ML11263A261
| ML11263A261 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee File:NorthStar Vermont Yankee icon.png |
| Issue date: | 09/14/2011 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 2.206, NRC-1142 | |
| Download: ML11263A261 (34) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board RE Vermont Yankee Docket Number: n/a Location: teleconference Date: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-1 142 Pages 1-32 K.7-GC 1NAL NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 +++++
4 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 5 CONFERENCE CALL 6 RE 7 VERMONT YANKEE 8 . . . . .
9 WEDNESDAY 10 SEPTEMBER 14, 2011 11 12 The conference call was held, Patrick 13 Hiland, Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, 14 presiding.
15 16 PETITIONER: MICHAEL MULLIGAN 17 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
18 PATRICK HILAND, Chairman, Petition Review 19 Board 20 JAMES KIM, Petition Manager for 2.206 Petition 21 NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF:
22 TANYA MENSAH, Petition Coordinator, NRR 23 LUDWIG KERN, NRR 24 STEVE JONES, NRR 25 NAGESWARA KARIPINENI, NRR NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 NRC REGIONAL STAFF:
2 THOMAS SETZER, Region 1 3 ALSO PRESENT:
4 JIM DEVINCENTIS, Entergy Nuclear Operations 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE 3
4 I. Opening Comments by James Kim, 4 5 Petition Manager 6 II. Opening Comments by Chairman Hiland 7 7 III. Presentation by Michael Mulligan, 12 8 Petitioner 9 IV. Question/Answer Session 24 10 V. Closing Comments by Chairman Hiland 31 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (2:02 p.m.)
3 MR. KIM: Okay. Good afternoon. I would 4 like to thank everybody for attending this meeting.
5 My name is James Kim, and I am the Vermont 6 Yankee Project Manager.
7 We are here today to allow the Petitioner, 8 Mr. Michael Mulligan, to address the Petition Review 9 Board regarding 2.206 petition dated August 26, 2011.
10 I am the Petition Manager for the 11 petition. The Petition Review Board Chairman is 12 Patrick Hiland.
13 As a part of the Petition Review Board's 14 review of this petition, Mr. Michael Mulligan has 15 requested this opportunity to address the PRB. This 16 meeting is scheduled from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. The 17 meeting is being recorded by the NRC Operations Center 18 and will be transcribed by a Court Reporter. The 19 transcript will become a supplement to the petition.
20 The transcript will also be made publicly available.
21 I would like to open this meeting with 22 introductions. As we go around the room, please be 23 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and 24 the office that you work for within the NRC, for the 25 record.
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5 1 I'll start off. This is James Kim. I'm 2 a Project Manager for the Division of Operating 3 Reactor Licensing in NRR.
4 MR. KARIPINENI: I am Rah Karipineni from 5 the Containment and Ventilation Branch in the NRR.
6 MR. JONES: Steve Jones. I'm a Senior 7 Reactor Systems Engineer in the Balance of Plant 8 Branch of the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
9 MR. KERN: Ludwig Kern, Division of 10 Reactor Licensing in NRR.
11 CHAIRMAN HILAND: I'm Pat Hiland. My 12 normal job in the NRC is I'm the Director of the 13 Division of Engineering within the Office of Nuclear 14 Reactor Regulation. And for the purposes of today's 15 Petition Review Board, I am the Chairman.
16 MR. KIM: Thank you. At this time, are 17 there any NRC participants from the headquarters on 18 the line?
19 MS. MENSAH: This is Tanya Mensah. I work 20 in the Division of Policy and Rulemaking, NRR, and I 21 am the 2.206 coordinator.
22 MR. KIM: Are there any NRC participants 23 from the regional office on the phone?
24 MR. SETZER: Yes, hi. This is Tom Setzer.
25 I'm a Senior Project Engineer in Region I for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 Division of Reactor Projects.
2 MR. KIM: Thank you. Are there any 3 representatives for the licensee on the line?
4 MR. DEVINCENTIS: Yes. This is Jim 5 Devincentis, Entergy Nuclear Operations.
6 MR. KIM: Mr. Mulligan, would you please 7 introduce yourself for the record?
8 MR. MULLIGAN: I'm Mike Mulligan, and I'm 9 a whistleblower, and I live in Hinsdale, just across 10 the river from the plant.
11 MR. KIM: Thank you. Are there any 12 others, such as members of the public, on the phone?
13 (No response.)
14 It is not required for members of the 15 public to introduce themselves for this call.
16 However, if there are any members of the public on the 17 phone that wish to do so at this time, please state 18 your name for the record.
19 (No response.)
20 Hearing none, I would like to emphasize 21 that we each need to speak clearly and loudly to make 22 sure that the Court Reporter can accurately transcribe 23 this meeting. If you do have something that you would 24 like to say, please first state your name for the 25 record.
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7 1 For those dialing into the meeting, please 2 remember to mute your phones to minimize any 3 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 4 a mute button, this can be done by pressing the keys 5 star six. To unmute, press the star six keys again.
6 Thank you.
7 At this time, I'll turn it over to the PRB 8 Chairman, Patrick Hiland.
9 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Good afternoon. This is 10 Patrick Hiland. Welcome to this meeting regarding the 11 2.206 petition submitted by Mr. Mulligan. I would 12 like, first, to share some background on our process.
13 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 14 Federal Regulations describes the petition process:
15 the primary mechanism for the public to request 16 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
17 This process permits anyone to petition the NRC to 18 take enforcement-type action related to NRC licensees 19 or licensed activities.
20 Depending on the results of its 21 evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, or revoke an 22 NRC-issued license, or take any other appropriate 23 enforcement action to resolve a problem. The NRC 24 staff's guidance for the disposition of 2.206 25 petitions requests is in Management Directive 8.11, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 which is publicly available.
2 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 3 the Petitioner an opportunity to provide any 4 additional explanation or support for the petition 5 before the Petition Review Board's initial 6 consideration and recommendation. This meeting is not 7 a hearing, nor is it an opportunity for the Petitioner 8 to question or examine the PRB on the merits of the 9 issues presented in the petition request.
10 No decisions regarding the merits of this 11 petition will be made at this meeting. Following this 12 meeting, the Petition Review Board will conduct its 13 internal deliberations. The outcome of this internal 14 meeting will be discussed with the Petitioner.
15 The Petition Review Board typically 16 consists of a Chairman, usually a manager at the 17 Senior Executive Service level at the NRC. And, of 18 course, I am at the Senior Executive Service level 19 within the NRC, and, as a Petition Manager, Mr. Kim, 20 and a PRB coordinator. Other members of the Board are 21 determined by the NRC staff based on the content of 22 the information in the petition request.
23 At this time, I would like to introduce 24 the Board. As we have heard, Mr. James Kim is the 25 Petition Manager for the Board. Tanya Mensah is the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 office's PRB coordinator. Other staff that you heard 2 introduce themselves, Rah Karipineni represents the 3 Containment and Ventilation Branch, Steve Jones is 4 from the Balance of Plant Branch, Tom Setzer is from 5 Region I, Division of Reactor Projects.
6 As described in our process, the NRC staff 7 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 8 understand the Petitioner's presentation and to reach 9 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 10 Petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 11 process.
12 Now I would like to summarize the scope of 13 the petition under consideration and the NRC 14 activities to date. On August 26, 2011, Mr. Mulligan 15 submitted to the NRC a petition under 2.206 in which 16 you expressed a concern regarding a steam or vapor 17 plume coming from the Vermont Yankee turbine building 18 roof.
19 In this petition request, Mr. Mulligan --
20 and there is 10 items I will now mention -- one, 21 requested an immediate report on the basic function of 22 the vapor extractor, an immediate radiological reading 23 of the discharge and listing of all the nuclides; two, 24 requested the content of vapor and asked whether 25 reactor steam and water get released out of the vent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 on top of the turbine building roof; three, asked 2 whether all lube oil fumes are disclosed in any 3 government reports, and how much lube oil gets 4 discharged to the environment; four, asked where the 5 rainwater collected on the roof goes to and whether it 6 is monitored; five, asked the nature of contamination 7 on top of the roof; six, asked whether the radiation 8 from vent enters Hinsdale, New Hampshire, and whether 9 it is disclosed; asked how much turbine building air 10 gets sucked into the lube oil return and whether there 11 is turbine steam or condensed water that gets sucked 12 through the system; eight, requested an estimation of 13 radiological discharge and any and all of Vermont 14 Yankee's past fuel failures; nine, requested the 15 radiological content of the turbine loop system; ten, 16 asked whether the roof drains to the plant sewers and 17 to the river out fall north of the intake, and whether 18 there is lube oil and radiation in the sewers.
19 In addition, Mr. Mulligan requested the 20 previously submitted Palisades 2.206 requested actions 21 to be optimized for this Vermont Yankee 2.206 22 petition. And, again, there is 10 items that I will 23 relate.
24 One, requested Vermont Yankee Nuclear 25 Power Plant and all Entergy Nuclear power plants to be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 immediately shutdown; two, requested top Vermont 2 Yankee management staff be fired and replaced before 3 startup; three, requested Entergy's corporate nuclear 4 senior staff be fired and replaced before the restart 5 of the plants; four, requested two additional 6 inspectors to be assigned to Vermont Yankee plant, and 7 to all the rest of the troubled Entergy Nuclear 8 plants; five, requested the formation of a local 9 public oversight panel around every plant; six, 10 requested an emergency NRC senior official oversight 11 panel with the aims of reforming the ROP; seven, 12 requested a national NRC oversight panel of outsiders 13 to oversee and report on the agency's activities.
14 There should be a mixture of professional, academic 15 people and capable laypeople.
16 Eight, stated that there is some heavy-17 duty and exceedingly numerous findings of problems 18 with Entergy plants during this inspection reporting 19 cycle. Do an analysis of why this is occurring.
20 Nine, requested an evaluation if NRC Region I has 21 enough personnel and resources; ten, requested 22 President Obama to fire all of the NRC Commissioners.
23 Now I'll discuss the NRC activities to 24 date. On September 8, 2011, the Petition Manager 25 contacted Mr. Mulligan to discuss the 10 CFR 2.206 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 process and to offer you an initial opportunity to 2 address the Petition Review Board prior to its 3 internal meeting to make the initial recommendation.
4 You requested an opportunity to address the PRB by 5 telephone, which is the purpose of today's call.
6 As a reminder for the phone participants, 7 please identify yourself if you make any remarks,. as 8 this will help us in preparation of the meeting 9 transcript that will be made publicly available.
10 Thank you.
11 Mr. Mulligan, I will turn the meeting over 12 to you now to allow you to provide any information you 13 believe the PRB should consider as part of this 14 petition.
15 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, you know, I know the 16 NRC is in the process of repairing itself when they 17 redo the 2.206 process, you know? Basically, I always 18 -- you know, I always go to -- always have an issue 19 with getting information. You tell me that this is a 20 -- partially a legal thing and -- but I have no 21 ability to seek transparency and information and stuff 22 like that, all these types of things. I really can't 23 go into these meetings with any new information, 24 because I don't have access to the plant or the 25 information and stuff.
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13 1 And so, basically, the 2.206 is flawed.
2 I would say we would have a lot better industry if 3 there would be some ability to gather the information, 4 and I can attack what I think is wrong with the NRC 5 and Vermont Yankee. I think we would have a lot less 6 problems with the industry if people could do this 7 type of stuff and vaccinate everybody from a lot of 8 these problems.
9 I made an attempt to communicate with Mr.
10 Setzer, basically asking, you know, a bunch of 11 foundational questions. What is the net 12 radioactivity, what is the net steam, and type of 13 thing, and, you know, I wanted some information on the 14 attributes of the steam release or vapor release. And 15 there's just nothing but silence and stuff.
16 I don't understand why it's like that, 17 that once you open up a 2.206 process everybody clams 18 up and nobody says anything. I think it's unfair to 19 the community. I think it's unconstitutional. It's 20 not the way we do business as far as being open to 21 people in the surrounding communities who could be 22 exposed to contamination. And we are a very small --
23 we have a very small footprint within the emergency 24 evacuation zones, and, you know, I think we should be 25 treated differently because of it.
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14 1 So I am saddened that I couldn't have any 2 -- couldn't get any information about what is in that 3 steam to present to you.
4 We do know with the vapor extractor it's 5 an obscure system that not very many -- well, until 6 recently, not -- you know, all the oldsters have been 7 retiring off, and they really haven't been keeping up 8 to the function of the system. And many plants have 9 -- including Vermont Yankee have gotten into trouble 10 with thinking they could secure the vapor extractors, 11 because basically they provide a function with drawing 12 lube oil back into the lube oil tank.
13 A lot of plants, including Vermont Yankee, 14 has gotten into trouble with thinking they can shut 15 off those vapor extractor stands, and Vermont Yankee 16 recently added another fan. I don't know if they --
17 if it's standby or whether two of them are operating 18 at one time, or what have you.
19 But, as I said, it has been an obscure 20 system until a lot of plants have -- well, a few 21 plants have, including Vermont Yankee, have spilled a 22 lot of lube oil and created fires and smoldering oil 23 in their turbine insulation, and generally frightened 24 the whole plant with the mist of oil in these plants, 25 because they weren't keeping up to the details of how NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 their systems are -- these systems were working.
2 You know, as far as the big picture with 3 this thing, especially an example with FitzPatrick 4 recently, and Grand Gulf, you know, I have talked 5 about this in past petitions and stuff like that.
6 You know, it's really not fair what is 7 going on here. You have a violation in the distant 8 past. You know, it might be a year off, or it might 9 be two years in the past. You guys fiddle around 10 reporting very little on it, and stuff like that. You 11 wait for a year or two years, and then you make a 12 report on it.
13 And then, you might have to have another 14 year of this ADR process and stuff like that, and it's 15 not right that you can't immediately report an 16 incident, say this is what happens, this is what 17 happened, to the best of our ability to describe it, 18 and stuff like that. That's the first report that 19 should come out.
20 Then, the second report should come out 21 later on. I don't know, it's not fair that there is 22 such a delay in all of this -- these reportings, you 23 know. We don't have to do it for 60 days or we don't 24 have to do it for six months. We have to wait until 25 the licensee gets the root cause completed, and they NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 get to set what the timeframe is of the report is, 2 basically, by delaying the root cause report and stuff 3 like that.
4 It's just not fair, it's not America, that 5 this -- that all of these things are not immediately 6 reported, corrected at the soonest opportunity, people 7 have the opportunity to provide feedback, and they 8 force you all to be better people, and stuff like 9 that. It's not -- this is part of -- I think this is 10 part of the big picture of what's wrong with the 11 nuclear industry in that things aren't disclosed 12 quickly.
13 They are not taken care -- punishment 14 isn't meted out quickly, and corrective actions aren't 15 done in a timely manner, and stuff like that. I think 16 it's a big problem with the nuclear industry as a 17 whole.
18 We know that Palisades, where they had --
19 where I've had a series of 2.206s, you know -- you 20 know, I'd like to know the difference between a 21 confirm -- confer -- confirm -- a -- let me see if I 22 can get that word right. Confirmatory -- confer --
23 confirmation order or --
24 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Confirmatory order?
25 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes. Order and a -- order NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 and action? There's two of them with that -- say that 2 again.
3 CHAIRMAN HILAND: This is Pat Hiland 4 speaking. I was trying to help the pronunciation. I 5 believe you're referring to, Mr. Mulligan, a 6 confirmatory order?
7 MR. MULLIGAN: Confirmatory order, yes.
8 And a confirmation action level? What's the two --
9 what's the difference?
10 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Confirmatory action 11 letter.
12 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes.
13 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Yes, two methods that we 14 communicate.
15 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, anyway, it's -- you 16 know, Palisades -- you know, it's interesting.
17 Palisades hasn't had any of these types of things 18 until Entergy began opening it -- began operating it.
19 Back in 2006, or '05, or what have you, they had a 20 series of these things.
21 They had one about giving incomplete and 22 inaccurate information over a security event. They 23 had issues with their fuel pool, fuel assemblies, 24 their not owning up to stuck fuel bundles, and not 25 discovering at the earliest opportunity what was the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 problem with that. And they had -- you know, they 2 didn't correct it at the soonest opportunity.
3 And, basically, they had an issue with 4 employee protection and stuff like that, you know, and 5 then you go back -- you go to this recent thing with 6 Grand Gulf. They have another issue with employee 7 protection and potentially employee intimidation and 8 stuff.
9 I have a criticism with the NRC that most 10 of the stuff with that Grand Gulf business they talked 11 -- they were patting Entergy on the back, and they did 12 very little. They mentioned the poor guy that stuck 13 his neck out very little, you know, almost like he is 14 -- you know, well, he is inconsequential to the whole 15 deal, instead of celebrating him and make like I 16 talked about, you know, maybe brought him in and gave 17 him a letter of commendation or whatever, or send a 18 signal out that that's the kind of people we want in 19 the industry nowadays. We want people to speak out.
20 If they can't speak out, then they go to the next 21 higher level.
22 I was disappointed with that whole 23 disclosure about the Grand Gulf situation. Like I 24 said, you know, the problem is these things rattle 25 around. I talked about this in a past 2.206 -- the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 magic button we can push, and we don't -- there isn't 2 events -- big events happening that are kept secretly 3 from the public for years until they -- you know, they 4 get the corrective actions all set up. And it takes 5 the NRC forever to investigate these things, for 6 years, for three or four years at a time, and stuff 7 like that. It's just unacceptable that we have this 8 kind of stuff in the industry today.
9 The ADR process basically is -- the 10 outcome is that a lot of stuff is hidden behind a 11 curtain that you never can see. And, again, you know, 12 the way we really protect the industry is we give the 13 information to the public, and then there is a 14 feedback cycle that goes on with that.
15 The public lets the NRC know what they 16 want and what quality of safety they need and want and 17 stuff like that, and then the NRC meets the needs of 18 the public and stuff. You don't wait around until a 19 big accident and then you do it, you know, type of 20 thing. And you don't hide things until a big accident 21 happens. Then, we find out retroactively that 22 everybody knew about the accident was coming and stuff 23 like that. It's just -- it's unacceptable what is 24 going on here.
25 And like I said, back in 1992, as far as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 with that turbine building roof, I was the first one 2 to disclose that there was radiation going into the 3 Connecticut River. I did that when I was an employee, 4 and I leaked that to the media.
5 And I made a complaint about, you know, 6 the turbine building, stands on the roof, you know, 7 and who -- how do we know what contamination and 8 radioactivity goes out the turbine building when those 9 fans are open and running, which they were most of the 10 times and stuff like that.
11 And I believe we -- they put in detectors 12 because of me. And so anyways, here we are sitting 13 here trying to figure out what that steam plume is for 14 the -- coming out of the reactor building. You know, 15 like I said in my petition, how is the roof going? I 16 mean, is there contamination up there? Is there lube 17 oil? Is this still condensing out on the property 18 causing some of our problems and stuff like that?
19 How come I need a process, you know, this 20 2.206 process, where I can get -- I get my words at 21 least written down and on NRC documents. And if 22 something bad happens or something shows up in the 23 future, at least I can say, you know, I did my job.
24 I got it on paper. And I was right or wrong. I'll 25 stand by what my assertions are and stuff.
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21 1 And so I know from -- as an employee there 2 that, you know, what is in that steam. You know, I 3 know the bearings have probably been -- I was 4 underneath it. I know it's usually a high radiation 5 level when the plant is running and stuff, and I know 6 that there is steam and leaks of an assorted nature, 7 and, you know, that pump is like a -- the stands are 8 like a vacuum, it sucks in, you know, it sucks in all 9 -- a turbine building atmosphere, into the lube oil 10 tank. We don't know if it concentrates, you know, 11 there is a concentrate business.
12 We talked -- they have talked about some 13 hydrogen being entrained in the oil. I'm not certain 14 whether the hydrogen is from the generator or is it 15 from the -- is it tritium, and that type of thing.
16 So, you know, there's a lot of unknowns on this 17 obscure system that just popped up.
18 (Pause.)
19 I'm just looking to make sure that I've 20 got my -- all my issues taken care of. Oh. So why 21 couldn't that -- why couldn't that vent line -- why 22 couldn't -- you know, we know that the ventilation --
23 why couldn't that go into the ventilation system? And 24 they pumped that outside, you know, at some point near 25 the discharge -- they would have two vent paths. They NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 have an in -- inlet fans and outlet fans. I forget 2 how that goes. Fans that pump air into the building 3 and fans that pump air out of the building.
4 And they basically go out the stack. You 5 know, why couldn't you put them -- discharge that --
6 have that discharge out, to go out with the 7 ventilation? We know that there is radiation 8 detectors that continuously -- and recorded monitoring 9 would be monitoring that stuff. As far as I know now, 10 that stuff isn't being -- the radiation out there at 11 the turbine building isn't being continuously 12 monitored.
13 You know, that's a concept of -- you know, 14 I don't know about the rules and regulations, but the 15 general safety concept and public welfare concept is 16 you don't discharge anything without knowing --
17 without, one, knowing that you are discharging it; 18 number two, without it being under the legal limits; 19 number three, that it's measured and recordable.
20 I mean, that's a basic principle of 21 nuclear power type of thing, and I don't see -- you 22 know, as far as the information I have, I don't see 23 that there is any of that going on at Vermont Yankee 24 or any other site in the nation.
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23 1 the environmental -- I mean, I don't know what the 2 radiation amounts -- amounts and levels of that 3 radiation. I believe seeing that plume of steam is --
4 over a year's time of operation is a significant 5 amount of water and vapor and lube oil. I suspect it 6 is vapor or steam or something like that.
7 It's a significant amount of atmosphere 8 leaving the turbine building. Basically, I think it's 9 an enormous amount from a -- you know, it looks like 10 a small steam, but from day to day to year to year, 11 over decades, that is a lot of emissions from Vermont 12 Yankee. And it's surprising that it is not accounted 13 for.
14 I did lookups on the vapor extractor. And 15 like I said, it's an obscure system, and it's very 16 infrequently mentioned in any of the inspection 17 reports. I see no inspections from the NRC on the 18 vapor extractor. I know it's a secondary system, but 19 it does emit radiation to the outside. There is some 20 level of radiation, there is no question about it, 21 that goes to the outside. And that should be a 22 concern of the ROP, that everything that gets released 23 to the atmosphere is fully understood and reported on.
24 Again, I don't know the magnitude of the 25 other plants that have this kind of system, vapor NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 extractor, with the pipe directly out into the turbine 2 building. But it -- you know, in any similar 3 situation at another plant -- I can't say that right.
4 Any similar setup at another plant, you know, again, 5 you've got the possibility that radiation is escaping.
6 And we don't know at what levels and stuff.
7 It's not continuously reported, so, you 8 know, if something happens, you know, you can hold 9 people accountable if something happens. You had a 10 leak of some sort and you were releasing illegal 11 amounts of radiation, you could report it, and people 12 could be punished for it, and stuff like that. We 13 don't have that here.
14 So, you know, that's my broad system -- my 15 broad question is that a lot of environmental reports 16 are -- environmental radiological reports are 17 inaccurate, until I see evidence otherwise.
18 Again, I would like to thank everybody for 19 allowing me this opportunity to express my views.
20 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Thank you, Mr.
21 Mulligan. Before I go to my closing remarks, I would 22 like to just address a couple of the comments that I 23 heard from you, just as an exchange of information 24 between us.
25 This is Pat Hiland speaking. I'm sorry.
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25 1 You know, one thing I heard -- and I think 2 I heard it repeatedly -- was your lack of ability to 3 gain information. And I would, you know, only make 4 sure that you're aware that the licensee -- or that 5 the NRC conducts public reactor oversight program 6 meetings yearly. And they should be conducted in the 7 local area.
8 And I'll ask our representative from 9 Region I to speak up if I'm incorrect.
10 MR. SETZER: Hi. This is Tom. No, you're 11 right. We do the annual assessment meeting in that 12 area, and actually Mr. Mulligan frequently attends 13 those. He was at the last one.
14 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Well, that's 15 good. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of 16 that, and obviously you are.
17 You suggested -- I am just taking what I 18 heard -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- but you 19 suggested that information from the NRC was not 20 forthcoming, it was difficult to get, and I'm just 21 making sure that you're aware that the Freedom of 22 Information Act, that is a process that we follow and 23 we are pretty good at it.
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26 1 publicly available, that you request, we are pretty 2 good at responding to that. I won't say in days, but 3 certainly in months of time. And I think you 4 mentioned you were frustrated by some of the years 5 that you waited for some information.
6 And then, lastly, you know, some of the 7 concerns you have, if they are real safety concerns 8 that you have, on our web page we have access to our 9 allegations program. I don't know that you have 10 partaken in that before.
11 MR. MULLIGAN: They know me. They all 12 know me. Everybody knows me.
13 CHAIRMAN HILAND: I don't -- well, I don't 14 know you, so that's why I'm going through this. But 15 in the case of your looking for, you know, just 16 specific technical information, typically when I'm on 17 an ARB as a chairman, if the -- you know, if the 18 concerned person just wants technical information, I 19 will send that to the license holder and ask them to 20 respond, and typically they do.
21 And I'm not sure that -- I don't know 22 whether the licensee -- Entergy has a website specific 23 to Vermont Yankee or not, but that would -- may be 24 another source where you could gather information. I 25 don't know. I have not looked at it, but I would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 appreciate --
2 MR. MULLIGAN: Well --
3 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Go ahead.
4 MR. MULLIGAN: -- I found over the years, 5 you know, everybody talks after these things, like you 6 did, you know, and --
7 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Right.
8 MR. MULLIGAN: -- stuff, and talking about 9 all of these processes and stuff like that, that you 10 can do it and stuff like that. And, you know, I don't 11 know if I would have engaged in the processes that I 12 would have gotten more information. I don't --
13 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. I think --
14 MR. MULLIGAN: In the past, you don't --
15 nobody -- nothing gets opened up and stuff like that, 16 so you talk about processes. But when we give you 17 incidences that -- you know, I tried to -- I tried in 18 my own way to get information, and I was rebuffed and 19 stuff like that.
20 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay.
21 MR. MULLIGAN: So everybody advertises 22 that you've got a ton of processes, and everybody 23 should be happy. But when you start engaging in the 24 process, like I did with Mr. Setzer, I get nothing 25 back.
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28 1 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay.
2 MR. MULLIGAN: And stuff like that. I'm 3 sick and tired of people talking about all of these 4 processes and -- but then we really have no horsepower 5 to make sure those processes get done right. You 6 know, you advertise, but there is nothing behind the 7 advertisement.
8 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. And then, lastly, 9 though, I did hear you say you felt that -- I presume 10 you had access to the yearly environmental report, 11 which is available in our ADAMS. And in that report 12 you said there was an inaccuracy of that report?
13 MR. MULLIGAN: If they're not measuring 14 the -- if they're not measuring that stuff coming out 15 of the stack, you know, then the environmental report 16 is inaccurate, pending that there is radioactivity in 17 there.
18 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Well, I guess I'm 19 at a little bit of loss. I did go to your webpage --
20 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes.
21 CHAIRMAN HILAND: -- and I had a hard time 22 -- and maybe the picture wasn't there any longer -- I 23 tried to take a look at what this plume was that you 24 reference was coming out of the building. And 25 somebody is showing me a picture again of it.
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29 1 MR. MULLIGAN: You know, you can click on 2 that and magnify it up.
3 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Well, I'll --
4 okay. I think I see it. It's on the turbine building 5 roof about --
6 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes.
7 CHAIRMAN HILAND: -- just about maybe a 8 tenth. Let me see, one, two, three -- three columns 9 in I see a little pipe and some steam release there.
10 Is that it?
11 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, you know I'm two 12 miles away. I'm about two miles away, and I've got a 13 little camera --
14 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay.
15 MR. MULLIGAN: -- that is not 16 sophisticated and stuff like that.
17 CHAIRMAN HILAND: I just need --
18 MR. MULLIGAN: So it's a little plume.
19 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. That's fine.
20 MR. MULLIGAN: But the --
21 CHAIRMAN HILAND: I just wanted to make 22 sure that I was viewing what you were articulating, 23 what you said. It was -- there wasn't an arrow 24 pointing at it, so I was struggling. Okay. Good.
25 MR. MULLIGAN: One more thing is that --
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30 1 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Sure.
2 MR. MULLIGAN: -- you know, it confused --
3 just I've got to go through a bunch of hoops. I've 4 got to know a bunch of processes, and I can't be --
5 you know, everything has got to be done in a certain 6 way, the Freedom of Information, and stuff like that.
7 There is all sorts of processes and stuff 8 here that very few people understand, and you've got 9 to take a bunch of time. It's inconvenient for 10 somebody like me to, you know, have to know all the 11 process. It's an impediment to -- trying to 12 understand what is going on here and being involved 13 with Vermont Yankee and stuff like that.
14 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay.
15 MR. MULLIGAN: You know, you guys talked 16 about all of these processes and stuff like that, and, 17 you know, I -- you know, the Freedom of Information.
18 I'd probably have to get somebody to certify that it's 19 my signature and stuff like that, so -- that type of 20 thing.
21 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Well, hopefully, you're 22 not --
23 MR. MULLIGAN: So it's, you know, a lot of 24 processes, but it's almost inhumanely possible to get 25 the information you want, because it's so complex and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 stuff. I can't go to a guy and say -- an NRC official 2 and say, you know, "I'm tired of dealing with these 3 processes. I can't understand them all. I've got a 4 life to live outside this stuff."
5 Why can't I get a professional guy that 6 knows what he is talking about to help me go through 7 this thing? Why do I always have to be the expert and 8 stuff like -- and know how everything perfectly goes?
9 Why can't I get one guy, another human being that is 10 a good guy -- I know a lot of you guys are good guys 11 -- and just help walk me through this thing instead of 12 all just always talking about these processes, these 13 processes.
14 We're all covered. We've got all these 15 processes that nobody can understand. You know, 16 that's a general comment.
17 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Thanks.
18 I have some closing remarks now. At this 19 time, does the staff here at headquarters have any 20 questions for Mr. Mulligan, clarifying questions?
21 (No response.)
22 Before I conclude the meeting, members of 23 the public may provide comments regarding the petition 24 and ask questions about the 2.206 petition process.
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32 1 meeting is not to provide an opportunity for the 2 Petitioner or the public to question or examine the 3 PRB regarding the merits of the petition request.
4 Mr. Mulligan, thank you for taking time to 5 provide the NRC staff with clarifying information on 6 the petition you have submitted.
7 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you for -- thank you 8 for giving me this opportunity. I am very thankful 9 for this opportunity.
10 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Before we close, does 11 the Court Reporter need any additional information for 12 the meeting transcript?
13 THE COURT REPORTER: All I need is a list 14 of the names of the people who are on the call and 15 their positions. That's all.
16 MR. KIM: I'll send you the list of the 17 participants.
18 CHAIRMAN HILAND: And that was James Kim 19 who spoke.
20 Okay. Thank you, everybody. Have a good 21 day.
22 (Whereupon, at 2:41 p.m., the proceedings 23 in the foregoing matter were concluded.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of: Vermont Yankee Name of Proceeding: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition of Michael Mulligan Docket Number: n/a Location: (teleconference) were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
T- Samuel Wojack Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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