ML20210S862
| ML20210S862 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 09/26/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#486-1070 80-433-01-OL, 80-433-1-OL, LRP, OL-5, NUDOCS 8610080241 | |
| Download: ML20210S862 (625) | |
Text
OTG NAL UNnED STKrES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-322-oL-5 (EP Exercise)
(ASLBP No. 80-433-01-OL)
LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1) .
LIMITED APPEARANCE SESSION f
LOCATION: MINEOLA, NEW YORK PAGES: 16660 - 17283 DATE: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 1986 l
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ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Q Off:aal Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet 8610080241 860926 'ashington, D.C. 20001 PDR ADOCK 0500 2 (202) 347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERACE
l 16,660 a
.Sim 1-1 3
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
- 2 w} NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION}}$b 4 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 5 ---------------X 6 In the Matter of
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i 7 LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY : Docket No. 50-322-OL-5 (EP Exercise) { 8 (Shoreham Nuclear Power : (ASLBP No. 86-533-01-OL) I 9 Station, Unit 1) : 1
,, __-------------x 11 Executive Building Board Room
- j. 5th Floor.
l 12 No. 1 West Street j Mineola, New York 13 Friday, September 26, 1986
, W 14 The Limited Appearance Session commenced, 15-
~
pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m. 16 BEFORE: 4 ! 17 4 [ MORTON B. MARGULIES, Chairman The Atomic Safety and. Licensing Board 18
. g Nuclear Regulatory Commission ! 5 Washington, D.C. 20555 j 19 j JERRY R. KLINE, Member j 20 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board g Nuclear Regulatory Commission l 21 Washington, D.C. 20555 i
22 FREDERICK J. SHON, Member
- The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 23 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 24
- 25 i
?
16,661 Sim 1 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT PAGE N 2 MARY L. MENDELSON 16,965 , s 16,969 3- MADELINE G. FITZGIBBON 4 RICHARD KESSEL 16,971 5 -MITCHELL PALLEY 16,983 6 HAROLD KLEIN 16,988 7 THOMAS' CARROLL 16,990 8 ALICE'GETTEN 16,993 9 TONI LIEBERMAN 16,994 g 10 CAROL ROSENFELDT 16,996 i 11 DR. HOWARD KOENIG 16,999 12 MAURICE BARBASH 17,010 13 BARBARA PATON 17,015 14 ANGELO ORAZIO 17,020
- 15 JOHN W. MATTHEWS 17,021 16 CHARLENE SHERWIN 17,024 BOB STEIN 17,028 h 17 e
$ 18 GEORGE NICKLAND, M.D. 17,034 i
j j ig CAROL MELNICK 17,037 a
! l MAY NEWBERGER 17,039 20 i
3 ) d JOHN PARSILLICO 17,045 21 3 1 - r - PAUL HARENBERG 17,057 22 23 WALTER PIETSCH 17,060 i HON. THOMAS DOWNEY 17,062 24 CAROL BERMAN 17,065 25
16,662 Sim 1-3 .1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT: PAGE 2 THOMAS DENAPOLI- 17,069 3 JEFF NEWMAN 17,072 4 SHERRY TRAINER 17,076 5 CHRIS PEZZULLO 17,079 6 DORTHET VUNK 17,083 7 RENE MANE 17,085 8 SUSAN BLAKE 17,088 g YETTA DOBER 17,092 10 MS. SANFORD GUISE
- 17,093 11 KAREN FRANCHINO 17,102 12 HOWARD REEF 17,103 13 JACK LAURENCE 17,108 14 BONNIE FUERSTEIN 17,110 15 SARAH HOLLY 17,116
.16 ANTHONY ROSSI 17,118 h 17 SHARON SEGALL 17,120 e ; 18 GARY KIRKENDALL 17,124 j 19 DR. SHENA SHACKNER 17,133 20 PATRICK G. HALPIN 17,136 a
d 21 DR. LEONORA BROADNWIU 17,141 i 22 HUGO GIONATTI ' 17,144 23 DR. JEAN CHRISTIE 17,147 LYMAN VUNK 17,151 24 25 LEE KLINGER LESSER .17,152 )
16,663 Sim 1-3 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT PAGE 2 JOANNE E. KEMNITZER. 17,153 3 MARGAREE MALCOMENIAN 17,155 4 BONNIE FEURSTEIN 17,157 5 ROBERT SANQUIST 17,158 6 BILL STILLWAGON 17,160 7 THOMAS KELLY- 17,167 8 THOMAS M. KIRCHMER 17,171 9 MARY ELLEN CRAY 17,173 10 11 12 13 14
~ 15 16 ! 17 2
b 18 i j 19 i 2o 21 1 22 l 23 I 24 25
16,964 1-1-gjw r 1 (9:32 a.m.) ( ) 2 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Please come to order. Good 4 morning ladies and gentlemen. 5 The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6, on June 6, 1986, instituted this proceeding to consider 7 evidence on the Federal Emergency Management Agency's 8! exercise of the Long Island Lighting Company's emergency l 9 plan for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station as to whether 10 it shows fundamental flaws in the LILCO emergency plan. 11 The exercise was conducted on February 13, 1986. i 12 i The Board assigned to hear this matter is composed of Judge 13 Jerry R. Kline , sitting on my right, Judge Frederick J. I 14 ! Shon, sitting on my left, and I am Judge Morton B. 15 Margulies, the Chairnan. 16 ' Parties to the proceeding are the Long Island 17l Lighting Company, the Applicant; the Nuclear Regulatory 18 ! Commission's Staff; and the Interveners who oppose the 19 Application, the State of New York, the County of Suffolk, 20 New York, and the Town of Southampton, New York. 21 the issued to be litigated have not as yet been 22 ruled upon. The matter is presently under consideration. 23 We are conducting a limited appearance session
# 24 Aw Federal Reporters, Inc, here today, pursuant to Section 2.715-A of Part 50 of the 25 Code of Federal Regulations.
1-2-gjw 16,965 1 This permits persons not a party to make a 2 limited appearance by making an oral or written statement 3 of their position. 4 The statements made by persons not party to the 5 proceeding are not evidence. The appearances can alert the 6 Board and the parties to areas in which evidence may need to 7 be adduced. 8 In order to accommodate as many persons as 9 possible, it is customary to limit all presentations to 10 five minutes each. Written statements, which are placed 11 in the record, and not limited as to length. 12 i Our leadoff speaker this morning is Congressman 8 i i 13 j Mrazek. 14 i LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF l 16 ! MARY L. MENDELSON 17 l MS. MENDELSON: Good morning. I am not Congressman 18 Mrazek. I am about eleven inches shorter than he. The House 19 is in Session today, and he is in Washington. 20 I have a statement from him. My name is Mary L. 21 Menduluun. I ditt his Diulrict Director. I can read it or 22 I can submit it, whichever you prefer. 23 JUDGE MARGULIES: Would you please read it? 9 24 Ac Jodcral Reporters, Inc. 25 bG . MENDELSON: Certainly. Thank you. Statement of Robert J. Mrazek, 3rd Congressional District, New York:
16,966 1-3-gjw
-, 1 I believe we must keep certain realities in mind. '~
2 I continue to believe that without the participation of 3 State and County officials, it was pointless to conduct 4 an exercise that both the Courts and the related Federal 5 agencies had said would be of limited value, to say nothing 6 of a waste of taxpayers dollars. 7 Further, I continue to believe that the Federal 8 Government should not, as it did in this case , supersede 9 a decision may by duly elected local officials. In addition, 10 the events surrounding the forced resignation of FEMA's 11 regional administrator, Frank Petrone, over the emergency l 12 ! evacuation plan for Long Island, led me to believe that 8 I 13 l the ultimate concern of the NRC is to license Shoreham
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li d whether or not it can guarantee the health and safety of 14 ] 15 h l nearby residents, i 16 ! Representative Tom Downy and I asked the House i 17 l Energy Subcommittee to convene hearings to explore fully 18 FEMA's handling of the test and the publication o.f its 19 results. 20 At the April 22nd hearing, it was learned that 21 Mr. Petrone stated in a draf t report that no reasonable 22 assurances could be given that the health and safety of the 23 public could be protected, because the test took place l l 9 24 I As.-FKleral Reporters inc. without the participation of the local emergency response l l 25 organization, the State and County officials. 1 i
1-4-gjw 16,967 m 1 I sincerely regret that Mr. Petrone served as a i
'~ scapegoat just for doing his job, for trying to guarantee 2
3 the health and safety of the residents of Long Island. 4 Truly, this is seen as the primary reponsibility, a responsibility it would to relinquish to the NRC. Asking 5 6 the chief administrator to delete the most crucial statement 7 on safety from the post-exercise critique was at best 8 irresponsible on FEMA's part. 9 According to Julius Beckton, Director of FEMA, 10 who also testified the NRC and FEMA had agreed that there would be no determination on the adequacy of offsite 11 f 12 preparedness at Shoreham, and that they would simply discuss 13 the exercise. 14 u In this case, Mr. Petrone felt he could not l 15 1 guarantee that this plan would work in the event of a real 16 e me rgency . When human lives are at stake, my feeling is 17 ! that definite conclusions must be made and questions must i 18 be asked. 19 Just this week, Newsday published the results of 20 its latest poll on the emergency evacuation plan, and stated 21 that sixty-two percent of the residents in the proximity of 22 , the plant would flee their homes regardless of assurances 23 from LILCO on safety. 24 I am afraid that we have reached a new stage
- Fderal Reporters, Inc.
A 25 in the licensing process. The pressure on Mr. Petrone
16,968 1-5-gjw .m j illustrates that the intention of the NRC is to license 2 the Shoreham plant regardless of the consequences to the 3 residents of Long Island. 4 No reactor anywhere in the United States should 5 be given a license to operate unless or until an effective 6 emergency evacuation plan has been adopted, with the full 7 and complete support of the local government. In the af termath of the Chernobyl disaster, we 3 9 ! should be even more responsive to the hazards and 10 ! possibilities for human error when dealing with nuclear i 11 power plants. Until there is conclusive evidence that the 12 l plant is safe, and the residents surrounding it can be 13 evacuated promptly, I will continue to oppose the opening i I y of Shoreham. 15 l Thank you. 16 ' JUDGE MARGULIES: Madeline G. Fitzgibbon? 17 18 l 19 ] 20 21 22 i l 23 0..~ .., e.,,,, .~.,2s l 25
16,969 l-6-gjw LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF 2 MADELINE G. FITZGIBBON 3 MS. FITZGIBBON: Good morning, gentlemen. My ] 4 am is Madeline Fitzgibbon and I am a Republican candidate ! 5 i for the State Assembly in the lith District, which includes , 6 Amityville, Copiague, Lindenhurst, Wyandanch, and parts of s 7 West Babylon, in Suffolk County. l I am also here as a parent, as a homeowner, and 1 9 as a concerned citizen, and I am here to request and emplore 10 11 y u to reject LILCO's so-called emergency plan for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station. , f (~h You cannot allow yourselves to be swayed by (j l LILCO's attempt to sidestep the only real authority that g
; j you must deal with in the licensing procedure, and in the i 15 i l
area of emergency planning, and that is the government of l g 1 Suffolk County. The men and women who were duly elected by the people who live and work here. ! 39 i When LILCO conducted its evacuation drill last i February, it assumed that public officials, despite their 20 statements to the contrary, would participate in the event 21 l that there is a real emergency at Shoreham. f They call this their realism argument. Well, their h I a spy, it is pure fantasy. l l i i
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16,970 1-7-gjw.
. 1 Anyone who lives here and works on Long Island 2 knows that our roads are already overburdened, and they 3 know how difficult it is to get to and from work, to even 4 do things during the middle of the day when the roads should 5
l be a little bit less congested. 6 This is the realism argument that we live with 7[ here on Long Island when we try to go about our daily [ 8 business. 9 I was always raised to play by the rules. Your 10 rules say that a license cannot be issued unless the it il locality develops a plan for safe evacuation. Suffolk 12 !. County of ficials have determined that there can be no 8 13 I safe evacuation of the people around that plant. 14 The Governor of the State of New York knows this, 15 the people who live and work here in Suffolk County know 16 this. Only LILCO seems not to know that reality. 17 : Well, I am asking you today, gentlemen, to play i 18 I! by the rules. Your rules. Please to not allow the Shoreham d 19 P plant to open. I 20 Thank you very much. 21 (Applause.) 22 JUDGE MARGULIES: Richard Kessel? 23 lI A. c.or,e a non.,i, 24 ( inc. I 25
16,971 1-8-gjw
-__ 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
('~ ) 2 OF 3 RICHARD KESSEL 4 MR. KESSEL: Good morning. I am Richard N. 5 Kessel. I am 'the Executive Director of the New York State 6 Consumer Protection Board. I am also a resident of Long i 7 Island. I live in Belmore, and I am here today testifying 8 on behalf of Governor Mario Cuomo, as well as on behalf of 9 New York State. 10 The State of New York is totally opposed to the i II licensing of Shoreham. The Governor's overriding concern 12 ! is the health and safety of Long Islanders.
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l 13 Anyone who is familiar with Long Island, or indeed i 14 anyone just looking at a map, can readily see that it would i 15 j be impossible to safely evacuate the area surrounding i 16 Shoreham in the event of an accident at the plant. n 17 h In fact, Donald Regan, the White House Chief of 18 l Staf f, has stated that there would be no way to get people 19 ' off of Long Island if an accident occurred at Shoreham. 20 His solution is to build a bridge across Long 21 ; Island Sound to Connecticut. Such a preposterous suggestion I 22 ; is concrete evidence that even the White House, even the 23 White House, acknowledges the impossibility of a safe and
- 24 l A rederal Heporters, Inc.
25 efficient ovacuation of Long Island. Governor Cuomo's concern about the lack of a
16,972 1-9-gjw I workable Shoreham evacuation plan should not be taken lightly. / v 2 The Chernobyl accident in the Soviet Union has 3 showed us that nuclear power plant accidents are possible, 4 and that their effects can be catastrophic. 5 A workable emergency plan is absolutely essential 6, to protect public safety. Af ter extensive and costly i 7 studies, analyses, surveys, and public hearings, the Suffolk County Government concluded that the public could not be 8l i 9l safely evacuated, or otherwise protected if there were a 10 serious accident at the Shoreham plant. II In an emergency, the State would act consistently, i 12 Where a local government and in concern with the County. I3 in this State judges that it would not rely in an emergency i l I4 upon a particular entity, such as LILCO, and provides 15 l reasonable bases, such as those contained in the Suffolk County Executive Statement, New York State could not l I7 ! responsibly second guess the local government's judgment. I8 But even setting aside Suf folk County's I9 determination, New York State could not responsibly act i 20 l in concert with LILCO during a radiological emergency. I 21 l Indeed, the established position of the State is i 22 ' that LILCO's emergency plan is unworkable. The State, l 23; the re fore , could not in an emergency choose to rely upon i
- ederal Reporters, theInc.
veryi24 h plan that it has found to be totally without merit, i 25 Moreover, throughout the Shoreham project, LILCO I 1
16,973 1-10-gjw 7-I has demonstrated poor judgment with respect to matters 2 involving the Shoreham plant. 3 The decision to press ahead with licensing Shoreham, 4l in the fact of the determinations of Suf folk County and i New York State , that they would not adopt or implement any 5f 6 emergency plan, is in itself an example. 7: , Similarly, the finding of the New York State 8i Public Service Commission, not normally known as a friend i 9i of the consumers here on Long Island, that LILCO's management i 10 ! of the Shoreham plant was imprudent in the amount of at least Il one point four billion dollars, is more evidence of LILCO's 12 '. poor judgment. 13 And let me remind you that today is a significant i 14 ' day, in fact, in the history of Long Island, because today 15 LILCO began making preparations one year ago for ilurricane 16 Gloria. 17 i And as we all know, LILCO's response to llurricane 18 l Gloria one year ago shows that in one recent test where 19 LILCO faced a real emergency, the Company's actions were 20 inadequate. 21 In short, there is no basis for New York State, 22 or indeed the public, to have confidence in LILCO's judgment 23 or capabilities in an emergency.
- 24 Aw rederal fleporters, Inc.
25 Given this, New York Stato could not, and would not, rely upon LILCO or its emergency plan, or its advice, in the l
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^- I event of a radiological emergency at Shoreham.
RJ 2 Nonetheless, LILCO persists in trying toj icense 3 Shoreham, and is now illustrating the biggest deception of 4 all. 5 Even though the New York State Supreme Court, 6 and your own Regulatory Commission Licensing and Appeals 7 Board has ruled that LILCO cannot implement its emergency 8 plan, the NRC , at LILCO's urging, is considering LILCO's 9 request to license Shoreham now. 10 LILCO has repeatedly suggested that during an II l emergency, Governor Cuomo would suspend New York laws to 12 implement the Company's emergency plan, the so-called realism 13 argument. Id ! Governor Cuomo could not lawfully delegate to j 15 l LILCO police powers to implement emergency plans. Even if i 16 he could, he could not conceive of taking this exraordinary 17 measure of suspending the laws of New York State in order 18 to permit LILCO, a company in which the State has absolutely 19 no confidence, to implement a plan which New York State 20 believes is totally without merit. 2I Whatever the Governor would do at the moment of 22 an emergency would be for the public good. LILCO's plan 23; does not serve the public good, and the Governor would not
- 24 Awf edef al Heporters, Inc.
facilitate its implementation. 25 New York State will not abdicato its responsibility
1-12-gjw 16,975
% 1 to protect the health and safety of Long Islanders. We will l
2 not allow the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, nor the Reagan 3 Administration, or anyone else to shove Shoreham down our 4 throats. 5 We will continue to oppose Shoreham in every forum 6 tha t we can . 7l Not only is the LILCO evacuation plan illegal, it i 8! is completely unworkable. In fact, it is a mistake to call O9 LILCO's proposal a plan. LILCO is basically saying let us 10 operate Shoreham, and if there is an accident we will figure II out what to do. 12 Lack of planning is evident on the face of LILCO's 13 ] proposal. For e mmple, after Nassau County determined that C 14 '! the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum would not be used in t 15 the Shoreham evacuation plan, LILCO claimed that the Red 16 l Cross would provide alternative congregate centers for 17jl people fleeing affected areas. 18 { lloweve r, the Red Cross has indicated that no such 19 congregate case areas would be available. l 20 Further, LILCO has suggested most recently in fact, 21 , as last week, in lieu of the Nassau Coliseum withdrawing from 22 their plan, that it would be able to provide monitoring and 23Il g decontamination facilities at its customer service offices i 24 j in flicksville, Roslyn, and my home down on Dunmore. A aierat Reporters, Inc ,! 25 { This notion is absurd. Particularly since LILCO
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- 1 in its own exercise estimated that some one hundred thousand
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2 persons would require such monitoring and dccontamination 3 in the event of an accident at Shoreham.
4 I happen to live several blocks away from the 5l LILCO Delmore relocation center. There is no way, no way I 6 LILCO can accommodate thirty thousand, or forty thousand i 7l people in that parking lot, let alone decontaminate 8' evacuees with showers housed in one trailer. 9f My God, there aren't even forty five thousand 10 l people living in all of Delmore, let alone being able to 11 fit thirty to forty thousand people at that facility. 12 ; Moveover, LILCO's estimate of one hundred thousand 13 . evacuees in the event of a Shoreham accident is a gross 14 unde rs tatement . In reality, the number of evacuees in our i 15 l opinion would be approximately one point six million 16 Long Islanders, and that is based on a poll just taken, i l 17 published last Sunday, September 21st, in our ownoLong 18 Island newspaper, Newsday, which indicates that sixty-two 19 ' percent of Long Islanders would leave their homes in the 20 ' event of a Shoreham accident. l . 21l And let me tell you, that as a resident of lielmore, 1 22 many of my neighbors would be among those people fleeing an i 1 23 accident. 24 And what will LILCO do with those people that
#cJers' Firporters, A.
Ir a 25 - have to be decontaminated? The Company said that they would
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1 16,977 1-14-gjw ask them to surrender their clothes, and in their place put l <( on paper suits. \) Imagine surrendering your clothes to LILCO. 3 But that is as far as the LILCO plan goes. Where 4 do those people then go with their paper suits? Apparently 5 LILCO's plan assumes that a Shoreham accident can only happen 6 i in the summer, just like with the Nassau Coliseum, it could 71 b only happen if there weren't an Islander game occurring. 8l Would But what about an accident in January? 9 LILCO then send people out into the cold wearing paper 10 suits? How ridiculous. 11 l ! The basic basic flaws of LILCO's evacuation plan 12 ! cannot be obscured by the sham drill, such as the one held i this past February 13th, and a make-believe simulation of 14 '; j LILCO's plan cannot be viewed as having shown how people 15 .i , would behave under realistic circumstances. 16 3 Indeed, the very notion of LILCO supervising a 17 : t large scale evacuation is frightening, as well as absurd. Public health is essential for such an endeavor. It is 19 1 clear the public on Long Island does not trust LILCO. 20 ' This is confirmed by last Sunday's Newsday poll, 21 which shows that sixty-two percent of Long Islanders would ignore assurances from LILCO and leave their homes in the 23 event of an accident at the plant. 24 I) 9n FrJeest Resorters, Inc. EVen sixty-three percent of Nassau residents, those 25 furtherest from the plant, would flee.
1-15-gjw 16,978 ,A 1 LILCO could not possibly cover such a situation. 2 Under the most favorable weather conditions, a safe evacuation 3 would be impossible because of our area's unique geographic 4 configuration. 5 Imagine what would happen here on Long Island if 6 sixty-two percent of all Long Islanders, that is one point 7 six million people, attempted to flee in panic following an 8 accident at Shoreham. 9 LILCO's notion that it could take over Governmental l 10 j functions and impose public order u nder those circumstances II I is preposterous. 12 LILCO's track record in non-nuclear emergencies 13 ! does not inspire public confidence. The Company's management i 14 has typically performed abysmally. It has been willing to 15 allow the quality of service to deteriorate, and has risked 16 ' power brownouts and blackouts, and it hon brought the Company i 17 i to the brink of bankruptcy in obsessive jursuit of single-
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18 minded objective; the licensing of Shorehts., 19 ! As I noted earlier, LILCO's management of Shoreham l 20 i has boon so poor that the Public Service Commission imposed 21 an unpreceded one point 'four billion dollar imprudency I 22 : penalty on the Company, i 23 , And, let's get back to one year ago today. For
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AwFederal Remtters, Inc. 25 today is, in fact, the anniversary of the beginning of llurricane Gloria. Let us not forget LILCO's dismal
16,979 1-16 -JoeWn]! .f I performance one year ago in that Hurricane Gloria emergency. v 2 Despite past experience with major storms, LILCO 3 was woefully unprepared for Hurricane Gloria. Its overhead 4 distribution system was especially vulnerable to storm 5 damage because LILCO had reduced expenditures on preventive 6 maintenance to finance the Shoreham gambit. 7 And once the hurricane struck, LILCO was particularly 8 unsuccessful in communicating with its customers. LILCO 9 failed to provide information as to when power would be 10 restored to specific areas. II As a result, customers were unable to make informed 12 decisions about staying or leaving their homes, buying 13 , perishable food, and saving their lives in general, and I . this went on for over eleven days. 14 ) . I l 15 Would that time be available in a nuclear 16 cmcrgency? I doubt it. 17 LILCO's f ailure to communicate ef fectively with its g 18 customers is compounded by the Company's policy of with-i 19 ' holding vital information from New York State and the public. 20 LILCO has been especially secretive about Shoreham. 21 I underscore this by explaining to you a recent 22 incident. Last Friday, New York State asked the Long Island 23 Lighting Company to provide a June 1986 audit report on the f 24 training and qualifications of Shoreham radio chemistry and A Feotral fleporters, Inc. 25 other personnel.
16,980 1-17-gjw 73 1 The audit report was done by LILCO in the spring
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('" 2 and summer, and we only found out about it because it was 3 contained in a Nuclear Regulatory Commission Report. 4 Now, this was af ter LILCO, on August 21st, refused 5 to provide a copy of the report to my agency. 6 The report in question contained forty-five audit 7 observations, and nineteen audit findings, which are unusually 8 high numbers, especially since LILCO's performance in its 9 radio chemistry area supposed had improved since March 1986. l 10 In fact, as of this moment LILCO continues to refuse
' Il to produce this recent audit, despite the fact that the State i
12 of New York has the right to be informed of all conditions f 13 , both positive and negative, concerning nuclear power plants ' H I44 within its borders. 15 Shoreham is no exception. In fact, we certainly would i 16 ] request that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission order LILCO 17 l to produce that audit not only to the State of New York and 18 I to Suffolk County and the public and the parties, but so the 19 Nuclear Regulatory Commission itself could see what is in that 20 audit. What is in that audit that produces thirty-five 21 observations and nineteen findings. 22 l What is LILCO trying to hide. Its actions today 23 surely indicate that the report is unfavorable. If the 24 report were f avorable, or even neutral, why would LILCO
#m FcJeest Rem 2rters, Inc, E try to withhold it?
16,981 1-19 -g jw m 1 This situation raises the question of whether 2 LILCO will withhold important safety-related information 3 from New York State and the public in the event of a serious 4 problem at Shoreham. Half of New York State and the public 5 in general trust LILCO to provide accurate and timely information about Shoreham in the event of an emergency. If 6 l 7 LILCO refuses to provide something as simply as an audit repor t on the training and qualifications of1Shoreham personnel. 8f 9 LILCO's efforts to license Shoreham at any cost 1 10 f is especially gregarious since the plant is not needed to 11 ! i mlut Long Island's demand for electricity, and will be highly uneconomic in any event. 12 f 13 l Even with the booking economy on Long Island, both 14 the consumer protection board and the New York State Energy 15 Of fice have concluded that adequate power will be available a 16 ! into the 1990's without Shoreham. 17 , In the 1990's there will be substantial excess 18 ; capacity available elsewhere in the State, and thanks to 19 Governor Cuomo, that excess capacity will be wheeled down f 20 to Long Island through a new transmission line under Long 21 Island Sound that will be build by the New York Power 22 l , Authority. And the marshy south line will also of fer 23l - Long Island ability to import power for decades to come. 24 l Under these circumstances, it is more economical A
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25 to abandon Shoreham now rather than to let it operate.
16,982 1-20-gjw 7~ , 1 Our analysis prepared even before this year's
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2 declining oil prices, shows that abandoning Shoreham will 3 save ratepayers at least three hundred million dollars. 4 Unfortunately, LILCO refuses to ' face reality 5 and abandom the Shoreham plant. It persists with its 6 efforts to license Shoreham despite the unacceptable risks 7 to health and safety to Long Islanders, and it is a fact 8 that the plant is unnecessary and highly uneconomical. 9 Governor Cuomo will not allow LILCO to succeed 10 , in this plainly unreasonable venture, and threat to public i II l safety. It is New York State's right and responsibility i 12 : to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our residents. 13 We will not abdicate this responsibility to LILCO, O la l nor will we allow the NRC or the Reagan Administration to i 15 L impose the dangers of Shoreham on Long Islanders, t 16 Governor Cuomo stands firm in his determination 17 l to assure that Shoreham is not licensed. We will continue 18 this fight until Shoreham is finally abandoned. Whether 19 it be before the NRC, or the Courts, or the Congress, or 20 the White House, whatever it takes, Governor Cuomo will do 21 everything within his power to stop Shoreham from ever being I 22 i licensed. 23 Tha rk you very much.
# 24 AwrcJeral Reporters, Inc.
25 (Applause.) JUDGE MARGUILES: Mitchell Palley?
1 g jw 16,983
,_ 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s -
3 MITCHELL PALLEY 4 MR. PALLEY: Thank you. Good morning, and welcome 5 to Long Island. My name is Mitchell Palley, and I am Director 6 of Legislative and Economic Affairs for the Long Island 7 Association, the regions largest business and civic organi-aj zation, representing over twenty-nine hundred employers, 9 consiating of over four hundred thousand employees. 10 The Long Island Association greatly appreciates 11 ! the opportunity to testify today before the Atomic Safety 12 ! and Licensing Board of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 13 regarding the future of the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 14 As all of us on Long. Island are painfully aware, d 15l the controversy concerning the operation of the Shoreham 16 Nuclear Power Plant has gone on for almost fifteen years, 17 ; and has now entered its most critical phase. These hearings 18 are an example of how far, or how near, the procedural 19 aspects of making a decision on the operation of the nuclear 20 power plant have become. 21 After almost fifteen years of planning, financing, l 22 i construction, regulation, errors in judgment in design, 23 changes in regulations, Three Mile Island, more changes 24 ' in regulations, errors in construction, Chernobyl, emergency A 9-f ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 evacuation plan, and low power testing, the end of the line
16,984 L-22-gjw r 1 may at last be near. A decision on whether or not to allow J 2 the Shoreham nuclear power plant to open is, perhaps, within 3 view. Whether the decision is yes or no., at least the 4 decision may be near. 5 The issue of whether or not the Shoreham Nuclear 6 Power Plant should open has completely overshadowed all 7 other energy issues on Long Island, to the point where the 8 entire energy issue seems to be dependent on Shoreham, and 9 the inaction which has resulted has led all of us to the 10 ' delimma facing Long Island today. Il The Long Island community has become the victim of l 12 forces that go beyond that of the energy situation on Long 8 13 Island. Depending on who one talks to, Long Island does 14 not have enough electric power to continue its economic 15 expansion until the completion of the Long Island Sound 16 Crossing Line in 1992. Long Island is still faced with 17 l brownouts or blackouts at any moment, or next summer, or I 18 every summer until 1992. 19 Long Island should buy more power from Con Edison, 20 or less power from Con Edison. Long Island should move 21 to coal-fired plants, or nuclear power plants, -or no plants 22 at all. 23 Long Island will receive a substantial amount of 24 hydropower f rom upstate or Canada, or not hydropower from MFederal Reporters, Inc. 25 upstate or Canada, or some amount inbetween.
1-23-gjw 16,985 rs 1 The questions are endless, the discussion is (. '~# 2 endless, and the tactics are endless, and all the while 3 the Long Island community teethers on the edge of disaster 4 or not, depending on who one talks to. 5 This is no way to run an island, or a state, or 6 a nation. 7 The Long Island Association is deeply concerned 8 over the seemingly endless process and the failure to resolve 9 an issue which has been a major concern to our members for 10 many years. Long Island is in the midst of a continued 11 economic prosperity. A prosperity which has continued to i 12 l grow at a rate far exceeding State and Federal levels. 8 13 j This has resulted in a continuing increase in the f number of businesses which have started on the Island, and la d 15 an increase in expansion ef forts by many of our existing 16 ! businesses. 17 Thus far, this economic prosperity has managed j 18 l to continue with the addition of any major new power plant 19 on Long Island, or the addition of any major amount of 20 ' imported power from of f the island in the past ten years. 21 While the New York State Power Authority has l 22 ll started to send small vmounts of power to' Long Island 23 from the municipal corporations formed by Nassau and 24 i Suffolk Counties, the amount available is limited by both A 9-rederal Reporters, Inc. 25 the availability of power from upstate 7 and the capacity of
16,986 1-24-gjw ,~ 1 the transmission lines necessary to carry the power. 2 Long Island is an island, not only in name, but in 3 the ability of both its people and its electrical supply to 4 move on and off the geographic boundaries of the area. 5 In addition to our bridges being fulled to capacity, 6 our transmission lines are restricted so that no additional i 7 power can come to Long Island until at least 1992 with the 8 completion of the Long Island Sound Line. 9 We are deeply concerned that while the Sound crossin'g 10 , was significant, we imporove our situation, other actions 11 are necessary to ensure a reliable energy supply between now 12 l and 1992. 13 Our member companies must be assured that the energy o la supply will be adequate to meet their energy needs. They l are fearful that load management actions could result in 15 h l 16 l cutbacks of power just when many new companies and expansion U projects will be coming on line for the first time. 17 ] 18 l Unfortunately, none of these other actions are 19 being discussed, while the issue of Shoreham continues to 20 dominate the energy field on Long Island. While the 21 controversy continues, neither the long or short term I l 22 ! questions of generating capacity, or alternative sources 4 1 23 of energy for Long Island are being addressed. 24 Each month of delay adds forty to fif ty million
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A 25 in additional costs to the plant, which the ratepayers will
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- I bear in one way or another here on Long Island, without
( ) wJ 2 any corresponding energy benefit being produced. 3 We are in the midst of a procedural infinity. 4 Surely , after all this time, enough information has been 5 received to enable the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 6 reach a decision on whether Shoreham should open or not. 7 The Long Island Association is deeply concerned 8 that a final resolution of this controversy may be delayed 9 indefinitely to the great detriment or our region. 10 All we ask is that a final decision be reached 11 as quickly as possible, whatever that decision happens to 12 ! me. 13 If the plant is to be licensed or not to be 14 licensed, Long Island needs to know so that we may get on 15 I with the consequences of whatever the decision is. All we 16 i ask is that the NRC conclude its work in a timely fashion. 17 l Surely, that is not an unreasonable request. 18 l Thank you very much. 19 ' JUDGE MARGULIES: Harold Klein? 20 21 i 22 l-23 8 74 A-rederal Reporters, Inc. 25
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,_ 1 LIMITED APPERANCE STATEMENT
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2 OF 3 HAROLD KLEIN 4 MR. KLEIN: Good morning. My name is Harold Klein, 5 and I represent the Standard Bred Owners Association, an 6 organization composed of horse owners, of harness horses, if 7 you will, that raise at Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway. 8 Our twenty-two hundred members own approximately 9 thirty-six hundred horses, worth about seventy ndllion 10 dollars, 11 Roosevelt Raceway is right in the center of Nassau 12 County,.within five or six miles of this building, but what 13 I want to tell you is that when the evacuation starts , if 14 and when, LILCO may tell everybody to stay put in Nassau 15 l so they can get the people from Suffolk out, but horse owners w l 16 1 are not going to stay put. The value of these horses is i such that there will be convoys of horse vans moving into 17 l 18 this traffic stream and blocking it up. 19 They will find it imperative to get their horses 20 to a safe area. We know in the Chernobyl disaster, cattle 21 four hundred and fifty miles from the plant were paralyzed 22 and had to be destroyed. There were people in Scotland that 23 had animals that had to be destroyed. 24 These people that own these horses at Roosevelt 8 ;ral Reporters, Au rct trw. 25 Raceway are going to get them out, whether they are told not ! l l l i
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- I to or whatever they are told by LILCO, because their trust i
2 in LILCO is non-existent. 3 I just want to sayi that anybody that has been in 4 this area where there is a sale in Fortunenots knows what 5 gridlock is,iand we are right next to fortunenots, and I 6 assure you there _ will be no way of getting the people from 7 Suf folk through Nassau County when the people in Nassau 8 County and the horseowners panic and try to leave. 9 This is my area of expertise, and I don ' t want 10 to go into any more. I am sure you have heard it all already, i 11 l but I assure you there is no way to get through Nassau 4 l 12 ! County in an emergency. 13 Thank you. 14 ' (Applause.) I IS JUDGE MARGULIES: Thomas Carroll? l 16 ! i 17 l 18 19 ' 20 21 22 23 , t 24 A. -E80 erst Reporters, Inc. 25 l
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I LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s v 2 op 3 TIIOMAS CARROLL 4 JUDGE MARGULIES: We welcome you back, Mr. Carroll. 5 We didn't have the opportunity to hear you previously, but 6 we do welcome you back today. 7 MR. CARROLL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and 8 honorable members of the licensing panel. 9 My name is Thomas Carroll. I am counsel to the 10 Nassau County Board of Supervisors, and I am appearing before i Il ! you today at the request of the members of the Board to explain 12 f the Board's action concerning the use of county facilities 13 l in the evacuation plan proposed by the Long Island Lighting i 14l Company. O 15 i The Board of Supervisors understands that the l 16 1, Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum has previously been 17 l considered to be a part of LILCO's emergency plan, and that 18 this facility was part of the February 13th exercise. 19 It is also the understanding of the Board that 20 the instant licensing proceeding has, or will, consider 21 the results of that exercise. 22 Under the circumstances, it is important that there 23 be no confusion or misunderstanding concerning the use of 8 24 Aca-Federai Aeporters, Inc. any county facilities as an evacuation center for LILCO. 25 There is no existing agreement between the County l
1-29-gjw 16,991 e 1 of Nassau and the Long Island Lighting Company concerning the i
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2 use of the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, or any other 3 county facility as an evacuation center in any emergency 4 plan of LILCO. 5 On June 16 th 19 86, the Board of Supervisors enacted 6 resolution 782-1986, and 782-B-19 86, concerning the use of 7 county facilities, including the Nassau Veterans Memorial 8 Coliseum in LILCO's evacuation plan. 9 The resolution, insofar as pertinent, states: 10 Resolved, that the purported designation of the Nassau 11 Veterans Memorial Coliseum by the Long Island Lighting 12 Company as a nuclear disaster evacuation center be and the 13 same is hereby declared a nullity, contrary to law, and 14 void. 15 Resolved, that no Nassau County facility, including 16 the Nassau Veterans Memoriam Coliseum are, or will be 17 available for the use by the Long Island Lighting Company 18 or by the Facility Management Corporation of New York, Inc., 19 as part of the Long Island Lighting Company's emergency 20 plan, unless prior approval by resolution is first obtained l 21 from the Nassau County Board of Suervisor's. l l 22 The language of the resolution set forths the 23 position of the Board of Supervisors, which is that no 24 County facility is or will be available for use in LILCO' Ate +SOff 51 M epOff ert, Inc. 25 emergency plan unless the Board of Supervisors authorizes
16,992 1-30gjw I such use. /-
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2 It is also the position of the Board of Supervisors 3 based on the opinion of the county attorney, that by law 4 only the Board of Supervisors and the County Executive are 5 authorized to utilize county personnel, and that no private 6, utility, including LILCO, can utilize county personnel in 7' an evacuation plan. 8 I appreciate your time and consideration of my 9 comments on behalf of the Board of Supervisors. 10 f Thank you very much. i II ! (Applause.) 12 j JUDGE MARGULIES: For those of you who may be 8 13 ! l unaware, we do have a sign-up book on the table in the U 14 i lef thand corner, or to my lef t, for those of you who may 15 wish to make a five minute statement before us. 16 l Alice Getten? 17 l 18 19 ! l 20 21 i 22 l i 23! ii l . _ . , _ ... . *,s l 25
1-31-gjw 16,993 I
~ l LISETED APPEARANCE STATEMENT a
3 ALICE GETTEN 4 MS. GETTEN: Hello. My name is Alice Getten, and 5 I live in Sea Cliff, New York. And I wish to speak briefly 6 and to emplore you not to allow the licensing of the Shoreham 7 nuclear plant. 8 The people of Long Island neither need or want it. 9 An accident, unfortunately, only too likely to occur, would 10 devastate us entirely. There would be no escape. II It is in your power to prevent such a horror from 12 happening. I ask you to please use your power wisely to do 13 so. 14 ! Pleasy do not allow Shoreham to open. 15 (Applause.) 16 , JUDGE MARGULIES: Toni H. Liebman? 17 18 19 20 a 21 22 23 k 24
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1-32-gjw 16,994 l ,' x 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT h 3 TONI H. LIEBMAN MS. LIEBMAN: Good morning. I am here as a 4 5 private resident, and also as an early childhood specialist 6 who is concerned about the future of the children on this 7 Island. 8 My husband and I are residents of Roslyn , Long Island, and we have been for twenty-seven years. We have 9 10 l; also been customers of LILCO for twenty-seven years. II : I We have lived through their equipment management -- 12 mismanagement during numerous storms, which certainly was 0 inconveniencing. We have lived through their fiscal 13 l! u 14 h mismanagement, which has resulted in constant rising cost 15 l of service, but I doubt seriously whether we could live
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16 l through their mismanagement of Shoreham. Rather, the result would be a monumental disaster. 17 l 18 Throughout our period of residency in Roslyn, we have 19 witnessed a tremendous and never-ending surge of traffic 20 on both local and county roads during off-peak hours as well 21 as rush hours. 22 It is ludicrous to think that the evacuation of 23 Suffolk County, via Nassau County, could be organized in an 24- ' orderly way during a crisis situation, such as the one which A<=-Federal Reporters, Inc. ; Especially without state 25 recently took place at Chernobyl.
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I involvemen t. c'. \- Contrary t'o the situation in Russia, our citizens 2 3 would be well-versed by instant media communications, and 4 would be on the roads immediately, all going in the same 5 direction. 6 Not only Suffolk residents, but Nassau residents
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7 as we ll . The prospects are horrifying. And to say to us 8 locations such as the LILCO plant on Willis Avenue wo'uld 9 be able to house sufficient number of refugees for decon-10 tamination is ridiculous. 11 My husband and I and many of our friends urge you 12 not to approve LILCO's plans. Oa 13 ! (Applause.) 14 d JUDGE MARGULIES: Carol Rosenfeldt? 15 l 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 AwFeero Reponen, inc. I 25
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16,996 l-34-gjw s I LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 OF 3 CAROL ROSENFELDT 4 MS. ROSENFELDT: Good morning. I am not a member 5 of any organization, nor am I accustomed to taking political 6 action. The strength of my feelings on this issue have 7 compelled me to come before you today. 8 I have long been concerned, and at times terribly 9 frightened by the prospect of a nuclear power plant on Long 10 Island. II Yes te rday , in preparation to come to this meeting 12 today, I did something I had never. done before. I wrote 13 up a petition, and took it to the Greenbriar Shopping 14 ;i Center, a very well populated shopping center in the area, 15 and my purpose was to see if other Nassau County residents 16 felt as I did, and the petition read as follows: We, the 17 undersigned, feel that the opening of the Shoreham Nuclear 18 Power Plant presents a clear and present danger to the 19 health and safety of the people of Long Island. We are 20 willing and eager to explore energy conservation, as well 1 21 as the use of safer methods to generate energy, such as wind l l 22 and solar, in order to fulfill our energy needs. 23 I was somewhat surprised by the results. Nearly 24 everyone I spoke to, young, old, man, woman, people wearing Act Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 suits, people wearing jeans, nearly everybody agreed with
k-34-gjw 16,997 ,~ 1 me. 2 In other words, in a random sample on a normal 3 weekday, forty-five out of fifty people asked did not want 4 a nuclear power plant on Long Island. 5 Listen to us, because we live here. We know what 6 it is like on the corner of Willis Avenue and the Long Island 7 Expressway at four-thirty on a weekday afternoon. No way 8 can that LILCO facility function as an evacuation center. 9 The size of the facility as well as the traffic 10 conditions make it impossible. II Please don't talk to us of jobs. We would rather 12 l not be kept busy poisoning our environment. There is other 13 j work that needs to be done. Don't talk to us of emergency 14 evacuation planning. We don't want to be put in the position 15 of having to leave the homes we love to be hosed down at a I 16 decontaminatLon center, perhaps never to be able to return. { 17 ' Remember Chernobyl. Radiation does not respect 18 the ten or fifteen mile evacuation zone. The radiation l9 from Chernobyl was carried all over the world. Particles 20 were found right here in New York, and that was from half 21 a world away. 22 And even if we felt it was worth the risk, it is 23 sheer folly to think that the area around Shoreham could be d ,, evacua te d . Given the geographical conditions, and the number ' A Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 of people involved, it is irrational to suppose otherwise. 1
16,998 1-35-gjw 1 I know you have heard all this before, but are you
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2 listening to us. We live here, so we know what it is life, i 3' As for the impossibility of the scenario, we are 4 asked to believe that an orderly evacuation can actually 5 be officiated by LILCO employees. This is, at best, a 6! dangerous error in judgment, and at worst, a blatant 7 disregard for the health and safety of the people of Long 8; Island, while pandering to the interests of big business and 9 big money. 10 ! They say money talks. Now, so do people. And Il you have heard us talking at these hearings for three 12 days now. 8 13 i Money talks, and people talk. Which voice will 14 ? you heed? May God help you to find the courage to mare i 15 1 the difficult decision, the one you know in your heart to be l 16 the right decision, i Our children will bless us for taking a fi m 17 l 18 ! stand today that would ensure a secure future tomorrow. L 19 And thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak. 20 (Applause.) 21 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dr. Howard Koenig? 22 l 23 8 24 ! Aw-r edera' Reporters, Inc. l 25 : l l
16,999 1-36-gjw / I LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT ma l 2 I OF 3 DR. HOWARD KOENIG 4 DR. KOENIG: Good morning. I am Dr. Howard M. 5 Koenig. I am the Superintendent of Schools of the East 6 Meadown Union-free School District. Our District's 7 : headquarters are located on Carman Avenue , in East Meadow, I h 8 ji Nassau County, New York. 1 9 The East Meadown Union-free School District has 10 ; eight public schools and serves approximately seventy-three 11 'l hundred students. I, myself, am a life long resident of 12 ! Long Island, currently living in Huntington, Suf folk County. 13 . I am appearing here today because there have been 14 serious misrepresentations made to this Board about several n 15 critical aspects of LILCO's emergency plan for the Shoreham 0 16 ; plant, which involve my school district as well as other d 17 : school districts in Nassau County, and I am here to set the i 18 l record straight on those matters and to tell you why the h 19 facts know to us who live here on Long Island require that 20 you deny LILCO's request for a license to operate Shoreham. 21 The misrepresentations which I must correct 22j lt involve two issues crucial to public safety. First, LILCO i 23 ! has told this Board that the schools of my school district 8 24 e Aue-Federal Reporters, Inc. q and other Nassau County- school districts are available for 25 use as congregate care centers af ter a Shoreham emergency.
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~ 1 This is false. Second, that LILCO has told this i '~'
2 Board that school districts such as mine located outside 3 LILCO's ten mile EPZ , would release school buses under 4 contract to our school district for LILCO to use to evacuate 5 that ten mile zone during a Shoreman accident. This is also 6 false. 7 Let me address the congregate care center issue 8 first. Despite the past ef forts to bring the misrepresen-9 tations concerning congregate care cetners to the attention 10 of this Board, you have simply ignored the fact tht there 11 are no congregate care centers to provide for sheltering of 12 evacuees from a Shoreham emergency. And I cannot understand 13 how you, charged with enforcing the NRC's regulatory i 14 ; requirements , making what you call findings of fact, and d 15 i protecting the public health and safety, have been able to l 16 i ignore so crucial a fact. I i 17 To place this matter in perspective, I will briefly 18 review some pertinent history. In the Summer of.1984, the 19 then Executive Director of the Nassau County Chapter of the 20 American Red Cross, Mr. Frank Rasbury, appeared before you 21 as a LILCO witness, and stated that the Red Cross had -agreed 22 to perform emergency relocation services in the event of a 23,! Shoreham accident. l! 24 LILCO submitted to you, as so-called evidence , a f Au-Federal Reporters, Inc. l 25 July 25th letter from the Red Cross Lo LILCO which asserted
17,001 1-38-gjw. 1 that the Red Cross had agreements with certain facility ( )
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2 owners, primarily Nassau County School Districts, for the 3 use of their facilities as shelters or congregate care centers 4 in the event of a Shoreham accident. 5 Mr. Rasbury, on LILCO's behalf, provided for 6 your evidentiary record a list of such purported shelter 7 facilities, which identified the East Meadow School District 8 as one district among many that was willing to make its 9 facilities available for use as part of LILCO's emergency 10 plan in the event of a Shoreham emergency. 11 These representations by the Red Cross and LILCO 12 did not come to my attention until the winter of 1985, for the 13 ! simple reas'on that no one, including Mr. Rasbury, the 14 fj Nassau Red Cross, LILCO, or the NRC, had ever bothered to 15 l, ask me, or, to the best of my knowledge, any of the other 16 facility owners identified as having agreed to make 17 ' facilities available to LILCO, whether that, in fact, was 18 true. 19 When I did learn of the representations made about 20 the availability of our facilities for use in a Shoreham 21 e me rgency , I wrote to the Presiding Officer of this Board, l 22 to you, Judge Margulies, and I made it clear that the East 23 Meadownfacilities were not available for LILCO's use, or the 24 Red Cross ' use in the event of a Shoreham emergency wFederal Reporters, Inc. 25 and I will submit for the record a copy of my letter of 1
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,~ l February 15, 1985, to you, as an attachment to this statement.
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2 I followed up that February 15 letter to this Board 3 with a letter of April 3, 1985, addressed directly to Mr. 4 Rasbury. A copy of that April 3rd letter was also directed 5 to you, Judge Margulies, and I am submitting one for the 6 record with this statement. 7 My letter to Mr. Rasbury reiterated that the East 8 Meadow School District facilities were not avai'lable as 9 congregate care centers, and I requested Mr. Rasbury to 10 correct his prior false testimony on that subject. 11 To my knowledge , the testimony was never l 12 corrected. 8 13 ll ll At about the same time as I sent my letter to this 14 4 Board, you were conducting what purported to be a fact hearing 15 l i on the question of whether the LILCO plan had adequate 16 provisions for relocation services for evacuees. 17 l Suf folk County and the State of New York submitted 18 testimony to you at that hearing which demonstrated not only 19 that the East Meadown School District facilities were not 20 available, but also that many other facilities previously 21 identified by LILCO and Mr. Rasbury as being available to be 22 congregate care centers in a Shoreham emergency in fact were 23 not available for that purpose. 8 24l A Federal Reporters, Inc. j A copy of that testimony, sponsored by Mr. Leon 25 Campo, who is Assistant Superintendent for Finance of the
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s I East Meadown School District, is also attached to my statement'
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2 today. 3 By the way, I should note as an aside that Mr. Campo 4 was identified by Mr. Rasbury as the contact person for the 5 use of our district's schools in a Shoreham accident, despite 6 the fact that no one, including Mr. Rasbury or the Nassau 7 Red Cross, ever evendiscussed the matter with Mr. Campo. 8 Inexplicably, this Board refused to accept Mr. 9 Campo 's tesimony. Indeed, the Board persisted in refusing 10 to hear the facts in the so-called fact hearing by also II refusing to accept the statements made by numerous other 12 ' school district officials which made clear that their 8 13 l facilities which collectively comprised almost all of the iI I4L so-called congregate care centers previously identified 15 l as available by LILCO and the Red Cross were in fact not l 16 available. II I And I append to this statement and submit for the l 18 record the letters from 34 f acility owners which were I9 submitted to you in 1985. 20 Nonetheless, on August 26, 1985, the Board issued 21 a decision which addressed the question of whether there 22 were congregate care centers available to LILCO and the 23, Red Cross as they had alleged. Notwithstanding my letter 24 8-Fde<at Reporters, m Inc. to you, the testimony of Mr. Campo, and the unequivocal 25 statements of many other school district of ficials, which
l-41-gjw 17,004 I 1 made clear that the LILCO represnetations and those of Mr.
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2 , Rasbury were false, you inexplicably found as a fact that . 3 there existed agreemen ts with our facilities permitting the 4 Red Cross to use them in a Shoreham emergency. 5 I have stated all of the foregoing at length 6 because I want this Board to understand how seriously I 7 consider this matter. LILCO has never had agreements for the 8 use of our school facilities and other facilities as 9 congregate care centers, you were repeatedly advised of that 10 fact, and yet you repeatedly ignored it. II I am totally at a loss to understand how this Board, . 12 supposedly an objective trier of fact, could jeopardize the 13 i safety of the citizens of Long Island by asserting that there 14j exists adequate facilities to care for evacuees when exactly h 15 i the opposite is the case, and you knew it. 16 Now you are about to start a new proceeding to 17 consider LILCO's plan in the context of the February 13 18 exercise. You must take this opportunity to recognize the 19 truth. There are no congregate care centers for LILCO's 20 use, and that req-ires you to deny LILCO's license 21 application. 22 Even the Nassau County Chapter of the Red Cross 23 has finally acknowledged that the statements made by its 24 Rederal Reporters. formerInc.director are not true. In an August 21., 1986 letter, i I 25 which I submit for the reocrd with this statement, the Red }
1-42-gjw 17,005 I Cross now makes clear that its early July 25, 1984 letter did /- ( ) v 2 not constitute an agreement with LILCO. Thus the Red Cross 3 states: It should be understood that there is no agreement 4 between Long Island Lighting Company and this Chapter relating 5 to the Chapter's responsibility to provide emergency assistance 6 during a radiological emergency. 7 And the Red Cross also states: In the letter to 8 you of July 25, 1984, the Chapter also appended a list of 9 f acilities normally relied upon by the Red Cross to provide 10 ' space for relocation centers in the event of a natural l II ! disas te r . It is our understanding that our letter and list l 12 ! of facilities were submitted to the Nuclear Regulatory 8 13 ! l Commission in the Shoreham licensing proceeding. A significant 0 Id number of the owners of these f acilities have informed us P a 15 S that their facility would not be permitted for use as 16 relocation centers in the event of a radiological emergency at Shoreham. I7 l 18 Others have advised us that their f acilities l9 have been withdrawn for use in any event, either natural 20 or' radiological, close quote. 21 And if that is a result of the misrepresentations, 22 the withdrawal of these facilities in the case of natural I 23 di sa s te rs , that is a real shame. l 1 t 2d l You cannot ignore this statement, and I trust that A@ederal Reporters. Inc. l 25 given this new opportunity, you will use this time -- you
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, I will this time find facts as they truly are.
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2 The final matter which I must address is the 3 question of whether school districts outside the ten mile 4 zone, including mine and others in Nassau County, would release 5 school buses under contract to their district for LICLO's 6 use in an evacuation from a Shoreham Accident. I know that 7 during the hearings you held in 1984 and 1985, LILCO said 8 tht it believed that afger buses fulfilled their pre-existing 9 commitments to school districts, those districts would release 10 them for LILCO's use. 11 In addition, I understand that in your so-called 12 findings of fact, you also found that despite the existing 13 contractual commitments to school districts, buses actually l 14 g would be released for LILCO's use by school administrators 15 after they had made their school rounds. 16 I am here to tell you that LILCO's assumption, which 17 you adopted without even bothering to check with those of us 18 responsible for the decision, is false. 19 There is no way that I would release school buses 20 used to transport school children in my charge, to be taken 21 into a contaminated zone to carry potentially contaminated 22 people and then, presumably, to return and carry my school 23 children back and forth to school the next day. And based 0 24 awf ederal Reporters, Inc. upon conversations I have had with other school administra-tors located outside the ten mile zone, they feel as strongly 25
17,007 1-44-gjw as I do on this point, as to all of the parents of these s 1 children who are in our charge. 2 You are simply dreaming if you believe that people 3 are going to subject their children to the potential risk 4 involved in riding in a contaminated school bus. 5 I know that LILCO supposedly has agreements, and 6 I use the term loosely, with bus companies that state after 7 thave fulfilled their commitments to school districts they will 8 provide buses for LILCO's use. I am not a lawyer, but I can 9 tell you that those agreements are not worth very much, 10 I because as far as I am concerned, on the day of a Shoreham accident, the bus companies with which my district has 12 , . I contracts could only fulfill their commitments to me by keeping those buses uncontaminated, and available for trans-14 1 j! porting the children under my charge to safety. 15 !
! Again, this new proceeding provides an opportunity 16 l; for you to face those f acts and to correct your earlier 17 so-called findings.
18 Unless LILCO has unearthed some brand new bus 19 companies, which do not provide services for school children 20 or others whose safety needs to be protected, there will be 21 no vehicles available _ for LILCO to drive into the contaminated 22 area within ten miles of the plant. 23 And as I understand it, unless LILCO has come up 8 A. .seon, i seporters. Inc. 25 with some other magical way to evacuate the tens of thousands
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, 1 of people who will need bus transportation out of the ten N:
2 mile zone, you must find as a fact that such an evacuation 3 is impossible. 4 And for that reason, in addition to the others 5 I have already discussed, you must deny LILCO's license 6 application. 7 In conclusion, let me state that I have spoken 8 to other administrators -- school administrators in Nassau 9 County, and they have assured me that neither their 10 facilities nor the buses under contract to them, are 11 l available for use by LILCO during a Shoreham accident. I 12 They are as outraged as I am at the misrepresenta-tions that have been ade to this Board and adopted without 13 [! 14 [ question by you, and they cannot understand how you men can 15 l i sit idly by, continue to cover your eyes, and pretend that 16 l facts don't exist. 17 Gen tlemen , in our classrooms across this county, i 18 this state and this nation, we teach our students about how 19 this government functions. We teach them how our government 20 derives its power from the people it represents, and that 21 there are agencies at all levels of that government who are 22 charged with the responsibility of protecting the health, 23 the safety, and the welfare of the people. 24 8.-Federal Reporters, m Inc.This issue is not a question of legal niceties, 25 but one of whether you are going to live up to that
17,009 1-46-gjw s 1 responsibility, and we who are responsible for teaching the (v\ 2 cildren of this nation will, along with all the other 3 citizens, we watching and be waiting for your response. 4 (Applause.) End 1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 i 12 l 8 le , i 14h l 15 ' I 16 I i l' 17 18 19 20 7j / 22 23 240 9 Federal Reporters. Inc. 25
17,010 Sim 2-1 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: Maurice Barbash. , 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT \
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3 OF 4 MARUICE BARBASH 5 MR. BAFBASH: Good morning. 6 My name is Maruice, and I am Chairman of 7 Citizens to replace LILCO. This is a coalition encompassing 8 People who are worried about safety and businessmen who 9 are concerned about the economics of the Shoreham plant. 10 I personally, I am a residential developer and n have been so on Long Island of houses, condominiums and 12 aparmtents and co-owned apartment houses on Long Island. 13 Our organization, by the way, has a computerized 14 list of about 10,000 members. 15 As businessmen, we look at this matter in the 16 age-old methodology of a risk-benefit ratio. What are s j 37 we risking and what do we get for the risk we assume? 2
, jg For the risks we take your figures, we read 8
j jg your figures which tell us in a meltdown 40,000 immediate a
! 20 deaths, 35,000 cancer deaths, 75,000 injuries and $157 g
d 21 billion, which I cannot believe of property damage, most ir g of which is uninsured and uninsurable. 23 For the benefits we are up against it. We can't 24 find any because all of the analyses we have seen, economic
' analyses point to not benefits. These aren't only our 25 l
17,011 Sim I 2-2 own analyses or the analyses of the State of New York 2 Energy Office. 7 . Just recently the Sawhill Commission ( .i
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3 composed of members who cannot be accused of any partiality 4 against LILCO, any bias against LILCO, any bias against 5 Shoreham. John Sawhill is the former Energy Chief under l 6 : President Nixon. Jack Bierworth, or John Bierworth is 7 Chairman of the Board of Grummond. Ben Hogan of Harvard 8 testifies regularly for utilities, private utilities. 9 Al Kahn is a form PSC Chairman. 10 They found that at the best Shoreham would 11 benefit the ratepayer of Long Island approximately $200 12 million over 15 years, an absolute total drop in the bucket. 13 So, therefore, economically we are getting 14 nothing for the risks we are being asked to assume. No 15 gambler, no extreme gambler, Nick the Greek wouldn't take 16 that bet. It is a crazy bet. It doesn't give us anything. 17 You heard Mitch Palley of the LIA and, 7 18 incidentally, I am a former LIA Director and totally j 19 familiar with their history and how their decisions are i E 20 made. He alluded to the fact that we are desperately a f 21 worried about power availability. Nonsense. We have done 5 22 an in-depth study and we-know, and the Govenror has 23 guaranteed adequate power. 24 LILCO's projections if you look at them are 25 double our actual utilization of power. We have not
l 17,012 Sim 2-3 1 suffered any power brownouts. All we have suffered is the m 2 incompetence of LILCO in delivering power on a daily i 3 reputable basis. 4 We are worried that the rates that we are going 5 to be confronted with if saddled with the total cost of 6 Shoreham will drive business off the island. Not all 7 business, but I do know of 20 businesses that are planning 8 to leave because they won't be able to afford the rates. 9 You have got the high energy users primarily 10 such as the plastics manufacturers, the printers, the 11 machine toolists. So what we would suffer is a loss of 12 economic diversity, and that is something that we don't 13 want to contend with because everybody knows what happens 14 to a one-industry town when that industry goes down the 15 tubes. 16 If we are going to be dependent upon people h 17 who can afford to pay the high rates, we are going to be - 18 extremely vulnerable and we do not want that to happen. j 19 The solution of Citizens To Replace LILCO 20 was a very modest, businesslike solution. Buy out the t 3 21 company and close the plant. Buying out the company means l 22 Paying the stockholders fair market value, even better than 23 fair market value. 24 I have personally been accused of being a 25 LILCO schill by people who don't want to pay the company
17,013 Sim 2-4 1 a damn cent. I say a businesslike solution is a business-c- 2 like solution. We would buy out the company. We would l \
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3 assume the debt and we would restructure the debt, and 4 three independent studies have shown that the ratepayer 5 of Long Island would benefit significantly. Three objectivc 6 studies, the Nassau County Study, the Suffolk County Study 7 and the John Sawhill Study have shown that the ratepayer 8 would benefit with out solution. 9 Now last year you decided I think that you 10 couldn't have an evacuation plan without local coopeartion. 11 What is the situation this year? Infinitely worse than 12 last year as far as everybody is concerned. You have 13 heard all of the testimony and I won't go into it about 14 the Nassau Colosseum loss, the WALK loss, the Red Cross 15 loss, the school loss. There isn't a fabric, there isn't 16 a shread of an evacuation plan. h 17 But I'll tell you personally what begins to e
- 18 worry me. The situation has changed. I am deeply, deeply 5
j 19 worried about the fact that these proceedings regarding 20 such a volitile dangerous technology as the nuclear d technology are suppposed to be above and beyond reproach, 21 0 2 nd above any sort of political or partisan influence. 22 23 And when we hear that a gentleman described 24 euphemistically as a public relations man, but more 25 accurately as an influence peddler by such an authority
17,014 as David Stockman, and when a Mr. Lynn Nofsinger has Sim 2-5 1 already gotten a half a million dollars from LILCO, we 2 u-3 begin to wonder what has happened to the decision-making process, very honestly. Mr. Nofsinger hasn't appeared 4 before the Public Service Commission on a rate case. He 5 hasn't appeared before you and he hasn't appeared any place. 7 We Can't find out and notbody tells us what g he does for LILCO. We can only guess and you can only guess what he does for LILCO and what does that make us 0 suspect about the integrity of the decision-making process of the Nuclear Reculatory Commission? 12 And if anything I am saying is slanderous, then let Mr. Nofsinger and Dr. Catacacinas sue me because I would damn well like to know what is going on behind the scenes, and I think all of us would. 16 3 You have been fed a lie by LILCO that as so I 2 17 goes Shoreham so goes the nuclear industry. That is fabricated out of whole cloth. Any businessman knows that j 19 5 if you make a mistake, acknowledge it, stand up, take j 20 a your losses and start all over again. If you are really 21 y concerned about the future of the nuclear industry, 22 recognize the mistakes you made. If somebody came to you 23 today and said we want to build an atomic plant on Long 24 9 25 Island you would laugh them out of the room.
17,015 Sim 2-6 1 Well, t:1e fact that Shoreham is here doesn't f- 2 mean that it is any more fitting to have it open on Long
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3 Island. 4 I urge those in charge at the NRC to look 5 at the situation with a long-range view. If mistakes have 6 been made here or elsewhere acknowledge them and get on with 7 your business. 8 If you think nuclear energy has a place in . 9 our future, the only way you are going to assure it is 10 to stand up and be honest and admit that mistakes have 11 been made. This has been an absolutely terrible mistake 12 and you should not continue it. 13 Thank you. ( Applause . )
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14 15 JUDGE MARGULIES: Assemblywoman' Barbara 16 Paton. O k 17 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 h 18 OF 5 j 19 BARBARA PATON i E 20 MS. PATON: Mr. Chairman and members of the a 3 21 Licensing Board, I first of all want to thank you for the 3 22 Pportunity to be able t'o bring testimony this morning and 23 for this series of hearings that you are holding on Long 24 Island. 25 The issue of Shoreham and its perspective
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17,016 Sim 2-7 1 opening is something that touches the lives of all of the s 2 people of Long Island and certainly in the district that 3 I represent, and the people across Long Island have been 9 4 concered with this issue for many, many years since it 5 truly touches and concerns the lives of many families. 6 We who live on Long Island will be most affectec 7 by your decisions, and these hearings finally afford us 8 an opportunity to bring to you and to explain to you our 9 feelings on Shoreham. 10 I therefore want to encourage you to place 11 great emphasis on the testimony, not only that you have 12 heard in the previous hearings, but certainly the testimony 13 today and those people who will follow me since those of 14 us who live on Long Island are the ones who will be fully 15 'affected if in fact Shoreham is allowed to open. 16 Gentlemen, I am a public official and a a h 17 legislator and I represent a small portion of Long Island. 2
- 18 I am not a traffic consultant and I am not a health expert 3
j 19 and I am not a specialist in nuclear energy. I can only l 20 relate therefore to you the concerns that the people in a d 21 my district have come to me with, that they have written
- to me about, that they have lobbied me about and that on 22 23 an individual basis they have talked to me about, and that 24 is their fear, their very real fear of the opening of 25 Shoreham.
17,017 Sim 2-8 Specifically they relate to me their fear of an a cident, their frustration and their continued frustra-a 2 ~~ tion with the mismanagement of Shoreham and their fear of 3 the lack of the ability on the part of LILCO officials to 4 adequately implement an evacuation plan. 5 I am sure you learned in the previous two hearings that Shoreham evokes a tremendous amount of 7 Concern, and Certainly a tremendous amount of fear. This fear has increased dramatically in light of the recent g accident at Chernobyl. Chernobyl has taught us that a disastrous nuclear accident can occur. The long-term effects on the area surrounding the Chernobyl plant will not be known for many, many years and perhaps decades. We just all therfore ensure that we do not 15 place the people on Long Island in similar danger. We must 3 guarantee the people who have chosen to make Long Island
= 17 e
their home that they will not be in danger.of losing their lives, their family members, their loved ones and their g 19 a neighbors, that they will not be forced on day to evacuate j 20
- f. their homes and that their health and well being will not 21 2
g be put in danger. 22 A second and very important lesson that I think 23 was learned from Chernobyl was that this accident had 24 9 25 a major impact on the lives of many people outside the I I
17,018 Sim 2-9 1 immediate area. People up to 70 miles away were eventually
+ 2 evaucated. ~
3 Thus, a very important point I think that we 4 must accept and you must accept in your decision is that 5 an accident at Shoreham will affect all of Long Island 6 and not just the area within the 10-mile radius of the 7 P l ant. 8 Radiation, as someone said previously, knows 9 no boundaries and will not stop at the Nassau/Suffolk 10 borderline. Nassau County residents will be deeply affected 11 by any accident at Shoreham and that point should not be 12 overlooked as you make your decision. 13 I thing it is abundantly clear that Nassau j4 County residents have been ignored in LILCO's plan. It is unrealistic to assume that the residents of Nassau County 15 16 would not attempt to evaucate in the event of an accident. I know that I would want to be evacuated, and 37 e
$ 18 I w uld want to evacuate ray family. I know that the 19 majority of the constituents that I have spoken to would i
attempt an evacuation. E 20 E d In fact, a recent Newsday poll showed that a 21 3 E greater percentage of Nassau residents would evacuate 23 r ther than even Suffolk residents. g This is a major flaw in the plan, and I urge yut consider the ramifications as you consider this 25
17,019 Sim 2-10 1 issue. 2 This is another very obvious flaw in the LILCO i 3 evaucation plan, and that is that it is unrealistic to 4 assume that Long Island can even be evacuated. Anyone who 5 has spent at least one hour on any of our major highways, 6 the Long Island Expressway, the Northern and the Southern 7 State Parkways, knows that it would be impossible to evacuate 8 a large number of people from the island. Traffic conges-g tion has become an issue that we on Long Island live with 10 and are deeply concerned about as Long Island continues ij to grow. 12 In summary, I guess I request that you consider 13 three issues. 14 Are Long Island residents willing to absorb 15 the risks associated with Shoreham? And the answer to that 16 is I think not. n h 17 Can their health and safety be guaranteed?
- 18 And again I thing not.
8
; ig Is the plan that has been submitted to you 20 realistic? And again the answer is no.
d g I therefore urge you to consider these very 9 M three important issues and consider the testimony that you 23 have heard throughout these hearings, and in the final 24 analysis consider Long Island residents and deny LILCO's 25 license to operate Shoreham.
17,020 I Sim 2-11 Thank you very much. 2
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( Applau se . ) a 3 Dr. George Nickland. JUDGE MARGULIES: 4 (No response. ) 5 Angelo Orazio. 6 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 7 op 8 ANGELO ORAZIO 9 MR. ORAZIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and 10 members of the panel. My name is Angelo Orazio and I 11 live in Searingtown in Nassau County. 12 From 1975 to 1984 I served as State Assemblyman 13 from the 15th Assembly District. During that period I 9, 14 served as Chairman of the Legislative Commission on Energy 15 Systems for two years and as Chariman of the Assembly 16 Energy Committee for six years. j 17 I have 2istened as undoubtedly you also have 18 to thousands of pages of testimony for and against nuclear h 2 19 power and for and against the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant j 20 in particular. 4 21 This seemingly interminable debate has only l
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22 succeeded in solidifying opposition to the Shoreham Nuclear 23 Power Plant and, furthermore, delayed appropriate and 24 necessary efforts to develop alternative and more environ-S 25 mentally benign sources of electric energy.
17,021 Sim 1-12 1 One would hope that the NRC would end this ^ 2 process expeditiously keeping in mind that the overriding 1 3 consideration should be that the people of Long Island do 4 not want this plant to operate. 5 The recent Newsday poll indicated that 74 6 percent of the people of Nassau and Suffolk oppose LILCO 7 operating the Shoreham Nuclear Plant. 8 One would hope that the NRC would recognize 9 this fact and act accordingly. I ask you not to license 10 the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 11 Thank you. 12 (Applause.) 13 JUDGE MARGULIES: John W. Matthews. 14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 JOHN W. MATTHEWS e h 17 MR. MATTHEWS: Good morning, gentlemen, and 2
- 18 ladies and gentlemen.
I j 19 My name is John Matthews and I reside in Long a 20 Beach, Long Island. I would like to refer to today's issue d 21 f the New York Times, page A-23, AP Dateline Moscow, h 22 September 25th. Three Chernobyl firemen given Soviet 23 awards. The Soviet Union today bestowed the title of 24 Hero of the Soviet Union, one of the highest awards, on 25 three firemen at ne Chernobyl Nuclear Plant.
17,022 Sim 2-13 Two of the firefighters, Victor Gorbnick and Vladamire Provick have died of radiation sickenss. Th'e 2 x j third, Major Lenaid Teneskov survived and photographs of him show him to be without hair. 4-Loss of hair is a common con' sequence of exposure to high radiation levels. 6 The announcement of the awards came today, one 7 week after the weekly newspaper, Gazetta, criticized, No. 1, bureaucratic bungling and, No. 2, site selection and other shortcomings as the contributing factor to the Chernobyl disaster. 11 With regard to the evacuation, who are the 12 citizens of Long Island going to listen to? LILCO? LILCO 13 doesn't even know how to come in out of the rain and their management doesn't know how to come home after the rain. 15 (Applause.) 16 i Let capitalism be capitalism. Let the investors g 17 s lose their money for the poor management. g 18 0 (Applause.) j 19 j Let democracy truly be democracy. The people i 20 [r have spoken on Long Island and Shoreham is unwanted. You 21 3 ~ hold in your hands the lives of 8 million people, and only 22 eight bridges to leave Long Island to get to another island, 23 Manhattan Island. 24 9 25 I find it hard to believe that the situation
17,023 Sim 2-14 1 can be considered in ' terms of only the profit motive. j 2 ,. Prior to'last year, 1985, no one thought that V 3 anyone in Nassau County cared about Shoreham. We had a , 4. political contest in Nassau County whereby Shoreham became 0 the central issue and,resulted in the change of positions 6 of practically every elected official of the Republican 7 Party. 8 .Do not.think that Queens and Brooklyn, who g share this island with us and their five million residents, 10 wouldn't also flee if there was a nuclear accident, and they 4
. 11 would fee to the Bronx and' Manhattan, and I am_sure we 12 can just picture everyone in the Bronx and Manhattan 1
13 anxiously awaiting the arrival of everyone-from Long
) 14 Island. It is a disaster. There is no way that it can 15 be done.
16 I would like to make two suggestions with i
; s 17 . regard to the Long Island Association's appearance here.
4
; 18 It is about time that they polled their members and to take ,
i
= 19 a position for or against Shoreham rather than just saying t d 20 you should come up with a decision.
d And just in case the Board of Supervisors ever 21 i l-i E 22 changes its mind with regard'to the use of the Nassau i 23 Veterans Memorial Colosseum, I am continuing my appeal on i l 24 the decision of a Supreme Court Judge that the County
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25 Executive acted. illegally in offering the Nassau colosseum i 1
-_ . . - . = _ _ = .
17,024 Sim 2 1 as an evacuation center, and I will continue with that 2 appeal. 3 Please don't let Shoreham open'. Let those 4 investors who bet money on the flesh and blood of the 5 People of Long Island lose. Let the people win and let 1 ) 6 democracy work. 7 Thank you. 8 (Applause.) i g JUDGE MARGULIES: . George Nickland. If Mr. 10 Nickland'is here,-please come forward. ji (No response. )
.12 Charlene Sherwin.
13 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i f~
- j. k_)) 14 OF j 15 CHARLENE SHERWIN MS. SHERWIN: Honorable Judges, my name is
) 16 t : 37 Charlene Sherwin. I live in Masapequa, New York. I operate l
; 18 a private school which services children in both Nassau and
[E a ig Suffolk Counties.
- l 20 I became very concerned about the proposed e i a 4
f 21 operation of the Shoreham plant.when I began researching I I c 22 the effects of low-level radiation on young children. That . 23 .is why I joined a group called the Long Island Coalition I for Safe Living in December of 1984. 25 This group, which grew to some 200,000 through i l l }
17,025 Sim 2-16 , its affiliate members, mostly.in Nassau County, was most concerned with the potential hazard of Shoreham to our t,,
's /' health and safety and the safety of our children, our 3
air and our water. 4 Now that I have introduced myself, gentlemen, 5 I would just like to know and get it clear in my head that you are indeed a part of this same Nuclear Regulatory 7 Commission who gave a license to Three Mile Island after 8 g one year of trouble with the low-power testing? It fulfille _. y ur li ensing requirem nts, but three months later had O a hear meltdown. 11 A radioactive plume escaped which was never measured because the measuring logs were lost and the I'Q;) hugh filter disappeared. (> 14 This same Nuclear Regulatory Commission saw nothing strange in this. Are you the same Nuclear i Regulatory Commission who gave Three Mile Island, one, g 17 I a restate license in the middle of 2,000 suing and being
- 18 8
paid out-of-court settlements from the Three Mile Island j 19 l accident? $15 million has been paid to 300 victims who g 20 J had to sign disclaimer forms saying that they would not 21 I
; speak about their conditions, about their cancers, about 22 their children's dying and their children's deformities.
23 Yu are the same Nuclear Regulatory Commission who said 24
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(,)) 25 that there were no deaths from the Three Mile Island
17,026
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., Sim 2-17 1 -accident. 2 The people of Long. Island are sophisticated, 3 gentlemen. They can'make connections to this same Nuclear $, 4 Regulatory Commission, especially when there is a threat 1 5 to their children and their lives, to their property, among I I 6 the most beautiful and expensive-homes in the nation. 7 They become very concerned, gentlemen, when there is a j 8 threat to their businesses and they make connections. I l g The people of Nassau County are concerned about e 10 their lives if Shoreham opens. We didn't need a Chernobyl ij to make.us realize that a radioactive plume carrying
- 12 Cesium 137 would not stop at the Nassau/Suffolk border.
i i 13 The Nassau County Board of Supervisors began 34 the process of the withdrawal.of Nassau County participation
- 1 15 in the LILCO evacuation plan a year and a half ago in j
16 response to the people of Nassau County. They began-l i s 17 listening to the people demanding the withdrawal of the ! ; 18 Nassau Veterans Memorial Colosseum and Nassau County 2 i g 39 facilities at. board meeting in January of 1985 in this 20 very room. I $ 21 They responded to petitions, and I have-them i a here, 2,000 Nassau County residents collected over a two- I 22
- 23 week period'when people stood in line to sign. We are not talking about a Karen Silkwood here, one person to be l 24 i
I 25 eliminated. The lastest Newsday poll showed 74 percent of
17,027 Sim 2-18 -1 the people of Nassau County. There are approximately 1.3
. 2. million people, which means that one million people here 3 in Nassau County alone are saying no to Shoreham, that 4 the Shoreham Nuclear Power' Plant should not open.
5 The same poll showed that 63 percent, 850,000 6 people, gentlemen, would not follow the LILCO evacuation 7 plan, and would not believe the LILCO staff, would not 8 stay in their homes, but would leave fast. 850,000 Nassau g residents would leave their homes fast if there were an j - 10 accident and would probably shoot the LILCO employees f 33 . trying to prevent-them from evacuating their families and I 12 their pets. l 13 LILCO plans to' blockade certain streets leading ,. ( 34 to their facilities in Rosslyn, Bellmore and Hicksville j 15 where 140,000 people would be directed for monitoring I 16 and decontamination. . 3 37 Since the original drill no longer. applies, 1 i ; 18 we w uld like to know when you plan to schedule a new
'. c j ig drill on these new facilities and your new NRC LILCO plan, .
i a j l3 20 Without the participation of Suffolk County, j d New York State and Nassau County, nobody respects this 21 t I
- m kery of a plan. We live here and we know that Nassau 22 and Suffolk County residents cannot be evacuated safety.
23 l I g The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has aligned 4 itself with losers. The people will not allow Shoreham 25 i l
'17,028 Sim 2-19 1 to operate. The people will hold you responsible, gentlemen, 2
and the President who appointed the Nuclear Regulatory 3 Go back and tell the President that Long Zech Commission. 4 Island will not be sacrificial lambs for the nuclear 5 industry. The people have made connections. 6 ( Applause . ) 7 And the Tefflon has worn off. 8 Thank you, gentlemen for coming'and hearing 8 us today. to (Applause.) II JUDGE MARGULIES: Bob Stein. 12 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 13 op O ,4 BOB STEIN 15 MR. STEIN: Good morning, gentlemen. I am 16 Bob Stein. I represent 800 Uniondale petitioners who 17 are absolutely shocked to discover the Nassau Colosseum l 18 was cited by LILCO as a radioactive decontamination canter. I 19 We are talking democracy here, gentlemen, and LILCO's i j 20 violation of its sacred laws. J 21 LILCO was never open about its evacuation plan 22 fearing the people would reject it, and rightly so. When 23 apprised of LILCO's sham paper plan which in no way pro - 24 tected them, the sensible people of Nassau demanded that 25 their legislature remove the colosseum and all of Nassau
17,029 Sim 2-20 1 facilities from LILCO's brave new world. They wisely did N 2 so. 3 The Legislature effectively said no to any 4 evacuation in Nassau County. LILCO showing no public 5 accountability and having an even less credible image 6 in the public and business community's eyes now ironically 7 and justly finds that it has isolated itself in its 1 8 own headquarters like a jackel. 9 This is democracy at work. People in government 10 have freely acted to rid society of anathama, LILCO's 33 evacuation plan. The folly the Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission is actively promoting with ex uses rationaliza-13 tions, falsehoods and criminal negligel:ce . (,/ 34 Do you know the deep meaning >f these actions, 15 gentlemen? 16 Democracy and freedom to choos are the most
; 37 cherished constituted political virtues in this world.
2
- 18 People demand protection and freedom cn the evacuation j 19 issue. The first charge of any judicial commission in these J
20 United States, I might' remind you, is to serve and protect 1 d 21 the people. l t 22 The peop1'e want to know, will you be open and 23 serve the people, or will you be a run-away and whore-like g like LILCO? 25 Please realize the public on this island is
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17,030 Sim 2-21 , overwhelming outraged with LILCO's rate hikes, cmergency performance during Hurricane Gloria, blocking of bhdap i i 0 hydropower from Canada, mismanagement and attendant coverup I of construction on Shoreham, false representation and , ursurption of the public domain in its evacuation plan, destruction of a healthy business climant, poor investment 6 return to its own stockholders, poor investments and lies 7 about.its own public responsibility. I protested at the drill on February 13th at the colosseum. I witnessed no adequate semblance of 10 a real Long Island evacuation. The actual jammed up j 11 i mass helpless panic would defy description and would 12 defy LILCO's evacuation plan as well, especially counting < 13 the all too real shadow effect. Everyone knows this and why not you?
- 15 ;
- The NRC has chosen to use the powers'of the !
{ 16 I judicial system against the people, powerful immoral stuff. g 17 i ! You have your hands full, gentlemen. No plans to evacuate ! I '* 8 l hospitals and nursing homes, buses going against the full l j. 19 , j flow of mass flight and never to make.it to the 10-mile
! 20 l" zone, no full meeting with the public about the February :
1 21 13th impotent drill, revisionist games about Frank Petrone 22 for honest assessment of the drill. 23 Buses are funded by state money. Parents will 1 24 ! not allow their radioactive use. Greater traffic tie-ups j 25 l 1 1
17,031 Sim 2-22' on our roads in the future are estimated. 2 Are you above universal law? 3 We know the full impotent, unnatural and 4 unrealistic story, judges. Soon all the radio stations 5 yg11 withdraw. The Red Cross having not informed schools 6 about their participation in the LILCO machinations is 7 We will rock their foundations. being fully exposed. 8 The public will judge if the Red Cross by 9 aiding and abetting LILCO is serving to uphold their charter 10 to protect the public. This is wildfire and we are informed. 11 The police of Nassau County will be removed 12 from LILCO's dark arrogant, secretive, desperate plans. 13 LILCO and the NRC are assuming a small, un-Chernobyl-like p_ ! l \/ 14 accident. 15 LILCO could neither monitor, nuch less control 16 any higher magnitude accident. We know the NRC, the 3 17 State of Pennsylvania and that utility there were more 18 interested in minimizing Three Mile Island than actually h c j 19 promptly enough to evaucate people. i C 20 The NRC has suppressed information on cancers l
- e 21 and deaths, but the insurance settlements don't lie. There
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22 being no evacuation, the NRC isolated is running roughshod 23 by accepting LILCO's bogus plan without the participation 24 of State and local officials. 25 Our government is' serving to protect us. Will
17,032 L Sim 2-23 , you supercede'that constitutional mandate by breaking the law? Will LILCO in.effect rule over our government? A 2
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Incidentally, we have a revealing and' indicting d 3 letter by a hospital official about LILCO's emergency performance during IIurricane Gloria. I will read this at the end if you allow me to. . a 6 The NRC in a sense is4the guest of the local 7 1
- people here, and we know the lies abounding our lives.
3 We know there is no about of liability insurance to protect 9 us here. LILCO is not serving th'e public interest. Our j 10 island is overdeveloped and polluted already. 11 You know there is no evacuation possible. The 12 4 people know there is a fanatical totalitarian process 13 going on. You look to be alone. LILCO is the hottest item for environmental, 15 consumer and social change as I-canvass door to door at i 16
! night. If democracy is violated her on this heavily g 17 I populated island, we will revolt.
4 y 18 E You know yourselves better and our land. Take j l 19 , y your selective legal pallavar and evil machinations on j j 20 , . g the shoreham issue and send them to hell. 21
, Our hearts and minds appeal to you and your , 22
] finer qualities as judges. Let's not disgrace this earth j 23 nor the people on it. . l I - Now I will read the letter. I
,/ 25
)
17,033 1 Sim 2-22 1 This is dated. April 3rd, 1986. To whom it e 2 may concern. As Director of Engineering and Safety at 3- Community Hospital of Western Suffolk, I feel qualified 4 to make the following statements. 5 1. During the emergency drill at the Shoreham 1 6 Nuclear Power Plant held this past year no plan was l 7 coordinated with the hospital. J I 8 2. During Hurricane Gloria in September 1985
)
j 9 we were without electric power for four days. During ? 10 this time we were unable to contact anyone'in authority l it at LILCO who could tell us when our electric power would l 12 be restored. ! 13 Apparently no plans were made to make hosptials 14 .a priority in terms of returning electric power to customers , j 15 and LILCO obviously had no plan in effect in order to deal 16 with a disaster of this nature.
; 17 Judging by their past actions, we do not under-i 4
i
- 18 stand how LILCO can be expected to manage a nuclear power i
j 19 plant effectively and we have yet to see how any positive 20 change can occur in the way that LILCO is approaching
- a l I d 21 this controversial issue. ;
i' i ' t- G rge Mall,' Director, Engineering and Safety, 22 l
. I 23 Community of Western Suffolk.
24 JUDGE MARGULIES: We will take a 10-minute I
\ recess.
2, . (Recess taken.) l
17,034 Sim '?-23 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dr. George Nickland.
' LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 OF 4
DR. GEORGE NICKLAND. DR. NICKLAND: I am Dr. George Nickland. I am l 6 t physician who practices here in Nassau County. 7 I have come to address Morton B. Margulies, 8 l Frederick Shon and Jerry Kline. 9 I am presenting a copy of a petition signed 10 I would by 170 physicians in Nassau and Suffolk County. Il like to read the statement of the petition. 12 We as physicians are writing to you to alert 13 you to alert you to our feelings concerning the Shoreham
,y l ' I4 Nuclear Reactor and the generation of electricity by 15 nuclear methods. There is no minimum safe dose of 16 radiation, that is X-rays. The recent Russian reactor 17 ! accident emphasizes this.
18 Accordingly because of cost efffectiveness 19 { and as physicians recognizing the danger to the society 7 ti j 20 at large, we urge that the Shoreham Nuclear Reactor be 4 j 21 moth balled or dismantled, but certainly not permitted l E 22 to operate. i 23 I have a one-page statement which I have 24 prepared, and I believe you have a copy before you. You 25 also have copies of the 170 signatures on the petition.
17,035 Sim 2-24 Do you have the original 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: 2 to put in the record? 3 DR. NICKLAND: I have the original, but I 4 did not bring it with me. I brought two copies of the 5 original. 6 JUDGE MARGULIES: The reporter'does.have a copy 7 of the statement that will go into the record and you 8 may read your statement. 9 DR. NICKLAND: Thank you very much, sir. 10 Physicians are informed consumers of nuclear - 11 radiation and have suffered themselves from a higher 12 incidence of cancer and leukemia related to this. This 13 has been especially true of radiologists who have 14 specialized in radiation medicine. 15 As a physician I strongly favor research in 16 nuclear power and hopefully the ultimate generation of 17 electrical power for other power by nuclear means.
; is I do not believe that the current fission i
j ig technology is adequate for the generation of electricity, J !3 20 and it is my impression that the Nuclear Regulatory 5 21 C mmission is caught in the coils of the need to produce ir 22 plutonium bombs from the waste materials which civilian 23 reactors produce. 24 Therefore, they are really compelled by their 25 obligation to the Federal Government's defense establishment l l
17,036 Sim 2-25 1 to approve these. reactors. 2 I assume that such approval is predicted on 3 the reactors are safe enough to warrent the risk. However, 4' I do believe that the Chernobyl and the Three Mile Island j 5 accidents have brought this into much sharper focuc. j 6 Were we to have 100,000 casualities on Long i 7 Island, as they had at Chernobyl, we would have no way, 8 even by utilizing the greater New York area hospital care l 9 facilities, of coping with these casualities, i i to It is because the population density is much I j it higher on Long Island and the metropolitan area that the 12 casualty rate would considerably exceed _the 100,000. It l 13 would be difficult to mobilize 20,000 hosptial beds in the l i l 0 V 14 Long Island area even if we called into action every l j 15 reserve military unit hospital that is in the area. 4 16 I feel that we need further research into s
! g7 nuclear power. I believe that ultimately the method of 18 power production will have to be fusion since there is h
I 5 j ig no radioactive waste from this method. J l 20 I also want to say that I realize we are 10 or i 5 15 years from fusion technology. I do not believe that l 21 i ir 22 the current nuclear power technology is satisfactory because 23 f the waste radiation and the explosion and breakdown l l l 24 hazard problems problems to produce electric power in the 25 densely populated United States.- i i ..
17,037 Sim 2-26 , In closing I stand by my original statement that because of cost ineffectiveness and as physicians recog- ! ') w/ nizing the danger to the society at large we urge that the 3 Shoreham Nuclear Reactor be moth balled or dismantled, but certainly not permitted to operate. The fact that the Chernobyl accident released 6 more radiation fallout than all prior bombs exploded in toto sheds further light on this. George Nickland, M.D. Thank you very much. (Applause.) JUDGE MARGULIES: Carol Melnick. 12 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 13 ry l OF
'v/ 14 CAROL MELNICK 15 MS. MELNICK: Hello I am Carol Melnick, a 16 ! resident of the Town of Hamsted. I am speaking for myself, R 17 O ! but I am also a member of the Religious Society of Friends, 18 i
Quakers, and I feel that I am under the weight of the spirit d 19 y with this concern. j 20
; why Shoreham should not open: Because our
- 21 l world has already seen Chernobyl, because Pennsylvania has alredy seen Three Mile Island, because familiarity 23 with radiation should not be allowed to bring contempt for 24 the human species, because radiation is accumulative,
17,038 Sim 2-27 1 because there is danger to the watertable, because once
-- 2 the watertable is polluted it is too late, becc.use there
/
\
3 is danger that there will be radioactive hot spots on the 4 nearby land such as there are by Brookhaven, because the 5 harm from radiation is much more extensive and long lasting 6 than other pollutants and can effect terrible consequences, 7 both for those that are here now as well as for future 8 untold generations of people as well as other living g creatures and plants. 10 In conclusion, the evacuation plan appears to 33 be totally unrealistic. There are real human beings 12 living here, women, men, children and babies. We Americans 13 as well as all human beings of course have a right to n
) 34 have high standards and ideals concerning our health both 15 physically and psychologically.
16 W do not want to feel that we are trapped 3
; 37 living on this narrow island in the event of a nuclear disaster,
- 18 s
; 39 Thank you.
4 20 IAPP I ""8 *) d 21 JUDGE MARGULIES: liarold Kline. E 22 (No response. ) 23 J ff Newman. 24 MR. NEWMAN: I haven't completed my statement, Y ur lionors. So I would like a delay and to be able to 25
17,039 Sim 2-28 . 1 make my statement a little later this morning. rs 2 JUDGE MARCULIES: We will call on you later 3 this morning. 4 MR. NEWMAN: Thank you. 5 JUDGE MARGULIES: May Neuberger. 6 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 7 OP 8 MAY NEUBERGER 9 MS. NEUBERGER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and to members of the panel, it I have a very brief statement to make. I would 12 suspect I am the Assemblywoman representing the 16th 13 Assembly District on the north shore of Long Island, and i o (j! 14 I would suspect that over these days of the hearings that 15 you have had an accumulation of both emotional, statistical 16 and factual responses.
; 17 And if you have learned anything so far, I I , tg cannot but believe that you must know how deeply and how ) 19 strongly the feelings of the people of Long Island run 20 n this issue.
d I just want to say to you again, and I am not 21 r going to repeat the statistics. You have heard them. But 22 23 I want to assure you that this is not an hysterical reaction. 24 It is not an irrational reaction by the citizens of Long f 25 Island, however emotionally couched. Nor is it an unfounded
17,040 Sim 2-29 1 reaction. f 2 It is based on experience. It is based on ( 1 3 experience with LILCO and it is based on a knowledge cf 4 Shoreham over many, many years. 5 We have had so many years of hearings revolving 6 around LILCO that I suspect that you cannot begin to 7 imagine. I have been coming to them for 13 years, long 8 before I was elected to the Assembly. 9 So the people of Long Island understand very to well what they are talking about and understand beyond is the known dangers of nuclear power what it means to deal 12 with the current situation and they have. good reason to 13 be suspect of this plant for a number of reasons. 34 We have been penalized over the years. It is 15 bad enough that we have been penalized by having the second n3 or third highest electric rates in the United States and 3
; 17 a good part of them because of Shoreham, but beyond that
; H3 the fact remains that were Shoreham a sensible project and I
g 39 had Shoreham been a needed project and where the nuclear i 20 p w r involved, as Dr. Nickland had just stated, safe and l sure, that would be one thing. f 21 r i 22 But the facts are different, and I just really 23 have three things to say. .f g We on Long Island know that Shoreham, No. 1, 25 should never have been built. You have heard from a l l l l l 1
- - . - . _ . . - = .- - . .- - .-.
~17,041 '
Sim 2-30
! I businessman and an economist the statistics and facts that 2 show that we did not need Shoreham.
Os 3 And I would_suggest to you most respectfully 4 that you should never.have even'given a partial license for i 5 power testing or operation to Shoreham. } 6 The flaws in construction that have come up i 7 in Shoreham repeatedly are documented. They are not the i a result of an emotional response of the public. ) 9 The cost overruns all speak to gross mismanage-l to ment on the part of the company that has built and planned i j 11 this project which has become not a white elephant but I 12 a very dangerous time bomb confronting the people of Long ' 13 Island. .I U 14 I would again suggest to you that this l f 15 mismanagement and the poor history of construction process
! 16 with this plant ought to give you pause as well as the 1 :
17 question of evacuation because even if one could evacuate ' 1
! f ; 18 a plant that appears to have hhd so many flaws in construc-j g is tion, you are dealing with a potentially dangerous weapon
! la 20 as far as I am concerned and not just a plant. d secondly, not to belabor the issue, it is f t 21
! 3 r Patently obvious to anyone who has ever lived or driven l 22 ; 23 on Long Island that you cannot evacuate Long Island. You i
! 24 hcve heard it a hundred times in these three days and it i J j 25 has been trivialized into a joke of saying you can't even i l i i l ! l
17,042 Sim 2-31 -1 evacuate Long Island on the 4th of July weekend. That is l 2 a' truth, unfortuna tely. 3 Our area,.and I think.you know it, has exploded 4 4 more rapidly than any. area-in terms of population and 5 business in'the country in the last few years. Our highways 6 and our transportation systems did not anticipate that 7 kind of growth. We cannot deal with the normal emergencies. 8 And I would suggest to you when you have heard g testimony from school districts saying'we are not going 4 10 to use our buses, I want you not to judge these reactions
- 33 as coming from people who do not want.in'an emergency. That 4
l 12 is not true, i 13 The people on Long Island would stand ready 4. 1 i4 to assist any of their neighbors in Suffolk, in Nassau, 4 I 15 anywhere in the event of a true unavoidable catastrophy. J ni We have always done so and we would continue to do so. 1 3 j j7 But this is an emergency waiting to happen, and 1 :
; ng I don't think that that should be foisted on the people 1.
j 19. of this island. l- 3 ! 20 And not with LILCO's plan and not with the best i d 21 f-any g vernment could you evacuate Long Island. t :
~
j E 22 And, lastly, I don't want to again repeat the i j 23 statements about Chernobyl. We know them. I think what 24 we need to look at in terms of Chernoybl is, as the last f 25 speaker said, we are trapped on a little small piece of
17,043 Sim'2-32 1 land here. I don't know how you would evacuate. Would 2 you have a Dunkirk? If you couldn't get people off the 3 roads, I don't know what you would expect to do. 4 And my most serious question is why? Why would 5 you subject the people of this island or any place to an 6 unnecessary irrational risk? And that is the best I can 7 say about it. If we were in desperate need of this plant 8 maybe people would have struggled to find some way to I 9 make it better. We are not. We didn't need it. It is 10 based on an uncertain source of power in terms of safety. 11 in the worse possible place in which you can put it. 12 I would say that I have to be convinced that 13 you as responsible public officials will r6spond in what 14 I think is the only possible way based on logic, based
- 15 on concern for the safety of these citizens and based on, 16 if you want, not even to think about that on the economic f a 17 viability of this area.
5 18 But far more important is you have heard the' C j 19 voice of the people involved and the people who are a l 8 20 paying for this plant that they never wanted, and who have ; i d paid for it in their rates over 10 or 11 years and who 21 I will be the' victims of what could well happen ~if this 22 . 23 flawed plant and this,-I think, totally idiot idea of 3 evacuation ever came to be. 25 I urge you to take all of the components
17,044 Sim 2-33 into consideration, the most important of which I think, and I am sure you will agree, is the safety of the people
. ./ here.
3 And I urge you not to grant this license application. Thank you. 6 (Applause.) end Sim 7 Sue fols 8 9 10 11 12 13 ,r \_) 14 15 16
! 17 2
g 18 j 19 N
,i 20 4
21 l { l 22 23 24 25
17,045 l
,#3-1-SueW l JUDGE MARGULIES: John Parsillico. l 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i
3 OF 4 JOHN PARSILLICO 5 MR. PARSILLICO: I would first like to thank the t 6 Commission for the opportunity to offer my opinion in a 7 public hearing on one of the most important issues facing 1 8 Long Island residents today. i 9 I have a written statement here, and I will be 10 glad to give copies of it to the press when I'm done. I'm 11 l not going to read from it for a moment here. l
. 12 ' There are some facts in here, there are some 13 obvservations, regardless of your viewpoints with respect to 14 Shoreham that I think should be taken into consideration.
15 Before I do express my views, however, I feel that it would 16 i be helpf.1 and appropriate to outline my own background. i l'7 For nearly 10 years now, I have been a management
~
18 consultant to the nuclear power industry in phases ranging 19 from site selection, design,. construction, testing, backfit,. 20 to the actual licensing and operation of light water reactors. 21 In that time, I have assisted clients with plants located 22 in Connecticut, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, New Jersey, 23 Washington, Texas and Mexico. 24 Although born and raised on Long Island, I've i ANFederal Reporters, Inc, 25 never been involved in any phase of the Shoreham facility.
17,046
,#3-2-SueW 1 In fact, due to personal reasons I have only recently taken 2 leave of my consulting assignments and returned to Long 3 Island.
4 In that time, I've been following events shaping 5 the future of Shoreham and Long Island Lighting in the local 6 media. I can only say that I'm both saddened'and sickened 7 by the wasteful and unprecedented political grandstanding 8 that has accompanied the licensing of this power station. The 9 future of this facility and, indeed, the future of LILCO 10 confronts today's Long Islanders with one of the most critical 11 decisions they have to make in this century. And, they i
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12 1 deserve the opportunity to make this decision in the absence 13 of self-serving politicians who, by hogging the media in 14 this election year, have clouded the issues and obscured the 15 opinions of experts on both sides. 16 There will be a price to pay for this confusion, 17 and when the dust finally settles these same politicians, 18 while enjoying their spoils in greener pastures, the ultimate 19 ' burden of these mistakes will rest on the shoulders of an 20 already overtaxed population. 21 I have not come here today to further confuse 22l the issue or to be set up as-another-expert. There are-23 enough knowledgable people, more experienced than I, at the 24 disposal of the citizens. The point'is that the views of 9-ewere Reporteri inc. .1 ! 25 these experts on both sides are not.getting through to the l l l l
17,047 sf/3-3-SueW 1 people who would be most affected. My intent then~is to clear ('# 2 away these clouds of confusion and expose some of the myths 3 that I feel are being perpetrated by individuals of questionable 4 intentions. 5 Since the Commission is looking for opinions on 6 the evacuation plan and the ultimate licensing of this facility, 7 I hope that these facts receive the attention that they deserve 8 in the media. 9 It's certainly important to weight the risks of the 10 plan itself. But, I will get to that a little later. First 11 of all, let's look at the issue of the evacuation plan itself. 12 I don't think that anyone in this room would argue that in 13 order to deterrine the feasibility of any plan that some sort 14 of rehearsal or drill is necessary to test the theory, regard-15 less of what we might think out of hand. 16 , Now, Governor Cuomo, Executive Cohalan and others l 17 have labeled LILCO's drills as a sham. These same people 18 purposely withheld the use of their publicly-paid officials 19 in these studies as if participation in. emergency should be 20 optional. So, if the plan is unworkable the sham, if you will, 21 then Governor Cuomo and Executive Cohalan are greatly responsi-22 ble for helping fabricate it. What are they afraid of, that 23 it might eventually yield a workable situation and, therefore, 24 eliminate an excuse for their popular stand or possibly held 9Federat A Reporters, Inc. 25 us with some other type of emergency that might exist on Long
17,048 3-4-SueW l Island? We have only experience to gain by it. 2 The Commission itself has admitted, off the record, 3 that this type of opposition is political and not technically 4 based. Some people might argue, why does someone like Mario S Cuomo need an excuse to oppose Shoreham? Why would he need 6 to claim to any excuse? 7 Certainly, the Governor of New York should be able 8 to oppose a nuclear power station out of concern for the 9 citizens' safety, its economics, or even for philosophical 10 reasons. Well, how can the Governor of New York State take 11 , any of these stances when he allowes two nuclear power plants 12 to be operated by the Power Authority of the State of New
, 13 f York less than 20 miles from the edge of New York City? Yes, 0
14 i and 40 miles from this very room, about the same distance as d 15 from here to Shoreham. 16 ; Even the Commission will agree that those two i 17 l plants were built under far less stringent safety regulations. i 18 Talk about evacuation problems, people cannot even get home 19 ! from their jobs in an orderly fashion. The Governor and other 20 critics speculate about the possible panic during a Long Island 21 evacuation. 22 Could you imagine, if you will, an evacuation of 23 both New York and Long Island at the same time? Is it 8 24 At=-sederal Reporters, Inc. possible that these same critics who are so concerned about 25 our safety here on Long Island are less concerned with the l
17,049 3-5-SueW l safety of New York City inhabitants? 2 Is it possible that an already strong standing 3 among those voters warrants less than a concern for their 4 safety? I truly hate to believe that anyone could be motivated 5 in that fashion, that their consciences could be a matter of 6 political convenience, but it must make you wonder. 7 While I'm on the topic of concern for city residents, 8 is the concern for the safety of us Long Island residents really 9 genuine? Maybe some people here in this room, or other Long 10 Islanders, don't know that there are four other operating 11 nuclear power plants located in a small radius of just 50 12 miles from the heart of Long Island, in Connecticut. Now, (_) 13 three of these units lie approximately seven miles from the i i 14 , Long Island shores, seven miles. I 15 I live on the North Shore, so I know that it's not i I 16 i uncommon to get winds of 20 to 30 knots out of the northeast. l 17 That means that in less than 20 minutes, these same Shoreham-type 18 of accidental atmospheric releases, of which the Governor and 19 the Suffolk Executive are so concerned, would be blowing across l 20 the Long Island. 21 Now, wouldn't that be enough of a reason, Governor 22 Cuomo and Executive Cohalan, to have allowed State public 23 officials to have participated in the drill? Is emergency l 24 preparedness the type that governments and private sectors A
#ederaf Reporters, j Inc.
25 practice in other states that bad a thing?
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1 l 17,050 l l SueW 1 These plants are all operating. And, for the most 2 part they have been built under less stringent safety require-3 ments than Shoreham. I'm not saying these plants are not safe, 4 but they certainly have not been built under the same strict 5 scrutiny as Shoreham. Any Long Islander will then ask: Well, 6 what am I to do? That's in another state. 7 I'm not suggesting that a resident should do some-8 thing, or that it would even be that person's job to know about 9 such things. But, it is the job of our elected officials to 10 know these things. Just earlier this year, the latest of these plants 11 l 12 ! operating in Connecticut just seven miles off our shore, the ("3 ' (_) 13 Millstone 3 Unit, was granted its full power operating license. 14 ; That is a federally licensed facility, as is Shoreham. During II 15 lI the licensing process', not one elected official or their l 16 ! representative from the State of New York ever voiced a concern i 17 ' over the operation of that facility, not one. 18 If Governor Cuomo and Executive Cohalan are'truly 19 concerned about the safety of Long Islanders, then why didn't 20 they officially voice their opposition to the opening of this 21 Connecticut plant on the same grounds that they oppose Shoreham? 22 How long has Shoreham been a concern in this state? And, how 23 . difficult is it to imagine, as I described the close proximity N 24 iof this plant, that one should have the same fears concerning-9eceral Reporters, Inc. A l 25 Millstone's operation as for Shoreham, whatever those fears are?
17,051 l Is it because there is no advantage to this vote-gettin
, - J3-7-SueW I t
2 in Connecticut? Why was it so difficult for the Governor and 3 Suffolk Executive to see this connection? Can't they read 4 maps? 5 I'm only led to believe that if the smart politician 6 today wants to take a popular opposing viewpoint to Shoreham 7 with concerns for his own political safety, he chooses strategic 8 obstacles cited by others such as this evacuation issue and fan 9 the flames of that diversion from a comfortable distance. At 10 this point in my statement, there are those who would believe i 11 I i that I am one of those few nuclear hard liners that is still
)
12 j in favor of opening Shoreham. Let me assure you by the rest 0 I 13 h of my statement that I am not.
'l 14 0 I will not argue that there aren't any risks n
i 15 , associated with this plan. And, there is far enough expert 16 opinion available on those risks. As I said earlier, I have 17 [ not come as an expert but as someone begging for common sense 18 in this issue. 19 These plants that I spoke of earlier in Connecticut 20 received little news coverage, because they usually tend to 21 run without incident. The people of that state have weighed 22 the risks and the economic or commercial benefits of those 1 23 risks and have accepted the conditions as a fact of their 24 lives. So, now and in the years to come they will enjoy those Am-Feeraf Reporters, lnc. ; 25 benefits, but we on Long Island will be sharing in those risks I l
17,052 ,mq3-8-SueW 1 without benefit. 2 What about the economical side of this issue? For 3 probably the same reasons, there are also those politicians 4 who dangle another tempting carrot in front c ' the voters this 5 year, that somehow if Shoreham was not allowed to operate we 6 won't have to pay for it. Please let us not be deluded by the 7 hairbrain public take-over schemes or talk of bankrupting 8 l LILCo. I 9 These ideas are put forth by people who are either 10 naive or have something to gain. And, they are executed by con. I 11 j artists who excel in stealing from the future. i 12 ! There are merchant bankers on Wall Street -- we know 13 I who they arc. They say they like to earn their living the 14 hard way, with visions of fat fees in their head who suggest 150 a that we float bonds in order to buy this ailing utility and f 16 ' close shoreham down, and that we should do it ever so quickly 3 17 without further notice, for tax reasons, you know. 18 l This new entity is supposed to pay these bonds off n, , 19 0 and carry the billions of dollars in debt and quickly run a 20 modern, efficient new agency. 21 In my last few paragraphs here in closing, I would 22 l!like to sum up what I feel the Commission might be able to do 23 , in helping us. Back in the 60s when LILCO began planning l RFederal Reporters, Inc.24 lA Shoreham for its future energy needs, the idea of energy so 25 cheap that it wouldn't have to be metered was almost still fresh
17,053 SueW l in people's minds. 2 In accordance with the charter that LILCO has with 3 New York State, it pursued that physical plant expansion in 4 the interest of Long Island's future. And, when that plant 5 was completed and operating, they would receive a reasonable 6 return for its cost. These utilities in the United States, 7 who have successfully operated for more than 80 years, did not 8 wake up one morning and find themselves incompetent. The 9 complexity of dealing with the rapidly changing requirements i 10 ' as we grew smarter about safety just simply rose past the 11 abilities of these ordinary people. i 12 '. By virtue of this charter, New York State has been ! ) (/ 13 h a party to this power station. We are not alone in the problem. ll 14 l It has happened all over the country. And, we are not going d 15 ' to solve it by robbing the investors who have supplied us with 16 power for all these years or overrunning a functioning utility. i 17 l A successful take-over of a utility has not happened 18 in this country since 1923. And, if anyone wants to know the 19 I dangers facing a current day municipal power agency, there are 20 many examples. One of the most glaring is the Washington Public 21 Power Supply System. Their bond default threaten the entire 22 bond. market, and they are left today with over 20 billion dollars 23 of rusting idle power plants in the hills of Washington.
- 24 Ass-Federal R eporters, Inc.
I ask that my fellow residents do not succumb to 25 these dillusions, because there will be no free lunch. The
l 17,054
- r. #3-10-SueW1 burden of the cost of shoreham will ultimately come from the (J 2 consumers' pocket whether or not it is allowed to operate. And, 3 in the final analysis it is simply a matter of math.
4 In fact, every dollar that is being spent in this 5 battle now,.on either side, is coming out of the same taxpayer's 6 pocket. Any of these popular fixes that leave us with a crippled 7 utility result in serious damage to the future borrowing power 8 of Nassau and Suffolk County, would saddle us with yet another 9 ill-conceived, debt-laden municipal agency. 10 In conclusion, I. offer these suggestions for the 11 Commission. It is important that the people who have to live 12 lihere on-Long Island ultimately make the decision regarding 13 the licensing of Shoreham, not someone in Albany or Washington 14 f or on Wall Street. And, if they understand the ramifications i 15 l of closing Shoreham it's opening shouldn't be forced down their i 16 l throat. 17 In order to make such a decision,.however, they must 18 be properly informed.--a task at which our elected officials 19 have failed miserably. Some of the money that has been wasted a 20 in this senseless battle should be'better spent on two short 21 concise white papers prepared by responsible experts of the 22 opposing viewpoint and distributed to'the residents. 23 And, the residents should have the opportunity in ( 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. a referendem or other meaningful mechanism to send an answer to ! 25 our elected officials. My concern is that we not be lied about 1
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17,055 r concerning the realizations we must face if we decide So close U93-ll-SueW1the 2 plant. Firstly, that we cannot eventually escape the 3 lion's share of the cost regardl~ss e of which way we choose. 4 Secondly, that a municipal agency is just another inefficient i 5 attempt at pouring more bureaucracy on the problem at the 6 taxpayers' expense. Thirdly, that we will face power shortage 7 within the next decade or two, and it will-have to be replaced 8 by some other means. Fourth, that we will continue to live 9 in the shadow of these six other operating plants and bear 10 the risks of that. Fifth, finally if we accept these facts and 4 11 are willing to decide that the risks are not worth it and that 4 12 the buck has to stop somewhere, and we should close the facility , f( 13 we should be applauded for the courage that it takes to face 14 the problems that lie ahead. 15 With the Commission's help, maybe we on Long Island 16 can get the politicians' hands out of our pockets, their eyes l'7 off their political ambitions, and their minds back on helping 18 us out on this long road to a difficult. solution. 19 Thank you. 20 (Applause.) 21 MS. NEWBERGER: Mr. Chairman, I 'have never done this 22 at a public hearing, but I really must rise on a point of 4 23 personal privilege -- I 24 JUDGE MARGULIES: You are out of order, ma'am. Ace Federal Reportcrs, Inc.
- 25 MS. NEWBERGER: I wish to say I am -- I am Assemblywome o
,,n .. --- , -- ,,-..w- ,-.- , - . - . - +.,-r e-m- w w
17,056 SueW i Newberger, and I wish to say for this gentleman's information I 2 am not running for reelection. I am not running again for 3 office. And, I did not stand here for any political purpose. 4 There is no political gain in it for me. And, I do 5 not believe that either my colleagues or any of the candidates 6 I know of,.of either party, have concerned themselves about 7 this issue for any reason other than the fact that they live 8 here and represent the people here and care about the future 9 and the safety of this Island and the economic and environmental 10 and public viability of it. 11 And, I think that's true of our Governor. If Mr. -- 12 I don't know your name, but if this gentleman thinks that it (,) 13 was an easy political decision for Governor Cuomo he knows very 14 : little about politics. It was a decision based on -- i 15 (Applause.) I l 16 j MS. NEWBERGER: -- the concern for the people of I 17 ! this State. 18 (Applause.) 19 MR. PARSILLICO: Your Honor -- 20 JUDGE MARGULIES: We are not engaged in a debate 21 here. We are trying to give as many of you as possible an 22 opportunity to present your views. 23 Your views have been presented. 8 24 Am-Federal Reporters, Inc. MR. PARSILLICO: I just wanted to say that I did not 25 intend to offend any politicians, and that those people that --
17,057 SueW 1 FROM THE FLOOR: You offended the people. 2 MR. PARSILLICO: Thank you. 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Assemblyman Paul Harenberg. 4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5 OF 6 PAUL HARENBERG 7 MR. HARENBERG: Thank you, gentlemen. My name is 8 Paul Harenberg. And, I represent the Fifth District of the 9 New York Assembly. And, I guess I am the author of that hair-10 brain scheme that you just heard described, to take over LILCO 11 and close down Shoreham. 12 First, let'me thank you for coming here to Long r'3 ! (_) 13 ll Island, however late it is, to provide the people of our Island, it 14 who have the most at stake really in this whole situation, with 15 an opportunity to address you about their concerns relating to 16 the future of their own Island. No one, not LILCO or anyone 17 felse, could manage a safe evacuation of the public if an accident 18 were to happen at Shoreham. 19 ' Long Island's geography and its population make 20 that a certainty. Last Sunday's "Newsday" included a poll 21 which showed that 1.6 million people on Long Island would 22 attempt to flee from Long Island if a Shoreham accident occur-23 red. Those people would get no further than their cars, stuck 24 in traffic like most of us get stuck everyday. I got stuck in 9-Federaf Reporters, A Inc. 25 it on my way here today again.
17,058 1
.s s#3-14-SueW1 Some people would become aggressive, others violent.
2 They would freeze, others would panic. The overall result 3 would be a severe tragedy, a big tragedy. In fact, it would 4 be the biggest tragedy that this nation has ever seen. 5 What's the point of licensing Shoreham with this 6 certain knowledge? What is the benefit to anyone of sentencing 7 Long Island residents to a life of fearing Shoreham's danger 8 and knowing that if a possible accident were to happen they 9 would be doomed? The case of Chernobyl was not expected, but 10 it still happened anyway. 11 And, Chernobyl.provided a message and a lesson for 12 all of us about Shoreham. It is a lesson for this Board and (O _/ 13 for the whole federal establishment which seems so remote to 14 , us when we look from Long Island. It is a lesson for them to i 15 ' study carefully. It is a lesson which Governor Cuomo, as well 1-6 as the State and County Legislators, have already learned quite 17 well. 18 In October 1984, President Reagan promised that-the 19 federal government would not impose Shoreham on the public of 20 Long Island over the objections of New York State and Suffolk 21 County. The people of Long Island expecs the federal govern-22 ment will keep its promise. And, we expect this Licensing Board 23 to recognize that the actions of Suffolk County and of New 24 York State concerning Shoreham are not only responsible in the 9A -Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 best sense of democratic government but they are actions in
17,059
%#3-15-SueW 1 which the federal government should concur and support.
i (v ) 2 If it does not, then we ask whatever has happened 3 to the principle of cooperative federalism and to the 4 constitutional rights of the state? 5 This year, the New York State Legislators, Democrats 6 and Republicans alike, from Montauk to Buffalo, voted for, and 7 passed, legislation which I authored, creating the Long Island 8 Power Authority, and Governor Cuomo recently signed this 9 measure into law. The Long Island Power Authority has been 10 given the charge to acquire LILCO and to permanently close 11 Shoreham as a nuclear facility. 12 The Long Island Power Authority is also forbidden
~
s) 13 to ever again attempt to build a nuclear facility on this 14 crowded, narrow, long island of ours.- 15 (Applause.)
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16 MR. HARENBERG: The State and its political sub-17 divisions have the responsibility to provide for'the public 18 safety. After careful study, they have concluded that they 19 cannot fulfill this responsibility due to the impossibility of 20 an evacuation in the event of a nuclear accident. 21 This Board must not allow Shoreham to operate in 22 an area whose geography and population are so clearly preclud-23 ing a safe evacuation. We demand that another FEMA drill and a l 24 new set of public hearings be held to consider LILCO's new,
.oere neportm, Inc.
25 absurd proposal to now use its headquarters at Hicksville and l
17,060 SueW l Bellmore as an evacuation relocation center for decontamination. 2 The scheme gets wilder and wilder as it continues. 3 We think this needs to be considered as part of a 4 new FEMA drill and part of a new set of public hearings. 5 Shoreham just should never operate. It should be closed down 6 now, because nothing would justify such an extreme threat to 7 the public safety. 8 The people of Long Island look to this Licensing 9 Board for a truthful end to the Shoreham mess. The people 10 ; deserve an NRC decision that for once takes their views into 11 consideration and puts aside the NRC's well known predilection i 12 i towards advocacy of nuclear power and accommodation of (m n . \ _) 13 utilities.
!i la I ask that this Board not permit Shoreham to 15 operate. Thank you.
16 ! (Applause.) 17 , JUDGE MARGULIES: Walter Pietsch. 18 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 19 i OF l i 20 WALTER PIETSCH l 21 MR. PIETSCH: Gentlemen, I am with ARISE, a newly 22 formed organization on Long Island, i 23 About a month ago, on August 2nd, we participated 8 24 Aw-rederal Reporters, Inc. with the Catholic Peach Fellowship in a celebration of life 25 festival at Shoreham. In so doing, we committed ourselves to
17,061 SueW l life and symbolically closed Shoreham which symbolizes death 2 to human beings and to the environment via nuclear waste, 3 accidents, et cetera. 4 It's not necessary to have a Chernobyl in the 5 United States, though we have had our Three Mile Island and 6 numerous other accidents as well as our Bhopal in India. 7 If the United States government is nervous about 8l the potential danger to residents of Florida and beyond from 9 the installation of nuclear reactors in Cuba, which is 90 miles 10 away at the nearest point, how can it with equanimity even 11 f consider opening Shoreham, which is that distance and less l 12 ! from tens of millions of people in the New York metropolitan
,~ t i '
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!J 13 ' area? 14 The talk of an evacuation plan is absurd. Every I 0 ' 15 i Long Islander knows there is no escape in the event of a l 16 f nuclear accident. Moreover, where would the millions of us relocate to escape the effects of long-term radiation? And, 17 l 18 why should we risk further increase in our already high ratio 19 of cancer incidence as well as the destruction of our environ-20 ment? 21 No. We, in ARISE, demand that Shoreham be closed 22 permanently. Mr. Catacosinos and his predecessors at LILCO 23 must be stripped of their outrageous salaries and benefits and /~'s : l / 24 ' LILCO must be converted to a public entity to be run jointly AceIFederal Reporters. Inc. 25 by employees and consumer representatives.
l 17,062
#3-18-SueWI Under the U.S. Constitu' tion, Amendments IX and X, i 2 powers not delegated to the government are reserved to the l 3 people. The power to destroy Long Island is.not uelegated to 4 the federal government.
5 Therefore, we demand you abide by the supreme law 6 of the land, our Constitution, and order that Shoreham be i 7 closed. 8 Thank you. 9 (Applause.) . 10 JUDGE MARGULIES: We will take two more speakers 11 before the luncheon break. 12 We have Mr. Jeffrey Moore, representing Congressman 13 Thomas S. Downey. 14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT I 15 j OF 16 HONORABLE THOMAS J. DONNEY 17 GIVEN BY JEFFREY MOORE 18 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Mr.. Chairman. I know I 19 speak for the Congressman when I thank you for this opportunity 20 to address this hearing. Since the Congressman must be in 21 Washington this morning, he has asked that I share this. state-22 ment with you. 23 Copies of the statement are available on the table 8 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. by the side, and I would request that it be sub'mitted into the 25 record.
17,063 SueW 1 Mr. Chairman, I regret that I am unable to attend 2 these public hearings but the House of Representatives is in 3 session today and I must remain in Washington. 4 I am grateful for the opportunity to submit this 5 statement for the record. 6 On April 15th, 1986, I wrote to General Julius W. 7 Becton, Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, 8 with regard to the resignation of Mr. Frank Petrone. In 9 that letter, in which I was joined by my colleague, Congressman 10 Mrazek, I stated my concern that there were no public hearings 11 scheduled on Long Island. I urged FEMA to hold such meetings' 12 , so that the people of Long Island could make their voices t' l. 4
\_ ' 13 l! heard in the evaluation of the February drill and the licensing 14 process.
i 15 Although FEMA did not hold any public hearings, I am 16 glad to see that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 17 j finally decided that the people have a right to be heard. Mr. Chairman, we have been over this ground often. 18 l : I 19 The issues are clear. The paramount concern for the elected 20 officials of Long Island is public health and safety. 21 Can we be sure that in the event of an accident at 22 Shoreham the public will be able to be evacuated safety and 23 quickly from the area around Shoreham? The nuclear accident 24 in Chernobyl raises serious questions about all previous plans, l 9F;deral A Reporters, Inc. 25 because it demonstrates that the area affected by radiation is l
17,064 e_#3-20-SueW 1 much larger than had previously been assumed. 7_
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2 In light of Chernobyl, it is clear to me that the 3 Shoreham plant should not open. 4 Long Island needs to have a reliable supply of 5 energy if its economy is to continue to grow. But, Long 6 Islanders should not be forced to sacrifice their health and 7 the health of future generations to attain this goal. Since 8 1983, I have participated in a series of Congressional 9 hearings -- indeed the first hearing in 1983 was right here K) , on Long Island -- at which Long Islanders' concerns about the 11 possibility of safely responding to an accident were raised 12 time and again. 13 Unfortunately, the NRC has continued to push ahead 14 ' with the licensing process. 15 Mr. Chairman, as a Member of Congress, I am deeply 16 disturbed by the repeated failure of the NRC to take into i 17 l account the views of officials from the State of New York 18 and from Suffolk County. They have recognized the reality 19 of the situation and have not participated in the development 20 and testing of an emergency response plan. I can see no 21 reason that can justify ignoring their position. 22 In the past three years, there have been several 23 opportunities to halt the licensing process. Sadly, the NRC 24 has not taken advantage of them. A 9rmral Reporters, Inc. 25 For our sake and that of our children, I urge the
l 17,065 l SueW l Commissioners to listen carefully to what has been said during 2 these past three days. I urge the Commissioners not to grant 3 a license to Shoreham. 4 (Applause.) 5 JUDGE MARGULIES: Senator Carol Berman. 6 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 7 OF 8 CAROL BERMAN 9 MS. BERMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is 10 Carol Berman. I reside at 42 Lloyd Avenue, Lawrence. I 11 represented the 9th' Senate District in the New York State 12 Senate from 1978 to 1984. 13 And, I want to tell you that in that period I, along i 14 !j with other members of the Long Island Delegation, met every 15 lweek that we were in session on the subject of Shoreham under 16 ! the Chairmanship in the Senate of Owen Johnson and in the 17 Assembly of Assemblyman Angelo Arrousic. And, I want to tell 18 you that we examined every aspect of the Shoreham plant. 19 And, I deeply resent listening to Mr. Posillico 20 infer-that his judgment was in any way superior to the collective 21 judgment of 210 members of the New York State Legislature and 22 the Governor, who reluctantly came to the conclusion that the 23 Shoreham plant was unworkable and unmanageable. 8 24 Awiederal Reporters, Inc. 25 And, I'm here today to urge your panel to declare the Shoreham evacuation plan grossly deficient and literally
17,066
._#3-22-SueW 1 impossible to execute.
l < 2 I note that you are seeking input from the public 3 as to whether there are any flaws in this emergency plan. 4 Flaws is not the word. The key words here are " unworkable" 5 and " impossible" and " unthinkable." 6 I am going to cite five of the many reasons why 7 this plan cannot be carried out. First, I want you to know 8 that I personally witnessed the February Shoreham evacuation 9 drill. I was at the Nassau Veterans Coliseum and watched the 10 mock evacuees line up meekly for their decontamination role-play , 11 It was a joke. 12 The drill was profoundly ill-conceived and in no 13 way simulated the very real panic that would occur. It never 14 even simulated the evacuation of an Aplex movie theatre on a 15 Saturday night. Where were the people in wheelchairs? Where 16 ' were the disoriented 80-year olds? Where were the nursery 17 school children? 18 I raised many concerns to the Nassau County Board of 19 Supervisors af ter that evacuation. And, finally they agreed 20 to withdraw the Coliseum from the plan. And, the County has 21 eliminated the Coliseum. 22 And, this now constitutes the most obvious and i 23 glaring flaw in LILCO's plan. 1 24 Second, because of the vigorous opposition of oderal Reporters, Inc. 25 Suffolk County and of New York State and because of their
17,067
#3-23-SueW 1 refusal to participate in the drill, the NRC is obliged to 2 reject this plan. The absence of local and state involvement 3 2r the drill simply means that the public could not be ade-4 gsately protected and served in a real emergency.
5 The public deserves maximum protection at all times. 6 And the correct decision of the County and State to abstain 7 from the drill means that no LILCO executed evacuation could 8 provide the degree of protection that citizens deserve. 9 County and State non-participation translates into 10 a structurally inadequate and unworkable plan. 11 Finally, as you've heard before, the shadow effect 12 is real. Its existence was most recently substantiated by 13 "Newsday" poll results published on September 21st, 1986. U 14 ' And it remarkably shows that in a real emergency, Nassau t 15 County residents would ignore LILCO's assurances of safety in 16 greater percentage than Suffolk County residents. This clearly i shows the drill to be fatally inadequate because of the widely 17 l 18 underestimated number of evacuees. 19 Fourth, LILCO has now proposed that its own buildings 20 and facilities would serve as substitute locations for assembl-21 ing evacuees. This certainly cannot be taken seriously.- I 22 can tell you that no Long Islanders would run or drive to a 23 LILCO facility to gain safety unless they were going there to 8 24 A.. -pederal Reporters, Inc. 25 blow them up. Long Islanders would not do this. I have two LILCO l
17,068
- SueW 1 plans in my district, and I can assure you that they would not 2 be considered by the public. They would be the last place 3 they would go. So, I can tell you that no usable substitute 4 sites have been identified, nor do I believe they could ever 5 be identified.
6 Finally, the NRC, you have received strong pledges 7 of non-participation from the superintendents of fully 10 8 school districts in my 9th Senatorial District. They include 9 Dr. Bern Seiderman of the Lynbrook Schools; Dr. James Tolle 10 of the Malverne Schools; Dr. Robert Parry of the East Rockaway 11 Schools, Dr. Thomas J. Lee of the Valley Stream Schools 13 and 12 George W. Marr, Island Park Schools; Dr. Jerome Oberman, Long 13 Beach Schools; William J. Van Ness, Valley Stream Schools, h 14 ? District 30; Dr. Alvin P. Baron, Lawrence Schools; Dr. Richard L., 15 l' Varriale, West Hempstead Schools; Dr. Victor A. Lececese,Occean! 16 ! side Schools. 17 1; This not only means that their facilities are l unavailable to LILCO but also indicates the widespread, great 18 l 19 ' depth of local opposition to LILCO's impossible plan in my 20 area.. LILCO's evacuation plan must be rejected. 21 It is totally impracticable and unworkable. And 22 the degree of public cpposition and mistrust is far too high 23 to permit a safe evacuation ever to occur. In the aftermath
'l' 24 of Chernobyl, we now know the true magnitude of an evacuation Q3eral Reporters, Inc.
25 from a nuclear accident site.
_ . . _ _ ~ __ . _ . . . _ . _ __ _ _ _ . I 4 l 17,069 l j
#3-25-SueW j You must not have this on your conscience.
l 2 (Applause.) 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: We'will take one more speaker and i l 4 recess for lunch. I 5 Tom Denapoli. i i 6 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i j 7 'OF 8 THOMAS DENAPOLI 9 MR. DENAPOLI: Gentlemen, thank you for the l 10 Opportunity-to testify before you before the lunch break. My ] 11 name is Thomas Denapoli and I'm a life long resident of Nassau I 12 County. 1 13 My message to you is a simple one. A safe and y effective evacuation from Long. Island in the event of a 15 nuclear accident at the Shoreham facility is unworkable. The 16 LILCO plan to implement this is a total folly and cannot be l 17 taken seriously. l 18 LILCO lacks a demonstrated capability to implement.
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19 the reliable evacuation plan. There is an. absence of adequate
^
20 facilities to serve as evacuation and congregate care centers. 21 State and county governments, as well as school 22 districts, have maintained a resolute opposition to participa-23 tion in evacuation planning, or to allow their facilities t'o , i . be included in LILCO's plan. LILCO's own facilities ar'e [~I 24 (6)merat amorters, ine. ' 25 completely inadequate to meet this need. - l l . -!
. n s.
_ . _ . . _ . . _ _ . __ . . . _ . _. _ .-~ _ _ _ _ _ f 17,070
.~#3-26-SueW j And, it is impossible to imagine that in the event-
- os -,
2 of an accident at LILCO's Shoreham th'at'Long; Island evacuees 3 would have any notion of congregating in any facility even-I ' remotely connected with the utility. 4 'l 5 The impact'of the Chernobyl accident on the.public. 6 conscientiousness must not be underestimated. Recent polls 4 7 indicating an exodus of as much aus 62 percent of the Long 4 8 Island population in the event of a nuclear accident must be l taken seriously. It is clear that people.will flee from areas { 9 4 10 well beyond the.10-mile emergency zone. This has tremendous , jj implications for Nassau County. 12 Traffic congestion'on major roadways is already a 13 daily problem on this Island.. In the event of a nuclear ja emergency, traffic congestions would be an immediate nightmare i 15 and an impossible situation for LILCO's-employees to manage.or. 16 direct in any way. j7 LILCO has no credibility or authority to assume 18 Police powers in such a situation. 39 Let 'me say that LILCO's so-called realism argument - 20 is~not an acceptable one. A safe, efficient and effective 21 evacuation plan does not exist and cannot exist for Long Island. 22 LILCO's evacuation plan is totally unworkable and impossible 23 to implement, _ given the lack ofninvolvement on the part of i 24 State, County and local government entities that have wisely i ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 elected to refrain from this charade. . L 1
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4 5 17,071' i t i
#,3-2 7-SueW l' Thank you very much.
2 (Applause.) L I 3 JUDGE MARGULIES:- That concludes this morning's a u 4 session. We will recess until.1:30. i i 5 (Whereupon,!the hearing is recessed at 12:08, this' L i '6 same day, to resume at 1:30 p.m.) l 7 8 1 9 10 i 11 ; 12 i 13
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1 1 14 I 15 i i 16 i 17 , 1 l 18 i 1 19 r l 20 ; i
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, 25 i l l
17,072 n AFTERNOON SES.SION O.#3-28-SueW1 2 (1:30 p.m.) , 6 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Please come to order. We are 4 continuing with the five minute limited aopearance statements. 5 Jeff Newman. 6 FROM THE FLOOR: He will be back from lunch shortly. 7 No, here he is. , 8 JUDGE MARGULIES: Would you please step up and make 9 .your statement. Are you ready, Mr. Newman? 10 MR. NEWMAN: Yes.
, 11 ' LIMITED APPEARANCE-STATEMENT 12 OF 13 JEFF NEWMAN 14 MR. NEWMAN: Good morning, or good afternoon. .My i
, 15 ! name is Jeff Newman. I am a resident of Huntington in Suffolk, 16 l and I work in Nassau and New York' City. l 17 ; In May of 1984, the Long Island Ratepayers' Associa-4 l 18 tion organized hearings before the suffolk County Legislature
.19 on the findings of the Aamodt Study. This study looked at the 20- health effects of an accident at Three Mile Island on three
- 21 small areas, north by northwest of the plant. The Aamodt Study 22 found that the cancer rate in these three areas around the 23 plant was 700 percent higher than expected for this population.
i 24 The study showed 20 deaths where'three had been ederal Reporters, tric. 25 expected. Statistically, the expected number of deaths in this )
17,073 3-29-SueW i population would be 153 per 100 thousand. The rate found in 2 the study was 1,097 per hundred thousand. 3 There were those who challenged the study, arguing 4 that it was too small a sampling, that it wasn't scientifically 5 valid. But, we waited for a little while after the study to 6 find out what was happening down at Three Mile Island. We were 7 very interested, and the people from Three Mile Island had come 8 up here. Many of our Legislators from Suffolk had gone down 9 to Three Mile Island to see what was happening there, because 10 this was a native -- this was an American. tragedy. This was 11 an example of what could happen here in this country, not in 12 Russia. And we had to find out. And, we found out. 13 And I want to read to you the human quotient in what 14 we found out. These are the people -- not the people in the l 15 ' study but the people who lived downwind from the accident, along 16 the Susquehanna River, and it was an area whichhwas verified 17 by the Department of Energy when they did flights over this 18 area. And, they identified the center of the plume. 19 The plume that was released in the first hours and 20 subsequent plumes. These plumes drifted north and they followed -e 21 interestingly enough, they followed the Susquehanna River. I 22 want to read to you some of the -- the human fallout from the 23 release of radioactivity at the plant. 24 8.-ederal Reporters, m Inc.Letaretta and Thomas E. Hines at Lancaster. This 25 happened to be one, Lancaster, a plume which went south. She
17,074 l l
# 3-30-SueW - j suffered tumors in her back, and depression. Thelma G. and (h John J. Milkovitch, Middletown. She suffered skin cancer.
\J 2 Paul A. and Katherine M. Winlowski of Mechanicsburg, whose 3
son, Paul, suffered tumors in the chest and lymph tissue. 4 Robert and Elizabeth Dosho of New York, she suffered a liver 5
- tumor. Anna Comfort of Ionola, Administrator of the estate of 6
Lee F. Comfort, who had cancer of the lymph nodes and died in 7 October, 1982. Janice and Denise Lebo of Middletown, she had 8 a thyroid disorder that resulted in surgery. Matthew and Lee M. 9 10 Stosonick, Camp Hill. He suffered lung cancer. Catarina Fabian ij of Harrisburg, tumors. Herbert B. and Harriet Rushman of 12 Susquehanna Turnpike, he suffered bladder cancer. Stephen A. 13 and Darla M. Bruce, whose son, Michael, suffered.a malfunctioning ja j spleen. 15 I might add that not all of the health effects that i 16 ' resulted from this accident occurred or resulted in cancer. i 17 1 The vast majority of them though did result'in cancer and all 18 sorts of cancer, including leukemia. 19 I'm not going to read any more of this roll call. I i 20 think we all can -- we can all project from there. There are 21 today 2,000 suits which have been filed against General Public i 22 Utilities, and this Utility has settled 300 of those suits for 23 15 million dollars with the stipulation that none of these 24 People who receive awards will talk about it. They are not
#. Federal Reporters, tric.
25 allowed to discuss what happened to them as a result of the
-, ,r--- --- -- - - , -- - ~ - e . . -
17,075 e #3-31-SueW 1 accident. I I
~' So, what we are looking at is a native American 2
3 tragedy. We don't have.to look over at Chernobyl. We are 4 looking at thousands of cancers and other health effects at 5 Three Mile Island which have been covered up by the Nuclear 6 Regulatory Commission, by the Center for Disease Control, by 7 the State Health Department in Pennsylvania. But, it's coming 8 out. 9 All of these that I've read, and the other 2,000 -- 10 the total 2,000 are all on the public record. They have all 11 been printed in papers like "The Patriot" in Harrisburg, 12 Pennsylvania. So, this is not anybody's fantacy. This is no 13 l my opinion or your opinion. This is on the record. 14 ' These people live in the area downwind from the
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15 ' accident. These people are ill and dying. And there are I 16 thousands of them. i l 17 { And, I submit to this Board that we've had one 18 tragedy in this country. And I am putting this into the 19 record for your study. We don' t want a tragedy like that on 20 Long Island. 21 Maybe a lot of people didn't know very much before 22 Three Mile Island. Well, we know a hell of a lot now. And, 23 you have a human responsibility in addition to whatever dictates 8A Federal Reporters, Inc. 24 you have, whatever charge you have, from the Nuclear Regulatory 25 Commission.
17,076
,#3-32-SueW j You are fathers, you are grandfathers, you are
(._ ' uncles. There are children here; there are children at stake. 2 And, I think you have got a grave responsibility. And, you 3 should study these -- this morbidity and this mortality before 4 y u make your decisions. 5 Thank you. (Applause.) 7 JUDGE MARGULIES: Patricia Vunk. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE MARGULIES: Ralph Canoff. 10 11 (No response.) JUDGE MARGULIES: Sherry Trainer. 12 13
^ ^ b OF 14 SHERRY TRAINER 15 16 MS. TRAINER: Good afternoon, gentlemen. My name is Sherry Trainer. I'm the Director of Educational Services 37 f r the Education Department of the Bidaway Home. And, I 18 j9 thank you for allowing me to speak and comment on behalf of the Bidaway Home Association regarding LILCO's proposed 20 j emergency evacuation plan for Suffolk County,should there he a nuclear disaster at the ShorehamiNuclear Power. Plant.
22 23 Bidaway Home is a humane society whose constituency 24 numbers well over 60,000 people, many of whom reside in Nassau 8pederal Reporters, /% Inc. 25 and Suffolk Counties. We have three shelter and vetinary I
17,077 m#3-33-SueW l facilities, two of which are located on Long Island where,we t i
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2 care for.more than 30,000 dogs and cats every year. We also 3 have an Intensive Educational Services Department, in which we 4 supplement many elementary and secondary sch'ool curricula as 5 well as college curricula and offer many community and adult 6 education seminars. 7 A major part of our efforts are also directed 8 towards the human services through our pet facilitated therapy 9 programs that are conducted in various hospitals, nursing 10 facilities and psychiatric facilities throughout Long Island. 11 Bidaway's primary focus is concern for animals' 12 welfare as it relates to animals in our environment, animals 13 , raised for human consumption, and animals as family companions. I 14 ! The latter group is what I would like to address today. ! i I 15 ' It is estimated that there are approximately 130,000 16 ! people and 60,000 companion dogs and cats living with families l. 17 just within the 10-mile zone that is targeted for evacuation. 18 This figure does not include those animals that may be stained 19 or sterile, nor does it include those animals that are already 20 housed in the various shelters within this zone. 21 Tt is a verifiable fact that companion animals are 22 not only considered property having intrinsic value but also 23 occupy a social status and personal regard in the family that 24 can equal that of most family members. Within this context, 4-Federal Reporters, a Inc. 25 what provisions have been made for safe evacuation of these l l
17,078 43-34-SueW 1 animals? Has space been set aside in the proposed LILCO O 2 facilities designated as relocation centers for Nassau County? 3 Have provisions been made in the already over-burdened 4 municipal and town shelters in Nassau County to receive and be 5 legally liable for these thousands of owned animals? 6 Or, is it expected that these cherished, family 7 pets be abandoned in Suffolk County and allowed to suffer the 8 obvious consequences? 9 In the latter case, I can tell you that either one 10 of two things will happen. One, either families will refuse 11 to leave their pets behind and, therefore, will refuse to be 12 evacuated. And I think this situation was very clearly evident () 13 to many of us here during the recent hurricane threat of 14 Hurricane Gloria. Or, if that is not the case, there will be 15 an increasing problem of animals crossing over into Nassau 16 County which may result in a concomitant number of animal bites 17 from potentially contaminated animals. 18 All of this is, to say, very little of the untold 19 cruelty, neglect and disregard that these domestic animals will 20 suffer. On behalf of the pet-owning population of Nassau and 21 Suffolk Counties, and the concerned citizens fut anitual welfare, 22 I implore you to strongly consider the consequences of LILCO 23 not providing these very necessary provisions in their evacuatio n 24 plan and A
- 9. oderal Reporters, Inc.to insure that revised plans include provisionsfor 25 evacuation, decontamination and temporary sheltering for
17,079 c.. #3-35-SueW1 companion animals.
)
2 Thank you for allowing me to speak today. 3 (Applause.) 4 JUDGE MARGULIES: Chris Pezzullo. 5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6 OF 7 CHRIS P'EZZULLO 8 MR. PEZZULLO: Good afternoon, representatives of 9 the NEC and concerned citizens. 10 My name is Chris Pezzullo, and I am a Nuclear 11 ! Issues Project Coordinator for the Stony Brook Chapter of 12 the New York Public Interest Research Group. As you may" 13 know, NYPIRG is New York State's largest private, not-for-14 1 profit research and advocacy organization. 15 0- More than 100 professional staff work with over 16 150,000 members in 25 offices located from western New York b
- l 17 f to eastern Long Island. Together, we conduct independent, i
18 i non-biased research and help shape public policy. 19 Environmental preservation, consumer protection, 20 energy, political reform, and social justice are NYPIRG's 21 principal areas of concern. 22 I would like to speak to you today specifically 23 about the mock evacuation of February 13th, 1986, and generally 24 8ecerat Reporters, /w r about Inc. the Shoreham issue. As we know, many portions of the 25 evacuation drill have to be disregarded because they were
17,080
#3-36-SueW 1 eliminated in the partial testing.
9 2 But, most importantly, State and County officials 3 did not participate in this drill. For this reason, the test 4 was judged a failure by the Federal Emergency Management 5 Agency. It is also known that Frank Petrone, head of the 6 Federal Emergency Management Agency, was forced to resign 7 .because of his insistance that FEMA couldn't provide reasonable 8 assurance that the plan would protect the public. Despite 9 this, the NRC has deemed the plan adequate. 10 It is said that we should learn from our past 11 mistakes. In the licensing process of the Three Mile Island 12 Nuclear Power Plant, public officials did not participate in p ( ;l 13 an evacuation drill. Because of this lack of planning, proper I i 14 ; evacuation at the time of the disaster was impossible. I 15 ' For this reason, the NRC began to require evacuation 16 drills with state and local participation, until now. It is 17 alarming that the NRC has based its decision on hair-splitting 18 terms. 19 It feels that the plan was not flawed, because it 20 placed important responsibilites in the hands of LILCO, thus 21 it did not run counter to the emergency planning framework. 22 LILCO is relying on the safety of a 10-mile radius 23 evacuation area in the event of an emergency. It is' interest-24 ing to note that the Soviet Union required an 18.6-mile 0pedira' Reporters, /s. Inc. 25 evacuation radius for Chernobyl. And, furthermore, a 1982
17,081
. L#3-37-SueW I study for the NRC concluded that deaths from acute radiation 2 exposre within a year of a nuclear plant accident may occur 3 as far as 20 miles downwind.
4 And, insidiously, the American government told 5 Americans in the Soviet Union to evacuate from as far away 6 as Kiev, in effect, an 80-mile radius. While here on-Long 7 Island, we are only required to have a 10-mile radius. Are 8 Americans somehow more susceptible to radiation in the 9 Soviet Union, or are American lives less valuable on American 10 soil? II The fact is, no matter what the official evacuation 12 radius, Long Island could not be evacuated. On a normal day, 13 there are backups, if not complete standstills, on the high-Id
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ways. LILCO's plans call for an evacuation of only the 10-mile 15 radius. 16 However, a recent "Newsday" survey concluded that I7 in the event of an accident, 74 percent of Long Islanders will l 18 evacuate. I did a little homework', and I'm going to ask Rick 19 to bring up a chalkboard here. I looked up the combined 20 population of Nassau and Suffolk Counties, and it was 2,605,813. 21 Seventy-four percent of this would be 1,924,000. That's the 22 amount of people who would be evacuating Long Island. Dividing 3 23 by three for the three major highways, the Northern State, 24 Southern State and the LIE, is 641 , 333 perople per major ' A.W.o.r.i neporim, inc. 25 highway. Dividing by 10 for the approximate number of bridges
- _. - , . - _ _ _m.y _ _
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17,082
#3-38-Sueh to the outside world is 192,400 people per bridge. And, g
2 dividing by four for the approximate number of people per 3 car gives over 48,000 cars per bridge. Implausible at 4 best. 5 In closing, I would like to talk about something e 6 even more general than the Shoreham issue, democracy. The 7 UStandard College Dictionary" defines democracy as the spirit : 8 or practice of political, legal or social equality. 9 With the NRC's approval of the mock evaluation plan, 10 our democracy has been usurped. Over 70 percent of Long Island II ' residents oppose the opening of Shoreham. And with minor I exception, all of Long Island's elected officials oppose the 12 l 13 ! opening of Shoreham. Yet, the NRC and LILCO, in concert, O ' 14 l seem to be expending every effort to open Shoreham. 15 f This is an insult not only to the citizens of 16 Long Island but to our form of government. Democracy must 17 j not be a casualty of the nuclear industry. 18 ' Thank you. 19 ' (Applause.) 20 MR. PEZZULLO: I would also like to tell you that 21 I would like to submit a written copy of my testimony in 22 ; addition to my oral testimony and that printed copies are i 23 ; available for the media and anyone else. 8 24 l Am iederal Reporters, Inc. ' 25 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dorthet Vunk.
17,083 (4-39-SueW l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT r 2 OF 3 DORTHET VUNK 4 MS. VUNK: Dorthet. I want to thank you for hearing 5 us. And, I will tell you that I am a native of Long Island 6 presently living in Port Washington. 7 During inany emergencies, natural emergencies, LILCO 8 employees have done a first-rate job as far as they could go. 9 In almost every instance, people had to be called from Upstate 10 New York, from New Jersey and from Pennsylvania to help out 11 in trying to repair the difficulties of ice storms, hurricanes, 12 et cetera. 13 I would like to know how they could reach these 14 i people who would just leave, say, the safety of their own l 15 ! areas in Upstate New York and various other places to come 16 l into a contaminated area? 17 To date, my husband and I have raised three children 18 to be productive, law-abiding citizens, all the while reminding 19 them that their voices could make a difference. I most 20 respectfully submit that in the recent "Newsday" poll -- which, 21 "Newsday" is n'ot known as a very anti-Shoreham newspaper -- cays 22 that 74 percent laf the people of Long Island did not want
- 23 Shoreham.
24 9-F:deral Reporters, Inc.I would ask you gentlemen to be fair in your judgment 25 in this instance and, unlike what we hear about the U.S.S.R where L
I l 17,084 ,993-40-SueW l the people get no facts and no benefits of a fair hearing, that (,_) l 2 you will not allow Shoreham to open. 3 Thank you. 4 (Applause.) end #3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ,
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14 ( 15 ; 16 l t 17 1 l 18 19 20 21 22 23 8 24 Aw-Federal Reporters, Inc. 25
4-1-gjw 17,085 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: Rene Wayne?
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2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT , 3 OF 4 RENE MANE 5 MS. FmNE: Good afternoon. My name is Rene 6 Mane, and I am from Citizen Action. I live in Copiague,- i 7 which is in Suffolk County. 1 8 I know that you have heard a lot of statistics j 9 on how we cannot evacuate Long Island. You have heard J 10 that for years. { 11 People who live on Long Island know the realities. 12 How difficult it is to go from eastern Long Island to New l 13 York City on a usual business day. I 14 l What you may not have heard about rebuilt New l 15 ! York, right now Mario Cuomo, our Governor, has a program 16 going on where h'e is rebuilding the roads of Long Island. 17 Must of the Long Island Expressway is shut down in; the 18 evening, under construction. If there was ever an accident 19 during rebuild New York, not only would we have the usual 20 difficulties, but we would have the unusual difficulties i 71 of getting around largo conatruction equipmont, barracadoc, 22 et cetera. 23 Three Mile Island is a true indication of an 24 evacuation problem. The person in charge of evacuation in I ederaf Reporters, Inc. 25 that area testified in Suffolk County last year that in a
i 2-gjw 17,086 A 1 rural area people were practically killing each other to get /V ') 2 out of the area. 3 These are people who have lived together for 4 generations. People who are close friends. 5 Here cm Long Island, that kind of sense of kinship 6 and friendship isn't always prevelent in our communities. 7 I guarantee you that there would be serious problems in 8 people trying to get out of their homes, trying to get the 9 gas pumps, et cetera. 10 We understand -- we read in the paper every day II that Shoreham is the pinnicle cf the nuclear industry in 12 . America today. That if we lose the' fight, that tie nuclear 13 industry would consider it their success. 14 The problem that we feel is that we don' t want 15 to be an example forthe rest of the nation. We have a 16 unique problem here, and you have heard bipartisan support 17 from legislators, elected officials, community groups,'any 18 kind of group you can think of, you heard of their opposition 19 to the opening of the plant. 20 People work very hard for this. For many, many 21 yearn thoro aro hundrada, maybo thousands or people wno 22 have actively worked to oppose the plant, despite their 23 political alliances, despite what their occupations are. 24 And these people aren't going to give up, Your A. seres neponm. une. 25 Honor. LILCO has put up a terrific fight. They have had
4-3-gjw 17,087 e_ 1 the stock market and the business community on their side. 2 We have had a large part of the business community on our 3 side as well. 4 There are people who feel in their heart that they 5 will never, ever give up, and I truly hope that your 6 decision is in the best interest, or will be in consideration 7 of the best interest of the people of Long Island. 8 You have heard over and over that the majority 9 of the people do not want the plant to open. I think my 10 biggest concern is who is running our country? Is it the 11 people of our nation, or is it business? And that is a big 12 concern of mine. That the majority of the people could have 13 a specific wish, and yet it could possibly be overriden in 14 the interest of a business and a utility company. 15 I think it is very important to take that into 16 consideration. People movement throughout history have 17 never been able to be squashed forever. And as I said before, 18 Your Honor, we are not going to give up. 19 We feel our lives, our safety, our children, our 20 communities, our investments are at stake here, and we beg 21 of you to take our word inen rnnsidaration, and please vnta 22 for us. 23 Thank you. 24 (Applause.) 9raderal Reporters, Ac Inc. 25 JUGE MARGULIES: Susan Blake?
4-4-gjw 17,088
% 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT L ~
2 OF 3 SUSAN BLAKE 4 MS. BLAKE: Hi, I am Susan Blake, and I live at 5 1 South Coolidge Avenue, in Amityville, which is in 6 Suffolk County, and I coordiate an organization called 7 Peacenik in Nassau County. 8 We are seven hundred members, seven thousand 9 mailing list organization that is monitoring very carefully 10 what you are going to do with this proceeding. 11 ! We have been working against the opening of Shoreham , 12 ; for over ten years, and we are now just one of many, many 13 h groups that are doing that, and it is refreshing to be d u! working on something where you are really on the pulse 15 of what the people are feeling. It is a very unusual 16 sensation for me. I 17 . And it is public opinion and polular wisdom as 18 l you know, that an evacuation is ridiculous for Long Island, 19 and also the likeliLood of LILCO workers putting the general 20 welfare above the fam12y and personal immediate circle of 21 people above their own persont concerns is unlikely. 22 But I want to get at a more subtle part of this. I 23 And that is that I think it is also common sentiment that l 24 your Agency's possible lack of resolve to really execute the 0eWeral Reporters, As inc. ' ) 25 will of the people, and carry out your regulatory power
4-5-gjw 17,089 r, I as opposed to the interests of organized big business, will I L 2 reinforce our skepticism of government that many people 3 already have, and that skepticism will do anything but 4 systematically build the cooperative kind of effort that 5 is necessary. 6 A Government's responsibility should be to protect 7 people and enable ourselves to organize in a real emergency. 8 And I think that the kind of lack of faith in government 9 and its agencies, in facti only reinforcesxa dangerous 10 kind of survivalist mentality to protect one 's own, which 11 will be anything but a systematic real planning that an 12 agency like yours should be responsible for. 13 Last night I was on the phone with somebody from i 14 y New Hampshire who has opposed for a long time the Seabrook o 15 ? 1 plant, and now they are pressed as to what is going to happen i 16 ! next in the nuclear industry. He expects a lot of hope, that 17 they are just on the brink of maybe toppling a pro-nuclear 18 Governor in New Hampshire, and I think you have to be ahead 19 of that brink. 20 We have a dragon in its last throes, and you are 71 in tha posi tion tn provont it from lashing out with its 22 fire. 23 I want to say that in cooperation with the Coalitior. 24 for Safe Living, a group that we are a member of, I want to 9dederal Reporters, A Inc. 25 read into the record from yet another school district,
4-6-gjw 17,090
% 1 addressed to your body, from May 23rd: This is to inform 2 you that as an executive officer of Valley Stream Union-Free 3 School District 13 elementary school, I have not had the 4 opportunity to discuss with, nor gain approval, from the 5 Board of Education regarding the matter of congregate care 6 centers for evacuation in a Shoreham Nuclear Plant emergency.
7 Accordingly, please be advised that there is no 8 agreement between the Valley Stream Union-Free School District 9 13 and the American Red Cross or LILCO on this matter. 10 Should either of the two . organizations wish to II contact us regarding this matter, we would be pleased to 12 discuss it with them;and more recently, September 24th, in 13 a letter to the Coalition for Safe Living, a letter to I4 that Coalition: The State Supreme Court has ruled that 15 LILCO's emergency plan for Shoreham is illegal. The State 16 and Suf folk County have declined to implement any such plan i 17 for Shoreham. The Governor takesn the position that Shoreham 18 cannot, and should not, be licensed to operate. This school 19 district, as an arm of the Legislative Branch of the State 20 of- New York, feels itself bound by the decision of the 21 State Supreme Court and by the opinions of the Governor, 22 Accordingly, and in view of the above, this ! l 23 School District wants you to know that our agreement with 24 8.-ederal Reporters,the American Inc. Red Cross dated December 25, 1985, for the use Au 25 of our Wheeler Avenue School as a mass care shelter in case j f 1 i 1
4-7-gjw 17,091
- 1 of an emergency, does not apply to a radiological emergency 2 originating out of LILCO's facility at Shoreham.
3 Should such a disarter occur at any time in the 4 future, the Board of Education of this school district will 5 consider the request de nova at that time. 'Of course, with 6 the exception detailed above, our school facility stands 7 ready to assist in any, community emergency. 8 Finally, I just want to say that I think it is 9 uton you to call a new set of hearings, both a continuation 10 of this hearing which has been heard in Suffolk and apparently i 11 l here, not everybody is going to get to address you, and 12 ! as I understand it, you are technically addressing fundamental 13 . flaws in conditions prior to the February evacuation drill, ll 14 y and there are new sets of circumstances including letters i 15 like the one I just read with the school districts, and the 16 i Nassau County long overdue reversal on the use of the i 17 Colisium in the plan, so that I feel that both a continuation 18 l of this hearing, and a new set of hearings addressing those i 19 issues officially are to be your next task, and I appreciate 20 j that you are holding these hearings, and I hope it will i 21 lt continue, l 22 l Thank you. 23 ;I (Applause.) 24 ! JUDGE MARGULIES: George Getnick? Yetta Dober? 4ederal Reporters, Inc. A. i 25 i i
-- 4 -- 8 -g j w 17,092 1
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 OF 3 YETTA DOBER 4 .MS. DOBER: Hello ' gentlemen. Good afternoon. 5 I am -- my name is Yetta Dober. . I am from Greatneck, and 6 a constituent of Congressman Sche.uer. He regretted that' 7 he could not be here. in person, or -- am I heard all right? 8 JUDGE MARGULIES: We can hear you. 9 MS. DOBER:- Or his representative, so he dictated 10 to me and I would like to read his statement, if you please. 11 Congressman James Scheuer opposes the licensing 12 of the Shoreham plant, for there is no viable evacuation 13 plan in case of an accident. Accidents do happen. One i 14 only has to look at the recent accident of Three Mile Island ! 15 and Chernobyl. State and Local Officials of Nassau County 16 refuse to go along with an evacuation plan that will not i l 17 work, or cannot hope to work. 18 We must be concerned with the hundreds of 19 thousands of citizens in the vicinty of the Shoreham plant. 20 We cannot accept any half-baked evacuation plan when human 21 lives are concerned. 22 And that is the end of his statement. Thank you. 23 (Applause.)
- 24 JUDGE MARGULIES
- Judy Sanford Guise?
. Oroderal Reporters, Inc.
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4-9 17,093 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 OF 3 SANFORD JUDGE GUISE 4 MS. GUISE: Thank you very much. I am Judy 5 Sanford Guise, of North Valley Spring, Long Island, and 6 I am here in a number of capacities. 7 One, is as a candidate for the New York State 8i Assembly, and I mention that for two reasons: One, which i 9l is the original part I was going to say, as I am going 10 around campaigning, I am finding out, more and more people i 11 I are bringing up the issue to me, of Shoreham and the 12 evacuation, and I think it is important to note where my
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( ,)) 13 h district is, on the Nassau-Queens border. I am not running h la in Suffolk County, and I am not running in the eastern part 15 of Nassau County. 16 I am in an area that could get out of Nassau i 17 j pretty quickly. We can't get out of Nassau now. The 18 l other reason I mention -- the comments that were made I 19 earlier by a gentleman this morning about people jumping 20 on.the bandwagon. As a person who has been in this room 21 and other places speaking out against the opening of Shoreham 22 for quite a few years, I took a lot of exception to tht. 23 But he missed the point, and I hope you don't i 24 miss it, is that if there are people, and there are quite 8.-ederal Reporters. Inc. A. 25 a few of them who are suddenly finding their opposition i 1 1
4-10-gjw 17,094 m 1 to be expedient, where are they getting that idea from? [\# ~'\ 2 They are getting it from the people they are 3 meeting as I am meeting. The people who bring up the issue, 4 the people who said to me: you know, I really never thought 5 about Shoreham before, but now with Chernobyl, I think I 6 have to think about it now. 7 And I am meeting more and more people like that. 8 So, there is the public out there in Nassau County, Suf folk 9 Coun ty , eve rywhe re , that is rethinking the entire issue 10 of having a nuclear plant near them. 11 I would also like to point out to him , but he is 12 not still here, the fact that I think most of us are 13 concerned about the other plants all over this country i 14 j and the others that could have an impact on us in the I 15 case of an accident. 16 But because they are running, that should not be 17 used as a justification for opening up a new plant. Becuase 18 they exist, and we are in danger from them, doesn! t mean there 19 is any reason we should be asking for more dangers right now. 20 I have other reasons I am here. I am a parent 71 of a student, and I would like to see how my son, who is 22 older, and can take care of himself, how he would be 23 evacuated. I would like to know as a parent, who did have 24 a child who was very young, how they are planning, where is
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25 it specifically stated how two year olds who are in day care, I
4-ll-gjw 17,095 m I how children who are in second grade, or who are in s 2 elementary school or in junior high school, how are they 3 going to be evacuated. Where do we have information about 4 people in nursing homes how they are going to be evacuated 5 and where. 6 So, I think we have got to look to a number of 7 pieces of it. I do thank you for this opportunity to come i 8i before you to speak against the acceptance of LILCO's t 9 paper evaluated evacuation plan, and paper pretense. 10 It is the use of paper planning which originally I 11 l left many people with the impression that the use of the 12 i Nassau County Veterans Memorial Coliseum was possible as 13 h a decontamination site for thousands of people who would e 14 " be affected by an accident at Shoreham. 15 Many people thought it was a good site, because
!i 16 j no one had ever tried to get there, and I was in this room I'7 and I made a challenge to our Board of Supervisors before they wisely, for once, listened to the people and made the 18 l 19 formal decision that only the Board of Supervisors had 20 ' the legal right to in Nassau County, to say you cannot use 21 the Nassau County Veterans Memorial Coliseum as an evacuation 22 i si te .
l 23 ! I challenged them and I challenge you now, please 24 get in a car and drive. I know people consider it is an A
#ed;ra' Reporters, Inc. i 25 old issue, but I also know that LILCO has it in the back
4-12-gjw 17,096 g_, I of its mind that when push came to shove, the coliseum ( ') 2 would be open. All these places would be open. The schools 3 would be open, and I think you, then, have a responsibility 4 as decison-makers in this matter to listen to what we are 5: saying and try to drive there. 6 I It is hard for me to believe that anyone who t 7' has gotten in a car, driven from Shoreham to the coliseum 8' can actually say it is possible. It looks good on a map. i 9 When you look down: Hey, there is a major road, 10 it is great here, two major highways, i 11 l And I will give you a quick example. If you are 12 going westbound on the Long Island Expressway, if you miss 13 one exit of f the LIE out east, which is a very circuitous b't 14 road getting you over to the Northern State, there is n 15 no way from the Long Island Expressway to find the Nassau 16 0 county Veterans Memorial Coliseum. There is no way, because J 17 h there is no exit. I 18 l And I asked the Board of Supervisors in this 19 ' room months ago were they planning to build an additional 20 exit of f the Long Island Expressway for the purposes of 21 , adding an accessibility to the Meadow Brock Parkway to the 22 Coliseum, and they said no. 23 The other route is the Northern State Parkway. A
#diral Reporters,AndInc.24 you b get off at Exit 39 South, and you have to go off 25 a very circuitous road. You go onto a main road, you then
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- 1-13-gjw 17,097
.i o l J_ 1 get back on the Northern State Parkway eastbound. You travel 2 two exits, and then you go southbound on the Meadow Brook i 3 Parkway. I challenge anybody to do that in. good weather 4 l 4 l ! S if they haven ' t practiced it. And we are not talking about j 6 people who have experienced necessarily driving on our roads. 7 So, again, I ask you to do it. I ask how many I 8 people from your organization. From organizations 'from LILCO y 9 have tried to get to Hicksville. Have they tried it? Or j 10 are they still doing it on paper? i 11 We have already had one major problem caused, i I 12 and that information has been turned over to you. As if 13 there was~a plan. What else has LILCO been telling you t > 14 ! has not been tried. What else is not even true? t l 15 l It's the planning on paper which gives us misleading I l j 16 ! information that evacuation is not a problem. I must say
! i l 17 l how much I object to these plans being offered with no idea t
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! 18 of their feasibility, and with no idea of their workability.
19 I would like to mention another reason why I am 20 here. I used to work for Southampton Community Hospital. l I 21 i It is probably-somewhere on a list of one of your sites, 22 perhaps without their knowledge. And part of my job was i j 23 typing the reports before, during, and af ter working on i l f f) c-. ...,n..,,,,..,~. 24 our emergency system. So, I was part of the regular drills I 25 we had.
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, 1 It was a system, but we didn't leave it to paper.
2 We had to get the people out there on a regular basis, all 3 the shifts, continually doing it, getting everybody involved. 4 We could not allow what I typed that was handed out to people 5 to be used as the basis of saying we have an: evacuation 6 plan, we have a program for emergency or disaster program 7 for our hospital. , 8 If Southampton Community Hospital can't do it on paper, how are we going to allow LILCO to offer this again i 9 10 to you for the evacuation of a hundred and thirty thousand 11 people. Believe me, I have lived though it, it is not easy. 12 { I also throw in having been asked -- mistaken been 13 I think over at the Fourth of July Fireworks in Long Beach la last year, which because of the traffic problems that 15 would cause an evacuating of sorts, Long Beach, they no 16 longer have the Fourth of July Fireworks out there. Spent i I 17 two and a half hours in a non-panic, non-dangerous, non-18 disaster traffic jam. People only trying to get from one 19 place to other, and the only problem we had to deal with l 20 was there were too many people in one place trying to get i 21 somewhere else of f a constricted area with too few routes, 22 and not enough help, and with many people who were out there, 23 real good f aith, in earnest and trained personnel, who could !, 24 not handle that amount of traffic on that -- in that amount ) wal Reporters, lx, j 25 of time.
17,099 4-15-gjw A 1 And I would use that as a very good example of 7-2 some of the problems we would foresee with an evacuation. 3 My last point is that -I would really like to ask 4 LILCO and perhaps you can ask them for me: How is it possible 5 for them to offer you evidence of evacuation plans which 6 includes information about possible congregate care centers, 7 when those sites are totally unaware of their inclusion in 8 LILCO's plan? 9 My son goes to Elmont Memorial High School, and 10 the other night, Tuesday night, I went to and attended our 11 Board of Education Program, and I asked them basically if 12 they were aware that they were listed as a congregate care 13 -- our entire district is listed. 14 And no one on our Board of Education was aware 15 that they were being listed and presented to you as a 16 possible site for decontamination or anything, l'7 They were not aware of any arrangements with 18 anyone. They were not aware of any conversations, because 19 there hadn't been, yet they are on a list that was given 20 to you of offering you proof of one thousand spaces in the 21 Elmont community, in that area, again on the Nassau-Queens 22 border. 23 They don't know about it. They did not have-8.# Federal24 Reporters, any conversations.with Inc. anyone. No one has asked their s 25 pe rmission . The only connection is that quite a while ago l
4-16-gjw 17,100 3 1 ago they were asked by the American Red Cross whether they h (O 2 would in a natural disaster situation, and the problems were 3 particularly articulated, of what kind of situations would 4 be posed to the school board, and would they then accept 5 people in. 6 Nuclear disaster was not one of them. Any involve-7 ment with LILCO was not on that list. They gave a very 8 specific response, and it was for specific problems, and 9 they I might tell you -- the school board is completely 10 s' hocked that their name and their -- the whole process in 11 , a' community has really been laughed at. It is a complete i 12 l disregard and disrespect for us in the community. The 13 school board is upset, the school people are upset, and the 14 commun'ity should be very upset, because it is not within 15 LILCO's realm to take away local powers, and that was the 16 issue that was brought up before by Rene Mane, who is ruling i 17 our school districts? Is it LILCO making its own 18 determinations, or is it the community, and that is something 19 you will have to deal with, I think, and you have to take 20 that responsibility of who is going to be dictating our 21 personal lives. 22 It is the community's decision and not LILCO's 23 whether- or not our schools are going to be offered as
~24 evacuation sites, and in this case I am going to be sending 9 Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 into you a letter from our school board as soon as it meets,
4-17-gjw 17,101 I with the full information, another pulling out, because ( ) 2 they never were in it before , they never had a vote, and 3 that is the only way legally it can happen. 4 And this is reality. Is that the school districts 5 have a right to make their own decisions before others, and
.6, business decide what they are doing with our property.
7[ So, I also ask you how can you accept undocumented U 8j information of potential sites. That is a responsibility h 9 l' that you will have to live with, i 10 So, I am very concerned with this illustration t 11 of LILCO's method of providing -- of its ability to provide 12 safety and security to our community. I am not going to 13 [ listen to their words. 14 I can only go by their actions. I hope you will 15 i do the same, and reject any pretense that the latest pretense l 16 " on the part of LILCO fulfilled the requirement for your 17 j giving them a license. h 18 l} Please listen to the people. We are dealing with h 19 " these situations, and we are going to be left here af ter you 20 j go back to your other offices. 21 j Thank you. ; 22 ( Applause . ) i 23 JUDGE MARGULIES: Karen Franchino? i 24 l t ederal Re.aorters, Inc. I 25
4-18-gjw 17,102
- 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
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2 M 3 KAREN FRANCHINO 4 MS. FRANCHINO: Good af ternoon gentlemen. I want 5 to thank you first of all for hearing us today. I 6 really appreciate it. 7 My name is Karen Franchino. I reside with my i B' husband and two children in Hicksville, Long Island. I 9 do believe that the evacuation plan by LILCO, using the 10 Nassau Coliseum makes absolutely no common sense to any l 11 ! of us, i 12 l We have heard many statements on this, so I 13 won't go into the details. I think you have heard enough n i! 14 y about it. 15 However, my main reason for being here is I am 16 ; speaking on account of my children who are already very
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17 ' scared of life on Long Island , should there be an opening 18 of the Nuclear Power Plant in Shoreham. 19 Our solution, should the plant go on line, which 20 we have already definitely decided on, will be to move 21 out~of this area. I do not want my children to live under 22 a constant threat of nuclear accident. l 23 I urge that you really hear us, and to not grant 1 l 24 a license for Shoreham. Again, thank you for hearing us 0:deral Reporters, Au-Inc. 25 today. l l
4-19-gjw 17,103 r 1 (Applause.) (> '8 2 JUDGE MARGULIES: Howard Reef. 3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4 OF 5 HOWARD REEF 6 MR. REEF: Good afternoon, gentlemen. My name 7 is Howard Reef. We are asked to identify our organization. 8 Unfortunately, I represent myself. 9 I mean it is a little lonely position to be in, 10 but then on second thought, I think of the large number of 11 people who in the recent surveys have reported they are 12 against these things, and I think, well, being a majority 13 of one isn't that big of a problem, because I am in a 14 growing group. 15 Originally, the feeling on Long Island was one 16 , of indifference to Shoreham I would say for the general { l'7 population. I know frines of mine who have flipped over. 18 Who have changed their opinion in recent years, and that 19 is a growing phenomenon, and I would like to have you be 20 aware of that. 21 Planning zone concept. The NRC regulations 22 require a licensee to plan for two zones of possible 23 radioactive contamination. First, there is the plume 24 exposure planning zone, the EPZ, which constitutes the A, 8.-ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 area around the plant in which persons are most likely
17,104 1-20-gjw 1 to suf fer radioactive contamination. 2 Second, there is a larger ingestion pathway zone 3 in which the primary source of concern comes from consuming 4 contaminated foodstuffs rather than from direct personal 5 contamination. 6 The plume exposure zone is generally approximately 7 ten miles in radius around the plant, and the ingestion zone 8 is generally approximately fifty miles in radius around the i 9 plant. 10 However, the ten mile and the fifty mile EPZs are 11 4 i not cast in stone. Rather, the NRC regulations specify that 12 the exact size and configuration of both the plume and the 13 ingestion pathway zones around the plant must be determined 14 " in relation to the local emergency response needs and 15 0 capabilitie s , as they are affected by such things as 16 h topography, land characteristics, access routes, and 17! ;! jurisdictional boundary. 18 Notwithstanding the foregoing requirement that-19 the planning zones around each plant be specifically drawn 20 based upon local conditions,:,LILCO has steadfastly refused 21 to go beyond the ten mile plume zone, or the fifty mile 22 ingestion pathway zone . 23 Thus LILCO's plan contains no plume exposure 8 24 f AJcderal Reporters, Inc. ' 25 protection beyond ten miles, and no fifty mile ingestion protection beyond fifty miles. gjw 17,105 I In taking that position LILCO has closed its eyes f
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3 Fact, one: There are numerous factors on Long 4 Island which compel plume exposure planning beyond the ten 5 mile zone. For example, the Island's geography requires 6 all evacuation to go in one direction, westward, and thus 7 requires planning beyond ten miles since it is almost certain B that there will be congestion beyond ten miles. 9 There have been many references to Sunday's 10 newspaper about the high percentage of people who are going Il ! to get out, clog up the roads. 12 ' Similarly, the island's geography, coupled with 13 large east end population, leads to the likelihood that r 14 !! in a serious emergency there will be an evacuation shadow. 15 l That is, persons beyond ten miles from the plant, even if i 0 not recommended to evacuate, almost certainly will do so 16 h I! 17 l because they will be in a situation of feeling trapped on the 18 east end of Long Island unless they get out by going west. 19 Finally, the limited road network on Long Island 20 and the traffic congestion which regularly exists also 21 compels planning beyond ten miles. 22 Second fact. The exercise on February 13rh was 23 , unrealistic. LILCO assumed in all of its pretend protective 1 24 actions that no persons residing outside of the ten mile 9 federal Reporters, Inc. 25 EPZ would would maything except follow their normal
4-22-gjw 17,106 I activities. f-
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There was no additional congestion, and no need 2 3 for any support services for persons beyond ten miles from 4 the plant. In fact, in an actual emergency, people beyond 5! ten miles from the plant would almost certainly attempt 6 to evacuate. There fore , adding to the congestion and 7 dif ficulty f acing those within the ten mile zone who are 8' attempting to evacuate. 9 The fact that LILCO did not even pretend to deal 10 with this problem shows how unreal the exercise was, 11 f Third, last. Further, the Chernobyl accident 12 ! demonstrates that it is unrealistic to assume that radiation 80 will stop at ten miles from the plant. There are no
!l 14 1 barriars at ten miles, and in an extremely serious accident 15 at Shoreham, harmful radiation could certainly spread
- s 161 l beyond ten miles from the plant.
17 At Chernobyl, evacuation was required to eighteen 18 i point six miles, and hot spots more than fif ty miles from 19 ' the plant were discovered. The Suf folk County planners in 20 1982 found that a plume EPZ of at least twenty miles was P 21 require d. Chernobyl certainly confirms this. 22 For the NRC and LILCO to close their eyes to 23 the potential for contamination beyond ten miles is 24 f totally unrealistic. A p;deral Reporters, Inc. 25 Thank you.
4-23-gjw 17,107 (Applause.) I g 1 2 JUDGE MARGULIES: Anna Fife? End 4. 3 4 5 6 i 7j 1 8i 9 10 11 , i I 12 i
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la i 15 16 17 '! 1 18 ; il 19 20 21 22 23 eceral Reporters, Inc. 25 l i v-Ng- w
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17,108 Sim 5-1 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: ' Ann Feiss? 2 (No response. ) 3 Dr. Jack Lawrence, f 4 LIMITED APPEARANCE ~ STATEMENT 5 OF 6 JACK LAWRENCE 7 MR. LAWRENCE: Good afternoon. 8 I am Dr. Jack Lawrence, a veternarian who has 9 practiced veterinary medicine in Nassau County for over 10 25 years. 33 I am member of the New' York State and American 12 Veterinary Medical Association and a member of the 1 13 Veterinary-Academy on Disaster in Medicine, i 34 Nowhere in the licensing deliberations have I heard any mention or concern for the welfare of animals, , 15 i ther than human that is during-a planned evacuation. 16 g Since lower animals are just as susceptible 2 i - 18 to radiation and its effcets as we are, and since they 3 i 2 3, have no voices someone has to speak onLtheir behalf.
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! g Historically in previous disasters involving a g 20
- f. 21 nuclear exposure animal welfare was equally ignored. The 3
i E Sketscheem catastrophy in the Soviet Union in 1957, the 1 i Windscale, England 1957 radiation release, the Nevada 23 underground testing in 1962 and the Three Mile Island i and Chernobyl. accidents came and went without anyone showing
17,109 Sim 5-2 , the least concern for the animals involved. We do know that flocks of sheep died and had j (s 2 m ) 3 abortions in the Nevada episode and that large numbers of 1 dogs and cats were abandoned during the Three Mile Island disaster. Chernobyl left a legacy of raindeer in Lapland 5 that had to be killed and sheep that could not be marketed. 7 As a practicing veterinarian I can tell you that the loss of a companion animal is a traumatic. experience and an emotional upheaval of major proportions. The crying is no less severe and the tears no less salty 12 as if a member of the family had passed away. 13 If you had a companion animal I am sure you know what you felt. 14 There are then a number of questions that 15 16 must be considered in terms of animal life preservation g 17 as well as human response toward the endangered pets.
- 1. Since ther are 40,000 dogs and an estimated g 18 j 19 20,000 cats and hundreds of horses within a 10-mile radius j of Shoreham, what will happen to them during an evacuation?
20 l ?. g Also, why does the Board limit itself to a 21
' 10-mile radius? That.is rather arbitrary. Chernobyl has 22 show it to be otherwise.- So-that we are dealing with 23 a much, much larger population.
24 l 1 0 25
- 2. There'are animal hospitals and animal I
17,110 Sim 5-3 1 shelters within the same radius, and of course we have a _s 2 to consider the larger area as well. What plans have been 3 drawn for the animals in those institutions? 4 And, finally, there is a moral question which 5 .must be considered. There are untold numbers of fellow 6 animals, rabbits, deer, squirrels, bats, birds that are 7 at risk. We must ask ourselves what right has man to 8 endanger the lives of these species in order to produce his s g electricity in nuclear power plants when other safer and-10 Proven means,are available? 11 Please consider that. l l 12 Thank you. 13 (APPl ause.) 14 JUDGE MARGULIES: Karen Ralph. 15 (No response. ) 16 Sarah. Holly. 17 (No response.)
- 18 Bonnie Fuerstein.
i j 19 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i E 20 OF 3 d 21 BONNIE FUERSTEIN I 22 MS. FUERSTEIN: My name is Bonnie Fuerstein. 23 I am the Founder.and President of SPINS of New York, 4 24 Incorporated. Sick people need insurance. SPINS of 25 New York represents all of the major health related
--y-- - . - - , _ . . , _ . _ . -_ _ . . _ - . ~ , -,- -_..__,,s , , ' .- r y, . ,. y- ,. - , _ _ - , ,,--,,1,-
, . j
- 3. 1 17,111
. Sim 5-4 1 foundations in our state and is a lobbying organization l l
,. 2 for 2 million New York State resident's.
3 I have spent.the last six years-fighting for i 4' and finally winning the battle that will now allow people 5 with pre-existing medical conditions to purchase major 6 medical' insurance. f 7 I have been a resident and taxpayer and ! 8 registered voter in Rosslyn for the past 10 years. I am 9 the mother of two teenage daughters and have lived in 10 Nassau County all of my life. 11 Before I begin my formal testimony, I would 12 like to make it clear that my only good thought about 13 LILCO is that I had the foresight to sell my stock in that 34 company many years ago, f. 15 (Laughter.) 16 I fear that the opening of Shoreham will prove i j 17 to be .the greatest disaster that.Long Island residents 2 1 18 will ever experience. I believe that it will be an - a c j ig impossibility to evacuate any of our' residents safely. I 20 cannot understand the wanton irresponsibility of those people i f
~I 21 in favor of opening and operating Shoreham.
E 22 I know that many people eard.their livelihoods 23 through LILCO, but that will cease to happen when .these t 24 workers are forced to flee an uninhabitable Long Island i 25 or when the workers cease to exist.. l l l
17,112
" ~
j As the President of SPINS I represent in j e.,g 2 excess of one quarter of a million Long Islar.d residents 3 who are chronically ill. It is an outrate that LILCO 2 4 printed a paragraph of fantasy about the evacuation of 5 these people, and you supposedly intelligent men believe 6 that the following quote could have even a remote possibilit / 7
.of working, and I am going to quote.
8 OPIP 365, page 11 of 60, No. 584. Using the g- EOC special population bus dispatcher message form, 10 Attachment 16 assigned the drivers to either curb-side pickup routes or special facilities. Have an administrative support. person fill in the bus or van driver's name, date and the time of the dispatch for them. , i ( OPIP 364, Attachment 7. When the driver is-selected for dispatch fill in the page number on the route directions form the Patchogue s'taging area to the bus yard I and the name of the facility or curb-side pickup route at 1 17 the bottom of the form. Cross out the names of the transfer g 18
; 19 points that are not activated so the curb-side pickup l drivers will know which transfer points can accept evacuees j 20 J for. transport to'the reception center. Give the top copy l 21 ! of the form ot the driver and retain the bottom copy for your own records.
23 ( Applause . ) 24 9 25 This special population is at even greater I _ -_- ._, . _ _ - m ..-.. ,, ,, -
.- -1 ,
17,113 I rs an er ea y un erpar s. It is obvious that. 5-6
- a. 2 ' the NRC is only concerned about- their own vested interest
= 3 in Shoreham. 4 Had any of these people given thought to the 5 chronically ill they would have or should have realized , 6 that LILCO's evacuation plan could never be. achieved in 7 reality. LILCO cannot even manage to restore power'in 8 a localized area of Rosslyn after a mild rain storm, and g we are supposed to believe that they will evacuate the i 10 . chronically ill and handicapped? , gj It appears-that the forms and statistical' 1 12 information are the first steps in the massive epidemio-13 1 gical study. The NRC is engaging in a flagrant g disregard of the facts. It appears that the NRC may also 15 be planning a long-term study of the health effects of 16 those people who happen to survive. Is the Commission in , a j 37 the works as an afterthought such as that of Nassau which-e
; 18 discussed the horrible facts only after our astronauts y
E 39 had their lives snuffed out J d
! 20 Members of the NRC, I personally represent a
f 21 312,585 Long Island residents. To be specific, I would
- z. ,
g like you'three men who work in Washington to think about 23 this special population. Cystic fibrosis, these people g are born with the inability to clear their lungs. Daily 25 antibiotics are required as well as physical therapy at _ . = - _ - - . - _ - . - - , . - . - . , , - - - - , . .-. - , , .
17,114 Sim 5-7 1 twice per day. These people will die. Loupis, in order em 2 to keep Loupis under control daily medications of various ( ) x~/ 3 types are required. Without these drugs a flareup will 4 occur leading to death. 5 I have had Loupis for 28 years, and in a nuclear 6 emergency I will die along with every other Loupis patient. 7 People with autoimmune diseases cannot fight off common 8 infections. How do you expect us to fight off radiation g contamination? 10 Multplesclerosis, many of these people cannot 11 walk simple steps without the aid of medical equipment, 12 walkers, wheel chairs and lifts. It takes an average 13 of 10 minutes to help one MS person at curb-side into the 14 back seat of a car. Obviously these people will also 15 die. 16 Rumatoid arthritis, a major cripling disease, s k 17 daily medication is required. These people cannot run.
- 18 They, too, will die.
5 j 19 Cancer, the daily lifesaving chemotherapy 20 will be unobtainable. Women in Nassau County already have d a 30 percent greater chance of developing breast cancer 21 3 22 as compared to other counties in this State. 23 All f these people will die. 24 Epilepsi, the absence of medication will cause 25 these people to have seisurcs. They, too, will die.
17,115 Sim 5-8 3 Diabetes, insulin dependent diabetics will also die. 2 Kidney disease, what about dialysis patients. Will dialysis machines be available at the evacuation sites? 4 Are LILCO employees going to play doctor with real people? 5 Or maybe they would rather play pharmacist or physical therapist. Are LILCO trailers equipped with raised toilets, 7 hand rails, lifts and ramps? 8 g The complete disinterest and stupidity on the Part of LILCO is evident once again in the following 10 quote. In the case of the deaf population a LERO repre-sentative, and that means one person, will dispatch to their homes to inform them of the need to take protective action. For those deaf people who are also disabled, they will send an appropriate vehicle to assit them in their evacuation. 16 E One person could not possibly find all of the
- 17 2
deaf people. The computers will be down in a nuclear [g 19 emergency. Is LILCO going to hire a file clerk to find
- 5. their cards? The one person LILCO plans to send is not R 20 4 even an expert in sign language. Of course, there was la 21
' not mention about the deaf and blind or the autistic 22 people. What exactly are the appropriate vehicles that 23 LILCO is talking about?
24 9 25 Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have
17,116 Sim 5-9 1 to question just how many LILCO employees are really going n 2 to run into a radioactive disaster in the nanc of brotherly ( ) x ~'- 3 love. 4 Most assured the LILCO employees will only 5 be thinking about reaching their own families and fleeing 6 Long Island. 7 In essence I think it can be accurately said 8 that the NRC values political appointment over human life. 9 It is apparent that we are really involved with the 10 modern day survival of the fittest. LILCO evacuation plans 11 are just exercises in fantancy and not reality. 12 LILCO's thinking on Shoreham and the fact that 13 you might agree are reminescent of the pogroms of Europe, 14 the experimentation with human lives and the gas chambers 15 of Nazi Germany. 16 Thank you, a h 17 (Applause.) e
- 18 JUDGE MARGULIES: Sarah Holly.
I j 19 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i 20 OF h' d 21 SARAH HOLLY a b MS. HOLLY: Good afternoon. My name is 22 23 S rah Holly, and I am Legislative Counsel to State 24 Senator Normal Levy. 25 This testimony is presented on behalf of
17,117 Sim 5-10 1 State Senator Normal Levy who represents the 8th Senatorial 7 -- 2 District located on the south shore of Nassau County with x.) 3 a population of approximately 290,000 people. 4 I thank you for the opportunity to present 5 testimony today concerning LILCO's emergency evacuation 6 plan for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 7 I, as well as the overwhelming number of Long 8 Islanders are opposed to the opening of the Shoreham 9 Nuclear plant. The tragedy at Chernobyl coupled with the 10 recognition that adequate emergency planning for Shoreham 11 is not possible without State and local participation can 12 only lead to one conclusion, that the Shoreham Nuclear 13 Power Plant cannot be licensed to operate. 14 LILCO's suggestion that Shoreham be granted 15 a commercial operating license without a further test 16 of the plant's emergency plan or without State or local 3 17 participation is preposterous on the face and it is e
- 18 clearly contrary to Nuclear Regulatory Commission i
j 19 regulations. i 20 As recent surveys indicate, nearly two-thirds f f 21 of Long Islanders would flee their homes in the event a 22 of a nuclear accident at Shoreham even if there were 23 assurances by LILCO officials that they were safe. 24 The massive traffic jams that would occur 25 n Long Island's already overcrowded roads would prevent
17,118 Sim5-ll 1 residents from fleein~g Long Island and would lead to e- 2 panic that would surely result in tragedy. '_Y 3 I urge that this Board strongly take into 4 account the testinony that you have received from Long 5 Island residents during this past week, and that you will 6 recommend that the Shoreham plant not be licensed to 7 operate. 8 I have copies of the Senator's testimony if 9 you care to have them. 10 Thank you. 11 (Applause.) 12 JUDGE MARGULIES: Fern Simon, 13 (No response. ) 14 Anthony Rossi. 15 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 16 OF 2 h 17 ANTHONY ROSSI e
- 18 MR. ROSSI: Good afternoon, ge n tle. men .
E j 19 I was at Riverhead yesterday and did not get i 20 an opportunity to speak because of the large crowds that l d 21 were there. E w 22 But the Board of Education for the Middle 23 Country School District whom I represent today has asked 24 that I come today, and we are in the Seldon Center Reach 25 Area of Suffolk County, to readiait , and I believe copies 1
. - . - - . _ = . . - -
17,119 Sim 5-12 'were given to you, their resolution from 1983 saying that the evacuation plan presented by LILCO will not work. a 2 I have additional copies, and just to spare 3 the people uin the au'ience d and yourselves from' going 4 , through it again, just to higlight statements that-were ! made, Dr. Jeffers and I, the Superintendent of Schools, 6 testified before this committee back in.1984 indicating 7 at that time that the plan to evacuate would not work. 8 My charge as transportation supervisor for 9 the school district is to transport students. We have 10 approximately 12,000 students in our school district and i 11 we transport them in a 30-mile radius. 12 During a normal catastrophy, a snow storm or 13 () in severe weather we are looking at maybe a five-hour
- plan to take students home. Three out of 62. drivers polled 15 said they would not participate in taking children home, 16
! but would take care of their own families prior to reporting O
17 l ! to work should there be a nuclear emergency. , g '8 C We gave testimony that without the help of j 19 l j drivers, teachers and custodians, all of whom were j 20 g polled with similar results, that an evacuation plan would 1 21 not work. . l 22 The civil authorities are not participating 23 i which will only add to confusion and chaos. I have. copies ; 24 ("% of the resolution of the Board of Education for Middle (_) 25
. - . . -.e - , , - , ~ . - . . -., -- .--v-. . . - , , - - .
,. .,,n, n ,., ,
l 17,120 1 un ry sw ch I will leave with you again in the
.S im 5-13
, 2 event the ones last night did not-make it.
s
, 3 .Just'a personal note as a professional in the-4 transportation area, I kind of feel a little upset with l 5 this whole procedure becuase people like myself-have-been-j 6 saying for a long time, and my charge to my district is i
7 to transport students, and if they ask me to do something 8 'with the help of my people I can move 12,000 children 9 within a three or four-hour period given ideal conditions. jo- And I am telling them as I am telling you 11 as I have told people before, in an emergency of a nuclear 12 catastrophy it'is not going to get done. There is no 13 place to bring them. There is no place to go and there ( i4 are not people to take care of them. I
- I urge that if.the law is what it says, and 15 1
16 that a sound evacuation plan be in effect and that every
; 37 transportation official that has commented says that
,! E
. 18 it cannot happen, then I cannot see a license being issued 2
19 for shoreham. 1 a
! 20 Thank you.
f g (Applause ..) . 3 s E JUDGE MARGULIES: Sharon Segall. MS. SEGALL: Good afternoon, gentlemen. I thank you for this opportunity to address y u. ! ) 25 I realize the problems that you have had in listening
-- - , - - y- w - -- m._ ----4 + - - . ..m 3y---e----------te- 9, q qur
l 17,121 Sim 5-14 1 for days and listening passively to testimony ~of people who g_
,s 2 live in this area. It must be tiresome for you, and I km
- 3 sympathesize with that.
4 I hope that you have come here with open hearts 5 and open ears. I hope that these hearings are much more 6 than the formality that they sometimes appear to be. 7 My name is Sharon Segall, and I am here as 8 a representative of the National Council of Jewish Women g which. represents 5,000 member families on Long Island 10 and 100,000 members nationwide. } 11 We feel that the consideration for licensing 12 a plant on Long Island without a-safe evacuation plan in 13 place is ridiculous. These are'words that you have heard r j4 before. 15 I also speak as a member of a community, the 16 Rossyln Community where I have resided for the last 19-h 17 years. I. speak as the mother of two children and as a wife 2
$ 18 and as a civic minded person and a volunteer in many
, i l j ig organizations. a la 20 And I am here to speak also'for those who i 3 21 are retiscent, those who are fearful and those who feel i: 22 imp tent, and there are many of them who feel that this 23
. plant cannot serious be considered, but feel that the g machinery of Big Brother is beyond'what they as common 25 pe ple can contribute to in stcpping it.
17,122 Sim 5-15 1 I would like to speak'specifically to'the. 'l r-f ., 2 evacuation plan. Since the removal of the Nassau Colosseum (_ 3 from the plan, LILCO has put in the use of their three 1 4 facilities which you are no doubt aware. I cannot speak 5 to Bellmore and I cannot speak to Hicksville, but I can ] I 6 and I will speak'to Rosslyn. i j 7 The Rosslyn area.is an incredibly congested 1 8 area. If a picture says more than a thousand words, I . 4 1 { 9 beseech you this afternoon to drive from Willis Avenue i 10 across the intersection of the service road of the
~
11 expressway any time after 4 o' clock and tell me if it is' i !- 12 possib'le to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people. 1 13 You will not make it through the stop light on an ordinary 5- .14 day under o.rdinary conditions in less than 15 minutes. 15, This plan is not workable. Tens of thousands 16 Of PeoP l e would be processed through the LILCO facility h 17 plant along Willis Avenue and the service road of the e 4
- 18 expressway. . s ! c i
j 19 What is proposed is that those-people would a <
!3 20 be decontaminated in that center. I assume that. portable 1
i 3 21 showers and portable johns would be brought in for the i Z ~ { 22 use of decontamination. What would happen to the ground-23 water? Where would the water be put after those. people 24- are showered? Is there some containment facility for 25 that water, or would that water just drain into the i l
17,123 Sim 5-16 1 groundwater and into our shallow aquifer which is our 2 only source of drinking water? I i \"# 3 (APPl ause.) 4 Where will be put the cars? LILCO has a 5 decent sized parking lot of their employees, but where 6 will they put tens of thousands of cars? The lot is 7 half filled with their trucks already and where will 8 they park those trucks? Are they going to park them 9 across Willis Avenue? Are they going to park them on 10 people's lawns? There has to be a place for them if this j3 is a plan. 12 I w uld also like to suggest that if this is 13 a plan which is seriously being considered that there be q( /, additional expercises and an additional evaluation in the 34 15 future. We cannot assume that this is a workable plan. 16 Community people don't feel that it is and we are here 37 every day. We know this community. We can't expect that
- 18 y u know it, but we hope that you hear us.
j 19 o conclude, I would also like to read into I. g 20 the record a statement from the Board of Education of f
, 21 the Rosslyn School District that was a letter addressed 9 June 18th, 1986 to the NRC.
Dear Sir,
Madam, the Rosslyn School District has been asked to provide facilities to the Nassau County f~w 5 (,<y 25 New York chapter of the.American Red Cross in the case
17 124 . Sim 5-17 .j of an emergency or disaster. The Board of Educ,ation has granted this request subject to the'following conditions: 3 This agreement is not meant to be part of any 4 eva uation plan prepared by LILCO related to the Shoreham 5 nuclear facility. Rossyln Schools have withdrawn the use of their-buildings. I know that as of now Port Washington is a pretend. center for housing people after g they have been evacuated and decontaminated. I
.- I am also becoming aware that the residents' 10 I
of Port Washington know nothing about this plan, and I would be willing to conjecture that once.the word is out that they will also withdraw the use of their schools. 13 You have heard this here before today. People are not willing to participate in a. plan if it can't work, 15
; and I hope that you will reconsider and extend hearings 16 i ! and drills to provide for safe evacuation.
g 17 I Thank you. l g 18 8 (Applau se . ) j 19 1 l JUDGE MARGULIES: Gary Kirkendall.. g 20 J* LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 21
!' OF l 22 l
- GARY KIRKENDALL i
MR. KUOYKENDALL: Representatives and members 24 3 of the NRC, my name is Gary Kirkendall. I live in Holbrook, !' 25 L
17,125 Sim 5-18 New York and I have a degree in political science, which 1 i A - 2 I believe allows me to claim that my understanding of the ! 3 political processes regarding regulatory agencies is more 4 than dilitant. 5 I also have a degree in mechanical technology, 6 and began work two weeks ago on.my master's thesis 7 dealing with the subject of solar assisted refrigeration 8 in the industrial process . This thesis will lead to a 9 master of science in the field of energy management. 10 For the past five years as well I have worked it in the energy conservation field specializing in building 12 automation systems. 13 I mention all of this because I believe I ('>M i4 can claim more than dilitant understanding in the field 15 of energy also and energy politics. This combination of i j n3 politidal and energy' backgrounds won't' allow me to claim l h 17 a unique perspective on the Shoreham question, but it 2
; 18 will at least allow me to claim an advantage in understanding.
E j ig It is this advantage which allows me to a a 20 state without investigating the subject closely that I i d can predict with some accuracy the guiding tenents of 21 22 .y ur Commission, since'like all other commission charters, 23 there are highly predictable words that will occur there, 24 w rds intended in their articulation to serve as guidelines 25 f r y ur operation, words like truth, public trust, 1 , h w
-n v - - - , -,,--,e r-eg. ,- -, ,4 , ,,.,w ,. ,.e- , , - , , _ , - , - 1 -
9 - ~ ,- , , ,-
'17,126 Sim 2-19_ 1 principles of fairness and public welfare, and these words e 2 combined with the rigorous scientifib techniques to create (v~) 3 s way of-regulating what can only be described as an 4 awesome industry.
5 For the Commission members edification these 6 words.were also intended to serve as constraints on 7 reckless 'and abusive behavior. 8 For that reason I come here as an angry man, I 9 a man who has watched this process at a short distance 10 from its beginning unles this point in time when I have 11 read and seen things that compel a thinking person ~to stop 12 and ask what went wrong and when? 13 Members of the NRC just look with us at what 14 you have done. Never mind-for the moment that you are 15 in direct contradition to the 10th Amednment to the 16 Constitution. In terms of the intervenors process you have g e 17 made it clear that anyone not being paid for a living
; 18 to argue either side of the case had better be prepared I j 19 to give us a disproportionate amount of time from their i
families and/or careersjin order to make sure that the l 20 t 3 21 opposition viewpoint would be represented in each of the 1 22_ sundary areas and arenas you have designated in effect 23 creating trial by ordeal for an entire population of 24 n nprofessional intervenors. 25 You have announced that you do not find it i
17,127 Sim 2-20 1 necessary to consider the question of'the psychology of A 2 the human response to the role of the utility in the 3 evacuation process when in fact the entire evacuation 4 process represents the utility's answer to the psychology a 't 5 of human response to disaster.
~
6' This leaves the NRC in the untenable position-7 of selectably delving into psychological respenses while-8 disclaiming the necessity to delve at all. 9 You have stated that the acknowledgement i f to of the inherent flaws in the plan would run counter to n 'the entire emergency planning framework, classic example 12 f begging the question and a tacit admission that you 13 will ignore the dictates of logic when it becomes clear i4 that it conflicts with~your agenda. 15 In terms of timing you have made it clear 16 that it is your intention to license a reactor that you k 17 re fully aware of is the target for imminent takeover 2
$ 18 and decommission by the State-of New York, nd you are in i
39 the process of flaunting your decision to go ahead with a i 20 full knowledge of the clear oprecition of the State g
$ government, the local govcfr/an and almost every g articu-1 lator of public welfare that the New York State political pr ess can produce from this area. ! 23 24 In addition, after taking copious amounts 25 f testimony to the contrary from people who inhabit this
17,128 Sim 2-21 1 locale, you have managed to conclude that the traffic
/- 2 systems of the east end do not experience .vutine . gridlock V 3 in the summer, nor will they.in years to come.
4 You have managed to conclude that the labor 5 union at LILCO has a never-ending love affair with manage-6 ment that ensures their cooperation year after year in J 7 a potential evacuation process. 8 You have managed to conicuda that a-significant 9 number of people caught up in a state of combined panic 10 and rage will never associate the LILCO volunteer with the it obvious reason for that panic and rage. 12 You have managed to conclude that the true 13 authority, the State and local people, will allow themselves [ -- 14 to be taken by the hand from the inception of a disaster 15 to its end in an exercise they are totally unpracticed 16 in and without having ideas'of their own about how things h 17 should be done, without and not rather simultaneously
; 18 compromised the efficiency of the evacuation when efficiency 3
g 39 is all that may determine that the number of victims will - i _! 20 kept.to a minimum. E d And you came to'that conclusion despite the 21 i E 22 sworn statements of the Governor and the County Executive 23 that they would not allow themselves or their governing l 24 apparatuses to be treated in such a manner. 25 You have managed to conclude that'Shoreham 1
- . - - - - - . ~ , . -~ - - , , - , . . -. n -
p
17,129
.Sim 2-22 j is not.both unique and' unfortunate in being situated on an. island, one which would require large numbers of people
!. 2 j to evacuate into an area of greatest danger before they 3 , .i
- could get out of danger at-all, and you managed to do all 4
this while conducting a drill that didn't even include 1 5 so much as a token portion of the population in the 6 J simulation. Members of the NRC, I submit to-you that the 8
. dialectics of your decision-making process never rested 9
on the dictates of logic. So we can maintain the illustion that you applied the rigorous effort requircd to see the Shoreham question clearly. 13 Instead, we are left with the conclusion 14 that you entered the process looking for a way to sub-I stantiate a fundamentally flawed regulatory licensing 16
! imperative, and we are left to conclude that.you felt the-g 17 I pressure of that imperative from the beginning and 4
18 approached the Shoreham question as'an exercise in j 19 i tailoring the nuclear and private utility industry's j 20 g interests to clearly incompatible framework, the.one that
.21
~
. was articulatbd in all^those gradiose'words I mentioned 22 at the outset. - 2 -
, 23 i Believe me when I tell you that it hasn't gone
- 24 f unnoticed thatisuch an intense
- level'of,cpnicism precludes
17,130 Sim 2-23 1 a large number of people from coming to testify. f, 2 As the holder of a political' science degree, Y) 3 I had the perverse pleasure of telling these people that 4 the fix was in from the beginning. Yet even I was com-5 pelled to admit to them in debate that the force of logic 6 that served as the dialectic for rigorous inquiry would 7 force admission to one or more of the clear inconsistencies 8 that makes shoreham a obvious exception to your licensing 9 imperative -- please look at me' wher: I am talking tc you. 10 Anger should compel at least that much. 11 Those clear inconsistencies make Shoreham 12 an obvious exception to your licensing imperative, yet 13 the level of brazen and socially criminally disregard you 14 display is still a shock even to me. 15 Now I know very little about Frank Petrone, n; the former Regional Director of FEMA who was in charge 17 of assessing the merits of the evacuation plan. For all
.h ; ul I know, he may be considered by those who know him to E
3 ig be a real jerk. But I do know this. inien his time came a 20 he stood up. He had what we call the right stuff. d I submit to you when the time came for youito 21 3 22 did in your heels, you found you didn't, and whether I am 23 speaking tc you individually or severally, that point holds. i 24 I was aware that even being considered for 25 a responsible position at the NRC required an inordinate 1
17,131 Sim 2-24 1 amount of ass kissing. So I knew that a large number cf f 2 your Commissioner members had already been exposed to 3 those little crises that lend maleability to one's network 4 of priciples. My words are not meant for those persons. 5 My words are directed to those who are unfortunate enough 6 to have been forced for the first time in their lives 7 to see those principles visibly battered by this 8 embarrassment of a process. 9 I know that such people did exist in the 10 NRC, and I also know that they don't work there any more. ji My curiousity compels me to ask if they managed to week 12 ut of all of the people with integrity or if there are 13 still some left? 14 The whcle message is simple. There is still 15 en ugh time for you to skuttle this whole damn ship of 16 f 1s before they succeed in taking what is left of your j 37 self-respect. 2
- 18 Face it fellows, the NRC, the integrity of j 19 the NRC and its FEMA counterpart have been irreparably a ! 20 damaged. Contempt for those that make it up and what g $ they have done is already in place in the political process.
3 E It doesn't take a fortune teller to predict 23 that this agency will see some sericus house cleaning g in the coming years. Sure, Administrations, appointees ,/ end Sim 25 nd even agencies come and go. Sue fols l l
17,132 o#6-1-SueW 1 Sure, administrations, appointees and even agencies
/5 V 2 come and go. Since we know the federal government abhors a F
3 responsibility vacuum, this agency will reform using some other 4 set of initials, some other set of Commission members. And, 5 as working professionals, you will probably survive the 6 experience, too. 7 But, you as individuals, I ask you how you are going 8 to reforge the strength of your principles once you are made 9 completely aware of precisely how weak they are. If nothing 10 else changes and this proceeding goes through to the conclusion 11 the cynics among us insist we will see, you as individuals will 12 take on a stigma, a notoriety, b) (_ 13 What kind of stigma? The kind of stigma that 14 accompanies one who is responsible in part for the perversion 15 of a process that created a'real and continuing menace for as 16 many as a million people in one of the heaviest population 17 ' corridors in the country. 18 The kind of stigma that attaches itself te one 19 who considers the monetary welfare of a few thousand share-4 20 holders more important than the physical well-being of several 21 hundred thousand. l 22 What kind of notoriety? The kind of notoriety . 23 that will create for you, both individually and severally, f () 24 Lan-Metal Reimrters, tnc. instant enmity from a significant_ percentage of any population ' 25 e you int'ract with for the rest of your pathetic lives, all
17,133 (.s#6-2-SueW l because you didn't recognize when the perversion had taken-r (G 2 hold, all because you were lacking in what it took when the i 3 situation called for you to summon your courage. 4 JUDGE MARGULIES: -Mr. Kirkendall, could'you please 1 5 sum up? You have. spoken long in excess of your time limit. 6 (Applause, and Mr. Kirkendall leaves the podium.) 7 MR. KIRKENDALL: I want to say I appreciate being
~
8 allowed to speak here, but I don't appreciate it. 9 I feel as angry now as when I walked in the door. 10 I have nothing but contempt for you people. 11 (Applause.) i i 12 JUDGE MARGULIES: We have quite a few people who [( )h 13 l: wants'to speak. If someone runs over their time limit, they i 14 ; are only depriving someone else of the right to speak. We 15 wish to hear from as many of you as possible. i 16 i 'Vic Skullnick. 17 FROM THE FLOOR: He had to leave because of the 18 time involved. 19 JUDGE MARGULIES': Thank you. Charlotte Ski. 20 FROM THE FLOOR: She had to leave also. 21 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dr. Shana Shackner. 22 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 23 OF i 24 DR. SHANA SHACKNER j cderal Reporters, Inc. 25 DR. SHACKNER: Like an earlier gentleman, I __ _ . _ _ .__ _ _ ~ _ _ _,
17,134 'l e #6-3-SueW1 represent myself and my family only. I hope a PhD. in counsel- ) 2 ling, psychology and in educational administration. I am a 3 resident of Jericho here in'Nassau County. 4 Do you -- do any of you gentlemen live on Long
'5 Island, by any chance?
6 JUDGE MARGULIES: No, we do not. 7 DR. SHACKNER: Okay. There are things then that 8 you are probably not aware of. For example, hardly a month' 9 goes by -- not -- it may be more than a month, it's never more j 10 than two, but hardly a month or two goes by without seeing 11 something in the newspapers.that says, this item in the Shoreham i i I 12 installation cracked. That piece was found flawed. This n k,) C .: company that did the construction has a terrible record in l 14 i other places in the country, i 15 l . Nevertheless, companies who have bungled similar 16 , jobs in other parts of the United States continue working on 17 i Shoreham. On Long Island, there is a standing quip to the 18 effect that the Long Island Expressway is the world's largest-19 I parking lot. And, if you-try to move around Long Is' land you 20 know that this is a very serious problem. 21 We are under supplied with highways. And,'in fact, 22 again a standing truism is that all' of our highways, as soon 23 as they.were completed, were, in fact,. grossly inadequate for , 24 the job to be done.
;deral Reporters, Inc.
j 25 The evacuation drill that was obstensibly practiced i t -- .. - . - ..
I 17,135 SueW 1 was a total fraud and a sham. Not one single human being 2 moved. It was all done by mirrors, I guess; by the telephone. 3 It certainly did not involve people, and it really might just 4 as well have been done by mirrors. 5 Frank Petrone's position is something that we have 6 an enormous respect for. And it properly highlights the fact' 7 that any kind of practice, particularly one that must involve 8 people, cannot be done exclusively on paper or even by computer 9 model. 10 I don't think many people have talked about a 11 particularly frightening and long range issue. Nuclear waste l 12 1 disposal techniques are in their pre-infancy. While the g) ( 13 Department of Defense will undoubtedly take some of the spent 14 fuel, this provides only an initial and additional layer of 15 :luse in bureaucracy which in no way mitigates the enormousy l 16 ! of the ultimate problems of nuclear waste disposal. 17 l The half life of spent nuclear fuel rods exceeds 18 the life of every known container materials. The nuclear wastes 19 that has been buried were buried, to some extent, when we didn't 20 know what we were doing, and to another extent with faith in 21 the hope that somewhere in 25 or 50,000 years somebody will 22 find a way to remedy the fact that these containers are coming 23 apart and that the half life if a mere 24,000 years. 9 24 Aw 7:deraf Reporters, Inc. 25 Not surprisingly, our fellow citizens in areas that are being considered for toxic -- as toxic waste dumps are up l l l l
17,136
#6-5-SueW i in arms. And they are absolutely right.
2 And, as a citizen'I don't want that problem to be 3 in my back yard, and I don't want to dump it in someone else's 4 back yard. 5 Even if nuclear power were an acceptable option at 6 this time, this particular power plant is most certainly not 7 acceptable. After Chernobyl, after the ongoing contamination 8 of hundreds of miles of British beach, after Three Mile Island, 9 and God knows how many other incidents, we certainly should
- 10 realize that mankind is a long way from being able to deal 11 safely and responsibly with nuclear energy.
12 At the very least, until a reliable safety -- until 13 reliable safety can truly be assured over numerous years, we la are not ready for nuclear power. And, we are most certainly i 15 l flirting with disaster if Shoreham is enabled to go on line. i 16 i I know that Long Island hopes that you will. listen l 17 ! to what people are saying here and not enable Shoreham to get 18 off the ground. 19 Thank you. 20 (APPl ause.) 21 JUDGE MARGULIES: Assemblyman Patrick G. Halpin. 22 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 23 OF PATRICK G. HALPIN ( 24 h/cderai aeponers, inc. 25 MR. HALPIN: Thank you. I have copies of my
~17,137 ,#6-6-SueW 1 statement. Should I submit them to the stenographer here?
2 JUDGE MARGULIES: If you would like to leave it. l 3 It isn't necessary. It may assist her in1 typing it up. l 4 But, the statements are being_taken verbatim. 5 MR. HALPIN: Thank you. I am Patrick Halpin, a 6 member of the New York State Assembly, representing theJllth 7 District which lies in the southwestern corner'of Suffolk 8 County right on the Nassau County border. 9 I've come before the Nuclear Regulatory Commission ) 10 to say this: The Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant, despite being i 11 l virtually complete, costing well in excess of four billion 12 dollars, should not be given an operating license. 13 My reasons are as follows: First, we must 14 i recognize the economic disaster of that plant. Its operation 15 ;I and inclusion in the rate base will be nothing less than ( i 16 devastating to every Long Island electric consumer. Everyone i 17 ' who liv ~es and' works here. 18 Millions of people will be faced with extraordinary 19 electric bills that will inevitably force residents to leave 20 Long Island and businesses to relocate. The economics simply 21 make no sense under any conceivable scenario. 22 But, the NRC is not here to hear this. You have 23 come to examine the safety issues connected with this plant. 24 In terms of safety, several points I believe have to be made. edarat Reporters, Inc. 25 I understand the political commitment that the
l 4 17,138
/.,#6-7-SueW e l Reagan Administration has to nuclear power. And, I am i
D 2 cognizant of the NRC's relation to the Administration, to which 3 it finds itself~ responsible. 4 However, regardless of one's position on the issue 5 of nuclear power in general, it is a mistake to see the fate 6 of Shoreham as determining the fate of the entire nuclear 7 power industry. In fact, each nuclear power plant now operating 8 in the United States or under construction is different in 9 physical design, in its construction, and in its role in meeting 10 a particular area's energy needs, and most importantly its l 11 location. 12 I'm not here to say that every nuclear power plant 13 I should be immediately closed, precisely because I want it to 14 be clearly understood that the decision on emergency planning, 15 a decision that was rightfully delegated to states and localities 16 must remain what Congress intended back in-1979, a state and
- 17 local prerogative.
18 Simply because any given state and/or locality 19 decides that an adequate emergency plan is not feasible is not 20 a legitimate reason for states' rights to be usurped. Having . , 21 given the authority to the states for emergency planning, the
- 22 federal government and its bureacracy must abide by that 23 decision and the consequences of it.
24
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Dissatisfaction with a state and/or local dec'ision 25 hardly warrants action by federal or administration fiat. The
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- 6-8-SueW 1 NRC cannot and should not override Congress' legislative O 2 intent.
3 Further, we have n9w witnessed an extraordinarily 4 outrageous occurrence. LILCO has designed its own emergency 5 plan and put it forth as a legitimate alternative to a state 6 and local plan. Again, this undermines Congress' intention 7 of making the emergency planning a state and local-responsi-8 bility. In principle, it yjolates the authority of both.the 9 United States Congress and state and local governments. 10 The absurdity of LILCO's plan lies in the fact 11' that under the very best of conditions, LILCO cannot function 12 responsibly. Trimming trees has presented a challenge that V 13 they are unable to meet. 14 (Applause.) 15 MR. HALPIN: To think that they could, without 16 state and local' support and cooperation, implement an emergency 17 plan shatters all believability. The NRC must not accept this 18 plan. It cannot sanction LILCO's circumvention of Congres-19 sional intent and state and local governmental responsibility. 20 But, there is more than that argument to be made 21 here. Shoreham imposes unnecessary and unreasonable safety 22 risks. I say unnecessary and unreasonable because it is 23 commonly accepted, and generally true, that in the name of 24 progress some risk is necessary and even reasonable. Shoreham, 9ederal Reporters, Ao Inc. 25 as I said earlier, oversteps economic reasonableness and
17,140 t #6-9-SueW 1 necessity. So, too, does it burst beyond the bounds of 2 legitimate public health and safety risks. 3 Now, I am not an engineer but I do know this. The i 4 world still reels from Chernobyl. Every day we learn more j 5 about its devastating impact, about projected cancer increases, j 6 about contaminated food and water supplies, about the failures j 7 of technolo'gy, about human error. 8 Some try to distance American technology _from ),
- 9 Soviet technology, and some of these distinctions are valid.-
i i- 10 But, by doing this we become mired in minutia, losing sight I 11 of the larger questions. Can we adequately protect against i' 12 what we now know to be the very real possibilities of massive 13 technological failure? Can we ever obviate or minimize i ) 14 d inevitable human error? Can there be adequate emergency - 15 planning, especially now given the stark example of the t 16 possibility of the impossible, Chernobyl?- 17 When does it make sense to see nuclear technology 18 as fundamentally different from other progressive technologies? 19 The fact is that the failed nuclear technology,. l 20 unlike many others, resonates worldwide. Industries, govern- ! 21 ments, individuals are entitled to make their mistakes, and 22 will continue to make errors in judgment and decisions. To ! 23 the extent that the consequences of those mistakes are limited i 24 to the individuals, the companies and the government that make l I Waal Reporters, lM. 1 25 them, we have legitimate economic, safety and health risks. i
. , _ _ . . , . _ . . . - . ,_ .,,..,,._._ty.-,-,
__ _ _ ~ _ - . . _ _ _ _ ,,r-.~ _ . - . . . - _ , . . - .m, , _ _ _ _ , _ _..-,., m .
. 17,141 . #6-10-SueW 1 But, the NRC, if it licenses Shoreham displays an O 2 intolerable arrogance by putting us all at risk.
3 It is crucial to keep in mind the many layers of 4 questions that demand action. Does an operational Shoreham 5 make economic sense? Should we demand compliance with the 6 principle of states' rights and uphold Congressional intent? 7 How do we integrate the nature of this specific technology 8 with our cultural standards of progress? 9 When is it reasonable to admit a mistake, stop 10 the project and preclude the potential for catastrophe? 11 Parenthetically, we ought to look at and learn from NASA's ! 12 recent fatal mistake in judgment and its failure to admit l
,m
( ,! 13 the potential for disaster under which it was operating. 14 I am convinced that Shoreham poses unnecessary 15 and unreasonable risks, both in terms of economics and 16 safety. And, the NRC should not grant it an operating 17 license. 18 Thank you. 19 (Applause.) 20 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dr. Leonora Broadwin. 21 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 22 OF 23 DR. LEONORA BROADWIN 24 DR. BROADWIN: My name is Dr. Leonora Broadwin. Oederaf Reporters, /t c Inc. I 25 am a full professor of English at St. Johns University, and a
17,142
# -ll-SueW 1 concerned citizen of Freeport.
e 2 I am concerned that the actuarial time bomb of 3 Shoreham should not be put in operation, not be given a 4 license, and I consider it to be a time bomb for a combination 5 of three factors. 6 First, there is the dangerous nuclear technology 7 it involves. Secondly, the problem of worker error. And i 8 that's both on the level of the construction workers, in 9 the mob's invested construction industries who built Shoreham, 10 and the danger of operator error, which was the case in 11 Chernobyl. The third is the problem of management careerism. 12 On all forms of industry, government or private, managers are 13 more concerned for their own career than for the public 14 safety. They see that those who blow the whistle get demoted 15 or fired and that those who play ball move ahead. i 16 And, it is easy not to think of the unthinkable. i 17 The disaster with which we are concerned is so unthinkable 18 that the mind refuses to contemplate it in the face of 19 personal needs. 20 Now, careerism on the management level and worker 21 error on the operator level are endemic all over.in America, 22 no more nor less than Russia. But, when they are combined with i 23 a dangerous nuclear technology, the risk simply is too great 24 for energy purposes. . 2$eral Reporters, Inc.
- 25 I grew up, as you did, believing in the dream of the i
17,143 66-12-SueW l peaceful uses of atomic power, how-it would create' cheap 9 2 energy and a heaven on earth. And, with that dream the nuclear 3 business developed and was supported. But, we are now in' a 4 new age where we have learned the dangers of this technology. 5 The proability, I have heard, is that there will 6 be a major disaster from some nuclear power plant before: the 7 year 2000. And, given the possibilities of worker error and 8 management cover-ups, as was true in Three Mile Island and 9 Chernobyl in which cases the severity was not appreciated 10 because it was unthinkable, there is a clear danger of 11 catastrophic accident. 12 Under these circumstances, the situation.in Nassau 13 County and in Long Island would clearly be more catastrophic 14 than anyplace else. If we take the worst case scenario of a 15 meltdown with a southwest plume, at rush hour, and we have'to 16 take precisely that scenario, there would be an incredible 17 disaster. 18 We know from Chernobyl that that accident released 19 more cesium 137 than all the nuclear bombs that have been 20 exploded, put together. And, with its half life of 30 years , 21 it would make Long Island land and ground water uninhabitable 22 for at least 30 years. 23 The liability to'LILCO for this, for the loss of i 24 property, of jobs and of lives would be far more than the four-oderal Reporters, Inc. 25 billion' dollars involved in the construction of.the plant.
~ . - - .
17,144 13-SueW 1 All of this put together argues strongly against 2 allowing such a dangerous technology to be operated in the 3 face of known human weakness. As I look at you gentlemen, ! 4 you seem no better nor worse than-most people. But, you have j < 5 been placed in.a situation that demands the most of you, 1-6 that demands that you do better than yourselves because the i 7 safety of the people of Long Island is in your hands. 8 I pray that you will rise to this high responsibility, 9 Thank you.
; 10 (Applause.)
11 JUDGE MARGULIES: Professor Hugo Gionatti. i 12 l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT , 13 OF 14 HUGO GIONATTI I
. 15 l PROFESSOR GIONATTI: Gentlemen, my name is Hugo i i i
16 l Gionatti. I am a consulting engineer. i I ! 1 17 This stuff is great for atom bombs, but it's really -+ 1 18 it's a lousy thermodynamic fuel. But, we are not here to 3 19 discuss that kind of thing, technical problems really or even 20 economic problems. Strictly evacuation. 21 And, just putting myself in your position, l 22 apparently you must rationally seek out the flaws of the 23 evacuation plan. In order to evacuate safely, there must , 1 l 24 be cooperation between those that are to be evacuated and the ! ederal Reporters, Inc. l 25 ones responsible for evacuation, and the facilities required mus' : ) ! l , -l
17,145
.#6-14-SueW I be in place. You and LILCO say that it is reasonable to
@ 2 assume that the state, the county, local government, and bus 3 drivers, et cetera will all come running when required.
4 Prove it. There is your flaw. 5 It is your responsibilty to prove this to us. If 6 one of the three parties involved, the NRC, LILCO and the 7 consumers, has not been shown any proof satisfactory to them, 8 it's not proof. 9 You say that adequate facilities are available. 10 Prove it. There is your flaw. li You say the roads are adequate to handle the 12 traffic. Prove it. There is your flaw. g ( _/ 13 Is Shoreham secure against terrorist attacks? 14 Prove it. There is your flaw. 15 Well, you say what the hell. This is all for naught 16 anyway, because Shoreham is designed not to have an accident. 17 That, gentlemen, you cannot prove. 18 It is truly unfortunate that evacuation is at the 19 bottom of the list of the licensing procedure. If the 20 procedures were to be written today, it might be at the top. 21 Obviously, conditions and opinoin, in retrospect, fuel and 22 energy options, economics, et cetera, have put nuclear energy l l 23 itself in a different light. l 24 But, you must follow an old manual even though it's A. 0 etat M Reporters, lm I 25 obsolete. Redundant safety systems are important. Evacuation
17,146
# SueW 1 is more important. Backup generators are important. Evacuation 2 is more important. Operator competency is important. Evacua-3 tion is more important.
4 The people in this room and on this Island will 5 rewrite this manual. This is an island, don't you understand? 6 It's not Three Mile Island; it's Long Island. It is one 7 of the most thriving, progressive, desirable areas in the 8 country. Why must we even worry about evacuation? 9 Shoreham does not belong on this Island. 10 (Applause.) i 11 ! PROFESSOR GIONATTI: Let the Chinese come in and 12 dismantle it and take it away. China needs it; we don't. 13 Your own FEMA man in the field during the sham test, l l 14 h Mr. Petrone, stated that a safe evacuation could not be 1 0 15 h assured. His statement was deleted, and he resigned rather l 16 than retract. 17ll Obviously, you have been told to license Shoreham 18 at any cost. Rewrite the rules if necessary. How many flaws 19 must we find before you are satisfied? Even one flaw is one 20 too many, just as the 0-ring seal in the shuttle was a minor 21 l but fatal flaw. 22 Will you only be convinced when the final flaw does 23 us all in? 24 (Applause.) 4eoere nwoners, Am inc. 25 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dr. Jean Christie.
17,147
.#6-16-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT l
[' 2 OF 4 3 DR. JEAN CHRISTIE 4 4 DR. CHRISTIE: Good afternoon. My name is Jean ] 5 Christie. I am a historian and a retired professor of history. 6 I live in Great Neck. 7 I speak today for the North Shore Coalition for 8 Safe Energy which comprises a number of community organizations 9 and individuals on the North Shore of Long Island. We believe 10 that the Shoreham Nuclear Plant should never open. - 11 We could present numerous reasons and weigh the
- 12 evidence. You have heard much of it. The long, narrow shape l
) 13 of Long Island,'its congested highways, and -- what you 14 haven't heard this afternoon, the existance of alternatives, 15 methods of getting electricity such as conservation'and the 16 availability of Canadian power, for example.
1 17 However, in these few minutes I will focus on the 18 lessons which we must learn from Chernobyl. As we've heard, 19 LILCO proposes to evacuate the inhabitants of a 10-mile radius 20 around the plant. But, as we have also heard the Soviets 21 initially evacuated the residents of.a radius of 18.6 miles. 1
- 22 And, according to recent reports, they have evacuated by now 1
23 135,000 persons in the Chernoby) area. They are constructing h Aw.oer : Reporters, Inc. 24 a complete new town to resettle some 30,000 people. ! 25 No. Evacuation in that case means abandonment. We , I
- I i
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.#6-17-SueW l don't know when human beings can again make their homes in O 2 that zone. Do we want this for Long Island?
3 A new study by the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories 4 reported in last Tuesday's " Times" -- and that Laboratory is 5 certainly not hostile to nuclear development -- has found that 6 the reactor, the Soviet reactor, may even have emitted 50 7 percent more radioactive cesium -- it has a half life of 30 8 years, by the way -- than have the total of atmospheric tests 9 and the two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan. 10 Cesium, of course, radioactive cesium, can cause 11 ' cancer and genetic disease. The Chernobyl plant emitted 12 more than eight tons of highly radioactive material. Nor, I'T l (, 13 p according to that same report, had entombing the reactor in li 14 L concrete prevented possible further danger, because the concrete 15 [ may have a " reliable design life" of only about 50 years. 16 Far away from Chernobyl, radiation descended on 17 !! Western Europe. I happened to be there several months after
- 8 this, after it happened, and a parent told me of how she had 19 been warned not to let her child play on the grass -- it might 20 be contaminated. Farmers' crops were, of course, destroyed.
21 In Wales, lambs were contaminated. And, quite pathetically 22 really, in the northern most regions of Scandinavia, reindeer 1 23 L meat -- which is a staple of the diet in Lapland -- is being a 9 A . r;Stai Reporters, Inc. 24 25 withheld from human consumption and fed to minks. And, I wonder what happens to the cesium after the minks? We haven't
17,149 SueW I heard that. 2 We may never know the precise number of cancer 3 deaths that will be caused by Chernobyl. And, in other 4 aspects of that disaster, accounts and estimates-are varied 5 and confusing. But, all are horrifying. 6 At the International Conference of Experts in 7 Vienna, modest estimates anticipated 24,000. deaths. And the 8 American scientist, John Goffman, believes there will be 320,000, 9 Some suggest even larger numbers. 10 Yes, the disaster may have resulted from human 11 l error. Do we know any infallible technician, any infallible 12 technical systems? Well, the record, of course, shows that ; 13 it-is otherwise. 14 Some error is inevitable. I believe the NRC itself 15 has stated that there is almost a 50 percent chance of a core 16 meltdown in the United States by the close of the century. 17 The consequences of a nuclear accident then are on a scale 18 that dwarfo all other catastrophes. 19 As I stand here repeating facts about Chernobyl, I 20 must confess that I have a feeling of unreality. After count-21 less near disasters, after Three Mile Island, after Chernobyl, i 22 how can it be that anyone can still propose to open the i- 23 Shoreham plant? l 9 Federal Reporters, 24 Inc.I might mention I am a historian in the Twentieth 25 Century history of America. It's an old story, that commissions i 1
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17,150 19-SueW 1 which were set up to protect the public have very, very often 2 slid into the position of becoming the allies and, I might even 3 say, the creatures of the very interests that they are 4 supposed to regulate. 5 We hope that you will demonstrate that you are 6 an exception. I would like to close by quoting the words of 7 Culvis Anthony Lewis, as he was meditating on Chernobyl. "We 8 cannot undue technology or close our scientists' minds. But we 9 can be more modest in our pretentions. We can stop playing 10 God. We can stop placing blind faith in technology that is 11 not infallible and never can be. We can remember both the 12 preciousness of humanity and its imperfection." 13 Thank you, end #6 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 9As
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25
7-1-gjw 17,151' a 1 JUDGE MARGULES: Lyman Vunk? O 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 OF 4 LYMAN VUNK
~
5 MR. VUNK: Good af ternoon, . gentlemen. I live 6 just down the plume a bit in . Port Washington. And I have 4 7 heard just about enough testimony.
; 8 If I were pro-Shoreham, I sure i.couldn't be now.
i 9 after what I have heard today, and of course I have lived 10 here for quite a while, and I havet been . anti-Shoreham for 11 a long time. 12 There is not much I can add. But one thing 13 occurs to me that I don't know -- it may have been 14 mentioned out in Suffolk, but I haven't heard anything 15 about it so far today, and Ethat is this: Assemblywoman 16 May Newburger this morning called Shoreham a time bomb. l'7 I think that is a very apt description. 18 Someone also mentioned the fact that nothing i 19 has been done about a study at Shoreham being an opportunity l i . 20 for terrorists. Do you realize that, to use John Matthew's 21 fiture also this morning, four million people on Long Island r i 22 are being held hostage by terrorists, i l 23 And it is not the PLO, it is not Khadafi, it is I 24 not the IRA, it is the NRC. We thought Shoreham had been As adoral Reporters, Inc. 25 closed half a dozen times for sure. But something always 4 r
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_ , , , . . . ~
7-2 -gj w 17,152
, I happens to keep the doggone thing alive.
O 2 In the meantime, we are sitting here waiting for 3 the low power and all the leaks and the shutdowns and 4 everything else , it is like waiting for the other shoe to 5 drop. 6 Everybody on the Island is pretty doggone nervous 7 about Shoreham, and the NRC, as I say, is a terrorist that 8 can release us from this hostage situation, and surely 9 you heard enough testimony today, so I don't have to repeat 10 any of it. 11 Please do it. Thank you. 12 (Applause.)
. 's ;
i f 13 JUDGE MARGULIES: Claudia Ree? I 14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 ! OP 1 i 16 LEE KLINGER LESSER {! 17; MS. LESSER: Excuse me. My name is Lee Klinger I 18 Lesser, and I am speaking for Claudia Ree, who had to leave , 19 and I have to leave shortly. 20 JUDGE MARGULIES: You may proceed. 21 MS. LESSER: Thank you very much. We came and 22 waited with our children, and I am asking you please, but 23 I assume that you are parents or grandparents, and if you
/m l 1 24 ,i are, I want to ask you: What about the children?
- t. . der i neponeri, Inc. i 25 I am also a teacher. I have a class of four year
7-3-gjw 17,153
, 1 old children.
2 If there is an emergency, it is just impossible , 3 for us to get the children back with their parents', and 4 if they are exposed to radiation, what is going to happen 5 to our children when they grow up, if they ever have a 6 chance to grow up? 7 We have accidents all the time. There are all 8 kind of accidents, but if there is a nuclear accident, there 9 is no way of recalling it, and how do we clean the air, and 10 how do we clean the water? , 11 I try very hard to feed my son healthy food. But 12 l what am I going to do when I have no clean water to give e- i 13 l; him, and no clean air to breathe? (x_/ li 14 Please take care of my children. 15 (Applause.) 16 I JUDGE MARGULIES: Mike Benesendro? Joanne E. i 17 l Kemnitzer? 18 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i 19 , OF 20 JOANNE E. KEMNITZER 21 MS. KEMNITZER: I couldn't bring my children in the 22 flesh, so I thought you would like to see a pi.cture of 23 them. These are my two little boys, Max who is now nine, 24 and Alexander, who is now four. 9.-ederal Reporters, Inc. e 25 I work in !!untington, Max goes to school in
I i 7-4 -gjw 17,154 1 Montauk, Alexander goes to nursery school in Levittown. 2 Huntington is about fifteen miles from Montaux and Levittown. 3 And if I had to get there quick, I wouldn't be l 4 able to,. and I would just like to tell you about something 5 that happened ten years ago. There was a blackout on the 6 North Shore of Long Island, it was in the middle of the 7 winter, and people didn't have lights, and they didn't have 8 heat. And Max was a baby. 9 And it took us over three hours to get from the 10 l North Shore to the South Shore. Now, that was people with 11 ! no lights and no heat, and I really don't want to think about 12 ' how those people would act if they were afraid for their fus/ 13 _ childrens lives. la This hearing is to reevaluate the necessity for 15 t an evacuation plan, and I plead with you, please, try to 16 move the people. Try. I am sure everybody here would 17 love the opportunity to prove to you'that it can't be 18 done. 19 Just one more thing. The documented flaws of the . 20 workmanship of the Shoreham nuclear power plant make it 21 a reality. It is not if there is an accident, but when. l l 22 1 And from all the testimony that you have heard 23 today, how you can believe what LILCO has told you is 24 beyond my capacity as a thinking person to believe that 9. m federal Fleporters. Inc. 25 you can believe them.
7-5-gjw 17,155
,_. 1 Af ter everything that you have heard.
)
"' My third plea is please, tonight, when you leave, 2
3 drive to the airport. Don't have someone drive you. Don't 4 take a helicopter. Get in a car and drive, and then 5 imagine your wife and your children in a car with you, and 6 a plume of radioactivity about five miles behind you, and 7 there is a western wind. 8 That is all. Thank you. 9 (Applause.) 10 JUDGE MARGULIES: Victor Skulnick? Charlotte 11 i Sky? Lee Klinger Leckter? Sharon Goldbloom? Margaret 12 Malcomenian, r r~' > l 1, ) _ 13 l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT I la i OF i 15 MARGARET MALCOMENIAN 16 , MS. MALCOMENIAN: My name is Margaret Malcomenian, l 17 Director of the Long Island Alliance to Prevent Nuclear War. 18 I live in Uniondale, home of the Nassau County 19 Veterans Coliseum. I am here to speak for the children of 20 Long Island, including my four sons. 21 The Nuclcar Regulatory Commission is a regulatory 22 agency. The protection and safety of human life should be 23 its highest goal. How can we trust the Government to protect 9 24 Ac -rederal Fleporters, Inc. 25 us and our children in light of Three Mile Island, release of radioactivity at Hanford, and yesterday's report by s
7-6-gjw 17,156 1 Senator Glenn, with regard to nuclear reactors of the O.a 2 Department of Energy production, and the contamination of 3 air, soil, and ground water around these reactors. 4 What do we know about Shoreham? It has design 5 problems. It has a proposed evacuation plan, without the 6 Nassau Coliseum, onc that any thinking person knows won' t 7 work. 8 The lessons of the Chernobyl disaster is that 9 nuclear technology is fallible, that radioactivity'knows 10 no borders, that a ten mile radious is absurd. 11 Nuclear technology is an unforgiving technology 12 that threatens our air, water, land, for hundreds and O ( )f 13 hundreds of years. 14 Why are we not considering phasing out nuclear 15 power plants. I ask you gentlemen to consider your
~16 families, your children, and grandchildren. Che rnobyl 17 has taught us that we share a universal vulnerability 18 in the face of nuclear power and nuclear weapons. What 19 is your decision? Shoreham is in your back yard.'
20 (Applause.) 21 JUDGE MARGULIES: Stephen Benson? 22 MS. FEUERSTEIN: I saw Mr. Benson leave, and the 23 reason why I would like to be the person to read Assemblyman 24 Yevoli's message to you is that he is a very old and dear A Sederet Reporters, Inc. 25
7-7-gjw 17,157 i I friend of mine, one of the most wonderful legislators in
/ \ \~ 2 Nassau County, and a man that I greatly respect.
3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4 OF 5 BONNIE FEURSTEIN 4 6 MS. FEURSTEIN: This is the statement by Assemblymar. ) 7 Lewis J. Vevoli: As a New York State Legislator from 8 Long Island, I have come forward today to point out. the '~ 9 absurdity of safely evacuating Long Island in case of a 1 10 nuclear accident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. My 11 case will be short and clear. 12 Have you ever travelled the roads of Long Island? f% (,) 13 Every resident of Long Island has been conducting-an 14 evacuation test every day of their lives on Long Island. 15 Going to an'd from work, going to and from the 16 shopping center, bringing children to and from school. 17 Long Island residents have been showing the impossibility 18 of evacuating Long -Island safely by being caught for hours 19 and hours of inpenetratable traffic on ' the Long Island 20 Expressway, on the Northern State Parkway, on the Southern 21 State Parkway, and so on and so on, and so on. 22 Furthermore, Long Island residents have tested 23 the feasibility of any evacuation by plan by being stuck 24 and stranded in snow storms, and the aftermath of Hurricanes, Aadoral Reporters, Inc. 25 Imagine over two and a half million residents
7-8-gjw 17,158 1 of Nassau and Suffolk County scrambling to evacuate .their 2 homes over the few bridges which connect our Island to the 3 mainland. 4 One thing I also find mindboggling, is why af ter 5 spending five billion dollars on a mismanaged nuclear 6 power plant, you are just considering the feasibility of 7 evacuating our Island after a disaster? 8 Just think of it. It you would have done this 9 before, you would have saved five billion dollars. 10 There is no way to evacuate Long Island. Any 11 plan is a Charade. Do not allow an error in judgment i 12 ! to become a tragic decision which would endanger the well (_) 13 heing of every man, woman, and child on Long Island. I 14 l Thank you. i 15 l (Applause.) i 16 I JUDGE MARGULIES: Robert Sanguist? LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 17 l 18 OF 19 ROBERT SANQUIST 20 biR . SANQUIST: I feel like I am here in a din 21 of inequity with everybody against you, and insulting you, 22 and telling you to look at them while they talk to you, i 23 Now, at Shoreham, everybody is talking about the , 1 24 evacuation plan. They want the whole island to be evacuated. l l A. were Reponm. w. I 25 This is not the point. The point is only a ten l
7-9-gjw 17,159 1 mile. area around Shoreham. If you were to evacuate the 2 whole island, then you have to close down all the nuclear 3 reactors in Connecticut, and right here , we are closer 4 to the Indian Point nuclear reactor than we are to Shoreham. 5 And if anything happened up there, we would have 6 the same thing here. 7 So, you have to stick to your guns and only take 8 in the ten mile area around Shoreham, and not expand it 9 for the whole island like everbody is talking. 10 The people here all talking about this large 1 11 i are a , and they are conducting fear tactics to the people, l 12 and everybody is so afraid of everything around it, when ( , ( ,! 13 Franklin Roosevelt first was in office, he said: The only 14 thing we have to fear is fear itself. And the only thing we have to fear about Shoreham 15; l 16 l is the fear that the people are telling about it. The 17 damage that these people are doing to the Island is 18 starting to come into effect today. Grumman, the largest 19 employee on Long Island, is piece by piece sending their 20 company out. 21 We have Sperry over here in Lake Success. They 22 were bought out by Burroughs. Burroughs today wants to sell 23 their aerospace, and only keep their computer business. 24 And as soon as they do that, they probably will
-c;ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 have to leave the Island,.too, on account of the high taxes
7=10-gjw 17,160 1 and the high cost of electricity. 2 This Island here, if we don't have nuclear power 3 we will become a vast wasteland, because in about thirteen 4 years or so we are going to go into the third milliniam, 5 and oil supplies of the world are going to come to nothing, 6 and before the oil supplies run out, the price of oil is 7 going to go sky high, and everybody will heat their homes 8 with oil. They have got to look for another fuel. 9 The cars that run on gasoline will have to electric 10 cars. And we have an awful burden ahead of us here on 11 ;l Long Island without Shoreham. Af ter Shoreham is licensed, t 12 ' I wish they would build a few more of them because they 13 will be surely needed. 14 , And I thank you for the opportunity of telling i 15 l you that. 16 (Applause.) 17 AUDIENCE: Give him a hand. He has guts. 18 (Applause.) 19 JUDGE MARGULIES: Andrew Coyer? Bill Stillwagon? 20 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 21 OF 22 BILL STILLWAGON 23 MR, STILLWAGON: I am kind of glad that fellow e 24 i just spoke, because . it leads right into my little speech. Iederal Reporters, Inc. 25 My name is Bill Stillwagon, and I came out from
?-ll-gjw- l'7,161 , I Riverhead. I was unable to make the herings there yesterday, ,m U 2 so I traveled in here today.
3 I have participated in an emergency evacuation. 4 I feel what I has to say is important. Please understand 5 that my remarks are not directed to you personally, especially 6 my closing remarks, but rather to those supposed authorities 7 who think they can control an evacuation. 8 There has been literally tons of scientific 9 data on what could,would, may, can't, or might happen in the 10 event of a nuclear accident at Shoreham. 11 Through all this technical mumbo-jumbo only fear 12 and confusion < has resulted. Human nature,'o n the other t'n (,) 13 hand, is relatively easy to grasp. Here are a few items 14 on human nature. Survival,-protection of the family 15 unit, fear. 16 The majority of people don't understand nuclear 17 power. Just the word, ' nuclear' strikes fear in their 18 heart. 19 No amount of public education or propaganda will 20 change that. They don't trust it, they never will, and 21 they certainly don't trust LILCO. 22 What we have is a mass of terrified people. 23 Family protection instincts and survival will take over. 24 People fleeing. A at Reporters, Inc. 25 While serving with the United States Marines in
17-12-gjv 17,162 i i Vietnam, I had the unfortunate mission to participat'e in a i 1 mass civilian emergency evacuation of two refugee camps 2 i 3 between Fu-Bai and the Citidel of Hui City. The first 4 camp was a temporary. holding area, an area of newly arrived 5 refugees, .about a hundred and fif ty. The second, east I 6 along the only road to say, was a camp of three hundred and . 4 7 fifty. e ^ ! 8 The escape route offered only one direction: East, l j 9 to the sea. Long Island's residents are of fered only one i j 10 escape direction: .W est, to the mainland. I q 11 Flying aboard a helicopter-as door gunner we were 12 called in to intercept a small enemy force mortaring a 13 refugee camp. When we arrived over the strike zone , it 14 became immediately apparent we were dealing with a much 15 larger force. Fighter plans confirmed the company-sized t 16 NVA force set on line and ready to advance on the camp. 17 The small combined national platoon in the camp 18 was ordered to begin an evacuation. Jour' helicopter was i 19 to provide cover fire. When marine' corps jets arrived, 20 we dropped into the camp to evacuate wounded and children.
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21 No wounded and very few children boarded. The 22 bird was immediately filled to the overhead with panic-23 striken refugees. I a I (} A- oderal Reporters, Inc. 24 We raised the ramp and lif ted out to about ten 25 feet when the crew chief notified the pilot that a woman had j
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17,163 7-13-gjw 1 her foot stuck in the ramp. We immediately dropped. A 2 vietnamese man hanging from the landing gear was crushed.
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3 At that point, most of the people obviously thinking we 4 were shot down, disembarked and ran. We freed the woman's foot from the ramp -- and it was almost in half. And-5 6 she was screaming horribly. 7 We lifted the remainder of the people to the east 8 a couple of miles. On our second run we ran in firing our 9 weapons in the air. This kept the refugees from boarding, 10 as we were able to embark the wounded and children. 11 We < returned toi the camp again, but didn't land, 12 I but remained overhead to provide cover for the evacuation 13 and medevac if needed. 14 From the air, I got a birdseye view of the most 15 ! ugly and hysterical exodus. By this time, the refugees 16 were out of range of hostile fire, and they were running 17 through the next camp. Instead of slowing, it got worse. 18 The people in the next camp panicked as well. 19 South Vietnamese army troops rusing west to do battle with 20 the enemy had to fight through the onslaught of refugees. 21 The Army tried to control the evacuation, but' 22 simply gave up. The refugees could not be calmed. 23 They were running for their lives, or so they thought. 24 The refugees were pushing old men and children and weak ones
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25 out of the way. Anyone who fell, was trampled. l l
L7,164 7-14-gjw 1 They knocked others off their bikes and scooters
'h 2 and took them for themselves. There were dozens. of people 3 injured, and some died in panic. Nothing mattered except 4 getting away.
5 Survival. 6 These were good and gentle people, not savages. 7 Their panic was born of a fear of what could harm them.
; 8 So what does a war situation have to do with a peaceful 9 nuclear plant? Plenty.
10 For a moment, just for a basis of comparison, 11 let us think of a mortar attack versus a nuclear accident. 12 As frightening as it is, you can understand the mortar. It j 13 drops it, it explodes, it is over. 14 You can take cover, you can hit the dirt, you 15 can protect your family. .When it is over, life goes on 16 as usual. 17 After a nuclear accident, life doesn't go on 18 as usual, if at all. In either case we would be bombarded. 19 Mortar spreads shrapnel, nuclear accidents spread radiation. 20 After a battle, everything calms down. The 21 immediate threat to human life and health is less,- and 22 the temporary emotional upheaval levels off, and your ! 23 psyche relaxes. I I 24 With a nucle'ar accident, the psyche doesn't oderal Reporters, Inc. I 25 relax. It knows the threat is still there, it knows the l
7-15-gjw 17,165 m 1 threat is invisible, which makes it all the more frightening . l 2 We have all been taught since childhood to be 3 afraid of things that go bump in the night. We are scared 4 of things that are there, but can't be seen. And a radiatio.T 5 that can't be seen from a nuclear accident is the most 6 frightening of all. 7 In the event of a nuclear accident at Shoreham, 8 the mass hysteria would make the horror I viewed in Vietnam 9 seem like a Disney cartoon. 10 I spoke of five hundred people. Multiply that 11 many times one thousand. A half million people excaping the 12 ! east end by two major roads on any summer day. 13 One hundred thousand on any winter day. American i 14 ' refugees. There will be no war, there will be no water. 15 l There will only be survival of the fittest. Anarchy will 16 ! prevail. 17 A major contributing factor to the panic is the 18 fact that the evacuation won't begin until after a 19 nuclear accident has occurred. If we could be told that 20 in four days there will be an accident at Shoreham, perhaps 21 we could evacuate somewhat orderly. 22 i But what we will be told is: Four minutes ago 23 f there was an accident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 24 Don't expect me or anyone else to waste time 9rederal Reporters, A Inc. 25 getting away. My first loyalty is to my family, as is
7-16-gjw 17,166 1 yours. Nothing short of a bullet will stop me from 2 evacuating my family to safety. 3 Search deep down in your soul. Look at your 4 children, your spouse , your parents. Doesn't it make-5 you feel good? 6 What would you do to protect them from danger? 7 Would you let them down? I doubt it. You love them 8 enough to do anything to keep them save from harm. Would 9 you fight to save them? Of course you would. 10 When it comes right down to it, you would fight 11 like an animal to protect them. You would fight like 12 I a cavage to save them from harm. Your family is your life, and without them everything else is meaningless.
) 13 14 Everyone I speak to feels the same way. No l
15 ' national guardsman, no state trooper, no police officer 16 - and certainly no LILCO employee, no one will hold these 17 people back. 18 Talk to them about it and see the seriousness 19 in their eyes. They will not sit patiently in their 20 cars while the authorities direct other . escaping refugees 21 to pass in front of them. 22 You see, panic has a snowballing effect.- As it 23 goes, it gets larger and more. wild, much like a nuclear I i () 24 hs oderal Reporters, Inc. I reaction. 25 I am not a violent man. I have seen enough
7-17-gjw 17,167
, i suffering and hurt to last me a lifetime. I strive daily 9 2 for tranquility and harmony.
3 But you are coming too close now. You are 4 causing my family anxiety and fear, and that makes me 5 angry. As to LILCO evacuation authorities, I don't make 6 threats; I make promises. 7 And I feel I can speak for the majority of the 8 People who love their families. If Shoreham opens, and 9 there is a nuclear accident, here is the bottom line : If 10 you try to stop me, I will stop you. 11 (Applause.) 12 JUDGE MARGULIES: Thomas Kelly? (~ ! s)i s 13 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 14 OF 15 THOMAS KELLY 16 MR. KELLY: Gentlemen . Before I read my 17 prepared remarks, I would just like to comment briefly 18 on two of my own personal experiences here on Long Island. 19 I am not native to Long Island. My first 20 experience on the Island occurred in the Spring of 1979, 21 when I arrived at JFK airport to attend some business here 22 on the island. 23 It was about two o' clock in the morning by the 24 time I got through customs, and my' very first impression
- oderal Reporters, Inc.
A 25 of the island was from the window of a taxicab entering
7-18-gjw 17,168
, 1 onto the Belt Parkway, which runs along the southern part 2 of Long Island.
3 My very first impression was of the incredible 4 amount of traffic that we were confronted with. After 5 several miles of traveling the Belt Parkway onto the 6 ' southern state, the traffic congestion did not improve, 7 and yet I was unable to see at any point along the road 8 any reason for it. 9 There was no road construction, or accident 10 of any sort. 11 Now, it may have been raining that evening, and l 12 those of us who live on Long Island know what rain can [\ (,,) 13 do to traffic. Our roads are not that well built. The 14 ; drainage on these roads is often a major problem, that 15 causes incredible traffic tie-ups even on the best of 16 t occasions. I 17 The second experience that I had occured in 18 April several years ago when we had a snow storm that 19 dropped about ten inches of snow on Long Island over 20 a period of several hours. 21 I was at my place of business awaiting my wife's 22 arrival to pick me up and take me home, and I waited, and 23 I waited, and I waited. And finally my wife was able f"'N j } 24 to contact me about midnight from a restaurant where i Levederal Reporters, Inc. l 25 quite a few people were situated, having attempted to
17,169 7-19-gjw 1 traverse Jerrico Turnpike, which is four lane road through 2 the commercial district of Long Island, which had become 3 the following morning, I realized, five lanes of traf fic 4 heading in the easterly direction, all of which had come 5 to a complete standstill. 6 My name is Thomas Kelly, I am a resident of 7 Huntington Station, Long Island, and I present myself 8 simply as a citizen of the Republic. 9 For the six years that my wife and I have resided 10 on Long Island, I have watched in silence the debate between 11 LILCO and those it represents, and the citizens of Long 12 Island opposed to the opening of the Shoreham Nuclear Plant. (_) 13 End 7. 14 I i 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 l 23 i l 24 9.-aderal Reporters, Am Inc. 25 , 1 s
17,170 Sim 8-1 , While perannally oppnsad to tha opening of Shoreham, I am breaking my silence and am appearing for the first time in my life in a public forum for reasons far removed from the question of whether or not'the resident s f L ng Island can be safely and expeditiously evacuated 5 from their homes. 6 It should be obvious to all that the expressions 7 orderly evacuation and Long Island are mutually exclusive and unworthy of serious debate. g (Applause.) As a student of politics I long ago learned that 11 most political events are shaped or manipulated by economic 12 concerns. While lip service is concurrently paid to the 13 Democratic traditions which gave them succor. Today's [/ x_ 14 forum and the issue at hand are not exception. 15 The NRC itself, for example, obviously does 16 5 not represent the interests of the people of Long Island. s 17 g Your appointments and your previous votes on this issue g 18 testify to that fact. j 19 l The people of this community have expressed j 20 g their opinion boldly and demonstrably. We have elected 21 { j local officials with few exceptions who have reflected 22 the will of the great majority of Long Islanders. 23 Your presence here today is a result of 24 an end run around this process. Just who do you represent, l l l l
17,171 Sim _8-2 1 gentlemen? 2 I have heard many witnesses ask you today to / i
)
3 deny LILCO's request for a license. I will not be so kind. 4 I demand that you reject LILCO's request and return to 5 Washington and tell President Reagan that his efforts 6 to decentralize the Federal Government and simultaneously 7 return power to the State and local government where the 8 will of the people is so eloquently expressed. 9 Tell him that his efforts have resulted in 10 great success on Long Island. We are not children in need 11 of the paternal intervention of the Federal Government. 12 We have decided this issue for ourselves. 13 It is your duty, gentlemen, to express that 14 decision in a unanimous denial of LILCO's request. 15 Thank you.- 16 (Applause.) 3 j 37 JUDGE MARGULIES: We will take more one t
= 18 speaker and then recess this afternoon's session.
E g 39 We will start up again this evening at 6 p.m. a j 20 Thomas M. Kirchmer. 2 d 21 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT E E OF 22 23 THOMAS M. KIRCHMER 24 MR. KIRCHMER: Good afternoon. 25 My name is Thomas M. Kirchmer, and I am a.
17,172 1 Sim 8-3 1 resident of New Hyde Park. l 2 Please excuse any nervousness, but I get l 3 nervous speaking in front of a public hearing or the like, 4 and I get nervous speaking for a traffic ticket. 5 But this is in effect a traffic offense, and 6 I do a let driving on Long Island. I drive around 300 7 miles a week and I can't foresee how an evacuation can 8 take place. 9 Now I know you have been speaking of a 10-mile 10 radius of Shoreham, and I don't live in that area. My 33 parents do, and I would like to share a humorous anecdote, 12 if I may. 13 Around a year or so ago on Thanksgiving there 34 was an explosion at a fire works factory in Mastic, and 15 that was several miles from my parents' apartment and 16 they felt a shock. Their first reaction was Shoreham g 37 blew up. , ,g Now we may think of that and laugh, but it } 3g a serious thing because it is on their minds and these are a ! p pl who are 60 and 70 years old, and I am sure that they 20 3 don't really understand the workings of a nuclear power a @ plant. I don't. 23 u They are concerned and I am concerned for them. In the event of an evacuation I don't think they could yea ae e apa mn . ey are ge ng n 25
17,173 Sim 8-4 1 in years and they are nervous in a stressful situation, and 2 .that is what you will find. 3 What I wanted to say is that I oppose the 4 opening of the Shoreham plant and please don't regulate 5 it. 6 (Applause.) 7 JUDGE MARGULIES: Let me tell you who we have 8 scheduled yet to speak so they will receive priority this e evening. Heather Stanley, Mary Ellen Cray, Burt H. Wallace,, 10 Vincent Garbatelle, Gail Youngleson, Richard Jewry and 11 David Fisher. 12 We will call those people in that order. 13 MS. CRAY: Excuse me, I am Mary Ellen Cray, ! ,) 34 and I will not be able to come back this evening. Is there 15 a way that -- I have a very short statement. 16 JUDGE MARGULIES: We will take your statement. s h 17 MS. CRAY: Thank you. e
- 18 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT j 19 OF i
! 20 MARY ELLEN CRAY s
21 MS. CRAY: I live at 436 Locust Avenue in
- Uniondale.
22 23 Our Uniondale Community Council voted at its 24 general meeting on September 16th for me to represent it 25 in its concerns about the evacuation in the event of a
17,174 Sim 8-5 i nuclear accident at Shoreham. This poorly thoughtout, hastily thrown together 2 idea of using the Nassau Veterans Memorial Colosseum 3 located in Uniondale as a decontamination point for victims 4 f unsafe conditions at the Shoreham facility is appalling. 5 The people of Uniondale are compassionate. They are involved in many activities helping the less 7 fortunate. It is not because.they don't want to help 8 g their fellows, but they oppose use of the colosseum as a decontamination site. o Their concern is the unworkability of the plan and the danger of contamination of the water supply, a water supply which has already been threatened by a plume of chemical pollution endangering one of the Union-(x.s) 14 dale water wells. 15 Because we live here, we are especially aware I of the fragility of our water resources and the risks which 17 2 the proposed use of the colosseum for decontamination
!; 19 present. $ Because we live here we are especially aware j 20 4 of the population and tarffic factors which will combine 21 a
j to thward this fantasy of evacuation. 22 We certainly cannot call it a plan. It is 23 a nightmare. Traffic in this are can't be controlled even 24 on a normal day. l l l 1
17,175 Sim 8-6 I urge you not to license Shoreham. It has been placed in a most undesirable and dangerous location. It has been plagued by safety problems, desite the fact that my family is so unfortunate as to own LILCO stock. This is not in our best interests. 5 It has been ill-designed from the beginning, 6 bedeviled during its building, unsafe and dangerous. 7 Please remenber that after Chernobyl there is 8 no way that those fleeing a Shoreham accident would be 9 limited to the supposed 10-mile radius, and our experience 10 with the parkways and expressway and Jerico Turnpike, Old 11 Country Road, Northern Boulevard, Hemsted Turnpike, Sunrise 12 Highway and Merick Road tells us these people will be in 13 (>j 14 cars going nowhere. We have been on these roads after a holiday 15 weekend inching forward and hardly moving. It won't work. 16
! Don't license Shoreham.
g 17 Thank you very much. 18 0 (Applause . ) j 19 j (Wherupon, at 4:10 p.m., the limited appearances j 20 g session recessed, to reconvene at 6:00 p.m., the same day.) 21 h. 22 23 24 25
17,176-A Sim 1-1 j UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2 3 ATOMIC SAFETY'AND LICENSING BOARD , 4
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5
---------------X 6
In the Matter of: : Do'cket No. 50-322-OL-5 7 (EP Exercisc) 8 (ASLBP No. 86-533-Ol-OL) g (Shoreham Nuclear Power : Station, Unit 1) : 10 ______________ x 11 Executive Building Board Room 12 5th Floor No. 1 West Street 13 Mineola, New York 14 Friday, September 26, 1986 15 The Limited Appearance Session reconvened at i 16 6:05 p.m., pursuant to notice. } !
! 17 BEFORE:
2
- 18 MORTON B. MARGULIES, Chairman E The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board j 19 Nuclear Regulatory Commission .g . Washington, D.C. 20555 i* 20 i
JERRY R. KLINE, Member 3 21 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board l Nuclear Regulatory Commission E 22 Washington, D.C. 20555 23 FREDERICK J. SHON, Member The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board ! 24 Nuclear-Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 I 8' 25 A _ ~ _ , - . - - - - . -.m , ,- ,
17,176-B Sim 1-2 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT: PAGE e 2 HEATHER STANLEY 17,177
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3 VINCENT GARBETWLLE 17,181 4 GAIN YOUNGLESON -17,185 5 RICHARD DREWRY 17,188 DAVID FISHER 17,192 6 PERRY COWEN 17,193 BURT.H. WALLACE 17,196 JAMES NUGENT 17,199 BARBARA NEWMAN 17,200 RITA JOHNSTON 17,208 MIKE JARADO 17,210 12
! SCOTT DENOWICK 17,214 13 MEREDITH BECKER 17,218 DR. RALPH KNOPF '17,220 15 JOSEPH MULOVIE 17,225 i 16
! NETTY BEASLAND 17,228 g 17 l
I GITANO CRUCHIANA 17,233 1 g 18 D VICTORIA STUFERLAZA 17,237
; 2 19 j ROBERT MACHETTA 17,243 g HANNA COMMONOFF 17,245 21 CATHERINE SINNON 17,249 l 22 i RAYMOND LEEDS 17,255 23 LEIGH JOHNSON 17,257 , 24 BERNADETTE O'BRIEN 17,260 25 a
i 17,176-C 1 1 i i $,SueW I LIMITED APPEARANCE-STATEMENT PAGE ! i 2 DENNIS TRAGGER 17,263 ' i , l 3 LINDA TRAGGER 17,266 i 4 THORNTON WILLETTE 17,274 l 5 NICOLE CLOREY 17,277 2 6 MILLI RAPP- 17,279 e ? y i 8 1
! 10 i
11 i ! i i I i 1 12 l 1 j 13 4 . j 1.t ! s i 1 15 h.i l 16 I I 5 I 17 3 I i 18
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I 20 ' f 21 1 i i 22 I , j 23 21 i oderat Reporters, Inc. , 25 i =_. . . . . . _ _ . . . _ . . _ _ , _ . . _ _ _ . _ , . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . , _ , _-.._. _-,.. . ~ . _ _ _ _ _ , _ - . . _ _ . . _ _ . _ . . . - _ . _ _ . . . , _ _ _ _ , _ ,
17,176 Sim 8 1 E'V E N I N G' SESSION a 2 (6:00 p.m. ) O 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Good evening, ladies and 4 gentlemen. 5 The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 on June 6th, 1986 instituted'this. proceeding to consider 7 evidence on the Federal Emergency Management Agency's 8 exercise of the Long Island Lighting Company's emergency 9 plan for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station as to whether 10 it shows-fundamental flaws in the LILCO emergency plan. 11 The exercise"was cond6cted on February 13th, 1986. . 12 The Board assigned to hear this matter is 13 composed of Judge Jerry R. Kline, sitting on my right, ( 14 Judge Frederick J.'Shon, sitting on my left, and I am 15 Judge Morton B. Margulies, Chairman. 16 Parties to the proceeding are the Long Island
$ 17 Lighting Company, the applicant, the Nuclear Regulatory e
E 18 . Commission staff and the intervenors who oppose the 5 j 19 application, the State of New York, the County of Suffolk i
! 20 liew York and the Town of Southampton, New York, a-d The issues to be litigated have not as yet 21 22 been ruled upon. The matter is currently under considera-23 tion.
24 We are conducting a limited appearance session 25 here pursuant to Section 2.715 (a) of the Part 10 of the
17,177
.Sim 8-8 Code of Federal Regulations. It perhaps persons- not a party 1
a a 2 to make a limited appearance by making an oral or written 3 statement of their position. 4 The statements made by person not a party 5 to the proceeding are not evidence. The appearances'can 6 alert the Board and the parties to areas in which evidence 7 may need to be adduced. 8 It is customary to limit oral presentations 9 to five minutes each. Written statements may be submitted to and they will become part of the record. They are limited. 11 as to length. 12 We will now commence with our first speaker. 13 Heather Stanley. S I s/' j4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OE 16 HEATHER STANLEY j 37 MS. STANLEY: Good evening, gentlemen. 2
; 18 My name is Heather Stanley. I live in Nassau County, and I have lived here since 1952. . I was born: .in ) _39 a
l England. I travel back and forth from England and I study 20 a d 21 in England frequently. i g I am with the Institute of Complementary 23 Medicine in London. I have been studying there a lot. I am a health educator, and I have been health 24 25 education in the public school system for more than 20 years,
17,178 Sim 8-9 1 I had a very uncomfortable feeling this afternoc n
,f 2 as I was arriving back at the car when I thought about the 3
.k 3 young man that was talking about Vietnam.
4 I had a vision, this is just before my coming 5 back her, I had a vision of the National Guard being called ) s out and with everybody panicking in the evacuation. I~saw i 7 them opening fire and just. mowing people-down. 8 I just wanted to share that with you. 9 Recently I received a copy of a book from j
! 10 England called Radiation - What It Is, How It Affects Us 4
13 and What We Can Do About It. It is by a very euridite i 12 man by the name of John Davidson. He holds a degree in l 13 biological sciences from the University of Cambridge in 14 England. He has been long concerned over environmental-i 15 issues. 16 This is a thoughtful and. fascinating-look i { j 37 at the situation. In this book he suggests that if therc
, 2
; 18 were included in our food labeling laws a-daily report known l 5 i g 39 as The Danger Unit Report that we could easily see how s' a l 20 increased radiation is threatening.our vitality and health, i 3 d
21 We could then understand why' cancer and heart i 22 disea'se have reached epidemic proportions and, indeed, 23 even find why AIDS is rapidly becoming a worldwide killer. l 24 After the Chernobyl accident the NRPB which is
- lll> ,, the National Radiological Protection Board in Europe was s
i
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17,179 Sim 8-10 1 freely handing out information about this terrible accident 3 2 to the press. All of the sudden they were silenced by 3 the government. I have a feeling that there has been a 4 lot of silencing done here. 5 We know that certain people can handle radiation 6 better than others. We even know how to strengthen our 7 immune systems in the food and health situation. We know 8 that we can protect ourselves biochemically with foods 9 providing optimum nutrition. 10 We can study the information out of Japan ji regarding their experience after Nagasaki. But truely I 12 that is a laugh because where are we going to get the food 13 and where are we going to get the people to stop putting
! O 34 chemicals in our food apart from radiation? They are ,
15 even irradiating our food today. So that the food that 16 we would be turning to to help us in our fight against a j 37 radiation would be non-existent. We couldn't get it. 2 2 18 What about the. unborn? What about the young n i C j gg. and their immature' immune systems? What about the dangerous a l a 20 chemicals in our food for financial reasons just put there 1' . s by the companies. 21
;- )
22 What we can contribute to our global conscience 23 is up to each individaul. We are all involved. In such 24 an issue as this would you want to look back and mourn for 25 what we will have lost? I -l
17,180 Sim 8-11 1 It is not too late to say no, to refuse to 2 bow to financial interests. Some.will lose, it is true,
-/e~}
V 3 if we do say no, but in comparison to what we will lose if 4 we say' yes at this time, we will have our : planet for future. 5 generations. 6 We have to go deeper into our very hearts and 7 souls to ask ourselves what we personally are contributing 8 to this destructive force which has taken up residence g in our world. We have created it from within ourselves and 10 out of our own devices. 11 Can we as individuals ever influence government 12 and business and politics which have created these 13 unsafe nuclear installations. However safe nuclear plants-14 may be, the writer wonders if it-is possible with so'many 15 plants around the world to preserve a level of safety. 16 Accidents like Three Mile Island and Chernobyl s
.h 17 will always happen. Accidents-are in the nature of the 2 ; pg world. It is a great built in part of our cosmic dance.
C j 19- It would seem that we should do everything a 20 in our power to avoid having another hazard to our lives. d - In. conclusion I would urge you to read this 21 1
- hot-off-the press book that I have just'gotten from 22 23 England. It contains much valuable information. And I 24 ask you gentlemen to look at this very seriously before 25 y u license this terribly dangerous thing.
I
17,181 Sim 8-12 1 Thank you. 2 ( Applause'. ) 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: For those who just came in, 4 we do have a sign-up book at the table to my left. If you 5 wish to speak, please sign up so that we can call you l 6 in order. 7 Dr. Vincent Garbetelle. 8 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT g OF 10 VINCENT GARBETELLE gj DR. GARBETELLLE: Good evening.
' I am Vincent Garbetelle.
12 I am a practicing 13 physician. I practice internal medicine and general ( g ,4 practice in the medical community. 15 I just have three brief points to make. 16 The first point I would like to make is in j 37 reference to the evacuation plan, and I have been here for 8 i
; 33
~
all three sessions seeing a lot of people speaking about i 5 j 19 it. a l a 20 One major point that I feel that should be d emphasized is in any evacuation plan which have directions, g 4 9 , t 22 all f ur directions should be covered. Any Boy Scout 23 w uld know that you have more than one option available, g and.here is an evacuation plan which basically is only 25 g ing westward, which is wholly inadequate.. Even.i_f you.had i ! I
17,182 _Sim 8-13 1' everything working perfectly , you are all' going in the same e 2- direction. So that dosn't seem very logical to me. O' 3 The second point I would like to make is in 4 reference to the fact that you are a federal agency, and as l 5' .such I assume that you all took'some kind of oath or l 6 allegience to the consitutition of the United States, and-7 if you read the preamble to the Constitution it is clearly a stated in the preamble to promote the general welfare. 9 I think you have heard today and throughout the 10 last few months and years that in fact the general public it feels that their welfare and their safety is at risk, and 12 I think you representing a federal agency should bear that 13 in mind, that you are going to look out and promote the 14 general welfare. 15 I think that that alone should make you vote 16 against licensing such a plant where the general public h 17 feels their welfare is at risk and you are upholding the
$ 18 Constitution of the United States.
j 19 The third thing I would like to bring up is i 20 a story. As a medical doctor I came across a problem about d two weeks ago. A young woman got herself seriously injured 21 i 22 r could have gotten herself very serious'ly injured. She 23 fell about 20 feet and lost consciousness-and he was in the 24 hospital. She was only.16 and her parents weren't around i 25- and he was frightened. She was in the emergency room. I
17,183
-Sim 8-14 1 was not there at the time. I was on my way.
2 One of the doctors on staff at the hospital (ph
\'# ordered a certain kind of an X-ray which involves giving 3
4 intravenous contrast, and I am sure you know what I am 5 _ talking about. 6 Now being in the legal climate that we are in y now everything has to be one with consent when there is 8 any kind'of significant risk involved. So they had this )_ g consent form ready and waiting, and it was quite frightening . i jo- Of course she was only 16 so should could not sign it. 33 So eventually her parents came and then the 12 consent form was shoved under their noses and the physician 13 who wrote for this order of course only had the interest i
,j/ 34 of the patient at heart.
15 S I just want you to remember that. He only 16 had the interest of that 16-year-old girl at heart when j g he ordered this test. 1
$ 18 In the several hours that passed in trying to.
I E gg get ahold of the parents to sign che consent form, they a i g 20 finally did see it and written in that consent form is
$ g a.nunter, a frightening number, that there is approximately i
- a 1 and 75,000 chance that you can take this test and die 22 from it, g
t i 24 Now that is pretty scary. You come in and you l 25 have just had a frightening experience and then your 4 i
-e e ,
17,184 Sim 8-15 1 parents.come and look'at this-form here you are beisg. f, 2 scared to death.that if you take this test, which is V 3 trying to be done for you to help you, that you actually 4 can die from it. There is a risk of dying. So they 5 didnt know what to do. 6 So finally by the time I got there they asked 7 me, they said, Doctor, what would you do? Here is this 8 form and it says that if we give this dye to our little 9 girl she might die from it and is this a worthwhile test 10 and is this a worthwhile risk to take? 11 So I thought about it and I told them in my 12 opinion no because the information we were. going to get 13 from it at the time was not going to be worth the risk. _ 34 So I make this analogy for what you are facing 15 here in licensing a nuclear plant. You are~asking the n3 public, .the general public to 'ake t a risk, and I think' as - 4 s h 17 those parsents two weeks refused to take a risk risking the
; ni life of their daughter for a test, I think you should also
. C l j H) heed the feelings of the people in this room,.of'the ' 20 PeoP l e in this county, in Suffolk County who feel that you t 8 21 are putting them at undue risk. 22 And if you are looking out for their interests, , 23 there is no reason to'take such a risk, just as these. I 24 parents refused to take a risk for their daughter even 25 though the risk was low. I
, . _ , _ ._. . ._e... . . _ _ . _ . . _ ,, .__ . . . .
17,185 Sim 8-16 1 I think when it comes to a' plant licensing
- a. 2 where you are telling us that the risk is low, we don't want 3 to take that risk ~and we hope that you heed our-request.
4 Thank you. 5 (Applause.) 6 JUDGE MARGULIES:- Gail Youngleson. 7 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8 OF g GAIL YOUNGLESON 10 MS. YOUNGLESON: Good evening, gentlemen.
-11 My name is Gail Youngleson. I am a member 12 of the.Long Island Chapter of Earth First.
13 I have come here tonight to give voice for 14 those populations that cannot be evacuated and that so 15 far have not been given any voice in these hearings. 16 It might take a little shifting of gears, but s h 17 it probably would not surprise you very much if I.tell you-e
$ 18 in the area surrounding the Shoreham Nuclear Plant that 5
j 19 there are populations muskrat and. racoon and pitch pine. i
; 20
.But do you also know that within the 10-mile s
- i. radius of the plant are flying squirrels and red fox? Have 21 i
E any f us thought about the flying squirrels there? 22
~
23 Do you know how many species of waterfowl that 24 feed on the land directly adjacent t.o the plant? In other 25 w rds, have we really given any consideration to all the
17,186 Sim 8-17 ,_ species that are involved in the' decision that you are
- making? l i +s 2 j We haven't really found a way~.to admit-the 3
non-human species into this discussion. However, a lot 1 4 4 of the anti-Shoreham discussion has centered around how l 5 I much many of us love our children.and what we envision for
- 6 4
their futdre. 7 i Well, upland a bit from the salt marsh that.
~
surrounds Shoreham.is a breeding ground for warblers. .If ' the intrinsic worth of birds does not occur to you, then ? I ask you to look at your children's future,without - 3 warblers or without the muskrat or without blueberry. j' 12
, The Iroquis Indians attempted to make important-
, 13 4 decisions with the next seven generations in mind when 14 4 they made those decisions. 15 The issue of evacuation isn't a story of I ! what will happen in a couple of hours on one nightmarish
- 17 g.
day. It is the story of the next seven generations. It i j is the story of the next one hundred years. j d 19 l l It is all too easy to think of our human culture j m g as distinct and separate from the world of nature. ' However,
, 21
' even in this room with its windows shut and the air 22 conditioning on the oxygen that.we are breathing is still 23 l
l a gift from hemlock and from sweet fern and from red oak.
- 24 We are very, very much dependent on those 25 i
? 1 1 _ _ , . _ . _ ,4_~..,-..,,,,,.,_.m_... _ . . . , , _ _ , _ , ,,,_..,_,..m,_. .,. - , , ,,,_. ., . y-__ .....,r.,, .
' .17,187 Sim 8 1 communities. l l
~
e 2 There is still time to learn from~the raindeer O 3 of. Lapland that are dying from the contamination of 4 Chernobyl. There is still time for us to learn from the 4 5 still-born calves and the three-foot long mutated dandelions 6 that surround the area of Three Mile Island. 7 The fate of our entire planet is being.made J 8 'in these decisions and that is invisible from our view. We g are still only. talking about the shuffling back and forth 1 10 of the human population, and shuffling off to where I i gj want to know, i 12 We owe it to our children and we owe it to
' 13 the children of the white tailed deer not to open the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant.
]( 34 is Thank you. 1 1 16 (Applause.) JUDGE MARGULIES: Richard Drewry. h 17 , 2 g 18 j 19 a E j 20 J l 21
+
1
- ^
22 j 23 i 24 25
. ~ __ .,
. _ . _ _ . _ _ . _ . = . _ _ _ . _ . _ _ ___
1 17,188 8 '* LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT g
) OF 2
3
"^
MR. DREWEY: Greetings, Representatives of the 4 NRC and concerned citizens. 5 6 y name is Mchad Newry, ad I am de hoject f Coordinator for the Stoney Brook Chapter of the New York 7 Public Interest Research Group,.NIPERG. 8 As you may know, NIPERG is New York State's 10 largest private not-for-profit research and advocacy orani-31 zation. More than 100 professional staff work with over 12 150,000 memebers in 25 offices located from western.New York-13 to eastern Long Island.
)
14 Together we conduct independent, non-biased 15 research and help shape public policy. Environmental preser-16 vation, consumer protection, energy, political reform and 37 social justice are NIPERG's principal areas of concern. 18 I w uld like to begin by discussing the legalities 39 of the February 13th evacuation drill since that seems to i 20 be the focus of much of the' debate. 21 The NRC reads as follows, and I quote. "The 22 drill shall include participation by State and local govern-23 ments in the path of the radioactive plume." i'
~
24 I am n t a lawyer, but I can think logically, d) 3 which is all that is required here. The regulation states i
17,189 1 that Shoreham may open if and only if State and local () 2 governments participate in the evacuation drill. Neither 3 State nor local governments participated. It follows then l 4 that Shoreham must not open. 5 LILCO_would like'to have Shoreham open whether 6 or not public officials participated in the evacuation-drill. 4 7 LILCO is inviting another Thrill' Mile Island. 8 But'enough of technicalities. LILCO has been 9 trying to lose the real issue in legalities and' volumes of to briefs for quite some time now. The matter at hand is one 11 of public safety and not legal jargon. 12 Can we or can we not evacuate Long Island if f 13 a Chernobyl type disaster were to occur at Shoreham Nucl' ear 14 Power Plant? It does not require a lawyer. It does not 15 require a statistician and it does not even require a 16 scientist or technical expert, and it most certainly does 17 not require a bureaucrat to tell us whether Long Island 18 can or cannot be evacuated. i 19 All that is required is someone who has tried to 20 drive into Manhattan through rush hour traffic. That the i 21 NRC should even ask whether the evacuation is possible proves 4 22 that sometimes expertise can lead one to overlook reality. 23 In the morass of legal documents and statistical 24 reports, those who have displayed concern for the public
- 25 have been systematically censored. Even the Frank Petrone.
l l i
1 8-20 17,190 l
- the Regional-Director of the Federal Emergency Management I
/)
( 2 Agency,.the body vested with overseeing such drills, insisted 3 that the drill was so unrealistic.that we cannot give 4 reasonable assurance'that the public's health and safety 5 can be protected. 6 For this Mr. Petrone was forced to resign. l 7 Virtually all of our elected representatives 8 strongly oppose Shoreham, yet they are ignored. I g But more importantly, the pleas and concerns 10 of the citizens of Long Island have fallen upon deaf ears. 11 .In a democratic society the decision-making 12 authority should.be in the hands of the people, and
/; 13 constitutionally decisons regarding matters of public safety 14 are local ones and not federal.
15 Clearly the public safety is not the central 16 concern of the NRC. 17 In the Chernobyl disaster Soviets were evacuated 18 in an 18.6 mile radius. Our government was telling 19 Americans evacuate from Kiev, some 80 miles away. At 20 Shoreham plans have been made only for evacuation in 10-mile 1 21 radius. 1 - f n Are Americsans somehow more susceptible to 1 23 radiation when we are beyong our own borders, or does our 24 government just care about us less when we are at home? M For three days now you gentlemen have been
.m, - , , - - - - - _ _ - _ , . - _ - - . , . _ - _ _ . , _ _ _ _ . . . _ . . . - _ _ . _ . -
8-21 17,.191 1
' .- f i listening.to the' statements of citizens concerned about ,
~'Y 2 their own safety and the safety of those they love.
J 3 Now I ask for a statement from you. ~ Tell me i 4 who is trying to force Long Islanders to buy expensive 5 power that we do not want'and do not need? 6 Why are we being told that an impossible 7 evaucation can be accomplished? g Who is behind this all-out push to commission
- 9 Shoreham Nuclear. Power Plant over our dead bodies?
10 In a letter dated May of 1986 Governor Cuom'o it wrote to the NRC stating, and I quote, "Your insistence to J 12 proceed with this licensing proceeding, if you so desire, r' 13 can only raise.new and serious questions about the independence
' %/
14 of the Commission and its dedication to the protection 15 of the public health and safety of the residents in the 16 vicinity of the proposed Shoreham facility." 17 I believe it is time to raise those questions, 18 for is Shoreham goes on line, democracy will have lost a 19 great battle. l 20 Thank you. t i 21 (Applause . ) 22 I would like to submit a written copy of my i a statement for the record and I have copies for any media
.end Sim l Sue fois 24 that may be here.
J 3 4 i i _ _ , _ _ , _ _ _ , . , , , . _ . ...m,__.~ , _ . . _ . . . _ - . , _ ___ - . _ , _ _ - . . _ - , - , _ , .-
.r--.,._ _
~ - , _ , . . . , . , . , _ ,
17,192-EVENING I JUDGE MARGULIES: David Fisher. (AS)-1-SueW 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 .op 4 DAVID FISHER S MR. FISHER: Good evening, gentlemen. My.name 6 is David Fisher. I'm an electronics engineer. I've been a 7 resident of Nassau County for 43 years. I would like to 8 thank you for the opportunity to be heard. And, actually I 9 reflect the opinion of quite a few of my acquaintenances who 10 are not perhaps as vocal as some of the politicians notice. Il ! However, I will try to limit my comments to what 12 I consider the relevant items. I urge that certification be ( 13 given to LILCO to operate the Shoreham plant at full power. 14 My reasons follow: A number of nuclear scientists 15 from Brookhaven National Laboratory, who live near Shoreham, 16 have recommended that the plant be operated at full power. The 17 report is dated February 1986. 18 Two. Long Island currently has a shortage of I9 reserve power. Demand is growing at the rate of two to three 20 percent per year, and a minimum of several years would be 21 needed to construct facilities to import power from Upstate 22 if this power were to be made available. 23 Three. There are major differences between the [ 24 t_a.ou.i amorem, inc. reactor and the safety features of the Shoreham plant and those 25 of Chernobyl. And parallels between these two are not valid.
17,193 A-#9-2-SueW l Four. Although there are some 90 nuclear plants 2 operating in the United States, and several hundred worldwide -- 3 I use the free world -- there have been no serious accidents 4 after up to 25 years of service. LILCO has supported an 5 emergency evacuation plan, and from 1968 or thereabouts, until 6 1982 Suffolk County tacitly has supported the new plant at 1. 7 Shoreham, including emergency planning. Since that date, 8 1982, the County has done an about-face and has not even 9 . participated in an emergency drill to see if emergency pro-10 cedures are feasible. Il Now, this delay has also contributed to the increased 12 : cost of the plant, of course. Thank you for your time, and I xi ! (_ 13 ! should be pleased to answer any questions if you have any. 14 JUDGE MARGULIES: Thank you. We have no questions. 15 Harry D. Cone. Is Mr. Cone in the hearing room? 16 ' LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 17 OF 18 PERRY COWEN 19 i MR. COWEN: Thank you. My name is Perry Cowen. l 20 I live in North Massapequa. I am a New York State certified 21 science teacher. 22 l i I would like to begin by, for the record, lodging 23; a protest involving these proceedings. At a time when LILCO 24 is evaluating its plant, every other day it seems, it seems A 8 Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 really inadequate to have the hearings in the middle of all
17,194
% #9-3-SueW 1 these changes going on. Many of the changes for individuals
I haven't had time to 2 such as myself are incomprehensible.
3 go through them. 4 I'm sure the general public feels similarly. So, 5 I would like that on the record. 6 If possible, I would like additional hearings to 7 be held once, or if, LILCO ever gets its plan straightened 8 out to its own satisfaction, if not the publics. 9 As I said, I'm a science teacher, a teacher of 10 science. As such, I would like to say that I am greatly 11 l upset with the nuclear industry, the so-called scientists that 12 do all of this evaluating of the plant, of the technical data, 77 ' ( 13 gentlemen such as yourselves that present themselves as 14 objective judges in the scientific tradition. i 15 l My concern is that the technological and scientific 16 community are mixing science with civics. The last I looked, 17 j we do not live in a technocracy. We live in a democracy. It 18 seems like the technocrats, if you would call them that, seem 19 ' to feel that somehow they are in charge of all the decision-20 making process involving civics. They have sloshed over into 21 the civic arena where they do not belong. The decision-making 22 process does not belong in their hands. 23 This is a democracy. The ultimate jurors, if you l l 24 will, are the public. As regards nuclear plants, I would l Weal Rmorters, Inc. 25 like to say that it is clear that your jobs and the job of l l l
17,195 I
,j,j9-4-SueW the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the scientists that 2 work with them are to make sure that if we are going to have 3 a nuclear power plant that it meets certain standards, safety, 4 and that it be done in an orderly process.
5 But what I think is lost here'is that the people 6 who this impacts, namely the public, should be the ultimate 7 jurors in the decision-making process as to whether they want 8 one to begin with. It seems like your job, gentlemen, should 9 be that if the public wants a nuclear plant it's your job to
~
10 ensure that they get a safe one, one with a workable evacuation II a plan, et cetera, et cetera. 12 But, I fail to see where there is anything in your () 13 mandate which says you can impose a nuclear power plant in 14 a community that does not want one. And that is the case 15 with Long Island.
- 16 So, I am very concerned here because I'm a fairly 17 patriotic kind of fellow. And, I get very upset when I see 18 what I see, in my interpretation, as assault upon the 19 ' democratic process. In my view, this is very.Un-American.
- 20 This goes against the nature.of what this country is all about.
21 Now, that might sound, you know, like a trite kind 22 of thing to say. But, I believe that strongly. To me, this 23 weakens our democracy, what this nation stands for. 24 And,
#Fwcal Reporters,1%. And, the people have spoken on Long Island.
25 I would like for all of you to think strongly about whether
17,196
, #9-5-SueW you have lost your perspective in.this thing. You can become
2 so specific in what you will or will not consider from.the 3 public that you run the danger of excluding so much, and then 4 you have such a narrow vision of.what is acceptable or what 5 is important or not important, that you lose the whole picture.
6 You end up in the wrong ball field suddenly, and you never know 7 it because you have excluded other relevant things. 8 I would like you gentlemen really to consider that, 9 because that is something that the citizens of Long Island, 10 in addition to the threat to their health and safety and the 11 threat to their economics, are greatly angered about. This is 12 the threat to their patriotic sense. They feel threatened, ( 13 they feel angered. There is injustice going on here on the 14 y level of civics, on the level of government, of what America i 15 stands for. And, that is another big thing they are very angry 16 ; about. I l'7 And, I would appreciate your attention to that 18 matter. Thank you. 19 (Applause.) I j 20 JUDGE MARGULIES: Burt H. Wallace. 21 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 22 OF i 23 BURT H. WALLACE i 24 MR. WALLACE: My name is Burt Wallace. I live in l awe nnaim. ine. 25 Uniondale. I've been living in Uniondale for over 30 years. I l l l
17,197
.,#9-6-SueW 1 I'm going to suggest to you that in everybody's
/
2 interest in accord with perhaps 95 percent of the Long Island 3 people -- and I ought to know, I belong to many organizations, 4 and in line with sanity, you for once buck the very powerful 5 ' momentum that our very powerful establishment, with your help I 6 and blessing, have set in motion, and tha t you put a hold now 7 to this monster running its course. 8 One of the difficulties I believe that is besetting 9 us is our limited ability to foresee exactly what is in store 10 'for us. We do know that accidents are going to happen during 11 a hypothetical 30 year life time of a nuclear power plant. 12 They always happen. They happen at every plant. We know that statistically -- and I'm a professional l() 13 j 14 engineer; I think I can pass this judgment. Statistically, a I 15 major accident may very well happen in that period. And, all' l i 16 we have is only a very abstract notion and vision of such an ) 17 event. 18 The scenario in many people's minds seems that at i ! 19 that moment of catastrophe, the people effected would very l l 20 calmly walk to their cars which, of course, stand near by, I 1 i 21 start their engines up which, of course, has been destroyed i e l 22 with the electronics, drive to their nearby homes, pick up I 23 their family and then make their way towards the Coliseum in 24 Uniondale on one of perhaps four major roads with very light l Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 traffic, of course, where othe people previously trained for i
17,198 f_19-7-SueW l this purpose would be available to help them with showers, V 2 handy wipes, et cetera. This scenario, which is propogated 3 very widely, is a vicious, totally misleading deception, as 4 is the proposed alternative, to use the LILCO facilities instead . 5 And, so admittedly this process of gathering the 6 victims there may take up to 12 hours. Think of Chernobyl for 7 the first 12 hours. 8 I believe that these offerings are totally criminal, 9 totally criminal, and must not be allowed to help you or 10 anybody to serve as a rationalization to give a go-ahead I 11 ! signal for Shoreham. I i 12 The German philosopher, Frederick Neitsze, mostly (_,/ 13 misunderstood until you read him yourself, at one point said 14 l that insanity is rather rare a=0ng individuals but for groups I 15 : of people it is the rule rather than the exception. I 16 This explains perhaps why LILCO's corporate manage-l 17 l ment, quite a few years ago now, seeing that big bucks could 18 be made jumped collectively into this nuclear power fray 1 19 without ever bothering to consider the geographic situation at 20 all. Financially, too, it is an even larger Trojan horse. 21 If this Shoreham thing, which at this point stands 22 at a debt of five billion dollars, is going to be paid for 23, a bond issue at the present higher -- or future probably fS 24 i higher -- interest rates, it could amount to a mortgage of ( ) Liederal Reporters, Inc. 25 each of LILCO's 900,000 customers of perhaps 15 to 20 billion
17,199 i'-8-SueW l dollars over 30 years. This would impose a debt to everyone 2 of these customers of about 16 to 17, perhaps 18, thousand 3 dollars over these 30 years. This would come to over five 4 hundred dollars a year, which is just about the average cost 5 of the average resident's electricity. 6 This is without the cost of generating those kilowatt 7 hours in Shoreham. I see here not 12.6 cents per kilowatt 8 hour, not 25.2, but about 40 cents per kilowatt hour. 9 I beg you, do not emulate Neitsze's proposition. 10 (Applause.) II JUDGE MARGULIES: James Nugent. 12 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s / ) i (' 13 ! OF i I4 ! JAMES NUGENT 15 ' MR. NUGENT: Good evening. My name is James i 16 ' Nugent. I represent the Hempstead Coordinating Council Civic 17 Association. It's an organization that encompasses an area 18 of 40,000 people. 19 I don't want to be redundant. I am in agreement 20 with the people that are in opposition to the opening of 21 Shoreham under nuclear full power. The things that the people 22 brough_ out were very interesting. I think what the Board ought to consider is, look 23l 24 at some irc. of the construction records for the past on Long Island
- , -Federal Reporters, 25 and consider how safe Shoreham vill be to house nuclear energy.
17,200
,#9-9-SueW j Look at Nassau County Medical Center where the bricks are O .
U 2 pouring out the side, and then consider all of the other variables and chances of accidents. And, then we have to 3 look towards an evacuation plan on Long Island, where the 4 pe ple can't move not only during rush hour but in midday
~
5 in this area. 6 I think it ought to be denied. I hope it will 7 be denied. And that's all I have to say here this evening. 8 Thank you. 9 (Applause.) 10 ! yy JUDGE MARGULIES: Barbara Newman. i LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 12
; 13 jg BARBARA NEWMAN
. EWMAN: Good evening. My name is Badara 15 Newman. I reside in Huntington, Long Island, where I have 16
- lived with my husband and daughter for the past eight years.
J I am Co-Director of the Long Island Ratepayers' 18 Association, an affiliate organization of the Coalition for 39 Safe Living, a large coalition of groups concerned with the 20 quality of life on Lc g Island. I am a health professional 21 and, as I said before, the mother of a 15-year old daughter. 22 23 I w uld like to thank you for the opportunity to 24 speak this evening, especially since as citizens we were ' eFederal Reporters,Inc. + 25 denied the opportunity for public hearings immediately following 4 }
17,201
,#9-10-SueW 1 the evacuation exercise. I am particularly concerned that we 1
3 2 were denied this opportunity to address the Board after the i 3 exercise, since federal regulations require that the public 4 comment on evacuation drills after they are held. 5 I would also like to express my concern over a 1 6 related matter. That is the Board's decision not.to permit t 7 34 letters from school principals and superintendents who 8 withdrew their participation in LILCO's. plan to be . entered 9 into the record or acknowledged in legal proceedings regarding i 10 licensing. 4
- 11 Since these 34 letters -- there were 32 from 12 schools and two from churches, as you know -- represent'a i
() 13 clear majority of the 50 public schools designated as congre-i 14 gate care centers by.LILCO, this decision of denial by the 15 Board is a particularly egregious one. In fact, I believe it i j 16 is a violation of due process. l'7 Your decisions are an integral part of these j 18 licensing proceedings. This basic denial of our constitutional 19 right provides the framework for a future Congressional in-i 20 vestigation into how the NRC functions, particularly in regard i 21 to Shoreham. We hope that in the future you will scrupulously f . 22 observe regulations regarding licensing. 23 In view of the fact that we live in a democratic I l 24 society, not a totalitarian one, we expect that you will ! 7.dce neponen, Inc.
- 25 respect the constitutional rights of the public you have sworn i,
i
i 17.202
,49-ll-SueW 1 to serve.
i \ V 2 Some specific points I would like to raise are 3 concerns -- have concern to the inadequacy of medical 4 facilities to care for severely contaminated individuals or 5 those persons with contaminated wounds. Since I'm in the health 6 profession, I feel that this is an area of expertise that I can 7 comment on. I was shocked to read, first of all, that the 8 LILCO plan has a list of guidelines for maximum acceptable 9 levels of contamination, with a breakdown for adults and 10 children for doses for thyroid, skin and hair contamination. II As responsible officials in charge of protecting 12 our public health and safety, I would suggest to you that ( 13 there is no acceptable safe level of contamination. Radiation 14 is cumulative. Since each person's prior level of exposure 15 ljis totally unknown, even to themselves, any additional 16 exposure-to radiation, particularly of the type released in a 17 l major nuclear accident, may doom certain individuals to 18 increased risk of cancer and even death. 19 As we heard earlier today in the testimony regard-20 ing the mortality rate, some six to seven percent increase in 21 mortality rates in the Three Mile Island population. We have
^
22 very close friends there. We know the whole situation there 23 very, very well. I 24
# Federal Reporters, Inc. No governmental agency has the authority to license 25 a dangerous nuclear power plant whose basic philosophy includes
17,203 l the premise, acceptable levels of contamination.. This is a 1
- [.%#9-12-SueWl s_) 2 basic violation of our life to live in a safe and peaceful 3 existence in our society.
f 4 Certainly, no utility should be given the right to 5 decide that a population can and will be exposed to life-6 threatening radiation, and that this is acceptable. It is I 7 not acceptable. 8 The second point I would like to clarify is that i 9 LILCo's list of back-up hospitals includes only three hospitals i
! 10 on Long Island. Most, if not all, of the hospitals are hundreds i
11 of miles away. The plan specifies that'if radiation. readings are in excess of the accepted level, persons should.go to a 12 l ( 13 hospital with nuclear medicine capability.
- 14 Do these back-up hospitals have doctors and nurses I
] 15 i trained to handle radiation victims? .Do medical personnel ) ! 16 know how to read special equipment for measuring radiation? 17 Do the hospitals even have this special equipment? a 18 One of the hospitals in the plan is in Jamestown, 19 New York. I know this hospital well. I used to live Jamestown. 20 It is 500 miles away in the southern tier near Lake Erie in the 21 snowbelt of New York State. Even under optimal weather i 22 conditions, it will take evacuees 10 hours to drive there. In i 23 the winter, it could take two days if there was a snowstorm.
- 24 What kind of evacuation plan is this?
j Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 Thirdly, in a letter dated August 20th,1986 from l
17,204 %fn13-SueW I the Nassau Chapter of- the Red Cross to LILCO, Walter U 2 Oberstabrink, Chairman of the Board, states as: "There is 3 no agreement between LILCO and the Red Cross to provide 4 emergency assistance during a radiological emergency." 5 Since the Red Cross plays-a crucial role in 6 LILCO's evacuation plan, I believe this constitutes a major 7 flaw in the plan. 8 Fourth -- 9 JUDGE MARGULIES: Would you repeat that last 10 sentence, please? Il MS. NEWMAN: The quote from the letter. 12 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: Who was the letter from? ( 13 MS. NEWMAN: The letter was from Walter Oberstabrink, 14 ; Chairman of the Nassau Chapter of the American Red Cross, to i 15 Elaine Robinson of LILCO, in which Mr. Oberstabrink states 16 in the letter, "There is no agreement between LILCO and the 17 Red Cross to provide emergency assistance during a radiological 18 emergency." 19 Since the Red Cross plays a crucial role in 20 LILCO's evacuation plan, I believe that this -- this is not 21 from the letter, but I am saying I believe that this lack of 22 agreement between LILCO and the Red Cross constitutes a major 23 flaw in the plan. 24
- Federal Reporters, Inc. There is a fourth item that I would like to address 25 and bring to the Board's attention. Not only did none of the
17,205 emergency broadcast stations that are in the LILCO plan parti-
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I 7 MQ-14-SueW O 2 cipate in the evacuation exercise, but two of the key radio 3 stations in the emergency communicat ions system have actually 4 withdrawn from the evacuation plan. 5 "Newsday" carried an article the other day'about-6 WALK radio station withdrawing. I would like to read into the 7 record a copy of the letter sent to the NRC, with a copy to 8 the Long Island Ratepayers' Association, dated December 12th, 9 1985, from WGSM/WCTO, in which they state: " Presently'WGSM 10 and WCTO are participants in Shoreham's evacuation plan. It II has come to my attention that this plan has been, and is, a 12 matter of litigation in the New York State court system as 13 well as the federal courts. Additionally, Suffolk County and f I4 the State of New York are refusing to participate-in the 15 Shoreham evacuation plan. Obviously, these events make the 16 plan moot at this point. WGSM and WCTO stand ready to assist i 17 the listening public if an emergency were to occur. We will, 18 however, only participate in LILCO's Shoreham evacuation plan 19 if an acceptable plan, formulated by appropriate agencies on 20 the federal, state and county levels is agreed upon. Until 21 that time, it is our understanding that the evacuation plan 22 and WGSM/WCTO's participation in it are inoperative. Cordially, 23 Richard J. Scolum, Vice-president and General Manager." ( 24 Finally, NRC regulations require that emergency bMederal Reporters, Inc.
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25 plans include provisions for identifying and implementing i
17,206 A9 l protective actions to prevent harmful radiation contamination ! (,s)-15-SueW 1 2 from entering the food chain. Under the regulations, an area 3 of 50-mile radius from the plant is known as the ingestion l 4 pathway EPZ. 5 Protection actions include making sure tha'c 6 fruits and vegetables, milk and other produce and farm pro-7 ducts are not contaminated. And if they are, removed from' 8 commerce. 9 The 50-mile ingestion pathway EPZ for the Shoreham 10 plant extends well into Nassau County and the State of 11 Connecticut. In light of Chernobyl, there is no basis to 12 believe that it is sufficient to protect only an area 50 miles ( 13 from the plant, since following Chernobyl contaminated food 14 stuffs and animals have been discovered many hundreds of miles 15 , from the plant. 16 Although LILCO has said that it intends to make 17 necessary recommendations to protect the food chain, during 18 the exercise no such actions were taken. I 19 In fact, there was only one pretend-announcement 20 saying that dairy animals located.within 10 miles of the j 21 Shoreham plant should be~placed on stored feed. Thus, during 22 the exercise, LILCO demonstrated its inability to provide any 23 protection from food chain contamination for anything except 24 dairy animals within the 10-mile zone. l It never bothered at j Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 all with the rest of the 50-mile ingestion pathway zone. i
. .. . ~ _ _ _ ._. _ _ . _ _ . . .
17,207
#9-16-SueW1 There are a lot of other things that I would like 2 to say, but I know that there are a lot of people here this 3 evening who want to speak. So, I will close by saying that as e
4 an individual and as a member of the groups that I represent, i 5 I would like to add my voice to all of the voices here on 6 Long Island, asking that you consider these facts and not 7 grant the license to LILCO. t 8 Thank you. $ 9 JUDGE MARGULIES: Ms. Newman,'do you have any 10 objection to giving us that letter? t II MS. NEWMAN:- This is my only copy. I would be 12 glad to make a copy and give it to you. l
- ( 13 JUDGE MARGULIES: And, what is the date of that -
! I4 letter? 15 MS. NEWMAN: December 12th, 1985. Thank you very l I l 16 much. 17 (Applause.) i 18 JUDGEhMARGULIES: Ms. Newman, I'm speaking about 19 the Red Cross letter. Is that the date of December 12th? i l 20 MS. NEWMAN: No. I thought you meant the WGSM/WCTO 2I letter.
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22 JUDGE MARGULIES: No. I am speaking of the Red 23 Cross letter.
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24 MS. NEWMAN: The Red Cross letter.is dated, I
- 3 Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 believe, August 20th, 1986. 1
17,208
+
# 9-17-Suebi JUDGE MARGULIES: That is the letter we are
~~ 2 interested in. 3 MS. NEWMAN: Yes. 4 JUDGE MARGULIES: The next speaker is Frank Y. 5 Orillio. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE MARGULIES: Fern Simon. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE MARGULIES: J. Miller. 10 (No response.) II JUDGE MARGULIES: We do have a sign-up sheet on I 12 1 the table to my left. If any of you wish to be heard, please 13 sign up so that we can call you in turn. 14 j I Erda Tourpee. i i 15 , (No response.) 16 JUDGE MARGULIES: Rita Johnston. 17 l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 18 OF 19 RITA JOHNSTON 20 MS. JOHNSTON: Good evening, gentlemen. My name 21 is Rita Johnston. I'm a mother, I'm an executive secretary, 22 and I just want to tell you that I've lived here in Nassau I've raised my family here. 23 f County for my whole life. I 24 My daughter now lives within a 10-mile radius of Meral Rmorters, inc. 1 25 Shoreham. She has three children. She is a homeowner. She is
17,209 9-18-SueW 1 home all the time. But, I know that if there were any sort 2 of accident there, I know that she would immediately -- in 3 spite of being a law-abiding citizen -- get in her car and go 4 get her kids no matter where they are. And, that area out 5 there is full of young families, just as Nassau County used 6 to be many years ago. 7 There are a lot of working mothers there who I'm 8 sure would do exactly as she would do, leave their jobs, 9 congest the roads to try to save their families and get them 10 l all together. And, to me, this is very -- I'm sure of this. II And, I would urge you -- there are many things in 12 l life that we have no choice about. But, to me, we have a /~'s , (_) 13 y cnolce in this matter. And, I would urge you to vote against il 14 h the cpening of Shoreham, ii 15 ] Thank you. 16 (Applause.) i end #9 17 ' 18 19 20 l l l 21 . l l 22 23l 4 24 Rederal Reporters. Inc. 25
$ $/V Wy 10-1-gjw 17,210 e 1 JUDGE MARGULIES: Mike Jarado? O 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 OF 4 MIKE JARADO 5 MR. JARADO: There is a recent poll by Newday 6 that says sixty-two and a half percent of the Long Islanders 7 would evacuate, even if they lived outside the evacuation 8 zone in the event of an accident at Shoreham. I am one 9 of them, and I am sure you have heard a lot of testimony 10 this week and will and some of it may be emotional testimony, 11 l i 12 ; Testimony should not be discounted. Shoreham (J 13 j is an issue on many levels, and emotion is one of them. 14 ] Any time you threaten the safety and health of an 15 individual, his family and home, you certainly have 16 emotions. 17 If I took a gun to your head right now you 18 l would certainly have some type of emotional response to l. 19 ' that action. That is hou we Long Islanders view LILCO 20 and its Shoreham plant. 21 It is a gun to our heads, and we have no way to 22 escape. We look to you as policemen. We are telling you 23 there is a dangerous company armed with a nuclear plant, 24 and 9ederal A Reporters, Inc.it is threatening our lives. 25 How you respond will have a profound effect
17,211 10-2-gjw a 1 n how we Americans view not only the Nuclear Regulatory 2 Commission, but also the Federal Government. 3 We are looking for protection, not collusion. a 4 safety, not the illusion of safety. 5 We travel these Long Island roads every day, and 6 the traffic situation is outragious now, and it is only 7 getting worse. Newday reports that we will soon be having B twelve hour traffic jams. 9 Paul Townsend's column in the Long Island business 10 newspaper states that there are now traffic jams in both 11 j i i directions of the Long Island Expressway during rush hour. 12 Lar.t year, WCBS radio reported a five mile traffic () 13 back-up one Sunday evening at Exit 67, which is the exit 14 that would be used by a lot of the Shoreham evacuees. It is 15 l the Williamsport Parkway, if you want to be specific about I 16 I it, and those east of the Shoreham plant. I i 17 l In addition, the area around the -Shoreham plant is J 18 one of the fastest growing ~ areas of residential development. 19 Brookhaven Town has on file plans for an additional six thousand , 20 seven.hundred and fifty-six residential units. Of this number, 21 four thousand six hundred and ninety-four will be inside the 22 ten mile evacuation zone. These aren't built yet, but they 23 are planned to be built. 24
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L,oderal Reporters, Inc. These are not individuals, but families who will add 25 in additional eight thousand cars minimum to LILCO's already gjw 17,212 1 full evacuation plan. 2 The recent announcement that LILCO plans to use its 3 own facilities and headquarters for evacuation center has 4 one thing going for it; it will enable us to get our hands 5 on the throats of LILCO management if we are forced to leave 6 our homes in the case of an accident at Shoreham. 7 (Applause.) l 8 If the NRC continues with this sham evacuation 9 plan, the ramifications are great. It will be a sham if 10 ,I any plan is approved that says you can evacuate. l 11 I Even though New York City and Suf folk County has 12 ' found that we residents have known all along: We cannot
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t 'a (j 13 evacuate Long Island, i 14 ' Those of us who live outside the ten mile zone i 15 ' are not going to stay put while those in the evacuation zone 16 flees to some imaginary safe -- supposedly safe site. What in fact will happen is that as traffic backs up and comes 17 l 18 i to a standstill, we would have been given in effect the 19 privilege of driving our own hearse. 20 If this body and the rest of the NRC continues to 21 try and ram this nuclear plant down the throats of the people 22 l, of Long Island, the nuclear industry may win a battle, but-23 lose the war. 24 I If you trample the right of local authorites to A 8ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 protect us residents, you will lose the respoect of Long
10-4-gjw 17,213 t 1 Islanders for the Federal Government. 2 in addition, you will send a signal to other states 3 and localities that as soon as you give a nuclear plant a 4 permit to build, you lose all control over your safety. That 5 will stifle the future of the nuclear industry more than a 6 denial of the Shoreham license. 7l As an engineer, I have seen the failure of both men l' 8 and machine while working in the engineering lab of a NASA 9 subcontractor I saw firsthand responsible, dedicated people 10 make mistakes. 11 The problem with nuclear technology it is a very 12 , unforgiving technology. There is also another danger that is (~b (_) 13 l not being addressed at Shoreham. 0 1 14 h Albert Spear wrote that the war in Europe during 15 :! World War II could have been ended two years earlier had the 16 Allies bombed Germany's electric power plants. This was 17 , attributed to the desires of generals and industry to keep 18 ,l the war going for their own interests. i 19 , We are not in a war situation, but we are in some l 20 ' respect under siege from terrorist groups. These groups will 21 not be concerned with prolonging their terrorism act against. 22 us. Plants like Shoreham are tempting targets for terrorist 23 groups. We have, in ef fect, built a bomb in our own back-24 yard at Shoreham, both literally and figuratively. Boderal Reporters, Inc. 25 In conclusion, I would just like to dispell the l
10-5-gjw 17,214 1 propaganda going around that safety systems at U. S. nuclear 2 plants cannot be overriden. 3 The NRC recently fined the Philadelphia Electric 4 Company two hundred thousand dollars for safety back-up systems 5 that failed to correct an error, and a plant supervisor 6 deliberately overrode the third back-up system at the Peach 7 Bottom Unit 3 nuclear plant. 8 I also want to remind you of the words of NRC 9 Commissioner Frederick Bernthal concerning the failures of 10 Detroit Edison's problem-plagued Fermi 2 nuclear reactor. 11 After it was shut down after being praised by Commission i 12 ! members. He said that he wouldn't, and I quote: Embarrass r~N I
- i i
() 13! the NRC by reviewing those laudatory remarks now that some l 14 ' many problems ha ze been discovered, unquote. t 15 l I ask you not to embarrass the NRC and insult the 16 j intelligence and common sense of Long Islanders with the l 17 approval of this or any other evacuation plan. 18 Thank you. 19 JUDGE MARGULIES: Jerry Miller? Scott Denowick? 20 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 21 CF 22 SCOTT DENOWICK 23 MR. DENOWICK: Hello, my name is Scott Denowick, l 24 and I come from Belmore, New York, which is around Jones 9 Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 Beach. I am here representing, Sunny Stony Brook Division. gjw 17,215 1 Governments are instituted among men, deriving their 2 just powers from the consent of the governed. According to the 3 Declaration of Independence , the citizens of the United States 4 have the right to voice their opinions and to be heard. 5 If not, perhaps we are not living in a democracy 6 that our foref athers promised us. 7 I would first like to bring up the mock evacuation 8' that occurred on February 13th. It did not take into account 9 rush hour that would have made the . evacuation virtually 10 impossible, and the mass hysteria that would have ensued. i 11 Like bus drivers being concerned about their 12 ' families first. The collisions that would occur from the l'h (_) 13 l zocaing out onto the roads. And even the time spent to fill l 14Il h up cn gas. 15 Shoreham has been placed in an inappropriate 16 position. It is located in an area where two point six 17 l million people live on Long Island, and its ef fects could l l probably even be felt in Manhattan. 18 l 19 The only people that really want it open are 1 20 LILCO and you. Seventy-four percent of Long Island, or one 1 21 million, two hundred and ninety-eight thousand people don't 22 agree with it. Doesn' t the one million, two hundred and 23 ninety-eight thousand people get consideration? 24 According to Webster's dictionary, a democracy is 9ederal Reporters, Inc. A 25 rule of the majority. You live in Washington, so why do you
17,216 10-7-g2w 1 y, I care what happens. k~ 2 You probably think that Long Island is a bunch 3 of hillbillies. Well, you are wrong. That was the past. 4 Long Island now is mostly suburban, and we are educated enough 5 to realize a potential danger. 6 How can you respect a company that has had cost 7 overruns of over one thousand percent. Even during Hurricane 8 Gloria, I had no electricity for a week, and you call this 9 company responsible enough to maintain a nuclear reactor? 10 We have alternatives, such as solar, hydroelectric, 11 and coal that must be looked into. 1 12 l I invite you to move to 'Shoreham and to see your 13 opinion change. 14 Perhaps Shoreham is not a waste. We can use it 15 as a national monument to show our kids in the future, to 16 show them that man went too f ar in - this circumstance , and thus 17 we can educate the public by guided tours.
, 18 That is one idea that we may use.
19 (Applause.) 20 There have been no new orders of nuclear reactors 21 since 1978. Perhaps we realize that we have built too many 22 reactors without realizing abouti.the possible dangers. 23 A recent example that we did not see was the space 24 shuttle Challenger. We, the people _of America, were so Bederal Reporters, Inc. 25 confident that nothing could possibly happen to it. Maybe
10-8-gjw 17,217 1 you can say we were over confident, O 2 Also, I want you to tell me that LILCO will not 3 pass these expenses to us. Where else would they get the
'4 money from?
5 Maybe we should build a road from Suffolk County 6 to Connecticut because of the deadend zone in which you can 7 only travel West on Long Island to evacuate. A terrorist 8 may even try to make Shoreham a bargainir; tool. 9 In my final words, I say if you allow Shoreham to 10 maximize its power, and there is an accident that causes II deaths, you are the murderers, no one else. 4 i j 12 (Applause.) () 13 JUDGE MARGULIES: Meredith Becker? 14 15 16 l 17 l 18 19 i '20 21 22 23 24 al Reporters, Inc. 25 i ! I
1 10-9-gjw 17,218 ' I LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 OF 3 MEREDITH BECKER 4 MS. BECHER: Hi, I would like to read a copy of 5 a letter I wrote recently to President Reagan. 6 This letter is being written to you with the hope 7 that your pro-live belief applies to more than one issue. 8 The question arises as to one can be pro-life and pro-nuclear I
- 9) simultaneously, i
i 10 j The United States must immediately wake up and i 11 ! realize that we are not equipped intellectually or physically 12 l to deal with nuclear technology and its very consequences. Ks 13 Using this technology, whether to create weapons i 14 l or power must be stopped right away, and the U. S. should 15 ' do all that is possible to peacefully persuade all of the 16 nations that for the benefit of everyone involved it is 17 [ crucial to do the same. 18 The recent Soviet incident is a glaring example 19 that can not be ignored or excused or something that only 20 happens somewhere else, or even forgotten because it is 21 over. It will never be over, the the ef fects are worldwide . 22 We have managed to divert our thoughts from the 23 never ending damage since the nuclear business began. 24 The Inc. industry itself is a terrifying threat to life. A 9ederal Reporters, 25 Even without the inevitable accident, radiation
10-10-gjw 17,219 1 is released, in ways that are impossible to dispose of or 2 forget. 1 3 These are but some of the presently known dangers. l 4 Even as inexperienced and ignorant as we are on the subject,
- 5. we can only-guess what the horrible long time results will l
6 be. Let us be honest and intelligent enough to recognize 7 our limitations before further irrepairable damage is done. 8 There is no shield against the dangers of the 9 nuclear age. The United States must throw itself into an 10 effort to develop safe, and non-destructive energy forces 11 l such as solar power. 12 l Human beings must learn to take energy and resource t- ! _) 13 ! conservation seriously, even if it means personal sacrifice. I 14 h It will be well worth it when we have a world free 15 , of nuclear nightmare. 16 From that, I think you can figure out where I stand 17 on Shoreham. Thank you. 18 l 19 (Applause.) 20 JUDGE MARGULIES: Now -- 21 , MR. McCONE:- Mr. Chairman, I am leaving this here. 22 l I won't wait to read it, but I want the record to show that 23 , I turned the letter in. 24 JUDGE MARGULIES: Will you give your name, please? ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 MR. McCONE: Arthur McCone, from Ronkonkoma.
17,220 10-ll-gjw JUDGE MARGULIES: Thank you. Doctor Ralph Knopf? 1 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 OF 4 DOCTOR RALPH KNOPF 5 DR. KNOPF: I am here -- well, let me introduce t I am Dr. Ralph Knopf. I have been teaching mathamatics 6f myself. 7 at C. W. Post College of Long Island University for twenty-8 five years . I am a member of the faculty council, which is 9 the elected body of the f aculty of C. W. Post, which is I 10 j located here in Nassau County. i 11 I am a member of the faculty senate, which is the i 12 ! elected voice of all of Long Island University. I am the u) 13 President of the C. W. Post Collegial Federation, which is 14 + the Union organizing the full time, all full time faculty i 15 at C. W. Post. 16 I am here because I was informed this very week 17 : that C. W. Post has been placed on the list of those who 18 are cooperating with the LILCO emergency evacuation plan. 19 f I wish to say to you categorically, as a member 1 i 20 1 of the bodies that I am a member of, and as the President 21 of the union, that this question of C. W. Post cooperating i 22 ! with the LILCO emergency evacuation plan has never been 23! raised before anybody of the faculty of C. W. Post. l 24 l Has never been raise.d before any student organiza-l waai nemnen, inc. i 25 tion at C. W. Post. That whereas it does affect the term l l l
/O-31-gjw 17,221 .
, y_ l' and condition of employment of the faculty at C. W. Post, it (~ 2 has never been negotiated or suggested to be negotiated 3 with the union at C. W. Post. 4 I would like to state that I consider -- that 5 we consider this 'unconscientionable , we consider it improper, 6 an improper way to run a university, and that the union will 7' explore the possibility of legal action to deal with this 8 unilateral act by the administration not to negotiate with 9 the union, a question of term and con'dition of employment. 10 (Applause.) 11 Let me -- what I have just said is what I am l 12 i empowered to say to you as President of the Union. I should 13 like, however, to add some other remarks. 14 , First, I should like to remind you that despite the i 15 l fact the television program that the media spread the idea 16 directly af ter the Chernobyl disaster that that disaster 17 had something to do with inadequate safety conditions at the 18 plant, that despite the fact that we were all told that 19 there were no containment wall around the plant at Chernobyl, 20 the. fact is that there was. 21 The fact is that if you read the May 19th New York 22 Times, you will find that the NRC, basing itself on CIA 23 reports, concludes that there were, indeed, sturdy-and 24 massive walls around the Chernobyl plant. aederal Reporters, Inc. 25 It is also a fact that that plant incorporated
10-13-gjw 17,222 1 a great many of the safety conditions that anybody would want 2 in a plant. 3 The fact that that . disaster took place, that it 4 has poisoned the life of the Soviet Ukraine, is something 5 that we had all better consider. 6 And let me say that the Soviet explanation of this, 7 that it is due to human error, that error has not been 8 correcte d. 9 By the way, it seems to me that when we see things 10 like what hust happened, like Frank Petrone, because he
- 11) l wants to take an independent position on the question in l
12 l front of him before the FEMA, he is forced to resign, what 13 are we doing? We are preparing for laying the basis for 14 future human error. I 15 f And I will say also to you as somebody who has 16 , traveled in and out of Long Island on a daily basis, on the 17 l highways, that it is absolutely obvious that even'on a day 18 when there is not a nuclear disaster, there is no way of 19 evacuating Long Island. 20 I would like also to say, continuing on.the question 21 of the Chernobyl matter, that I read a report that seventy-22 five percent of the people of Long Island expressed their 23 disapproval of the Shoreham -- the opening of Shoreham. I am (} '24 Em ederal Reporters, Inc. sure that if the' people of Long Island got the straight story
-25 about what happened at Chernobyl, and the fact of the safety
10-15-gjw 17,223 I conditions that did prevail there, and the disaster that f
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2 occurred despite this, that figure would be ninety-nine 3 percent, it wouldn' t be seventy five percent. 4 (Applause.) 5 I would also like to say something about my 6 general feeling, because I am a person that believes in the 7 ability of human intellect to deal with human problems. 8 I believe in technology. I am not someone who 9 is categorically opposed to nuclear technology. However, 10 looking at the facts leads to the unmistakable conclusion 11 that we are moving too fast. That we are spreading this 12 this too massively. That we are doing something that is g i (/ i 13 going to destroy people, and has destroyed people, and 14 , is threatening the lives of the people of Long Island. 15 I first became interested in the issue I must 16 say, because it does run counter to my own feeling that 17 : is very favorable to technology. When the 1979 incident 18 at Three Mile Island took place, I didn't think that that 19 kind of a thing would take place, but it did. I was 20 warne d, incidentally, by Ralph Nadar at a meeting that 21 had taken place several years before that such accidents 22 , were being prepared to happen. Indeed, it did happen. 23 At that time, there was a Commission established ) l 24 Aederal Reporters, by Inc. the President of the United States, called the Kemeny 25 Commission. It is something that we don't talk about much l I
10-16-gjw 17,224 1 any more, but it so happens that the Kemeny Commission, which
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2 consisted of twelve people, twelve Commissioners, that 3 of that Commission, six of those Commissioners voted for 4 a moratorium on the building of nuclear plants until there 5 was some kind of decent guideline that they themselves could 6 not state at that time , some decent guideline on the question 7 of where to site nuclear plants. 8 And I quote from a statement by John Kemeny -- by 9 the way, that resolution did not pass, because you needed i 10 seven out of the twelve, not six -- and John Kemeny writes: II I The Commission considered three di f ferent po 1sible recommen-i 12 ; dations for a temporary halt on construction permits. /' ; ! I t/ 13 t Eight different Commissioners voted for at least 14 L one of these proposals. Unfortuanely, we could not agree 15 on the appropriate crititera for such a halt. Our reasons 16 j for f ailure to reach agreement are complex, and may be found i 17 by examining the transcript of our meetings of October 16, 18 2 0 th , and 21st. 19 I don't think, and I don't that anybody thinks, that i 20 looking at the condition of Long Island, that the siting of 21 Shoreham, of a nuclear plant at Shoreham could possibly meet 22 any kind of reasonable standards of where you should put 23 a nuclear plant. 24 Let me appeal to you. Let us show some courage. oderal Reporters, Inc. 25 Let's show some courage and stop this steamroller that is
10-17-gjw 17,225 4, 1 leading towards a disaster here on Long Island. Thank you. 2 (Applause.) 3 JUDGE MARGULIES: Joseph Mulovie? 4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5 OF 6 JOSEPH MULOVIE 7 MR. MULOVIE: Hello. I attend Sunny at Stony Brook, 8 and I have an associate degree in Engineering, and will be 9 receiving my Bachelor's Degree in Earth and Space Sciences 10 with degrees in chemistry and geology. 11 l JUDGE MARGULIES: Could you speak closer to the 12 microphone. We will hear you better. 13 MR. MULOVIE: Also, as a night clerk. I am here 14 to speak about reactor safety, i In a boiling water reactor like Shoreham, the 15 l 16 l steam goes directly from the reactor to the turbine. This 17 l system increases the chance that radio nuclides will get-4 i 18 into the condenser water of the turbine, and cause 19 radioactive water pollution outside of the plant. 20 The Sound surrounding Shoreham has an abundant 21 lobster industry as well as other shell fish. These are 22 then sold to people and then eaten.. 23 Once radio nuclides are ingested, they can settle 24 into organ tissue and cause cancer. f) 6-y Neral Regmners Inc. l 25 About one-tenth of the power produced by the plant
10-18-gjw 17,226 p_ 1 is used internally to operate the plant. If the power fails,
. k_} 2 none of the cooling pumps leading to the-core can work.
i 3 Therefore, a secondary power source in the form 4 of a diesel generator is provided in assisting the core i 5 coolant to reaching the core. 6 These are typically designed to snap on thirty
- 1 7 seconds after trouble develops. If the generator f ails .to S operate in an emergency, a melt'down will occur.
J 9 The Shoreham power plant tested its emergency 1 i 10 generators, with abundant . failures. Is this a sign of the j 11 quality of the plant? 12 The failure of these generators to operate in a 13 real crisis will lead to a fuel melt, i-14 The consequences of that event does not need any i' 15 further explanation. The rupturing of a reactor may not i 16 ; be all that difficult. The bolts that secure the head of the t 17 : reactor have a safety margin of only thirteen percent. ) 18 Uncertain calculations and strength measurements for these 19 bolts are typically rated about twenty percent. This hardly- ] 20 guarantees safe operation under normal conditions, much less 21 a serious crisis, i " 22 A pressure water reactor typically operates at-
; .s 23 twenty one hundred and fif ty pounds per square inch. If
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those calculations for uncertainly are too marginal, the ( 24 L ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 -- if construction supervision is not status quo, then the 1 - - - + , . - , - - - . - . . , , , , - --, , , . , , , , ,- - - - -
10-19-gjw 17,227 1 pressure of the core builds up through the vaporization 2 caused by excess heat in the core, nothing will stop the 3 reactor lid from blasting through the containment ' dome. 4 Shoreham is a death trap in the event of a nuclear 5 crisis. I live in Wading River, which is five miles from 6 the plant. I speak for my f amily and many other _ people on 7 Long Island's North Fork. Evacuation before lethal doses 8 of radio nuclies are inhaled is impossible, 9 Since the grim dawn of the nuclear age forty. 10 years ago, a highly sensitive biosphere is being degenerated 11 into a toxic environment. The very existence of mankind 12 balances within this highly sensitive environment. I 13 The release of radio nuclides will bring not only 14 the cause of generations of genetic damage, but could wipe l 15 ; l out all life as well.
! 16 ! Has .anyone ever thought of the amount of radiation ! l'7' in a containment vessel? A few years in line with a regular, 18 typical nuclear . power plant of eight hundred megowatts, will 19 create enough radiation -- will' create large enough radiation 20 levels comparable to radiation fallout of at least twenty 21 megaton hydrogen bomb.
22 This creates proliferation problems as well as ; I 23 making a great target for terrorism. Why explode a nuclear ( L)w., n 24 bomb when -you can use conventional explosives on a nuclear ! n., . I 25 power plant. s
10-2o-gjw 17,228 1 The fallout would leave a hundred mile radius O 2 devas tated. Albert Einstein had gone on record stating: The 3 application of the power of the adom should be left to the 4 public. 5 The creation of a Long Island Power Authority would 6 give us that freedom. 7 Thank you very much. 8 (Applause.) 9 JUDGE MARGULIES: Netty Beasland? I 6 10 j LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 1 1 11 1 OF I 12 l NETTY BEASLAND ( s (_.) 13 :l MS. BEASLAND: Good evening. My name is Netty a 14i Beasland. I moved to Long Island thirty-five years ago 15 l from the coal mines of Pennsylvania, i 16 I would like to preface my comments by expressing 7; l' graditute to a system daat permits us to voice our opinion 18 ! without fear of censure or reprisal. 19 i Many of us here are the progidy of emigrant 20 parents who fled persecution, never lose our awe of being 21 afforded this luxury. gg 22 , I have no inside CIA information to offer, and I , l l 23 l think it is healthy to question our decision-makers. l 24 We have our fears allayed by explanations in oderal Reporters, Inc. 25 laymen's language. It is unhealthy to have your politicians
10-21-gjw 17,229 1 and your media manipulate us with rhetoric and self-serving 7 2 groups, 3 I wouldn't pretend to insult the intelligence of 4 this investigative committee, or the assemblage, by 5 debating the merits of nuclear power. I know as I stand right 6 here, I am forty-four miles from the unlicensed Shoreham f 7 plant, but I am'only thirty-nine miles from the operating 8 plant in Buchanan, New York. And I don't fee'l threatened. 9 I trust that there are no profit-seekers on my 10 NRC Committee, and that their investigation deemed that the 11 plant in Buchanan was safe and operable. 12 Even before you came here tonight, and these young ( 13 people tutored you on nuclear energy, the same integrity 14 that you employed licensing the other plants, will rule . your 15 judgment on Shoreham's licensing. (Audience disruption.) 1-6, If you don't respect my beauty, respect my age , l 17 I still refer to your integrity, gentlemen, though it seems 18 to be in great dispute. Your politicians have hyped the 19 anger of these people against LILCO to a fever that clouds. 20 that ability to be objective.
~
21 It is not a new ploy. Hitler used it. Find a 22 common demoninator for everone to hate, and you control the 23 masses. LILCO has issued -- was issued a construction permit f} 24 for Shoreham in 196 8. 1968. That was eighteen years ago. tu seer i neponers, inc. 25 During that eighteen years, there have been a lot
10-22-gjw 17,230 1 of errors at LILCO, but Dr. Catacinos quickly corrected. 2 (Audience disruption) 3 I ask you to show me the courtesy you showed the 4 people who had your interests, which is my right as an 5 American. 6 I am sorry. Excuse me, and excuse their ignorance. 7 JUDGE MARGULIES: Will you please move on with 8! your statement? 9 MS. BEASLAND: Eighteen years of upgrading the i i 10 i plant, as the industry developed more stringent safety 11 roles. Eighteen years of harassment by uninformed 12 l demonstrators, eighteen years of which inflationary spiral (~ ; l () 13 increased building costs to astronomical heights. 14 : I End 10. 15 !, MS fols. 16 'I a d 17 18 . I 19 20 21 22 23 24 ederal Reporters, Inc. 25
Sim 11 1 17,231 I g Every picayune incident at Shoreham it headlined 2 in y ur daily paper and televised on local channels with 3 Wayne Prospect or Richard Kessel gesticulating. They 4 spent millions in their Suffolk Tunaville Trooley Electric 5 Company, and this made everyone angry, very angry. 6 Now you can listen to me. I am angry, too. I 7 am angry at WALK Radio Station for daring to say that they 8 w uldn't broadcast an alert through they know the necessity 9 is very remote. 10 I am angry at my Governor who is so confident it of his political powers that he would cover his eyes and 12 say to hell with your evacuation plan. I won't even listen /~ } 13 to it, let along participate in it. C/ 14 No plan, no license. Catch-22. 15 I am angry at those of you who purchased houses 16 after 1968 and now you want everything you don't like moved. 17 Evidently Gruchi's blowing up of Bellport was forgotten by 18 his free fireworks display the other night. 19 I am angry at Mrs. Nora Bredes who threw a picture 20 of her child on your desk the other day at your hearings. 21 Better she should take the picture to the School Board and 22 ask the local School Board to do more drug and alcohol 23 counseling. ! 24 I am angry for the abuse that my lineman husband 25 and the 5,000 fine people at LILCO have been subjected to,
Sim 11-2 17,232 verba1 abuse. These people help build this island, a ll 2 company that never had a whisper of adverse criticism until 3 your politicians made them your favorite football. 4 I an especially angry at our Govenror for 5 appointing Peter A. Bradford to head the PSC. and according 6 to Newsday's article last night admits that he would have 7 appointed someone who was more in agreement with him. 8 Finally, I am angry that in the sophisticated 9 high-tech area that we live in that you would not take 10 pride in being trend setters, that you would not take 11 pride in having a safe operable plant that is definitely 12 the answer to the energy problems of tomorrow. (~ > 13 Remember, we live here, too. I live here. We L// 14 are your neighbors. Our children, our grandchildren, 15 we live next door to you, and we live next door to Shoreham. 16 If you are smart you will stay angry, but you i 17 will be angry for the right reasons. 18 I thank you for your time, gentlemen. 1 19 JUDGH MARGULIES: We will take a 10-minute 1 l M recess. l l 21 (Recess taken. ) ' 22 JUDGH MARGULIES: Please come to order. Would 23 you please resume your seats. 24 . The next speaker is G. V. Cruchiana.
Sim 11-3 17,233 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2 op 3 GITANO CRUCHIANA 4 MR. CRUCHIANA: My name is Gitano Cruchiana. I 5 live in Comac, New York. 6 Gentlemen, thousands of Long Islanders commute 7 by car to New York City daily. Despite their grumbling, 8 they accept the one to two-hour trip as a routine necessity. 9 One summer weekends hundreds of thousands visit Long 10 Island's beachs. They cope with truly horrendous traffic 11 conditions to get chere, but they are not deterred by these 12 conditions. {; ~- 13 Similarly, temporary tieups do not phase the 14 throngs that converge on places like Shay Stadium, Roosevelt 15 Raceway and Nassau Colosseum to enjoy the excitement and 10 sports and culture events. II Considering the logistics involved in these 18 really massive but common place movements of people and 19 vehicles the challenge of evacuating a.sparhely populated, 20 virtually rural are such as that around Shoreham appears 21 trivial indeed. 22 The geometric properties of a 10-mile radius l 23 circular area are such that 64 percent of the population of l 24 that area is located four miles or less from the perimeter. 25 Therefore, at an average walking pace of' three miles per
Sim 11-4 17,234 hour-64 percent of the evacuation zone population would 1 be able to leave the area on foot in a matter of anywhere 2 from a few minutes-to a maximum of one hour and 20 minutes. 3 Only 36 percent of the population and those unable 4 to work would actually need transportation. The transporta-5 tion could be bicycles, mopeds, dirt bikes, motorcycles 6 school buses, commercial vehicles as well as passenger 7 cars. 8 The refusal of the local officals to take part 9 in testing LILCO's evacuation plan is pure political 10 nonsense. There is no more convincing way of proving or 11 disproviing the assertion that evacaution is impossible 12 than by actual test. [s. s) 13 I and other Long Islanders are entitled to have 14 this question answered conclusively by test and not by - 15 political oratory. 16 The participation in emergency planning is a 17 responsibility of the local officials. Deliberate refusal 18 to exercise this responsibility should not be allowed to 19 be used as a easy devious device to achieve political ends. 20 If such politicians are given the power to 21 veto licensing of nuclear plants in this manner, the future 22 of nuclear power in this country is surely doomed. 23 (Applause.) 24 There should be no question that the island's 25 many schools, libraries and other public buildings, et cetera
Sim 11-5 17,235 would easily accommodate the evacuee popualtion, and it is I utterly unrealistic to suppose that in a real emergency 2 the people of Long Island, including most politicians, would 3 fail to respond eagerly to assist in every way possible to 4 ease the plight of the evacuees. 5 Many of the evacuees would probably find shelter 6 immediately with friends and relatives. I believe that 7 your Commission more than any other individual or group 8 posseses the most comprehensive and valid data and the 9 expertise to judge the safety of this facility against.all 10 reasonable objective criteria. 11 Those who oppose Shoreham and nuclear power in 12 general persist in evoking the spectres of Three Mile Isladd 13 and Chernobyl in order to promote public distrust and 14 hysteria, but they refuse to acknowledge the hundreds of 15 plant years of safe operation that have been achieved by 16 plants that do not even have the advantages of the additional 17 safety factors provided at Shoreham, nor are they willing 18 to face the serious need to continue to develop the only 19 viable technology available to free future generations from 20 dependence on the earth's dwindling fossil fuel resources. 21 It would be unthinkable to leave the licensing. 22 decision dealing with a highly technical and important 23 subject to the consensus of a populace which for years bas 24 been misinformed, confused and intellectually anesthetized 25 by the long war of attrition waged against LILCO by coalitions
l Sim 11-6 17,236 i of anti-capitalists and anti-nuclear activists and their 4 political allies. l 2 3 (Distrubance from the audience.) 4 There is a prima facie case for the tactics 5 I am talking about. 6 This past week, for example, when LILCO announced 7 its intention of applying for a rate increase next year, 8 the Presiding Office of the Suffolk County Legislature g was reported in the press as having immediately asked the 10 full Legislature to " declare war" on LILCO. 11 The gentleman evidently.has not patience for 12 learning more of the boring details of the application since
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13 he is busy campaigning for a Congressional seat. 14 It is not suprising that after years of being 15 a highly visible target of sniping by political opportunists 16 the company image is badly battered, despite the major and 17 vital role that the company has had in the phenomenal 18 economic and physical development of the Long Island region 19 in the past three or four decades. 20 Those of us ratepayers and taxpayers who realize 21 that we and we alone will ultimately bear the cost of time 22 and money wasted by years of obstructionist tactics by n those opposed to this plant can only rely on the hope that 24 your Commission will soon provide a final rational resolution m of the matter.
sim 11- 7 17,237 Thank you. (Applause and distrubances from the audience.) O' JUDGH MARGULIES: Emma Stammatellos. 3 (No response. ) Victoria Stuferlaza. 5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6 OF 7 VICTORIA STUFERLAZA 8 MS. STUFERLAZA: First of all, I would like to say that I didn't come prepared to talk. I didn't know that I would be able to, and I am very grateful for the i opportunity to do so. I wish I' knew who I was talking to,
,_ and I wish you knew who all of us really were. \~~) ~
I 14 So I think I would like to start out with a ' bit of an introduction. My name is Victoria Stuferlaza. j i I come from Elmont in Nassau County, and was born in 1953, the year the Manhattan Project asked how are the babies. I used to be a volunteer in pediatrics at the Long Island Jewish Hospital Medical Center where I held and loved for a little while a little boy with a big tumor in his belly. I still have a picture of him. I like to remember him. 22 When Schneider Childrens Hospital opened, a 24 Japanese woman was put in charge of pediatric volunteers, and I wonder if these things are coincidents. I don't
Sim 11-8 17,238 I want to talk about evacuation. Evacuation is meaningless. In the event of an accident I would probably head for the
) 2 3 water, and the nearest would be Hemsted Lake Park. I say l 4 that a little bit sarcastically', but it is because I know 5 that 'n Japan what the people did without even thinking l 6 about it was just something that they just did,_was they; j- 7 kind of made a procession down near the water. Everybody 8 wanted to be near the water, and maybe that is one of the 9 reasons why I don't move from Long Island. I would want 10 to be near the water if the damn thing blew up.
11 I do want to talk'about a few observations I've 12 made. I took a ride to Michigan to visit the university 13 there. I th' ink I wanted to figure out what to do with ( 14 the rest of my life, and one of the possibilities is going 15 on for my Ph.D. 16 The air was a little better than it had been 4 17 on Long Island, but not too much better._ On my way home 18 in passing through Pennsylvania I saw what must have been 19 a couple of hundred birds, sparrows. I recognize them be'cause 20 we used to have a lot of them around here when I was~a kid 21 and they were setting on the telephone wires. I think1they 22 were our birds and I think they were waiting to come home, Z3 or they were waiting for the locusts to go away. Of course, 24 I used to wake up_and hear birds and now I wake up and hear ! 8) 25 locusts. And I don't like locusts too much. They-don't i
Sim 11- 9 17,239 1 sound too good. I have been told they are supposed to ll 2 come out of the ground every 17 years, but I have been 3 hearing them ever summer. 4 In the morning I sometimes hear my neighbor 5 throwing up. He has cancer, but he doesn't always throw 6 up. He used to be in the war. He was a soldier. So he 7 never says much about being sick, and it is only through 8 my mother that I know that he has cancer because he never 9 said that he did. He only throws up on the bad days. 10 And my other neighbor just had her breast removed, 11 but she doesn't say anything either. I think that they 12 think because they are old they don't count, and because they r'S 13 old they think they don't matter. LJ 14 I don't spend a lot of time with them. We mind 15 our own business, but I grew up with those people and I 16 feel for them. I seem to be okay. So I don't have any 17 Personal complaint, except that my mother is head cook in 18 an elementary school, and on one of the days when the air 19 was really bad she came home and she screamed out because 20 it seemed to be kind of a neighborhood habit to scream out. 21 I think everybody was scared or paranoid or something 22 because everybody was hollering out things and that had n never happened before either. Maybe it was nuclear madness. 24 I don't now what to call it, but people would just say things 2 right out in the middle of the street.
Sim 11- 10 17,240 1 And my mother came home and said you are supposed ll 2 to close the windows. My father happened to be out jogging 3 that day because none of us knew what the hell was going on. 4 And today he jogged again for the first time in a long. time. 5 The air was pretty good today. 6 The problem is most-of us, the people in my 7 neighborhood, and I don't know about the people-here, but 8 most of the people that I grew up with, we don't know what-9 is going on, and we are not stupid people. We are just
- 10. busy working and probably closer-to the truth is that we 11 have faith in. God and we have trust in our leaders,'and we 12 have always'had that, and I want to continue to have that.
13 But sometimes I can't help but feel that that 14 is what government wants,.for us not.to question, but to. 15 just accept everything and they are counting on us to do 16 that while I count the petiqueya on my body. 17 I agree with the gentleman who spoke before, 18 that' I have always been patriotic and I grew up in a school 19 system where we saluted the flat each day, and when I was
- 3) in Europe and encountered kind of -- I guess it was a' kind 21 of verbal harassment or terrorism or something, I went around n singing God Bless America at the top of my lungs. Maybe n I could have gotten myself. killed for it, but I think the
~ 1 24 point is -- and' whether I am patriotic or not, I guess l s other people can try to determine, but it is something in .i
- ~ ,,
Sim 11-11 1 me that I grew up with. I was raised having belief in my lh 2 government, to trust it. 3 But I am starting to feel like, I wonder, can I, 4 because you know I get catalogs, I think it'yas,from'the 5 Smithsonian or the National Trust For Historical Preservation, 6 and they.were selling a doll house for $4,000 and a bird , 7 houes for a couple of hundred. 8 Well, maybe on the days when the air was really 9 bad if I had a lot of money'I could hope in my plane and 10 . fly.off to Texas somewhere. But we can't do.that here. We 11 are stuck here, but we are stuck here mostly because we 12 want to be here. 13 We love Long Island, most of.us. I don't know 14 about the people who didn't always live here, but I always 15 have. My uncle built houses here and my brother still does. 16 But when he gets a pinched nerve he can't put those houses 17 up. 18 And I simply don't think it is God's will that 19 I sit around and thing about all this stuff, and the young M women that I have know my age who.are having their first l 21 child say you can't think like that, Vicky. You can't think' l 22 about all that stuff because you'll make yourself crazy. M And I really think that God would prefer that I go forth' 24 and multiply,. but I wonder. I wonder. Do.I want to bring S I M a child into this world and do I want'to close the windows ., e -- -
- + , - - , , , -
+ .m- - - ----
Sim 11- 12 17,242 1 and say okay, you can't go outside and play today. Or do 2 I have to teach him, look, when you don't see the birds 3 here that is when you don't go outside. That is when you ^ 4 stay in the house and close the windows.and put the air 5 conditioner on and look at the television of play with 6 your Computer. 7 I don't know if I want that kind of life for my child. 8 Maybe-I am getting a little angry now and I intend to, but as I 9 said I didn't come here intending to talk, 10 and I am glad that you are listening to just plain pe ple. 11 I think that is what a lot of us are, and we don't 12 want to leave.
.I could' move, but I would leave every '
,7 i
\ 13 aunt and uncle and cousin and brother, mother and father N a/
14 that I have, and neighbors, too. I am not just for myself and family. 15 I am for all of us on Long Island. We want 16 to stay here. We don't want to move. This is cur island. 17 Those are our birds and we don't want them to go becuase 18 when they_go something that feeds on them goes and when 19 they go something that feeds on them goes, and I think we 20 are not just human resources that can be depleted. 21 There are a lot of us, true, but there aren't 22 a lot of Long Islanders. There might be a lot of Americans, 23 but we are a special breed. Thank you. \ h 25 I^PPl^""*"}
Sim 11-13 17,243 i JUDGH MARGULIES: Robert Macheeta. h 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3 OF 4 ROBERT MACHETTA 5 MR. MACHETTA: My name is Robert Machetta, and j l 6 I am a Democratic candidate from the 5th Senatorial District.! l 7 I come to you not only as the possible represent- I 8 ative of a constituency, but as a parent and educator and 9 a concerned citizen. to Let me be as brief and direct as possible. There 11 is no safe way to evacuate the area around Shoreham. 12 Governor Cuomo agrees with it and Senators Moynihan and T'T 13 D'Amato agree with it, and even Donald Regan, a Presidential i \ ' j 14 adviser has stated such. ! i 15 (Applause.) l l 16 The Suffolk County Legislature is opposed to the 17 opening of Shoreham. The Nassau County Board of Supervisors 18 unanimously came out against using the Nassau Colosseum as )l l 19 an evacuation station. - l 20 (Applause . ) 21 And the State Legislature has given a mandate 22 signed by Governor Cuomo on July 25th. Some school districts 23 are unwilling to participate in a drill, in fset'most of ^ 24 them. A radio station does not want to be the emergency 25 channel to be used in case of an accident, and on and on.
. .~ - -. - -
Sim 11--14 17,244 Three-fourths of the people of Long Island are saying no to Shoreham. 3 A cidents can happen with nuclear power plants and in fact did. There was a disaster at Chernobyl. The fact of the matter is that when you.are dealing with nuclear power the accidents may be far more catastrophic and the consequences are not.only immediate, but are-felt
! long after it has occurred.
g Radiation fallout affects everyone, the wealthy,
- the poor, the middle class. Like Poe's Mask of the Red i 10 Death, no one can hide behind a castle wall, an estate, a j g house, a co-op or a, condominium. We will all'beeaffected 9 and infected and contaminated.
We are in fact a civilized society and we are a democratic republic. In a democracy the people speak and the majority rules. We on Long Island have spoken. g Let's keep Shoreham closed, not only for ourselves, but for our Children and our children's children. g H. G. Wells has said civilization is a race g between education and catastrophe. Let's avoid a disaster l g and let's learn from Shoreham and Three Mile Island. Do not license Shoreham. Shoreham must.not go g on line. i i I g Thank you. g (Applause.)
-, -- - ,. - . , n- . ~ . _ , - - - ,,.~.-.,n, , - - - - - - , . , - - - - - - - , . .
Sim 11-15
- 17,245-JUDGH MARGULIES: Hanna Commonoff.
) 2 LIMITED APPEARANCE' STATEMENT 3 OF 4 HANNA COMMONOFF 1
5 MR. COMMONOFF: Good evening, and thank you for
- 6. coming to Long Island.
4 a My name is Hanna Commonoff. For 12 years, from 8 1974 through-1985 I' represented the City of Long Beach 9 on Nassau County's south shore on the Nassau County Board 10 of Supervisors. 11 Prior to that-I served my community as a member 12 of the School Board.for 15 years as a member and leader ! 13 f many civic associations and more. i. 14 Most recently I have been a member of the nine-i r 15 Person blue ribbon Shoreham Commission appointed by County
- f. 16 Executive Percel. I am not Johnny-Come-Lately to the
- g. issue of nuclear power and the question of Shoreham.
18 In 1974 soon after I became Supervisor and took 19 office I met privately with the then leadership of the Long 20 Island Lighting Company to urge them to promote energy 21 conservations programs as an alternative to the James Port i n Reactor.. You will recall they had planned to build two n 700 megawatt plants there. 24 After the Three Mile Accident in 1979 I repeatly , S) 25 called for closer examination of the hazards of Shoreham i
.--.,,..m.. . m.. -_ _ . _ _ _ _ _ , . - . . - ___m.____ ___ ~. ,..m.,y..
-. - - . -m-, , , , - - --
4 Sim 11-16 17,246 3 and of the feasibility of energy alternatives. I have 2 appeared at campus hearings here in Mineola and Happauge, h 3 Riverhead, Southampton, the latter before the Committee j 4 on Siting and Electric Generation. 5 Last year on May 17th I wrote to the NRC to 6 Oppose the.use cf the Nassau Colosseum during an evacuation 7 from Shoreham for reasons' ranging from possible contamination 8 of the Colosseum to not wanting to be a party to facilitate-g or expedite an evacuation plan for LILCO. 10 If you remember at the time when LILCO needed 3 11 an evacuation plan, they planned to use the colosseum and 12 there was some question as to whether or not the County 13 had given permission. The Board of Supervisors had not, but 14 I was the only one who made a statement to that effect and 15 sent a letter. 4 16 I am here today to tell you that my community 17 of Long Beach, along with the rest of Long Island, cannot J 18 afford the risks from operating Shoreham. The reasons 19 that I gave in that letter to the NRC are just as valid g 'today. 21 In the most recent evacuation plan developed , 1 1 22 by LILCO, that is to use utility personnel to guide and i j l , 23 assist it. the evacuation process. 24 The reception >sitefor sites they hav~e jusda . I 25 announced would be LILCO plants and propertise. That is l I i i
l Sim 11-17 17,247 1 the most ridiculous tning I ever heard of. How are you h 2 going to bring people there? Will there be facilities for 3 decontamination? Will LILCO personnel, devoted as they may 4 be, risk their own lives and forsake their own families to 5 enter the Shoreham plant in the case of an accident? The 6 consequences of a major accident are simply too monstrous. 7 We cannot and must not risk the health and safety of 8 millions of Long Islanders along with our homes, our 9 communities and the ecological integrity of this island for 10 i single energy project which can easily be replaced given 11 a little time and political leadership. 12 The New York Times of September 23 reported a (~] 'J 13 Federal Government-study that found that Chernobyl released 14 as much fallout as all of the many hundreds of nuclear bombs 15 ever exploded combined. What a calamity that is for humanity. 16 Did we fight to stop Soviet and American atmospheric tests 17 in the 50's and 60's? Did Kennedy and Kruschev sign the 18 historic Test Ban Treaty in 1963 only to permit nuclear 19 power to contaminate our environment in the same way? M Make no mistake, the design differences between 21 Chernobyl n'nd Shoreham are irrelevant. What Shoreham proves 22 is that human beings are too fallible for so much lethal 23 radioactivity to be concentrated safely in one place. 24 , The Department of Energy claims that Shoreham j 25 is crucial to the future of the nuclear industry. I reject ! l l l
17,248 3 Sim 11-18 2 . 1- that equation, but if nuclear power can't survive without () 2 Shoreham, let them go down together. A technology that = 3 threatenes not just our lives, but'the lives of future i 4 . generations and the ecological health of our earth isn't. !- 5 worth.,savinh. . 6 Please-let Long Islanders decide our own' fate.
- 7 The people of Nassau and Suffolk Counties have made it clear
! 8 that we don't want and we.cannot have Shoreham. j g (Applause.) 10 If I may have another moment. .I made a few j 11 notes while some of the people were talking. You know, 12 we get into the habit of thinking of Shoreham as a $4.5 i 4 13 billion plant, and that is what it cost, but actually in i
- 14 terms of real value and in terms of the wattage it provides,
) 15 it is really like a billion or a billion and a half dollars. 1 16 That is all. And it is no bargain. With oil prices what ! i 17 they are today, and there doesn't seem to-be many people 18 who are saying the oil prices are going to go up for the 19 next 10 or 15 years, it is cheaper to run~on oil than it is 1 20 on nuclear, especially with the costs of the nuclear-plants 1 21 as they envision. n As far as nuclear plants are concerned, I can see u some use for them in the future, perhaps in the year 2000 24 when the technology is improved, when plants are made more 9 s quickly and when the parts are more interchangeable and they 6 i I
17,249 Sim-ll-19 will all be made according to certain accepted standards.
) 2 Actually, Shoreham is not necessary for LILCO 3 to operate. There is enough power there and there is more
- 4 Power coming with the transportation lines being begun i
5 from Rochester and on so. There is just a question of a , 6 few peak days during the year, six or seven days during the 7 year when there is~really a burden on LILCO. , 8 And with all the things that are being planned, g with co generation coming from all the garbage plants and f 10 with people realizing and companies realizing the ravings 11 that they can enjoy.with co-generation, there is not going 12 to be a shortage of energy. 13 I feel that the risks are far too great to warrant
}
14 the opening of Shoreham. 15 Thank you very much. 16 (APPl ause.) 17 Catherine Sinnon. 18 . LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 19 .OF i m CATHERINE SINNON I 21 MS. SINNON: Good evening, gentlemen. 22 I spoke to you on Tuesday in Haupphauge, but f 23 I was very dissatisfied with what I had to say that day. I 24 didn't feel that I had shared with you the core of what I 25 needed to share with you. 1
~ _ . , _ . , _ _ , _ _ . _ - _ , . . . _ . . . _ _ . . , . _ _ , _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . , . , , _ . , _ _ , . - . . . . . . _ . . . . .
Sim 11-20 17,250 1 And I remember your names, Mr. Kline, 2 Mr. Margulies and Mr. Shon. v 3 My is Catherine Sinnon, and I live in Ronkoncona. 4 I hadn't given it enough thought at the time, and since i 5 then I have thought about it a little bit more. And I I 6 have decided that this week is a very special week on i 7 Long Island, and I am not even sure that all of us realize l i 8 it. ' 9 You are representatives here, and we experience 10 you as representatives of our government which is the most 11 powerful government on the face of the earth. It is not ! i 12 just economically and militarily, but also technologically. i
' N 13 i Shoreham, unfortunately, represents one piece 14 of that technological superiority, and we have exported that 15 all over the world. We created the technology that 1 16 Chernobyl released on the European people and on the rest i j
17 of the world. ! 18 And if Shoreham succeeds, if LILCO succeeds, perhap s 19 nuclear power will have a future on this earth. But if 20 Shoreham fails, nuclear power dies, and we know that.
.21 In the years since we have come to know this, 22 since we have come to understand what nuclear power means, 23 the people of Long Island have become very powerful people.
24 I know of a person who picketed outside the 9 25 Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant in 1975. He was a lone person
17,251 Sim 11-21 1 there. He was a man of about 22 years old. He is not a 1 2 man in his mid-30's. He spent his entire adult life l 3 fighting the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 4 I have spent most of my entire adult life fightinc 5 the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. There are other people 6 in this room who have spent their entire adult lives 7 fighting the Shoreham Nuclear Pcwer plant. 8 Nora Bredes who showed you a picture of her 9 child, I remember her when she was a single woman. I was 10 at demonstrations with her where they met the man she 11 married. I was at demonstrations with her when she was 12 Pregnant. I was at demonstrations with her when she carried 13 him as an infant in her arms. She has grown up into the ,r3 t ! K- 14 mother of a child that she would have to evacuate in the 15 movement against the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. 16 This is a commitment that we carry in our a k 17 bones, deep in our bones. When the Three Mile Accident 2
- 18 happened, do you remember where you were? I remember 5
j 19 where I was. I was sitting in front of the television i 20 sat watching soap operas like women do in the afternoon l t 21 and putting a nine-month old baby to sleep in my arms in a
- a rocking chair, and the news flashed in front of me, and 22 23 I saw mothers, pregnant women and badies, and I saw gas 24 lines and I saw panic and fear.
25 I have been organizing against Shoreham already
17,252 Sim 11-22 for over a year, and there the reality I have feared was right in front of me and I had a child in my arms, and i 2 l no other form of transportation except my bicyle. 3 So it was quite clear to me that if I had been at Three Mile Island in a rocking chair with that child I would have had nowhere to go and nobody to go with. 6 And within a few days the people of West Germany had created banners that said we all live in Harrisburg. And the people of Long Island un-lerstood those banners. The 40 people who had been arrested trying to climb the walls of Shoreham in 1978 were accompanied six weeks after the accident at Three Mile Island by 18,000 people, 17,000 good citizens on the beach in the pouring (m) 14 rain, as we had been the year before in the pouring rain, and 600 people storming the walls of Shoreham again in the 15 pouring rain. 16 end Sim jsue fols j7 2
= 18 E
j 19 i 20 f i
, 21 ~,
22 23 24 25
17,253 EVENING
,#12-1-SueW 1 We have had 98 percent of our demonstrations in the O 2 pouring rain. It has come to be a joke among us, but it's 3 a symbol of our commitment, that we are not just out there on 4 beautiful May Day's when we can remember our 60s hippie origins.
5 We are out there in the pouring rain, year af ter year af ter 6 year, for most of our adult lives, those of us who are in our 7 30s. 8 This Spring, the accident at Chernobyl happened, 9 and the people of Germany and the people of Europe, who had 10 created the banners for us to be in sympathy with the tragedy 11 that had happened in America, became the victims of what 12 Helen Caldercart has called the global gas oven. ,n () _ 13 ; The only response that I could have was to make the i 14 l banner that is on the wall behind me: We all live in Chernoby. 15 lh
, I brought that here to the Supervisor's Meeting a couple of I
16 ! months ago where they decided to pull out of LILCO's evacuation 17 plan. And, some teenagers were here as part of a civic lesson, 18 and they said to me, "What does that mean?" And, I said to 19 them, "It means that no matter where you are on the face of the 20 earth, you are in Chernobyl today because that accident has 21 affected your lives. It has affected all of us." 22 And, what I want to say to you is that the people 23 of Long Island know this in our bones; we fear Shoreham in our 24 bones; we fear nuclear power in our bones, in the bones where ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 the radiation would lodge itself, where the cesium 137 and the
I 1 17,254 l
#12-2-SueW j other things, in' the bones , in.our organs, in our thyroids, we l
[w LJ g feel that fear. But, from those bones we hear a whisper that 2 3 is very persistent. And that whisper is that.we will survive, d 4 we will survive. It's an ancient whisper. I ! r And, what I need for you to know is that there are 6 two kinds of power. There is power over people, which the 7 federal government has tried to have here. They have tried 8, to have power over us. LILCO has tried to have power over 9 us. The old Suffolk County Legislature, which we have'long 10 since thrown out, which was pro-Shoreham back in 1978, tried 11 to have power over us. i 12 But, there is another kind of power which perhaps 1 () 13 y u understand, which is power with, the power that comes ja from people working with each. And, the people of Long Island l have learned the power of working with each other. It's a 15 , 16 synergetic power, and it's much more powerful than any kind 37 ! of power that the federal government can try to impose on I 18 . us. l . 19 l And, that's why this is a very unusual week, i !
- i 20 l because the representatives of the most powerful government l
in the world are here today, coming up against teachers and l 21 i 22 students and mothers and truck drivers and union organizers 23 and people who might be hill-billies and newspaper editors. 24 And, we are very unsophisticated people. Not all of us have Sso.r.: n. pore.rs, inc. 25 spoken as articulately as we might have liked to. Maybe the
17,255 2-3-SueW I things that we have said have seemed very simple and ordinary 2 and even characteristically American as apple pie. But, we 3 have a tremendous amount'of power. 4 And, no matter what the government tries to do to
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5 us, I know in my bones that that plant will never cpen. And, 6 if you do approve the evacuation plan, and if we do have to 7 go the Supreme Court, and if the Supreme Court with the current 8 new person in charge of it, goes against us, too, it will still 9 never open. We had hundreds of people climbing the gates 10 before. If we have to, we will have hundreds and hundreds of i II l people climbing the gates again, because we are determined. 12 We have lived here. You have not lived here. We
, a
( ' 13 have fallen in love and married and borne children into the 14 i world and gotten to know our neighbors. And gotten to know 15 our neighbors in the fight against Shoreham. And, we are 16 h something very, very special. We are a community, and we are 4 17 united. 18 So, please think about that, because it's very 19 important to you because now, whether you like it or not you 20 are part of our community. 21 Thank you. 22 (Applause.) 23 FROM THE FLOOR: I was on the beach with her that 24 day. I protest this meeting and everything it represents. I l -- oderat Reporters, Inc. 25 think that you people are charged with a very, very definite
i
'17,256 , #12-4 SueW responsibility. And that is not only listening but to tell 1 D 2 us something. You have sat there, all of you, silently listen-3 ing to people plead for their lives. That is what is at stake ;
4 here. 5 I meant to just sit here and listen. But, that 6 young lady brought something to ny mind. I am an old man; I. ~ 7 was there with my brother. I climbed the fences with those 8 People. I stood in the pouring rain. 9 (Applause.) 10 FROM THE FLOOR: And, I have no radical. background 11 whatsoever. I am, too, one hundred percent American. And, i 12 you are charged with that responsibility tonight, all of you. 13 (Applause . ) [ 14 JUDGE MARGULIES: Since you made a statement, do 15 you wish to identify yourself?
< 16 MR. LEEDS: Yes, I certainly will. My name is i
17 ! Raymond Leeds. 18 JUDGE MARGULIES: Thank you. Rachael Walsh. 4 19 ! LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 20 OF i 21 RACHAEL WALSH l 22 MS. WALSH: Good evening. When I think about what 23 it would be like if the nuclear plant was open, and there was l 24 - an accident, I wonder which way would I rather die, by nuclear Aederal Reporters, Inc. 25 and radioactivity or being in the crush'of people trying to
l 17.257 7_#12-5-SueW 1 leave the Island that is inescapable. l 1
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2 That is all I have to say. 3 ( Applause . ) 4 JUDGE MARGULIES: Leigh Johnson. 5; LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6 OF 7 LEIGH JOHNSON 8 MS. JOHNSON: Good evening, gentlemen. My name 9 is Leigh Johnson. I am from Huntington, Long Island. That's 10 a town that straddles the border between Nassau and Suffolk I 11 l Counties. My children go to school in Suffolk County; my 12 husband works in Nassau County. ,m i 13 On December 15th, 1983 I testified before Governor 14 l Mario Cuomo at Suffolk Community College. At that tire, the 15 ! thrust of my testimony was to address the contradictions and i 16 !j inconsistencies that had been given in presentation to the 17 l Marburger Commission and to the Suffolk County Legislature by 18 some members of the pro-nuclear scientific community, dealing 19 mainly with elements of risk and the feasibility of an evacua-20 tion plan for our over-populated Island of urban, suburban, 21 rural and resort communities. 22 One of the most arrogant statements was from an i 23j employee'of Brookhaven National Lab. He stated that we could 24 learn to live with the fear of a nuclear accident just as he ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 learned to live with the fear of tornadoes in the mid-west
~17,258
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a#12-6-SueW I where he was reared. He said that we could learn to listen ( 2 for the sirens, shelter ourselves in basements and emerge to 3 resume normal living. 4 What tornado contaminates the farms, the horse l 5 breeding and training in this state, and the vineyards? Are 6 we expected to harvest our contaminated vegetables, eat our 7 contaminated Long Island duckling and drink to our health with 8 Long Island wines grown from contaminated grapes? 9 The 10-mile evacuation zone is an arbitrary area, 10 a perfect. circle, dreamed up by the proponents of an industry 11 they then are given the power to regulate. We are not talking 12 about safety here -- we are talking acceptable numbers of 1 13 deaths. Acceptable to whom? 14 How can an arbitrary safe level of contanination j 15 be permitted when even immune systems' susceptibility of ! 16 certain segments of the population have never been considered?. 17 ' To take this basic criteria one more step, I quote 1 18 now from an article in the publication, "Today's Health," June 19 1984, Page 9: "The neutron radiation associated with nuclear 20 power plants does more damage to living tissue in little doses 1 21 than~in larger." The author is not discussing lethal doses 22 here. I 23 "The effect is quite unexpected," says biologist I j 24 Colan Hill at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois. "It
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25 goes against our scientific assumptions." i
17,259 t#12-7-SueW I The article continues further on, " Hill is concerned I ) 2 about nuclear power plant workers who are continually exposed 3 to low levels of neutron radiation. Standard policy is to 4 reassure them so long as they avoid high exposure." 5 To conclude the article, " Current standards are 6 based on the assumption that neutron radiation works the same 7 way other radiation does," said Hill. "Since that's not the 8 case, those standards should be examined." 9 I have seen nothing changed in the safety standards 10 for workers or evacuation criteria as a result of this once 11 , new, now two-year old,information. Add the prior behavior 12 of LILCO in delaying for several hours notification of an oil (_) 13 leak to health and safety officials, including a local fire 14 department, and you can see why we shall always expect the 15 worst case scenario and act accordingly. 16 The reality argument here is fear, disgust and first-0 17 hand knowledge of gridlock traffic situations from many causes. 18 You can glimpse our outrage at an attempt to impose unnecessary 19 risks from an outside source onto our family. 20 We are not talking Soviet technology here. We are 21 talking human error, the possibility of 0-ring failure, a run-22 away technology and an erosion of democratic principles. 23 I presume you have heard of Edith, exit drills 24 in the home. Our family is discussing exit drills from Long ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 Island. We are not reassured by our research.
17,260
#12-8-SueWj Even if we were notified in time to escape a plume 2 f contamination and could beat the exodus, what about reentry?
3 What if my children were not in school but unreachable by 4 phone? What if my husband was on jury duty in Riverhead, as 5 he will be next week? The paper evacuation plan has no credibility. 6l ' 7 I repeat: The paper evacuation plan has no 8j credibility. 9 (Applause.) 10 MS. JOHNSON: I have acted as spokesperson for ij ; hundreds of friends and neighbors and local civic organiza-12 l tions. We are all in total agreement on this issue. i n
) 13 l Thank you.
ja (Applause.) 15 l JUDGE MARGULIES: Bernadette O'Brien. 16 l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i 37 OF jg BERNADETTE O'BRIEN 19 ' MS. O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, thank you for the 20 pportunity of speaking at this hearing. I think you are 21 hearing the message of everyone here tonight. And I would 22 like to add my voice.to theirs. 23 I am strongly opposed to the licensing of Shoreham 24 by the NRC. This facility, operating as a nuclear power oderal Reporters, Inc. 25 plant, on a narrow, water-locked land would present a disastrous
17,261 (12-9-SueW j hazard to life and limb and property. The licensing of such 7 2 a facility over the objections of so many citizens of Long 3 Island would, in my opinion, present a massive potential 4 danger to every man, woman and child on Long Island and a 5 greater area for generations to come. 6 Why do I feel this way? The size of this reactor, 7 which I read years ago I believe, was 832 megawatts. I under-8 stand it was too large and no one else wanted it. But, LILCO 9 bought it. The shoddy workmanship, as reported in our news-10 Papers, the untrained personnel upon whom our lives would i ij l depend. The age of this plant already. Where it is located i 12 j allows for no safe escape for the citizenry if a tragedy
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i ( 13 ! should come. i 14 It never should have been built. The waste i 15
! disposal we could spend all night on. I wonder, will the i
16 sites be designated by 1995? Where, in God's name, how many 17 thousands of feet down are you going to put the waste from 18 all of the nuclear power plants in this country? Will ours 19
! join theirs?
20 We are contaminating our planet. Other sources of 21 energy -- wind, solar, treated waste disposal, unknown sources 22 ; at this time. Our technology is marvelous. Let's use it to 23 find other ways. 24 Conservation of energy by the citizens. We have 8v.omi nwonm. inc. 25 done it before. In the western world, we are one-third of the
17,262 2-10-SueW I world's population and we use two-thirds of the world's 2 energy. 3 Shoreham should be closed down, deactivated and 4 decontaminated for unfortunately what has already been done. 5 And I think that will even take a little while. And, I don't 6 know if plans are in phase for that yet, but I suggest, 7 gentlemen, that your next research would be to see how 8 Shoreham can be closed down safely and soon. 9 (Applause.) , 10 fL9 O'BRIEN: I depend -- and so do my neighbors and II . friends -- upon you, the NRC Board, to act wisely and to use 12 your good judgment. Our lives are in your hands. Deny this [ \ k) ( 13 application by LILCO to operate Shoreham. Id Too late, will it be, when some tragedy happens; 15 too late to say it never should have opened; too late to save 16 ' those killed or maimed and ill with radiation sickness, and I7, their children and the land desolate. I 18 I trust, and I depend, and I pray for you, as you I9 deliberate. And, I have a feeling -- it's a strong one -- 20 that you are going to come up with the right decision. Deny 21 this application and close Shoreham. 22 Thank you. 23 l; (Applause.) i l 24 JUDGE MARGULIES: Dennis Tragger. l emi nnutm. inc. . 25 l l 1 l l 1
17,263 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT e#12-11-SueW1 2 OF 3 DENNIS TRAGGER 4 MR. TRAGGER: My name is Dennis Tragger. I am a 5 member of the Long Island Coalition for Safe Living. I'm also 6 a member of the Civic Association and the East End Civic 7 Association of Massapequa. And, I think I speak for -- 8 well, thousands of people that I come across in my trying 9 to educate people. 10 I have listened to a lot of people today. I 11 stopped in for lunch, but here I am now. I finally got.to 12 speak here. I heard a. gentleman say that in 25 years there 13 has been no serious accident, and yet there has been minor 14 accidents and almost serious accidents. And, whether it's one 15 in a billion, the chance of a major meltdown, or 50/50, it 16 doesn't matter to me because that chance is too great for me 17 ! and my family. 18 And, I have a daughter who is going to be one in 19 October. What I wanted to say is there are fundamental flaws. 20 here, especially because this is an island and being an island 21 I know many police officers and fire fighters and professionals 22 who really care and would dedicate themselves to an emergency 23 situation, but not one of them would go out there and actually
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24 go against the traffic and get involved. (} L ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 And, there is no LILCO' employee who for 15, 20, 25,
17,264 th2-12-SueW 1 whatever it is, per hour will go out there and risk their O 2 life and health and family and go out there. I think there 3 will be robbery, murder, no law enforcement. I think it's 4 horrendous. 5 This is an island here, gentlemen. Please, have 6 a little mercy on the people here. You may not live here, 7 but -- the economical point here of this is that -- I happen 8 to read the " Wall Street Journal" on a regular basis, and 9 there was a little article with the hidden cost of energy 10 j telling us that the federal government gives like 17 billion 11 l dollars a year to subsidize nuclear energy and we derive 17 12 l billion dollars? I may be off a half a billion dollars in (- (_) 13 my figures, but this is the hidden cost of energy in the I4 " Wall Street Journal." 1 15 And, I know Mr. Reagan -- President Reagan, which 1 16 I voted for him because I thought he's a great leader and he i l 7' l' has done a lot of great things for the country, and I'm as i 18 ! patriotic here as everybody in this room, including you 19 : gentlemen. He has done'a lot of good things. l 20 And he has just recently appointed -- I could be 21 incorrect -- two admirals to the Commission, the Nuclear ) 22 Regulatory Commission. And, of course, Chairman Zech, who 23 was quoted as saying in an interview after he was appointed 24 with the " Wall Street Journal" in politics and policies. And ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 he said: If the boys are doing a good job, then the management I
17,265 12-13-SueW I of these nuclear plants -- I mean, we are talking about 2 Catacasinos -- if the boys are doing a good job he is going 3 to put them in the driver's seat and let them drive. 4 Well, the bus drivers say they are not going to 5 cooperate. This local and state government won't cooperate. 6 There is a flawed plan out there and Zech is going to let -- 7 and you are telling us this is a feasible plan and Zech is 8 going to let these guys drive? 9 I'm angry. This is an absurd thing here, okay. 10 This is an island. I think you guys should let the ball 11 drop here and say: Long Island, you are on an island. All 12 right. We will go out and let -- you know, when you have a , i C) 13 meeting out there in Iowa and there is 15 people there who 14 maybe haven't talked wie the farm five miles away, that's 15 l a different story. You guys would probably laugh at them. 16 l i To me, you are messenger boys, scouts. You are 17 ! taking orders from Zech. Okay. And Zech takes his orders, 18 too. He takes them from the President. And, we know what is 19 going on. New Yorkers are not stupid here. 20 (Applause.) 21 MR. TRAGGER: Well, you bring a message back to 22 Washington with you. We don't want it. And the people will 23 be over that gate. Drop the ball here. Let it go. 24 If you are judges, be objective. And, you have Aederal Reporters, fr.c. 25 the facts here. If you believe in democracy, your children --
t 17,266 2-14-SueW 1 and there is a life after this, too. You have a conscience, 2 you have a soul. But, boy, you know where you are going if 3 you can turn your backs on mankind. ; 4 That's all I have to say. 5 (Applause.) ; i 6 JUDGE MARGULIES: Linda Tragger. 7 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8 OF 9 LINDA TRAGGER 10 MS. TRAGGER: I am Linda Tragger. I would like to 11 thank you for the opportunity of speaking. I first have some-12 thing to read from Assemblyperson Phillip Healey. () 13 "Please be advised that I do not advocate the 14 opening of Shoreham. A recent exercise which was called an i evacuation plan did not demonstrate the ability to evacuate 15 16 the endangered population. The plan has had a series of i 17 incidents which causes concerns to the residents in the 18 area. I, therefore, urge the denial of any permit to operate 19 the Shoreham plant. Sincerely yours, Phillip B. Healey, 20 Assemblyman, 12th Assembly District." 21 Okay. I am very nervous, and I'm a lay person, and 22 I'm not expert in any technological science as you are. But, 23 I can -- I have my own built-in -- what's the word, my own ('} 24 (Lederal Reporters, Inc. built-in perceptions. And, I'm very accurate. And, usually 25 what I see and what I feel will happen. And, I feel there o
17,267
#12-15-SueWI will be a very serious accident very soon at a major power 9 2 station in the United States. And I've been like this -- I've 3 had feelings like this, and I've been very accurate, since 4 I could walk. And I'm not wrong.
5 Plutonium was found last summer in New York's water I 6 supply, and Mayor Koch talked about investigating a Bernard 7 Getz sympathizer who threatened to pollute or to terrorize us 8l by polluting the water with plutonium. I have talked to quite 1 9 a few people -- I talk a lot. I've talked to quite a few 10 people, and one person I talked to -- who, I can't mention Il the name -- has worked at the Indian Point plant and has said 12 f there has been a serious accident there which went unannounced V 13 lI to the public a few years ago. la I would seriously think that there is a correlation 15 ! between that and the plutonium found in New York's water l 16 I supply last year. 17 I am a court reporter. I have been a reporter for 18 11 years. I have taken some matters for ConEdison with 19 respect to Indian Point. Three constructors of the plant 20 was one session. The other were two doctors. One worked 21 with the Ministry of Health, and another very prominent 22 doctor who spoke against Indian Point. And, their 23 examination was with respect to the health related facilities, 24 to help the medical industry and how they would respond in ti, ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 case of an accident with such a massive population as New York
l 17,268
..gJ12-16-SueW1 City and its surrounding areas. And, they felt -- and they U 2 emphatically stated on the record that there is no way that 3 such a -- in case of an accident such a massive population such 4 as in New York and the surroun' ding areas could ever be treated.
I 5j You could never rely on any of the health' care workers to N 6y risk their families, their lives. i 7 I have a few other things. I also took an NRC 8i closed interview.
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It was closed to the media. It was a-9 few years ago, and I was devastated by it. I can't~-- I can't'
. 10 speak about anything except that what I took, it was an II interview with a person who had talked to many technicians and 12! many of the workers at Shoreham during its construction.
I 13 The things that I heard and that I took down -- 14 and this was closed and no one else was privy to this except 15 yourselves -- were devastating to'me. There were things 16 L brought out-about people, corporations, businesses, ripping 17 : out good -- and, I know technicians that worked -- did valve 18 work at Shoreham, and they said their good work would be ! 19 ripped out for other work to be replaced, inferior work. 20 One example was a pipe that' went -- a pipe that 21 was supposed - . it was bolted and on the other side there was 22 no pipe. This was a'very serious thing. This was supposed 23 to relieve pressure. Instead, it was capped. It was just 24 Aederal Report capped. ers, Inc. 25 Among the things that were brought out was over
17,269
#12-17-SueWl the ones brought in from down south, worked over 13 hours, 9 2 drugs, alcohol, abuse. Everything from the inferior steel 3 purchased to build the plant. Everything was brought up.
4 Fudged data, that's one thing. Fudged data. 5 Let's see, what else. It's very hard for me, 6 because I'm nervous now and I didn't prepare anything. I've 7 been very busy working. Let's see, if you could bear with me. 8 You have been very patient tonight. 9 Okay. There were rumors that the mob had a hand 10 in the construction of the plant. Let's see, there are many 11 things, many things. And, this is Long Island and I come -- 12 I hate to say the mob, because I'm an Italian American, (_/ 13 you know. But, I hear friends of a friend and people talking 14 and I talk to a lot of people, and I hear them say: Oh, you 15 know what Sally says? It's only a matter of time before that 16 plant goes on line. 17 ! And, he's laughing, drinking a beer, smoking a 18 cigarette. That's some of the mentality. That's just some 19 of the mentality. 20 The majority of people that I spoke to did not 21 even know -- I guess they didn't take the time to maybe read l l 22 the papers, but they'didn't know that tonight the NRC was 23 meeting to hear them. My neighbors didn't know about it. l 24 And, over three-quarters of the people, I can safely say I ederal Reporters, Inc. 25 will swear on a stack of Bibles, think that this plant will not
17,270
#12-18-SueW j open. They say: Oh, this plant won't open. They will 2
never open that plant. 3 But, I have certain reservations about that. And 4 I have certain feelings that this is just going through 5 the motions, and that you already have you Orders and your 6 Plans and everything. I don't want to think that way, because 7 I'm thinking more and more that the process, the democratic 8 pr cess, is being -- it's being evaporated. 9 And, I feel very strongly -- before last year, 10 before the turnout of the politicians, before they were 11 forced to turn out by the will of the people, or the majority 12 f the people, or the consensus of the sentiment, that the ( ) 13 Republican party seems.to be a nuclear party. And, it seems ja to me that Ronald Reagan is the one giving all the orders and 15 l all the push. 16 And, maybe you don't want to do this but you have j7 to go through this. And that you really have to follow orders. 18 And, I don't want to think that way. I want to think that 19 this is America, and this is not Russia, and it's not Nazi 20 Germany. 21 And, I can't -- 22 (Applause.) 23 MS. TRAGGER: And, I can't help having those 24 feelings. My baby will be a year next month, and it's great. Aoderal Reporters, Inc. 25 Being a mother is great. I don't know if you have children. I l l
17,271
#12-19-SueW j don't think you have grandchildren yet, you are too young
- But, I read the Bible. I believe in God. I say my prayers 2
every night that this plant does not go on line. And, I kid ' 3 you not, I say my prayers every single night...And, there is a 4 hasic' tenent in every religion that I have read about or 5 studied that whatever bad you do to someone can come back on y u. And, I would hate to think of that coming back on you 7 and your families, your children and your children's children. 8
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Please, let me feel like I'm not talking to' clones. 9 I want to feel that you are human, and that you are for real. 10 33 Because I think of Washington, and I think of the NRC and the 12 Department of Energy. I think of the Department of Energy as o ,, a bunch of beases, as devils. I really do. 14 And, Zech, I see him as a big beast, because there 15 are many -- I've always -- like I said, I believe in the Bible. < 16 Everyone has -- by the way, this is a violation of the Sabbeth, g having a meeting tonight on Friday. I don't know if it is -- (Applause.) 18 39 MS. TRAGGER: It is a violation of the Sabbeth, and many feel that to work on a Saturday you are violating the 20 g Sabbeth. And, that's a mark of the beast. Don't think I'm crazy. This is something that -- 23 it's food for thought, and I'm just -- this is just my 24 feelings, and I want to express them in my own way, you know, Roderal Reporters. Inc. 25 whether it be part slang.
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#12-20-SueW y My baby is very important to me. My baby is my 2 life and my world. I love her very much, and I'do not want 3 to see this plant go on line. And, I do not want to see 4 politicians buying and selling human beings, or my government 5 dealing in humanity as a commodity.
6 There has to be a better way. My husband went to 7 the U.N. He was speaking to a few very brilliant people 8 there, scientists. And, one of them told him they have a 9 patent. The government has been sitting on a patent for 10 many years. It has to do with -- oh, I don't know if it's 11 geothermal. It's some kind of patent, where all that would 12 be required in the future is a little box the size of a t.v.
) 13 set in back of everyone's house. You would power your whole 14 house that way.
15 There were also allegations he heard that one 16 brilliant scientist war murdered by the government. He was 17 taken out to the desert and shot. Now, the specifics of that 18 I can't give you, but this is what he was told. If you are j9 interested, I will write you in a letter and I will get the 20 specifics of who he spoke to and everything. 21 I mean, these things are crazy stories. We hear 22 them everyday. There are a lot of crazy people out there. 23 It's a sick world. l 24 I was watching cablevision recently about the CRACK l Aederal fieporters, Inc. 25 problem now. And, a person by the name of Dick Gregory was
17,273 i .'#12-21-SueW1 speaking. And, I remember in the 60s seeing him. He was'a T
.2 figure head, you know, with the hippie movement and all that.
3 And he was speaking to a group of blacks in Harlem, 4 and he said the government can stop this drug problem. They 5 can put a stop to it. They have satellites that can read the 6 newspaper, print off a newspaper. They know where it's being 7 harvested, when it's being transported. They know everything; 8 chey see it; they know, just as they saw mass graves at
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9 Chernobyl, more than they care to admit. j 10 I just want to feel that I'm speakit.g to three 11 reasonable human beings and that I'm not talking to machines. i end #12 12 () 13 i 14 15 16 9 17 18 19 20 21 22 - s 23 24 at Reporters, Inc. 25 l l
.Walsh/Sim 13- 1 17 t 274 v- 1 7 am very upset about this, and I will do e 2 anything in my power to bring legal _ suit if.me, my daughter O 3 or anyose in my family is' hurt as a direct or indirect 4 j result of this, i
5 lil Thank you., 6' ! JUDGE MARGULIES: Dave Crow. 7 (No response.) i 8! Thorton Willette. i l 9l LIMITED. APPEARANCE STATEMENT I 10 OF 11 THORNTON WILLETTE i 12 MR. WILLETTE: My name is Thorton Willette. I ) 13 am President of the Kane Street Block Association. I was
.O 14 one of.the founders of the Block' Association 12 years it 15 / cgo, and I have done that or been an officer of that 16 association for 12 years because I am a believer that small 3 -
l 17 organizations close to the people are important. They. Ia 18 have perceptions which are perhaps not always present.at t j 19 a distance from where people live and work.
' 20 Kane Street is four blocks long and it is t
3 mixture of residential and industrial uses. 21 It is located
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22 in Brooklyn and ends in Brooklyn Channel opposite Governor's Island. 4 23 Because'I have been aware, as everyone has, i 24 of the problems of Shoreham for many years, two years ago (, 25- I testified before the Public Se.Tvice Commission, and at l y - - g a- q --r -. -. - - -. , - - , , .-,.,e.g, - ..w - , - . . ..-,--,,-.n g-,
17,275 Walsh/Sim 13-21 that time'there was a proposal that a public advocate be a 2 appointed, and I testified in favor of that because of the O, 3 various allegations about the fiscal mismanagement and lack 4 .of safety with regard to the plant. 5 I recommended that. Richard Kessel be appointed i 6 to that job, and since then he has been appointed and has l 7 made various proncancements.in the press from time to time 8 in the ensuing years. 9 However, it has been observation that with the 10 exception of what I would call'a bad work by unions working
! ij at the' plant, it is my perception that Richard Kessel has 12 not come up any scientific demonstration that there is 13 anything wrong with Shoreham today. He hasn't come up with 14 any demonstratsion of standards, safety standards being J
15 broken. He has not come up with any demonstration of in
' excessive risk, and no demonstration of a management ; 37 conspiracy and no remaining question of financial management- ; 18 of that plant at.all.
8 J j 19 I am also impressed with what LILCO has done a
!a in bringing in Dr. Catacaccinos. I am impressed with the 20 i
f 3 reductions in staff that he has implemented. 21 I I In short, the way it appears to me after 22 Richard Kessel has had two years to work on this, what 23 1 has been demonstrated is that tax-free bonds are cheaper 24 lll -25 than taxed bonds.
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17,276 Walsh/Sim 13-31 However, I think that probably any fourth grade j L 2- students could have told you that without the assistance g 3 of Richard Kessel. 4- So what I guess the way I see it right now is ! 5 if this is the way it is going to go,'then I think to be 6 fair the State of New York should make all of.the Con-Edison 7 bonds tax free as well on a utilty. And afrer Con-Edison i 8 maybe the Niagara Mohawk bonds, too, and then how about all i. 9 the other business bonds, should they be made tax. free?. 10 Maybe.we should just stop having any taxes 11 at all. Sometimes I am tempted to.think that maybe after j 12 we do that, then since you gentlemen won't be being paid j 13' any salaries and maybe'we won't be having any hearings and i 14 I won't have to come out here from-Brooklyn as I have done i l 15 on occasion before. j 16 But on a more serious note, I look forward to
! s h 17 seeing street lights to guide me and to keep me safe.on 2
i ; 18 my way home tonight. I look forward to having my. refrigerator 3 j 19 .w orking,.and I am sure others and I look forward to having i 20 ur vacuum cleaners working, the machinery that is in the t
! 21- Plants and factories where we work, our computers and-even f
22 our telephones are depending upon this. + 23 So as far as I can ~ tell, I am I believe as close l ! 24 to people and aware of people's personal feelings, and I 5 25 don't see any scientific resaon~for not opening this plant. 1
-,, ....._ ___ _. - , , , . - ,, .- _., , i_, _ _, , , _ _ . . ,m., , _ , _ . . . , _ _ _ _ _ , . _ _ , , , , , . , _ _ _ _ _ _ _ , _ _ ,
_ _ _ . . . - - - _--- -. . -- . . . - ~ . - - . - . l l 17,277 Nalsh/Sim.13-4' It is safer, a lot safer than smoking cigarettes 2
~. 7 and many, many other hazards. So I hope you gentlemen will ;. 3 pursue a course of santity of what is iny the real interests i
' #! of all people and open Shoreham now. (Disturbances from the audience. ) , i
- i !
JUDGE MARGULIES: We are going to take two more ! I 7 fl witnesses for this session. We have heard approximately h i d 8 i 90 witnesses today. We have been here since 9:30. We have e i 9 3 certainly heard all of your viewpoints and we have given-j 10 you a full ar.d fair hearing today. I II We will take two more witnesses. 12 Nicole Clorey. 13 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 34 OF i ! i 15 l1 i NICOLE CLOREY 16 MS. CLOREY: Good evening. ; 17 l All three of you look a bit harried, and I can ) [ 18 understand that, and-I think if I.were in your~ position i d - 19 I would be a bit harried also, I i } l 20 I think, too, if I were in your position at this i d 4
. 21 point in time I would be jumping up and down saying, My God,
!' ~
22 I am sorry for ever having the~ thoughts of. opening this. 23 place in the first place because obviously the general ! 24 consensus today is that the people of Long' Island do not 25 want Shoreham to open, and will not permit this act to ! 1 I I
)
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, , , , . , + - , , ,,-----..~...-,n, ,y7 .., ,m. , y ,w , ,.. o. s , nm,---.--
17,278 Walsh/Sim 13-51 nappen. 2 I have been sitting here since this afternoon, 9* 3 and all night long I have been growing increasingly afraid. 4 I have been asking myself why, and I am saying am I afraid 5 of nuclear fallout, and I say no. I can't even cc prehend 6 what it would be like. I have no idea, and therefore I 7 cannot be afraid. 8 Am I afraid of dying on the Long Island Expressway 9 trying to get the hell out of this place? I say no, death 10 is inevitable, and I am not afraid ci it. 11 What I am afraid of is that you three gentlemen 12 are going to go home and completely disregard what minimally 13 80 people have said to you today, and that is we de not
/~ 'Y 14 want Shoreham to open. We do not want it here, wa are 15 afraid cf it, we are afraid of things we cannt: ::n:rol, and 16 it has been proven in other places that we cannot control a
h 17 these things. e
- 18 I am really afraid because it drives me bananas i
j 19 to think that 75 percent of the people who live her could i E 20 say no, and it is up to the three of you who don't eve'n a 21 live here, and you three could say yes, and that drives me 2 3 22 crazy. 23 ( Applau'se . ) 24 I am young. I am a student, and I am a student (\ \
) 25 at Nassau Community College. I work at the New York Public j
17,279 1 Interest Group, and I go out of my way every day to.try to Walsh/Sim 13-6 i as 2 promote a little good social change in this State and in _] 3 this country. 4 And if what has been said to you today has
?
5 l, absolutely no meaning at all, wh'at can I do? My 19 years 4 6h have been for naught and why bother. 7 jj Please consider carefully what you have heard ii ! ai today. I know you have listened, but I really hope that 9i you have heard what we had to say. i
, 10 Thank you.
i 11 (APPl ause.) 12 JUDGE MARGULIES: Milly Rapp. i
- 13 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 14 j OF I
15 MILLI RAPP i 16 MS. RAPP: Good evening, gentlemen. f s 17 I thank you for the opportunity to comment on 4 I
= 18 the LILCO emergency plan.
t W
~
g . 39 My name is Milly Rapp. I life in Port Jefferson. a. 5 20 I am a homeowner, taxpayer and mother of two. 4 a
- d I w uld like to comment on LILCO evacuation plan 21 iE 22 f r People without access to automobiles. First of all, 23 the concept.
24 MPo get a license the NRC must find that LILCO 25 is capable of evacuating all people within 10 miles of the
17,280
?alsh/Sim 13-71 plant, including those who do not have their own means of
. 2 transportation.
3 This includes school children, hospital patients, 4 residents of nursing and adult homes as well as regular 5 people who simply would not have access to an auto chile if 6 an accident were to occur. i 7 For example, people's whose spouses have the 8 family car, persons without cars, persons who take public 9 transportation to work, et cetera. 10 These people are referred to as the transit 11- dependent and for purposes of the LILCO plan and the NRC 12 proceeding are distinguished from those persons who reside 13 in special facilities and school children. 14 Let me state some facts. Under the LILCO plan 15 LILCO proposes to use 333 buses to be driven by LILCO
; 16 employees to evacuate the approximately 11,000 transit i
h 17 dependent people located in the 10-mil'e area around the 2 18 Shoreham plant. 3 j 19 LILCO proposes to obtain these buses from several-a 20 bus companies, but acknowledges-that buses would not d actually be available for LILCO's use until all prior bus
- 21 I
L : 22 company commitments, most frequently to schools, had been ; i
- 23 fulfilled by the companies. ,
? -
24 LILCO assumes,. however, that buses would all be 25 released for LILCO's use once necessary school runs had
. . .= - .- . . . . = . .
i 17,281-Walsh/Sim '13-8 1 completed. The system proposed by LILCO would require the b 2 3 LILCO employee bus drivers after having been notified of 4 a Shoreham accident first to drive to a staging area, and j 5 there are three, one in Patchouge, Riverhead and Port 6 Jefferson, then to drive from there to one of the bus 7 companies to pick up a bus, then to drive the bus back into 8 the 10-mile zone to a transfer point, then to driven along g pre-identified routes around the EPZ picking up evacuees jo and taking them back to the transfer points where the gj evacuees would get onto another bus to take them to a 12 relocation center. 13 Of course, however, under the LILCO plan there 14 is no relocation center to which evacuees could be taken. j 15 LILCO states that using this system with bus routes being 16 driven several times that all the transit dependent 4
; 37 population could be safely evacuated in approximately four to six hours, if that sounds credible.
18 19 This proposal is completely unworkable for manyf > a a reasons. Buses in fact will not be available for LILCO's j 20 , f 21 use because bus owners and/or school officials, parents,
' i: et cetera, would not permit buses normally used to carry . l 22 ,
I their children to be contaminated by being driven through ; 23 the 10-mile zone during a Shoreham accident.
"' #9' ""* * "" " " ^#
- 25 i
17,282 3 bus companies are irrelevant because in a real emergency Nalsh/Sim 13-9 2 no bus owner would permit the contamination of all of his
? ,x ! \ \> vehicles even assuming that schools who normally use his 3
4 buses would release them for use and contamination by LILCO. In addition, if there were a Shcreham accident 5 all such buses would most likely be used :: evacuate the Nassau County schools and other schools cucside the 10-mile z ne to which those buses are ordinarily dedicated. 8 g The time period which LILCO assumes would be necessary to evacuate all of the transit dependent population 10 in the 10-mile zone is totally unrealistic. The amount of time required for the LILCO bus drivers to drive back and forth between the staging areas, the bus cc panies and f, 3 back into the 10-mile zone, as well as the time necessary
%- 14 to drive around and pick up evacuees and then take them to 15 a reception center, given the true traffic conditions on 16 I Long Island as opposed to the unrealistic ones assumed by g 17 LILCO, would take much, much longer than LILCO predicts.
5 Finally, although this concept of evacuating the j 19 l transit dependent was supposedly tested during the February j 20 g 13th exercise, in fact what was evaluated on February 13th 21 2 g 22 was such a small sample that it is meaningless. Thus, only 8, bus yards out of.a total --- 23 , (Applause.) l 24 (^'t
\,_) 25 Thus, only 8 bus yards out of a total of 20 were l
l
17,283
. 1 asked to participate in the exercise. Their so-called falsh/Sim 13-10 f4 2 participation was to have only four buses apiece available 3 for LILCO's use on February 13th.
4 And although according to LILCO's plan, 333 LILCO 5 bus drivers would have to make 337 bus trips over 43 separate 6 routes inside the 10-mile zone, plus an additional 97 7 trips to a reception center during the exercise. FEMA 8 observed only 8 bus drivers each driving one route and g -three of them were unable to pick up their buses or to 10 drive their routes properly or in a timely manner. 11 Thus, the exercise provides no basis to conclude 12 that LILCO proposed method for evacuating the 11,000 13 Pe P l e it predicts would need transportation could ever
) 34 actually work in a real Shoreham emergency.
3 Thank you. 16 (Applause.)
. 37 JUDGE MARGULIES: Thank you for coming here E $ 18 today, and thank you for respecting the rights of all to 5
j 39 speak irrespective of their viewpoints. i 20 Thank you. l d (Applause.) 21 3 E 22 (Wherupon, at 9:10 p.m., the Limited Appearance 23 Session in Mineola,' New York concluded.) 24 f;'t, (_ 2s 1 1 l
CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER O This is ' to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of: NAME OF PROCEEDING: LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1) DOCKET NO.: 50-322-OL-5 (EP Exercise) (ASLBP No. 86-533-01-OL) PLACE: 14INEOLA , NEW YORK - DATE: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission. [
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(sigt)
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(TYPED) MARY C. SIMONS GARRETT .T. WALSH Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTEES, INC. Reporter's Affiliation _. . . - ..}}