ML20207A200
| ML20207A200 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 04/22/1987 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#287-3275 OL-5, NUDOCS 8704240113 | |
| Download: ML20207A200 (202) | |
Text
ORfGINAL-Uh11ED STATES O
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-322-OL-5 (EP Exercise)
LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1) 9 .
N LOCATION: HAUPPAUGE,4EW YORK PAGES: 3485 - 3686 DATE: WEDNESDAY, APRIL 22, 1987 -
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CR30616.0 KSW/sjg~ 3485 x 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION A A A D LICENSING BOARD 3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 4 :
In the Matter of: :
5 : Docket Number LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY :
6 : 50-322-OL-5 (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, : (EP Exercise)
Unit No. 1) :
7 ,
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x 8
9 Court of Claims State of New York 10 State Office Building Third Floor Courtroom Veterans Memorial Highway 11 Hauppauge, New York 12 Wednesday, April 22, 1987
{-
14 The hearing in the above-entitled matter reconvened at 15 j 16 BEFORE:
17 JOHN H. FRYE, III, Chairman 18 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission yg Washington, D. C. 20555
~,
OSCAR H. PARIS, Member 20 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 21 Washington, D. C. 20555 i
^
22 FREDERICK J. SHON, Member Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 23 Washington, D. C. 20555 24
! O)
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l 25 -- continued --
l /\CE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ,
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3486
_; 1 APPEARANCES:-
2 On behalf of Long Island Lighting Company:
3 KATHY E.'B. McCLESKEY,_ESQ.
SCOTT D. MATCHETT,'ESQ.
'4 Hunton &' Williams 707 East Main Street
-5 P. O. Box 1535 Richmond, Virginia 23212 6
On behalf of Suffolk County:
7 KARLA J. LETSCHE, ESQ.
SUSAN M. CASEY, ESQ.
8 Kirkpatrick & Lockhart South Lobby, Ninth Floor 9 1800 M Street, N.W.
Washington, D. C. 20036-5891 10 On behalf of the State of New York:
'll RICHARD J. ZAHNLEUTER, ESQ.
Special Counsel to the Governor 12 Executive Chamber, Room 229 State Capitol O' 13 Albany, New York 12224 On behalf of the NRC:
4 ORESTE PIRFO, ESQ.
15 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 16 Washington, D. C. 20555 17 18 19
- !O 21 22 23
( )- 24 25 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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3487 1 CONTENTS 2 WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 3- DENNIS MILETI, MICHAEL PATTERSON, ELAINE ROBINSON, 4
BRIAN McCAFFREY, and CHARLES DAVERIO 5 by Ms. Letsche 3488 6
7 RECESSES:
8 A.M. - 3533 9 NOON - 3580 P.M. - 3629 10 11 12 13 14
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e 30616.0 KSW 3488 1 PRgCgggINgS 2 JUDGE FRYE Good morning. Let's go on the 3 record.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn, please, to page 28 5 of your testimony? This is where you begin to discuss 6 subpart G of Contention 38. I take it.from your testimony 7 that, setting aside the first sentence of subpart G, that you 8 do not contest or dispute the facts alleged in the remainder 9 of that subpart; is that correct?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
11 .MS. LETSCHE: Now, is it your testimony that the 12 news releases referenced in subpart G were distributed to the O 13 media in a timely manner?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, we have conceded that we 15 had an equipment problem, but we do not want to make it more 16 significant than it actually was. .
17 MS. LETSCHE: So you would agree then that they 18 were distributed -- would you agree that they were 19 distributed later than they should have been?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Later than we would have liked 21 them to have been, yes.
22 MS. LETScilEs Now, is it your testimony that the 23 press releases when you distributed them were accurate?
24 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
25 MS. LETSCilE And is it your testimony that those ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC, 202-347 37(X) Nationwide Cmerage N(x)-336-%46
-30616.0 3489 O. KSW 1 press releases when they were distributed were not in 2 conflict with other data in the public domain at that time?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: I'm sorry,.I think in 4 discussing this we've lost track. Would you repeat the 5 question?
6 MS. LETSCHE: Is it your testimony that the press 7 releases when they were provided to the media were not in 8 conflict with other data in the public domain?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right, because of the 10 function served by a hard copy press release.
11 MS. LETSCHE: Now, the LERO news releases that 12 were discussed here don't have any times on then, do they, 13 Ms. Robinson?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
15 MS. LETSCHE: Going to the answer to question 47, 16 which begins on page 29 of your testimony, I want to ask you 17 some questions about that answer. You stato at the end of la that answer that the written news releases are just gravy.
19 Do you see that statement?
20 WITNESS HOBINSON: Yes.
21 MS. LETScilE: I take it from that that it is your 22 opinion that the actual text of EBS messages is absolutely 23 unnecessary for the media during an emergency; is that 24 correct?
25 WITNESS HOBINSON: No.
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KSW j 1 MS. LETSCHE: Is it your position that a written 2 statement of the text of EBS messages is not necessary for 3 the media during an emergency?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, that's not my statement.
5 MS. LETSCHE: You' state in your testimony that the 6 press releases are, in the second line of the answer, you l 7 call them hard copy confirmation of information that has 8 already gone out to the public and the media over the EBS 9 network. It is true, is it not, that during the exercise, on 10 at least some occasions, what was being confirmed had already 11 been superseded by information going out over the EBS 12 network? -
13 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
14 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it it is your opinion 15 that there would be no confusion resulting from that fact; 16 correct? Confusion on the part of the media.
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right. I think they 18 could handle that.
! 19 MS. LETSCllE I take it it is also your position 2
1
- 20 that there would be no confusion on the part of the public 21 caused by that fact; right?
22 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
1 23 MS. LETSCllE Mr. Patterson, do you believe that 24 given this fact, that reparters would not report that i
25 inconsistent information was being provided by LERO?
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1 WITNESS PATTERSON: No, I don't. In fact, given a 2 choice, reporters would much prefer a live interview.
3 Reporters refer to, they use the word " handout" somewhat 4 derisively when talking about press releases. I never met a 5 reporter in my life who doesn't think he can write a better 6 copy than the press releases.
7 MS. LETSCHE: Let's get back to my question for a 8 second. Was it your statement that in your opinion, 9 reporters would not report that LERO was providing 10 inconsistent information given these facts? Is that what you 11 said?
12 WITNESS PATTERSON: I didn't say that.
O 13 MS. LETSCHE: The question is --
14 WITNESS PATTERSON: If the question was were they 15 providing inconsistent information, the answer is no.
16 MS. LETSCHE: That's not the question. The 17 question is in your opinion -- is it your opinion that 18 reporters would not report that LERO was providing 19 inconsistent information, given the facts we have just 20 discussed about press releases being different than what was 21 going out over EDS stations? Is it your testimony that in 22 light of that, reporters would not report that LERO was 23 giving out inconsistent information?
24 WITNESS PATTERSON: No, reporters in Jight of the 25 construct that you construct, which I don't necessarily, may Acn FnonRat. RnPORTERS, INC.
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2 MS. LETSCHE: Thank you.
3 Now, you state at the end of this answer that in 4 any case, the press received all essential information in 5 live news conferences. I assume you mean by that, 6 Ms. Robinson, that they received all'the information 7 contained in the EBS messages; is that right?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: That and more.
! 9 MS. LETSCHE: Now, during the news conferences, 10 did you, Ms. Robinson, ever read or repeat for the media the i '
11 text of any of the ERS messages?
- 12 WITNESS ROBINSON
- By that you mean read the 1
13 entire text of the message?
! 14 MS. LETSCHE: Yes.
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
16 MS. LETSCHE: In fact, isn't it true that in press 17 conference number 3, which was the one that was held between 18 11:30 and 12:00, and the one that was held after the first 19 evacuation recommendation, which was in EBS message number 5, 20 that during that press conference, you didn't give out any of 1
21 the information in the RBS message other than the evacuation 22 recommendation itself with the zones, and a littic bit of ,
23 information about buses and ambulances in response to a 24 question? And if you would like, you can refer to pages 33 25 through 46 of the transcript, which is attachment D to yottr i
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2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Could you repeat your question, 3 please?
4 MS. LETSCHE: Yes. Isn't it a fact that in press 5 conference number 3, which was one that occurred from 11:30 6 until 12:00, and the one which occurred after the first 7 evacuation recommendation, which was contained in EDS message 8 number 5, that you did not give out any of the information in 9 the EDS message other than the evacuation recommendation, the 10 zones that that recommendation applied to, and some 11 information about buses being available and ambulances being 12 availabic in response to a question which appears on page 35,
- 13 and you may refer to pages 33 to 46 of the transcript, which 14 is attachment D to your testimony.
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
16 MS. LETSCllE No, if in fact you did say more?
17 JUDGE FRYE: I think you have to break that down 10 into the specific elements.
19 MS. LETScilE Let's look at EBS message number 5.
20 JUDGE PARIS: Which one?
21 MS. LETScilS EDS message number 5. This is the 22 message, Ms. Robinson, that war on the air prior to press 23 conference number 3; correct?
24 WITNESS HODINSON: Yes.
25 MS. LETScilE: And this message had been -- was
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1 first broadcast to the public at roughly 10:30; is that 2 correct?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Roughly, yes.
4 MS. LETSCIIE : The press conference number 3 we're 5 discussing took place roughly from 11:30 until noon; right?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
7 MS. LETSCHE: Now, during that press conference, O did you ever tell the press that a release of radiation into 9 the area occurred at 9:39?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: I did not, no.
11 MS. LETSCllE s And did you ever mention to the 12 press the advice in that recommendation -- or in that 13 message, excuse me -- that people should refer to their 14 public information brochures to determine which zones they 15 should live in?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: I know I had earlier in the 17 day. I don't know if I did in this particular press 10 conference.
19 MS. LETScilE: During that press conference, did 20 you ever inform the preas, as is stated in paragraph number 3 21 of the EDS mensage number 5, that the reception center and 22 evacuation groups to be used by the evacual.ing public are 23 listed in the Shoreham brochure?
24 WITNESS RODINSON: I would have to read the entire 25 transcrlpt, but I don't believe I did in this preno Acti Fl!Dl!RAl. Riivointins, INC.
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2 MS. LETSCHE: Did you ever tell the press that if 3 anyone was outside planning zones A through M, O and R there 4 was no reason for them to evacuate?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: Again I know I said that at 6 various times. I don't know if I did in this press 7 conference.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Did you tell them durina that press 9 conference that if people were outside the 10-alle emergency 10 planning zone there was no reason to take action?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: Again, that's something we said 12 several times. I don't know if it was in this particular 13 time frame.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Would you 11ke to check?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: If you would like me to read 16 through it, yes.
17 MS. LETSCllE I would like you to answer the 10 question.
19 JUDGE FRYE: Doesn't the transcript speak for 20 itself?
21 MS. LETSCllE Yes, I believe it does, but Judge 22 Frye, if this witness is unable to say what she did or didn't 23 say by referring to that transcript to refresh her 24 recollection, I think the record should reflect that.
25 JUDOF. FHYE: Why don't you refer to the O
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30616.0 7 KSW 3496 1 transcript?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Excuse me. I will take a few 3 minutes to read it.
4 MS. MC CLESKEY: Judge Frye, do I understand that 5 we're going to wait for Ms. Robinson to read 20 pages of the 6 transcript to confirm whether or not something is in the
'7 record? -
8 JUDGE FRYE: We don't need to spend a lot of time 9 on it. I gather there is some question of interpretation 10 here?
11 MS. LETSCHE: I don't think there's a lot that 12 Ms. Robinson says during these pages.
O 13 MS. MC CLESKEY: Are there particular pages that 14 wo might direct Ms. Robinson's attention to? :
15 MS. LETSCIIE: I did. 33 to 46 is where there are 16 some statements by Ms. Robinson during this press 17 conference.
10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I was providing some of the 19 information on radiation press conference to address off-site 20 measurementa --
21 JUDGE FRYE Let's wait for 6 question.
22 MS. LETSCIIR : Thank you, Judgn Frye.
23 WITNESS ROHINSON: I have read 2.
24 MS. LETSCilE You never stated at any time during 25 thnt prean confernnce, did you, that poople outalde the Ace funeral REPORTERS, INC.
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,r) KSW 3497 C) 1 10-mile EPZ had no reason to take any action, right?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Not during this session, no.
3 MS. LETSCHE: You did not state during that press 4 conference the recommendation contained in EDS message number 5 5 that all milk-producing animals in the 10-mile zone should 6 be moved into shelters and placed on stored feed?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
O MS. LETscilE : You did not mention during that 9 press conference that people would be directed along 10 evacuation routes by trained traffic guides, did you?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: I was speaking to the press, 12 not the public at risk. This was a press briefing in the 13 ENC.
14 MS. LETSCllE : Dut you state in your testimony that 15 all essential information war provided to the press during 16 live press conferences, don't you? That is what you say in 17 your testimony.
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: This is being held in 19 discussion with the press. I feel very strongly that that's 20 different than the essential information for the public at 21 risk within the EPZ.
22 MS. LETSCilE Hut you said a minute ago that the 23 essential information you referred to in your testimony on 24 page 29 was the information contained in the EHS messages.
25 Are you changing that?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, we gave them the substance 2 of the EBS message, which was the recommendation for 3 evacuation. I answered questions about the basia for that 4 recommendation. Mr. McCaffrey gave a statement and answered 5 questions on plant conditions, and then as well we answered a 6 number of questions, I answered a number of questions on 7 health facilities, the homebound and we covered the whole 8 concept of evacuation.
9 MS. LETSCHE: While the transcript will speak for 10 itself, did you during that. conference, Ms. Robinson, tell 11 the press the instructions that were contained in the EBS 12 message nunber 5, about prior to evacuation, people should O 13 close doort, and windows and turn off appliances and take 14 blankets and pillows with them because they could be away for 15 several days?
16 6 FITNESS HODINSON: No, I did not. I was speaking 17 to the presu.
10 MS. LETSCllE Thank you.
19 And I take it you also -- you also did not mention 20 anything to the prean during that prenn conference, did you, 21 about the fact that emergency information was containo.1 on 22 postern which could be used by peopic not familiar with the j i 23 area in finding out what zone they were in, did you?
24 WITNESS H0HINSON: I did not, and the reason for l
25 that is that I was not trying to duplicate the EDS nystem, T j
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2 MS. LETSCHE: And basically in the other press 3 conferences, you did not go through and provide information 4 other than basically the protective action recommendations 5 that were contained in the EBS messages at the time, right?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
7 MS. LETSCHE: No, what? No, you did not?
O WITNESS ROBINSON: No, it was not limited to 9 that.
10 MS. LETSCHE: I see. In any of those other press 11 conferences, such as the fourth or fifth one, did you y 12 provide, did you tell the press the information that we just
?
O) 13 -- kinds of information we just went through in EBS message 14 number 5?
15 WITNESS RODINSON: I'm not sure what you are 16 asking me. If you are asking ma did I repeat the total 17 information that lu contained in the various EDS messages, 10 the answer is no. Did I make some judgments about what to 19 give them, the answer lu yes. Where I had updated 20 information, augmented information or information in answer 21 to questiono, that was what I gave them. I did not repeat 22 the EHS mesnages.
23 MS. LETSCHE: And your judgments as to what you 24 should toll the press consistently were you should not toli 25 them the dairy animal recommendation, right?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: It was just -- that was not one 2 of my primary concerns and it never came up in questions.
3 MS. LETSCHE: You never told the press that people 4 outside the EPZ had no need to take action; is that right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: That is not right. We did 6 discuss the limits of the EPZ.
7 MS. LETSCHE: Did you ever tell the press that 8 people outside the EPZ had no need to take protective 9 action?
10 WITNESS RODINSON: I'm certain I did very early in 11 the day. If you want me to find it in the transcript --
12 MS. LETSCHE: I'm talking about after that 13 statement was contained in EDS messages, Ms. Robinson.
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: I did not repeat myself over 15 and over unless it came up in questions. Once I made a 16 statement early on, I did not go back to that.
17 MS. LETSCHE: The answer to my question is that 10 you did not?
19 WITNESS RODINSON: If you are limiting it to a 20 single press conference, it may be right. If you talk about 21 the whole day, no.
22 MS. LETSCHE: You never gave the press informatjon 23 contained Ln the EDS messages about the fact that people 24 might be away for several days, did you?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: No. I don't remember making ACE-FnonnAL RneonTens, INC.
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I that specific statement. I know we talked about recovery and 2 reentry and timing.
3 MS. LETSCHE: Going back to page 29, 4 Mr. Patterson, would you refer for me to the answer to 5 question number 407 6 WITNESS PATTERSON: One moment.
7 I have read it.
8 MS. LETSCHE: I'm going to ask a couple of 9 questions about that. Let's just get some background so 10 we're all on the same wavelength. Referring to the chart 11 here, ERS message number 6 is the message that contains the 12 recommendation that the entire EPZ should evacuate, right?
O- 13 Am I correct on that?
14 WITNESS PATTERSON: I will check it.
15 JUDGE FRYE: I think you could probably accept 16 that.
17 WITNESS PATTERSON: Okay.
10 MS. LETSCHE: I don't want to belabor it, I just 19 want us to be on the same wavelength. EBS message number 5 20 and corresponding press release number 5 was the one that 21 contained the earlier recommendation, which was just for 22 certain zones A through M, Q and R to evacuate, and we've 23 already established that the press releases numerically 24 correspond to the EDS messages, so when we talk about press 25 release number 5, it is the one that has only part of the EPZ ace FEDERAL REvoRTEns, INC.
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6 WITNESS PATTERSON: All right.
7 MS. 1.ETSCHE: I will be talking about that time 8 frame of messages.
9 Now, looking at the chart, it is clear that while 10 EDS message number 6 was being broadcast, telling the entire 11 EPZ to evacuate, what was available in the way of news 12 releases were news releases number 2, 3, 5 -- I'm sorry, news O' 13 releases 5 and 4, right?
14 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes. That appears to be the 15 case.
16 MS. LETSCHE: Now, in fact, news release number 6, 17 which would contain the full EPZ evacuation recommendation, 18 didn't come out until well after 2:00; right?
19 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes, according to the chart.
20 MS. LETSCHE: You say in your testimony here that 21 reporters use these press releases to come up to speed on the 22 events that have taken place prior to their arrival at the 23 news conter. With respect to this particular message we're 24 us.ing as an example here, when any reporter got to the news 25 center any time up to 2:30, he would not be able to use those ACE-FEDERAL REvonTEns, INC.
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1 press releases to como up to speed on what was actually 2 happening, would he?
3 WITNESS PATTERSON: Not from the press releases, 4 but being at the ENC, there would be personnel there briefed 5 informally and at the forr.a1 press conference.
6 MS. LETscilE: That would be what Ms. Robinson told 7 them during press conferences 4 and 5, right?
O WITNESS PATTERSON: Well --
9 MS. LETScilEs Those would be the two press 10 conferences that would have happened during that entire 11 period before press releane number 6 was available, right?
12 WITNESS PATTERSON: Not necessarily. What I mean
(
13 in that, you know, it was discussed at an individual press 14 conference is separato -- reporters get there and the only 15 mode of getting information is not the press conference.
16 MS. LETScilE Also press releases?
17 WITNESS PATTERSON: They all work together, the in press releases and the individuals staffing the ENC. You 19 have to understand the dynamien going on, if I may --
20 MS. LETScilE Maybe we can get these from 21 Mn, Hobinson, nince che wan there. You were not there, were 1
22 you?
23 WITNESS PATTERSON: No, but I looked at the l
l 24 videotapes.
A 25 MS. LETSCllE s Thone are of the prens conferences, l U l
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2 WITNESfi PATTERSON: That's right. I'm familiar 3 with emergency news conters and their procedures. I'm not 1 4 trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to say there are a 5 number of sources. You have technical brieCors, you have 6 other Pios who can talk to the preau and interact with 7 questions. I don't want to get boxed into the situation 0 where a little curtain goes up and a press conference starts 9 and the curtain comes down and ovarything goes dark and 10 nothing happens and there's no free flow of information.
11 MS. LET!ictlE There would be the sorts of informal 12 contactu that Ms. Robinson mentioned earlicr; right?
13 WITNE!iG PATTHRGON: Hight.
14 MS. LETSCllEs Now, you ntato at the top of page 30 15 of your testimony, Mr. Patterson, that in addition to using 16 them to como up to speed on events, that reporters uun news 17 reloauco as a kind of historical record of, diary of events 10 used an resource material to reconstruct ovents. It in trun 19 that reporters are gennrally sort oC constantly calling in to 20 their editorn to utidate what's going on; in that right?
21 WITNEGG PATTHHGON: Yes.
l 22 Mil . LETGCllR 11 0 thin kind of diary or timo linn 23 would ho being kept throughout the event, not just 24 afterwards; right?
25 WITNEliG PATTHRGON: Yos.
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1 MS. LRTScilE Now, in your experience, 2 Mr. Patterson, are reporters generally natisfied to bano 3 their reports on information that has just been broadcast by 4 another reporter rather than getting their own information?
5 WITNE!!S PATTERSON: All reporters like scoops, I 6 quena. All reporters -- it is a competitive situation, but 7 the kny to your question in you said "in this kind at H story." In thin kind of story, I don't think that's a real 9 probinm. It in a givon. It la a major story and the 10 information that -- the most critical information in out on 11 the EI111 network in terms of protectivo action, 80 they arn 12 hearing that, their editors are hearing that. I think --
O 13 M!! . LETSCHR: Lot me focun my question. In your 14 experience, orn reporters natinfled to report in their 15 storios information which they havo recotved only from 16 nomething reported by another reporter?
17 WITNE110 PATTER!10N : No.
10 M11. LET!1CilHe Now, Mr. l'a t t o rn o n , in your 19 oxportonco, would it bo nattutylny -- or nattufactory, excuno 20 mn -- to a reportnr not to havn availablo to him a hard copy 21 text of' Ellu mensagon?
22 W I T N E ilti P A T T E R!i O N : Wei're t alking -- whenther a 23 reportor in happy? 11a ti s t ind?
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1 La not another reporter, firstly.
2 .MS. LETScilE That wasn't my question. The 3 question is --
4 WITNEtiS PATTERSON: I'm saying would he be 5 satistled? That's an amorphoun concept. I don't know how 6 satinfled they would bo in that hypothetical situation.
7 MG. LET!1CilE: Would that not bo one instanco in 0 which a reporter would deem the information he received or 9 convernoly not roccived as botnt) insufficient?
10 WITNEGG PATTERSON: Innufficient in terms of --
11 MS. LRT!icilEs Reforring to your testimony on pagn 12 30, the answer to question number 49, in which you any that 13 Lf a reporter deems the informat.Lon he is receiving 14 innufficient, and it la likely he will, and then you talk 15 about that. My quantion is, woultin't a reporter doom it 16 inuuf ficient if he won not provided with hard copy text of 17 Eliti monnagen?
10 WITNMtiti PATTER! ION: Woll, he might, but an I go on 19 in the touttmony, thnn hn will ask sharp upacific qunntions, 20 and that'n one of the functionn of the ENC.
21 Mil . hKT!!CilHe Right. I take it that it in your 22 teatimony Irom what you say horn it in likely he wi11 find 23 info mation he in rocniving insufficinnt, that you bolinvo 24 that the information provided during the exercitic would havo 2S bonn viewnd an indurticient by reportnru, right?
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1 WITNRSS PATTERSON: No.
2 MS. LRTSCHE: Well, don't you say here "If a ,
- 3 reporter deems the information he is receiving insufficient, [
4 and it is likely he will from sy experience with reporters"?
5 Are you saying that does not apply to what happened during -
1 f 6 the exercise?
i
! 7 WITNRSS FATTRRSON: That answer relates to press
> t i 8 roteases, really. It relates to are press releases i
! 9 sufficient to keep a reporter satisfied, and the answer is
\
) 10 no, and the dynamic of a news center and having people, et f' I
! 11 cetera, et cetera, allows then, will enable a reporter to get l
! l-12 sufficient information and be satisfied.
o 13 MB. LRTSCHR: Is it. your testimony, then, f 14 Mr. Patterson, that what you were referring to horn, in
( 15 saying it is likely that a reporter will deem the information h a
t 16 he is receiving insufficient, to refer to the press releases .
- 17 during the exercises; is that right? I r i 10 WITNRSS PATTRROON
- No, what I say, and from my I !
- 19 experience with reportera, he will ask sharp specific 3 1
20 questions during or af ter the briotings. That's a reporter's j l
j 21 job, asking questionn. [
22 MD. LRTRCilR Are you saying you are no longer 23 espousing the statomont which sayn "if a reporter denas thu !
24 information he in reentving insufficient., and it ist likely hu i
25 will from my oxporinnen with reporters"?
t l !
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30616.O K 3500 O sw 1 WITNESS PATTERSON: We have not -- we're not on 2 the same wavelength.
3 JUDGE FRYE: I think you are passing each other.
4 The question asks whether the reporters would regard news 5 releases as a primary source of up-to-date information, and 6 the answer here is no, and I take it you would attest to that 7 answer now?
8 WITNES!! PATTERSON: Yes, the answer would be no, 9 but I thought I answered that three times, you know.
10 JUDGE FRYE: Ye ss .
I 11 MS. LETSCHE: Now, Mr. Daverlo and Ms. Robinson, 12 you go on on page 30 to say that the allegations in subpart G 13 also don't bother you because of your enhanced copying 14 capability, and the fact that you are going to have the 15 summary sheets available. Now, in fact, thu summary sheet 16 that you are proposing to hand out contains less information 17 than the tuli Ells messages, right?
la WITNK!!!! Holi1NSON: Hight.
19 M11. 1 H T !1 C H H : And the press releasies that you are 20 referring to here which you estill intend to hand out nrn 21 basically the teame type and Cormat that you had during the 22 cxorcino, right?
23 WITNR1111 NOHINGON: And virtually identieni to the 24 Hun, yes, str.
2ti M D . 1. E T !! Cll H e Hight. Ilut tho stummary aheut ist O
Acit 17 ii)ititAi. Riti>oit tiitts, INC, 20214mm m 6onwia, nnerage u n6 ta6
30616.0 3509 O.KSW I what you believe, with your new procedures, will get to the 2 press more quickly than during the exercise, right?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Both would.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Right, but the summary sheet is the 5 one you are relying on as coming over more quickly, because 6 it in just one page, right?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: It will come first and be 8 followed by the press release.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Right.
10 Now, in fact, that means that rather than as at 11 the exercise, at least attempting to get the reporters copies 12 of the text of the EHS messages and the press releases, that 13 what you are now proposing would be to provide them with less 14 material, that is a one-page summary sheet and the press 15 release, right?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: Less paper, same information.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Now, Mr. Patterson, I take it that 10 1t does not concern you that under this new LILCO proposal, 19 the hard copy information available to the press would be 20 even less than was attempted to be provided during the 21 exercise, right?
22 WITNESS pATTERSON: Right. I'm not that 23 convernant with their new plan to say whether there would be 24 lens, but I will ausume it is, and it doesn't concern me that 25 much.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn to page 31, please?
s:
2 Now, Ms. Robinson, you do not dispute the fact stated in 3 subpart H of Contention 38 that the ENC personnel did not 4 inform the media of the content of the 12:00 EBS. message 5 until 12:47.
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: I do not.
7 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, it is correct, is it 8 not, that you made the decision not to go in with an 9 announcement or otherwise tell the press that information 10 after you had it until that press conference which was held 11 at 12:47, right?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
13 MS. LETSCHE: Ms. Robinson, is it still your 14 opinion, as you stated in your deposition at page 97, that it 15 was reasonable for you to put off informing the press of that 16 decision because it wouldn't be printed until the next day 17 for the print media and wouldn't be aired other than by EBS 18 radio stations until the evening news?
19 WITNESS ROBINSON: As I said in my deposition, I 20 used the word "may." I remember that point woll, and I think 21 that is still true. There's no control from the ENC over 22 what any media will do. The only agreements are with EDS 23 stations.
24 MS. LETSCHE: You still believe it was reasonable 25 to wait to inform the press of the full EPZ evacuation O
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306'.6.0 KSW 3511 pJ 1 recommendation for the reason you stated in your deposition, 2 right?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: That is one reason. There are 4 others.
~
5 MS. LETSCHE: You mention on page 32 in the answer 6 to page 54 once again the new procedures that are in revision 7 7. There have not been any changes, have there, in LILCO's 8 procedures concerning when press conferences are to be held?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: Are you talking about on-site 10 procedures or LERO procedures?
11 MS. LETSCHE: LERO procedures.
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, there's nothing about
' specific times.
13 14 MS. LETSCHE: And there is no change in the 15 procedures, is there, as to who it is who decides when on the 16 part of LERO announcements are to be made to the press, 17 correct?
18 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
19 MS. LETSCHR: That still remains the function of 20 the LERO spokesperson; right?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: Based on consultation with 22 other public information officers and the demands from the 23 press.
24 JUDGE FRYE Yes, based on?
- 25 WITNESS ROBINSON
- Yes. That's right.
I I
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1 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, I want to talk a little bit 2 about your testimony concerning subpart I of Contention 3 Ex-38, and that's the portion of the testimony from pages 32 4 to 34. I gather that it is your testimony that the LERO 5 personnel at the ENC, contrary to the allegation in this 6 contention, never did tell the media about the decision to 7 have LERO workers take KI, right?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
9 MS. LETSCHE: And is it also your position that 10 nobody from LILCO told the press that, either?
11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Now, in the answer to question 57,
'- 13 you discuss where you believe the facts contained in or the 14 allegations contained in subpart I may have come from, and 15 you refer to attachment M of your testimony. I think the 16 page that you were intending to refer to was one that was 17 accidentally deleted from your testimony and was sent 18 separately by counsel for LILCO to the parties; is that 19 right?
~
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
21 MS. LETSCHE: That was page 9 of the public 22 support staff log, right?
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: I apologize. I don't have a 24 copy of it. If my attorney can supply it --
25 JUDGE FRYE: Perhaps your attorney can supply all ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 of us.
2 JUDGE PARIS: I have my. copy.
3 MS. MC CLESKEY: We do not have extras with us, 4 unfortunately. We did send it to all parties.
5 JUDGE FRYE: Yes, I know you did.
6 MS. MC CLESKEY: I will be happy to copy them over .
7 lunch if you want to wait until this afternoon, unless you 8 have copies that you can provide, Ms. Letsche.
9 MS. LETSCHE: No, I think it would be helpful for 10 at least the board to have it.
11 JUDGE FRYE The board has one copy of it.
12 MS. MC CLESKEY: It would be helpful for the
\ 13 witnesses. The witnesses are the ones who need to talk about 14 it.
15 (Discussion off the record.)
16 MS. LETSCHE: Let me go through and talk about 17 another attachment. Would you turn to attachment N to your 18 testimony, which is the director LERO log, and to page 11 of 19 that log?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
21 MS. LETSCHE: There's an entry there which I 22 believe is at the top of the page, either 105 or 1305 that 23 begins with " Ira F." Do you see that?
24 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
- x 25 MS. LETSCHE: The Ira F. that is referred to here ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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<- 3514 N_s] KSW 1 holds what position in the --
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: In the exercise, he was the 3 emergency communications director.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Was he located at the ENC?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, he was part of the on-site 6 program. He was at the EOF.
7 MS. LETSCHS: In this director's log, the note 8 says " Ira F. to tell press that LILCO workers will be told to 9 take potassium iodide tablets, not going to print this." I 10 take it that that's the same reference or the reference to 11 the same event which is contained on page 9 of this
, 12 attachment N which everyone has copies of, the 1308 entry on
'- 13 that log; is that right?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
15 MS. LETSCHE: That script says " Ira to inform 16 press workers will be told to take potassium iodide, no 17 official press release." " Ira to inform press," I think is 18 what that says.
19 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes. The conversation was 20 logged on both sides.
21 MS. LETSCHE: Now that was a conversation what, 22 between Mr. Freilicher and you, Ms. Robinson?
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: I never spoke to the EOF or the 24 emergency communications director during the entire
s 25 exercise. The conversation was with the coordinator of i
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< 3515 k,_w) KSW 1 public information in the EOC, and I was not aware of this 2 until after the exercise, until we started reviewing 3 materials for litigation.
4 MS. LETSCHE: You say in your testimony, in the 5 answer to question 57 on page 33, that in that conversation, 6 which I take it is the one on the logs, the subject of 7 whether.to issue a press release on KI to the media was 8 discussed, and it was decided not to issue such a release.
9 Am I correct that that decision was made by the LERO 10 coordinator of public information?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: I would have to say no, that it 12 was a mutual decision. I have spoken to both parties.
13 MS. LETSCHE: But it was Mr. Freilicher the 14 on-site person who initially intended to tell the press 15 before he had his conversation with the coordinator of public 16 information, right? According to the logs?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: I can't answer that. Maybe 18 Mr. McCaffrey has some explanation, because Mr. Freilicher 19 was not dealing with the press until the post-scenario press 20 conference.
l 21 MS. LETSCHE: You weren't involved in this 22 decision, were you, Mr. McCaffrey?
23 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No, I was not.
24 MS. LETSCHE: I take it to your knowledge, 25 Mr. Freilicher didn't inform the press at the EOF or in any r w)
(_
ACE FEDERAL. REPORTERS, INC.
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30616.0 rNKSW 3516 lj 1 informal contacts anywhere else during the exercise about the 2 KI decision, right?
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Mr. Freilicher was not at the 4 emergency news center during the press briefings associated 5 with the drill scenario. He arrived later to do a press 6 briefing dealing with the added scenario issues. I can tell 7 you that in some of our drills where we practice, we have 8 always wrestled with the-idea --
9 MS. LETSCHE: Judge, I would like to cut this 10 off.
11 JUDGE FRYE: The question was,.if I recall it
, _ 12 correctly, did Mr. Freilicher tell the press. Am I correct?-
13 MS. LETSCHE: That's correct.
14 JUDGE FRYE: Did he tell the press that the 15 decision had been made?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No.
17 JUDGE FRYE: He did not. Okay.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, now Ms. Robinson, in the 19 answer to question = number 58, you say that LERO didn't tell 20 the media about the decision to have LERO workers take 21 potassium iodide because that fact does not affect the 22 public, it has nothing to do with the public. Am I correct 23 that the decision not to brief the media on that subject was 24 one made by you?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: In the ENC, yes.
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-30616.0 s KSW 3517 1 MS. LETSCHE: And it was based on this opinion 2 that.you state in your testimony that the fact does not 3 affect the public and has nothing to do with the public, 4 right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Ms. Robinson, do you know what the 7 standards are for under the LERO plan instructing -- or the 8 criteria are, excuse me -- for instructing LERO workers to 9 ingest potassium iodide?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
11 MS. LETSCHE: Well, is it your understanding that 12 the members of the public in the Shoreham EPZ may not have j
) 13 relatives or. friends who are LERO workers?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, that's not my 15 understanding.
16 MS. LETSCHE: And I assume you also know, don't 17 you, that members of that public may themselves have been in 1
18 situations or positions of risk similar to those in which 19 LERO workers found themselves during the day of the exercise, 20 right?
. 21 WITNESS ROBINSON: No. No.
22 MS. LETSCHE: No?
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
24 MS. LETSCHE: It is not your understanding that l 25 certain members of the public might have had to be in the l
J l
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_ V-- f 1 emergency planning zone for a period.of time when they might 2 have potentially been exposed to thyroid doses?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: I believe your question was 4 comparable to the LERO workers. My answer to that is no,.
S that would not be my understanding.'
6 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that your standards for 7 deciding what it is you should tell the media about during an 8 emergency -- and let me rephrase that.
9 That your criteria for making a judgment on what 10 you should tell the, media during an emergency is whether or 11 not in your judgment the information does or does not affect 12 the public, right?
13 WITNESS ROBINSON: One of several, yes.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Now you talk on pages 33 and 34
. 15 about policy of New York State. It is not the policy of New 16 York State, is it, to conceal from the public that workers 17 would be asked or would be told to ingest potassium iodide?
i 18 MR. PIRFO: Objection. She is not competent to
[
19 answer that.
20 JUDGE FRYE: Sustained.
21 MS. LETSCHE: The witness talks here about the 22 policy of New York State, f 23 MS. MC CLESKEY: Judge, the testimony talks about 24 the public published guidelines of when and how KI is given 25 for people or not given to people. It doesn't talk about ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 other opinions of New York State officials.
2 JUDGE FRYE: What is the New York State 3 radiological emergency plan?
4 WITNESS DAVERIO: It is the existing plan for New 5 York State for the five other operating New York reactors 6 within the State of New York. It is a couple of -- I can't 7 remember how many volumes. It is their plan.
8 JUDGE FRYE: If you were allowed to operate, you 9 had to comply with this plan?
10 WITNESS DAVERIO: Our plan is consistent with 11 their plan.
_ 12 JUDGE FRYE: Do you have to comply with their IT
'# 13 plan?
14 WITNESS DAVERIO: That would be a legal conclusion 15 that I don't think I could draw.
16 MS. MC CLESKEY: I can shed some light from prior 17 litigation. The plan that they are referencing is in the 18 record in the 0-3 proceeding, because we litigated the 19 question of whether the public was going to get KI or not 20 under the LILCO plan, and the litigation and the testimony 21 was that we are not planning on distributing to the public, 22 because the state policy is that you don't do that at any of 23 the other plants.
24 What the state plan is in part, and perhaps 25 Mr. Zahnleuter would like to talk to this issue as well, O(~;
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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-30616.0 KSW. 3520-1 since it is his plan, is a compen'ium, d multi-volume 2 compendium, of the local plans plus a state sort of overview 3 plan that talks about how all this fits together, and it is a 4 complex and lengthy document. It is about eight or nine 5 volumes. If LILCO -- presumably if LILCO went on line, it 6 would become part of that plan.
7 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: Judge, I would point out that the 8 New York State radiological emergency plan has absolutely 9 nothing to do with Shoreham. It is not mentioned at all, 10 and --
11 JUDGE FRYE: I guess the question really was is-12 this a plan that is sort of a generic plan comparable'to any 13 plan that happens to be operating within the State-of New 14 York. You are telling me no, it is not?
15 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: No, it is not.
16 MS. MC CLESKEY: I disagree with that. I'm 17 sorry.
18 MR. PIRFO: Staff disagrees with that as well.
19 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: They just told me that it was my~
20 plan, and I have read it and I know it has nothing to do with 21 Shoreham. Whether or not it would apply.to Shoreham is pure 22 speculation. Obviously the parties have differing views.
23 MR. PIRFO: I think you have struck a nerve, 24 Judge.
25 JUDGE FRYE: I think we're getting sidetracked.
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1 MR. PIRFO: Can I reiterate my objection? She 2 asked Ms. Robinson if this is the policy --
3 JUDGE FRYE: Let me. Do you have any idea what 4 the policy of New York is with regard to information of this 5 nature?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: None whatsoever.
7 JUDGE FRYE: I think that settles it. Let's move 8 on.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Now you understand, do you not, that 10 the purpose of potassium iodide is to address potential 11 health effects of radiation exposure, correct?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
k 13 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it that it is your 14 opinion that it is unnecessary for the ptiblic to have that 15 kind of information, right?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: That was my judgment at the 17 time, yes.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Now, Dr. Mileti, in the answer to 19 question 60, you discuss this matter, and I want to ask a 20 couple of questions about that answer on page 34.
21 WITNESS MILETI: I'm there.
22 MS. LETSCHE: The beginning part of your answer 23 relates to a brief unexplained announcement that you then go 24 on to say could lead to some unnecessary or unwarranted fw 25 concern about public health and safety. I take it that the U
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.(x-s) 1 concern there that you are referring to in that sentence 2 would be concern by members of the public; is that right?
3 WITNESS MILETI: Yes, it would include members of 4 the public.
5 MS. LETSCHE: Would it include anyone other than 6 members of the public?
7 WITNESS MILETI: Other people who might have heard 8 it. Obviously, everyone in some role is a member of the 9 public.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Right.
11 I take it that the reason you would characterize 12 concern as being unnecessary and unwarranted is because the (1
13 public shouldn't worry that they would be at risk of the 14 health effects that the potassium iodide are designed to 15 address; is that right?
16 WITNESS MILETI: No, I don't.think so.
17 MS.-LETSCHE: I take it from the remainder of your 18 answer that if an explanation of what KI is, what it does and 19 why LERO workers but not members of the public were being 20 asked to ingest it, was provided to the public, that that 21 would address the problems you talk about in the first 22 sentence of your answer relating to a brief and unexplained 23 announcement, right?
24 WITNESS MILETI: Yes. However, let me just 25 explain for a second. If this announcement were being made, O
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30616.0 KSW 3523 1 'i t would need to be explained, which is what I go into in 2 this answer.
3 MS. LETSCHE: It is true, is it not, that in order 4 to provide this explanation -- let me rephrase that.
5 LILCO could or LERO could provide this explanation 6 to the public by means of a press announcement or a press 7 release, couldn't it?
8 WITNESS MILETI: I wouldn't recommend it. As 9 stated in my answer, if it were going to be talked about<for 10 the public, it should go into the EBS system so it reaches 11 all the public through the channels of information that are 12 focused on expanding the size of the EBS message unduly.
13 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it the reason you believe 14 it needs - it should go into an EBS message is because it
'15 does address this question of risk and health effects about 16 which the.public needs to know, correct?
17 WITNESS MILETI: Partly. I think the answer to 18 the question is no.
19 MS. LETSCHE: You would agree, would you not, that
! 20 this explanation and information about potassium iodide does 21 go to the question of risk and health effects from radiation 22 about which the public needs to know?
23 WITNESS MILETI: We agree that it relates to the
! 24 concept of risk.
i 25 MS. LETSCHE: But I take it you don't believe that I
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30616.0 s KSW 3524 1 the public needs to know it, right?
2 WITNESS MILETI: I believe what the public needs 3 to know in an emergency is what research documents as helping 4 them engage in protective actions. Other issues, 5 philosophical ones, what eventually needs to come out, are 6 not things I address in addressing EBS messages-to maximize 7 public health and safety.
8 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it it is your opinion 9 that information concerning the fact that potassium lodide 10 had been distributed to LERO workers inside the EPZ falls 11 within the category of information that in your opinion the 12 public does not need to know, right?
13 WITNESS MILETI: The answer is it doesn't fall in
. 14 that' category for EBS messages to get the public to engage in 15 appropriate decisions about protective actions.
- i. 16 MS. LETSCHE: And you also believe it should not 17 have been disseminated by way of the news media, right?
18 ,
WITNESS MILETI: I believe if the exercise were a 19 real emergency, the news media eventually would have found 20 out about it and it probably would have been explained at the 21 ENC.
22 JUDGE FRYE: Your answer is no?
23 WITNESS MILETI: That's correct.
24 MS. LETSCHE: Didn't you say a minute ago you
^
25 would not recommend releasing a -- LERO releasing this 4
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1 explanation that you discuss in your testimony by way of a 2 press conference or press release?
3 WITNESS MILETI: Yes, I did.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Now, Ms. Robinson, in the answer to 5 question number 61 on page 34, you disc'uss what LERO would do 6 if a reporter at the ENC asked about potassium iodide.
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
8 MS. LETSCHE: And you say it is LERO's policy to 9 answer questions about KI if such questions are asked. Is 10 that policy stated anywhere in the LILCO plan?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: There are unwritten policies as 12 well.
(~
13 MS. LETSCHE: Does that mean it is not stated 14 anywhere in the plan?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, it is not written in the 16 plan.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Am I correct that you understand the 18 LERO policy to be not to discuss issues involving KI unless 19 expressly asked by the media?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
21 MS. LETSCHE: I would like to discuss for a while 22 your testimony concerning subpart J of Contention 38, w'tich 23 involves the press conferences during the exercise. And that 24 testimony runs for a long ways but begins on page 35.
4 25 Mr. Patterson, you have reviewed the videotapes of 4
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- n KSW 3526 1 those press conferences which were conducted during the 2 exercise, right?
3 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
4 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it you have reviewed the 5 transcript attached to your testimony, which is a transcript 6 of those press conferences, right?
7 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
8 MS. LETSCHE: And the opinions which you state in 9 this portion of the testimony about what happened during 10 those press conferences is based on your review of the 11 videotapes and of the transcript; is that right?
12 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
O'
'- 13 MS. LETSCHE: You discuss on page 35 in the answer 14 to question 65 that your review of the videotapes, reading 15 the transcript, made it clear that a few of the reporters 16 became somewhat disgruntled over the fact that they were not 17 being given detailed information, and you go on to taJk about 18 that a little bit. I assume you would agree, Mr. Patterson, 19 that during a real emergency, if reporters believed that they 20 were not being given detailed information on events about 21 that emergency, that they would also become disgruntled?
22 WITNESS PATTERSON: Disgruntled, frustrated, and 23 reporters tend to be disgruntled and frustrated if they are 24 hard-working reporters. There's never enough information.
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: A real emergency would not be O
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1 limited by the scripted information in the scenario.
2 MS. LETSCHE: I'm going to be addressing my 3 questions for a while, Mr. McCaffrey, to Mr. Patterson and 4 Ms. Robinson, who sponsor a lot of this testimony. I would 5 prefer to stick with them, if you don't mind.
6 Mr. Patterson, isn't it true that as reporters get 7 disgruntled or frustrated, they become more aggressive in 8 seeking out information by asking questions?
9 WITNESS PATTERSON: No.
10 MS. LETSCHE: No?
11 WITNESS PATTERSON: Well, by way of explanation, 12 may I just -- they are agressive coming into it. I don't 13 think that necessarily makes them more aggressive. That's a 14 psychological question. I'm not a psychologist. Some are 15 going to be more aggressive than others. You will find as 16 many variations as you find people carrying press cards.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn to page 36 of your 18 testimony, please?
19 WITNESS PATTERSON: I'm there.
20 MS, LETSCHE: In the answer to question number 66, 21 you discuss how you believe reporters would act in a real 22 emergency. Now you say there that -- the way I'm reading 23 this is that reporters would in a real emergency be more 24 aggressive than they were during those press conferences 25 during the exercise; is that right?
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1 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
2 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that by being more 3 aggressive in seeking out specific information by asking 4 questions, you mean they would have asked more questions?
5 WITNESS PATTERSON: Well, the next sentence af ter 6 the one you just referenced goes on to say that to elaborate, 7 they would have colleagues in the field reporting in to their 8 editors' desks what they were observing, et cetera, et 9 cetera. The aggressive I meant in the answer, and it could 10 have been maybe made clearer, was that the neus organizations 11 in a real situation will cover it more aggressively and in a 12 drill, more interacting and more realistic, t
13 MS. LETSCHE: I have read this whole answer and 14 maybe you should read it too, because then we would be on the 15 same wavelength. Rather than going through it line by line, 16 I'm trying to summarize a little bit and get things taken 17 care of a little more quickly.
18 WITNESS PATTERSON: Do you want me to read through 19 it?
20 MS. LETSCHE: Why don't you just skim through it?
21 I think that would expedite things.
22 WITNESS PATTERSON: Sure.
23 MS. LETSCHE: All right, you talk in this answer 24 about reporters being more aggressive and reporters not being 25 as passive as they were during the' exercise. Am I correct ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 that in general what you are saying is that during a real 2 event, reporters would have asked more questions and would 3 have asked them in a more aggressive manner than was done 4 -during the exercise?
5 WITNESS PATTERSON: They certainly would have 6 asked more questions. I think where you and I got hung up 7 was on the passive / aggressive. I don't mean it in a 8 psychological personality sense. I mean it in a how the 9 organization of reporters acting, in that kind of sense. So 10 I would premise it with that. The answer is, I think to your 11 question is yes.
12 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it as a result of a 13 reporters having their colleague out in the field giving them 14 other information or people in helicopters giving them 15 information, that they would have been in a position to ask 16 very specific questions of the LERO spokespeople, the LERO 17 spokesperson, at a real event; is that right?
18 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
19 MS. LETSCHE: And they would have been aware of 20 any inconsistent information that was being given out by LERO 21 personnel by whatever means, whether it was EBS or at the 22 news center, right?
23 WITNESS PATTERSON: They would have been aware, 24 yes.
25 MS. LETSCHE: And that would undoubtedly have O
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1 gotten into some of their questions to the spokesperson, t
2 right?
.t i
3 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes. There would be a lot ,
1 4 more interaction between reporter and spokesman, and that's 5 to the good.
6 MS. LETSCHE: And that interaction would have- '
7 likely involved any inconsistencies or contradictions that 1
8 the reporters were aware of as a result of having their 9 colleagues out in the field or listening to-the EBS messagec 10 or whatever, right?
11 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.- That's one of the 12 purposes, to clear up, clarify, amplify. A spokesperson - -
J 13 in other words, I don't have the answer to that but now if _
4 14 you want it, I will try to get it if it is gettable.. That 4 15 kind of thing.
16 MS. LETSCHE: So in general, if we're comparing
!' 17 the exercise to what would have happened in a real emergency, 18 would you agree that the LERO spokesperson would have had to I
i 19 have had access to a lot more information than was required i
20 during the exercise?
21 WITNESS PATTERSON: No, I don't agree with that.
, 22 I think she had access to all of the information points that i
23 she would need. In other words, she was in contact with the 24 EOF. That's where you determine, you know, she would have
! 25 contacted the response managers. I think what was missing in L
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1 any kind of drill is because of the artificiality of it, I
2 because-they are prisoners of the scenario, reporters as well .
3 as the people in the drill, they have to deal with that.
f 4 One of the frustrations when I mentioned 5 disgruntled, I recall it on tape, several of the reporters at
! 6 least in my opinion were more frustrated with what they felt 7 was an artificial scenario, example, "do you mean to tell me 8 only one truck turned over in that whole 10-mile EPZ" kind of 9 situation. Toward the end of the day, watching the tapes, i 10 that kind of frustration was creeping into it. It was an 11 artifact of just the collapsed telescoped time and the fact c
12 that it was a drill.
13 WITNESS ROBINSON: I just want to correct quickly 14 one thing Mr. Patterson said. He is not part of our plan. I l
15 was in contact with the EOC, not the EOF.
16 MS. LETSCHE: Mr. Patterson, you answered my 17 question, but when I heard the answer, I realized the -
18 question was not the one I wanted to ask, so let me ask the o
19 one-I wanted to ask.
20 Would you agree with me that in comparing the
- 21 exercise to what would happen in a real event, that the
.22 .spokesperson in the real event would have had to provide more 23 information to the press than she was required to provide 24 during the exercise?
t 25 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes, but I think that would O
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<3 KSW 3532 I have happened because questions generate the ability to get 2 answers, you see. You can't get an answer without a question 3 sometimes, and the spokesmen are expected to be omnipotent.
4 That's one of the functions.
5 MS. LETSCHE: In terms of what was shown during 6 the exercise, what's in the videotapes and in the 7 transcripts, that is the information the spokesperson was 8 required to provide, that would be substantially less as a 9 practical matter than she would be required to provide in a 10 real accident, right?
j 11 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Now, in the answer to question 67, 13 which begins on page 367 and carries over to page 37, you 14 say, Mr. Patterson, that the spokesperson did as well as 15 could be expected given the constraints that the exercise 16 imposed on the information she possessed, and then you go on
- 17 to explain that.
10 Part of your explanation is that if questions were 19 not asked, additional information was not provided. Is it 20 your understanding that the purpose of the ENC and the LERO ,
21 spokesperson is merely to answer questions?
22 WITNESS PATTERSON: No.
23 MS. LETSCHS: In fact, one of the purposes is to 24 be an affirmative giver of information, correct?
25 WITNESS PATTERSON: Yes.
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30616.0 KSW 3533 1 MS. LETSCHE: Judge Frye, I'm getting ready to ,
2 start a new line of questioning. This would be a good time ,
3 to take a break.
4 JUDGE FRYE: Let's take a 15-minute break at this 5 point.
- 6 (Reces s . )
7 JUDGE FRYE Back on the record.
j 8 MS. LETSCHE: Would you all turn to, or 9 Ms. Robinson, would you turn to page 38 of your testimony, 10 please? In the answer to question 69, you discuss your 11 responses to evacuation-related questions.and you refer to a
} 12 chart which is attachment Q to your testimony. Let's turn O 13 back there and talk about that, okay? [
i
- 14 WITNESS ROBINSON
- Excuse me just a moment. This i !
- 15 is very small type and I need my glasses. I'm sorry. '
t 16 MS. LETSCHE: It is small type. f
,' 17 Now, this attachment Q is basically excerpts out ;
18 of the transcript, which is attachment P, that have to do 1
19 with evacuation-related subjects. Is that what it is? ;
! i i
i 20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
i l 21 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that this attachment Q was
! 22 prepared by you or under your supervision; is that right? i i 23 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right, i
24 MS. LETSCHR: And this attachment Q includes 4
25 material in addition to what might have been in the press f
4 i i
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1 conferences that you gave to the press in the unsolicited 2 briefings, right? You say that on page 30 of your 3 testimony?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes, those are the -- what that 5 says is that those are the answers from the transcript, and 6 then there were also unsolicited questions, but those could 7 not be transcribed because that part of it was not taped.
8 What you have in Q are the excerpts from the transcript.
9 However, there were other inquiries that came in either af ter 10 the press briefings or between the press briefings which were 11 not taped, so there were other questions and answers.
12 MS. LETScilE In your testimony, you say we have p
O 13 compiled in a chart all the questions and answers from the 14 transcript touching upon evacuation or traffic issues, in 15 addition to any other unsolicited briefings that I gave on 16 those topics.
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Are you saying Q does or does not 19 include the unsolicited briefings?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Let me start over from the 21 beginning. I think we're missing.
22 This is from what was recorded on tape so that it 23 could be transcribed. There were in addition other quus:tions 24 that other reporters asked.
I 25 MS. LETSCHE: But the unsolicited briefAngs in the v
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30616.0 m XSW 3535 1 forms of announcements were also transcribed, right?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
3 MS. LETSCHE: And those are included in your 4 attachment Q, right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, this appears to be just the 6 questions and answers. Oh, yes, no, I'm sorry. I see now.
7 Taere are several where there were unsolicited statements.
0 You are right.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Now, I would like to direct your 10 attention to the heading " News Conference 2" on the first 11 page of attachment Q. From 9:50 to 10:20. There's a 12 question there, or it says " voice," which I assume means a O 13 question, which says, "Now, if you are saying that people 14 on-site should be evacuated, wouldn't that automatically mean 15 anyone whose homes are right on the border of the plant would 16 also be evacuated, yet you say no decision has been made?"
17 Just so we have ourselves in context here, at the time of 18 this news conference at 9:50, EBS message 3 was on the air, 19 which said there had been a site area emergency but that no 20 recommendations had been made at that point; is that right?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct. That was my 22 answer.
23 MS. LETSCHE: Right. Now, your answer to this 24 ques tion, which was the of f-site portion, that says as of 25 right now there are no recommendations to the public other O
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1 than to stay tuned to their EBS systems and await public 2 action recommendations. On-site actions do not automatically 3 trigger protective action recommendations off-site. There's 4 no direct correlation.
5 I take it that it is your belief that that answer 6 was an adequate and satisfactory response to the question 7 about why people off-site but near the border of the plant 8 had not been asked to evacuate; is that right?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: Nobody off-site had been asked 10 to evacuate. Only on-site.
11 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that your belief as stated 12 in attachment Q is a satisfactory and accurate answer or 13 satisfactory and adequate answer to the question which 14 appears on attachment Q about what people whose homes are by 15 the border of the plant should do; right?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, would you go to the third page 10 of this attachment? I'm going to ask some questions about 19 item number 3 on that page. Before I do, let's establish 20 where we are in the time line here. This question and answer 21 took place during news conference number 3, right?
22 WITNESS ROBINGON: That's correct.
23 MS. LETSCHE: That's the one which took place from
} 24 11:38 until 12:00, right?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
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- KSW 3537 1 MS. LETSCHE: And at that time, EBS message number 2 5, which contained the recommendation that people in zones A 3 through M, Q and R evacuate was being broadcast, right?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
5 MS. LETSCHE: Now, question number 3 on this page 6 during the third press conference asks if there have been any 7 breakdowns,.any accidents. The question speaks for itself.
8 Your answer 'was, . "I am being asked about traffic conditions 9 on the telephone. As of now we have no reports of blocked 10 roads of any major blockages. We expect traffic-to be heavy, 11 and it is, but there are no blocked roads."
12 In fact, it is the case, Ms. Robinson, isn't it, 13 that as of 10:40 and 11:00 a.m., the impediment messages had 14 been input at the EOC?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: I believe that's correct. I 16 would have to check the times with Mr. Daverlo.
17 Roughly, yes.
18 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, at approximately a 19 little bit after 12:00, FEMA had done its prompt of the 20 people at the EOC about those two impediment messages, 21 right?
22 WITNESS ROBINSON: Again, I believe that's true.
23 MS. LETSCHR: And as of this time during this 24 press conference, you were not aware of any of that, right?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
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30616.0 e~s KSW 3538 i MS. LETSCHE: Would you go to page 4 of attachment 2 Q, please? And I'm going to ask you some questions about 3 item number 1 on that page, which relates to news conference 4 number 4. That took place between 12:47 and 13:07. Now, at 5 that time, I believe ERS message number 6 and perhaps during 6 that press conference EBS message number 7 were being 7 broadcast, right? >
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think that's correct.
9 MS. LETSCHE: And 6 was the one that told 10 everybody to evacuate?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
12 MS. LETSCHE: And 7 repeated that but had the dose
(~t N- 13 information. I think that was the major change in 7.
14 Now, in this news conference, you in response to a 15 question, " fill us in on all of the people on the roads,-what 16 is their status," you discuss, you respond and one of the 17 things you talk about is a major traffic tieup involving'the 18 gravel truck, right?
19 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
20 MS. LETSCllE: And you say there was a disabled 21 gravel truck, it has been removed by heavy equipment.
22 In fact, as of 12:45, at the time of this 23 announcement, I think we already established the EOC knew 24 there were two traffic impediments at that time, right?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think that's correct, yes.
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g3 30616.0 s KSW 3539 1 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, the gravel truck was C 2 not removed or simulated to have been removed during the 3 exercise until about 1:30 or sometime after that, right?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON:- Again, I would have to check 5 with somebody on that time. I don't remember that one at 6 all.
7 WITNESS DAVERIO: I can't recall either if.that's 8 the correct time.
9 JUDGE FRYE: It is certainly.in the record.- We've 10 heard a lot about the gravel truck.
11 MS, LETSCHE: I think that's correct.
12 I take it, Ms. Robinson, h'ad you been given.
\ J 13 information which led you to beli$ve that that gravel truck 14 had in fact been removed by heavy equipment prior to this 15 press. conference?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: .I.think we have established.
4 17 that there were some serious lapses in dealing with those
-18 impediments.
19 'MS. LETSCHE: -My question is --
20 JUDGE FRYE: Had you been informed that it had 21 been removed at the time?
t 22 WITNESS ROBINSON: I would have to check the log, 23 but I believe so. There was a message at noon, and then 24 another.one at 12:11 about the grave] truck. And then a 1
i 25 message did come into the ENC, there's something in the i /\CE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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130616.0 3540 0KSW 1 'public information log at 12:57 that the gravel truck -- that 2 I think the abbreviation is continuing problem where gravel 3 ' truck, but of course that was when I was out on the -- doing I
4 the briefing, so I would not have had that information until 5 after the briefing.
6 MS. LETSCHE: The messages that you referenced at
! 7 noon, at 12:11, what messages are those? Who are they from-8 and to?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: They are from various logs.
10 The first was for a message from within the EOC.
11 MS. LETSCHE: How did you get that over at ENC?-
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: At 12:11 there was a call over
's 13 to the public information office.
14 MS. LETSCHE: I'm sorry -- -
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: From the the EOC to the ENC and 16 it was recorded-in the public information log.
i 17 JUDGE FRYE: That was the 12:00 or --
18 WITNESS ROBINSON: -12:11.
19 MS. LETSCHE: At 12:11 the EOC called the ENC and a
20 said the gravel truck had been removed?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: I have just been advised that 22 some of this information is collected in a later contention 23 under 38-L. That references the 12:11 call from tbe EOC that 24 the gravel truck had been removed.
25 MS. LETSCHE: You are referring there to your ace. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 testimony on page 43; is that right? Is that what you were 2 talking about?
_s 3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
. j, 4 -
MS. LETSCHE: There you refer to a 1211 entry in 5 the public support staff log?-
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
7 MS. LETSCHE: In this part of your testimony, you 8 reference attachment M for that, but I don 't believe it is 9 anywhere in your attachment M. The 12:11 entry. It sounds 10 like you have the whole log-up there with you, right?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: Let me just see. No, it is not
,_ 12 in the attachment M.
\- 13 MS. LETSCHE: But you have the log up there with 14 you, don't you?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: I'm using the handwritten 16 compilation that I made for myself in preparing.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Let me give you a copy of the public 18 information support staff 109 Is the document I have given 19 you the public information support staff log which you refer 20 to on page 43 of your testimony?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: I believe it is.
22 MS. LETSCHE: And it 18 the same log we were just 23 talking about with respect to-the 12:11 entry reflecting a 24 phone call between the ROC and the ENC, right?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, I'm sorry . This is the log O~s .
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1 for the EOC. This is the one that was in the EOC. There was 2 also a log kept in the ENC for public information staff which 3 had the times when information arrived at the ENC, and I'm 4 sorry about the confusion, but that's two different logs.
5 This is the log that's referenced in attachment M, yes. This 6 is the log that was at the EOC.
7 MS. LETSCHS: Wait a second. We're getting very 8 complicated here. On page 43 of your testimony, you say the 9 referenced entry appears at 12:11 in the public information 10 support staff log. See attachment M, right?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right, and --
12 MS. LETSCHE: Wait. Let's try to do this by
13 question and answer so the record is clear. Attachment M of 14 your testimony, first page, position 35, public information 15 support s taf f, right?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
17 MS. LETSCHE: The only page that follows it in 18 attachment M to your testimony is page 2, and does not 19 ,
contain a 12:11 entry, right?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
21 MS. LETSCHE: I handled you a document entitled 22 " position 35, public information support staff" and contains 23 14 pages; is that right?
24 WITIECS ROBINSON: That's right.
25 MS. LETSCHE: Is that the same log which you refer p)
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v 1 to.on page 43 and an excerpt-ot which is contained in 2 attachment M of your testimony?
3 WITNESS ROBINSONt Okay, the answer is yes.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Ant on page 7, carrying over to page
! 5 0 of the public information support staff log which I have 6 handed to you, there is an entry for 12:11, right?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Can you read into the record what 9 that 12:11 entry says?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: " Traffic in Yaphank Middle 11 Island Road North, main street, gravel truck broke down, is 12 being removed."
13 JUDGE FRYE: Is being removed?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
15 MS. LETSCHE: That's the referenced entry that you 16 discuss on page 43 of your testimony at 12:11, right?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Also the one referenced in subpart L 19 of Contention 38, right?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
21 MS. LETSCHE: That's also the entry which 22 constituted the information that you had when you made your
., 23 announcement at press conference number 4, saying that there 24 was a disabled gravel truck, it has been removed by heavy 25 equipment, right?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
2 MS. LETSCHE: And you go on to say in your 3 announcement, back on attachment Q, on page 4, that you don't 4 know yet whether the backup that the gravel truck has caused 5 has been cleared up, but the evacuation is back in progress 6 along that road, right?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
8 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that's also based on the 9 information in this public information support log which we 10 have been discussing; is that right?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: That plus telephone 12 conversation, yes.
- t. ;
13 MS. LETSCHE: By telephone conversation, are you 14 referring to any conversation other than the one reflected in 15 this log?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: I held and other people held a 17 number of conversations checking information back and forth 18 with the EOC. The communicator logged these calls. I did 19 not log all of my calls.
20 MS. LETSCHE: So you had other conversations which 21 led you to state during this press conference that the truck 22 had been removed and that the evacuation was back in progress 23 along that road, right?
24 WITNESS ROBINSON: That was the information I had 25 at that time, yes.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: My question was there were other 2 conversations which provided you that information in addition 3 to the one reflected in the log that we discussed, right?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
5 MS. LETSCHR: Now, at approximately 2:00 or a 6 little bit after, around 2:00, Ms. Robinson, EBS messages'8 7 and 8.1 were first broadcast to the public, right?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: I guess 8 was just before 2:00, 9 and both of them just before 2:00.
10 MS. LETSCHE: And both those messages contained 11 information about traffic tieup, right?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: Let me just check. 8.1 does Oi 13 and so does 8. Yes.
14 MS. LETSCHE: In fact, both those messages advised 15 people not to use -- to try not to use the Yaphank Middle
'16 Island Road due to a multiple vehicle accident at the 17 intersection, right?
18 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
19 MS. LETSCHR: Would you turn two more pages.from 20 where you were on attachment Q, which is the page headed 21 " News Conference 5"?
22 JUDGE PARIS: Can you give us the page number?
23 MS. LETSCHE: Page 6.
24 JUDGE PARIS: Thank you.
25 MS. LETSCHE: Now, this is not the news conference O
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,KSW 3546 1 that was held from 1:45 until 2 -- 1:48 to:-2:02, correct?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Correct.
3 MS'.-LETSCHE: This was after the entire EPZ had 4-4 'been advised to evacuate, but before the EBS messages, or it 5 ended at about the time the first EBS message went out-6 concerning the traffic impediments, right?
7 -WITNESS ROBINSON: Approximately.
8 MS.-LETSCHE: And you. discuss during this press d
9 conference the fuel truck traffic blockage?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
11 MS. LETSCHE: Now, you'were asked some questions 12 that are shown here on attachment Q, what was the blockage, 13 and it just broke down or is-it overturned, and your_ answers 14 appear under item number 1 on the right-hand side, but the i .15 real fact was that you didn't really know whether there had 16 been a fuel spill or whether the truck had overturned, did 17 you?
18 WITNESS ROBINSON: The answer is no, and the i
19 explanation for that is this was a scenario, and there were 20 no independent sources of that kind of detailed information.
21 This is I think a perfect example of where in a real 22 emergency I would have been able to much more easily get that i
23 information.
24 MS. LETSCHE: But the information you had received 25 had been given or had tried to get through your phone O t ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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I contacts or your communicators or whatever did not give you 2 the information about whether or not there had been a fuel 3 spill or whether or not the truck was overturned or whether 4 it was blocking the roadway or any of those details, right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, at that point we had not 6 gotten to that level of detail.
7 MS. LETSCHE: You at the ENC had not gotten that 8 level of detail, right?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
10 JUDGE PARIS: What information did you receive 11 about the gravel truck at this point?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: Are we back to the gravel truck
('
'- 13 or the fuel truck?
14 JUDGE PARIS: The fuel tanker. It is apparent 15 that you were unaware that it had turned over.
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct. The 17 information I had been given was that it was down and that it 18 was blocking the road, and I wanted to get out as much 19 information as quickly as I could about the rerouting of the 20 traffic and exactly where it was located, so I went out 21 rather than trying to follow up on any of those details at i
22 that point.
23 JUDGE PARIS: This is the message you received 24 from the EOC, that it was just down?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
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1 JUDGE PARIS: It didn't say down how?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
3 MS. LETSCHE: It is true, isn't it, that during 4 the exercise, neither personnel at the ENC nor public 5 information staff at the EOC had any contact with traffic 6 guides out in the field, right?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
8 MS. I.ETSCHE: And in fact, during the exercise, 9 the traffic guides only had contact with the staging areas, 10 and the staging areas were too busy to give ENC personnel 11 information about traffic conditions, right?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: I will have to let Mr. Daverio l
l')
' 13 answer that question.
14 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's not true.
15 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn, please, to 16 attachment -- supplement to attachment M, which your counsel 17 filed separately, and which we went out and got copies of 18 before the break, page 9 of the public information support 19 log?
20 It says, does it not, at the top of the page, an 21 entry which I can tell you looking at the prior page was at 22 12:57, that the problem is we do not have direct contact with 23 the guide. Guides have radio contact to staging areas, which 24 are too busy to give us any information.
25 WITNESS DAVERIO: I see that statement. That O
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1 doesn't mean it is correct. The traffic guides, their radio 2 frequency is also herded to EOC, which we testified during 3 the planning hearings and in other places. They can monitor 4 the discussions of the traffic guides at the EOC. That's the 5 only reason I disagreed, Ms. Letsche.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Let me restate the question. The 7 question went to the ENC. Maybe I might not have said that.
8 I intended to mean the ENC and the public information staff 9 at the EOC. Neither one of those people or job categories or 10 whatever you want to call them have communication ability 11 with the traffic guides, right?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: Based on what Mr. Daverio just
'Y 13 said, the answer is no. Yes for the ENC and no for the EOC.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Isn't it true, though, Ms. Robinson, 15 that with respect to information being available to the 16 public information support staff or ENC personnel during the 17 exercise, that the staging areas were too busy to give you 18 any information about what the traffic guides were doing?
19 WITNESS ROBINSON: I would think that in terms of 20 the staging areas that's a distinct possibility, yes.
21 MS. LETSCHE: That's what the public information 22 support log says, isn't it?
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
24 MS. LETSCilE It says right near the bottom of the 25 page, under the 13:27 entry, " primary concerns of staging L,-
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3 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Basically you didn't have access to
[ 'S - information about traffic coming from'either the staging 6 areas or the traffic guides during the exercise, right?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: Wrong.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Other than the information'we have ,
9 seen in the public'information support log about the gravel 10 truck and the fuel truck, are you saying that you had i 11 additional information about either of those impediments or 1
, 12 traffic related to them during'the exercise?
I '
13 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes, at other times, ,
i 14 certainly.
i.
f 15 MS. LETSCHE: I'm talking about this general time 1
16 frame, Ms. Robinson, from roughly 12:00 until roughly 2:00 or 17 3:00.
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: For that point, the answer is i 19 correct.
20 MS. LETSCHE: I assume you are not contesting the
! 21 accuracy of the reporting reflected in the public information 4 22 support log, are you?
) 23 WITNESS ROBINSON: Based on what Mr. Daverio has 24 said, I believe there is one statement in there at least that j
~
25 is currently incorrect.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: Which statement is that?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: That he just stated, and I will 3 let him restate --
4 MS. LETSCHE: No, excuse me. I want an answer 5 from you as to what you believe in this log is now 6 incorrect.
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: The statement at the top of 8 page 9, because they could have walked over and listened to 9 the radio frequency and monitored it.
10 MS. LETSCHE ~ But they apparently didn't know 11 that, did they, according to the log?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: According to the log, that's 13 correct.
14 MS. LETSCHE: According to the log, the people 15 believed that they did not have direct contact with the 16 guides, right?
17 WITNESS DAVERIO: Ms. Letsche, they don't. This 10 is an ENC log. I was talking about the EOC. What she is 19 say!ng in the public information staff at the EOC could have 20 monitored that. That one statement is not precisely correct, f
21 is what she is saying.
22 JUDGE PARIS: Is this log from the EOC or the 23 ENC?
24 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think we have totally 25 confused the issue. This is the ENC log.
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f f30616.0 KSW 3552 1 JUDGE PARIS: They do not have direct contact?
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: The ENC does not.
3 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Not to further confuse things, but 5 to make sure the record is clear, the ENC also does not have 6 - direct contact with staging areas, does it?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, they do not.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Now, on page 38 of your testimony, 9 Ms. Robinson, you talk about a reference in subpart J to 10 Contention 38, to conditions or evacuation activity on the i 11 water portion of the EPZ. .Now, ENC does not have contact j 12 with the Coast Guard, does it, under the LILCO plan?
I 13 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
{ 14 MS. LETSCHE: And during the exercise, you did not i
j 15 have information, did you, about what the Coast Guard did or i 16 did not do during the exercise?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: I'm not sure that I understand ,
V l 18 the question.
4 19 MS. LETSCHE: Let me try it again.
! 20 You describe here on pages 38 and 39 the answer to l
21 a question dur3ng one of the news conferences about people i 22 jumping in the water and swimming to Connecticut, and in l
l 23 response to that question during the press conference, you 24 gave a little information about the U.S. Coast Guard. Now, f.
i i 25 I'm correct, aren't I, that what you said here -- and it l
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30616.0 3553 0KSW 1 starts at the bottom of page 38 and carries over to page 39 2 -- about the Coast Guard, is a description of what the LILCO 3 plan says the function of the Coast Guard is, right?
4 WITNESS RORINSON: And that the Coast Guard has 5 agreed to perform, yes.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Right. And it is true, is it not, 7 that during the exercise you did not receive information 8 about what the Coast Guard actually did or did not do during 9 the exercise?
10 ~ WITNESS ROBINSON: That's-correct.
11 JUDGE FRYE: Ms. Letsche, we have to pause for 12 just a moment.
13 (Recess.)
14 JUDGE FRYE On the record.
15 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn to page 39 of your 16 testimony, Ms. Robinson?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: I'm there.
18 MS. LETSCHE: This discusses your statements to 19 the press about protective actions for the inmates of various 20 correctional facilities. The EBS messages didn't make any 4
21 nention of any correctional facilities or protective action 22 for inmates of those facilities, did they?
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, they did not.
24 MS. LETSCHE: And none of the press releases did 25 either, did they?
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- KSW 3554 73 L) 1 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
2 MS. LETSCHE: You state in your answer to the 3 question, which you quote on page 39 of your testimony, that 4 there are no plans to evacuate correctional facilities. Did 5 you have any conversations with anyone during the exercise 6 concerning whether during the exercise any recommendations 7 had been made or simulated with respect to the inmates of 8 correctional facilities?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Now you say in your answer that the 11 only correctional facility which you believe is affected is 12 the Honor Farm. You said in your response to the press you v 13 would have to check and conctrm that. Is that in fact the 14 case?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: I believe 80.
16 MS. LETSCHE: Did you ever check and confirm it?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: I did within the ENC with 18 someone else who was familiar with the original plan.
19 MS. LETSCHE: You were not?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes, I was, but I wanted to 21 confirm my own memory.
22 MS. LETScilE When you say at the end of the 23 answer that no action is needed at the River Elead corrections 24 facility, what was your basis for that statement?
p 25 WITNESS RODINSON: Again, the original plan.
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30616.0 KSW 3555 1 MS. LETSCHE: I don't understand what you mean.
2 You mean the original plan said the words "no action is 3 needed at the River Head corrections facility"?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: It is not within the EPZ.
5 MS. LETSCHR: That was the basis for your saying 6 it during the exercise, your knowledge that that facility was 7 not within the EP7.?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn to page 40 of your 10 testimony, please? Beginning on this page, you discutis a 11 reference in subpart J of Contention Ex-38 to questions about 12 manpower, bridges, and tunnels, and the activities of the 13 Nassau County Police. It is true, is it not, Ms. Robinson, 14 that during the exercise, LERO did advise a large number of 15 people to go into Nassau County to the Coliseum for 16 monitoring and decontamination?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
18 MS. LETSCHE: And that recommendation was made 19 because LERO believed that that action was necessary for the 20 health and safety of those memberu of the public, right?
21 WITNESS RODINSON: Yos.
22 MS. LETSCHE: Now, at the ENC, you do not have a 23 means of communicating directly with, or you don't have a 24 direct contact with the Nassau County Polico Department, do 25 you?
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30616.0 KSW 3556 1 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, that's not correct.
2 NS. LETSCHE: What, do you have some kind of 3 direct line from the ENC to the Nassau County Police?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
5 NS. LETSCHE: What is your means of 6 communicating?-
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: Were this a real emergency, 8 simply by commercial telephone.
9 NS. LETSCHE: During the exercise, of course, you 10 didn't have any contact with Nassau County Police?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, I did not.
12 NS. LETSCHE: You say on page 40 that, you are 13 referring to a response to a question, what about since the 14 traffic is moving into Nassau County and possibly into the 15 city, are there people ready to handle all that traffic in 16 tunnels and bridges, and then there's something else, well, 17 we don't know what that is. You say clearly the reporter was 18 asking for information about evacuation far outside the 19 10-mile EPZ, especially in regard for New York City, which is 20 more than 50 miles from the plant. Then you say that 21 information in outside LEHO's baillwick and thus is 22 1rreinvant. In fact, Ms. Robinson, LERO purports to be-able 23 to deal with the entire 50-mile ingestion pathway, doesn't 24 it?
25 WITNESS HOBINGON: Hut that's not ovacuation.
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30616.0 r3 KSW 3557 L) 1 MS. LETSCHE: LERO purports to be able to deal 2 with the entire 50-mile ingestion pathway, doesn't it?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
4 MS. LETSCHE: It is not irrelevant, is it, how one 5 could get to the Coliseum when the need to go there is in 6 order to protect one's health and safety?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, that is not irrelevant.
8 MS. LETSCHE: In fact, LERO under the LILCO plan 9 intends to evacuate residents of certain special facilities 10 to hospitals or other facilities out at Nassau County or even 11 further away, correct?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
b) 13 MS. LETSCHE: And LILCO also intends to or says 14 that school children would be evacuated to some kind of 15 reception centers also well outside the EPZ, correct?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: I at this point do not know the 17 exact locations of those reception centers, but clearly they 18 would be outside the EPZ.
19 MS. LETSCHE: They could be in Nassau County, 20 couldn't they?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: It is speculation, but the 22 answer is yes.
23 MS, LETSCHE: Are there any communication links 24 between the ENC and the State of Connecticut?
(~s 25 JUDGE FRYE: You mean dedicated?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, not dedicated.
2 MS. LETSCHE: In order to communicate with people 3 in the state or someone affiliated with the state of 4 Connecticut, you would rely on commercial telephones?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: If I could not get the 6 information from the EOC, absolutely.
7 MS. LETSCHE: I assume that would be true with 0 respect to any other -- strike that.
9 The only dedicated commercial lines you have at 10 the ENC are the EOC and the EOF?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Which others do you have?
O J 13 WITNESS ROBINSON: I only have the EOC, but the 14 on-site organization has others that -- excuse me. We're 15 conferring on which are dedicated lines and which are 16 commercial lines. There are so many telephones there.
17 (Panel conferring.)
10 JUDGE FRYE: Where are we headed with this 19 particular line of questioning?
20 MS. LETSCHE: I jurt want to establish what the 21 information gathering capabilities are at the ENC, and I 22 believe it is going to boil down to other than communicating 23 with the EOC and EOF, it is by commercial telephone to anyone 24 they would try to call.
gs 25 JUDGE FRYE: Once you answer this question then --
I t
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: There are some radios as well, 2 for backup information as well as the computer ones.
3 MS. LETSCHE: But those go again to the EOC and 4 the EOF, right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, the computer links go 6 throughout the company, wherever there are terminals, through 7 a central mainframe and out to various terminals.
8 JUDOE PARIS: This is a LILCO computer linkage?
9 It is not linked elsewhere?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct. It is not.
11 Basically communications through commercial telephone 12 network.
13 WITNESS DAVERIO: Part of the problem is finding 14 the procedure. In the LILCO work space ne have two dedicated 15 lines. If I recall, one goes to UP and one to TFC. We have 16 a radio frequency in case the phones don't work as a backup, 17 and then in the LERO Work space or the government work space 18 there's one dedicated line, which I assume goes to the EOC.
19 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's right.
20 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's EPIP 4-06.
21 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn, please, to page 42?
22 Now, in the answer to question 78, you discuss Marketing 23 Evaluations, Inc. Now, Marketing Evaluations is the company 24 which is supposed to do what under the LILCO plan, 25 Ms. Robinson?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: There are two functions that 2 they play in supporting the LERO organization. One is to 3 confirm siren soundings, and the other is that in the event 4 of an evacuation they would confirm that it had taken place.
5 MS. LETSCHR: So they basically survey, do 6 telephone surveys of people to find out if they heard the 7 sirens and then to find out if they have left, correct?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
9 MS. LETSCHS: Then they report back to t.he EOC the 10 results of those surveys?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Are those reports made to people in 13 the public information area at the EOC7 14 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
15 MS. LETSCIIS : So the discussion that you have here 16 in the answer to question 78 about the difficulty in 17 contacting Marketing Evaluationis on the day of the exercise 18 took place at the EOC by public information staff located 19 there; is that right?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: There may have been other 21 persons who were designated to make those telephone calls.
22 There are a number of administrative support poopic there. I 23 don't know specifically who did it.
24 MS. LETSCHR: It is a public information function 25 to do that, however?
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1 WITNESS RODINSON: That's correct.
2 MS. LETSCHE: Now, you go on to say that Marketing 3 Evaluations didn't really participate in the exercise, but 4 there were people, I guess LILCO people, who were at 5 telephones who simulated that that'as who they were when the 6 calls were made, right?
7 WITNESS ROIIINSON: Either LILCO or contractors.
O I'm not certain again.
9 MS. LETSCIIE : Right.
10 Now, there were during the exercine, weren't 11 there, messagen injected by FEMA about airens having failed?
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: At this point, I can only i
V 13 recall one.
14 MS. LETSCilEs One message?
15 WITNESS R011INSON: Yes, one message. I believe 16 one meusage, three alrena.
17 MS. LETScilE And did you receive information 10 about the simulated ulren failure while you were at thu ENC 19 during the exercisso?
20 WITNESS ROHINDON: Yeu, I did.
21 MS. LETScilE s Did you discuss that in any of your 22 preen conferencon?
23 WITNEGS HollINSON: No. It came up during asi 24 interval. We have a map there nhowing all of the siren 25 locationn and what -- I believe it was one of my anniutant a, O
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1 I don't recall which one, simply marked that siren map with 2 Xs. It hao a plexiglas coat, and you mark it with Xtt and put 3 it in the briefing room. If it did not como up in one of the 4 briefings, it was put out there, and the explanation of what 5 it was. That was one of those intervals that did not come up 6 on the tape.
7 MS. LETScilE That wasn't an explanation you gave, 8 it was something someono else gave?
9 WITNH!iS .0BINSON: That's correct, another staff 10 member.
11 MS. LETSCHE: That information about sirens having 12 Called wasn't included in any EDS messages or news releases, O' 13 wau it?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
15 MS. LETscilEs And I take it it was something which 16 in your judgment did not need to bo brought otet at one of the 17 press conferences because of the other activities you 10 mentioned at the ENC, right?
19 WITNE!!B RollINSON: This, and also because it was a 20 nimulation, there really was not that much interest jn a 21 Called simulation of similiated sirens.
22 M11. LETiiCHE: Would you turn, pleonto, to page 44 23 of yoter toutimony? Dr. Miloti, you have an answor horn to 24 quantion number 02, and just so that wn're all on the namn 25 wavolongth, this is a diticussion of the entry is: the ENC log O
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- 1 about the gravel truck having been removed at a time when it 2 had not been removed an yet. You say in this answer that ;
3 even if the media reported to the public at 12:01 that the 4 blockage was being removed when it actually wasn't, it would 5 have had a neg11ble effect on public health and safety. Is 6 Jt your testimony, Dr. Mileti, that in a real emergency, that 7 there would have been a negligible effect on public health 8 and safety if based on such a report at 12:02, people 9 attempted to evacuate on a blocked evacuation route?
10 WITNESS MILETI: If an evacuation route were 11 blocked, people attempted to use it and couldn't traverse it, 12 that could cause a problem in a hypothetical sonne, but there O 13 were traffic guides simulated diverting people around this 14 simulated roadblock of whatever sort during the exercise.
15 MS. LETSCHR: I take it if the traff.ic guides were 16 not there, then there wouldn't be that alleviating factor in 17 operation, right?
10 WITNESS MILETI: It wot:1d depend on the specific.
l 19 People would have invlted themselves to get around a 20 blockage, but it would depend if they could do that.
21 MS. LRTScilR: Dr. Mileti, wo discuaned a little 22 while ago with Mn. Robinson the different elements of 23 information that worn out there about this traffte blockago 24 all at roughly the same time, and I think wo entablished that 25 Ln her presa conferonce at, I belinvo it was prnou conference O
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1 number 4, she announced that the gravel truck had been 2 removed and traffic was flowing fine, and then at 2:00, the 3 EDS messages telling them to avoid that route were being 4 broadcant over the radio. Now, in your opinion, would those 5 statements have had a potentially confusing impact on the 6 public?
7 WITNESS MILETI: To the extent they were 11 inconsistent, they would be potentially confusing, but I 9 don't believe they would have had an impact compared to the 10 amount of conflicting information that occurs in a real 11 emergency; what was simulated was emergency information 12 heaven.
13 JUDGE FHYE: I didn't hear the last part of the 14 answer, Dr. Mileti.
15 WITNESS MILETI: It was a valuo judgment on my 16 part comparing what was si:nulated in this emergency to what 17 it looks like in real emergencico, what was simulated here, 10 including the minor inconsistencies and problems everyone is 19 talking about, this was emergency heaven.
20 MS. LETSCIIE : Would you turn to page 45? In the 21 answer to question 86, Mo. Robinson, you discuss or begin the 22 discussion of subpart N of Contention 30, which talks about 23 statements made during thane presa conferencen. I take it 24 that you don't dispute the fact that the ntatements mentioned p 25 in the contention itself were inaccurate, although you can O
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1 make -- you do comment on it as to who the statement was made 2 by also on page 45, right?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: For those two statements, I 4 agree.
5 MS. LETSCHE: And is it your position that with 6 the exception of those two inaccurate statements, that there 7 were,-and possibly the others we have already discussed 8 today, that there were no other instances where during press 9 conferences facts were misstated or inaccurate information 10 was provided?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: I have to qualify that by 12 saying based on the scenario and what we were operating 13 under, I would characterize the information as accurate, 14 yes.
15 MS. LETSCHE: Could we go, please, back to 16 attachment Q, which is some of the excerpts from the news 17 conference transcripts? On page 1, in particular, there's a 10 question in item number 2 which says the wind is from the 19 north-northwest, I understand. If they are going to leave 20 and go somewhere, should they go to the west? What should 21 people do then? In response to that question, you stated 22 there was a statement in the question about the wind t
23 conditionn and there's an anticipated wind shift tonight to 24 west-northwest. That la not the current wind condition.
25 Were you given information, Ms. Hobinnon, during O
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1 the exercise about the wind directions and the projected wind 2 directions after a wind shift?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
4 MS. LETSCHE: That's what you base your statement 5 during this press conference on, I assume, right?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: The scenario, yes.
7 MS. LETSCHE: It was based on the information you 8 received during the exercise, right?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right. What I'm trying to 10 explain is that the information I had to use was information 11 in the scenario, not real time.
12 MS. LETSCHE: I understand that. The point is 13 that your statements during the press conference were based 14 upon information that you received during the exercise from 15 other exercise players, which presumably was from the 16 scenario, wherever they got it, right?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Now, in fact, it is true, is it not 19 -- and Mr. Daverio is going to have to answer this one --
20 that according to the scenario, the winds at this time, which 21 is prior to the wind shitt, were from the east-northeast 22 toward the west-southwest?
23 WITNESS DAVERIO: It was heading towards the 24 southwest from whatever the opposite would be to that. But 25 it was coming and going towards south of Port Jefferson.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: I don't want to belabor this. This 2 is not a memory test for you, Mr. Daverio. Let me just 3 state, and I will refer to transcript references during the 4 wind shift testimony to make this easier,'during that 5 testimony, Mr. Watts, at transcript page 2462 stated, yes, in 6 response to a: question which says, "During the day of the 7 exercise, at the beginning of the exercise, the wind was 8 blowing from the east-northeast toward the west-southwest, is 9 that correct?" Answer, "Yes, that's correct."
10 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's consistent.
11 MS. LETSCHE: During the exercise, following the 12 wind shift, the wind was going to be blowing from the k-) 13 west-northwest t.oward the east-southeast, right?
14 WITNESS DAVERIO: It would have been to the 15 east / south direction. I'm not sure east. I forget exactly 16 where it was, but in the easterly direction and south.
17 That's correct. But I don't remember which one -- the other 18 one that goes with that.
19 MS. LETSCHE: Transcripts will speak for itself 20 and for purposes of this examination, if you would agree with 21 me, Mr. Daverio, that it was in fact from the, to be from the 22 west-northwest toward the east-southeast following the wind 23 shift?
24 WITNESS DAVERIO: In that general direction, 25 that's correct.
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^L) 1 MS. LETSCHE: So in fact the : statement by 2 Ms. Robinson concerning the anticipated wind shift later 3 tonight to the west-northwest is not correct, right?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: Ms. Letsche, I'm going to 5 answer that because I'm the one who made it. I still believe 6 .that that answer is correct, since wind directions arev 7 normally given with the direction frca'which they were 8 blowing, and that was an anticipated wind shift, and I would 9 stand by that answer.
10 MS. LETSCHE: So your statement that the wind 11 shift later tonight to the west-northwest would communicate 12 the fact that the wind was to be blowing from the
-13 west-northwest to the east-southeast after the wind shift?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: And especially shown on a map, 15 to the best of my knowledge, that's the way they are usually 16 given is from whence they are blowing.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn to page 4, please, of 18 attachment Q? In answer number 5, which is a continuation of
-19 an answer during news conference number 3, you are discussing 20 the protective action recommendation, which involved telling r
21 the entire EPZ to evacuate, and you explain the reason for 22 the change in protective action recommendations 'au( the wind
'23 shift. You say there in the third paragraph under item 5, 24 " wind shift is expected as early as 3:00 p.m. changing from 25 winds out of the north-northeast to winds out of;the O,-
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1 north-northwest." That wasn't' accurate either, was it?
+ 2 JUDGE FRYE: What was the question?
3 MS. LETSCHE - I will change the question. That 4 statement was not accurate, was it?
5 '~' WITNESS ROBINSON: At this point, I believe it 6 was.7 but I certainly don't have the basis for that here. I 7 just would have to go back and check the records, and I don't 8 have those kinds of records with me.
9 MS. LETSCHE: We did just establish that the 10 record already provides that according to the scenario, after-11 the shift, the wind was going to be coming from out of the 12 east-northeast to out of the west-northwest.
(~')
\/ But that's what this says.
13 WITNESS ROBINSON:
14 MS. LETSCHE: Wait a second. I'm sorry --
15 JUDGE PARIS: We're off a few degrees. This says 16 north-northeast --
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think I just got lost.
18 MS. LETSCHE: This wouldn't matter in'a press
.c 19 briefing, right?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, because if it was
- 21 confusing, the reporters would ask follow-up questions.
22 MS. LETSCHE: You would agree with me, wouldn't 23 you, that it is the protective action recommendations that 24 are the most important information to be communicated to the g-) 25 public during an accident, right?
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1 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
2 MS. LETSCHE: And if we're talking about being
' 3 consistent and accurate and noncontradictory, it would be 4 particularly important for that to be the case with respect 5 to those protective action recommendations, right?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes, and that's why we use 7 zones and road descriptions, because I think most of the 8 public, just as I'm having trouble with the exact wind 9 directions, would have it, and that's not something that is 4
10 used in the EBS messages, and I think that this may be a very 11 . good reason why.
12 MS. LETSCHE: And you would agree too, wouldn't 13 you, Dr. Mileti, that setting aside winds, not talking about 14 winds anymore, that --
15 WITNESS MILETI: I'm glad, by the way.
16 MS. LETSCHE: With respect to the protective 17 action recommendations, it is particularly important to be 18 consistent and clear and nonconflicting in your information, I 19 right?
20 WITNESS MILETI: I agree it is important, but I i
21 would say there are four aspects of warning message content 22 that are important, one of which is guidance about what to 23 do. The answer is yes, of course it is important.
24 MS. LETSCHE: And you would agree, wouldn't you, 25 that if a representative of LERO went public with the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 statement that the risk is so small that it is not necessary i' '
2 to evacuate at the same time that the EBS station is saying 3 you should evacuate as soon as possible, that that would be 4 inconsistent and contradictory information?
5 WITNESS MILETI: I would agree that what you have 6 just given me is inconsistent and contradictory. However, I
^
7 believe that any emergency plan, including this one, should-8 presume that those kinds of things will happen. ,
9 MS. LETSCHE: It-would be inconsistent, 10 contradictory and confusing, right?
11 WITNESS MILETI: Well, I agree if somebody said A
, 1:2 and somebody else said B, and you pitted one against the
('\
\l 13 other, A'is not. equal to B.
14 MS. LETSCHE: And it would be confusing, 15 contradictory and inconsistent, right?
- - 16 WITNESS MILETI
- I said A is not equal to B.
17 MS. LETSCHE: Mr. McCaffrey,.it is true,'is it 18 not, that during one of the press conferences, Dr. Brill, the 19 LERO scientist,- announced that although he lived within two 20 miles.of the plant, he probably would not evacuate at-the 21 time that the EBS system was announcing that everyone, 22 including those within two miles of the plant, should 23 evacuate?
24 WITNESS ROBINSON: I must correct one thing.
25 Dr. Brill and Dr. Bender as well were not there as members of i
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4 MS. LET3CHE: It is true, isn't it, during one of 5 the press conferences, and I will direct your attention to
. 6 the transcript pages 58 and . 59, that Dr. Brill announced that 7 7 although he lived within two miles of-the plant, he probably
- 8 would not evacuate, at a time when people in that area were 4
9 being told to evacuate that area.
110 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes, Dr. Brill said that.
11 That was immediately corrected by the news manager, who 12 indicated that the EBS recommendation should be followed and l
13 Dr. Brill's opinion was that, his independent opinion.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Where in the transcript is that
- 15' reflected, Mr. McCaffrey?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Direct me to the page again, 17 -please.
18 MS. LETSCHE: 58 and 59. When you get to the f 19 bottom of 58 you will note your name there, and I think you
-20 will probably want to make the correction that that 21 Mr. McCaffrey reference on line 20 on page 58 should be Dr.
22 Brill.
23 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct. That's not i
7 24 me speaking at that point. Will you just give me a moment?
25 I don't see it in the transcript, but I can testify here
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1 today I personally heard it said.
2 MS. LETSCHE: During this actual news conference, 3 though, no such correction was made, right? By you or by 4 Ms. Robinson?
5 (Panel conferring.)
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: If you mean did we directly 7 contradict Dr. Brill, no, we had -- I had at least given the 8 protective action recommendations as they came from LERO.
9 The purpose of the news center, I think as we all understand, 10 it is not to prevent people from saying things that are 11 contradictory, but rather to have them in a place so you know 12 what they are saying and can cope with it.
I,,)
A/ 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: My recollection from the time 14 is that I suspect that our person who was filming the press 15 conferencer stopped because it was kind of winding down, and 16 it was at the very tail end of it that Mr. Langford reminded 17 people that they should follow the protective action 18 recommendations, so I suspect the tape is simply off at that 19 point.
20 MS. LETSCllE : In fact, if you turn to page 61, 12 1 which is the end of that press conference, Mr. McCaffrey, 22 there's a statement identified as " voice," which I think you 23 will agree with me is Mr. Langford, saying, "Okay, ladies and 24 gentlemen, I appreciate your cooperation. We'll be back with
- 25 you as soon as we have any updated information, and Dr. Brill
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4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's what the pages say.
5 I'm telling you what I heard.
6 (Panel conferring.)
7 MS. LETSCHU: Mr. McCaffrey, would you turn, 8 please, to page 54 of the transcript? In this section 9 there's a question here to you on line 10 of the transcript, 10 "I'm interested in knowing how dangerous to the public is the
-11 level of radiation that has been released to this point," and 12 so we're on the same wavelength here,-this is at press 13 conference number 4, which is taking place roughly 1:00 time
'14 frame, I believe. You refer that question to Dr. Brill, 15 right?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
.17 MS. LETSCHE: Dr. Brill is with Brookhaven 18 National Labs; is that right?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
20 MS. LETSCHE: He has participated in LERO training 21 programs with respect to exactly this function, being a 22 supplement to the public information activities at the ENC, 23 correct?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Dr. Brill has not 25 participated in any training. He has from time to time
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1 participated in actual drills.
2 MS. LETSCHE: He had done_that prior to the
[
3 exercise, right?
4 WITNESS ROBINSON: .Once. I believe once.
4 5 MS. LETSCHE: And he is --
1 6 JUDGE PARIS: Is Dr. Brill a private citizen or 7 what?
8 WITNESS ROBINSON: He isLa federal employee, but
. 9 he was appearing there as a private citizen. He is a M.D.
10 and.a Ph.D. with a background in radiation biology who ,
.11 happens to live in the area of the Shoreham plant. He and 12 'Dr.IMike Bender were doing'this on their own time as private
~
1- .
13 citizens. They don't'get any compensation of any kind.
T 14 JUDGE PARIS: Okay. Their position is.that they
-15 are not part of either organization. They are there as 16 information sources.
17 JUDGE FRYE: They work for Brookhaven National 18 Laboratories?
19 WITNESS ROBINSON:- That's' correct.
4
-20 MS. LETSCHE: Dr. Brill does respond to that over 21 the next' couple of pages. I'take it that at the time of his-22 statements, that -- let me clear something else up.
23 Mr. McCaffrey, on pages 56, carrying over to 57, there are 4
24 two more references to you which I believe you would agree 25 should be Dr. Bril] in this transcript. Can we clear that up
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2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: On line 12, this is not me.
3 17 is not me.
4 MS. LETSCHE: And 21 is not you either?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's Dr. Brill.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Right. Now, Dr. Brill provided an 7 answer to this question, and again there were no corrections 8 or changes made to the information he provided following his 9 doing so, correct?
10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct. There's 11 nothing on this transcript that says that.
12 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it that with respect to J 13 this one, you don't have any recollection of anything other 14 than what's in this transcript being said to correct or 15 change anything that Dr. Brill said in this response, right?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The only thing I have 17 testified to here is that when Dr. Brill made his own 18 personal opinion based upon the doses that he probably would 19 not evacuate, that was Dr. Brill's opinion, and that was 20 corrected by LILCO people to the press that that was his 21 opinion and nonetheless they should follow the 22 recommendations.
23 MS. LETSCHE: Mr. McCaffrey, reading through 24 Dr. Brill's discussion, particularly the beginning of it, n,.
25 starting at line 17 on page 54, to line 7 on page 55, is it
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3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: You will have to refresh my 4 memory. -What time-frame are we in here?
5 MS. LETSCHE: 'This is roughly 1:00, I believe.
6 Let me check. 12:47 to 1:07, 7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: My recollection is earlier in 8 the transcript there should be some reference to my giving
~
9 that information. Dr. Brill didn't come in with his own 10 information..
11 MS. LETSCHE: The 180 milliren'is consistent. I'm
~
- 12 .not suggesting that it is not. I'm not trying to trick you 13 here. He starts his discussion referring to the 180 millirem 14 estimate at two miles from.the plant. He goes on at the top-15 of page 55 to talk about the weathering factor-and the
- 16 exposure doses. Is that accurate?
17 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Dr. Brill said those things.
18 He was providing his opinion of the sheltering factors for 19 people in the house.
20 MS. LETSCHE: That's-not the sheltering factor 21 that LILCO uses, is it?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't know.
23 WITNESS DAVERIO: No, it is not.
24 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, even if it was, the
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3 JUDGE SHON: That may well be the result of~the 4 ' transcription. process. We've seen whoever was doing the 5 transcribing had great difficulty understanding, and 6 misunderstanding 60 as 16 would not be unusual.
7 MS. LETSCHE: Is 60 a correct calculation of a 8 three-fold weathering factor?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
10 MS. LETSCHE: The LERO weathering factor, however, 11 is .7, is it not?
12 WITNESS DAVERIO: Both LERO and the on-site
~O:
.13 is .7.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn,-please, to page 56 15 of the transcript? Now, in order -- I think we need to make 16 another correction in the transcript; beginning at line 10 17 there's a question which says, " Voice: Are you saying that 18 basically these people have nothing to worry about?" This is 19 after Dr. Brill has given a discussion about low level 20 radiation doses, and at line 12, Dr. Brill rather than you, 21 Mr. McCaffrey, says the people out there have absolutely 22 nothing to worry about. The people who are there also have.
l- 23 -Would you agree with me that's supposed to say the people not 4
24 there have absolutely nothing to worry about? That's what he-25 says when you look at the videotape, isn't it?
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1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't recall.
2 MS. LETSCHR: Going further down, there's a 3 question which says they are moving six miles an hour with a 4 blocked truck on -- I think that's supposed to be Middle 5 Island Road. Okay, there's nothing to worry about, and 6 Dr. Brill gives an answer which says, "No, I don't believe 7 they have. I think the greatest impact of the accident will 8 be on LILCO, and the costs associated with the cleanup of the 9 plant. And the least impact will be on the health of the 10 people in the area, or in the evacuation the greatest risk is 11 the evacuation itself, in fact, accidents on the road and 12 .that sort of thing."
p k- 13 There was no correction made with respect.to any 14 of those statements by anyone at LILCO or LERO, was there?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: No.
16 MS. LETSCHE: In your opinion, are those accurate 17 and appropriate statements to be made at this press 18 conference?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I can't say whether I think 20 it is appropriate or not. Dr. Brill was trying to put in 21 perspective what he felt was a fairly low level of 22 radiation. That was his opinion.
23 WITNESS ROBINSON: I would agree that was 24 Dr. Brill speaking to the media, and since he was not a 25 representative of the organization I was representing, I had
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1 no control over what he said.
2 MS. LETSCHE: You felt it was unnecessary to 3 comment on it or give the press any additional information on 4 these subjects, right?
5 WITNESS ROBINSON: I gave the press my 6 information. I am not qualified as a health physicist or a 7 physician to get into a debate.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Judge Frye, this would be a good 9 place to break.
10 JUDGE FRYE: Let's take our lunch break at this 11 point.
12 (Whereupon, at 12 :20 p.m. , the hearing was 13 recessed, to be reconvened at 1:50 p.m. this same day.)
14 15 16 1
17 18 19 I 20 l 21 22 23 l
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,U,_, KEW 1 AFTERNOON SESSION (1:50 p.m. )
2 JUDGE FRYE: On the record.
3 MS. LETSCHE: Before we begin this, I have a 4 scheduling matter which I want to bring to everyone's 5 attention. After the discussion yesterday with your 6 requirement that I finish up this cross-examination by midday 7 tomorrow, I recontacted all of my witnesses on Contention 38 8 and 39 with the estimate that I had had which had this 9 carrying over until Monday, that had been the last time I 10 talked to them on scheduling. When I talked to Professor 11 Loftus, who is one of our witnesses on Contention 38 and-39, 12 I discovered that she has to testify at the King County im
(_) 13 Superior court in Seattle, Washington on-Monday morning, and 14 she will get a flight out immediately after that, but does 15 not arrive here coming f rom Seattle until almos t 11:00 Monday-
, 16 evening. Therefore I will not have my witness panel 17 available until Tuesday, and unfortunately, with Dr. Loftus 18 not arriving until so late I will not have had an opportunity 19 to speak with her at all concerning preparation for this 20 testimony until Tuesday morning, as a practical matter.
l 21 Therefore, what I would propose to deal with this 22 witness scheduling problem and to accommodate the other 23 witness scheduling problems that we have been dealing-with 24 here is the fo13owing: I propose that we -- sounds like we 25 will finish up with LILCO's witness panel this week on ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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30616.0 KSW 3582 1 Contention 38 and 39 so as not to disrupt Dr. Mileti and 2 Ms. Robinson's scheduling next week. I propose we start the 3 witness panel on Contention 38 and 39 midday on Tuesday.-
4 Ms. McCleskey has said she has no more than two days of 5 cross-examination for that panel, and when we add questioning 6 from the other parties and redirect and things like that it 7 looks clear we would finish that panel by next week.
8 Since Dr. Mileti is on LILCO's training panel, 9 which is the next panel to come up, and he is not available 10 at all next week because of his teaching obligations, we 11 could then next week begin training when Dr. Mileti is again 12 available on Monday, which I believe is the 4th of May. That Q
Ts s 13 would accommodate all of the witness problems that I'm aware 14 of for the next two weeks.
15 MS. MC CLESKEY: I would like to respond to that.
16 First of all, LILCO is perfectly willing to go forward on 17 Monday morning with all of the Suffolk County witnesses save 18 Ms. Loftus and start with Ms. Loftus on Tuesday morning when 19 she is in New York, if that is the only accommodation that 20 can be made to get Ms. Loftus here.
21 I think that there is a real problem with witness 22 availability in this proceeding. There's always been. The 23 problem for me is that LILCO witnesses are generally kept on 24 the stand a couple of weeks at a time, and in Dr. Mileti's 25 case he will have been here two weeks already and is going to ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS. INC.
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1 be on training as well, which the estimate I believe in the 2 letter we received is another two weeks. That's a very 3 different difficulty from bringing Suffolk County witnesses 4 i here for what is usually at most a day or two to talk about 5 the issues.
6 JUDGE FRYE: Just address the proposal, please.
7 MS. MC CLESKEY: I disagree with the notion that 0 we will finish next week with merely the ENC issue. We would 9 like to get to training. I think if we start on Monday and 10 do Ms. Loftus on Tuesday morning that we can get to training 11 next week, and that's what we would like to do.
12 JUDGE FRYE: Will Dr. Mileti be available next
?.,
13 week?
14 MS. MC CLESKEY: That's the piece I had forgotten 15 to mention. I mentioned to Ms. Letsche a long time ago that 16 there are the teaching problems, and my understanding is that 17 Ms. Monahan, who is handling the training issue, and 18 Mr. Miller were going to try to reach some accommodations so 19 that Dr. Mileti and Mr. Lindell, who have a pretty divisible 20 piece of the training issue could come on together, 21 separately perhaps, and be dealt with in a day or two that 22 way, rather than having to sit with the entire panel for the 23 entire issue.
24 JUDGE FRYE: Have you talked with Ms. Letsche 25 about that?
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i MS. MC CLESKRY: I had suggested that to her a 2 while ago and she said you will have to deal with Mr. Miller, 3 it is his issue. And --
4 MS. LETSCHE: I have spoken to Mr. Miller and 5 there have been no conversations about that, and I don't know 6 if that kind of accommodntion would be at all possible or 7 not. That's something that he would have to speak to with 8 respect to the training issue. I know that with respect to 9 the Suffolk County witness panel on Contention 38, for which 10 Ms. McCleskey is proposing that somehow we split that up and 11 have part of the panel cross-examined on Monday and 12 Dr. Loftus cross-examined separately on Tuesday, that won't 13 work. The testimony we have that Dr. Lof tus sponsors is in 14 that entire piece. She cosponsors it with several other-15 witnesses; much of the testimony is cosponsored by all 16 witnesses. It is not as if there's one section you could 17 separate out.
18 When you have jointly sponsored testimony as we 19 have seen throughout this proceeding, you have different 20 elements that the different witnesses can add. They come at 21 it from different points of view. I would extensively object 22 to a requirement that my witness panel be split up and 23 examined separately rather than examined the way their 24 testimony is submitted.
25 JUDGE FRYE: I don't understand how that affects ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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2 MS. LP.TSCHE: It affects if a question is asked 3 that Dr. Loftus.is a sponsor of and we have a discussion 4 about it and we have severa1 ' witnesses bringing up something 5 and Dr. Loftus is not there to offer her opinion, which is 6 part of what is being cross-examined and she might well have 7 something to add.
8 MR. PIRFO: That's what redirect is for. I don't 9 understand. The purpose of redirect would be the lawyer will 10 be here and you can address those on redirect. It doesn't
.11 make any sense to the Staff to grind.the whole process to a 12 halt to wait for Dr. Loftus to come to New York. We many s._) 13 times in this proceeding have proceeded with panels with one 14 member of the panel absent.
- 15 MS. LETSCHE
- It may have. I am responding to 16 Judge Frye's question as to why I object and that is why.
17 The testimony is submitted the way~it is jointly sponsored by 18 several witnesses and I think it should be cross-examined 19 that way. I should not have to go back and do the work that 20 normally -- not the work but conduct the cross-examination 21 because somebody wanted to split up my witness panel and 22 conduct it another way.
23 In response to you, Mr. Pirfo, let me just say in 24 terms of things coming to a grinding halt or changing to
- 25 accommodate witnesses, that has been happening and it has V
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1 happened with respect to LILCo's witnesses in particular with 2 respect to my cross-examinatiog of this panel, and there's no 3 reason that the fact that one of my witnesses has a 4 legitimate scheduling conflict involving testimony in a court 5 should not be accommodated as well as LILCO's teaching 6 problems.
7 MR. PIRFO: I recognize that in fairness --
8 JUDGE FRYE: All right.
9 MS. MC CLESKEY: I have not finished my response 10 to Ms. Letsche. That is that we are not ending this panel 11 simply because there are scheduling problems. My 12 understanding is that this board has set some time 13 limitations up, and my rough calculation is that Ms. Letsche, 14 even if she ends tomorrow at noon, will have met or exceeded, 15 based on the number of pages of testimoto , that time 16 limitation. I think it is important that we stick to those 17 time 3 imitations.
18 JUDGE FRYE: I think we're getting bogged down 19 instead of hearing the witnesses. We'll consider this at a 20 break and talk to you later. Mr. Miller is handling 50 for 21 you and who is handling it for you?
22 MS. MC CLESKEY: Monahan.
23 JUDGE FRYE: As far as that piece of testimony or 24 block of testimony is concerned we're not in a position to
- 25 make a decision because the people who are involved are not
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1 here to tell us their position; is that correct?
2 MS. MC CLESKEY: I don't think that's correct.
3 First, I will be glad to talk about it if you want to; and 4 second Ms. Monahan is on Long Island and can be here in 10 5 minutes.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Ms. McCleskey said they had 7 conferred. The last time I talk to Mr. Miller, they had not, 8 Mr. Miller and Ms. Monahan. There has been no agreement to 9 the suggested split of the LILCO package that Mr. Miller is 10 proposing.
11 MS. MC CLESKEY: Perhaps we could go back and make 12 sure that happens this afternoon.
13 JUDGE FRYE: Fine.
14 MS. LETSCHR: The issue which I would like for you 15 all to be considering is because I'm going to be having to 16 contact my witnesses for next week.
17 Would you all turn to page 47 of your testimony, 18 please? In this section, you discuss the media monitoring, 19 what you call the media monitoring function which was raised 20 in subpart 0 of Contention 38. I guess I will address these 21 to you, Mr. Daverio. Now, you say that the media monitoring 22 is part of the rumor control organization. Does that mean 23 that the media monitoring function is an on-site or a portion 24 of the on-site plan?
25 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
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l 1 MS. LETSCHR: When is the media monitoring 2 function activated?
3 WITNESS DAVERIO: At the same time the ENC is.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Same time the ENC is?
5 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Are the media monitoring personnei 7 located at the ENC?
8 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Are there separately designated 10 personnel at the ENC whose only job function is to be media 11 monitors?
12 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
(~
(_ 13 MS. LETSCliE : That was true according to revision 14 6 of the plan in effect on the day of the exercise; is that 15 right?
16 WITNESS DAVERIO: Revision 6 of the LERO plan, it 17 was in effect in the on-site plan at that time. I think it 18 is revision 4.
19 MS. LETSCHE: You got the gist of my question. It 20 was the one that was in effect on the day of the exercise?
21 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
22 MS. LETSCilE Ilow many of these media monitors are 23 there?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: There are anywhere from two 25 to three depending on how much activity is under way.
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i 30616.0 3589 7,) -KSW ks ,i 1 MS. LETSCHS: Now, you say in your testimony here, 2 the answer to question 91, that media monitoring personnel-3 listen to radio and television coverage of the event and keep 4 logs concerning media reports. They also tape radio and 5 television broadcasts. Am I correct that during the 6 exercise, what your media monitors Jisten to and kept logs 7 concerning was the coverage that day of the exercise itself?
8 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No. What I mean by that is
! .9 that they were monitoring all of the major TV stations and t
10 radio stations, and if an item came up dealing with the 11 exercise, then they would take that and make note of it.
12 They were monitoring all of the major airways at the same 13 time.
l 14 MS. LETSCHE: They were all on, but the only thing.
i 15 they would be really reviewing or monitoring for would be j' 16 coverage of the exercise, right?
i 17 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: They were sensitive to 18 exercise issues and would monitor that, yes.
19 MS. LETSCHR: Now, you go on in your testimony to 20 say, "LILCO and LERO personnel at the ENC periodically review 21 those logs and tapes and speak with media monitors," and you 22 go on and talk about that. Who are the LILCO and LERO 23 personnel that you are referring to in this sentence who 24 review the media monitor logs?
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: If I could have a moment, I 4
f /kCE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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2 There are, as we have said, since the ENC has both 3 on-site and off site personnel, the people that would be 4 checking in on the status of the media monitoring people 5 would be the public information coordinator, the emergency 6 news manager, myself as the technical spokesperson as well as t 7 LERO people. If I could refer to page 9 of the handout that 8 we entered in before, which was the ENC LERO log, it talks 9 about a Mr. Voigt at 13:20 in the log monitoring WALK and .
10 WGLI, so that's an indication at least in that entry that a 11 LERO person had gone in there at that point.
12 MS. LETSCilE s I'm sorry, Mr. McCaffrey, I was 13 distracted. Did the last part of your statement say as an 14 indication of the LERO personnel getting in there?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That was just one example I 16 was abic to find in perusing documents this morning.
17 MS. LETSCilE Your example is the public 18 information support staff person who wrote this log monitored 19 these or looked at these logs by Mr. Cusack and Mr. Voigt?
20 Is that what you are saying?
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Mr. Cusack and Voigt are LERO 22 personnel. The public information coordinator is an on-site 23 position, j 24 MS. LETSCHR: I don't understand what the 12:20 25 entry that you referenced haa to do with the media monitors Ac.s FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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I then.
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: As I recall the question, you 3 were concerned about LILCO and LERO people basically checking 4 in with media moni toring, and I'm citing this as an example 5 of a LERO person going in there.
6 MS. LETSCHE: I was asking about the statement in 7 your testimony which says LILCO and LERO personnel at the ENC 8 periodically review those logs and tapes. Are you saying 9 that what the entry on page 9 of this log indicates is that 10 public information support personnel who wrote this log 11 reviewed media monitor logs kept by Mr. Cusack and 12 Mr. Voigt?
(a i
_) 13 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think I can clarify that a 14 little better. The log itself was written by a support 15 person, a communicator. Mr. Voigt and Mr. Cusack were not 16 sitting in media monitoring. They are LERO public 17 inf ormation support staf f people who periodically would walk 18 down to that room and just check in, look at the logs that 19 media monitors were keeping. They were not the monitors.
20 They would look at the logs being kept and ask questions; if 21 there was something in doubt, they could play back a tape, 22 but it was something they did periodically as part of their 23 responsibility.
24 MS. LETSCHE: I understand. So Mr. Cusack and
-~ 25 Mr. Voigt are among the LERO personnel mentioned in your V
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I testimony who would periodically review media monitor logs; 2 is that right?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Did you yourself during the 5 exercise, Ms. Robinson, review any of the media monitoring 6 logs or tapes?
7 WITNESS' ROBINSON: No, I did not.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Did you speak with the media 9 monitors to determine whether the media was disseminating any 10 information that was inaccurate or inconsistent?
1 11 WITNESS ROBINSON: No, that function was assigned 12 to other staff members who reported back to me.
g.
13 MS. LETSCHE: How many of these public information 14 support staff people were at the ENC on the day of the
- 15 exercise?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: Excuse me while I count on my 17 fingers.
18 I had in addition to myself, five, and one LILCO 19 person who was assigned as an administrative assistant.
I 20 MS. LETSCHE: Now you go on in your testimony to 21 say that these people review the logs and tapes and the media ,
22 monitors to determine whether inconsistent with LILCO or 23 LERO's statements, hm I correct that the media monitors 24 themselves are not supposed to be making those kinds of 25 determination, they just record in their logs or on the
- I
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LJ 1 tapes?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Incorrect. They are supposed 3 to monitor in the media monitoring room that allows them to 4 watch real time press conferences.
5 MS. LETSCHE: Now, I take it from your testimony 6 in this section, 47 and 48, that the media monitors do not 7 have available to them hard copy of LERO EBS messages, 8 correct?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Can I have a moment?
10 (Panel conferring.)
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: The media monitors would have 12 gotten the same materials as the rumor control operators as
('h
(, J 13 soon as they were available, so they would have gotten the 14 hard copy EBS messages when there was copying capability.
15 MS. LETSCHE: Now, I note that on page 48 of your 16 testimony in the second paragraph there, you are referring to 17 why there is not any problem, because the timing of the media 18 monitors receiving the LILCO news releases was not a 19 problem. For one thing, the monitors would have heard the 20 LERO's EBS members and would have been aware of the latest 21 information being given to the public. Because of the 22 copying problems, that would have been the only way they 23 could have known of the text, by listening, as you say in 24 your testimony?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
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3594 LO.-KSW 1 MS. LETSCHE: Under the new procedure the media V .
2 monitors and the. media will not be getting the text of.the 3 messages, they would get what, just the summary'shee'ts and' 4 the press releases, right?
5 , WITNESS ROBINSON: Right.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Under your new revision, is it
-7 contemplated that the media monitors would receive LERO press 8 releases?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
'10 MS. LETSCHE: This is a provision of the on-site 1.1 plan; you are familiar with that, Ms. Robinson.
12 WITNESS ROBINSON: I'm familiar with my end of it, 13 the~ media monitors are expected to receive what.'you give 14 media control people.
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I would refer you to rev 5, 16 dated 10/30/88. Attachment 7 is the media monitor checklist, 17 and item 3 says what statements if any are'being made that 18 are contradictory to LILCO and LERO press releases,-so it is 19 referred to in there.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Now, other than the LERO press 21 releases when they get them and the LERO summary sheets when 22 they get them, I take it that the media monitors who are part 23 of the on-site organization do not have other off-site 24 related information available to them according to your plan; 25 correct?
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1 WITNESS MC bAFFREY: If I could take a moment to 2 check the procedure.
3 The procedure doesn't specifically address what 4 information is handed to the media monitoring peopic. I have 5 to rely upon the new checklist that's in the revision, and it 6 would require that they have access to protective action 7 recommendations and LILCO and LERO press releases because the 8 action taken here causes them to decide whether something is 9 in conflict with those.
10 MS. LETSCHE: The question is how it is they 11 go about doing-that. According to your testimony, 12 Mr. McCaffrey, it looks like what they would have is the
/(-)\ 13 . summary, sheets after they come over from the EOC, the press'
'14 releases after they come over and are copied and distributed 15 and they watch the news conferences and listen to the radio 16 for the EBS messages; is that right?
17 , WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Going back to page 47, am I correct 19 that it is the emergency news manager who is affiliated with 20 the on-site organization who is responsible for deciding 21 whether it is necessary to make an announcemenIt tt'.* correct an 22 inaccuracy or issue a corrective statement or whatever; is 23 that right?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The ultimate decision would 25 be the emergency news manager but anybody can make the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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' (,,/ J I recommendation to him,' including me.
2 . WITNESS ROBINSON: Let me add, Ms. Letsche,;if I
- 3 decided to'make such a at tement on' corrective action,EI r
would'not need the emergency news manager's permission to do 4
5 .so.. 'I'm1 free to-make announcements at will. ,
6 .MS. LETSCHEi Now, down a.txthe' bottom,.'over on f '7 page 48 of the' testimony, in the answer for number 92, and 8 here you were discussing $he fact that-during the exercise,
-9 media' monitoring personnel didn't get'LILCO news releasess4 1 10 and SLuntil 9:31. You state at the bottom of the page that 11 you have a-paragraph talking about why getting the LILCO news 12 releases late is of little practical consequence'in your
- 13 opinion. - Based on your statements in that paragraph , am 'I
-14 ' correct that the media monitors generally are not (nr it is 15 not as important for them to focus on inconsistencies or e 16 inaccuracies-that involve technical information aboutEplant s
17 conditions?
4
[ 18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I think~it is important they 19 be abic to recognize it, but-they also recognize what they j 20 are watching on the media is.out of time with what may have
'21 just taken place recently in a press conference, and they-22 recognize that.
23 MS. LETSCHE: I assume what you are saying, 24 Mr. McCaffrey, is that the media monitors will exercise this 25 judgment as to what the public needs to know when they are l
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1 monitoring and deciding what it is that they should identify 2 as an inaccuracy or a contradictory statement.
3 I WITNESS MC CAFFREY: They merely monitor what is 4 taking place and basically run up the flag to the people-at
- g. . S the news center if they see something inaccurate, and that's 6 why, when I would periodically go in there, I-would ask them 7 to play back tapes that they thought were significant so I 8 could make a technical judgment as well, and during the 9 exercise we saw none.
10 MS. LETSCHE: In your judgment you abide by the 11 statement that the public only needs to know the 12 ramifications of the. technical aspects of the plant status to 13 make decisions that enhance their health and safety; right?-
14 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
15 MS. LETSCHS: Would you turn, please, to page 49 16 of your testimony? I want'to discuss for just a few minutes 17 your discussion of subpart Q in Contention 38 which involves 18 fixes to the exercise problems. Now the contention al]eges 19 that LILCO's proposal to add an extra LERO spokesperson to 20 ENC basically would not take care of the problems. That's 21 the allegation in the contention, and you discuss that on 22 page 50 of your testimony. In fact, in revising your plan 23 you have not added any additional LERO personnel at the ENC, 24 have you?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact the only change that was 2 madefin the procedure was to give the role that you served 3 .that day-the title of spokesperson'as an official title'-
4 rather than just-having you serve'that purpose, right;
'S Ms. Robinson? Isn't that what you say on page 50 of your
- l. 6 testimony?
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: That:s the only personnel
- 8 change, yes.-
9 MS. LETSCHE: But in' fact it is not a personnel
.10 change, it is just a title change; is that right?
t -11 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's correct.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, I'm going to-move on to the
-13 subject-of rumor control. Would.you turn, please, to page 51 14 of your' testimony?. Now, on that'page, in the answer--to 15 question 97, you have a summary of your testimony, and I have 16 a few questions on some of the points you make in that 17 summary.
L' 18 'First you talk about the purpose and function of 19 rumor control in an emergency. It is true, isn't it, 20 Mr. Daverlo, that during the exercise there were EBS messages 21 broadcast which told the public to call their district 22 offices for further information?
23 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
24 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, the district offices 25 are one of the two possible contact points for the public in ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ,
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O- 3599 O(KSW 1 the LILCO rumor control system; correct?
2 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes, that's correct.
.3 Ms. LETSCHE: The other one is the call boards?
4 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
5 MS. LETSCHE: And in fact, the rumor control 6 portion of the LILCO plan is designed to deal with rumors and 7 also to provide answers to public inquiries; correct?
7-WITNESS DAVERIO:
~
8 Yes.
.9 MS. LETSCHE: .You say in the third line of the 10 answer to question number 97 that rumor control hzus a lower
- -11 priority than the larger concerns of broadcasting EBS j .
12 messages, providing press conferences and press releases for 13 the media, Is this a lower priority that you mention that is 14 documented anywhere in your plan?
f 15 WITNESS DAVERIO: .Yes.
16 MS. LETSCHE: Where is that? 7 17 WITNESS.DAVERIO: 'Just by the structure of the i
18 plan. The plan is structured to get EBS messages out within i
19 15 minutes, and therefore, of course, that would mean they 7
20 would have a higher priority because you put emphasis on 21 getting those out immediately. I think you could also infer 22 from reading different parts of the plan that we think press 23 briefings are important. I don't know that you can find 24 explicit statements, other than the one on EDS being very i
~
25 explicit, that's the highest priority, but I think others are 4
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1 subtlely in there in different statements.
2 MS. LETSCHE: It-is true, isn't it, that there is 3 a specific requirement in'NUREG-0654 for a--- to have 4 coordinated arrangements for dealing.with rumors?
5 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes.
6 -MS. LETSCHE: You state in the last sentence of 7 your summary answer here that rumor control procedures were 8 properly followed, I assume that means during the exercise; 9 right?
10 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
11 MS. LETSCHE: And that as a result the public's 12 questions were answered-in a timely manner and for the most 3 13 part accurate information was provided. I take it from your 14 testimony that it is your position' that with respect to all 15 of the public inquiry questions which were handled during-the 16 exercise, that they were answered in a timely manner; is that -
17 right?
i i 10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I think, as we concede later 19 in our testimony, there were a few instances where, because
(
20 of copying problems, the latest information was not i 21 available. That's a timing issue, not that the information .
22 that was available at the sources was incorrect. It was just 23 out of time. We address that later on.
24 MS. LETSCHE: Is that what you mean by the rest of 25 the statement which is "for the most part, accurate
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3601 (v) 1 information was provided"? Is that what you refer to?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
3 MS. LETSCHS: Setting aside the couple of 4 instances you discuss later, which we'll get to, where 5 because of this what you identify as the copying problem, the 6 rumor control people did not have the timely information, it 7 is your position that the timing in which they provided 8 whatever answer it was was all right?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Now as I recall your testimony from 11 I believe yesterday, or maybe it was Monday, it is your 12 position that there was only one rumor involved during the h\- 13 exercise, and that was whether or not the place could blow up 14 like a bomb, right?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: There were specifically four 16 issues that we would classify as relating to the plant 17 blowing up. Like whatever is a variation, but it is the same 18 theme of the plant blowing up.
19 MS. LETSCHE: It is your position that you handled 20 that by, or that I believe as Mr. Langford handled that by 21 coming out at one or two of the press conferences and 22 requesting that the media explain that the plant could not 23 blow up like a bomb, right?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: As I said Monday, most of 25 these rumors were in fact simply inquiries, and the one issue ace. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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v 1 we would classify as a rumor was that one, and because we saw 2 that as a recurring theme we addressed it in the press 3 conference to give it the maximum coverage.
4 MS. LETSCHE: Dr. Mileti, at the bottom of page 5 51, in the answer to question number 99, you talk about a 6 difference between a question and a rumor, and you have a 7 definition of a rumor in here as "a belief with no basis in 8 fact that is being exchanged between members of the public, 9 such that its belief could have a significant impact on the 10 public's situational perceptions during an emergency."
11 Wouldn't you agree with me that any kind of information that 12 was exchanged between members of the public such that its
\m/ 13 belief could have e significant impact on the public 14 situational perceptions during an emergency is information 15 about which the LERO organization should be concerned?
16 WITNESS MILETI: Even though most of the words in 17 your question were my words, could I ask you to repeat the 18 question, please?
19 MS. LETSCHE: Wouldn't you agree with me that any 20 kind of information exchanged between members of the public, 21 such that belief in it could have a significant impact on the 22 public's situational perceptions during an emergency, is 23 information that LERO should be concerned about?
24 WITNESS MILETI: In general, yes. However,
- 25 there's no way LERO could know about all the information V
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,s KSW 3603 NJ 1 that's being exchanged between people, because people talk to 2 each other generically as well as in emergencies.
3 MS. LETSCHE: But among the information that could 4 be exchanged and have an impact on situational perceptions 5 would be information received in response to an inquiry to a 6 LILCO call board or district office, right?
7 WITNESS MILETI: It is quite possible, yes.
8 MS. LETSCHE: I would like to use,. just to make 9 the next portion of this cross-examination I think a little 10 easier, another exhibit here. It is a blown-up version of 11 attachment 13 to the government's testimony, which is a 12 diagram. I have copics of it in case people want to refer to f-~3
(-) 13 it closer up.
14 MS. MC CLESKEY: I have a question. Have we 15 abandoned the rule of 24-hour notice on exhibits? I have 16 received no notice of any exhibits at all.
17 JUDGE FRYE: This is just an attachment from the 18 testimony. It is not an exhibit.
19 MS. MC CLESKEY: You are not going to enter it as 20 an exhibit?
21 MS. LETSCHE: It will come in as an attachment to 22 our testimony.
23 MS. MC CLESKEY: Okay, fine.
24 MS. LETSCHE: On the next couple of pages of your
- 25 testimony, Mr. Daverio and Mr. McCaffrey, you go through and v
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- 1. describe how'the rumor control and public inquiry _ process
. 2 works. I would like to go through that with you, and'I think.
3 using this chart which we all have might make it easier to I 4 follow.
2- 5 First of all, you-note in your testimony here on 6 page 52 that in addition to the EBS messages that were 7 broadcast during the exercise, which told-the public they
> 8 should call their LILCO district office for more information, 9 that the LILCO public brochure and local telephone books also
. 10 would instruct people to' call with their questions during an 11 emergency,-right?
12 -
WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
13 MS. LETSCHE: And on this chart, we would start at 14 the bottom where we have the public inquiries coming in with l
15 the arrows would go to either the district offices on the 16 left or the LILCO call boards over on the right, and what you
- 17 say in your testimony is that when those calls come in, this j 18 is in the answer to question 101, the operator attempts to 19 answer the question from the information already available to 20 him or her, i
21 Looking at this chart, I assume that by the 22 operators with respect to the LILCO district offices, you are 23 talking about particular people who have been designated f 24 ahead of time as operators for rumor control who would take 25 these calls; is that right?
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2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The answer is yes, but the 3 title according to the procedure are call " board 4 assistants." These are people that normally work at that 5 location and have previously_been trained.
6 MS. LETSCHE: I was referring to the district 7 offices,.Mr. McCaffrey. I was just trying to relate who the 8 personnel is that you refer to in your testimony as an 9 operator. When you see, when a call is received by a call 10 board or district office, the operator attempts to answer the l 11 question from the information already availabic to him. Who 12 is the operator in the LILCO district offices who performs 13 this function?
14 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: These would be people that 15 are called customer account representatives that normally 16 function at the district office and have been trained by the 17 emergency organization.
18 MS. LETSCHE: I'm sorry, have they been trained by 19 the on-site organization, correct?
20 . WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
21 JUDGE PARIS: Customer account what?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Representatives.
23 MS. LETSCHE: And at the LILCO call boards, I take 24 it that there are people whose job it is to be a telephone 25 operator would take the calls? Or is that what you remember ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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i 30616.0 KSW 3606 N J' 1 saying before, called call board assistants?
2 WITNESS DAVERIO: There are two categories of 3 people that would be call board operators, which is the first 4 in the right-hand box, you have the first one. That would be 5 any of the operators who work down in the customer call board 6 for hurricanes or any kind of emergencies. A subset of them 7 have been trained to be assis tants. They would be the ones 8 managing the rumor control phones and answering the 9 questions. The operators will take any spill-over calls they 10 couldn't handle and either put them on hold or log them and 11 get back to them. The assistants would be the ones we're 12 talking about for directly answering questions.
(G_) 13 MS. LETSCHE: These assistants at the call boards, 14 I take it -- have these assistants at the call boards also 15 been trained by the on-site organization?
16 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes, they have.
17 MS. LETSCHE: And on the date of the exercise, the 10 information available to the, and I will refer to them now as 19 operators just for ease of reference, the opera tors at the 20 district offices or the call boards was at least in theory 21 was supposed to have been the EBS messages, the LERO and 22 LILCO press releases; is that right?
23 WITNESS DAVERIO: By the on-site procedures, they 24 were to be using copies of the appropriate public information 25 brochure if one had been issued, copies of their procedures, g
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_ KSW 3607 1 maps showing the evacuation routes which they had been given, 2 copies of press releases and copies of ERS press releases.
3 That's.in EPIP 4-4.
4 MS. LETSCHE: When you say copies of the 5 procedures, you are referring to the on-site procedures, 6 correct?
7 WITNESS DAVERIO: Those are their procedures.
O JUDGE PARIS: What was that answer?
9 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, you go on in your description 11 on page 52 to say that if the operator cannot answer a 12 question from the information available to him or her, which 13 we have just listed, then the question is recorded on the 14 district officer call board's log and on a rumor control 15 inquiry form. Am I correct that in general, this logging in 16 is done by separate individuals from the operators at both 17 the district offices and the call boards?
18 WITNESS DAVERIO: At the customer call board it 19 would be filled out by the coordinator per procedure.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Are you still looking about the 21 district offices or do we just not know about that one?
22 (Panel conferring.)
23 WITNESS DAVERIO: It is the supervisor on duty at 24 the district office.
25 MS. LETSCHE: Now, just so that we al] know what ace. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202 347 3700 Nationwide Coverage 800 336-tM6
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1 we're talking about, am I correct that samples of the log 2 forms and the rumor inquiry forms are included in what is 3 attachment S to your testimony?
4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I have only gone through the 5 first three, but what you have in the attachment is the log 6 maintained at the particular district office. The first 7 three happen to be Patchogue, followed by the master log 8 maintained at the rumor control headquarters, which is the 9 central place that the ID numbers are assigned.
10 MS. LETSCHE: In between, for the first three 11 documents in here, one in between that's headed " rumor 12 control inquiry form" is that separate form, right?
O
(_/ 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
14 MS. LETSCHE: Going back to the process here, 15 assuming the operator can't answer the question from the 16 materials that we have identified he or she would have, the 17 operator then, after the thing has been logged in and there's 18 a form filled out, the operator then calls rumor control at 19 the ENC for the answer. Now, is there a particular person at 20 the ENC who is this rumor control person you talk about in 21 your next answer whom these operators call?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I'm trying to recall from the 23 day of the exercise, there were probably five or six people 24 sitting around the table with different phones.
- 25 MS. LETSCHE: These are people who are part of the
%/
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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30616.0 KSW 3609 1 external communication' staff under your plan, right?
WITNESS MC CAFFREY:
2 Yes.
3 MS. LETSCHE . Did you say three or four, four or 4 five?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Five or six, I said.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Are these individuals again trained 7 by the on-site organization?
i 0 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Is their sole function intended'to 10 be this rumor control telephone manning?
4 11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I need to check the procedure 12 a minute.
.p p
d .13 WITNESS DAVERIO: If you look at EPIP 4-7, which 14 explains the emergency preparedness on-site organization, 15 there's a description of their responsibilities, and they all 16 are related to this rumor control function, so I do not 17 believe they perform any other functions.
18 JUDGE PARIS: We don't have that in the testimony, 19 do we? We have EPIP 4-4.
20 WITNESS DAVERIO: This is the way the EPIPs are 21 set up: there's one procedure, 4-7, which gives the 4
22 organization chart and a job description for each of the i
. 23 people who have a function. It is a summary way of outlining 24 how the organization works for the news organization. I 25 don't believe it is attached to our testimony.
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30616.0
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1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: You could obtain essentially 2 the same information in section 5.6.2 in 4-4. The question, 3 'I guess, is are they dedicated people. The answer is yes.
N 4 MS. LETSCHE: Now, when these five or six leople i 5 receive a call from either the district office or a call 6 board operator, according to your testimony, they again fill 7 out another rumor control form with that information, right?
WITNESS MC CAFFREY:
8 Yes.
9 MS. LETSCHR: And after they get -- then they get 10 an ID number from somebody who is in' charge of this master 11 log at the ENC, right?
12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
13 MS. LETSCHE: And then that number is given back 14 to the district office or call board operators?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I suspect it is done 16 concurrently while they are on the open communication line.
17 MS. LETSCHS: Now, you go on to say, I'm over at 18 page 53 of your testimony, that the rumor control person at 19 the ENC, which are these five or six people in external 20 communications, immediately provides the call board or 21 district office with an answer to the question. I asstime 22 that means if they are abic to. Would those people also have :
1 23 availabic to them the -- let me rephrase that.
j 24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't accept your 25 statement.
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'q,1 1 MS. LETSCIIE : I haven't finished. I'm going to 2 say it again. Don't bother accepting or not accepting it 3 yet.
4 You say in your testimony on page 53, 5 Mr. McCaffrey, that if possible, rumor control at the ENC 6 immediately provides the call board or district office with 7 an answer to the question.
8 I assume that means that if possible, one of thesc 9 five or six people manning the phones would provide that 10 answer if possible; is that right?
11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The personnel in following 12 their procedure would transcribe the information on the form D
d 13 and would undoubtedly talk to their nupervisor, who could 14 t. hen provide the answer. I would not expect them to on their 15 own give the answer. If the supervisor doesn't have it, that 16 would be routed to appropriate people at the ENC, whether it 17 be on-site or off-site for that answer.
10 MS. LETSCllEt I see. So generally these operators 19 or five or six external communications people would not on 20 their own give an answer to the call board or district 2L office, they would go first to their supervisor, right?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Generally, no.
23 MS. LETSCllEs Now, I take it that there's one of 24 these rumor control supervisors at the ENC, right?
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: In effect, there are actually g
(._J' ACE. FEDERAL. REponTEns, INC.
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30616.0 n KSW 3612
, i J
1 two. If you look at the organization chart, the public 2 information coordinator and the external communication 3 coordinator'are working side by side, and in fact, the PIC as
, 4 it is called, is intended to assist the external 5 communication coordinator in doing his job. What you really 6 see standing there is two people helping run the rumor 7 control function.
8 MS. LETScilE Who is it that the five or six 9 external communication staff members getting the calls need 10 to go to before they get an answer back, the public 11 information coordinator or the external communications 12 coordinator?
ID
, V 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Primarily to the external 14 communication coordinator, who would then move about the 15 facility to obtain the answer. The staff people do not leave 16 the phones to get the information because they are awaiting 17 another call coming in. Ilowever, if the external
- 10 cominunication coordinator is away at the moment, the public 19 information coordinator serves that function.
l 20 MS. LETSCllH In terms of going around the 21 facility, an I think you put it, to find the answer, l 22 according to your testimony, the supervisor, we'll call him i
23 for short, goes to the emergency news manager under the I version of the plan that was exercised, right?
24 l 25 WITNESS MC CAFFHEY: tlnder that version, yen.
i l ACE. FEDERAL REvonTERs, INC.
l 202-347 37m Nationwide Cmerage an336MI6 l
L 30616.0 KSW 3613 1 MS. LETSCHE: And the emergency news manager then, 2 'according to the answer to question 103 in your testimony, 3 was responsible for deciding whether the question should be 4 answered by LERO or by LILCO, right?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes, or answering it 6 himself.
7 MS. LETSCllE Right. And then you mention in your 8 testimony that now the procedures have been changed so that 9 the supervisor has the option of going around the emergency
- - 10 news manager to get an answer. I take it that means that in 11 that instance, the supervisor would himseJf or herself make 12 the decision on whether the question should be answered'by 13 LERO or LILCO, right?
1 14 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
15 MS. LETSCllE You go on in your testimony in the 16 answer to ques tion 104 to explain how the supervisor, or on i
- 17 the day of the exercise it would have been the emergency news 18 manager, decides whether an inquiry should go to LERO or
! 19 LILCO. The emergency news manager as well as both the 20 supervisors we're talking about are membora of the on-site 21 organization, right?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
23 MS. 1.ETSCllE So the drilling and training which 24 you mention here on pago 53 of your testimony that the i 25 supervisors have received ja drilling and training by the i
i Ace FuonnAL RneonTnns, INC. I i 202 347 3700 Nationwkfe Cmcrage sn33MM6
30616.0 7s KSW 3614 V) f 1 on-site organization, right?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No. The reason is because 3 all training is done by the on-site organization, but the 4 drills which I regard as another piece of training is a joint 5 function. Therefore, the on-site and off-site people are 6 used to training together in that regard.
7 MS. LETSCHE: We're now going to see what happens O depending on whether it is a LERO or LILCO question.
9 If it is a LILCO question, you talk about that 10 first in your testimony, which carries over to the top of 11 page 54. An example that you give here, in order to get an 12 answer, i f the news manager or the supervisor doesn't know bV 13 it, they would call the EOF first. I take it that's always 14 going to be the first place they would call for plant-related 15 information?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No.
17 MS. LETSCIIE: What other places would be called to 10 obtain that kind of information?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: As I think we described 20 previously, the ENC is sitting at the hub of a wealth of 21 information, and we are plugged in real t.ime to the TPC, EOF, 22 LEHO, who in there, and in addition the staf f at the ENC 23 under the emergency news manager includes nuclear engineers 24 who work in the plant who understand the plant, and those are 25 the people that tranulate for me all the technical Act. FEDERAL Rnronrnns, INC.
202 4 47 3700 Nationwide Cmcrage sub))M,646
-30616.0 KSW 3615 1 informationsowecantrytopItitoutinourpress 2 conferences.
3 MS. LETSCHE: Are these nuclear engineers located 4 at the ENC?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
6 MS. LETSCHE: I see. Now, focusing on a question 7 which would go to LERO, which you discuss in the answer to 8 question 107 on page 54, I take it that the first stop would 9 be someone of the LERO public information staff that you 10 described before, Ms. Robinson?
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
12 MS. LETSCHR: And that staff person would, I take 13 it, bring the inquiry to a communicator, who would then log 14 it in?
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: Physically, the inquiry is 16 usually brought in by a LILCO person to the LERO work spaco 17 and immediately logged.
la MS. LETSCHE: When we talk about the inquiry, we 19 are talking about the rumor control form?
20 WITNESS ROBINSON: The actual sheet of paper with
! 21 the written rumor or inquiry on it.
22 MS. LETSCHE: Af ter it is then logged in by LERO 23 into its log, according to your tustimony here, if someone is 24 able to answer the question at that point, they do so. That
! 25 is, I take it, would be one of the I.ERO public information i
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30616.0 KSW 3616 1 staff people who would answer the question?
, 2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right, based on the background i 3 information we have there, i 4 MS. LETSCHE: Right. They are authorized to do 5 that without going to anyone else; is that right?
6 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
-7 MS. LRTSCHR: Now, if they are not able to answer 8 the question based upon whatever information they have 9 available to them, then according to your testimony, the 10 communicator calls the question in to the EOC. Is the 11 communicator the same person who does the logging in, or is 12 that another person?
13 WITNESS ROBINSON: The way it normally works --
14 and there were exceptions where there was only one person
', 15 there, no they had to write and telephone. It normally works l 16 this way: There's a person on the tolophone and an I
17 administrative assiatant assigned to us would be actually 10 writing in the log, but it could be done by one person if
. 19 they had to; it in junt better if you have two people doing 20 it.
I 21 MS. LETSCHE And that person or persons, whoever t
j 22 it lu, calls the pubite information support staff at the EOC, 23 and then that pornon at the EOC, I take 3t, logu it Jn over 24 the EOC; correct?
l I 25 WITNESS ROHINSON: Hight.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: Atter that logging in process, some 2 public information staff member at the EOC does whatever 3 needs to be done to obtain the answer; right?
4 WITNESS ROHINSON: Right; either from a status 5 board or doing to an appropriate coordinator and then coming 6 back.
7 MS. LETScilE: Now, ho'w many public information a staff people are at the EOC?
9 WITNESS ROBINSON: I can't give you an exact 10 number for the day of the exercise, because in certain 11 functions they did bring in other people from other shifts, 12 but it would be approximately half a dozen.
A U 13 MS. LETScilE : Are the public information staff 14 members at the EOC authorized to provide answers to these 15 public inquiries or rumors themselves or do they have to go 16 to the coordinator before they do so?
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: If they know the information or 10 can get it from a status board they can do it without going 19 to another coordinator.
20 MS. LETScilEs And I gather from your answers that 21 the entire process that we have been discussing here is 22 reversed in order to get the answer to an inquiry back down 23 to an operator who would then call back the person who had 24 started the process; right?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes.
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1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes, that's generally 2 correct; but as I said earlier, I don't agree with the way 3 this chart is. I think it is incomplete.
4 MS. LETSCilEt The way the chart is?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
6 MS. LETScilE Why don't you tell us what is 7 incomplete about it?
8 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: What this chart implies, if 9 you look at it at first blush, is that at the ENC, all the 10 inquirieu go to the emergency news manager and he knows the 11 information and provides the answer back. What you are 12 missing is the solid and dotted line that goes to the TFC, 13 the ELF, and then you have the complete picture. By "him" I 14 mean anybody under his jurisdiction, which could be the 15 engineers I referred to who then make the contacts for him.
16 MS. LETSCIIE : You are right. This was not 17 intended to cover the on-sito questions, but I'm glad you 10 gave us that information so we have the whoin picture.
19 Now, going to page 55 of your testimony, in the 20 answer to question number 100, you say that "for the most 21 part, calls from the public are received by district offices 22 and call boardn, but on the day of the exercise nome public 23 inquiries were called directly into rumor control at the 24 ENC," and then you reference media responne at the ENC. Arc 25 the media response personnel also on-site personnel?
Act Friniinat. RitronTiins, INC, 202 347 3700 Nationwide cmcrage m 3 m u,v,
30616.0- .
KSW 3619 1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
2 MS. LETSCHE: I take it they are separate from the 3 media monitoring personnel we discussed earlier?
4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
5 MS. LETSCHE: Are they also separate from the 6 external communications staff people, the five or six people ,
7 we have been discussing as yart of the the rumor control 8 staff, or is that who they are?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Separate.
10 MS. LETSCHE: How many media response personnel l 11 are therei 12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I need to check the 13 procedure.
14 WITNESS DAVERIO: I could be wrong, but that chart i 15 doesn't match the one you gave us. There are sone arrows 16 that point in different directions.
17 MS. LETSCHR: You are correct that there will be 18 corrections as we go through the testimony.
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: We can't find the procedure, a
20 but our recollectlon on the date of the exercise was in the 21 range ot' two to four people. ;
22 MS. 1.ETScilEs According to the procedure in EPIP 23 4-3, the media response personnel are instructed to respond 24 to telephone media inquirlos only by providing the ;
25 information in approved press releases; right?
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()
1 WITIJESS MC CAFFREY: Could you repeat the 2 question?
3 MS. LETSCilE: According to the procedure, media 4 response personnel are instructed to respond to telephone 5 media inquiries by reading approved press releases; right?
6 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes, that's what it says there.
7 MS. LETSCilEt And they are told to refer any a emergency questions to appropriate organizations; right?
9 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct. I would also 10 expect, though, that if they were asked a background question 11 that was contained in a brochure or some other publicly known 12 document, I would feci they could give that information out O
V 13 also.
14 MS. LETSCllE Do those people have access to the 15 emergency brochures?
16 WITNESS DAVERIO: There would be many copies of 17 that at the ENC. That wouldn't be a problem.
i 10 MS. LETSCllE You also say in your testimony, 19 though, that if a media person wants more detailed 20 information he would be instructed by the media response 21 personnel to go to the ENC Ltself; correct?
22 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
23 MS. LETSCilE You go on in your testimony to 24 describe the information that rumor control personnel used 25 this to answer public inquiries, and I think we've gone over b.)
v Acn Fununat Runonruns. INC.
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KSW 3621 ,
U L a little bit of this. You discuss how on the day of the 2 exercise they received some of this information and compare 3 it to how they would do it -- how they would receive it under 4 your new revision.
5 On the day of the exercise, since you didn't have 6 the summary sheets yet, they were to receive EBS messages and 7 LERO and LILCO news releases that were to be telecopied to O them; right?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
10 MS. LETScils: And you are now proposing to have 11 them receive the one-page summary sheets and the LERO and 12 LILCO news releases; right?
A U 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
14 MS. LETSCllE Rather than having them telecopied, 15 though, at this point you are proposing under revision 7 that 16 all LILCO and LERO news releases and the one-page summary 17 sheets would be transmitted to them over this TSO computer; la right?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
20 MS. LETScilE : Wasn't a computer also used --
21 system used on the day of the exercise to communicate with 22 the call boards and district offices?
23 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
24 MS. LETSCllE And in that any dirferent from the 25 TSO computer you are now proposing to une?
v
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-s KSW 3622 i ( ')
gj 1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Not as a machine, but in the 2 process it is absolutely different.
3 WITNESS DAVERIO: If I could maybe clarify that.
4 There's two computer systems. There's a TSO computer system, 5 a time sharing option Ms. Robinson talked about. The 6 customer service people are on a CICS system, and at the time 7 of the exercise, they would have that CICS link but it was 8 not tied to TSO. Since then, it is my understanding we've 9 put together a computer link that translates TSO into CICS so 10 it can print out in the other system.
11 WITNESS ROBINSON: If I might add one additional 12 detail to that to close out the loop, they do not necessarily C 13 have to, all these personnel, have at their desks terminals, 14 and were there a printer problem they could pull the 15 information up on their terminal.
16 MS. LETSCHE: When you say all the personnel --
17 WITNESS ROBINSON: The personnel at the district 18 offices, the customer account reps and the people at the call 19 boards have terminals at their desks or work stations.
20 MS. LETScilE: Would you turn, please, to page 56 21 of your testimony? You talk there about the one rumor which 22 surfaced, which we mentioned briefly'before. You say the 23 emergency news manager made his announcement immediately 24 af t er discovering that this question had been asked more than 25 once. In general, is that the only criteria for, to your i
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.1 knowledge,' deciding that there is a rumor __that has surfaced, 2 if something has.been repeated more than once, or a.
3 ' question?'
-4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Our criteria is in general to 5 look for.a repeated theme of incorrect information, no matter.
6 .what you call.it, and to go correct that misinformation.
-7 MS. LETSCHE: I take it that during the exercise, 8 the only-instance of a repeated theme of a question was-the s
- 9 one you mention here, whether-the plant could blow up; ,
l
. 10 right?
i 11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
!. 12 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it - ;
13 . JUDGE FRYE By " repeated" you mean more than i '14 -once?-
i 15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY ' Four times to.be exact. It 16 came up on number 4, number 20, number 26, number 24. It 17 showed up four different times.
10 JUDGE FRYE: That's your general standard for 19 repeated, four repetitions? -
- . 20 WITNESS MC CAFFREY
- No, if I saw it twice I would i
- 21 probably recommend that we take care of it. This one came up 22 four times, though.
23 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it that your answer to
. 24 the question whether LILCO adequately dispelled rumors, which
! i l 25 in yes, they did, on the day of the exercise, is based on O-i
.i -
I ace FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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30616.0
- . - KSW 3624
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s _. /
1 your position that there was only one rumor that needed to be 2 addressed; right?
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
4 M3. LETSCHE: Under the new procedure, the 5 emergency news manager would be bypassed in this rumor 6 control system, so under the new procedure --
7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's not correct.
8 MS. LETSCHE: It is not? I thought that was what 9 you had said earlier.
10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY:. No, you said that. You said 11 he was bypassed on the way up.' Ycu never addressed the issue 12 of the return path where he cannot get bypassed.
k_ 13 MS. LETSCHE: So the eliminating a step in the 14 process only takes place on the way in, not on the way out; 15 right?
16 WITNESS MC CAPFREY: For the sole purpose of 17 expediting the obtaining of the information. You go back 18 through the emergency news manager to make sure it is correct 19 before it is released.
20 MS. LETSCHE: It is the emergency news manager who 21 makes the decision abotit whether there has been repetition 22 and whether there needs to be something said to the press; 23 right?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: He makes that ultimate 25 decision in concert with other people, or it is his 7-V ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347-3700 Nationwide Coverage 800-336-6M6
30616.0
,q KSW 3625 1 decision.
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: Excuse me. That's for the 3 on-site. For LERO those would come through me, and I'would I
4 make that decision or whoever was filling that position on 5 shift.
6 MS.' LETSCHE: I take it that any questions could 7 be repeated any number of times, and if they did not make 8 their way up to the emergency news manager because they had 9 been answered at one of the earlier stages, then he wouldn't 10 have an opportunity to make a corrective announcement, would 11 he?
12 (Panel conferring.)
) 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: If the response is given
- 14 directly at the tentacles of the operation, the district 15 offices or the call board, that's correct; but if it is fed 16 back to central control, the supervisor would be monitoring t n 17 the log for repetition.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Dr. Mileti, you have an answer' 19 beginning on page 56 and carries over to page 57. This is 20 your answer to question number 112, and there's a sentence in 21 here which I absolutely do not understand.
22 WITNESS MILETI: I beg your pardon. I would be 23 happy to try to explain.
24 MS. LETSCHE: Let me ask you a question rather
~ 25 than just having you explain. You say here that real rumors (J
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347-3700 Nationwide Coserage 800-336-6646
) _- ._- . . . __ _ _ _ . _
a 30616.0
- c. KSW 3626 I )
V 1 are things that multiple members of a public believe and 2 people rarely ask questions about things which they believe.
3 Are you saying here that if -- it is true, is it 4 not, that someone will call a number such as this one 5 advertised by LILCO during the exercise because they are 6 Jooking for some kind of information?
/ WITNESS MILETI: I presume some people would and 8 some would not.
9 MS. LETSCHE: But the only -- people would not 10 call if they were not looking for some kind of information or 11 an answer, would they?
12 WITNESS MILETI: I presume there's a small gs 13 probability a person could call for a different reason, but 14 in general, yes.
15 MS. LETSCHE: And presumably they would make that 16 call because they had a belief that they need the information 17 or that they want the information or that somebody has it to la give it to them; right?
19 WITNESS MILETI: That seems a safe bet, yes.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Now, what you seem to be saying here 21 is that people rarely ask questions about things which they 22 believe, and that rumors are things that people already I
23 ,believe, and therefore no one would call in with a rumor, is <
[ 24 that what you are saying here? J i
fs 25 WITNESS MILETI: No.
T-(J ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
202-347-3700 Nationwide Coverage 800 336-6646
30616.0.
s KSW 3627 V.
1 MS. LETSCHE: Why don't you tell us what you are 2 saying here.
3 WITNESS MILETI: I will try. I meant to say there 4 that a real rumor, to the extent it could permeate an 5 emergency and have an effect on public perception would be 6 something that the public in general would believe. The 7 relevant information regarding a potential for such rumors 8 would be information that could affect their response or 9 decision about what to do because of what was going on during 10 the emergency.
11 I have always maintained, even though it is not 12 defined as rumor control, that a good EBS system is the best
-(-
O) 13 way to nip rumors about relevant information in the bud.
14 That is, before people start believing ~the wrong thing, so 15 that whether or not people call in or don't call in or call 16 their mother or call someone else to get an answer to a 17 question they might have, if it is about the relevant 10 information, the EDS system has already provided the kind of 19 information we need to keep those more significant sorts of 20 potential rumors out of the minds of people during the 21 emergency.
22 MS. LETSCHE: So basically, this analysis or 23 statement that you have in here goes to or is related to your 24 definition of a rumor and wouldn't really be applicable to 25 just an inquiry, which is a separate matter that the system 7-
\_)
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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-. KSW 3628 v
1 is also intended to handle; right?
2 WITNESS MILETI: I think it is possible, for 3 example, as was simulated, that if.somebody had a question 4 about a lobster or another form of lunch, that they might 5 call'in and ask about it. That's theoretically possible. I 6 don't know of any other kind of emergency management except 7 nuclear power plants that even have this kind of call-in 8 board.
9 MS. LETSCHE: In the answer to question 113, 10 Mr. McCaffrey, you say that during the exercise LILCO 11 adequately corrected misinformation based on the activities, 12 and you note in the fourth sentence, I believe,_"there were a 13 few questions for which the district office or call board did 14 not give the caller the most current information because the.
15 most recent news release had not been telecopied to them."
16 Then you say that problem has been corrected through the 17 adoption of the new procedures. I'm correct, aren't I, that 18 that problem would be-corrected only if the summary sheet or 19 the news release that, under your new procedure, would be 20 transmitted to these-people contained the information that 21 was being requested by the caller?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct, but the 23 ' deficiencies here were ones related to timing, as I recall, 24 of evacuation, and therefore the summary sheet would have
-y 25 addressed those specific deficiencies.
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- 3629' O_KSW 1 MS. LETSCHE: This would be a good place for me to 2 take a break.
3 JUDGE FRYE: We'll take our afternoon break.
4 (Recess.)
5 JUDGE FRYE: Back on the record.
6 MS. LETSCHE: I'm going'to ask some questions.
7 about your answers relating to subpart A of Contention 39.
8 The first question relating to that is on the bottom of page
~
9 57 and your answer begins on page 58. In the answer on the 10 top of 58 and the one on the rest of the page,-you explain 11 why'you think the subparts unfairly criticize what. happened 12 at the exercise. You say that -- I take it that you don't:
! d. 13 dispute, do you, the facts, that is the times of event, that 14 are set forth in contention -- subpart A of contention 39?.
I 15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No, we do not.
16 MS. LETSCHE: You state, though, that you believe 17 that the contention.is misleading, this is in the middle of-l 18 the paragraph which is the answer to question 115, "because
( 19 they ignore the fact that call boards and district offices 20 are not required to be operational that early in an 21 emergency." Now, I take it you are referring to the times 22 in, for instance, subpart 4, which refers to an 8:15 time; is 23 that right? Is that one of the "too early in the emergency" 24 that you are referring to?
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: What's the question again?
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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- KSW 3630 1 :MS. LETSCHS: Let me try to restate it Subpart'4 o 2 of Contention 39'is'the one you'are talking' abo'ut here. Just 3 so that we all know'what we're talking about, sit'says " logs.
4 kept by the call board operators indicate that the-operators 5 did not receive word of a declaration of an' unusual event 6 until'approximately 8:15, even though it had been declared at-
- 7 5
- 4 0. - Also,' they state that the call boards'did not learn
< 8 about tite. alert being declared until approximately-8:30, 9 although the declaration was made at 6:17, and.an EBS message
-10 had been broadcasted at 6:52."'- You say in your testimony on 11 that page, "although the times are correct,- they :are 12 misleading because of the fact that.they completely ignore
- . . m .
13 the fau:t that the call boards and district of fices are not-14 required-to be operational that early in an emergency." I-i 15 take-it that the times'which you consider too early to have i
16 required these to be operational is the 8:15 to 8:30 time; 17 right?
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The call boards and district 19 offices are part of the on-site program and they become 20 activated when the ENC was activated. That was 8:25. Yes, 21 it is unreasonable to expect that function to be functioning 22 prior to 8:25.
4 23 MS. LETSCHE: The requirement as to when the call 24 board and the district offices are to be operational is one
. 25 that is contained in your plan, isn't it?
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l 30616.0 s KSW 3631 l N_]s l 1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes. !
2 MS. LETSCHE: It is not contained in any other 3 regulations or documents setting forth requirements?
4 WITNESS DAVERIO: I think I testified yesterday 5 concerning what 0654 stated about briefing the press at a 6 site area emergency on an alert. I gave reference to 8 --
7 MS. LETSCHE: We're talking about setting up a 8 call board at district offices, here, Mr. Daverio.
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: We don't know of any 10 regulatory requirement.
Il MS. LETSCHE: Now, in light of this procedural 12 requirement in the LILCO plan, which says that the call (D boards and district offices don't become' operational until
's_f 13 14 the ENC becomes operational, it is true,-is it not, that 15 prior to activation of the ENC, if the public calls in to 16 their district offices or call boards with questions, they 17 might not be able to get answers, right?
18 (Panel conferring.)
19 WITNESS DAVERIO: If you look at EPIP 4-1, section 20 S.5, "If the public information coordinator was directed to 21 go to the corporate information department," which we 22 discussed yesterday, "he would assist in rumor control if the 23 call boards or the district offices were getting called."
24 You have to remember the call boards are a normal function of 25 the company that would be occurring 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day whether i 1 QJ ace FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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[ \ 1 xy 1 there was an emergency at Shoreham or not. We handle 2 emergencies every day with lines out . cur gas emergencies, so 3 he would be getting the information, as we discussed 4 yesterday, from the ECO at the control room. He would be 5 talking to that person in the control room and he could be 6 assisting the call boards or the district offices, if 7 required, under rumor control procedure 4-4, as it is stated 8 there.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Now, the procedure that you just 10 referred to, Mr. Daverio, EPIP 4-1, is the public information 11 for notification of an unusual event; correct?
12 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's correct.
) 13 MS. LETSCHE: There are separate procedures that 14 . apply to higher alerts and site area emergencies?
15 WITNESS DAVERIO: Right. They would try to get 16 there as quick as they could to function from there.
17 MS. LETSCHE: The public would not know to call 18 the corporate communications department if it had a question 19 prior to the activation of the call boards and the district 4
20 offices?
21 WITNESS DAVERIO: The call boards and district 22 offices are not activated. They function 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day
- 23 every day of the year whether there's an emergency or not.
24 MS. LETSCHE: Then what is the pertinence of your 25 testimony on page 58 which says it is unfair to criticize ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 what happened during the incident because they are not 2 required to be in operation that early in an emergency?
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The point is that by our 4 approved procedures, they are not required to be operational, 5 but they would nonetheless, as Mr. Daverio said, be available 6 to provide a communication function and they would have 7 access to that information.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Then let's follow that up a little, 9 Mr. McCaffrey. What information is it that they would have 10 prior to the activation of the ENC?
11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: They would have to call for 12 that information.
p
\/
- 13 MS. LETSCHE: If the public did call one of these 14 24-hour available district offices or call board operators, 15 they would not be able to give any answers about the 16 emergency without having to call and find it; right?
17 WITNESS DAVERIO: They would call or -- as I have 18 been called at 3:00 in the morning to be asked a question 19 about something going on. That happens all the time.
20 MS. LETSCHE: You say in your testimony that 21 "Once, and this is also on page 58, near the bottom, once the 22 ENC is activated, some time is needed to notify, mobilize and 23 set up the ENC and rumor control network." What is involved 24 in setting up the rumor control network, Mr. McCaffrey, 25 beyond the activation of the ENC?
v ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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.d 1 MS. MC CLESKEY: Judge, I'm going to object to the
, 2 question as minutia. I think we have heard a lot of detailed 3 questions and answers about the procedures and the staffing 4 and the workings of the rumor control'and the public 5 information centers, and I think we're getting to the point 6 of. greatly diminishing returns.
7 JUDGE FRYE: Where are we going with.this?
8 MS. LETSCilE : Judge Frye, the witnesses are taking 9 the position that there's nothing improper or inappropriate.
10 about the fact that these call boards and district offices 11 had inaccurate information or didn't have information at the 12 time stated in these contentions because they were not
) 13 activated, and they explained that by saying it takes time to 14 activate these networks. Then we just heard something else 15 about how they are available 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day. I think I?m 16 entitled to establish what the witnesses originally meant 17 when they said they can't do anything until they are i 18 activated. If there is something -- there must have been 19 some reason for them to have said it in this testimony that 20 would mean that the activation is in fact necessary.
21 JUDGE FRYE: What is the contention? It goes to 22 rumor control.
23 MS. LETSCHE: The contention goes to whether or 24 not the call board and district office operators were able to 25 provide accurate and timely information in response to public ace FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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.V 1 inquiries. And it is the witnesses' testimony as to why they-2 believe the contention is inaccurate.
3 MS. MC CLESKEY: This particular answer, I 4 believe,. focuses on A-4, which takes up the issue of whather 5 they.are receiving word of an unusual event at 8:15 and an 6 alert-at 8:30 was untimely. I don't think we need to get 7 into the entire rumor control network, which I think we've 8 already talked a lot about, in order to respond to this 9 contention or the testimony.
10 JUDGE FRYE: I.have been concerned -- I don't 11 know, I guess at this point I am not sure.whether you are
-12 going into something that is important.or not, but I have 13 been concerned we're getting into an awful lot of minutia 14 that I don't see is valuable to the record. .Maybe I'm 15 missing something. It seems to me some of it is probably 16 already in the record in the form of the plan.
17 MS. LETSCHE: No, this is not in the record, Judge 18 Frye. This is a portion of the on-site plan which is totally 19 separate.
20 MS. MC CLESKEY: The reason it is not in the 21 records is that the county defaulted on their on-site 22 contentions and we never litigated it.
23 JUDGE FRYE: Okay, do you have an answer to the 24 question?
25 JUDGE PARIS: Do you remember what the question ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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V 1 was?
2 MS. LETSCHE: The question was what did you mean
- 3 in your testimony down here, Mr. McCaffrey, when you said it 4 takes time to set up the rumor control network? What's 5 involved in that?-
'6 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: What I need to do is refer to 7 EPIP 4-4, and emergency news center activation, 4-6.
8 MS. LETSCHE: We can set aside ENC activation. We 9 know what's involved and how that fits into the rumor control 10 activation. The question is what else is involved in the 2' 11 rumor control network activation other than' setting up the r
12 ENC?
.(
's-) 13 MS. MC CLESKEY: I object to that question.
14 JUDGE FRYE: Is there more to it than just setting 15 up the ENC?
16 WITNESS DAVERIO: The district offices,.as I have 17 stated, should be plugged in. The customer call boards at 18 the centers should be plugged in. They function all the 19 time. The only other thing that might have a bearing on l-20 setting it up is some of the LERO functions have to be set up 4
21 at the EOC to be able to communicate with the ENC. There may 22 also be some links that we could argue might be beneficial l
l 23 from EOF to the ENC, but those are basically setting up the 24 facilities and getting the staff there would be the two major 25 topics, if you want to talk about major topics.
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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-1 JUDGE FRYE: When you said " plugged in" I gather 2 you were talking about existing operations,. day-to-day 3 operations? What are you plugging them into?
4 WITNESS DAVERIO: They are already there working.
.5 What we have to do, we would be calling out additional people 6 to man the call boards when we activate the ENC. They are 7 manned 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />. You would bring additional staff in to help 8 with the increased volume we would expect.
9 JUDGE FRYE: You would. plug them into some 10 facility for information, I suppose?
11 JUDGE PARIS: Alerting them that something is-12 going on?
13 WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes. The computer systems are 14 all there already. There would be nothing they have to plug 15 in. I may have used a word improperly.
16 JUDGE FRYE: 'That's why I-picked it up. I. thought 17 you were using it in the sense of getting a communication or-18 an informational exchange established between them and 19 someone who-has answers to questions. I don't know whether 20 that's what you meant or not.
21 WITNESS DAVERIO: No, I should have maybe not used 22 the word " plug in." They may get a call they can't answer 23 and they would go look for the answer. I have seen that 24 happen where we have had a spurious activation of a siren, 25 they looked for someone who knew what that meant.
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,_ KSW 3638 1 MS. LETSCHE: On the top of page 59 of your 2 testimony you address the allegation contained in subpart 5 3 of. Contention 39-A. It says that "most call board operators 4 didn't. receive word that schools were supposed to be 5 implementing early dismissals until approximately 8:50, 6 although an EBS message regarding that was simulated at 7 6:52." You are not disputing the times set forth in the 8 contention; correct?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
10 MS. LETSCHE: You are just again saying that's not 11 a problem, because according to the LILCO procedures, the 12 call boards and district offices don't have to be activated fh s_/ 13 that early; right?
14 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
15 MS. LETSCHE: In the answer to question 117, you 16 -talk about what you think where the public would call to have 17 questions answered prior to the_ ENC being fully operational.
18 I take it you have this in.here because, in fact, in the 19 emergency brochures the public are told, if they have any 20 questions, to call LILCO; right?
21 (Panel conferring.)
22 WITNESS ROBINSON: Ms. Letsche, I'm confused here 23 on the last question. To which part of the testimony are you 24 referring?
25 MS. LETSCHE: I'm referring to the question on ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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- - 3639
.1 ::) KSW -
si page 117 and.your answer there. The question is where would.
2 the public call to have their questions answered before the
.3 -ENCiis fully' operational. The question was -- that's the 1 4 question in the testimony. My question to you is I assume 5 that you discussed this matter in your testimony, because in 6 their public'information materials, specifically the 7 brochure,.LILCO has told the public to call LILCO if they 8 have questions about an emergency; right?
9 MS. .MC CLESKEY: Objection ~. The question is 10 outside the scope of.the= proceeding. .There was no public 11 information brochure given.out before or during the 12 exercise.
13 JUDGE FRYE: 'However that may be, I-think you --
14 it is question 117, and the answer to 117 says they would 15 call the radio stations.
16 MS. LETSCHE: The question is, Judge Frye, is it 17 not true that it is important to find out where the public 18 would. call before the ENC is activated,-because LILCO intends 19 to tell the public to call LILCO if they have. questions-about 20 an emergency. That's in your brochure, isn't it, t
'21 Ms. Robinson?
, 22 MS. MC CLESKEY: I object to the question about 23 the brochure.
i 24 JUDGE FRYE: What brochures?
t I- 25 MS. LETSCHE: .You can ask the witnesses, Judge.
l-I 14CE FEDERAL REPORTERS, lNC.
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- a. 1 They discuss it in their testimony and I can go back and find
~2 the. reference to it.
3 JUDGE FRYE: It is in the testimony; it.is a.
4 brochure that's given ou't?
5 MS. LETSCHE: It will be given out or they propose t
6 to give it out, except that it is illegal.for them to do.so.
7 In particular, let me direct you to page 52, in which these 8 witnesses say in the answer to question 101, the'public is 9 instructed in the public emergency procedures brochure and in 10 any local telephone book to call the district offices or call 11 boards with questions they may have during an emergency.
+
12 That was what I'was referring to in my question.
13 JUDGE FRYE: Overrule'd.
. 14 WITNESS ROBINSON: That's~ correct.
[I -15 MS. LETSCHE: Now, you say here in this answer-I, 16 that when the ENC is not operational, and presumably, as you 17 have just discussed in the earlier part of this testimony,
.18 when the call boards and the district offices are not
- j. 19 operational, you believe the public would probably call local 20 radio stations; right?
21 WITNESS ROBINSON: In addition to other places, 2
22 yes.
23 MS. LETSCHE: What you say here is local radio 24 stations.
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: Yes. I think that's one of the ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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30616.0 KSW 3641
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1 places they would definitely call.
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: We are not conceding that 3 -they are operational. They are not required to be 4 operational but they would be functional. There's a 5 distinction.
6 JUDGE PARIS: Is the call board a facility of the 7 corporate communications department?
8 WITNESS DAVERIO: The call board is part of the 9 electric system's operations department. Its primary 10 function on a day-to-day basis is to handle calls from 11 customers on emergency power outages.
12 JUDGE PARIS: I understand. They operate 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> 13 a day, seven days a week.
14 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's right.
15 WITNESS ROBINSON: Judge Frye, if I could perhaps 16 explain my answer a little bit, one of the things that we 17 have discovered over time working the phones, the media 18 information phones, is that the minute people call these call 19 boards and there's a busy line they tend to call the local 20 radio station for information. It just -- I don't know why 21 they do it, and I have no empirical evidence except that they 22 do it, and then what happens is you get a call in from the 23 local radio station on that media phone, which is not a 24 number available to the public. That was exactly what I was 25 getting here.
n)
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1 JUDGE FRYE: That qualifies your answer to 2 question 117?
3 WITNESS ROBINSON: Right. I think that <sxplains 4 it.
5 ' JUDGE FRYE: All right.
6 JUDGE SHON: Would you just clear it up for me, 7 say again why it is that at several points your testimony 8 says the call boards were not operational at 6:52 when they 9 are 24-hour-a-day items.
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: I will let them answer, but I'm 11 saying that they are operational as part of-the electric 12 system operations department. There is a staff there.
()/
\_ 13 _However, they have not at that point been activated as part 14 of the emergency operation and staffed up to that level or 15 have the communications-links with the ENC to get that level 16 of information.
17 JUDGE PARIS: They have not been briefed and they 18 don't have additional staffing?
19 WITNESS DAVERIO: That's right. They may not have 20 been trained in the nuclear procedures, so they say they are 21 there, they can answer a call, and in general they are all 22 trained to go get the information from other parts of the 23 company that have it if they have to, and I have seen them do f
24 it. And they function -- they can answer a call but it is 25 not activated, because I can't guarantee the guy on the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC, 202-347-3700 Nationwide Coverage 800-336-6646
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1 . midnight to 8:00 shift has been trained to answer nuclear 2 calls.
3 JUDGE FRYE: If he got an inquiry he wouldn't say-4 no, I don't know anything about it, he would find the answer 5 to the question.
6 WITNESS DAVERIO: As I say, I have been paged at 7 3:00 in the morning; a siren went off and they have my number
-8 to call.
9 JUDGE PARIS: Do you have to go fix it?
10 WITNESS DAVERIO: No, I make a phone call to 11 someone to fix it.
12 MS. LETSCHE: Would you all turn to page 60 of 13 your testimony? At the bottom of the page is the beginning.
14 of your discussion of part B of Contention 39. I'm. going to-15 discuss that with you.
16 Sub'part B talks about the amount of time it took 17 to provide responses to the questions asked by the public 18 during the exercise. It gives several examples and said 19 responses were delayed by 30 minutes and frequently. longer.
20 You say in the last sentence of your answer to question 120,
! 21 which appears on page 61 -- I'm sorry, strike that.
22 You say in the first sentence of your answer to i 23 question 121 that you don't believe rumor control personnel 24 took too long to respond to callers' inquiries. Is it your 25 testimony that any length of time at all would be an 1
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1 acceptable amount of time to respond to public inquiries 2 during an emergency?
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No.
4 MS. LETSCHE: But I take it in your opinion, 5 taking 30 to 60 minutes would not be an unacceptable amount 6 of time?
7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Taking anywhere from 18 to 58 8 minutes is acceptable.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Taking more than 58 would not be?
10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: No, I'm responding to the 11 particular examples here of the 35 rumors called in. The 12 range was 18 minutes to respond to 58, and even the 58 I find
("/
(_
13 reasonable.
14 MS. LETSCHE: The question is would you find an 15 hour1.736111e-4 days <br />0.00417 hours <br />2.480159e-5 weeks <br />5.7075e-6 months <br /> and a half reasonable?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: If I were looking at the one 17 where an inquiry came in about a student who got off the bus, 18 the logistics of trying to contact bus companies, since my 19 own son got lost on the bus a while back, forgot to tell his 20 mother he was going to practice, took 2-1/2 hours to chase 21 down the information -- that may be reason for that 22 situation.
23 MS. LETSCHE: It wouldn't be reasonabic for 24 others, would it?
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Depends upon the question f
ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 that came in.
2 MS. LETSCHE: You do talk about that one example, 3 rumor number 10, at Ethe bottom of page 61 and carrying over-
- 4 to page 62. You have an attachment to your testimony, which 5 is attachment'R, I believe, which sets forth the chronolgy of 6 the questions that are referenced in subpart B of the 4
7 contention. I believe I'm also correct, aren't I, that i 8 attachment S cont.ains all of the backup information, that'is 9 all of the log forma and rumor control forms and all-- of that, 10 and re' levant logs that_ relate to the same-questions; is that.
11 right?
3 12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY:- Yes. ,
~
13 MS. LETSCHE: Now, rumor number 10, which'is the t
- 14 one.that you discuss here on pages 61 and.62, is the second-15 one listed in attachment R; right?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes. .
i 17 MS. LETSCHE: And that's the one that took 52 18 minutes to provide the answer back to the caller; right?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Now, let's look for a minute at the 21 first rumor that's up there, rumor 27, the first one on 22 attachment R. That was simply an inquiry from someone asking 23 if his appliances were radioactive; right?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
25 MS. LETSCHE: And the rumor control operator ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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. KSW 3646 l(
1 presumably knew -- or let me ask you, did the rumor control 2 . operator know where this customer who called with this
['
3 question was with his or her appliances?
4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: We're on number 27 now?
5 MS. LETSCHE: Yes.
6 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I'm looking at the original 7 of the rumor control form, number 27, came into the Patchogue 8 district office. It does not indicate where the caller is 9 other than they called the Patchogue district office and the f
I 10 Patchogue office happens to be outside of the 10-mile EPZ.
r 11 MS. LETSCHE: In order to answer this question it.
r 12 took 39~ minutes; right?
13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
4 14 MS. LETSCHE: Presumably, if the rumor. control
- 15 operator had known where the caller was calling from, 16 particularly if it was outside the EPZ, that question could
- 17 have been answered much quicker, couldn't it?
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Perhaps, but my judgment is 19 that this is a radiological question, that if I were the .
l 20 person at the district office, I would forward to the ENC.
- 21 MS. LETSCHR
- This is one of the questions which 4
22 in your judgment should not be shortcircuited and should go 23 through the entire process before the person gets an answer?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
I 25 MS. LETSCHE: Look for me, would you, at the third i
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30616.0
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(_)
1 item, which is rumor number 19. That one is a question about 2 whether the caller who lives in Be11 port should evacuate. It 3 took 55 minutes to provide an answer to that question; right?
4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: 55 minutes.
5 MS. LETSCHE: And this call was made at 12:05; 6 right?
7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
8 MS. LETSCHE: Now, is this one, Mr. McCaffrey, 9 which you believe took an appropriate amount of time to 10 provide _the answer? -
11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I have to look at the 12 question on the form.
tQ)
(_ 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: It seems to me that at 12:05 14 or 12:09, depending what time you use on the log, EBS message
- 15 had already gone out for the order to evacuate. This person 16 lives in Bellport. And again, hypothesizing, because I was 17 not the person who routed this through the system, but 10 hypothesizing that the people at the rumor control center 19 know that that's outside the zone of evacuation at that 20 point, and the timeliness of whether this was 55 minutes or
- 21 32 minutes or 60 minutes I would think is immaterial.
22 JUDGE FRYE You think it is too long a time, it 23 should have been answered faster, or do you think it was
] 24 appropriate? I didn't understand the answer.
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I said I think the time is ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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\ I 1 appropriate, and I further went on to say if it was 32 2 minutes or 65 minutes, that wouldn't make a difference to me, 3 I would still consider that range appropriate. If on the 4 other hand this person was in the 10-mile zone, then I would 5 consider it probably inappropriate.
6 JUDGE FRYE: Now, reluctant as I am to follow up, 7 but if I may, do the people who are handling the rumor 8 control phones, the rumor control functions, have any means 9 by which they can readily identify where the caller might be 10 in relation to the EPZ and the zones that have been asked to 11 evacuate?
12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I have charts that show the
,- y k_) 13 procedure. My recollection is the procedure describes the 14 information they would use. We just need to check on the 15 list.
16 JUC3E FRYE: I'm asking basically, is there a map 17 they can look at and say --
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Absolutely. In the emergency 19 news center briefing room, for example, there's a huge map of 20 the 10-mile EPZ and Long Island and they could check that 21 out. The supervisor could easily do that.
22 JUDGE FRYE: So that the facility is there to give 23 a very rapid response?
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's right.
25 JUDGE FRYE: They could say I'm living in Port (x/
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1 Jefferson, should I evacuate, and you could look at the' map 2 and say yes or no?
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Furthermore, people in rumor 4 control are Long Island people and would know off the top of 5 their head generally, but the charts are there to make that 6 confirmation.
7 JUDGE PARIS: The biggest time lapse in this 8 particular one was referred to rumor control and referred to 9 the EOC, 19 minutes elapsed between rumor control and 10 referral to the EOC, and a look on the others on the page 11 show the greatest lapse of time was the time referred to 12 rumor control and referred to the EOC. What's the big holdup 13 there?
14 WITNESS ROBINSON: I can answer that in part even 15 though I was not at the EOC during the exercise. Based on 16 the events of that time, those were very busy times in the 17 EOC. That was when the entire population of the EPZ was 18 being advised to evacuate. Some of the answers had to go to 19 the radiation health coordinator and his staff and they were 20 pressured to give information on which to base the protective 21 action recommendations-for the entire population of the EPZ.
22 Quite truthfully, this kind of individual inquiry 23 goes to the bottom of the priority list at a time like that, 24 so that I think you are quite correct that that is very often 25 where we will see the biggest time lapse, and that's the ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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2 JUDGE PARIS: Thank you.
3 MS. LETSCHE: I would.like to follow up, please, I-1 4 on the questions of' Judges Frye and Paris. The' maps that you 5 referenced, Mr. McCaffrey, as being at the ENC,those would
~
6 be fully visible to the rumor control function.at the ENC;.
T 7 correct?
r 8 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't recall whether there.
l
- j. 9 was a full-size map in their work area.'.What I said was 10 certainly there is one in the press briefing area, and I'm l-11 certain there are reduced copies.of the EPZ maps all over the
! 12 place.
13 MS, LETSCHE: In'looking at rumor number.19 and-l.
14 looking down the list of the chronolgy here, the second item i 1
15 is that the call was referred to rumor control at the ENC.
I 16 The supervisor, the ENC supervisor should have been able to-I 17 'look at a map and know that Bellport was outside the EPZ;
\-
18 right?
i 19 (Panel conferring.) r 20 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I can't explain what the l 21 supervisor decided on that day. I would find that.if he made 22 the decision based upon his knowledge that He11 port is 23 outside the 10-mile EPZ and his knowledge of the EBS i
24 messages, it would have been perfectly appropriate for him to i
! 25 shortcircuit this, and the response, which was ultimately
.i I
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d 1 provEded, w'hich is "not located in EPZ, do not need to do 2 .anything," could have been shortcircuited.
3 JUDGE PARIS: Have these_ people been told that 4 they can shortcircuiti or do they think;they have to go up the 5 chain of command?
6 WITNESS DAVERIO: -As we explained earlier, if the-7 person in the district office thought they. knew the answer 8 based on information they- had in the public information 9 brochure:and other things, they could. answer.it. .They are I 10 trained to do that.
11 JUDGE PARIS: Okay.
12 'MS. LETSCHE: I think.perhaps.your question, Judge
(,q s-) 13 -Paris, was with respect to,-for instance, the supervisor, 14 whoever it was,.at the ENC, they'are authorized to provide an
-15 -answerswithout going over to LERO also, aren't they?
-16 (Panel conferring.)
17 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Once it arrives at the ENC, 18 they-could very well provide the answer, but they would have
!' 19 to then get the concurrence of the news manager before that 20 could go out through.the system.
U 21 MS. LETSCHE: -I thought you told me before that I
22 the supervisor was authorized to give those answers, but 23 that's not true, he has to go to the news manager?
! 24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I thought we described f
l 25 earlier that he is permitted to go around the news manager to ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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3652 V(~V; 1 :obtain an_ answer,' but'when the answer ultimately goes back it 1! must go through the news manager.- Therefore, if the 3 1 supervisor.when a call comes in knows the~ answer, he will be-4 entitled to write down the~ response,.obtain the news 5 manager's' concurrence, and the'n send the' answer back.
6 -MS. LETSCHE- -You also told us before, didn't you,'
7 that the-district. offices and the call boards had among,-
5 8 'atterthey_areactivated,/amongthe'ba>terialsavailableto 9 them, maps of the EPZ; correct? I bElieve that's what you .
L 10 stated a few minutes ago, Mr. Daverio?
11 WITNESS DAVERIO: I believe on the day.of:the 12 ' exercise they.didn't have the brochure because'it was not' 13 issued, b'ut they.;had,some maps; that's correct. -
14 MS. LETSCHE: In light of that, even the initial.
.15 operator,.the district office or call board operator.should 16 have been able to look at one.ot'tjhose' maps and determine i 17 .that Be11 port was outside the EPZ;/ycorrect? -
18 WITNESS DAVERIO: I would have to look at
~19 specifically where betiport is. If you remember, when we-t 20 litigated how tl> Er boundary was set up.it is not r
21 necessarily divided by townships, so' half of Be11 port could 1
22 he in and half out. I'm not sure. .I would come up with EJ areas that are haif in and hall'out. They may have known 24 that or they may not have. They may have decided they didn't 25 know the answer and wanted to go up'the chain. I can't say ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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.v I wh'at they decided'. 'i 2 MS. LETSCHE: The ultimate answer given was 3 Be11 port is not in'the'EPZ; right?
4 WITNESS DAVERIO: But I'm saying-I can't be sure
'S ,what the_ operator knew that day. ~.They made'the decision they.
6 didn't know--the' answer and wanted'to-go up the chain to'get
'7 the answer.
[ 8 JUDGE FRYE: If the answer were obvious to the-operator that somebody is calling from the Hamptons,:would
~
c9
~ 10 th_e operator at the call board or district. office have the-11 authority td give an answer immediately withoutisending it
'12 up?
w ~ ,
13 ' WITNESS DAVERIO: Yes. -In our procedure it says 14 Lto:the people at thd call board, " answer all questions,4if 4
15 possible, using I.he following reference information, the. t 16 brochure," we went through the five things earlier today.but-
~;'
17 yes, they have'that authority.
s 18 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn for me to the next.
-N page of the attachment-R?~ In particular, the question which 20 \ {s rumor number 7, it is the third item on that page. It 1 x 21 refers tq the. question of whether the plant had been taken-a sq ,
22 over by Arab herrorists. You have here the lapse time for 23 responding to that question of 43 minutes, and you have a 24 note explaining that that was when they tried to reach the
, 25 caller back; right? /
l a
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,v-1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes. It says 43 minutes.
- m 2 MS. LETSCHE: Now, I assume, Mr. McCaffrey, from 3 your testimony, that it is your position'that this-amount of
.4 time to respond to this question is acceptable.
.5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
6 MS. LETSCHE: And you discuss this on page 64 of 7 your testimony in the answer to question 128. You say there 8 that the question couldn't have been answered without 9 verifying whether or not it actuallyIhappened. I take it ,
10 that'it is your opinion that it was appropriate for the q 11 people at all of the levels of command that this question 12 went through to verify that there had not been a terrorist 13 takeover of the plant before responding to this call; 14' correct?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Absolutely.
16 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it that's because, in 17 your opinion, the information provided to the district 18 offices and the call boards and the ENC and all the people in 19 the ENC was not sufficient to tell those personnel that the 20 plant had not been taken over by Arab terrorists; right?
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The information that comes
'22 into the district offices and the ENC provides information as 23 to what has happened, not what has not happened. Therefore, 24 when the call comes in to the call board or wherever this one 25 went, that person could not possibly know whether in the time ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 immediately preceding the call or 20 minutes preceding it 2 something developed at the plant. There's no way for_them to 3 know that. Therefore, I think it is perfectly appropriate to 4 forward that to the command center which has access to all 5 that information. That being the ENC.
6 MS. LETSCHE: Now, I don't understand in this 7 chain of calls listed here for this particular message, rumor 8 number 7, it says call made refers to LILCO and LERO and then 9 _ referred to the EOC. I don't see the rumor control and the 10 ENC and all the other entries on this list.
11 (Panel conferring.)
12 JUDGE PARIS: You had 30 minutes between the time 13 LILCO received the answer and the call was given, and 14 something must have been going on in there for you to drop a 15 few data?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: The summary doesn't give 17 enough information. On the original rumor control form a 18 call came in at 9:54. The customer called in. It was in 19 Patchogue. The rumor was received at the ENC, logged in at 20 10:10. The response was put together at 10:20, which was 21 apparently a joint response. They apparently went out and 22 solicited both LILCO and LERO, and the response was relayed 23 at 11:00, but it was ready earlier. This is the one, I 24 guess, where it says the caller wasn't available. The person
- 25 that they had to return the call to was unavailable at the
, %-)
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!Y v 1 time.
2 MS.'LETSCHE: .Your lapse time is based on when it 3 was ready, which was-10:37.
4 JUDGE PARIS: You finally got the caller at 11:00, 5 is that what that means?
6 , WITNESS MC CAFFREY: It says phone was picked up 7 and hung up without any response, 10:15. Unavailable 10:55.
8 Looks like.they kept trying.
9 MS. LETSCHE: So you don't have an explanation for 10 why this did not'go through the rumor control process that's 11 set up in your procedure? Going through the ENC as all the 12 others did? It is just this form is wrong?
O(y/ 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's what I said. It 14 doesn't list it as an entry. The rumor ID number must be 15 assigned by the rumor control people at the ENC, therefore it 16 certainly came in through the ENC.
17 MS. LETSCHE: I'm sorry, I missed that.
18 Would you look for me at rumor number 17, which is 19 at the top of this page we're on in attachment R? You 20 discuss this in your testimony at page 67, just so that we 21 get you on that page, Mr. McCaffrey. This was a question 22 about whether or not it was okay to eat some lobsters, and
- 23 that was asked by a person living in Rocky Point; correct?
' 24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
! 25 MS. LETSCHE: And the message actually says "I l
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V 1 caught some lobsters off the jetty at Shoreham this morning.
2 Are they safe to touch and can I eat them?" According to the 3 form; right?
l 4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
5 MS. LETSCHE: And it took 58 minutes to get an 6 answer back to that question, and the answer was, no reason
! 7 to believe and no data to indicate that anything is wrong 8 with the lobsters; right?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's what it says.
l 10 MS. LETSCHE: I take it it is your position that 11 this response was given in a timely manner; right?
12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
13 MS. LETSCHE: And that this was an adequate and 14 appropriate response; right?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
16 MS. LETSCHE: Now, this call was made at 11:30 17 a.m.; right?
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: 11:35, at a time when the EOC 19 was quite busy dealing with the emergency.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Hight. Rocky Point is in the EPZ 21 and was among the zones which at that point had been advised 22 to evacuate; correct?
23 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't know that.
24 Yes.
25 MS. LETSCHE: And there is no indication, is ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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%s) 1 there, anywhere on the rumor centrol form or the logs
~
.2 relating to this inquiry that.this caller at 11:30 was told 3 that he should have evacuated by then?
4 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: It has no such information.
5 MS. LETSCHE: And there's also.no information on 6 the form or on the associated logs as to when during the 7 . morning these lobsters had been caught off the Shoreham 8 jetty,-is there?
9 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct..
10 MS. LETSCHE: Would you turn back to the first 11 page of attachment R for me? I would like to direct your-12 attention.to rumor number 1, which is the fourth entry on
-. f~)
\,s 13 that page. That rumor took or that question took only 29 14 minutes for a response; right?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
16 MS. LETSCHE: And the question was posed by 17 someone from Port Washington, and it says "I want to know.
18 what time and how extensive this evacuation is going to be.
19 I have trucks going out to Suffolk. What should I do?"
20 That's from attachment S that I'm reading, the inquiry form.
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
22 MS. LETSCHE: The response given to that question, 23 it looks like about 0:20, I believe it was, is that "the only 24 protective action is schools to remain closed or children
. 25 sent home if opened. No evacuation has been recommended at ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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130616.0 KSW: 3659 1 this. time. Listen to WALK Emergency Broadcast System for 2 further instructions.
'3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: "That's what it'says.
4 MS. LETSCHE: There's no indication on this form 5 or on the associated logs, is there, as to where into Suffolk 6 county this caller was going to be sending his trucks?
~7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
-8 -MS. LETSCHE: And zum I- correct that it is. your 9 opinion that this response that we just discussed is an 10 adequate and appropriate response to 'this particular-11 question?
' 12 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: It was appropriate..
I '13 MS. LETSCHE: Was it adequate also?
14 WITNESSLMC CAFFREY: Yes, because there was no
.15 . evacuation at that point. ,
16 MS. LETSCHE: It is true, is-it not, that at that 17 point, that schools had been closed cnr advised to implement
~18 their early dismissal plans?
- 19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
20 MS. LETSCHE: Okay, let's talk for a minute about 21 rumor 26, which is the next one on this page, which is one of
~ 22 the ones asking about whether the plant could blow up.
23 Now, this took la minutes; is that right, for a 24 response to this question?
25 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: And this question, however, went 2 through the entire chain; is that'right? All the way up and 3 al1~the way back down~to get an answer; right? According to 4 this chronolgy?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Not really. The entire 6 chain, as we have been discussing in some of the previous 7 examples, included the EOC function. This'was purely handled 8 on-site, so it stayed within the on-site organization.
9 MS. LETSCHE: Well, what I meant by the full chain 10 was that it went up through the ENC and presumably over to 11 .the EOF or somebody at LILCO and back to the ENC and back 12 down; is that right?
13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: It went through the-ENC 14 function -- I need to read the response.
15 Reading the response that the plant never had 16 cooling towers, that would have been a response that could 17 readily have been done at the ENC, so I suspect the question
, 18 came in, was asked of the ENC, routed back through rumor 19 control and responded to, which is why it is so quick, versus
+
20 the one on the terrorists where you need to call the plant to 21 find out what's happening, to make sure nothing has developed 22 that you don't know about.
23 MS. LETSCHE: I'm looking at the chronolgy here.
24 You are saying this is another instance where it is wrong.
25 Says " call made, referred to rumor control," I assume that's
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- KSW 3661 1 the ENC, and then " referred to LILCO and then received answer 2 from LILCO, and then called board given answer."
3 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's all at the end.
4 That's the rumor control function looks to other LILCO 5 personnel such as the engineers I referred to earlier, to 6 provide the answer. They are referring to that as LILCO, 7 versus LERO.
8 MS. LETSCHE: This is LILCO but it took place at 9 the ENC. You didn't have to go out to LILCO for this one?
10 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That appears to be the case.
11 MS. LETSCEIE: You consider this a timely response 12 time; right?
() _
13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Looks very good.
14 MS. LETSCIIR : And I take it that's because --
15 strike that.
16 I take it this is also not an inquiry which in 17 your opinion should have been answerable at an earlier stage 18 of the process; correct? Earlier stage than it was answered?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I would think this one should 20 not have been answered at the call board. It should have 21 been referred to the rumor control.
22 MS. LETSCHE: So the information available to the 23 district office and call board operators would not have 24 included the fact that the Shoreham nuclear power plant 25 cannot blow up; correct?
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1 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: This is a multiple question.
2 That is, the question wants_to know about cooling towers, 3 number one; number two, what happened to them; number three, 4 did they blow up, and considering that a person calling in 5 may have his facts confused and that something related to 6 that may well have happened, it would be appropriate to 7 forward that inquiry to the area where they can try to sift 8 through the inconsistencies and figure out whether there's 9 something of substance here, so I would have sent this one 10 on.
i 11 MS. LETSCHE: Let me ask the question again. Is 12 it your position, Mr. McCaffrey, that the materials available
' b V 13 to and known by the LILCO district office and call board 14 personnel did not include the information that the Shoreham 15 plant did not blow up?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I doubt that they would have 17 been provided with a piece of information that said that.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Were they also not provided with any 19 information that says the Shoreham plant doesn't have cooling 20 towers?
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Not directly.
22 MS. LETSCHF.: Would you turn to the last page of 23 attachment R for me, please? I would like to direct your 24 attention to rumor number 10 on that page. That question 25 came in at 11:59, and it took 30 minutes to get a response to ACE. FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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~V 1 it; correct?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
3 MS. LETSCHE: And the question was, this is from.
4 someone in Coram, "can I eat food in my refrigerator?" And 5 the response, according torthe form in attachment S, was "as 6 long as food has been properly stored in the refrigerator it 7 is okay to eat. If he is within the 10-mile zone he should 8 be evacuating"; correct?
9 WITNESS-MC CAFFREY: Yes.
10 MS. LETSCHE: Now, is it your position that that 11 answer is an adequate and appropriate answer to that 12 question?
) 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I think it is a great 14 answer. It also tells them if they are still there they 15 should have left.
16 MS. LETSCHE: What it says is if he is within the
~
17 10-mile zone he should be evacuating. Do you think that
- 18 tells him he should have left?
19 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: If he is within the 10-mile 20 zone, i 21 MS. LETSCHE: Doesn't tell him whether he is in i 22 the 10-mile zone, does it?
23 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
24 MS. LETSCHB: And this answer, question and 25 answer, also went all the way up the chain and all the way i
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1 back down; correct?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
3 MS. LETSCHE: I assume that this is another one 4 you think was appropriate for that treatment; correct?
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
6 JUDGE PARIS: I would like to ask a couple of 7 questions about rumor number 17 and number 18. I'm looking 8 at the forms under, what is it, T or something. Rumor number 9 17, the fellow with the lobsters out at Rocky Point, was 10 advised at 12:25 that there was nothing to indicate he 11 couldn't eat his lobsters but was told nothing about 12 evacuation. The fellow with the stuff in the refrigerator,
( 13 wherever he was, was told at 12:26 or I guess 12:28, that it' 14 was okay for him to eat the stuff in his refrigerator, but 15 that if he were within the 10-mile zone he should be 16 evacuating. Now, you look over at the next page, I note that J
17 rumor number 17, I don't know, this is all for what? LERO?
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: This is an ENC log.
19 JUDGE PARIS: ENC log. At 11:43, rumor number 17 20 came in, and a response to rumor number 17 was what, received 21 at 11:52?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Rumor 17 came in at 11:35, 23 JUDGE PARIS: Where do you see that? On this --
24 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I'm looking at the rumor i
25 control form itself that was filled out, i
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ns 1 JUDGE PARIS: Well, look over at this log.
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: For number 17?
3 JUDGE PARIS: Yes. Rumor number 17 is listed 4 opposite the 11:43.
5 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Just give me a moment. I 6 need to get to 17.
7 WITNESS ROBINSON: Judge, what page are you on, O please? Is the log page numbered?
9 JUDGE PARIS: It is the log. There's no log page 10 number on it. It is the log page immediately following this 11 form that has the summary for rumors number 17 and 18 on it.
12 JUDGE silon: It is the next to last page of p)
(, 13 attachment R. I think that's what it is, isn't it?
14 JUDGE PARIS: No, I don't think so.
15 MS. LETSCUE: It is attachment S.
16 JUDGE PARIS: The top line reads " press release 17 number 5 will be."
18 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I have that.
19 JUDGE PARIS: Look down at 11:43, and opposite 20 that it says rumor number 17, is it safe to eat lobster and 21 so on. Do you see that?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
23 JUDGE PARIS: Is that the time that it was logged 24 into the ENC, do you think?
25 WITNESS ROBINSON: I can answer that. That's when O
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% J 1 the answer -- I recognize the handwriting of this. That 2 would be when the answer was received from the EOC. These 3 questions and answers were transmitted from the ENC to the 4 EOC by telephone.
5 JUDGE PARIS: Down below at 11:52 there's a 6 response to rumor number 17. Do you see that? What does 7 that mean?
8 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I don't think that's 9 correct. I'm looking at the original rumor control form, and 10 it logs in the rumor received at the ENC at around 11:40.
11 That seems more consistent with that 11:43 entry. I regard 12 that as the time it was engaged at the ENC.
v 13 JtJDGE PARIS: Then he was called at, according to 14 this, at 12:25; right?
15 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct.
16 JUDGE PARIS: I notice on this Jog that 17 immediately after what is recorded as an 11:52 entry response 18 to rumor number 17, there is the notation " received, expanded 19 evacuation to all zones," and then you go down and all heck 20 breaks loose and this guy wasn't called back until 12:26.
21 The question is, it looks to me like, and do you think this 22 is probably what happened, that the order to evacuate was 23 picked up in the ENC immediately after they got the answer to 24 number 17's question, and the fact that he was in the EPZ and g 25 should be evacuating dropped through the cracks and he didn't
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1 get told that when he got called back at 12:25?
2 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: What I want to do is look at 3 18 also. You are coupling the two together and I'm trying to 4 look at the times. It looks like both responses were 5 available at 12:10, and they both went back to the caller at 6 about the same time, 12:25, 12:28. It looks -- to be more 7 consistent they probably should have made the same statement 8 on number 17, especially since they should have recognized 9 Rocky Point as in the EPZ because that's the next plant out.
10 That would have been readily discernable.
11 MS. LETSCHE: In fact Rocky Point was in the area 12 that was told to evacuate at 10:30, right, Mr. McCaffrey?
m
( ,) 13 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Correct.
14 JUDGE FRYE: Rocky Point is out by itself, isn't 15 it?
16 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Rocky Point is about three 17 miles due west.
18 MS. LETSCHE: Would you direct your attention, 19 please, to rumor number 31 on the chron on this attachment R, 20 it is on the second page?
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Which rumor? Number 1?
22 MS. LETSCHE: 31. This was a question called in 23 at 14:51, 2:51, from a caller who said I live in Shelter 24 Island. The ferry has been cancelled, how do I get off the 25 island? Now, according to the chronolgy, the response was
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1 given roughly 33 minutes later, and the response was "We do 2 not get involved in evacuation outside of 10-mile zone. Call 3 local emergency response group for assistance, which would be 4 the police."
5 Now, is it your opinion, Mr. McCaffrey, that this 6 was an adequate and appropriate response to this question?
7 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes, and it could well have 1 0 been answered by the district office, but they chose here to 9 send it to the ENC.
10 MS. LETSCHE: And you think that the district 11 office should have told this person on Shelter Island that 12 LILCO doesn't get involved in evacuation outside of the O)
( 13 10-mile zone?
14 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I would think that had the 15 person at the district office known for sure because of their 16 familiarity with Long Island that Shelter Island was well 17 outside the zone, they could have answered it themselves and 18 said there is no issue here.
19 JUDGE PARIS: Looks like it went all the way to 20 the EOC.
21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's correct. The reason 22 for that is that the LILCO people at the ENC consciously make 23 a separation of church and state and do not respond to an 24 issue like that, so the procedure is to forward it to the EOC
, 25 through the LERO staff at the ENC to get that answer, because V) ace FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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i) v 1 it is an off-site function.
2 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think there's something else 3 that was going on here, and that is that very often, the area 4 in which I was working, the LERO Work space, the FEMA 5 obcerver was in that room, and I strongly suspect that very 6 often, especially when the observer was in the room, the 7 staff people wanted to demonstrate their procedures even if 8 they knew this particular answer and were hesitant to do what 9 they might do otherwise, which is just answer it, so they 10 went through every step even if they did know the answer.
11 JUDGE FRYE: Do you think that they should have 12 answered it themselves?
A L,) 13 WITNESS ROBINSON: I think in some of these cases 14 they could have.
15 JUDGE FRYE: This specific one?
16 WITNESS ROBINSON: They could have.
17 JUDGE FRYE: Should they have?
10 WITNESS ROBINSON: It is a judgment call on my 19 part. If I were doing it I would have. ,
20 JUDGE PARIS: I didn' t get the church and state 21 analogy. Would you explain that?
22 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: I was trying to say that the 23 rumor control function is an on-site function, but when an 24 lusue comes int.o the ENC through rumor control and it is an 25 issue dealing with off-site protective action, or informat. ion n
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30616.0 KSW 3670 1 like that, we go to LERO. LILCO answers or LERO answers and 2 the two are distinct. However, at the district office or s
3 call board, they have an equal opportunity to respond, so 4 they can address both.
5 MS. LETSCHE: Finally, Mr. McCaffrey, would you 6 turn, please, to rumor number 30 on attachment R. It is on 7 the second page carrying over to the third. This was called 8 in at 14:32. It was from a caller in the town of Medford, 9 and the question was, I live in Medford but work in 10 Melville. What am I supposed to do? Right?
5 11 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: That's what it says.
12 MS. LETSCHE: The response was if he is in
) 13 Medford, should have evacuated. If he is in Melville, do not 14 return until notified by WALK radio, okay to return. Is it 15 your position that that response was an adequate and i 16 appropriate response to this inquiry?
17 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes.
18 MS. LETSCHE: And I take it that this is also one 19 which you believe appropriately should have gone all the way 20 up and all the way back down the chain of command here?
. 21 WITNESS MC CAFFREY: Yes, I think it is
+
22 appropriate.
23 MS. LETSCHE: Judge Frye, this would be a good 24 time for me to stop, i
25 JUDGE FRYE: Are you through with the rumor
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2 MS. LETSCHE: No, I have just a few more wrap-up 4 l
3 questions. I need to go through my notes and see, since I l I
4 kind of did things in a little different order, rather than ;
I 5 going through the testimony.
6 JUDGE FRYE: And then after that -- I l
7 MS. LETSCHE: There will be more rumor control and l 8 continuing on to shadow evacuation. )
9 JUDGE FRYE Mr. Zahnleuter, how do you stand 10 now? Do you have much? ,
j 11 MR. Z AliNLEUTER : I have some questions that I !
l
, 12 would like to ask tomorrow, but are you asking me for a time ;
i' 13 estimate?
i 14 JUDGE FRYE Yes, I want to,get a feel for it.
1 15 MR. ZAtlNLEUTER: I would say 30 minutes.
16 JUDGE FRYE Anything from Staff?
17 MR. PIRFO: I have one question.
18 JUDGE FRYE: Ms. McCleskey, how does it look for l
19 you?
20 MS. MC CLESKEY: We have very little redirect. A ,
1 21 couple of questions. ,
22 JUDGE FRYE Looks like were we're in pretty good 3
23 shape. Would you concur with that?
24 MS. LETScilE: Yes. I think we'll finish l i 25 tomorrow.
1 I
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.,3 1 JUDGE FRYE: This is a good time to adjourn. It 2 has been a long day.
3 (Discussion off the record.)
4 JUDGE FRYE Back on the record.
5 I will repeat the ruling so it is in the 6 transcript. We conferred on the question and we decided to 7 move ahead Monday with the witnesses which are available and 8 pick up Dr. Loftus' testimony when Dr. Loftus is available.
9 MS. LETSCHR: Your Honor, that's unreasonable.
10 The reason that it is is because there have been 11 accommodations made in order to accommodate witness 12 unavailability on behalf of LILco, and I hear about them
() 13 every time we have any kind of scheduling discussion. The 14 fact is that this testimony is jointly sponsored, and to 15 suggest that a witness has to review a transcript at night 16 when she is going to get in at 11:00 at night and be in a 17 position to determine whether or not she has something to add 18 to an answer to a question asked the previous day that she 19 has had to review a transcript to find out about I don't 20 think is reasonable or fair.
21 I think the testimony should be cross-examined as 22 it is submitted, and when it is jointly sponsored, that's how 23 it should be cross-examined. I object to accommodations 24 being made for LILCO's witnesses in terms of pressure being
! 25 applied to me on my cross-examination and not getting equal O
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1 accommodation when I have a witness problem.
2 JUDGE FRYE: As far as we're concerned, LILCO will 3 be in exactly the same place. Dr. Mileti won't be here next 4 week. Ile is going to have two days to catch up on.
5 MS. MC CLESKEY: I will also represent, as far as 6 the cross-examination, what I anticipate is that your entire 7 panel will be with Ms. Loftus the following Tuesday morning 8 so they will all be together, and --
9 JUDGE FRYE: Ilow much time do you anticipate your 10 cross is going to take?
11 MS. MC CLESKEY: I had originally said two days 12 and I don't think it will be that long.
O
( ,! 13 JUDGE PARIS: Don't you think we can take note of 14 the questions that require her input and save her the trouble 15 of poring through the transcript?
16 MS. MC CLESKEY: I think that's her lawyer's job.
17 Her lawyer can --
10 JUDGE FRYE: If you could finish --
19 MS. MC CLESKEY: I'm not going to be addressing 20 questions to more than one witness at a time.
21 MR. PIRFO: Your lionor, I want to put my position 22 on the record.
23 JUDGE FRYE: One moment. Are you certain you are 24 going to take less than two days?
, 25 MS. MC CLESKEY: Yes.
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30616.0 KSW 3674 h,q 1 JUDGE FRYE: What, a day and a half?
2 MS. MC CLESKEY: Yes. Perhaps even less than 3 that.
4 JUDGE FRYE: All right, would it be acceptable to 5 you, with the understanding that these witnesses are only 6 available for two days, to go on Monday and take Tuesday 7 morning off and pick it up on Tuesday afternoon?
8 MS. MC CLESKEY: I'm hesitating, because if I take 9 a day and a half and they are only available for two days I 10 don't know when everyone else has an opportunity to talk to 11 the witnesses.
12 MS. LETScilE My witnesses are available on
) 13 Wednesday, which is why I made the proposal that we start on 14 Tuesday when my entire panel is available, and with 15 Ms. McCleskey's amendment that she will only take a day and a 16 half, we could start on, Tuesday when ali my witnesses are 17 here.
18 MS. MC CLUSKEY: Frankly, I think we're i
i 19 anticipating problems that will not arise. The experts have 20 very different areas of expertise.
21 JUDGE FRYE: Why don't you confer? I don't think 22 you are that far apart. Fo))owing up on your suggestion and 23 the fact that you need less than a full two days, maybe you 24 can work out an accommodation.
25 M!i . MC CLESKEY: I doubt it.
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V i MS. LETSCHE: I don't see that happening either, 2 Judge.
3 MR. PIRFO: Staff's cross-examination of these 4 witnesses will not be insignificant. In other words, I don't 5 think the day and a half, take Monday morning off idea, will 6 fly.
7 JUDGE FRYE: liow much time do you anticipate?
8 MR. PIRFO: I won't be doing the cross of that 9 panel, but I would think a half day for my talk with Mr. Hath 10 is not an unconservative estimate.
11 JUDGE FRYE: You think half a day would be in the 12 ballpark?
tQ V 13 MR. PIRFO: Yes.
14 JUDGE FRYR: Mr. Zahnleuter, do you have any 15 questions, do you think?
16 MR. Z AllNLEUTER : It is difficult for me to answer 17 because if Dr. Loftus is not questioned by LILCO, it may be 18 necessary for me to protect the interests of the state to 19 cross-examine or at least examine Dr. Loftus. A time 20 estimate would be difficult for me to give you.
21 JUDGE FRYE: At this point, the state may have 22 interests that are not quite -- do not coincide with Dr.
23 Loftus' testimony, I gather, from what you are saying.
24 MR. ZAHNLEllTER: Well, I know what her written 25 testimony is. I don't know what her oral testimony would 7-j Ace-FEDERAL ReponTuns, INC.
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J 1 be. What I'm saying is that the State of New York has 2 interests, and that if Dr. Loftus' written testimony supports 3 those interests and it looks like it is an area worth 4 examining on, then I would examine in that area to pursue the 5 matter. That's the way any party approaches examining a 6 witness.
7 JUDGE FRYE: Sure.
8 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: To protect the interests of that 9 party. I would say, though, that I do anticipate that I will 10 examine the panel. What goes on before it is my turn to 11 examine the panel, however, will be relevant.
12 JUDGE FRYE: Sure. I would say from the sound of
(%
() 13 that, we better get started Monday morning.
14 MR. PIRFO: For the record, as I said before, I 15 don't want to be held to the half day estimate.
16 JUDGE FRYE I understand.
17 MS. LETSCllEt If you are going to go ahead with 10 that ruling, with respect to requiring us to put on an 19 incomplete witness panel over our objection, what I would 20 request is that you require that the cross-examination not 21 cover any testimony which Dr. LoftuH jointly UponuorU. There 22 are portions of the testimony, for instance, which are 23 sponsored just by Messrs. Rowan and Evann. There are 24 available portions having to do with media experience and not n 25 Dr. Loftuc'. If you are going to permit crous-examination to
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1 take place, I request that it be limited to examination on 2 testimony sponsored by witnesses that.are present.
3 MR. ZAHNLEUTER: I support that request. It seems 4 very reasonable. We have seen examples with all packages 5 about how panel members interact with each other, and build 6 on each other's answers.
7 MS. LETSCHR: I might add that is consistent with 8 what Ms. McCleskey is indicating Ms. Monahan is going to 9 request Mr. Miller to do with respect to the training panel.
10 JUDGE FRYE: Have you looked at this? How much 11 does that amount to?
12 MS. MC CLESKEY: I was just trying to flip through 13 and I couldn't find what I was looking for and gave p. My 14 recollection, having gone through the testimony a bit, is 15 that there are a lot of answers where there are several names 16 on the answer. I would ask that the board not put that kind 17 of limitation on it, and I will just add that my 10 cross-examination method is not perhaps like Ms. Letsche's in 19 that I don't go page by page through the testimony. I tend 20 to pitch subjects and focus on particular people to talk 21 about those in their areas of expertise, and it is a 22 different approach. I don't think that in reality, if we 23 just go forward on Monday, that there will be any real 24 problems with this from the s tandpoint of Ms. Loftun not 25 being here.
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1 MS. LETSCHE: I will just reiterate my request.
2 If the board requires that we put on an incomplete witness 3 panel and not have all of the witnesses present who are 4 sponsoring testimony, then I think it is only reasonable to 5 require that the cross-examiner not direct questions 4
6 concerning testimony that is sponsored by the witness which 7 is not being permitted to be there. I will represent that 8 there are substantial portions of this testimony that are not 9 sponsored by Dr. Loftus.
10 JUDGE FRYE: What are they?
11 MS. LETSCHE: They are primarily in the first part 12 of it. They are roughly in the first half of the testimony,.
13 Judge Frye. There are certainly answers in the first half 14 that are sponsored by Dr. Loftus, but there are major 15 sections which are sponsored by Messrs. Rowan and Evans 16 because they deal directly with the media. That is their 17 area of expertise, not Dr. Loftus', and as I said, I don't 10 think that's an unreasonable request.
19 JUDGE FRYE: Let us confer and we'll be back in j 20 the morning on this one. We'll be adjourned until 9:00.
21 Before I do that, is it going to make a tremendous 22 difference to the parties if we wait until morning for a 23 ruling or would it be more convenient to have it this 24 evening?
! > 25 MS. MC CLESKEY: It doesn't make a difference to l
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2 MS. LETSCHE: Well, is your-ruling only whether or 3 not you will require her to go forward? Have you already 4 ruled that we are going on Monday?
5 JUDGE FRYE: We need to confer.
6 MS. LETSCHE: In that case, the earlier the 7 better. If.It is not until tomorrow morning and-I can still 8 get the relief I want, I will wait. -
9 JUDGE FRYE: The reason I say that is we will 10 confer now and make the ruling if it helps.
11 MS. LETSCHE: As I said, if by conferring now I
. 12 can still get the relief I want, I would love to hear tonight l}
C 13 rather.than tomorrow.
14 JUDGE FRYE: Otherwise tomorrow?
15 MS. LETSCHE: I was not being totally facetious.
16 The earlier the better for me.
17 MR. PIRFO: I would like a ruling now, because I'm 18 not the person involved in this.
19 JUDGE FRYE: We'll confer and be back in just a 20 few minutes.
21 (Recess.)
22 JUDGE FRYE: Back on the record.
23 We have conferred and decided to begin on Monday 24 but to follow Ms. Letsche's suggestion. We only ask 25 questions on testimony that is not sponsored by Dr. Loftus, V
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1 and we'll go as far as we can on th'at' bas- on Monday when 2 Dr. Loftus arrives, and pick up with the remaining 3 questions. We will expect as soon as we're through with this 4 to pick up LILCO's panel on Contention 50.
5 JUDGE PARIS: And all parties will get to question 6 those witnesses Mondsy.
7 MR. PIRFO: Can I get a clarification? Questions 8 to Ms. Loftus are fair game first thing Tuesday morning, 9 presumably, not making her available until Tuesday 7 afternoon 10 is not the suggestion -- g 11 JUDGE FRYE: I want to see how it proceeds-and
, 12 what it'looks like. If it is possible for us to st, art about
's / #
13 an hour late or something on Tuesday, in order to give.
14 Ms. Loftus an opportunity to get~up to speed, that would be a 15 good thing to do. It would go f aster in the long run to do 16 that. I would like to h'old that until we see how we are
^
17 going, how much remains to be done.
18 MR. PIRFO: I guess my only questic is that --
19 maybe you are saying you don't have an answer at this point 20 to it, is that once she takes the stand, I p r e s u m e a n'y a n d i
21 all questions are fair game?
)
22 JUDGE FRYE: Yes, I would think so. 'Sure.
23 MS. LETSCHE: Just before she gets on the e, 4 .
24 testimony that has her name on it wouldn't be the subject of f3 25 Ms. McCleskey's questions.
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'O 1 JUDGE FRYE: Or Staff's.
2 MR. PIRFO: I understand that. I guess I was 3 asking a double-edged question in the sense that -- or there 4 are two parts to it. I was wondering about the Tuesday 5 morning recess or --
^
6 MS. MC CLESKEY: There is no Tuesday morning 7 recess; is that correct?
8 JUDGE FRYE There is none scheduled.
9 MS. LETSCHE: I take it the other parties asking 10 questions on Monday would only happen if Ms. McCleskey 11 finished all'her cross on everything other than Dr..Loftus 12 sponsored testimony; right?
3 g
\.. /' 13 MS. MC CLESKEY: Right.
14 JUDGE FRYE: What you are saying is that we will 15 go with Ms.-McCleskey and she will go through her questions 16 that are not directed to Ms. Loftus, or Dr. Loftus. Then-we 17 will go to Mr. Zahnleuter and then to Staff on the same .
18 basis. ,
19 MS.'LETSCHE: My point was that we only get to 20 staff and Mr. Zahnleuter it Ms. McCleskey finishes all the 21 questions that she has of the panel.
22 JUDGE FRYE: That's right.
23 MS. LETSCHE: Other than those that are on 24 testimony sponsored by Dr. Loftus.
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1 the Suffolk County panel on Tuesday, early Tuesday, we would 2 move.immediately into training, presumably. I doubt if we 3 will finish that early.
4 MS. MC CLESKEY: The answer is yes, and I'm 5 counting that Mr. Miller and Ms. Monahan can work out the 6 M11eti problem.
7 JUDGE FRYE: As far as I'm concerned, that's 8 settled. We're treating it this way with Dr. Loftus, we're 9 going to treat it the same with Dr. Mileti.
10 MS. MC CLESKEY: You are saying they will go on 11 and if it-is without Mileti it is without Dr. Mileti. That's 12 my. understanding too.
AIm/) 13 MS. LETSCHE: I gather it will also be without 14 Lindell.
15 MS. MC CLESKEY: I'm not sure that Dr. Lindell-has 16 the same sort of scheduling difficulties that Mileti does. I
-17 don ' t know, I have not gotten involved in that. I mentioned 18 Lindell because when we had started talking about these 19 scheduling difficulties we had tried to see if we could 20 separate out Dr. Milett on the ENC panel so that he wouldn't 21 be here, and we concluded that he was so intertwined in all 22 of the testimony we couldn't do it; but then looking at the 23 training testimony, Lindell and Mileti are on a separate 24 analysis that is really not the same situation on the ENC
% 25 testimony.
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s 1 The reason I mentioned Lindell was that I was 2 hopeful and I still am that Miller and Monahan will be able 3 to work something out so that that portion of the testimony 4 will be cross-examined, with Mr. Miller's consent, separately f
5 so that they don't have to be here the whole time. I have no 6 knowledge of Lindell's separate scheduling constraints, if he 7 has any. I do know he also teaches classes and teaches on 8 Monday and Wednesday and Mileti teaches on Tuesday and 9 Thursday. It is a problem, but that's all I know about it.
10 MS. LETSCHE: This is something we're not 11 particularly knowledgeable about. I have just some question 12 about whether we're now just deciding to put up witnesses
( c.
is, 13 whenever they are available rather than witness panels. I 14 think there's a problem in just sort of regularly ordering 15 parties to produce witnesses other than the way they have 16 presented their testimony.
17 MS. MC CLESKEY: I think we ought to address again 18 the problems of scheduling generally. We seem to be spending 19 a lot of time talking about scheduling.
20 JUDGE FRYE: We have to do that in connection with 21 50, and we, the board, are not prepared yet to talk to you 22 about 50.
23 MS. MC CLESKEY: I think my remarks are more 24 general than that. I'm not trying to get back into who f3 25 struck John, and it may have been my own misunderstanding, u) i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 but my understanding was that we didn't go forward last week 2 and started at 1:00 this week with the understanding that the 3 ENC panel for LILCO would be finished this week and that we 4 would be doing the ENC panel for Suffolk County starting on 5 Monday, so I was quite surprised to hear that in fact 6 somebody was not available.
7 JUDGE FRYE: That's water over the dam.
8 MS. MC CLESKEY: But it is a problem that could be 9 resolved if we had dates certain for the schedule, and we've IS talked about that before, and if we could set up dates 11 certain, people would know when they had to be here, they-12 could keep their. calendars clear.
.13 JUDGE FRYE: As I say, let's look at this 14 Contention 50 matter. We're not in a position to talk about 15 dates certain until we have addressed that. That's the next.
16 item of business. You know, if that goes longer than is on 17 the schedule now, it will affect the dates down the road. We 18 will address dates certain for matters after the Contention 19 50 matter.
20 MS. LETSCHE: I will say as a general matter that 21 -- I believe I have said this before, I'm not going to talk 22 about things that happened before because the transcript will 23 speak for itself. With respect to the whole concept of dates 24 certain, I think it would be inappropriate and improper for r~cA 25 you to set dates that are not merely target dates or ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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1 tentative dates as to when particular testimony starts 2 because what that means is that you are setting arbitrary 3 limits on cross-examination, and I don't think, without 4 making rulings --
5 JUDGE FRYE: I quarrel with you in your use of the 6 word arbitrary. We are setting limits but they are certainly 7 not arbitrary. We are listening to everyone's ideas on it 8 and making a decision. It may be that we've committed an 9 error that you can take up on appeal, and I would encourage 10 you to do that, but they are not arbitrary.
11 MS. LETSCHE: I was talking about-if you were to 12 set them beyond Contention 50 with which you have some Q
.(,/ 13 information now to make a ruling, if you were to. set dates 14 certain, which I thought Ms. McCleskey was talking in the 15 overall universal sense, if you were-to set dates certain 16 without having received information from the counsel doing 17 the cross-examining, then I think they would be done without 10 basis.
19 JUDGE FRYE: .That raises a question that I think 20 we need to be prepared to address in some fashion or another, 21 since the attorneys have divided up the responsibility for 22 this case. We ran today into a situation where three of the 23 attorneys who are involved in the future are not here to 24 discuss matters on how their cases will be handled. Mr. Bath
, 25 for staff, Monahan and Mr. Miller. When we sit down to talk V
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4 MS. LETSCHE: If you can give us notice as to when 5 you want to do that, I'm sure we can all make whatever 6 arrangements we need.
7 JUDGE FRYE: Tomorrow morning.
8 JUDGE PARIS: The FEMA witnesses come last. If 9 there's anything certain it is that we don't know how long 10 they are going to be in front of us.
11 MS. MC CLESKEY: The concern I have is that on our 12 joint conference call yesterday, counsel for Suffolk County 1
m 13 represented that a mid-June ending of'this proceeding was 14 optimistic, and that is too months from now.
15 MS. LETSCHE: That was the LILCO estimate, 16 mid-June.
17 MS. MC CLESKEY: That's how many weeks we have 10 left without any additional time given on 50 or anything 19 else.
20 MR. PIRFO: Thank you.
21 JUDGE FRYE: We're adjourned until 9:00 tomorrow 22 morning.
23 (Whereupon, at 5:30 p.m., the hearing was 24 adjourned to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., April 23, 1987.)
25 4
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CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER
/T us' This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1)
DOCKET NO.: 50-322-OL-5 (EP Exercise)
PLACE: HAUPPAUGE, NEW YORK I DATE: WEDNESDAY, APRIL.22, 1987 -
were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
/
(sigt)
(TYPED)' /
KATHIE S. WELLER Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Reporter's Affiliation 4
CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the l matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1)
DOCKET NO.: 50-322-OL-5 (EP Exercise)
PLACE: HAUPPAUGE, NEW YORK
/h Q DATE: WEDNESDAY, APRIL.22, 1987 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
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KATHIE S. WELLER Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Reporter's Affiliation G
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