ML102380170
| ML102380170 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee File:NorthStar Vermont Yankee icon.png |
| Issue date: | 09/08/2010 |
| From: | Quay T Division of Policy and Rulemaking |
| To: | Mulligan M - No Known Affiliation |
| pickett , NRR/DORL, 415-1364 | |
| Shared Package | |
| ml102380122 | List: |
| References | |
| G20100388, OEDO-2010-0497 | |
| Download: ML102380170 (30) | |
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION WASHINGTON, D.C. 20555-0001
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- i' Mr. Michael Mulligan P.O. Box 161 Hinsdale, NH 03451
Dear Mr. Mulligan:
In an email dated June 15, 2010, addressed to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's (NRC's)
Allegation Desk, you submitted a petition pursuant to Title 10 of the Code of Federal Regulations (10 CFR), Section 2.206, "Requests for action under this subpart," asking that the NRC take enforcement action by ordering the immediate shutdown of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station (Vermont Yankee). Your petition has been referred to the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation's Petition Review Board (PRB) for action. The NRC has made your petition publicly available in the Agencywide Documents Access and Management System (ADAMS) under Accession No. ML101670176.
Your petition included a number of photographs of the Vernon Hydroelectric Station (VHS) switchyard. The VHS provides a backup 4 kV AC power source for Vermont Yankee. This power source is provided through an underground cable stretching from the VHS switchyard to the Vermont Yankee facility. At the Vermont Yankee switchyard, the 13.2 kV VHS power source ties into the site via a transformer where the power source is stepped down to 4 kV.
This transformer is referred to as the Vernon Tie. This power source is used for 1) the alternate AC power source for station blackout (SBO) conditions, 2) fire pumps used for fire protection pursuant to 10 CFR, Part 50, Appendix R, and 3) a back-up power source for remote shutdown panels at Vermont Yankee if the control room becomes uninhabitable.
The structures in the photographs include components supporting the AC power source leading to Vermont Yankee as well as the local distribution grid to Vernon, Vermont. The photographs focus on rusted transmission towers and a surface hole of unknown depth adjacent to a stanchion. You expressed a safety concern regarding the overall material condition of the VHS switchyard. In your petition, you indicated that the photographs, by themselves, provide a convincing argument that the VHS power source to the Vermont Yankee station is unreliable and should not be used as a backup power source.
On June 21, 2010, the PRB met and considered your request for the NRC to order the immediate shutdown of Vermont Yankee. The PRB did not identify any immediate safety concerns. Therefore, the PRB denied your request. You were informed of the PRB's decision not to order the immediate shutdown of Vermont Yankee on June 25, 2010.
On June 29, 2010, a teleconference was held between you and the PRB in which you provided further explanation and support for your petition. A transcript of that phone call, which supplements your petition, has been provided to you and is publicly available (ADAMS Accession No. ML101930382).
M. MUlligan -2 On July 13, 2010, the PRB met to discuss your petition concerning the adequacy of the Vernon Tie to Vermont Yankee and make its initial recommendation in accordance with Management Directive 8.11 (ADAMS Accession No. ML041770328). The initial recommendation of the PRB was that the issues raised in your petition have already been reviewed, evaluated, and resolved by the NRC. Therefore, your petition meets the criteria for rejection. More specifically, the PRB made the following findings regarding the requests made in your petition:
- 1. Order the Immediate Shutdown of Vermont Yankee.
The PRB met and concluded that there was no immediate safety issue justifying the immediate shutdown of the Vermont Yankee facility.
- 2. An independent investigation, outside of NRC and EntergYl to determine whether fraud and/or falsification of issues were involved in the license renewal efforts for Vermont Yankee.
You are requested to refer to the following NRC public web site which provides key correspondence regarding Vermont Yankee:
http://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/reactor/vv/key-correspondence.html By letter dated March 1, 2010 (ADAMS Accession No. ML100570237), the NRC issued a Demand for Information regarding the veracity of statements made by Entergy officials to the state of Vermont regarding underground piping at Vermont Yankee. In the licensee's response dated March 31, 2010 (ADAMS Accession No. ML100910420), they reference an independent investigation performed as part of the state regulatory proceeding before the Vermont Public Service Board (VPSB) related to the issuance of a Certificate of Public Good by the VPSB for the continued operation of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station after 2012. The NRC has not identified any instances in which Entergy staff or officials have provided incomplete or inaccurate information to the NRC (ADAMS Accession No.
- 3. An investigation on what the petitioner describes as a subtle shift from reliance on diesel generators to the VHS by the Vermont Yankee licensee without the appropriate quality of a nuclear grade electrical power supply.
During the SBO review of Vermont Yankee, the NRC staff concluded that the VHS power supply provides an acceptable alternate AC power source. Regulatory Guide 1.155 does not require that the alternate AC source for SBO conditions possess the same quality standards as the emergency onsite AC sources. The NRC staff has previously reviewed, evaluated, and resolved the reliance that the Vermont Yankee licensee has on the VHS power supply for SBO conditions (ADAMS Accession No. ML060050024).
Regarding 10 CFR Appendix R: In the event that the control room had to be evacuated (Le.,
fire) and operators had to shut down the plant from an alternate shutdown panel, the operators would use the VHS power supply before relying on the onsite diesel generators.
The VHS would provide an immediate source of power. Operators would not need to wait for onsite diesel generator startup and loading. This approach is preferable in that it would
M. Mulligan -3 minimize the time necessary to place the plant in a cold shutdown condition. Operators would still have the onsite emergency diesel generators as a backup if needed.
- 4. An inspection by the NRC or other responsible organization of the VHS dam and sWitchyard.
The VHS switchyard, and more specifically the components necessary to support the Vernon Tie, have been inspected and examined separately by both Region 1 and NRR personnel. The VHS switchyard was reviewed, inspected, and found acceptable in the staff's safety evaluation dated March 30, 2007 (ADAMS Accession No. ML070870378),
supporting license renewal for Vermont Yankee.
By email dated July 23, 2010, you were informed of the PRB's initial recommendation and provided with a detailed discussion that included the basis of our findings. By email dated August 2, 2010, you responded to the PRB's initial recommendation and requested that your response be made part of the record. Accordingly, your email supplements your original petition and has been made publicly available (ADAMS Accession No. ML102210068).
On August 26, 2010, a second teleconference was held with you and the PRB in which you provided further explanation and support for your petition. The transcript of that phone call, which supplements your petition, is enclosed and is publicly available (ADAMS Accession No.
ML102440275). During that call, you requested that your email, sent earlier that day that included excerpts on papers discussing the cultural theory of risk and identity-protection cognition, be made part of the record. Accordingly, your email supplements your original petition and has been made publicly available (ADAMS Accession No. ML102380520).
In summary, the PRB concludes that the NRC staff has extensively reviewed the power supply provided by the VHS and the reliance placed on this power supply by the Vermont Yankee facility. The PRB's final recommendation is to reject this petition for review as the issues you raise have already been reviewed, evaluated, and resolved by the NRC.
Thank you for your interest in these matters.
Sincerely, Theodore R. Quay, Deputy Director Division of Policy and Rulemaking Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation Docket No. 50-271
Enclosure:
Transcript of August 26,2010, Conference Call cc w/encl: Distribution via Listserv
DISTRIBUTION: G20100388/EDATS:OEDO-201 0-0497 PUBLIC LPL 1-1 RlF RidsNrrDorl RidsNrrDorlLpl1-1 RidsNrrPMVermontYankee RidsNrrLASLittle RidsNrrMailCenter RidsNrrOd RidsNrrAdes RidNrrAdro TQuay, DPR RidsOGCRp Resource RidsEDOMailCenter RidsOeMailCenter RidsOiMailCenter RidsOpaMaii RidsRgn1 MailCenter RidsOcaMailCenter KGreen TMensah DJackson,RI RidsNrrDeEeeb RidsNrrWpcMail RidsNrrDlrRasb DNguyen, DLR KMiller, EEEB DSpindler, R1 DDodson, R1 RidsNrrPmCalvertCliffs Package: ML102380122 Incoming: ML101670176 Response: ML102380170 Petitioner's Email of 8/2/10: ML102210068 Petitioner's Email of 8/26/10 ML102380520 Transcript of 6/29/10: ML101930382 Transcript of 8/26/10: ML102440275
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DATE I'll \ 1 10 08/31 1 10 08/30/10 08/30/10 OFFICE LPL1-1IBC RI/DRP/PB5/BC* 12.206 Coord ~ DPRIDD NAME NSalgado /Jj.J DJackson* ITMensat0'1~ \ TQuay i F**\.\
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Official Record Copy
Official Transcript of Preceedlngs NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
2.206 Petition Review Board RE Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Thuffiday,August26,2010 Work Order No.: NRC-403 Pages 1-25 Transcript edited by Douglas Pickett, NRC NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 Enclosure
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +
4 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 5 CONFERENCE CALL 6 RE 7 VERMONT YANKEE NUCLEAR POWER STATION 8 + + + + +
9 THURSDAY 1 AUGUST 26, 2010 11 + + + + +
12 The conference call was held, Ted Quay, 13 Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, presiding.
14 15 PETITIONER: MICHAEL MULLIGAN 16 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
17 TED QUAY, Deputy Director, Division of Policy and 18 Rulemaking, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation 19 DOUGLAS V. PICKETT, Petition Manager 2 DOUGLAS DODSON, Region I, Division of Reactor Projects 21 TANYA MENSAH, Petition Coordinator, NRR 22 KENN MILLER, NRR, Electrical Engineering Branch 23 DUC NGUYEN, NRR, Aging Management of Structures 24 Electrical and Systems Branch 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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2 1 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS: (cont.)
2 NANCY SALGADO, NRR, Chief, Plant Licensing Branch 1-1 3 OTHER NRC PERSONNEL PRESENT:
4 JAMES KIM, Project Manager, Division of Operating 5 Reactor Licensing 6 ALICIA CALERO, General Engineer, Division of Policy 7 and Ru1emaking 8 HEATHER JONES, NRC Region I, Vermont Yankee 9 Resident Inspector 10 11 ALSO PRESENT:
12 JIM DeVINCENTIS, Licensing Manager, Entergy 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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3 1 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 2 Welcome and Introductions 4 3 Doug Picket, Petition Manager 4 PRB Chairman's Introduction 8 5 Ted Quay, Chairman 6 Petitioner's Presentation 13 7 Michael Mulligan, Petitioner 8 PRB Chairman's Closing Remarks 24 9 Ted Quay, Chairman 1
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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4 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:04 a.m.
3 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: Thanks, everybody, 4 for attending this meeting.
5 My name is Doug Pickett.
6 We are here today to allow the Petitioner, 7 Mr. Michael Mulligan, his second opportunity to 8 address the Petition Review Board, who we'll refer to 9 as the PRB regarding hi s 2. 206 pet i t i on, dated June 10 15, 2010, on the adequacy of the Vernon Hydroelectric 11 Station Tie-In to the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power 12 Station located in Vernon, Vermont.
13 I am the Petition Manager for the 14 petition.
15 The PRB Chairman is Ted Quay.
16 As part of the PRB's review of this 17 petition, Mr. Mulligan has requested this opportunity 18 to address the PRB.
19 This meeting is scheduled to conclude by 20 approximately 11:00 a.m. The meeting is being 21 recorded by the NRC Operations Center and will be 22 transcribed by a court reporter. The transcript will 23 become a supplement to the petition. The transcript 24 will also be made publicly available.
25 I'd like to open this meeting with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 introductions. As we go around the room, please be 2 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and 3 the office that you work for wi thin the NRC for the 4 record.
5 I'll start off. I'm Doug Pickett. I'm 6 from NRC. I'm the Petition Manager for the petition.
7 BOARD MEMBER SALGADO: Nancy Salgado. I'm 8 the Branch Chief from Division of Operator and Reactor 9 Licensing.
10 BOARD MEMBER KIM: James Kim, Project 11 Manager from the Division of Operating and Reactor 12 Licensing, NRR.
13 COURT REPORTER: Folks, I'm sorry, but 14 this is the Court Reporter. The folks on the staff 15 who I think are on a speakerphone are not making it 16 onto the record.
17 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: This is Doug 18 Pickett.
19 I can send you an email with everybody's 20 name on it so we have if you want to go over it 21 again.
22 BOARD MEMBER MILLER: On the line is Kenn 23 Miller, NRR, Electrical Engineering Branch.
24 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. You got Ted Quay, 25 the PRB Chairman in Headquarters, NRR.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: And from Region I.
2 BOARD MEMBER DODSON: Doug Dodson, Region 3 1, Project Engineer.
4 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: The Residence 5 Office.
6 BOARD MEMBER JONES: Heather Jones.
7 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: And the licensee?
8 MR. DeVINCENTIS: Jim DeVincentis.
9 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: And Mr. Mulligan.
10 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Yes. This is Mike 11 Mulligan. I'm the petitioner.
12 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: And is there anyone 13 who has not introduced themselves on the phone. Okay.
14 Then we'll move on.
15 We've completed our introductions and 16 we've got the representative from the licensee on the 17 phone. And Mr. Mulligan has introduced himself. And 18 no one else.
19 I'd like to emphasize that we need to 20 speak clearly and loudly to make sure that the Court 21 Reporter can accurately transcribe this meeting. If 22 you do have something that you would like to say I 23 please state your name for the record.
24 For those dialing into the meeting, please 25 remember to mute your phones to minimize any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 2 a mute button, this can be done by pressing the key 3 star 6. To unmute, you press star 6 again.
4 At this time I'll turn it over to the PRE 5 Chairman, Ted Quay.
6 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Welcome to this meeting 7 regarding the 2.206 petition submi t ted by Mr.
8 Mulligan.
9 I'd like to first share some background 10 information on our process.
11 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 12 Federal Regulations describes the petition process; 13 the primary mechanism for the public to request 14 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
15 This process permits anyone to petition the NRC to 16 take enforcement-type action related to NRC licensees 17 or licensed activities. Depending on the results of 18 its evaluation, the NRC could modify, suspend or 19 revoke an NRC-issued license or take any other 20 appropriate enforcement action to resolve a problem.
21 The NRC's staff's guidance for the 22 disposition of 2.206 petition requests in its 23 Management Directive 8.11 which is publicly available.
24 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 25 the peti tioner his second opportuni ty to provide any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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8 1 additional explanation or support of the petition 2 before the Petition Review Board makes its final 3 recommendation on whether or not to accept this 4 petition for review.
5 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 6 an opportunity for the petition to question or examine 7 the PRB on the merits or the issues presented in the 8 petition request.
9 No decisions regarding the merits of this 10 petition will be made at this meeting, 11 Following the meeting, the Petition Review 12 Board will conduct its internal deliberations. The 13 outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 14 with the petitioner, 15 The Petition Review Board typically 16 consists of a Chairman, usually a manager at the 17 senior executive service level at the NRC. It has a 18 Petition Manager and a PRB Coordinator. Other members 19 of the Board are determined by the NRC staff based on 20 the content of the information in the petition 21 request.
22 At this time, I would like to introduce 23 the Board.
24 I am Ted Quay, the Peti tion Review Board 25 Chairman.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
9 1 Doug Pickett is the Petition Manager for 2 the petition under discussion today.
3 Tanya Mensah is the office's PRB 4 Coordinator.
5 Our technical staff includes:
6 Duc Nguyen from the Office of Nuclear 7 Reactor Regulations' Aging Management of Structures, 8 Electrical, and Systems Branch; 9 Kenn Miller from the Office of Nuclear 10 Reactor Regulation's Electrical Engineering Branch; 11 Nancy Salgado from the Office of Nuclear 12 Reactor Regulation's Plant Licensing Branch 1-1, and; 13 Doug Dodson from NRC's Region I, Division 14 of Reactor Projects.
1 As described in our process, the NRC staff 16 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 17 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 18 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 19 petitioner's requests for review under the 2.206 20 process.
21 I would like to summarize the scope of the 22 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 23 date.
24 On June 15, 2010, Mr. Mulligan submitted 25 to the NRC a petition, under 10 CFR 2.206 regarding NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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10 1 the Vernon Hydroelectric Station's power supply to the 2 Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station.
3 In this petition request, Mr. Mulligan 4 requested the following:
5 (1) The immediate shutdown of the Vermont 6 Yankee facility; 7 (2) An independent investigation, outside 8 of NRC and Entergy, to determine whether fraud and/or 9 falsification of issues were involved in the license 10 renewal efforts for Vermont Yankee; 11 (3) An investigation on what the petition 12 describes as a subtle shift from reliance on diesel 13 generators to the Vernon Hydroelectric Station by the 14 Vermont Yankee licensee without the appropriate 15 quali ty of a nuclear grade electrical power supply, 16 and; 17 (4 ) An inspection by the NRC or other 18 responsible organization of the Vernon Hydroelectric 19 Station dam and switchyard.
20 On June 21, 2010, the PRB met and 21 considered the petitioner's request for the NRC to 22 immediately order the shutdown of the Vermont Yankee 23 Nuclear Power Station. The PRB did not identify any 24 immediate safety concerns. Therefore, the PRB denied 25 the request for immediate shutdown. Mr. Mulligan was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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11 1 informed of the PRB's decision on June 25th.
2 On June 29th, a teleconference was held 3 wi th you, the Petitioner, and the PRB in which you 4 provided further explanation and support for your 5 petition. A transcript of that phone call has been 6 provided to you and is publicly available in ADAMS.
7 On July 13 th, the PRB met internally to 8 discuss your petition concerning the adequacy of the 9 Vernon Tie to the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station 10 and make its initial recommendation in accordance 11 with Management Directive 8.11. The initial 12 recommendation of the PRB is that the issues raised in 13 your peti tion have already been reviewed, evaluated 14 and resolved by the NRC. Therefore, your petition 15 meets the criteria for rejection.
16 In summary, the PRB concluded that the NRC 17 staff has extensively reviewed the power supply 18 provided by the Vernon Hydroelectric Station and the 19 reliance placed on this power supply by the Vermont 20 Yankee facility. During the Station Blackout review 21 of Vermont Yankee, the staff concluded that the Vernon 22 Hydroelectric Station power station supply provides an 23 acceptable al terna te AC power source. In addition, 24 the Vernon Hydroelectric Station switchyard was 25 reviewed, inspected and found acceptable in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
12 1 staff's Safety Evaluation dated March 30. 2007, 2 supporting license renewal for Vermont Yankee.
3 By email dated July 23, 2010, you were 4 informed of the PRB's initial recommendation and 5 provided a detailed discussion that included the basis 6 for our findings.
7 On July 30, 2010, you requested a second 8 opportuni ty to address the PRB for the purpose of 9 providing addi tional supporting information for your 1 petition.
11 Following today's discussion, the PRB will 12 meet internally to discuss the additional information 13 provided today and make its final recommendation in 14 accordance with Management Directive 8.11 15 As a reminder for the phone participants, 16 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as 17 this will help in the preparation of the meeting 18 transcript that will be made publicly available.
19 Thank you.
20 And at this point, Mr. Mulligan, I'd like 21 to turn it over to you. And you have approximately 35 22 minutes, as Mr. Pickett previously informed you.
23 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Thank you, sir.
24 I'd just like to say, I'm self aware of 25 how fortunate I am to be a citizen of the United NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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13 1 States. Because, you know, essentially the 2 Constitution gives us the ideals for this type of 3 thing. And I just -- you know, I feel very fortunate 4 to be a ci ti zen of the United States and be able to 5 talk to you guys, really, when it gets down to it.
6 Basically I attest that all of what was 7 talked about as far as the petition, you didn't -- the 8 NRC didn't talk -- the NRC and Entergy didn't talk 9 about rusting conditions of the electric towers. They 10 didn t I do a detailed inspection. I don t I know what 11 codes.
12 I mean, this whole is -- there -- there's 13 a lack of information. You know, you go into this 14 thing and you kind of want the information, you want 15 to get your ducks in order and everything. But when 16 you really get down it, very little information is 17 provided for a petitioner to-- to be able to fight 18 back you guys according to your rules and stuff.
19 And so, the SER and I suspect Entergy, 20 really hasn't I haven't found any place in here 21 that they talked about the rusting towers. This is 22 what happened with the rusting towers, this is the 23 condition of the rusting towers and explained it 24 thoroughly in engineering terms. All you guys are 25 engineers, you know what I'm talking about.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005*3701 www.nealrgross.com
14 1 And then made an open evaluation of 2 this isn't necessarily about is inoperable. This is 3 the question is essentially is licensing 4 relicensing adequate, is it thorough? What's missing 5 in this thing, and stuff like that.
6 And what was missing is an evaluation of 7 what the rust -- rusting towers mean. And if you guys 8 were competent, you would have covered that. You would 9 have known how to protect yourselves and Entergy. You 1 would have covered it thoroughly, exposed everything 11 and then I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, and 12 stuff like that.
13 I can't find anything in the written trail 14 here of anybody discussing the rusty towers, or -- and 15 that, of course, questions, you know.
16 Is that switchyard going to be taken care 17 of appropriately for the next 20 years of relicensing?
18 So essentially, maybe this isn't 19 necessarily all about whether the running dam is 20 adequate for Vermont Yankee. This is a kind of 21 language thing, you know. Help in communication type 22 of thing.
23 Is the Agency and Entergy capable of 24 communicating, identifying problems and solving them, 25 and stuff like that? It's a disease with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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15 1 bureaucracy more that concerns me. The sympt oms are 2 the swi tchyard. The disease is, essentially, the 3 twisted language that's being used here. And, you 4 know, and you don't have any idea of the quali ty 5 behind a lot of these terms, and stuff like that. You 6 don't have any I can't see it in the documents.
7 It's an issue with the way you document everything, or 8 don't document everything, or the rules of the 9 documenting -- and documenting stuff. And so I don't 10 have -- as an outsider, I don't have the information.
11 I really don't have the information, very much 12 information. Just bits and piece of stuff like that.
13 And so, I mean that's essentially where 14 the big problem is: Language, the abili ty of 15 everybody to talk and communicate, and the essence to 16 know that there's a quality behind this stuff instead 17 of all this -- you know, an institutional failure like 18 we've seen in the Gulf of Mexico, and all this sort of 19 stuff, it's about language. It's about the garbage 20 dumb of language and communication.
21 Essentially, it's like throwing your divan 22 in -- you know, you have an old piece of furniture, a 23 divan. You throw it in the garbage -- the garbage 24 dump. Then you go back later on and you're trying -
25 you know, you go back, you look for that divan. And NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLA.ND AVE" NoW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D,C, 20005-3701 www,nealrgross,com
16 1 all you find is pieces of the arms and the legs, and 2 they're all disconnected and fragmentary, and you 3 can't make heads or tails. You can t I make heads or 4 tails really what the components are, and stuff.
5 And so this is what I'm talking about with 6 language and stuff.
7 I wish see, I'm on a different phone.
8 I d like to reference the petition that talked about I
9 NSAC, N-S-A-C 108. NSAC. That's derived from the 1 Electric Power Research Institute, and stuff. And 11 basically the peti tion referenced that as a standard 12 for diesel generators, and stuff.
13 And, you know, I wish I had -- I wish -- I 14 wanted I don't have my computer and I wanted to 1 quote what the Petition Board said about the 95 16 percent or higher reliability of the diesel 17 generators. But I don't have that. I'm not -- I 18 don't have access to my computer anymore.
19 But basically, the petition said that it 20 was referenced the 95 percent was referenced by 21 EPRI and NSAC-108.
22 You know, you start going through NSAC-108 23 or NSAC-108, you start going through it the only quote 24 it says about 95 percentibility, and it's a quote here 2 "Generally industry and the NRC like independent EDG NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 reliabilities to be 95 percent or higher."
2 So, you know, the way the petition quoted 3 it to me was the 95 percent standard comes from EPRI.
4 And then, you know, you gave me the reference number
- the reference number. And I looked it up. And Doug 6 gave me a copy, and stuff. But then it really -- it 7 doesn't really identify is a standard.
8 You know, it's just this circular kind of 9 logic business. So, like I said, I mean the only 10 thing that referenced 95 percent was what I just 11 quoted, and stuff. And it really doesn't identify.
12 This is EPRI this this should be 13 EPRI standard that emergency diesel generator 14 reliability should be greater than 95 percent 15 reliable, and stuff like that.
16 You guys are all engineers and you know, 17 I'm going to talk about the grid out outside 18 Vermont Yankee. I mean, you know basically -- I mean, 19 I was there when we lost a grid, and stuff. So -- and.
20 -- and all we had were diesel generators. So, you 21 know, it happens. And basically, you know, the grid 22 normally stays energized 100 percent 100 percent 23 reliability. You could essentially say that, and 24 stuff like that. But that that's not enough.
25 We know that in the past that we r ve had NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE" NW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D,C, 20005-3701 www.nealrqross.com
18 1 troubles with the grid. So we don t I depend we 2 don't know that that is a high enough quality for us 3 for electricity for a nuclear power plant. So that' s 4 why we have the diesel generators and to power up all 5 your electricity and stuff like that.
6 So you want a higher quality of 7 electricity of electrici ty. And so how you test 8 it? You test it through the plant's two-way system.
9 You just test you know, you test it once a month, 1 or whatever you guys do now. And it runs for an hour, 11 or sometimes you do it for I mean, that show I
12 there's an assurance of high quality power to an 13 electric station is I mean, that's the gold 14 standard. It's not -- it's not that the grid is -
15 the grid is energized, although that is nice -- that 16 is really nice to have. Everyone knows that, that we 17 don't want -- we want to use a diesel generator; we 18 want to use the grid. But we know that the grid is 19 is not adequate, and stuff like that. So then we flip 20 to the -- we use the diesel generators in case of -
21 in an emergency and stuff.
22 And so, I mean -- so, the wording that you 23 gave me with the petition basically says -- the way 24 the way the wording is, you frame it' s it's 95 25 percent reliability because the grid is because NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 that line is energized more than 95 percent of the 2 time, and stuff like that. And, you know, it isn't 3 the same. It is -- you know, you kind of say, well 4 the way you word it, it's not clear. The way you word 5 it is, it's equivalent to a diesel generator, but it's 6 really not even close to being as reliable as a diesel 7 generator.
8 And, you know, this garbage dump -- this 9 garbage dump of words and language really bothers me, 1 and stuff. And this kind of circular stuff, and 11 you're referencing an EPRI document and then you start 12 looking into -- you know, more looking in the dump 13 trying to figure out what's going on, and stuff. And 14 getting bits and pieces of information, and stuff like 15 that. And the EPRI document doesn't even really 16 reference the quality of diesel generators. It 17 doesn't it's not a reference. It doesn't 18 specifically state this is a reference.
19 We EPRI would like you to have -- in 20 that document, that document that was referenced to 21 me, we would like to have all plants have greater than 22 95 percent reliabili ty of the diesel generators, you 23 know.
24 You know, I mean, but then you're kind of 25 saying that's what you're kind of -- you're kind of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 inferring that's what the reliabili ty of the Vernon 2 Tie is, and stuff like that. And we don't -- you know, 3 it's not the same thing as it's not the same 4 standard as what we use for diesel generators. It's 5 - it's kind of deceptive.
6 And -- and -- you know, you got an -- it's 7 like I've talked before. You've got an incidence on 8 one side and then on the other side you've got five or 9 six codes or rules and you throw them up in the air.
10 None of them really fit. And then what falls back down 11 to the earth, you pick up five or six of these pieces 12 of the codes and stuff, and and you come out 13 authoritative -- authoritatively talking that the code 14 says that we're allowed to use -- we're allowed to use 15 the Tie, it's equivalent.
16 I know that if I was to run around with my 17 photograph and said "Okay, that Vermont Yankee is 18 we're -- we're in dire emergency and we want to use 19 and want to use the Vernon Tie, we want to use the 20 Vernon Dam and its offshoots. We want to use that for 21 emergency power." And if I showed them that picture, 22 you know 95 percent of the people in my communi ty 23 would say "Oh, no. That s not right. You can't use."
I 24 You know, they would -- they would tell you that's not 25 adequate. They would tell you that's an abomination, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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21 1 depending upon that grid, the visual effects.
2 I think that's -- you know, you got this 3 goggledygook of technical stuff and it doesn't make 4 sense.
5 And I think the impression of people 6 looking at the grid and saying what you -- I mean, 7 looking at the Tie or looking at the dam -- excuse me.
8 I think, you know that that impression that you 9 want in a dire emergency and you re going to depend I 10 upon that swi tchyard to power up Vermont Yankee and 11 prevent a core melt, I think if you showed them, if 12 you said that "Do you want to depend on this -- the 13 switchyard, " I think 95 percent of the people would 14 say the NRC's nuts.
15 Having overly complex and numerous sets of 16 codes and rules is worse than having no codes and 17 rules at all, you know. That's what I think. I think 18 you can pick up these bits and fragments and pieces of 19 these codes, and nobody understands them. And I don't 20 even think the Agency half the time really understands 21 them the way they talk and stuff.
22 And you open start opening up the 23 curtains, you know you start walking past the Vernon 24 Swi tchyard and you say "How about this rust here?"
25 "Oh, they had a relicensing." I wonder what I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
22 1 wonder how I wonder how that's si tuated in the 2 relicensing documents and stuff. And then you go in 3 there, and nothing's even mentioned about it. And 4 then you start then you go through a petition 5 process and they -- they -- they -- they reference 6 this NSAC-108 business and you start looking into 7 that. And, you know, fragments of information, that's 8 all. It's no clear-cut -- no clear-cut -- at least 9 what I can see, reference to a reliability rate, and 10 stuff.
11 And, you know the reliability rate of 12 diesel generators across the board, you know it's been 13 noted through all the years that everybody plays games 14 with figuring out, you know, identifying whether it's 15 a real failure or not a failure. I mean games 16 everybody games that, the diesel generator 17 reliabilities things, you know, to make it -- want to 18 make it look better, and stuff.
19 You know, I -- so that's so that's -- I 20 wish I had you know, Mr. Pickett, I wanted to read 21 that email I sent you into the record today, but I 22 don't have my computer next to me. And, you know, I 23 don't know if you could read it into the record for 24 me, because I don't have it because of my phone 25 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: Doug Pickett here.
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23 1 We have the email you sent to us and the 2 write-up in it. And we will include that as a 3 supplement to your peti tion, and we'll put it in 4 ADAMS.
5 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Okay. I'm just 6 trying to think of anything I want to say -- anything 7 else I want to say. I think I pretty well much 8 covered it.
9 Oh. And I made I made a spelling 10 mistake. The lessons from Forsmark in my letter to 11 you initially about the petition. And that's F-O-R-S 12 M-A-R-K. That's the lessons from Forsmark electrical 13 event. That's an NRC document. And I just wanted to 14 correct the spelling in that.
15 would that letter is that letter going 16 to be entered into ADAMS?
17 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: Are you talking 18 about your email from this morning?
19 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: The email I sent 2 you, I don't know, a week ago, two weeks ago, or 21 whatever, in response to the 22 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: Oh, yes. That's in 23 ADAMS. And we're making it publicly available. 'I'ha t; 24 was at your request.
25 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Yes, I think - I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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24 1 think that I -- I'm done.
2 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. At this time, does 3 the staff here at Headquarters have any questions for 4 Mr. Mulligan? Okay.
5 Seeing none, does the license have any 6 questions?
7 MR. DeVINCENTIS: Entergy has no questions 8 or comments.
9 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. Does the Region 10 have any questions?
11 BOARD MEMBER DODSON: The Region has no 12 questions or comments.
13 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. I believe there 14 were no members of the public identified.
15 So, Mr. Mulligan, I want to thank you for 16 taking time to provide the NRC staff wi th clarifying 17 information on the petition you've submitted.
18 Before we close, does the Court Reporter 19 need any additional information for the meeting 20 transcript? We did agree to provide you with the 21 names of the individuals here. Is there anything else 22 that's needed?
23 COURT REPORTER: No. And Mr. Pickett can 24 either email me or he can call me. Does he want my 25 number right now.
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25 1 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: That would be 2 helpful.
3 COURT REPORTER: It's 202-234-4433 ask for 4 John. I'm the only one in the office, the only one 5 named John.
6 BOARD MEMBER PICKETT: Okay. Thank you.
7 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: And I'm want -- and 8 I want to thank you for this opportunity to speak 9 again.
10 CHAIRMAN QUAY: You're welcome.
1 And I guess with that, I guess this 12 meeting's concluded. And thank you again, Mr.
13 Mulligan.
14 (Whereupon, at 10:32 a.m. the meeting was 15 concluded.)
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