ML20244D330
| ML20244D330 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Seabrook  |
| Issue date: | 04/14/1989 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#289-8536 ASLBP, OL, NUDOCS 8904210290 | |
| Download: ML20244D330 (84) | |
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OR G \A-UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ATOMICSAFETYANDLICENSINGBbARD In the Matter of: )
I
) Docket Nos.
PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF ) 50-443-OL NEW HAMPSHIRE, et al., ) 50-444-OL
) OFF-SITE EMERGENCY (SEABROOK STATION, UNITS 1 AND 2) ) PLANNING i
EVIDENTIARY HEARING l
Pages: 19326 through 19407 Place: Boston, Massachusetts l
Date: April 14, 1989 8904210290 890414 PDR ADOCK 05000443 g
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O HERITAGE REPORTING CORPORATION osseistReporem 60p.
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UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ATOMIC' SAFETY-AND LICENSING BOARD 4
1 In the Matter of: )
) Docket Nos.
PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF ) 50-443-OL NEW HAMPSHIRE, et al., ) 50-444-OL ]
) OFF-SITE EMERGENCY i (SEABROOK STATION, UNITS 1 AND 2) ) PLANNING i EVIDENTIARY HEARING- j 1
Friday, April 14, 1989 Auditorium Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.
Federal Building 10 Causeway Street Boston, Massachusetts The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 8:30 a.m.
BEFORE: JUDGE IVAN W. SMITH, CHAIRMAN
.. Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 JUDGE KENNETH A. McCOLLOM, Member Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 JUDGE RICHARD F. COLE, MEMBER Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Pegulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 1 '
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19327 APPEARANCES:
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.For the Acolicant:
' THOMAS G. DIGNAN, JR., ESQ.
GEORGE H. LEWALD, ESQ.
KATHRYN A. SELLECK,.ESQ.
JAY BRADFORD SMITH,=ESQ.
-JEFFREY P. TROUT,.ESQ; GEOFFREY C. COOK,'ESQ.-
Ropes & Gray.
One-International Place Boston, Massachusetts 02110-2624
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For the NRC Staff:
.SHERWIN E. TURK, ESQ.
' ELAINE I. CHAN, ESQ.
EDWIN J.-REIS, ESQ.
Office of General Counsel U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington,.D.C. 20555 For the Federal Emergency Management Acency:
H.-JOSEPH FLYNN, ESQ.
-LINDA HUBER McPHETERS, ESQ.
Federal Emergency Management Agency 500 C Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20472
-e For the Commonwealth of Massachusetts:
JAMES M. SHANNON, ATTY. GEN.
JOHN C. TRAFICONTE, ASST. ATTY. GEN.
ALLAN R. FIERCE, ASST. ATTY. GEN.
PAMELA TALBOT, ASST. ATTY. GEN.
MATTHEW BROCK, ESQ.
LESLIE.B. GREER, ESQ.
Commonwealth of Massachusetts One Ashburton Place, 19th Floor Boston, Massachusetts 02108 O Heritagu Reporting Corporation (202) 's28-4888
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(Continued)
APPEARANCES:
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For the' State of New Hampshire:
J GEOFFREY M. HUNTINGTON, ASST. ATTY. CEN.
State of New Hampshire.
25 Capitol Street Concord, New Hampshire 03301 For the Seacoast Anti-Pollution League:
ROBERT A. BACKUS, ESQ.
Backus, Meyer & Solomon
.. 116 Lowell Street P.O. Box 516 Manchester, New Hampshire 03105 JANE DOUGHTY, Director Seacoast Anti-Pollution League '
5 Market Street Portsmouth, New Hampshire 03801 1
For the Town of Amesbury: l 1
O BARBARA J. SAINT ANDRE, ESQ.
! Kopelman and Paige, P.C. i 77 Franklin Street !
Boston, Massachusetts !
WILLIAM LORD Town Hall
. Amesbury, Massachusetts 10913 For the City of Haverhill and Town of Merrimac: ,
ASHOD N. AMIRIAN, ESQ.
P. O. Box 38 Bradford, Massachusetts 01835 For the City of Newburyoort:
BARBARA J. SAINT ANDRE, ESQ.
JANE O'MALLEY, ESQ.
Kopelman and Paige, P.C. (
l 77 Franklin Street ,
02110 i
Boston, Massachusetts
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' APPEARANCES: (Continued) )
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C For the Town of Newburv:
i R. SCOTT HILL-WHILTON, ESQ.
, Lagoulis, Clark, Hill-Whilton & McGuire 79 State Street Newburyport, Massachusetts 01950 For the Town of Salisbury:
CHARLES P. GRAHAM, ESQ.
Murphy and Graham ,
, 33' Low Street-Newburyport, Massachusetts 01950 For the Town of West Newburv:
JUDITH H. MIZNER, ESQ.
Second Floor 79 State Street -
Newburyport, Massachusetts 01950 l For the Atomic Safety and Licensina Board:
.q-V i ROBERT R. PIERCE, ESQUIRE l
' Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555
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- - 19330 1 H P_ E. X WITNESSES: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS EXAM PANEL:
Maureen Mangan John Paolillo by Mr. Lewald 19352 by Ms. Chan 19366 by Judge Cole 19385 by Mr. Brock 19386-1 E3HIBITS: IDENT. REC. REJ. DESCRIPTION:
Applicants':
41 19338 19338 Letters of Agreement 53 19342. 19342 Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony No. 11 The Effects of a Strike by Members of NHY ORO Mass AG:
.- 76 19395 19396 Interview Form, 2-2-89
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' E E Q L' E E R I .H G H
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'2 JUDGE SMITH: ' Good morning.
" 3 a there any preliminary business?
4 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, one point.
S' At page 19272 of the transcript from yesterday,-
6 .which was where the-panel was introduced, and there was a 7 request that their testimony be admitted and bound into the
-i ' 8 record. And,I believe that, as I read the' record, the Board
- 9' did.not formally approve and allow that evidence to be 10 admitted. And we would like to so move at this time, with l
11 the. understanding of the prior rulings of the Board !
12 yesterday.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Well, do you have a copy of that
( L14- testimony which has been marked to show the rulings?
15 MR. BROCK: I believe that we do, Your Honor.
j 16 JUDGE SMITH: -And have you checked it with Mr. ]
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. '17 Lewald or Mr. Trout?
18 That's the thing to do.
19 MR. LEWALD: We don't have the copy yet.
':20 MS. CHAN: Your Honor, perhaps we could have a I 0
.21- moment so the staff could also review the testimony. !
1 22 JUDGE SMITH: Sure.
23 MR. BROCK: Fine, Your Honor.
24 JUDGE SMITH: Just provide them copies of it and 4
- ?
25 let them look and see if they agree that the conformed copy l l
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1 does conform with our rulings.
. 2 MR.. BROCK: .Thank you.
3 MS. TALBOT: Your Honor, excuse me, if I may.
4 I spoke to Ms. Andre last night, and she asked me 5 to ask you if you decided to grant permission to allow her 6 to~ file her rebuttal: testimony for the Town of Amesbury.
7 She has it all prepared and she can bring-in.the witness g, 8 -soon, next week or some time. And if you would like to 9 speak with.her in person, she will come in also. But she 10 wanted to know if I would ask you that.
11 JUDGE SMITH: I'm going to have to befreoriented 12- to the issue.
-13 MS. TALBOT: Oh. Remember when the gentleman from
( 14 civil defense was the-witness, and there was some rather i
15 heated discourse between Mr. Lord and the witness? '
16 JUDGE SMITH: Oh, yes.
17 MS. TALBOT: And some confusion arose as to the 18 position of the town-in terms of planning for other types of 19 emergencies. And Ms. Andre at that time requested 20 permission to file rebuttal testimony to clear that matter 21 up. And she has in fact prepared that and has a witness, 1
22 and is simply awaiting the Judges' decision as to --
23 JUDGE SMITH: Well, she should tender the 24 testimony.
25 MS. TALBOT: Okay, i
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- 1 JUDGE SMITH: Tender it. I_mean, she doesn't have ]
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-. ~2 to come'in. Well,-yes, she probably should come in'and l l
3 offer the testimony before she' brings her witnesses. -She. ;
~4- can bring her witnesses ~if she wishes, but she should 5 advance-leave to present-the testimony.
d 6 MS..TALBOT: Okay, thank you, Your Honor, j
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7 JUDGE SMITH: 'In any-way. She can either in
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., 8 person or maybe you can-present it for.her, or whatever it 9 works out. But let us just see the testimony inLadvance. 'l 10 EMS.:TALBOT: And decide after that if there is a 1
11 need for the witness to come in.
-12 JUDGE SMITH: Yes.
13 MS- TALBOT:
. Okay, thank you..
( 14 ' JUDGE SMITH: Sure.
15' MR. DIGNAN: Your Honor, I'have this morning bad 16 . news and good. news. Why don't I get the bad news out of the
,,- 17 way first.
18 If you agree with what I think is the good news 19 request that.I'm going to make, it may.mean we won't fill-20 the morning, and let me' explain what I mean.
21 I spent yesterday back'at the. office going over, 22 as I said~I would, the question of how much and what
.23 testimony we have to put in,.actually put in of the 24' proffered testimony in light of the fact that Mr. Donovan 25 has now beels completed on cross-examination. And in that ,
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f-19334 O) 1 respect, I have made a definite decision with respect to
. 2 certain pieces.
3 The other thing that I -- I have, obviously, not 4 had a chance to read the transcript of yesterday, although I 5 have had the events of the day described to me, and I do l 6 want to read it.
7 It is my considered judgment at this time that the
- 8 Applicants may well confine their case with respect to this 9 matter to simply offering Exhibit 41 into evidence, the 10 contracts and the latest agreements. And I am clear that we i
11 will not be offering, at least an additional portion, of C
12 Rebuttal No. 8, which is the next piece to come up, as you 13 know. I am not clear on all of it yet without reviewing
) 14 this, and I was going to beg the Board's indulgence to 15 simply offer 41, get that in evidence, and then let me have 16 the weekend to make a final decision on 8.
i
, 17 I can promise the Board that part of it is coming 18 out. Frankly, the part after the part that's already j 1
19 stricken, and it may be, and while I can't give assurance 20 until I've read this, but I'm virtually certain it's all 21 coming out. And I ask the Board's indulgence in that 22 respect.
23 I can't make the decision, in good conscious, 24 without reviewing this transcript which I'm going to start 25 doing as soon as the cross-examination continues here. But R
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-. 1 ILdon't think I'll be able to give you a final decision on i '2 it t'oday.- But-if you will accept my word, I assure you some 3 ~ of its coming out.- The question is whether all of it gets 4 dropped.
5- JUDGE SMITH: I understand.
6 MR. DIGNAN: And if that procedure is agreeable to i
7- the Board, I would like to do that. And what I will do is l L 8 undertake, as soon as I've made the decision, if I can have 9 a home number of Mass.AG,'I will call them, and that would 10- mean Mr. Sikich would be the first thing in order on Tuesday
-11 morning if we withdraw it all, and I will call over the 12 weekend to let you know my final decision.
13 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, one immediate problem with
-( ). 14 that is Mr. Sikich is not available on Tuesday.-
l 15 MR. DIGNAN: I thought he was. I'm not being a -l 16' wise guy. I thought he was.
, 17 MS. TALBOT: We have other special problems with 18 this.
19 MR. BROCK: He's not. We would have to make a 20 substitution.
21 MR. DIGNAN: Okay.
22 MR. BROCK: But I don't think it would be Sikich.
23 But I want to be clear then, is it the request of the 24 Applicants that their panel, Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony 25 No. 8 and the panel supporting that would not be presented Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 h-_l-___m_ _ _ _ - - _ _ _ . _ . _ _ - - _ _ _
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1 1 today at all to allow Mr. Dignan the time to review the ]
C 2 testimony and decide whether he is going --
3 MR. DIGNAN: Yes, that's my request. They would 4 not be presented at all today, in any event. And I could )
i 5 represent in good faith a substantial portion, the back half 6 after.Catapano, I'm clear on. We're not going to be 7 offering that.
,- 8 What I want to do is myself review this transcript 9 before I make the final decision on whether to offer any of 10 it, and also, frankly, hear the end of this cross-11 examination, and then make the final decision whether to 12 offer any'of it. And I'm being perfectly candid with the ;
1 13 -Board. I'm 90 percent of the way to not offering it, but I k) 14 hope the Board understands, I can't make that decision in 15 good conscious without this review.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Exactly. I understand.
, 17 MR. DIGNAN: And what we would do is put 41 in 18 today and take care of that.
19 MR. BROCK: I need a little further clarification. i 20 What portion of Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony No.
i 21 8 are you sure, Mr. Dignan, you will not be offering?
22 MR. DIGNAN: The part that follows -- it's the l 23 part that follows the Catapano which has already been 24 stricken out, Mr. Brock. It begins on page 25,Section III, I 25 Transportation Assistance During an Emergency.
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-(:1 1 MR. BROCK: All right. So nothing after the l i,
2- conclusion of Roman Numeral I, with its five parts A through 3 E. At this point those are the only portions you are1even.
4 considering?
5 MR. DIGNAN: That's correct. That's correct.
6 Ms. Selleck will now distribute, we said we had 7 some corrections to 41. The 41s that are given to the
', 8 reporter will have them in. These are the additional 9 documents that have been added since the first distribution.
10 ,
I guess that procedure is my request if it's 11 agreeable to the Board. Now, from what I understand, Ms.
12 Chan does not have that much on cross-examination; Mr.
13 Lewald doesn't either, and we may have a short day today for
( -
14 which_I apologize, Your Honor. But as I have indicated, I 15 can't make the decision without that opportunity to review.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Is this an addition to 417
.. 17 MR. DIGNAN: Yes, it is simply an addition. In 18 other words, 41 stands as it is. The copies that will be 19 given to the reporter are the official copies. They will 20 contain everything. We, frankly, just didn't see any sense 21 in distributing a whole new set, because it's a pretty thick 22 document.
23 MS SELLECK: One small point. The last seven 24- pages of the original exhibit, we've reinserted with the 25 proper numbers. They were numbered improperly when we
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J F Y- ! l' ' profiled it. ]
b 1 MR. DIGNAN: Globally'. numbered' improperly. ')
I?T 2 3 Do you want me'to get 41lout of.the way now, Your
'4 Honor, on[the record? I i
5 ' JUDGE SMITH:' . Fine.
f
>' 6 MR. DIGNAN: IWe offer Applicants' Exhibit 41. The 3
7 reporter'will have the.three copies, _Your Honor.
/, - 8 MS. CHAN:'.No objection from the Staff.
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- 9. MR.. BROCK:- No objection, Your Honor. 'f 10 JUDGE SMITH: 'All right,. Applicants' Exhibit 41, 11- you.had better'give it a better description.
12: MR. . DIGNAN: It's in'two volumes, and it-is'--
13- JUDGE SMITH: Two volumes plus an addition.
14 MR. DIGNAN: !Plus an addition. And it represents 15- the latest agreement, contracts and LOAs that the Applicants
- 16 have with. respect to transportation providers.
, 17 JUDGE SMITH:- All right, it's received.
18 MR. DIGNAN: Thank you.
19 (The document referred to was 20 marked for identification as 21 Applicants' Exhibit No. 41 and j 22 received in evidence.)
23 MR. DIGNAN: Now, Your Honor --
24 JUDGE SMITH: And it is Exhibit 41, that number 25 has been reserved.
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1 MR. DIGNAN: Applicants' Exhibit 41.
C 2 JUDGE SMITH: Applicants' Exhibit 41.
3 MR. DIGNAN: Your Honor, in addition, I am 4 prepared to advise the Board and parties that Applicants 5 will not in fact offer Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony No. J 6 11, Protective Action Recommendation Generation. I don't 7 think this surprises anybody. Mr. Traficonte had expected i 8 that would be the case in light of the Board's ruling with 9 respect to the Goble testimony.
10 In addition, having considered again --
11 JUDGE SMITH: Excuse me. They've proffered it. ;
12 Do you wish to proffer it as rebuttal in the event that
- 13. their proffer -- do you wish to proffer it as surrebuttal in
( )- 14 the event that their proffer as rebuttal is --
15 MR. DIGNAN: You mean to complete the record as 16 to -- yes, if the Board would be willing to do that, that c 17 might be a good idea to have it in. We've got to invent 18 another file. It's a rejected exhibit but -- the sandbag 19 file. Yes, I think that might be a good idea to have it 20 accompany the record.
21 JUDGE SMITH: How that truly is a new category.
22 MR. BROCK: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
23 Mr. Dignan, could you repeat your request?
24 MR. DIGNAN: Well, the Judge said did we want to l-25 put it in the record in what amounts to as the rejected i
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3/ Il exhibit file, so it's clear what it was.
- *- 2 JUDGE-SMITH:L'You see, the situation 1comesLup when: )
I k 3 the Attorney General moved and'was denied the testimony.of- 1 I
'4 . Thompson, Beyea:and the other witness..
f 5 MR.' BROCK: That's right.
6 MS. DOUGHTY: Right. This is'an instance in which 7 he is choosing not'to offer the testimony which is
- , . 8 different?.
9 JUDGE SMITH: No, in that we did not accept ~the.
10 testimony offered by the Attorney General,. they no longer 11 wish to offer the testimony in surrebuttal to that 12 testimony.
13 MS. DOUGHTY: I see.
() 14 JUDGE SMITH: By going back, the Attorney, General 15 offered it. In any event, it was rejected, and then we 16 placed it in the rejected exhibit file as a proffer. So it
.- 17 remains as a proffer by.the' Attorney General as what they 18 would have proved had they been allowed to absent our ruling 19 to preserve your appellate rights.
20 So now Mr. Dignan undertakes to follow that 21 proffered piece of testimony with a proffered piece of 22 surrebuttal. In the event that the Attorney General 23 prevails on the proffer, they are covered.
24 I think it's very appropriate. So why don't you 25 offer it for that purpose and we'll reject it and place it
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d 2 MR. DIGNAN: Yes. Well, I was thinking of the L 3 device to do.it. It's very' simple.
4 . JUDGE SMITH: Just simply place it in the rejected 5 exhibit file.
6~ MR. DIGNAN: I was going;to say we can give it an
(,. 7 exhibit number. I can offer it with a statement that I do
, 8 'not' intend to give it a witness, and you can reject it for 9- that reason, and then it will ride with the file.
10 JUDGE SMITH: . That's a good way.
11- MR. DIGNAN: All right, what is the next exhibit 12- number in order?
13 MR. BROCK: Your Honor. j
() 14 MR. DIGNAN: Your Honor, on -- excuse me, Mr.
15 Brock.
iti MR. BROCK: My concern is, Your Honor, on this
. 17. procedurally. I, frankly, don't understand how a piece of l 18 testimony can be offered when, in fact, as Applicant is 19 saying, they are really not offering it. It's simply 20 something to follow whatever might occur on appeal.
21 It seems to me the issue was joined when Mass AG-22 presented their testimony. The Board has rejected that 23 testimony. If that be one of the issues on appeal, however 24 that may be disposed of, at that point the issue would be 25 joined again.
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19342 O' 1 JUDGE SMITH: There's no problem. They will offer 1 2 right now, they will offer that testimony into evidence.
3- MR. DIGNAN: Your Honor, see now we're --
4 JUDGE SMITH: Offer it into evidence, because'he i
5- objects to your proffer, so offer it.
- Okay.
6 MR. DIGNAN: This would be Applicants' 7 Exhibit 54 -- we will supply'the reporter with two copies'--
j 8 for identification would be Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony i
9 No. 11.
10 (The document. referred to was 11 marked for. identification as 12 Applicants' Exhibit No. 54.)
13 MP..DIGNAN: I offer it at this time and advise 14 the parties I have no intention of putting witnesses on.
15 JUDGE SMITH: Are there any objection?
16 MS. DOUGHTY: Yes. I object. I object just 17 procedurally. It's rebuttal testimony and there's 18 nothing --
19 JUDGE SMITH: Sustained. I 20 MR. DIGNAN: Sustained, you won.
21 (The document referred to, 22 having been previously marked l
23 for identification as
! 24 Applicants' Exhibit No. 54 i
25 was rejected.)
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b j '19343 M 1. MR. DIGNAN: In addition, Your Honor'--
.. 2 JUDGE SMITH: 'Now what ck) you want to do?
3' MR. DIGNAN: Go in.the rejected exhibit file.
E4. . JUDGE SMITH: Your proffer it.
5 MR. .DIGNAN: I proffered.it.
6 JUDGE SMITH: All right.
7 MS. DM GHTY: -I guess I didn't_. object-quickly-U.,- ! 8 enough. WhatJI objected to is the. offering of rebuttal 9 -testimony tofsomething that there is nothing in the record 10 to be rebutted.
11 JUDGE SMITH: It's sustained.
i 12 MR. DIGNAN: It's sustained.
i-13' You're going to win three more, just hang in (f- 14 there. You're going to have.a great batting average today.
15 (Laughter) 16 MS. DOUGHTY: I won, but I lost.
17 JUDGE SMITH: You're on a roll now. Hang in
'18 : there.
19 MR. DIGNAN: I would like to mark as Applicants' 20 Exhibit 55 for identification, Applicants' rebuttal 21 testimony No. 14, the Effects of a Strike by Members of NHY 22 Offsite Response Organization.
23 I have no intention in light of what has taken i
24 ' place so far with respect to the. cross-examination of Mr. !
i 25 Donovan to offer that. ~l Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
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,y 19344 v LO 1 So I.will offer Applicants Exhibit 55 for
., 2 identification as an exhibit with the' representation 1that.no 3' . witnesses will.be put forth to defend it. I assume somebody-4' will' object. ,
[ 5' (The document referred ~
I' ' 6 to was marked.for
- 7. identification.as
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', 8 Applicants' ' Exhibit 55.)
9 MS. TALBOT: Would you describe that again, 10 please,'Mr. Dignan?
11 MR. DIGNAN: This is the strike testimony, 12 Applicants' Rebuttal No. 14.
13 Strike as in strike labor organizations.
-(k 14 JUDGE SMITH: What circumstances are you 15 responding to now?.
16 MR. DIGNAN: I'm sorry,.Your Honor?
.. 17 JUDGE SMITH: What circumstances are you 18 responding to?
19 MR. DIGNAN: Well, this is prefiled. What I'm 20 -doing is advising the Board of the prefiled testimony that p 21 I'm not going to offer.
L 22 JUDGE SMITH: Right.
23- MR. DIGNAN: And the strike testimony responded to 24 the JI Contention No. 9. But absolutely nothing has come-25' forward on that. That is to say, they said they were going o Beritage Reporting Corporation l- (202) 628-4888 l l-
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'l' to get-theiricase.out'of Donovan. Donovan'has now exited
. 2 .the stand on the plan and nobody even asked him about' 3 strikes.. So-they put'no case in on strikes. So I don't 4 .need the testimony.-
5 JUDGE COLE: You don't-need witnesses for the.
6 testimony.
7 JUDGE SMITH:' But they haven't proffered any.
4 8 testimony;on strikes ~either.
9 MR. DIGNAN: No. That's right.
10 That's my point.
11 JUDGE SMITH: This is different.
12 MR. DIGNAN: This is in a different category in 13 the sense that there's no need -- I get.your point. I'll
. () 14 -just advise you, I am not going to be offering Applicants' 15 Exhibit No. 14.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Okay.'
17 MR. DIGNAN: And there is no case'in on it. I 18 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, for the record --
19 JUDGE SMITH: What was that identified as?
20 MR. DIGNAN: Applicants' Rebuttal -- take away 21 that exhibit number, I won't even give it an exhibit number.
22 JUDGE SMITH: There is no exhibit number 55, 23 Applicants' Exhibit 55.
24 MR. DIGNAN: The Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony
'25 No. 14, the Effects of a Strike by Members of the NHY Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 c
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. . 2L JUDGE SMITH:- Is withdrawn.
3 MR. DIGNAN:. Is withdrawn.
4~ Because there's just nothing in on it.
5 (The ' document referred L .
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7 identification as
- , 8 Applicants' Exhibit 55, 9 and was withdrawn.)
.10 MR. BROCK: I would like to comment on.that, M. r 11- Dignan.
12 Your Honor, the contention which we filed was 13 admitted land in our view Applicants had the burden of going (f 14 forward with evidence to rebut that and we are now being 15 told that they have not and will not offer evidence on that.
i 16 So in our view they have not met their burden with
.. 17' respect to that contention.
18 MR. DIGNAN: No , no. I was misled. The Attorney 19 General took the position they were going to make their case 20 on cross-examination of FEMA witnesses. That was the j 21 position they took.
.22 MR. BROCK: Whether or not we went forward on 23 cross-examination, Your Honor, does not change Applicants 24 ultimate burden with respect to the contentions admitted.
25 JUDGE SMITH: Except that we reassign burdens in O Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 l l
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- i. 2 ~ MRi DIGNAN:.- The burden of going forward;with 3' evidence was on the Attorney General on all these 4 contentions.
H 5 MR. BROCK: We understand the Board's ruling 'as to ;
6 .that. We, for the' record,. disagree with that.
7 JUDGE SMITH: So there'is nothing really before o
, 8 you to~ object to or anything actually. -There is nothing:
~9 'before the Board. There is nothing before the Board except.
10' the information from Mr. Dignan. ,
1
-11 MR. BROCK: There is an admitted contention, Your 12 Honor.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Right. But are you making-a motion' 14 or what are you making?
15 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, it's our view that the 16 contention was admitted and states a valid ground to show e.. 17 that the plan is not' adequate. The Applicants have not gone
- 18. forward with evidence to overcome that. . And they have the 19 ultimate burden in the case.
'20 So in our view, that's a deficiency proof for the 21 Applicants.
22 MR. DIGNAN: Good. Make the argument. I'11 worry 1
23 about that when you make it.
24 Well, let's not play sandbag games here.
25 Your Honor, it's this simple. I have a rebuttable Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
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1 presumption in the whole thing _because of the overall. FEMA I
- 2 finding. And that carries my day. That's the reason. The {
3 burden of coming forward is figured. )
4- I will rely on that rebuttable presumption that 5 the plan is adequate. The overall finding to handle i
- And.that's why 6 anything on which evidence does not come in. l 1
7 I don't need any evidence, because nobody got anything out
, 8 of Donovan even on the subject of strikes, never mind why.
9 The way the record stands now is, FEMA has found 10 the plan adequate. To put it in the absolute precise thing, 11 I don't think there is anything on strikes in there and the 12 rebuttal presumption is that FEMA has found the plan 11 3 adequate unless somebody comes_ forward with some evidence
() 14 that they should have looked at strikes and strikes could 15 have been a problem, that rebuttable presumption stays in 16 effect.
, 17 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, I would just-point out the 'i l
FEMA report,'Mr. Dignan is correct, does not address the l 18 19 issue. It's an admitted contention to which FEMA's report 20 and rebuttable presumption in our view does not run.
21 And Applicants had the burden, again, we believe 22 of going forward with evidence and has not done so.
23 MR. DIGNAN: Mr. Brock hasn't attended every day ,
24 or he would understand or if he had read my trial brief that 25 the theory in which we are trying this case which the Board i
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b" ' l-- has' acknowledged is the theory.that the rebuttable
< 2 presumption is two. things -- three. things.
3 It's a rebuttable presumption on every specific' L4' finding.
'5 There's a. rebuttable presumption that the plan is: i
'T 6' adequate overall, which. covers'everything.
7 And there's'also a rebuttable presumption that.if'
?[ 8 FEMA didn't look at something it didn't need-looking,at.
9 JUDGE. SMITH: You just have to make your a,
- 10 . arguments. ..There is'nothing before us.
11 MR. DIGNAN:- Now, with. respect to Applicants' 12 Rebuttal No. 13, this is Radioactive Waste Handling and 13- Disposal, Your Honor. We do not feel the need to offer that-14 testimony. And it will not be offea.ed in light'of the 15 Donovan cross-examination.
.b : 16 MR. BROCK: Mr. Dignan, could you identify that?
, 17 MR. DIGNAN: Applicants' Rebuttal' Testimony No.
18 13,' Radioactive Waste Handling and Disposal.
19 Mith' respect to Applicants' Rebuttal Testimony No.
20 15, which is a small piece entitled "The Reliability and 21 Response of Members of the NHY Offsite Response 22 Organization," that was prefiled. In light of the cross-23- examination of Mr. Donovan we will not offer that either.
24 I bring this to the Board's attention and the
In other 25 parties for the obvious reason of scheduling.
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( 1 words, so people Will realize these pieces don't have to be 2 accounted for.
3 The only caveat I put on any of that is, if 4 somebody convinces you they should not be able to put some 5 more direct testimony in, obviously, I mey have to resurrect 6 one or more of these pieces. But as the record stands now I 7 see no need to offer these pieces.
, 8 I guess that' completes our preliminary matters, 9 Your Honor. Thank you for the indulgence.
10 Mr. Brock, you have indicated -- could I ask you 11 cne question? You have indicated that if I pulled number 12 eight it will not be Sikich. In any event, your office will' >
13 be putting on Monday.
() 14 MR. BROCK: Tuesday.
15 MR. DIGNAN: Tuesday, excuse me.
16 MR. BROCK: That's right.
. 17 MR. DIGNAN: I guess what I would like to know is, 18 who will it be so we can be sure we're ready for whoever it 19 is. If you'know. In the event that you don't put on your 20 panel. i 21 MR. BROCK: Yes.
22 (Counsel confers.)
23 MR. BROCK: Mr. Dignan, Leslie Greer I believe is 24 going to be the attorney who will be handling the next I
25' couple of witnesses that would involve special populations. I
. (M l
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'- li I would need to talk to her and maybe get'back'to your 7 2 office toda)
-3 15L. DIGNAN: Could-you do that?
4 We will try to advise you by the end of the day of 5 our final decision. As I say, I'm virtually certain-we're 6 not going to offer it. I just want to make a check and hear.
-, 7 what goes on'this morning.
- s. 8- MS. CHAN: Mr. Brock, when'you saylspecial 9 populations will we still follow the order of Katherine 10 .Barnicle first or that's no longer valid?
11' MR. BROCK: I think the cluster of special 12 populations was to be chronological, but I don't know who 13- that' specific witness was. At least I didn't understand it-0 14, ea e r-15' But as I say,-Ms. Greer is the one-who is handling _
16 that. I need to speak with her.
.- 17- MS. CHAN: ' Fine. All right.
18' JUDGE SMITH: Anything further'before we resume?
19 MR. DIGNAN: I have nothing, Your Honor.
20 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Lewald.
21- Whereupon, i
22 MAUREEN MANGAN 23 JOHN PAOLILLO 24 having been previously duly sworn, resumed the witness stand 25- herein, and was examined and testified as follows:
+.
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1 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued) 2 BY MR. LEWALD:
1 s 3 Q I would ask the panel to turn to page'27 of the 4- tertimony.
5 Jh. Mangan, on the last or the beginning of.the I 6 last paragraph on that page you indicate that a year ago in 7 March of.1988 you contacted the Buckingham Bus Company in
.K 8 Groton, Massachusetts and spoke with an office secretary 9 Linda Leibig.
10 At that time your testimony'says that "Buckingham 11 had signed a letter of agreement agreeing to make available
'12 up.to 14 buses and two vans to assist in the emergency 13 response plan."
() 14 And that Ms. Leibig confirmed this agreement and 15 said that a contract had been signed.
- 16. Do you see that?
.- 17 A (Mangan) Yes, I do.
18 Q Now, did you ask to see that contract?
19 A (Mangan) I don't remember.
20 Q You don't remember?
21 A (Mangan) No.
22 Q Do you have that contract in your file?
23 A (Mangan) No, I do not.
24 Q If a contract had been signed would you not have
~25 been interested in seeing it?
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\ 1 A (Mangan) Yes.
a 2 I may have asked her, but I can't remember.
3 Q Do your notes help you at all as to whether or not' e
4 you asked her?-
5 A .(Mangan) I.would have to look at them. !
6 (Witness reviewing notes.)
7 -THE WITNESS: (Mangan) Yes, I did.
l
', 18 BY.MR. LEWALD:
9 Q You did ask her?
10 A (Mangan) Yes. !
11 Q And you sav now you don't recall whether you saw 12 it or not?
13 A (Mangan) Looking at mv notes I know now that I
( 14 did not see the contract.
15 Q Could I ask you to turn to page 140 of Applicants' 16 Exhibit No. 41.
., 17 A (Mangan) Is that the second volume?
1B Q That's Volume 1, page 140.
19 That page purports to be the first page of an 20 agreement between Rockingham Regional M -+ U m sorry.
- 21 (Long pause.)
22 BY MR. LEWALD:
23 0 If I could ask you to turn to page 101 of l 24 Applicants' Exhibit 41.
25 On page 101 this purports to be the first page, t
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- 0~ 1 does it not, of a contract between Buckingham Bus-Company
.. ' 2 and New Hampshire Yankee?
3 A (Mangan) Yes, it is.
s 4 Q I beg your pardon?-
5 -A' (Mangan) Yes, it is.
6 Q. And. schedule A to that contract, page 108 purports j l
7 to identify the number of buses and vans that are to be f, 8 provided under that contract?
9 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, I would be happy to impose 10 the same objection as yesterday. At least as a-foundation 11 matter I would ask Mr. Lewald.to inquire of the witness 12- whether she has ever seen this document or has any knowledge 13 of this document.
~
14 MR. LEWALD: I'm about to get to that. I was just 15 asking --
16 MR. BROCK:' Well, I think that's an appropriate Fc 17 preliminary, if you're going to ask what that document in 18 fact says. .
19 MR. LEWALD: The document is in evidence. I'm not 20 asking her to put something in evidence that isn't in l 21 evidence.
22 BY MR. LEWALD:
23 Q Looking at that contract between Buckingham Bus 24' Company and New Hampshire Yankee as set forth in page 101 of 25.
Applicants' Exhibit 41, can I ask you whether that refreshes
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_ . ./v c 1 your memory.as to whether or.not you have seen this contract 1 .
2 as you refer to or referred to-in your conversation with --
, 3' A: (Mangan) No, I have not see this' contract.
4 Q -- Ms. Leibig?
5 A (Mangan) No, I have not seen this contract ~.
6 Q Knowing that the Buckingham Bus Company had 7- entered into a contract subsequent to a letter of agreement
'8 -- with entering into a letter of agreement with New' 9 Hampshire 1 Yankee put you on notice that some of the other 10 bus. companies may have done the same thing?
lL1 A (Mangan) Yes.
lL2 Q Did that occasion some thought by you to go back-13 to the other bus companies whom you had. discussions with,
() 14 with. respect to an LOA to inquire whether or not they.had in lL5 turn entered into subsequent contracts with New Hampshire-16 Yankee?
., 17 A (Mangan) No. The purpose for me conducting these 18 interviews it was to find out what the company believed they 19 had agreed to do, not what the contract had said.
20 Q You didn't care what they had agreed to. What you 21 wanted to do was find out what they thought they had agreed' 22 to?
23 A (Mangan) Yes, I did.
24 Q Did you understand my question?
4 25 A (Mangan) I wanted to find out if what they had Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
1 MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19356' 1 _ agreed to do was the same thing that.was provided in the c . _2 contract. But I wouldn't be the one that would_actually ;
3 look at the contract and decide if what I found out on the
)i l
4 interview was what was said in the contract.
5 1
6 l
9 1
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9 i 10 :
11 12 l- 13 A 14 U.
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(_/- -1 Q Let me see if I understand.
l' 2 You were not interested in the contract language?
1 3 A (Mangan) I was interested in what the people that 4 were running these companies believed that their obligation
-5 was under their contract or letter of agreement.
6 Q . Well, if'a contract followed a letter of 7 agreement, were you concerned any longer with.what their
., 8 understanding was with respect to the letter of agreement?
9' MR. BROCK: Your Honor, 'I':m going to object at 10 this point. Mr. Lewald is using letter of agreement and 11 contract in a very precise manner as two separate documents.
12 The witness has said she did not have documents when she 13 discussed, when she had these interviews; that she went r^
(_) 14 there for the purpose of finding out what these. companies 15 -believed their obligations were to New Hampshire Yankee 16 period, without pointing to any specific document. And the
, 17 contents of those interviews are reflected in the testimony.
18 And I think that the distinction he's trying to 19 make,.you know, it's a fine, legal point, and was not the 20 purpose of the interviews.
21 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Lewald?
22 MR. LEMALD: Well, I think the question is proper 23 under the circumstances, Your Honor. There is a distinction l
24 in this testimony here in Buckingham Bus Service Company 25 between an LOA, which she initially started to examine the
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\..) ' 1 respondent with, and he informed her that', yes, they had 2 signed an-LOA, but they had entered into a subsequent 3 contract, and then it was signed.
4 MR. BROCK: Mr. Lewald is reading that too 5 literally, Your Honor. I think the witness has clarified, 6 as I understand it, the terms are interchangeable with the 7 witness.
, 8- JUDGE SMITH: I don't think so. Overruled.
9 MR. LENALD: Could I have the question read?
10 (Accordingly, the pending question was read 11 back by the court reporter.)
12 BY MR. LEWALD:
13 Q Do you understand the question?
() 14 A (Mangan) Yes.
.i 15 My concern was not what the contract said but what 16 they thought their responsibilities were.
. 17 Q Could we move on to the next bus company, page 20 18 of your testimony, the Big W Transportation?
19 Now, you say that the Big W, on page 20 of your i
20 testimony, is a company that was not being relied upon by 21 the SPMC a year ago, so you had no reason to interview the 22 owner / manager until now.
23 Do you see that?
24 A (Mangan) Yes, I do. ]
. i 25 Q Now, on the bottom of the page, in reference to
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s C E ' MANGAN, PAOLILLO -' CROSS' 193591 I . - 1 Mr..' Sleeper, you sayLthat.he'had' contacted'your office a l 4: 2 ' year earlier.for'information about Seabrook at'a time ~when.
l:
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-3 he had-just been through.Seabrook bus driving' training and 4 was evaluating whether to participate further.
5 Did he tell you what bus-company he was from?.
M' 6 A (Mangan)- I did not talk to himidirectly at,that-
'7 time, p
] ', 8 Q You didn't talk to him directly?-
9 A (Mangan) The first - a year earlier, no.
10 Q Now, in February of 1989, you sought some.
~
l 11 information from Big W with respect to the arrangements that 12 it had to provide buses for Seabrook,. correct? ,
13 A (Mangan) Yes, I did. I
() "14 Q And the bus company declined to discuss the '
- 15 matter?
16 A (Mangan) Yes, they did.
.g, .17 Q Now do I understand that you contacted Mr. Sleeper
- 18. on'your own following that?
19 A (Mangan) Yes, I'did.
20 Q And you did this, you say, on. February 15th? ;
- 21. A (Mangan) Yes, I did. -)
22 Q And you interviewed him, did you?
23 A (Mangan) I spoke with him on the phone.
24 Q You spoke with him on the phone?
25 A (Mangan) Yes.
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< -( )' l' Q- And in the course of your conversation with him, l 6
a 2 he did tell you, did he not, that he no longer worked for 1 i
3 the Big W7 1 4 A (Mangan). Yes, he said he did not work for Big W.
5 He did work -- he still was signed up to participate.
'6 Q Did he tell you that he hadn't worked for Big W 7 since June of 19887
, 8 A (Mangan) No, he.did not..
9 Q Did you ask him when the last time he worked for ,.
10 Big W7 11 A (Mangan) No , I did not.
12 Q Weren't you concerned whether or not the L
13 information that he was giving you was information that-() 14 might affect a present situation at the Big W? l
.15 (Long pause.).
16 MR. BROCK: Do you understand the question?
. 17 THE WITNESS: (Mangan) Could you repeat the 18 question?
19 BY MR. LEWALD:
20 Q Let me ask it a different way.
21 Mr. Sleeper was informing you about some of his j 22 observations at the time that he was working for Big W. l 23 A (Mangan) Yes, he was. ;
)
24 Q And you knew that was some time ago, did you not? )
25 A (Mangan) I understood that he still had some s
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1 contact with Big;W..
o "2' Q .He'had'some contact but he'wasn't working for .
.I 3 (them?.
- 4. A- (Mangan) .He was'not employedi working for them 5 full time, but.it was my understanding-that he did have 6 contact with Big W because.he was listed as one of their
- 7. drivers-for.New Hampshire. Yankee.
.. I 8 Q He was what,111sted?
p '
9 A (Mangan). Yes.
.a 10 Q Ae of1what time?
11 A (Mangan) At the time of our conversation he told 12- me that he was one'of their drivers.
13 Q Even_though he no-longer worked for Big W?
A. (Mangan) 14 Yes.
15- Q Is there any reference in your testimony that Mr.
16 Sleeper was not presently working for Big W7 LT 17 A (Mangan) No, there isn't.
18 Q Mr. Paolillo, I would like to return to the L 19 questionnaire that I think we marked yesterday as Exhibit
- 20 51. I think you have a copy of that.
21 A (Paolillo) Yes, I do.
22 JUDGE COLE: Is that 537-I L 23 MR. LEWALD: Fifty-three. Thank you, Dr. Cole.
l 24 BY MR. LEWALD:
4 -
25 Q 'Now at about what time was your first introduction
~
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i LT fg MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19362 U 1- to this questionnaire?
2- A .(Paolillo) Beginning of January '89.
3 Q Beginning of January.
'4 And did you work along with anyone from the 5 Attorney General's office to formulate the questions that l 6 are on this questionnaire?
, 7 A (Paolillo) No , I did not.
i 8 Q Did anyone from the Attorney General's office 9 explain to you how you should present this questionnaire to 10 a bus company or a towing company or ambulance company?
11 A (Paolillo) Yes, they did.
12 Q And what were the instructions you were given?
13 A (Paolillo) To use this questionnaire as a
) 14 guideline.
15 Q Use it as a guideline?
16 A (Paolillo) Yes, in our interview.
. 17 Q And with respect to the first three paragraphs, 18 were you instructed to inform the bus company owner or 19 manager of the contents of those first three paragraphs?
20 A (Paolillo) Only to ask them if they could tell me 21 the truth. That's the only reference that I made to the 22 first three paragraphs.
23 Q And did you get the impression that the people you 24 had talked to at the Attorney General's office were under 25 the view that what information they had prior to that time Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 I
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'j~)g im 1 was not the truth?
I L ' '
2 A (Paolillo) I had no reason to believe that. )
3 Q Does the concept " honest truth" have meaning to 4 you?
l 5 A (Paolillo) Yes, it does.
L .. ~i 6 0 What does it mean? j l
7 A (Paolillo) It's just as it says, "the honest
- i. 8 truth".
9 Q The honest truth means the honest truth?
d 10 A (Paolillo) I don't know any other way to explain ]
11 it.
12 Q Is the honest truth an unexaggerated truth?
13 A (Paolillo) I don't know.
14 Q Did you explain to the witness that you were from 15 the Massachusetts Attorney General's office, or the 16 respondent, and that you wanted the unexaggerated truth of
. 17 the situation? (
18 A (Paolillo) I did not state it that way.
19 Q How many bus drivers -- excuse me -- bus owners or 20 managers or ambulance owners or managers did you talk to? j t
21 A (Paolillo) I don't recall offhand. Some of them, l 22 I contacted individually, and some of the time the j l
23 interviews were conducted jointly.
1 24 Q And some you reached just on the phone? l 25 A (Paolillo) Yes.
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cs MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19364 ,
1 Q Was this your main assignment at the time or did 2 you have other assignments? ,
I 3 A (Paolillo) This was my main assignment.
4 Q And do you have an estimate as to how much time 5 you spent, how much total time, how many days?
6 A (Paolillo) It lasted from the beginning of 7 January until middle of February just about, approximately.
$ 8 Q A month and a half?
9 A (Paolillo) A little bit over a month and a half.
10 Q Are you the author of any of the testimony that 11 you have adopted?
12 A (Paolillo) Yes.
13 Q And can you tell me what portion you are the
(%
() 14 author of?
15 A (Paolillo) Do you mean which companies or which 16 parts of the. testimony?
. 17 Q Which part of the testimony did you write?
18 A (Paolillo) The ones that are referenced that have 19 my name next to it.
20 Q And that's all that you wrote?
21 A (Paolillo) Yes, and the one's that are indicated 22 as "both", we --
23 Q You and Ms. Mangan?
24 A (Paolillo) Yes.
25 Q Got together and wrote?
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\l 1 A (Paolillo) Yes, that's correct.
)
- - 2 Q And the remainder of the testimony was done by 3 somebody else?
4 A (Paolillo) Just Ms. Mangan, the ones that I 5 didn't.
6 Q Could I ask the Panel to turn to page 38 of the 7 testimony?
i 8 And, Ms. Mangan, you refer to the Federal Auto 9 Rcpair of Byfield, Massachusetts as a company that you 10 contacted with respect to, you say, a letter of agreement 11 with Seabrook to provide up to two tow trucks in the event 12 of an emergency evacuation. And you go on to say that Mr.
13 Whitehead, because he hasn't received the promised payment,
() 14 he considers that he's under no obligation and would not get 15 involved in the event of a radiological emergency.
16 Do you see that?
. 17 A (Mangan) Yes.
18 Q Now on the assumption that Mr. Whitehead was paid, 19 would that change the situation as you see it?
20 A (Mangan) I don't know.
21 Q You don't know? You don't know if he was paid, 22 whether he would perform the service under the letter of 23 agreement that you refer to?
24 A (Mangan) I don't know.
25 Q But in any event, from your testimony you have i
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1 MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19366 n
k2 1 1 concluded tha't Federal Auto Repair cannot be counted on to
.. 2 provide service in any event?
3 A (Mangan) As of the date that I wrote this 4 testimony.
5 MR. LEMALD: I don't believe I have any further 6 questions.
7 JUDGE SMITH: Ms. Chan.
, 8 (Document proffered to all parties.)
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MS. CHAN:
11 Q I would like to address this question to both the 12 members of the Panel. I'm referring back to Mr. Lewald's 13 questioning about the first three paragraphs of your
() 14 questionnaire that you were not instructed to use the 15 questions verbatim, but you'were to use it as a guideline.
16 Did you at any time explicitly ensure people that
., 17 their responses, no matter what they were, would not have 18 any adverse consequences to them or to their bus companies?
19 A (Mangan) No, we did not.
20 Q It's my understanding from your testimony that 21 telephone contacts were made individually to the suppliers.
22 But when you went to face-to-face interviews, both of you 23 approached the interviewees; is that correct?
24 A (Paolillo) Yes, that's correct.
25 Q And can you tell me how you identified yourselves
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1 to the interviewees when you called or when you presented
. 2 yourself for face-to-face interviews?
3 A (Paolillo) We first told them our names and then 4 where we were from.
5 0 And could you just give me a sample of -- let's 6 say I were an interviewee. How did you approach -- did you 7 make an appointment first on the telephone if you were --
, 8 A (Mangan) For some of them.
9 Q And others, you would just show up and look for {
10 the person in charge?
11 A (Paolillo) That's correct.
12 A (Mangan) Yes.
13 Q And can you just tell me how you introduced
.O(_/ 14 yourself? Let's say I'm a st pplier, and I'm not expecting 15 you to show up.
16 A (Mangan) We would come in and ray. I would say,
, 17 Hi, my name le Maureen Mangan. I'm from the Massachusetts 18 Attorney General's office, and I would show them my ID with 19 my picture on it. And I would explain to them the reason 20 that we were here is that we were evaluating, our office was 21 evaluating the Seabrook emergency planning. We just wanted 22 to speak with them to see if they understood what their 23 obligation was.
24 Q Did you say that you were investigators, or that
)
25 you were just with the office? l l
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'-] 1 A (Paolillo) Sometimes we did; sometimes we didn't.
. 2 A (Mangan) My identification does say that I'm an 3 investigator on it.
4 Q Is it like a photo ID, or is it a badge?
5 A (Mangan) It's a photo ID.
6 A (Paolillo) It's a photo ID.
7 Q Are you familiar with the NRC regulations
, 8 regarding the evaluation of the adequacy of offsite 9 emergency planning for nuclear power plants at the operating 10 license review stage where state and/or local governments 11 decline to participate in offsite emergency planning?
12 A (Mangan) No, I'm not.
13 A (Paolillo) No, I'm not.
'O
(_/ 14 Q I think, Ms. Mangan, in your prefiled testimony 15 ,
you mentioned that, in the course of your other 16 investigative activities, you've done corporate record
, 17 checks?
18 A (Mangan) Yes.
19 Q And what is the purpose of those? This is for the 20 location of companies?
21 A (Mangan) And to find out the owners and members 22 of the board of directors.
23 Q And are companies in the State of Massachusetts 24 required to register this information with the state?
25 A (Mangan) Corporations are.
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1 MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19369 )
I~') I k> 1 Q And in the usual course of your investigations, f
. 2 just your usual, normal everyday technique, can you tell me 3 how you would locate'an individual corporation if their 4 phone is disconnected?
5 A (Mangan) Sometimes I would go, actually go there 6 and talk to people that may be near the building and ask 7 them if they knew where they were. Or I would sometimes go
, 8 through the phone company to see if they have a new phone.
9 Q So if they had moved, you would just go to the 10 site and question the people around and find out if they 11 knew where they were?
12 A (Mangan) Yes. In an investigation, it would 13 cepend on how important it was to find the person.
n
() 14 Q Were you aware at the time of your instructions to 15 conduct this investigation, were you aware of the 16 Massachusetts Attorney General's position in the litigation
, 17 in this case?
18 A (Mangan) Yes, I was.
19 Q And can you tell me how you were made aware, how 20 you became aware of that position?
21 Were you told by the attorneys who gave you the 22 directions and the questions?
23 A (Mangan) No , I wasn't.
24 Q What were the objectives of your investigation as 25 you understand them?
A
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.)
1 A (Mangan) .The objectives of the investigation was
.- 2 to find out from the people that were running these 3 companies exactly what they had committed to do-in case of 4 an emergency, and if.they were aware of some of the risks.
5 Q And these. risks were the ones that were:
6 represented to you~in the questionnaires?
7 A (Mangan) Yes, they were.
', 8 9
10 11 12
'13 O 14 15 16
.- 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Heritage Reporting Corporation
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, MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19371 1 Q And if someone told you they were not aware of the 2 risk you would inform them of the information in the 3 questionnaire as to what the risk would be?
4 A (Mangan) No, I wouldn't.
5 Q There's some questions in the questionnaire, if I 6 can direct your attention to them.
7 On the fourth page of the questionnaire. If I can
', 8 read the question to you, it's: "Do your drivers 9 specifically understand that they may be asked to drive into 10 an airborne plume of dangerous radiation coming from the 11 Seabrook plant or into areas contaminate," I assume it means 12 contaminated, "with dangerous radiation after the plume has 13 passed?" i
/m
(,) 14 And the next question: "Have each of them been 15 asked if they are willing to do this?
16 Have each of them stated that they are willing to
, 17 do this?
18 Do you believe that all of them will do this in a 19 real emergency? 4 l
20 What have they been told regarding the l
21 dangerousness of this job?" j 22 And then it says " (explore . ) "
l 23 And then there'.s another question: "Have they '
24 been told that in the event of a Seabrook accident they will 25 be given the option to select a nondangerous assignment that
(~)#
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, :;- g MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19372
[ V- 1 avoids. driving into the radiation plume or into any
- 2 contaminated areas?" 1 1
3 And after that it says: " (explore . ) " f 4 When you conducted your interview, although this 5 was only guidance, did you point out if people did not know 6 or understand that their responsibilities would include- 'l 7 driving into contaminated areas?
', 8 Did you express the contents of these three 9 questions to them? .
'* f 10 A (Mangan) I may have. d 11 I did not read these three questions word for word i I
12 to any of the people.
13 Q How about, Mr. Paolillo?
14 A (Paolillo) No.
15 The same respcnse. I didn't read the questions f 1 16 word for word. f
, 17 Q But if someone said'they were willing to drive 18 into a contaminated area or didn't know what their j 19 responsibilities were, did you inform them that this would 20 be included in the expectations of the utility as part of 21 their participation? )
22 A (Mangan) No, I did not.
i 23 0 In the course of your investigations did you l 24 inquire of the people that you were speaking to at the bus ]
25 companies or ambulance or tow truck companies whether or not O Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 l
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19373 E/ 1 they had been contacted by anyone other than yourselves as a 2 result of their commitment to provide vehicles to New 3 Hampshire Yankee in case of an emergency?
4 A (Mangan) I don't recall if I asked that question.
5 I don't think I did.
6 Q Mr. Paolillo?
7 A (Paolillo) I don't believe I ever asked that
, 8 question.
9 Q Did any of them indicate to you that someone had 10 already called them about the question, either on your first 11 interview or on your second interview?
12 Did they remember your first interview, if it was 13 the second interview?
()
w 14 A (Mangan) Yes, 15 I had spoke -- some of the same people I had spoke 16 to on both interviews.
, 17 Q And to the best of your recollection you don't 18 recall anyone mentioning that they had been contacted before 19 by anyone including yourselvos?
20 A (Mangan) I know at least one company made a 21 reference that thsy had been contacted.
22 Q Do you recall which company that was?
23 A (Mangan) Can I ask a question?
24 I'm not sure if it was one that was stricken. I'm 25 not sure.
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'l .Q .That's right. ]
~
C 2 If you recall that, if you could testify to:it?-
3' A (Mangan)~ The first time I interviewed'Mr. Gadd
~
'4- from McGregor-Smith he.made reference to the fact that he 5- 'had been -- he'had-received telephone calls from members of 6 the town.s that he provided school bus services to.
7 7 Q I see.
- i. 8 These were members of the towns in Massachusetts.
9 or New Hampshire or both?
10- A (Mangan) It was Massachusetts.
11 Q Massachusetts.
12 Did he say anything about the~ contents of the 13 telephone calls or just that he received calls?
() 14 A (Mangan) I don't. remember.
15 Q Is there anything in your testimony.that reflects.
16 that -- the original testimony that has since been excluded,
. 17 that reflected that information that you obtained about the 18' other telephone calls from towns?
19 A (Mangan) No , there is not.
20 Q Getting back to the discussion about questioning 21 the interviewees, whether or not their drivers would enter 22 contaminated areas. If they said that they didn't know that 23 and you said that you wouldn't tell them about - you 24 wouldn't refer them to your question about the dangerous t
25 radiation.
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K' 1 Would you mention the protected gear?
2 Let me refer you to one of your questions and 3 perhaps that will help.
4 On the fifth page of your questionnaire and the 5 first question at the top of the page says: "Have they been 6 told that those who will have to drive into a radiation 7 plume or into the contaminated areas will be issued
', 8 protective clothing?"
9 Did you raise that issue with them?
10 A (Mangan) Well, some of the people. Yes.
11 Q What would their response have to be for you to 12 mention that?
13 A (Mangan) The response would have been, yes, they
() 14 believe that they would be issued protective clothing.
15 Q The question was, if they said they would drive 16 into a radiated area, did you then ask the question whether
. 17 or not they knew if protective clothing would be issued?
18 Do you understand the question? I can rephrase it 19 if you're having difficulty?
20 A (Mangan) Yes, I understand the question.
21 Obviously if the person would say, no, we're not 22 going to drive into a radiation area I wouldn't go any 23 further and ask them about any protective gear.
24 Q All right.
25 A (Mangan) But if they said, yes, then I would ask Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 j i
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.t-MANGAN, PAOLILLO CROSS 19376 1 them -- sometimes would ask them what kind of -- what kind a
2 of measures would be taken for their safety.
q 3 Q I see.
4' 4 So if they.said they would not drive into a 5 contaminated area you didn't pursue it further and suggest 6 that protective gear might be issued?
,, 7 A (Mangan) No, I did not.
'.. 8 Q And if they said they would drive into the area 9 you inquired on the basis of whether or not that was because 10 they believed protective gear would be required?
11 A. (Mangan) Yes, I did.
12 Q I notice a number of times in your testimony.
13 there's a reference to a high driver turnover rate.
14 Can you tell me whether or not -- I didn't see a
( ).
15 question in your questionnaire, but did you ask the bus 16 company representatives if they had a high turnover rate of
. 17 drivers?
18 A (Mangan) Some of them.
19 Q So the responses that you have in your testimony 20 were the ones that you had asked if they had a high turnover 21 rate, they responded in the affirmative?
22 A (Mangan) Yes.
23 Some of the companies mentioned it first to me I 24 without asking them specifically.
25 Q If they mention that they did have a high turnover la Heritage Reporting Corporation l (202) 628-4888 l
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' \~
1 ' rate, did you investigate or probe further as to why --
2 where the people might go if they left or where~they went or 3 did you just leave it? If they had a high turnover rate you 4 just marked it on your questionnaire and left'it at that?
5 A (Mangan) I would just usually leave it at that.
6 Q So you didn't question whether or not you thought 7 -- the interviewees thought that they might have gone-to l i 8 another company or switched over to another.iob in the field 9 as drivers? You just left it at that?
10 A (Mangan) Yes, I did.
11 Q In your testimony on page 17, on the first 12 sentence of the second paragraph you state, both of you -- I 13 guess this is a jointly sponsored piece of testimony.
() 14 "That according to Mr. Breau a total of 60 drivers 15 have been trained by Seabrook to respond to an emergency, 16 but he feels that 90 percent of them are involved only to
. 17 receive the financial rewards."
18 Did you question why so many drivers would accept 19 the training and the financial award and then not drive into 20 a contaminated area?
21 A (Mangan) Yes, I did.
22 O What did he say?
23 A (Mangan) He said that his EMTs are always looking 24 for training. It's free training for them and getting 25 knowledge in an area that they would not usually ret.
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19378 k- - 1 Q And that they would accept money even though they 2 had no intention of responding; he actually said that?
3 A (Mangan) Yes, he did.
4 Q On page 25 of your testimony you discuss the 5
5 Marathon Waybridge Company of Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, Ms.
l,'
6 Mangan?
7 A (Mangan) Yes.
i 8 Q And you found that their telephone was 9 disconnected?
10 A (Mangan) Yes, I did.
l 11 Q And that they were no longer in business at the 12 Framingham location and that they were no longer in 13 business.
(). 14 How did you confirm that they were no longer in 15 business?
l 16 A (Mangan) They were no longer at the location.
1 17 And if a company has a phone number change or disconnect, if 18 they were still in business, in normal practice they would 19 have had their phone -- when it says disconnected they would 20 have left their people aware that they are still in business 21 and given a phone number for it.
22 Q So they would have a forwarding number when you 23 called?
1 24 A (Mangan) Yes.
e 25 Q Can you look at -- do you have your interview 1
I')
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o MANGEN, PAOLILLO.- CROSS 19379.
r k- 1- forms there?. I have an interview' form from March 30th, 1988
-. 2 .from Marathon Bus Line, Shrewsbury.
3 'A (Mangan) I have it.
4 Q Did you have this document with you at the time-5 you were checking on the company the second time around?
'* f 6 I note here it has a note, I believe in your 7 handwriting that says, " Disconnected" and then a number sign
, 8 and then it says " number." " Disconnected number."
9 Is that the copy you have in front.of you?
10 A (Mangan) Yes, it is.
11 Q Soryou had this document with you at the time you 1:2 discovered their telephone number was disconnected?
- L3 A (Mangan) Yes, I did.
() 14' Q Would you look on page six of that questionnaire, 15 the third to the last question on.the page says: "Did you 16 understand clearly that if this accident occurred at the 17 Seabrook Station Nuclear Reactor that you have agreed to 18 send your buses and drivers into areas which may have been 19 contaminated with radiation?"
20 And your response there is?
21 A (Mangan) Yes.
22 Q Yes.
23 And then it says: "If yes, why did you agree to 24 this?"
25 Can you read your response there, please?
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-r MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19380 Il~ A' (Mangan) "Get people-out of the area as soon'as j
.. . 2 1possible morally."
3' Q And the first question.on page seven is:'"Do'your
! 4 drivers understand that they may be sent into areas 5 ' contaminated with radiation?" l 6 A (Mangan) Yes.
7 Q, And two questions down: "Do you.think the number
- l. 8 of personnel identified'in the letter of agreement as 9 available accurately states the number of drivers who would
'10 in fact show up to provide service in the event of an actual 11 emergency at Seabrook?
12 " Explain, how many would be likely to show up in 13 fact?"
() 1 14 Can you read your answer,.please?
15 A. (Mangan) Yes.
16 "Seabrook would send a list of drivers to Marathon.
17 after they passed training. More than 36."
18 Q And you had~this'information~when you went to try l 19 to find the bus' company?-
20 .A- -(Mangan) Yes,.I did, 21 Q And based.on your experience of investigations,
-22 would you say that this information was affirm'ative -- would 23 affirmatively verify that Marathon Bus Company would respond 24' and go fato a contaminated area if they were called to?
25 A (Mangan) Yes.
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4 MANGAN,-PAOLILLO --CROSS- 19381-a,
'1 ' :But I believe Marathon' Bus Line ils no longer in
- i. 2 business.-
.3 Q Did you'run a corporate record check on the 4 company?
5 A (Mangan) No, I did not.
"U 6~ - Q' .Did you. check the phone directory to see if-they g -7 might.have had a new listing in another location or another
', 8 town?
- 9. A' (Mangan) I did not check under the name Marathon.
10 Q Did you check under some other name, Waybridge?
11 A- (Mangan) I checked under the name Waybridge.=
12 Q Waybridge.
13 Did you check with the post office, maybe they had O 14 a forwardine address 2 15 A (Mangan) No, I did not.
16 Q Referring your attention to your testimony about
... 17 Bay State Ambulance on page 13. On the last paragraph Mr.
18 Sylvain advised you that the Bay State Ambulance is
-19 currently negotiating to sell part of their ambulance 20 company and that the sale would occur some time aft.er April 21 1, 1989.
22 Have you had occasion to contact them after April 23 1 to confirm that the number of vehicles -- confirm the 24 number-of vehicles that might be available?
25 A (Mangan) No , I have not.
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}
n\w)
- 1. Q Do either of you have any experience with managing 2 .a transportation company?
3 A (Mangan) No.
4 A (Paolillo) No.
5 Q In your testimony there is some statements about 6 mechanical breakdown rates.
7 Can you explain the basis of those statements?
, 8 MR. BROCK: Could we have a specific reference 9 please, Ms. Chan?
10 MS. CHAN: Sure.
11 (Pause) 12 MS. CHAN: Page 29 and 30 there's some, I guess, 13 summary statements on page 30 at the top of the page.
() 14 It says: " Based on this information it appears 15 that in the event of a Seabrook emergency fewer than 35 Big 16 W buses can be counted on to respond due to the likelihood
, 17 of mechanical problems that may prevent some of the 35 16 offered vehicles from responding. If five were broken down 19 that would mean 30 are mechanically fit to go."
20 BY MS. CHAN:
21 Q Is there any basis for just deciding that five 22 were broken down or was that just an example that if you ,
23 subtracted five from 35 you would end up with 307 !
24 A (Mangan) No.
25 I was basing that on what Mr. Sleeper told me when v Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 o
r MANGAN, PAOLILLO - CROSS 19383
\/ 1 four or.five buses broke down in the week of June 1988.
2 Q This is a one time? He was referring to a one 3 time situation where he had some buses that were out of 4 servir,e ?
5 A (Mangan) Yes.
6 Q And from that you concluded -- you just 7 extrapolated that just for conservatism you would just take
, 8 that five away from the number that were available?
9 A (Mangan) Yes.
10 I stated that I based it on the previous 11 information. I 12 Q Do either of you have any experience with driver 13 absenteeism?
e (x) 14 A (Mangan) No.
1 15 A (Paolillo) No. I 16 Q So that any comments in your testimony about i
,- 17 driver absenteeism or not showing up was just your opinion l
/
18 of what would happen in an actual emergency?
19 MR. BROCK: Objection, Your Honor, we would like a 20 specific reference to the witness before we get a question.
21 (Pause) 22 MS. CHAN: On page 18, second paragraph: " Based on 1
23 what Mr. Breau told us there's no reasonable assurance that '
24 Marlboro Hudson can ever provide more than nine ambulances, 25 eight wheelchair vans, and three critical care units; and
(')
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1 that"these numbers: may well be optimistic given his comments .
4- /2 .about his drivers." q 3 BY MS. CHAN:
4- Q Was this based on information that he told you 5' that his. drivers might not show up?
l' 6 A (Mengan) Yes, it was.
7 'Q- Is there anything in your. testimony that you can
,, 8' point to that says that the drivers would.not show.up?
9 This is the same one we referred to that the EMTs 10 take training only for the sake of receiving the training
' 11- and that they would accept the money even'though they didn't
.12 plan to show up; is that1the basis of your conclusion or 13 summary, 'I'm sorry?
'14 (Long pause) 15- BY MS. CHAN:
16 Q Mas this something that you -- I mean, this
... 17 summary that the numbers might well be optimistic given his 18 comments about the drivers, was this something you' inferred 19 from his comment that they did it just to receive the 20 training?
21 A (Mangan) Yes, it was.
22 Q Thank you.
23 MS. CHAN: I have no further questions at this 24 . time.
25 Thank you very much.
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - EXAMINATION 19385 1 EXAMINATION BY' JUDGE COLE 7 2 JUDGE COLE: Just a couple of questions.
3 With respect to the interviews, what fraction of 4 the-interviews were done as personal interviews as 5' contrasted with the telephone interview, roughly?
6 THE WITNESS: (Mangan) Roughly maybe 60 percent 7 in person,-40 percent on the phone.
i= 8 JUDGE COLE: 'Is it safe to say that with the large-9 companies you made an effort to have personal interviews?
10 THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) Yes.
11 JUDGE COLE: With respect to the interview form, 12 Applicants' Exhibit 53,-did you make an effort to complete 13 all the items on the form?
. '14 THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) Not all.
15- JUDGE COLE: How did you select which ones not to 16 complete?
.. 17 THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) We didn't go question by 18' question. It was used as a guideline. And when a question 19 was responded to, sometimes the interviewees went on to 20 answer another question at the same time. It was more --
21 our interviews were more discussions and conversations than "
22 direct questions. ,
23 JUDGE COLE: About how long were these interviews?
24 THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) Approximately 15 to 20 25 minutes.
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19386 1 JUDGE COLE: Did you show any of the people you 4
2 interviewed the int'erview form?
3 .THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) No.
4 JUDGE COLE: You did not leave any of them a copy
.5 of the interview form?
I 6' THE WITNESS: (Paolillo) No.
7 JUDGE COLE: Did you interview any bus drivers?
'. 8 THE WITNESS: (Mangan) I spoke to one on the 9 phone.
10 JUDGE COLE: How did you happen to speak to him?
11 THE WITNESS: (Mangan) He had contacted our 12 office previously.
13 JUDGE COLE: Okay, so you made no effort to
) 14 interview the bus drivers. Your contact and principal 15 contact was with the principals of the company to get the 16 basic information about the company and their agreements?
. 17 THE WITNESS: (Mangan) Yes,-it was. ;
18 JUDGE COLE: Thank you. That's all I have.
19 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Brock? l 20 MR. BROCK: Thank you, Your Honor.
21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. BROCK:
23 Q Ms. Mangan, am I correct that you were involved 24 in, as the testimony reflects, two waves of interviews; one 25 in March of ' 88 and the second in February of ' 897 I
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LMENGAN,'PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19387-l 1 A (Mangan) .Yes,.I was.
. . 1
' 2 Q And you' interviewed certain-companies.on both 3 occasions and there' were other companies in February of 1' 89, 4' 'you interviewed that you had not'previously. interviewed, 5 correct?
- (Mangan) 6 A' Yes.
7 .Q And the information appearing-in the testimony,
[. 8' again as indicated, is as recent as of February 1989; is 9 that correct?
.1 10 A (Mangan)' Yes, it is.
11 Q Now, I.know this has been covered on a couple of 12 occasions, but I want to be clear about this.
13 Ms. Mangan, will you state what was your
( )' 14 understanding of the purpose for which you were conducting 15 these interviews?
16 A (Mangan) .My understanding was the. reason for
.- 17 conducting the interviews was to determine what the people 18 'that were running these companies believed their 19 responsibilities to be.
20 Q To New Hampshire Yankee?
21 A (Mangan) To New Hampshire Yankee.
22 Q In the event of an emergency at Seabrook?
- 23. A (Mangan) Yes.
24 Q Okay, Mr. Paolillo, does that conform with your' 25 understanding or did you have a different understanding?
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J MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT ,19388; 1 A. (Paolillo) No, I had the same understanding.
2 -Q Ms. Mangan, to your knowledge, are any of the 3- company representatives who you-interviewed, were they 4 attorneys?-
5 A' '(Mangan) Not to my knowledge.
6 Q And neither'you or Mr. Paolillo are attorneys, 7 correct?
f, 8 A. (Mangan) No.
9 Q When you conducted the interviews, did you provide 10 some document to the company representative or discuss 11 certain terms in any writing while you were conducting the 12 interview?
13 A (Paolillo) No.
14 Q Ms. Mangan?
15 A (Mangan) No.
16 Q This was just a verbal discussion you had with the
.. 17 company representatives?
18 A (Mangan) Yes.
19 Q And am I correct, Ms. Mangan, you had not, j 20 previous to your testimony here, had not seen this j 21 transportation agreement or a copy of the transportation
.i 4
22 agreement which Mr. Lewald made repeated reference to?
23 And let me just show you for the record. I'm 24 looking at page 447 of Applicants' Exhibit 41. That's in 25- Volume 2, entitled " Transportation Agreement". .
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1- A (Mangan) What page?
'- 2 Q Page 447.
- 3. Do you have that in front of you?
4 MS. CHAN : - Mr. Brock, do you have.the page? I 5' don't think it's what you think it is.
6 MR. BROCK: Could we go off the record just a
., 7 moment, Your Honor?
i 8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 BY MR. BROCK:
10 Q Okay, Ms. Mangan, you have in front of you what's 11 entitled " Transportation Agreement", and we are at page 1 of 12 Applicants' 41, correct?
13 A (Mangan) Yes.
14 Q And that's at least the same kind of agreement, 15 the form is the same as you recall.it that Mr. Lewald was 16 questioning you on; is that right?
6 17 A (Mangan) Yes, it is.
18 Q And had you ever seen this document, or a document 19 in this form prior to your testimony here?
20 A (Mangan) No, I have not.
21 Q And you, Mr. Paolillo?
22 A (Paolillo) No, I have not.
23 Q And when you were interviewing these service 24 providers in February of 1987, did you or the service 25 provider at any time have this document in front of you or I
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'N / 1 make any specific reference to this transportation agreement
.- '2 as it appears here?
3 A (Mangan) Could you ask that again?
4 Q Yes.
5 Let me ask you this. When you were interviewing 6 any of the company officials, you.did not have a copy.of 7 this transportation agreement in front of you; is that
',. 8 right?
9 A (Mangan) No, I did not.
10 Q Did the company official pull out a copy of any 11 written agreement with New Hampshire Yankee?
12 A (Mangan) No.
13 Q This was a verbal discussion between you and the
() 14 representative?
15 A (Mangan) Yes, it was.
16 Q Okay, and that's the same for you, Mr. Paolillo, 17 correct?
18 A (Paolillo) Yes.-
19 Q Now the survey form, Applicants' 53 that's been 20 discussed, that is the form that, as I understand it, was 21 your guide in conducting your interviews in February of 22 19897 23 A (Mangan) Yes, it was.
24 Q Bat as you testified, you did not read these 25 questions verbatim; is that right?
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19391 l 7_
0 N' _] 1 A (Mangan) No, I did not. I
. 2 Q Mr. Paolillo? q i
3 A (Paolillo) No, I did not. l l
4 Q And as it appears in the testimony, the comments i 5 of the owners, in February of 1989, are accurate, to your i 6 knowledge, as they appear in the testimony?
7 A (Mangan) Yes, they are.
, 8 A (Paolillo) Yes, they are.
9 Q Now in your conversations with the company 10 representatives, did you have occasion to discuss with them 11 who would have priority in the event of an emergency at 12 Seabrook? Would it be the company's normal business 13 operations or would it be the Seabrook emergency; or did you
() 14 have occasion to discuss that matter?
15 MS. CHAN: Was that covered on cross, Mr. Brock?
16 MR. BROCK: The questions came up repeatedly as to 17 the scope of what was discussed with these company owners, 18 Ms. Chan. And I am asking if that is the topic which was 19 involved as part of the conversation. And the testimony, 20 you know, the questioning has gone to try and focus on what 21 was the understanding, the intent of these conversations.
22 And I'm trying to get as clear and as full a picture of what 23 was discussed, if possible.
24 BY MR. BROCK:
25 Did you have occasion to discuss that issue with Q
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19392
' )- 1 company representatives?
.-- 2 A '(Mangan) Yes, I did.
3' Q Okay. And can you state generally what was the, 4 or was there a general view of company owners as to which-5 . would have priority, normal business or Seabrook emergency?
6 A (Mangan) The general view was that their normal 7 contracts are their first priority.
, 8 Q And, Mr. Paolillo,-was that your understanding?
l 9 A (Paolillo) Yes, it was.
10 11 12 13
) 14
'15 16
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'l Q- So if I understand you correctly then, fin the.
e 2 event there was an emergency and normal business operations 3 -required a prior ~ commit'ent m elsewhere,.at least until that 4 ~ commitment was satisfied the' companies would not be able to 5 make the vehicles available; is that.your understanding,-NW.
6 Mangan?
7- A '(Mangan) Yes.
/,: 8 Q Mr. Paolillo?
9' A. (Paolillo) Yes. -
- 10. Q Now there was some examination by Mr. Lewald about 11 the term "up to" and whether a company could provide "up to" 12 a certain number of vehicles.
< 13 Do'you recall that examination?
14 A (Mangan) Yes, I do.
15 Q Is at least.part of your comments with respect to.
16 whether a company could provide "up to" a certain number of
, 17 vehicles, is that related to the fact that.there may-have 18 been prior commitments or could be prior commitments of the 19 owners in the event of.an emergency?
20 A (Mangan) Yes, it was.
21 Q I'm showing you a copy of an interview form-dated 22 2-2-89 with the Front Line Ambulance Company. I think Mr.
23 Lewald questioned you on that.
24 (Document proffered to parties. )
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1 BY MR. BROCK:
2 Q Ms. Mangan, again, you have in front of you a 3 document of the Front Line Company indicating an interview.
4 of 2-2-89; is that correct?
5 A. (Mangan)- Yes, I do.
6 Q And these are your notes conducting of that 7 interview?
, 8 A (Mangan) Yes, it is.
9 Q And on the second page of that form about_a third
, 10 of the way down the question is: " Provide 'up to' how many 11 buses?"
12 And then there is a response: "15 ambulances, 15 13 wheelchair."
() 14 And the next question: " Provide 'up to' how many 15 drivers?"
16 And it appears -- what is that answer, can you
., 17 tell me?
18 A (Mangan) "Two drivers per ambulance and one 19 driver per wheelchair van."
20 Q And those were the responses that you were given; 21 is that correct?
22 A (Mangan) Yes, they were.
23 Q And then the next question is: "What does the 24 phrase 'up to' mean in your view?"
25 What answer were you given?
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.(Mangan) Mr. Shuman told'me, "As many as
~
1 A
.3' 2 available. He has regular contracts that come first."
3' Q And that's the kind of answer that you generally 4 got'from the various companies; is that correct?
5- A~ (Mangan) Yes, it is.
6' MR.-LEWALD: No objection.
7- MR. BROCK: Your Honor, we would offer what has
, 8- been -- well, I guess we would like to mark it and also 9 offer it into evidence what's entitled " Bus, Van, Ambulance, 10 Tow Company. Interview Form," dated 2-2-89 for the Front Line 11 Company.as identified in the testimony.
12 JUDGE SMITH: It would be your exhibit 76.
13 (The document referred 14 to was marked for 15 identification as 16 Mass AG Exhibit 76.)
, 17 JUDGE SMITH: Are there any objections?
18 MR. LENALD: I don't have any objections.
19 JUDGE SMITH: No?
20 MR. LEWALD: No. No objections.
21 JUDGE SMITH: Attorney General Exhibit 76 is 22 received.
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,]
w~ (The document referred to, 1
- 2 having been previously 3 marked for identification 4 as Mass AG Exhibit 76,.
5 was received in evidence.)
6 BY MR. BROCK:
7 Q Ms. Mangan, could you turn to page 36 of your
~,. 8 testimony, please, about the middle part of that page where 9 there is reference to certain points which you indicate 10 emerged from your interviews; is that correct?
11 A (Mangan) Yes.
12 Q And you join in those comments, is that correct, 13 Mr. Paolillo?
() 14 A (Paolillo) Yes, that's correct.
15 Q Now with reference to the first comment there that 16 involves bus companies who normally provide school bus
, 17 service, is that correct?
18 A (Mangan) Yes, it is.
19 MR. LEMALD: Your Honor, these paragraphs that --
20 well, this paragraph that Mr. Brock is referring to is a 21 subject of a motion that was pending the Board to strike the 22' conclusion. The opinion of the witness does not qualify it.
23 And it was our understanding that to the extent that the 24 motion wouldn't be allowed or it wasn't allowed that 25 something would be substituted instead.
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,-. j N_) MR. BROCK: Your Honor, 1
a 2 MR. LEWALD: In summation. And we have got no 3 summation.
4 If my memory is right this paragraph, 5 particularly, has been stricken from the testimony.
6 JUDGE SMITH: What paragraph do we have here now?
7 MR. LEWALD: From page 36, "And the following i 8 points have emerged from our interviews."
9 I believe that was -- the summary of the bus !
10 investigation was part of the area or part of the motion 11 that we had brought to strike because of the witnesses' lack 12 of competency to render these opinions.
13 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, as I understand the
) 14 Board's discussion on the point yesterday that with respect 15 to the comments indicating reasonable assurance that that 16 was not -- the Board did not feel the witnesses could
. 17 express a view as to that.
18 We agreed with that and will offer amended 19 testimony subject to acceptance by the adversary counsel 20 deleting that phrase.
21 This does not -- this meaning the paragraph on 22 page 36, number one, says nothing about that. It is, as I 23 understood the Board, simply a factual summary of what these 24 witnesses understood based upon their interviews.
25 I think it is simply factual recitation. We could
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f MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19398 m
1 go through company by company, Your Honor, but I think it's 2 just simply a summary.of fact.
3 MR. LENALD: This was on page five of the motion, 4 pages six to 38 entitled " Summary of Bus Company 5 Investigation." ..
6 JUDGE SMITH: This is not the opinion type of 7 testimony that we thought was in'your motion and was the i 8 subject- of our ruling. This does seem to be st raightforward' 9 investigator's summary of factual information gathered.
10 MS. CHAN: Your Honor, the Staff would like to 11 point to page 37, number four, the last two sentences it 12 says: "A prudent planner should not assume that all the 13 drivers being contacted during these hours."
l-() 14 And then, "Probably the number should be 15 discounted by at least 10 to 20 percent for this factual 16 alone."
. 17 JUDGE SMITH: Well, why didn't we go through this 18 yesterday. Why are we going through it now?
19 MR. BROCK: I don't understand this, Your Honor.
20 I've'made reference to one paragraph on page 36 of the 21 testimony, and as I understand the Board, this is a factual 22 recitation that I'm questioning on.
23 I mean, Ms. Chan is raising an issue on a 24 different piece of page on the testimony that wasn't even 25 discussed yesterday. ,
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO'-' REDIRECT 19399-lI 1~ JJUDGE SMITH: Your point of view may very well
'2 have merit, but why is.it before us right now?
3' MS. CHAN: Your Honor, it was our, at least my 1
4 understanding and I don't know if it's the Applicants. J i
5' understanding, that Mr. Brock was going tolgo through the P 6 testimony and delete those portions which represented the ]
=7 opinions of the witnesses on subjects that were -- I mean,
! [, - 8 other than summaries of factual information.
9 And since we didn't receive a marked up copy, I 10 just wanted to make sure that this wasn't coming just 11 because we didn't receive a copy. We don't know'what the 12 testimony is.
13 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, there was no general
) 14' agreement to go through the testimony.
15 JUDGE SMITH: All right.
16 We're just very unhappy with this. In.the first-
._ 17 place, our instructions yesterday were very explicit to you 18 to come up with a marked up copy and get the approval of the 19 other parties. That was part of it. You were to have done 20 that first thing this morning.
21 Now here we are approaching adjournment time and 22 we're back to where we were yesterday afternoon when they 23 first took the stand.
24 MR. BROCK: I apologize, Your Honor. We made up 25 copies but instead of them being lined out they were whited
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.O' 1 out i and therefore we needed to redo them. And I apologize-l 2 for the error. But'we did have copies here this morning, j 3- JUDGE SMITH: Well, you just didn't pay attention
'4 to our instructions.
5 MR. LEWALD: That was my' understanding, Your 6- .. H o n o r , that this whole section was subject to the motion., I 7 deliberately stayed away from it in cross-examination i 8 because of that.
9 MS. CHAN: Your Honor, that was the Staff's 10 1 understanding, also. Because there a number of statements 11 in there.for which the Staff could inquire as to the' basis,-
- 12 if we had not understood that it was excluded or were.to be 13 removed.
14 OUDGE SMITH: Well, page 37 isn't even on the 15 motion.
16 MR. LEWALD: It's 36 and 38 -- part of the motion
. 17 on page five.
18 JUDGE SMITH: So you don't think there has been an 19 understanding. Nothing has been arrived at.
20 I thought there was a meeting of the minds 21 yesterday; clearly there wasn't.
22 Let's take it up. Let's sit down and go back to 23- work. Take it up a point at a time.
24 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, I just point to the
- 25. transcript of yesterday 19249, and again as we understood,
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MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19401 T4 I k 1 it says, and I'm quoting the Board in the middle of the {
l l' 2 paragraph: "But I can tell you right now that when we 3 receive that into evidence," -- let me read the whole 4 statement.
5 " Summarize what you learned from your telephone l-L 6 conversation with these people. It's going to be a narrow I
l 7 area. It does summarize it. But I can tell you right now i 8 that when we receive that into evidence we will not give 9 their opinion as such any weight whatever, only that they 10 have the skill to summarize facts. But not lend any 11 additional force to their testimony based upon opinion."
12 JUDGE SMITH: -Yes.
13 MR. BROCK: We understood that as the Board's n
14 ruling. And I do apologize that we don't have the conformed
(_)
15 copy. As I say it was simply, you know, inadvertent that it 16 was whited-out and is not presently presentable.
-. 17 But the paragraph to which I am examining, Your j 18 Honor, I certainly understood that that was a straight 19 factual summary.
]
20 JUDGE SMITH: It's too late. We don't want to 21 bring them back, do we? Let's just go to work on it.
22 Starting with -- where does the dispute begin?
I 23 Where do you think -- we don't even know where this dispute 1
24 begins. There has been no meeting of the minds.
a 25 MS. CHAN: Your Honor, perhaps if we could take l
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1 1 our morning break the parties can sit down and work out
. 2 which parts could be jointly ag. ed to. ,
3
- JUDGE SMITH: I don't think you're going to be 4 able to.
5 MR. BROCK: We may be able to resolve at-least a- l 6 good portion, Your Honor.
7 MS. CHAN: And save some time.
', 8 JUDGE SMITH: All right, if you want to give it a 9 shot. You think it's worthwhile?
10 MR. BROCK: Yes.
11 JUDGE SMITH: All right, 15 minutes.
12 (Whereupon, a 15 minute recess was taken.)
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(~'Y 1 JUDGE SMITH: On the record.
p
. 2 MR. BROCK: Your Honor, I appreciate the Board's
'3 indulgence.
4 We have been able to resolve, I believe, the 5 remainder of the points in the motion. And as I understood
6 the Board's schedule, I guess we are towards the end of the 7 hearing time.
', 8 But before we leave today, I understand we have'an 9 agreement among counsel to have a completed marked up copy 10 and hopefully we can get that to the court reporter. Or if '
11 she's out the door before we finish up, then we will do that 12 first thing Tuesday morning.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Okay. Good.
(G _) 14 Is there any further cross-examination or direct 15 examination?
16 MR. BROCK: I expect there will be, Your Honor, 17 based on the testimony and at this point a meeting of the 18 minds. And I believe these witnesses would need to be back 19 on Tuesday.
20 MR. LEWALD: I don't know if the redirect is 21 finished.
22 MR. BROCK: I would still have some questions, 23 Your Honor.
24 JUDGE SMITH: Well, would you want to try to get 25 it done? We can stay here for another 20 minutes. Can you
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i7 L p MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19404 1 do that?
- 2 MR. LENALD: Your Honor, we have opened up a lot 3 of testimony that we are of the understanding was not in the 4 matter, and this can't be concluded at this point in 20 5 minutes. Maybe Tuesday morning it can be.
l l
6 JUDGE SMITH: I understand.
7 MR. LENALD: But it just'seems to open up an
, 8 entire new area.
9 JUDGE SMITH: I see. So there is nothing for us 10 to do this morning now? Nothing left for the Board this 11 morning?
12 MR. LEWALD: Well, nothing left for the Board for 13 the rest of ths day, I guess.
( 14 JUDGE SMITH: Right.
15 MS. CHAN: Matt, I believe there are some 16 questions on the summary part we were going to address to
. 17 the Board.
18 MR. BROCK: Okay. Which page am I?
19 MS. CHAN: Page 26.
20 MR. BROCK: All right. What questions are you 21 referring to?
22 MS. CHAN: The first response. We had discussed 23 about the conclusion that most of the bus driver companies 24 intend to honor their school contracts first.
25 MR. BROCK: All right.
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\- 1 MS. CHAN: 'That was an opinion and subject to --
-C 2 MR. BROCK: Okay,.and I understood the concern was !
3 that -- was the use of "most", is that right?
4 MS. CHAN: Because the testimony doesn't reflect 5 the same information. And if this.is a summary of the; 6 testimony, that we would have to conform it to the
.g 7 testimony. And if it was not part of the profiled testimony. ,
. 8 and it was only part of the survey forms, that we would have 9 to open that to cross-examination; is that correct?
10 MR. BROCK: I understand that any of the testimony.
11 is available to you and to Mr. Lewald for further cross-
'12 examination, if that's your concern.
13 MS. CHAN: It wasn't in the testimony. We just
() 14 want to find out, because you said the summary includes a 15 summary of investigations not set forth in the testimony.
16 MR. BROCK: Well, what is entitled on page 36,
.. 17 " Summary of Bus Company Investigation", as I understand it, 18 the witnesses have summarized their findings based upon 19 their memory, their notes, discussion, interaction with 20 counsel and have presented that. What is here as a summary 21 is their best understanding of the facts as presented.
1 22 And so that's being offered in that way, and I 23 understand that you want to cross that. I have no problem 24 with that.
\.
I 25 MS. CHAN: I just wanted to clarify that this 4
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_1 summary is a' summarization of more than just their written 1 1
' 2' testimony; is that correct?
3' JUDGE SMITH: As I understand it, it's a summary 4 of their' investigation.
5 MS. CHAN: All right.
JUDGE SMITH:
6 And'it may.not even be alluded to 7 earlier. It may or may not be' alluded to earlier in the
< i 8 testimony is the way I understand it.
9 MS. CHAN: Thank you.
10 MR. BROCK: That's correct, Your Honor.
11 JUDGE SMITH: It is strictly, however, a factual 12 summary. But for that understanding, then, what are you 13 going to do? Are you going to just accept it and cross-0 14 examine - it, er whae2 15 MS. CHAN: Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
16 MR. BROCK: And so if it's acceptable to the Board
- u. 17 then, we would have the panel back here Tuesday morning,.
l 18 because as indicated, I think they will have further cross L.
19 and that's probably the best way to proceed.
20 JUDGE SMITH: All right. Okay.
21 Anything further this morning then?
22 (No response.)
23 JUDGE SMITH: All right, we are adjourned then 24 until 9:00 a.m., Tuesday morning, whatever date that might l,
25 be. It's the 18th, April 18th.
f
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-j MANGAN, PAOLILLO - REDIRECT 19407:
- 1- (Whereupon, at 11:10 a.m. , the hearing was
- 2 recessed, to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., Tuesday, April 18,
'3 1989.)
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CERTIFICATE 4
.This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
. Name: Public Service ~ Company of New Hampshire, et al.
(Seabrook Station, Units 1 and 2)
- ~
Docket No: 50-443-OL 50-444-OL (Off-site Emergency Planning)
Place: Boston, Massachusetts Date: April 14, 1989 I
() were. held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken stenographically by me and,
- l. thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the
-transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
/S/
\ h '
(Signature typed) : Donna L. Cook Official Reporter l.8 Heritage Reporting Corporation
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's ) '
. NRC STAFF CROSS EXAMINATION PLAN FOR MAUREEN tiANGAN AND JOHN PAOLILLO ACTUAL AVAILABILITY OF THE SPMC'S MANNED VEHICLES AND DRIVERS
- 1. Determine the experience and training of the witnesses in emergency planning, logistj:s, transportglon management and human behavior.
- 2. Explore how the investigation was conducted.
A. How did callers identify themselves and the purpose of their investigation? How did respondents react to interrogation?
-Responses suggest that company officials might have felt intimidated by investigators.
B. How were the questions formulated? How were questions posed?
-Similarity of negative responses and inferences suggest that questions were slanted to illicit particular answers.
These similarities include reasons for company and driver participation, unwillingness of drivers to enter contaminated
,r g areas, timing of decision by drivers and EMT's on whether to
- ' '1 respond or enter a contaminated area, high driver turnover rate and suggestion that Applicant was only concerned with illiciting a commitment on paper and not whether transporta-tion resource was actually available.
- 3. Determine what efforts were made to locate bus companies and update information.
Marathon /Weybridge p. 25: Bay State Ambulance p.13
- 4. Determine basis for opinions concerning role abandonment, mechanical breakdown, bus driver absenteeism.
[ \
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