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Nuclear Regulatory Commission 2
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Region II
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7 Enforcement !!;; ring 8
9 In Re: Marcel Wilkins 10 Plant Vogtle 11 12 May 13, 1992 13 8 l 14 11:00 a.m.
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18 Atlanta, Georgia gj Nl eesf 19
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21 Linds E.
Wood, CCR-A-752 22 23 BROWN REPORTING, INC.
24 1100 SPRING STREET, SUITE 750 ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309 j
25 (404) 876-8979 f
'b 9611040161 960827 PDR FOIA KOHN95-211 PDR
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i APPEARANCES 1
2 3
Stewart D. Ebneter, NRC, RII, Regional Administrator 4
James Lieberman, NRC, Director Office of Enforcement f
5 Pierce Skinner, NRC, RII, DRP 6
David B.
Matthews, NRC, NRR, DRPE 7
George R.
Jenkins, NRC, RII, Director, EICS 8
James L.
Milhoan, NRC, RII, DRA i
9 Jay McGurren, NRC, OGC I
10 Carolyn F. Evans, NRC, RII, Regional Counsel 11 Luis A. Reyes, NRC, RII, Director, DRP 12 13 Bill Shipman, Plant Manager, Plant Vogtle 14 Marcel Wilkins, I&C Technician, Plant Vogtle 15 16
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17 18 4
19 f
20 21 j
22 23 1
24 25
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1 MR. EBNETER:
This is an Enforcement 2
Conference between Mr. Wilkins and the Nuclear 3
Regulatory Commission.
That you are an employee of 4
Georgia Power Company and, Mr. Shipman, you are here 5
to at the request of Mr. Wilkins?
6 MR. SHIPMAN:
Yes.
7 MR. EBNETER:
The Enforcement Conference 8
is related to an incident on January 28th, 1992 9
which involved the apparent falsification of records 10 in violation of a Georgia Power Company procedure 11 24812 dash 1.
12 The proceeding is pursuant to the new 13 Nuclear Regulatory Commission requirement related to 14 what we call the Wrong Doer Rule which was 15 promulgated by the Federal Register Notice and 16 modified 10 CFR Part 50 which took effect September 17 16th, 1991.
18 Therefore, this is a precedent setting 19 type issue under a new regulation.
So it is very 20 important to us and because of the importance of it 21 we do have Mr. Lieberman, who is head of our Office 22 of Enforcement, here and he will essentially lead 23 the Enforcement Conference.
And we do have legal 24 counsel from the region, Ms. Evans and 25 MR. McGURREN:
My name is Jay McGurren.
l
4 1
'I'm with NRC, Office of General Counsel.
2 (Discussion ensued off the record.)
3 MR '. EBNETER:
Somebody circulating a 4
list?
5 MR. SKINNER:
I'll do that.
6 MR. EBNETER:
We need to get a list so 7
Linda can correlate what she has on the record.
8 With that I will turn it over to Mr. Lieberman to
[
9 conduct the meeting conference.
10 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Let me start by giving 11 you a copy of the regulation at issue, 10 CFR 50.5
~
l 12 so you can have a copy of that, f
13 It's our understanding that you, along 14 with Mr. Davis, decided not to follow procedures and of 15 properly calibrate a bistable.found to be out 16 tolerance, knowing at the time that this was 17 co'ntrary to your training and procedures.
l 18 Thereafter, you were involved in having a 19 QC person sign off that the "as left" condition was 20 proper when, in fact, it wasn't, since the s
21 calibration procedure was not followed.
22 And then you were involved, it is our 23 understanding, in permitting the calibration data to 24 be fabricated, thus indicating that a calibration 25 was done when it hadn't been done.
l
5 1
As a result the Georgia Power Company 2
failed to follow required procedures and had erroneous records both of which violated Commission 3
i 4
requirements.
5 If our understanding is correct, your 6
actions violated Section 50.5, which is entitled 7
Deliberate misconduct by unlicensed persons because your deliberate actions caused Georgia Power Company 8
9 commercial licensee to be in violation of-Commission l
10 requirements and caused them to have received 11 erroneous information in their records.
12 Most failures by employees of licensees 13 are left to the licensee to deal with.
- However, 14 deliberate failures are of concern not only to the 15 licensee but also the Commission.
Because we can't 16 afford to let individuals decide for themselves 17 which requirements they should choose to follow and 18 which records they should maintain in an accurate 19 fashion.
20 Therefore, we are having this 21 corfer,ence.
It's being transcribed so we have a I
22 clear record of what is said.
If you desire, you 23 may have a copy of this transcript. _Sut if we
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24 provide you a copy of the transcript, we'll also 25 place it in the public document room once this
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6 1
matter is resolved.
2 The purpose of the Conference today is to us in making 3
obtain information from you to assist 4
an appropriate decision.
We are interested in you 5
providing your views on what happened on January 6
2.8 t h, what was your motivation for doing what you 7
did, why in light of the apparent deliberate actions 8
we should have confidence that in the future you 9
will comply with requirements to supply accurate 10 information on activities that you are directly or indirectly involved with and any other information 11 12 you might want to share with us to help us make our-13 decision.
14 So with that, if you would like to say 15 whatever you desire, we appreciate it.
16 MR. WILKINS:' I should explain what we were given 17 happened?
Well, it was we went out 18 the procedures and we went out to the control room.
and JD had the 19 We started on Unit 1.
We had 20 package, the procedure and everything.
21 We went out there.
We got our test 22 equipment together.
I think the test equipment was 23 already put together by JD.
And Bob told me, you 24 know, work with JD.
JD was in the 25 So I went out there.
We I
m e--
7 1
racks and I was reading the procedure to him.
And 2
he was connecting up the test equipment.
Everything 3
was going fine.
4 I would read and he would call out the 5
data and I would document the data.
.Then we came up-6 to a point where the reading wasn't within 7
because you can look right there, it's not within 8
tolerance.
And I said, " Wait a minute."
he did it again.
And the 9
And we 10 information, the data was not within tolerance.
So 11 at that point JD wanted to tweak it in.
And I said it was just like -- he wanted to 12 no.
And he said 13 tweak it in.
I said no.
14 And he said, " Marcel, but just look at 15 it, you know, it's nontech spec related."
I said 16 no.
And with that, because I insisted on not doing 17 it that way, he went off to talk to Bob.
I said, "You know, you got to 18 He said 19 talk to Bob."
And then he went off and talked to 20 Bob.
And I was sitting there in the racks with 21 sitting there.
22 And awhile later he comes back and he 23 says, " Bob says tweak it in."
And I go, you know, 24 that's just what happened.
And the next thing JD 25 had a DC card in his hand already filled out.
8 1
And then Bob comes in and takes the DC 2
card from JD and goes up front to tell the SS, that's what happened.
3 that's my 4
And then right behind Bob comes QC.
This you know, one-comes in, next
~
5 is.just in a cae 6
one comes in, that's it, and I'm just standing 7
there.
8 Then -- I had told JD we got to go to the 9
calibration procedure before he had gone off and 10 that this is what it was all about.
I wanted to go 11 to the calibration procedure and was giving the 12 values for the decade, the new decade box values.
13 And when I started doing that, he just 14 wanted to go talk to Bob.
So, then he w'eut and 15 talked to Bob and this is where we are back at, 16 where Bob is up at the SS's desk, I'm there.
There 17 is a big cart, so I step back and QC gets right up 18 there.
19 And JD shows them the "as found" ACOT 20 value.
And the QC guy verifies that.
JD shows him 21 the card, shows him the light.
And he is wetching i
22 and he is doing it.
He is watching that.
And I was 23 just standing there.
.24 And JD tweaks it in and calls out the "as 25 left" value.
So I document it.
So, I'm sitting
9 1-there and QC is gone, Bob's gone.
And I'm-2 complaining, I am seriously complaining.
3 I was serious complaining before and I 4
was complaining again.
I said,, man, this ain't 5
right.
You know, what am I going to.do.
6 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Complaining to?
7 MR. WILKINS:
JD.
I said what am I going 8
to do?
This don't jive.
I can't do this.
And he 9
is sitting there, you know, he is just sitting there 10 and I said, man, I can't do this, you know.
finally he says, "Well, 11 So he says 12 maybe we can talk to Bob and tell him we tweaked it 13 in on the'ACOT."
That's all I had.
It's done been 14 done and I'm sitting.there.
15 And JD puts the loop back in service.
16 So, with that I said okay.
And then he says, I
17
" Marcel, I have talked to David Wallace and he says 18 there may be something wrong with this procedure.
19 Go check the rev."
4 20 So I'm going like oh, man.
So I.go back i
21 to the shop.
And I sit there and I check the rev on 22 the computer.
It's the right rev.
And I'm going 23 like (Witness makes sound like shew).
You know,.
24 that would be a -- you know, you don't want to 25 you know.
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1 Anyway, so I signed my name to it, it's-l' 2
the right rev.
And I come back and JD has done gone before I left 3
-- he told me before he went to 4
the control room -- he was going to go on and work i
5 Unit 2's ACOT.
6 And I came back, you know, all the test i
7 equipment he had done moved over and I assumed 8
working on Unit 2.
And I was, sitting there, loop l
9 was back in service.
10 So I know because the SS had come back i
11 there at one time, because it normally doesn't take 12 this long and had asked what the problem was and JD 13 explained that there was a card out, I believe it 14 was JD.
15 And so I knew they. wanted it back in 16 service.
Even though it was back in service you got 17 to' have the paperwork and you have to inform the RO 18 that it's back in service and now everything is 19 okay.
i 20 So I go and get it signed off.
Complete 21 s a *..
And I go back to the shop.
I don't have any
'22 data on that data sheet.
I don't have nothing.
And 23 I'm sitting there and I'm looking at it.
I'm 24 sitting right at my desk and I'm looking at it and
.25 I'm going like (Witness demonstrates), you know, and 1
11 1
I'm staring at it.
you know, what time 2
I don't know what 3
it was or how long I was staring at it.
I wasn't 4
thi.s was not good, there was no way this was going 5
to work.
6 And JD comes back in, finishes his 7
paperwork.
He did the ACOTs on Unit 2 by himself, I 8
guess, I don't know.
He walked right by me into 9
Bob's office.
10 So I'm sitting there.
Now, he is gone to 11 AGP, that's his time that comes around.
And I'm 12 sitting there going I know what the deal is now, you 13 know.
14 I thought about it.
I didn't I
15 thought about it.
I thought that JD had gone to 16 talk to Bob.
JD said Bob said tweak it in.
And I 17 knew JD was leaving me_ holding the bag.
And I 18 thought that's what they all wanted.
19 So, I was thinking about this.
And then 20 Bob comes out and says, "Why ain't your paperwork a
21 finished?
We need your paperwork."
And I'm going, 22 you know, and he said, "Well, I need your paperwork 23 and you need to go on to AGP."
24 I'm sitting there.
And I do it.
I sat 25 there and I filled in values that I did not have.
I
12 1
thought that's what they all wanted.
2 And I gave it to Bob, went on to AGP.
3 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Did you say anything to i
4 Bob 5
MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
when you gave it to 6
MR. LIEBERMAN:
7 him?
8 MR. WILKINS:
And Bob did ask me when I 9
came back to check the'rev or the procedure, because I knew better than 10 I was feeling bad now, this but, he asked me what was wrong, 11 this.
This was I'm just che kind of guy, 12 because I had this 13 people can look at me and tell when I'm feeling 14 bad.
15 And he said, "What's wrong?"
And I said 16 nothing, I told him nothing.
17 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Obviously you were very 18 concerned at this point?
)
1 19 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
20 MR. LIEBERMAN:
You thought Bob knew 21 about it?
22 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
23 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Why didn't you tell Bob 1
24 what was on your mind?
25 MR. WILKINS:
Because -- see, I just 3
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j i
started working in with these fellows.
I 2
MR.' LIEBERMAN:
How long had you been 3
there?
4 MR. WILKINS:
I mean, I had been working f
5 at Plant Vogtle since construction of Unit.2.
I h ad -
6 come up from Plant Hatch and I worked there for a i
J 7
couple of years.
these fellows, I i.
8 And I respect JD and i
l 9
was just working with them a few weeks.
And I I thought, I truly thought that this, 10 didn't know 11 what I did, is what they wanted.
That's exactly f
l 12 what I thought, because it all looked like it.
i 13 JD is a good man.
He doesn't lie.
I i
14 sent him back specifically to tell Bob this.
And you know, this was not right.
We did not 15 this is 16 want to do it this way.
17 And I was the one objecting.
And he 18 comes back and tells me Bob wants it done this way.
19 And then I'm getting a conflict at the end there 20 when I'm saying huh-uh, 1 don't have any values.
21 JD sits there and shows QC the point to and I get this back, I'm looking, 22 sign off and he
-23 QC has signed here, that's wrong.
See, the whole 24 thing was wrong.
I was right the whole time.
I was 25 dead right.
You can't do it this way.
And it was
14' 1
sitting there looking bone face at me.
2 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Why do you say you 3
respect JD?
4 MR. WILKINS:
He is a Vietnam veteran.
5 He is a Christian and he let's ever'ybody know.
He 6
reads the Bible every day.
He is in the bell choir, 7
rings bells at his church.
And he is in the some 8
other choir.
9 He is just a good man.
And he is an 10 elder.
I respect him.
He's got a lot of experience 11 from wherever he worked at before and he knows a lot.
about electrical and stuff.
12 of things that 13 He'll sit there and explain to me about 14 vars and relays kind of always, you know.
I don't 15 know that much, I don't'have much practical 16 experience with relays and JD knows it.
17 And I saw him -- I worked with him a 18 little bit during start-up and he knows his stuff.
)
he's got the 19 I would say he is right up there 20 knowledge in that man that could be an engineer and
. 21 a darn good one.
22 MR. LIEBERMAN:
So you believed that when 23 he told you that he spoke to Bob?
24 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, he told me he did and 25 that Bob said to tweak it in.
d 4
1 l
15 1
MR. LIEBERMAN:
And you believed him?
4 2
MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
j 3
MR._LIEBERMAN:
Okay.
You have only been 1
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4 working in the group for a few weeks, but was this i
j 5
situation an unusual situation?
this should 6
MR. WILKINS:
Sir, this is 7
never happened.
8 MR. LIEBERMAN:
I appreciate that, i
9 but 10 MR. WILKINS:
Yeah.
j
)
does it happen?
l 11 MR. LIEBERMAN:
12 MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
But these guys 4
13 I had this' foreman, Charles Corley, and he knows me 14 real good and he'll ask me things.
He'll come up to when I'm 15 me and he can look at me when I'm 16 confused.
I can sit there and I can tell him 17 things.
i from my j
18 And I didn't know Bob.
I felt 19 instinct I felt that that's really what they wanted 20 me to do.
21 MR. JENKINS:
You had been working under 22 Bob for about a month at that time; is that i
23 correct?
24 MR. WILKINS:
I couldn't say 25 specifically.
4
16 1
MR. JENKINS:
Short time?
2 MR. WILKINS:
Short time.
J 3
MR. JENKINS:
Had you been working with 4
JD longer?
5 MR. WILKINS:
I haven't worked much with from 6
JD.
I have been in a different crew with JD 7
JD.
Sut I did have a chance to work with him which was real enlightening about vars and about relays 8
9 and about cts and how he measures out cts and found, 10 you know, he knows what he is talking about and he 11 can explain it, you know.
12 And some people do what they want to do.
i 13 He takes a real effort in explaining it and I like 14 asking him questions, because he can explain it to 15 where I can understand it and has the patience to 16 stand there and keep on saying it, even though I may 17 be hard headed, he'll keep on going and I'll get 18 it.
And that's it.
19 MR. LIEBERMAN:
When you had your conversations with JD was any consideration given to 20 21 the consequencee of not calibrating it properly?
when we were back 22 MR. WILKINS:
He 23 there in the racks and I was complaining before he i
24 went to -- before I told him to go to Bob or we j
25 decided to go to Bob, I said no, and I'm serious,
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17 i:=
2 1
I'm not weak, I said no, this is not going to go.
i 2
And he takes the data sheets from me and 1
i 3
looks in the column.
He said, " Marcel, it's not 4
tech spec related," you know.
5 MR. JENKINS:
When he left to go talk to 6
Bob, was he angry with you because you had raised 1
7 the question?
i he just wanted l
8 MR. WILK. INS:
He didn't l
9 to twe'ak'it in, that's what he was pressing me for.
l 4
1 20' And I sat there, the thing was right about on it and 1
I 11 I said no.
And with that he let go, you know.
you know, I was 12 It was like two people 1
13 arguing my point, he saw my point.
He would not l
1 14 have gone back to Bob if I hadn't told him, you 15 know, and had made these points clear.
And that's l
16 the reason why he went back to Bob because I would 17 not agree to do it thic way.
18 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Going back to the tech 19 spec issue, can there be safety issues even though i
20 things may not violate tech specs?
l 21 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir, there can be.
1 22 MR. LIEPERMAN:
How do you see your role 1
23 from a safety point of view?
Do you_have s
24 responsibility for safety?
25 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
i a
A
---m r.--..
6 18 1
MR. LIEBERMAN:
Can you discuss that for 2
a minute?
3 MR. WILKINS:
I take great care and I'm 4
meticulous in~the job I do.
I have always been that I always feel -
.I'm proud of my 5
way.
Nobody has 6
job.
My mama is proud of what I do.
My dad is 7
proud of what I do.
8 And I take a great pride in working for 9
Georgia Power.
And the'y have treated me real good 10 and I care about people.
11 I would never do anything to discredit my I always feel no matter what 12 honor.
Because I 13 because you know how people talk, you know, there is 14 gossip about this and that.
15 I have always got the security of knowing 16 that, you know, that I have done my best you 17 know, iike when you turnover a package, you know, 18 and you are troubleshooting, like you say, and you 19 come up with this idea, I think this is it and you 20 state it and then you give it to a turnover.
21 Well, you know, some guys cut each open, 22 nah, it wasn't that when they finish and whatever, 23' you know, things like that.
But I can always -- I 24-always felt secure in my heart.
I have the 25 I don't even listen to i
19 1
security in my heart that I have done the right l
2 thing, that I have been on the right track and that 3
I'm a smart person and that I am - - I'm like a rat.
4 I get stuck on it and I keep on and I'll 5
keep on it and I'll wring out wires if I have to, 6
I'll be right on it.
And so I always have the 7
security in myself, it's just I don't have to talk 8
to anybody to try to be nice to somebody or try to 9
talk bad about somebody else to make myself feel 10 better about myself.
I just don't say anything and 11 I have got that inner security of knowing that what 12 I have been doing and what I do is right and I stick 13 on it.
14 MR. LIEBERMAN:
But in this case you J
15 didn't meet your own standards?
16 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir, I did not meet my 17 own standards.
18 MR. LIEBERMAN:
If we took action against 19 you without saying what that action might be, would 20 you consider yourself an scapegoat?
Do you consider because you thought you
'21 yourself responsible or 22 had direction from your supervision that if we only 23 took action against you and not Bob or anybody else, 24 that would be unfair to you?
25 MR. WILKINS:
If you didn't take action I
20 1
against. Bob or JD?
That would be unfair to me.
2 MR."LIEBERMAN:
Because you were the one I
3' that actually wrote the material and on the i
4 document.
5 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir,'I would feel 6
because you men are men of wisdom here.
You 7
understand?
I was backed in-a corner.
I objected 8
to it.
9 If you only put action against me, then I 10 would think that you would miss the whole point.
I i
11 was backed in a corner.
And if you take people.and i
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j 12
.you back them in a corner, they are going to do the i
13 wrong thing.
14 MR. LIEBERMAN:
How about if we took I
15 action against you and Mr. Davis and not Bob?
16 MR. WILKINS:
That would be right.
That 17 would probably be right.
18 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Well, but Bob is 19 directing you and JD to violate procedures?
20 MR. WILKINS:
I have been thinking about 21 this for a long time.
And the only thing I can see because, you see, I know the whole story.
22 23 When I was gone to AGP that bistable was 24 coming in and Bob didn't do nothing about it.
If he 25 had known, he-would have had our ass out there and
4 21 i
1 done it.
And JD must have told me a lie.
I 2
MR. SKINNER:
May I interject a question 3
here?
You earlier in your description of what 4
occurred, you said while you were waiting for JD to 5
talk to Bob, shortly thereafter Bob and QC came back 1
6 within relative short terms of one another.
7 And it implied to me from your 8
description that JD showed the QC individual the j
9 ACOT values that you initially received and then JD I
10 tweaked the instrument and then ran the ACOT again J
11 to get the correct values.on the ACOT data sheet I
12 that was "as left" condition.
Was the QC individual or Bob either there 13 14 watching the tweaking occur?
15 MR. WILKINS:
QC was there, he was 16 watching diligently, he was watching it.
17 MR. SKINNER:
Okay.
18 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Did he understand what
)
19 was occurring?
20 MR. WILKINS:
I don't think he did.
I 21 mean, I think he understood he was there to witness 22 "as found" and "as left" values.
But I know he 1
23 didn't understand really what he was doing.
i h e w a s' d i r e c t e d to look 24 I mean, he was 25 at this, at this card by JD, did not look at the
=
l I
i 22 i
1 procedure.
He sat down.
He was directed to do so 2
and JD told him everything he had to do and told him 3
where to sign, but he did diligently what JD told 4
him to do.
5 See, JD is a very good man.
I think that i
that anybody would have a I don't think that 6
7 problem trusting JD or anything, because we all work i
8 together.
We are there 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> a day together for 9
long extended periods of time.
10 And you can tell if somebody is going to 11 say something that backtracks the next day or, you 12 know, telling a story.
1 13 MR. MATTHEWS:
I'd like to ask a question 14 with regard to the process because it relates to 15 another question I'm going to ask with regard to 16 Bob.
17 The process itself at the juncture that 18 the phrase tweak it in is used.
19 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
20 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay?
When that's 21 generally -- when that term is used does that imply 22 making an adjustment in a manner other than l
23 following a detailed calibration procedure?
24 MR. WILKINS:
It has a bad connotation to 25 it.
1 l
23 1
MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
that word is 2
MR. WILKINS:
It's not it doesn't 3
not calibrate, that word is 4
necessarily have to be out of the bounds of the 5
procedure, but 6
MR. MATTHEWS:
But it generally does?
I 7
mean, it's generally used that way?
when to me 8
MR. WILKING:
It's not
.9 when you say that word it means (Witness gestures).
10 MR. MATTHEWS:
What is the indication 11 that you or JD receives on the board that let's you 12 know that the adjustment has reached the point at 1
13 which the board is at least within certain limits of 14 tolerance?
Is it a light coming on or a light 4
s 15 coming off?
16 MR. WILKINS:
Yeah, it's extinguishing 1
17 and illuminating at a certain voltage value.
18 MR. MATTHEWS:
And when you adjust the 19 reostat or the wheel to the point that the light 20 either comes on or is extinguished, then the voltage 21 value. corresponding to that setting that hae.
22 succeeded in either turning the light on or off is 4
23 the voltage setting that you recorded _on the ACOT 4
24 data sheet?
25 MR. WILKINS:
Excuse me?
Are you
l 1-24 1
MR. MATTHEWS:
I'm asking what determined 2_
that you had1 reached a level at'which it was tweaked 3-in?
4 MR. WILKINS:
Oh, okay.
Well, you sit 5
there and you have got a whole bunch of test 6
equipment and you are adjusting one voltage source.
7 And it ~ says, you know, adjust until the light is l
8 illuminated, it will tell you which exact LED, you l
4 9
know.
10 MR. MATTHEWS:
So you are observing that
[
11 light?
12 MR. WILKINS:
You are observing the i
1 13 light.
And then you record that voltage where it j
I
?.
14-just comes on and then you record that voltage f
15 slowly with your -- you'know, you got a little l
1,,
16 voltage source that you are adjusting, you got it 7
i 17 hooked up to measure it and you then you adjust it 18 on down until it just extinguishes.
4 19 MR. MATTHEWS:
And that's the value j
20 that's recorded on the data sheet?
2 i
21 MR. WILKINS:
Correct.
i 22 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
Now, that process i
23 is distinct from one you had referred to earlier as 24 following the calibration procedure?
)
12 5 MR. WILKINS:
Excuse me, sir?
25 1
MR. MATTHEWS:
That process you just went 2
through and described to me.
3 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
4 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay, that's distinctly 5
different than the proceus you would.have gone 6
through had you followed the calibration procedure?
7 MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
No, sir.
It's 8
exactly what, we would have done.
The only thing see, another thing is when you set that 9
different 10 reostat at a set point, it's going to be exactly 11 right there.
So, when you set that reostat, that's 12 the set point.
13 The only thing different in the 14 calibration procedure, the only thing is that it had you put different values of T hot and T cold in 15 16 there for a power level.
17 And the only thing different would have 18 been the voltage values would be different due to 19 the different inputs that you are putting in at the 20 beginning of the circuit.
21 But basically it's the same thing.
And 22 the only thing different was that the inputs into 23 the front of the loop were not the same.
But if the 24 system was back in service, it would trip at the 25 right point.
It really would.
That's my belief.
l.
>?
i s
1 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
As opposed to the 2
way it was left?
3 MR. WILKINS:
Excuse me?
4 MR. MATTHEWS:
Meaning it didn't trip at.
5 the right point when you left it?
6 Mil. WILKINS:
Right.
7 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
8 MR. WILKINS:
But, do you understand what do you understand when 9
I'm saying when you 10 you 11 MR. MATTHEWS:
I think I do.
12 MR. WILKINS:
When you adjust that wheel you know, whenever the light illuminates 13 to the 14 at the particular voltage value, that voitage value 15 in the ACOT is to correspond with that voltage in 16 the calibration procedure.
17 The only reason the value in the 18 calibration procedure is greater is because you are 19 putting more resistance or difference of resistance 20 in the front of the loop.
if you 21 But ersentially the values if if you adjusted that thing on an 22 tweaked in that 23 ACOT value like we did and the procedure hadn't have 24 been wrong on the ACOT value, it would have been 25 dead on --
27 1
MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
on the calibration.
2 MR. WILKINS:
3 MR. MATTHEWS:
That helps.
4 MR. WILKINS:
It's whatever is going to 5
be is what it's going to be.
6 MR. MATTHEWS:
So there was an error in 7
the procedure.
8 MR. WILKINS:
There was a definite error 9
in the procedure.
The only 10 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
when JD was 11 MR. WILKINS:
And I 12 talking to me, you know, we were going back and 13 forth, it wasn't anything that I was worried that he 14 was going to do something that would cause a 15 violation.
16 I knew and JD knew and that was the basis 17 e~ what we were talking about.
What I was 18 complaining about was that we weren't following the 19 procedure and that I did not want to make up values 20 to put down on the data sheet that I did not have 21 because I like to put the valve down.
22 But it was sitting there, I knew
- see, 23 that's what we were talking about.
It wouldn't have 24 taken much more.
It really wouldn't have.
~2 5 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
I think I w
28 1
understand that distinction now, it was 2
illuminating.
And I appreciate your efforts to try 3
and reconstruct and give us your perceptions and 4
feelings about what was going on.
And I know it's 5
very difficult.
6 But I'm going to ask you to speculate.
7 When Bob Neal uses the term tweak it in, do you 8
think he understood that by so doing he was i
9 suggesting that you not follow the more rigorous 10 calibration procedure?
11 MR. WILKINS:
I couldn't say.
12 MR. MATTHEWS:
What I'm trying to get at 13 is whether you thought he knew that by you tweaking 14 it in, that that would result in you having to 15 fabricate calibration data in order to have the data 16 sheet be right?
j
\\
17 MR. W1LKINS:
See, going back to think on 18 this, see, I know Bob would have done the right i
19 thing.
He would have gone and ragged me and JD out 20 of that van, had us go out there and see what the 21 hell was going on because we were the last ones in 22 it and it was exactly that bistable 23 MR. MATTHEWS:
That was causing that that was causing the 24 MR. WILKINS:
25 problem.
And they filled out a DC.
And Bob
29 1
apparently was aware of the whole thing because, you 2
know, he had the card, he presented it to the SS.
3 So, as I think, looking back on it, this 4
is only looking back, that Bob must have not have 5
known.
And -- but I know JD took it that way.
6 See, me and JD were -- because that's 7
what the whole basis of the argument was about.
And 8-that was the way I perceived JD telling me, tweak it 9
in, man, and that's exactly what he is trying to 10 do.
And that's why the whole thing that's why 11 that's what I was objecting to.
12 MR. MATTHEWS:
So it's your understanding 13 that you and JD were clear what the implications 14 were 15 MR. WILKINS:
Yes.
the tweaking it in and 16 MR. MATTHEWS:
l 17 that would mean the data sheet wouldn't have 18 necessary values on it or you wouldn't be going 19 through the elaborate calibration procedure.
20 But you are not certain whether Bob was 21 aware.that that was the implication of saying tweak 22 it in?
23 MR. WILKINS:
No, I'm not._certain if Bob 24 knew that.
l l
25 MR. MATTHEWS:
Okay.
That's all I had.
l l
30 1
MR. LIEBERMAN:
If you had done it the 2
right way, how much longer would it have taken?
3 Half an hour, 15 minutes?
4 MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
Ten minutes.
5 MR. LIEBERMAN; What do you think then 6
would be the motivation of JD not just doing it 7
right in front of you?
8 MR. WILKINS:
Either one of two things.
9 Basically I know what i't is.
I think I know what it 10 is.
I don't want to hurt my partner, but you are 11 asking me this question.
12 It's just he is a go-getter, he tries to
\\
we had a certain time that we knew weeks 13 make 14 ahead of time that we were scheduled at such and 15 such a time to be to AGP, was right around that 16 time.
17 We had two j obs to do.
And we were just 18 on -- we were about finished with that one.
'And I or I don't j
"9 think that he wanted to get to AGP 20 think it was a great treat to go to AGP, I think he f
21 is just a go getter and and it was a shortcut.
22 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Does that suggest that 23 there may be other cases in the past that being in a 24 rush he may have cut corners, too?
25 MR. WILKINS:
I couldn't say that.
JD is
31 see, JD don't normally work he works with 1
2 with this type of stuff, I don't think, but I don't 3
know.
He is normally into electrical relays.
He 4
knows all about those thingc.
5 He knows about, you know, phase angles 6
and, you Xnow, getting into the serious electrical 7
stuff.
He can have a conversation with, you know, 8
good engineer and just 9
MR. LICBERMAN:
Well, I appreciate, you 10 know, that you don't want to say anything against 11 JD, but it appears he set you up here.
12 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
13 MR. LIEBERMAN:
He put you in a spot that 14 now there may be some pretty significant 15 consequences.
16 MR. WILKINS:
That's true.
17 MR. LIEBERMAN:
And really raises a
\\
18 question of trust.
4 19 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
I don't think I 1
I'll watch him from now on.
I really will 20 would 21 watch him.
4 22 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Let me switch the 23 subject.
From your perspective what is Georgia 24 Power's attitude towards following procedures?
25 MR. WILKINS:
They have always told me a
f
32 1
since I started working at Plant Hatch to follow 2
procedures.
If you are in the procedure, you do 3
what the procedures says, even though the whole 4
you know, you might trip the plant or whatever, you 5
are going to be al'1 right.
6 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What happens if you 7
question whether a procedure makes sense, are you 8
still supposed to follow it blindly or 9
MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
You stop and you 10 call your foreman because this isn't right.
Because i
11 you can't just follow a procedure, you have to use 12 your electronic know how or your knowledge of the 13 system or your training along with it.
14 So like typographical errors, whether you whether you know'that's just a typo or if 15 can you know it's 16 this is such a bad thing that it 17 totally incorrect and you can't do it that way, then i
18 you have to go tell your foreman and he'll tell you 19 51C it or something like that, make a change to the and, you know, to 51C it.
j 20 procedure and it 21 If it's an importart job you are doing, 22 it doesn't take long to go through the paperwork, to 23 make the applicable changes to the procedures so you i
24 can continue.
25 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What is Georgia Power's i
33 1
response when people violate procedures?
2 Accidentally make.a mistake.
3 MR. WILKINS:
If they accidentally?
~4 MR. LIEBERMAN:
- Yes.,
MR. WILKINP:
I think it's a personnel 5
6 error and they don't like_ personnel errors.
And you 7
take disciplinary action.
8 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What would be an example 9
of a disciplinary action taken if someone were 10 sloppy doing a job maybe say?
11 MR. WILKINS:
Made a mistake and was 12 sloppy about it?
They get a letter of reprimand and you know, 13 probably n'ot given a raise or put bad 14 counsel him as far as his working is not up to par, 15 that he needs to get his act together, that you 16 know, counsel them on a professional basis telling and they do it.
17 them my boss did it 18 They sit there and they 19 to me, said Marcel, like Charles was telling me I haven't had one with Bob, but 20 before I went yo1 know, that I can do anything 21 that I have 22 that I got this kind of low self esteem of myself or 23 something like that and encouraging me because he 24 sees the work that I do.
25 And I might not be the smartest fellow,
.... _ _ _.. _ _ ~. _
34
]
1 but as I say, I stick on it and I stay on a job and, 2
you know, he's been encouraging me, you know,.
3 telling me that I am good, you know, even though he that I have doubts about myself 4
felt.that I had 1
5 as.being smart or something.
6 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What's the company I
7 attitude towards more deliberate type violations, 1
i 8
'when someone purposefully cuts a corner?
9 MR. WILKINS:
They fire them right away.
i 10 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What happened to you?
l 11 MR. WILKINS:
I guess I had Mr. Shipman j
4 I
12 here and my bosses, they understood that I didn't 13 willingly try to do anything.
But see, they got me l
14 and'JD.right up, you know, right away and we told 15 the truth, t
16 I think they really respected that out of 1
[.
17 u s ', because it's hard to tell the truth.
I mean, a
it's hard to sit here and it's easy 18 it's hard j'
19 explain to y'all and come up to this big town and
)
20 drive in this traffic, sit up here and admit to all 21 you-all guys what I did and it was hard back when 22 they got us in the office.
23 So it takes a lot more to tell the truth j
I 24 than it does to make a mistake.
But, they respected I feel, that we told the 25 that.
They saw that e
35 1
truth, that was number one thing.
2 And they had the wisdom and insight in 3
knowing that we are not bad people, that we are very and we were trying to do the job, 4
good people but 5
but the j'ob just went wrong.
6 And I figure nobody is lying or nobody is 7
trying to cover anything up or nobody has tried to 8
do any of that beca.use we have told the truth 9
straight up.
10 It's just that communications, I figure 11 they figure broke down.
It was just 12 communications.
I was reading something wrong, JD 13 might have read something into what Bob was saying.
\\
14 I knew what JD was saying I thought, but 15 I might have read that wrong.
And it all turned 16 out, trying to do the job right not trying to sluff 17 off at all and it just ended up just turning into a just a mess.
18 19 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Did you tell the company 20 that it was your view that JD had told you that Bob 21 had told him to tweak it?
22 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir, i
23 MR. LIEBERMAN:
I have to_ respond to your 24 comment about not trying to cover it up.
After the 25 fact you might have been candid.
But I guess during I
~.
36 6
1 the occurrence it was a cover-up, wasn't it?
2 MR. WILKINS:
Excuse me?
3 MR. LIEBERMAN:
During the occurrence 4
when you fabricated the records that was a cover-up, 5
wasn't it?
6 MR. WILKINS:
You can look at it two 7
ways.
The way I look at it is that's what they all everybody I was involved with 8
wanted.
That's who 9
wanted.
10 MR. LIEBERMAN:
You think the company 11 wanted you to do it that way?
l 12 MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
I know Mr.
13 shipman wouldn't have wanted that.
I know they 14 wouldn't have wanted that.
I know my supervisor 15 wouldn't have wanted that, j
but, the people I was 16 But, you know 17 dealing with and for the reasons I explained, I 18 honestly did think that that's what they wanted, 19 because it all made sense.
20 MR. LIEBERMAN:
But you told me earlier l
21 that other than. recognizing it was not a tech spec 22 violation --
i 23 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
you didn't consider 24 MR. LIEBERMAN:
25 the safety consequences and make this adjustment, i
37 s
1 you developed some records, indicated everything was 2
right when it wasn't?
3 MR. WILKINS:
Yes.
I wasn't planning on 4
doing that.
5 MR. LIEBERMAN:
But you did it?
6 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
7 MR..LIEBERMAN:
And the question we have 8
to decide is'given your willingness at least once to 9
do it this way, without regard to the consequences, 10 and given your responsibility for safety that you 11 spoke earlier about, why should we have confidence 12 in the future this won't happen again when you get in a situation with a strong willed person who tells 13 14 you that your boss said it's okay to violate your f
15 procedure?
16 MR. WILKINS:
Because of all of this I 17 will never ever ever do that again.
I never ever 18 thought about it before, I never been put in a 19 situation like that before.
20 Because of all of this I will never ever 21 do that again.
I'll shout to the highest mountain.
22 I will not do it again, that I will tell in a 23 minute.
I'll go tell the world.
I'll go tell my 24 boss.
25 If my boss tells me no, I'll go to my
r I
38
)j'
)
1 supervisor.
I don't want to ever have to go through 1
l 2
this again.
]
I 3
And I feel bad about it.
I feel real bad 4
about this.
And I understand that y'all represent 5
the. people.
And the people don't want anybody 1
6 sitting there doing this type of thing.
1 7
MR. LIEBERMAN:
Okay.
What the company l
8 did for you I gather is they gave you 4
l 9
MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
10 MR. LIEBERMAN:
11, 12 MR. WILKINS:
13 14 15 16 17 18 l
w8*at i
20 You know, and I had gone through several 21 meetings and we had been truthful.
And I knew I was l
l I thought they were going to fire me.
22 getting l
23 But I prayed.
I went to church and sat 24 there and I prayed that these people would i
l 25 understand that me and JD did not want to do this,
- 1...
39 s
but, they 1
we didn't try to do it.
We are not 2
gave me that off time.
3 And they told me I have to make a 4
decision whether I want to work for Georgia Power or 5
not.
So, you take this day off, you-know what 6
happened, you know, they explained it all to me.
7 I was in Mr. Shipman's office and he had 8
a group of guys kind of like yourself and he sat me 9
down on this long couch and there was a lady like 10 her, you know, sitting there taking it, told me I 11 I had to make a decision here.
12 And I went off and I still want to work 13 for Georgi'a Power.
But then I had to come back that-14 night or the next day on night shift and I had to 15 meet my supervisor Scott Hammond.
And he asked me, 16 you still want to work for Georgia Power?
And I 17 said yes.
18 MR. LIEBERMAN:
So you explained to Mr.
19 Shipman and the group of folks that were there just 20 like you are doing here what happened?
21 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
22 MR. LIEBERMAN:
And then was that the end 23 of it?
24 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
25 MR. LIEBERMAN:
They said yes?
2
40 I
l J
1 MR. WILKINS:
Yeah, they said yes.
And 2
my supervisor counscled me, said now, you know, 3
don't want you to be scared out there, you know, we 4
don't want you to doubt yourself.
And I said I understood exactly:what 5
6 happened.
And that I would not let that happen 7
again.
But it did not make me scared to go out in 8
the field.
And then they were putting me back on 9
j obs where I was back in Delta T T av, I was 10 flipping bistables in there, doing safety sequencer 11 work and they had put me right back out there and I 12 have no problem.
13 See, I understand what happened here.
14 Within myself I know what happened here.
Because I 15 probably have got a little bit of a weaker 16 personality, I don't think there is anything wrong 17 wit'h my personality.
18 But I think I wasn't as strong as I 19 should have been.
I read a lot into people by their 20 motions, by what they say because that's just the 21 kind of person I am.
And 22 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Has the company said 23 anything about future raises or promotions or 24 probation or anything of that sort?
25 MR. WILKINS:
41 1
l 2
if I 3
4 do anything wrong, it's a no questions barred, I'm i
5 out; of here.
They don't even -- won't even talk to d
l 6
.me.
1
' \\
4
)said now we don't 7
8 want you to be scared, you know, but you watch about i
.9 you coming into work.inte or leaving early or
- i 10 anything else, it's going to be no question, you 4
11 see.
Anything else I do that's wrong, and it's t
i 12 worth being talked to, I don't even get a letter of 4
l 13 reprimand, I don't even get a counseling session.
i because I should.know 14 I don't if ^ I do anything wrong, I'm 15 16
- history, 17 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What happens after that?
i i
i i
18 Is it a whole new slate?
(
19 MR. WILKINS:
I think that they got rules j
20 about, you know, letters of reprimand in your files 21 stay a year or eo.
I don't know what they do with l
- p' )
J r
22
{
23 2.
(.,
you i
25 i
l i
i
42 1
know, I'll be all right as far as if I do something 2
wrong.
on my 3
But I don't think that's ever 4
personnel file, I don't think that's going to go 5
away.
But I think as far as if I do.anything wrong that they are going to let 6
7 me go,j you know, I get a 8
little slack.
9 MR. LIEBERMAN:
What's the rumor mill at 10 the plant about what happened?
11 MR. WILKINS:
I don't listen to people.
12 I just know in my soul that I have told the truth 13 and tried to convey it to people and Georgia Power 14 understood and God, that was a miracle that they 15 understood.
16 They let me keep my job and haven't been they have been counseling me on not to be scared 17 18 and they advised me of, like I told you, ever'ything was straight up front with me.
19 20 And I have been trying to work hard.
And 21 I told them that at the end, said, I'm going to 1
22 try to work hard, because my supervisor said, "You 23 know, Marcel you are going to have to work hard" 24 because I was a darn good technician.
25 And he said, "You are going to have to
+
r
43 6
1 work hard to make up for this, you know, I mean for 2
us to regain our confidence in you."
3 MR. LIEBERMAN:
But have your fellow 4
workers said anything like boy, you're really_ lucky 5
they didn't take more action or wow, they were
-~
6 really tough with you or any reaction?
7 MR. WILKINS:
I don't listen to them.
I 8
know they'came up and shook my hand and wished me 9-the best of luck yesterday when I was leaving to 10 come up here.
They said they would be thinking 11 about me, a couple guys did that.
12 MR. JENKINS:
Do you think as a result of 13 this incident that the word has gotten out to other 14 people throughout the plant, technicians, that they 15 would be now less likely to get involved in 16 something like that in the future 17 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
based on what happened 18 MR. JENKINS:
19 to you and you-all?
20 MR. WILKINS:
Yes, sir.
Mr. Shipman gave I think they -- the gufs 21 a letter out that 22
- see, I' haven't been saying much about it, you know, 23 I'm kind of like quiet and to myself.
24 And I just sit there and I really don't 25 care what other people say about me and whatever.
.. ~
.,~
I 44 1
4 4
i l
but they know.
1 And 1
i 2
And Mr. Shipman sent out a letter l
yesterday to everybody's box personally addressed 3
4 there and I got one.
And it's got what his thoughts 5
on people, that when you do something wrong, I I
6 you know, it's just thoughts on if you do something i
7 wrong, to be truthful about it and be straight up 1
they are still going to l
8 and, you know, that it's i
9 take action against you, but it's better to be and then he attached, was the 10 honest basically is j
11
. letter y'all sent out informing people about 12 f alsif ication of plant records.
13 And it sits there and it talks about all I
14 the fellows at Oyster Creek and all them and then little paragraph sitting there saying 15 it's got a you know, what happened to all these 16
-that if t
17-other fellows and it's got me and JD's incident down 18 there.
And then it's got the rules, y'all's rules 19 on willful misconduct.with it, too.
So they all got l
1 20' a copy and then 21 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Have you had any t
22 conversations with JD in the past few weeks j
23 concerning this whole question of are you sure Bob you know, you guys set me up or did we 24
_ told me 25 misunderstand or --
t
--,ure
.++w-
>-----c
- + " -
45 l*
1 1
MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
All I talked to he was going to wear a suit today, so I 4
2 JD 3
. decided to wear a suit.
We don't talk about it.
4 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Okay,.
Anybody else have 5
any questions, sir?
6 MR. EBENETER:
No, I don't have any.
7 MR. MATTHEWS:
No.
8 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Mr. Shipman, you have 4
9 anything to say?
We appreciate your coming today.
4 10 I.know it's been very hard for you, very serious 11 matter.
You don't take it. lightly, it's clear from 12 the conversation.
what you 4
We'll have to consider your 13 j
14 have told us and we'll let you know the outcome of i
15 our decision.
16 MR. WILKINS:
Can I ask you how long?
I I thought it 17 have been going through this since 18 was all over with, you know, after Georgia Power 19 made their decision and then I was working hard and everything was going back to normal and then this 20 21 comes up and it's just torn my life apart, kind of 22 like puts a lot of doubt in me.
1 J
23 Can you tell me how long?
24 MR. LIEBERMAN:
It really is hard to say.
l 25 MR. EBENETER:
We will try to give you a
46 1
the answer as soon as we can, Mr. Wilkins.
2 MR. WIT PINS:
Thank you.
3 MR. EBENETER:
We understand your 4
position.
And as Jim said, we don't have any set 5
procedure on it.
6 We get all the information that's 7
necessary today and we can -- as soon as we can make 8
a decision, we'll call you personally.
9 MR. WILKINS:
I appreciate it.
See, I 10 was buying this house and I had to go back and tell 11 the banker that, you know, I should withdraw my 12 application.
I did.
13 MR. LIEBERMAN:
You did do that?
14 MR. WILKINS:
Yeah, I withdrew my 15 application.
It was a mutual. decision -- I got a 16 letter, mutual decision between me and the bank to 17 withdraw my application after I told the banker 18 about what I was going through.
19 And he wrote me a letter.
So, maybe the 20 fellow whose house I was buying give me my earnest 21 money back.
22 MR. EBENETER:
We'll try to do it as 23 quickly as we can.
24 MR. WILKINS:
I appreciate it.
25 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Anything else you would
47 1
like to tell us?
2 MR. WILKINS:
No, sir.
3 MR. LIEBERMAN:
Thank you very much.
4 MR. WILKINS:
Thank you.
5 (Conference concluded at 12:00 noon.)
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
=.
e 48 9
l 1
2 3
STATE OF GEORGIA:
4 COUNTY OF FULTON:
5 6
I hereby certify that the above and 7
foregoing proceedings were taken down, as 8
stated in the caption, and reduced to
~
9 typewriting under my direction, and that the
~
10 foregoing pages 1 through 47 represent a true, il correct, and complete transcript of said 12 proceedings.
13 This, the 16th day of May, 1992.
14 15 16 1
17 l A [d 18
_ ~
WOOD, CCR-A-752 LINDA E.
19 My commission expires the 13th day of September, 1993.
20 21 22 23 24 25
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USNRC Mr John D Davis ATTN:
S. D. Ebneter i
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/d lo MAlWNG LABEL Service Analysis & Proof of Delivei e
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USNRC Mr Marc'el C. Wilkins ATTN"! Mr. S. D. Ebneter Em Regional Administrator Em 101 Marietta Street NW e*
Marietta Towers suite 2900 "L
l Atlanta, Georgia 30323
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