ML20057B596
| ML20057B596 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Three Mile Island  |
| Issue date: | 07/05/1983 |
| From: | Fitzgerald J NRC OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20049A457 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-92-436 SECY-83-268, NUDOCS 9309220295 | |
| Download: ML20057B596 (70) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:- _ ~ Mmanf M MM numef & amenf & & M M MAmanf fan arcg'oz l POLICY ISSUE July 5, 1983 SzCT-83-2ss (NEGATIVE CONSENT) For: The Commission From: James A. Fitzgerald Assistant General Counsel
Subject:
TRANSCRIPT REVIEW OF TMI-l RESTART MEETINGS (FOIA-83-320)
Purpose:
To provide OGC's proposed disposition of the Closed Meeting Transcripts responsive to FOIA-83-320 Discussion: On June 8, 1983 Jim Detjen of the Philadelphia Inquirer requested under the Freedom of Information Act transcripts of all closed Commission meetings between August 27,-1981 and May 10, 1983 at which Commission members discussed the restart of Three Mile Island, Unit 1 (TMI-1). The Secretariat identified fifteen transcripts responsive to that request. In our review of those transcripts we found five basic categories of discussion: (1) steam generator tube repairs;- (2) scheduling and procedural matters concerning the adjudication; (3)' substantive matters at issue; -(4) investigations; and (5) psychological stress. We will discuss each of those categories separately and identify excerpts we believe should be released. Those excerpts are attached to the proposed response. CONTACT: Rick Levi, OGC ~ 4-1465 Inictm3tba in Uns re&d was deieted ja a:c^6:e Mb iM F 6m o!!nlormation 3 9309220295 930428 P Act, uemptias.YN. 3 [] / PDR-FOIA
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r u, 2 / ( A. Steam Generator Repairs We informed the court in Philadelphia Newspapers, Inc. v. NRC that we would release portions of transcripts that' discussed matters outside of the restart proceeding.. ~ J f ( I i B. Scheduling and Procedural Matters Concerning the Conduct of the Adjudication 8 i i However, we re:ommend that the t J 1
- ~.. _ _ n,. 3 l C. Substantive Matters at Issue We recommend that w. D. Investigations I f / t' We /jN ~_ recommend -O, s< j ,h ~ w E. Psychological Stress 4 3 -~ mew
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f.- '$ s, 4 4 1 Recommendation: L,,.n i; +.... i -James A. Fitzgerald Assistant General Counsel Attachments: 1. Proposed letter to Detjen with excerpts from transcripts 2. FOIA request SECY NOTE: In the absence of instructions to the contrary, SECY will notify OGC on Monday, July 11, 1983 ~ that the Commission, by negative consent, assents to the action proposed in this paper. (The response time on this paper has been shortened per request of OGC in order to make a timely response to the FOIA request.) DISTRIBUTION: Commissioners OGC OPE SECY f fs J5 m
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a Appendix A [ LIST OF CLOSED COMMISSION MEETINGS 1 TMI-1 RESTART Date Title 1. 10/6/81 TMI-1 Restart 2. 11/6/81 TMI-1 Restart 3. 12/9/81 Discussion of Scheduling Matters Regarding i TMI-l Restart Proceeding 4. 12/21/81 Briefing on Contested Matters in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 5. 12/22/81 Affirmation / Discussion Session TMI-1 Restart Order 6. 1/20/82 Discussion of TMI-1 Restart Court Litiga-tion 7. 3/10/82 Discussion of TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 8. 9/10/82 Discussion of Contested Issues on TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 9. 12/1/82 Discussion of Immediate Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 10. 12/6/82 Discussion of Immediate Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding - 11. 12/9/82 Discussion of Immediate Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 12. 12/10/82 Discussion of Immediate Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding i 13. 12/17/82 Discussion of Immediate. Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 14. 1/13/82 Discussion of Immediate Effectiveness Issues in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding 15. 4/18/83 Discussion of Steps to Decision in TMI-1 Restart Proceeding ) i I
~. ~._..... 1 L t t 1 i ? ? 4. t i 2 I e - i P i ,i i I E Appendix B r I ~ k t R V f -f t i I f. I h L I i - E 6 r i f .t Y 3 i t t
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"/,'i *., JI '. : f"f/ l COMMISSION MEETING f- ~ 2 t!:a = cf: CLOSED Mu.wn4G v AFFIRMATION / DISCUSSION SESSION [?## U *) THREE MILE ISLAND UNIT 1 RESTART ORDER CA"'g: Ddcember 22, 1981 PAGES: 1 - 10
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Washington, D. C. i r _LLDERSOX ', REPORTLTG /"~- k. 400 vf 2 2 An., 5.W. W" "' :-- , D. C. 20024 "ala 8-~*: (202) 554-2245 y
1l f 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 3UCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 4 CLOSED MEETING S 8 AFFIREATION/ DISCUSSION SESSION 7 THREE MILE ISLAND UNIT 1 RESTART ORDER 8 Room 1130 1717 H Street, N.W. 9 Washington, D. C. 10 Tuesday, December 22, 1981 11 The Commission meeting was convened, pursuant to 12 notice, at 3: 45 p.m., NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the 13 Com mission,_ presiding. 14 PRESENT: 15 COMMISSIONERS: 16 NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman JOHN AHEARNE 17 PETER BR ADFORD VICTOR GILINSKY 18 THOMAS ROBERTS ' COMMISSION STAFFS 1g 20 SAEUEL CHILK, Sec re ta ry LEONARD BICKWIT, General Counsel 21 22 23 24 25 j 1 ALDERSON REPORTING OCMPANY,INO, l
{ a 7 1 IE9GII2IEgS 2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: General Counsel has l -3 distributed to' each of the Commissioners a TMI opinion, excuse me. I wonder if 4 majority opinion. Len, you might i 5 ve might have attention. 6 Len, you might walk us through that document. 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Can I ask you, I gath er 8 this was circulated to the Commissioners for whom it was t 9 done previously, is tha t righ t? 10 ER. BICKWIT: It was circulated to the 11 Commissioners who are in the majority on this ma tter. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I don't begrudge then this i 13 opinion, but that isn't the way ve have done business in the i 14 pas t. 15 ER. BICKWIT: It sometimes is the way ve do 16 business. Every now and then we get requests from a 17 Commissioner "to provide draf ting assistance, a piece of 18 drafting assistance. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But not for a Commission 19 20 opinion. 21 ER. BICKWITs And we provide it. On many 22 occasions, you have members of the majority who are trying to work out language in the final phases leading up to an 23 24 agenda planning session, and they are working with each 25 other to get it done, and this is just a variant on that ALCERSoN REPORTING COMP ANY, INC,
4 l3 1 theme. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It is not a variant, 3 because you are a Commission officer. I regard it as an 4 extraordinary breach. 5 ER. BICKWIT: I disagree. 6 COEBISSIONER GILINSKY: It is a practice we have 7 not followed in the past. 8 MR. BICKWIT. I have followed the practice of 9 providing draf ting assistance when I as asked to by a 10 Commission office, and on occasion by several. 11 COMEISSIONER GILINSKY: Suppose you. vere asked by 12 f our Commissioners to draft something you would not show r 13 fif th Commissioner? i 14 CHAIREAN PALLADINoa Was this not distributed to 1 15 all the Commissioners? 16 ER. BICKWITs It was distributed to all the 17 Commissioners only an hour ago. 18 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: That is a practical a s 19 vell as a substantive problem. 20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I thought all Commission ers ~ 21 had gotten it at the same time. I don't know when we got 22 i t. 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY I don't see any difficulty 24 about your office preparing opinions for one, two, three, 25 f our or five Commissioners. But others would, in view of I ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INO.
g. 1 this opinion, prepare their own opinion. I haven't actually j l 2 looked at the details of this, so I don't have any 3 substantive arguments here. But I think this is not a 4 practice ve ought to follow. S 3R. BICKWIT: The Commission is free to use the 6 Commission offices any way it likes. If you want to adopt 7 the stance that we vill not prepare anything for a 8 Commission office or for a group of Commission offices 9 without circ ula ting ' th a t to all of the Commission offices, 10 t ha t is a posture ve ran live with, we 'll b e happy to live 11 vith. But that has not been my understanding of the way 12 -- 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let me say, that is fine t 14 with me. But I do see a difference between doing something 15 for an individual Commissioner that relates to work that is l 16 going on here and draf ting basically a Commission opinion ~ ~ 17 which is not shown to some Commissioners. 18 HR. BICKWIT It was always understood that it 19 vould be shown to all Commissioners once it was agreed upon-20 by a majority. The request came from the Chairman's office 21 to respond to the dissents that had been circulated by you 22 and Peter, and we tried our hand at a piece of drafting that 23 might be found acceptable. 24 We furnished it to the Chairman 's office. The 25 Chairman 's office f urnished it to other members of the ALDERSoN REPCRTING COMPANY,INC,
~. 4 .) i ~ y-t f 1 majority to see whether it vas acceptable.- It was not -He circulated another j 2 acceptable to Commissioner Ahearne. 3 vesion. And I found it to be very similar to the 4 circumstance where members of a hoped f or majority are l 5 attempting to put something together in the final stages. j 6 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY Well, I will say, the j t 7 Chairman is o'bviously aware that it 'vas uncirculated. 4 8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Can I step in? I do not l' 9 see any problem with what you did up to -- I don't see any 10 problem with assisting, up to the point of when ve come to 11 affirmation right now. I think you're absolutely right and 12 I think we all have asked -- I know I have asked, I know you 13 have asked at times -- somebody in OGC to at least take a 14 cut at something. ) l 15 I think that is a good purpose that their office l 16 is there for. And if we a'sk him to take a cut at something, 17 I d on ' t think'.that he should be -obligated in doing that 18 drafting to distribute it to everybody. At some point when ] 19 a m ahority is working on an opinion, if that is formed, then 4 20 that ought to be distributed for everybody to develop j comments on, because it is the bringing it to affirmation i ~ 21 i 22 suddenly tha t is the surprise. I COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I must say, there's 23 24 something of a difference between the situation that is was. I am less i 25 analogous and the situation as I thought it i I ? i A1.DERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
3 c., 6 1 concerned with OGC sending it up to one office in response 2 to a request, whirh I gather is what happened, and then that 3 office circulating, then I am somehov vith OGC drafting a 4 majority opinion, sending it to three Commissioners and not 5 to the other two. I gather'that is not what happened. 6 ER. BICKWIT: I must say, I don't find a great 7 distinction there. But what did actually h appen -f ell on the ' 8 benign side of your distinction. 9 CHAIEMAN PALLADINO: I think 6ne of our prob 1' ems to is that we had so little time to get this out and it just 11 didn't come early enough for complete intersction. ~ 12 COMMISSIONER AHEABNE: And certainly I thought it 13 had been distributed. 14 CHAIEMAN PALLADIN04 I thought in this pa rticula r 15 cas e, since it was trying to represent this balance of views 16 as again taking into account the majority views, I thought 17 it had to be ' distributed to all. So that was a failure of L 18 min e. 19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORDs All of that having been 20 said, I have skimmed it and don 't see any problem in going 21 forward with it. I don 't know whether I would vant to 22 modify a word-or two in my views. I haven't read it that 23 closely. But if you want to go forward on that basis, given 24 the practiral problems of the Commission's schedule over the 25 next ten days and the need to get this thing out, I have no ) at menet N nepam Nr: f Ovoavv WC.
j. 3: . ~ i 1 o bj ec tio n. 2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I gather, though, there was 3 one error, one dif f erence between -- 4 3R. BICKWIT: Tou now have got two possible ways 5 f or the najority to go, and our hope was simply tha t th e 6 majority could iron out the difference and that we could 7 move from there. 8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I gather you felt we should-9 keep the longer version ? 10 MR. BICKWIT That's right. 11 CHAIREAN PALLADINO: I thought you were going to 12 -- 13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: He tried to reach me. 14 Unfortunately, the times he tried to reach me I really was 15 una vailable to talk. 16 CHAIBMAN PALLADINO: Was there any particular 17 point in keeping the longer version? 18 ER. BICKWIT: The only difference is that the 19 longer version I think will confuse 99 percent,of the public l 20 and the shorter version vill conf use 99.5 percent. I find 21 the shorter version equivalent in substance, but 'just a 22 little bit more cryptic than what we were able to draft.. f 23 And so I would recommend the longer version. But the 24 shorter version is fine. 25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I can only say, I can't i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
~. 8 1 speak to the percentage of conf used people,- but there vould ~ 2 be at least one less confused with the short version. ~- 3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: The uncertainty between 99 4 and 99.5 is at least 20 percent. 5 MR. BICKWITs I guess I would recommend to the two ' ~ 6 other members of the majority that you support Commissioner 7 Ahearne's version if you want to get an order 'out. 8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I was about to suggest that. 9 I'm ready to support Commissioner Ahearne's short version. 10 COMMISSIONER B0BERTS: So am I. 11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I gather Commissioner Rob'erts 12 is. And I don't know how Commissioner Gilinsky and 13 Commissioner Bradford feel on the order. ~ 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY I do not propose to vote 15 on this one. 16 CHAIPHAN PALLADIN0s How about you, Pete? ~ Well, as I say, I think 17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: 18 the practical need of having an order is such that I have no 19 objection to going forward with it. I do want,to read it a 20 little more closely and see whether it requires any editing 21 to my s e par a t e view. My disagreement is only with part of 22 the order in any case, and if I have to sharpen my pencil a 23 little as to that I will do that and circulate the changes, 24 changes to my views, not to the order. CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: To your views, okay. Well 25 &F MCCC"4 C1"DACPNF, PC8JD &NV fNC
9 t* 1 then, you vote in f avor of the order, subject to -- are you 2 going to append some views to this? 3 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD: That's right. 4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Can we have a vote on 5 approving this? 6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: In effect, I'm voting for 7 the schedule and against th e provision relating to requests B for a stay. I don't know if Sam can keep that straight. 9 MR. CHILKa I'll keep it straight. 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: You know wha t he 's voting 11 on. Does that ronstitute a vote for the order? 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: In part. 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: All those in f avor of the 14 order as modified by Commissioner Ahearne? 15 (A chorus of ayes.) 16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Opposed? 17 (No response.) 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I guess you have abstained 19 and you have expressed your vote. 20 COMMISSIONER BB ADFORD: I have a partial vote. 21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: And you vill be adding some 22 additional views. 23 Any other items to come up before the affirmation 24 session? 25 MR. CHILKa None at all. ALDERSoN REPCRTING COMPANY,INC,
,g 3n 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: We-will stand adjourned._ 1 +:~- 2 (Whereupon, at 3:50 p.m., the meeting was 3 adjourned.) 4 5 6 4 8 t 9 10 11 ,12 13 14 i 15 i 16 17 18 19 20 21 22-23 24 25 ALDERSON REPCATING COMPANY. INC,
NUC2AR REGUI.A':'ORY CD.5eCESICN This 1-s 30 certif7 that the attached pecceedings before che COMMISSION MEETING is the =atter e r: CLOSED MEETING - AFFIRMATION / DISCUSSION SESSION THREE MILE ISLAND UNIT 1 RESTART ORDER
- Date of Prcceeding:
December 22, 1981
- Decket liu='c er:
- 1 a c.a c.' F. a c.a,s. 4..
Washington, D. C. ' sere held as herein appears, and tha: this is the crigi..al transer.. therecf for the file of the Ccc=1ssicc. Alfred E. Ward Official Reperter (Typed) ~ / / .AA / F 1 Official Repcrter (Sistature) e o O 4 6
(h fthth p hh(h(h(h(hh(hhphf(h(hhhfphfph(.hph(hrf)phrkkh{ g f(( [ ( f ( -g / 'o,, ~ UNITED STATES ![tM.,E NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION b n 1 WASH W GTON. 6.C. 20555 5 sr
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June 16, 1983 h r g= OFFICE OF THE M SECR ETARY s* 5: TO: Office of General Counsel p ~ SS o FROM: Samuel J. Chilk, Secretary b o. p
SUBJECT:
TRANSCRIPT O'F CLOSED KEETING (UNCLASSIFIED) Attached is the transcript from the Closed Commission F meeting held on Wednesday, January 20, 1982 Exemption (s) -5" 10 was (were) used to close the meeting. [*p The attached transcript and its attachments has been deter-N mined to contain, in whole or in part, information which the Commission is authorized under the Government in the Sunshine . ' ~ ~ Act, 5 U.S.C. 552b to withhold from public disclosure. This 3= y 'ranscript has been provided for use consistent with.Coit. mission
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4, The disclosure of any portion of this transcript to any person outside the Commission or, where appropriate, E h outside your immediate office is expressly prohibited. b This copy should be kept in a secure storage area and, when no longer needed, should be disposed of or returned to the e-cm Office of the Secretary. . p For information concerni.pg further disclosure of the transcript, i please contact the Secretary or General Counsel's office. I <= 't a J ur s s w p p i t I l
43 j' s 1 exchange comments and then we can get concurrence. ) 2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I guess there actually is a 3 vote sheet on 82-16. ~ ~4 MR. CHILE: There are vote sheets around. 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: On this particular portion of i ^ 6 it? ~ e-7 MR. CHILX: Yes. It might be clearer if I just e sent another vote sheet out. The vote sheet covers the { 9 whole paper and I think it covers a number of issues. 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I think specifically on this 31 issue. l 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: That will teach me to fill them out early. 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: All right. We had two other 14 questions, whether 'r not to instruct the staff to proceed o 15 with preparing an environmental impact assessmenE. 16 My own feeling would be to haye the staff so proceed 37 so that we don't haye to put j. )g things in series and in the event l that we need it we will at least have it under way. 3, I do gather it is going to take until around June 1st 20 !f t get an environmental impact assessment, at le ast that is 21 j what your paper says at a cost, I believe it said, of.S120,000, 22 ? but that w.e could get an indication by sometime in March whethe ~ g or not we are going to need an environmental impact statement. 7 Is that correct? 25 G3
t 'e I. 44 U .j{ 1 MR. BICKWIT: That was - our view. We are obviously 2 reflecting the staff views on this. I think you ought to
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L) .. g a speak to the staff directly. 4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: May we get the staff views -s on it? ~ i COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Also perhaps some description ! i 7 of what they have in mind. 8 MR. DENTON: We suffer from the problem of not havingl i 9 the order, also. So we don't exactlyknowwhattheCommissionj to has.in mind, t COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Or the court. j 33 MR. DENTON: I mean what the court has in mind, t 12 i Our present plan is to meet with the applicant this Friday 33 and see what work he had done in this area, retain the group 3, ~ that we had previous 1y used during the Krypton venting issue 33 t and some'of' our other.outside consultants *. ... ; -- c: j. g 2 We can deal more easily with issue number"two 37 6 which was the regional, economic impacts of restart, than we y 33 c a f can the. impacts on a single indivudal. t 3, 1 E We have no one on the staff who has a special skill 20 8 _in that area. So it will require that we contract out that g t part. There are extensive studies of stress already available a 22-1 2 'in the area and I think the time frame required by the staff l 23 really depends on what extent those previous studies are-3 F applicable to answer the court's questions.
1 45 98 44 p ' 1 If new studies are required, it will take longer. .hh 2 I think it is true that in six weeks to two months we will 3 be able to have completed an initial assessment of 'this issue d and decide whether an assessment or a statement is the i 'S appropriate way to go. 6 The statement takes a bit more work. It also i 7 requires a balancing of over.all cost and benefits of the ~ B project. 9 CO)1MISSIONER AHEARNE: Do you see this assessment 10 and the environmental impact statement process as being one r 4 that would have to cover more than just the psychological 11 12 stress or do you see it if you went into an environmental E_ 13 imp'act statement, it would have to.be a full balancing or st ~~ would it be focused on strictly that one issue? ~ 14 11R. DENTON: There are two contentions, the 15 f individual stress and the regional stress. So I think either t 16 S 37 assessment or the' statement would haye to cons 1 der both of k those issues. A statement does have to do a balan.cing. 2. is E I would hazard a guess that if the original 19 i t environmental impact statement was found adequate to cover l E 20 a 2 all.the other areas, we wo' ld have to put psychological u E 21 ~ G3 t 2 f actors in the balance and write a section reba, lancing i 22 I. in drawing a final conclusion again, but' not necessarily 2 23 deal with all the other issues which were dealt with in the .=rua = earlier, statement.
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.i - 46i 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Harold, is an environmental i 2 impact assessment going to require surveys of how people ,( 3 feel? i 4 MR. DENTON: I think they have already been done. 5 In other words, there have been so many studies done in that 6 area and the' stresses originate from multiple causes. There r 7 are the impacts from the accident. There are the impacts 8 from the clean up or pace of the clean up and then there are 9 the impacts from a restart. 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Which one are you going to go i after? 11 12 MR. DENTON: That is where we will have to seek g 13 expert advice on whether the.f actors associated with restart L= u can be somehow determined from the existing survey. 15 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: How far does one go? Do you 3 $. ~ 16 go all the way to Harrisburg? Do you go to all the way to i 37 Lewistown? I j,, is MR. DENTON: I don't think we know that yet and our scheme would be to retain individuals such as that Human 19 i .f. 20 Factors Group that we had used before who are very knowledgeat t I in this area who,were current on all the studies that'had beer. ! 21 j done and ask the,m.for advice about how to address this issue 22 ~ 2 53 and meet the licensee and see what information he has and oye 23 the next couple o'f weeks try to decide tho'se issues as to f 7, . ~, nE whether the surveys that had been done were adequate on which 25
47 I ~ 1 professionals in the field could draw conclusions or whether h 2 they had to be supplemented by additional surveys. 3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That-sounds a lot like a 4 scoping process. Do you intend to involve the public inte'res:l 'S groups of the local community in that at all? 7-6' MR. DENTON: Th at is one difference. In no mal 7 ~ practice between an assessment and a statement, in preparing 8 statements we do normally. have scoping meetings in the 9 area of the plant in order to determine.what their interests ^ lo
- are, I envision that we would begin the~ process in'a manner 11 such that the results could be used for either an assessment 12 or a statement so we don't start the process a'nd find that is we need to change from an assessnent or a statement.
So I. 14 en' vision the need for scoping meetings in the area. 13 COMMISSIONER AEEARNE: So at least you would see l ..j'. 16 that being done? e 8 37 MR. DENTON: Yes. k E 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Are any questions asked of l' individuals about their own' psychological stress or are they 39 asked opinions about their neighbors' psychological stress? 20 E i In other words, if you ask me if there was psychological'stres. 21 I would s ay, "I believe there was psychological stress," but 22 E 23 if y u ask,,"Was I. under psychological stress," you might get a ifferent answer. 24 ~ MR. DENTON: I don't' know the answer to that questic 25
.40 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I don't expect you to know the!
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[$i 2 answer to that question. ~ 4* i 3 MR. DENTON: Most of the studies that bave been donti 4 that I have looked at tend to look at'. are there clinical expressions of stress prehalent 5-in that population. There .. ~ - ' 6' has' been a lot of work done in that area. Let m'e ask if 7 Don Cleary could answer your question better t an I. There ~ t have been innumerable studies done and I am sure that they a 9' take dif fer'ent' styles. This is Don Cleary, the section' leader in our i 30 socioeconomic. branch. ~ 33 1 12 MR. CLEARY: One of the problems of bandling g3. n psycholo'gical stress is tryi'ng to differentiate the stress e:a. 34 that might be caused from TMI-1 restart and the other causes l 15 in the vicinity of TMI. We really have to be careful in how d, we proceed on this. I think there are sufficient st'udies to get a bandle on whether there is a likelihood that stress 37 7 might resul't from TMI-1 restart. e 33 j s ~ a g 3, Th.e problem is :that we.are not going to be able to really talk definitively about the magnitude of that stress 20 _.and defini.tively about what parts of the population would l r g. C experience it. 22 3 E Es a gross question I think the existing studies will allow us to draw some 'entative conclusions. In t erms of t 2F__ definitive conclusions we are still a long way from that. t
~ _. 49. ' In f act we are putting together a workshop of experts in U 1 W 2 psychological stress. Some of these people have e).perience Y r 3 in TMI. Others have experience in other types o.f l psychological stress and the question t hat we are asking them 4 is what'is the state-of-the-art. i -. 3 ... J... -;.. Is -there, likelihood that we will be able to say-- j 7 anything definitive upon furtbe~r study on TMI-1 restart?' This g workshop is going to take place in the first week of February and we are, hoping for a ' report a couple of weeks.later. , yg. At that point we will baye a judgment of a balanced group of national authorities and I would besitate at this I 3) p nt to speculate where we are going to end'up after our - 12 final environmental impact ststensnt. l 1 13 = CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: To make an environmental assessment, how much manpower and how much contract work would ~ 2 .16 you see needed or s'taff pow.er? 11R. DENTON: Since we don't have professional 3. 17 ~ j psychologists or psychiatrists on staff all of that would be y. 18 I done through. contracting. We do baye sociologists who can ( 19 l look at regional impacts and impacts on housing markets and i 20 5 j those ~ kinds of.th.ings. So we would see putting together a tea =l e - 21 ? of people inside and I don't know how big that would be yet I 22-s } ~ until the scoping s'tudies are completed, but we would 'bave to 23 oversee the contr-act. j C' 24 t 9 7 I see.the bulk of the work in terms of the impact on i 25 s
50! 4 .the well-being of individuals that we will have to rely 1
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largely on outside experts. 2 ~ .= CHAIRMAN PILLADINO: .Is the estimate in here? 3 4 MR. DENTON: It.is $120,000. i ~ 5 C015ISSIONER ROBERTS:. What does that represent? i . ], ~ MR. DENTON:- Tiere i~s one group that we have retainer 6 ~ 7 in the past called Human Design Group who are associated with ~ unive'rsities whose full time profession is'worhting with the g people and understanding stresses and we would get their 9 ~~ interpretation of all the studies that had been done and their ' go opinion regarding whattrestart would likely do to an individual 33 as" directed by the court. We would pay for expert advice. 12 33 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: "Somehow this has branched off in a direction other than what I had hoped for in 3, endorsing the raising of these contentions in the first place. 33 ~ 7 Th at is,' at on.e time.we had a specific group in the reopening g. 16 proceeding that was prepared to lay certain specified conten-p d [ tions before the Board and they would have presented particular ' 18 a problems to which we might or might not have found acceptable g 19 solutions. t' 20 I suppose the same kind of thing may come out of this 3 ">ut I have the sense that i,t is going to be a terribly diffuse = 22-f arocess in which you will get an awful lot of, generality and no 23 much by way of concrete acti6n that can be taken at the end. ?. Let me direct a more specific question. Is there a y 25 ~
51. r-I way to fac. tor the kinds of contentions that people who havo ~ .3 2 after all taken us to court in the first place over this 6 3 would have. raised into this study overview process. Perhaps j 4 this is what John was af ter when he asked about scoping as' ~ -- 9 5 well;
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f = = - - - ' ~ l '6' COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes, it was. 7 MR. DENTON: When this issue was broached at the venting stage and it wasn't quite in the.same legal context, 8 ~ 9 there were amelioration aspects that we were ab'le to ~ lo accomplish such.as getting neighborhoods and individual neighborhoods to monitor doses, bringing in EPA, sorts of 11 12 things to ameliorate the stress level. i ~ ~ 13 COMMISSIONER BRADF6RD: Th at is obviously the ~ 34 area of interest. 15 MR. DENTON: There were additional th'ings that the 1 16 Commission might cause to happen. Here it. is going back 6 tryi5g to.asse,ss in advance of a restart what the effects. 3 37 l 38 are g61ng to be. If you just. follow the literal wording, g, what"is the impact on individual's well-being likely to be 3, 0 f as a result of the restart. 20 E E CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I presume when you ask the 21 i stress questions, do you ask questions of stress on the part 22 g E f those people that think they need more power and some of 23 them are threate:iing to move out of the area unless they can C 24 SE get 1 wer cost. power. They are certainly under a different 25 9
- t 1
kind of stress, but is that going to be considered or is t L fa~ - 2 that considere d 'part of stress or not? 3 HR. DENT N: We are now outside the field that.. j I 4 am confident in. 5 COMM'SSIONER AHEARNE: Just wait, Harold. You -. = : _ - :: :...
- -j ~
e will become an' expert. 1 ~ -h. N 7 CEAIRMAN pALLADINO: A new area for" development. T don't know what, stress really means or what Ibis stress s =: means and.I know there is some distress on the part of 9 .3 ^ manufacturing companies in the area who feel that their .a 10 power needs are not being met and they are paying too much 33 and they are talking about going other places. 2
- =1 13 HR. DENTON:
The ~typ7s and level of stresses are f 34 ch.an gin g. Weekly meetings of neighborhoods are.still being conducted and more and more people are beginning to raise 33 issues about the r.estart,and are concerned about that~ and les : 16 and less about health effects of'the accident, for example, 37 6v So the nature of stress cha'nges in the area with time and ne-4y. 18 aa issues come up. { 19 l g I would imagine that surveys of stress or whether 20
- r or not there are any clini. cal symptoms resulting would yary, t
~ 8 depending on what activity is going on. 22 s 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Earold, if we ' voted today to 6 23 L say, yes, we think we ough't to get started on an environment 24 _e= assessment, you would be prepared to lay out a program? 2S
+ 1 MR. DENTON: Yes, and I think it would take us a (hIf 2 couple of.veeks interaction with such outside groups and 3 it would help to have the order to know exactly what it is ~ 4 that has to be'. focused on to lay out a program. -S CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: The court opinion.- 6 MR.' ' I5NTON : Yes; the court opinion, so that we ".: ~~~ know that we are focusing bn the aspects they are interested I 7 s in. From our discussions with OGC, it is not clear whether~ 9 they focused on cont'ention one or contention two or both. .v-10 We would meet with people that we have retained '11 earlier. We would meet with the licensee and move as f ast l 12 as we were able and the key issue is could we largely rely [ L -M. 13 on previous studies and driw iEferences from them to answer
== 14 this question or would some sort of use survey's or studies 15 in the. neighborhood be required. 5. The kind of time schedule we see is in the paper, 16 e 8 that by June or so, we should have a f airly good haIndle l 37 d l on wh at such stresses are and decide, at that time whether f 73 s a [ an' assessment is appropria'te or a statement and if a stateme; t l is appropriate then it has to be circulated for comments. 20 2 i The real difference between an assessment and a 21
- j statement is that the assessment does not attempt to rebalani 22 E
the entire project. i 23 ( CHAIRMAN pALLADINO: Commissioner Roberts. 2a %2' COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: If we were to decide today l l
5s 1 .,,~ I to direct the~ staff to commence this, does that bavo any ~ R== 2 bearing or influence on our litigation strategy? ws .~ 3 MR. BICKWIT: I would say'not. c. l Al'1 right. 4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: 5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: The decision not to do a- '~ ...:.=. .... ~ :.- m v-w - ? 6 statement would rest on discovering through the assessment ~ .r ) 7 route that stress was not sufficiently significant to b'b, worth ' ~ s pursuing further? h' hat is the standard that you use in 9 deciding w.bethe~r to go from an assessment to.a statement? ~ 10 MR. DENTON: No significant impact'. I would ~ propose ' ~ 13 not to try to decide whether an assessment or a statement is t 12 correct unti.1 we have this information in. -d 13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD."" The reason I asked is -=rea i th at if you can start out in a way that preserves the ability 34 to go either way fo'r a while, I think it is well to do so. 33
- j Evey the dissecting Judge seemed to say that if, 33 s
I in fact, this area were opened up there was no real likelihooc 37 that a finding of no significant impact could be made. I 18 a e g He seemed to be saying.once you start down this roac' 3, ) you are going to have to do a statement. It may well be that 20 s b the. fastest route from your point of view is going to be one 21 t g that contemplates a statement from the outset and is prepared g 8 to do a statement from the outset. 23 ~ HR. DENTON:. That'is the route that we would begin
- =
- f on, the. essential dif ference being a scoping. meeting required i
I e p. 1 by the guidelin'es for statements that woul'd not be ~ -G 2 necessari1y required under a pure assessment. .-I would reserve our options until we have' the i ~ 3 (' _ =.
- =*
initial results before us.. ~4 3 COLNISSIONER BRADFORD: Preserve the options b[ _--y.. baving the scoping meeting? '~~ 6 m - .r .z - 7 MR. DENTON: Yes, have the' scoping men 51ng, begin the review so that we could write either a draft statement s 9 'or..an assesscent depending on the magnitude of the. impact .1. Io' study. y CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I am' going to propose for 12 Commission vots that we direct the staff to start on an environmental assessment on psychological stress and not 13 close their options but have them report somewh'ere along 9 ~ 33 the line to the Corrhission, and the staff would be authorized R e 16 to enter into such contr, acts as necessary. ~- g 4 I Af ter you have done your scope and after you receive ! g l g the opinions and you know where you want to go, I think a 33, 3 '* a g report back to the' Commission would be appropriate. 3 19
- g MR. DENTON:
I would propose to handle this somewhat 20 2r differently than we did during the venting issue where we e were concerned with. the speed of the clean-up. Here I.tbink = 22 1- ~ 2 it ought to be the licensee's obli.gati.on in the first instance to. provide the bulk of the analysis of what the impacts =-O of restart would be and include him in the process so that be 25
5.6 + 1 . develops whatever information is available and our role is 'in 3 2 the traditional role of reviewing and auditing and - .,3 independently verifying it rather than our attempting to .A take this task on as a NRC only assignment as we did some '~' 5 previous ones. . - - 3 :- - -. 6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: This would be part of your - ~' ~ 7 scoping process? ~ ' MR. DENTON: Yes. 8 9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: And when you came' back"vith 10 your overall plan, you would define that portion of it? 11 MR. DENTON: That is correct. 12 ' Cold 11SSIONER BRADFORD: That is the S120,000 a 13 contemplates the licensee doihg Ge bulk of the spade work? F 34 MR. DENTOM: That is correct with our doing as much 15 as we deem necessary to eith.er analyze existing information R h.. 16 or Conduct sunveys and the'n we have people who are able to I oversee that and critique it as it is.done. 37 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I would propose that we i 33 e [ 39 authorize or direct the staff to proceed on the preparation t 20 of an environmental impact assessment, that as part of that 8 b activity they do.their scoping work and see what is required 21 2j fr m the court opinions and then advise the Commission of'its 22 ~ 2 plans when they are developed. 23 COMMISSIONER BRADF'RD: I t ake i t that you are O 24 L basically intending to accept Harold's. proposal that they go 25 I i
I e ~ 1 forward n a' way that keeps the statement possibility alive, (j{ 2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Yes. At the moment I don 't l 3 know how they can define which way to go. 4 'COMMISSIO.NER BRADFORD: Right. ~ 5 ,. CEAIRHAN PALLADINO: I thought th ~Eour. required [.*: ..= : - .w 6 to make an assessment and only if we find that the assessme:i ~.7 came out to show an impact did we have to,go ko the. impact ~ 8 state' ment. Your point is to keep it flexible enough.. In keeping it flexible enough I don't want to get to the point 9 ,10 where..we can' t write the assessment because we 'are trying to be so flexible as to accommodate. 11 r i 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I understand that. What I' am trying to avoid is a situation in which. we start is out very1 narrow as though 'the assessment were going to be all that 14 is con ~templated and then discover in a couple of months that is
- ~
the whole effort Idus to. be broadened and we have to go back 16 t* 37 and do work that could have been done. u f 33 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: It is.always possible. 2 - a a { 39 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I think we are saying the A i c 20 same thing. 2 I 21 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN' O: I want to focus more narrowly. I 22 for the time being. 2 5 ~ s 23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But you are not saying that 24 they shouldn't do the scoping meeting even though that !55 u-would not technically fit within the normal approach to an 3 e
O .s. 1 assessment. That is all I am trying to get at. ~CRAIRMAN PALLADIliO: I would expect them to do the 2 3 scoping. I would ei:pect them to examine the opinion and out ~ ~ ~ of that process develop a plan that. they would come back to 4 i the Commission and f amiliarize us with that plan. 5-6 COL".dISSIONER ROBERTS: Can the $120,000 contract ~ - 7 be written in such a way that in the unlikely event ~ psychological stress is no longer at issue, we can stop the s .9 project? ~ .t o MR. DENTON: I am certain that we can write it'so 1 that the answer to'tbat question is yes. n 12 MR. BICK'JIT : peter would like to speak to your ~ question. 13 MR. CRANE: As to the relation of doing this work 34 33 to the litigation s'trategy, conceivably if the case comes before the S13preme Qourt.sordetime dowii the line and the g I question is how are we damaged by this decision, if we had g f i e already done everything that the court h.ad demanded of us., l 1-18 o ~ we might ha've foreclosed our opportunity to object to it. g ), i n CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: On Three Mile Island, i 20 8. I MR. CRANE: But that depends on how narrowly the 21 T 1 court limits it. 22 s E CO)DjISSIONER AHEARNE: I would agree with what you 23 said, but I have two caveats. First, I would like the staff 55 to come back within a fixed period of time. 25
59 l< e 1 Cg4IRMANPALLADINO: I mentally had in' mind two l! fS ' 2 weeks. 3 col 1MISSIONER AHEARNE: I don't know whether they-4 will be ready in two weeks. ~ 5 MR. DENTON: I would' recommend a month not knowing l 6 when we are getting the court opinion. 7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: How about two weeks after a the opinion comes in? 9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: All right. You are suggesting 10 that we have a time frame and that it be within two, three it or four weeks after the opinion comes down. CO!SIISSIONER AHEARNE: Fine. I would guess that'*if 12 a 13 the opinion keeps being delayed,"I would still like to hear i 13 fr'm them in a month. o 34 At the mo' ment I don't think.I am willing to endorse 33 ej 16 the idea that, we are going to rely on Met Ed, put primary l reliance on Met E_. We have been in.th.at position in the 37 d past. Th.is is going to be an area in.which we are going into g 3 e ~ p unchartered territory. No on.e has ever done this kind of a 3, i f study before. 20 o i For us to then say, "All right, licensee, you do it 21 5' and we will take your material," I think it is yery likely ' to i e 22 3 E put us in the same situation we found ourselves in in a lot of g th6 clean-up areas, that Met Ed was floundering. Here is a g _= .= company that in many ways is on the ropes anyway and we are r e
60- ...3 1 .asking them to march out and develop this material and 'this-2 y approach has never ~been done before and it is' for our action. 3 The court, has charged us with it and as I think 'e have seen w ~ in many oth'er places, we can get into.a big philosophical. ~ ~3 ' discussion'as to whether tbI licensee 'ought to do something ~ u. 6 - s -- or the regulatory agency ought to do something, but this 7 TMI situation is snique. It'is different. And' we will' 8 rapidly, I am afraid, put ou:tselves in a position that we " .7 have been in so of ten ::ow in. the last' two years... We will T 10 find that we will b5 beld adbountable. for progress nof being ~ 11 ~ made. 12 So I am. very uneasy about saying we will let Met Ed N 13 do most of it. We baye been there before and I don't want ~ 14 to be there again. 15 MR. DENTON: That is why I wanted to raise that v 16 issue as to whetbsr we aedept the~ burden of doing it ourselves. - g. t" 17 With regard to restart, then we are doing it. 6 18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Harold, I agree. Th ere' is 19 some impacts, the economic impacts and stuff, that you can go b [ 20 to Met Ed, but I think the bulk of the work, as you know I 21 strongly don't beli, eve that we ough.t' to be doing it, but if E 22 it is going to be done, I think the NRC ought to take the ' lead E ~ 23 on it. Otherwise, we will be back where we were on so many 24 other issues on this follow-up on the accident. 55 ~ CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: In your scoping you can find 25 e
__~ 61. h 1 out what GpU has done and can do and perhaps would be well to ll n 2 2 do, but then in your planning weight given to that would be -I 3 proportional to how good you think it might be. I am inclined 0 c 4 to agree with John on that because they haven't always done 5 as well as I would like to have seen them do. 6 o a I. 3 Wou1d you be willing to proceed this way with the i! 7 understanding that you would give us a plan somewhere within i; 3 two or three weeks after you get the opinion, but if no J ~ opinion.comes within.a month?g you will give us a progress 9 report?- to Is this agreeable to all the Commissioners? 33 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
- Yes, E
12 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: 4.'e s. p. 13 a COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes. g CHAIRMAN P LLADINO: Let's go on to the last item. i 15 + ? I think we ought to spend A few minutes on this and that is 16 going through legislative relief. You have proposed in here 17 o, l three options. 1 18 l )IR. BICKWIT: We proposed a various number of ways. 19 My own feeling is that I think it would be useful to get some .g 20 2 g kind of temperature taking of the Commission at this poin't. 21 We are not pushing for an ultimate solution to this right now' 22-3 E and I guess I would recommend against focusing o.n the specific 23 language here. 2' }2 We would like to get*some particul'ar leaning of the 25
f ~s\\, Transcript of Proceedin9s ( %.*,/, NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION DISCUSSION OF TMI-1 RESTART PROCEEDING (CLOSED MEETING - EXEMPTION 10)~ ~ 1 ~ WEDNESDAY, MARCH 10, 1982 ,~ ~ i Pages1 - 61 Prepared by: Lynn Nations Office of the Secretary i I
/ , 1 7 bidding on the various schedules. What now does seem to be 2 the earliest possible resolution of the steam generator 3 problem? 4 MR. REMICK: The latest I have seen is six months i 5 to a year. COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: From? 6 7 MR. REMICK: That was from about two or three 7 weeks ago. 8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is this six months at all 9 realistic?' i 10 I understood that they either had to replace 11 thousands of tubes -- 12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Eight thousand, I think.~ COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Or replace generat6rs all 33 y togetner. MR. REMICK: I don't think the six months is 15 reasonable, no, and the information we have is that they i 16 will probably plug and perhaps sleeve. '7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You can't sleeve thousands 18 of tubes. 19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: They did it in San Onofre. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Thousands?
- l 20 MR. REMICK
Yes, I think 7,000 or 8,000. COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: A very large number. But 22 they clearly cannot plug. !j 23 ~ CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I am trying to understand 24 what you mean when you say, ",You can't." 25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Well, you can.
18 .*( - 3 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: But it is not a very wise 2 thing to do. 3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let me ask you this. How long did it take to sleeve thousands of tubes in San Onofre? 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What is that? 6 MR REMICK: The question is how long did it take i to sleeve that number of tubes at San Onofre and I don't 8 know. Does anybody else? COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: B. D., do you know how long 10 it took to sleeve San Onofre. ~ 11 MR. LIAW: At San Onofre we ran into problems with 12 the brazing joint and normally I would expect something like six months or so. 33 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But that is after they make i 14 the decision to go ahead and do it? 15 MR. LIAW: What do you mean by that? 16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: They haven't yet. decided 'I what to do? 18 MR. LIAW:. That's true. 19 MR. ROTHSCHILD: I think in the GPU press release of a couple of weeks ago, I think they said that if they 20 1 ended up sleeving it would be about a year was their 21 es tima te. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:. What was that? 23 MR. ROTHSCHILD: I think their estimate was a year ? 24 and I think their starting point was the end of February. 25 So I think they are really talking about February of 1983 was
I 9 ~ 1 their rough estimate if that was the alternative"they used. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: First of all, these estimates tend to be optimistic and one always runs into 3 something new. I would be surprised if it was less than a year that they are estimating. MR. REMICK: I personally would not be surprised 6 either but I think they did indicate a range of six months to a year. How realistic it was, I don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Isn't that somewhat based upon their.early analysis, that is, they haven' t completed 9 10 all of their analysis over what the problem is much less g ing through the economics and looked at the options. 11 MR. REMICK: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Have they discovered yet 13 whether there are problems with other parts of the vessel 14 internal? I gather that one of the questions raised by all '8 this was whether other inc~nel instruments had also been o 16 damaged. 17 MR. REMICK: I don't think we have any information 18 on that yet. CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Also, have they cleaned up the system enough so that.if they do sleeve, they~are not 20 going to have the problem reoccur? 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Do they know what the 22 problem was? 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: That is the point. 24 MR. REMICK: We have not dug into the ste'am generator problem other than'to try to keep informed from 25
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17 We ha've discussed this and I think one potential 1 N explanathonisthedifferenceinthesignificanceofNB 2 examinatio\\n bein/ and company quizes, the major point g 3 that in the \\ / 4 case of these company quizes there is/ j / 5 eviden=e on the record to indirste that it was Sot made 6 clear to operator in which circumstances quizes were to I 7 be an examination fr th e standpoint that you vork j 8 alone and that cheating is an unacceptable behavior 9 versus the NRC examinat n which was'very clear that / 10 that is' supposed to be an dividaal effort. / 11 So the only case y u ould make there or that 12 I could make there is that th'e. are mitigating / l 13 circumstances in the case of the ompany qui versus the 7 ~ 14 ERC examinations. j / 15 00hEISSIONER AHEAENE. All icht, back to the 16 sta stus question., 17 ER. RAhBBUN: The SECI-250 which the staff sent down to <ihe Commission last June had in icated that 1 18 / be ready for criticality in December of /would \\ 19 the plant f 20 1982. The staff now believes that the plant vould be ready /or :ritirslity in \\ f f February of '83 instead of 21 Dec/ ember of '82. l 22 / COEEISSIONER AHEARNE: Has the staff approved 23 24 the explosive mechanism of fixing the tubes? 25 MR. EATHBUN I don't know. f ALDERSON REPoATING COMPANY,INO.
13' 1 KRi EILHOAN: I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is that underway? 3 BR. RATHBUN: Jim, do you know? Y 4 MR. MILHOAN: I don't know the status. 5 COEMISSIONER AHEARNE: You see, I at assuming 6 it isn't underviy because I am assuming that there vould 7 have been a press release that it had begun, but I 8 haven't even seen anything that the staff had approved 9 the approach. 10 MR. RATHBUNa I can say this. The staff, as I 11 understand it, is preparing a follow up to its 12 SECY-82-250 which should be coming soon, and I would 13 imagine that vill have updating information on the 14
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15 COMMISSIONER AREARNE: There is nothing to 16 prevent though you guys from finding out what the status 17 is, is there? 18 ER. RATHBUN: That is where ve got the 19 information this morning, yes, sir. 20 00MEISSIONER AHEARNE: For example, you can 21 find out have they approved the explosive approach and 22 what is the status of that. 23 ER. RATHBUN (Nodding affirmatively.) 24 0055ISSIONER AHEARNE: Is that the staff or 25 licensee estimate for February? j i i 1 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
2 gg. 1 ER. RATHBUN: That Osme from the NRC Project 2 Eanager. 3 C MEISSIONER AHEARNE. Vic? / ,f 8 4 COM. SSIONER CILINSKY: N o #' 5 COMMIS IONER AHEARNE: Tom? E COMMISSI EER ROBERTS: o. COMEISSIOND3 AHE ARNE:/ Jim? 7 \\ / 8 CO EBISSION ER SS EL.STIN E: I have one / 9 question. You say that y u are in agreement with the / 10 Board's conclusion that there is no safety consequence / 11 from the cheating episode. ne of the Pennsylvania / 12 arguments, as I understand it rom your summary, is that people /who in the past have cheated on 13 if you have 14 quizes or the exams, that those p ople may not be / 15 reliable suppliers of information, articularly in an / 16 emergency. f they.are villing to cheat, then they may 17 be villing'to withhold information or ot to provide \\ 18 accurate nf ormation. Do you give any weight at all to / \\ 19 that* argument and, if so, how do you s,quare that with / \\1 20 your agreement with the Board conclusion? \\ 21 ER. MONTGOEERY: I think we gave some veight \\ 22 to the argument, but not enough to come down to'what I \\ 23 hink,is the only conclusion you would reach after you \\ C 24 accept that argument and that is that those operators es would have to be removed forever. ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
20 s 1 time to time but not in this context. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Somehow we don't seem to be ~ focusing on the most important problem. 3 ~ MR. REMICK: That might be correct but we are 4 reviewing the record, s 'g N CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: You are right but I don' i N s think it i our intention not to focus on it. / I 7 MR. REMICK: As I was indicating, we. recommend / that the Commis ion await the Board's partia.1' initial ~ decision 8 / 9 on cheating befor making the Board's dec.i'si'on effective. g / On Februa\\ 8th of this year,the licensee filed r' 10 / with the Appeal Board n exception to' the Board's decision 33 on vessel level instrume tation. ,It was one of three-exceptions that was filed. ,/ 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN : 'Was this the licensee? 14 MR. REMICK: Yes. COMMISSIONER BRADFORD You used the phrase and / Len did, too, the significance of which I should remember 18 I don't, "Lif ting / e immediate effectiveness of the th 17 but is suspension. order." Are you talking a out the order that the Commission put ou three years ago? 39 / MR. EMICK: August 1979, yes. C0F)MISSIONER BRADFORD: So when yo talk about lifting its/immediate effectiveness you actual y mean what, 21 allowing / start? 22 e 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Lifting the suspens on. 24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Normally when we t'alk about lif ting immediate effectiveness, we are talking about 25
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t ,- ~ ' 55 ,S s ~ 1 at is all. ^ 2~ '" CH AIRM AN P A11ADIFO: ~1et me'go to some other ] ~~ ' - r.- gj-3 plant one that makes an inspection and it has got 4 ' leaks. Now how do ve tell them that they are not 5 supposed to start up until they plub their tubes and do 6 vhatever req irements need to be done? j 7 ER. E LSCH: Well, in some cases it would be ,/ 8 covered by tech s ec requirements because they just' / 9 vouldn't be able to estart until they had plugged the 10 tubes because of tube 'p ugging criteria in the tech 11 specs. In other cases I euspect it is endled 12 informally as here. They j st sim y have an \\ 13 understanding with ' the licensee t at he won 't restart "3C 14 without staff approval. ,/ 15 We are just raising the question here of 16 whe ther beca use of the-sensitivity of t is case we night 17 vant something m or e ',ho rm al, but it is reall 'a policy 18 decision. 19 C AIREAN PALLADINO: But if they did start up 20 vith a steam generator that we didn' t f eel was / 21 appropriate could we issue a shutdown order? 22 s' n s sure. ~ 23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Marty, where does OGC j 24 stand at'the moment on whether this is going to require [) w ~ 25 an amendment? l ALOERSON REPoRTtNG COVP ANY. fNO,
' ^... '.. 56 1 MR. M ALSCH: The staff has what I think is a 2 very firm position that it needs an operating license 3 amendment. 4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That it does need an 5 amendment? 6 MR. MALSCH: That it does need an operating 7 license anendment, but that is based upon their reading 8 of a tech spec provision that says something to the 9 effect that you nust plug tubes if the tube vall to thickness goes below a certain level.. 11 With this repair program they are proposing to. 12 deal with tubes in a way other than by plugging. So 13 technically they wouldn't be in compliance with the 14 technical specifica tion. 15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Is the tube vall after 16 the modification is made, does the steam tube vall then ~ 17 have the same definition as before? 18 MB. MALSCH There is a controversy between 19 the licensee and the staff as to how to read the tech i 20 spec requirement. We have asked f or a copy of the tech 21 specs and haven't gotten them yet. So I can't be sure. 22 We can read the tech specs ourselves and reach a 23 conclusion as to whether they are right or wrong. ~ 24 The staff says that they are right and that 25 the licensee's interpretation of the tech spec 1 ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
~ 57' requirement v'as not consistent with their intent when 1 2 they wrote the tech specs, but I haven't seen the actual b. 3 language myself. 4 CO EEISSION ER ASSELSTINE: Does the staff have 5 a position on whether an amendment, if it wa s re quired, 6 vould involve significant harards considerations? 7 ER. EALSCH: They have suggested tha t it B vouldn't, but have not reached any firm conclusion yet. 9 That is the important question. 10 COMEISSIONER ASSELSTINE: I would assume you 11 would have to have another prior hearing. 12 ER. HALSCH: That is right. 13 CHAIRMNN PALLADINO: Go back to try to think
- ~::.
14 through what I think I understand in the basics, this is 15 not one of the concerns that we had vben we shut then 16 down? 17 KR. MALSCH: No. 18 CHAIREAN PALLADINO: So then say vell suppose 19 ve ha'd just found out about this and they were not shut down by an immediate effective order such as ve are 20 21 trying to lift, what vould we have done with them? 22 MR. EALSCH: Well we vould be really in the 23 same situation. I mean let's suppose a plant were nov 24 o pe ra tin g 25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: So this is uot \\ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
~ SB 1 necessarily part of the lifting of the inmediately 2 effectiveness? j 3 MR. MALSCH: Oh, it is definitely not. It is 4 one of the other items that needs to be resolved outside 5 the scope of this pro eeding. 6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But it clearly has to 7 be.done prior to the plant being able to restart, and 8 since ve do have the court having spoken to us, to let 9 them knov 30 days before ve are going to authorire or 10 before the plant can restart. There is som e importance 11 to at least having ourselves knov clearly what the steps-12 are and it would be useful I think if we were able to 13 say that clearly whether it is an order or not. We 14 ought to be able to describe what steps ve see. 15 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What do you mean? r 16 COMMISSIONEE AREARNE: For example, in this we 17 ought to be saying here are the actions that must be 18 taken before TMI-1 can start, and one of those is the 19 steam generators have to be fixed, and then what is the 20 role of the Commission at that stage? If it is the 21 staff we are satisfied with, we ought to say the NRC 22 staff has reached an informal agreement with the 23 licensee tha t the plant vill not start before the NRC 24 staff has agreed or the Director of, NRB has agreed that 25 the actions are complete and there is no problem with i ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INO,
59 1 the protection of the public health and safety, or 2 something like that. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ,f. 3' CHAIREAN PALLADINO: That vould not bother me. ~ 4 ZERBE4 Wha t is said in here now un' der the / 5 item of decis n starting on page 15, covering it on 6 page 17 when we y that you are going to, lift the decision has not, h'ovever, 7 order, you say "Thi / 8 authorized THI-1 to're tart. This is page 17. "The i 9 steam generator tube pro'less must be resolved prior te / 10 restart and-the staf f must make all necessary 11 certifications. So that is hat is said about it. 12 COMMISSIONER AHEARN.: Well it then goes on \\ 13 "The Commission vill fully cons der these matters before any restart." I think the implication from I 14 authorizing \\ 15 that is the staff 1,s going to certi,fy to the Commission 16 satisfactory resolution of the steam generators and the 17 Commission vill then m ak e a decision on that'.'- \\ De ve ce\\ any decisions 18 CHAIREAN PALLADINO: e 19 on the stdam generator startup? ,e 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: No. l 21 COMMISSIONER AREARNE: No, but I on't think ~ f / 22 you can really use precedent in this caser / 23 ;/ (Laughter.) 3.- 24 CHAIREAN PALLADINO: Well, we vill create - i ' 25 precedent. ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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t o 2 -~ ~ 1 PROCEEDINGS 3 ~ ~ 2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: We will continue with~the l closed portion of the meeting and Mr. Herzel Plaine will 3 ~ A co6tinue with his presentation. 01.~ 5 MR. PLAINE: In this closed session, members of 6 the Commission, we will have OI give a discussion of the L: ' progress in the matters that it is dealing with. When that 7 Os: 8 is over with, we will have to excuse OI so that we can go '~ into a further closed sessi5n and --- 9 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You mean inner inner. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MR. PLAINE: --- so that we can continue, Mr. 13 Hayes, with the TMI restart discussion. So if you won't _x-la mind going ahead with whatever you have or any of your 7. 15 colleagues have. 16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I gather you are going to t ~ ~ ' cover not only the status of your ongoing-investigation *, 17 $3f; 18 but the existence of p'ending nature of any other l Ped-l '19 investigations. ~ 55S /2'O MR. HAYES: Yes. Presently we have three rR ;- [-[. 21 investigative matters that are a part of the TMI et al, if you will. 22 23 The.first, of course, is the Parks Gischel [ ( 24 matter which we are presently pursuing. The OI staff 25 members have-been at TMI since Tuesday of this week. i ~ IP. TAYLDE ASSO CI A T ES 16251 Stre et, N.W. - Suite 2004 W eshington, D.C. 20006 i r-nn os 3ogn
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s -/' 1 *~ s. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 4 DISCUSSION-OF STEPS TO DECISION -IN TMI-l RESTART PROCEEDING 5 .;.:n CLOSED PORTION - ' EXEMPTION 10 ~~ ~ Nuclear Regulatory Commission ~7 Room 1130 - [' ~ 8 1717 H Stre.et, N. W. ~ Washington, D. C. 9 Friday, April 15, 1983 I 10 11 The Commission convened in closed session at 12 2:45 p.m. 13 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: 14 3:' NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission 15 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner JOHN ABEARNE, Commissioner 16 THOMAS ROBERTS, Commissioner JAMES ASSELSTINE, Commissioner . c.,.. 17 i$,i-18 STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT COMMISSION TABLE: .Lwe ~$'[, ' 19 S. CHILK B. PLAINE
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20 ^ B. HAYES 4 1' R. LEVI - i' 21 J. MONTGOMERY M. MALSCE 22 A. KENNEKE 23 AUDIENCE SPI.A.KERS: 24 J. CUMMINGS 25 ? TAYL0E A55 0 CI A T ES 16 2 5 I S tr e e t, W. W. - S uit e 2 00 4 W ashington, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-3950 1
"j;", ' s 2 i 1 ^ PROCEEDINGS k '2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: We will continue with'the closed portion of the meeting and Mr. Herzel Plaine will 3 ~ 4 cohtinue with his presentation. {p. 5 MR. PLAINE: In this closed session, members of 6 the Commission, we will have OI give a discussion of the 7 progress in the matters that it is dealing with. When that - ~ ' - h -: B is over with, we will have to excuse OI so that we can go ~~ L. ~ 1 9 into a further closed session and --- 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You mean inner inner. II (Laughter.) ~ 12 MR. PLAINE: --- so that we can continue, Mr. 1 13 Hayes, with the TMI restart discussion. So if you won't -2 14 mind going ahead with whatever you have or any of your 9. 15 colleagues have. 16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I gather you are going to 17 Cover not only the status of your ongoing-investigation, ~ $3f.: . 18 but the existence of pending nature of any other .M4- {.k 19 investigations. 'b5.; ND MR. HAYES: Yes. Presently we have three C6?: ~ ((5.. 21 investigative matters that are a part of the TMI et al, if 22 you will. 23 .The first, of course, is the Parks Gischel 24 matter which we are presently pursuing. The OI staff 25 members have been at TMI since Tuesday of this week. EP. TAYLOE ASS O CI A T ES 16251 Street, N.W.. Suite 2004 W ashington, D.C. 20006 >-n n so,_so s e
3 '. c ' 1 I presented to the Commission a work plan.asking 't 2 for,45 days to complete that work plan. We are in hopes of 3 resolving the first three items on that work plan dealing A with the technical area procedures'and what-have-you as 5 quickly as possible. Right now with only 72 hours into the D investigation I cannot really give you a firm commitment at G. 8 this point.
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~ 9 CBAIRMAN PALLADINO: Both of these, you say Parks ~ 30 Gischel, both of them relate to Unit 2 specifical,1y? 11 MR. HAYES: Yes, we are looking at both of those 12 affidavits as one investigation. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Who is Gischel? 14 COMMISSIONER ABEARNE: They relate to Unit 2, but 9, F 15 the questions of the management flow over to Unit 1. 16 MR. EAYES: That is correct. 17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Possi bly.. _ -- {J,- COMMISSIONER ABEARNE: The allegations, because Je 'b the allegations certainly. Now whether they actually do is, 19 20' something tha't Ben will have to find out. ,t, COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: That is right. 21 22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I don't reca,ll Unit 1, 23 except from the general top management level. 2I MR. EAYES: That is correct, the top. 25 The other investigative matter, which is quickly l,1 TAY10E ASS O CI A T ES 16251 Street, N.W.. Suite 2004 W ashington, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-395D
.<::. b 4 1 drawing to a conclusion, is our investigation concerning-an 2 allegation made by Mr. Boring. That happened last year We are right now reviewing the investigative 3 sometime. 4 product. ' Bill Ward is reviewing that and'we hope to 1. 5 conclude that investigation within the next two or three 6 weeks. '7 Our observation is at this time that the B allegations are not founded, and in my. view probably will ~' 9 not have any impact on TMI. 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Now the Boring, is that the II welder qualification? 12 MR. HAYES: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is this the one that has 14 something to do with Senator Batch? y s' 15 MR. HAYES: Yes. Senator Hatch wrote a letter to 16 the Chairman and asked that an investigation be instituted. [" ~ " ~ 17 The third investigation we completed..__It dealt -- Is with the psychological cheating tests. Quinn, if you 5 19 remember. We issued an investigative report I believe it .T, - 4 20 was,.last month sometime. t 21 Mr. Cummings has given me comments on that 22 product and I have directed my staaff.to review his ~ 23 comments to prepare documentation to me to determine 24 whether in our view his comment _s are appropriate and 25 correct and it may require us to reopen, if we feel that L TAYLDE ASSO CI A T ES 1625 I Street, N.W. - Suite 2004 W ashin gton, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
w a "- e u.* 1 Mr. Cummings' comments are valid, reopen and do additional 2 inquiries in the psychological testing area. 3 I hope to have within the next five to seven 1 work days that staff work.done. At that time, I will sit 4 5 down --- i 6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: When you say you will have,,_._.. 7 the staff work done, you mean the reopened investigation or 8 whether or not to reopen it? 9 MR. HAYES: The decision or at least my ) 10 recommendation as to what we should do from the standpoint 11 of OI. At that point I intend to meet with Jim Cummings and 12 discuss it. We have gotten together and we have hopes of 13 resolving it among.ourselves. 34 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let's see, with all.due 15 respect to him, why is he involved? l' MR. HAYES: Be has oversight responsibility or 17 did have oversight responsibility. 18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: When we set up OI one of 19 the things that we did at the same time was to task OIA to 20 .7-review their operation on a semi-annual basis. 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: We gave them two charges. 22 One, we said would they until the end of fiscal '82 look at ~' 23 each investigation. Since there were none before the end of 21 fiscal '82, we felt that they ought to wait until they get 25 a few under their belt and they have been giving comments TAYLDE A SS O CI A T ES 1625 I Street, N.W. - Suite 2004 W ashington, D.C. 20006 (202) 293-3950
6 .c ~ 1 on-that. z_ s ~ 2 The second thing we said was I believe it das every six months.they were to make an audit of their 3 4 -.opdration," and I don't know whether we had a time frame on 5 that or not. 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: This is basically their.. 7 auditing role? ~ 8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes, right. ~ ~ 9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: They have also been looking 30 at these specific cases in the spirit of our request that 11 they look at the first six months of the investigations. 12 MR. HAYES: So every product that we have 13 generated up until. a few weeks ago has gone to Mr. {. la Cummings' shop for his review. 7 15 That, gentlemen, concludes the three 36 investigative matters that we are currently looking at.- 27 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Now on-the-Parks'- ~ ~ 18 investigation, as I. recall, there were three parts to it at .1; 39 least, and I would be inclined to call it four parts. 20 involved technical issues. One inv Ived
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21 harassment and in idation, as I recall. e of them 22 involved possible collu 'on by the NRC and then there was 23 one that was inferred, but hink should be identified, 25-the mystery man issue. 25 I wasn't sure what you sai about each one of I TAYLOE ASSO CI A T ES 3 62 5 1 Stre et, N. W. - Suit e 2004 W ashington, D.C. 20006 rnnns ses.mosn
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( v. ~ (4),a D d.[lf'.fhblilN0f((153 bill}llilTT ^ - 400 N. Em:,:i Suen Box 8263. PhM@hia Pa.19101 Director Freedcm of Information Office of Administration Request U.S. Nuclear Regula tory Conmission FREEDOM OF INFORMATION Washington, D.C. 20555 ACT REQlJEST-FO L A -Ed-39J0 June 8,1983 g c/ [o -/J -f 3
Dear Sirs:
This reques t i,s made under the federal Freedom of Information A c t, $ U.S.C. 552. Please send me copies of the transcripts of all Nuclear Regulatory Commission meetings held between. Aug. 27, 1981 and May 10, 1983 that were closed to the media and the public and at which. commission members discussed the restart of Unit 1 of the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant near Middictown, Pa. From a declaration of Nunzio J. Palladino, NRC chairman, da ted Ma7 18,1983 I understand that the commission met 13 times in closed session to discuss this issue. A s y ou kn ow, the FOI Act provides that if portions of a: document are e.xempt from release, the remainder must be segregated and disclosed. I reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any materials. I would be happy to come to Washington to review the transcripts of' these meetings. As I am making this request in the capacity of a journalis t and this inf ormation is of timely value, I will appreciate your c,ommunicating with me by telephone, ra ther than mail, if you have any questions regarding this request. My telephone number is 215 D54-6882. Thank you for your assistance, and I will look forward to receiving your reply within 10 business days, as required by law. Very truly yours, S w Jim Detjen 9 ..}}