MR. STONE:
[
l 25 0 And to go on from that, then, having received l
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2 A (Campbell) We would then transport drivers from 3 the transportation staging areas, Exxon office systems in 4 Lionville, Pennsylvania, to the location designated by Dr.
5 Claypool.
6 0 And how -- somewhere in this time you are 7 contacting, then, Philadelphia Electric, if you should find 8 you need more drivers?
9 A We are going to contact Philadelphia Electric 10 Company whether or not we feel we need more drivers to get 11 them in place as we would with all the other emergency 12 resources.
() 13 0 Is that one phone call, then, to your 14 understanding?
15 A That is correct.
16 0 Who would that contact be?
17 A Our contact is supposed to be the system 18 operator of Philadelphia Electric Company.
19 0 Are you aware of the arrangements of that 20 individual -- that that individual would use to contact 21 each individual volunteer?
22 A No. But we have alternate arrangements.
23 0 What are those alternate arrangements?
24 A I intend to send a police car to the Berwyn 25 location at the Philadelphia Electric to guarantee O
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1 notification of the site manager there.
2 0 This site manager, is he the immediate 3 supervisor of each group of employees?
4 A I have no idea. His name was mentioned earlier 5 in the testimony.
6 0 So this alternate arrangement relates, then, to 7 your immediate contact with the company?
8 A That is correct.
9 0 Do you have alternate plans to contact the 10 individual volunteers, if that should prove necessary?
11 A When the Philadelphia Electric Company provides 12 us with the names and addresses so we can enroll them as
(~)
s-13 emergency management volunteers, we will have the names and 14 addresses of those persons and, if necessary, and I 15 emphasize "if necessary," I will contact them as I would 16 contact any other volunteer directly.
17 0 Mr. Bigelow, would that description be analogous 18 to your position or would it be something different?
19 MR. CONNER: I have no objection to the question 20 so long as it is limited to the mobilization approach and 21 not to earlier business about drivers and buses because 22 it's a different situation in this county.
23 l MR. STONE: Sure.
, 24 JUDGE HOYT: You understand that, Mr. Bigelow?
25 WITNESS BIGELOW: Yes.
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!q 1 In regard to transportation resources, once 2 under our plan that we initiated calls to all the 3 transportation resources, one of those calls would be to 4 the Pennsylvania -- excuse me, the Philadelphia Electric 5 Company and to alert the drivers that they have been listed 6 as volunteers on their list.
7 Once we receive our input from all of our 8 transportation resources, if we find that we need 9 additional drivers we would use the Philadelphia Electric 10 Company resource for those additional drivers. Does that 11 answer your question?
12 0 And do you also intend to eventually enroll
() 13 these individuals?
14 A Yes, they will all be enrolled. However it is 15 not my intention to call each and every one of them 16 individually. That source -- we go right to the resource 17 itself and they assemble, just as they do with any other 18 transportation facility.
19 0 And is it your understanding that these 20 volunteers, once enrolled, would be of the same status as 21 all of your other potential volunteers? That is, could be 22 called upon in any emergency that you would need them for?
23 MR. CONNER: I object to that. That's beyond 24 the issue remanded by the Appeal Board.
25 JUDGE IIOYT What is your argument, sir?
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) 1 MR. STONE: Your Honor, I simply want to 2 establish whether these volunteers are in some separate 3 category or are in fact the same reliability, the same as 4 every other volunteer. I think this question goes to that.
5 If they are willing to volunteer or be considered 6 volunteering for everything, I think that says something 7 about their status and reliability. I think if they were 8 only willing to volunteer for one narrow issue, I think 9 that might go to the question of their overall reliability.
10 MR. CONNER: If the Court please, there is only 11 one narrow issue here and that's the one sent back by the 12 Appeal Board and their willingness and responsibility to
() 13 respond to the radiological emergency. What they might do 14 in some other kind of emergency is not the subject of this 15 hearing.
16 JUDGE IlOYT: Mr. Stone, could you limit your 17 question in such a way that we would just direct it towards 18 that last statement that Mr. Conner just made? Because 19 that truly is what we are trying to get at here.
- 20 BY MR. STONE:
i .
21 0 Let me ask either of you, would you have any 22 more confidence in the reliability of these volunteers if, 23 in fact, they were available for all emergencies as opposed i
24 to having just stated that they would volunteer for this 3 25 one category?
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27874.0 21249 BRT O 1 A (Bigelow) Mr. Stone, once these people are 2 registered as emergency volunteers there's nothing on that 3 card that distinguishes them on emergencies.
4 0 And that, then, would be your policy? And the 5 same for you, Mr. Campbell? You are nodding, I see?
6 A (Campbell) That is correct, they would be 7 managed as any other emergency management volunteer under 8 the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania emergency volunteer --
9 0 In your opinion could they be called upon? Do 10 you have reliance on them in that?
11 A Yes.
12 0 I have two last questions here. The first would
()' 13 be: Do these volunteers become bus drivers, in your 14 opinion, at the point at which they are either enrolled or 15 trained and qualified to drive, or the point at which you 16 are able to, in an emergency, you know, connect them up 17 with a bus that they can driver?
18 MR. CONNER: If that's a preliminary question we 19 won't object, but it seems to be irrelevant.
20 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Conner, I'm going to overrule 21 your objection because I think it's intriguing. I want to 22 hear the answer. Mr. Campbell or Mr. Bigelow, if you can 23 answer that one, go right ahead.
24 WITNESS CAMPBELL: I believe in Pennsylvania a 25 bus driver becomes a bus driver when he passes the test and O
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27874.0 21250 BRT 1 is certified by the Pennsylvania State Police as a class 4 2 license of the Pennsylvania vehicle code. I don't know any i 3 other way a person becomes a school bus driver.
4 BY MR. STONE:
5 0 And to your mind, whether or not they have a bus 6 to drive is a separate matter or is that somehow included 7 in that, in being a bus driver?
8 A I'm not an expert on the Pennsylvania vehicle 9 code, okay, so you'll have to take this as a lay opinion.
10 I'm certified to drive motorcycles but I don't own one 11 anymore. I'm still certified to drive motorcycles so I 12 assume the same is true for a class 4 school bus as I think
() 13 it is class 6 motorcycle.
14 O Mr. Bigelow, do you want to take a shot at that?
15 A (Bigelow) Let me see if I can clear this up a 16 bit, Mr. Stone. These individuals who obtain class 4 17 licenses are required, under state law, to undergo a 18 certain amount of training every four years and a physical 19 every year in order to remain current. Once these 20 individuals from the Philadelphia Electric Company obtain 21 their license they would be fully acceptable to apply to i
22 any bus company requiring a class 4 license because they 23 would be certified by the state.
24 MR. STONE: That's all.
25 JUDGE HOYT: Does PEMA have any questions?
i (2)
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27874.0 21251 BRT O 1 EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. GOODWIN:
3 0 Mr. Campbell, you said you consider this one of 4 many solutions to the problem; is that correct?
5 A (Campbell) Yes, sir.
6 0 And you also stated that you have done some 7 consulting or had some discussions with Energy Consultants 8 about some other alternatives; is that correct?
9 A That's correct.
10 0 One of which is to survey the fire departments?
11 A That's correct.
12 0 Can you tell me what some of the other resources
/~T 13 might be that you have discussed with Energy Consultants, V
14 as far as doing a possible survey?
15 A Would you rephrase the question?
16 0 Are there any other resources out there that you 17 are aware of, other than the volunteer fire companies, that 18 might be able to be approached by either the county or 19 Energy Consultants?
20 A Yes. Any organization operating buses, school 21 buses or vans, which are not already under agreement with 22 the county are an obvious target for survey and recontact l 23 and recontact and recontact, ad infinitum.
l 24 0 Okay. In light of that fact, is either the 25 county or Energy Consultants at this time ondeavoring to '
1 C:)
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l contact these resources that you just mentioned?
2 A We have completed one round recently and are 3 planning to go out again later this fall.
4 0 Has any thought been given towards approaching 5 any of the other school districts in Chester County, in 6 particular Downington and Great Valley to see whether or 7 not there would be a possibility that some of their school 8 bus drivers could be used?
9 A Downington does not even operate any school 10 buses. They are under contract with a school bus company.
11 And I do not believe Great Valley --
12 0 Let me stop you right there, then. You said l
() 13 Downington doesn't own the school buses. But they are
.' 14 provided by a bus company; is that correct?
1 15 A That's correct.
l 16 0 would there -- has any thought been given l 17 towards approaching that bus company's drivers to see if 18 they might be available?
i 19 A No. Because that bus company is already under i
20 agreement to provide buses and drivers.
21 0 To Downington? Is that -- I'm not exactly sure 22 what you mean, there.
23 A I mentioned, Mr. Goodwin, that they are already i
24 under agreement with the County of Chester to provide 25 school buses and drivers upon request.
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l 0 So you are saying they are available to be used 2 in an emergency? Is that your answer?
3 A That is correct.
4 0 What is the situation with Great Valley School 5 District?
6 A If I remember correctly, Great Valley has 7 indicated they wish to reserve their buses for the needs of 8 their students, as have a number of other school districts.
9 0 Has anyone on your staff or anyone at Energy 10 Consultants been specifically tasked with going out and 11 looking for these alternate resources?
12 A Yes. The Energy Consultants planner assigned to
() 13 the County of Chester and our radiological coordinator and 14 our assistant director have all been tasked with the 15 continuing effort to attempt to obtain as many school bus, 16 van, and other emergency resources as are required.
17 0 Mr. Bigelow, I would like to ask you essentially 18 the same questions. You also consider there's other 19 possibilities here for the inclusion to the long-term bus 20 driver availability question?
21 A If you are asking me do I think there are other 22 people out there in Montgomery County with class 4 licenses 23 we have on tap, the answer is yes. And we will try and 24 seek out all class 4 bus drivers we possibly could. But in 25 what manner we are going to do this, we are in the process O /
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l I right now looking through the fire services, is one example.
2 There will probably be others as well but I can't give you 3 anything specific.
4 0 Are you also in a similar situation with Chester 5 County in that you are working with Energy Consultants to 6 try and come up with either a survey of the different 7 resources or are you doing this in-house at the county 8 level?
9 A We have, and I testified to this the last time 10 we were here, we have surveyed all the bus providers, 11 public and private, in Montgomery County. We have either 12 written or verbal assurances that they will, to the best of
() 13 their knowledge, participate in any emergency in Montgomery 14 County should they be called upon to do so.
15 0 So, based upon what you just stated, then, would 16 I be correct in saying, then, that if for some reason none 17 of the volunteers would be available from PECO, that 18 Montgomery County could still step in and provide their own 19 resources in the event of an accident at Limerick?
20 A I believe our last tally, Mr. Goodwin, we had
! 21 1919 bus drivers that we had identified. We don't have any 22 need for -- I think the largest number would be 534 buses 23 and I think we have sufficient drivers available within the i
24 county.
i 25 However, I would like to state with regard to i ()
l l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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27874.0 21255 BRT 1 the Philadelphia Electric's offer of bringing additional 2 drivers, as Mr. Campbell has mentioned, in an emergency 3 situation, we'll take all the people you can for a backup.
4 MR. GOODWIN: That's all, your Honor.
4 5 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you. Mr. Hirsch?
6 MR. HIRSCH: I have no questions.
7 JUDGE HOYT: NRC Staff?
8 MR. VOGLER: Your Honor, the Staff has no 9 questions.
10 JUDGE HOYT: Redirect?
11 MR. CONNER: No redirect.
12 MR. STONE: Your Honor, if I may interject here
() 13 you had mentioned before that we could possibly call back 14 Mr. Campbell and Mr. Bigelow on Friday because of the lack l 15 of notice that we thought we received, I.
- 16 JUDGE HOYT
- Mr. Stone, I didn't say it quite i
17 that way. Let's get that one straight first. You have had 18 notice of these witnesses and I think the record is 19 perfectly clear on that, plus the fact that these witnesses l
l 20 have testified before and what they testified here this I
l 21 morning -- this afternoon, rather, has been principally the l
l 22 testimony that -- or a review, pretty much, of what they i
23 gave before. There is very little that came out today that i 24 is truly new.
l l 25 MR. STONE: In any event, your Honor, I have one l (1) l 1
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1 more brief matter. It's a letter I would like to have i 2 quickly identified.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, why didn't you do that 4 when you had these witnesses on cross-examination? You do 5 this each time and very frankly it's annoying. What's the 6 letter? Let me see it, please.
l 7 MR. STONE: It was submitted by the Applicants.
8 This letter here. (Handing.)
l 9 I intend to ask no questions about it. The 10 Applicant distributed it to all parties. I feel it should 11 be in the record and we would like to have it in the record.
12 I'll pass a copy to everyone here. If they would stipulate --
() 13 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, this is already a matter 14 of record, it's LEA's exhibit, I believe, 73, is it not?
15 MR. STONE: That's our copy. I just wrote that 16 on there. I have copies without designation.
17 JUDGE HOYT: Has this been Exhibit 73 or never 18 been marked, never introduced?
19 MR. STONE: No, your Honor. I have copies here 20 that haven't been marked. I just --
21 JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
22 JUDGE COLE: Do you have any other copies,
- 23 Mr. Stone? You'll need three copies --
l
! 24 JUDGE HOYT: For the reporter.
25 MR. STONE: I apologize, if there's no objection l
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4 27874.0 21257 BRT 1 maybe we could stipulate this as being LEA Exhibit 73.
2 Since the Applicant already stipulated it to everyone, I 3 would hope they would agree to it, to save time.
4 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, we obviously i
5 sent this in with our proposed stipulation but this is not 6 a proposed stipulation situation because this is a hearing.
7 LEA refused. I see no advantage cluttering the record with 8 one more exhibit unless it has some relevance. This letter 9 doesn't refer to school bus drivers, only to volunteers in 10 general.
11 MR. STONE: Your Honor, the Applicant apparently 12 felt it was relevant to the issue or they wouldn't have
() 13 appended it to their stipulation. I think it does go to 14 Mr. Campbell -- I think it refers to previous discussions 15 and communications with Mr. Campbell, in Mr. Boyer's 16 testimony, expressing the point of view in the letter.
17 Simply something LEA feels it needs for its case, and again 18 I apologize for not having brought out originally.
19 JUDGE HOYT: Do you want to examine the witness 20 on this letter?
21 MR. STONE: I don't need to examine him, your 22 Honor.
23 JUDGE HOYT: I think you are going to have to 24 have some support for it, Mr. Stone.
25 MR. STONE: Maybe if I ask him if this is his O
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/"'i V 1 letter and identify it and once identified as a potential 2 exhibit, if we move it into evidence I would be satisfied.
3 JUDGE HOYT: What's the purpose of putting it 4 into evidence, Mr. Stone? I've read it very rapidly but I 5 don't see any mention of school bus drivers in here.
6 MR. STONE: I think -- I can state my argument I 7 here. I don't know if it's appropria'te. But it goes to 8 the attitude of Mr. Campbell towards potential volunteers.
9 I think it specifies in some detail his dealings with 10 Philadelphia Electric on this matter and his --
11 JUDGE HOYT: Haven't you done that already in 12 your cross-examination earlier? I cannot see, honestly,
() 13 Mr. Stone, what it is you are attempting to do with this 14 letter. This is simply a letter that apparently 15 Mr. Campbell wrote to Mr. Boyer back in December 1984. It 16 deals in general with the subject matter of volunteers.
17 This is in no way connected with the issue we 18 are hearing here this afternoon.
- 19 MR. STONE
- I feel that I need it in for my --
(
l 20 JUDGE HOYT: What you feel that you need, 21 Mr. Stone, is something else. If you can tell me how it's 22 connected, that is what I'm asking you and you are not 23 giving me that.
i 24 MR. STONE: Again, your Honor, I apologize for 25 this. I feel that it gives more specificity to
()
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27874.0 21259 BRT O 1 Mr. Campbell's position at that time when the conversations 2 and contacts between Mr. Boyer and Mr. Campbell began, out 3 of which contacts Mr. Boyer has already testified today 4 that this later proposal grew, and I think that is 5 certainly why the licensee included it in their stipulation 6 as an attachment and it has previously been, then, 4
7 distributed to all the parties. I just think it is an 8 important detail. I think there's a lot of information 9 there that I won't able to reach in this examination. I 10 don't really --
11 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, if you want to examine 12 the witness on this, I'm going to give you another
() 13 opportunity to do that. But I cannot see how this letter 14 is involved in it. Insofar as this letter being attached 15 to the stipulation, LEA rejected out of hand that 16 stipulation that was proposed by the licensee and, 17 therefore, it has no bearing on this hearing at this point, 18 and certainly not on this very limited issue of the school 19 bus. Have you left out something you want to get in that 20 you feel --
21 MR. STONE: Again, I feel that this covers 22 everything --
23 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, I will tell you one more 24 time, if you want to ask a question ask it. If you don't, 25 let's terminate the dialogue here.
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27874.0 21260 BRT O 1 MR. STONE: Could I have this identified for 2 identification purposes?
3 JUDGE HOYT: No, sir. I asked you to proceed in 4 the manner I instructed you, and if you don't want to'do so --
5 BY MR. STONE:
6 0 Mr. Campbell, you do have a copy of the letter 7 dated December 28, 1984 before you, do you not?
8 A (Campbell) Yes.
f 9 0 Did you write that letter to Mr. Vince Boyer at 10 that time?
1 11 A Yes.
12 0 Do the contents of this letter express your 1
() 13 views as to that time as to the issue of PECO volunteers, 14 the possibility of acquiring more of them and some of the 15 details of your requirements for such volunteers at that 16 time?
17 A Yes.
18 0 Does the letter still reflect your views as to l
( 19 this issue?
l l 20 MR. CONNER: Objection, except insofar as it may l
l 21 apply to the limited remand issue.
! t 22 s JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, if you can tie it to the 23 remanded issue of school bus driver availability.
i 24 BY MR. STONE:
l 25 0 would this letter still reflect your views
(~%
l %)
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27874.0 21261 BRT O 1 connected with PECO volunteers who might be willing and 2 able to drive a school bus?
3 A (Campbell) Yes, as it applies to any other 4 volunteer for any other emergency purpose at any time or 5 place.
6 MR. STONE: With that in mind, your Honor, I 7 would like to identify this as LEA Exhibit 73 and then move 8 it into evidence on the basis of his sponsoring testimony. '
9 I feel that it will --
10 JUDGE HOYT: I know how you feel, Mr. Stone.
11 Mr. Conner.
12 MR. CONNER: I renew the objection as to its
() 13 irrelevancy, cumulative and redundant also.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Goodwin, do you have a position 4
15 you want to take on this? Just yes or no.
16 MR. GOODWIN: No.
17 JUDGE HOYT: FEMA? Staff?
18 Mr. Stone, you were told once it was redundant, 19 told twice it was not pertinent to the issue of school bus l 20 drivers. He testified on the school bus drivers -- your 21 request entering this exhibit is denied.
22 MR. STONE: Your Honor, I believe I have a right
- 23 to have this marked for identification so it would be part 24 of the record as denied.
25 JUDGE HOYT: That is correct. It is marked as LEA t
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\/ 1 Exhibit 73 for identification.
2 MR. STONE: Thank you.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Your request to enter it into 4 evidence is denied.
5 (LEA Exhibit E-73 identified.)
6 JUDGE HOYT: Anything further, Mr. Stone?
7 MR. STONE: Irrespective of the exhibit issue, I B see no need for us to cross-examine these witnesses further 9 on Friday, so they should just know that.
10 JUDGE HOYT: Any redirect?
11 MR. CONNER: No.
12 JUDGE HOYT: I had one note.
13 EXAMINATION 14 BY JUDGE HOYT:
15 0 Mr. Campbell, you spoke in response to some of 16 Mr. Stone's questions that you had other resources 17 available to meet your needs in the county, if and when the 18 organization such as the school district were to call upon 19 you for filling a particular need they had. That includes 20 bus drivers as well, does it not?
21 A (Campbell) Yes, t
22 O If there had been a need for a bus driver 23 volunteer, bus driver to be supplied in one of the school 24 districts in between the time that this plant had gone on
- 25 line and now while we were still discussing the off-site l (2) l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 emergency planning as it pertained to the two school 2 districts and the limited issue of school bus driver 3 availability, could you have drawn from those other 4 resources, to fulfill the requests of the two school 4
5 districts, Spring-Ford and Owen J. Roberts?
6 A (Campbell) I can only respond to that as it 7 affects Owen J. Roberts. Yes, we would have been able to 8 supply buses and drivers.
9 O Mr. Bigelow, will you address that also as well?
10 A (Bigelow) Yes, we would have been able to supply 11 Duses and drivers.
12 O Do you know how, in your county, Mr. Campbell,
() 13 the bus drivers for school buses are employed? Are they by 14 companies owning the individual buses or are they employees 15 of the county?
16 A (Campbell) There are none that are employees of 17 the county.
! 18 0 I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
19 A There are none that are employees of the county.
20 There are some school districts which contract with a 21 school bus company for school bus service and the company's 22 operation is limited to such. There are some school 23 districts which contract with a bus company which provides 24 both school bus and other bus services for the school bus 25 service. And there are some school districts which own O
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( 1 operate their own school. buses with-their own employees.
- 2 So we have three variants.
3 0 Do you know which category the Spring-Ford 4 school falls into?
5 A That's Mr. Bigelow's.
6 0 I get the two confused. I apologize. It is 7 Owen J. Robertson.
8 A Owen J. contracts with the Gross Bus Company of 9 Bedford County for their bus service and that includes the-10 provision of drivers to the best of my understanding.
11 0 And the contract is for. bus and driver?
12 A That is correct.
i
() 13 0 Now, Mr. Bigelow, Spring-Ford?
14 A (Bigelow) Spring-Ford works with the Custer Bus 15 Company. They hire the Custer Bus Company. They provide i~ 16 them buses and drivers and'it is unique. I believe it's 17 the only service Custer provides, bus transportation for 18 the Spring-Ford School District.
i 19 0 Do these -- does the Custer Bus Company --
i' 20 A Custer has both drivers and vehicles.
21 0 Does the Custer Bus Company then lease out their
- 22 buses and you supply your own driver? Or is it always i
23 required bus and driver go along?
24 A Bus and driver, ma'am.
l 25 0 Is that true also in your case, Mr. Campbell?
4 I
O i
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.27874.0 21265 BRT O 1 .A (Campbell) I can't speak to the policy of the 2 Gro's Bus Company.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you.
4 May these two witnesses be excused? Does anyone.
5 have anything?
6 Very well, gentlemen. Thank you very much.
7 (Witnesses excused.)
8 MR. CONNOR: The licensee has no further 9 evidence.
10~ JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
11 Mr. Goodwin, do you want to put on Mr. Hippert 12 now?
13 Whereupon, 14 RALPH J. HIPPERT 15 resumed the stand, having been previously duly sworn, was 16 examined and testified as follows:
17 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Hippert, you have been called 18 as a witness in this case previously and you have been 19 sworn. I will remind you that you are still under oath 20 that'you have taken here originally with us. Proceed.
21 (The document follow:)
22
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Before the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board In the Matter of )
)
Philadelphia Electric Company ) Docket Nos. 50-352
) 50-353 (Limerick Generating Station, )
Units 1 and 2) )
TESTIMONY OF RALPH J. HIPPERT FOR THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA RELATIVE TO THE AVAILABILITY OF BUS DRIVERS TO EVACUATE SPRING-FORD AREA AND OWEN J. ROBERTS SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS REMANDED BY THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING APPEAL BOARD UPON APPEAL BY LIMERICK ECOLOGY ACTION Draft 6 (dated 1985-86) of the Spring-Ford Area School District Radiological Emergency Response Plan was reviewed by the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency (PEMA) in January 1986. As indicated in b(s Attachment 3 of that Plan, the District would require a total of 70 buses to effect an evacuation of the public and private schools located within the District. It is further indicated that only 44 buses are available to the District, leaving 26 as an unmet need to be satisfied by Montgomery County. Three of the available buses are reportedly operated by the Chapel Christian Academy, resulting in a balance of 41 to come from the Custer Bus Company, which is confirmed in Attachment 1 of the Spring-Ford School District Plan. While the validity of the Spring-Ford driver survey, wherein more than 50 percent of those contacted failed to respond or were uncertain, is indeed debatable, 13 individuals did agree to drive in the event of a radiological emergency (ALAB-836, page 68). Based upon the Spring-Ford Plan and the District survey there is a shortage of 28 drivers
() for the Custer buses.
1
The latest Radiological Emergency Response Plans available to PEMA for the Owen J. Roberts School Dis.trict is dated December 30, 1985 and is referenced by the District as Regulation 6114.4 As indicated in Attachment 6, page 6114.4(nnnn), a one-lift evacuation would require 52 buses and only 26 are available to the District, leaving an unmet need of 26 to be met by Chester County. The buses reported as available in the referenced plan are provided by the Gross Bus Company. Based upon Dr.
Claypool's conservative interpretation of his survey of 43 Gross Bus Company drivers, 18 would be available to drive buses if an evacuation became necessary (ALAB-836, page 66). This leaves a shortage of 8 drivers for the normal complement of 26 buses provided to the District by the Gross Bus Company.
Using only the two survey results detailed above, there would be a shortage of 36 drivers for the 67 buses routinely provided by the two bus companies. To meet this requirement, the Licensee originally proposed to establish from its work force a pool of 570 trained and licensed school bus drivers who would be readily available if evacuation of the two school districts should become necessary. In his July 24, 1986 letter to the Board and parties, Mr. Conner advised that a reassessment of the requirement resulted in a reduction from 570 to a proposal for the establishment and maintenance of a pool of 200 employees of the Licensee to l l
be trained and licensed as school bus drivers. This reduction is acceptable to PEMA and is still over five times the driver shortage identified by the two school districts for the 67 buses normally provided each school day by Custer and Gross Bus Companies.
2
It is the Commonwealth's position that if an evacuation of the i
V schools should become necessary, due to an accident at any one of the five nuclear power plants within Pennsylvania, it is to be accomplished in a ~
one-lift operation. To do this for Spring-Ford Area and Owen J. Roberts School Districts an additional 52 buses will be required and this has been reported as an unmet need to the respective counties. Both this Board and the Appeal Board have ruled there is reasonable assurance that there are sufficient bus resources within Montgomery and Chester Counties to satisfy this unmet need. With this as a given,' assume a worse case situation wherein no drivers were available for these 52 buses. The shortage then becomes 36 plus 52 or a total of 88. The pool of 200 drivers to be maintained by the Licensee is still over twice this number.
In its June 30, 1986 answer to the Board, PEMA did address the Licensee's proposal as an immediate solution to the question of driver availability. By the same token, PEMA, however, also indicated that the proposal was acceptable based upon assurances from the Licensee that all conditions and provisions contained in the Stipulation and accompanying June 27, 1986 letter to me from Mr. Conner would remain in effect until a
- complete long-term resolution is reached. If a better solution cannot be reached, then the Licensee has no alternative but to maintain the driver pool indefinitely. Until a better solution is developed, if indeed there really is one, PEMA will not agree to release the Licensee from the conditions and provisions of the above referenced Stipulation and letter.
A long-term solution would be oae that does not abrogate the joint responsibility of the counties and school districts for protecting the health and safety of the students to another party, namely the 3
Licensee. Before an unmet school district need is passed to the county, pd resources of the district must be exhausted. Within the district staff there could be individuals willing to be trained and licensed as '
replacements for the regular school bus drivers who were not able or willing to drive during an emergency. Has this course of action really been examined? If this approach is of no avail, the district then passes the unmet need for drivers to the county and the county must exhaust its resources before turning to PEMA and the Commonwealth. This is the Commonwealth's policy for response to any emergency and is verified by Section 7504b of the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Services Code, 35 Pa. C.S.A.
As indicated in Annex Q of the Montgomery County Radiological Emergency Response Plan (Draft 9, January 1986) a total of 426 buses O (excluding coaches, minibuses and vans) are required to evacuate students and others needing transportation from the EPZ. In Annex I of the plan, school bus resources are listed as 1,218. The total vehicle resources for the organizations and companies listed is indicated as 1,783 with 1,919 full or part-time drivers. With these reported assets far exceeding evacuation requirements, it is only prudent to expect that the consummation of arrangements for the optimum utilization of these resources could eventually eliminate the driver pool proposed by the Licensee.
While there are four risk school districts within Chester County, two are outside the EPZ but have students who live within the EPZ. In view of this, it is only the other two, Phoenixville and Owen J. Roberts School Districts, that would need buses for an evacuation. The two Districts, Downingtown and Great Valley, outside the EPZ have a total of 93 buses 4
a l
available. By delaying the normal dismissal time, these buses and drivers i could be used to satisfy the shortages for Owen J. Roberts School District I
and would only require slightly more than one third of the drivers to volunteer to participate in an evacuation. If arrangements could ultimately be made to use these resources, the Licensee's proposed drivers pool would no longer be needed.
The solutions discussed above are of the nature referred to as a long-term resolution in PEMA's June 30, 1986 answer to the Board concerning the Licensee's "immediate solution."
O O
5
PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS (d
s I am the Director, Plans and Preparedness for the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency. The Office of Plans and Preparedness is responsible for providing guidance and assistance in the development and subsequent review of emergency plans for response to man-caused or natural disasters that may strike the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, its counties and municipalities. This includes offsite response to an accident at any of the five nuclear power plants within the Commonwealth.
Prior to joining the Agency in July 1980 as a planner, I was involved for several months as a consultant working on the development of municipal plans for communities within the approximate ten-mile EPZ of the Three Mile Island Nuclear Station, In May 1981, I was appointed as Deputy j Director, Plans and Preparedness and in that position devoted a majority of time to response planning in the event of a nuclear power plant accident.
I assumed my present position in April 1986.
In October 1979, I completed over 32 years of active and reserve military service, with the last seven years on active duty as a faculty member at the U.S. Army War College. I have held Army Reserve assignments from platoon leader to battalion commander to deputy commander of brigade size units. These assignments included responsibility for mobilization planning and response to civil disturbances, such as the Watts Riot in Los Angeles.
() My civilian positions were: Public Relations Manager for a multi plant international electronics company; Advertising Manager for the
same concern; and Assistant to the Sales Manager for the Agricultural Division of an international chemical company.
My education includes a B.S. in Business Administration from the University of California, a M.A. in Political Science from Shippensburg State University, and graduation from the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College and the Army War College.
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1 CROSS-EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. GOODWIN:
3 0 State your full name, please?
i 4 A Ralph J. Hippert. I'm director of the office of 5 plans and preparedness for the Pennsylvania Emergency 6 Management Agency.
7 0 Is your microphone on?
8 A I thought it was.
9 0 In your position at the Pennsylvania emergency 10 management agency are you familiar with the remanded issue l 11 that is before us today concerning the availability of bus 12 drivers for the Owen J. Roberts and Spring-Ford school 13 districts?
14 A Yes, I am.
15 0 Have you, in your position, reviewed the 16 radiological emergency response plans for those two school
- 17 districts?
18 A Yes, I have.
19 0 What has your review of those two plans l 20 determined concerning the number of bus drivers that are 21 needed to evacuate each of these two school districts?
i 22 A The number of bus drivers that they claim to be 23 short, according to the latest plan, is 28 for Spring-Ford j 24 and eight for Owen J. Roberts, for a total of 36 bus 25 drivers. That is the latest plans that we have had I
4
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2 0 So, then, reviewing those plans, that comes out' 3 to a total of 36 driversi.is that correct?
4 A Yes.
5 0 Have you reviewed any other plans or any other 6 statistics, other than these -- the school district plans 7 themselves?
8 A We review all the plans as we receive them from ,
9 all the school districts and all the municipalities and all i 10 I don't know if that's the question you had, the counties.
11 but --
12 0 That's the answer I wanted. Have you reviewed
() 13 the licensee's proposal for resolving this unmet need at 14 both of these two school districts?
15 A Yes, I have.
! 16 0 What is your opinion of the licensee's proposal?
17 A I think it is more than adequate.
18 0 So, is it your testimony, then, that you are l
i 19 basically satisfied that there are adequate provisions that 20 sufficient bus drivers would be available to evacuate both j 21 the Owen J. Roberts and the Spring-Ford school districts in a
22 the event of an accident at the Limerick power station?
, 23 A With the stipulation made by the licensee, yes.
! 24 0 Is this also the position of the Pennsylvania I
25 Emergency Management Agency?
! C) i
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27874.0 21268 BRT O 1 A It is, indeed.
2 MR. GOODWIN: No other questions.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Goodwin, do we have the 4 opportunity to incorporate into the record his prefiled 5 testimony? Did you want to do that? ? I would like to 6 have it.
7 MR. GOODWIN: Certainly, we'd be more than happy.
8 I'm prepared to introduce it.
9 JUDGE HOYT: We'll just bind it into the record 10 at the beginning of his testimony as if given and your 11 additional questions.
12 MR. GOODWIN: Yes, your Honor.
() 13 JUDGE HOYT: Any objection to that procedure?
14 None having been heard -- let me give to the reporter, this 15 is a multi-page document consisting of five pages of text 16 and two, separate pages of professional qualifications of 17 this witness. It will be bound into the record of the 18 testimony of the Applicant.
19 MR. CONNER: We have one question.
20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. CONNOR:
l 22 0 Mr. Hippert, it appears since you first appeared 23 in these proceedings you have been promoted; is that 24 correct?
25 A That's correct.
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. V) 1 UODGE HOYT: Does Mr. Hirsch have any questions?
2 MR. HIRSCH: No, I do not.
3 JUDGE HOYT: Now Staff?
4 MR. VOGLER: Staff has no questions.
5 MR. STONE: Mr. --
6 JUDGE HOYT: We'll give you an opportunity, then, 7 to question the witness, Intervenor. Go ahead.
8 MR. STONE: Thank you, your Honor.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. STONE:
1 11 0 Mr. Hippert, who submitted the Owen J. Robert 12 and the Spring-Ford School District plan to you?
() 13 A I received those in response to a request that I 14 made to the counties. We needed reference copies of the 15 plans to use for PEMA for the exercise we had last November, 16 I guess it was.
17 0 Do you consider this an official transmission to 18 you of these plans?
19 A No. It was a reference copy. It was not an 20 official transmission.
21 0 Do you know whether or not those reference 22 copies include, in their totals of bus driver needs, the 23 results of the surveys that were done by Drs. Claypool and 24 Welliver, and which were the basis of the Appeal Board's I 25 decision remanding the issue to this hearing?
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\_/ 1 A Considering that the surveys were addressed in 2 the hearings we had before and the plan was dated after the 3 hearing, I would assume that, yes, they were taken into 4 ) account.
5 0 Is that an assumption or do you know that?
6 A I know that.
7 0 Do you have an explanation why there would be a 8 difference in the numbers there? Would you have any 9 insight you can give us into that?
10 MR. CONNER: I object. This is floating in the 11 air. I don't know what numbers the alleged discrepancy 12 relates to or the foundation or anything.
() 13 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Stone, are you referring to the 14 unmet needs that Dr. Claypool testified to, for example?
15 MR. STONE: Yes, your Honor.
16 JUDGE HOYT: That were subsequently incorporated 17 into the -- do you know what that number was?
18 MR. STONE: I can refer to it. I was -- most 19 immediately I was referring to the Appeal Board ruling, and 20 what they had summarized as being the testimony at that 21 time. I can go back to the original testimony, but it will 22 take longer.
23 JUDGE HOYT: Where in ALAB-836 do you find that?
24 I think I know -- but maybe you see it.
25 MR. STONE: We'll be talking about the summary (1) l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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27874.0 21271 BRT O 1 of testimony on page 68 of the ALAB ruling, talking about 2 the response, 13 of the 40 surveyed 32 --
3 JUDGE HOYT: That's on page 68. No, I'm sorry --
4 there's also testimony on page 66 about the survey of 5 Dr. Claypool from the Owen J. Roberts school. Mr. Stone, 6 which is it that you are referring to?
7 MR. STONE: I'm referring to page 68.
8 JUDGE HOYT: What figure is that that you are 9 using from that?
10 MR. STONE: I see a figure at the bottom of page 11 68, in text, of a survey result of 13 of the 40 surveyed, 12 32.5 percent be stated they would drive. 21 percent failed
() 13 to respond or were uncertain.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Your question to Mr. Hippler is 15 whether or not the figure of 21 was incorporated in the 16 next draft, whatever it was called? Is that the question?
17 MR. STONE: Essentially, of his knowledge, does 18 he know whether that reference --
19 JUDGE HOYT: The figure, 21? That's on page 68.
20 MR. STONE: Yes.
21 JUDGE HOYT: The objection is overruled, 22 Mr. Conner. Proceed.
23 BY MR. STONE:
24 0 Simply, Mr. Hippert, whether you know whether 25 that survey result was incorporated into the reference O
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1 draft that you looked at, and which is'the basis of your 2 testimony today, or whether it was not, to your knowledge?
3 A The figures that you have in front of your hand --
4 in your hand were made at least a year to a year and a half 5 ago when we had the original hearings. Those figures 6 included the surveys that were testified to by Dr. Claypool 7 and other people.
8 The figures I'm quoting are the figures out of 9 the latest plans that we have received, not ghost figures.
10 As Mr. Campbell mentioned, plans change continuously. And 11 the plans we have now a year later are different from the 12 plans that we talked about in that ruling there.
() 13 0 Again, just to clarify, according to your 14 knowledge, was this the result of additional input by 15 Dr. Claypool, Dr. Welliver or someone else, into the plan?
16 Or is it something that's in this reference copy, the basis 17 of which you can't testify to?
18 A The copies of the plans that we have, as I told 19 you before, are copies that we submitted to PEMA with the 20 knowledge of the county and the knowledge of the school i
21 districts and the knowledge of the municipalities. They 22 were submitted to PEMA to use during the last exercise we 23 had on Limerick. We asked for two copies of them. We 24 received two copies of them. We gave one to PEMA and we 25 used one copy of them. We used it for the exercise and O
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V 1 when we got done using it for the exercise, we reviewed 2 those plans, so as far as we are concerned, those are the 3 latest plans we have.
4 0 And my last , question here, I believe, just to 5 clarify:- The figures you recollect from the referenced 6 copies are 28 unmet bus drivers for Spring-Ford and eight 7 for Owen J.?
8 A That's correct.
9 JUDGE HARBOUR: Excuse me, was it that way or 10 the other way around?
11 THE WITNESS: It ways 28 and eight.
12 MR. STONE: That's what I was trying to clarify.
() 13 THE WITNESS: 28 for Spring-Ford and eight for.
14 Owen J.
f 15 BY MR. STONE:
16 0 You said you had talked to this -- strike that.
17 You said that your testimony today reflects the 18 official policy of PEMA, did you not?
19 A That's correct.
20 0 With whom are you in contact, among the
! 21 superiors at PEMA, with reference to this issue?
22 A The director of the Pennsylvania Emergency 23 Management Agency.
24 0 Who is that?
25 A Mr. John Patton.
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k/ 1 0 Do you know whether or not this subject has come 2 up in any official discussions by the PEMA council?
3 A I cannot answer that question. To the best of
, 4 my knowledge it hasn't.
5 MR. STONE: Okay. Thank you. That's it. ,
6 JUDGE HOYT: Any additional questions? Thank 7 you, Mr. Hippert.
8 I believe, Mr. Hirsch, you are next.
9 (Recess.)
10 JUDGE HOYT:- The hearing will come to order.
11 Let the record reflect all parties present in the hearing 12 room when we recessed are again present in the hearing room.
() 13 During the interval we asked the reporter to 14 check the testimony of Mr. Hippert and he obtained two 15 figures, the number of drivers needed at the Owen J.
16 Roberts School Districts and the number of drivers needed 17 at the Spring-Ford. We also asked for and received from 18 the licensee a copy of the Owen J. Roberts School District 19 emergency plan and also the Spring-Ford Area School 20 District radiological emergency response plan and we asked 21 for and received what is purported to be the current 22 edition.
23 Mr. Hippert, you are still at the counsel table.
24 I asked you if you would please locate in the Owen J.
25 Roberts School District radiological emergency respcnse
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27874.0 21275 BRT 1 plan, current edition, where the figure of 28 may be 2 located. I will now, in a moment, give you the Spring-Ford 3 plan and ask you to do the same and indicate where you 4 obtained the figure.of eight.
5 WITNESS HIPPERT: On page NNNN, of the Owen J.
6 Roberts plan, they'show, the first column they show buses 7 needed and buses available.
8 If you add up the buses needed you'come to 52.
9 If you add up the buses available you come up to 26. And I 10 took the figure of 18 that Dr. Claypool gave in his survey 11 as being the drivers that would be available: 18 from 26 12 left 18 -- eight drivers he didn't have. That's how
() 13 obtained that figure. ,
14 JUDGE HOYT: And that's how you obtained that 15 figure?
16 THE WITNESS: That's how I obtained that figure, 17 yes.
18 JUDGE HOYT: We'll give you the school plan for
- 19 the Spring-Ford School District and ask you do the same l
! 20 exercise on that plan.
l
! 21 While Mr. Hippert is doing that exercise,
! 22 Mr. Conner has the particular plan that you delivered to 23 the board and represented to the Board as being the latest,
! 24 also being distributed to the Intervenor LEA in this case.
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- 25 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, we received a (1) l l
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1 copy of these and I understand'them to be the latest but I i
2
- don't.know what distribution is made by the originating 3 groups, in~this case each of the school districts. This is 4 not something that we do.
s 5 You should understand this is not something that 6 the we work directly in preparing. Each district does it 7
themselves. I assume they are publicly available documents 8 and I assume anyone who followed this such as LEA could
- 9 have obtained copies, but I simply can't say.
10 JUDGE HOYT: I must confess, I had confused
- 11 Philadelphia Electric with the Public Service Company of 12 New Hampshire because in that case they do the distribution
() 13 of the emergency response plans and my mind-just flipped 14 back to that and that was my restraint. Thank you.
15 MR. CONNER: I will restrain any comment.
16 JUDGE HOYT: Please don't.
17 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, on attachment 3 of the 18 Spring-Ford plan, towards the back of the book, there's a 19 listing showing " resources required for evacuation." If
, 20 you add up all those figures under " number needed," you 21 will come up with --
22 JUDGE HOYT: Number needed of what, Mr. Hippert?
23 THE WITNESS: Buses. You'll come up with a t g. , 24 number of seven buses needed. And they indicate that they i e.
25 have a total of 44 buses available, if you add up the t
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27874.0 21277 BRT 1 second column there. Three of those buses are available 2 from the Chapel Christian Academy. I disregarded those.
3 So I left a balance of 41.
4 All right? Of the 41, according to Welliver's 5- survey, he said 13 -- he had drivers for 13. 13 from 41 6 gave me 28. That's 28 drivers he needed there and we 7 needed the eight from Owen J., and that gave us 36 total.
8 JUDGE HOYT: But in both plans the figures that ,
9 you use were those figures indicating the driver and bus, 10 because you used the bus figure; is that correct?
11 THE WITNESS: No. No. What I did, I added up 12 the buses needed, okay?
r
() 13 JUDGE HOYT: All right.
- 14 THE WITNESS
- Let me back up a minute. He said he had 15 available, he had available 44 buses to him. Forget the 16 buses needed. Take out the three buses owned by a private 17 school, if you will. That means he had 41 buses available 18 to him, by his own survey. All right? By his own survey l
19 he said that 13 people would agree to drive buses. So that 20 meant, to me, he has a shortage of 28 drivers. If he went 21 out and made a survey and 13 says "I'll drive," that means 22 he needs 28 more drivers.
23 JUDGE HOYT: All right. Thank you.
24 (Witness excused.)
25 JUDGE HOYT: Gentlemen, you have previo,usly CZ) i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 taken an oath in this proceeding, albeit some time ago.
2 I remind you you are still under this oath.
3 Whereupon, 4 JAMES R. ASHER 5 and 6 RICHARD S. KINARD 7 resumed the stand, and having been previously duly sworn, 8 were examined and testified further as follows:
9 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Hirsch, you have previously 10 entered prefiled testimony. The prefiled testimony of 11 James R. Asher and Richard S. Kinard on behalf of the 12 Federal Emergency Management Agency regarding the issue of
() 13 the school bus drivers for the Owen J. Roberts and 14 Spring-Ford School Districts, consisting of four sheets, 1
15 shall be entered in the record as the direct testimony of 16 the witnesses at this point in the transcript .
17 Do you have any additional corrections,
, 18 deletions or revisions to make, Mr. Hirsch?
19 MR. HIRSCH: I'm not aware of any. Let me ask i
20 the witnesses.
t 21 CROSS-EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. HIRSCH:
23 0 Did you two witnesses prepare this prefiled 24 testimony?
25 A (Asher) Yes, we have.
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27874.0. 21279 BRT O 1 0 Do you have any corrections to make to it at-2 this time?
3 A No, we do not.
4 MR. HIRSCH: Your Honor, I move this.prefiled 5 testimony be received in evidence into the record.
6 JUDGE HOYT: It already'has.
7 (The document follows:)
8 9
10 j 11 e
12 13 14 15 16 i 17
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION [ ggggggg g}g U @ g "
BEFORE THE AT_0MIC'$AFETY'AND_LICENSI_NG BOARD comet r' mmdam* ,)
j>
In the Matter of )
h Philadelphia Electric Company
)
Docket Nos 50-352 50-353 (LimerickGeneratingStation. )
Units 1 and 2) )
PRE-FILED TESTIMONY OF JAMES R. ASHER AND RICHARD Z.KINARD ON BEHALF OF THEFEDERALEMERGENCYMANAGEMENTAGENCY(FEMA)
REGARDING THE ISSUE OF THE AVAILABILITY OF SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS FOR THE OWEN J. ROBERTS AND $PRING-FORD SCHOOL DISTRICTS On May 7, 1986, in ALAB.836, the Atomic Safety and Licensing Appeal Board affirmed the Third Partial Initial Decision issued by the presiding Atomic Safety and Licensing Board except with respect to the issue of the availability of bus drivers for the school buses needed to evacuate the school children of the Spring-Ford School District and Owen J. Roberts School District in the event of an accident at the Limerick Generating Station.
In an attempt to resolve this issue, the utility developed a Stipulation containing a proposed solution. Volunteers who are licensed or who have agreed to become licensed to drive buses in each county (Montgomery and Chester) have been identified by the utility. The Stipulationfurtherstatesthattwohundredseventy(270) company individuals can reach Berwyn, Montgomery County within 30-90 minutes O
.. -- =-
2 O
ofnotificationandthatthreehundred(300)companyindividualscanreach Exton, Chester County within 30 90 minutes.
Each volunteer has agreed:
- a. To drive a school bus, as may be necessary, upon request by the Chester County Department of Emergency Services or Montgomery County Office of Emergency Preparedness to the Philadelphia Electric Company Office of Emergency Preparedness, b, To take training within 90 days to obtain a Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Class 4 drivers license, which authorizes operation O of school buses and to maintain such license.
In his June 27, 1986 letter to Ralph Hippert of the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency (PEMA), Troy B. Conner, Jr., Counsel for the l
Licensee, has provided assurances that the lists of volunteers will continue to be maintained by Philadelphia Electric Company (PECO) and they will seek additional volunteers as may be necessary. PECO will also insure the training and licensing of any new volunteers.
O 1
1
O The Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency, through a document signed by Ralph J. Hippert, Director, Office of Plans and Preparedness and Mark L.
Goodwin, Chief Counsel, has noted that they are satisfied that the Stipulation, as modified by the June 27 letter from Troy B. Conner, Jr.,
Counsel for the Licensee to Mr. Hippert, contains adequate assurances and commitments from the Licensee that a suffi;:1ent number of trained bus drivers would be available to evacuate school children of the Owen J.
Roberts and Spring-Ford School Districts in the event of an emergency, such as an accident at the Limerick Generating Station.
In recent telephone conversations with an official of PEMA, and a O representative of EC Planning and Management Services, a consultant to the i utility, FEMA has been made aware of certain updated information.
! It has now been proposed that two hundred (200) volunteers will actually be trained and licensed to drive school buses, with three hundred.
seventy (370) additional names kept on file for use, if needed. Training for the two hundred (200) volunteers is expected to be completed by the end of August 1986. Based upon the surveys conducted by the Owen J. Roberts and Spring. Ford School Districts, cited by the Appeals Board in their May 7, 1986 ruling (ALAB-836), there appears to be a maximum unmet need of fifty-two (52) bus drivers for the two school districts in question. The PECO e
O
4 O
approach to resolve this issue, even utilizing the new figure of two hundred (200) volunteers, produces a ratio of approximately four volunteers for every unmet driver.
FEMA believes that the proposed procedures offered by the utility and agreed to by PEMA provides reasonable assurance that, in the event of an emergency at the Limerick Generating Station, an adequate number of i volunteers will be available to fill the unmet needs of bus drivers in the Owen J. Roberts and $pring-Ford School Districts.
O O
e-i UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the Matter of )
)
Philadelphia Electric Company ) Docket Nos. 50-352
) 50-353 (Limerick Generating Station, )
Units 1 and 2) )
I hereby certify that copies of " Pre-filed Testimony of Richard Kinard and James Asher on Behalf of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Regarding the Issue of the Availability of School Bus Drivers for the Owen J. Roberts and Spring-Ford School Districts" in the above captioned matter have been served upon the following by deposit in the United States
, mall this 8th day of August, 1986:
- Helen F. Hoyt, Esq. Atomic Safety and Licensing
] Chairperson Atomic Safety and Appeal Panel U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Licensing Board Commission U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Washington, D. C. 20555 Commission Washington, O. C. 20555 Docketing and Service Section
- Dr. Richard F. Cole U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Atomic Safety and Commission Licensing Board Washington, D. C. 20555 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Benjamin H. Vogler, Jr., Esq.
Washington, D. C. 20555 Counsel for NRC Staff Office of the Executive
- Dr. Jerry Harbour Legal Director Atomic Safety and U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Licensing Board Commission U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Washington, D. C. 20555 Commission Washington, D. C. 20555
- Hand Delivery O
Col. Ralph Hippert Angus Love, Esq.
O e.a sviveaie emerse#cy Management Agency io7 east wei# street Norristown, PA 19401 8151 Transportation & Safety Bg.
Harrisburg, PA 17120 Robert J. Sugarman, Esq.
Sugarman, Denworth &
Philadelphia Electric Company Hellegers ATTN: Edward G. Bauer, Jr. 16th Floor, Center Plaza Vice President & 101 North Broad Street General Counsel Philadelphia, PA 19107 2301 Market Street Philadelphia, PA 19101 John L. Patten Director Pennsylvania Emergency Mr. Frank R. Romano Management Agency 61 Forest Avenue Room B-151 Ambler, Pennsylvania 19002 Transportation and Safety Building Mr. Robert L. Anthony Harrisburg, PA 17120 Friends of the Earth in the Delaware Valley Kathryn S. Lewis, Esq.
106 Vernon Lane, Box 186 City of Philadelphia Moylan, PA 19065 Municipal Services Bldg.
15th and JFK Blvd.
Charles W. Elliott, Esq. Philadelphia, PA 19107 325 N. 10th Street Easton, PA 18064 Troy Conner, Jr.
O Miss Maureen Mulligan Conner and Wetterhahn, P. C.
Mr. David Stone 1747 Pennsylvania Ave., N. W.
Limerick Ecology Action Washington, D. C. 20006 P. O. Box 761 762 Queen Street Thomas Gerusky, Director Pottstown, PA 19464 Bureau of Radiation Protection Mark L. Goodwin, Esq. Department of Environmental Office of General Counsel Essources Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 5th Floor P. O. Box 11775 Fulton Bank Bldg.
Harrisburg, PA 17108 Third and Locust Streets Harrisburg, PA 17120 Jay M. Gutierrez, Esq.
l U. S. Nuclear Regulatory William A. We11tver, Ed. D.
Commission Superintendent 631 Park Avenue Spring-Ford Area School King of Prussia, PA 19406 District 199 Bechtel Road i James Wiggins Collegeville, PA 19426 Senior Resident Inspector
! U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission P. O. Box 47 Sanatoga, PA 19464 i O i
o ...
i O theodor c otto. Esa-Department cf Corrections
=otar a S ca abe" Director esa.
Office of Chief Counsel Department of Emergency P. O. Box 598 Services Lisburn Road 14 East Biddle Street Camp Hill, PA 17011 Westchester, PA 19380 A. Lindley Bigelow Roy C. Claypool, Ed.D.
Coordinator of Emergency District Superintendent Preparedness Owen J. Roberts School Montgomery County District 50 Eagleville Road Administration Building Eagleville, PA 19403 R.D. I Pottstown, PA 19464 h, /- ,y - /
Michael B. Hirsch O
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l JUDGE HOYT: Do we have any questions from --
2 let's take it with the Applicant -- beg your pardon, 3 licensee first.
4 MR. CONNER: No questions.
l 5 JUDGE HOYT: How about PEMA?
6 MR. GOODWIN: No questions.
i 7 JUDGE HOYT: Do you still want to go next?
8 MR. VOGLER: The Staff has no questions.
f 9 ,
JUDGE HOYT: LEA,.do you have any questions of 10 these witnesses?
~
11 MR. STONE: Yes, we do.
12 JUDGE HOYT: All right. Please proceed.
() 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. STONE:
15 0 First, I'll direct you to page 4 of your written 16 testimony, the last paragraph. It says, in the first 17 sentence of that paragraph, " proposed procedures."
18 Could you elaborate for us what you mean, in 19 your own mind, by "the proposed procedures offered by 20 utility" in that sentence?
21 A (Kinard) What we were referring to here was the 22 stipulation that was offered by the utility for 23 consideration of the various parties and specifically 24 agreed to by PEMA.
25 0 Does that include in your mind any procedures O
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I that would have to be undertaken the county to either 2 transport these bus drivers to the buses or put them on 3 buses right at the staging area?
4 A No. I believe our consideration here was that 5 there were -- the Appeals Board identified unmet bus driver 6 needs in the two referenced school districts, Owen J.
7 Roberts and Spring-Ford, in that the stipulation proposed 8 by the licensee was to provide for 200 volunteers to fill 9 these.
10 0 Has someone submitted a school district plan to 11 FEMA for your consideration, speaking specifically to the 12 Owen J. School District plan and/or the Spring-Ford School
() 13 District plan?
14 A Plans for those two school districts have been 15 submitted to us on two different occasions. One, 16 originally I believe in December of '83, as part of the 17 informal review process that we conducted and, secondly, in 18 conjunction with the original hearings the Nuclear 19 Regulatory Commission, under the memorandum of 20 understanding between the NRC and PEMA submitted them to 21 our review and Mr. Patton, the director of PEMA, also 22 provided our regional director with a letter saying he had 23 no objections to us reviewing those plans at that time.
24 I believe Mr. Hippert already mentioned earlier 25 that for a review -- exercise review only and not any type O
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1 of formalized review process, plans were also provided to 2 us prior to the 1986 Limerick exercise.
3 0 What distinction do you make between the 4 formalized review copy that you get through channels and 5 the copy that you got for the exercise in '86? I can ask 6 either of you gentlemen.
7 A The copies that were brought in to us for '86 8 were basically informational copies, so that our observers 9 would have an idea as to what plans were being utilized at 10 the present time by school districts, municipalities, 11 counties. Other than that, they are sitting in our office 12 and have not been utilized as part of any formalized review
() 13 process.
14 0 To what extent does your testimony here today 15 rely on PEMA's, that's P-E-M-A's, position that the 16 stipulation would provide reasonable assurance?
17 A I would certainly say that that had a bearing, 18 but from a common sense standpoint we took a look at the 19 worst case numbers included in ALAD-836, and what the 20 utility -- the licensee has proposed to resolve that 21 problem and felt really as an independent judgment as well 22 that it was adequate for reasonable assurance that the unmet 23 bus drivers would be met.
24 0 Is that somewhat independent review based on the 25 figure of 200?
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27874.0 21283 BRT-0 1 A Yes, it is.
2 0 If it should be demonstrated that a somewhat 3 lower figure of bus drivers were, in fact, available at any 4 point in time, would that change the context in which you 5 made that review?
6 MR. HIRSCH: I object. I think the witnesses 7 would probably have a more specific question than one 8 incorporating the phrase "somewhat lower."
9 MR. STONE: I'll withdraw that.
10 BY MR. STONE:
11 0 Should it be shown that 150 bus drivers would in 12 fact be all that would be available at the start of school
() 13 in September, would that --
14 JUDGE COLE: You mean of the volunteer group 15 from Philadelphia Electric?
16 BY MR. STONE:
17 0 Of the volunteer group provided by Philadelphia 18 Electric, would that at least affect the certainty that'you 19 would have as to the adequacy of these provisions?
20 A (Kinard) No. I don't believe so.
21 0 Is there some point at which you begin to feel, 22 in your independent judgment, that the margin of excess 23 there is close enough to start raising questions about 24 whether or not the PECO volunteered bus drivers supplied 25 will be adequate?
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1 A I think we would state that basically a 1:1 2 ratio would be adequate, as far as we are concerned.
3 0 What do you mean by " basically" in that answer?
4 A Well, let's say 1:1, then, and be exact.
5 0 Is this predicated on any certainty that a 6 listed volunteer would, in fact, be available? Or are you 7 saying that, if a volunteer turned in a form and is trained 8 and licensed, that would be sufficient?
9 A I don't understand your question. If he's 10 licensed would it be sufficient?
11 0 Yes.
12 A If he's licensed with a class 4 license in the
()
v 13 state of Pennsylvania, yes, that would be sufficient.
14 0 You mean by that, just to clarify, you mean by 15 that, if a volunteer was available to be contacted, to get 16 a bus and actually fulfill the function?
17 A Yes, that's correct.
18 0 In determining for your purposes the need here 19 for the Spring-Pord and Owen J. Roberts School District, 20 what is the basis of your maximum unmet need number, given 21 on the bottom of page 3 of your testimony, page 3 at the 22 bottom of the last couple of sentences -- lines, actually.
23 , A Basically what I did was refer to the ALAB-36 24 rule, on page 66 where there is a discussion of 43 bus 25 company employees usually driving for the district --
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I shortly below that it is stated, "Dr. Claypool believes a 2 maximum of 18 drivers is a more realistic estimate." So, 3 to begin with I took that 18 of 43 for Owen J. Roberts.
4 0 And what was your judgment as to how many school 5 bus drivers would be needed for the Spring-Ford School 6 District?
7 A On page 68 the Appeals Board was quoted as 8 saying that only 13 of the 40 surveyed drivers -- referring 9 to the Custer Bus Company here -- unequivocally stated that 10 they would drive. So once again I took the conservative 11 figure of 13 in 40 and came up with an unmet need of 52 bus 12 drivers.
13 O Is it your understanding that those figures, as l( )
14 expressed in the Appeals Board ruling, are firm figures or 15 are they merely there to illustrate the Appeals Board a
16 concern that there is some doubt as to reasonable assurance 17 that sufficient numbers of regular school bus drivers would 18 be available?
19 MR. HIRSCH: Objection. I'm not sure if 20 Mr. Stone is asking a question with respect to school 21 districts throughout the EP2, or specifically the two with 22 which the Appeal Board expressed concern.
23 MR. STONE: I would certainly limit myself to 24 the two school districts.
25 BY MR. STONE:
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(/ 1 0 Limiting yourself to the two school districts, 2 Owen J. Roberts and Spring-Ford, could you answer that 3 question?
4 A (Kinard) It's my understanding the Appeal Board 5 is basically referencing the survey the school boards 6 themselves conducted, so I felt those were viable numbers 7 to utilize.
8 0 So, then, for the purpose of your testimony here 9 today you don't take into consideration any other school 10 districts or any other matters?
11 A (Asher) No.
12 0 Could I just ask you, then, in formulating your 13 position here, do you routinely discuss these matters with 14 other individuals at FEMA, that's F-E-M-A, who are perhaps 15 superiors or perhaps in some oversight role within the 16 Federal Government?
17 A (Asher) No. I have the oversight role.
18 0 Just for clarity, you agree with the positions 19 stated by Mr. Kinard, here?
20 A Yes. The position of the prefiled testimony is --
21 was done in concert.
22 MR. STONE: That's it.
23 EXAMINATION 24 I BY JUDGE COLE:
25 0 Mr. Asher, Mr. Kinard, were you present in the n
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-1 room earlier today when Mr. Boyer and Bradshaw were on the 2 stand?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Do you recall Mr. Boyer identifying the changes 5 or modifications to paragraph 12 of their testimony?
6 A I recall him making such modifications.
7 JUDGE HOYT: Will you use your microphone, 8 please.
9 WITNESS ASHER: I recall him making such 10 modification.
11 BY JUDGE COLE: ,
12 0 Do you recall the content of paragraph 12 of the
],
() 13 Boyer-Bradshaw testimony? Do you have it before you, sir?
i 14 A (Asher) Yes.
15 0 This summarizes the schedule for the training j 16 and testing of the volunteer bus drivers. Did you take the
, 17 content of paragraph 12 into account when you arrived at 1
18 the conclusionary paragraph at the end of your testimony on l
l 19 pago 4?
l 20 A (Kinard) I would say that based upon preliminary i
j 21 discussions, wo had not seen this actual prefiled testimony i 22 at the time we had prepared ours, but based on preliminary 4
- 23 conversations that I had with a member of the E.C. planning 24 staff, and at that time asked him for a ball park figure l 25 when he expected the training to be completed that was part
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27874.0 21288 BRT O 1 of the considerations in our statement on page 4.
2 0 Was, then, paragraph 12 of the Boyer-Bradshaw 3 testimony approximately the outline that you received, 4 prior to preparing your testimony?
5 A Yes, it was.
6 0 Were you present in the room when Mr. Boyer 7 identified the changes in that schedule for training and 6 testing?
9 A (Asher) Mr. Kinard went back to our office. I 10 was present.
11 0 Mr. Kinard, have you had a chance to look at the 12 changes that Mr. Boyer made in that testimony? ,
() 13 A (Kinard) No, I haven't.
14 0 Mr. Asher, have you had a chance to look at the 15 changes Mr. Boyer made in that testimony?
16 A In all respect, I only received some of them. I 17 could only pick up some of them in the back of the room.
18 JUDGE COLE: I believe the Applicant indicated 19 that he had typed versions of the new paragraph, item 12.
- 20 Would you show that to the two witnesses?
i 21 (Mr. Connor complies.)
22 BY JUDGE COLE:
23 0 Have you each had a chance to look at that, sir? ,
- 24 A (Asher) Yes.
, 25 A (Kinard) Yes, we have.
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I 27874.0 21289 BRT O 1 0 would the changes that Mr. Boyer provided today, 2 and the current estimate of the training and testing 3 schedule, would that change anything that you have stated 4 in your final paragraph of your testimony where you come to 5 some conclusions about the reasonable assurance issue?
6 A (Kinard) No, it would not.
7 JUDGE COLE: Thank you. That's all I have.
8 JUDGE HOYT: Any additional questions? I have 9 no questions. May these witnesses be excused? Thank you, 10 gentlemen, for your testimony. You are excused.
11 (Witnesses excused.)
12 JUDGE HOYT: Do we have any additional matters
(]) 13 that we can take up this afternoon?
14 MS. MULLIGAN: Yes, Judge Hoyt, just one.
15 That's the subpoenas.
16 JUDGE H0YT: We'll have that in a moment. I 17 should say any additional matters pertaining to witnesses 18 here this afternoon.
19 None of the witnesses that have been excused 20 will return. You understand that, Mr. Stone? Ms. Mulligan?
21 MR. STONE: Yes.
22 JUDGE HOYT: Are you going to be back, 23 Mr. Hippert?
24 WITNESS HIPPERT: Yes, I am.
25 JUDGE H0YT: Which one of your witnesses will be O
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1 available, Mr. Conner?
2 MR. CONNER: I don't know what the Board wants, 3 but if you'll identify the area --
4 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Boyer indicated from the back 5 he'd be here, Mr. Bradshaw, and the two county coordinators 6 will be here as well. So, everybody got excused and nobody 7 is leaving.
8 There have been two subpoenas asked for, by the 9 LEA Intervenor. We will act upon them. That is the 10 subpoena of Mr. William Weller, superintendent Spring-Ford 11 Area School District, and the other is Dr. Roy C. Claypool, 12 district superintendent of the Owen J. Roberts School
()
13 District.
14 In tendering these subpoenas for signature, 15 there was no witness fees attached. Are we going to have 16 any objections to that?
17 MR. CONNER: We would make the same objections 18 we made before. Particularly we would avoid coming back 19 here on Friday.
20 MS. MULLIGAN: Judge !!oyt, I have checks with me 21 for that. I jest wasted to make sure they hadn't changed 22 since last time.
23 JUDGE !!OYT: The dates that you asked for the 24 witnesses, however, has been indicated as 18 August and I 25 b.alleve Friday will be the 22nd. We'll have to change that O
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27874.0 21291 BRT O 1 date. We can do that and initial it. And we will not want 2 them at 7:30 in the evening but we'll want them at 9:30 in 3 the morning.
4 other than that, and if you will give us the 5 witness fees and the mileage, which I think -- I've 6 forgotten what we used before in these hearings for these 7 two witnesses because they had had subpoenas as well.
8 These matters can be done off the record, 9 however. There's no need of retaining the reporter and the 10 other persons.
11 I will sign these subpoenas and give them to 12 Ms. Mulligan and Mr. Stone at the conclusion of the hearing,
() 13 after we have had the checks attached to them.
14 Is there anything else that we need to discuss 15 this evening?
16 Very well, then, we will adjourn the hearing 17 until 9:30, August 22, in this room.
18 (Whereupon, at 3:30 p.m., the hearing was 19 adjourned, to reconvene at 9:30 a.m., August 22, 1986.)
20 21 22 23 24 25 O
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CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before I
the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
1 NAME OF PROCEEDING: PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY (Limerick Generating Station, Units 1 and 2) 1 DOCKET NO.: 50-352 OL; 50-353 OL PLACE: PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA i j DATE: MONDAY, AUGUST 18, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original
- transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
i
/
,/
1_
(sigt) L_ AS (TYPED)77'I I JOELfSREITNER I
i Official Reporter I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Rcporter's Affiliation i
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i i
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