ML20125A691
| ML20125A691 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Zimmer |
| Issue date: | 08/07/1979 |
| From: | Bechhoefer C, Bright G, Hooper F Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908140141 | |
| Download: ML20125A691 (205) | |
Text
1 fIEGULAIORY DOCKEURECOPY NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION O ,
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IN THE MATTER OF: 6* i '.#, 3 , LZ 7 ,,3= ".'...y
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Cincinnati Gas & Electric Company y/f ,[
(William Zimmer Nuclear Facility)
, Docket No. 50-358-OL x-Place -
Cincinnati, Ohio Date - Pages Tuesday, August ft, 1979 2222 - 2427
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Telephone:
( %, , (202)547-3700 ACE -FEDERAL REPORTERS,INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street ~
Woshington, D.C. 20001 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE DAILY 7fo TN'09
2222
,CR6318 I UNITED STATSI OF AMERICA PARKER / 2 NCCI. EAR REGU:GATOP.'l COMMISSION 13EACH/RII,EY 3 - - - - .. - _.j,.
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4 In the 'estter of': :
5 Cincinnc.ti act ti Elec':r' s Ocupaty : rockst t.:o. 50-358 -
S (William Z12xer Nuclear Facility) :
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8 I Cour:roca 305 U. S. Fede::t:1 Courthouco 9 i 5!1 and Walnut Shree's i
k ic Etesday 7 August 1973 I
We hear #ng v'..' coavened, p2rsuant to afjournmeat,
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- 25 a,n 12 l} BEFORE: i i ,
l' CliART.ES ..!ZC!1E00FSR, Ch.airma.;t,
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i: A onic :Mfety and aicansing I! card i
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'- 16 l A.?PEARAWS!!: -
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17 ' On Irah112 cf Ge A; 91icant:
13 and MIdu J. Ti'TTERHAmi, T7Jf 3. COInila. 7R,, Esq .
g E2 ], C>mler, :locre G Corber,1747 :?or.n :Vivanir f A r.ntu e , s
. W. Wanhingtonc.0, C. 20006
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On tch.C.i of the Utolaar RegtO.rttery Cc;mn.scian Staff 3
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jub 2222-A I APPEAltANCES (Contintted} =
2 For the Intervanor, Miarai Vn11ey Pcwer Projcct:
3 LFJsH S. TOSIK, Ezq., 3454 Cornell Place, 4 Cinainr.ati,WTX11c 45220 5 ALso:
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- 4 Witness: Direct-V. Dire Cross ~ Rad, Rec. Doa2<
3 William Schwiersi) 4 Vernon Pence ) 2232 Earl Bergraann )
Richard Kananea 2262 2263 2300 2423 240(
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,. 8/7/77 1
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' Pcrker/BeachA CtIAIRMA'i BECHiiOEF3R: The proceeding will ccme td 7,Riley 3 order.
CRER6318 4 The boarf. ha.c issued an crder or is issuing an ldsvid 5 order tcday admitting the three new contentiens which david 1 6 are before us: t.io from. the City of cirfcinnati; one
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7 from the Miami Valley 9:wer Pcwsr Projectj. ife established v.
8 a discovery schedule, and we anticipate 'that thosc 9 contentio:ts vill be hearil rf: 'a later session,which we'll 10 have in the fall or winter.
3; This morning we anticipated beginning with the 12 witnesses who'were on tno stand when we adjourned last 13 time, on contentions li and 16, 14 But, arc there any preliminary matters that 15 any of the parties want to raise IG m. Brena d g7 MR. BREtTrr.33: Thanhycu, Mr. Chairman.
18 I'd like the reccrd to reflect that this gg morning the staff handed cut three sets of testimony to the
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20 board and the parties: ene is entitled " Staff ~c Respence 21 to the Atomic Safety ar.d Licensing Board's Question g Regarding 10 CFR Part 50, Appendi:: I.
Tho ceccnd of tha thras is entid:d " Dire:t 2a.
Testit:cnf of Thomr.3 Wn<hl Usgarding Pr:scu ro Nsting of
, Doors and the Une o.f 1:7.;rcpar Usa cf Bo1M for the Travcling 45 .'
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s 2225 d vid2 f Screen."
2 The third set of documeds is entitled " Direct 3 Testimony of Jack Hughes and Tkmas E. Vandel Regarding 4 Electrical Deficiencies."
5 With respect to the first two, the staff would They are 6 propose to put witnasses on for any questions. !
7 both followup items, as the board and the pnrties will 8 recognisa.
g And those witnesses would be availablo here this 10 week and at the board's convenience.
gg Mr. Britz vould be the witness on Appendix I 12 material; he'll be in late this afternoon and will be available as early as temorreu. I'd lika to avoid 93 34 having to keep him here all week once he arrives, but we 15 can work dat out. .
With respect to the third set, I do not propose 16 :
37 to furnish witnessas to be cross examined on this item.
This item is a followup to the affidavit of Mr. Blanch, 18 which Miami Valley supplied to the board at the last 19 session. Most of the affidavit, I beliove it was ruled 20 by the board -- and certainly viewed by the staff -- was 21 not relevant to any of the contentions, f 22 me f the Blanch affidavf.t was relevant; 23 ragardless, the sta . perfcmad'. a vary thorough investigatio'n 6
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of the entira affidavit. That investigation is reflected j 45 l t
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2226 divid3 1 in an NRC investigation report which is attached to th3 2 testimony I indicated.
3 The status of'Mr. Blanch's affidavit gota 4 "curion.ser and curiouser" as this proconding goes on: I 5 do not believa that we shpuld get overly tochnical in 6 administrativ proceedindsintermsoflettingtechnicalities 7 stop us from getting to the merits of things, but it 8 gets impossible to try a case on the basis of secondhand 9 innendo and thirdhand hoursay.
10 We have Mr. Blach's affidavit. We went out and 19 looked at it. At that tims we believed :tr. Blanch would 12 be a witness sponsored by Miami Valley. Miami Valley has now filed a documet entitled " Miami Vallay Power Project's 13 34 Motion to Quash Applicant's Subpoena to Donald Blanch."
15 It's my understanding that the cub'pcona was never i 16 actually served, to technically I'm not sure hcw it can be quashed. But the honrt of the mattar --
17 18 CHAIRMAN DECHHOEFER: The board issued an order gg j some time ago quashing that subpcena. Maybe it didn't get 20 served. ,
MR. BRENNER: All right. l 21 l 22 Tha heart of the matter of course is that the i'
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applicant and the staff wanted to have discovery of !
t Mr. Blach ac longas he tras tr prospective witness. In fact g
the staff did have occor mnitv- to speak to his.. Mc as , --
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2227 dnvid4 1 accommodated his schedule. We net with him in the evening.
2 We took him on a tour cf the plant along with representativas 3 of the ,,uolicant on another evening.
4 All that is 6c mmonned in the inrentigation l'
The conclusion of the investigatica report, I 5l i report.
6, might indicate,- is that many of Mr. Blanch'n ituns are not safety related. Scr.:e of the items are safety related, 7
a but were being resolved indepontly of Mr. Ult.ch's 9 allegations.
to The reason I don't pr pose to nut uh ::;e witnessts jj on, I think is very 3.!cGO: we re.7ard this n2 .Jcarthing not before the bocrd now that fir. Blanch has baan uithdrawn. In p.
that case, the staff har perfer. Tad its feb and has 13 34 complated its invao':igation repcrt, and us will tr.Le it a part af .che rccord, par, cr :ne o-fricia.3 recora, anc, 1n - .. . .
15 g fact, forconvenienca, w 'll hind it in. thz tistimony to serve as a .; asis, 'c ,:hin , for why Mr. Elanch's 97 testimony was probably :ithdrc.im.
4
- iy prchl.m is ther.3 10 19 is at least the innlict. bion ir Niami Vallre's =ction that g thG reason "O L'a5 ithdrLun . ras beaa.uce of x= : aort of .
time constrainta.
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- ~ david 6 MR. comer: Sir, we :iille of c.cursa, betweenrnw a 'it'Id the end of this proacediag file several more mt.tndments.
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10 r.r.t. COUNEn: The stu:gency plan.
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2232 CR 6310 JWBmch
- 2 1 CHAIRMAN.DECHHOEFER: I believe wo may wish to folS preceed with uhe applicant's witnesses. I believe they'ra david 2; 3 already sworn and Mirmi Valley was cross-examining.
4 MR. CONNER: The witness 33 are in the jury bor !
5 in the same pacition ac in tha lact secsion: Mr. Pence in 6 the center,100. Schuf.or to his left, and Mr. Ecrgaann to s
7 his right, s You may proceed with crosa-o:camining.
TrTn e r e u p o n ,
9 10 N 'E4 SCEWIERS g VIRNOH PENCE i se ,, and 13 ,L M BNuW g
g resumed the stand and, having been previously duly cworn, ,
I I
Ig were ermined and tactifiaa further as follotis: i
.,6 ,
CROSS-UXAMIUY3 ION ;
BY MS. KOSIK: ;
i7 e
Mr. Penco, you statad in your teatimony that O.
g
, g[ the contrcl rods are pached and shipped according to i
,,.i special requiremonts to ent:ure delivery in the sana condition ,,
4 t ,
in which thr,y wero shipped. '
Ik i Would you describa uhat thone speci? requironente cro?
.G,3 U a
' MR. CCNNER: I? the Beard pleasc, I uould liks 74 to, ens, 20g200t M3, Ecsi2 to uce the microph>me., if sho
! t l
2233 2 jwb 1 can. We can barely henr her.
2 T.co -
I-3 CHT.IEGI SECH30EFER: .I 6cn't thiah it's !
t
.t 4 working. !
5C Hn. COMIGE: Ih's working to coua e.ntanh, but S, '
we'ra having difficulty Maring har, al::nady, i i
i' t
/ dacendly, for the raccrd, us cbject to MIPP j
- l. :
8g 1
being allowetd to uce dif hrent counsel for cicac-enactination.
S Mr. Feldman ctarted cross-G: cuinction with these
- 10 ,I contentionc. !
i
(}'
11 Thirdly, we c',.) ject to theca cvar-c;:meralized !
i.
12 questions .3uch cc the Destrd auct.2ined at the lash hearing.
1:
e 11 13 ; Ecre again. if they hase acmc apecific go.senione, they i i
1,; should be us%cd as such; not thesa generalinca "pleaso 15 .
doccribe how pcuc.+ wc0 fc.indac and grzw ov.3r'the inst i
9 3 hundred yhrc. The tima for diccovery la over. -
l l
So we obje_ct, and uo '.cnt to ras 1:a it clear ct l 17 a
?
ja i the beginning that we objact to thew very gonarcliced I
79 questiona en .lin;; for e.very kind of preceduro chat migitt 1 i
- m. , he invo?.ved :..c the shipacut of contrcl rede . I.
ME. BRElill2K Mr. Chairman? l 73 p ,
d:. !
l,,, CSIR}ihN BBCEIM32ER: Mr. 3ranner, t 9..9 ,
<.a ,.
M?.. B3 Elm.n tiith roupcot to tho objection coinr*
8
- . tj to cettncnl, ;'. think th
- .B .2 M.'. thin tha Board' c 6iucroticu, !
and it e.irt..c to mc that ti'.3 n.rli2r c: ass-c:'. lir; tion wau " .
E____._..___._._._.___________.__.____.___.__.__._________________._.___.___.__ _________m_____
3 jwb 2234 1 solely en qualifications, and it is kind of a readily 2 divisible area, and the staff would have no objection to 3 Ms. Kosih conducting the crocs-e:: amination.
4 With respect to the cbjection of the quection
~
5 being overgeneralized, I think it's a littla premature. l 6 The quesclon gets an ancWW1 it docorves of coursa. If 1
1 7 you have a general question, ycu gat a general ancwer.
It 8 If it goes on like th' at, I think t'le objection i l
6 may becemo valid and the Ecard could properly ask where's 9
10 the cross-exanination going, but that ic only the first 11 question and clearly it's still in the foundation stage.
12 (Board conferring.) c !
CHAIF2.iAM B.?.CIIH]EFER: At this stage, wo will I.
g i
overrule all the objectiona, but wo do expect the quections 14 l So you may ask as a fcundation the i 15 to got more apscific.
one that you asked, but eventually you have got to get l
16 'i '
t' g 7 li - mora specific, ;
18 You may proceed. I i i JIF.GSS PE4CE; Okay, are we operational?^
49 3, .
.,9
.! We have specilic packaging instructionc, spccific to the ,!
?
,g control reda. Uc have special types of defined n3 to the type of structural support, and how many control ccds can be 22j 33 j; put in a box, things of this naturs; that in that way it !
!I it la specific packaging in.scruction
. u. . 3 s
4 jwb 2235 I BY MS. KOSIK:
. e-2 0 And how do you determine that the 2 requirencnto 3 were met?
4 A (Witness Ponca) This is a part of our normal 5 QC requirenants in citr Wilmington operations.
S S How do you datermine that they were not?
7 A I'm not sure .C unSarotand what you noan.
8 G I maan, do you rely on other inspectors' 9 paperwerk? Or do you -~ roos somaone, in person, check i 10 the packaging to make sura that it una properly packaged 11 according to these specificctiona?
12 & We hava a regular quality control organization U3 that dosc inspection of these items.
id .
G Mcw is that G*d thah docs that inspecting? i I -
t$ A correct. l 16 1 G And dcou that inspecting tske place at the 17 plant in Wilnington?
gg A Yes.
- g G How about when they reach the aita? Is it l
20 inCPocted there regarding shipping and packaging 21 requirements?
22 ( A Well, thero'o an inopzetion that's done to find i
23 out whether there may havo bson any damage dens to the 24 i .. control rede during hant. ling or chipping.
g G I!cw you n at d pr3vio mly that theru tre 13*J j
- b. .
E' 9
/' 5 jwb 1
control rods, plus S sparoc, totaling 142. Did thoso all 2 arrive at the site in the same shipment?
-3 A I am not sure.
4, O. Dc you know wh ther thsy arrived over a wide 5 period of tine? Or within the same general time frame?
6 A Ncrmally, I think thsy con:e in in about threo 7 shipments over anybe a poriod of three to five months, and 8 the sparcs nay follow that anywharo frca -- along with the 9 latter chipments -- to anything, nayho six to aight months 10 after that, but I'm not aura of the specifice for this 11 plant.
12 0 Do you know het much timo elapaad between the 13 arrival of the centrol rMs and tha time of ir_i:pection on 14 , site? _
=
t 15 A. No.
16 J -0 By the tima thay wera being inspected on-cite, k
17 were they all -- were all the conurol rod on cito? Or wero la mora coming in?
10 i E To my knowledge, thcy wore all on cito.
20 j 0 Uero the centrol reda inopoeted at the area whara at they were atorad? Or wara they brought to another crea to
> i, 2p, j ba inspected? I gj[
- a. I believ9 t'tay vera hrought to uncther nraa whoro
., }
^
they werc incpacted. !
24 i+ i g1 s
.j q
. 'C And ;ho 9Irfc a M 2his inope tien?
4
(
, 6 jwb 2237 1 A. I believe thic was done by subcontractors 2 Reactor Controls, Incorporated.
3 C Do you iciow specifics.11y who perfor:c.ed the 4 inspaction?
5 A. Ncres of people, I do not know.
6 MR. CONMER: 25 the Board pleana, wo vould note 7 that Ms. Kosik ha.3 addrecacd' her question cpscifically to 8 ,
Mr. Pence, who is tha CE person who nanufactureo this. She i
G is now asking questions n'.:Out t'ta inapection that was 10 conduct 2d at tha plant.
n Mr. Schwicrs ad courso is the actcher of this 12 panel in charge of GA. ::d she wants to cddress her questiono pw: 1 to the panel, sho probably would cet e.ncuers and r:cva a en l
lot of tima. Decauco ebviously this is somothing ac ; vithin
- 4'i
.;3 }
I the purvicu er know1cGe of this individual,'while of courco .
,1 G it is in the knowledge of the panel, i
E. IMSI2;: Well, t would requact that whoever 17 to has the an susr on the par.a1 would ansuor the quoction.
( p' ! 141. C T S 37.: Thacs kinds of quostione should I
o 23[ be to Mr. Lo gmann, who is cur quarterback vitacca, and he 21 cocid then rafer it to the porten who hcc the proper c .>. ,
ancucr.
) I
-.p 93 CH M 2 3 N BECriTO T 2R: I think.that procedurc !
t J ::culd like to acc if - '.:# rt c 3.~, 1,3;
'y would to echiafactory. ;
C
.g,,. j hnvir.g trer.blo horring :l cur quu:nuionc. Ia thern any way of 4 1 e
7 jub 2238 1 setting up the gain on her microphone? Is thero any way I
2 of sotting up the gain c.i the voluma en your micrcphons?
3 Because we'ra having real trcubic haaring you.
4,li (Pause.)
5! C3AIDME DECEITER: Wall, do yem- beat. Just S try your best to epsch as loudly as you cca.
7 E' MS . I"0SIK:
~
2 G Ohay, I'm regnsting thst the mambo of the 9 panel who hco the answer to the question I'm asking vill 10 pleasa ansvar it; or it's directed to Mr. Borgmann who can 1
- 1 than ash tha prep
- r perso.1.
12 Did all the control rods arrive in a aingle la shipment? Or did thay ar::'.vc at the site ever a peried of I- I 14 tinn?
I i3 n. (Eltnoss ScIntern) Thecentrclrh>daarrived i
10 j over a period of tiaa, i'hasc are quits larici, The bonec i7 are 1.0 P.o 15 feet in 1.... . '2 hay're packaged three to n
- g box, and with 137 control redo, that macao ths
- e c~s remo 59 40 bence. Sc thia -- thny could not all ha loaded on one p,o truch. Sc tha n r.bor of trucks was - a little loudor?
c ui The nuntber of trucks uns
- ich"d ac bo how man't ' con ec- .-
22 could ha leaded por truch.
l m.. i ,.
C. Ucro all the cuatrol reds on ui':a at the ti:aa l.
,q .: the insecatica a.? thc.: Ses:n? - .I l }-
1 7
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G Could you describe uhit tyce of draago might 2 occur to the control rodo,. particularly the chactha, which 3 is wha'.1:r in question in cur ccatention, dua to chipment 4 and handlingi' d P. Helic there are supports within the boxes to S hold them in picco, and there i*s a cover over cach 7 i individual scal, and theco arc accured in p1rcea, 8l t EcNever, if dua to sudden stop3, cudden chifting 9 of equipment on tha truch, thers potentially could be sono 10 shifting uittin the to:e and potential dtmage to enc of the 11 control r:ds. So this vec cr.o of the purpoc43 ef the 12 inspcotion at the cits to encuro that there tran no handling 13l damage or zhipping d:tnage.
14 It would to apparent in looking at the be:cos i i e
? .5 ire.ediately whabhar ths box itself had baoa damaged during 16 shipment.
17 G Our cc,ntention epocificcily regcrds thic I
70 thickness of tha cheath, and n gced bit of the tcctimony !
I i
19 involves tha ccecouremtnte of that. Uould that thicknecs ,
zo[ have besn affacted by shipping demago? j l' !
21 ! 3. G71tnces 1once? .nnything liko that is possibic.
l,)
p.g C. It's poccibis c beced en tho way in which tha t
J p ; control rc6:s nes .c. ..cr.cd inco tho bonaa. To it liholv that a -
o lgg '. thE.4 p,~al*"iC:lla!" piirt c'.5 the cCut.~101 rod !!cuid DG d'.TagGS il qs in ihth par,::m lar acnner?
Z:2 Mh ..: wc.t do ticrl! th3 chca':na, 4
E jwb 2240 t as a result of.' shipping and/or handling, bo damaged such 2 that the c1'enth would bocene thicker, or a high point 3 would appem; at cas point? i, i
4 tu 2:6 ycu're .7.ching for which would b3 most likely, i l-5 [ handling dem.go would be aro likely to cauco prohlma S there than chi.pping d ncJs.
7 G "Hundling," did you any?
3 A. Tha handling wonid have a higher probability of 9 causinj dr :ag.i Y'ar s:Tilping would. l l
10 G '2ho handling y::n refer to, in thet from mcving I
11 it froa the br:cs? !
i 12 A. 'fhst's corrout.
is Q. an1 muld that handling in come way cause those l i
I.
14 cheaths to hacer.3 wider than they ucra at the time they :
. I 15 were pacted? l t
To:3 j 16l l A.
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O. Co 216 you dacerite hew that might ccour? ,
- s ,i Im. Comm?.
- Ycur nonor, we object to this lino 1 .
m > of questiening which calfo fer croculation on tha part of !
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1 20 -
tho witncar., uc No gena c.long with a ocuple of theco ,
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i l Op. !! new thc1r0 SJhing thG witnG01c0 to UFCculat0 hcU d N GGO 8
.l i ps, i Might cccur. :Iara c.'Jain 2 baliwo they shculd ach I h.f:
4,
,y j ' opcci:fic tumd.c a dout uhtt 5id in fcet cacnr, ac : !
6 gi factual nr.t?mt w.n c.:ll.luy Scr cpecul .tica frca I:he 'fitncacoc. -
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1 Th2y hwre already testified ones thit sd.pthing
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. end JtiB-2 4 co-nd happtai not what 6M. ' happen. -
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l 303 2244 I O Did this tjpe of dmange ccour to any c" ti19 control
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1C MS A.CSI::: :: ', . r.at::rring 1o a Toin'- in the .;itipping t
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3-4 2245 1 MR. C0!!NCR: Tha answer to question G i>3 ca page
- (n 2 2 of the prepared t2.stimony.
3 MS . KC SI?.: I'a tr. vin ~s to debarrain. if thele 4 rr.atters of dir.enttional va::!ntions ocorrred :.s c. c. r,.:o'.tl e o f U handling.
6 M2 Coth?CT. : 'M wi' no 10 hne alrr ?.dy f:al1 they don' b ,
1 7 l knou ?.ow it .is. taned . .
It ::.0 foand en innpe~-icn. Ai.k'.no.
G, theaa cama gunstions evor.ui. over cgsin i.s 1.ard17 y;;cductiva,
., i CHEIRMU BETO. .WR: I think th it cbjection ua p3 . Will overrulo 0.':0 thing ' Stat I s.te 10 thtt Maro r.ay be .
t j1 j 12 that had si.r.4 f0::n of d2ic.ago, at le. cat sir. - nc re.-iccted .
I t
- p). . and six ctoura hcd tr.inor 'nria tions, and ks Lord.% case.s to he i
.J.
d.
!explorind the.t o '.I.ttla bit, and-I'd liho te kn.;a.i tha
.4 l{ an n wa r tu".3 in .
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g3 'Ditnava Ponet ) *ihich ES : ::
, >en refor:;ing tc?
eas,. o sha ur.c:a to-t.incu;c adich I ru lize y2u I l
.n N. didn ' t p tic.p :tre.:, but .1.t n a n::cte.d 8.a thers cs 4 I Ea loching '
i a-' a Uhc. .:.c - - .itated that the initial incpontion
}n t it
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, , . !bOport a - I 11 f f.p t tuo p .g'a f o r yo t'. ,
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2246 3-5 I MS. KOSIH: All right, I'll finiah it.
n u ..n B ,.,. Z,6 . . n u .,.: .w.
- 7. ., .
3 Q In the test:ieany submitted by cr s ic.nC rogar ding 4 control reds. on ango 4, in says in the i n i .p.. ! citing 5 inspection condt.cted be net.cter Cont::alc. Incorporat.;d.
6 of tha 137 contrel rede, 86 did n.St pecs .;h e 0.200 7 thickneus ca. elope ganga, .:nd ynu ju.s'c statcc that two of 8 thoce control roda ucra damaged in that manner in handling ,
9 ;!and I'm askir.q if that 2 cut af thase 85 --
1 10 Ma, CON:;CR: Obje :3 ion, your Honor, chat 11 question nivec tuo ince.uiecent prauises. The ,tection 72 wa s -- the anstor M. thw q u ?. c t i o :t w a ., t's.' e :In r a danu ged 13 in this manncr i n ' o.s p :,n c e to her previcuc J.uection 1
14 ' (as to the manncr 10. tr i c h v.h 3 darm.go or h .: .'. ir ..
- i c a n '.
l 13 ' variationc tere theugh- to occur, i.
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...,.1,.,.., ,o .,. o.
17 S '3 were c'.am a g e d in this a '. + 2 2- n 't .' thare ia no ucider.co
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to i I, prc'olam or we.;2 dan 3ged in th c. t r'.a nu c : . Jb a .:pr. :- tion .i n 2G incoheronP. u thc.t r e a p r.:" and the re f or eo b j a c t.4.or.able .
Ti cert:. inly is not cuppo::tod by ...? c c. c o r d ,
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3-6 2247 1 C:iM.RMIW EECliUOE?ER: I was going to do that, 2 too. I think tito cirjection i s well taken , but I i:hink 3 what you c.re d.iving at is legitimate, se tch a dca:t you 4 rephrase it? I thiah yoi uu trying te set -ch a t buc 5 represente in terme of ti.e totality, so I think :nat ' s G legitimate.
B .7 . u. . mn. .>d,s .c .L . ..
8 Q To any o' ycu who hrva th.; c.n c tic. r : ?re you 9 aware that t'le URC :.eadiuony has stated thec GG out of 0 137 control roda did not ps.50 the in!.cial ci :o inspecti.c.o I t as recuired to .2GG chic:. cess ;au'-o test?
gg n m
U, .; .;.. s..a c u.. e, g ...w. e. .,, , 1
.n. -,
. a.. .v. t7.3
- .au...~a .. , . . ..1.sa. ,. s,. .
I 13 0 0 ?.a y . 7tre ja' familiar 'rith c.hese Oi?
.. n
"^ ". ~ * ^Y S"22 " " " ' .!
^ Y3" " ' " 'Y #1 14 1 2##l g 0 Are you in 3<.cacuent .-
lut', 15y. th e.t there L \
a n ,ml rd '; %2 did oc6 pac.<, ii. 2 M :ia . sita 16 I } we e :
I I
i . .. . . t g inapect.:on r'garc1;.c c.a .a'O inch gauss's.
A I h ew. to .:sk th:.it you mean by '- h i c , not pe 3s
.s c.,
the initial 4. n s p e c .- ..o n . T hs 7:a cre a number ci' .c athed s I p'_'. !
I i
e .
3-d '051 0 t. .l i' S '. . 20Ch0C. t C.
u .~. G.G in . 1.1. M O ^. C D *On . J5 nGOC, d
21 4h it did not PAG 3. T A' '.1 ; e .ic :s 36 of those.
I
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.s g sg n
- u- ,.c... n.. z.
,-. 1sut .
.v. 4.1..
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e 4
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3
'3-7 2248 1 licu , the two that were damcged that received
.s 2 damager relating to the thickness 'ti ch you atated 3 resulted f o.it handling, ucra thace two cut c thuse 86?
4 A E.:cuso mc. .'o u .5:e rephrasing my 4.ncrer aga.in.
5 You were aski.ng crigint..'.ly a'cout the dont cype damage.
6 11ow there ue 3 two cf thsu mit of the 85 id. v. t had a dent 7 type of a dunaga on the edge of the ving, o Q Nonld th i.c d'an t which . believe you . stated g resultad fron hand. ling, have caused. these pe.rti.cular rodu 10 to not pcas he .230 incil chi;kne:s tost?
.l a
A Yes.
12 Q N.3w how did the remainder of theac GG get g damaged? ,
M ' '. . C O Ul!O R : 1 Nj9Ct t o t h 3. ti. CfU a a !".i o n , I 'C ' S l'I #
a micotate.:r.on t of tne c i.a.M c tastin.snv,'crd certain1. --
15 - -
16 ther8'S no S NintinOG i '.1 tUC S t a. f f ' .3 t 0 5 t i2 7.n'I- th e.t nnytiling-
. Ua3 Oar. aged.
ll
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- w. . .r _m. ; ~.uu
. m._ .w. r.< .. <,,,e_, v., a_ ., . . . ..t. , r. u_ ,. , ..,. .
g . _ _ . .
l l
gg think you ha.c to ash n Ecv more quehtions, lack 05
, fcundation, -
0 31 M E' . D S ~t F
_ , Q DOGr CUG Cf fou h0ppOn do knc?! 'Sant Was thG
.~.s- -
) .
.I l l*3 1
~Oroblem Wihh thosa 6? l,
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.t
2249 3-8 1
question supposes a prchlen with OS. The reference 2
apparently in to the Sta.ff's use of 86 in itr te s tin:eny .
3 If Ms. Kosik will c:.auil e. t'r rest of thah '
r a h i r.o n y , 1 i
4 it fully describas the c ;t procedure whici. sho : t than 5
86 did 7.ot meet uhe ini tial par t oi- the tent, but then 6 t when tha test procedure 1 the na::t sta ,L .. c s a r. clie d .. t I .:.h i r i-
/
it's 84 of cham or nore -- L3 did in fact pa.ss the tect 8
at that point.
9 So it's /t r.ischa:.acteri::ation c.F tha re: cord 10 to pursue thia lino of questioning taki:g the Gts.ff's 1 .
testimony out of context.
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.a
- y. 3 ... , u 1.3 with the.t et-:teuent in the ' m '.' ' a t e s b i.'.c n y . -
I'm trying 8
14 to discover .2 :h:. n d a:n. . .m d i d nor cccc:: i n *
'.a c. d l i n c- ., t i
t 15h' i hot it dici cacur, J 16 rtto t, g g y <,
ad.4 .t n. .,.. . . . 4 4 1 .<
,a, ....
e g y<, 7. p. .2s. je,..v. s. 1. g n , s,f y . .-
i.
g 1 ii tes ti:r. oar neys abco. u tely no ::hira- abo u. :. a prc hle:c. , whi:h 1
12
~
is the cont 3..- 01. her riu: stioc o r d.Aariga .
IS . "
f, .ao.....t'.-'s".'.m.'...4'.;~
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/d }' , , . . .
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3-9 2250 ,
1 Whenever possible, --
ve have noticed this ir. the last
,. I i 2 hearing and ac noticed neu when thia happened once --- it 3 took cppro::iantely 3 minutenand 20 seconds. I tiraed it, 4 to have the s tanome..:k tc.chnicne , change 1.he battary,.
5 change the record, ;o h ac:: to find it and fe;acd the 5 questica.
7 Fe are carte. inly not boing critict.1, but it is 3 a problem that we noticed the last hirr c , to I uould reque:'i
- o. in order to spe.ed tn bearing. alor.3 that uhcrever posaibls, 7
10 counsel raphrace the qt.cs tion e rather thcn acking tha yg reporter to do 30.
I 2 I chink i't ..ould save a lo t of ':inc in toto.
g MS. XOSIK: Well, due to all the cbjection 34 and what'c bean stacad in rotuaon, :: uculd roquect that so the reporter rapaat the sItaction.
16
. IJ B CliiIOEFEP. : I .tink t';.e repo.cher canf g get it this : t.n e . I think et: should try, if yoit can - g to rephrase or : sas:- .:ha attestion. - It nialit speed 1, a 1,jthings up n 12htle.
~
s l
i
,0l e.
MS. WCS II'. : .'xceot - if an obiecticn has beer.
I 1
, overruled, i c. a re ; . ..-ding thac. particols.: quastica. if u.1 .
i i rrpixasal,
' 2 lI raphraGe i'. he cr. F.a :t ig' h t ; sic c t ^. c ~
- r. h .3 i
W p
. u .. ana 4*. *% F * -%- 9 g.
, ,, . i u . . .- %g 3 $ ?. $. , o w... m.Ou+ *r"r..-.7,w:
.ct .
n'% g. I :., . .
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,9 ai .
i 9.z 8s.
the OSpOrt9r 007 FG hMC-- b f. h nO r..ta '.1 - 5f - ~
OM ff .2 .'t .-
h.s I.
Ophrf.3e l i. . 417 F ?' .-*... *. 7.! 3, .
9 5 I't; .
0
I i
2251 3-10 I (The recc.rd uns read as requested..' I I
e
\ *
~ ..v LO a~ ~.u :
.u .d < .o. 1 3 O dis yo u h .> n - the question?
4 I, (WLtnesa 9ence) 'le s , I heard 1.h2 question. ;
O GRyv. in cha .!5 t:ere not daraaged : he fact 0 that they did noi paca .ha thickness swue - a en inherant 7 characteria ic in :h: 6 mign . hare. th9 out'i.J.e shaath 8 is a nornally wi.vy con.i:. tion, and th.c -
f-2. c t- .:ba t it d oc --
not pass the initial inupceti.on '. cec not r.. tan that anythir g 9
10 h a s b e e n 6. a r.c.g e d ,
,,.,..u. .,.... .x. .a .a.1. , . ,. e. ..-
.u. . a. n ,, _. .s ,. 1.
m2 u. . . .. .; .. .s.
.n 11 .e4.
. e_ .. .- t which e.ami.m cion to eco whether there .: a ll is c.n y 12 13 damage to the contrci rsu,.
M , 9 D tl.c .200 bhickness envi.t. ope gauge tesh
.. .,. e ,
e.c : , . .w. . ,., ~ s .na --2. u .u, .,. , - . .
15
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3-11 '2252 1 tho sheath ch mye shape during shipment?
1 2 A. '2h2t is a possibility.
3 0 I thought yet ste.tsd that this zypa Of -- I'll' 4 call it dawngu. docon't occur in c* tipping, it only occurs 5 possibi.v. in handling, O A A:. that point I tral tali:ing about c dent, cad 7 also talking about postulated damage to the centrol rod.
8 Q Would a cheath, as part c1' the quality cont::cl g procedure at the menufacturiugi plant, pass the .200 inch to thickness tor,t- and then an a result of shipping end 1s handling, non pacs it when it got to the site?
12 ^ 'YC3' G Ohny, Hoy sculd that occur?
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15 1 that tuice, ncy, Thct'a W cairea lins of'quhaticaing che l' 1G started off with lact tilw.
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So it is very probable that you will not be abic to pass 2 the . 280 thickness over n tring when you did it at the 3 shop and then when you d5.0 it at the site. That does 4 no t mean specifically thn.t - at that point in *ine there t
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QUALIFICATIONS RICHARD KANANEN QUALITY CONTROL SUPERVISOR REACTOR CONTROLS, INC.
My name is Richard Kananen. I am employed by Reactor Controls, Inc. as a Quality Control Supervisor. My business address is Wm. H. Zimmer Nuclear Power Station, Moscow, Ohio 45153.
I attended Bemidji State College in Bemidji, Minnesota from 1967 to 1968. In 1969, I studied at the Naval Nuclear Power School, Bainbridge, Maryland and in 1970 I was at the Naval Nuclear Prototype, Windsor Locks, Connecticut.
. I have successfully completed the following courses:
(1) General Dynamics Programmed Instruction course concerning penetrant testing - 1974.
(2) Basic Non-Destructive Examination course at the Thames Valley Technical College - 1975.
(3) Krautkramer-Branson Basic Ultrasonic and Ultrasonic Weld Inspection Schools - 1975.
(4) Weld Radiography and Film Interpretation
- (Reactor Controls Inc.) - 1976. ,
(5) Ultrasonic Inspection of CRD Housing to Stub Tube Welds (Reactor Controls, Inc.) - 1976 .
I have had approximately nine years of nuclear power plant experience which includes four years of operation, main-tenance, and testing of naval nuclear propulsion plants, two years of quality control for commercial nuclear power plant O
construction and maintenance at General Electric, and three years of quality control for nuclear power plant construction at Reactor Controls, Inc.
My certifications include, in 1975 - Level I UT SNT-TC-1A, and in 1976 - Level II PT, VT, UT. (limited to "C" scan method used by RCI) and RT (limited to film interpretation) .
9
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davidl2 f l 4 I don't rumen62r specifically what timy were 2 doing.. I - I don'r. underettad whs.t - tch.'.n you'd like 3 .!, to hucri, i b 3 J-(3 l'l i
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JWBeach 2267 45 fois So thcy wore psxt of the training progran that G
david-4 1 -
2 you were also a part of?
3 A That's a fach.
4 G During ths~ actual incpection, after you had been 5 I trained to de such an in:]:: action, whah rolo did you play in
^ '
c this inspsenion? -
i 7 A. Z inspect:ed neu.o of tha centrol red .
8 0 U w when you say you inspcoted "cccc of the g contrcl redn," does that rc.can that you used thic Onvelope to guago? Did you pcas thic guage over those control rods g I.
that you inspanted?
11 -.
1.,.,
A Tha mjo::ity of tha tino the guages usre handled t, s i I
by the mill. mights. i 13 ,
g4 MR. DREEC2: Sir. Chairman escuse Rt. I don't t'
think that ur.c a full answer to that questione for the 15 ,
record. Part of tl2a question nas: Did he handle the l o,.
' I guages himcalf, and 90 didn't get a "yes" or "no" on that.
,7 UI9 MEES E!Ali2N: Y0s, I handled tho guagea ,
10 .
g myself. But like I said, tha majority of the timo, the q 20 E' * ** *U
- 0" U* "*" *b* *
- i li millurightc. I uond then en occanion to go back and rechock n1 21 #
certain creas mycoif. j 22 i LY MS , 203 5i:
23 ,f s
s !
O Ghay, are yea ;r:cting that you es a quality l
,b.; -),
h control po:ewa did nei de the actual tecting by maans of -
25 d u
n .
e j
6 3
5-2 jwb 2268 1 these guagec?
2 2. (Witnesc Rananan) 13ccance of union rules on tho 3 job site, vs weren't rtilcuad -- that was censidered their 4 work. So stat ne would do, what the inspector's function 5 was, was to folicw them alc.ng the blado, tTcan thoy 6 encountered en area of ro31stanco, the incpscher would 7 investigate that area.
8 G Cn how many of the control reds did you actually 9 use the gung 2 to manctro tie wingc?
10 A. I 6en't renefcar, offhand.
I i
11 0 Dic ycu do anf at all?
12 E YGO-0 as the initial inspection? or ca chackin.; cfter 13l 14 a problem was found? I l
15 A Ecth.
i jg G As part of thiu incycetion precasa r thca, is it
- 7 truo that the millurights actuc2.ly handled the gnagec in gg terms of perfecming the incpection?
gg A Yoc.
l 20 MR. CCIR!2R: Ycur Honor, that quaction has bacn !
,1 asked over and over again. !
g MS. KOSIR: I holisva a totally cont.adictorf j g answer was giv3n by One of the other pcnal uitteccac and j 3, I'm trying to bring hhis cut. i
~<l.
i C!E '.PJi'GT 3FCHECZ73R: ': holicve that'a corrcct.
- ,, , ll il.
7 5-3 jwb 2269 1 Objection ovveruled,
<~
2 31.. . BREICCP.: Mr. Chairman, at thin tine I would 3 lika to auk thers we're scing uith all thia -- or I'd like 4 the Board to ask uhsro we'ra' going uith all thic. W ye I
l 5 got the dira:n: tastimony cf the staff particciarly, the j
6 applicant, alco, which acceribo.3 that happanod in the ,
7 inspection, how many blades ucra found cut of conformanco, 1
8 what was done with these. and so on. }
9 We've got the man en the stand uho vac precent ,
t 10 during so::c of it, bnt some of those, what I thought varc 11 just proliminary background details,. ccem to havo taken 12 <
over thb who'.c crocs-c:cminat.icn. And I undarctand 13 counsol's antitled to develop that crocs-a:: amination, and i 14 , I don't nun to jump in too econ, but I think nce ic the i
15 point to inquire where all this is goin.,. i 16 CD.IPl@di EECIrdOE23R: Could you rcupor.d? I l
17 , Ms. ECSIK: Cn: Contention 15 deals with the j
.,l 18 thicknocc. pn=timilarly,, of the control redu, and whether ;
i i
le 1 in fact those cuatrcl roda should have paccod tho inspection i
2.0 tests that t! a tactimony 2'rca the staff and ths cpplicanta l 21 are stating uhat it did panc. .
P 22:j insther or not these control reds properly ;
I :
i 23 ' pag 3ad dspan65: cn uhethar or I.ch t~ae quality control 2.; '. 1 .
procoduras, b;th at kno rcntxacuuring cito cud at Sho .
23 ]t, cim.2 site. warn t.rc9er?.y pardo:m.co.
6 f
C _ _ _ _ _ _
/ .
5-4 jub 2270
+.
1 And my goesticas specifically are dealing with
\ 2. the quality control proceduros -- namely, the inspection at
~
3 the Zimmar sita -- and who performed theco.
/
4 MR. COI.MUR: Yo'2r Honor, wo then object to thic 5 entire line of quenSioning, which is eccentially: Wera G scme of the inborara actually parforning c m of the ucrk?
y is really all that's :2cin.y brenght out at this point. It i a has nothing to do with,the specificationa or S.cu they are g i met. It han to do with uno held the instrc. cat, and how 10 : long? And that has absolutely nothing to do uith what
. I {,
y Ms. Kosik said har coutontion involvec. f 12, MS. KOSIK: Mr. Chairman, cur dircet testimony 33 is testimony from a militrright who was one of the named g LI mi11 wrights by cna of the witnesses. Ucw his testimeny in g contradictory to tftat -- to the tostir.ony of the panol.
'6 and cbvioucly, as part of the dacisiom.aking k
t
, process, credibility of witnacces la going to ha in quection.
, ,t i g MR. COUNER: Your Honor, then thin line of l 19 ij questioning in totally improper. Accm.ing that the -- I [
H i g [j guess the gentlenan coated besida Mc. Kocik is Mr. Martin, I il ;
g there'c no competence to his tastinony to datornino in any i
- ?
3 ll way whether -- what the tacu precadura chould be, er j li' !
- when these cpecifientions cro mec, hac actan11y r.o j
- j. #
.q. ji n technical qualificandons, and that has yet to be ds; eloped. j g
,j But tha more fact thab shu thinks that Mr. Martin slight not ,
- t i C
1
)
5-5 jwb 2271 I
agree with the competent engineers has absolutoly nothing 2
to do with allcuing her to pursue a lina cf questioning 3
like this uhich 10 taaninglecc.
4 E . KOST h 111 linc of quSctioning hac to do j 5l with who did what inspec; ion. That'n totally reic7ent to l
- the direct tastir.ony.
7 '4 E . C 01 m E R :
Uhe uitaeso panel he.vo already 8 testified to the nanos o:' the individunic who woro involved, 9 Noir that's all that needs to bc dons. Mr. Eunanen has 10 said that union ruloc rcquired that the millerighta be the 11 ones who do the firch pacc of the guage. Now I don't hncu 12 uhat else is ne0 Sed.
13 I certainly soo n0 point in chewing on this and 14 taking up time, as wa did the last two wenko.
15 ML. DRENER: th. Chairman, if I inight -- cinco I 16 started it - :3 started ':his by having the Ec?.rd ask 17 Ms. Kosik whera che's scing. A3 I undarstand it, che's i t
10 going after cono centradiction .~2chwesn her witnecc's '
19 testimony and the applictr.t's testincny.
20 The advantage of having profiled 61rset testinony [
l 21 is, va a1 ready knaw what the tastimony aays, even if 22 it's technice.11y not in. Thera isn't one single colitary :
1 23 i contradic': ion betwaan It . Ihrtin's testimony and any other i
t l
24 : tactimony, bc.cause Mr. Me.rtin's tocuineny happans to be :
si ;
i.8 h quito limita(. in accpa. ".t gets narsly to the fred that j U !
J 4
. 5-6 jwb 2272 1 cortain blades did not maet the guage. They worO then 2 crated; they wara then uncrated. That fach hau bcan 3 conceded in c11 tectimony.
4 TI.s rnal question is: What is the cignificance 5I of all thic? Nona of Mr. Hardin's tactimony goes to 6 that; ncno of the applicant's tcstincny atter.pted to 7 contradict tt/. Martin's atatment that some of t~r ano --
8 86 in fact ~~ did not mcot the guage.
9 Sc tharo is no contradiction. If thcre is a 10 contradiction, I guess Mc, Kocik cheuld identify what 11 the contradiction is that che has in mind that she's J
I f2 going after. Tha t:o tentimonisa co70 completely different 13 aspects.
14 MS. ROSIK PT::cn I ne.irdiensd the contradiction 15 I
most recently I was'* referring to -- I belicve it was .
'G Mr. Schwierc who ctated '.: hat hhc milit.' rights did not perforat 17 the actual tests; they a:;aisted the quality control people le in perfe.m. ing the tests. The quality centrol pacplo handled i i
19 the guages.
l Maw the centrealiction c: Imply is that Mr. Kananen !
20 l i I
21 stated the ol'posite of that. 3 c Mn. ComEn: 25 the acord pleasc, lot the record i I
23 . . speak for iteolf. Evon if is cays what Ma. Kosih says it i
.I j j g [l says, thch ic net a contundiction. The fact that tha I li. >
eg i lahcrer had L.2ld thG too?. dcEn't mcan that ha uns performing
- i, q ,
v.
r 5-7 jwb' 2273 1 the test. The tsat was te see heu it was dono, and cha 2 hasn't oven talked about tio b2 lance of the test, the use of 1
3 the micromotor and so forth. Thay'ra trying to ca tablish, j 4 I think, the falco premian that the culy thing that was ever 5 done was wi::h the firot gaaga that is uced in the ' test, and 6 that is si:cply not consictant with anybcuy's tostimony, and 7 it is actually a uncto of overybcSy'c time.
8 (Board conferring.)
s CELIPMAN IGCH20HER: I think for the timo boing to Ms. Kocih mcy continua. At scue point, yon'll have to start 11 bringing out ::cntradictiono, cud that type of thing.
12 We do thirlc that the training, or ths fact that 13 Mr. Martin tra':t through scle of the training, coruld very well
{
14 bo relevant to his e::pertice, and the fact that he wcc or 15 wasn't in thiu uc1hthrougl.1 and e:hjcet to sedo of tho =ca ;
16 training thct Mr. Kananca . ras cuhjact to m2y wall be 17 rolevemt. ;
16 MR. 33EmT2R: IIr. Chairman, I bog you respectfully jg to keep in mind what tic're talking about. We're talking ;
i 20 about placing a guage in the chape of a t'ning fork over the 1
21 blade. I st$r:it that you do not need the world's greatest i !
n e:cpartico to be able to 60 it. l
}
<.a
, MR. CCmiER P; vill .7tipulato that ev0n a lawt/er
- i
)
y might be chlo to uso ano ci' th as guages withenu any j i
g ! particular trachle.
i !
l-r
5-8 jwb 2274 1 (Laughtor.)
2 MR. P1VDIMER: I don't kno.? if I'd go that far.
3 (Taaughtor. )
4 CHAIRMIM EECHi!CZFER: Well, presuzably ycu will 5 be gotting into idiat happens rfter ccasthing dosan'u pass, 3 and that type of ':hing, which is eventualf.y uhore. uc're t
7 going.
8 ME. T.131TdER: Lut that's not uhat che's asking, 9 you coo. I egrca.
10 CEATI'"AII EEC5H03FER: That'c what we have to get 11 to. But I wouM sin for that.
12 Wha:. ce're trying to find cut is whether the rods
' ,3 th.it were finally necepted woro preparly acco;;, tad, so that IT thi.s ic where us cught to be going.
15 B'l MS. KOSIK: !
l !
3 16 - 0 01:ay, so as I understand ih, it's bcen stated 17 i thrt tha mi!.lurights par:.'ct.n tha testa, and the quality l
18 ,
centrol personnel stood by and watched. Ic that a correct >
il .
19 i
ascas =cnt?
20 A. (Witncoc Ocntnan) lio, that'a not a cer:2ct 21 i ascessment.
l 22 ' G Could you citrif;r er correct it?
' -l 23 l n, The millurightc neved the guagas. '2hoy did the i
p,4 physical moving of the gnc.gec chon thay en:cuntored a high p,g ,
spot. The qtality acnt: 31 inopschcr did irricetigate 8..hs l, l
'i .
A
5-9 jwb 2275 1 high apots and documented the resulte.
I 2 0 Okcy. In overy inctanco where a mill.ntight 1
t 3 cncountered a high opot, wie a cuality control person ecllad 4 over to investigato it?
5 ,
A Ec wec in the area. There was lih four control 8 i
O rods laid out at once, cnd ha uns part of the tsen. 'Eco t
7 l team was cer. posed of liko two millwrights wr.rking togethar, 8 cr three, or howcvar many ucre chare, and the ono quality 9 control inopa:stor. So, ys.3, ha t;as there with than to 10 investigate thosc. arosa of concern.
11 G Okay, he was thora. But did ha, in fact, 12 whenever at any time this guaga encountered a high spot, 13 uas tha quali.:y control -- a quality control parsen enlled j I
14 'l over to invochigate that particular high spot? l 15 A I .an't say in every case that he'wculd -- in 16 t i most cacss, h3 woul<2n't havo to be " called," becauce he'n i i
I
.' i 17 ' right thexa.
18 i G 7. don' t iman -- !
! i l' !'
10 A It's pessible that ho might of -- there might l
i 20 hava been timoc when he would have baan on tha other side, -
21 bl and the millicight uculd hava anid, "cculd you plcaso coms l 1
over here and look at thic?"
22 That's a possibilitf. .
n ; 0 'Ohc quality centrol pcraon then did icok at
,t
,g ll every high crot that :130 cacer.nterod?
F
.. v, l i n. 7c 1, .ncry area th e wac censidernd rejectabla 1-t
2276 5-10 jwb I by the millurights. Or if the gungo did not pass a point, 2 it was the quality control inopector's function to 3 investigate tho'high spot.
4 I renlica it vc3 his function. I'm ccking ycu, G
5 as one of the peoplo who ucre thora, did 'jo.t go over and 6 check cvory high cpot --
7 A ;cs.
8 g -. that wr.a encountered?
3 A Yes.
10 g ,7uct appreximately how many high spoto acro 11 encountered during thin inspection prccess?
12 A I didn't hoep track of the numbor.
13 G 0335j , so ycu hava no idca at all. Is that 14 correct?
15 A No, not off the top of my head I' don't have 16 a number for you 17 (? aura.)
78 G I3 thero any tray, in the noving cf thesco 1 19 guagcc cver the ccatrol rad, that a high spot wed.a have 20 been micoed by a millwright?
21 A Ubat do you mean by "high spot"?
'I2 I g V!a've been Mihing about high upoto, ycu kncu, the past fcv qucchicac, and ycu've answered my qucations.
25g i:11, wh t do you mean by "high cpot"? l 2(' A l
l g :: nemt a spo': whc: o the thic1cisco c::cceds .230 l as N, ,
s
5-11 jwb 2277 1 inches.
2 L It's impccaible for thi::s to have cicasd any 3 point that t culd not phycicall:t paca tho guage, because 4 they would have had to lift tha guage off and nova it to 5 another area.
s.WB and 65 6 (Panco.)
er fols 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 I 17 -
18 19 20 i,
21 22 23 4
ok '
t I !
- s !,i r .
I !
cr 2278 6 *' 1 Q In passing the gauge over the cont.';ol rod, 2 are yct. sta. ting that the mi.~>.luright would have lifted up 3 off the blad. aid then put it i:ack on beyond that high 4 3pog7 5 3 (;;ig .33 33 3.an,.en) .
Und." what circume,'naces?
6 C ?;..an the gate.c h?.t a high spot.
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8 would not n.c e ovc.: a.pcinu and the quality control 9 inspector vn; c .: . lle d. a ': bh. n time to invectigate that 10 point.
11 Q Then in continuirg boyond thsu point, dit!
12 the gauge L.+.te uo be liftc6 off the blnda, or could itbe s
1;3
'ust slid en b .e. the high ur:ct? .
14 A il 11: you are ns)-:ing :ne to .etane a :ur.tsme n t 15 that would covs:- til sita.ntions. Tl: nre v 3ra acma situc-16 tio'.m ubces .t veul- . o '; 7 .o; ,: cvar the. hieQ ; p., t , co ,
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19 0 Y : u cri ec ntinus v .!aring ,
20 A 2. e r .*e r es r. s c, .s i '.na t io n n w c a.re the g itug e 21 C O u ld 0 4.V i2 j 'Ot th i 1'S CCi.ld hiAVG hE!0n On ar')E O .'d 1
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6 -- 2 2279 ar 1 The tescimony states that on pace 1, leading 2 into 2, si:: con.;rol rcFa did not meet the inapaction 3 criteria. Lat was wrong with these contrcl rods that 4 caused them act to r..eet the incnection critoria?
5 A (~71tncac Ponca) ?irst af all, .c hava to ash G which si:t er you referrint; tof the ener that wora 7 accepted or che ones that mra rej2ct2d and cent back to a the shop?
9 C The ones that wera / ejected and sent back to 10 t h e c h o r.) .
It A T':ere wan one that did not pass the .250 12 dimension. There uuro throc that did not parc the laa l straichtners inspection.
There was one that had the bach cc-t, referred te cs the coal, that .00 d a n a g e d. , i 14 15 Then there i.ns one that actually just heJ a damageu g ,
chenth. It .70:.ad '.ihe cn e.r e t had bean gotu;od or tor.1 Q :!w :ho cne that did not acnt the 2Eu 37 i
gg I' test, was t h:c.t ,;ur: re j a c to c. righc thou anc! ~hore, or 19 uan m furn-r tuting donc to ib?
A T: at ana wac rai.act2d right thc: tocause it
.O s.
l hunschviour. :hnt it had be o r. hit with somothina, -
c.1 22 O N r. ' -ha se p r c :a l m s w i t h t h e sia could ther cccur 6urr.;. e- w. i d .l.' r.c- ? I 23
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such that th2y night ha,.*e occurred during handling?
2 A y e is poggi p l.3,,
3 Q Aid uhese six wmze then replacad; is that 4 correct?
5 A C .) r r a c t .
6 Q U..en dic thezs replacements arrivc?
7 A (:itnesa Borgman) I don't know the exact 8 date. There was still cono time tc, get the shipment 9 together at Wilitington. "?hc dates ~~ within a short to period. of tine.
11 0 O t a.". . Ar d who inapect2d thonc replacemente 12 when they arrivad?
13 A Roactor Con trolc .
14 0 Wu that the came people involved in the i
15 inspection originully, er was it differe$t parconnel?
16 A 5.: .m e cualit- control people, 17 _Q O L a y., Do you kncu whether it wr.s tha same 18 millurighes?
r 19 A ('li tna 2 a Kan:.u'.en ) I don't r nacher at this -
2.0 I don ' t r ?me nho:- t' r e d a::2s that the rsplacaments vera
,qt inupactori, 23 7 don' t ::c. r.om':cr of fhand whether it was
- 22 the same nill.tmight:. , t o o ,. cr not.
}
,q3 C U rc- you invoire. ir tha'c it.ap t otion ?
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OrG-4 2281 1 O In jc ur ':e s t i_ mony , it states that six other 2 control rod 2 had minor diinencional variations, 3 ?irst of all, I'd like a clarification that 4 these arc the same sin that are referred to in the 3RC 5 testimony on page 4. Weald any of you know that? That's G at the bottor; of paga 4 f A (Witness Ponce) Where it talks about the 8 remaining ci>. contrcl rods are accepted by the licencoa?
9 0 Yes.
10 A That is the additional six control rods.
g3 0 or these dimencional variations, could you 12 briefly describe then?
13 A All cf tilase u re 1 calized high speta that 14 original!.y did not ncet the ,200 dimension.
15 0 And do vou happen to know what'cauced those 16 control roda act maating tho e280 thickness test?
g A Nnt i. n all e n:3 0 s . One cf them had obvi.ously 10 been hit slightly 'y conething. You could not tall 99 what it was.
20 Sem of in trar jus the normal sheath wavinass g condition. I think : hat's abcut the only thing I g can characteria?.
,, Q U c <.7 , thoc 12' .3tatcd in the bestimory that l yj ;
an eng.tneeriri . .clycit; wa ..; r.:a d e <> f the;e s i:: , eha t 9 6 A
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2282 ar6-5 1
A T~is n consisted nainly of a review of uhere 2 the high upohn ucre locatod, what the ordar of magnitude 3 of the deviation x;c, and the flexibility thet existed 4 in uho sheath in th :. t area, 5 Q E.ro any further tests po:: formed for purpocas G of this analynir?
7 A Mic.t kind of testing are ycu referring to?
8 Q Well, any kind of testing of those particular g control rods as part of the engineering analysic.
10 A There was an 1dditional inspaction that was 99 made. Is that what you cc11 testing?
12 O it could be.. Was that inapection with the gauca 0: wi ti' the micror,leter or what?
13 A It w s donc vith micrometers. It was also 94
"# " *"' "#E' "*
15 16 Q Oksv, the cla.np additionally vas used ac part of that'.
i_s A Yes.
10 g CEAIE:U.H BECIIIICE' J ru Mr.'Kocik, at soma point l{
we would 11::(. to taha a 3rcar:, when von reach a 20 -
g convenient breaking point in 2 7ur (10 . X0SIE: Ohay, Ua could otep my tim.e you wsnt t:, h 23 i i
24, l CI 't Ill.l?a?' E CTIS O l'F 3 G , O k a'/ , Id%' d C :) ' t Wa [
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2283 3 david 1 CEAIPIDR BECHIiOEFER: I guess we'rc ready to w;wid1 2 resumo.
takr 7 3 Coatinua.
4 BY I45, ROSIK:
5 Q Olay . I beliwa it was stated ibat as a part 6 of thic engiacering analysis, clamps vara cpp'ied i to those 7 six contro'. :ods; is that correct?
O A That'c correct.
9 Q Ar.d who put those clarps on?
10 A Ycu mean the nemar of the pa.ople?
tt 0 Well, what were their roles? Uure they tha 12 millwrightc, or was it On -- the eng c.eera '.,ho parfc- mad 13 the enginaari.ng anal.rsic?
14 A (Witnesc :::manea) Chay, the neacter control.s quality control insp-2ctc: was in chargu of Icinspecting 10 those control rods, 17 Q W.1 that after h alnzpa vere put on?
gg A Th2 cla:np -- che puttingon of the cic.rc> wnc part gg of tha inspunicn.
20 G Okay. Now, the;c ci:: were inspectade and th'ay 21 were found to ht.ve -- de act meet the specificabior.s and a then at that point ia tir.a warc- clampo pnt on?
23 A (Wif.r.es:a P:mco) It 's a li::ta bit ; irloading y here, Cha c..arce it: . p.:r'; cl iie r.igular 'nc,:ca.:. .,
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2284 1 A So it was uss-l -- the clamp vas used cn the e
2, other 86 a:'.co as ,,211 as the six that were rein.spectad.
a 0 L en the cic:2. - us: initially puu en the cin as 4j part of tha . initici in;;oction, did they mau.su:;e the .2GO
.) inches?
l g A TPat -littunica was maasurcd ,ycs. An?.i.ht.t was .
ina,.,.v. e . n. i as .
cno poLnn ar. t:cLc . c a'.a, not crr..
7 g Q Did they originally :o': pana? I~, that what you scic? i 9 1 n !
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g 0 ce;uld you -- could you e17. lain hev thcs b si::
12 d cred Er w t'~.aac ath.v- G E? 1m o Litt.Lc u.mlaar ou g that.
g F. . C MH:Er.: Objection, y:1r; :{onor. We'v3 been tallting -- re 've go:. t.m groups of ei:: hera included in
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2285 d;vid3 1 WITNESS PENCE: Let ne clarify that a little bit.
e 2 There was 82 of thote 3d originally passed tha inapuction 3 using the no::t <tcp in tNc procedure of using the clarp.
/ \
4 There were rix : hat did r.ct.
5 Br M3,KOSIK:
S Q 0 cy. Now that totala 83.
7 A I:r. sarry, I c;uess I was reading the wrong 0 numbera he.ru in ,the tiRC docuneah, 9 (z. aua 3. )
10 I T. carry. I :cok tha number out of conte::t.
21 (I'M3 2. )
12 ., I:m gainy to us.ko e <::)rraction on thai , Cf the 13 total 55, t' ara usre 80 c.f them thni: -- that pcssc6 the
}4 incpection rain; the clair.p techniquo and si:: thtt did nou.
15 0 OkaF< 317 did rot 9aas using tho 'c1: cap technique.
16 '~YcE I 'thou.:"st you .tero scying that then thana ci:: ucre 17 abjected & tM clur.p tecir.ique and then they did pass.
16 A 'r at':2 uhen the chr.ntra was mcde. Theso ere gg written up en .dnt in rc:'ertred to as a field deniction g requect, ani'. th.2ra rec a r.' edification me.de after an 21 engine ring atuiy 40 the crigin:.1 in3pacticn preceduros.
g C Sr, tn.8.s .reca:3 wi.s such that after thoy found that the u .1:: lid net ac2t I a apeicifications,. ch.=y 23
,M changet -d.) s??.cifiJctions ic thn': correct?
i
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2286 d vid4 1 Q L ia 2t y:ur ir terpr.'.tation?
c 2 A 'u 7a' dor,cnly x2ter a ratho:: detail 2d 3 examinatio:t an.1 chscsite aC ; hat kin 1 of devictionc 4 existed.
S O se chnn nhsua i:: mientually uud r the fioid 6 devint.'.on .:U qporitia t rce.ucci did pr:c withan . :CJ.rther 7 cc.o di fic. u'u.4. ..'- . ' .o.. .- %. ..'.*- --
'.o t.'1 +- .e.av,m .*> '
O A Cc: ract.
I o ME. II:mCR: I.:r
. cm.t.r. man, I'm afraid an 10 arroneous nr' bur has crcr.".El 'p in here ::hich neither the I
11 staff's te;ti.i. tony no Mr Pcuce's ancecors todcy '7ould support.
S u,,c.enly wa , ; e c. a . .n.lga cout 3:.: corcro.L., rods u .r.f ..nsre 12 .
F P
1.3 were ai. tim 1 d!.6 not par..5 an2 cr the ot.hcr of the;;c i
14 tuo gauge toltu.
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16 tactim", nich ~~ I alie;c !,a. l'.ccik uns 1: sing at t:ne point, 17 * * ' 'M GOhN5CE O3 t Y 'N *\AL*O Cad CE th'2 W^*C * ?
10 the gauga i:.1. na z.cco dia: te out: tc;ti..ony. icur ft.iled the .
gg Dceing .3M nat., nn3 cnu Yr.iWi the .280 test I
20 Yl:a nin caf acted roda - uhich f.0 act ap; car at '
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2297 david 5 1 WITNESS PENCE: May I make one clarification r
2 on that?
3 TI 3ro see a cctgle of casa: -- I don't Enc; the 4 specific darai13 cn thic - uhore a given :cd ticuld not pass S one gauge in em a location c.nd would not pr.es c different 6 gauge in c.t12ftrent loce.-tico .
~
7 Sc yo .1 ati. have a slight contradiction, depending S cn which gaCT3 'fo -'re ca.~. king c. bout.
.iu 9 ,,,,. ..s.:..:. a:
10 0 Dtas that relate tc those si:: that we're talhing 11 about?
12 A I thi sh wn'd havn to do sc.na resor.rch into the 12 doctm.:nts hs fo3:a I could :.mhe a ral gced statww.nt on thal:.
14 (Encsa.)
15 0 UNs T 3N3 Y' au're familiar aith :he direct 16 testimany that vtas pream.ccf. by -- it hacu't - it'c not i
17 in the recor5 yet, but :.t war s imitted on .:shclf or '
gg Mr. Mic: tan :.agardinr se:'.) recrating of the conhzol reds.
~
i!c.an air!. I.his recrating take placo?
10 >
L (;!itnane 5: ann:t-:.n.' Am I ausumia g 2 hat y:n'ra 20 talhi:.g uhout the ~ acrching tha:: wcc donc uftar the first inapection rhon the rodo were sat acida to Se riinogected p- .i...'.o.
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I 2288 david 6 1 J. It was dor.e c.?ter the oric.inal insm. : tion. .
2 Q T'.at original inapoction, did that include 3 clamping?
4 A In most cr.sec it didn't.
5 0 Se, is it tnu ,dmu .-d2 2n th. origi:nl im:pection 6 which wan dc,no only with the gauge when it revee, led that 7 the thickna:s we.9 grear.u. than .230 inch 2a, the con 9:o.- ro].
8 was then recrated?
9 A Il-. some c: sea !.t w c set acido yes It we.
10 what you'ra cd11.' n.; "rc ;r tad " tes. , -
11 O Mell by recr.r> d, elid they achu:1.ly pach them 12 back up?
13 A. T1.2y put then ha9 in ':hn origins.1 5 hipping 14 containers.
15 0 W.r mat r .trp<.v.e?
g A Ch:7 m e .t.eing -- I 3.irondy to::tific.6 for id:P.t 7 '3 Cr~.:0 S 3 .
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$g h T(. be rainspanted at 2 1 ster tina. TIMy 3:are ---
g they .ero r.t aside tc ba lcck:v2 ct to 'ca inv.ctiije. tad 93 ..e W,. 3. 10 3.
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2289 david 7 1 MR. CONNEF.: Objection, your Honor. The uitness 4 2 has testified why they uitre recrated. W2 witness -- the 3 interrogator i:2 trying to make him speculate. It's e
4 irrelevant in any event.
5 (Eocra confir: u.g.)
6: C.mImtAu IGCHIFMER: I think tha quattion wts 7 answerad actuclly bnfera; ho did testify Wy hr.: racrched 8 then, so I think 'ho c que tion -- I think he's anmeered it.
9 MS. KOSIn: Chay.
10 C'!AIRMTdi LECIUiOEFER: the objection is sustained.
I1 Br !!S. ICCSIK:
12 O At the tiuic that they uore recrated, had -- vas 13 the clampin; proccdure k'.ov'. to the quality Litifdl p.2cple 14 who wore superviciwJ the inrpection?
15 A YCC-gg d But these wora recretad befero Scing c1'.c.;ed?
17 A T & n't m e ar in all casec whnt the -- lika gg I said, acne cf the:. h d bacn clamped. So. c of thern haf.n't.
19 been clamped.
g Q Any cf thoso the.t had already bosn dem?ede wcra 21 they recratod?
22 n Tht.t 's it.%.t 7. vaid.
(t:ounnel ?or into.wanor IO7?p eenf.::7 iner . )
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JWBeach 2291 98 1 g If they hud already been clamped end they vers 2 recrated, what was the circumstance they were recrated 3 at that point.? Was it her:auco they atill didn't pass,
.7 4 even'when they ware clamy.:d?
5 !!. I alrt:ady i:astified to that.
6 MR. CONER: Objostion, your Honor. Tho witness 7 testified ths.y wora put back in the shipping cretas for e later reinspection. Now I don't know why this witness --
9 they kamp at it. I mean, they apparently had a theory from to Mr. Martin's toed::ony that putting them back in a packing 11 box means thct they were auto:tatically going to be sent 12 back to Wilmington, and the witness has already said that 13 isn't so at that point in timo. That's the answer, and 14 there's no use boating on it, so ve object to the continua-l 15 tion of this line.
I 16 CEaIPMAN RE0IICOEFER: I think the objection ic p sustained. ,
^
jg
- BY MS. KOSIK gg G Was the clamping prccess part of the initial i inspection proceduro?
g i
21 E. (Witnoss Pones) Yos. It'2 defined in the g criginal inspection document. -
g 0 And who actually did the cicaping during the y inspection?
o e
f t
8-2 iwb 2292 1 liR. CONNER: Objecticn, your Honor. This ic 2 totally immatorial as to who did put a clamp ca, r.d no 3 forth. I,mean, thern'a no significanco choun to thin, one 4 way or the other. And the wholo c::aminction this morning 5 is primarily 'anned around. thu ncnss of individuals who 6 did or didn't do acmething. Thero'c no matoriality to 7 it. If tharc 10 materialic'I to it, I cuh11t the Board 8 should havo to requira the intervonora to establish thin 9 before centinuing to wante tius en the names of individunla 10 on something d2nt truly doesn't make any differenca 11 anyway.
12 HS. I*OSIK: I'll clarify the qucchion. ~4 hat I 13 meant was, when 2 said " wha" was it, was it a milluright that i 14 did it? Or tr.ta it you yourself ns a quality control person?
15 MR ComiER: May I repeat, it's truly imatorial.
16 (Baard conferring.)
17 CEAIFRAM 2SCHHO2?ER: I. think tha:: ono can bn 18 answered. Tha objection is overrulod on that one.
19 BY MS. 1*0SIK:
l 20 0 Did you do the clamp'.r;? or dH one oi' tha 21 millwrights do the clamping?
2g A. (WIkno30 Kananan) There tiero probably timos 23 when the mill'iright actually put the clamp en. There vera y, other timen w. ten the GC inepcotor put the cla*np on. But l l Sc; ,
the bottem li to is that the tk2 inspector was responsiblo fer I
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'I 0 Yes. .
2 a, no, I we,t not, 3 0 Did yo.i bec r:e mart:- et tirat sit'.J. tion htar on?
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P., Ent' .; cc::re c :. "'u not caully cnra n11.the td:ss l
12 wn.re ov.sn :ca -- I nce.n, ?!.1 i ho control rcC . vxa T.n the.,
13 . tubes yat at that tita.
14 , p. Hou did y..u 99 abt gohting thesa feraign I
t .
15: materia.13 cu . of th c: enrol .'c!.n?
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r f 10 'l G m.uld yo 2 :lind un:ntar.ag the gute icn; .in?.aca !,
6
. I 13 your C00T.531 Chjt.!b12
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1 , CEAIRHAM BECmICI:'.:?2R: Yes. Why don't you specify 1 f
l 2 the part whera the particular question was responded to. f 3 I think thst's a goed idec.
4 NI;. C01E R: I ainapche. I unid that'c in the 5 prepazed testimony. It's in the nnovers to interrogatoriac i f
G that va farni.3ho1 to the inte wenors.
i 1
7 CRIT 1E ECCIECTSE2: That's not part of tha :
I 8 racord. 4 l
t 9 ME. C09:123: 7'o, hat they hnvc the information. I i
10 The general o.zaatica an to what happonud is acazthing that's {
}
11 already baan ,put in their knowladge and has been dancribed. j 12 2G. BRElE R: I gnoas that moann that thG .'
I 13 witnass' legel objecticu teac incorrect, alco. I 14 CEAIR5IAI;I BECEGZF3R: I think that if tho g {
15 !
counsel trante the infor.tation on the record, thic ic abcut i
}
i 16 the only placc che can get it there, i l
- %4 Jaid, if councol metta the infon2ahton on the '
17 t
13 record that vu :Jurnichra to her in answers to intorrega- )
s gg tories -- g- '.
20 MR. UlimTSit: I'm en her sido cn this one. !
21 t CICMm1 32CECE?rn: I didn t underetr.d thut.
22 l The objection ic ovarruled. .
3 NR. CCMER: The e.nswers in tha prcpared .
f.
s, e 1'i tactiment add::ascod caly f:he centontions which hnvo buc.i 9 ,
.;b.
- 4*
addracesa by h 2cu:S. C".tia ic e acttar that et / der.cly ic li
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- 5:
D-9 jwb 2299 1 . of inte'cct to intervenors,. and of course hcd been covered I
2 I in the staff invashi;aticac, 1,ut in is not directly 3 recponsive.
4 t7.. D .,p .r.
. ny.} ,,:. .: vn > O g d 9 s-,.. .. ,%
g : e.. , s.s..., y 3 5 would ash tha.t coun!n1 t::- t.' ash direct questicrm and no,:.
l ..
6 ask jus.t u0: gan arce cq;1: nt:::lons. -
. neun, 0.a '
I? ave not
./. . mace ge:L, pre gre 3 c y a,u. , ane hc pa :u,.ly ve wou. . .ca- :'.. :.
1 i !
C i a scific que ticas w we ;.cic6, 9 MP. . 32E!ECR: nr. Chairman, I .nach c' ira-r: ee t-ith 1
to a small ncrt Of : hat.
M:: . Ccnna.c strated the cteff
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5 11 ! investigatior Oc mrs thir;. At a natur of fcc'.,, a: some 12, coint toGay I was ecing .: n do the point that ncna of the 13 l
i staff's buctimon? go t.:: to hhat speci:!ic matter of the
.i, 14 l foreign materisl and the rind'.ing getting into the holes, a
-e w.. .,. n,s , A. m., :. .:.: u. .t. :. L 1.a; i g.2.. . vonn.v .i_.a:. .s . . o ~
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16 contentr..c n . S. e r .'.ar n s h v I i
i 1*/
a limitad vj saran.:c. par'.m_w by let:ar '?ilsd vith the Boay:.'*: !
4 t
I'm not su're. I, 18 t I 19 I don 't Iracw li ':M 20ard has direc':.cd na to -\
' 4 renpend or nch. In any <rrent dio staff is act p::cpart.d at j 20 j s p,j hhic etags of tha p';ocee H.n- to racpOnd to that particulcr 'l i
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o 3
I 8-10 jwb 2300 i the basis tha t we rhould hold that over for the next phase.
I 2 It's not psr:?catly c.1.sar frcm the way Mr. T!!:nce's 3 ' testic. cay is ctractu;sd. 3v.t J.t may be th?.t scue of hin l
4 '
diccucsion o# tha Japane- experf.anca relates tc thic l 1
5 grindir.7 A: C if th^ t'a 'he case, I would not he propered i
6 !, to ccvtr that at this po:.nt. l
- I C
7 MI . OR!E2: / tairk wa're getti.g screwhero c11 0 j o;cr th; lot hara. I thi.2 the inte~venor's counsel is 9 '
s ta. l.3 t na.. nn. t a co n t 2,,
s .rce 2.n?.pecta.0n and placing u..nem i.
10 4 in ths.i hubes. R:, E.;enner has n cw gone off on hto :frind'ing i t, t 11
! which i.:: acn".7ha *. i nc the :ft.ura fran whe;e v2 chill are I i ,i
. f 12 as to tis po:'.nh. An in .*act, I uncu ' Ao insr,cctorc were i l
i i
' i 13 there and sa. 3010 cI hhia ucrh, Sc I'm act quiio c.nfe i l
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14
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1 We .= loo sculd ao"/s to n'rike Mr. Martin's {
t 19 500tiTc2y 23 not gerKCn3 *.o thio iSSua. ;
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let 's g it it 0 7E fita .c u , raths:: than defer thing ; into ;
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AR 9-1 2301 1 CHAIFMAK 2ECriOEFER: Ucil, I think the Board 2 wculd like to hear testimony concerning these chavings 3 or the chamfo;: that is in the direct testimony of both 4 the Applican. c.rd Mis.mi " alley.,
5 Uo also ':cul like to hear it at this sessica 6 now. We uil: censider 3ntor whether we will leave the 7 record <> pen on this for the Staff :o supplement it.
8 M n . I R E NT.7 5 P.: Mr, Chairnan, if I might, I g understand the iulic.g that you want to hsar it, and I 10 ,J think that's fire,. vith your diacrotion gg Ssme of the racccning that putz1n.s ne a littlei t
12 bity it's kind f.f tr.e tnil sagging the dag. It:a not ,
' ~
j~a the testimon./ that ia suspo.::ed to determins the scope j
. f
- 4 of the acnte.ticns; it
- 3 ths other way around. People put all kar.da c!: th1ng in their tectimony, much of 1 15 .
which la not releve..t at times. j 16 1
4 i
.f s
i-h at cculd bt r.o r.e t r o u:i l e . All I can say- is i i
gg i if you u nt he Staff's view on th.it particular matter.- l.
i 19
! we are not 9: at.. red to ;ivs it at this session.
. i I mishi t.aferm y -u that some aspet:3 ,'
20 ].' (
1 I
21
, relevant to ': hic cr.'.nding is undar e r,me s crutinv.: It i
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I cr2 2302 1 S) uo can report on it in the fall. If you 2 want to go ahene. with tha cther partics' te s ti:r.o ny - th a t ' :
3 fine b".t 15 not c.uive. to cross-examins on thic noint .
4 3 on bahalf cf thr, S S r.f f , 'n.c'au se f rankly it 's a silly s lpacition ': 0 >e ;rc :a--ev.c . tining be fore I know uhat I'm 6 . after.
I'll her2 tr t*='+ %r ?.ay o'ta crperts to tell na J.
i 7 4 that, i:
o a L.
Mi:. C C'd E R : Your IIonor, I would note thab g jthe.Stadf is not .'.nr..cquain utd with what h Eppene.:d here ,
s jo ,as Mr. Drennar IEr .lready indicated. ??e have oc control i t i
11 ver hin ina:.'il:ty to cross-exaninct but I chin.: that l
i .
12 jve should, i .' tia 3 card wants to haar thin, g a t- it over.
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' conten tio.i . c.nd 's':e 90ing- to nove to stri.:e, but we I .
15 -
havu kept the v ;. t n e s a c c h e n , Mr. Pence in perticular, (
i
- 1
. . t
,0 1
Mr. dsn..nen .ro:c. une .. pact t.,.c a s t , xcr two ; t .t. .!. ueens i I
t
,7
!, in ths .Lan : Scz.;;ing. and now thov.'re back today.
We l l
it:
ivant to get this avar, so I:'ther than nt.sne on what Z r 19
,believe cur 1sgrl rights ara. as would ra'her c put this 1
1 1
1.0 j in . We anti ipated, of :surs r this being the In t arve n or 'h hearing, tbac thic ;igh; come up and rather than 9...
etry to,. a .) I s ri . cijec. to this and tche a long v.imo to :
- m- ,
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do thsE b .s ? o: s .h5 ; res '
.v:d, we would li'c+: co ja di re c t.'. .
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2303 ar3 1 by the interrogatcri2s, 2 Secondly: to r.ove it along, I ;;o' tid prefer, 3 with the Ecar.d's indulgance, to ask Mr. Kana.non er Mr.
4 Ponce fir r.t ': 0 e nplui.n o ..e.ct1.y '1 hat happened, b ecause L, l
5 we are pasLing tim 3 wir.h chi.s nev 1 cructura, on uhich ,
s laborer happened to hol hat ;
2) ha70ar.e -1 to tha::e p.irtic i. : cf matericl,
- ~
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i i 9.?.
i li w 3 e x,.,
a
. . . 2. ,_, ., ...: - .:4a' . 4.-m.e. - r to ex.c. lain then whLt ccurred
- l 4
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ar4 2304 I
part in donc, I have no objection as tc describing the ch.r.f e rin g ti:ct uns done, and so forth, eimply to get it 3
in, but it'e a .;otal waste of tims doing chia na 2 0 I
t 4 type of cro c s-c.::cnin ar: an n.o. nroach. 1 E
5 f
- r. R . 3REPH30 I don't have nn_. c'cjcction no
- '*., t that procedtra, providing, a s: I believe ic our right, [
o 7 we racerve the right to
-l
- file any further testimor:y - - d I ,\
o you can cal'. it rebutte.1, if you want - on :his subject !
9 .t = 'c.",a...".
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10 t' t 3c a ro- co n r e- r.4.n g ,, -,
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)
11 j D L, '7ANK'I AU CE R : IIr.s Chairman, it seems i,i
{
i i.
,i 12 "! highly insp; oprinte at thi:: point to consider this s
13a 0 matter, if tw Staff has not even e::amined the question, r
14:Iand I think that wichn.x the benefit of the Stafi's 15 . . app rai e s.1 o f :h s pr obic m , we vill be str$bling around it if 16 1 in the dark Ina I c.h in, the ap-ropriate t ime ..'o uld be t
17 , after unc Stiff ha, exc.r.:inad the problem o'.' tne :ce ISl netal s'uxin g.: :7ith ;.n tt.e control reds,. and at chab j l
i is ' point thn w e c :n consid.ar them in hearings, hat I think l.
20 we may 2 ave ao -
Me ms.ny c u ss tions that cre asked l 21 !.v.ow may be in upprop:-ia te , or the proper qaestions will 22 ! not bc or.ivd1 e.t if uhr. qu.:. scion 3.ar not been 2tudied 1 l 8
i 23 i; by the scar. 1
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- I
Or5 2305 1 of notico. Certainly we are aware of the situation,
- 2 but in terms of offering prepared testimony, I don't 3 belie /e we arc . If ue are, I'm incorrect, cnd I apolcgizu<
4 (;k?ard cende.:^ ring )
5 ML COUNOR: i P. , Chairme.n, wo wculd note that 0 Staff and nott Dr ., Fankhtuser seems to put the burdon er r
yI positi ca of ha',*:.ng to rule, whether the businesa about i
8 ,thece fl.ecke of nrterir.1 is or is not within contention In c g Nau, for tha record, I want to make it 10 ,
abundc.ntly cieur that in cur view it ic not within n content.cn 13, and there is nothing in Mr. Martin's 13 'testimony that would in any ucy establish a foundation 13 ,
th'a t t '1G e:<ictance of fle.cks of material would in any g way impair t:ts chility of the control'roda ha perform 15 their function.
gg l That boit_g co, vs think.that the trqument in j i . ,
17 i clecrly irmater: nl for Contention 15.
I dac;-this I
}
i o
10 Ishould he on the record befera the Scard rulsa.
I D n. , FANKHAUSE2.: I think the .
19 I I i' 20 l appropriate
_ne to cecine .haz.her it .ts ma;:sraal . . ,
i 21 or not uaa wilen they submitte3 their prafiled testimony, -
u
- and who fact tlat it is ahorc suggests they thought 23
'it was in fact rat:asial,- and that it is gerac.nc to tha i
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2306 cr6 Well, the Board does I' CHAIRM.E BECH30EFEE:
the 2 wish to hen th material or the tactimony on this,. .
the shsvings 3 Board does wich to hear the testimony en 4 >
1 and-on the material c5 t'qane.
S Y> rnalica Centention 15 ic fairly broadly X
6 worded. We til:-
reserva --- we vill allow the Staff ,
7' should aay, ;.c reserve the right to bring i.a itc own i
sllow 8 testimony, 1 u:.11 not parait myself now to 9 them the right ';c conduct ft=ther cross-ancmination --
I'n carry, I can't hear you, 10 ML bnEUUER:
C.U.IRMM BEC5HOMEE: The Scard does want to
'7! L
' hear the taatir.tany.t Thc Board alac trocid prefer to hear -
12 to the extent pc2cible., Tha 13 it this vesk., right noti. o
- to bring 14 g
' Board will c'. low the Str.if to reserve the right
!~ decide 15 in ite con te ::.n>:ss. At this time we will not tha Staff to defer its crol;s~ g 16 whether ve. w..ll allo *t <
17 l: examination,,
f to cross-ta I 3:c::ld hope the Staff could be able 9
1 ' cc the. extant 19 l exanine the i : tns.9sers who nra here we might have 20 possiblet. huh 4.tudar special circcmotance.3 i 1
21 i them race.lle1, 2.f there is further nead., 1 9
t Mr, Chairmen, I vant to cche it I!
ap, j M2. BE25HER: i es.a c.5% a .villion questions,i
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- ica t I he.e in nir.6 i 33 ti. t clea.: - i. 'J . . . . ,,
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ar 2307 ar7 1 worry abou-c these m:'11 ion points, because o:5 whc.t .
2 their analys 3 can concisely show, without .c. sting the 3 re cor6. 8 s ti:n 3 So you ra putting m's in a apcte whether 2
4 I eithe: am !aing to hc~a to r.sk all the F.ections I can
- i 5' possibl.e thish r.. .l nany of trhich may turn out ce be a 6 nonproblem r . . f f o t'. *7111 i or standiqc. muto tot.
7 C'U.::'.umM SIM:EHO3FZL : What I a r. scying is 2 8 think we vou'.d :athar hE.vG yce - W0ll, you1 nave to 9 make a choic; If :hcre ara mattcrs thai- tn n out to as a result y? ?urths: utc.f* work that we think tha 39 sama witnessas ave no L.3 ack.Ed about, you can have a gg .;c y ca : t,. .,
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' th<im coc.c fr:)n 3On.e cui f 2 f ar aria y., - -
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! M:1. ;iRI:" !EP. : VOu colve3 3. :y problem, That 18 was th one Ling I was verried r. bout. ;
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ar8 2300 I the way :tro Conicr has c r.g g a c t e d . I thin.k thct :ill save 4 .
- time,
MR, CONNU. : '?ho DCLrd has ruled then, that t l
4 this con.v. is .onr: of Con:entien 15?
i O CE'$IL'ItU 3EG "OEF3R: That'c ccrrect. We 1
6 will cllow ~- wo,.1, ge:ve rule d that v.>a want uc hear abauit 7 the too.ia. Cont.sntion 2:. is fairiv. b r o c.n .- anF. whabha r 8 it specificalUf is includDad or not, i sculd hav2 to P
9 #
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. e.". d t h. . ^. ^" mw-a n. f t h. .'.n g 10 to see whethe: they 1ere rarp;nding, whethar it tas -- I gy .ah ms th.. . ~., ~"'..4..- . .,ca,
'u' . m, t ... u '~ 4 won'a<
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2309
.or9 1 procecs. Th!.s cleaning orecess consisted of using 2 compressed air to atterpt to blow out any loose any particle:.
3 particios, neing vacuur elseners to suck cut 4 Also to rap an cha contr,1 rods to dislodge r.nything little probos to go under--
5 thct wa.3 ther:e. To use ::htn 6
neath the ch u_th tc see if tharc were any particles cow.ld ba . dislodged. All cf this in an 7 under there %hnu he under-3 attempt t o c.;.e n n c u .: nn't u.nrticles that mav 9 neath the chanth.
T'ain was found -- the particles were found TO to exist in :he connection between the sheath and the 11 12 f cent:sr struc : ural mctaber, w5ich is referrad to as a tie to clean off any 13 rods c.n3-the, citer this uns acne, It :fas wiped down 14 cil or anythi.ng of this aaturs.
t with coatone which is a degroasing agent, cnd that 15 j in esecace
- .is the cleaninc process that was doce on .$
e
.. c~
even !
-37 I
all of uhe cont:foi reds , Sven,. as a bettom line, thay wenld nava gg if thesa par,iclas had not been rsmoved, tg had no afics: whatscover on safety, source pg ' G W,.c sny depsrainitian nade as to tha l i
9 Of *b"53 P C # A C " 3 "
. 21' 1 rasulu of the spot walding.
A ros. Th.ty wa ,;a s 22 z p c t . </ e l d i.i.s g. r c a c e s ,.
avory once in a while a
.3 !.!when i you Go
'1 :iecas ci <- s :caterial heimj ccueez :d j y,'ycu will eat c.r il T P.e f3 s i
la UdtwJ:n O - .'. :10 S'.'r f u r:3 3 of P.hn 10721. !
gJ
- A;, Ottt u
e
I i
ti cr10 2310 I have probably the maximum size of probably about 1/16th q.
, of an inch wide and maybe an 8th of an inch long, and 3i i
[3 it's entremely thin, anyhe the thickness of a couple of I, o
' 4 . sheets of pcper.
t ..-
. .a i
i "S 1 Q Do you have a sample of the flecks or j l
n' ] particlea that were found?
i 7 A Yas, we took sangles out of the bottem of one 6 of the -- or.a couple o.I the control rod guide tubes
! ,r i
-
- when we noticed thaa falling down in there, and had ICI then enamined, and they were a 300 seriac stainless steel, 11 jwhichindicctedthatitwasnotscme foreign material
.I l
f 12 d that had got into the control rod.
And also because of
'I l 13 j the diccoloration of cuma of the particles, it was i
y
i M ii reconfirmed that it was a result of the material from i ;d
, 15 g the spot velda uhich we see in all of our manufacturing l
' li t i
- M ! process of control rods.,
i n
17 0 Did you make any determination -- I here hand l 1
1C you a piece of plastic containing a black background !
i i 10 I
paper to which'is alfixed come masking tapa, and ask you 1
20 lj if the cubstance indicated on the masking tape is the l s
3 1 6 j Si '
j sample of perticlec that you referrad to? i I I 2E ;; M2. 3REMIER: Mr. Chairman, excuso me. Is l'
23 f i this scing to be un anhibit1 .
- i. !.
2.1 :t MR. 20ME3R: Mc will offer it to the Board i l
2d and counc21 ac icor as *:horitneca identifies it, '
p - 4 i
2311 ar11 I MR. BRENUER:
Is this going co be an oxhibit l
2 marhod for identification and be part of the record? 1 3 Mn. CONN"?. We do not intend to offer it as !
b ene-of-a-kind thing, 3 4 an exhibit bncause it la a 1.nique, l 5 but wo will dist. lay it to the Board to help understand 6 the minutoncoc of the particles.
I DS. FAU2EAUSZ?.: I wonder if it's anorcorinto t s
j a ,1' j to bo uuing thic untarial before it's been available f
9 for inspection by variouc parties.
10 MR. WESTEREAT1:
I'm going to make it avdlable:i U to the Board nnd~ parties.
I2 MF..EEEUUER:
- ir. Chairman, I don't have any 12 objection to the use of it.
My point in' knowing in
" p advance is that indeed if it's not going to ba an e::hibitV, f
1 with the racerd, uc'll have te be very careful that
- i
% lN f ll the reccrd as well na pssaible deceribes what it is we i
17 i are looking at.
I DI (Locument handed to the Board.)
- ,i ',
ME. CONNER:
?.fter the Ecard and parties 19 j!
- i .l 20 [ have examined it, I vill be happy to havo Mr. Brenner l
d as soon 5 210improveuponmydescriptionofthedocument, b l Z1 as they have finished looked at it. ,
MR. W3TTERHAHI;: Perhaps the other partiec
- 8 Y
E? ,'
te shorten the time.
i.? ,i can anan ina it et Staff'c tabla
.3d ;j I.Giacussion off the record ) ,
r and 9 .
2312 1
EY MR. COETER:
' avid Mr. Pence, v:ould you indicata if that flech 2 Q is one of th .: f.?ec.e that you referred to as being ths aviol i 3
. .o,, - _, 0 4 largest?
5 Mc c.a you show -hr.tt tc str. Kananen.
a I Girk n goed sarc.ple of the Inrgsst ens is in 6,
1 7
tha lw-2r righthand co:enar Fhst scrc.aone would rc.?cr to as a 8 sample condicior..
Q Hl:.*tt tran -~ wc--ld y)u state those diaancions S
10 a ain as thsf uure :.idiented, please?
n e vere o.p.~ W.rtatos,r . c.6tsa or c.n 2.ncn w:.def 11 A
scrcreahere in the 12 appre.:irn.ts1 r ..,'Sth af an inch long, and i
.- - 4,j../.,0 J. - : twz _n 4 :.r..c,znes o .
13 nea.granr3.:oet cz 2 to 14 Q Of an inch? l 15 , A Of an inch.
I Q Cr : you cn:.ta whnt that is in :nicronn? l tg
.. , o c... .: . , . . . .
s.,m. o .u. .11.3 s .
g M . ComTEP:
Fcr no record, the Goctmn: at gg
- g tha top hac %e cap'
- ion Lt.?.1 Filings discovarci !a the i
go Centro? Rodr (C.earance batman blad a checth cud hierod- l I.
L' 'E.mer 1. "
resint oc : pot wGld do.c.) t c.f the wot.11 ycn stata unah is meant hy. l Mr. 7 enc-::
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2313 hich ycu nicht call the dr.vid2 y t.na canter cruciform shaped m.etal .4 r~ structural mnmber of the control rods that he's referred s
2
.to as a t i ered.
3 Th .s is all denribed in th.c FSAR if somahody 4
waid like to lock at com.3 of the pictures.
5 Anc around this spotwolded cone was where thesc 6
parti.:_, ee ue :e tornc.
7 MR, COHEER: If the board please, we htvo no 8
objection to putting thia in the record, recognicing 9
it is a unigne docw ent or enhibit, uhich is not scnceptible 10 to copying. Thsaa it.trie flecks on here were 11 obvioucly no:. ma:Is with -do intention of providing an 12 exhibit in ?. herring.,
13 They were simply put thore by the peopla who 14 did it at t'm ti:20 to shry- crmples of Unit Occu red, and 15 2 I under these conditiens u.Os cruite *.fillihg to put in ac an 1GI -
exhibit - c1thcugh :: (.'. cts:t thc3 it's really escomany.y 17 L becauae the boari ar.d pa -ties, having seen it vicenlly, 10 '
we've accomp".ished cu- parpora of giving you a vicuni 19 idea of ; hat exists.
20 '
P2 S MIN 3R: Mr Chai.m an, from the sts.ff's
(
21 i point cf viou 7 don'i. thhm it's necessary, unless ycu want !
22 L l j to give us c:.: 21.ach eac und thras ficcks to the raporter, j
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2314' dnvid3 1 DR. FAliKHAI'SER: I tcould think that the erhibit 2 is of little usa bactuno there's no way we c.w.how whether h 3 in fact these are reprecentatite of the flechs that were 4 found. ;
I I
5 '0 hey ' re of nc :.:ce.
6 MR. COUNER:. T:ia only other reason " ct.n think 7 of for putting it in in it 's always possibra une r.m...e. tal l 0 board might vant to have the sana oppartunity to g enamine the ::mtple, to MR. SRENIZ3 : I ha*7a a suggention, Mr. C'.mir. nan:
35 if Mr. Conne::, thronch his cl:. ant er hi'nsc15, can hat 12 comnit topcecerving .c - id it should cems up latcr, it ,
- 3 vill exist. ,
y GD.IEMAN E3CII,~s .222 : Doca counsel --
- 1 s- MR, CCW7. E I'n glad. Mr. Branner'his I.n.:2 eO confidencu in cr.: ci lity to presr re it ths.n th' Ccamission. .
16 f icR . lasIF- I 223 ac neannrity to admit it into
.g g the record, M.d 2 WCuld I.':r:c that we don't rally kr.cw t
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2315 d2Vid4 1 try to preserve it :.a cEcc the appeal board wants to look 2 at it.
3 E. CGNNER: If th board please wa vould new 4 go into the area idcntiff ed by :Ir. Brenner as tc the 5 chamfering vor:: that was subr. quently dona in r.n g, e O .# a. o .-.4 L
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3 C:-JAIIEWC 32CHEOSF3R: I ju::t vonld like to find 9 out hot.- long it would tr.ha b.cause wa'ra getting clost 10 to a time when ue cil.ght to break for lunch. Is it --
i MR. C0FJER: IMrc age.in, i;his info .'17..icn has 15, been p.' ovided, :: heli. eve, in respOnsas to interrsgntories; i
13 so simply uhat re're doiuJ is saying what cheul6. be well y knrown to --. g CI.2IRGH 2.Sclii!O3FE2: I waa.t to Iig':.re cat how much 10 ts..ma ..2.: uou.td n.aha.
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2316 david 5 1' before, a p:coblem scs encountered in one of our foreign 2 plants of a tolerance ccndition that showed a miner 3 interference.: be':waer a 1rdge on the velocity limitar, 4 which is located at the Lottom of the control redcand 5 the bottom cage of the fue~t. channel.
t 6 0 Mcy I interrupt you just for a minuto. It's I ashed you tha ecastion sequentially. l
- / my fault; 3 Didn't the NRC inspectors want to cr.ateine those e si:t control roda ss the no::t cuep after tha first incpection 10 which was then follcwed by the chamfering That you described?
1I A Yr s , : hat wac one otner intermediata step there; 12 there wac reins;ection that took place of the si:: control .
93 rods that h:..d been z.ccepted at one paittt in time.
13 DEL FAITHEUS5n: Is this - I don't saa how this relates tc the chanfering_ Are we going ba'ck ncu to talking 15 about irr2gt laritiec in %e control reds. It's the some 15 issue. .: don't und: stend tha point of the questien.
-I7 i 1
Mi'. CONNE1': For Dr. Fankhauser's banefit, I 18 and so the .acord is not acccad up I want to abou the gg 20 first ;;hing than wc.; done wcs the arrival inspectionfollom d bv the cleaning which wa.. darcribed. '3im ccds vara ths.n 2a4 -
g taken out for inspecti':1. so sha NRC inspectors could lock at them. ;
3 .
I Z.an *.,c crme '.x tha crat that 1ir. ?nn<. 2 is ncy
%, I' descriisi3.gr Jhich Iz.d c '.. c:r.M aring, g i n
ig 6
f 4'
2317 david 6 i BY MR. CONIiER:
2 Q Wor.ld jou contir.us your --
3 CET1.IRMIdi BE',TdCEI'ER: .I think it's uceful to have 4 it all in one place.
5 MR. CIMER: That'c what I wantad to do.
S (Witaeus pc.nsi conferring.)
MR. Bicmm e.: tur. Chair..:an, I don't want to 7
a belabor this h u ause I don't think it's important, but if I he.Ird Mr. Conner's cr.r.tary ~ right, in catting up 0
10 the chronolos;y, he's stating that inspection was dona bafora tb. chamforint . I d:cr.'t know ch2ther it's incortcat, an6 31 12 I'm not sure it's correct.
CHAIR:.IAM BI;CHHOEEB11: Ycu may cross encr.ine on g4 that.
NR. CCFliSRt ihll, that's --
15 MR. 33 31EEr. : - t'c i:ningortant.
16 MR. CU.'!!!ER : I': really ic uningortr.nt. but I
- 7 don' c want the recor.1 tc h2 rf.cled by my mists %c
- .:. If 73
- g I make two of them is
- a rcw, I ?.pologi::o.
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pg We' rc discus::ac. .icae chrono 19y 'aera au.. the final ' I thing.
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inaccatience tuc u m.x r.va r ehe IsC was .tene restar m Chl:3fer TCdificC.tiCT. .TCO ' Lde 0 3 th0 Cont:;o1 205 "I91CCil;y ,
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2318 david 7 1 and I'll lec you proceed then uith your description of 2 what occurrcd which led to the chamfering.
3 511TNESS PENCE: Okay. As a result of our 4 a::caination in one of our foreign pinnte we then instituted 5 a requir.mer t that we e::taine each control rod to make 6 sure that thic maxi::um material tolerance condition did 7 not re.3 ult in an int?.rfer mce uith the fuel.
I 8 Ncw, uo cant equipment cut to the site, some s inspection gaugas along with sur.e tools, to do the work.
10 And they -- the ledge that is en the velocity limiter was p chamfered by n hand-held grinding technique.
12 is.d than it wars viged cien and hhen put be.ek in g;g the storage area.
14 3Y MR. CO?.WSR:
15 0 What cleanup Mehnique was used, hha sc e one 16 cs prova.cusa.y,.,
i 1
g A :io, bocacce m. .'id nc h feel. that t'.ura wa:Je gj any partic.'.0:3 hat nat ir., We did take :mre tc cover up gg the holes ir an:r arc .is w tha't p=.rticles could ge in to l the co>trel rod, 20 93
- ,l1 Ar a ao t!v sir.ilar typo alunini that w did L
g before U.s rot rypst':ed.
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wen f .J .:. J do.vid8 3 reactor; is that cc:. rect?
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5 MR CONiiER: Yo r uibncsa.
6 cgunicRU r?,CIIE07.FER: I thinh at this Ots.ga it'c I
7 a good titre 2e bre:# 20:. lunch.
8[ L t.: ' 23 rtar. at 2: 00 o'cloch.
9 f.Cha cupor _- au 3. 2 : 'r' P . ni . , t: hearir.-J .a 10 recassed for Iv ah bo ..m0n'c;:= r.t 2:00 p.m ;:n:'. . Ir.22 cay.!
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s 2320 4
1 AFT 3RN00N SESSION
- 5 david 2 (2:05 p.m.)
davidl 3 CHAIRMAN I!ECHHOEFER: The proceeding will come take 11 ' ,
4 to order. I 5 Before lunch we were handed copies of a notion 6 of Miami Va2. ley Power Project to delay delivery of fuel to 7 the Zimmer alte.
8 Now, I am not certain of our jurisdiction even g to entertain this motion, but I would like to --~have the 10 applicants and staf:? seonthis motion?
y1 MR. CONNER: If the board please, we were handed 12 this this morning just before the hearing began. -No, it 13 was before the recess. .
14 and us looked at it. I don't thick it's
{
15 appropriate to take up the time in an evide'ntiary session 16 to argue a procedural motion, and this is of cource a very 37 serious ques, tion of whether this has anything te do with g this hearing and this proceeding, inasmuch as it's a separate licensing action which was already execat'ed by the g,
20 Commission und delegated authority under the Offico of Nuclear Materials Sr.feguards.
21 p
CEAIRMAN UCHIICEFER: I think we all receivad i
g copies of the Part 70 liconse, 1 Mr. Chairman, if I might, that p MR. ERENNER:
., i microphono is distorting rathar than transmitting. l 20 ;
1 >
2321 d:vid2 1 CEMiRMAN BECEHOSFER: The one question I had was
.n 2 that I would just as soon 2.accive written resp ases to 3 this motion, but I would like to know when the fuel is 4 actually going to be shippede 5 MR. CONNER: I don't know is the short answer to 6 your question. And because of the indicated civil 7 ~ disturbance that has bean suggested by the People on the 8 Missouri Valley Power Project, and perhaps others, I g do not beliove this is ccmething that this board should 10 discuss in a public forum.
11 This is -- there have been statements made as 12 reported in the press that are simply not conducive to the 13 properation of an NRC licensing function.
th And I jusc don't think thr.t's an appropriata ,
l 15 ID9"irY' CHAIRMAN BECEHOEF3R: I have not seen the press 16 g7 reports, but be that as it may, I -- the only thing I wanted ,
to find out is whether, if we asked ths parties to brief 18
- g the jurisdictional subj act, whether the fuel will ba shipped 20 in the interim.
That wac my only conearn, because this uculd become I 21 22 m ot, this atotion, if the cet were already dens.
M3. EOSIH: Mr. Chairman, may I first respond l 3
to a ramark that th3 witness reade. Fist cf all, the name
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of our party ic Micai Va.'. lay. l' 4 tip
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2322 david 3 1 MR. CONN 22: Correct.
2 i MS. KOSIK: Secondly, Miami Valley has not th.do l
3 any statements abov/: civil d '.sturbances, .and I -- if ,
l 4 Mr. Connor is going to make remarks like that on the record, 5! I'd like to have a 'casis for that because this is just i
6 !( lies as far as I'm concerned.
I I don't knew anything about this, and I'd like him 7l!i 8 i to be a lit':le more specific on the record.
9 C:iAIIRVi BECEEGEFER: Mr. Brenner.
ff2. BRENNER: Zir. Chairman, thio is -- I don't 10
- j want to argue the notion today, but I would lika to handle 12 it orally on the record this week, tomorrow if you like.
This isn't a case of first impression with respect to the 13 I board's ju -isdictica over this licence.
14 15 This Commission procedent that covers it -- and I think the guidelinec -- will be fairly clear; as to your 16 I
concern that events could possibly overtake the request 97 for relief, I think that's a very valid concern. And --
gg gg but I alao agraa that " don't think we should oven be 20 discussing dates or tirmo en the record.
c:ayba we could do that off tho record at a bench 21 conference, g
in addition, i wculd indicate that the NRC staff i g
y is sending a docultent -- I believo it vill be in letter ,
form -- to the applicant today which has rolovanac to this !
- ~ l ;
.i
2323 d vid4 1 subject. I should be receiving a telecopy here sometima 2 this afterncon.
3 If so, I'll endeavor to make copies and distribute 4 them to the board and pr.rtica. l t
S (Eoard conferring.)
6 Mr. SRENNG: But in terms of time fremos, I think 7 we could diccus3 that off the record. I've got some 8 information. I'm sure Mr. Conner has some information, 9 CITAIRMAN 33CHEO3PER: Okay, why don't we go off 10 the record.
11 (Bench Conferenco.)
CHRIEIAN EEC3HC2FER: Dcck on the record, 12 13 I think Ms. Koeik will resuma her cross ernmination, 14 15 DR. F.VH3AUSER: On the record. Well, I would f 16 just -- I'm not certain that this was, but I would like to 9 n the record as joining Miami Valley Potter Project in 17 gg their :cotior..
gg MR. HEILE: Ma. Kosit, wait a moment, please.
The City of Cincinnati ticuld like to review the motion, and 20 I don't think we're in a position ao to whether -- as to 21 y the nature, I guess, of our approach to the motion.
HCwever, X'm attre we will bo prepared to do so j 3
by later in th. Wech. Thank you. !
24h~ .i 4
a p I CHAIEITAM 11ECH3CE7ER: Fine.
- h. :!p
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l 2324 david 5 1 MS. K0SIK: Shall I continue with ny cmutination?
/
2 BY MS. KOSIK:
S C Okay, stated in the direct testi:nony, en page 2 4
4 of the.t tastifteny -
5 (Pausa.)
6 As stated iin tha testimony, the control rod is j i
7 designed to'cperate with substantial rubbing friction s
8 betwaen -- betwnon the control rods and the fuel ht:ndles, s which is, substaatially la c::coas of 40 pounds.
10 New, does this rubbing friction occur under all 11 circumstancas, no mattor what the dimensiops of the sheath l are? '
12 13 MR. CONNER: We would again roquest that'when
\
34 the witness states statictics or some parar.eter or criteria [
i 1
15 she cite the reference to it so the wit'ncasds -- '
16 CHAIF.WI DECH3CEFER: I think she road the contence 37 and gavo the page.
9g f WITNESS PEMCE: In ancur -- in annucr to that --
g is this coming through?
In all nor: mal casca thore in rubbing friction.
20 l Now, if overything is aligned just right, wo raight got 21 y some inctances where there in very little friction involved.
?,3 .
But under nortc1 ci::ct:r&.ances there will be a st:botantial i 1 !
g amount of friction in rabbing.
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,1
2325 {
DAVID 6 I Br MS. ROSIK:
2 Q Now, will thera be more rubbing friction if those 3 high points -- those high spots exist on the sheaths?
4 A It is likely, but it is not definitie that that 5 occur.
6 It dcpend.s on what the actual spacing between 7 the fusi is.
8 Q 0;:ay, Now, you -- wo talked about using a clamp 9 as part of the inspection precass, and then the field 10 deviation dispc sition request made uomo changsc.
Is it truo that that -- one of the changos was 11 12 that the clamp would be plccad over the high spot?
13 A Thatb cerract.
14 Q Okay, Mcw, heu do you measure the high spot when a clamp is over it?
15 i
16 A You mes.scre the differenca between the deficction of th a area right next to the clamp. Then you check to cae 97 18 whether thct difference is sufficient to bring the high 19 spot below the accaptablo lovel.
g Q So you'ra - ju're not measuring the high spot I
q l, itself.
A Chat's correct. You5ro measuring the deficction ;
22 I
right ne::t to the high cpot which will ba cemething less !
23 than the daflectica that la occurring right on the high
'24 ]t l em , spot. l w 9 A
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2326 dcvid7 1 Sc, thera is a consarvatism in that calculation.
2 O And uhat do ycu uso to :nako that mecouremont? Is 3 that the mic"cr.mter?
f 4, A Co.:rere t.
! I i
5 Q Ucu, in reJard to the natal shavingn and cleaning 6 out of thoce u.atal chavinrg:, did any -- did any of this 1
( 7 cleaning tak2 placo after the control rods had boon inserted 1 8 into the tubas?
l e Were they ever renoved and cleaned againi 10 A Tha cleaning process we did to remova the -- any 11 of the saali. particles on thero was -- no, no racleaning 12 lika that. Th2:e uns sema cleaning to remove tape adhesives, is things of that natu::a, after wo did the grinding on the 14 volccity linitor.
15 0 Hea, you stated that as part of the cleaning i
technique was - I believa ycc put it - rapping on the , 1, 16 I i
control rods; is th-st correct? }
17 IS A Cerract.
19 0 could you empicin wha't vca mean by that?
20 h' Yes. The way t'nis was dona is ue took some -- ,
t 21 some plccas of rags; we wrapped them in what is normally j i
i i referrad to as gray tape and naca this as like a light l g
l 23 L mallet 'cype of thing to rap against it, like'using a coft j y i material so wo didn't do any damage to the bicdas;that j a :
k would iar any of the:ce peticles 1coso. j y ,
.* j 4
- 2327 david 8 1 Q Did you then after that again measure the 2 thickness of the sheaths?
3 A (Uitnass Eanane.n) We spot checked approximately 4 half; the blades 1:cro -- as the blades were sitting on the 5 inspection biccks, you <.r: get the tcp two bladco, so wo 6 would just 1un over the hops. ~
7 So we inspected approximately half of tha 8 bladas afterwards.
9 Q When you say Icu "ran it over thetops," tihat 10 ,
did you run over the tops with?
i MF., CONI'iEP.: May I ask that the witness be allowed
?1 .
i 12 to finish his anstrer befera the next question is given.
12
' W TNESS IaNANE: The gauge is --
14 BY MS. KOSIK:
jg Q Hmr abcut inspcctionof the -- reincpa:':icn of the !
I L
16 thickness c ! the sheaths by means of a micreater? Did l 17 you 15se thau after the ~ after rapping on the control rods? j 33 i
A We didn't fin.1 any projectionable arcas beyond !
19 which anything different from the firut tima around; in 20 i
other words, we didn't find any rejectable centrol rods 21 ,
in tha ciurling operahi:ht.a. 2 A,
i t
20 };
{' Un8*1 f # In ##7"" # I'NPP
" #'#iU9*)
l M.i. MIE1ECR: 24r. Chairman, while there's a lull -
- k. [nd !
O in thf.4 r3Co?d, juSt tO E hG uS3 of tiMeg i 1CCaded th0 !'
2328 david 9 l' citation to the Cecission's Diablo Car. yon c re; as I' i 2 said, I'll cadnv0r to Oc h a copy tclecopiede but sho'.:1d v.ou .
~
3 or othcr partise, haw other recc2rces, I'll gin #t. %
J 4 'We connis.3io:. :tecision is CLI 7G-1, uhi.i me.7f 5 be found at 3 H?C 7 . wb.ah is e 1975 decision.
6 n:. recoll.natio:. in the appeal boa.rd dncision 7 Precedid thr.;. Co.uie.=:ici. :!catoion b.y a var.v. short time .
8 period; So it .:ould be c. f tlur sles-at '3 Hi?C' Mr a'il the 9 end of *. NRC.
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david 11 cross exani;.a ca o Ear rcfaty matters r and thb is cna of 2
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3 lE t. 3R.% ';R: : lel.*. c you sea,7 it's my belief f
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8 E.nc I thO k Pr .iria Island can bo 2uad tc state 9 thct you loo'.2.t r t'. <:ca'entienc thtt the onhar parties 10 and to tha x; tent tDu c ntan icns might cverlan tha issue
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c david 12 Lava greater lueway in :utting out ' che cross en2.minaticn
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- GIAIE#.N 3?.cuDEF2R: Ple11, that - W3 recognine
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CE ZMIAN L3CITEOSFEP. , Not cuite, Ib may work
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14 p xce r.g. m;.ght not hava an interest in the safety issueu }
f 1d that s'.r..sbcdy livir.g clos a to tha plcnt could. raisa. i So I'm t.ot ruli..g - mc.yhe in this c so !.t is a Ib-genersl rulin . Gtncarica tiv, it is nct. As I say, if an j g t I
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12-2 jwb 2333 1 CEAIE!AN BECHIICEFER: But Miami Valley has 2 subsequently sho m that it hac members living close to the 3 reactor - cicsa enough v.c the reactor, within 50 miles 4 of the reacter sits which ic the uafety limit.
5 iR. ConNE.q: :u the Chair ruling tbut no 6 threshold detarmination need ha made by the Board before 7 cross-examinstion by intrevenors on ethor centantions ir 8 permittad?
9 CHAIR"Mi EECHIMFER: Well, in the consr:t of 10 this case, I xculd sc.y a:0. of the intervenort: have 11 sufficient irterest to cr:. 33-e: anination -- to crons -e:mmina 12 on all the contentions that have thus far berca ac2.titted.
13 That might net apply acra.& the-board, as I tried to 11 e:: plain, but in thin cace it probnbly does, given the 15 contentions that are clroudy in the case.
b 16 FE . C ErdE"it 'Jc2 havo rulsd that i'.. applisa 17 acrose-tha-bcand in this case, hovever? Is that correct?
to CHAIII17d5 25CHIMWER: That's corroc'.:,
19 IE. C01DIEF.: M.ne .
20 C3IE&ai 3ECHEOEF2R: I did not inhand to ai imply, through ti to s~empic tilat just nandicned, for 22 instanca --it-. t'ais c.:ca.
23 Y': ' 317 ? CC*E -
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12-3 jwb 2334 1 BY DR. FMiIIINJE32:
e 2 0 I would like tc purnus a little bit the ques' cion 3 of hcw crocsing the tea-thi.rds of the centrol reds vara 4 shipped, and upon inepactic ; on the Ziinmar sits fcand to I
5 be overs 2. zed - tha: in, giictor than .260/1000ths of an 6 inch, I vonder whether the imnnfacturar hau hcd e.npcrience 7 with thin type. of prchlem Eafora? Or whether this ic the 8 first tine that a manufacitter, this particuler mscufacturer 9 has shipped cc strel rcds tchich wcere apparently inspcoted 10 before they ucra shipp2d, and to find that twc-thirds of 11 them had somal aw ch.anged thnir d'_Iwansions upon racsipt.
12 M R . C rioiI E R : Ob,iaction, your Menor. This is 13 irrelevant.. N a are Mrs ta discues Zi:r.mcr contral reds, 14 and thera ia r.o b: sis for it .becauce Dr. Fankhauser wond ars 15 about it for axpandiUJ tha scopo of the contbntion to 16 , include ; hat n ight or nigt.h not have s.appene d eltcuhere.
DR. FAN 1tTISErb 71r. Chairman, for oua auch e.s 17 ja Mr. Conn ir t;ho seems o be so intaresh2d at scme points in 13 proceeding onpaditicuoly, I h ;.;s he will permit nr. orderly i 20 question to oc. cur cu=L that we can gat sema facts ou: that l
21 I think . ire very pertinent, and tha'c t*.s do not have thia {
f.
32 continual f.ic: uptica c.f questioning of this witnac3, 'fa 've j i
?
p.3 seen thia before, cnt I he;c the Chair will admonich him tc {
t I
g4 reserva hit. obja:Mion:. fc- Slot:a is=uac which are e
.e.g Substant I."73.
s I.
2335 12-4 jvfo ME, 3RENNER: Mr. Chairman --
1 2
(Eaard Conferring.;
ME . BREmiER:
Dr. . Chairman, I wonder if I :aight 3
It seems to me that the i;itness be heard on t:1e c,bjecticr" I
44 I And if that's hir, t 5 testified ths. : thic uns Sortcal." 5 6 teaMimony , 'd.3 quest'.an in perfectly reasonabla to probe 7 that.
Yec, I think c: lecct this 8
CI~'tIID321 BECHHOFEER:
Ycu may anauer.
s question. I .iculd ovarrule the objection.
MIPIUSS r P?JCE:
Okay, the 00 control reds usra 10
~n other words, the fact tho.t t' ley 11 a normal type condition.
did not pecs .:ha ini .f.cl .UO genge did not necn th:=h those 12 thc.n whsn they left the factory, 13 control rods ;ere differa.m: -
tha sca? inapacticn techniques, ma uso the {
14 because we us 1 I i.
anme incpecti,n c.lm.t.;s, ta alininate the nerna?,. ,rsightiness
, o- }*
of the .>henth 3, Thie in s. norncl dssign conditicu.
16 j
- crly eton that isre outside thi innpachic Th l 17 l
- fi.316 l parmisrs i*are the cin ta".t vers written uo on n1e 4
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39 deviation.
"'U.t's not 14T - Ulai'. aan, encues a.
N I' N C :
20 /
Cha question was: Rus this 21 f respenci/c to the quacitica. cr occurref. > af0.: t.I.th Teseret to ether manufactitderc P.2 l this mm af t;.ct tun in <.'ther instancas? i 23 -
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?_11 right.
1 MR. BREUNER:
I'll continue it, then.
2 ?iI1' NESS PENCE:
Right.
3 CliAIIGIAN ECIEO.UFER:
4 pyIgess pJHCE: Zirce.er is tha fifth site that 5
we've supplied control reis to that were identical to this. !
6 And in all caJes, ne have this conditicn.
BY DR. Fl:UKHP.CSER:
7 8 G Do you have this condition in the ss5:e proporticus as you have h-sre?
In other wards, you have a majority of 9
10 the coni.rol rada, which ae ycu have stated, you are using 11 ) identical cri::eria for judgin;r the rods at the site of f
12 manufactura, and they are identical to the mechanicm that 13 are used to 11dge that on site, and you cor.tinue -- can you 14 find olceuhere that more than half of ths rods arriva wi In dimensions that cro differant from what ycu sant them?
15 16 that correct? '
Ohjac ion, your Honor. That ty i MR. COMUEn:
The misstates the testimony cf the witness' laat answer, 33 i laft the plant in exactly the 1g ,
witness said shay night have:
same conditica na they wera may. cured b*r the first pass of 20 the machine; not tha : they were changed; not that thay waro 21 22 different on arrival at the plant.
M' '2hairman, I'm having .
$3 2 M INNM : !
l 3,.3 I
difficulty in undersundirci tha ansuses that ars MI::r! '
.{1 de! : u ' an? nor ue to have su p r.fi:cun i
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2337 12-6 jwb 1 objecticas.
2 CinIrsh?? E2CIIIiN2EF.: I think the relszant 3 answer would :2a wheth2r or not the two-thirds parce.:haga l
4 is in line -- uhc :: hor the v.har plantr. had ot' tar ec aparabia ,
1 5 percent;g.'as . I think thec- c :that Dr. Fankh.nucer is trying 6 to drivs. at.
I don t know any ct.' the specific i 7 UIETESS P&fCI2:
8 numbers as to uhc t pa: contage '.Jare in thic kind of 9 condition. K2 dcn't '.ormally get that reported to us frc:a 10 the sitss. I do know tha': thn ,: percontage is nat urucuxl if for what :,.c wx16 see in ths manufacturin? facility, i2 BY 15 PW:11::.0DS: !
?
13 0 3rl did yc, .r to: po? ntion' apply thc.se same 14 techniq':.es spbcifica: 1.y - - the to:;hnique of t'm clamping -- l 15 on all five p 2aviou-: plani:.:? Or Uas thiS EE 'M M3OJdiU2*7 t
16 technigia cha;: ms naad la the Zinner inctanc ?
17 3. OP'.tnc an P ancs) lio, that'a ste.ncarG precadu::e i
16 in all plantr, or all man T r cu2 ring.
Ocule. you give ne cer.s ds22ansionc or. the ence i 1S 0 i i
of the c.1. sap .:hn3 un andsrutans is a 40-p0::.nd cit::ip2 Tihat i 20 t, 21 are che dimer. air.ms of tho ?acos that ac':ually cla.9 do:ra? f,
- t.'s appreuime.taly oin squars ir.ch.
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le 9.
l 7 jwb 2338 1 Q. Iii: it your un k rstanding that many cf thase 2 control roes rc.ay have' :cceraired repeatad cl.u@ing in ordar i
3 . to permit th: thi.cknsse gue.ge, or the width gungo ':0 pass ;-
l 4 over tha fini 5 A. Yc.c . .
6 3 Would you hava r.ny idea what cha n9pc.t- li: nit of 7 the timac uh.tch ri cielap n:r.ct. Le applicd en er oversirad - 1 3 fin to .;ermi. centpleti puasno.. of that gua p'.
9 a. ,do , .i. ar.n c.
10 G ik uld you . cay cht': 10 la a ntrnber tt.at could 11 possibly be ---
1 12 - A. I 's mry ac.Wula , i 4
13 .0 " 07 1
)
14 ;
r, h here rc li o .s:nt!.cn set as to bou ntny e.:u7.d !i i
1.3 bo on t.Mrs. I.c t.re nuw.n eccme wu:y e:;camw , to .,
s.
16 would prohab.,J/ questr.cn th .t and go cet uny +;e bri! .a ;
^
17 j many of thn .
3 13 3 01 s:h n 3 ti:-: :.jo::i cd rods, *::.a clacpdag - I !.
19 underctand h! cea - vara tMrs f'.ve timt wa.rt: c /c: e:.nd, };
f '
20 and cne itat . ua.c dartad? Ic that - my recc71ectio..t corrac:7 i-
- i. I p,3 3 a. I'd liha .a m. ,a c'u:c. '. hich ci;: uc're tu?.hing !
pc cheth, i;
4-
.S Q.
e [ bN'IM '/Y N 'A . Cor. r) 0C 3 I2s .#*- . IIN. "IE .bbN t ,
4 P
c.,.1 DaCh i*.9 b. 't. .'t I ?. M. ! Fj tE .* d .".' .. kd.d '*.E* 1*!*,b ?aEO .:3EN. Zi * * "
.1
' .~
i nc i,; urdcret:ci. d . . > i: >n? 1Le .u.*:nin' --
.'.c * * .u : s .'.n oi s
. 9 L
x ,-
r_-
2339
'12-8 jwb In
~1 those were oversized and could not be clamped doun.
2 that correct Objectica, your Honor. That is 3 IU.. CONEIF.: i that was given. And i 4 totally mischaracto: .!.ning the tactimon"J 4 5 if Er. Fankleucer ('i.dn't n3r.r it, that's tco baf. but he's ll 6 mischare.ctsr? zing the ten.iteny '
l 7 ~BE DR. FK.cMiMfi3R: ?
3 0 C:.uld you tell ma istat was the matter with these l,
I 9 fiva? i I una going to f,ny l 10 CUEMan DECEICEF2:
i 11 "obj. action s: stained " bu : ths prestion at lear;c chculd be .
I rephras?d, b..causo ir: us.:i niccicractericing '3 hut ths
. l 12 13_.t witness said. t i
i
.3~. FJ . ?;FM. wit.22R:
ta j_
ti; Q.
C.uld yc/. tIll :u / hat the nature 'of the 1e difficulti:-s with tir- ::a'/0ted control rods varo? . ;
il, I 3. O.-1':nace : enc't', 'i!#te are thr00 that did not -f i 37 i t.
10
' 'moet tho strr.ightuns.1 ra',uira : 3nt .
I r
}p G 10 nt regt.ir.t.m9c t?
1
- T1 a stre.iqh::noc t rse.ziremant. ';fi :: ighraess. ;
i st; n. i F
g; 3 Another teathoingy :or Nn : night be " bulk," i.' yar.'ra l
i l
p.g leohing fe.: e diffor ni: tn.:na .
l
.x.a il
.1, T .ert u?.c enc .nt did not m'. rat tha 51 ici ness ,
i e
- f. *' 2 I.'.C
'.Gr F- ,.~t.'s Il . J ;*;2.3 f.2.', ".Ys.d. 7.
1
.,L ..
k rOhN .r& int . I l l:.. LoN s 3. 2e
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3
^
- d.' A *. [4 '#'= I j *. w f Qg 90nle [,'. . 7' U .b 4e t ii
( 1:-
i h
ll
. . . - , - - - - - - ~ .. - -
12-9 jwb 2340 1
G New this ct:c:'.ghtnocs er bowing of that is 2 different thin ws.vinass? Is that correct?
3 A yes, it ie.
4 0 Aud en Bhut or thdt oras - that had senta 5 difficulties uith it.: th:.cb.us, wcula you hapr.,.m to know 6 what tha dinursiona of thc.t rejected rod waro?
6 7 10 . CONE:: Objecnica, ycur Honor. 'i. hat would -
G bo irrel.ovan'; it's been rejected. If this is somothing 9 that they wre tad to get into, they should havo ct;kad it on 10 , ,
disecvar*r. .
11 (Ioard c.c fsrring.)
(2 D I . 7 A N .7 E /.0 E F.H - 1-:r. Chairman, what I'r. ~
l 13 (Icard cur.fcrr.'icg-)
14 CEAIE'E4 MCHIDlT2P.: Dr. Fankhnunar, what is 15 d.ho reluveur.>r?
J t 10j DJ.. SANKUiUSI!: What I'm trying to est@ lich is ;
i i.
17 i' c::act..y -- I hava nn. gras a difficulcy in de:.uw.ining Gxactly l 1e
' where the cutoff poi::.t is hoyond which yon rej set a centro.1 I
to red. Sacause it o ms lifra thero are a ntnnhor ci! Icic that i
20 worn ov.3rnicr d M': utro al saped nnd accepted I
,o.1 7. m trvir.c. te is. term!.no, en this one ated that pf, v7a8 j rG*hCtJ3 dtC to '379 ;$licknOSG, Uhat DhcCu UiRSnG.OnB I i 1
- e. 9 N 6 - m. e we $ 4 [. . sh , L &' g', ,,e
'l yh nom of th.c reis n:caer.n L ,
l1 O .*
w) ')~
h5 k e
12-10 jwh 2341 l
1 l CEAIE N EECHECIFER: With cr without the clamp?
2 DI'.. PANKHaOSEn: I would havo to get into that i,
3 .
.! question -- cbvioucly it wonid be with the clamp, but it 4 I would be instructive I th:cak for us to sea the acximum i
3 l dimencions, end vint thor.c db.ensions 50 down to. j
,.; i 0 lj ME. COWER: If the Board please, we would savo I,
- / some tin.e -- apparontly Dr. Fankhausar didn't hear the
! i 3Iwitness'ansrer,theonethatdidnotpasothe.280guago.
1
- t It.was acmething that waa obvicusly rejected o'ut of hand.
G I 1D i That's what tho tectinony said.
1 1: l DF. 7:UEGnUSEn: If I'm not mistakon, that's the
]i 12 ene that una gouJod. Thmta's a diffarcaco.
ii {
10 ji IG.. CGR3n: That cne that was gorgod was j i
'l 1..b the si:::,h one, c t the shcath, not on the wing. !
IG.. DRIIMER: Mr. Chairman, I don't unde:!ctand i 15 id that last c:Emant. ;
, i' r7 CLAI:CIAN LECiEO"lPER: I think the witnoca oculd je { speak to the mather of which eno is rejected on uhich ground. ,
- t Thero s,teac to ba erme confusion here. I think wa E0 ', should get it clariflad. ,
i 21 wit!E3S PENCE: I didn't haar that.
l
{
i CI!AISIM D3CHTO3FER: Clarifying which ones were y, li t !
,i 'j rejectoit en t, hic;t gre:nde, and particularly the -- '
G 3,. g T:E2f1S FITCE: Okay, I'll go thrcugh thcas cgain. :
i' u
p,g CI AIKIAN DECiIIC3FER: The one you said on I
12-11 jwb 2342 1 thickness, if you know h,w thick it was, or a thicknacs 2 beyond which you vould noh accept one. You may not know i 3 that it was t lot thicker then that, but if ycu know the f
4 maximum that ycu taha. ;
)
I 3 MR. BlEITER: Mr. Chairman -- e::cuso te, S Mr. Witaser. -- are you arming him to go through the ctory f 7 on the six rujsetod ::odo again?
3 CEAIKIAN SECTEiOEFER: 70s.
I t
9 MR. BEEmiER: Could I mako a suggoutien that will [
10 help mc, before I get up. Could ha give the red nut & ora, 11 also? i i
I 12 F.S4ESS P MCE: ?ca. l 13 , CI:AIK4AU BICaiOEFER: If he haa them in front of i 6 (
l 14 him. '
l, .
1:3 .I E . BTE.E R: Ea should. Tus racerca hnre them. }
l 1e WITNESS PINCE: Huntar A-404 was rojostcd becauco I
i gy of the .290 thidncsc. Tha naturo on thickneca on that waa [
t ta .307, m:.::i: tun:. Gna cf thn pointa here is not the fact that !
l 1s that is semo :nm:in::.s dit.:encion; it's the fact that that 20 arca 10 no lenger fim:ibla. And with a 40-pennd forca, you ,
21 cannot punh it ' mick .*.nto tho .200 limit. It'c net the fact gy, I that you hmrc scanthing that would be greater than avon the j l
i g3 j 3.07 -- I mera, . 3 77: if that were out in the middla of the ;
i !
p,a red whe::e the. ahonth is :.hi?.1 fl?:cible, that uculd utill be s'
b ;g: an acceptable d.S ?cx J.un .
.~
lJo fina tlneo 13 no cuch cutsids t
l
l 12-12jwb 2343 l l
1 limit, as far as thicknocc gees.
E New this was one that 17an hit on the edge, and 3 that's' thy there was a dent there.
4 Nc w numbers A->461, A-400, A-443, wore rejected 5 '
because cf st.r.11ghtne.sc.
6 C7mIIMT1 LECEIfG22ER: Did you say - Encuco me.
7 Did you say " thickness," again?
8 TrD:TNEGS P2MCE: "Straightnscs."
9 CF.AIRMMi EECIHIC5?En: Straightness? Oh, I'm so'rry.
10 DI . 200?En: Yc 2 men, how? Using your --
11 VTiTZG 3S P3CCE: Bcu, yco.
12 i DE. HCOPER: Dc?r. 0%ay, I have hair.
I 13 WITI123S P2NCE: Member A-437 had a damaged seal. i 14 A-435 h:2d a r:cmgod cheath. Cn the curfcco, it had baan 15 gougsd. .
f.
18 DE."?A2G B. USER: In the event that your i
m:planatica is correct -
- 17) .
- ) -
1:3 " CEAX3 MAN EECECEFER: I think that romark is out 19 of order.
20 ' D:. 7miKEUSEn: Pcrdon? I 21 l Bl. IT.L 7EIKimU55n:
1 22 0- ail 219ht lo'.:' 3 ass'.ma thut your c:@lanation i
23 :
is corr.cct, : bat t?.c :cect:ca that thero una enly cna control !
- l u lI rod thi:h was ra;)octed for being tco thick, nn' t.htt was i a 1 n
g.7 !! becsuas tM nee::hirg ccC:1 not ba c1rped dcwa, th9n I wcu.,d ,
a f!
n
l, 12-13jwb l 2344 1 wonder why it would net ha appropriate to teat all roda
~
2 under pressure? In othou ucrds, the only thing you're 3 concerned about is the th'.eknees of the fin under presenre. -
4 I would think that that would be the way to check it.
t 5 Ia that an in:pprcpriate t.scunption?
6 A C71tness Pcnea) Coll, if Ohers tras a very JWB end 912 7 simpla way P. > do that, it :aight ba cyproprista.
ar 013 fois 8 9
to 11 !
12 13 14 i
t . ,
15 16 .
17 IS 19 I
20 21 22 d e 1
7Ye l !
Til e
I l 23 6 AR 13-1 1 Q Ectr much proccure did you estimato in applied 2 to tho fin of the coattrol rod when it is incerted into 3 the reactor?
4 A That can ??ary quite a bit. The limit that 5 we havo !!or operational prirpozos, this is not a safety ~
g requirement, ihie in an coerctional requirament, that 7 the maximum v:artical friction be approximately 150 pounds.
8 This is the paint at which a control rod will not settis g into a notch.
10 Q Friction, if3 omomber my physics correctly, 11 has to ha exprenned in terms of footpoundo; is that not 12 correct?
13 A That: 0 in error.
t g Q Ycti can onpresa friction in poundo alons?
A Right.
15 Q That is nuwc to :20.
16 g In the event that a rod had to be repeatedly jg clamped in order to pace the thickness gauge any 28peatedly cirapad 100 ti:aes, would you agres that the i 19 total azaunt of proccu:;e ttoeded to be applied to that 20 21 rod to g.at li: in conformance t:ould be about 4000 pcunds?
' ^
22 a ThTt in h'pothotically correct.
i' O *# " 0- U*"" * # *""#* *"
25 .
f ., h t:he cido ef! t;.hs ilia could be translated into 1.50 pcunde I,
, fri. tien for r? l
.b . ,
'. l n -
.- . _ _ _ _ . _..- ,.. _ _ .,_,_, __,,---..,, _ .._ , _.._~ ___ _ . _ _ , _ _ . . . . . . . - _ _ _ _ . . . _ _ . . - - - - - - _ - . .
o 2346 I A Yes, it could.
2 Q tihan you say substantial, on page 2, halfway 3 down the page, control' rod is designed to opornts with
~
4 substantial rubbing friction, what does substantial moan?
5 A That mecas that it is designed for rubbing 6 condition. This will ho comething lacs than the 150 7 pounds. Now that will, of course, vary dope'nding a little 8 bit on how ctraight the control rod is and what the 9 actual gap between thF fuel is.
10 Q And that 150 poundo is the amount o'f force 11 that the control rod drivo excrts?
12 A No.
13 O Eov much force doeu tha control rod drive 14 exert?
15 A This variac a little bit betwebn conditionc, 16 but the sort of the bottom line azea'is an approximato 17 2000 po*2ndc. '2his can go up to es, much as G000 poundo.
Te Q Ia that came amount of, force applied when 19 the red is iaoraktod as when it's drawn out?
I 20 A N.J . In dratting the control rod out, you oither 21 allow in to acau out by gravity or you put appro=imately 22 250 pounda foran over tha top -- I'm sorry, 250 pounds .
g3 of pronauro, thhh would convert tc appronimately SCO j
Rc .poundo forco to drivo it cut, t
gg Q :In the contenc:a that follous, it says, I
C"3 2347 1
"Therefore, the 40-pound inspection claup 2 has no effect on cafety of normal oporationc."
3 Would you say thtt in order to mako that 4 statement, one would have to assume that you only appliedi 5 the 40-pound cicmp cnce?
6 A No.
7 0 You are esyitt<J it could be appliod repontedly 8 over the antiro length c:3 the rod?
9 A Correct.
10 Q The antiro length of the rod in about 10 or 12 11 foot?
12 A 12 foot <
O And what in the width of the clamp?
13 g4 A E::cuco me, I don't understand what you mean g by width.
16 0 The clamping :Iccan clamp onto the control 1 37 Tod.
gg A R!.gh .: .
What in tho width of the clamp? I gg Q want to knew hoti many tinam one would thooraticalli ~~
20 3;
the maxinue number of tinoa cno would theoretically have 22 to cle.mp on that fin in order to pasa a thichnosa gauga over tho entino lonyth.
33 f l
3 That dopandeo That in ocntrollod by the f 33 40-poun,i apring on the cinep, as to how far tha clamp
$ i l'
2348 cr4 1 closes.
2 Q I don't think you understand. .
3 A I don't think I do either.
4 0 You have a fin that's 10 feat long, you 5 havo a clamp at one end, becausa you can't meet the 6
thicknens gaugo, you have to ropeatedly tako 03f that 7 clanp and put it back on to get that gauge to move along the control ::od. Z8m looking for the ceiling limit a
g for the maxinun number of timos that clamp might have 10 had to have been applied.
Mn. CONNSRs Objection, your Honor. We havo 99 12 an open-endad hypothetien1 qusation, I don't know whero 13 jvegota10-footlong--
Da. FANKrAUSSR: It's appropriate becauce 14 he can't recall the numbar of timos a cladp may be used.
15 I'm looking dor the limit.
16 WXTHEDS PENCC: I thought I told you a little 97 g while ago thore is no liuit. There is no maximum limit gg defined for hhe nusher 32! timos you can uso the clamp.
Now, of courco, when somebody ucas the clamp 39 an e:<cauaiva numhor of times, the innpoctor may get a 21 little bit caricuc nac ack a ocuple of quoetions, but
! 22
,s, there is no enginn.n:.fing final limit as to how many timon
.. , l J
you na apply that, j 24 ,
Now, id 'Jor ocmo roason,, somebody did cyply l, l
,1 it ~~ I'll ti.ks a h:ipotheticci case -- many, many, many .
cr5 2349 1 times, ao thare is a very larga friction that vill 2 obvioucly be found during the pre-op testing of the 3 control rod and the control rod drive.
4 BT DR. FANKHRUSER:
5 Q T.aat clanp is about a quarter of an inch wides 6 is that correct?
7 A (Witnesa Ponca) The clamp -- it depends on S the spring, tho 40-pound force spring, as to how far the 9 clamp la open on cloaad.
~
10 0 I'n not ashing the distanco between -- the 11 distance hetvoon tho faces, I'm asking th? surfaco area 12 of the clamp and faceno 13 A I onid ono quart r inch --I'm sorry, one 14 square inch.
15 o cao aquare inch is not a~-
16 A I doa't understand what you mean by the width.
37 It is apprcuinately juct a little bit lena than 'a one g3 inch diameter dace, Zs ':hnt whatysu are ocking?
gg Q You ':old me that the face has an area of ono 20 squaro inch.
A That 's actre c':,
29 22 o If that clamp woro four inchon 1cng, it would 23 have a uidth of ono qucrtar of an inch if it woro one 2d inch, tha fnau vas one inch long, it would havo a one inch
,, s wide caco? I don't coc -*
.~ p t
t
+
2350 or6 1 A It's slightly leco than one inch in diameter. !
2 It's round, it's not square.
3 Q Thank you.
4 Oc that the Ensimum number -- accusing the 5 .wcrat case, the maxinun namber of timos that ons 6 might have to raapply that clamp if cae had to work eno's 7
way all sleng the fin, and if I'm not mistehen, that 8
rod would still panc incpection because we'ro able to movo g that, that wcsid roughly be 12 times -- 12 inches timea TO 10 fast; correct?
11 A That*3 a hypothetical correct statemont.
12 Q What kind of effecto might you expect in the 93 avant that sufficient friction were generated between 34 the control rod when withdraun, and the reactor assemblieu 15 themselvoc, fuel acccmbliss themselves, such that the rod would not go into tha coro? What kind of effects 16 would you e::p act on the ranctor itosif7 Under that 37 10 situation?
21R. CONHE3: Objection.
gg 20 WITNEJS POWCE: I don't undsrstand --
DR. FaHKEAUG33s I don't understand what g
sufficient manns mycold.
2j, I
MR. COHHaas the question in unintolligible E3 I w
-y t. and we object to it on tcat basis.
t DR. I?ANKEAUSEns I'm surprised Mr. Conner
., i , ,
it can't unda c;;tind =y ;ueW:lon e but I would , Joint out that f
i cr7 2351 1 the roanon pronumably we are worried about thono control 2 roda in that they will not function properly at tinoo 3 when it would bo important for them to function.
4 What I'm trying to datormine at thic point 5 is exactly whah hind of offects ono might ace in the 6 event.that the control rod refused to be incerted into y the reactor.
8 CMAIRMAH BBCEHOEFHR: I otill don't understand g your pravioua questions hovavor, I see what you are 10 driving at, but I still couldn't understand the 11 Previoua queation. I think you'd better rephrase it.
12 DR. FAHEUAUSER: All right.
73 CHAIRMAN BECH302?ER: Try to clarify it; maybe 94 shorton it a little bit.
BT DR. F;>NKHAUSER-15 0 The reactor in in operation, all of the fuel 16 rods, all of the control roda are to be drivan 37 g into the reactor; cae of them refuses to ,o iac because ,
jg the friction in too grant, and it will not alles itaalf t be inserted into the rocctor. What kind of effect 20 g could ono o= poet on the roactor performanen from auch a nonc pairativo control rad?
22 23 U *""O "# "U * "U# 0 "EED"" A l the analysia crentuou that the control rod with tho
~
?A s highoct wort.1 or tia one that is acut important to the I
- 1
e .-_
2352 C#8 1 activity to da controlled, will not function. rhat is 2 assumad in all calculationn.
3 Also, in a random, checkerboard typo pattern, In a 4 we only need 69 parcent of the rods to go in.
5 cluster we can have four control rods ne::t to each other 6 that will not insert, anel still be within anfaty criteria 7 Q Does that safoty criterin assume overheating 8 of the reactor auch an in an " abnormal occurrence" where 9 expects expannien of tha channol through which it vould to travel?
MR. CONNER: Objection, your Honor. There in 11 12 nothing in the record that lays the foundation for that.
13 Dr. Pankhauser has waved a magic wand and all of a sudden ja has expansion of cht.nnoin.
The uitnces has just acid what'the chutdown 15 16 critoria aren, that is what must be mev. Now running g7 around n hypothetical qudstion about oxpansion or 18 something on a hypothetical basis is cert'einly not 39 productivo herc and is cartrinly a long way from this e
I 20 contontion. ,
DR FAEKEAUSSRs Tho last timo 71too'c physics, 21 g
I scom to ranonbar that utien metsi in heatso, it expands, a chenac1 through which c control rod g]andwhanonohn:
v l g4 munt paan, a:td if tlat control rod is alrondy ovarnized, and cuo i;5 having t:roublo with the reactort 31rcady such (
7 j
c i
2353 cr9 1 that it's ovarheated, one would expoct ths channel through 2 which the control rod pcoces to expand, and would 3 further inhibit the movenant of that rod, and I vondor 4 whether thoso critoria that you cited include accident 5 or semi-acci3ent conditions.
I think tho objection was 6 C3ARMhn DECHE0EFER:
I 7 you didn't have enough foundation for your queation.
8 think that o3jection in well taken, but you could lay 9 some foundation.
Ma. CONUJR We also object,*four Honor, to 10 11 Dr. Fankhauser's tantifying on sono hypothetical physics which has nothing to do with this contention. This 12 j
13 contention hac to do with the manufacture of control l M rods.
15 Now we havo cuen well-mcaning amateurn 10 onploro the uorld of nuclear physica and enginsoring 17 in canon before. This in what Dr. Fankhancer apparently is wants to do, is to study the roactivity and thoworth is of control rods and oo furth, and we object to thic.
20 ns being complotoly outside this contaction, and ha 21 should not bo allowed to do it.
Mao DR3NUER: Mr. Chairman, if 2.might, I 22 ,
2 23 can't racist anying that was the niceat thing I over l heard Mr. Conner any about Dr. Fankhauace in onlling l 34 !
{
g j him well-coaning.
O i.
n Y
cr10 2354 1 ER. COMUSR: I'll withdraw the comment. !
2 (Laughter.)
3 MR. BREHliER: On a more serious noto, 2 $h(nk 4 what we have just heard from Dr. Fankhausar doos 5 illustrate the problem in having non-atternsys crocc-6 examine. We end up with a oroom-examiner tectifying 7 instead of asking questions, and perhapo Dr. Fcnkhauser a didn't realino it, but ho went on for quite some time 9 without asking a qu3stion, end that's not proper, and if I 10 he doesn't concentrato en aching quantions which he 13 was doing very well at for a while, I might add, I think 12 the Board should stop in,
~
g3 C3AZRMAN BECE20EFER: I think for the immediate 14 question, Mr. Conner'c objection is sustained, but I 15 think you will hava to lay more foundation, and do it by 16 asking questions. Yob can't testify.
97 .Ma. FAWKHAUSER: I had been acked what I gg meant by the questien,'and I admit that parhapc I gave 19 too many of the answers mycElf. Let as ask this:
20 BY DR. FANT.HAUSE3:
21 Q In the event that it becomes necessary to 22 shut down a reactor becau=e it's overheated, what effect l
23 would you expect that ovarhosting to have on the control 24 channoin through whi=h the control rods pass in terms 25 h of their'dimoncion:;7 ;!
U n
6
__ __...__4.--
2355 cell I A Wall, it would have very little effect, 2 because although the fuel 10 expanding, the baco on 3 which the fuel sito is nlao oxpanding, which moven the 4 fuel bundlas further away, and enlargos the gap, so 5 they compensate each ottor.
S Q So that the dimencionc of the control rod 7 channeln would be unchangad in an overheated reactor?
8 A I don't understand what area of torninology 9 you are referring to hore --
10 CEAIRMAM BECSUOEFER: I think that mis-11 charactorices uhat the witness just said.
12 D3. FA3r.5AUSER: My understanding of his 13 answer was he said that there would be counteracting 14 forces on that ch'annel.
15 WITNESS PENCE: No, I add thero would be counteracting movements of thcas two bundles. In is l 17 other words, as the fuel bundles expand, as they get 18 larger, the control rod, tho fuel support which the 19 fuel bundle sits on, also expands and moves the fuel l
20 bundles further apart. ,
MR. BR3NUER: Mr. Chairman, I'ia sorry to have 21
! 22 to do it again, but I really don't think counsel should a be engaging in conversation with his own witnaca while 1 33 he's being croca-oxc. mined.
Mn. COHNZR: iic11, I don't agree with Mr. ,
t
\
ou q's
~
i l h j
b' ,
- (
i C#
2356 I Brennor, I wso talling tho witness not to voluatoer 2 information, to not try to win an argument with Dr.
3 Fankhaucer. ,
4 MR. DRENNEn I'm not critizing tho quality ,
5 of tho advica, which I think in good, and I tall my own 6 witneosos thet. -
7 The point i= you'rs not supposod to be coaching 8 the witnesses, just that kind of thing, while he is u
9 being questioned.
10 MR. CONMERa~ Mr. Brenne.: is out of line. He's 11 used that phrase twice todcy without having any idea I2 what he's talking about. I told him what I told the 15 witnecs and there's nothing wrong with that. Hr.
14 Brenner's paranoia on those things in getting a little 15 out of hand.
l Wo may bo fooling around with 16 MR. BREU33R:
17 paranoia, and I neglected to put it anido, although 18 I've got a couple of bad linea handed to no on that 19 subject, such as, "Holp, the paranoids are after me."
20 But I used tho' term coaching adpicealy.
21 First of all, it's a term wa all rocognigo, 22 Second, Er Connor identified Mr. Ponco as his 23 quarterback. I don't know of any football rules that 24 [ allow the coach in tho huddic, and that's what is going _
l' l 25!lonhere.
l 1
I
y __ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ __ . - - - - - _ - - -- - - - - - -- ~-
cr13 2357 l
1 Mr. Chairman, I would like to got the '
2 direction I roquested from the Board to Mr. Connor.
3 MR. CONN 3R3 I can assuro Mr. Dronnor I 4 vill not coach the witneca.
5 CHAIRMAN BBCE302FER: I think we montioned 6 earlier that councol should not be coaching their 7 witnocnes on crocs-examination. I don't know whether 8 Mr. Conner was doing that er not. I wasn't really 9 vatching. But I uill accuma that counsel will net coach 10 their witnesses.
11 BY DR. FANKHAUSER:
12 0 Spot woldo that vero made on control rods 13 apparently produced a cort:.a amount of debris; correct?
14 A (Witneca Poncs) ?ca, it'a'abr6 ally referred 15 to as apot veld splash and spatter.
Is 0 Dcea the dimonaions of the spot wold splash 17 3and spatter vary ovar a wido range?
18 A Well, it goes from a pretty email to a2mont 19 lj lika a dust condition.
20 0 Eut one soldcm como any spattar any larger 21 than what you dispicysa? ,
22 l A Yes, it'a vary raro. It happened to be an d
25 cxtremely out-of-control aituation.
24 O In the ovent that some of thic spatter got P I gg i; into tho OGactor Cenlant water, you stated it would be j k
l
s cr14 2358 I removed by filtern?
(
2 A Corract.
3
, 0 Whore ara those filtera locatod? l
[
4 A They are all over the place. They cro in --
5 almost every kind of conponent has some kind of a filter 6 in it. Also there is a very large clean-up system 7 that is used for the ren= tor water.
3 Q You any, if I understand it correctly, some 9 of those filters are in front of pumps that circulate 10 water through the roactor?
11 A Correct.
12 and 1313 l 14 ;
15 16 l
17 18 19 20 -
21 22 l
34 .
il j' 25 :
E i 1
2359 0 So these filters would obviously have to pass 6d2Vid 1 avid 1 2 large quantitiss of wate:: throu.Jh -- par minute, correct?
tak3 14 3 A Ne, not nccescarily. It all depend's on thich 4 pump you'ra ta.lking abou .
'l 5 0 Lat's tal' ab u; a recirculating p-::.'p . Uhat .
the gallon pa:: minute fica in a racircu..c. ting 6 would be 7 pump?
That I do not xac,7. I do kncN that it is very 6 A g .arge.
10 C Do you knP.; i t' there cra filtera f.n front of that --
those pun:pc'i t; i i t
1; 4 A No e T. f.o notL.cu.
i g3 O I'r. parct.w.:.ly ';:.r.y surpris.2d to hacr ?.he suggcchio )
l g I that thare might bc.
So if the.e ur e n.o filters, that.C.eb'ri.s might 33 V611 F2G3 t4 E9h the I' "ir;ulating pump?
16 A hrticle. c2 f.at amall a size uould not e.ffact g7 D. l -canos that hava tk.: inr e a flow at: all.
~
scr:e p':cp and some corgon ent.n which gg C Thora a::3 q
! uould '.1e exposed dirsull. to cuch particleu if -hay
.l USre suSp 9E.59.d in DG O.Oliy WP,t30' iS th48 COrrOct?
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2360 david 2 1 do with the reactor clea.nup sycter.t or the functioning of 2 pumps.
3 (Ecard cc:derring.)
4 C3.7.IF.*E 2ECE'02?En: I think t'act q'r stion in 5 gatting a 1::.ttle c.a..
I e
G Obj action st tresine.a. ;
7 DH. FATdimarla- 7.# I :acy addrans th: board on that 8 ' question, I thini 13 is 4.rtper.':ent fer us to c: 91oro rhy 9 we would be cencarn zd ,ab.ut oversized control rods - about 10 debris within tha control. rcds, and it may call b3 that 11 i;c will Sind that t'.are is nothing to be concerned about, 12 In unich cmae va ca. r.c:14 at m ..
13 But I 1:h t...d: u :- h2w not yet established ti:.at I par .a cs.es m:. ,;;.n.tc sf.s:e
.; ante c :.:.:e can ne 2.cnorac 3.a -- 3.n 1.,2s j3 l Sa);C O P Si*C.t 2.C GC .c: C. : OEC ? 'T.
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gj after tha objection has .-' on sustained. It in rob productivc, gg
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- 10. . B PE.$";R : Mr. Chairman -
21l ;
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4
9.a61 r filtered david 3 1 is specific - he said at one point they,we e 2 out.
- if you -nnu to 3 do ' . if v.. ca nm n.ma ethe::
.s un ng, you shetua ce spom.ra.c 4 go sor.mu. zrce o_se w:.u,n t,c .
and say -- nik him acmei::ing r.pecific as to the f f.ltration 5
6 of the'Je p traicies.
The
/
- icW I don't krow uhare yo'1're going 2cw.
oa board is not a.repa.n d. 1:o any: and it decon't see:n to be .
a relevant.
W. MEEW4 bli -
10 Lwn- n.t. -a.. p .r..t .. eg. u.
.w ; 3. ., w.. ..wa
.n.
Wdll I WaC Uddr233ing 3'{331f jp, UF.. .TdlIGid. USER:
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2362 1 was I didn't know whethan there vere filters in the devid4 2 recirc system.
3 BY Dit. FAMIUlf.UER:
4 0 So thnB whan :rcu carlier said that these filte --
5 these particles wou..d be filtered out before they ranched ther thnre 6 the pum.o.s .rcu forgot that .v.ou didn't know whe 7
'ce some in frcnt 0:. theas p=npu.
Mn. CONDER:
Tis object to ths.t, ycur Honor, 8
9 the witness testified thnt ihera wei.e filtera all over to the place, a: cn urpurt on the 11 The witnous is not offered 13 reactor cice.nt:p cys:en. He's a,n expcort on the maan'icct'ro an.' ue object further to this lina 13 l of the cor.t: ol rede
'ekhauser will nent be taking 14 of qccatie.,ni.nr whereby Dr. .
tc. the switch ycrd tt. See whc.t will hppgan out g
13 us out 10 thoro.
Cor.cission
.t.id ths.': is W.tx.b' r et the way t5.3 1na
~
gg rules are este.blishad te limit raatters te contoutions. i I
D ' MT E2 E22 - CI 31 32" ~~ ,
19 i l
t (30ard ccaf3rring.) I 3
lir. C.airnan , if I ..'icht, ca behalf 5
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21 l
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2363 david 5 1 anmely, tcday we learned that these particles are now part _
2 of contention 15 or at least within the realm of something 3 the board wants to hoar.
4 I would submit, I think uithout great argument, 5 that even if I were to concede that part of the 6 contention -- which I don't believe -- but concending that, 7 arguendo, it's clear they're somewhat on the periphery, at 8 best.
9 From that point va allow the parties who had 10 contention 15, of which Dr. Fankhaucar is not one, to il question on that.
12 Now, we have Dr. Fankhauser, who is not a party 1.3 to contention 15, under Prairie Island, be allowed to 14 ask questions on a contention. I assume that also neans 15 the very pe::1pheries of the contention, which would be the 16 l Particles.
1
! But for heaven's sake, it shouldn't include the 97 18 reactor cleanup system just becauso we're talking about 99 particles, 20 CHAIRMAN DECHHOEFER: The haord was just about 21 to hold that.
22 MR. BRENNER: But I think it's useful to cee ,
h w s1 wly but.sure uo walked down that line.
23
- o. CHAIRMAN DECHECEFER: The witness testi# icd that !
se d;l i
,, !! the filtrat.',on -- there was filtration which protected l
'~ !! !!
e :1
- t. I 1
l 1
2364 1
I david 6 1 the pumps that needed protection. And I think the questien !
2 started to get into pumps that '~a witness said were so 3 big that i:he particles could4't aff2ct them at all, even 1 4 if they wuren't fil urs!..
5 I think we're getting a littic far afield. Wa'11 G try to go on fromthat, cnd I think we should cut back a little l
7 bit.
8 I just don't think the lact series of cuestions c is relevant to the -- either the contention or the a:cpanded ;
10 contention, as you will. I think it's going a little bit ;
I
- I' far afield now. l 12 So, the lest objection io custained. l l
33 BY DR. FAEGAUSE"- 6
.g Q All right, let's address ourselveu to those fuel rodo -- thoes control rods which went throu' git the cleaning g ,
i 16 l~ Procoas.
I That -- that c1 caning process included rapping j7 g
with a mallet, was it? URappi:ag in clothavrapping in gray i
19 l DE* t 20 A (I'iitnes: Penen) No, that uns scme rag = that vore 3;
wrapped in grey tags.
- If 3
Q Rf.ght.
- y. A No mallet involved at all.
1 C Df.d you cbsca"Je any changasin spacificatienc of j 2 '> ' 1 4
.g the contrel rods afbar that treat = cut? !
a .
{.
-- =
q 7 2365 david 7 1 A (Nitr.ess fiananan) No.
r~
2 O What? ,
3 A No.
4 o Ware all rods -- control rods checked after that l
5 treatment?
S A (Mitness Pencs) I think that was ansvared before.
7 MR. CONNER: Your Honor --
8 (Board conferring.)
g CHAIPEAN BECHECEFER: That was asked becro, 10 Dr. Fankhe. user.
39 I'll sustain that one.
EY DR. FJdKEAUSER:
12 13 0 My undcratanding was that spot checks were made;
- I is that -- is my understanding correct on that?
14 ;
I i to A (Nitness Peace) That's correct.'
i Q Nay I then accurately conclude that some rodo
' I, were not checked after rapping?
17
'. A I think that's correct.
a i 13 'i 0 so, would you say that changes in dimoncions might L 19 '
i have occurred as a result of rapping?
{
8 20 ;
j A Uhen you cay "might," that's true.
[ i
, 41
- DR. FANKHAUSER
- No further questions.
22 t,
( ; CHAIRMAN BECEEOEFER: Mr. Holle.
I
. 9" i.
~#
.. MR. HEILE: ~ Thank you. '
f! h i
- 2A !j 1, BY MR. HEZL3. ,j c *; i*
";c i 0 With raforoace to t!m .25G in:1 n . xr.acs of the ll 1
- t
.__m._....... .r 2366 control rod, is that a specification that General david 8 1 2 Electric had to comply with, from the compaTf to -General 1 3 Electric in ordering those control rods? l l
4 A No.
1 5 0 So it really isn't related to a particular ;
6 specification in tha contract.
7 tihere do ne gat the setting of the figure .290 9 of an inch?
9 A That is an enginecring requirement that is on ths 10 drawing that gives us the performance under which we did 13 our test work. ,
12 0 Thece are not shcp drawings, are they, what
)
J 73 you characterize as a shop drawing in the contract Yes, our engineering drawings are our shop 14 A 13 drawings.
16 Q The drawings do not make up part of tha 97 ,
agreement, though, betwcon Cincinnati Gas and Electric i
gg or the applicant's, w#il say, andGeneral Elcatric, l
t .
gg A Mo.
li 20 0 Mou, when you put a clamp on the blade in an l
area where it exceeds -- let's assume we're taking a 21 j b
22 control red that at a cortain point execeds .280 of an inch thickness; you put a clamp cn that, and that reduces the 23 .!; .
I' I! sine back down to the gauge oi' .280; ia that correct?
Ri 1:
n g jI Though practrably it has the capacity to reduca l
,,.,-,-n-, . , , - - - - -
1 2367 1 dnvid9 1 that size bach to the .3GO cf an inch. l 2 A As long an it doesn't take mors than 40 poundo f
3I to get to that point, right.
4 Q THer.' you take the elwp off and presumably when 5 the control red actually enters the reactor at scma point 6 later when it's put into service, thera is no clamp onit; ir i
7' is that correct? l 13 A Cerrect.
9 l Q So is it true that after tha clamps are renewed, 10 that in scma instances the gacga could get back above tho -
gg .280 of an inch?
12 A It docs it all the tino.
I 13 G It doca - I'm sorry?
g A Ih dcas it all the time; the clamp dcas not
- l. .
g permanently daform the blado la any way.
l I
gg Q The only Way - tha purpoGo of the c1 Cap, then, is to deter:r.ine if in fa::t tha natorial can be comprecsed ,
.7 gg below ae .280 of an inch gauge, )
i 3
A That is ccrrect. Wo're trying to find out if it jg 4
20 j L2.ght be something undcanath there or there's a real i
g mechanical damage that 40 pcands cannot conpress the sheath l
1 t rem v tLa normal waviness condition.
2't l
. , . O Dtt ic it also :orrect, thsn, that once the -- ,
.e .. ,.
i C
y, once tc.c -- presumt.bly ic gcan hack into the same poaition c
it was before tha ec.nmp m.c incerted on the red -- on the i c.b.
. _ . - - ~ . -- _ - . -. -
2368 d;,vid10 .1 blado.
c )
2 Once the rod gr.Is into the reactor, then you may t J
3 have a cond:'. tion trhare you havia a variance of gauge or 4 thicknesses on that blade.
5 A Thntis correct.
S Q Ard to.the er unt that you have a variance of 7 thickness on the blade where the variance ercacds the .280 8 of an inch, you will have incresced friction, is that 9 correct?
- l. '
10 l A That's vary prchable.
11 , O Now, where ycu have increased frictica, can c.
12 l. I asst:ao yo1 have increnced waar?
'i ja A T.lat's correct.
I 14 0 Id you hcvc increased tear, then the control rod 3 at soms point would bo insufficient to function properly; I
is that right? It .iould be at the point of increased wear? j 33 i A Eo. Tects hava shown that this searing is very, !
- 7 gg very small over ttu lifatine of a control rod.
Q Is it correc5, thcagh, that it t;culd tend to ;
99 20 waar that particular cpat where the gauge is thicker, down 21 moreso thnn spotn *./nere de friction is less?
l
! g A Thc9a correct. I i
i g ll Q N x1, whydidnopickths.300ofaninchthicknensl t
e-wi a on tha and of thoca b1cdo:3? ;
y y ', a Tant cms a rc e s arbitrary point picked by -
..s r -
f
.e w
5 2369 d2vid11 1 engineering because it was supported by testing.
2 0 What vould happen, may I ask j'ou, if they had 3' solect2d, fc.: instance, instand of .230,.400.
4 Obviously -- rx.y I inquire, would then the 1
5' blade nch frac':icn properly cn the control red?
3, A Well, it might; ca vould have had to have mada l
7ii the rod diffarent; the spacing betw.2en the fuel may have 8l had to have been different.
9 Ar.d wo nny have had to have put much more to ,
stringent rsquirements cc. the control rod. }
}
11 O Yca would hcVe had to expanded the space in I 12 between the fuul? ,
i 1
A That's a pocaibility, i 13 i 14 , O Tc acco:t:r.edate the different gauge?
j . i 15 ;
A Th at 's correct.
I I
0 on the blade. So there is a point ~ considering 16 j ,
l g ,. l you keep the fuel in the same position it is now - the l distancos between -- there is a point at which the gauge 9:3 39 in unaccepttbly thick.
on U P. Well, I don't hnow. We've never bean abic to j
-p ,
it ,
l' we uara z.ble to reduce the space between ;
y find that point; ;
U l 2., it the fuel to a dimonaion of .16 and still meet scran require. ment a
4 and that is with a ecntrol blade thicknees of .23. 4
.;;.> Q Well,. I cf2ecs .that I'm getting at in: ,
t:r-3ro hac ;
to be a poirb whors the blade is simply not going to fit a y
I 2370 david 12 certain thihness; the blade is not going to fit without y
adjusting tha other eler.cnts inside.
2 A That's correct. .
1 3
O And we acn't know what that -- what the.t thickness ;
4 1 I would he.
5 A Mo, we tested that to a point and than finally ,
b I gave up. We couldn't atcp the control rod. l, O So we just -- 1.hc lanin roason, I assuma, for the i
- l 280 gauge ir to reduca friction to the r.n::imum extent posofbiet.
6, A Nc, it is based on operational charactarictics ,
10 and not safcuv. - !
11 iTo are trying to minimize the friction so that f 12 l the control rod will last longer and will not have operaticnal:)
I 13 !
probleras. ;
I 14 In other wordc, this 150 pounds of. frictional i 15 i force that ua're trying to stay belcw affects normal .
10 -
jogging and newer chaping during I:rmal operation of the 5 t
17 i L station. l 16 I 0 What wculd be the probable result of that kind I 1S of jogging and povar shaking operation that you're trying f i
20 to avoid by reason of liraiting the amount of friction? ,
21 A I don't think I quito understood the question. f l j 22 i :
! Q I holieve what you said wa the renson you ,
j 25 - '
' wanted to he np tna rr.'.ct2.cn to a xninimum was to avoid what j M hl you en?.1 cperationa? pre.blems, which might include jogging
.05 N ,
- or shahing.
i-, rr
2371 A After you get -- after we get to approrimately david 13 1 2 150 pounds of friction, the control rod drive machanism will 3 no longer settle.into a latched position.
4 ;
In other words, after each motien of the 5
control rod after the power changes, you have to get into a i.
- i G
u notched position so the control rod is locked in that i
} I i position.
7 ,
I Q
What is wrong -- go ahead.
8 This is done by reducing friction; in other f 9i A ?
10 words, if ycu now have enough friction, it vill overcome !
11 niteraSon of moving parta. The control red -- you cannot l 5
This is an
' 12 have it settled into this notched position. :
1 operaticnal charactoristic, l 13 l
}
0 Well, ause. ming then for the sake of argument ,
1 14 13 ,
you';;c tryir.g to avaid .: hat operational characteristic Y of not settling properly in that position, what is the l; t.3 ,
likely result of that frilura cf thatred to settle properly 17 ,
4 1G in that pos?. tion?
g 4
Why are you trying to avoid that? i 19 A I don't underetand your "likely." l 20 : !
h 0 Well, I asstaa that what you'ra trying to do i m llT j is aveid the failura of the rod to settle prcperly in an ;
gg , !
Is that your 33 ;l cporational position by tec much friction. i 5
testirony? .
g3 !
1 '
oc i A Ti~.at's cecrsc :. .
- i'
', k D
2372 dovid14 1 O You're trying to avoid a certain aituation that
(
\-
l 2 you describad to :ce, l
i 3 My question to you is: why are you trying to
( 4 avoid that nituatica?
j!
5 A B. accuse it5c liable to continue to drift in 6 and you would doctroy tha' proper power shaping, and you'd 7 have a tendancy to shut down your reactor.
a C So what you'ra saying is that too much friction 9 under the circumstr.acca chat ua've been discussing for the 10 last five minutos could peasibly recult in a malfunction 11 of the cont:foi ro6.u the C vez.
12 A mill, it ' a not a ma'ccar of malfunction. Therod--f(
13 I mean, the control red drive cannot lock in its proper [
l 14 position ano, the control-rod uill -- will go on into the 15 core end ohnt that area down.
16 ,
O k- cprosed to, I assume, having complete control 7
17 ovor how unc:h eroa you wzmted to chut down;. you may not i
p3 want to shui; it detm ccrplettly. ;
39j And by rst.sen of this prob 1cm it uculd have a P
tendancy to shut it dcun antirely. [
10 I: i
- l. o A mell, no; you -- you havo to get into a little j 21l Y
p- il bit <,f nucitar physics ubcut het you try to power tape a 0.: i gg nuclear core to maka an afficient oparation. l il g,, J G WL11, I 6ca'E hacw --
Il
- y. E A If you ha u 2 :.cccli::ed area that i: just shut
- e. - q
2373 ( 1 dnvidl5 1 dcwn, it's -- you're not operating your reactor
. - 1 l 2 officiantly. You have pc.rt of it shut off.
3 0 I wouldn't want to get too much further into that i i
4 discussion. Bu~c I may assume it is your testimcuy that 5 the friction that nr.y be developed by e:tcascive thickness of 6 the cit:e cf the control rod io not ao:cathing which under 7 any ciretmstancas could contribute to a failure of tho 6 contrc2. reda to adep:atoly shutdown the reacter, s A That is right.,
to O Under no circurastances?
s' 11 A That's ccrrect.
MR. EEILE: IO.1 right, fine. Thank you. That'a l 12 1
13 all. :
1 CHAIIGIAN DECHHOEFEIt: At this stago, I think (
14
. I j
15 wo'll take a break.
i 24L BREUI!3R: I'm sorry, Mr., Bechhoefer, I only (
16 i
hoard the b cak pa::f:. l 37 sg CIITIIW BSCEECEF3Ia Our questions ccue up nort, ,
I 19 ana ---
Our questions come up next.,
k, 20 M .1, DP21EUR:
C'U.In1RN HEC 1sIOEFER: Oh, that 's ::ight. I j 21 i
' f think tsa'll tche a brcsk anyway, pg I
M1 IliENIGR: Okay. ;
g {e, .
si i't:i c f ::3 3 0 0 a ,)
- i
.]/h l.s. i end 14 ..
.c -
jb fis. ,
JWBeach I, 2374 015 a.
J s ,.L :J CH;.IFIAN ESCHE.L?En: Frc we ready to preceed?
I david 2
!14 n
- LY ME, EPE.NER:
3 C.
Mr. Fence,*(utt is the nominal spacing bet;;een 4 fuel am-xtblios?
I' d hava to doub,.,,e,.mw.i: e.c w at (witn.:cs %nce 5 3, 6 k: nuidar. I think it'n .46 i 7 'P aus . . ) t i)
.i j 562.
Bi Cha nceiten1 dimancion is .
l l !
9 ', G ok?.7, and 4(ant's thu neminal - now this is tha Io that j i
10 l space ot.t;mm thdch a bicao cf a ccatrol red fitc
^
,i t, i t
ti correct'. i c, t ,..u.,..u.. r . .. c .,.....
. ,, u
., e..
12 1 j
Lud td:at' .: the nominal width of that blads?
i 13 ! G It bcc on; arc.: - the thickness i.; .20, and l 14 ' A. f, c
15 !t there i. ono sddition 21 cralo:.w. roeruiret.ncat ' hat in tha -
.i e
- de nit c f str 2'.gl.tns. . 3 th c; ie . 22. -
t!
i 16 'l g a
hI C'..'I.*C C Er 3 Dh D n'Jatb OE S b y *.Nid.C21 T. .D.n'3 i . COT 0 0 i.
Q !
I i for the 1.nitial acceptanca critcric :
4
, you derive tha crage: >
1 6 (i. . li 19l inopsch. car is ti.at arrc.::?
I i il g 4, ,.v.u.,
...,4.-
t c m~ . ..y..c u. .-
t m
c,
.J t f
Oi th cc .:rol Ocds that werc accept,2d fu.-
21 ; .
O.
r 4 '.9ha7'u the ,.
I Zi2~~u -fr a ":!st' s ti e "' deat .igh spet, or bnieja? !
?.2i. ) .,
1 t, u
,p I
.y , 3.4. 3. . c4.... g g.? < .%...!.-.
a
-r ' .g rg.-
e ..-A-.,, ,
. +:-. . .u. m.a.ha
{.p... ;
I. .
-4g .g :,. <..a
.s v v.. . 7.e,3. ,
't . ;
,, >1 .
_,4 1 JJ
- , .: d
- s.
- .' . .' 4 4.":-
3 '* N'.H.. .-1*.eg 4 .;#.
t . -
73,. ; ,
..a
,g u r..
. s. . . ' .N. .. .f
<i l
5-2 jwb 2375 i
i i' G Withoun cicaping.
2 A O!:cy, befcre alcapie.y I have on hort.1E that it's 3 .296.
4 G Anc. the.t is tnc 'aigh.act?
e a
1 5 ; 2. 7. Cn't ti-J.nk I can really say that, 're::ance I 6i don't knc:t df sorte of the other high spots that :tcy have s
7 i been -r:trencly 31rc:f T.a ma r h:;72 pacccd during thO initial a ! incpection W:cra a c1: rip v,:.e put ne::t to that spot, and i.
9 ! then that high cpot vac rec.oved. I don't know uhcb those i ,4
,- i 10 i high cpoca really waro.
didn't take cchual macx.renants :
11 if the clemping removed it 2nd the gutge fit right back over 12 it, or if tha micront :cr ta.3 by.lcu .200. ;
i 13 G Lat me cc3 if I und.aratand that. You'ra saying +
1 d .:
.-. that the c mre sciac ': hat ny h37/e been inspected onl*.r with .
gg ! the c.;1c ag on? In thch c0r.csct?
I a .
A Va.1 '
ycu ":an 'c he g:Inc.a by, and if you have a I
t o .; high spot tint's indic.aMd by the gucco, then the firsc n
g chay?
18 approach is te put tha c1:mp nact to the high spot,
.;g pi Now the high cpot ic ti2sn aithcr nancured by the ginge or j af j
-g- f the mic- sct :r, and la mesu cacen that high spot i; not l
3 ji meascred '.cy the niercuat2: cofere you put the gnago -- I d
h mean the cicni. ca ne:r': t3 i ': . So you really wouldn't 2 i. r q i
..on zaa hazora tha': c.tc=; eaz put.
.,k okno.: wha: eua m uc1 cim:
, ,7
+
3 11 4-l .
o*
is On. .
s .!+ \
I i
. . .-f.,.,..
. . .;; * '. n .n
\. .s.'
. = /2 A.**
- - e~M'*-
r,** n -~' ****p***
-- a -} ath* ~~ " ' * ** y ? E .**
., O..
....i<
, .. sap .s s. .- >a
}
..u. y .
a i
1
. . . . .. . . ---.- - - - ~ . - - - --- -
a-3 jwb 2376 I failing 1:cic1r to eset the .280 guage criteria, you f
2 testifie" that the high spot for that was about .307. Is 3 that correct?
4
- A. That's correct.
5 B You catai s.t th:.t point they were abovo -- it S, had lect its ifleribility. In that correct?
I 7 f E. Thr.t's right, tacause it ucs right out on the 3 edgs of the wing, and'thors was a dent on the ottside, so 3 that it mada e. very rigid apot right there.
f 10 g Is it :;oscible that any of the rods acccpted had if I a high si;ot greatar than c'; cut .33?
~
12 A. (Witue3c I:enanc.a) ': 10, no.
13 .
Q. Ecw do y:n knov tlut?
- 1. .
t' i
,. 14 n. Tht. 320 gr.nge r:assed over all of the rods that 15 we accr.p^.sd.
10 G Ws11, ~:cok to Ev. Ponce.
17 f The pechlc is hhat, It, Pc"1:3, you told na that ,
I ta ' ' you didn t m3acura all of thsm.
i You might Invc had some
!D ,
that were M v:ible, and thasfera you couldn't tall .ne that
.I 2.0 l the .2EG tras the high opet. Cc=cet?
l 21 I a. (Wihnosa Fenes} This nunber that I ascd, .296, l i
1 22 is one t. tat mu'.d not - 3 :..a high spot wccid not ha recoved S ..! by the initial clunpius" t < imi?20 and that was 'cik'an up i i i 34 j or. taa FMP.. Ihad 0 che c'i..y r3ason I ~21ric that ambsc j
?
.3j availatl , ha EGa . h ;rni . Larud.
o 9
r i
2377
-4 jeb I C, Z inderstand. ~4 hat I'm t::ying to fic.d cut is, 2 in the absenca of direct measurements, is it po wible for 3 you to h:cid viat the high spot night have Scan for those 4 reds that wera acceptad, i.t the abosnce of cicaping? The I 6 nnte;cr I suggests d fer ths 1enna vac .33. t
,s !
3, S '. A I .Jaccc yea ce7.16 cay that beenuse of tim 7 !,. strai:htnea.3 gam. zirsar : I the other straivhtness g.aga !
)
8} has an enIdopa re.I2iroient of .32, and all af the, parts 9 pansec. :h t c inoria. an if diet.' did not wa asnt thc1 bcck.
e, 10 i, 0 Tn2nh you.
11 ,lf ..
Fo tar.ked aboe: the no.v.inal thichnsas of tha l' In thcra any part of that blada designed 12 ! bladc haing .2^6 i
13 .t. to be thic%Sr the.n that in c fual ascs.able ch m .sl that -
t i !
14 :
n wenid p:-.ct:n6s into the fr.11 cccombly channel? i 1 Well, the rol.#Lu: arans are leger 4-l:2n that.
15 ]
t 9 All right, whera ara the roller e.ce.c?
1Gh. .
17 ll A.
S e rolleri; ara ct the handlt, which ia at the I
f6 I i top. i t
13 M 0 Trat:a tha -
h i %. 'u."..* .d *_.~ ve. h. ...tv. 1.4 '. ".. .
- 3. - S c 'A t
'O ,i.
I' Of tho rollerc - - are thesa calicd "c.pger guide ,
i 21 C.
mu u pa .,...z a.n o
,,, ,1
- u. , u- ,. c., u n. .r .e.s .a..4. , r. . . . .,
... .. . .u .cu .
M10.t ;
I. I" a nt.t - I d...nh thoso are .ile enc % ,
23h. 8
. . . e
- " . 9 . ,e
. e .
. ed. e la e s # ' ow es e . / i 4"
J .e 4.' /
,. n I % Str. 1.u OOntrO1 e
4
'~
~3 3 '". up c.. Dh f .i'.l O t.u b C
...?.,
202.'>.64:3 64 6
e f
. . . = . . . . . - . . . - .
2373
~5 jwd I rod. l I
7-
, G A1.1 right, what uould tha dimanciona of tho l I .
I 1 3 rollers he?
4 g ,1.hr t's . M'.
5 pie 333 let ma j;.ublecheck the.t. I'm not really
]
6 .I1 sure whocher that diir.sncicrr is the roller at the top, or 7 whether that'c che reller nt tha velocity limiecr.
8 0 Ths cna I'm esting about is the onc at the top. t 9 I (M.uco.) <>
t I.
10 L H 3bo, for timd s rahe, I'll havo comchedy {.
I 11 doublechack tiat for von, es I can maka cure that th:t I
12 " . 40" is the correct 'inma ;ar. I'm pratty anre it ia, but 13 I'd rather chcck that thin ': o ateko en e- ror.
I 14 l G cao moment, he e.u:30 I have ccme folicuup l.
g l; 15 g question.s dcp maing on 9:hr- the 6.imousion.13. I ii If the Bea-d pleaca, the staff of
- S l MP. COTdEn:
1 all pacple chnuld kn w. -cou knew, thic ic in the 27 ,! I d
Why can't i 10 t. application 22:d inaputier ::or. orts, I supposa.
10 ll the at".di cimply give uc c. reference, and 1at*a speO:1 th:.s t i.
8 '
h i
Cp ,i 20 d. s
+
i i
3 _ - .. ,. . , :
.c:.n , cu:auw. .ai.
c ccconc, Mr. .,.m..Iman .
' Th,s -
21 ? i t i
- t 2?, d is mj nocc-a zminatiun a d ho s the erpert wituscs and 2 j s
I'm aaxinc hi: the . e:cti x. . I'D not asking myacli the !
p.3 l .!
- I (I '
24 d. questi ES- ~
a >
'l LO , OC'.iSN. 1 NJc; 2 Cord *,"i10306, S ': 'elI * $f;.
m
~-6 jwb 2379 1 should Fave v:ked thin on discovsry, if they don't 2
have it, instead of now hwing to dolc.y the thing and 3; having the ui 2:acass : unn!.. q around Icohing for numbers.
4 It could have been ached , lot earlier. It is inprcpar !
5< and certainly sctothing t' at thculd hs.ve been cavored under s i t- ;
dicc v.ny. Rt. Brennar c. :baialy knews bottar.
Gi !}A I t
7j Im , EEEIG2R: Firsi of all, the witneza and I t 4
E woro gettinc. along fine up to this point. !
9h EOdidtc that, it it cartainly propor creac- e I
a 10 ,
e::aninatio.h :. thinh, to i.pgairo into tin dismt : iunn of f 21 j the control reds. Wye .zaan talking -- that'r what the ,
I l
12 contention i.s all c?> nit, r:iS the only way to got it on the .
t I
li reccra, rhothar I kna' it cr not, is by quection: cnd l
I- >
14 h9 anstrora . !.
b, i 15 [ RJ;7 if Mr. COnnJ:r Ucnbc tc let c3 at?.nd up cnd ii I '
i 16 [ maka a opcuch chunt -d.c c::::e ac.'.ons, I've got a lot of {
[.. t p]. 1 nur.raers I cal rai:tle of2, but that's not the way the gr.a I
I is played.
- o, L2.. CO2mr.
- 'I : can .u ko ycur snaach sittina -
i t
down, as ycu ,uct J did 20 h 21 CEM202! Di:CEE374: Objection ovGrrulea r 12
- m. thera tes m: objsati+a. ,
i
- i. '
t p f L .ughter ;
.~a ,
I L, ,.3. . h. . .. c; . f g, _
.. t! ,
- e. .e i o .
'I
2380
. ~1 ].WD 1 --
- z. v 7... r. . .
r.e..p~ n1L e... .
' ft. lir , PONCE! , ic *.3 pCSGih1G thlh the.t di3Gn:3 ion
- is .3337 4 n trAitnoss Ponce) I do not know for sure, het I 5 can check tha: cut, but I .'cn t knew for cura. .
i j
Gt o
p, could ycu che.ch it new, if I were to unit?
-' s .r. . u..v.s .. , c. ,
e n. ... .
S' O.
Ok ay ,
- irk ycu . I'll wait.
9 (tGizess 3 - con 9 rring.)
IC . t IDiscucci;n ofi! the rccer:2.)
- l '
11 ~
i 15.'!NEFS S.dICIh ' Ion s.ro correct on that 22 dimencicn. I: it . 3 33 t'.c :ints: . 'I P
j' i
,,. , .. R . ,. a.s...tm.c. m P.:
13 ,i. t:. . ef il
- g. 7.01: Iae n o.'c2 c u r.:
I understand this, be:w;cno it's j MI. i (d kind c.? surpr'.cir.g t: go this lets into the dd.y e:td honr it ;
I IS .j l i, l, co understand t.aat there'.2 ic .in- for tha 'dirat tin:a, * .it r?.t I I
3 cctually n . art of .2 2.h c':atrol rod blade that :.n &cigned {'I p* nij i
) j to pecirrade , 3r desigaca h2 ba wider in tho gap h.t can
- l i
is ((i (
Is I fuci acusebli3c th e. it.he hulgas in the ccatrol rci blada -
I l unmodire.ed by-thn p1 tat?
t
.o i 1 t
t.
- 3. (WiDOSC L Oncti ) 'fhat'S Corr 3Ct. g 4
- 2) 8 i
l a
-( UN'b[t i thb).' bUlhbbp Or thh rdd3 hhEt w$rO h
4 n0 CO})tSt. r Uer! nc h .f.iDSii.9, GVo?
if yOu UGrCn O r? lying f
$ 3
.. * .p%
- d
.. 44 T ,*#.
a vS.q g
.a. ,. e, .u.
4., .,
e
..g.6* f p* . FS =*..g
.> . ..v /.1 ).. f. ."9. u,i 7..,., e' web.d ... . .
j j: ..
h t.
- 9 9 ,.t . .. -
J e ,. '.a li .'y :. g i .'. 3 83e .>.. e.g o* =.m...).1
... 4 7
.ai, z. +7.
. .w
.= r h.m**.3, J. -
s.v p s._n ,
g 1.m,., ==.y.*.r ,. .m..
.T. .
,. .,. N4 J .'
- - .: ..-a -.--:------+- ., - _- . _ . . - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
T 2381
-8 jwb 9
e Is that corrsat?
2 A That's ca.: rect, assi.Iming that svarything is 3 perfectly clicinea.
4 G All right, supuse - to get to the quastion of I' hou you developOd the .200 criginal acceptanca critsric for 6 ,
the gunga?
4i j
.1 Ch-st tras c. re: ult of a lot of argnnsnt beteraca E' cuginea:ing n.id manr2nctu:.T.ng as to what they could make i 9 cnd what thay cceldn'u n2%e, but it ;m.d a rathtr arbitrary 10 pcint that tru cclectzd es a result of a significs.nt enount i
i 11 of touting. 4, 12 g It was retyar ix.cnf.cd that a b2.ade that erceeded 13 that wcn16 he'Je to ba roj uted. Is that correct? I f 2. Tint'c corrsch.
?.1 ;
f j i 15 t (f.
I.s this hind e? an early-warning defrica cuch that son.icody's cttan : ion t;ou?.d ba drawn to a red thtt 16 Ph 17 h did:1't rcet t'mt apacificmion for furthur checking?
s'I
!O l? A Th it' c co7 rcc:t .
- l
!gI B P.nr1 that's whc3 tha further stapa of the
\.1
- N [. .,
procedures r2 :e deciIntd ho do? :
i p
I A Th:.lt's right. i m j(o}
'i IIc 3 dcrc'; :he ucicction of 40-ocund clano? 'dct7
-e 1.s Q.
4 ?
r.. 9u rac tha R c'md: E.r: 1.ved - .t? ,
e 11 il*
b h
.. .t ti'M ..f. U. ci '.3 "It WhiOh hhG normal UI'.VincOG ,
1
- ?. :<
a i:
he rOrsOVOd UithCut 00'l:?$.AU any 3 that ' $ .tn - d'.3 Nd. it'J !Cid
, 1
'e
i 2382
-9 jwb 1 plastic cr p2 manent dsforn.ation to the checth itssif, and A would not cau: o any dr.mtgc to the abscrber tubes undarneath 3 the sheath. 'Jhis ur the actt:al number itself tias rather 4 arbitrary a 9, int. In et' r words, probably 55 pcunde may 5i have been just ?.s gec6 a number, and 45 may hava cleo hoen G.j just es good v. number.
7' O.
I unnted to be sure that it wasn't so strorg a
t ,,
that it nccos . up the verf rce.! you were testing. Ic that 8 '-
9 correct?
A, That e co::7ect. We did not want it to do any j
10 j t
11 permanant drm.ge of nny tyga. I 12 ,j 0 An:2 anothm: panneter I suppose which 13 !
Dr. :Tankhancer was ntf:ing nbout aca, you would went to make sure thr.t the procon: in the cim7 was not granter 14 15 than the presuure thnt vor.id ha encountered in the ranctor, {
Is 16 assuming you need:ed -he .200 cc a specific tolerance. 1 17 that corr 2ct?
- 3 3. That"s correct. I 10 In othar N3rde, Us triOd te minimics this nur.. hor !
20 co that it di41 nch iiriring2 en the operational margin that t -
23 we had. i I
b lind the c.;aratt.>nni FIesc't.*ce in the reacte" F.2 j! B ,
d 11 would ha granuar than 40 .runds? "Yes" or "na." f
- 3 [ 1, i
e, l
- n. . .Ca
- +
,N g i 44 11 C. U: do s e era: crn ..t t'r.t, in scn:e _Tenutienc l 9 3 h,, m
- s 11
't
2383 15-10 jwb I and answers dout the conversions of friction and prascure 4
- e,nd no forth?
A.
Well, if you a:;ks the acsumption that you have
-- in other wordo, whcre you 4 a worst frictzen condi.tior 5 have a friction factc;; cf ene, in othar worda uu hav3 no notion whatsonvcr, that ras:.nc you would have n ncrmal 6{!
scre way the c1 crap would be pushing, 7 force -- or a force th2 8 of 150 pounds.
S Cf course in I.t..ist cnsoc, that friction fs.ctor approrinately .3 to .7, so SC is semeuhare betwcen eitha 11 it vould have a value som.2hing higher than 150 pounds for i g i 12 most cases.
I 13 G Eigher?
A. Yes. In citer acuds, it uculd tai:e a forcs 14 ,
1
> force
, between the control red c::4 the fuel handle of *a 15 [d of vertieni j greater than .'.50 pounds to generate ISO poundt i l
16 t{
friction.
17 [
i G
In discussir.g M.e dimcusiens se far, that a 18 ll i
}
i to t:
a quick c:.lculation ~ if ycz~11 b2cr with me, I took you !
1 2007. assichlice, and the neninal thickncas 10 l . .562 between uh2 :
il I hope I did that i af ij4 of the wing, .2f?0, and cru ved at .282.
i i
l d
correctly. I thsn diz.i6ed tk t in hcif to arriva at what f j
end IG 015 22 23 f,d I would call 'ie gap hattu in the blade and tho fuel !
devid 16 ij fcl8 g,3 y assemblies. *iculd tb+ b . c c.orrect r.recedero fm. raa to :
i 2,ND b
- t pdN 'W fe. ...oW if Z W
- :nt?1 that 'J/ ~:DQ:7
~
l e v v.t
.Je sa 9
.i.
. ~-m-,
2384 AR 16-1 1 0 All right. By the procosa, I arrived at a 2 nominal gap of .141, to talk about uhat I would call 3
the standard condition, quote, unquoto, at the blado.
4 Now if I wantad to arrive at the gap in torna 5
of calculating what I call the uppor guide rollerc 6
clearance, I would cocencarly do the calculation of 7
subtracting .33 frcm .562 and dividing that in half; ia {
g that correct?
A That's correct.
9 jo Q For the roco.ed, so I can find this in'my 93 findinga latar, I believe that's approximately .1145.
12 At what miniuum gap will tha drive -- control rod drive 13 first show s:*.gns of operational difficulties' ITow we've: de.+31ned gap tho way we've boon g4 using it in ny fcundation.
15 16 A I gnoso I also have to ach ghat kind of g
operational difficulty aus you reforring to, 4 O Woll, I gue'oc thare is always a continuum,
- g 4 gg The first kind of difficulty you might encountar,, which I suppose would oo need to incronce your nydraulic force !
i 20 over the standard in order to insert the rod, j g ,
i
. A I:n trying ta con if I have that number t Z, i i
readily avail.cSle. .
25 !
11 C?auss. )
~ 2i> 1; it This char.ge :.1 I gusos you would cay it's a
.a r
_ y 2385 16-2 I point at which thencrmal condition starts to change at a That's at the midapan 2 gap of appro::imately .235 inches.
3 of the fuel channel.
4 0 I'm confuned, nayba we'ro using the gap 5 somewhat dif ferently.
i 6 g gem sorry, I juct realised that. That.is I
7 'the total spt ce in hatw. an the fuel bundles, so that 8 would be the total that you'd be subtracting, either 9 your roller diamator er your thickncan of your blade to from, and dividing that in half.
11 Q But if we can walk through that, let's do it 12 now. .2S5 is the space in between the fuel bundlos, without takir:g account of the control roda; is that la 1,4 correct?
15 A That's correcto 16 Q Tha width of the control rod is still .200; 17 is that correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q Se a total differenco of .005, which would 20 translate into a gap of ,0025; is that correct?
21 A That'c right, asnuning, of course, everything 22 < is straight.
Q If I vaan' t preciso as an engineer -- and I'll; 25 n4 toll you 2'm not -- can 7. en11 that gap occentially zero?
y5 A Yes, for practical purpocos, that's cyproximatelj
[ i 0
x t
.4 '*
2336 cr3 1
.the thicknene of a piece of paper.
2 O
This is a gap of casentially =cro, the control 3
rod would still incert?
4 Y(u, it would3 A
5 0 Wculd the difficulty you might oncountor at bc a failure to cettle, which you discuscod 6
thct point 7
previously?
8 A Ec, that's only a point at which we can note 9 that it changos, frcm ius normal operation.
10 0 By the way, theco numbers that you have, ic 11 that the rastlt of tasta that General Elontric has run?
IF~
A Yea, it is.
13 Q
L*c the tactc havo a name, a nano and series?
' can you identify thom in sons way, as hou you arrived at what you might call theUT IO i 16 A Mc11, those . ire actually called -- the I i
17 title on thic report is " Thin control Rod Outlification ;
i l
- Test." :
l
- 9 0 can you toll mo ~- was there a readily f
"O l identifiablo -~ I r '
r A T13 raport wna actually issued in Pehruary of I oo 1975. I don't thinh I inva any information hora that 23 would indicato if thera nac any significant time from
!i Mllthepointihichthetoatvcarununtilthereportwas I
E !!ti written., hat I f.on'i. th:i:2 f.t eaa a signi:licant -- maybe l .
. _ _ _ . . . -_ - - 1 2387 cr4 I a few months.
2 Q Ic it a GE raport?
3 '
A Correct.
4 Q Does it have a wonderful GE number?
5 A Yoc, it doese 3S4HA280 6 Q Does it have a prefix?
.7 A No, it doec not.
-8 Q One'of these anya I'm going to ask a witness 9 how they got their numbarr.
to Would it be correct that a concora we would bo 11 most likely to consider the most sericus.c.n terms of 12 clearanac in those capc he the point at u$ich you'd !
13 have scramming problems?
That's rightt That's where a cafety considora-14 A 15 tion is concerned.
16 Q At wha't -- I'll usa gap the same way, if 17 necessary we ccn convert the numbers if you have it Mac acramming problems first 18 expressed differently.
19 j.noted in your test corias?
i 20 A Well, we never waro able to got the spacing 21 small enough that we wero able to make it so tl:at wo i I
22 would meet scram perform uco under operating conditionc.
I I think thoro * = a point at which us cen i 23h I'll j 24It[ notice the -- a chcr.go in ceram times, I think. '
l.
gn ( do a little acccching here to find that. <
n
2388 er5 I Q Lat me ace if I can help.
2 Part of thic may have been asked and 3 answered. i 4 You gave an answcr earlier to a question 5 aaying that a space of .,16 wonid give you --
6 A This was the point at which we stopped 1 7 testing, under which ue reduced the = pacing to that point 8 of .16, and at thin point we could still meet ceram 9 toch spec requiremento,*.;hich I believs is five seconds to in this particular plant, at operating power.
11 Q okay. But t::anslate that numbor. .16 is 12 the space between cno fuel assembi~ics; correct?
G A Correct.
14 Q The width betiteen theblades is otill .280; 15 correct?
16 A Correct.
I 17 0. Giva no a cecond on this ona, becauca negativo 18 numbers always give mo como trouble.
19 (Pause.} l a nogative .120; j 20 Check mo on thia. I .get
~
21 is that correct?
i 1
22 A That sounds right. l 23 Q That's still act a gap, by my definition, ;
i Si becauce then I have to d.'. vide by tuc in order to got l
is that l 25[thespacebc<:veantiob:.1dcandtheansambly; N
e .
A
_ _ _ _ _ . . . ...m. _
2389 ;
ar6 I correct?
2 A Yes , which doosn' t e:tist.
I guess that:c true also. I guona gr.p is a 3 Q 4 minnomer.
i gn 35 3e c.c. , the clearance, if we can motn-5 un clearance, would have to be .
6 physically think of that and you etill did not orporionce 7 down to a minus 06g G failure to ceram within the requiromonte under the proto !
9 type tacting; is that correct?
10 A That's correct.
11 u I don't want to play with the nunbors,but if to it, we'd end up with j 12 I adde'd tho upper guida cells i f
e I 13 oven a larger number, negative number; is that correct? I i
That's righ% i 14 A I 15 Q The prototype teet did have a number?
A Yes, it did.'
16 t j
0 Ec is the p:fototype tost applicable to 17 f
Zinmar?
The same control rods, tho cane specificationa !
1a 19 as you would find in a reactor like Simmer? !
i l
A correct. In 22ct, it waa one of the firct 20 I 21 production control rode that wo built of that typo. ;
i l
l O
You deactually have it inctalled within a
.22 i
i 23 f reactor to run these techo?
It is not!
i
- M [
i A T1.is is lasta11ed in a tsat vascol. ,
3= ( nuclearly hected, it ie electricelly beated, but othor a
i
2390 cr7 I than that, it has all the same operational char:ctoristics; 2 temperatura, water presacre,et cetera.
3 Lc6o see what we've got so far. W3've got Q
4 the prototypo tent that gives you the knowledge no to 5 all the numboro; is that correct?
6 A Correcto 7 o wo ve also get the test for the gauges which e
8 are set at numbers theit did not ri.se to the point of 9 giving problems in the prototype testing; is that corroct?'
to A Correct.
11 Q Beyond that, are there any plane to perform i
12 tests of the Zimmer control rods?
13 A Woll, you'll do the pre-operational test.
14 In other words, before you start up your plant, you have 15 to do fricti >n testing and things of thafd natura on is your control rod drivo nyotom, which will include the j
17 control rod. ,
l
~
Q Will auch a tout show if there are any 18 19 operational difficultics such no b#.nding or rubbing I, 20 between the duel channol and control bindes? , j 21 I A You a it willo 0 How will thet show up?
22 23 A Wolla YOC'r0 4cing to got an increano in I
+
24 I
- ! your drivo p
- :ssauro frcn normal conditions, and cloo to hara f t:iction that's high anough, gg p if you happe:t ;
n e s
2391 or8 .
I your lack of settle alarm will go off.
2 In other words, there is a limitation that 3 the drive han to sattle into a notch within eight accends 4 from initiation to signal until an alarm goes off.
5 g- An I undarctand it, you will notice the 6 difference in pressure before you rine to thopoint of 7 having the settle probins; is that correct?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q Do you have en acceptance criteria established 10 that the ten ders would icnew when they should do something 11 further?
12 A We've boon working on an acceptance critoria. l It varice 13 The exact number yet we haven't settled on.
14 somewhero betwson, val 1# like the normal driving prescura 15 condition is approximately 70 to 75 times'por aquare 16- inch, and our liniting condition will be somewherc 17 120 and 150 pounds par ~ square incho is Q
'a I feaching the acceptanca critoria with 19 respect to praasuro ragardless of what armber you arrive 20 at, what will be the cenoiderations in choosing that 5 21 number?
22 A Well, it's trying to find a preocurs at 23 g which the ccatrol rad trill net settle and the control 24 ,
rod drive actually will not achtle into its notch ;
i 3s 4
under a miniaum drive proccure condition, and so thnt i
7 cr9 2392 1
gets a little bit confusing, but it's a mininun of'the 2 maximum driva pressure condition.
3 O chio is delta pressure wo are talking about?
4 A In roclity, it is not, because under --
5 the vessel in at zero ptossure, so you have tho otatic 6 pressura of ':ho water ao a delta effect, but for cl1 7 practical purposes, it's a direct pressure underneath l
8 the piston od the driveo 9 Q What I'm confused on is you told me that 10 the problem with the pronsuro will show up baforo you 11 get a failure to settlo, and then you told ne that 1
12 the acceptance critoria would be not at around that 13 point of havf.ng the failure to settle.
14 Mow, that's not inconsictent, necessarily, 4
1 15 but have I summariscd your tactimony correctly?
16 A I think'that's right. In other words, 17 there's no intente I think, to having a significant 18 margin botveen as acceptance limit that sayo you may be gg near-tha -- the no settle condition, because that 20 would probably be a mininum type of a number for most i 21 Practical, and for aimcat all practioni piocca, the 22 actual no settle pressuro would ba higher than that.
23 Q So far we'vc heon talking about pre-24 ioperational tonting; is that correct?
I 33p A n:.ght. ;
A !
i
cr10 2393 1
Q Of courco, wo talked about all the other 2 testing beyond all that. Are there any other tects that 3 will be performed during the life of the facility that 4 would indicate any difficultias such as binding or rubbing S or any difficultice with respect to insertion of the G control rods?
7 A Wall, you always have to do your scram 8 testing before you start a reactor back up during any 9 shutdown. i 10 You also hava what is re'Jerred to as a notch 11 test. I think this is a weekly basis, each control rod 12 has to be jogged once each week to maka sura that it ia US free in motion.
14 0 You testified -- let me take you back to the 15 point just p::ior to shipnont of thoso control rod 16 assemblico to Zimmer fron Cincinnati Gac & Electric.
17 You tontifibi that the .200 gauge tact was 18 performed at the, point of chipmentsin that correct?
19 A That's correct.
20 0 All those control rods passed -- all the 21 control rodo that woro chippod passed that test?
~
22 A I think I have to ask you to clarfy that a 23 little bit.
24 ];l T.n other words, the thickness gaugo itcoif I
43 ', plus the una of the famous clamp that we have, it passed, b
a 0
2394 cril i that tast, 2' O All right, Aro you telling no that tho 3 clamping procedura had to be passed?
- A Yes, that*a part of our normal inopoetion 5 proceduro.
6 0 Did you havs records that indicate which l
1 rods the clamping proceduro had to be applied to in :
8 order to pass the .300 gauge tact at the point of chip ~
9 mont?
10 A I don't boliave 30, II O ifauldn't that bo kind of a good idna, so you ,
i 12 could match up tho tact at the point of shinmont with ;
13 the test at the point of arrival? !
Ob3 action, your Honor, Counsol'u:
14 I!E. CONNERc speculation, while intercatinge is not relavant and 15 cartabir dooc not recuire any answer from tha witnesa.
16 17 MF. . BRENH2R:
I'd like to finich my questien, ; ;
16 first of all.
IS L Secondly of all, on the theory that they .,
f 20 will put the onmo c'cjection, anyway. That is relevants .
There wac i 21 b thiu witnesa is an saport in tho anon.
i 22 i
sono tecaimony by the wi3noccos au to what might have
!l, !
23
' occurred or night not ha'Io ecourred during the shipmont. :
i l
?/ 1'f.
I'm getting n4 a way in which in the future i-2d n 0; wo might bo :.blo to idenSify what the proximate caunc :.s. '
e J
4
cr12 2395 1 MR. COUWER: Objection, your Honor, this whole 2 line as identified, Mr. 3renner now seems to accumo 3 that becauco a bulge exista, something in wrong. Tho 4 witness has clearly tectified that those roda ~~ the 5 blades, winge on those roda and so forth, are designed 6 to be flexible, and thin is a normal conditica. I 7 Mr. Dronnor 4.s now niccharactorizing the l 8 tostimony.
9 MR. BR3HP3R: I opent the isst 25 minutes to showing 4'.'o not wrong, which could have boon put in 11 the d , testimony.
12 (Board confar::ing.)
I gi CHERMAN EECHNOEFER: I think it'a relovant.
14 Objection overruled.
15 S'.: MR. BREHH3R:
0 Lot no rephrano it.
16 37
- End you conaidered a proceduro by which g3 you would identify the raculta of the expancion and l jg testing at the point of shipment nimilar -- strike that.
20
-" And again identify tho specifio rods and 21 hev they did on the inspaction at point oc arrival, by \
22 which procean you wculd bo abic to detormino whether g3 thora were any changee au a result of transportation?
g[l A I'm cura that this was hicked around como, ;
9 fact that if thero una como damagn !
. f.-
gbutweknewthatthe,
~' noma place, trying to, 7nu might cay, ategorir.a that ,
~ - --
2396 cr13 1 damage or expect it to be a reoccurring thing, we really 2 didn't think we would encounter that.
3 0 Well, you had 86 out of 137 control rods 4 that didn't paus the acasptance criteria at the point i
5l of arrival; .c that corract?
6 A Ma, we had cix that didn't pass.
7 0 Now I add tha acceptancs criteth, the 8 criginal acceptance crihe:in.
Objection, yocr Sonor. The M11. CONIUsR2 s .
10 witness is nou -- counost is now arguing with the d spaak for itself. Thic has ti ef.tness. Le1 the recor 12 been as'ted and anmcored and been through by almost every 13 councal, and new Mr. Bronner is arguing with the witness 1,3 about what hi said.
I T la recc::d t:ill speak for itceif.
15 1
'i E.1. DRE13NEP.:
I think the witness tras going gg so g7 to give me his daff.nitica of accaptanca criterin, we can ccant:sicato with each cthor in the folicuing i
gg gg questions.
20 ,
END LC 3.4..
M 23 I
24 k a
) t 7c: i
~~ n I s !
i it '
s
2397 MR. comer: Mr. Bronner is betting on how he 7 david 1 davidl 2 readu the --
taka 17 3 MR. BRSmiER: Ect you a dollar that's uhat he was fla ar 4 going to say.
5 (Laughtcr.)
MR. CONNER: 'Icu got a dollar?
6 MR. BRamER: My witasso hara --
7 8 MR. CONZER: And, by the way, we'd be happy to 9
have Mr. Bronner help tomorrow, even coach.
MR. BIEmER: ll ask a new quection if that 10 11 will tenke it easier for ovarybody.
CHAIFJLVI SECHEOEFER: Why don't you try 12 13 rephracing tiis.
E'l ,d. BP5NNE?.:
]A 0 When I say *bitial acceptance critoria," I 15 do not mean tha scno co your " final acceptan=c criteria."
16
't g7 I mean -)ust the recult of the initial checking with the
.280 and .3.0 1 inch ganga.
18 f
' 0::cy, Mr. Penca, do you underdand how I'm using 99 i 2C, the term?
A (Ultness P6ccd Ohuy.
21 Q A the pu.4.ut of arrival at Zimmer, 10 it'not true g
that 86 out of 137 control reda did not pass that ' initial g
acceptanra oritoria an .antience in those tuo cauen?
,, ij u
n j
d -
y i! A T: tat's corrcch. l
2390 1
O In that the approxix. ate samm nurbar that didn't david 2 2 l
pass that same test at the point of shipment?
3 A. I unfortmatoly dca't know that.
4 O Anybody who waald know?
i 5
MR. COEN3R: Objection, yo're Honor. This was S' Ucw he's arguing with the wituccc asked and answered.
7 again.
8 M2. SREUNER: ItSc the first time I acked that O.'
questicn.
TO MR. CONUER: Perheps somebody elco did, onc of 11 the intervano.::s.
12 CEAIRMAN BE03~10DFER: I can't recc31uhother it
- ~- it anyuay,
! was asked, but I think the witncsc may answc.:
14 ,
i if ha kncws. .
15 I To my knor: ledge, 2 oco::dc are not CTN355 PENCS:
.I le !
l- kept of control rods cr which con'rol rcds those cismps vera j t
17 1 4 used on at the factory.
13 I think the reasen for thic ia it's part of tho ;
l 19 j normal inspaction procedure. l f
20 ll BY MR. BPINN2n; i
Your 22:pedation banza upon whaty'ou
- 92 {,
4:
O Ohay.
l, PJ.j aaid about the likelihocd of cortain f:cago cccurring during i i
n Li transporaticn and t..c fact that the aamo tosts are performed x~ it; at the point c2 shi.cr.cnt and at the peint of arrival, that t
,= < I there v. ara c.cca nr.iar of thcae rods that failsd t' lie initial
._ _ y.
2399 david 3 1 gaugo check without being clamped at the point of shipment.
2 A I'm not sure I totally understood that question:
3 caid you give it to me ngain.
4 0 You testifica carlier that many of thcae bulgno --
5 I'm talking about danting now -- are not tho type of thing 6
that would have beon caused by abnormalition or whatover is that 7
during trancportation becauce they were " normal";
8 corract?
9 A T':at's correct.
0 Given that, would you e:cpect that somo nunber of 10 these Ziraer control rcSc that we've been talking about 11 failed the initial gango checks without being clanped at
- 12 )
I the point oJ shipraent for En tests G3 wouldhave performed 13 before they sent them to Cincinnati Gac und Electric?
34 f
A Yes. i 15 I Q
Taen the prec2ciura in that the same tests are i 16 I
1 done again ay CG u 3 or Wolr subcontractor at the point 97 j i
ja of receipt?
19 ,
A S: hat's correct.
Q Cid anyono frem G3 ccmmunicato to tha rocciving 20 PeoP l e, such as CG & E cr RCI, that, hoy, we'vo got a lot 21 .
1 of rods hero that aren't going to pass the initial gauge 22 i
boccuse they didn 't pass it at che point of chipnontt 3j d
at !!
but don't get s cited be::ause of the proceduro. ,
~ 1: i h
Any communicr.tienc liko that go on? I
.y h !
" N .
2400 david 4 1 A Not that T knew of.
2 O M::. Kananon, is that the corre t prenunciation of 3 your nama?
A (Uitnces Racer.cn) Ecnanen.
4
~
~O A.1 right, co::ry.
5 6; Are you the m .a in chargo of RCI'c responsibility 7
for these tosts, the ini::ial gauge tests?
8 A Yes.
9 .O Anybody tell yau to e::pect a bunch of reds that 1C ve dn't pass theco tost 2? n I
A No.
1i 0 Would it havs holped you in your job on your 12 ,
behalf and on CG & E's Schalf and perhaps in communicating 13 ga to the workurn what wac going on to hava had that information?l MR. CONNER: %jection, your Honor, that'a 15 16
' ir clovant and immaterial.
(Board confor>:ing.)
g SEl. BREIRIER:
Mr. Chairman, I thi:fc it's very
- g relevant boanuae it goca to the lack of cc
- rtunication and 79 miannderstaading that lad to como of the allegations in g 20 this proccoling and coma of the tentimony that's been 21 a procented 11 this proccading.
M1. ComTER: Your Ucnor, th:.t is certainly no 23 The factc are g#3 groundo for making it a proper question. y Mr. Brennor's wha't has cc mrred that hac hecn testified to.
.m .;
F
.i E
2401 david 5 7 speculation on how to make a more perfect world by 20/20 2
hindsight cartainly dces not mako his gusation relevant.
MR. BIEEER: I'm just trying to help on the 3
4 ,
theory that thsy might dasign another ranctor.
E1. CONITER: 17hy don't you talk to them off the 5
6 record. Quite wasting the board's time.
- 10. BRENIER:
I thought my question was relevant 7
a for the reason I gave originally.
CIJAIRMMI BECHiiOEFER:
I think it's relevant 9
to to some of the charge -- I use the word " charge" - that ill f1 we're trying to reopend to, so I think the questwn 12 be allowed.
Objection overculed.
13 t;I" NESS IUBLV3H: Vihat was the question again?
f4 Do you want him to CHAIRMAN BECEHOEFER:
tg l 16 reread it cr rephrase it?
I F!R. BRE2R;ER: Lat's have that one read back.
17 MR. CONNER:
May I rephrase it for him and save gg 19 time? 4 MR. 3RENNER: Ho.
20 UITHESS I'AtWICN:
It's okay; I can anstler it.
21 I don't think it veuld have changed the way no did the m
a it inspectione. It might have helped philosophically for i ;
us te have poaco 1c. mind huowing that they're not -- that t 24 l
we wculd c::pect c find thcao c nditions, br.t other than r
,u l' i
~~ if -
t' e
2402 i l
l that it wouldn't have changed the way that wo did the work.
Ovid 6 1 2 Does that answer your question?
MR. BR3iflER: % guess.
3 4
I guess it would have also helped saving or.s !
day of hearing tina and I don't know hou v.nny dayc c:i l s
5 6 preparing teatimony, a lot of intarro#atorien and a lot 7
of other things, for people to have ec,=annicated bettar 8
with their cimploycos na to juct what was being dono and what was going on.
9 I have no furthar questions.
to MR. Commn:
I novo Mr. Brannor's apooch be 11 12 strichen frco the record.
(Board conferring.)
13 CHAIR:WI BECHECl?F32: I think Mr. Conner is correct t 14 '
on the windup cer:nents, cu granted, uc'll strilco that.
15 (Ecard confarring.)
16 MR. BliEDIER:
Nr. Chairman, I hate to do this, yy but my croec czaminc. tion ucnt through a lot of nurborn, and g
Mr. Maxct.
ci'l catch m3 :n cua thing. There's one 39 I can dicere:w.cr I'd like to clear up with Mr. Ponce.
20 do it briof3y; all the other numbers derive from it. i 21 I won t have to go through them all because j s
22 ' It will be very l:
,~, ,l they'll ha thers in tha racord to adjust. i n
j g brief.
Go ahead.
<- i CEMEMI 33CS9.3FER: ,
i
2403 david 7 1 BY MR. BRDINER:
2 0 Mr. Pencey you gava no the space betwean the 3 fuel aosamblics at -- as .562; is that cor: cot?
A (Witness Pence} Yes, I did.
4 5 Q Is that tha apaca in the p::ototype fuel 6
assemblies c.; ths sp.cing in tha Zimer fuel c.csanblica?
A TE 2 point - Iim sorry. There is 2 20/1000th 7
diserapency therc.
8 I probably cer.hcad you; vo're talking about g Q Is the to the total di stance between the fuel cesembliet i
jg' discrapency 10 or 40?
I A Lc;'s nac. 0%:.y, that would be with the i gg g
water gap -- the distano: betucan the fucl. bundica would be gl 40/1030ths losu than wha: we have been talking about becauce l
15 the fuc1 chat:nels a:>o 10 ) nill or 1/1000th thickneca instca:1 of an N/100!J.1. < hi mmstae .
16 f O
So the nun 03cr 2cr Zim.ncr wcB.d tyon ha .522 of g
gg an inch.
A CorrCCt. 4 i9
.S':2 inchen; in the.t right?
gl 0 ,
A (Hods in the a2firpatira) ,
,* , , t l :
,,,, l 0 And all tLa other nehars that I did tha ;
li h cubtracticn fror. 15.2, % nocid jttst adjust by doir.g it C
2e_ ::
is that i 11 b
freza .523 am cad tp with :. corroat anuver; l
,>. y
- i
., j, right?
.a i -
i
.d 11
!i et t 1
2404 1
A That'a rignt.
tavid8 2 Jo further gi.testions. I cypreciata FIR.13.uEliMF.R:
3 l
the latitude, Mr. Chain u.
4 (P ned ccnfori.. e.g.)
c:
.s 2C A'_M 5'd*,\MIIIATIOU 0
B'i DR HOG.?E2-I 7
O I'd libt to 21 :cu-on on scros of Mr. Eranner's 8 gr.estions, end th.is cou12 ba Sf.rected both to tho -- to o
~ the panel - I'n not sure dno could ensuer tht, but I 10 think sie brcught up an ! .:,torecting question.
in
't
" I think I sou1C' liko to start by asking:
'I casa of thir ter,nt c:I pacple who works on thia -- en the l~' fuel ascetrbly, whs.t do Gs Jr.111urights kncu about th2 14 uhat these parts do and t'ae cafety functions? .
15 Aza thai required 60 know anything ahcut the 10 functioning of then' parts?
(Ultnec ; Kanar.cn) Uhen you cay, " ara they required 17 A 16 to" -- .
f# Dt you tn in ihen so that they hacv tuiything about
[ O b
~ how theco vt ricus parts i: Unction in bho reactor yhen it is 90 l' 21 a c t u n n y i n c e r v i c a'i i 1) ik , va d10n't p into operation of the control El A So rods in eta.v. gre t d:.n.th Us prit'Arilv concontrated on the
"" L q
I9 It's pencible .3h e. ,
F4ha inspecti:".a th.n t.c 9tarc rep.1-cd to do. :
1
., r.
o doing ch; jr!: ':ca knc,1c juu : d: ring convarrahi<.nc, they i,
d '
- st !.i lih: ., -(ce l:.:::v r Em ::t a thi.u I' : tight L.ia .. . r.cv: .
2405 d9 1 work in the core," or sc:tathing lika that.
2' 0 Ii they hr.d no forcel training in the nattarc l
4 3 we've sanc through in the examinatica by Mr. Brennur here 4 about thasa toleran.:cs, et cetera, and -- occentially, S If would you m.y that is ac :'ract?
6 .; A Cc rroct.
l f 0 .t d would you r.ay that thsy had no training as 7 l.
B l to ultinate cafohy significance as to thena things?
9 I. A That's correct.
t O
Ir. other vords, they might imagine that taara j 10 t
11 might be al'. sorto of sefaty consid3 rations ia these 12 ;
bu:ngs that you found tin:16 that those may rat hat.u bacn trotid 'rou say 13 ' !
actual -~ they could ham been ir2.gined; t
that wac pornible?
}4{i
!! Tiat's vacy possible.
A 16 ll re; ; C Uc11, uould in have baan helpful to han s.ny
)1 i
training pr;graa to let them knou what theno partc 17 t;
)
were actual:.y doing and to hero avoided all of this 9
do you j
i controvercy that tdvc 1-ad in this las'c instance; I
19 M. .
that would be a ':crhable procedura?
20/ t thirk I
A Yoa. An attsupt wac nade to ar.pinin in some
.]
a; M.
e3 \ detail che operation of the control reds, bun it just got .
~~ '
Tha.:
y, !;
to bc nao i;.v::'.':'ed nnd got to be tee tir.e connum.hg. I
~
h I gh was just 20:t af en in5 cr.t2. 'halk exs we work" type of i b
1..
j si':uction.
4
2406 !
u 11 i 0 And, you know, se did just not pursue it to the i 1 vid10 1il 1 j
2t end. Wo didn't feel it u.:3 that necessary.
1 Mr. Connors is always 1
O I'r just'intercated; 3hI l.
d I'm 4 interestsd in tino, offort, and money,and so on.
t come of the problers that -- ,
$ just wondering t'aat tuybe 3
' that the long hearing prcescsos could be avoi5cd, cnd l n !
7t I ultimatoly save the nata paye.rc monoy if the vendors I! ,
I' vera stoto cornunicative with the people that ticro doing .
6 ;;i :
I 91 the work. $
N The t win my only point in this line of questioning. 'l
<uj' '
I don't know whether it truld bo cost effective or not, but
, i .} '
f i i t utight; ba.
i
. ,s
and I just wanted to inquira as to what was !
't 4 E; done cnd whether ors.ot Mr. Brannor's suggestion wt.s of
..; any val:e.,
,3l Again, I susss you feel as though thoro is some ,
i value in havicc thi:, type of information availabla, and yd :
!! since you tried such a pregran, why you at Acnat think g,
1
.. . ;l it's worthwhile. i
'P r
,r.;. ! A Kell, dram the parceactive I havo today, it'n -~
j
.y lj); I agrae with you.
- i 11
' Mt. HOODE: Th:.nk ycu. .
~< .
(& ard conferr).rg.) I g., l (51 aff councel dictril:uting documenta.) l COSF,P.; I tho board pleasa, " tconid a:::k tin;
}
!.T?.. f
,; I r i p (
2407 1
david 11- 7 press not to interfore with the witnesses while they're .
2 in the witucci bo:: and uhile they're uaiting at the request ,
t 3 <
of the board. to recume.
4 (F card confer: 2ag.)
l, and-17 6 I i i
l jb fis. 6 2 l
1 7 l t
s
.,i IO I
?,
It I l
12 13 1 YD i
I j a .
i
\
.10 I I
1 _ j
.17 i 16 't. 1 e
- i 1
2c j i 21 22 Li 1
5 I
24 :l :
l I 2g 4
)
1 I2 P
c._
2408 173cach G10 F 11 1
'5i E.i. BRIGHT:
lavid I :ust hava a zw little things that we haven't
- 17 2 Q.
3 ch, really tot.chel our I guesc, and a couple of thir.gr that 4? I'd like te c.etr up m1 c.: furion on.
5 Arn, M. Pc.ncs you'll have to remed er, I'm t
c( just a 1:31:. enaning p5yciaist -
Q:.ughter )
7 ,i i -- snd de not P. .ow I:.cv to do these p: cpar j D t s questioning reutinon, Ec '.ot's don't think of it as to crocu-sec11e .icn. Let's you cad I juct talk.
9.ct.15 rou pita:.:c, for my benefit, becaust. I 21 !
heard it t::im a:..2 I stil. don't understand it, gc through 72 '
that enc equr.: e-inch rce.t..*:c again 'en the clap?
I i
73 q Okny. The area of the c12mp g A. it' .tnans P::nce. ,
- f.
- j
.g f that athOs c 1. tact it:.',:h t::o. centrol rod has c indi nylon i
-- I think 3 ,
pad shich 10 ipprz:ir:2hely one inch in dianats:
i I it's n !.!.i,tio . tit leas thr
'd E.t - n:4 ra've cpere::!. mated 57n li" sirly cicsa v.o cne smtare inch in aren.
that ths t: ir -
.!S b't
.m it j G De:.1, let's etc Unh would be the in:cribed
,a i '
't
- og j', circle
- .a a v.c-cqu:e .-i:r s . rectangle, vculd it note i h,
gyC A t.m t's :d.cht.
h
. J - '< :!.at" a ite::- liis tiuse- qucrterr.: of a equcre o 11 I I
.. Ii inchJ '. don kr.At i? it tecl?.y makoa any difference. .
u3 .
r.!
@.' . <<: e on *N call Mis "ca: t: q u a . t. i n c h " i i unnt u.2 .'id . _ w.:: & . ,
.u.,1 o, '
.t Y' when i:.: . m'c. ci ea a 2r c 1.ich.
a nl'-
s
-.7 . . ._
s t
I t 2409 17-2 jwh 1i 3.
I don't know ttch anybody haa specifically b
a nteasur 36 t m part. In cthar verds, I recall that it looks ii 3 approxin=69.y onc squtro S ch in diameter, bub I don't know 4 j that anybcdy hr.9 actually moacured it.
O 5 G Tou renn ono lb1aar inch in diamet:2r?
i I I'm corry. I a, y.3a. nic .: tri one square inch?
6if 7 li r.can one inch in Sicr:etc.r 6T l'
C Ok.ny, let' a se to the other end of the clanp.
Iow dc you dauer: ina th:::
- .ctuc1 force you put on the part?
Sl
'iG a. It ic spring-Ico.ded.
Ib-a En.cing.-loAd?
11 b., %
{I 12 1f 3. It ' O c o. rinc-2.r . ad.
'I 1.1 H 2 Can it ha ad'ua. ;3d?
13 .; I.
l O i r 3. N1 4 f4 t
- 1 '
l G It urr't? .
75! .
1 i
I i
- 3. UC, 26 !)
ar1 ,
t C. Th-m it hac be .a cCitrated? i 27 l 1 i
4 ish 1 5.'h itic correct. -
f reading in !,
r G Co tia.t ie e.ril', deliver a true i jej:- j p
j.0 j pounac r:02 ;q: arc. inch at ;0 ponn50 por square i.ich? .
(
o u
i 11,1, okes , P.c'.: ally what we've donc, ra've ,
1 ..
.c .:
I
,s
- I don't Calibra',"Od. th '.i ShC O.'. amp '22d'tc.ca 40 normds i
J.2 h t j
ff kncr t17t'%." . gen's ? Art:.Th 22.6 cherhed to m2k3 cuss that .
r3 [q C.' I 4
[3 U M 'I) J'kU2*Ib .n *d O ' Io hoEn N l)I$* 'dh b'aO 2 OY 35 d.E '
e
.s-.a n l'- ic.
2410 3 jwb I oksy, so than .'.f one wished to be a purist in G
2 these natters, ons :7cn16 de it 40 pounds per something less
'S than enc squars i.ach, without getting into the gory details 4 of how m2ch 12:ss.
5 A It teould.
1 6 ;, n_, wt..s.
I 7i Cna other thinc, tha question was caksd abcut 3 the funchien of the holes in tiG sheath, and there was 9 .
aomathing cicut circulaticu in thoro, and I thought I heard 4
10 a stater. ant t~.at, well, thy go in a hole, and they cross 11 over to the other side, and go out a hole over there.
i - and, I don't know, I'm just ccnfused. Would 12 I I
2 you go throv.g'. that ene aire tira, picace? l 24 i n. Okny, the cortrol red -- wa'11 censider cne wing bent an'd it's 15 of the control rcil -- has c. shcath that is 16 on both sides of c'1ssa scr!.as of 19 ebsorber tubas, cud so 1 I
17 thars ara there halce on hcth aidss of this wing se that
- f. there is a small rap water can go '.n cno si.do, and
- 8 l -
P i betwson thc Decrb=.tr tubst and the watar --
1s L.
20 I G Iardon no? TM "akcorher tubes"?
- 2. 5:e;;, sir.
11 t
.. It that {
n2 .[ ! 9 ' thora crn two :cus of absorbor tubec? ;
u ,
' l, l e.o 6
the idcL? !
i!
- a. Eo thtra a cn raw of abscrber tuboc.
- g ]!
uk. y, 20. , . :her are gaps batuson cach t'aba?
" 3 !!
O q
4.
2411 17 1 jwb I A Yec. In other words, it's not --
egg,y, ging,, p.rdon me.
2 g tchally fil.ed up.
3[ g _
Taf ths wid:er cca go between the elbsorber tubes
- 4) That's one pessible 5 and out the: 1olsa en the atMr aide.
y 1
6 flow path,
{ i G
Tht;n in tint ycu re saying is that the we.tsr in i
7i the hydrodynamic path might be, ,
there vill fo:'. low whatevo:
1 S
I S
1 dependin;r or I.ea the thing is cot up?
70h .L 5h: .t's correct.
In: thit cort of thing.
11 ( G n:.1, If.2in tc.h.m us to tha themal hydraulics .
12 I
- chec really need to be cooled?
13 aran. Eo them abse=Lar 1 roi: ratlly.
14 lI '
i'i l
g Th:.y ex.116 he :iust cealad up, and tnsre votidn't {
l 15 [1 1,3 i be any pcchle:d' It may -- if I rc::tcrlor cur, t
f gy -
1 Yo.;, t:ny could I i
j r ,
have a tendoney to roduce the 13 lje n
calculaticn. figh':, f.c n0 ,
l total evera:.1 lin nf tb.. centrol ted, becauce you may i
$s '
- j havo a Eciidr., :f the hyd=gan gas in the abcorhar tubes at l
3 i.L that you may obtain proscura l 21I a s'iightly hiph:r raini, s:
cisember tuba r cconer thar,. ycn would e:goct -
22 incid?*imr: i, l taing a 15 -yecr life, it night
.n-II in ethn u r:1, ins %nd c : f f ,
1 he a 1:i 3r 13 g,q [.
2 u_
+
O.
? - f. i t y.i.;r .a :orber .actaric17
.e
- .d. -
I no
-.;-...~- . .. _ _ --
. .. 5
- 3 .
2412 17-5 jwb I A It's horon carbide, 34 C.
A
' O.
On the ther:nal aids of that, inasmuch na they 3 don't nscd to be ecolud, ':han cny kind of wavinesc cr how 4 cr oven, as I think you soid, the rod will actually be 5 touching the duel channsi vall, this really dcasn't make 6[ all that muc's differonce?
Ho.. it dousn't.
4 7 A C 0. . Dous it nnha ctr diffarance on the othar side 1
i 9 of the fnel channel un11 scre the fuel is? 1 j
20 l A Mo . bec2uaa the majority of the ficw in on tha i i
The water 11 inside c d -^a duel channel in the hundic area.
12 that's going past the conblol red is only tha leakage flow, 13! as ue ec11 it. thrcugh th jointo in the bottcm core pinto I
14 ii area. .
25 L i
Q.
Okty, then tha: 1saac us into a little physics' Ifns:: ycu ha re a - ~ cacuna you have close to an .
16 offecta. i, 17 cptinma Intti:c in ycur p1 tuts --
18 ' A .S fat 3G " IC'.-:.i ? .
l,
- it'a hced f or me ':o know how to phrase come is C.
of thsao quen :icns. You$ l'.. pardon ne th.ile I chug, chug, l 2.0 I 1 1
21 a chutt. f V
L EE .t is the of Ecct of having an open --- assentiallyl P2 I
23 i open w'.ior ci am.t1 in an 3ptirren er close-packed arrsy?
d re-I'. not alun I totally understand what -
mh: .
A 23 hr you're r.a!O.nq t !.
. Il><
2413 6 jwb I G Wall, specifically the neutron popilation.
A A Ysn?
3 0 If you don't f ni that you can ancuer any of 4 these quections, plence 6 !'t hesitata --
5 A.
Sonehow I have :ho feeling that I don't kncu I
6 j' enough nuclea:.* physica to answar your questions.
1 i'
7 l' g rinc.
6 !! -
So ycc wouldn*: M in a pocition to tell :ne 9 whether the f:.u:: buildup due to the nasymetry of pir.cu.ent 10 of the poisen idlich is kn-: chine do m the nout cn peak in tha 11 water gap, th.:;t this coul1 make any differenca?
No; I den t .22ve knowledge to really cddress 12 n.
l 13 j that subject. I de hacte -Qat all of thess different I J
e 14 l' variaticas haco bcen tutt.1.r::ed by our physics people, and wa hs.va ao petica vii:h the offects. Eut what'offect 1
i ,
1!! i[
16 they hava, yo.. hnow, pere mtago-wise er a number lika that, !
i 17 , I don't knce. -
h Cnu last little titing. Have you - I understand 13 II G ll!
19 ' that you've dans quits a hit cf testing in ple.cs with
.I mockups, but util.. tiu3 ste.eight goods - well, I mecn flow i
20 [!
V 21[ patterns. and acttally th: .
effcet of little - in other i '
(
i words, ya ha- e a ncCnp ':mstfnere where you test blade ,
i l
< 22 lt .I design. Cmtr.at? h t's *Jhat I should have said to begin :
- aJ !
o j I 'z. c r *: f , t PA with.
3G L' TJ '' 9 h . ; 30 ~2*Cu kn~W about ; thel Possibility Zfj .?
4 1
_ _ _ _ ___.r'---- - --- -
1 l- l 2414 17-7 jwb theco 11-iot long unsupported, perhaps, Ili of vibration <>f I ntsan, ac yo'.
knew oncugh about it that you're 2i harps?
3 willing to say that trithin the boundaries of the - of what today in terms of numbars, that 4 wa ve been di:: cussing her i
i you have no vibratica proh,:ca?
5i 6 fr A.
I think I can eny that. We have very cinilar l U our other plants, and us havo 71 typn control : oSc on all c?.'
8' cc=0 cperational r perier:o with rods identical to those G;
1 that we :iill t.ut in the Zinmer plant, and there hcs been no 10 vibratica condition at c.11, 1
Q.
Thr.t's very ge:S to hear.
12 3, Evnn til deciga alco censidors that thcca night 8
- 3 bo vibration, and 'cc incid.c i-hat in our design.
9 Thank yen.
14 ,
4 -
{2::ard. ceniferring.)
(
15 .,
ji 16 F1 CEAI3PI" ^30EFER:
- 0. 2 luct hava n ?2w questicas.
- p. -
I holieve uhest you chould icok at frca a s'O ,
23 non er.gineer, non-phyuiciIt point Of Jiew.
l p3 I' Thore wac ccmo indication that sc.no of ths - '
t Ict me tut it thic iny: 12 st before ccaa of the bledes '
3.
f, I .a:4t, tinre ..cd to be a change in the l w
- i,f could 70ss c i 18 Tnat'c n? ,
specificati . ..- Cror. n2rfo ::: inn the test?
- r. ~ e wI a~
),
o*
us undOrU i247. din : -
t: 'l 7; ' ' 6 -20iE 1 I LS'v722O2 IAS reviG2d tOGD Op3difiCat10USi e a y
..s.
2415 17-9 jwb were proper otcc7 Was thic one whare -- Did the NRC staff I
I[ a Or was this -- Want I'm 2 h approve of tha chango in sr.ecs?
{
2 worried about is that thoro might have been a changa in 1
4! specs that pa::htpa should::'t have been made without the 5 0 NRC~looking f. it and makir.g sure it was prepar.
4 l I'::
not cura ehich of you can cnswer the question 7i f best, idsthere it wculd be -- I
~C guass I can anstrar thnt S 11. (W:.tncas Pance) 9e quantior.., It us actuall:f the responsible docign engineer 1
and myacif whr. svaluated. ths effect and uhat changes wo 8
10 '
il could make cc.i still be within our original pcranstars of And cince the only f2 our oparation of Our cont:cl rods.
>7e woro cddrossing was strictly L3 pencible prch:.sm arac the:
y a
and nc:
n anfaty quoction, I cpicsc we never Mr an operation 2..
..t v.a scmething that should havo si} sven considerad that I been reviewed by tin :mC,1ince the original requirumsnts is {
e.y ,I were never ro +1r. tad by th? Imc.
2 i Ec that ce far t.s you knew, MRC dian t at least tol 0 approve the p.cccdurc bef:Te it waa undertahan?
ja e
A, Thnh's cor::oct.
29 3
Di: n ' t - : cc tras this deelt with those wnvy my G 1
il spots, the pl:.cnont of t w clmpo, bct isn't the not result
.;a f -
l i-of tha chtnga ic c ccc th'.L there could be higher spots )
3 -
i.
'emt ' r
- .e r _;;nt wel:6 ~~ but highor arcua thcn i
I'm not im;t.
y}? bcon if the original tachi".9 3p00J g
t h e r e . W .0;.:t..i ' O J O ;.3.C h r ? i g f e i
!Og S 4
........y_
2415 L7-9 jub I hcd been uscd';
o
" A S;hn.t's co:crect.
3 ,
p, pen wouldu t y x any there's no -- there's no 5
hI 4j safety significance, won vith these higher spcts, 5:: hic f
presume - Fi::st, I r: ocu.ca that the higher placau, even i f
5 G j they'ra hald 4.cnn, will cc:ns bac c and ba highar after the li 7 clanps are ta.er. off, I b211ove you testified to that? I D A. 5.'h".t' a cos.:ect.
9 0 And there utill is sufficient cicarance so that ?
10 theuo rcds vill move - I ton't know if " freely" is the l
11 right werd, but -- at lert apprcpriately, but if thero 12!,
hc3 to to a scraa, for ir.;tanco, they still could mero a
I 13 i freely?
, i i Uc::d.d thoro be any ma::imum nrber cf roda that 14 i be 13 could be inflicted vid cmh high spots befors there'd 10 a safety que:nion?
o A. Ho.
In other forde, in reality, e'rory cae in ;
17[ 'd i 18 p Li the rotetor ein be afflicF.5 with high spots and there i l
still be no safety questi n.
M[
I Va:.rbe to civo feu s. little bit of a handle on 20 (i this, frca en operathnal ttandpoint we have this appro::imat i 2: I l 52 ;
150 pounds cf frichic:'. thnt recults in a "no settle" l i
t C.ta9cre -Tat :a a cafety type queation, no
.03 b ng ,i
!! conditicn.had to nthe t' a c r.4rral 2213 hcva a ,
I 7..~0 coulf avan r.n.m2rc arcy C5i lI500 pcards cf .* tict:'. v. 'x .ca et s
[1 .
.i
.7. . .. ._
i 2417
- 10 $wb r
I reduction or change in sc.:.La speed.
2 0 Ecr I understand that there hcs -- that there is 3 ' some e:Yfect, 'te friction that you were talking about at Is 4 one point, th: friction could result in groator wear.
5' that corrcet?
6 A Uhti'c cor::cet.
7' t
G 1:c: aro th re ":,2y, throtghcut the life of the 3 4 reactor, are :.nspecticni, perferned to sco that the wear 0 doesn't got t::o grzat?
therr really is. It's indirectly, !
10 a. In effect 11 cisco the fue:. ch:nnels, f.e fuc1 bundles are rmoved 17-periodically, Z think the 2:r./cimum that one fuel bundle is cacte:: is sw.srhe.:a around fiva years before it is 1
13 in ths 14 l 1 pu11cd cut, aad that ?uel chtnnsi ia tap.sn off and put on Se et '-hat time, that par:.icular fuel 15 a neu fuel huidio.
. 1 of our tectc, wu'va found that 13 channel is exanined. In
- 7 the wear occu
- s en tha fual channel, and not by the control 26 red.
I Du: if t&cte vm e voar on the control rod, I acsume-G ml 20 that vetid he astoct.J nc ; oll? Cr could that ha detacted?
Cr uculd that be detected Fhrough the normal cource of 21
.\
m lI inspections Y. at ta*. . p".n :a? -
i il. 8.t whee. you 1 Ec"., ym , you reuld probably coe i n3 l
. ;u don' t normally in.vs the v,;
d mova y t.: cet :al rc . ;. ;
Tho e{
con':raf. !"O ' n ths. a r.m i..ma don the entiro lifo.
ng :' . .
r_ _ . _ =
2410 13-11 jwb free the 1 '
centrol ::ca is usuallir mcved from tho -- out I 2 center of the core teward the cutor of the coro,-and vice and tian you remov that, I'm sura that if thsro 3 versa, 4 were any significant tear it would ba seen.
5 But all cf our testing, our tecting had sc:ns The waar that e:cisted 6 significant hdgh sp6tc en it, also.
7 as a result of tha rubbing of the rollers -- the rollers on 8 the fuel chantela, not hatz;sen the rubbing of the centrol
.snd JWB 9 rod on the fuc1 channsl.
918 ar i29 10 fals
!1 12 ,
14 .
D 16 .
17 I
13 to i 20 !,
9
.I 23 l l N>
ua I i
b 4
2419 01 1 Q No.i with respect to that, I won't call it an 2 c hibit, but it waaa't introduced, but the metal --
tho 3 again I'm using the wor 6 chavings to cover broadly, 4 pieces of metal that were thero, but I noticad thore were 5 como differer,ces botaean -- thore woro soma that were considorably largar ':han othora, and I wondered whether Sp i cince 7l you could a:: plain what tL.c cource of that ic ,
o 8 sous appocraG to be just. small tiny littic spec :s, and 9 the others -- tharc : ras rano, at least, that looked like 10 e rectangular shapo -- ::1though not preciscly roctangular 11 but it was 1(.ng, it : ras definitaly larger than the speck, and I acndcrod w. .nthor you cou5.d e:<picin uhat 12 i
e IS [ the cause of thoce dif fs.rences is.,
A Ii'c only inherent in spot uciding that you i 14 l
15 get cignificant variatione, differont shnpes of 'the 16 cplash or spatter that noea from spot uciding operations 17 sometimes.
New would thr:
racidue from the chamforing TD Q 10 loch didiarer:t?
A I aould any definitely it would.
?O 0
cculd the pec sanco of either the Et i
residuc from the chc_tfa:ing or the other, the welding, 22
' could ': hat ic. . >7 2 an;c o.? Ret in the wear of tha control 20 lU
-avl. rod:2 at all, u.;uziNJ i it thoro was conc atill r *MsC ? l
'<*d I G i n i n 9 a r o cr.d L K*
pr0Gcnt, al i d.ir3 i t ;','!G ...[ .
i gg i h
I $
,e
.._.,...._._..~ - - - - - - _ _ _ _ _ _
2420 cr2 I A I, ic poacible that you might be able to in 2 some way gonorate-a littlo bit of a high spot there 3 that could cauce a little bit of waar, that in correct.
I.: it ponsihis that there could be a high 4 0 5; spot when coupled wf.th an already-existing high spot, 6 could reduce the spaco availab.le -- the spaca availabic 7 beycad what .:.s either cperationally acceptable or 8 acceptable f::ca a anfoty standpoint?
O A I don' t ron117 think it could, becauae your 10 particino aro no sr.ull you would have to got cuch a 11 large number of them in ono location to ucho a large 12 enough bulge or high spct to create any Icind of c M) localized we tr arsc and the total number in a control 14 rod ucs net : hat graat.
rou're telhiag about comothing that you 15 to can hold in :ho pala of your hand, or it will hardly thing like that.
17 .ovan cover t.':e bottam of a cup or .some 18 You' ro not t ilhing r. bout - a pile of stuf f.
0 So that avon if the claaning procedures 19 20 which you de :cribed wara ineffective, if it all stayed, 21 thero ctill oculdn't bo, cay, any safety cignificanco?
r A TL.at a cerro :%
8 i i'
! O Y u contiersed with respeset to the chamfering s 23 I cla.zinej that 2::ck place af ter ido chic.mferint
,tw i
lthattha :::cm that shi h had tahcn :;1 ace carliur.
una diffe:-w n *j:.:
s Il d.
+ -
2421 cr3' i
I'm not cure you descri' cad enactly what the 2' difference was, and --
3 A iR11, ocsantially the cloaning aftar the 4 I chamforing was only intoade6 to remove the rc3idual 5 tapa adhesive that una on the control ronc fo.: tha O
material that had bo.sn uced to cover the cool;'.ng water holes in the shoe.th f.n 2ho area whare we tier:t doing the 7
G grinding, 0 I neo, s
10 So the norsidue from the grinding you protecttd- ;
1 11 ao it tsouldn't gzh in thoro in the first placo? t 12 A That'c corract.
Q And that trau uncocasful caough :so that you 33 14 did not have to furthar elenn, % take it?
A Right.
15 g3 ll (Ecard acafA..liag.)
I "I;r>.IM1AN DECnF02I?r.: 'Jhc.h' a all S'as questianc g7 h g9 that the Doa: d han, 6
gg I can inquirn new hew long it is likely to 29 tcP.c fixat for rediroch, and than for furthur quartiona j of the p:2rtice tihuthor we ahnu:.d attonst to do chah l 9! v coday or suart agein m .o r r ott. ,
y ,!!
- .2 the Soc.
- :d Utnte u3 ha .-reccol j II Mh, Ci EF: ?.s
. I g1 l' a.t chiJ pc.'.nt -- l y,jwithrudi::act ,
h I v e. : 1::Sin 3 t.) inqu! ..
- i. '11 Ts W!!d! sit D a 1714 :1.'.:
.m.- 1;,
y
- d. ,
't if
2422 cr4 1
as to time. We want to break fairly soon.
2 MR. CONNER:
Uc'd probably maha haste slowly 3 by waiting to utart tomor. row, because I nood zo chech 4 some of the things that were stated and ucno of the ao I can't say right 5 numbero that Mr. Bre.ancr wan using, 0 at this point.
It cartninly wouldn't be very long.
CEAIRMAN 3E0"EOEFER:
Mr. Brennor?
7 I don't 8 Mri. 3RENNUR: That's fine with ne.
3tiono 8 know if it helps, I've get a feu very brief que:
30 an a rocult ct ths Board's quactions.
Well, vc're going to 11 CHA.InMAM 32CiniO2FER:
11 have that.
MF.. BREUdER:
I can ack thcae now if you'd 13 14 like.
7.t night bo Just t.d wall to 15 Mr. CONUEn:
16 got that in row, becanoa it uccid probably ralsta to 17 f thece numbur;. .
70 (r.o ard confo:: ring.)
Why don't you ask your 19 CI. AIRMAM DECIL ~. CSP 2n:
20 questi.)nn at thin stage?
Mr. 3REMN3R I'll Gtill get a shot at redirco':.;
21
?.2, right?
703.
33 C:AIRMhM DEC'. :0I'J R n :
l Mr. , D.MP:'.sa s In that Unco, I "ill de f.t. l P.4 i
23 l i
= . - - - -
2423
- r5 1
CROSS ON BOARD QUESTIONS 2 BT MR, ERELE6R:
3 Q M::. Pence, in the GE report, 3 '34 HA 20 0, that is there data on any testing 4 you referenced previour.87, S that vould go towards the question of Ic ag-term usar on 6 channels?
A Y m, sir, the::o is. It's includod in that 7
8 came report.
9 Q Cin you vary briefly toll us what type of 10 testing this ur.3, whether it unc'-- what it wac meant 11 to raprocant?
O..cy. Sacically this is what un referred to 1
12 7.
as a minalig: ament tomt. In other words, taking the w
14 ascombly of t11 the equipment inside the ree.ctor, what 15 we call thepnnp gcide ad2 the bottom ccolar and all tho gg other equi;pm mt, and micaligning it to its me:timic c
p allowablo ccaditior. by the tolcrancos of 'ha acccably In g drawings., an I running tihat we call n lifo tant.
thic particu't.ar car:c ,
it trac santunad 20 year.: ef life gg an/ a number .M scra:m e.ad jog go for the cont. col red Lod cyclon :2nd ou cotara <:hnt would be coon during that pa:
21 raa oi:t actod to be scon And then we of time, or 22 pa examined r11 fva Or.<.:pe: nts after*.rards. ,
"y l.l 0 .; ; peri: ef t 4.c nisaligs.. int 'act, Gid you
.t !2d a h4.:<h j
- 1 rod *al?.h , if 1.-;
nn,.l purposely',3e.
I this cott. l I f t
s *
- ~ ~ ~ ~
2424 cr6 .
1I spot?
2 A Yos, the blada that was usca did have a 3' signifi::an t high spot.
4 0 Do you know '. Gat the dinension of th.it high 5 spot wan?
6 A N;.th a littis bit of raucarch hero, I think I 7 can find tha%
0 The dineucio..,was .324.
O 0 So tho high apot in tha prototypo life time j
i 10 i vent tenting unc higher than the h:.gh spot that could have been prucent on a control rod acc.apted for timmer; 11 12 correct?
13 A I beliove th9.t o right.
8
.320; io that 14 O The Sinmer ona is bound at 1
15 correct?
IS ! A That's cerra %
D ,. . y o t;.
kaov :!fhand what thia 20-yscr life 17 0 of scrama f3 cycling cond.sted of in terms of numbo::3 10 cad cc en?
20 A That vill tn.'::. a little bit of rac scrch harc .
Let ca vivo ..r ;u come nuubers uhile you nro 21 0
,looking, and e.ybe ycu ran cdnfirm them, or dicagreo 3%
d hat point.
23 1 with rao, 1 2 . c :. cl u t to 10 '! u.'. - u t : , a a ct.maa , 13 0 a cr:s.a f re n l 3$
l' niee ax c.m em: cut, :. u . .. cua:: car cc ehe ;
c p.9ouisia 12 1
)
2425 cr7 1 control rod would have to bn inserted back in for that 2 scram, and then 1075 normal speed outstrokes.
3 A Those numborc sound correct-without cu 4 actually goiag in r.ud varifying them.
5 O T:tsy'ra trithin the closa rcngo?
6 < A Y.a u , they are, Q Do you know w.at h wear was moanured on the 7
a sheath first, and then on the channol? That in the aide o
of the luol assembly, ca a r:esult of theco lifetime wear, 10 i20-yeab'lifocycling t03tc?
[1 A Those are scme more numbers I will have to double-check. Liko IS,000ths or something like that 12 g3 seems to stich in my mind.
Q If it will te.hc c whilo, va can pich those 14 gy numbers up first thing in the morning.
A I havo' 10,000 ths an a mn::imum depth on a 16 77 sheath fer u3cr.
Q Jact to be cura us are clear, that vould be gg 1D ,
.C107 A Carract.
20
'Iho na:ti. nun 63pth on the fuel char.nol wco 21 22 .035.
All right., I'd like to hsve there e:: pressed
.. .0
.a y" for the. pu::paaas c:i cctha::t with the appro::imata porconum,yo it a w:,1 thio 4no :n with respoct tt ':ho shocth,l i
.35 R i b b i.
1I 2426 or8 1
I believe you previously testified that the thickness of 2 the shaa.th we.s
.030 inches; is that correct?
A Tant's right.
3 So nominclly ae have the wear of a third of 4 Q 5 , total thicknnas of the chenth?
i G l >l A That's correct.
0 With roepect to the channel, that would be 7 ?
a the thicknasa of tha vall or the channel box for Zimme s
Once we got the correction, we learned that thickness 10 was .100; is that correct?
A Thht's right.
f1 O
So this wehr that the prototype testing 12 g) report showel .033 inchas would be noninally a third is that correct?
ga or slightly :aoro of thet thicknesa; A T 1at's uf.sht .
33 Q
th"ld di;agra sable ucar create any operational 16 !
g7 problanc?
A Na, it uou?.c rs ' t.
18 With Q
I think there's one last questica, gg 3'd the shetths uhr. rein it is your 20 respect to tais nolding view that cc t.a od checa particles, what ycn tt.rned up or 21 what we lookad at hora iod.y, ic thic ucidint n
dono afi:ar tha cont:cl ::od la placed in tha tubo?
23 It 's *:ht centrol I'n recchint for a word.
2'.; lli on P, rod - be:f at .: cbc ni ytae e.ra inuorted, t
' I
2427 ar9 I A Tha absorber roda, or the pins, are in the n
- sheath and th2n the spot seld to the center post or the 3 tie rod, as it's called, 2.s made at that point in time.
4 ~.kay, thank you. I have no MP. 3R3tEER:
5 furs. hor questions at this tim-).
6 (Esard cenfe:; ring.)
7 CE '$nUGN BECUIOSFEP.:
Ohay, wa$11 break for 8 the day. Se back temorrow at 9: 00 o'cloch.
9 The Applicantn vill put on their rodirect.
10 (Thorcupon, tha hearing was adjournod at a.m., Hoduceday, 11 5:35 p.m., to be reconvened at 9:00 12 August 8, 19 " 9 . ) ,
14 '
W W W M W IS 17 18 .
19 >
7.0 St 22 P.3 M i ,
k I, i )
.U \i i t.
O;
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