ML20078L793

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Transcript of Ledford Deposition in Charlotte,Nc Re Contention 6
ML20078L793
Person / Time
Site: Catawba  Duke Energy icon.png
Issue date: 07/14/1983
From: Ledford S
DUKE POWER CO.
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FOIA-83-434 NUDOCS 8310240068
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UNITED STATES OF K4 ERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE T11E ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD Docket Nos. 50-413 and In the Matter of 50-414 DUKE POWER COMPANY, ET AL (Cruwba Nuclear Station Units 1 and 2)  :

DEPOSITION OF:

Stanley Ledford July 14, 1983 ___

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M Evelyn Berger Associates 8310240068 830810 PDR FOIA STENOMPE REPORTING SERVICE AHLERS83-434 PDR P. O. BOX 19444 CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLIN A 28219

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L A wY E R'S NOTES Page Un'

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I The deposition of Stanley Ledford was taken on the 14th 2

day of July 1933 at the legal officas of Duka Pcwer Company, 3 500 South Church Street in Charlotte, North Carolina.

4 APPEARANCES:

5 For D'.:ke Power Company - Ronald L. Gibson, Esq.

951 South Indapandence Boulsvard 6 Charlotte, North Carolina 7 For Palmetto Alliance - Robert Guild, Esq.

2135% Devine Street 8 Columbia, South Carolina 29205 9 (The deposition ccmmenced at 4:00 p.m.)

10 MR. GIDSON: This is Mr. Stanley Ledford, available for 11 dsposition. I assume we ara proceeding under the same set of 12 stipulations, and present for Duke Power ars Mr. Henry and Mr.

13 3o11, 14 STANLEY LEDFORD, 15 having been first duly sworn, was avamined and deposed as 16 follows:

17 SY MR. GUILD:

18 Q Mr. Ledford, my name is Bob Guild, and I am counsel for j 19 Palmetto Alliance, an intervanor in the Catawba operating 20 license case. My clients, Palmetto Alliance, have raised 21 questions about quality assurance at the Catawba Nuclear 22 Station. You are generally aware of that?

23 A I have heard some of them.

24 Q Ucw about stating your full nams and your present position 25 uith Duke Power company for the record please.

EVELYN EERGER ASSOCIATE S. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERveCE. CHARLOTTE. MORTM CAROUNA

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l A Okay, I am Stanley Ledford, and I am supervisor at Catauba 2 Nuclear over part of the welding inspectors.

3 And is your title supervising tschnician?

Q 4 A yes, 5

Q All right. Mr. Ledford, I want to show you a copy of 6 Palmetto Alliance's Contention 6, and that is the quality 7 assurance contention that we filed in this case. That is 8 si= ply a quotation of it in a December 31st,1982, Duke Power 9 rssponse to some questions we served. If you would take a few to moments and read to yourself Contention 6. It's quoted here 11 beginning down towards the bottom of page 3. It's that single-12 page quote, and it goes on down here to page 4.

13 A okay.

14 (The watness read the document requested.)

15 Q All right, sir, have you had a chance to look at that?

16 A Uh-huh.

17 0 IIave you seen that before?

18 A No, I can' t stats anywhere that I did, not in the area 1

19 that I am working.

2c Q All right, sir. My question is, IIave you seen that 21 contention before? Ifave you ever read that before?

22 A No, I have not read that. I am talking about the work, l

l 23 complied with what is in it.

24 0 I want to ask you a little bit about that. First, Mr.

23 Ledford, if you will tell ms the positions you have hsid with EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERveCE. CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROUNA

I Duke Power, when you came with the company and the various o

jobs you have had, give me the datas you had them, 1* you

'3 can recall please. ,

4 A Okay. I started out in July 21st, 1971, at Oconaa as 5 I worked as a welder until the early part of a top welder.

6

'76, and then I was transferred to Cherokee Nuclear Weld, I welded there a short tima, and then latter part of 1977 I 8 went to QA, a welding inspector. I worked as a welding 9 inspector at Cherokee Nuclear until the latter part of '79, 10 and then I set up supervisors over welding, MT, PT, inapsction.

11 And then I was transferred to Catawba Nuclear March 16th,1981, 12 over some of the welding in3pectors. And now it's Welding 13 and NDE.

t i

14 Q When did you take on the NDE inspectors, Mr. Ledford?

l 15 A That happened just recently, this year, at Cherokee.

l 16 That's MT and PT.

17 Q When you cama to Catawba in March of '31, they put you 18 over welding inspectors, is that right?

19 A s;es ,

20 Q Wora you also over MT and PT at that time?

21 A No.

22 Q When did you take them on, sir?

l 23 A They started cross-certification the latter part of 24 last year.

! 25 Q Cf '827 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA

-4 1

A Yes, and it got into swing early this year, over the nine 2 people that I am supervising now. They are cross-certified 3 in welding, magnetic particle and liquid penetrant examination.

4 Q All right, sir. Had you done welding or welding inspec-5 tion work before you came to work for Duke Power Company, Mr.

6 Ledford?

7 A I had welded about three, three and a half years before I 8 come with Duke.

9 0 Where did you do that, sir?

10 A With Clement and Blythe Construction. They did their 11 ground work for Duke Power at Ccones and Jacassee Dam.

12 Q And they were a contractor for Duke Power Company?

13 A Right.

14 Q Working at Oconee and Jacassee?

15 A Right.

16 Q And you did welding with tham?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Okay now, about three years, you say?

19 A Thrae, three and a half, somewhere in that neighborhood.

20 Q All right. And when you did work as a welder at Oconee, 21 were you certified for welding at doing nuclear code work?

22 A Yes, that's all I did, X-ray work.

23 0 okay, And what kind of certifications did you hold when 24 you were at Oconee?

25 A I held every -- all of the certifications they had at that EVELYN SERGER ASSOctATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CNARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA

I ti:se, which was 1971 through '76, all of them except certifica-2 tions on aluminum welding.

3 All right, sir.

Q 4 A Automatic flux core. I had all of the L200 and L300 5 qualifications.

6 Q Okay, but not flux core?

7 A Mo.

8 Q Okay. Now, who is on your crew now, Mr. Ledford, welding 9 inspectors?

10 A I have nine now.

11 Q If it would help you, we have a list of all of them. Can 12 you renember them by name? If you can, fine.

13 A I think I can remember them. I will trf.

14 Q Okay.

15 A Richard Childress, Slim Driscoll, John Peeler, Ronald 16 Kirkland, Tommy Dumgarner, Mickey Stanridge, Tom Costello, 17 Gary Moss.

18 O M-c-s-s?

19 A Uh-huh.

20 Q Okay.

21 A How many is that?

22 Q Eight. I am missing one. You have nine.

23 A Okay, Larry Trout.

24 Q Of the welding inspectors that you supervise, Mr. Ledford, 25 are you generally familiar with their qualifications and their EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CNARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA

I background?

2 3 y..,

3 Okay.

Q 4 A Fairly.

5 Q Okay. I want to understand which of them have had working 6 experience as welders and which of them have been certified 7 af ter doing work as NDE inspectors beforehand. Are some of 8 your inspectors hadn't worked as welders before and instead 9 came over from NDE?

10 A Yes, I have got one, Gary Moss.

11 Q Okay.

12 A He has never been certified as a welder.

13 Q Okay. Did he work as an NDE inspector?

14 A He has before.

i 15 Q All right. Did he come from Cherokee, work at Cherokee?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Any others, sir?

18 A The rest of them has been certified in welding before 19 with Duke.

20 Q Okay. Now, I understand that you also supervised some 21 NDE inspection?

l

' ** A Yes.

I 23 O With these same men?

l 24 A Yes.

25 Q Okay. And they are doing NDE after being cross-certified EVELYN SERGE R ASSOCIATES. STENCTYPE REPORTING SERYpCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA

I in NDE inspecticn, is that right?

2 A Just when they call them to check a weld for final virsual, 3 if it needs MD, TP, they go ahead and do that too.

4 Okay now, I want to understand then which of the welding Q

5 inspectors who work for you have previously worked as NDE 6 inspectors but not as Visual inspectors. Are there any of 7 them that formerly worked exclusively as NDE inspectors?

8 A Yes, two of them, Tom Costello and Gary Moss.

9 0 Okay. Mr. Costello also used to be a welder, is that 10 right? He had been certified as a welder before?

11 A No, Tom, he has not been certified with Duke as a walder.

12 Q Okay.

13 A But he has welded.

14 0 Dut he has welded, done nuclear welding some place else?

t 15 A I understand he has.

16 Q Okay. -

17 A Bub he is not with Duke.

18 Q Fine. Any of these other gentlemen worked as NDE inspec-19 tors before they came on as welding inspectors?

20 A No, the rest of them was either just welding inspectors 21 or welding and HDE combined. Like the Cherokee, it was a 22 combination.

l t 23 Q Okay.

l 24 A And part of them came from down there.

l 25 Q Okay. Which of these men came over from Cherokee besides l

evetra seasia associares. sr ~orres necomme saavice. c 4=torre woam caaou=*

I you already told me Mr. Moss did.

2 A Larry Trout.

3 Q Okay.

4 A Mickey Stanridge, and I believe that's the only ones that 5 came from Cherokse.

6 Q Okay. Now, Mr. Ledford, you were at Duke and at Catawba 7 as a welder inspector supervisor in late '81, early '02, the 8 time period when a number of welding inspectors expressed a 9 number of concerns about their work, concerns that Duke to characterized as technical concerns. Do you know what I am 11 refsrring to?

12 A I think so.

13 0 okay. You were there that period of time?

14 A YSs.

15 Q A number of inspectors filed written statements reflecting 16 those concerns. Are you aware of that?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Okay. Do you underst.and that inspectors on your team 19 filed concerns, expressed concerns either in writing or orally?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Okay. Now, did all of these inspectors work under you 22 going back to that period of time?

23 A No.

24 Q Okay.

25 A Gary Moss, he didn't work for me at that time. Larry EwELYN SERGER ASSOCIA*ES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERwsCE. CHARLOTTE. NORfM CAROUNA

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1 Trout didn' t. Slim Driscoll didn't.

1 2 Q Where did Iir. Driscoll come from?

3 A He came from McGuire.

4 Q Ckay. ,

5 A And Ronald Kirkland, he transferred from another crew at G Catawba.

7 Q And whose crew did Mr. Kirkland used to work on?

8 A Dill Deaton. And John Peeler, he worked for Bill Deaton 9 and transferred over to my crew afher I was.

10 Q How about Tommy Bumgarner?

11 A He was working for me during that period of time.

12 Q Okay. And Rick Childress?

13 A He was working with me at that time.

14 Q  !;cv, at that time where was the rest of your crew from?

4 15 I am just trying to add people up and look at some numbers 16 here. I only trace two or three of them that went back that 17 far.

18 A We switched around so many times since then. At this time 19 part of my people was in Bob Harris's crew at this time.

20 Q Okay. Was Mr. Harris there then? Did he work on the 21 job?

22 A No, ha came from McGuire, after that happened.

2a Q And did he take a number of your people from your crew?

24 A Uh-huh. They split up my area and gave me part of it.

25 Q okay. When did he come over from McGuire, approximately, EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROL u

1 if you can remember?

2 A Latter part, laat of '82.

3 Q Can you remember who went over to Mr. Harris's crew from 4 yours?

5 A Gene McDow, Nancy Spencer.

6 Q All right.

7 A Larry Jackson.

8 Q Okay.

9 A Bill Burr.

10 Q Okay. Those four?

11 A Uh-huh.

12 Q All right, sir.

13 A One more, Blane Sutton.

14 Q S-u- t- t-o-n?

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q All right. I want your opinion, Mr. Ledford, about the 17 concstns that were expressed by the people on your crew.

18 A Could you be a little more specific on that, on what type 19 of concern?

20 0 Okay, I will try. I understand, first, that welding 21 inspectors expressed concerns about the lack of support, 22 getting lack of support from their management. Let's say they 23 were writing up an NCI, and the UCI was going up, that their 24 management would side with construction over their inspectors.

25 Did you hear concerns of that sort?

EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SEfMCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA

1 3 yes, 2

Q Okay. And what's your opinion about those concerns?

3 A Well, on the ones that I am familiar with, instead of 4 writing NCI, it was evaluated by our supervision, and they 5 seen other ways to handle it and correct it, and they took 6 tha t way.

7 0 cid you agree with that?

8 A Well, in the cases I know about, I do because there was 9 no harm to the work. Work was done correct, and there is no 10 way that it could be harmful to the operation nor shut down a 11 plant.

12 Q All right. Did you work under Charles Baldwin?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Did you have occasion to carry an NCI to Mr. Baldwin and 15 have Mr. Baldwin decide that it was not a valid NCI?

10 A A coupla of cases, all I can remember right off.

17 Q Can you remember an example of a welding inspector that 18 originated an NCI of that sort that Mr. Baldwin voided?

19 A Uell, the concern that I am familiar with right now was 20 Bill Surr.

21 0 Ckay. What happened in that case, if you can recall?

22 A He issued the NCI on a hanger on a material for the 23 thickness of it in accordance with the L50 or a preheat.

24 Q Ckay.

25 A And they investigated it and determined that it didn't EVELYN SENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CamouMA

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1 need an NCI on it.

2 O Okay. You and Mr. Burr wrote up the Q-1A, right?

3 A Uh-huh.

4 Q And did you review that?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. Did you sign the Q-1A?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Okay. Was your practice signing along with your inspector?

9 A I initialed them with the inspector, showing that I have 10 reviewed it and know the condition of it.

11 Q Uere is a 0-1A from 1981. This is not any one in particular.

12 It's one I have been using as an example. This was an exhibit 13 to Mr. Shropshire's deposition, and this one happens to be --

14 it's 12213. Okay, now, in the box on hers where it says 15 originator, you would initial it in that box?

16 A I would initial right above the employee's signature, 17 where it says John Brown, I believe.

18 Q Right above the inspector's name?

19 A Yes.

20 Q What initials would you put thera?

21 A S.W.L.

22 Q Okay. Jetd would your inspector carry this to Mr. Baldwin 23 then?

24 A Yes.

25 0 Would you go with him?

EVELYN SERGER ASSOC!ATES STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE CHARLOME. NORTH CAROUNA

.p 1

A No, I would let him take it himself, or if I was going 2 at that time, I would take it.

3 Q Okay. The inspector takes it to Mr. Baldwin, and Mr.

4 Daldwin decides that it isn't a valid NCI, you hear about it, 5 he would call you up?

6 A Yes, he would call me back and explain to me what him 7 and QA had determined on the NCI, why it was not valid. I 8 Q Okay. And what I want to understand than is, in the 9 instance with Mr. Burr, at what point was it determined not to to be a valid NCI? With Mr. Baldwin?

11 A No, it usually involved his boss too.

12 Q Okay. Mr. Davison?

13 A Sometimes Davison, sometimes some others, the tachnicians 14 in QA.

15 Q Mr. Shropshirs?

16 A Shropshire, Rick Rouse, someone of that nature.

17 Q But how would you hear about it in that extent? What 18 would happen then?

19 A If the NCI did not get a serial number on it, then they 20 would call me back and let me know why.

21 Q Who would call you back?

22 A My supervisor, Charles Baldwin in that case.

23 Q Okay. Charles would call you and say -- what did he 24 tell you in the case of Bill Durr, for example, with the hanger?

25 A Ile would ts11 me that he and -- if anybody else was EVELYN SERG2R ALSOCIATES STENOTYPE REPOfmMG SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA

I involved, who had researched procedures, code and what not, 2 and could not find where it would be violating anything, the 3 NCI's was not through, and it was handled another way, maybe 4 cut the fitup out and start all over.

5 Q What happened in the case of this hanger that Mr. Burr 6 wrote up?

7 A Well, that particular one, later it was cut completely 8 out.

s Q What happened at the time that the NCI was carried up to 10 Mr. Baldwin?

11 A That particular one, Bill, he f alt like it was an interpre- -

12 tation problem on a procedure, that he led you to believe it 13 should have been preheated or what not before welding.

14 Q Did you agree with him?

15 A Well, you could go either way and wouldn't be wrong.

16 Q So did you agree with him?

17 A 3o any time it's not anything that it strictly violatas l

18 a procedure, just interpretation problem, and is not harmful 19 to the plant, if g supervisor tells me to go ahead and explains 20 to me why, and I understand why, being investigating the 21 situation, then I'll talk it over with my inspector, and if ha 22 agrees enough to go ahead I am to work, that's the way I am to 23 go. If he don't agree, then we dog off and write a recourse 24 or whatever it takes.

25 Q Okay. What happened in the case of Mr. Burr?

EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTvPS REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA

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1 A IIe went out and accepted the work.

2 Okay. But he brought the matter to the attention of the Q

3 task force when they were doing the investigation?

4 A I am not sure on that because I didn't read any of the 5 concerns. The concerns was written up.

6 Q Right.

7 A pd put in an envelope, and I carried them to our higher 8 supervision, and I didn' t read them. I don't know what all 9 concerns was turned in.

10 0 Okay. How do you know then that this particular hanger 11 was cut out or that the work was cut out and reworked?

12 A Every situation that I have that my people has got any 13 questions on or whatever, I keep up with it, and if we feel 14 lika it needs to go by R-2 or NCI or whatever way we need to 15 do it, if we go to R-2 instead of the NCI, then we don't sign to any action off until it meets our satisfaction.

17 Q Okay. What about this particular case with Mr. Burr and 18 the hanger? How do you know that they cut that work out?

19 A I talked to Bill about a week later and they had wrote an 20 R-2 on it, and it is a fitup, and they had to cut the weld 21 tacks out.

22 Q When did this happen with Mr. Burr in the hanger?

23 A That was the latter part of '81, 24 Q Okay. At that time you didn't use the R-2's to write up 25 deficiencies in welding, did you?

j EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CARGUNA

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1 A About everything was handled with NCI at this time.

2 Q How come in this case you used an R-27 3 A Well, in cases where they had investigated it and decided 4 they didn't need to have an UCI written on it, and an inspector 5 disagreed with it, then we would go that way, 6 Q Okay. And this is one of those cases where Mr. Burr 7 disagreed with Mr. Baldwin or whoever?

8 A s Uh-huh.

9 Q Mr. Ledford, under current procedure, the R-2A is used 10 more frequently instead of an NCI to write up deficiencias 11 in welding, isn't that right?

12 A Yes, more so now it is.

13 Q Under the new procedure?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. But before that new procedure, where you would 16 use an R-2 in a situation that you just described, how often 17 in your opinion were the R-2's used that way, how many times?

18 A They were very seldom. Maybe out of every 50 or 75 l

19 NCI's, there might be 1 R-2 wrote.

l 20 Q Okay. Now, in your experience, Mr. Ledford, when, as 21 you describe, the higher supervision saw other ways to correct 22 the work, instead of an NCI, and therefore avoided the NCI, 23 was there any other documentation made of the deficiency that 24 the inspector identified?

25 A I don't think so other than the inspector keeping a note 4

EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NOsrTM CAROUNA

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I of anything that he needed, he could keep a note of it himself.

2 Q Other than the inspector's own notes, that would be it?

3 A Uh-huh.

4 Q Okay. Now, a number of inspectors expressed concerns 5 that supervision instructed them to sign off on work that 6 they didn't agree with. Did you understand that there were 7 concerns of that sort?

8 A I have heard other people mention that, not other inspec-9 tors but other craf tmen.

10 Q Do you know of any concerns of that sort among your people?

11 A No.

12 0 Okay. Do you know, of your inspectors,who were instructed 13 Dy Mr. Baldwin or Mr. Davison and others to sign off on process 14 control where they didn' t accept the work?

15 A No.

16 Q liow about a situation whsre an inspector was instructed 17 to check off on the acceptance box on an M-4A where he couldn' t 18 see the weld that was supposed to be approved?

19 A No.

20 Q You understand a number of inspectors expressed concerns 21 about being harassed by a craf t, having craf t or craf t super-22 vision interfere with them in the performance of their work?

23 A I have heard of that.

24 Q okay. Are you aware of a.'.y of your inspectors expressing 25 that concern?

avnym senaan associares. sinnorves meronvinc. senvice. cwantorra. monrw camouma

I A I had one employee that we went through that deal with.

2 Who was that?

Q 3 A Larry Jackson.

4 What happened with Mr. Jackson?

Q 5 A He was harassed by a craft foreman.

6 What happened?

Q 7 A It was investigated by our employee relations, QA employee 8 relations, instruction employee relations, and the craft foreman 9 was punished in some way by construction supervision.

10 0 What were the circumstances? Tell me what happened, as 11 best you recall, or as best you know.

12 A Well, Larry Jackson, he was making an inspection at the 13 reactor building, and he noticed they was grinding on pipe 14 with their grinding disks that he thought weren' t properly 15 color coded for scaialess pipe. So he went down and investigated 16 it, and him and the craft foreman got into an argument over it.

i 17 The craf t foreman, he kind of blessed him out, got ill with 18 him, and then Larry and the craf t foreman both came into the 19 office. Me and my superviLor was in the office when they

( 20 cama in and discussed it with us, and then it was handled from 21 there up by tech construction and QA in employee relations.

22 Q By your supervisor, you mean Mr. Baldwin?

23 A Charles Baldwin and Larry Davison.

24 0 All right. What's your opinion about not just this 25 particular instance but the concern about harassment by craf t EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENCTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHAM.QTTE. NORTH CAROUNA

I and craf t supervision of inspectors trying to do their job, 2

Mr. Ledford?

3 A I don' t know of many cases of it.

4 What hava you done about it when it has been brought to Q

5 your attention, if anything?

6 A My employees bring it to me. I go to the person that they 7 had the problem with, discuss it with them. I get both's 8 input, my person, or employee, and the other employee. Then 9 I go to the employee's supervisor. It's always been handled 10 there, stopped at that point, without going through employee 11 relations.

12 lQ Ars you aware of any action that has been taken generally 13 to correct the problem of harassment by craft or craft super-14 vision of welding inspectors?

15 A I can't think of any case right off.

J 16 Q Mr. Ledford, what is your opinion of Mr. Jackson's work?

17 A Could you be more specific on that?

18 Q Sure. You are his s.1pervisor and part of your responsi-19 bility is evaluating his work, is it not, as an inspector?

20 A Yes.

, 21 Q In that context, what's your opinion of his work? Is it 22 goed, bad, superior? Is it competent?

23 A His work was good quality.

24 0 Okay. Do you have any criticism of Mr. Jackson's work?

25 A No.

EVELYM EERGER ASSOctATES. STENO 1YPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROUNA

1 Q Where are you working now? Where is your crew working now, 2

Mr. Ledford?

3 A Okay, I have got the area of ground level in the auxiliary 4

building in unit 1 and 2, which is 594 elevation.

5 All right, sir.

Q 6 Unit 1 and 2 spent fuel; interior and exterior dog house, Q

7 unit 1 and 2; unit 1 and 2 turbine building; and outside hanger 8 fab table work.

9 What shift are you working, Mr. Ledford?

Q 10 A First shif t.

11 Uave you ever worked other than first shif t since you Q

12 had been a supervisor?

13 A My employees has.

14 Q Okay.

15 A I have not.

16 Q What happens when your employees work other than first ,

17 shift?

18 A I sign somebody -- usually somebody -- lead man position, 19 to work.

20 Q one of your more experienced welding inspectors?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Okay. And who among your welding inspectors that are 23 lead men?

24 A Well, Richard Childress is my lead man.

25 0 Is your lead man, okay.

EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE NORTM CARCUNA

1 A Uh-huh. I have Mickey Stanridge, Ronald Kirkland and at 2

that time Bill Burr.

3 Q Okay. And one of those inen you would have worked second 4

shif t to supervise the other inspectors?

5 A Not all of the time, just whenever we knew there was some 6 kind of critical work CCming up that Could create problems.

7 Q Okay. IIave any of your people expressed any of these 8 concerns to you recently, Mr. Ledford?

9 A No.

10 Did they express these concerns to you at the time when Q

11 they filed t'tese written concerns?

12 A Before they was filed as written concerns but not at the 13 time that they was written up. During that period all inspectora 14 was writing concerns.

15 Q Okay. What is your opinion, Mr. Ledford, on the question 16 of the qualification of welding inspectors who worked before 17 as welding craft as compared 'a welding inspec*wrs who have 18 not, who have been trained and certified but who don't have 19 craft experience?

20 A In some cases that inspector catches on lots faster than 21 he would if he hadn' t had velding experiencs background.

22 Q Which one catches on faster, I am sorry?

23 A You have some that will just pick up and go right along 24 with it that has never had welding experience.

25 0 You think it's better not to have welding experience to EVELYN SERGER ASSX1ATES, STENOTYPC S.EPORTING EERWCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA

. - - - - - - - - . - - -- - - -,.-- . . . _ , ,~ , . . - - - - - - - . .

I be an inspector, is that what your opinion is?

2 A No, not rsally. Welding experience definitely helps.

3 Q How does it help?

4 A Knowing -- you know better what kind of configuration, 5

geometry and everything of the weld, profile, putting what 6

kind of conditions that can be made on it, but the guys that 7

has never welded is teached that before they go out and inspect 8

so I can't see where it hurts. They are all trained to the 9

same procedures.

10 Q Do you agree that welding inspectors have to exercise 11 judgment in inspecting welds?

12 A Explain that.

13 Do welding inspectors use their judgment when they inspect Q

14 a weld?

15 A So:na cases they may have to.

16 Q Okay. Where a welding inspector has to use his judgment, 17 do you believe a welding inspector who has worked as a welder 18 is more capable of exercising this judgment than a welding 19 inspector who has just been trained in the procedures?

20 A Most times I don't have to go down and make the decision 21 for him. I tell my people not accept anything if they are not 22 definitely sure of it, to call me.

23 Q So where there is any question, even if they don't have 24 welding experience, they are supposed to call you, and you 25 would look at it?

EVELYN SENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPOprTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE.i'OfnN CAROUNA f

I A I come down and look at it with them.

2 Q Ckay. Have you ever been told by supervision that your 3 people are writing too many NCI's?

4 A No, not that we was writing too many.

5 0 Have you ever been told to write fewer NCI's?

6 A No, it's been stated that look at other ways to handle 7 it but get the same work, type of work if there is a way to 8 handle it, such as R-2, CP-22, CP-49, whatever the work fell 9 under.

10 Q Why do you understand that it would be better to handle 11 it some other way than by writing an NCI?

12 A Well, if it's violating the work, it needs to be NCI.

13 0 But in the situation where you are being told to do it 14 come other way, why would it be preferable to do it some other 15 way than to write an NCI?

16 A Lots cheaper, quicker resolution, everything.

17 0 Okay. Why is it cheaper and quicker not as an NCI?

18 A Well, all NCI's goes through Charlotte office.

19 Q Okay. All of the NCI's have to come downtown?

20 A Uh-huh.

21 Q Do you understand that all of the NCI's go to the NRC?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q How about the R 2's? Do they go to NRC?

24 A I understand they get them too.

25 Q They always get them?

EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA

l .

1 A That's my understanding.

2 0 Okay. They always have?

3 A I can't answer that.

4 MR. GUILD: Okay, Mr. Ledford, that's all I have. Thank 5 you very much.

6 3Y MR. GIB3ON:

7 Q Mr. Ledford, are you aware of anything that would cause 8 you to question whether the Catawba Nuclear Station was safely 9 built?

10 A No, not anything.

11 MR. GIBSON: Anything further, Mr. Guild?

12 MR. GUILD: Nothing from me.

13 Ma. GDSON: Defors we break, I want to give you what I 14 understand to be the documents relating to welding frem the 15 files of the NCI review team. As I indicated to you earlier, is Mr. Don Marco, a member of that review team, will be available 17 for questions concerning these documents tomorrow. I assume, is because of the schedule, we will hold him late in the afternoon ,

19 baGed on time availability. As I also indicated, Mr. Marco is 20 checking to be sure any return correspondence relating to any 21 corrective actions based on deficiencies or problems identified 22 by the NCI evaluation team, he is checking to be sure those are 23 also made available as they relate to welding, and if ha 25 idsntifies any other documents during the course of tomorrow, 25 or at any other time, we will make those available to you.

EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUhA

1 MR. GUILD: Do you know what Mr. Marco's title is?

2 MR. IIENRY: Senior QA specia3ist.

3 (The deposition was adjourned at 4:48 p.m.)

4 * * *

  • 5 6 I, Stanley Ledford, hereby certify that I have read and 7 understand the foregoing transcript and believe it to be a 8 true, accurate and complete transcript of my testimony.

9 Stanley Ledford to 11 This deposition was signed in my presence by Stanley 12 Ledford on the day of 1983.

13 Notary Public 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCsATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERV 8CE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA f

1 CERTIFICATE 2

I, Ann P. IIarris, court reporter and notary public, do 3 hereby certify that the foregoing 25 pages are a true, accurate 4 and complete transcript of the proceedings during the deposition 5 of Stanley Ledford, that Mr. Ledford was duly sworn prior to 6 the taking of his deposition, and that the parties were 7 present as stated.

8 I also certify that I am not of counsel for nor in the 9 employment of any of the parties, and that I am not interested 10 either directly or indirectly, in the outcome of the proceeding:s.

11 This 22nd day of July 1983.

12 h% [ ,ho[o Ann P. Ifarris - Notary Public 13 State of North Carolina County of Mecklenburg 14 15 My commission expires:

June 6, 1986 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EVEL*N EERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. *eORTM CAROUNA

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