ML20078L637
| ML20078L637 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Catawba  |
| Issue date: | 05/19/1983 |
| From: | Mcafee W PALMETTO ALLIANCE |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20078L617 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-83-434 NUDOCS 8310240021 | |
| Download: ML20078L637 (128) | |
Text
4: y(3 833559
.D b..>
j UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
~ NUCLEAR REGULATORY CO)OiISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD IN RE:
)
)
DUKE POWER COMPANY, Eoii~
et al,
)
Docket Numbers (Catawba Nuclear Sta
)
Units 1 and 2)
-)
50-413
)
50-414
'P h
h
- O W..
C..
MAY 19, 1983 6:00 P.M.
DEPOSITION OF:
WILLIAM RONALD McAFEE 8310240021 830810 PDR FOIA AHLERS83-434 PDR v
A9 Evelyn Berger Associates STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE
- p. o.
Ox se...
CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA 38259
=.
0 e
4 L A W Y E R 'S ~N OT E S Pas Um
~
,4..
S.'.
e e
M 4
O 6
E
.M4
- g'S' hW s
ee 3
P I
l l
l 4
(
1 9
i s.
i l
l I
i 9
l t
.__.,_,,...m.,
1 2
1
(:
2 APPEARANCES:
3 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
Charleston, South Carolina 4
Counsel en Behalf of Inte$'venor Palmetto Alliance,
_5 Incorporated 6
DEBEVOISE & LIBERMAN, ESQS.
Washington, D.C.
7 BY:J. Michael McGarry III, Esq.
and Anne W. Cottingham 8
ALBERT V. CARR, JR., ESQ.
9 RONALD L. GIBSON, ESQ.
Charlotte, North Carolina 10 Counsel on Behalf of Applicant Duke Power Compan:r II GEORGE E. JOHNSON, ESQ.
12 Office of Executive Legal Director 6S?.
Washington, DC 13 Counsel fon Behalf of Nuclear Regulatory Commission 14 ALSO PRESENT:
15 Jennifer Phillips 16 Government Accountability Project i
17 Betsy Leviticus Carolina Environmental Study Group ig Maureen O'Brien 39 datawba'Antion 20 Roger W. Ouellette 21 Duke Power Company Steve Alexander 22 Duke Power Conpa41y 23 James Allgood 24 Duke Power Company 25 George Grier u.
e-w.- on pony SWELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES (TENOft Pt RCPORTING SE RVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAmouwa v
rr----
e---i-ve---v--,
-w.#-
--~w
,--~
-r.---,-r-.v---
o 9a 1
ALSO PRESENT:
C:.,',
2 Michael F. Low'e Palmetto Alliance, Incorporated 3
Lee Ann Kornegay 4
Electronic Recorder Palmetto Alliance; Incorporated.
5 6
7 8
INDEX 9
Witness Direct Cross Redirect 10 William Ronald McAfee 5
117 120 I1 12
(.': -
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 k-24 g
EvgLTN SenGER ASSOCIATES. STSNOTYPE REPonTimo sg evect. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
.v
~
o 2
1 The Deposition of William Ronald McAfee is taken at
~
2 the offices of Duke Power Company, Charlotte, North Carolina,
~
3 on this the 19th day of May, 1983, in the presence of Robert 4
Guild, Counsel on Behalf of Palmetto Alliance, Incorporated;'
-5 J. Michael McGarry, III, Anne W. Cottingham, Albert V. Carr,Jr.
6 and Ronald L. Gibson, Counsel on Behalf of Duke Power Company; 7
and George E. Johnson, Counsel on Behalf of The Nuclear Regula-8 tory Commission.
'8 It is agreed that Lynn B.'
Gilliam, Notary Public in 10 and for the State of North Carolina, may take said deposition 11 in machine shorthand and transcribe the same to typewriting.
Gk w
13 WILLIAM RONALD McAFEE, 14 having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, was examined 15 and testified as follows:
16 MR. McGARRY:
Would you please state your full nane i
U for the record?
I8 THE WITNESS:
a'illiam Ronald McAfee.
I8 MR. McGARRY:
Mr. McAfee, today we are taking your o
deposition pursuant to a Notice of Deposition of May 4,1983 91 That Notice indicated that your Deposition will be taken on
~
2 Thursday, May 18.
That was a typographical error, it was Thurs<
day,'May 19.
94 That Notice of Deposition reflected that the deposition 25 be taken in Columbia. South Carolina.
However, in discussions EVELYh SERGEm ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPomTING SEnvH:E. CMaarLOTTE. NOmTM CAmouMA a
e e
McAFEE - Direct a
h with your Counmal, your preference to have your depocition, taker 2
after work was made.known to us;.and.in accommodation to you, 3
we are taking'the depos'ition.
4 I would like the Record to reflect who is in attendance.
- 5 (Whereupon, those in attendance made their iden-6 tity for the Record as follows:)
7 MR. GUILD:
Robert Guild, Counsel for Palmetto 8
Alliance, Intervenor in the Proceeding.
MR. GIBSON:
Ronald Gibson, Counsel for Applicants.
10 MR. CARR:
Albert Carr, Counsel for Applicants.
II MR. McGARRY:
Michael McGarry, Counsel for Applicants.
12 e
MR. JOHNSON:
George Johnson, Counsel for the NRC Q':.
13 Staff.
MS. PHILLIPS:
Jennifer Phillips, Government Accounta-15 bility Project.
f Ms. LEVITICUS:
Betsy Leviticus, Carolina Environmental 16 l
17 Study Group.
I 18 MS. O' BRIEN :
Catawba Action.
I' MR. OULLETTE:
Roger Oullette, Duke Power.
90 MS. COTTINGH.'W.:
Anne Cottingham, Counsel for the 21 Applicants.
l 22 MR. ALLGOOD:
James Allgood, Duke Power, Catawba.
23 MR. ALEXANDER:
Steve Alexander, Construction Depart-24 ment at Catawba.
25 MR. GRIER:
George Grier, Corporate Q.A. Manager, Duk e.
eveu....
eki.n...r orre.
.m
. vies. comorre. om c..ou.
e-e
[
McAFEE - Direct 1
MR. McCARRY:
Let the Record show that there are no 2
other individuals hres'ent in this room.
Before we start the Deposition, I think it would be, 3
4 appropriate to get ground rules straight.
First of all, you-5 ught to be awaro this Deposition is being taken pursuant to 10-CSR.
6 Your testimony is under oath; thia Deposition may be 7
g used in either Discovery by Applicant, or Palmetto Alliancer
.9 or it may, at our election, be used in Evidence at the Hearing.
10 At the completion of this Deposition you will be furnished a copy of the Deposition to correct it for.any typo-33 12 graphical errors, not for substantive errors.
f-13 Throughout the course of this Deposition, if you have any changes in your testimony,.this is the time to make those g
changes.
15 16 I want to make sure you understand any questions that are asked of yout if you don't understand, ask me to repeat.
g With respect to answers, nodding will not suffice.
The Court 18 Reporter and the tape recording will have to pick up the verbal 19 response.
THE WITNESS:
I understand.
21 MR. McGARRY:
Let's' get into the Deposition.
DIRECT EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. MCGARRY:
(
24 0,
Where do you live?
25 A
Route One, Box 69; York, South Carolina 92745.
EVELvN SERGER ASS &. BATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SEnveCE. CHARLOTTE. NomTM CanoWNA
?
-- - - -,.. _. - -.. ~ -
3 l
McAFEE - Direct 6
1 Q
How long have you resided at that address?
p.3
'2 A
Approximaiely three years.
3 4
Before that time what was your address?
4 A
2161, India Rock Road, Rock Hill, South Carolina,29730.
5 4
How long did you reside at that address?
G A
Approximately two years.
7 4
What is your educational background?
8 A
Graduate 1972 York High School; 1975 BA, Gardner Webb 9
College.
I did graduate work at Vanderbilt: University in the 10 area of the Old Testament.
11 4
Where is Gardrier Webb?
12 A
Boiling Springs, North Carolina.
C7I 13 4
And your major?
14 A
Biblical Literature a.nd Languages.
15 4
Would you describe your college education; is that 16 Liberal Arts education?
17 A
Yes.
18 4
Did you focus on scientific courses?
19 4
go, 20 4
Were you in the Service?
21 A
No.
22 4
Did you attend any technical schools?
23 A
No.
24 q.
What jobs have you held?
25 A
Well, I was an assistant to the Hebrew Professor at avgLTN SENGge AsgOCsATES. STENOTYPE ASPONTihG SanveCE. CHARLOTTE. MORTM CAROuMA
M]AFEE - Direct 7
p 1
Gardner Webb for two years.
After that --
q.
l 2
4 Let me stop there, that job would entail assisting 3
him.in" Hebrew st'udies?
4 A
Assisting him as his secretary,and also teaching l
- 5 assisting.
6 4
In Hebrew studies?
7 A
Hebrew studies and Biblical studies.
8 4
That was approximately what years?
0 A
That was '73 to '75 10
-Q And the reason for leaving?
11 A
The reason for leaving, I graduated.
12 4
What was your next job?
C 6 v
13 A
Well, I had several sales jobs when I was in graduate 14 school in Nashville, Tennessee.
None for very long, they were 15 all just part-time jobs.
Would you like me to be more specific?
16 4
Start with an example and we will make that determina-17 tion.
18 A
For example, I' sold pre-need cemetary spaces.
19 Q
For how long a period of time?
20 A
Six months.
21 4
Why did you quit that job?
22 A
Well, I went home for the summer.
I went back to 23 South Carolina.
24 4*
So we have a complete record, what other jobs have 25 you had?
' " " ~ " " " "
" " " ~
l
t McAFEE - Direct 8
1 A
Okay, after quitting Graduate Schcol in December of i
2
'76.I began work fo'r Duke Power Company as a Utility Worker 3
March 29,1977. - I was' Utility Worker in various capacities.
4 I poured concrete, I cleaned concrete forms; and then I became 5
pre-pour runner for th'e Utility Department.
Then I eventually 6
became a Secretary for the Utility Depar' ment Office.
Than I t
7 was transferred to the Electrical Quality Control Group, where J
8 I w'orked for approximately nine months until I quit.
Since 9
then --
10 4
Let me ask you to slow down for a minute.
You left 11 Vanderbilt in December of '76, and you began work for Duke.in 12 March of '77; Right?
6:.s.-
V.
13 A
In the meantime, excuse me, I did substitute teaching 14 for York School District Number One, Ycrk, South Carolina.
15 4
What was the subject?
16 A
Substituting was anything and everything.
17 4
What grade?
IS A
Nine through twelve.
19 4
Did you substitute very often?
20 A.
From three to four days a week.
21 4
Now, you were moved pretty quickly once you got to 22 Duke; but as I understood it the first job was pouring concrete,
23 the second job was pre-pour runner, Secretary to the Utility s
24 Departbent Office; and number four job was Electrical Quality 3
Control Group.
Is that correct, there were four different jobs EVELT'e SEmOEW ASSiHl;4ATES. STENOTTPE mEPORTdeG SS WWH:E. CuanLOTTE. NORTM CARObsMA
_, = _
McAFEE - Direct 9
{?
' yod : held %fle' 'at';Ddke~2 Pow 6r Company?
I 2
A Correct. -
3 4
You left Duke Power Company; Is that correct?
4 A
That's correct.
5 4
When?
6 A
March 16,78.
7 4
Why.did you leave?
8 A
I was'very concerned about nuclear technology in
-9 general and even more concerned about the way Duke Power was 10 building their nuclear plants.
11 4
Are you a member cf Palmetto Alliance?
12 A
- Yes, p.~,
13 4
What is Palmetto Alliance's Charter, if it has one?
14 A
I'm not familiar with the specifics.
15 4
If someone asked you what does Palmetto Alliance stand 16 for, what does it represent or what are its goals, how would 17 you respond?
18 A
They are a conrumers group which advocates alternativ e l
19 forms of energy and is opposed to nuclear generated electricity 20 4
Does Palmetto Alliance want to see Catawba built?
21 A
1 can't speate for the organization.
t l
22 4
Do you want to see Catawba built?
23 A
No.
24 g,
Why don't you want to see Catawba built?
l 25 A
Because I think if it is built completely and put on l
l
.m,~,.............,~.........-o....c...
McAFEE - Direct 10 1
line, it will represent a public health hazard, whether it op-
~
2 erates correctly, in quotes, or in the case of an accident it 3
would be a much greatei' hazard.
4 4
So your concern is one of health effects from routine 5
and accidental releanes; Is that correct?
6 A
Yes, and if I might add, the reason I'm concerned 7
about the routine operations of the plant is because there were 8
things that went on there when I was employed there which were 9
not according to NRC Regulations and were not according to 10 OSHA Safety Sthndards.
And the reason I bring in OSHA is be--
11 cause it is very hard to wel. a pipe when you are up on a shaky 12 scaffold and weld it correctly.
Py-13 4
Did you build scaffolds?
14 A
No.
15 4
Did you weld?
16 A
No, I didn't.
It is very hard to inspect a cable 17 tray hanger on a shaky scaffold.
Whereas I did not build scaf-18 folds, I know when I'm standinE on a shaky scaffold.
19 4
Are you a member of any other group aside from Palmetto 20 Allianec?
21 A.
Any other group as'far as --
22 -
4 Similar ncture to Palmetto Alliance?
23 A
I am a member of Catawba Action.
24 48 What is Catawba Action?
25 A
We are a local York County group basically conserned
...,.......a1......,,,-..-...~.a.-..-c-
I Mc FEE - Direct 11 g.,
about the Catawba Plant and this construction operation.
1
- . a:
2 4
Does that group want to see Catawba built?
3 A
I canriot speak for the group.
4 4
Are you a member of any other group.
t 5
A No.
6 4
Are you a member of any professional crganization?
7 A
No.
8 4
Do you recallnpreparing an Affidavit that was.used 9
in the original Petition to Intervene by Palmetto Alliance in 10 this case?
11 A
Yes.
'2 4
I.hanil you a copy of the Affidavit of William R. McAfe e
,, i 13 dated July 22, 1981, which was appended to Palmetto A111ances' 14 initial Petition to Intervene.
Does that Document appear to be 15 a copy of the Affidavit I made reference to?
16 A
Yes.
17 4
Did you prepare that Affidavit?
18 A
Yes.
19 4
Did you receive assistance in preparing that Affidavit?
20 A
Assistance in what manner?
21 4
Did you discuss the language of that Affidavit with 22 any individual?
23 A.
As far as the language, No.
24 4'
Did you discuss preparation of that Document with 25 any individuals?
EVELYN SENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTtw4 sgaveCE. CMAmLOTTE. NomTM CanOuma
McAFEE - Direct 12 1
A I read affidavits which had been prepared in the 4
2 summer Nuclear Lice'nsing Case, and got a basic f.3rmat.
3 4
Did you write that Affidavit yourself without assis-4 tance of any other individual?
.5 i
A I did.
6 4
Are you familiar with that Affidavit today?
7 A
I can't quote it.
8 4
Take a minute and read it, would you please (indicat-9 ing)7 to
-A Sure.
11-4
' Does that Affidavit placperly reflect your viewstwith respect to the construction of Catawba?'
12 3...g 13 A
At that time, yes.
14 4
Do you have any other concerns concerning the construe-15 tion of Catawba?
16 A
Are you wanting me to get very specific as far as 17 exactly where my concerns lie?
18 q
y,3, I
A Okay, do you want me to get spec'ific, I'll be glad 19 to:
While I was pre-pour runner I witnessed concrete poured 20 in A.Ownguys' of rain with n'o rain protection.
As I said, I 21 was pre-pour runner.- I went up to the pour, the concrete on 22 the Reactor Building One containment.' The concrete had too 23
+
24
-much trater in it by anyone's reasonable standards.
It didn't 25 look like concrete.
It had water floating on top of the concre :e, EVELvm SSeets ASSOCtATSS, STENOTTPE mePomTime SERWICE. CMA amt. NC ATM CAmouma
McAPEE - Direct I
13 k7 and I'll say here I'm not a concrete inspector, but reason shou'..d 1
3 Also, as pre,-pourz runnerdon ibecation thil. A. Depart 2
prevail.
a ment, which at.tha6 time was separe.te from the Q.C. Depah ment, 3
)
4 waived requirements on concrete forms in order to let the Construc-Ss tion Department make the pours, even though the requiiemen$s wer e
6 not met.
7 Okay, after I.bac~ame, a Quality Control Inspector.I 8
witnessed a lot:.cf. work..and.very..large percentage -work, not a 9
major, but a large percentage: of work which was not don ~e-correc t-10, ly the first time 'oecause the construction personnel were n~ot, 11 in many cases,' informed how to do the work.
4-12 There are construction procedures which the construct $on
. e 13 craft pecple are supposed to follow'.
For instance, in installir g 14 anchor bolts, we.got lectures on the' construction procedures.
15 Unfortin:stely, apparently the craft people did not, whereas we 16 knew how to install them from our inspections.
In the cases, 17 the craft people did not how to install them.
l 18 In one particular case I went down to inspect a cable l
19 tray support in Reactor Building One Pipe Checks.
We were told l
2 by the Welding Foreman,. Cecil Cox, these cable tray supports were I
21 l
finished and ready for inspectica.
We went down to inspect them 22 and found an anchor bolt which we could not verify the length of 23 As a result of that we went back up to the Quality Control Shack
[
24 and men'tioned,that we we.reinaturally going to write an NCI on 5
it.
gwgLYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPg agPORTING SERVIC3. CMARLOTim. NORTN CAROLINA
__-,,,.m
/._.___,,.m_,,,.
-,_,....,.,.,__.__,__,.-_,____m__.
_ _ _ _ -.., _.. ~
MnAPFR Oivent 14 f,.,
1 One of my supervisors, Jim Allgood, told me to wait c.;
2 a minute, he wanted to check it out.
He went down and checked
~
8 it'out and said he could determine a marking on it.
I said 4
"Well, if'you can determine a marking on it you sign it; you' 5
At that point he said'"Well, we will do an are certified."
6 x-ray or radicgraph. or whatever."
So I said " Fine."
7 The next day I was told that the test had been done 8
and that the anchor bolt was, in fact, long enough.
~
Q It'was or was not?
10
- A.
It was; when I asked to see the evidence I was told 11 And I have yet, on no uncertain ferms that I was a smart ass.
12 g-to this day, to'see any evidence that that concrete anchor bolt 13 is the length it is supposed to be.
I do not know if the ancho:?
14 bolt was ever verified as to its length or Whether it was evere 15 corrected if it was not long enough.
16 4
Is.that it?
.17 A.
May I refer to some notes, please.
18 l
4 Sure.
(
19 MR. GUILD:
Counsel,let me say if you want to 20 l
rely on Mr. McAfee's recollection or unprompted by.
21 documents that you obviously have available to you, 22 that is fine; but of course, there are a number of l
l 23 documents that have already been provided to the l
(
24 Applicants in Response to Discovery.
If you want to 25 0110!' him to refresh his recollection b*
"*y h*
"bl*
...,.......,....,...-...-..e.-,,..~..,-
g
\\;
g.
MeAFFE Diveet 15 g,
I to a'ddress some other points.
a d.
l 2 ~
MR2'McGARRY:
We may get into that, but now I 3
want his specific recollection of those incidents that s
4 were of concern to him while at Duke Power Companya 5
'MR.. GUILD:
On the Record, I will ask that'he 6
not refer to the notes, but just hi? rhcollection.
7 8
BY MR. McGARRY:
i
-9 4
Do you recollect any other instances that were of 10 concern to yod?
11 A,
I was very concerned about important document control 12 or inadequate. document control, I should say, in that quite often
,y.
13 we went down to inspect work which was done on the basis of supe r-14 ceded prints, prints that have been revised.
These prints were 15 never supposed to have been in the fie]d unless they were super-16 ceded; and that is the best of my recollection at this time.
17 4
You have been aware that your Deposition was going f
18 to be taken for now some_ ten-plus days; Is that correct?
19 A
Yes.
l 20 4
Have you reflected, in preparation for this Deposition,
l l
21 as to your concerns regarding matters you observed while employed
~
l 22 at Duke Power Company?
23 A
Yes,' sir.
.4i Are the instances that you have now related the sum N-24 l.
25 and substance of your recollection?
Ewf Ltae esacts ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE atPomTING SemyICE. CMARLOTTE. NOfrTM CAmouMA e
-*,----e w
+
,,,-~,..---w
.r-.-,-,+---,.---,-,m,
..,.-m.
,.em- - -,
-m w.-,-
,-3-----e+--,.
16
..McAFEE - Direct Ii
,c -
1 A
At this time, yes.
2 4
With regard to the Affidavit, how did you become in-
~
3 volved in this case?
4 A
Well, I read in the Evening Herald Newspaper that we 5
had ten days to Intervene in the Catawba License; and at that 6
point I contacted Bob Guild, Attorney for Palmetto Alliance,'in 7
reference to whether Palmetto Alliance would be interested in 8
Intervening and to find out the process' whereby we would Inter-9 vene.
10 Q
Were you a member of Palmetto Alliance at that time?
11 L
no -.
12 4
When did you become a member of Palmetto Alliance?
Set
- r 13 A
In July, it's July of '81.-
14 MR. GUILD:
The year is in the Affidavit, is.in 15
. the document, I think.
16 MR. CARR:
Let him testify.
11
=
18 BY MR. McGARRY:
4 I hand you a copy of Palmetto Alliance's original 38
, Contention 6 (indicating).
Will you rer.d that Contention?
20 21 4
7,,,
22 4
It is simply the first two pages.
23 A
Okay.
24 g.
Are you familiar with that Centention?
25 g
7,,,
EVELYN SERGEk A ESOCIAfts. STENOTYPE REPORTtb4 SE Rv6CE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAh0UNA
- n.,.. - -. - - - -..,,, -... - -, -., ~.
McAPER - Di eet 17 j
1 Q
Did you assist in the formulation of that Contention?
g.
r.2, 2
A Yess '"~'"--
3 4
Explain how yo'u assisted in the formulation of that 4
Contention.
5 i
Well, I m the Qilality Control Ir.spector who complained A
of systematic deficienci,es,.;
~
7 4
And is it correct in saying that the bases for that 8
position are the. specific instances that you have referredito
'8 today?
'l0 A
Yes, sir.
4 And no other instances?
12 p,
A No.
13 4
I'm correct in saying "And no other instances"?
Is I4 that correct?
15 A
No, I'm saying you are incorrect.
16
~
4 What othe,r instances are you referring to?
II A
Well, there was an instcree of the control rocm roof I'
raining.
This was while'I was inspector.
Another inspector I8 NCIed the entire centrol room because the control room boards 20 got soaking wet because of rain because the roof above the 91 ediling had not been sealed, and when it rained water stood on 92 the roof, seeped through the concrete, and leaked all over the
'3 control board.
That was a matter of concern.
I was not directly
~
94
~
related' to that because another inepector, in fact, wrote the 25 NCI.
tytLvN samGte ASSOCIhTts. BTENOTvrt REPORTING SSRvect. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CanOUNA
, _ _. _. _. ~ _ _., _... _,.,.. _.,.. _,
i McAFEE - Direct 19 fg 1
4 Are there any other instances that underlie concern Qi 2
expressed in the original Centention 67 3
A.
Yes, on a couple Contentions, I was walking through 4
the plant.
We were just beginning to pull cable at Catawba.-
5 We had specific regulations that said these cables had to be protected when they were pulled.
They had to be hung up and 6
7 kept out of any danger of being damaged.
It wasn't uncommon to 8
go around and see cables which had been cut down, cables which 9
had walk boards laying on them, cables which were being walked to on, cables which were in the water.
11 4
Just so we get an understanding.
12 A.
Yes.
p:s 13 4
I can understand why you didn't recite the control 14 room, particularly when I asked you previously to list all in-15 stances of concern t'o you, because I would imagine the basis 16 would be you heard about that from some other individual.
How-17 ever, the example you have just referenced, walking through the 18 plant, you walked through the plant and you saw cables being 19 walked on.
And the very first example that you gave me, you 2
talked about pre-pour runner, when you were a pre-pour runner 21 and you saw rain in the concrete.
You indicated on the Record 22 that you were not a concrete inspector, however, that was of 23 concern to you.
I asked you on at least two occasions were N
24 there any other concerns.
I believe the Record reflects this 25 last example should have been indicated to me and to this Evf L7N SE RGE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTwpg mapONTshG SEmytCE. CNARLOTTE. NO8FF.* CAmOuMA
,_s.,
~,_
~ _ -..,,., _ ~
-,,m,
.. _.. -. - - ~., - -
_-._,-,___-,--,-.,-.-,m_,..,._,.-_.
weawww _ niv.y*
, o 1
Leposition'at that time.
~
I'm asking you for the last time, are there any other 2
I 3
cencerns that you have regarding the specific construction of
~
4 Catawba, whether you witnessed them, yourself, or you heard 5
about them.
G MR'. GUILD:
Counsel, I will ask that we try to 7
8 void the argumentive tone.
I think that much of the 8
difficulty would be solved if you simply provide Mr.
9 McAfee access to the stack of Documents that you have 10 sitting in front of you, which have reflected his 11 earlier recollection" of concern.
12 This is not a guessing game, he is being as
%=
13 forthcoming as we can to open-ended questions.
I 14 would suggest specific questions that address previoun 15 answers might, Mr. McAfee, would generate responsive l
l 16 answers.
But you don't see him thinking of everything; 17 responsive to your open-ended question.s 18 I suggest'that you made that point and it would 19 be more productive to get to the specific question.
20 MR. McGARRY:
We will ask for specifics.
21 i
22 BY MR. McGARRY:
Z3 I have a pending question; there is a pending ques-24 tion: 'Are there any other concerns that you have, either which 25 are based upon your personal observationb or matters that you EVELYN SS AGER AS60CIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING senv Ct. CMamLOffE. NONTM CAROUNA e
.,__.,,,,,..,_,,.gm.,.m..,,,_,,_7We-tvrw
- v---*-n
- 'se'-wN-e'-
Y-w -
et- - - = -rv
--Py-
-*-r
..--m-=
.-,y
.-_,...r..-
,,,,,.,.,-.,-,_-...y
McAFEE - Direct 20 I
heard about, concerning the construction of Catawba?
2 A
Yes, I was very concerned about the work load of the 3
welding inspectors because they were under a great deal of strens i
from the craft and from craft supervision to get the job done, 5
or at least to get the okay on the job, whether the job is actuall P
done correctly or not.
I witnessed this as a pre-pour runner 6
7 having to deal with welding inspectors and being in the inspec-8 tion group.
9 I talked with welding inspectors and saw some of what to they went through in having to deal with the craft supervision.
11 4
Any other f.tems?
i-12 A
Yes, I was concerned that my training for Quality s.
13 Control Inspector was carried out in what I considered to be a 14 second-hand manner in that a person training us was receiving
~
15 his instructions or; instruction from another person who was in-16 charge of the Quality Assurance at the. Cherokee Station at that 17 time.
18 I never met the man, although he signed my certifica-19 tien papers.
That concerned me.
20 Q
Any other concerns?
21 A
Not that I can recall at the present, but as my Counse l said, if some Documents were made available to me I'm sure I M
23 could recall more.
24 4>
I asked you to turn to the last page of the Document and I represented to you that that is the Contention as worded 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENCType asPORTING SEnvH:E. CMamLOTTE. NORTN CAmouMA
_~
WavvR ni met 21 rp by the Board and. Iin ~a'n' order r of December first,1982.
1 2
I make referen'ce to the intended quote five lines 3
from the bottom.
Would you read that, please (indicating)?
4 Are you familiar with that Contention?
.6 5
4
- yes, 6
4 Do you agree with that Contention?
7 4
7,3, 8
4 Can you testify ' in support of that Contention?
9 A
Yes.
10 4
Can you testify with respect to systematic deficienci'!:s?
11 A
If more Documents are made available to ur, yes.
4 On the basis of the information presently known to 12 you can you support a syst.ematic deficiency alleg tion?
13 a
14 I,et me clarify that.
15 A
Please.
(
q 7,n speaking about you, yourself; not Palmetto Alli-16 17 We are taking the Deposition of Mr. Ron McAfee today.
ance.
Can you personally substantiate a systematic deficiency alle-18 18 gation?
A Would you define " systematic deficiency"?
20 MR. GUILD:
Counsel, I would like to suggest 21 that, as you know, the Contention is a legal pleading 22 and pleads conclusions of Law that support the relief 23 that Palmetto Alliance has sought; and I would suggest
~#
25 if Counsel would direct the question to a specific EVELYN S8908m ASSOCIATES STENOTv9 ? mePORTING SERysCE. CMAmLOTTE. NONTM CAROUNA
,-.--~w-
~.,,, - -,
--.---~, -
vc a rrw _ n <,.. -+.
72 ef.
factual matter that is within the Witnesses' know-2
~
ledge, I'm sure he can respond.
MR. McGARRY:
Let me clarify the Record in dis-4 cussing the original Contention, Mr. McAfee.
You 5
indicated yes, you were familiar with that Contention 6
and you were invol',ed in drafting it.
7 And you made reference to that last sentence:
g "A number of former Duke Power Company construction C
9 U"
O O
8E"U 9
have complained of systematic deficiencies in plant construction and company pressure to approve faulty 11 workmanship."
12
' S-i BY MR. McGARRY:
13 Q
Rather than me defining the definition, I would like you to answer my question.
15 A
Oh, I define " systematic deficiencies," as def3ciencie s 1G that are wide-ranging within the whole system,. and particularly the systera of Quality Control, which at Catawba, was lacking.
18 0
You define systematic deficiencies as matters, "that 19 are wide-ranging."
And then you referred to Quality Control.
20 Repeat that; I lost you.
21 A
In other words, something other than just minor in-22 stances; in my case the systematic deficiency which I had reference to was the whole system of Quality control, which at 23 Catawba was not administered according to 10 CFR and according
.(
24 to Duke Power's own regulations.
3 EVELYN SEmOER ASSOCLATES. STENCTYPE R9PORTimeG SEXpCE. CMARLOTTE, NOsrTH CAmouseA 1
McAFEE - Direct 23
~
fjl 4
What is the basis underlying that position?
How do 1
you support that allegation?
2 3
L My personal experience.
4 What is that experience; give us an example of that 4
5 experience.
A That experience is e n I was told not to write NCI's 6
7 although as an inspector I was required by law, I believe.
4 When were you told not to write NCI's?
8 A
In the case of the anchor bolt which I c~ted earlier.
9 10 I was told not to write the NCI.
4 Were you eve 2* told on another occasion not to write II 12 an NCI?
g s
A Not just blatantly; we were discouraged to write NCI' I3 s.
I4 We were encouraged to find other means to solve the problem.
4 Lebs explore that forva moment:
You were e.9eouraged 15 16 to find other means to resolve the problem?
17 A
Right.
18 4
Can you give me an example?
A Yes, we were, well, on the other cable tray supports:
19 when we told our supervisor that there was something wrong with oo them and tre asked his opinion, shall we NCI them; and he said 91 "No, lets talk to the craft foreman."
4 Did that bother you?
f.(
9 A.
At that time it didn't, no; because as it turned out 4
25 4
Can I stop there?
EVELYN et AGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CNARLOTTE. NORTM CA#CuMA
~
o McAPEE - Direct 24 1
A Can I finish what I'm saying?
c.7.,
O; 2
4 Certainly you can.
3 A
As it turned out, in some cases it was much more 4
effective 'as far as getting the problem resolved to go talk to 5
the craft foreman because in some insi,ances he would go correct 6
the problem without going through the paper work of the NCI.
7 4
Just taking it step by step, do you have any difficulty 8
in a suggestion made by you supervisor, "Lets go talk to the F
9 craft foreman' in the first instance, without knowing what the 10 craft is going to lsay, "Lets go talk to the craft"?
11 A
At1 hat time, it depends on who wee were going to go 12 talk to.
Some foreman are much more accomm6datingthan others 13 as far as going and taking care of it.
Some foremen said, "Well,
14 I'm not going to worry about it."
15 4
Lets stop and back up a minute.
As a basic principlei 16 as a basic concept without knowing any of the personalities in-v'olved, wouldn't you go talk to the craft supervisors?
Do you I8 find anything inherent 1v wrong with the suggestion in the first l'
instance that it would be appropriate to discuss the matter with 20 the craft?
A Well, it is wrong in the sense that it )tas not my job, 2
to go discuss with the craft.
It was my job, upon finding a
- 3 non-conforming item, to write a Non-Conforming Ites Report.
Q' Who told you that was your job?
A Well. I believe: well T 1mnw twite, onw.. aia ne nn.
+4w..
.mm........ cur....re orra.+, oar 4...=;v c.. c==wrr.. ao= c^aou=
r--
49m-
+.--key.-
.------p
,,p,,ym.-
--y..
,,m 9m- -
,% ge yt w m---
-=gW
-tW*w-i-
+iew--e
-g-t,--es-W w s t a 7-7 me---v'*e-M--.wem w
m-+w--->
-'rk+-a m.e-m-w--1---
M'cAFEE - Direct 25 r-1 and at other times they told us to ignore previous instructions 2
on that. ~
3 4
When did they tell you that was your job?
4 A
When they were training us to be inspectors.
5 4
How long were you an inspector?
6 A
Nine months.
7 4
How long were you a certified inspector?
8 A
Five months, I think.
9 4
Would you accept four months?
10 A
1 don't know the date my certification papers were.
11 signed.
12 4
Getting back to the systematic deficiency, I belitve A,a, t.
13 you were making reference to wide-ranging major incidents?
14 A
That's correct.
I am making reference to the entire 15 Q.C. Program and Quality Assurance Program, that they were not 16 carried out according te the guide lines in 10 CFR.
They were i
17 not carried out in accordance with Duke Power's own stated in-18 l
structions.
19 4
And you make reference to being told not to write an l
20 NCI on one occasion, and you make reference to being discouraged 21 in writing NCI's, but rather being encouraged to see if you can 22 resolve the matter with the craft;:
Is that correct?
23 A
Yes, and I witnessed, as I said, welding inspectors 24 should ' ot be told to okay the job whether it was right or not.
n 25 4
With respect to beine discouraged to write NCT's and gygLYN GenGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTvet asPONTING SamveCE. CMARLOTTE. NOWTM CANOUNA
McAFEE - Direct 26 I
being encouraged to see if you can resolve a matter with the
(,
2 craft, in how many instances were you discouraged to write NC1' s?
3 A
I can't give you a fdsfinitenumber, but in one instan::e 4
that ' sticks' in 2ny memory.we
were called down to inspect 27 5
cable tray supports, and ottttof the 27, seven were, in fact, 6
according to the definition of an NCI, an NCI.
Seven out'of 7
27 were.
8 4
Did you write NCI's?
9 A
No, we were encouraged to work with the craft.
10 4
Well, let!s"take this example --
11 A
Okay.'~~'
12 4
Where were these cable. tray supports located?
13 A
Reactor Building One, Pipe Chase.
I4 4
Is there an elevation that is important to under -
15 standing the precise location?
16 A
It is basically at the bottom of the reactor building.
It runs all the way around the building.
I8 4
Do you recall any specific locations at the bottom 19 of that building?
A No.
91 4
Where'these"27. cable'~ chase supp'rts were located?
o 22 A
No, it ran perhaps a-third or a-quarter of the way 23 around the building.
I cannot recall the degree markings 24 i
on them.
Q' Seven out of the 27. in your.f udeement, warranted EWELTN 35mOEm ASSOCIATES. STE*10TTPE mePORT50 SEmvtCE. CHAmJTTE. NonTM CAMA
._.,,.,x.
.._.. -.. _.___.-~_,_,_-__,_,,,... _
,m,
___,..,_.--__-.,_..,,.._.,,---,-,m.
.e a
..._""_M _M__.1._.'.
27 I
({
an NCI; Is that correct?
2 4
7,,,
3 Q
What happened?
e 4
A We' talked to the craft foreman and he agreed to correet 5
them.
6 4
Who w w it?
Who was the craft foreman?
7 A
Cecil Cox.
8 Q
Did he correct them?
8 A
Yes,'he did.
10 Q
Did you subsequently inspect them?
II A
Yes.
12 Q
Were you satisfied?
I3 A
Yes.
14 4
Any other examples wiiere'in ~--
15 There were other examples of us co-ordinating our A
inspection work with the craft in resolving so called NCI's 16 l
I l
without writing NCI's ; but --
18 4
Can I maybe cut this a bit short?
19 A
Sure.
90 I can understand your position when you were told 4
91 not to write an NCI, and 'you thought an NCI should be written.
l
\\
A That is what we were told.
93 Q
I cPn understand your concern.
94 1
L Yes.
25 But I'm having difficulty in understanding ycur Q
EVELYN sERGER ASSOCoATES. STENOTTPE REPORTINfp SEnveCE. CHARLOTTE. NomTM CamOUNA
,.-,...m,.y-y p
.,.my
.p..,,
.-,-._,--7
McAFEE - Direct 28
- * + -
1
.M concern when an NCI, in your judgement, should have been 2
written and wasn't written.
But then you worked the matter i
3 out with the craft as such that you, as a professional, were satisfied,' that that should continue to trouble you.
5 A
Well, one thing that troubled me is that it wasn't 6
my job to play poker, if you will, with the craft.
My job 7
was to inspect, and upon finding a non-conforming item, to 8
document it.
9' 4
Let's just explore this a little bit further:
if to Mr. Cox had not corrected the situation --
A Yes.
p.
4
--- You would have had an opportunity to inspect these
- c..
13 seven cable chase supp, orts, would you not?
14
~
A Yes.
15 4
And if you weren't satisfied you had an opportunity 16 then to write an NCI?
17 A
Yes.
18 4
So can you fairly characterize that as playing poker?
19 A
It is just a figure of speech.
oo Q
I understand, but it is connotation.
91 A
Well, I don't understand " connotations.,"
Q What do you mean by the term "plcying poker"?
23 A
Playing politics perhaps would be a more fitting --
24 i
in other words, working with people as opposed to writing them 25 up and m.hing th;m =0d 0.nd TCd-tagging their W0rk.
Y0u hMO EvgLTN S$ mOS A ASSOC 4ATES. STENOTTPE REPORTISeG Sa mveCE. CMARLOTTE. NOfrm CAROWNA n-,,.,-_.-
McAPEE - Direct 29 I
a much better working relationship in some instances.
Some in-2 stences there were people..that you.couldn't work with like that.
3 4
Well, let's continue to explore the systematic de--ic: - :r-4 ficiencies.
Are there any other instances wherein you were 5
discouraged to write NCI's and encouraged to work with the 6
craft to resolve the matter?
7 A
Yes.
8 4
What are they?
9 A
Okay, on cable tray support grades, cable room work 10 was done by Bobby Land, Electrician.
We were called down to inspect on several occasions and the work-was not per-print.
11 12 4
I'm sorry, work was not --
es..
c 13
,A Per-print.
14 4
Per-print?
15 A
He was an indiridual who, after you got to know him we were able to work wit 1. him; and we went and told him he had 16 l
17 these problems and.he corrected them.
18
'Q Were you t,atisfied with the correction?
I f
19 A
.Yes, 20 Q
Are there any other examples?
21 A
Yes, well, there were cable tray hangers and supports 22 in the auxiliary building.
Again, we worked with the craft 23 to resolve them.
24 4
Where abouts in the auxili.ary building were these 25 cable trays?
EWELYN SENGER ASSWCIATES. STENOTYPE REPONTING SEmysCS. CNAmLOTTE. NCWTN CAROUNA c.--
McAFEE - Direct 90 r-1 A
I don't. recall the elevat'ons.
There were a number i
(4 2
of floors.
3 4
Do you recollect the crew who was responsible for 4
hanging these cable trays.
5 A
I'm not sure.
6 4
Continue.
7 A
Okay, they were also, other than the 27 I cited in 8
the Pipe Chase, there were other instances.
9 4
Let me explore the cable tray hangers and supports 10 in the auxiliary building.
What were the facts, the import 11 of that incident?
12 A
They were basically the same as in the Pipe Chase,
~
13 rather than being redundant.
14 4
To the best of your recollection you found some pipe 15 supports that were not satisfactory?
16 A
Cable tray supports.
-17 4
And you brought this to the attention of the craft?
18 A
Of my supervisor, and then of the craft supervisor.
19 4
And the craft supervisor corrected them and you were 20 satisfied with that correction?
21 A
Yes, he had them done per-print, which was my cencern:
22 that they were built according to prints.
23 Q
And you re-inspected them and were satisfied?
24 g>
I re-inspected and tagged them.
U Q
And were satisfied?
tvatem osmosa associares. siaNOTYPE mtPOmTJeo samvict. CMamLOTTE. MomTM CamouNa
~
McAFEE - Direct 31 I
.l A
Yes.
~
Q Any other' concerns?
2 3
A No, that was basically all the areas I was responsible t 4
for as c.n inspector.
5 o
Ism flat curious, you were a QC Electrical Inspector?
6 A
Yes.
7 Q
And your duties would include inspecting cable tray 8
hangers and supports?
.9 A
That I did.
10 0
And it was flat curiousity.
11 A
Really, okay.
12 Q
That was just what it was.
Now, any other examples
(,..
13 that you can think of?
14 A
No.
15 Q
Concern focuses on the definition of systematic
(
- 6 deficiency.
I try to understand that what you are really 17 making reference to is the entire Quality Assurance / Quality l
18 Control Program at Catawba?
19 j
A I consider that a system.
1 20 Q
Jrst so I have the same term, you call it the whole 21 Quality Assurance System?
A System or you can use the synonym Progr'an.
22 23 0
And the basis for your concern with this system which
(
24 causes,you to conclude there is a systematic deficiency is, one, we are told not to write NCI's; and Two, you were discouraged 25 sveLves errose associares. sTwoType paront w of wwcs. cMamLorra. suosmo camour4a
-s,-
.,-,-ne-
,-v w
e
,----.--,,-w--_
-r
--..-, ~ - - -
a
---~
u q m.
_m__s 32 i
g in writing NCI's and we have discussed the particulars and you y.
2 have nothing further to add to the particulars; is that correct?
3 A
No.
4 4
Is there any other basis that would support your clai n 5
of a wide-ranging' major problem with the Quality Assurance Syst em 6
or Program at Catawba?
7 A
Not that I can recall.
8 4
Mr. McAfee, I would like to direct your attention now to Interrogatories that were prepared by the Applicant.
I will' 9
10 make reference first to Applicants first set of Interrogatories Il to Palmetto' Alliance.concernihg, amcitg other Contentions, Pal-12 metto's Contention 6, r.d that Document bears the date of April g.,
s 13 nine, 1982.
14 I hand you a copy of those Interrogatories (indicatin g).
15 Are you familiar with those Interrogatories?
Were you sware 16 of those Interregatories?
37 A
Yes.
18
~
4 Did you assist in the preparation of responses to 19 any of those Interrogatories?
20 A
Let me clarify, is this the first set of Interroga-21 toriet?
22 4
That is the first set ; that 's correct.
23 A
Yes, I did.
s 24 ig Can you recollect which Interrogatories you responded to?
gyggvw SgmOgm AssOCIAfgs. STENOTTPE mePORTtNG senvaCE. CHARLOTTg. NORTM CAmotsmA w
s-
-,, ~ - -
..e
,--na,,-,-
w-----,
e--,-e--
W waawww _ m ed 33 1
A.
Out of 128 7 g;
~
2 Q
Perhaps you can help 'us,-in the first instance, by 3
iiidicating the topic area.
4 A.
' Pardon me?
i 5
4 The topic area.
6 MR, GUILD:
Is Mr. McAfee's Affidavit attached 7
to those Interrogatories?
8-MR. McGARRY:
I don't believe it is attached.
9 10 BY MR. McGARRY:
4 Do you recall preparing an Affidavit for those Inter-12 p.
rogatories?
t 13 MS. COTTINGHAM:
That is an incomplete setreftr I4 sheets having to do with specific questions.
15 MR. CARR:
That is my copy of the entire --
16 MR. McGARRY:
We are looking for the response.
II MR. CARR:
The answer.to that questibn is no; I8 There are only two affidavits attached.
18 MR. GUILD:
I think my recollection, Counsel, 20 is that Mr. McAfee and Mr. Hoopengardner were witnesses, ol
'but that it was Mr. Lowe who was identified as the
~
assistant-in preparation of the answer.
MR. McGARRY:
Yes, I think that is what the 93 b
94
~
Record reflects.
25
..om..
.....oci.m...
orm m.s...
.c..c= = m.
.v c..ou
49 s& &
d%,
////gj g[,%t k
IMAGE EVALUATION k///7[* @/
4 #,
TEST TARGET (Mi-3) 4 N
f/,
'% p, NM li9211 1.0
!!E lilM
. -l l
u
---~ E I.25 1.4 1.6 4
150mm 4
6" hl*%
f 'b
#$'>'hp 9Mb;4f y
4> pf
(((%. [f/
T fr \\%/
IMAGE EVALUATION Qf k//77
" ],f *[h TEST TARGET (MT-3)
(
f 4
s'*tb#
l.0 F En M 5l5f DE He ii ta
'.25 1.4 1
1.6 I
1_
==
150mm e
6"
- 4
/4%
Ndy k#
<>>h h' i 7/
<h(%
W 0
t
_3
- m.,, j c 33 I
BY MR. McGARRY:
{a. }c.
~
2 4
Do you reco'11ect?
3 A
My recollection is that I did correspond with Counsel 4
on certain of these Interrogatories.
I did not see his responsa, 5
so I have no idea-k'nowing which Interrogatories he actually use 1 6
that I helped with, 7
4 As of May 19, 1983, have you seen Palmetto A111ances' 8
Besponses to Applicants' Interrogatories of April 8, 1982 con-9 cerning Contention 77 10
~.,
.MREGUILD:
Is that the same one?
~
11 MR~. JOHNSON:
I think that is the date of.the 12 answers.
g w
13 MR. GUILD:
That is the answers.
14 THE WITNESS:
Yes, that is what he was asking 15 about, had I seen those.
16 II BY MR. McGARRY:
18 l
4 Have you seen,'as of today, May 19, 1983, the responses t
19 l
of Palmetto Alliance, those responses bearinb the date of April l
20 28, 1982, to Palmetto Alliances' contention 67 21 A
That is the Answers to Interrogatories?
22 4
Answers to Interrogatories.
23 A.
No.
f'
\\
24 4'
I as'k you to the best of your ability can you recall 25 what is the nature of the correspondence you had with Counsel EVELYN WER3E R ASSOCIATES. STENQTYPE REPOr c ;G.*'#RvtCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CARouMA
__,.-.n
,,m_
,.-- -,,,,,,_.,._ v
_,-,-wm.,.,,
m,-,,._---
--,.,,-,---_,r.
-__,n
McAFEE - Direct 35
{;;
concerning Applicants' Interrogatories of April 19, 1982?
I
~
2 A
What was the nature?
3 4
Yes, do you recall the subject matter?
4 A
Well, I was responding to those Interrogatories to the 5
best of my ability.
Many of them I had no idea, ch things like who is the Quality Control Inspector sited in Contention 6, 6
7 which was obviously me; What was his address, which is obviously 8
mine.
9 I was very knowledgeabletontthose. things.
10 4
Did you prepare a response to every one of the Inter-11 rogatories? - -
12 A
As I said, most of them I was not, you know, in a C
l 13 position to do, as far as responding.
j 14 4
Do you recollect how.much time you spent in preparing; 15 your response?
j 16 A
Maybe a couple hours.
4 Te. McAfee, I direct your attention to certain of
'37 the responses, and I am going to be guided in this instance 38 by Palmetto A111ances' Responses in the front of their April 19 28, 1982, Document which indicated that you, Mr. Ron McAfee, had knowledge with respect to Interrogatories 17 through 80; 21 22 and I will read 77 -to you, if that is satisfactory, and you 23 can see the answer, and we will be referring to you, as I belieVe your answers will be Item B and Mr. Hoopengardner's 24 25 is Item A.
aveu..
.....ociar....r ov m
.oci.... vies.ca. u rr..
. c..ou.
j
o t
McAPEE - Dire'ct '
36
{.,
Seventy-seven reads as follows:
"Please provide witil 1
~
2 names and' addresses of each construction worker or other employ se 3
on this Contention'.'"
Is the answer satisfactory to the best 4
of your knowledge?
~
5 g
- yes, 6
4 Yes; 78' reads as follows:
" Provide the terms of em-ployment for each construction worker or other employee on whom 7
you intend to rely in support of your position on thic Conten-8 9
tion."
Is the answer satisfactory to the best of yCur know-10 ledge?
11 A
What number?
12 4
Seventy-eight B7 gi,;
u 13 A
Yes.
4 Seventy-nine," Provide the position or positions held 14 by each construction worker or other employee on whom you in-15 tend to rely in support of your position on this Contention."
16 II Is the answer to 79-B satisfactory to the best of your know-la ledge?
19 A
'Yes, sir.
4 Eighty, " Provide a specific alAegation by each 20 Construction worker or othei employee on 4hom you intend to 21 rely in support of your position of this Contention."
Would 4
you please take your time and read 80-B7
- 3
~
7
~
I.
94 A.
May I just see that response so I can refresh my 25 recollection?
EVELYN SENGE R ASSOCIATE S. STENOTTPE REPORTING SE RVtCE. CHAmLOTTE. NORTM CAmouNA
McAPEE -- Direct 37 1
4 I have a copy (indicating).
Now is this response g
%4
~
2 correct to the best of your knowledge?
3 A
Yes, sir.
~4 4
As I see it there are six allegations and I'believe 5
you have made reference to each one of those allegations already; 6
is that correct?
7 A
No, that is not correct.
8 Q
All right, will you correct my understanding?
9 A
Okay,_one thing I did fail to mention was the fact to that blueprints were changed to reflect construction errors.
11 And if you tould like me to elaborate on that I will.
12 4
Yes, would you?
' w(
13 A
On certain occasions we would go to inspect the cable 14 tray supports, cable tray hangers and all the cable tray support; s,
l 15 or I should say most of them, were seismically br' ace ~d.
We found 16 several instances in which seismic bracing was not run in the 17 direction the print called for it to be run.
18 We would, usually on this our procedure was to talk 19 to the Technical Support engineers, and generally the resolution 20 to this was that Design Engineering would revise the blueprint 21 to reflect the change in direction of the seismic bracing.
22 And I will add.that it was my understanding that 23 seismic bracing ran pretty much a continuous system.
In other-words,' you didn't brace all of them in one direction.
You would 24 25 alternate the direction ofr. bracing and so forth.
SWELYN SERGER ASSOCsATES. STENOTYPE REPORTifeG SGfrvlCE. CHARLOTTE NonTM CAIBOLJNA
a.
McfFEE - Direct 38 1
4 Let's just explore that one for a moment:
As I.
g 2
understand it, you would go out in the field to conduct your 3
inspections, and you look at the blueprints to determine if 4
the work was performed pursuant to the blueprint; Is that 5
correct?
6 4
- yes, 7
4 And in some instances you. determine that the work was 8
inconsistent with the blueprints?
9 A
Yes.
10 4
And then the matter went to the Technical S::,pport 11 engineers. Sho'were they?
12 A
They were in.the construction department, they were r it
%~
13 engineers.
I4 4
What-does that mean; What are they supposed to do 15 when you bring this to their attention?
Are they supposed to 16 determine if this is improper or if it is acceptable?
A My understanding of their job when I was out there II 18 is that they were to determine or help us to determine if it was a significant non-conformance.
That was my understanding I9 20 of their job.
4 Stop there.
Did you receive training as to what their 21 job was?
How did you come to understand that was their job?
22 1
A Basically from -- we didn't receive any formal train-23 ing that was their job -- but that was the way we were told to 24 25 use, if you will, these people.
EVELYN SEmGER ASSOCMTES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SEnvlCE. CHARLOTTE NORTM CAROUMA
--,s v
r-,- - -, -,,,,,-, -, -,,-,,,-,,-,, -
,---,-,,,,,----w x
,w w, ~,,
a McAFEE - Direct 39 I
4 Did it bother you that you had to bring this matter
(~f'
~
'~
2 to the Technical Support engineers?
Did you have problems with 3
tiiat concept?
4 A
At that time I didn't at all because it wasn't just
.5 with these seismic bracings that we went to Technical Support 6
with.
This was on the matter of, well, other minor things.
7 4
I understand that they 1cok at many things.
I'm just 8
trying to look at, right now, do you have any problems with the
~
8 fact that they'look at a wide-range of construction analysis?
10 A
No.
II 4
And now we are talking about a specific instance of 12 this seismically braced -- What was seismically braced?
mW 13 A
Cable tray hangers, Cable tray supports.
14 4
Where were they located?
15 A
Well, the vast majority of the ones I was recponsible 16 for inspecting were'in the Reactor Building One Pipe Chase II again, and the auxiliary building.
I8 4
And what crews were involved?
~
I8 A
Cecil Cox.
20 4
And as I understand it, the matter was taken to 91 Techn'. cal Support, and what'did Technical Support do with the 99
~~
matter?
93 A
They would contact Design Engineering.
4 Do you know if they contacted Design Engineering in 95
~
this instance?
EVELYN S$2GER ASSOCIATES. STSNOTYPE REPOurTING SERVICE. CMAALOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
., - - ~..
McAFEE - Direct 40 gg 1
A' Well, there were several instances.
qi 2
'4 Do you know if-they contacted Design Engineering 3
in each of_these instances?
4 A
I didn't hear the phone calls.
We were told that 5
they did.
6 4
What is the function of Design Engineering in this 7
process to the best of your knowledge?
8 A
It is my understanding that Design Engineers design 9
the plant, and if the blueprint or design needs to be chan.Ted, 10 then it is their responsibility.
11 Q
They we>re contacted to see if they wanted to change 12 the prints or non-conform the item; and help me out with this:
t h11 13 If they can change the prints do they have to make some deter-i 14 mination that it is proper.to change the prints to the best of 15 your knowledge?
16 A
They have to make a determination based on whatever 17 criteria they use.
18 4
You don't know what that criteria is?
19 A
No, I am not an engineer.
2 4
And these instances involving seismically braced 21 cable tray supports and hangers, did Design Engineering make M
the judgement that the blueprints should be changed?
23 A
In most instances, yes, that I brought to their atten-24 tion.
~
25,
4 And were you satisfied with the resolution of the matter' l
EVELYN SENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SEmytCE. CHARLOTTE. NOsrTM CAROUNA L.
McAFEE - Direct 41 I
({t A
Well, I wasn't fully satisfied.
In other words,. I
~~~
2 was not comfortable with the fact that a print was being change i 3
because a craft worker made c. mistake an'd braced something the 4
wrong way.
5 I had' t'o be satisfied because they reviewed the print 6
and that was the new print I had to inspect by.
Do you under-7 stand?
4 I understand.
Let me again just explore it for a 9
I moment:
Am I correct in understanding you were not totally 10 satisfied because this was reflective of inefficier.cy or not 11 doing the job right the first time; but 'once the engineers,'
'~
~
12 6/,.,
those people I assume who have a technical background, made a determination it was' appropriate to change the design, those 14 were then your marching orders; and inasmuch as the seism'itchily 15 braced cable trays and hangers were now running in a direction 16 consistent with a revised blueprint, you no longer had a pro-
.17 blem with the work?
18 A
I was still concerned about the fact that it was 19 hanged to reflect a construction foul-up.
I had no choice but 20 te inspect by the blueprint.
21 4
Were you cencerned that the seismically. braced cable, 22 trays or cable hangers would not perform the function they were 23 supposed to perform?
24 A
I considered that a possibility.
25 g
ube' ueriq be the b ir for ycur judccr.cnt?
EvgLYN SERGE R ASSOCRATES. STENOTTPE RSPOsmpeG SS Rv6CE. CMARLOTTE. NOsrTM CAROUNA
n.
McAFEE - Direct 43 1
A Well, based on my conversations with engineers con-G'4:.
~
cerning.the whole s'ystem of seismic bracing -
2 3
4 What engineers did you have conversations with?
4 A
There was some of the Technical Support engineers 5
at Catawba.
I didri't talk to them very often and I don't recall 6
any of their names, to be quite honest with you.
7 4
And did they state that the specific revised blueprinbs 8
that we are talking about now were improperly revised?
9 A
The engineers that I talked to?
10 4
Yes.
11 A
No.--
12 4
And if I understand the role of the Technical Support engineers and Design ungineers, contrary to your opinion they 13 14 were of the opinion that the seismically braced cable trays and hangers as constructed could perform the function they weild' 15 16 be called upon to perform; Is that correct?
A The Design engineers re-designed it.
None of the I8 Technical Support engine'ers ever actually told me this was wrong, I8 but one of them explained the seismic bracing system or theory to me; and based on that conversation I don't see how he could 20 I
think it was right to change it.
22 4
Isn't the final judgement of this issue determined 23 by the work done by the Design engineers?
24 A.
Final judgement is, yes.
Q All right, we were going through Item B, 80-B; EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE DEPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROuMA
,.g,,
-w
._r.-,
v--
me--
n--
McAFEE - Direct 44 s.
I And I asked you was my observation correct that the six items
{.;
~
2 referenced therein have already been discussed; And you said 3
"No; incorrect."
The revised blueprint -with that change,,is 4
there any other addition or camendment you would make to my
~
5 statement?
6 A
No.
7 4
Okay.
Ncw, I hand you a co'py of Palmetto A111ances '
8 Supplementary. Responsas dated April 19, 1983, to the same
~
8 April 19, 1982 Interrogatories (indicating).
Did you assist 10
.in the preparation.of that Response?
11 A
No.r-4 I would ask you to direct your attention to Inter-12 g,
w.
rogatory Five.
It is on P. ige four (indicating).
Will you I3 I4 take a moment to read that, please?
15 As I understand this Response, Mr. McAfee, it appear!
that that aspect of the Response that is germane to you is 16 l
~II
'found at the bottom of Page four.
Would you agree with that?
l A
Would I agree with your observation?
38 I
l 19 q
7,,,
20 A
Yes, sir.
4 And as I understand the Response, in essence the 21 L
Response refers back to the April 28, 1982 Response whichf t
oo we -have already discussed and in essence, supplements that 23
- (-
Response as I understand the supp1'ement in reference to you, 24 s
Mr. Ron McAfee. would be the Exit Interview;- Is that correct?
. m m........e w as. m o m.. w o. s....vic.c. so m.
.e c.
u
McAFEE - Direct 45 1
A' Yes, sir.
((t 2
Q Thank yotI very much.
I hand you a copy of a memor-3 andum dated July lE, 1979, which I believe is the Exit Intervie w 4
(indicating).
Would you read tha'?
~ ~
t 5
A.
I am familiar'with it.
6 4
Does that Exit Interview further reflect your obser-7 vations of sub-standard workmanship at Catawba?
8 A
No, it doesn't because this is not a true representa-
~
9 tion of o'r Exit Interview that I had with Larry Davidson.
I
~
u 10 might note this is dated July 12, 1979; and it was conducted
~
11 garch 16, 1979. -
12 4
March' sixteen '79 was your Exit Interview?
%l 13 A
Yes, sir.
14 Q
To the best of your recollection what matters did you 15 discuss at your Exit Interview?
16 q
A Well, I discussed my concern of Nuclear Power and U
Radiation Releases, and this meno states when I was asked if 18 I had any concerns about'what would be done at Catawba, I did 19 say I had concerns.
20 I was concerned that there was waste of alot of money 2I in work that was done wrong 'which had to be corrected.
I was 22 concerned that the Q.C. program was not fulfilling the letter l
23 of it 's purpose.
In short, this memo does not reflect my true 24 pictur'e of the Exit Interview.
Parts of it are correct, but 05 l
parts of it are not true at all.
~
svgLYN sanoen AssOCsATEs. sTaNOTYPE REPCNTING staveCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAmouMA m
9 --
--,,,w-n
--.---r-
,,e
46 McAFEE - Direct
(-
4 Have you seen a copy of this Exit Interview before?
1
~
2 A
Before right'now?
3 g
- yes, 4
A
'I had.
5 4
When did you see a copy of that?
6 A
Just a few days ago.'
7 4
Had you, before that time had you seen a copy of that?
8 A
No,'I had not.
8 4
Now, with respect to your Exit Interview concerns; 10 aside from c'oncerns generally with nuclear power concerns, with 11 waste of money, you mentioned concerns with Q.C. Program not 12
,q fulfilling its purpose.
Is that the concern that we have been m
13 discussing in this Deposition?
14 A
Yes.
15 4
Is there any other aspect of that concern?
16 A
No, I think that bascially sums it up, if I'm
(
II understanding you correctly.
18' 4
I think I understand you correctly.
I want to be l
l 18 sure of myself and the Applicants want to be sure, themselves, I
20 there are not some other instances of your concern that the 21 Q.A. Program was not fulfilling its purpose.
If there are 22 other matters of concern, let's get them on the table.
23 A
I don't think so.
24 d
Are you aware that on May 4, 1982, the Applicants served another set of Interrogatories upon Palmetto Alliance?
svettu esnoen associates. sisworvre nerontJ.o samvecs. cuan6erra. wosrrw camouwa
47 weavvr _ nivent 1
MR. GUILD; May 4, 1983 (g
2 THE M TNESS:
Yes, I'm aware of it, not of the 3
substance of it.
5 T:sf MR. McGARRY:
6 4
Have you seen those Interrogatories?
No; I mean were you served it, but that is it?
7 A
8 4
Have you been asked to assist in the Response to 9
those Interrogatories?
10 A
No.
11 4
Mr.--McAfee, New directing your attention to Interroga tories that Palmetto Alliance has filed, are you aware that 12 7N, 13 on April 21, 1982, Palmetto Alliance served Interrogatories
'14 upon the Applicant concerning Contention 67 l
Yes; not aware of the time, the date slipped my mind, 15 A
16 Q
Here is a copy of that (indicating).
17 A
Okay.
18 4
Did you assist in the preparation of Interrogatories concerning Palmetto A111ances' Contention 67 l
19 20 A
Not directly; in other words, I didn't say Here 21 is e.n Interrogatory to ask --
22 4
What did you do?
23 A
Well, I had correspondence with Counsel.
r What was the nature of that correspondence?
24 4
25 A
Basically we covered it all "aiready; if you under-EVELYN SENGE e ASSOCIATE S. STE NOTYPE REPORTING SERvfCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CANOWNA
4 Mc'AFEE - Diradt 48
- g..
I stand what I mean.
In other words,' it was concerning these oth<tr O
2 problems or concerns.
3 4
These other problems and concerns are limited to thos< r 4
problems and concerns we have discussed today?
5 A
To the best of my recollection.
6 4
How much time did you spend in preparing your commenta 7
as to what type of Interrogatories ought to be asked?
8 A
I don't remember.
9 4
Did you see Applicants' Response to those Interrogatories 10 A
Some of them I have, yes.
11 4
I hand you a copy of Applicants Response of December 12 31, 1982, to contention,6 (indicating).
Have you seen that y
13 Response?
14 A.
Yes.
15 4
When did you see that Response?
16 A
I can't give you a date.
17 4
Approximately?
i 18 A
I would say probably a couple months ago.
19 4
Where did you see those Responses?
20 A
At my house.
i
'l 4
Did you read the entire Response, and let the Record 22 reflect it runs from p ages 14 to -- what is the last Page, Mr.
23 McAfee?
?
24 A'
On the bottom of the stack?
25 g
7,,,
eveu= s noen associares. sta=orves aero=r*. sanvice. ca tons. ~ oar
- camou a
McAFEE - Direet' 49 I
(A A
Forty-four.
Yes, I believe I did read this whole
~
2 Response; Yes.
3 4
Did you keep ~a copy of that Response?
4 A.
I don't know.
5 4
To the best of your knowledge do you have a copy 6
of that at home'or at your office?
7 A
The best I can tell you, I don't know.
9 4
Do you recollect reading that Response more than once ?
9 A
No, I read it once.
10 MR. GUILD:
Counsel should give the witness an 11
~
aiard for plowing through this lengthy" objection, 12
- C. ;
and more than one., He deserves to be committed.
13 14 BY MR. McGARRY:
15 4
Are you aware that on February 28, 1983, Applicants 16 supplemented the Response that we have just been discussing?
17 A
No.
18 4
Are you aware that on March 16, 1983, Palmetto Allian :e 19 l
filed additional Interrogatories styled as Follow-up Interrega-20 tories upon the Applicant?
21 A
Yes.
22 4
I hand you a copy of that Document (indicating). Did 23 you assist in the preparation of those Interrogatories?
g 24 A
Not directly.
25 Jas year effGst with J;sp6Ct tG thC3C IntCTICgat0riC0
^
EvtLYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE mf POftTING SteveCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
~
"'?RE
- ..;;L T
I consistent with your effort in the initial set of Interrogatories?
2 4
- yes, 3
4 Were there ahy additional areas of concern that you 4
mentioned to Counsel?
5 A,
no, 6
4 Are you aware of Applicants Reponses to those follow-7 up Interrogatories?
8 A.
No.
9 4
Are you aware that in Discovery Palmetto Alliance 10 sought Documents from the Applicant?
11 4
ye s,._. _
g,..
4 Are you aware that Documents were made available to 12
- 7.,
13 Palmetto Alliance by the Applicant?
14 4
- yea, 15 4
Have you been asked to examine Documents relevant 16 to Contention 67 17 A.
Yes-.
18 4
When were you asked?
19 A
Shortly after Applicants made them available.
4 If I said February 15, 1983, would that date be 20 21 consistent with your recollection?
A I wouldn't -- I don't know --as I said, it was short3y 22 23 after you made Documents available.
24 q.
Who asked you to review the Documents?
25 A.
Counsel.
EvgLYN Sangen ASSOCIAfgS. STENOTTPg papostiaeo SanveCg. CMA#LOTTg. NomTM CamouMA
R McAFEE - Dircet 51 1
4 What Documents were you asked to review?
2 A
Documenti available in the Document Room.
3 4
And you are referring to the Document here at Duke 4
Power Company in the Legal Department?
5 A
Yes.
6 4
Did you review such Documents?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
When did you review such Documents?
'9 A
I can't recall the date.
I signed in when I came
~
10 so you should have it on record.
11 4
How many times did you.come and examine the Documente 12 in the Document Room?
r.
13 A
Let 's see, I believe I personally only came up here 14 once to examine Documents.
15 4
How long did you spend in your examination of Docu-16 ments in the Duke Power Document Room?
l 17 A
I would say approximately three hours.
l 18 Q
Are you aware'that Palmetto Alliance asked for copies 19 l
of certain materials that they examined in the Duke Power Com-l 20 pany's Document Room?
l 21 A
Yes.
1 22 j
4 Have you been asked to review these Documents rele-U vant to Contention 67 24 l
g y,3, l
25 4
When were you asked to review those Documents?
EVELYN SENGER ASSOC 8ATES. STENOTTpt REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROLINA
McAFEE - Direct 52 1
A Basically when we first got access to them.
2 4
You mean when Palmetto Alliance received the copies
~
3 they had requested?
4 A
Yes, well, we have not received most of the copies 5
we requested yet; but Counsel asked if I would help review the 6
Documents in' case I might have some knowledge concerning the 7
Contention 6.
8 As,I said, I!ve only been up here once, but others 9
have been doing research in the Document Room and I was asked 10 to review the Documents.
11 In fact, even prior to looking at most of them --
12 MR. GUILD:
I can help:
There is an outstanding 13 '
request for copies of some inspection reports as I 14 understand, Counsel Carr is making available; An.d I
15 I think that is what the witness has reference to, 16 specifically.
17 MR. McGARRY:
That would be a limited number 18 of Documents.
19 MR. CARR:
Six, Seven Pages.
20 21 BY MR. McGARRY:-
22 Q
What were you looking for when you came to the Duke 23 Power Company Document Roem?
24 A.
Well, I was looking for evidence.
25 4
What type of evidence?
==
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATSS. 9TENOTYPE REPORTihe SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROuMA
_.__,__,..._._._.,_____,__,___m.
e
.a McAFEE - Direct 53 1
A Evidence which would substantiate our Contention.
2 MR.' GUILD:
At some point I think, if I could 3
understand, I guess the drift of Counsel's questions, 4
Mr. McAfee and I have an Attorney-Client relationship
~
5 in which he has provided me assistance in formulating 6
Legal positions which Palmetto Alliance has taken ind 7
has assisted preparing work papers for litigation of 8
~ Contention 6; 9
And if Counsel would be sensitive to the fact 10 that we, as they, assert Attorney-Work Product privilege 11 and Attorney-Client pri'rilege, it would be helpful to 12 4.
me to understand the direction of the questioning.
13 He has no problem telling you what he is looking 14 at or for.
15 16 BY MR. McGARRY:
17 4
I appreciate that concern.
The sensitive question 18 is in examining Documents were you looking for Documents to 19 support your particular allegations, and that is the allegations 20 of Ron McAfee; Or were you looking for Documents to support 21 a broader allegation or a combination?
22 A
Both; Combination, both.
23 4
Did you find such Documents?
24 A'
Yes, we found such Documents; yes.
25 Q
Can you tell me what those Documents were?
gwgLvN gamGan ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING staveCE. CMARLOTTE. Nom rM CARObsNA
,w
.e
McAFEE - Direct 54 1
MR. GUILD:
I would object at this point.
If k<..
2 there is & narrow class of Documents that we have 3
reference to in response to a number of interrogatory 4
questions that Counsel has directed the witness's 5
attention to and those were Documents in the nature 6
of ones that would assist in refreshing his recollecti on 7
about specific factual matters within his range of 8
responsibility and experience as a Duke Power Employee 9
on-the-job, and then there are Documents that generally 10 are being reviewed and processed as part of the work-11 product to prepare for Litigation'of Contention 6.
12 As to the second class of Documente, we would 13 assert a work-product and attorney-client privilege.
14 As to the first class of Documents, those that 15 were identified as potential cources to refresh the 16 witness's recollection, I have no objection to you n
inquiring.
18 MR. McGARRY:
I have not limited my inquiry to a 19 particular class.
I have asked the witness-what 20 documents did he discover that he felt were particularly 21 helpful to supporting ~ the centention.
Do you have an 22 obj ection?
Are you directing the witness not to answer 23 that question?
MR. GUILD:
If you could help by rephrasing the 24
~
25 question or phrasing the question to avoid the area gvELYN SERGER ASSOCIAf tt. STENOTYRE REPORTING SERytCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAmouMA
., ~. -.
4=
McAFEE - Direct 55 I
6 to which I believe an objection is appropriate, yes; s.-
2 but if thd' question is not narrowed since I believe 3
the response would call for an answer that would 4
violate that work-product privilege, then I will.
5 MR. McGARRY:
I will walk through it again and 6
you.can make that determination.
7 8
BY MR. McGARRY:
9 4
You came to the Duke Potter Company Document Room; 10
- orrect?
11 A
Correct.
12 t;..,
4 You examined Documents, correct?
f 13 A
Correct.
14 4
You were looking for Documents that supported your 15 particular Contention, that is, the Contentions of Ron McAfee; 16
- orrect?
II l
A Right.
18 4
And you were looking for Documents that supported the 19 broader Contention of Palmetto Alliance?
l 20 g
7,,,
I 2I l
4 In examination of those Documents did you uncover 1
22 Documents that you felt were helpful to those both A and B, l
t; hat is your particular concern and to the concerns of Palmetto 23 24 Alliance?
A Yes.
tyggvm samGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE mf PORTING SEnv8CE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
{
a O
McAFEE - Direct 85 6 c.
1 4
And I ask you'can you identify those Documents?
G-2 A
[Well, specifically letters and complaints raised by 3
welding inspectors attaCatawba.
4 MR. GUILD:
Counsel, If I can I would like to' 5
confer with Mr. McAfee for a moment.
6 (Whereupon, there was 'an off the Record discussion 7
between the vitness and Mr. Guild.)
9 3Y MR. McGARRY:
10 4
Mr. McAfee, I think when we left off I had asked you 11 what Decument.s have a bearing on your position, Mr. McAfee. -
12 Are you familiar with where we are at this point in time?
(31:
- ^
13 A
Yes.
14 4
Can you answer the question what Documents were impor- -
15
- ant to you with respect to your concerns, the concerns of Ron 16
'cAfee?
17 A
Well, the Documents which I found so far, basically e
18 collaborate my concerns about the Q.C. System or Program although 19 bhey den't directly deal with me in my personal concerns as an 20 employee.
21 4
I understand, but one of your concerns is the Q.C.
22 Program not fulfilling its purpose?
23 A
Correct.
24 4>
And you found Documents which in your opinion support 25 t; hat position?
EVELYN Sangte ASSOCaAft S. STENOTTPS mtPORTING SEnvlCE. CNAmLOTTE. NomTN CAROUNA s
o McAFEE - Direct 57 1
A.
Yes.
'[.,
2 4
Can you'tell me what those Documents are?
3 MR. GUILD:
Counsel, this is the point where 4
.we are running afoul of the position that I mentioned 5
earlier; and that is Mr. McAfee has assisted Counsel in preparing our Lit gation positions with respect to i
6 7
this Contention and to the extent, again, that you 8
want to dirset his attention specifically to Document;5 9
that refresh his recollection regarding his personal 10 experiences at Catawba, I have no problem.
11
_ But to the extent you are specifically asking him 12 to disclose strategy evaluations and work-product for
!.?: >
13 the Litigation of this Contention, I would Object.
14 MR. Mc0ARRY:
This Board has directed us, rather 15 than asking Inte rogatories,to conduct the Deposition 16 of Mr. McAfee; and we have established today that one 17 of Mr. McAfec's concerns is the Q.A. Program.
f 18 We then think it is a legitimate area of inquiry l
19 to ask what is the basis of your concern regarding 20 the Q.A. Program.
We spent some time regarding your 21 specific concerns, concerns based on your knowledge.
22 It would be legitimate to ask is there any other in-23 formation that supports your concern with respect to the Q.A. Program, and you indicated, yes, there are 24 i
1 25 Documents you found in the Document Room.
So it is EvtLTN SE NGER ASSOCIATSS. STENOTTPS mEPORTING SEmytCE. CMAmLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
58 MSAFEE - Direct;
~
u, 1
a legitimate area of inquiry - Do you feel any of 2
t ' '. J 3
'these Documents. support your concern with respect 3
to Quality Control 4
MR. GUILD:
That is legitimate, and firit the welding i' spector concerns collaborate his concerns, 5
n 6
knd those.are contained and reflected in Documents.
~
7 Beyond that, if you are asking him to re-evaluate
~
8 those specific Doc'uments on Contention 6, we would,
-9 assert the Objection.
10 MR. McGARRY:
I understand to the best of his 11 knowledge -I am asking what Documents has he seen that 12 h'e thinks support his position, what underlie sih'is 13 allegatiions that Quality Assurance is not being properly 14 conducted at Catawba.
15 In addition to your personal experience, you have 16 seen Documents, and what Documents support that posi-17 tion l
18 MR. GUILD:
Try to answer that question as he 19 just framed it.
20 THE WITNESS:
Okay, the ecmplaints of welding 21 inspectors to supervision in the form of hand written l
I 22 complaints, I feel collaborate my concern, in addition 23 to some notices of violations which I have read.
I am not prepared to site you the serial nu=ber.
24 l
25 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING StevlCE. CNamLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA l
McAFEE - Direct 9Q g,
1 IlY MR. McGARRY:-
\\K; 2
4 No, I wouldn't expect that, but could you tell me the 3
isense of those Notices of Violation?
4 A
.The sense of them is that they deal with the break 5 down, if you will, of the Q.C. System.
6 4
So Q.C. would have been referenced in the Notice of 71'lation?
7 o
8 A ~
Yes.
9 4
Any other Documents?
10 A
No.
~
11 4
Now with respect to Category B which is the grander 12 or larger area of Palmetto Alliance!s concern, again, I ask you
. Q"H.
13
- he same set of questions; is there any Document that you have seen that you think supports the broader allegation?
14 15 MR. GUILD:
Again, I'll assert the position I 16 have
- already stated, the clear dividing line I 17 thought was reflected in the last set of answers; and 18 I think that is the appropriate area of inquiry.
19 He has been responsive, but to the extent you are 20 asking him to reflect his knowledge of our Litigation 1
21 work product and Palmetto's strategic position in thia 22 Litigation of which he may have knowledge, we will 23 assert the Objection.
MR. McGARRY:
I would like to clarify a position 24 i
25 I alluded earlier to the Board's order which was dated
i
.+
McAFEE - Direct
-w~
60
" -+
a Q. '
'May 13, 1983, which directed Palmetto Alliance'to 1
.- ~
make kvailable Mr. McAfee as well as Mr. Hoopengardner, 2
3 and they were to respond in Depositions in lieu of 4'
response,to Interrogatories.
5 We believe that the Licensing Board's direction 6
is clear.
We have asked legitimate Interrogatories, 7
and the Board has told us that our eption or our mean s 8
to receive those answers is through this Deposition.
I 9
Let me just read something that the Board has said
~~
to which has a bearing on the precise issue we are dis-11 cussing.
"Now that Discovery is coming to a clos'e.
12 Palmetto Alliance is under an obligation to review al:.
r,a a.
13 df the information that is provided, that.has been 14 provided to it at its request, and to decide what
~
15 specific pieces of information it intends to rely on, 16 and to tell the other party specifically what it is."
i.
17 This is the time you have had to have made your i
18 choice, by this particular point in time.
19 MR. GUILD:
Counsel, I. disagree, not to cut you l
20 off; but I get your point.
Of course the Board 21 directs further responses by Palmetto Alliance as a 22 party, and those responses are due the 31st of May; j
20 and the Board, as you quote, states t at at that point 24 Palmetto Alliance.ill be obligated to have reviewed
(
i5 materials that are available and to essentially make l
s McA' FEE - Direct 61 those choices that you alil6de' to.
I f:f.,
Mr. McAfee is available to respond to questions, 2
3 and I have Objected to no questions that you have
. asked of Mr. McAfee.that are within his knowledge; 4
but if the drift of this series of questions is not 5
6 his personal experience or knowledge but is to the 7
legal basis of Palmetto Alliance's position on this 8
Contention, you are treading the same ground as if I 9
had one your witnesses here and I asked him what did to you and Mr. McGarry talk about in preparing your defense, 11
, Mr. UcAfee is perfectly happy to respond to ques-12 tions about what he knows about Q. A. problems at Cat-13 awba.
But to the extent that it is the product of 14 his work with Counsel in preparing Litigation.of posi-15 tions with Palmetto Alliance, we believe it is Objec-l 16 tionable.
M MR. McGARRY:
Lat me get to Point B.
I am asking 18 him with respect to Point 3, what Documents does he 19 feel support the broader allegations of Palmetto 20 Alliance, not necessarily what Documents you and he 21 together support, but what Documents, he, Ron McAfee,
~
M thinks supports the broader -- -
23 MR. GUILD:
Let me see if I can ask him to ans,wer the question.
Frankly, I think you have gotten all 24 25 the substantive: information with regard to Point A, EVfLTN S$AGER ASSOCsATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SE RveC4. CHARLOTTE. NOwtM CamouMA i --. -.. -..
McAFEE - Direct.
62 but Mr. McAfee,'will you attempt to answer the ques-
~
a..
I QT tion as Mr. McGarry has posed it?
2 THE WITNESS? The answer to that as far as Docu-3 ments that I'have 1.ooked at this p61nt, Part-B we 4
5 are talking about now?
6 MR. McGARRY:
That's correct, i
7 THE WITNESS:
Would be the same answer that I
~
8 gave to Part A.
9 10' BY MR. McGARRY: -
11 4
Just so.our position is abundantly clear in the_Recor i,
12 we think at this point in time it is not. satisfactory for you to PP 13 simply say I've seen some Notices of. Violation and I can't recall 14 what they are.
[
15 We think as the Board said; that Palmetto Alliance is under an obligation to provide all of the information provided 16 17 to it at its request and to state what information it is relying 18 on and to tell the other. party specifical19 what it is.
Discovery 19 is to end tomorrow, and we should know one day before the close 20 of Discovery the specific items that you, Mr. McAfee, support.
your narrow Sontention, and the broader contention.
21 22 MR. GUILD:
I think the witness has answered the question, and I have stated my position as a party 23 24 with respect to the vehicle for providing response 25 to the Board's direction, and that would be in the EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATSS. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NO8rTM CAROUNA s
.,n-,
,..,,.w-,.,.
,ee,.,,w-.
,,-n,-
McAFEE - Direct 63 newers to Interrogatories that are due the 31st of g.
I
%)
2 May..
MR. Me0ARRY-So are you saying, are you direct-3
.ing the witness not to answer or are you saying he 4
5 has no further answer?
6 MR. GUILD:
I'm saying he has answered the ques-7 tion.
l 8
9 3T MR. McGARRY:
10 4
And you have nothing further to add; is that correct, 11 t. McAfee?
12
' A.
That's correct.
l}W 13 4
So that we can move along on this issue, I wotild ask-14 one more question so we get the position clearly understood, and 15 bhen we will move on.
That is with respect to the Notices of 16 Violation.
17 We have asked you with respect to the Notices of Violation you have made reference to, we have asked you to ident 18 19 ify the particular specific Notice of Violation that you are 20 l eferring to that references a break down in the Q. A. System, 21 and we expect you to answ?r those questions today.
22 My understanding is you can not today provide.us 23 those specific Notices of Violation; is that correct?
i 24 A..
Correct.
~
25 4
Are you familiar with Applicants additional responses R
.m..........h,m.. m.or....
... -... -om. -
r I
~
McAFEE - Direct 64 I
gt concerning Palmetto Alliance's Interrogatories to Applicants v
2 bearing the date of April 12, 19837 3
A As it relates to C.ontention 67
'4 4
Have'you seen that. Document before (indicating)?
5 A
No, I have not.
6 4
Have you seen Applicant's supplemental response to 7
Palmetto Alliance.'.8 Interrogatory bearing the date of April 29, 8
19837 9
A No.
10 4
Conce2ning today's Deposition, when did you learn that 11 yo'u would be Depo, sed?
12 A
About two weeks ago.
13 4
How did you learn?
14 A
Phone call from Counsel.
15 4
In preparation of this Deposition did you talk to 16 anyone?
17 A
Yes.
18 4
Who did you talk to?
19 A
Counsel.
20 4
What did you discuss?
21 MR. GUILD:
C6unsel, I mean what is the purpose 22 of the question?
23 MR. McGARRY:
To ascertain what was the nature 24 of the conversation between you and Mr. McAfee to 25 prepare for this Deposition.
EVELYN SEmOEm ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CAROUAA
_3.,-
.-,n.
- ~_- - - --- - _ _. - - - - -
vrawww _ n1**et 65 g.e, To the extent that you..want to know 1
MR. GUILD:
2 what advice and legal opinion Counsel has been pro-3 viding Mr. McAfee by his lawyer, you obviously ere
~"
4
' intruding on Attorney / Client privilege.
~~
5 6
BY MR. Mc0ARRY; 7
Aside from that, was there any discussion?
Did you 8
discuss what message you should send to Applicant Duke Power
~
8 Company in this Deposition?
10 A.
No.
11 4
After you-left Duke Power Company what job did you 12 then take on?
13 A
I worked for J'.P.
Stevens Stores as a private salas-I4 ban.
15 4
When did you begin that job?
16 A
It was a little over a week after I quit Duke.
4 That would have been Mr.rch of 19797 II
)
I8 A
March 26 I believe to be exact.
18 4
19797 t
20
(
g 7,,,
4 How long were you'with J.P. Stevens?
21 22 A
About six months.
23 4
Why did you leave?
w 24 A
To go into Solar Industry, Solar Energy.
i 25 4
Did you go into Solar Energy.
sveLvm sanoen associarse. siswotype naponnke samvica. cMantoTTs. NonrM canovna l
McAFEE - Direct 66 1
A Yes.
g.;
- l..
2 4
When did you go into it?
3 A
Immediately after leaving J.P. Stevens.
' What was the nature of the job?
4 4
5 L
I sold, wood stoves and solar hot water systems.
6 4
What was the name of the company?
7 A
Sun Belt Solar and Wood Energy.
8 4
Are you still, employed with that company?
9 A
No.
10 Q
When did you terminate your employment with that Com-
~,
11
?any?
_._...s_
12 A
About the end of the year, '79, late December of '79.
13 4
So you were with them just a couple months?
14 A
Yes.
15 4
Why did you terminate your employment?
16 A
Because their management was ill run.
l l
17 Q
Were you fired?
[
18 A
No.
19 4
Were you fired from Stevens?
20 A
No.
l l
l 21 4
Then what did youido?
22 A
Then I was unemployed for several months.
Then I 23 ntarted working with a company, or actually it was two different 24 aompanies, which installed polyeurethaneinsulation.
25 Q
When did you begin that job?
EvgLYN ggRGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPOsrTING SERV'CE, CMARLOTTE. NO8FfM CAROU%
- -. - -. - ~. -
w AM E - Di eet er e
1 A
It was summer of '80.
g:A, 2
Q Are you still employed by that Concern?
3 A
No.
~
4 4
What was the name of that Concern?
5 A
Let's see, Renewable Energy Resources.
6 Q
Is that a local company?
7
,A Yes, in York.
8 4
As'were the other companies, J.P. Stevens and Solar -
9 4
- yeg, 10 4
Why did you leave that company?
11 A
Basically lack of work, they just didn't have alot 12 of work.
g, 13 Q
When did you leave that job?
14 A
The last job I did for them was a little over a year 15 ago.
16 Q
So you worked for them for over a year?
A Off and on, yes, is 4
What have you been doing since that time?
19 A
Well, I did a good bit of substitute teaching in 20 the public schools from three and four year olds all the way 21 through high schools, whenever they needed me.
l
'*2 4
I'm sorry, what?
23 Whenever they needed me; and after that in February A
24 I began working with a general contractor from Clover.
D 4
Doing what?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATE S. STENOTTPS RSPONTING SemysCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
e g
~
McAFEE - Direct 68 i
A Remodeling and building houses.
1 2
4 Are you'doing that now?
2 3
A Yes.
4 4
Let's focus on your Duke Power Company employment.
5 (hen you were. employed by Duke Power' Company were you employed 6
Et Catawba?
7 A
Yes.
s Q
No other plant or system?
9 A
No.
10 4
Why did you apply to work for Duke Power Company?
11 A
I needed a job.
12 4
How soon after filing your application were you hired?
. ( 1-13 A
A week or two, it wasn't a long time.
14 4
Did you go through an Indoctrination Program once 15 fou were hired concerning what was upected of you as an employee 16 3f Duke Power Company?
17 A
I suppose you could call it Indoctrination; it was 18 4'very mild Indoctrination.
You know, I guess the biggest thing l
19
'Was the lecture about what to do if we came up behind a yellow 1
(
20 sign which indicated Radiation Testing.
That was the heaviest 21
- hing, Radiation.
22 4
When you began working for Duke your first j ob was --
23 A.
I poured concrete, citaned concrete and poured concre' ;e N.-
24 Corms. s 25 4
In what area of the plant did you conduct this activi';y?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SEmytCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA 1.
MehPEE - Direct 69 1
A Reactor Building One, Auxili.ary Building, Cooling
(: 4 Q
Building, Turbine Towers; I believe that was it.
2 3
4 What was the' nature of the job?
4 A
Well, we had to clean ' concrete forms before they could 5
pour concrete.
We.had to clean dirt, trash, you name it out of 6
t; hem.
7 4
And that was all of that first job?
s a
A
.Well, we cleaned forms and poured concrete, you know, 9
<e did this, that.
10 4
.What crew were you assigned to?
11 A
Roger Cook's.'
12 4
And did the entire crew perform the same job or jobs 2
13 l; hat you.were performing?
14 A
Yes.
15 4
How were your hours, was it a 40 hour4.62963e-4 days <br />0.0111 hours <br />6.613757e-5 weeks <br />1.522e-5 months <br /> week.
16 A
It was about the usual.
~
17 4
Five days a week?
18 A
Five days a week, eight hoars a> day, occasional over-19 1;ime.
20 4
As I understand it this is a fairly straight forward 21 job; it didn't require any technical knowledge.
22 A
No.
23 4
After that employment how long did that last?
\\-
24 A >
As far as that general job, it was about nine months; 25 and then I moved on to be prepour runner.
... t,,,.......oci re...ri ~orv as== acar*a =< av'c'. **^*'*"* " "" *^"""'
McAPEE - Direct 70 c
1 4
During those first nine months did you';have any con-k.3 i
2
- erns?
3 A
Not really.
4 4
- The concerns we have discussed today came after those 5
first nine months?
6 A
Yes.
7 4
Now, you are in the Duke Power Company nine months an'i
~
8 you now become a prepour runner?
-9 A
Yes, sir.
10 4
What is a prepour runner?
11 -
A Okay, it is a person who goes around and gets the 12 proper signatures on a form, and I'm talking about signatures gj.
13 from craft foremen and appropriate inspectors.
For instance, 14 a welding inspector who has inspected a weld that concrete is 15 going to be poured on top of, I had to get his signature.
If 16 there was a pipe sleeve that a pipe inspector had inspected, I 17 got his signature.
The carpentry foreman who built the form, 18 and so on, and when I got'all the signatures and I got the Engin ser 19 l
signature and Q.A. approval.
20 4
How long were you in that job?
21 A
Let's see, I was in there:about three months.
Q What ' area of the plant?
~
22 23 A
Let's see, it was various areas at all times, really 24 all are'as at diffsrent times.
They had to shift us around.
In 05 ather words,if we had more pourers in Reactor Two, then I had to EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SEmytCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROuMA re,-
r-
McAFEE - Direct 71
,r,.
I run for that.
- a.-
2 4
Were you working with a crew?
3 A
No, werwere basically working independent.
4 4
.Who was your supervisor?
'5 A
Well, technically my supervisor was still Roger Cook.
6 (ctually C.B. Crotts, the General Foreman in charge of concrete, 7
Was my actual Supervisor.
8 4
Did you receive any special training with respect to 9
this job?
10 A
Just on-the-job train $ng from the former prepour runner.
11 4
Had you received any special training with respect to 12
- he previous job?
, 6:I
\\'
13 A
They taught us how to pour concrete correctly.
14 4
In this second job, the prepour runner, did you have 15 Any concerns as a result of that experience?
16 A
Yes, as I alludedte earlier, I was concerned when Q. A.
i t
I nitaived requirements on pourers.
I was concerned about the diffi-18 culty we had in getting welding inspectors to sign the pour sheets.
19 at that time I didn't understand the reason for the difficulty.
m 4
Okay, let me just go through these, if I could.
When l
l 21 Pou were a prepour runner you had a concern that Q. A. waived re-22 ttuirements concerning concrete forms so as to let construction j
23 people make their pours; is that correct?
24 A>
That's correct.
l 4
And you also indicated previously you had a problem l
l
.m
.......oci.n...n=en
..w v*
..-ca. ca*=one ao== ca ou a
M AFEE - Direct 72 g-I about too much water in the concrete in one instance; is'that 2
correet.
' ' 5M' ~
~
3 A
Yes.
4 4
And now you said thirdly, while you were a prepour 5 runner you had a coricern about the difficulty of a welding 6
inspector to sign what?
7 A
Core Sheets, the forms we had te circulate.
8 4-Were there any other concerns that arose while you 9
(ere a prepour runner?
10 A
Not at the time I was a prepour runner.
11 4
Now letiseexamine those three; let's take the water 12 and the concrete. Where was the location of that incident?
GT 13
,A Reactor Building One containment.
14 Q
And what'part of the containment?
15 A.
It was in the well, it was on the wall above what is i
16 called the interior doghouse.
17 4
Okay, did you report this matter to any individual?
18 A.
Now I enay have ~ discussed it with somebody, I didn't 19
!;o to higher supervision and voice a loud complaint.
I said I l
20 may have mentioned it.
21 Q
What did the concrete look like, how do you know that 22 l.t'was too wet?
23 A
'Well, because there was water on top of the concrete.
24 T.n other words, water is in concrete, but it was raining so hard 25
- hat water was actually pooling on top of the concrete.
1 gygLYN sERGan ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPS REPORTING SERveCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA a.
m.
.w.
,y
,_y-,
-y.--
4 4
r-McAFEE - Direct 73 gg..
1 En other words, the water was not mixed with the concrete.
C*
2 4
Do you 'hmow if that concrete was permitted to stay 3
Ln place?
4 A
To my knowledge, it was, they didn't tear'the wall 5
-aut.
6 4
Do you know if anybody raised this concern?
^
7 A
No.
8 4
Do you have any further particulars to share with us 9
- oncerning this matter?
~
.10 A
No.
11 Q
This would have happened ir your first nine months 12 af employment?
.N
~~
13 A
No, this was when I was a prepour.
14 4
That's right, at the end of your first year of employ-l 15 ment; you started when?
1 16 A
I started what when?
17 4
When did you start working at Catawba?
18 A
At Catawba, March 28, '77; I'm sorry.
19 4
So this would have been approximately between January 20 and March of '78?
21 4
- yes, 22 Q
With respect to Q.A. waive requirements on concrete 23 forms to let conntruction make pours, what are you specifically 24 referring to there, what incidents?
B A
Well, I was trying to get a core signed off one day.
SYELYN BERGER ASSOCRATES. STENOTTPS REPORT 1fuG SEWV1CE. CMAPLOTTE. NOMTM CAmouMA
o McAFEE - Direct 74 e;.
1 Construction was very eager to make the pour, but one of the
'.k.
Q. A. Engineers wa's holding the pour up due to some requirements 2
3 which I'm not familiar with.
I wasn't familiar with it at that 4
time, ~ and I guess he.would have been the junior Q. A. Engineer 5
said, "Well, we can' waive the requirements."
6 4
But you don't know what requirements he was referring 7
to?
'8 A
No, that was' my understanding from his conversata.
9 with the other Engineer; and they waived their requirements.
10 4
So I'm clear you have no idea of what those require-11 ments were, either then or now?
12 A
Correct, they had something to do with the concrete f.,,
13 form.
s 14 4
But you don't know as a fact whether it was appropriate 15 for him to waive it or not; is that correct?
16 A
Well, I can't be a judge of that.
It concerned me.
17 Q
Again, what area are we talking about with respect to 18 this?
19 A
I don't recall the area of the plant.
20 Q
Do you recall who the Q.A. individual was?
21 A
No, I don't.
M Q
Do you recall any names associated with this activity 1 l
l 23 A
No, sir; I don't.
i 24 4'
The last item concerns the difficulty in getting weld-3 ing inspectors to sign pour sheets.
Can you explain that to me?
.mv,...k.... ciare...n~orv e =enoarma savics ca*=oTT= acata c^aou~a y--
-y
McAFEE - Diract 75 1
What incident are.you referring to there?
Well, bef' ore the concrete could be poured, if like I 2
3 said, a weld was going to be covered by concrete it had to be 4
inspectedi and the inspector had to okay it.
The difficulty 5
was perhaps twofold'in that it was hard to tell at times which 6
inspector was responsible for which welds; and whereas we might 7
be referring to one inspector, he would say no, that's another 8
fellows responsibility.
9 And it seemed like the old run around where you;had 10 to track down the right inspector, and even though it might, 11 two cores might te 'in the exact same area, two differenttinspec--
12 tors may have responsibili'ty.
w 13 4
Were you able to track them down?
14 A.
Yes, eventually.
15 4
So before'the pour took place you, indeed, did get 16 their signatures; but it was a matter, it was difficult t~o get
'II their signatures?
18 4
Now that concludes the concerns you had resulting fror i
19 your employment as a prepour runner; is that correct?
20 A.
Correct.
21 4
Now we turn to when you became a Q.C. Inspector; is,
22 that correct, after you were a prepour runner what happened then?
23 A.
Well, then I went up in the Utilit'ies Office and was
\\,'.
o4 basical'ly Office Secretary and, you know, took care of the busi-25 ness there in the office which consisted of keenins- ' oring in EVELYM SERGER ASSOctATSS. STSNOTYPS RE PORTdeG SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
v
.p-
_ ~ r d t the'new employees'in the Utility Department, keeping track of p.
I
%i 2
who' was on whose crew, making ou't time sheets, and just, you 3
know, taking care of just general little office trivia that is 4
associated with an office on a construction job.
5 4
Now from your first job, why did you leave that'and 6
become a prepour runner?
7 A
Because it was a promotion of. sorts in my sights.,
8 4
Now w'hy did you leave your job as a prepour runnerf 9
to go to the' Utilities Office?e.: L. :. e e 10 A
Because that'was'another promotion of sorts..
,e 11 Ni.
4~
When you were in your capacity in the Utilities \\ 0ffice, 12 did any of the concerns that you have referenced today manifest f...
pa; s.* 6 13 themselves?'
~
14 A
Not really.
10 4.
How long were you in the Utilities Office in months?
16 A
I guess about 3 months.
~
17 4
And again, so I'm clear what your concerns are, when 18 you were in the Utilities Office did any other concerns we haven 't 19 discussed manifest themselves?
l A
No.
21 4
After the lapsing of those 3 months then what job did 22 you take over?
23 A
Electrical Q.C.
' 24 4
Electrical Q.C.?
25 A
Inspector.
l l
,m,........oci.r....r.~om..uoe~a.. ~c. ca^ a==
~o= c^"*'a^
l l
McAFEE - Direct 77
,e 1
4 Why did you leave the Utilities Office and become
'Qi' 2
an Electrical Q.C. Inspector?
3 A
Because I was trying to become an Inspector from the 4
t'ime I was hired on.
5 4
When you went over to the Electrical Q.C. side of the 6
house, did you start working immediately or did you undergo 7' tiraining?
8 A
Weii, I had on-the-j ob training.
I went around With 9
the otner inspectors, helped them perf'orm their duties.
So I 10 was working with them.
i 11 4
But-yob,-personally, were not making the inspections; 12 yoh were obseiving hon they were conducting the inspections?
M?
13 A
And assisting them in the. inspections.
14 4
But! there was another individual that would sign off in this initiai pha'se; is that right?
15 16 A
Yes.
17 4
How long did this initial phase last?
18 A
Until I was certified.
19 4
Do you know how long a period of time it was from the 20 commencement of your employment in the Q.C. Electrical Dephrtmerit 21 until you became certified?
22 A
You are talking about 5 months, I'm not sure about 23 the date.
24 q,
Does that sound approximately cor ect.
r 25 A.
I thoucht it:was'eleser to 4 conths: but h or 's m'nnths gygLyn sanotR ASSOCIATES. STSNOTYPE pePORTeng SamveCE. CMAALOTTE. NORTM CanOUNA
McAPEE - Direct 78.
-_s..
49.
1 okay.'
gu 2'
4 Fine, and where were you employed, what area of the 3
plant?
4 A
Reactor Building Number 1,. Pipe Chase Auxiliary Build -
5 ing and the Cable Room.
And as I said earlier, I can't remem-6 ber the elevation that I worked on primarily.
7 Q
What crew, who was your Supervisor?
8 A
Supervisor was Dick Haney.
9 4
Dick Haney was your Supervisor for how long?
10 A
Nine months.
11 4
How did you become certified?
12 A
You go through at least 3 months on-the-job training; t:
s.
13 and then you go through, I guess, 3 or 4 days of in class train.-
14 ing, which I guess wer were in class actually about half the 15 day; and then you are tested on inspection criteria.
Then M
eventually you are certified if you pass.
17 4
And did you go through this entire program?
18 A
Yes.
19 4
And were you certified?
20 A
Yes.
21 4
As a Q.C. Inspector, do you have concerns concerning 22 the safety of Catawba and the proper construction of Catawba?
23 A
Yes, my concerns grew as time went on and as I became 24 more aware of the way the program was actually carried out.
25 4
Now, you have already discussed several items, and let gygLYN SEh4Em ASSOCLATGS. STEMOTTPE REPORTING SenytCE. CManLOTTE. NORTM CAROUMA
.--.____,m
McAFEE - Direct 79 fy,;
i me just repeat these and see if there are any a'dditional ones; Of 2
but I have these listed under the title Q.C. Inspector:
Alot 3
of work not done correctly the first time because construction-4 not informed how to do the work, procedures not conveyed.
5 You knew the procedures, you being Q.C. Inspectors; but the 6
craft, in your estimation, didn't understand the procedures?
7 A..
Correct.
8 4
Lets talk about that point:
You mentioned anchor 9
bolts as an example.
What is a support for that concern?
10 What specific instance are you making reference to?
11 A
Well, other-than the one I alludedte earlier, it was 12 a common problem that not so much in my experience clone, but (N
'~'
13 in the experience of other inspectors, that they witnessed alot 14 of anchor bolts with just one put in correctly according to -the l
construction procedure and according to the criteria we had to 15 16 inspect by.
U Q
Now where were these anchor bolts located?
l 18 A
In various areas of the plant.
19 4
What happened?
Let me stop yca.
What areas of the 20 plant, throughout the plant or --
l l
21 A
Throughout the plant, yes.
22 4
What did you do 'about it when you came across these 23 anchor boltr'.that were not properly installed?
24 A>
Well, as I said, by the time I became certified a 25 great deal of the problem had been corrected; but they finally EVELYN ggmGER ASSoctATES. STENOTYPE REPORTS 40 SteveCE. CManLOTTE. NORTM CAmouMA
McAFEE - Dirse,t 80 r
I did instruct the craft people.
k; 2'
4 "We werd talking about the anchor bolt, and you said 3
by the time you were certified the situation was corrected be-1 4
cause --
5 A
It had gotten hetter because they had carried out some 6
classes teaching craft people how to correctly install them.
ipparently before they just gave them the anchor bolt and said 7
8 "Here go put them in."
And this was after they had given us 9
the instruction' on how to install them and we suggested maybe 10 you ought to tell the craft people how to put them in.
11 Q
Did they have to get certified ind how to put these w.-,.
bolts in, to the best of your knowledge?
12 13 A
I don't know.
14 4
So from the time you were certified you did not en-15 counter any problem in installed anchor bolts; is that correct?
16 A
Yes, I did encounter some.
17 4
What happened when you encountered some?
l l
18 A
Well, there was the situation I alluded to earlier 19 in the reactor building, Pipe Chase in the cable tray supports.
l 20 4
Yes, which is Cecil Cox?
l 21 A
Yes.
l 22 4
Okay, let's talk about that, just the cable chase support.
Cecil Cox supervised the crew doing the work, and thi 23 s
(-
24 had to' do with you could not determine the length of the bolt; l
l 25 is that correct?
EVELYN etnGER A550Cl#Tes. STENOTTPE REpourfiNG SEmytCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CAmOLINA l
^
M6AFEE - Dirset 81 i
A Correct.
NA*
2 4
And you said you wanted to write up an NCI.
Actually 3
you said "we said."
Who was "we"?
4 A
.Myself and the inspector I worked with, Johnny Byers.
5 4
How do you spell'that?
6 A
Byers.
7 4
An'd you both felt that you should write up an NCI?
s A
Yes, thst is what we intended to do.
9 4
And you talked to Jim Allgood; is that correct?
10 A
Yes.
11 4
And.he said he would check it out?
12 A
Thata correct, yes.
4E' 13 4
. And he said he could determine a length by radiographic 14 - means; 13 that correct?
15 A
Yes.
16 Q
What kind of radiographic means?
l i7 A
I don't know, I'm not familiar with radiography.
18 Q
And then the next day someone said that this had been l
19 done; is that correct?
20 A
Yes.
21 4
Who was that someorie?
22 A
Jim Allgood.
23 Q
And you asked to see the results; 1s that correct?
24 A '
Yes.
25 Q
And what happened?
EVELYN bamGER ASSOCIATE S. STEpeoD *E REPORTtfee SamvCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROLaosA
McAFEE - Direct 82 gsy 1
A I never saw the results.
(..,
2 Q
All right and to your knowledge that is where the 3
matter had been left?
4 A
To my knowledge, yes.
5 Q
Did you seek to follow up on that matter?
6 A
This occured not too long before I quit.
7 4
So I ask you the question, did you follow up on this 8
matter?
9 A
No.
10 4
Now let.as get back to the anchor bolts in general.~
11 The anchor belts you. saw.as a Q.C. Inspector that you determined 12 were improperly inserted, we have talked about this one now with (2
- " ~
13 Cecil Cox and Jim Allgoud.
Were there any other anchor bolts?
14 A
There were no other anchor bolts that I had to inspecS
{
15 and approve.
Now I saw some other anchor bolts but they were 16 not my inspection responsibility.
1 l
17 4
And you don't know if those were corrected or not?
IS A
No, I don't.
19 4
With respect to the anchor bolts that you scw prior 20 to the correction, the training that you alludedte that was given 21 to the craft people, were those deficiencies corrected?
M A
Some of them were; I know some of them were.
I don't 23 know that all of them were.
s.
24 q,
Do you know as a fact whether any anchor bolts had been 25 improperly installed?
gygLTN ggRGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE RTPORTING SgRvsCE. CHARLOTTE. NOWTN CARouMA w
McAFEE - Dirict 83 A
Would you repeat that?
1
(~
2 4
Do you know as a fact whether there are any improperly 3
installed anchor bolts at Catawba today?
A
.Not today.
I can't say there are today because I 4
5 haven't been there.
If you improperly install an anchor bolt you can knock out the concrete, fill the hole and start again; 6
7 so it is not something you can't fix.
3 4
When you left Catawba were you of the view that there g
were any improperly installed' anchor bolts at Catawba?
io A
Yes.
11 q
Which ones?
12 A
Well, as I all6dedto the one in reactor building Pipe
, db 13 Chase --
34 Q
That is the ene Cecil Cox, Jim Allgood --
15 A
Yes.
16 4
Any other ones to your knowledge?
l
.37 A
To my knowledge, not that I can point my finger at.
(
is Q
Now the next item I have here is poor document contro3 ;
19 Did work on basis of superceded prints that had been revised.
l 20 What are you referring to there?
21 A
Well, once a print is revised ther, the prints' previous; 22
?evision is superceded and work is not supposed to bc done from 23 that blueprint.
24 4
Are superceded prints permitted in the field?
n A
We were only permitted to keep some that we had init$aled l
.mm........ciar.. ns~orv e== *o r-a 4= =v'ca. caa=om "o"* c^"*"^
I M3AFEE - Dir00t 8 14 l
1 alot of things on just for our records that had " superceded" g%.
2 stamped all over them.
The craft is not supposed to keep them 3
is my understanding.
4 4
What is your concern here, that the craft did work 5
on the bs! sis of superceded prints?
6 A
Yes, not saying it was the craft's fault in all cases 7
It was probably Document Control's fault that they didn't get 8
all the superceded prints up, and all the new prints out.
.9 Q
What incidents are you referring to tJ Eupport this 10 allegation?
11 A
It is just, well, one incident with Electrical Foreman 12 Bobby Land, we were discussing some cable tray supports with F.
13 him a;1d we discovered that he was working off of an old print, 14 a superceded print, in fact,.which was not marked " superceded,"
l 15 which he didn't know had been superceded.
We informed him of 16 that and he went up to Document Control and got the proper print.
17 Q
Where was this area?
16 A
Cable Room.
19 Q
Did Mr. Land correct the situation?
20 A
Yes, he went and got the proper documents.
21 MR. GUILD:
Counsel, he is repeating exactly the 22 same facts, sme specific incidents that he did 20 pat;es 23 ago in my notes when you asked him several hours ago 24 about this same incident.
25 MR. McGARRY:
I didn't get into detail, Counsel.
,,,t,,,..... noci.re s. su~orv = =< *oaraa a av'c < '"^"
~
o McAPEE - Direct g.
1 MR. GUILD:
Bobby Land, electrical crew, cable
'a.
2 tray supports, work was not performed properly, he 3
was satisfied with the correction.
4 MR. McGARRY:
If you will bear with me, I have 5
no problem with that if I see something here when I 6
' get down to my notes on the next page.
7 MR. GUILD:
Mr. McAfee is asking me "why is he 8
asking me to repeat all of the things I finished say-9 ing?" and it is beginning to seem to me that is what to is happening.
11 MR. McGARRY: I see Bobby Land; is that the inci-12 dent you have previously discussed?
G5-13 THE WITNESS:
No, it was not.
It was a logical 14 mistake on Bob's part.
15 MR. McGARRY:
I am not trying to belabor this 16 point.
I am trying to go through each one of these l
17 incidents and find out what you know about it.
l 18 MR. QUILD: Please wake me up.
19 THE WITNESS:
This was a separate incident, but 20 Bob had no way of knowing that; it sounds very much 21 the same.
22 23 BY MR. McGARRY:
24 4>
Having said that, Mr. Land did correct the situation i
l M
and you were satisfied?
Ev8LTM, SSRGE R ASSOCIATES. STSNOTTPE REPORTewG SERvtCE. CMARLt?TTE. NORTM CAROUNA
t MaAarr - Dimet 86 t-4, 1
Ac Yes.
2 4
Now are'there any other incidents to support this 3
allegation of poor document control?
4 A
No, those are the only specifics.
5 Q
The next'one I have is control room leaking water on 6
control boards.
Is that a concern that arose when you were a 7
Q.C. Inspector?
8 A
Yeah.
9 4
Now my understanding of this one is you didn't person 10 ally observe the situation?
11 A
Yes, I did.,
12 g
4 Tell me about it.
.q-13 4
y,11, live Cdiready done that.
I said water was 14 standing on the roof.
It soaked through the concrete on the 15 ceiling.
It was like the whole ceiling was rai.iing water on l
16 the control room boards.
Another inspector red tagged the 17 control room board.
18 4
What inspector?
19 A
Tory Coleman, I believe.
20 Q
What type of inspector was he?
21 A
Electrical Quality and Control.
22 4
Was the Control Room under your area of jurisdiction',
23 if you will?
(
e4 A'
No, it was his.
25 4
What is the significance of water le king on the a
EVELvN SSNGGEf ASSOCIATGS. $1GNOTvPg arePOsrTING SearvtCE. CManLOTTE NORTM CAROUNA
o McAFEE - Direct 87 1
control board in your estimation that supports your allegation?
2
'A Well, iIt is -- as you know,' water and electricity 3
don't mix, and water and electrical components don't mix very 4
well either -- and the control boards that were in the control 5
room at that time had been fabricated in the warehouse, kept 6
under very strict storage conditions.
7 When they were over in the warehouse they didn't letn 8
the rain in on them, they kept them at a certain temperature 9
level and both the temperature and-the water requirements for 10 storage of these boards were violated.
11 4
How do you know that the controls that you have been 12 just discussing were under strict measures in the warehouse?
- *Y' 13 A
Because of my training as Q.C. Inspector.
14 4
And was the control room operable at the time of this 15 leaking?
16 A
17 4
Yes; was it operating, were people utilizing these 18 controls at that time water was leaking on them?
19 A
They were still: fabricating.
l 20 4
Do you know if this water had any adverse impact on 21 the equipment in the control'rcom?
ZZ A
I can't say that; I know that it did, I kn'ow that 13 it didn't do it any good and it was contrary to its storage 24 requirements, the conditions under which it was stored.
SS 4
Do you know if this equipment would be subsequently EVELYN SERGen a.SOCIATES. STENOTTPE RSPORT NG SENWCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
M2AFEE - Direct 88 m
I checked and reviewed by Q.C. prior to its being made operable?
t.
2 A
It should be.-
3 Q
What does a red tag mean or signify?
4 A
Non-conforming item.
5 4
What would happen with respect to this equipment that 6
had a red tag?
7 A
No work thould be done on this equipment until the NCI 'as resolved.
8 w
9 4
Was the NCI written up?
10 A
Yes.
11 4
What was the resolution?
12 A
To install space heaters in the area around the contrc l
13 boards; that was my understanding of,the resolution.
14 4
Do y,ou know if those space heaters were installed?
15 A
Yes, they were.
16 4
Do you know if any other actions were taken with 17 respect to the equipment that was. leaked upon?
18 A
No.
19 4
The next item you make reference to is while walking 20 through the plant you saw people pulling cables and saw people 21 dalking on cables and pulling' cables?
22 A
Yes.
23 4
Where abouts in the plant?
24 A
In the area around the Cable Room and the auxiliary 25 luilding.
EvfLYN SERGER AssOCIAfss STENOTTPt REPORTING srRvtCE. CNARLOTTE NORTH CAmouMA
~
,_.-,___..-..-y..-,--,_,.__-_.__.-y--
,,-r,
- _ - - - - ~
-r-.y
,e-.--__
~
McAFEE - Direct 89 1
4 Was this an area under your inspection jurisdictionY 2
A
- yes, 3
Q Were you walking through these areas specifically to 4
examine or inspect how the cables are being pulled?
5 A
No, we weren't.
See, this was after the cables were 6
pulled that they were allowed to fall into improper storage, 7
if you will.
They are supposed to be kept tied up where they 8
couldn't get damaged, but in some cases they might have a walk 9
board, maybe supporting a walkboard or they may?have::b'eent cut to down because semebody needed a piece of rope and they are laying 11 on the floor where they could be walked on.
12 4
Was the cable that you are referring to cable that g..,
~y-13 was going to be used in the plant?
14 A
Yes.
15 4
Was it excess cable?
16 A
No, it was cable that had been pulled to do a job.
II Q
When cable was pulled to do a job is there ever any 18 excess?
19 A
They always leave some excess just so they will make 20 sure and have enough; but you might have a roll 20 feet long 21 that la coiled or rolled up, and it is tied up.
All of that 22 is not excess.
That roll starts where the cable tray support 23 ends.
24 4>
What did you do about the situationrwhen you saw it?
25 A
I contacted the electrical forenen and got them to EVELYN SEmOEm ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE mEPORT1sse SEmysCE. CMARLOTTE. NOmTM Camouha
A McAFEE - Diract 90
~
I
,r 7-maintain proper storage on them.
- s..
~
2 4
Who was the electrical foreman that you contacted?
3 A
Bobby Land.
4 4
And did he correct the situation?
5 A
Yes, sir.'
6 4
Are you satisfied with that correction?
7 A
Yes, I was.
8 4
Now the next area is work load of welding inspectors 9
under stress from supervision to get the job done.
10 A
Craft Supervision.
11 g
yem sorry, the craf, the actual welders?
12
,f.
A Yes, the welders and the foremen; they weren't under
'i.
13 pressure from their supervision.
I4 4
I see. What examples, what instances support that 15 allegation?
16 A
Well, just welding foremen getting on, ' ha rassing, U
if you will, building inspectors and telling them to approve I8 it.
I9 4
You are not a welding inspector; is that correct?
oo A
That's correct.
91 Q
How do you know th'at welders ha'rassed welding inspec
~
oo
~~
tors?
03 A
Becaure I witnessed it.
94
~
q' Where?
A In the auxiliary building, reactor building one.
EVELYN SERGEP ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVtCE. ChamLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA r---
,,wr
,.--.r-,
-,e
,---w-..--
, -, - - ~ - -
w
5v x'.
McAFEE - Direct 91 w
e fy, 1
4 And what was the building inspector's reaction?
2 A
Well, he turned around and walked off.
u 3
4 Do you know if the welding inspectors failed to do 4
the job they were supposed to do in that instance?
5 A
I do not.
6 4
Do you know?
7 A
My understanding is that he refused to inspect it.
8 4
Who was --
9 A
That guy was.harsasing him.
p to 4
Who was the welding inspector?
4.
[
11 A
I don't recall.
e.
12 4
Do you know if that welding inspector came back and C*
'},,
13 inspected?
14 A
I don't know for a fact that he did.
15 4
Who did the a'rassing?
16 A
The welder.
17 4
Which welder?
18 A
I don't recall his name.
19 4
To the best of your knowledge do you know as a fact M
that the welds that were-supposed to be inspected were not in-21 spected?
M A
I don't know personally of any that were not inspected 23 that were supposed to have been inspected-secause all I had to 24 do as far as my responsibility was to verify if something I was i
25 inspecting had a weld on it, that it was inspected.
I made sure
.mv.......oci.r...r.~ovm
.v,.o..
.c.. ca.=om. ~om ca.ouu.
j u
we weaver _ nir.et gg gp.
I of that, anything that I inspected.
O 2'
4 And'in each instance you, indeed, found it was the 3
proper inspection?
4 A
Yes.
5 4
I am just asking you from your personal knowledge --
6' A
Yes.
7 4
Number nine, training for Q.C. Inspectors was carried 8
cut in second hand manner; person training us was receiving 9
instruction from Cherokee.
You never met the individual from 10 Cherokee that signed your certification?
11 A
I never met.that person.
12 4
What is the importance; significance of this?
-Ql 13 A
The person was giving instruction for how to instruct 14 from someone from Cherokee whom we never saw, never met or talked 15 to.
16 4
Do you mean then that the instruction you got was
.17 improper, inferior?
18 A
I was concerned about it.
19 4
Why were you concerned about it?
Is your concern 20 simply because of the Cherokee connections or are there other 21 specifics?
Because $f th[dherb' ee conneeti6n,..~and I[said :I-:
22 A
k 4 con-23 sidered it:second hand.
g, Second hand because of that -- I don't mean to belabo:s 24 25 the point, if there is nothing else behind this I'll press on -<
EVELYN SERGER ASSOctATES, STENOTTPE REPORTthG SEnvCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUN4
McAFEE - Direct M
g i
Is there anything else behind the second training allegation qy 2
other than what we have said?
3 A
That is basically it.
4 4
Nothing else?
5 A
Yeah.
6 4
Cecil Cox and Bobby Land, this was the cable tray 7
support grid in the cable room and it was Bobby Land.
You 8
say work was not pursuant to the blue prints.
You told Bobby 9
Land he had a problem and he corrected it; and then you were 10 satisfied and is that an accurate summation?
11 A
Yes..-
~
12 4
I think we have O'aiready discussed that one, I agree 13 The next item were blue prints changed to reflect construction 14 errors, and I think we have fairly discussed that one.
You
.15 mentioned scaffolding, scaffolding was defective or improperly 16 installed.
17 A
It was shaky; I mean if you're up lo, 15,20 feet on 18 a scaffold and you have the responsibility of checking to make 19 sure that a nut or bolt is torched, taking the measurments.down 20 to a 1 action of an inch, trying to see if a weld had been 21 inspected and looking for a vis-okay on it; and the inspector's 22 initials, it is hard to do it when your feet and the scaffold 23 are moving and swinging under you.
w 24 4>
Where did the swinging scaffold exist?
25 A
Auxiliary building.
EVELYN BE8H5Em ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CManLOTTE. MONTM CAmouMA
+ -
-,,--w--r-
-w ew.,.
,,e-,----oe, m,-
e-e,--,
,m,-e
- - ~ ~ -
nn
.. -_ 7-_ _ _
g:
4 What' elevation, what location?
1 A
This w'as in the lower elevat' ions, 522, the actual 2
8 elevatinns has gotten kind;of, ayou.know, way back in my memory.
4 540 was another.
5 4
So there were several instances?
6 L
Yes.
4 Whafi work were you inspecting when you were on these 7
8 swaying scaffolds?
9 A
Cable tray hangers.
10 Q
Do you maintain that this scaffolding impaire'd your 4
II ability to do your work?
12 g
7,,,
g3 C
Do you sign off on the work that you were inspecting?
I3 A
If it was per print; if it wasn't - in other words, Id 15 if I couldn't get. to see something I would either get a ladder, 16 shore up a scaffold,;or whatever I had to do to verify it.
I didn't sign something off and say I guess it is okay.
I didn't I
38 do that kind of work.
I8 Did you have authority to have scaffold tshored up?
Q 20 A
That is a good question, I don't know.
They never told us we could go and get scaffold builders.
When we needed 21 a scaffold there was one we could drag over and fix if there wasn't one
'. already there.
f.
\\.
o4
~
q' So as I understand the sensing of the scaffolds, j
25 eventually you completed your aepointed task.
EVELTN SERGER ASSOC 1ATES. STSNOTYPf! REPOsrTtNG SEnvlCE. CMARLOTTE, MOsrTH CamouMA
..,,,n,
McAFEE - Direct 95 1
A' Right.
(y-2 4
And ' eventually you satisfied yourself here the work 3
was properly done, or if.it wasn't you took appropriate action; 4
'is that right?
5 A
Right.
6' 4
Just so I'm complete, wheh I look at your response 7
to Interrogatory 80, which we previously discussed, the only 8
item that appears we haven't discussed was with respect to fih-8 adequate testing, training supervision of Quality Control Inspe :-
10 tors, inadequate training.
We have dise".ssed inadequate testing; we h'aven't dis-II 12 cussed inadequate supervision.
Let's discuss those two, what 13 do you mean by inadequate testing of Quality Control Inspectors ?
I4 A
I felt in my: personal opinion that the testing was 15 inadequate because basically we were the. net '. -- well, how 16 can I put it -- it was as if, almost as if we were told what 17 the test was going to be.
In other"wdrds, chese are the questions.
18 It wasn't quit'e that blatant, but it was almost that 19 blatant; and I consider that, as somewhat of an educator, to 90 be an inadequate form of testing if you want to find out what 91 the Ladividual knows about the given subj ect matter.
22 C
The testing was about one step that you went through 23 in receiving your certification; is that true?
24 A
Correct.
25 Q
I think you alvendv erolained you had on-the. fob GWELYN SEmOGa ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERveCE. CMARLOTTC. NonTM CAROUNA
a s
McAFFE - Direct 96
{,
training for 3 or. 4 some odd months'; is that correct?
I 2
4 y,,,
4 Do you feel that when you were certified you should 3
4 have been' certified?
5 A
Yes, I felt that I should have been.
4 Do you feel that the people that you worked with 8
7 should have been certified who were certified?
8 A
Most of them.
4 Anyone in particular you felt should not have been
~ ~
8 10 certified?
11 g
7,,,
12 4
Who were they?
A Richard Bunt 6n...,
33 14 Q
Was he in your class?
15
- A He was in my class.
16 4
And he took the same test you took?
A Tes.
38 4
Any other inspectors?
A No, the rest of them were more or less competent.
18 4
Let me just explore the testing with you so I have 20 a clear understanding:
When did you take the test relative 21 to becoming certified? Was it at the end of this on-the-job 22 23 training?
A' Well, you know, the end was not a definite - it 24 25 wasn't like a break in on the, job training.
Okay, we waited EVELYN SESNSE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTikG Se mveCE. CMamLOTTE. NORTM CAmouNA
,..~ - -. _ -. _. _, -. -,,,
..,,-,c
McAFEE - Dir7et av 1
until we had enough people for a class, was my understanding, 2
to train; and then the testing came and then I think it was about 3
- a. month later that we received our certification, the piece of paper you have there.
4 5
4 I am simply trying to understand this program.
6 A
Okay.
7 4
' Once you got into this program, the Q.C. Inspeetor 8
Program,'you were on the.iob walking around with another inspec.
9 tori 10 A
Yes.
11 Q
And you did that for X number of months?
12 A
Yes.
6%
13 4
.During that time were you going to classes; were you 14 taking tests?
15 A
No.
i 16 4
You took tests toward the end of this on-the-job trair,-
17 ing7 18 A
Yeah.
19 4
Shortly before the end of this certification?
20 A
Right, we took tests right after these three or four 21 days or half days of classroom training.
That was when the 22 tests were administered, right after this classroom training.
23 Q
While you wers in these classes the inspector instructor 24 was telling you now look, guys, here is the type of questions 25 you are going to get?
What did he say to you?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SEmytCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CamOUNA 6
e,
.,..-r..
,.,m.,.-
.,-w y
y
e-.
..r
,, - + -, - - - - -.. -. - -, -, - -,
McAFEE - Dirhet 98 1
A Basically, that is pretty much the way he put it.
3 2
4 Now I"am harkening back to my education, and you have 3
an education and I've been exposed to that situation before in 4
numerous classes; but the instructor would say to me, you take
's these notes now and you will get it back.
6 An example, it might be for a whole semester and not a 3 day perio.d, but this is what you will get, so I'm just try-7 8
ing to find out why you found that comment of the instructor 9
inappropriate.
10 A
It just seemed inappropriate to me in the circumstances.
11 The inspector I referred to had just transferred in from another i
l 12 instrumentation craft which he may have been an experienced ele c-l, 6h 13 ti'ician, but from my observation of him, you couldn't tell it.
14 And that is just my observation.
i 15 Q
So you are looking at it, it is a result-oriented ob-16 servation?
In otherwords, someone passed'the exam who in your
.17 estimation should have not passed the exam?
18 A
Correct.
19 4
And the basis for your saying that this individual 20 shouldn't have passed it is you just observed him on the job 21 and you personally had problems with him in a job sense?
22 A
And he had a hard time grasping the inspection criterd a.
23 4
Was Mr. Buntonn--- is it Bunton?'-
t 24 A
Bunton.
25 Q
---Bunton on the job when you left?
EVELTN SE RGER ASSOCIATES STENCTTPE REPORTING SERveCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROWNA
McAFEE - Dir::ct
99 1
A Yeah.
2 4
Now how' about inadequate supervision of Quality Control 3
Inspectors?
4 A
Well, let's see, Quality Supervision, I would go back 5
to what I mentioned earlier about the incident with the anchor 6
bolt and Jim Allgood.
7 4
'I'm trying to follow if t.%t 1F what that means.
Is 8
there anything else that underlies that?
9 A
That is, you know, that is pretty much the crux of 10 it.
There were'a few couple other instances which I don't S
11 remember nearly so strongly because our converstions were not 12 near as colorful as on that occasion.
, (::
13 4
Why do you think that that was improper supervision?
, 14 A
Because'I don't think it was the supervisor!.s place 15 to tell me not to write an NCI.
It was my responsibility to 16 document NCI's; and I don't feel like it was his place.
17 4
Now what other incidents were you referring to?
18 A
As I said, they were much more minor and they basically 19
-- it wasn't so much, well, it wasn't what the anchor bolt at 20 all.
It may just be --
21 4
Go ahead.
Let me put it this way:
Are there any 22 other incidents you will rely upon to support that allegation, 23 other than Allgood allegations?
24 A>
No.
25 4
I will ask you one more question, hopefully, on EVELYN BERGER ASSOcaATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SE myeCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
_m._
4 8
McAFEE - DirQct 100 Mr. Allgood:
Are you maintaining that Mr. Allgood did not have 1
the authority to resolve this matter that you brought to his i
2 attention?
3 A.
I don't know if he had the authority or not.
I'm 4
not knowledgeable about exactly what authority he did have.
He
. was not my first line supervisor.
He was the Q.C. Engineer; but I do know they told us it was the inspectors responsibility to document NCI's.
8 4
All right, let me turn to some definitions of terms g
and perhaps we can cut some of this short.
Let me, just so g
the Record is clear, there have been several comments during this Deposition about the length of the Deposition.
I just pi..
w..
want the Deposition to reflect it is now 9:30.
We started at g
6 o' clock, that is 3 and a-half hours.
I believe the Record.
reflects other Depositions taken this week and last week have g
taken longer.
I am doing the best I can in moving this along.
~ '
I' do' 't' think 3 anii a' ' half hou'rs 5.s an extremely n
n
- e C '*-Don $ 'aN6unt' of ' time t,o dep$s'eThis witness.
is MR. GUILD:
You and Mr. Carr have not been present g
g All the rest of Counsel have been here examining wit-21 [.?
nessesf or: part1'cipating in Depositions all day long,
,2 and the hour is late and I appreciate you have a job
- O dO*
23 MR. McGARRY:
Let me make another observation on 24 the Record.
We started this Deposition at 6 o' clock
, 3 3 sveom seaosa associares. srenorves asaoarAS **"v'c8 C"^"'*
" "" *^"" ""
wawr ns.et W
1
~
as an accommodation to Palmetto Alliance.
We Noticed 2
~
the Deposition at l'o' clock.
We'all understood we 3
might go late, so I would appreciate again not the 4
side bar comments.
Let's press on.
5 6
BY MR. McGARRY:
7 4
.With respect to definitions of terms in Interrogai:ory 8
80 Responses, there is reference made to faulty workmanship and 9
to lack of proper Quali,ty Assurance and to Company pressure; 10 and actually the Company pressure is mentioned in Interrogatory
. 11 Response 108, itnd I jus.t want to assure myself -- we have been
. 12 talking about faulty workmanship; is that correct?
. ??
13 g
-(The witness nodded his head affirmatively )
14 Q
And we have been talking about inadequate Quality 15 Assurance; is that correct?
16 A
(The witness nodded his head affirmatively.)
II 4
And again, you are nodding your head.
I8 A
Excuse me, yes.'
I9 4
To both questions?
20 A
Yes.
21 4
Have we talked about Company pressure also?
22
~~
A Yes.
23 Q
So all the incidents you have talked about today 24 embrace' those three categories; and I don't have to pursue those 25 further to f$nd out if there ave any n*ba* ine4da-*a
- ka*
"ad=~-
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA G
9 McAFEE - Diract 102 1
liee substandard workmanship, faulty, inadequate Q. A. or Com-2 pany pressure?
3 A.
Correct.
4 4
.Let me follow up one other area of Company pressure:
5 In the Interrogal;ory Responses under Responses of Palmetto Alli--
6-ance, and they are dated April 28, 1982, I refer you to 107; 7
and I think we have talked about Company pressure and focuses 8
on the circled words there, " threats of retalia'.; ion.'
Is 9
that a concern of Ron McAfee?
10 MR. GUILD:
Do you have a question?
11 MR. JOHNSON:
What is the Company pressure which 12 you contend has occured?
, N.sD
,g 14 BY MR. McGARRY:
15 4
And I'm asking Ron McAfee's answer.
16 A.
I was never threatened, on the job site that is.
How-17 aver, if you would like to expand on that, at a Rock Hill City 18 Counsel-meeting --
19 4
I am not sure -- you asked me if I wanted you to eI-
~
20 pand on that -- while you were employed at Duke Power Company 21 were you threatened?
2 A
No.
23 MR. GUILD:
Let's have the Record then become C
24 complete.
25 MR. McGARRY:
I didn't ask a question so I think
.m,........oci.n...n om. mvi~a...vic.. c= =orre. ~o ra caoua
'McAfna - Direct 103 I
g it is not the subject of my examination.
2 MR. GUILD:
Well, I think the witness had an 3
answer he wanted to offer to the question; and he 4
should be allowed to complete his answer to the 5
question..
6 MR. McGARRY:
No, because I did not ask the~
7 question.
He anticipated the question and said --
8 MR. GUILD:
I think you asked him if he had
- 9 ever been subject of a threat or retaliation; and 10 you narrowed the question to eliminate his answer.
11 If the Record is to be complete, you should allow 12 him to complete his answer.
13 MR. McGARRY:
I have no question pending.
14 15 BY MR. McGARRY:
16 Q
Mr. McAfee, I would now like to focus on an area of 17 your pursuit of the deficiencies that you observed at Catawba; 18 and I will make reference to Interrogatory Response 90, and 19 actually 90 through 93 of April 28, 1982 Responses to 20 Palmetto Alliance.
21 I would imagine you were the B of Number 90, MR. GUILD:
And the questior., Coun'sel?
22 MR. McGARRY:
And the question, Number 90.--
(.-
(Whereupon, Mr. McGarry read from the 1
24 eited Interrogatory.)
25 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SEnveCE. CMARLOTTE. NO8rTM CAROUNA
+--,,--.--.,--,--,,-2--..
.,>-..w,. -. - -.
---,--w
,%,,--.y.
__y y
__y_-.---=-y c
,y m-
McAFEE Direct 104 1
BY M R.
McGARRY:
..g 2
O Is that Answer you now have before you to 3
Inte r r o g at o r y 90, 90-B 4
A Yes.
5 Q
Do you have anything to add to that?
6 A
No, 7
Q
- Okay, can I just see that; a n d. Di c k Haney, 8
I b e li e v e we ha e alr e ad y discussed; and Jim A ll g o o d 9
we have discussed.
10 It says "Other persons whose nam e s and 11 p o s ition s
- r. r e pr e s ently u n kn own. "
What does that 12 mean ?
G:c.
13 A
W ell, you know, I shared my concerns with 14 Johnny Byers, who was my inspector / partner, you 15 might say.
16 We worked together.
I d o n 't know wher e
17 he is now.
He has been fir e d.
18 Q
Ninety-one, it says "If the answer to 19 Interrogatory 89 is a f fir ma tiv e, " and it was; "What was the concern expressed, and what was the s pe cific 20 nature of the concern expressed?"
21 I will show you, here is 91-B (indicating) 22 23 Are you s atis fie d with that response?
(-
W ell, yes; at va rious tim e s it pretty much 24 3,
sums it as far as I und e r s tood your qu e s tio n.
25 EvgLYN BERGER ASSOC &ATES, STENOTYPE REPORTme SERVCE. CMARLOTTE. NO8rTM CAmouMA
M c A FEE - Direct inc I
g Q
' A sid e from what we have discussed today, 2
is there a n y t h i n g~ e'I s e you want to add in with respe ct 3
to which concerns were expressed and what was the 4
of the concern expressed?
s p e cific nature A
No. '
6 Q
Just so I'm clear and the Recard is clear, 7
I b eli e v e you have been responsive and you have give n 8
us this inf o r ma tio n thr ou gh ou t the course of the D e p o s ition.
I just want to know if there is a n y thin g e.l s e 11 l'm t r yi n g to d o u b l e - c h e c k',
quite frankly.
12 A
That'e right.
b
13 Q
Nu mbe r 92 says "If the Answer to Interrogat ory 14 90 is a f fi r m a ti v e, what was the response of the
~
15 s p e cific individu als to whom concerns were expressed ?"
16 And your answer was " Anger and f r u s t r atio n.
17 A nd would that be Jim A llg o o d and would that be Dick 18 Haney?
19 A
Yes.
20 Q
Also?
21 A
Yes.
22 t
(
24 3
l 25 l
gvfLYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPOanNG SENyfCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA l
i 106 u,: ar6r'_
n -,.,
i
{
Q-And in A 11 g o o' d,
you have alread'y described 2
thatl I did n' t pick up a fl a.v o r. o f anger and f ru stra-3 tioni but who was Haney again?
4 A
'M y fir s t-lin e supervisor.
5 Q
What was the incid e nt with Haney?
Just a e 6
cuss word is all I know.
7 A
- Well, we haven't talked about a particular 8
incident.
~
~
Q L e t 's. t sik about it.
10 A
Okay, he was j u s t--wh en I went to
- 1. i m and 11 discussed these thin g s--I guess we will have to attri-12
- g.,
bute the anger to Jim. and the f ru s tration to Dick V ;'
13
- Haney, because he was frustrated; not only with the 14 job we were g e ttin g
'a s far as th e c r af t, but the fact 15 that on to p of the fact that there was always s o m e thi ng 16 th at they were fin din g wrong was f ru s tratin g to him.
17 Q
Do you have any p ro blem s with Mr.
Haney?
18 A
No, not any s e riou s problems.
19 Q
Number 93, "If the Answer to Interrogatory 20 89 is af firm ativ e, was any subsequent a c tio n pa rt of 21 any individual's concern referenced that has a bearin g
22 on this C o nt e ntion ?
23 "If so, please id e n tif y. "
Read Number 93 so C
24 we can pursue that; will you?
25 A
That Ie snt
-7 a e, e w s,
svetv=_ esmoen associaras. stuworves esposmwo esavice. CHARLOTTs. nom CAmouma
MeAfA.
_ n4
.et inn 1
gp, Q-O kay, 'what ' would your answer be?
R e a d. t h e,9 diquis tion a g ai.2 2
A 3
M R. ;.d G U I L D. i Can we just see the qu e stio n?
4 (Whereupon, th e Witn e s s was shown 5
the.' requested d o.c u m e n t. )
6 7
T HE ;WITN ESS:
A ll the incidents that we 8
'have discussed, "Did you ever write up an
- 9 N CI ? "
o tell you the truth, my memory is 10
-not r e al.cle ar on whether I did or not; so I II d on 't know.
12
$N
~
s _-
13 B Y M R'.
M cG A RR Y:
14 Q
With r e s p ec t to the inc id e nt s we have dis cu s e sd, 15 was the NRC contacted to the best of your kn owle d g e 16 with r e s p e c t. t o any of there matte r s ?
17 A
C on ce rnin g me?
18
'Q C on c e rnin g th e matters that you have raised 19 here today; do you know if the NRC was advised of 20 any of those matte r s ?
21 A
Not that I know of.
22 M R.
GUILD:
I think the answer is probably 23 responsive when he was on the job; and since 24 the li ti g a t io n is pending, it should be r e fle c t ed 25 documents have been e.xchanced that r e fle ct 1
l evetvw samana associatus. svanetvas nem,*o samvics cuantorsa. no=Tw camouma l
i
McAfee Diroct
. lo g NR C 's concern.
I
_g.
M R.
McGARRY:
Yes, I think that is' ver r 2
P ul.
And to c la rif y it, one of the Interr a-hel f
3 4
,gatory Responses made reference to NRC re-Ports; but is that Hoopengardner or M r.
M cAfee?
5
.MB.
GUILD:
Yes.
6 7
SY M R.
McGARRY:
8 Q
L et m e, just to pursue it-- s in c e you have 9
lef t the e m p lo ym e n t of Duke Power C o mp a ny, do you 10 know if any of the ma tte r s you have raised here toda r 11 have been brought to the attention of NRC?
12 A
It is my und e r s tanding that they have been.
N_:
13 Q
Did you bring th e m to NRC 's a tt e ntion ?
I4 A
No.
15 Q
Who brought them to the N RC 's a tt e n tion ?
16 A
M r.
Hoopengardner has. brought s o :n e to their 17 attention.
18 Q
I'm talking about Ron M c A f e e's concerns.
19 M R.'
GUILD:
The Record should be clear 20 that the Chairman of the Licensing Board, as
1 I am sure Coun s el is aware, directed a Mem o l
l 22 to the NRC Staff in response to Pa tmetto 23 A lli a n c e 's do cum ent s r e fle c tin g Mr.
Mc A f e e's
/
24 concerns.
And there are details, Staff 2
25
- Records, that r e fl e c t the response to that.
EvtLYN SenGER ASSOC 4ATES. STS8eOTYPE REPORTme Samv4E. CMARLOTTE NOstTM CAROUNA
M c A F.E E - Diroct 2
109 1
BY MR.
.M c G A R R Y':
k5?
2
. Q
~ri e..Y o,u g a,r e. r,e f e r r i n g to a N o ve mn e r 4,
1982
~~
3 letter f ro m 'M r.
.J.o h n s o n.t o the. Board concerning thic 4
m atte r.
5 Did the NRC contact you cencerning concerns 6
that you had relative to the safe o p e r a tio n at C atawba.?
7 A
I have n e v,e r been contacted by the NRC.
8 Q
Were you contacted by the NR C 's Of fi c e of
.9 Inve s tigation s at. t h e A tla nta Field O f fic e ?
10 A
No, I w a s n' t.
- r. >
11 Q
Just trying to refresh your r e'c o l l e c t i o n ; let 12 me hand you a document that was served on the Boarc, 6-13 and Partie s (indicating); and it bears an October 8,
i 14 1982 date.
~
15 And it is an attachment to the Novembe r 8 16 letter; and why don't you take a moment and read it.
17 A
I do not remember any conve r s ations with 18 the m, wit h NRC, A tla n t a.
19 I do r e c all th em corresponding with Counsel, 20 and since the le tt e r was, "We suggested he make Mr.
21 McAfee and Mr.
Hoopendardner s u b mit to the in ve s ti-22 g ation. "
23 That was relayed to me by C oun s el, but I do
(
24 n ot r e c all a c o nve r s a tio n at all.
M Q
Now just a s kin g you for your own personal EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STEMOTYPE REPOfrT1Pse SERWtCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUMA e
-=,--.,m
n.
,.-,,,-,---m-e.,
-n. - - - - ~, - - -,
---~,----r->
,--m-
~
Direct M c A FEE 110 1
knowled ge and in f o r m.a ti o n, this next series of ques-2 tion s, you m a d e t. r e'f e r e n c e to C oun s el r e c eivin g an 3
inquiry from NR C 's O f fic e of In s p e c tion and Enforce-4 m en t, 1 -p r e s um e.
Is that correct?
5 M R.
GUILD:
- Counsel, I think there is 6
probably some document that r e fl e c t s the ex-7 act course of d e alin g,.
and not to try to para 8
phrase th e m.
9 I dc.a't think it is tcally m at e rial to the 10 d e p o s ition.
If you want to have an O f f-th e -
11 Record dis cu s sion and dig out some document s 12
- later, but I think th a t the Witne s s is answer- -
G..'s 13 ing responsively to the subjects within his 14 knowledge.
15 16 3Y M R.
McGARRY:
17 Q
I was picking up on your reference to corres 18 pondence that your C oun s el had with the NRC, and I 19 just want to know your opinion.
20 Were you he sitant or did you not want to talk 21 to the NRC,
- you, Ron McAfee?
22 A
Me, Ron M c A f e e, I
saw no reason why I shou ld M
talk to the NRC at that p a r ti cu la r point in the lic e n s -
iL 24 ing.
25 Q
What was the basis for your p o s i t i o n ?'
gygLvN SamGER ASSOCIATE S. STENOTTPS RSPONTING SE RvCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAmOUNA
M c A FIE Direct 111 3
A.
I just felt that there was no reason to.
0
,,Y u had co,ncerns about Catawba 1 is that 2
correct?
3 A
(The W i t'n e s s nodded his head af fir ma tively. )
4 Q
And in your opinion you felt th e r e would be 5
no ad vant a g e to bringing these concerns to th e atten-6 tion of the NRC?
7 A
No; in my o pi nio n I felt that the NRC could 8
n ot do anything about my concerns.
.9 Q
What was the basis for that opinion ?
10 A
The basis for that opinion is that as a worke r
. 11 12 at C atawba and since then I've seen how the NRC
. f43 2
13 Operates; and in my opinion they are b a s ic ally s
a rubber stamp for the industry.
14 15 They are not r e a lly interested in what my concerns are; and so they are not going to in ve s tig at e 16 in a serious s en s e wha t my concerns are.
37 l
M R.
GUILD:
You asked the qu e s tio n.
ig M R.
M cG ARR Y:
And I wis h you hadn't 19 l
3 here we go 21 22 BY MR McG ARRY:
23 Q
What instances are you r ef e r rin g to where yo u t lji e NRC rubber stamp a c ti viti e s at the Catawba s
24 saw 25 P lant?
svetyn sanoen associates. sTsworves maronimo senvect. cuantorra. wonrw camouma
M 'c A F E E - Diroct 112 I
A W ell, the time I was there when an NRC
(,..
2 inspector did come, he made a very light in s p e c tion, 3
if you want to c all 'it that.
4
.H e looked at paperwork on blueprints and pap er-5 work.
I never saw one go even down into the plant.
6 Q
Who was this NRC Inspector?
7 A
I don't know.
8 Q
How. of ten did you see him ?
0 A
He came twice while-I was in s p e c tin g.
10 Q
W ould you have occasion to see him ?
11 A
I saw him in the o ffic e in passing.
12 Q
C a t a w b a. -i s a big sit e; is. it not?
hi:
13 A
y e s,,
14 Q
W ould you expect to see him every day?
15 A
No; he only came for one day at a ti m e.
16 Q
How do you know he only came one day?
17 A
T hi s is the one, the electrical that d e alt wit h 18 the Electrical QC, He was there on-site one day.
19 Q
One day during your e n ti r e 20 d a'y at a time.
As I r e c a ll, there A
No; one 01 were two visits to our Electrical QC Group while I
~
22 was an in s p ec to r.
23 g
y,,,,
24
- Okay, and each visit was one day.
A >
D Q
A nd he came by him s elf ?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOctATES. STSpeOTYPE REPOfrTiteG SERvlCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROWNA
McAFEE Di r oc t, 113 1
A'
'Yes.
.)
2 Q
.. A n d, y o u..;c a n ' t..r e c all his name ?
3 A
No.
4 Q
And d,i d you go along with him that e ntir e day ?
5 A
No, as I-
- said, he stayed basically up in the 6
o f fic e s ; and.I never-saw him go.down into the plant, 7
it s e lf..
8 Q
W ere you in the o f fic e s t h 'e e n tir e day he was
~
9 in the offic e s ?
10 A
About h alf the.d a y,
a p p r ixim a t e ly.
11 O
Were you in close contact with' him ?
12 A
No.
' AIL 13 Q
Do you know as
- a. fact that he didn't leave 14 that o ffic e a n.d go down into the plant?
15 A
No, not as a fact.
As I say, I didn't see him 16 Q
With respect to Catawba Q u a li t y A s sura nce 17
- Program, are there changes or m o d i f i c t. t i o n s in the 18 A p p li c a n t '.s Qu ality A s surance Program?
19 Let me amend that que s tio n:
A re changes or 20 m o dific a tion s in A p p lic a n t 's Qu a li t y A s suranc e Program l
21
.2ecessary to provide convidence that th e plant will 22 serform s atis f actorily in s e r vic e ; and if so, what are 23
- h e y ?
24 Answer to the best of your a b ili t y.
l 25 A
W ell, the answer is o b vi ou sly ye s;.and I can gvgLYN SERGER ASSOCIATSS. STENOTTPE REPORTtNG SteveCE, CNARLOTTE, NORTH CAROUNA l
M 'c A F E E - Diroct 33 4 I
sum it up by s ayin g that the changes would be wide-(....
.y 2
s pr e a d
'a s far a's j u's t im ple m e n tin g the Quality Assur ance Program that
't h e y have on paper into th e a c tu al 3
4 work product.
5 A nd the Program on paper sounded p r e't t y 6
good and sounded lik e it would assure quality.
The 7
p r oblem - i s that it was not carried out.
8
~
Q And what do you attribute that to ?
Is it to 9
the p o li c i e s in imple m e n tin g it, or the procedures to 10 im ple m e ntin g it; 'or the in s truc tion s that are given to II implement it?
12 A
Probably all three.
emp 13 Q
A re there any s pe cific s that un d e rlie that I4 p o s iti o n, or is it just simply your o b s e r va tio n s,
bein g 15 at C atawba for the period of time th a t you were?
16 i
A B as ed on my o b s e rvation s.
I l
I Q
l'11 move away f rom this area, but I want to l
18 be sure in your responses to that qu e s tio n, there was 19 n othin g in addition underlying that response other tha a the s p e cific s we have discussed to d a y.
I 21 l
Is that correct?'
22 A
T hat's correct.
93 Q
Has it been indicated to you that you may
~
I k.
24 testify in this P ro ce e din g ?
A Yes.
sir.
I f
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STEPeOTYPS mEPONT NG SSRD4E. CNAsu.OTTE. NOsme CAmouMA
~
McAFEE Diroct 3g[
1
.Q c When you te s tif y, and ag ain, I'm ~ a s kin g you to 2
the best of your knowled g e today, do you intend to re 3
an y. d o cu m e nt s'?
ly on 4
A P o s sibly.
5 Q.
Do you.know today what those documents are?
6 A
yo, 7
O Will you discuss any matters that we haven't 8
discussed in this
~De p o s iki o n ?
9 A
I don't think so; I think you've covered the 10 ground pretty w e l l'.
11 Q
Do you have anything else to add to what you 12 have already said today?
g.,
tcw
%:=
13 A
No.
14 Q
I' m asking you to the best of your knowledge 15
- today, on M ay 19, 1983?
16 A
What?
i II Q
I think you have answered my qu e s tio n; I'm l
18 l
just cla rif ying.
W e 'h a v e spent a lot of time this 19 evening trying to understand what your concerns are.
20 A nd if there is s o m e thin g else, this is the e1 t i rn e that we get it on the table; so I ask you is ther e I
oo a n ythin g else?
~~
U A
Not at this point.
24 g
I am looking a a newspaper a r tic le I'm sure 25 you are f amili a r with (in dic a tin g).
Does it have a gvgLym genGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPoprT1NG SepviCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM camouMA l
1
M' c A F E E D i r e c't 11 e.
I date on th at ?
L et's id entify /it for th e Record.
{;lf 2
i It looks like - 10 / 2 5 / 7 9.
t 3
Q Will you read the.he ad lin e ?
4 A
-" Inspector Charges C a rele s s ne s s at Nuclear 5
Power Plant'."
6 Q
What I'm trying to do is s atis f y my s elf.
In 7
that article reference is made to five concerns th at you had; and I wa s. loo kin g quickly if those were fiv e 8
9 c o n c e r n's we have already discussed I don't plan to
~
10 pursue it.
11 If you would just confirm that 12 A
They are covered.
f,,
- % T.
13 Q
They a r e.. c o v e r e d ; okay.
- Fine, thank you.
14 I have two que s tio n s I should have asked before but 15 I di d n ' t.
Where are you pre s ently w o r kin g now?
16 general contractor, b uildi n g.
A I work for a 1
17 Q
T hi s is f ull-time ?
18 A
y,,,
19 Q
Out of cu rio sity, when you went to Garnder l
W eb, and you have a degree in.the Bible 20 21 A
B a s ic ally.
Q
- Okay, I don't mean this pe r s onally; but are 22 U
B ap tis t ?
you a 24 A>
No; why did you ask?
25 O
I want to know if you were a Fundamental EVELYN DENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPOprt1MG SENYCE. CManLOTTE. NOWTH CAROUNA
o McAFFF niri'ed 117' 1
f-B ap tis t;
(
2 A
Yl h y ? '
3
~
Q Because a Fundamental B a p ti s t places some 4
lit e r al i n t e r~ p r e t a t i o n s on meanings of various state-5 ments.
6 It was a curiosity.
7 MR.
GUILD:
C oun s el, you and M r.
McAfe e
8 should have a long o f f-th e -R e c o r d dis cu s sio n
-9 on this subject.
10 I trust it wo uld be e nt e r tainin g for both o f 11 you.
1
/
12 M R.
McCARRY:
A 1, do we have any fu rth er
, b.4 13 que s tion s ?
14 MR.
CARR:
I don't b e li e v e we have 15 a nyt hi n g.
- George, do you have any q ue s tio n s ?
16 MR.
JOHNSON:
I have several qu e s tion s; t
l l
I
- yes, sir.
I just wanted to clarify the Recor d on just a co ple points.
l 19
'O
~
CR OSS - EX AM IN A TIO N 91
~
BY MR.
JOHNSON:
O You were asked whether you contacted the NR C
23 when you a d vi s e d the NRC of any matters discussed
\\
24 r
l here t' o n i g h t.
25 I didn 't get th e answer.
What was vour answer EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SEnvlCE. CHARLOTTE, NORTM CAROUNA
M c A FEE C r o s s' 118 1
to that q u 'e s t i o n ?
2 A
N o.-
3 Q
The answer was N o.
You were also shown a
~
4 memorandum dated October 8 e a r lie r o n, and asked 5
th e qu e s tion whether you had, subsequent to your 6
appointment at Catawba, ever spoken to any NRC 7
j In s p e c t o r-or Inv e s ti g a to r ; and-I b e li e v e you s aid No.-
8 Is that true ?
9 A
I don't 'r e c all speaking to any, 10 Q
I will show you a Report o f Inquir y, dated II S ep temb er 23rd, 1982 (in di c a tin g).
It is prepared by 12 one D.
D.
Murphy; and it says in part:
.p 13 "On O ct ob e r 26,
- 1982, McAfee was contacted 14 "On August 26 3 1982 I' m sorry tele phonic ally 15 McAfee was contacted telephonically and stated.that he 16 h r. d said all he had to say at the Licensing H e a rin g, II and did not wish to discuss the m a tte r with an.NR C 18 Investigator at this tim e.
19 "McAfee said he would get with his a tt or n e y, 20 l
M r.
G uild,
and if he changed his mind he would con-I tact NRC."
22 A
I do r e c all the c o nv e r s a tio n nowi but my mai n 23 r e c olle c tio n w as the letter f rom NRC to Bob, to i
t j
\\~
24 l
C o u n s'e l, saying that they suggested he make me sub-l 25 l
mit to an Inve s ti g ato r, talk with an In v e s ti g a t o r,
i EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STSNOTYPE REPONTimeG SERvlCE. CMARLOTTS. NORTM CAmOUNA
McAFEE Cross t19 1
So I do r e c all the telephone <co versation; s.-
because, I maid I didn't 2
but it was just a short one 3
have anythin g to say a t" t h a t point, 4
.Q i
,Do you have anything to add to the reasons 5
why you did not' talk to the Inve s tigator ?
6 A
No.
7 Q
- Okay,
,o ne more m atte r:
E a rli e r on when 8
Mr.
M cGarry was a s kin g you about s y s t e.m a t i c deficie n-
.9 cies at the plant in the Quality. A s suranc e Program, 10 one of the areas in which you,were focusing h ad to do -
11 with what I b e li e v e we were using as a basis for you r
+
12 a s s e rtion that you were discouraged f rom w ritin g N CI 's M*.
t 13 and encouraged to resolve matte r s with the craft 14 supervisors.
15 Mr.
McGarry went through a number of insta a-ces in which you asserted this had been the case; a nc.
16 17 answered that you had talked with the craf t super you 18 visors; and th at the work had been corrected as per 19 your request.
20 And that you inspected it and you were sa ti s -
21 fled.
You went over several of these exam ple s.
Wh at was not asked, and the que s tion I would like to ask 22 you is were there any instances in w hi c h this procedtre 23
\\.
24 f ollowed in whic h you were encouraged to resolve was 25 th e matter with a craf t s u pe rvis o r; and you
.s p o k e to EVELYN SS AGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE mEposrTwee SEnveCE. CMamLOTTE. NOfrTM CAROUNA
,_,,n
~
b c
McAFEE C r 'o s s 120 I
to the people and the matter was addressed and you g,
.7, 2
were not s atis fi ed with the c o r r e c tiv e action taken?
3 A
No.
4 Q
There.were no such in s t a-- a s ?
5 A
yo, 6
M R.
JOHNSON:
That is all I have.
7 M R.-
McGARRY:
I have one qu e s tion; I 8
apologize.
9 10 R EDIR E C T EX A MIN A TIO N 11 BY MR.
McGARRY:
12 O
You had m e n tion e d that the QC Program did p.m v-13 not meet 10 C SR; and I forgot to f ollow up:
14 How does it not meet 10 C SR ?
15 A
I cannot quote you the paragraph and subpara 16 graph.
Just based on my understanding of 10 CSR, 17 the QA and QC Programs did not meet the require-18 ments a et out in 10 CSR.
19 S p e ci fic r e quir e m ent s would be hard for me 20 to put my fin g e r on right now without h a vin g a 10 CSR 21 Q
L et me tell y o u',
I know we are belaboring it 22 but this is s o m e thin g we had a problem with before 23 in Int e r ro gatorie s.
24 And I do apologize for this late hour, but I D
think this is impo rta nt:
This is largely set forth in EVELYN S$ROSR ASSOCIATES. STSNOTYPE R&PO8rTiteG SsPVCE. CNamLOTTE. NO8PfM CANOWNA
McAFEE
- Rodiroct, 1
10 C SR.
p
-.We r eit e r a te,
howeve r, it will.not suffice 2
to r ef e r g e n e r ally to A p p e ndix B.
3 I t. c.o n t.a i n s eight c rite ria which should be 4
cit e d.
5
,. M R.. ' GUILD:
Counsel, we have already 6
referred to it.
7 M R.
McGARRY:
'I refer to the part whic h 8
he intends to use to r.espond to the Board 9
Order.
10 What does M r.
McAfee understand is appr o-1,1 priate; and I showed him the 10 CSR, Part 12
- SOA, Appendix B (indicating).
And if he has 13 a n y thin g to add to his answer, I would ask-14 that.he.do that.
15 MR.
JOHNSON:
I would lik e the Record 16 to chow that Mr.
Guild pointed to a P r ovis io n.
17 THE WIT N ES S:
It was an A p pe ndix.
18 M R.
GUILD:
I don't have a Provision, 19 but I would be happy to fin d a couple, if you 20 would lik e,
George.
21 22 BY MR.
McGARRY:
23 O
Mr.
M c A f ee, when you made that s tat em e nt 24 that it does not meet 10 CSR, did you have any 25
$WELYN SENGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTTPg REPONTING SERVICE. CMAftLOTit. NORTM CamOUNA
-.r
.--.,-,-,---_.--r,
s e
McAFEE Ik o di r e c t 122 p ar ticula r s e c tio n of A p p e n di x. E in mind?
3
\\
A No; I' v e read it before; and based on m y' 2
3 int e rp r e ta tio n,o f it.
I had seen things which didn't coincide.
4
- Okay, now, if you want to w ait for me to go 5
ahead and re-read it, I suppose I can do that.
6 O
I understand the r epr e s entation of Counsel, 7
P alm e t t o A lli a nc e,
will be responding with s p e cific 8
instances.
9 It will be helpful if we can somehow id e n tif y 10 in that response your concerns.
That would be h elp-11 12 ful and then we won't have to belabor this matt e r.
hi R.
GUILD:
L e t's do it now.
13 MR.
McGARRY:
Fine.
14 15 THE WI T NESS :
O ka y, one in p a r ticula r, A PPendix B,
Paragraph XIII, "H a ndlin g, stor-16 l
37 age and shipping measures s hall be e s t ablis h ed 18 to control the h a n dli n g,
- storage, shipping, 19 cleaning and preservation of mat e rial s and 20 e quip m ent in ac'cordance with work and inspec 21 tion in s t r u c tio n s to prevent dama ge or deteri 22 o r a ti o n.
23 "When necessary for particular p r o du ct s,
l l
(-
24 special p r ot e c tiv e environments, such as inezt l
25 gas atmo s ph er e, s p e c i fi c moisture content EvtLyn SENGER ASSOCIATES. sTEMOTYPE REPORTIwG SERveCE. CHARLOTTE. NOMTM CANOLINA
McAFEE Rodiroct 123 1
- levels, and temperature levels, should be g,,-
C 2
s p e cifi e ll and pr o vid e d. "
~
3 4
BY MR.
McGARRY:
5 O
And that relates to the control room leaking?
6 A
- Yes, sir.
7 O
Does it relate to any other ones?
8 A
W ell, that is just one.
Do you want me to 9
go through each and every paragraph?
10 Q
I have given your Counsel an option; and I 11 don't mean to belabor you at this hour'to go through 12 I' m s u g ge s ting in Palm e tto A llia n c e 's
- response, wher e
f.
13 they will id entif y the s p e cifi c ones, you can go over 14 this tomorrow and m e n tio n to your C ouns el which onen 15 are of concern to y'o u.
16
- 1. n d it v ould be helpful if ycu would relate 17 those to the concerns we have discussed tod a y; but 18 that is fin e with us.
19 But your Counsel said,
" L et s go through it 20 tonight."
So blame him, not me.
21 MS.
PHILLIPS:
Nobody is b l a m i n ;; you.
22 THE WITNESS:
- Okay, I cite Paragraph
'I t 23 b e ginnin g with,
" A c tivitie s a f f e c tin g q u'a l i t y
(.
24 s hall be a c c o m p li s h e d under suitably c o nt r o ll ed M
conditions.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPO8FTING SERvCE. CNARLOTTE. NORTN CAROuMA
a e
M c A F EE R edirec t 194 I
{;
" C o nt r olle d c o ndition s include the use' of 2
equipment, suitable e n vir o n m e nt al a pp ro p ria t e 3
conditions for a c c o m pli s hin g the condition, 4
such as ad e qu a t e cleanness; and assurance 5
that a ll p re requis 8tes for the given a c t ivit y 6
have been s ati s fi e d. "
7 That is in riation to the scaffolds sui :-
8 able e quip m e n t.
- Okay, here I guess are 9
Paragraphs XVI and XV,
" Nonconforming It em s s hall be r e vie w e d and accepted, rejecte d, 11 repaired or reworked in accordance with docu mented procedures."
{.
13 And X VI, "M e a su re s shall be e s t ab li s h e d' 14 to assure that c on ditio n s adverse to qu ality, 15 such as f ailu r e s,
malf u n c tio n s,
d eficie ncie s,
16 d e via tion s,
d ef e ctive mate risl and e quipm en t, 17 and non c onf o rm anc e s are oromptly id e n tifie d 1
18 and corrected."
[
19 l
l l
20 l
BY MR.
McG ARR Y:
21
. is it again?
"Nonconf o rming Q
I' m sorry; what 22 l
mat e rials,
parts or c o m p o n e n t s",
what does that reinte 1
23 to?
p.
(
24 A
W e ll, it relates to n on c onf o rmin g items 25 O
I'm anvrv_
which enneerne that we have EVELYM SERQtR ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE RE*CCleG SENYICE. CMAmLOTTE. NORTH CamouMA
,o u44rrr _ n.ai,~dhe 125 1
discussed t o n i g h t' ?
{:-
2 A
How Quality Control is carried out; I'm read-3 ing you the part r elative to that last aspect.
4 "Nonc onf o rmin g item s s h all be reviewed and 5
- accepted, r e j e c't ' d,
r ep air ed, e
or reworked in accorca nce 6
with documented procedures."
7 As I have
- r. 1r e a d y allu de d to, I,
mys elf, did 8
not do this; and a lot of other inspectors didn't do 9
this.
We worked it out with the c raf t othe r wis e; so l
i 10 the QA Program is
" In the case Paragraph XVI is l
11 of s i g ni fic ant co nditio n s a d y'e r s e to q u ali t y, the me a-12 sures s hall assure that the cause of the c o n diti o n is
(
%).
13 d ete r mine d and c o r r e c tiv e a c ti o n taken to preclude 14 r e p e titio n. "
15 T hi s pr etty much r eite rat e s, it deals with 16 c o r r e c tive a c tio n for N C r's.
1 1
II Q
Do you know what that relater to ?
l 18 A
- Yes, okay; " N. e a s u r e s s h all be e s ta blis h e d to 19 assure that the cause of the condition is de te rmine d i
20 and c o r r e c tiv e action taken to p r e clu d e r e p e tition.
91 "The id e ntific ati on of the s i g nifi c t n t conditio n 2*9 I
l adverse to q u a li t y,
the cause of the c o nditio n, ~ and th e 23 c o r r e c tive a c tio n s h a ll be do cumented and reported to 24 apprcpriate levels of Mana g eme nt. "
25 Q
Is that r ela tin g to the same it em ?
Rather l
.:...........,....,. -,..... -...~.... -,,.. - - -
1 1
a s
McAfee R e direct 19A I
than writing an NCI you we r e ' told to work it out with m-(
2 the craf t in the fir s t instance?
3 A
C o r r e c t, okay.
4 Q
ls that it?
5 A
That is it; thank you.
6 M R.
Mc G A RR Y :
That is it.
7 FURTHER THE DE PONENT SAITH NOT.
8 9
I, W i.li a m Ronald M 'c A f e e,
hereby c e rtif y that 10 I have read and understand the f o r e g oin g tr ans e ript 11 and b eli e v e it to be a
't r u e,
accurate and c om ple t e
~
12 tr an s c ript of my t e s t i rn o n y.
13 11 William Ronald IvicAfee 15 16 17 18 18 This Deposition was signed in my presence by 90 Willi a m R onald Mc Af ee on the day of 21 gg g3, 22 23 Notary Public
(
g 25 9
EVELTN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTipe SepveCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAmOLsNA
127 1
b-)
CERTIFIC A TE 2
3 STATE OF NORTH C AROLIN A 4
COUNTY OF MECKLENBURG 5
1, L.y n n B.
- Gilliam, do hereby c e rtif y 6
that the proceedings were by me reduced to m a c hin e 7
shorthand in the presence of the witn e s s, af t e rwa rd s 8
transcribed upon a typ ewrite r Ga d e r-m y dir e c tio n; 9
and that the foregoing is a true and correct trans-10 cript of the proceedings.
11 I further c e rtify that t h e's e proceedings 12 were taken at the time and place in the foregoing S
13 c ap tio n s p e cified.
14 I further c e r tif y that I am not a r e la tiv e,
15 counsel or attorney for ei the r party or o th e rwi s e I
16 interested in the o u t c o rc. e :f this a cif on.
l 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 18 set my hand at Charlotte, No rth C a rolina, on this the 19 day of May, 1963.
20 21 i
l 22 l
LYNN B.
GILLIAM 23 Court Reporter Notary Public
(
24 l
25 My Commission expires May 12, 1988.
. " ovu.......oci.re...n om. wom~a..-c.. c *a'om. acara c^aou~a r
. - -