ML20154B706
| ML20154B706 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 04/22/1988 |
| From: | Axelrod D LONG ISLAND LIGHTING CO., NEW YORK, STATE OF |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20154B645 | List: |
| References | |
| OL-3, NUDOCS 8805170288 | |
| Download: ML20154B706 (111) | |
Text
-m LILCO, May 2,1988 j
)
l DOCKETED USNRC UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION y
m i P4 23 0FFIci :~ 5t. : ht-Before the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board
~
00CKEi AG A SidVE BRANm In the Matter of )
)
LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY ) Docket No. 50-322-OL-3
) (Emergency Planning)
(Shoreham Nuclear Power Station. ) (Realism /Best Efforts) 3 Unit 1) )
SUPPLEMENT TO LILCO'S RESPONSE TO GOVERNMENTS' APRIL 13 OBJECTION AND I
MOTION IN THE ALTERNATIVE TO COMPEL DISCOVERY Deposition Transcript of David Axelrod Attachment 8 I
! 8805170200 080502 PDR ADOCK 05000322 O PDR
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03 :?:10 W L ~~GS UNITED STATES OF A!! ERICA i NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD
/
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x In the Matter of: :
- Dochet ::o . 50-322-OL-3 LO:G ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY :
- (Emergency Planning)
(Shoreham Nuclear Power -
Station, Unit 1) :
. . . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x DEPOSITION OF DAVID AXELROD Albany, New York Friday, April 22, 1988 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Stenotng Kwrters 444 North Capitol Street Washincton. b.C. 20001 (202) 347 3700 Nationwide Coverage 800 336-6646 l
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.5421 00 01 1 1 GJW/sw 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA i l- ,
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 ---------------------------------X ,
1 I 4G In the Matter of: : Docket No. 50-322-OL-3 ;
i 1
5 LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY : (Emergency Planning -
I 6i (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, : Best Efforts Issue) j 7 Unit 1) :
8 ---------------------------------X 9 DEPOSITION OF DAVID AXELROD Albany, New York !
10 11 Friday, April 22, 1988 i
I 12 Deposition of DAVID AXELROD, called for examination '
13 pursuant to notice, at the State of New York Capitol t
14 t Building, Room 214, at 3:00 p.m., before Garrett J. Walsh, i
15 Jr. , a Notary Public in and for the Commonwealth of Virginia ;
l 16 At Large, when were present on behalf of tne respective I !
17 " parties: I :
I t 18 >< K. DENNIS SISK, Esquire, and DONALD P. IRWIN, Esquire, 1
Hunton & Williams, 707 East Main Street, P. O. Box 1535, !
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20t Richmond, Virginia 23212; on behalf of the Applicant, the i
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Long Island Lighting Company.
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y 1 GJW/sw 1q HERBERT H. BROWN, Esquire, and RONALD R. ROSS, Esquire, ;
1 i 2 'i KirXpatrick & Lockhart, 1800 M Street, N. W., South Lobby, i
- i 3
- l Washington, D. C. 20036; on behalf of the Intervenor, the I 4( County of Suffolk, State of New York.
l 5 RICHARD J. ZAENLEUTER, Esquire, Deputy Special Counsel 6U to the Governor, Capitol, Room 229, Albany, New York 12224; j t I 7 on behalf of the Intervenor, the State of New York. .
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5421 00 03 3 ,
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2 Witness Direct Cross Redirect Rscross 3 David Axelrod 6 104 !,
i 4 i, EXHIBITS l a_
5t FOR IDENTIFICATION 6r Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 1..... 7 7 Curriculum Vita of David Axelrod 8 Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 2..... 10 1 9 Direct Testimony of David Axelrod 10 on Behalf of the State of New York, 11 dated April 13, 1988 12 Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 3..... 37 13 Article 2-B - State and Local Natural ,
14 and Man-Made Disaster Preparedness 15 Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 4..... 51 16 Decision of the NRC, 21 NRC 1587(1985),
i 17 dated June 20,__1985 i 18 i Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 5..... 73 i i
19 L Document with Cover Memo, dated l l
20 t September 1, 1987, from James O. !
21 l Papile to All Recipients of the NYS 22 : Radiological'. Plan f
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4 1 GJW/sw 1 EXHIBITS (Continuing) 2 FOR IDENTIFICATION 3 Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 6..... 82 4 4+ FEMA Post Exercise Assessment for 1 5 Indian Point Nuclear Power Station, 6 August 24 and 25, 1983, dated 7 September 26, 1983 i 8 ********
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PR0CEEDINGS I
2 MR. SISK: Let the record show that this 3 !< deposition is convened on notice by Long Island Lighting
) 4 i, Company, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure I
l 5 i; and the NRC Rules of Practica.
l 6, It is now 3 p.m. The deposition is beginning at i
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7 this time because this is the time the witness has been 8 proffered by the State without consent from LILCo.
9 Mr. Zahnleuter has informed me that the witness 10 will only be able to continue until 5 o' clock this i
11 afternoon. I want to make it clear for the record, as we 12 have in previous correspondence, that LILCO will do its l i
13 utmost to pursue the questioning as quickly and efficiently ;
14 as possible but that we do intend to continue the i
[
15 deposition. If we are unable to do so this evening, we are ,
16 prepared to do so tomorrow or next week at any time the i
17 ' witness hopefully will be available.
J l ;
18 i. MR. CAHNLEUTER: Mr. Sisk, Dr. Axelrod will not I j
0 1
19 II be available tomorrow or next week. So, if the time allowed
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20i, is not sufficient, then I recommend you pursue wnat remedies N
21 " you think are appropriate and wa vill respond appropriately i
I !
22 i! also. <
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s 1 GJW/sw 1f I am sure you will find that Dr. Axelrod will be j 1 1 2i forthright and cooperative, and let's continue. -
3 jf MR. SISK: I will see how far we can get, then.
4h Whereupon, t
5 !,l . DAVID AXELROD- -
I i
60 is called as a witness and, having first been duly sworn, l
- , t 7 was examined and testified as follows: ,
DIRECT EXAMINATION 8
t 9 BY MR. SISK:
'I 10 Q Dr. Axelrod, would you state your name for the i
11 t record, please?
a . l 12 I A I'm David Axelrod. -i 13 Q Are you a sponsor of testimony in this
{ 14 proceeding?
15 A Yes, I am.
I 16 r Q Dr. Axelrod, what is your position with the 17 t State?
l 18 h A I am Commissioner of Health for the State of New i
19h York and also Chairman of the Disaster Preparedness lI 20 t Commission.
.I s
21 L Q How long have you held the position of Chairman t
22 E of the DPC? -
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8 GJW/sw 1 :: A I have held the position as Chairman since the i i i 2 !! Tall of 1982. So, to the best of my recollection that was ,
3 l 3i the date on which I was appointed by Governor Carey. i i Q Do you recall what month in the Fall of '82?
4h 5 A No, I do not. l
- i 6 i! Q And, how long have you been the Commissioner of 3 . ,
7 '
Health?
8 A I have been the Commissioner of Health since ;
4 9 1979, since January of 1979.
10 Q And, who appointed you to that position?
I ,
11 .i A I was appointed by Governor carey. l l 4
12 " MR. SISK: Dr. Axelrod, I will now hand to the ,
l i 13 Reporter and ask that he mark as Exhibit 1 to this l l, 14 deposition a document entitled "David Axelrod, M.D.,
f 15 Commissioner, New York State Department of Health." j 16 (A three-page Curriculum Vitc of David 17 !!
Axelrod is marked as Axelrod Deposition f I l' 18 4 Exhibit Number 1 for identification.)
r
!i 19 ll BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) !
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20i Q Dr. Axelrod, do you recognize that document?
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21 !: A Yes, I do. L L
- }i Can you identify it for me?
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, I 5421 01 04 -i 8 j 8 GJW/sw 1 ;! A It is a Curriculum Vita for myself.
t 2: Q And, is that document true and accurate to the 3 "- best of your knowledge, information and belief?
a i 4d (The witness is looking at the document.) ,
i S9 A There is an omission, which is not of great
{ j 6 i' significance, and that is that I was awarded an Honorary 7 Degree, a Doctor of Science Degree from Union University, -
84 from Union College I guess, in Albany. ,
i 9 I believe my membership as a member of the 10 National Drinking Water Advisory Council has expired, as has ;
11 my membership -- no, that's past membership so those are 12 ' correct, yes. { ;
13 Q And, the document is otherwise correct? l 14 o A I believe so, y I
15 Q Could you describe for me very briefly the !
, t 16 - composition of the Disaster Preparedness Commission? i l
17 0 A The Disaster Preparedness Commission's j' 18 r composition is dictated by Article 2-B of the Executive Law i
19 t and consitts of the major departments of government, which d.
200 are elucidated under Article 2-B.
21 They include, among others, the Department of 1
1 22q Health, the Department of Agriculture and Markets, the i
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) i 1 i 5421 01 05 9 i i i 1 GJW/sw 1 Department of Labor which I think is identified as the 1
2 Industrial Commissioner, the Environmental Conservation, the l f
3 Superintendent of the State Police, the Director of Criminal , ,
P l i-4 4 .- Justice, Energy, Social adrvices. g 5 Q There is a complete list in the statute, is there I
6 not? l t
7 A Yes. It is identified in the Executive Law 2-B.
8 Q And, what are your responsibilities generally as i 9 Chair =an of the DPC?
10 A The responsibilities are to coordinate the State 11 responses to disasters as they occur, to be responsible for ,
I .
i 12 the actions of the State Emergency Management Office, and to ;
i 13 otherwise respond to the requirements such as two meetings l' f
14 per year of the Disaster Preparedness Commission to consider !
I 15 reports. ;
16 The additional responsibilities are to ensura l !
] '
17 that the statutory requirements for the Disaster l i
1
- 18 Preparedness Commission are met, including the oversight for l
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- 19 L the preparation of the various documents that are required. l l
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20 t Dr. Axelrod, you mentioned the State Emergency Q ,
l 21 - Management Office. Is that office subject to your direction ; l
- I 22 li in responding to'an emergency? I i ! !
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5421 01 06 10 1 GJW/sw 1 A Yes, it is.
t And, is it also within your responsibility to I 2 :. Q I
3h ' prepare for and respond to radiological emergencies within d ,
i 4 il the State of New York?
I 5i A Part of the Article 2 B places the responsibility 66 with the Disaster Preparedness Commission to respond to all ,
7 man-made and natural disasters. .
8 MR. SISK: Dr. Axelrod, I will now hand to the 9' Reporter and ask that he mark as Exhibit 2 to this 10* deposition a document which bears the title, "Direct j
('
11h Testimony or David Axelrod on Behalf of the State of New ,
12 - Yogh." It bears a date in the upper right-hand corner of 13- April 13, 1988. I 14 :- (Direct Testimony of David Axelrod, !
t 15 dated April 13, 1988, is marked hs j i
16i',
Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 2 l
17 r for identification.)
181 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) }
, 19i Q Dr. Axelrod, do you recognize that document? t J
20 li A I do.
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a t 21h Q Is tnat the testimony you have filed on behalf of 1
I
- 2L the State of NewWork it, this proceeding?
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1 GJW/sw 1 i; . A Yes, it is. 1 I. i 2 i _Q Is that testimony -- let me ask you this. Did k
3 il you write this testimony?
i 4 li A No, I did not.
3 i
50 Q How was it prepared? !
i .
4 i 6T A It was prepared at my direction by counsel to the ,
7 Governor.
8 Q At this time, let me ask you this. Have you 9 reviewed this testimony recently prior to this deposition?
10 A Yes, I have.
11 Q At this time, do you wish to make any changes to 12 the testimony? .
I 1
13 . (The witness is looking at the document.)
l 14 A No, I do not.
t 15 Q Dr. Axelrod, on Page 2 of this testimony, if you
< i l 16 c will return to that page, near the top there is a statement l'
17 (' which says, "I am authorized and directed by Governor cuomo
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l 18 ( to present testimony to address a hypothetical situation:
d
! 19 what action would New York State take if the NRC were to l s l tl l 20 !! license Shoreham to operate at levels above five percent h
21 P power and there were a serious accident at the plant that L 'i
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22 required offsite emergency response."
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1 GJW/sw 1U Dr. Axelrod, now that you have briefly reviewed I i 2F the testimony, is there anything which you, on behalf of the U l' 3 !! State of New York, wish to add to this testimony to address ,
d
- 4I that hypothetical?
_ i 53 A No, I do not.
l 6 il Q To your knowledge, do you, or does any other 1
7 representative of the State of New York, intend to add to -
8 the content of this testimony in response to that 9- hypothetical?
10 A To the best of my knowledge, the only persons -
11 1 would be identified by counsel and have been identified by l I
a 12 d counsel. f l
13 d Q And, to your knowledge, has anyone been l 14 L identified by you, Dr. Axelrod, as a witness in this 15 e proceeding on this particular issue?
i 16 A You would have to be more specific with rcspect i
17 I to particular issues.
6 !
18 y Q The particular issue of what New York State would ,
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191: do if the NRC were to license Shoreham to operate at full t
201 power and there were a serious accident requiring an 21y emergency response.
j i 22 H MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Is your question limited to New l
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l 2h MR. SISK: Yes.
3 :i THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of any other witness fl i
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5d BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l l' 6n Q Dr. Axelrod, let me return to Page 1 of the 7 testimony. It states, "In my capacity as Chairman of the 8 Disaster Preparedness Commission, I am responsible to l
9 Governor Cuomo for the actions of the New York State 10 Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group and the New York 11 :! State Emergency Management Office."
.' i.
12 ' Dr. Axelrod, does that include the actions of 13 those agencies in response to an actual radiological j 14 .- emergency?
15- A Yes.
16J Q Are you then in command of the State's response i l
17 a to a radiological emergency at the direction of the l l
181; Governor?
l A At the direction of the Governor, I would respond l 19 ll i
20i! to any natural or man-made emergency, as is dictated under 21s the Disaster Preparedness Commission.
I
- l 221! Q Dr. Axelrod, can you describe for me briefly the
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lGJW/sw 1 Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group? What are its 1
2 responsibilities?
l 3 A Its responsibilities are for the determination-of
) 4 the efficacy of the plans for dealing with a radiological l
5 emergency, the development of plans and assuring the ! l 6 response capabilities, as well as developing capabilities .
I 7 that relate to mitigation, as well as hazard prevention ,
8 associated with radiological emergencies.
9 Q Does it also have responsibilities in responding to a radiological emergency? i 10 11 A Yes, it does.
l And, what are those responsibilities? i 12 Q 13 A Those responsibilities vary depending upon the ;
i 14 site-specific requirements for each of the potential l 15 disaster scenarios that have been identified within the I
16 activities of the Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group, 17 Q Are they generally responsible, for example, for 18 dose assessment in the event of a radiological accident at a 19t power plant?
20 A They would play a role, but they may not be i
21: directly responsible. They are involved in the process, but 22L there is a concurrent process in which, depending upon the
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h i 1 5421 01 11 15 l 1 GJW/sw 1 .: site, they would be involved with local officials as well. !
I 2 Q Can you tell me what you mean by the concurrent i is 3h process? What other organizations are you referring to?
I 4i A Local governmental organizations, County l I 5 !! government organizations, local County Health Departments. '
_ i 6" The extent to which the Radiological Emergency i
> i 7 Preparedness Group assumes a primary role is dependent upon 8 the availability of other site-specific activities.
9 Q Do they also coordinate with the federal agencies j
10 such as the Department of Energy?
t 11 A Yes, they do. l N
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l 12 Q Would that include the Department of Energy's ;
i 13 so-called RAP team? l 14 i A In the event that such a response would be i 15 required, yes, they would.
16 Q And, that DOD RAP team is headquartered at I i
17 : Brookhaven National _ Lab, is it not?
' l 18 6 A I can't respond to that. I don't know.
4 19 ri Q Brookhaven National Lab is within Suffolk County, 20 is it not?
21 A Yes.
I 22 ; Q can you describe for me briefly the people at the i
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- i 1 GJW/sw 1 Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group who perform 2i functions in connection with radiological emergencies? !
3 i A There is General Papile, who is the current i
) 4 4 - Director of the Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group.
5h He is the overall coordinator. ,
1 6i There is a Larry Czech, who is involved in the !
i 7 cvaluation of dose assessment. And, a man named Baranski 8 who is also directly involved in the assessment of 9 conditions of plant operations, as well as the delineation 10 of the nature of a radiological emergency.
11 Those would be the three key personnel. There is ,
12 a fourth person who is currently the PIO within the i I
13 Department of Health, the Public Information officer who 14 I coordinates with the Radiological Emergency Preparedness 15 Group. That is a Mr. Peter Slocum.
16 Q Do you know a Mr. Karim, K-a-r-i-m, Rimawr? ;
17 A Yes, I do. i i
18 L Q R-i-m-a-w-r?
i 19 l' A Yes.
u 20i! Q Hnat is his position?
21 E A His position is within the functional 22 b organization of the Department of Health, and he is in s d
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- I 1 GJW/sw 1 ,. charge of the Bureau of Radiological Health.
$ What are his responsibilities?
2 Q !
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3 t' A His responsibilities relate to the overall safety i
I l- 4 if and protective responsibilities that fall to the Department a
i 5 of Health as it relates to radiological devices, X-ray I
6c equipment, any radiation emission equipment that is licensed ,
i 7 within the State of New York, as well as to provide general 8 information, to provide consultation to the Department in
) 9 areas relating to dosage of all forms of radiation, 10 0 Does Mr. Rimawr have any responsibility for ,
i 11 accident or dose assessment in the event of a radiological j i i
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l 12 ' emergency at a nuclear power plant?
13 ' A The full resources of all of the Department are l t l 14 used as the situation may require it. And, Mr. Rimawr, ;
15 Dr. Rimawr, is used by the Department to assist the l 16 J Radiological Emergency preparedness Group in dose assessment I f
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- as the situation may demand. I i
18 L Q In terms of monitoring for dose assessment, what ,
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' i 19 ri type of equipment does Mr. Rimawr have at his disposal?
I a 1
20 A I am not familiar with the specifics of the a
l 21d equipment that Dr. Rimawr has.
Is he.able also to coordinate with the Federal
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5421 01 14 j 18 l 1 GJW/sw 1N Department of Energy, DOE?
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2 ji A He is not directly able to, since his i
3 t; responsibility is primarily within the Department of
) 4 ll Health. That coordination would occur through the 5b Radiological Emergency Preparedness Group rather than 6 if directly through him, although he certainly would play a .
)_
7 role.
8 Q Does he report to a Mr. Davidoff? -
, 9 A His ultimate supervisor is a Dr. Staziek, who is 10 Director of the Environmental Health within the Department.
i 11 e And, the Bureau of Radiological Health falls within the i
12 overall jurisdiction of the Division of Environmental 13 3 Health. 9 l
14 0 Q What is Mr. Davidoff's position?
i 15 A Mr. Davidoff is responsible for the offices that 16f deal with local Health Departments in terms of their 17 '; response and obligations under the Public Health Law.
1 l 18i; Q Does the State Department of Health itself have i 1
19 ll local field offices throughout the State?
'l 201i, A Yes, it does.
j .
211i Q Does it have such offices in Suffolk County?
i 22k A It has a very small office in Suffolk County that i
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I 1 GJW/sw 1 is a subsidiary of the major regional office that is I
2 responsible for Long Island. And, that is in New Rochelle.
3 Q And, where is the office located on Long Island?
) 4 A In Hauppauge.
5 Q Oan you describe for me briefly the 6 responsibi)ities of the New York State Emergency Management j i
)
7 Office in. planning for radiological emergencies at nuclear -
8 power plants?
j 9 A The State Emergency Management Office's 10 responsibilities are generic in nature. And, the I
11 radiological response is a part of its generic response for 12 dealing with all man-made or natural disasters, so that it 13 is integrated into the overall activities of the State I
14 Emergency Management Office. l ,
t 15 It is responsible for the response, the 16 prevention and the mitigation of all disasters.
17 Q Who is in charge of the State Emergency 16 - Management Office?
19 " A Mr. Donald Diveto.
20c Q Is there a local office of the State Emergency 21 Management office on Long Island?
22 L A There'.is the remnants of one. We have had to l
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!1, GJW/sw 1 j! curtail many of our activities in terms of our regional 1
) H offices. And, most of those activities are now carried out 2-(
ti 3q through the main office in Albany.
,i
). 4 I! In those instances where we have had regional 3-5 h.f offices, they consist of one person who is very much under 1.
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6 il the control of the office in Albany. I do not believe
)- *!
7i currently there is someone assigned in the Long Island 8 region. There has been someone in the past.
9 Q Where is that office located?
10 ' A That was also in Hauppauge. ,
,1 i 1
11 ! Q Has the curtailment that you've described been a i '
12 ! State-wide curtailment? l 1
13 !! A Yes, it has.
4 14 !. Q It is not specific to Suffolk County? i 15 A No.
,16 ( Q Can you describe for me briefly your duties and 2
17 1 responsibilities as Cc4missioner of Health as it relates to Is 18 I! radiological emergencies?
F ,
19 A The responsibilities relate to the specific l
20 i! health hazards associated with exposure to various forms of 0
21 [ radiation. My responsibilities relate to identification of ,
!! l 22 h the source of the< potential hazard, any preventive .
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Ii 5421 01 17 , 21 !
1 J i 1 GJW/sw 1s activities, mitigating activities, that might be taken by
) S 2 !! the State, and to make recommendations to either the ;
3 ij Governor or to local constituencies as to what' action would
,, 0l
) be most appropriate to limit the hazards associated with any 4 1l I .
5E form of radiation, i 4 4 li 6 i' Q Does that include what is described in NRC l' ,
1
) l 7 . parlance as a protective action recommendation in the event !
8 of an emergency?
I
- j. 9 A Yes. The Department has a specific 10 responsibility for protective action guidelines.
. I 11 L MR. BROWN: Just a point of clarification, l l ,
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1 12 ' Mr. Sisk. In your question, are you referring to j 2
6 13 3 radiological emergencies as some generic concept or on a !
- I 14 y site-specific basis? .
1 15 Are you -- obviously I'm addressing Shoreham.
i I
I Are you asking questions about the Shoreham plant?
16 it Because l
17 $ I have not interpreted it to be anything related to Shoreham
- l 1 1 18 y a
at this point, just general questions that exclude Shoreham.
d 19 ll MR. SISK: I have asked general questions which ll 2 0 l.! would include ahoreham.
j 21h MR. BROWN: Well, that certainly wasn't D
221l understood by me'/ I don't know if the witness understood it 4
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2c know. l 3 :i MR. SISK: Well, we will be getting to that. Let t-
)l 44 me ask you this, Dr. Axelrod.
l 5 MR. BROWN: Well, if you don't mind, I think it 60 would be very useful. Otherwise, I will be asking for a
)' i 7 clarification repeatedly. If you could make clear whether ;
i 8 Shoreham is included or excluded from each of those kinds of
)
9 questions, I would appreciate that. ;
10 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) ,
i i
11 Q Let me ask you, Dr. Axelrod, as Commissioner of i J 12 ': Health, do you have general responsibility within the State 13 of New York for developing and implementing protective 14 action recommendations in response to a radiological 15 emergency at any and all power plants in the State of New 16 York?
17 " MR. ZAHNLEUTER: And, that includes Shoreham?
18 h THE WITNESS: The --
19 li MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Excuse me. Is that correct, l
20hi that includes Shoreham?
21 MR. SISK: Yes.
22lS I THE h'I.TNESS: The Department would provide for d
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2 , licensed and operating and for which there is an existing j I
l 31 site-specific plan. That does not include Shoreham. j
- BY MR. SISK
- (Continuing) jl 4 tl l
5:1 Q Would it include Shoreham if Shoreham were ,
6> licensed and operating?
l
)
7 A No, it would not, because there is no 8 site-specific plan to which the guidelines could relate.
9 Q Will you tell me what you mean by "site-specific 10 plan?"
4 11 A Each of the operating power plants currently have 12 a site-specific plan which identifies the relationship of .
6 i
13 i all of the parties; that is, local parties, community 14 government, county government, and in some cases multiple 15 county governments, to the State of New York and its various 166 activities.
17 :, The protective guidelines would relate to l
i l
1811 information that would be transmitted through those i
I l 19H individtal entities of local government and how they would i 1 d
20n be applied. The guidelines assume that form of 4
i 210 implementat.'on which would require some form of 22 site-specific activity by each of the entities that would be a
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3" The guidelines clearly would have to relate to a
>- mechanism for implementation. That would be part of the 4 .]
5' plan itself.
6 i' Q As a general matter, how are the guidelines 7 formulated?
8 A They are formulated by the Department by an 9 evaluation of the various land forms, the various crops, a i I'
s 10 whole series of considerations that relate to not only i 11 generic considerations but to site-specific considerations 12 with respect to potential deposition, potential ingestion l
l 13 pathways, all of those characteristics which are dependent l
14 upon information that is site-specific.
l 15 Q In formulating the guidelines generally, do you 16 make reference to federal regulatory requirements?
17 ' A We utilize the federal regulatory requirements i 18 i; in coming up with site-specific actions or site-specific l !
19 f; recommendations that are developed where there is in i
20 existence a plan for dealing with r. radiological emergency.
21 / Q Dr. Axelrod, in order '.or the various plants in
- i .
22 f New York, other than Shoreham, to remain in operation, they n
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government, do they not? i l
3 A Well, they must first be approved by the State. !
) 46 And, they are submitted by virtue of the actions that are l t
5 required by the Disaster Preparedness Commission after their 6 il approval to the Governor, and then eventually to the federal
)
7 government.
8 So that there are a series of steps prior to the 9 submission to the federal government for its approval.
10 Q I understand that. So, my question is, in order 11 ,
for those plants to operate don't they have to have l s
I 12 emergency plans that are approved by the federa.1 government?
i 13 MR. Z AHNLEUTER: I object, because this calls for ,
14 i a legal conclusion. But, you may answer, Dr. Axelrod, if i
15 you know, i
16 r THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Would you repeat the 8 1
17 t question? I lost track. -
I
. I 18 il BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) f 3 !
i 19 ll Q In order for the various nuclear plants in the 1,
20 q State of New York, other than Shoreham, to operate they have 21 i to have emergency plans which are approved by the federal 22 government, do they not' i l i i
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) 'i 1 2 l' position that has been taken by the St' ate of New York is i l 3 i; that they not only must have approval by the federal-L 4 i[ government but they must also have the approval of the i
I 5 il Governor of the State of New York as well as the Disaster
, i 6i Preparedness Commission. ,
) So, while that may be a requirement, it is not an 7 .
8 exclusive requirement for operation. -
9 Q But, it is a requirement?
10 A It is a requirement.
11 ' Q And, in order to obtain federal approval, those {
- l 12 ? plans have to comply with federal requirements, do they not? ,
I i l
13 MR. Z AHNLEUTER: I would like to enter a j 14 r continuing objection on legal conclusion grounds to these i
15 questions.
i ,
I
! MR. SISK: Very well. ,
16 il 17 l- THE WITNESS: The question was?
\
18 6l BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) y 19 ti Q In order for the emergency plans to be approved ?
a 20 h) by the federal government, they have to be in compliance
(
211! with the federal requirements, don't they?
!i 22 E A That's a judgment to be made by the federal l li 9
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interpreted. So, I can't -- I mean, I think you would have 3 li to get someone from the federal government to respond to 4( whether or not what the requirements are.
5L There are a set of requirements that are generic 6i in nature. But, the conclusion that would have to be drawn .
! 7 would be based upon the extent to which any site-specific 8 activity would provide for the implementation of those 9 generic requirements in those cases.
I 10 As I've indicated, there has been a previous :
i.
11 submission throtagh the Governor where there has been a clear ,
i 12 determination that it is approved by the State of New York !
i 13 as well as by the Disaster Preparedness Commission prior to f i
14 its submission.
j 15 Q What criteria does the State of New York use to f i
16 approve emergency plans t'or commercial nuclear power plants?
17 ' A There are a_ series of detailed identifiable 18 characteristics that are included in the State's generic l
1 19 plan that provides for the basic outline uhich would have to j
20 li be followed. And, then each of the site-specific projects o
J is assessed against those regulatory requirements with the 21 ll
- i 22 [ assumption that a' plan can be prepared, which is the first 1
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3 Q What regulatory requirements are you referring
) 4a to, Dr. Axelrod? -
5 A There is a -- I am referring to the federal 6 regulatory requirements which make up the structure upon
) '
7 which the State requirements are identified in terms of the -
8 specifics that would be required at each site for which 9 there is a required plan. ,
i 10 Q So, is it correct to say that the State 11 regulatory requirements for approving emergency plans for l 12 commercial nuclear power plants are structured upon the !
13 federal regulatory requirements?
14 A They include --
I 15 MR. ZARNLEUTER: Excuse me. Are you including l
j 16 Shoreham in your question?
17 " MR. SISK: I'm asking about the general State 18I! requirements for approval of emergency plans. That's all.
l 19 ll MR. ZAENLEUTER: You said "for commercial nuclear 20i! power plants." Does that include Shoreham?
l 21" I think we should arrange some kind of system to 22d distinguish the questions as to whether you mean to include i i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. lNC, j g,3c,3, Nationwide coserase mm
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) l 2 MR. SISK: I'm simply talking about the general 3 requirements that Dr. Axelrod referred to which'the DPC uses j 4n in evaluating emergency plans for nuclear power plants. -
5 MR. BROWN: I would like to raise a point, too.
-6 I don't see how you can expect a non-lawyer, as counsel for ;
) the State stated in his objection, to respond to these kind 7
l l
l 8 of detailed legal questions.
9 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 10 Q Let me ask you this, Dr. Axelrod. Do you know i
- 11. what regulatory requirements the DPC applies in approving or 12' disapproving emergency plans for commercial nuclear power 13' plants in tne State of New York? ?
14 .. A The specifics or the general -- l 15: Q The general structure.
I 16b A The general structure?
17r Q Yes.
181: A The Disaster Preparedness Commission uses the 19i generic requirements for an operating nuclear plant that are -
t i 20t included within the evaluation that takes place. They are 21:: part of, but do not represent, the entire requirement for 22 evaluation by th& Disaster Preparedness Commission.
1 l
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2 t has been made that no plan is possible; and, therefore, the t 3 ii plan would not be considered or evaluated against those d
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4 II criteria.
a 53 Q Who determined that no plan is possible?
61 A Who determined that no plan is possible?
t ,
) _ .
7 Q Yes.
8 A The Disaster Preparedness Commission made that
)
9 determination after an evaluation of the information that it , .
10 obtained through the -- offered thro 9gh the member agencies 11 , of the Disaster Preparedness Commissi. as well as from I
i 12 - materials submitted by the ceanties wLich would be j
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i 13 responsible for the implementation of any plan. ;
I ,
14 . Q When was that determination made?
15 A That has been a continuous evaluation of those i
, 16 il determinations. I think the Governor, in his statement, has 7
! 17 l' indicated that he relied upon member agencies of the i s 18 (4 Disaster Preparedness Commission in reaching tnat t
1
- 19 ll conclusion.
l !!
20 h It has been made over a period of some five
! 1 1 e 1
21t years.
p d
22 h Q Is there any specific DPC Order or Decision 4
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l l 2 li A I don't recall any specific Order reflecting I
But, I believe there is a. statement to the Governor l
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that.
at some point in time that indicates that the plan is a
) 4 il ;
I 5 ii non-plan; and, therefore, it would not be submitted for J
64 either his approval or submission to the federal government.
~
7 Q Was there an administrative proceeding of record 8 which produced that determination?
9 MR. CAHNLEUTER: Could you clarify what that 10 means, "an administrative proceeding of record?"
11 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 12 Q Let =e see if you understand what I am referring 13 to, Dr. Axelrod. Was there any DPC administrative 14 e proceeding in which LILCO participated and in which other 15 . parties participated which led to that determination?
, 16 !! A I think I need some help on "administrative i 0
n 17
- l proceeding." I guess I -- could you tell me what that would 1
4 i 18 ll include or exclude? I need a little bit of help.
l h
19 I Q Well, you tell me, was there any proceeding?
i 20l l
A There was a proceeding in which the Disaster ,
" l 21} Preparedness Commission did evaluate a plan in which the DPC h
e 22 ll made a determination, based on recommendations from staff, ii h
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2 Q Can you describe that proceeding for me?
3 A My best recollection is that it was a meeting of i 4 the Disaster Preparedness Commission.
5 Q Do you recall when that occurred?
6 A No, I do not.
7 Q Is there any record of that meeting? !*
I
~
8 A There are records of all Disaster Preparedness 9 Commission meetings. There are Minutes that are kept. I 10 Q Do you have any recollection generally of when 11 that meeting occurred, 1982 or 1983?
i 12 A I don't have a recollection. .
13 MR. SISK: I will request counsel for the State 14 of New York to see if he can ascertain whether any meeting l
- i
- 15 Minutes exist and, if so, to produce those.
i 16 And, we will make a follow-up request in writing.
l 17 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I will avait your request in j 18 i' writing.
19 ii BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 20 t Q Dr. Axelrod, when you referred to the New York 21 State regulatory requirements earlier for approval of 22i;' radiological emergency response plans at a nuclear power 1
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2L requirements you are referring to? What document I can find 35 those in?
4i A There is a general response plan that I believe 5 has been also submitted to the federal government that 6 identifies the procedures utilized by the Disaster 7 Preparedness Commission for approval of radiological e
8 emergency response plans.
9 Q Is this the New York State Radiological Emergency I
10 Respola:e Plan itself? i 11 A Yes, it is. .
12 Q Was that document based upon federal regulatory 13 requirements for approval of emergency plans for nuclear l t
14 i- power plants? ;
15 A It includes federal requirements.
i 16i: Q Are there requirements in that document in r 17!i addition to federal requirements?
18l A I believe that there are.
J 191! Q Are there requirements that are different from -
a 20h federal requirements?
a 21t A There are requirements that extend beyond the 1
22!I specifics of the< federal requirements that are contained k
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)
4 '{ Q Are there any provisions in that plan that are l i
5l inconsistent with the federal regulatory requirements?
i 6' A To the best of my recollection, there are no j
)
7 inconsistencies, since it would have had to have been 8 approved by the federal government. And, those i 9 inconsistencies would have been identified presumably by the 10 federal government at the time of its submission.
11 Q Was the New York plan approved by the federal I
t 12 government? '
i 13 A Yes, it was.
14 Q By what agency of the federal government?
15 A My recollection is that it was approved by FEMA.
i l 16 1 Q Do you recall when that approval occurred?
l 17 '- A No, I do not. l 1 i 18 I: Q To the best of your recollection, can you j
- I t 191 describe for me the differences in'those regulatory l !
requirements which are specific to the State of New York?
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21 !' A I cannot identify the specific elements other j l l c
22 L than to recall that there are requirements that extend l 1 l l
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35 Q Now, when we refer to the federally mandated 1
! 4i requirements, are we referring to NRC regulations? J 1 ,
5u A Yes.
l i 6 ii Q Does that also include NRC guidance documents? !
7 A Yes.
8 Q And, guidance documents issued by FEMA?
9 A To the best of my recollece. ion, it does include l
10' those documents.
11 Q Dr. Axelrod, on Page 2 of your testimony which 12 I has been marked as Exhibit 2, there is a statement, "I also .
v 13 stress that the views and statements contained herein 1 14 li represent the views of the State of New York." i 15 t Dr. Axelrod, who, within the State of New York --
i 1
I 161 A Where is that' Q Page 2, the middle of the page. I apologize.
17 If l
l 18 U That is the last sentence at the end of the first answer.
l t 1
19 ll A Okay, il ll 2011 Q Dr. Axelrod, who, within the State of New York, Il i
21h authorized you to speak on behalf of the State of New York 4
0 .
22 in this testimony?
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5421102 15 !l 36 l l l 1 GJW/sw 1 ,1 A The Special Counsel to the Governor.
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2 l' Q And, who is that?
3 !L A Mr. Palomino.
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) 4j Q Did anyone else, within the State of New York, 5H
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authorize you to speak on the State's behalf in this 6a testimony? .'
I 7 A No. j-8 Q Are your statements today in this depositi*on also 9 on behalf of the State of New York? *
)
10 A Yes. i
+
11 [ Q And, do they also represent the position of the 1
! 12 E Governor of New York?
13 A Yes. ;
14 6 Q Dr. Axelrod, a bit earlier you referred to
- 15. Article 2-B of the New York State Executive Law. That's the 16 h law which, in fact, creates the Disaster Preparedness 17 k Commission, is it not?
18I! A Yes, it is.
19i MR. SISK: I will now hand to the Reporter and l
201 ask that he mark as Exhibit 3 to this deposition a document 211i entitled "Article 2-E, State and Local Natural and Man-Made i!
.i 22 [ Disaster Preparedness."
i n
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7 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 8 Q Dr. Axelrod, as an official of the State of New 9 York, ars you bound by this State law?
) I 10 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to this question, ;
l 11 because that calls for a legal conclusion. As you know, l 12 Dr. Axelrod is not a lawyer or a legal witness in this case. f i
13 MR. SISK: I'm asking for his answer as the l 1
14 Chairman of the DPC and the Commissioner of the Department i 15 of Haalth. I 16i MR. ZAHNLEUTER: In any event, I sti11 ,
object.
17C But, Dr. Axelrod may answer.
181l THE WITNESS: Article 2-B defines the i
191! responsibilities of the Chairman of the Disaster 4
It also includes reference to the 4
20 ii Preparedness Commission.
i requirement that the Commissioner of Health be a member of 211f, 22i the Disascer Preparedness Commission.
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1- GJW/sw 10 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
Does it also set forth requirements with which i 2 lj Q J
3 you must comply as Chairman of the DPC and Commissioner of 4y the Department of Health?
5 !! MR. ZAHNLEUTER: To expedite matters, I will 6h enter a continuing objection to all questions relating to 7 this exhibit on the grounds that the questions call for 8 legal conclusions by Dr. Axelrod.
9 MR. SISK: And, let me just simply state for the-l 10 record that Dr. Axelrod's testimony incorporates various i n !
11 :t statements about the Governor of the State of New York, some a
0 l 12 of which refer to and rely upon Article 2-B of the Executive l
13 P Law. And, the witness has also previously referred to it. i l
14 il MR. BROWN: Perhaps, counsel, you would want to 15 r just clarify you are asking for his understanding rather ,
16 k than a categorical question.
1 17 11 MR. SISK: It is. It is his understanding in his 18! ! official capacity as Chairman of the DPC and Commissioner of 19 y the Department of Health.
20t 1
Lawyers can always argue legal questions later, i
MR. ZARNLEUTER: My objection stands. But, you 21h il 221! may answer, Dr. Axelrod.
i !
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2f~ BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) '
3" Q Does this law set forth requirements with which ,
3 4
4 ll you must comply as the Chairman of the DPC and Commissioner i
5 !! of the Department of Health?
6 i- A It sets forth requirements for the Commission.
)
7i As I look at the statute, it sets forth a series of 8 requirements and al- enumeration of duties, as well as 9 responsibilities for the Commission and the Chairman.
10 Q And, also various authorities of power; is that i
11 n correct?
I l
12 A Yes.
13 C. Dr. Axelrod, if you will refer to Section 21 of 1441 that document, that, in fact, is the section of the statute 15i- which creates the Disaster Preparedness Commission; is it 16 il not?
17 !! A Yes. _ _ . . _ .
j j !
181l Q Dr. Axelrod, this statute specifically applies to 19I planning for a response to radiological emergencies to l
20' nuclear power plants also, doesn't it?
U 21N A I'm sorry. Your question was?
e i
22i Q The d'ocument also -- the statute, I'm sorry, sets i.
l i
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2 The document also sets forth the -- also applies i 3J to plar.ning for and responding to radiological accidents at
) 4 i commercial nuclear power plants: is that correct?
i 5, MR. BROWN: A clarification. What section are 6 you referring to in saying that? ".
)
7 MR. SISK: Let me refer specifically to the ;
t 8 second page of this document, the definition of "disaster,"
) 9 under Section 20, 2.a.
10 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 11 Q That includes radiological accident I believer is t
12 that correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And, Dr. Axelrod, there are various sections 15 which relate to planning for and responding to radiological 16 emergencies specifically, aren't there? And, particularly 17 ' in Section 29.
18 h MR. BROWN: Clarification. Is your question i
19 li limited to what does Section 29 say? Or, are you asking if
?l 20l! there are other ones in addition to Section 297 L
I 21 !: BY KR. SISK: (Continuing)
J 22 0 Q Can you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod?
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5421 03 03 / 41 1 GJW/sw 1 A I'm looking at Section 29 --
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2f MR. SROWN: I'm sorry. I asked a question. I 3 would like to know what the question is so I can understand it.
) 4 if 5e Is your question limited to -- are you asking 6i what Section 29 says? Or, are you asking him to define what 7 sections in this statute deal with radiological emergencies?
8 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 9 Q Does Section 29-c particularly apply to responses i
10 to and planning for radiological emergencies at nuclear 11 power plants?
12 MR. "ANNLEUTER: 29-c? ;
I 13 e MR. SISK: 29-c. $
I 14 THE WITNESS: 29-c is entitled "Radiological f
15 Preparedness," and it identifies the actions of the 16 E commission with respect to radiological preparedness. I l
17 P BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 18 li Q Dr. Axelrod, if you will look specifically at 5
1 1911 Subsection 1(c) of that section, which appears on a page i
n 20y which has Page Number 45 at the bottom of the document, the i,
216 last paragraph states, "Upon the occurrence of a 221 radiological acc~ident, the commision shall promptly prcvide E
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3 Have I read that correctly?
) 4 A Yes. You said to "any chief executive who ,
6 l
5 requests it," right?
6 Q Correct.
) -
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, is that function of providing radioactivity
) 9 monitoring data part of the function that we referred to 10 earlier that is performed by the REPG?
Pardon me. I want clarification. !
11 MR. BROWN:
12 Again, we are going back to questions which are sensitive to ,
l 13 Shoreham versus non-Shoreham.
4 14 Is this a Shoreham-specific question in whic. you 15 are asking the witness, if there were an accident at the 16 t Shoreham plant would the Commission provide appropriate, i l
17 ' available and so on equipment?
18 t MR. SISK: I have not asked that question.
i t
19 I; MR. BROWN: So, you are excluding Shoreham from
- l 20$ this? You are just asking questions about what the language 1
21: of this statute says generally?
J 22b MR. SISK: I am asking whether the requirement 1
I i
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J -- 40 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to the j ,
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5 !! characterization of this as a requirement. [
6d BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l 1
7 Q Can you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod? '
8 A I can answer the question only with-respect to 9 site-specific activities, since the radiological accident
)
10 response is based upon an existing plan in which information 11 - would be made available on the basis of that plan and would !
12 provide for the specific information that would relate to ;
1 13 the implementation of that plan. !
L ,
t 14 : So that each of the terms, as it relates to the 15 response, would relate to the specific requirements of the I
16 l existing plan for an operating nuclear power plant. i
- s, !
17 '. Q Is it your testimony, Dr. Axelrod, that this
! 4
! 18 li requirement applies only if there is a plan for a specific .
1 )
- 4 i 19 k plant?
il
'l 20 A There is no way in which we could respond to l
21ii provide monitoring data unless the nature of that data were i 22 !! p related to the s'ecific responses and the specific l
, a ,
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t 1 GJW/sw 10 relationships of that plant to the population at risk. i 1
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) "
2 So, therefore, our ability to provide information ,
1 3; would relate to a specific plan which we define in the j ,
). 4i nature of the information to be provided to the chief i
5 .4 executive at the time of a radiological accident. -
I 6e Q So, is it your testimony that this requirement >
l i
)
7 does not apply unless there is a specific plan for the j 8 particular plant?
9 MR. 2AHNLEUTER: I object. This has been asked 10 and answered once, and perhaps twice.
11 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
\
12 Q Could I get an answer to that? '
l' 13 MR. BROWN: I also object on grounds that this is i 14 calling not for his understanding of the law but the ,
15 statutory construction of the nature that lawyers and legal 16;i scholars are engaged in.
- 17
- : MR. SISK: I will stipulate that I'm asking for ,
j !
4 18 l1 the witness' understanding. l c
191! THE WITNESS: My understanding is that the 1
20 !! requirement would be to respond to the best of its a ,
21:l capabilities in a radiological accident, and those 22 tl capabilities would be dependent upon the existence of a plan l
' I l
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1 GJW/sw 1/ in order to give the data any meaning to the chief executive
)' .
I 2, who requests it. I 3 ,
BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l
) 4- Q Dr. Axelrod, does the requirement apply to a l
5- nuclear power plant if there is no site-specific plan, to l I
I 6 the best of your understanding as the Chairman of the !
)
7 DPC?
8 MR. C AHNLEUTER: I object to this question. It's 9 a mischaracteri:ation of the statute as a requirement. l
)
10 But, I would also seek a clarification to i
11 determine if you are including the Shoreham Nuclear Power i
12 Plant in your question?
I 13 MR. SISK: I think my question speaks for itself. l 1
14 MR. ; AHNLEUTER: Then, I object, because it is 15 vague end on the other grounds that I've asserted.
i 16 MR. BROWN: Well, I would like to know, does it i 17 or does it not include Shoreham? That seems like a 18 t. straightforward question that we should know.
d 19 lj BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 20lj Q Let me ask you this, Dr. Axelrod. To your 21 !! understanding, does this statute exclude Shoreham?
n 22 t A There'.is nothing in the statute that makes J
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) i 5481 03 08 46 1 GJW/sw 1J reference to Shoreham.
)
2 Q Is there anything in the statute that excludes 3 ': Shoreham from the ambit of the statute? ;
t i
) 4r MR. BROWN: Again, you are asking for his
! l 5L understanding?
i 6 MR. SISK: As Chairman of the DPC.
)
7 MR. BROWN: However, I would like to stress that 8 this really is beyond the scope of anyone's understanding
) 9 except the legal scholar. You are asking for statutory 10 construction at this time as opposed to an administrator's 11 impression of what his responsibilities are, i
12 ,
MR. SISK: I'm asking --
13 MR. BROWN: You have asked him to interpret a 14 provision of the statute and not: As you look at this 15 statute in your understanding of it, sir, is it your 16 i understanding that you have the responsibility. 4 1
17 r MR. SISK: For clarification, and because we do ;
18 6! have limited time, let me stipulate that every question I
, i 19 L ask related to Article 2-B or any other provision of law of i
!i p
20 f this witness is asked to the witness in his capacity as the ,
J l 21 !. Chairnan of the Disaster Preparedness Commission and the l
22 L Commissioner of the Department of Health, and it I t
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1 GJW/sw 1 specifically relates to his understanding in that official
)
2 capacity. i 3 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l 4- Q I'm not asking you legal questions. That can be ,
5 debated by lawyers.
l 6 Do you understand that, Dr. Axelrod?
)
7 A I understand it, but I don't know that it' 8 necessarily makes it any easier for me to respond to your j 9 questions.
10 Q Well, let me just ask you specifically, to your 11 knowledge, is there anytting in this statute which excludes 12 Shoreham from the applicability of this statute? ,
13 MR. CAMNLEUTER: Are you asking for a specific 14 citation to a section?
s 15 MR. SISK: I'm asking for anything to the 16 witness' knowledge.
17 ' MR. ZAHNLEUTER: So, you are asking him to review ,
i 18 d this document to point out specific words? Is that j 1
i 19 ij understanding of mine correct?
20i BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 21i Q Can the witness answer the question?
2 2 t' MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Can you answer my question ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS,1NC, 202 347 3700 N ' ' "' 'd ' C "* I' em
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Y 5481 03 10 48 1 GJW/sw 1e first, Mr. Sisk?
)
2 '; MR. SISK: Let ne state for the record that it's 3H now 3:55. We have a very limited time for conducting the
) 4 i! questioning.
4 1
' 1 5s It is my firm impression that both counsel for 6I the State and counsel for Suffolk County are obstructing my .
)
7 questioning and not permitting the witness to answer a 4, 8 straightforward question. I have attempted, as best'.I can, j
9 to clarify the question several times, i 10 I would like to have an answer.
11 , MR. BROWN: Well, I want to -- 1 12 MR. I AHNLEUTER: I disagree with your 13 characteri:ations of obstruction. I won't delay this 14 , proceeding any further.
i 15 I am simply asking for the type of answer that i 16 i, you are looking for so that Dr. Axelrod may give an ,
17 appropriate answer. If you are asking him to review this 1 8 1: document to cite a specific question, than please just say j
19 p yes or no to my inquiry, d
s 200 MR. SISK: I'm not asking that Dr. Axelrod reviev 21 0
21il every word, colon, comma and phrase in the document. I'm a
f 22li asking Dr. Axelrod, as Chairman of the Disaster Preparedness e
i, ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, lNC.
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49 j 5431 03 11 3 GJW/sw 10 Commission, which is created by the statute and which is
)
responsible for implementing this statute, whether there is !
2L l
3[ anything, to his knowledge, that excludes Shoreham from the
) operation or applicability of this statute.
4 ll 5 !: MR. BROWN: Well, before that, I am going to -
l J
6o respond to your accusation of my obstructionism. I think !
)
7 you got carried away here.
B But, the failure here for the last several
)
9 minutes has been your inability to phrase an intelligent I
10 question and your insistence that the witness engage in 11 legal statutory construction. ,4 i
12 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) ;
Q Can you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod?
13 }
14 L A My difficulty is that Section (a), (b), and (c) 15 of 29-c.1 contain a number of conditions which relate to the 16i ability of the Commission to make determinations. None of 175 those conditions, in effect, exist for the Shoreham Power i
i 18 il Plant.
I!
19I! My presumption would be that those conditions b
20 {j would have to be met in order for the commission to provide F
21l; appropriate radioactivity monitoring data to any chief
'n 22! executive. So, my concern with respect to any response is I
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2 !; these information exist and they have been provided to the ! -
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?q Commission to allow it to provide appropriate and available l.
l k
) 4 li radioactivity monitoring data, j l !
5 So that when you ask me if Shoreham is excluded,
- 6) by virtue of the fact that these information do not exist
)
7 l within the Co==ission, I would believe that-, in effect, 8 Shoreham would be excluded by the fact that these critical 9 pieces of information, which would allow an appropriate 10 response to a chief. executive, don't exist.
11' MR. SISK: Okay. Let's take a recess.
I 12 (Whereupon, a recess is taken at 3:56 p.m., to 13 reconvene at 4:05 p.m., this same date.) ,
i 14 .- BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) i 15 , Q Dr. Axelrod, if you will, turn to Section 22 of 16 ii Exhibit 3.
l '
(The witness is complying.) f j 17 I l
e >
1811 Section 22 states that, "The commission shall j l
J ; .
prepare a state disaster preparedness plan and submit such 19 q :
i '
d.
20 ij plan to the governor for approval no later than one year 1
j 21d following the effective date of this act."
4 l 22k Dr. Axelrod, does the State have a State-wide '
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i l j 51 5421 03 13 i
!j 1 .GJW/sw 1 disaster preparedness plan?
2i A Yes.
3 Il' Q And, is there also a State-wide radiological I
1
) 4y emergency response plan? l a
p 5h .A- The State-wide plan consists of the site-specific ,
1
- 1 6 Il plans for each of the operating nuclear power plants.. So j
' l
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7 that while there is a State-wide plan, it focuses on the f 8 individual activities and the State's responses required at !
) 9 each of the specific sites.
10 Each of those is appended to the major plan as 11 , being part of the State-wide response. I 1
i i
12 l' MR. SISK: Okay. Dr. Axelrod, I'm going to hand ,
t 13 to the Reporter a document which is covered by a memorandum, ,
a l 14 i dated September 1, 1987. It is from James D. Papile, j 15 i Director, REPG, to All Recipients of the NYS Padiological 16i: Plan. Its subject, according to the title of the document, f 17 y is the Revised New York State Plan.
d j 18 F (A document with a cover memorandum, dated 1911 September 1, 1987, from James D. Papile 20W a
to All Recipients of the NYS Radiological h
21il Plan, is marked as Axelrod Deposition 22 ll . Exhibit Number 4 for identification.)
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5421 03 14 ,
52 1 'GJW/sw 1J BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) a
)
2 l Q I'm going to ask you to -- this document is very 3a thick, by the way. I only have two copies available, one
) 49 for the Reporter and one for the State.
5d I will ask you to look briefly at that document 6 and tell me whether you can identify it for me? ".
)
7 (The witness is looking at the document.) <
8 Dr. Axelrod, for the purposes of time, it'.is not I
) 9 necessary for you to identify every page of the exhibit.
10 A What I am attempting to see is whether or not it -
11 4 represents the complete plan or it represents a portion 12 thereof.
13 Q Excellent. Thank you. l 14 (The witness continues to look at the document.) t 15 A This does not represent the complete plan but ,
16 represents that portion of the plan which identifies the 17 L response and it refers to the site-specific plans which are 18 r a part of the overall State plan that have been attached in
. L 19 lj the past. It is an appendicos, so I'm not sure how this 20 !! relates to the existing State plan except as a part of it, il 21i Q Dr. Axelrod, let me ask you to turn to Page 1 of 22l}
4 that document. I,t bears the title of "Executive Summary" at l t i I s ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC, g s.nonwe c ,me, m ,, _
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2 l (The witness is complying.)
k, Is this 3l ,
MR. BROWN: May I ask for clarification?
) 4 Executive Summary that of the entire plan, Mr. Sisk? Or, is -
5 this the Executive Summary of a portion of the plan?
6 MR. SISK: Let's ask the witness.
)
7 ;j BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 8* Q Can you answer that question posed by Mr. Brown, ,
I
)
9 il Dr. Axelrod' 10 l' A The Executive Summary refers to the State ,
! l 1
11 !! Disaster Preparedness Plan, although the document which I h
12 L have before me does not contain that portion of the plan '
4 I
13 !! which is identified as containing the seven-county plans, l 1
14 !! county and state implementation materials, et cetera, that 15 ij relate to the site-specifics. .
i so that while the Executive Summary is in the 16k il 17 l front of the document and refers to the site-specific plans,
) it does not contain the site-specific plans.
18 1 f Dr. Axelrod, Page 1 of the Executive Summary, 19 } Q 20 .
under Introduction, states, "This New York State l
21 i Radiological Emergency Preparedness P.an has been written to 1
22i assist in protecting the health and safety of the u
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- 1 'GJW/sw 1d inhabitants of New York-State in the event of an emergency F 1 2 at a commercial nuclear power plant. !
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"The New York State Disaster Preparedness Plan
) 4 addresses radiological emergencies in general terms whereas this NYS Radiological Emergency Preparedness Plan fills in 5f 6 the specific details."
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7W Now, let me continue with that quote: "This Plan s !
n 80 also contains seven county plans, county and State
- 9 !)
implementation material and procedures necessary to carry ,
li 'l' out adequate protective action responses should a 10i: '
\
i l
11 '
radiological emergency at a nuclear power plant occur. All l
f l components of this Plan are designed to provide preplanned 12 )l 13 I coordinated efforts by emergency managers."
i 14 Now, Dr. Axelrod, having reviewed briefly this 15i document, is this a complete copy -- or, does it appear to
\
16 be a complete copy of the New York State Radiological 17 l
Emergency Preparedness Plan with the exception of those i
18 site-specific county plans?
li 19 l A There --
l Am I 20 j MR. BROWN: A point of clarification first.
21 l correct to assume this excludes Shoreham? It says, "a 22 -
commercial nuclear power plant."
i ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS,1NC, Nationwide Coverage 202 347 3700 9
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5421 03 17 ,
55
- 2. GJW/sw 1 Is'your_ question excluding Shoreham?
) '!.
2 i MR. SISK: The document will speak for itself.
d 3h MR. BROWN: But, so I understand what the h
) 4l question is, I would like a clarification.
?
5 MR. SISK: I must exprass befuddlement at this 6[ continuing ob]ection. I have read the centants of the ;
) A, I'
7y document.
8 My question is, is this the New York State 9' Radiological Emergency Preparedness Plan with the exception
- i I
10 y of the seven county plans that are referred to in that
\l 11 0 paragraph? That's my question.
- ll 11 12 F MR. BROWN: Your question is not asking whether ll
- i 13if this would apply to Shoreham, then; am I correct?
N 14 MR. SISK: I have not asked that question.
15 !I MR. BROWN: And, therefore, your question is?
y 16 h Could you repeat your question?
I 17 f BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 3 18 Q Do you understand the question, Dr. Axelrod?
i 19 J A Well, first of all, I am having difficulty in r
20 affirming that this represents the plan, having just been 21 handed the document. Without a more careful examination I 22 am reluctant to suggest that this is, in fact, the N
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Disaster Preparedness Plan prepared by the New York State
)
2 Radiological Emergency Group for the purposes of dealing ,
3 i with the specific details.
P
) 4f It is -- it would appear to contain all of the 5 i elements which have formed the basis of the site-specific d
6j plans, but I have no way of being certain of that since, as
) i 7b you have pointed out, to go through it in detail would take .,
i l 8L an extraordinary amount of time. .
9; Q Dr. Axelrod, if you will, look at the cover h ,
10 f memorandum. Is that the official letterhead of the Disaster 4
11 Preparedness Commission?
I (The witness is complying.)
i 12 [ '
0 13 1l A Yes, it is.
$ i l 14j: Q Do you recognize the initial next to Mr. James 15 k D. papile's name on that document?
i 1 %
l 16 L A Yes.
P 17
't
- Q And, is that Dr. Papile's -- is he a Doctor? I lI i
apologi:e.
i 18 h[!
19 ll: (Pause.)
1 20 I don't know. I will be safe.
21 ! A General. We will both be safe with General.
j 1 22 ) (Laughter.)
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5421 04.02 57-1 GJW/sw 1 Q Very well. Is that General Papile's -- or, does
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2 that appear to be General Papile's signature?
3: A Yes.
4' Q Is there anything in this document -- I recognize
)
5, you've only reviewed it briefly, but is there anything in 6e this document to suggest that it is not a correct copy of 7 what it is stated to be in that cover memorandum? i 8 A From the cursory review, I don't see anything F 9 that would suggest that it is not.
10 MR. SISK: Let me request on the record that 11 prior to hearings on this subject, the witness either review i
) 12 this document and verify that it is the current version of ;
13 the New York State Radiological Emergency Preparedness Plan i
14 for commercial plants; or, if it is not, I would request i
15 that the State provide a current copy.
16 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) ! l j
17 Q Now, Dr. Axelrod, let's assume for a moment that l 18 this is a correct copy. Is this the New York State 3
19 ' Radiological Emergency Preparedness Plan with the exception ,
1 20 i of the seven county plans referred to in that paragraph that ,
I i 21 : I read of the Executive Summary? ;
- 22 ' A The concern that I have is that the Suffolk i
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58 5421 04 03 1 GJW/sw 1 County plans are not the only parts of the plan. There are
)
2 site-specific plans for each of the nuclear -- operating 3, nuclear commercial plants that extend beyond the t'pecific
) 4L information associated with the counties.
5 Q Are these the so-called Nuclear Facility Operator 6i Plans, NFO plans?
) And, they are appended as part of the 7 A Yes.
8 State Radiological Emergency Plan. So, they are part and 9 parcel.
10 But, this represents only a portion of it. That 11 is my concern, that this not be construed as being the plan.
12 Q Okay. Can you describe for me the components of 13 the New York State Radiological Emergency Preparedness Plan 14 which go beyond this document?
15 A The components relate to site-specific elements.
16 They relate to plume characteristics. They relate to ground 17 characteristics. They relate to demographic 18! characteristics. They relate to --
19i Q Let me ask it this way. What specific documents 204 included within the New York State Radiological Emergency 21: Plan are r,t contained in the materials before you?
22- Are t t r -- can we safely summarize those as i
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2 plans, and all' appendices and information that go with those 3 site-specific plans? ,
y 4L A That -- I would have to check to be certain that i
5, there are not other elements-that are contained within the 6 complete plan. But, those are the major elements that are .
) contained within the State plan.
7 S Q can you think of anything else?
9 A I can't. But, on the other hand, I haven't I 10 reviewed this in some time. So, I am reluctant'to say that i
i j
11 this represents the complete document or that those ;
12 documents themselves represent the only addenda that would .
13 constitute a complete State plan.
Now, Dr. Axelrod, earlier we talked about State i
14 Q l 15 requirements for emergency plans for nuclear power plants.
7 16 Does this document -- and I'm referring specifically to the i
17 portion you have before you, and I will again ask you to- ,
- 18 assume that it is a correct copy of the generic part of the t
19i New York State plan, is this the document you were referring t 20c to which sets forth the State's requirements for emergency 21' plans for nuclear plants generally?
! 22; KR. Z AHNLEUT ER: I object to the characteri:stion ,
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1 of this document as the generic State plan. I don't believe 1 GJW/sw
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2 Dr. Axelrod has ever used those words today. ,
3' MR. SISK: The generic part of the State plan. !
i 4 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
)- t 5 Q Can you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod? ,
I 6 A It carries within it a requirement for the .l l
)
7 general operations of the emergency response and identifies ,,
I (
8 those critical elements associated with direction and '
t 9 response activities, assessment and evaluation. [
i [
10 Without looking specifically to ensure that all ,
11 elements that were contained within the original plan that !
l I 12 identified State-specific requirements, I really would not
. I 13 want to comment on it further.
14 Q Dr. Axelrod, is there any other document, to your ;
- 15 knowledge, which sets forth State DPC requirements for ,
I
! 16 radiological emergency plans or preparednass plans for t ,
17 commercial nuclear power plants? j q
A I'm not aware of any additional plan. On the l 18 i '
i other hand, I am reluctant to conclude that this contains {' l 19-1 /
20 within it all of the State-specific requirements without !
t 21' having reviewed it. '
j ;
l j
22' But, I know of no other document, i 1
j i B
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5431 04 06 61 1 GJW/sw 1 Q You know of no other document that contains such
) +
2 State DPC requirements; is that correct?
3 A My concern is the following: I have not reviewed
)
4 this most recent revised New York State Plan which is based i
5 upon a previous plan which did contain a number of concerns, 6 State-specific elements. And, whether or not they have all
)
7 been transcribed f aithfully it. this plan, I'm not in a 8 position to respond to unless I've had the opportunity to 9 compare this with the previous plans that have been the 10 basis for the State-wide planning requirements.
11 Q Now, ignoring whether the document contains all
)
12 of the State requirements, is there any other document which 13 contains State requirements, State DPC requirements, for 14 radiological emergency plans for commercial nuclear power 3
15 plants?
16 A As I've indicated, I don't believe that there is, f 17 Q Thank you. If this plan is a correct copy of the 18 State Radiological Emergency Plan, as set forth in the cover 19 memorandum, has this document been approved by you?
20 A I have no recollection of specific approval 21 having been granted for the distribution of this plan.
22 Q Do you have any specific recollection of the ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. INC.
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5421 04 07 62 1 GJW/sw 1 revision, dated September 1, 1987?
I i 2 A I am aware of the fact that there was a revision .
3 in progress. I am not aware that there has been a full- .
) 4s approval of the revised plan as it has been presented to me .
5 here today. ;
i 6o Q Has it been approved?
) I have no recollection of a specific approval 7 A 8 having been granted for the revised plan.
9 Q Would you have to approve it prior to its
) .
10 official issuance? ,
l 11 A The Disaster Preparedness Commission would !
I 12 consider the revised plan prior to its becoming the official I t
13 designated plan and replacing a previously approved plan.
14 Q And, that would have to be approved by the entire i
15 Commission; is that correct?
16 A It would be presented to the Commission for its ,
i t
)
17 approval.
i i 18 Q Do you know whether it has been presented for ,
i 19: approval? !
1 l
20? A The Commission meets twice annually. The most .
t I
21:
recent Commission meeting was only several weeks ago, and it }
I 22 was not presented at the time of that meeting for official j o
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I 2 There has been discussion of the revised plan, 3 , but I cannot give you an affirmative answer as to whether or 4 not this has been approved by the full Disaster Preparedness
)-
5 Commission.
6 Q So, the answer is that you don't know whether it
) 7 has been approved by the full DPC7 8 A The best of my recollection is that it has not.
9 Q Dr. Axelrod, the cover memorandum says that it is 10 to all recipients of the New York State Radiological Plan.
11 Can you tell me who the recipients are?
I' 12 ' A The recipients would be the State, the federal 13 and local agencies that would be required to respond under 14 i the site-specific activities that would be identified in the 15 appendices which represent the complete radiological plan.
16 Q Does the DPC have a list of recipients?
i 17 A I believe that it does, yes.
18
- Q Is that maintained by General papile?
19' A Yes.
20i Q Are there any recipients within the government of i
21f Suffolk County?
22 9 A The recipients of Suffolk County would relate to ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC.
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5421 04 09 64 1 GJk'/sw 1 any site-specific relationships to any of the operating
)
2 nuclear power planta. I believe that since there is a 3 relationship cf one of the operating nuclear power plants l 4 that it would have been provided to the entities, all
) !
5 entities responsible for responding.
6 Q Do you know whether that would include anyone ,
)
7 within the government of Suffolk County? ,
8 A I have no specific knowledge as to whether or not anyone within Suffolk County received a copy. I can only 9
10 rely upon the distribution list that General papile would 11 have as to who would have received it, including anyone 12 within Suffolk County.
13 MR. SISK: Let me simply note for the record that I have numerous questions concerning this document. And, in 14 15 the interest of time -- I will not have sufficient time 16 between now and five o' clock to cover those.
17 So, let me ask you just a few questions about 18 this document.
19' MR. CAHNLEUTER: It's only 25 after four, 2 0 !. Mr. Sisk. Why don't you try? I 21: MR. SISK: I have other questions to cover as 22 well.
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5431 04 10 1 GJW/sw 1, BY MR. SISK: (Centinuing) ,
) 2 Q Dr. Axelrod, does this document identify the !
I 3 resources generally available to the Ftate for responding to
-4 radiological-emergencies at nuclear power plants? !
)
5 MR. . BROWN: ' A clarification. Are you including o \
64 the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant? l ,
7 MR. SISK: I am including any plant within the f.
8 State of New York, which includes Shoreham. ,
i 9 MR. BROWN: Even though Shoreham is not an
)'
10 operating plant, you are including Shoreham, I take it?
+
i 11 MR. SISK: Yes. ; ;
i
) 12 ' THE WITNESS: The plan operates on generic l I
i 13 capabilities of each of the departments that would be .;
I i t
14 involved in a response, as they are identified in the seven j i
j 15 counties -- as are identified in relationship to the seven i
16 counties in which there would be an expected response in the ,
I l l 17 avant of an accident at an operating commercial power plant.
l !
t i
18 It does not include Shoreham. ,
1 r i
19 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
I i 201- Q Dr. Axelrod, is it your testimony that the State ;
t
< i i ;
i' 21: resources identified in this document would not be available I .
) , i 22i for response to an emergency at the Shoreham Nuclear power i s
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5421 04 11 66 1 GJW/sw 1 Plant?
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2 A It would be impossible for me to speculate as to 3 what resources might or might not be available, since there I y
4 is the assumption that those rasources would be in response 5 to a plan. Since there is no plan with respect to Shoreham, 6 it is impossible for me to identify which resources would or
) would not be available in addressing an incident at the 7
8 Shoreham plant.
9 Q Dr. Axelrod, when you say there is no plan, de
)
10 you mean there is no suffolk County plan?
11 A No. There is no site-specific plan with respect I
12 to the Shoreham. Nuclear Facility.
13 Q Dr. Axelrod, have you -- let me ask you this, 14 Dr. Axelrod. Referring back to your testimony, on Pag,2 of 4
15 your testimony there is a question at the bottom of the 16 page which states, "Are you aware that LILCO has prepared an i 17 offsite emergency plan for Shoreham and that LILCO asserts 18 that State personnel would follow that plan in responding 19 cooperatively with LILCO personnel to an accident at ,
20: Shoreham?"
21 Answer: "Yes."
22 Now, Dr. Axelrod, you are aware that LILCO has ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. INC.
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'67 5421 04 12 GJW/sw 1 prepared an offsite emergency plan for Shoreham, are you l _1.
)- 2 not?
3 i A Yes. The fact that LILCO has prepared a plan I would not suggest that a 4l doesn't mean that a plan exists.
f 5 plan prepared by LILCO represents an offsite emergency
- n 6 preparedness plan as far as we are concerned in terms of its ability to respond to the specifics that we believe should 7
8 be responded to in terms of the development of an offsite 1
9 plan.
(
10 Q What would be necessary, in your opinion, 11 Dr. Axelrod, as Chairman of the DPC, for a site-specific 12 " plan to exist?
A The first would be an assertion that a plan 13 l 14 could, indeed, be developed. And, in the case of the 15 Shoreham facility, the conclusion has been reached that it 16 would not be possible to provide for such a plan.
17 Q Dr. Axelrod, do you mean that a plan physically 18' cannot be written up for Shoreham? ,
19 A Well, there is no limit to the amount of paper 20F that can be produced that relates to operating parameters
'l 21? that relate to a plan.
h 224 Q What do you mean then by "a plan is not possible '
l l
l l
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2 A A site-specific plan relates to the ability of 1
3" that-plan to provide public protection and to assure the j 4 li welfare of those individuals and to effectively carry out
)- !
l 5 the assurance responsibility that government has. ,
64 The conclusion has been reached by the Governor .
7 that no such-possibility of a governmental assurance is ,
8 potentially possible. And, the Suffolk County Executive has 9 also made statements to the effect that such an assurance 10 would not be possible and, therefore, that a plan could not l 11 be written that would provide for the kinds of assurances l l
'. 12 that government have the responsibility to provide to its l
13 residents.
l.
l 14 Q So, Dr. Axelrod, is -- and correct my 15 characterization if it's incorrect -- your testimony toen f
16: thtt it is possible to prepare a plan, but in the State's ;
17 view it is not possible to prepare a plan for Shoreham which l
180 will meet applicable State and federal regulatory 1
19; requirements for protecting the public health and safety in i 200 the event of an emergency?
l 21! Is that your position? !
lm 22! A My position is that no plan could be prepared for ;
i l
I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC. ,
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69 l 5421 04 14 1 GJW/sw 1 Shoreham since the requirements with respect to public : i
)-- safety cannot be met at Shoreham. l
.2 l 3' Q Is the answer yes?
l 4 ll A The. answer to my question is yes. I am not sure
)
I understood your question. It was a little bit convoluted, 51 i
6 so I prefer to respond yes to a question which I understand. ,
I 7 If you want to rephrase it -- ,
8 Q Is it your position that a plan could be drafted but that such a plan could never meet federal and S'.. ate 9
)
10 regulatory requirements for protecting public health and 11: safety? I 12 MR. Z AHNLEUTER: I would like a clarification.
13 Drafted by whom and under what circumstances?
14 MR. SISK: I am trying to understand what the 15- witness' testimony was.
16 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Your question is vague.
I 17' BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) i I
i 18 Q Can you answer the question? ,
I
( 19F A What I think I have previously testified to is l 1
[
l 20p that it is possible to develop a great deal of paper with f l 215 respect to identifying issues that relate to some of the ,
)
i 22:: parameters that would be required in the State -- under the l
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5421 04 15 GJW/sw 1 State directive.
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2 My testimony is that I do not.believe that a plan [
31 can be prepared that is a plan that would provide for an ,
4 il adequate level of safety, that would provide for public
)
5 assurance, governmental assurance, to protect the public 6 <. welfare under the circumstances at Shoreham. j I 7 Q And, is that specifically what you mean by "a 8 plan cannot be prepared?"
9 A That is what I mean by "a plan cannot be 10 prepared."
11 : Q And, when you refer to a plan that is adequate to i
12 ' protect public health and safety, what standards are you ,
! 13 referring to in making the judgment that the plan cannot !
f 14, adequately protect public health and safety? .
15 A I am referring to judgments that have been made i t 16 by experts to whom information -- by whom information has ;
17 ,
been provided to both the Suffolk County Executive and to 18: the Governor of the State of New York. '
19E Q What experts are you referring to? i 204 A I think that the G vernor has identified the l ,
1
' 1 1
I 21' origins of the information that he has based his 1 22 determination on.- And, I believe that the County Executive 1
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'5421 04 16 1 GJW/sw 1 has.also identified the specific nature of the information
)-
which he has relied upon to reach his conclusion with 2
3 respect to the inability to prepare a plan.
p 4- Q Where has the Governor identified that i 5 information?
And,-I 6 A The Governor has submitted an affidavit.
7 would defer to counsel.
8 Q Is that the affidavit attached to this testimony, 9 Dr. Axelrod, to your testimony, Exhibit 2?
10 (The witness is looking at the document.)
11 A "It is important to bear in mind that experts of 12 New York State have analyzed LILCO's Plan and th'e 13 capabilities of LILCO's emergency workers as part of the 14 State's participation..."
15 "These State officials, including those who 16 presented sworn testimony, have found LILCO's emergency plan i 17 to be unworkable and its emergency workers incapable of 18 performing effectively in a radiological emergency." i 19- MR. SISK: Let the record reflect that the 200 witness is reading from a portion of an affidavit by the
- 21. Governor, which is attached to the witnest' testimony.
l 22! BY MR.- SISK: (Continuing)
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5421 04 17 72 1
1 GJW/sw 1, Q Dr. Axelrod, the statement you have just referred j
) 2 to, did that make specific reference to the.LILCO plan which l
3t i is currently in litigation before the NRC?
j i A The reference is to LILCO's plan. And, this is 44, -
/ ,
5 on Page 2 of the Governor's affidavit and the Governor's 6i testimony. ..
7! And, I don't know whether or not that is the 8, LILCO plan that is currently the subject of. litigation.
9 Q Dr. Axelrod, are you aware that the Nuclear
)
10 Regulatory Commission Licensing Board has determined that an 11 h adequate emergency plan for the Shoreham Plant is possible?
) 12 MR. BROWN: I object to that -- ;
i I
13 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object.
i 14 MR. BROWN: -- as a gross mischaracterization of ,
1 15 what the Board said.
16 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I have the same objection. .
I
) 17 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) i 18 Q Can you answer the question?
o 19: MR. ZAHNLEUTER: If you know. )
I 20i' THE WITNESS: No, I do not know. i 21P MR. SISK: Dr. Axelrod, I'm going to hand to the ,
i 22 Court Reporter a. document entitled "United States Nuclear ;
i I
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i 54212 05 01.
Regulatory Commission, Cite as 21 NRC 1587 (1985)." It is a 1 GJW/sw 1
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2l decision, dated June 20, 1985.
3 '- And, I will vouch for the record that it is a I 4 ll decision of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission granting LILCO
) i 5~ a license to the Shoreham plant. ,
-1 J
6+ (A Decision of the NRC, 21 NRC 1587(1985), ,
I 7 dated June 20, 1985, is marked as 8 Axelrod Deposition Exhibit Number 5 for 9 identification.)
)
10 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) i 11 Q I will ask you, Dr. Axelrod, to turn to Page t i
12 1589.
13 (The witness is complying.)
14 That states, "We note that our Licensing Board in 15 its..."
16 MR. BROWN: Where is this, Mr. Sisk?
I i
17 MR. SISK: This is in the aiddle of the page.
l 18 ' "We note that our Licensing Board in its decision of April l r
I i 19 y 17, 1985..." and there is a citation, "has found that an l
20y adequate emergency plan is in fact achievable if the State i I
l 21! and County participate in emergency planning, as all other i f
l l 22 t: local and State jurisdictions have done when so called ;
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I-2 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 4 3 Q Have I read that correctly? l 4 .i A Yes, you have. !
)_ l 5 Q Dr. Axelrod, until today, were you aware that the 6 ,, Nuclear Regulatory Commission had made that determination I i
) 7 just quoted?
8 A I have no specific recollection --
9 MR. BROWN: I object. The Nuclear Regulatory 1 .
10 Commission made no dete'rmination whatsoever. They made a 11 notaticn.
l 12 MR. SISK: I will stand corrected.
13 MR. BROWN: Insofar as the legal effect of that ,
1 l
14 notation, we categorically disagree that there ever was any 15 finding. If you would like to, Mr. Sisk, go back to those 16- wcrds that the Licensing Board used and read those into the 17 record. And we, among counsel, won't quibble away some of ;
L i 18t your precious time, because they do not represent what you 19' are trying to suggest. .
l 2 0 f! MR. SISK: I would prefer to let the record stand f I l 21: on its own.
i l
l 22' THE WI-TNESS: If I might, with respect to that ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS lNC.
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75 i
1 GJW/sw 1. statement?
)
2 [. BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
.i 3 !4 Q Yes.
., t
) 4[ A There is a hypothetical, which is attached to the 4
t 5p Licensing Board's note, wh'ich relates if the State and 6k county participate in emergency planning.
7 In spite of the Licensing Board's decision, the 8 . County has' clearly identified the fact that it will not 9 participate in emergency planning because of its conclusion 10 that no plan can be. constructed.
11 So that if one construes the notation as it is t
)
12 ' identified on,Page 1589, one would reach the conclusion that ,
13 ', no plan is available because State and County have clearly ,
1 14 il determined that they will not participate in emergency 1 5 t' planning based upon their own evaluations.
16 So, I would construe that as, in fact, concluding i
17 li that no adequate emergency plan could be identified for l 18 !! Suffolk County.
- l
'19 Q Dr. Axelrod, does that mean that it's your ,
understanding that the State and County have declined to !
20h 21E plan because they disagree with the NRC characterization 22 f! that a plan is, in fact, achievable?
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I 76 5421 05 04 1 GJW/sw 1 MR. BROWN: I object --
) I object.
MR. ZAHNLEUTER:
2 3
MR. BROWN: -- categorically. On behalf of the 46 County, the reasons for the County are well known to you.
51 They have nothing to do with what you suggested.
6 And, I would like to say that we will not look ,j
) 7 favorably or charitably upon your complaints later that you ,
8 had no time, Mr. Sisk, when you simply dribble it away over 9 frivolities.
10 MR. SISK: I am asking the witness to explain hic 1 11' answer.
I 12 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 13 Q And, I will pass on if you cannot answer the 14 question. Can you?
15 A What was the question?
Let me withdraw it. Dr. Axelrod, does the State 16 Q f
17 DPC have any plans for responding to radiological 18- emergencies for plants outside the State of New York? ,
19: A Tne State cooperates with other entities that are ,
i i
l
! 209 responsible for operating commercial nuclear power plants 21: and has documents that relate to site-specific responses for ,
22[ those other commercial power plants that are located outside 1 l
l i
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k e 77 5421 05 05 1 GJW/sw 1 the State of'New York in which the emergency planning zone Y
2 extends to within certain specific areas within the State of 3
Does that include the Yankee Rowe Plant? -j
) 4 ij Q 5 A Yes, it does.
6 Q There is an exercise for that plant, in fact,
)' next week; is there not?
7 8 A I know there is an exercise. I don't know the l
9 specific scheduling of that exercise.
)-
10 Q The State of New York DPC has site-specific plans I li t for responding in the event of an emergency at Yankee Rowe; l f: i
) 12 is that correct?
13 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Excuse me. I would like to i
l 14 L object.
15 MR. SISK: The witness just said he had 16+ site-specific plans. I'm asking if that is correct for l
n I
17 ' Yankee Rowe.
18 P MR. ZAHNLEUTER: What I would like to do is 1
register an objection based on relevancy grounds, because 19 r 200 the issue here is Shoreham, LILCO and the realism issue, f
21: Other nuclear power plants are irrelevant to the I
2 2 .' subject of this proceeding.
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78 5421 05 06-2 GJW/sw 1t BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 2 Q Dr. Axelrod, your testimony states, does it not, 3 il that there is no site-specific plan for Shoreham; is that l 3
4h correct? ;
h
- i 5a A That is correct.
6i Q Is it your testimony that there is a i 7d site-spec ific plan for the Yankee Rowe plant that is 8- establi;hed by the DPC?
99 A The DPC does not have a site-specific plan for
) '
10 e the Yankee plant. The site-specific plan has been forwarded 11 ., to the Disaster Preparedness Commission by the responsible I
12 agency within the. State of Connecticut as to the expected 13 role of geographic areas witnin the State of New York.
14 Q Is that site-specific plan incorporated within
)
15 your State plan that was handed to you earlier? i MR. Z AHNLEUTER: I will make a continuing 16a I 17 il objection on all questions related to the Yankee Rowe plant, ,
18 especially in light of the diminishing amount of time that i
19y is available.
4 i 20p And, my objection is grounded on relevancy. j i
21 t; BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 4 22: Q Can you answer the question?
i ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. INC.
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79 5421 05 07 L1 GJW/sw 1 A Without a careful review of the information that '
)
2 ' is contained in there, I am not in a position to comment as ,
3 to whether or not the site-specific activities required with .
). - 4 i. respect to plants operating outside of the State of New York 5 are contained within the New York State Radiological 4
6 Emergency Plan. ,
)
7 I would have to determine whether or not that is 8 included.
9 Q The answer is you don't know? 3
)
! 10 A I don't know without going through it. .
11: Q Dr. Axelrod, let me ask you to refer back to the 12 State Radiological Emergency Plan, at least assuming again l r 13' that this is an accurate copy of the generic portion of that 14, plan. Please turn to Page III-18, Section 3 of the plan.
15 The number appears to have been copied off of the bottom, 164 but it's between III-17 and-III-19. :
17 !, (The witness is complying.)
_ 7 18P The section --
MR. BROWN: Wait. Pardon me, I don't have a copy 19P 200 and I don't have access to it. Would you wait a minute, e
21! please?
MR. SISK: There is one right here.
l 22L l
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.i 80 5421 05 08 1 GJW/sw 1 MR. BROWN: What page is it, Dennis? I'm sorry.
)
2 MR. SISK: III-18. I believe the witness --
i I
3 '
MR._ BROWN: Is this under Part 3oor --
f
} 40 MR. SISK: Section 3. . I believe the witness has f
, i 5 , found it. ;
6 '
MR. BROWN: Part 2 or Part 1 of Section 3? .l 1
k 7 MR. SISK: It is approximately nne-quarter of the ,
8 way through the bulk of the document. .
9 MR. BROWN: Okay. III, and then what is it?
j i 10 MR. SISK: III-18. The bottom of the page has l
11 not been copied. It ir between III-17 and III-19. l
) 12 The witness found it a couple ,of minutes ago. l i
13 MR. BROWN: Okt.y .
14 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) i 15 Q The caption to that section is "State i Implementation of A County's Plan In Those Instances Where A ,f 16 t
. 17 County Does Not Implement the Plan Itself." l t
18 Are you familiar with this portion of the New j l
19 York plan?
20h A Generally, yes.
21' Q How long has that been in the New York plan? l 22 A I would only be speculating. I don't know how l l
i 1
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,i long it has been there. It has been there prior to this 1 GJW/sw 1_ [
) But, I do not know I 2 N _ edition. I recall seeing it previously.
3 li the precise point in time in,which it became part of the j f,
l 4 plan. [
) f f
5 Q Does this portion of the master plan apply where 6 ei a county fails to provide or implement its own plan? l 1
MR. BROWN: I object to that. It is calling for 7 ,
+
6 a legal conclusion.
9 MR. SISK: This is the Chairman of the DPC.
10 MR. BROWN: I don't think there is any precedent 4,
ll i, for this, though. I'm positive there is no precedent, plus i
it's asking for a legal interpretation. ;
12 '
~
i 13 :. BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
{ :
14 ;i Q Can you answer the question?
15 A I will defer to counsel.
\ i
- 16 9 Q Do you know what this section is designed to deal ,
with, what it does? i 17;i; i
18l' MR. BROWN: Mr. Sisk, I think he just answered I i 4
19 d your question. He said he didn't knott. ;
l i 9
i 20 l! MR. SISK: He deferred to counsel. I l 0 I 21 0 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) ,
i
/ i f
22,F Q Could,you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod?
I i
1 i
ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS, } NC.
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). i 82 5421 05 10 1N MR. ZAHNLEUTER: If you know. ,
.- 1~ GJW/sw. ,
)
' 2 ) THE WITNESS: This plan --this requirement refers 3i to a site-specific response for the DPC and is related to i .,
a l
4W county participation in a site-specific instance.
)
MR. SISK: Dr. Axelrod, I will hand te the 5
6' Reporter and ask him to mark as Exhibit 6 to this deposition I
) 7 i a document of which I tinfortunately only have one copy. !
8 I will read the title, and then I will ask the f
9 Reporter to hand it to you. The document bears the
)
- l letterhead of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. It 10 1
11 y is captioned "Post Exercise Assessment, August 24-25, 1963, u .
l s
Exercise of the State of New York Radiological Emergency I
12 F 13 , Response Interim Plan for Implementing Compensating Measures 14 for Rockland County for the Indian Point Nuclear Power 1
)
15 + Station." It is dated September 26, 1983.
16- (A FEMA document, dated September 26, #
1 I
1983, Post Exercise Assessment, August 17 l 18F 24 and 25, 1983, for Indian Point Nuclear
'.I 19 f.'
Power Station, is marked as Axelrod ;
20lf Deposition Exhibit Number 6 for 21r identification.)
f 2 2 !-
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, 1 .GJW/sw 1 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
)
2 Q Dr. Axelrod, have you ever seen that document 3 before?
Excuse me, Mr. Sisk. I would j 42 MR. ZAHNLEUTER:
) )
like a chance to look at this document. It's unfortunate 5
6 that you only brought one copy with you. It will take a
)
7 moment.
8 MR. SISK: The questioning will be very brief.
i j 9 It is 4:45.
MR. ZAHNLEUTER: It will take a qufck moment to 10 11 quickly review this.
1 -
12 MR. BROWN: Yes, I would like to look with 13 counsel.
14i (Mr. Zahnleuter, lir. Brown and the witneu s are
)
15- looking at the document.)
16- MR. BROWN: Mr. Sisk, to cut through all ths- l l
i
) 17 " preliminary questions, is this the first or the second l 18> Indian Point exercise?
l 19: MR. SISK: I do not know. j s
20h MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Is there a pending question? l l
21: MR. SISK: No, there is not. I've asked the 22' witness -- actually there is, ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS, lNC.
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L 5421 05 12 i BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) !
1 'GJW/sw 1 2 Q I've asked the witness has he ever seen this 3' document before?
i 44 A Yes, I have.
)-
5 Q Dr. Axelrod, was there an interim compensating 6 plan for the State of New York that was specific to Rockland
) f, 7 County?
f 8 A The specific implementing plan was in response to 9 the site-specific plan which had been adopted by the
)
10 Disaster Preparedness Commission for the Indian Point <
i 11 facility.
.) 12' Q And, that Rockland County plan was adopted, was I i
13 it not, when Rockland County it.self f ailed to approve a j l
j 14 plan? :
)
15 A The specific circumstances of Rockland County's 16' activities at the time were very confused, and I would not l t
I 17 Want to characterize the specific actions of Rockland County 18 at the time in which this exercise took place. .
I 19" Q At the time that the exercise took place, was 4
20l! there a State interim compensating plan for Rockland County?
i i
21" A Yes. !
f 22; Q Now, didn't the State REPG draft that i
i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC.
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!5431 05 13 1 GJW/sw- 1 compensating plan? ,
h 20 A The DPC utilized. planning activities'that had ,
3r been carried cut within Rockland County as the basis for i i
)- 4 providing the site-specific activities and defining the role ,
5: for the compensating plan for the DPC at that time.
6 i. Q The State REPG, however, actually prepared that
) interim compensating plan, didn't it?
7 8 A The actual compensating plan as it related to the j 9 required State activities was prepared as a modification of ,
10 an existing Rockland County -- my best recollection is that 11 it was of an existing Rockland County plan fnd was based ;
12 upon the recommendationr and actions that were associated '
13 with the requirements for a Rockland County response. I 14 So that it was part of an existing site-specific
)
15< plan that was designed to address the response at Indian ,
j 16- Point.
l I 17* Q That plan may have been based upon a Rockland j 18b County plan, but it was prepared by Mr. Ned Smith within ;
t 19h REpG, was it not?
20 t! KR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to these questions on 21 the grounds of relevancy. And, I will take a continuing f I
22! objection to these questions about Indian Point and Rockland I
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'5421105 14 1~ GJW/sw 1 a county, especially in this detail.
I BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) I 23 A
34 Q Do you know the answer to the question, j il i Dr. Axelrod? ;
7 4-]" i 5 A I do not recollect who was responsible for -- who 6i within the REPG was responsible for the interim plan. l 7 I would acknowledge certainly that it was done 8 . within REPG, but I cannot identify the persons or person 9 responsible for it other than I would --
)
10 i Q Do you know Ned Smith?
11 $ A Yes. I would be hard pressed to suggest that any J i I 12 [ compensating plan would navo been prepared by a single ,
13 individual; in addition to which my recollection was that i 14 F there were, even at that point, engagements with Rockland
)
15 county with respect to the development of the compensating 16 ! plan.
I a
d 17 F Q Did Mr. Ned Smith work on preparing that plan to t
18I! your knowledge? ;
ii 19 f;i A My best recollection is that he did work on it. !
20 !! Q Now, Dr. Axelrod, returning to the State plan and I
, I 21 l[ the provision I referred to earlier, the one captioned ;
i 22b "State Implementation of A county's Plan In Those Instances 1 i
' ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS, INC.
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)' i 87 5421 05 15 1 GJW/sw 1 ; Where A County Does Not Implement the Plan Itself."
k 2
Does the Rockland plan I just referred to and 3 that is reflected in that Post Exercise Assessment, does ;
4 that reflect an implementation of this portion of the State ;
). .
5 , plan?
6 And, by that I mean the portion on III-18 and
) 7 subsequent pages.
8 A My recollection is that the reference to the 9 State plan which refers to State implementation was related
)
10 to the implementation of the Rockland County participation 11 in a site-specific plan in which there had been a .
I 12 determination that a plan could be prepared.
13 The participation by the State DPC was based upon 14 e the threshold assumption that a plan could be prepared that 15 was adequate to protect the public safety from a 16 n radiological accident at Indian Point.
I 17 Q Dr. Axelrod, could this portion of the State plan ,
i 18 be used for a compensating measure for any county which l ,
i 191. failed to adopt its own plan, including Suffolk County? .
20 il Could this section be used for Suffolk County? l l l
MR. BROWN: Objection. That is the most profound !
i 21: <
22! legal and constitutional question that could be raised --
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88 5431 05 16 i 1 1 MR. SISK: I have asked for his understanding -- ;
GJW/sw I
2
' MR. BROWN: -- in emergency planning in the State <
3 i: of New York.
4I MR. SISK: Based on --
)
5 MR. BROWN: Obviously, it's addressing suffolk l
6> County and Shoreham, matters litigated, that have gone all 7 the way to the Court of Appeals, have been to the Second ,
8 Circuit Court of Appeals, and appropriately should not even 9 be addressed by anyone except counsel.
MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I endorse that objection, and 10 11 also add that it calls for gross speculation. I 12 MR. SISK: Let the record reflect that it is now l
I t
! 13 4:50, and we are encountering more obstructionism which 14 < again I don't understand.
15 MR. BROWN: Mr. Sisk, let the record -- ,
16 MR. SISK: Can the witness answer the question? ,
I i
17 : MR. BROWN: The word "obstructionism" is the 4 i
)
product of your imagination, Mr. Sisk. And, it's not ;
18 e I
19 e necessary for you to raise your voice. i 1
20i; MR. SISK: I did not raise my voice.
i 21: BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) !
l 22 l: Q Dr. Axelrod, could this section of the State l l
l -
l t
! ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. lNC. l Nanonmde cmcrge g ,o;,y ,,pog L
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5421'05 17 1 plan issued by the DPC of which you are Chairman be used in l l 1 GJW/sw l
)
2 order to compensate for a lack of participation by Suffolk l l 3 County with respect to a plan for the Shoreham plant? l 4h A No.
)
5 Q Why not? :
! l 6 A Decause the presumption is that there is a County l l
) 7 plan. There is no assertion that there exists a County i 8 plan.
9 The portion of the plan that you referred to
)
10 identifies implementation of a county plan. And, the 11 determination has been made that there does not exist, and j 1
cannot exist, a County plan. {
12 .
l 13 Q Dr. Axelrod, I wil.' ask you to turn to Page K-9 ,
14 of this document, which is a map.
)
15 MR. BROWN: Is this closer to the front or 16- toward the back?
l 1 17: MR. SISK: Toward the back. It's in Subdivision ;
18 K, K-9, which is one of the last attachments to the f i
i 19: document. !
204 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) I 21? Q Dr. Axelrod, that map depicts --
i 22:: MR. BROWN: I'm sorry. One moment. I don't know i
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2 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l 1
3 , Q The map depicts 10-mile EPZs and 50-mile EPZs for '
i j 4 ,
various nuclear plants inside and outside the State of New l i
i 5 York. I will ask you to focus your attention particularly 4 i
6 on the large circle with dots around Millstone. .
7 Dr. Axelrod, does that large circle which t
i 8 encompasses the 50-mile EPZ for Millstone encompass a 9 portion of Suffolk County in tne State of New York?
10 A It appears to, yes.
Dr. Axelrod, isn't there, in fact, in place in I 11 , Q I , :
12 the State of ' thew York a plan for ingestion pathway responses i 13 within Suffolk County related to the Millstone plant? ;
I .
14 KR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to questions about r
15 Millstone on relevancy.
i 16- THE WITNESS: There is no plan in Suffolk County ,
17 that relates to -- or for Suffolk County that relates to ;
l ,
specific, site-specif'l activities that would be required i 18:
1 tent at Shoreham. ,' -
19 in the event of an as 20! Those site-specific plans which have been l l !
1 21 l: identified for Millstone relate only to peripheral i
22: activities that would be required under the Millstone ,
i I
l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC.
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l 1- GJW/sw 1 . site-specific plan and are not relevant to the Shoreham
)
2 site-specific plan.
3 :t - Q Disregarding relevancy, Dr.'Axelrod, does the ,
)' _
4 State of New York have plans for responding within the ,
s 5 ,b ingestion exposure pathway of tr.e Millstone plant, which ;
6h encompasses a portion of Suffolk County?
MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to the question. It is 7
. based on the premise of disregarding relevancy. Relevancy 8
9 is something that can't be disregarded.
)
10 MR. SISK: Relevancy can be raised later.
q 11 " MR. BROWN: It's not the legal question of r
12 L relevancy, Mr. Sisk. The witness used the word "relevance" 13 1: as a central part of his answer.
l l .i 14 You've asked him to eliminate his answer in s
15 - responding to your next question.
16 t BY MR. SISK: (Continuing)
I 17 - Q Dr. Axelrod, does such a State plan exist?
l l 18- A A State plan for Millstone does not exist. A lI 19 $ site-specific plan that involves portions of New York State ,
{-
e 200 have been submitted by the State of Connecticut to the State ,
1 21P G
of New York identifying the needs for satisfying the F l 22J site-specific requirements associated with Millstone.
n l .
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1 GJW/sw 1 Q Does the State of New York have a plan for !
1
)
2 emergency responses for the 50-mile ingestion pathway EPZ 3
for Millstone which includes all or a portion of Suffolk 4 4 County?
5 -A The State has received from the State of I 6 Connecticut a plan which includes a portion of Suffolk .
) 7 County. ,
I 8 Q Is that document maintained by the DPC?
9 A That document would be maintained by the DPC i
)
10 based on submission of site-specific activities submitted by i
11 the State of Connecticut. l l
12 Q Dr. Axelrod, does Suffolk County have a Disaster f
13 Preparedness Plan that is not Shoreham-specific, to your 14 knowledge?
2 15 MR. BROWN: I object. That's a matter for ,
l !
l 16 Suffolk County to address, not a State witness.
f 17 . BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l 18- Q Can you answe the question? l
\
l 19: A I do not know of the specific nature of a .
I 20t disaster plan. My knowledge of such a plan is predicated 21' upon the Suffolk County's response in the instant emergency i
22 in Hurricane C,loria.
1 ,
ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS, lNC.
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Q Very well. Dr. Axelrod, let me return quickly to 1 GJW/sw !
) i 2 your testimony. Dr. Axelrod, your testimony states at i 3 J.
Various points on Pages 2 through 4 -- l 4 !; 16 Just a minute. I lost my testimony here.
)
I 5 ;, Q That's Exhibit 2.
A I don't have Exhibit 2 here. I have 3, 4 and 6 6i
) !
7 here.
l 8 (The witness is provided with Exhibit 2.)
i 9 THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you. The Reporter had
)
10 Exhibit 2.
i
- 11. BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) l l
12 ' Q Page 2 states, "I am authorized and directed by t
i .
13 Governor cuomo to present testimony to address a .
f t
l 14 c hypothetical situation: what action would New York State 15 take if the NRC were to license Shoreham to operate at ,
16 h levels above five percent power and there were a serious !
I l
17 F accident at the plant that required offsite emergency l i 18i response." ',
I I
, 19 li Now, Dr. Axelrod, specifically let me ask you to ,
' e Assume the following 20 respond to this hypothetical question.
21r facts: The NRC has granted an operating license for ,
I, operation at full power for the Shoreham plant. All ;
22E I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. 1 sanonmoe coserage , j g ,g,,y.,pon
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GJW/sw 1 judicial appeals have been exhausted and the license has ,
)- The 2 been sustained. An accident has occurred at the plant.
3 State is notified by LILCO that an accident has occurred and
)
4 -
LILCO recommends evacuation of the 10-mile EPZ.
5 Let me ask you to assume further that upon ,
receipt of that notification the Governor ordered you to i
6 7 respond to protect public health and safety to the best of f
8 your ability using all the resources, agencies and 9 assistance at the State's disposal.
) .
10 Dr. Axelrod, what would you do?
11 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I object to this question. 10 ,
12 assumes many, many facts that are in dispute and nave been i
vigorously disputed in this proceeding. It also calls fcr 13 14 speculation.
15 And, I will allow Dr. Axelrod to answer, but I 16 will also point out that it is 5 o' clock. S o .- I suggest f l
17 that you accelerate your questioning and we will allow this ,
i But, I 18 to continue for a few minutes because of the break. -
t '
19 P hope that you can wrap up this hypothetical to which I l 20 rt object strenuously in the few minutes that we have extended l 21? this deposition for. !
22.' MR. BROWN: I object more strenuously than that, i
k I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. lNC.
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95 5421 O6 06 1 GJW/sw 1 because it does not assume cr.ly issues in dispute but it
)
2* assumes to be facts something categor.e.11y contrary to the 3 sworn affidavit of the Governor of the State of New York, ,
) 4: which is appended to the testimony of this witness. ;
5 And, I don't think that a question can be ,
6 predicated intelligently upon four or five hypothetical s k matters which are in dispute, none of which have any 7 ,
8 foundation, including the suspicion that somehow
)
9 no: ification could occur and then state thit the Governor 10 would make a direction categorically contrary te what he has 11 said under oath.
i 12 I've never heard such a question before, and I i 13 think it ought to be withdrawn.
14 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 15 Q Can you answer the question, Dr. Axelrod? r 16' A There are so many hypotheticals with respect to l I 17' the scenario which you have described that I would not be 18I able to respond.
19! I don't know whct I would do under the ,
4 20!i circumstances. ,
21." Q Dr. Axelrod, would you be able to employ various
- 22. State resources under that circumstance?
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GJW/sw- 1 MR. Z ANNLEUTER: I object.
) i 2 ,: MR. BROWN: He just answered the question. He 3' ; said he didn't know what he would do. ;
i
) 4l And, now you are going to complain later that you l
- 'l S have no time to ask your questions when you insist on asking i :
6c a question that the gentleman has already answered. ,j 7 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) ,
- 8 Q Can you answer what your abilities would be, 9 whether or not you know what you would do?
10 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I would like a clarification of 11 '. that question. "You" and "your" are personalized terms, and 1
12 r the question needs to be refined. Please refine that j t
13 question. l 14 c BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) 154 Q Dr. Axelrod, what resources would be available to 4
16' you in the event that you were notified of an emergency at
? L i
17 h the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant and the Governor ordered }.
18!! you to respond to protect public health and safety?
i MR. ZAMNLEUTER: I have the same objection as ,
191:
1 20 li before. i MR. BROWN: And, I do, too. This is getting 21E 22r absurd i
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.MR. ZAHNLEUTER: And, it's also repetitive, j
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2 BY.MR. SISE: (Continuing) ,
3 Q Can you answer the question?
4 A Without a site-specific plan and the
).
identification of the specific resources that would be f 5
6 allocated with respect to time, place, event that involve l i
)
7 the codrdination of all governments, I would not be in a ,
8 position to respond-as to the nature or kind of resources 9 that could or would be made available in a hypothetical
)
10 situation.
11 Q And, I assume that that means also you would be
)o 12 unable to identify the time factors that would be needed to 13 employ those resources?
14 A Without any additional information to the extent
)
15 of the hypothetical, I certainly would not be able to 16 identify the time frame in which any response might take I
17' place without knowing what the nature of that response would :
I 18- be or what resources could be mobilized to respond.
f 19r Q Dr. Axelrod, I will ask simply two more questions i 200 that have been prompted by the remarks of Suffolk County's 21 t- counsel. Let me ask you to turn to the appended statement I
22 of Governor Cuomo, to the very 2ast document appended to 4
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~5481 06 09 1 GJW/sw 1 your testitiony, Page-3.
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2 ,
(The witness is complying.)
3 , A okay. ,
4t Q In the middle of that page, Dr. Axelrod, it --
) ,
5o and I'm just going to quote one sentence. "Whatever I would 6>
do at the moment of an emergency would be for the public i I
7 good."
8 Alid , I will vouch for the record that that is in 9 context of the Governor's statement as to his response in 10 the event of an emergency at Shoreham. ,
11 Dr. Axelrod, further down the page there is a i
~
12 quoted statement. And, I'm just going to quote the first sentence of that statement. "of course, if the plant were 13 14 to be operated and a misadventure were to occur, both the i
15 State and the County would help to the extent possible; no 16 one suggests otherwise." ,
' 17 a Have I read that correctly?
i 18: A Yes.
19 Q Is that statement true today? !
Mr. Sisk, I object to this !
20i MR. ZAHNLEUTER: !
i 21f question because, as the Governor's statment clearly says, l 22! this portion of the statement that he made on a previous ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. lNC.
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)' i 5421 06 10 99 1 GJW/sw 1 occasion has beon withdrawn and may not be cited, quoted or j
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2 otherwise relied upon, which is exactly what you are doing.
I 3 MR. BROWN: I want to underscore that I think l j 4 l there is obviously an inappropriate and ulterior purpose in l 5 these questions. '
6 Mr. Sisk, your first question quoting the j 7 "Whatever I would do at the moment of an emergency would be 8 for the public good," conveniently left off the next 9 sentence which is the central point here. And, that 10 sentence stated, "LILCO's plan does not serve the public i
i 11 good, and I would not facilitate the implementation of it."
12 Secondly, it's inconceivable that anyone would quote a sentence which immediately thereafter strtes, "This 13 14 paragraph is being misused by LILCO to create false 15 impressions..." And, then you just precisely do the same 16 thing in the face of the Governor's conclusion that, "I l
17 hereby take the extraordinary measure of withdrawing these 18 words so that they not be cited, quoted, or otherwise relied i
19 C upon." i 20 " You just quoted them and predicated a question 4
i 21 upon them.
22 BY MR..- SISK: (Continuing) !
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1 GJW/sw 1 Q Dr. Axelrod, my question stands. The provisions ;
)
2 that I've just quoted to you in Governor Cuomo's statement, j i
3 ' given all of the objections of counsel, is that statemen:
4h true today?
)
I 5 MR. ZAMNLEUTER: Same objection. !
6 THE WITNESS: The statement contained in
.5 7 Paragraph 3? ,
8 BY MR. SISK: (Continuing) .
9 Q The statement contained in Paragraph 3, let's ask i
i 10 that first. t 11 A There is no question but that the State of New 12 York would respond in a way which would be for the public 13 good. That is the function of government.
14 Q Is it also true that in the event of an accident .
15 at the nuclear power plant at Shoreham, if it were operating ,
16- at full power, the State would respond to protect the public i
17 good?
18i A That assumes a hypothetical which I think we have i l
M clearly indicated is not one that we believe can happen. ,
191 l 20l; The State has made it very clear that it would respond at ,
t 21' all times to the extent that it can to promote the public l
\
22F welfare. And, Icthink that that statement stands as it has t
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101-5431 06 12 t GJW/sw 1 been stated by the Governor.
)
2 ' And, I would -- since the statement with respect 3 e to the misadventure has been withdrawn, I think it would be 1 4 inappropriate for me to comment on it.
5 Q Dr. Axelrod, you stated earlier that'you are 6 testifying on behalf of the Stata and at the direction of T
7r the Governor 'oday. Does the withdrawal of this statement 8 by the Governor indicate that that sentence in Paragraph 4 9 which I've quoted is not true?
10 A I don't think that there is anything in the 11 Governor's statement that suggests that it is not true.
12 What it does is simply enlarge upon what I have already said 13 with respect to any response of government that would be l 14 taken would be taken for the public good in the event of an 15 emergency of any kind.
16 Q can you tell me what that response would be if 17 l there were an accident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant?
18 t A Without the existence of a plan, without the 19 q existence of a clear situation, the question is totally 20 hypothetical. And, I do not know what we would do under any 21l given set of circumstances nor how we would respond, since 22 ' any response would be predicated upon governmental ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. INC.
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'S431 06 13 1 GJW/sw 1 activities and the coordination of governmental activities ,
)
2 for which there is no basis at the present time.
Dr. Axelrod, that question was not how would the ,'
3 Q t
) 4 State respond, but would the State respond in the event of 1
' i 5- an accident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant? ,
6- A I think you would have to be more specific with I
7 respect to respond. I mean, clearly there would be -- there 8 are a whole different layer of kinds of responses that could 9 occur. And, I think that those also relate to the ,
10 hypothetical questions as to what the State might do in any .
11 series of events or in an event.
12 There would be a response. I think the Governor I
13 has made it very clear in the event of any disaster, since ,
14 the primary responsibility is to provide for the public 15 welfare.
16 Q How would that response be implemented? :
17 A That would be a judgment that would depend upon a 18 series of events, actions, and a determination by the !
i j
19 , governmental entities that would be responsible for l 20 h implementing any kind of response. {
21' Q can you identify for me any plans, procedures or ,
22 other means by which such a response could be implemented?
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< 5421 06 14 1 GJU/sw 1 A There is no site-specific response with respect 2 to LILCo. All of the radiological emergency. responses are 3 4 predicated on the existence of a site-specific plan which {
4/ relates-to a variety of governmental entities that must be
(
5 coordinated in order for the public to be properly 6 protected.
7 That does not exist because, as I've indicated to 8 you, it is our belief that no such plan can be developed for 9 Shoreham.
10 MR. ZAHNLIUTER: With that, Mr. Sisk, I regret to ,
11 inform you that the time for this deposition has expired. ,
12 And, as I indicated before, even though it is now 10 after .
13 five, the deposition must be concluded.
14 MR. BROWN: I would like just to ask two or three 15 questions. One minute, two minutes is what it will take.
16 MR. SISK: Let me simply note for the record that 17 I will have a few things to put upon the record when .
18 ' Mr. Brown concludes, because I obviously have not completed 19 LILCO's questioning. ,
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1 GJW/sw 1 CROSS EXAMINATION
)
2 BY MR. BROWN:
3 . Q Dr. Axelrod, am I correct in hearing your i
testimony that you do not know what actions would be taken 4
) I.
I 5 by the State of New York in the event of an emergency --
i 6 A That is correct. ,;
7 Q
-- at Shoreham under the assumption that it would ,
8 be operating under the hypothetical posed by Mr. Sisk?
9 A Yes, that is correct. ,
3 10 Q Number two, is it correct -- have you spoken to 11 the Governor about the two-sentence quotation that is at the ,
i 12 bottom of Page 3 that Mr. Sisk quoted?
l t
13 A No, I have not.
i 14 Q And, do you have any idea what the Governor 15 intends by any of these words at the present tins, 16 therefore? I 17 A No, I do not. j i
18 Q Also, do you have any idea what form and what i
19 actions would constitute a so-called response that would bs 201 for the public good at the time of an accident if such were 21: to occur?
22 A Without a great deal more information with i
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5421-O6 16' 1 .G9W/sw 1 i respect to the hypothetical and a site-specific plan that 2 i incorporates all of the elements of the requirements that we 3 [ have identified, the answer is no.
- 4 d MR. BROWN
- Thank you. That's all I have.
Let me ask simply for the record,
~
1 5s MR. SISK:
6h Mr. Zahnleuter, is it correct that Dr. Axelrod will not be L
7 made available for the continuation of this deposition?
i 8 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: That's right. The time for the 9 deposition today has expired.
10 MR. SISK: And, ha will not be made available on i
11 " any subsequent date by the State of New York?
12 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Are you requesting that he be l 13 made available? I
. I 14 MR. SISK: I am.
I don't see any reason why. I 15 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: ;
16 think that you have had an ample opportunity to depose ,
I 17 P Dr. Axelrod today for two hours. It should have been .
18 i sufficient. i 19$ And, with that I recommend that you pursue l 20 whatever remedies you think are appropriate.
21: MR. SISK: Then, let me make this proffer. But, I
f Mr.
22;i let me ask one other question to counsel for the State.
t 4
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I
) i 106 5421 06 17 1 GJW/sw 1 Oahnleuter, will the Governor be made available for a i
2 deposition or at hearing or cross-examination on his 3 affidavit which is submitted with this testimony?
MR. Z AHNLEUTER: At this time, no plans have been 3
4 5 , made. I can't answer your question any further.
6 MR. SISK: I'm simply noting that the witness was 7 unable, in response to the questions from the Suffolk 8 County's counsel and in response to my questions, to explain And, I had a 9 certain portions of the Governor's statement.
number of other questions which I was unable to get in that 10 11 respect.
i MR. CAHNLEUTER: I disagree with that 12 13 characterization.
14 MR. BROWN: I didn't ask any questions that go to 15 interpreting what the Governor said. Today, Mr. Sisk, for 16 some reason you have persisted in mischaracterizing.
17 MR. SISK: Very well. Let the record reflect that LILCO has a number of additional questions. I have 18 19 c noted some subject matter areas as we went through the 20r questioning that I would have pursued in more detail, i
21' including more detailed questioning on the State 22 Radiological Emergency plan, the content of the Governor's ACE-FEDER AL REPORTERS. INC.
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, 1 5421 07 01 107 1 GJW/sw 1 affidavit and various appended statements which are :
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2 incorporated within the State's testimony.
3 ' There are other lines of questioning which I wish j
+ 4s to pursue with respect to this witness' knowledge of a l 5 review of a prior Radiological Emergency Plan for Shoreham 6 which was conducted by the DPC, which I was unable to get 7 to, and other lines of questioning. .
> 8 I will state for the record that, in LILCO's 9 view, for the State to produce the State's sole witness on l 1
i 10 the realism /best efforts issue and make that witness i 11 available for only two hours and decline at this time to .
12 continue the deposition we believe is unreasonable and 13 insufficient time for LILCO to complete discovery prior to 14 hearing.
15 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Regardless, Mr. Sisk, the 16 deposition is concluded.
17 MR. SISK: Let the -- a final notation. LILCO ,
18 does not agree that the deposition is concluded. LILCO can 1 i
only agree that it wishes to continue the deposition, and we f
19 20 ' will adjourn and request a continuation and go to the Board i
21 if necessary.
I 22 Thank you.
l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC.
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1;_GJW/sw 1 MR .~ ZANNLEUTER: The deposition is concluded. ,
2 .f (Whereupon, the deposition is concluded at 5:12 -
3
, p.m., this same date.)
.4 5- DAVID AXELROD 6
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1 GJW/sw 1 CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC 2 I, Garrett J. Walsh, Jr., the officer before whom 3 the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that ,
4 / the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing 1 5 deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of said ,
6 witness was taken by me and thereafter reduced to -
7 typewriting by me or under my direction; that said 8 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the 9 witness; that I am neither counsel for, related to nor 10 employed by any of the parties to the action in which this 11 deposition was taken; and further, that I am not a relative i
12 or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 13 parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in 14 the outcome of the action. a ]) e g 15 MTtd b . W Als. Tr, d---
7 16 GARRETT J. WALSH, JR. ;
i 17 Notary Public in and for the 18 Commonwealth of Virginia at Large 4
19 My Commission Expires: l 20 January 9, 1989 21 f
l 22 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS. lNC.
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