ML20077S029
| ML20077S029 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 01/13/1995 |
| From: | GEORGIA POWER CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#195-16287 93-671-01-OLA-3, 93-671-1-OLA-3, OLA-3, NUDOCS 9501230235 | |
| Download: ML20077S029 (144) | |
Text
Gfficiel Transcript of Procacdings Q NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Georgia Power Company Vogtle Electric Generating Plant (Unit 1 and Unit 2)
Docket Number: 50-424-OLA-3; 50-425-OLA-3 ASLBP No. 93-671-01-OLA-3 Location: Rockville, Maryland Date: Friday, January 13,1995 b
Work Order No.: NRC-85A Pages 2621-2762 l l
l DRIGK NEAL, R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Riiode Island Avenue, N.W.
p, Wasliington, D.C. 20005 U -
(202) 234-4433 TR. O I O 1 r.n 1 / G \
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3 2621 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA p
2 NUCLEAR _ REGULATORY COMMISSION
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3 +++++
4 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 5 HEARING 6 -------------------------------X 7 In the matter of: : 50-424-OLA-3 8 GEORGIA POWER COMPANY, et al. : 50-425-OLA-3 9 : Re: License Amendment 10 (Vogtle Electric Generating : (transfer to 11 Plant, Unit 1 and Unit 2) : Southern Nuclear) 12 : ASLBP No.
13 -------------------------------X 93-671-01-OLA-3 14 Friday, January 13, 1995 15 Hearing Room T 3B45 16 Two White Flint North 17 11545 Rockville Pike 18 Rockville, Maryland ,
19 The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, 20 pursuant to notice, P 9:00 a.m.
21 BEFORE:
22 PETER B. BLOCH Chairman 23 JAMES H. CARPENTER Administrative Judge 24 THOMAS D. MURPHY Administrative Judge D
.d 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTER 3 AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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2622 1 APPEARANCES:
2 10' 3 On behalf of the NRC:
4 5 CHARLES A. BARTH, ESQ. ,
6 JOHN HULL, ESQ.
7 MITZI A. YOUNG, ESQ.
8 of: Office of the General Counsel 9 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 10 Washington, D.C. 20555 11 (301) 504-1589 12 13 On behalf of the Licensee:
A V 14 15 ERNEST L. BLAKE, JR., ESQ 16 DAVID R. LEWIS, ESQ.
i 17 of: Shaw, Pittman, Potts & Trowbridge 18 2300 N Street, N.W.
19 Washington, D.C. 20037 20 (202) 663-8474 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2623 1 APPEARANCES:(cont.)
2 JAMES E. JOINER, ESQ.
/~3 V JOHN LAMBERSKI, ESQ.
3 4 WILLIAM WITHROW, ESQ.
5 of: Troutman Sanders 6 Nationsbank Plaza, Suite 5200 7 600 Peachtree Street, N.E.
8 Atlanta, Georgia 30308-2216 9 (404) 385-3360 10 11 On behalf of the Intervenor:
12 13 MICHAEL D. KOHN, ESQ.
l Di O 14 STEPHEN M. KOHN, ESQ.
15 MARY JANE WILMOTH, ESQ.
16 of: Kohn, Kohn & Colapinto, P.C.
17 517 Florida Avenue, N.W.
18 Washington, D.C. 20001 19 (202) 234-4663 20 21 22 ,
23 24 0 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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i 2624 1 INDEX 2 ] FITNESSES: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS BOARD U 3 DARL 5. BOOD 2626 2637 2731 2729 2638 4 lPREDERICK ALLEN 8 PACE 2639 2733 2735 2641 5 JOHN ROGGE 2641 2737 2642
,6 ,
2647 2741 2650 7 2651 2653 8 2654 2656 9 2664 2668 10 2670 2673 11 2678 2681 <
12 2682 2683 13 2684 2686 14 2688 2690 15 2690 2691 16 2691 2703 17 2704 2719 18 2725 2727 19 2728 2728 20 2733 21 2736 22 2741 l 23 24 Excerpt of Audiotape No. 172 (p.51-54) following pag 2647 O 25 (No 9 9 55 91v a to reporter)
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2625 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (9:03 a.m.)
f, t ;
'~'
3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Good morning. We have some 4 motions to strike.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, Your Honor. Are we on 6 the record and ready to begin?
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I already began.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Oh, okay. First motion to 9 strike, NRC --
10 MR. BARTH: Could I have a moment, Your Honor, 11 until I get my witnesses present?
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. They don't need to be 13 present for the motions to strike. They're over here.
14 During the motions, if you feel more comfortable, they can 15 be sitting there.
16 MR. BARTH: Before Mr. Kohn starts, Your 17 Honor, I would like to ask the court for permission to 18 make one additional correction or change to the NRC 19 testimony which was admitted yesterday if I might have 20 your indulgence.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Yes.
22 MR. BARTH: Our examination last night showed 23 a possible difference in words. We're not certain because 24 we don't have the recipient cf the copies sent out on
) 25 December 28, 1994. Mr. Hood?
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L 2626 j 1 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, sir?
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION (continued)
\
/
3 MR. BARTH: I direct your attention to page 11 l 1
4 of the prefiled testimony of yourself and the other 5 gentlemen for the NRC staff. Do you have that page in 6 front of you, sir?
7 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, sir, and I'm looking at 8 the version that you handed out yesterday in the courtroom 9 -- hearing room.
10 MR. BARTH: Thank you for that. Will you ,
11 please read the last sentence on page 11 as the three of 12 you gentlemen want it into the record as your staff 13 testimony? Read very slowly, if you please.
O
\/ 14 WITNESS HOOD: Just the answer?
15 MR. BARTH: I want you to read the testimony ;
16 that you want this licensing board to hear as evidence --
17 the last sentence on page 11 as the three of you gentlemen 18 want it entered into the record.
19 WITNESS HOOD: Thank you. Our intent was for 20 the statement to read, "Therefore, hereby affirm the 21 conclusions in that decision."
22 MR. BARTH: Mr. Allenspach, do you agree that 23 this is the way you people intended this testimony to be 24 written?
() 25 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I do.
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7 2627 1 MR. BARTH: Mr. Rogge, do you agree that this 2 is the way the three of you intended this testimony to be (n) 3 written?
4 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, I move that the 5 amendment to the last sentence on page of the prefiled 6 testimony --
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I don't know if Mr. Rogge 8 responded.
9 WITNESS ROGGE: Charles, that answer was not 10 being provided by me on this question 13 that was by these 11 other two.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: There's no need --
13 MR. BARTH: That's right I think the
(-/ 14 correction -- I thank you, Mr. Kohn.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The record is self-16 explanatory. There was teatimony admitted and now it's 17 been changed, that's fine.
18 MR. BARTH: Thank you, Your Honor.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn, your motions to 20 strike.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I call the Board's 22 attention to page two, question two at the top of the 23 page. What is the purpose of your testimony? It has no 24 relevance and constitutes legal argument. Request the
(_) 25 question and answer be stricken.
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i 2628
.l 11 MR. BARTH: In response I would say, Your !
~
2 Honor, it is usual to say that the purpose of the ,
,O' !
3 testimony isn't relevant. What they're doing -- of course 4: it's relevant. Second of all, Your Honor, this is a 5 format that has been usedlmany times so that when the ,
6 person picks up the testimony, he understands what it'is.
7 Without knowing what they're talking about, ;
8 you can't understand the testimony. We have copies ~in .
9 transcript, I understand that. I think that this is 10 almost a facetious objection. It is not well taken. I r
11 wish to strike it. l 12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We can leave it in the !
13 record, but it is not testimony so it shall not be treated i 14 as testimony.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Second, with respect to ,
16 question three, the answer beginning on the bottom of page 17 two, I also managed the preparation of the partial :
18 Director's Decision running to the end of the answer to be .
19 stricken for grounds of relevance. Partial director's 20 decision was vacated and can have no legal effect on any 21 proceeding. The other statement concerns response filed 22 to the motion for summary disposition. NRC staff's f 23 response -- ,
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: This motion is denied because 25 it shows the contact of these people with this issue and NEAL R. GROSS :
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2629 1 -would show what we would expect them to be informed about.
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Mr. Kohn,'back V
3 on that question.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, sir.
5 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Was your motion 6 to strike the answer of both Mr. Hood and Mr. Allenspach?
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I actually didn't review Mr.
8 Allenspach's answer if there's a separate ground.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: We were seeking also to 10 strike portions of Mr. Allenspach's answer as well. I 11 guess my main concern is that there's reliance on a 12 vacated decision, and I believe the law is clear that once 13 a legal decision is vacated by a higher authority --
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: You don't interpret the fact 15 that they worked on that stuff to mean that they're 16 relying on it. It does show the scope of t)eir knowledge 17 and what they're informed about. It's denied also with 18 respect to Mr. Allenspach's testimony.
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, question five 20 and the answer essentially provides opinion --
21 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: What page are 22 you on, sir?
23 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Page six, question five and 24 the answer constitutes opinion testimony. The witnesses
) 25 have no first hand knowledge of interactions -- based on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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- 1 1
2630 !
1 'the content.of the prefiled testimony have no knowledge of 1
2 communications ~between Mr. Dahlberg and Mr. Mcdonald, Mr. <
3 Mcdonald and Mr.:Farley or Mr. Farley and Mr. Dahlberg. .
4 And the testimony does not set forth a valid 5 basis for reaching their opinion, and they are not put !
6 forward as' experts in the field of control of operations. ;
7 They are -- as I understand it, being put forth as fact [
'8 witnesses.
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn, do you really want 10 to show that it was a misrepresentation that mislead the >
t 11 NRC without being able to show what the opinions of the i
12 - NRC personnel were? The motion is denied, i 13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: We now call your attention J
O' 14 to question ten and the answer concerns a September -- on 15 page nine, concerns a September 28, 1994 visit. Again, 16 this was a subject of a motion to strike filed earlier ,
17 with the Board where we' indicated that we would first ,
i 18 require discovery on this matter. And second, at least an 19 opportunity to depose the witnesses with respect to their .
20 visit.
21 Third, that the visit did not constitute an 22 inspection. No inspection report was issued, and i 23 therefore it actually constitutes a form of diccovery to i 24 which Intervenor was precluded from attending and should
() -25 have been given the ability to attend and ask questions at ,
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1 2631 ,
1 that time. Therefore, we request that question ten and i
2 its answer be stricken.
r k 3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm reading it to try to
! 4 comprehend what you're saying. Hold on a second. This is 5 question 11 we're talking about, right? ;
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Question ten.
i 7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: That explains why I couldn't 8 understand it.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Question ten concerns a 10 Septender 28 and September 29 visit to Birmingham af ter --
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, I can read that.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. }
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm sorry, how could we --.we 14 can't exclude evidence concerning what the staff knew in 15 an allegation concerning their having been mislead. So 16 this is essential testimony and the motion is denied.
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Last is the question and 18 response number 13 on page 11.
19 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Excuse me, would 20 you say it again, please? ,
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: On page 11, question 13.
22 Staff is attempting to affirm a vacated Director's 23 Decision. They do not have the authori*y to do so. The 24 testimony relates to a document which is not in evidence ,
25 and cannot be cited for evidentiary weight as much as it i
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2632 1 has been vacated. An,. we believe that the question and 2 answer to number 13 should be stricken in its entirety.
.(,s-)
- i 3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The witnesses are asserting 4 that they still agree with DD 93-8 and you'll have a 5 chance to show why that's improper.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, DD 93-8 7 concerns the 2.206 petition and --
8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But it's only that portion of 9 it that deals with control of nuclear operations which is 10 what's at issue here.
11 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, if I may interject. I 12 really owe everybody an apology. This is -- Mr. Kohn's 13 objection is a result of my own fault in being careless.
' () 14 The last sentence we sent out probably said we hereby I
i 15 affirm the decision. Mr. Kohn's right that we probably 16 should not have done that, that's why we changed this to 17 state that the staff affirms the conclusions in that 18 decirion and not the Director's Decision itself.
19 They still find that there is no illegal '
20 transfer, and we did not want to run into the problem of r
21 trying to rebuttress a vacated decision. So we affirm the 22 conclusions only.
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I guess there is a problem 24 with the question in that in fact it was the director's
( 25 conc lusions and not their's. So the question is also "
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r i l 2633 1 slightly misleading.
2 MR. BARTH: This could probably be cleared up
() 3 best by cross examination by Mr. Kohn which I'm certain 4 he's able to do.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, the Director's +
6 Decision is not in this record to my knowledge. And we 7 believe it is simply prejudicial. The Board should nat ,
8 give that decision any weight. It was vacated. Once it 9 is vacated, the Board cannot give it weight. And I say 10 that by putting that decision into the record, it will 11 inevitably give someone some weight at some point, and 12 that is the point of a vacated order, so it should have no 13 weight.
14 For us to have to argue the conclusions of the 15 decision, I think we have to argue it with the decision 16 maker who is not a part of the panel. And the recent last 17 minute change of the language precluded Intervenor's 18 counsel from adequately preparing to cross examine these !
19 witnesses on the conclusion of that decision or even (
20 seeking to strike as to what conclusions in the decision 21 are relevant or not relevant or are part of the factual 22 basis and not part of the factual basis.
23 And we therefore believe that the changes ;
24 constitute prejudice and that having this question and
() 25 answer -- should be stricken.
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2634 1 MR. BLAKE: The copy that we received earlier 2 distributed was exactly the language as the witnesses have U adopted. The best of my information, there's no recent 3
4 change in that regard.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, it's not the one I 6 was given.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Judge Murphy showed me the 8 December 28th filing which did have that language.
9 MR. BLAKE: Correct, mine as well.
10 MR. BARTH: This should constitute no 11 surprise, Your Honor, which is basically what Mr. Kohn's 12 arguing. This was attached to our response to the 13 Licensee's motion for summary disposition some months ago 14 -- the Director's Decision. He was well informed that at 15 that time, we had no problem with the Director's Decision.
16 And I would point out that the commission did 17 not vacate the decision in relation to the illegal license 18 transfer. They took no position upon it. It simply said 19 that they would defer to Your Honors to hear this matter 20 more fully.
21 MR. BLAKE: Judge Bloch, I'm a little confused i
22 by the argument. I don't see this as some use of this as 23 precedential -- precedential value or legal value. I ,
24 think in the course of the crose it will become apparent O 25 if it'e not e1 reedy eggerene from their gref11ed, thee NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCR!BERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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~
2635 !
1 these were the gentlemen that worked on this topic and- !
j t
2 came up'with the staff's views as represented by that
() ' 3 decision. i 4 What the commission said was, this ought have j i
5 no legal value at this point. We'll wait until the Board l 6 .has completed its work. It doesn't mean that the views of ;
)
7 the individuals who worked on it or came to the' s
8 conclusions that are stated in it have been erased i 9 somehow.
10 They can still say those were my views then, [
11 and as they now say in the last question, and we've been-12 involved in this process ever since -- Mr. Hood sat -!
13 through all the depositions, for example -- and we haven't f
-O 14 changed or views. That seems to me to be quite an 1
15 efficient way for the staff to have presented its views I l
16 through this panel. ;
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The motion to strike is !
i 18 denied, and the major concern I have is that I know that' [
19 all of the arguments in the Director's Decision to the i 20' extent that they're still relevant will be at least f 21 briefed by the staff. If the conclusions in the l 22 Director's Decision are wrong, I think you're going to l l
23 have to demonstrate why they're wrong. ,
24 And I agree also with Mr. Blake that it's net ,
i
() 25 precedent. But that doesn't mean the arguments aren't f i
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2636 1 going to be presented to us in this case. And the
- x. 2 witnesses are merely exposing their way of thinking about 3 this matter.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: What I'm actually saying, 5 Your Honor, is not that staff can't raise the arguments, 6 but by relying on a document which would on its own weight 7 be given more credence and authority simply because of the 8 author who is not present before us, the staff had the 9 responsibility of setting out in detail what facts and 10 findings it wanted to conclude rather than requiring 11 Intervenor to read through a lengthy document and try to 12 call what -- and read staff's mind as to what they're 13 ultimately going to argue.
14 And that's the prejudice that we're facing. I 15 don't think that extra step and hurdle was proper for 16 Intervenor to go through. When we filed our prefiled 17 testimony, we had to be very precise as to what we were 10 putting in as best we could. And we think that staff has 19 the resources to actually set forth in question and answer 20 form how they came to the conclusions.
21 Now the only thing we have are conclusions 22 without --
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But they're here as 24 witnesses, and you'll get to ask it. So it's denied O 25 egein. And we'11 continue with the witneeeee.
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l 2637 ;
i 1
1 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: We have no further motions 2 to strike.
'^'
3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Thank you. Mr. Barth, have 4 you finished with these witnesses?
5 MR. BARTH: I have, Your Honor. I think it i
6 would be appropriate for the witnesses to be subject to 7 cross examination by the licensing board and the parties.
8 Thank you. ,
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn? ,
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor.
11 CROSS EKAMINATION 12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, you are familiar 13 with -- well, let me ask you. Have you had the 14 opportunity to read Mr. Dan Smith's trial testimony?
15 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes, I've been provided copies 16 of various statements made by Dan Smith.
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And when is the first time 18 you read that testimony?
19 WITNESS ROGGE: Probably December of '94.
20 MR. MICFAEL KOHN: And did you agree with Mr.
21 Smith's -- the way Mr. Smith characterized your meeting?
22 WITNESS ROGGE: No, I do not.
23 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you ha've independent 24 recollection of those events?
() 25 WITNESS ROGGE: I remember the encounter but NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2638 1 not the discussions.
7_
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. So if Mr. Smith has U 3 a recollection of what the discussions were, you would not 4 disagree with his recollection?
5 MR. BARTH: That mischaracterizes his 6 testimony. It would be a bit easier if we asked these 7 direct questions rather than mischaracterizing testimony.
8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think that would be 9 preferable. Can you ask specific things they might agree 10 or disagree with?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, if 1. understand it, 12 you have no current recollection of the discussions?
13 WITNESS ROGGE: Correct.
O 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you have any reason to 15 challenge Mr. Smith's independent recollection of the 16 discussions?
17 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And what is your basis for 19 challenging Mr. Smith's independent recollection of the 20 discussions?
21 MR. BARTH: Objection, that mischaracterizes 22 the record. He has not challenged it. He has a different 23 view himself. He's testified to that. You cannot say Mr.
24 Smith --
O 2s eOARo EXAM 1NAT10n NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANC THANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2639 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I understood what the 2 question -- in light of the answer, so please explain why (v3 3 you find the problem with Mr. Smith?
4 WITNESS ROGGE: Okay, Mr. Smith makes 5 basically two statements that I could determine. One was 6 that the NRC management attesting to me did not know what 7 the -- who was in control at Vogtle, which is untrue and i
8 never existed, to my knowledge. Second, he spoke about a 9 -- putting a resident inspector in the Birmingham office 10 which is also untrue. And to my knowledge, was never 11 considered or ever thought of.
12 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is it possible that you 14 told that to Mr. Smith?
15 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't believe so.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, Mr. Rogge, is it true 17 that you don't agree with 75% of the resolutions of 10 matters brought to your attention while you were at Plant 19 Vogtle?
20 MR. BARTH: Objection, there's no foundation 21 for this. There are no facts of evidence which show any 22 kind of remote foundation for this, Your Honor. I 23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: You might just want to l 24 distribute the basis to the counsel as you ask the
() 25 question. You don't have to show the witness.
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H 2640 1 MR. BARTH: If it is from a --
2 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Why don't you wait to see 0 3 what it is? You may not have anything to distribute. >
4 Counsel's argument should not be audible to the witnesses.
s I'd note that the licensing board hasn't seen the 6 material. It would be easier for us to rule if we saw it, 7 but it may not be a problem between the parties. Mr.
8 Kohn, you can have this back.
9 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, as Mr. Withrow did 10 extensively the other day, I would request that the --
11 lines 19 --
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Wait, you can have things 13 inserted into the record later, but I think the question's 14 fair, don't you think?
1s MR. BARTH: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I don't know what this i
17 document is. It does substantiate what the question is 18 going to be, but I don't have any idea what the document 19 was.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, let me restate 21 the question because there's been some time, and make sure 22 everyone understands what the question and answer is. Is i 23 it true that if you went back and looked at the boards and 24 issues you were involved with at Plant Vogtle, you would O 2s dieegree with 7s -- you wou1d dieegree vs of the time ee NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2641 1 the way --
2 MR. BARTH: Again, objection. I have now read 3 the paper from which Mr. Kohn is reading. It 4 4 misrepresents this, Your Honor. It says about 75%. Small 5 difference, we ought to be precise.
6 WITNESS ROGGE: I'm not sure I understand the 7 question ,au're asking. You asked me to look at my 8 inspection reports and determine if I disagreed with 9 myself about 75% of the time?
10 BOARD EXAMINATION 11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: No, Mr. Rogge, though I would 12 assume that in the course of your work at Georgia Power, 13 that issues arose that you had to resolve, is that O 14 correct?
15 WITNESS ROGGE: Correct.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) -
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And in the resolution of 18 those issues -- final resolutions, would you say you were 19 dissatisfied 75% of the time?
20 WITNESS ROGGE: No.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Would you say it was not to I 22 your full satisfaction 75% of the time?
23 WITNESS ROGGE: No , I don't think so.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Would you say that really, 25 once the big boys got involved, it really didn't matter to NEAL R. GROSS i COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
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2642 1 you? Referring to the NRC big' boys?
2 . WITNESS ROGGE: No. i 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: How about referring.to the !
4 Georgia Power big boys? :
5 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't know what that means.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I'm going to show you a {.
7 document provided to me by Georgia Power Company. It is i
8- their version of a transcript of Mr. Mosbaugh's tape i
9 number 172 dated June 19, 1990 -- look here. You're l 10 identified as speaking.
11 WITNESS ROGGE: Okay. Can I look at other
- 12 things besides what you've got highlighted?
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Certainly, sir.
O 14 MR. BARTH: Mr. Rogge, will you speak up? You i
15 have the reporter -- f 16 WITNESS ROGGE: I just asked if I could look 17 at other things to try and figure out what this is about.
18 BOARD EXAMINATION 19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Rogge, you could help the 20 Board as you review that in deciding what needs to be in s 21 the record to understand the context in which things were I
22 said.
23 WITNESS ROGGE: As I'm reading this, the i 24 context that comes to mind is that I had returned to the
) 25 site after being in the EDO's office, and I was called NEAL R. GFK}SS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSChlBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2643 1 over to a meeting with Mr. George Bockhold and Mr. Allen 2 Mosbaugh. And the meeting -- it was a very strange
(~3 3 meeting in my opinion, because it was the first time I 4 ever sat down at a meeting where it sounded to me like 5 allegations were being transcribed from Allen to Mr. -- or 6 to Mr. Bockhold. Following that meeting, --
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: What do you mean transcribed?
8 WITNESS ROGGE: Well, it was a strange 9 meeting. Normally, I would expect to go to a meeting and 10 hear what the utility is doing about something or what the 11 corrective is. Instead, it was a meeting where Mr.
12 Bockhold kept asking Allen is there anything else, are 13 there any other concerns. I had been away from the site 14 at the time for a long period of time.
15 Mr. Mosbaugh came after that meeting over to 16 my office and attempted to engage me in conversation to 17 bring me up to speed as to what was going on. There's 18 some inaudible phrases here. My reaction at the time was 19 that he was making allegations, and I tried to say -- he 20 wanted confidentiality -- I didn't read this here. ,
21 But he asked for confidentiality, that's a 22 special buzzword in our allegation terminology that you 23 have to enter into a contract. I see that I was 24 mentioning that here. And at the time -- well, we went 25 through this discussion. I don't -- I didn't think it led NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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2644 1 to anythin' where he was trying to say something.
2 But at the same time, I was writing down my (u,,l 3 observations to send to my management of the meeting I had 4 had with Mr. Bockhold and Mr. Mosbaugh because it was --
5 as I said, kind of strange that someone at that high a 6 management level would be having a conversation with f 7 George that way.
8 But, upon following this meeting and sending 9 in that letter, I was informed that Mr. Mosbaugh was a 10 confidential witness and he should not have been talking 11 to me because he was supposed to be in communication with 12 the allegation people. And that was the extent. So I was 13 reading to see -- and it appears to be this is the O 14 conversation that he came by in that office at that time.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: That doesn't yet help me to 16 understand the passage that you are being asked about --
17 about dissatisfaction with approximately 75% of something.
18 WITNESS ROGGE: Right. I hadn't gotten to 19 that yet because I was reading this note. I'm not sure 20 that's what it is. But if I get ahead or behind without 21 reading it, I'm sorry. But normally, in the work of 22 inspection, events happen and I question everything. And 23 I don't agree necessarily with everything they're saying ;
24 immediately.
25 I talk to reactor operators, I talk to the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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r 2665 1 shift supervisor, I talk to management. And it all has to 2 go through a corrective action process, and they all have 3 to get together, and they all have to decide what really 4 happened. And from my experience, you need to challenge 5 and' disagree with everything in order to find out what .
6 really happened.
7 Usually,'I think if what it's referring to 8 when the big boys get there -- and I haven't gotten to 9 that to see what I might have been saying or how I said it 10 -- but that's what I think I'm referring to. That 11 normally you would have great teams of people come 12 together and start taking statements and testimony of who 13 saw what and who did what, and trying to put it into a 14 cohesive story.
15 And I think that's what it's referring to if I 16 said I disagree with 75% of everything when my final 17 conclusions appear in the inspection reports as to what I ,
18 determine they did. And that's the record that I would 19 stand by. So in the role that I'm in, if I don't' ;
20 disagree, then I don't know who would. !
t 21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The comment referred to the 22 final resolutions -- that you were dissatisfied with 23 those. Is that true? 1
?
24 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't think that. That is !
f
( 25 really a true statement if I said it. I'm not sure what NEAL R. GROSS :
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2646 i
i final is final in this. I haven't gotten to that phrase 2 yet.
C_ 3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, why don't you just take '
4 a look at it, because we would like you to just comment on 5 that.
6 WITNESS ROGGE: Okay. I've read to the point 7 on page 53 where I'm talking about if I went back to i 8 report every issue that I ever had here at Vogtle, that I 9 have a resolution on it to my satisfaction I'd probably 10 come up with no on about 75% of it. I believe all this is 11 insignificant issues. The >'rtant ones are always 12 elevated and brought up and put into inspection reports.
13 There are many things that are decided in a O 14 nuclear plant everyday, and I'm not in a position to run 15 their plant. And I may not agree how they would write a 16 memo or do something, but it's not really my business to 17 be doing that. That's the light I think this is talking 18 about. Was there another question? Page 53?
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Fifty-three and 54.
20 WITNESS ROGGE: That's where I said I don't -- t 21 but that doesn't mean I have a problem with it.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Do you have another question, 23 Mr. Kohn, because I think the answer to the question you 24 asked.
25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is there any objection to NEAL R. GRObS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE IS'.AND AVENUE. N W.
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r-
~
)
2647 1 binding pages 53 and 54 into the record?
2 MR. BARTH: I think that 55 should go in as 3 well, Your Honor, having looked at it in order to give an 4 adequate context to what was said then.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No objection, Your Honor.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: So 53 through 55 may be bound 7 into the record. And mechanically, when will you 8 accomplish getting a copy to the reporter?
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I had a copy of 10 53 and 54. I didn't make one of 55. So we can do that 11 during the break.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: So the next break you'll make 13 it available?
14 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, do you recall 16 discussing with Mr. Mosbaugh about the Section 210 17 proceedings? What their purpose is and -- do you remember 18 having those discussions with him?
19 WITNESS ROGGE: No.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you remember -- Mr.
21 Rogge, I'm going to show you a document marked as a Joint 22 Stipulation which is the April 27, 1989 memorandum from ,
23 Mr. Hobby. I believe it's Joint Stipulation 34.
24 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Thirty-three?
() 25 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Thirty-four he said.
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t e i L;. >
s~ <
1 ,
1
( 1 2-3 !
4 ,
l 5 :
P i
6 7 :
8-9 10 Transcript of excerpt of Audiotape No.
11 172, transcribed by Maribeth J. Williams, Certified 12 Court Reporter and Notary Public. I 13 i 14 15 '
16 17 18 19 i
20 21 22 23 BROWN REPORTING, INC.
24 1100 SPRING STREET, SUITE 750 :
ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309 l 125 (404) 876-8979 0
92 PRCUECT 057103
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51
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1 more significant, you know, I would be inclined to 2 write down. Things that are more significant than 3
that, I'd raise these issues as far as a forum like 4 PRB or whatever. And where I've gone through every 5
channel on site up to including my boss and still 6
can't get satisfaction, then I go to the next step, 7
which is the quality concerns program. And if I 8
don't find satisfaction in that, I will go to the 9
next step above that; and that's the process. And 10 that is our site's policy and our site's management 11 philosophy; and I think it's the law, also.
12 JOHN ROGGE: (Inaudible) one way or 13 another.
\ 14 A.L. MOSBAUGH: Well, the law states that 15 if I'm aware of those things and feel those things, 16 it states that I have an obligation.
17 JOHN ROGGE: It certainly does.
18 A.L. MOSBAUGH: It also states that I cn 19 be liable f o v. not bringing it up.
20 JOHN ROGGE: (Inaudible) contract. Yeah, 21 that's important. (Inaudible) get this thing of 22 there being a process that there may be (inaudible) 23 other issues out there that. You strike me that you 24 have been going through this process or getting 25 resolutions or elevating it to the next level. You s
'N 92 PROJECT 057153
e
.i, 52 1 left that meeting with the idea that, gee, I really r-]x\- l 2 don't know if all of the things I've raised have
/ 3 been adequately resolved to my satisfaction I 4 (inaudible) taking some period of time and go figure 5 it out.
6 A.L. MOSBAUGH: You know, all I can say 7 is there's a couple of things that have come up 8 recently that I'm working on.
9 JOHN ROGGE: Little things or --
10 A.L. MOSBAUGH: Yeah.
11 JOHN ROGGE: (Inaudible.)
12 A.L. MOSBAUGH: There are new things that 13 have come up that I'm working on.
[) 14 JOHN ROGGE: (Inaudible.) Two years.
s_-
15 A.L. MOSBAUGH: There --
you know, there 16 are some -- and I have --
I'm not, you know, I'm not 17 through the process. You know, you try to follow-up 18 on everything as it comes up and so forth but, you 19 know, s ome t irae s you are too busy for that and you're 20 not sure. But I, you know, I am --
it's not my 21 policy, my practice, or intent to dredge up issues 22 that are three and four years old.
23 JOHN ROGGE: I'm just kind of curious if 24 there are any.
25 A.L. MOSBAUGH: You know, it's not my --
O 92 PRalECT 057154 i
i 1
. .. .a
s i se 53 ;
I
/"
(_)N 1 it's not my practice to do that. You know, and, you i 2 know, I'd say most of the issues that I~have would !
3 certainly have occurred within the last year or so, 4 you know; but I mean, if somebody -- if somebody-5 starts pressing me, you know, like, you know, George !
6 did and was the purpose for holding that meeting to 7 say, well, lay down what --
lay down everything that 8 you are worried about, I'm going to be inclined to j i
9 be a little bit evasive in leaving myself some 10 maneuvering room and not just make an absolute !
11 statement that, yes, this is everything that I've 12 ever been worried about in my whole life, you know.
i
- 13. You know, I'm just going to be inclined to be a .
t C:)- 14 little bit -- leave myself a little bit of I 15 flexibility, you know, because somebody's trying to 16 pin me down.
17 JOHN ROGGE: A wrestling match. !
18 A.L. MOSBAUGH: You know, I mean --
i 19 JOHN ROGGE: Well, that's --
I don't f 20 know. All I was trying to look for is just, you .
t 21 know, if I went back to report every issue that I ,
, t 22 had ever had here at Vogtle, did I have resolution !
23 on it to my satisfaction? I would probably come up I 24 with a no on about 75 percent of it. I never liked l 25 the way it came out.
o 92 PROJECT 057155 t
\__
- , ,3 54 !
h-L 1 A.L. MOSBAUGH: Yeah.
r 2 JOHN ROGGE:
e.
But that'doesn't mean I have
'3 a problem with it.
4 A.L. MOSBAUGH: Right.
5 JOHN ROGGE: And because I really don't, 6 you know, care once the big boys run with it and 7 they (inaudible) with themselves, that's fine with '
8 me.
9 A.L. MOSBAUGH: Yeah.
10 JOHN ROGGE: But there is a few that --
11 probably about one that if I could go back, two, if 12 I could change things, thought I could (inaudible).
t 13 A.L. MOSBAUGH: i Let me say another thing 14 about that, because I think the whole thing's gone ;
15 over the evolutionary process, you know. i You have 16 things you remember that occurred, you know, you may r l
17 have had a concern about it at the time, an 18 explanation may have been given to.you, it may ..avc 19 been handled in a certain way. !
t 20 JOHN ROGGE: You may have thought it was-21 _right, then.
I 22 A.L. MOSBAUGH: You may have thought it 23 was right, then; but, okay. And I've done that,
.1 24 okay. You know, you read --
you know; you read Part 25 21 and the NUREG through for the second time, okay.
WECT 057156 i
2648 1 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Have you had the 2 opportunity to review this document prior to today?
O. 3 WITNESS ROGGE: No. .
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: You have not reviewed this 5 dosament prior to today? ,
G WITNESS ROGGE: I don't recognize this t 7 document.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Did anyone tell you that 9 Mr. Hobby had written a confidential memorandum to Georgia 10 Power Company memorializing Mr. Hobby's communication with 11 Mr. Dan Smith about what Mr. Smith believed you had told 12 him?
13 WITNESS ROGGE: I saw that in some of the 14 material that I had read.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: You saw reference to it?
16 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: But you did not actually 18 see the document?
19 WITNESS ROGGE: Right. Is this the document? ;
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, it is. I'm going to 21 call your attention to page seven.
22 MR. BARTH: Mr. Kohn, page seven of what?
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Exhibit 34 to the '
24 stipulation, is that correct?
25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Correct, and we'll be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W. ,
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2649 1 looking at the paragraph beginning a significant concern 2 that a lot of people have is who does Mr. Mcdonald work
(,,i 3 for and going on to the following paragraph, Oglethorpe is 4 very concerned about this issue and they feel NRC is 5 concerned that region two NRC employees suggested to 6 Oglethorpe that NRC was so concerned that they might seek 7 to put a resident inspector in Birmingham to see what was 8 going on.
9 Now, earlier you testified that you disagreed 10 with Mr. Smith's statements -- his testimony because Mr.
11 Smith's response made reference to who was in charge of 12 Plant Vogtle. Well, if it was rather to the extent who 13 did Mr. Mcdonald report to, what was happening in the 14 Birmingham offices, forget Plant Vogtle. Let's go to the 15 highest level. Did you have a concern at any time as to 16 what was happening over in Vogtle? Did it ever seem a 17 little hazy to you?
18 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, I object to the long 19 speeches in front of thia -- the question which confused 20 the issue. If he asked the question directly did you have 21 concerns regarding who was running the plant, that's fine.
22 But these long speeches and diatribes really are long in 23 the record by lawyers. Question and answer will get this 24 faster unless he needs a background to explain his
() 25 question.
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q 2650
~
- ,. 1 I object and move you to strike his speech 2 before the question.
O 3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Let him try the question 4 again, and if it's necessary to a question you may say it'
- 5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, you earlier 6 indicated that Mr. Smith's trial testimony in the Hobby i
proceeding which you had the opportunity to review made 7
8 reference to who was in charge of Plant Vogtle. I 9 understand and I believe there is -- it's contested that !
10 the actual managers at Plant Vogtle and who was in charge i 11 of Plant Vogtle were Georgia Power.
12 Taking that aside, I want you only to focus on ,
i 13 what is occurring in Birmingham. Did you ever have a f O 14 concern whether things got a little hazy as to the 15 reporting relationship in' Birmingham?-
16 MR. BARTH: I object, Your Honor. There's no 17 foundation that he knows anything about what happened in 18 Birmingham. I'm concerned for the record. If he'd lay a 19 foundation -- were you in Birmingham, did you_ observe l l
20 these people, what did you find -- .
1 21 BOARD EXAMINATION I 22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question is basically !
i 23 sound Did you have any reason to believe that there was i 24 any problem with the reporting relationships in .
25 Birmingham?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W. 7 (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON, O C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 j
p 2651 l
1 ' WITNESS ROGGE: No, I didn't. 'l 2 MR. BARTH: If the questions are more on the '
.() 3 way Your HorJr answered them, I will be more quiet.
4 . CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I asked it, I didn't answer 5 it.
6 EMR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now you said any reason to 7 be concerned. My question is, did it ever cross your mind 8 that with the new move, things may be a little hazy as to-V 9 what was happening in Birmingham? I'm not asking whether i
10 it was true or not, I'm asking did that thought ever cross i
11 your mind?
12 MR. BARTH: That's been asked by the Board -!
13 Chairman and answered by the witness. j
() 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, it hasn't been asked in 15 that form. Did you ever have the thought? !
16 WITNESS ROGGE: Well, I don't know what hazy i
17 would refer to, but I was party to the inspection in
't' 18 December of '88 in order to go.look and review the 19 corporate office. In that light, you go do the inspection ,
20 to find out what's going on. I could assume that that 21 could be considered to be hazy because you had never been 22 there before. ;
23 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) i 24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And other than the December ;
( 25 '88 inspection, had you had the opportunity to visit the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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. . _ - .a .- - , , . ,- . .:
2652 1 Birmingham offices?
2 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
[t 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: When was the next time you 4 visited?
5 WITNESS ROGGE: It was -- I think July --
6 there was a follow up visit to the Birmingham office which 7 got summarized in meeting notes of July 25th -- July 25, 8 1989 meeting.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, when you did your --
10 when the December inspection occurred, December '88, was 11 there -- wasn't the inspection limited to Mr. Mcdonald and 12 below?
13 WITNESS ROGGE: I'll say no because I 14 participated in interviews with Mr. Mcdonald. Yes, it 15 was. Mr. Mcdonald and below.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And isn't it true that the {
17 inspection report only states the reporting relationship 18 starting with Mr. Mcdonald and going below?
19 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
20 MR. MICHAEL '.OHN: And isn't it true that all 21 the materials given to the NRC during the course of that l 22 inspection report never included an organization chart 23 above Mr. Mcdonald?
24 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
( 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So isn't it true that the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2653 1 inspection of December 1988 never resolved or considered 2 reporting relationships above Mr. Mcdonald?
- 3
%,)
3 WITNESS ROGGE: I'd say yes.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, --
5 WITNESS ROGGE: From my perspective, it's --
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And isn't it true that 7 there was no inspection done of the Atlanta corporate 8 office?
9 WITNESS ROGGE: When unit 1 went through a 10 licensing, there was a similar inspection of the Atlanta 11 office.
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And when was that done?
13 WITNESS ROGGE: Well, that had to been in 14 '86/'87 time frame.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So after Mr. Mcdonald 16 joined Georgia Power Company, is it true that there was 17 never an inspection of Georgia Power's Atlanta offices?
18 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't know the complete 19 history, but I don't think so.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: You have no knowledge of 21 one?
22 WITNESS ROGGE: Right.
23 BOARD EXAMINATION l
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Rogge, wouldn't you be
) 25 surprised if there had been an inspection of Atlanta and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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., __- . . _ .-. _ .. _.m_ . . . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . . _ . - _ _ . _ . _ . . . _ _ . .
2654 "g
l' you weren't informed of it? !
2 WITNESS ROGGE: - Yes, there was - -my opinion 1
()y '
3 is there's nothing in Atlanta to go'look at. I'd be !
i 4 surprised if anybody went there. l l
5 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) !
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge -- excuse me, Mr. j i
7 Hood. I call your attention t'o page ten of the testimony. I 8' You indicate that on -- I may be looking at the wrong i
page.
9 Page nine, excuse me, question ten. You indicate 10 on September 28, 1994, you and Mr. Allenspach visited the }
11 Vogtle site, is that correct? :
12 WITNESS HOOD: That is correct. I 13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And on September 29, you (I) 14 visited corporate headquarters, is that correct? j I
15 WITNESS HOOD: Correct, in Birmingham, j 16 Alabama. l 17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And you did not visit the !
I 18 Atlanta offices, isn't that correct? ;
[
19 WITNESS HOOD: That is correct. l t
i 20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And isn't it correct you !
t 21 never took any actions to -- do you know who the president ;
i
.22 or CEO of Georgia Power was in September of 1994? !
23 WITNESS HOOD: It was Mr. A.W. Dahlberg. You !
24 asked me the president of GPC? .
-l
( 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. f NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W. i (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
2655 1 WITNESS HOOD: Dahlberg.
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Are you sure it wasn't Mr.
'. m.
U 3 Franklin?
e 4 WITNESS HOOD: This was September of -- I'm 5 sorry, I'm thinking 1990. Was your question 1994?
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: 1994 when you did your 7 inspection.
8 WITNESS HOOD: I'm sorry, I answered the wrong 9 question. Yes, it was Mr. Franklin.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Did you discuss with Mr.
11 Franklin how often he had communications with Mr.
12 Mcdonald? Well, let me rephrase that, how often he had 13 communications with the Chief Executive Officer over O
k/ 14 Nuclear?
15 MR. BARTH: I object to the question. There's 16 no foundation for it. Mr. Kohn, you're going to have to 17 ask did you meet with Mr. Franklin, did you talk to Mr.
18 Franklin, then you lead up and then you ask the question.
19 You just can't start at home plate. There's no foundation 20 for this, Your Honor. It assumes facts not in evidence.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: These are sophisticated 22 witnesses, and I would expect that if he hadn't spoken to 23 Mr. Franklin he'd say that. I don't think we've got a 24 question of leading someone into a situation that doesn't
() 25 exist. So there's some latitude allowed with these NEAL R. GROSS COURT PEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2656 1 witnesses. If some of the premises of the questions are 2 false, just let us know.
O V 3 WITNESS HOOD: I do not recall any such 4 discussion.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, you have no knowledge 6 how often Georgia Power's nuclear operations was in 7 contact with its president, is that correct?
8 WITNESS HOOD: How often?
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
l 10 WITNESS HOOD: No, I do not have any idea how 11 often that would have occurred.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And you have no knowledge 13 from the day Mr. Mcdonald entered Georgia Power's nuclear f f
k 14 operations until today the frequency and number of i
15 communications to and from the CEO or president of Georgia '
16 Power from its nuclear operations in Birmingham, isn't .
17 that true?
l 18 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, that's true. i l
19 BOARD EXAMINATION ,
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Are those 21 communications a matter of licensed activity? Do you ,
22 normally inspect those sort of communications? ,
23 WITNESS HOOD: No, sir. Normally they would 24 not be, and I would -- I don't believe that I would be ,
l 25 expected to know of communications that one would expect NEAL R. GROSS 1 I
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2657 1 at that level. And I might explain just a little further.
2 In our review, we focus a nuclear safety, that 3 is our mission. I may exclude environmentally some other 4 things we care about, but our focus is nuclear safety.
5 And our focus is where nuclear safety has its immediate 6 and greatest impact. It tends to center on the nuclear 7 power plant itself and its immediate management.
8 And in our documentations and in the 9 instructions which guide us in our reviews which we call 10 Standard Review Plans, the department is focused on that 11 level where the safety is most prominent. You can well 12 imagine the guy at the switch or the guy at the controls 13 is the level where there is a very clear safety impact.
14 And obviudsly, the directions that he receives 15 --
16 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: If the 17 Standard Review Plan doesn't tell you to do it, I 18 understand why you didn't do it.
19 WITNESS HOOD: Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'd like to ask a few 21 clarifying questions about the staff's position on this.
22 And any of the staff members -- whoever thinks they're 23 best qualified can answer. Do you know whether or not the 24 inspection that you perform is adequate to determine
() 25 whether there has been an illegal transfer of an operating NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCP'BERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON D C. 20005 (202) 2344433 l
2658 1 license?
j 2 WITNESS HOOD: I would like to comment on that p
V 3 unless Mr. Allenspach can comment. It largely depends on t
4 where the focus of the question lies. At the core of the 5 question, I believe, is the impact -- what.is the impact 6 of all of this on safety which after all is really the 7 meaning behind the license is to assure safety.
8 At the level that we tend to focus, I feel 9 confident that it does. There is much said in this 10 hearing about the very highest of levels and the control 11 at that level. From my regulatory perspective, if you 12 imagine this, it goes to a filter and it says -- it keeps 13 saying what is the significance -- what in terms of safety 14 if all of the discussions that we're hearing.
15 And when I get at those levels above Mr.
16 Mcdonald, that is a very hard question to distinguish at 17 times. If I hear discussions that are going on about 18 budgets and matters of that type, I keep asking myself 1 19 what does this mean to safety? It's quite' remote. Now, 20 I'm not a naive person. I realize that there is an impact 21 on the funds -- the performance of a plant and having the ,
22 proper funds to do that. !
23 But you live in a real world. There is not 24 infinite pot to draw from. If what money -- if a utility
() 25 is part of a holding company, of course there's some type NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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~l
.h S & ,
i:: 2659 !
1 of influence that a holding company is going to exert over i l
2 a nuclear utility. .!
And I ask myself,.well'is that so bad?
3 Is it 4- the determination of the amount or is it the internal ;
5 control or is it the determination of how funds are )
6 allocated within that level that I care about.- Where are f l
7 'those decisions made? That's where the impact on safety l
- 8. comes. It's not that upper level where the total amount 9 of money that can be allotted for a utility. l t
i 10 It's at the lower levels -- the element of 11 control that I care about occurs at the lower level where f i
1 12 the distribution of a given amount of money is to be {
t i
. 13 decided -- how those distributions are to occur. l O 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Allenspach wanted to l i
15 comment too? !
16 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Well, just briefly I'd 17 like'you to repeat your question because I'd like to look l 18 at the specific context of your question. f 19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question I asked was I
20 whether the inspection is adequate to determine whether or j 21 not there had been an illegal transfer of the license for 9
~
22 Georgia Power? I asked do you know whether it's adequate? l I
23 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I guess my view would be j 24 that -- in that specific context, listening to everything ;
-O 25 here, chee in end of itee1f, thet egecific inegection NEAL R. GROSS :
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2660 l
1 would not allow us to d. raw that conclusion.
2 CHAIRMAN BLOC'H: So I must say I applaud the-rM i'/
3 emphasis on safety because that's what the staff about, 4 but I still have these other questions about transfer. Do l 5 you know who owns the license for the Georgia Power plant?
6 WITNESS HOOD: The licensee is Georgia Power 7 Company.
t' 8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And if Georgia Power Company 9 were acquired by another company without the NRC being 10 told, would that be illegal? ,
11 WITNESS HOOD: That would -- it would be 12 inconsistent with the act, yes, sir.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And would it have any effect 14 on safety necessarily?
15 WITNESS HOOD: Well, you'd be in a 16 questionable situation with respect to safety.
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well why?
18 WITNESS HOOD: I have no doubt that would be 19 of great concern to us.
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I don't see how it would 21 impact safety that someone else buys the plant. The leave 22 the same operating people in, Mr. Mcdonald still runs the 23 plant and all those other people are the same. If you go 24 to the site, they're doing the same things. Why does it
/~T
(_) 25 matter for safety whether another company buys the plant? l NEAL R. GROSS ,
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2661 1 WITNESS HOOD: Safety is something that you 2 determine in advance. You don't determine it after the U,
3 fact. That implies that you've done some type of review i
4 beforehand and you have some understanding and have a 5 basis for prediction and what's going to. happen before it 6 happens.
f 7 If you are under the control of an element 8 that you have no knowledge of and you have no basis for ,
9 any kind of assurance of safety -- levels now, I 10 understand what you're saying is that the true focus of 11 safety is more immediate at various levels. That does not 12 mean there is not an influence at those upper levels. My 13 comment was directed at the iocus of our review, and we 14 tend to focus where we gr,c the most bang for.the buck.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, now we talked about a 16 transfer of the ownersoip cf Georgia Power. Would it 17 matter to you if there were instead a transfer of who were 18 actually exercising control over the office of the 19 president of Georgia Power? ,
20 WITNESS HOOD: There would be an impact on .
21 safety, but that's a fact. It would not be nearly so ;
22 great as it could be that -- misunderstanding occurred at 23 a lower level.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I don't even know if it would
) 25 have an impact on safety. My concern is that it might be .
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2662 1 an ill- transfer of the license. It may have no effect 2 on saiety. The question is whether it matters who l 3 controls the Chief Executive's Office of Georgia Power?
4 Do you know whether or not Mr. Farley has such 5 influence that he might be said to be controlling the 6 office of the chief executive of Gecrgia Power --
7 practically, not on paper, but practically? Excuse me, in 8 the time period we're talking about.
9 WITNESE HOOD: I'm not sure I understand the 10 question. Are you asking me to acknowledge that that's a 11 possibility?
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: No , I'm asking to your 13 knowledge whether or not it matters. Does it matter ,
.] 14 whether he controls the -- whether he -- let's back up a 15 bit. Do you understand that leaders sometimes exercise 16 authority informally rather than formally?
17 WITNESS HOOD: Yes. :
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And that there might be 19 leaders who could lift a pinky and everybody around would 20 follow what they do? I don't know if that's true of Mr.
21 Parley, but I believe thera are some leaders that are like 22 that. Do you believe that?
t 23 WITNESS HOOD: I acknowledge that possibility, 24 yes, sir. j 25 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But do you know whether Mr.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
2663 1 Farley might be one of those people? Do you have any l 2 knowledge that would allow you to know whether he's one of
.f_y V !
3 those people? ;
i 1
4 WITNESS HOOD: Excuse me.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
6 WITNESS HOOD: I understand that Mr. .Farley is 7 a man of great influence. I understand his reputation 8 that he has earned over a long period of time within the 9 industry. It seems -- I think most people would agree t
10 with me when I say he is a very influential person. I'm i
11 not -- I do not believe that is the same as saying that 12 that means that people that are in charge with the -
13 operation of Vogtle succumb to that influence.
O 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But do you have any basis to 15 know whether or not they did? Because it seems to me 16 enough respect to follow these office or Dahlberg's 17 office.
18 WITNESS HOOD: Well, I feel that I do have a 19 basis.
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Please explain.
21 WITNESS HOOD: I deal with the people at the -
22 - what I'm referring to is the working level. Mr. McCoy's 23 level, at the Barney Beasley level. I visit the plant 24 fairly frequently. I see how they all are working, and I 25 draw from my own experience base. I attend their meetings NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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l 2664 .)
1" -- these. people.are not - .in my view, they are not !
i 2 drawing from some estimate or some -- I don't see. l 3 influence as people's decisions coming from outside that I ,
l 4 would care about. ,
5 It's operating in accordance with the ~!
6 organization as I understand it, as it was represented to i 7 me in the FSAR and that's what my opinion is in part based j i
8 on. It's my own observations and the observations of-my 1 i
9 colleagues.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Did you want to say j 11 something? ;
12 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have nothing to add, 13 sir. ;
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn? !
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor.
i 16 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) [
f 17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I'm going to ask the panel !
18 whether they have reviewed ANSI standard N18.7-1976 when- l I
19 reaching their conclusions in your testimony? ,
r i
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Which conclusion, Mr. Kohn? l 21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: For the final conclusion 22 that -- when then I think was -- the conclusions in the !
t 23 vacated Director's Decision.
24 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Mr. Kohn, do 25 you have a copy of this information for everyone?
NEAL R. GROSS [
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--.,=..._.,I
2665 l' MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Of the standard?
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Yes.
O. 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, I do. I might ask the 4 panel, have you seen or reviewed this standard ever?
5 Whoever feels comfortable answering, please do.
6 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I'm familiar with the 7 standard.
8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Who answered that?
9 WITNESS ROGGE: I'm also familiar with the 10 standard.
11 WITNESS HOOD: I have seen this before.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I'm going to call your 13 attention to a few things. First, on the first -- well, 14 the second photocopied page that you have in front of you, 15 is it true that this is a definition of the owner 16 organization on the right hand side -- it says owner 17 organization, the organization including the on site 18 operating organization which has overall legal, financial .
19 and technical responsibility for the operation of one or 20 more nuclear power plants?
21 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I'm there.
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Is it your 23 understanding that Georgia Power is going to have legal 24 and financial obligations with respect to Plant Vogtle O 25 before end efter the 11cenee 1e treneferred2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2666 1 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: They have it now, I don't 2 think we've really gotten into the issue of what they
,_T (v 3 would have after.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. You haven't reviewed 5 the -- or have you reviewed the contractual relationships 6 between SONOPCO and Georgia Power Company that are already 7 in place? Excuse me, between Southern Nuclear and Georgia 8 Power Company that are already in place with respect to 9 their operation of the facilities?
10 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I don't know specifically -
11 what contract you're referring to.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, let me ask a i
13 question. As I understand it, the reason Mr. Mosbaugh has 14 intervened in this proceeding is because the NRC is ready 15 tomorrow to grant Georgia Power its license, is that 16 correct? Excuse me, to grant Southern Nuclear the right ;
17 to operate the plant, correct?
18 WITNESS HOOD: That is not correct if you 19 literally mean tomorrow.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, in the near future.
21 But you've done all your research and homework and you're '
i 22 prepared to do that?
23 WITNESS HOOD: That decision is not yet 24 complete. ;
( 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: But you did it with Plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2667 1 Hatch,Lcorre'ct? l
. 2 WITNESS HOOD: No, we did not do it with
.A y'
3 respect.to Plant. Hatch. ;
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Now -- but what are 5 the contractual' relationships with respect to legal and .j 6- financial? Who bears the burden, Georgia Power or- ,
1 7 Southern Nuclear? r 8 MR. BARTH: Can we have just a slight pause-9 before the answer-to the question, Your Honor? ,
10 MR. BLAKE: Was the question who bears the 11 burden? ,
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Let me-rephrase the !
13 ' question, it was poorly worded. What is the NRC's ,
14 understanding of who's going to have the legal and 15 financial burden should there be an accident at Plant ,
16 Vogtle after the license is transferred? Will Georgia f Power have those burdens amongst others? ;
17 18 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, this man is not i
19 qualified on Price Anderson -- !
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think that the question is i 21 a very difficult one given the structure of this holding !
22 company. I think counsel knows that Georgia Power has no ,
i 23 stockholders. ;
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It has assets, Your Honor, !
t O 25 eed thee e the eueetion. oo you know if Georgie Power . !
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- . . . _ . . _ _ . _ _ _ -_ - - . -. . . - - _ - 2
2668 1 assets would be liable in the result -- should an accident
,_ 2 occur at' Plant Vogtle?
(_/ 3 MR. BARTH: Again, Your Honor, this calls for t
4 legal conclusion.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think the witness is not an ,
6 expert in that subject.
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor. I'd 8 call your attention -- well, are you aware of whether 9 Georgia Power has presented to the NRC any contractual 10 arrangements explaining who bears the legal and financial 11 burden should a mishap occur at Plant Vogtle?
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question is just do you 13 know if they presented documents about that to the NRC?
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
15 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I know of none.
16 WITNESS HOOD: I'm not sure of my answer here, 17 but I believe that there has been information presented to 18 the staff and has reviewed this part of the application, 19 but I'm not certain of that.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And do you recollect --
21 BOARD EXAMINATION 22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, but that would be after 23 the transfer, I assume. j 24 WITNESS HOOD: The focus would be for Phase I
( 25 III of this transfer, right.
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2669 ;
1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And the question is, has 2 anything been presented prior to the transfer -- about
' L,)
3 financial relationships prior to the transfer?
4 MR. BLAKE: That's not the question, Your 5 Honor. That's what bothers me. Mr. Kohn is asking about 6 accident -- you're talking about financial relationships.
7 We did take a look, as I pointed out to you, the !
8 regulation regarding the law on transfers which requires 9 that they have financial assurance.
10 We're mixing things up. I do not want to 11 interject when I have to, but we're mixing up accidents 12 and financial responsibility -- responsibility for 13 operating the plant, that they're all different.
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn, you might -- the 15 time period we're talking about is prior to the transfer 16 and my question is whether you know of any documents that 17 have been presented that relate to who would be liable in 18 an accident?
19 MR. BLAKE: Judge Bloch, I have one problem 20 with this whole area that we're talking about with this 21 panel of witnesses. It seems to me what we're talking 22 about in this proceeding is the shift in operational 23 responsibility and who will be the individual on the 24 license listed as the licensed operator. There's no
() 25 amendment pending nor a request for an amendment pending NEAL P. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2670 1 regarding a change in financial responsibilities for this
-, 2 plant or in fact ownership for this plant.
(-) 3 And therefore, this whole line of questioning 4 strikes me as really quite -- I think unreliable, but in 5 fact irrelevant.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think that's an important 7 objection. Mr. Kohn, what do you think?
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I was trying to 9 establish the witnesses' knowledge as to whether they 10 understood Georgia Power's role as the owner, and that's 11 my next phase of the question. I believe Mr. -- that was 12 my foundation. I think Mr. -- I should have actually, if 13 I had Mr. Blake on the stand, could have gotten to that a O '
14 lot quicker.
15 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Let me go on and call your 17 attention to page three of the document you have in front 18 of you, owner organization. And if you would look under 19 number three, owner organization, you would agree that in 20 Phase II and in Phase I and in Phase III, Georgia Power 21 will be one of the owner organizations, is that true?
22 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, I would agree with that.
23 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And if you follow 24 with 3.1, it says the owner organization shall -- do you r~ 1
(_)s 25 see that?
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I
_ _ . . _ . - _ _ . _ _ _ . . _ _ _ - . . _ . . . . m. ._ . _ . , ,
r 2671 i I
1- WITNESS HOOD: Yes. ;
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And if you look earlier on .j 0 -3. 'page two, there's a definition of what shall means. The i i
4 word shall is used to denote a requirement, do you see j 5 that? The bottom portion of page two, right hand side.
, l 6 WITNESS HOOD: Yes. ;
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And so, Georgia ,
i 8 Power Company, before and after the license is transferred 9 has an ultimate requirement to establish administrative 10 controls and a quality assurance program, is that true?
11 WITNESS HOOD: Would you repeat that question, .j 12 please?
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. The owner l 14 organization -- in this case we'd be looking at --
i 15 focusing on Georgia Power -- shall establish an i
16 administrative control and quality assurance program, is ;
i 17 that correct? !
18 WITNESS' HOOD: What phase are you talking j
- 19. about now?
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I'm talking just the fact ;
21 that Georgia Power is a licensed owner of the plant and j 22 they appear on the license as the owner and will continue 23 to appear on the license as the owner -- that they shall :
24 establish an administrative control and quality assurance !
.O 25 progrem, correct 2 !
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b
's , ggy, 1 WITNESS HOOD: Yes. ,
i 2 MR. BARTH: Your Honor,_I object to the line'
') 3 of questioning. The issue before you is whether or not i i~
4 there's been an illegal transfer and whether these people
.5 have concluded there isn't. Mr. Kohn is certainly l 6 entitled to ask them the basis for the conclusion of ,
7 illegal transfer. The. underlying financial considerations I
8 are not an issue in this case at the moment, l l
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: There's been testimony about t
10 what constitutes an illegal transfer and what has to ,
11 happen for there to be an illegal transfer. If this is in a
12 fact within their expertise, I have no problem with that.
13 I have a little question as to whether it is within their I
14 expertise.
15 MR. BLAKE: Judge Bloch, I have another i 16 problem with this standard. This is one of the [
17 complications that we run into when we don't -- well, let 18 me ask the question. Mr. Kohn, are you planning to use 19 this standard or ask that this excerpt be incorporated .
20 into the record at the end of all this?
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Possibly.
22 MR. BLAKE: Well, that's what happens. You 23 see, when -- we had a nice process early on for people 24 identifying who the witnesses would be and filing prefiled l
( 25 testimony and proposing exhibits. And that gives ;
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2673 1 everybody an opportunity to know what's coming and to 2 study it so that we wind up with quite a competent record U 3 with people prepared to discuss the materials.
4 Here, this document -- and not even the whole 5 document, but a couple of page extract from it -- has been 6 provided for the first time in the course of cross 7 examination. And my problem with it -- I'm not familiar 8 with this document. I don't know what's before or after.
9 But when I look at just this portion of it, I question 10 whether or not it was intended to cover the example we 11 have here of a licensed owner and a licensed operator and 12 different responsibilities.
13 I frankly don't think so. I think that the n
14 standard was intended as a generic document to cover the 15 responsibility of -- in a general way of -- for these 16 plants and how to control and how to operate them. But 17 when you start carving the -- in a fine way, as we're 18 trying to do here in cross, I think we're going to wind up 19 with really quite incompetent evidence. And that's a lot 20 of concern to me.
21 BOARD EXAMINATION 22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Let me ask first whether this 23 standard is applicable to Georgia Power? Is it applicable 24 to -- does the NRC apply these standards?
s ,
)
( 25 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Can I address that?
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.; 2674 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Yes.
2 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I don't think an industry p
%~,)
3 standard such as this you can take it as a literal 4 requirement on the licensee. Licensee's do many times 5 come in and ask for exceptions to -- let's say the word 6 shall. And the staff evaluates those. And in many cases, 7 they say -- the staff says what you are proposing is 8 acceptable. ,
i 9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, so these -- I 10 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: So that you cannot take 11 the standard and take every shall and say every utility 12 must comply with that.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: So they're applied like 14 guidance -- like NRC guidance as it applies unless you 15 come in for an exception?
16 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: If a utility normally --
17 and it's usually with respect to the quality assurance 18 program, will commit to this document. And in many 19 aspects, when they commit to it they will commit to it 20 with maybe three or four or five or six exceptions. And 21 the staff evaluates those exceptions on its merits.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Do we know whether or not 23 Georgia Power is committed to this program?
24 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I would expect that
() 25 Georgia Power -- and it comes in on the context of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2675 1 quality assurance program -- I would believe very strongly 2 it is committed to this document, r~m .
()
~
3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Now the question I have is, 4 in light of the fact that it wasn't prefiled for -- as an 5 exhibit, you could still use this as legal argument.
6 What's the reason that you need to ask these witnesses 7 about it?
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, there has been ,
9 great testimony about the role of Nuclear Operation 10 Contract Administration group, and it's going to tie 11 together, I think rather clearly in a very short period of i
12 time.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I said you could use this in i 14 your legal brief because these are materials that appear 15 to be related to the contractual commitments of Georgia 16 Power. The question is why do you need to ask these 17 witnesses about it? If you need to explain that out of 18 your explain that out of their presence, we can do that.
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No , I don't nececsarily 20 need to do it out of their presence, Your Honor, and I 21 will explain it. One, testimony of the witnesses goes to 22 the conclusions of whether a license transfer occurred and 23 adopts the findings of the Director's Decision which goes 24 into Mr. Hobby's allegations.
O 25 You xnow, the deeteffing of -- or the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2676 1 termination of the Nuclear Operation Contract 2 Administration group. It goes to all these things. These
~
3 are the facts these gentlemen used to base the conclusions 4 of their testimony, and I want to go over this document 5 and to see if they had actually applied this document to 6 their findings, or whether they may have changed their 7 mind.
8 Or maybe they had misunderstood the thrust of 9 what the Intervenor was trying to get across. Maybe the 10 Director's Decision was misguided, and I think we should 11 be given the latitude to do thot, Your Honor.
12 MR. BLAKE: I'd move that you strike his 13 speech. Your question, Your Honor, required an answer 14 that I will tie this to the Nuclear Operations Contract 15 Administration very briefly. And you asked how. This is 16 not responsive to your question, and I move that you 17 strike this speech.
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm not going to strike 19 argument to me from the record. We'll take a brief 20 recess.
21 (Whereupon, the proceedings went off the 22 record from 10:22 a.m. until 10:27 a.m.)
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We've determined that in 24 light of the fact that these documents were not prefiled
() 25 as they were supposed to have been, that it's not fair to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. M W.
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y 2677 1 cross examine this panel on this document at this time.
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Mr. Kohn, I C)
L/
3 really question the quality of the record that we would 4 get by this kind of thing. We have a phase two coming up, 5 and I am not up to speed on what you're asking questions 6 about much less the witnesses.
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I guess -- this 8 is the problem Intervenor faces. The witnesses are being 9 called as fact witnesses and as witnesses on ultimate 10 conclusions contained in the direct -- partial Director's 11 Decision. And somewhere in between, how does Intervenor 12 determine whether we're limiting these to the facts or the 13 final conclusions in the report? And in order for us to O
14 do that -- .
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: You're free to argue legal 16 standards in your findings. Whatever the legal standards 17 are, you're free to argue them.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: These witnesses are here --
20 and you're right, they have testified on ultimate facts, 21 but that's not their job. My job is to decide with the 22 Licensing Board what the ultimate conclusions are. You're 23 not going to persuade me through evidence because these 24 people look good as witnesses or look bad as witnesses (O
s 25 that I'm going to affirm the Director's Decision.
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b ;
2678 i 1 I'm also -- I'm concerned about whether you're j 2 really going to get to the crux of this, because the !
' .O 3 allegation is that these people were mislead. And so far, j
i 4 we haven't had any questions that might indicate that they l 5 were mislead.
]
6 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) l t
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Gentlemen, if I call your j 8 attention to the bottom of page four, and --
9 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Of the prefiled !
10 testimony? ;
l t
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, excuse me. And i
12 starting -- l 13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Oh , I do think-that this -- .
14 because of the importance of the ruling we made, I think f
15 that this should be an exhibit in the transcript so we'll 16 know what we ruled about. It should be bound in -- it's !
not in evidence, but it's there as an illustration of what ;
17 W ,
18 we were talking about. ,
, 19 MR. BARTH: We have no objection, Your Honor. j 20 It sounds good. i 21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: On the bottom of page four l
22 of your testimony, I guess this is with respect to Mr. l 23 Rogge and Allenspach. It starts talking about the b
24 December 1988 inspection and at the last sentence on --
25 last line on page four, you talked about the more general NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
(202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON, D C 20005 (202) 2344 433
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, Amerie:n National Stand:rd N18.71976/ANS.3.2 Independent review. Review completed by onsite operating organization. Onsite per.
personnel not having direct responsibility for the sonnel concerned with operation, maintenance g work function under review regardless of and certain technical services. (
, (") whether they operate as a part of an organiza- operating activities. Work functions asso-tional unit or as individual staff members (see ciated with normal operation and maintenance review). of the plant, and technical services routinely inspection. Ex a mina tio: , observa tion, or assigned to the onsite operating organization.
measurement to determine the conformance of operating procedu re s. Written procedures '
materials, supplies, components, pa rts, a p- defining the normal method, means and limits purtenances, systems, personnel performance, of operation of a nuclear power plant, a plant procedures, processes or structures to predeter- system or systems, or processes, including ac-mined requirements. tions to be taken by operating personnel for
- maintenance and modification procedures. rem val fr m and return to service equipment on which maintenance is to be or has been per-Written procedures defining the policies and practices by which structures; mechanical, elec- f rmed (see also maintenance a:~i modification trical and instrumentation and control systems; procedures).
and components thereof of a nuclear power operational phase. That period of time during plant are kept in a condition of good repair or which the principal activity is associated with efficiency so that they are capable of performing normal operation of the plant. This phase of their intended functions. As used in this Stan. plant life is considered to begin formally with dard, these procedures apply to those activities commencement of fuel loading, and ends with performed by maintenance or contractor per- plant decommissioning.
sonnel to maintain. repair or modify safety- owner organization. The orga nization. in- g related equipment. R_ elated actinties _are those cluding the onsite operating organization. which actions taktn_bv operatine personnel to deter- has overall lg firtancial and technical re.
mine that a planned _mairgenance activity can sponsibility for the operation of one or more ',
be safely performed under the existing plant nuclear power plants.
, O
~
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oI>erating Mditions, to autho'rIii~the releay of f
quality a ssu ra nce. All those planned and
,fd equipment to be maintained in accordance with
~ systematic actions necessary to provide assur- l.
equipment control procedures. andTo assure
~ ance that a structure, system or component will that the equipment has been returned to normal perform satisfactorily in service. It applies to all operating status at tfie completion of,the rnain-
. actinties associated with doing a job correctlv tena nce work includmg serification of func' as well as serifving and documenting th'e tional acceptability. Procedures for these satisfactory compl'etion of the work.
related activities by noerating personnel are considered to be operats ig procedures, but may review. A deliberately critical examination, in-be included in maintenance procedures. cluding observation of plant operation. evalua-tion of audit results, procedures, certain contem-nuclear power pla n t. Any plant using a plated actions, and after the fact investigations nuclear reactor to produce electric power, of abnormal conditions (see independent process steam or space heating. review).
off-normal condition proc ed u re s. Written shall, should and may. The word "shall" is procedures which specify operator actions for used to denote a requirement; the word restoring an operating variable to its normal "should" to denote a recommendation; and the controlled value when it departs from its range word "may," to denote permission, neither a ,
or to restore normal opera ting conditions requirement nor a recommendation.
following a perturbation. Such actions are ... ,
invoked following an operator observation or an supervision. Direction of personnel actmties g annunciator alarm indicating a condition which, or monitoring of plant functions by an in. l if not corrected, could degenerate into a con. dividual responsible and accountable for the ac. -
dition requiring action under en emergency tivities he directs or monitors.
procedure. surveillance testing. Periodic testing to verify 2
~
Arnerican Nation:t Stand;rd NIS 71976/ANS4.2 that safety related structures, sntems and com-e partmental responsibilities and relationships ponents continue to function or are in a state of and job descriptions for key personnel positions readiness to perform their functions. or in equivalent forms of documentation.
system. An integral part of a nuclear power The owner organization shall specify i.n plant comprising components which may be writing the authority and responsibility assigned operated or used as a separate entity to perform to individuals and organizations involved in a specific function. establishing, executing and measuring the overall effectiveness of the administrative con- l testing. Performance of those steps necessary 60 trols and quality assurance program required by' determine that systems or components function this Standard.
in accordance with predetermined specifica- The persons or organizations responsible for
. tions defining and measuring the overall effectiveness of the program shall be designated, shall be suf- '
ficiently indenenasfrom cost and scheduling
- 3. Owner Organization considerations when opposed to safety con-siderations, shall have direct access to respon-3.1 General. The owner or ga nization shall sible management at a level where appropriate establish an ad_ministrative controls and c6
_ action can be accomplished, and shall report assurance program which complies with this regularly on the effectiveness of the program to Standard. The program shall be in effect at all the plant manager and the cognizant offsite times during the operational phase to assure ma na gement.
that operational phase activities are carried out Persons or organizations performing functions without undue risk to the health and safety of of assng that the administrative controls and the public. The program shall require that quality assurance program is established and decisions affecting safety are made at the proper implemented or of assurine that an attivity has I,ew of rnponsibility and with the,necessary been correctiv performed shall have sufficient technical advice and rede_w. The . owner, authority and organizational freedom to: iden-
,; organizatiori may delegate to other organizar tify quality problems; initiate, recommend or tions the work of establishing and executing th,e provide solutions. through designated channels; admimstrative controls and quality assurance, and serify implementation of ,alutions.
program or any part thereof, in accordance with The organizational structure and the func-this Standard,;but gl retain responsibi,lity tional responsibility assignments shall be such therefor. tha t:
(1) Attainment of program objectives is ac-3.2 Assignment of Authority and Respon- complished by those who have been assigned eibility. It is essential that all members of the responsibility for performing work. This may in-organization involved in operation of nuclear clude interim examinations, checks, and in-power plants, including those at the highest spections of the work by the individual per-management levels, recognire.,the necessity that forming the work.
the plants be operated under a well formulated (2) Verifica tion of conforma nce to and detailed administrative controls and qual- established program requirements is a c-ity assurance program to assure safety and ef- complished by a qualified person who does not ficiency iLrte:, of authority, responsibility and ha'.e responsibility for performing or directly coramonication shlabe established from the supervising the work. The method and extent of 11g 1 at management level though intermediate such verification shall be commensurate with Ints to and including the onsite operating die importance of the activity to plant safety srganization (including those_.offsite organiza- and reliability.
tignal units assigned responsibility for in stnieturing the organization and assigning procurernent u design and construction, quality responsibility, quality as:,urance should be assura nce, an_d tec_hnic.al support _ activities). recognized as an interdisciplinary function
,. These relationships shall be documented and involving many organizational components and,
( lpdated, as appropriate, in the form of organi- therefore, should not be regarded as the sole rational charts, functional descriptions of de- domain of a single quality assurance group. For 3
2679 1 activities of the corporate organization and the 2 inspection was before -- and I'm :, try, on page five --
O 3 the inspection was performed prior to the upcoming 4 licensing of Vogtle Unit 2. Do you see that? Okay.
5 Now, was a part of the reason this inspection 6 of December was going forward due to the fact that unit 2 7 was coming due for som 'icense hearings?
8 WITNESS ALLEndPACH: Yes.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Was that the predominate 10 reason why?
11 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: mc me answer that.
12 WITNESS HOOD: Is the question directed to the 13 timing of the inspection or the subject to the inspection?
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: The timing of the 15 inspection.
16 WITNESS ROGGE: The timing of the inspection 17 would have been based on the licensing of the unit 2. But ;
18 the need for the inspection was based on all three units, 19 and that's why you see in the inspection report that all 20 responsible organizations in the Region 2 for Farley, f
21 Hatch, and Vogtle were present at this inspection.
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And were you aware at the 23 time of the inspection that Georgia Power was making a 24 major management change in that Mr. Scherer was no longer 25 going to be responsible for nuclear, and Mr. Dahlberg was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W. >
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2680 ;
l' going to be taking over?
2 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't think so, because I i LO 3 had no significanca associated with that event, j
l 4 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I agree with that answer. l 5 I did not, no. ,
6- .MR. MICHAEL KOHN: -So with respect to this (
I 7 December '88 inspection, I can -- can I infer from your 8 answer that nobody told you about that type of high level l-9 corporate reorganization? j 10 WITNESS ROGGE: No, I just would not have i 11 attached any significance to it if they had.
12 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have nothing to add,.I ;
13 agree.
o 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Now, if you would --
t 15 were you aware that the FSAR document that is known as -- :
r 16 well first, you are aware that the FSAR requires the i
17 organization structure to be set forth?
i 18 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I do. ~
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And you had an-FSAR f
20 organization structure you were relying upon when you went [
21 to do this December '88 inspection, is that true? !
'I 22 WITNESS HOOD: You mean we were relying on a [
i 23 structure that had been defined tor us in an FSAR? l 24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
25 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: We knew it was changed, NEAL R. GROSS I COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS I 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
(202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 234 4433 [
m 2681 1 so in a certain sense, I don't know how you can say we 2 were relying on something that we knew had changed.
3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, you knew that the 4 FSAR had been filed -- an amendment had been filed in 5 November, correct? November of '88, I think that's in 6 your testimony. If I could call your attention to your +
7 testimony, there's an attachment Vogtle SSER 8, page 8 identified as 13-4.
9 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have that.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And what is --
11 MR. BARTH: And the foundation for this being 12 done in November, Mr. Kohn? I'm certain that you >
13 mentioned it, I just missed it, I apologize.
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It's in the Joint
- 15 Stipulation that the figure 13.1 is from the November '88 i
16 FSAR update. I i
17 MR. BARTH: Thank you. i 18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, if you -- what is the 19 purpose of Attachment 1 to your testimony?
20 BOARD EXAMINATION 21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Anyone can answer that, but 22 someone ought to. What is the purpose of Attachment I?
23 WITNESS HOOD: To amplify the response to --
24 give me a moment to find where we reference it in this l
25 testimony.
1 NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS j 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
]
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. O C 20005 (202) 234-4433
2682 ,
1 MR. BARTH: Mr. Kohn, may I tell him where it 2 is?
O 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Sure.
4 MR. BARTH: It's on page seven, Mr. Hood, six 5 lines from the bottom. -
6 WITNESS HOOD: It shows our understanding of 7 the organizational structure at a point in time.
8 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) :
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And this point in time 10 being an organization evaluation conducted in February of 11 1989?
12 WITNESS HOOD: I believe that's correct.
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And if we look then ,
14 at page 13.4 of Attachment 1, this then was your 15 understanding of the organization -- the corporate l 16 organization?
17 WITNESS HOOD: That's at least part of'our 18 understanding of the corporate organization.
19 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: What time frame?
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: At February '89, I guess 21 when this was done.
22 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I believe that's correct.
23 Where is the February '89 date coming from?
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I think it's --
( 25 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Page seven of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N.W.
(202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 234 4433
2683 1 the -- of your direct testimony. Is that right?
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: That is right, Your Honor.
V,,
3 BOARD EXAMINATION 4 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: And Mr.
5 Allenspach? ,
i 6 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Yes.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Is that what 8 that means, is that the Attachment 1 was dated in February 9 1989?
10 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I think what that means 11 is that the supplement to the Vogtle safety evaluation --
12 Supplement 8, I believe, was published. I believe that's 13 the publishing date of that Supplement 8. So that that 14 organization was evaluated to provide that input into the 15 safety evaluation report.
16 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: So you made the 17 evaluation prior to February of 1989 and then published it 18 in '89? Is that what you're saying? ;
19 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I would say probably 20 briefed it before that because it's got to go through 21 process. I couldn't say exaccly wnen we did it, but my P
22 understanding -- my recollection is if you look at the 23 date on that Supplement 8, I think that would probably be 24 the February '89 date.
( 25 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: And Supplement 8 [
t NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, O C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
I . 2684 1 -is your attachment of one?-
-I 2 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: That's an excerpt from ;
,( )- !
.3 Supplement 8. The supplements might deal with many ,
l 4 different subjects. This is taken from that supplement 5 'and just deals with this particular subject. l 6 WITNESS' HOOD: You'll notice the lower left l 7 hand corner of the pages of Attachment 1, they're titled i 8 Vogtle SSER 87 It is an extract from supplemental safety i
9 evaluation report number eight.
10 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. <
11 Kohn. :
i 12 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) [
i 13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And if you would look at ,
(:) 14 your testimony on page seven, the first answer to question j 15 eight, fourth line down -- starting at the third to fourth 16 line down. GP submitted Amendment 39 to the Vogtle FSAR [
17 under cover letter from Mr. Rice dated November 23, 1988, ,
2 18 do you see that? :
i 19 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, then it's'the next ~
21 sentence -- by cover letter from Hairston dated March 28, 22 1988 -- ;
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: 1990.
t 24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Excuse me, 1990. Isn't it j
) 25 true that between November '88 and March 29, 1990, you l
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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.- ., , .- ., ,y- , ,,m --
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2685 1 received nothing in writing from Georgia Power Company 2 concerning any changes to its corporate organization?
\)
3 WITNESS HOOD: I don't think I can answer 4 that. MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, are you 5 currently aware of anything? >
'l 6 WITNESS HOOD: As I sit here now, nothing 7 comes to mind.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. All right, and now 9 turning back to Exhibit 13 --
10 WITNESS HOOD: Wait a minute. You did say in 11 writing?
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. s 13 WITNESS HOOD: No. I know of activities going 14 on that were relevant, but they were not writings.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, if you would look back -
16 at Exhibit 13-4, and we've established this is February 17 '89 which would fall between the two dates we just 18 discussed in the November 23 and March 28, 1990, would it 19 be --
20 WITNESS HOOD: Can we have that reference 21 again, please?
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. We established that 23 you're not aware of anything received in writing from 24 Georgia Power Company between November '88 and March 1990. ;
) 25 And now we're looking at Attachment 1, which as I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D C 20005 (202) 2344433
3 2686 7
~1 understand.it is February '89, so that would fall between ,
I 2 those time frames, correct? I guess it's sort of self 3' If you look now at Exhibit 13, Attachment 1-
' explanatory. ;
4 --
j 5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn? Mr. Kohn, if you 6 want to, you can continue with-this line, but the witness 7 said'he had other information and I don't see how he could i 8 be mislead if he had other information.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. What other i 10 information did you have concerning corporate structure at 11 Plant Vogtle? I'm talking about from Mr. McCoy and above?
12 MR. BARTH: Mr. McCoy is not at Plant.Vogtle.
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Over Plant Vogtle.
O 14 WITNESS HOOD: My recollection is there were 15 two meetings that we had in March. I'm sorry, that would 16 have been in March of '88. I think my year-is mixed up,.I 17 might try to sort this out. After November of '88 through 18 March of '90 --
19 BOARD EXAMINATION 20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: You could hesitate until you 21 have thought of the answer, that would probably work a 22 little better.
23 WITNESS HOOD: It's a little hard to sort this 24 out in your mind as you sit here with the documents in 25 front of you.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2687 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Are there any documents that s
2 you need to refresh your memory?
( 3 WITNESS HOOD: No , I'm just trying to see if I 4 can think of any documents. I mean,. basically in 1989 --
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: If you had documents that 6 would refresh your memory, there's no problem with your 7 looking at them.
8 WITNESS HOOD: Well, I don't have them here !
9 with me at this moment. I'm just trying to know if I can 10 remember if any exist that go to the organization --
11 MR. BARTH: Could we supplement his answer, 12 Your Honor, by examining the records in the public 13 document room in the Vogtle file and identifying if we had -
G k/ 14 communications? This does not go to the substance, so Mr.
15 Kohn will --
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: He said it's not in writing.
17 MR. BARTH: I thought he said he was not 18 certain.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, the question right now 20 is what he knew, not whether it was in writing.
21 WITNESS HOOD: When I said it was not in ,
22 writing, I was thinking of a different time period. The 23 period that I had in mind when I said that would have been 24 before November of 1988.
/~
(h / 25 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, so the -- Mr. Kohn, you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
I (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 l
o 2688 1 may continue.
2 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) b 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay, now if you look at 4 Attachment 1 to your testimony, page 13.4, figure 13.1 on 5 -- of the corporate organization, can you tell me who the 6 chairman and CEO is identified in the very top?
7 WITNESS HOOD: Again, what time frame are we 8 talking about?
9 Fig . MICHAEL KOHN: This would be --
10 WITNESS HOOD: At the time frame --
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: That this document was 12 prepared in the February 1989 time frame.
13 WITNESS HOOD: I'm trying to remember when Mr.
14 --
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Anybody on the 16 panel can answer it if they know.
17 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I believe in retrospect 18 now that it was Mr. Dahlberg. But you know, for going 19 back into that time frame, I don't think I was 20 particularly aware of who was.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Now can you tell me 22 if --
23 WITNESS HOOD: Wait a minute. The question 24 was chairman and CEO?
) 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
(202)2344433 WASHINGTON D C. 20005 (202) 2344433 j
. . - . . ~- . - . .~ - _- -. - .- . .- ., _.
- 2689
.1~ WITNESS HOOD: And the time frame would have
. 2 been.19 --
- O 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHE. February '89. !
4 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I-believe it was Mr. i 5 Dahlberg.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: You said you don't believe ;
i 7 it'was Mr. -- !
- 8. WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I do.
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay, now can you tell me -
10 -
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Hood does not.
12 WITNESS HOOD: Mr. Dahlberg was president of 13 GPC, and I'm going to get my times straight now.
O 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: There's an excellent exhibit i
t 4
15 in one of Licensee's testimonies which we could provide so :
16 that you could refresh your recollections. I don't see i 17 any problem with doing that at all in this-situation. Do :
18 you know the exhibit number?
19 MR. LAMBERSKI: I'm not sure I.know which [
l 20 exhibit you're referring to, Your Honor.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The attachment to one of the 22 direct testimonies. .
I 23 MR. LAMBERSKI: The chronology?
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Yes. l 25 MR. BLAKE: That was the one that we thought NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W. ,
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F 2690 1 was great and it was excluded unfortunately as an exhibit.
2 It stays in as demonstrative evidence.
i 3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It's very good demonstrative ;
l 4 stuff for right now.
5 MR. BLAKE: It's Exhibit B to Mr. Hairston's 6 prefiled.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Could someone make that ,
8 available to the witness?
9 MR. BARTH: We shall, Your Honor. We will 10 recover it as rapidly as we can find it.
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I have it. Do you mind?
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No, Your Honor.
13 BOARD EXAMINATION 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think that will help. Look 15 only at that page.
16 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Excuse me, the date in 17 question is '89 and this page only deals with 1988.
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Was the next -- how about the 19 next page? It continues. You can look at the whole 20 exhibit.
21 WITNESS HOOD: Okay, I see here -- December of 22 1988 Mr. Dahlberg replaces Scherer as CEO of Georgia 23 Power.
24 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So in December of '88, Mr.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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I 2691 i 1 Dahlberg becomes CEO? Does he have -- is my question --
2 then if you look at this box at the right hand side, v- Who would that refer to?
j 3 there's a president listed. ,
4 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: At the moment, I have no 5 answer to that. I can go back and take a look.
l 6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So if --
7 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: That half of the chart 8 was focused on not the operation of Vogtle.
9 MR. BARTH: But Your Honor, is his memory test 10 of six year old memory is who was president and secretary, 11 is that really germane to the issue?
12 BOARD EXAMINATION 13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But they're not asking memory 14 test now. They're asking if there was a president. It's 15 a box for president. And the answer I heard was that it 16 wasn't germane to the inspection, is that correct?
17 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I would say that's a true 18 statement.
19 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So in fact, if the 21 president of Georgia Power at the relevant time frame was 22 Mr. Dahlberg, then that would not have been germane to the 23 inspection?
24 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I think it was answered O
V 25 before. We didn't particularly look at anything above the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPCRTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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i
2692 1 level of Mr. Hairston.
,_ 2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And is it true that you --
k)' 3 do you know Mr. Scherer or have you heard of his 4 reputation?
5 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I've heard of his name.
6 I have no feeling one way whatsoever as to his reputation.
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, does there happen to 8 be an extra copy of the Joint Stipulation documents so I 9 don't --
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: An extra copy?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: For the witnesses to look 12 at.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The chairman can make 14 available his copy. I won't be able to look at it at the 15 time. l 16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Has the panel had the 17 opportunity to review the Joint Stipulated documents?
18 WITNESS HOOD: I have.
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, has anyone else had --
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm sorry, I think Mr.
21 Scherer tried to say something.
22 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: No, I was going to say I 23 have nothing to add.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I don't mean Mr. Scherer. l
( 25 MR. BARTH: A memory test, Your Honor.
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2693 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I need'these aides too.
,, 2 WITNESS HOOD: The panel has reviewed it.
<\
(~/ 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: The entire panel? -
4 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Now I'm going to 6 call your attention to Exhibit 12.
7 WITNESS HOOD: Mr. Rogge indicates to me that 8 he's reviewed it for parts that affect him. So I can't 9 assert that he's reviewed all of it.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Well, let's look at 11 12. Earlier we were talking about the November '88 FSAR.
12 Does this exhibit as been stipulated to the parties as 13 being that document, and do you see that the same chart O#
14 that you have attached on part of your Attachment 1 to 15 your testimony is the same chart in the November '88 FSAR?
16 WITNESS HOOD: The substance of the two charts 17 appear to be the same.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And if you would now 19 look at Exhibit 14. Do you see Exhibit 14? I think I'm 20 looking at Exhibit 13, I'm sorry. I think you'll notice 21 that it indicates that Mr. Rogge was served a copy of this 22 document? Mr. Rogge, do you recall receiving this 23 document?
24 WITNESS ROGGE: First of all, I'm served every I
() 25 document because I was a senior resident. I do believe I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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I
2694 1 remember seeing this document.
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: All right. And do you V 3 recall why -- did you know you were going to be receiving 4 this document?
5 WITNESS ROGGE: I can't recall that.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: What's your understanding 7 of why this document was sent to you or to the NRC?
8 MR. BARTH: He's answered that. He says the 9 senior resident is served all of them.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, what was the purpose 11 of this particular -- this is not -- was this letter sent 12 in response to the audit or the inspection done in 13 December of 1988 by you and Mr. Hood and others?
01 V 14 WITNESS ROGGE: Correct, and that inspection 15 report references that.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And were you advised 17 in this letter of any change in the corporate organization 18 structure at -- over Plant Vogtle?
19 WITNESS HOOD: Mr. Kohn, I think you misspoke 20 when you said the inspection done by Mr. Rogge and Mr.
21 Hood. I believe you meant Mr. Allenspach.
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I'm sorry. Were you --
23 WITNESS ROGGE: I'm not sure what you're l 24 asking. Am I advised of -- l 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: All right. There was no NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2695 1 mention of any change in corporate organization in this 2 letter, is there?
4 3 WITNESS ROGGE: Right.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And isn't it -- other than 5 the documents contained in this Joint Stipulation, are you 6 aware of any other correspondence to and from Georgia 7 Power and the NRC related to organizationa* structure at 8 Plant -- over Plant Vogtle?
9 MR. BARTH: Could you give us the time frames, 10 sir?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Between November 1988 and 12 the last date of the -- well, let's say in October 23, 13 1992 which is identified in Exhibit 28 as a date.
/
14 WITNESS ROGGE: That's addressed to me?
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: To the panel.
16 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I am not aware. I don't-17 believe I'm aware, at least not to my recollection.
P 18 WITNESS HOOD: Same answer.
19 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Kohn, do you have a lot more 20 questions in this area along this topic?
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Not a lot.
22 MR. BLAKE: Are you anticipating a break any 23 time soon, Judge Bloch?
l 24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: How much more do you have.on 25 this area?
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1 2696 1 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, we could take a 2 break and I can finish up.
3 MR. BLAKE: The reason that I'd like to 4 suggest is, I think we could sure speed up this process if 5 I had an opportunity to talk with the Board out of earshot 6 of the witnesses about this topic.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, it depends on how much 8 more time he's going to spend on it. How much --
9 MR. BLAKE: That's why I asked.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: How much more time are you 11 going to spend on it, Mr. Kohn?
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Not much, Your Honor.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, I don't know what that 14 means.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Oh, five minutes.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay, let's go. We'll take a 17 break after the five minutes.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, were you aware -- did 19 any of you gentlemen attend the full power licensing l
20 hearing before the commission for unit 2?
21 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I did not. I i
22 WITNESS HOOD: I was not present, I have read 23 the transcript.
24 WITNESS ROGGE: I was present.
() 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And Mr. Rogge, when Mr.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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'i - i 2697 !
'l Mcdonald -- have,you read the transcript also?
. 2 WITNESS ROGGE: Portions of it, yes. .
'( -
3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay, and you are aware
)
4 'that Mr. Hairston was left out of the corporate chain?
5 WITNESS ROGGE: .Yes, I saw that.
I 6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: At the time the statement 7 was made, did you know Mr. Hairston had been left out of 8 the corporate chain?
9 WITNESS'ROGGE: It didn't hit me at that 10 meeting, no.
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Did anyone at the NRC ever- ;
1 12 tell you it hit them at that meeting that Mr. Hairston had 13 been left out of the corporate chain?
14 WITNESS ROGGE: No. ,
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And in fact, wasn't the i 16 organization over Plant Vogtle very new and in fact, ;
e 17 couldn't the NRC be confused as to its actual organization i 18 if they had been relying on figure 13.1 of the f 19 organization chart?
20 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't know. I don't know ;
21 the answer to that. t 22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, are you aware that ;
23 Georgia Power submitted a correction to the testimony made l t
24 at the full power license hearing? :
() 25 WITNESS ROGGE: I think so, by reviewing these '
NEAL R. GROSS i COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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~ . , . , , , , . _ . . ., .- ..- . , , - . .
i 2698 1 records. ;
,. 2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And are you aware that in b 3 the correction, there was no mention of the fact that Mr.
4 -- that the figure 13.1 on the FSAR was inaccurate? Are 5 you aware of the fact that figure 13.1 of the FSAR I ,
6 believe was relied on in the response provided to the NRC?
7 WITNESS ROGGE: Not directly.
8 MR. BARTH: I did not hear the answer, Mr.
9 Rogge. Would you speak into the phone and speak up, 10 please? I want to listen too.
11 WITNESS ROGGE: Not directly. I didn't really 12 use that for anything.
13 WITNESS HOOD: Is it really figure 13.1 of the 14 FSAR? I know that's the figure number for the SER.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. That's also the same 16 figure number as in the FSAR.
17 WITNESS HOOD: Okay.
18 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: Mr. Kohn, you 19 want to check that again? I don't think that's the right .
20 direction to the witnesses.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Exhibit 12 seems to show that l 22 it's figure 13.1.1-1.
23 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor. ;
I 24 WITNESS ROGGE: Could you show me what you're 25 talking about? I don't seem to have it here that I can ,
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W. ;
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L .,
, il. .-
2699 e
I l' put my hands on it.
a ;
2 MR. BLAKE: ~Mr. Kohn? !
_() 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I -- ,
4 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Kohn, if you're going to f 5 continue any.more questions on this area regarding whether j
, t I
6 'or not Mr. Hairston's having been left out at the January l 7 meeting discussion -- the March meeting and Mr. Hairston l 8 having been left out of the discussion, I'm going to !
9 object because this is not in your statement of issues. l 10 I've tried to keep quiet to not interrupt the' flow. l l
11 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, could we approach the 12 bench? If you have any hesitation in responding to Mr. i 13 .Blake's argument, I'd like to speak to the Board outside: ,
( 14 the presence of the witnesses or outside. ;
15 MR. BLAKE: If he's going to continue, I'm i
16 going to -- we already have a Board ruling, Charles, I j 17 believe that says we're not going to be allowed to refer 18 to irrelevant things, and therefore I've chosen not to i i
19 interrupt and as long as there's no more time taken so be ;
20 it. l 21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Let the record reflect that -
)
22 Mr. Kohn has found the document he was looking for. It 23 took him several minutes.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor. I'm
( 25 going to call the witnesses' attention to Exhibit 120 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND A%ENUE, N W.
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2700 )
l 1 which should be in the books in front of you and this 2 exhibit is in evidence. Now, I'm going to actually have 3 you look at two separate documents if you would. One is 4 Exhibit 12 to the Joint Stipulations which I believe is 5 the document being referred to in Exhibit 120. Do you ;
6 notice --
7 WITNESS HOOD: Just a minute. What was the 8 exhibit in the Joint Stipulation?
9 WITNESS ROGGE: Twelve.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And if you would turn to 11 the Joint Stipulation Exhibit 12 to figure 13.1.1-1. Do 12 you see that figure being referenced in Mr. Hairston's 13 letter dated May 22, 1989 -- or at least stamped on the O 14 top right hand corner with that date? ,
15 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: When -- did you have any 17 reason to believe -- let me rephrase the question. Did 18 anyone on the panel receive a copy of this letter in or 19 about the time it was written and given to the NRC?
P 20 WITNESS HOOD: May 22 -- what's the full date?
21 '89?
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
23 WITNESS HOOD: I was not the project manager 24 at that time, so I would not have received it.
25 WITNESS ROGGE: No, I'm not aware of seeing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2701 1 it, and I think in that time frame I was kind of out of l 2 the loop.
b 3 WITNESS ROGGE: If it was sent to me, I should 4 have seen it.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. This particular is 6 sent to the document control desk, do you see that?
7 WITNESS ROGGE: Right.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is that where the documents
! 9 are normally sent?
10 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, it is. It's like a mail 12 room and it gets distributed to the right point within the 13 organization from there.
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And to be distributed, I 15 assume it would have to be -- how would it get 16 distributed? How would they know who the right persons 17 would be with respect to this document?
18 MR. BARTH: Your' Honor, this is -- I'm looking 19 for the word law, but irrelevant doesn't apply because it 20 goes beyond that. This is facetious. I'm trying to think 21 of a proper objection but I can't. This is just --
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, we can pursue whether -
23 or not it's one of the issues. But if it's one of the ;
l 24 issues he's trying to pursue, who knew what within the NRC 25 which is relevant to whether there was a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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2702 1 misrepresentation.
,s 2 MR. BARTH: How the mail room distributes 3 mail? They distribute it by hand, Your Honor. I'll 4 testify to that.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: He's trying to find out who 6 had it.
7 MR. BARTH: That wasn't his question.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: That was what I meant to 9 ask. I'm sorry if you didn't understand that.
10 MR. BARTH: I object to what he asked, not 11 what he meant to ask.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I sustain the objection as to 13 what the mail room does.
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Can you -- anyone on the 15 panel, tell me how the NRC upon receipt of this document 16 if there was no one else identified as to who would be 17 carbon copied or anything, how this document would be 18 forwarded up to proper individuals?
19 WITNESS HOOD: The --
20 WITNESS ROGGE: Is the problem here we don't 21 have the full document and you don't know what the 22 distribution is?
23 WITNESS HOOD: I'11 answer the question. The 24 mail room operates on a prearranged system of lists which l rs i U 25 are established by function and a letter comes in, they i NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2703 1 will. establish which list is appropriate and route it 2 accordingly.
0, MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And with your knowledge, 3
4 what list would this document be routed to?
5 WITNESS HOOD: It would have been put in NRR.
6 Copies would have been sent to the region. Action on this 7 would have been in my group, probably. My group, I meant 8 -- it would have been -- certainly the distribution would 9 have included the -- what today is called project direct f
10 lists. And at the time frame, that may have been called a 11 licensing branch, I'm not sure of that.
12 But the project manager and the -- what is 13 today a project director would certainly have been aware f
14 of this letter.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And is it fair to 16 say that the NRC would have every reason to rely on the 17 fact that figure 13.1.1-1 in the FSAR accurately depicted 18 the corporate organization as of May 19897 19 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And in fact, this letter 21 was sent to correct a prior omission and error in the 22 corporate reporting chain, correct? j 23 WITNESS HOOD: Just a moment. It was sent --
24 I'm sorry, did I interrupt you?
25 BOARD EXAMINATION NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2704 j l
1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It was sent, wasn't it, to 2 correct a mistake made at the meeting about the corporate ,
3- reporting chain 2 4 WITNESS HOOD: That's what I was about to say. ,
5 MR. BLAKE: And that mistake, whether or not 6 Mr. Hairston's name was mentioned, is not an issue in the 7 proceeding. :
8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: No, but page ten, issue three 9 relates to the amendment to the FSAR. -As Judge Murphy --
e 10 MR. BLAKE: Page ten, issue three -- ,
i 11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Of the issues statement. I 12 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE MURPHY: And issue four ,
l 4
13 also. j 14 MR. BLAKE: Yes, I agree.
15 CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) 16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So, would the NRC expect in 17 receiving a written communication from Georgia Power P
18 Company from a senior vice president correcting what'has -;
19 been identified as a potentially false statement -- let me 20 rephrase that, I don't ant to use those type of words.
l 21 Correcting a statement made by Mr. Mcdonald which was ;
22 incorrect at the time it was made to the commission, would t
23 you expect that the document identified in this letter 24 would accurately reflect the actual organization of l 0 2s aeergie Power ee of the dete it wee eusmitted to the NRC2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2705 1 WITNESS. HOOD: We would certainly expect that-
'2 that was Georgia Power's belief at the' time, yes. '
- O.' 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I'm done with I '4 this line of questioning.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'd like to excuse the 6 witnesses now. We're going to take a ten minute recess, 7 but I'd like to have a scheduling discussion with the 8 parties and it would be better if the witnesses weren't 9 present.for that. j 10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn, how much time and 11 where are we going?
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I think if we took a --
13 during the course of a 10-minute recess, I think I-can 14 come back and tell you that we've got five or ten minutes 15 left. We're that close.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. Let's take the 10-17 minute recess.
18 (Whereupon, the proceedings were off the 19 record from 11:12 a.m. until 11:28 a.m.) .,
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The hearing will please come l
21 to order.
l 22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Hood, do you recall 23 attending the depositions in this proceeding?
24 MR. BARTH: You're going to have to specify.
. 25 There are 45 of them. Objection.
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i 2706 1 1 MR MICHAEL KOHN: In particular, I believe it 2 may have been Mr. Hairston's deposition.
~
(~) 3 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
~
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Do you remember an l l
5 issue coming up, either on the record. or off the record, l 6 during that deposition where it was learned by you and )
7 Mr. Barth that Mr. Franklin would not be signing the i
8 Notice of Violation?
9 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, the Notice of 10 Violation was issued by the NRC, and Mr. Franklin is i 11 really not an employee of the NRC. Second of all, if you 12 pleane, Mr. Kohn, one at a time. !!econd of all, this is 13 not related to the transfer of ownership. It's not '
O
\2 14 related to any issue in this case whatsoever.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: What's the relevance, 16 Mr. Kohn?
l l's I MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, the relevance 18 -- I think I should be allowed a little leeway, but the 19 relevance is going to be a concern raised by NRC in my 20 presence regarding organizational responsibility at 21 Georgia Power Company.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'll allow the question.
23 WITNESS HOOD: I do remember that discussion.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And do you remember
) 25 F.r . Barth stating forcefully to Georgia Power Company that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
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1 2707 i i the NOV was issued to Mr. Franklin by name, and that the 2 NRC expected Georgia Power's response to be signed by -
p) u-1 Mr. Franklin?
4 WITNESS HOOD: Words to that effect, yes.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And would you characterize ,
6 Mr. Barth's statements as forceful? r i
7 MR. BARTH: I'd object. It's not relevant.
8 And you know, Your Honor, I'm never foruiful.
9 (Laughter.)
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Yes, I don't think the 11 forcefulness matters.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. And is it true that 13 after -- and let me ask a follow-up question. Could there 14 be -- who was present during that deposition, besides i
15 Mr. Hairston?
16 WITNESS HOOD: There were --
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: From Georgia Power.
i 18 WITNESS HOOD: There were -- I mean, 19 certainly, I remember Mr. Barth and myself and Mr.
20 Hairston. There were Troutman Sanders attorneys present.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, isn't it true that j 22 when the response was issued it was signed by Mr. McCoy?
23 WITNESS HOOD: That was my -- i i
24 MR. BLAKE: We'll stipulate to that. :
( 25 WITNESS HOOD: -- understanding.
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS l 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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.1
2708 1 -MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And it was issued by 2 Mr. McCoy after Georgia Power's executive over nuclear
/_sg.
V 3 operations was specifically told by the NRC that they 4 wanted it submitted by Mr. Franklin?
5 MR. BARTH: Objection. Do not answer, 6 Mr. Hood, until we get the objection done.
7 Your Honor, that mischaracterizes this record 8 badly. There's no facts to show they were instructed to 9 have anybody sign that thing.
10 AR. BLAKE: We'll also stipulate that the 11 letter went in after Mr. Hairston's deposition.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It really escapes my 13 understanding how it matters whether Mr. McCoy signed that 14 or Mr. Franklin.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I think it ties 16 into the fact that the corporate organization, when 17 Mr. Franklin was or currently is the President, nuclear 18 organization was omitted from the 10-K filing. And now, 19 Mr. Franklin is not signing documt.lation which the NRC 20 expected him to sign. I think it has some significance.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: All right. If you think it 22 matters, it's available for you, because it's on the 23 record.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor.
O 25 Is it true that when the inspections occurred
(_/
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2709 1 in December of 1988 that Nuclear Operations Contract 2 Administration group had not yet been formed?
~
3 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have no idea.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. Has anyone on the 5 panel heard prior to --
6 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I mean, at that time I 7 had no knowledge.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: When is the first time the 9 panel became aware of the Nuclear Operations Contract 10 Administration group?
11 WITNESS HOOD: I've heard considerable 12 discussion about the formation of that panel during the 13 course of discovery in this proceeding and during the 14 proceeding itself.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: How about while working on 16 the response to the 2.206 petition? ,
17 MR. BARTH: We haven't established that i
18 Mr. Hood worked on it, Your Honor. It assumes facts not 19 in evidence.
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, whoever worked on it 21 can answer the question. I know that at least one of 1 22 these witnesses did. We had a discussion about that.
23 If your answer is that you don't know, you )
24 don't remember, that's also acceptable. But just whatever
( 25 the truth is.
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I 2710 l 1 WITNESS HOOD: I'm having a hard time
_ 2 remembering that in the context of the 2.206 petition.
%) -
3 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: My answer is the same. I l l
4 don't recall that in that context at all.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you recall any 1
6 discussion in the 2.206 petition about Mr. Hobby's 7 position as General Manager-Nuclear Operations Contract 8 Administration?
9 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Yeah, I believe so.
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Did you ever -- are you 11 aware of anyone at the NRC ever contacting Mr. Hobby?
12 WITNESS HOOD: I know I did not, and I am not 13 aware of others who may have.
O 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And are you aware of 15 whether the NRC ever determined whether the Nuclear ,
16 Operations contract Administration group had been 17 established to provide any safety function to Georgia 18 Power's Atlanta offices?
i 19 WITNESS HOOD: I'm -- their function, as I j 20 understand it, does not constitute a safety function.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: My question is, are you 22 aware of, prior to this hearing, anyone at the NRC sitting l
23 and meeting with Mr. Hobby to discuss the function of I l
1 24 Nuclear Operations Contract Administration group? l 25 WITNESS HOOD: I am not.
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2711 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The silence by the members 2 just means that they don't have any contradictory 0,_
3 information.
4 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Correct.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, do you recall 6 having a discussion with Mr. Mosbaugh where you advised 7 him that Georgia Power's response was to issue -- was to 8 engage in a large effort after the NRC identified a 9 problem, rather than engaging in a large effort where a 10 problem was identified?
11 WITNESS ROGGE: Is this part of the sarce 12 dialogue?
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
14 WITNESS ROGGE: Can I see it?
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Sure.
16 MR. BARTH: I think that counsel should extend 17 the usual courtesies we have established.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, I'm showing you 19 page 62 of that transcript to refresh your recollection.
20 And, unfortunately, on that page, and during that portion 21 of the conversation, there are large portions that whoever 22 transcribed that marked as inaudible. I want you, based 23 on your -- look at this document, if you can base it on 24 your independent recollection of that discussion, and if
() 25 you can tell me whether you recall basically having a NEAl R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
,~
2712 1 discussion with Mr. Mosbaugh indicating the fact that Mr.
2 Mosbaugh, unlike all of the other managers at the Vogtle A)
\
3 facility, engaged in a large effort to correct the problem {
4 before it was identified, and that the operation of Plant 5 Vogtle was such --
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Kohn, I can't figure out 7 what this question is yet. Just see if you can break it 8 up somehow. i 9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Okay. ,
10 Mr. Rogge, do you recall telling Mr. Mosbaugh 11 that out of all of the managers at the site, Mr. Mosbaugh 12 was the person who would engage in a large effort to, when 13 conducting a regulatory matter, make'sure that he did it :
14 right the first time?
15 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes. Well, I don't really see ,
16 what -- I don't remember the conversation, but my general ;
17 impression of Mr. Mosbaugh always was that he was very 18 good at engineering issues, disciplines, and was 19 dedicated.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, I think you answered 21 it.
22 And do you recall telling Mr. Mosbaugh that, l 23 generally, the management at Plant Vogtle could not build 24 the same -- do you recall telling Mr. Mosbaugh that it was ;
O 25 y - r obeerveti - thee he w-1d bu nd e e11tv comg1ience NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND FA'.;4 SCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
2713 1 into a project beforehand, and that the management at 2 Plant Vogtle would wait until after a problem was e~r
(_/ 3 identified and then put a lot of resources into it at that 4 time?
5 MR. BARTH: Objection, Your Honor. This has 6 nothing to do with misstatements to the NRC regarding the 7 illegal license transfer, or improperly withholding 8 information from the NRC regarding illegal license I
9 transfer.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: What's the relevance?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, it goes to just 12 the larger issues in this proceeding -- character, 13 competence and ability to abide by regulatory O 14 requirements, and --
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Character and competence in 16 this proceeding is only in there to the extent that you 17 have issues in this case. I will sustain the objection.
18 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: I don't 19 believe, Mr. Kohn, we've had any testimony by Mr. Mosbaugh 20 on the engineering issue in this proceeding.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, do you recall 22 during'the same conversation where you told Mr. Mosbaugh 23 that you would disagree with 75 percent --
24 MR. BARTH: This has been asked and answered,
( 25 if I may save you the trouble, Mr. Kohn, so you don't have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS j 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 234 4433
f 2714
-LT ;
1 to repeat yourself. .
)
- 2. MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I don't think so. Let me i
-O' 3 -rephrase the question.
l i
i 4 Do you recall the portion of the transcript !
5 that you were shown which mentioned the 75 percent? j 6 WITNESS ROGGE: You had me read that earlier.
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. Do you recall in that 8 same conversation asking Mr. Hobby -- excuse me, 9 Mr. Mosbaugh about the Section 210 process, because you I 10 were curious about it in case you needed to file one? j 11 MR. BARTH: Counselor, our usual courtesies. ,
i 12 WITNESS ROGGE: Could you refresh me on what a l 13 210 is? [
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: That's the --
15 MR. BARTH: Thank you, Mr. Kohn.
i 16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: In fact, let me rephrase my i 17 question. Do you recall -- l 18 MR. BLAKE: Wait, Mr. Kohn, please. !
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, do you --
20 MR. BARTH: I object to the question, Your f f
21 Honor.
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I've withdrawn it, and I'm :
23 going to rephrase it. j t
24 Mr. Rogge, do you recall having any }
O 2s diecueeione with Mr. Moesemeh escut eny gotentie1 need you !
l NEAL R. GROSS i COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS j 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2715 1 may have about filing a section 210 proceeding? I think, 2 first, you asked me what a 210 proceeding was. That's a
{ 3 discrimination proceeding prohibiting discrimination in 4 the nuclear industry.
5 MR. BARTH: Objection, Your Honor, to this 6 line of questioning, which is unrelated to whether these 7 people have made a misrepresentation, which would induce 8 us improperly to think who controlled or ruled the Vogtle 9 facility.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: What's the relevance?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, it goes to the 12 vitness' state of mind while he was at the Vogtle 13 facility.
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Is it a credibility issue? :
15 Are you trying to destroy his credibility?
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It could relate to that, 17 Your Honor.
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It goes to his state of mind 19 in what way? ,
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: While he was at the Vogtle 21 site.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: But why is that relevant, his l 23 state of mind at the Vogtle site? j 24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Because he has testified to 25 his observations at the Vogtle site.
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2716 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Do you mean you're going to 2 try to show that his observations are all improper?
O 3 MR. MICHAEL KOHN No, Your Honor.
4 MR. BARTH: This ind of questioning, Your 5 Honor, goes with voir dire, which he can bring in a 6 psychiatrist to show that's he unbalanced if he wants. It 7 doesn't belong here.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I would not want to do 9 that, Your Honor, and I wouldn't suspect that would even 10 --
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The objection is allowed.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Rogge, would you look 13 at page 6 of your testimony? And if you'd look at O 14 question 5, your answer there begins, "GPC was in control '
15 of Vogtle operations." Do you see that?
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: This is page -- oh, right.
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And was your response drawn 18 from your concept of control as identified in Georgia 19 Power's FSAR?
20 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't specifically know what 21 you mean by that. It's drawn in the context of my 22 understanding of GPC, who they were, and who ran the 23 plant.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And is that understanding 25 based in part on ycur knowledge of what is contained in NEAL R. GROSS COURT HEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 R60DE ISLAND AVENUE, N W ,
(202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 234 4433 1
l 2717 l 1 the FSAR?
2 WITNESS ROGGE: The FSAR, the tech specs, and l 3 the interviews that I conduct with people.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I call Mr. Allenspach's and 5 Mr. Hood's attention to question 9 on page 8. You were 6 referring to a contractual agreement. Can you tell me 7 what contractual agreement you are referring to? My 8 question is, have you reviewed this contractual agreement?
9 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Yes. We looked at -- I 10 looked at the contractual agreement.
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you know if that 12 contractual agreement was ever -- was it approved or in 13 any way -- does the NRC have any approval process for 14 these contractual agreements? r 15 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: No.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Do you know if the 17 contractual agreement was reviewed to see if it was in 18 accordance with ANSI standards?
19 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: No. And I guess at this 20 point, what is the date of that agreement?
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I don't know. I'm only 22 looking at your testimony.
23 I call your attention to page 10 of your 24 testimony, question 11, Mr. Allenspach and Mr. Hood. It
( 25 states in the middle part of your answer, "There was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2718 1 insufficient information to conclude that Mr. Farley 7,s 2 exercised control over Vogtle." Do you see that?
b 3 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And then, on the bottom, i 5 response to question 12, you respond as to what 6 information you reviewed, and I notice you indicate you 7 reviewed some deposition transcripts. Is there a listing 8 of the deposition transcripts you reviewed?
9 WITNESS HOOD: No , there is not. ,
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Isn't it true you did not 11 review the July 25, 1994, deposition transcript of 12 Mr. Farley?
13 WITNESS HOOD: That is correct. -
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Isn't it true that you did 15 not review deposition transcripts in the Hobby v. Georcia .
16 Power proceeding?
17 WITNESS HOOD: I believe I may have looked at 18 portions of the transcripts. I don't think there would 19 have been -- I don't think I ever reviewed an entire 20 transcript.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is it possible that the 22 content of those deposition transcripts which you have not 23 reviewed, and the other factual information that you were 24 not aware of, could lead you to draw the -- to challenge
( 25 your assertion that there is insufficient information to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2719 1 . conclude that Mr. Farley exercised control over Plant 2 Vogtle?
'b,-m 3 MR. BARTH: I object to the question. I see 4 the Chairman is already smiling at everybody. This is so 5 speculative. Anything is possible. The Staff will 6 stipulate to that. I stipulate to that if a deposition in 7 the -- l 8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I've answered questions about 9 possible in hearings because that's true. If you want to 10 change the word from "possible" to something more 11 meaningful, we can ask the question.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is it true that a single 13 statement in a deposition would alter your view on who was 14 in charge at Plant Vogtle? Let me rephrase it. If 15 someone -- if you read a deposition, I'm not saying that 16 this is contained in any deposition, but for an 17 illustrative point of view, if you read a deposition which 18 Mr. Farley -- of Mr. Farley where he said, "I was in 19 control, and I bossed Bill Dahlberg around," could that 20 change your opinion?
21 MR. BARTH: Objection, Your Honor.
22 MR. BLAKE: Objection to that.
23 BOARD EXAMINATION 24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Are you concerned about the 25 possibility that having read those depositions could NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
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2720 1 change your opinion about who is in charge of the plant? )
I 2 WITNESS HOOD: I think it's highly unlikely
(~h l
%/
3 that material I have not read would -- is likely to change ;
l 4 my mind, change my conclusions.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: No , that -- but my question ,
I 6 is whether you're concerned that your not having read it 7 resulted in your being incompletely informed.
, 8 WITNESS HOOD: Thank you. That is a different 9 question than I answered. No, I am not.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And what's the basis for not 11 being concerned?
12 WITNESS HOOD: I feel I've looked at enough 13 material to have a firm -- to feel quite certain about my O
\~# 14 conclusion.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. I have a couple of 16 questions along this same line. Did you ever attend, any 17 of you ever attend one of the meetings that Mr. Farley 18 held at the plant?
19 WITNESS HOOD: I've never been -
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Excuse me, in Birmingham.
21 MR. BARTH: There was only one at the plant, 22 Your Honor.
23 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: No.
24 WITNESS HOOD: No. l i ) 25 WITNESS ROGGE: No.
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~, ,
h
[ '2721 l l' CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And were you people aware-i
. 2 that Mr. Farley held some Southern Company -- a Southern i
..O:
3 Company position in addition to being the Director of i 4 SONOPCO and of -- and later of Southern Company? ,
Yes, I 5 WITNESS HOOD:
6 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: Yes.
i.
i 7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And do you have any idea, in 'f 8 the capacity of his job for Southern Company, what his 9 responsibilities were with respect to Georgia Power f f
10 officials? ,
11 WITNESS HOOD: Mr. Farley had -- I believe in 12 that sense, he was still guiding the formation of the .
13 operating company and had not yet -- in the earlier days, ;
4 :
14 he had that responsibility of the planning that would -- i 15 for SONOPCO.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Did you know he also had some 17 responsibility for budgeting? I r
18 WITNESS HOOD: Certainly. He was head of the l 3
19 holding company, basically. He does have a responsibility ;
20 from the parent company level in his position to -- he has 21 an obligation to his stockholders to assure some kind of 22 control over budgets. )
l 23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Did you know that Mr.
24 Mcdonald was aware of the need to have a very firm line 25 between nuclear and non-nuclear matters in terms of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W. j (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344433 ' ]
i
. _ ~ -
2722 1 chain of command?
2 WITNESS HOOD: Did we know it at any point in 3 time? I think the question is independent of the time.
4 It has always been my impression that that was the case, 5 yes.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And he knew that was a 7 regulatory requirement, too, didn't he?
8 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, sir, he did.
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Now, under those 10 circumstances, would you expect him to disclose anything 11 about the informal use of power by Mr. Farley?
12 WITNESS HOOD: The informal use?
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Informal. You know, the kind 14 of leadership we were talking about --
15 WITNESS HOOD: The informal use of power.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: -- before. It's like you 17 suggest something and someone does it. Would you expect 18 Mr. Mcdonald to ever tell you if that happened? l 19 WITNESS HOOD: If it related to the control of
)
l 20 the Vogtle facility or any of the facilities, I think he j 21 would have an obligation to say that. But if it related 22 to other matters, no. l 23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, did you ever ask him 24 any questions in which you inquired about informal
() 25 influence by Mr. Farley?
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2723 1 WITNESS HOOD: I believe during the 2 depositions he was asked that question, during his oral ,
() 3 depositions. And my understanding is that with respect to 4 the control of Vogtle he was quite adamant that he was the 5 one that was in -- he himself was in control, and he did 6 not take direction from Mr. Farley in those matters.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And do you know whether there 8 was any influence on Mr. Mcdonald with respect to --
9 strike that. Do you know if there are any general 10 policies that were adopted by Mr. Farley which were 11 relevant to the nuclear area?
12 WITNESS HOOD: Mr. Farley had responsibilities 13 with respect to the industry, what we call " generic" A
kJ 14 aspects. I don't know if that's the frame of your 15 question, if you're asking me if he ever had decisions in 16 that respect. He was very active in generic-type 17 activities for the nuclear power plants.
18 But if your question goes to policies with 19 respect to control of specific -- particularly with 20 respect to the GPC plants Vogtle and Hatch, my 21 understanding is he never did.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. And were you aware 23 that the decision process in Southern Nuclear often 24 involved discussions -- may have sometimes involved fs
(_) 25 generic discussions that were relevant to all of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS ,
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. . , . . . . . ... .~ . . .. - . -. - . - ,
m 2724 1- plants?. l 2 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, I am. I would expect 10 3 that.
4 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And would you expect, as a 5 result.of that, that there are no policies at Georgia j 6 Power that are different from the policies at Alabama. ;
d 7 Power?
8 WITNESS HOOD: Policies in what context, sir?
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: That there are no -- that the 10 --
let me try to remember the question that I asked. That 11 the Farley plant and the Vogtle plant have procedures that 12 conform to one another, that there are no important 13 differences.
O 14 WITNESS HOOD: Are we talking about policies ,
15 with respect to the way plants are controlled or -- I'm.
16 not sure I understand the -- >
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, let's start with that.
18 In the area of control of a plant, are you aware of 19 differences between Farley and Vogtle?
20 WITNESS HOOD: Not in their policies, no.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Would.it surprise you if, in 22 fact, all of the policies in Farley and Vogtle were the !
23 same, all of the principal decisions about how you operate ,
24 a plant?
25 WITNESS HOOD: I believe it to be the same NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N.W.
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. , , _ - . - __ _ ._. _ _ . . _ - _ . . . _.m . _, _
i 2725 -
1 thing. ,
2 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. I have no further 10" 3 questions. i 4 Mr. Kohn, do you want to finish? r 5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, I had finished i
6 when you begun, but I only have one follow-up question.
7 ' CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) 8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Hood, you indicated 9 that you were aware of Mr. Farley's positions with respect ,
10 to the Southern Company?
, 11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
12 MR. BLAKE: And when did you learn of that?
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm sorry, Just one second.
14 I want to hear this answer.
15 WITNESS HOOD: I learned-it --
I 16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I'm sorry. Please continue. ;
17 WITNESS HOOD: I learned it shortly after it. ,
18 occurred, because we in the NRC received an announcement 19 .from -- I believe from Mr. Hairston, from someone to that i
20 effect.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I have not seen that 22 announcement, so I'm a little -- I'm not sure what you're l 23 talking about. -
24 WITNESS HOOD: Unless I'm confused, there was 25 an -- there was a --
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2726 1 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I saw an announcement 2 indicating that Mr. --
p_
3 WITNESS HOOD: A letter announcement.
4 MR. BARTH: There's no question pending before 5 the witnesses.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I've seen an announcement 7 indicating that correspondence should be routed to 8 Mr. Hairston or Mr. Mcdonald when -- after they joined the 9 organization, and I think it was in the May '88 timeframe 10 or something. But I'm not aware of any other 11 announcement. Can you tell me what you're referring to?
12 WITNESS HOOD: I'm recalling an announcement 13 that --
O k# 14 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Kohn, unless you're baiting 15 the witness, could I refer you to a demonstrative evidence 16 document, and without -- page 3, that you're not aware.
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Whose document is that?
18 MR. LAMBERSKI: Your Honor, this is the 19 chronology.
20 MR. BARTH: This is B to Mr. Hairston's 21 testimony.
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: There's nothing in that 23 document that changed my opinion.
24 MR. BLAKE: And I spoke too quickly when I
() 25 referred. I am confident I have seen it, and I apologize NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2727 1 to Mr. Kohn for that interruption.
2 WITNESS HOOD: What I'm referring to, I recall
( .
3 seeing a letter from Georgia Power announcing certain 4 promotions within the organization.
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: All right. Well, if the 6 letter came from Georgia Power, they wouldn't announce ,
7 Mr. Farley's promotions, would they?
8 WITNESS HOOD: I may have misspoke. When I --
9 I wasn't really thinking about -- I guess I shouldn't have 10 -- maybe -- just a minute.
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It may be a matter that's 12 best handled as a -- as making a request for this document 13 to be looked for afterwards, unless you think you have it 14 there.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I don't believe there is 16 such a document. I'm not aware of one at least.
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well --
18 BOARD EXAMINATION 19 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: May I ask if 20 the witness is searching for the document?
21 WITNESS HOOD: No, sir. I am trying to 22 refresh my memory of a particular letter which I recall !
23 seeing.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Please proceed.
25 WITNESS HOOD: I think I'm referring to a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS i 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2728 1- submittal.thatswas made on the Alabama Power Company 2 docketifor Farley, the Farley plant, and it was in !
( k. 3 connection with our ongoing licensing transfer activity on 4 that plant.
5 In a letter of June 20, 1991, they reported j 6 some organizational changes. On May 21, 1991,- the Board j i
. . t 7 of Directors for Southern Nuclear named Joseph M. Farley, 8 the President and Chief Executive Officer of Southern 9 Nuclear, as Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive ;
10 Officer of Southern Nuclear. It also went on to announce t i
11 -- that same letter went on to announce other changes as :
12 well. That was the letter that I was referring to. '$
13 CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) !
( 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Is it your testimony, then, l
15 that prior to June 20, 1991, you're not aware of any such l
)
16 communication? '
17 WITNESS HOOD: I believe that'was the earliest !
18 communication of which I was aware. i I
19 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I have no further :
1 20 questions, Your Honor. f 21 BOARD EXAMINATION 22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I have one. In the course of 23 this proceeding, gentlemen, was there any evidence t
.24 introduced that suggested that Mr. Farley was concerned in t
-( } 25 Georgia Power matters that you were surprised he was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N.W.
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[
\
2729 ,]
1 . involved in?-
.. 2 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: In~my opinion, no.
^
3 WITNESS HOOD: None.
1 4 WITNESS ROGGE: My opinion is the same. ;
i
'5 RECROSS EXAMINATION )
l 6 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Kohn asked the panel, and I ;)
7 think you in particular, Mr. Hood, whether or not you had
-l '
8 read Mr. Farley's deposition that Mr. Kohn took this past 9 summer and your answer was "no." Did you attend that ,
10 deposition?
11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes, I did. r I
12 MR. BLAKE: And was there anything in the 13 course of that deposition which causes you today to alter
() 14 the testimony that you've given and the opinions that :
15 you've stated? l 16 WITNESS HOOD: No, there was not.
17 MR. BLAKE: In your testimony, on page 10, at 18 the end of your answer to question 11 you refer to some 19 pages out of the Director's Decision. You cite 37 NRC 317 20 to 22, and 345. Are you gentlemen aware of issue 18 in i 21 this proceeding? Mr. Hood, in particular, do you know 22 what issue 18 is?
23 WITNESS HOOD: Not by number, no.
1 24 (Laughter.) j
~
25 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Hood, I'd like to show you a NEAL R. GROSS ]
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I 2730 )
1 document which in this proceeding is Intervenor's js 2 prehearing statement and ask you to take a look at that, k..)
3 the bottom of page 40. There are remarks elsewhere in the :
1 l
4 document, so please --
5 WITNESS HOOD: Just the bottom of page 40, 6 item 187 f 7 MR. BLAKE: Yes. l 8 WITNESS HOOD: I've read it.
9 MR. BLAKE: And does that refresh you that 10 --that issue 18 in this proceeding?
f 11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
12 MR. BLAKE: And do you have before you a copy 13 of the Director's Decision that you referred to in your O 14 testimony?
15 WITNESS HOOD: I don't believe I do. No , I do 16 not.
17 MR. BLAKE: In the document that I've just 18 provided you, do you recognize this as the Director's 19 Decision that's referred to in your testimony?
20 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
21 MR. BLAKE: Referring you to page 323 in the 22 document, is the issue that's addressed on page 323, 23 carrying over to the top of page 324, issue 18 in this 24 proceeding?
25 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2731 1 MR. BLAKE: And do you confirm today, as you 2 have in your response to question 13 with respect to
,s L) 3 others as well, that you're aware -- are you aware of any 4 information which would alter your view as'it was stated 5 in -- the view which was stated on pages 323 and the top 6 of 324?
7 WITNESS HOOD: No, I am not. -
8 MR. BLAKE: And so, you're able to confirm the 9 conclusions in the decision, that portion of the decision 10 as well? :
11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes. 1 12 MR. BLAKE: Thank you.
13 I have no more questions.
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Barth?
15 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 16 MR. BARTH: Mr. Rogge, I believe you testified 17 that you attended the meeting with the commissioners on 18 Vogtle at which Mr. Mcdonald left Mr. Hairston's name out 19 of the chain of command, is that correct? r 20 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
21 MR. BARTH: At that time, were you aware that 22 Mr. Hairston was in the chain of command --
23 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes.
24 MR. BARTH: -- without Mr. -- were you on .
( 25 site, the Vogtle site, in the month preceding that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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>N 2732 o
}
l' meeting, or were you a resident inspector?' I don't know 2 --
( l 3 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes. !
4 MR. BARTH: -- what your job was. These are ;
5- blank questions. Did you have big power from Washington l 6 come down to visit the site, one of the commissioners, f 7 several months before the meeting?
8 WITNESS ROGGE: Every commissioner has been to l
9 Vogtle at that time, to come down and see the site. I f
10 don't know the exact dates of those. ,
i 11 MR. BARTH: Within a month or so before the 12 meeting in Washington, did you have commissioners on site 13 visiting the facility? !
O 14 WITNESS ROGGE: I believe so, but I don't know 15 the exact dates.
16 MR. BARTH: Putting the date aside -- I want [
t 17 it clear -- do you recall that a-commissioner was on site?
i 18 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes. ,
19 MR. BARTH: Do you recall if the management of 20 Georgia Power and the Vogtle facility was discussed with 3
21 the commissioner? [
22 WITNESS ROGGE: It should have been. I don't 23 recall it. l 24 MR. BARTH: I take it your answer is that you ,
25 do not recall it.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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- - , - ._,~ . . - . - - , . .. - . . .- .-, - - - - , . . - .-r - - .-
2733 l l
1- At the meeting before the commission in i
- . 2 : Washington in which Mr. Hairston's name was left out,. when
.f~y
~^ 3 you left that meeting did you have the feeling that i 4 because of the omission of Mr. Hairston's name that the 5 hand of Mr. Farley ruled and controlled the Vogtle
{
, +
6 facilities?
7 WITNESS ROGGE: Could you restate that again?
8 MR. BARTH: It was so flowery, I'd rather have l
9 the Reporter read it back. i
'10 Did you leave the meeting with the impression ;
11 that the omission --
12 BOARD EXAMINATION 13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think the basis isn't ;
O 14 established. In fact, I think -- did you -- were you ,
15 aware when you left the meeting that Mr. Hairston had been f 16 omitted?
17 WITNESS ROGGE: I didn't draw any significance 18 to it, no.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Had you realized his name was ;
20 omitted when you left? .
I 21 WITNESS ROGGE: I don't remember realizing it. :
I took Mr. Carr's question differently, i 22 23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 24 MR. BARTH: I have one final question O 25 eddreeeed to eech of you individue117 Heve you eteended i i NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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2734 _
1 these hearings throughout the evidentiary session here in 2 Washington?
V 3 Mr. Allenspach?
4 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have.
5 MR. BARTH: Mr. Hood?
6 WITNESS HOOD: I have.
7 MR. BARTH: Mr. Rogge?
8 WITNESS ROGGE: Yes. -
9 MR. BARTH: This has almost been asked by the i 10 Chairman, and almost by Mr. Blake; let me do it bluntly.
11 Have you heard any testimony, or are you aware of any 12 evidence that has been presented which would indicate to 13 you that during 1989 or 1990 that the operating license 14 was transferred from Georgia Power Company to the SONOPCO 15 project, or to its successor, the Southern Nuclear 16 Operating Company, Inc.?
17 Mr. Allenspach?
18 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I have not.
19 MR. BARTH: Mr. Hood?
20 WITNESS HOOD: I have not.
21 MR. BARTH: Mr. Rogge?
22 WITNESS ROGGE: I have not.
23 MR. BARTH: And my concluding question is, do 24 you have anything further you would like to say to the O 25 Liceneing Boerd with regerd to eny of the cencerne thee ie NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2735 1 has raised or have been raised here?
2 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I do not.
3 WITNESS HOOD: No.
4 WITNESS ROGGE: No.
5 MR. BARTH: I have no further questions, Your 6 Honor.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Just to clarify the scope of 8 one of those questions. Are you people familiar with 9 written exhibits that have been agreed to be part of this 10 record?
11 WITNESS HOOD: Yes.
12 WITNESS ROGGE: Somewhat familiar.
13 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I can't say specifically, O
U 14 no.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Thank fou.
16 Mr. Kohn?
17 RECROSS EXAMINATION 18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Hood, when you were 19 referring to written exhibits, are you referring to all of 20 the Department of Labor deposition and other deposition 21 transcripts that are going to be placed into the rec.ord 22 rather than taking live testimony?
23 WITNESS HOOD: I have read a good number of 24 those over the weekend. They were made available to us.
() 25 I participated in an exercise. But if your -- the thrust NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2736 1 of your question is all of them, no.
c 2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And have you reviewed the
'~'
3 transcript to date of this proceeding?
4 WITNESS HOOD: I have not reviewed the 5 transcript o'. t.lis proceeding. I have been present during t
6 the proceeding.
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: So you have not considered 8 whether there's any -- as you sit here today, would you be 9 able to state whether there were any inconsistencies or 10 false statements that may be in the depositions, as 11 compared to what's in the trial testimony? Could you 12 actually make -- draw those conclusions today?
13 MR. BARTH: You'd better specify the O 14 depositions. You took 40 yourself, Mr. Kohn. We were not 15 part of the Department of Labor --
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: The ones that are --
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It's a fair question in light 18 of the general question that was asked before.
19 BOARD EKAMINATION 20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question is, are you 21 aware of any discrepancies between prior deposition 22 testimony and testimony at the trial? Actually, the 23 question was, do you think you would know?-
24 WITNESS HOOD: Are we talking the DOL?
25 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question was, do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2737 1 think that you would know if there were discrepancies 2 between prior testimony, in any place, and what was said b,
3 at trial?
4 WITNESS HOOD: Not necessarily.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The others?
6 WITNESS ALLENSPACH: I agree with Mr. Hood.
7 WITNESS ROGGE: I think I would have to study 8 the documents to determine that, not necessarily derive 9 it.
10 RECROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) 11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Now, what role would you 12 expect -- before this hearing commenced, what role would 13 you expect Mr. Farley to play during the site area
('T
\# 14 emergency?
15 MR. BT.RTH : That's outside the scope.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: This is not redirect.
17 MR. BARTH: Let's not start over again.
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: This is not recrors. Excuse 19 me. This is not responsive to anything else.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, maybe if I 21 could have a discussion outside the witnesses. I think it i 22 is relevant to something that was just raised. ,
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. If we could excuse the 24 witnesses for a moment. We'll get you in a moment.
O N/ 25 (Whereupon, the witnesses left the hearing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2738 1 room.)
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Mr. Kohn, O
a 3 very seriously, how long is this going to take? 3 s MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Just two or three j 5 questions, and I --
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. But what is the 7 relevance?
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I believe in response to I
9 your question, Judge Bloch, the witnesses indicated that 10 they were not surprised regarding Mr. Farley's role, and I 11 want to now ask them a specific question to see if they 12 were actually thinking about the site area emergency and 13 what they would really have thought his role would be .
O 14 there, because I think it is relevant as to what --
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Do you mean that he receives 16 information about a site area emergency?
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No. In particular, that he 18 was inside the GOOC referred to.
19 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE CARPENTER: Inside of 20 what?
21 MR. BLAKE: Michael, you're going to have to 22 be very careful with regard to your characterization of 23 the evidence in the case if you ask questions of this kind 24 at this juncture, because it was pretty clear -- I'm
/'
(_)s 25 giving you my impression now, since there are no witnesses NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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m 2739 1 here to hear it -- but it's pretty clear to me that given 2 hearing about this major event, Farley goes down and peeks g.
3 in and looks around. Now, I don't know what you're going 4 to get out of these witnesses, but I can see it's --
5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I think you -- let's just ask !
6 them -- you can ask the one question about his presence in 7 the GOOC. I know what the answer is going to be; you do, 8 too. But we can ask it if you want.
9 Do you think that these witnesses are going to 10 substantiate -- well, come on. Let's have them back, and 11 let's ask the question.
12 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, maybe I'll ask them a 13 different way.
14 MR. BARTH: You only got permission to ask 15 this way.
16 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: You're only going to be 17 asking this one question.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, I indicated that 19 there were three in this general area, and that was one of 20 them.
21 MR. BLAKE: Is there more discussion that 22 we're talking about here, Judge Bloch?
23 MR. BARTH: Let's finish this.
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It's the same -- I don't 25 think there's any more discussion.
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2740 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: He can ask the three. The 2 whole purpose is to see whether they would change their 3 mind based on specific things he is going to direct their 4 attention to, three specific things.
5 (Whereupon, the witnesses reentered the 6 hearing room.)
7 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Were you -- were any of you 8 gentlemen surprised to learn that Mr. Mcdonald did not 9 attend all that many Management Council meetings?
10 MR. BARTH: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, we got 11 the wrong guy, Your Honor.
12 MR. BLAKE: Is this the topic that was 13 prompted by your question, Judge Bloch? He is following O
\~' 14 up on your question.
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: He said he was going to 16 direct the witnesses' attention to three specific items to 17 see if that changed their minds.
18 MR. BARTH: And went into a discussion off the 19 record as to what thet was, and we had the discussion. I 20 didn't recall Mcdonald being part of it.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: He decided to change his mind 22 about that, but he said there would be three topics. And 23 he is only going to be asking three questions.
24 MR. BARTH: With apologies, I withdraw the
) 25 whoa.
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2741 l
1 BOARD EXAMINATION 2 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Were you surprised about the n)
(_
3 testimony in this hearing that you heard concerning how 4 frequently Mr. Mcdonald attended Management Council 5 meetings?
6 WITNESS HOOD: I understood that there was a 7 substantial period of time of almost a year or so when he 8 apparently was not at -- did not attend a Management 9 Council meeting. It didn't strike me as all that terribly 10 significant. I understood him to say that the attendance 11 was based pretty much on the agenda, and it's conceivable 12 that the agenda just did not command his presence.
13 RECROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Would you be surprised if 15 Georgia Power's agenda did not concern nuclear operations 16 for a year?
17 WITNESS HOOD: I would not have expected that.
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I have no further 19 questions.
20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Are there any further 21 questions to these witnesses? There being none, they may 22 be excused.
23 Thank you for your testimony.
24 MR. BARTH: Thank you, gentlemen.
() 25 (Whereupon, the witnesses were excused.)
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2742 1 MR. BLAKE: Mr. Kohn, we can agree that your 2 last question dealt with the Management Council, right, lv'i 3 the same -- the followup to the prior question?
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, I think the question 5 and answer speaks for itself.
6 MR. BLAKE: We can agree that what you were 7 following up on was the Management Council, and that's 8 what you were asking the witnesses about. Is that 9 correct?
10 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I think we'd have to ask 11 the witness what he was referring to, not --
12 MR. BLAKE: I just want to ask your intention 13 with the question.
[\ 14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: That was my intention.
15 MR. BLAKE: Thank you.
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: But I note for the record I 17 was not testifying, so you may want to ;1arify that if you 18 feel it's necessary.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Let's stop the side comments, 20 please. They're really not relevant at this point.
21 So we have to decide the schedule for the 22 remainder of the day. I know some people are anxious to {
23 get out of here. We need to have the exhibits that were 24 agreed to for the record. Can we do that?
( 25 MR. LAMBERSKI: Your Honor, there was a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W, (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2344433
2743 1 question-~ earlier by Intervenor. ;
2 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Actually, maybe we could go ;
O. 3 - off the record and have a discussion.about it.
1 j
4 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Off the record, if'ycu l 5 prefer. Do both sides prefer this off the record?
6 MR. LAMBERSKI: That's firte. l 7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay.
L 8 (Off the record briefly.)
r 9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: While we were off the record,
~
10 there was a discussion between Mr. Blake and myself .
11 concerning the time table'by which Mr. Blake would have to !
12 respond to Intervenor's Exhibits 143 and 144, which were 13 admitted with the specific provision that they would be 14 able to respond by affidavit, and Mr. Blakc said they 15 could do that within two weeks. .
16 Mr. Kohn?
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, Your Honor. The ;
18 reason, as I understand it, that Licensee was given that 19 opportunity was to create a record because they felt there r 20 was some surprise with respect-to their statements in the 21 interrogatetry responses.
22 What I would like to point out, that I think [
i 23 whatever prejudice or surprise happened was negated when f I
24 Mr. Williams was allowed to testify in this proceeding on j
.O- 25 rebuttal. He had first-hand knowledge of the events, and I
NEAL R. GROSS j COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS i 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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- * = -W - * - - -*--y ee ey-.ea e. _ . . . -.---+r p-. '
We -.~m
2744 1 he specifically testified as to what occurred and his role 2 in the --
(-
~
3 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We ruled that they could file 4 this affidavit. That's all that -- that's all that 5 counts.
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I understand that, Your 7 Honor, but I'd just like to note that Intervenor would 8 like to put on the record that they now feel prejudiced 9 with the fact that if Mr. Williams could testify as to 10 those things, not allowing Intervenor to file a response 11 we believe would be prejudicial.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, that's still the 13 ruling.
14 So where are we on the agreed exhibits?
15 Mr. Kohn?
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, we would agree 17 to follow your suggestion that Intervenor be allowed to 18 review it and file something on the record if any 19 corrections were necessary.
- 20. CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And by what time would you 21 file that?
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: We could file it also 23 within the two-week time period, probably even less than 24 that, but I'm certain it's an admin'.strative matter that
() 25 should only take a day or so to put together. So I would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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2745 1 say Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
2 MR. BLAKE: I'd like five or ten minutes to
.pr
\ 'l 3 sort this out before we determine that we need to leave 4 the record open for this. I can't imagine what 5 administratively would -- has caused this upset.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We'll go off the record.
7 (Whereupon, the proceedings were off the 8 record from 12:31 p.m. until 12 :4 0 p.m. )
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We'll go on the record for a 10 report on the' negotiations.
11 MR. BLAKE: Judge Bloch, I appreciate the 12 couple of minutes you allowed us.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Before you start, I want to O 14 report for the record that Judge Carpenter has left.
15 Continue.
16 MR. BLAKE: And the Board is going to continue 17 as a majority?
s 18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Yes.
19 (Laughter.)
20 MR. BLAKE: The parties have agreed on the 21 copies that now we'd be able to introduce into the record, 22 or have the Board accept, with precious few exceptions.
23 Let me outline the exceptions, and then we can go in 24 whatever the -- makes the most ministerial sense to get 25 all of the things that have been agreed on in.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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2746 1 The exceptions that I' understand are that in
,s 2 the Lee Glenn Department of Labor hearing transcript, U 3 which we had agreed to and there's no doubt about what's 4 correct, in the copies that were made there were some 5 pages inadvertently omitted, and we simply need to ensure 6 that the exhibit that gets to the Court Reporter has all 7 of the pages that were agreed to.
8 A second thing that we need to make clear for 9 the record is that where there were agreements on excerpts 10 from anyone's prior testimony or deposition testimony, we 11 have included in the copying the entire page, from where 12 the excerpt began and the entire page where the excerpt 13 ended. The record will reflect clearly, we all believe, n#
'- 14 where it was intended that the parties begin the relevant 15 material. But pages or lines at the top of the first page 16 or at the end of the last page of an excerpt may be in the2 17 exhibit, but is not meant to be expanding the relevant 18 excerpt. So it's imply --
19 CRAIRMAN BLOCH: Will it be easy just to look 20 at the document and to know which parts are fair and which 21 are foul? !
22 MR. BLAKE: No , you would not be able to just 23 look at the document. You would need to look at the 24 transcripts as well, where we have specifically stated
() 25 what line number. For example, if the parties had agreed NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W-(202) 234 4 433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
2747 1 .. ,
e 2 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I understand what you're l
() - 3 saying. Mechanically, for me, it's not going.to be so i 4- easy. But if the parties are going to object to citations i
5 to extra record material -- !
6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, maybe we could ,
7 resolve this by just giving one.to the Court Reporter, and j 8 someone take the effort today to just black out whatever 9 shouldn't be-blacked out. I don't need one. Mr. Blake i 10 doesn't need one in that -- but I think maybe the one that .
11 -- I 12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, so long as the 13 citations are only to the agreed materials, and the. -!
-( )- 14 parties can be assured of that, I'm not-going to be s
t 15 misled. My concern is that there could be inadvertent !
16 citations to material that's not in the record. {
i 17 MR. BLAKEt I-think all of the parties clearly f
18 understand what's in and what's out, Your Honor. If-that i
19 occurs, I'm sure it would be --
i 20 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: If it does occur, I would ;
f 21 expect the other parties to note it for me quickly.
22 MR. BLAKE: Yes, I would hope so. So that was {
. 23 one of the problem areas, and Mr.-Kohn rightfully wanted :
24 that clarified on the record. {
i
) 25 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Addison.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOFiTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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- , -w. e e-n .- -~ w. ,- ,m -
w ,>~w.-
2748 1 MR. BLAKE: .And, third, ~ is the Addison April' L , 2 1994 deposition taken in this proceeding. We have an r -
3 agreement on that deposition. The problem turns out to be 4 that the errata sheet that we included with the copying 5 isn't signed. And also, the version that we had copied 6 has some handwritten corrections in it, and we haven't had 7 time yet to determine whether or not those handwritten 8 corrections are the same as the errata sheet.
9, Mr. Kohn again wants to ensure that nothing is
'_ 0 amiss with regard to the corrections. And, therefore, 11 with regard to the Addison deposition, we need to do more 12 work to ensure that something in there won't cause a 13 substantive problem. And I think other than that one, all 14 of the others are correct.
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And Intervenor has to go to 16 make sure that they, in fact, received a correction to i
17 Mr. Addison's deposition, and whether the corrections that l 18 are here are such that further clarification would be 19 needed. I can't answer those questions at this time.
20 MR. BLAKE: I don't know exactly what that l
21 means. But to the extent the agreement somehow gets 2 ;' upset, we'll just have to cope with that in subsequent 23 filings as far as I know, Judge Bloch.
i 24 But with those understandings, I believe we're l 25 in the-position and probably it's best to do it off the l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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4
-2749
~
1 ' record,'to determine how mechanically we can do this in p ..
2 the most efficient manner with the Court Reporter.
CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I-would suggest just filing
~
'3 4 the documents in the-form they're in and replacing the [
5 .others when -- through a filing with the Board. Would l.
6 that be acceptable to the parties?
7 MR. BLAKE: Yes. And I expect that -- why 8 don't we -- why don't we take responsibility for that 9 ' filing, and we'll provide it to'you within one week after ,
10 talking'with the'other two parties to ensure that - -if we 11 don't have an agreement, we'll have to state that in there ;
12 I guess, but we'd undertake to provide the Board with -
13 anything that was necessary within a week.
O 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And I'd suggest that the 15 title of that say something in it for the record, 16 something like that so it could easily be told by the 17 title that it belongs to the formal record of this 18 proceeding. ,
I 19 MR. BLAKE: That's true.
20 Michael, are you all right with a week?
}
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes.
12 MR. BLAKE: Charles?
23 MR. BARTH: Sounds good to me.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: There are two items of 25 business, I guess, that we would like to finish before NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIDERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
]
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
~
2750 i 1
l' we're done. One is the schedule for findings, and the i
-l 2 other is the schedule for Phase II. That schedule for <
0 3 Phase-II could conceivably be put off to a telephone l
4 conversation next week, depending on how people-feel about 5 the efficiency of doing it now. .
6 So we start on suggestions for the i
.7 simultaneous findings in this case.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Your Honor, there's 9 actually another matter maybe we should have before that.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: What is that?
11 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I think you indicated you 12 were giving Mr. Mosbaugh the opportunity to submit 13 information on the record concerning statements, prior O 14 statements identified by Mr. Mosbaugh indicating his 15 recollection of the tape conversation concerning SONOPCO '
16 being like a family. Am I refreshing your recollection at a
17 all, Your Honor? .
18 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Not specifically enough'. Do ,
19 we know the transcript page?
I 20 MR. BLAKE: Nor mine. Say again, Michael. -I ;
t 21 didn'.t understand what you said. !
22 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. McCoy's statements f
23 about the tape concerning.SONOPCO like a family, and I 24 believe Mr. Blake made the assertion that there was 25 nothing in the record where Mr. Mosbaugh has ever made NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N.W.
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2751 :
ll 1 that fact known before~during the cross examination of Mr. i 2 Mosbaugh.
I 3 MR. BLAKE: What I asked Mr.'Mosbaugh was 4 could he point me at any written confirmation, anything.in 5- writing, which had raised it. And the answer was.ano."
i 6 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And I think that is where l 7 Judge Bloch allowed Intervenor the opportunity to submit i 8 into the record where that had, in fact, occurred.
9 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Ana so why don't we -!
10 provisionally file it on the grounds that -- with the 11 understanding.that you'll cite us to the transcript at l l
12 some point.
13 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, Your Honor, and --
14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Well, do you know the day? ;
15 It's Mr. Mosbaugh's testimony? !
16 MR. MICHAEL KOHN; Yes. :
17 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Me can probably find it .
18 quickly if we allowed that.
i 19 MR. MICIAEL KOHN: And the documents we would ;
20 be filing are the April 30, 1993, interrogatory questions ,
21 that Georgia Power Company filed in this proceeding, and' 22 Intervenor's I believe June 2, 1993, response, where .
I 23 Mr. Mosbaugh, on page 33, Intervenor states his 24 recollection of the conversation previously identified and LO. 2s etetee -- eete forth hie gereone1 memory end rece11eceion.
'i '
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2752 1 And the record should also indicate that at 2 the time this personal recollection was made the tape in O
3 question was in the sole custody of NRC, and that this !
l l
4~ statement of recollection is based solely on Mr.
- 5. Mosbaugh's mental recollection, not on review of the tape.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. These are his i
7 statements about whether he was asked about safeguards, or 8 something else?
~
9 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No. This'was the tape --
10 tape 259, in which -- it's been a subject -- which was 11 played in this proceeding, in which Mr. McCoy --
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I know what the tape was 13 about. What was the question to Mr. Mosbaugh where we O: 14 thought we'd allow you --
15 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It was asserted that 16 Mr. Mosbaugh had not previously identified anywhere on the i 17 record what his recollection of the tape was.
- 18. MR. BLAKE: I think there is some confusion j i
19 here, and I'm going to cite the Board to page, transcript l
20 page 2139. I didn't recall this -- the offering made to ,
21 Mr. Mosbaugh, but let me read --
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Wait a second.
I i
23 MR. BLAKE: It's the January 11 transcript, l P
24 page.2139.
25 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Got it.
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2753 1 MR. BLAKE: I'm reading from -- starting at
,, 2 line 4. "Mr. Blake: Do you know whether or not this V
3 topic was disclosed, Mr. Kohn, in the course of any of the 4 discovery as being one of Intervenor's concerns, or any of 5 the communications that were disclosed, asked for or 6 disclosed? We just ask that bottom-line -- or this 7 bottom-line question." " Chairman Bloch: Mr. Kohn, if you 8 want, there has been several things asked about. By the 9 end of this week, you could supplement the record if, in 10 fact, there are good answers to this." "Mr. Kohn:
11 Certainly."
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The question is, does this 13 relate to whether it's one of Intervenor's concerns?
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes, it does, Your Honor, 15 because it is Intervenor's response to interrogatory 16 question which -- let me find the question. Well, 17 question 12 is, " Describe in detail each specific" --
it's 18 interrogatory question 12. " Describe in detail each 19 specific incident which Intervenor intends to or may raise 20 at the hearing in this case in order to prove the Board-21 admitted contention, and with respect to each identify a) 22 through 1)," as to what we're supposed to identify.
23 In response to that interrogatory question, on 24 page 33, and for the record this is the first set of --
() 25 Georgia Power's first set of interrogatories and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W -
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2754 1 Intervenor's response to the first set of interrogatories.
2 On page 33, b). "To the best of Mr. Mosbaugh's
- h. 3 recollection, Mr. McCoy stated," and then he' states his 4 actual mentel recollection of the conversation. And he p
5 also states his recollection of the date and time of the 6 meeting, of the conversation, and I believe that should be 7 supplernented into the record, Your Honor.
8 And if the parties are unwilling or unable to 9 stipulate, we also have letters concerning communications L
10_ from the various parties indicating that the particular 11 tape in question, 259, was an NRC-retained tape to which 12 Mr. Mosbaugh did not retain a copy.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Mr. Blake?
14 MR. BLAKE: I haven't seen the documents. He 15 hasn't shared them with us previous to today, but it 16 sounds like it's responsive.
17 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Mr. Mosbaugh's recollection 18 is on page 33 of the response, which is I think the 19 seventh page into the document you're looking at.
20 MR. BLAKE: It looks to me like it is 21 responsive to my inquiry about discovery.
22 MR. BARTH: Your Honor, you've already ruled 23 that the tape is the best evidence, not anybody's --
24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: The question and response 25 was questioning Mr. Mosbaugh's independent recollection, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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l 2755 i 1 and I think this document demonstrates that Mr. Mosbaugh 2 had a clear, independent recollection of the conversation. ;
O 3- because he was able to reduce it to writing and submit it i 4 in interrogatory responses. l 5 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: The tape is the best j t
6 evidence, and the tape sometimes is hard to hear, so that 7 independent recollections, if they're true, are also :
8 helpful.
9 So we'will accept this an exhibit. We need an 10 exhibit number. Or, could it perhaps be put in the box i
11 that's about to be given to the Reporter? Give it a .;
12 number within that set? Could we bind it into the record 13 and just refer to it as pages to the transcript?
14 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Well, I was reluctant to do 15 that because of its length. ,
f 16 MR. BLAKE: Well, isn't the only thing of f 17 interest here the item B on page 33, Michael?
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Yes. And to --
19 MR. BLAKE: We could just read it. All we 20 need is just that, Judge Bloch.
21 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: And -- !
22 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: That's true. Why don't you 23 just read it in? :
24 "In response to" -- I'll read it in. "In 25 response to Georgia Power Company's first set of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W.
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~
J 2756 i
W 1 interrogatories dated April 30, 1993," one of , )
., ,z 2 Mr. Mosbaugh's responsive answers on page 33 of his :
U-3 response is in paragraph b) (quote), "To the best of 4 Mosbaugh's recollection, McCoy stated:" (colon), and then i
5 an indented paragraph, "SONOPCO is like a family. Say ,
6 someone from the outside, like INPO or the NRC asks you, 7 'How is your corporate engineering support?' You say, 'I-8 got the best engineering support in the world.'" There 9 are quotes around those statements.
10 Then, you turn around and get on the phone 11 with engineering and tell them you need that-DCR, or 12 whatever you are waiting for, and how they're not 13 supporting you. And then, at the end of that indented 14 quote, "This statement occurred during an in-house 15 coordination meeting for the August 1990 OSI and was 16 witnessed by the entire management staff." Could you 17 clarify what OSI is?
18 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: On-site inspection.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Thank you.
20 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: It's the operational safety 21 inspection. And I'd like the record also to be clear that 22 at the point in time Mr. Mosbaugh made this recollection, 23 he was not in possession of the tape.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Thank you.
( 25 Now, the simultaneous filing schedule.
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. . . . - - - - - - .. . . . . . - _ ~ _ . . . ~
2757
'l MR. BARTH: Your Honor, before you -- does the l 2 Board want a copy'of tape 259? Because we have the '
- 3. original locked up.
i
- 4. CHAIRMAN BLOCH: No. ,
5 MR. BARTH: Why don't I have a copy made for l j
6 .the Board so you can play with it.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Oh, we will need a copy for 8 the record -- one, two, or three copies, I'm not sure.
9 But we will need copies for the record. ,
10 MR. BARTH: We'll get them and send them to i
11 the reporting company or the secretary, whoever gets them. I t
12 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Okay. !
13 MR. BLAKE: I have two other items.
i O 14 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I also want to comment on the i 15 record that in the off-the-record time before Ms. Young 16 asked whether the Board was still interested in whether 17 the Staff had had safeguards conversations with Georgia i
18 Power, she said she had not been able to identify any 19 telephone calls that had occurred, and we said we were no 20 longer interested because of the exhibits that had been l t
21 introduced into the hearing record. ,f 22 MR. BLAKE: I have two other items. One is t
, 23 with regard to the exhibits. I need the record to l 24 reflect, really, two clarifications for what already ;
- O 25 exiete in the eereemenee. One 1e with regerd to aere1d i NEAL R. GROSS !
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2758 ;
l 1 Johnson's October 2, '90 deposition. What we had agreed l
2 to and where it was stated previously was at transcript r^s L
(_)' 3 page 10144, line 23. ,
l 4 And when we look at that transcript, I want 1
i 5 the record to reflect accurately that the agreement with 6 regard to Gerald Johnson was pages 1 through 6, and 7 stopping at line 10 on page 6. The second thing -- and 8 there is no page 10 involved, so that there's no -- okay. ;
l L 1 l 9 The second thing that the record should 10 reflect so there will be no doubt is with regard to the 11 agreement on Charles McCrary. That was stated at 12 transcript page 10188. And at line 6, I'm told that there 13 is confusion, or the Reporter didn't understand what the ;
14 line number was on page 53. And it should have been line 15 8. And now, hopefully, we have an accurate record as 16 well, so that we won't goof you up in our citations. l l 17 The second matter, Judge Bloch, was that the 1
18 Board asked --
19 MR. BARTH: Did you discuss the Maribeth 20 Williams -- these are -- the last questions are Mr. Rogge?
21 I'm sorry. I have another piece of paper Mr. Kohn and I i
1 22 were discussing about.
23 MR. BLAKE: Judge Bloch, I think you asked, 24 and I had the transcript page here in front of me, but I
() 25 don't have it at the moment, about whether -- the i NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRr3ERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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l 2759 1 questions and answers were with regard to the Nuclear
- _ 2 Operations overview Committee. And you asked whether or
(_) 3 not --
whether the parties could get together and provide 4 for the Board any minutes or meeting minutes with regard 5 to that committee. And we -- the transcript page was 6 1538.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I recall having said that, 8 yes.
9 MR. BLAKE: Yes.
10 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It would be helpful because 11 there was a lot of testimony about the importance of it 12 and oversight for Georgia Power.
13 MR. BLAKE: We have. We have had them located
<O
\/ 14 and shipped up here, a whole collection from March of '88 15 through January of '91, but the other parties haven't seen 16 them. So what I'd prefer to do is to give this to the 17 other parties. We're prepared to submit it. We're 18 prepared to give it to the Board in response to the 19 Board's request.
20 But since the other parties haven't done it, 21 we just haven't physically had time to do it, I think it's 22 best that we give it to the other parties and then set, 23 again maybe next Friday, another week before w' give it to 24 you, to allow the other parties to say, " Yeah, that's fine 25 with us," or -- or whatever they will say.
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2760 1 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: It seems fair.
2 Do the parties object?
]
() 3 MR. BARTH: No objection, Your Honor.
i 1
4 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: I do not object to 5 receiving this.
6 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And having a week to review 7 them.
8 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: No.
9 MR. BLAKE: I think that's all I had. Just 10 the findings schedule is the only other item I have.
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: So it's now January 13th.
12 MR. BARTH: There is one other small thing.
13 Mr. Kohn and I could settle on the pages that you wanted O 14 bound in, Mr. Kohn, when you questioned Mr. Rogge. I 15 think we settled on -- we ought to put in one, which is 16 the cover, which we -- neither one of us had mentioned.
17 We ought to add pages 51, 52, 53, and 54. It's identified 18 at the bottom as '92 Project, 057155 is the last page.
19 It's the transcript of audiotape number 172, done by 20 Maribeth J. Williams.
21 I gave you -- I borrowed your copy and xeroxed 22 it and gave them back to you.
23 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Did we reserve a spot in the ]
i 24 record for this? I'm not -- !
() 25 MR. BARTH: Yes, Your Honor.
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2761 l 1 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Does'the Court Reporter l l
2 have a copy? ,
3 MR. BARTH: I just want your agreement, :
l 4 Michael, that those are the correct pages?
I have no objection.to !
5 MR. MICHAEL KOHN:
~6. these pages.
7 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We'll note for the record ;
8 that Mr. Barth has handed a copy of the document for I
9 insertion in the record.
10 MR. BARTH: Thank you, Your Honor.
11 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Let's go off the record to 12 get the scheduling set.
13 (Whereupon, the proceedings were off the 0 14 record from 1:04 p.m. until 1:24 p.m.)
15 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: During the break, we adopted 16 the following schedule. Georgia Power will file its .
17 findings by February 13th, Intervenor will reply by 18 February 23rd, Staff will respond by March 6th, and 19 Georgia Power may file its rebuttal brief on March 13th.
20 We also agreed to have a telephone conference 21 next Tuesday at 10:00 a.m., to discuss scheduling for ;
22 Part 2 of this case. And we can congratulate Mr. Kohn for ,
23 his upcoming birth of a child. l 24 MR. MICHAEL KOHN: Thank you, Your Honor.
2d CHAIRMAN BLOCH: We are in adjournment.
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e r m- - w -- , ..--%, e t>yw -v v e w-
- i-
' 2762 1 (Whereupon, at 1:25 p.m. , the proceeding: in 2 the above-entitled matter were adjourned.)
s l
4 5
6 I
7 8
9 10 11 12 3
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CERTIFI.CATE This is to certify that the attached L) proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: HEARING IN THE MATTER OF VOGTLE GENERATING STATION UNITS 1 & 2 Docket Number: 50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 Place of Proceeding: ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced.to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
CORBETT RINER Official Reporter Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.
O NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
(202) 734-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344433 l