ML20039G114

Transcript of 810929 Facility Evacuation Plan Meeting in Cold Springs,Ky

ML20039G114
Person / Time
Site:	Zimmer
Issue date:	09/29/1981
From:	AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED
To:
References
NUDOCS 8201150299
Download: ML20039G114 (25)

Text

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(  ::immer Evacuntion P1:n M; ding c% gd[M Red Rivar C;ttlo Co. PRO 2. O. UTU FAC.. . . . . .m._u,aa.

Cold Spring, Ky.

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Those present:

Greg Ficke - Cincinnati Gas & E11ectric Co. ,

Craig Martin - State Disaster Emergency Services

- Wayne Berry - State Disaster Emergency Services '82 JIR 11.Pl2 :07'

Bob Alexander - Campbell County Disaster Emergency Services 'Q Andy Dennison - Consultant to Superintendent n.

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..Q c $,

Gene Sell - Superintendent, Campbell County Schools

.Myron Reinhardt - Deputy Superintendent, Campbell Count ebn dR ,U$

%c Lawrence Kinney - Associate Superintendent Campbell Curtis Foutch - Associate Super:'ntendent, Campbell ey Schoo . O Don Augsback - Principal, Cold Spring Elementary gECEfyED Bill Cann - Purchasing, Campbell County Schools g \\

Bill Corbin - Supervisor, Campbell County Schools -- f .

Ray Hildebrand - Teacher, St. Mary Elementary _ g i g1 b 7982g lI2 Bob Ihrig - Asst. Principal, Cline Middle School W #

13ay Iles - Principal, Cline Middle School Tom McArter - Supervisor, Campbell County Schools < f .

• . Ken McCormick - Coordinator, Charles McCormick Voca Mary McCormick - Campbell County Schools Ron McCormick - Principal, Alexandria Elementary Ann Painter - Asst. Principal, South Middle School Jerry Racke - Asst. Principal, Campbell County High School Glen Ramey - Principal, Highland Heights Elementary Glen Ravenscraft - Asst. Principal, Campbell County High School Myrtle Romito - Campbell County Schcols Henry Rose - Director of Pupil Personnel, Campbell County Schools Tom Seither, Principal, Bishop Brossart High School Bob Tuttle - Principal, Grant's Lick Elementary Bill Voelker - Principal, A.J. Jolly Elementary Daris Watts - Food Service Director, Campbell County Schools Frank Watts - Principal, South Campbell County Middle School Gayle Sell Jean Kinney Audrey Reinhardt I

Sell I'd like to ask several pertinent questions. . .I did ask for the meeting,

- therefore Mr. Ficke and Mr. Martin did designate me to chair it, which is no problem. We are going to tape it. Our purpose of this evening is to

• initiate to the group that's here tonight to try and help us to work out the best evacuation plan possible for our area in relation to Zimmer...

and in so doing they will be able to provide us with some answers.. I'm sure that some other answers have to' be done in a different I'mfashion..

hopeful that possibly take the questions and respond at a later date.

we can get an answer to most of our questions within the next 15 to 25 days or so. Time is upon us, however, I do feel that we're still within reason in meeting as a large group. Now this 'will probably be the last time that we will meet in such numbers. And while it will take us just a few minutes I think that it would benefit all of us if I had the opportunity', or took the liberty, of introducing those present this evening.

I will begin with Mr. Martin from DES, the Department of Emergency Services out of Frankfort..and ask that you stand so that the people can at least recogniz'e you later in the evening or the next time they see you at meeting.

Mr. Craig Martin. . .On his right is our local DES Coordinator Mr. Bob Alexander. . .Now on his right from the Department of Emergency Services from Frankfort, Mr. Wayne Barry. . .To his right the representative from CG&E N

Mr. Grea Ficke...On my left, the consultant to the superintendent's office e 8201150299 810929 Q$N PDR ADOCK 05000358

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. Zimmer Evacuation Plan Me ing Paga 2 Sell Mr. Andy Denniron... Going down tha row on my loft, our Deputy (Cont.) Superintendent Mr. Myron Reinhardt. . .with him this evecing his wife

[ Audrey. .Mr. McCormick. . Ken McCormick the Principal of the Charles E.

McCormick Vocational School in our district. .his wife is our Ca=pbell County Schools recordkeeper/bockkeeper and the gal that. controls the purse strings,Mrs. Mary McCormick..Our Director of Pupil Personnel Services. .Mr. Henry Rose..is on her left..if you would stand because some of these people up here can't see beyond just a few people. Mr.

Ronnie McCormick, Principal of Alexandria Elementary School..Mr. Bill Corbin our secondary Supervisor..Mr. Glen Ravenscraft, Assistant Principal at Campbell County High School..Mr. Ray Iles, Principal of Cline Middle School. . . Associate Superintendent and' High School Executive Principal, Dr. Curtis Foutch. .Mr. Bob Tuttle, Princioal of Grant's Lick Elementary School..our Director of Food Service, Mrs. Doris Watts..Mr.

Frank Watts, our Principal at South Middle School..Arsociate Superintend Mr. Judge Kinney and his wife Jean..our Elementary Supervisor Mr. Tom McArter. . Principal of Cold Spring Elementary School, Mr. Don Augsback..

Principal of Bishop Brossart High School, Mr. ' Tom Seither.. Principal of Highland Haights Elementary School, Mr. Glen Ramey.. Assistant Principal at Cline Middle School, Mr. Bob Ihrig. .our gal in the bus garage, workir, directly with transportation, Mrs. Myrtle Romito..our Assistant Principa at South Middle School, Mrs. Ann Painter..?sssistant Principal at Campbe' County High School, Mr. Jerry Racke. . Principal of A. J. Jolly, Mr. Bil Voelker.. representing St. Mary's Elementary School in Alexandria, Mr. Ra Hildebrand. .and Mr. Eill Cann, Director of Purchasing and a person that

, does a lot of things in a lot of areas for us. We appreciate your attendance and I've oot one last person that I wish to introduce...I've spent several years with many of you and with just a few of you you've never seen my better half. .she is not a ghost..she lives. .she breathes. .

she talks..and she walks. .cy lovely and supporti ng wife. .Gayle Ann.. And would you please stand. .that's stand not wave dear..she does exist.

with that I would simply state that Myron and I' have worked together on some transportation related questions in areas of concern for the four gentlemen at the head table. .if you can help us. .and then I have worked with the consultant on some related topics. .many topics. .We do not anticipate full answers this evening..we knew that that was not the pur But any, partia.1 answers that we can get..we appreciate and those that w

~ can't get any response on or shouldn't get it on at this point we would

'want to seek direction. . .to whom do we turn. . .when do we do it. . .

how do we affect it.. .because while I said that this is a pretty good time frame for us to get together.. .I don't thinx July of '82 is' all th far away. . .Preparrr iness is a concern of everyone. . .that goes for CG&E. <

DES, our local coordinator and most assuredly all of us that are affecte directly or indirectly with the operation of the Zismer plant and fully understanding of alternative forms of energy must be found even if it's The die in our own back yard. . .over which we have no direct control.

has been cast...the Rdbicon will be crossed. So .but weI'mwant to me, to do viewing drowning or splashing too much on each other.

this meeting this evening as a gentlemanly and peaceful approach to securing' answers to questions that concern us and with that we'll Legi:

with just a few guestions. Each page only has one question so don't stand alarmed..and I'm not saying this is the beginning or the end of <

questions. We will find some answers or be denied answers. .one of the two. . Anyone that's addressing a questien to the group'I would apprecia<

it if you would stand, site your name, ,and speakCopies loud enough of thistowill be heabe to the front so the recorder will pick it up.

shared with anyone precent should they ask for it.

Scptemb r 29, 1981 ,

Zimmer Evrcuatien -Pinn Meeting Prga 3 Sell In reference to transportation...I first of cll sit 3 to DES cnd CG&E We do (Cont.)

as well as our local coordinator that we are a poor district.

not have adequate transportation to effectively bring our students from their home site into their respective schools without several things being considered.

Double runs , or loops if you will,. doubling back. . .

This is the only way that shuttleing.. drop off sights.. pickup sights.

we can operate a transportation system with the monics that we have and I would site to you that our enrollment based on 60 students per bus...

in' order to evacuate within a reasonable time frame of no less hour and no more than an hour and a half to an hour and forty five

' minutes.

We would need at A.J. Jolly a minimum of 4 buses..at Grant's 1.ick, 5..the south Middle Schooi, 10.. Alexandria Elementary, 9...now you see why I said copies would

5. .St. be8.available..

Mary's, .St. Peter Campbell County

& Paul, 2. .and far Hig buses. . Bishop Brossart,

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some reason we did not get a representative here...I'm good reason.

from this evening and any in the future made available with him as a result of this meeting.. .that's Mrs. Scanlon who is principal at St.

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Peter & Paul. They would require 2 buses and our Vocational School I did not add them up since adjusting them.,

a minimum of 4 buses.

since I spoke with Kenny;.McCormick upon arrival..I failed to ask the number of students.. morning or afternoon session. .taking the largest tut Ibelieve we're going to come up with something in the neighborhood Greg did you have a chance to add those up?

of 73 or 74 buses.

Ficke Quickly I got 77.

Sell 77 we'll take..

Ficke I won't quarrel with you then.

Sell Okay...My estimation is that in reality..when you stop and figure the fact that we have several buses that have been in service 8 yaars or '

.the longer..

first numerous buses with the odometer rea100,000..that w running. .when -they feel like running..to be incorporated into.the coun necessary to safely evacuate Thisthe scnools seems to beand the the studentas set pattern population set by

- within the 10 mile radius. With that thought in mind

' standards in case of a potential problem.

I can only state the Campbell County Schools..and we do service the parochial..that we have 40 buses that we can count on and I would count on within reason. . .This does take into'h consideratio d the

.that roughly a 123 out of a 175 days:ve do not hav or any other form of failure.. .I think it would be unrealistic however to anticipate an answer to this question. .if I were to ask for some provision other than our own monitary means. .for someone to p(

with..if the figure is correct Greg..and I won't hold anyone to I didn' t add it either. 37 buses.

reason and do it well that in all probability.. based on these monsters breaking down. .between now and opening- day. .appro 24 regular 60 passenger busec. This does not include however the (j within a reasonable amount of time.

necessity of having on hand no less Chan 2 lif t buses to service thel students that are ceverely handicapped' dnd cannot regular passenger bus.

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gdnmer y m tton W an .h ting Paga 4 Soll cutomobile. I ety.2 minimum b ctusa really wa'ra gstting by on 2 leased buses...it's quite expensive to us...they'ra coming cut of..

(Cont.)

i it 's not TANK. .but what's the other. . . . . .

Reinhardt Northern Kentucky Transit Authority .

Sell NKTA? We sometimes confuse that with TANK. ..They are two seperate entities..I believe. .at least they're administered that way. They are expensive to us and they are not reliable..to give you an example..

and I even hate to admit this..but it's happened because we are strapped financially...it has happened. We have voided the educational process due to the inability to pick up students with properly operating lif t buses at least ene third of our first three or four weeks of opening of school. We hope we've got that partially corrected. But you have to remember where these buses are coming from. Someone else got their money out of them first..we can't afford to go out and buy them at this point..but they will be needed before we go into operation and I feel that it's the problem of our state organization or the company itself..

- to make provisions. If I'm wrong I stand to be corrected. .however if

- wrong to the tune that we shall provide. .then we have a serious problem.

And I'm not voluntarily spending any of our local tax dollars in case we should have a windfall from any source in Frankfort. At this point I'm not anticipating a windfall. .I'm just praying the checks don't bounce. But this is the predicament that we're in so. . .it was a long question. .the others are not that long. .but I ask you. .where do we__.

turn...where do I turn as Superintendent of the common schools in Campbell County..providing services to no less than 9 schools..to safely E cuate..and that's students only. If we're expected to put staff on there it will change. I guess teachers are expected to run, walk or crawl to the nearest exit. I didn't take them into consideration..I think that will be a revision that we'll have to come back 'on if our staff is expected to supervise them and occupy a. seat or standing room.,

Now. . .. who wants to field the question. . . Don't all of"you rush at once noW...

Barry I could field part of it...I don't knoW where we're going to get the additional buses that you' re speaking of except we. . . . .

Sell Excuse me one moment Wayne...Mr. Barry would you please identify yoursel:

before you respond..

Barry Okay. . .I'.m Wayne Barry with Disaster and Emergency Services, Chie(

g r- Wo dem ' t hwa all the details worked out and we don't intend p

to try to tell you that we do have all the answers, but we had considere; th 6 1em in evacuatina vour students. What we had considered. .again.

. preliminary. .subiect to the approval of whoever we work with to finalize t yhlans..was that students could be brought out of the emergency p.lanning zone..which extends out about 12 to 13 miles from Zimmer Plant.

comes up along the Licking River..across through Alexandria..across Fender Road..into intersection with Hwy. 8. We thought that in the area where the TANK buses would have a problem in maneuvering..we would Grehi buses to transport them up to this area. . Ale $candria. .EEk

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gy_could be pickedJp with TANK._hns_es_and_t_ajgenJ_o_.,e_i'-hE Grant or _

B go ne County or if they live cutside...if theyJ o_to school here_in Alex.andria.hutlhey 1iuc._op_tlide_ the emer,gqncy_ planning zone we would ddl moving them until we had evacuated all_the._ people.who lived within the ~

c'msrgency planning zone. TEtTN1y a partial answbut' that's abobi 1

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mm;r EvacuatiTn Pl^n Me; ting P;g] 5 Barry a far a I can go right now on thnt.. .now I b;11c.ve Bob Mid thtt (Cont.) TANK does have about 20 buses that they would commit to the evacuation of the students.

Sell Alright...if I may interrupt... Bob when TANK says they have about 20 buses to commit to the evacuation of the students. . .in what manner will_

those be deployed. . .where will they be housed. . .and what's the driving __

time and distance f rom t5e assembly __ area _where it pra=umably is s_af_e to transfer and go on?

Alexander I'm Bob Alexander from local. DES...At present the TANK barn is located in Newport and with the completion of 471 it's about a 20 to 25 minute ride from the barn to Campbell County High School. In addition to that I have surveyed the private transportation available in Campbell County and I have found out that there are a number of buses belonging to c M es, private _schoo_ls social _cipbs_anA_ng_forth__thAt_we_wquld use

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to augment the tran_sportation from._the_colle.cting_ point here in Ale'xandria to on_e of _the _hns;_ araw a it-h a r i n_Boone._otGrant;_Coun t;y_._I_

think we have identified about 1200 spaces on this transportation. Now When 7 these , buses are supposed to be in reasonably good running order.

, I polled these people I asked them. ..are these sitting where they can be reached and whether or not they are gassed and whether or not they have drivers and if they are in good mechanical condition. I rejected any marginal bus. .that is if it was over age. ..and in need of repair I didn't consider it. Secondly, we have negotiated with Kenton County School system and I have a letter from the Assistant Superintendent the.

that they will support us in many of our needs for transportation. Now we have not defined how many buses they could send here but Mr. Wallace has written to me and indicated that they are willing to help. I don't know at this time how many buses Mr. Wallace will be able to provide bu' if you think about it they are not really too far away in Independence jM M across the Schneider So we bridge do haveinto someAlexandria is not support in the a great private areas deal of driv and the w distance.

Kenton County school area.

Sell People please keep in mind that we are going to have to insert ourselve as we think o'f things because this is the first meeting. What comes te

- my mind is this...when you speak of private buses...X number available

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provide service. . .we3al with buse,s every_dayTn'd I don',t know which church buses you_mAy_

u bo _ referring to Bob, but I do know this. . .if they' used for siiiiday mornine services and Wednesday _ services. .there_is[a' tir frame in there from Wednesday til_Smday_.where they are possibly_ parked convenient 1v so and maybe dr_i_y_q s_.ayailable...maybea_' driver right the but I do know that our experience with buses that,are driven, hopefully fge days a week with the exceptions of summer months. . .that when winte hi_tsTtlist~f rom _morninglo_ morning _this is why_1._say. . .ws liave'59 busc but I'm discounting _19__due_to mileage,Je.Irice_and the fact that on no

,given morning. . .maybe even during the summer let alone dead _of_ win _ter. <

that those buses will start and_can_be made operabic. So I've cot to question the truc availability. Then in reference to the question askc with buses made available and the response that Art Walsh, whom I know quite well f rom Kenton County. .providing and helping with buses. That be fine if the emergency arises at,a_contenient_timc~such_ as.mif_.it_

Trisds between. .let's say Si45~in the morning =and I.could be. wrong. .:

d6ii't' know their ' schedule:~un'd 8il5. .thereT a 3 hour3.472222e-5 days <br />8.333333e-4 hours <br />4.960317e-6 weeks <br />1.1415e-6 months <br /> block that 'I"do n'ot feel"that any other school system. . .unless they, are filthy rich anc

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h. ave doubled the necessary buses. . .could. help Tus-one bit _moic ',than we__

S;ptemb r 29, 1981 Zimmer Evzcunticn PlEn Me: ting Pig] 6 Sell could help ourselves. Then in the afternoon, depending. on whether (Cont.) those buses are taken home by drivers or even assembled all in one

- spot..there is going to be down time between approximately..what 1:45 to 2:15. .somewhere in that 30 minute range. .until 4, 4:15,.-possibly 4:30. Now we cannot regulate the emergency..if we could we wouldn't need this. But there are 2 instances with time frames that they're down..also weekends and with private buses..if they aren't started on a _ regular basis. .and 'even if they are. .or even if they were. .we have no assurance that those private buses that are not operating at least 5 days a week or close to it..are going to be or' any service. Now, there(

a follow-up' question to the original question. Where will~ T_ANK_b_use_s2

.s Kenton County's Muses.and_the -church _or_ private _ buses meet us to assist us? What ha_s,been _ planned. to _date. ._,i_s_it_ Campbell _ County High Schooll_

Alexander Tentatively y es. . .

m -

Sell Alright... tentatively yes. Mr. Barry did I understand you correctly

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when you made reference to the 12 to 13 mile zone. Alright, Alexandria <

parts of Alexandria are not outside of that range..so if we're sending buses into the range or the. . .I'm calling it the Zimmer Zone. .okay?. .

then of what value. .if it takes. .even with the immediate response from the bus barn at Newport. .and I'm wondering when they build the- new barn. .over in wherever. . .if they'll still have those buses stored in Newport and even that is a 25 minute ride..and that's with good traffic patterns. .that's with no alarus going off anywhere. .the roads not overli crowded or e >ngested.. .but taking 25 minutes to get that far I question the reasonableness of their being able to be of service to us. I questi Simon Kenton's and I question the private sector. .in so far as private buses being of much good to the very lives of the children we're trying evacuate...as well as the, superintendent and principals and so forth.

Alexander Gene let me clarify something here. . .

Sell Bob would you speak up. .with the party over there they are getting.. .ars they getting ready to leave?

Waitress They're just coming in....

Sel$1 Oh God....

Alexander Included in my private bus survey is buses from say. . Bellevue, Dayton and Newport..Now these are school buses that are operated for most part daily..but not over any lengthy schedule. There are 2 of them sitting right close to my home that maybe are used 3 or 4 days a week to transpc g'iils basketball, football teams and that sort of thing. The City of Newport has a number of buses that are being used to transport students within the city..These buses are included in this private survey.

Sell Okay. . .again I would only site that any school district. . .short of Kenton County, Campbell County, Boone County... yea, they huve shorter runs because they travel less distance. . .but the time frame. .we've got down time. Now, Mr. Martin would like to respond.

Martin This is Craig Martin with state DES. .I would like to say that we apprec; some of the concerns and problems that Nr. Sell has brought to our attention tonight and of course we're not going to try to debate with yc a

nmmer hvacu J.lon n 'n .sueupy P:g3 7 Martin cll tonight..come of tha pros cnd con 3 cf what you w nt to do b causa (Cont.) we're just in the beginning of trying to inv stigte the_grnt_proble=s y that you'r_e_krm to our attention. .and that's what we want_to_ hear._._ l and if we've got the kind of problems that the superintendent is talking about. .we_ definitely have to solve those problems before we can move forward. To put this just a little bit in perspective for you..because I don % believe a lot of you have had some of the background as far as the state is concerned..and where we are today and how we got here 1:1 relation to the Zimmer Plant..I'd like to spend about 3 or 4 minutes jud bringing you up to date. .if I could. The first thing I'd like to ]

mention to you is basically the state's position visa the nuclear facils whether it be Zi=mer or anotner one. .and that is- we neither oppose _Do endorse the construction or operation of any of these, nuclear _fa_cil_ili_eq Our responsibility under Kentucky Revised Statute is that we must prepa:d for and carry out emergency and disaster preparedness programs to safeg the children. . .the citizens of our Commonwealth. . .and we're talking aboh children..our most precious commodity..so I think our objective and yc.h obj'ectives are going to coincide as we continue down this road here. T1 the basic position of the Commonwealth..it's been a very large project.

it's been a larger project than I would ever have imagined. .it's taken 3 longer to get where we are today than I would have ever have imagined wh we started this. If the Zimmer nuclear facility is granted an operatin:

license by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission then we feel we've got to be leady when that license is granted so that we can fulfill those statutory responsibil'tes. If the Zinmer nuclear power station is not licensed for whatever reasons then we have discharged our responsibilit to that point. Let me mention one other thing to you and that is talk just a minute about how we got to where we are right now. .and there is one basic element. .so we can get back to some of the questions that yoa have that I'd like to talk about and that's the planning effort per se.

which is one element of our total effort on behalf of the citizens and with Cincinnati Gas & Electric...What we've done in the area._of_plannin

,sp_far is basically gonejmm thea eneral to the specific..if you will.

What we've had to produce, because we thought it was necessary, becausG there is certain regulations on the federal level that we want to fulfi

- has to do with. . excuse me. .three basic levels of planning. The first o is a general state generic or basic plan. This plan is for state agenc

- and basically outlines their responsibilites and gives us guidance for what we may have to do to respond to the Zimmer emergency. The second level is a site specific plan to the Zimmer plant..just like if deal with another nuclear power plant we are going to have to have a plan th specifically speaks to that facility and it's particular idiosyncrasies and characteristics. .so the second part was a site specific plan. . .and these are both unfortunately..mainly because of some of these federal regulations..quite lengthy documents that we have found that we have tci produce. Now the third level of the plan per se.. are the..is the planning that we do on the county level..and in this case we are speaki of the Campbell County plan. The Campbell County plan #s analogous to the state basic plan at our level. It's a general document..it tell the local public officials what resources they have. .what responsibilif or what a task that they must carry on if we evur have an incident at Zimmer facility. Now Mr. Voelker over here came to a public meeting tl we had. .not too long ~ago irAlexandria'at the courthou'seZI'~m not sure i any of the reitif you' Wrd'in ~atter. dance that hight. .he had some very f significant. .very insightful questionsi that we couldn't answer. .and thq some questions tonight that we're not going _to..be_able to answer..~and the reason is because we haven't got to that final level yet...and'thaf a

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Sepeembeg 29, 1961 Zimmer Ev;cultion Pirn Me ting P:g3 8 Martin the implementing procedure.s or the standard oper^ ting proc-dura that (Cont.) we must develop for each school within the ten mile emergency planning Eone so that we can ef fect_iy_e. l y_take care of the kids, which is our ultimate objective. So. .some of the questions that we're going to get into tonight and Mr. Sell is going to pore to us...we're not going to be able to give you answers tonight. I appreciate the fact that he wants to lay them before us. . .that we want to get them in the record..

that we want to make sure that we consider these and get back to you and have further meetings with you on it because this is exactly what we're here for tonight...is to identify those problem areas and try to find a way to work around them. So_,t Mhnal thing then- tha.t_we ' re tgine to do or one oL.the_.last_ items . in the. planni ng. area . .are_these .

standard operati.ng_ procedures. . .the things that we have to come to. . .

the parochial schools.and_the..public_ schools.within the.lO mila emergency planning zone or the Zimmer Zone as Mr. Sell so aptly describc

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it. . .we' ve got to come tio__you._at_some_ point,_u s it dcwn with you and tEhn talk T go back to Mr. Sell and his designees' and say..here's.what_

Efound. .here are"the Wroblems. . .here's a way we think 'we can solve .~

'- hem. .and sTfar we hhe_had_very.professio31 rslat'ionships}ith Mr.__

sell. . reasonabGationships_withli2:t and _th'e_pe_ople that we ' ve worked with. .the school board. .so far and we look forward to more of thc ss~eT So, for the"ricR.dlnd_P iell is-goingl.to . send _us_some of hisi guestions. . .we'll be glad to take down any_ questions that come- in your ~

mind and he 's going]to_

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provide _us_.al'56'with thbpe~ rec ~o'rding'.tidiiiglit' so we can 1Hs~ure'~that we_ haven't missed anybody cr. missed anything. We want to be as_ thorough _as..possible.. we_may. not .come up with a satisfact; answer in every case but I guarantee you that we'll come up with the

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answers..the b~es~t' ahswers that - -

ws~cin..under the circumstances.. =Thank yc Sell ' hank you Craig. . . . . . .Myron. . .

Reinhardt Is there a time frame. . . .in case of an incident. ..is tKere a time frame limit for evacuation...what do they have... hours...a day or depending o-wind conditions. . .is there an estimated time frame that these people ne to be removed? Does anyone know. . .Greg would you know. . . .?

Ficke Greg Ficke from Cincinnati Gas & Electric. Th,at's a difficult question to answer. . .I can _ talk about what we consider to be. . .and we call it in

- a'iot' of the documents that we've prod'uced. . .a design basis accident. . .

and it'c the accident that we' design the plant to. . .it's kind of .a maxi accident that we feel is credible at our station. Unlike some other kg of disasters that I know the Kentucky people plan for down here..such g tornadoes and floods..the design basis accident we talk about for Zimms is one that does not have any' off site consequences to the people for

- a significant period of time. . .now when I'm talking about significant periods of time..I'm talking about say from 8 to 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> until you would'nt have any off site consequences. Now that is what's called the design basis accident. There are other accidents that people can discuss and that people can bring up such as taking our 6 foot thick concrete wall that is the primary containment...the 2 foot thick second containment and assuming that that crumbles or disappears...now hose kinds of accidents we don't feel are credible accidents. . .but if you dc make that assumption that these thick concrete walls would somehow crur then you can of course have off site consequences in 'a much shorter ti:-

So it's a very difficult question to answer... depending on the assumpti that you make for the accident. . .but for our design basis accident whic

Zimmer Evrcuation Plcn M;Gting

, PIga 9 in cn cccid:nt that tha plant in d:signtd for...we'ra looking et a

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Ficks (Cont. period of hours before there would be any need for anybody even right next to the sight to take any action.

Sell Thank you Mr. Ficke for your response to Mr. Reinhardt. Without ler;;ing the topic of transportation totally I would like to site into the record that the importance of providing transportation is of the utmost

. ..and that's one of the first responses that I feel that we need. . .

where are the buses. .who's buses are they. . .who wilLha driving _them._,

~ who's available~t'O-drive %Gm. . .who's responsil21e_foLcontacting the drivers and there are about six_o_ther fringe cuestions. Now before we leave some areas Mr. Martin expressed that they are working on the very plans for a safe evacuation. I have a question for anyone at the table.

Are the stale and local emergency plans completed for submission to FEE and the NRC for approval as of this date? Does_anyone_know the_ answer?

Barry Yes, I know the answer to that. The plans are noj;_complate.d. .if you say

. .are we thwh with +-hem. . .no. . .b_e.cause__theyhot have the SOP's for s ion. . .they don't have the SOP's or standard.nperating_

procedures for activating some of the emergency operation centers in the various counties. .we don't even have some of the procedures worked out for the radiation control branch...who are technical people at the state level. All these details are not completed. Th.cy are pretty far along ..

we are submitting to the regional advisory committee. .which is composed of the federal depart =ent of transportation & health federal emergency management agency, nuclear regulatory commissions. .just any federal emergency response group. . .we are submitting our plans to them. . .they will arrive in Georgia. .or wherever they're going down there. .by the 6th of Octcber. Now these plans..they are looking at them...they are not complete. .they know they're not conpletc. .but they' re in a position where they can tell us if we're on the right track. The plans will be used with the modification. .which they will surely tell us..they will be used for an exercise that must be conducted prior to Zimmer being granted an operating license. So the plans..if you will leave out the fine details which must be in there before they get final approval..the plans are

- pretty well approved..I mean pretty well finished...when I say the plans are of a general nature. .now they are pretty well completed..but they de

- require the completion of standard operating procedures before they wil8 be approved by the federal Emergency Management Agency and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Now these plans are supposed to be reviewed by the Regional Advisory Committee..I think about the 15th of October. .they will submit deficiencies to us that. must be . corrected.

These will be corrected as soon as possible. .they may not be corrected i time for the exercise. .but af ter the exercise we will identify additiona deficiencies. These all must be in the plans before they're submitted for final review and approval by Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and that would be prior to Cincinnati Gas & Electric being granted an operating license. We expect that to be at least the earliest that we would have a final plan..would be no earli than sometime in January. .at the very earliest.

Sell Alright, how does this coincide with us going through with the schedule (I November 18, 1981 testing of the emergency plan?

Barry Well, as I said. .now the plan that we areg working on now. .the one that' submitted to FEMA. .we are calling it an interim plan. .a temporary plan

Scptember 29, 1981 '

Zimmer Evtcuation Pirn Me ting

'Pnga 10 Barry until we can get the final plan. . We hope to use it for the exercise I

(Cont.)' ifwethedon't exercise knowis for conducted sure that in it's November.

going. . .That

.if thatisdate...at a tentative date.

least .

if we do this is the plan that we would use for that time. If some parts of the plan are not completed, such as school SOP's..this will fe noted as a deficiency in the plan and it will have to be corrected before it would.

receive final approval.

Sell Thank you Mr. Barry. Mr. Ficke...a two to five mile evacuation in and around the Zimmer Zone..of course we're further out than that..in most cases. .but not' in all. . .it's approximated at one to one and a half hours to properly evacuate.Co you now understand the importance of availability of buses at our disposal that we. direct.. .that we communicate with immediately...in reference to working with Mr. Alexander and so forth. .?

Ficke Well, I think that Bob Alexander, on the county's- behalf and Craig and .

Wayne on behalf of the state are approaching the problem the only way they can. . .to take a look at what needs to be done in . terms of the child-

" ren..to see what resources are available and then developing the SOP's..

identifying the problems that exist and go from there to solve those problems. I think that's the process that we're in now',..I think those are dhe things that have to be solved before. . .as Wayne said. .the SOP's get finalized. That's the only logical way to approach the situ'ation.

Sell A,re you saying that in essence these must be finalized before you'll ever be permitted to cpen? According to NRC?...

Ficke Oh. .the schools must have. . .the schools must have standard operat.ing procedures..yes.

Sell That work?

Ficke _ Just as they have...just as they have standard operating procedures for all other disasters.

Sell Well, we've got a few of those but we're not.tco sure they'd . work. . . .

I'd also like to ask you. . . Are we prepared or will we be prepared for a

• Class '9 accident? A Class 9 for clarification is probably the most disasterous melt down or what have you that we could have if the sitt;atis arises. Will we be prepared to meet the demands on us as educators, responsible citizenry, to get our students safely out of there in case o a Class 9 disaster?

Ficke The way that the regulations are set up and the way a Class 9 accident i

- defined is really kind'of vague. You take say a Class 8 accident for example which is at the top of the accident scale. . .and we can define the accident. That is an accident that we can describe and we can plan for.

They take and they call this other Class that Mr. Sell referred to. .the Class 9 accident. ..and they say this is anything else that you can think of that might happen. It's a very ill defined set of accidents...so it would be difficult for us to plan for an accident that even the governme)s or the people who regulate us. .they can't define it..so what they have h) us do and what we have factored into the plans is what's called. .plannin for a limited spectrum of Class 9 accidents. The lidited spectrum of Class 9 accidents is what has requiredt us to install what we call a prog

~

notification system..which allows us to notify the people in the area as the people in the schools that there is an incident in progress at the

un-us wo w-c

- Zimmer Ev;cuation Plan M;; ting Pag 3 11 Ficke Zimmir Station. ..so I gu;ss in n ahort answ r to your question...wa (Cont. ) have considered a limited spectrum of Class 9 accidents in the planning because it is required by the NRC'.

Sell Alright...in reference to the limited spectrum..was Three Mile Island a Class 9 or was it an 8 to a 9?

Ficke I don't know.

Sell I believe it's commonly accepted by someone nationally that Three Mile Island was more disastrous than originally thought and in fact it was somewhere between an 8 and a 9. It's my understanding that you prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Is that how ve would be approaching DES in dealing with our local coordinator and appealing to whomever or are we beyond the appealing stage?

Ficka You could...in response to your first statement..you could probably get as many different opinions on what Three Mile Island was as you can find experts in the country on emergency planning on nuclear power..it's a subject of a lot of discussion and I guess I really can't say whether it was a Class 8 or Class 9 or whether it was even up there at that end of the spectrum. . . .but as I say the federal government does require us to plar for a limited spectrum of Class 9 accidents and that's what we're doing in our plaas. We do meet the regulations for emergency planning and that's what we' re striving to do.

Sell As I said. .we're going to plan for the worst and hope for the best..but I would not want the ca=pbell County area involved in something similar to what happened somewhere around Buffalo, New York. .I've forgotten the exact location. .I think it was around Buffalo. . .with a dump site. .when years later the disastrous nature of it was able to creep in by sterile means. . cancerous means. . or what have you. . .and that's< the reason for my Class 9 inquiry Mr. Ficke..and I would hope we are planning in that direction and I remind DES that we are gravely concerned. . . . . . .and that wasn't a Freudian slip. . . . . .it is of concern to us. . deep concern. Thank you for your response. The other questions in and around. . .yes,- Mr.

Tuttle. . . . .Mr. Tuttle f rom Grant's Lick Elementary School.

Tuttle With transportation in mir.d. . .and you've been talking about students in session in school..are there any alternate plans of transportation if students are not within. . .out of the building? Do you plan any type of transportation for the co=munity when students are at home?

Sell Isn't that part of the SOP Bob?

Alexander I would say this to you...it's one of the questions we are certa.nly i going to address. I realize that the students are not going to be in school all of the time that we must make some sort of effort and some sort of plans to take care of the situation that you're talking about.

It's one of the things that we're going to address..it has to be addressed You brought up a good point that certainly we're aware of. .but it's good to remind us of this.

Barry Now as I understand it...this is Wayne Barry again..this..you're talking about if the students are not in school..how will they be transported out of the emergency zone. ..Well if th'ey're at home the time when school's not in session we would say that generally...now this is not always true..

, generally there is transportation around to transport people. . .most peopl@

• 9 p

. fpIMrh

.Zimmer Evicuaticn Pirn Me; ting .

- Ecg3 12 Barry now have one or two or three or four ctra cnd gin 3r211y most familin 4

(Cont.) would have motor transportation but in addition to that we had hoped to

. .and it would not be a part of the school SOP as such. ..but it would bc a part of the general evacuation procedure to select routes that buses would be used to run these routes for people who did not have transporta(

to pick up people and transport then out. Now does this answer your -

question?

Tuttle Yes...who would coordinate that type of.....

Barry We'll have a public works or transportation coordinator at the emergency operation center. .he would coordinate with whoever has the ' facilities..

in this case he would work with the transportation coordinator and whoevt the superintendent designates for this school system's resources if we used those..the same thing for Kenton County..same thing for TANK. But we'll have one person in the emergency operation center that would be responsible for coordinating this effort. We,have discussed this just a little with Mr. Sell. .but we've r aver got into depths in it. .

. Sell -Any other questions pertinent to transportatio'n. .I know I have about sixteen of them that we'll submit in writing. .such as who drives..wheth" it's school or non-school. . summer, winter,f all, spring. .how we comm what's our backup cystem to communications. .this sort of' thing.

Barry Could I mention one thing else about transportation before we go on?

Sell Yes Mr. Barry..

Barry Now we are preparing a public information packet to be delivered to cacy household within the emergency planning zone. One of the things in thi(

packet will be a card that you will return to the emergency operations center..to the courthouse. .we haven't decised exactly where. . .but it -

will come into some officiel in the county that would identify any spect It could be a medical pry problems you would have with transportation.

or you could just live out someplace and don't have a close neighbor ane you don't have transportation. . .We will keep a list of these people on file and as they come in we will decide who would solve that problem..

' whether it's a rescue squad..whether it's an ambulance or whether lt wo; be a lift bus that you were discussing earlier..or whatever it would ta, to solve the problem. These will be ke.pt on file. . . .Someone comes inte visit who has a problem and they're only there for a short period of ti we would hope that you would furnish a card to this central center so that we can keep up with people with special problems.

. Sell With reference to transportation and the fact that we must prepare for alternate directional routes opposed to one another in case the wind '

factor is coming in the direction of Alexandria, the High School, the Vocational School and elementary school. Have we gone so far in our planning.as to prepare this dccument as of yet and if so may we obtain l a copy so that we can further ctudy it..do some timing of, our own accoq and make hopefully plans for even that f actor and I understand that normally the winds are going the other way. Even though when disaster l strikes you can look to Murphy's Law.

Barry Okay..in the area of alternate evacuation routes...as you know in your.

county there are certain roads that if your coming from the area of Zimmer out there-are certain roads that you're going to use. You're o

W.

Zinurnr Evicuttion. Plan Metting ,

i Ptg3 13 -

going to use 8,you're going to _use 10 and a fsw of thtaa majcr roada.. . -

- Barry .

-(Cont.) there easier-to get out on..so these would'be our primary evacuation routes..they have been designated. Now if.something happens..it could be high water. .it could be the fluce has cut us off.or it could be many different reasons..but the other roads which aren't as good as those would have to be~used and the selection of the' alternate routes would be a command decision that would be -made at that time. There is-no way that you can consider all of the different possibilities :and

.say you're going to take alternate routes..it could not be done at present.

too.many possibilities. So what we would do is..we'll have a transportatit coordinator at the emergency operation center and he will be in contact with the school superintendent..he will be in . contact with TANK.~. Chief

- Arnold who is the law enforcement coordinator and for some reason..if .

it's a langslide, high water, flume, or what have you ..they will have to choose another route based upon the best data.at that time. .We have discussed this in the past..we'see.no_other possible alternative to'it.

Martin This is Craig _ Martin again..let me add one thing .to that that I think .

'. Wayne is getting at..That kind of situation will be analagous to what we do everyday. .for example..when you have a haz rdous materials incident. We have a tank car of anhydrous 'amonia that derails and we have a leak maybe..or maybe we don't ..or on the _ highway we have a tank truck that has some chemical that derails and that blocks a' certain.

artery _ in and out of an area. What we'do in conjunction with the locall authorities and the state authorities is we immediately decide.to block that area off in case of a. hazardous material spill and decide '

the best routes to get people out of that area.and to get people Laround the area...we do it every day.with the last large example you all probab13 read about was at. the Muldrall near Louisville. .when we evacuated approx-l imately 7 or 8 thousand people for. 2 or. 3 days in a given area because of a train wreck. So it's the same type of command decision that we .

make in those situations that the local officials primarily..your electied' officials and your local organizational men will make if we have in that-example..a flume that cuts off a certain artery.

Sell As a follow-up inquiry to what you've just said Mr. Martin. .I-would just like to kno% :u soon as feasible and possible and certainly before we go

~

operational u.1 Zimmer. How do we communicate with all parties concernes in case of the need for enange. .where is the alternate site?..at this moment we are putting all of our eggs in one basket at Alexandria site and how do we divert X number of buses. .say up to 70 buses or better that are dealing only with the common and the private schools in-the Zimmer Zone. How do we reach a driver that's on a one hour route. 35 minutes into it the wind has changed directions..I hate to play the roll of the devil's advocate but it's necessary..to get that bus to turn around and j how do we pick up the remaining children on that route to get them evacuated safely? So there's still a lot of planning to be don'e. Now speaking of communications. .both with one another. .with the EOS..the DES.

the private schools and with each other in addition to all ~of our drivers and our centers for disaster purposes. It's my understanding that withis the next 30 days that the 635 number in Alexandria and southern Campbell County area will have available a means of going onto your intercom line between schools. .let's say. .that you can buy this service. I know for.a fact that the 635 numbers can'be easily rendered asunder on a morning when we're running late with 'an annouricement- of' either a I hour delay or no school..by kids just calling the 635 numbers at the schools.. tying up the ' entire exchange' just to find out if we have school or not and believs s

e e

supuumuu. c-, sua

. Zimmer Ev cu; tion Plan Menting P2ge 14 -

Sell me. .that coul'dn't ba mora than a fourth..ct th; v;ry mo;t. . cf cur (Cont. ) children. Now the wrong siren goes off and it's not the local fire-house siren. .I can assure you 'that having phone communications is going to be limited..and will CG&E install as soon as possible that type of comaunications on our phones with Brossart, with St. Mary's c

~

with St. Peter & Paul, and with each other..and hopefully to Bob's office...and by the way, who is the EOS director?

Martin What's EOS?

Barry DES?

Sell No..

Barry EOC7 Sell EOC..I'm sorry. That's strictly Bob...okay..I saw DES Bob and I was sure. We'll have to name our representatives..the private schools u

.. like to do the same thing. .and I realize that from each one of these questions stems fifteen other avenues of i'nquiry to say the least..<

I don't mean to beat a dead horse to death but. .or. . . beat a horse t death with it. .but can we get this type of service through CG&E as s as possible? Even for the emergency drill in November.

Ficke I think the way it's being approached..and once again I endorse the approach that's being taken ..is that we have agreed to provide some communications to the county for use in the schools and these ere monitor receivers which will be placed in the schools which ,will all the appropriate county disaster services to get information to the schools. It's my understanding that the standard operating procedur for the schools will be written such that the only information tha.t t needed at each of the schools is the information that's going to be caning over these radios and the standard operating procedures will written such that with the information that comes over these monitoi

' receivers that it will be pre-determined and you will know before ht what actions to take. In addition to that we are also making arrant widt the emergency broadcast system and with the NOAH weather .radic

. have emergency messages broadcast over that system..or over those l - systems. I guess we felt that our approach to getting the informat!

the schools over the monitor receivers was supplemental information the NOAH and EBS systems. .was adequate. In the develcpment of the standard operating procedures. .once again. .if it is shown that that adequate or for some reason there's a need for centinuous communicat

'between schools or between the schools and the EOC. .if that's shown real need..then we're going to have to address that problen. But it not surfaced as a problem to date. .to the best of my knowledge.

Sell Thank you Greg. .In addition to all other monitoring devices and aler systems. .I personally feel that that intercommunication line that.wc know is there for us to dial. .aside from the 635 numbers. . .because i very limited. It's like having a private line on the cable televisi for educational purposes now. .we'll get a lot of input through that, But I feel a strong need that we be able to communicate with each ot aside from any line being used or monitoring device or signaling de'.

radios or what have you. . .in addition n to those..I feel a strong neec!

it..because if the situation ever arises we've got to go to somethir

Zimmer Evacu; tion Plan Meeting Paga 15 Sall (Cont.). CB'er is strictly oura. It isn't or somebody regulatad that's by FFC..it got a radio..it isn't reliable'isn't jtaned solely by anda purel{

by batteries or what have you. ..it gives us a twofold approach .to full (

connunications in short order. We could reach nine parties quicker that way..I feel..after the initial alert...to insure people..your.

drivers are on their way...We can't get back to Bob's office..we can't get Bob's attention..because they're going to pull him 40 ways but loose <

I believe.. won't they Bob..if that ever happens? Do you think you'll come out in one piece? By the time everybody.gets through pulling?

I don't. So in the meantime it may boil down to where we're knowledgabl4 before anyone else of an inherent problem within our ranks of the school (

and we need to communicate and say..get your kids over to this school

- we're going to meet you there and we're going on across the visalia exit and.. safety first..and maybe to hell with that aspect of the plan..is what I'm saying...because we know it won't work and I can't reach him because 40 people are trying to get ahold of that man.

Alexander ~ Gene. .just off the top of my head. That.has merit and I think it should

. be investigated..and this is something we'll go back with and present it to state, CG&E..and see what can be done. I'll make no promises that it will be done but. . . . . . .

Sell Who's responsibility is it to come in and train . school related personne) from all corners..on administering medication, potassium iodine..'if that should become necessary. .and Lord forbid it. .where do we get it. .where is it stockpiled. .how much is given. .who investigates who cannot take -

it..due to allergies or any other type of reactions..where do we. get parental permission forms..who drafts them..who sees to it that they.'re legal..even though any lawyer will tell you. .a parental permission _ fcrm isn't worth the paper it's written on..because you can't sign away the right to your children. .but we do 'it because it makes us feel good. But when the disaster strikes..you know. .what's the follow. up?. My concern is not the parent that's going to sue me for administering potassium-io' dine if I know how and if I know how much and to whom or getting the kids safely out of a' dangerous situation. If things go as they are righ!

. now..they'll have to take a nucher and get in line anyway...because there are too many suits flying about.. .and the follow-up suits don't bother me either because we may not survive it to be here to be .'oed. We' .

. worry about'that when we get to it..but there are many questions on-training personnel that I think someone's got to assume the responsibilit for and the reason for so many in-depth questions maybe is simply this..

If in the final analysis I'm told as superintendent .or principal or what have you. .it's your responsibility. .what good is that answer?

Barry Okay..this is Wayne Barry again..On the quest' ion cf administering the potassiu.n iodine..which is a blocking agent to protect the thyroid gland, to prevent it from absorbing radioactive iodine. The position'of the state department for human resources is that they want potassium iodine stored for each person in the emergency planning zone. = Before it 'is used the commissioner of health and the department or bureau 'for health -

services who is a physician and always will be. .whereas the head of the department for huran resources may or may not be a doctor. ..He will authcrire the use of potassium iodine. In addition to that conceivably a county health official could say..yes, we're going to give potassium iodine. We would not see that as being a school function ever. - Never wou3d schools be authorizing and distributing that..it would be under ,

the medical authority of either the state or the county. The plan has a

. - - - --- -y-% , , , , , , , e-ge-e e m -ooaume. y** r

]

Zimm:rlEvrcuatien Plcn M sting ,

P;ga 16 Barry not been worked out. John Hoyle and Dr. Garrett down at St. k i (Cont.) say that they will assist on .the development of where we stock thio potassium iodine and how we would distribute it to the people. Now can be stored in ....there are two or three different forms of it..

but the shelf life of it is about 2 to 3 years. .I'd siy. .the kind probably be using...so it has to be rotated over a period of time..

we would probably put the stock someplace where they could be rotat!

ever so often..and we would have to still develop..that's one of thl thingsthat'snotcompleted'atthistime..adistributionsystemforsl Nowthatisnot-allthatmuchtrouble..itcouldbedone...it'ould] c done at road blocks as you evacuate the area. it could be stocked au the hospital. .it could be stecked at the police or fire station..iG not hard to store. You just have to take a reasonable amount of ca store the stoff...but the distribution would not be all that much problem..the big thing is that you have to get it to people pretty after they're exposed..otherwise it's not effective. But...again t

' school system would not be responsible for administering the potass iodine..this would be a medical problem.

Sell Mr. Barry that last statement relieved a ot from my mind. .howeverc would caution anyone that's responsible that they should do a bette job of rotating their stock.. .and I've forgotten the name ,of the pr the disaster team before in this county when I uas principal at New would come in and they had some of those. .I called them sea rations they rotated them alright..they couldn't find them. .they'd been di

. .what they did find. .a holdout from the war with Japan would not h consuned..and this sort of thing..sc I hope we're better protectedc though it's not my responsibility or yours as administrators in ar system. We'll also need to know..and this is going to take some le entanglement I suppose..What do we do when a parent flatly refuses have their child evacuated? Are we responsible morally or legally stay behind with that kid..due to their age or youthftilness. .or wha we do? We do have a few parents that fight us even on immunizatioq

. to keep from contracting smallpox. .let alons a thyroid problem. Is anyone working with the attorney general's office,or a draft for th area,or something that's suitable?

Barry This would seem like a legal question'I don't think any of us are qualified to answer that.

? Is there any lawyers here that could answer it?

Sell We have a lawyer person here..yes..as my personal consultant.. howes I don't feel that he's obligated to draft a document and if so whez

. will it be tested? Do we wait until it happens and let the' test ta

, care of itself?

? I thought we were just looking for an opinion..I didn't want to dra a document..

Sel'1 Opinions I can get out of Frankfort every Monday through Friday..nc of which are werth a diddle six days later if someone challenges it from the other side. I'm just saying..has this happened..like up a Three Mile..since the disaster..is there a chance that somebody thz attached up there could find out some"of these questions shorthandc because I hate like the dickens. .even though you will get a bill fq and I don't think $45.00 an hour is unreasonable for an attorney ir a

tibEL RG*X~hs

• Zimmer Ev2cuation Plan M;eting

- pig 2 17 Sell day cnd age. .but time. .if wa're looking ct Novrmber 18th as what (Cont. ) Mr. Barry said was the tentative date...I was told..you know..that's the date. .If we' re looking at. .what. . activating in some degree. .next July..I've known attorney's to tie things up for months in court. .I hate to even turn to one of the bloodsuckers. . .Sorry, Andy.~ Well if you just stop and think about.. .when was the only. . .or when were you ever in the presence of a lawyer in court when it was a pleasurable experience? That's why I call them bloodsuckers with all due respect.

They thrive on udsery. . .If it weren't for that they wouldn't have a

' job.. If we could operate by the Ten Commandments we wouldn't even need 'em. .

Martin We appreciate the question and we'll try to get you an Answer and do some investigation on it.

Sell I'm looking....Does anyone out there have a related.....Ron McCormick from Alexandria Elementary.

McCormick On November 18,the trial day.that we're going to try an evacuation..

How extensive is that evacuation going to be and are the students..

or if that is not the date..is there going to be trial run and how extensive will it be?

Alexander I'm Bob Alexander...for your information we do not plan to evacuate I do not feel that it is necessary..

any students from the county.

I think it's a dangerous thing to put kids on the road at any time.

Probably what we'll do. .we'll take several buses..not the school buses. .

and simulate evacuating students from a particular school. .taking them to the reception center. .either in Conner or at Grant County. .then getting a group of students at the other end to act as evacuees going through the registration and assignment of quarters process. Does that answer your question?

McCormick Yes. .that's a partial answer. .So no students will leave any of our schools is what you're saying. . . Are we. .when an emergency does occur. .and they are evacuated..how much knowledge will we have as to..for example..as principal of our school am I going with these people?..and what am I

- going to do with them when I get them there? What about my staff..are they going to be responsible for these children on the buses and if someone refuses are they going to be insubordinate?

Alexander Let me tell you this. .that's one of the problems we 're going to have to address and what we've been kicking around here as a standard procedure.

If these things happen..we have to know in there who is responsible and some line of succession of who is going to be responsible in your place and in their place and so forth. These are the things that we have to put into the standard procedures and some of the things that we h' ave to get information from you . . .I can't answer all the questions that you want to put into the SOP. Does that....

McCormick One further question. . Bob. .Is November 18th a trial date or a sample evacuation and are we going to communicate with our people at our cchool that day as to what's going on..or is it going to involve us at all..at our school?

s Barry Well . .the details of the exercise are not made known at present. . purposely. I not even the people in our officc. .there are two people who know what the 1 6

Zimmer Ev;cuntion Plan Me; ting P292 18 .

Cxarcica will con 2igt of. Greg doesn't know..a few peop12 Et..

well a couple of people at Cincinnati Gas & Electric know what th]

Barry

' (Con t. )

exercise will consist of..this will not be made p'ublic...but you k

- not probably be evacuating large numbers of people. Now what Bob l was saying is. . .may be true. .but it's speculation. . Bob doesn't knd either.

Sell Thank you Mr. Barry and Mr. Alexander.. Bob I would like to ask..q our local person..that you reconsider with the statement that it f be too dangerous and I cite to you that while I may personally be agreement with you..I feel the same way with fire, drills. 'You kn; we've got children in our buildings on crutches all the time..an9 wheelchairs. .and this sort of thing. . legally blind and what have '

but what's the validity of us being forced by the State Fire Mare:

and laws and rules of evacuating buildings when in f act until we that we can get X number on this bus..we can get the bus there ia number of minutes.. loaded and get outside the Zone and get to wha we belong. .even if we don't oc.:upy another building. .just get thr.

. with it. .or get on the other side of the Licking. .whatever. .I feo like that it's very imperative..that even though I rue the day wh we have to do it. . .and if it should be November 18th or January 3 or May 18th...before it happens I think we should all go through at least once. Now as X number of years go by we.should do it ac1 so that the vast majority of our students and 'our faculty and the! J parents and the public. . .that we find out. .what is it like to get upwards of 90 buses headed out of Campbell County in any one dire because we're going to be going in basically the same direction.

think this is advisabic that we do inconvenience ourselves and ac and literally go through it..and believe me the biggest headachec

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short of your office will be us..because the older ones and some so older will want to smoke and throw things and everything else.

there's validity to evacuating buildings. Us goipg through torna drills..justtoseeifwecanget'eminandhowlongittakesusf and a closer route..this sort of thing and I do think it's impera

..and unless comebody can tell me within the next couple of week 5 that this is being thought about and being thought 'about being dd seriously..then I want an opportunity before October the 29th t'o f approach somebody in Cincinnati when they convene..whether it's i NRC. .FFAL.or whatever they're called over there. .and make this If myself..even if every person in this room that would be responsih for it is in disagreement with me...because when the chips are dq we've got to know how it's going to work. I want to find out whq time of day your going to do it...I think we ought'to try it rigy smack in the middle of.a morning run or an afternoon run..I'd pri morning because we 're all salaried. .we don' t punch the clock. .we'

' don't know what time and a half means. .so I would prefer'right a 8 o' clock or 7: 30 in the morning. .let's see what our problems ar That's the worst situation we could be confronted with and if we could handle that . surely to high heaven we could handle it if we; in our buildings and we have these intercom lines and your servi l and everyone else's services and all the monitoring devices and ,

radios and the beepers and the what have you. I disagree strong with that point. and it's nothing personal. .I'd prefer not going I through that mess..if I'm fortunate on November 18th the Board y rendmetoameetinginAtlanta..pndwhenIgetbackI'llsay..%

did it go..and if they don't I'm going to start looking for one.;

No. . don't the rest of you do that. .somebody's got to stay home ( l

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- . Septemb:r 29, 1981 Zimmer Ev:scu; tion Plan Me: ting

- - PIga 19 Would you reconsider that point es our reprsesntativt Sell tend the' flock.

from Campbell County..end where do we turn to get it done..who does (Cont. ) have that authority...can you just tell me the name of that person because I'll call them tomorrow. ..not in deference to your job or position but just to say.. hey,I think we've crossed a wire.

Let me respond to that first and then I'll let Bob and Wayne have a Martin shot here..I'm very surprised that you've madeaf that therequest..you United States may be the only superintendent in the historyIt's an interesting and the Zimmer situation that's done that. _

' request..I would ask you to think it over..to draft a letter if you feel that way..with your reasons and the why and wherefores about and send it to us and let us talk to you about it and examine it and we may have some experience in the area that we can share with you that might influence your decision. Bob...

Alexander My chief concern about mock cvacuations is that...that I'm t Hovement saf ety more than anything..that's what prime in my mind.

of children is sometimes difficult...I've been on school know what children are capable of and that is the only reason that I submit it to you..that I felt like a dummy bus or two would be sufficient rather than evacuate a school and put them on the route and send them to Bonne County or whatever. ' If you feel like you wag this..if you feel like this is what your principals and school I don'tboare see or whatever. . requires this. .we can do it. .no problem.

any problem...do you Wayne?

There's one problem...if we evacuate 90 buses we're goinghtto Barry to another school system. ..and if that school is in session at t a time this would disrupt their operation too.'em.

to Grant or to...take 'em to Grant County High..'or you can take d to Conner High School which would be the t

. is I would not advocate that we disrupt the other buildings because i to be Sell i

. case of an actual incident I don't think that the drill. . .I don't know. . .I may get back and have the administrators meeting Thursday at 10:30 and find out th going through with it that bothers me. fal)

Aviation Commission or whatever. .FAA. . doe'sn't cause a plane to from the sky to test it on the ground. . .how do you respond. .b they're scrapin' 'em~up. Here it's savin' did you have a point to make...

I'm Bill Voelker.. .I get misquoted a lot in the paper but I also Voelker get a lot of phone calls from the people tha damn shame that the human race puts something up like this th have to prepare so much for...that it could do so much damage dn wic

. .but I get questions from parents. ..what are you going to f my kids...and my first question is...is there any possibility io public hearing where we're going to tell th ll

1. to take thdm. .but I want someone f rom CG&E an

Zimmer Evzcuation Plan Megting Fag? 20

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voelk;r thm pzr;nte...ya w;'ra taking this rzponribility becuus (Cont.) the ones that. ..the agency that's handling this. I want to know there a public meeting set up to meet with parents of the kids a' my school. . .because they're very concerned. . .what are you going do with my kids. . .they are concerned. . .and just wh,at Mr. Sell sa

..what's the sense in having this activity on November 18th if p not going to. . . .you know. .just going to load ' em up on buses. .th going to take it as a joke. I think the parents would just as s say. .let's go through and see what it's going to be like~. If it going to be a Chinese fire drill.. .by the time that phone startC ringing...I think I read in the paper or heard someone say at on of the meetings. . .in times of emergency everyone pulls together.

well they pull together but they usually have their kids right u their wing when they're doing it.. .If my child is in another sch and there's an emergency...I'm going to look for my child and to

- heck with everyone else's. .because that's my blood and blood's thicker than water... . . People do not pull together until they ge all their chicks in under their wing.'..and I think those things

', to be addressed. We'll need to have communications with those buses. . . .at 7:30 in the morning I have 6 buses on their way to South Middle School and Campbell County High School. If that al is pulled and we have to get those buses back. . .how are we goinc stop and tell those drivers. . bring those buses back. We aren't going to get to them. . .we have to be able to pick up something a

' call them back and get them on the road. We have to have a twod communication with each bus. .not just one or two. .but with each that's in this county. . . .There are so many questions that need 3 be asked and answered that I think a public meeting with each st involved...my school I think is very much interested in what's k on and I feel like a public meeting is very advisable. One was

- up in March or April..wasn't it Bob..before the Urban Renewal Pi in Newport that drug Mr. Alexander down' there. Jhose things ha,

~-" ' be addressed and it can't be me meeting before those parents te:

. .because I don' t have all the answers. .I feel like you all are ones. .the experts working with it. .you've seen it. .what's going with it. Also a question is....has there been any kind of stud 1 as to where there are other nuclear plants. .how often has a fal:

' alarm been given out because of a malfunction on a computer or <

. malfunction that's caused on a fault. Is this a yearly thing c:

does it happen often...has there been any study to that? Those concerns I .get hit with every day. .that there's something with Zimmer in the paper..and the latest. .the poor construction qual

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. .my phone rang three or four times about that. .you know. .have read this one. .I guess they feel like I should have the answers because I'm within five miles of it..This is the kind of thing <

have to deal with..There's a lot of questions..you know..

Barry I'd like to take a stab at one part of it that I think is very interesting..about the public..do we meet with the public o'r no Now it was our contention. .and of course this is only our viewp that we are working with the school system to develop an emer.c a standard operating procedure. .It is your standard operating p ure. .we are assisting you in developing it. .it's not going to b ours. .it will be yours. We have some ideas on things that shot go in it. .we need to discuss it gwith you because you know exact what needs to be done in the county. .and we don't. .we're not fandliar with it. The way that you would develop that SOP. .who

5eptembes 29, 1981 Zimmer Evccuation Plan Mesting pig 3 21 Barry you would ask us to go around and talk to each principal or (Cont.) whether you would forn a committee and once we drafted something what do we do with it..does the superintendent approve it..do we take it to the citizens and so forth..these are the things that have to be decided-here..whatever you would like to do..we have no preference.. any way that you want it is the way we want to do it.. .but we would be happy to assist you in a public meeting such as you're discussing to explain it to the parents if that's what you wanted to do. .and I'm sure that Cincinnati Gas & Electric

'would support that.

Martin This is Craig Martin again..there's also a part here Mr. Voelker and that is ..we need to look at some of the questions and have something rational and organized for the parents to look at..we can't go in front of them like this and field questions all night and go home and wonder what went on the next day..We've got to come

. and work with you folks first and put something down..right or

. wrong. .and when you're satisfied. .Mr. Voelker. .that that SOP is what you want to see at your school..that's the time I think we might go to the parents and let them. .and let you say to them. .

these state officials and myself have spent a considerable amount of time on this and we think it's pretty good. .but we want your opinion and your view. I think that's the~ sequence we've got to go in. Do you agree?

Voelker Yes. . . .these are all questions that I'm getting hit with. .as to uhat's going on and I don't have the answers. None of us do at-this point. .you all don' t have them because they're not written yet..but those are things that need to be considered when we get tc that point. The other thing is the cost. .I get hit with it i .you k who's going to pay for all these extra things. .and they say. .you know..our co== unity doesn't receive any of the generated power..you know..why should we pay for this out of the taxpayers money...CG&E should be responsible for the whole nine yards..is what I'm hearing Martin Unless I'm mistaken. .I..you won't be paying 'for it out of taxpayers money.

Voelker I mean all the extra expense..you know..that..this is what the community people are telling =e. .you know. . hew is this all being paid for..if you do need extra' huses or if you do need telecommunic ^

systems. . .how is this paid for. . .That's what the concerns are and those are things I'm wanting for my community.

Sell I think in .tdue final analysis..we're sitting in Kentucky.. Campbell County. .and what's happened is this. .Since the war and the developr of nuclear energy,the federal government..us through our federal representatives..have authorized private industry or not to establi and build plants such as Zimmer. .but it's boiling down to. . hey. .the of you that are in and around it..it's your responsibility to figu:

how to get away from it in case of a serious problem..that part we have to do..because no one. .it's quite evident..if we were sitting D.C. . .that we' re going to get the same answer. .because coming to meetings..when you've got anti and pro forces..these will go on and on and on and maybe that's the intent of the anti-nukes but I don't think the anti-nukes are going to do us any more good here than wha was done in California this past week..and there it was delayed bec n om. ~ . . .-e- .

September 29, 1961

• Zimmer Ev cu;ti n Pl:n Melting pign 22 Sell of a type crack or comething. W; ara cndd1 d with a (Cont.) certain amount of responsibility for self preservation only if no other reason. .but..when we do ask for service..just like this

..if it should be the decision after Thursday. .again..to go for full evacuation..as grevious as that sounds..You know what you':

putting on yourself if you vote favorably for it. ..Then we've gc to have a contact person. .whether it's Craig.. Bob. .Barry. . or even Mr. Ficke..and I don't think that Greg is stuck with repres CG&E entirely. .he's an c=ployee of theirs. .just like we're empic of the system. . And we will find out who's going to pay for it..

what. .within 30 days. .is that a reasonable time -trame? . . .I mea:

if I give you a bill tonight for $1,393.17..can I' expect paymen1 within 30, 40, 60 days?

Martin Watch this...I don't know..

Sell - This is what we're up against..these , guys are going through som new too. .Have you opened and evacuated an area yet.. involving

• nuclear energy? ,

Martin None involving nuclear energy..

Sell Okay. .. they're learning the same as we are. .and I don't want a of the four tonight to feel like that any portion.of this is anything except. .We've got to have someone to ask and since the willing to come and answer what they can and go back and find c what they can't and come back again. .my final cor=ent to th'em s ~

be. .I hope you like Northern Kentucky. .because I have a sneakir suspicion you're going to spend a lot of time up here.

Barry We've seen a lot of it in the last year. < -

Sell Because this is just the beginning folks. .you see we're all lea and as we ask one question we think of fifteen others. . .Ronnie '

one question. .you know that's a whole days work I believe. .that here..what it will mean back in the office fellas..I really dor know. - Let me glance through a couple other prepared questions.

on 25 out of the second packet. .and this is only about the fou:

or fif th question. .so. .they' re grouped together. .we may as wel]

in other areas when we get to them. . . . .

Bill.. question 27..Who's responsibility is it to inform the pa;

. .I trust that neither Mr. Barry nor Mr. Martin were saying. .i essence..it's ours. It's curs to set up and tell you when we

going to have a meeting at night and it's up to you all to get and try to. . .or is it CG&E. . .or is it Mr. . . . .it's Bob. , Bob do realize how many schools you're going to have to serve. .I don

think there are enough nights in the week to get us all in in <

week.

Alexander Bill and I have discussed this at great length last spring and had reached some sort of agreement when the Newport blast hit here and I was taken of f of it for 30 days or longer and we cc not get back to you during the current school session..but I 2 we had some good ideas at that particular time. .how this meets should be conducted and what we needed in the way of handout m to inform the parents of the students being evacuated. I do k

. Zimmer Ev;custion,Plin Meeting Pigm 23 -

1 Alsxtndsr thst sinca wa have talksd..CGGE has..or is in th2 proc 22s of (Cont. ) developing a packet of information th'at we could certainly use.

There's no reason why we couldn't discuss your SOP at that particular time. . .cause I'm sure that you'll have a lot of questions that I can't even think of. -Now I could probably come up with a draft of some sort of SOP for you to. follow..but it's going to be up to you and I to sit down and we're going to have a lot of questions and a lot of things to put on paper. .I'm going

. to have to go back to the state for some decisions and you'll probably have to go to your school superintendent for some decisions. This is not going to be an overnight process..I don't think anybody here thinks that..and then in turn I'm going to have to go to another school in Campbell County and repeat the same thing.. hopefully after the first one we nay have learned something. Are you in agreement with that?

"oelker ,

If that's the only way we can do it. . .

Alexander We have discussed...we have talked about this last spring...

Voelker You have to inform the public..because they are really..they need to find out what we're doing Alexander I think the state. .and I'll speak for myself. .that I'd be happy

to attend one. .to do what I can to explain what I know about the situation and the things that I can't answer I'll find out for you. That's all I can promise you.

Sell I think Bob has probably hit into the next question.. . . .If after we have done these things and the decisions are made by whomever or the powers that may be..if as superintendent of the schools I'm not satisfied..in working with the administrntive team. .and recruiting people and securing answers..if we're not satisified at all..where do I turn next for help.. legally whom do I approach

..can I become an intervener with somebody of authority..are we beyond the realm of challenging..I know we're not beyond the realm of questioning or we wouldn't have agreed to meet tonight..but

'who's the next person that I go to to try and get an answer?

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Barry I'd say you go co the county judge executive and if you go to Frankfort you'd go to our boss. .he works for politicians. .so 'he's. .

Sell I realize Mr. Barry you've got to give me the answer.when you knew it but Lord I hated the answer. Going to the county judge on anything..with no disrespect towards present, past, or future judges. .if this becomes politically embroiled in any county. .in any state.. Lord help us..

Barry Well he's the boss of the DES. .that's why I said you'd go to him.

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Sell Okay..then Bob you understand why I said there's no disrespect s intended there..but trying to get ahold of the county judge at

' times can create a problem. The same as trying to get ahold of me or the building ' principal. .can create a problem. . .

e Barry . .and I'll tell you another. . .

O s

Zimmer Evacuntion Plan Me. ting-Paga 24 -

'Sall ...and tima' inn't on our side with that..we're gatting.reidy for an election.

Barry . There is a nuclear issues committee in the state legislature and Jim Bunning is the chairman of it. I'd say he is very interysted in what's going on..I don't know your politics and don't care..

but at' least he is aware of the people who live here and their desires. He would be a person you could certainly contact that would have authority.'.he can get something done in Frankfort. If you want something from that level.

Sell Okay. .if that doesn't . work and we want to put a halt to t$ie processes in order to assure us that we can evacuate and all..who's the person that could stop. . . .I don't think there's any one person available. . .

is there?.because it's all regulated and so forth.

Barry Well the gov'ernor. . .you could go to the governor. .the governor can.. ,

, Sell But how do we stop the operation across the river in Ohio? He

,' can't even get the boundry where it belongs.1 Barry NRC is the only one that says you can stop it over the're. . .

Sell NRC is the answer then?

Barry Yea, for a starter...

Sell Your talking about guys like Charlie Barth? -

Barry I don't know who I'm talking about. .but they work for NRC whoever.

they are. They are the ones that have the final, decision.

Sell Is CG&E going to Bethesda, Maryland anytime soon? I'd like to ride up and meet those. people......That is in essence the gr'oup or type of questions' that I ha'd . for this evening. Totally between Myron's packet and my own we have 50 some or 40 some and we're ,

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. 'just startinc..ahd tonight's answers created some questions. Is l ,

there anyone that has a general type question or a specific type -

question that they'd like to' ask. any of these four men tonight?

I Mr'. McConnick from Alexandria Elementary. . .

McCormick I have one other comment. I'm a little bit distressed after being

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here this evening. .to the peint that Nov' ember 18th we cculd have a tentative evacuation and here it is about six weeks away and we're starting to work on our standard operating procedures for that

evacuation. It just seems like there are not going to be enough hours between now and then to get that job done. I'm concerned '

about that time limit.

Martin This is Craig Martin again. .I'd like to ask a ~ question of Mr. Sell

..I've been waiting all night to do this. Mr. McCormich that's a very valid point and I certainly wish that we had more time to do it itwe go with the assumption that an exercise is going to be ,

held in November and that's certainly what we're pointing towards right now. We had discussed before to lay before you all and Mr. Sell the idea of forming some kind of committe.1 that we could o

e n

r .. ..

. September 29, 1981 / i Zit:cer Evacuation Plan' Mesting Paga 25 ,

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s Martin appoint of a number of people..whoever y6u would decide..that (Cont. )

we could come back to. start talking about some of thel specifics','

the SOP's.. report to that c'ommittee.. help them..and then from' that point maybe we can get into 'the kind of ihing Mr. Vo,eiker's' talking about. So I guess my question is..when can we form a y committee..when can we come back and ses you and how much time '

can you devote to this in the near futurJf We'd like to get o'n-

,1 with it and work like the dickens if we can to answer '

' your ^

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, questions and get the job done.

Q' -

Sell I'm glad you asked the question.. N Martin Identify yourself.. d'

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Gene Scll. . .My qesti;n. . .my question numb'er 30 was . .and' I didn't -

Sell When, wher(and /

ask it because we hW. discussed it earlier. '

with whom will we meet again? Your. answer IM. Martin )k. thiF.f" if I'd like to have a committee of nine re' presenting the prinefp21shi6s?' 7'

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of each school that must be evacuated, Mr'..Rcinhardt and my'splf. -

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Now when I say of the schools to . 5e evacuated. .Mr. Seit?cr y has already agreed to serve the three privatG schools..there in, close proximity. .they communicate quite frequently and tie 3tmedrs at St. Peter & Paul.. 62 chil'dren are important..we'9ydcaling That may-b fw~hy- with ,

the smallest numbers is'sny'given building there. -

Mrs. Scanlon has relied upon Tom or ene of us to communicite-back ,

tonight.

But I think that the next meet .ng d needs to be sometime' - ' ' ' ,

next week if at all possible. We will discuss;this. and Bob you're ,

invited to attend our administrative . team me.ehng at.10:  % . Martin,-

30,thi's ~

Thursday in the board room..nt the board offigo.

Mr. Barry, Mr. Ficke, >Mp. ' Alexander. .the four of you sre invited

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to attend if you wish. .although it'vlll just be pecer.nplishing the -

If you think,thAt wculd be. beneficial te youC same thing. .

imple=entation of the SOP you're more than welcome. Do

' .Andy.

that answer.as '

consultant to my office. .you too (h .i'nvited. ' ,

enough of your question?' ,

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e , ;s Martin Yes  : s -

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<' , V Wou'td the four of/you care Sell Alright,any other general questiens?

to make any general type statements?

Agil[a I w651d' hope we could close on this note..the nature of our questi'ons sopetic es putis us

• in what appears to be in .the wrong lake with the wrong oars in the ~

We're in this together ind I say-water and tcat isn't the case. You that even though a couple of you are located' in Frankfort. So.we could be here when it happens and'we're going to need you. s are in this together and we'll come6ut of it together somehow, -

I- do not feel that we can come ont b'f i'c notally unscathed as far as feelings are concerned. I don't think I we'nt into it that wey -

. .I don't know how you feel about it hhat's your personal [ feelings.. ~,

but professional in my responsibilities..we r.ust get some answers and get 'em soon..and we do If have some hairy problems tq werk out.

not, ne appreciate your.attcntion Anything else from anyone?

and your attendance and as I said in the opening moments. .this is the beginning. We are trying't9 avert or avoid the end.

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