ML20078L654
| ML20078L654 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Catawba  |
| Issue date: | 05/20/1983 |
| From: | Hoopingarner N PALMETTO ALLIANCE |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20078L617 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-83-434 NUDOCS 8310240024 | |
| Download: ML20078L654 (109) | |
Text
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UNITED STATES OF A*1 ERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY CO01ISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD In the Matter oft ) Docket Nos.
) -
DUKE POWER CC51PANY, et al ) 50-413 (Catawba Nuclear Station ) 50-414 Units 1 & 2) )
I,, Barbara V. Haas, Commissioner and Notary Public, proceeded to take the deposition of Nolan Richard Hoopingarner, II, on the twentieth day of May,1983, beginning at 6:15 o' clock P.M. in the offices of Duke Power Company, South f V Church Street, Charlotte, North Carolina.
Duke Power Company was represented by Albert V.
Carr, Jr., Ronald Gibson and Mike McGarey.
NRC was represented by George Johnson.
Palmetto Alliance, Inc. was represented by Robert Guild and Michael Lowe.
CONTINUATION OF THE DEPOSITION OF NOLAN RICHARD HOOPINGARNER, II 44o. Colvd Rd i Associatec -e, Chulotte NC. zazzz w
Court Reporters ,o 364 . ,,.
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f4 j NOLAN R. HOOPINGARNER, II, being first duly sworn, testified 2 as follows:
3 EXAMINATION: (By Mr . McGarey 4 Q. This is the continuation of the deposition of Mr.
5 Hoopingarner which was adjounred early.this morning.
6 The court reporter has returned home to her f amily, and 7 ,
we are fortunate to have Barbara Haas here to continue 8 with his deposition. Mr. Hoopingarner, I believe we 9 concluded ,early this morning your statement of concerns, io and I now would like to pursue additional areas of inquiry.
1 How did you come to be involved in this case?
12 A. I was working out there.
13 Q. I don' t believe you understood. How did you come t'o 14 be involved --
'. 15 A. In being an intervenor?
16 Q. That's correct.
t7 A. It's when I went down for the rate hike hearing in June, is the thirteenth, I believe it is, in 1980. I saw Mr. Guild 19 in the elevator and talked to him pertaining to some of the 2o things that was going on. He instructed me to go and talk 21 to Palmetto Alliance which there was somebody else in charge 22 at that time, but I talked to Michael Lowe; and I talked 23 to him and shhared some things with him. Then, whenever 24 Duke 'ower pulled the things that they did to me out there, 25 and it was time to be -- to get my knowledge that I know of 2
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I what all went on out there to be brought up to the public 2 .
and to the NRC and to everybody else.
3 Q. During the course of this deposition, I'm going to 4
at times step in and try to channel tHe response -- no 5 criticism intended. But, yesterday I asked one question, 6 and I think you went on for over an hour. In the interest f here, 7 ,of time and the interest of getting you in and out o e
I have no intention of dragging this deposition on, and 9 my que stion --
10 A. I enj6y to share it.
n O. I understand that, but there are certain things we would 12 like to hear and certain things, with all due respect, aren't is necessar ily relevant in our particular judgment. In the 14 interest of time and it will be of assistance to you, we
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will just press on. The question I have here is that the 8
15 16 petition to intervene was filed in July of 1981. What 17 caused you to participate in July of 1981. Is there any it particular event?
A. I wanted to intervene. I wanted to share the knowledge 19 20 that I have and the documents I had.
. 21 Q. Let me hand you a document, Mr. Hoopingarner --
22 A. I would like to have it on record also from last night, 23 I did not have my records; so, everything, dates and stuff 24 like that could be off a little bit because I was going 25 strictly by memory. Tonight I do have my documents to show 3
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/* 1 the dates and stuff.
2 .Q. Those are your documents?
3 A. Yes, s ir.
4 Q. You have kept them at home?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Were you ever asked by Palmetto Alliance whether or 7 .not you had any documents?
8 A. Not that I can remember.
9 Q. I hand you this document here which is the original I just ask you to read 10 contentiod'6ofPalmettoAlliance.
11 it.
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Are you f amiliar with bhat contention?
NV 14 A. Yes, sir.
g Did you assist in the formulation of t at h con ention? t 15 Q.
16 A. Yes, tr.
17 Q. Can you explain how you assisted in the f ormulation of 18 that contention?
19 A. I was one of the workers that witnessed the substandard 20 workmanship and poor quality control in my opinion of the 21 NRC regulations that were suppose to be enforced out there 22 that it seemed to me that the NRC inspector walked around 23 with horse blinders on not seeing the things that I pointed 24 out to him in that two and a half bours that I shared with 25 him of taking him around because that stuff was going on 4
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[# 1 every day, every month, every year.
2 0 I believe you shared some of that with us last night.
3 A. Yec, s ir .
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Does this contention properly ref1'ect your views?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Let me ask you some of the terms. Substandard workman-Q.
7 . ship, what do you mean by substandard workmanship?
8 A. Individuals that I knew that was welders, that was 9 pipe fitters was doing drugs, drunk was coming in in the 10 morning. .hhey vould come in that way. They would go out 11 at lunch time and get high. They would come back in --
12 0 I'm trying to be broader. I believe, again, you shared 13 some of those examples with us, and we will get into those W Id later. We'll get into them. But, as a general sense, is is it f air to say the performance of work that in your view 16 wasn' t up to quality, wasn' t a first rate job?
17 A. I had welders -- yes, sir , because I had welders tell 18 me they would just fill a hole because they did not like 19 to be up forty feet and have to hook off to a temporary 20 hanger. They couldn' t do quality wor k, so they just filled
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21 a gap.
l Can you, 22 Q. How about the term " poor quality control."
23 in a broad sense, tell me what you m en by that term?
24 A. The construction procedures of CP 170 and CP 371 where 25 the storage of material, the building of scaffolds on 5
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1 pipe and so-called --
2 Q. Not following procedures, is that what you are saying?
3 A. Yes, sir .
4 Q. Is that what you mean by poor quality control?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Anything else by poor quality control or is that 7 .what we are talking about?
8 A. Pretty much so that's what we are talking about.
9 Q. One other term. Company pressure, what do you mean by 10 that? .
11 A. Well, I was pressured to keep my mouth shut and com-12 plaining about all the safety hazards out there on the job, 13 and building scaffolds that was incorrect, unsafe. These Y 14 individuals had to get up there and try to do quality work 15 off of them.
16 Q. Again, that's an example. What do you mean by company 17 pressure. Do you mean Duke Power Company management pres-18 suring you or do you mean your supervisor, the head of your 19 cr ew?
20 A. I had several employees. I had R. R. Pelfry, 21 Q. He is a supervisor?
22 A. He was my for eman. I had R. H. McDowell which was 23 my general foreman at that time. I had John Scruggs which 24 was craf t superintendant, Doug Beam which was proj ect 25 manager, Frank Cantrell which I was transferred out to the 6
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(* I cooling towers which was my f oreman at that time, Olin 2 Durham which was my general foreman at that time. I 3 talked to Cecil Wall and I shared all this stuff with him, 4 and it boiled down that -- Doug Beam s' aid, "You made your 5 complaint to OSHA, you've made your complaints to NRC. Now, 6 its time to get back to work."
7 .Q. I understand that, but again, the term " company pressure" 8 you are suggesting that employees, foremen, general foremen, 9 ._craf t superintendent, project managers, all --
10 A. Pressdred me.
11 Q. Pressured you?
12 A. To bridle my lip, and that's what R. H. McDowell said.
13 They were going to put that letter on me to bridle my lip, hv 14 and I do have that letter if you would like to see it.
s 15 Q. Company pressure, do you mean by that term pressure 16 on any other individuals or do you mean with respect to 17 your testimony pressure on you?
18 A. I'm'not sure on that one.
19 Q. If it will help --
20 A. Because I was pressured, and I know there was some other 21 individuals that was pressured on, say, scaf fold building, 22 on the pipes, this type of stuf f.
23 Q. Her e's what I want. I'm talking to you today, and I 24 want to know what you feel, but if you -- or what you know, 25 and what you know to be fact.
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' 9' 1 A. Yes. sir.
2 Q.
With respect to how you feel, that's a f act to you, But, do you know as a f act whether 3 so we can discuss that.
Have other people d or not other people have been pressurdd.
5 told you they have been pressured?
6 A. Yes, sir, I have had them tell me that.
7 .Q. What people?
s A. I know them by f act, but I don' t know them by name.
9 Q. Who pressured them?
10 A. It wa[ their management, their for emen.
11 Q. Do you know what specific foremen, what specific manage-12 ment?
13 A. No, sir, see, I was traveling all through the auxiliary kW 14 building . We served every craf t that was in there.
to ask -
15 Q. As a matter of testifying, if someone were 16 you to prove there was company pressure speaking for your-17 self, is if fair to say you would rely on your own personal 18 experience?
19 A. Yes, sir , and the documents that I have to prove that l
20 I was; but I can' t prove that, you kno,/ that you were l I 21 pressured by the company because it was you telling me.
22 can only take your word. It depends on how you stand behind 23 your own word.
24 Q.
That was the sense I was trying to get your understanding 25 of company pressures.
6 W
4
e s 9- 1 A. Yes, sir.
~2 . Q. So, in conclu sion, I understand your sense of company 3 pressure as you would use it means how you were pressured?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Turn to that last page. I ask you to read the inden-6 tation about five lines from the bottom, and I represent 7 .to you that that is the contention 6 as revised by the 8 licensing board. Wbuld you read that?
9 A. Yes, sir, I read it.
10 Q. Are y5u familiar with that contention?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Does it reflect your views?
13 A. Yes, sir.
'W 14 Q. There's a term in that contention, the term " systematic 15 deficiencies." What do you mean by that term?
16 A. They would be electrical cables that has to operate 17 the machinery within that plant that I shared with you 18 last night that I saw laying all over the floor, laying in 19 water , we were dropping four by six's on it, pipers were 20 dropping their big pipes on it. Some of the scaffolds that
' 21 was built, the individuals told me themselves that they l
22 .
just filled the gap because they aren' t going to kill 23 theirselves or break their back out of place for this dumb 24 nuclear plant.
25 Q. Any other instances of systematic deficiencies?
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-1 A. Diesel generator when it got floeded out.
2 ,
O. Any.other examples?
3 A. Control room when it got flooded out. I wouldn't call 4
4 it flooded out. It just rained through the concrete and 5 fell all over the control room panels.
6 Q. I'm just trying to get a list of what you think are 7 ,
systematic deficiencies as opposed to isolated instances.
8 A. Okay, the valves being put in backwards, the misaligning 9 of pipe. ,
to Q. Anythi'ng else?
n A. Not at this time.
12 Q. Let's go through; electrical cables laying on the floor.
13 What area was that?
/ 14 A. You could just about classify all throughout, the 15 auxiliary building on number 1 side.
16 Q Were you working in that area?
17 A. Yes, sir, all floors.
Is Q. Were you --
19 A. All the way from 522 all the way up to 5 97.
20 Q. In every area that you were working, you saw electrical 21 cables on the floor?
22 A. Yes, s ir.
23 Q. And , you saw people dropping --
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. In every single area?
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- f 1 A. Yes, sir, there was a routine.
2 Q. What kind of cables were they?
3 A. Th y were the electrical cables that run out of the 4
cable trays that had a little plastic ' number, paper, that 5 was taped on to them. They would be rolled up and would 6
like Come out of the Cable trays and laying on the ground, 7
.and they are the same ones that I showed Mr. Maxwell.
8 Q. What did he say about them?
9 A. He just took the number on that and he didn't say any-10 thing to de particularly.
11 Q. Do you know if he pursued the matter?
12 A. That's a question I would like to ask him because I 13 don' t think he did because it never showed up within the l 9
14 NRC report that Mr. Bryant signed. I think that was 08.
15 I have it.
16 Q. You mentioned scaffolds and filling the gap. What do 17 you mean by that?
18 !
A. We didn't have all of the time the proper material to 19 build our scaffolds. In many of the areas, there wasn ' t 20 any way to build scaffolds except to put our boards up on 21 the pipes or in the cable trays. You take feed water pump 22 room, the penetration rooms, all that area in there is 23 nothing but filled up with pipe scattered all over the 24 place and there's no other way except to put -- we were told 25 to put our boards up there. At one time, we were told we
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i could put them up there and tie them with our 9 wire if 2 we would put like a burlap bag or something underneath so 3 it wouldn't scratch the pipe. That only lasted about a 4
week, and it was too much of a hassle 'for everybody to do 5 it.
6 0 So, you are saying that that is a systematic deficiency, 7 ,the construction of the scaffolding?
8 A. Well, it walks hand in hand because you have certain 9
individuals who don't like to have their feet off the 10 ground, a,nd you take those individuals and when you are a 11 welder and you drop that shield down in front of your face 12 and you don't see nothing but that arc that's going on, and
, 13 you take a board and put it up ten to forty feet off the k# 14 ground and you tell him to hook off to that little temporary 15 hanger; and they are an individual where their foreman has is got a thorn in the flesh for, and he sends him up there 17 and he won't go up there and they write him up to get rid is of him, so he has to go up there and he gets up there and 19 fills the gap, fills that hole and gets back down.
20 Q. What area are we talking about. You mentioned the 21 feed water pump room and penetration room?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Any other areas?
24 A. That's on all elevations, even through the rest of the 25 auxiliary building.
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S, Did you observe welders filling' the gap?
1 Q.
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Do you know if these welds were proper welds?
I 4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Diesel gener ators , what was that about? You mentioned 6 diesel generators a minute ago?
7 .A. It got flooded out.
8 Q. When was this?
9 A. I don't knca the date, but it's in the record.
10 Q. The d[te?
11 A. The date it got flooded.
12 Why is that a systematic deficiency? I can understand Q.
13 wny you would say that's a problem, but why is it a system-h Id atic deficiency, something that's reoccuring. I sn' t that 15 a systematic deficiency, something that continues to occur?
16 A. Well, th ee has been other problems with diesel gener-17 ators of messing up that I have read in the public library.
18 Q. I understand that, but we ar e talking about the Catawba 19 diesel generators.
20 A. It's never been operated.
21 Q. That's correct.
}
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. So, why do you classify the diesel generator as a system-24 atic deficiency. Let me just stop, and let's get a de_ini-25 tion of the term " systematic deficiency." As I under stand 13 p.
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W i the term, systematic means something that reoccurs, a patteg 2 of behavior; and so, systematic deficiencies are reoccuring 3
deficiencies.
Is that what you understand the term to 4 be?
5 A.
Well, it only happened the one time, so it wouldn' t-6 be systematic.
7 Q.
Let me just stop.
8 Do you agree with my definition or your understanding of the term " systematic deficiency?"
9 Let me just stop and go back even a step further In the .
10 contention that you helped prepare, the term " systematic 11 deficiency" is used. So, it's not my term.
12 I'm simply tryins to understand the term.
13 I heve given you my impression of h 14 what systematic deficiency means, and I ask you, do you agree with it?
You don't have to agree with it.
15 A.
It's within the system to operate the nuclear power 16 plant, 17 and it needs to be done and it needs to be correc to operate this plant 18 safely and correctly for the pu blic 1
and the environment.
19 Q.
20 L et me just restate it to make sure I am clear of what you mean by systematic deficiency.
21 Ybu mean any deficiency involving systems in the pla~n t, and that deficiency could 22 23 occur once and you would call that a systematic deficiency or 24 it could occur more than once as long as that deficiencys i impacting a system, is that correct?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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- 1 Q. So, just taking as a for instance diesel generators, 2 . while the instance you may be ref erring to, the flooding 3 of the diesel generator, happened once, is that correct, 4 sir?
s A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. You would call that a systematic deficiency because the 7 . diesel generator is a system at the plant and you maintain 8 the f act that it was flooded was a deficiency?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. When das it flooded and if it will help you, I'm not 11 interested in the precise date. I just am trying to get 12 a feel?
13 A. I told you I didn' t know. I would have to look it up.
h 14 I was there. I worked there. It was flooded about four 15 foot up as high as it would go until it run out into the 16 rest of the building there, and that's down through the 17 hallway and all the way back into the diesel generator.
j 18 Q. What was flooded? The diesel generator room?
19 A. The whole room. When you walk into the diesel generator, i
20 there's a corridor, and there's control panels set up there,
- 21 and water was all the way up until it -- because when you 22 go into the corridor here, you step down, you walk down, 23 and' it was flooded up all the way to that, up onto the 24 control panels and all, in the whole area out in where the 25 diesel generator sits was all flooded out.
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('. 1 Q. Was the diesel generator itself covered with water?
? . A. If it was in its location, it was.
3 Q. Whs it in its location?
4 A. I don' t know, but I know the contr'ol panels were all 5 there.
6 Q. Were they under water?
7 .A. Up to however f ar the water came up.
a Q. Was there anything in the control panels?
9 A. Yes, sir, the wiring and all.
~~
10 Q. Could you see the wiring?
11 A. After you open it up.
12 Q. Did you open it up?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Do you know as a f act the wiring was there?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. How do you know as a f act the wiring was in?
17 A. Because af ter they drained the water out of it, we had 18 to build scaffolds in the diesel generator, and there was 19 individuals sitting there with the panels open with little 20 hair dryers blowing the wires.
21 Q. Control room rained upon. I believe we discussed this 22 with Mr. McAf f ee yesterday. What do you mean by that?
23 Water came through the roof. It was leaking through
, A.
24 the concrete. ,
25 O. Was this one spncific instance you are referring to?
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2 Q. What happened? What was the result of the rain in 3 the contr'1o room?
4 A. Well, it just fell down on panels 'and they brought in 5 space heaters. This was during the wintertime, and I 6 don' t know exactly the date or anything like that, but mos t 7 .of the guya -- that's where everybody ended .up to keep warm.
8 Q. I'm asking you this question, you, Nolan Hoopingarner, 9 do you maintain the fact that the control room was rained 10 upon rendd'rs Catawba a plant that is unsafe to operate?
11 A. It all depends on how much damage it did to the control 12 panels.
13 Q. Do you know how much damage it did?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Going back to the diesel generator, do you maintain 16 the f act that the panels were exposed to water and the 17 wiring was exposed to water renders the Catawba plant unsafe is to operate?
19 - A. It could. It all depends on how much damage was done.
20 Q. Do you know how much damage was done?
21 A. No.
22 Q. I have already asked you about the scaffolding and filing 23 in of the gap. With respect to the electrical cabl es, do 24 you maintain that the fact that these electrical cables were 25 laying on the flocr renders Catawba plant a plant that is 17 kW
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A. It could.
3 Q. Do you know as a f act that it does?
4 A. No,s ir. e Q. Let's go to -- something about the control room. Do 5
6 you know if -- Let me get to the valves. What area are you 7 ,
talking about where valves were put in backward s?
g A. It was in the auxiliary building.
, Q. Can you just explain valves being in backwards to me.
10 It was in-the auxiliary building?
33 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. How do you know valves were put in backwards?
i3 A. Because the people that I worked with and I built b# 34 scaffolds for, they were complaining and other fellow c
s workers that I worked for becau se we would have to -- you 15 16 kno w, it was just double work, needless work because we had i7 to go over there and build all new scaffolds and try to find is the material to build scaffolds and then build the scaf folds 39 for the valves to be cut out which shouldn't have been put 20 in backwards in the fir st place.
21 Q. Did you personally see any valves that were put in 22 back wards?
23 A. No, sir, I built scaf folds. We had to go back to our 24 area, but I saw the "aperwork on them.
25 Q. Do you know if, indeed, any of these valves were put 18 hr
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in backwards?
2 . A.
Yes, sir, just by Duke Power's word they were put in 3 backwards.
4 Q. Do you know if, indeed, they were 'put in backwards 5
that they were lef t in backwards?
6 A. No, sir.
7
.Q. They may have been corrected, is that correct?
8 A. Yes sir, let's hope so. I 9
Q. With r espect to -- I'm sorry, I can ' t read my own hand-10 writing, ,6ut something of pipe.
11 A. ~ Misalignment.
12 Q. Misalignment of pipe. What are you referring to there?
13 A. Running pipe on any elevation just to run it throug'h the 9
14 hole, just to have the system set up and just so they can 15 say they have it up.
16 Q. What area are you referring to?
17 A. Mainly going through the penetrations in the auxiliary is building and most of this is on number 1 side.
19 Q. Did you see th is pipe?
20 A. Yes, s ir .
I even brought it to Mr. Maxwell's attention.
21 Q. How do you know it was misalignment?
22 A. Because I heard other individuals saying it was ' laying 23 up against the penetration that went through the wall. It 24 was up against it.
25 Q. Do you know as a fact how it was suppose to be aligned?
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IF 1 A. By Mr. Maxwell's statement, they are suppose to be, 2 maybe not just exactly centered; they can be off a little J
{; 3 b it , but they aren' t suppose to be Aouching the interior
- 4 of it.
e Q. Have you ever had any training on the alignment of 6 pipes?
7- A. No , s r .
B Q. Do you know as a f act whether or not that pip e had 9
been mi{ aligned other than Mr. Maxwell's statement?
10 A. No, sir, just by what b e said.
11 Q. If accepting that this pipe was misaligned, do you know 12 that the situation was corrected?
13 A. Repeat.
Id Q. Do you know whether or not the situation was corrected 15 if indeed in the first instance --
16 A. No, I don' t.
17 Q. Let me go back to the valves. You mentioned the auxiliar:
18 room.
19 A. Auxiliary building. It had a whole bunch --
20 Q. That's the one area, and it was -- was this a continuing 21 problem or is it f act that in this one area they had put 22 in the valves --
23 A. By individuals that I talked with, the pipe powerhouse 24 mechanics, there was a lot of them that was put in backwards.
25 Q. In this particular --
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$i 1 A. In the building.
i 2 Q. In that auxiliary building?
- 3 A.
f Yes sir. ,
- 4 Q. That's the only building you know of?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q.
You don't know the particular area of that building?
7- A. No, sir.
Some was in t he penetration room.
8 Q.
And, the misaligning of pipe, you mentioned that per-9 tained to the penetrations of the reactor?
10 A.
No,' sir, this was all in the -- I didn' t work on the 11 reactor.
12 Q.
This was penetrations in the aux building? '
13 A. In the auxiliary building.
14 Q.
Was this a common problem, the misalignment of pipe or 15 are you just referring to one or two instances?
16 A. No, I witnessed it quite a bit.
"17 Q.
We are talking about misaligning of pipes. What pipes 18 are we talking about?
19 A.
1 Stainless steel pipe running through the wall.
20 Q. What are they used for?
21 A. For the running of the plant. It could be backup systems.
22 It could be the systems. I don't know.
23 Q. Were there hangers on pipes?
24 A. Pardon me.
25 O. Were there hangers holding the pipe.
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U" 1 A. Temporary hangers, yes, sir. .
2 Q. They were temporary?
3 A. Yes, sir.
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O. So, there still had to be final hangers on the pipe?
5 A. Yes, sir. Just before they transferred me out is when 6
they started putting up permanent hangers.
7 Q. Did you observe any of the permanent hangers?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Did ou have any problems with them?
10 A. Not -right off.
11 Q. Now, with respect to applicant's interrogatories, I 12 would like to direct you to applicant's interrogatories. Are 13 you familiar with the term " interrogatories?" They are h 14 written questions.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Are you aware that on April 9, 1982, thn applicants 17 sent to Palmetto Alliance interrogatories, written questions?
18 A. Yes, sir, I follow you.
19 Q. Are you aware of that document?
20 A. Yes, sir, and I filled out' answers to a lot of them 21 or whatever and sent it back.
22 Q. Can you tell me what topic-areas you concerned yourself 23 with?
24 A. The ones that it pertained to me. A lot of them didn't 25 pertain to me. Do you have our response?
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( 1 Q. Yes, and we'll get to that in a minute. As best as 2 . I can tell, Mr. Hoopingarner, looking at the response of 3 Palmetto Alliance which is dated April 28, 1982, it appears th at 4 you responded to questions 77, 78, 79 and 80 and maybe 5 several thereafter. I'm looking at 90, and I believe you 6 responded to 90, 91, 92 and 93. Can you look at answers 7 77 to 93 and wee if they look f amiliar?
8 MR. GUILD: Could we get the questions?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. 77is.Ekav.
11 MR. GUILD: Counsel, I believe Mr. Hoopingarner would 12 be A?
13 Q. That's cor rect. He would be A.
, .No need to look at B.
%d 14 A. What number?
15 Q. If you just run from 77 up to about 93. I have a lot to of questions I want to ask.
17 A. Okay, sir.
18 Do those answers refresh your recollection?
Q.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Those are answers that you gave?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Are you satisfied with those answers today?
23 A. Yes sir.
24 Do you have anything to add to those answers?
Q.
25 A. We could.
23 kr
. o f'
1 Q. Let me put it this way. Do you have anything to add 2 to those answers other than what you have told us either 3 this morn hg --
4 A. There was other harrassing things 'and stuff that I 5
could share like the weekly saf ety inspection report.
6 A. Let me just get the topic area. There are other 7 .harrassing things?
a A. Yes, there is other harrass hg things.
9 Q. Without the particulars -- I can pick that up in a 10 minute - ,'are there any other examples that you would 11 like to share with us concerning quality assurance or sub-12 standard workmanship? ,
13 A. The quality assurance or the quality control inspectors
'b 14 on the site, are they not suppose to enforce the NRC 15 or the construction procedures? In other words, just as 16 the management is suppose to?
17 Q. What I'm asking you, and so you understand,. last night 18 and early this morning, you shared concerns that you had?
19 A. Quite a bit, but I still have a lot more, but it's okay.
20 Q. Well, no, it isn't. I want to make sure that we get 21 all of your concerns, so what you are suggesting is that 22 you have more concerns?
23 A. Well, we stopped, so -- I do have others, bu t -- You 24 started this, and we are just running with it.
25 Q. That's correct, but during the course of this deposition, 24 W
l l
l l
1 I
c I 1 I wanc to get all of your concerns on the table and I want 2 .' to walk through them, but let me ask you this so we can 3 save some time. I understand you have a lot of concerns?
5 d A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And, I understand that some of the concerns go to 6 pr essur'n ?
7 .A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And, some of the concerns go to quality assurance, and 9 some of the Concerns go to substandard workmanship or f aulty 10 workmansh p?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Bu t , it seems to me you have other concerns aside from 13 that?
y
. 14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And , what I really want to get at are those concerns 16 that you have that cause you P.o believe that Catawba won't 17 be a safe plant to operate. Now, I'm just going to share is with you my view, and I'm shar ing this view with you in an t
l' effort to move along with the deposition.
20 A. Yes, sir.
l l
21 I went over my numerous pages of notes last night of Q.
l.
22 the concerns you have and you listed, and a great portion 23 of that --
2d A. Is worker safety.
25 Is worker saf ety, that's correct; and I don't mean to Q.
25 l mv I
l
e-- - . . . - . . .
F I
downplay that, 2
but to me and in the interest of this case,
. I don't think that's a subiect of this case.
3 A.
Yes, sir, because they walk hand in hand.
4 Q.
Let me see if I can clarify the situation.
5 I can understand the scaffolding issue. -
6 A. There you go, sir.
7 That was one of the papers that
.was given to us when I hired on, a Q. Right, and you signed a form, didn't you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
to Because of those allegations and bringing 11 safety ha$ards and stuff up to my foreman, they placed handwritten letter on me to shut me up.
12 Because I took the NRC man around, workers tried to kill me out there, so they
, 13 gave me another --
14 Q. Let's just stop --
15 A. Wait a second.
16 Q. No, no.
Look, I want to ask you --
17 A. I have one paper here.
18 It's Duke Power's weekly safety report, l'
and that's not even a fraction of the safety hazards 20 out there that individuals have to work through; and when 21 you don't feel safe, you can' t do quality wor k because you are afraid of getting hurt.
22 Q. You are speaking for yourself?
23 A.
t 24 I'm speaking of a lot of other people, a lot of welders --
Q. They personally told you --
i 25 A. Yes, sir.
bv i
<y-, n , w n , ,m -- - - - - - , - - - -
i .
i.
1 Q.
That they didn't feel like they were doing a quality 2 ,
job?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Who were they?
- 5 A.
They are people that I just built scaffolds for and 6
that other scaffold builders built scaffolds for.
7 , 0. What are their names?
8 A. I don't know their names. The other people that built 9
scaffolds?
10 Q. No, I~want to know --
11 A. I don't know their names. I know their faces.
12 Q. Let's just stop for a second. That's a very significant 13 f statement you have iust made.
W I can understand that you 14 make it based on your own personal experience.
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. You were out there?
17 A. Yes, sir.
1B Q.
You have a right to have your view, and that's what 19 we want to hear, but you now also cover with a sweeping 20 statement, you are including, I don't know how many pepple.
21 Who?
I mean don't you think you owe it to us and to them 22 to identif y those names?
23 A.
At that time, I didn't know that this was -- three 24 years down the line I was going to be sitting here in 25 front of you, otherwise I would have taken it all.
& 27
% 4 O
f I Q. You have no names?
2 . A.
Possibly Henry -- well, Henry Knox was the welder that 3
quinched the weld, d
Q.
If you don' t know any names, I'm not trying to pressure 5 you.
6 A. I was just trying to think.
7
.Q. Take your time.
8 A.
I have no names at this time.
9 Q. I tell you what.
Hold the documents in your file.
10 We 'll ge t,"to them, I assure you.
11 MR. GUILD: I maybe can suggest this.
12 I don ' t k no w how you want to approach this, but Mr. Hoopingarner
, 13 hW advises me that he would be mo re than happy to provide Id you copies right now of all the documents he has.
15 Q. That would be great.
16 Maybe as we continue this deposi- i 17 tion, we can get these copies now; and then at a break, we can look at them.
IB OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION 19 A.
20 It was called up that I was kicked out of the Army for beirG idnny, bu t I wasn' t even in the Army. I was in the 21 Ph 's .
22 Corps, and I was an honor man at Paris Island; and gat,.r, my training I took tha t you asked me about, I m'ade 23 91.81.
24 Q.
I don't think we need that. I have not asked you any 25 questions about the Army or the Marines except to find out ane 28
~
e 3 0
- 6 1
if you were in the service.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q.
Let's continue if we could. I had asked you in looking d
5 at those answers to the interrogatories if they first --
6 First if you maintain that those were correct answers , and you said yes; and 7
then I asked you if those were a fair
. summation of your concerns and you a said yes, but then you, 9
in essense, said .in part and you have many more concer ns.
A. I have others, yes.
10 Q.
11 I bel eve t$he best way is we'll get to those later .
The point is you do have other concerns?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 h Id Q.
Are you aware that Palmetto Alliance filed additional 15 answers, additional responses to that same set of interroga-tories and they filed those on April 19, 1983 about a month 16 aco.
17 Look at the first page, and I show you that, but look at the first page.
18 Have you seen that document before?
g, pg, l'
O.
20 You didn' t assist in the preparation cf that document?
A.
Not as we are talking right now. They might have taken 21 22 it off my papers or something or rap sessions in theast. p Q.
23 I understand, but with respect to rap sessions or 24 any papers you supplied around the March, April time frame, 25 you don't recall any rap sessions or preparing any papers in that time frame?
hv 29 l
,_._--=:
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Let me make it simple.
i Did anybody say we are going 3
to file additional answers and do you have any suggestions?
4 A. Possibly, but I'm not sure.
5 MR. GUILD:
6 If it won't hurt, counsel, I will help respond to the question.
7-Counsel nor Palmetto Alliance neither sought Mr. Hoopingarner's assistance with this set 8
of interregatories.
9 Q. They did not?
10
}m. GUILD: They did not.
li We relied on the original set.
12 Q. That's. all I'm trying to determine. Are you aware that 13 b 14 applicant's have filed a follow-up set of interrogatories on Palmetto Alliance dated May 4? Have you seen that 15 document?
16 A. Not this one.
17 Q.
Has anybody contacted you since May 4 to prepare 18 responses?
19 A. May 4?
20 Q. May 4 of --
21 A. '83?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. No.
You have as many documents as I have got. I wish 24 I had them last night.
25 Q.
Let's now turn to Palmetto Alliance's interrogatories.
hv 30
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r 1 Are you aware that on Apr il 21, 1982, Palmetto Alliance 2 . served interrogatories or questions upon the applicants?
3 A. I do'believe I --
d Q. Excuse me,1982, if I misspoke. That Palmetto Alliance 5 prepar ed interrogatories and sent them to u s, the applicants, 6 and asked u s to prepare questions?
7 .A. I think I have copies.
a Q. Did you write any of these questions?
9 A. Possi bly. I'm not sure.
10 Q. Do yo5' remember being contacted?
11 A. We talked about it, Ron and I.
12 Q. Have you seen the applicants' response to those 13 interrogatories and that response is. dated the 31st day
,y Id of December of 1982?
15 A. Your response?
16 Q. Yes, Duke Power or applicants' response and it's pages 37 14 through --
18 A. No, I have.
19 Q. 14 through 44 for the record. Are you aware that 20 applicants filed supplemental responses to those same 21 questions of Palmetto Alliance? Are you aware of that .
22 fact?
23 A. Will you repeat that please?
24 g, hre you aware in addition to this December 31 response 25 of applicant -- ,
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.e I
1 A. Of '82?
2 Q. Of '82, the applicants also filed additional responses?
- . 3 A. I knew th ef kept responding and, sending out here. Ron
' 4 would tell me, but I --
5 Q. You haven't seen any of the responses?
6 A. Not that I know of.
7- Q. That would be February 28, 1983?
8 A. I have some copies of some,b ut not a whole lot. Mostly 9 it was t[ hey contacted Ron and talked w!'-h Ron because he is 10 more up*on it than I am. He is the --
11 Q. Point man?
12 A. Yes, sir. The hazardous one. The point man is always 13 the hazardous one in the military.
b 14 Q. So, I can move through this, and I don't mean to be rude, is but is it f air to say you haven't seen the applicants' answer 6 16 to the interrogatories other than discussions?
17 A. I got a copy of one of your copies.
18 Q. And, that would be in your file?
19 A. If i t's not here, it 's at home, but. I do have a copy 20 of one of Duke Power's sort of like what you showed me, 21 but I don't know which one.
22 Q. Have you read it?
23 A. I looked through it. I did shuffle at it, but --
24 But, you don't recall which one it cs?
Q.
25 A. No, i;r .
y 32 l
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/ 1 Q. How did you get that copy?
2 ,
A. I got it from Ron.
3 Q. When did you cet that copy?
4 A. I'm not sure. I don' t know which'one it was. t's 5 been a long time. I haven't got any real r ecently, this 6 year .
7 , Q. Are you aware that Palmetto Alliance filed follow-up 8 interrogatories on the applicant on March 16, 1983; they 9 asked us some more questions?
10 A. No,sfr,Ihaven'tseenit, no, sir. Ron could have 11 told me about it, but that's about it.
12 Q. Is it safe to say you are not aware of applicants' 13 response to those interrogatories, t.he response being dated h 14 March 25, 19837 15 A. No, sir. I gave Palmetto Alliance my control or power 16 or whatever you want. They speak for me to a certain 17 extent.
18 O. I understand. I'm just trying to find out how much is
~
l' your involvement, what you know and what you have seen.
20 There were two other documents that the applicants furnished 21 to Palmetto Alliance. One was dated . Apr il 12 and had 22 documents attached to it. One was dated April 29. Do you 23 recall being made aware of those?
24 A. No.
25 Q. No to both? ,
33 i
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1 A. No to both.
2 . Q. Are you aware that Palmetto Alliance in addition to 3
seeking written responses also sought documents from the 4 J applicant?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Were you aware those documents were housnd here at the 7
. Duke Power Company Building in the legal offices?
s A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Were you asked to review those documents?
10 A. If I $ad time.
11 Q. Did you come down to Duke Power Company and review 12 those documents?
y 13 A. No, sir.
%W Id O. Have you seen any copies of those documents?
15 A. I think I have seen a few.
16 Q. Let me ask you this question. Has anybody said, "Here's 17 some documents that we got from Duke Power Company, and I 18 would like for your to review them."
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Turning to the deposition, when did you first find out 21 you were going to be deposed?
22 A. Just before I received a letter saying that we were 23 suppose to be in Columbia on the wrong date.
24 Q. It ended up you didn't even come to Columbia?
25 A. Yes, sir.
W 34
c
- 1 Q. In preparation for this deposition, did you talk to 2 any body? Did you talk to Mr. Guild?
3 A. No, sir.
d Q. Did you talk to Mr. McAffee?
5 A. Ye s , s ir . Excuse me. What did you mean by preparing 6 ourselves for what --
7 -Q. You have been here yesterday and today and I have been 8 asking you questions, and did anybody talk to you before 9 you came here yesterday?
10 A. Yes , $' sir .
Il Q. Who talked to you?
12 A. I talked to Jennifer. I talked with Bob Guild. I 13 talked with Maureen O'Brien and I talked with Ron McAffee.
I# id Q. What did you discu ss?
15 A. We discussed just being outselves and sharing the to truth so the truth could come out because that's all we 17 want is the truth to be revealed.
IB Q. Absolutely. We do too, and we appreciate that that's l
I 19 your view. When you had these discussions wit'h these 20 individuals, did you discuss any message that --
21 A. To give to you?
22 g, yes, 23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Let me ask you one final question in that. You talked 25 with Jennifer Phillips. What were you talking about in that 35
, kr l
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-r o e t
- conversation?
2 A. We talked, she shared with me some of thn documents she 3
read up in Washington that she got up there from the NRC pertaining to some of the mishaps andiviolations and stuff out at the Cat 2Nba project.
5 6 Q. Were they mishaps and violations that you were personally 7
familiar with?
8 A. One of them was -- she got the document that I was in 9 on. ,
jo Q. I'm sorr y.
MR. GUILD: The inspection r eport.
12 A. The inspection report that I was in, she read it.
13 Q. Where you were identified as the site employee?
0 k# MR. GUILD: He wasn't identified, but I think the 34 15 inference was that it was a result of Mr. Hoopingarner's 16 complaint .
37 Q. What was that document? Do you have a copy of that?
is A. Yes, sir, I got both the NRC sent to me.
39 Q. Are they in your file?
20 A. Yes, sir.
i 21 Q. Is that all you discussed with Jennif er Phillips?
l 22- A. Just some of the other things she come up with about l
23 negligence -- not negligence, but some of the violations out there at the Catawba plant. She wasn't able to go 24 25 through all of it.
36 W
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1 MR. GUILD: I think Mr. Hoopingarner is prepared 2.
to hand over the documents, and they will be copied.
3 Q.
Anything else in your discussions with Jennifer Phillips?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. l I will focus on your employment with Duke Power Company. ^
6 A. Af ter you take my records.
7
- Q.
As I understand it, when you were employed by Duke 8
and that was from 1977 to 1980, is that correct?
9 A. Yes , ' sir , Augus t 22 sor t of.
10 Q. You here employed at Catawba the entire time?
11 A. Y Es , sir.
12 Q. You indicated yesterday that you were a low builder, 13 a medium builder and a high builder?,
h 14 A. Ye s , s ir .
15 Q. You started off as a low builder, is that correct?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. What were your Specific job duties as a low builder?
18 A. It depends on the crew that you are on and the work 19 assigned to that crew.
20 Q. What crew were you on?
21 A. My first crew I worked f or David Ray.
22 Q. Let's stop there. David Ray, what were you doing?
23 A. We were putting reber in the bottom of the spent fuel.
24 We were constructing walls, helping on pouring of the 25 concrete.
W 37 1
l
1 Q. Constructing walls?
2 A. Form walls, bulkheads, whatever you may want to call 3 them.
J 4 Q. And, helping pouring concrete?
5 A. Yes, sir.
We had to watch when the concrete was being 6 poured in case the re bar would break loose.
7 .Q. This was all in the spent fuel pool?
8 A. It was the bottom of the spent fuel.
9 Q. Pool? ' The bottom of the spent fuel pool?
10 A. Yes, sir. I' guess number 1 side. That side when you 11 walk in. It's on' the righthand side, the very bottom, the 12 whole big, long, isn't that spent fuel?
13 Q. Well, i t's not the spent fuel. It's the spent fuel W 14 pool.
15 A. Right, the fuel that's in the container.
16 Q. That's co rrect. That's what I'm saying. This was the 17 spent fuel pool 18 A. Right, out there we just called it spent fuel and that 19 was it.
20 Q. Any other area or any other activities that you performed
! 21 when you worked for Mr. Ray?
22 A. Nothing else except pertaining to construction. I mean 23 we had to cu t rebar .
2d Q. I understand that. I don' t want to get into that in 25 particular, but basically it was putting in rebar at the 38 W
C, 1 bottom, constructing walls and helping pour concrete?
2 . A. Right.
3 Q. That's all you did for Mr. Ray, correct?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Who us your next foreman?
6 A. B. H. Tolen.
7 .Q. Were you still a low builder at this time?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. What did you do for Mr. Tolen?
10 A. Const.Euct walls, put penetrations in the walls, build 11 columns, put rebar in the columns, cad weld, well, help 12 on cad weld. I didn't cad weld because you were suppose 13 to be certified or something.
W 14 Q. How did you help with cad welding?
15 A. Holding up rebar, assisting with getting the powder.
16 Q. But, there was a cad welder performing this activity?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What area were you building?
19 A. This was in he auxiliary building.
20 Q. Wherea bouts in the auxiliary building?
21 A. That would be 560 elevation wheneve. ve started there.
22 Q. Built walls, penetrations of the walls --
23 A. It was 560.
24 Q. Columns, rebarring columns, helped pour the concrete, 25 helping assist the cad welder, anything else?
39 W
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' Tear ing down shearing bucks.
1 A.
What are those?
2 .
Q.
3 A. They are real big scaffolds where you set up and you 4 put your 4 by 6's on top and your 2 x'6's on top of that 5 and the plywood, and then you pour the floor and put in 6 your rebar for the floor which would be the ceiling on 7 .the one.
8 Q. Basically, you were doing construction work in the 9 auxiliary building at elevation 560, is that correct?
10 A. Yes, [ir , at that time.
11 Q. Anything else' significant with respect to the construc-12 tion activity? I'm satisfied with the answer construction 13 activity unless you think there is something important'to W 14 add?
15 A. I witnessed and helped replace rebar around those 16 penetrations because everywhere those core drillers went 17 downstairs and drilled a hole all through it, there is no 18 extra protection or extra strength around them like we 19 did in the others.
20 Q. But, in this area, we put rebar around --
~
21 A. Yes, sir , wherever there was.
22 Q. Is that all the work you did for Mr. Tolen?
23 A. Construction work.
24 Q. It was at elevation 560?
25 A. 560 and 577, we moved our map check up.
40 W
. , . t r
1 Q. This is still with Mr. Tolen?
2 . A. Yes, sir. l 1
3 Q. T hen , at that elevation, you did essentially the same d work as you were doing?
5 A. We had to move our map check up to an area and then 6 we built up the walls proceeding upwards.
7 -Q. I understand. Now, did you do any more work for Mr.
8 Tolen?
9 A. Not that I can recall at this time.
10 Q. Who w$s your next foreman?
11 A. R. R. Pelfry.
12 Q. Mr. Pelfry, were you still a low builder?
13 A. I'm not sure.
NW id Q. You may have been a middle?
15 A. I think I may have, but I think I might have got my 16 raise right af ter I got with R. R. Pelfry.
17 Q. Was there any significance, aside from pay, from being 18 a low builder or medium builder or high builder?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Just the time on the job?
Q.
21 A. Yes, sir, the time, the pay. .
22 Q. You went to Mr. Pelfry. What did you do for Mr. Pelfry?
23 A. I was a scaffold builder.
24 Whereabouts was that?
Q.
25 A. In the whole auxiliary building, deisel generators, the 41 b
9 1
UHI building, the adjoining buildings.
2 . Q. Okay, let me get this. The auxiliary building, and 3
you said the UHI building?
4 A.
Yes, sir, it's a little out building sort of where 5
I showed Mr. Maxwell all that green water.
6 Q. And, what other building?
7 .A. Adjoining buildings that was around there. There were 8
a couple of other little places.
9 Q. Small-buildings?
10 A. Right,"
11 Q. Around the auxiliary building?
12 A. Yes, sr, and some times we were sent off to help in
, 13 the turbine building. It depends on --
%W 14 Q. You said the generator. What did you mean by that?
15 A. Diesel generator.
16 Q.
You mean you went to the generating room?
17 A. Yes, sir. I was one of the individuals that helped la put the scaffolding up to put everything in that.
19 Q. I'm trying to understand the areas.
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q.
The auxiliary building, the UHI building, the turbine 22 building, the steam generator --
23 A.
Containment or whatever you want to call it.
24 Q.
Those are the areas you built the scaffolding?
25 A. Yes , s ir .
W 42
e .
c
. i Q. What little buildings? You said little buildings.
2 , A. Uh huh. The UHI building, if you go out -- I don't 3 know what direction it is, but you go in on .the plant and 4 if you walk through to the control pan'el --
5 Q. Let me ask you this.
6 A'. You' go up to the right, and there are some little 7 . buildings out there. I don't know what they are for or 8 anything.
9 Q. You don' t know what equipment was in those buildings?
10 A. No,s[r.
11 Q. That's all you did for Mr. Pelfry?
12 A. We built forms.
13 Q. For pouring concrete?
hW 14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. You built them -- what areas? The same areas?
16 A. The whole auxiliary building, all the way from 522 up l'7 to 611. Well, even higher than that, if you take it up 18 to the top of the dog house.
19 Q. You built forms for the dog house?
20 A. Yes, sir, where they would take. and have big pipe stands i
21 or whatever. We had to build the little forms around it 22 where they poured the grout to replace it.
23 Q. Any other areac? The auxiliary building up to the .
24 dog house -- any other areas where you built concrete forms?
25 A. No, sir.
43 W
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9 1 Q. Did you do any other work for Mr. Pelfry?
2 . A. Yes, sir, I went out for approximately two months into 3 the storage yard to clean it up.
4 Q. By yourself?
5 A. No, sir, there was a whole crew of us. They just picked 6 people from random, and Roy Durham was sort of our leadman or --
7 .You need to put Roy otherwise there's a whole bunch of 8 Durhams.
9 Q. With respect to clean up in the storage yard, what did 10 that enta.El?
11 A. Stacking the forms that we used, pulling nails, getting 12 rid of pipe, shear ing bucks, the scaffolding, the bracing.
13 Q. So, it truly was a storage yard?
W 14 A. Yes, sir, and we killed a lot of wasps. We killed some 15 copperheads.
16 Q. Anything else?
17 A. A lot of vegetation growing up all over the place which is is a violation of OSHA regulations.
19 Q. But, that's another day, r ight?
20 A. Yes, sir, later.
21 Q. Now, with respect to Mr. Pelfry, anything else, any 22 other jobs for Mr. Pelfry?
23 A. Besides --
24 Q. Scaffold building, concrete form building, storage yard 25 clean up.
44 W
T
- 1 A. Not that I can remember at this time.
2 . Q. Then, after Mr. Pelfry, who did you work for?
3 A. Frank Cantrell.
4 Q. That was the cooling tower, wasn' t' it?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. What did you do there?
7 .A. Putting rebar into place, placing rebar into the slab, 8 building forms, building walkways, stairs, tearing down 9 forms, helping the welders.
10 Q. Esseabially the type of work you were doing for Mr.
11 Ray and Mr. Tolen?
12 A. Yes, sir, back out from being a scaffold builder, back 13 out if you want to consider it hard labor.
NW id f Q. Any other particular germain activity for Mr. Cantrell?
15 Let me. strike that question. When you worked for Mr. Cantre13 ,
16 you were doing heavy labor, and when you worked for Mr. Ray 17 and Mr. Tolen, you were doing heavy labor; and you have 18 described the heavy labor you performed for both of those l' gentlemen. Was it essentially the same sort of work for 20 Mr. Cantrell?
21 A. Yes, sir, but it was underneath different circumstances.
22 I appreciate that, but --
Q.
23 A. Bu t , it was pretty much the same type of work.
24 Is there any particular additional work I ought to know Q.
25 about which has a bearing on the contention when you worked 45
. =
r I for Mr. Cantrell?
2 . A. I was underneath extreme pressure.
3 Q. I'm just talking about the work you were doing.
4 A. Okay, not it was the same type of work.
5 Q. Af ter Mr. Cantrell, that was the last job, is that 6 right?
7 .A. Yes, sir. It was the one they bucked up f alse charges 8 to get me off the project.
9 Q. I will just pass by that, if you don't mind. Now, the 10 momentodtruth. The allegations, let me go through these 11 allegations. I want to know the specifics of these allega-12 tions, and you shared quite a bit with us yesterday; and 13 I'm going through my notes and will ask you if you have any
'W-14 other allegations. Counsel has provided us with references 15 to certain documents; i.e., reports. I think there are 16 some other documents I have here that make reference to 17 the concerns you have. The exit interview attachment, and 18 I just want to feel comfortable and I want you to feel 19 comfortable when we leave this room this evening that we 20 have got those concerns annotated.
! 21 A. I have been trying for years.
22 Q. That 's what I said . This is the moment of truth.
l 23 A. Yes, sir.
l 24 Q. When we get into this, and we are just about ready to
, 25 do it --
( .,
46
[
t If _
I T,
i 1 A.
i I need my documents, tussu8' 2 Q.
Let's see if I can talk a cou l
?;;j~ n 3 4
fully the documents will be here. p e of more minutes and 5
to focus on those matters you thi Let's see if we can tr; safe operation nk have a bearing on the 6
of the plant.
A. All right.
7 S* a Q.
MM And, I understand that unsafe C a 9 your mind and perhaps in the appli working condition l
i beari.ng on plant operations cants' mind have a 10 .
that, sus but if you can continue to keeSo, I don't m 11 ( p in mind -- Let me p7 1 give you a for instance.
12 W. A.
s..- 13 I know what you are talking about ,
and I know 14 '
my big ones is electrical cables .
one of O.
That 's what I want 15 to focus on.
a j this room, you -- When you walk away from 16 s
A.
1 17 Q.
You will know what I know .
is And, you have told us those matt 19 ' really have a bearing on a safe aoper A. on?
tiers which you th Yes, sir.
20 21 SHORT RECESS Q.
22 I'm going to focus on your conc j break it down, erns.
I would like to if I could, and see if it work 23 Those concerns that affect you s this way.
24 r allegation that substandard workmanship at there was 25 the plant.
Then, I would like to focus on those concerns that you have with regard to the 47 J
1 quality assurance, and lastly, I would like to focus upon 2 the concerns regarding company pressure.
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Do you think we can break it down 'in those categories?
5 A. They kind of run together on some of them, but we will 6 try our best.
7 J2 Try and ascertain the best way to handle it. Maybe the 8 best -- let's go concern by concern, and I can ask you 9 which category it f alls into.
10 A. Okay.,
11 Q. I'm going to try to go through my notes that I have 12 taken yesterday and early this morning , and le t's see if 13 that is a good point of departure. We'll start off by 14 referring to your work with David Ray and people not 15 working. Did that have any bearing on the safe operation 16 of Catawba?
17 A. No, sir.
18 No cooperation between the craft. Does that have any Q.
! 19 bearing on the safe operation of Catawba?
20 A. I'm not sure.
21 Q. Let me stop and try to give you some more guidance.
Do you anticipate that you will testify in this proceeding whe n l
22 23 we get to a hearing? Has anybody said that you may be f
24 called as a witness?
25 A. I want to.
48 hv l
l
- 4.
t 1
Q. When you come to testify in this proceeding, I want 2 . you to focus on the items that you think have a bearing 3 on the safe operation.
4 A. Like electrical cables.
5 .Q. Rig ht , so you tell me as I go through each one of 6 these if its unrelated and we will drop it, and I under-7 . stand you have a concern with it, but it doesn't have a .
a bearing on this precise issue and let's not waste our ,
9 time today on it. No cooperation between crafts?
10 A. Not when I was working for David Ray or is this for J
11 the whole period that I worked out there?
12 Q. I would say so, yes.
13 A. It could when I was a scaffold builder and when I was
- 9 Id in the auxiliary building.
15 Q. Explain it for me, could you?
16 A. Welders and pipe fitters not getting along together.
17 Q. What was the result with respect to safe operation of 18 the plant because they didn' t get along together. Welders 19 and inspectors, was there poor workmanship done there?
1 20 A. There's a possibility.
21 Q. You don't know as a fact?
22 A. No, sir.
4 23 Q.. Was there bad quality assurance because of this?
24 A. Because of the crafts not getting along together?
25 Q. Yes.
49 W
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.a e t
1 A. I would say on that one for one instance that I know of, 2 . yes.
3 Q. What was the incident?
4 A. It was in spent fuel. This inspec' tor flunked some welds 5 and the welders said that he had a grudge out on him.
6 That's why he was being hard on him.
7 .Q. Who was the inspector?
8 A. Bill Edwards.
9 Q. Who were the welders?
10 A. I do [ot know.
11 Q. He flunked the welds, is that right?
12 A. Yes, sir, he went over his head.
13 Q. Do you know if the weld was subsequently passed?
W Id A. They went over his head to his foreman and he told me 15 this.
16 Who is he?
Q.
17 A. Bill Edwards.
18 Who was the inspector?
Q.
19 A. Yes, sir, and he complained to the NRC.
20 With respect to the welds.
Q. Do you know which welds 21 we are talking about?
22 A.
Just the welds to hold the stainless steel sheeting on 23 the side of the spent fuel pool. .
24 Do you know as a fact whether these welds are correct Q.
25 welds or incorrect welds?
50 W
.. =
d 9
1 A. No, sir.
2 - Q. Now, with respect to drugs.
, 3 A. You go all different directions on that.
4 Q. How did drugs have a bearing on the safe operation at 5 Catawba?
6 A. People being under the influence of it while trying to 7 udo quality work .
8 Q. What work?
9 A. Walding, inspecting, placement of pipe, cables beinga 10 pulled inth ca ble trays could have a -- they could have 11 pulled the wrong ones in or -- it's hard to tell on that 12 part.
13 Q. Any others?
Welding, inspecting, placement of pipe, Y 14 and --
15 A. That would be the pipe fitters.
16 Q. Cable, pulling cable, anything else?
17 A. The building of scaffolds for the people that had to 18 work on them.
19 Q. Anything else?
20 A. Not at this time.
21 Q. Did you personally see any welders under the influence 22 of drugs? "
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Who?
Q.
25 A. I believe his name was Steve Dapper, but there were 51 W
i
s I several. I mean the whole 560 elevation and 554 elevation 2 - in the lower floors, you could walk around in there and 3
get high just about by people lighting joints up.
4 Q. Do you know any other names, any other names of welderc 5 who were taking drugs?
6 A. I don't know their names.
7 -Q. Do you know what area they were welding in?
8 A. They were welding in the pipe chase. They were welding 9 in the pen ~etration room. They were welding in the 522 in 10 the basembnt, feed water pump room. This is all number 1 11 side because there was -- we were just building scaffolds 12 on the number 2 side.
13 Q. Any other areas?
V 14 A. Well, there--
15 Q. Pipe chase, penetration room, 522 elevation, feed water 16 pump room --
17 A. 560 elevation, 577 elevation, in the auxiliary buildiag.
18 Q. Did you see any welders that you considered under the 19 influence of drugs actually welding?
20 A. Yes. -
21 Q. You saw them welding in each one of these areas you have 22 id en tified, is that correct? You saw welders welding and I l
23 when I.say welders, I mean welders under the influence, 24 1 welding in the pipe chasn? You say welders under the 25 influence welding in the penetration room. You saw welders !
52 k
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I welding under the influence in the auxiliary building 2 elevations 522, 560 and 577, is that correct?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. And, the same with the feed water' pump room?
5 A. Yes, sir. This would be underneath the drugs or alcohol.
6 Okay, I want to add on that they would be underneath drugs 7 .or they had been drinking.
a Q. So, the responses you have given in response to drugs
_ 9 also -- -
10 A. Inclugealcohol.
11 Q. - And, the same' areas?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Do you know if the welds were improperly performed?
W 14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. With respect to the inspecting. Did you see inspectors 16 under the influence of drugs, under the influence of 17 alcohol?
i 18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. How do you know they were under the influence of drugs 20 or under the influence of alcohol?
21 A. Becau se of the individuals. I used to smoke pot for 22 about ten years until I got born again with the Lord Jesus, 23 and during the time -- And, I smoke out there on the plant.
24 I slept on the plant just like a lot of the other individuals
- 25 until I came to Jesus, and he made it in my heart that it was 53
i '
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1 all wrong in doing that because it was written --
2 Q.
I understand that, and I appreciate that point.
3 A. Therefore, I auld know and you could smell alcohol J
4 upon these individuals.
5 Q. Did you see people actually drinking alcohol?
4 6 A. Yes, sir.
7 . Q. Did you see people actually taking drugs?
8 A. Yes sir.
9 Q. Did you see welders actually drinking alcohol?
10 A. Yes,.$ir.
11 Q. Did you see welders --
12 A. It wasn't on the. job, though. It was off the job at 13 lunch time. .
'h 14 Q. Did you see welders actually taking drugs?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. On the job?
17 A. Yes , sir.
- IB Q.
! And, all my questions are in the context of on the job.
i 19 A.
Well, how about at lunch time when they get of f and go 20 l
down to Finland's and get a beer and smoke a couple of joints 21 and come back.
22 Q.
I would include lunch time as on the job for purposes of 23 this discussion because it would impact on their work pre-24 sumably.
t 25 A. Yes, sir.
Q.
I ask you the same set of question with respect to 54
e
' 1 inspectors. You actually saw inspectors taking drugs?
2 .
A. Taking drugs, would that be -- well, I would say.
3 We talk about alcohol and smoking pot or --
d O. I was going to ask you a bout alcohol next.
5 A. Smoking pot, again that is a drug, would you consider -
o it, would you not?
7 .Q. I would. Did you see any inspector taking drugs?
8 A. See any inspector taking drugs? Not that I can recollect 9 right now 10 Q. Did you see any inspector taking a drink of alcohol?
11 A. No, sir, at this time I can't.
12 Q. With respect to placement of pipes. Did you see any a
13 employees who were placing pipes take drugs?
14 A. Yes, sir.
~
15 Q. Who?
16 A. Red Hamilton was one of the pipe fitters.
17 Q. Any other people?
18 A. There was a lot of them, a lot of them. I can see their 19 faces, but I can' t -- most of the individuals, you know, went 20 by nicknames down there.
l 21 Q. Did you see any placement pipe workers taking alcohol?
22 A. No.
t 23 Where did Red Hamilton and these other people work?
Q.
l 24 A. In the auxiliary building from mainly on 560 and 554 j
25 elevation; 554 mainly was Red's assignment.
55 l mv l
l l
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6
' Y I Q. Do you know as a fact whether or not they improperly 2 placed pipe?
3 A. No.
d O. Now,cwith respect to cable pulling. Did you see any 5 cable pullers take drugs? s 6 A. Yes.
7 Who?
-0 8 A. I was just in the car with I don't know their names.
9 them. '
10 Q. In a CNr going to or from work?
11 A. At lunch time.
o 12 Q. Did you see any cable pullers take alcohol?
13 A. No, sir.
Id i
O. Where were the group of cable pullers pulling cable?
15 A. I don't know. Like we all would just get together and 16 go out and come back in, and you don't know really anybody 17 except by their hard hats.
Is Q. It would follow, I would think, you don' t know whether l'
,or not they pulled cable improperly?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. With respect to scaffolding, did you see any scaffold 22 builders take drugs?
23 g, y,s.
24 Q. Who?
25 A. Can I have a conference with my attorney first?
h' 56 bv h
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1 Q. Sure.
2 . A. Okay, the individuals that I worked with, most of them 3
are pret ty decent individuals, and I just--
4 Q. You don't want to tell their names'?
5 A. Rig ht.
6 Q. What crews?
7 .A. It was 90, Richard Pelfry's crew. We were the only B
scaffold builders in there.
9 Q. That would have been the auxiliary building?
10 A. Yes sir.
11 Q. -Did you see any of these individuals take alcohol?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Do you know as a fact whether or not they built improper
( NV 14 scaffolds?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. How do you know?
17 A. By OSHA regulations, by the manual that put forth that 18 we were suppose to build them by, by our safety meetings in 19 the morning of how we were suppose to build them, but 20 sometimes you get preached , but does not be enforced.
21 Q. What was the affect of improper scaffolding?
22 A. Hazard to the people that has to get up on them, safety 23 hazard. For instance, one guy took and just put a board 24 up on two pipes, just sat it there and didn't tie it off 25 or anything. The pipe fitter cam e over and was hanging onto 57 69
h 9
l 1
another pipe, and he stepped down on the board -- it was 2
a piece of plywood he sat up there. The plywood flipped 3
up and it went down and --
- Q.
Let me see if I can ask it this way. With respect 5
to this improper scaffolding, people did work on the 6
7 .
A. Yes, sir.
8 Q.
What was the general nature of the work? Pipe fitting?
9 A. It was --
10 Q. Wel)ing?
11 A. Weldings 12 Q.
Do you know as a. fact that any of the work that was .
13 h 14 done on the scaffold was done improperly?
A. No,s ir.
15 O.
I have a couple of points I would like to follow up on.
16 You mentioned you didn't know the people names. They were 17 just hard hats.
Don't all hard hats have names on their 18 hats? Did you have a name en your hard hat?
19 A. Sometimes. Lots of times wa didn't. Curiietimes we did.
20 The later reign more or less of when I was there is when 21 they came down and told us you went up and had your name 22 stenciled on with some plastic and that's whenever they 23 wouldn' t even put it on my hard hat. I put my own on.
24 Nobody wanted to know who Hoopingarner was. I got cussed 25 out a lot af ter they found out who I was.
NW
$' Q. Moving on to another topic. Knife to the throat.
i
~
2 , How does that impact safe operation at Catawba? I know 3 you may not like it. I'm not condoning it, and I'm not 4 in a position to condone or uncondone 'or whatever the 5 appropriate term may be, but I'm just focusing on the 6 safe operation at Catawba. The fact that Mr. Tolen put 7 ,a knife to people, do you think that had an impact on the a safe --
9 A. It could.
10 Q. How?[
it A. By the employees that he might have pulled this trick 12 on because he did it to a small multitude of individuals 13 and he was horseplaying around a lot.
V What type of individuals.
, 14 Q. What craf t were they?
E 15 A. Other crews of builders that I know of. I don't to know if he ever did it to any of the inspectors or not.
17 Q. Let me see if I can simplify. Do you know as a result is of Mr. Tolen putting the knife to people's throats, and 19 he was the individual, isn't that correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Do you know whether or not there was any --
22 A. Sabotage? ,
23 Q. No.
24 A. Because that could have happened.
25 Q. That's not my question. Do you know whether or not 59 W
C* I any equipment important to the safe operation of Catawba 2 . was improperly installed?
3 A. No, because we were -- it was construction of the con-4 crete and rebars and that stuff. It wasn't inside with 5 . machinery.
6 Q. I think you have answered my question.
7 .A. I would like to say that becuase of B. H. Tolen pulling a his hawkblade knife to people's throats and a lot of 9 people did not go for it and care for it which could result 10 in them b$~ing aggravated, and they look at your foreman 11 doing this kind of stuff as being Duke, the company, which 12 maybe tried to sabotage certain areas of the plant in 13 the construction of it. I don ' t know.
14 Q. You don't know that as a fact?
(
15 A. Right.
16 Q. That's all I'm asking is as a fact. You mentioned 17 cords, I have here. Does that ring a bell with you, cords?
18 Is my kTiting correct?
19 A. Electrical cords?
20 Q. I guess it's electrical cords.
21 A. Welding leads?
22 Q. Cords, welding leads, foreign matter, nails sticking out, 23 welding leads would be frayed, is that all trash?
24 A. Well, it is not trash because you had to use this stuff.
25 Q. Now, let me ask you the question. The fact that any of 60 hv
5
' I this existed at the Catawba plant, does that have an impact 2 on the safe operation of catawba?
3 A. It could.
d How?
Q.
5 A. Because workers where they had to work at with all 6 the health hazards around.
1 7 .Q. Do you know if any work in such is unsatisfactory?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Now, we talked about a walk board forty feet high hooked 10 off on an[ thing, and then welders were welding. I think 11 we have already discussed this, haven't we?
12 A. What?
13 Welders were welding, and you don't know as a f act' Q.
. NV Id
~
whether or not those welds are improp r?
15 A. Bu t , by waht they have instructed me they just filled 16 a hole.
17 But, you don't know if that weld --
Q.
18 A. I'm not a welder. I'm not certified inspector to be 19 able to tell if there is -- if it's wrong or not; but I 20 do know that people that are under pressure, that are 21 scared cannot do as good work as if they would do as if .
22 '
we are sitting here without any hazards to their physical 23 health. -
24 Q. I understand. You mentioned a suggestion paper you 25 gave to Mr. McDowell?
hv i
f, 1 A. Yes, sir.
2 . Q. Do you have that with you?
3 A. Yes, sir, you got a copy of it.
4 Q. Is that the one --
5 A. With the Malamute in the corner.
6 Q. I will get to that. Gambling, parlaying, playing cards, 7 .does that have any b earing --
8 A. Parlay cards. It's gambling.
9 Q. Does that have any bearing on the safe operation of 10 Catawba?.
11 A. It just maybe the foreman doing his duty, but our 12 lead man just about ran the crew.
13 Q. I understand that. I appreciate that.
N Id A. Hbrking as --
15 Q. A factor that says Catawba isn't a safe plant?
16 A. Right.
17 You don' t think so?
Q.
18 A. What he did at that time did not hurt any machinery l' that was going to go in there.
20 Or wouldn ' t cau se Catawba to operate unsafely?
Q.
21 A. Right.
22 Let me give you a topic area here, and you can help me Q.
23 out. Bringing up safety hazards, cords hanging, proper 24 practices, boards on pipes, unistruts, cable trays, f avori-25 tism. You sort of said that all in one breath.
62
,av
t
'V A.
1 4
That was what I shared with Mr. Maxwell in the middle of
~~
2 April sometime.
, 3 12 We have already talked about the cords hanging. Thst J
4 was the trash ' and what not?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. How about improper practices? What is that? Let me 7 .ask you this. With respect to what you told Mr. Maxwell, 8 if I were to go and look at the Malamute suggestions would 9 that be -- would those be your concerns?
10 A. Yes,Eir.
11 Q. - So, I can pass it?
12 A. Bu t , see, like I asked you earlier that the quality 13 control inspectors are they not suppose to enforce the
~b 14 construction procedures the same way as our foremen or 15 leadmen are suppose to enforce it?
16 Q. Quite frankly and being blunt, I'm going to ask you 17 questions. I don't even know if I know the answer to that 18 qu es tion. Let's just -- I just want to save us some time 19 here, and if I can get this document and look at it and 20 say are these the concerns you made with Mr. Maxwell, then 21 that satisfies me.
22 A. There was a lot more than those, but I took him around 23 for two and a half hours and showed him.
l 24 Q. Here's what you said, again, bringing up safety hazards 25 to Mr. Maxwell; cords hanging, and we have already discussed 63 W
ss ..e*-- . 2. ._ __
9 q
1 that?
2 , A. Yes, sir, and he walked through them and had to push 3 them out of his way.
d Improper practice. What is improper practice?
Q.
5 A. Improper practice of construction procedures; CP 371 and 6 cp 170 and and probably a multitude of others.
7
.Q. Where were these practices improperly carried out?
e A. Throughout the auxiliary building.
9 Q. Do you know if theses improper practices have resulted 10 in Catawbi being unsaf e plant?
11 A. It could.
12 Do you know as a fact?
Q.
13 A. No, sir, plant is not fired up.
9 Id
~
Q. Boards on pipes.
15 A. It's a violation of construction procedures.
16 Q. Righ t. I say I understand what you are saying, and there 17 were boards on pipes.
18 A. Yes, sir.
I' Why is that -- what affect do boards on pipes have on O.
20 the -- -
21 A. We were not suppose to put boards on pipes pertaining ' -
22 to the construction procedure.
23 I understand.
Q.
24 Duke Power management, if you want to put it, overlooked A.
25 it or -- how can I say it. I don't have some of the fif ty hv
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t*
1 cent words to throw in there, but --
2 , Q. You did pretty good last night.
3 A. They walked around with horse blinders on.
4 Q. Let me ask you this question. Do /ou know as a f act 5 that boards on pipes are going to cause Catawba to be an 6 unsafe plant?
7 ,A. It could.
8 Q. But, you don't know as a fact?
9 A. Right ,because some of the boards we put on the pipes 10 individua,fs were working on them. It lowered it dovn on 11 the next floor do'wn, and then when they hooked it up, it 12 was hooked up on the wrong elevation and all which threw
, 13 the whole pipe system out.
IF 14 Q. Do you know if that is going to render Catawba unsafe?
15 A. It could.
16 Q. Do you know if that will be examined by engineers at 17 Duke Power Company?
18 A. It s hould .
19 Q. The unistruts, what is that?
20 A. To hold up the cable trays, and we used it to build 21 scaffolds with.
22 Q. With respect to unistruts, what was the problem?
23 A. We were putting boards on it. We were building scaffolds 24 on it which was a violation in our rules and regulations.
25 Q. Because you put boards on pipes and because you put 65 kr
I boards on unistruts and because you put boards on cable 2 . trays, do you know as a f act that that is going to render ,
3 Catawba an unsafe plant?
4 A. No, sir, I do not know it as a fadt, but it could.
5 Q. Favoritism. .
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 .Q. Why do you mean by that?
8 A. Who you know. Who you get your nose dirty by.
9 Q. Is that going to have any bearing on what we are 10 talkingajout?
11 A. It could by individuals, moremen is down on you, on 12 individuals; and like I stated before, you don't like 13 to be off the ground and he knows it, and he sends you ,
14 way up in th e air.
15 Q. I understand what you are saying, and I think it's 16 repetitive because you have already shared some views, but 17 I think you also stated you didn't know as a f act whether.
18 or not that practice resulted in unsafe work, improper 19 work?
20 A. Improper work, but it could have.
21 Q. It could have, but you don't know as a f act?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Green water in UHI building. .
24 A. Yes, sir. -
25 Q. Is that going to cause Catawba to be an unsafe plant?
66 W
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1 A. It's doubtful. l 2 . Q. Scaffold ' boards on pipes, we already discussed that.
3 The 560 elevation cable trays. That 's probably the same 4 thing. We discussed that.
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Ca bles hanging, we have already discussed that. That's 7 . tr a sh', isn't it?
8 A. Well, not the electrical cable coming out of the cable 9 tray. The other cables khere the oregon hoses, the welding to leads, th$' electrical; and these other ones are the electri-11 cal cables which we discussed being rolled up on the 12 floor -- ,
13 Q. That 's right, we have already discussed that.
i 14 A. They are suppose to run the machinery in this plant 15 safely.
16 Q. I understand. We have already discussed those cables, 17 men walking on them, lying in water, people dropping things -
is on them.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Carbon steel.
21 A. Yes, sir, carbon steel and stainless steel.
22 Q. They are not suppose to be together, correct?
23 A. Well, you are suppose to eliminate as much abrasion 24 of carbon steel and stainless stee'l together, and it was 25 not being done very much at all.
67 .
er -
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tuun
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1 Q.
2 Is that going to have an impact on the safe operation?
het A. It could, gc ., 3 Q.
- ..e hhere will it have impact?' '
g 4 A.
Throughout the auxiliary building that I know of I 5 .
don't know about the rest of --
6 Q.
We are talking about pipes?
-7 A.
j B Yes, sir, pipes, flanges which, you know, hook up to
. the pipes.
9 Q.
10 Do,,you know if these pipes or flanges are going to be inspected before they are utilized?
11 A. I don't know.
1 They s hould .
l 12 I think about everything somewhere down the line gets inspected somewhe;e.
13 Q.
h 14 You don't know as a fact, do you, that these pipes or flanges are going to render Catawba unsafe?
15 A.
No, I do not know it as a fact.
16 Q.
Acetylene bottles on the side.
17 A.
18 That's where I took Mr. Maxwell into the penetration 19 room and he witnessed all that stuff.
Q. Is the fact 20 that acetylene bottle is on its side going to render Catawba an unsafe plant?
21 A.
No, sir, it was a violation of OSHA.
22 Q.
I understand and I appreciate it.
23 A.
I would like to get that in there.
24 Q.
Temporary ladder holding a pipe.
25 A. No, sir, it was temporary hanger coming out holding 6'8
, .._---__s - _._ ,m.m __
6 F 1 the ladder which was going down into -- I said I thought 2- it was a D trench where Mr. Maxwell finally decided he 3
would go down on it and it was like six inches from 4
touching the floor on the other end standing straight up, 5
and that's where they made the peut of the concrete.
6 Q.
Is that going to affect the safe operation of Catawba?
7 -
A. No, sir, but it's a violation.
8 Q. Water on floor. Is that a violation of OSHA?
9 A. Yes, sir, it's a recognized hazard.
10 Q.
Something about water on floor just af ter pouring 11
-with concrete?
12 A. Correct, that was down in the D trench.
13 Q.
Was that that the concrete was too wet?
Id A. Yes, sir, it was flooded out down there. It had like 15 about an inch of water, and we had those little forms 16 around the pads of the permanent hangers that we placed 17 down the trench to hold up the pipe.
1B Q. Is that going to render Catawba unsafe?
19 A.
No, sir, but it's a violation of construction procedures.
20 Q. Of OSHA?
21 A. Both.
22 Q. Something here that says, "never caulk."
23 A. R ig ht , that's forms around --
24 Q. We just talked about that?
25 A. Yes, sir , r ight now.
kr
l f< Q. Wet rag on red hot spot?
1 l
l
~~
2 . A. Yes, sir on pipe. l 3 Q. That's Henry Knox?
4 A. Yes, sir, he was a welder that I witnessed coming out 5 of penetration room doing it.
6 Q. IS it your View that that incident renders that weld 7 .an improper weld?
8 A. It's against procedure. He told me himself he wasn't 9 suppose to do it.
10 Q. Do yoE know if that is a violation of procedures?
11 A. By what Henry Knox said, yes.
- 12 Q. Did anybody else. tell you it was a violation?
13 A. Somebody from NRC informed me also.
W 14 Q. Does that, in your view, render the weld improper?
15 A. In my view, yes.
16 Q. Do you know if that weld was inspected?
17 A.. No, sir, I don't.
18 Q. Do you know if that weld was ever approved?
19 A. No, sir , I don' t. All I know is that Mr. Maxwell said 20 he needed to find the weld. This other welder, Greg Sketo, 21 as I mentioned earlier also, he stated that to me. I talked 22 to him off the job. He stated that they used spot check 23 and did that same type of action a lot on pipe.
24 Q. Aside from what Mr. Knox told you, you don't know if that 25 was an improper procedure?
hv
- i f' 1 A. I had an NRC inspector or somebody, and I don' t know.
2 . Q. What NRC inspector?
3 A. I talked to many of them.
4 Q. You don't profess to be knowledgea'ble in the welding 5 procedures, do you?
6 A. No, sir.
7 .Q. With respect to all these welds that you have just 8 mentioned, you don't know if, indeed, they were originally 9 proper or improperly performed, do you?
10 A. Pardo[me.
11 Q. Do you know as a f act whether these welds we are talking 12 about were good welds or bad welds?
13 A. Rig ht , I don't know.
W id Q. Do you know if it was carbon steel welds?
15 A. Stainless steel.
16 Q. Don't tell the NRC because they shut plant down.
I'7 A. Correct.
la Q. I understand that comment. Does that have a bearing 19 on the safe operation at Catawba?
l 20 A. Well, it would keep people from sharing wrongdoings or 21 negligence or bad construction procedures or f aulty workman-l 22 ship.
23 Q. It didn't keep you from making any statements, is that 24 correct?
25 A. No, sir, i
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s 1 Q. Do you know if it kept any other people ,f rom making 2 . statements?
3 A. I'm not sure.
4 Q. Harrassing. You were talking ther'e at this particular 5 time about safety classes, and I think you pro ba bly have 6 some other things about harrassment.
7 .A. Right.
8 Q. What is harrassing?.
9 A. Okay.'
10 Q. Let md' ask you this.
H A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Harrassing which .in your judgment would impact upon 13 the saf e operation of Catawba. I understand that there
'N 14 may have been practices out there that were flat harrassing, 15 and you didn't like'them and other people didn't appreciate 16 t hem .
17 A. Right.
18 Q. I understand that situation,but I ask you if we are 19 going to discuss this su bject, does it have a bearing on 20 the safe operation of Catawba?
21 A. In my case of the harrassment toward m g it would not.
22 Q. Do you know if any other people were harrassed?
23 A. Phil Edwards was. He was that inspector.
24 Q. Do you know if any other people were harrassed?
25 A. People on our crew.
72 hv
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1 Q. Which crew?
2 - A. 90.
3 Q. Is that the one that had to wear the safety glasses?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. Because they had to wear safety glasses?
6 A. No, we were scaffold builders.
7 .Q. That didn't impact safety?
8 A. Righ t .
9 Q. Did Phil Edwards being harrassed impact safety?
10 A. Not uEless he took it out as a grudge against the 11 project, and I do'ubt it.
12 Q. Do you know if he took it out as a grudge?
13 A. No, I don't.
W 14 Q. Fellow scaffold hailders on 577 over hole with hand 15 rails 25 foot drop. That was an unsafe work condition?
16 A. Yes, sir, which is a violation of OSHA.
17 Q. But, not an impact on safe operations?
18 A. Correct.
19 Hide in corner. That's people who were taking drugs Q.
20 and alcohol?
l 21 A. No, these were just individuals that didn't want to do l
22 anything.
l 23 Q. That's just a practice that shouldn't be condoned, but 24 it does not --
25 A. We are paid to be out there to do a job as you are 73 b
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- 1 right now.
2 . Q.- I understand what happenes is people am taking money 3 for not doing work.
. 4 4 A. They are stealing.
5 Q. I understand that, but with respect to the impact 6 on Catawba --
7 .A. On the safe working -- ,
8 Q. Right, it doesn't have an impact?
9 A. Not that I know of.
10 Q. Valve [inbackwards, we have already discussed that?
11 A. Correct. I would like to say on that harrassment, it's 12 my background sheet that the papers that you did take, you 13 can read on that.
W f Id O. Okay, good, thank you. Cooling towers. Health hazard.
V 15 Rebar out of slab. Walking on top of cooling tower without to safety nets or belts tied off. No guard rails. No railing 17 re 30-foot channels. Those are incidents. The channels is are different.
19 Q. Are those all unsafe working conditions?
20 A. For employees, yes.
21 Q. Did they impact the safety of the plant?
22 A. No, but it's a violation. .
23 Q. I understand that. A witness statement that you gave 24 OSHA?
25 A. Yes, sir.
74 W
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' I Q. Would that have been OSHA concerns as opposed to saf ety 2 . concernes?
3 A. NRC.
4 Q. NRC concerns?
5 A. Yes, it does because my OSHA statement i sent it with a 6 statement to Washington, and I mentioned in there about 7 .taking Mr. Maxwell around and showing him all this stuff and 8 you probably have it.
- 9. Q. Not to cu t you shor t , it's in your --
10 A. Yes, Sir, it's in there.
11 Q. The witness s'tatem et would reflect the items we are 12 talking about and the things we are talking about and 13 have talked about?
W id A. Yes, sir.
15 I'm just curious. Is there going to be anything else Q.
16 in that witness statement. I will have you walk me 17 through the docum mts at the end, and we will determine 18 that. Electrical cable through pool of water. We have 19 discussed that?
20 A. Right, that was with Mr. Un, the OSHA inspector.
i 21 Hunt investigation, you gave him papers. Are those j Q.
i 22 papers in the file?
l l
23 A. Yes, sir, two of them.
24
( Q. We'll get to that. Safety ray cables, things dropped l
25 in water. We have already talked about that. Electrical 75 V
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f, 1 cables?
2 A. Find a frayed spot.
3 Q. No, I'm saying, electrical cables, things dropped on 4 them, in water. We have already discu'ssed that?
5 A. Right, coming out of the cable trays.
6 Q. What were you making reference to?
7 .A. The one of Mr. Un whenever Mr. Dugan told me that I 8 wasn't a representative, and I wasn't allowed to take him 9 around and show him stuff. When you were going back, there
~
10 was one laying in he water,and I said, "How about this,"
11 and he said, " Find a frayed spot in it."
12 Q. But, that cable was another example of electrical 13 cable that --
^h 14 A. This was just an electric cord like this to run our is power saws and stuff.
16 Q. I see, so that.wouldnt have an impact?
17 A. It wasn't one to run the machinery in the plant.
18 Q. Believe it or not, I have gone through the last night 19 and early this morning, an hour and a half. Let's see 20 what else we have and get you out of here.
Your counsel 21 directed us to certain I and E documents, and the first 22 one I'm looking at is 80-19, and reference is made to 23 employee concerns. I suspect that's you, is that correct?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. We are talking about rebar touching the ground, kv
F l
1 OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION 2 . Q.
I was going to read out the categories A through G 3
and see if we have already discussed them, and if we have, 4
fine; and if we haven't, we'll discuss'them.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q.
A is rebar tocching the ground in the rebar storage 7 , area.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Have we discussed that?
10 A. No, s[r, unless you want to talk about it through 11 the storage and handling of the construction procedures 12 170 -- CP 170.
13 MR. GUILD: Could you give us the pge reference?
14 Q. Let me just identify the document. It's the inspection 15 report 5 0-413 and 414/ 80-19.
It bears a Duke cover sheet 16 the date of September 16, 1980 and on the NRC inspection l'7 paper a date of September 10, 1980, and I'm referring to 18 page 3 of that; page 3 of t~n e attachment entitled " Details,"
19 item 6 entitled " Employee Concerns," and there are items 20 A through G identified as items of concern by the employee -
21 in question who is Mr. Hoopingarner.
22 A. Correct.
23 Q.
The first item we are discussing is reber touching the 24 ground in the rebar storage area.
25 A. Besides its an OSHA regulation and NRC also.
W 77
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Q. Did it impact the safety of the plant?
2 . A.- No, sir.
3 Q. Item B is --
4 A.
But, it's constant violations of t'he construction a procedures.
6 Q. I understand that. Item B, three sections of 7
. stainless steel piping touching the ground at the piping 8 field fab shop.
Does that impact the safe operation of 9 Catawba? -
10 A. Not th'my knowledge.
11 Q. Item C, manholes open on condensate and the reactor 12 t water storage tanks.. Does that impact the safe operation
, 13 of Catawba?
f 14 A. Not to my knowledge.
15 Q. Item D, scaffold boards on piping and electrical cable 16 lying onthe floor. We have just discussed that?
17 A. We have.
18 Q. Item E, sections of piping laying on concrete floor in 19 the auxiliary building. Does that impact the safety of 20 Catawba?
21 A. Not to my knowledge.
22 Q. Item F, sections of scaffolding that were unsafe. I 23 .
think we discussed that.
24 A. Rig ht.
25 Q. Item G, ladders improperly secured. I think we have W 78
u . . .. _ .
f-I already discussed that?
2 - A. Rig ht.
3 Q. The next --
4 A. I would like to bring you up to page before that, the 5 'two pages. One page before that on page 2c, diesel gener-6 ator cleanup that I was talking about.
7 .
Q. We have discussed that.
8 A. Right, that's where we talked about procedures.
9 Q. Again; all I'm trying to do is identify concerns, and 10 I don't d spute that some of these concernes are discussed 11 in other items. 'I don't mean to run over them. I just 12 want to find out from you in this limited time what your
, 13 concerns are. Now, let's look at another inspection report.
N 14 I and E inspection report, 50-413 and 414/ 80-8 and it is bears a Duke date of July 16, 1980 and NRC date of June 16 30, 1980.
17 A. And, I didn't receive it at home until the 18 of August.
18 They didn't mail it out till August 15 to me.
19 Q. Again, turning to the attachment captioned " Details,"
( 20 page 3, number 8 titled " Safety Concerns Expressed by Site 21 Employee," and if we turn to the -- Let me go through it 22 and see if -- see the concerns. Now, turning to page 4, and 23 it says in item A, "The employee expressed a concern that 2d l welding had been done improperly based on scaffolding. One 25 welding inspector had been strongly criticized by a supervisor 79 W
e
- m. , - - - , . _ - -. ._ , .m .p _
f-s i for rejecting unsatisfactory weld and almost been fired, 2
. and 3, employee had witnessed a welder quenching a hot 3 weld with a damp cloth.
We talked about number 1. We 4
talked about number 3, but we haven't ' talked about number 2.
5 A. That was Phil Edwards.
6 Q.
Item B then at the bottom of the page 4 is what I'm 7 .now looking at.
I'm now to page 5, and I'm looking at 8 item C. I think so the record reflects, item B doesn't 9
have any specific concern, would you agree with that?
to A. I didn't read it. Oh, yes. Well, it would be because 11 that's during the November 13 and 16 is whenever as it says 12 I went up and talked .to the inspectors and brought these 13 y
safety things up to them which would later on show that 14 I did contact the government agency to share my concerns, 15 Q. Fine, but the concern.you brought up are concerns we 16 are talking about today or they were OSHA concerns?
17 A.
Most of them was worker safety and negligence.
1B Q.
My point is in item B there is no specific concern that
] 19 is expressed. That's all I'm saying.
! We are talking about j 20 i
procedures, the fact .you came up and what not.
t l
21 A. Correct.
22 Q.
Now, we get to item C, and I believe they do discuss 23 specific concerns.
First is off center piping position l
24 and piping penetration. We have already discussed that?
25 A. Yes.
br
3 1 Q. Grout poured into wet concrete floors. We discussed 2 . that. Piping connected with mechanical connector. We 3 haven' t discussed that or have we. I don' t believe so.
4 What is that referring to?
5 A. I'm not sure myself Piping connected with mechanical 6 connector. The only thing I can -- well, maybe the 7 . tripods.
8 Q. Let me just ask you -- with tripods, would that have i 9 any bearing on the safe operation at Catawba?
10 A. Not th'my knowledge, but it's a violation of construc-11 tion procedures.
12 Q. Item C4 handling of carbon steel piping. We have al-
, 13 ready discussed that?
Y 14 A. Correct. I wou;3 like to bring up that this was .
15 whenever I took Mr. Maxwell around.
16 Q. I understand.
17 A. Okay, and there's a lot of things that I showed him is that was not reported in his report like the cables coming 19 out of the cable tray.
20 Q. I understand that.
21 A. He took num bers and nothing was ever done.
22 Q. I understand that, but you have told us today or you 23 are in the process of telling us today all the things that 2d you think are wrong with the plant. So, whether or not 25 Mr. Maxwell put it down is irrelevant because you are going 81
. ,--,-m._.. _ - - , - _ - . - - - - - - - . - - ,. . ~,. .
m * '
F 1
to tell us.
2 A.
Right, but I wanted to make that, 3 and there 's a lot 4
of other things also pertaining -- I showed him like that green water and all that other stuff. '
5 Q. Fair enough.
6 In your exit interview, there's attached your Malamute --
7 .A. My suggestion --
8 Q. Suggestions.
9 Do you have a copy of that here. I '
have another one here. It's not a good copy.
10 The sugges-tions seed to be six in number.
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q.
Let me see the first paragraph.
7 13 Is there anything ,
W at the top of the first paragraph -- Let me just identify .
14 the document for the record. It 's one page document en- '
15 16 titled "Artic Star Kennels" and dated March, 1980, 10 signed by Mr. Hoopingarner.
It looks like a scaffolding --
17 A.
18 It was the paper that Mr. McDowell wanted me to give to give that myself and the others brought up to our 19 supervis ion.
20 Q.
I understand the nature of the document, and all I'm 21 22 trying to do is f,ind out what this document is telling me are your concerns, and I see you have six specific 23 concerns.
24 A.
The whole thing is a concern.
25 You have to work together.
Q. Is that the sense of the first paragraph, working .
W 82
, --. - -. -- ,_e -
--3 ., w. . m , -,
E-o 1 together and getting the job done?
2 .A. Yes, sir, and have :the material to do it, the material 3
to build the scaffolds that we needed and --
4 Q. Does this concern impact the safe ' operation of Catawba 5
or is it more an OSHA concern and it's more of a building 6 scaf folding concern?
7 .A. It's more.
8 Q. The top paragraph.
-9 A. It's not safe impact on the plant.
10 Q. Looki$'g at items one through six. Needed supervision 11 downstairs.
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q.
Need of more material is number 2. Three is communica-IW 14 tion between men. Number 4 --
15 A. Man and boss and man to man.
16 Q. Number 4, improper building of scaffolds. Five, ne<~2 17 of cooperation between crafts and there's items A through la D. A, utilities falling on material; B, tearing down 19 scaffolds while they are still needed; C, building scaffolds 20 when they are not needed; D, craft being pulled off scaf-l 21 folds with job net not being completed; and what is this 22 next sentence?
23 A. Won't turn scaffolds loose.
2d O. Six says safety. Items one through six, these seem to 25 be, again, OSHA concerns, is that correct?
83
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1 1
A.
Crew concerns and management concerns.
2 . Q. Bu t , i t doesn' t impact safety?
3 A.
Maybe in the long run it could because we wouldn't have 4
the materials to build the proper scaf' folds for people 5
to do quality work off of.
6 Q. And, we have discussed that?
7 .A. Yes, sir.
I would like to bring up about the scaffolds 8
and the materials and the craf ts. See, we would have 9
people come up and sign up for scaf folds that didn't need
~
10 scaffolds. because they would just be an alibi of not having 11 to work.
They were sitting around waiting for scaffold 12 builders, they had a hangover and they were --
. 13 Q.
N 14 I understand, and that's consistent with people hiding in the corners?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Now, you had an opportunity to meet with Mr. Maxwell 17 on one occasion?
18 A. This was in mid-April.
19 That's whenever I first talked to him and shared that Duke Power was trying to fire me .
20 Q.
I would like to go through these documents. They 21 are documents that are in your file. Do you have these 22 documents or have you seen them?
23 i We are going to focus, A. I would like to have copies.
24 Q. You can have those. I just want to go through your 25 concerns. Let's go through the top one.
Steve Alexander, W 84
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. 4 E
1 and I think these documents reflect your concerns. Le t 's 2 . see -- let's walk through it. I get dokn to Henry Hodges, 3
cool a weld with water. Hodges is wrong, though, isn' t 4 it? Wasn't it Henry somebody else? '
5 A. No.
6 Q. I thought he had another name, but anyway, we have 7 .already discussed that.
8 A.
He.iry Knox was a black guy that worked up in the cooling 9 tower with us, I believe.
10 Q. Bu t , .Ehis cool a weld wi th wa ter is the same incident 11 we have discussed'before?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Here's Phil Edwards. We have already discussed him
. NV
( 14 before?
15 A. Yes, si r .
16 Q. And, now we get down to number one. We may have talked 17 about every single incident on these pieces of paper. I 18 want to confirm it. The next one is green water on concrete.
19 Is this the incident we have already talked about?
20 A. Yes, sir, but I didn't say it leaked into the UHI 21 building. I don't know. It probably rained in there and 22 was probably sitting in there holding, and I have a question.
23 Did they not take pictures or were suppose to have taken 24 pictures.
They walked around with cameras whenever --
25 Q. Let me just say you are asking the wrong person. I hr 85 i
. I
s e i
A. I heard they didn't have any film in the cameras is why 2
I'm asking.
Q. That sounds like me. You might be asking the right person. Number 2 is auxiliary building elevation 594.
5 This reflects scaffolds and stainless pipe supports. Are these incidents we have already talked about?
7
-A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Auxiliary building elevation 560 and auxiliary building 9
elevation'577, are these the same incidents we have already talked about, stainless pipe and --
A. Yes, sir, on 570.
12 Q. I'm sorry, go back to 560 on the first page. We have 13 g already talked about those items, is that correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And, now we get to the second page is auxiliary building 16 elevation 560, and basically have we talked -- or have we 17 talked about those points? I see oregon line, purging 18 instrumentation typing. I don't remember talking about 19 that.
20 A. It's more of the --
21 Q. The alignment?
22 A. No , sir, it's more of the hoses and cords, health 23 hazards safety violations which were in your way. You had 24 to move them and this kind of stuff.
25 O. Let me ask you with respect to this auxiliary building, av 86
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I 2
these are health problems, safety problems in the sense of impacting the workers' safety?
3 A. More or less, yes, sir.
Q.
And, not the safe operation of Catawba?
5 A. Correct, that I know of.
6 Q.
That you know of, and that's all we can ask you .
-A. Right.
8 Q. It says back side D trench.
' We have talked about water 10 on the floor and we have talked about poured grout on wet concr et e.- i How about oregon lines not protected? j A.
12 That's where Mr. Maxwell had to walk through and push them out of his way.
< I3 Q.
Y '#
And, we talked about those incidents?
A.
15 es, sir, and I was right, it was D trench.
Q.
16 I told you most 6 these we'll have gone through . Let
'7 me just see and make sure I have the right document. 519, 18 I will give you this, but we don't have to go through tha. t That's just a response.
" May 19, 1980, document, can we now focus on that?
O A. Yes, sir.
21 Q.
22 Let's walk through and see if there is anything new in here.
23 Safety concerns, air compressors and cooling tower
- yard refueled with diesel fuel while engine running. That's an OSHA concern?
25 A. Yes, sir, and personnel.
p 87 .
$M Ne'YI!
t' 4 1 Q.
Number 2, scaffolds -not properly built W <
2 cussed that, correct?
We have dis-
- i. .*% 3 A. Yes, sir. ,
gg- 4 Q.
Number 3, nets should be installed in c 5
We have discussed that, ooling towers.
6 A.
is that correct?'
Yes, sir.
um
..;: -7 Q.
'f Number 4, carbon monoxide noise levels 8 .
That's a health concern and not a Catawba operational 9
that correct? concern, i sn ' t 10 A. Ybs, sir.
11 d Q. Number 5, 7 12 drop cords and welding leads not seven eet f a off the floor.
1 13 Is this the housekeeping --
~
A.
kEr Yes, sir, housekeeping.
Id O.
We have already discussed that?
15 A.
. With the material, the s heet metal 16 air duct. , see, this was an
' 17 There are ones installed, and a lot of tha t 18 stuff was damaged, and I don't know if it was eve or not. r fixed 19
! Q. So, 20 in addition to being a safety --
A. A hazard --
21 ~
Q.
l 22 A hazard to people working on the site it be an operational concern. may or may not 23 You don't know one way or the other, is that correct?
i 24 A.
See, they stacked it all in and you would 25 I walk by -
i mean they weren't even putting it up 1 ,%sr They just built 88 l
I
'&am .
l'
&:* %J Y ._
0 e'
g 1 it up in the fab shop and brought it down 2
our way. , and it was in Du 6e!
3 If you walked by it and it would grab ahold of h 4 you and cut you and rip your clothes, and people just got k tired and started smashing it up.
5 Q.
I can appreciate that,
! 6 impact --
but now with respect to its t1 -7 3 A.
$k I don't know if it ever got fixed or not , and I B
L 9
don't know what kind of impact it would be on beplant with the coolant and the air flow.
10 Q.
Number 6, bug spray.
11 A.
That 's not a factor --
I I was the one that got sprayed.
?
12 Q. It was a factor to me.
13 A factor to you, .but not the safe operation of C atawba?
r
,h A. Right , and we found out they weren't suppose to have 14 that stuff on the job.
15 It was suppose to be somewhere else, 16 and my partner, Terry Green, was the individual thats wa sprayed with it.
17 We were in there building a scaffold and la the utility girl come in there and fogged us out .
Q.
Let's look at number 7.
19 Safety department mistakenly let propane gas from broken manifold -- that's OSHA 20 A. concern?
Yes, sir, axi gassed me on that one, too .
21 -
Q.
Number -- now, under general comments , number one.
22 That's 23 not a matter of impact to the operation at Catawba, correct?
You talked to Danny Powell?
24 A. It's violating my rights.
25 Q. Bu t ,
not impact of safe operation at Catawba?
NY T
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. o 1 1 A. But, I want to share 'some of the wrongdoings down in 2 - the hole.
3 Q. But, you are sharing them with us today.
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Number two, related incident involving foreman. This 6 is the knifing, correct?
7 .A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. We have already discussed that incident?
9 A. Parlay cards, knife to the throat.
10 Q. We ha[e already discussed that, correct?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Number 3, this is a notice concerning safety complaints 13 to be po sted , j ob I . That's a procedural matter, correct?
W
( 14 A. Yes, sir , it was through the 22 or 23 violation, 21 15 or whatever violations that I never did see and I never 16 did not because I always looked -- a lot of people go in 17 and look at the board, and the last time I was out there, 18 there had it all different. They changed it. They improved 19 their noticing of this kind of stuff.
20 Q. When were you last out there?
21 A. I went out on one of the open days, but this was before 22 they got rid of me. They had it better because they moved 23 the NRC from out of the main office into the little own 24 building.
25 Q. Were you satisified with the posting requirement?
90 W
1 A. Yes , sir .
2 Q. Number 4, concerning craf ts do not work together. We 3 have already talked about that conc ern, haven't we?
4 A. I like'the second sentence. '
5 Q . Causes waste which makes costs go up for public and 6 Community, but, again, that's not a Concern of --
7 _A. The plant being able to operate?
8 Q. Correct, is that correct?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Numbe,E 5, made suggestions to his foreman. Never got 11 any response. Now, -- and never got any response from Cecil 12 Wall or Steve Alexander on safety concerns. Now, aside 13 from that maybe being the case or not, I want to know about ,
~
14 the safety concerns, and that's what we are trying to find 15 out today.
16 A. It was more or less personal safety. It wasn't safety 17 more or less of the plant. Maybe through the safety of 18 the personnel having to do the quality work off of the 19 scaffolding --
2 20 Q. Which we have discussed?
21 A. Yes, sir.
t 22 Q. Number 6 is the piping and the centering of piping.
23 We have already discussed that, is that correct?
24 A. Yes , s ir .
25 Q. Number 7, I don't think.has any bearing on the matter.
91 b-hv -
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$- 1 Wbuld you agree? Something to do in the parking lot.
2 , A. Yes, sir, they chained us in.
l 3 Q. But, it has nothing to do with the safe operation?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Number 8, this is an OSHA matter, correct?
6 A. About advance notice?
7 ,0 Yes, that's an OSHA matter, correct?
8 A. Yes, sir, but we always knew five to ten days ahead 9 of tim e when OSHA was coming in and Olin Durham informed to me that t[ey would speculate when they were coming in and 11 that's why we stopped to clean up.
12 Q. Number 9, this is the alcohol problem and we have 13 already discussed that?
W 14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Number 10, this is the personal matter --
16 A. It's when I got cut and wanted to go to the doctor.
17 Q. Your concern there was --
18 A. Being taken care of properly.
19 Q. Just so the record reflects the cut wasn't imposed by 20 somebody like Mr. Tolen, but rather it was some job 21 related incident?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Number 11, anything you want can be brought to the job.
24 We basically talked about this, haven't we?
25 A. Okay, 92 kV
,, _ _ ._,m ___ - _ _ _ , . _ - -
,ta CJ t'
bF 1 Q. I'm sorry.
-2 A.
) I started reading it more af ter we turned the page.
r# 3 f That was talking about Luke Weaver.,
4 Q.
The fellow who fell and then came back the next day.
5 A.
They brought him in so they wouldn't have lost time o
accident on their hands.
7- Q. Again, that's not --
8 A.
It's not for the safety of the plant unless he was 9
trying to do quality work while being messed up.
10 Q. Do you know if he was?
11 A.
Within a month af ter he fell, the side of his face and 12 everything was drooping down and he was limping, so I don't I 13 know --
h 14 Q. That may be --
15 A.
That maybe hindered him from doing good work.
16 Q. I understand that, but do you know as a fact --
'17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. Let me just repeat the question.
You don' t know as a 19 f act that he didn't do good work?
20 A. No, sir, I do not know that he didn't do quality work.
21 Q. After this incident --
22 A.
Af ter the incident, no, sir, but there is a possibility 23 that he did not do quality work.
24 Q. But, again, you don't know that?
25 A. No, sir.
Y
f o 1 Q.
Number 11, plant as a hell hole.
When I first hired on there, 2 A. That was the nickname.
3 they informed us up in the office that down in there where d it was being built was a hell hole.
5 Q.
But this 11 has no bearing on the safe operation of 6 Catawba, is that correct?
7 .A. Right.
8 Q.
Number 12, this seems to be a personal matter, personnel 9 matter, would you agree?
10 A. Numbe[ 11 was, too.
11 Q. Would you agree with number 12.
12 A.
About Doug Beam hitting the scaffolding?
Yes.
Would you agree that doesn't have an impact on 13 Q.
W 14 the saf e operation at Catawba?
15 A. Well --
16 Q. You would agree with that, wouldn't you?
17 A. It all depends on how much mor e he hit.
Right, I agree.
Number 13, this is papers they laid 1B Q.
and that is a personal matter and doesn't 19 on you incident, 20 have a bearing on the safe operation at Catawba?
21 A. Right.
Number 14, this seems to be another personal matter and 22 Q.
23 doesn't have a bearing on the safe operation at Catawba, 2d wouldn' t you agree?
25 A. Well, they just wanted to get me out so I would not 94 W
l
- f. be able to get the documents or see the knowledge.
i 1 2 -
Q. I understand that.
3 A. And, maybe have an influence upon the plant.
4 Q. I understand, and now is your time' to have an opportunity 5 to influence the plant, correct?
6 A. Well, they shouldn' t have never took me out against 7 -me will.
8 Q. Bu t , again, that's a personal matter, wouldn't you 9 agree? '
10 A. Yes , s ir ,
11 Q. That's the sense of 14, wouldn't you agree?
12 Pretty much so. I wouldn't say fully, but I'll say A.
13 50/50.
. E9 3d Q. Well, it's a difficult one to get one's hands around.
15 A. Correct. .
16 Q. And, I understand your point if they hadn't moved you 17 out, you may have seen other thing s.
1 18 A. And , got documents , mor e proof --
l' O. But, all we can talk about today is what you have seen 20 and we are talking about that, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 15, I don't think we need to discuss this. It doesn't Q.
23 impact the safe operation, does it?
24 A. Everybody needs the Lord Jesus.
25 Q. I agree with that personally, but with respect to the 95 N
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- i safe operation, you would agree that there is no bearing?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Number 16, this is another drinking incident, and we 4 didn't discuss this one particularly, 'but because smoke 5 was drunk, do you maintain that has an impact on the safe 6 operation at Catawba?
7 .A. ' Not that night because he was a flagman for a crane, a but during other times, he was working and drunk, he could 9 have -- -
10 Q. Do you' know as a f act whether or not he did unsafe 11 work?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Number 17, we don't have to discuss this with respect 14 to the safe operation of Catawba, would you agree? d 15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Number 18, has no bearing on the safe operation of 17 Catawba, would you agree?
18 A. Just a minute.
19 Q. Eighteen, has been to Joe Colter who told him to come 20 on back and continue to do the good work he has been doing.
21 That may or may not be true, but that statement has no 22 bearing on the safe operation of Catawba, does it?
23 A. When I was still working for B. H. Tolen?
2d Q. Uh huh. <
25 A. No.
96 W
T 1 Q. Number 19, this has to do with work practices as opposed 2 to the safe operation of Catawba, wouldn't you agree?
3 A. Both.
4 Q. Okay, how does it relate to safe o'perations at Catawba?
5 A. When the foremen are sitting in the map shacks and 6 drinking coffee and trying to score on the utility girls, 7 .they don't know what their people that they have authority 8 over to do quality work or work they were appointed to do.
9 Q. Let me ask you this. Do you know as a fact that because 10 foremen sai in map shacks and drank coffee whether or not 11 that had any impact on the safe operation of Catawba?
12 A. Yes, s ir ,
y 13 Q. Do you know that bad work was performed?
(
14 A. Yes.
15 O. Do you know if that work was lef t undercorrected?
16 A. No.
17 Q. What bad work was performed?
18 A. Building of scaf folds.
19 Q. Any other, and we have already discussed that, correct?
~
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Is there any work that we haven't discussed? -
22 A. Well, see building of the scaffolds relate on end to 23 individuals doing quality work off of them.
24 Q. I understand , and --
25 A. And, it involved the other crafts.
%Y
- ~
~o
- f. I understand, and we have discussed that, haven't we?
1 Q.
2 . A. Yes, sir. -
3 Q. Is there anything else that number 19 would have a 4 bearing on?
5 A. Not that I know of at this time.
6 Q. Let's Continue. I think that is it on that document.
7 . Let me make sure the documents have been properly a identified.
9 A. I would like to enter something. I did bring up the 10 OSHA stat,Ement which you will find in one of the documents 11 you took to Mr. --
12 Q. But, again, those were OSHA concerns as opposed to safe 13 operations --
W 14 A. It was management concerns.
15 Q. As opposed to -- let me stop. Management concerns.
16 would that have a bearing on the safe operations at Catawba?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. How?
19 A. Because Doug Beam is in charge of all the management 20 out there or was at that time.
21 Q. What has Doug Beam done to cause you to say Catawba 22 won't safely operate?
23 A. Through his negligence of running that plant the say
. 24 it should be done. He is in chargn of -- you take the safety 25 paper, and general safety practices and the way we were 98 W .
ma ' r '"N' * * * ' - * ' - ' - - * * - ^ - - - * - - * * * - - ' ~ * - - --- - w-' -- H ----"
, . . . .a--.---._ ... .- - ..
I f
' ' suppose to be treated out there as employees.
2
.Q. But, the incidents that we have discussed today would 3
be the incidents that you say show that Doug Beam hasn't done a good job, is that correct?
A. It's what I witnessed out there over those couple of 6
years I worked.
7
~Q . Let me stop there. We have discussed those here today, 8
correct?
9 A. Yes, s'ir.
'O Q. What else?
II A. Through that Doug Beam -- I brought them to his knowledge, 12 through the management of our foremen, and I shared with
'3
- them -- every one of these foremen are responsible for Y 14 everybody -- themselves and everybody else as a saf ety --
15 Q. I understand that, but --
16 A. See, it all relates together.
Q. I understand that, but to support that allegation, what
-18 you would do is you would say, "Now, let me show you the 19 result of Doug Beam's poor leadership."
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And, let me just use the word alleged poor leadership, 22 and you would say, "Look at all these things that have 23 happened," and we have talked about those things that have 24 happened.
25 A. Right, 99 hv
F 1
Q. Correct?
2 .A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. No w, 4
let me just identify for the record the two documents.
5 One was the May 19,198 0, ' document on Duke Power Company stationery to R. L. Dick from D 6 . G. Beam 7
and the first document we discussed was an April 29 , 1980, B
. letter on Duke stationery, Steve Alexander, signed by Bob David.
9
~
SHORT RECESS 10 Q.
11 If we. could just identify for the record and have as 12 exhibits to the record the two documentse I ha and let's have the April 29, 13 1980, document be applicants' V Exhibit 1 and the May 19, 1980, document be mark d 14 e as Applicants' Exhibit 2, j is and the third document, and i t's captioned, 16
" Comments to Bob David Memo," dated 4/29/80 , and
.c's two pages and it 's unsigned.
17 A. I would like to--
18 On that last question that we talked about about Doug Beam and all is that through the management of l 19 what tb y 20 are suppose to do and walking or not endorsing the const ruc-21 tion procedures daily, monthly, yearly except when there was a big investigation or inspection could result 22 g, .I'm listening.
Go ahead.
23 A.
24 Could result in improper built nuclear plant .
Q. And, 25 the reason you make that statement is because of what you have seen in the plant, isn't that correct?
100
- t A
F 1 A. Yes, sir.
2 -
Q. And, we have discussed those items thus far?
3 A. Yes, sir.
J 4 Q. I understand your position, but again, so I'm clear, you 5
understand what I'm saying is that the support to your 6
allegation that Doug Beam hasn't done a good job is what 7 . you have seen out there?
8 A. Through his fingers, if you want to classify them, as 9 being for'eman and supervisor.
10 Q. Exachly.
11 A. Becau se he --
12 Q. You see the fruits of his actions on a daily -- on a basis .
13 You saw that when you were out there working.
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. We have discussed the. incidents you have seen. T ha t 's to all.
17 A. Some quite a bit.
18 Q. Quite a bit I would think, and you may have more. We 19 are not finished yet. I'm trying my best. I wanted to look 20 at the April 28, 1982 response of Palmetto Alliance to 21 applicants' interrogatories and number 90. Can I back up 22 for a minute. This is simply confirmation. Number 80A of .
23 the April 28, 1982 document, we had asked, I believe, what 24 your concerns were, and you said substandard workmanship 25 and poor quality control of the plant site. .
k 101 ^
.s . . ,
w 8 I
f 5
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 . Q. And, we have been talking about that.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And, you observed one work perform'ed by those under 5 the influence of alcohol. We have discussed that. Hazards 6 to workers' safety limiting quality. Have we talked about 7 .that? Is that what we have been talking about?
8 A. About the scaffolds and the health hazards and the 9 cords and the water --
Ic Q. Three[ improper handling and storage of materials such 11 as stainless steel and electrical cables. We' have discussed 12 that, is that correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
V 14 Q. Four , unresponsiveness to worknr complaints. We have 15 discussed that?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Five, pressures and retaliations against those com-18 plaining. We have talked about that?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Number 90, I want to ask you quei tions. Have you com-21 plained about what you alleged to be improper workmanship 22 and improper quality assurance and company pressures or 23 anything to any individuals at the job site, and I think 24 that was the sense of number 90, and you listed numerous 25 individuals.
102 W
- - -- 1
n---. - , . . _ . . . _ . . - . . .
1 A. Even outside people.
2 Q. And, outside people.
3 A. Not counting people I talked to every day.
4 Q. And, I just would like to read the names to make sure S
that these names would be the people who you would have 6
contacted concerning the items we have discussed today.
7 In other words, if I call out a name here and it relates a
to some item we haven' t discussed , can you tell me?
9 A. Yes,' sir.
10 Q. D. G. Beam; C. Wall; R. Morrison; J. Scruggs; R. H.
11 McDowell; O. Durham; S. Alexander; B. H. Tolen; R. R.
Pelfry; 12 D. Powell; J. Turner; R. David; C. M. Melton; Frank Cantrell; 13 G. Maxwell; M. Hunt; C. Alderson; R. Hemley; Borders.
h 14 A. OSHA.
15 Aun.
Q.
16 A. That was the inspector that came out on the site.
17 H. B. Zetler.
Q.
18 A. Federal officer.
19 Q. We have talked about the concerns you have made to these 20 people already today and yesterday, is that correct?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Then it also says concerns and complaints voiced to 23 otherapersons at South Carolina Public Service Commission, 24 EEOC, South Carolina Department of Consumer Affairs, U.S.
25 Department of Justice, FBI. Recognizing that you made ,
~
103
V %
f, I comments to those organizations, have we already talked 2 about --
3 A. We have gone through -- .
4 Q. Through die file and items you would have mentioned?
5 A. Yes, sir, except we didn' t start from the very first.
6 Q. I understand. We tried to do the best we can.
7 .A. In the tim e we have.
8 Q. I want to look at our initial contentions. I'm looking 9 for applicants' interrogatories of April 9,1982, and 'just
~
10 to put it in context, we have looked at number 90. There 11 is 91 and it says', "What were your specific concerns."
12 and you say workers safety, harrassment of workers, discrim-13 ination against workers, transferring workers to undesireable :
14 job, threatening workers; lives, negligence of Duke Power 15 Company in enforcing PPC, NRC and OSHA rules and regulations.
16 A. Yes, sir, I said that.
17 Q. Have we talked about the facts that underly that state-18 ment?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Are there any other facts that underly that statement?
l i
21 A. Just that we talked about it, but I would like to bring !
22 out that during the construction of the' Catawba proj ect ,
23 _that I witnessed negligence of the construction procedures 2d were violated every day.
25 Q. I understand that.
104 hv
g L-k 1 A.
Not.of all of the construction procedures because I 2 , don't know.
I know just a few, but the ones that I do
, 3 know was the ones that we shared with during meetings or 4
. that I found in the public documents dr --
5 Q. Righ t, and we have discussed that and you observed 6
this, but you are not able to state as a fact whether or 7
_ not those violations in your mind will compromise the a
ability of Catawba to operate safely?
9 A.
Not in my mind, but as by the book as -- suppose to go 10 by the co,Hstruction procedures is right out violations of n the manual.
12 Q.
I understand that that may indeed be a violation of 13 procedures .
( 14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q.
But, whether or not t. hat violation is going to result 16 in Catawba being an unsafe plant, you can 't state as a 17 fact because you didn't do the actual welding, you didn't 18 do the actual work, is that correct?
19 A. Right, and I'm not a scientist.
20 Q. I understand your position.
Now, let me just keep 21 going.
On number 92, it says -- they are all premised upon i
22 interrogatory 89, and 89 said, "Did you bring concerns to 23 the attention of various people." And, you did, yes, and 24 number 90 lists all the people and we went through that.
25 What were the concerns, and we have discussed that . It 105
- _ _ _ . . , - - - n --
@ L IP 1 says what was the response of the specific individuals, and 2
you said, "Many dif ferent responses. "
3 A. And, you have them all.
4 Q. And, we have them all there. Number 93, says -- this 5
is the answer to interrogatory 89 and it's affirmative.
6 Was there any subsequent action on the part of any of the 7
individuals or organizations referenced that has a bearing 8
on this contention, and your response is yes. Failure to 9
take corrective action, cover up of problems by PPC, NRC 10 and OSHA personnel.
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And, that's your statement?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. I understand. Well, failure to take corrective action.
15 What do you mean by that?
16 A. When I took Mr. Maxwell around --
'17 Q. I understand that. So, you are dissatisfied with his 18 handling of it.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. That's what this means?
_ 21 A. Yes, sir, and it works all the way up with the cover up.
22 Q. What is the cover up of problems by PPC?
23 A. OSHA.and NRC. They -- NRC, Mr. Maxwell, he covered up 24 l
all the wrongdoings that was going on out there. He walked 25 around with blinders on.
106 l
L 1 Q. And, PPC, they walked around with blinders on?
2 . A. Yes, sir, because they were violating the construction
, 3 procedures every day willingly more or less.
4 Q. And, OSHA, they walked around with' blinders on?
5 A. We always knew five to ten days ahead of time and 6 that way we had the place cleaned up.
7 . Q. Underlying this concern expressed in interrogatory 8 response 93, are the particular incidents we have talked 9 about today -- -
10 A. Yes,[ir,oryesterday.
11 Q. I have your documents in front of me, and that's the 12 last group and let me ask you this. Maybe I don't have to go 13 through these documents.
(rk_
14 A. I would like to.
15 Q. I don't know if I necessarily would with all due respect.
16 We have talked about your concerns today?
17 A. Yes, sir.
Is Q. As they relate to Catawba and the safe operation at 19 Catawba. Is there any other additional safety concerns 20 that relate to the safe operation at Catawba that we haven't 21 discu ssed ? -
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. I think that completes it.
24 A. But, I would like -- you know, you asked -- you told 25 me that you would go through them.
107 9 -- - -+-w-, e y.- =
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1 Q. Well, I think pro tably what has happened, quite frankly, 2 is we have gone through them.
3 A. On and off. , ,
. J d Q. I think on and off.
5 A. See, what I would like to do is just briefly get them 6 in line for you. It might take another ten minutes or so.
7 .It shouldn't take that long if we can keep from expounding.
8 Q. I think I appreciate that and maybe we can do it when 9 we complet~e the deposition, but as long as you have told
~
10 us what your concerns are and the record is a written docu-11 ment and has your concerns, I think that is all we are 12 concerned about right now, so I will conclude the deposition 13 and I would be more than willing to sit down, and you can b 1d help me put this in order.
15 A. Fine.
16 17 ,
NOLAN RICHARD HOOPINGARNER, II 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 108 kW
- - . g -- . ~_
% ' to m-l 1 STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA )
) '
2 COUNTY OF MECKLENBURG )
3 4
^
5 I, the undersigned Commissioner and Notary Public, 6 in and for the state of North Carolina, do hereby certify 7 .that Nolan Richard Hoopingarner, II, was duly sworn prior 8 to the taking of his deposition.
9 I do further certify that the foregoing one hundred -
~
10 and eight.pages constitute a true and accurate transcript 11 of the evidence given by the said witness as taken down
. 12 and transcribed by me.
13 This the twenty-sixth day of May,1983. _
(
h 14 l
15 J. b r 1s v BARBARA V. HAAS ,
16 Commissioner and Notary Public -
17 My Commission Expires:
18 April 23, 1987 ,
19 '
20 21 ,
22 23 24 25 109 b
t
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