ML20116M993
| ML20116M993 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 03/25/1985 |
| From: | Deutsch H Neely Research Reactor, ATLANTA, GA, GEORGIA POWER CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#285-854 OL, NUDOCS 8505060441 | |
| Download: ML20116M993 (87) | |
Text
b UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ~
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICEN NG BOARD i n i 00CHETED IN THE MATTER'0F:
. USNRC GEORGIA POWER COMPANY, DOCKET NOS. 50 4 et al, (Vogtle Electric 50- 56 6 20 :45 -
Generating P,lant Units 1 and 2) 0FFICE OF SECREM av 00CKETING & SERV.':1.
BRANCH l
J v, .
Deposition of HOWARD DEUTSCH, taken oh
- behalf of the. Applicants, _ pursuant to Notice, before Mary J. Brewster, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, at 1400 Candler Building, Atlanta, Georgia, on the 25th day of March, 1985, commencing at the hour of 11
- 15 a.m.
4 STUART S. H USEBY & ASSOCIATES,lNC.
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND COURT REPORTERS Suite 400 One Park Place P. O. Box 719 1900 Emery Street, N.W. s Gainesville, Georgio 30503
' Atlanto, Georgio 30318 -
(4041 536 7028 (404) 351 0300
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8505060441 850325 PDR ADOCK 05000424 T PDR i
_ _ , . , . . . ,_. . . - - . - ~- .- .
em c
- 2
'V _
APPCAnAI?CCO O~' COUIISEL :
1 2 On behalf of the Applicant: UUGF .. D r.VCl? 20' ? , Ecq.
JldTS C. JOIUCR, 3cg.
3 On behalf cd the Doponent: G T.nY PL 71 C", Osc.
4 On behalf of the Intervenor 5 CPC: LAURIE FoiLER, 00g.
6 Also precent: Tim Johncon Uillard Dcuerd 7 - --
0 i ' F. . DAVCEFOnT: This ic the 6crocition of i
9 Houard Douctch, tal;c n purcuant to Fotice, uith the tiac 10 and place acrced upon between the partice. Thic 11 deposition is beino tal;c n in accordancc with the reclear 12 Ec[Ulctory Conniccion'c rulec of practice for dcccctic (nv).
13 licencine p r o c c e C. i n g c .
14 !* r . Pl a c!: , cince your name doec not appcar en 15 the notice, identify yourcelf anC indicate uno you 16 rcprccent today.
17 IIn. FL ACE : Yec.- I'm the attcenc/ for 18 Iir . Houard Deutsch, the deponent. 2.nd uhy don't uo alco 19 ctate who clac it in the roca, that in to cay. Laurie 20 ' Foules. in here on behalf of LCt.P, Tim Johncon ic here on
- 'l behalf of Campaign for Prosperouc Georgia. Jim Joinct 22 onC yourcelf anC I;r. --
23 IT. DT.V CP POP T : Uillarf Doucr, uho ic 24 here ac a reprocentative of the f.ppl i c e n t . ro you i O
- r i
!U ?F rcrrecent either of the Intervenora in thic action, Fr.
I l.
l l
l l
l -3 3
{v} -
1 Flack?
2 I:n. PL ACE : I do not.
3 I:R . DAVOIPORT: Could you cucar in the 4 uitnecc, pleace.
5 HOUARD UARK DEUTSCl!,
6 having been firct duly cuorn, une c::anined and 7 tectified ac follous:
O C-'OS S- P:: A::I CAT IO" 9 DY !!R. DAVDPPORT:
10 0. Do you uich to rccerve the right to revieu -
11 and cign your deposition, Dr. Deutsch?
(^) v 12 IT. PLACE: Uo'll uaive hic right to do 13 30.
14 0. (ry I!r. Davenport) Uould you ctato your full 15 name for the record, ploace.
16 A. Couard IIark Deutsch.
17 0. Uculd you spell your last name for the court 10 rcrorter?
19 A. D-D-U-T-S-C-U.
20' O. Uhat ic your current addrecc?
21 A. 765 "yrtle Uttcct, Portheart, Atlanta, 22 Georgia 30300..
23 0. Ic that a rccidential cddrecc?
24 A. Yec.
m U 25 ^
. Uhat ic your bucineco c6erecc?
E
r^s 4 ii-Y-) _
1 A. School of Chemistry, Georgia Inctitute of 2 Technology, Atlanta, Georgia 30332.
3 0 !! ave you ever had your deposition caken 4 before, Dr. Deutsch?
5 A. no.
6 0 Have you talked to your attorney or to the 7 attorney for the Intervenors about Gepocitionc in 8 genera)?
9 A. Yec.
10 0 You know what a deposition ic?
11 A. Yes.
() 12 13
- 0. You knou that you're rccponding to qucctiont under oath and that your recponccc cre being transcribed 14 by the court reporter juct ca if you vere tcotifying 15 before the Atomic Safety and Licencing Board?
16 A. Yes.
17 0. Let me e:: plain uhy I'm here. I'm bacically 10 going to ach you come quectionc about your background 19 and about your tectimony that you intend to give on 20i behalf of the Intervenorn in this proceeding, and I'm 21 not trying to trich or confunc you. If I ach you a 22 quection that you don't underctand, pleccc atop me and.
23 I'll try to rectate the question.
2/ l'a v c you done anything to prepare for thic n
/ \
k)m ?F derocition?
t 1
l
n
?
J 5
(~'N t !
v i
1 A. Ed, I haven't.
2 0. So you have not loo!;cd at any documentc?
3 A. Co. I have been ou't of town the lact several
! 4 veckc before last ucch and have not'donc anything to 5 prepare for.thic.
i 6 0 Arc you carried?
7 MR. PLACE: I object to that gucction and C all qunctione relating to the deponent's personal life 9 on the grounds that they are irrelevant to thic 10 proceeding. He have no objections to any quections i
11 about hic profoccional accociations, houever.
l f~ 12 Further, I inctruct the uitnccc not to ancwor
! v) 13 any quection about hic rerconal lifc.
14 M2. DAVEMPORT: cror the purpoces of thin 15 depocition, cay uc tahc your inctruction to hin not to 16 ancuer as a refucal to ancuer?;
i 17 Un. PLLCr: Arc you going to follou cy 10 inctructions?
10 Tl! C I?I T r C C O : Yec. I'm going to follou a
20t ny attorney'c advice. -
21 0 (Dy Dr. Davenport) Dr. Doutrch, vould you 22 ploacc doccribe for nc your efqcation cince hich cchool.
1 23 A. I have a bachelorc in chemictry f rcra Georgia t
?> Institute of Technology anc' a rh.D. in chccictry from
( EE Georgia Institute of Technology.
l l
V 1 0 Uh*cn did you receive the Eachelorc degree?
2 A. 1962.
3 C. Uhen did you receive the rh.D.?
4 A. 1907.
5 O. You have not obtained a acterc degree 6 betueen thouc tuo degreen?
7 A. Fo.
0 C. Did you cpecialice in or focus your ctudiec 9 upon any particular arcac?
10 A. Yec.
11 0. What creac?
12 A. Organic chemictry.
(s~-)
13 n. Pid you uritt a discertation?
14 A. Yec.
15 O. On uhat cubject?
16 it . Firct part on the structure of the antibiotic 17 flavencomycin and the cocond pc'rt Fuclect l'agnetic 10 P.cconance Ctudice of Pan-Equivelant l' ethylene Protonc.
10 0 Dr. Deutcch, did you attend any echoolc from 20' uhich you did not creduato?
21 1. , l'o .
22 0 Uithin the area of orcanic chenistry, did you 1
1 23 further crecialice in any cubarecc of the general area
?/ of organic chemicury?
, (D
%) 25 A. l'y i n t o r e c t hac been in the gencral arcc of t
n _ . . - - _ _ _ . - - . - - - - -
i O '
1 natural products. 3 2 0. Uhat does that i; e a n ?
3 A. Organic couroundo thct are foracd by natural ;
e 4 prococccc, life prococccc, either frorn plante or cnimalc 5 an opposed to those that are ctrictly cynthetic. ;
6 0 Pave you ever cerved in the nilitary? l t
7 A. I!o . l 8 C. I ave you cver been charged with c. crinc other l l
9 than traffic offensec? l i
10 A. Uo. '
t 11 0. Ey whom are you currently er.>rlayed, Dr. !
12 Deutcch?
i 13 t. . Coorcia Institute of Technolccy. l 1/. O. Ithat rocition do you ho16?
15 A. Peccarch Scientict II. ,
t 16 0. !!ou long have you held that rocition?
17 A. Five yearc.
10 0. t!he. t crc your dutice in that rocition?
e 19 ti . nonocrch.
20 ' O. Do you teach at c117 [
r 21 7. . Ocencinnc11y; not v r eq u i r e r.ic n t of r.y !
22 rocition. ,
~
23 C. Uhen you do tocch, whet cort of cubjecto do 24 you teoch?
25 I. Orcanic chenictry. [
i n
1 0 Uduld thin be organic ch mirtry on an 2 undergraductc 3cvel?
3 A. Yoc.
4 0. Did you ever teach graducte IcVel courcec?
5 A. Po.
G 0. Uhat cort of reccarch do you do?
l 7 A. Currently I'm doing reccarch on cynthecin of i i C antitunor conrounds. ;
l 9 0. Can you c:: plain briefly uhat is that involved l l
10 in that? Ic it involved in come tyre of rcccarch? -
l l
11 A. The approach uc'rc ucing ic uhat I cc11 lead l g 32 compoun6c, compounde uith antitutor cetivity and 13 fine-tuning then to maho then ucefri crucc.
14 0. Thece are drucc that are accience to combat 15 tumorc?
16 A. Yoc.
17 0. Uhat other sort of rececrch are you currently 1
< 10 engaged in? .
19 A. That'n ny rain recuarch intercct at thic l
20' particular tinc.
21 0 Ucvc you donc rececrch in other arecc in the !
22 pact ten years? f 23 A. Vec.
P/ O. Phat other nrean?
?. D A. Teclation of'entigicecome conroundn,
1 synthecic of'numerouc natural products, synthesic of
- 2 other antitumor agentc unrelateci to the procent vo ri
- .
i
) 3 0 Do you report to anyone in your position as 4 Reccarch Scientint II?
5 A. Yec.
6 C. Ubo 60 you report to?
7 b. Can I concult ray attorney?
0 CE. FL t.C E : Ic thic relevant to the --
- 0 I:n. DM' I'ronT: I'm trying to finci out 10 about what the uitnocc's background ic. '
11 1: P. , PLACE: I think he's told you about 12 hic backgrounc'.
13 I*n. DA"DrronT: I think it's relevant.
14 l'n . plt.CC : Uc object on the hacic of 15 rolevancy. I inctruct the uituccc not to ancuor.
10 !!n. DP.VCliPOnT: You're instructing an 37 c:: pert uitnocc not to annuer gdentionc concerning what 1C cort of work he docc and uho he rciorts to in doing that j
I 10 work?
) 20' l'n. PLACr I ' r.. n o t objecting to
- 21 Ocucribing uhat kind of vor!
- he c? o c c ; I'ra objecting ac 22 to hic identifying hic cupervinor in that I don't cco 23 how it relatoc to thic inquiry that uc're here for P4 today. I inntruct the uitncou not to ancuer.
'k ?S i:n . D T N CI' P O E T : Mr. Plach, you're makint i
f
1 yourcelf the Tinal arbiter of uhut'c relevant in this 2 derocition?
3 ::P . PLACr: I'm not. I don't believe I'm i
4 the final arbiter. I believe I'n the thrcchold arbiter.
5 O. (Py Dr. Davenport) Do you cupervice anyonc,
! 6 Dr. Deutsch?
i 1 7 In. PLACE: I object on the canc bacic.
l l
C 0. (Ey Pr. Devenport) Do you hiive tenure, Dr.
9 Deutcch?
10 A.. Po.
11 0 !!cu long have you boon employed by Ocorcia (l) 12 Tech, Dr. Deutsch?
13 ?. . Appro::imately ninc yeart.
t It O. Uhat r.ocition havo you held rtior to the 15 pocition of neccarch Scientict II?
I 10 A. Pontdoctoral fellou, Ecccarch Scientist I, 17 grado one.
- 10 D. Ubat ucre your dutica a0 a Pcccarch Scientict i
10 Grade I?
20 A. Very cinilar to ry current with lecc 21 cupervicory capacity.
?? 0. rccentially you purf or:aco inderondent 23 roccarch?
24 f. . Yec.
25 O. 7.ro the cubjecto that you reccarch dictated l:
)
l 1
J I
1 in any way o:' are you f ree to pick your own cubjectc?
2 A. I'ia f ree to pick ny own cubjects.
3 0 As a poctdoctoral fc11ou r what cort of Cutica 4 did you perforn?
, 5 A. reccarch.
6 0 Do you do any teaching in either of thoce 7 pocitionc?
e S A Ycc.
)
i 0 C. Ac a neccorch Scientict II, can you doccribe
- i 10 for me how the Coorgia Tech rcccarch progran in '
i 11 ctructured?
4 12 fin. PAT.CC : I objcet to that Cecction on 13 the basic thct hac nothing to Co uith thic ir.quiry that 14 uc'rc here to0cy on. I inctruct the uitnocc not to 15 ancuer.
i 1
i 1G I:n. DAVErronT: You'rc caying the
- 17 ctructure of the roccarch progran in which thic vitnoco 10 vorkc ic not relevant to hia background?
10 !:n. PLACM: That ic correct.
! 20' O. (ny I:r. Davenport) l'ou long did you hold the 21 poattion of Peccarch Scientict I?
i 22 A. Appro::iraatcl'1 tuo to thrce yearc.
3 23 0. That vould have been appro::irr.atcl'1 1977 to i
2A 1000?
- ( ?T 4. "en.
O .
1 0. Si*nce 1980 you have been a neccarch Scientist 2 II, in that correct?
3 A. 'le c .
4 0 I'ou cany yearc were you a tontdoctoral l
5 fc11ou? i G A. Detween one and tuo yearc. ;
i 7 0 to you recall uhat yect you Itrct became l 3 enployed by Geort i a Tech?
9 A. 1975.
10 C. Dy when ucre you employed before you becoac-13 co ploy e c' by Georcia Tech? i h 12 7. Union Camp Co rt.o r a t ion .
13 c. t .'h u t rocition did you rolt uith Union Caup?
14 A. Peccarch scientict -- rccecrch chcalct I 15 believe it in. ,
t 15 O. Uac thic in Cavannah?
i 17 A. Do. l lll 0. l'hcrc unc 1t?
10 A. Princeton, I'cu Je r ecy . :
r I.
20' O. Uhat verc your Cutieu au c recearch chemict 21 for Union Car.;p?
22 A. Conduct rencatch on deuicnated porduct::.
l 23 C. 1,'h n t cort of productc did you Go rcccarch on?
24 A. I' t i t' , bicaching of wood ruir, iculation of l 4 2 .8 ottenic cheuiccin f cor.- rine treca.
i I
j ;
I j
13 i9 f 1 0. Ubat period of tirae ucre you caricyed by l 2 Union Comp?
, 3 A. 10G7 to 197/,.
1 .
!?ad you been onployec' by cnyone other than l /, O.
i 1
j 5 Union Camp or Georgia Tech since you received your-
}
G Ph.D.?
- 7 A. Uo.
i j 0 c. Did you hold any ethcr recition uich Union 1
0 Camp other than roccarch cheuict?
i 10 A. I*o . -
1 11 n. By whom ucre you employo( prior to bccocing 12 em ploy c t' by Union Cerap?
13 A. Uhen I vac not in cchool or --
1/, O. Lot me och you a c:if f erent way. Here you in 15 cchool continuoucly betuccn 10G? and 1007 uhen you l
I IG received your Ph.D.?
17 A. Yac.
10 0. Uhy did you iceve Union Camp to cone to 10 cccccia Tech?
20 A. I vac 61ccatictied with the rcccarch I vac 21 doing and unnted to move on to more interecting arcoa.
2? 0 iiid you Icave Union Ccmp voluntarily?
?? A. Yca.
2 /. O. I' t . routcch, uhat in your relationchip with h ?S Campaign for a Proctorouc Ocorria?
l
f i
t 4
- 7. Ulhit la my relationchip? Can you clarify l l 2 thet? Uhat doec relationchir ccan? :
3 C. De you have cny relationchip with Campaign l
. i 4 for A Procperouc Georgia ?
i l 5 A. I'm a member of that crcanication. i 1 '
j G 0 Do you hold any of.fice in Cauraign for a i
j 7 Procpercun Gcorgia? ,
i i C A. I'n vice-procident of the board of c'irectorc.
- I l
4 0. Uhat cre your duticc cc vice-precident of the f 10 board of directorn? '
l 11 A. Coard of directorc vac juct forculated in j l? January, that'n uhen the electionc vere hcid. Uc 13 haven't had another cceting cir.cc then, co uc're 1/, forr.ulating dutico at thic Lite.
15 O. Are you a venber of the board of Cirectors?
1G A. I accune that the vice-precident vould be. .
17 0 I guccc I'n unclear based on your recponue i
10 uhother you are c vice-prenicent for Capraicn for a i 10 rronporouc Cecrcia?
20 ' n. Of the hoard of c'irectore. ;
21 c. Ic that an c1cctc0 rouition? t 27 A. Yec.
23 0. Do you participate in rny of the functionc or 2/ octivitiec for Campaign for a reocp roec Georcia?
25 A. Ac e nenbcr I do, yct, i
i t
-m n _ _ - - _ --
r l
l O .
1 C. Ulla t cort of activiticc do you participate 2 in?
3 A. I'm interected in rauch of what they do. I't !
t, involved in the curront procccc of licencing of Plant j i
5 Vogt1c.
G 0. Are you involved in any other activitico? I 7 A. Pot currently. !
0 C. Uhen did you beconc eccociated with Campaign f l
9 for a Prosperouc Georgia? !
t 10 A. I would cay about in January of 1f04. '
11 0. Do you have any relationchip with Educational 12 Canraign Ccr a Procporeur Georgia? !
(
13 A. ro, i
14 0, to you knou anything cbc.ut E(ucational l 15 Campaign for a Prospercuc Georgia?
16 I:n. PLAC1;t I object on the hacic of l 17 relevancy. ::ducational Carapcign for a prosperouc I 10 Coorgia han nothing to to with thic recceeding or thin 10 vitnocc'c c:pertico. I inctruct the uitnecc not to 20' ancuct.
21 rn. DAVCI'r0P.?: Co b:.cicelly you vould l t
22 inctruct hiu not to oncuer c.ny vuectionc concerning 23 C(ucationci Conreign for a Precrorcuc Georgia? l 1
24 1:n. PLACr: That'c correct. I OU 25 O. (ry Cr . Dev en;'o r t.) Er. Poetech, what la your i
l l
.. . . . . . - - . . - _ = _ . _ ,
A E g 9
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1 relationnhip*wi2h' Georgians Against Duclear Energy?
2 I'R. FLI:Cr.: I pc';c the cane objection and -
3 the --
4 ::n. DArrl?ror.T: They're a party to bhic 5 proceeding. - ",
x ,
G :*1?;" f $ ACK : I vithdrau the objection.
7 0. (Py I:r . Pavenport)' Dr. neutsch, what ic.your ..
O relatienchip Geor ians Againut Puclcar Enercy?
D n. I' a cember of that o r g t.n ic a t ion .
10 0. rou'long hhve you boca a nember?
e 11 A. I don't really reccll, ccveral yearc at O
(v l? Icant.
13 0. Do you hold any i:ocidion with Canpaign for - c 14 I ic.c a n G e o r g ia n c l.gc i n c t Puclear Onercy? f ,
15 A. Po.
16 0. Do you knou hop Cuorgiana Againct Puclear 17 Energy 10 o r g ur/ic e d ?
10 7. . Po.
10 0. Po you particirete in any of the fenctionc of 7 20* Ccorgianc Againct Uuclear Enercy?
21 A. Yec, I have conc to meetingc. -
, /
22 0. Ubet cort of functionr. or activitiet by 23 Coorgianc againct t!uclea r Oncrgy have you participated P4 in?
Io)
C/ ?? l. . On an irrccular bacic they hcVe nectingc I
s-l ,
1
- s. ,
% y Wd
rT 17 Q) _
1 which I go to'.
2 C. Eut you're not involved in any other 3 activitice other than sinrly attending meetings?
4 L. Other than hou they ray be involved in any of 5 this proceeding of --
6 0 You're talkinc about the Vogtle licencing 7 proceeding?
i 0 n. Vogtle licencing proceeding.
9 0 Dr. Deutsch, were you involved at all in the 10 formation of Caupaign for a Prourcrouc Georgia? '
11 A. Pc, O i 12 I belicyc you tcctified that you Locame a t 0 wJ 13 acaber of Campaign for a Procrerces Georgia in early 14 19047 15 A. I lclicyc that'c the Cate. I'n not cicar 16 that I can cay it 's come c::act date phen I becauc a 17 ncaber. That's about the tice I became involved I'd 10 say.
19 0 Ucrc you 2. acaber at the time Campaign for a
^
20 ' Pronperous Georgia filed its pet'ition coching to 21 intervene in the Plant Vogtic licencing proceeding?
l 22 A. I don't believe co.
23 C. Docc Campaign for a Procrorouc Coorgia still 24 have terebern toctay?
(/ 25 U1. P L .'.C:' : Clarify what you mean by r#
f "
L
1 i
i 1
w 13 l ks .
1 members.
2 0 (Dy ::r . Davenport) Dr. Ocutcch, you've 3 tectified I believe that you crc cerrcntly a Icember of i
4 Canpaign for a Prosperouc Georgia.
5 A. :*u-hma. Yec.
G 0. " hat docc it mean to be a member of Campaign 7 for a Prosperouc Georgia? "ou Gid you becoce a member?
8 I!R . I'L A CE : You acan in hic min 6 0 personally?
10 lin. DAVEI?rOPT: Yoc. '
11 THE UITI?ESS: Pot creaking for them, I f) v 12 vould nay you would' write to the organication, exprocc 13 your interect and probably takc a contribution or not, 14 then you would be a nember.
15 C. (ny Er. Davenport) You are aware that 16 Campaign for a Prosporous Georgia is incorporated; are 17 you not?
18 A. Yec.
19 0 Do you know whether the bylauc for Ca6paign 20 for a Procporous Georgia havt cny provisionc concerning 21 what conctitutes acaberchip?
22 A. Fo.
23 C. You're not aware?
24 A. I do not know.
/~~'
, C) 25 0 PoU in Camraign for a Drouperous Georgia
g3 10
( )
v .
1 financed?
2 FF. FLACE: I object to that question.
3 UE. DAVDEFORT: On uhat grounds?
4 ER. FLT.Cr.: On the groundo of relevancy.
5 DR. DAVUUPORT: Are you inctructing him G not to ancuer?
7 EE. FLAcr: I an.
8 C. (Dy Er. Davenport) Uhat is the total 9 operating budget for Campaign for a Prosperous Georgia 10 for 1985, Dr. Deutsch? '
11 CR. FLACF: I make the came objection and 12 (ns_-) the cane inctruction.
13 C. (Py Er. Davenport) Dr. Deutrch, ucrc you 14 involvc0 at cll in the formation of D6ucational Campaign 15 for a Procperous Georgia?
16 UE. FLACE: I nahe the cane objection and 17 the cane inctruction.
10 O. (Ey Er. Davenport) Dr. Deutsch, are you 19 familiar at all uith the activities of Educational 20' Campaign for a Frocperous Georgia?
21 Mn. FLACE: I nahe the came objection and 22 the caue instruction.
23 0 ( Dy I'r . Devenport) Dr. Deutcch, were you P4 involver at all in the formation of C.ecro.iano Acainst U 25 reclear Energy?
~
20
(]
%~J ,
1 A. I!c .
2 C. Do you knou when that organization ucc 3 formed?
4 A. Uc.
5 O. Do you knou if that organization ic 6 incorporated?
7 P. . I do not hnou.
8 0 Dr. Deutsch, have you cerved on any advisory 9 panel or coamittee that have acic'recced any ircuec 10 concerning nuclear facilitien or public utilities?
11 A. !!o .
p)
, 12 0 I!avc you cuthorec7 any artic1cc on the public 13 utility inductry in gencral or on cny subjects relating 14 to nuclear facilitieu?
15 A. 110.
16 O. Have you ever appeared ac a uitnccc in any 17 proceeding before a court or adr.iinictrative agency?
10 A. ro.
19 0 Pave you ever appeared as e uitnecc in any 20' proceeding held under the aucpicos of the.ruclear 21 Pegulatory Commiscion?
22 A. Po.
23- O. I? ave you_ever crpeared as a uitnecs before a PA state public service conciccion or any other body 7..
(J 25 regulating utiliticc?
1
<1 21
(
\v/ -
1 A. I'd .
2 0 Hav~e you ever appeared as e uitnesc in any 3 other type of proceeding of any kind relating to a 4 nuclear facility?
5 A. I:c .
6 0 Have you ever provided any person, any group 7 or any organication an affidavit for uce in a proceeding S relating to a nuclear facility other than thir 9 proceeding?
10 A. 1:o .
11 O. IInvc you ever cubmitted urittcn comments to a
('N l? nuclear regulatory cor.miccion, the Department of b
13 Energey, or any other federal arcncy concerning a 14 nuclear facility?
15 A. I have participated in the f o r r.:ula t ion of our 16 recponsec to the interrogatories and the variouc 17 documents that have been cubmitted.
10 C. In thic proceeding?
19 A. In thic proceeding.
20 0 In any other procee6ing?
21 A. Uo.
2? O. In this proceeding did you participate in the 23 formulation of the comuente cubr.itted by Campaign for a i
l 24 Prosperous Gcorgia to the l7uclear Regulatory Conniccion i; .
Q 25 on the draft environmental ctatement?
p ,,
-v l
j I
i 4
1 A. Po.
4 2 0. Ecvc you ever rroviGcd any accictonce to any 3 party for any tylc of proceeCing ins /clving nuclear
/. cnergy or a nuclear facility other than thic rrocec6ing?
{
4 5 A. ro.
G O. Are you a member of any profcccional 7 organinationc, Dr. Deutcch?
, C li . Tuc.
i 9 C. Ubat organicationc?
10 A. Anerican Chemical Fociety r.nd the Ancrican '
11 Society of Pharmacognocy.
i en fj 12 P. -Cen you cpell thct lect or/ for the court l l-3 reporter?
l 1 .
14 2. . I'll urite it.
l 15 O. Are you a n,enber of the ?mericcn Chotical l 16 Fociety, Dr. D e u t r. ch ?
l l 17 A. Yes, i.
10 0. Do you hold cny other rocition vith tne 19 American Chenical Society other than the moaberchip?
20' A. ro.
21 0. Chet cort of cctivitier doca the ?merican 22 Chemical Society engage in?
23 A. Geholarly activitics relatc6 to the field of ,
, 1 I i M chccintry. I O
b l 25 O. " hat ~ic the nctert of your involvccant in the
- - - - - - , - . - . . , -w-4e -- .-g.-w,- , . -g ..,,w,,
1 1
/x na
/ T
- \v/ ~
l activities of that organication?
2 A. I'n not cure what you ncan enactly.
3 0 Let me rectctc the c;uc c t ion. I'm trying to 4 ask uhether you yourcelf are involve 6 in any activitico 5 of the American Chemical Society other than junt the 6 fact that you arc a member?
7 A. I?o .
8 O. '7h a t nort of activities doce the American 9 Society of Pharmacognocy engage in?
10 A. Again, it vould be ccholarly activitics '
11 related to that field, which is the use of natural 12 products ac rharmaceuticalc?
(~')s G
12 0 Ic that pharmacology?
14 h. rharnacognity.
15 O. Pharmacognicy?
16 A. Pharmacognicy.
17 0. Uou long have you been a member.of the 10 American Chemical Society?
19 A. Appronimately cince 1E52.
20 O. nou long have you been a acaber of the 21 American Cociety of Pharmacocnocy?
22 A. Appronimately cince 1975.
23 0. Arc you involved in any way in the activitioc l
24 of the-American Society of Pharmacognoc-f other than the em (v) 25 fact that -rou arc a mecher?
,f 24 L.J -
1 A. Ud.
2 0 Uith respect to either 'organication, do you 3 attend annual rscetinge or anything like that?
4 A. On an irregular bacic, but I do attend their 5 meetingc.
5 O. Uhat nonprofeccional organicationc are you a 7 ccuber of?
O CP. . PLACF: I object to that guection on 9 the bacic of relevancy, and I inctruct the uitacca not 10 to ancuer. '
11 MR. DAV3CPORT: So your pocition is that
(.a )
q 12 organicationc which thic vitnecc in inenber of, in a 13 nonprofcccional organization, icn't~ relevant to hic 14 toctimony?
15 Un. PL ACI:: That'c correct.
16 C. (Ey I:r . Devenport) Dr. Deutsch, have you or 17 Campaign for a Prosperouc Ceorgia, to your knowledge, la received acciatance -fron the Environcental Action 19 Foundat. ion with recrect to thin prcceeding?
20' A. Not to my hnouledge.
21 C. Are you a acaber of the Environnental action 22 roundation?
23 A. Uo.
i 24 C. Feve you or Campaign for a Procperouc Georgia
-r'N i
V 25 received acrictance fron Educational Ca rapaig n for o l
1
.,-, 25
! i
\v>
1 Prosperous Ge~orgia uith respect to this proceeding?
2 I!n. FLACE: I object on the came basic cc 3 carlict regarding Educational Campaign.
4 EP. DEVEEPORT: Uhat'is the bacio?
5 UF. FLACE: That it was not rclevant.
6 Un. DAVEMPORT: Acciatance that Campaign for a Prosperouc Georgia has received frcr Educational
~
7 C Campaign for a Prosperouc Gcorgia is not relcvant to S this. Froceecling? That's your position?
10 Un. PLACE: That'c correct.
11 C. (Ey I!r . Davenport) Dr. Deutcch, have you or
(;/ 12 Canpaign for a Prospcrouc Georgia receivec accictance s
v 13 frcn'the Southern Ecgional Council uith rccrect to thic 14 proceeding?
15 FR. FLLCK: I object on the cace bacia 1G with the came instruction.-
17 Cn. DAVUl! PORT: The inctruction was not 10 to ancwer the c uection?
19 I?R . FLnCF: That ic correct.
20 0. (Dy tir. Davenport) Dr. Deutsch, have you 21 received any acciatance from the Union of Concerned 22 Scientictc vith rccpect to thic proceeding?
23 UE. FLFCF: I object on the came bacic 24 anci the came instruction.
n (w/ ! 25 En. DLVEPrOnT: Ycu'rc naying that l
1
+
, a
+ \
V -
1 ascictance t h'a t the witnecc received with respect to 2 thic proceeding in not rclevant to bic tectimony?
3 :'.P . PL T.CI: : I think that that ic correct.
i 4 I'P . PM'EI:POM : I would cert ind I:r . Pl a c';
5 that Iir. Johnson tectified in his deposition that Dr.
6 Deutsch had received accictance froc, the Union of 7 Concerned Scienticto. I'm cingly inquiring into the 0 nature of that accictance.
9 I'n. PL ACI:: I under ctand IIr . Johncon'c 10 testinony. I wac therc. '
11 C. ( Dy I*.r . Davenport) Er. Ocutcch, have you f'N Y
l? received any ascictance from the or infornation frcn the 13 l'uclear Inforuction and necoerce Scrvice eith recrect to 1< thic prococcing?
15 !:n. FL ACI:: I nake'the came objection and 16 the came inctruction.
17 0 (Dy I:r . Devaneport) Dr. Deutcch, have you 13 received any information from the Union of Concerned 19 Scientictc with recrect to this preceofing?
4 20 2 ::n. PLT,CE : I make the came objection and 2] the uane instruction, i 22 0 (Oy .:r. Dcvenport) Er. Deutsch, have y.o u
! ?3 rcceived ascintance frca the criticel I:a cc Energy
! 74 Project with respect to thic rrocecding?
I o
- t. j
?5 ::P . PL T1CI: : I raa h e the came olejaction an6
27
' . (.v) -
1 the came inct'ruction.
2 IT. DAVCPrCPT: I accano you vould also 2 cbject with recrect to Coactcl Citicenc .'or a Clean
? Envircnnent cn6 -
5 "R. PLACE: Yec. If yor vant to list --
6 11 2 . D AV E?' POP T : I vould accune you uould 7- object ~ to a quection with recrect to uho clcc he'c 0 receive 6 ccciatence or in f o r ma t i n:- 2rca uith recicet to f this proceeCing?
l 10 I;E . FLACU: That'c correct. '
- 11 0 (Cy .
- r . Davenport) Dr. Deutcch, have you 12 been paid by cither of the Intcrvenorc, thct it,
(~)T
\~
13 Cami:cign for a rrecpercus Occryia or Cecrcienc Acainct 14 Euclear Encrcy to irarticipate in the Flunt Vogtle 15 licencing proccofinc?
16 A. Po.
17 0 Iicve you appcared previoucly cc c uitnecc on 12 behalf of either of thoco crcanicationc in any other 19 proceeding?
[ 20 A. lio .
i.
21 0 I'cVe you provii.ed cny inforcation in thin I
22 proceeding to the Intervencre for their ure in cupplying 23 -the baccc for cny contention aOnitteci by the T. tonic 24 Cafety and Licencing Doar(?
O V 25 A. Depeat the quection.
t
no
% /U V+ -
1 C. D r' . Deutcch, have you provided any 2 information to the Intervenors in this procecCing for 3 their use in cupplying the baccc for any cf the 4 contentionc cdmitted by the Ltonic Ecfety and Licencing 5 Doard?
6 A. Supplied means my own personal hnouledge or 7 knouledge that'c generally availabic through :.ubliched 0 artic1cn?
9 C. Firrt I'n ashing for just whether you have t
10 provided them any infortation at all, recardlecc of the 11 source.
C s
12 3. Yes.
\
> 13 n. Unve vou provided them any infornation that I
13 comen from your oun perconal knoulecge as c;:po se d to 1F generally cvailable literature?
16 A. Po.
! 17 0 Uhich contentions have you provided 18 information to the Intervenors about?
i 19 A. Contentionc 10, 11 and 12.
20 C. Uhat subject mattcrc have you provided 21 inferaation about?
22 L. I don't know hou to respond to that question.
23 Subject .aatterc?
j ? /- C. Let ri.e b r c a h it Coun. Contention 12, with
(~Nv) 25 rccrect to Contention l?, ubich addrcracc Salt drift and e
r _ - --____r , , _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ . . - . . . - -~
,n
<J
(~\
i )
L/ -
1 chlorinc eniccienc from the cooling tovern, uhat subject 2 natterc have you providcd in f o r:.:a t io n to the Intervenorc
? about relevant to that contention?
4 E !' . PL LCI' : Euch, c::c u c e r. c . Do you have 5 a copy of the contention? That night give him a better 6 vay to brea!; that doun.
7 'In. EzxDI?ronT : l'c , I don't.
O I'R . FL T.CE : Do you have cny objection'to 9 hin lcohing at a copy of the contention?
10 Un. DEVEnrOET: If you have cnc. Let the 11 record note that the uitnece in confctring with bic 12 attorney.
13 :T . PLLCE: ;'i t n e c s hac adviced it would 14 not be helpful, so uhy don't you j uct go on.
15 Tf:E !?ITUCES : I don't hnou. I ctill 16 don't know hou to ancuer in t e r ra c o f cubject matterc, 17 but I basically provided the itif ormation tha t ic in that 10 contention.
19 T. (Ey Er. Davenport) "ith respect to 20' Contention 11, did you 01n0 provide the information uced 21 by the Intervenore in cetting out the basic for that 22 contention?
23 A. i'e c .
24 n. I'ith recrect to Contention 10, cpccifically l /m V ?f subcontention 10.1, concerning t ii e c'o c e rcte effcct and
30
((v~s) 1 10.3 concerni*ng the multiconductor effect cad 10.5 2 concerning the colenoid valvec, 10.7 concerning hydrogen 3 reconbinerc, did you provide the inforcotion uccd by the
/. Intervenors for octchliching a bacic for.those 5 contentionc?
6 A. Juct to clarify, that's the cubcontentions, 7 cubpartc of that contention that ucrc adcittcd?
C C. Yec.
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 C. Did you also provide the Intervenorc uith the 11 information uced in recponding to the Applicants'
.sv f') 12 interrocatories concerninc each of thoce contentionc?
13 A. I did cupply information.
14 0 Do you know whether the interrogatory 15 recponnec that related to those contentionc contained 16 information fron courcec other than you?
17 A. I believe co.
19 0 Dr. Deutsch, uhat cubject matterc C.o you
, 19 concider yourself to be an c::pc r t about?
- 20. A. Thoce related to chenictry.
21 C. This is baced upon your degrees in chemictry 22 and your reccarch in the area'of organic chemictry, I 23 guccc?
24 A. AnC all of my porP in chemictry, ycc.
r'~~N k)s 25 C. I belicyc you ancwcred c:rlier that you had l
/~N, 31 1 )
Gi -
1 not authored *any papers or articlec that have been 2 published?
3 3. I'o , that was not ached of re.
4 O. .Let ne cak, have you aut:iored any gaperc, 5 studiec, treaticec or articles?
6 7. . Yec.
7 P. Can you give ne the titlec?
O 7 I don't recall all of the titlec.
9 T.. FLLCE: Give hin uhat you con recall.
10 TUC UITUESS: I have about 30 '
11 publications. The latect onc might be the crrecture of f']
l? a 6crivative -- the cupractructure derivative of the
%./
13 mytonanid -- --
' t.
"C. D A V D U P O P.T : Thic night cpced things 15 up. If you are villing to egree to provi6c us uith a 16 lict, I'n cure you have a curriculum vitae, that lictc 17 cost if not all of your articlec, ue will accept that.
lE UP. FL 7t CT : Ce'll be glad to provide 10 that. I have no objection. I accune, Laurie, ic that 20 true?
21 HF. POUL Dil : That'c finc.
22 0 (Dy ::r . Davenport) . IIc v c any of the papers, 23 ctudico --
El PE. FL 71C:' : E::cucc no . For the record, O) sx- 25 if you fon't get it uithin tro ucckc, uhy don't you arop e
. -.__ - _ -.-.._- ._- - - .- _- _ _. --_.- ..... _.. . _ = . - . _ - _ - . - - . _ - . _ -
1 i
i p)
(v -
32 i
l uc a letter t' o r c ri.i n d u s ,
i 2 0 ( F y I'.r . Davenport) Cr. Deutsch, have any of i 3 the paperc, atudicc, treatiner or crticlec that you have
' s 4 author ed concernec'. any of the icccca raicca 1y the i 5 contentionc admitted by the Atomic Safety ani Licencing C Doard in thic procccding? ;
4 t 7 A. I ' ri corry. I didn't hear the crection.
I j C ("hereupon, the court rcrorter read 1
i 9 back the previouc cJucation.)
t i
10 TIIC UITI'ESS : I have no ctedice dircctly i ;
11 related to any of those questicnu.
l
! C) %J 12 O. (Cy .:r . Eavenport) IIove you bcon involved in '
I 13 any ctudice indirectly related?
, 14 A. I believo ro, but.
I' 15 C. I'h a t cort of cubject matter ucc being 16 ctudicd?
3 i 17 A. Thic uas in relationship to bleaching of 10 paper pulp, which the cyctea vac chlorine baced ,
t i
, 19 chemicalc.
t 1
i 20 0 Which contention vould that be relevant to.in i
! 21 your mind?
- f. t
! 22 T. Contention 12.
1 l'
! 23 Q. Any cther recearch that you have been I
l 24 involved in that you can recall that uould be rclovant l (O/
25 to the i n c uc. ; r c. i c e d by the relevant contentionc?
i i .
I i
g~. 33 V _
1 A. Ud.
2 0 Dr. Deutsch, do you consider ycur c1f an 3 opponent of nuclear rover?
4 A. Sort of a difficult thing to ancuer in one 5 cimple uny, but I believe there are better alternatives C to encrcy iroduction.
7 0. retter alternativoc than nuclear generating 0 plantc?
9 A. Yec.
10 0. Are you oppoced to licchcing of nuclear '
11 generating plantc?
N 12 A. You nean beyond thic perticular precocding (O
12 that uc'rc here for?
la 0. In general?
15 A. In general if a pl a r, t i c -- if I thought a 1G plant could-bc cafely opercteC, I don't think it would 17 be caticfactory to licence it.
18 0. Under the current etctc of technology do you
-19 believe that a nuclear genernting facility can be cafely
.: 0 ' operated?
21 A. Again, I think thic in a very difficult 22 cuestion to ancuer and dcrands on what the definition of 23 cafcty ic. I would cay that it uould be, in my r..ind , it' P4 vould be difficult to operste any nuclear plant safely
~
(3v) 25 when vou s vice --
e
,~b, .
/- ,\
i t !
L/
- 1 C. ro'you feel that nuclear generating plantc 2 that havc been licenceC and are currently ciorating 3 chould have their licencc uithCraun?
4 FP. PLICE: You mean if he'c 5 investigating thecc difforcnt plantc?
6 :T . Pl,V 21:POR T : I'n aching for hic 7 opinion.
O "'U" UITI CS S : I would vant to look at C cach one on a cace by cace bacas.
% Do you fcel that Plant 10 0 (Dy IIr . Davenport) '
11 Vogtle chould not be grantc6 an operating licence by the (s !
l? I'u ci t a r Ecculating Conniccion?
w/
13 l. If I haC prcfcrenec, if I identify conronents 14 of that L lant that I fcol are uncafe to the environacnt, 15 then I Con't think the; choul6 be licenced.
16 0. I'm talking specifically about Plant Vogtle.
17 n. That'c what uy ancuer wac in refercnce to, 18 Plant Vogtle.
19 C. Paccc upon your in f o r:ra t ion of Plant Vogtle, 20' are you cuarc cf any rccconc that nahe you feel that it 21 choulC not be granted an operating licence by the 22 I'u cl ea r Regulating Cocainsion?
23 Un. "LaCZ: I think he just encuered it.
7 . 0:' C P I C I T C I : I d id e n c','c r thac.
) :' " r. (Py :'r. Devenport) Pr. routcch, are you
t l
P
[
,/ \ =
l k.)
i 1 cuarc of any'recconc that --
let no rcatate that. Dr.
2 Deutsch, with respect to Plant Vectle, haced en your 3 knovledge of that plant ct this tire, do you feel that 4 Plant Vogtle should not be grcnted an operating licence 5 by the reclear ncgulatory conmiccien?
6 A. Pcced on uhat I've discovered and loohed at 7 co far cnd if neu information c o ir e c in, I feel there's a C poccibility that plant vould not l' e cafe baced on the i f information that I've loched at.
i 10 C. So you feel it chould not be granted an '
11 operating licence?
() 12 n. Until it can be oportting safely it chouldn't 13 be.
1/. C. I' hat renconc or uhct arc your rccconc for 15 thinking it can't be operated cafely?
16 A. Thoce have been ctated in our contentions.
17 0. I'm ccking you nou to state them under oath.
10 A. I cen't recall all of the renconc that are 10 already in uriting that we circady have given to you.
20 0. Tell uc.
21 A. It vould bc a futile effort to try to repeat 22 all of those contentions and rccponcec that have gone 23 bach and fortl. that are already in the record.
Pt O. Dr. Ecutsch, I ' :a cching you bcced upon *;our P)
U ?" hnowledge ct thic tiac unat rceconc you have for
r~m ,O
.)
1 thinking Plan't Vogtle cannot be cafcly operated? Uc 2 eayc he can't recall all of them.
3 I'm .:ching uhich onec he can recall, I:r .
4 Plach. If he cayu nonc.
5 F ". . P L A C 7.: I didn't understand whet you 6 ucre liuiting it to.
4 7 TUC t.'ITI'USC : Ubat I can recrll at this 0 tiac i: the use of unqualificC cquiruent, cuch no C certain valvec, the use of unqualified hydrogen 10 combinerc, the rossible environmental effectc of calt 11 Crift and chlorine cmiccion, poccibility of acci6entc l? rclated to the ctccc generating cyctc!..
13 C. ("y ::r . Davenport) Uhon you r,cy accidcntt 14 related to the ctcca generating nyctcu, are you talhing 15 about tubc ruptercs?
i 16 A. 7ec.
17 0 Anything other then tube rupturec?
4 10 A. Yes. Do you want t.: e to ecll then off?
19 0. Hac there anythine elec that you can 20 ' rencaber?
, 21 A. Pacically, that'c uhat I can reactber. I
?2 haven't revienc6 any of thic ratcrialc. I haven't 23 looked at anything in nearly a vonth, been out of toun 2/ e nd concer ne c' uith other natterc ct thic tinc.
25 O. "ou have been identified by the joint
\
37 G( ~ -
1 Intervenorc i'n this proceeding cc so:aeone who may 2 toctify as a witncec on their behalf in the hearing 3 before the Ato:cic Safety and Licensing naard. -IIeve you 4 been ache'd to appear as a witnocc before that board on 5 behalf of the Intervenors?
G A. Yes.
7 0 IIcVe you agreed to do co?
0 A. Yee.
9 0 Are you fcpiliar with the contentionc 10 adraitted by the Atonic Saf cty and Licensing Board in '
11 thic proceeding?
() 12 A. Faniliar, yec.
13 C. Do you intend to tectify about any locucc 14 raised by Contention 7 cencerning groundwater 15 con t araina t ion ?
16 A. Po.
17 0 About Contention 10.1, the doce rcto effcct?
18 A. I!o .
19 G. You do not intend to testify about any iccues 20 ' relating to the Contention 10.1, the doce rate effcet?
21 A. Didn't I just answer it?
22 I:n. FL AC": I think he ansuered he uac no 23 intention of tectifying.
24 Im . DAVC1'rOET: It'c contrary to what I O
l> 25 underctood before.
i i
1 38 I
(~~/1 N_.
.1 TI? C U I T IiC S S : I said no.
2 0 (ry Ur. Davenrort) You're not going to?
3 A. Yes, I on not going to tectify.
4 0 5re you going to tcotify about eny iscucc 5 raiced by Contention 10.3, concerning the multiconductor G cffect?
7 A. Fo.
8 0 Are you going to tectify about any iccucc C raiced by Contention 10.5, concerning ASCO colonoid 10 valvec? '
11 A. Uo a r e talking about only at an e::per t (s
() 12 uitnecc in thece arcac?
- 13 0 Or ac c vitnecc at all.
i 1, 14 A. Let ne concult with cy attorney for a minute.
15 UR. Dl,VEuronT : Can you let the record 16 reflect the witnccs is consulting uith hic attorney.
17 Deady to to proceed?
j 18 THE UITi!CES : I ctill di6n't hear the 19 lact quection.
20' Un. DT.VEUFORT: Let ne ctart over.
i d
21 0 (Dy Ur. Davenport) Dr. Deutcch, do you 22 intend to tectify as an c::p e r t uitneut uith regard to 23 any contention adnitted by the Licencing Coard in this 8
24 proceeding?
, (_J ?F T. , Yac.
1 l
w 30 (v) ..
1 0 U1!ich contentionc?
2 A. 12.
3 G. Contention 12 is the only, an I correct, 4 Contention 12 is the only contention cbout which you 5 intend to tactify as an crpert?
G i. . 'la u .
7 0 Uith respect to any of the other admitted C contentionc, do you intend to tectify cc 6 non-cupert?
D US. FOULER: Hugh, at thic time we do not 10 enrect to call Howard. He haven't foruulated who we're 11 going to call on environnental qualificationc. Uc don't - -
[v ') 12 I .' E . DAVDUFOET: Ubat about staat 13 generatora?
14 I:R . FOULER: Or cteam generators. At 15 thic time we don't expect to call Foucrd.
16 UR. DTNEDFORT: So right nou the only 17 contention on which you errect to use Dr. Deutcch ac a 18 witnecc is Contention 12?
19 I4 S . PCFL Dr. : night.
20' O. (Oy :fr. Davenport) Dr. Deutsch, uhat aspect 21 of your cducational bacl; ground, training or cnperience 2? in your opinion qualifica you to testify as on enpert 23 about the iccucc' rained by contention 12?
I
"( t. . Ey degrccc in cheuictry and cope of rey
(~)
(_/ 25 recearch that I've done.
I l
40
(~%
l 1 0 Uh'at research specifically?
2 I. . Tbc use of chlorinc baccd chenicala in 4
3 inductrial practico.
I 4 0, nything einc?
5 T. . ro.
6 0. That uac reccarch performed while you were 7 cmployed with Union Can ; ?
O A. Correct.
9 0 Dr. Deutcch, have you ever ctedicd or done 10 any roccarch on geology or hydrogeology? '
11 A. Po.
() 12 0 You have not had any training in geology or 13 hydrogeology?
14 A. Fo.
15 O. I accume you do not concider yourself 16 knouledgeabic about geology or hydrogcology; is that 17 correct?
! 10 A. You neun ec an c:: pert?
19 0 Juct knouledgeabic in generol.
20 ' A. I don't knou how to nnruer that question.
9 21 0. Do you knou anythint about geology or 22 hydrogeology?
23 A. Stre.
24 0. Uhct cort of training, educational c::rerience
)
v 25 ond b;chground do you have in teology or hydroccology?
- fw 41
, tJ s , ,
l 1 li . You just ached me. I caid I had none.
- 2 0 I:ha t is the bacic for that c t a te:..e n t that you 2 3 have come know1coge cbout'gcology or hydrogeology?
4 A. I knou thingc cbout geology.
5 C. Are you familiar at all uith the geologic 6 for$ulation and hydrologic formation at Plant Vogtle?
7 A. :o.
- C 0 Dr. 1
- e u t s ch , have you ever ctudied about or 0 donc any reccarch on the effectc upon polymer r.:aterialc i 10 from radiation?
.i 11 A. l'o .
(f') 12 0. Do you concider yourcelf hnculedgaable about 13 the effect cf raciation on ;oly.aer raterials?
14 t. . In a general uay I have come knculedge of 15 thic crea.
, 16 0 I.'h a t is thct general knowledge based on?
17 A. Studico that I have road concerning the-18 effect of radiation on polymerc.
19 0 Uhat crocific ctadicc?
20 ' t, . Thoce have all imen cited in the 21 interrogatoricc.
22 0, t.ny studica other than thoce cited in the 23 interrogatory recponces?
24 f. . I don't recall.
A
(-) 25 c. t.rc you or have you cver rcvicued the retrort e
q 42 v .
1 prepared by randia national Labortorieu entitled 2 Occurrence and Implicationc of Radiation Pose nate 3 Cffectc fron cterial Agent Ctudicc?
4 A. I belicyc I have read that report. I don't 5 remember crocifically the titic of all the articles that 6 I've read. It counde familiar, f 7 C. Did you knou what crccific polyuerc the C Intervenore contend are cucceptible to a doce rate 9 cffcct in this ;;rocceCing?
10 A. I knou that PVC ic it.r.l i ca t e d . I don't knou 11 for Euro if any of the otherc arc.
N 12 0 I bat ic the bacia of your knowledge abcut 13 r"C?
la T. . That'c been identificc in a ctedy that I've 15 read an a polymer that'c cucceptibic to thece offectc.
16 0. Uac that a Sandia study?
17 A. Yec, it vac.
10 C. 1:o you have any hnouledge concerning uhat 1
10 cafety-related natcrial or equipment at Plant Vogtle 20 ' contains PVC?
21 tiR . PLTCE: Cecction ucc docc he have any 22 knottledge?
23 Cn. DAV UPOPT: Yec.
24 T!'C "ITPCCD : Pc have received a responce f~
C) 25 from the con';any 16cntifying all Eclyncrc and m
gs 43
\j 1 cafety-relate'd equipment. I have not revicued that 2 recponce.
3 0. (ry Pr. Davenport) Other than that document 4 that you're referring to that you roccived frou the 5 company, do you have any other knowledge concerning what 6 cafety-related material or equipment at Plant Vogtle 7 containt PVC7 8 A. Po.
9 C. Do you knou uhat doce ratec vere used in the 10 qualification tccting of any equipment of raterial at -
11 Plant Vogtle that containc PVC?
12 A. Po, I don't.
}
13 C. Do you knou at that total integrated dose a 14 doce ratc offect becoacc diccernible for-PVC?
15 A. Uo, I don't.
16 C. Arc you cuare of any instance in which 17 material containing PVC hac been found to be degradated 10 in any operating nuclear facility before the e::pi r a t ion 19 of its e::pected lif e as a recult of c::pocure to 20 radiation under normal conditionc?
21 A. Fo.
22 C. Do you know whether TVC or any of the other 23 polyceric raa te r ia lc tected by Candia Pational 24 Laboratorice ruffered c cignificant locc of nochanical i
( ?E properticc at a total degradated.doce of- ten nega rado 4
E r'
,s,. .
. . N 44 x %,,/ .
w e.
s 1 or lesc?
2 A. I'o . - *
.e 3 C. Do yoi!.'have any !;nouledge concerning the ,'
. ~
4 range of doce rathc.2ccd in the studice performed by 5 Sandia l'ational Laboratoricc?
6 A. 1?o , I don't recall.any of those.
7 C. Dr. Deutsch, have you ever ctedied or done S any reccarch on the-offect of radiation on clectrical O cable? .-
10 A. I'o . s 11 0 Did you concidcr"ypercolf knowledgeable about s -
C,) ,
12 the effcctc of radiation on clectrical cahic?
v < ..
13 IT. . TLT.C:: : You uc a.n r.c r e taan c layman
?.g .
14 vould have?
15 TII D U I TIID S G : I have' read thinge about 16 it.
17 0 (Dy I!r . Davenport) Uhat have you read?
18 L. The ctudiec that ue cited in the contentio~ns 19 and interrogatories. ,
20 C. Do you rhcall the nacec o' any of the 21 crecific citen? ,
l 22 A. I'o , I don't. 5 ,'
w.
- 23 0 Do you raccll if those ucre all studiec -
24 perf ormed by Candia I'ationa,1 Latora toricc ? t m > . x+
Q 25 n. I believe thcy crc.
(
~
e 3
9 a '
+
l
('
.D: -
45 1 0. D6 you have any knouledge concerning uhich 2 nulticonductorc have 1erforced cubstantially ucrce in 3 quclificaiton testing than the corrcaronding singic
- l. Conductor?
5 A. I 6on't rccall.
6 0 Did you recall uhether you have revieued the 7 report publiched by Sandia I?ational Laboratories O cntitled the Effect of I:echan~ical Simulation Prccedurcs 9 on othylene, polyethyleno rebber?
10 A. I believe that's the study that I have read.'
11 C. Are you auare of any other study or studice
' [') 12 that deal with what'c called thc culticonductor effect?
(/
13 A. I c7 o n ' t recall any other.
),
', 14 0 Do vnu knou uhether in this proceeding the 15 .Intervenore contend that any CPE cable material, other 16 than a urit'iconductor cable manufactured by Anaconda t
17 Wire and Cable company hac perdermed cubctantially vorce 13 in a culticonductor configuration than a co r r e cpo ndin'g 19 single configuration?
20' A. 'I have no knouledge of any other conductor.
21 0. To your knculedge, Dr. Ocutsch, has any cable 22 natcrial uith DPP. insulation that did not also have a 23 chlorinated polyethylene j r. ck e t perforn vorce in a
?4 nulticonductor configuration than a ringlc conductor A
(_) 25 configuration?
O
\ t'
%/ ~
1 the information from the company vac urcng?
2 A. Iio t at thic time.
3 0 Dr. Deutcch, ic it your contention thct 4 tecting di forent couronent partc of the hydrogen
~
5 recombiner ic not adequate to quclify the recombinerc ac 6 a unit?
7 A. Ycc.
0 0. Do you knou uhat conronent parts ucre tccted?
9 l. I recall that the pouer cable ucc tested.'
10 That's the only one that I can recall. '
j 11 C. Do you knou what tect: vore perforned on the 12 unit ac a whole?
O)
\
%.l 13 7. . The information I h a d c c i c' t h c. t there ucre no 14 tects on the unit as uhole.
15 O. Uhat is the basic that you contend the 16 testing on the conponente is not natisfactory?
17 A. I uould base it on juct concral ccientific 18 logic.
19 0. Could you c:: plain that language for the 20 ' benefit of the tranceript?
21 I'n . FLT.CE : I think hc cncucred the 22 quection earlier.
23 Mn. D.WC1'ronT : I'm aching him nou.
24 I:P . F L l:C E : You don't unnt him to repeat v 25 himcc1f, I'n cure.
i
I
! 54 i (m3 Q,; -
1 I: 1. D?NEI' POET : I'm aching uhat his prior f
2 recponce referred to.
3 TIID I'ITI ZSS : Tite prior recponce being?
4 Uhat do you mean by prior recponce?
5 O. (Dy I:r. Davenport) I wau aching -- you G indiccted that the tecting component uac not 7 catisfactoryy haced upon general ccientific logic, if I C renember correctly.
9 A. I:n-hum.
10 0 I uac aching you if you could c:: plain that in 11 a littic more detail uhat you mean by general ccientific 12 logic.
v 13 A. Juct bricfly that the componentc of a piccc 14 of complicated equipment are not the whole equipn.cnt .
15 It 6cpende on hou they are ;et together uhat their 16 function in.
17 C. Uhat components, if any, of the hydrogen 10 recombinerc do-you contend uould havc behaved 19 differently if the recombincrc had been tecte6 ac part 20 ' of a couplete prototype?
21 A. I don't have any crecific recc11 et all.
22 0 Do you have any knowledce of the conditions 23 to which the reconbincrc ucrc c::rocured du ring 24 qualification.tccting by Ucctinghouce?
('M
\v) 25 A. The only knowledge I have in the pouer cable e
e t ach ack you, do you knce uhether it vac a 22 Ucctinghouco cteam generator that had a problem?
24 A. That's -- yec, to the bect of uy knowledge n
) 25 thct unc identified at a Uectinghouce.
(' 5G
\,s]/
l 1 C. Atid it van not a I:odel P or uhatever the l 2 current model uac?
A.
3 It was not a I:odel P.
4 C. Do you have eny knowledge'of hou the bubble 5 collapcc phenomenon occurred?
G A. ro.
7 0 To you have any knouledge of uhat c'omage C occu rre d recelting f rcia the bubble collapse?
9 A. ro.
10 0. Ic it your contention that the stcan '
11 generator tubec of the I:odel F cteam generatorc uued at 12 Plant Vogtle cro succeptible to c'ancge due to bubble 13 collarac?
14 A. I have not road anything that would indicate 15 that they would not be just ne cucceptible as all of the 16 modelc.
17 0. Can you describe for me the ucchanism by 18 uhich thoco generator tuben vould be danaged by bubbl'c 19 collaptc? '
20 A. Precicely, I cannot. Just in general, it's a 21 reocha n ical force that could damage the tubec.
22 0 Can you Ceccribe f o r :re the canner in which a 23 bubble collapce might occur in a !:odel ? genertor uherc 24 it cight to acceeptible to bubb1c collcpce?
) 25 1, . ro, I could not.
57 (J
~3 1 0.. .Do*you know of any crecific improvementc that 2 you contend would be nececcar'/ to avoid datage due to 3 bubble collarce in the I:odel F ctcan generatorc?
4 A. I?o , I don't knou of any.
5' O. Dut it'c your contention that ctea a generator i 6 tubec have b'ocn damaged by bubble collapse on come 7 Uectinghouco ctcan generatorc?
8 A. Yec.
9 C. 10 it your conte'ntion that th e s t e a r..
, 10 generator tubec of any Uestinghouce preocured vator 11 reactor have choun signc of vibration induced fatigue hss I? croching?
13 A. Yes, cir.
14 C. Uhat codel Uectinghouce etcan concrctors?
15 A. The only knowledge that I have -- I don't 16 recall uhat model it vas. It was not the I:odel P.
17 0 Uhat is the basic of your knowledge? Uhat in 10 the cource of your knoulcoge about vibration or fatigue 19 cracking?
20 ' L. The reportr that vo've indicated in the 21 intcrrogatorics.
22 G. Any rcports other than thoce licted in your 23 interrogatory recronces?
, 24 A. l'o t to the bact of ny knouledge.
LO L_) 25 O. Uou dic' you conc acrccc the reportc that arc i
l
g3 50
!, T U _
1 identified in' your interrogatory recponsec?
2 A. I don't recall upccificclly all the rcrortc.
3 0 Can you give me juct in goncrcl uhat the 4 courccc cf information ucrc for you?
5 A. Some of it eac availabic already as a G ctarting point f rom information that G AUC and CPG had in 7 their files. Going from there, loching at further 0 informntion, identifying the cources from that, loching 0 at their referencac and further reports and 10 crocc-checking bach and forth. '
11 C. 'i?cre all of thoce reporte available from GAEC
- v(')
is 12 or CPG 7 13 A. Po.
14 0 Uhcrc did you get the other reportc from?
15 A. I would like to talk to my attorney.
l 16 ::E . DAVDUP0nT: Let the record reficct 17 that hc'c conculting his attorncy.
10 0. (2y :'r. Davenport) Dr. Dcutcch, nou that 10 you've conferred with your attorney, can you recrond to 20' my question about uhcre the other rerort: that you have 21 obtained information from, uhurc you got thoce reportc?
22 A. I obtalacd information about hinds of reports 23 from Union of Concerned Geienticts tnd liucicar Pt Information necource Concer.
23 0. Uculd that be r,crviccc?
(/
x_
I
l l
l l 59 (mg.
U -
1 A. Sdrvices, right.
2 C. Ubich cpecific cubject matterc did you get 3 reportc about fron Union for Concerned ccienticts?
4 T. . I d(in't rccc11 all of them. I got e number 5 of reports and hinds of information from each of them G and I don't recall cpecifically wherc which ones came 7 from, ubich organizations.
O O. The materialc that you reccived from both of 9 thoco organicationc, they were the actual reports as 10 oppoced to cummaries of reportc or pleadingo that '
11 referenced rcportc?
("T 12 A. Doth, cumtarico of reporic and cctual
(/
13 reportc.
l 14 0 Coing back to cteam generator tubec and 15 vibration induced faticuc craching, can you c'occribe f or 1G me the phenonenon that's referred to ac vibration 17 induced fatiguc cracking?
le t. . I don't know how to deceribe that in any type 10 of ccientific ternc. I have never read a detailed 20' c::planation of how to deccribe that.
21 0. Do you knor uhat it neanc? Uhat docc it mean 22 to you?
23 A. I knou that there hac been inctancoc in P4 Ucctinghouce rencratorc uhcre 'he t cteam tubec for come v 25 reccon actually diC chart to vibrato under certain 0
.r wI 00 w/ .
1 operating con'ditions and cauce crac!:ing in cither the 2 point of attachracnts or the tube.
3 0 " hat una cracking other then c itarly fretting?
- t. A. *?ha t unc the last vorC?
5 O. Pretting.
6 A. I don't knou the dictinction.
7 0. You don't hnou the diffcrence betueen i
C vibration induced fretting and vibration induced fatigue 9 cracking?
10 A. ro. '
l 11 C. Do you P,nou uhat the cource of the vibration P
12 vac?
O) 13 A. I?o .
14 0. Do you knou what C arc.a g e occurred to the tubo?
15 A. Other then general description that there 16 ucrc crackc produced, I don't knou specifically what the 17 Carange un c .
13 C. Do you knou whether the tube failed?
10 A. ro, I don't.
20' O. l'ha t ic the cource of your in f e r r.:a t i o n 21 crocifically about vibration induced fatiguo cracking?
27 A. The ctedic that ..c cited in our 23 interrogatoricc.
24 0. Ic it your contention thct 6egradation due to O vibration induced faticue c r.. c h i n g r..i g h t be encountered
. ) 25 I
e i
p) iv -
6.1 1 in the etcan* generator tubes of the Ucctinghouce Ilodel P
~
2 steam generator cced at Plant Vogtle?
3 A. 'J c c .
4 0. On uhat basic?
5 A. On the basic that thic has been identified ac 6 a problem uith Wectinghouce steam generatorc, and I 7 don' t have any ;:pecific knowledge that the liodel P vould 3 clloviate this probleu.
C 0 Po you knou ubether or not thic problem has 10 cver been encountered on the I:odel P chcau concrator? '
11 A. I don't have.
12 0. Are you cuarc of any decign difference
\
13 betueen the ::odel P cteca generator and c.rior model
- , 14 ctean gencratorc?
15 A. I don't knou of any.
15 C. Do you have any hnculecige ac to what might bc 17 the courccc of vibration that could induce fatigue i 10 craching in the tube of a Ucctinghouce I:odel P ctcam i
19 concreter? ,
20' A. no.
21 0. Ic it your contention that the 3.pplicantc' 22 analycia of flou-induced vibration in its final cafety 23 report ic inadequate or incorrect?
24 A. I Con't have -- I don't know how to evaluate O
Q 25 thct report. I don't knou hov to eveltate thct report
1 properly. I'have no opinion on it.
- 0. I:cyc you ever revicued that cnclycic?
2 1 3 A. I havo looked at it.
/. C. Cut you don't fccl you hcvc the hnoulcCgc or 3
5 c::pe r t ice to cycluate it in any way?
G A. In a technical manner, ycc.
7 C. Uith respcct to Contentien I?, Fr. Peutcch, 0 uould you pleace ctate for ne the subctance of the factc D cnd opinionc to which you vill tcctify?
10 T!iC UIT1?ESS : I would like to concult '
11 uith my attorney on that.
l? I n . PLi.CI' : I don't 1;elieve hc'c 13 formulated hic tccticony at thic t iia c . Icn't thet the u.
l? cucction?
1 15 "R. D AV:.'I?PonT : That uncn't the cuoction.
16 I acl:cd whct the subctance of the factc and opinionc ac 17 to which he tcctified.
13 i:3. PCML0n: IIc hacn't [repared hic 10 tectir'ony.
20 ' Un. PAVC" POP.T: Let him tell ne that.
21 T!!C UIT: 3"0 : I caid I vented to concult 22 vith my attorney.
J 23 l'n. DIN 11PonT: Let the record reflect j ?. 4 he'c consultinry with hic ettnene".
?S T!!L' "ITUCTO : I bcVen't f o r cula t c C. :ay r
l
7 l
l l
l .
T C2
! (J
- l. -
1 tectimony in'this matter, and all of the other factc 1
2 related that I !:nou have been trancnitted to the conpany )
3 in teruc of the contentionc anc the interrogetoricc. (
f 4 6 (Ey Mr. Ccvenport) Co bccically you have no 5 knouledge about iccues relating to Contention 12 other 6 than uhat'c been trancnittoC alrec6y in interrogatory 7 rcaronnec?
0 7. I CICn't say that.
9 0 In that not an accurate ctatement? l
' l 10 7, . It's not an accurcto ctatenent. !
i 11 C. Arc there cubj ect c that you might tectify !
r
() 32 10 about that relate to Contention 12 that are not diccuccc0 in the Intervonorc' intcrrogatory renponacc? l t
14 A. It'c rocsible, ycc. I haven't formulated my !
15 tecticony. ,
L 10 0 Dr. Deutcch, have you'ever studied cbout or j i
> l 17 donc any reccarch on cooling tower drift dolocition?
13 A. Uo.
19 C. I! ave you cver rtu(led chout or donc any 1
20 ' reccccch on water chlorination?
21 f. . I have f.one r ecc e r cl: in rrobleuc related to 22 that.
23 0 Uhat roccarch? !
l N t. . ':'hc bicoching of uood rulp with chlorino n
b *
.5 babcdchemicalc.
I h
m G r.
1 0 Ca'n you deccribo generally for ec a little 2 bit nore about that recentch?
{ 3 7. . Our objective vac to narinice the ocnefit of l 4 chlorinob[cedchcaicalc in bleaching and to unclerstand 5 ac nuch as poccibic the chemictry involved.
6 0. Uculd that roccarch in any uay relate to l
l 7 icsues raiced by water chlorination?
O A. It'n indirectly related and it givca to a f general knouledge of the reactionc that chlorine baced 10 chenicalc can undergo in water. '
! 11 0. Dr. Deutcch, do you concider yourcelf 32 knowledgeable at all about cooling tower drift 13 depocition?
14 7. . I have read certain ecportc that havc been 15 docuuented in our interrogator 1cc ,nd the recronce: that
. 1G the company hac given to our c;ucctionc.
17 0 liave you revicued any reportc that ecre not l 10 p r e pa r c(' by the f.pplicanta or on the Applicants' beha'lf?
19 I:P . PLACT: You ncan other than uhat'c 20 ' already been identified in the variouc documentc?
21 I P. . DAVC!!rOPT: l'o .
. 22 Tif C U I T I1TlC S : I hcvc rcad reporte not 23 prepared by the t.cplicant, ycc. They have been cited in 24 the interrogatoricc. j O l V 25 ("hcrcupon, the court rcrorter narhed 7.pplicentr' I 1 1 I
i 1
GS (v~ .
1 E::hibit c I:oc. 7 and 0 for identification.)
2 3 0 (Py ::r. Davenpor t) Dr. Dcutcch, I' r hant'ing
- t. you a c'ocuuent that'c been narked ec Arplicant's I?o. 7 5 that I believe in the Intervonors' recponces to the 6 Applicantc' firct interrogatoricc; is that corrcct?
7 : n . FLT CI:: That'c vhat it cayc on the C second pcco.
9 TUC UITI!ECS: That'c uhat it cayc on the 10 cocond page.
11 0. (ry I:r. Davenport) ::ould you review that, 12 plence, and tell ne ubich ctudict citcd in there relate x
13 to cooling tower drift?
14 A. Are you cching for independent ctedies?
15 O. I'n acking for any urtdico cited in the 16 interrogatory recponcec that relate to cooling teuer 17 drift. Let the record reflect that he's conferring with 18 hic attornoy.
10 l'C . POI L:'n : I don't think that Dr.
20 Deutcch renembern whether he provided co:ac documento in 21 your requect to produce when you c11 cclac Coun to our 22 officon to copy, and cono of thoco docunente night bc 23 related to -- none of thoco are related? Uc11, then the 24 docurents spect for thenctivec. If thoce are not there --
-s
/v) ^5 I T. . N V"I'Pon? : I'n ct; kine hic to c:: plain l
t
'm (. )
66
'% J -
1 hic prior tec'timony. IIc ' c tectified that utudice that 2 he read vere identified in the Intervenorc' 3 interrocctory responsen. And if it r.ahec it any cacier,
, i 4 Dr. Deutsch, let no give you Arrlicontr' "::hib i t G,
]
5 uhich I believe in a copy of the recponce that you C prepcred to certain of the interrogatories in our third 7 interrogatory regtect for cither Arplicante 7 cr 8 Applicent C. Can you tell ne or point me to cny 9 ctudice that relate to cooling touer drift?
10 TitC UITUEES: Relate to or -- I did read 11 Cr. David Schlicsel'c tactimony.
12 0 (Dy Cr. Davenport) On Ottcc generatorc?
13 A. :::cuce me?
14 0 !!i c tertinony di6 relatc to cteaa gencratorc; 15 did it not?
16 A. Itcre's cited a atedy 1;y Ogata and otherc in I
17 the Journal of Environmental Ouclificationc.
t 10 n. Fhat ic the titic of that, cir?
19 A. The title is not riven here. I don't have 20' it.
21 iT . PLACP: Foto the rarecraph and the ,
22 race.
23 T!ft UITruC3: 12 -- 21.
?4 c. (ily Fr. Ccv ent or t) of .'Eplicantc' E::b i b i t C7 h
u o r, v.
t l
l_---__-_____-________---____-.________
67 t ~
i I
l 1 0. Ady othora? ;
2 A. That'c the only one that I can identify. I 3 can --
i 4 I:n. plt.C:*: le'll alco chech thi'c and got 5 back to you in the ne::t couple of doyc.
G !:P. DAVE 11 PORT: I would appecciate that.
7 CD. plt.CI: : Again, if you don't hear from i
C uc, uhy don't you put that in the letter c1cc.
9 G. (Dy Cr. Davenport) 1:ou the atudy that you 10 referred to by Ogata, 0-G-A-T-A, that appeared in the 11 Journal of Environr.cntal Ouclificationc that related to 12 danace to plcntu that could occur et difforcnt levele of g
13 calt treatuent; did it not?
14 A. Yer.
15 O. It did not have anything to do uith cult 1G dopocition f rorr. cooling toverc, did it? [
17 A. I'o . That'c related to the environnental ;
i 10 dauacoc. I 10 C. Cauced by colt?
20 ' A. Cauced by colt. l 21 C. Cot crecifically calt coming frou cooling i I
22 towerc; 10 that correct? I 23 A. Thcy didn't, ac far cc I knou,.didn't ece 2 .'. colt from cooling toucra.
h 25 O. Do you conrider yourccif knowledgechic cbout
l<
l l
i l
t GC l 6 l i
1 uctor chlorination? !
2 A. I never donc any reacccch directly related to.
3 that c::cep t in terms of uhst I circady ctated.
4 0 l.re you f arciliar et c11 with the chlorinction
. I 5 of a municipal water cycten? l l 6 7. . In a general uay. rever donc any roccarch in l l
7 that arec.
0 0, no you considor yourcelf 1:nowledcochia cbout {
f 9 the ccuccc of coolinc touer drift?
10 t. . I have never donc any upecific wort: in that' 11 area. I havo read reporte on that.
12 0. On the caucco oC cooling touer drift?
13 7. Juct the fcct that therc cre driftc frcu 14 cooline Loverc. -
15 0. I'n aching specifically nou about the caucec j 1G of drift.
17 A. ro. !
i 10 0 You're not hnouledccable about the cauccc'of l I
10 drift?
I 20 ti . I don't rccc11 reading cny crecific documentc I t
21 on the coucoc.
22 0. Do you concider yr.urctif knowlcuc cabic about 23 drift dicpcrcicn and di.q.crcion undo 17 24 l. . l'o , I don't.
h 25 O. Ic it your contention that nodeling to
)
0
. Q.J .
I determine coo' ling tower drift Capocition pattern ic an ,
i 2 inappropricto technique to accece cepocition pattern?
3 A. Again, I'm not an errert in thic area, but in
{ .4 a general ucy codeling hac been curtlemented by I
5 capirical evidence in all enacc.
i j G 0. I'ha t alternative nethode do you foci l 7 appropriate for determining cooling touer ('erocition?
1 i P ::n. PLACP.: You nean cupiricci evider.co?
O 0. (ry "r. Davenport) Are you nuore of cny 10 onpirical evidence that enictc concerninc devocition i
l 11 ,atterna for any cooling touert. similar to the Plant i'
12 Vogtle natural draft cooling toucrc?
- 13 A. Po, I a t
- . not.
i 4
1/. O. Uave you revicued the 1:US Corpora tion repor t
] 15 by I:orton Goldman concerning drift derocition frou the 16 Plant Voctic cooling toucrc? That report is entitled An j 17 Dvaluation of Cooling Tover Drift Ecrocition et the 10 Vogtle Cloctric Generating Plant.
19 A. ITu c that one of the docu:, ento thct you l
20 ' cupplied to uc? I don't recall the narae of that.
i 21 0. 7cc. .
1 22 !'U . PO'1L DE : Po you knou uhen you all 23 cupplied thic becaucc :: ounce hoc been out of town the i
2/ l a c t I:io n t h .
lO jd 25 IT. N.VP;' PORT : It Wac cupplied tVice, l
r -
G .
1 once when it *uas supplioc' to the FP.C back in late 2 January or carly February and once again when Uc ;
i 3 submitted our responcct to the Intcrvenorc' t h i r c' l 4 interrogatories. I 5 If D . FO!?L ER : Poth of thoce vore in 10857 6 Un. DM'DI?ronT: Yoc.
I 7 I:P . P0"LCn: So l'ouc r d probably hacn ' t
{
l C seen it. j I
f T I! C t? I T I' 0 3 3 : I don't recall cocing it.
10 (t7horcupon, the court rcror te r ma r!:cd I.pplicants '
11 P::h ibit l'o . P for identificetion.)
13 0. (ry I:r. Davenport) Por the record, you're 14 loching at uhat'a bcon marked ac Ar;.11cantc' 3:!hibit C? ,
! 15 A. Yec. f 1, I 16 C. You have not previoucly acon that docunent? !
17 A. I dcn't recall cecing thic, ever cocing thic 10 document.
10 C. So I would accume that you have no bacic for 20 ' avaulating the codeling etudy rerfort.:cd by I'US 21 Ccrporation cinco you havnn't ccen the report? ,
l 22 A. Correct.
?3 C. Dr. Ecutcch, do you concider yourcelf 24 knouledgccble c'uout the offect of calt C r i f t. on the 25 nurroundint environnant?
l 1 A. I*have reac certain reportr, come of which 2 have bcon focumented, uhich have bcen cumraariced in. our
., 3 interrogatoriec about it. It'c not an arca that I have
/. donc any rcccarch.
, 5 O. Any report other than the one that vac 0 rrcpared by Ogeta that uc have previoucly referred to?
7 ?. . I Con't recall any other reportc. I uay have 0 read incidentc11y come other reporte, but I c'o n ' t 9 recall, 10 0. T'o ycu knou hou the calt var applied to the' 4
11 vegetation in tho Ogata ctudy?
O V
12 T. . I believe that it unc Cirectl" a:>rlied ac a
! 13 colution.
a j ,
14 0. So o coline colution vould be applicd to the 15 lecvec of the plant?
1G T. . tc Lect I can recall that unc the uay it van 17 Cone.
la 0. to you contend, Dr. Deuttch, that a drift
! 10 depocition retc of 17 rounce rce acre r.cr year vould 1
l 20' cauce Canate to the vorctation or have coue other 21 avverce envircnuental effect? .
22 A. To the bcct of t..y knouledge, fecu uhat I've l
23 rcad, there ic no c::act cutoff roint on when a e t,c c i f i c 24 drift rche voulf he haruful or not.
!/
- ( 25 O. I'c you have an opinion ac to uh
- ther a drift I
(~')
Ns-
.' 72 ',
1 deposition rdte of 17 pounds'per acre per year uobld 2 caucc damage to the vegetation?
3 A. Eaccd on uhat I have reen, this could be in 4 the lover range of valuco that I have ever ccen reported 5 as poccible arift ratcc, co compared to ether figures 6 thic would be a lou figure. But I don't knou. I have 7 never rcad anything that cayc c:actly what the cutoff 0 point and uhen damage occura cnd when it Cocnn't. I 0 0. Do you knou what types of vegetation might be 10 damaged by a drift depocition rate of 17 pounde per acre
~
11 per year?
() 12 13
- 7. . ro, I don't.
C. Do you knou what tyre of acIsaga 1:.i g h t occur 14 to the vegetation frorn such a drift rctc?
15 A. Po, I don't.
15 O. to you contend thet e drift depocition rate --
17 Do you uich to confer with your attorney?
10 A. rec. ;; .
10 (1:hc r e u po n , a diccuccion ucr. held 20' off the record.)
21 O. (Py :*r. Davenport) Uhat litcreturc have you ,
22 read concerning drif.t deyocition or calt depocition 23 rate; that cauce daif;tte to the vegetation other than the 24 Crata retort?
O V 25 f. . There that have bcun cited ~1n the
-wg g
rm, 73 (v) -
1 intcrrogetori*cc and contentionc.
2 O. Can you identify for no any other rtadies in 3 f.pplicantc' 2::hibit 7 or-Applicanto' C;:hibit P other 4 than the Ogata study that deal uith the effectc of salt 5 on vegetation?
6 n. Uell, I'll juct looh through thic.
7 0 'I'h o s e are all of the interrogatory responsec 0 provi6ed by the Applicante concerning Contention 12. ':y 9 the Intervenorc, c::cuce no .
10 n. I may have read cone other reporte thut vere 11 made available to uc in the discovery procerc. "c'll p l? have to revie.i cer recordc of thoce repertc.
LJ 13 C. Did you actually reviou any docunentt in the 14 diccovery roca ct Plant Vogtle yourself?
15 A. Po.
16 0 Did you j ust revicu copics of docuuents that 17 vere made by the Intervonors?
10 A. Ycc.
19 0 Do you knou whether those docunents that vere 20 ' copied by the Intervenoru incluc'ed any f ull reportc?
21 A. Yec, they diC. ,
2? O. Arc there any other rcporte identified in 23 your interrogatory recponcec that yov have been able to N find other than the Ogata report concerning calt detage m
b.vI 25 to vcgetation?
e
o 74 ,
(x/ ) -
l 1 A. Tliere'c none that I have been able to cec in 2 revicuing thic right nov.
3 0 Dr. Deutsch, ic it your contention that a 4 drift derocition rate of 2 poundc per ccre per year 5 uould ca uce daiaage to vegetation or have co'ae other G adverce environmental effect?
7 A. I can refer back to ry previous ancucr and 0 cay I have never read anything that (oco ider.tify an 9 c::a ct point in which a given drift rate will cauce 10 damage. That's certainly ruch lover than 17 poun6c and 11 uould probably have -- tend to have lese effcct than 17 fO V
12 poundc.
13 0. Have you ever cecn anything that nucgected a 14 drift devocition rcto of 2 poundo rer acre rer year 15 uould have any offcet upon vegetation, any harmful 36 effect?
17 A. I have not scen.anything.
10 0. In fact, is there a.pocsibility that a drift ID deposition rate of.2 pounds por acre per year might have 20 ' a beneficial effect on vegetation?
21 .A. I've not cecn any reportc. I juct --
I guccc ,
22 it'c just ac lil:cly one uny or the other cince I don't 23 have any knouledge.
24 0 Ic it your contention all of the disco 1ved p.
25 colido from the drift from the Plant Vogtle tos:c r t vould
()
M
75 73
( !
1 be caltc?
2 A. Uo.
3 0 Do you knou uhat rortion of the diccolved 4 colids in the drift from the Plant Vogtle cooling towerc 5 uould be caltc?
6 A. Uo, I don't knou.
7 C. Do you dicagree uith the statement made by C the nuclear negulatory Conniccion in'the draft C environmental report that appro::inately one-ceventeenth 10 of the dissolved.colids in a drift uould be cc1t?
11 A. I don't recall that ctatement.
[^'T 12 0. Did you have any bacin for dicagreeinc vith O
13 it at this tiac?
14 A. The ctatement is that one ceventoenth of the 15 -I don't have any basic at thic time for agrcoing with 16 it or disagrecing uith it.
17 0 Is it your contention that all of the caltc 18 in the drift fron the Plant Vogtle cooling towerc uou'1d 19 be harnful to vegetation?
20 ' A. Could you repeat the guection?
21 C. Ic it your contention that all of the calte ,
22 from the drift fro:a the Plant Vogtle cooling towers 23 uculd bc harmful to vegetation?
24 7. . I have no bacic to breah it doun into
(,,) 25 cubcatcgc: 2cc of caltc, if thet'c that you're aching.
d s
?
N 7G 4
1 0. Dut- the possibility does c::ict that conc
! 2 . level of calt drift might actuclly be beneficial to j 3 vegetation?
, i 4 L. I have no knouledge.
l S 0 You have-no knouledge on uhich you would G' disputc that ctatonont at thic time?
7 A. Co.
- O 0. Ic therc a.thrcchold of calt drift deposition
]
- 9 rate belou uhich no damage to vegetation occurs to your i <
l 10 knouledge?
l 11 A. Mot to my knowledgc. 3 i
j 12 0. Is'it your contention that anything abovo ;
i- 13. cero vill have an adverce effect?
i 14 E.. Uo, it'c'not.
4 .
15 O. So there is come icvel belos uhich no adverse
{
j 16- offect 0111 occur and come level.above~uhich an adverce 1
17 offoct vill occur?
, 10 -Un. PLACC: 'I don't thinh-hc said that. [
] 19 THE UITUESS: I'm villing to ctipulate i
t
'20 there'c como level no effectc vill occur.- I th inli t it 's- .
21 an e::trapolation of ' almost anything to scro.. ,.
22 10 . =(ry Mr.-Davenport)
Isn't it truc there'c-
-23 conc level above zero of halt drift derocition.of which 2 /. - -no - harmf el: cf f ect .uill occur?- Your recponsetindicated
.' 2 5 no.cffcctc..
I'n nou crocifically: aching'about h'rmful
- a I
I i
l-- _ -. .- -- . , , . _ , _ .a . _ . . _ _ _ _
~ .
, /- .
77
'l effectc. ,
2- A. There's come point above.coro in which no e
3 cffecto can he obccrved.
4' O. .00 basically there ic conc thrcchold 1cyc1 of 5 calt drift deposition for damage to vegetation but- -
6 you're not aware of that 1cyc1?
7 A. Fron uhat I have read, there is indicationc 8 therc'c nome 1cyc1 at which'no effects arc obacrved. I 9 don't vant to put that --
that's all I can ancuer.-
^
10 0. You don't knou what cpecific-IcVelc?-
11 A. I don't'know that level..
(} 12 13
- 0. Do you dicagree uith the cooling touer drift.
. parameterc uccc' by the Applicantc ~ in predictirig drif t 14 deposition rates?
15 A. I have no bacis to dicagrec'uith it.
16 0 Have you yourccif attempted to octimate~ drift 17 depocition ratcc for the Plant Vogtic; natural-cooling 10 touers?
19 A '. . I'o , I haven't.
L20 ' O. Do.you' contend tliat chlorinc. gas' vill.be I 21-
~
emitt'ed from the Flant' Vogtle' cooling toucts?'
24 ~ couroundc otherlthan: chloride anion.
bv .25 D.
~
Ubat do.you acan uhen you uce.the term l
=
% --- m - - -ear'Y e y c- me p {=J-w .- a ve gryy n 't--* $ yV -
,o. 73
! s
.I /
x> -
l 1 chlorine gac?
2 A. Some form of elemental chlorine that bac 3 onyidicing potential.
. 1 4 0 Can you give me a mora :Loctric recponce?
5 A. Thic wac.all summariced in our 6 interrogatories. I have nothing further to add than 7 Uhat has clready been ctated in the interrogatoriec.
O O. Uhat did you use the term elemental chlorine 9 to refer to?
10 A. The element of chlorine and cpccifically ac' 11 stated in the interrogatoriec forac of chlorine other IN 12 than chlorine anoid.
\8s )
13 0 What mechanical and chemical actionc vould 14 result in toe emiccion of chlorine cac from the coolinc 15 touers?
15- A. If you mean chlorine gas in the forc~that I 17 previously defined, the came mechaniccc which cauce a IP calt drift, uhatever mechanicmc c :.po l calt drift from a 19 touer could expel chlorine.
20' O. That'c the mechanical action involved?
21 A. Uhatever mechaniccc cauce calt drift uould .
22 ccuse enpulsion of chlorinc.
-23 0 Uhat would be the environmental offect of 24 chlorine gas emitted from the riant Vogtle cooling
(~N i/~
1 25 touerc?.
I s.
e 79 i
-l .
1 A. I*have not been abic to read any ctudies that 2' uould say enactly at what levels, but certainly at come
~
3 level that chlorine courounds are knoun to bc' tonic to 4- life fornc in general.
5 O. That's at very'high levelc, ic it not?
6 A. Corapared to louer levels.
- 7 0 Let me rephrace that. Do you have any.idca C uhat ar.ount of chlorine gas vould be cuitted from the L D natural drift' cooling toucrc at Plant Vogtle?
1 1 10 A. At this time I have not been able to '
11 formulate any specific prediction as to the levels-of 1.
- 12 thlorine compoundc that would be
- enrelled.
13 C. I'r aching crecifically a. bout- chlorino gac.
14 1: haven't gotten to' chlorine compounds or did you 15 include compounds uithin the phrase chlorine gac?
16 A. I believe that's uhat uc vent over a feu 17 minutes ago. I said -- I defined ~ chlorine gac. Uhat I 18 .nean;by that now is chlorine combounds other than 19" chloride anoin. .
L _
.e 20' O. Uhat' amount of chlorinc derivativec or 21 chlorine conrounds do.you contend would:be caitted'from ,
i 22 the. cooling toucrc as part of the drift?-
l 23 A. Ac-this' time I-have_not formulated any-oract 24 drift of= chlorine coupoundo.
!. l25' O. Uould the chlorine cc= pounds.cnd chlorine I
[.
l l .'-
1
00
'v; s
I derivatives that you contend that would be emitted from 2 the cooling touer be contained in the drift?
3 A. The probler; that I have uith that.is uhat do 4 you :.ican cy 6 rift. Other than uhat coacc out of the 5 teuer?
6 C. I ' :' talking ab.out essentially thc noicturc 7 that coacc out of the t oi. of the tcuer ac the hotter air 0 risen out. I'u talking about bacicelly water :-crticlec 9 that cone out of the top of the touer ac part of the 10 cooling procces? '
11 A. I.c epposed to uater vapor?
('N
, 4 12 6 'le c .
'%.J 13 3. Can you rcreat the cuection, plcacc?
lo 0 Are you contending that the chlorine that 15 would be enitted from the natural c'rif t cooling teuers 15 would be contained in the drift?
17 n. Part of it uould be.
18 0 Uhat other chlorine vould be critted from the 19 cooling toucrc?
20 7. . Just the formc of chlorino that I have 21 already-talked about. ,
22 C. Uhat uculd be th~e other nochanicar besidec 23 the drift that uculd renult in the ouicsion of chlorine?
24 A. I ctill don't kner uhat you mean by drift.
( r~
l
() ._s 25 t'h o torr salt drift ic useC bere. : y unCcretanding ic a
__ . ._. , - .= . _ . _ ._ ~
4 81
, a, '
t 1 that ic 'the _ ria te r ialc we ' r e talking about. I mean that
-2 is it'c not -- the_ salt drift ic not just-unter. And i 3 now you'rc sort of like you're saying that drift is i
! 4 .uater but, you know, it'c very confucing uhat you're 5 caying.
G 10 Uhat I'm aching bacically is what emissionc 1
7 from the cooling towers do you contend vill- recult- in I .0 chlorir.c being placed in-the currounding environment?
I 9 A. I'm norry. Ic the quection --
+
10 "R. PL AC::: Uhat? '
i 11 IIR. .DAVDI! PORT : Emidcionc.
I x-p/ 12 I:n. FL ACH : I think he'c ancwered that.--
I unnt to:be cure I' 13 :T. . DAVE 1?rORT:
14 ^ underctand.
15 THE UIT1?ES$ : I'_have unsucred it. .In my 16 opinion that these chlorine compounde~uould-be emitted
~
l -17 by the came mechanism that cult drift in cuitted from 10 the towers.
l 19 0.. (Ey Iir. Da'venport) l'adicclly thic contention 20 .referc to chlorine omitted from the cooling towern as 21 part of the-drift; ic'that correct?I ,
~
- 22. A.: I procume that.that'c -- I'tean, it'c.hard -
~
-23 . f or ' rae ' to underctand' uhat the distinction --
i .
- 24 O. Did cyou draf t
- thic contention, Dr.'Doutsch?
25 'A. Yec.
k
. - - . -- u ,w y m-- y ,+ r .
, . - . +,,,,e y
-(~~bt 32
'%s'6 -
1 0 U!ia t did you intend to refer to?
2 2. Ac chlorine compounde cnitted froc the touer 3 as part of or ccparate from calt drift, uhether they 4 occur in c::actly the came little particle or uhether 5 they're in a little different particle.
G O. You're talking.about bacically chlorino 7 that'c trancrorted by come mechanica from the touer 0 through the atcocphere to the currounding. ground?
9 A. Yec.
10 0 Do you know hou the anount: of chlorine '
11 derivativec and chlorine compeundt in the unter in the f'N
\ /
.12 cooline touerc at Plant Vogtle comparec to the amount of v
13 chlorine compounds and derivativec in chlorinatcd 14 drinhing water?
15 A. ro, I can't.
16 0 You don't knou uhether it uculd be more or.
17 less?
18 A. I don't have any bacis to ancuct that 19 question.
20 ' O. Uould you agree with me'that if it vere the 21 came an chlorinated drinking uctcr, then there vould'be ,
22 no adverse environmental effect?
23 "n.FLACZ: I objcct. The uitness has 24 already ancuored.
,-~
25 IT . DAVPPPOET:
't ::r . Plach, he didn't'knou l v i
i
[
1
.d 03
}]
+
1 ~uhother it ua's the came-as chlorinated uater. I'm
, -2 aching him to accume it uculd be the came and cch if he i
thinkc there vould be en cdverce environmental effect?
- 3 3
i
. 4 THC 17ITPECS: I have no basic to ancuer i
1
! 5 t h a t '.
G Q. (Ey pr. Davenpo r t) Ic it your contention 7 that a chloride deposition rate from the Plant Vogtle 8 cooling toverc of tuo poundo per acre per year vould'
-9 cauce damage to the vegetation or other adverce i
~'
10 enviromental effect?
{
11 A. I don't have any specific knouledge of uhat 12 enact drift rate that chloride could be harmful to-13' vegetation.
l ,
14 Q. Have you revieued the Applicants' rcsponsec 15 to the Intervenors' interrogatories on Contention 12?
I l ,
16- A.- Yec.
i 17 0 Have you a disputo uith the Applicantr' 10 cctimate of a manimum chlorido depocition rate ofEI.3^
1 1
- 19 pounds por acre per year as.cnplained in the rocponse?-
20 ' A. Can you'give us the appronimate.date on that?
i- 2:1 fUc c it thic ycar?- ,
.22- 0 Ycc. Fcbruary.
~
23 A. 'I don't have any bacic'at thic time to 24 .dicpute that,
~
t 25 O. Pr.: Deutcch, do'you-knou anything.about T
- /~4 04 il diccel genera' tors?
2 A. Yec.
3 p. Do you knov anything about the TrancAmerica
? Delaval energency dicccl generatorc'uced at Plant 5 Vogt1c?
G A. Yec.
7- O. Ubat cpecifically?
O A. They're called TDI diecc1 generatore. I have 9- read general reportc that cay they don't ucrk too 10 reliably.
~11 C. . nave you ever scudied the acchanice of diccol 12 engincc?
- 13 A. lio .
I 14 0 Do you concider yourcelf knouledgcabic about
\-
! 15 the particular defectc,that have. occurred with diesel 16 generators at Dlant' Vogtle?
i j 17- A. Uo . -
lE' -(Uhcrcupon, a recccc vac taken.)
19 G. (Ey Mr. Davenport) 'Dr. .Deutsch, because of.
l 2 0. ' my scracuhat ' conf ucing questions, I'm not..curc whether I i ~
l 21- covercd~everything uith recpcet to chlorinc. .I'c'not ,
i 22 curc'.I:acked you gucctions about chlorinc derivativoc ac 4
23 ~ _
- opposed to-chlorinc~ gac. Prou the uay you uced the-term
. 24 gas, did~you encouracc chlcrinesderivativec?
- (%.
i 25 A.. Yec.
1 i
i i.
s - .... . _ %2. o . . - . m. <u...m -. m -m , .m. . ... . .
.4i -
s.
- 1. (
- r.h 1
35 Y -
1 0 Th.*e questionc you ancuered about gas apply to 4
2 chlorine derivatives as ucll?
3 L. Yec.
4 Un. DAVCUFonT: I have no further I
5 quectionc.
-G 0 -(Cy Ur. Plack) Uhen you use the term l 7. 'interrogatorict in your tcctimony here thic acrning, can
< C you c::rlain uhat .you mean by that?
1
~
1
- - .9 A. I guccc I vac ucing it in a. cort of c loocc-1 10 way. I meant.all uritten responccc between the company' j 11 or the nuclear Regulatory Conniccion-that.I. participated 4
( -12 in any way or that that I'm familiar with in any. Fay.
f 13 -Pot c::a c t ly --
1
!. 14 O. You don't tcan in the legal.cence ancuers to t
15 interrogatories ac. opposed to a-requect to admit?
16 A. All of those things I vac-trying to mean.
17 Un. DAVEUFORT: 'F o r the record, I.did.not i
I
! 18 object to you're asking questionc. I will in the
,i
!. 19 future.
20 Un. FLACE:
.I's properly; noticed. I'm
- 21 corry.. ,
22 Iin. DAVElironT: Applicants- 5::hibit . 7 .is a 1
23 copy of thc. interrogatory rceponces-to the-Applicants'
! 24 first 'in te r r oga to r'ics ' uith . a copy of a. cover letter from
'25 Lauric.rouler, 6ated Septeuber'F, 1EC4. Applicantc'
[
j ,
F 2G r
\ .
1 E::hibit 8!is'a copy of a portion of the interrogatory
- _ 2' responacc prepared by the Intervenorc to the Applicants' 3- third interrogatorice. Those responses relace to l' i
! /. Contentionc 10, 11 and 12 uith a cover lettcr dated' i
5 February-7, 1935, from Tim Johncon. And Applicants' i
U::hibit 0 is c report prepared by 1:US Corporation
_7 .cntitic6 T.n Evaluation of Cooling Touerc Drift 1 8 Deposition at the Vogtle D1cctric Generating Plant,
- 9. dated January 29, 1905. And I ac councel for the
! 10 Applicant will retain these e::hibits.
i 11 (Doracition concluded.)
! 12-4 13 -
{
i 14 y <
15 >
- t 4
j - 16 1 i l 17 ,
5 -
i IP L J-
! ' lC I,
- 20 ' i i
! 21 22 ,
1
! 23' :
, - 24~
25 y h
6
[
- .---,..:--___m.._,-, _-. - - - ,. _ .. . ... _ ..,_.;._,, -. . _ . _ . . , _ _ - _ . . - , . ~ - . _ _ . , ,
8
- j. .
l-1-
r 1 .
I C7 i .
i.
! 9
~
1 f
- 3 STATO OF GPOP. CIA
l- 3 COUl!TY OF ULTOl!:
j 5. I hereby cortify that .the forcgoing ,
I' G tranccript uac tahon doun,.ac stated in ;
i t-
!' 7 the caption, that the witaccc vac first E duly cuorn, and the qucctione end encuerr
- 'C thereto ucro reduce 6 to tyreuricing ender 1
1 -'
i .10 ny dircction; the foregoing pagcc 1 through 3
! 11- 8G reprecent-a trec, correct, and coc.plete
! 12' - tranccript of the evidencc diven upon said
- i. .
l 10 h e r,r i n g , cnd I further'ccrtify that I c:a 1
- 14 not of hin or counc.cl to the .carticc in the- ,
7 1 -
. l
- 15 cace; am not in the rcgular employ of f .
16 councel for any of said partico; nor ara I
! 17 I in anywise'interocted in the-recult.of-i 10- Said case. ,
e 19 -This, the 29th.dey of rarch, 1905. !
- - 20 '
i
! 'l t
22 23 :: AP.Y 0 . JPD:?OTCP, CCD-E-720 -
"y icomniccion c::pirco the 24 3rc dcy of reccaber,: If05.
. %, t.
i e 8
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