ML20237D467
| ML20237D467 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Seabrook  |
| Issue date: | 12/16/1987 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#188-5316, CON-#188-5321 ASLBP, OL, NUDOCS 8712230285 | |
| Download: ML20237D467 (151) | |
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UNHEU STATES -
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NOS: 50-443-OL 50-444-OL PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF OFF-SITE NEW HAMPSHIRE, ET AL. EMERGENCY PLANNING (Seabrook Station, Units 1 and 2) 4 LIMITED APPEARANCES g.
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LOCATION: CONCORD, NEW HAMPSHIRE PAGES: 8103-1 to 8103-149 DATE: WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 16, 1987 i
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. .j, Heritage Reporting Corporation 1
Of0cial Reporters '
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Wunington. D.C.,20005 1202) 628-4888 3
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1 UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ,
2 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 3
4 In the Matter of: )
) Docket Nos.
5 PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF ) 50-443-OL NEW HAMPSHIRE, et al., ) 50-444-OL
, 6 ) OFF-SITE EMERGENCY (SEABROOK STATION, UNITS 1 AND 2) ) PLANNING 7
8 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENTS 9
Wednesday, 10 December 16, 1987 11 Hall of Representatives New Hampshire Statehouse 12
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Concord, NH 13 The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, .
14 pursuant to notice, at 3:00 p.m.
15 BEFORE: JUDGE IVAN W. SMITH, CHAIRMAN l 16 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 17 Washington, D.C. 20555 l
18 JUDGE JERRY HARBOUR, MEMBER j Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 19 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 20 JUDGE GUSTAVE A. LINENBERGER, JR., MEMBER 21 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board
. U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 22 Washington, D.C. 20555 1
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24 25 l
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8103-2 1 APPEARANCES: ,
2 For the Applicant:
3 THOMAS G. DIGNAN, JR., ESQ.
GEORGE H-. LEWALD, ESQ.
4 KATHRYN A. SELLECK, ESQ.
Ropes & Gray 5 225 Franklin Street Boston, MA 02110 6 -
For the NRC Staff:
7 SHERWIN E. TURK, ESQ. .
8 Office of General Counsel U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9 Washington, D.C. 20555 10 For the Federal Emergency Management Agency:
11 H. JOSEPH FLYNN, ESQ.
Federal Emergency Management Agency 12 500 C Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20472 13 For the State of New Hampshire:
14 GEORGE DANA BISBEE, ASST. ATTY. GEN.
15 GEOFFREY M. HUNTINGTON, ESO.
State of New Hampshire 16 25 Capitol Street Concord, NH 03301 17 For the Commonwealth of Massachusetts:
18 JOHN TRAFICONTE, ASST. ATTY. GEN.
19 STEPHEN H. OLESKEY, ESQ.
ALAN FIERCE, ESQ.
20 Commonwealth of Massachusetts "
One Ashburton Place, 19th Floor 21 Boston, MA 02108 .
22 For the New England Coalition Against Noclear Pollution:
23 (No appearance) .
24 25 Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
.8103-3 1 APPEARANCES: (Continued) ,
2 For the Seacoast Anti-Pollution League:
3 ROBERT A. BACKUS, ESQ.
Backus,.Meyer, & Solomon 4 116 Lowell Street Manchester, NH 03105 5
JANE DOUGHTY
. 6 Director Seacoast Anti-Pollution League 7 5. Market Street Portsmouth, NH 03801
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9 For the Town of Hampton:
10 MATTHEW T. . BROCK, ESQ.
Shaines & McEachern 11 25 Maplewood Avenue P.O. Box-360 12 Portsmouth, NH 03801, 13 For the Towns of Hampton Falls and-North Hampton and South Hampton:
14 ROBERT A. BACKUS, ESQ.
15 Backus, Meyer & Solomon l 116 Lowell Street 16 Manchester, NH 03105 17 For the Town of Amesbury:
1 18 (No appearance) 1 19 For the Town of Kensington:'
20 SANDRA F. MITCHELL 21 Civil Defense Director- .
. Kensington, NH 03827 22
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I 8103-4 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENTS ,
2 Statement oft Page i
3 Annette B. Cottrell, Box 1487, Hillsboro NH 03244 j 4 Mimi Fallon, 3 Ocean Drive, Seabrook Beach NH 5 Dennis Kelley, 75 Lafayette Road, Salisbury MA 01952 6 Ruth Murphy, 41 Great Bay Drive, Greenland NH 03840 -
7 Thomas B. Hayes, 12 Campton Street, Seabrook NH 03874 8 Ann Arnold 9 Patricia Farley, 49 Eppiag Road #3, Exeter NH 03833 10 Barbara James, Wentworth Hill Ct. Street, Exeter NH 03833 11 James R. Rosencrantz 12 Lynn Hodges 13 Hobart Livingston 14 Herbert A. Fox 15 Susan Gates 16 Frederick H. Anderson, Jr., RFD 2, Box 308, 17 South Hampton NH 03827 18 Frank Kramer 19 Charles Pratt 20 David Slesinger 21 Bruce Montville .
22 Paul Gunter 23 Joann Hubbard 24 25 i
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8103-5 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENTS ,
2 Statement of: Page:
3 Richard L. Kaufmann, Physics Dept., Univ. of New Hampshire, Durham NH 03824 4
John Loder 5
Wesley Crocheron, Chocorua NH
. 6 Rep. Robert Cushing 7
. Norma Belt 8
Thomas Moughan 9
Geoff Hubbell 10 Cornelia Iselin 11 Jeanne Fox 12 Nancy Hirshberg 13 Shelley Nelkins 14 Jack Lightfoot 15 Dan Smart 16 Douglas Smart 17 Stephen Comley, Box 277, Rowley MA 01969 18 Laura Ricard 19 J. Wilcox Brown 20 Kevin Larmand
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Carol Carstarphen 22 Mary Jensen 23 Betsy Janeway. .-
24 Edward Sheldon 25 Debbi Johnstone Heritage Reporting: Corporation-(202) 628-4888
8103-6 1 LIMITED APPEAFANCE STATEMENTS 2 Statement oft Page:
3 Michelle Petillo 4 Joel Potter 5 Joe Golden
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6 William Gilligan .
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9 10 11 12
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'8103-7 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 JUDGE SMITH: Ladies and gentlemen, this is the time 3 that we have set aside for limited appearance statements. I 4 noted that quite a few people have been in the audience, 5 members of the general public, listening to the testimony this
. 6 afternoon.
7 I might explain that you just heard the testimony of
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8 Drs. Donald Zeigler, James H. Johnson, and Stephen Cole, who 9 are' sociologists who were presented by the Attorney General of 10 Massachusetts on two basic contentions that have been raised by 11 Interveners in this case. The first point that they were 12 making, as you could probably infer, was that there-would be 13 overresponse to emergency broadcast messager,, therefore 14 Interfering with evacuation; and the'other: point was that there 15 would be an abandonment of duties by people who have been 16 designated that responsibility in emergencies. They have been 17 testifying for some. time, all day yesterday, for the most part, 18 and until now.
19 They have run over, and we've run past the time that 20 we'd hoped to get to limited appearance statements.
21 as you can tell from our name tags, I'm Ivan' Smith.
22 I'm the Chairman c f this Panel, and - to my right ' is Judge 23 Linenberger, and to my left is Judge Harbour, who are scientist-24 members of the Panel.
25 I think it is well known that we are here hearing Heritage Reporting- Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-8 1 contentions on the emergency, off-site emergency planning,, and 2 particularly evacuations, and other protective actions with 3 respect to the Seabrook Nuclear Power Station, and with 4 particular respect to the New Hampshire emergency plans.
5 The massachusetts emergency have not been yet set for 6 hearing. ,
7 There have been some questions put to us indicating
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8 confusion as to what the events will be this afternoon, and how 9 1" came to be that -- what is happening.
10 As nost everybody knows, we have heard now from 11 representatives of the communities in the emergency planning.
12 zone. We have received many hundreds of letters from those who 13 are interested in the issues. We have heard in earlier years 14 from anybody who wishes to be heard on these issues. This is 15 the sixth week of hearings, hearing weeks, that has transpired, 16 and we've listened to these issues for many, many witnesses, 17 approaching now perhaps nine to 10 thousand pages of 18 transcript.
19 And as we near the end of the evidentiary hearing, it 20 seemed that it was possible for us to accommodate oral, -
21 personal limited appearance statementa.from those whom we felt 22 were most directly affected by the issues that we're hearing.
1 23 We have been urged to do this by many officials in New 24 Hanpshire, the Executive Department of the State of 25 Massachusetts, and we ourselves think it's an appropriate thing j Heritage Reporting ' Corporation l (202) 628-4888
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8103-9 1 to do. ,
2 We have received in the mail many requests to make 3 limited appearance statements, hundreds. We went through every 4 request that we could locate. We have an office back here; I 5 noted that there were a-couple that I'd overlooked, but we went
. 6 through hundreds of requests to make limited appearance 7 statements, all three'ot us; went through them not once, but 8 several times. We spent many hours at it.
9 Because this is emergency planning, evacuation, 10 emphasis affecting the emergency planning zone, we wanted to 11 give priority to those requesting an opportunity to make 12 statements to those who actually reside in the emergency 13 planning zone.
14 In that there was also emphasis on this-proceeding on 15 the New Hampshire emergency plans, we wanted to be sure that 16 those who are particularly affected by it were given an 17 opportunity. As far as we know, and we've made strong efforts, 18 a repeated effort -- we've duplicated our work, replicated our 19 work at least two times -- every person who lives in the New 20 Fampshire emergency planning zone who requested an opportunity 21 to appear in writing who has not previously spoken to the Board 22 and whose name and address we could identify, and as far as we 23- know, everybody has been invited. We don't know of anybody who.
24 was omitted.
25 As to Massachusetts, there were many, many more, and Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
1 8103-10
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1 we thought what we saw to be a pattern of organized effort.s to 2 send cards in, and there was an unusual number of people from 3 Newburyport, from Amesbury, I believe, and from Rowley, 4 Massachusetts, very large number. We filled'out the list, for 5 the most part, on a random basis; we just took those at random.
6 It wasn't a scientific random,'it was just there they are, we -
7 picked some out at random.
8 In addition to that, the Board has invited some 9 people that we felt had -- just a'few people ,'two or three 10 that come to our mind - .that we thought had unusual 11 opportunity to address the issues, who have requested'that.
12 And finally, we just put in, simply put in,'a 13 sprinkling of people from around New Hampshire and the area.
14 Concord seemed to be rather heavily represented in the 15 requests.
16 We wills begin by taking in the order they have.
17 signed up those who have been invited this afternoon. If 18 they've been given an. opportunity to speak, we will -- some 19 question about whether counsel is free to leave or not?
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20 MR. TRAFICONTE: Yes. Yes, there is.
l 21 JUDGE SMITH: .I think we can. assure you that we will 22 not return to taking evidence this afternoon. There have ben 23 enough sign-ups that that will not. happen. .There will only,
- 24 for the rest of this afternoon and today, I mean, this evening, 25 we will take only limited appearance statements, nothing else, l
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s 8103-11 1 MR. TRAFICONTE: We were under'the impression t,he 2 Board wanted someone representing each of the parties to be 3 present during this.
4 JUDGE SMITH: That's up to you. .I think that one of 5 the purposes of limited appearance statements is to see if a
. 6 point is being raised by.the limited appearance statement as to 7 which one of the parties might want to pursue in an evidentiary ;
8 framework. But that's up to you.
9 If anything is' raised that the Board wants to pursue, 10 we will do it ourselves. But the point we were. making is I 11 know that attorneys have been working very, very hard in this 12 case, and they still-have a lot of work to do, and I don't want 13 to require their presence here when we will not be taking any 14 record evidence. We'll be taking only limited appearance 15 statements.
16 So we will begin with the order of sign-up those who 17 were invited, and if that list is exhausted, we will begin with 18 the sign-up of those who were not invited'and.who signedithe 19 list, providing that they have not previously' spoken, with one 20 or two exceptions that we've made, which we will explain at the.
21' time. .
o 22 What we will ask is that'those.who wish to make a 23 statement use this microphone,-and we will call off:the next 24 person who is to be expected to speak,.and that. person-will be
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25 ' asked to'be immediately ready on the bench behind the. 1 Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-12 1 microphone. ,
2 If you have brought a written version of your 3 statement, please hand it to the Reporter.' It makes it much 4 easier to transcribe.
5 The first person that is signed up is -- who.has been 6 invited -- is Ms. Annette B. Cottrell. -
7 The next. person who has been given an invitationLis 8 Mrs. Fallon, and I might say that:ehe's spoken-before, but-9 we've made a special invitation to Mrs. Fallon because she has .
10 been at this hearing virtually every day, and has:done-a 11 tremendous amount of research on the issues'that we are hearings, and we believe that someone who's made such a strong.
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12 13 effort to understand the issues here and contribute to.cxu: body 14 of information should be given that opportunity, and that-has 15 ben the case with Mrs. Fallon.
16 And you will be next, Mrs. Fallon.,
17 MS. COTTRELL: Thank you --
18 MR. TRAFICONTE: LYour Honor, before this process 19 begins, could we ask that the person identify themselves with 20 an address?
21 In light of your comments about-the potential for 22 information that we might want to explore, if itLhappened.
23 JUDGE SMITH: I beg your pardon?L 24 MR. TRAFICONTE: In the event that there's 25 information that the parties might want to' explore with.the
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8103-13 1 witness, we -- otherwise, they're going to say something,,
2 they're going t o leave, and we're not --
3 STATEMENT OF ANNETTE B. COTTRELL 4 MS. COTTRELL: I-am Annette Cottrell from Hillsboro, 5 New Hampshire.
. 6 I want to thank these' gentlemen for giving'me the 7 opportunity to offer a limited public appearance statement at 8 your hearing today.
9 For 14 years I have been presenting statements before 10 you about Seabrook, in Hampton, Portsmouth, and now here. My 11 conviction over the' years has not changed, but intensified with 12 the arguments submitted by Public Service Company of New 13 Hampshire and your responses to them. This. year I have l 14 listened to. testimony from local officials who have 5one'stly 15 tried to review the feasibility of evacuation.on their terms.
l 16 In all cases, you must admit the-evidence has been damning, i
17 Increasingly, there are.those who say you have.tried -
18 to bend the law to gain ycnur objective, the startup of ' the 19 plant, in the face of these' local objections, and the chilling 20 example of Chernobyl's. aftermath. . We, the. taxpayers of Public 21 Service Company, and most urgently, defenseless citizens of New 22 Hampshire and Massachusetts beg you to abandon this suicidal 23 project and recommend conversion to alternative forms'of 24 energy.
l 25 Bankruptcy and conversion are surely cheaper in the Heritage.-Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-14 1 long run, and by that I mean the cost of waste disposal, ,
2 decommissioning, and surveillance for uncomputed millenia, let 3 alone inevitable accidents.
4 One more point. Specifically, there is growing 5 evidence that conversions of both reactors to natural gas would 6 be the best route from the standpoint of all parties concerned, .
7 including investors, owners, and~the general public.
8 Thank you.
9 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
10 we've rechecked our list of those who have appeared, 11 and we have no record of you having appeared before. It's the 12 first speaker right off the bat, there's an error in our 13 record. But we went through the transcript of every. person 14 who's ever appeared, and your name doesn't appear on it.
15 Did you actually appear before the Board?
16 MS. COTTRELL:. Yes,-I think I did, in Hampton way 17 back in 1973 --
18 JUDGE SMITH: Oh, all.right. Our records didn't go 19 back that far.
20 MS. COTTRELL: I was talking about 14 years._ '
21 JUDGE. SMITH: Yes, ma'am. .
22 MS. COTTRELL: Actually, I have.been concerned for 20 23 years.
24 JUDGE SMITH: All right. Well,'we certainly 25 appreciate your coming, and thank-you, i
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1 8103-15 1 MS. COTTRELL: Shall I leave'you this?
2 JUDGE SMITH: If you don't mind. It's optional. It 3 would be helpful if you did.
4 Mrs. Fallon.
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5 STATEMENT OF MIMI FALLON 6 MS. FALLON: Thank you, Judge Smith.
7 I am a rssident of Hampton Beach near --
8 JUDGE SMITH: Would you give your name, please?
9 MS. FALLON: Okay, thank you.
10 My name is Mimi Fallon, and I, according to the US 11 postal authorities, live at 3 Ocean Drive, Seabrook Beach, 12 directly between the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant and the 13 Atlantic Ocean. However, as I told you before, I am a resident 14 of Hampton Beach. I pay my taxes to Hampton, and the police 15 and the fire department come to us across that bridge.
16 I also am a grandmother of four and a mother of six.
17 Since I live directly between the plant and the 18 ocean, and we're separated from the rest of the town, there is 19 kind of a funny feeling. We feel isolated. We're physically
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20 isolated, and also very emotionally isolated from the rest of 21 the town. .
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22 I think the other thing that I want to remember to 23 say is that not only do we -- are we physically separated from 24 the town, but that if we need the fire department to come'to us l 25 they have to come to us across the bridge. We're pretty far l
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8103-16 1 away from the rest of the -- our authorities. And because,of 2 this, many of the area residents have banded into a small group 3 called Sun Valley, and at one point we were attempting to be 4 interveners in this evacuation hearing.
5 Through all these things that have been occurring, I 6 guess I want to mention most of all that I have ben considered- .
7 anti-nuclear, and I would like to state here for one and all to j 8 hear that I am only anti-Seabrook. I have never been against 9 all nuclear power plants int he country. I am pro-nuclear 10 defense; I am very glad that Pease Air Force Base is up there, 11 and I'm very glad the naval shipyard is up there.
12 These things all enter into how I really feel about 13 this. The reason I'm involved about this is the fact that I am 14 a mother and a grandmother, and I worry about the safety 15 factors, and I know in my hear that you can't get out, because l 16 of the gridlocked traffic on summer peak weekends.
17 I'd also like to say that I belong to this group ;
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I 18 called SAPL, Seacoast Anti-Pollution League, and that we're a l 19 very poor organization. We've had to raise our funds through !
l 20 bake sales and people giving donations and every kind of a sale -
21 you can imagine, antique sales; and that we have legally, over ;
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22 the years, made attempts to see that the evacuation planning 23 was done before the plant was sited. And in the early - -I l
24 think it was the 1970s or '80s, we went to the Circuit Court of 25 Appeals in D.C., and we begged them to please consider the fact i l
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s 8103-17 1 not to site the plant, ~ don't begin construction, until we.can 2 prove that we can evacuate.
3 And the judge there said, I understand your feeling, 4 but the way it's -- the things are, that you're premature; that.
5 you can come after the plant has been constructed, because 6 that's the way the rule is, and then have to figure out the 7 evacuation plans. And you will have your day, you will have 8 your day.
9 And now, $5 billion later, we're supposedly having 10 our day. But the first thing we hear is that the reason that 11 this plant, aft'er the five billion is spent, the. reason it's-12 costing more is because we are asking to have this evacuation '
13 plan safe; that we -- that Governor Dukakis has entered into.
14 this thing, when the real reason that this is happening is 15 because the rules are backwards. It should have been proved 16 first and sited next.
17 So as this thing evolved, we, of course, have ben 18 concerned. We went to the Court of appeals, and so $5 billion l
19 later, the investment is made, and I. guess a lot of us,' Judge, 20 have this feeling that because this terrible. expense, $5 21 billion -- none of us can really figure out what- $5 billion is.
22 It's a lot of money.
23 And we have this hope that maybe that we will end up 24 winning this situation, that you will see that we can't be-25 evacuated and --
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8103-18 1 JUDGE SMITH: Would you begin to summarize, please?
2 MS. FALLON: Yes, i
3 -- and understand our problems. And - .I'm sorry,. I 4 didn't realize there was a time constraint.
5 JUDGE SMITH: It goes fast. Yes, there is.
6 MS. FALLON: It's five minutes or -- -
7 JUDGE SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
8 MS. FALLON: Okay. So I guess in summarizing, I 9 would like to say that I live there, and I spend summer 10 weekends gridlocked, I can't get out. But I' choose to stay.
11 there. But I didn't choose to have'this plant in my backyard 12 that blocks me from safety, and I don't choose to have-to sit 13 there in a car and watch the situation, watch a gridlock and 14 have to look at the plant.
15 And I guess that I'll go to the top of my deck and 16 watch the chaos and take my rosary beads and get my. family 17 around me, because there's absolutely no way out. It's into 18 the ocean or toward the plant.
19 -
Thank you, Judge.
20 JUDGE SMITH: The next speaker is Dennis Kelley, and "
21 Dennis Kelley will be followed by Ruth. Murphy. And would Ruth 22 Murphy please take the -- that's the Sergeant-at-Arms jump seat 23 that you'll be sitting-in, ready to' speak.
24 MR. KELLEY: Thank you, Judges, for having us come.
25 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Murphy. i l
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8103-19 1 MR. TURK: Your Honor -- ,
2 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Kelley, would you give your name, 3 please?
4 STATEMENT OF DENNIS.KELLEY 5 MR. KELLEY: Sure. My name is Dennis Kelley, and I
. 6 live on Route 1, Lafayette Road, in Salisbury, Mass.
7 JUDGE SMITH: Excuse me.
8 MR. TURK: Excuse me one minute. Would it be more-9' convenient for the Board if I vacate this first row so that the 10 speakers face you?
11 JUDGE SMITH: I think we're all right. Thank you 12 very much. '
13 MR. TURK: Fine.
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14 MR. KELLEY: Okay. Well,-thank1you for giving this 15 invitation for coming here. I did- have something tcr say, and -
16 unfortunately I only got the invitation, oh, 48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br /> ago, and 17 I presume many of the people that got the invitation only got 18 it 48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br /> ago, and I don't, of the hundred that were sent, I i
19 don't see that many people here. j JUDGE SMITH:
20 You have five minutes. Do=you want to 21 talk about the mail or the issues? . l 1
22 MR. KELLEY: . Well, I thought it should~be addressed, -j 23 okay?
24 JUDGE SMITH: The-invitations were sent-out on 25 December 9, postmarked the 10th.-
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8103-20 1 MR. KELLEY: Okay, thank you. Well, our mail sy, stem 2 in Salisbury is a little slow.
3 But first of all, I want to just give you an' idea 4 what Salisbury is like. It's a rather poor town, it has a 5 small budget, mostly volunteer fire department, police 6 department. A rather conservative outlook in general about -
7 most ' issues . Even Salisbury voted to take the. siren poles
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8 down, because they feel that the town cannot be safely 9 evacuated.
i 10 The only person to object, one of the few, was a 11 resident of Salisbury and also an employee of Public Service.
12 The beach itself, the population is upwards of 70,000 13 in the summer. You can't find a hotel anyplace. The camping 14 grounds are full. We don't even use our cars on the weekends.
15 It's a bicycle mentality up there. You know, anyone that lives 16 in town and they want to go someplace, you use your bicycle.
17 So if there was ever a disaster, I don't know how all 18 the cars would leave the area.
19 My wife asked me to please say that if there was a j l
20 radiological release, despite any messages, she would go to the ' R 21 school system, take the kids, and get out of the area as fast-22 as she could.
23 There will be a lot of panic up there.
24 (Continued on the next page.).
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1 The townspeople themselves get used to living near Seabroo,k, 2 but most of the people, in the summertime, are.from out of the 3 area, and I believe their initial reaction would be to just get 4 in their cars and get out, which would be massive gridlock.
5 I wanted to extend an invitation to the Judges to I
. 6 please come up to Salisbury next Summer. And I have a spare i
7 room. You are welcome to spend the weekend. But please. bring ;
8 your bicycles, because when you head down to the beach, it is 9 gridlock, and everything is bicycle up'there.
10 Have you ever been to Salisbury in the summertime? ,
11 You are aware we have traffic problems up.there, then.
12 A couple other issues I just wanted to touch.upon was 13 why did Seabrook decide to shrink their evacuation zone to two 14 miles, when they found out that-they were having tr'ouble with 15 the evacuation plans?
16 How do they monitor the radiation that is. released?
17 I took a tour of the plant, and the only sensors that they had 18 were at the bottom on the ground around the big dome, but when 19 that is released, it just flies. I don't think they even know 20 which direction it is going to fly in, because the wind changes 21 all the time up there. .
22 And last but not least, I think that a study should q 23 be looked.into for Dr. Cobb. He is a. Harvard' doctor and he did )
i 24 a study that found that when they have the normal releases that 25 are allowed by.the Government of the radiati=on along the coast, !
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8103-22 1 it-doesn't blow right away. It gets mixed in with the fog and 2 has a cyclical effect and it travels up the coast, and you can 3 find higher rates of leukemia and cancer and miscarriages along 4 the coast. That is something that we really should look 5 into,because it could be a major health hazard.
6 Thank you very much. .
7 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Kelley. After Ms.
8 Murphy, we are going to heve Dr. Hayes, Dr. Thomas Hayes, who 9 has received a special invitation from the Board to present his 10 concerns.
11 Following Dr. Hayes, we are going to depart from the 12 invitee list, because it looks like we will have time for it, 13 and take the first uninvited person. That will be Ann Arnold, 14 who asked to be taken early because of a handicap.
15 Please proceed.
16 STATEMENT OF RUTH MURPHY 17 MS. MURPHY: Good afternoon. My'name is. Ruth Murphy.
18 I live on Great Bay Drive in Greenland, New Hampshire. I have 19 been a resident of the sea coast since 1968 and I am also a 20 member of the Sea Coast Anti-Pollution League.
- 21 A little background on me is.that in 1961 I started a 22 career as a Computer Systems Analyst at MIT and I worked for 23 many years evaluating systems, putting people in space, on the 24 missile project, the first woman working on that project.
25 I have had a lot of experience in reading technical Heritage Reporting- ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-23 1 plans and analysing them and coming up with questions. ,
2 My voice is shaky because I don't speak too often in 3 public, but I would hope you would understand that both I and 4 my husband, who is also in the computer systems field, took the 5 evacuation plan very seriously and read it very carefully, and
. 6 we came up with a number of questions that were not even dealt 7 with, much less not completely answered.
8 Today when I heard the gentleman, the behavioral 9 scientist talking and using the phrase " spontaneous 10 evacuation," then I could see that a lot of the questions that 11 I have here, and I have 20 questions -- not to be facetious, 12 but 20 questions -- that are really relevant to what would 13 happen in the case of spontaneous evacuation.
14 Now, I am unclear what your procedure is, whether to 15 just turn this in, but I would like to read these questions in 16 the time I have allotted.
17 JUDGE SMITH: Please do.
18 MS. MURPHY: Thank you.
19 First. Will Police and Fire Department personnel 20 remain on duty throughout the entire evacuation and emergency 21 period, even for days and weeks? .
4 22 Two. Are the towns or civil defense responsible for 23 uninsured loss or damage to property, if inadequate protection 24 is provided during an emergency? Is the Public Service. Company 25 of New Hampshire responsible for personal and property loss Heritage Reporting ' Corporation ,
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8103-24 1 related to a nuclear evacuation?
2 Three. If an evacuation is ordered, will any private 3 citizen be permitted to remain in the danger area or will 4 evacuation be forced?
5 Four. Will residents be permitted to re-enter the 6 area during the evacuation? -
7 Five. How will traffic directions be enforced? By 8 ignoring violations, by ticketing violators, by apprehending 9 violators or by physical, armed force?
10 Six. How will stalled or damaged vehicles be removed 11 from the right-of-way? Who will be responsible for vehicle 12 loss or damage?
13 Seven. How will traffic casualties be evacuated?
14 Eight. Are there reserve traffic direction personnel 15 and equipment available to deal with unanticipated problem?
16 Nine. What contingency plans are in place to deal 17 with the possible closure of major highway routes such as I-95, 18 Route 495, Route 1, or the Hampton Expressway?
19 Ten. How will major choke points such as the 20 Piscataqua Bridges, the Merrimack Bridges, the beach entrances
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21 to Route 1 and Route 51, be controlled?
22 Eleven. How will incoming traffic from the South,-
23 North and West on I-95 and Route 495 be diverted?- Do the 24 traffic volume estimates include the effect of incoming 25 traffic?
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1 Twelve. If incoming traffic is diverted, will 2 homecoming residents be permitted to continue through 3 roadblocks?
l 4 Thirteen. Will Pease Air Force Base and the 5 Portsmouth Navy Yard evacuate?
. 6 Fourteen. If a significant number of people are 7 caught in the plume, what decontamination and treatment 8 facilities are available and where are they located?
9 Fifteen. Will gas stations remain open?
10 Sixteen. Will evacuees be registered in a network 11 data bank on arrival at reception centers? And believe me, l
l 12 although I normally look for work in this area, I don't want to 13 establish this data bank.
14 JUDGE SMITH: You are running out of " time. You have 15 enough, though, I believe. Continue. You have enough time, 16 but not much more.
17 MS. MURPHY: Thank you.
18 Seventeen. Will evacuees be fed and sheltered at the 19 reception centers?
20 Eighteen. How long will reception center resources 21 be available? When will evacuees.be expected to rely upon 22 their own resources?
23 Nineteen. What plans have been made to deal with an 24 extended period of evacuation of the sea coast. How will-civil 25 defense support evacuees in reception centers for weeks or Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-26 1 months? .
2 And finally,-
3 Twenty. If some areas of the sea coast are 4 subjected to intense radiation, how will these areas be 5 isolated and how will surrounding areas be protected from 6 spreading contamination? .
7 Thank you very much.
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8 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you. Although we cannot answer 9 those questions for you, we can tell you that many, perhaps 10 most of them, were the subject of_the six weeks of evidentiary.
11 hearings that we have had here.
12 MS. MURPHY: Thank you. Did you say to turn the 13 papers in to someone?
14 JUDGE SMITH: Yes. You can give them to the 15 Reporter, if you will, please.
16 Dr. Hayes, and then would Ann Arnold please be 17 prepared to follow Dr. Hayes promptly? She will be followed by 18 Patricia Farley.
19 Dr. Hayes.
20 STATEMENT OF THOMAS B.-HAYES, M.D. -
21 DR. HAYES: Thank you. My name is Dr. Hayes. I 22 represent the Sun Valley Associates, which is an association of 23 residents of the mostly Hampton end of the Seabrook Beach area.
24 I am a graduate of Harvard' Medical School, in 1950. )
i 25 In July of 1955, we opened ~my office for the practice of '
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I 8103-27 1 surgery. I pursued that career until 1973 when I became the 2 Director of the Bonsco(ph) Emergency Medical Department, 3 Bonsco[ph) hospital in Methuen, Massachusetts.
1 4 I remained in that position for ten years until 1983.
5 During that period, I was active in Federal, state and local
. 6 emergency medical services committees, programs and workshops.
7 I have been in general practice since 1983 and' reside across 8 the harbor from Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant.
9 I intend to confine my remarks to medical management 10 of radiation injuries due to a severe nuclear reactor accident.
11 Management has denied that health risks exist, and 12 activists claim that Chernobyl-type accidents can occur. I 13 guess the truth is somewhere in between.
14 The United States Congress must feel that it is 15 possible, because they passed a bill limiting the liability for 16 damage from nuclear accidents.
17 There is a regulation.that each operating nuclear 18 reactor must have a written agreement with a nearby hospital to 19 accept radiation injuries.
20 During the Summer of 1987, I surveyed the following 21 hospitals, located near the plant. In. Massachusetts, it was 22 Lawrence General Hospital, the Bonsco[ph) in Metheun, the Hale 23 Hospital in Haverhill, the Energetics (ph) Hospital in Newbury 24 Port, and the Amesbury[ph] Hospital.
25 The New Hampshire Hospitals surveyed were the Exeter Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-28 1 Hospital in Portsmouth. ,
2 The results of-this study were presented atithe Sun l.
3 Valley Associates at its annual dinner meeting on October 15, 4 1937.
5 The only hospitals with decontamination: facilities 6 were Lawrence General Hospital, and the Exeter Hospital in. 1 7 Portsmouth.- Only Exeter had a written agreement with the 8 nuclear plant. They admit of-being capable of' caring for one 9 or two seriously injured radiation patients.
10 Lawrence General: Hospital reports it'is capable of 11 caring for a very small number of radiation victims.
12 Portsmouth Hospital has no agreements with_Seabrook.
13 At this same meeting', the Seabrook' Nuclear' Plant was i 14 represented by George Thomas,.Vice President.of Production and l
15 Energy Preparedness. He discussed' evacuation plans,' including .
16 medical evacuation, in case of an accident.
17 In substance, we.were told the'Seabrook Nuclear' Plant 18 had agreements with Dover Hospital and the'Elliott[ph] Hospital 19 in Manchester as well as with St. Joseph's Hospital in~Lowell.
20 The representatives of the' nuclear plant. insisted .
21 there would be very few injuries, if any,-from.'the Seabrook 22 plant. Most likely a plant employee might be injured, and he 23 could be treated at a nearby hospital.
24 Members of this Atomic. Safety Energy and Licensing 25 Board, I wish to state that I feel that'the'results of my -
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8103-29 1 survey and the meeting with the plant's representatives, the 2 medical evacuation plans available for people in the immediate l
L 3 area of Seabrook plant are woefully inadequate.
4 Chris Hohenzeimer, Professor of Physics at~ Clarke i
5 University, states that at the Chernobyl disaster, the
. 6 favorable weather, the siting and the rapid evacuation of under, 7 30,000 people, also the dispersion of release to a high-l l '
8 altitude, all contributed to holding prompt, immediate 9 casualties to a small number.
10 I must say that at Seabrook, we cannot expect such' 11 favorable weather, siting, nor rapid evacuation. With this in 12 mind, I believe that we can expect some serious problems at 13 Seabrook were a severe accident to occur.
14 As recently as August, 1987,.the Journal of the 15 American Medical Association had a report on a hypothetical 16 nuclear power plant disaster exercise which showed that 17 emergency room physicians were poorly informed about-the 18 initial evaluation and treatment of patients who may have 19 suffered radiation exposure.
20 I have reason to believe that emergency room 21 physicians are the same throughout the. country. And in a'JMA 22 editorial in August of 1986,'it was stated that past-medical.
23 preparedness was not very impressive.
24 Gentlemen, I and the overwhelmi$g majority of 25 residents living in the shadow of Seabrook nuclear plant'are a
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J 8103-30 1 quite convinced that medical preparedness plans for a:seri.ous 2 nuclear accident at the' plant are totally inadequate.
3 .The previously mentioned unfavorable weather 4 conditions with the onshore and offshore winds that seem to be 5 related to the incoming and outgoing tides, the extremely. poor 6 siting, and.the impossibility of rapid evacuation, will cause a ,
7 higher exposure to radiation.and lead to a higher morbidity and 8 mortality.
9 With this in mind, and the lack of adequate hospital-10 facilities in a 30-mile zone, I feel that this aspect of 11 evacuation has to be considered and I respectfully request 12 that no license be issued until a more satisfactoryLmedical 13 program has been guaranteed.
14 I wish to thank you forlgiving me.the opportunity to 15 speak here this afternoon and Iftruly appreciate your 16 consideration-17 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you,-Dr. Hayes. If you don't-18 mind giving us your statement? Thank you.
19 Ms. Arnold? -
20 STATEMENT OF ANN ARNOLD -
21 MS. ARNOLD: Thank you-for taking me out of turn.
22 My name is Ann Arnold. I am from-Plymouth, 23 Massachusetts. I am the Chairperson for the Statewide Advisory-24 Group on Nuclear Evacuation. Planning'for People with 25 Disabilities. I am Special Needs Coordinator:for,We,'The Heritage Reporting- ' Corporation (202)'628-4888
8103 -
1 People. ,
2 .I would like to take this opportunity to express my 3 concerns about the failure to include people with disabilities 4 in the emergency response plans for an accident at the Seabrook 5 Nuclear Power Station.
. 6 The 1986 Federal Disability Census shows:us that 15 7 percent of the population is disabled. 7.5 percent have severe-8 disabilities. With 91,000 people approximately in the EPZ, 9 this is a sizable portion of our population that has not been 10 planned for in any-real way in the Seabrook plans.
11 By not making specific provisions foripeople with 12 disabilities, it would actually exclu'de protecting the health 13 and safety of an entire segment of our population.
14 The bottom here is'that people will ungyestionably..
15 need special assistance during an emergency situation if they 16 have disabilities. However, I see'a real lack of' good faith on 17 the part of the planners.
18 To develop a plan in good faith you'must include-19 views from the experts. -People with disabilities are the 20 experts in dealing with their special challenges, and must 21 participate in a step by step manner in any planning process.
22 I see instead a paper plan that is unworkable for ,
- l 23 disabled people and statements of' potassium iodide being given. !
. j 24 to those disabled who will be left behind. .)
25 This is totally unacceptable and inhumane. It.is-Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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s 8103-32 1 clear that the planners have no commitment to planning for 2 people with disabilities, and, in fact, would make them 3 expendable.
4 The survival of the fittest cannot be allowed in our 5 country. At this point in time it seems almost ludicrous to 6 discuss licensing a new plant while the NRC has not addressed .
7 the problems of special needs with other operating plants in 8 our country.
l 9 If nothing more is done here today than to begin to 10 address the problems of people with special needs, then we have 11 done something very positive. Expendability of certain 12 segments of our society should never be allowed. But you have 13 allowed this to happen at nuclear plants throughout the 14 country.
15 We all have to live every day with'the knowledge that 16 disabled and elderly people, whom we know and love, will not be 17 protected in a case of a nuclear accident. Please do'not make 18 the same mistake here for citizens around Seabrook.
19 In America, every citizen has the right to equal 20 protection. Therefore, I urge you to reject this plan so that -
21 you may uphold yout duty to protect the health and safety of 22 all our citizens.
23 Thank you very much.
24 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
25 (Applause)
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8103-33 1 JUDGE SMITH: Patricia Farley, please. ,
2 STATEMENT OF PATRICIA FARLEY 3 MS. FARLEY: My name is Patricia Farley. I am from 4 Exeter, New Hampshire.-
5 I have some questions-that'I would'likeJanswered. Is
. 6 this going on the record, these testimonies?'
7 JUDGE SMITH: Yes.
8 MS. FARLEY: I would like to'know~how the 110 people 9 were' chosen and I would like to know why only 110; 10 JUDGE SMITH: I recommend, Ms. Farley, you are here.-
13 You are invited. Don't worry about those that weren't, and get 12 on with your. speech.
MS. FARLEY:
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13 Well, I am concerned about those who 14- were not invited.
15 JUDGE SMITH: If you don't want,to talk about the 16 issues, then you are wasting your opportunity. . Proceed, 17 please.
l l 18 MS. FARLEY: I just wanted to say that,1because it' is.
19 a pretty small representation of the_. people'of - -
20 JUDGE SMITH: You have no complaint. You are here.
1 21 You have the microphone ~. You have the. record..You'have 22 everything you could possibly ask for. Would;you please
.]
23- proceed?
24- VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: A'little bourtesy.
25 VOICE NUMBER TWO: Let's have_a-little courtesy. . .q
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8103-34 1 VOICE NUMBER THREE: Come on. .
2 VOICE NUMBER FOUR: Yes.
1' 3 MS. FARLEY: Yesterday, most of us can probably-4 remember what the weather was like yesterday. -I had-to drive L
5 down from Plymouth. I drove on 93 and then I' drove on 101 6 East. The weather was really terrible. The traffic wasLgoing ,
7 very slowly and I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if
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8 I had to step on the brakes really hard or something, as.
9 probably would happen during an emergency evacuation.
10 That concerns me a lot, because I don't.think that, 1
11 if there were an emergency on a night like last, night, that it 'j 12 would be real easy to'get all of the people out of the sea 13 coast area. And an emergency can happen in the. Wintertime, not 14 just in the Summertime, which is where:we have been making a 15 lot of our focus.
16 Also, people often panic and get angry when'they are
! 17 upset, and confused, and in the middle of an emergency. Some l
18 people, of course, are going to be very calm,' cool and 19 collected, but no everybody.
l l 20 I' remember when we had a gasoline shortage in this .
I l 21 country and people were lined up for miles trying to get
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i 22 gasoline for their cars.- They didn't behave very properly, a i i
23 lot of times. They were angry, they would fight-with each- l
. l L 24 other, and so on. Probably everybody here remembers that, too. I 25 Another point that I would like to make. I have an ]
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s 8103-35 1 18-year-old son. I have two other children, too. All of them 2 are registered voters. The.18-year-old is really excited, 3 because he just turned 18 and the first thing he did was go out 4 and register to vote. It is an election year, so he has been 5 paying close attention to the different candidates that are
. 6 coming along. And he is really excited about this. He is 7 looking forward to participating in the democratic process.
8 He has been taught to expect that ha is going to be 9 heard. I find it a little disconcerting that for what, 15 10 years at least, we have been trying to be heard about Seabrook 11 and many of us trying to say that we really do not want it 12 here. And I can't see that a whole lot has been heard, ,
13 although I do appreciate this opportunity to be heard today.
14 (Continued on the next page.)
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .
22 23 f 24 i
25 Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-36
. MS. FARLEY: Another question that I have is why is 2 it that the people, I believe that it is the people who are 3 employed at Seabrook Station, are the only ones who are being 4 exempted, or people who are related to the plant are the only 5 ones who are exempted from liability even in the case of 6 negligence. Why is that? .
7 And as the question has been asked here before today,
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8 I am wondering who is going to pay the bill, and can you really 9 reimburse people for the kinds of losses that they are most 10 likely going to have to suffer.
11 I would like to know something about the shelters 12 too. These shelters, I understand, are wooden shelters. I 13 have not personally seen them, but I am wondering how a wooden
- 4 shelter with windows and doors and people going in and out, how 15 is that going to cut down on the amount of radiation that 16 people are exposed to. And furthermore, how are people going 17 to know where the shelters are. I live in that city, and I do 18 not know where these shelters are. No one has told me.
19 I got the letter inviting me here today, which as I 20 said, I do appreciate being invited. However, I did not know -
21 until I heard on the radio yesterday morning that there were 22 only 110 people invited to this.
23 Another point that I want to make is that I do not think that out of 110 people that 30 coming from outside of the 10 mile evacuation zone or whatever, that 30 is not a Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-37 1 sprinkling I do not believe. That sounds like a considerable 2 portion of 110 invited people.
3 My last point that I would like to make is that I 4 think that in the interests of everybody including the people 5 who have invested their time and money into the building of
. 6 Seabrook Station that I would really like to see it converted 7 to some other form such as natural gas. Thank you very much.
~
8 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
10 JUDGE SMITH: The next speaker is Barbara James, who 11 will be followed by James R. Rosencrantz who was not invited 12 but who is welcome.
13 STATEMENT OF BARBARA JAMES 14 MS. JAMES: I do appreciate the' opportunity to talk, 15 but I share with the lady's previous concerns. My name is 16 Barbara James, and I have been a resident of Exeter for 15 17 years. My family and I have been very much involved i;ith 18 Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant iccuat since we moved here in 19 1972.
20 We attended our first meeting on the site selection 21 in the Armory in Portsmith when the NRC was the AEC. I have 22 attended every town meeting on radiological emergency response I
23 planning in Exeter, New Hampshire, the Exeter blue ribbon panel hearings, and all meetings related to this event.
My colleagues and I have invited many speakers for Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-38 1 the plan and against it over the years. We organized a full 2 day symposium on evacuation planning last spring with 3 knowledgeable people on both sides of the issues.
4 Representatives from public, and private, and parochial schools 5 within a twenty mile radius attended.
6 I have read and cited the Exeter RERP as well as most .
7 of the state plan as it relates to our area. I have written 8 numerous letters to the nuclear agencies, Congress. and the 9 newspapers about our concerns over the inadequacies of 10 evacuation planning.
11 I have participated in the League of Towns, Citizens 12 for Town Meeting Integrity, Citizens Within a Ten Mile Radius, 13 Exeter Concerned Citizens, and I have been a supporting member 14 of many environmental organizations including SAPL and the 15 Clamshell Alliance.
16 I along with many others have looked for answers 17 which would assure us that we and our families can afford to 18 live with nuclear power, and that its benefits are worth the 19 risks. I wish that I still had the confidence in technology 20 that I once had. With good reason, most Americans do not -
21 believe that we can fully trust the experts anymore. My files 22 are full of nuclear accident shutdowns, industrial defense, 23 space disasters, cover-ups, and environmental hazards.
Admittedly,thechancesofamahornucleardisaster are slim as it was at Chernobyl. I believe that the Public Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888 ;
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i 8103-39 I 1 Service Company and the engineers at Seabrook have taken many 2 precautions and improved systems to make Seabrook safe, and )
l 3 individually will do their best to prevent an accident. j 4 However, human error and system failures are still possible, l
5 and we must be prepared for the worse case scenario even if it
. 6 is remote.
1 7 Some weeks ago at these hearings, we listened 1 8 respectfully and in total agreement with teachers in the public ;
I 9 schools when they expressed their deep concerns and objections i 10 to the plan for schools. We understand their problems, and I 11 would like to give the perspective from a large residential 1
12 school where I supervise the student center and my husband I
13 teaches art.
14 At Phillips Exeter Academy located in Exeter, New l 15 Hampshire six miles from the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant, l 16 there are 1000 students, 150 faculty and their families, most l
l 17 who live on campus along with 300 staff members, most of which 18 live off-campus. {
19 My husband and I and two of our three sons live in a 20 dormitory, Wentworth Hall, along with 60 students. These i l
21 students are from 20' states, four from. foreign countries, and i 22 are between 13 and 18 years of age. They live at the school. '
23 In the summer, the boys living in Wentworth attend sports clinics or an academic summer school. In any case at any time of the year, 60 to 70 summer students live with us in a very Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888 l
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1 extended family. ,
2 We talk at Exeter about the responsibilities of the 3 phrase in loco parentis which we take seriously. And because '
4 we are convinced that the evacuation plans cannot work, I I
5 cannot tell other parents that we can or will take their place 6 in the event of an accident at Seabrook. ,
7 Most of the faculty signed a petition that they will 8 not be available to evacuate students if it placed their own l
9 families in danger. We, too, share this conflict. The 10 majority of people with whom I have spoken have said that they 11 will not leave their families. Even some security personnel, 12 those the plan say will be involved in the orderly evacuation 13 of the area, have said in private that they will go home and l
l 14 gather their families first.
1 1
15 Phillips Exeter Academy has no buses. We do not need 16 them, because most students live on campus and walk to classes.
17 There are 105 buildings on campus, and 34 are dormitories. Our 18 day students car pool, as does most of our staff.- For such a 19 large community, we have very little transportation to call on 20 in an emergency, especially at night when day student staff and .
I 21 a few commuting faculty are away from campus.
l 22 In our present radiological and emergency response 23 plan, we are dependent on buses as far as 40 miles to come to-Exeter to take our students to a safe place. And since schools closer to Seabrook Station would be evacuated first, the l'
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8103-41 1 students at Phillips Exeter Academy and the 2000 public school 2 children in Exeter might be the very last to be picked up. If l 3 an emergency occurs in the evening or in the summer, public 4 schools no longer have a responsibility to their students.
5 JUDGE SMITH: Your time is coming to an end.
- 6 MS. JAMES: All right. Teachers can in good 7 conscience protect their own (amily. My husband and I cannot.
8 We have 60 boys 46 weeks per year 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> per day.
9 The Academy as well endowed as it is cannot possibly 10 afford to purchase and maintain 24 buses. According to the Bus 11 Company of Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, each 84 passenger bus 12 costs $63,500, and each 65 passenger bus costs $34,500.
13 Further, it costs $35 per day per bus just to have them sit on 14 a lot. We would need 24 buses on hand at all times.
15 We have no real internal communications systems of 16 our own compared to a high school with a public address system.
17 Students are spread all over the campus day and night. We will 18 get 30 hand-held radios on loan for the dormitories, but we 19 still will not be able to communicate with every building.
20 According to recent testimony, decontamination 21 facilities may not be adequate for 1000 students. We have a 22 real problem about who will and who will not be given potassium 23 iodide. There is on civil defense information packets available for us to send to parents.
The bottom line is that we have a real liability Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-42 1 problem as well as a moral dilemma which encompasses all areas, 2 and we are not getting the answers that we need. I am not 3 alone in my concern for the unique situation that this 4 presents.
5 JUDGE SMITH: Please summarize and come to an end.
6 MS. JAMES: All right. Our faculty voted to oppose .
7 the licensing of Seabrook Station, because they have no l 8 confidence in the emergency evacuation plan. Only three l
9 teachers supported the licensing, and 120 were against. We 10 have worked with the civil defense plans, but no progress'has 11 occurred.
12 Phillips Exeter Academy's formal position has been 13 filed with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I appreciate the 14 opportunity to speak to you today and tell you that the 15 teachers, the administration, and the trustees still have 16 absolutely no confidence in the current evacuation plan.
1 17 I am sure that you have heard this before, but I 18 would like to say it again. If we cannot remove the people 19 frem the danger, then it is ours and your responsibility to 20 remove the danger from the people. Thank you. -
l 21 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 MR. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
JUDGE SMITH: Just a moment.
You are Mr. Rosencrantz?
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8103-43 1 MR. ROSENCRANTZ: Yes.
2 JUDGE SMITH: Just a moment. Following Mr.
3 Rosencrantz will be Lynn Hodges followed by Hobart Livingston.
! 4 Would you please be prepared. Mr. Rosencrantz.
5 STATEMENT OF JAMES ROSENCRANTZ 6 MR. ROSENCRANTZ: I am James Rosencrantz, Route 107, 7 Kensington, New Hampshire. I have lived in the Town of l
8 Kensington for the last 65 years. And I have seen the traffic 9 and the population in this area increase to a devastating 10 number.
11 If you on the panel here would come down to Seabrook 12 around 3:30 to 5:30 in the evening or the afternoon and try to 13 go through Seabrook, it takes you about a half an hour just to 14 go from one end of Seabrook into the other end of Seabrook next 15 to Hampton Falls. That is without an accident or a nuclear 16 accident. If we ever had an accident in that plant down there, 17 it would be devastating. The people in the hospitals, the kids l
18 in the schools, the merchants.
i 19 I just cannot explain what I want to say, because I 20 did not expect to speak here. I was put on the panel when I I 21 came in unexpectedly, so I did not have a written statement. ;
22 JUDGE SMITH: You are certainly welcome if you have l
I 23 second thoughts when you get done to send in a written 3 statement, if you would prefer.
MR. ROSENCRANTZ: But Seabrook is not needed. It has i
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N 8103-44 1 been a' joke since it started. And it is going to cost the:
2 taxpayers unreal money. Not exactly the taxpayers, but the .
3 ratepayers. And there has been plenty of good speakers here 4 before me who have brought out some real good facts. And I 5 feel that speaking here is not going to-do us any good. I-6 would like to thank the Chairman again for asking me.to speak, -
7 but his' attitude with a couple of the other speakers really 8 turned me off, and I just-cannot go on.
9 (Applause.)
10 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Rosencrantz.
11 STATEMENT OF LYNN HODGES 12 MS. HODGES: My name is Lynn Hodges, and I have been 13 a resident of Hampton Falls, New Hampshire for eight years, and 14 I am not a native. However, for the last eight years, I have 15 been heavily involved with evacuation especially for the 16 schools in Hampton Falls. 'And I am not here'today to tell you 17 that I have any great plans for this. LWhat I want.to talk:to 18 you about is just logic. And please. excuse me, I did not know 19 that I was going to speak.
20 We have evacuation plans with buses.and no drivers. '
21 We have towns where the police, the teachers,,and none of the 22 town officials will participate. We are told.that strangers 23 from other parts of the state are going to willingly come into a contaminated area and orderly evacuate us. I am sorry, I do not believe that. I do not think that anyone believes that..
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i 8103-45 1 (Applause.) , )
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2 MS. HODGES: I do not think that the NRC believes 3 that, and I know that Public Service-does not, and I;do not 4 believe that these gentlemen do.
5 When is someone going to deal with this' problem with
- 6 logic. We are talking about in excess of 100,000 half-naked 7 people in the summertime in a panic trying.to leave on' woefully 8 inadequate two-lane highways with no one to direct them. I.did' 9 notice that part of the Hampton plan calls for some'of the highL 10 school students to act as traffic directors. But as a rule, 11 there are not enough people to direct it. We'have a one-man 12 police force in our town of 1500. people. He is really going to
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13 be covering all of the intersections in our town.
14 But you know all of this. .You all'know all-of this.-
- 15 The area cannot be evacuated. If.it cannot be evacuated, then 16 the plan should not started. It is that simple. Why wil1~no 17 one listen to us? I have seen a lot of' rudeness here, but no-18 stupidity, so I know that these men know this. I know that 19 these people know this.
20 When is someone going to care enough to listen'to us 21 and to keep our li'ves and the lives of.our families ~and. loved 22 ones safe? I would like an answer. Could.one of you gentlemen 23 please tell me? I am sorry, am I interrupting you?
JUDGE SMITH: Would you please hontinue'your-statement.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation' (202).628-4888' ~
8103-46 9
1 MS. HODGES: I am' finished.- Thank you. ,
2 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you very much.
3 (Applause.)
4 JUDGE SMITH: Following Mr. Livingston-will be 5 Herbert Fox. Mr. Fox, if you would please be. prepared to take 6 the seat. Mr. Livingston. .
7 STATEMENT OF HOBART-LIVINGSTON 8 MR. LIVINGSTON: I am Hobart Livingston, Exeter Road, 9 North Hampton, and I feel like spontaneously evacuating in fact 10 not being used to speaking in public.
11 One of the things that nobody has made note of~is'the 12 fact that Seabrook has a pressure chamber-which.will take 60 13 pounds of pressure. Now that is'real easy to reach.in'caseiof
, 14 any kind of an internal accident. As a matter of fact, aLfew-15 seconds ought to do it under the right. conditions.
16 Seabrook knows this and these guys know this. So 17 they put a valve on the top, so that they.will not get a 18 mechanical explosion. If there is a real problem, open'the4 19 valve and out the. stuff goes. The plant.is safe, do notLworry 20 about the plant. They have to-do it. If they did not, the -
21 entire shell would crack. So there has to-be an escape! route
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22 for an over-pressure.
23 In the event that there.is, there is another interesting fact.that takes place. This stuff isfgoing to make:
a lot of smoke and a lot of particulate material and'it is
-Heritage Reporting' Corporation-(202)~628-4888
s 8103-47 1 radioactive. And when it goes out, it has an effect that,every 2 military guy in the world knows about. His transistorized 3 equipment stops. His car stops, and his emergency hand-held 4 radio stops, and his telephone stops. Everything that has a 5 transistor in it stops. The televisions and the warning sirens
- 6 have transistors, gentlemen.
7 If they are affected by radiation,-the transistors 1 .
8 stop functioning. Every guy who has ever flown a military 9 airplane or has any atomic training knows this. Space people 10 come through the Van Allen Belt from space, and they go through 11 an area of radiation effect. We cannot hear them anymore and 12 they cannot hear us. I can just imagine that one-man cop down 13 there with his little radio-saying help, help, help, and who is 14 going to hear him.
I 15 I think that concludes my.words for today.
l 16 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, sir.
17 (Applause.)
18 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Fox. Mr. John Lodger will follow 19 Mr. Fox. .
20 STATEMENT OF HERBERT FOX 21 MR. FOX: My name is Herbert. Fox, and I live in 22 Newburyport, Massachusetts. And I own two businesses, one in j 23 Merrimac, Massachusetts where I have a printing company. My- ,
second business is a bed and breakfast in Newburyport,-
Massachusetts which my wife and I operate. My. statement will 1
1.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation-(202) 628-4888
8103-48 1 be brief. ,
2 The guests who have stayed at our inn have come from 3 all over the world. The majority of the people that have 4 stayed feel that Seabrook isinot the place to have a_ nuclear.
5 power plant in a seacoast: residential area.
6 As a matter of fact, onithe way up here, I happened .
7 to get a Boston Globe today. And in the Globe, it'had two 8 articles, one.on a nuclear power plant that had gotten fined 9 $75,000 for finding operators,.there were people in the plant 10 unaccounted for.
11 The second point is also in Vermont that there.was 12 apparently a low level leak that was reported in the Boston 13 Globe.
14 I thank you'for this opportunity to speak. Actually,.
15 I was supposed to speak'this evening, but.I was called upon 16 right now. Thank you.
17 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you very.much.
18 We had. called Mr. Lodger. That was a' mistake.- There.
. 19 is no Mr. Lodger. The next speaker will be Representative 20 Robert Cushing. -
1 21 MR. TURK: He stepped out.
1 22 (Pause.)
23 JUDGE SMITH: Representative Cushing.
MR. TURK:- He stepped out apparently.
JUDGE SMITH: Oh, I am.sorry. 'Thank you. All.right.
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8103-49 1 It appears for the moment that there is no one who has 2 requested an opportunity to speak who has not previously 3 appeared before the Board. All of the other people who have 4 requested an opportunity to speak have previously made a 5 statement. Nevertheless, we will begin in the order in which 6 they signed up hearing from those persons until we have 7 somebody who has not yet had an opportunity.
8 Mr. Turk, I wonder if I could trouble you since you 9 are the closest to the aisle if you would check with Mr. Fitti 10 and see if more have come in who have requested an opportunity.
11 So we will begin then with Susan Gates. Ms. Gates, 12 as I understand it, you did appear before the Board on 13 September 30, 1986.
14 Is that a mistake?
15 MS. GATE: That is a mistake.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Okay. Go on.
17 STATEMENT OF SUSAN GATES 18 MS. GATES: My name is Susan Gates, and I live in New 19 Hampshire. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you. I J
20 was here most of the afternoon, and I was really glad to hear ,
21 of the consideration that was given to. equal sexual 22 representation by the survey that was done by the panel which 23 was interviewed today.
But I am a little bit disappointed at the inequality of sexual representation on the Board here, equal sexual i 1
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888 ;
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1 8103-50 1
1 representation of the decision effectors and the decision, )
2 makers. Since women are the bearers and traditionally i 3 protectors of life, I think that there should be better 4 representation.
5 JUDGE SMITH: Ms. Gates, are you aware that 6 Judge Helen Hoyt withdrew from the hearing because of ill ,
7 health?
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8 MS. GATES: No. i 9 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you. Go ahead.
10 MS. GATES: Speaking of ill health, we all know of 11 the bad health effects that a " normal" operating nuclear power 12 plant has. I would just like to address that issue for a-13 moment, the concerns of leukemia and birth defects in humans 14 and in animals, j 15 I would also like to mention the fact that since 1976 16 that it is my understanding that there_have been no new orders l
17 for nuclear power plants, and I kind of wonder about that and 18 why that is.
I 19 At any rate, in lieu of the fact.of the poor health j
(
20 record in the immediate vicinity of many of the nuclear power .
j l
21 plants which have been functioning over the years, I would like !
l 22 to ask you three judges, that other than perpetuating your own l 23 jobs, how in your good conscience can you really approve a !
I plant which will cause disease and death to hundreds of people !
and offer potential disease and death to thousands if not more Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-51 s
1 people?
2 I ask you to search your consciences as to what you 3 would do and what you would decide if you were living in the 4 immediate vicinity of this Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant which 5 is proposed.
6 And I would like to suggest that if you do approve 7 this plant, do you not agree that all of the people who are 8 responsible for the decision to approve the licensing of the 9 Seabrook plant should be required to participate in emergency 10 evacuation procedures in the event of a radiological mishap.
11 You guys should come and drive the buses and help some of the 12 people.
13 The other evening I attended a talk on irradiation of 14 food, and I learned that even background radiation levels today 15 are health hazards to us all. I think that it is insanity to 16 condone and approve the operation of a power plant which 17 contributes to the poisoning of our environment and our bodies.
18 I would like to mention one interesting and very true-19 fact. That the people who are living today carry within them 20 the eggs and the sperm with which to create all future life.
21 You by approving this licensing of the. operation are 22 disastrously altering all future life.
23 I will say that again in case you missed that just now. That by approving this plant, you are affecting disastrously all future life.
Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-52 1 Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak.
2 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Gates.
3 (Applause.)
4 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Fred Anderson.
5 Has Representative Cushing returned?
6 (No response.) .
7 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Anderson. After Mr. Anderson, we
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B will hear from Frank Kramer, who has previously spoken.
9 MR. ANDERSON: I am sorry, I was up there, but I was 10 told that I was going to speak this evening.
11 JUDGE SMITH: Would you prefer this evening?
12 MR. ANDERSON: This is fine.
'13 JUDGE SMITH: All right.
14 STATEMENT OF FREDERICK ANDERSON 15 MR. ANDERSON: Before I begin with prepared remarks, 16 I would like to just refer back to the statement that you made 17 to Ruth Murphy. She had the twenty questions. And you had 18 suggested that most of those questions were addressed in the 19 course of this hearing. I have tried to follow the hearing 20 through the media, and I have been doing it every day. And.my -
21 feeling is that most of those questions were not addressed.
1 22 It is a personal feeling again, but I know that you l 23 are only allowed to deal with the contentions that have been l .
I accepted by this Board. Everything else cannot be considered.
1 And I think that many of the things that she addressed which l Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
h 8103-53 1 are real concerns are not within the scope of the contentions 2 that you are debating.
3 JUDGE SMITH: That is true. Some of the questions 4
4 that she has propounded were not.
5 MR. ANDERSON: I think that the people who are here
. 6 should know that.
7 JUDGE SMITH: Yes. Many or most of them were 8 addressed by the evidence. I am not saying that those 9 questions were answered, but they were addressed by the 10 evidence.
11 MR. ANDERSON: I would just ask that the attorneys 12 present for the Interveners consider that list carefully. And 13 if there is any way.to work in some of those areas, that you do
( 14 that. You know, she made some very, very good points, and she 15 studied the area very carefully.
16 I would like to go on with my prepared statement. I 17 am one I believe of hundreds of citizens from within the 18 Seabrook EPZ who requested a limited appearance before the 19 Board but were not lucky enough to be selected in your lottery 20 held to choose those who would be asked to testify.
21 I am sure that hundreds of others would want to 22 testify if they knew that they might have the opportunity to do 23 so this afternoon or tonight, but most of them are not aware of that fact.
Like the other residents of the EPZ who have 1 Heritage Reporting' Corporation l' (202) 628-4888
8103-54 1 testified today, I would consider myself as, qualified as any of.
2 the experts hired by Public Service or even the Interveners to 3 comment on the adequacy of the Seabrook off-site plans.
4 I will first stateia reason why I am qualified to 5 judge the plans and then refer to a specific problem that I 6 believe should rule out an operating license for Seabrooky .
7 Station.
8 Qualification number one. I' lived in South Hampton 9 just west of Seabrook for eleven years. .I was formerly 10 assistant civil defense director for the. town. Conclusion
' 11' number one. The town is totally. unprepared to handle'a 12 radiological emergency caused by Seabrook Station. It has no 13 full-time police or fire personnel. It has no EOC or emergency 14 operation center.
15 Because of the impossibility of adequately protecting 16 its own area and surrounding areas including the' beaches, South 17 Hampton has voted not to participate in Seabrook related 18 training. Any state personnel sent-into-South Hampton to 19 compensate for this lack of participation will'be completely 20 unfamiliar with the town, its people, its special needs, its '
21 road systems, et cetera. .
22 Qualification two. I have two sons in South-23 Hampton's only school, the Barnard School. Conclusion number two. The school will not provide adequate shelter if this is called for. It'is a wooden frame structure with a very, very-i Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
1 l
l 8103-55 j 1 small basement. Three of eight grades are now housed in a 2 portable classroom or trailer sitting next to the school.
3 The state has not even conducted.a survey to 4 determine the adequacy of sheltering.at schools and other 5 public institutions. Further, if an evacuation is called for
. 6 instead of sheltering by the state, I question whether-7 transportation could reach the school given congested roads, 8 and note that most teachers have said that they will-not assist 9 in the evacuation.
10 I personally know these teachers and believe them. I 11 also would not blame them for taking care of their own families 12 first. That is what I plan to do in the event'of an accident 13 at Seabrook.
e 14 Qualification number three. I own a consulting'
)
15 business in Exeter that employs students from Phillips Exeter 16 Academy. Conclusion number three. I am aware'that the 17 evacuation plan for the Academy is. totally inadequate, and that 1
18 the Academy has opposed the licensing of Seabrook Station. As 19 with the South Hampton schools, there are inadequate provisions 20 for sheltering, transportation and supervision. Communication 21 with the student population spread out.over many. acres hasLalso i 22 not been addressed. And Barbara James I think mentioned'a 23 number of the problems in detail with the-Academy.
Qualification number four. I have personally.
witnessed the failure of a siren test in East Kingston on Heritage Reporting' Corporation- j (202) 628-4888 i 1
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l 8103-56 1
1 January 31st of this year. Conclusion number four. While the 2 NRC staff has ordered changes to antennae design and has 3 suggested that sirens face south to compensate for the effects 4 of ice and snoa, I personally have no confidence in the changes 5 that have been made.
6 The sirens have not been retested in the winter which .
7 I feel that they should be. I believe that the siren system 8 will not work effectively in the winter, and that the NRC is -
9 irresponsible if it does not order a back-up system like 10 tone-activated radios in this area. I also believe that most 11 residents and visitors to the EPZ have not received any 12 information on what to do if the siren should sound, thus 13 making the siren system worthless year round.
14 Qualification number five. I personally sitnessed 15 the only drill to the off-site plant of Seabrook in February 16 1986, and can attest to the many flaws found by FEMA which I 17 understand have not yet been corrected.
18 Conclusion number five. I believe that even a low 19 power license should not be granted until all flaws in the New 20 Hampshire plan are corrected, and that the New Hampshire Yankee .
21 plan for Massachusetts is tested and an integrated drill tests
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22 the ability of the utility to act as a plant management on one 23 side of the state line while acting as public safety officials on the Massachusetts side.
And finally, qualification six. We have rented Heritage Reporting ' Corporation-(202) 628-4888
8103-57 1 property in Boars Head at Hampton Beach, and we often visit the 2 beach year round. Conclusion number six. I reaffirm.the 3 testimony that you have heard from experts that the road. system 4 is totally inadequate at the beach with Church Street'just an 5 alley being one of the major evacuation routes.
. 6 The population of many cottages swells with guests 7 especially on the weekend. The population of ours went from 8 four to sixteen as an example with-relatives parking on lawns 9 not included in the state census of legal. parking spaces.
10 I have read with interest accounts of statements by 11 Mr. Dignan of how people would patiently react when traffic 12 does not move.- I for one would abandon my car and try to. walk 13 out toward the plant, and I am sure that many would'do likewise s 14 despite the lack of protection from radiation. Even if
- 15 shelters were available at the beach --
16 JUDGE SMITH: You will have to prepare to conclude.
17 MR. ANDERSON: Even if shelters were not available at 18 the beach, people would know how-to find them. Some would be 19 overcrowded and others empty. The plan contains no provisions 20 for directing beach goers to shelters or later evacuating them.
21 A summer shutdown of Seabrook would only protect people-during-22 the shutdown and would leave the same problems during:the 23 spring or fall when good weather brings out a significant number of visitors to the beach.
To build a plant like Seabrook so close to a beach is Heritage Reporting ' Corporation-(202) 628-4888
8103-58 1 a sin and a travesty. And to try to convince people that,they 2 will protect it is a hoax. If you allow Seabrook to operate 3 and there is a significant accident, you along with Seabrook 4 management will be as responsible as the managers at Chernobyl.
5 JUDGE SMITH: Please conclude.
6 MR. ANDERSON: I will. You have heard many hours of. .
7 testimony from witnesses from both Interveners and plant 8 owners. You have heard about hundreds of defects in existing 9 plans, most of which cannot be corrected without further' 10 significant delays in expenditures. In your hearts, which 11 testimony do you believe, that of the critics or those 12 " experts" who say do not worry.
13 Public Service Company and New Hampshire Yankee claim 14 that they are not called on by law to take any " unusual 15 measures". You are responsible for --
16 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Anderson, I am_ calling upon you to.
17 conclude. Would you please conclude forthwith.
18 MR. ANDERSON: You are responsible for-protecting the 19 citizens surrounding Seabrook and not Seabrook Station'. You 20 still have a chance to make the right decision regarding the -
21 Seabrook license. And I hope that the. testimony that you hear 22 today will make you realize that Seabrook Station should'never 23 be licensed. Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Kramer. Mr. Kramer will be Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
s 8103-59 1 followed by David Slesinger.
2 MR. KRAMER: Judge Smith, I have a letter here from a 3 resident of Salisbury.
4 JUDGE SMITH: Yes. You do not have to read it for 5 us. We are perfectly capable of reading it, and it will be put
. 6 in the record. Thank you. Would you make your own statement 7 place.
8 MR. KRAMER: I had planned to read that.
9 JUDGE SMITH: Would you prefer to read that instead.
10 of your own statement?
11 MR. KRAMER: I was just going to read it, and then 12 make a brief statement of my own within the five minute period.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Okay, fine. Thank you. Go ahead.
-( 14 STATEMENT OF FRANK KRAMER 15 MR. KRAMER: " Judge Smith, as I am.unhbla-to. attend 16 the hearing being held today at the New Hampshire House of' 17 Representatives in Concord, New Hampshire, I am presenting my 18 statement in this letter. I live on Beach Road,' Route 1A, in 19 Salisbury, Massachusetts, which leads to the Salisbury Beach.
20 My home is situated just off Salisbury Square and'close to the-21 intersection of U.S. Route 1 leading into Salisbury Square.from 22 Seabrook, New Hampshire. I'have.a goo'd view of both Route 1 23 and Beach Road.
"On just ordinary' days, Routeskand1Aareheavily
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traveled year-round and meet in Salisbury Square 1nter-traffic Heritage Reporting ' Corporation l (202) 628-4888
8103 1 on 110, another two-lane highway. On weekends in the spring, 2 summer and fall, the traffic is stalled by my place to'the 3 extent that it is impossible to'get out on.the road. Route 4 is heavily travelled during the ceason also, because of the 5 beaches on the whole coastal route and camping' area.
6 "In the event of a disaster here because of the ,
7 traffic congestion, heavy population,'and'. extremely'limitedl 8 escape routes combined with. human panic,--it would be. chaos.'
9 Drivers would not use reason and would do anything for a way to-10 get out.
11 "In the wintertime,'the snow and ice storms would 12 make the roads impassable. There would be few guides to1 13 control traffic jams and driving buses through here would be 14 impossible. Consider the disabled, the elderly, hospital 15 patients, and small children. Please consider our critical ..
16 helpless situation with thousands with no way of escaping..
17 " Respectfully yours, Ann L. Fowler."
18 Again my name.is Frank-Kramer, a member'of the-19 Salisbury Conservation Commission, and also of the suspended 20 Emergency Planning Committee of the town,.and a SAPL member. .
i 21 I am a grandfather of ten and a half. .
.- J 22 I would like to address the problem of sabotage and 23 terrorism which I find ~has not been addressed today. I have asked this question at both'emergencyfpla$ning meetings and:atL other hearings, .and have always been stalled. This is a great Reporting ' Corporation
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Heritage (202)_628-4888 1 1
8103-61 1 concern of mine.
2 And I would like to sum up by saying that Salisbury 3 has many problems with evacuation planning which will be.
4 presented at a later time if allowed. Thank you.
5 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Kramer.
. 6 (Applause.)
7 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Pratt will be the next speaker.
8 And after Mr. Charles'Pratt will follow Mr. Slesinger.
9 (Pause.)
10 JUDGE SMITH: Would you proceed, please, with your 11 statement.
12 And would you be prepared, Mr. Slesinger, to be down 13 here and be ready to follow.
- 14 STATEMENT OF CHARLES PRATT 15 MR. PRATT: Thank you. My name is Charles'Pratt, and 16 I am a resident of Brentwood, and formerly of Exeter. And in 17 the Town of Exeter in about- 1980-1981, I served for awhile on a 18 committee which studied the evacuation planLfor the-Town of 19 Exeter at that time. And in fact, we found much to approve'of 20 in the plan at that time, but several things concerned.us. And 21 among those first of all was the issue.of.the buses which-have j 22 been addressed over and over.
23 It seems to me and:I think to us then that the only way to make the' plans for buses make-any sense at allgwas-to' have letters of agreement from individual bus drivers. That -j Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888 m_____________._.__.______.__.____ . . _ - . m__ _ __ _ _ . _ m_. _
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8103-62
'l has been asked for over and over again. And the plans have 2 been changed so that there are letters of agreement from bus 3 companies to letters of agreement from the Teamsters Union. But 4 as far as I know, there are still no letters of agreement from 5 individual bus drivers.
6 And the plans will make no sense at'all until there -
7 are bus drivers who agreed to drive the buses, who have been 8 trained to drive the buses, and who have come into the area and.
9 who have studied the routes that they will be required to 10 travel.
11 The second major issue or one other major issue at 12 that time was the evacuation time estimates which have been 13 modified since them considerably. They.still raise a number of 14 questions. I have been through some days of the testimony here, 15 and one day in particular interested me which was the day on 16 which the discussion of what people would do in traffic.
17 I, myself, think of myself as quite a mild person.
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18 When I get into a traffic jam, I immediately. start getting 19 tense. And I tried to think about what I would do. I drive 20 most of the time a Ford pick-up truck without a radio in it.
- 21 And'if I were foolish enough.to go to Hampton Beach 22 on a crowded weekend in the summer and found myself in a i 23 traffic jam in this truck with no radio in an' evacuation,'and,I am trying to figure out what is going on, and I do not know whether to open the. window of the truck and to try to listen Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888 i
8103-63 1 for the news from the towers or to close the window in the 2 truck and guess, and I know that I can walk to Brentwood in a 3 couple of hours, I do not know for sure what I would do, but I 4 know that I would not behave rationally for very long.
5 At least I do not have any faith that I would behave
. 6 rationally. And although I gather that there is not much hard 7 evidence of how people behave in such situations, that there is 8 certainly evidence that traffic can cause that kind of tension, 9 and arguments and so forth. Thank you very much.
10 (Applause.)
11 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Slesinger.
12 STATEMENT OF DAVID SLESINGER 13 MR. SLESINGER: I am David Slesinger of 14 Everett, Massachusetts. I speak to you today as a long-term 15 opponent of this nuclear plant and as a former resident of 16 Seabrook, and as a person who is capable of understanding 17 scientific issues. I am a graduate of MIT.
18 I am not going to address the technical issues today 19 except to point out that the Atomic Energy Commission in 1963 20 selected a person to evaluate the effect of radiation on human 21 cancer causation. They picked John Goffman, the eventual 22 founder of the Biomedical Division of the Lawrence Livermore 23 Laboratory, who had proved fissionability of plutonium. He is a political conservative who supports the nuclear arms program of this country.
Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
i 8103-64 1 He concluded that radiation is significantly more 2 dangerous than the semi-official bodies were willing to admit.
3 I am sure that you are familiar with him,.and I do not know-if.
4 you dismiss him out of hand or not.
5 What I want to address is the fact, and I do mean the 6 fact, that the NRC is a sham as a regulator. .
7 (Applause.)
8 MR. SLESINGER: And that you folks in judgment of 9 this plan would do anything, any heinous crime, even as bad as 10 killing your grandchildren before you would acknowledge the 11 truth that there is no such thing as a safe evacuation plan.
12 Now I suggest by this statement that you three.are 13 vicious criminals. In fact, that is exactly what I am saying.
14 I will even claim that you three judges if you allow this plant 15 to be licensed are worse than any three criminals in.the 16 history of New England. I call for the union. leader and other 17 nuclear management followers to research who really have been 18 the three worse criminals in the history of New England. .
19 So that in the future, a century in~the future when 20 we look back, if this plant has been licensed, we can. calculate
- 21 the full damage of the nuclear fuel cycle when the 22 epidemiologist look at the tumor registries and the genetic 23 damage statistics, and when the economists evaluate the. impact of. rate shock and decommissioning, that'we will.b'e able-to compare the biological and economic suffering caused;by the Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-65 1 three worse criminals in the history of the region and compare 2 that to you three deeply evil men.
3 It is not too late to reject evil. You are human 4 beings capable of cherishing life.
5 (Continued on next page.)
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-66 !
, 1 MR. SLESINGER (Continuing): The most dangerous, 2 waste product of the nuclear fuel cycle, and Pluto, the Ruler l 3 of the Underworld, don't own you. Repent before it's too late, l
4 for New England and for your souls. 1 5 (Applause) 6 JUDGE SMITH: Did Representative Cushing ever return? .
7 Mr. Montville. Bruce Montville, who has' appeared
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8 before, as I understand it, Mr. Montville.
)
1 9 STATEMENT OF BRUCE MONTVILLE 10 MR. MONTVILLE. My name is Bruce Montville, and I'm 11 from Hampton, New Hampshire.
12 I want to welcome the Board to New Hampshire. I am 13 not only speaking for myself but I do speak for a number of 14 activist groups. I would like to take the moment to quickly 15 give you the names of those groups. These activist groups are 16 all foes of Seabrook Station.
17 They are the Americ an Friends Service Committee, 18 Campaign for Ray Peer's[ph] Rights, Citizens Against Nuclear 19 Trash, Citizens Within a Ten-Mile Radius, Clamshell Alliance, 20 Employees' Legal Project, New Hampshire Greens Party, New -
21 Hampshire League of Towns, New England. Coalition Against 22 Nuclear Pollution, New Hampshire Citizens Action, New Hampshire 23 Citizens versus Price Anderson, New Hampshire Society for 24 Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, New Hampshire State 25 Representatives, New Hampshire State Senators, New Hampshire 1
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8103-67 1 Teachers, Page(ph) Affinity Group, People of New Hampshire 2 Against the Dump, Physicians for Social Responsibility, 3 Republicans Against Seabrook Station, Seacoast Anti-Pollution 4 League, Search 88, Tri-State Coalition, Union of Concerned 5 Scientists, and We The People, and whoever else I forgot.
6 Now, we have a friendly message for you. We really.
7 feel, seriously, that you have come here.too soon. And.the 8 reason we say that is that the evacuation plans really aren't 9 ready for you folks to evaluate.
10 We know they should have been. But there's.a 11 problem. Public Service Company of New Hampshire, through 12 their President Mr. Harrison, has no allowed his own1 company or 13 his own mind to make a commitment to the NRC Standards which -
l' 14 you required to license a plant.
15 In other words, Public Service Company of New 16 Hampshire has not taken the NRC seriously.
17 Let me quote from Mr. Harrison. " Business to 18 Hampshire, December 1987. Is there a need for evacuation.
19 plans? I'd say it is marginal. The likelihood of any
. 20 catastrophic event is so low that they are not-needed. But the 21 political requirements are such that they are'necessary. The 22 fears are based more on emotion than on reason." Emotion 23 rather than reason. In other words, the NRC rule has no reason.
24 "Chernobyl brought about heightened concern about I
25 nuclear plants, not-justified, but-nevertheless there~" .
Heritage Reporting ' Corporation q (202) 628-4888 'j
8103-68 1 So what I'm saying is, Public Service Company ,
2 considers the evacuation plan level a nuisance. They are-really 3 not interested in meeting the NRC standards. That is one 4 thing.
5 The other thing is, why we say.you'are.too'early, is 6 the State of New Hampshire and the towns of New Hampshire, do .
7 not know how to make a workable evacuation. plan. We do not 8 know.
9 The proof of that is, these hearings that you.have 10 been observing have shown, based on each' subject matter that 11 has been brought up, flaw,'after flaw, after flaw, 12 disagreement, disagreement, disagreement.
13 So what we say to you folks is, you mean.well. You 14 do have standards. We' don't think they are high enough'but 15 they are better than none. .But Public Service Company and the 16 State of New Hampshire are not ready for you.
17 We have to spend a lot more money, perhaps as much as 18 already has been spent on the plant, for educating our people, 19 for planning anew, for training our people, for practicing 20 evacuation. We probably got another $5 billion that would have '
to be spent to do it right'if you mean.to have it done right 21 22 according'to your standards.
23 I think it'would be fair'to say that if yor came.-back' 24 in three or four years from now, maybe th$re would be~some 25 progress made, if the cost justification to go ahead was there, q
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8103-69 1 On the other hand, if the cost justification is, not 2 there, I would advise the NRC to say~to Public Service Company 3 of New Hampshire, you either are willing to meet the standard 4 that we require and do it and spend the money, or let's stop 5 right now.
. 6 Your presence here this past six weeks has been good
'7 for us. It has helped us understand the circumstances that you 8 had to evaluate.
9 It has made us aware of what has.not yet been'done 10 correctly. That is good, and we'thank you for that.
11 That is all I have to say-at this moment. Iuwant to 12 wish you the best of-holidays and God be with you in your-13 decision. Thank you.
( 14 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you,.Mr. Montville. -
15 (Applause) 16 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Gunter. Paul Gunter.
17 STATEMENT OF PAUL GUNTER 18 MR. GUNTER: My name is Paul Gunter. I am from 19 Warner, New Hampshire. I would estimate.that-I live 20 approximately 70 miles from Seabrook Station. And I do 21 appreciate this opportunity to address.the NRC. Judges with 22 regard to Seabrook Station.
23 I have been an opponent to Seabrook Station now for 24 11 years. Though I don't have a prepared statement, what I.
25 would like to address to you in hopes that you can take this to.
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8103-70 1 heart in making a decision relative to the ten mile evacua, tion 2 plan that you are looking at is that a ten mile evacuation zone 3 impacts more than ten miles. It impacts an area in one 4 particular way in that people will be relocated. The scenarios 5 that you have looked at as far as time and effectiveness of 6 getting people out still fall short of what you are going to do .
7 with those people, or what number of people do get out, what 8 will happen to those people, in terms of relocation, -
9 resettlement.
10 We know by looking at a prior nuclear accident in the 11 Soviet Union that 135,000 people were permanently relocated.
12 Now, in terms of whether or not America is a place where we-13 will see resettlement camps because of the disaster 14 precipitated by this power plant, or whether there can be a 15 humane and effective way of taking people's homes away by 16 radiological trespass, and finding their. niche again somewhere 17 in life, that can compensate them for that loss, or a situation 18 that can compensate for the loss to our New Hampshire economy, 19 our New England economy, from such a loss precipitated.by this i
20 accident, those are all considerations that this plan does not .
21 address. .
22 I don't think that you can really rule on such a plan 23 until we take into some scope of where these people will goLand )
I 24 what you are going to do with them in that event. .j 25 I think that, given that insight, and given the lack
-I Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202).628-4888 D
8103-71 1 of insight in this plan, I think that is more a reason to, 2 reject this plan as it stands.
3 Another point that I would like to bring up is 4 relative to what happens to the evacuation zones as it expands 5 from ten miles to 15 miles to 18 miles as the weather expands
, 6 to 25 miles? We know by example from the Chernobyl accident 7 that it is simply a question of industry and Government saying 8 that citizens must tolerate radioactive doses.
9 And that is not acceptable. And in our sight, in 10 citizen sight, that is not permissible. You find yourselves in 11 a position of authority to rule on that, and it is'not just a 12 ruling on our lives, but future generations, our descendants 13 that will have to bear these doses, the contaminated land, and 14 the inadequacy of these plans.
15 I would like to close by speaking, trying to speak to 16 you on a spiritual realm. I mean, we deal with this in terms of 17 logic, we attempt to deal with it in terms of logic. But there 18 is a concern and a responsibility beyond the law of the land.
19 And that is a concern with regard to stewardship.
20 You are stewards, as I am a steward, as we here are 21 stewards, and that is what brings us here, with our. j 22 responsibility. If I can, I would paraphrase a quote for you 23 from the " Book of Revelation of St. John, Chapter 8, Verses 10 24 and 11," about the apocalypse. And it reads something to the 25 effect of:
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1 8103-72 1 And a great star fell'upon the Earth,-and it'c.ame 2 down, burning,-as it were, a lamp. And.it fell upon a third of 3 the waters and a third of the fountains', and it made those 1
waters bitter.
4 And the name of the star'is wormwood. And.a 5 third of the men died, because the waters had been made bitter.
6 Whether it be circumstance or prophecy, the Ukrainian' ,
7 translation for the word'" wormwood" is "Chernobyl." And that, 8 I think, bears directly on your decision, on your 9 responsibility as' stewards,'and to uphold a law much higher 10 than the' ignorance that we have' demonstrated today relative to 11 this technology.
12 Thank you very much.
13 (Applause) 14 JUDGE SMITH: Joann Hubbard, please. -Joann Hubbard, 15 to be followed then by Richard-Kaufman.
16 STATEMENT OF.JOANN HUBBARD 17 MS. HUBBARD: I did.not come here prepared to speak 18 today. I was not one of the invited few. I think that there1 19 probably would have been thousands of' people here today_if they 20 had known that they might have had an opportunity to' speak. -
21
~
I thank you for the opportunity to speak-here. But I 22 feel rather outraged.that this process.of allowing the public 23 to speak is so severely limited.
24 In a closed society, I would expect such limitations.
- 25. But this is a free and open society built upon democratic Heritage Reporting ' Corporation lj (202) 628-4888
8103-73 1 principles.
T I currently reside in Concord, New Hampshire. My s name is Joann Hubbard. I was previously a resident in the 4 Seabrook area, and I relocated when I changed jobs, primarily s
5 because of the potential hazards of living in the shadow of 6 Seabrook Station.
7 As a teacher in that area in 1982, I witnessed a mid-8 day school evacuation due to a snowstorm. There obviously was 9 no life-threatening situation to those youngsters staying in i 1
10 the school, as there would'be obviously in the event of a 11 radiological emergency.
12 It still took three-and a half hours for the buses to 13 come to pick up those students, and the last students did not
- 14 leave the school until three and a half hours after the close 15 of school was announced.
16 I suspect that in the event of a life-threatening 17 emergency, that it would take considerably longer to evacuate 18 the same 300 students from a town that is not as crowded as 19 Seabrook. This happened in Amesbury, Massachusetts.
20 I think that such an evacuation would probably occur i I
21 with minimal if any adult supervision..
i 22 I have limited my remarks to that one aspect of the i 23 evacuation plans with which I have some familiarity _and also 3 l
24 because there has been testimony'about previously because I H I
25 realize that you will consider only such remarks. l Heritage Reporting ' Corporation-(202) 628-4888
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8103-74 1 I think that the bottom line is that Seabrook Station 2 is sited in the worst possible physical location, with woefully 3 inadequate plans for evacuation.
4 It is wrong to discuss the evacuation of the public 5 from an area around a nuclear plant from which there can be no 6 safe evacuation. It is wrong to discuss such evacuation .
7 possibilities after the plant has been built. And it is wrong 8 to allow the farce this hearing represents to continue.
9 (Applause) 10 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Kaufman. Mr. Loder, you will be 11 the next speaker.
12 STATEMENT OF RICHARD L. KAUFMANN 13 MR. KAUFMANN: I read the State of New Hampshire 14 Emergency Rerponse Plan. .I made a " Top Ten" list of some of 15 the problems I see, or inconsistencies in it.
16 The first one is about the first one or two hours of 17 the evacuation, which is, I think, inconsistent. It is assumed i 18 in one place that people will come home to pick up their 19 children or spouses in order to relieve the load of buses that 20 would be required otherwise to do that. .
21 But in the plan itself there,is no provision for 22 people going the wrong way, from one mode to another, from one 23 intersection to another, along the evacuation routes.
24 A second very closely related thing is that all. side .I i'
25 streets are ignored. The only things that are considered in Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-75 1 the evacuation are the responses from one intersection to 2 another along the main routes, along the main highways or 3 links.
4 All the side streets are ignored and considered light 5 traffic which would not be important. However, as soon as main
. 6 routes get congested, I am sure that people will start to take 7 the side routes that they know, and I think this will make 8 major problems at intersections where these have all been 9 neglected in the response plan.
10 A third thing is that ideal loading rates have been 11 used everywhere and for example, at the Hampton Beach, it is 12 assumed that 2,600 cars will load per hour, which the computer 13 says is the ideal rate to avoid traffic jams. In fact, it has t 14 been assumed everywhere that no traffic jams will exist.
15 To do this, they have loaded people at an ideal rate.
16 And this means that people in the Hampton parking lot will have 17 to wait about two and a half hours to load some of the people 18 in the lot at this particular rate at which they are loading.
19 I don't think it is realistic to think that people 20 are going to, first of all, realize that they have to load at 21 that particular rate or are willing to. wait that long so that 22 they avoid traffic jams. In other words, I think they will jam l 23 on the road as fast as they can get on it, as most people do in 24 emergencies, and that will cause traffic jams which has.not 25 been considered in the plan.
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8103-76 1 The fourth point is about something that I think is 2 incorrect in the plan, and that is that it says that there will 3 be an estimate of 6 percent of the cars at anyone time 4 inoperational. That means either in garages, being repaired or 5 for some other reason not being able to operate.
6 And it is assumed that that will mean there is a 6 .
7 percent increase in the number of buses or the number of people 8 that have to evacuate.
9 This I think is incorrect because you are talking 10 about 6 percent of the cars but there is only 2 or 3 percent of 11 the people are assumed to have no cars. If 6 percent of all l
12 the other cars are inoperational, that means a much larger than 13 6 percent increase in the number that have to be evacuated by 14 buses, not just 6 percent.
15 If you just take into account the families with one 16 car, I estimate over 50 percent increase in the number of buses 17 that would be required because of only 6 percent of the cars 18 being inoperational of the much larger number of people who 19 have cars than those few who don't.
20 The fifth thing is I think that snow problems have -
21 been wildly underestimated. It has been assumed that only 25 22 percent reduction in the total highway capacity will be caused 23 by snow.
24 I drove around last night and this morning both in 25 the snow and I guarantee you there was a much bigger than 25 )
I l
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8103-77 1 percent reduction in the highway capacity during a snowstorm, 1 2 and even this little minor one that we've had just recently.
3 It is also assumed that snowplow operators will 4 continue to operate or even be capable of operating in this 5 kind of situation,'all through snowstorms. I think that is 6 unrealistic that either they will be capable of operating or 7 willing to operate for say an eight hour period, which is what 8 the minimum time that's been assumed will be required.
9 Even more bizarre is that the people who plow older 10 folks' driveways with little pickup trucks with snowplows 11 attached will continue to clear driveways. There is no 12 provision for clearing driveways. It is assumed that people 13 already have that arranged.
( 14 No accidents are assumed and as a result no~ tow 15 trucks are located within five miles of Seabrook Station and 16 only two within ten. miles.
17 This is particularly unlikely I think because for 18 example in the last two days when I was driving I saw each time 19 one road landing blocked by an accident, last night and today,
- 20 even though I only drove about seven miles each time, during 21 the snow.
22 There is a problem with counting people, I think. It 23 says in the report that there will.be more cars during a Summer 24 weekday to evacuate than on a Summer weekend. That is, as an .
25 exodus, there is 101,955 cars in the ten mileLzone to be' exited i
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8103-78 l 1 on a weekday; 96,524 on a weekend. There seems to be a very 2 odd --
3- JUDGE SMITH: Your time is running out. Could you 4 summarize, please?
5 M.R KAUFMANN: So I think~there is a problem with 6 counting the number of cars. I think the double. counting has ., j 7 been over-estimated, particularly since Seabrook is,'according 8 to the figures.I have seen.from the Sandy Report,;CR-2239, _ is 9 the most heavily populated plant in the country within'a two-10 mile zone.
11 And finally, the turn percentages.I think are, well, 12 there are two things. Turn percentages I think are'poorly 13 estimated because there are a lot of entry' points where people 14 are assumed to end up at two different exits, two different 15 final destinations. I don't know how people would decide'which 16 one to go to.
17 And finally, about the emergency behavior. I think it 18 has been stated I know in these hearings all:weekLthat people 19 will respond very well in emergencies.- But you see.on TV 20 people getting trampled at rock concerts where of course people -
21 leave normally every day at rock concerts,-but in a fire _they 22 get trampled. And at a soccer stadium you'see people trampled 23 in the fire. And schools, public schools constantly have fire !
. i 24 drills. It seems that people don't operate normally during i 25 emergencies. ;!
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- 8103-79 1 Thank you. ,
2 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, sir. Mr. Loder.
3 (Applause) 4 STATEMENT OF JOHN LODER' 5 MR. LODER: Members 1of the Panel, ladies and
. 6 gentlemen. 'My name is John Loder. 'I live in Rollinsford, New 7 Hampshire. Airline miles from.the plant for me is 23.9. I.am 8 outside of the ten mile zone. And yet, what is a ten-mile 9 zone?
10 In a few days, the fallout from Chernob'yl, TMI, from 11 Hanford and all of the other accidents, has circled.the world.
12 Space is no distance.
13 I didn't come, although the topic is evacuation, I' l t 14 didn't come-to speak abou't evacuation. I have.my ideas on it.
15 I spent almost a solid year investigating this entire-thing.
L 16 I don't discuss whether we can' evacuate or not. I 17 find it impossible. I don't know whether the' plant is safe or 18 not, for sure. But that is.really'the whole problem. 'We dont I 19 know.
20 I don't say whether I believe the experts in this or 21 not, although I don't. . And that is the problem. . They may be )
22 pure, Simon-pure as the driven snow, but.we. don't know.
23 It is for'this reason, that we don't'know, thatLwe 24 must be most alerted. The public has had no right'of :!
i 25 opportunity of decision in this entire matter -- not only?from i
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8103-80 1 the beginning of this plant, but from the beginning of nuclear 2 energy.
3 Albert Einstein saw, in a moment of terrible clarity, 4 one day in a meeting I understand, when he was informed that 5 the first device had been set off in the desert. He looked 6 with sad surprise, I am told, at the messenger bearing this -
7 news and he said: "But it is not yet time."
8 What did he mean? Didn't he mean that this was borne 9 in secrecy, that the public had not had an opportunity to be j 10 raised in consciousness with the development of this device 11 leading to this industry and the plant which is under 12 discussion today?
13 The same cycle of history repeats itself. We have no l
14 been participants. We do not know. We have every right to 15 know. This is a constitutional republic functioning as a 16 representative democracy. These meetings are a travesty of our 17 very form of government. We have no business being here. The 18 representatives from Washington'have no business being here.
19 I am a woodworker. I should be at my bench now. I'm 20 not. I have spent a great amount of money just following this. ~
21 I'm not being paid. .
22 The gentlemen from Washington are being paid 23 handsomely to come to listen to us, and because we know the !
24 outcome, to ignore us.
25 Why do we hold these meetings? Why are we here? Why Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-81 1 have we submitted to the indignity of passing through metal 2 detectors which are a presupposition that we are going to have 3 a neutron bomb in our gold crown and we are going to set it 4 off?
5 Isn't it really an obscene exercise?
6 Thank you.
7 (Applause) 8 J:T 2E SMITH: We have some confusion here. Does 9 Wesley Crocheron, wish to make a statement? Does he? All 10 right. Thank you.
11 Before you begin, Mr. 01ocheron, does Norma Beit 12 intend to make a statement this afternoon? Norma Brit? Do 13 you? This evening? All right. And then-Thomas Mobghan. All 14 right. Then that soems to be everybody who has requested this 15 afternoon, except for Mr. Crocheron. Would you proceed, 16 please?
17 STATEMENT OF WESLEY CROCHERON 18 MR. CROCHERON: My name is Wes Crocheron. And I.am 19 from Chocorua, New Hampshire. It is about 70. miles from 20 Seabrook. I spend most of the week here in Concord as a Clam 1
21 Shell Line staff member. I spend a bit of time at our Hampton 22 office, which is very close to Seabrook. I have many friends 23 down on the coast that I spend some time with. So I am very i
24 concerned.about my own safety when I'm down there.
25 I have to say, from my background as pretty near 25 Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202)'628-4888
8103-82 1 years on the California _ Highway: Patrol, evacuation around.,
2 Seabrook is impossible.
3 I think you have heard almost everything, even a 4 short time today. There isn't much more to say, really., I 5 think the only thing that maybe we can appeal to is your 6 feelings. I have feelings and I'm sure that you have feelings .
7 also.
8 I think we all know that nuclear power is on its way 9 out. That is pretty _obvi'ous. If you took a poll of this state
. 10 right now I think you would find probably that there would be 11 about 70 percent of the people.that were against'Seabrook and.
12 probably about as many against nuclear power.-
13 So I think what I want to'say is that 1 am appealing 14 to your feelings and.your conscience in how you are going to 15 handle the judgment on this evacuation plan.
16 I want to thank everybody that came_here to speak, -
17 but I cannot thank the Panel, because I think.it-was_my right' '
- 18 to speak.
19 (Applause) 20 JUDGE SMITH: Everyone having requested an -
21 opportunity to speak, having spoken, we willLadjourn now.and-22 meet again at 7:00 p.m..
23 (Whereupon, at 5:17.p.m., a recess.was.taken,fthe- i 24 meeting to reconvene at 7:00 p.m. the same day,' Wednesday,- d 25 December 16, 1987'.)
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8103-83 1 JUDGE SMITH: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
2 This is a continuation of a session that began this afternoon 3 in which we received limited public appearance statements from 4 members of the public.
5 We're ready to resume. My name is Ivan Smith. I'm
. 6 the Chairman of the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board, 7 presiding over this proceeding, which I'm sure you know 8 involves the off-site emergency plans for the Seabrook Nuclear 9 Power Station.
10 This is our sixth week of hearing on those issues.
11 To my right is Judge Linenberger, and to my left is Judge 12 Harbour who are scientists; also members of the Board.
13 We have generally taken people in the order in which 14 they've signed up, giving priority to those who have not spoken 15 before, and to those who we identified as residing in the ten l 16 mile emergency zone.
17 So far, we've been able to hear from everybody i 18 wishing to speak. The time has made it.possible for us to do 19 that. And we hope that we'll be able to accomplish that this 20 evening.
21 We'll begin with Representative Cushing. Has e
22 Representative Cushing returned? Representative Cushing will 23 be followed by Norma Beit, who will in turn will be followed by 5
24 Thomas Moughan.
25 \\
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'8103-84 1 STATEMENT OF ROBERT CUSHING, JR. ,
2 For the record, my name is Robert Cushing, Jr. I'm j i
3 State Representative from Seabrook, New Hampshire.
4 I must admit, I find myself in an awkward situation. !
5 Generally speaking, when I'm in the well here, I'm addressing 6 people who will make the decisions about matters before. ,
, i 7 And I'm not used to having-someone to my side who'll 8 be making the decision. So if it's okay with you, I'd like to 9 spin this around a little.
I 10 When I was coming up here to day, I went by Haunted-11 House Curve in Hampton. And there's a home.there -- the Old 12 Moulton Home --'that overlooks-the marsh in the Seabrook 13 project that is supposedly the site of, or.the setting for an 14 old New Hampshire and New England tale called the Devi1~and 15 Daniel Webster.
16 It's an old story about-people who sold.their: souls 17 to the devil.for eternity in. exchange for riches in the 18 immediate sense.
19 And it struck me that for.the'past'.' twenty years, and 20 continuing today, we've had a similar situation, where there -
21 have been people who have been eager.to sell their souls'for 22 financial reward -- to.make a. plutonium factory on the Seabrook 23 marsh -- plutonium, appropriately:the only element named after 24 the God of Hell.
25 I couldn't help but-think that although the people
~
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8103-85 1 who had sold their souls to the nuclear industry did so; that 2 the people like myself who live within proximity of the 3 Seabrook station, and have fought that, our souls haven't been 4 taken, and the souls of our community haven't been taken.
5 But what's then done is that our lives and safety,
, 6 and that of our future generations have been placed in 7 jeopardy.
8 And one of the things that I know have been absent l 9 in, I'd say, the past 17 years of deliberations on Seabrook 10 Station has been the establishment of the economic value of a 11 single human life, 12 And I would like the applicants, or the Staff, or 13 someone to come up with just a dollar figure on what a human i 14 life is worth -- to put' it'down in paper.
15 It seems to me that until that's done -- until you i 16 have that information before you -- that the record's 17 incomplete.
18 And I'd also submit that no matter what the cost --
19 no matter what the value that's assigned by the applicant to a 20 human life, that to those of us who live around there, it's a 21 subjective value, and it's priceless.
22 And I think that if you take that into consideration, 23 the pricelessness of human lives, you would have to reject this 24 application.
25 And I've also come here, as I have every time I Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
4 8103-86 1 appear before one of these agencies relating.to the.Seabrook 2' project, I feel myself in the middle of that -- the child's 3 story "Through the Looking Glass."
4 And this proceeding is part of that. For the past 20 5 years the people of the seacoast have been punished. You know 6 the story that through the looking glass first comes the ..
7 punishment, then comes the trial, and the crimefis last-of all?
8 Well, since the announcement of a nuclear plant on 9 the New Hampshire seacoast, people have been punished. They've 10 been punished by the first evacuees, those whose land -- or 11 those people who were evacuated, or relocated; cn: those 12 individuals who were forcibly driven from their' homes by-the 13 builders of the project.
14 After that punishment took place a trial ~took place.
15 through state agencies and other' bodies that'said, yes,'the .
16 punishment was,.indeed, warranted; your. homes are taken away.
17 That situation on the'whole presents it with a siting 18 situation. It's a fait accompli; the site has been announced.
19 And then the respondents -- the interveners that are Pare --
20 have been forced to go through the trial. -
21 In this current proceeding, we're dealing with'one 22 more look -- one more' step through the looking glass. .We're - 1 23 granted we've imposed upon us an-evacuation. plan that was not 24 of'our' making, not of our desire.
25 And we're going through, now, a trial, to see whether Heritage Reporting' ' Corporation (202)'628-4888
8103-87 1 or not this punishment is warranted.
l l 2 And I would just ask you all to put an end to this 3 nightmare; to put an end to the fairy tale. And while the 4 punishment will go on, the fall-out from this project, we'll 5 have to deal with it for a long while.
. 6 And other trials will go on. But what's paramount is 7 that the crime not be allowed to take place; and the crime 8 would be the operation of the Seabrook Atomic Plant.
9 And I'm asking you to look into your souls; to recall 10 in "The Devil and Daniel Webster" what the consequences of 11 those deals that take place; and simply to say, no, to say that 12 there's no price on human life; and the Seabrook Station should 13 not be licensed; people together should proceed t'o convert that
. 14 to a non-nuclear facility, and to rob the Devil of his Largos -
15 - the production of plutonium in the New Hampshire seacoast.
16 Thank you.
17 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Representative Cushing.
18 (Applause) 19 STATEMENT OF NORMA BEIT 20 MS. BEIT: Hello, gentlemen. My name is Norma Beit.
21 I'm from Newburyport, Massachusetts. I represent approximately 22 5000 members of citizens within the 10 mile radius, an l
23 organization that has members in both New Hampshire and 24 Massachusetts. i 25 I come here this af -- I came here this afternoon as ,
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8103-88 1 an observer, and found myself getting more and more by the
~2 hearing process that you decided to open up for "public 3 comment."
4 I have to question whether or not-this is, indeed,.as-5 was suggested, a kangaroo court.
6 When hundreds of our members we-o called to alert .
7 them to this hearing their response was, "Why go? JItv has 8 already.been decided."-
9 I'm here to ask you, "Has it been decided? Is this 10 hearing a sham? Or is it an honorable. attempt by-honorable 11 people to ascertain the truth?"
12 You hold enormous power. As a matter of fact, I'm-13 afraid of your power because it affects so personally myflife,.
14 and the lives of all whom I hold dear.
15 They say power corrupts, but in the hands of 16 honorable people it can be used for the common good. Is that 17 your intent?
18 You have a unique place in history, you three.
19 Heretofore, we did not have the grim examples of Chernobyl to 20 teach us that it can happen here. .
21 No one, I repeat, no one has.been able to prove that 22 a disaster could not happen at Seabrook.
23 We are told to believe -- just believe. 'Delieve the 24 power industry that has run roughshod over its rate payers; run.
25 roughshod over its investors; and even run roughshod over the Heritage Reporting' Corporation
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s 8103-89 1 NRC itself. ,
2 We are told to have faith. In who shouldfwe place 3 this faith? Gentlemen, I'm here to tell you.that our faith 4 quotient is on empty, and we now believe only in ourselves.
5 The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has not sent a
. 6 message to the industry.that its mandate is to protect the 7 citizens, and it~ surely has not given even a weak' signal'to us, 8- the citizens, that our concerns will-be acknowledged.
9 Out of 180 hours0.00208 days <br />0.05 hours <br />2.97619e-4 weeks <br />6.849e-5 months <br /> of. hearings on Seabrook h'ere, we 10 have been given five hours to state our concerns. I. repeat my 11 question to you -- and it's not-a rhetorical question -- has.it 12 already been decided? -
13 (Applause)
( 14 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Moughan?
15 STATEMENT OF THOMAS MOUGHAN 16 MR. MOUGHAN: My name is Thomas Moughan. I'm a-17 resident of Amesbury, Massachusetts. My family lives in 18 Amesbury, Newburyport and Merrimack,-three of1the emergency 19 planning zone communities in Massachusetts, which I guess makes 20 us a nuclear family of sorts.
21 I think the attendance at these hearings this r 22 afternoon and this evening speak somewhat about the attitude of 23 people in this region towards_this entire process.
I 24- This.is an issue that has' historically brought.out
-25 droves of people -- passionate people;' angry people; people who Heritage Reporting Corporation' (202) 628-4888
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8103-90 1 wanted to speak objectively to the issues; people who want to 2 speak from the heart and the stomach.
3 And I wonder if they finally have totally lost faith 4 that this process means anything. Edward Brown tells us -- the l
l 5 President of New Hampshire Yankee -- that Seabrook is going to I 6 be licensed, and is going to go on line. .
7 And I have to ask the question we've just asked --
l 8 has it already been decided? Does Edward Brown have some 9 inside information that the decision has been made?
10 You gentlemen must know if that's the case, or is not 11 the case, because you have the key role of this decision. I 12 think the issue that was discussed this afternoon during the f 13 evidentiary hearings about confidence in messages over the i
14 Emergency Broadcast System -- and where those messages come i 15 from is critical.
1 16 Real people respond in an orderly fashion, as the 17 attorneys for the applicant would like to have you believe.
18 I'd like to go back through a little history with j 19 you; and I'm going to crank it up a little bit because I don't 20 have much time. -
i 21 And there's been an awful lot of history that all the l 22 people here have lived with.
23 I started in this as a Legislative Aid in the 24 Statehouse in Boston, reviewing Draft Six of Seabrook's plans.
25 They are now into Draft 10. I don't realize -- they've changed l
l l
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
T 8103 1 the numbers -- but there have been 10 attempts at emergency' 2 plans.
3 Draft six, when I began to review them and make phone 4 l calls to some of the providers-in that plan,.such as Mass. Bay 5 Transit Authority, we began to find out that there were no:
. 6 agreements with anybody that we are told existed..
7 The Common's Union, the Officials had never said they 8 would be part of this thing. We called Northshore shopping 9 center, in~the reception area -- they had never signed'anything 10 and said they would in fact be.
11 Somebody visited them, and put them.in a-plan.
12 Little later on we visited the President, Father Deegan at 13 Marymount College; opened up a set of evacuation plans;'and 14 said Father Deegan,.have"you agreed to this?
15 He looked, and.was amazed to find the name of his 16 college all through the plans as a-reception' center.
17 I attended a' meeting in a' FEMA' office in Boston two' 18 years ago. One of the people at that1 meeting representing.the 19 NRC was Terry Harpster, who is now the Emergency-Planner-at 20 Seabrook Station.
21 Within.six months,1he was' working-for Seabrook 22 Station. We reviewed the ETEs that year, and.found that'the 23 ETEs suggested that there will be 5.5 people per_ vehicle 24 evacuating the beaches, a.td not showing how-they can be-25 evacuated.
i
. Heritage . Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-92 1 You find me one out of ten automobiles today that can 2 fit 5.5 people, and I'll be amazed.- We were told that-3 everybody was lined up there all. set to go. What we found is:a 4 house of cards; and as we started to pull those cards out of-5 that plan the whole house came crumbling down.
6 The town of North Andover wasn't all that lined'up to .
7 be a reception community; and there suis companies who were not-8 signed -- bus companies who were not signed.
9 We then went through a process in our communities in 10 Massachusetts as people in New Hampshire did, evaluating'those 11 plans, and in critiquing them, and in looking through them'to 12 find problems, at the suggestion of the applicant.
13 The applicant's representatives came into the towns 14 and set up panels to study the plans and fix them up- . We did 15 that, and we found that they were worse than we thought.
16 And we went to Governor Dukakis and we said Governor, 17 these plans are outrageous; they can't work; they're a fraud.
18 And the Governor wouldn't believe us.
19 And we went back to our town meetings, and we 20 presented it to the people. The only way you could move the '
21 Commonwealth of Massachusetts on.this-is to get out of this 22 crazy process; it's a fraud. And we did studies =, and we 23 presented the information to show-it was a fraud.
24 We were threatened. We had the representative of New 25 Hampshire Yankee come to meetings all over the area and say,.
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8103-93 ,
i 1 " Ladies and gentlemen, you have two choicest you can have a'
{
2 plant with a plan; or you can have a plant without a plan."
3 That is not what.the regulations said. Itcsaid you 4 must have a plan -- an adequate plan, your regulations. We 5 were not told that; we found that out for ourselves.
. 6 And we presented that to State officials, as people 7 in New Hampshire did to their local officials, and tried to do 8 to the Governor of New Hampshire. .
9 It took a year to convince Governor Dukakis-that that 10 plan was a farce. And it took Chernobyl to open his eyes. And 11 it took studies -- months of studies.-- for him to be 12 convinced.
13 And he'll.be accused of making a political statement.
( 14 by not' accepting those plans. However,_in New Hampshire.at'the.
15 same time, the town of Hampton,'in December of -- November of 16 1985, sent a letter to Governor Sununu-with three pages of 17 problems that they were siting for Governor-Sununu with regard 18 to evacuating Hampton.
19 While that letter was sitting in the Governor's 20 office, the Civil Defense Director was'already signing the.
21 ' statement of FEMA, saying, "These plans are complete; they're
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22 adequate. And they.wil1 protect-the people of this area." And 23 they totally ignored the town _of Hampton in algood faith. effort 24 raising issues.
-25 Is there any doubt, any' reason why that when an
' Heritage 1 Reporting' Corporation.
(202) 628-4888
8103-94 1 announcement'comes over.that EBS system that people are going 2 to pay no attention to it?
3 They are going to get in their cars and they're going 4 -to do what they have to do to protect themselves. Because 5 nobody is going to believe what the utility is saying; what 6 certain state officials'are saying;.or what'the NRC'islsaying.. ,
7 And you have an opportunity now to begin-to turn that 8 process around. In addition to having.the hindsight oi:
9 Chernobyl, you also are now being presented'probably the first 10 time in the history of this process with afpopulation 11 critiquing and showing you why itican't work, and why it will-12 now work.
13 And we --
, 14 JUDGE SMITH: Would.you prepare,to conclude? -Your-15 time has expired.
16 MR. MOUGHAN: .And we are hopeful -- many of us-17 skeptical, many of us angry -- but I think -there's . hope in-18 people that you will turn the tide on this.
19 Because if you cannot do this there is no' reason to 20 expect that the. people do-not consider.you part of the problem. ..
21 And you either have a choice.of being part of the problem or 22 'part of the solution.
23 And we hope.you'll be part of the solution.
24 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you. .
25 (Applause)
Heritage Reporting Corporation-(202)?628-4888-
l 8103-95 1 JUDGE SMITH: Geoff Hubbell, please. , i l
2 STATEMENT OF GEOFF HUBBELL 3 MR. HUBBELL: Hi, friends. I'm a native American,
]
4 just like the rest of us. Most of us are native Americans.
I 5 And part of my belief as a native American, I use a drum in my 1
. 6 ceremonies.
7 And I was unable to bring my drum but I brought my 8 drum stick. And I hoped to have beaten my drum so we could 9 have opened our hearts to this process on -- I make no 10 judgments on what this public hearing is.
11 I feel honored that I got a communique to be here 12 tonight. So I'd just like -- I'd just like to say that, 13 friends, I invite you to feel the heartbeat of our Mother s 14 Earth.
15 I don't have my drum, but the heartbeat of the Mother 16 Earth, like all our mothers, who has nurtured us, and who we 17 respect and love very much.
18 So the earth that we walk on is our mother. And I 19 know none of us would want to do any sort of harm to our 20 mother, the one that has nurtured us, and has brought life into 21 our heart.
22 So I'd just like us to meditate for a minute, and 23 feel that heartbeat of our Mother Earth.
24 (Pause) 25 MR. HUBBELL: I make a plea for our Mother Earth and Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-96~
1 all her beings. We -- the technological ones, have created-2 many harms in our pursuit of happiness.
3 The idea of nuclear power is one of these harms.
4 Mother Earth and her children are being harmsd'right 5 now, even without a so-called accident. People of this-6 technology, tonight, right now, is.an emergency. -
7 We need-not spend any more of'the mother's precious 8 resources in planning for the futr"e. Be here now and' start 9 acting in a way to end this and all technological madness.
10 Let us all unite and become reconnectedito the light 11 forces of our universe.
12 And create no'more life threatening technologies.
13 And once again live with our mother in peace, in love', in 14 harmony and trust.
15- Thank you.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
17 (Applause) 18 JUDGE SMITH: Cornelia Iselin.
19 STATEMENT OF CORNELIA ISELIN-20 MS. ISELIN: I'think I shall stand, too, as others; -
21 have, and face you, because I want to thank you very much for 22 allowing us to have this privilege.-
23 We were pained when we found at.the beginning of' 24' these hearings that you were not disposed to listen to views 25 from the public in general.
Heritage- Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-97 1 And it is with-partial feelings of coming back-to'the i 1
2 law, and to respect for the law, that I come before you' 3 tonight.
4 Twelve years ago, I joined a New England coalition 5 because I have respect for the law. To my disappointment, and' -
. 6 to that of many people who've read the history of what has 7 happened, we have'found that there have been-ways in which the I 8 law has been swept under the rug.
9 And I_ won't go through-all of the history of the 10 disappointments. We had a number of very fine contentions on 11 quality control that were put before the hearing process in.
12 1983.
13 And they were turned down. We have two which have
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14 been admitted, and which must be passed-before Seabrook can go 15 on line.
16 I think you are probably aware-of these. There is a 17 third which may be brought before the hearing in theicourse of 18 the winter.
19 One is -- the'one that has been accepted -- is the 20 question of a biofouling of the cooling system. That will be 21 heard. .
22 The adequacy of the -- sorry, just'a moment. Put on 23 my glasses here; get-this straight. The routine inspections of 24 generating' tubes is another one that needs reexamination'. I-25 understand that Lando.Zech is concerned about this as well, j
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8103-98 1 Not admitted yet is a third contention, which I hope 2 will be heard, on the environmental quality of RG-58 coaxial 3 cable, which we contend is not supported in the record.
4 And there is almost 10 miles of this cable in the-5 plant. Those are three from 28 contentions with which we 6 challenged the licensing -- the operating license for Seabrook .
7 plan.
8 We have very little comfort in thinking that those 9 other contentions will not be heard before Seabrook goes on 10 line, if it does, because-in other cases in history -- as we 11 know, Three Mile Island failed to have many contentions heard, 12 and they turned out to be a complete backfire.
13 Just to finish up with the problems of not having 14 regard for the law. When we are operating within a system 15 under the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which is a system that 16 is patterned by t' e law courts of the United States of America.
17 I was really grieved to hear from our counsel, 18 Eleanor Weiss, that there was a message from the Nuclear 19 Regulatory Commission delivered to her office this last week, 20 announcing that the FEMA has, strangely enough, come forth with -
21 a proposal which they propose to enact.on an interim basis'.
22 It is based on a proposal by the Nuclear Regulatory l
l 23 Commission. Comment period will end on February 29th. And 24 this has to do with the acceptance of utility plans when state 1
I 25 plans are not being forth-coming.
l Heritage Reporting' Corporation l (202) 628-4888
8103-99 l
1 And the state of Massachusetts -- this, as we know is 2 the case with Seabrook. Here we are talking about New 3 Hampshire licenses, but there is another state involved here.
4 And we find that an end run is being carried out 5 right now by agencies of the American government. And we
. 6 intend, certainly, to bring this before the U.S. Courts. I 7 hope that you will take a message back to your people because I 8 know that you are judges and that you have respect for the law.
9 Until we find something better, we all better live by 10 the law or we're in big trouble. And this is a most untoward 11 presumption.
12 It is based on three actual assumptions or 13 presumptions on the part of FEMA. One is that the state of 14 Massachusetts will do its best to comply with its interim 15 proposal.
16 The second is that the state will follow the utility 17 plan. And the third, strangest of all, is that the state will 18 have the resources ready to implement the plan, 19 This is startling. I mean, if you can get resources 20 ready as fast as FEMA has put together criteria in just a few 21' days, we are not doing a very good job; and there's no reason j 22 for having all this process behind it.
23 I do hope that you will take this message home, and I 24 thank you for allowing us to speak before you tonight.
25 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Iselin.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888 1
1 l
i
8103-100 1 (Applause) 2 JUDGE SMITH: Jeanne Fox, please.
3 MS. FOX: I'm Jeanne Fox, from Newburyport, Mass.
4 I'm a member of C-10 and the Greater Newburyport Chamber of 5 Commerce.
6 I've been writing this thing. I didn't expect to be ,
7 called so soon because when I have to stand here and talk to 8 you I turn red; I start stuttering; I start looking at the 9 ceiling.
10 But I'll read what I've written. And you know, I'll 11 try to express what I'm feeling about being here.
12 As owner, with my husband, of a bed-and-breakfast in 13 Newburyport, we have had many opportunities to discuss the 14 Seabrook issue with a variety of people from around the world, 15 among whom have been nuclear scientists, judges, pipe fitters, 16 electricians, doctors.
17' In eight years of breakfast conversation with 18 hundreds of guests, I can recall only two persons-who didn't 19 feel that the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant was a* complete 20 mistake. -
21 One of the people who was in favor of the nuke plant 22 was a nuclear scientist from Oakridge, Tennessee. He thought 23 the nuclear waste was no problem.
24 We could always put it in Nevada. Everyone knows 25 Nevada already glows. My husband and I read about this hearing Heritage Reporting' Corporation l (202) 628-4888
8103-101 l 1 in the paper and came here as supportive observers, not really 2 expecting that we be able to voice our position. But here I 3 am.
4 We moved to Newburyport from Boston to have a better 5 way of life. Being dependent on a tourist-oriented business
- 6 for my living, it would be redundant to repeat the traffic-jam, 7 stampede, stranded school children images that have already 8 been most eloquently illustrated by others today who've gone 9 before me.
10 At the end of July, we have a week long celebration 11 in Newburyport called Yankee Homecoming. It originated in the 12 1860s to honor the Yankee soldiers returning home from the 13 civil war; and they do it every year now, too, you know, as a
,, 14 celebration, and a way to bring families together that live all 15 ,over.
16 And I mean, the place is absolutely packed for the 17 entire week. All the inns are filled; the roads are filled; 18 the beaches are filled.
19 For example, on Tuesday of Yankee Homecoming, among 20 many other events, there's an annual 10 mile road race.
21 Fifteen hundred runners participated this year while thousands 22 of on-lookers lined the route. j
?
23 On Sunday there are annual fireworks. Thirty-five 24 thousand people watched from the waterfront in downtown 25 Newburyport.
i l
Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202)'628-4888 J
-l 8103-102 1 A lot of people take this opportunity to party-2 hearty. I would shudder to imagine an evacuation at this time.
1 3 For my own personal concern, an accident at nearby Seabrook i 4 would be a complete disaster for us, j 5 We wouldn't have to bother evacuating because there 6 wouldn't be any life left for us. I don't have to be a , ;
I 7 scientist to figure out that one hour, or ten minutes of
~
8 intense radiation at such ridiculously close proximity is 9 enough to destroy my quality of health forever, as well as the 10 total loss of my business, and access to Seacoast, 11 Massachusetts, and New Hampshire to which I am a hostess for 12 people that come here.
13 -
I mean, why will people come here. Tourists come 14 here to see this beautiful seacoast to see Newburyport.
15 Newburyport has the best 16th, 17th and 18th architecture in 16 the country.
17 I happen to like that; I appreciate that. We have a 18 Charles Bullfinch Courthouse. If anything happened at that 19 nuke plant you'd never see it again.
20 Nobody would be able to come here for 20,000 miles -
21 up. Maybe you could look down with binoculars. And I don't 22 think that's fair to take Plum Island, and all the beautiful 23 things that we have here away from future generations.
24 They've been here 300 years. Let them stay another 25 300 years. It's up to you.
I Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888 L
,1 8103-103 I
- I 1 (Applause) ,
j 2 JUDGE SMITH: Nancy Hirshberg, please. Will be 3 followed by Shelley Nelkens.
4 You can face-us -- yes, if you feel more comfortable .
S with that microphone.
. 6 Is Lynn Chong here?
7 STATEMENT OF NANCY HIRSHBERG 8 MS. HIRSHBERG: Okay. Thanks. I'm going to read t 9 this, too. I am not a public speaker. This is my.first; time 10 up here. -
11 My name is Nancy Hirshberg. I am from Freedom, New 12 Hampshire. I was born and raised.here in New Hampshire. My 13 family, lived for a period in Rye, which is in a ten mile zone.
, 14 -
I wasn't planning-on speaking today. Butibecause of 15 some of the events earlier, I decided to. The first' point:I 16 would like to raise addresses an issue from this afternoon's 17 testimony.
18 Judge Smith reprimanded a woman earlier-today, 19 explaining that she should feel fortunate'for having the 20 opportunity to speak.
21 I raise this issue not as a counter-reprimand, but 22 simply as an explanation. I'm a teacher. I don't know about-23 where you're from but here in New Hampshire,lwe do not teach 24 children that they should be greatful for an-opportunityJto 25 partake in issues - -
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8103-104:
1- JUDGE SMITH': I never said'anything.like that. .
2 MS. HIRSHBERG: I wrote down your quote:words.
~3- JUDGE SMITH: I did not use that, but go ahead.
4 MS. HIRSHBERG: Okay. Thanks. Okay -- we.do not 5 teach children that'they should be grateful for an opportunity 6 to' partake-in issues which profoundly effect their lives, nor ,
7 merely that they have a right. .
8 Children learn that'as a member of a participatory 9 democracy they.have a responsibilitysto be sure that'their 10 voices are heard by.our elected officials and governing bodies.
11 .The very nature of your presence here;to hear 12 testimony on the evacuation. plans for the Seabrook plans is.
13 very significant.
14 -
Evacuation plans are.necessary because a v<ery reall 15 potential for disaster ~does exist. . And we must take this 16 responsibility seriously.
17 We'are not here to argue whether-orinot that-18 potential exists. We, the people of New Hampshirei know from 19 very personal experience that accidents do . occur -- , of course, 20 I speak of the shuttle. .
21 It is your moral responsibility to take this threat 1
22 of nuclear catastrophe seriously. I.have several personal R 23 experiences with emergency-evacuations which I would like to j 24 share with you.
25 Unfortunately, because of time, .I'll justLtell you Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-105 l 1 about one.
1 2 Several years ago, I was working, doing my student-3 teaching internship in Western Massachusetts, in an eighth 4 grade science class. )
5 At about 1 o' clock in the afternoon, many people in
. 6 school began to have teary eyes and soar throats. Within half 7 an hour, rumors began circulating throughout the school that 8 there had been a train derailment just a few miles-from school.
9 This, in fact, was true. A train with a cargo of 10 several toxic chemicals had derailed, and was leaking gas into 11 the air.
12 We didn't know, at that time, what the gas was. I 13 realize that t.his example does not directly parallel the 14 situation with the nuke plant because-the town did not have 15 plans for evacuating -- we didn't know anything about them if 16 they did.
17 The point I want to make concerns my personal 18 reaction at that time -- my personal feelings once I learned of 19 the danger I found myself in.
20 My immediate reaction was simple: run, get out of 21 there; to get as far from the toxic air as possible. I was 22 shocked with my reaction.
23 I consider myself a very caring, very concerned and 24 giving person. But never had I been asked, in my teacher 25 training, or upon agreeing to accept my internship at that Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-106 1 school, to risk my life, or the health of my yet unborn ,
2 children.
3 It was probably not the best time to have to ponder 4 such a deep philosophical dilemma. Due to the time limitation 5 tonight, I won't go into the process which followed, but I will 6 tell you this: I did leave. .
7 You, who do not know me and who were not there have
~
8 absolutely no right to judge my moral character or my decision.
9 The point I'm trying to make here is that the event -
10 - any event of a life-threatening situation of any kind -- you 11 cannot expect people to react in any normal, rational, or 12 predictable manner. You cannot expect the expected.
13 You know this; I know you do. The risk at Seabrook 14 and at Seacoast is too great. It is impossible to evacuate the-15 area within any reasonable amount of time, any time of the 16 year.
17 You know it; I know you know it. My hope is that you 18 have the moral courage to act on what you know and feel, and 19 say no to this foolishness.
20 Thanks. -
21 (Applause) .
22 JUDGE SMITH: Shelley Nelkens.
23 STATEMENT OF SHELLEY NELKENS i l
24 MS. NELKENS: Hi, my name is Shelly Nelkens, N-E-L-K-25 E-N-S, from Anthrom [ph), New Hampshire.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-107 1 My name was originally Nelkenstuck. When my father-2 came over here from Nazi, Germany, he removed-the " stuck."
3 I wanted to preface this with jurt one comment. My 4 grand-parents died in.Auschwitz,'and I grew up with-no-5 illusions about the: capacity for evil that is within many H
. 6 people.
-7 And I can only pray.for the sake of your souls, as 8 well as ours -- not our souls, for our lives -- that -- because 9 I think our souls are doing okay - that you will not. knowingly.
10 place peoples' lives in jeopardy.
11 According to NUREG-0654, the evacuation plans are not 12 designed to prevent. exposure to the public; they're only.
13 planned to minimize exposure to the public.
14 I do not have confidence that. people will'_never be 15, placed in a position of danger for the same reason.that the 16 nuclear industry has well demonstrated that-they have no 17 confidence that their plants are safe.
18' If they had confidence in their plants,-the 19 designers, builders, manufacturers of nuclear power plants, 20 such as GE, Westinghouse, Babcock & Wilcox'would not.say that 21 they will assume no liability for an accident -- even in'the 22 event of gross negligence, willful misconducts -- misconduct :
23 - criminal intent.
24 I can understand these people,saying they. don't want.
25 to be liable for an accident --
if it'is'truly an accident; if Heritage. Reporting' Corporation
.(202) 628-4888
8103-108 1 they'did their best. But they're not saying that.
2 They're saying they do not want to have any liability 3 even if criminal intent is involved, or gross negligence, or 4 willful misconduct.
5 If you do not truly believe that this evacuation plan 6 will truly keep the public from coming to harm if a plant such .
7 as Seabrook has an accident, please, for the sake of your.
9 8 souls, don't approve this plan.
9 Thank you.
10 (Applause) 11 JUDGE SMITH: Jack Lightfoot. Will be followed by 12 Dan Smart; followed by Douglas Smart.
13 -
STATEMENT OF JACK LIGHTFOOT 14 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Thank you. My name ic. Jack 15 Lightfoot. I am on the Board of,Directorslof the Star Island 16 Corporation. And I'm speaking on their behalf this evening.
17 Star Island, as you may know, is a rocky island about 10 10 miles from Seabrook station. During the summer months, it 19 serves as a church conference center.
20 At any one time, there may be as many as 450 to 475
- 21 people on the island. The island's primary link to the 22 mainland is the ship " Thomas B. Leighton" which is 23 independently owned and operated by the Isles of Shoals ,
. i 24 steamship company, and which is based in Portsmouth. l i
25 The Star Island Corporation is not an. expert.on !
Heritage Reporting' Corporation l (202) 628-4888 A
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1 nuclear power, in general, nor on the safety of-Seabrook ,
2 station in particular.
3 It does seem to us, however, that if any 4 consideration is to be given-to the safety of the conferees, 5 visitors, and employees on the island, several facts need to be
. 6 considered, as they may be unique to that is3and.
7 Although Star Island has done some initial work-in 8 preparing evacuation plans unrelated to Seabrook, and state 9 officials have helped in our efforts, they have declined to 10 discuss the island's needs in relation:to Seabrook.
11 No alternative sites for docking the Thomas B.
12 Leighton have been identified. Thus, if Portsmouth is closed 13 to use, due to the evacuation from Seabrook, no'new site will 14 be prepared to accept the up.to 475 evacuees.
15 On an everage of once or twice each summer, severe 16 weather prevents any. boats at all from_ docking at Star Island.
17 The availability of the Thomas B. Leighton to 18 evacuate the island in the event of a Seabrook emergency is 19 subject to conjecture for the following reasons:
20 If, as seems possible, the emergency occurs.on a hot 21 summer day, the boat is-likely-to be fully loaded with day 22 tourists, leaving no room for those residing on.the island.
23 It is not likely that the boat will return.to the.
24 mainland, drop'its load of passengers, and return to-Star .
25 Island for evacuation.
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_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ 'l
8103-110 1 The Isles *of Shoals Steamship Company has only a 2 contractual relationship with the Star Island Corporation. It 3 is not possible to guarantee that a crew will volunteer to-go ,
4 to the island in the event.of an emergency. !
5 The Thomas B. Leighton is based in Portsmouth, not on 6 Star Island. Thus, for much of any given day, it is at least- .
7 50 minutes from the island.
~
8 Even if the Thomas B..Leighton'is available, no,
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9 planning has been done to assess the speed with which 10 evacuation could, or~should be accomplished.
11 If the boat is-.in Portsmouth,;the following is an-12 estimate of the minimum time needed in good whether. From 13 Portsmouth to. Star Island is a minimum of 50. minutes.-
14 - To load 450 evacuees onto the Thomas B. Leighton 15 would require about 30 minutes, and again, if we are able to go 16 back to Portsmouth, that's another 50 minutes.
17 Of course, if Portsmouth is notfavailable, as I said 18 earlier, no alternative document facilities have been 19 identified, and we cannot estimate:how much time it would-take 20 to get back to the mainland. -
21 Thank you very much. .
22 (Applause).
23
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8103-111 1 JUDGE SMITH: Dan Smart. Douglas Smart, would,you 2 be prepared to follow Dan Smart?
3 STATEMENT OF DANIEL SMART 4 MR. DANIEL SMART: My name is Dan Smart. I live in 5 New Hampshire. I represent the people in the town against the
. 6 plant. I think it is unrealistic in terms of safety. I did 7 not come prepared with a speech, so I am just here speaking for 8 the people against the plant.
9 Thank you.
10 (Applause) 11 STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS SMART 12 MR. DOUGLAS SMART: My name is Doug Smart. I am from 13 Newton, New Hampshire. I'm as embarrassed as my brother Dan 14 and I am not prepared, either. But I do represent hundreds of 15 people that I've talked to, in feeling that this plant is very 16 unrealistic.
17 What I would like to know is, are there really 18 American people behind this plant?
19 (Applause) 20 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Comley, do you wish to be heard?
21 STATEMENT OF STEPHEN.COMLEY 22 MR. COMLEY: You don't mind if I stand, do you?
23 JUDGE SMITH: No, that is fine. Don't come any 24 closer.
25 (Laughter)
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8103-112 1 MR. COMLEY: I would like to talk if I could. ,
2 VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: Of course you would.
3 MR. COMLEY: All right. I would like to speak.
4 JUDGE SMITH: Get on with your remarks, Mr. Comley.
5 Get on with your remarks.
6 MR. COMLEY: I want to say first of all that I began .
7 my journey a long time ago. I've learned a lot since them and I 8 think I have done it very responsibly, sir, and everyone else 9 that is here.
10 The only trouble that I really have had any time, 11 anywhere, is when people do not treat me like an American. And 12 I guess I have had that with the Governor, and I have had that 13 in Washington recently, when they even restricted freedom of 14 speech.
15 That really is the only time that I think I really 16 feel that I really have to speak out. And I have done it more 17 for what this country was founded for than I have for myself.
18 I look at these men here, I look at Mr. Lincoln, and 19 he is my favorite, because a long time ago he made a very 20 courageous and leadership decision, and that is that he freed -
21 the slaves.
22 That is really what the American people want right 23 now, is they want to be free of the nuclear industry, because !
24 they have made some violations of this country.
25 October 29 was it recommended by the NRC that the-I' Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888 H
i I
_ 8103-113 1 Federal Government make the choice whether we should have a-2 right to say in the evacuation of our own kids. And that-3 really is what it bears down to. Because, Mr. Smith, I nope 4 that eventually you're going to think that I'm a friend of 5 yours, because I am.
. 6 I was going to come over there and.I was going to 7 shake your hand first, and I was' going to offer my hand. And 8 you have said that I did some things in some_ threatening ways.
9 Well, I don't agree with that, sir. And I really resent it.
10 But that is really your freedom to say that., And that is what-11 democracy is about.
12 But I guess when I first found out that the NRC, and 13 I have had a pretty close relationship with the NRC with some
- , 14 very good people, and I have to believe that you_are a good J5 person, too. Because you made a courageous decision, too. You 16 really went back on what you said and said that the people 17 could speak.
18 I have a lot of respect for you, sir,-for doing that, 19 because that wasn't easy. But I expect you now to really take 20 the leadership role and show the NRC that.you are not going to 21 take it any more, because I know that you have seen some. things-22 that-have gone on in there that are wrong, because I've seen 23 them and I'm_not out of~the Raleigh Marshes. q 24 .I spent 22 weeks in Washington. And I'wasn't-
- )
25 sunbathing. I have had some detectives working, too. And I-
-j Heritage Reporting ' Corporation l (202) 628-4888' l
____________ __-_ _ l
8103-114 1 don't make idle threats, Seabrook. And that's what Kite said 2 to me last time I was in Washington, But I guarantee you, sir, 3 that we are going to prove to you that there were some things 4 going on at Seabrook sir -- you, too.
5 Falsification of welds. Knowingly, this was going 6 on, by the workers, it was going on at Seabrook. But they ,
7 spoke up, some of them. They took it to their supervisors.
8 And it wasn't followed up.
9 Also, I want to say that the issue really started out 10 with me regarding Seabrook. It is not the issue any more. The 11 issue is freedom of choice. And that is what this. country was 12 founded for, by a protestor right up there.
13 -
He was a protestor. I am a protestor, and I am proud
, 14 of it. I am an American protestor, and I am protesting because 15 the NRC is abusing my kids. A,nd I will tell you, if that isn't 16 a hard rock, I don't know what is. Because you aren't going to 17 move me. And I've gotten smart, and I'm a smart man, and I'm 18 not starving and these people aren't starving. And you're 19 going to help us, and I believe that.
20 I want you to do what you feel down inside your guts, .
21 what you know is truth. And you know this is wrong. Becauce I 22 have had a Commissioner tell me, I have had other people in the 23 NRC tell me that Seabrook is in the wrong location. And we all 24 know it.
25 We also know the industry has made an Edsel and Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-115 1 they've got it in the wrong garage, and we're not buying it.
2 We have an industry that is producing waste that is active for 3 10,000 years. And we don't have a say in.that, for our kids 4 and future generations?
5 There's something wrong here, and we have to prove
. 6 something.
7 Last week, I sent a' plane up. I love this building.
8 I've been here quite a few times. The only thing that is wrong-9 with it, I can't get my plane in here. I had a banner.out.
10 today. And this is another famous date. This is'the 16th.
11 The 214th anniversary of the Tea Party. I don't make too many 12 predictions, but I predict this. We.are going to have a giant-13 te,a party in this country if that Seabrook opens at 5 percent, 14 and we are not going to allow it.
15 Because again -- and I don't like to repeat myself --
16 but we, you are talking about our kids. And you're not going 17 to move us.
18 I believe'in the law, and I also believe that the' law 19 is doing this. I had a lot.of. things happen to me. And the 20 Bible says, in the Bible it says -- so many people say well, 21 you know -- well, not'so many. Let.me. correct that. I was 22 taught, believe in the Lord. You don't have to see him to 23 believe in him. I believe in him, because I know. And I don't
~
24 have to see. '
25 Well, I don't have to see Chernobyl happen at
. Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-116 1 Seabrook to believe it can happen.
2 Last week I sent a banner up in Washington. It said, 3 "Mr. Gorbachev, help us stop Chernobyl here -- We, the People."
4 And the Secret Service got involved, on a Saturday, prior to 5 sending it up. And they said we cannot stop you, but we advise 6 you not to fly that banner. .
7 And Monday, the pilot approached the tower, because 8 that's his business, freedom of speech, and they told him, we 9 have orders to not allow you to fly that banner, and it won't 10 be flown within seven miles of Washington. And you will not be 11 allowed to fly any more banners until after the summit.
12 Now, I don't know. It appeared to me that they were 13 more afraid of that banner than they were of the missiles.
14 And I feel that if we don't have freedom of speech in 15 this country, we are no different than Russia. We really 16 aren't. I think it is a disgrace to have done that. They can 17 say it was for security. I know it wasn't security. They 18 singled us out again. And it's not.right.
19 We are spreading out. And I will guarantee you this.
20 You and I are going to have a long relationship. -
21 (Laughter) .
22 MR. COMLEY: Because I am not stopping at Seabrook.
23 I know of a lot of other things that are going on. We are 24 spreading out and you are going to see a lot of us. And I hope 25 that you and I, and I hope that you don't think that I was l
l Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
. - _-_- _ ___ - _ -- _ ___ _ _ _ _-_-_-__ - ____ - _ _ __- _ - a
8103-117 1 threatening you the last time I was here, because I wasn't. I 2 don't threaten. I tell you the facts. And I expect you to 3 believe me on that point.
4 If there are some things that you don't like about 5 me, then you tell me, and I'll see what I can do to correct
. 6 that because I know, I know that we can't do this without you 7 and I know we can't do it without the rest of the people in the 8 NRC. And I hope that you will allow me to.see me privately, 9 because I request that, and I request that for everyone in this 10 room. And I say do it, for your -- what you took your oath 11 for.
12 I am not a man who is going to insult you, because 13 that never gets me anywhere or gets you anywhere. Yet I can s
14 understand where that comes from and why.
15 So it is not, you know, it is not Seabrook.
16 JUDGE SMITH: I think you should plan to summarize 17 your remarks now.
18 MR. COMLEY: All right. Well, I would like to -- can 19 I shake your hand? Would that be all right?
20 JUDGE SMITH: Later, Mr. Comley. Let's take care of 21 the affairs of the evening, for a start. Summarize your 4
22 remarks and let's take care of the affairs of the evening. But 23 I appreciate your attitude you have expressed this evening, and 24 the sentiment and the mood, and it is much appreciated.
25 MR. COMLEY: I hope this will change some things Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-118 1
1 obviously in how you feel-about me. ,
2 JUDGE SMITH: I would like to have you summarize your i
3 remarks on the issues rather than getting into the personal 4 relationship, because that is why we are here. There are 5 others who may be waiting. And would you please proceed on 6 that basis? .,
7 MR. COMLEY: All right. 'Well, I guess it's pretty.
8 hard to' sum it up-other than saying I hope you will -- and I 9 believe-that you will, but I guess I hope, too, that you' 10 will' - join us in representing'what this country was founded 11 for, and that is, for us to have a say in the-Government when 12 we know that there is something; wrong and that no matter how 13 much time it takes, the real experts are the people. ..
14 I guess an issue like this has really removed us from 15 actually our selfish feelings, because we have a great 16 responsibility and a duty to not give our children of future 17 generations more than what we had because that prevents growth..
18 But what we do require and whatl responsibility,we do 19 have is to give them at least the same opportunities that we 20 have, to 6 ave the struggles in life. -
21 That's the summary. Can I shake your hand?
22 JUDGE SMITH: Later.
23 (Applause) 24 JUDGE SMITH: Dr. Laura-Ricard,hiease.
25 Heritage Reporting' Corporat' ion -
(202) 628-4888
1 8103-119 1 STATEMENT OF LAURA RICARD, PH.D. ,
2 DR. RICARD: Thank you very much, sirs, for allowing 3 me to speak. I really did not expect to.be able to speak 4 tonight. I 5 I am an historian. I teach at Phillips Exeter o 6 Academy, and I think that some of our people have'already 7 talked to you about the. response of the Academy to the >
8 evacuation proposal. I just want to say a couple'of things to 9 you from a really personal perspective. I think-that thisLis 10 important, because this evacuation is going to rest on 11 thousands of people like myself, who are educators.
12 I want you to know that I have'a real-healthy:
13 respect, if not a fear, of authority, that I am a good,lor I 14 try to be a good Christian. person. I believe in.doing unto
, 15 others as I would like them to'do unto me.
16 I really want.to do my job well as an educator.
17 However, I can tell you,.after hours and hours of thought about 18 this evacuation thing and the whole Seabrook thing, that'if -
19 that siren ever went, I would abandon my students, I would 20 abandon my responsibilities to-the Academy. I am untenured.
21 There are people from the Academy here, whofmight not be happy 22 in hearing me say this, but I have also,said this'in front'of 23 the full faculty.
24 I would not live up to-my. responsibilities under.that.
25 circumstance. I have a'six-year old' daughter, who is my first Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-120 1 responsibility, and I would do whatever was.in my power to get 2 her out of school and get out fast.
3 Thank you very much.
4 (Applause) 5 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you. There may be a lag between 6 the sign-up and having the sheets delivered to us. We have ,
7 nobody else who, as far as I know, has requested an opportunity 8 to speak. If I am mistaken, please bring that to our 9 attention.
10 Furthermore, we did have a five-minute limitation.
11 If there is anybody who feels that they were not given an 12 opportunity to conclude, let us know about that.
13 -
We will take a ten-minute break and see if anybody 14 else comes that wishes to make their views known.
15 (Whereupon, a brie,f recess was taken.)
16 JUDGE SMITH: We will resume hearing statements. The 17 next speaker will be J. Wilcox Brown, followed by Kevin 18 Larmand, followed by Carol Carstarphen, who will be followed by 19 Mary Jensen.
20 If you will please be prepared.
- 21 Mr. Brown, how do you do, sir.
22 STATEMENT OF J. WILCOX BROWN 23 MR. BROWN: Mr. Chairman, my name is Wilcox Brown, 24 from Dunbarton, New Hampshire. I am here in the role of shades 25 of Christmas past, I guess.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-121 1 In other words, I have been connected with the ,
2 Seabrook intervention from the earliest days. In 1972, I was a 3 member of the Subsidiary Board on Fill and Dredge that sat with 4 but down from the Site Evaluation Committee.
5 From 1973, through the time the company, in its own
, 6 total unwisdom decided to proceed full blast with construction, 7 I was active in the intervention. That is, I worked with the 8 organizations which were legally declared interveners, appeared 9 and testified at every possible opportunity.
10 It was a fairly disillusioning experience. I can 11 recall several instances in which the Licensing Board gave what 12 we considered a reasonable decision. Within the week, it was 13 pverturned by the Appeals Board. If the Appeals Board gave 14 what we considered a reasonable decision, within a week it was 15 overturned by the NRC. And I think you can find that as a 16 matter of record.
17 However, those of us who were intervening felt it was 18 our duty to do our best, and we particularly sought to do that 19 in areas that logically should be dealt with before a plant was 20 constructed, particularly rad. waste disposal and evacuation.
21 We were denied the opportunity at the appropriate 22 time in the mid-1970s, to testify on those matters. It was 23 determined to be a matter of rule that the NRC said that had to 24 wait until the plant was completed, which struck us then and 25 even more forcefully now, as totally unwise.
Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
l 8103-122 1 I rec'all, in the Summer of 1977, since our 2 attorneys, and I am not an attorney, I am a forester and a 3 conservationist, since our attorneys had been denied the 4 opportunity to testify on these subjects and bring expert 5 witnesses, I took the available channel, which was an 6 invitation to speak to the Boston Rotary Club, which might also ,
7 be deemed the quasi-fiscal backers of Seabrook. But, 8 nevertheless, I took that opportunity. And if the text of my 9 remarks should be of any interest, I did speak specifically 10 there of the difficulty, if not impossibility, of coping with 11 evacuation on an adequate basis or a safe basis. And I think l 12 that has been thoroughly borne out by more recent events.
13 On the basis of these experiences, I guess my plea f 14 would be to you gentlemen to use, with all deliberate speed, 15 the decision not to permit low-range firing of whatever the 16 right term is. I don't have the right term for that, but you 17 know what I mean.
18 If that is permitted, then the entire plant will be 19 rendered useless for any purpose except nuclear power, because 20 of radiation. .
21 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Brown, that is a decision that will 22 be made by others, not by us.
23 MR. BROWN: I can appreciate that, sir, but you are 24 the group to which we have the opportunity of speaking. And I 25 thank you for that opportunity.
r*
Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-123 1 (Applause) 2 JUDGE SMITH: I didn't mean to cut you short. Mr.
3 Brown, I didn't intend to cut you short. I just was pointing 4 that out as a matter of information. If you weren't concluded 5 please continue.
, 6 MR. BROWN: Well, I understand there is a contest 7 going on here to see who can be briefest and most to the point.
8 And I was competing in that contest.
l 9 JUDGE SMITH: You were very definitely that.
10 (Applause)
(
11 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Larmand.
1 12 STATEMENT OF KENNETH LARMAND 13 MR. LARMAND: l Good evening, gentlemen. My name is j 14 Kevin Larmand, from Salisbury, Massachusetts. I live about l l
l l 15 three and a half miles from the front gate of the Seabrook J l
16 plant.
)
1 17 As you gentlemen, I am sure, are and so am I, a very 18 patriotic American. And I don't say that lightly. I was very 19 dismayed when these hearings started that we were not going to 20 be allowed to speak. I did come tonight under the impression 21 that the speakers were only going to speak by invitation only.
22 You have restored some of my faith in the system when you said 23 you would take names for speakers. I am completely unprepared.
24 I am a little nervous. But I am glad that I am able to 25 exercise my right.
4 l
Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-124 1 The Constitution is very important to me as an 2 American. It is probably the single most important document in 3 the world, probably it is. And in that document, that document 4 states very plainly that the power of the Government comes from 5 me, the people. Not from any businessman, not from any special 6 interest group, not from any legislative, executive or judicial ,
7 body. It comes from the people, and nobody but.
8 If there is something happening in the Government 9 that the people don't like, we can change it.
10 It is becoming increasingly more difficult to do 11 that. We live in a very complex society. Communications 12 happen so fast, we are awash in communications that the average 13 person just cannot keep up with. Nuclear technology, even the 14 evening news, there is just so much happening we can't keep up 15 with it.
16 The people that live in this area have genuine 17 concerns about what is happening in Seabrook. It is a 18 beautiful area. If you have never been there, I strongly urge 19 you go there, tour the area by land, tour the area by sea. I'm 20 a part time commercial fisherman. It is a beautiful sea coast
- 21 area. Unfortunately for New Hampshire, for t .Mn it is a very .
22 small sea coast area.
23 I cannot for the life of me understand why they 24 wanted to jeopardize this small sea coast area with a nuclear 25 power plant. But the fact of the matter is, they did.
l Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202).628-4888 i
8103-125 1 It's hard for me to put everything together, I,have 2 such strong feelings about the Constitution, that I am trying i
3 to express to you, I'm having a difficult time.
4 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Larmand, if you would like to put 1
5 your thoughts down in writing and send them in, I assure you I a 6 that we will remember who you are and your appearance here, and 7 read them.
8 MR. LARMAND: Okay. But I would like to make one 9 thing plain and simple, then. The constitutional boils down to 10 that this is a land of the people, by the people, and for the 11 people. Now, I have a badge here that I wear every day, and I 12 wear it very proudly. It plainly says -- " People Yes, Seabrook 13 No." And the people say: "Seabrook No." That says it all, I 14 guess.
, 15 Thank you for listening.
16 JUDGE SMITH: Thank you.
17 (Applause) 18 JUDGE SMITH: Carol Carstarphen.
19 STATEMENT OF CAROL CARSTARPHEN 20 MS. CARSTARPHEN: My name is Carol Carstarphen. I am i
21 a resident of Goffstown, New Hampshire.
22 When I moved to New Hampshire from West Virginia in 23 1978, the Certificate of Site and Facility for the Seabrook j 24 Power Station had been issued already. I would like to tell 25 you a little bit about what I have learned in the time I have Heritage Reporting ' Corporation (202) 628-4888 i
8103-126 1 lived in New Hampshire about that plant and about this process.
2 First of all, it is interesting to be addressing a l
3 panel of Administrative Judges.of the Atomic Safety and 4 Licensing Board of the Nuclear. Regulatory Commission.
5 When this process first started, there was little 6 opposition.to a nuclear power plant. There was some concern ,
7 on the part of individuals and organizations'.that the Seabrook-8 Hampton Marsh was an extremely bad place to put-any large 9 facility, of an industrial nature.
10 What happened over a period of years islthatTthe 11 small number of people who were aware.of the problems 12 associated with an industrial development in:that area grew, 13 first of all, in number, and.second, the scope of their !
i 14 concerns broadened considerably.
15 At first they we,re concerned about bird life and 16 marine fauna in an area adjacent to.what was called The Rocks.
17 During the process of designing the plant, cooling tunnels were 18 planned which would draw from and empty directly into the 19 Seabrook-Hampton Marsh. Fortunately that was avoided through 20 the action of interveners. Otherwise,-we'would now be looking -
21 at a plant which planned to discharge hot water straight into 22 the marsh, ruining, effectively, the productivity of the salt.
l 23 marsh.
24 As.the process grew, not only d d people become more 25 aware of the dangers to the environment,;butlthey became I
Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-127 1 acutely aware of the dangers to themselves. ,
2 During the time when Seabrook has been either'in the 3 planning or construction stages, we have seen,.of course, Three-4 Mile Island and Chernobyl, which have greatly changed our 5 perception of what are the possibilities.of the consequences of
, 6 nuclear power plants.
7 I would like you to consider that the people have had 8 an opportunity to learn'from'this process, just as, hopefully, l 9 you and the other regulators have-had an opportunity to learn.
10 As you are a panel of Judges for'the Atomic Safety 11 and Licensing Board, you must be aware that of the 90 to 100 12 licensed power plants in'this country now, none of them have 13 , ever gone through the process of certificate of site and
( 14' facility or whatever the comparable process'is, to find 15 themselves denied an operating license.
16 Then consider that the Seabrook station' location is 1
17 in one of the worst locations, if not'the worst, from the-18 perspective of environmental sensitivity. 'It always the' case.
19 It still is the case. And now at this stage'when we are-20 finally allowed to bring up the issue.of the evacuation of the 21 population, after having that issue deferred.in hearings for a 4
22 number of years, we find that it is one of the worst if not the 23 worst site on that score, too.
24 On that basis, I would ask you to consider letting _
25 this be the time that you decide to look at these issues and:to Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-128_
1 be willing to decide that when the utility was issued that 2 certificate of site and facility, they were given the right to 3 invest their capital and build a plant, but they were not given 4 the'right at that time to operate it, that the decision.for 5 operation depends in fact on a review of the. issues'before you-6 now and that it is quite possible and. reasonable for.you to let ,
7 this be the time you decide.that a plant at this stage in the 8 process should not be licensed.
9 Thank you 10 (Applause) 11 JUDGE SMITH: Mary'Jensen.
12 STATEMENT OF MARY JENSEN 13 MS. JENSEN: My name is Mary Jensen and I am from 14 Stoddard, New Hampshire. I am not within the ten-mile 15 evacuation zone. But I am within the ten-mile radius of where 16 a nuclear dump may be sited if it is sited in New Hampshire.
17 That leaves me with a lot of concerns.
18 Because I don't want a nuclear dump, and I don't want' 19 a nuclear dump in Seabrook. And 1 that is what I'think Seabrook 20 Station is. .
21 I am not exactly sure that coming up and speaking in 22 front of you is.actually going to do any good.. I have had some 23 good luck in the judicial process so I am hoping thatLthis
~
24 might also help. 1 25 For the last five or six years, I'have been aware of 1
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8103-129 1 nuclear power, and I have been researching it and studying it, 2 and as of yet I have not seen anything that is positive about 3 nuclear power and nuclear energy. I see it as a way to create 4 plutonium to make bombs, and that's about it. It is not cheap, 5 it is not ecologically viable, it is not economically viable,
, 6 as Public Service Company has come to recognize. And I think 7 that if you approve these evacuation zones that my faith in the 8 judicial system will go sharply downhill.
9 I have been here for, I think this is my fourth time 10 coming, and as of yet, I have not heard anyone say anything 11 positive about the evacuation process, and I have also not read 12 anything positive about the construction of Seabrook Station or 13 the management there. And I think the bad things there will
, 14 only get worse over time.
15 I have a friend who has been at the Long Island 16 Nuclear Power Plant recently and also at the smaller research 17 plant in Pennsylvania. And his responsibility was tao try to 18 figure out where some of the pipes and electrical, plumbing and 19 fixtures and things that they have no records for, are located, 20 because they changed plans so many times during construction.
21 And I wonder if the same thing is going to happen at Seabrook 22 in ten years, that they are going to have to send somebody in _
23 to figure out why the plant's construction is wrong or what is 24 different about it than the actual records show.
25 Just listening to him talk about the Long Island Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
t i
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-8103-130L 1 plant and this other: plant has made me feel that the building 2 process and the whole nuclear energy process has not been. J 3 something that is very stable or well thought out or well take ,
4 care of. I'd much rather see us look toward alternative' forms 5 of energy than something that is as unsafe and unstable as 6 this.
7 I think that'just reading over the evacuation' plans 8 and listening to the Hampton Police Officers and the school 9 teachers and the other people who have said that it is.not
~
10 going to work, chat the experts have said that it is not going 11 to work. That is something that I believe and I am hoping that-12 you believe a lot of what.you have heard here.and that you act 13 upon it. .
14 Thank you. Have a' good holiday. -
15 (Applause) 16 JUDGE SMITH: Betsy Janeway, please..
17 Ms. Janeway will be followed by Edward Sheldon, then 18 by Debbie Johnstone.-
19 STATEMENT OF BETSY JANEWAY 20 MS. JANEWAY: Thank'you for giving me an opportunity -
21 to speak. I didn't expect to say anything.
22 But I feel that there are millions who are_not being 23 represented here very well-this evening. I wouldilike.to-say'a 24 word on behalf of the millions of creatures who live in the sea 25 and in the marsh: the ducks, the rats, the scoters[ph), the Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888-
8103-131 1 loons, right down to the little tiny things that we can't,even 2 see without microscopes.
3 Nobody is making any plan for their evacuation.
l 4 They will not hear the sirens. Or, if they do hear the sirens, L
5 they will not understand what they are for. They have been
, 6 there a long, long time. And I would hope that they would be 7 able to be there forever.
8 Thank you.
9 (Applause) 10 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Sheldon. j 11 STATEMENT OF EDWARD SHELDON !
l 12 MR. SHELDON: Hi. How you doing tonight?
1 13 VOICE: Very nicely.
t 14 MR. SHELDON: Good.
, 15 I'm sort of with Mary there on what she had said. I 16 don't have any faith in,what you're going to do or what the 17 Nuclear Regulatory Commission is going to do. 'I wrote you off-
~
18 a long time ago.
19 So, with that, I'd like to say that I'm going to do 20 everything that I can. I'm a latecomer in trying to-stop.this 1
21 plant from coming on line. But I'd like to tell thel people' i 22 from the sea coast that I'm going to do everything.that I can 23 to keep it from coming on line. l
. 'l 24 I'd like to make an. announcement, too. Seeing I-just 25 got involved with this about a year ago 'that it,really became
, 'I Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888 ;
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8103-132 1 a concern over nuclear weapons, and I found out the connection 2 between nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants. I got 3 involved in trying to stop nuclear testing.
4 On March lith through 20th there is going to be a 5 major demonstration at the Nevada Test Site. And if people 6 would like to come, they can contact me. It's going to be a e
7 peaceful demonstration, and we hope to stop nuclear testing, 8 both there and in the Soviet Union, to have a moratorium on -
9 nuclear testing.
10 Thank you.
11 (Applause) 12 JUDGE SMITH: Mr. Sheldon? Mr. Sheldon? Mr.
Il Sh'eldon?
14 VOICE: I just wanted to know where he was from.
15 JUDGE SMITH: Well. Debbie Johnstone.
16 STATEMENT OF DEBBIE JOHNSTONE 17 MS. JOHNSTONE: It's wild. You come here to listen 18 and end up standing up here addressing you gentlemen.
19 My name is Debble Johnstone, and I live.in Salisbury, 20 Massachusetts. ,
21 JUDGE SMITH: Let me ask you,about that. The news 22 release that we issued -- and I'm asking you because the 23 opportunity came up -- made it clear that we were giving a 24 priority to those who lived in the EPZ who had not had an 25 opportunity to speak before because we were concerned that they ,
J Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-133 l 1 were the most affected and should have, more than others,,have 2 an opportunity to speak. But it seems like many people got the 3 impression that no one else would be permitted to speak. Is 4 that the impression you got?
5 MS. JOHNSTONE: Yes. My husband got a letter, and
, 6 the letter said that you had to bring the envelope with your 7 name on it.
I 8 JUDGE SMITH: I'm not talking about that. I'm l 9 talking about the news accounts. People apparently got the
! )
10 impression that there would be no opportunity, and we couldn't 1
1 11 guarantee an opportunity, but that there was an actual 12 exclusion for others speaking. And that was not our intention. l l
1,3 MS. JOHNSTONE: That was the impression I got. It f 14 may not he been your intention, yes.
l 15 I live in Salisbury, Massachusetts, and I am just i l
16 getting involved in town politics, and in the town government. 1 17 And I am finding that it is as important what people believe 1
18 about an issue, an article, a plan, as it is what the. issue 19 really is. Because that is how we are going to respond and 20 that is how we are going to vote.
21 After many town meetings, the vote keeps coming back 22 the same. We don't have faith in the plan. We hope very much that you will come to our communities in person, put on your 23 24 Nikes and your tee shirts and come down and enjoy some sea 25 ~
coast hospitality, and talk to us, individually, at random, in Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-13.4 1 our coffee shops and on our streets,.and find out for.
2 yourselves how we.are really going to respond.
3 Because it has always been my experience that if I 4 want a. job done right, I am. going to do it myself. .I'm a hard 5 worker. I am a conscientious person. But I am very practical 6 in terms of.what can be expected from other people, and the f
7 level of what they are going to deliver:as' compared to what 8 they say they are going to. deliver.- And11 know you know what' '
l 9 I'm talking'about.
l 10 So if the sirens.went off, I;would use my-judgment, 11 first and always, and.that is the only thingfI would depend on 12 to safeguard me and myLfamily.
l 13 And again, I really hope you will come to1ouritowns-14 and complete your education on-the streets and see how we are l
15 really going to respond and.what.we rea14y feel.
16 Thank you very much, gentlemen.
17 JUDGE-SMITH: Thank you.
18 (Applause) 19 JUDGE SMITH: I want to thank you for the invitation, l
l 20 too. But I want to'tell'you that if I put on my Nikes and. tee- ,
i 21 shirt, I will not be doing much for the environment of your-22 town.
23 (Laughter) 24 JUDGE' SMITH: Mich'elle Petillo, please.
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8103-135 1 STATEMENT OF MICHELLE PETILLO
- l l 2 MS. PETILLO: 'Hi. My name is Michelle Petillo..and I 3 live in Hampton, New Hampshire. .I have lived in'Hampton, New.
4 Hampshire all my life.
5 I am a student at.Phillips Exeter Academy. I'am a.
, 6 Senior. And I am kind of upset, because right now we are.on 7 Christmas break and I know a lot of my peers would have wanted 8 to be here, to testify, and they can't,-because they go home 9 for the holidays. So I guess I am up here just for their. sake.-
10 I am a very idealistic person. I think I have a 11 right to be that way, since I am so young, and I haven't gone 12 out and gotten a career for myself.yet. But in thinking;about?
13 Seabrook and nuclear power, I think everybody is. idealistic in 14 their own way.
15 I think the people that planned Seabrook were 16 idealistic in hoping that it could have a good energy. source 17 for the people in this community.
18 However, I don't think the people in this community 19 think that Seabrook is a good source of energy. In. fact, I 20 think they think that it is.a good source of dying..
21 (Applause). .
I 22 MS. PETILLO:- I would also like to say.that I know 23 that there are a lot of problemsnin the evacuation plans. I:
l 24 know that is what this is about. I-know thatLthe teachers from.
25 Phillips Exeter have gotten up.here and have-discussed with you o
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1 the fact that they feel in their hearts that they'would not be 2 able to save all of the students at Phillips. They would take 3' their families and go, and run. I think that is,a natural 4 human instinct, to run from danger.
5 I don't'think,you can expect these people to just sit 6 back and to listen to whatever you want to tell them, because ,.
7 .this is their life. This is where they have made thsir homes.
- 8. I think that if you want to give the people something that is 9 going to make their lives better -- I think that;is what the 10 whole intent of nuclear power is.-- you have to make it so;that 11 the people really want it. I don't think the people.want it. .
12 At school,-at school we sit in classrooms and we. talk 13 all the time about how life should be, and what ye should'do to 14 change this world and to make it a better place. But when.I 15 come outside of the classroom and I see these types of things 16 going on and I see places-like Soabrook being put into, or 1
17 possibly being put into action and starting to work, I can't c
18 put faith in that any more, because I feel that Seabrook'is not 19 something that is idealistic any more. I think it has turned 20 into a fallacy and I don't believe in it. .
21 I used to. I used to feel that maybe that.was a' good-22 alternative to our-natural resources, which seem to be falling-23 through for us. But I don't believe that any more,'and I think.
l 24 part of the reason for that.is the fact that the evacuation 25 plan won't work,-and the. fact.that we can't keep on-kidding Heritage Reporting' Corporation I (202) 628-4888 i
8103-137 1 ourselves that it will. ,
2 I thank you for letting me_ speak.
3 (Applause) 4 5
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8103-138
" - 6 1 JUDGE SMITH: Joel Potter. ,
2 STATEMENT OF JOEL POTTER 3 MR. POTTER: Good evening. My name is Joel Potter.
4 I am resident of Concord, New Hampshire. I have taken groups 5 of high school students to-Seabrook for a number of years in 6 terms of visiting the educational facility. We have had ,
7 visitors from Seabrook come to our school. We've had Will 8 Brown come to our school, discussing some of the pros and' cons' 9 of the whole issue. I hear the same story year afterfyear- .
10 I feel that there are a number of issues that 11 interplay that need to be considered. One of the things that 12 bothers me personally when my students ask me how I feel about 13 it is the lifetime of a facility such as this, a relatively 14 short period of roughly 40 years. What happens after the 40 15 years? ,
16 Perhaps renewal, perhaps dismissal. What do.we do 17 with the site after 40 years, if it is dismissed?
18 Your Honor, one other major consideration has to'do 19 with transportation of materials to and from the plant. Do-we.
20 have safe channels for transporting materials? I don't think .
21 so.
22 We have already heard a great deal about evacuation.
23 I'm not going to touch on that.
24 One of the things that I have received when I have 25 taken groups over there are little pellets saying that this is' i
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l 8103-139 1 the way the nuclear waste is going to be disposed of in a, safe 2 form.
3 I can't see how that is going to take care of the 4 situation. I don't think the technology is there yet. How can 5 we plan such a facility when we haven't addressed the very
, 6 basic consideration to what do we do with the waste products.
I 7 There are alternatives. We have had the possibility, 8 I think the state is looking into for tremendous source of 9 energy from the hydro facility in Canada and Quebec, and I 10 think one of the best alternatives doesn't cost anything is 11 increase in conservation of people, more concern about the 12 energy that we waste.
, 13 My final consideration is really the heritage that I 14 feel I want to leave to my own children and to our students 15 where I reach. I don't want to leave the potential of 16 radioactivity in our environment to affect our biological 17 aspects of the discharge process over at the plant, nor do I 18 want to think about the possibilities of a much more
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19 catastrophic problem should we have a technical breakdown as
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l 20 we've seen in other places.
21 I cherish New Hampshire too much to leave them this 22 legacy.
23 Thank you.
24 (Applause) 25 JUDGE SMITH: Does anybody else wish to be heard?
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8103-140 1 Yes. ,
1 2 STATEMENT OF JOE GOLDEN 3 MR. GOLDEN: Good evening, gentlemen. My name is Joe-4 Golden. I am residence of Meredith, New' Hampshire, and I'm a 5 student at;the University;of New Hampshire.
6 I'm not sure if this is the right place for a 7 question or not.
8 JUDGE SMITH: We will try to answer questions given 9 time, not on the issues, but on the procedure, on the legal 10 procedure that we follow.
11 MR. GOLDEN: Thank-you. This is a procedural 12 question.
13 It's a question regarding the powers of the-federal I. 14 government versus state government.
15 If you gentlemen approve actions'to:let Seabrook go.
16 on line, what power do the States of New-Hampshire and 17 Massachusetts have;to say against that? What can_they do if 18 the people speak up to stop what you have said will be done?
19 JUDGE SMITH: Well, generally speaking, there are 20 exceptions to this, but generally the answerito your question- ,
21 is that Congress early on decided that. nuclear power, 22 commercial nuclear power would be in the hands of the federal 23 government, and that the licensing of nuclear power ~ plants 24 would be a federal operation, a federal responsibility.
25 The states can and do make their wishes and their.
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8103-141 1 positions known in these proceedings. After the Nuclear 2 Regulatory Commission issues its final decision, that's after 3 we make our, it is appealed and ends up of being the final 4 decision of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, it goes to the 5 courts. It begins with the United States Courts of Appeals,
, 6 either in the area that a plant is, or in the D.C. Circuit, and 7 then goes to the Supreme Court.
8 MR. GOLDEN: If the State had a disagreement with 9 you, you are saying it would go into the courts?
10 JUDGE SMITH: That's right.
11 MR. GOLDEN: Thank you very much.
12 JUDGE SMITH: Anything further this evening?
13 Yes.
14 STATEMENT OF WILLIAM GILLIGAN 15 MR. GILLIGAN: My name is William Gilligan. I am a 16 resident of Hampton. I grew up on the beaches of Hampton as a
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17 child, and in the last dozen or so years I have also lived in j 18 Hampton.
l 19 It has been my belief ever since then nuclear plant 20 was sited in Seabrook that evacuation was impossible, and it 21 has recently been my opinion that the evacuation plans are 22 eventually going to be approved.
23 The reason I had felt that was is that it is my 24 opinion that in too many ways too many people feel that the -
25 large investment that has already made in Seabrook is going to Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
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8103-142 j 1 weigh much more heavily than it should in the final analysis.
2 That may be a cynical point of view. I would like to 3 think that in your final analysis you treat these evacuation 4 plans and a final decision on these evacuation plans as if the 5 decision was to say to the Applicant, this is a bad place. You 6 should find a different place to put it.
7 Thank you very much.
8 (Applause) '
9 JUDGE SMITH: Is Fred Anderson still here?
10 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, Judge.
11 JUDGE SMITH: Did you wish to pose a question?
12 MR. ANDERSON: A procedural question.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Yes, would you ask it,,please?
l 14 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, Judge. My name is Fred Anderson.
15 I'm from South Hampton.
16 Our question was on really not this evening's 17 testimony, but rather, the opportunity you gave to public 18 officials, I believe on the first day of the hearing, to 19 testify, or to give limited appearances or however it was 20 structured. .
21 I was watching that day on TV. My perception was 22 that no invitation had been given to those people ahead of 23 time, so people from South Hampton, or Hampton or Exeter --
24 JUDGE SMITH: No, that's not true.
25 MR. ANDERSON: -- or Portsmouth or whatever.
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8103-143 1 JUDGE SMITH: No, there was advance notice on that, 2 as much as we could give.
3 MR. ANDERSON: and to selectmen, or to civil defense 4 officials or --
5 JUDGE SMITH: Yes, yes.
6 MR. ANDERSON: To all officials.
7 JUDGE SMITH: We did everything we could do. We did 8 several things.
9 One is that we issued a memorandum in this proceeding 10 which was served upon'everybody who has ever filed a notice in i
11 the case, that they would be given an opportunity to send a ]
I 12 representative.
13 We had our NRC Public Affairs Department contact j 14 local newspapers, said please copy. We did virtually 15 everything we could think of.
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16 MR. ANDERSON: It would just be my suggestion,=on the l
17 basis of what I could see that day, a number of. people that in 18 fact did not attend. As you know, very few authentic -- l 19 JUDGE SMITH: They kept dribbling in. ]
. 20 MR. ANDERSON: -- local public officials -- i 21 JUDGE SMITH: There were some ringers in there.-
22 MR. ANDERSON: There were a few -- right, there were l 23 a very few real public officials.
24 My feeling is that you should make that opportunity 25 available some time in January, assume you. bring the' hearings !
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8103-144 1 back here, and the reason I suggest that you do that again is 2 because I know for a fact that the selectmen in most of the 3 towns within the EPZ oppose the licensing of Seabrook. The 4 civil defense directors within the EPZ on a local basis, again 5 not the state, oppose the licensing.
6 JUDGE SMITH: Well, you can be assured we drew no 7 inference as to their support of opposition.
8 MR. ANDERSON: Oh, I understanding that, but I think 9 you would see if you gave them -- if you gave them the 10 opportunity, really gave them the opportunity, I think you 11 would see what they feel and why they. feel it, and I think it 12 would be worthwhile for you to have that on the record.
13 JUDGE SMITH:. All right, I appreciate the --
14 MR. ANDERSON: And I don't think that was done 15 effectively the first day, and I don't think notice was given.
16 Just as this evening, apparently for those 110 people, notice 17 was not effectively given. Only about 10 of those people 18 showed up. And I want --
19 JUDGE SMITH: There was a clear letter delivered to 20 them in the United State Mail. i 21 MR. ANDERSON: I wanted to suggest that I am going to 22 do a study of those who were invited. I'm going to try to find 23 out why they didn't attend, and I will get the results of that
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8103-145 1 MR. ANDERSON: And you had-questioned-another ,
2 witness as to perhaps what the-general impression was, and if 3 you do arithmetic, and if the statement had said 100 people in 4 seven hours at five minutes a piece. That works out to-84 5 people maximum that can testify in seven hours.
, 6 My assumption was, well, I'll take the chance.
7 Perhaps I can give a statement. And I think most of the other f
8 people who are here probably felt they wouldn't be able to give 9 a statement and --
10 JUDGE SMITH: That's exactly.why you all were 11 invited, because we knew there would be a falloff, and we 12 invited far more than could have been heard, because we knew 13 there would be a fallout.
14 But you have to remember, those people.who were 15 invited, we selected those who are-the most immediately. .
16 affected by the issues that we are hearing.
17 MR. ANDERSON: ButLI think the -- ,
18 JUDGE SMITH: We made every effort'that'we could to 19 identify who they were, where they lived and get a letter to n 20 them. We offered them an opportunity to come here, give a
- 21 priority statement, have a reserved seat, tell us if-they had a' 22 handicap or another reason why they could not come 1Ater. I 23 don't know what more we could have'done.
24 MR. ANDERSON: And I'm not sure what happened to this 25 procedure, but I know I had asked for a limited appearance, and Heritage-Reporting' Corporation (202)-628-4888
8103 .146 i
1 I never heard a thing, and I live within seven miles of the 2 plant, and I would imagine that there are-a lot of people that 3 have written to the NRC that, again, never had an invitation.
4 And I just don't know what happened to the. procedure but I -- 3 5 JUDGE SMITH: I can tell you that the United. States 6 Post Office in Concord here, for example, did a very (
7 resourceful job of gathering vague letters address to generally 9
8 to me and they would gather them all up, and send them in their 9 own envelope.
10 Although there were quite a few of them, some of them 11 had very vague addresses, but the United States-Post Office 12 tried to do a good job, and the results were that there were.
13 lots of them that came.
14 I can't say that I did not overlook a letter. YouL 15 know, there were lots of them, but we --'all three of us spent 16 quite a few hours, and we're very busy, we're very busy on the 17 factual issues. We spent quite a few hours looking over and 18 over again, trying to identify people who were immediately 19 affected by this particular. hearing that we're having now, and 20 we got a letter out to them. <
21 MR. ANDERSON: Judge, I just suggest that the ' fact' A
22 that the hearing is in Concord, an hour away from the seacoast, 23 and a week before Christmas, makes it very, very difficult --
'24 JUDGE SMITH: I know.
25 MR. ANDERSON: -- for the people directly affected in Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
8103-147 1 trying to participate.
2 JUDGE SMITH: In any event --
3 MR. ANDERSON: And the average person --
4 JUDGE SMITH: We appreciate your suggestion --
5 MR. ANDERSON: The average person would have assumed
- 6 that there would be no opportunity for that person to come and 7 testify.
8 JUDGE SMITH: I don't know.
9 MR. ANDERSON: So only those 100 people selected 10 thought they had a chance.
11 JUDGE SMITH: Well, that's fine. We got your point.
12 MR. ANDERSON: That was my assumptions. Thank you.
13 JUDGE SMITH: Anything further this evening?
14 (Applause.)
15 JUDGE SMITH: Ladies and gentlemen, now is your 16 chance. Does anybody want to speak who hasn't?
17 Yes, ma'am.
18 (Speaker from audience speaks off microphone.)
19 JUDGE SMITH: I'm afraid that what you are saying has
> 20 not gone on to the record. If you want to put'it on the 21 record, you have to -- .
22 (Speaker from audience continues.)
23 JUDGE SMITH: That's all right. All right.
24 (Speaker from audience continues.)
25 JUDGE SMITH: We issue directly to the wire services Heritage ReportingICerporation (202) 628-4888
8103-148 I and I don't do it myself personally -- in any event, in any 1
2 event, I do see that --
3 (Speaker from audience continues.) q 4 JUDGE SMITH: Right, but the fact is that some people 5 did figure it out, did come here and they were given the !
6 opportunity, and I want to.say that we understand that those of
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7 you who have come here this evening have very strong feelings 8 on this issue, the issues we're. hearing, and we could tell it 9 from your remarks. No question about it.
10 And, yet, with only just a minor few exceptions each' 11 of you were civil, hospitable and reasonable, and we have 12 appreciated it very much. I mean,'we have appreciated it, and-13 Ihopethatyouhaveappreciateddheopportunity.
14 Is there anybody else who wants to talk?
15 (Speaker from audience. continues.)
16 JUDGE SMITH: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am, but you 17 yourself have had the opportunity, and others will be given.the 18 opportunity if the opportunity comes up.
19 I don't think that you have to worry about others. >
20 You worry about yourself, and we will listen to you. We have- 4 21 given you all the opportunity to speak.. Let others worry _about 22 them. There are others who are representing'them, okay?
23 We appreciate your comments and we will. adjourn for 24 this evening.
25 (Whereupon, at 8:59 p.m. the hearing was recessed, to Heritage Reporting' Corporation (202) 628-4888
1 f 8103-149 1 resume at 9:00 a.m., Thursday, December 17, 1987.)
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1 CERTIFICATE 2-3 This is to certify that the attsched proceedings before the 4 United States Nuclear Regul w Jy Commission in the matter of:
5 Name: Public Service Csg iny of New Hampshire, et al.
(Seabrook Station, Jnits 1 and 2) 6 Limited Appearances 7 Docket Numbers 50-443-OL and 50-444-OL J
8 Place: Concord, New Hampshire 9 Date: December 16, 1987 10 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original 11 transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear 12 Regulatory Commission taken stenographically by_me and, 13 thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction 14 of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a-15 true and accurate re rd of (hef egoing@oceedings.
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16 /S/ e M 17 (Signature typed): Kent Andrews 18 Official Reporter 19 Heritage Reporting Corporation 20 21 22 ,
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