ML20203C963
| ML20203C963 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Limerick  |
| Issue date: | 07/17/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-087, CON-#386-87 OL, NUDOCS 8607210109 | |
| Download: ML20203C963 (46) | |
Text
-
)
UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OIGibAL IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-352 OL 50-353 OL PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY (Limerick Generating Station, Units 1 and 2) i LOCATION: UASHINGTON, D. C. PAGES: 21117 - 21157 1
DATE: THURSDAY, JULY 17, 1986 0l 0\\
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, 'D.C. 20001 (202) 347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
l CR27559.0 MM/sg 21117 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 l NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ,.
BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 4 :
In the Matter of: :
5 : Docket No. 50-352 OL PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY : 50-353 OL 6 :
(Limerick Generating Station, :
7 Units 1 and 2) :
8 -------------------X A e-Federal Reporters, Inc.
9l '
Suite 402 444 North Capitol Street 10 Washington, D. C.
11 l Thursday, July 17, 1986 12 i
) The telephone'prehearing conference in the above-entitled 13 14' l matter convened at 3:35 p.m.
15 l BEFORE:
16 JUDGE HELEN F. HOYT, Chairman 17 I Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 18 Washington, D. C. 20555 19 l JUDGE JERRY HARBOUR, Member 20 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 21 W shington, D. C. 20555 22 23 24
~j 25 l -- continued --
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
. . . , , . _ m= _ . . . . .
I 21118 I
APPEARANCES:
__ f 2
- On behalf of Philadelphia Electric
- Company:
3 I l
l TROY B. CONNER, JR., ESQ.
4 l ROBERT M. RADER, ESQ.
I Conner & Netterhahn, P.C.
5 1747 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D. C. 20006 6
7 On behalf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:
8 RALPH J. HIPPERT, 9
Deputy Director, Plans & Preparedness MARK GOODWIN Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 10 Emergency Management Agency Room B-151 11 Transportation & Safety Building l Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
,- 12 i i )
13 On behalf of Tsimerick Ecology Action:
14 ! CHARLES ELLIOTT l MAUREEN MULLIGAN 15 ! Limerick Ecology Action
, Box 761 16 Pottstown, Pennsylvania 17 On behalf of Nuclear Regulatory Commission Staff:
18 i l BENJAMIN H. VOGLER, ESQ.
19 l Deputy Antitrust Counsel I
Office of the Executive Legal 20 Director U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 21 l Wahsington, D. C. 20555 1
22 23 l ga l j ACE-3EDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
- fYS . u* . t*nn Nstinnwide Cm ermee IMXLIM
l i
4 5590 01 01 21119 u- Mimie 1! PROCEEDINGS 2h JUDGE HOYT: Let us go on the record. I will i 3 give you the names to the reporter.
l 4 The names are Troy Conner for the Licensee, and 5 Robert Rader.
d 6 Ben Vogler, NRC Staff.
7 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Bob Goodwin and 8 Ralph Hippert.
9' For LEA, Maureen Mulligan and Charles Elliott.
10 The subject of the conversation, of course, is 11 l the remand on the case. I wanted to identify who we have
- 12 here in my office. This is Judge Hoyt and Judge Harbour.
U 13 Judge Cole is away on an itinerary and so will not be 14 available today. Hoyt and Harbour will act as a quorum here 15 today.
i 16 We had the proposal of the Licensee, which as I 17 understand it Ms. Mulligan, you, by your pleading, have 18 found inadequate to meet the issues remanded by the Appeal i
19 Board. Is that correct?
20 l MS. MULLIGAN: That is correct.
I I
21 JUDGE HOYT: Do you still have that position?
22 MS. MULLIGAN: Yes.
23 , JUDGE HOYT: All right.
l
(} 24 ! We have looked at some dates on which to get a 25 hearing going because I believe an oral hearing would be the i l
1 i
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
%A-DB7.17TI) N4ioeide Compage 800 336-6646
l l1 i l l
9 5590 01 02 s 21120 x ' !
b JMimie 1 easiest way in which to resolve this matter, although
- 2) Ms. Mulligan your pleading of July 10th seemed to feel that i 1 #
3f you had to have an oral hearing. We are going to do it by l
4! oral hearing, although we could take this on somewhat of a t
5l matter of fact procedure and do it by document. But, we 6 will go ahead and do it by oral hearing, because I think fi
- 7) it might be a little faster.
il 8! We have looked at a couple of dates, and the best
- 9. dates that we could come up with from the point of view of 10 getting the Board together, the parties together and 11 l obtaining an appropriate place for conducting the hearing,
- 12 , would be August the 18th -- that is a Monday -- and August
(_)s !
13 l the 22nd, which is a Friday.
a The location would be the Old Customs Courthouse 14 l 15 l where we had some other hearings in the Limerick case. And 16 y that is only available on those two days of that week. We l
17 ! do not have any other time prior to this August 18th that l
18 i meets any of tne needs of the Board members. I have other i
19 ! commitments. So does Judge Cole and Judge Harbour is very i
20 busy on other matters, although he would be in his office.
21 l We are going to take a reading from the parties 22 now to see if there is any difficulty with those dates.
23 , Mr. Vogler?
i
() 24 l MR. VOGLER: Yes, ma'am. ;
25 l JUDGE HOYT: Do you have any problems with those 1
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
,,,,,, , m - _ ,_ m,_
5590 01 03 4 21121 l
Mimie 1 q
dates?
2 MR. VOGLER: Either the 18th or the 22nd is fine i 1
with the staff.
3]1 41 JUDGE HOYT: Fine.
~ 'i, 50 What we would intend to do is use the 22nd in the 6 rare, rare case, we feel, that we would need a backup date.
7 y MR. VOGLER: In other words, both dates?
i 8 JUDGE HOYT: Yes. We are going to keep both 9 dates open.
10 j MR. VOGLER: Both dates are fine.
11 JUDGE HOYT: Fine. Good.
12 ' Mr. Conner?
13 h MR. CONNER: We are ready at any time.
l 14 i JUDGE HOYT: All right. Mr. Goodwin and 15 Mr. Hippert?
i MR. GOODWIN: Either date is fine, your Honor.
16 l I
17 l MR. HIPPERT: And also Mr. Hippert, either date 18 l is fine.
k 19 j JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
20 ! You understand, Mr. Hippert that August 22nd, the 21 ; Friday, would be a backup date in the event that we needed 22 , more time than the one day we proposed for having this 23 I hearing.
t
( }) 24 MR. HIPPERT: Yes.
f 25 j JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
, , . , . . m ._ _ ,,m.m
I, 5590 01 04 21122 Mimie 1 All right, Ms. Mulligan?
2l MR. ELLIOTT: This is Charles Elliott. I might c 3 have a preliminary response.
4l JUDGE HOYT: Let me just ask you, is there any 5I problem with the date?
I 6l MR. ELLIOTT: That is what I was going to get 7 into.
8 While the dates themselves may not pose any problem, but the differences in our posture and the posture 9l 10 of both the Licensee, the Commonwealth and the NRC is that i
11 l they apparently have all the information that they need in 12 f their possession. LEA's situation is somewhat different.
O 13 We do not know who they intend to put on as 14 l witnesses. Nor do we have an idea of some of the essential i
15 l identity of the people who are going to be carrying out the l
16 l responsibilities under the Licensee's proposal. So, it is 17 ;l awfully difficult for us to prepare for a hearing on a l
18 l four-week notice without really having the identity of the I
19 l relevant participants being disclosed to us.
I l 20 l JUDGE HOYT: All right, Mr. Elliott, then if you l
21 ! take that posture, what we will do is we will work l 22 backwards. We will first find out -- Mr. Conner, can you l l l 23 i give us the names of your witnesses?
24 MR. CONNER: Certainly. We will have Mr. Boyer 25 , backed up by Mr. Bradshaw. And then, of course, whatever 1
l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
2011Jt1?fm hinnside Cmerase Sulk 1EaM6
1 l
- l 5590 01 05 l 21123 i I'd !
h 'Mimie 1 other backup witnesses involved, like Mr. Cunnington, who l
2 has already testified and se forth, on any details that 3, might be pertinent.
4, JUDGE HOYT: I'm sorry, I don' t understand what
- 5) the other witnesses are after Bradshaw.
F 6l MR. CONNER: Just people who work for him and who l
7 might have certain details that might be necessary.
8 JUDGE HOYT: Am I reading you right, then
'I 9l Mr. Conner. That is when Bradshaw appeared in the case 10 before he usua,lly had several of his assistants with him and 11 they testified as a panel. Is that what you are talking
,cy 12 , about?
kJ J 13 ] MR. CONNER: I don't think that will even be 14 ' necessary here. We would have people there in case there 15 was some detail that Mr. Bradshaw didn't remember, or that
!l 16 p Mr. Boyer didn't remember.
17 MS. MULLIGAN: Are you saying that you want to 18 l reserve the right to call others up?.
19 , MR. CONNER: I want to do nothing that we haven't 20 done throughout this case previously.
21 , MS. MULLIGAN: Which is at times you have called 1
22 , up --
23 ! MR. CONNER: I would like the record to reflect I
(~'; 24 ' that we tried to contact LEA repeatedly from the beginning x_j 25 to discuss this and I was unable to talk with anybody --
! ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
i ,...,,,,., m . _, . . . , , _
5590 01 06 21124 Mimie 1 MS. MULLIGAN: I think you are off the issue, 24 Mr. Conner. We can discuss that as part of it if you want
! {
3! to. But --
4l (Simultaneous discussion.)
I 5 JUDGE HOYT: Just a moment, all of you.
6j One of the things that I am not going to go i i 7l through with in this group is to have people talking over 8 others.
9 Ms. Mulligan, Mr. Conner is making his 10 ! statement. If you have objections to it, we will listen to I
11 l those. But first we are going to have each one of these I
12 j counsel make their statement uninterrupted. And by heavens O :
above, I mean uninterrupted.
13 l I i
14 l I have just been through this with transcript 15 problems and I am not going to have others talking over .
16 people again.
17 MS. MULLIGAN: I apologize.
18 JUDGE HOYT: Did you get that straight, each of i
19 you. Does everyone understand that?
20 ! MR. CONNER: Yes.
21 JUDGE HOYT: Now, Mr. Conner, will you finish 22 your statement?
I 23 l MR. CONNER: Okay. They are the two l
24 witnesses. And the witnesses that we will present will be 25 j Mr. Boyer and Mr. Bradshaw. We would expect to submit l
l l
j ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
l l
5590 01 07 I 21125
(~ i h-)Mimie
/
1! prepared testimony, which won' t be very long, on their 2 testimony in advance of the hearing, as we would expect the 3 other persons to do also.
4 JUDGE HOYT: Well, we are going to have a date 5, set for that during the hearing.
6l MR. CONNER: Okay. And we would also ask that 7i everybody, as we have done previously in this case, submit 8! any proposed findings at the close of the hearing.
l 9' JUDGE HOYT: All right. Let us get this other 10 j problem settled first.
)
11 l Now, Ms. Mulligan, what do you have to 12 contribute?
13 MS. MULLIGAN: I was just trying to get an answer 14 to my question, and Mr. Conner started off on another 15 l subject.
16 ,
t JUDGE HOYT: No, ma'am, you started interrupting 17 l Mr. Conner. Now complete your statement without all this i
18 argument, Ms. Mulligan.
l MS. MULLIGAN: I am trying to get a clear idea, 19 l 20 i are these the only witnesses that PECO is planning on 21 , calling? That would be Mr. Boyer, with a backup from 22 I Mr. Bradshaw, and Mr. Cunnington. And the other people I
23 l might consult with these people, but they wouldn' t actually 1
(} 24 l be called as witnesses.
25 Is that correct?
I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
m.s. s.. _ _ .... m,-
5590 01 08 < 21126 as'Mimie 1 MR. CONNER: Let me restate it so there is no 2 confusion. c
)
3 Previously, as we have used in this case, we have 4l had Mr. Boyer as the company's chief spokesman witness. For 5 matters on the offsite emergency plan, Mr. Bradshaw was the 6i spokesman for the EC coordinating company. And some of his 7l 4 employees were also used as backups.
8i Now, all we anticipate using here are Mr. Boyer 9' and Mr. Bradshaw and no others. There is one point I was 10 going to bring up later, but I will bring up now.
I 11 j Mr. Bigelow was subpoenaed by us from Montgomery 12 County, and we will either ask him to come under that same N
13 subpoena, unless he and the State, the Commonwealth, have 14 come to some other understanding.
d 15 , MS. MULLIGAN: Such as Mr. Campbell?
i 16 , MR. CONNER: Mr. Campbell appeared as a witness l
17 ' for the Commonwealth.
18 l MS. MULLIGAN: You don't plan on calling him 19 l then, in other words?
20 , MR. CONNER: Just as happened the last time, 21 l i Mr. Campbell came as a witness for the Commonwealth. I 1
22 : assume he still will.
23 > JUDGE HOYT: Well, the Commonwealth can speak to l
/ 24 i that later on.
\_)) l 25 l Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Hippert, can you tell me who ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
n2 34M?m Nationwide Coverare H% 33MAM
l I
5590 01 09 L 21127
(')
h / Mimie 1j
}
you would have as witnesses, if any, Mr. Campbell or anybody 2I else? '
,j o
3 MR. GOODWIN: Your Honor, right now the 4 Commonwealth would plan on only calling one witness, and 5 ! that would be Ralph Hippert.
6 JUDGE HOYT: All right.
7 Does Staff have any witnesses?
8 MR. VOGLER: Yes, we do, your Honor.
9! JUDGE HOYT: All right, go ahead.
I 10 i MR. VOGLER: We will have the two witnesses from I
11 ! FEMA who testified for the Staff before, Mr. Rick Kinnard, 12 and Mr. Jim Asher, both of whom are stationed in 13 Philadelphia.
14 JUDGE HOYT: All right. Thank you.
15 Now, Ms. Mulligan, you had on the issue of these 16 school bus drivers for these two districts of Owen 17 l J. Roberts and Springford, you had those two superintendents 18 from those school districts available as your witnesses.
19 l Do you intend to use those same witnesses again?
I 20 MS. MULLIGAN: Yes, Judge Hoyt.
21 Also, I am not sure at this time, and I think to 22 j avoid or to just clarify some of these issues, because we 23 have not taken -- we haven't had any discovery time or
() 24 interrogatories, that I can't really say if there aren't 25 others. What I would like to suggest is a time for that to ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
e -
I i
5590 01 10 -l 21128
(~\ f
$~ Mimie 1 avoid unnecessary added hearing time, and also to be able to 2' focus and clarify so that we are better able to do that.
3I I would like to suggest that if we could have a I
time for both of those, for interrogatories to be answered, 4l 5 and also for depositions to be taken. And, if Mr. Elliott 6! has anything to add to that --
See, part of the problem on 7l MR. ELLIOTT: Yes.
8 this is that the issue identified by the Appeal Board is that the issue is not the provider's commitment or 9l 10 intention, but the willingness of the provider's drivers to 11 volunteer.
12 That is a factual issue that it seems to me the t
13 proffered testimony of PECO does not satisfy.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, I think you may have l
15 ' misstated that somewhat.
16 MR. ELLIOTT: I read it right from the ALAB 17 petition on page 64.
18 ' JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, do you mind if I 19 ! finish?
l 20 ' MR. ELLIOTT: Oh, no, go ahead.
21 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you.
22 i MR. ELLIOTT: You are welcome.
23 JUDGE HOYT: And that is the last time I am going 24
(]) i to tolerate any more interruptions of anybody, including 25 4 me. I have been through these interruptions with people on i
1 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
7419 1J? 1*tW1 kJ ma ..s. .. A. P.s.. . AdWL 11A h
l
\
5590 01 11 , 21129 ;
O j kJMimie 1j the record and it makes it extremely difficult for the i
2j reporter to get it. '
I, C 3l MR. ELLIOTT: I did not realize I was i
4 interrupting.
5 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, will you please?
6; MR. ELLIOTT: Go ahead.
l 7! JUDGE HOYT: Going back to what the limited issue 8 is that the Appeal Board talked about is the drivers for the 9! two school districts, and whether there would be adequate i
10 j drivers.
i 11 i The entire proposal and where these volunteer i
12 - drivers would be taken from by the Applicants, never came up 13 until this part was incorporated in the Applicant's 14 proposal. So, I think you are mixing two dif ferent parts of 15 ! this case together here, and I don't think that is proper.
16 , What we are going to hear is the single one issue 17 of whether or not, for those two school districts, there are 18 sufficient drivers to operate the buses to evacaute the 19 school personnel. That is all we are going to litigate.
20 ! That is all, in my opinion, the Appeal Board directed us to 21 do and that is all we are going to do.
22 ! Now, Mr. Vogler, do you have any other 23 interpretation of the remand than that?
24 MR. VOGLER: No, I do not, your Honor.
25 ! JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Mr. Conner, do you have l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
>wmm -- -
i 5590 01 12 .
21130 0'Mimie v 1 any other?
2 MR. CONNER: On the contrary. I think it is a 3 very limited issue, and pages 72 and 73 of the Appeal Board 4 order I think make that very clear.
5; JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
l 6 MR. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, may I just respond just 7 briefly.
8f JUDGE HOYT: Is that Mr. Elliott?
I '
9, MR. ELLIOTT: Yes, it is.
10 JUDGE HOYT: Now, Mr. Elliott, the reporter does 11 not know your voice, so you must identify yourself.
12 ! MR. ELLIOTT: I will try to do that.
O 13 JUDGE HOYT: Go ahead.
14 MR. ELLIOTT: I don't believe that I disagree with the interpretation that your Honor just gave. I think 15l!
16 it is consistent with what I said. My point is that the 17 l underlying factual issue is the willingness of the drivers 18 to volunteer. And that factual issue was identified by the 19 Appeal Board on page 64 of its opinion.
l 20 ' So, LEA has to take the position that in order to 21 have a hearing that is meaningful, it is necessary for us to l
22 explore the factual issue of whether the drivers are 23 willing, in fact, to volunteer. That factual issue, we 24 don't believe can be properly explored and candidly explored 25 , unless we have the opportunity to in some way, verify by ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-14? 1*00 Nath nauk Cmeran 30a11&a6aa
I
?
5590 01 13 21131
< J, L -Mimie 1' cross examination, that willingness of the drivers to 2' volunteer. And that kind of cross examination is impossible
{
3i if the witnesses are simply Mr. Boyer and so on, and not 4l actually at least one or more of the drivers who, in fact, 5' are purported to volunteer by virtue of Mr. Boyer's 6 affidavit.
7 While on the one hand we certainly don't think it 8! would be productive to spend a great deal of hearing time 9 taking the examination of numerous drivers, at the same time l
10 I think it is absolutely crucial for us to have the ability 11 ; to test the validity of the affidavits that have been filed 7 x 12 by examining, at least during a deposition, one or more of
( )
13 ) the drivers whose commitment Mr. Boyer represents in his 14 : affidavit.
i 15 In order for us to do that it is absolutely 16 h necessary for the identities of the proposed drivers be 17 disclosed to LEA, and I think that is an absolute minimum in 18 terms of discovery that we can ask for. I would like to see I
19 i PECO identify by name, by address, by telephone number each 20 : driver it purports to have volunteered by virtue of 21 ' Mr. Boyer's affidavit, so that if necessary LEA can choose 22 maybe a random sampling of the drivers to determine in fact i
23 l that they are willing to volunteer, that they have the
(} 24 qualifications necessary to drive a school bus, and that in 25 ' fact the commitments made in the Licensee proposal will be
- ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
i ,,,,,,,,,, m-,~,., , ,,, _
I i
5590 01 14 .
21132
- /
i -Mimie carried out.
1l 2f JUDGE HOYT: I think you are going to all
- l 3I respond.
4, Go ahead, Mr. Conner.
5j MR. CONNER: One, we certainly would object to 6l any kind of further delaying tactics by trying to talk to i
7j 500 people to find out if they are telling the truth when 8 they do it. We have great confidence in our employees, and l
I know that Mr. Boyer will make that very clear in his 9l 10 l testimony.
11 ! We will, in fact, produce the documentation, the
,f-12 volunteer forms that each of these individuals signed and
'x s i 13 l tell how they were trained and things like that, as may be 14 h j necessary. But, the idea of dragging this case out more and i
15 l more by trying to talk to all these individuals, we object 16 to.
17 Secondly, it would be these individuals have 18 , volunteered to help in a situation. To have their time 19 ! intruded upon further by LEA by bothering them on the i
20 ' telephone, we also object to, i
21 Now, some idea of some random sampling might be i
22 ' something that could be worked out. But, I don't believe 23 that we are under any obligation to produce 500-odd l
T) 24 ! individuals for LEA to have harassed.
L.J l
25 l JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Conner, do you have that list of I
i I
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
,,,, u ,, s___ _ , , . , _
i 5590 01 15 . 21133
(~)
i Mimie 1 drivers already prepared?
2 JUDGE HOYT: I don't know. '
3, We have the volunteer sheets prepared. Whether 4j they have been assembled on a list, I don't know.
i 5I At the moment they are very busy trying to divide i
6, them up into groups to get the requisite training, and I 7li simply don't know what shape it is in.
8j JUDGE HOYT: All right, Mr. Conner, let me ask 9; you. Could you have those sheets -- if you don't object to i
10 doing this, instead of doing a list, do you have those 11 ! sheets available, and could you give a copy of all -- I i
,y 12 i think 570, that are available, of your employees?
L_)
13 l MR. CONNER: Yes. There were more sheets than 14 , 570, but we reduced it to one group closest to the assembly 15 [ point.
i 16 l JUDGE HOYT: I think, if I recall from the I
17 i pleadings in this case, there were 570 names. There were in 18 ! excess of 500, let me put it that way.
1 19 ! MR. CONNER: Correct. I i
, 20 l JUDGE HOYT: Then could you get those sheets 21 l duplicated and a copy of it forwarded to Mr. Elliott, and a 22 l; copy to Mr. Vogler, and one to Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Hippert? ,
1 23 l MR. CONNER: If we can get some understanding
/~') 24 that LEA is not going to start calling those people LJ 25 : continually as they have been doing with Mr. Wellover and ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. l
! 202 W-3'm Nanenwide Courare . -
I l
5590 01 16 21134 JMimie 1 Mr. Claypool, and have it confined to the proper bounds of 2; some kind of discovery. Because these are hardworking men
- l 3I and have livelihood work to do -- and women.
t l
4j JUDGE HOYT: I'm going to get to establishing a 5i date on which depositions can be taken with your people, 6! Mr. Conner, in a few moments. But first of all, let me i
7j determine that you can get this group of sheets representing l
8! one driver per sheet, I take it --
9 MR. CONNER: Yes, that's right.
10 ! JUDGE HOYT: Then duplicated and forwarded to 11 these parties.
s 12 ; Could you do that in the next few days?
( )
~
13 MR. CONNER: Yes. It is a reproduction job and I i
14 l am not sure whether they have made duplicates already, or I
15 l whether some of them are at headquarters, and some of them I
16 are out at Berwyn and some of them at the training area.
17 I But yes, is the answer to your question.
18 JUDGE HOYT: If you will, Mr. Conner, will you 19 l please have that done. Copies of that list, of all of the i
20 i sheets, forwarded to each of the parties I named oarlier.
t i
21 l And notify this office when that has been accomplished.
22 l MR. CONNER: Right. Do you want me to send -- we 23 l will offer these as exhibits at the hearing. Would you like I
(~
K 24 l me to send the Board copies at the same time?
l 25 I JUDGE HOYT: Yes.
I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
, , , , , , , , m -. c _ . , _
i t
- I 5590 01 17
~
! 21135
/' il
!~ SMimie l MR. CONNER: Okay. It will be sent from 1 :i 2 Philadelphia.
- 3 Do you want three sets?
4! JUDGE HOYT: No, just one set, Mr. Conner. Judge 5f Harbour and I can share one set between us.
h MR. CONNER: Fair enough.
6] i 7l !
MS. MULLIGAN: Judge Hoyt, you didn't mention my 8! name. I would like to get a copy --
9 JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, what I am going to do, i
10 I am going to provide either you or Mr. Elliott. I want to 11 do these things most expeditiously as possible. So each of f
73 12 j the parties will get one. We are not going to serve
\) 13 everybody in sight.
14 , One copy will go to Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Hippert, t
15 one copy will go to either you or Mr. Elliott, and you can 16 ;; tell him who it is you want to get it.
i 17 j MS. MULLIGAN: It will be me.
i 18 JUDGE HOYT: All right. Then Mr. Conner, will you 19 ! please note that.
20 MR. CONNER: I would like to clarify this, 21 ! because I understood that Mr. Elliott was not participating 22 j in this phase of the case.
23 JUDGE HOYT: Well, it is my understanding that he l
/^]
24 j l
was representing LEA for the second PID and for appellate 25 l matters. But we had a call this morning and Mr. Elliott was l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
RTR-347J7ti) Nat%D.iO Ceace Ratk1E(M6
I e
5590 02 01 21136 Mimie 1 asked to be put on this call. And out of courtesy to him I 2 made the exception. '
c 3'f MR. CONNER: Okay. I think we should only have 4 to deal with one spokesman from LEA. But I would rather 5j have Mr. Elliott as the responsible recipient. Because l
6! information that we have tried to communicate to LEA has not 7j gotten there, according to what they told us later.
I 8i JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Conner, I have already had 9 Mr. Elliott instructed that we had his telephone number and i
10 : we have the phone numbers of Mr. Stone and Ms. Mulligan.
11 When we are unable to reach Mr. Stone or Ms. Mulligan, we 12 intend to use his telephone as our contact.
13 MR. CONNER: Fine.
I 14 JUDGE HOYT: The Board, too, has had the same 15 problem in trying to locate these people and has been unable 16 to do so.
l 17 MR. CONNER: We will send -- to make sure the i
18 j record is clear on this -- we will send these exhibits to 1 19 ! Maureen Mulligan at the LEA address in Pottstown. I 20 MS. MULLIGAN: That's correct. Thank you.
21 JUDGE HOYT: Yes. That is where they want them 1
22 j sent. i l
23 Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Hippert are in Harrisburg
(~j) 24 j together, and share the one copy. I
~ '
25 ' MR. GOODWIN: That is correct.
l l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
m m,_ .
_ _ m. m.,_ _
l 5590 02 02 21137
/~
L_)/Mimie 1 MS. MULLIGAN: Judge Hoyt, there is another i
2i preliminary matter which would very much help us be able to 3l t do -- to put together the best case, would be a list of the 4 companies, bus companies, the other bus companies that 5i Mr. Bigelow referred to in his affidavit.
6l JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, you know that
)
7l Mr. Bigelow is a County official, and you can certainly I
8 contact him yourself. I don't think we need to intercede 9 through you from either the Staff or the Applicant to do 10 that.
11 MS. MULLIGAN: Fine. I just thought because he 12 was PECO's witness, I thought maybe I had to --
0 13 l JUDGE HOYT: He was not PECO's witness. That was i
14 ' the point that was made earlier. He was the Commonwealth's 15 witness.
16 All right, that answers that question. Anything 17 else?
I 18 MR. CONNER: May I, for the record, object to 19 Ms. Mulligan's request in that area, because I want to make 20 clear that we consider that far beyond any relevancy to the 21 remanded issue.
22 JUDGE HOYT: Oh, Mr. Conner, we have moved past 23 that point. Let's get on with the other things that we need 24 to do.
{
25 You will get this list out as soon as possible, ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347-3700 Nationwide Cover m _ _ 800 036-6666 ,
3 5590 02 03 21138 Mimie 1 and I would hope that looking at the calendar, that we could 2 do that no later than July 25. That gives you a week in 9 {
3 order to get those listed.
MR. CONNER: Just for the record, my intention is 4l 5 to have a set of these delivered to LEA's of fice much, much 6j sooner than that and to get a receipt for it. Then deliver 7ll it to the other parties in due course. Certainly by that 8i date.
l 9l JUDGE HOYT: All right.
l 10 ! Now we will have, I take it, some canned 11 testimony, Mr. Conr.ar, as well for Boyer, Bradshaw, 12 ! Cunningham and possibly Bigelow.
13 When do you think you could have that available?
14 l MR. CONNER: We are at a loss as to know really l
15 I what LEA wants to talk about. So we would present our basic I
i 16 I.
evidence on how these volunteers were lined up and put that 17 li in a document which te should be able to submit in -- well, I '
18 i let's see, the hearing is the 18th -- by about the 10th.
19 Maybe before then. I I
20 I JUDGE HOYT: All right.
21 MR. CONNER: People are out on vacation and hard to reach.
22 l 23 JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, how many of your
(} 24 witnesses could you have canned testimony prepared for by l 25 the 10th of August l
l l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
5590 02 04 - 21139 i- i l_)Mimie 1, MS. MULLIGAN: Well, of the ones that I have identified -- this is tentative -- I imagine unless they are i 2l -
i 3 on vacation --
4l ?
JUDGE HOYT: Yes, I understand.
5l MS. MULLIGAN: I expect that based on a 6 phonecall, I could defer that for you, and f rom those two --
7 JUDGE HOYT: I would like to have all the 8 prefiled testimony in hand to the parties by August the 9h 10th. That will give you a solid week to review the 10 l testimony. And the list will be in everyone's hands no i
11 i later than July 25th. By list, of course, I mean the list 12 of drivers and whatever it is that is on that particular (E) l 13 sheet. So that everyone will have well in advance of the 14 hearing the necessary material.
15 ! MS. MULLIGAN: I don't mean to be difficult, but 16 , I am going to be at a wedding in Florida, the 8th through 17 l!
I the 12th of August.
18 JUDGE HOYT: Well, I am not sure, Ms. Mulligan, 19 how to respond to that. You know, have a nice time.
20 ! MS. MULLIGAN: Well, I thank you for that. I am l
I 21 l just saying that considering on the 25th we are just getting 22 ahold of the list, I just --
23 JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, that is next Friday.
24 MS. MULLIGAN: Right.
(}
25 JUDGE HOYT: You want me to take into ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347-3700 Nationwide Coserage 80433HM6
h e
5590 02 05 21140 l
(~'; ' t L/Mimie 1' consideration the fact that you are going to a wedding, when !
N 6 e
{ *.
2' I am trying to move forward with a proceeding in which a .
3l i great many people are involved with large amounts of 4l financial responsibilities out there -- I'm sorry, I just
)
5! cannot accommodate that.
6, Now the testimony will be in on August 10th; the 7 list will be in your hands -- that is list of drivers again i
8- -- no later than July 25th. Mr. Conner seemed to indicate i
9 that he would get it to you even sooner.
10 I Let me find out from you, Mr. Hippert and i
11 i Mr. Goodwin, is there any problem with your testimony being i
1
,_ > by that date?
12 l
(-)
l MR. GOODWIN: No, your Honor. We can meet that 13 l i
14 i date.
l I
15 l JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
i 16 l MR. VOGLER: I will be in touch with FEMA this 17 l afternoon. They are waiting to hear from me. And we will 18 l make every effort to meet that date as well.
19 ; JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
I 20 I All right. I think we have got everyone now 21 ! plugged into the dates.
I 22 ! Is there any other problem that we might need to i
23 j make --
l i l (^] 24 l MR. CONNER: If the Board please, I want to make l l R/ .
l I
25 ; sure that the record is clear.
l l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
SrtAfm.TWD NhwMh hvmage M33(>6646
1 5590 02 06 i
! 21141 (m ?)
L)Mimie 1 3 You have said " lists of drivers," and I thought 2! what we were going to list is the volunteer sheet on each i J
3s driver.
4 JUDGE HOYT: Yes. I think, perhaps, Mr. Conner, a
5! I have misspoken. And that is certainly what I intended to s
6j convey. By list I mean the list of sheets, the sheets of 7 driver information you have, and what I understood you to 8i say is raw forms at this point in time. And then all of I
9 these 500-odd sheets would be reproduced and this raw data 10 forwarded to the parties so that they would know who the 11 I drivers are on the list of those that will participate for 12 l PECO.
13 p Have I covered it all?
14 MR. CONNER: That is correct. And I will restate 15 what you touched on a minute ago, that because of LEA's past 16 practices, I intend to have a set delivered to its 17 l headquarters and get a receipt for this material today, if l
possible. Because I don't want them to have any further 18 l 19 excuse for delay, certainly by July 25th.
20 l MR. VOGLER: Judge Hoyt, I don't know whether we I
i 21 ' are all looking at the calendar or not, but the 10th is a Sunday --August the 10th, the prefiling date. It should 22 l 1
23 ' either be the 8th or the lith, I would think.
{} 24 JUDGE HOYT: All right. I'm not sure why we said 25 ' the 10th now. Perhaps I was looking at the wrong calendar.
i l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
1 20>347-3700 Nationwide Coserage 800 336-6M6
i i
i 5590 02 07 21142 Mimie 1 Let's make it the lith, then. That will give you 2l the weekend.
I 3l MR. VOGLER: That will be fine.
4 MR. CONNER: I think I got this correct in my l
5l notes from either Mr. Elliott or Ms. Mulligan when she said 6I it. Do I understand the only two witnesses that have been 7 identified are Dr. Claypool and Dr. Wellover?
MS. MULLIGAN: At this time, yes, because until I 8l 9 get lists and more information, that is who I can identify 10 l at this time. Yes.
b 11 l MR. CONNER: If they feel that the solution 12 proposed is satisfactory do you still plan to call them 13 , anyway?
14 MR. ELLIOTT: What? I don't understand the 15 question.
16 MR. CONNER: Let me give you a little 17 background. The EC individuals have, of course, as part of 18 ' their routine duties, talked to both school districts, and 19 have been informed that LEA representatives had talked to 20 both Dr. Claypool and Dr. Wellover, who have advised you 21 that they are satisfied with our solution.
And I am asking, if this is'so, do you still 22 l I
23 intend to call them as witnesses?
(} 24 MR. ELLIOTT: Ms. Mulligan, you will have to 25 l respond to that.
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
M 147-1500 ?"ationdde C& erase f3 M R M N "5 i
h P
5590 02 08 21143 I1"') Mimie 1l MS. MULLIGAN: Right.
2 Well, at this time I can't tell you that. Partly '
3* because my conversations with them have not indicated that i
- 4) they are satisfied. And EC might have another opinion of i
5 that, but that is at this point their opinion.
I 6; So at this stage, yes.
k' 7 MR. CONNER: For the record, it is not an 8 opinion. Dr. Wellover so communicated to Mr. Bigelow 9l yesterday.
10 i MS. MULLIGAN: That's your opinion.
11 l MR. ELLIOTT: I just have one question.
I gm. The purpose in seeking the volunteer forms for 12 f b the employees was to be able to identify employees for 13 l i
14 ! purposes of determining their willingness to volunteer and I
15 so on for the purposes that I mentioned before.
16 What I would like to know from Mr. Conner is i
17 'j whether those volunteer forms sufficiently identify the 0
18 l individuals so that we may, in fact, contact them?
l 19 MR. CONNER: I have already stated that I would 20 l object to any practice whereby LEA would call these people l
21 l and harass them. I said if you can come up with some idea 22 j of some random sampling that might work out very well.
I 23 l I also said we do not intend to produce 500-plus ID 24 individuals in depositions because it would so delay the
(_/
i 25 l case.
I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
,,, , , m me c_ -
5590 02 09 21144
[ ~
h 'Mimie 1 MR. ELLIOTT: Judge Hoyt?
JUDGE HOYT: Just a moment, Mr. Elliott, and then '
2l 3' we will get right back to you.
4 Mr. Conner, you do understand though, when I said l
5l I want those sheets, all of the sheets, I meant all 500-odd 6i sheets that you have prepared.
i 7i MR. CONNER: Right.
l 88 JUDGE HOYT: Now, Mr. Elliott, go ahead.
4 9: MR. ELLIOTT: My question is, do the sheets reflect the name, at least the name and address of the 10 l 11 l volunteers?
I r^ 12 I MR. CONNER: They certainly reflect the names,
(-) i 13 l and they reflect the address. But I frankly don't remember l
14 , whether they are home addresses or business addresses.
l MR. ELLIOTT: My only concern is, obviously, a 15 l 16 name without any kind of address would make it impossible I
l 17 i for us to --
l 18 l MR. CONNER: No, no. Believe me, you can call 1
the company and we hope you would come out to interview them 19 l 20 ' individually.
l 21 MR. ELLIOTT: You will make PECO's facilities l
i l l 22 available for that purpose?
l 23 MR. CONNER: We will not. If you want to take f'l 24 ! depositions, if you want to produce the reporter and do it wJ l 25 l as discovery requires. We do not want LEA harassing our i
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
. - , . , , s -_ _
4 5590 02 10 . 21145 I
(~' .
i/ Mimie 1; employees by calling them in the middle of the night, calls
!i 2l like that and so forth. '
3 ,
MR. ELLIOTT: Of course not.
l 4 MR. CONNER: You have done it before.
5f MR. ELLIOTT: Judge Hoyt, for the record may I 6; state that it is not LEA's intention to harass PECO's 7l employees by calling them at odd hours.
t 8 But I must say that I am confused, because I 9i thought that Mr. Conner said just a minute ago that he would 10 hope that we would come out to the plant to interview the i
11 ! employees. Now I am confused, because now Mr. Conner says 12 i he will not make employees available for us for interviews.
(3_) ;
13 ' MR. CONNER: That was a personal aside that I 14 j should not have made, and I apologize to the Board, saying 15 that the employee's attitude toward LEA might make them wish 16 they had not come out, i
17 To restate my position clearly, we object to any 18 attempt to interrogate all of these witnesses. We have no 19 objection to some kind of a random sampling to produce two 20 l or three, something, some sample of these individuals I
21 i selected by .r,EA to be depcsed when LEA, under the rules of 22 discovery, sets up deposition and a court reporter and so 23 forth, at a time that we can produce the individual.
() 24 MR. ELLIOTT: That is fine with LEA, Judge Hoyt.
25 We don't acre to interrogate 570 people. That would be, I l
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
,,c- ~,-+~- --
i r
5590 02 11 21146 2 dMimie 1 would think, rather pointless.
MR. CONNER: Can we agree on a number that you 2[ {
3 want to talk to?
4 MR. ELLIOTT: Probably ten.
5 MR CONNER: I don't know.
6! MR. ELLIOTT: All right, make it twenty.
i 7 MR. CONNER: If I saw a purpose for it, I don't 8l object to any.
l 9 MR. VOGLER: It seems to me that we are beating 10 ! it to death. I think that we have arranged an approach I
11 l whereby LEA and the Licensee can get together and agree on l
12 ! random sampling so that they can interview these people.
13 Troy, are all of these people connected with l
14 Limerick, or just with the Philadelphia Electric Company?
15 MR. CONNER: Just PE. They have various jobs.
16 i MR. VOGLER: They are not all out of Limerick?
17 MR. CONNER: My guess _is very few of them arc 18 from Limerick as such. A great number of them are from the I
19 l transportation center at Berwyn, bring out a lot of 20 i equipment. And that is where they would be.
I 21 I would suggest if LEA comes up with a sample 22 , that they want to depose, that you list an alternate, 23 , because some of these individuals that you happen to pick --
(] 24 maybe his wife is sick, having a baby. Any number of things 25 could happen. So, if you pick them at random, pick an i
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
J _ _ _ _
I i;
1
!I 5590 02 12 1 21147 1
Mimie 1 alternate. If we can't get Mr. A, maybe Mr. A-prime can 2 appear.
t 3t JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, let me inquire of you, t
4l out of 570 --I'm not really that familiar with the sampling 5l !
techniques to know what a good percentage would be. It 6k seems to me that anything like 1 percent would be pretty I
7' good for that large a group of people.
8j Would a 1 percent sampling be sufficient for your 9j purposes?
I 10 i MR. ELLIOTT: That seems awfully low. I said l
11 l ten, and I really meant ten.
S g- 12 l JUDGE HOYT: Did you mean 10 percent?
\_- !
13 ! MR. ELLIOTT: No, ten people.
14 JUDGE HOYT: Ten persons?
15 MR. ELLIOTT: Yes.
16 I
17 !
18 19 ;
20 '
21 l l
22 l 23 f) v 24 ,
25 !
l l
l l
I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
__ _ m,_
5590 03 01 '
21148 i
MMbw 1l JUDGE HOYT: Then Mr. Elliott, when the list of i
2l persons is prepared, relayed to Mr. Conner, that these are I
3! the ones that you want to speak with, then would you give i
4l him 15 names, in which you can draw from 10 that would be i
5! available, understanding that the availability would hinge 1
- 6) upon whether or not the person had some other impediment due i
to illness of family or personal illness.
7l ;
8l MR. ELLIOTT: May I respond to that?
9 I think I can satisfy the problem of potential 10 unavailability, but I think I would rather do it in a little bit of a different way.
11 f 12 If I give 15 names, and PECO gets a chance to 13 select 10, that gives control to Philadelphia Electric l
l 14 Company of the people who I'm going to see.
15 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, I don't think you hear'd 16 a word I said.
17 i What I said to you was, if you give them more l
18 i than 10 names, and that the 10 persons that would be I
19 ultimately set up for you to interview in a deposition would 20 be the 10 that would be available, because they could not 21 appear, they were impaired by either personal health 22 problems or family health problems er away in Florida, 23 anything that would be those 10 persons that would be off of 24
(]) that' list.
I 25 I don't think that that is an undue mechanism ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
l 5590 03 02 I 21149 MMbw 1i for giving those licensees an undue control of the people.
i 2 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, I may be able
{
, 3 to solve this --
4 JUDGE HOYT: Let me finish with Mr. Elliott, 5 Mr. Conner, then we'll go back to you, i
6 All righht, Mr. Elliott, make your point.
7 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
8l What I was going to suggest was, if we give the 9 company 10 names, then if we are advised that one or more of i
10 i those people are not available, then, say, we simply choose l
11 l: one more name, or if there are two people unavailable, then 1
12 l we choose two more names and communicate them.
13 I JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, I'm not going to have a 14 game of musical chairs. You give him a list of 15 names, 15 and those -- from those 15 names, 10 of those persons 16 available. You start out with one, Mr. Conner, you go two, 17 three. If two is not available, then you go to three. So 18 you have 11 names, if only one of the persons that is number 19 2 on the list is unavailable.
20 i Do you understand what I am saying, Mr. Conner?
21 , MR. CONNER: All right. That's what I was going t
I to suggest.
22 l 23 JUDGE HOYT: That's the method we're going to O 24 use, Mr. Elliote. we're not just going to go back and forth 25 i with this.
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
M7 1 t* 1*fV1 %. st aanan. s.la Int ersam SIMLlln.nnJn
i 5590 03 03 21150 I) i l'#MMbw 1i MR. CONNER: If number 2 is not available for 2 some reason, we will state why we went to number 3.
{
3l JUDGE HOYT: Go ahead, Mr. Elliott. Do you have 1
something else?
4l :
I want to make a brief statement 5f MR. ELLIOTT:
6f that LEA objects to that procedure, because it would mean i
that Philadelphia Electric Company would retain control in 7l 8i some way over the actual people to be interviewed.
9 JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Elliott, you still do not listen 10 to anything you're told. I have told you, you can go at 570 names. You can select 15 of them. We're going to toss them 11 l 12 in the bag, and 10 of them will be available. We're going
('))
\_ ! ,
13 i one, two, three, four.
i 14 If you have some preference that you want to go 15 with number 1 rather than number 12, then you put that 16 number 1 name on the top of the list, and the company will 17 go down -- Mr. Conner, you will be sure to let me know and 18 document why it is that the person that was not available --
19 l; if number 1 or number 2 is not available, why are they not 20 ' available?
21 l That's the best I can do for you, Mr. Elliott, 22 ! because I'm not going to play musical chairs with these l
23 l things.
I i
Now Mr. Conner, what do you have?
(s) 24 l 25 MR. CONNER: That's what I was going to suggest, ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
m,..-- ._... . . , , _
I O 03 04 21151 1 MMbw 1. a technique whereby it would happen. And for the record, i
2 let me assure LEA that we are not going to pick and choose '
3! among these people, because we have great confidence, and we 4l and we think LEA would not like their answers.
I 5i In any event, if you're asking me, do we have anything further, I would like to bring up one other matter, 6l 7 if the Board is ready.
8 JUDGE HOYT: I'm ready.
)
9! MR. CONNER: I was going to suggest that, given i
10 ! the fact that this hearing has already been delayed and 11 cannot be held until August 18th, that we make every effort 12 l to, of course, run as long as necessary on the 18th to
[}
13 , finish it, and then that the proposed findings be submitted 14 by each party at the close of the hearing.
15 We will have our basic findings written and 16 l perhaps supplement them orally, if necessary, as we did at i
17 the last hearing, and I think that would be the one way to 18 reach the Appeal Board's desire to have this resolved as 19 quickly as possible.
i 20 j JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, do you have any 21 l problems with him doing that?
22 MS. MULLIGAN. Yes, we do.
23 Part of it is just right now, we haven't even
() 24 l i
clearly identified who all the people are, except, of 25 course, for the two that we mentioned that we have to call.
I i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERSdNC.
i I
i 5590 03 05 21152 i
MMbw 1I And at that point, it's just, I guess --
1 2! JUDGE HOYT: I tell you what the Board can do. '
3s I'll give you some help on that, Ms. Mulligan, and that is, l
4l if you do not want to prepare your finding, written findings i
5l on the day on which we close the hearing, then we will take 6 them by oral submission at the conclusion of all the 7 testimony.
8! Will that help you at all?
l 9' MS. MULLIGAN: I would like to defer to 10 Mr. Elliott. -
11 MR. ELLIOTT: I would just like to make a 12 comment.
(~~}
\J 13 It is very easy for the Applicants and the NRC to 14 propose findings based upon prefiled testimony, so that 15 those proposed findings can be submitted at the close of the 16 l hearing, but for any proposed findings which may rest upon 17 cross-examination of witnesses, it's obviously impossible to i
18 prepare written findings for submission at the close of the 19 l hearing, based upon any cross-examination. While the i
arrangements for submission of oral findings or findings of 20 l 21 fact orally at the close of the hearing, at least give some 22 opportunity for findings, based upon cross-examination, it 23 does not permit -- presuming it's a one-day hearing, we
() 24 j I
won't even have the transcript available.
25 ' .
So it really makes it quite impossible to 1
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
5 0 03 06 21153 2 MMbw 1 propose findings based upon cross-examination of witnesses 2 during the hearing, and we think it really {
i 3l unreasonably restricts our ability for proposed findings.
4 I think it would be reasonable to give us at 5l least a couple of days to review the transcript, and on that I
6i basis, to prepare findings.
i MR. VOGLER: In writing?
7l i
JUDGE HOYT: Let me go ahead, Mr. Vogler, then 8l 9k I'll get right back to you, please.
O 10 ! Mr. Elliott, do you think that if were to 11 I complete the hearing on the 18th, as we apparently feel that
/~3 12 > we could, you would then be able to get in hand to us the V l 13 l submission of your proposed findings and conclusions of law 14 l by the following Monday, which would be August 25?
15 l MR. ELLIOTT: I think that would be reasonable.
l 16 I MS. MULLIGAN: In the mail, not in hand.
17 l JUDGE HOYT: I'm talking about in-hand delivery, 18 E one week from that day, Ms. Mulligan.
i 19 l MS. MULLIGAN: I would object to that and say 20 mail that day, because I need the weekend. I'm working a j
21 ; full-time job, and I need the weekend --
l '
22 l JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, you keep interposing I
23 ! these personal problems that I'm afraid we just can't help I
p) 24 l you with. We can accommodate a lot of things, but we are 25 ; trying to work out a very complicated proceeding, and I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
f
!i 5590 03 07 l . 21154 l
MMbw 1j just -- I'm af raid we just can' t accommodate personal 2l i preferences. {
3l .
MS. MULLIGAN: Judge Hoyt, I just think for a 4[ responsible kind of response, you have to give some reasonable hours to work on that, and I would appreciate it 5l 6 greatly, if you would consider that over the weekend, we can 7 get that in the mail.
8l MR. ELLIOTT: Judge Hoyt, how about Express Mail 9; for arrival on the 26th in the morning?
l 10 JUDGE HOYT: ' Arrival on the 26th?
11 MR. ELLIOTT: Yes.
12 JUDGE HOYT: All right. We can take mail. I 13 ' don't think that's a problem.
14 MS. MULLIGAN: Thank you.
15 JUDGE HOYT: All right.
16 Now if the hearing were to be concluded on the 17 li 22nd of August, the followi,. week would be the 29th -- they l
18 l would be due on August 29, 1986.
I 19 j MR. ELLIOTT: Rig ht'.
20 l MR. CONNER: If the Board please, could I be 21 l heard on that?
l 22 ; JUDGE HOYT: Yes.
23 MR. CONNER: If it were necessary to go over to
() 24 l the 22nd, LEA, either by Mr. Elliott or some other 25 representative of LEA, could prepare the basic findings ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
l 90 03 08 21155 3 MMbw 1 from the Monday hearing, because what would be left over i
0 2! from Friday, surely could not be very much. So I would ;
3I submit that the same due dates be applied, and it would i
4! provide Ms. Mulligan her weekend.
1 5! I JUDGE HOYT: We're going to leave the dates 6i August 26th and August 29th, Mr. Conner, that it be in-hand l
7l to the Board on August 29th, Ms. Mulligan, Mr. Elliott, and 8l the reason is, that following Monday is Labor Day.
l 9f MR. ELLIOTT: We understand. Thank you.
I 10 ' JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Vogler, if possible, may I talk 11 with you now.
12 MR. VOGLER: Yes, you may.
[}
I 13 ' JUDGE HOYT: Go ahead. You wanted to interject 14 something a moment ago, and I asked you to hold on just a 15 moment, while I went through the dates for the findings.
16 g Did you have anything else?
17 f MR. VOGLER: No, I don't, your Honor. It was 18 answered in the conversation between you and Mr. Elliott and 19 l Mr. Conner.
20 ' JUDGE HOYT: All right; fine.
21 You don't have any problems with those dates?
i 22 i MR. VOGLER: The Staff has no problems.
23 l JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
() 24 I
Is there anything else that we need to discuss?
i 25 MR. ELLIOTT: No.
l l . ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
5590 03 09 21156 i
MMbw 1! MR. CONNER: No.
I '
2' MS. MULLIGAN: No.
I .'
3 MR. VOGLER: No.
4 Is that you too, Mr. Hippert?
I 5 MR. HIPPERT: Nothing else.
JUDGE HOYT: Very well.
6l 7 We will now conclude this telephone call.
8l If you want to hold this line open for any l
9 purposes among the parties, we will not turn it off. We 10 l will simply eliminate our participation in it.
I 11 MR. CONNER: If the Board please, may I may one 12 last point?
13 The State did not identify Mr. Campbell as one of 14 its witnesses, and we don't believe there is any real need 15 for either Mr. Campbell or Mr. Bigelow to testify, since 16 their affidavits are already on file. But I simply identify 17 this, because if something comes up at the last minute, I 18 may have to request subpoenas for both of them.
19 l JUDGE HOYT: Mr. Goodwin, are you with us?
l 20 l MR. HIPPERT: Mr. Goodwin had to leave.
21 JUDGE HOYT: You're going to be the only witness 22 for the Commonwealth; is that right?
23 MR. HIPPERT: As we see it; yes.
() 24 i
MR. CONNER: I understand. I'm just identifying 25 l this, so LEA or somebody won't claim surprise.
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
. . . . , _ .. .- . _ , , ~ . .
l i
l 5 90 03 10 p 21157 i
2 MMbw 1! MS. MULLIGAN: Your Honor, I'd like to also i
I '
2l reserve the right to subpoena, if we need to, based on new l
3i information, or if we decide we want to call Mr. Campbell, 4I in particular.
I 5l JUDGE HOYT: Ms. Mulligan, any of the rights provided for you by the rules of the Commission will, of 6>l 7h course, be observed 8, Anything else, Mr. Vogler?
I 9l MR. VOGLER: No, ma'am.
10 JUDGE HOYT: Thank you.
11 I take it, Mr. Conner, that was your last l
12 response a while ago.
[} i 13 i Mr. Hippert has nothing more, Ms. Mulligan, 14 Mr. Elliott, you have nothing more to offer at this time?
15 MS. MULLIGAN: No, your Honor.
16 I JUDGE HOYT: Very well. Thank you very much for 17 your time.
18 And Mimie, thank you for your consideration.
19 ; Appreciate it a lot. I hope we didn't talk over you too i
20 l much.
21 l (Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the telephonic
! l 22 I conference was ccucluded.)
I l
23
() 24 25 l l I l
1 m
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. j
CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER O
This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY (Limerick Generating Station, Units 1 and 2)
DOCKET NO.: 50-352 OL; 50-353 OL PLACE: WASHINGTON, D. C.
O DATE: THURSDAY, JULY 17, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
. A2 -
(sigt _ _
MF (TYPED) j MIMIE MELTZER Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTEPS, li1C .
Peporter's Affiliation O
l
---s , - - - - , , -
y,m- - , - - - . - - - - - , . - - , - . - - - - - _ - , _ ,e - .- - - - . - - - , - - . , - - _ ,m - , - - - -,.
g-.,